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Look, GAIL Pedrick was a lovely 
man. 

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Anyway, he was a script editor 
and we sent it to him because we

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didn't know of his existence. 
But we wrote to Frank Noor and 

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00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:15,080
Dennis Norton, and it was their 
suggestion, probably fobbing us 

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off, you know, we wouldn't get 
in there here. 

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But nevertheless, it was good 
advice. 

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00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,680
And we wrote to this GAIL 
Pedrick and his letter was 

8
00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,320
saying something like we were 
highly amused by your your 

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00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,960
sketch, but don't read the more 
that is on the surface of the 

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letter. 
We would like to like to meet 

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00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,840
you. 
So we will cock a hoop over 

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that. 
And probably we would have if 

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nothing more odd happened, we 
probably would have kept that 

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letter and memory of what could 
have happened. 

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Still got it somewhere. 
The Hello and welcome to Goon 

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Pod. 
My name is Tyler Adams and this 

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is the podcast in which we look 
at all things goon related. 

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And yet today, well, we are, we 
are going to be talking about 

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something very much goon 
related, but the focus is going 

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to be much more on arguably 2 of
the greatest comedy writing 

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teams this country's ever 
produced. 

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Ray Galton and Alan Simpson and 
my guests today have both been 

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quite prominent in terms of 
media exposure recently due to 

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some startling fines in the 
Galton Simpsons archives. 

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Gary Brennan and Richard Usher, 
Hello. 

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Hello. 
Oh, hello, Yes. 

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00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,639
Nice to speak to you again, 
Tyler. 

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Yes. 
So Richard, you and I have 

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spoken on a few occasions. 
You've, you've come on to talk 

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about, well, just talk in 
general about the goons. 

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And then you came on with Julie 
Warren and the guys who were 

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doing the the Goon Show 
recreation. 

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00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,960
Oh, yes, for, for Larry's 
centenary. 

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That's right. 
Yes, in Birmingham. 

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00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:32,960
Yes, that's. 
Right. 

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Was that two years ago? 
Yeah, 22 October 2023. 

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Blimey, Blimey. 
Flies by. 

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And you're obviously a active 
performer, yes. 

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And and yes, I'll I'll, I'll 
answer to all of the above. 

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And and Grand Poobah of the Goon
Show Preservation Society, or. 

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00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,160
I, I, I think stool is probably 
more appropriate phrase where 

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00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,840
I'm concerned. 
But yeah, no, I'm, I'm currently

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the, the, the secretary and 
acting chair. 

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So we're, we're still in search 
of a new, a new leader to, to 

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00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,920
take over from, from, from John 
Repsch, who, who did it for 

46
00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:15,440
about 17 years brilliantly. 
So yes, still, still involves 

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the gunshot preservation 
society. 

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We had some fairly recent sad 
news that that our, the man who 

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created the, the society, Mike 
Coveney, suddenly passed away 

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00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,200
fairly recently and not long 
after. 

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In fact, I think it was the next
day and one of our long, long 

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00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,760
term members, Mike Childs, also 
sadly passed away. 

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So yeah, much, much respect and 
sympathies to their to their 

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respective families. 
Yeah, very, very familiar names.

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If you if you have been reading 
the Goon Show news or the 

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newsletter of you know, many 
years ago. 

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Absolutely. 
And, and Gary, so we, you and I 

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haven't spoken. 
This is the first time we've 

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spoken, but it is a great 
pleasure. 

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And you are, how would I 
describe you, a keeper of 

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archives and research 
collections at York University. 

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Is that that's, that's right. 
Yes, yes. 

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I do like, I do like the way you
describe yourself in your Blue 

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sky bio as the begrudging second
coming of Harry Secom. 

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It's been, it has been observed 
on more than one occasion that 

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there's a more than passing 
resemblance between myself and 

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circumference. 
So yeah, I I'll take that on. 

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Which period? 
Harry though, because. 

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Oh, actually, goons Harry Pretty
Pickwick. 

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So I don't have massive 
sideburns, but there's a point 

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in everyone's life when he looks
in the mirror and you go, Oh 

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yeah, I see what they mean. 
Do you know, I still remember 

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00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:39,720
the time I went into the 
bathroom. 

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I don't know what for, Went into
the bathroom and there was this 

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00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,760
old man in there. 
And then I realized it was me 

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looking in the mirror and I was,
it was, I won't let you into my 

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00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,320
private hell. 
But Gary, you have been very 

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00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,080
instrumental in bringing 
together or trying to bring 

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00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,840
together. 
We're putting together this sort

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00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:02,520
of campaign. 
What's it called? 

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00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,040
What's it called in it? 
Marvelous. 

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00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,480
In Marvelous, Yeah. 
Paraphrasing Tony Hancock and 

83
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,680
Harold Steptoe, Yeah. 
So it's to fundraise to save the

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00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,240
archive of Ray Galton and Alan 
Simpson for the nation. 

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Really, you know, Ray and Allen,
as as influential as they are, 

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00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,920
they, they passed away again in 
quite short order in I think 

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00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,640
2017 and 2018. 
And as these things do, it takes

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00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,400
a bit of time, but they, we 
were, we were inquired of as if 

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00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,320
we'd be interested and, and 
we've been collecting archives 

90
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,720
related to popular entertainment
and media for quite some time. 

91
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,480
We'd just taken in the archive 
of Frankie Howard in 2021. 

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00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,440
And then sort of on the heels of
that, someone said, you do know 

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00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,240
that there's Ray and Allen's and
we thought, OK, let's have a 

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chat. 
And it's gone, It's gone from 

95
00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:58,000
there. 
It's, it's not often that we 

96
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,560
have to purchase archives, but 
you know, anything good 

97
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,360
sometimes comes with a cost. 
And that's where we are, where 

98
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,200
we are now. 
It's also worth saying on a from

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00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,320
a goon's perspective, I've been 
working with Richard for the 

100
00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,640
last couple of years in, in 
acquiring and and safeguarding 

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00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,200
the Goon Show Preservation 
Society archive as well up at 

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00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,600
the University of York. 
So there's there's plenty of it.

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00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,600
What, what, what, what sort of 
material are we talking about 

104
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,080
with with the GSPS stuff? 
Oh, well, Richard, I feel I feel

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00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,000
a bit bad speaking on your 
behalf here. 

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00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,400
No, no, go, go for it. 
Yeah, all. 

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00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,080
Sorts of treasures and goodies. 
Well, I think what's interesting

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00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,440
about GSPS is that you're 
talking about a society that has

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the word preservation in its 
name. 

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It's not out and out a fan club.
It has worked to preserve and 

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00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:52,560
that's preserve memory and 
performance and enjoyment, but 

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00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,680
also the actual records behind 
the goons. 

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So as well as a full set of 
newsletters and goon show news 

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00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,040
going on right way back to the 
start of the GSPS. 

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There's also a full set of of 
scripts, but there's there's 

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00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,640
also original material as well. 
So there's the original script 

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00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,680
for the Secum and Friends 
performance of the Whistling Spy

118
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,400
Enigma, which is beautifully 
marked up by Peter Sellers. 

119
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,120
It's his. 
It's his performance script. 

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00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,200
There's some early prompt 
scripts as well, I think. 

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00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,760
Are they Dennis Mann? 
Wilson's Richard. 

122
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,320
You'd know more than I on that 
one. 

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00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,960
Are these the bound books? 
Was it Peter Eaton? 

124
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,560
Yeah. 
Peter Eaton, yes, good, because 

125
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,160
he he kept fairly meticulous 
records of all of the scripts. 

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00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,080
But for the various programs he 
produced and I think there's 

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00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,520
quite a few still available on 
various auction sites, he can, 

128
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,840
he can track down that that show
up occasionally with, but 

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00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,280
there's, there's a good 
proportion of original goon show

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00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,760
scripts, as you say, all marked 
up for use in the gallery, I 

131
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:10,320
guess when they're in recording.
Scripts for Fred and Son of 

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00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,040
Fred, he says from the top of 
his. 

133
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,720
Head show called Fred and Son of
Fred, Yeah. 

134
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,360
That's it, Yeah. 
But and then within it there's, 

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00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,720
you know, some audio, some audio
material. 

136
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,720
So we've got some sound effects 
discs which have been level and 

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00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,880
digitized and and much more to 
be discovered and much more 

138
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,880
besides. 
Do you have to? 

139
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,120
There was a there was a 
infamously rather a bitchy 

140
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,480
letter sent to the GSPS in the 
early days by Peter Sellers. 

141
00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:41,520
Do you know about this? 
Do you remember this, Richard? 

142
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,160
I have a vague recollection of 
of reading about it somewhere, 

143
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,400
but I can't remember the 
details. 

144
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:47,760
Somebody, I think it was Mike 
Coveney. 

145
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,440
Yeah, yeah, I think it was him 
in the in the news, in the one 

146
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,000
of the early newsletters had had
been rather disdainful of the 

147
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,800
latest Pink Panther picture. 
So we're talking sort of mid 70s

148
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,680
Peter Sellers wrote this not 
furious letter, but this rather 

149
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:08,720
sort of acidic letter pretty 
much saying I wish to 

150
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,880
disassociate myself from the 
society as a result of, you 

151
00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,040
know, poor form on your part 
sort of thing. 

152
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,240
Wow. 
So I wonder if that haven't. 

153
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,960
I haven't picked up on that yet,
but it may well be there's. 

154
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,240
I mean, the fact is that 
obviously the GSPS archive has 

155
00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,480
been distributed right over the 
country, if not the world 

156
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,520
throughout its life. 
So we're in a stage of gathering

157
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,760
it together in one location. 
And then once we've got that, we

158
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,840
can start to go through it a bit
more systematically. 

159
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,280
I've done the early work of 
getting it all into a kind of 

160
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,960
sensible order. 
So once we get to that point 

161
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,240
where we can get a critical 
mass, we can get that up and out

162
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:52,920
there. 
But it is great. 

163
00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:57,680
It's a super collection. 
And it was a little bit of 

164
00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:59,960
effort of just sort of talking 
to Richard and saying, well, 

165
00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:04,040
look, that GSPS is interesting 
in itself for researchers in the

166
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:10,120
future about how fan fandom and 
fan organizations and the 

167
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,360
carrying of the torch of of 
programs that had that had 

168
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,000
finished actually came together.
Because I'm right on. 

169
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,960
I Richard, the GSPS. 
Is it the first sort of big 

170
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,200
media fan club? 
If you like. 

171
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,400
Yeah, I mean, it's what, 5053 
years or something now. 

172
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,040
So yeah, I think it's it's been 
on the go, you know, covering 

173
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,480
all of the different bits of 
media. 

174
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,720
It's embraced everything. 
In fact, our, our old website 

175
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:42,120
has resurfaced. 
We've no idea where from or who 

176
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,440
has it, but it's, it's 
reappeared as if by magic. 

177
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:47,720
If you look it up, it's it's 
there. 

178
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,880
So yes, we've, we've, we've 
crossed the crossed the, the 

179
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,560
decades with, with various 
specific media and we are, I 

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00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:59,040
think still possibly in the 
world, the only fan club or 

181
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,960
appreciation society that had a,
a member of the royal family as 

182
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,120
a, as a patron. 
He's not returning your calls 

183
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,800
that since he got the the big 
job though. 

184
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,840
Again, no, no, we've, we've sent
you Dolly mixtures, Jelly 

185
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,920
babies, you name it. 
Nothing, Nothing. 

186
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,200
Just. 
Because you've got bigger legs 

187
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,320
in that hair. 
Gary, it must be fascinating. 

188
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,320
I mean, so your job, you. 
So you're essentially, what do 

189
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,600
you call yourself? 
An archivist? 

190
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,120
Yes, Yeah, yeah, overall. 
Yeah, and, and and forgive my 

191
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,400
ignorance here. 
Are you archiving anything or 

192
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,840
everything? 
Is it, is it very much pop 

193
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,240
popular culture stuff with the 
popular cultural bent or, or or 

194
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,320
what? 
It's a broad, it's a broad 

195
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,120
remit. 
So we mentioned them at the 

196
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,560
University of York. 
The, the, the archive I work in 

197
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,480
is, is called the Bothwick 
Institute for Archives. 

198
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,000
It's been around since 1953. 
And the real function is to 

199
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:57,120
provide and collect material to 
support research and, and 

200
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,880
teaching at York. 
I guess that's, that's, that's 

201
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,920
the reason the university is 
behind this as well as doing 

202
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,960
this kind of collecting for 
cultural and and public good and

203
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,840
helping us understand who we are
as, as people. 

204
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,200
York has a School of Arts and 
Creativity and now we're 

205
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:20,720
collecting of TV and radio and 
theatre collections that started

206
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,160
in the early 2000s about around 
about the time that the School 

207
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,360
of Arts and Creativity was was 
established as the Department of

208
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,400
Theatre, Film and Television. 
And the intent behind that was 

209
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:35,480
to collect records and archives 
of performers and writers in in 

210
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:41,440
particular, so the students and,
and staff and, and, and people 

211
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:47,360
working in, in that orbit could 
learn and get experience from 

212
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,880
the best writers and performers 
and, and learn, learn from that.

213
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,000
If you, if you want to conceive 
an archive service in a 

214
00:12:55,000 --> 00:13:00,120
university, you've got to see it
as a bit of like a lab for the 

215
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,320
sciences. 
So, you know, chemistry and 

216
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,640
physics have big, big, big 
buildings full of machines that 

217
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,400
do lasers and make hydrogen and 
all these kind of things. 

218
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,000
It's the same for the 
humanities. 

219
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,960
It's a, it's a, it's a research 
resource. 

220
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,600
We're not fussed about who's 
doing the research. 

221
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,280
We, we love it just as much when
someone comes in just for pure 

222
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,840
pleasure as we do from a big 
international academic research 

223
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,960
project. 
And as we've built this writing 

224
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,920
and performance collections up, 
you do start to find, if you 

225
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,160
like invisible threads behind 
the collections that start to 

226
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,280
join them together and that 
that's what you really want. 

227
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,360
You want our coach to be able to
speak to each other and give, 

228
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,600
you know, other perspectives. 
There were kind of one name that

229
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,480
came up as we went along. 
So we collected the archive of 

230
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:52,160
Sir Alan Eightbourne, Barry Tuck
Marks and Gran in particular was

231
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,640
Frankie Howard. 
You know, Frankie worked with 

232
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,680
everybody amazingly, including 
Alan Eightbourne in his early 

233
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,040
days. 
Alan Eightbourne wrote sketch, 

234
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,080
at least one sketch for Frankie 
Howard and and the other name 

235
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,680
that was starting to appear once
we were working with Frankie 

236
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,600
Zarkiv was was Galton and 
Simpson. 

237
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,520
And so we realised then with 
Barry Talk, we were starting to 

238
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,720
get together a collection 
related to popular entertainment

239
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,320
and specifically writers that 
are related to Associated London

240
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,640
scripts. 
And this is really where the 

241
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,440
GSPS starts to starts to come in
obviously with with Spike and 

242
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,880
everyone around there that was 
involved in Associated London 

243
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,400
scripts. 
Frank Frankie Howard was a 

244
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,640
founding member of ours was 
Galton and Simpson. 

245
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,680
So that's the kind of coalescing
that's come together around, I'm

246
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,280
calling it popular 
entertainment. 

247
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,120
Some people are saying light 
entertainment. 

248
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,080
I I insist on popular because 
it's some of the more you know, 

249
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,400
you know, it's high and don't 
say high and low culture because

250
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,800
that's still disparaging. 
It's not that at all. 

251
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,560
It's, it's the stuff that people
watched on the TV or listened to

252
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,800
on the radio and shaped the 
British mindset for the latter 

253
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,560
half of the 20th century. 
So with that, if you start with 

254
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,280
Galtman Simpson, where you start
with Hancock as one of the first

255
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,840
popular sitcoms, we can go right
the way through to Lawrence 

256
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,800
Marks and Maurice Graham, who 
you know, you start to get 

257
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,200
almost like not the end of the 
line, but the, the, the current 

258
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,960
evolution of it in things like 
birds of a Feather and and good 

259
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,160
night sweetheart. 
Beyond the theatrical 

260
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,120
collections, we have a 
wide-ranging set of stuff. 

261
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,040
We go from the medieval church 
to confectionery manufacture, 

262
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,240
southern Africa, medical 
histories, diplomacy, 

263
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,160
architecture and and much more. 
But hopefully building a a 

264
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,960
collection and you know, a 
collection of collections, if 

265
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,920
you like, that can speak to each
other and give different 

266
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,280
perspectives on who we are as 
people really. 

267
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,960
OK. 
How did you how did you get into

268
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,280
it? 
I am a nosy, I'm a curious nosy 

269
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,840
person. 
And I like find, you know, I 

270
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,160
like, I like finding things out 
the kind of direct trajectories 

271
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,960
as I was actually a student at 
York and I was researching my 

272
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,640
dissertation on the adulteration
of cocoa products in the 19th 

273
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,080
century and I was researching at
the Bothwick. 

274
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,840
And there was just a point where
the arrogance of youth, you just

275
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,080
go, they seem to be having fun, 
I'll go do that. 

276
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,880
And then, you know, you just go,
OK, that's what I'm going to do.

277
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,360
Never really thought things 
through to any depth. 

278
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,200
And I think today you'd be 
giving someone a really heavy 

279
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,440
career talk about the choices 
you should make to do that. 

280
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,000
But I just thought, OK, I'll do 
your job. 

281
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,000
And that's, that's realistically
it. 

282
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,320
But I'm not mega organised. 
I am, I will do it. 

283
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,520
I mean, it there is a thing that
in, you know, every archivist's 

284
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,760
house and personal papers are an
absolute mess. 

285
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,960
You know, cobbly shoes are the 
worst shod, as they say. 

286
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,680
But there is a lot of that of 
trying, trying to understand 

287
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,120
people, trying to understand how
things come to be. 

288
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,240
I feel really privileged that 
I've grown up now when I have 

289
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,359
because I have the ability to 
pull a phone out of my pocket. 

290
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,240
And you know, when you have 
those little brain itches of why

291
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,400
is that like that, you can 
actually just find out. 

292
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,280
I think. 
I think I live, you know, 

293
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,680
although I often think I may be 
living at the wrong time. 

294
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,520
I feel incredibly lucky that I 
can do that. 

295
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:23,079
And I, I get to skip around and,
and this afternoon I was looking

296
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,040
at stuff for the last of the 
Summer Wine, the history of 

297
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,600
ophthalmic health in the 19th 
century, and the medieval 

298
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,320
church. 
So that that was my afternoon. 

299
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,840
Well, well, amazing variety. 
So you live at live at a dull 

300
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,760
moment. 
I would be absolutely. 

301
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,680
I'm sure you would be too, 
Richard in in my element. 

302
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,480
Oh gosh, yes. 
I mean, when when Gary talks 

303
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,080
about all those different 
collections, it's it's, it's 

304
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,120
almost like the spirit of Spike 
and Larry might have been there 

305
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,720
looking at all those subjects 
because they they're pretty much

306
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,960
all covered in the Goon show, 
aren't they, over the years, all

307
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,400
of those. 
I don't seem, I don't think 

308
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,960
there was a Goon show which 
focused on the adulteration of 

309
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,480
Coco products in the 19th 
century. 

310
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,520
Oh. 
Well, possibly resurfaced. 

311
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,400
Possibly the others, yeah. 
Let me let me put my cards on 

312
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,520
the table here with with regards
to Gordon and Simpson, I'm 

313
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,840
massive fan of Steptoe and son. 
I've always been a bit less keen

314
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,440
on Tony Hancock. 
A weird sort of lack of 

315
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,200
engagement with Tony Hancock. 
I love the people that he worked

316
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,720
with in Hancock's Alfair and you
know, on the radio and whatnot. 

317
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,080
But I just found find him. 
So with regards to Golden 

318
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,520
Simpson, I, I, you know, for me 
they are the geniuses behind 

319
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,240
Steptoe, right? 
And, and obviously I appreciate,

320
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,840
you know, the role in the post 
war British comedy and 

321
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,400
especially, you know, their 
association with Spike and Eric 

322
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,360
and, and the rest that 
associated London script. 

323
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,000
I, I don't know, I know a lot 
about them, but I don't know a 

324
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,280
lot. 
I don't know everything about 

325
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,640
them like I do or think I do 
about Milligan, for example. 

326
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,520
So I kind of assume that Galton 
and Simpson did the archives 

327
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,600
would be already somewhere, if 
you know what I mean. 

328
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,040
I mean, where have they been in 
the the estates or estate of 

329
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,560
Galton and Simpson or where 
where have they been up to now? 

330
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,000
Yeah, that's, that's exactly it.
They were with the family. 

331
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,360
So after we had that first sort 
of discussion about about, would

332
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:19,720
you be interested, you think, 
oh, OK, I'll go and see them. 

333
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:27,960
And at the time, late 2021, they
were still in Ray's house, which

334
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,720
was in in the grounds of Hampton
Court Palace. 

335
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,000
So not, not my house by any 
stretch of the imagination. 

336
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,000
And they were there. 
They were, they were in the 

337
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,640
cellar, they were in a series of
filing cabinets. 

338
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,840
Ray should have done my job. 
He was incredibly diligent at 

339
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,840
keeping a really well organised 
set of papers. 

340
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,920
Every file, every script, every 
production has its own file. 

341
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,440
All the scripts are in that 
file. 

342
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,240
That file is numbered and it 
corresponds to a key. 

343
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,600
And you can't ask for more than 
that. 

344
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,080
You absolutely can't. 
And there's more than one index 

345
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:00,520
we found. 
There's a, there's a 

346
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,720
chronological 1, and there's one
by production as well. 

347
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:08,880
So Hallelujah for that. 
And as with that, there's agent,

348
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,520
there was the agency contracts 
and correspondence files as 

349
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,880
well. 
And so that's the kind of the 

350
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,240
business side of the 
arrangement. 

351
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,240
But it was, it was still, it was
still with the family, Yeah. 

352
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,320
The the notion of preserving 
stuff if you'd like the idea of 

353
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:31,440
archiving everything or as much 
of your own work as you could. 

354
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,760
I think that's more of a, a 
relatively recent thing. 

355
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:39,560
Was Ray right from the early 
days keeping everything and and 

356
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,200
logging everything? 
Yeah, yeah. 

357
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,480
In short, yes. 
So in the Goten and Simpson 

358
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,280
archive we go right back to the 
sketch to the shows they wrote 

359
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,760
when they were in Milford 
Sanatorium for the hospital 

360
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,480
radio. 
We go right the way back to 1949

361
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,600
and have you ever wondered these
handwritten and that's the first

362
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,000
one episode 1 is there Have you 
ever wondered so they kept that 

363
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,000
what I've also learned. 
I mean, you know obviously I 

364
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,480
like you. 
I knew of Ray and Allen are 

365
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,040
quite sort of the opposite quite
like Hancock. 

366
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,280
I've never really gelled with 
Steptoe, but you know you start 

367
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,680
to appreciate it when you start 
working with it. 

368
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,160
One thing I've appreciated is 
how often they returned to their

369
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,240
material. 
So for, you know, for instance, 

370
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,480
the blood donor arth is is 3 
thick files and that's because 

371
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,720
they came back to it so often 
for subsequent remakes. 

372
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:39,560
On the subject of Steptoe, 
there's the Christmas night with

373
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,200
the stars, you know, which used 
to be on every Christmas on the 

374
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,080
beat. 
Stepped toe was on it twice. 

375
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,880
It was on in 1962 and I think 
1967. 

376
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,480
Well, in that file I have found 
one for possibly 1970 that was 

377
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,560
never made. 
Only it was because the 

378
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,160
Christmas special, I think it's 
the party where they end up 

379
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,600
getting chicken pox, is 
basically that Christmas night 

380
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,040
with the stars scripts that they
wrote. 

381
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,920
Expanded I'm guessing. 
Yeah, and that's why if you 

382
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,960
watch that episode, it feels 
like there's a hunt break turn 

383
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,880
halfway through. 
It's because it is. 

384
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,920
It's because they've gone right.
We've got this one. 

385
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,680
We will, you know, build it 
around this idea. 

386
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,480
So I think they kept stuff 
because they kept coming back to

387
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,320
it to to redevelop it if it's an
idea they liked and didn't 

388
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,560
develop, you know, I think it 
was almost like a store, a store

389
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,760
of ideas that they could re 
mine. 

390
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,480
Because, you know, up until the 
7th, you know, up until the 80s,

391
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,800
there's no such thing as home 
video. 

392
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:45,960
So they were going to remake 20 
some Hancock episodes in 1973 

393
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,880
with Arthur Lowe and James Beck.
And we did the pilot and we did 

394
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,400
the the economy drive and Arthur
was marvellous. 

395
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,320
It was marvellous. 
And we all said, right, OK, 

396
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,560
that's it. 
And we, we were about to embark 

397
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,440
on a series when Jimmy Beck 
suddenly kills over and dies. 

398
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:11,960
And so we all thought, oh. 
God, you know, another, another 

399
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:18,200
one died and and we all lost 
enthusiasm for it, but I'm sure 

400
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,960
that Arthur Lowe would have made
a big success in the. 

401
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,000
Re presentation reinterpretation
of. 

402
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,040
Of the Hancock half hours he. 
Was going to do all he was going

403
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,800
to do all of me. 
The interesting thing there 

404
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,000
again you see is that was about 
1975. 

405
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,160
I think it was 74 five in that 
era, which was only about 15 

406
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,960
years after they've been done by
Hancock. 

407
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,920
So that that I think that kind 
of almost validated their 

408
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,720
approach was that you can come 
back and recoup this and redo 

409
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,680
it. 
And I think as well as that, Ray

410
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,400
and Allen and probably working 
with Beryl, Beryl Virtue and 

411
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,960
then Tesla bars as their agents 
were really good at packaging up

412
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,400
and reselling formulas abroad as
well for remakes. 

413
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,040
And I think that's part of why 
they kept stuff as well. 

414
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,280
It was always something you 
could come back and resell. 

415
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,120
Yeah, Beryl kind of. 
Didn't she get in with Norman 

416
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:16,440
Lear and things like obviously 
all in the family was Johnny 

417
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,240
Spate was was, what do you call 
it, Elf Garnet? 

418
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,640
But Sanford and Son was 
obviously yes. 

419
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,880
So there's stick files of 
correspondence about all those 

420
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,960
negotiations with Norman Lear to
make Sanford and Son. 

421
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,720
We've actually got the the 
telegram that confirms that they

422
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,680
got red fox and an all black 
cast, which is, you know, here. 

423
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,320
It's important in America. 
That's huge. 

424
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,560
Yeah, and it's, it's kept, I 
think that that's the thing. 

425
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,680
It's it's there and has been 
filed and it's so like you're 

426
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,480
suggesting it could so easily 
have gone into bin. 

427
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,200
I think they were just really 
good as well at being quite 

428
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,840
pioneering at, at managing and 
valuing their own output in that

429
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,440
it was something worth guarding.
Concepts were worth guarding. 

430
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,560
Copyright's important, you know,
licensing agreements are 

431
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,600
important, and they're doing 
that from the early 50s. 

432
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,760
It's just occurred to me as 
well. 

433
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,800
Of course the reason that we 
still to this day can watch the 

434
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,920
the black and white step toes is
because was it Ray had had them 

435
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,000
recorded I. 
Think so. 

436
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,920
Yeah, up in his up in his attic 
or something. 

437
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,360
Yeah, yeah, Sorry, Richard, 
We've we've got exclusivity from

438
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,200
what's I mean, Richard, Yeah, on
Golden and Simpson. 

439
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,120
What's because we've I don't 
think you and I have discussed 

440
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:26,640
them before. 
What? 

441
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,080
What's your are you, are you a 
huge Hancock fan? 

442
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,000
Are you a particular Steptoe fan
or or what? 

443
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,000
I'm, I'm very much a a Hancock 
fan. 

444
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,600
I mean, I'm a member of the Tony
Hancock appreciation society as 

445
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,400
well. 
So I, I just adore what you 

446
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,040
know, that that whole sort of 
that, that life they gave to 

447
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,600
that, that character and, and 
how it morphed and changed over 

448
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,800
time. 
And as you know, saying re re 

449
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,600
kind of reworked those 
blueprints for for early 

450
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,280
situation comedy. 
Steptoe and son. 

451
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:06,200
I probably came to as probably 
early teens when they were sort 

452
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,800
of repeated on and off. 
I never quite got them in the 

453
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,840
same way. 
You know, if I knew that Hancock

454
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,320
was going to be repeated, I 
would have set, you know, got a 

455
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,320
videotape or set up a cassette 
player or something like that. 

456
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,280
But never quite got that with 
Steptoe and Son. 

457
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,760
But it's, it's episodes like the
one with Leonard Rossiter, those

458
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,720
sort of episodes and they, and 
the key one where the, they 

459
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,520
split the house down the middle 
and things like that. 

460
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,800
But those, they're just iconic 
and, and they're so funny. 

461
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,920
They still, they're still very, 
very funny. 

462
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,600
So I'd say I'm more on the 
Hancock side, but that's, that's

463
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,920
again, also to do with how I 
came to the goons. 

464
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,840
You know, it's, it's my, my dad 
introducing me to the LP's. 

465
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,520
So the LP's of the goons and 
Hancock were you know you the 

466
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,840
very I don't think was there 
ever a a step tone son best of 

467
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:09,280
LP audio LP. 
Much later, the BBC put out the 

468
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,280
radio series Oh. 
That's right. 

469
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,480
Yes, Yeah. 
On tape. 

470
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,360
But I don't think I heard, I 
don't think I heard any on on 

471
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,080
LP. 
So, you know, when it came to my

472
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,720
sort of bonding with my, my old 
pal Mark over no more carried 

473
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,960
eggs for me. 
And it was Hancock scripts and 

474
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,120
and goon scripts that mostly got
the thing. 

475
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:35,600
But I I'm feeling, you know, 
that that's that's where that 

476
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,120
love and attraction to those 
scripts came from. 

477
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,400
But yeah, I, I could, I could 
watch Stepstones so quite 

478
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,760
happily. 
If you, if you put me on a 10 

479
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,480
hour flight somewhere and all I 
could watch was Stepstones and 

480
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,080
I'd, I'd be happy. 
Yeah, I'd be very happy. 

481
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:50,640
Me too. 
What you doing after the 

482
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,960
funeral? 
A friend of mine's got a little 

483
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,400
rave up at her pad. 
Interested. 

484
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,640
She's your mother. 
She's upstairs going through the

485
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,960
linen cupboard. 
It's all right in it. 

486
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,320
I mean Cousins. 
Oh yeah, no bother. 

487
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,880
We're well removed at the 
moment. 

488
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,320
Will you pick me up? 
Yeah, yeah, sure. 

489
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:16,160
Oh, what time? 
Oh, well, I've got to bring me 

490
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,320
mum back here for the share out.
Mind you, that won't take long. 

491
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,560
As far as I'm concerned, the 
only thing worth's having that 

492
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,120
that force length figurine on 
the man 6:00. 

493
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:28,240
Yeah, fine. 
See you later. 

494
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,600
You want to keep away from that.
Well, what's it got to do with? 

495
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,720
You. 
That's Alice's girl. 

496
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:47,680
I saw what, Cousins? 
I saw what? 

497
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,760
Yeah. 
But none of them is nobbies. 

498
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,240
I told you that. 
That makes it even better, don't

499
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,800
it? 
We don't. 

500
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,320
Know it could be any of us. 
What? 

501
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,440
A. 
Bleeding Family. 

502
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,200
Actually, just want to think 
about it, Gary, because you made

503
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,160
a point that you said about, you
know, obviously VCRS and 

504
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,680
whatnot, people didn't own them 
until the 80s, but famously, Bob

505
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,200
Monkhouse had early prototypes 
of VCR machines, didn't he? 

506
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,840
And. 
He did. 

507
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,840
Yeah, it was. 
It was a compulsive recorder of 

508
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,280
things. 
Well, a hoarder is probably the 

509
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,000
right way, so. 
Where's his archive? 

510
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Where's his stuff? 
Do you know? 

511
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,400
As far as I know, I think Bob's 
tape collection is with the 

512
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,480
archive charity Kaleidoscope. 
Oh, right. 

513
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,920
Yeah. 
But the, the size and scale of 

514
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,920
it is formidable. 
And I, I wish him the best of 

515
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,240
luck with that because it, hell,
it's going to be it, it, you 

516
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,080
know, it's a cricket pavilion in
his garden. 

517
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,760
There's, there's not that much 
AV in Gordon and Simpsons, which

518
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,800
are kind of expected there to be
potentially more of there. 

519
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,720
There really isn't. 
There are some pneumatics of 

520
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,120
step tours, but you know, 
they're, they're copies that the

521
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,200
BBC sent them, I assume when 
they were doing, you know, other

522
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:16,360
productions or, or, or whatever.
There's one late 60s videotape 

523
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,600
reel that we're going to 
investigate because we, it might

524
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,760
have some Hancock material on. 
We we don't know. 

525
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,280
It's not until someone actually 
tries to recover the signal that

526
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,520
will have any idea. 
But there's there's a little 

527
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,200
bit. 
There's the the original 35 male

528
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,720
black and white reels for the 
1965 American version of Steptoe

529
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,720
and Son as well. 
With Aldo Ray. 

530
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,040
That's the one, yeah. 
They're in there. 

531
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,640
Yeah, yeah. 
We realised we, we, we quite 

532
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,920
easily found which box had those
reels in because it's the one 

533
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,440
that weighed a ton. 
It's like, yeah, it's plenty 

534
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,680
heavy, right. 
All right, 35 mil cans. 

535
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,240
Yeah. 
So there's those as well. 

536
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,920
But most of it is the written 
word in in Ray and Allen's 

537
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,400
stuff. 
Was it was there much in the way

538
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,320
of, you know, reel to reel tapes
of the the radio shows, the 

539
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,040
Hancock radio shows? 
Only for the episodes that I 

540
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,800
think is it was there something 
called unique Hancock or 

541
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,320
something early? 
It might be mid 70s. 

542
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,160
It appears they kept those ones 
that were sent to them as like, 

543
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,880
you know, which ones do you want
to pick for your best of season?

544
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,800
But no, no, it's, it's, it's, 
it's a strange one that, and I 

545
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,280
don't know if, if there's a, if 
there's a, a reason for it or or

546
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,920
not. 
They were very diligent about 

547
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,520
the written output. 
But yeah, there's very little of

548
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,960
what actually it, it became so 
far. 

549
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,240
You never know. 
There could be another room 

550
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,560
somewhere that's full of them. 
Well, it there was obviously 

551
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,200
great rejoicing in recent years 
because there was not one but 

552
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:48,520
two thought lost Hancock radio 
shows discovered or Hancock half

553
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,400
hour radio shows discovered. 
And obviously, Richard, you and 

554
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,960
I, you know, the, the the Holy 
Grail for us, I guess would be 

555
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,900
as goons fans would be pre, 
well, let's let's say pre 

556
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:05,160
season, pre series 4. 
Yes, Oh yeah, absolutely stuff. 

557
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,200
Good quality of you know as 
well. 

558
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,760
If that ever turns up, I mean, 
that that's one of the things I,

559
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,280
I was keen to get the, the, the 
goon share preservation society 

560
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,640
archives kind of in, in one 
place because that sort of 

561
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,200
thing, you know, it's just 
possible somebody somewhere in 

562
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,840
the society might have had 
something that they were looking

563
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,560
after thinking, oh, this, this 
might go in handy one day. 

564
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,480
It hasn't surfaced yet, but this
you live in hope, you know, and 

565
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:41,200
and there are always things 
popping up, but whether it's 

566
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,640
diligence on the parts of people
like Sellers and Milligan, you 

567
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,000
know who I mean, Sellers bought 
a record cutter, a disc cutter 

568
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,280
from, from Bob Munkhouse and 
recorded a lot of his own early 

569
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,760
appearances, I think on acetates
and things. 

570
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,920
And I think Spike similarly had 
paper tapes or something that he

571
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:03,160
recorded some material on. 
So there's there's things like 

572
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,400
that that might, you know, I 
mean. 

573
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,760
Didn't sellers have a big 
bonfire in the 70s? 

574
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:09,960
You get got rid of a load of 
his. 

575
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,120
Stuff he did yeah. 
Well, that's that's the 

576
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,600
assumption I I spoke to the 
producer of a documentary 

577
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,760
recently on the unknown, the 
unknown pizza sellers. 

578
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,080
And he got to know I think Lynn 
Frederick's family quite well. 

579
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,920
And so there's still, I think 
some doubt as to whether 

580
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,600
everything actually did go up in
a a bonfire with I think because

581
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,080
Sellers allegedly said he 
destroyed everything that he 

582
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,240
had, you know, had had any 
bearing on his professional 

583
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,680
career with Spike. 
But but then some material, you 

584
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,960
know, acetates and things did 
did resurface that had gone to 

585
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,280
to other members of the family. 
So it's, it's just possible 

586
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,440
there's things out there still 
true that are in private 

587
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,160
collections and things which we 
can, we can just, you know, live

588
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,000
in hope on that one. 
And it's not impossible. 

589
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,920
I mean, Richard, you'll remember
when we did a tour around the 

590
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:12,280
Bothwick for, for, for yourself 
and I showed you the JRT Davis 

591
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,320
discs, which are the source 
material, aren't they? 

592
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,280
For the goons that most people 
have have heard of. 

593
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,040
We have JRT Davis's archive and,
and in it is what to all extents

594
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,400
and purposes looks a bit like a 
footstool, but within it are the

595
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:33,080
original recordings, the off air
recordings that we used in the 

596
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,320
remastering for the compendium 
and other things. 

597
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:42,400
So they're there, you know, and 
that's completely because they 

598
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,159
were in his possession, I assume
when he when he passed away. 

599
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,520
So it's not impossible. 
I have to stress, there's 

600
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,400
nothing in those disks having 
gone through them that is in any

601
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,080
way missing or, or, or 
unreleased there. 

602
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,160
There was one that we just 
tested because the those discs, 

603
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,360
they only have about four or 
five players before you start to

604
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,600
lose the signal. 
And so we tested one and it's 

605
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,360
exactly the same as the released
content. 

606
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,760
So everyone can breathe there. 
But the, I, I think it, we're in

607
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,960
a bit of a fertile, potentially 
fertile period for that kind of 

608
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,520
lost radio and TV media. 
We've noticed it now that there 

609
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,920
are, there's been a bit of a lag
between people passing away and 

610
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,840
their families wanting to deal 
with their estate. 

611
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,520
We're seeing it now for visual 
media through the Film is 

612
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,960
Fabulous. 
I don't know if you've you've 

613
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,640
come across that the film is 
Fabulous campaign, which is 

614
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,280
going through the collections of
these, you know, collectors that

615
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,440
have amassed thousands of cans 
of films in their garages and 

616
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,280
outbuildings and lofts and, and 
scanning them looking for 

617
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,720
missing content. 
And I think we're going to see 

618
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,040
the same with audio. 
You know, some I am. 

619
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:56,080
I don't want to nail my colours 
to the mast, but I, I would feel

620
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,440
relatively confident that there 
will be other discoveries of 

621
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:05,360
missing radio programs. 
The danger, I think as, as, as 

622
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,120
Richard alluded to, is where you
have it in a collection and the 

623
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,480
rest of the family don't know 
what it is and don't don't 

624
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,880
notice it. 
And that that I think is the big

625
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,960
danger is that, you know, if you
have a collection like that and 

626
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,960
you do have early or missing 
material in and you're worried 

627
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,920
about, you know, declaring it, 
just leave a note somewhere for 

628
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,520
crying out this, don't throw 
this away because that that's 

629
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,440
the that's the terrible scary 
thing is when someone has a a 

630
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,320
really unique collection and you
know, the house clearer's just 

631
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,440
come in and get rid of it. 
So, you know, do do do come 

632
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,080
forth early. 
It's fine. 

633
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,800
Nobody's fussed would just be 
happy. 

634
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,040
It's there aren't. 
People more savvy these days as 

635
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,960
well that anything that 
everything's got a value, some 

636
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,280
sort of intrinsic value now, you
know, with eBay and everything 

637
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,000
like that. 
So I think people are less 

638
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,280
likely to just throw something 
in the skip. 

639
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,720
It's certainly, it's certainly 
become more, more of a common 

640
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:05,680
thing now to receive because as 
secretary of the, of the 

641
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,880
society, I, I see a lot of 
emails and they come through and

642
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,600
some people are saying, Oh, my, 
my father passed away or my, my 

643
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,160
uncle or my grandfather. 
And they've got this collection 

644
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,240
of tapes that they recorded from
the 1970s and it's, they're 

645
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,640
listed as goons. 
And there's some of them are, 

646
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,560
you know, cartridge tapes or 
reel to reels and things like 

647
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,600
that. 
And there's a good chance that 

648
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,000
there's nothing on there other 
than somebody's sat with a 

649
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,120
microphone connected to the TV 
or the radio listening to Radio 

650
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:43,080
4 or really fusion or whatever. 
So, but there's always, always a

651
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,640
chance somewhere in the midst of
all of that, there is some 

652
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,160
hidden treasure. 
So I do always try and reply to 

653
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,520
those emails. 
There's been a couple actually, 

654
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,440
I should probably follow up on 
that. 

655
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,760
That never got back to me. 
But you know, at times where a 

656
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,720
family member has passed away, 
there's a lot of emotion 

657
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:03,680
involved and it's, it's very 
difficult. 

658
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,200
You've just got to be very 
delicate and tactful about 

659
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,400
approaching them. 
But like, say, sometimes house 

660
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:15,280
clearances do happen and you 
know, things disappear onto on 

661
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,600
eBay or into charity shops and 
that sort of thing. 

662
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,200
Yeah, I think things happen like
that. 

663
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:25,520
So we as part of part of the 
overall archive, we managed to 

664
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:31,440
obtain a pilot that Frankie 
Howard did in 1971 for an 

665
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,320
American version of Pompeii that
was made by NBC. 

666
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,600
And then quite honestly was was 
not that good. 

667
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,200
And in fact, so not that good. 
It was never actually broadcast.

668
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,840
And that that appeared on eBay. 
We don't know if someone had 

669
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,840
read something about people 
being interested in it and, and 

670
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,800
just put it up. 
But my word, you, you the the 

671
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,960
challenge of getting a 
university to deal with an 

672
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,000
anonymous eBay seller was when I
will never forget. 

673
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,600
But we did it. 
We got it and we have it. 

674
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,000
So this stuff does appear. 
And so, OK, so one of the 

675
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,000
reasons we're talking tonight is
that you've you've got access to

676
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,680
the Galton and Simpson archive, 
or part of it at least. 

677
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,440
I understand. 
OK. 

678
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,800
And there was a discovery and 
with and and you know, with 

679
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,080
media hyperbole and whatnot. 
The the, the, the, the headline 

680
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,280
was Goldman Simpson wrote a Goon
show or wrote for the Goon Show.

681
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,000
But it's not technically 
correct. 

682
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,560
I don't believe. 
I think it's more they wrote 

683
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,040
some scripts for Peter Sellers 
in which he was playing Goon 

684
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,240
Show characters, but it wasn't 
actually for the Goon Show. 

685
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,600
Is that is that right? 
That's that sounds about right, 

686
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,280
doesn't it? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

687
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,120
There's a series called Midday 
Music Hall, which was broadcast 

688
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,080
in 1954, and I think there were 
five scripts or something like 

689
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,120
that. 
Gary, is that right? 

690
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:58,160
5 or 6 scripts, Yeah. 
Well, in total for the for the 

691
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,760
period that we have the the ones
that Cotton and Simpson wrote, 

692
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,200
it was, it was just three, it 
was over October 1954. 

693
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,720
Oh, OK. 
So because ALS begins, I think 

694
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:14,320
N54 starts up and Hancock's Hour
also starts up in the first 

695
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,320
episode of that is in November 
54. 

696
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,320
So it's literally on the cusp of
that. 

697
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,000
They they so there's three 
scripts that are that are that 

698
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,400
are done. 
The last one is recorded on the 

699
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,440
same day as the first episode of
Hancock's Half Hour right? 

700
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,440
OK. 
In fact, they're happening 

701
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,560
simultaneously. 
When you look at the timeline of

702
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,560
the recording times, the one the
the last one, which is we'll go 

703
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,000
through what they are I suppose 
in a bit, but the last one is 

704
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,680
being recorded exactly at the 
same time as the recording in 

705
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,600
rehearsal for the first 
Hancock's half hour. 

706
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,200
So there's 2 two things 
happening at the same time. 

707
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,760
And this would have been because
I know that the the same night 

708
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,120
that Hancock's half hour went 
out, the Goon show, the canal 

709
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,960
went out. 
So it's early Series 5 of the 

710
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,840
Goon Show. 
So that's where Sellers is in 

711
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:11,080
terms of the timeline. 
Never, never go near the canal. 

712
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,600
Why not? 
Just never go near the canal, 

713
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,880
that's all. 
Place. 

714
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,600
Oh, pick out everything we need 
for the party here. 

715
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,920
Solid silver cutlery. 
Hush. 

716
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,400
Dinner services. 
Expensive wine glasses. 

717
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,440
Yeah, I've seen my glass. 
I'm having that one over there. 

718
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,360
No, no, no, no, no, you're not. 
That's mine. 

719
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,840
I saw it first. 
You're not having it. 

720
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,160
My party. 
There's plenty of other glasses.

721
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,480
Look, I've taken a fancy to that
one. 

722
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,320
So have I let go of it? 
Give it a me. 

723
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,960
Let go. 
Put it down, both of you. 

724
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,840
That poor goldfish has nearly 
fallen out three times. 

725
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,880
So what do we know about Gorman 
Simpson? 

726
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,000
Was it just, do we, do we, do we
know anything? 

727
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,480
Do we know that Sellers sort of 
commissioned them to write these

728
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:57,360
short sketches or or anything? 
There's frustratingly a little 

729
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,520
bit, there's, there's 
frustratingly little about that 

730
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,040
in, in the archive. 
It's, it's, I say it's so early 

731
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:09,320
in their career. 
You don't get large files of, of

732
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,080
contracts or or some or 
correspondence about that. 

733
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,840
It's it's so early, I've had a 
look and there's nothing, 

734
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,880
there's nothing there. 
So it's hard to say. 

735
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:25,080
My, if you want my pet, personal
pet theory, as you said, this is

736
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,920
Gunshaw Series 5. 
It's got to be such an 

737
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,920
incredibly busy period for 
Spike. 

738
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:38,200
So at this point in time of the 
scripts that happen in the two 

739
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,280
or three weeks leading up to 
these midday Music Hall 

740
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,760
sketches, you've got the 
Whistling Spy Enigma, the Lost 

741
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,160
Gold Mine of Charlotte, the 
Dreddon batter pudding Hurler of

742
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,240
Bexley on Sea, Phantom Head 
Shaver of Brighton, Affair of 

743
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:56,120
the Lone Banana. 
So that's how much Spike is 

744
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,960
pumping out at this point in 
time. 

745
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,960
We know that Spike didn't didn't
write for sellers when seller 

746
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,280
was doing stuff solo. 
To me it sounds like they've 

747
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,680
cast around. 
Ray and Allen are in the run up 

748
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,920
to the first episode of Hancock 
and they are at that point in 

749
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,680
time just knocking out odd 
sketches for various shows. 

750
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,960
So my pet theory is they said, 
look, we'll take this on. 

751
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,160
You know, you want goons, we'll 
do goons and and just do these, 

752
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,320
you know, as a favour to to 
Peter Sellers potentially or a 

753
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,080
favour to Spike. 
I'm I'm not too sure do. 

754
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,640
You do you think that they were 
maybe trying to showcased to 

755
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,000
spike that they could write they
could actually potentially write

756
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,480
for the goon show? 
These these were sort of like 

757
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,360
samples of what they could do. 
Would that be I'm? 

758
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,960
Fair in that way? 
I don't. 

759
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,320
I don't know. 
Because because we know that 

760
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,080
after the canal, which was the 
6th episode of series 5, Eric 

761
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,400
Sykes comes on board and shares 
script writing duties with 

762
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,040
Spike. 
So Spike, like you say, Spike 

763
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,080
was so busy, but he was 
obviously casting about for 

764
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,280
someone to come and help. 
Larry Stevens was out at the 

765
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,240
picture at this point, but Eric 
comes on board. 

766
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,080
I mean, I'm just wondering 
possibly just spitballing here. 

767
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,240
Maybe. 
Yeah, Galton and Simpson were 

768
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:12,440
were thinking, well, maybe we 
could, you know, we, maybe we 

769
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,400
could get a gig where? 
Could I? 

770
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:22,240
I had a feeling, having read the
scripts that that Gary has 

771
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:29,240
reading through them, they, they
are, they're goon shows in 

772
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:32,800
miniature and they are, they 
have all of the everything you'd

773
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,640
expect from from a goon show. 
But there's also, and I can't 

774
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,960
quite put my finger on it, but 
there is a, there is a Ray and 

775
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,560
Allen kind of house style feel 
to, to the way it's done as 

776
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,960
well. 
So the language and the the, 

777
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,280
some of the aspects of of each 
of these sketches. 

778
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:55,080
And I, I wondered if perhaps a 
pure goon show script might have

779
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,520
been too much for a midday Music
Hall audience who might not all 

780
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,760
have been fans. 
So maybe going with a pair of 

781
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,520
writers who have that, that 
common touch, that that ability 

782
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:15,560
to reach an audience in the way 
they did with Hancock, maybe 

783
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,440
that makes sense. 
Maybe a hybrid opportunity 

784
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,160
there, make it more accessible, 
I don't know. 

785
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,040
I'm just trying to think because
I'm trying to think of when 

786
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,320
Galton and Simpson have written 
for Sellers subsequently. 

787
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,080
Now obviously they did the 
script or collaborated on Buddy 

788
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:37,040
Brown Arm of the Law and they 
also wrote, I believe they wrote

789
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,320
The Spy with the Cold Nose with 
him in mind. 

790
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,480
But they they did, yeah. 
Yeah, but and of course there's 

791
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,240
the there's the episode that was
discovered of Hancock's half 

792
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:52,440
hour, the one that Sellers was a
late addition to which he he 

793
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,360
pretty much took on the the 
roles that Kenneth Williams 

794
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,800
would have taken. 
So in a sense, I suppose they 

795
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,120
would have had to adapt adapt 
that script for Sellers. 

796
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,960
Well now, Mr. Hancock, let's see
how you've got on with our 

797
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:10,000
intelligence test all. 
Right, all right. 

798
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,520
Well, you've managed to get just
over half of the little wooden 

799
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:18,240
blocks in the right holes, and I
got more in it from the Ameren 

800
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:18,960
chisel. 
Evan Brooke. 

801
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,840
Right. 
I'd love if he's just fascinated

802
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,920
to to, to, to know how he worked
with them or or what his 

803
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,200
relationship was was with those 
guys. 

804
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,560
There was a period of crossover 
as well, wasn't it? 

805
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,120
Because there was, I think in 
the missing Hancock's that that 

806
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,440
just recorded for a year 4 
recently, that there is that 

807
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,440
instance of of Spike walking on 
at the end of one of the 

808
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,440
recordings and going, Nope, 
wrong show and walking off 

809
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,120
again. 
And, and, and obviously Harry 

810
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,960
was in a few episodes. 
So yeah, no, maybe there was 

811
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,360
some misguided attempt to do 
some kind of crossover 

812
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,000
multiverse. 
Well, they've done a crossover 

813
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,680
earlier, Well, quite a few 
months earlier with Archie and 

814
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,040
Goonland, didn't they? 
That's right, yeah. 

815
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,200
So they're all kind of living 
out of each other's pockets at 

816
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,800
ALS. 
I, I think that's The thing is 

817
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,720
that they, it, it just shows the
collaborative practices of that 

818
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,280
group of writers. 
It's, it's, you get the feeling 

819
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,400
of how busy it was around, you 
know, in that, that small room 

820
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,800
of a small set of rooms above a 
grocery shop, you just got all 

821
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,000
this material churning around 
people running, you know, you 

822
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,000
get the feeling there's people 
dashing between doors saying can

823
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,000
you do this? 
Can you do that? 

824
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,520
The amount of, you know, if you 
like product that's coming out 

825
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,880
of that ALS group at that time, 
it's absolutely phenomenal. 

826
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,440
And yeah, I think, I think it's 
just a case of we'll, we'll, 

827
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,480
we'll pitch in and do. 
And that's how these sketches 

828
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,440
come to be. 
I mean, it's disposable, as you 

829
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,280
were saying earlier on about 
comedy being disposable. 

830
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,680
Midday Music Hall is a live 
program. 

831
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,240
It goes out on a Saturday at 
lunchtime. 

832
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:00,720
It's it's to amuse and nothing 
but to amuse. 

833
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:06,040
And so it's, you know, you get 
the feeling there will be a 

834
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,080
hierarchy of what's important 
and what's not. 

835
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,000
And this is just a quickie for 
Peter Sellers. 

836
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:15,160
Get it done, get it out. 
As opposed to a goon show which 

837
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,360
has to be crafted. 
Sure. 

838
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,600
So, Richard, you've explained to
the audience here, so you have 

839
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:29,440
performed one of these sketches.
Yes. 

840
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:36,280
So Gary contacted me, sent me an
e-mail asking would I, would I 

841
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,560
be available or interested in, 
in bringing one of these 

842
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,720
sketches back to life as part 
of, you know, the, in it 

843
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:49,160
marvelous talk he was giving at 
the, at the festival, York 

844
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:54,640
Festival of ideas. 
And yeah, I've, it's a no 

845
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:00,280
brainer for me, Absolutely 100% 
a golden, golden opportunity to,

846
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,760
to bring something like that to,
to life. 

847
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,600
It no longer exists and it 
hadn't been performed by anyone,

848
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,760
you know, since 1954. 
So and it's sellers centenary 

849
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,080
year. 
There's of course dozens of 

850
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,160
reasons why why it was right to 
do it. 

851
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,320
Can you give us a rough, rough 
precis as to what it's about and

852
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,120
what characters are in it and. 
Yeah, well, it's the the 

853
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,560
Sherlock Holmes. 
It's a Sherlock Holmes spoof. 

854
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,400
Sherlock Holmes in the case of 
the two raised fingers and it's 

855
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:38,080
it's spacing it out correctly 
for ABBC sort of script layout, 

856
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,960
non non full scap. 
It runs at about 11 to 12 

857
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:47,760
minutes on paper. 
So it's it's almost like a first

858
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,080
half of a goon show, you know, 
pre pre Max geldre or whatever. 

859
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:57,760
It's that sort of feel to it. 
So yeah, begins with the the, 

860
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,640
the the blood knock fanfare, the
love dot March, and then goes 

861
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:07,920
into, goes into an introduction 
and then, you know, in in 

862
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,640
typical goon share fashion, 
going to present a dramatization

863
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,160
of 1 of Conan Doyle's lesser 
known works. 

864
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,160
And then into the the, you know,
this sort of horror link that 

865
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,080
was always used in the goon 
show. 

866
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:25,680
And then, yeah, then taking up a
dramatic voice and it just goes 

867
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,960
from there basically with pretty
much I think 5 or 6 of the goon 

868
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,400
characters in there. 
So you've got Blood Knock, 

869
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,520
you've got Holmes, which I'll 
come back to in a second. 

870
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:42,560
You've got Blue Bottle, Eccles 
and Izzy which is an interesting

871
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,160
addition to the line up. 
Would that be the Lou voice? 

872
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,440
Yes, yeah, pretty much. 
I think the the way they they 

873
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,200
approached it. 
So there's there's all the 

874
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:57,640
familiar characters in there. 
And when, when Gary sent me that

875
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,600
the, the transcript he'd quickly
typed up of, of, of the sketch, 

876
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,520
it was, yeah, Sherlock Holmes 
speaking to Blood Knock. 

877
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,160
And I was, I was sort of going 
through it thinking which voice 

878
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,480
would Sellers have used for, for
Holmes? 

879
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,760
I was thinking he probably 
wouldn't have, would he have 

880
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,840
done an impersonation of Basil 
Rathbone? 

881
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:19,520
Would it? 
Would it? 

882
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:22,040
I thought mean grip. 
Pipe thin surely? 

883
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,880
Exactly that that was my 
instinctive thinking was this 

884
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,400
would be this would be old grip 
pipe. 

885
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,800
So George Saunders voice and 
then Gary sent me a photograph 

886
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,360
of the actual or scan of the the
original script and there it 

887
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,760
says Holmes brackets Sanders. 
So yeah, my instincts are right 

888
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,880
to to go with that. 
It's just it is it's it's very 

889
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,000
fast-paced. 
There are gags set up, delivered

890
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,840
punch lines, the whole the whole
works, but they're between 

891
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,480
characters. 
So Sellers working on his own, 

892
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,160
delivering the equivalent of 
Goon show type, pacing and 

893
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,200
timing. 
It's it's all there. 

894
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,520
So how he did it, it, you know, 
is, is that that incredible 

895
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:06,360
thing? 
We'll never know. 

896
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,600
And that's why it was a joy to 
perform it, you know? 

897
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:15,520
I'm trying to think, was it the 
early 6th series that they did 

898
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,080
that re recording of the 
threaded batter putting her in a

899
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,000
whisp spike wasn't wasn't well. 
Oh, that's right. 

900
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,360
Sellers had to do all his parts.
And of course there's the MEC 

901
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,080
Reiki Rising show, yes, where he
does all his Milligan's parts. 

902
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,800
So he's talking to himself in 
many of those sequences or 

903
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,160
scenes. 
But still, Even so, it must be 

904
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,720
difficult to remember who you 
are or who you're supposed to be

905
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,640
switching from one to the other.
And mid gag as well sometimes, 

906
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,280
you know, yeah, what 1 
character. 

907
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,200
It's, it's, it comes back to 
that thing of the the Goon show 

908
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,840
characters. 
You know, it's actors playing 

909
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,440
characters, playing characters. 
And in the same way Sellers is 

910
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,120
playing characters who are 
talking to each other. 

911
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,480
It's, it's, it's it's mind 
boggling that the amount of 

912
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,400
detail Ray and Allen would have 
had to have gone through, you 

913
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,160
know, that that they would have 
had to have considered the fact 

914
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,160
that this is for one solo 
performer. 

915
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,840
And to that, that must have been
an interesting process for them 

916
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,480
to go through as as writers as 
well, to figure out how they 

917
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:20,160
could do that, how they could 
make sure that those gags with 

918
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:24,320
could be delivered by one person
as one character and and reacted

919
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,160
to by the same person as another
character. 

920
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,960
It's Yeah. 
It's very cleverly written from 

921
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,000
that point of view. 
Come in. 

922
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,960
You'll find the mat under the 
key. 

923
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,840
Don't you mean the key under the
mat? 

924
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:46,520
No, it's a big key. 
Are you are you Sherlock Holmes?

925
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,920
Are you all from the gas 
company? 

926
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:54,120
No speaking. 
My name is Bludnock. 

927
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,080
Major Dennis Bludnock. 
Retired. 

928
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,840
Oh, when? 
Just before we went into action.

929
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,680
Would you care for a cigar? 
No, thanks. 

930
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,200
I've got one on. 
It doesn't fit you very well, 

931
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,760
does it? 
Oh, what can I do for you? 

932
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,600
A crime has been committed. 
Who did it? 

933
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,280
I've no idea. 
I'm sorry. 

934
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,880
I can't take the case if you're 
going to withhold information. 

935
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,480
Good day, Spraggle me, cockers. 
You don't understand. 

936
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,360
My house has been bungled. 
At the moment the the university

937
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,520
owns part of the collection. 
I understand. 

938
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,440
So tell me, tell me, tell me 
more about this this campaign in

939
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,160
it marvellous. 
Well, it's, it's the first of 

940
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,560
what I assume will be, will be 
several stages. 

941
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,880
So acquiring something like this
is, is a challenge. 

942
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:53,720
York is not a very old 
university. 

943
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,720
We've we've only just gone 
through our 60th anniversary. 

944
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,160
So we don't have the kind of 
deep pockets and endowments and 

945
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,080
large, large stacks of money 
substances that some of our 

946
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,520
compatriots might. 
So it's making sure we can raise

947
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,000
the money. 
It is not a good time to be 

948
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,120
trying to do this in higher 
education right now. 

949
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,240
Higher education financing in 
the UK is, is, is particularly 

950
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,720
bad. 
So this will be the largest 

951
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,600
philanthropically funded 
acquisition that York has ever 

952
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,640
attempted. 
It's, it's a big number. 

953
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:33,920
So the way we we've been able to
do it is that most of the 

954
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,480
collection is, is now owned, at 
least the physical items are 

955
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,600
owned by the university. 
There's a small amount which 

956
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,960
which amounts to the six series 
of Hancock. 

957
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,400
So, you know, blood donor lift, 
Bowman's, all that stuff is, is 

958
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,800
currently on loan to us, 
exclusively on loan to us for 

959
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,760
until this coming October. 
And after that point, that 

960
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:05,280
exclusive period goes and and at
that point, stuff could, could 

961
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,960
theoretically disappear off into
the ether and be sold. 

962
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,080
So it's really making sure we 
have the totality of everything 

963
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,600
to tell that story of of Ray and
Allen. 

964
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,520
Now, am I right that you're 
looking to raise something in 

965
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:23,560
the region of 30,000 lbs. 
That is, that is correct, yes, 

966
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,640
yeah, and. 
You've obviously got this 

967
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,600
crowdfunding thing going on. 
Yeah, yeah, we've got a 

968
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,920
crowdfund to go in that's that's
for 3000 because we didn't want 

969
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,520
to put the burden of a whole 
30,000 on the general public. 

970
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:42,680
I think one thing I find really,
really heartening is that we are

971
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,760
something like 60 odd percent of
the way there with with a bit of

972
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:51,280
time left to run and all of the 
donations are small numbers. 

973
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:56,720
This is 10 pound, 20 lbs 30 
from, from well over so far. 

974
00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:00,840
I think it's like 66 people as 
of today have donated that. 

975
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,760
And that just shows how much 
people feel about this, that 

976
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,720
people are chipping this in. 
It's not just one person that's 

977
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,560
interested in it and the rest of
the world isn't. 

978
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,680
This shows that there's a huge 
groundswell of people that, that

979
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:17,640
that, that love it and, and want
to ensure it, it survives and 

980
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,120
thrives. 
So I, I think that is a is a 

981
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:24,320
really lovely thing to see and 
it's worth doing. 

982
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,440
It's absolutely worth doing as 
well. 

983
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,240
I've got to say, when it comes 
to this as well, I've not not 

984
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:35,360
really said this, but I am I I 
too was brought up a goon bit 

985
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,760
like it was Richard was saying 
it, but with me it was my dad 

986
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,920
reading us the scripts. 
I was going to ask you that, 

987
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,320
wasn't I at the beginning. 
I've completely. 

988
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,320
Figured, yeah, it's all right. 
Yeah, my dad. 

989
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,280
So we used to go on like on 
holidays, me and my dad and my 

990
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,600
brother to get to give my mum a 
break and we go camping and at 

991
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,840
night my dad would, would, would
read Goon show scripts to us 

992
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,440
doing all the voices. 
As a one man performance, I have

993
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,720
to say Richard, you were 
boggling at how Peter Sellers 

994
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,200
could do it. 
I'd just like to know for the 

995
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:09,480
benefit of the tape. 
Richard did it is you did manage

996
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,400
to do that and you did it 
brilliantly. 

997
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,200
When you performed it, It was, 
it was incredible. 

998
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:18,800
Seeing the audience's face turn 
from amusement to slight horror 

999
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:23,120
to joy was a great trajectory to
go on. 

1000
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,600
So yeah. 
And I have noticed some things 

1001
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,960
in it as as a result of that 
excellent education. 

1002
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,400
So one of my favourites is Tales
of Old Dartmoor. 

1003
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,600
And there's a joke that I could 
I've seen in one of the in the 

1004
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,840
Gotton and Simpson scripts that 
turns up in Tales of Old 

1005
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:45,000
Dartmoor, which again, if it's 
not a particularly in a joke, 

1006
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,600
it's probably been rattling 
around the ALS officers for 

1007
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,080
yonks. 
But it's the one where they say,

1008
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,960
you know, he's heaving to well, 
don't just stand there heave to 

1009
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,840
back it. 
But that that's in one of the 

1010
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,000
Galton and Simpson ones. 
So that I think that's that that

1011
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,760
is interesting as well. 
But you know, that's a piece 

1012
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,240
that made it through later 
either, you know, by design or 

1013
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,680
by accident through to the the 
show itself. 

1014
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,960
Absolutely, Absolutely. 
I had that one on that that that

1015
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,200
script is on on standby. 
I spent about a week rehearsing 

1016
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,920
or just over a week talking to 
myself, rehearsing both. 

1017
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:21,240
But the script that Gary had 
sent me and then just as a sort 

1018
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:26,000
of a standby, you never know, I 
had to go the Kane Mutiny with 

1019
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,240
the sketch as well, which is was
brilliant. 

1020
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:32,120
And it was more or less just 
because I wanted to have a go at

1021
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:33,880
it. 
And there are so many more good 

1022
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,160
characters in that. 
You've, you know, you've got 

1023
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,200
Henry Crumb popping up and mini 
Banister, OK. 

1024
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,440
And but Humphrey Bogart and a 
bit of her and her and all of 

1025
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,520
that, there's so many in 
addition to all of the 

1026
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,080
characters that were already in,
in the, in the, the case of the 

1027
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,280
two raised fingers. 
Was it the fact there was less 

1028
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:57,880
of a cast of characters in in 
the Two Fingers sketch that you 

1029
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,520
took that or decided to do that 
one? 

1030
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:03,880
I think, yeah, that that was 
probably the the, the most 

1031
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,680
straightforward from the point 
of view of, of not alienating 

1032
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,080
the audience, you know, that's 
standing or sitting watching. 

1033
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,960
Some lunatic doing all of the 
different, different characters.

1034
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:20,200
It's, it's very difficult to 
translate that visually without 

1035
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:21,640
changing hats or something 
crazy. 

1036
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,400
But yeah, it's 5 characters I 
think. 

1037
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,520
Yeah, that's, that's manageable.
And again, with all the gags, 

1038
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,800
you know, I think in the Cane 
Mutiny, I, I, I think I'm right 

1039
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,400
in thinking there's a, there's a
sequence of gags that, that's, 

1040
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,560
that's shared between about 3 or
4 characters back and forth, 

1041
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,960
back and forth. 
And that that's, it's lightning 

1042
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,120
fast as well. 
And you've got sound effects to,

1043
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,840
to add to the mix. 
But yes, the, you know, the, the

1044
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,600
case of the two raised fingers 
was the one that Gary sent me 

1045
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:56,120
initially. 
And as soon as I had that, that 

1046
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,760
moment of, of this, he would 
have used Sanders for this. 

1047
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,960
He would have used George 
Sanders, Absolutely. 

1048
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,160
And then the confirmation it it 
that was the light bulb moment, 

1049
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,680
but but it was just nice to go 
through a a second one just for 

1050
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,680
just for kicks, really. 
It's just occurred to me. 

1051
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,360
It's just occurred to me. 
Two raised fingers has certain 

1052
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,200
connotations. 
Was that made explicit in the 

1053
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:23,720
actual sketch or not? 
No, I I don't think there's any 

1054
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:24,800
actual. 
You know, well, you know what 

1055
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,480
I'm talking about reference to 
that doing the two finger 

1056
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,640
salute. 
But yes, which obviously you 

1057
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,160
would not get away with. 
Well, you you wouldn't be able 

1058
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,480
to see it on radio, but you 
certainly wouldn't be able to 

1059
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,840
get away with doing that in in 
1950s light entertainment. 

1060
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,760
I, I also wondered because 
there, there are a few 

1061
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:45,200
references in that, that 
particular sketch to things like

1062
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:49,040
the ex, you know, good evening, 
ladies and gentlemen, ladies and

1063
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,480
ex strikers. 
And there had been a a bus 

1064
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,960
strike in London which had 
escalated to a dock strike in 

1065
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,800
London and then spread around 
the country. 

1066
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,080
There's a reference to. 
There wasn't and I know and I 

1067
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:07,200
know that because sorry to drop 
we covered the phantom head 

1068
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,960
shaver of Brighton several years
ago and I remember it was 

1069
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,400
written during the bus strike 
because of you know, took it 

1070
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,040
background in terms of what was 
going on in Britain at the time.

1071
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:17,560
So that's. 
Fascinating. 

1072
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,760
So there's that. 
There's a reference to I think 

1073
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,840
at some point Blood Knock says 
name your name, your figure and 

1074
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,680
George George Saunders or Grip 
pipe Holmes replies Jar Jar 

1075
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,200
Gabor and George Sanders at that
point is either married or 

1076
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:38,200
divorcing Jar Jar Gabor. 
So it so I wondered if the, the 

1077
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,800
two raised fingers thing was 
some reference to Churchill 

1078
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,520
perhaps that had something that 
happened, you know, like you're 

1079
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,440
saying around that time, because
you know, there's possibly, 

1080
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,560
there's plenty of different 
references that we, you know, 

1081
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,560
we, we can't get now that we're 
very current and topical at that

1082
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:55,880
point. 
We've just literally just I've 

1083
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,680
just put out a show yesterday 
covering the lost gold mine of 

1084
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,920
Shalot. 
There's a reference to Zsa Zsa 

1085
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,960
Gabor and the script for that. 
So very much in the in the 

1086
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:09,520
public consciousness around this
time. 

1087
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,720
Yes. 
OK, So Gary, I'll put a link 

1088
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,720
obviously when when the show 
goes out. 

1089
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:19,200
But if people want to contribute
to the, the innate marvelous, 

1090
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,200
the the the golden Simpson 
archive campaign, where can they

1091
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:24,000
go? 
What can they do? 

1092
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,760
Yeah. 
So there'll be a link obviously 

1093
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,760
to the crowdfunding page where 
you can, you can chip in penny 

1094
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:31,760
and mug. 
Thank you. 

1095
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,280
If anyone has any of the larger 
money substances are happy to 

1096
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,160
chat as well. 
Because once we've raised the 

1097
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,960
purchase price, which I feel 
more confident than I've ever 

1098
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,200
done, that we'll, we'll, we'll 
nail this. 

1099
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,560
We'll need to keep doing some 
fundraising because the next 

1100
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,640
thing is people want to use it 
and catalog it. 

1101
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,160
And so we'll have to get that 
out and available and do the 

1102
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:58,160
work then, not just to explore 
the stuff where we have raise 

1103
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,120
brilliant list of contents, but 
into the stuff where we don't. 

1104
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,880
So we can maybe find some more 
cool stuff. 

1105
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,680
And we'll look towards seeing 
where we can do digitisation, 

1106
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:13,800
where we can, you know, send off
the early videos or to get them 

1107
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,120
digitised and see see what's on 
them or, you know, get some 

1108
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,640
audio stuff digitised as well. 
So there's, there's, there's 

1109
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:22,920
always going to be more that 
we're going to need to do with 

1110
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,800
this. 
And that will be the next thing 

1111
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:31,040
is, is supporting the research 
and love and enjoyment and 

1112
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:36,360
pleasure that hopefully this 
this collection will bring and 

1113
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,600
help us to, you know, create the
links into other collections 

1114
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,760
and, and do so much more. 
So, yeah, drop, drop some money 

1115
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,280
into the crowd funder. 
That would be absolutely 

1116
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:46,600
brilliant. 
Like I said, most people have 

1117
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,880
been dropping relatively, you 
know, modest if you like an 

1118
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:51,920
amount. 
I think that's absolutely 

1119
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,680
brilliant that people feel they 
can do that. 

1120
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:57,240
But if anyone is currently 
sitting on a large pile of 

1121
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,600
money, we'd like to make it 
slightly smaller in a tax 

1122
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:01,800
efficient fashion. 
Give us a bell. 

1123
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:03,640
Well, surely to go. 
I'm just thinking, surely 

1124
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,240
someone like, I don't know, 
Robert Plant, Pete Townsend, 

1125
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,280
people like that. 
There's bound to be fans of 

1126
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,000
Hancock's Half hour. 
I know there will be, I know 

1127
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,080
there will be. 
And like I say, if they want to 

1128
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,880
give us a, give us a, give us a 
bell that I will be more than 

1129
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,640
happy to have a chat. 
I think it's as, you know, these

1130
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,760
people will be, I'm sure, more 
than happy to support. 

1131
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:31,280
But there's a there's a wall of 
people usually around them that 

1132
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,160
are doing their entirely correct
job of protecting them from 

1133
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,520
nutters like me who are begging 
for cash. 

1134
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,840
Obviously, Your Majesty, if you 
are listening, you know. 

1135
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:44,240
Oh. 
No, no, it'd be for the goons. 

1136
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,440
Only that he'd be putting his 
hand in his pocket. 3 goon 

1137
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,000
scripts. 
Yeah, that's true. 

1138
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,920
So 3 goon scripts there and. 
I'd be very, very happy to 

1139
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,880
perform them all personally for 
him if he wanted personal Royal 

1140
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,840
Variety Performance. 
Version with a knighthood thrown

1141
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,360
in as well. 
I'll settle for an OBE. 

1142
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:10,120
If he wants to do it in 
Barbados, we'll be even happier 

1143
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:14,480
to do that, yeah. 
I just wanted to ask you, 

1144
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:21,240
Richard, yes, no inference here,
but the state of the GSPS at the

1145
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,440
moment, do you agree or do you 
think that it needs to evolve in

1146
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:30,840
order to stay relevant? 
I, I think the, the, the problem

1147
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:38,720
the society has is in the sense 
that a lot of what the society 

1148
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:43,840
is, is about the, the performers
and the work that they did 

1149
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,600
together and separately is kind 
of all that's left. 

1150
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,640
None of the, the, the key 
performers are, are still 

1151
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,640
around. 
There's not an awful lot of news

1152
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,760
out there that's current and, 
and, and topical. 

1153
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,560
So I think there, I think we, we
do have to move to the times and

1154
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:06,440
come up with new ways of, of 
repackaging that material or 

1155
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:12,880
becoming, you know, maybe a 
channel through which things can

1156
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,440
be preserved. 
You know what one idea I'd I did

1157
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:21,320
come up with was if people did 
want to debate unusual 

1158
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,880
artifacts, if they have a script
somewhere and they're then 

1159
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,720
they're attic or the, you know, 
some recordings are very rare 

1160
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:29,440
and they want them preserving. 
I mean, we could become the 

1161
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:33,520
channel that would then, you 
know, pass, pass those items for

1162
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,560
deposit and care, you know, 
with, with the, with Gary at the

1163
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:41,200
Bothick Archives and that sort 
of thing would be, would be of 

1164
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:44,240
interest. 
I'd love to see the, the old 

1165
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:46,360
regional groups getting back 
together. 

1166
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:52,680
There was a, a muttering at the 
last annual gathering we had in 

1167
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,000
London that people would be 
interested in that. 

1168
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,560
There's quite a few, quite a 
clump of us in the, in the north

1169
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:00,720
there. 
There's been a lot of, you know,

1170
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,480
lot based in the South, but it'd
be nice to get some of those 

1171
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,160
regional meetings back, back 
together and people having fun 

1172
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,160
over a few pints and, and going 
through scripts and stuff like 

1173
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,600
that. 
But it's it, you know, people 

1174
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,000
are getting older, people are 
getting more involved with, with

1175
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,479
family or different things that 
they they're getting involved 

1176
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:22,120
with that take them away from 
the opportunities to do that and

1177
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:24,439
distance. 
But you know, we've got things 

1178
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,880
like zoom, we, we can join up 
worldwide with people if you 

1179
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,560
know, if, if, if the willingness
is there. 

1180
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,880
We, the last count we had a 388 
members. 

1181
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,359
This is big back in the 
beginning of June and that's 

1182
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:42,120
worldwide. 
So we've still got people in 

1183
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:48,279
Japan, America, Australia, Yep, 
New Zealand, you know, fans of 

1184
01:08:48,279 --> 01:08:50,080
the Goon show in that out 
outlying areas. 

1185
01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:54,359
It would be nice to keep that 
momentum going. 

1186
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:57,640
We had one of our members, a 
gentleman you've spoken to many 

1187
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:02,760
times, Mark Cousins popped up on
talking talking pictures TV on 

1188
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:07,319
their footage detectives or 
photo defectives program. 

1189
01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:11,200
And off the back of that, I 
think we had about 1010 

1190
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,399
inquiries, possibly some new 
people signing up. 

1191
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,920
So it would be nice by the end 
of the year to maybe get hit 

1192
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,600
that thousand level again or 
something like that. 

1193
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:23,160
But it it does need to, it does 
need some new blood. 

1194
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,960
I mean, I'm, you know, I'm 
secretary and and acting chair. 

1195
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,200
That can't last. 
I mean, I'm, I'm a busy person 

1196
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,120
myself and I've got things 
coming up which, you know, may 

1197
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,279
take me my attention off, off 
the society. 

1198
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:39,920
And it needs somebody who can, 
yeah, come up with new ideas and

1199
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:41,439
push the society in the right 
direction. 

1200
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:45,000
Yeah, By the way, Mark, Mark, 
Mark Mark did tell me that he 

1201
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:50,479
plugged Goon Pod, but they cut 
it from the broadcast. 

1202
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,640
The swine. 
I played bike read, I played 

1203
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,560
that's played bike read for 
anything really. 

1204
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:03,160
You kept Calypso particularly, 
but I mean The thing is right. 

1205
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,200
I I think variety is the thing 
and I found that this this 

1206
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:06,960
podcast. 
I don't want to. 

1207
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,440
I'm not trying to blow my own 
Trumpetly or anything, but for 

1208
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:13,920
this podcast I could not if it 
was just be talking about the 

1209
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,600
goon show week in, week out, 
different goon shows or 

1210
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,000
whatever, you know, covering 
goon shows, I would I would 

1211
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:23,600
quickly tire of it. 
So that's why I love to do you 

1212
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,440
know, sellers films or look at 
different wrinkles. 

1213
01:10:26,440 --> 01:10:30,720
Like last week we did a show on 
Peter Sellers and Irene Handel 

1214
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:32,440
and the relationship work they 
did together. 

1215
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:35,680
Just lots of variety. 
I just try and have as much 

1216
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:37,280
variety as possible just to keep
it fresh. 

1217
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,560
And I just wonder whether maybe 
the GSPS should, should you know

1218
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:44,680
the, the the quarterly magazine,
maybe it should have a four page

1219
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,960
article about Digby, the biggest
dog in the world. 

1220
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,200
You know what I mean? 
Just. 

1221
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,600
Yeah, little things like, I 
mean, Peter Ambling, our 

1222
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:55,840
magazine editor is, is a genius.
No way, no other way about it. 

1223
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,680
He's he's absolutely brilliant 
at what he he puts together and 

1224
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:03,640
and he will assemble, you know, 
something amazing for each issue

1225
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,960
and sometimes somehow manages to
to find things in, in little 

1226
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,240
archive boxes here and there 
that that have not, haven't 

1227
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,800
really seen the light of day in 
in our magazine before and bring

1228
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,200
it to the, the membership in 
that way. 

1229
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,880
And that, and he was the one of 
the spearheads behind the, you 

1230
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:25,080
know, the good news book. 
So yes, I think, I think he is, 

1231
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,680
he's trying to push the envelope
a little bit in that direction. 

1232
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,200
Yeah, you're absolutely right. 
I think that needs to be the the

1233
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,720
way ahead. 
I think the biggest wish thing 

1234
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:40,400
on my wish list, the biggest 
thing I could hope for other 

1235
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,800
than old shows being 
rediscovered and then some, you 

1236
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:49,320
know, generating some attention,
some media attention or getting 

1237
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,320
a fan base in it, you know, 
excited again about stuff. 

1238
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,920
The only other option I think 
was is to go back and re record 

1239
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,880
some of those missing shows, 
which I know to some people is 

1240
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,240
is heresy. 
There have been a couple of 

1241
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:05,560
naysayers on a couple of the the
Facebook groups and I completely

1242
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:06,880
understand where they're coming 
from. 

1243
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:11,880
But at the end of the day, if 
these shows are there on paper 

1244
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,640
and no other way of hearing them
than to pre record them, to re 

1245
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:20,160
perform them for a an existing 
audience and potentially a new 

1246
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,560
audience is is the way to go. 
It would be wonderful to see 

1247
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:28,760
something like that happened one
day and, you know, try and just 

1248
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,680
generate the same excitement 
that the missing Hancocks say 

1249
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:34,560
had over that sort of thing as 
well that that would be. 

1250
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,360
Just amazing. 
Well, I mean, not, not trying to

1251
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:41,880
take bread from your mouth, but 
give it, give it five years. 

1252
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:46,120
AI could probably recreate those
missing goon shows. 

1253
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,320
Who knows? 
Not that not that necessarily 

1254
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,040
you'd want that, but it would be
possible I'm sure. 

1255
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,480
Oh, absolutely, I think it's 
it's definitely going to be 

1256
01:12:55,480 --> 01:12:57,480
there. 
Now, whether the the gags would,

1257
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:02,040
you know, would would fit and 
work and the timing and 

1258
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,520
everything. 
But as AI develops and gets 

1259
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,520
better, that those those things 
will, will, I'm, I'm sure come 

1260
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:12,800
I've, I've, I've got a weird 
idea that one day somebody is 

1261
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:17,800
going to use AI to take a Laurel
and Hardy silent and make it 

1262
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,040
into a talkie. 
That to me is, is eminently 

1263
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:22,800
possible. 
I think that all the source 

1264
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:24,600
materials there, it could do 
that. 

1265
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,840
Again, some people would say 
that's heresy and, you know, 

1266
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,280
keep it pure, but it would bring
it alive in a in a different 

1267
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:33,680
way. 
It would just give that 

1268
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,760
opportunity. 
But I think I'd like, I'd much 

1269
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:43,320
rather have a natural, you know,
organic goon show performance, 

1270
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,600
you know, I mean, Dirk Mags did 
it so brilliantly with Goon 

1271
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:50,360
again. 
Yeah, to, to do something like 

1272
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:53,600
that would just be brilliant 
with the full orchestra, you 

1273
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:56,800
know, a, a live audience, just 
as it always used to be. 

1274
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:00,960
Just it's just a case of the 
having the somebody having the 

1275
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:02,880
the genius idea of doing it, you
know? 

1276
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,000
You'd need someone. 
You'd need someone at the edge 

1277
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,080
of the stage, though, having to 
to chip in and explain to the 

1278
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:13,080
audience who Gilbert Harding was
and what yes. 

1279
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:18,280
I suppose again, if if the, you 
know, if the various estates 

1280
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:24,760
involved were were willing and 
interested there, I suppose 

1281
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:30,280
there is an opportunity to maybe
just tweak a few of those gags 

1282
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,960
and make them topical for the 
day. 

1283
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,040
That's one option. 
Yeah, but I don't want to hear a

1284
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:37,720
goon show. 
Weird. 

1285
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,360
What's his name? 
Rylan, his name is. 

1286
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,680
I don't know, just jumping in 
and sorry. 

1287
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,720
It's, it's, it's interesting 
that because when we were 

1288
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,880
talking about Gotham and Simpson
earlier, they they have, they 

1289
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,080
weren't, they weren't precious 
about that. 

1290
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:53,720
And I think there's something to
take from that when we're having

1291
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:55,120
this, you know, having this 
chat. 

1292
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,640
So they redo the blood donor in 
2009. 

1293
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,000
It's got a script for it. 
And in that there's jokes about 

1294
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:06,480
like Adam Faith they go through 
and they rewrite in a new. 

1295
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:08,080
I think it might be Robbie 
Williams at the time. 

1296
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:10,080
They write in as as as the 
punchline. 

1297
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,360
Now, for some people who know 
the original, that's sheer 

1298
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,920
heresy. 
For others, though, that makes 

1299
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:19,040
that structure of that joke land
in a way that I mean, and 

1300
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,920
there's no way that I as a what 
was I like, you know, 910 year 

1301
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,480
old should know either who 
Sabrina is or who Gilbert 

1302
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:28,000
Harding is. 
But I did. 

1303
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,080
So, you know, in some ways it's 
a gateway to people learning 

1304
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,320
about these things. 
Not that not that I've had any 

1305
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:37,320
use out of knowing who Gilbert 
Harding is, but you know that 

1306
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:40,400
you can either, you can either 
keep it as sacrosanct and sacred

1307
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:42,520
text. 
So you can you can tweak it and 

1308
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,400
make the joke land. 
It's, it's, it's totally, it's 

1309
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,880
totally a call. 
And I think this is what I found

1310
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:51,360
really exciting about seeing 
Richard do these scripts. 

1311
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:55,520
We're seeing Richard making 
these choices and making these 

1312
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,760
decisions and going, OK, this, 
this, you know, this like you're

1313
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,840
saying, this is going to be 
ripped out, then this is going 

1314
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:02,840
to be George Sanders. 
And that's what you want. 

1315
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:06,800
You want all this stuff to be a 
living, evolving thing. 

1316
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,640
I think, you know, that's what I
would love to see is, is seeing 

1317
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,680
younger people come at these and
and suddenly make them, make 

1318
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:16,520
them new again because the 
structure of the humour is not 

1319
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,160
probably not changed all that 
much. 

1320
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,520
And you know, seeing if those 
tweaks like making a Ryland gag 

1321
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,320
lands, maybe it will. 
Maybe it'll just land as a 

1322
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:25,960
resounding thump. 
Who knows. 

1323
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:28,480
But you know, it is possible I 
guess. 

1324
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:33,080
My, my, my friend Gary, I tell 
you how it came up. 

1325
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,680
We were talking about something 
like this ages ago, I'm sure. 

1326
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:40,240
And he said something like, I 
don't, I don't want to hear. 

1327
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,440
I don't want to hear Blue Bottle
talking about twerking. 

1328
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,720
Oh, that is a funny idea though 
surely I. 

1329
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:56,360
Mean there was a point when we 
was building up towards we did a

1330
01:16:56,920 --> 01:17:00,640
quick technical run through 
rehearsal on the day for this 

1331
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:02,720
performance when Gary did his 
talk. 

1332
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:08,000
And there was a temptation for 
me to sort of suggest that maybe

1333
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,400
we could explain who Jaja Kapoor
was. 

1334
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,120
Maybe could explain there was a 
a bus strike. 

1335
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:17,920
But quite honestly, it would I 
think people would have been 

1336
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,360
baffled yeah, by by that 
description and it it would have

1337
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:24,480
made the jokes land any better. 
I don't think. 

1338
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:28,040
I think you've just got to you. 
Know, yeah, when I was when I 

1339
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:33,200
was, I don't know, 10 in the on 
the other side of the world, 

1340
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,560
watching repeats of the two 
Ronnies from the 70s. 

1341
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:41,040
I had no, no idea who Reginald 
Maudling was or, or what the EC 

1342
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:43,760
wine Lake or Butter Mountain 
was. 

1343
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:45,760
I, I didn't know what they were 
those things. 

1344
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:48,440
But you just, you just kind of, 
well, you know, you used to 

1345
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:49,560
accept it, don't you? 
And just. 

1346
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,400
It's like Lady Docker in, yeah, 
the dreaded battle pudding. 

1347
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:59,960
I as as a kid, you know, 1314 
year old at school, I had no 

1348
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:04,960
idea when they said Lady Docker 
and just mystified. 

1349
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:11,560
No gag at all in terms of no, it
was just of curiosity and I 

1350
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,720
spoke with I think my friend 
Mark and I was we mentioned it 

1351
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:18,400
to to our forum shooter, Mr. 
John G Cardinal Buchan. 

1352
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,080
It's a great name. 
And he said, oh lady, lady 

1353
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,320
Docker was married to Lord 
Docker and he had a scrap 

1354
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,680
business and explained the whole
thing. 

1355
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,400
And suddenly the context it kind
of. 

1356
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:34,920
So when I listen back to those 
shows now, I because I know 

1357
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:39,720
about the gag, it does, it does 
land a bit funnier, but yeah, 

1358
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,640
it's it's it takes somebody, I 
think who who was there and knew

1359
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,560
about it to to explain it 
sometimes. 

1360
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,080
Absolutely. 
It can either kill it or cure 

1361
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,400
it. 
And those those versions can 

1362
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:51,920
exist simultaneously, I think. 
I think, you know, they do that 

1363
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:54,480
with Shakespeare. 
Why not do that with Milligan 

1364
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:56,320
and Galton and Simpson? 
You know, they, they, they, they

1365
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:58,160
can't exist. 
I'm just going to think of 

1366
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:00,800
someone famous who's really bold
and I can't at the minute, but 

1367
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:05,960
I'm thinking again, the he's not
facing. 

1368
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,080
No, I was going to say for the 
kids. 

1369
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:10,920
I was just thinking Greg 
Wallace. 

1370
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:16,080
You know that Greg Wallace No, 
right, Oh God, no, But the joke 

1371
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:18,600
being, you know, just thinking 
of the tales of all Dartmoor 

1372
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:19,800
gag. 
You know, they've raised a skull

1373
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,000
and crossbones. 
No, it's a picture of Greg 

1374
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:25,240
Wallace with his arms folded. 
You know, it would something 

1375
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,280
like that would land and maybe 
that's the thing that could 

1376
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:27,760
happen. 
That's. 

1377
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:30,080
A perfect example, sorry to cut 
into that. 

1378
01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:32,960
I didn't know who when I first 
heard Tales of Old Dartmouth. 

1379
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:37,400
I had no idea who David Nixon 
was, but I worked out what the 

1380
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:39,680
gag was. 
He's saying yes, it's obviously 

1381
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:43,480
a very cadaverous, very thin 
man, possibly bald, with his 

1382
01:19:43,480 --> 01:19:45,480
arms crossed, looking like the 
skull and crossbows. 

1383
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,200
That's funny. 
Yeah, he's a great line. 

1384
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:49,920
He's a great line, yeah. 
Look at the flag. 

1385
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:51,600
He's flying the skull and 
crossbone. 

1386
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:53,400
Wrong. 
It's a photograph of David Nixon

1387
01:19:53,440 --> 01:20:05,400
with his arms falling. 
Captain is evening too. 

1388
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:07,280
Well, don't stand there. 
He's too back at him. 

1389
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,120
There are obviously just to say 
that there are three of these 

1390
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:14,680
scripts and and Richard has has 
been. 

1391
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:19,440
So I guess give my absolute 
tribute to Richard for the for 

1392
01:20:19,440 --> 01:20:22,120
the way he, you know, taking an 
idea that was generally one of 

1393
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:26,320
my after a couple of drinks on a
Friday night going we could do 

1394
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,200
this and and doing it. 
And it just been so brilliant to

1395
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,240
see it and hear it and right, 
right alongside him as he's as 

1396
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,920
he's done this. 
It's just been a complete joy. 

1397
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:41,520
And I really hope that the 
other, the other two scripts can

1398
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,040
can get their airing at some 
point as well. 

1399
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,840
It's, it's just been an absolute
joy and a pleasure. 

1400
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:48,960
So I always want to say thank 
you to Richard more than 

1401
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:50,800
anything else. 
Oh, thank you. 

1402
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:52,680
Thank you for having the crazy 
idea. 

1403
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:54,600
I mean, it's we, we need more of
them. 

1404
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:56,520
Drink more, drink more. 
That's. 

1405
01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:02,040
That. 
I, I definitely, you know, on 

1406
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,720
the basis of performing that one
script and on the basis of 

1407
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:06,840
rehearsing the, the, you know, 
the cane meet me sketch and 

1408
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:09,720
things like that. 
There's there's something about 

1409
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:12,000
being sellers. 
There's something about 

1410
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,480
performing those character 
voices that gets you. 

1411
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:21,280
And when I first did it in 2014 
professionally, you know, it 

1412
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,200
was, it was hard to leave it 
behind. 

1413
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,520
So doing it again in 2017 and 
then, you know, and, and doing 

1414
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:31,840
the, the lost Hancocks and all 
of these different productions 

1415
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:34,120
that have been involved in the, 
the sellers thing. 

1416
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:39,440
Just being able to have that, 
that sheer unadulterated joy of,

1417
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:44,800
of reengaging with a very 
unusual man that I've, I've read

1418
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,400
so much about in biographies. 
But to reengage with his 

1419
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:52,360
characters and the things that 
he created and to do to see them

1420
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:56,680
work their magic on, on a live 
audience, you can't get much 

1421
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:58,640
better than that in life. 
If I could do that for the rest 

1422
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:03,080
of my life, I would. 
So if, if that opportunity 

1423
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:07,280
arises where for for raising 
funds or for doing my bit for 

1424
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:10,640
charity or something like that, 
if if these scripts get another 

1425
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:14,320
opportunity to have a an outing,
I'm I'm there absolutely 

1426
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:15,920
wonderful do. 
You know what I'm going to do? 

1427
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:17,480
Mad idea already. 
I'm. 

1428
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:19,760
Shall we send them to His 
Majesty? 

1429
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,680
Let's. 
Leather bound, of course. 

1430
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,160
Leather bound. 
Leather bound, Yeah, actually 

1431
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:31,920
we've got, we have paper 
conservatives that can do book 

1432
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,120
binding. 
Yes, that could happen. 

1433
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,720
New plan. 
And there's all sorts of ways of

1434
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,960
making, making this material 
have a have a life and make it 

1435
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:45,920
positive, you know? 
Absolutely. 

1436
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:49,400
And and and all. 
All power to your elbow. 

1437
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:51,800
I'll tell you what, I've had 
trouble speaking tonight. 

1438
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:56,680
More power to your elbow. 
Both of your elbows, Gary, with 

1439
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,440
well both of you, but Gary also 
in particular with, with the, 

1440
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:03,960
the, the campaign and obviously 
we we all hope and trust that 

1441
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:05,640
everything works out. 
Yeah. 

1442
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:07,840
I was going to say an open 
invitation to everybody 

1443
01:23:07,840 --> 01:23:09,200
listening. 
Come and play, come and come, 

1444
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,600
come if you can come to your 
come and play and and use this 

1445
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:14,000
material and love it and enjoy 
it. 

1446
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:15,440
It's not, it's, it's there for 
you. 

1447
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,960
We're doing it for everybody. 
So do do that. 

1448
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:18,920
We'd love it. 
Absolutely. 

1449
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,000
And Gary, well, both you and 
Richard are on on Blue Sky. 

1450
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:26,440
We are so. 
Oh yes, a fellow fellow on on 

1451
01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:29,040
Blue Sky. 
So I just want to say thank you 

1452
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,120
both very, very much. 
I'm sure we will speak again and

1453
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:35,280
all the very best. 
Absolute pleasure. 

1454
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:35,680
Thank you.