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There's other thing that the 
goons are accused of breaking 

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:04,960
new ground. 
There's an awful thing that 

3
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,320
comics get accused of doing, but
you're not aware of doing it 

4
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,200
when you're doing it, are you? 
No, of course not. 

5
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,200
No, I don't think anyone is. 
Read reviews and you say, my 

6
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God, this is a breakthrough or 
something, but you don't sit out

7
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:16,920
and say let's do a breakthrough 
this week. 

8
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,960
Looking back retrospectively, 
you have done something new 

9
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,640
maybe, but at the time it just 
seemed like a good idea to do 

10
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,520
what you did. 
Yes, and you just did it because

11
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it gave you enjoyment and 
fulfilled something in yourself,

12
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,400
but never with the idea of sort 
of attempting to break new 

13
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,600
ground. 
I think, you know, if you set 

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00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,560
out that way, I mean, if if 
you're a scientist and you're 

15
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,440
looking for a discovery or in a 
research that way, there's a 

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whole other thing. 
But in our biz, certainly not. 

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I think you know it would kill 
it and the word go. 

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00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,480
Hello and welcome to Goonpod. 
And podcasting, like sex, is 

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best performed in collaboration 
with somebody else. 

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00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,640
So thankfully I have a somebody 
else to collaborate with this 

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week and it is John Ortey from 
Behind the Stunts. 

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00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,880
I love the idea that you've 
you've made the connection 

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between sex and me. 
For the purpose of the exercise,

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would you mind bringing the 
cigarettes over when you're 

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done? 
Is that all right? 

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00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,840
We'll just, we'll, we'll share a
post coital 1. 

27
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,400
I don't smoke anymore, but for 
the purpose of the exercise, 

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we'll do. 
Did you get the reference, John?

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Yeah, well, there's a, well, 
apart from the smoking reference

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00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:56,880
that I made. 
No, I didn't. 

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00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,080
I didn't. 
I didn't at the start. 

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It's is the word paraphrasing. 
I don't think that's the correct

33
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word in this in this context. 
But I was, I was adapting 

34
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something that Marty Feldman 
said in the documentary we're 

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going to talk about. 
But he said comedy, like sex, is

36
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best performed in collaboration 
with somebody else. 

37
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,840
Right. 
See, of all of the notes I made,

38
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that wasn't one of them. 
Marty had a lot to say in in the

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00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,080
documentary we are going to talk
about today. 

40
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But before we before we come to 
that, John, it's great to have 

41
00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:29,880
you back. 
I think the last time you were 

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00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,720
on was to talk about that God 
awful film Curse of the Was it 

43
00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,080
curse or trail Curse of the Pink
Panther. 

44
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,400
Yeah, well, yes, it may well 
have been cursed. 

45
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,760
The Pink Panther. 
And what was the other thing 

46
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,720
we'd do? 
Oh, we did the the the Comedy 

47
00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:46,560
Awards. 
Do you remember? 

48
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,040
That's right. 
British Comedy Awards. 

49
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,640
Spike Milligner? 
Yes, and his and his outburst 

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00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,200
towards our current king. 
Yes. 

51
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,720
So yeah, no, that's I've just, 
you know, busy as usual doing 

52
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,760
stuff. 
Well, in case people haven't 

53
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,880
heard you before on this show, 
and why not? 

54
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:11,440
You are the host of Behind the 
Stunts yes, and you are a a big 

55
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,720
wheel in the stunt world, I 
guess. 

56
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,400
Oh dear, fair, that's that's. 
Really overblowing it. 

57
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,560
I, I, I mean, I, I genuinely 
get, I do get imposter syndrome 

58
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,320
from time to time and have to 
pinch myself and go this is 

59
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,360
really how this is supposed to 
work. 

60
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,320
I'm a fan of the stunt business,
having wanted to be a stuntman 

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00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,400
when I left school. 
That was the reason behind it. 

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00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:41,000
And after going into a situation
where I was being shown taught 

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00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,800
by a stunt professional how to 
do this and how to do that and 

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00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,400
how to do falls and how to do 
bits and pieces. 

65
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,640
And I could ride a horse, but I 
couldn't ride it terribly well. 

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00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,200
So I fell off a horse as per the
training and broke my hip. 

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00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,440
And ever since then it's been, I
mean, that was what 30 plus 

68
00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,960
years ago and it's never been 
right since. 

69
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,840
And, and people heal quickly 
and, and some don't. 

70
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,520
And I'm, I'm one of the ones 
that don't, sadly. 

71
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,680
But since then, having done a a 
bit of writing, but journalism 

72
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,520
for various magazines and 
broadsheets and bits and pieces,

73
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,040
I thought would would be really 
would be interesting to put 

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00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,959
something together from a 
YouTube point of view where we 

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00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:26,440
celebrate those individuals that
that do as far as I'm concerned,

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00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,840
the most important job in in 
film making, which is stunt 

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work. 
So I started doing that and then

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00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,640
the podcasting thing happened 
and I started doing that as 

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00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,920
well. 
And now it's got to the stage 

80
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,720
where I've been doing it long 
enough where people come to me 

81
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,040
and go, we'd like you to 
interview so and so or an agent 

82
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,960
will come to me and say, how 
about doing this with my client?

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00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,720
So that's really nice. 
Very good. 

84
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,120
That's good to get you back. 
And I'm really looking forward 

85
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,040
to talking about this Marty 
Feldman television extravaganza.

86
00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,200
Yep, there was a terrific 
documentary called Marty 

87
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,360
Feldman. 
What is Comedy? 

88
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,320
Where he takes a little meander 
through the world of comedy and 

89
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:14,600
tries to pull it apart and tries
to explore why certain things 

90
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,760
are funny, how things become 
funny, what was funny to him, 

91
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,720
the origins of comedy, but also 
through the eyes of comedy 

92
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,520
actors or comedy writers, 
particularly some that he would 

93
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,600
have worked with or some that he
was familiar with over the 

94
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,040
years. 
And I've really enjoyed it. 

95
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,640
I thought it was a terrific 
look. 

96
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:44,440
I hadn't seen anything since, 
apart from maybe was it the late

97
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:50,800
90s possibly Dawn French did a 
thing called women who are funny

98
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,320
or something of that nature. 
Interviewed a whole bunch of 

99
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,520
individuals and it was that was 
a really good insight into what 

100
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,640
makes certain individuals tick. 
Dawn French, particularly with 

101
00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:03,240
Victoria Wood, there's an 
episode. 

102
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,520
Yes. 
Oh, so remember that, Yeah. 

103
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,680
Really, really good. 
And this is not a million miles 

104
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,160
away from that, only done in a 
very different situation to a 

105
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,880
very different time span, but 
but you kind of get the same 

106
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,400
sort of little Nuggets of 
information which are 

107
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,040
fascinating. 
But I can imagine this. 

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00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,000
There's scratching the heads and
saying, but Tyler, we love Marty

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00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,600
Feldman and all that. 
Why does this qualify for Goon? 

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00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:31,720
Part. 
Well, we we do. 

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00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,720
We are skipping the surface of 
the Gooner verse as you know 

112
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,960
here. 
However, he does manage to get a

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00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,440
little chat on location with 
Peter Sellers while making the 

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00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,920
magic Christian. 
Yes, he does, and that's great. 

115
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,400
Yeah. 
And that's really, really good. 

116
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,480
In fact, I would go as far as I 
know we're going to talk about 

117
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,080
it, but I would go as far as to 
say that it's possibly the best 

118
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,040
few moments of Sellers being 
interviewed about something that

119
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,960
I've seen for such a long time. 
I would agree. 

120
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,600
And I'm wondering whether it's 
because he's talking to, I 

121
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,320
guess, a peer. 
Yeah, almost absolutely. 

122
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,480
Who's chain smoking like? 
It was such a different. 

123
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,920
I was, I used to be a smoker. 
I, I never smoked as much as 

124
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,320
Marty Feldman did. 
I was to make that very clear. 

125
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:25,160
But there wasn't an opportunity 
where having a smoke wasn't an 

126
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,480
option. 
There's a bit where he sat in 

127
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,240
the middle of a ring of primary 
school children. 

128
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,880
Yes, that's right. 
Smoking a cigarette, yeah, and 

129
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,680
pontificating about comedy. 
Yeah, there was after they they 

130
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,760
watched, they watched the Punch 
and Judy show Punch. 

131
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,520
And Judy show if you if you made
a a drinking game out of, you 

132
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,240
know, having a drink every time 
you saw Marty you. 

133
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,440
Would. 
Wouldn't you? 

134
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,720
So this is so you said what? 
What did you say it was called? 

135
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,040
It's got, I think it's called 
Marty Feldman. 

136
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,040
What is comedy? 
Yeah, see, that flashes up. 

137
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,400
That title flashes up as as the 
documentary begins, but I 

138
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,960
believe it it's official title 
is no, but seriously. 

139
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,480
Oh, OK, but but to make it even 
more confusing, it it it's a 

140
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:21,080
documentary under the the 
strand, the BBC Two series, 

141
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,920
occasional series, one pair of 
eyes. 

142
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:31,160
What a pair. 
Very appropriate for the longest

143
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,400
time because when this when this
because I I was aware of this 

144
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,559
documentary. 
There was a pretty awful quality

145
00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,640
version floating around for 
years but BBC put it up on. 

146
00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,360
BBC Archive, isn't it? 
They've they've got a really 

147
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,840
good version of it, yeah. 
Yeah, So they they put that up 

148
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,600
on YouTube so it's freely 
available to watch. 

149
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,080
It's really good. 
But for the longest time, I just

150
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,040
thought that the one pair of 
eyes was to indicate Marty's 

151
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,880
peculiar. 
Yeah appearance. 

152
00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,200
But. 
But no, it was, it was actually 

153
00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:04,880
the the, the title of this BBC 2
documentary strand. 

154
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,240
And it went, it ran. 
And they weren't, it wasn't 

155
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,720
anything like weekly or even 
monthly. 

156
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,240
It was sporadic. 
It was random. 

157
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,280
Yeah. 
And. 

158
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:21,280
And it ran from 67 until 1984. 
Would you believe 84? 

159
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,600
Really. 
Yes. 

160
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,080
Yes, apparently. 
And I looked at, I looked at 

161
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,600
who? 
So every. 

162
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,280
Time. 
Who else was involved then? 

163
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,920
Yeah. 
It was basically each episode 

164
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,520
was presented by a different 
personality, right? 

165
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,320
OK. 
And it could be anyone from, 

166
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:44,120
well, in this case, comedy, 
acting, science, drama, music, 

167
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,760
philosophy, just somebody who 
was a leader in their particular

168
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,320
field. 
And it wasn't necessarily about 

169
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,040
what they did, but it was them 
talking about a subject that 

170
00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,000
they cared deeply about. 
Right. 

171
00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:02,880
OK. 
And I'll just give you I, I, I 

172
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,720
looked at the list of there was 
God. 

173
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,480
It must have been about. 
Yeah, give us, give us the 

174
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,440
runners and riders who's in. 40 
or 50 of these episodes and I 

175
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,880
and I picked out ones that just 
caught my eye in terms of the, I

176
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,320
guess the the people involved. 
OK. 

177
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,560
We have John Wells. 
Oh, right. 

178
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,800
Yeah, and his, his episode was 
just called the Monkey Puzzle, 

179
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,240
Right. 
The the thing about this, by the

180
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,520
way, on Wikipedia, it doesn't 
get, it just gives you the 

181
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:28,720
titles. 
It doesn't give you an 

182
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,480
indication of what they were 
about. 

183
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,320
Oh, I see. 
So you have to use your 

184
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,040
imagination. 
You had the politician who I 

185
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,840
think he was Joe Grimmond, who 
was the leader of the Liberal. 

186
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,800
Party Joe Yes, yes, that's 
right. 

187
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,240
Yes. 
In the 60s, yeah. 

188
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,520
He was one of the first to do 
this documentary and his his 

189
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,840
title was The Dead Hand of 
Democracy. 

190
00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:01,280
The novelist Tom Wolfe, who I'm 
very fond of, did an episode 

191
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,800
called Happiness is Wheel 
shaped, Wheel shaped, wheel 

192
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:13,640
shaped Robert Morley, who I find
I have trouble with trouble 

193
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:14,800
with. 
Yes. 

194
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,800
Whenever he turns up in a film I
go, oh God, his, his 

195
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,040
documentary, his episode was 
called Was your Schoolmaster 

196
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,600
Really Necessary? 
Is there any chance of milk in 

197
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,600
this tea? 
Gerald Scarf, who? 

198
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,680
I'm a big fan of the cartoonist.
I think I see violence all 

199
00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:42,160
around me. 
Patrick Moore, can you? 

200
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,440
Yeah. 
Can you speak Venusian? 

201
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,560
Which of course you can 
fluently. 

202
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,680
Yes, yeah. 
And lastly, and and there's 

203
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,800
there's many others, but this 
this caught my eye. 

204
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,760
And sadly, I don't think this 
exists or it certainly hasn't 

205
00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:01,280
turned up an episode called If 
you've got a pair of eyes, Use 

206
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,360
Them right, Which would be 
perfect for Marty. 

207
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,520
Yes, it could, yeah. 
But who do you think that might 

208
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,440
be, and why would it interest me
in particular? 

209
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,400
If you've got a pair of eyes, 
use them. 

210
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,160
It's somebody. 
Why would it particularly 

211
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,000
interest me, John? 
Oh, I see. 

212
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,480
Because, well, you're you're a 
fan of you're a fan of comedy. 

213
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,040
You're a fan of the goons. 
Glasses. 

214
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,720
No Coons if you've got to use 
them. 

215
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:30,840
No. 
You're going to have to help me 

216
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,840
out here for the purpose of 
Spike. 

217
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:38,080
Spike is it? 
Spike had his own episode of 

218
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,680
this is how confusing this is 
The the the the strand is called

219
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,800
one pair of eyes, right? 
And the subtitle spikes episode 

220
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,680
was called If you've got a pair 
of eyes, use them. 

221
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,280
Very confusing. 
Very confusing. 

222
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,880
Yes, exactly. 
I wouldn't have gone directly to

223
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,320
Spike on that, no. 
No, it was from February 1973 

224
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,640
and I believe I did a bit more 
digging on that one and it was 

225
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,360
like a day in the life. 
It was basically him, just a 

226
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,720
camera following him about. 
Oh, see, I'd love that. 

227
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,480
I would love that. 
That would be terrific, right? 

228
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,400
So we can make a we can make a 
plea here. 

229
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,640
If anybody is already familiar 
with this and dare say fingers 

230
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,560
crossed and everything crossed 
has a version of this, then 

231
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,560
please let us know because that 
would be hugely entertaining to 

232
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,040
see. 
I'm sure there's been many 

233
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,680
people, Goon fans the world over
that would want to see that. 

234
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:31,480
Brilliant. 
Well, absolutely. 

235
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,600
I mean, I would be first in the 
queue, of course. 

236
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,040
And the film was apparently, as 
I say, like a a a day in the 

237
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,640
life of Mike Milligan, a glimpse
of his life and attempts to keep

238
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:48,520
in in close touch with unreality
and things that he believed are 

239
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,640
important, right, Such as the 
perfect doughnut. 

240
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,400
Oh see this is the everything is
boxes have been ticked left 

241
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,000
front and centre. 
Treasure in London's docks, 

242
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,920
right? 
And also, and this is typical 

243
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,080
Milligan, the fact that all rain
clouds are British, wherever 

244
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,720
they may be. 
Wow, it's nice. 

245
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,240
Yes, it's it's a sign if it's 
raining, you've you've you've 

246
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,800
annoyed us in some shape or form
and we're we're giving it back 

247
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:18,680
to you, Right. 
OK. 

248
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,560
So there we go. 
So so that's this. 

249
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,720
You know this one pair of eyes. 
So, folks, if you're wondering 

250
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,680
why we're here, that's why we're
here. 

251
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,440
This is Wilson's Music Hall. 
It was last used about 100 years

252
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,920
ago. 
This would have been a great 

253
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,960
room to work. 
You could actually, you could 

254
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,240
feel some sense of contact with 
an audience here. 

255
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:44,800
You could almost reach out and 
touch them. 

256
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,560
That's the thing that's sort of 
lacking in television. 

257
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,640
You miss that in TV. 
You're working through a camera.

258
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,800
There is a need for this. 
Artists have a need to contact 

259
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,560
the audience and the audience 
have a need to contact the 

260
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,760
artist. 
Musical was created by people, 

261
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,200
for people. 
It was the people who performed 

262
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,600
it were the same people who sat 
and watched the performances. 

263
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,160
You know, most of the week they 
worked and then they got up and 

264
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:11,880
they sang in the evenings or 
they performed it. 

265
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,200
They created it themselves. 
And oddly enough, although I was

266
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,000
born out of that age, I was born
in an age of radio and 

267
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,920
television and cinema. 
I thought myself to be very much

268
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,840
part of the tradition of Music 
Hall. 

269
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,640
And I know it has a tremendous 
influence on the work I do. 

270
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,400
And I care very much about it. 
I care much about the people, I 

271
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,520
care much about the performers. 
I care about the buildings. 

272
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,560
Ugly enough too. 
What we actually need is some 

273
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,280
kind of not to keep it going 
just because it's old. 

274
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,520
You know, the old things are are
nice. 

275
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,600
They have some connotations, but
because I think it fills a need,

276
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,000
that's the end of the sermon. 
Into the song and off hi. 

277
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,400
It is broadcast on the 7th of 
June 1969. 

278
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:07,920
Is it? 
Really. 

279
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,160
OK, yeah, I looked at what else 
was on TV, right? 

280
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,000
The the evening or the day that 
this was broadcast. 

281
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,200
OK, so as I say, it was 7th of 
June 69. 

282
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,240
It was a Saturday, right? 
There's a quite a lot of 

283
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,080
listeners who are Doctor, Doctor
Who fans. 

284
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,600
OK, the Doctor Who episode on 
this day was the War Games Part 

285
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:35,320
8. 
This is this is per twee. 69 

286
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:36,800
wasn't it still trout? 
And then, oh, was it? 

287
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:37,440
Trout. 
I don't know. 

288
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,240
I'm not, I think. 
Per twee was 70, OK, I think and

289
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,320
what do I know, but I'm I'm sure
that's the case. 

290
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:47,160
OK, there will be people 
shouting now, but I'm sure it 

291
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,800
was Trout. 
And OK, also on television D 

292
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:56,000
time with Simon D Oh, right. 
And his guests included Cliff 

293
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,640
Richard Arthur, ASCII. 
Anything else? 

294
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,560
Yes. 
And Bobby Gentry. 

295
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,079
Oh. 
What, what a what a sofa? 

296
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,359
To have, I know, wow, I'd love 
that. 

297
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,960
There's also on the Buses on 
ITV. 

298
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,440
Oh my, go on, get. 
That bus, there you go. 

299
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:21,480
Get it marvellous, Get it 
marvellous and the Bruce Forsyth

300
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,119
Show. 
Oh, well, I tell you what, it's 

301
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,599
every How many channels were 
there in 1969? 

302
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,680
We still on three. 
Were we on 3/3? 

303
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,680
Bloody hell, that's I'll tell 
you what, that's some 

304
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,200
entertainment for a Saturday 
night that is on three channels.

305
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,680
Well, there's also something 
else that was on, right, which I

306
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,560
just want to spend a moment 
talking about. 

307
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,200
Go on. 
OK, It was, it was a, a new 

308
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,960
program called Whatever Next, 
right? 

309
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,640
Right. 
It was on BBC 11045. 

310
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,080
I think it was a 25 minute long 
program. 

311
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,240
OK, from what I could find out, 
it appears to have been like a 

312
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,000
sort of bear in mind, this is 
1969, although it is BBC One. 

313
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,480
It's kind of like a way out 
variety show, OK, right. 

314
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:08,080
Featuring a girl group called 
the Flirtations every week, 

315
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,880
right? 
And every week, someone who you 

316
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,640
wouldn't normally associate with
Shakespeare would appear 

317
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:17,800
performing as one of his 
characters. 

318
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,440
Right. 
And there was also. 

319
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,560
You like this bit, John. 
Every week there was a bit where

320
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,040
a stuntman was invited to to 
perform a stunt he'd never done 

321
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,200
before. 
Really. 

322
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:32,960
Apparently. 
Yeah. 

323
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,920
And also there was a Horror 
Story that was read out on 

324
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,960
camera. 
And apparently the presenter was

325
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,920
the presenter. 
Was Morris the minor bird? 

326
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,880
What is that? 
What is Morris the Minor? 

327
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,480
Is it actually a minor bird? 
Called. 

328
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,080
I'm assuming it's an actual 
minor bird that speaks. 

329
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,040
What? 
Not complete sentences, surely. 

330
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,840
I don't know it. 
No, I don't know but but I I 

331
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:08,200
bring it up specifically because
the evening of 7th of June 1969 

332
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:14,360
whatever next 1045 it features 
the flirtations the girl group 

333
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,560
under a shower. 
Apparently the end credits were 

334
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,320
sung by a girl in a bubble bath.
So kind of get the idea here 

335
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,760
where this? 
This is the only time you 

336
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,080
mentioned post coital cigarette 
at the start, yes. 

337
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,880
What? 
What else could possibly happen 

338
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,280
in this show? 
But who appears playing Shylock 

339
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,640
in The Merchant of Venice? 
Who do you think appears playing

340
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,800
Shylock? 
Remember. 

341
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,680
Remember I said every week 
someone comes on and appears as 

342
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,360
like a Shakespeare character? 
Yes. 

343
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,920
Now, now, who were we talking 
about not 5 minutes ago? 

344
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,360
There's a clue. 
Spike Milligan? 

345
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,680
Yes, yes, Spike Milligan plays 
Shylock. 

346
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,560
I, I, I, I don't even want to 
think what that was like. 

347
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,720
You can just imagine it. 
I mean, you know, there there 

348
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,360
is, as we know in later life 
there's an association with 

349
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,640
comedic roles and Shakespeare. 
Peter Hall was one of those 

350
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,240
individuals that managed to get 
Eric Sykes to play a very 

351
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,120
serious role in Shakespeare and 
Richard. 

352
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:20,160
Bryers, I think Richard. 
Bryers indeed. 

353
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:25,240
Yes, Richard Bryers. 
Folly enough, if I may, just for

354
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,640
a moment. 
That brings me onto my Michael 

355
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:32,440
Caine story of occasions where 
people who don't do Shakespeare 

356
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,720
were asked to do Shakespeare. 
You did mention that just a 

357
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,600
moment ago. 
And he was at a charity event 

358
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:45,400
and somebody had pledged 
$500,000, which back in 1971 was

359
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,280
a huge, some, still a huge sum 
of money now, but nevertheless 

360
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,560
for John Wayne to read 
Shakespeare. 

361
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,240
And so he was given this piece 
of paper and he said, and I 

362
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:04,280
quote to be or not to be. 
That is the question whether it 

363
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,600
is nobler in The Who wrote this 
shit? 

364
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,680
He said so nonetheless. 
But that was a a a Barry Cryer 

365
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,120
butterfly brain moment I had. 
I thought, oh, I remember that. 

366
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,320
And that's what you said. 
Hang on, where's Michael Caine 

367
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:18,800
in this? 
He was the one that told the 

368
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,080
story. 
Oh, I see. 

369
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:20,840
I. 
Think that's fair? 

370
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,320
But he was he was at the event. 
Does that count? 

371
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:24,320
I suppose. 
Yeah, that does. 

372
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,680
What's the story about? 
Apocryphal story, I'm sure about

373
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,400
John Wayne in some biblical epic
where he says something like is,

374
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,720
is this the Son of God? 
And then then the director says,

375
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,520
no, John love John. 
Can you say it with a bit of 

376
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,920
awe? 
And he goes, and he goes, Awe, 

377
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:49,440
is this the Son of God? 
Yeah, just, you know, it's he's 

378
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,200
just, he's put up there on this 
pedestal for and quite rightly 

379
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,200
so. 
You know, there are a moment you

380
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,680
put up, put him on the pedestal 
because there are still people 

381
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,400
around the world who see 
pictures of John Wayne and they 

382
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,360
think that is America. 
You know, that's the in fact, I 

383
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:05,120
think there was a coin when he 
passed away. 

384
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,920
And I think Maureen, Maureen 
O'Hara was, was one of the ones 

385
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,640
who was instigated this. 
And there was a commemorative 

386
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,920
coin that simply said John Wayne
American. 

387
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,480
It said on it on the basis that 
he was associated with being 

388
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,560
America. 
But every once in a while, he 

389
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,920
didn't take stage direction 
terribly. 

390
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,120
Well, I like the fact that he he
knocked Baldrick into a canal. 

391
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,600
Oh, yes, that's right. 
We talked about that, didn't we?

392
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,480
That's right. 
In Branigan. 

393
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,440
In Branigan. 
Yeah, Tony. 

394
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,880
Anyway, listen, giving him the 
beans, right? 

395
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:37,520
Go on. 
Sorry. 

396
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,200
We we better get to Marty 
Feldman. 

397
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:44,240
Yes, quite right. 
So before we before we even get 

398
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,680
I keep putting off us talking. 
About two hours in already and 

399
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,840
before we get there, yes. 
But let's just quickly talk 

400
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,840
about Marty in, in, in the 
round. 

401
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:57,400
So he, so he's born 1937 and I 
was looking at his, his early 

402
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,800
life and it's an incredible 
dissolute, misspent youth, I 

403
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,520
suppose. 
Yes, I think it was. 

404
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,720
I also don't think that he would
have got very far with his old, 

405
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,720
with his original name, Martin 
Allen Feldman. 

406
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,760
Martin Feldman. 
So he's gone with Marty, which I

407
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,240
think makes a great deal of 
sense. 

408
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,000
You know, you associate him, the
hair, the image. 

409
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,480
He's a Marty. 
There's he's definitely not a 

410
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,600
Martin, you know. 
But yes, misspent youth. 

411
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,360
Yeah. 
He was a bit of a bit of a lad, 

412
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,520
wasn't he? 
Well, he was thrown out of a art

413
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,040
school. 
He'd had poems published as as a

414
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,760
teenager and apparently he'd met
Dylan Thomas in Soho as a 

415
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,200
teenager and and Dylan Thomas 
had encouraged him in terms of 

416
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,000
the poetry. 
He went to Paris when he was 16.

417
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,680
He became a sculptor's tout, and
what he would do was persuade 

418
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:58,200
dumb American tourists to buy 
the work of a supposed great 

419
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,160
French sculptor. 
But it's actually another 

420
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,720
American who would eat garlic 
and adopt A ropey French accent.

421
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,080
Yeah. 
Knock, knock out something half 

422
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,680
an hour before, Yeah. 
Yeah, I'm just thinking Tony 

423
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,400
Hancock in The Rebel. 
Exactly. 

424
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:16,320
Yes, You know, and that was 
around 1953 and and that year he

425
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,600
came back to England. 
He formed a jazz group, of which

426
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,560
more later. 
He was a trumpeter, wouldn't he?

427
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,040
Yeah. 
Yeah, and he mentions that in 

428
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,240
the in the show, He worked in 
factories, book shops, music 

429
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,400
shops. 
And again, we'll come back to a 

430
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,920
fair in Margate. 
He played a like a Native 

431
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,480
American kind of Mystic figure. 
I think that's, I think that's 

432
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,360
giving it a bit too too much, I 
think. 

433
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,440
It is, it's, it's, it's a bit 
like it's Johnny Depp in The 

434
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,960
Lone Ranger. 
Yes. 

435
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,440
You know, it's that sort of 
thing. 

436
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,160
I think more than anything else.
Yeah. 

437
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,560
Although possibly not done with 
with such a plum. 

438
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,400
Yeah, and and then obviously he 
met Berry Tukey, got into script

439
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,440
writing and the rest of his 
history, it was eyes are like 

440
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,040
that due to a botched thyroid 
operation in 19. 61 That's 

441
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,760
right, yeah. 
So he's got, you know, he's got 

442
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:14,200
one in Chiswick and one in 
Islington, but he only, but he, 

443
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,480
he compensated for it enormously
because it was such a, such a 

444
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,000
magical part of, you know, it's 
a condition, right? 

445
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,960
So he's had this thyroid thing 
and this is a result of that. 

446
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,120
I wonder then, as I wonder now, 
if the amount of, of success 

447
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:36,720
that he had, admittedly, he very
physical, you know, he's a 

448
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,920
vaudevillian. 
He's that sort of that he 

449
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,520
thrives on that type of input. 
But his physical appearance has 

450
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,160
made such a huge impact on his 
career. 

451
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,000
Would he have been that 
individual, you know, that would

452
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,400
have been available to do this 
role, do this role if he didn't 

453
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,480
look a certain way? 
And I appreciate that. 

454
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,280
He's incredibly talented in 
those things that he's done, but

455
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,480
his look is massively important 
to him. 

456
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,000
It seems very logical that the 
writer should also be the 

457
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,480
performer. 
It completes the process. 

458
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,600
I mean, I don't think of writing
and acting as separate 

459
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,480
functions. 
Inventing the script is the part

460
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,160
that most interests me, 
performing as a catharsis, a 

461
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,240
kind of orgasm. 
Consequently, when I've finished

462
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,320
a show, it's over dead. 
When I watch myself on the 

463
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,200
screen, it's in a curious, sort 
of detached way, as if it were 

464
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,720
somebody else. 
I don't find myself funny, but 

465
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,120
I'm sometimes interested in, and
I'm often surprised that I did a

466
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,040
particular thing in a particular
way. 

467
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,040
It came as a surprise to me that
I didn't really learn anything 

468
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:43,880
by watching myself working 
intuitively as I need to. 

469
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,600
Most of the time I'm not really 
conscious of what I'm doing 

470
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,640
while I'm doing it, and by the 
time I see a show on the screen,

471
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,640
it's irrelevant because I'm 
involved in the next thing. 

472
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,520
So this documentary it is, it is
presented by written by I guess,

473
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,880
and and presented by, Yep, by 
Marty. 

474
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,880
There's no narrator. 
There's no presenter of Marty. 

475
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,600
It begins with an award show. 
Very smokes waved. 

476
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,200
Yeah, I couldn't quite 
understand what it was, but it's

477
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,320
it's the British light 
entertainment script that he's 

478
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,760
winning an award for for the 
show party. 

479
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,680
For the show party. 
Very exciting outfit, black 

480
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:28,960
suit, black shirt with the huge 
white bow tie. 

481
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,760
It's a remarkable the whole 
thing. 

482
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,480
If he'd worn a black, everything
was black, you know. 

483
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,760
Well, OK, fair enough, but he 
just has to accentuate. 

484
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,200
It was enormous white bow tie. 
He's receiving this award. 

485
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,840
He he's got a cigarette on the 
go already. 

486
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,840
Yep, and in doubt. 
And as he's returning to his 

487
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,160
seat, he goes up to the camera 
and kind of snogs it or 

488
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,880
something. 
And, and Marty obviously 

489
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,440
narrating this says kind of 
ruefully now, what made me do 

490
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,880
that? 
Now, what made me do that? 

491
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,360
Well, the lights were on and 
there's a pointing at you. 

492
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:04,680
That's right, you're a. 
Performer. 

493
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Somebody leaves the fridge door 
open. 

494
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,200
I'm going to do 20 minutes. 
And then and then there's this 

495
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,920
cut to Margate, as I mentioned 
before, we head yes to this 

496
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,480
fairground as a he, he said he 
worked as a red. 

497
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,200
It was a Red Indian fake. 
Here, Yeah. 

498
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,960
And I, I just, I just wrote, 
God, it looks grim. 

499
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,640
Margate I mean the the only 
thing that there's a couple of 

500
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,840
exciting moments, the fact that 
he's driving a Mustang in 1969, 

501
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,720
which is gorgeous. 
I mean it looks absolutely got 

502
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,520
the the year before 68 bullet 
came out yes and Steve McQueen 

503
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,640
of course, driving the the the 
Mustang in that and he's driving

504
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:49,240
a soft top and it looks really, 
really yummy and Christ knows 

505
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,960
how much it would have cost him 
a fortune. 

506
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,920
I would have thought back then, 
but of course he's wearing this.

507
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,240
What is it, a mink coat or 
something? 

508
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,680
I don't know how. 
I don't know how many people in 

509
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,080
Margate would have gone. 
I think I'll put the mink on 

510
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,520
today it. 
Kind of looks like a Harlem 

511
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,360
pimp, yes. 
He does, yeah. 

512
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,040
Yeah. 
And he wears that for a for a 

513
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,280
fair bit of the show, to be 
honest. 

514
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,960
Yeah. 
And and a cap. 

515
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,600
He's got a cap and a cap. 
Yeah, yeah. 

516
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,440
He's very philosophical. 
He's very thoughtful. 

517
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,080
His his, his voice over on this.
He says as a child it never 

518
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,680
occurred to to him that you 
could have a career as a 

519
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,240
comedian. 
And he says comedy is a kind of 

520
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,400
neurosis you exploit which. 
Yes. 

521
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,280
I thought about that for about 5
minutes, sucking the end of my 

522
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,080
pencil and I thought that's 
what. 

523
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,360
There's a lot of, you know, in 
the entertainment industry, 

524
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,240
particularly with the actors or 
comedians or stunt people, if we

525
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,920
look at that respect. 
And one of the things that I get

526
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,680
a lot when I talk to them is the
fact, the similar sort of thing.

527
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,400
I didn't believe that you could 
make a living doing this. 

528
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,800
You know, we didn't know that 
this was a job. 

529
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,240
Yeah. 
And I think that's what Marty's 

530
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,400
driving at is the fact that, you
know, as far as he was 

531
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,360
concerned, he was funny. 
Other people thought he was 

532
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,280
funny. 
All of a sudden he's funny on a 

533
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,560
much bigger scale and being paid
for it on a much bigger scale 

534
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,400
and, and creating shows and 
doing films and stuff. 

535
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,920
And it's almost run away with 
him. 

536
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,320
You know, it's got out of his 
grasp almost, but I think as as 

537
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,480
I say with a lot of individuals,
that what I can do this for a 

538
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,040
living really. 
And the hard thing is 

539
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,560
maintaining that level of of 
funny, you know, which I think 

540
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,520
is why he's exploring it here. 
Throughout this documentary, 

541
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,040
he's is the is the modern phrase
he's even though he's one 

542
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,760
himself, he's othering comedians
in the sense of he's he's making

543
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,080
them out to be social outcasts 
and and yeah, freaks. 

544
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,120
Almost, I think so. 
I think he's looking, he's 

545
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,320
looking at making what he's, I 
think there's also what he's 

546
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,080
trying to do. 
He's trying to find other people

547
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,160
who are like him. 
You know, he thinks this and he 

548
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,600
wants to find other people who 
like mindedly go, yes, I 

549
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,120
understand that exactly because 
I'm coming from the same place. 

550
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,000
Because not long after that, he 
has a he has a chat with Dudley 

551
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,360
Moore. 
Yes, in respect of of the type 

552
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,520
of comedy and the way that he 
approaches it. 

553
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:25,000
Again, both of them now wearing 
very silly coats and although 

554
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,520
Dudley not smoking but Marty 
making up for it. 

555
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Marty smoking 2 cigarettes to 
make up cigarettes. 

556
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,840
Yes, Dudley. 
Not smoking one very tall 

557
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,840
cigarette to to remind the world
that Dudley is part of a Dubble 

558
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,960
act and has the you can always 
tell a really serious smoker 

559
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,240
when they have the lighter round
their neck on on a piece of 

560
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,360
string, which Marty has 
throughout all of this, in fact,

561
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,360
did for many, many years. 
He was never short of a light. 

562
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,600
That's true. 
But yeah, he's trying to get 

563
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,080
that information out of Dudley 
and trying to make comparisons 

564
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,440
between what Dudley does from 
his school days to what Marty 

565
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,240
did throughout his school days 
as well. 

566
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,280
You know, the the bullies 
picking on people. 

567
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,080
You try and get out of it with 
comedy and that's what he's 

568
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,040
trying to do. 
He's trying to make the 

569
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,600
comparisons there and see 
whether that continues right the

570
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,720
way through all of the all of 
the people that he speaks to. 

571
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,360
Dudley seems a little bit 
subdued. 

572
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,760
He is in his interview and he 
talks about being like you say, 

573
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,880
unpopular at school. 
And he and he's the classic 

574
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,400
story and he says about Dudley 
talks about making the bullies 

575
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,040
laugh to keep in with them and 
send stoppers trousers getting 

576
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,920
pulled down at playtime. 
Take a hot crumpet from behind 

577
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,840
without blooming. 
That's right, he he also quotes 

578
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,440
Oscar Wilde because on the on 
the basis that, you know, Dudley

579
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,560
thought it would be a nice way 
to meet girls, you know, which 

580
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,160
is which is exactly the way that
that Marty thought at the time. 

581
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,880
And he quotes Oscar Wilde by 
saying men laugh with their 

582
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,680
eyes, women with their looks, 
you know, So there was a certain

583
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,640
look that he might have got or 
something during that. 

584
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,200
We'll go. 
I'm getting a bit of approval 

585
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,080
from over here. 
This might be where I might be 

586
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,840
better sorted when he was just 
generally goofing about at 

587
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,000
school and to see if if that 
would work long term. 

588
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,080
But it's fascinating looking at 
pulling this apart, you know? 

589
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,560
Yeah, but Marty put it in more 
blunt terms. 

590
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,320
He said that comedy starts out 
as a defence mechanism, but you 

591
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,280
later find out that it's a way 
to pull birds, right. 

592
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,960
Yeah. 
And, and, and Dudley as well, 

593
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,280
said that he didn't really enjoy
Oxford. 

594
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,360
He felt out of place. 
He felt like a fraud. 

595
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,600
Yes, that's right. 
Yes, he did. 

596
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,760
Which I didn't realise. 
I know, I know enough about 

597
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,720
Dudley Moore. 
I didn't realise that he was 

598
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,600
unhappy at all. 
No, because there was a, if you 

599
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,760
remember at the, at the back end
of his life when he was struck 

600
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,480
down with this terrible disease.
He had the South Bank show, I 

601
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,320
think did a, did a show on him 
and it was never, and it went 

602
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:57,120
right back to his early days. 
Spoke to his organ tutor back 

603
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,000
there because that was what he, 
what he, what he majored in back

604
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,160
there. 
And this was never discussed at 

605
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,560
any point. 
This was the first time I was 

606
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,360
hearing it, which was on this on
this particular documentary. 

607
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,880
Yeah, and then we get this 
primary school where there's a 

608
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,840
Punch and Judy show going on. 
Still the most violent 

609
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,520
children's entertainment we've 
ever had, he quotes. 

610
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,159
And he's quite right. 
I mean, you know, Punch and Judy

611
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,080
is is, you see the kids 
laughing, but there's the amount

612
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,719
of violence in it is. 
I find to this day I find the 

613
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,920
whole concept of Punch and Judy 
shows incomprehensible. 

614
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:34,520
Just. 
Extraordinary, isn't it? 

615
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,320
Did you as a child? 
Because they certainly didn't 

616
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,199
have them when I was growing up.
But did you ever attend as a 

617
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,400
child a Punch and Judy show? 
Well, I'm too inland. 

618
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,840
I think being in the Midlands, 
you know, I'm right in the smack

619
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:50,880
bang in the middle. 
So we may have seen one. 

620
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,719
If we'd gone to the coast, the, 
the nearest coast from us would 

621
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,360
have been Skegness, and that was
a day trip to get there. 

622
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,520
You know, it's, it's that moment
in National Lampoon's vacation 

623
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,560
where they go to the Grand 
Canyon and they go, right, 

624
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,560
That's the Grand Canyon kid. 
OK, back in the car. 

625
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:06,560
We've got to go. 
Take it off. 

626
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,560
You know, so we may have seen 
one there, but I wasn't, I don't

627
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,720
think I'd ever seen one apart 
from those occasions maybe. 

628
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,080
Certainly when we went to 
parties or we went to places of 

629
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,800
that nature that nobody had ever
done it. 

630
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,680
But when you, when you look at 
it now and you think, Jesus, how

631
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,360
violent is this? 
And kids are laughing and they 

632
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,360
love it. 
But he does explain to them 

633
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,880
about when the policeman's 
hitting there or, or, or they're

634
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,800
hitting everybody, it's not very
nice. 

635
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,720
If you were hit by, by a, by a, 
with a piece of wood, you 

636
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:38,960
wouldn't be very happy, would 
you? 

637
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,800
And they were kind of agreeing 
on the whole thing. 

638
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,960
But so you kind of think, well, 
maybe they've got the message, 

639
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,600
but obviously look at them later
life and most of them are 

640
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,560
probably doing 10 to 15 years as
habituals in in jail, you know. 

641
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,240
So it's, it's very difficult to 
look at it and go, yes, I've 

642
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,120
understood exactly what this is 
trying to tell me. 

643
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:59,840
What it's actually trying to 
tell me is I like violence is 

644
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,120
what it's trying to tell me. 
Very complicated piece of work. 

645
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,760
But he's but he's there, sat as 
I said before, he sat there with

646
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,680
his legs crossed. 
Yep, talking to a group of 

647
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120
seven-year olds. 
Yeah, ideally what you would 

648
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,160
have wanted there was you would 
have want a couple of those 7 

649
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,240
year olds to ask him for a light
and then have a smoke as well. 

650
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,880
You know, we all join round 
together so that he would go, Oh

651
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,480
yeah, certainly because he's got
one around his neck. 

652
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,000
Here you go. 
And then they crack on with. 

653
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,040
So what did you think of the 
Punch and Judy dear? 

654
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,080
He's watching this Punch and 
Judy show as the as the kids are

655
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,080
laughing, he says. 
He said children are more hip 

656
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,520
than adults. 
They react instinctively to what

657
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,520
they find funny. 
They don't read the reviews 

658
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,600
first. 
Do you think it was a bit 

659
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,400
waspish? 
Yeah, it was really, I mean, you

660
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,440
know, the the idea of a bunch of
seven-year olds going, I'm not 

661
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,000
watching this. 
Have you read what they've said 

662
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,600
in this? 
It's appalling. 

663
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,320
Apparently this one's portrayed 
as being, you know, out of town,

664
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,080
whatever that means. 
No, I want nothing to do with 

665
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:57,800
it. 
No. 

666
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,200
And I, I mean, yes, kids do 
laugh at anything when you when 

667
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,640
you and I can, I do see the 
appeal of that, the silliness of

668
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,200
the high pitched voice and the 
the crocodile with a stick in 

669
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,960
its hand hitting somebody and 
the sausages falling over. 

670
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,160
It's funny, right? 
I do see that. 

671
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,160
But you know, from a kids point 
of view, but later on in life 

672
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,400
you go, really, you're still 
doing this. 

673
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,840
Have has this not moved on? 
It is and it is, it's a very 

674
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,760
violent show. 
It, it, it wouldn't be punching 

675
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,920
Judy if it wasn't involving acts
of violence all the way through 

676
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,120
it, you know, just you get the 
violence to get the laugh, you 

677
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,040
know, So it's, yeah, it's a 
strange one. 

678
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,280
Because he was asking the kids 
what they found. 

679
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:42,440
Funny. 
That's right, yeah. 

680
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,760
No one, none of them really 
replied because of the strange 

681
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,200
looking man with a cigarette. 
Smoking a cigarette. 

682
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,680
Looking very serious, asking 
them and, and he, he basically 

683
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,280
helps them, he says or prompts 
them. 

684
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,800
He says most most of the things 
you liked were when they were 

685
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,000
hitting each other, weren't 
they? 

686
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,040
And they went, yeah. 
Yeah. 

687
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,200
Can you put that smoke out? 
It's hurting my eyes. 

688
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,320
Yeah. 
And then he goes to the pub and 

689
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,720
he smokes. 
Well, before we get there, did 

690
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:15,640
you notice that he quotes 
Picasso at one point and soon 

691
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:20,640
after he quotes Bernard Shaw and
and Marshall Mcluhan who who I 

692
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,840
only know from Annie Hall. 
Oh, Annie Hall. 

693
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,440
Yes, of course, yeah. 
Do do do you think he has? 

694
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,920
Marty has. 
I mean, he's a very, very clever

695
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,920
man and a great writer and a 
great performer. 

696
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,400
Do you think he had pretensions 
to be an intellectual? 

697
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:41,600
I think there is a, there's a 
documentary I've seen, I think 

698
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,160
it was, it was shown on Channel 
4. 

699
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,480
I, I believe it's available on 
YouTube as well. 

700
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,280
And it is him. 
And there's a moment where he's 

701
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,920
in his writing room, there's a 
typewriter on the desk and he's 

702
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,120
holding a bust of himself, 
right. 

703
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,760
And he's saying. 
All I have is what's in there. 

704
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,680
Yeah, that belongs to me. 
The thing to do is to keep 

705
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,880
people out of it. 
Well, unless you invite them in.

706
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,280
I'm inviting you in. 
Fine. 

707
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,160
But that's as a guest. 
You can come into my head, but 

708
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,680
my head is private. 
It belongs to me. 

709
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,280
I must fight to keep control of 
what's in there and not let 

710
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,280
other people get inside it and 
March all over it, you know? 

711
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,760
So that's the reason really that
I write. 

712
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,800
I write poetry, but I write 
poetry for me. 

713
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,440
And why do them? 
As I take the top off my head 

714
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,440
and let the ideas and the images
just fall out. 

715
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,320
But then it's only for me. 
I protect the inside of that, 

716
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,000
and I won't allow anybody in 
unless I invite them. 

717
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,320
So I distress psychiatrists. 
I don't want anybody coming 

718
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,240
inside my head. 
You know, it's like my house. 

719
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,000
That's what they want to get the
producers. 

720
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,560
That's where the machine wants 
to get inside your head. 

721
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,440
They want to take over the 
inside and turn it into what 

722
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,720
they want it to be. 
I, I think what he's driving at 

723
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,160
is the fact that there's a Marty
Feldman. 

724
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:00,640
And there was then the Marty 
Feldman, there was the 2 

725
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,960
characters. 
You know, Bruce Forsyth did a 

726
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,360
similar thing, and it's a very, 
it's that he did a very physical

727
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,160
thing. 
Where he would stand at the side

728
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,880
of the stage and when they said,
ladies and gentlemen, Bruce 

729
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,680
Forsyth, he would do a little 
double step, kick step from a 

730
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,680
dance. 
But all those people with dance 

731
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,840
experience know what a kick step
is, right? 

732
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,560
So he would do a little kick 
step and then go on. 

733
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,080
And he became Bruce Forsyth the 
entertainer. 

734
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,080
He wasn't the Bruce Forsyth that
was in the wings waiting to go 

735
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,280
on. 
And I think that's what Marty's 

736
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,360
driving at. 
He so he he went from being 

737
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,040
Bruce Forsyth to being Brucey, 
or exactly boy Bruce. 

738
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,560
Absolutely, yes. 
The mighty Atom. 

739
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,800
Yes, that's right. 
Exactly, exactly the same 

740
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:42,320
fellow. 
Yeah. 

741
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,000
So there's a moment and I think,
and he is Marty's incredibly 

742
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,120
well read. 
Oh, you know, and could talk 

743
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,040
about anything. 
To talk, talk with anybody about

744
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,720
anything and he had a knowledge 
of whether it was politics, 

745
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,360
whether it was travel, whether 
it was you name it, he would 

746
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,080
manage to try and find something
from it and derive the the most 

747
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,040
from that individual. 
A bit like being a sponge. 

748
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,400
He would soak up a huge amount 
of information. 

749
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,240
Did you think of it as an 
intellectual? 

750
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:16,960
Well, maybe, you know, maybe he 
got, he got a, a point in time 

751
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,240
where he thought I can get to 
here and anything up to this 

752
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,960
point, I'm no bother at all. 
Somebody asked me about it. 

753
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,000
I can write about it. 
I can make this funny. 

754
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,720
But there was stuff for which he
was constantly reading the whole

755
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:28,800
time and learning the whole 
time, I would imagine. 

756
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,760
But yeah, back, back to the back
to the program. 

757
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,120
So we have these, these 
children, as I, as I said, and, 

758
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,440
and then Marty's back at the 
fairground and he, he mentions 

759
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,880
this current nostalgia for 
childhood. 

760
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,360
He says fairgrounds are back, 
the 40s are back. 

761
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,920
Mickey Mouse watches are 
trending, amusement arcades are 

762
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:56,000
springing up all over London. 
And this, that's this prompts 

763
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,320
him to look back at his early 
career. 

764
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,680
He talks about touring in a 
comedy musical act called Saucy 

765
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,560
Girls of 52. 
That's right. 

766
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,840
Yeah. 52 and 53. 
Saucy. 

767
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,400
And and this is where he he then
is strolling around the deserted

768
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,360
and decrepit Wilton's musical. 
Wilton's musical? 

769
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,680
My Goodness, Yes. 
And a year later, the year after

770
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,400
this was filmed, it was the 
basis of that special show that 

771
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,960
Spike organised, that special 
charity thing that it was called

772
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,240
Wilton's, the handsomest hall in
town. 

773
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,240
Oh, right. 
That. 

774
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,200
That was there, was it? 
It was it was a fundraising 

775
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,280
event to try and restore 
Wilton's back to its former 

776
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,840
glory. 
And it was, it was televised and

777
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,480
it was all these comedians and 
comics and whatnot of the day 

778
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,520
recreating musical acts, 
obviously including Peter 

779
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,320
Sellers. 
And so like, but, but Marty's at

780
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,760
Wiltons and he's walking around.
Doesn't he, doesn't he end with 

781
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,840
a song or he ends with it? 
Yes. 

782
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,520
He does. 
Yes, he does. 

783
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,520
Which he which he kind of does 
that in Young Frankenstein at 

784
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,320
1:00. 
Yes, that's right. 

785
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,800
And he says he feels part he's 
you kind of get. 

786
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,600
You kind of get the feeling he 
feels a little bit born out of 

787
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,400
time. 
He feels part of the traditional

788
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,480
musical despite having been born
after. 

789
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,640
Yeah, I think he would have 
liked that vaudevillian, that 

790
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,600
type of thing. 
You know his because a lot of 

791
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:29,080
his comedy hugely physical, you 
know, was that very famous 

792
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,680
sketch that people keep showing 
whenever they talk about Marty, 

793
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:34,040
which which is the goes to the 
vets. 

794
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,480
You've got the animal in the in 
the box. 

795
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,640
Do you remember that? 
Yes, drags. 

796
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,800
So all of that is very hugely 
physical piece of comedy and 

797
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,600
that that ticks all of those 
boxes for musical and for 

798
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:46,960
vaudeville and that type of 
thing. 

799
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,720
So maybe he was and and and and 
has a look of those type of 

800
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:55,240
characters from there as his 
heroes that he that he tries to 

801
00:43:55,240 --> 00:44:00,200
to base his his comedy on. 
And then he interviewed Sandy 

802
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,080
Powell. 
Oh my goodness, both of them 

803
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,040
smoking on this occasion, just 
for balance. 

804
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:09,720
Yes, now Sandy Powell looks 
about 90, but he was actually 

805
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:13,200
only 68, probably. 34 Yeah, 
exactly. 

806
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:14,880
It was. 
They were different times, 

807
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:15,680
weren't they? 
There was. 

808
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,160
There was no. 
Do you know what I would 

809
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,200
suggest? 
Wine. 

810
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,520
A bad knife, bit of moisturizer,
you know, that sort of thing. 

811
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,000
No, no, no. 
I'll be fine. 

812
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,320
He's he's 15 years younger than 
Paul McCartney. 

813
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,880
I'm sorry, just say that again 
for context. 

814
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,840
He's 15 years What? 
He's 15 years younger than Paul 

815
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,520
McCartney is now. 
Yeah, so, I mean, Sandy does 

816
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,000
look as though he was there at 
the dawn of time. 

817
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,080
Good happens. 
Yeah, No, there's some. 

818
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,400
But again, you know, I mean, a 
lot of people will not know what

819
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:57,040
Sandy, who Sandy Powell is, but 
a very clearly a a massively 

820
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,880
important part of that time and 
and goes through this remarkable

821
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,360
act on stage with a 
ventriloquist because it turned 

822
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:08,920
it was vents, wasn't it? 
That was the thing. 

823
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,680
That was the point they were 
driving at, which leads onto 

824
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,680
something else. 
But he'd said used to get sent 

825
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,440
vent acts from time to time who 
were just terrible. 

826
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,680
And so he thought, I wonder if I
could do that. 

827
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,000
And he created this vent act 
that was absolutely ridiculous 

828
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,160
from start to finish. 
You know, he's having trouble 

829
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,160
making the making the puppet 
move. 

830
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,720
And, and he said, well, well, I 
only need this bit. 

831
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,480
And he takes the body and chucks
it away. 

832
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,640
And it's just, he's just got the
stick in his hand with the head 

833
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,160
on top, which he's tried to 
operate. 

834
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,800
And this this female assistant 
who's with him the whole time. 

835
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,320
So, yeah, the remarkable stuff. 
And of course, even then, you 

836
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,040
know the audience is rolling 
about laughing and and having a 

837
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,360
great time. 
I heard a recording of that act 

838
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,800
that Sandy Powell used to do 
right, years and years ago. 

839
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,040
And I remember thinking it was 
really, really funny and 

840
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,560
marvelling because it it must 
have been recorded in the 40s or

841
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:01,640
something, right? 
And marvelling and thinking 

842
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:02,880
that's so clever, that's so 
clever. 

843
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,840
And it's when he asked the 
dummy, ventriloquist dummy where

844
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,160
he's from or something. 
And because he's such a terrible

845
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,920
ventriloquist, he goes home from
that's right. 

846
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,920
And then he says the audience, 
he's trying to say 

847
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,400
Czechoslovakia. 
He's trying to say 

848
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,520
Czechoslovakia. 
I should have, said Leeds. 

849
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,400
I should have said Leeds, yeah, 
brilliant. 

850
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,280
But again, it's just the whole 
concept of having ventriloquist 

851
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,720
acts on the radio, I mean. 
Yeah. 

852
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,320
Well, we'll come. 
We'll come to that. 

853
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:37,640
Well, yes, it's. 
Even better than that? 

854
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,800
That's right. 
Yeah, Marty says again, 

855
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,000
philosophically. 
You can't write an act. 

856
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,920
An act is something you build. 
Yeah, yeah, OK. 

857
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:49,200
Which I suppose is, yeah, 
because basically Sandy Powell 

858
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,560
was saying he, he started with 
this one idea and then developed

859
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,640
it and developed it and added 
and subtracted and over time 

860
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,360
and, and over, you know, the, 
the course of a year or two 

861
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,760
years or three years and so many
different audience reactions and

862
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,520
whatnot. 
You, you hone. 

863
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,080
But that's it, you know, you 
start with something that you 

864
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,600
think, oh, this will never work.
And then you shave the edge off 

865
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,560
that and, and take that line 
out. 

866
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,760
And then that finds you over 
here and all of a sudden you've 

867
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,240
got something that, oh, hang on,
that's, that's actually quite 

868
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:21,440
doable. 
I can do that now. 

869
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,600
And you then you start getting 
the response from it and it 

870
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,000
becomes a roller coaster. 
You know, you, you really get 

871
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,960
stuck in the middle of it. 
Then Marty says one of the most 

872
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,320
important things in his life is 
music. 

873
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,920
Yes. 
And he talks about he he played 

874
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,480
jazz for a time. 
And although this isn't in the 

875
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,760
program, I did read an interview
he gave around the around this 

876
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,480
time talking. 
He was talking about when he was

877
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,880
in this band in the 50s, and he 
said it was a good group. 

878
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,000
Apart from me, he says. 
I was described in the national 

879
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,720
press as the worst trumpet 
player in the world. 

880
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,880
It was a yardstick to judge 
others by better than Marty 

881
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,760
Falburn. 
Yeah, it's, it's interesting. 

882
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,520
And he does make this connection
and This is why he goes in that 

883
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:12,800
direction, I suppose. 
But, you know, musicians make 

884
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,920
good comedians because they're 
under, they understand rhythm, 

885
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,640
they understand balance, they 
understand timing, you know 

886
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,880
where it comes from that. 
So that's his argument I think. 

887
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,680
Indeed. 
And and then we have John 

888
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,440
Hendricks, who's a jazz singer, 
and Annie Ross. 

889
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,440
It's fascinating to look at 
Marty, who sat at a table just 

890
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,720
in front of them and this, I 
assume it's Ronnie Scott's. 

891
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,720
I can't really place where it 
is, but they're little little 

892
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,720
jazz club and this is the act 
that's going on. 

893
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,520
And he's got a big broad smile 
on his face and he's nodding the

894
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,320
whole time in time with the with
the thing. 

895
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,600
And he's got a big glass of wine
and the and the cigarette and 

896
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,600
he's doing the whole 9 yards. 
And there's, you know, when, 

897
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,920
when the whole ending of the 
number comes up, the Umboire 

898
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,560
comes a Bodom and they hit the 
ending and he's always puts down

899
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,480
the glass, the applauding, you 
know, he absolutely loves it. 

900
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,600
What else does he have to do, 
though, in order to applaud? 

901
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,560
Always put a cigarette down, of 
course. 

902
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,960
Yes, yes, yes. 
Absolutely can't do it. 

903
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,320
You're going to waste it. 
Pop it down there and then and 

904
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:14,440
then have applause. 
Yeah. 

905
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,760
Yeah. 
But then we get to the most 

906
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,960
important part of the programme 
as far as I'm concerned. 

907
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,560
And listeners have been waiting 
for this. 

908
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,920
Yeah, Peter Sellers. 
Peter Sellers on the set of 

909
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,480
Magic Christian. 
I've never had so much fun in my

910
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,880
life. 
I had when we made those shows 

911
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,640
in any movie or in any play or 
in any show. 

912
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,360
But it sounded like fun. 
I I don't know, but I figured 

913
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,880
unless it's unless it's fun to 
do, isn't I'm never fun to watch

914
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,880
or listen? 
It was a great, great thrill 

915
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,040
after, say, spending a week in 
some God forsaken whole dying to

916
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,960
come back and have a ball on a 
Sunday. 

917
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:51,800
It was mild. 
Because you knew each other, it 

918
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:52,840
was a kind of helpful for you 
then. 

919
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:56,120
That's why playing Moriarty and 
me playing good, Faxton and 

920
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,400
Eddie playing it. 
We all used to have this thing 

921
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,240
going. 
Oh, there'll be two Min and Hen.

922
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:01,720
Yeah, yeah, More Blue Bottle and
Eccles. 

923
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,720
Yes, they both knew each. 
Other they did send to each 

924
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,280
other. 
There was others responses. 

925
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:06,600
Yeah. 
Was it together? 

926
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,040
The interesting thing about that
too was that Eccles and Blue 

927
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,320
Bottle or Min and Hen, they all 
have their own separate 

928
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,280
reactions to each other as as 
institute. 

929
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,800
I said at the top of this that I
thought that it was. 

930
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,760
It was one of the really very 
important interview with Peter 

931
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,240
and we've we've touched on the 
idea that the idea, the reason 

932
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:30,120
that Peter was so fluid and so 
honest. 

933
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:34,680
I want to say in in in speech 
marks is because he was talking 

934
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,680
to to Marty, because he liked 
Marty and a fellow comedian, you

935
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,040
know, and was and was giving 
these wonderful answers to 

936
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,160
questions and they were having a
really I thought they were a 

937
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,840
really good time together. 
You know, I, I really enjoyed 

938
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,080
that that chat between the two 
of them understand his comedy. 

939
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,360
Yeah, I'd love to have seen the 
full, the full interviews. 

940
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,200
And we we get more of it towards
the end of the show, right at 

941
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,640
the end. 
Marty says he he always felt 

942
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,120
that he was a child of the union
of Take It From Here and the 

943
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,440
Goons. 
Yeah, yes, absolutely. 

944
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,480
And he felt the goons were doing
the show for their own 

945
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:10,440
enjoyment. 
Yeah. 

946
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,920
Yeah, well that was always the 
case, wasn't it? 

947
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,760
That was Peter was a was a great
example of that was said he'd 

948
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,320
have a lousy week, but he knew 
that on a Sunday he would have 

949
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,960
the greatest time in his life 
because they'd go and record the

950
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,360
show and I. 
Was I was watching this? 

951
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,840
I was thinking, I wonder when 
that was that interview was 

952
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,960
recorded because thanks to Get 
back, we know because of 

953
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,400
Ringo's. 
Oh yes, that's right. 

954
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,360
Timetable that this that that. 
Filming of Magic Christian began

955
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,680
around February 69, and it 
certainly looks chilly, but I 

956
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,160
managed. 
I managed through some clever 

957
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,640
detective work. 
You know you're like Hercule 

958
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,640
Poirot. 
I know the exact day that that 

959
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,280
interview was recorded. 
Oh, go on. 

960
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,480
It was Monday the 10th of March 
1969. 

961
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,040
Not just the 10th of March, 
Monday the 10th. 

962
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,160
Monday and it was at Henley 
Station. 

963
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,080
Henley on Thames. 
I've just got Henley so I'm not 

964
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,520
sure, is there another? 
Is there a Henley as well as a 

965
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,280
Henley on? 
Thames, I'm not sure possibly, 

966
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,880
but yes, I just Henley. 
Henley will do for now. 

967
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:11,680
That's OK. 
Yep. 

968
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,160
We hear a a bit of a clip from a
Goon show, which was the episode

969
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,000
I'll met by Goon Light. 
Oh, OK. 

970
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:24,040
And Salas again says he, you 
know, he says again, he'd never 

971
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,200
had such a happy time as working
on the Goon Show. 

972
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,000
Yes. 
And he's talking about the 

973
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,600
characters as almost like actual
human beings. 

974
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,920
Well, I think that's probably 
right, isn't it? 

975
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,520
I think that they were very real
to him. 

976
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,800
You know, the characters that 
Spike creative array. 

977
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,080
What, what, what maybe that's 
different. 

978
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:50,240
I think the the the characters 
that that Spike created were 

979
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:54,280
fine on the page, but then 
became what they became because 

980
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,600
of those, because of Peter's 
involvement. 

981
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,000
He then became those characters 
and couldn't, you couldn't 

982
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,080
accept them as anything else. 
What was that whole thing about?

983
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,680
But Harry used to do a couple of
other voices as well, but they 

984
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,320
all sounded like Segan, you 
know? 

985
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,560
So consequently, he just kept on
that character and everybody 

986
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,520
else did all the other voices. 
Well, I think a part of that is 

987
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,280
the fact that he can then 
become, right? 

988
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,240
That's I'm not doing this. 
I'm not doing this one anymore. 

989
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:25,640
I'm doing this character. 
And then he creates a whole new 

990
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,200
thing for it. 
So he's enabling him to go 

991
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,280
right. 
I'm, this is a completely 

992
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,480
different character. 
I'm completely absorbed in this.

993
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,320
I'm completely absorbed in that 
one. 

994
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,360
And they and they became such 
extraordinary characters. 

995
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,480
But I do see what he's saying. 
And most importantly, John, most

996
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,720
importantly, I am not being 
Peter Sellers. 

997
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,000
Precisely. 
You see, no, he's not being 

998
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,360
Peter Sellers being somebody 
else, because he can't be Peter 

999
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,480
Sellers because he doesn't know 
who Peter Sellers is. 

1000
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,440
Very deep. 
The only reason we know when 

1001
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,560
he's being Peter Sellers is when
he's being married. 

1002
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:05,800
Yes. 
And then leaving the bride some 

1003
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,000
20 minutes later, you know, but.
That's that's another moving on 

1004
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,840
to the next one, Marty. 
Marty makes the point that 

1005
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,240
retrospectively, the goon show 
is is seen as a a breakthrough 

1006
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,360
show, like a game changer. 
But he says that it would, of 

1007
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,600
course, it wouldn't have felt 
like like that at the time, 

1008
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,560
which Sellers acknowledges. 
Yes, he says something about 

1009
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:26,080
just. 
Doing it. 

1010
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:29,880
If if they thought they were 
doing something revolutionary, 

1011
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,440
it would have killed it from the
word go. 

1012
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,960
Yeah, absolutely. 
Because it just, it was a stream

1013
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,920
of unconsciousness for a period 
of time, wasn't it? 

1014
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,960
And it just got they they they 
went, they did whatever they did

1015
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,360
in the week. 
They arrived on a Sunday, they 

1016
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,320
did the show. 
They had a huge fun with it and 

1017
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,480
people started loving it. 
But if they really thought about

1018
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,520
it as much as Spike thought 
about it, and that's the 

1019
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:56,000
interesting point because, you 
know, Peter and and Harry, they 

1020
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,160
weren't involved in the writing 
of anything. 

1021
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,600
So Spike hugely involved in 
everything. 

1022
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:06,000
He, he eats, sleeps and does the
whole 9 yards with this script. 

1023
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,720
He's created the whole thing 
from start to finish. 

1024
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:11,120
And he thinks, when am I due to 
have a nervous breakdown? 

1025
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,920
I'm going to book one in for 
this period of time. 

1026
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,760
But of course, all they have to 
do is go, oh, this is wonderful.

1027
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:18,320
And just absorb themselves in 
it. 

1028
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,920
So I, I do see what he's driving
at. 

1029
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,560
Yeah. 
Yeah, and we'll return to 

1030
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:27,880
sellers soon. 
But but Marty moves on. 

1031
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,840
He talks about starting out 
writing for radio. 

1032
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,160
I love this. 
But he said, he said sometimes I

1033
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,120
was paid money, sometimes 
overcoats. 

1034
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,480
Overcoats. 
I was the best dressed, worst 

1035
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:43,480
paid writer in the business. 
Yeah, I like that. 

1036
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,520
And Peter Brough is it this? 
Is it this textile? 

1037
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,040
Get me? 
Started Peter Brough at a 

1038
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:53,400
textile factory Well. 
Because he, because he retired 

1039
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,480
Archie, because he's Peter 
Brough is the ventriloquist 

1040
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,480
behind Archie. 
I think Andrews, yeah, Archie, 

1041
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:00,720
Andrew. 
I think the word ventriloquist 

1042
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:04,320
is used really loosely. 
Yes, yeah. 

1043
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,000
Educating Archie Guy. 
But he retired Archie in 50, No,

1044
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,040
in 61. 
And then he, Peter Brough, went 

1045
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,000
to work at his family's textile 
factory. 

1046
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:15,880
That's right. 
I believe so. 

1047
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,120
We see him there when Marty's 
interviewing him and he's 

1048
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,080
talking about, right, Marty's 
talking about writing for the 

1049
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:28,520
Archie TV show in the late 50s. 
He talks about looking through 

1050
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,080
the door into one of the 
dressing rooms at one point. 

1051
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,840
And Irene, he handles, and 
they're talking, talking to the 

1052
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,560
dummy like it's a real person. 
Like it's a real person and you 

1053
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,120
could sit. 
But The thing is, if you close 

1054
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,160
your eyes, you could see Irene. 
You're doing that. 

1055
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:41,440
Can't. 
You. 

1056
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,800
Well, I can imagine 30 years 
later, Irene, he handled doing 

1057
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,040
the same thing with Metal 
Mickey. 

1058
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,680
Exactly. 
It's exactly the same thing. 

1059
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,760
I mean, she's just, if it's in 
the room, she's going to talk to

1060
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:51,360
it. 
Yeah. 

1061
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,080
You know, Have you been my love?
All right. 

1062
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:57,240
Yeah. 
Look lovely, don't you? 

1063
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,800
Yeah. 
And of course, Peterborough 

1064
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,400
can't resist bringing out 
Archie. 

1065
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,640
Oh God, you just want to punch 
that puppet in the face, don't 

1066
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,080
you? 
And he does this little routine 

1067
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:09,680
and you can see his lips moving.
See. 

1068
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:11,720
His lips moving. 
I mean, not only. 

1069
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,320
I mean, this is the point, 
right? 

1070
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,480
There are ventriloquists. 
I've seen ventriloquists. 

1071
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:20,000
There are vent acts that you go,
that's really clever. 

1072
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,120
And I've, I've done my absolute 
utmost to try and do. 

1073
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,280
There's a, there's a course that
there's a number of 

1074
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,200
ventriloquists do and it's on 
online. 

1075
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,000
You can go online and on YouTube
and you watch them and they all 

1076
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,000
do similar things where they go 
through the alphabet and they 

1077
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,600
replace certain letters for 
other letters because the sound 

1078
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,520
is similar, right. 
So you can't, you can't say 

1079
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,400
that, but you can't. 
You like P will be replaced with

1080
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,920
D, but you do it in such a way 
that you can get away with it. 

1081
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,880
And so I've tried over time and 
it's hugely complicated to to re

1082
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,960
educate the inside of your mouth
to do it in a different way. 

1083
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,640
But there are vent acts out 
there and you go, this is 

1084
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,440
magnificent. 
Absolute. 

1085
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,520
You watch them. 
They are the head and the vent 

1086
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,360
is right next to them. 
And then the lips are not moving

1087
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:09,920
You. 
Yeah, you see the throat moving,

1088
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,000
but you're bound to see that 
happening. 

1089
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,480
But they're really, really very,
very good. 

1090
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,000
Yes, but but this Isn't this 
this? 

1091
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,680
Well, no, this is the problem is
that, you know, Peter Brough has

1092
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,040
thrown caution to the wind and 
thought, well, I used to do it 

1093
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:24,920
on the radio, I can do it on the
telly. 

1094
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,960
Nobody's going to be, they'll be
going to sort of. 

1095
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,640
And he just keeps opening his 
mouth when he. 

1096
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,680
I love those. 
I think the, the, the the Topper

1097
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:38,200
for me, if you like this whole 
sequence was he's doing this 

1098
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,520
terrible act in front of Marty 
Feldman and in the background 

1099
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,000
you can see all these women 
working in the factory. 

1100
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,520
That's right. 
Not even bothering to look up 

1101
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,600
that they, they don't give a 
damn about it. 

1102
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,520
That's they're totally 
indifferent to. 

1103
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,200
Heard it all before, it was bad 
then, it's bad now. 

1104
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,840
You can just imagine Peter 
Brough every day walking around 

1105
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,680
the factory with Archie, 
checking up on the work and 

1106
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,560
doing doing the ACT. 
Trying to keep his hand in, so 

1107
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:06,680
to speak. 
Yes, exactly. 

1108
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:07,800
Yeah, that's right. 
Yes. 

1109
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,520
I'll bring Archie around. 
It'd be fun. 

1110
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,200
Oh dear God. 
Don't put the puppet on please. 

1111
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,760
Instead of a bonus this year, 
love, we're going to we're going

1112
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,320
to give you an impromptu Archie 
Andrews concert. 

1113
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,680
Oh. 
You lucky people. 

1114
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:26,360
So Marty then says he thinks one
of the greatest double X of all 

1115
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,480
time is Morecambe and Wise. 
Quite right too. 

1116
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,280
And we see a clip, a black and 
white clip of of the boys and 

1117
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,240
then Eric, who sits like he's 
he's outside his house. 

1118
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,320
Like he's not letting Marty in. 
It's like he's he's about to put

1119
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,120
his keys in the front door and 
Marty's kind of door stepped him

1120
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,040
or something. 
Exactly. 

1121
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,040
Can I just ask you about the 
Watchtower? 

1122
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,160
Just arrived on his doorstep 
now. 

1123
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:50,880
A different kind of smoking 
here, I might add. 

1124
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,120
Eric's got a. 
Pipe on pipe, yes. 

1125
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,920
Because and was when was this 
year? 

1126
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,080
He might have been 2-3 years 
later. 

1127
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,520
He was voted Pipe Smoker of the 
Year of. 

1128
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,040
Course he was. 
Yeah. 

1129
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,200
So, yeah, but and he, he makes 
some reference to Gracie Fields 

1130
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,520
and I didn't catch the end of 
it. 

1131
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,360
Did you catch the end of it? 
I didn't make a note of that. 

1132
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,960
I just. 
I, I, I jot it down. 

1133
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,320
He talks about the evolution of 
the stooge. 

1134
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:16,240
That's right. 
Yeah. 

1135
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,120
And. 
And it kind of says that he and 

1136
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:22,400
Ern are both. 
Ernie's not a stooge because 

1137
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:27,360
they've both now become 
personalities and and he talks 

1138
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,560
about starting out in 1937, 
which was the year that Marty 

1139
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:31,800
was born. 
Wow. 

1140
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:35,640
Although Eric doesn't look that 
much older. 

1141
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,560
No, I must say that, I mean, 
Eric looked very well in that 

1142
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,400
picture, even though admittedly 
he had that. 

1143
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:47,440
He'd already had a couple of 
heart attacks in 1968, but after

1144
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,960
he had another couple of heart 
attacks a couple of years later,

1145
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,360
by the time he died, he did look
very, very old, you know, in 

1146
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,760
respect of that. 
But but yes, saying that when 

1147
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:03,360
they were Morecambe and Wise, as
a double act, Ernie could be 

1148
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,360
used as the stooge. 
He was the straight man. 

1149
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,240
But because he then became Ernie
Wise and Eric became Eric 

1150
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,240
Morecambe, who were Morecambe 
and Wise. 

1151
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,760
Then he said, well, you can't do
that anymore because he's 

1152
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,160
actually a known person, a known
individual. 

1153
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,080
Well, we've now both become 
personalities. 

1154
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:18,320
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1155
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,520
But I mean, a few years ago, but
say about 9 or 10 years ago, we 

1156
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,320
were just gag men. 
He was a straight man. 

1157
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:25,480
Yeah. 
And he fed me and I did the 

1158
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,720
comic line, you know, And that 
was it then. 

1159
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,360
Did you ever work separately 
before you worked together? 

1160
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,000
Only before we met, yeah. 
As juveniles, yeah. 

1161
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:38,560
I started out in about 1937 with
the That's true, yeah. 

1162
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,400
With on clubs working men's 
clubs up north in Lancaster. 

1163
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,080
I remember playing up north, all
these stage hands used to try to

1164
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,600
terrify everywhere you'd go. 
They'd say if you can please in 

1165
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:49,480
heat, please. 
Go well. 

1166
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,480
Yes, or there are a lot hardest 
lot in England. 

1167
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,320
I'm not standing up for Grace, 
you feels I'm not standing up 

1168
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,320
for you. 
Yeah, it's true though. 

1169
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,680
But Glasgow always definitely 
grave, you know, comics 

1170
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:02,640
graveyard. 
Oh, I used to be ill when the 

1171
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,400
Telecom came in, go to Glasgow 
and we did well there, we all 

1172
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,360
did well there, walked off to 
our own footsteps. 

1173
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,520
But we always did well. 
You know the fireman once said 

1174
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:11,360
it. 
They're getting to light you. 

1175
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:13,800
And we died. 
They're getting to light you, I 

1176
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:14,840
said. 
What do you mean? 

1177
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:15,760
He said. 
They never sheltered. 

1178
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:18,840
It's true, Their obsession, of 
course. 

1179
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,240
When they started, at first they
were They were inspired 

1180
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,280
enormously by Flanagan and 
Allen. 

1181
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,640
Yeah, yeah. 
You know, and there are 

1182
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,600
recordings of which Eric had 
said on, on a, on AI think it 

1183
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,840
was a Parkinson's show that 
there's there's evidence of, of 

1184
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,840
recordings of them at home 
sounding American. 

1185
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:40,000
You know, they've got like 
American accents and try almost 

1186
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,040
intimidate, intimidate, 
imitating, I beg your pardon, 

1187
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,160
Flanagan and and Alan in their 
in their early acts. 

1188
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:47,720
So that's how the inspiration 
went. 

1189
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:52,760
Kept to Marty chatting to a very
young dark haired Barry. 

1190
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,680
Took Barry. 
Took yes who? 

1191
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,000
I think it looked like that from
birth. 

1192
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,440
His yes. 
His company writing partner 

1193
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,640
smoking, by the way. 
Yes, yes, Marty says that. 

1194
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,840
Marty says that Barry was the 
architect of the scripts, and 

1195
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,960
Barry says that Marty was always
prepared to abandon things that 

1196
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:14,360
weren't working, even if they'd 
spent like days working on 

1197
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,040
something. 
Yeah, if it didn't feel right, 

1198
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:17,400
then there's no point pursuing 
it. 

1199
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,640
Marty said he he worked on a 
purely instinctive level and at 

1200
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:28,480
this point Barry would have been
marshaling together the nascent 

1201
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,760
Pythons. 
Yes, I suppose he would. 

1202
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,160
Yeah, for that, for that 
extraordinary meeting at BBC 

1203
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:34,920
Television Centre. 
Yeah. 

1204
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,280
But they said, will there be, 
will there be guests? 

1205
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,200
Oh, Oh yes, there might be 
guests and, and and will there 

1206
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,680
be musical numbers? 
Well, is it very possible 

1207
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,720
musical impossible, right? 
Well, just go off and and and 

1208
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,600
and and deliver 13 episodes, 
right? 

1209
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,600
OK, never anything like it in 
your life. 

1210
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,080
And Matthew talks about solitary
writers who collaborate with the

1211
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:01,040
world and are always asking 
others what they think of their 

1212
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,840
work. 
He says you spend more time with

1213
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,960
your writing partner than you do
with your wife. 

1214
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:06,840
That's right. 
Yes. 

1215
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,680
Earlier on as well. 
I, I passed over it. 

1216
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,320
He mentioned that thing I, I 
quoted right at the top of the 

1217
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,760
show about comedy being like 
sex. 

1218
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,680
And. 
And at this point, though, he 

1219
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,920
says it's embarrassing, telling 
your bad ideas to a stranger. 

1220
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,040
It's like taking all your 
clothes off as someone you don't

1221
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:24,720
know. 
Yeah. 

1222
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,160
With a writing partner, you 
don't mind being mentally naked.

1223
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:33,800
Whether I want to have images of
Barry Took mentally naked, I'm 

1224
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:36,200
not so sure. 
Or Marty for that matter. 

1225
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,000
Yes, keeping his glasses on for 
Barry. 

1226
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,600
And of course, how, How could 
you not have Dennis Norden? 

1227
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,560
In Dennis Norden and. 
Frank Muir? 

1228
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,640
Well, Frank's not there. 
No, Frank's not there, but that 

1229
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:51,520
was because it was that right. 
The writing partner with Dennis 

1230
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,520
Norden and and smoking, 
obviously, you know, so smoking 

1231
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,640
just a good old. 
If there's a trait that happens 

1232
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,040
through the whole thing, it's 
the smoking episode. 

1233
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:04,160
This one, it is there. 
There was a moment where he he 

1234
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,600
was watching one of his own 
episodes with his wife Loretta 

1235
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,920
the dog and I assume his agent, 
but I could I couldn't find the 

1236
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:10,960
name of his agent. 
Did you? 

1237
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,800
I couldn't work out who that 
bloke was. 

1238
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,600
No, I thought it was his agent, 
but maybe I wasn't mistaken. 

1239
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:20,040
But Marty's watching this 
programme, He's watching Marty 

1240
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,440
on TV basically, as you do. 
They're laughing and he's Stony 

1241
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,080
faced, isn't? 
He yes, well, it's that thing, 

1242
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,520
isn't it? 
It's that I'm trying to decipher

1243
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,760
who it might have been Orson 
Welles. 

1244
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,920
And it was Orson Welles who 
said, you know, can you watch 

1245
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,760
your own movie script? 
No, not really. 

1246
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,440
Why? 
Because, well, I'd want to, I'd 

1247
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,320
be able to just pick fault with 
them the whole time. 

1248
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,720
And I'd do the much better if I 
had the opportunity to do. 

1249
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,960
Maybe that's, you know, what 
Marty's talking about there and 

1250
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,040
and looking at and thinking I 
shouldn't have done that. 

1251
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,040
Maybe I should have done that. 
Which makes the whole idea of, 

1252
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,120
you know, you've created 
something very special. 

1253
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,160
You've gone through the whole 
writing thing, you've recorded 

1254
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,560
it, you've done the location 
shots, you've done the whole 9 

1255
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,120
yards. 
But then you're watching it 

1256
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:05,400
thinking, oh, I should have done
better. 

1257
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:10,240
Like I just like a, like the 
whole thing would be just like a

1258
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,440
miserable experience. 
Unless you really thought, well,

1259
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,960
bugger it, that was great. 
Let me do it better next time. 

1260
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:17,400
Let me create something 
different. 

1261
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:23,240
Yeah, I'm sure he's not alone in
terms of comedians or comics not

1262
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,280
liking watching themselves. 
Yes, exactly on the. 

1263
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:29,640
Screen sellers in particular. 
Oh well, yeah, although as you 

1264
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,440
were saying on the show the 
other week, chances are that 

1265
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:34,560
he'd he'd watch Mr. Topaz quite 
a bit. 

1266
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:36,920
Yeah, you know, interesting that
isn't it? 

1267
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:40,080
Yeah, Marty says. 
By the time I see a show on the 

1268
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,600
screen, it's irrelevant because 
of I've already moved on to the 

1269
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:43,680
next thing. 
Exactly. 

1270
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:49,920
Yeah, you see him filming a 
sketch as well on a on a street 

1271
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,320
with Warren Mitchell. 
Yes, that's wrong with Warren 

1272
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,400
Mitchell. 2 millionaires playing
football on the street. 

1273
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,200
Yeah, they arrive in their in 
their Rolls Royces, their 

1274
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,160
respective Rolls Royces, and 
then jump out with the ball and 

1275
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,080
then one of them stands in goal 
and then the other one starts 

1276
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,200
shooting. 
But there is a couple of 

1277
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,520
interesting things if you look 
at it from a filming point of 

1278
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:10,960
view. 
And the gag itself is actually 

1279
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,840
quite nice. 
I have seen the the the sketch 

1280
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:16,600
of the the whole sketch and it 
it it does it goes on quite 

1281
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,240
well. 
But from a, from a film making 

1282
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:25,960
point of view, they drive in on 
one take, they get out of the 

1283
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:27,640
car and they stop almost 
immediately. 

1284
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,240
And Warren Mitchell is one of 
the first people to say no, no, 

1285
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,080
no, no, this is all wrong. 
It's not right. 

1286
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,320
And that there's something's 
wrong about the whole thing. 

1287
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,600
Is it the positioning of of, of 
the goal posts? 

1288
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,000
Is it the, the, the cars are too
close together? 

1289
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,680
Something very, very, very, very
minute. 

1290
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:47,640
But it's changed the beat of 
that particular moment enough 

1291
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:49,320
for them to go. 
No, no, let's do it again, you 

1292
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:53,720
know, but it's it's quite an 
entertaining watch to to to look

1293
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,400
at them creating this thing and 
then and then shooting. 

1294
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,240
Goals at each other, with all 
these kids on the street, with 

1295
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:01,600
all these. 
Kids on the street, yeah. 

1296
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:04,800
Yeah, yeah. 
There's a football, there's a 

1297
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,200
just before that, isn't he? 
He's part of a celebrity 11, I 

1298
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:13,160
think maybe a variety club 
football thing, and that's 

1299
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,360
shooting and scoring in a match 
somewhere. 

1300
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,840
Just after going back to speak 
to Dennis about writing for 

1301
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,800
films, we're back on the set of 
The Magic Christian. 

1302
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,240
Yes. 
And you see, well, you hear Joe 

1303
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,439
McGrath, the director, the 
unmistakable voice of Joe 

1304
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,439
McGrath. 
And, and you get a glimpse. 

1305
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,960
It's, it's the scene, of course,
where you've got the hot dog 

1306
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,840
vendor. 
And the hot dog vendor in the 

1307
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,160
film is played by Victor Madden.
But I'm telling you now, the guy

1308
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:49,319
we see as the hot dog vendor is 
not Victor Madden. 

1309
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:52,720
It's not Victor Madden, unless 
I'm very much mistaken, so I 

1310
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:56,680
don't know whether they had a 
stand in or or a stunt hot dog 

1311
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,359
vendor. 
Well, yeah, I mean, I thought 

1312
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:02,840
that looking at it. 
But then although the train is 

1313
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:08,520
moving and there is a moment and
it's only a brief moment, but 

1314
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,000
there is a moment where the the 
hot dog vendor and his hot dog 

1315
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,319
cart is attached to the side of 
the train, enabling them to get 

1316
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:18,279
the shot that they're looking 
for, you know, because it's a 

1317
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:21,040
fixed camera position. 
So it may well have been a stunt

1318
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:25,319
double. 
I don't have any information 

1319
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:28,240
regarding it to say who it was. 
So it could have been a stand 

1320
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:32,840
in, but very clearly, you know, 
it's about that. 

1321
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,080
It's it's one of those scenes. 
How much did how it's out. 

1322
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,120
Yeah, just a moment and it goes 
off and yes, looking and the 

1323
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:42,560
idea that he's looking for money
and the trains pulling away. 

1324
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,680
But yes, Victor Madden attached 
to the side of the train. 

1325
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,080
It's a nice on location piece I 
must say. 

1326
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,120
Yeah, Marty says one of the 
reasons that British comics fail

1327
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,760
at the cinema or, or many fail 
at the cinema is they don't 

1328
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:58,480
understand the mechanics of film
making. 

1329
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,960
And given an unsympathetic 
director, they're absolutely 

1330
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,120
lost. 
The ones that do succeed have 

1331
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:06,960
taken the trouble to learn the 
technique. 

1332
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:12,160
And Sellers, of course, who 
loves his gadgets and technology

1333
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,160
and whatnot. 
You see Sellers talking about 

1334
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,200
things like film equipment, like
these new Italian dollies. 

1335
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:24,400
Yes. 
Dolly, Dolly cameras, Dolly 

1336
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:25,400
cameras. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1337
01:10:26,440 --> 01:10:29,080
And he's talking about a film 
that he he'd recently made where

1338
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,320
filming was difficult just due 
to the cumbersome equipment. 

1339
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,440
And then he looks at the camera 
and says go and see LSB Turkless

1340
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:41,200
folks. 
Which I think he'd disowned the 

1341
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:43,080
film by that point, but who 
knows the. 

1342
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:45,680
Equipment was incredible, 
absolutely incredible. 

1343
01:10:46,480 --> 01:10:50,000
And so they didn't have any of 
these new little Italian dollies

1344
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,440
or whatnot with tiny tracks 
going through doorways. 

1345
01:10:53,640 --> 01:11:00,240
They had these huge things that 
people do, these guys. 

1346
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,160
And you know, you used to have 
to try and do shots getting out 

1347
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:04,480
of cars. 
Doing. 

1348
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:06,680
This. 
And instead of, you know, 

1349
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:11,040
putting it on a crab Dolly and 
zooming back like every it's 

1350
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,920
common practice now. 
And we were sitting for hours, I

1351
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:15,760
mean, waiting. 
And I said, why don't you 

1352
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,080
fellas? 
So the lighting camera was very 

1353
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,080
bright. 
He said, don't ask me nothing to

1354
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:22,040
do with me. 
You know. 

1355
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,440
Anyway, go and see Alice V 
Tuckers, folks. 

1356
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:26,280
It's you'll never notice it on 
the film. 

1357
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,320
It's it's extraordinary to to to
think that, you know, that 

1358
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:33,800
something as simple as a Dolly 
track, what used to be a Dolly 

1359
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,760
track, and then they combine the
two things to become a Dolly 

1360
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,320
camera with its own track, you 
know? 

1361
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,600
Yeah. 
Enable it to go from point A to 

1362
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,720
point B and that and that. 
And similarly, people who 

1363
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,080
understand film and maybe are 
not understood as much. 

1364
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:49,960
Jerry Lewis is a great example 
of this. 

1365
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,400
And the Mersch group. 
I know we've touched on the 

1366
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:57,360
Mersch group in the past, but of
course, Jerry Lewis is often 

1367
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:02,240
regarded and and quoted as being
the individual that suddenly 

1368
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:07,040
discovered the whole idea of, of
having video playback for a 

1369
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:08,360
take. 
Instead of having to wait for 

1370
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,720
rushes to, to come back, you 
know, send the film off to come 

1371
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,160
back. 
He would have his own video 

1372
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:19,600
camera adjacent or next next to 
the actual film camera. 

1373
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,560
So we would have an idea of what
that was. 

1374
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:27,040
Well, what Blake Edwards did on 
the Party in Point of fact, with

1375
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,440
with help of the Mersh Group, 
was to develop with, with 

1376
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:34,400
Panavision a camera that had 
you're taking film with this 

1377
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:39,600
camera, but on the side of it is
video equipment then being sent 

1378
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,800
an image being sent to a 
television monitor. 

1379
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,480
So you could do exactly the same
thing, but that's only 

1380
01:12:45,480 --> 01:12:48,320
understanding the film. 
You know, when you understand 

1381
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,600
the concept of the film, which I
think is what Pete's driving at,

1382
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,480
when you understand the concept 
of film, then you think, I can 

1383
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:56,320
do this and I want to be able. 
This will make things much 

1384
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,280
better. 
And I think when you know, Jerry

1385
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,280
Lewis and and Blake Edwards 
importantly have created this 

1386
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,800
between the two of them and come
up with something new, which is 

1387
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,480
what he's driving at. 
Recognising the possibilities 

1388
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:08,600
rather than the limitations. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

1389
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,120
What can I do instead of this is
all it does? 

1390
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:12,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I see that. 

1391
01:13:13,480 --> 01:13:16,720
And I think Marty asks Sellers 
about if he misses performing in

1392
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,760
front of an audience, and he 
says he doesn't miss, you know, 

1393
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:22,520
not having an audience when 
working on films. 

1394
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,640
And he he talks about a film. 
He doesn't mention it, but it's 

1395
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,440
kiss me stupid that he. 
That he didn't do. 

1396
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:29,160
He did. 
That he. 

1397
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:30,400
Didn't do it. 
He was talking about. 

1398
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,760
Billy Wilde, wasn't it? 
Yeah, and Wilde, we encourage 

1399
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,400
people onto the set while 
filming, and he didn't like that

1400
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:38,160
at all. 
No. 

1401
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:40,560
No, it's interesting, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

1402
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:44,120
To, to, to be allowed to be 
given so much leeway by certain 

1403
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:46,880
directors and then others go no,
no, just say the words. 

1404
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,160
Could you imagine Kubrick 
allowing members of the public 

1405
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:51,200
just to? 
God. 

1406
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:55,040
Turn up and. 
He would spend 20 minutes 

1407
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:57,440
arguing to people about have 
you, haven't you already had a 

1408
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:00,480
tea break? 
You know, we just get the shot 

1409
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:01,520
done. 
Well, we've gotta have a tea 

1410
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,360
break of, you know, bloody hell 
yeah. 

1411
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,600
And then back to Eric Morgan. 
Back to Eric. 

1412
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,840
Yep, talking about the 
irritations of films or making 

1413
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,640
films because too many close-ups
and sort of this fragmented 

1414
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,320
filming style which. 
That's what he was driving at 

1415
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,320
with the American audience. 
Yeah, from the films. 

1416
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:24,440
They wanted loads of of 
close-ups of the two of them. 

1417
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:28,160
Yeah. 
And not enough master shots so 

1418
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,640
they can actually do the do the 
little bit of business that they

1419
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,200
wanted to do. 
It kept cutting away. 

1420
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:36,680
And he was obviously mentioning 
there that you, if you do that 

1421
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,880
in camera, then you, you, you 
lose what's going on. 

1422
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,400
They didn't do as much of that 
on, on the television show, in 

1423
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:44,640
point of fact. 
Well, they, they, they'd 

1424
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,440
obviously learnt from that. 
And, and a great many of those 

1425
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,840
sequences where there is a great
deal of physical business is in 

1426
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,360
either a long tracking shot and 
they're following one of all of 

1427
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:00,240
the characters from point A to 
point B or occasionally it's cut

1428
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,480
from a couple of other cameras. 
But very rarely do they do 

1429
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,240
close-ups which the American 
audience were very keen on. 

1430
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:10,520
And then finally back to Dudley.
I was working on a television 

1431
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:16,560
thing once, a comedy thing, and 
the director was saying to an 

1432
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,240
actor apart from Peter and 
myself, you know, do this, do 

1433
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,840
that. 
And I knew actually, I, I felt 

1434
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:23,920
very strongly that this wasn't 
going to pull off the point that

1435
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:25,880
we wanted to make. 
And I said, I don't want to 

1436
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,640
interfere, but, or rather, I do 
want to interfere, but that 

1437
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:30,400
doesn't seem to me as if that's 
going to make the point. 

1438
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:32,960
And he said, no, you know, I'm 
directing this. 

1439
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,680
Fair enough. 
And then I sort of let my 

1440
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,320
anxiety about it say it again, 
you know, and I said, you know, 

1441
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,160
I really feel that that's just 
not going to work. 

1442
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:45,120
And and of course, it created a 
great deal of rage and 

1443
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,400
frustration in me and a lot of 
ill feeling, I think, between 

1444
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,880
us. 
But it's that sort of situation 

1445
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:51,880
I want to avoid. 
It's I'm going to, you know, do 

1446
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,320
a film where if I'm wrong, I'm 
wrong, but where I can set it 

1447
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,200
up, you know, shot by shot. 
I'd like to sort of map out each

1448
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,680
shot and and do it that way. 
I think that's what I want, that

1449
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,880
control. 
Marty's closing remarks that 

1450
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,080
basically he says someday he 
would he would like to direct a 

1451
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:10,600
film. 
And we see him and Loretta in 

1452
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,280
their new home. 
And then over the credits, as 

1453
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:17,000
the credits roll, Marty says, 
I'm already starting work in my 

1454
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,200
first film as a writer and 
performer. 

1455
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:22,160
I've no idea where it will lead 
and I don't really care. 

1456
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,200
I'm doing what I want to do and 
that's enough. 

1457
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,120
Well, there we go. 
And that film was Every home 

1458
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:28,800
should have one. 
Every home should have one, 

1459
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,040
right? 
Which began shooting the first 

1460
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:38,000
week of August 1669 and 
screenplay by Marty Norden and 

1461
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:40,360
Tuk. 
Right, of course, the 

1462
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:46,480
powerhouses Norden and Tuk. 
Yeah, and we all know every home

1463
01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:49,400
should have one. 
It's it's Christmas Day viewing 

1464
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,520
most, most years, isn't it? 
Who hasn't seen it lately? 

1465
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,400
Hands up. 
All right, put your hands down. 

1466
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,440
Fair enough. 
So that's that. 

1467
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:03,600
Really great documentary. 
Huge fun and so much packed into

1468
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,440
45. 
Minutes yes, absolutely. 

1469
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:10,080
I would like to think that there
was probably what hour and a 

1470
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,680
half maybe a bit more and 
they've they've really had to 

1471
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:16,600
hack it down to bits to get it 
to a sort of 45 minute thing. 

1472
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:19,560
But it would be lovely if 
there's if there's a a longer 

1473
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:21,520
version knocking about or 
somebody, yeah, just to get 

1474
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:24,600
their hands on it. 
But but the seller stuff is 

1475
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:25,640
wonderful. 
Yes. 

1476
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:29,400
I really think that that's one 
of Peter's best moments. 

1477
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,160
He's almost as though he's 
they're oblivious almost to the 

1478
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:35,000
camera being there. 
It's just the two of them 

1479
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,920
chatting. 
And that's what you want. 

1480
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:41,440
You want that sort of Marty 
respects Peter, Peter respects 

1481
01:17:41,440 --> 01:17:43,040
Marty. 
They're just having a bit of a 

1482
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:47,920
chat about this whole thing. 
And in fact, all of those 

1483
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,040
individuals involved, you know, 
Barry took and, and Dennis 

1484
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,200
Norton and, and all of those 
just, it's like we've captured a

1485
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,200
moment between the two of them 
and they're just explaining 

1486
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,240
this, chatting about stuff and 
making comparisons. 

1487
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:03,200
It's really, really compelling 
viewing. 

1488
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,640
So and I think it's still on 
also on YouTube, but it's also 

1489
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,880
on the iPlayer, yes, if you've 
got the BBC iPlayer, so check 

1490
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,960
that out as well. 
Yes, I'm just thinking, you know

1491
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:15,760
what could have been? 
Could you imagine? 

1492
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:21,000
I hate to use the phrase but 
like a buddy movie comedy in the

1493
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:27,480
70s with Sellers and Feldman. 
Sellers and Feldman, wow, look 

1494
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,200
well, he'd he'd, he'd have had a
go at Loretta, wouldn't he? 

1495
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:35,880
Very clear, please. 
Nobody's wife was safe, though. 

1496
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:41,280
When Sellers know about, I think
that I think there would, there 

1497
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:43,800
would have been a very 
interesting writing process 

1498
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:48,000
where, you know, Marty would 
have taken a bit of writing. 

1499
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,160
I don't think Peter would have 
taken any part of the writing 

1500
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:52,160
whatsoever. 
He wouldn't have mind being 

1501
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,600
involved in a project, but I 
don't think he would have wanted

1502
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:57,960
to take any part in the writing 
of it because the words, as we 

1503
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:02,760
all know, are kind of secondary 
to the immediacy of the 

1504
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:04,840
performance. 
What am I trying to do here? 

1505
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:07,200
Or you've got to get from this 
point over here to over there 

1506
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:09,120
and see these lines along the 
way. 

1507
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:10,760
Right. 
Let me cross that bridge when I 

1508
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:12,160
get to it. 
That's what Peter would have 

1509
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,560
done. 
But, you know, if, if Joe 

1510
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:17,920
McGrath had have been directing,
they'd have probably let him get

1511
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:19,800
away with it. 
If somebody else had have been 

1512
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:21,640
directing, well, it'd have been 
a fallout, you know? 

1513
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:25,280
I'm I'm thinking in this 
fictional scenario, Mel Brooks. 

1514
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:29,880
Brooks Yeah. 
Well, you know, in that case, I 

1515
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,360
mean, Mel did a fair amount of 
ad libbing himself, you know, 

1516
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:36,680
and Marty was not. 
There's some some of the great 

1517
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,960
moments in Young Frankenstein 
are things that Marty just comes

1518
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,280
out with off the top of his 
head, as many of them did. 

1519
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:45,880
There are there are the words, 
but there's also those other 

1520
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:47,840
moments that just go, oh, that's
genius. 

1521
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,400
Keep that in. 
Although for me, the best line 

1522
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:57,440
in Young Frankenstein will 
always be he was my boyfriend. 

1523
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:04,040
He was my boyfriend, Yeah, Felt 
bluker. 

1524
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:08,240
Bluker. 
Horse in the background. 

1525
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,880
Love it. 
Before we started recording, you

1526
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:17,560
mentioned that your dad who's of
advanced age. 

1527
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,800
He's indeed. 
Yes, he's 92. 

1528
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,280
Goodness me, well done. 
You said that you watched the 

1529
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,520
Marty show with him. 
Yeah, and. 

1530
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:30,200
What was his thoughts? 
Well, he, as I say, advancing, 

1531
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,120
he's 92. 
He stopped paragliding. 

1532
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:34,880
He's decided that's probably for
the best. 

1533
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,440
What were his balance issues and
various bits and pieces. 

1534
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:41,760
But he was familiar with Marty 
and and, and one of the the 

1535
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,480
things he said was he's memory 
not being the greatest, but he's

1536
01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:46,960
good with faces. 
And if you're going to identify 

1537
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,360
somebody, Marty's face is 
probably one of the best places 

1538
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:51,600
anyway. 
Where have I seen him before? 

1539
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,800
And I said, oh, young 
Frankenstein. 

1540
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:57,480
He went young Frankenstein. 
So I had to show him pictures of

1541
01:20:57,480 --> 01:20:58,840
young Frank. 
Oh, him. 

1542
01:20:58,840 --> 01:20:59,920
Yes, that's right. 
Right. 

1543
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:02,280
OK. 
And so we started watching the 

1544
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:06,040
whole thing and apart from going
smokes a lot, doesn't he? 

1545
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:07,840
Which he does, which is a 
general. 

1546
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:12,120
Yeah, that's true. 
He said he looks funny. 

1547
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:14,880
He's got a funny look. 
And, and I think that's 

1548
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:19,800
important, even though, as we 
touched on earlier, the idea 

1549
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,600
that Marty may have considered 
himself to be an intellectual, 

1550
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,200
very well read, but he has a 
funny look. 

1551
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:32,200
And dad, of course, remembers 
educating Archie very well and 

1552
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:36,440
wasn't familiar with the idea 
that that Marty had written for 

1553
01:21:36,440 --> 01:21:37,960
him. 
And because we had this 

1554
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,200
conversation about, well, you 
know, educating Archie man on 

1555
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:42,320
the radio, he said, that's 
right. 

1556
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:46,960
And so we, I managed to find 
some footage of Archie on 

1557
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,120
YouTube with Peter Brough and we
showed it. 

1558
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,520
And I said, that's Peter Brough.
Who's the, who's the 

1559
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:54,720
ventriloquist there? 
Look. 

1560
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,680
And he said, oh, right. 
He said, Ara's lips supposed to 

1561
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,040
be moving. 
I said, well, no, not really, 

1562
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:02,800
But he's, he's come from the 
radio, you see. 

1563
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:04,440
So it's difficult to make that 
transition. 

1564
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:06,640
Oh, OK, right, fine, fair 
enough. 

1565
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:10,360
Well, you know, understood. 
But he understood who Marty was.

1566
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:14,240
And then there was a couple of 
there's a couple of compilations

1567
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,080
and they're really well worth 
checking out actually on on 

1568
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,160
YouTube. 
And Marty Feldman from his TV 

1569
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:23,680
show in full fled action, you 
know, throwing himself a lot 

1570
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,040
like he wouldn't believe. 
And dad was rolling about 

1571
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:28,400
laughing. 
So I mean, it's still, it's 

1572
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,680
still ticks boxes now, you know,
if you want physical humour 

1573
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:35,640
going back to those people like 
Buster Keaton, like the Harold 

1574
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:38,360
Lloyd, like the Charlie 
Chaplins, Well, Marty could have

1575
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:41,080
encapsulates all of that in a, 
in a, in a different way. 

1576
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:44,080
He, he's got a funny look about 
it, but he's, he's, he 

1577
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:46,560
understands that. 
And what he does is he, he, he 

1578
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:50,680
takes that and then pushes it to
a different place and creates 

1579
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:54,160
different characters and 
scenarios and uses it to the 

1580
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:57,640
best of his ability. 
And we, you know, the dad hadn't

1581
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:00,000
seen this stuff. 
I don't think he'd seen the 

1582
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,040
television show at all. 
And so watching that and 

1583
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:06,120
thought, but this was really 
laughing, tears rolling down his

1584
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:06,920
face. 
And that's that. 

1585
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,520
And that's the type of physical 
humour. 

1586
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:12,360
He's a huge fan of Dave Allen. 
They dad's always loved Dave 

1587
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:14,920
Allen, particularly those those 
sketches that he did, those 

1588
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:18,600
lovely moments, something simple
like it was a it was the church 

1589
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,480
thing and they were polishing 
the they were cleaning the 

1590
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:23,680
windows and the the stained 
glass and, and, and he polished 

1591
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,160
the windows and the stained 
glass was cut. 

1592
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,520
The stain was coming off the 
glass, you know, so howls of 

1593
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,040
laughter. 
But that's the that's sort of 

1594
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,080
physical humour. 
But yeah, no, he enjoyed it 

1595
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:36,840
enormously and I think I'm going
to show him Sherlock Holmes, 

1596
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:39,520
smarter brother and yellow beard
as well, which I think he would 

1597
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:42,640
not, he would like enormously. 
Yeah, there's, there's boobies 

1598
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:44,760
in that there. 
Oh well, you know, you've got to

1599
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:46,440
get your kick somewhere these 
days. 

1600
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:52,120
So, John, so thank you for 
coming back to talk about this 

1601
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,680
wonderful documentary. 
Absolute pleasure man anytime. 

1602
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:57,760
Give me a shout. 
I believe you've been spending 

1603
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,560
much of your time in the last 
few months sitting in airport 

1604
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,280
departure lounges. 
Sitting at I just, you know, 

1605
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:06,760
it's one of those things where 
if, if you'd said to me 30 years

1606
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:08,680
ago, do you know, you're going 
to be, you're going to be 

1607
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:13,600
jetting off to exciting 
locations to do bits and pieces.

1608
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:15,400
I wouldn't have believed it. 
But yes, at the start of the 

1609
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:19,640
year in February, I was off to 
Los Angeles to cover the Taurus 

1610
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:25,040
World Stunt Awards, which were 
the awards and still are the, 

1611
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:29,080
the, the foremost awards for 
stunt professionals in the world

1612
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:32,280
where, where it's film 
particularly. 

1613
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:37,440
And so the idea was that they 
needed recognition and the Red 

1614
01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:41,560
Bull and the, the guy who 
created Red Bull, a guy called 

1615
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,800
Dieter Matashitz was the guy who
was responsible for all of this 

1616
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,760
and said, yes, let's do that, 
Let's create an award, which 

1617
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:52,360
they did back back in 2001. 
It's still going now. 

1618
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,680
And this year I got an 
opportunity to go onto the red 

1619
01:24:54,680 --> 01:25:00,440
carpet and interview some folk 
and the, the, the world's, the 

1620
01:25:00,440 --> 01:25:03,280
world's great stunt performers 
and then go in and see the show.

1621
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:07,760
So that was huge. 
And what was even more exciting 

1622
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:10,240
from my point of view, we, we 
were all in there watching the 

1623
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,760
show. 
They've created an award for a, 

1624
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:17,920
a Stunt icon award. 
They've always had a lifetime 

1625
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:21,160
achievement, but that normally 
goes to a performer or a 

1626
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:24,400
coordinator and this year was no
exception. 

1627
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:27,040
But then they created a new 
award called the Stunt Icon 

1628
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:32,280
Award and it was presented to 
Arnold Schwarzenegger and his 

1629
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:36,960
stunt. 11 of his stunt double s 
came out on the stage to pass 

1630
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,760
this this information on and to 
tell the world that, you know, 

1631
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,480
this year's recipient is Arnold 
Schwarzenegger. 

1632
01:25:43,480 --> 01:25:46,160
The room then went black. 
A spotlight went in the corner 

1633
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,960
of the stage and the big bugger 
walked out on stage and the 

1634
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:51,440
whole room went bloody hell. 
It's just unbelievable. 

1635
01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:53,560
We didn't know he was coming. 
And there he was. 

1636
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:56,880
And he gave a a very passionate 
speech about how important stunt

1637
01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:01,440
performers are and, and how they
are the the bread and butter of 

1638
01:26:01,440 --> 01:26:03,720
the business. 
And then ended with those 3 

1639
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:06,880
words, I'll be back. 
And then went off and it was an 

1640
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,080
extraordinary experience. 
So that was huge fun and I got 

1641
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:12,160
to do lots of interviews while I
was out there, so it was great 

1642
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:13,000
working. 
Not. 

1643
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:14,640
Not hardly though, I guess. 
I guess. 

1644
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,520
No, sadly, no, no, he was in and
out like a rat of a drain pipe. 

1645
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,360
He arrived and then was shot out
the other side and put into a 

1646
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:26,400
car and driven off at speed. 
But I dare say that if you've 

1647
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,440
got a couple of drinks down him 
and threw a cigar in his 

1648
01:26:28,440 --> 01:26:29,840
direction, he'd probably want to
stay in. 

1649
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:31,880
Do you know have a chat? 
The way you were building that 

1650
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,760
up, for a moment I thought that 
the recipient of the Stunt Icon 

1651
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:38,000
Award would be was was going to 
be you. 

1652
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,480
You know, in an ideal world I've
had this dream. 

1653
01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:45,640
I think it's safe to say I 
wander out on stage and people 

1654
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:48,520
are going, who's the bloke in 
the ill fitting tuxedo? 

1655
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:50,720
Oh, it's him. 
Is it a good grief? 

1656
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,360
And the carpet slippers, the. 
Carpet slippers and the and the 

1657
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:57,440
Radio Times under his arm. 
Yes, that'll be me then. 

1658
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:00,120
Oh, he's getting an award. 
Oh, for bless him. 

1659
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:03,320
Go on, let him say a few words 
and then tell him butter off. 

1660
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:08,160
So yeah, huge fun. 
And so it was a a really good 

1661
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,440
working trip that was terrific. 
And then and then I went off to 

1662
01:27:11,440 --> 01:27:15,680
Sweden. 
I do part of a a Film Festival 

1663
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:20,160
out there called the Light till 
Dark Film Festival in Irbrew in 

1664
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:21,480
Sweden. 
Happens every year. 

1665
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:26,280
They started as sort of a horror
based, but they branched out to 

1666
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:27,640
a whole bunch of different 
genres now. 

1667
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:31,240
And in fact, just the other day 
on May the fourth, they showed 

1668
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:35,840
Spaceballs, which hadn't been 
shown for quite some time on 

1669
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,360
cinema there. 
So they they had a screening of 

1670
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:39,800
that. 
And it's it's terrific that they

1671
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,400
they do, they do some great 
work. 

1672
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:48,520
New film makers coming through 
who want to show their their 

1673
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:52,280
short films and, and maybe get 
bigger work because of it. 

1674
01:27:52,360 --> 01:27:55,640
And yeah, so, so that was that 
was huge fun. 

1675
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:57,560
So it's, it's all been a bit of 
a whirlwind. 

1676
01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:01,320
The first part of 26. 
Very good. 

1677
01:28:01,480 --> 01:28:03,600
Very. 
Isn't Spaceballs 2 meant to be? 

1678
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,400
Spaceballs 2 yes. 
Yeah, I've got some. 

1679
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:07,480
I don't think that's a good 
idea. 

1680
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:10,400
Got some reservations about that
because you you tick so many 

1681
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:12,400
boxes during the first film, you
know? 

1682
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:14,960
Well, do you reckon? 
Well. 

1683
01:28:16,440 --> 01:28:20,640
I re watched it recently after 
30 years or whatever. 40 years 

1684
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:22,280
maybe. 
Did it not land in the same 

1685
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:25,160
places? 
Let's move on. 

1686
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:29,240
It's it's been a joy mate. 
Thank you very much. 

1687
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,720
No, thank you John and check out
behind the stunts everybody, of 

1688
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:34,840
course. 
And thank you for listening. 

1689
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:38,760
And yeah, it's available as as 
John says on YouTube on the 

1690
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:43,280
iPlayer and well worth 45 
minutes of your time. 

1691
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:46,360
Oh yes, yes. 
So until next week, bye. 

1692
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,200
If you want it, here is come 
and. 

1693
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:51,200
Get it? 
Make your mind up fast if you 

1694
01:28:54,600 --> 01:29:02,680
want. 
Anytime I can give it much 

1695
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:04,880
better hurry 'cause it may not 
last. 

1696
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:10,840
Did I hear you say that there 
must be a catch? 

1697
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:15,360
Will you walk away from a 
family's money? 

1698
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:25,000
If you want it, here it is, come
and get it, But you better hurry

1699
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:34,480
'cause it's going fast. 
If you want it, hear it us, come

1700
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:41,200
and get it. 
Make your mind go fast. 

1701
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:47,000
If you want it anytime I can get
it, but you better hurry 'cause 

1702
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:48,160
it may not last.