1
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:11,240
Yes, this week we're in for a 
bit of a trip, but I'm sure that

2
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,960
they've got the title wrong. 
In my mind it was the last tram 

3
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,760
down Kingsway. 
I don't know Clapham. 

4
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,120
I hadn't been abroad in those 
days, but this is one of my 

5
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,960
favourites that the Spike and I 
wrote together and we had many 

6
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:29,640
of us laughing, especially about
the the trams. 

7
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,840
Trams are trams are comedy 
vehicles. 

8
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:33,480
Get off you. 
What? 

9
00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:33,960
What? 
What? 

10
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,160
And if somebody says you want a 
vehicle for a next show, I'd say

11
00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:42,880
tram straight away and that's 
why I was committed. 

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00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:47,000
Any more questions? 
Good. 

13
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,240
Hello and welcome to your weekly
visit from the Goon Pod. 

14
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,760
My name is Tyler Adams and this 
week we're talking about another

15
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:34,120
Goon show and I'm joined for the
first time by a guest Down 

16
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,480
under. 
It is Andy Bell. 

17
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,080
Good day. 
How you going? 

18
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,920
Andy very, very good to have you
on the show and this must be a 

19
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,800
great disappointment to any fans
of Eurasia listening. 

20
00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:48,880
You're not that Andy Bell. 
No, you're an Andy Bell An. 

21
00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,560
Andy Bell. 
I'm neither that Andy Bell or 

22
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,920
the ITN reporter. 
Oh, I think. 

23
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,200
Yeah, yeah, but I am an Andy 
Bell. 

24
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,960
I'm in Canberra, which Spike 
Milligan once described as 

25
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,360
Australia's Federal Capital, 
deep in the middle of somewhere.

26
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,800
Well, yeah. 
And, and I can attest to that, 

27
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,360
having lived there briefly in 
the early 90s, yeah, But you're 

28
00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,040
not. 
Yeah, but you're not. 

29
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,040
You're not an Australian born 
and bred, are you? 

30
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,600
No, I've spent about half my 
life here. 

31
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,400
Came here in bicentennial year 
88. 

32
00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,240
Before that I was I was a bit of
a bitzer. 

33
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:31,920
More than a bit of a bitzer, 
actually. 

34
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,040
Born in Lancashire, lived in the
North East of England, then 

35
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,400
London then South Wales. 
So I'm I have been. 

36
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,080
My one claim to fame really is 
I've been the Welsh language 

37
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,200
correspondent for the BBC in 
Australia for nearly 40 years. 

38
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,720
I do quite a lot of reporting 
for them from here. 

39
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:55,320
So that's my claim to fame. 
Yes, D da G Day from Australia. 

40
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,720
I'm trying to think now, is 
there a, is there a large 

41
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,360
gathering of Welsh speaking 
Australians in Australia? 

42
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:07,640
Well, of course NSW they can be 
new with came about because 

43
00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:14,920
Captain Cook from Whitby sailed 
down the coast of what wasn't 

44
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,240
anything at that point, but it 
became NSW and said looks a bit 

45
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,840
like Port Talbot and round there
and it and it does. 

46
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:27,040
And strangely, when I moved here
I went from working for the BBC 

47
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,920
in Swansea at Harry Seacom's 
hometown to Wollongong, which is

48
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:37,400
exactly that part of NSW. 
So it was like leaving Swansea 

49
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,840
and going somewhere else, except
it didn't rain as much. 

50
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,360
And As for elsewhere, there were
40 odd chapels, Welsh speaking 

51
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,840
chapels in Victoria in the 19th 
century because of the gold 

52
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,680
rush. 
And the one other thing that 

53
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,640
Wales was bequeathed Australia, 
weirdly, is the word Eisteddfod.

54
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,480
You'll hear Eisteddfod's done a 
lot here as as like competitive 

55
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:10,560
galas for kids and young adults.
So yeah, but there are no Welsh 

56
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,720
pubs by the way, in there are 
Irish pubs. 

57
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,760
I'm a member of an Irish club 
here, I'm a member of a Scottish

58
00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,200
club. 
But the only Welsh pub I have 

59
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,280
found in the Antipodes is in the
New Zealand capital of 

60
00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:24,640
Wellington. 
OK. 

61
00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,320
OK. 
So, so Andy, obviously you and I

62
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,640
have been in contact for quite a
while now and you wanted to come

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00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,160
on and talk about a particular 
Goon show which which is the 

64
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,480
last tram brackets from Clapham.
But I think it's easier just to 

65
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,280
call it the last tram, I think 
now. 

66
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,640
And Clapham actually does isn't 
involved in the radio program. 

67
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,120
With no no. 
It is in the Telegoons. 

68
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,320
There you go. 
I've got the T word in early. 

69
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:53,920
There. 
Oh yeah, the Telegoons. 

70
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,720
Well, I didn't. 
You know, I've done so much 

71
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,360
research. 
I didn't watch that Telegoons 

72
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,000
episode again for this. 
Fear not, I have looked at it in

73
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,680
the last six hours and it's 
interesting they did quite an 

74
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,040
interesting rewrite of some. 
Spike was very good at 

75
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,200
recycling. 
Well, it's well, that's another 

76
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,520
issue we're going to talk about.
We we, I think we both know it 

77
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,720
wasn't Spike. 
It was Eric Sykes who wrote 

78
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:20,320
this. 
Anyway. 

79
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,360
So what's your history with with
the Goon Show then? 

80
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,680
Well, it begins with the Tele 
goons. 

81
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,000
I'm so sorry everybody don't 
turn off because I know some 

82
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,560
people have some very strong 
feelings about the Tele goons, 

83
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:39,040
but I was about 4-5 years old 
when the telly games were on and

84
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,360
I they were just funny noises 
and funny looking things on the 

85
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:49,080
telly at that time when puppets 
were fairly straightforward. 

86
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,760
It was Twizzle and it was Sooty 
and Sweep, whom I was a huge fan

87
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,520
as well, Pinky and Perky, and I 
just liked it. 

88
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,800
And then. 
And then that was underpinned by

89
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,400
the fact that the Goons EP, the 
1956 EP You know, Ying Tong 

90
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:12,400
song, etcetera, my uncle had a 
copy of and used to play it to 

91
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,720
me on the Pi hi-fi at my 
grandparents home. 

92
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,720
So I got to the Goon Show as a 
radio program through the Tele 

93
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,880
Goons and through music which 
they were the sort of entry 

94
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,400
drugs into the Goon Show because
by the time I came along was 

95
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,960
listening to radio. 
Goon shows on radio in the 60s 

96
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:37,880
were as rare as hen's teeth and 
ironically had I been born in 

97
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:44,560
Australia they were on every 
week on the slide but so that's 

98
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,600
how I got there and as I got 
older 72, the last Goon Show of 

99
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,960
all there was a lot of carry on 
about that. 

100
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,720
The scripts came out. 
There was the obviously the 

101
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,720
Parkinson and from memory that 
was RE. 

102
00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:03,120
There were reruns through the 
60s only in clusters of a few of

103
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,760
the time. 
And I I think frankly as a 

104
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,960
someone in their early teens, in
the late 60s, the Goon Show 

105
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,080
didn't quite chime. 
It's as I got a bit older and 

106
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:23,560
got A to do well Entendre and 
they understood perhaps the the 

107
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,200
military humor which underpins 
so much of the Goon Show that I 

108
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,960
warm to it. 
But it I don't know about other 

109
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,120
people. 
It is a bit like a frog in cold 

110
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,320
water and the heat's turned up 
and you get to sort of more and 

111
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,680
more and more except you don't 
get boiled to death when you 

112
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,880
listen to the Goon show. 
In my case, it was It was 

113
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,280
learning more and more about it,
and even the great epiphany at 

114
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,320
some point where I went. 
You know what I don't mind Max 

115
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,280
Girl, Dre and Dre Ellington at 
all. 

116
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,520
Well, the the That's gonna be my
next question because I I always

117
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,920
ask, did you skip the music? 
No and and I'll tell you why. 

118
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,880
And I don't want to deconstruct 
too much. 

119
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,800
I think you'll find. 
Interestingly, in this episode 

120
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,400
they use the musical breaks as a
furtherance to the and I'm gonna

121
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,920
use a $10 word here the 
exposition because this is one 

122
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,240
of the joys of this episode. 
It is well constructed. 

123
00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,840
Even the stretching isn't 
stretching. 

124
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,720
It's actually part of the plot, 
the repetition of things, a 

125
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,480
running gag, etcetera, etcetera,
etcetera. 

126
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,760
And that's Eric Sykes. 
He's a Craftsman and and this 

127
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:44,159
sort of collision with him and 
Milligan, we'll never know. 

128
00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,080
I just feel there are bits of 
Milligan in it. 

129
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,680
But you just wonder whether they
emerged in rehearsal, you know, 

130
00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:52,120
on the Sunday morning, who 
knows? 

131
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,720
But the when I started thinking 
about talking to you about this 

132
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,120
show, I I went to the wonderful 
Genome Project online and in the

133
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,800
Radio Times. 
It's a Eric Sykes credit for the

134
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,920
script only. 
But then I found a copy of the 

135
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,280
script which had been sold and 
it had both the names of Sykes 

136
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,960
and Milligan on it. 
So the mystery will never be 

137
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,840
sold, but I just feel the Sykes,
Milligan relationship. 

138
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:24,400
I'm amazed no one's done ATV 
movie about it because copyright

139
00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:28,200
Tyler and Andy. 
Yeah, well, that's well ATV 

140
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,480
drama about associated London 
scripts, even. 

141
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,680
Actually, that could be a 
series, but you've got you've 

142
00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:35,480
got the great paperweight 
ashtray throwing incident 

143
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:41,480
between Eric and Spike and more,
and you've got good old Norma as

144
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,320
well. 
You said about the script. 

145
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,920
You saw the script online. 
Was that the script that was 

146
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,680
sold at bottoms for 192 lbs. 
Correct. 

147
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:56,160
And it's and it's got brackets, 
it's got Clapham in it as well. 

148
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,240
So as so much of the goons, 
what's on paper and what 

149
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:09,560
actually equates to real life. 
A reasonably accurate facsimile,

150
00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,520
but not always true. 
And that's. 

151
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,480
Good. 
Yeah, I wonder as well. 

152
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,920
I'm sure I've read it somewhere 
of years ago. 

153
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,040
I've read Eric's book and that, 
but I wondered how much 

154
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,760
involvement Eric had aside from 
actually writing the scripts. 

155
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,600
I mean, what I mean is, on the 
Sundays, I wonder if you'd nip 

156
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,840
down to the Camden and sort of 
run through it with them or be 

157
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,240
involved at all, or just watch 
them doing rehearsals. 

158
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,320
That's interesting because off 
the top of my head, even after 

159
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:48,320
reading the about Larry Stevens 
and other stuff, there's a mist 

160
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,560
around the whole process, isn't 
it? 

161
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,880
Yeah, yeah. 
Because there is, there's also a

162
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,760
little bit of a question mark 
over what it was that prompted 

163
00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,600
Eric to stop writing on the 
show. 

164
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,320
I noticed this. 
Sellers supposedly complained 

165
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,040
about the quality of some of the
scripts at one point and I think

166
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,840
that cheesed Eric off. 
Although Sellers then, I think 

167
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,280
it was the the last show that 
Eric worked on which was Tales 

168
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,680
of Montmartre. 
I think Sellers was on record as

169
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:20,080
saying that was one of the best 
shows ever or something like 

170
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,120
that. 
There was there's a little bit 

171
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,400
of again, there's so many 
questions left unanswered when 

172
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:26,360
you when you look at it or is 
this? 

173
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:31,280
Show structurally what's 
interesting is tried and true 

174
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,520
Characters have multiple 
appearances like a traditional 

175
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,080
kind of take it from Here's Gate
or Hancock's Half Hour. 

176
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,440
You know Minnie and Henry appear
three times and they're in 

177
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,080
somewhat at the pay off. 
That doesn't happen before. 

178
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,680
Moriarty and Grip type thin are 
separated. 

179
00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:56,520
I I That's and and and and. 
Moriarty and Bloodnock are a 

180
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,920
wonderful combination. 
Yeah, Moriarty, I'll pay 

181
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,360
pontoons. 
Only pontoon only we're playing 

182
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,960
chess. 
I thought the cards were a funny

183
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,960
shape. 
Isn't it nice though that we. 

184
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,520
Yes a bit. 
Oh yeah. 

185
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,520
Because there's all this all 
this information. 

186
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,000
I mean the work that's done by 
the the the preservation society

187
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:25,400
and and in book form is and you 
is extraordinary and yet we're 

188
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,440
still going oh what if what 
happened there who was that Why 

189
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,160
did they do that? 
But the notion of Eric there, 

190
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,560
I'm I'm assuming it's 54. 
It would be in the Camden, but I

191
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:41,080
actually went to a few 
recordings of Friday Night is 

192
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:46,920
Music Night is a nine year old. 
Don't ask, wonderfully warm 

193
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,200
house. 
It is odd, isn't it? 

194
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,920
Because Spike's even if his 
name's not on the script, which 

195
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,480
he did in Bollys Green. 
Today's announcement the the 

196
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,720
tension there would put Harry 
Seekins core diplomatic plates 

197
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,720
under quite a bit of pressure, 
actually. 

198
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:11,680
What version of the show did you
listen to? 

199
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,400
Because I listened to the the 
the fully restored original 

200
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,880
version as broadcast. 
Well I've I've, I've on the BBC 

201
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:24,680
sounds One, which is over 30, 
with the most magnificent segue 

202
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,040
out of the end credits into 
crazy rhythm. 

203
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:33,200
I think that is stunningly good 
With Gildry on the harmonica 

204
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,160
that could be a mouth organ and 
Ellington on the bongos. 

205
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,520
It's just antique cats on the 
piano. 

206
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,400
It's just in total fantastic. 
And before I forget it reminds 

207
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:51,240
me one other factor in this 
particular show, this is a great

208
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,240
audience. 
They're laughing rapidly. 

209
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,320
OK, it's got a we think it's got
a great structure. 

210
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,000
OK, it's funny and all the rest 
of it, but it's a very warm 

211
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,920
audience and the laughs are 
coming a bit like a traditional 

212
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,680
sitcom. 
This is only 54, isn't it? 

213
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,160
I had a listen back. 
There were a few early Series 2 

214
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:15,600
terrible. 
Recordings. 

215
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:21,680
On YouTube, and this is only two
years later and the difference 

216
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,680
is a. 
Oh yeah, absolutely. 

217
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,800
It's like night and day. 
No stargazers, thank God. 

218
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,480
No. 
Well, even even Series 4, the 

219
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,720
series before this in the same 
year, because this is N54. 

220
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,000
Earlier earlier this year in 54,
it was series four. 

221
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,440
There were shows that sounded 
the ones that exist still they 

222
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,920
just sound a bit flat. 
It's really I think from it's 

223
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,200
it's weird. 
It's like Series 5 just began. 

224
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,080
Like a dog out of a trap or 
whatever you want to, you want 

225
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,200
to describe it and never look 
back, you know? 

226
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,520
The alchemy, and it struck me as
I was thinking about the 

227
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,400
audience and they're laughing at
things that actually aren't 

228
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:13,080
funny on the page, but they're 
laughing at the language used of

229
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:19,800
sound, of audio, like a 
signposted joke about a 49 and 

230
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,840
six minute phone call after 
which is played a remarkable 

231
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,000
ringtone including the Harry 
Lyon theme from the Third man. 

232
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,000
And then Siekim says answer that
phone, that's not funny. 

233
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,080
It's funny though with what came
before it. 

234
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,120
So perhaps the audience, it's 
attracting people to the 

235
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,680
theatre, whereas in earlier 
times perhaps some of the 

236
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,800
audience were just getting their
tickets from the BBC ticket unit

237
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,640
in the same way that led me to 
Friday Night is music. 

238
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,160
Well, it's like it's like it's 
like the early first series of 

239
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,800
Monty Python's Flying Circus. 
Absolutely. 

240
00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,600
The audience was busted from 
Croydon or whatever, and you 

241
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,840
know, they had no idea what what
this show was. 

242
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,760
There was no sort of fan base 
that had built up. 

243
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:11,160
So, you know, I think by Series 
2, Series 3, the audiences were 

244
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,640
applying for tickets, you know, 
So there was an atmosphere 

245
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,120
probably. 
And I talked to, I just talked 

246
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,520
earlier about, you know, 
language. 

247
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,680
But there's a language to the 
Goon Show. 

248
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,480
And it's not just the language 
as written, it's the sound of it

249
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,520
and it's the lack of it's the 
illogical logic to it. 

250
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,760
And if you're used to, to take 
it, even though take It from 

251
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,560
here was splendidly written. 
But frankly, if you're used to 

252
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:43,680
life with the Lions or raise a 
laugh or variety bandbox, 

253
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:49,880
etcetera, Welsh, Rarebit, I'd 
love to know what that audience 

254
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,040
looked like. 
Were they sort of beat Nikki 

255
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,640
kind of types and I think 
probably overwhelmingly male. 

256
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,720
Were they people who'd served in
the war? 

257
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,280
Were they national servicemen? 
And it's Sunday night as well 

258
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,560
and I have boozed up all those. 
Well, yeah, yeah. 

259
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,440
Half the audience is probably 
mates of sellers, Sikkim and 

260
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,119
Milligan and family and a Dave 
Lodge. 

261
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,480
Dave Lodge was often in the 
audience. 

262
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,920
You can hear his laugh 
occasionally for just. 

263
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,960
There's some wonderful 
recognition laughter in there, 

264
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,480
which particularly at one point 
during a credits list for the 

265
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,480
faux documentary about the last 
tram, which is full of in jokes 

266
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,360
and one in particular which 
we'll get to. 

267
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,920
Yeah, we'll come on to that. 
OK. 

268
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,760
So it's a show that I remember 
listening. 

269
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,480
I remember listening to it for 
the first time and I didn't 

270
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,120
listen to these in order. 
I, you know, I was listening to 

271
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:46,880
these as they were repeated on 
Radio New Zealand in sort of, 

272
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,720
you know, there was no 
particular order to them. 

273
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:55,320
So one week I might listen to a 
series, Series 7 show, the next 

274
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,320
week a Series 8 show, then a 
Series 5 show. 

275
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,680
And I remember the I can 
remember distinctly the first 

276
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,360
time I heard this episode 
because it sounded different. 

277
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,720
It was, it was quite 
atmospheric, and it just, I 

278
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,160
remember thinking it sounded 
slightly different than other 

279
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,600
goon shows I'd heard. 
Particularly that, you know, 

280
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,360
there's the bit where after the 
the ceremony for the last tram, 

281
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:27,080
it goes quiet and then there's a
strange sort of metallic, wobbly

282
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,000
sort of harp. 
Ethereal. 

283
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,040
Ethereal. 
That's the word, and I believe 

284
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,120
that is based on the sort of 
music that plays. 

285
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:50,160
If there's a breakdown in BBC 
broadcasts, I remember hearing 

286
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,200
that and thinking that I've 
never heard that sort of thing 

287
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,280
happen in the game show before. 
That's weird, but but it is 

288
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,520
based on on real, on on real 
events. 

289
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,840
And I did take the liberty of 
doing a bit of research about 

290
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,280
the history of London's tram 
network. 

291
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,520
Loving it. 
A short history of London's 

292
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,880
trams The first tram began 
running in 1861 and the last 

293
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:26,920
tram was in 1952. 
A slightly longer short history 

294
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,280
of London's trams. 
There was a time when London had

295
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,560
the largest tram network in 
Europe. 

296
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,880
Ah, take that, Lisbon. 
In 1861, an American businessman

297
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,560
called, ironically, Mr. Train 
started running a series of 

298
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,440
horse drawn trams between 
Notting Hill Gate and Marble 

299
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,480
Arch, then Westminster Bridge to
Kennington Gate. 

300
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,520
They were not ultimately all 
that popular with the public, 

301
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,160
however, and Mr. Train decided 
that ungrateful London had tried

302
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,360
his patience. 
So he returned to the US and 

303
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,640
tried to become president. 
He didn't. 

304
00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:59,400
Maybe he should have stuck to 
trams. 

305
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,040
It wasn't until 1870 that the 
idea of running trams in London 

306
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,560
again was nodded through the 
relevant committees and 

307
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,640
gentlemen's clubs. 
And so the Metropolitan St. 

308
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,760
Tramways Company sprang up 
running horse drawn trams from 

309
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,280
Brixton to Kennington. 
They ran on rails, and though 

310
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,600
pulled by horses, the passengers
enjoyed greater comfort, a 

311
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,240
smoother, less bumpy journey 
than they would have withstood 

312
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,640
inside an omnibus. 
Some years later, cable tramways

313
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,920
began. 
In 1885 a steam powered tram was

314
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,560
tried out but was not a success.
Wherever it journeyed the air 

315
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,360
was rent with the sound of 
grinding and cranking which 

316
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:38,240
drove everyone balmy. 
By 1900 there were over 140 

317
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,920
miles of tramway in London and 
the year after the first 

318
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,040
electric tram ran between 
Shepherd's Bush, Hammersmith, 

319
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:47,640
Acton and Kew Bridge. 
Five years later electric trams 

320
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,760
had all but replaced horse drawn
ones. 

321
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,960
It was the end of the horse 
Drawn's tram. 

322
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,760
These electric trams ran by 
either a cable running above the

323
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,800
vehicle or via a conduit below. 
Also in 1906 and very 

324
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,680
significantly, the Kingsway Tram
tunnel opened, running beneath 

325
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,280
the road from Hoban to Oldwich. 
It linked north London to South 

326
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,720
London and special non flammable
trams were built to avoid fires.

327
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,400
In 1909, two armed men wanted by
the Old Bill for a robbery 

328
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,400
hijacked a tram in Tottenham and
forced the conductor to drive 

329
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,080
it, the actual driver having had
it away on his toes already, 

330
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,400
police commandeered another trim
and gave chase very slowly. 

331
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,200
It lasted 2 hours and covered 6 
miles, with the villains firing 

332
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,400
400 rounds of ammunition at 
their pursuers. 

333
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,360
There were quite a number of 
casualties for Fatal, including 

334
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:41,040
the two robbers themselves. 
This became known as the 

335
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,800
Tottenham outrage. 
By the outbreak of the First 

336
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,200
World War, tram usage had peaked
in London, with over a billion 

337
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,680
passengers a year across 3000 
trams. 

338
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,560
They were particularly popular 
with London's working classes 

339
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,000
due to the inexpensive cost of a
ticket and their regularity, 

340
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,560
ensuring ragged, trousered 
workers could make it to the 

341
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,640
factory in time to breathe in 
noxious fumes and occasionally 

342
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,520
lose a finger. 
By the 1930s, buses and trolley 

343
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,080
buses were gaining in popularity
and gradually trams began to 

344
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,600
drop services. 
By the end of the war, nobody 

345
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,440
was prepared to invest in trams 
anymore, so the writing was very

346
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,520
much on the wall. 
There were rumours that the 

347
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,480
influential MP Ernest Marples 
had worked behind the scenes to 

348
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,960
finally inflict the deathblow to
London's ailing tram network. 

349
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,160
Could it be a coincidence that 
his family manufactured tarmac 

350
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,560
for roads and Marples was keen 
to promote driving? 

351
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,760
On the 5th of April 1952, John 
Cliff drove the last tram from 

352
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,160
Woolwich to New Cross. 
The week leading up to this 

353
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,200
historic closing of a chapter in
London's transport history had 

354
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,720
been marked by several 
celebratory events. 

355
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,480
It'd be called last tram week as
driver Cliff applied the brakes 

356
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,800
for the final time. 
There was an official ceremony. 

357
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,000
The vehicle was mobbed by crowds
of well wishes, tram enthusiasts

358
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,440
and people with too much time on
their hands, and the whole 

359
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,680
occasion was tinged with sadness
and perhaps regret that it was 

360
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,280
the end of an era. 
And so that was actually the 

361
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,040
last tram. 
Well, since 2000 Croydon has 

362
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,840
been running trams again, but I 
think it's technically Surrey, 

363
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,000
so it doesn't really count. 
And now back to the show, 

364
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,320
Welcome back. 
So the first thing I'd say is 

365
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,920
that one factual error that I 
that I got wrong, or one one 

366
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,560
fact that I got wrong, at least 
in that little short history, 

367
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,880
was the actual date of the last 
tram. 

368
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,800
Which, but you're in good 
company. 

369
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,320
Well, yeah, well I because 
originally because I did, you 

370
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,680
know I did, I do a bit of 
research originally I saw that 

371
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:45,160
or I believe that it was July 
1952 that the last tram ran and 

372
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,440
then I listened to the show, the
Goon Show and it said I think 

373
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,240
5th of April 52. 
And so I googled 5th of April 52

374
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,320
and last tram and certain 
sources suggested it that, you 

375
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,880
know, the last tram did run in 
April 52. 

376
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,040
So I'm a bit confused, but from 
what you've said, to me it would

377
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,200
appear that no, it was 
definitely July, yeah. 

378
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,480
That's what I and I've seen some
newsreel and I actually had 

379
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,920
there was as you said, the tram 
week has got dates from the end 

380
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,040
of June into July. 
Yeah, it's weird how this 

381
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,360
because there is information on 
the Internet suggesting that 

382
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:26,280
April was the date, but more 
credible information that would 

383
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,040
say that we'll put it at July. 
So it's weird, isn't it? 

384
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,480
But anyway, so this show, what 
was it? 

385
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,560
Why is it this? 
Why this particular show? 

386
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,720
What was it that made you want 
to pick on this one? 

387
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,560
I think as someone who's worked 
in radio and TV both in the UK 

388
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:49,760
and Australia, I really enjoy. 
I'm gonna use another big word 

389
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:56,040
here, so slap me. 
The deconstruction of radio as 

390
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,480
it was at that time. 
It's not just in jokes, it's the

391
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,120
form. 
For example, the faux 

392
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,920
documentary, the back 
announcement. 

393
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,840
It's really well done. 
So I love that. 

394
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,280
I also love the fact that this 
is a show with a prologue, a 

395
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,040
first act. 
Thank L Troy a second act, and 

396
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,760
Ellington a third act. 
And you could argue an epilogue 

397
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,240
because you would think in a 
normal show, what does that 

398
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:32,880
mean? 
But in a regular show? 

399
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,200
Oh, here's Blue bottle. 
He's going to be deaded by the 

400
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,680
electricity wise being put 
together. 

401
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,880
But no, we were a couple of 
minutes away from the payoff and

402
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:50,200
the payoff is a proper payoff. 
And and in the last few pages of

403
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,920
the script, build and build and 
build as a good traditional 

404
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,720
comedy. 
Half Hour does and it almost, 

405
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,760
dare I say, has the momentum of 
a tram or a triangle. 

406
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,560
There's a nice thing. 
I love the musical performances.

407
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:12,000
I love the taking the You know 
what out of BBC announcer slash 

408
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,280
Richard Dimbleby voice. 
I also love the fact that 

409
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,680
characters are used in ways to 
move the plot along, not to make

410
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,600
their regular appearances. 
Because at times there are 

411
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,520
certain goon shows and you were 
talking earlier on about latest 

412
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,840
series where they come in the 
same order and you can almost 

413
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,160
mark it off your bingo card. 
And at times, and please don't 

414
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,880
at me people listening. 
There are times when it feels 

415
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,920
like it's it's a 20 minute show 
that's being stretched. 

416
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,000
Yeah, and this one doesn't feel 
stretched even though there's 

417
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,520
repetition in it. 
Series 5. 

418
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,440
Particularly with the advent of 
Eric getting involved with the 

419
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,760
script, there's probably the 
highest concentration of game 

420
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,800
shows with a beginning, middle 
and an end. 

421
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,440
Yeah. 
And I mean, aren't we lucky that

422
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,760
we can sort of talk about this 
Because the the the whole thing 

423
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,680
from beginning to end is joyous.
Even the last goon show of all 

424
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,240
it's joyous because we got a 
glimpse of what it looked like. 

425
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,760
It wasn't a radio program. 
It was ATV program, but that's 

426
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,560
by the bypass. 
But this doesn't let up. 

427
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,480
And there are lovely little 
moments plays within the play 

428
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:39,760
and there's some Minnie and 
Henry batonage, you know, went 

429
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,320
went all the way through. 
I've been some really good funny

430
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:51,120
lines, not just two blokes of 
the microphone pulling faces as 

431
00:27:51,120 --> 00:28:05,040
I imagined they would do. 
And as I stand here on the great

432
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,520
pavement, there goes the last 
tram. 

433
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,960
That was the last tram. 
Those taking part with the men 

434
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,120
of Westminster and the 
councillors and Eden Eagle led 

435
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:25,760
the Chelsea Pensioners also 
taking part with the last tram 

436
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,000
driver Nollis Lurker and 
conductress Madge Thund. 

437
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,120
Leader Paul Beard. 
Produced by Menace. 

438
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:34,920
Trained Bullshine. 
Script by William Shakespeare, 

439
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,200
edited by Jimmy Grafton. 
Additional dialogue by Geraldo. 

440
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,600
The hotel bill was by Gilbert 
Harding. 

441
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,200
You said earlier about at the 
beginning of the show when they 

442
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,440
have this, this last tram 
ceremony, and NETTIE is giving 

443
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,560
thanks to all those who took 
part. 

444
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:08,520
And this is an example of where,
you know, I was for the longest 

445
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,360
time. 
I grew up having heard the 

446
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:17,400
transcription services edit of 
this show and so Nettie 

447
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,520
obviously is. 
He mentions the tram driver, 

448
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:27,480
Norris Lurker, The Conductress 
Madge, thumbed and produced by 

449
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,880
Now I Love This Menace Strain, 
Bull Shine. 

450
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,360
Yeah. 
No. 

451
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,760
Points to guess no. 
Points for guessing who that 

452
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,480
could be. 
Script by William Shakespeare. 

453
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,520
Edited by Jimmy Grafton. 
So nice little name check there 

454
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,680
for Jimmy Grafton. 
And in the in the, you know, the

455
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,000
the version that I grew up 
listening to, Jimmy Grafton's 

456
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,280
name gets a big sort of whoop 
from the audience in a, you 

457
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,040
know, cheers and round of 
applause script. 

458
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,520
By William Shakespeare, edited 
by Jimmy Grafton. 

459
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:08,880
But listening to the restored 
version, in fact it's it's a 

460
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,560
line. 
It's a line that was actually 

461
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,680
cut out I believe cut out of the
actual broadcast version. 

462
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,640
So it's been put back in. 
It was recorded but removed for 

463
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,720
broadcast and Ted Kendall has 
managed to get this this cut 

464
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,720
line and and and put it back in.
So I don't know if you heard 

465
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,320
this on the version you listened
to or not. 

466
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,520
I did. 
I I I. 

467
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:33,720
I and and whoever's done the 
jigsaw puzzle, has been a 

468
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:40,000
supreme user of the, of the, of 
the cutting blade, digital or 

469
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,160
otherwise, because this, this 
reference. 

470
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,880
These are references which are 
of the moment and and if I may 

471
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:54,120
tangentially mention, when it 
appears the same thing is done 

472
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,120
in the television version, it is
refreshed. 

473
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,600
You have been watching. 
The last tram? 

474
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,400
Those taking part where the 
Mayor of Westminster, Robin Hall

475
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,040
and Jimmy McGregor. 
And of course, the last Tram 

476
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,200
Driver, Norris Lurker and 
Conductress match. 

477
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,600
Thun leader Paul Beard, produced
by Menace Strain Bullshine. 

478
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,680
Script by William Shakespeare. 
Additional dialogue by Ted 

479
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,160
Willis. 
Miss Thun's Dresses by Miss 

480
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,280
Thun. 
Wigs by Bold People. 

481
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,520
Yes. 
Well, that's all for me. 

482
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,960
So I see. 
Oh, I see. 

483
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:28,840
Yes. 
Thank you. 

484
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,760
We appear to have a little time 
in hand before the next program.

485
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,360
So here once again is the name 
of the last tram driver. 

486
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:46,600
It is Norris Lucca. 
Menace Strain, Bullshine is 

487
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,680
still there. 
Paul Beard is there, which is a 

488
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,880
huge in joke for the musicians 
because this was a well known 

489
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,000
BBC musician. 
But the the additional material 

490
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,440
is by Ted Willis, the man who 
created Dixon of Doc Green 

491
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,520
amongst other things. 
Yeah, and Sergeant. 

492
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,000
So they were going for the. 
They were going for for the kids

493
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:15,320
in the early 60s, but William 
Shakespeare remained and Robin 

494
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:20,280
Hall and Jimmy McGregor got a a 
goonzy as well for some bizarre 

495
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,360
reason they might they white 
Heather Club was no doubt very 

496
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,160
popular at that point, right 
Well. 

497
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,800
Because, yes, because in the 
actual Goon show that we're 

498
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,520
talking about seek him says the 
hotel bill was by Gilbert 

499
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:35,920
Harding. 
Yes. 

500
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,480
And that gets the, the reaction 
from the audience. 

501
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,800
And I wondered, I could say I 
was trying to find, you know 

502
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,480
what, what is that? 
I mean, I I was aware of Gilbert

503
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,160
Harding of course, but I 
wondered what that specifically 

504
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,600
referred to now. 
Did you have any thoughts on 

505
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,280
that? 
Well, he. 

506
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,400
Was a tremendous bon Vivier. 
I think he's the nice way of 

507
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,920
saying it. 
There's a wonderful radio four 

508
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,440
drama about Gilbert Harding. 
He was this as only in the 50s 

509
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,320
it happened. 
These amazing larger than life 

510
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,240
figures who dominated the coming
of television and maintained a 

511
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,120
presence on radio. 
He Harding was on What's my 

512
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,480
line? 
20 questions, obviously. 

513
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,920
Well, not obviously, if you 
don't know about him, but if you

514
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:27,800
find out about him, he was 
undone by a face to face 

515
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,040
interview, the same series that 
undid Tony Hancock. 

516
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,240
But what he was as well was a 
public intellectual. 

517
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,520
You had these intellectuals, but
he drank a bit. 

518
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:45,280
He was a closeted gay man. 
And so the Hotel bill, there's 

519
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,560
all kinds of connotations you've
placed on that. 

520
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,080
But he he lived a life, and he 
liked to drop. 

521
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,880
He did. 
And he Yeah, as well as, like 

522
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,440
you say he was, he was, he was 
closeted gay. 

523
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,400
And and he struggled to 
reconcile that with his 

524
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,600
Catholicism. 
Yeah, as well. 

525
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,840
And. 
Obviously you know you you 

526
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:08,000
couldn't be out back then if you
wanted to continue your career. 

527
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,880
Generally speaking, no. 
No, no, but I just. 

528
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:17,800
I think the the mention of his 
hotel bill specifically might be

529
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,880
might be. 
There's a couple of incidents 

530
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:27,040
that were kind of hushed up 
where look, for example, there 

531
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:33,760
was a there was a an incident in
Bristol when Gilbert Harding was

532
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,920
involved in a loud, noisy 
argument with a young man he 

533
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,920
picked up somewhere. 
And. 

534
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:46,840
One of his friends managed to go
and sort this out and dealt with

535
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,760
the management and dealt with 
the the youth in question and 

536
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,239
and I I guess money changed 
hands and it was kept out of the

537
00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,440
papers and and I I gather there 
was a few such occasions like 

538
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,360
that in hotels so it makes you 
wonder whether you know it was 

539
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,720
common knowledge amongst you. 
It chime. 

540
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:09,040
It chimes. 
Doesn't it? 

541
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,640
It really does. 
And in that context of that run,

542
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,200
the whole run, which has got a 
few more in jokes, like the 

543
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,720
reaction to men, Australian Bull
Shine is a lovely reaction that 

544
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:27,160
is intriguing. 
And from what I know of Gilbert 

545
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,400
Harting sounds absolutely 
without going into the research 

546
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,240
by itself, that sounds bang on 
and. 

547
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,480
I love this. 
There's little, there's this 

548
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,960
little touches in this show as 
well. 

549
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080
Little one off characters like 
Mr. Clench that Sellers plays. 

550
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:52,120
Yes, Mr. Clench. 
Did you so? 

551
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,960
Much as call me Sir. 
Yes. 

552
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,680
Take your tongue off my boots. 
Oh. 

553
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,040
Some fool just. 
Phoned up and said there's still

554
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,160
a tram at large in the Highgate 
Kingsway route. 

555
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:06,120
Oh, but that is impossible Sir. 
All trams have been melted down 

556
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,640
and made into melted down trams.
Everyone. 

557
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,840
All except the one you're living
in, Sir. 

558
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,520
Wait, wait. 
Look, the tram map on the wall. 

559
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,040
There's still one flag pin stuck
in it. 

560
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,000
Good heavens, I had never 
noticed it before. 

561
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,760
So what does it mean? 
It means that there is a tram 

562
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,160
still running. 
According to the flag, it is a 

563
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,520
#33. 
When did he leave the depot? 

564
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,680
1952. 
He's running late. 

565
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,520
He's running terribly late. 
Yes, and there's also. 

566
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,000
The the new the new office 
person at the end that brings in

567
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,800
the $20,000 that Blood Knox 
steals. 

568
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,320
That's again where it's a bit 
unusual. 

569
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,560
You're actually and and Harry 
doing quite a bit of his North 

570
00:36:53,560 --> 00:37:01,200
Country act as the Workman and 
and also yeah, it it it feels a 

571
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,280
fully formed comedy script 
rather than a goon show. 

572
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,080
And I don't mean that in a 
pejorative sense at all. 

573
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,760
It's got the Goon Show elements,
but it's, it's been honed, it's 

574
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,240
been crafted a bit more than 
sometimes because there were 

575
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,920
times, particularly towards the 
end, where the memory and the 

576
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,640
recollection were being indulged
by audience and performance 

577
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,480
alike. 
I think it's fair, fairly fair 

578
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,440
to say. 
Not to say they weren't great 

579
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,200
good shows, but sometimes it was
a bit of coasting and they knew 

580
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:43,440
that buying raspberries or just 
stretching a bit would get them 

581
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,920
there immediately after that 
run. 

582
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,840
Tyler I It's one of my favorite 
bits and it is Beyond the Blue 

583
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:55,720
Horizon played by the band under
Wally Stott Angela Morley in the

584
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,720
in the mode of a pit band of a 
variety theatre and the the 

585
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:06,760
pausing between each rendition. 
Oh yeah is is musical because it

586
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,440
adds to the humour. 
You could almost feel the 

587
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,640
audience going what the is going
on here and then they get the 

588
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,360
joke. 
It's the Rule of Three. 

589
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:16,880
Isn't it? 
It's the Rule of Three, exactly 

590
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:24,880
right. 
The 

591
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,520
And then the weed ethereal 
thing. 

592
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:26,280
And then dear Bill, who had 
amazing comic timing because at 

593
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,520
that point all announcers had to
know about music and many of 

594
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,840
them studied music and all the 
rest of it. 

595
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:36,200
When he goes, we appear to have 
a list, which was something you 

596
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,920
heard a lot of even into the 
60s. 

597
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,680
I think it's one of Greenslade's
greatest. 

598
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:45,040
And I will use the word 
performances, yeah. 

599
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,360
Yeah, in the in the Radio Times 
listing for the last tram, 

600
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,560
there's a truncated summary, 
which, like you suggested 

601
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,200
earlier, had sort of passing 
acquaintance with the actual. 

602
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,800
Plot. 
Well, even the names are a 

603
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,560
passing. 
Well, yeah, but. 

604
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,080
I managed to get the full the 
full little sort of precis and 

605
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,960
I'll just read that out now just
because it's quite interesting. 

606
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,120
It says so when? 
When driver Fred Krint and 

607
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,120
Clippy Hilary Boot drove the 
last tram for the ceremonial 

608
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,760
closing of the Kingsway subway, 
Ned Seagoon of the redundant 

609
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,640
Tramways Department thought that
all his troubles were over. 

610
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,280
But a mysterious phone call put 
him on the track of a tram car 

611
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,240
still at large somewhere in 
London. 

612
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,960
How did driver Henry Cron and 
Clippy Mini Bannister eventually

613
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,800
proved that they should have had
the honor of driving the last 

614
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,880
tram? 
And what happened when 

615
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,720
excavations were being made in a
new block of flats in Kingsway? 

616
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,480
And how did Major Blood Knocks 
suddenly become mayor of 

617
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,160
Westminster? 
So yeah, more or less that's the

618
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,120
the plot part of it. 
But then yeah, the driver is 

619
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,880
Fred Krint, whereas in the show 
itself it's was it Norris 

620
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:09,480
Lurker. 
NORRISLURKE Yeah it it is. 

621
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,560
That is fantastic. 
And this sounds like I have got 

622
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,040
nothing better to do. 
I ran the stopwatch on this 

623
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,600
show. 
It's over 7 minutes before you 

624
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,120
get to any characters other than
NETTIE. 

625
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,160
That is. 
Solid setting up the show, isn't

626
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,320
it? 
Yeah, I I love the. 

627
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,800
I'll use the word architecture. 
I love the architecture of this 

628
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,720
episode. 
It's it's really well done. 

629
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:37,200
Yeah, that's. 
Probably. 

630
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,560
You know, I said earlier about 
how it sounded different, 

631
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,120
particularly the beginning of 
the show. 

632
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,280
That's probably what it is as 
well. 

633
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,440
Probably the fact that there's 
there's no regular characters 

634
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,880
apart from Ned. 
They're all there, but they 

635
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:49,880
play. 
Their parts, you know, I mean, 

636
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,400
there's. 
Nobody in the first 7 minutes, I

637
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,440
mean, but no, that's right, 
that's right. 

638
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,640
And and and you've got this 
Dimbleby voice of of Sellers. 

639
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,680
You've got your mate Mr. Clinch,
you've got Mr. Throat, you've 

640
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,880
got Ellington, it's Gladys. 
Take it easy, you're mad. 

641
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,560
Fool your car. 
'S ready, Sir. 

642
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:17,360
Thank you, Gladys. 
Now come along, Drive. 

643
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,800
Along the old 33 rutan honey Man
right hold. 

644
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:28,040
Time Get up there. 
She's running well. 

645
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,640
Tonight, yeah, Consider we've 
got. 

646
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,680
A load of ashes on board. 
Get up there. 

647
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,800
Take it easy on my phone, you. 
Want to kill us both? 

648
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,800
No, only you. 
Good stop here. 

649
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,680
Gladys, we mentioned Spike 
there. 

650
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,360
You've got a little bit of 
information about Spike in Woy 

651
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,200
Woy. 
Is that right? 

652
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,040
Yes. 
Woy Woy his. 

653
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,640
His mum and dad, Leo and Flo, 
migrated to Australia in 51 and 

654
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,800
Desmond, his brother shortly 
thereafter. 

655
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,920
Now Woy. 
Woy, which Spike described as 

656
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,760
the largest above ground 
cemetery in the world is on, is 

657
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,920
an area of Australia called the 
Central Coast. 

658
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:16,000
It's in NSW, it's to the north 
of Sydney and he came back a 

659
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,560
lot. 
It appears he was somewhat 

660
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,120
strange, perhaps after they 
went, but of course in those 

661
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,960
days, bit like when I I first 
came in the late 80s, It was 

662
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,640
Aerogram territory. 
He didn't make phone calls 

663
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,120
because it was very expensive 
and he rode up, he he came back 

664
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,840
and he got to do shows for what 
was then the Australian 

665
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,800
Broadcasting Commission, which 
became the corporation in in 82.

666
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,320
Full disclosure, I worked at the
ABC for 20 years. 

667
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,320
And here's where. 
The story really starts is that 

668
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,920
bits of this episode were 
recycled into a thing called 

669
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:03,880
Idiot Weekly for an episode 
about the King's Bridge saga, 

670
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,760
which was a scandal in Melbourne
in the 60s. 

671
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:13,360
And the the the one good gag 
that survives into as as well as

672
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,240
plot into that episode is all 
the trams have been melted down 

673
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:21,000
and made into melting down trams
that, but that sounds. 

674
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,800
A Milligan line. 
To me, yeah. 

675
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:23,760
Does it sound that to? 
You. 

676
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:29,840
Yeah, yeah, it does, definitely.
The mystery thickens, yes. 

677
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:37,560
And also with Spike halfway 
through the show, he appears in 

678
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,320
his own voice or sort of a 
variation of his, a posh 

679
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,560
variation of his own voice, 
giving kind of exposition to the

680
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:49,440
audience and then saying you 
must watch these points a very 

681
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,240
nice. 
Running gag there, Yeah, but. 

682
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,000
But, but, but, but normally 
that, that that kind of running 

683
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,600
gag would be introduced more or 
less after Greenslade's opening 

684
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,200
announcement, You know what I 
mean? 

685
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,520
Yes. 
And they all do, an announcer 

686
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,280
style. 
Nettie presents the tram 

687
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,480
ceremony, Sellers does a 
Dimbleby voice, and Spike 

688
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,360
doesn't announce the voice. 
And Greenslade gets to be a bit 

689
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,920
cheeky with Blue Bottle. 
It's it's got, it's got a 

690
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,800
wonderful architecture, but 
there's a bit of anarchy going 

691
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:30,840
on within those walls. 
Yeah, that green slide, I mean 

692
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,880
we're going all over the place 
of this, but right at the end 

693
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:39,600
Greenslade sort of does a blue 
bottle act and you blue bottle. 

694
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,360
In the wings. 
Is incense and shouts, OK, he 

695
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,800
shouts, I'll get you at playtime
with Terry now. 

696
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:54,440
Now it's just a throwaway line. 
I'll be honest. 

697
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,680
I'll hold my hands up here. 
I spent about 20 minutes 

698
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,760
yesterday trying to find out 
what that could be a reference 

699
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,280
to and and at first I thought, 
is that is that a reference to 

700
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:08,680
Terry Scott perhaps and but I 
checked and and great Scott, 

701
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,800
it's Maynard didn't begin until 
the following year and I don't 

702
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,720
think Teddy Scott was 
particularly well known in 54 

703
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,840
and in the end I just, I think 
it's possibly maybe just a 

704
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,520
reference to Spike. 
In other words, you know 

705
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,880
Terry's. 
Terry's. 

706
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:28,280
I'm correct. 
I think you're right there, I 

707
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,640
tell my dad. 
And. 

708
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,080
Greenslade was from Wallasey or 
around. 

709
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:36,280
Yeah, I think so. 
Something. 

710
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,920
Like that, so a little. 
Bit of his North Country coming 

711
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:46,200
out tell my dad. 
I mean yeah I'm I'm, I'm just in

712
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,280
awe of Greenslade. 
I think there's an Edinburgh 

713
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,320
Festival show based on Wallace 
Greenslade. 

714
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:57,160
Yeah, well, it's such a weird 
there's such a a lack of, 

715
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,840
relatively speaking, a lack of 
information about Greenslade. 

716
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,560
And he died so prematurely, of 
course. 

717
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,200
And and of course there's 
there's rumors as to how the 

718
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,240
circumstances at which he died 
and all that sort of thing. 

719
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:13,480
Which I'll brush over now, but 
it's such a shame, isn't it, 

720
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,000
that he could have gone on and 
done bigger and better things 

721
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,120
potentially. 
But no he he more or less died 

722
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,320
with the. 
End of The Goon Show. 

723
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,640
And he was a big star. 
I mean, he was on telly, reading

724
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,200
the time when telly was getting 
big. 

725
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,200
There is a a haunting moment of 
him, I think, in that 

726
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,800
documentary from the late 50s. 
This is the BBC. 

727
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:42,000
And yeah, perhaps you know what 
I keep I said, oh, it was an 

728
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,200
edible festival show. 
Someone should make a drama 

729
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,960
about Sykes immediately. 
Perhaps we shouldn't know these 

730
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,120
things and just let it play out 
between our ears, because we 

731
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,320
clearly have those imaginings 
and they're quite lovely 

732
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,320
imaginings. 
Just staying on Bluebottle as 

733
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:04,280
well, he makes reference to Alan
Ladd in the in the Black Knight 

734
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,160
film, which is a shocking. 
Film, by all accounts. 

735
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,160
Yeah, Well, it. 
Was only it had only been out a 

736
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,680
month it would be. 
It was released in October 54 

737
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,960
and it was British shot in 
Britain with Alan Ladd as the 

738
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,560
title character of The Black 
Knight. 

739
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,960
And it's got people like Peter 
Cushing, Patrick Trout and 

740
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,040
Lawrence Naismith John Laurie. 
But the reason I mention it is 

741
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,920
that I I noticed this lovely 
little sort of recollection by 

742
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:39,840
Donald Sinden, who was then a 
contract star for the Rank 

743
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,560
Organization at Pinewood, and 
his permanent dressing room was 

744
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,320
in the same block as Alan 
Ladd's. 

745
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,800
And I just want to just want to 
read this thing that Donald 

746
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,360
Simdon said. 
He said Ladd bought in his 

747
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,280
entourage a double come stuntman
who bore an uncanny resemblance 

748
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
to him. 
The double did all the long 

749
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,880
shots, most of the medium shots 
and even appeared in two shots. 

750
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:09,400
When he was back to the camera. 
The star only did 11 days work 

751
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,240
in the entire film. 
He he was extremely short in 

752
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,720
stature and unless he was alone 
the camera could never show his 

753
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:19,320
feet because if he was 
stationary he was standing on a 

754
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,960
box. 
If walking the other actors were

755
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,120
in specially dug troughs or 
ditches, and for anything 

756
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,880
between, all the other actors 
were required to stand with 

757
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,640
their legs apart and their knees
bent. 

758
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,320
And putting their fingers in 
their ear and going tinga linga 

759
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,160
loo. 
Oh my Lord, because he was 

760
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,360
notoriously short, yet he was a 
hero. 

761
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:46,000
My brother is 10 years older 
than I am and he was a big hero.

762
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,720
My brother would have been in 
54, would have been 6-7. 

763
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:55,720
But this film sounds so bad it 
must be sorted out. 

764
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,480
I've seen. 
I've seen Shane and. 

765
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,440
Shane was all right. 
Shane was translated. 

766
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,920
Into Welsh and dubbed, was it? 
Fun fact. 

767
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:13,480
Just before S4C came in the 
Welsh channel HTV did 3 dubbed 

768
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:18,480
films and one was Shane and it 
was a scandalous thing because 

769
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,600
they got an actor to do. 
It's no longer with us called 

770
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:35,920
Robin Griffith who did it a bit.
Camp right Die Whiskey. 

771
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,280
Yeah. 
We're getting really meta now. 

772
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,560
My goodness, that's fine. 
That's fine. 

773
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:54,200
Yeah, I want to getting back to 
the last tram. 

774
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,120
Oh yes, that. 1 and great pipe 
thin. 

775
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,520
In series 5, sometimes he's 
collaborating with Moriarty, 

776
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:09,440
sometimes he's not, as in this 
episode, and there's a reference

777
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:14,440
to him being married because 
he's the the chairman of the The

778
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,640
Country and Town Planning 
Society and he's awarded the 

779
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,200
construction of a new block of 
flats to his wife's brother. 

780
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:24,560
Presumably been. 
Married. 

781
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,240
That's a bit of a shock. 
Wonder what Gilbert Harding 

782
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,560
might say? 
Yeah, exactly. 

783
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,720
I don't, I'm trying to think of 
any other references in the goon

784
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,240
show's history to him having a 
wife. 

785
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:40,840
I'm sure they probably are 
because neither Milligan nor I 

786
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,520
guess Eric in this case, you 
know, we're particularly 

787
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,840
bothered about continuity or you
know the characters back 

788
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,080
stories. 
But but also the fact, you know 

789
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,200
we've got the civic corruption 
because 10,010 is submitted and 

790
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,880
it goes to his wife's brother. 
It still resonates today doesn't

791
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,240
it Still goes on, still goes 
absolutely. 

792
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,080
And there's. 
Also an anger against government

793
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,320
in this you know he's a civil 
servant. 

794
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:05,520
Hit him. 
Bang, bang. 

795
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,440
Hit him, hit him, hit him. 
And he gets a laugh. 

796
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,720
And of course, we're in post 
war. 

797
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:16,880
The war's been over nine years. 
These flats are emerging from 

798
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,400
bomb sites and all the rest of 
it. 

799
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:23,160
That is a fantastic thing that 
totally passed me by. 

800
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,120
And it gets a good, you know, 
the dropsy gets a bit of a joke,

801
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,000
but it's all more, it's more a 
grip type. 

802
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,160
It's a joke. 
It's a situation comedy joke 

803
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:38,160
which is grip type Thin and 
Moriarty are not sitcom they're 

804
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,320
they're well, they. 
Are and they aren't. 

805
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:42,960
They're a. 
Bit ahead of their time and 

806
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,160
yeah, you'd expect it, yeah. 
You you could you you could 

807
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,400
totally expect this in a in a 
sitcom like you say television 

808
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:57,080
sitcom with, I don't know, 
Raymond Huntley and Richard 

809
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:02,880
Wattis and and Avril. 
Angus and yeah, Meg, Meg 

810
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,640
Jenkins. 
Dropsy. 

811
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:11,320
He mentions dropsy. 
I always thought dropsy was an 

812
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,000
old fashioned name for an 
illness or something. 

813
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,280
An old fashioned illness. 
It is I. 

814
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,800
It's also a bung I think, OK, as
we would call it in in the 

815
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,840
Antipodes, but they they bung it
but they're brown. 

816
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:25,080
Envelopes. 
Yeah, yeah. 

817
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,080
Yeah. 
There's a, there's. 

818
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,200
Another dig at because around 
this time they're having a lot 

819
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,440
of digs at Churchill, yes. 
The sellers doing the. 

820
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,560
Voice talking about the telegram
on a couple of shows. 

821
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:42,320
In fact last episode of Goonpub 
we talked about that but because

822
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,600
Grip Pipe, Grip pipe sends 
seeking to Blood Knot. 

823
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:53,560
Because Blood Knot Will Will Do,
cut price, Lord Mayor, and again

824
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,480
corrupt. 
Absolutely, he calls. 

825
00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:01,160
Lou Seller's Jewish character to
to to hire the ceremonial robes,

826
00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:04,280
but apparently Winston wants 
them also. 

827
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,200
So yeah, he's getting getting a 
lot of stick, isn't he? 

828
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,160
Yeah, again. 
Another sign this is more what 

829
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,440
you call a traditional show, but
within the Goon show world. 

830
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:22,880
And as I talk and think about it
and you, you talk with me, my 

831
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,120
admiration for this program only
actually grows because I'm. 

832
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,920
I was always a bit concerned 
coming on here about halfway 

833
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,800
through going, oh, it's not 
quite as good as you think it 

834
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,480
is, is it? 
I think this is. 

835
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,800
But now they they really, really
disappoint. 

836
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,280
They really can I tell you 
something as well, Just before 

837
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:47,640
because we got up to where blood
not gets involved and all the 

838
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:50,560
all the rest of it. 
Then there's a wonderful moment 

839
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:57,120
where Harry goes full Swansea 
where he says the clue refuse 

840
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,880
and he starts cracking up. 
Yeah, it's very it's very Ryan 

841
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:07,040
and Ronnie, it's very Ryan Davis
as ma'am in our house. 

842
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,240
I don't know if people remember 
that comedy show in the early 

843
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:13,120
70s, Ryan Davis and Ronnie 
Williams, which started in Welsh

844
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:18,320
and then went into English. 
Bill Cotton Junior hated it, but

845
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,720
it was a surprising racing 
Screener because they had this 

846
00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:26,360
skit of our house and Ryan Davis
was dragged up as a Welsh mom 

847
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,880
and she would say things like, 
if there's anything I hate, I'm 

848
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,600
fed up. 
That's what I wish. 

849
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,960
And she would say a refuse in 
that very Swansea Valley, which 

850
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,560
is, yeah, which was where I went
to university and where I worked

851
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,720
for a while as well. 
And I'm very much a Swansea City

852
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:50,080
man, still, So that that wore my
cockles. 

853
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,200
They were the more common wise. 
They were deliberately created 

854
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,800
as the more common wise of Welsh
language entertainment. 

855
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,760
Some people might scoff at that.
They got huge audiences, 

856
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,680
hundreds of thousands. 
Light int. 

857
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:11,240
In UK, in languages other than 
English is probably a PhD ready 

858
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:13,280
to be written because there's a 
lot of it. 

859
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,440
Well, we'll have to fit that in.
Like fit that in with the 

860
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,360
Edinburgh show on Wallace. 
Yeah, it's Mike and Eric. 

861
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,000
That's right. 
That's three. 

862
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,360
Projects I've got to get 
cracking on. 

863
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,240
Isn't it the the bit you 
mentioned? 

864
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:27,880
There seek him going all Welsh 
it it was. 

865
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,200
It's kind of like it's it's a 
fluff almost. 

866
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,000
He he fluffs but just carries on
going doesn't he? 

867
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,880
You can't build the. 
Flats on the Kingsway Subway 

868
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,800
can't build, but I've already 
had the dropsy from that. 

869
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,120
Why not? 
There's a 33 tram down there. 

870
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,520
Well, get it out. 
I want to. 

871
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:47,400
I've got to. 
But. 

872
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,160
But this crew refused to drive 
it until they are afforded 

873
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,960
another last tram ceremony. 
And he. 

874
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,280
Knows he's fluffy, but because 
it's got that EW. 

875
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,760
So that crew refuse. 
And it's not refuse. 

876
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,600
It's refuse, which there might 
not be much difference, but it 

877
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,800
it's very funny to me. 
And he finds it very funny. 

878
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,520
And incidentally, in the next 
week's episode, the booted 

879
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,760
gorilla begins with exotic music
and whales. 

880
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,720
Glorious whales. 
I do love whales, but you rarely

881
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,640
see them in the fish shop these 
days. 

882
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,400
He had a very interesting 
relationship with his native 

883
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,000
country, Harry Seekon. 
I think, without getting in too 

884
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,400
political about it, involved 
obviously with HTV played, sang 

885
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,840
a lot of Welsh songs and all the
rest of it, but I spent ten 

886
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,560
years in Swansea. 
I can't ever remember him 

887
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,800
visiting, but I had may have a 
faulty memory. 

888
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,600
His voice doesn't. 
Certainly in the Goon Show he 

889
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,680
doesn't sound Welsh and he 
doesn't sound his. 

890
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,760
I suppose when you hear him 
interviewed you can kind of hear

891
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,920
the Welsh, but it's it's almost 
like he kind of he softened it 

892
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,480
quite to the extent that he's 
kind of it's almost accentless 

893
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:09,760
and I wonder whether he. 
Wanted to avoid getting involved

894
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,760
in what was the Welsh rarebits. 
Those kind of very indeed to 

895
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,400
goodness look you kind of shows 
that were on the light program. 

896
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,880
He did play a teacher in a film 
called Sumstruck. 

897
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,120
Oh we've covered it. 
Which was film which was filmed 

898
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,520
in Australia at parks where the 
dish was also filmed and the 

899
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,520
dish. 
So it was, which is another 

900
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,520
dreadful film. 
But yeah, perhaps he had a 

901
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,360
complicated, perhaps it's a 
Facebook, it's complicated 

902
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,160
relationship with Wales. 
But I mean he's Ned of Wales, 

903
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,560
but a lot of the time he's 
talking about England, Ned isn't

904
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,440
he? 
So that's that's a good time now

905
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,480
we covered. 
Sundstrom What? 

906
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,000
Last year, I think. 
And what's his name? 

907
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,440
Harold Evans, the character. 
And he's from the valleys, isn't

908
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,560
he? 
And he goes to to this. 

909
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:07,080
This God forsaken part of 
Australia and ends up rubbing 

910
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:10,720
shoulders with Derek Nemo right 
at the end, as you do in. 

911
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:15,960
Outback Australia. 
It's got echoes of Hancock, who 

912
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,800
of course came out to Australia 
to do a series for the Seven 

913
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:24,280
Network as a 10 LB Pom kind of 
thing, a belligerent 10 LB pom 

914
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,360
and didn't live to see the end 
of the series. 

915
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,400
I worked with a couple of guys 
who worked on that show and one 

916
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,760
of them was a Gopher For 
Hancock, which basically meant 

917
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,480
making sure he either didn't 
drink too much or when he was 

918
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,280
getting demanding he was given 
exactly what he got. 

919
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,680
But what I got from a guy was 
his go from one of the studio 

920
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:55,280
people was it was a very 
interesting, difficult project, 

921
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,240
as you probably would expect. 
I mean, he was a man who was 

922
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:04,000
about to look into himself and 
unfortunately take his own life,

923
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,760
but who just got who? 
Who bought? 

924
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,200
Who bought Hancock back to the 
UK, do you know? 

925
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:20,200
I do not know, Willie Rushton 
did say. 

926
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:26,440
Well, yeah. 
Hancock died and I think Rushton

927
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,120
was either out there already 
already or on his way out there 

928
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,760
because of the cricket. 
I think yes, he's a big. 

929
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,440
Cricket fan and. 
He was. 

930
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,240
Or he agreed to accompany 
Hancock's remains back to the 

931
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,080
UK. 
Goodness. 

932
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,040
Anyway, that's a little bit of a
downer there. 

933
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,400
Who's your favorite character or
characters in The Goon Show? 

934
01:00:54,640 --> 01:01:02,560
I would say blood knock, OK? 
I grew up around men who had 

935
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:09,240
fought in World War 2 and with 
uncles and grandparents who had 

936
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:14,720
fought in World War 1, so Blood 
Knock chimed. 

937
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:21,760
I also like Cryptite, Thin and 
Moriarty. 

938
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:27,720
When they are really on song, I 
think they're they're pretty 

939
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:32,840
variable. 
But when they are really at the 

940
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,880
top of their game, yeah, because
there is, can I say the word, 

941
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,640
sexual tension on this podcast. 
There's a tension there between 

942
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,960
them, which is they, well, they 
they share the same dustbin. 

943
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,360
That's true. 
That's true. 

944
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:50,560
So. 
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 

945
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:54,440
Blue bottle, Blue bottle is and 
green sliders and. 

946
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,040
Green, No green. 
Sliders. 

947
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,720
No, he is a character, isn't he?
So I put Green Slade in there as

948
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,120
well. 
Well, OK, if we're talking. 

949
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:04,680
About sexual tension in The Goon
Show. 

950
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,240
Minnie and Henry. 
What's going on there? 

951
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:14,400
Well, she is having a smoke on 
the top floor of the tram, which

952
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:17,720
is a very good joke, but which 
would fly by most people today. 

953
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,120
In the olden days, Tyler, when 
we had double Decker buses which

954
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,240
you could smoke on and double 
Decker trams and trolley buses, 

955
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,000
it was on the top floor that you
would smoke and not on the 

956
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,160
ground floor of the of the 
vehicle. 

957
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,440
So and that immortalized. 
In A Day in the Life Paul 

958
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:40,080
McCartney Yeah, Yes, and and. 
But I'm having a smoke. 

959
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,680
Well, she was. 
Also, we don't quite know who's 

960
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,240
bed she was in either in this 
episode. 

961
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:50,040
Yeah, it's all. 
Happening, isn't it, at one 

962
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:52,920
point? 
Seagoon refers to Men and Henry 

963
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:54,560
as Michael Dennison and Dulcie 
Gray. 

964
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,560
Who were who I? 
Well, they were married couple 

965
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,800
at both actors and they were 
both 39 at that point. 

966
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,200
I checked. 
Really. 

967
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:11,760
Obviously, 'cause they for me 
were always sort of 65. 

968
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:17,360
And they were, you know, they 
were amazingly. 

969
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:20,440
I'm going to give you a Willy 
Rushton moment. 

970
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,760
Did you know that their last 
stage tour was with Eric Sykes? 

971
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:30,440
I didn't know. 1995. 
Two of a kind set in a 

972
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,640
retirement home. 
Which I'm sure. 

973
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,560
Played the hip. 
Hippodrome, stench, mouth or 

974
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:45,160
wherever to total indifference 
but but they were all but this 

975
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,960
was the thing in those days. 
People were old and they weren't

976
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,400
old at all but I guess wartime 
diet and all those kind of 

977
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,040
things. 
But that that is an that's a 

978
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,320
very funny line as well. 
What the thing? 

979
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,280
Is the audience. 
Clubs, The thing is. 

980
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:06,720
It it implies that because of 
course MIDI and Henry aged. 

981
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,120
It implies that Dennison and 
Grey are similarly aged. 

982
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,560
But I looked it up. 
Dulcie Grey's last role on 

983
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,640
television was an episode of 
Doctors, for God's Sake this 

984
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:21,320
century, You know, God Lover. 
And I know I only knew Michael 

985
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:26,240
Dennison from mainly from the 
Anthony Asquith, Yes. 

986
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:28,000
The importance of. 
Being Earnest. 

987
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,600
Yeah, beautiful. 
I think we now have tangential 

988
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:38,080
proof that Minnie and Henry were
at least in the sight of some 

989
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,080
gods, man and wife. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

990
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:43,760
I love. 
Clippy Bannister I love. 

991
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,680
That's a lovely little thing. 
Clippy Bannister. 

992
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:52,160
Minnie, take the beds down. 
My God, why not? 

993
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,680
I just got in. 
Well, stay in bed. 

994
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,680
Now you're there, just bring my 
bed down. 

995
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:01,040
Well, which? 
Which one is? 

996
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,480
Yours, Henry. 
The one I'm not in Min. 

997
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,120
Which one is that? 
The one I'm not in Min. 

998
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,840
But but you're you're not in 
either bed, Henry. 

999
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,320
Thank you, Michael Dennison. 
And Elsie Gray. 

1000
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:30,640
It just careens towards this 
conclusion of the Black Mariah 

1001
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:36,360
awaiting Seagoon outside the 
tram tunnel via Blue Bottle 

1002
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:41,600
deadening himself via Wallace 
Green Slade threatening Blue 

1003
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:46,760
Bottle's acts, which is a 
terrific bit of dramatic 

1004
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:51,680
tension, a return of Beyond the 
Blue Horizon. 

1005
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:59,120
It took the first time of 
passing and and the comedic 

1006
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:04,440
chops of those musicians in 
terms of what it sounds like and

1007
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,200
also what they contributed to 
the to the audience. 

1008
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:17,360
Amazing, amazing. 
And then I just like it's got 

1009
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:21,440
plot committee or no committee, 
I'm driving this tram out. 

1010
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,960
Jump on Greenslade. 
On second thoughts, jump on the 

1011
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,520
trap. 
It's plot and it's a joke. 

1012
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:28,880
Fab. 
Fab. 

1013
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:30,760
Yeah. 
And you? 

1014
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:35,400
Mentioned you watched the the 
Tele Goons version, so how do 

1015
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:36,920
they? 
As I say, I've kicking myself. 

1016
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,400
I didn't watch it again but I 
have watched it previously 

1017
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,520
first. 
But remind me, how does that? 

1018
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,600
How does that compare? 
It goes, it goes. 

1019
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:51,320
Straight in with the grip type 
thin character as doing the on 

1020
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,800
the whatever the date is in 
April which we may or may not be

1021
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:59,760
the last tram day we're going to
make a special program it 

1022
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:05,120
includes Hold on to your chair 
here Tyler Live action. 

1023
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,200
There's actual pictures of 
trams. 

1024
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:11,000
Wow. 
Wow. 

1025
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,480
Yeah. 
Now how much that cost, I don't 

1026
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,320
know. 
But there you go. 

1027
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:21,920
And then there is, I was 
referring to earlier the the way

1028
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,560
that this episode uses the 
language of radio, the telegens 

1029
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,920
intelligently uses the language 
of television. 

1030
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:34,960
Because instead of saying we 
seen time in hand is the phone 

1031
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,840
goes and Riptide takes the phone
and he's doing one of those yes,

1032
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:43,800
yes, yes conversations when 
things go wrong and they cut to 

1033
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:47,560
the chase. 
Those taking part we've already 

1034
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,600
heard about and and all the rest
of it. 

1035
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:54,240
But they add Miss Thund. 
That's match. 

1036
01:07:54,240 --> 01:08:01,200
The Clippy was dressed by Miss 
Thund and wigs and wigs by bald 

1037
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,080
people, which grips out there. 
There's a pause and he goes, 

1038
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:09,760
yes, and the phone call is 
brilliantly done. 

1039
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,880
The 49 and six beneath phone 
call and you see one of those 

1040
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:17,120
push button a, push button B, 
old fashioned phones and the 

1041
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,160
joke. 
Instead of whistles and the 

1042
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:25,359
Harry line theme and and the 
flatulent donkeys, it's and and 

1043
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:31,920
the Fuhrer is a hand putting 
money into the slot and there's 

1044
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:35,319
a a little placket, a little 
notice in the phone box which 

1045
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:40,560
says pull chain for information 
and and a real hand. 

1046
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,720
I take it. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1047
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:48,120
And then, right at the end, 
Neddy escapes, chased up a hill.

1048
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,399
There's like a an outline of a 
tram. 

1049
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:55,680
And you see Neddy riding on the 
back of a tram and a black 

1050
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,960
Mariah follows it up. 
And then they lose traction and 

1051
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:04,120
they go backwards. 
And at the end they say, well, 

1052
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,760
what happened? 
And we see a picture of a block 

1053
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,800
of flats and guess where Henry 
Crown and Eccles are. 

1054
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:17,000
They're in a lift on the outside
of a block of flats, which is an

1055
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,040
even neater way of completing 
the episode. 

1056
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:21,600
Yeah. 
With the bow. 

1057
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,760
With the bow? 
Well, there is credit there to 

1058
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:26,479
Maurice Wilcher, who presumed 
please. 

1059
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,000
Absolutely. 
Came up with that. 

1060
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:33,279
Yeah, and I. 
As I say, I I think it stands 

1061
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,760
alone. 
I mean that I have a, as I said 

1062
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,600
right at the beginning, a very 
warm feeling towards the Tele 

1063
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,240
goons. 
But I think this is done really 

1064
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,760
well. 
And it it it actually it re oh 

1065
01:09:46,319 --> 01:09:54,520
goodness, it reimagines it it it
it, yeah, yeah, it's the remake 

1066
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,880
and and very well. 
One thing I would like to 

1067
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:02,000
mention as well, it's coming 
back to this country, Australia,

1068
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,920
is that the goons were on ABC 
radio with the the, I think 105 

1069
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:12,320
episodes of transcriptions which
were on bizarre rotation, as in 

1070
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:17,320
New Zealand and other places. 
When I first came here they were

1071
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:21,960
on at 12:30 on a Saturday, which
is a really good slot for the 

1072
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:26,840
Goon show. 
And then in 2004, in January, 

1073
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,800
some idiot decided to take them 
off air. 

1074
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:36,520
They were on back on air. 
Within five months there was 

1075
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:42,360
uproar, absolute uproar, and 
they got placed then at 5:30 in 

1076
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,320
the morning, which I know to 
many people going, that's a 

1077
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:48,640
terrible slot. 
Australians get up early and 

1078
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,200
they still got a big audience. 
I used to work with the guy who 

1079
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:57,600
made the decision to take the 
goon shows off here and I was at

1080
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,360
lunch with him literally last 
week and I said, Gordon, wow, 

1081
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:06,360
how how important were the goon 
shows to Radio National on the 

1082
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,800
ABC? 
And he paused for a moment and 

1083
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:10,080
he just looked at me and went 
Andy. 

1084
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,920
They were very important and I 
felt perhaps it was a decision 

1085
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,560
that might still play upon his 
mind. 

1086
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,680
But they continued on on ABC 
radio for quite a few years 

1087
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,120
after that. 
The trouble was in that slot 

1088
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:26,480
rather than the weekly slot. 
They were in a British comedy 

1089
01:11:26,480 --> 01:11:30,440
slot and I'm afraid when the 
goons are in a bracket that 

1090
01:11:30,440 --> 01:11:33,880
includes my word, my music. 
I'm sorry I read that again. 

1091
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:40,160
And the Navy lark, the goons can
only hold that programming block

1092
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:42,760
together for as long as they 
can. 

1093
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,800
But they obviously Spike is 
still thought of here. 

1094
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,480
I mean, there's a wonderful ABC 
doco from the 70s. 

1095
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,440
Spike Milligan takes a young 
look at Australia which is 

1096
01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:58,640
rather interesting and the BBC 
made a doco in the 80s from Woy 

1097
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:05,400
Woy to Wagga Wagga and and then 
of course the and Spike Milligan

1098
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:11,440
newscast on ABC radio in 1971 
which got somebody disciplined 

1099
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:18,120
and and could only have happened
having worked for the 

1100
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:22,480
organization for 20 years. 
It was a fairly straight laced 

1101
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:25,320
organization when I started 
working for it in the 70s. 

1102
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,000
It was effectively a public 
service department. 

1103
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,040
But these are the things. 
When they go wrong, they go 

1104
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,160
wrong spectacularly. 
The news in brief The Prime 

1105
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:36,960
Minister. 
Mr. McMahon arrived back in 

1106
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,040
Australia today after his 
overseas tour. 

1107
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,920
He told newsmen at Sydney 
Airport that he could not have 

1108
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:45,120
had more valuable discussions 
with both President Nixon and 

1109
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:46,520
the British Prime Minister. 
Mr. Heath? 

1110
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,160
What about Spike Milligan? 
But he refused to give details 

1111
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,360
of the discussions before he had
spoken in the House. 

1112
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,440
What about Spike Milligan? 
Mr. McMahon also. 

1113
01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:56,400
Refused to comment when asked 
about criticism of him by two 

1114
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,160
former ministers. 
Mr. Gordon and Mr. Killen and 

1115
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:00,920
Spike Milligan, the Prime 
Minister, was met. 

1116
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,480
At the airport by his two 
children and members of the 

1117
01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:06,280
cabinet, including the 
Treasurer, Mr. Snowden and Spike

1118
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,800
Milligan Australia. 
'S National. 

1119
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,560
International airline Qantas has
been awarded a trophy by the 

1120
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,640
British Guild of Air Pilots and 
Navigators for its safety 

1121
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:17,880
record. 
Qantas is the second Australian 

1122
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,920
airline to win the Cumberbatch 
Trophy. 

1123
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:26,200
TAA won it in 1958. 
The state and post office is 

1124
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:31,520
doing good business in the 
United, in the United States. 

1125
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,240
I've heard him as well. 
When he spent time here he had a

1126
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:39,200
bit of an Aussie twang as well. 
He had a great deal of of 

1127
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:46,160
affection for this country and 
yeah, it quite what his role was

1128
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:49,720
in this program, I don't know, 
but as a as a a member of the 

1129
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:54,520
cast, I think it's one of his 
most consistent performances 

1130
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:58,280
actually he even does. 
He even does unusually for 

1131
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,880
Spike, really, in in the Goon 
Show, he does a Jewish character

1132
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,400
at one point. 
Yeah, I I. 

1133
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,080
Mean. 
These are different times and 

1134
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:13,160
those things are a bit awkward. 
Mind you, he Spike had his own 

1135
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:17,600
issues with Eric again in the 
late 60s with a with a program 

1136
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,320
and controversial brand called 
Curry and Chips where Spike 

1137
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:23,840
played a Pakistani of Irish 
heritage. 

1138
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:31,760
Yeah, but he was of his era, as 
are, as am I, as are you. 

1139
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,800
And it's wonderful that we're 
all brought together by this 

1140
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,120
extraordinary phenomenon. 
Absolutely. 

1141
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:42,440
Can I leave you with? 
With with just a notion that I I

1142
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:45,320
thought about the other day. 
You've almost got the perfect 

1143
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:47,920
mix of the three major 
characters. 

1144
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:51,840
You have sellers who became an 
international star. 

1145
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,600
So that gave longevity to the 
thing in one way. 

1146
01:14:55,040 --> 01:15:00,200
Milligan and eccentric that. 
Forgive me, but the British love

1147
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:01,840
and eccentric. 
Yeah. 

1148
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,480
And Sikkim who became a national
treasure. 

1149
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:07,120
Yeah. 
What a, what an amazing 

1150
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:08,320
combination. 
Yeah. 

1151
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:09,000
There. 
Yeah. 

1152
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,280
And of course, what about the 
early days with Ben Teen? 

1153
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:16,840
Do you think Ben Teen was was 
predestined to leave early or do

1154
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:19,920
you think you know would if if 
things had been different and 

1155
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:23,440
he'd stayed with the with the 
group, What would the dynamic 

1156
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:26,240
have been like do you think 
ultimately I mean? 

1157
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,880
Listening through that awful 
audio haze of the show that it 

1158
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:38,280
it to me, I can see a through 
line to later Michael Bentine 

1159
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:42,840
shows and Square World and Potty
Time and those kind of things. 

1160
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:51,400
It sort of doesn't fit. 
And three is Rule of Threes. 

1161
01:15:51,440 --> 01:15:54,320
Tyler Rule of Threes. 
And and. 

1162
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:59,440
And the other little bits, the 
1% and the 5%, jelled. 

1163
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:02,040
No Andrew Timothy but Wallace 
Greenslade. 

1164
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:06,520
No stargazers. 
Rae, Ellington and Gildrey and 

1165
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,160
you. 
And you wonder, though, at that 

1166
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,360
point with Menace strain Bull 
Shine as the producer of those 

1167
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,480
early shows, they needed 
producers who were a bit 

1168
01:16:17,480 --> 01:16:20,840
different as well. 
I mean, the road not taken for 

1169
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:24,400
the Goon Show is so many roads 
were there. 

1170
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,760
Thank the Lord they took them. 
And my goodness, didn't they 

1171
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:32,760
turn them into boulevards of 
fabulousness? 

1172
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:35,600
And of course, yeah. 
And you think about Stanley 

1173
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:39,040
Black was the conductor in the 
early days as well, yeah. 

1174
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:45,240
I mean, I I I think Angela 
Morley, Wally Stott and I've 

1175
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:53,120
I've heard her talking about 
about how she got the gag and of

1176
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:55,000
course with they were all 
musical. 

1177
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:57,120
Yeah. 
Spike and the. 

1178
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:01,200
Trumpet, The ABC doco, which is 
on YouTube, which is called Otis

1179
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:03,600
Special Spy. 
Milligan takes a young look at 

1180
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,120
Australia. 
You see Spike playing the piano 

1181
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,480
in that particular cue. 
Kind of style. 

1182
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:12,520
Seek him, obviously. 
But also, you know, Sellers, the

1183
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,560
great drummer and ukulele. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1184
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,440
Music. 
Played a very important part. 

1185
01:17:18,440 --> 01:17:20,840
And it wasn't just the musical 
interludes. 

1186
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:26,320
It without that knowledge of 
music and and tempo and pitch 

1187
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:30,960
and all the rest of it, it would
not have been the same it and 

1188
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,400
the the free form. 
Nature of jazz and that sort of 

1189
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:34,920
thing. 
Got it. 

1190
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,040
Bang on? 
Absolutely, yeah. 

1191
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:42,400
Yes. 
OK, well listen, the next time 

1192
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:46,240
you and I meet we'll we'll be 
rehearsing for Greenslade with 

1193
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:52,880
the Exclamation Mark the Musical
and have you got any anything to

1194
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,320
to plug or any anything. 
No, I don't have I I. 

1195
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:01,560
I am on Twitter at O. 
It's a It's a Welsh pun. 

1196
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:09,600
I am on Twitter at Orbech Oz. 
Orbech means from afar. 

1197
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,240
My name is BE Double L You see 
where I'm going there? 

1198
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:21,320
Orbech, Oz and I try and be nice
as you do, as much positive 

1199
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:25,480
stuff and clips and weirdness as
well. 

1200
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:31,040
So if you're a fan of Icelandic 
situation comedy, or who isn't, 

1201
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,960
who isn't, that's the place for 
you. 

1202
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,520
But I've got nothing to plug. 
Brilliant. 

1203
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:41,760
Good to. 
Hear with that Andy, I just want

1204
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,960
to thank you very much for your 
time and we will speak again. 

1205
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,000
Thank. 
You so much and keep doing the 

1206
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,040
great work and it's been a 
blast. 

1207
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:53,960
Tell me, Dad.