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Have you ever heard someone 
being sick refer to as luggy? 

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Mmm. 
That's it was invented in the 

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50s by Spike Milligan. 
Oh really lug. 

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He's really yeah. 
Solar GE is the name of a 

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fictional disease from an 
episode of the Goon show. 

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He did with Peter Sellers as 
Spike Milligan Peter Sellers and

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Harry cecum. 
It was one of the one of the 

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joke storylines revolved around 
these two scammers, convincing 

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the government. 
There was a new disease called 

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luggy that they had to buy 
medicine for and that only they 

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sold man owed to have the 
cultural impact of something 

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making TV when there were three 
TV shows. 

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Oh man, well, this is even on 
the radio and the Goon show. 

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Oh yeah, yeah yeah, even them. 
Hello, and welcome to goon pod. 

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This is a podcast which asks, 
special guests to talk about a 

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comedy show stuffed with funny 
voices and catch phrases while 

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forbidding them from doing 
funny, voices, and catchphrases.

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That's the thing. 
Pierre. 

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A, there's the sort of an 
unspoken rule that people doing 

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bluebottle when Echols his stuff
strictly verboten. 

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Yeah. 
Okay that's fair enough. 

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Not even not even blood. 
Knock. 

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Okay well what can you do? 
But not, oh God, I'll think of, 

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I think about it. 
All right. 

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Okay so as you can as you can 
hear my guest this week I've 

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already named him. 
It is Stand-Up writer and 

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co-host of what I would call a 
suppose the thinking persons 

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podcast, but pod, it's it's PN 
of Ellie. 

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Hello Pierre. 
Thank you for joining me today. 

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My pleasure. 
Having me, anyone listening to 

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this show for the first time? 
So perhaps drawn to it, due to 

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the presence of Pierre. 
And why not? 

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Maybe you may be forgiven for 
thinking that it's just a 

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podcast about the goons which to
anyone under the age of 40 with 

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maybe only a passive interest in
British comedy might be doing is

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might make nothing but you know 
they may likely have heard of 

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Spike Milligan and Peter 
Sellers. 

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And yes it does tend to focus on
sellers in Again, a lot. 

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But what I like to do with this 
podcast, is to open it up and 

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talk about comedy in general. 
So, that's, you know, good 

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comedy, the bad comedy and and 
Hilda Baker as well, quite 

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often. 
So, yeah. 

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So, I'm Keen to talk to Pierre 
and not just about his affection

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for the goons, but also, you 
know, his wider comedy 

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influences. 
So am I right in thinking that 

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you've recently completed a tour
with with your podcast co-host 

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feel well, NG. 
Yes I was doing a section of 

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support for him and then so 
basically that my year has been 

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to support for filming in the 
spring, do some recordings and 

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performances of my show. 
Why can't I just enjoy things? 

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Then do a new show at The Fringe
and then Autumn tour the old 

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show again. 
Okay, so in the Autumn so visit.

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So what show is it in the 
Autumn? 

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Why can't I just enjoy snacks? 
Yes, yes. 

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Oh, that's what I'll be taking 
around the place all over the UK

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and Dublin. 
So it's a bit odd to have to 

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sort of is like an eight-week 
interlude where I'm working on a

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new different show and then back
to the old classics from from my

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Soho run january/february, but 
they were Brilliant. 

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Okay, okay. 
And during the a little sort of 

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the Preamble before I press 
record you touched on something,

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and I just want to bring this 
bring this up now because I'm a 

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little bit older than you 
Pierre. 

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I've, you know, I've been 
looking on Wikipedia and and fwi

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W it's quicker to say, for what 
it's worth, just bringing myself

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into this. 
Possibly that one of the 

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biggest, if not the biggest 
turning Point in my life, okay? 

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My life changed irrevocably in 
the last week of January 1991. 

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All right? 
Okay. 

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And I believe that, that was the
beginning of your life in that 

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week. 
Was that right? 

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Born January 91. 
Yes. 

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Okay, okay. 
No, because that's when I left 

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New Zealand, which is where I 
was born and brought up and I 

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flew to Belfast to live and and 
sort of I completed my schooling

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over there and that was. 
And that was really my 

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introduction to the UK. 
When I was 16 and I've with a, 

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with a brief year going back, 
I've lived in the UK of a sense 

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and my life completely changed 
and it was such a, when you 

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someone from outside of the UK, 
but who kind of, I guess you're 

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the same. 
You feel you're partly British 

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because of its your family's 
Heritage when you actually come.

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Here. 
And it's you're in this kind of 

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weird Middle Ground where you're
sort of absorbing the culture in

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a detached fashion. 
Would you say? 

86
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Yeah, they, you're sort of your 
sort of halfway there but but 

87
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halfway not, they've got a 
category for you. 

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That's not the same. 
If you were from even from the 

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USA, it would be different. 
Hmm. 

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You're seen as sort of Family 
but extended family. 

91
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You're like my kind of my cousin
because you're sort of, you 

92
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know, anglophone white Empire 
Vibes, but also you're still 

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different and we still don't 
like you at sports. 

94
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Yeah. 
It's family that you only really

95
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:09,600
want to see it Christmas. 
Yeah. 

96
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Not even, not even then. 
Yeah. 

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Mmm, because you were born in. 
Of course, you were born in 

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Johannesburg. 
Yes. 

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And I believe he moved to the 
island men. 

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When you were what, six seven? 
Yeah, just before I turned 7, 

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so, sort of birthday quite soon 
on arrival. 

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I don't know how you found the 
sudden reversal of the seasons, 

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but I had a summer birthday in 
South Africa and then I depths 

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of winter birthday and in the 
UK. 

105
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Yeah. 
Just right. 

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Because I was, I was it was 
middle of summer. 

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January 91 got on a plane in 
Christchurch arrived, eventually

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in Belfast. 
And it was snowing, it was eyes 

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on stalks basically. 
Yes, exactly. 

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And I think, what's often 
strange, if you are an 

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anglophone, white Colonial for 
want of some sort of better term

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is that, you are foreign to the 
UK more than you imagined when 

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you weren't there. 
So, in Africa, if you speak 

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English and are white, even if 
you have a name, as European as 

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mine, you know, piano Delhi. 
You are referred to as an 

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Englishman and you would 
describe yourself as an 

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Englishman and you're not, but 
you sort of are. 

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And and you all your reference 
points for Britain or England or

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whatever they're accurate. 
They are true. 

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But there were no flee out of 
date. 

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They're very old-fashioned. 
Oh yeah. 

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You've got but they just William
books, or whatever in your mind.

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And everyone's like you watch 
Teletubbies, I fuck you talking 

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about. 
Well, that's it because in, in 

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Christchurch, which is the 
biggest big city to where I grew

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up, people used to say it's 
like, it's like England, but 30 

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years ago. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
You know and yours yours would 

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have been a more clear time 
travel analog because obviously 

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South Africa. 
So so mixed up with with 

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different languages and cultures
that I mean parts of the English

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that I spoke were loanwords from
Afrikaans a couple of from Zulu 

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even. 
Not well, God, where you just 

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sort of go, is that not saying 
for that here and even your 

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English is out of date. 
I mean, when I moved in the late

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90s and I was a little kid, I 
didn't realize in the UK where 

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they they colored a utility 
room, you know, they're washing 

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machine and stuff. 
Yes, I was saying scullery, 

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right? 
That's the word friend. 

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South Africa's people were like 
scullery this Downton Abbey 

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vocabulary for the Suburban 
home. 

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Very strange. 
Yeah, and what about your accent

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because mine? 
I always, I was considered where

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I grew up, which was a small 
town. 

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I was considered Posh. 
Yeah, I was considered the Posh 

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kid because my mother bought me 
up to talk relatively properly, 

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you know? 
Yes. 

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And as since I've been living 
over here 30 plus years, my 

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accent has changed. 
Definitely become more. 

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I guess. 
British the, the more abrasive 

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edges have been chiseled off. 
What about your accent because 

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You don't sound, I can hear it. 
But you know it's I don't want 

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to sound defensive but the South
African accent gets a bit of a 

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bad press for being a bit quite 
quite coarse and grating 

155
00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:17,800
Weatherly. 
This is the thing is that often 

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when people say like oh, he's 
got a strong accent, what they 

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00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,500
mean is he's off recants. 
And that's not even the same 

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ethnic group as me. 
So it's a bit like someone 

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00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:32,200
going, you know, sort of talking
about a Scottish person and 

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saying, oh, he's English 
accents. 

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Really strong, not like yours. 
He's sitting over again of us a 

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minute. 
You clearly know they can't hear

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the difference was. 
I could tell you my question, I 

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00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:43,800
asked British people when they 
say that, as I say, they say, 

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oh, I've got a South African 
friend at work or whatever, and 

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he's got a really strong accent,
not like yours. 

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00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:50,300
And I say, okay, does your role 
is ours? 

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And if they say yes, I do rise 
Afrikaans, that's why. 

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00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,700
That's my little test. 
So, I've had to develop that it 

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00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:00,200
mind changes. 
I mean, sometimes there's not 

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00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,100
even a trace of it, and people 
can't tell at all at least, so 

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they say, and sometimes. 
So they're testing some sort of 

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fire alarm in my building, just 
in case. 

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00:10:10,100 --> 00:10:12,500
Okay, this happened is a test. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:13,900
Well, this is the way I want to 
go. 

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00:10:15,700 --> 00:10:19,400
And sometimes people say, oh, 
it's so strong and did a that it

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00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,200
changes. 
I mean, because we're speaking 

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00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,700
now it'll be much less than if I
speak to my parents. 

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00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,900
It's a to my cousins or if I go 
back I mean it comes roaring 

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00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:28,700
back full strength. 
I don't know if you find that 

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00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:31,000
with with other kiwis. 
Yeah. 

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00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,500
I was back in January actually 
and I don't go bad very often 

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00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:36,800
had to go back for a funeral. 
No, I'm sorry about that. 

184
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,500
It was expected. 
But but yeah, well my because I 

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00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:45,400
always sort of, as I say a kind 
of compared to my siblings and 

186
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,400
whatnot. 
I had a, my accent was always a 

187
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,900
bit all the way I spoke was 
always a bit highfalutin. 

188
00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:54,000
Yeah, I mean, so so, but funny 
enough when I went to Belfast So

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00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:59,200
I was 16 and I went to this 
school, this new school and and 

190
00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:03,400
it was very early 90s. 
So Australian soaps were all the

191
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:08,600
rage and I thought II can I 
could use this to my advantage 

192
00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:10,300
because they don't know the 
difference between Australian 

193
00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:14,300
accents and kiwi excess call. 
So so I for a time, I was 

194
00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:20,400
putting it about two, maybe 
stupid girls that I had been the

195
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,100
act of the original actor that 
played Hayden and Home and Away.

196
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,600
The one that got Got one got 
sacked in the first two weeks. 

197
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,500
No way that because other know 
where to check. 

198
00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:30,000
No internet. 
Yeah. 

199
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,300
And the accent just to then the 
X and just sounds the same. 

200
00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:37,100
Yeah, why not? 
I mean, I got accused of being 

201
00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:39,500
Pasha, a great. 
I had a thick Isle of Man accent

202
00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:42,700
for about three or four years 
and because I really do ya. 

203
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:44,900
Got ya really, really serious 
one. 

204
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,300
I was accused of being partial 
up because, obviously, in South 

205
00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:52,100
Africa we have long as, you 
know, castle and grass that in 

206
00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,300
the UK, especially up north 
Northern England, which the Isle

207
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,500
of Man culturally is that that's
very high. 

208
00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:01,600
Falutin that's very Posh to say 
to say castle and grass that 

209
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,800
have castle and grass. 
Yes. 

210
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,700
Yes. 
So then take, they don't, they 

211
00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:07,300
weren't too pleased about. 
That was, I didn't know what 

212
00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:12,100
Posh really meant because class 
in the UK, you know, we could 

213
00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:15,500
talk for their Thousand Years 
about class but it's not just 

214
00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:18,400
money or Wayne Rooney would be 
Posh and he's not, he's got 

215
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,700
plenty of money. 
It's rights of other secret 

216
00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:27,200
rules hidden things, your name. 
So, it's French, French Italian.

217
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,400
That's exactly how did that come
about? 

218
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:35,700
I was on my dad's side, the 
Italian part moved to South 

219
00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:41,800
Africa in the late late 1800s. 
I think they they they moved on 

220
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,700
mass with another family. 
Well presumably Italy was in 

221
00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:49,300
chaos at that point, who knows? 
But mmm. 

222
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:52,400
So they move this, that's the 
Italian sort of paternal line 

223
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,400
thing. 
And then the French name, my 

224
00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,600
grandmother was Afrikaans and 
there's a lot of French names in

225
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,000
South Africa because the 
afrikaners essentially a mixture

226
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,100
of the Dutch people from the 
1600s, but a lot of low 

227
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:11,100
countries French Protestants, 
the huguenots from France. 

228
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,900
Hmm, and that's why I like the 
South African sports teams are 

229
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:18,000
always got, you know, Francois 
duplicity and Andre so-and-so 

230
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,600
and a few years and As well. 
So it's quite common. 

231
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:23,500
Okay. 
Okay. 

232
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,900
I had been vandevelde on last 
year. 

233
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,400
Oh yeah, you know, bed and he, 
he said to me, you know, you 

234
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,000
should get Pierre on and he 
said, he said that one of the 

235
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,000
things that sticks in his mind 
about you as it you used to say 

236
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:45,100
that whenever you saw a you kept
or I suppose it laterally, a 

237
00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:49,500
brexit party slogan, all 
campaign or or party political. 

238
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,600
First you always imagined many 
Bannister crying little girl 

239
00:13:52,608 --> 00:13:56,100
murdered in our beds. 
Yes, that's exactly right. 

240
00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:59,500
I tweeted that once and I only 
about four people got it but 

241
00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:02,900
they really got it. 
Well, I suppose the modern-day 

242
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:06,100
equivalent of that is Helen 
Lovejoy from The Simpsons. 

243
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:07,700
Yes. 
Think of it. 

244
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,800
Like anyone, would anyone think 
of the children? 

245
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:16,100
Yeah, the powers that be have 
decided to actually increase the

246
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:19,500
size of fishermen's meshes 
thereby. 

247
00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:23,900
Juicing their income by 40%. 
That's what you do here. 

248
00:14:24,100 --> 00:14:35,900
That's why we're going. 
That's it, I've had no idea. 

249
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:38,700
As I said Ben Van de Velde. 
Who was a guest on the show. 

250
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:44,000
He obviously, highlighted to me 
that you were quite keen on the 

251
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,200
goons and a vet and the couple 
of months ago, and I must have 

252
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,500
been, I don't know whether you 
were interviewed on. 

253
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:53,700
Something or I had a Spate of 
people messaging me, you know, 

254
00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:56,700
listens to the show saying, why 
don't you get Pete try and get 

255
00:14:56,700 --> 00:14:59,300
piano Valley on? 
Yeah, I mentioned the goons on 

256
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:00,800
something. 
I can't remember. 

257
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,900
Okay, I always always mentioned 
them whenever there's the, the 

258
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:07,600
inevitable question about 
influences or First comedy or 

259
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,800
something like that. 
Yeah. 

260
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,200
So they're always popping up in 
in in what I, what I churn out 

261
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:22,000
for publicity, see, it's fair to
say, most of my Because I'm, I'm

262
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:27,500
still in my 40s just, okay, most
of my guests are around my sort 

263
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,500
of age that people in the 40s. 
Late 30s, 40s 50s. 

264
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:35,400
You know, and most of them were 
too young to have heard the 

265
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,000
goons first time round but they 
got into it through parents 

266
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:44,200
through the dead. 
Usually, you know, and I'm just 

267
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,400
wondering, you know, it was it 
was it, your dad was it was it 

268
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,200
your mum, even? 
How did you How did you discover

269
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,700
the goons? 
So when we moved to the Isle of 

270
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:59,200
Man I sort of maybe I actually 
ended up turning seven before I 

271
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,500
started school but in South 
Africa. 

272
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:03,900
You start school when you the 
year, you turn seven. 

273
00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:06,500
So I've never been to school but
I was coming in three years late

274
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:08,500
to the British system right 
away. 

275
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:11,500
I had to get pretty keen on on 
the library and I did. 

276
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:16,400
And the first book I read from 
the port, Aaron tiny local 

277
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,500
library, on the Isle of Man was 
a horrible histories book. 

278
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,100
About dark nights and dingy 
castles. 

279
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:25,900
That's what it was called. 
And so this library is very old 

280
00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:32,000
school, small sort of Village 
Library, and at some point, I 

281
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000
sort of came to the attention of
the librarian. 

282
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,900
When I was there with my mum, 
and I was looking at some 

283
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:41,900
cassette tapes. 
That's which is how early 90s 

284
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,400
this the library story is. 
Yeah. 

285
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:46,900
And they have this kind of 
shelves of cassette tapes, you 

286
00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:51,500
could take out and the librarian
said, oh those all of those are 

287
00:16:51,508 --> 00:16:54,400
the goons my my husband loved 
them when he was a kid. 

288
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,600
And I remember that interaction 
and I remember that was when I 

289
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,200
took them out of the library to 
get these goon cassettes by 

290
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,000
coincidence and I don't think my
dad had mentioned that but my 

291
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,200
dad and his brother would listen
to the goons. 

292
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,099
When they were young in South 
Africa, they would listen to the

293
00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:17,400
international edits on the World
Service sure which were removed.

294
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,500
They removed all the topical 
stuff because it would have just

295
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:22,099
been gibberish. 
Yeah. 

296
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:25,200
Well they remove topical stuff 
and also later on because It 

297
00:17:25,208 --> 00:17:28,900
would, I won't bore you with the
details, but there was a second 

298
00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:32,400
set of edits if you like. 
Yeah, if you want in the 60s 

299
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:37,300
where they removed, a lot of 
racially insensitive stuff. 

300
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:40,400
Yeah, I think that must have 
been what the ones they were 

301
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,100
hearing. 
Especially if there was an early

302
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:44,000
early to mid 60's. 
But yeah. 

303
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,500
So I came home and my dad knew 
what they were all about, and my

304
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:50,800
Uncle Allen as well. 
My mum stepbrother, he was a 

305
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,100
huge fan of the gun. 
So whenever I saw him, I would 

306
00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:55,000
torture him by talking to him 
about the Goons. 

307
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,500
A weird little nine-year-old or 
whatever. 

308
00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:02,900
Yeah, but I just kind of sast 
and I definitely listen to 

309
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,600
everything that the cassettes 
and the library had to offer. 

310
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:14,000
was this the first comedy you 
would really exposed to then I 

311
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,200
was sort of aware of Comedy 
through TV and the sense of like

312
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:25,400
The Simpsons or likes of sitcom 
a kind of kid stuff and my dad. 

313
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,700
I don't know if my dad at that 
point had introduced me to the 

314
00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:29,300
Pink Panther. 
So I sort of knew who Peter 

315
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:33,300
Sellers was or I would have 
found out through the Pink 

316
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:38,100
Panther quite soon after not 
sure that it's definitely the 

317
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,900
first comedy that I discovered 
on my own or felt like I had 

318
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:45,600
some ownership of it. 
And what was it about? 

319
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,900
Can you, can you remember? 
Was it just the funny voices, 

320
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:50,300
was it? 
When you can't say, it was the 

321
00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,300
tightly plotted storylines, but 
what was it about? 

322
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:54,900
What was it about it? 
The sort of caught your 

323
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,000
imagination, the silly voices, 
obviously were great. 

324
00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:03,100
And also just the fact that 
like, a lot of the comedy in the

325
00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:05,700
goons is quite Looney Tunes. 
I mean, you don't have to be too

326
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,500
old to understand the fact that 
it's it's very silly that you 

327
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:14,200
know the telephone sounds like 
bagpipes or there can't be 

328
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,300
anyone at the door because you 
just let them in, you know, the 

329
00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:23,000
absurdism of it's very very very
digestible for kids more so than

330
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:28,200
some sort of like high-faluting 
satirical shown might be Sure. 

331
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,400
Yeah but I just got upset. 
I mean I listen to this things 

332
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,700
till they wore out. 
Yeah. 

333
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,400
Can you remember the first one 
you heard for show you how it I 

334
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:43,100
think. 
I think it was Napoleon's piano.

335
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,500
I was looking for a man who 
might specialize in piano 

336
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,400
robberies from the Louvre good 
evening. 

337
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,200
You are looking for a man who 
might specialize in piano 

338
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,300
robberies from tile roof. 
How do you know I was listening 

339
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,900
on the radio and I heard you 
say, sit down. 

340
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:04,800
No, thank you. 
I'm naked God come Two glasses 

341
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:11,700
of English Port. 
Type cooking Sherry we have a 

342
00:20:11,708 --> 00:20:15,300
gorilla. 
No thanks I only smoke baboons. 

343
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:18,900
Good job. 
Yes baboon show. 

344
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,600
Thank you thank you. 
And now back to the prom yes 

345
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:30,200
this piano we must steal is the 
one Napoleon played at Waterloo.

346
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,400
Stay here. 
That will be a very sticky job. 

347
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:34,000
Why? 
It's just been varnished. 

348
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:43,100
The German joke. 
Yeah, the English silence and 

349
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,600
say what to do, then go up. 
Because obviously, this was from

350
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,100
the library. 
These were tapes from the 

351
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:48,200
library. 
Yeah, there's that. 

352
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,300
There's only a finite number of 
commercial releases out there. 

353
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,600
Did you, did you go on to sort 
of try and I mean, they were 

354
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,900
repeated the word repeats in the
90s on Radio 4 on the radio to. 

355
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:02,500
But did you do any budget? 
You have you really came of age 

356
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,600
in the late 90s, didn't you? 
Yes. 

357
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,100
Oh so were you trying to Source 
shows elsewhere as well and get 

358
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:14,500
as much stuff as you could? 
I sort of I didn't quite 

359
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:17,500
understand that things were 
available in other places and I 

360
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:21,200
mean the Isle of Man is a very 
small place and so I sort of 

361
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,800
very early on not quite 
accurately accepted that like oh

362
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:29,500
you know, You take what you can 
sort of find locally in these 

363
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:33,800
small shops or whatever. 
So yeah, I thought it sort of 

364
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,700
didn't until I was older and to 
be fair, I mean I was very 

365
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:42,800
computer literate from a young 
age but stuff like YouTube and 

366
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,200
even a lot of the more venerable
goon show sides. 

367
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,400
Especially with regards to audio
clips and stuff. 

368
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,700
They weren't really up and 
running till I mean YouTube 

369
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:56,000
2005. 
So there's a gap of a few years 

370
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,500
there, but once I realized, oh 
my God, you know, these things 

371
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:03,000
are on the these things are on 
the iTunes store. 

372
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:05,700
So I would like buy them there, 
of course. 

373
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,100
Yeah. 
So I'm going to, I don't want to

374
00:22:07,108 --> 00:22:09,100
keep banging on about your age 
compared to mine. 

375
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:11,600
But yeah. 
I'm a generation older than you 

376
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,200
so. 
So it was it was much more 

377
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,200
analog back in my day, you know,
in terms of just had to wait for

378
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,200
it to turn up on the on the 
radio and get your cassette tape

379
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,600
and tape it. 
Yes. 

380
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,500
And was it like did this then 
open you up to did you then go 

381
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:32,900
looking for other comedy and 
maybe radio comedy on cassette 

382
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:35,400
or did it like, python for 
example, did you seek out 

383
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,500
python? 
Oh yeah. 

384
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,700
I mean not, I don't even know if
consciously but they're not. 

385
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:43,200
Yeah massive obsession with 
python very, you know, evolution

386
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,900
of humor naturally followed. 
I was always a big fan from 

387
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:51,400
whenever I first came across him
somehow of Eddie Izzard who also

388
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,200
is a big goon. 
You know, nut. 

389
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,700
And actually you know that's 
another Contender early first 

390
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:01,700
listeners Phantom better, 
putting her lab Excellency of 

391
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:04,300
course, right? 
Okay, this is our desire, grew 

392
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:06,700
up and Excellence here, then yes
he did. 

393
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,600
Yes. 
So yeah, Monty Python and then 

394
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,900
is a man, just generally 
becoming a lot more aware of 

395
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:20,300
stand up at that point. 
Oh, the sketch shows that were 

396
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:22,600
on TV and this is the this is 
the naughties we're talking 

397
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,600
about in the UK. 
So It was the boom time for 

398
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,400
sketch, shows, Mitchell and Webb
Armstrong and Miller and then 

399
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,600
you got Peepshow, blah, blah, 
blah, blah, all the great stuff 

400
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,500
and then just getting really 
into stand-up through sort of 

401
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:40,400
satellite TV and now YouTube you
really coming to the fore in 

402
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,400
terms of finding clips of stuff 
yet, Kevin's family Nichols. 

403
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,300
Your faithful old. 
Hairy English tummy, 10 years 

404
00:23:59,300 --> 00:24:02,700
you've waited here rather than 
dissipated last order. 

405
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:05,400
I gave you. 
Stay here till I came back. 

406
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,000
I said to him, he waited alone 
in the desert. 

407
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:12,400
He never wavered from his duty, 
he kept the name of servitude, 

408
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:17,900
shining, bright heckles, 
hackles, you upheld the flag. 

409
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,000
You will ever question the 
order. 

410
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:24,500
You stayed out here alone you 
without Food and water. 

411
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,300
You will have money you without 
anything to stop. 

412
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:32,700
You walking away. 
You you idiot. 

413
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,600
What what? 
What me? 

414
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,700
An idiot. 
Let me put this ball in town. 

415
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:41,900
I'll tell you what interests me 
about the goons is that every 

416
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:45,900
single person involved in the 
Goon show was ex-military or 

417
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:48,300
World War Two veteran, to some 
degree. 

418
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:52,500
Yeah. 
And the thing you find 

419
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,500
especially in humor from as 
close to the to the wall as 

420
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:03,400
possible is that it is 
completely acceptable to make 

421
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,000
fun of the idea of major blood 
markers, and avaricious, 

422
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:10,900
egotistical coward, and all the 
sort of privates not wanting to 

423
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:14,600
get out of bed and do things and
they may be feeling a bit lazy 

424
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,700
or they don't want to, you know,
people getting blown up and 

425
00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:19,600
stuff it's all completely 
acceptable because it was Not 

426
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,000
just real to these guys, but 
these guys were conscripted so 

427
00:25:22,008 --> 00:25:27,500
they didn't want to be there. 
And when I was growing up, a lot

428
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:30,300
of you know I mean my because of
the law in South Africa under 

429
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:33,600
apartheid there was conscription
and you know, if they if you 

430
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,900
didn't just go along and suffer 
for nine months, doing jumping 

431
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:39,200
jacks in the bush. 
They'd stick, stick you in jail 

432
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,700
for a few years and ruin your 
life. 

433
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:43,800
So people just need it whether 
they wanted to or not. 

434
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:47,400
And so, I grew up around, you 
know, family friends. 

435
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,500
My dad, a lot of people who'd 
had to do military service who 

436
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,600
didn't want to and they had lots
of jokes that were very similar 

437
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:59,500
and what I find now is that The 
more and more your military 

438
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:03,300
becomes volunteers and so forth 
with risk getting slightly 

439
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:06,800
American in that kind of you 
know the military is sacred. 

440
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,600
And God forbid, anyone should 
tell any funny jokes about it, 

441
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,700
kind of territory But the irony 
is that I've Got Friends in the 

442
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:15,400
military or her ex military and 
they tell all the same jokes but

443
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,600
it's sort of panicked civilians 
who are desperate to level this 

444
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,100
kind of To my mind, very 
American sort of sacral respect 

445
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:30,000
on our brave boys and so on and 
look, there's an element of 

446
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,600
that. 
That is true and is necessary 

447
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,400
and is good. 
But I think that's something 

448
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,200
that's so interesting about the 
goons is that you could never. 

449
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:41,100
It would be a lot harder to do 
jokes about the military in that

450
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:43,100
way. 
Now partially, because we're 

451
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:45,700
slightly getting a bit American 
and sacred about it, but also 

452
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,100
partially because look, the 
public have no idea what a drill

453
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:50,400
sergeant is. 
They don't know anymore. 

454
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,300
Tester a tree and with, I mean, 
even you know, some mothers do 

455
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,000
know it ain't half hot mum. 
Yeah. 

456
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,500
Yeah. 
I mean the drill sergeant sort 

457
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,300
of character in that that only 
worked because 50% of the 

458
00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:08,100
population, all the men at some 
point had been bullied by a guy 

459
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:09,500
who looked and sounded like 
that. 

460
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,500
Absolutely right. 
That's that's it because if you 

461
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:17,000
look in the 50s into the 60s, 
and into the 70s, as as with it 

462
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,200
ain't half hot mum British 
films, British TV, it was full 

463
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,300
of Military-based comedy and the
martyrs as well just the army 

464
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:27,900
sketches. 
Well yes, it's in the 60 in the 

465
00:27:27,908 --> 00:27:30,300
50s, you've got carry on 
Sergeant, which is the first 

466
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,500
carry on Phil. 
You've got the army game, which 

467
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:38,800
is what have itv's first 
sitcoms, and yeah, python Graham

468
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,400
Chapman dressed up as a general 
coming on and saying, welcome 

469
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,000
on. 
This is, does it become do silly

470
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:57,500
Over a silly silly silly, right?
Get on with it, get on with it. 

471
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:00,500
The, the camp drill sketch with,
they're all doing very sort of 

472
00:28:00,508 --> 00:28:03,700
Camp theatrical, drill. 
Yes, absolutely. 

473
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:07,700
And, and yeah, so many so much 
of it was because like you say, 

474
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:11,100
people grew up or people, you 
know, many of that generation 

475
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,800
had served and and you and and 
if they hadn't served during the

476
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,400
war, they're done national 
service, until it was abolished.

477
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:21,600
Yeah. 
And and I had a guest on the 

478
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,800
writer Christopher Douglas last 
year and he made an observation 

479
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,800
which I thought was very very 
Interesting about 50s British 

480
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,400
comedy or British comedy in the 
50s. 

481
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:39,500
He said it was that generation 
of comics. 

482
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,400
It was it was the only decade in
British comedy that didn't 

483
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,200
really have officer class 
comedy. 

484
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,300
Yeah, and I went to, I don't 
want to sound embarrass you or 

485
00:28:53,308 --> 00:28:56,700
anything, but you, you were, you
vice president of Footlights or 

486
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:01,200
president Footlights? 
Which I was I said I said, okay 

487
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:06,400
but yeah, obviously if we get 
into the 60s of late 50s into 

488
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,300
the 60s, you've got cook and 
more and yeah Bennett and 

489
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,600
Jonathan Miller. 
And then of course, Python and 

490
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:16,900
subsequently not the, nine 
o'clock news and all that sort 

491
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:23,200
of the the the Oxbridge comedy 
that that kind of dominates 

492
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:25,600
British comedy for. 
Well, it's still. 

493
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:30,300
Do you think it still does to 
this day or any sort of No, no, 

494
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:34,300
you're treated like a bit of a 
bit of a weird Relic. 

495
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,600
If people find out you've done 
it, right? 

496
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:45,500
There's some people still around
the last big hurrah refer to 

497
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:50,200
sort of Oxbridge e style 
comedian. 

498
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,700
I don't know, I mean Simon, but 
it is between us and I was like,

499
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:55,900
well yeah, Mitchell and Webb. 
But they're Mitchell and Webb 

500
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:58,400
there. 
Yeah, they're sort of mid 90s, 

501
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,500
graduates. 
It's Simon bird a bit later and 

502
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:06,100
these days, if you see anyone 
who went through Footlights 

503
00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:10,600
little, because there are, there
are, there are stand up like, 

504
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,800
like Phil Wang, or I hear Shah. 
And they're sort of not not what

505
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,100
you'd expect from Oxbridge in 
the sense that they had, you 

506
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:24,200
know, they non-white or they 
from a more working class or 

507
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,400
lower middle class background 
State educated. 

508
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,500
Like, I hear, And people are 
often surprised to learn that 

509
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:32,600
those guys, huh? 
Those guys are Oxbridge because 

510
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,300
you know and I had zits just 
Stephen Fry being churned out 

511
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,100
like a robot like thousands of 
times. 

512
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,200
Yeah. 
Well yeah, I suppose in the 80s 

513
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,300
you had the more red brick 
University like the emails and 

514
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:46,100
oh yeah. 
And elton's and whatnot. 

515
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,000
But do you think it's cyclical? 
Do you think that, The the 

516
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,600
Oxbridge comedians will rise 
again or is it is that dead now?

517
00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:01,200
I think it would be cyclical in 
the sense that Cambridge even 

518
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,000
since I was there has massively 
upped its proportion of state 

519
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,700
school students and generally to
be honest, the kind of kids who 

520
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,400
go there who are attracted to 
Comedy especially these days. 

521
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:19,800
They don't tend to be the sort 
of, you know, Sebastian tufton 

522
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,500
types as much. 
Chaz, you think, Hmm. 

523
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:25,600
The ones who sound pasha's? 
Tend to be the guys who you find

524
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,500
out are the sons or grand Sons, 
or daughters or granddaughters 

525
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:36,000
of like, a proper sort of 70s 
love. 

526
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,600
He's, you know, yeah. 
From London. 

527
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,600
So their passion the sense that 
they're kind of artistic 

528
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,200
establishment, but they're not 
Parshin, the sense of owning, 

529
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,200
you know, land or horses or 
something. 

530
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,300
They, they their passion the 
That they are connected. 

531
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:55,300
But they tend to have parents 
who spent all their money on 

532
00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,300
tantric dreaming courses in the 
80s or something, you know. 

533
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:02,600
Okay. 
Yeah. 

534
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,200
So that's it's quite a mix. 
I think it'll come back purely 

535
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,800
because slowly, but surely 
Oxbridge is, is becoming very 

536
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,400
representative or much more 
representative. 

537
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,000
It's going to take awhile that 
at the change that going in 

538
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,200
15-20 years. 
They'll be some massive 

539
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,400
Resurgence. 
Yeah, yeah. 

540
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:23,000
So, when did When did you decide
that you wanted to take on 

541
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,100
Comedy as a career? 
I was talking to a guy who used 

542
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:32,500
to be a member of the sketch act
called the pain who they are. 

543
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,400
A rare example of the slightly 
more stereotypical Footlights 

544
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,800
success from from Recently, 
they're sketched double act. 

545
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,900
Now they've been sort of rent 
Radio 4 Series. 

546
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:44,100
They did a West End run. 
Sort of very classic silly 

547
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:46,300
sketches anyway. 
They used to be a trio and I was

548
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:51,000
talking to one of them in second
year and he said, The nice thing

549
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,600
about the student gigs at 
Cambridge, was that we had 

550
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,300
professional comedians would 
come and host them, because we 

551
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:00,500
would the, the student bars 
would offer them, you know, gig 

552
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,000
level money hundred hundred 
fifty quid, and it would be a 

553
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,900
young audience. 
And so I met when I was still a 

554
00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:11,700
student I met and, you know, 
nitish Kumar said gamble, James,

555
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:15,500
a Caster, who, you know? 
Now that's a very famous list of

556
00:33:15,508 --> 00:33:19,700
people but back then it was just
some guy, but they would tell me

557
00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:23,100
like, No like this, this is our 
job, you know, we do this, this 

558
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:25,900
you can get money like this. 
And this is how you do it and 

559
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,300
blah blah blah. 
And I was saying to this guy, 

560
00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:32,000
oh, I might give that a go 
actually and he said, well, 

561
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,900
obviously, and he said it with 
such contempt, like, it was such

562
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:39,200
an obvious thing to say, like it
said something stupid that I 

563
00:33:39,208 --> 00:33:39,900
went. 
Oh, that's good. 

564
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:42,500
Actually, that's, it's actually 
quite a vote of confidence, 

565
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:46,100
isn't it? 
And I annoyingly in my stand up.

566
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,600
I sometimes use quite weird 
imagery and languages and stuff,

567
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,600
and I'm getting a bit weird as I
get older, but because my 

568
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,100
stand-up had to pass muster in, 
you know, nightclubs or working 

569
00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:59,000
Men's Clubs, or comedy clubs or 
whatever you can't. 

570
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,800
I always felt like I couldn't go
to strange and you don't see as 

571
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,000
much of that vein of humor that 
was so influential on me in my, 

572
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,699
a lot of my output. 
Yeah, I did do it. 

573
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,400
A lot of sketch shows. 
I've done maybe four or five 

574
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,300
hour long sketch shows. 
One of them was the Footlights 

575
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,300
to a show, and whenever I wrote 
sketches, the Goon side would 

576
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:23,900
come out a lot more with sort of
surrealism or physical 

577
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:27,699
absurdism. 
Or just general silliness. 

578
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,400
And and I brought a bit of that 
in. 

579
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,100
I think, when I was a writer for
spitting image, the recent 

580
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,000
Revival, right? 
Yes, yes. 

581
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,500
And so, when I was writing 
sketches for that, I tried to 

582
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:42,300
bring in a bit of that silliness
with. 

583
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:47,699
I pinched some sketch that it 
didn't get made, but it was, it 

584
00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:53,900
was back when The pope was 
getting all these ridiculous 

585
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:58,900
reassurances from Xi Jinping 
about Christians in China. 

586
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:01,300
Being treated very nicely and 
religious minorities. 

587
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:03,200
Generally being treated nicely 
in China. 

588
00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:08,700
Yeah and it was the sketch, the 
pope went to G jinping's, you 

589
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:12,600
know, Chinese medical medicine, 
sort of parlor. 

590
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:16,800
So these like fake treatments 
that aren't real kind of thing. 

591
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,300
Like that being the angle. 
Yeah, and I sort of worked in a 

592
00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:22,200
lot of silly sort of bawdy humor
there. 

593
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:24,600
I think I was too detailed a 
pitch. 

594
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,400
It's a lot easier just to do a 
sketch where The Rock has a 

595
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:31,900
fight with Billy. 
I'll assure something. 

596
00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:37,500
I think more appealing. 
Yeah, head did you weird because

597
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:41,500
I had L Mariano. 
Yeah, the show and he wrote some

598
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,000
stuff for spitting image of 
course. 

599
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,700
And He was writing in fact, I 
think it's I think it's are now 

600
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:49,500
for a live spits. 
Spitting image. 

601
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:51,300
Yes, involved with that West 
End. 

602
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:54,000
No, no, no. 
That's above my pay grade. 

603
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,800
I was one of the I was 
insensitive. 

604
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,600
The the face, the faceless 
Legion sort of levels of writing

605
00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:04,900
for the TV show, writers room 
stuff. 

606
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,100
Al Al was in the upper echelon. 
He was he was in the officers 

607
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:10,800
mess. 
I think it was on in Birmingham 

608
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,700
for a bit to knock it together 
and then at some in the West End

609
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:17,400
now and they're obviously, I all
sympathy for them because they 

610
00:36:17,408 --> 00:36:19,900
have to keep updating it because
things keep happening to Boris 

611
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:22,500
Johnson. 
Gosh, if it works. 

612
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,700
It seems like that's complete 
week ago, it was all over the 

613
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:28,900
news that Seems like it's 
completely forgotten now. 

614
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, it's the time of 

615
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,600
recording. 
I mean, we had this terrible 

616
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,300
tragedy with the submarine. 
Yes. 

617
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,900
But that's, that's taken up the 
column inches. 

618
00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:43,300
But, yeah, the news just adjust 
24-hour rolling. 

619
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:47,400
News, is both a blessing and a 
curse I think. 

620
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,100
Yeah, on the society. 
Yeah, yeah. 

621
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,100
And it makes topical writing 
easier and harder because things

622
00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:58,600
can be shockingly relevant but 
they like Like like fruit in hot

623
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,800
weather that go off sooner. 
Yes. 

624
00:37:01,900 --> 00:37:04,000
Yeah. 
And getting back to the gun 

625
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,800
show. 
I mean that was what people 

626
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,300
forget and you mentioned it 
yourself because your your dad 

627
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:13,700
and your uncle would listen to 
her but it was edited. 

628
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:17,900
So all the topical stuff was was
taken out and so I because I 

629
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:21,900
started this podcast couple 
years ago and you know we're 

630
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:28,600
very lucky now in 2023 that we 
have access I say we go in fans 

631
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:33,700
have access to Pretty much 
pristine restored. 

632
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:37,700
Yeah, shows with all the editor 
stuff, put back in. 

633
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,100
And so I'm slowly working my way
through the shows and, and 

634
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,200
listening to stuff that I hadn't
heard, you know, when I listened

635
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,200
to the editor chosen, I was much
younger. 

636
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:50,700
So, lots of references to 
topical. 

637
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:54,000
You know, things that are in the
news in the 50s and Milligan in 

638
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,400
some ways was a, you know, you 
could, you could argue can make 

639
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,300
an argument that he was without,
you know, one of the biggest 

640
00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:02,700
satirist. 
The 50s just in terms of 

641
00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:07,000
particularly satirizing, things 
like, you know, the 1984 

642
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,100
television broadcast, which 
three weeks after that was shown

643
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,900
on BBC television. 
The goons did a parody of that. 

644
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,100
Yeah. 
And there were lots of 

645
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:19,100
references to politics that were
removed. 

646
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,200
Yeah, it's specific references 
to Churchill at Lee. 

647
00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:25,400
Yes, the the Phantom head 
shaver. 

648
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,100
They had a Churchill and 
actually jerk. 

649
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:30,300
Yeah, that's right. 
Absolutely. 

650
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,000
And And and very often these 
were removed. 

651
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,100
It's for me sometimes the most 
interesting thing about 

652
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:40,700
listening to these restored gun 
shows is the stuff that's been 

653
00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:43,000
put back in. 
Even if I don't understand the 

654
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,900
context. 
Yeah you know, I mean when they 

655
00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:50,400
did The Phantom better, putting 
her learned Excellency, this, 

656
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,400
that's some line and it was, who
would be, who would be walking 

657
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,200
at, who would be walking a gas 
oven along Cliffs at this time 

658
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,800
of night or some question like 
that. 

659
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,600
And I think henrique run 
suggests goes lady darker you 

660
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,400
know. 
Yeah. 

661
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:09,800
And I had to look up lady darker
no or a darker and she is this 

662
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,800
sort of scandalous socialite. 
Yeah that's right. 

663
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:15,500
And as a comic hearing that joke
I mean the audience lose their 

664
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:21,100
minds for it it gets up. 
That really sharp crack of of 

665
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:24,700
laughter that, you know, you 
know, when you've really hit and

666
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:26,300
so I thought well, it must be 
good. 

667
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:29,500
Whoever lady dog, listen to 
them. 

668
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:33,000
Yeah. 
References to people like 

669
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:37,800
Mortimer wheeler and our what 
was his name? 

670
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,600
The rudest man in Britain, I 
can't think of his name now, get

671
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,300
the bug, me listeners. 
Will know who I'm talking about.

672
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:47,100
But yeah, references to people 
like that. 

673
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:56,700
Which Slade the audience of the 
day and has that Sabrina 

674
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,800
Sabrina. 
Yes, I had no idea who that was 

675
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,300
when I was a kid and I imagine 
my surprise as an adult where I 

676
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:10,200
finally think well who is that 
and it's sort of a busty glamour

677
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,400
model, I've no idea. 
Well yeah but it's kind of like 

678
00:40:16,100 --> 00:40:19,300
it's a had to say this discreet 
Only kind of like to traffic 

679
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:22,800
cones under a jumper, isn't it? 
You know, it's really weird. 

680
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,100
Yeah, but this the idea that the
whole time as a kid, I was 

681
00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:31,500
listening to like, you know, God
what's his name? 

682
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,300
It's a Hercules grip pipe thin 
and his reality. 

683
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,500
Yeah Moriarty when he says you 
know great great Sabrina's / 

684
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,700
Tutors or whatever. 
It's just like No And Sabrina's 

685
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:50,100
measurements. 
Yes. 

686
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:51,900
A pristine AKO Sabrina's 
measurements. 

687
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:54,300
Yeah. 
Yeah had no idea what the hell 

688
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:56,000
they were on about. 
I was just happy that it was 

689
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,700
funny. 
Gibberish so Christie 

690
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,100
measurements. 
It's Sabrina hits me with my 

691
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:12,300
arms folded. 
And Gilbert Harding. 

692
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:15,800
That's always think someone 
someone that one of those people

693
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,100
that was all over everything in 
the 50s and completely forgotten

694
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:21,700
today. 
But now the thing with the 

695
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,500
references, this is the thing 
that really bugs me in modern 

696
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:28,200
comedy as a writer, is that 
these days and I think it's 

697
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:34,200
because to be fair to them 
producers and The people who 

698
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,000
make shows everyone's freelance.
Now, nothing's really done in 

699
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,500
house and no one is secure. 
So they're all terrified of 

700
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:45,500
losing, their completely 
temporary contract and, you 

701
00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:49,700
know, fair enough. 
But all of these references that

702
00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:52,200
I was listening to that, I 
didn't necessarily get. 

703
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,700
I still learn from them. 
They still made me smarter and 

704
00:41:55,700 --> 00:41:58,800
the same with the Simpsons 
referencing, George h.w., Bush 

705
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,600
or that Nixon and the future 
armor or or whatever. 

706
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,000
It's how you learn. 
Earn, you understand the world 

707
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,400
through comedy that you don't 
understand. 

708
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,800
Because, you know, it's funny. 
You can hear it getting a laugh.

709
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,400
So you think we laugh? 
Yeah. 

710
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:12,300
Absolutely. 
It's such a Gateway. 

711
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,700
It is, it makes you actually go 
out and again, in my day, go to 

712
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:20,100
the library or now go on, just 
Google it. 

713
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:23,900
You know, ask someone and be 
part of the world, where is now 

714
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:29,000
A lot of not all, but a lot of 
producers, a lot of people 

715
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,600
involved in this stuff, have an 
imaginary idiot in their head 

716
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,800
that they used to edit with and 
they sort of go. 

717
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,000
Well, I've imagined a very, very
stupid person and they don't get

718
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,900
that so we can't do it. 
And you think is that really the

719
00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:46,400
best way to produce good stuff? 
I mean it's helpful if you're 

720
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,000
trying to make something that is
accessible to everyone and 

721
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:52,700
there's a place for that but I 
don't think you can hit the same

722
00:42:52,700 --> 00:42:55,800
artistic Heights without Some 
standards. 

723
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,800
Yeah nobody you can't make a 
reference to rash Aman because 

724
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,500
an 18 year old and Lester won't 
know what regimen is? 

725
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:06,900
Yeah, I only know what 
restaurant is because of The 

726
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:08,700
Simpsons. 
There you go. 

727
00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:10,900
Yeah, that's one of the last 
jokes. 

728
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:13,800
I laughed at in The Simpsons are
because I was quite late. 

729
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,100
Period citizens. 
That that and with I wanted this

730
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:19,800
is a question. 
I always ask guests about the 

731
00:43:19,808 --> 00:43:20,700
goons. 
Okay? 

732
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:25,800
So when you're listening to the 
shows, And we get, we get the 

733
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,900
real intent and the next Calgary
numbers. 

734
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:31,500
Did you, did you listen to those
or did you skip, did you fast 

735
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:36,400
forward as a kid? 
Hmm, unless they particularly 

736
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:39,500
something about them? 
Got me like old man, the way he 

737
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:41,900
sings Old Man, River. 
And one is quite energetic and 

738
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:44,600
fun. 
Hmm, I would fast-forward as a 

739
00:43:44,607 --> 00:43:47,500
kid, but as an adult, when I was
old, I would listen to them 

740
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,400
because they're, yeah, they 
themselves were quite 

741
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,900
interesting. 
And by that point when I was a 

742
00:43:52,908 --> 00:43:58,200
bit old, I'd gotten a lot more 
into jazz and blues and so I 

743
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,400
sort of thought. 
Wow I imagine that. 

744
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,400
And in fact from my foot lights 
here, Phil Wang. 

745
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,500
Jason Forbes and George four 
acres. 

746
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:07,700
They were sketch Trio called 
Daphne. 

747
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,300
And they made to series of a 
radio comedy for radio for 

748
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:17,500
called Daphne, sounds expensive 
and because Jason is Forbes who 

749
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,900
you could get on. 
This was also a big fan of the 

750
00:44:19,900 --> 00:44:26,100
goons, they had a an announcer 
like, like greenslade with a 

751
00:44:26,107 --> 00:44:28,800
booming voice and they had some 
live band involved. 

752
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:31,000
Mhm. 
So there was a direct reference 

753
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,800
against, yeah. 
So it's wrapping a bit. 

754
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:35,200
Yeah. 
Well, I always think because, 

755
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,600
yeah, I used to skip very often 
but sometimes I'd like what The 

756
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,300
song it was but you think now, 
you know, people like Keith 

757
00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:44,100
Moon. 
John Lennon they would they were

758
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:45,700
teenagers. 
Yeah. 

759
00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:50,000
Thirsting to this, as it went 
out, you know, show some 

760
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,400
respect. 
Listen, listen to it. 

761
00:44:54,800 --> 00:45:02,300
I always, I've always been had a
bit of an issue with the so, 

762
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:05,100
whenever there's a documentary 
about whoever it may be 

763
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:11,700
Milligan, generally, Or all the 
goons and they want to show a 

764
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:13,700
clip or Play a clip of the Goon 
show. 

765
00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:17,600
They always tend to play the 
same clip which is the what time

766
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,800
is it Eccles? 
Yes, clip and I really Tire of 

767
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,800
that. 
I think that's that's hackneyed.

768
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:28,700
It's horri, you know. 
And you know, doing it sort of 

769
00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:32,200
put you on the spot here. 
But is there is there a sequence

770
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,800
not necessarily bluebottle 
nickels. 

771
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,000
But is there a sequence that is 
really dear to your heart? 

772
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:42,000
That you think would make a 
great example if you wanted a 

773
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,300
two or three-minute, little clip
to play to someone to sort of 

774
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,200
illustrate the goons is that, is
there something? 

775
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,100
Is there a clip that you would 
suggest? 

776
00:45:52,100 --> 00:46:01,700
Let me see, I'm a big fan of. 
I'm, a big fan of major blood 

777
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:07,300
knock, I find him really funny. 
But I guess it's quite 

778
00:46:07,300 --> 00:46:13,700
contextual isn't it? 
Well very often with him the the

779
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,800
whenever he's introduced as oh, 
here's a Zone theme tune for 

780
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,800
start his own intro music and 
and then you usually get about 

781
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,100
30 seconds of explosions to 
denote flatulence mmm. 

782
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:31,500
And that's actually when I was a
kid. 

783
00:46:31,500 --> 00:47:10,000
I just thought 
No wonder, I can't go to parties

784
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:21,100
anymore. 
It's no good sir. 

785
00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:23,000
We've got to increase the 
premium on your underwear. 

786
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:30,400
What was that gun show one? 
Was it the mummified priest? 

787
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,000
Or whether they could try and 
find the tomb of Genghis Khan? 

788
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:39,400
That's the Lost Emperor. 
Oh that's right. 

789
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,700
It's definitely a bit in that I 
would like ideally I would play 

790
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:50,400
people just like a little Mm, a 
montage of the little jokes, 

791
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,500
like I've just looking it up 
here. 

792
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,300
So in The Last Emperor, just 
lines like Moriarty saying, I'll

793
00:47:57,300 --> 00:47:58,700
give you something to make you 
talk. 

794
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:01,900
Take that and it's Egan says a 
pound note. 

795
00:48:01,900 --> 00:48:05,000
I'm English money won't make me 
talk, I'll just point. 

796
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,100
I love that how consistently 
they have jokes about, you know,

797
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,400
the honor of the English and 
then just he's asleep. 

798
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,000
Right? 
Well that that's an interesting 

799
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:22,600
show as well because because 
bike was always pushing and 

800
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:28,400
pushing to get as much into the 
show that he could that would 

801
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,100
get that would get would be 
under the radar of the sensors. 

802
00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:35,700
Yeah the made the BBC sensors 
because so that you know the On 

803
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:38,200
knows that they were dead a 
character called Hugh jumped in,

804
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:44,600
which was rhyming slang and and 
and you know, even things like 

805
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,700
blood knocks. 
Yeah, farts. 

806
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:51,700
And all the rest of it but 
there's a few goons shows where 

807
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,100
it's alluded to that grip. 
Pipe thin is gay. 

808
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,600
Interesting. 
Yes sort of oily oily voice. 

809
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,200
Yeah. 
Yeah I think it's in the Goon 

810
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,500
show scripts book. 
That was obviously written in 

811
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:08,500
the 70s. 
That Milligan makes it clear 

812
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:11,400
that grip pipe is gay, but 
obviously in the 50s you know 

813
00:49:12,500 --> 00:49:16,700
you couldn't be quite so blunt 
and but in the in the last 

814
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:23,300
emperor show there's a bit where
Echoes us guarding grip pipe in 

815
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:25,800
Moriarty and he's got the music 
pointing a gun at them. 

816
00:49:51,100 --> 00:50:01,300
Do you know any more like this? 
Here's one. 

817
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:17,900
Oh yeah. 
Quite right? 

818
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:21,000
Was he to get the right feeling?
It was close your eyes. 

819
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:30,900
If I close my eyes, I won't be 
able to see you. 

820
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:51,300
Will you miss me? 
Yeah, yeah. 

821
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,500
I mean I was amazed actually 
I've just remembered another 

822
00:50:58,500 --> 00:51:03,200
reference where It might be the 
episode where they just, they 

823
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,800
finally coin and distribute the 
term lurky and they're in 

824
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,400
Parliament or some episode. 
Where the joke is that 

825
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,600
Parliament is full of sort of 
useless old duffers. 

826
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,500
Yeah. 
And there's a sort of than, 

827
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:19,800
like, coughing and stuff. 
And then someone makes some very

828
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,300
slow belabored Point, that's 
very obvious. 

829
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:26,000
And then some one of them shouts
as a sort of MP in the 

830
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,300
background. 
A lot of our table boys at 

831
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:33,900
mafeking, which Yes, which is a 
boa War reference. 

832
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,000
Yes, it's most astonishingly 
Niche. 

833
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:45,300
Certainly these days reference 
to make well because Milligan 

834
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:48,800
was born in India. 
It was cool Sandy's, not South 

835
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:53,200
Africa, but, but he was born in,
you know, the height of Empire. 

836
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:55,400
Yeah. 
And grew up reading these boys 

837
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,500
own stories. 
And well, I mean hearing all 

838
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:00,100
this. 
Yeah, the only reason that I can

839
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:02,800
do just Jokes about South Africa
or being South African or 

840
00:52:02,808 --> 00:52:07,500
anything in the UK is because to
a lesser extent, but still to a 

841
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:10,100
massive degree. 
The British public have 

842
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,900
relatively high level of 
knowledge, high level of 

843
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:15,900
interest in former former 
colonies. 

844
00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:21,400
Whereas, I could not do stand-up
about South Africa or Notions, 

845
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,300
or stereotypes of thoughts about
South Africa in America or even 

846
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:28,300
Canada. 
They just don't know anything. 

847
00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:30,800
They just as far as your kit as 
far as they're concerned, you 

848
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,400
might as well just be from 
Mozambique or Peru. 

849
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,000
They just got they've got no 
frame of reference for you 

850
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,300
whatsoever. 
They don't know any have no 

851
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:43,100
expectations, if you're lucky 
they've seen Blood Diamond so 

852
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:48,800
are you would you say that your 
Glass half, empty kind of person

853
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,000
in terms of you. 
I'm not saying you're a 

854
00:52:52,008 --> 00:52:57,300
misanthrope, but a you generally
looking at the, you know, the 

855
00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:00,900
the seamy underbelly of life 
rather than looking for the 

856
00:53:00,900 --> 00:53:06,400
positives. 
I am quite dissatisfied person 

857
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,600
but I think that that's, that's 
crucial if you're going to keep 

858
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,500
creating because the second that
you're satisfied, I think the 

859
00:53:14,500 --> 00:53:20,000
new sort of go well. 
I've done it now. so, I think 

860
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:27,500
I'm yeah, I sort of I really, 
really enjoy some very specific 

861
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:31,000
things or under certain 
conditions but by and large Jama

862
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,700
but a bit dissatisfied but I 
still do. 

863
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:40,200
I think I think it's better to 
enjoy things aware of the de 

864
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,800
satisfying elements rather than 
to ignore or discount them and 

865
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:46,900
and enjoy them under a sort of 
false flag. 

866
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,600
Chill feels more and more 
meaningful. 

867
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,300
So when people are coming to see
you, you know, in your next to 

868
00:53:56,300 --> 00:53:58,100
her with, why can't I just enjoy
things? 

869
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:00,000
Yeah. 
What are they going to be 

870
00:54:00,700 --> 00:54:02,900
expecting to see? 
How do they gonna see? 

871
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:08,700
I would, I would say if I'm, if 
I'm a grumpy on misanthropic, 

872
00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:12,600
it's only in a sort of John 
Cleese Fawlty Towers. 

873
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,600
He sort of way of a frustrated, 
man, trying to do his best, as 

874
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:21,600
opposed to a - man. 
So yeah, they'll see. 

875
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,200
Some do see some stuff. 
They agree with him. 

876
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,800
And at the end of the show, I 
answer the question, so if 

877
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,100
that's of interest and then 
they'll get an answer. 

878
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:32,900
So do you guys know the phrase? 
It's always the quiet ones. 

879
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,400
Good phrase. 
Yeah, useful phrase. 

880
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:39,100
So let's say you have two 
colleagues Alan and Susan, 

881
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,800
Susan, and Alan. 
So you have two colleagues Susan

882
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,500
and Alan, let's say you go into 
work one day and someone says to

883
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:49,900
you today about Susan, that's 
always the quiet ones. 

884
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:53,600
Well that means is Susan's a bit
sexy. 

885
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,300
Susan. 
Got off at someone at the 

886
00:54:56,300 --> 00:54:58,800
Christmas party. 
Susan went home with someone and

887
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,600
a nightclub, whenever I went out
afterwards. 

888
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:05,300
Someone found Susan on the 
swingers website, Susan's a bit 

889
00:55:05,300 --> 00:55:07,000
of a Dark Horse. 
It turns out. 

890
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,400
How did you hear about Susan? 
That's always the quiet ones. 

891
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:19,800
Alan you come into work and 
someone says cheer about Alan. 

892
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:21,700
It's always the quiet. 
Ones. 

893
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:31,600
Alan killed Susan. 
Is gone and the digging it up is

894
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,600
bad. 
You've been doing bud pod for 

895
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,900
how long. 
Now the podcast only doing three

896
00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:38,300
and a bit years I think. 
Yeah. 

897
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:41,700
Okay. 
And has it built up? 

898
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:45,500
Sort of like if you got like a 
hardcore of regular Sinners. 

899
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,400
Oh yes. 
There's, there's an elite 

900
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:48,500
Legion. 
Yeah. 

901
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:51,000
Mmm praetorian guard. 
Absolutely. 

902
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,300
For which I'm very grateful and 
I'm very pleased that because 

903
00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:59,500
Bud part is something that me 
and Phil do without any real 

904
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:02,400
artifice that the people who end
up really liking, it are very 

905
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,800
sort of Almost by definition 
end, up being people who we 

906
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,700
quite like when we meet them. 
She's very nice, it's very nice.

907
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:12,900
It's not not all comedians, like
their fans. 

908
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:21,400
So name them name the name, some
of them never I've listened to 

909
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,300
quite a lot of bad pod, like a 
mole, but I have listened to 

910
00:56:25,300 --> 00:56:29,600
quite a lot and you regularly 
dropping in references to 

911
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:31,500
Milligan and the goons. 
Oh, really? 

912
00:56:32,100 --> 00:56:33,100
Let's see. 
I haven't even done that. 

913
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:35,700
Consciously am I? 
Yeah, yeah, good. 

914
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:37,700
There you go. 
Yeah, I mean, I think the little

915
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:42,000
sketches that I put in Sometimes
a quite weird and guney 

916
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,900
sometimes. 
Yeah. 

917
00:56:43,900 --> 00:56:49,000
Yeah, absolutely voices. 
And I just want to sort of begin

918
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,300
wrapping up now. 
And is there anything that you 

919
00:56:51,308 --> 00:56:55,600
knows anything else about the 
goons or that sort of area that 

920
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:56,800
you want that? 
You want to touch on that? 

921
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,100
You haven't had a chance to 
mention I suppose, I suppose 

922
00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:06,700
it's It's it's it's the sort of 
thing where? 

923
00:57:08,900 --> 00:57:12,200
You wish to an extent. 
You wish that on mainstream 

924
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,700
channels, it was, it was easier 
to get more Innovative stuff off

925
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:22,200
the ground and sometimes it is, 
but As much as you can get 

926
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,400
annoyed with mainstream channels
about the their caution than 

927
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,200
their precarious positions, the 
internet, this the fact that you

928
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,100
and I are talking and making 
something at all, is where the 

929
00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:34,100
freedom, and the interesting 
things are happening. 

930
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:36,700
So we still haven't use. 
Just that, unfortunately, you've

931
00:57:36,700 --> 00:57:38,800
got to try and figure out the 
best way to hunt it down. 

932
00:57:39,300 --> 00:57:47,200
So, I mean, maybe in a way Those
guys Milligan and sellers, and 

933
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,100
seek Him. 
And obviously benteen. 

934
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,800
Yeah. 
Benteen and, and, and God my 

935
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:00,700
brain today, Eric Sykes, and all
those guys if they were around 

936
00:58:00,700 --> 00:58:04,400
today, maybe they would just be 
saying, well, screw the radio 

937
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,500
for commissioner, we're doing a 
podcast. 

938
00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:12,200
Hmm. 
So yeah, I try to be optimistic 

939
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,500
in that sense instead of think. 
Yeah. 

940
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:17,500
I try and Try and find 
Opportunities to make something 

941
00:58:17,500 --> 00:58:19,700
that's like what got you into it
in the first place. 

942
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,900
But you say it's Democratic now 
it's more democratic because of 

943
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:30,800
podcast podcast, certainly help.
I mean it's still never going to

944
00:58:30,808 --> 00:58:34,800
be fully Democratic in the sense
that, you know, if your If 

945
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,400
you're the the Second Son Of The
Earl of wherever or more 

946
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,400
accurately just you know, the 
the Earl of wherever very rarely

947
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,000
has money. 
So we better say, if you're the 

948
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,200
Second Son of a Google CEO or 
something, you can just pay to 

949
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:52,200
promote the podcast, get lots of
listeners, do this, do that, 

950
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,700
whatever. 
And so, you true money and 

951
00:58:54,700 --> 00:58:58,200
position can stop Trump the 
system and in ways that you 

952
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,300
can't plan for, but certainly 
it's Democratic in the sense 

953
00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:05,000
that You personally will not be 
stopped. 

954
00:59:07,300 --> 00:59:10,100
Yeah, you can do it. 
It who knows if it'll hit or if 

955
00:59:10,100 --> 00:59:13,800
it'll take off, but there is no 
structural thing in the way 

956
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:19,200
Beyond, whatever it costs to get
a basic laptop microphone combo,

957
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,900
which is still not nothing. 
But I mean, it's the least it's 

958
00:59:21,900 --> 00:59:24,800
ever been in human history. 
Yeah, yes. 

959
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:30,500
And I think it's about, even if 
even, if you've only got 200, 

960
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:33,800
300 400 500 listeners, who 
regularly listen, that's 

961
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,400
amazing. 
Yeah, because because you go to 

962
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,200
a town hall, Expect to, you 
know, stand up on a stage in 

963
00:59:40,207 --> 00:59:43,200
front of 500 people. 
That's that's an incorrect and, 

964
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,300
you know, they keep coming back 
every week to hear you talk. 

965
00:59:45,300 --> 00:59:49,100
That's an amazing date. 
Vickers, would kill for that 

966
00:59:49,100 --> 00:59:52,500
yelling for this numbers. 
Weakly? 

967
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:56,100
Yeah, yeah. 
Anyway, anyway, let's go. 

968
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,000
Okay, let's get off. 
Let's get off. 

969
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,700
This soapbox PLS in has been a 
it's been a real pleasure. 

970
01:00:02,700 --> 01:00:04,900
Thank you so much. 
Thanks, it's my pleasure. 

971
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,500
Thank you for having me to 
finally talk about the Goons. 

972
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:12,000
Yeah, I appreciate with not said
a huge amount but it's something

973
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,800
that I would urge, I'm sure you 
would urge anyone who's a fan of

974
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:16,700
anyone. 
Listen to this who's not 

975
01:00:16,700 --> 01:00:20,000
necessarily listen to this 
before and I'm not familiar with

976
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:27,900
the goons Spotify, BBC sounds 
YouTube, there's that they're 

977
01:00:27,900 --> 01:00:31,600
all available please. 
You know, take half an hour just

978
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:37,100
to listen to Napoleon's piano or
the rent collectors or or Or 

979
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:41,400
even better putting hurler and 
it's half an hour. 

980
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:46,900
Well, spent absolutely alright, 
p.m. thank you very much and 

981
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,200
hopefully we will talk again 
sometime in the future. 

982
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:50,300
Absolutely, thank you.