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I I know in one show there were 
there had to be a national 

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anthem for some Rotanian sort of
country in middle Europe, you 

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know, and I wrote, I composed 
this national anthem. 

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Then when Spike Hurt said no, 
that sounds much too good. 

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It's I just want to hear one 
instrument at a time. 

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So it sort of kind of started 
with piccolo and then it went to

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trombone and then it went to 
violin or something and. 

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And and he was absolutely right.
It sounded fantastic. 

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I'd like to think I composed it 
that way you see. 

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What a beautiful tune. 
Has anyone said it in music? 

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No one has had the courage. 
Hello and welcome to Goon Pod. 

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This week I am joined by 
somebody whose name has been 

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invoked a lot in recent 
episodes. 

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On the On Goon Pod, it is the 
gentleman who has been doing the

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Lord's work for the Goon Show 
Preservation Society in as much 

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as. 
He has completely revamped well,

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essentially made a brand new 
website for the GSPS and he is 

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Duncan Gray. 
Hello, Duncan. 

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Afternoon, Tyler. 
It's good to be Owen. 

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I think it must be about two 
years since we first discussed 

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doing this, but things have 
moved on since then. 

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How long was it? 
Is it 2 years since you started 

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working on the website? 
No, it's it's only a year ago I 

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I was just started working on 
the website. 

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I blame you for the whole thing 
by the way. 

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Why is? 
That we didn't show Preservation

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Society. 
As you know, last year was the 

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50th anniversary, and I had 
spent almost 50 years not being 

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a member. 
And then you come along with 

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your podcast encouraging people 
to join up. 

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And and I did, and I discovered 
it doesn't actually cost much. 

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So I did. 
And the first the magazine I got

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there was a story about the 
annual general meeting and a 

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long discussion about what to do
with the website. 

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And there was a request for a 
volunteer to take it on. 

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And I have a. 
Bit of experience is that at an 

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amateur level and I thought this
is going to be me, isn't it? 

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And about six months later I 
was, I had the job. 

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I didn't realize that. 
Or maybe you've told me I'd 

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forgotten. 
I didn't realize that you joined

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the Gsps off the strength of 
this podcast. 

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Yes. 
Had you ever been? 

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Had you ever been a member I'd 
never liked when you were 

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younger. 
I'd never been a member. 

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I was aware it was there, but 
the times I'd looked at it, I 

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didn't seem to be much in it. 
For someone living in Scotland, 

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who is? 
It Wasn't going to travel much. 

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So, oh, you're Scottish? 
I'm. 

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Scottish Yes. 
I thought you, I thought you 

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were Welsh with your heavy Welsh
accent. 

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Oh, right. 
OK. 

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Sorry, which part of Scotland? 
The UN, Duncan. 

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I'm at the moment I'm just just 
north, just outside Glasgow. 

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OK. 
Yeah, I mean the website, I 

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think it's fair to say most 
people agree that the what, what

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was there before you came along,
that the GSPS website was fairly

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tired, looking dated. 
It was. 

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It was very similar to a thing I
had done for another 

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organization that was just 
around the term of the 

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Millennium. 
And it's at goonshow.org. 

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I think that's it isn't. 
It yeah, That was the that was 

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the best name I could find that 
hadn't been bought up by 

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speculators and weren't going to
pay for buying a better address.

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So that's what we got. 
Okay. 

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So Duncan, in terms of your 
history with the Goons? 

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This is where most guests talk 
about how their father 

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introduced them and. 
So yeah, and nothing like that. 

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There was, I don't think in our 
home we heard any radio comedy 

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at all until I discovered, I'm 
sorry, I'll read that again. 

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Probably the very late 60s. 
It just radio comedy wasn't a 

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thing. 
Then in mid 70s I was at 

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university and a friend had made
a couple of comedy tapes. 

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And one of them was a couple of 
goon shows. 

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There were the EMI from what 
copies they copied off the EMI 

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disk which had been released 
quite recently with the red 

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forks and missing 10 Downing St.
With the annoying fake stereo. 

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Well, that went over my head 
because I was a poor student and

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I only had a mono tape player. 
But yes, that's. 

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That and so that's what he gave 
me. 

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And hello Robert, if you ever 
listen to this later, the tapes 

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started appearing for sale and 
the CDs and I started buying 

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them and they couldn't show 
compendium and the the script 

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books. 
And then eventually the Internet

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started and I will. 
There were some discussion 

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groups I got involved in so all 
went from there. 

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Okay. 
But aside from the actual Goon 

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show, were you particularly fond
of, you know, Spike on TV 

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Sellers, films, Highway, even? 
Not Highway. 

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Fine. 
No, certainly. 

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I mean, I'd enjoyed the Pink 
Panther films. 

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The one film that always struck 
me was Dr. Strangelove. 

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Not because it was sailors. 
In fact, the first time I I saw 

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it I probably didn't appreciate 
that it was sailors or that he 

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was playing all those parts and 
was just an age where I was 

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aware that this Cold War was 
going on in mid 60s I suppose. 

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And show story had a bit of an 
effect. 

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Funny with strange love, because
I saw it for the first time when

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I was about I'd have been about 
14 or 15. 

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So that's the late 80s, very 
late 80s and where I was growing

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up, where I was living at the 
time, other side of the world. 

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The Cold War barely caused a 
ripple on my radar. 

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You know, a 15 year old boy 
living in New Zealand in the 

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late 80s, I didn't really know 
anything about the Cold War. 

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Technically we were still, you 
know, the Soviet Union still 

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existed. 
And but, but I didn't know 

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anything about the Cuban Missile
Crisis or any of that at that 

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time. 
So when I watched Doctor 

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Strangelove, because I was keen 
on sellers, it fell a bit flat 

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for me on my first viewing 
because I didn't really 

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understand it. 
You know, it's only in 

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subsequent years as a as an 
adult and I actually went on to 

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develop a really significant 
interest in Cold War history. 

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So I I learned, read a lot and 
watched a lot of documentaries 

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and films and things like that. 
So, so watching it as an adult, 

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strange love. 
It's become one of my favorite 

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films, of course. 
But yeah, when I was when I was 

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a teenager, I just, I liked the 
German scientist with the funny 

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voice and the funny arm, but 
that was about it, you know? 

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Yes, and lines like you can't 
fight and hear this is the war 

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room, but. 
Yeah. 

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Well, yes. 
Yeah, even though I remember 

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being a very arrogant teenager 
thinking of that. 

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That line's a bit obvious, isn't
it? 

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I remember thinking that we knew
the how was I to try and 

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critique the comedy of Doctor 
Strangelove at that age? 

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Okay. 
So today you've come along to 

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talk about a particular Goon 
show. 

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Is it your Well, I know the 
reason at which will come on to 

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the reason why? 
This particular show? 

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Is it your favorite Goon show or
do you have a? 

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Another favorite good show? 
That's that's certainly not a 

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favorite. 
It's it's not a top 50 favorite,

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even. 
Really. 

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I don't think. 
I mean it's it's still a very 

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good show. 
No, I just, I thought it was an 

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interesting story behind it. 
We could no doubt get into this.

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It is one of my favorites of all
time, I'll hold my hand up and 

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say, and I think it gets some 
fairly overlooked. 

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And it's a very interesting show
for reasons that we will. 

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Come on to SO, do you want to 
set the scene in terms of the 

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reasons why you chose this 
particular show? 

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Well, what happened a good few 
years ago I, they thought 

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occurred to me. 
I wondered if there was a good 

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show made the week I was born, 
because I'm a bit older than 

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your average guest on here. 
So I went into the good Showing 

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Companion and Luke Send. 
We go Series 7, episode six. 

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That's the week. 
That's the sleeping Prince. 

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Except there's a new an asterisk
and a note saying that it wasn't

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broadcast that week because of 
the political situation at the 

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time. 
The story involves a revolution,

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and the Hungarian uprising was 
going on then, and so it canned 

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until a later date. 
And the pledge? 

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The Kingsledge story had 
repeated that instead. 

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I would have enjoyed if I'd 
heard it, but. 

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Yeah, so ever since I got The 
Goon Show Companion, I've been 

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aware of the fact that The 
Sleeping Prince wasn't broadcast

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when it was meant to be 
broadcast because of the 

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Hungarian Uprising. 
I'm sure there's people out 

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there listening to this who have
never heard of the Hungarian 

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Uprising. 
Do you want to? 

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Quickly sort of run through what
that involved, what all that was

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about. 
OK, so we're back into the Cold 

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War again. 
But back in in those days, the 

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really was a heavy repression by
the Russians and all the other 

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countries of the Warsaw Pact as 
it was those ones east of the 

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Iron Curtain and. 
There was, of course, resentment

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in those countries. 
Then The story probably really 

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starts in 1953, when Stalin died
and there was a bit of waiting 

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for the leadership and 
Khrushchev finally gained power.

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Then, early in 1956, he made a 
secret speech to the. 

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After convention and slagging 
off a lot of what Stalin had 

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done, but it's a secret that was
very quickly spread around the 

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world. 
It got leaked and the in Hungary

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and other countries that took 
the got the idea that okay, 

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maybe this repression is going 
to be a lot easier. 

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And they started pressing for 
reforms. 

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Unfortunately for them, 
Perestroika was still 33 years 

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away. 
But they were. 

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They were allowed down an 
election, and then the 

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government was came in with 
Hamster, Naggy in charge. 

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00:12:59,860 --> 00:13:06,270
She'd been a long standing. 
I believe it's pronounced Imre 

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00:13:06,270 --> 00:13:08,830
Nash. 
Nash, yeah. 

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00:13:09,270 --> 00:13:15,510
OK, sounds fair. 
So Nash probably believed they 

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had some power, but then there 
was more pressure for reforms, 

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00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:29,590
some demonstrations, some 
students. 

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Demonstrated outside the AVH, 
which was the Hungarian version 

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00:13:34,330 --> 00:13:39,410
of the Stasi. 
They got arrested, more students

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00:13:39,410 --> 00:13:45,050
protested, they got shot and the
whole thing descended into a 

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00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:48,250
civil war which got rather 
bloody. 

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00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:57,050
Yeah, and then the day that the 
goons assembled in the Camden 

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00:13:57,050 --> 00:14:00,290
Theater to record. 
The Sleeping Prince. 

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00:14:00,290 --> 00:14:01,970
Well, that wasn't called the 
Sleeping Prince, but we'll come 

193
00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:04,170
to that. 
But the day that they, the day 

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00:14:04,170 --> 00:14:08,050
that they were due to record, 
was the day, I believe, that the

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00:14:08,050 --> 00:14:09,690
Soviet tanks rolled into Hungary
for. 

196
00:14:10,410 --> 00:14:12,770
Many days the fighting 
continues, with now the 

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00:14:12,770 --> 00:14:15,290
government, now the insurgents 
gaining the upper hand. 

198
00:14:16,050 --> 00:14:18,010
Running battles move from street
to street. 

199
00:14:18,650 --> 00:14:21,290
But as the toll of dead and 
wounded grows heavier, it 

200
00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:23,090
becomes clear that the rebels 
must win. 

201
00:14:23,610 --> 00:14:25,530
But they have the great mass of 
people behind them. 

202
00:14:26,370 --> 00:14:28,770
Desperately, every Nazi's 
government seeks a way out. 

203
00:14:28,770 --> 00:14:31,850
A few days ago it had asked the 
Russians to help. 

204
00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:35,850
Now it begs them to leave. 
But some of the Soviet tanks 

205
00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:38,450
will never leave when they have 
been captured or destroyed by 

206
00:14:38,450 --> 00:14:40,130
the insurgents they were ordered
to. 

207
00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:46,410
Yes, Naz had made a declaration 
that Hungary was now independent

208
00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:48,730
and he was calling in the West 
for support. 

209
00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:54,690
And that was the last straw and 
which was, as you say, the same 

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00:14:54,690 --> 00:15:00,600
day as. 
The Guns had the recording of 

211
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,560
the the show, the 6th episode of
series seven. 

212
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,280
It was a sort of much the same, 
if you think back to Foiled by 

213
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:15,440
President Fred, which I know you
discussed previously. 

214
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,320
Yeah, and by the way, I'd 
forgotten the similarities in 

215
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,260
theme. 
Yeah, teams between that and I'd

216
00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:27,300
also forgotten that the because 
I think I said in that episode 

217
00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:31,140
when I did, foiled by president 
Fred that the general Aston 

218
00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:35,660
Villa voice that Sellers did was
a one off or something along 

219
00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:38,300
those lines. 
Yeah, when of course it turns up

220
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:40,780
in this show. 
Just to confuse my ass, yes. 

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00:15:41,780 --> 00:15:46,860
Yeah. 
Yeah, same as Fred President 

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00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:49,500
Fred. 
Neddy is is getting sent to 

223
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:55,020
South America where there's a 
revolution going on, except that

224
00:15:56,500 --> 00:16:01,900
there must have been something 
in the air that warned that this

225
00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:05,540
wasn't really going to work. 
Such a even story about a 

226
00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:10,740
revolution that week, and I've 
had a look at the original 

227
00:16:10,740 --> 00:16:16,430
script and. 
What a lot of changes made, I'm 

228
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:20,030
guessing on the day. 
Well, for start, one of the 

229
00:16:20,190 --> 00:16:25,150
fundamental changes was that the
story, the script, the show was 

230
00:16:25,150 --> 00:16:28,430
originally to be called the 
President's Protocol. 

231
00:16:29,190 --> 00:16:32,430
Yeah. 
Which is which is which is a 

232
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:38,190
very almost like a sort of Eric 
Ambler or Alistair MacLean kind 

233
00:16:38,190 --> 00:16:41,390
of novel title. 
Yes, that's that's what I 

234
00:16:41,390 --> 00:16:43,510
thought as well that's that's 
not really a. 

235
00:16:44,450 --> 00:16:48,290
A good show title, but that's 
that's what it was. 

236
00:16:48,290 --> 00:16:54,290
And then I'm looking at the 
front page of the script and 

237
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:57,530
it's Larry Stevens copy, which 
you've probably got there as 

238
00:16:57,530 --> 00:17:02,050
well. 
There's been replaced with The 

239
00:17:02,050 --> 00:17:05,690
Sleeping Prince and The Sleeping
Prince. 

240
00:17:06,210 --> 00:17:09,490
Really, there's no, there's no 
relation with the story 

241
00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:12,609
whatsoever. 
It just seems to get sledged, 

242
00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:14,530
hammered. 
In there is the title Every 

243
00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:18,089
time. 
I wonder if just oh, I've got a 

244
00:17:18,089 --> 00:17:21,290
recording of some snoring here, 
Let's all cable. 

245
00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:29,370
Just here's the thing. 
It hadn't until I was listening.

246
00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:32,050
Until you and I agreed to cover 
this show. 

247
00:17:32,730 --> 00:17:36,170
And I listened to the show 
obviously again, and I hadn't 

248
00:17:36,170 --> 00:17:37,450
listened to it for quite some 
time. 

249
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,080
And then I was doing a research 
and and and it hadn't occurred 

250
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:50,040
to me until now that the 
Sleeping Prince element bears 

251
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,240
absolutely no relation to the 
story. 

252
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,800
Okay. 
I mean, I kind of subconsciously

253
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,360
knew that, But why didn't the 
question I I wrote on my notes 

254
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,480
in capital letters. 
Why didn't the Sleeping Prince 

255
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,400
element bother me when I first 
heard the show? 

256
00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:10,940
If you don't want to be, why 
couldn't I question what the 

257
00:18:10,940 --> 00:18:15,100
hell has that got to do with 
this Revolution storyline? 

258
00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:18,140
And yeah, I just wonder why they
went with The Sleep, the 

259
00:18:18,180 --> 00:18:20,580
Sleeping Prince. 
The only thing is there's a 

260
00:18:21,540 --> 00:18:24,500
there's a play by Terence 
Ratigan called The Sleeping 

261
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:25,940
Prince. 
Do you know about this? 

262
00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:33,620
It was written in 1953 and it 
was it was written to coincide 

263
00:18:33,620 --> 00:18:36,340
with the Queen's coronation. 
Okay. 

264
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:42,070
And I haven't read the play or 
read up on the play, but I 

265
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:45,990
believe that it was bought by 
Marilyn Monroe's production 

266
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:50,710
company and then adapted as the 
film as the Prince and the 

267
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:57,670
showgirl Okay and Larry. 
Olivia had had starred in the in

268
00:18:57,670 --> 00:19:02,590
the original play and as the as 
The Prince, I presume, and then 

269
00:19:02,590 --> 00:19:06,780
he also appeared alongside. 
Monroe in The Prince and the 

270
00:19:06,780 --> 00:19:11,780
showgirl, of course. 
Now I I don't know from from 

271
00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:14,540
what I could from the little bit
I read about the play. 

272
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:20,620
I can't see any references to 
South American revolutions or 

273
00:19:20,620 --> 00:19:24,300
anything like that. 
So I don't know why or if there 

274
00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:28,740
was any connection in Larry or 
or Spike's mind when they came 

275
00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:32,780
to change the title of the show 
and and all they did is they 

276
00:19:32,780 --> 00:19:35,540
just added. 
I think you pointed out to me, 

277
00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:39,500
they they added in, they they 
crossed out bits in the script 

278
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:44,500
and in Biro wrote little bits 
for Wallace to announce at 

279
00:19:44,540 --> 00:19:49,220
various junctures throughout the
show when you would hear this 

280
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:52,980
snoring. 
But yeah, it had nothing to do 

281
00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:56,620
with the actual plot. 
And as I always do, I want to 

282
00:19:56,620 --> 00:20:00,580
give a bit of a context as to 
what else was happening. 

283
00:20:00,580 --> 00:20:03,500
Of course the the major story in
the news. 

284
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,400
On the 4th of November, was the 
Hungarian or They did the well 

285
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,520
the Hungarian uprising and the 
Soviet tanks entering Hungary. 

286
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,840
The day after the show was 
recorded, the last episode of 

287
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,720
Son of Fred was broadcast. 
Yep, that's right. 

288
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,680
I had spotted that as well. 
Yeah, yeah. 

289
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,880
And. 
Not that it was a broadcast in 

290
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,960
this area, but parts of England 
got it so. 

291
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,000
Well, I think it was it was the 
London area made it was it was 

292
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:36,560
associated rediffusion, wasn't 
it? 

293
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,200
Or was it was it? 
I think that worked well. 

294
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,200
I don't know how much of A 
network and I was at the time. 

295
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,880
I believe there were other parts
of England got it, but it was 

296
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,200
before the network was properly 
developed, so. 

297
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,000
Right Okay. 
Also on that day, on the Monday 

298
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:59,240
the 5th, Harry appeared at the 
Rural Command performance. 

299
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:05,590
But the Queen pulled out of 
attending because of the 

300
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:10,470
international situation. 
And on that day, on the Monday, 

301
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:13,670
an episode of Desert Island 
Discs featuring Spike was due to

302
00:21:13,670 --> 00:21:16,350
be broadcast. 
But it was it was pulled owing 

303
00:21:16,350 --> 00:21:20,230
to extended news coverage of the
Hungarian crisis. 

304
00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:25,670
And so that episode of Desert 
Island Discs was broadcast on 

305
00:21:25,670 --> 00:21:30,030
the 10th of December and also 
during that week. 

306
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,760
Spike did appear on the Light 
program on Question Time. 

307
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,280
Yeah, I've seen that. 
I think that was actually later 

308
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,840
than that week. 
I think that was. 

309
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,440
I think that was the week of 
Sleeping Prince eventually was 

310
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,880
broadcast. 
Oh, right. 

311
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,320
Oh well, very good for picking 
up on that. 

312
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,000
I for some reason I had it down 
as the week it was recorded. 

313
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,000
Question Time for those overseas
listeners may not know it. 

314
00:22:00,490 --> 00:22:06,330
Is a sort of major political TV 
show now where a studio, a 

315
00:22:06,330 --> 00:22:12,210
studio audience gets to ask 
politicians of the day questions

316
00:22:12,210 --> 00:22:16,050
which they will happily ignore. 
Yeah, yeah. 

317
00:22:16,530 --> 00:22:18,570
They very rarely go off message,
do they? 

318
00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:23,930
Yeah, but in those days, 
Question Time was a day. 

319
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:28,370
So if you had a panel of experts
on a topic and. 

320
00:22:29,870 --> 00:22:33,790
Some of the public with 
questions and on this occasion 

321
00:22:33,790 --> 00:22:40,510
the topic was humor and the 
audience came from a Middlesex 

322
00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:45,550
youth club and the experts were 
Spike with Joyce Grenfell, who I

323
00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:50,830
think you've discussed on the 
show before, and Gerald Hoffman,

324
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:54,630
who probably you haven't. 
No, I haven't. 

325
00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:59,110
I think I've had a few people. 
Talk quite admiringly about half

326
00:22:59,110 --> 00:23:00,990
done, but we've never discussed 
them in any detail. 

327
00:23:01,110 --> 00:23:04,390
Yeah, it was. 
There's another It was 

328
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:09,950
unfortunate. 
He he died very suddenly in his 

329
00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:14,950
early 30s, I think just 59 or 
so. 

330
00:23:15,790 --> 00:23:20,030
He really was a tremendous 
performer. 

331
00:23:20,030 --> 00:23:24,710
He was a cartoonist, musician. 
Classical music was his big 

332
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:27,500
thing. 
Not long after he was dead in 

333
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:33,500
the mid 60s, Allison Bachelor 
along with the BBC made a series

334
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:38,740
of cartoons in his style which 
were called Tales from Hoffman 

335
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:44,940
and and who was The Who did? 
Who was the voice talent? 

336
00:23:44,940 --> 00:23:48,740
And some of them no Peter 
Sellers. 

337
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:50,420
Peter. 
Sellers. 

338
00:23:50,420 --> 00:23:51,340
No. 
Yeah. 

339
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:57,670
The the best known one is is the
first one, which is doesn't 

340
00:23:57,670 --> 00:23:59,510
doesn't have any voice over at 
all. 

341
00:23:59,510 --> 00:24:06,510
It's a conductor and a concerts.
But the second one was Peter 

342
00:24:06,510 --> 00:24:12,590
Sellers was doing a sort of 
depressed man trying to tell his

343
00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:15,950
young son the facts of life. 
But. 

344
00:24:16,350 --> 00:24:20,190
Some of them on YouTube and it's
looking out for. 

345
00:24:21,290 --> 00:24:25,730
Here goes. 
Come along, my boy. 

346
00:24:28,290 --> 00:24:44,330
Yes, I think the time has come. 
I would like to have a talk with

347
00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:48,570
you. 
You see, there are certain 

348
00:24:48,850 --> 00:24:50,970
facts. 
Let us face it. 

349
00:24:52,850 --> 00:25:00,730
Now look at me. 
I am your father, am I not? 

350
00:25:01,850 --> 00:25:04,410
My bye, My bye, my dear, dear 
boy. 

351
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:08,130
We must look at life in a 
sensible way. 

352
00:25:08,810 --> 00:25:13,450
No nonsense, no mystery, no 
enigma. 

353
00:25:17,170 --> 00:25:22,330
What was I going to say? 
What What became The Sleeping 

354
00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:27,450
Prince was recorded on the 4th 
of November 56, but it was not 

355
00:25:27,730 --> 00:25:32,010
actually broadcast until the 
14th of February 1957. 

356
00:25:33,410 --> 00:25:35,570
And this is where things get a 
bit confusing as well. 

357
00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:39,010
So obviously the the 
international situation had come

358
00:25:39,050 --> 00:25:43,850
sufficiently that they felt it 
was permissible to stick out 

359
00:25:43,850 --> 00:25:45,900
the. 
Sleeping Prince broad to 

360
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:50,460
broadcast it in in February 57. 
It comes out after the week 

361
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:54,620
after the mysterious Punch Up 
the conquer and the week before 

362
00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:59,220
around the world in 80 days And 
it caused a little bit of do you

363
00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:01,140
know about this Duncan? 
It caused a little bit of 

364
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,300
confusion with the show 
numbering. 

365
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:08,220
I mean this doesn't really 
matter to anybody else but it's 

366
00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:12,740
it's kind of interesting to Adal
Goon show fans like me it it it.

367
00:26:13,210 --> 00:26:17,250
In total, paperwork designates 
the show The Sleeping Prince 

368
00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:23,530
Show as the 20th episode of 
series 7 because because of 

369
00:26:23,530 --> 00:26:28,770
that, Spike and Larry designated
the show that was to follow the 

370
00:26:28,770 --> 00:26:33,170
Sleeping Prince around the world
in 80 days as the 21st episode 

371
00:26:33,170 --> 00:26:38,290
of series 7. 
But the problem is that the show

372
00:26:38,290 --> 00:26:41,810
is considered to be both the 
20th episode of series 7. 

373
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,920
And the 6th episode of series 7,
which means that there isn't, 

374
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,800
technically speaking, there 
really isn't a 20th episode. 

375
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,840
Yeah, 7. 
And they all got the week off. 

376
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,600
Yeah, it's all very confusing 
and if people want to find out 

377
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,600
more about that then please send
me a stamped address envelope 

378
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,720
and I will send you a very 
lengthy and very boring 

379
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,120
explanation. 
OK, so. 

380
00:27:12,350 --> 00:27:17,230
The episode itself, I know you 
pointed out about the script. 

381
00:27:17,230 --> 00:27:20,550
It's you suspect that Larry was 
a little bit cheesed off. 

382
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:25,790
Yeah, the rewrites. 
He's he's scored his name out 

383
00:27:25,790 --> 00:27:31,750
and there's been another put in 
the front cover to Pat Dixon's 

384
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:37,070
name, so it's supposedly read 
Spike Milligan and Pat Dixon. 

385
00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:39,430
Pat Dixon was the producer at 
the time. 

386
00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:44,940
And it's as if Pat Dixon was 
probably working on orders to 

387
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:49,540
make some changes to try and get
the show through that week. 

388
00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:57,300
If you asked me, I would have 
said OK, if one of the two 

389
00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:00,420
writers was going to be 
temperamental and awkward about 

390
00:28:00,420 --> 00:28:03,180
this, it would have been Spike. 
And perhaps he was. 

391
00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:04,420
We don't know. 
But it's just that we've got 

392
00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:06,580
Larry's script to go on, haven't
we? 

393
00:28:06,580 --> 00:28:12,170
Yeah, and it's. 
Pat Dixon, somebody I'd like to 

394
00:28:12,170 --> 00:28:15,970
know a lot more about. 
But he does seem as the 

395
00:28:15,970 --> 00:28:20,050
reputation of being this great 
defender of free speech. 

396
00:28:20,170 --> 00:28:22,970
And so he wouldn't. 
He wouldn't have done anything 

397
00:28:22,970 --> 00:28:26,290
like that lightly. 
No, I guess he was just, yeah, 

398
00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:30,170
he was just having to bow to 
orders from above. 

399
00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:36,130
Well, obviously trying to get 
the show out that week, which is

400
00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:40,220
his job, so yeah. 
So what they've done. 

401
00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:43,740
So as I say, they they've 
they've shoehorned in these 

402
00:28:45,460 --> 00:28:48,260
little references to a sleeping 
Prince. 

403
00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:56,100
They've they've crossed out 
references to references to 

404
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:58,100
Civil War, haven't they? 
And they've just replaced the 

405
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:01,340
word civil or the phrase civil 
war with the word revolution. 

406
00:29:01,380 --> 00:29:03,660
Yeah, yeah. 
And they've taken out all 

407
00:29:03,660 --> 00:29:07,180
references to South America and 
made it the South Pacific. 

408
00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:12,930
Just by idea, say, just to make 
it seem a little less 

409
00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:16,770
contentious, I mean, nobody. 
You may think of a revolution in

410
00:29:16,770 --> 00:29:22,810
South America, but nobody ever 
thinks of Fiji having a 

411
00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:26,810
revolution or. 
Wow, funny enough, in the 80s 

412
00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:29,370
the Saint remember Fiji had 
loads of Coos. 

413
00:29:29,410 --> 00:29:34,060
Electric Coos. 
No, but you are right, the South

414
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:36,380
Pacific certainly at that time 
would not have not, would not 

415
00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:39,140
have been synonymous with the 
violent uprising. 

416
00:29:40,860 --> 00:29:42,740
But of course, yeah, all they've
done is they've just, they've 

417
00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:47,620
just in the script, they've just
changed South America to the 

418
00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:50,500
South Pacific. 
But we still have characters 

419
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:55,660
such as General Gonzalez Mess, 
who I referred to earlier. 

420
00:29:56,820 --> 00:30:00,140
Yes, the the Rhino talks that 
this isn't Latin America. 

421
00:30:01,450 --> 00:30:05,090
Yes, sorry, at that point and 
that was about halfway through 

422
00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:07,930
in the of the run out of time 
changing things. 

423
00:30:09,730 --> 00:30:13,170
I mean, Greenslope does turn up 
with a French accent towards the

424
00:30:13,170 --> 00:30:18,250
end, so I'm wondering whether as
he always does, Yeah, I'm just 

425
00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:20,410
wondering you could you could 
stretch your point and say, 

426
00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:23,410
wasn't it French Tahiti back in 
the? 

427
00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:29,330
Tahitis French and some of the 
other Polynesian islands, I 

428
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:31,900
think. 
I need the El Gobo demands 

429
00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:34,260
unconditional surrender. 
What are his terms? 

430
00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:39,420
£5 down at three or nine a week.
Tell me we've figured over. 

431
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:44,140
I've got this theory about 
Greenslade and the French 

432
00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:48,420
accent. 
I mean he before he joined the 

433
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:51,420
BBC he worked for the P&O 
shipping line. 

434
00:30:52,290 --> 00:30:57,970
He was, and I've got this 
feeling that the French accent 

435
00:30:57,970 --> 00:31:03,050
may be intended as revenge on 
every awkward French customer he

436
00:31:03,050 --> 00:31:06,770
ever had. 
His torturous rendering of the 

437
00:31:06,850 --> 00:31:09,930
French accent? 
Yes, quite possibly. 

438
00:31:11,530 --> 00:31:16,210
And I suppose because it's not, 
it's not necessarily a show that

439
00:31:16,210 --> 00:31:19,890
gets talked about very much, 
even in goon circles. 

440
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:23,900
But it is famous. 
If it's famous for anything, 

441
00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:28,020
it's probably famous for the 
glorious national anthem. 

442
00:31:29,260 --> 00:31:32,780
Absolutely. 
I think it's seven times it gets

443
00:31:32,940 --> 00:31:39,420
played during the episode. 
Yes, that's just that is just 

444
00:31:39,540 --> 00:32:12,220
the highlight. 
In 1991, Angela Morley was 

445
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:18,620
interviewed and talks about 
Spike asking for this national 

446
00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:24,710
anthem and. 
And it's a series. 

447
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:26,830
And don't ask me to name all the
different instruments that are 

448
00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:29,990
used, but it's a series of 
different instruments. 

449
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:33,670
And each time they were played, 
this was played to Spike. 

450
00:32:33,670 --> 00:32:36,750
He said no, it sounds too good. 
He wanted he wanted it to sound 

451
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:41,630
much more lame, much more off 
kilter, I suppose. 

452
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:45,830
It did occur. 
It did occur to me once, so I 

453
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:48,030
wonder if I could have that 
played at my funeral. 

454
00:32:49,250 --> 00:32:51,090
Can you imagine? 
Curtains open. 

455
00:32:52,210 --> 00:32:55,690
Hawkin disappears through the 
curtain, setting for the oven. 

456
00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:59,490
And that's plain yeah, great. 
It would be a shame though, to 

457
00:32:59,490 --> 00:33:00,890
be able to see it. 
And it was. 

458
00:33:02,450 --> 00:33:03,730
Happening. 
It's not that long though. 

459
00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:06,530
You might need the 12 inch 
version of the theme tune 

460
00:33:07,170 --> 00:33:10,130
extended version. 
It's only about 14 seconds or 

461
00:33:10,130 --> 00:33:13,730
something that. 
Yeah, the synopsis for the show 

462
00:33:13,770 --> 00:33:16,010
which. 
I have taken from the 

463
00:33:16,490 --> 00:33:19,170
transcription services variety 
catalog. 

464
00:33:20,330 --> 00:33:24,170
Ed Hearn, the lively radio 
reporter, is set to cover a 

465
00:33:24,170 --> 00:33:27,730
dangerous assignment in the 
Republic of Yakibaku where the 

466
00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:31,770
newly elected president, Mr. 
Nettie Tom Dick Harry Segun, is 

467
00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:35,130
due to be installed. 
But all is not well and there 

468
00:33:35,130 --> 00:33:38,330
are rumors of a coup. 
President Segun is in danger. 

469
00:33:38,770 --> 00:33:42,050
How his brilliant strategism 
saves the situation and his life

470
00:33:42,170 --> 00:33:46,020
is revealed in this program. 
There's a stronger plot all the 

471
00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:48,740
way through this than most 
shows, I think. 

472
00:33:49,180 --> 00:33:52,860
I suppose so, and it has a 
proper twist at the end, which 

473
00:33:52,980 --> 00:33:56,980
was good. 
My first criticism, and I'm not 

474
00:33:56,980 --> 00:33:59,980
going to be too critical about 
the show, but I don't like the 

475
00:33:59,980 --> 00:34:02,540
bit right at the beginning where
Wallace talks about the big 

476
00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:04,580
fight. 
I don't. 

477
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:08,060
It's just a lame joke. 
It's not. 

478
00:34:08,179 --> 00:34:12,659
It's not strong at all. 
This is the BBC Light program. 

479
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:15,750
Here is the result of last 
night's big fight. 

480
00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:20,670
Patrick O'donovan, laborer of no
fixed address, six months. 

481
00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:27,630
Michael O'bolligan fined £5. 
Yeah, what they should have 

482
00:34:27,630 --> 00:34:29,909
done, you should have had him 
announcing this is the BBC home 

483
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:32,350
service and then straight into 
the national anthem. 

484
00:34:32,429 --> 00:34:34,949
Yeah, that's that's how it 
should have been. 

485
00:34:34,989 --> 00:34:38,469
Yeah, that's a that's a really 
is quite a lean joke. 

486
00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:42,580
Maybe it was original black 
then, but we've all heard that 

487
00:34:42,580 --> 00:34:46,100
many times since. 
One of the things, one of the 

488
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:49,100
elements of the original 
broadcast that was cut for the 

489
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:53,100
transcription services version 
where references to Christmas. 

490
00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:57,660
Yes, I There was no important 
reason for it being Christmas in

491
00:34:57,660 --> 00:35:01,140
the Labor exchange. 
Well, it's it's recorded in OK, 

492
00:35:01,140 --> 00:35:03,900
it's early November, so it's a 
bit too early these days. 

493
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:05,180
It wouldn't be too early for. 
Christmas. 

494
00:35:06,940 --> 00:35:10,900
This is 1956. 
I mean, I don't England's 

495
00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,140
different, but up here Christmas
didn't even become a public 

496
00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:19,060
holiday until 1958. 
So hang on, hang on. 

497
00:35:19,420 --> 00:35:21,340
Sorry you didn't have Christmas 
Day off. 

498
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:24,340
No, that wasn't a public holiday
until 1958. 

499
00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:28,540
Blimey, yeah. 
New Year. 

500
00:35:29,060 --> 00:35:31,780
How many? 
How many is much more important,

501
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:33,380
isn't? 
It, yeah, And still well. 

502
00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:36,630
Of this day, Boxing Day is not a
public holiday here. 

503
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:40,590
It's the 2nd of January. 
Yeah, Okay, yeah. 

504
00:35:41,150 --> 00:35:45,030
So yeah, with the labor, another
references, another reference to

505
00:35:45,870 --> 00:35:48,550
a labor exchange, which Spike 
was very fond of. 

506
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:54,790
In fact, I was watching one of 
his queue sketches, which was 

507
00:35:54,790 --> 00:35:58,470
largely set in a labor exchange.
He's got a real fondness that 

508
00:35:58,470 --> 00:36:02,350
can see, doesn't he? 
Because, again, I suppose it's. 

509
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,280
And I said this on a previous 
show. 

510
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,240
When we're talking about 
insurance, the white man's 

511
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:12,840
burden, the phrase labor 
exchange to me just conjures up 

512
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,760
this rather drab image of a 
rather pale, sad faced men 

513
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,440
sitting in a waiting room 
waiting to be cold, you know? 

514
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:27,240
And Neddy arrives, wishing 
everyone a Merry Christmas, and 

515
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:31,580
he's trying to avoid work. 
I suppose it's fair to say. 

516
00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:35,060
Is is looking for a job that 
doesn't involve work? 

517
00:36:35,660 --> 00:36:40,340
Yeah, and he's he's met by Grit 
Piper Moriarty. 

518
00:36:40,540 --> 00:36:44,460
So again, it's one of these 
scams played upon Eddie by Grit 

519
00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:49,740
Piper Moriarty, isn't it? 
Yeah, Mori Moriarty is a 

520
00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:52,220
minister from the Republic of 
Yukabaku. 

521
00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:56,900
I love the way Milligan 
pronounces Yukabaku. 

522
00:36:57,020 --> 00:36:59,700
Yeah, it bounces about quite a 
bit, doesn't it, Between them? 

523
00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:05,880
Yeah. 
And I'm get, I mean, it's almost

524
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,480
like Sally's struggles with the 
word, because there's a couple 

525
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,160
of times when Milligan has to 
say it for him, but I'm not sure

526
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,200
if that's if that's just done 
for comic effect. 

527
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,200
I am count. 
Fred Legs Moriarty. 

528
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,920
Thank you. 
Unimportant Minister. 

529
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,800
Extraordinary to the Republic, 
yes. 

530
00:37:30,610 --> 00:37:33,250
Eddie, you must stop those witty
salads and report to me at once.

531
00:37:33,650 --> 00:37:34,930
Merry Christmas. 
Thank you, Ned. 

532
00:37:35,130 --> 00:37:38,410
So they tell Ned that there's a 
unemployed job going with money 

533
00:37:38,410 --> 00:37:45,290
attached and it is to become the
president of this Pacific 

534
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:49,730
Republic. 
It pays £40,000 in yakapu 

535
00:37:50,090 --> 00:37:56,770
yakapaku money. 
And then we we have segone bound

536
00:37:56,770 --> 00:37:58,970
for the South Pacific and we 
have. 

537
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,040
Ed Hearn, the American voice 
that Peter would occasionally 

538
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,280
essay. 
I think it was on the Parkinson 

539
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,320
show that he said that very 
often they would come. 

540
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,400
He would come up with voices 
based on the sounds rather than 

541
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,640
the words, So her and her and 
her and her and her kind of. 

542
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,040
Thing I think of it as a sort of
Voice of America shortwave 

543
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,960
broadcast that that we're 
hearing that. 

544
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,600
Yes, it's a very, very 
authoritative, kind of almost Ed

545
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,280
Morrow kind of voice. 
This is Station Hearn Hearn of 

546
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,960
the Hearn Hearn Network. 
Ed Hearn reporting today on 

547
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,800
board the liner s s Hearn Hearn 
arriving at the part of Punk and

548
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,960
Otis in the Republic of Yucabar.
Cool is the newly elected 

549
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,640
President Mr. Nettie Tom Deck 
Harry Seguin of London, England.

550
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,040
Hearn Hearn of the Hearn Hearn I
hopes are entertained of the 

551
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,400
installation of this 23 stone 
President will have a 

552
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,920
stabilizing effect on the 
country. 

553
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,760
So Seguin arrives in at the port
of Yakibeku. 

554
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,840
Is is told that this revolution 
in progress and he's. 

555
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,000
He's being shot at and he's 
shown or he's taken to his 

556
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,760
private chambers, which turns 
out to be William. 

557
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,800
He's from the Battersea Labor 
Exchange. 

558
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,640
He's got that job. 
So obviously just repeating on 

559
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,720
the joke about the people being 
given jobs in Yakobaku from 

560
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,000
England. 
I didn't check actually. 

561
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,840
Did you check in the script? 
Because there's one point where 

562
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,400
William talks about what does he
say? 

563
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,470
Let me just see me script here. 
He said. 

564
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:31,870
I haven't had any Connor since 
the revolution started and I 

565
00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:33,870
thought that was possibly an ad 
Lib, but was that actually in 

566
00:39:33,870 --> 00:39:36,990
the original script? 
Yes, Chris, I say. 

567
00:39:36,990 --> 00:39:43,790
Connor spelt KONNAH. 
Right, Okay, I'd never heard of 

568
00:39:43,790 --> 00:39:45,870
that slang before. 
Had you heard of? 

569
00:39:45,870 --> 00:39:49,270
That Not at all, no. 
And all I could find, and I'm 

570
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:51,910
not even sure if this is 
accurate, is that it was army 

571
00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:55,570
slang for tinned food. 
That would make sense, yeah. 

572
00:39:56,130 --> 00:40:00,690
Yeah, yeah. 
So before we go any further, one

573
00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:03,850
thing I forgot to ask, we've 
skipped over Max Galdrey's 

574
00:40:03,850 --> 00:40:08,490
number with regards to the music
in the Goon Show. 

575
00:40:09,090 --> 00:40:12,290
You know, do you steadfastly 
listen to every single note or 

576
00:40:12,290 --> 00:40:16,130
do you skip forward? 
I never ever skipped forward. 

577
00:40:18,050 --> 00:40:21,610
I think I possibly did once as I
says that. 

578
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,400
First, those first good shows I 
had with the MI recording, which

579
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,720
didn't have the music on them 
and it was a bit of a surprise 

580
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,400
when I started getting good 
shows that did. 

581
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,920
But I may have skipped over once
or twice. 

582
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,120
But it was the days of cassette 
tape and it was all too much 

583
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,680
bother. 
So nowadays I know I wouldn't 

584
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,680
it's I'm I'm a big admirer to 
Max these days anyway. 

585
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,080
I think he's absolutely 
terrific. 

586
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,720
When I was growing up, a mouth 
organ was a common thing. 

587
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,400
I mean, I knew two or three 
people would always have one in 

588
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,840
their pocket and would come up 
with a tunic from time to time. 

589
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:08,800
But nowadays, I mean I've When's
the last time you saw a 

590
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,560
harmonica? 
It was probably an episode of 

591
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,440
I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue from 
15 years ago because Graham 

592
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,360
Garden used to occasionally pull
his. 

593
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,120
Now forking out. 
And when he was, when he was 

594
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,120
doing one song to the tune of 
another as Bob Dylan or 

595
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,400
something, Yeah, a little 
flourish at the end. 

596
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,840
Yeah, because I actually, I 
hadn't heard one for years and 

597
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,680
then two or three months ago I 
was in Belfast and there was a 

598
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,920
there was a fellow busking 
outside. 

599
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,520
Does it St. 
George's Market there? 

600
00:41:45,980 --> 00:41:48,540
Yeah, and there was a there was 
a fellow at the harmonica 

601
00:41:48,540 --> 00:41:51,740
busking, and it was the first 
time I'd seen one in years. 

602
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:55,180
Buskers. 
These days they've moved on from

603
00:41:55,180 --> 00:41:56,660
the harmonica, haven't they? 
Buskers. 

604
00:41:56,820 --> 00:42:02,700
Yes, but I mean, I just, I 
admire what Max could do with 

605
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:05,700
that instrument. 
I mean, if you've listened to 

606
00:42:06,460 --> 00:42:12,780
Bob Dylan's Sucking Blow style 
and people like Max. 

607
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:16,550
Always is is lifting it almost 
to concerto level. 

608
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:21,870
Yeah, quite remarkable. 
I want to ask you as well, 

609
00:42:22,910 --> 00:42:26,150
because you did mention I meant 
to we we kind of got tied up 

610
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:28,950
talking about the Hungarian 
uprising, but you mentioned that

611
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:33,670
you didn't, you didn't grow up 
in a house with certainly you 

612
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:35,230
sort of listening to radio 
comedy. 

613
00:42:36,310 --> 00:42:38,670
Did you did you go out watching 
TV comedy? 

614
00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:40,390
Did you were you into comedy 
generally? 

615
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:42,110
Were you a younger, a younger 
man? 

616
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:45,110
I liked it. 
Comedy wasn't a big thing, you 

617
00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:51,030
know, And I was trying to 
remember back we saw some 

618
00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:57,870
setcomes just because there was 
only like two or three channels 

619
00:42:57,870 --> 00:42:59,070
at most. 
So you did. 

620
00:42:59,670 --> 00:43:02,750
It was a big final Harry worth 
it shows. 

621
00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:06,150
His shows were good. 
Harry Worth, who's mainly 

622
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:09,110
remembered now, I guess, for 
that window, yeah. 

623
00:43:10,590 --> 00:43:13,230
Thing, isn't he? 
Yeah, but he was this fun, 

624
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:15,790
bumbling character. 
It's funny, though. 

625
00:43:15,830 --> 00:43:20,430
He's almost completely forgotten
now, even among people like me, 

626
00:43:20,430 --> 00:43:22,750
you know, who are into old 
comedy. 

627
00:43:22,990 --> 00:43:26,470
Yeah, really into old comedy 
he's never talked about. 

628
00:43:26,590 --> 00:43:30,270
Okay, here's here's a test on 
old comedy for you. 

629
00:43:30,990 --> 00:43:37,510
One of the earliest sitcoms I 
remember seeing was All Gas and 

630
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:41,500
Gators. 
Yeah, Did you know that one? 

631
00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:47,180
Yeah, I mean, it was a it was a 
clerical comedy, wasn't it? 

632
00:43:47,740 --> 00:43:50,780
Yes, it was. 
It was the Father Ted of its 

633
00:43:50,780 --> 00:43:52,700
time. 
Was it? 

634
00:43:53,660 --> 00:43:55,620
I want to say, Robertson hair? 
Was he? 

635
00:43:55,820 --> 00:43:59,260
That sounds separate, right? 
Derek Nemo, I think was the. 

636
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:04,060
Derek Nemo. 
Was the Indian leads Yeah, Jones

637
00:44:04,060 --> 00:44:08,610
Sanderson is a battle axe wife. 
Of course, didn't actually go 

638
00:44:08,650 --> 00:44:13,330
into the opening credits. 
Did James Anderson play anything

639
00:44:13,370 --> 00:44:17,730
other than a Battle X? 
No, not really. 

640
00:44:17,730 --> 00:44:18,970
No, I don't think so. 
No. 

641
00:44:19,370 --> 00:44:23,610
But I mean all gas for those who
haven't seen it, all gas and 

642
00:44:23,610 --> 00:44:29,210
Gators imagine Father Ted, but 
it's certain somewhere in the 

643
00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:33,410
Church of England. 
It's for BBC One in the mid 60s.

644
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:39,270
It's all about drinking glasses 
of Sherry and the main argument 

645
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:42,590
seems to be between the 
Anglicans and the Methodists. 

646
00:44:43,230 --> 00:44:46,870
Yeah, I have. 
I I watched, I've watched it at 

647
00:44:47,070 --> 00:44:49,830
least a couple of episodes over 
the years with friends because 

648
00:44:49,830 --> 00:44:53,590
we watch a lot of old comedy, 
general, whatever we can get, 

649
00:44:53,590 --> 00:44:56,510
you know? 
And I remember now yet. 

650
00:44:58,310 --> 00:45:02,150
Derek Nemo as the young kind of 
upstart. 

651
00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:04,480
Yeah. 
Priest And then you've got 

652
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:12,640
Robertson here. 
And I think your man, William 

653
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:17,400
Mervyn, is that his name? 
From Mr. Rose, the television 

654
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:23,960
show Mr. Rose. 
But yes, that was. 

655
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,240
John Barron was in it as well. 
John Barron, yes. 

656
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,720
Okay, that was the other one. 
But yeah, it wasn't. 

657
00:45:32,990 --> 00:45:35,910
It wasn't laugh out loud 
slapstick comedy, that's for 

658
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:42,270
sure. 11 show I remember seeing 
at one point was the radio ham 

659
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:47,590
the Hancock episode which 
coincidentally, as Google tells 

660
00:45:47,590 --> 00:45:51,510
me this morning that it's the 
62nd anniversary of its first 

661
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:56,430
broadcast. 
I say that that was that was I 

662
00:45:56,430 --> 00:45:59,470
saw that. 
But such was my ignorance of 

663
00:45:59,470 --> 00:46:03,630
things, it wasn't until. 
I was in the 1990s. 

664
00:46:03,950 --> 00:46:08,110
I was on the Internet and there 
were discussion groups and old 

665
00:46:08,110 --> 00:46:10,470
radio comedy. 
I discovered there was actually 

666
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:14,030
a Hancock radio series. 
Wow. 

667
00:46:16,030 --> 00:46:17,870
Really. 
That's yeah. 

668
00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:24,390
I didn't I I missed an awful lot
and the and the things I think 

669
00:46:24,430 --> 00:46:31,430
of I hadn't heard any around the
horn or Navy Lark or. 

670
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:37,960
Look, I'm not. 
I'm not giving anything away 

671
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,160
here because you've already 
revealed that you were born in 

672
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,520
late 56, okay? 
So you are a gentleman in your 

673
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,040
60s. 
But I gather that from what 

674
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:54,600
you're telling me, you didn't 
really discover classic comedy 

675
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,510
till you were. 
Much later in life, really, than

676
00:46:58,750 --> 00:47:00,710
most of us would have done. 
Yeah, as I said I was. 

677
00:47:00,710 --> 00:47:05,150
I was at university when I got 
that first good shows tape. 

678
00:47:05,230 --> 00:47:07,310
And yeah. 
There were two or three other 

679
00:47:07,310 --> 00:47:10,430
things. 
I mean, it was some Stanley 

680
00:47:10,430 --> 00:47:12,910
Holloway monologues and things 
like that. 

681
00:47:14,430 --> 00:47:16,310
I did. 
I mean, I did like comedy and 

682
00:47:16,310 --> 00:47:20,750
there's A and I had picked up on
a few things when I was at 

683
00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:24,310
secondary school. 
We had a music teacher and it is

684
00:47:24,310 --> 00:47:27,530
mean. 
His main target was to get us 

685
00:47:27,530 --> 00:47:31,610
doing a Gilbert and Sullivan 
operator at the at the end of 

686
00:47:31,610 --> 00:47:38,370
the year, but it would, it would
come up with some a variety of 

687
00:47:38,370 --> 00:47:42,530
things and one of the things he 
introduced us to was Spike Jones

688
00:47:42,530 --> 00:47:50,730
and his city slickers, which I a
couple of weeks ago, well, 

689
00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:54,450
couple of months ago now, 
probably I lost half a day. 

690
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,000
I went on to YouTube and put in 
searches for Spike Jones and 

691
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,040
Doodles Weaver and just lost 
half the day watching some of 

692
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,080
the stuff that's so in there. 
It's absolutely wonderful. 

693
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,360
Around the first turn, Stu Jan 
is still in front cabbage is 

694
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,840
second by a head cabbage. 
By a head. 

695
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,680
Beautiful. 
Linda is third and Beetle Bomb 

696
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,200
into the backspets. 
Dog Biscuit is now leading the 

697
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,240
pack. 
Lady Evelyn is second, Very 

698
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:27,280
close. 
Banana is coming up through the 

699
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:28,960
bunch. 
Banana coming up through the 

700
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,560
bunch. 
And Beetle bomb at the half. 

701
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,080
Stu Jan still out in front 
apartment house is second with 

702
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,600
plenty of room assault. 
This passing battery is notary, 

703
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,960
so Jack is for than in last 
place by 10 lengths. 

704
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,360
I believe it is. 
Yes, it is feet. 

705
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,640
Oh. 
My the the the man who inspired 

706
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,640
Spike Milligan's pseudonym. 
Isn't he? 

707
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,440
Well, that's what's arguments 
about that. 

708
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,760
Was it Spike Jones or was it 
Spike Hughes who was a British 

709
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,510
jazz trumpeter? 
Was it? 

710
00:49:03,710 --> 00:49:05,270
I always thought it was Spike 
Jones. 

711
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:06,910
And then I've got And then I've 
got. 

712
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:08,430
I've got. 
I've got Spike Dixon. 

713
00:49:08,430 --> 00:49:10,270
I'm thinking Spike Dixon. 
No, Spike Dixon. 

714
00:49:10,830 --> 00:49:17,750
Was it Heidi High? 
Yeah, I know there was a BBC did

715
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:22,550
a I think it was BBC Radio did a
documentary about spank Jones 

716
00:49:22,550 --> 00:49:28,790
called King of the Baby Bells 
and Spike Milligan was certainly

717
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:32,530
on that. 
Saying what an influence he was.

718
00:49:32,530 --> 00:49:36,530
And then so was George Chisholm.
George Chisholm, who presumably 

719
00:49:36,930 --> 00:49:41,370
I'm assuming was part of the 
Glorious National Anthem 

720
00:49:41,570 --> 00:49:44,210
Orchestra I. 
Presume so, yeah. 

721
00:49:44,650 --> 00:49:46,930
When I was first introduced to 
the Greens. 

722
00:49:47,410 --> 00:49:50,050
Oh, George Chisholm. 
There's a name I know at least 

723
00:49:50,050 --> 00:49:53,130
because he was Scottish and he 
got written about in Scottish 

724
00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:55,250
newspapers and. 
Yeah. 

725
00:49:55,690 --> 00:49:59,130
So back to the back to the show,
so that he is the newly 

726
00:49:59,130 --> 00:50:02,690
installed president and there's 
there's the sound of rapid 

727
00:50:02,690 --> 00:50:08,050
machine gunfire and that he's 
talking with the General 

728
00:50:08,050 --> 00:50:11,530
Gonzales Mess, who is leader of 
both sides in the glorious 

729
00:50:11,530 --> 00:50:15,250
revolution. 
And and that he says, hey, 

730
00:50:15,250 --> 00:50:19,610
somebody shot at me and Gonzales
Mess says it's your imagination.

731
00:50:19,810 --> 00:50:22,010
And he says, then what are these
bullet holes in my bed sheets? 

732
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:27,150
Gonzalez Mess says they are 
looking through Senor, which is 

733
00:50:27,150 --> 00:50:30,550
just gets a great reaction from 
the audience and that becomes a 

734
00:50:30,550 --> 00:50:34,870
bit of a running gag. 
It's just continually getting 

735
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:39,150
shot at him. 
Earlier on he was when he 

736
00:50:39,150 --> 00:50:44,390
arrived on Yakabaku, he was sent
off on a a trip through the 

737
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:49,830
streets and an open, open top 
car while Greg Pipe and Moriarty

738
00:50:49,830 --> 00:50:53,080
followed in an armored vehicle. 
Then he's then off to the 

739
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,440
British embassy because he wants
to meet the British ambassador. 

740
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:58,720
Of course. 
Who else would it be? 

741
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:01,480
Winning. 
Mr. Ambassador, I am the new 

742
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:02,640
president. 
Splendid. 

743
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:08,400
I'll open a tin of prune great 
twisted nuglers there early 

744
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,640
tonight. 
One the naughty revolution Part 

745
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,600
2, you mean The drain method is 
disgraceful. 

746
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,040
Fighting after 5:00. 
O'clock. 

747
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,160
We can't afford to pay them 
overtime. 

748
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,230
Come on to me, chief. 
All in Miami. 

749
00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:26,350
Season your But First, our 
glorious National Anthem. 

750
00:51:26,550 --> 00:51:52,280
No. 
Merry Christmas. 

751
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:58,240
Thank you, Senor. 
Now Imperial Army of Yakabaku on

752
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:10,560
plane. 
Imperial Army Shem present ham 

753
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,840
Imperial Army from. 
The right number. 1. 

754
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:27,000
All correct in your. 
And to me, what follows, which 

755
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:31,240
is straight after the Railington
number, to me, is one of the 

756
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:35,960
greatest echoes and Blue Bottle 
sequences in the show's history.

757
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:42,480
Yeah, it's just a great example 
of that tape and Blue Bottle 

758
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,640
gets the left best line in the 
whole show. 

759
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,400
Yeah, so we've got, we've got 
echoes and. 

760
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,400
Blue Bottle, who are the the 
army? 

761
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:56,480
The army? 
They are in the in the jungle, 

762
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,480
in the rebel held jungle. 
Not quite sure what they're 

763
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,480
doing there. 
They just they're just 

764
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:02,920
responsible for guarding the 
president basically. 

765
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:09,840
And Blue Bottle asks Eccles how 
he got the job of being in the 

766
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,880
president's army and Eccles won 
it in a raffle and Blue Bottle 

767
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,800
got his from a cracker at Myrtle
Springs birthday party. 

768
00:53:19,700 --> 00:53:24,180
Yes, and the blue bottle cut his
uniform out of the back of a 

769
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:26,980
cornflakes packet. 
Yes. 

770
00:53:30,140 --> 00:53:32,180
Have you ever fired your gun? 
Yet. 

771
00:53:32,220 --> 00:53:35,500
Oh no. 
Oh no. 

772
00:53:36,580 --> 00:53:40,940
Let us fire it then. 
Oh yeah, you're that's a good 

773
00:53:41,140 --> 00:53:43,260
idea. 
You fired it. 

774
00:53:43,260 --> 00:53:47,610
Oh, no, no. 
You, you know you part a gun. 

775
00:53:48,210 --> 00:53:49,930
No, you're the one with the 
bullet. 

776
00:53:49,930 --> 00:53:53,810
You do it. 
No, no, no. 

777
00:53:53,810 --> 00:53:56,930
I haven't signed for it. 
You, I don't want to do that. 

778
00:53:56,930 --> 00:53:59,390
I don't. 
I don't want to have any trouble

779
00:53:59,390 --> 00:54:00,750
on my end. 
I don't want that. 

780
00:54:01,830 --> 00:54:08,030
I've been to the doctor and he 
said I got nothing like that 

781
00:54:08,030 --> 00:54:15,110
about him. 
I got an uncle in Australia. 

782
00:54:15,110 --> 00:54:16,710
You be careful what you said to 
me. 

783
00:54:16,750 --> 00:54:27,630
I got an uncle in. 
Australia. 

784
00:54:28,310 --> 00:54:30,670
The Boss Pond Rd. 
Best Shirt Wash. 

785
00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:33,590
No. 
Well then, you watch what you're

786
00:54:33,630 --> 00:54:44,350
saying. 
Echoes is trying to intimidate, 

787
00:54:44,350 --> 00:54:46,510
I suppose. 
Blue Bottle at one point. 

788
00:54:47,230 --> 00:54:49,830
And then he only could. 
The only thing he could grasp at

789
00:54:49,830 --> 00:54:52,750
is to is to shout I've got an 
uncle in Australia. 

790
00:54:52,750 --> 00:54:54,030
You be careful what you say to 
me. 

791
00:54:54,310 --> 00:54:57,480
I've got an uncle in Australia. 
Yeah, and I don't. 

792
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,240
I don't get the bit the Blue 
Bottle says. 

793
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,200
But Blue Bottle then counters 
with You heard of the Bulls Pond

794
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,960
Rd. 
Best Shirt wash, I think. 

795
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,000
And Echo says no and he says, 
well then you watch what you're 

796
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:07,760
saying. 
I don't. 

797
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,200
I don't get that if I am I 
missing something there. 

798
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:16,600
The Balls Pond Rd. comes up a 
few times over the over the 

799
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,600
series. 
It's just a funny name. 

800
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,600
I think there's a street in 
London. 

801
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,560
Well, it's got the word balls. 
Exactly, yeah. 

802
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,680
Yeah. 
I think just trying to be silly 

803
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,400
with it. 
I think is the explanation. 

804
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:38,160
And Blue Bottle manages to trick
Echoes into firing his rifle 

805
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:39,400
Echo. 
Yeah. 

806
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,160
What is that dirty little piece 
of curve metal sticking up from 

807
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:44,200
under your rifle? 
Yeah. 

808
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:51,680
That I don't know. 
Yeah, Echo. 

809
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:55,460
Catch your finger on it and then
see what happens. 

810
00:55:57,100 --> 00:56:04,340
OK. 
Did someone find a guarantee? 

811
00:56:05,260 --> 00:56:06,700
Oh no. 
There. 

812
00:56:06,700 --> 00:56:08,660
What's this hole in the seat of 
my trousers? 

813
00:56:09,740 --> 00:56:21,700
That's what looking. 
Through. 

814
00:56:21,810 --> 00:56:34,690
Let me have a look through. 
I remember when I first heard 

815
00:56:34,690 --> 00:56:39,690
this laughing so much when Neddy
says what's this hole in the 

816
00:56:39,690 --> 00:56:41,730
seat of my trousers? 
And Blue Bottle says that's for 

817
00:56:41,730 --> 00:56:45,050
looking through. 
And I laugh so much at that. 

818
00:56:45,050 --> 00:56:47,410
And then when Echo says here, 
let me have a look through and 

819
00:56:47,410 --> 00:56:51,330
then there's that. 
Perfect pause and he goes and 

820
00:56:51,330 --> 00:56:57,010
you hear somebody presume that 
must be sellers kind of loses it

821
00:56:58,490 --> 00:57:05,330
off mic and it's just a real 
deep appreciation of the 

822
00:57:05,330 --> 00:57:10,530
performance you know and I just 
now I just thought it was that 

823
00:57:10,530 --> 00:57:15,170
was such a brilliant little 
sequence and I don't quite know 

824
00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:17,020
so. 
Again, I didn't quite know what 

825
00:57:17,020 --> 00:57:21,700
this meant when I first heard it
because Echoes is looking 

826
00:57:21,700 --> 00:57:24,460
through the hole and Ned's 
trousers and he says there's 

827
00:57:24,460 --> 00:57:27,780
somebody inside and it's a 
stowaway and it's blood, knock 

828
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:30,420
and Ned. 
He says Gad, the British 

829
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:32,180
ambassador, what were you doing 
in my trousers? 

830
00:57:33,380 --> 00:57:37,460
And in the script there was 
something written for him to say

831
00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:40,340
and it's been heavily crossed 
out to the to the extent I can't

832
00:57:40,340 --> 00:57:43,540
actually read through the 
crossing out what was said. 

833
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,120
And then it's just replaced with
the word slumming in Myro. 

834
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:52,960
And the line slumming got a huge
response from the audience, 

835
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:54,560
didn't it? 
Yeah. 

836
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,000
Did it seem? 
Did it seem a little bit 

837
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:02,440
excessive to you? 
Yeah, there may well have been 

838
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,160
some carry on going on on stage,
as that often was. 

839
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,480
Yes. 
It was quite interesting. 

840
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,600
One of the one of the articles 
I. 

841
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:22,360
Published on the website 
recently was a BBC engineer, a 

842
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,920
recording engineer, Eddie Mills 
and he he did a full description

843
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,400
of what it was like at a a 
recording and he talked quite a 

844
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,920
bit about they would actually 
use it as technique for some 

845
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:40,800
sort of carry on on stage just 
to get a better laugh and there 

846
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,380
were times where. 
They didn't think the sound 

847
00:58:44,380 --> 00:58:47,620
effect was going to be too 
effective, so there'd be some 

848
00:58:47,620 --> 00:58:51,500
sort of visual gag going on. 
At the same time, the audience 

849
00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:56,420
in the studio might never have 
heard the sound effect, but the 

850
00:58:56,420 --> 00:59:02,220
recording had it with the sound 
effect and a great laugh, so you

851
00:59:02,220 --> 00:59:05,140
can never be sure what's going 
on in the background of these 

852
00:59:05,140 --> 00:59:09,180
things. 
Blood Not reveals the sinister 

853
00:59:09,180 --> 00:59:12,620
plot to assassinate Seguin and 
take his wages. 

854
00:59:13,250 --> 00:59:17,050
And that he flees the 
presidential palace and accepts 

855
00:59:17,050 --> 00:59:19,130
an offer from the rebels to 
sleep in their prison free of 

856
00:59:19,130 --> 00:59:23,370
charge. 
And we have a rather shoehorned 

857
00:59:23,370 --> 00:59:26,410
in Minnie and Henry sequence. 
Yeah, just they're trying to 

858
00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:29,650
prepare him. 
Just just get them in for the 

859
00:59:29,810 --> 00:59:31,770
couple of lines. 
So they've been in the show and 

860
00:59:31,770 --> 00:59:35,970
that's about it. 
Yeah, and this is quite dark. 

861
00:59:36,130 --> 00:59:40,210
The the, the preparing Neddy for
his execution. 

862
00:59:42,330 --> 00:59:46,450
And Sega has his last request. 
He he asked that they play the 

863
00:59:46,450 --> 00:59:52,090
glorious national anthem again. 
But he says for Plunger, Bailey,

864
00:59:52,170 --> 00:59:55,690
White, Chunky, Pinhead and all 
the lads in Q7 at Battersea 

865
00:59:55,690 --> 00:59:58,850
Labor Exchange, I'd like you to 
play your glorious national 

866
00:59:58,850 --> 01:00:00,690
anthem. 
Did did anything jump out at 

867
01:00:00,690 --> 01:00:05,090
you, that list of names? 
Not specifically the best known.

868
01:00:05,810 --> 01:00:08,050
Have you ever read Milligan's 
war memoirs? 

869
01:00:08,810 --> 01:00:12,620
I've a long time ago. 
Of these, right okay. 

870
01:00:12,780 --> 01:00:15,460
Of these characters from these 
his past. 

871
01:00:15,460 --> 01:00:18,460
Wow. 
Certainly the name you jumped 

872
01:00:18,460 --> 01:00:21,860
out at me was Plunger Bailey 
Okay. 

873
01:00:22,620 --> 01:00:29,700
He was in Bexhill on Sea with 
Spike and the lads, and he had a

874
01:00:29,700 --> 01:00:39,060
celebrated act, if you like, 
which I'll described as quite. 

875
01:00:39,610 --> 01:00:46,970
Sensitively, it consisted of him
performing a series of wedding 

876
01:00:46,970 --> 01:00:52,930
tackle impressions, if you like,
such as with titles such as The 

877
01:00:52,930 --> 01:00:59,010
Last Turkey in the Shop, Sausage
on a Plate and, with the aid of 

878
01:00:59,010 --> 01:01:01,050
a pair of spectacles, Groucho 
Marx. 

879
01:01:01,970 --> 01:01:06,050
Yes, the last Turkey in the shop
was in. 

880
01:01:07,090 --> 01:01:10,330
Was it the Red Fort episode that
was performed? 

881
01:01:10,970 --> 01:01:13,770
It's. 
The last take in the shop was a 

882
01:01:14,210 --> 01:01:19,650
phrase that spiked like to use a
lot, but yeah, so, so under the 

883
01:01:19,650 --> 01:01:23,610
cover of the Yakibaku in 
National anthem, Neddy makes 

884
01:01:23,610 --> 01:01:28,970
good his escape and that, that 
and that is it, is it? 

885
01:01:30,330 --> 01:01:33,850
It's so hard with these goon 
shows to to do justice to them, 

886
01:01:34,370 --> 01:01:35,410
of course. 
Yeah. 

887
01:01:35,970 --> 01:01:38,820
That's. 
It's an unusual ending and that 

888
01:01:38,820 --> 01:01:41,860
all of a sudden maybe has done 
something sensible. 

889
01:01:42,140 --> 01:01:46,740
He's created the diversion, got 
the whole shooting party to 

890
01:01:46,740 --> 01:01:50,380
stand to attention, and 
disappeared while they're doing 

891
01:01:50,380 --> 01:01:52,340
that. 
It's just unusual. 

892
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:56,060
He's got one over on Piper 
Moriarty, which does happen, but

893
01:01:56,060 --> 01:02:01,380
not not often. 
And then right to the end, I 

894
01:02:01,380 --> 01:02:04,700
guess they they had to do this 
because they've been doing it 

895
01:02:04,700 --> 01:02:15,810
all through the show. 
You have just been listening to 

896
01:02:15,930 --> 01:02:21,850
The Sleeping Prince, oh Prince, 
Prince. 

897
01:02:22,170 --> 01:02:22,570
What? 
What? 

898
01:02:22,650 --> 01:02:24,170
What? 
Come on, Prince. 

899
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:32,830
Time to go home. 
And so in this week's gun show. 

900
01:02:33,110 --> 01:02:36,190
Again, I just don't know and it 
never I've said it before. 

901
01:02:36,190 --> 01:02:39,230
It just never occurred to me 
when I used to listen to the 

902
01:02:39,230 --> 01:02:44,910
show that there was absolutely 
no connection or what the reason

903
01:02:44,910 --> 01:02:46,830
was. 
I think I may have thought that 

904
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:50,890
cuz I know in the in the last. 
At last to go on show, when 

905
01:02:50,890 --> 01:02:53,850
Angela Morley's interviewed 
about the national anthem, she 

906
01:02:53,850 --> 01:02:59,450
describes the country that the 
anthem is for as being like a 

907
01:02:59,450 --> 01:03:04,730
Ruritanian country, I think like
in The Prisoner of Xenda, which 

908
01:03:04,730 --> 01:03:07,450
would have a Crown Prince kind 
of figure. 

909
01:03:07,970 --> 01:03:12,170
So maybe that kind of I'm 
thinking that there's a there's 

910
01:03:12,170 --> 01:03:15,730
a Prince who's asleep while the 
president is being shot at, you 

911
01:03:15,730 --> 01:03:17,450
know? 
Possibly but. 

912
01:03:17,570 --> 01:03:21,890
Possibly, but Angela tended not 
to have a great memory of 

913
01:03:22,330 --> 01:03:25,530
details from the truth from the 
Goon Show. 

914
01:03:25,530 --> 01:03:29,730
She should often say you'd have 
to ask Max because. 

915
01:03:29,810 --> 01:03:34,530
That's right. 
Because she she saw quite a bit 

916
01:03:34,530 --> 01:03:37,130
of Max galdry in later years as 
well, wasn't that? 

917
01:03:38,610 --> 01:03:43,330
Of course this was recorded on 
the 4th of November 956. 

918
01:03:44,090 --> 01:03:45,930
What happened on the 5th of 
November? 

919
01:03:46,750 --> 01:03:50,750
50. 
Six Well, the Hungarian uprising

920
01:03:50,750 --> 01:03:53,070
wasn't the only little war that 
was going on. 

921
01:03:55,870 --> 01:04:00,870
The 5th was the startup. 
Well, the military start of the 

922
01:04:00,870 --> 01:04:04,750
Suez crisis. 
All this moral high ground we 

923
01:04:04,750 --> 01:04:09,630
must respect the Hungarian 
people was a was a bit shaky 

924
01:04:09,630 --> 01:04:12,670
because you know that should we 
talk about the. 

925
01:04:13,220 --> 01:04:16,500
Explain what explained the Suez 
story. 

926
01:04:17,580 --> 01:04:20,340
Yeah, of course they didn't call
it the Suez Crisis at the 

927
01:04:20,340 --> 01:04:23,980
beginning because that would 
have been rather foolhardy. 

928
01:04:24,260 --> 01:04:26,300
But yeah, it was. 
It was what was to become known 

929
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:28,140
as the Suez Crisis. 
Yes, it was. 

930
01:04:28,420 --> 01:04:34,380
Basically there was a conspiracy
between Israel, France and 

931
01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:39,780
Britain, and Egypt had 
nationalized the Suez Canal. 

932
01:04:42,220 --> 01:04:47,820
Which the British and French had
always run and started charging 

933
01:04:47,820 --> 01:04:51,740
fees, money that they used to 
build the Yasuan dam. 

934
01:04:51,740 --> 01:04:59,340
Eventually, and of course this 
was seriously increasing the 

935
01:04:59,340 --> 01:05:02,420
cost of trading with the 
colonies for the British and 

936
01:05:02,420 --> 01:05:07,380
French. 
So the plan was they got the 

937
01:05:07,380 --> 01:05:12,420
Israelis to invade. 
So the Israeli army swept down 

938
01:05:12,420 --> 01:05:15,860
through into the Sinai 
Peninsula, and then the British 

939
01:05:15,860 --> 01:05:20,980
and French were going to pretend
to be peacekeeping forces and 

940
01:05:20,980 --> 01:05:25,900
they would move in, create a 
Demilitarized Zone between the 

941
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:29,300
Egyptians and the Israelis, 
which would just happen to 

942
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:31,100
follow the line of the Suez 
Canal. 

943
01:05:32,670 --> 01:05:35,070
And the Egyptians weren't 
stupid. 

944
01:05:35,070 --> 01:05:37,950
Nasser wasn't stupid. 
So what was happening? 

945
01:05:37,950 --> 01:05:42,510
And you just scuttled a dozen 
ships in the canal and blocked 

946
01:05:42,510 --> 01:05:44,790
it anyway? 
The British were relying on the 

947
01:05:44,790 --> 01:05:49,830
Americans coming in. 
Well, that was part of it. 

948
01:05:50,590 --> 01:05:54,990
But the Russians were also 
making threats that the French 

949
01:05:54,990 --> 01:05:58,230
it wasn't, let alone they would 
they were going to cause 

950
01:05:58,230 --> 01:06:02,350
trouble, which. 
Which I don't know if the 

951
01:06:02,350 --> 01:06:05,630
Americans wanted any part of its
enemy, but that's certainly made

952
01:06:05,630 --> 01:06:08,910
sure they weren't going to. 
Well, it was an embarrassing, it

953
01:06:08,910 --> 01:06:12,350
was an embarrassing climb down 
for Eden, Prime Minister Anton 

954
01:06:12,350 --> 01:06:18,110
Eden because Eisenhower 
basically told him that all this

955
01:06:18,110 --> 01:06:23,830
had to cease with immediate 
effect and and it effectively 

956
01:06:23,830 --> 01:06:26,430
ended his premiership, didn't 
it? 

957
01:06:27,110 --> 01:06:31,360
That that, well, Eden had. 
In Parliament assuring them that

958
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,560
there were peacekeeping forces 
of what we were sending, which 

959
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:39,920
was untrue. 
Yeah, lying politicians. 

960
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,520
Yeah, and Russia invading 
countries. 

961
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:50,440
Nothing ever changes. 
No, no, no and and the goons, of

962
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,400
course. 
The Suez Crisis has been 

963
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,000
reflected in several goon shows 
and referenced and. 

964
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:01,340
Yeah, three episodes after the. 
Sleeping Prince was broadcast 

965
01:07:01,340 --> 01:07:06,860
was Africa Ship Canal and that 
was, that was a pure satire on 

966
01:07:06,860 --> 01:07:13,340
the on the Suez crisis you've 
got you've got an absolutely 

967
01:07:13,340 --> 01:07:19,180
inept parliament debating the 
problem with the canal being 

968
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:22,580
blocked. 
You've got good pipe and 

969
01:07:22,860 --> 01:07:25,940
basically conspiring to steal 
the canal. 

970
01:07:27,230 --> 01:07:31,150
And it's just, it's just pure 
political satire, as I think the

971
01:07:31,150 --> 01:07:36,950
Greens did, and it went down. 
The BBC allowed it with an 

972
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:40,030
argument, apparently, which just
shows the state of the country 

973
01:07:40,030 --> 01:07:42,310
at the time. 
Yeah, well, I've. 

974
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:44,590
I've said before, probably on 
this show. 

975
01:07:44,590 --> 01:07:46,550
I know I've said it on another 
podcast. 

976
01:07:46,630 --> 01:07:52,790
Maybe not this, maybe a podcast 
had been a guest on, but the 

977
01:07:52,990 --> 01:07:56,030
Suez Crisis was. 
Really. 

978
01:07:56,030 --> 01:08:00,910
The first time that the office 
of the Prime Minister had been 

979
01:08:00,910 --> 01:08:05,590
shown to be fallible. 
And it and it really, I suppose,

980
01:08:05,590 --> 01:08:11,550
was the first cracks in the 
deference that the public held 

981
01:08:11,550 --> 01:08:16,830
towards the establishment and 
the elites, the governing 

982
01:08:16,830 --> 01:08:19,229
classes. 
And. 

983
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,600
Mulligan and Laurie Stevens went
and missed the opportunity to 

984
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,880
give the establishment a kicking
over it. 

985
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:28,720
Exactly. 
And then, of course, you know, a

986
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,800
few years later you'd have the 
chat, Lady Chesley Trial and. 

987
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,560
Yeah, right. 
But thank you. 

988
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:39,479
Think in fact Sue is probably 
very much accelerated the whole 

989
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,160
decline in the idea of Empire. 
Yes. 

990
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,310
I said the British. 
Really. 

991
01:08:47,950 --> 01:08:51,830
At the time, they thought they 
had the rights to basically rule

992
01:08:51,830 --> 01:08:57,310
North Africa. 
And after all the efforts of 

993
01:08:58,229 --> 01:09:03,310
Spike and Harry in the desert, 
and a story I came across the 

994
01:09:03,310 --> 01:09:07,870
other day while I was delving 
deep into Encyclopedia Guenicus,

995
01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:11,029
Wallace Green, Wallace 
Greenslade played a part in the 

996
01:09:11,029 --> 01:09:15,270
North Africa campaign where. 
Was that? 

997
01:09:16,180 --> 01:09:21,899
It was was Operation Torch, I 
think was the original and 

998
01:09:21,939 --> 01:09:26,660
allied landings in North Africa.
It's about Algeria, Morocco. 

999
01:09:28,220 --> 01:09:33,020
At the start of the campaign, 
Wallace was in the in the Navy 

1000
01:09:33,020 --> 01:09:37,340
at the time, the voluntary 
reserve, and he was part of 

1001
01:09:37,340 --> 01:09:40,540
these landings and his ships 
sunk from under them. 

1002
01:09:41,140 --> 01:09:45,500
So the story goes, it's just 
that. 

1003
01:09:47,210 --> 01:09:50,290
I'm always pleased to find out 
little things about Greenslade. 

1004
01:09:50,290 --> 01:09:57,850
And that was one came from, you 
know who Derek Drouer was? 

1005
01:10:00,450 --> 01:10:00,930
Derek who? 
Drouer. 

1006
01:10:00,930 --> 01:10:06,610
DROWER. 
No, he was actually A and he was

1007
01:10:06,610 --> 01:10:09,650
a BBC announcer. 
He actually did three. 

1008
01:10:10,290 --> 01:10:12,930
He was the announcer in three 
shows in series one. 

1009
01:10:15,500 --> 01:10:18,300
He was, yeah, if you, if you dig
deep. 

1010
01:10:19,060 --> 01:10:21,780
But he, he didn't stay 
unannounced that he had 

1011
01:10:21,780 --> 01:10:26,220
ambitions to move into 
management, which he did. 

1012
01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:34,420
But he was a close friend of Wal
Greenslade and to the extent 

1013
01:10:34,420 --> 01:10:37,540
that Mrs. Greenslade was 
godmother to his daughter and 

1014
01:10:37,540 --> 01:10:42,300
such and that's it was from him 
that this story about the the 

1015
01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:47,460
sinking came. 
Oh, and I'm deeply embarrassed 

1016
01:10:47,460 --> 01:10:51,060
now because I should have at 
least been aware of the name. 

1017
01:10:52,340 --> 01:10:59,980
Yeah, I had seen the name 
because I had taken loads of 

1018
01:10:59,980 --> 01:11:05,660
data and put it into pages on 
the Gsps website with, you know,

1019
01:11:05,660 --> 01:11:08,260
limited details of every show 
and such. 

1020
01:11:08,260 --> 01:11:10,820
So I'd seen the name, it was in 
there, but. 

1021
01:11:11,700 --> 01:11:14,180
It was only and I was looking 
for something else the other day

1022
01:11:14,180 --> 01:11:21,420
I came across that OK, OK, I was
thinking about the trying to 

1023
01:11:21,420 --> 01:11:26,220
think of what other strongly 
politically satire, good shoes 

1024
01:11:26,220 --> 01:11:31,940
that are where I thought of the 
Tuscan salami scandal with. 

1025
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,800
With the the Burgeson McLean. 
Burgeson McLean. 

1026
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:43,280
And and the head of MI5 being 
depicted as Henry Krunder is 

1027
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:48,720
most confused. 
I'm trying to think who the head

1028
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,040
of MI5 was at the time. 
Was it Roger? 

1029
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:54,880
Was it Roger Hollis I? 
Can't remember but that that was

1030
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,920
the other one that that struck 
me as as pure political. 

1031
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,200
Well, not pure political satire,
but. 

1032
01:12:02,820 --> 01:12:05,900
I'm really taking part shorts at
the establishment. 

1033
01:12:06,300 --> 01:12:08,300
Yes. 
OK. 

1034
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:11,100
Well Duncan, listen thank you so
much for for joining me today to

1035
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:13,500
talk about this very rarely 
discussed Goon show. 

1036
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:17,380
But you know what a sort of 
history behind it, history in 

1037
01:12:17,380 --> 01:12:21,620
the making as it was being 
recorded and it's, it's 

1038
01:12:21,620 --> 01:12:24,780
certainly one that I would 
recommend to to people who 

1039
01:12:24,780 --> 01:12:27,820
haven't listened to it. 
It's got some great sequences 

1040
01:12:27,820 --> 01:12:32,210
Blue Bottle Neckles is. 
The, the standout and of course 

1041
01:12:32,530 --> 01:12:35,650
you have to listen to it, of 
course for the glorious 

1042
01:12:36,250 --> 01:12:41,930
Yukipakouin national anthem. 
So Duncan, thank you again and 

1043
01:12:42,290 --> 01:12:43,930
all the best. 
And we'll talk again sometime 

1044
01:12:43,930 --> 01:12:45,930
soon, Yeah. 
Pleasure to pile up. 

1045
01:12:45,930 --> 01:12:46,610
It's a pleasure.