I met Peter, Peter Sellers and I was in several of his and and he
was just the person I liked acting with most.
What do you remember about working with him?
Everything we didn't have to say, well, we did say a word
because he never stopped giggling and I'm a terrible
giggler, but he, he just, I don't know.
We seem to on that, if on nothing else, we thought
completely alike of of how to how to go about a character.
I mean, we seem to fit in. Whereas with Tony Hancock, you
see who I think was one of the funniest men for my mummy.
I mean, to begin with, he was a washout, which is funny in
itself. I think it's sad too.
But but you see, the minute the thing was in the bag, Tony
disappeared into his caravan. He there was no connection at
all between you. Whereas Peter, I mean like
Missus Kite or anybody, we were always together.
We lunched together and we sort of carried the kite picture
forward, which you know, where we would live and how and this
and this which helped when we came to actually do the thing.
And of course, that brought him right to the forefront.
The. Hello and welcome to Goon Pod,
where we nearly always have a second vegetable.
My name is Tyler Adams and this week I am joined by returning
guest Donna Reese. Hello Tyler, thank you so much
for having me back. I'm very honoured.
Oh, my pleasure, my pleasure. I think the last, well, the last
time that we spoke was we were talking about Bedazzled for for
Goon Pod Film Club, yes, which which is out there and available
for anybody who wants to sign up for a free seven day trial to
have a listen to us talk about Bedazzled.
Most recently, we've been talking about not you and I, but
me and my guest Mark Cousins were talking about the film
school for Scoundrels. Yeah, I know that.
Yeah, yeah. Have you watched?
Have you watched that recently? I haven't seen it recently but I
I do know about it. Is is that the one with the with
the hard cheese? Hard cheese, yes.
They're they're playing tennis. And Ian Carmichael's getting
roundly pasted by Terry Thomas, and he keeps going.
Hard cheese. Hard cheese, yes.
I I actually got my dad a mug with hard cheese written on it
because he loved that film. Yeah, he loved Terry Thomas.
OK, so you've got Terry Thomas, Ian Carmichael, you've got, I've
got Alistair SIM, of course, Alistair SIM, Jeanette Scott,
who briefly, briefly had a fling with Peter Sellers in the Oh my.
God. 60s right? She's the daughter of Thora
Hood. Thora Hood.
Yeah, and she said that she she was convinced that the only
reason that Peter Sellers got together with her was because he
wanted access to Thora. I don't mean in AI don't mean in
a in a sexual way, but I mean Isla.
I mean, what I meant was he, he absolutely loved listening to
Thora's stories and things. Oh, right on the set of Went the
Day. Well, like macheteing Nazi.
Absolutely. And who else was in that film?
Oh, there was someone else in that film school for scoundrels
right at the end. Little cameo.
Only someone called Irene Handel of.
Course. Oh my goodness.
Yeah. She often pops up at the end of
films. This is like the wrong box and
things like that, doesn't she? Yes, and we and I have mentioned
both Peter Sellers and Irene Handle in the same breath
virtually and how appropriate and this this is really
tortured. This isn't it.
How appropriate for what we have gathered together to talk about
today. We're going to talk about Peter
Sellers and Irene Handle and and, and some of the work that
they did together and and it's they had a really sort of
special relationship. It's a very platonic
relationship on a stress. But they had a they were best
buds pretty much. Weren't they the kids?
The kids would say BFFS I guess. It's very unusual in a way
because she's quite a bit older than him.
She's about 2425 years older than him was and but more nearer
his mother's age than his age. But they got on like a house on
fire and they were very much compatible in their acting
styles, weren't they? Yeah.
And well, I think she was OK. She was quite a bit older than
she was old to have to be his mother.
Let's face it. Yeah.
And I just think there was something about him that she
latched onto. And and we'll, we'll, we'll come
to that. We'll we'll talk about that in
more detail. But but OK, obviously we on this
on this podcast every week we talk about Peter Sellers in in
excruciating detail. So we don't need to dwell on him
too much at this stage in terms of his back story.
But Irene handle will will again, most people listen to
this who know who she is. But just in case, Donna, how
would you, how would you? Could you describe her in a sort
of a pithy couple of sentences? Do you think well.
I suppose she's like the archetypal sort of working class
duck. You know, she was, she sort of
cornered the market in that sort of archetype, didn't she?
Very well. Yeah.
She's like somebody's mum or someone's nan or aunt.
Somebody's mum or or or a domestic servant, or a char lady
or or a landlady. Landlady.
Yeah. Particularly notably in the The
Rebel with Tony Handgill. Yeah.
Mrs. Cravat. Yeah.
And, and she had this and although, OK, her voice would be
described, I guess, as shabby, genteel.
Yeah, sometimes she kind of, yeah.
She had that kind of cockney accent that she would do and it
wasn't her natural accent, but sometimes she would also try and
put on the the slightly more refined voice.
And I always think Kathy Burke must have been influenced by
Irene Handel because particularly Waynetta Slob does
that when the social worker comes round.
Do you know what I mean? It's.
Like a cup of tea, like. That sort of voice.
Yes, if if you come round to see about Spagulica, it's spelled it
in. Frog, Mella, or.
Frog Mella wasn't spadulica. Yes, Spadulica and Keanu.
Keanu. Slob.
Yeah, yeah, I I just think there, there's definitely an
influence there. Oh, absolutely.
And I think also Julie Walters to a lesser extent, yes.
When you watch as seen on TV, some of the sketches, you know,
they got the bra strap slightly hanging down and these little
details that Irene would do, I think, I wonder if she's picked
that up from Irene had. I guess she kind of almost
colored the market in playing those sort of old dames if you
like. But to a degree, Beryl Reed was,
was, was one of those and Dora Bryan and and and Hilda Baker,
of course, although Hilda Baker was a bit, a bit a few rungs
lower down the glass ladder, I think actually.
Yeah, or Peggy Mount. You know, which is more the
battle axe. And I think Irene Handel was
sort of more nuanced than that. You know, can you remember the
first time your first memory of Irene Handel at all?
Yeah, I was thinking this the other day and I was thinking it
must have been, I was trying to think, oh, it must have been an
old film like, you know, one of the Sellers films possibly on
telly. But really the one that really
sticks out is the recordings like Shadows on the Grass with
Peter Sellers, because I heard those records a lot when I was
quite young. And the critics?
Newton Tweedsdale What effect did this film have on you?
Well, may I say it once that I found it in the very, very time?
Well, I didn't pretend to be an ardent cinema girl, but I did.
And they thought that Wazenkov in his direction was far too to
protect the young, the electric images of his own emotional
language, instead of allowing the intrinsic concepts of the
film to to speak for themselves. I.
Think you're reading that? I don't think I am, because have
you ever paused in a tube station, for example, and seen a
hoarding all torn down and the girl's face, you know, with all
moustaches on it and what it was a sense great feeling all torn
down when I felt so lonely, so terribly lonely.
This is what I preferred, some coffee in his three eyes and
find when he gave us the biographical trilogy on Lenin
that was really like him. Is that songs for swinging
sellers or is that the best of sellers?
That songs for swingers. That was a second LP.
Yep. Second one, yeah, that one got
played a lot at home. My dad played that a lot.
So I mean the critics is like, it's like it, it, it hasn't
really aged, does it? It's like one of those late like
discussion. Programs and you wouldn't know
that's. Exactly the same if you've.
Grown up watching Irene Handel in films and television.
And you heard that. Yeah.
The critic. Sort of the critics, I should
say. You wouldn't necessarily know.
Well, you wouldn't know it was her, would you?
Because she's. No, no.
She's a very clipped accent and it's.
Very posh in that, isn't she? She plays.
She's. Very versatile, really.
Faith Bradshaw. Faith.
Bradshaw. Bradshaw, Yeah.
Well, we're going to talk about that.
I can definitely tell you that my first memory of Irene Handle
was was Metal Mickey. Metal Mickey.
My God. The Mickey Dolan's project.
Yeah. And I love that.
I'm so I, I can't remember what year it would have been.
I know, I know. It started, I think it started
on LWT in this country around 8081, maybe something like that.
And I'm not sure when we got it in down in New Zealand, possibly
a year later or something. So I would have been about 7-8
maybe. And it was on a Saturday night
and I absolutely adored it. And I, I love Mickey, of course.
And I probably loved all the, all the kids that were in it as
well. And I, I don't remember what I
thought of Irene handles character because she played
the, the granny, believe it or not, and playing against type
there. And I don't remember how, but,
but I've, I've watched bits of it over the years, you know, as
a, as an adult. And one thing I picked up was
how bloody annoying the kid actors are in it really, really
playing it up. You know what I mean?
The point is, I, I watched, I watched a full episode of Metal
Mickey in preparation for this just last night.
OK. And I was not blown away.
That's the wrong word. Underwhelmed.
That's the right word. I was underwhelmed.
It it hasn't aged well. It hasn't aged well.
I can. Imagine but.
But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you who has aged well.
I really handle in that. She what?
A pro. Absolutely she elevates it.
She absolutely elevates it. She didn't have a lot to do.
It was an episode in which Metal Mickey became a pop star and
there was like Mickey Mania and you know what I mean?
And at the end of the episode, you've got the whole family,
including, I really handle boogying to to Mickey's hip hop
tune. Come here I.
Know my little. It's lovely to see you back.
But don't you? Ever do that?
That was better than a slap in the face with a white fish.
Oh Mickey. Oh, I'm glad you're back.
Buggy, buggy. Buggy, buggy, buggy buggy.
Buggy. All right, all right, that's
enough. Stop it.
Stop it.
Mickey, you may be back, but you're not getting me jumping
for joy. I'm not going to.
Boogie. I'm not going to boogie.
Not quite, not quite, but yeah, she was she.
My first memory of her, as I say, was Mitchell Mickey.
But obviously as I then started watching older British films and
I got into the goons and I started watching old Peter
Sellers films particularly I kept seeing her and I kept, oh,
it's that woman from Metal Mickey.
It's it's that, oh, aren't she great?
And and she really was a national treasure, wasn't she?
Completely, I think, yeah, she was really loved.
I mean, people would often come up to her in the street saying
you remind me of my nan or you remind me of my aunt.
So she was like the sort of nation's grandma in a way,
wasn't she? She was.
But. Even though she never got
married or had kids herself or anything, you know, she just had
her Chihuahuas, didn't she? Well, in in school for
scoundrels, she has one of her Chihuahuas clutched to her
bosom. Yes, yeah, there's not there's.
Not much out there in terms of biographical detail about I
really handle, but I I did wonder about the fact that she
never married and I wondered about that.
And I think a lot of it came down to the fact that she she
didn't really become an actress until quite late.
She was about 3839 when she. Yeah, I think she was 36 and I
think she was about 35 when she trained at the Embassy School of
Acting in Swiss Cottage, which is my strange connection with
her is I went to the Central School of Speech and Drama, or
the Central School of Screech and Trauma, as we call it.
And it used to be based at the Royal Albert Hall and then it
moved to the Embassy Theatre and that's where it is to this day.
And Irene would have trodden the same boards I did when I was a
student. God.
So she was there for about a year, and she was quite a very
late starter. Yeah, she was about 35 and then
got a role in the West End and stole the show, unsurprisingly.
Well it I think it was mainly the the fact she left it so late
was because she was looking after her elderly father.
Until, until it died. Her mother died quite young, at
the age of about 40. So she stayed home and looked
after her dad. They were quite comfortably off,
weren't they, as a family? He was a stockbroker or and they
had servants. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So obviously young artistic Irene was, she loved hanging
around the the servants so much, you know, they almost had to
shoo her away at times. But all those characters she was
absorbing and used them later on in life.
We watched a 30 minute interview with Irene Handel, didn't we?
Called Comic Roots, which was filmed in the early 80s and it
was, it was just a sort of a retrospective about her career.
And it's very useful for filling in a lot of blanks if you like.
And, and I think, and I watched it a couple of weeks ago, you
only watched it today. But I think she's she said
something along the lines of people always assume that she's
cockney, whereas her proper speaking voice is quite is quite
refined, isn't it? Yeah, she is quite, Yeah, very
middle class, posh, born in Maida Vale, grew up in that part
of London, not not in the East End of London or anything like
that. She was quite comfortably off
and shows what a great actress she was, that she fooled a lot
of people and they, she was very convincing.
Even though her performances seem quite large, they're rooted
in reality, aren't they? Yeah, absolutely.
Particularly, have you seen her in Heavens Above?
Yes, yes. I haven't seen that in a while,
but I have seen that film. Yeah, she's quite.
A bit. She's a bit rougher around the
edges than she normally is. Good.
Afternoon. What's going on?
What do you want? I'm the new vicar.
I'll just come round to introduce myself.
Well, you. From the council too then,
ma'am. Ma'am, will you shut?
Up. No, I've.
Just come to early Trinity. You're in my palace, you see?
And what do you want then? Well, I'll.
Just go round and say hello, see if there's anything you wanted,
anything I could do for oh. Let's see.
Well, you come at the right time.
You have Vicar do. You mind if?
I sit down only I'm still a casualty.
You see, I only get 18 bub a week from the Army.
Not a very great deal, is it? I'm not.
Complaining win. Go and get the.
Vicar a nice cup of tea win. While you're making it pop baby
for me, will you? Sydney, go and get the.
Vicar, a chair to sit on. Oh, don't you worry about me.
I'll sit here. You take that fag out of your
face, that's all that is is. She more about got a hard edge
to her, yeah. Yeah.
That's, that's fair. Yeah.
Mind you, in two way stretch she's got half her teeth are
missing. That's quite rough as well,
isn't it? And I love.
The way she speaks in that, it's like she's sort of talking like
that, ain't she? Because she's got a lot of her
teeth are gone. She.
She obviously kind of gravitated or, or graviated as she would
say. She gravitated into playing
these. She was, she was never A star.
She was never topping the bill. She was, you know, she never
carried a film on her own. She was.
She was always one of the supporting cast, often stole the
show if you like. But yeah, she definitely did.
But she. Always tended to she was a
character actress, wasn't she? And, and, and she, she said in
an interview that she gave in the early 80s, so by that time
she would have been in her 80s, I think.
And she, she said that she hated being old, right.
She said, she said it's absolutely foul.
And she regretted that she didn't get into acting earlier
when, as she described it, she said, she said she was a pretty
girl when she was younger. And, and she felt that if she
got into acting early when she was prettier, her career would
have been a lot different. She'd have got the more romantic
roles, whereas because she didn't start acting really until
she was in her late 30s into her early 40s that she was giving,
she was giving the mum roles and the child lady roles and the and
the like, but. Her career probably lasted
longer because of that, because when you're young and pretty,
that fades and then, you know, another load of actresses come
out of drama school that are younger than prettier than you.
And and it prolonged her career probably going down that role.
I mean, she certainly cornered the market in that sort of type
of East End lady landlord types. And yeah, you're right, you're
right. Long to career?
Maybe not. So much these days, but
certainly back in the day, if you were a glamorous film star,
very often your career would stall after a certain number of
years. Oh, yeah, people like more
recent people like Helen Mirren and and the like have have, you
know, bucked that trend, of course.
But. But I'm just trying to think
someone around Irene Handel's period who?
I mean, you've got someone like Diana Doors who was obviously
the glamour puss in the 50s, and then she carried on having a
decent career up until, yeah, I mean.
She was fantastic in Amazing Mr. Blunden.
Oh, as the what? Was she the cook?
Yeah, she was. The yeah, she was like, like the
the really nasty housekeeper. Wasn't she trying to marry her
daughter off to? Oh, to to Villiers.
James Villiers, Yeah. James Villiers.
Yeah, that's right. And she was fantastic in that.
She's just like, no vanity at all.
Just make me look as gross as you can.
Yes. And of course, that was Lionel
Jeffries, wasn't it? It was.
It was Lionel Jeffries directed and who played her husband.
Can you remember? David Lodge.
He was in Cockle Show Heroes. Yeah, Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. So.
This is often like particularly with Sellers, isn't there?
There's a sort of coterie there's it's almost like a
repertory company he has around him.
Well, like Mario Fabrizzi, David Lodge, Graham Stark, Irene
Handel. She was very much part of that
company of actors that he he was comfortable with, familiar with,
and they got him but by. The way, yeah, I'll just come
back to that in a second. One of the children in Amazing
Mr. Blunden that Dinah doors her character terrorised, I think
it's fair to say, was the future Mrs. Peter Sellers.
Lynn, Frederick. Yeah, see how it's all linked is
crazy, isn't it? But yeah, you're right.
She she was kind of almost in that sellers Rep company.
So she's she's in as far as I'm and I and I did check and double
check and triple check. She she appeared in five films.
I won't say 5 films with Peter Sellers because I include the
wrong box, which is kind of it's it's not a Peter Sellers film as
such. He's it's, it's an ensemble
piece, isn't it? And she's she's not in any
scenes with Sellers, but so but I think.
Peter does steal that film. Oh.
Doesn't he underneath? Everybody's nose.
He is so good as Doctor Pratt, isn't he?
I love it when he plots the ink with the kitten because that was
just completely improvised, wasn't it it?
Was it was. And you've got everyone in that
film. We've got Cook and more, of
course. Tony Hancock, Yeah.
Michael Caine. Nanette Newman.
Michael Caine. Michael Caine, John Mills and
yeah, Ralph. Richardson.
We could just name names, couldn't we?
For the rest of them, OK. On all night.
She was in, I think the first film that she was in the Peter
Sellers film that she was in or a film with Peter Sellers was
Carlton Brown of the FFO as Mrs. Carter.
Now, I haven't watched that for a number of years because it's a
bit of a chore that one. I'm not that keen on that film
to be honest. So I have seen it, but not for a
while. I, I had the, the good intention
of watching it ahead of this. And you know how you put things
off and put things off and put things off.
And in the end I didn't, I thought, now let's just focus
on, let's just focus on the three or more specifically the 2
Sellers films that she's in that are right up there.
OK, because yes, she's in heavens above, as I said before
in 63, but in 1959 she is Missus Kite married to Peter Sellers.
Mr. Kite in I'm All right Jack. And then the year later she is
in two way stretch as Missus Price.
Yeah. Bernard Crippen's mum.
Bernard Crippen's mum, yeah, with a.
Mouth like a ripped out fireplace.
So it's I love the. Lack of vanity.
It's great. I I really love it when it's
particularly actresses go there and they don't mind being
looking a bit shabby or a bit grotesque.
Yeah, she's a bit, she's a bit more in I'm a right Jack.
She's she's very much sort of a a proud working class matriarch,
isn't she? Yeah, you remember that scene
when Margaret Rutherford arrives?
Oh yeah, and sit down, you know, Yes.
Yes, whereas she's she's sort of downgrades that character for
two way stretch missus price is is is part of the well, she's
not she's not a criminal, but she's a member of the criminal
class really, isn't she? So funny.
That scene when she's she's visiting Bernie Cribbins in
prison. It just kills me every time.
It's so funny. She is hilarious.
I think all the best actors always seem to bring something a
little bit extra that's not in the script.
And she is so funny in her delivery.
And of course with the missing teeth and her voice and
everything and being so ashamed, you know you've never once tried
to escape. I can't understand you at all.
Me and your daddy's always trying to bring you upright but
I don't know. The family owner don't seem to
mean nothing to you. Anyone don't?
Think you love it doing time? Three years you've been in here
now and never once have you even tried to escape.
And don't believe your head against them was you marked
yourself for love. Your mom will.
Be out anyway soon. Anyway, soon that's not quite
the point. Look at your daddy's record 4
times over the wall at the mall alone and Auntie Emmy's bad leg
never prevented her from shinning down the drying pulp.
And although I did it. Well, I'll try and do better
next time I'm on his job. Well, yeah, it's.
How you better? I should think so.
Shall be enthusiasm. Yeah, with.
All the. Files drop out of her bag.
Have you not seen a home perm kit before that?
Isn't it crazy because Sellers filmed them both in the same
year? Wow, yes he did.
Early 59 he filmed I'm All right Jack and then I think I'm right
in saying possibly the film after this was two way straights
that he filmed. I'm not sure, but anyway, let's
just say within the same 12 month period, OK and he's gone
he's gone from convincingly playing the husband of already
handle to playing someone who's her could her son's age.
Basically yeah, he's. Got.
Yeah, really. Convincing with both, yeah.
I mean, it's amazing. It's absolutely miraculous that
how he just. It's not over the top.
His makeup in I'm alright Jackie's, so he's just aged up a
little bit and he they just look like the same age, him and Irene
Handel and they obviously did a lot of discussions about their
relationship. It was almost like not exactly
method acting but apparently they there was a lot of
discussion about their married life and stuff and I love their
wedding photograph on them. Mantelpiece is great.
It makes me laugh, but. She yeah, you say about not
method like, but doing a lot of preparation.
The two of them sitting sit. Down and just.
Scoping out, creating a back story for the characters almost,
I suppose, yeah. And bring that brings so much
sort of richness to the characters.
It helps the actors bring so many sort of levels and and
makes it much more interesting. Yeah.
She said in an interview in 1976 she was asked about working with
sellers. And she said I had to.
When I read this, I had to read it twice to try and make sure I
wasn't, you know, inferring anything else.
She said she was talking about Sellers.
She said without measuring his length off the floor and and
going on method, he zips, he zips himself into a character in
the same way as I do. Right.
And he did. And she said, and he does not
disappear after the tape, meaning after the, you know,
after the take, I suppose. Yeah.
As Tony Hancock used to do.
Poor dear, but that's it. But sellers will talk and take
suggestions, which is strange for a man of His Eminence.
Yeah. He.
Obviously respected her greatly to work with her in that way.
Sellers must have really adored working with her because they
were very much In Sync with each other.
And yeah, there was a thing, you know, she, she was Mrs. Cravat
in The Rebel and she really admired Tony Hancock as a
comedian, but he, he didn't really want to know.
I think that's the difference between actors and comics.
I think comedians can be quite the sort of lone wolves.
They're not really collaborators.
They're used to taking all the glory for themselves, you know,
whereas actors, it is more like a family and it's a, you know,
we work together, you know, we enhance each other's
performances. And I don't think Tony Hancock
had that sort of mentality. So he would shoot the scene and
then go off to his dressing room.
He didn't really socialise or want to be pally with any of his
fellow actors in a way, whereas Peter did.
And also the recorded stuff. I mean, she wrote Shadows on the
Grass, didn't she? Yes, and that.
Generosity of spirit to share that with somebody you admire
and let her. Because it's not even that
funny. It's like a slice of life kind
of observation, isn't it? More than a skit, but.
The the different thing, they have a key thing, of course,
about that sketch. So it's it's as we said before,
it's it's on songs for Swinging sellers, which was his second LP
and was a huge best seller coming out in 59, of course,
produced by George Martin. And and I'm going to do a a name
job here. Clang.
Mike McCartney himself told me that he and Paul used to play
songs for swinging sellers over and over and over again when
they were growing. But no.
But the point I'm making is yes, you've got this 6 minute sketch,
Shadows on the Grass, as you say, written by Ari Handel and
Sellers is in it playing a Frenchman, but he's very much
second fiddle. He's.
Second fiddle. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah. She dominates it, really.
And it's quite flirty, isn't it, it?
Is and she doesn't she take him? Back to her hotel room at the
end or something. Yeah, so.
She's playing this, you know, wealthy widow.
Yeah. Who's who's living in a in a in
a hotel. But Sellers for some reason is
playing a Frenchman. You kind of wonder whether he is
actually a Frenchman or if it's just there's some dirty old man
pretending to be a Frenchman to kind of try and you know what I
mean? Yeah, maybe.
Who knows? It's weird, isn't it?
Because they are, you know, as you said, he's she's old enough
to be his mum. In reality, yes.
And they're. Playing out this scene together.
She told an Australian journalist that she originally
wrote The Shadows on the Grass as a more as it for a television
sketch. Right.
And and it was, and it was a lot more sinister.
And she wrote it for herself, but also for Dennis Price.
All right. And she, she said, yeah, So she
said, I really wrote it for myself and Dennis Price.
That's why I called it Shadows on the Grass, because I wanted
his shadow travelling over the grass as he feeds the birds to
swallow my shadow. And as it was written, it wasn't
all comedy. One got the feeling he was going
to murder her or something because the silly geezer told
everything about her money. It's Oh my God.
Yeah, that's really. Intriguing, isn't it?
Yep, that it. It could have been, Yeah, like
what's that guy that used to date date old ladies and the
acid bath murderer? Oh, Hague.
Yeah, Hague. Maybe it's that sort of thing
then that's. True.
If you think about the shadows of the girls that we know from
the LP, where you've got. It's almost like she picks him
up in the in the part, doesn't she?
Her character. Yeah, Yeah, she's and.
And then. But he's this supposed Frenchman
and then they they end up going back to her hotel.
You don't know what happens after that, do you?
She's made it clear that she's got a few Bob.
Yeah. He's latched onto her.
Yeah, like a. Laser in the park It's.
Almost like it's almost like it's almost, and I know, look,
we're over analysing this. It's it's a comedy sketch from
1959. But it's almost, it's almost
like he's latched onto her too easily picked.
Up on her vulnerabilities. Yeah.
Money. Yeah, I'm.
Afraid I'm a bit of a naughty girl like that.
I love to lay in my Betty bar dreaming my dreams.
I wish that I could share your dreams with you now.
That I did not hear. That I have decided completely
to ignore. You're not nice to know, you
know? I am so full of enthusiasm to
have your friendship, to receive great pleasure from knowing you,
that I said a stupid thing like that.
Forgive me, I'm so very sorry. Oh well.
You're forgiven now. I was just going to ask you back
to Ding Dings. When they well, I would.
Love to come please ask me they keep.
A smashing table at the Royals and you know, we nearly always
have a second vegetable and always croutons with a soup.
And if you ever feel out having half a bottle of Borgiale, they
practically fall over themselves backwards bringing it in for
you. I always say as long as there's
enough to see me out, what happens afterwards?
It's sand fair again. They revisited that, didn't
they? Later in 17, 9?
It's that whispering. Giant whispering.
Giant sketch, yeah. It's very similar, but it's
there's a sort of air of sadness around that I feel when I listen
to it because it's almost like Sellers trying to recapture it's
kind of joy, the happiness he probably felt, yes, back then in
the 50s. Well, he was.
He was. He was by this point, by that
point in his life, he only really had a year or so to live,
if that. And he was parking back to the
happier days. So he was wanting to get back
with the goons. He was talking even about doing
some more goon show material with the goons.
And he was, well, he was due to meet them for a meal that the,
the day he died. That's right.
Yeah. He, he was, he was towards the
end of his life, he was revisiting old homes and things
like that, you know? Yeah.
And, well, he'd. Take his first wife out,
wouldn't he call her up and say, oh, can we go round?
Right, Yes, he's Finchley, can we go round Highgate?
He was so nostalgic for the past.
Absolutely. And she'd sort of.
Go around with him because his mother obviously was no longer
alive and he, like, you know, in that arena documentary, sort of
treated his first wife like his mother.
I'm not, I don't want to be a COD psychiatrist here or
anything but or whatever you want to call it quack.
But did he perhaps? And of course, Peg was alive
when he I was working with Irene Handel.
But you wonder, wonder if there was any, if she reminded him a
little bit of his. Mother maybe that's sort of, you
know, yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe it's just very comfortable with
her because maybe in a way she was this similar age to his mum
because they were ridiculously close.
Isn't it like it was like toxic close mother as we know maybe
she was Irene Handel was like a a nice mother figure, you know a
more benign 1 and obviously not controlling.
I also get. The feeling that she wouldn't
take any nonsense, she would give as good as she got from
him. Yeah.
They just seem like, when they're working together, very
much equals. And apparently I watched an
interview with Liz Fraser and Irene Handle was very much a
practical joker on set. She would do sort of silly jokes
and break the tension or whatever.
But obviously in those days, Peter Sellers was behaving
himself and learning his craft. And you know, she's proper old
pro, so he probably learnt a lot from her watching her too.
He probably. Did Yeah, I want to talk about
the Whispering Giant a little bit later, but while we're on
Shadows on the Grass, it was, it was originally 12 minutes long,
that sketch. And yeah, George Martin and the
engineer Stuart Elton edited it down.
So it's interesting. I wonder what was what was taken
out. Maybe there was, I mean, maybe
the sound of him murdering her in her hotel room, who knows?
A blood. Curdling screams.
Or maybe this isn't appropriate, Peter, for this album at this
juncture in your career, You know, slashing her throat.
Well, you. Say that, but think about what
the album cover depicts. It's someone.
Oh, that's. True actually.
And and Auntie Rotter as well, yes.
That's right. Yeah, I.
Listened to that far too young Tyler.
It's like too Auntie Rotter. I think that's what warped my.
Brain, do you know what I grew up I, I probably listened to
this album when I was for the first time when I was no younger
than 1415, right when I got into the goons and I got into sellers
and started buying up sellers and listening to sellers stuff,
right? So I, I wouldn't have heard
Auntie Rotter till I was that age.
But my, my earliest memory of my Auntie Shirley, my mum's sister,
who's still with us by the way, was that she was known in the
family as Auntie Rotter, right? A A name bestowed upon her by my
father, who, Oh my God, didn't. Particularly.
Get on with her. Let's face it, did she?
Have an orphanage in the Bulls. Bon Roy.
Hello, children. Yeah, my dad.
My dad used to play this when I was about 5 or 6.
But yeah, it was it was completely nuts.
Yeah. And the really seedy piano
player. Yes.
Oh, and the the and the seedy voice that Sellers puts on for
that. Yeah, is that?
Uncle Uncle Rotter inappropriate in the.
List of years, doesn't he? But I see.
I never knew, I never associated that with with Peter Sellers,
that nickname. I just knew her as a child.
That was what we called her in the Fed, not to a face.
We didn't call her anti rotter to a face.
Good God. I think that would invite.
Yeah. You get a hatchet in your back
A. Tanned ass, as my dad would say,
but but no so much of my childhood.
I grew up with these references to the goons or sellers or
whatever from my dad, you know? Yeah.
Oh, same here. My dad was yeah.
Had all the goon show on vinyl. Play them loads as you know.
Well, my dad. Didn't my dad didn't have them
on vinyl, but he would quote lines from Gucci, LP's and that
that he'd listen to when he was young man, you know?
Also Shadows on the Grass. She talks about her late husband
Tofnell, and she said he his nickname for her was Squidgy.
Yeah. Squidgy.
Yeah. No.
Was it blue? He liked me wearing blue.
Wasn't it blue? Toast.
The colour was blue toast. Colour was described as.
Blue toast that wasn't wasn't, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't
didn't Prince Charles call Camilla squidgy God?
Yeah, he was a massive fan of the goons.
Yeah. There you go, I've blown.
I've blown it wide open. You have we need some sort of
white board here with like lines going off everywhere push.
Pins and things, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I wouldn't be
surprised if that was the connection.
God. And they had Nick, Burt and
Gladys or something, the nicknames for each other.
And. Brenda and Oh, I can't remember.
Prince Charles, I'm not going to.
No, I'm not going to go there. He he, you're not.
Going to go there. We don't need we.
I've just had me dinner. I don't need to go there.
Yes. Do you know what as well, in
July 1960, Peter Sellers and Irene Handel actually performed
Shadows on the Grass on stage at the London Palladium.
Wow. They had an event called the
Night of 100 Stars. Right, I've heard of that, but I
didn't know they appeared on that.
Yeah, they. So they they appeared and
performed the I mean, it doesn't, there's no recording of
it or anything. But also on the bill, Laurence,
Olivia, Cliff, Richard, Russ Conway, Miriam Carlin, who'd
worked with Sellers as well. Apparently Sellers also did a
sketch, or at least impersonated Noël Coward for a for a sketch
or a song, right? And of course, Irene.
Handel first film role, I think it was her first role was in in
Brief Encounter. Right.
Yes, she's. She's she plays the Wurlitz in
the cinema. She comes out of the ground.
The scene in that that's obviously written by Noël
Coward, Of course it. Is yes, so we can need.
The whiteboard. Others the connections are just
yeah and also. George Martin with the whole
producing those sketches on record.
There's also a Beatles connection, isn't there?
Because she was in Wonderwall, She.
You're well ahead of me there. That was when I was going to
throw that fact. Oh.
OK, sorry Scatter. That into the conversation but
but absolutely cut that. Out and oh God, no, they call
the glory. No, no.
Later, I've never seen Wonderwall, but no, I've seen.
Bits of it. I gather it's not very good,
yeah. It's yeah, proper kind of
swinging 60s in not in not very good way.
Yeah, yeah. I didn't actually copy out or
take a copy of the the newspaper article that told me about this
night of 100 stars, but I'm sure, I'm sure that it mentioned
that Dora Dora Brian did a song and it was and it was dancing on
the ceiling. And I'm thinking, you know what
the. Lionel Richie song Can't it Be
There? Must have been an earlier song
called Dancing on the Ceiling again.
A time machine or something? Maybe the listeners can help me
out with that. So.
So yeah, so they performed it in 1960, but hold on to your hat,
right? A year earlier, June 1959.
I'm not even sure if that predates the I think it actually
predates the LP coming out. But June 1959 on Sunday night at
the Palladium on television, Peter Sellers, Irene Handel and
Harold Behrens perform a sketch. OK, and it doesn't actually
indicate that it was Shadows on the Grass, so it may well have
not been, but I'm just wondering whether it was.
But then what Harold Baron's You couldn't have a third character,
could you? I suppose.
No, or he played the Shadow. Or perhaps he played the ghost
of Toughenal, her late husband. Oh.
Yeah. So what?
The point I'm making is that, you know, the two of them had
appeared on, on television, on stage together, performing
together. So it's not just the films, it's
not just the LP's, but it's also, you know, live, live stage
performances and television. There's a lot.
Together then yeah, definitely they they obviously, you know,
really trusted each other and had that.
Obviously we know about the sort of rapport they had.
That's that's really interesting to know they did that.
I knew about this, that Laurence Olivier had appeared and all
this, but I had no idea they they were on the bill as well.
That's really interesting and. The the critics, the other
sketch that that she's in on the LP, she's she's apparently doing
a parody of of Dyllis Powell and I don't really know Dyllis
Powell. I've heard the name, but I
couldn't, yeah. Yeah, they're talking about an
art exhibition. They talk about a film.
They've all seen the wrong film. That's right, isn't it?
And using this this sort of flowery, excessive,
indecipherable jargon. Yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I know, I know.
It's a book, not a film. We got it wrong.
Nobody's perfect, not even, not
look, not even me. But anyway, on with the show.
So now the book that we've all been reading is the new novel
The Seeds of Distress by Luigi Salami, published by Birdley
Hamilton at 15 shillings. Jay Wallace Larwood Well.
I've been reading Harmonium in the Dust Bay, Eustis Grimes, OH.
I was. To read tomorrow was new
yesterday. You know the translation from
the Japanese by Lafar? I ever said.
That nobody told me to read anything at all.
The point of talking about it seems to be a bit damn stupid, I
must say. Now correct me here Parkinson
when he's interviewed by Parkinson and he's doing the
Warrington the. Minions.
Yeah, the play is called that, isn't it?
Tomorrow's new play Say yes. I think it was yeah, the.
Play that he's in, I Met the Alhambra, you know, Tomorrow's
new yesterday, isn't it? Yeah.
So it's, it's something he used again and again.
He goes into the pub and he says to the landlord, he said good
morning, landlord. My name is Warrington Minge.
I am appearing in the new play at the Hippodrome, Tomorrow's
New Yesterday, and I was wondering if you could oblige
me. I'll have a large R.E.M. in
Martin, please, by cashing this small check.
But the whole critics thing, I mean, it's, it's timeless, that
whole, you know, pretentious cultural Chad.
It actually, I used to watch. It's so funny.
I used to watch in the late 90s. Late review was it with Mark
Lawson and yeah. Yeah, and.
Bloody God awful Tony Parsons and bloody worse Allison person.
But Tom Poland used to fascinate me.
Christ, he no, he fascinated me because every he would read
Joycean influences into every single thing, you know, he'd be
talking about. I don't know.
Yeah. The the Power Rangers movie.
I can see the the hand of James Joyce at work here, you know?
Yes. I'd.
Like to meet Tom Poland, I would not like to meet Tony Powersons,
I would not be responsible for my actions and.
Definitely not Allison Pearson neither gloss over her but but
the the bit that really get kills me is the the mustache
drawn on the post and he gets really animated and emotional
about this poster. Have you ever, for example,
stood in a tube station and seen a poster with a mustache?
It's. Brilliant.
It's so good. It just it just cracks me up
every time. It's so funny.
It's. And it's it's like you say, it's
timeless. The show is on the grass.
It's timeless. There's there's a few sketches
on the album that are dated, you know, skiffle song and things
like that. Yeah, the.
Rock'n'roll one. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, going back to Irene Handel, she loved Rock'n'roll,
didn't she? She was president of the
Lewisham branch of the Elvis Presley Fan Club.
Can't believe that. She was she was a purist in a
way because she only liked pre army Elvis and she loved
rock'n'roll. She genuinely loved it.
As we know, a lot of comedy people are really either
musicians are really into music and it is like great comedy is
like music. And you have that connection
with Peter and Irene as well, maybe that they're very, you
know, they love music and him being a drummer and all of that
stuff and. That's.
A big part of of comedy, it's the rhythm, isn't it?
And she loved rock'n'roll. She loved Elvis.
She was quite, yeah, she was into Rock'n'roll.
She also bear in mind she was what, born in 1901, I think
that's. Right.
Yeah. So by the late 60s, early 70s,
when the so-called permissive society was happening, she was
all for it? Yeah, actually, yeah, Although
she admitted she was too old to to join in.
She actually said I, I she she said.
I don't think pornography corrupts.
I quite like it. Oh, did.
She say that the. Mind boggles, yeah.
She was in a few kind of dodgy films in the 70s, wasn't she?
She was in my friend Gary's favorite film of all time, Come
Come Play with Me, which he'll hate me saying that I think it's
Mary Millington. Yes, she had a, she had a
pornography. Shop in Newbury in South London
and she quite often would be topless behind the counter and
stuff. Really.
Yeah, in.
In in sedate Newbury of all places.
Beside me I. Read about that because my
partner's parents lived in Norbury for time and I said did
you know that Mary Millington had a pawn shop in Norbury?
Did your partner's father used to?
Frequently. Oh no, he no, he wouldn't have
done. But he he's Irish.
He wouldn't have been around in that part of London back back in
the day in the 70s. But no.
But yeah, I just, I just assume, you know, she just was like
somebody that wanted just keep working and wasn't particularly
moral about it or judgmental and just thought I need to pay the
bills. She wasn't married, she didn't
have a family. She just are.
We talking about sorry, you're talking about Irene?
Yeah, I'm not. Talking about merry minutes, I'm
talking about Irene taking these kind of slightly, sort of, you
know. I don't think she wasn't, I
don't think she was no way prudish.
I just think it was just a job of work.
Exactly. Turn up, she'd do the lines and
go home, take the paycheck because she's single woman, you
know, she didn't have a husband to fall back on financially.
So just take the work, you know, keep working and you know, she
was just. She, yeah, she never married
with said that earlier, but she, she did say that in her, in her
20s, she did a lot of travelling abroad, including America during
Prohibition era. And, and, and remember she said
that she was, and I've seen a photo of, of her.
She, she was very attractive. And she says that she received
many marriage proposals, some by some, some by very wealthy
suitors, but but she turned them all down.
Yeah, it really strikes me that she was probably, it's a bit of
a cliche, but she was probably married to her profession.
You could really tell she really loved acting and having kids and
everything it would have. That would have been the kibosh
on the acting career. But I think when she was in
Paris when she was about 19, she started writing her first novel
called The Sioux, and then did pick it up until a few years
later and developed it more. And apparently it was a really
big hit and really highly rated by critics.
And apparently Paramount Pictures optioned it was there
was a possibility of it turning into a film.
And what? If if I'd been a proper
podcaster and and done my research, I'd have got a copy of
that and read that in preparation for this, but it it
probably could. Have and she did a sequel like
many years later she did a sequel to it.
What a weird. Name.
Yeah. It's it's some sort of I wish
I'd jotted it down, but it's, it's like the gold tipped Pfizer
or some Fitzer Fitzer or something.
But yeah, she did a a sort of follow up because the first one
was so popular and yeah, probably those critics from the
Sellers album would have loved it.
Yes, let's talk. About Whispering Giant because
so yes, sellers market we covered last year on Goon Pod.
So we've talked about this, the sketch.
But yeah, like you say, it is, it's a little bit sad.
It's it's the same, same or similar characters, but 20 years
later, pretty much, isn't it? Yeah, well, no, it's it's it's
Peter Sellers as himself, but playing a Frenchman.
Yeah, it's. Really strange because it's
like, oh, you're Peter Sellers, aren't you?
And it's it doesn't really sound like him, but.
Well, he's kind of doing an accent, which is kind of French,
I think. Or it's certainly an accent
because he's trying to remain anonymous.
I suppose that's the conceit, yeah.
They're on a plane to and sitting next to each other and
she's trying to spark up a conversation with him and he's
not really that interested, is he?
He's he's kind of humouring her, but it's he's also very self
deprecating on seller's part because you know, towards the
end she she recognises him or she thinks she thinks she thinks
she does and she gets him to side her arm and and then she
says, oh, Peter Sellers, Oh, thanks, thanks all the same.
My. Two husbands chalk from cheese
Tafnell. He was my first.
I used to call him daddy. He used to love to see me
kneeling up to the window with my thumb in my mouth.
We. Only had a.
Morris Minor in those days. But we was happy well.
After all, that's all that matters, you know, Happiness.
Happiness. I saw your look.
He did. Everyone looks when I hear.
I've been twice married. Of course I'm married.
Tafnell straight from the schoolroom, you know.
I've got no more idea of marrying than flying that man.
He treated me like I was rolled in gold.
I was his sacred trust. He even kept a special name for
me. What was it?
I don't think I want to tell you ah, but.
I want to know. I want to know.
Come on. He come he call me Squidgy.
Squidgy. But that's very nice.
Could you? Oh.
Yes, so honestly, when he passed over, I thought my bottom had
fallen out. There's.
Something sort of really poignant about it though,
because we know that's nearing the end of Seller's life.
And him probably looking back to his more happier times in the
50s when he was starting out and you know, his flourishing movie
career and all of this and being around people like Irene Handel
and the goons and and all those people and wanting to recapture
that. I think he was obviously not in
a very happy pet place with Lynn Frederick and she had alienated
his kids from him and controlled his life And and, you know, he
just wanted a bit of happiness in his life, I think.
And reconnecting with those old colleagues obviously meant a lot
to him. But there is sort of tinged with
sadness, I think, that sketch. Yes.
I never thought about it until you mentioned it.
And then it makes absolute sense that yeah, it does.
It's like. A circle completing isn't it in
a weird way. I don't think I will ever get
over Peter's death. It I don't know what it is.
It's something I can't pass the door.
Just about an awful It's a terrible loss.
She was interviewed about making that sketch and she said, she
said the other day I made the head of United Artists laugh and
he and he's a man reputed Devoto of laughter's life because he
was listening to that sketch because it was it was a United
Artist album, I guess, or release or whatever.
And she said about she said, I'm really chuffed about it, about
the the sketch. She said it's come out ever so
well. Oh dear.
I hope you won't think I'm being conceited.
But she wrote that, of course, didn't she?
That again, she wrote The Whispering Giant.
Yeah. She did.
She's a very talented writer. She obviously the acting career
took precedence, but she was a really, really brilliant writer.
Really had a great way with words.
Obviously, I can imagine her loving people watching like
stemming from her childhood and watching the the kind of
servants in the house and stuff and just, you know, sitting
there watching the world go by, watching people and how they
behave and the things they say you say.
She had a way with words more than I have, she said.
She had a way with words. She'd gone to see a particular
film and she came out and she said it looks like a Hoover
attachment. Can you?
Can you guess what it was that she was?
Mind boggles. What is she talking about?
She. She was very unimpressed by the
film all together. ET.
Really. Yes.
She she came out, she said, Oh well, I'm going to go and watch
a film with a Hoover attachment in it.
Oh dear, is that how ET is a Hoover attachment?
Yeah. Pretty much, but she wasn't
another film she was unimpressed by.
God, this is a good segue. I didn't mean this, but it fits.
She wasn't impressed by the magic Christian.
That. The Peter said well, but no she
There was a particular scene in the Magic Christian that she
wasn't impressed by I. Must tell you I phoned up Irene
Handle recently to congratulate her on something she was doing
on television, she said. She said, you know, she was an
overall mate of mine. She said, you know, Peter, you
know, I love you. She said, oh, not, I mean, you
know, not like that or anything, you know.
But she said, you know, the other day I saw that film the
Magic Christians or something. And you know, when that scene
with all the excreta come on at the end, a lot of us OAPs went
out. And I didn't know what she meant
by OAPs at that time, you know, So I said, what?
What do you mean? I appease love?
She said, well, I mean, you know, quite a lot of the old age
pensioners left when the excreta come on, she said, except there
was an Irishman sleeping there. I noticed him, but he didn't,
you know, because he was asleep, She said, but I don't honestly
think, you know, that people want to see excreta on a scene
like, you know, in the films. You know, I said yes, but the
point was love I and I said I know it was a very hard hitting
particular that scene, you know, from the book, but it really
meant that people will swim through shit for money and which
is absolutely true. I did it.
She said oh, but I don't know if the OAPs would do that.
You know, it takes someone takes balls for someone to phone up
Peter Sellers in the late 60s and and tell him that his film
was rubbish. Yeah.
That it really, I mean, at that point he was quite mad, wasn't
he? With power.
His ego was enormous at this point.
Absolutely it was. You know this slide had started,
hasn't it? Because he just seemed
impossible to work with. Yes.
So yes, she, she died in the late 80s.
She died I think 87. Yeah, one of the last things she
ever appeared in, which I've talked about on this podcast
before. And I think I think I've
possibly even played a clip. And because it's it's quite,
it's always stayed with me. She played she played the sister
of Min, not Minnie Bannister, but Min who was Elf Garnett's an
old next door neighbor in it's in to death or two-part.
But when they they made in sickness and in health in the
late 80s or mid to late 80s men played by Patricia Hayes.
The the peerless Patricia Hayes comes to visit Mr. Garnett and
brings her dotty old sister, which is I really handle.
Yeah, I'll. Say you haven't introduced us.
This is Mr. Garney. No, no, I'm not him.
Not Mr. Darn, The gentleman who lives here.
What's his name? It's Mr. Darn.
He told you to make me cross. Come here.
Is that thing switched? On Well, now she darn.
Now let's have a see. Testing, testing.
Yes. It's OK, I'll switch it on
there. It was switched on.
What did you want to say? She wanders a.
Bit anyway, it's ever so nice to see you again, Mr. Garnet, and
you haven't changed a bit. Oh.
Neither of you. I'm talking to him, not you.
You can't sit down there. Rest your feet a bit.
God. I wish she'd give a tongue a
rest I've seen. Clips recently of her in that
and she's very, very funny I. Don't know what she she doesn't.
She's playing a character who's clearly got dementia or, or
mental frailty, shall we say, and she plays it very
realistically that there's one point when she actually loses it
and starts almost screaming. Oh my.
God. In frustration, yeah, right.
And so it's not all laughs. No.
But then Johnny Spate didn't always write gags that he he, he
often would. There'd be a lot of sort of
darker stuff, yeah. More like a sort of play for
today than a sitcom. Yeah, yeah.
And and of course, getting back to the Sellers connection,
Sellers was his first choice to play off Garnet was.
Oh yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that.
But by that point Sellers was making the movies, so yeah.
But the point I'm making is that she turns out, I think it's, it
might be two episodes of in sickness and health.
Certainly one where there's a there's a seance, they conduct A
seance and all sorts. But I mentioned that because
it's, it's a very memorable, you know, it's pretty much her last
role. I would have said, well, nearly
her last role. Irene's had last role, but it's,
it's so memorable. But I, I thought it'd be good
opportunity because I mentioned Patricia Hayes.
I thought it'd be a good opportunity for you and I or for
you to play, to play a fun game that I've made-up called Handle
or Haze. So let me explain that the rules
are very, very difficult, so listen carefully, OK?
Is it like? Number Wang it's.
It's it's a bit more complicated than Number Wang.
So what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm going to name a
bunch of films, OK. And these are films which have
characters. I'm going to name the names of
the characters and you have to tell me whether it's Irene
Handel or Patricia Hayes. My.
Comedy geekdom is on the line here.
Some of. Them you'll know.
Some of them you may not. OK, I am menopausal so my memory
is not great but go. For it, but I know it's
definitely one of them. You will know definitely, right?
OK, so the film Smashing Time from 1967, which was that?
Have you ever seen that? That's that, yes.
Film. Set in swinging London with a
pair of fabulous birds. Yeah, Lynn Red.
Are Rita touching him? Rita.
Touching him and Lynn Redgrave Lynn.
Redgrave. That's right.
Yeah. OK, so smashing time.
There's a character called Mrs. Gimble.
Now, my question to you, Donnie. Yes.
Was that Irene Handle or Patricia Hayes?
I'm. Going to go for handle.
Correct. Yay.
OK, Do you want to double your money?
The next film, 1942 went to the day.
Well, and the character is Daisy.
Now, is that Irene Handle or is that Pat Hayes?
I'm just. I'm going to go with Hayes.
I can't really remember. I have seen that film, but I
can't remember Irene in it. But I'm going to go Hayes.
You are correct. It was Patricia Hayes.
Patricia Hayes, who was quite young then, but she still
looked. Yeah, about 18 like Edna.
The inebriated woman. OK, next one Carry on.
Nurse from 1959 and the the character is Mrs. Madge Hickson.
So is that Handel or Hayes? No, they've both been Carry On
films. I'm sure I'm gonna go.
I'm gonna go Hayes on this one. I'm going to go rogue and say
Hayes. Oh, dear.
No, no, it's not that important. It's I really handle now.
I'm. I'm very competitive.
It's I really handle as Mrs. Mrs. Hicks now.
Did you know the connection? Yeah.
But you said, I think Patricia Hayes was in one of the Carry On
doctors, wasn't she? Certainly, Yeah.
Do you know she has a another connection with Carry On films?
Son, Son. Yeah, he's in the later ones,
isn't he? He's the Boggs and Boggs junior
and the carry on at your convenience, isn't he?
He's. A young Richard Callaghan.
Richard. Callaghan or Callaghan?
Yes, that's right. OK, next film.
Oh God, I'm. Feeling the pressure now?
Absolute beginners from 1986 character Miss Larkin.
Oh my God, was it? Handel or Haze?
I was the one person in the cinema that saw Absolute
Beginners. I was on my own because I was a
massive David Bowie fan. I.
Why that film do? You.
Yeah, it's. It's got, it's got Ray Davis in
it, if I remember. Yeah, yeah.
Mandy Rice Davis in. Oh, wow.
Yes. Oh God, I'm only going to go
haze because by the time that absolute beginners came out, I
really handled was very, very old by this point.
It could have been her. It was.
I really handled. It was.
Handled. Oh my God.
I should have remembered that. All I could remember at the time
is David Bowie. That's all I could remember.
Yeah, OK, there's only a few more of these.
Don't worry, be over soon. Now in 1964 there was a one of
those British pop exploitation films that they that
proliferated where you had British pop stars being shoe
horned into cheesy comedy films. Comedy films.
There's one called It's All Over Town with Frankie Vaughan that's
Personal. Willie Rushton, The Hollies and
the Springfields. Right, that's in her brother.
Yeah, that's in her brother. Yeah.
And and playing the char lady, the very memorable role of the
char lady. Was that handle or haze?
Oh. God, I'm going to go haze this
time. Correct now, 1969 Film.
Good God, I'm going to have to take a run at this.
Can Hieronymous Merkin ever forget Mercy Hump and Find True
Happiness 1969 Enter the newly film Jake Collins and Bruce
Forsyth playing playing the role of grandma.
Was that Handel or Hayes? I'm going to go.
With Handel on this one. Hayes, I'm.
So ashamed. OK, this one.
I never go with this one. This one.
This one's tricky. OK, A Fish Called Wanda, 1988.
Mrs. Cody was that handle, or Hayes, that is.
Definitely Hayes because Irene Handle sadly died at this point.
It could be really possible. She was the she was the lady
with the the Yorkshire Terriers, wasn't she?
That kept getting splattered by Michael Palin and.
Even if, even if they'd offered the road to Irene, even if she'd
been alive, she'd have refused because she loved the
Chihuahuas. She would.
She would never have. She'd never have been in a film
where dogs got yeah. Didn't they use the pavement in
like test screenings? They actually used blood and
they objected. They objected to that, didn't
they? They wanted more sort of cartoon
violence. As long as you didn't see the
blood splatting Yorkshire, Yorkshire Terriers was fine.
But it's more like, you know, wily coyote type violence.
Absolutely. Yes, it was.
It was too. It was too realistic.
The first, yeah. Yeah, it was a bit.
Yeah, too much for the for the old test audience.
Right Confessions of a Driving instructor 1976 miss slender
parts handle or haze it's. Got to be handle, isn't it?
It's handle. Yes, 2 Irene.
Why 2? More, two more, and then I
promise it's it's over. Oh.
God. The Great Rock'n'roll Swindle,
1979 playing cinema usherette Is it handle or Haze?
I'm going to go with Haze on this one.
Oh. No.
And finally and finally, 1973 Love Thy neighbor, the feature
feature film of that comedy behemoth.
Oh. My God.
Booth was the character. Was that Handel or Hayes?
Oh dear God, love thy neighbor. I'm going to go with Handel, but
I'm probably wrong, aren't I? You are.
Roberts, Hayes. Hello, Haze.
I can't believe it. Yeah.
Yeah, because around that time, Love the neighbor, Irene was
making the sitcom for the love of Ada.
Did you ever see that? Yes.
That was a bit before my time, but I've seen clips of it.
Yeah, yeah, that was. Was that Wilfred Pickles?
Yes, I think yes, it was and they didn't.
Really like each other. I I was like, I gather they
didn't really get on. No, well, he didn't.
No, I was going to say no. I'm thinking of who was the
other pair that didn't get on around the same time.
Oh, Hilda. Baker and Jimmy Jimmy Jewel.
That's right. Yeah.
They hated each other, didn't
they? They would communicate through,
I don't know, through the floor manager or something.
Absolutely. I'm not sure if it's in the film
version of For the Love of Ada or or one of the episodes of the
TV series. On the mantelpiece in the front
room, there's the wedding photograph of of the two main
characters, right? But I've seen a photograph where
they've zoomed in, someone zoomed in.
It's actually the wedding photo of her and Peter Sellers as Mr.
and Mrs. Kite. Mr. and Mrs. Kite, I love that
wedding photo. I love that picture.
I hope you're satisfied, Fred Kite.
It was democratically arrived at.
I mean, I am chairman of the Works committee.
Oh. Yes, you're chairman of the
Works Committee, all right. Don't we all know it?
Sick to death of you and your Works Committee Union this,
union that, and your blasted Soviet Union.
There is a. Strike on mother, you're
telling. Me, there's a strike on.
I'll tell you something else. The strike spread to this House
from now on. Cynthia.
Get our bags packed. We're going back to Auntie
Edie's. There's two can play at this
game. You know you wanted a strike,
You've got one. Perhaps when you feel like going
back to work, I will. And here's something else I'm
going to tell you. Here's another strike that's
100% solid. One of the last times I ever saw
her on telly was on, I think it was like Good Morning Britain,
like breakfast television. And it wasn't long before she
died and she sort of said they're asking her about Peter
Sellers and stuff. And she said it's so sad.
All my friends are gone now. And she started crying.
No, it was really upsetting. It was like, I just wanted to
give her a big hug. It was like, oh, don't, don't
make Irene cry, don't do that. But it was very moving, You
know, she was, she's very affected by his death.
And in that interview on that comedy roots thing, she does
does mention the Dorchester Hotel and saying I can't go past
it. She's like almost in a bit of
denial that he had gone. Yes, I know.
Yeah. And I guess it's obviously so.
Fond of him so fond. Of him and also she had no
family so she was she's pretty quite lonely she had a
chihuahuas but. But I tell you.
What, in that comic roots thing she she didn't hold back on
David Warner, did she? No.
Oh my God, she didn't like him at all, did she?
She mentioned like he had terrible acne or something.
She. Couldn't remember his name.
She couldn't remember his name. She him with the acne, Yeah.
Him with the acne who's that? David Warner, yes oh, I didn't
like him I could imagine him being quite difficult and sort
of mellowing out as he got older, you know, when the, you
know, young actors that fresh out of drama school being quite,
you know, Moody and difficult. Maybe I.
I mean, I love him in so many things, but I watched Straw Dogs
the the original straw dogs with Oh yeah, Dustin Hoffman from
whatever year 72 and and he's in that David Warner, but you
wouldn't know it. He's he's one of the main
characters, but he had his name taken off the credits.
Oh, really? Did he ask him for his name to
be taken, I presume? He must have done, yeah.
Wow, Yeah, yeah. And also Time Bandits, of
course, Of course. Didn't that, yes, I'm sure if
Irene had seen him in Time Bandits, she'd taken it all
back. She should have been in Time
Bandits. She should.
Have been as a. Char lady or lame lady or
something? Yeah, all these.
People, yeah. So I think we've, we've pretty
much we've, we've leaned very heavily on talking about Irene.
But look, as I say, we, I've said before, we talk about
sellers all the time, but I think, I think we've, we've made
a pretty decent fist of we're talking about the, the two of
them and the, the, the affection they clearly had for each other
and the, the work they did with each other.
And and if. You, I mean, OK, I know she, she
died in in 87. You know, maybe if he'd lived,
if he'd lived a few more years, they may have they may have even
made another film together. Who knows who?
Knows. Yeah.
And one of those rare people. I have her autograph.
I bought her autograph, right because I admired her so much.
It's a it's an old postcard she signed for a fan.
A photo of her quite young. I think she must have sent it
out in the sort of late 40s, early 50s to a fan.
And I've got it in a frame. I've moved house so often.
It's, it's in a box somewhere. I still have it, but I just, I
just loved her so much that I, I thought I really, I would love
to have that her autographs. I bought it.
So yeah, her. And I've got Peter Cook and
Dudley Moore's autographs as well as, you know, I told you in
a bedazzled 1. So yeah, I've got she's yeah,
one of the other one, the I've got her autograph, which is
treasured possession because I just think in a in a few years
time, she's just going to be forgotten.
And but I can see her influence in in lots of people.
And some people probably who are who are working in comedy now
are probably doing stuff that she's she did, but I'm not even
aware not. Even.
Aware the the influence has filtered down and she was just
so great and there's there wasn't anything kind of sneery
or looking down her nose at working class people They were
they were always based. There was a lot of affection
there and you know, you felt it came from a good place and it
was very well observed and very truthful and she was great and
and talking about two way stretch earlier.
I always think her she's in it more than she is because she's
still so much, you know, she's she's only in it for a few
scenes really, but her she looms much larger because she's so
good. But I love I love her.
I love watching her. She's infinitely watchable and
she always brings a little bit extra, you know, a little bra
strap hanging down or a little swing of her shoulders as she's
talking. You know, I think, you know, she
was magic and you know, a lot of comedians of the time obviously
thought so too and absolutely loved working with her.
She was great. I've had a very good life, very
good. There's nothing to grouse about.
The only thing is my being my own fault that I started too
late and I don't see unless I back up that I'm ever going to
make it. Thanks again to Donna.
Thank you for listening as always, and please rate and
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