I was listening to the reason. Why the other day, which
interested me as well, that same non audience approach.
This wasn't that wasn't a very good one.
I wasn't. It was the transportation of
Cleopatra needle from Egypt. Wasn't it?
two-story? Only idiots would have done
that, transported Cleopatra's needle for it's on the
embankment now. And the question is why That's
true. You're talking about 8 words a
minute. I'd say I was talking about 8
words a minute. Just trying to check.
Hello and welcome to Goonpod. 90 odd minutes of desultory
grunting and occasionally somebody gets to the point.
My name is Tyler Adams and this week I am joined by a newcomer,
although it is somebody who I have actually met in the wild,
in the flesh. In fact, we've had several
pints. It's Phil Shoebridge.
Hello, Phil. Hello there, Tyler.
Thank you for inviting me on. Very interesting in this because
you've had lots of people from varying backgrounds, be they
writers, musicians, producers or performers, and I'm just some
guy. Yeah.
And, and and you actually contacted me, when was it?
It was about a year ago, I suppose, coming up for a year
ago. I think it was.
I think to start with I'll
responded to your request for What are your top ten game
shows? Oh yeah.
And then later on I was coming up to see those wacky pop
frontsters House of all. They were playing a gig in
Manchester. So knowing you're in the
Manchester area, I said if I'm going to be around, did you want
to meet up for a pint or whatever?
And that's what happened. So yeah, that was a that was a
that was a really good trip to Manchester.
It was a really Good Friday afternoon, so.
It was it was a lovely sunny day, OK.
And I said to you then, you know, if you if you were to come
onto the show, what would you want to talk about?
And, and we're talking about a show that doesn't really a goon
show that doesn't really get talked about much at all, which
is called the reason why. And we'll come to that in a bit.
But before we do so, Phil, what's your history with the
Goon Show? I might have come into it via
Michael Benton's Potty Time as as a kid because I remember, I
don't remember individual episodes, but I remember, say,
the little flicks of sand that indicated the character moving
around a model landscape. And I suspect there was Milligan
in things I saw on television. And I had a number of his books
say it's silly verse for kids, which I still have somewhere
behind me. And I suspect my dad had
mentioned again show to some extent, maybe he might have even
done the odd blue pot, blue bottle impersonation, but that
kind of didn't mean that much to me.
Someone gave him that's him, not me.
The Goon show scripts book one Christmas or birthday and that's
now on my bookshelf. I don't know if you've ever
actually read it because I've that's credibly become mine.
So I'd probably read goon shows before I'd heard them, apart
from maybe Adrian. Just I'll chat about him in a
second. But oh, I Oh dear.
Yeah. So Oh no, only, only, only
positively. I think it possibly my mother
who got me into radio comedy more generally because I
realised writing a list of what things they were like, I
thought, yeah, a lot of this is radio comedy.
And that's still a way that I, I think for things.
So it's so things like the news headlines and you've recently
had Dirk Mags on and he was, he was produced on that.
And I think she introduced me to Beyond Dark M, which then is the
gateway drug to Round the Horn, which I absolutely love.
She might have introduced me to. I think she introduced me to the
Grumbleweeds as well, which for those of you not of these shows
was something, I guess it started in the 70s and into the
80s. But there was a radio producer,
I think it was in Manchester, Mike Craig.
I think he championed them and did a lot of writing for them.
And I certainly found them very funny when I was a lot younger.
Possibly. They're kind of a bit sort of
variety and work in men's club. I don't think I've ever heard
the Grumbleweeds. I've heard of them, obviously,
but I don't actually think I've sat down and listened to them.
Right, because they had ATV series sometime in the 80s as
well. Although you won't do that again
because one of one of the founder members who I think
passed away two or three years ago, one of his stock in trades
was a Jimmy Savile impersonation, right?
That work dried up last. So that a bit like a Hugh, Hugh
Dennis from the Now from the Now show.
Oh, no, no, actually, I'm wrong. He wasn't the one who passed
away. It was, it was the other.
It was the one who didn't do the Jimmy Savile impersonation who
passed away and that he actually recruited a new member the the
survivor. So yeah, actually I'm I'm wrong
on that. Spare a thought for those people
who make make a dime as celebrity impersonators, because
you have to think. Yeah, you think of poor Jeanette
Charles when the Queen turned up her toes.
Think of Steve Nallan from Spitting Image.
Yeah, when Thatcher. I was I was thinking as well of
Janet Brown because she used to do a fairly reliable factor
impersonation. Absolutely.
And we'll come back to we'll, we'll, Janet Brown will come
back up in conversation briefly a little bit later, I think.
By the way, OK, so it's funny how so many people got into the
Goon show through the Goon show scripts, book or books that
I've, you know, people I've spoken to where like you say,
you know, that they they'd read the shows before they heard the
shows. Yes, I've got a book of
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy scripts, and I can't remember if
I'd heard them all before I had that book.
The first series, yes, I would have known what the story was,
by and large. And crikey, when I was a lot
younger, I used to reread the books once every six months
because they were so important and I enjoyed them so much.
Although that's when the first three, the ones that came after,
perhaps less so. Well, they're the 4th one I
remember really enjoying as well.
It's nice to be back in that world to some extent.
Yeah, yeah. It's probably quite unusual for
any kind of medium for you to for someone to have read about
it when its main element is either sound or pictures.
Yeah, do you remember the first Green show you actually heard?
Yes, we'll see. I will have heard lots of bits
through the Adrian Just Show because he used to weave in
snippets from all sorts of classic comedy and I think they
kind of did the in. In some ways it's similar to the
job I think Radio One did in the late 70s, eighties and even into
the 90s of a lot of it in contemporary stuff.
They'd splice in some old stuff as well.
So you had a bit of an an education in these things.
You get these little tasters of of music from previous years.
And I think Adrian Josh just sowed the seeds for many of us
to appreciate comedy outside what we knew.
Also maybe gets you into the habit of cherry picking lines
from things that I still kind of do.
And a good friend of mine still still does what whatever the
source you might of the comedy, you might say something, just
apply it to a particular moment and it's almost an in joke.
I imagine loads of us do that. Adrian just I used to listen to
occasionally in the early 90s. I don't know, it used to, even
though I liked some of the clips that he would play, it used to
annoy me when he would punctuate songs with a line from Hancock
or Lauren Hardy or whoever it was because a lot of the time I
just wanted to hear the song. Yeah, I think it was because
there's some other on BBC Sounds, I don't know if it's
still there, but they had some interviews with previous DJs
after an that particular anniversary of Radio One or One
FM, me being with Mark Radcliffe, persuasion, and there
was an interview with him on there.
And he'd actually been, I can't remember the breakfast show DJ
or he'd done the what became the Simon Bates slot.
He'd done that sort of five days a week for quite some time.
He'd come in from I think the Birmingham area, I recall, and
they said, oh, you sound a bit like this guy, why don't you try
and do this? And that involved lots of use of
effects and so forth. And so he kind of became known
in his own words as a wacky character.
So he just carried that in to cracky one hour long show a
week, which, and sometimes I he'd kind of edit him.
Well, he would edit himself in there, and I think sometimes
that would, I'd find that annoying, but sometimes it
worked. And then after a while there,
there was a woman involved in crack, a woman in comedy.
Who'd have thought it? Good Lord.
Yeah, exactly. Quite actually very progressive
for the for the late 80s, early 90s.
I and I suppose there's a bit of Kenny Everett in that, isn't
there? Because he, he used to do that
on his, on his radio shows. Not that I've listened to any of
his live stuff, but you sort of you heard about things a lot
later. Well, and another thing with
Agent just a friend of mine found it massively hilarious
when he was featured in that Blood on the Carpet series on
the BBC. Where?
You had, oh, it's, it's when sort of management restructured
things in the fallout. And Radio One was one of those.
So it was when Matthew Bannister joined Radio One and his brief
was right. Your, your listeners are from
this age to that age and it doesn't cater for that.
It is not your business. And, and everyone had been there
for so long and it was literally part of the furniture.
It was one of the family. And for people to be removed
created a lot of issues. And, and when the, when Danny
Baker was broadcasting, now I like Adrian just, and I like
Danny Baker and Adrian was not particularly keen on what he was
hearing. And DLT rang him up and said,
are you listening to this? And Danny Baker in his
autobiography was he described him as a droopy old bit of
string, which I have to say is one of the most withering
insults. I've ever heard Adrian just he
referred to him as. Yes.
Wow, you know, have you ever seen the film The Alan Partridge
Film? AP.
I haven't because I've got this weird blind spot in my comedy
where I don't really like Alan Partridge on his own.
I like, you mean the day-to-day and on the hour.
But similarly with The Office. And I can watch one episode of
The Office and I think, well, OK, anything else is just that
joke again, isn't it? Yeah.
So it possibly means I've missed a few things that I've.
I've seen some stuff but I haven't seen AP.
The crux of the film basically is that there's, there's like a
the radio station that Alan Partridge works for, there's a
new management team and they're doing a complete overhaul and
they're getting rid of, they have to get rid of, I guess what
they would class as dinosaur DJs.
And one of them, one of them, basically a large gentleman
called Pat doesn't want to go and there ends up being a
hostage situation. OK.
And, and the reason I mention that is that I know this didn't
happen at all, but in my head, I think that's what happened with
DLT, with the hero conflict. And I wish it had happened, but
no. Pat isn't very good, so let him
go guys. Seriously.
I can condense that to three words, just like Pat.
That completes my presentation, gentlemen.
I'll leave this your biscuits. So with the games now, the, the
show we're talking about today is quite unique in that it is
performed without an audience and without any, well, there's
music in it, but there's no, I don't know, there's, there's no
live music. It's all played in, isn't it?
There's, there's no Max or Ray, but yeah, there's a lot of music
in this. The the, the reason why that
we're going to talk about today that is, is new.
I mean, it, it's all from disc. It's got quite a strange
atmosphere. The reason why it's a it is a
completely different atmosphere when you compare it to other
goon shows recorded with an audience.
Right, So what? Why this?
Why this particular episode? Well, for a long time, my
favorite goon show episode was the mountain eaters.
So that's so that's like a typical goon show, but for some
reason it seemed to be gag, gag, gag, gag gag or amazing idea.
And it just, I, I, I didn't ever tire of listening to it, But
then when I heard this one, this was something else.
I think that somehow the absence of an audience live music makes
it a completely believable world because there's no reference to
sort of say hello folks or anything.
It's a story being told to, to the world.
So I I found it much easier to take the setting seriously, to
the point where when you get to Blood Knocks Office, I can
envisage the textures of the fabrics hung on the walls in my
mind. And there's there's the scene on
the balcony where On Bowel speaks with Valentine Dials
character. Somehow that just seems to it
just seems to be alive for me. The plot kind of has some sense
and the narrative largely helds together.
There are umpteen holes and changes which I've suddenly
realised. But as a goon show, it's a goon
show. So it's based upon a really
stupid premise, undertaking a massive enterprise as part of
the cheapest way to fill in a hole or to achieve something.
When I've I've shipped myself a couple of questions or having
listened to it again, thinking basically it's nothing to do
with the government, is it? I think that's a local authority
matter or perhaps the the Thames River Board or whatever.
So it's a really, and you could even say things like we wouldn't
have Lords and MPs in the same chamber.
Well, that's true. OK, overthinking it now.
Oh, absolutely, yeah. But of course that.
I do that. I do that.
Well, that's that's what happens when you start to work out why
you like something. If you dismantle the butterfly,
you still got the beautiful bits.
It's not a butterfly anymore, is it?
It's a very nice turn to phrase that I must use that.
OK, before we start talking about it, and I want to talk
about how the show came about as well, but I I occasionally like
to give a little bit of historical context as to what
was going on in the world when these shows air.
OK. And this one, this one is it, it
comes between Series 7 and Series 8 and it's broadcast.
I think it's just over a month before the beginning of Series
8. OK, so it's it's broadcast on
the 22nd of August 1957. Now you know, I was looking to
see what happened on 22nd of August 1957.
Not again, not a huge amount that would interest us, but
there was a very significant birth on the 22nd of August
1957. Now are you a snooker fan?
I'm a huge snooker fan. Are you?
I don't. I don't follow it anymore, but I
would I would recognize. I'm sure I'd recognize the
names. OK, ever heard of the Golden
Nugget? Oh, that wasn't that wasn't Bill
Werbeneck, was it? Or something.
No, no, no, Bill Werbeneck, who who had a doctor's note saying
that he he he could drink pints during matches to steady his
nerves. Yes.
So who was the golden nugget then?
That was a nickname given to Steve Davis.
Oh, was it? Oh, crikey, yeah.
I've never heard of that in his association with him.
Yeah, I think it was Alex Higgins and kindly gave him that
name. Nickname maybe?
I'm not sure. No love lost between those two.
Steve Davis, now perhaps better known as a prog rock enthusiast.
Big Magma fan. Well, yeah, and also he's he's
in a in a group called Utopia Strong and he performs with
Carvers Tarabi, who's now in who's in gone and used to be in
Cardiacs, who were kind of almost like a prog rock band but
with punk sensibilities. Yes.
And one of the one of those bands where I think, oh, lots of
that's far too twiddly. You know, about 10 songs, and I
like about six of them, but I really like three of them.
So in fact, I think I saw Steve Davis in a pub in Bristol a few
years ago when I was there for a friend's birthday, and I think
he might even have been performing as Utopia Strong
before I really knew what it was.
So I didn't. So I'd never heard that golden
nugget Monica applied to him. I suppose it was the Spitting
Image, Steve interesting Davis that that stuck and turns out to
be accurate in a way that Spitting Image had no intention
of achieving so. Yeah, he, he laboured for many,
many, many years to shake off that interesting association and
I and I think he, I think he managed it.
Yes. Well, well, well certainly if
you're, I suppose because I'm sort of of the Mark Radcliffe,
Mark Riley persuasion when it comes to radio DJs, you
eventually become aware of of things like that.
So. OK, so yeah, so Steve Davis was
born on the day the show goes out.
Stephen Fry was born two days later, by the way.
Oh, OK. And on the 22nd of August, so
the day that this show is broadcast, Harry Seekins up in
Liverpool. He's he's performing at the
Liverpool Empire in the show called Rocking the Town or
Rocking the Town. And again around this time as
well. In August 1957, the Peter
Sellers single boiled bananas and carrots backed by any old
iron was released. Wasn't that boiled beef and
carrots? Well, the original I think was
boiled beef and carrots, but his his version is boiled bananas.
But of the two, Any Old Iron is the one that is the is the tune
that is remembered these days, if it's remembered at all.
In fact, Ralph Reeder, who was Seller's mentor, he was the guy
behind the gang shows in the wall that Sellers appeared in.
Ralph Reeder chose Any Old Iron as one of his desert island
disks in 1961. So do you remember?
And it got to number 17. And it was produced by, of
course, George Martin. George Martin Yes, and on the
George Martin topic, because I had a look to see what was
happening in history around the time of broadcast and because I
wondered when it when the show might have been written.
You'll maybe you'll be able to tell me that, but the closest
thing I found was on the 6th of July, Paul McCartney meets John
Lennon and his band The Quarryman.
So that's, that's a, that's a significant event for you, I
would, I would imagine. Oh yeah, Walton and fate, Yeah.
And it was Ivan Vaughn that introduced them, wasn't it?
Paul's mate, who was a friend of John's as well.
Oh, OK, right. Yeah.
So I'm not, I'm not a I'm not a great disciple of The Beatles,
as I've previously confessed. To but.
But I I understand now very, very important because most of
the bands I like are probably based to some extent on The
Beatles or the freedom that The Beatles achieve for people.
Yes. Are they quite popular?
The Beatles. Oh yes, you're very welcome.
So they, so John and Paul met? Yeah.
So John and Paul met, what, six weeks before the show?
OK, anyway, the background to this show and.
And obviously we had the starlings.
You've heard the starlings, I'm guessing.
Yes. And because that's another of
the ones without a an audience and that's got a completely
different atmosphere, but it's got a completely different
atmosphere to this one because it because the recording that we
hear doesn't sound as good as this one.
No in terms of quality, but. It was recorded up in Newcastle.
I seem to remember we we have done an episode on.
Starling. Yes.
Yes, you have. Yeah.
But Spike really enjoyed that experience doing the Starlings.
OK. And in February of 57, Spike was
chatting to the Goon Show producer Pat Dixon.
I think they were probably talking about, you know,
planning or contract negotiations for the upcoming
Series 8, the Goon show, right? And Spike suggested to Pat
Dickson that it might be an idea that the Goons could could do
645 minute shows without an audience in the vein of the
Starlings. OK, So he had it in his head
that he wanted to make six of these special audience free
shows. All right.
And Pat Dickson was open to it. So Pat Dickson goes and puts
this to the management, BBC management.
So that's in February. But by April he'd, he'd had very
little in the way of any sort of encouragement by by the
management and Spike, Spike had kind of moved on as well by this
point. And he had all the commitments
and, and what not writing commitments and all the rest of
it. And he'd only produce and he
produced one script, which is this show, the reason why?
And it was agreed that that this would be produced as a special,
not within the the actual series.
They decided, look, we'll just do this one and the other five
that they had in mind or that Spike had in mind or they hadn't
written the idea for that was quietly dropped, OK.
And they planned that they would they would record in July and
and then they couldn't record in July because Harry had
commitments. So they recorded it in on the
11th of August at at BBC Piccadilly Studios.
And the thing the thing about this is that Pat Dixon was
unavailable at this time to to produce.
The reason why? So Jakes Brown stepped in.
There was a chap called Jack's Jack, somebody who put on Men At
Work. Brown Jakes Brown.
Yeah, he used to pay Nicholas Ridiculous to give himself some
money in the show. Cunning bastard.
I saw he was the producer and in that sort of mid 80s
introduction to the Goons, A Sound of Goons, I seem to
remember him being mentioned as possibly one of the original
producers of the Goons. But he was a great believer in
recording without an audience, which at the time I think the
performers and the writers thought, no, we need the
audience to give it, to give it the lift and to give the
performers energy. So it's interesting that it was
that it was, it was him, but also maybe that explains why the
quality was up there because that was something he
concentrated on. Well, he was, Yeah, he was.
He was there right at the beginning with the Goons 1948.
They 194849 Jimmy Grafton is trying to hawk round to the BBC
the idea of the Goons. And they'd made this prototype
Goon show recording called Sellers Castle.
Oh, yes, I do remember hearing of that, yeah.
And it was set in a sort of rundown Oldcastle and Lord
Sellers owned it. And you had Michael Benteen in
there as a guest of Ozric Pure Heart type.
You had Harry and and Spike as Eccles had Alfred Marks in it,
Peter Butterworth and Robert Morton.
So they were all in this recording and also Janet Brown.
Ah, good. Janet Brown.
Goodness, me and Jake Brown had been, I think it, I think the
case was the BBC had said, OK, you can, you could record like a
pilot if you like. And so, so that's what they did
and they got Jake Brown as the producer and he, as you say, he,
Brown didn't like studio audiences particularly.
He just thought it was unnecessary to have a studio
audience and Jimmy Grafton thought the opposite and they
argued and and what they agreed was that they would they would
record 2 pilots, one with an audience and one without.
The problem was the first one they they recorded was without
an audience and without telling Jimmy Grafton.
Jakes Brown took that tape to the program planners who
listened to it and rejected it, and so they never got a chance
to hear the one the audience. I do remember hearing something
along those lines within that A Sound of Goons.
I've not listened to that documentary for so long.
That's right. Well, yeah.
And he, so he, he'd been, he'd been involved with that pilot.
And then the Reason why is his only credited Goon Show producer
credit, if you like. Although he did produce the Goon
Show episode, the missing Prime Minister from the fourth series
because Peter, Peter Eaton had been taken ill.
And so at the last minute, they got Jake, Jake Browning to to
produce. Although at the end of that
show, Greenslade still announces the producer as Peter Eaton.
Yeah. So, yeah.
So so they got Jake Browning on board to to produce The reason
why around this time as well. Do you know about the vintage
Goons recordings that they did? They ended up doing Series 8.
There's quite a few of the the ones that I've either heard
through BBC Sounds or when it when it was when they were
broadcast on the radio, they'd say vintage goons or.
For the. Transcription service.
And yes, I think you've said before that it sounds like that
it, it kind of kills a load of the energy of the of the new
Goon shows because you know, people are having to do 2 shows.
Well, that's right. So they were recording a bunch
of re recording or new new recordings of a bunch of mainly
series 4 episodes and and these were purely going to be used for
overseas radio stations, particularly CBC in in Canada.
And originally they were going to record these between series 7
and series eight. OK.
But again, because of Harry's unavailability, because he was,
he was appearing in rocking the town, they they couldn't record
these vintage goons episodes prior to series 8.
And also Larry who, Larry Stevens, who was adapting the
script, he had commitments on things like the Army game at the
time. So again, he wasn't able to
revise the episodes in time. So they ended up being recorded
in series during series 8 anyway.
So they they, they, they record this the reason why in early
August 57, it goes out the 22nd and after or around the time
it's going out being recorded, it's agreed that Jakes Brown
would actually take over as permanent producer of the Goon
show from from mid November because Pat Dixon was going to
do the first few and then he he was going to sort of step down
in the end. As it turned out, Pat Dixon
never returned to the Goon show. He was ill as well.
He was also recording Michael Bentine's radio series, and
Jakes Brown never ended up taking over as permanent
producer. So perhaps, perhaps that's for
the best. I don't know.
Possibly if if you're in a, if it's a format you're not
comfortable with, so you probably don't believe it as
much, you're going to be spikier and less motivated in certain
ways, so. That's it, that's it.
And it's and so in when when this episode goes out, there's a
literal article in the Radio Times saying it says goon
special. It says home service listens on
Thursday can hear the results of spikes, literary labours in the
reason why a programme of Midsummer madness guaranteed to
gladden the goon struck. That's quite that's quite a bit
of Spiel 4, isn't it? Yeah, and have you seen, have
you seen the photographs of the goons around Cleopatra's Needle?
No I haven't. Is this an?
Is this an image search I need to do?
Yes, yes, there's a, there's a number of photographs as, as I
guess publicity for this show, the goons adopted Victorian garb
mostly. And they, they, they went around
and had the photograph taken around Cleopatra's Needle and
the Daily Mirror dated 12th of August 1957.
So the day after the show was recorded.
And I'm presuming they had these photos taken the day that they
recorded the show. The Daily Mirror has a has a
short piece saying it's it's titled Bloody Hell, Gooner
Gooner Patra, Gooner Patra, which isn't that isn't a pun
gooner Patra, is it? That needs 5 more minutes,
doesn't. It and it says and whoever wrote
this says. I took what should have been a
quiet stroll along London's Embankment after lunch yesterday
and found the goons were in command of Cleopatra's Needle.
This is 1887 yelled Spike Milligan standing on the base in
a pair of rust corduroy trousers, green shoes, a tail
coat and a taupey. We've just bought this back from
Africa. A well known place alongside him
where Harry seek him and Peter Sellers and tailcoats and
toppers. Harry screeched and ducked.
Lookout Pigeon then started to sing a song about Lord
Palmerston. I love you.
Having all convinced themselves that they had just bought the
needle back across the seas, Harry announced.
I now declare this needle well and truly threaded.
Then they then they sang they'll always be in England and gave 3
hearty chairs for the Empire. 100 or so passers by joined in
the fun when one snapped a picture of Seek and he yelled
I'll have three of them. What was this Gooner Patras
needle stuff all about? I asked.
The goons explained that they have a new theory on how the
needle came to Britain which they will expound in a special
BBC Home Service program on August 22.
Yesterday they were getting local colour and then it says in
in italics. Cleopatra's needle was a gift
from Egypt to Britain and was towed here in a special iron
container in 1878. So there you go.
Because I'd kind of forgotten that it would, that Cleopatra's
needle is actually on the embankment.
So yeah, yes, because there you can.
You can see photos of the needle in its in its buoyant jacket.
Yes, that did have a, it did have that wooden jacket thing,
yeah. Yes, steel or steel or whatever
it is, it's quite something because it's, it's a, it's a big
lump of stone to move around. I've got a little bit of
information about it and which I will not go into, apart from
just to say it was originally constructed for that Mose the
third, whoever he was, she was. He gets mentioned by Sellers,
mentions him in one of the goon shows.
It might be. Is it Rummel's treasure or
something? Oh, OK, yeah.
And then it was during the sort of, I guess pre Victorian
period, just after the Napoleonic Wars, it was, it was
decided that the obelisk be brought to England by private
means. The government didn't want to
get involved and Sir Erasmus Wilson, who was a surgeon,
provided the funds to bring it across.
Good Lord. And it was transported in a 92
foot. There you go.
Iron pontoon, not wood. OK.
It was abandoned in a storm in the Bay of Biscay, but it was
recovered. And then it was installed on a
pedestal on the Thames Embankment in 1878.
And it has this kind of time capsule element to it.
It's got many things sort of secreted away inside it, inside
like a cavity, which we'll come to later.
It's interesting that they say it's a gift from the government
of Egypt when wonder who the government of Egypt was at the
time. Yes.
Yeah, to the and and and brought to the UK by by by private
means, actually, that's not going to blow up in anyone's
faces later on. Mr. Prime Minister, you haven't
introduced me to our guest. This is the Honourable Harold
Bowles, MP. And Bowles?
This is Lord Finn, the famous builder and sculptor.
Builder and sculptor. What do you sculpt?
Houses. Do you use a model?
My dear old grandmother, You'll see.
It's a family business, I see. A sculptor, you say?
Hi, Jove. You might be the very man.
Let's let's go out on the balcony setting there.
Excuse me, I I think your fed has held in his pocket, Jove.
So he has. Allow me to introduce him to
your Count Moriarty, the honourable bound beetle.
Meet you on bound Montplega. Montplega.
The Count is a model much in demand by artists on the
continent. Really.
Yes. He posed for the original Eiffel
Tower. Good how he's changed.
So what my first question about this?
I don't know if you you can answer this.
I don't. We're missing, I think we're
missing something here. It's called the reason why, and
that's presumably based on a maybe a book or I don't know
what. I don't know why it's called,
the reason why? No, I've, I, I haven't, I
haven't come to any particular conclusions unless it's, unless
it's why Cleopatra's needle on the Tenzin Franklin.
That's that's the after what he told me.
That's, that's the closest thing.
So that's a bit of a, that's a tiny little thing rather than
some no esoteric comment. Yeah.
Or the Thames Embankment scandal might have been another title.
But I suppose it doesn't it it doesn't invite curiosity, does
it? It doesn't.
And the reason why is not a Goon show title.
It's it's like this. It's like the title of the play,
a radio play. But then, maybe that's what
Milligan was thinking. If he if he'd started off with
the idea of, oh, let's have 645 minute long stories or dramas,
maybe it's it's almost sort of like a goon film, but on the
radio. Well, it, it's recorded in BBC
Piccadilly studios as opposed to in a theatre in front of an
audience. And the, so you get it's, it's
recorded like a, like a radio play and you get these kind of
flat acoustics, quite subdued tone to it.
Oh, and by the way, I was going to say I I looked at the
original script and there's loads of stuff that isn't
included in the actual show as broadcast.
So I'm I'm assuming I'm thinking that maybe it was a 45 minute
script that was then. Cut down.
Cut down, yeah, but and and it's kind of like, I mean, there's a
distinct whiff of the decline of Empire about this and, and, and
it's trappings as you get in a lot of game shows, but this
one's got much more sort of boys and adventure feel to it.
Yes, because the isn't the the territorial height of the
British Empire? Isn't that 1922 when I think it
achieves? Is it 20% of the of the land
area? Of the globe is it that late?
Is it 22 it? Is that late?
And then I don't know quite what causes the change.
Possibly they then no declare other areas their own dominions
or something. But yeah, so in 1876, things
things were still still expanding.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's Spikes obviously got a
been as bonnet about the British Empire.
Well, haven't, haven't been born in it, but, and I wonder if the
way his father was treated as an Irishman, which is OK, You've,
you've now come back, we've brought you back from India and
you're no longer a British citizen.
So yes, and you've, you've, you've talked before about his
antipathy towards some members of the officer class.
Well, those war memoirs, he seems to get on well enough with
quite a few of them. Mm hmm, I'm just just to catch
him as well. So Spike wrote this on his own.
So for series 7, which preceded this, I think all of them mostly
he was, he was writing with Larry, Larry Stevens.
And for a solo, Spike's script is this is remarkably, I mean,
it's, it's amusing, but it's remarkably restrained.
It's not loose as you'd. There's not huge zany moments.
No, it's. I hate to use the word zany, but
yeah. Yes, and the it's quite a linear
plot as well, isn't it? It?
In that it has a start, a middle and an end, and the original
idea hasn't been forgotten about.
No, that's true. That's true.
Maybe that's because he wasn't writing it under such pressure.
If, if by the by the end you're, you're writing these, was it 26
a year or something? And so you build, you get a bit
of momentum with something like that.
But then there's then the pressure, which is I've used to,
I've used that idea. Oh, there's this idea where,
where are these ideas coming from?
So maybe it's the older rest and relaxation and you get a
different version of someone who obviously at times did not
handle pressure well due to some of his own tendencies, but also
his experiences in the war. So where he'd he reached the
point where he'd had enough, and that was a mortar shell bursting
over him. Yeah, So, well, that's true
because he'd written. So I think he said we've
established he'd written the script by April 57.
Oh, OK. And I think the Goon Show had
ended. The series Seven had ended by
that point. I'm pretty sure it had it looks.
Like Series 7 ended, it looks like 28th of March 1957.
Right. OK, so you could you could you
could argue that perhaps Spike had been working on this script
for the reason why here and there, bits and pieces at odd
times, but he had he he had time to do it.
He didn't. There was no pressure, like you
say, to produce a weekly script. So he wrote and refined it down.
And you know, there might have been several drafts of this.
I'm sure there probably was. We've got all the major
characters from the Goon Show, but this some of them are
slightly different in the sense that.
Well, Seagoon's not Seagoon. He's the on on Harold Bowels.
That is that. I think that's the key element
which in not only is there no audience and no band and no Max
or Ray, there's no Neddy Seagoon.
It is quite a it is quite a departure.
No the on bowels and Blue bottle.
Later on, when Blue Bottle turns out, he sounds lost without an
audience. Yes, because he he appears
twice, doesn't he? He sort of introduced when
Bowels meets Blood Knock, which there's there's an image to come
do with and and then later on just before the end.
Yes, because there's that. There's that sequence at near
the end where you've got Sellers playing a Bedouin shake, having
a conversation with Bluebottle. So it's basically Sellers
talking to himself doing switching between voices.
There's quite I noted there's quite a lot of that in this
episode, but some I think sometimes it's I don't know if
there's blood not to blue bottle or something.
But yeah, there's two or three examples of that happening.
And particularly with the the Bedouin shake, it seems really
seamless. So either sellers voice shifting
really well. Or.
They're really spending the money on the production and
making sure the editing's good. Yeah, but it, it kind of seems
to, it seems to the conversation seems to have the same sort of
energy and rhythm through it. There's not a jar where where
there's an edit in the tape or something.
And even if that's imperceptible, you'd get a
change in the the metre of the voices like I suppose.
Come in. Greetings, Shake.
I have brought the phantom money for a release of Honourable
Pals. Show me in the money.
No, no, we're not. I have been warned that the
Mistress of the East. I will show you half of the
money. All right.
Bring me my sword and I'll show you half of Mr. Bowles.
Did you notice? Because when we have the the
scene in Parliament at the beginning and you've got all
these mildewed, desiccated old Lords and ministers and you keep
hearing mini. Yes.
Sort of in the background, sort of prattling on about something.
Speak up, young man. Yes.
And then at one point you've got
Spike doing the Springs voice giving a speech.
And if you if you listen very carefully, you can hear sellers
doing men in the background. Oh, really?
No, I hadn't. I hadn't picked that up.
Yeah, no, no, nothing, just just like not even words, just sort
of the min noises, you know the mini noises and out of the 10 of
last year, yes, I have the separate fingers for men and
women. I'm trying to think if if there
were times when Milligan wasn't present for the recording, did
he did Sellers ever do mini banister?
I know he did Echoes, but because he was Speaking of
someone else, you could you could tell us.
Just let us keep continuing talking.
But he he's done. I'm sure he did many.
He must have done many. And I haven't listened to it for
a long, long time. The Met Riki rising episode when
Milligan was off I'll, but not very convincingly, I don't
think. I'll have to check that.
He must have done because there's, there's, there's mini
Bannister. She cooks, she cooks the Ravens
and a pie, doesn't she? So Oh, there you go.
I think so. There you go.
That'll be it. Yeah, just while we're on
Voices, Yes, it there's a scene at 10 Downing Street where the
on bowels is, Yeah, we're led to believe he's talking to the
Prime Minister, but then we hear the voice of Churchill.
Well, I wondered about that. Is he?
Is he Churchill or is he or is Seller sellers doing it as
Harold Macmillan? Oh.
I suppose, I suppose actually it could be, it could be Churchill,
couldn't it? Because I remember in the
international Christmas pudding, what's the Oh no in in operation
Christmas Duff when he's talking about and set the set the
pudding more on fire. I think that was meant to be
Churchill and I'm thinking about it.
That is, I think that's quite close to the voice that Sellers
uses in this one. Yeah, although by that point
Churchill hadn't been Prime Minister for a good by 18 months
or more, maybe more. But right, here's the thing.
Obviously you've got that voice. And then later on, we hear
Gladstone, don't we? Yes, because I thought, I
thought the Prime Minister had been introduced at some point
earlier as Mr. Disraeli. Oh, OK, But is it is glad it is
identified as Gladstone, isn't it?
Or am I it? Is late, it is later on and and
sellers is using a completely different voices again.
Right. Yeah, Sellers, you say.
Right. Sellers, I'm not sure what
sellers is doing that, but yes. Yeah, well, I think it's
sellers, but if the certain certain sources claim that spike
doing that voice and I I'm not buying it.
I'm convinced it's. Sellers it's or particularly in
the big where the I think the first time the needle has sunk
or has has got away and you get the the the Prime Minister
saying, am I afraid this just won't do?
Yes. Something a friend and I use
quite occasionally when something's gone wrong.
To me, that's pure sellers. Yeah, that's pure sellers.
Yeah, Honourable Bowers, I the obelisk is at the bottom of the
sea. I'm afraid this dust will do
find Gladstone. I was I was struck by how much
sellers is in this one. He sounds like this Gladstone
that he plays. He sounds like a cross between
Derek Nimmo and John Merrick, the Elephant Man.
Don't you think? Imagine that as a guest spot in
all gas and gaiters. Good Lord.
There's, there's a couple of little lines here which are a
little bit, I mean, the, the, the, the, even the name bowels
is a bit near the knuckle for 1957 for the BBC.
But in the in the parliament scene, there's a reference to
irregularity, irregularities. Oh, yes, Oh, yeah.
That's, that's Harry saying that in a northern accent.
What about the, the irregularities in Hyde Park
then? Because and, and then, as I tell
you, I was at home all Thursday night or whatever it was.
And I because wasn't Gladstone, we didn't Gladstone have a
reputation for going out and seeking ladies of the night,
bringing them home and telling them that they were fallen
women. What I actually did with or to
them. I I don't recall it it being it
being said it would be small, sort of yes.
So they're all there. There were, there's always been
question marks, so. Oh, actually, yeah, they're
they're absolutely right. But also just just getting back
to his voice because we're talking about sellers.
We think it's Sellers doing the the Gladstone voice.
Have you heard the actual recording of Gladstone's voice?
No, I haven't. That there exists, there exists
a recording from about 1890, something I think, or maybe
earlier, very early recording that Gladstone made.
And it was a recording, a message that he he sent to
Thomas Edison. OK.
And it sounds the weirdest thing because back then people didn't
know how to modulate their voice for for being recorded or
anything like that. So he's talking in the oddest
way. There's also William in this
episode is referred to as my old wrinkled retainer.
Yes, I because that's that's got that put me in mind of it's a
Henriette Rawlinson end. Yeah, 5th.
Stanchion wrinkled retainer. So I wonder if Vivian Stanchel
had heard that, or it might even have been a common thing in the
Army. Where they probably.
If things were being particularly ribald, ribald.
I don't know how you say that word, but I've never seen it
written down. But.
Yes, yes, it's, well, it's, I don't know.
I mean, I think the show, the show was repeated the one time
before BBC Radio 4 Extra came along.
OK. This was the reason why it was
repeated I think in 1969. OK.
So you never know when was, when was Sir Henry.
I thought maybe it was 70s, but I I think there's a strong
chance that Vivian Stanchaw would have been a Goon show
listener. I find it hard to believe he
wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But so he, he might have done or, but it's, I think it's also
one of those ideas that people can come up with independently,
even if, even if they sometimes you can if you think, oh, I
heard that program, but no, I don't remember that bit.
So they kind of come up with it spontaneously or independently.
Have you have you ever been getting back to this show?
Have you ever been tempted to order a continental art study?
You see that's that's this isn't the only goon show that appears
in. I can't remember who it is that
blood knock writes off to which which one it is that he he does
that. But yes, that's that's very much
it's a very old blood knock in that scene, isn't it?
Yeah. But I, I think, I think it's
very well done because yes, I've got time for a bit more work
because his bowels is arriving sideways at 11 or something.
Well, also, Sir, blood knocks in Alexandria, Yes, but previously
he was in Parliament. He was.
He was there during the debate in Parliament at the beginning,
wasn't he? Well, His, his, his voice was.
It appears that there is a. Large hole or gap in the intense
embankment wall. It only appeared recently and to
date nothing has been done about it.
Was that just default military voice?
Do you think that sellers decided on them?
It might have been, but in terms of say, who's who and where they
are, how many people does Valentine Dial play in this?
Oh, that's the point. Because Valentine dials in it,
but he's not really in it, is he?
He's. He's kind of in it right at the
start, which says what year it is.
And when I looked into the year, OK, only only a Wikipedia search
for the year, not much was happening in terms of war, which
is usually the the usual stock in trade of the goons or the the
outcome of the war or something. There's in terms of significant
things in the Empire. It was Queen Victoria was
declared Empress of India, Spanish.
She had title envy with her no cousin or nephew or whoever the
Kaiser was. Alexander Graham Ballard fold is
patent for the telephone, which apparently he'd kind of bullied
someone else out of if the key was to be believed.
And then we had the red triangle for the Bass brewery became the
first registered trademark. At that time, the Israeli was
the Prime Minister, not. Not Gladstone.
Not Gladstone, Yeah. He had been prior to that, and
then he was afterwards, like Gladstone, was succeeded by
Disraeli, who he then succeeded. The Israeli and Gladstone are
the two biggest names in terms of Victorian area prime
ministers, aren't they? They're the ones that everyone
still remembers. But, but does the Israelis?
Not really. Gladstone's known for, like you
say, for his his nocturnal pursuits and things like that.
And also he had a bag named after him.
Yes, which is mentioned in this episode, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. And there's I, I think, I think
there's a nice little bit where, see where Battles is packing and
he says Gladstone bag and Disraeli trousers.
What was I going to say? Disraeli had nothing named after
him, sorry. Apart from the trousers.
Yeah, well, I think. I think well, I'd I'd I'd stuck
an awe room with how many people Valentine Dial is playing.
Oh yeah, he. He gets because he's the one who
suggests, I don't know, some, some solution and so on.
Bowels. Oh no, Sir fuels.
Then he turns up later as Lord Harrods, and then he's Lord Fun.
So I think I've got at least three for him.
But he's not, he's not. He's not really used that much,
is he? Sometimes he seems to be using,
I don't know, as a as a foil or because he's he gets he gets
thrown in the gets thrown in the sea by by Admiral Crichton.
But yeah, because I think I think that's another reason why
I like this this episode, because he's got Valentine
dialing because I often enjoy the ones that he's in.
So I think it's the canal, which is one of my favourites he's got
because he adds a lot of gravitas, I think.
But he he's got his subtleties as well because in the canal he
says Neddy was one of my adopted songs by one of my adopted
wives. And just that little pause put
so much innuendo into that statement.
I've always really enjoyed that and the shit like the power of
his voice. I think is it.
It's in one of the Robin Hood episodes where he says to Dennis
Price, come partake in the side of ox, I'll have a boiled egg.
Such energy in that it's. Yes, yes, we've we've spoken
about Valentine's Day many times.
I think we've covered both of the goon shows.
He's been under part from one or two by the way, in the chat on
this Zoom call. Phil, I'm going to send you now
picture of the goons around Cleopatra's Needle, OK?
So have a look at that. Yes, yes.
So Milligan in so that's what so that so is that is that a TOPI
then or solar? Topi.
Yeah, because that looks a bit like a pith helmet to me.
I think it's more or less the same thing, isn't it pith?
Helmet kind of, unless a pith helmet is is more military topi
something different. But it looks like they've
brought that specially and they've taken three sets of, I
don't know, frock coat and top hat from whatever the costume
department is somewhere, because I can see Sellers is holding a
top hat. He's also wearing one.
Secam's wearing a top hat, but Milligan isn't.
Milligan's got the solar. Topi or whatever it is, yeah.
Yeah, Milligan's kind of channelling echoes a little bit
there, I think. Yes, I think that was almost his
default, wasn't it? Yes, yes, because there's that
episode of This is Your Life from 9:58 with Harry Seekim as
the as the recipient. And right at the, I don't know
if you've seen the footage, there's footage of Sellers and
Milligan right at the end of the show sort of coming onto stage,
onto the stage. Sellers is nominally dressed as
Blood Knock and Milligan as Eccles in this similar sort of
hat as he's wearing in that picture.
And they and they, they're carrying like a sedan chair for
for Harry to sit in. It's very, very funny.
And raising that bit as well. Right, they must have must have
been working out if they can lift Mr. Sikkim in a in a sedan
chair. Yeah, good luck.
There's a few. You talk about voices again.
You know, the the number of voices that I mean, Valentine
Dyle plays different characters, but they're all, they're all the
same voice, aren't they? Essentially.
But Sellers plays a few. I mean, Sellers plays a
character called Mr. Thong. I think I got it right.
I only kind of clocked that name very like yesterday or the day
before because because it it, it's because it's a voice he
hasn't used very often, certainly not in the goon.
I don't think it's a very common voice for him to use in the goon
show. Maybe maybe in was it swinging
with Sellers He's used something similar to that.
So I'm still swinging sellers. Yeah, it's kind of like a nerd
voice, as we would call it today, John.
Major type of voice I suppose. Oh, yes, it appears to be in one
piece made of grade of saying starring weighs about.
Let me see now. All right, so about 150 tons, I
should say. Be a bit of a devil to get back
to the old country, wouldn't it? Yeah.
Well, gentlemen, I've arranged for it to be given the buoyant
wooden jacket and towed home behind the S S Carthena.
Brief appearance by Grip Pipe as Lord Thin and and Moriarty is at
They're both at 10 Downing St. and Moriarty's stealing the
silverware. Oh yeah, I've I I made a note of
that because I think that's something that Milligan finds
really funny because in remember one of the BBC TV News readers
he had in the Q series, I seem to remember he'd get up and
suddenly either either his brief ghost would fall open and a load
of cutlery would fall out or, and Milligan's characters were
lots of times there'd be a whole load of cutlery would fall out
the back. Maybe because I because I
suppose the remember him saying that the grip pipe thin
character was based on the people he'd meet when he used to
fly around the world. And they talk about enormous
sums of money but be skint themselves.
Yes. And so they have sort of, you
knew that they'd have ragged underpants and holes, visible
holes in their socks and they'd not, they'd sort of leave a
flight having not paid for their drinks or, or if they run off a
tab, they'd suddenly disappear or something.
Yeah, So that really. And but you wonder, well, what
the Hell's. Oh, Moriarty was the model,
wasn't he? So he's posted the original
Eiffel, Eiffel Tower. God, how he's changed.
But it's the. It's the best version of
Moriarty, isn't it? It's the ragged starving
retrovers. Yeah, yeah.
A friend of mine, Mike, who like first sort of said to be, you
know, have you got any other these goon shows with with that
are good for Moriarty and say how it's from a particular day
onwards? And I thought, I haven't really
looked at it that closely because that's something that
this podcast has done is sort of I, I thought I liked the Goon
show, but I had not, I had not created lists or sorted out
favorite shows, particularly in, in my mind.
And then thought, oh, that one that come, that one came in that
series. That one's from another series.
To me, it's like the order of which I've listened to them.
So either I take them off the radio and then you, you're at
the point where you're buying the tapes or you're buying the
CDs. And I first heard the reason why
on a CDCDI bought. So I had no idea about this
particular goon show until I heard it and had my eyes opened.
Yeah, no, my reality ragged ass Moriarty is the best Moriarty
for. Sure.
The best for me, the best bit of this show, the best sequence, is
with the the on bowels dictating a letter to Eccles.
That's funny you should say that, because I've written that
down, I said. That's one of the typical
routines of Eccles failing to do something when he's been asked
to do it, like get out of this room.
It's not good. He's thank God he's gone.
Oh, no, I haven't or whatever. And there's part of me that
finds out really annoying and and yeah, this is your favorite
bit where? And I have to say when he says,
oh, you better go out and post that, that that's that is good.
Dear Ambassador, I will be coming to Alexandria next month
on state business. Signed on Harold Bells.
Read that back, will you my man? Read it back.
Oh yeah, it says, dear ambassador.
Oh yeah. God, My God.
Next one I will be. Oh, yeah, I will be.
That's right. Go on then.
I will be arriving in Alexandria next month.
Fine, fine. Sign on Huddle Bells.
Yeah, yeah, that's OK. You better run out and post at
Molly. Go at Molly at once.
Take that, you knit. Take this little post at once.
12:50 He won't find a post box. Now to prepare for the journey.
William. Where's that old wrinkle
retainer? William and the wrinkled
retainer. William, I'm going to Egypt.
Goodbye, mate, Come back here. I'm not going now.
I've only just sent the letter informing them of my arrival.
Oh yeah, I better point it. Again, there's a monograph to be
written in door confusion sketches in the Goon show.
The character supposedly has gone out the door, but hasn't
actually. That happened so many times as
in this. Yeah, the one I can think of is
in 1985. That's.
Right. Yeah.
With with Miss Fenut, yeah, just about just on the music.
It's all on disc and a lot of it's quite stirring stuff.
The ending play up music is I've I've got the name of it.
It's it's apparently it's called Blaze Away and it's a March by
Abe Holtzman. Holtzman, apparently.
It sounds like it's done. It's sort of done by all
veterans busking trying to learn across or something.
Yeah, it's it's. Although it's kind of at odds
with the grand theme of of this episode, it all seems to fit
really well I think. It's kind of a doubt.
A A A A a. What's the phrase?
Sort of a downbeat version. Downbeat.
Yeah, just to just to bring everything back down to earth
because you do hear everything. Peter, is that your shoe?
Or something. Oh yeah, yeah, you hear as the
music begins or is about to begin, you hear Harry, he says,
see you outside, then Pete got your car out there.
And then seller's seller says yeah, which I like.
Nice little nice little behind the scenes glimpse there.
Perhaps you have been listening to the authentic story of
Cleopatra's Needle. So I mean, we've, we've not
really, we've not talked about the plot of this, but there's,
you know, the, the essentially they, they think they've got a
bargain or the on bells thinks he's got a bargain getting this,
this edifice from Egypt for free, basically.
But but it ends up costing I think the the the total cost of
getting it across with salvaging and all the rest of it 180,000
lbs and eight shillings. Very important with the 8
shillings there. Yeah, I suppose it was worth it.
There's sort of doubt in Bal's voice and Lord Thun, he sort of
again, Valentine's Day, I'll put this stuff and says here every
penny or every penny of it, each time there there's a mention of
the cost. Someone will say, ah, but we're
getting the obelisk for free. You couldn't get one for for
anywhere near that price in in England.
For you. This may sound a lot, but
remember, we're getting the obelisk for free, and you could
argue that the obelisk is worth far more than a statue that Lord
Finn is going to come up with, but yes.
Yeah, there's a bit as well. Strikes me as kind of like
Sellers and Milligan riffing off each other.
It's on the boat and that Sellers doing is corn Cornish
voice Cornish. Or is that is or is it?
Is Bernard Miles set? Yeah, well, it's burned at Miles
voice basically, or Swede or whatever, whatever you want to
call it. But he's he's a crew member
who's shouting orders to another crew member who's off Mike and
it's Spike. Kevin Stench heave 2 now you'd
better heave 3 to be on the safe side.
There's starboard side and portside, but there's no safe
side. Sir, don't argue.
It's drifting off. Hurry, Scrawn, screw the
scrutiny spawn pure the mizzen iron crungle the wacktop Ranger,
crage the lager and worked all the carnabin Nile quirrles, the
trunker yard, all miles the Moby batten the hearts and Turlock
kneel. I don't know how he does it, but
he's all a soul willing, you know?
This goon show isn't on BBC Sounds the regular rotation I
noticed. No.
And yeah, it's because it could confuse people, perhaps.
I don't know. I don't know.
I think it's probably because it's not.
If it's not associated with a particular series, if it doesn't
have a running number, then they find it difficult to to
shoehorner in. Maybe.
Yeah. Oh, and they refer to Lord
Benteen, did you know? Yes.
Yes, he reads the list of things that have gone in the the time
capsule, doesn't he? Yeah.
And I believe more or less these are what went in the.
So there's not it's not even like a comedy list like Milligan
enjoyed doing, like in the, you know, the international
Christmas pudding and shows like that where series of
increasingly more bizarre articles because it's like
things like. Well, it says that it starts off
with standard foot and pound, which sounds a bit weird, but up
until very recently, there's been the definitive kilogram
held in Paris, hasn't there? And it's now, I think it's now
based on, I think it's now based on a scientific concept rather
than a physical thing now. But yes, that seems quite
there's kind of some or we're not without without realizing
that's actually what's in there that kind of had some meaning to
it, I think. So, yeah, because, because
there's also there's like the in the list, there's Empress of
India Rupee, a parchment copy of Doctor Burch's translation of
the obelisks, Hieroglyphic hieroglyphics, Portrait of Queen
Victoria, which does sound kind of goonish, but apparently true.
Yes. Well, it's, it's, it's a
substitute for cigarette or cigar times, isn't it?
Yes. That's right, Bradshaw's railway
guide. Mappin's sculling razor, which
is the Mappin brothers made like the early Gillette, I suppose.
Box of hairpins and ladies ornaments.
A hydraulic Jack that was used for raising the obelisk.
Map of London, Photographs of photographs of one dozen pretty
English women. Whitaker, Zolmanak and a copy of
the Times. The day the obelisk was set up.
Because that that that sounds entirely legitimate.
Particularly the copy of the Times.
Yes, yeah, it's just as I say, Yeah.
Interesting that Spike decided to more or less play it straight
that. Yes, because he, he, he was
obviously very, he was a student of history, wasn't he?
Yes. I think he enjoyed the classics
and he was, I think he was all he was nostalgic for a time he
didn't live in. I think so.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. OK.
So is there anything I know you know as always backwards and
forwards there, but is there anything that we haven't
mentioned you want to raise now? One of the something, a
curiosity where bowels gets captured by a what was it a
hostile Bedouin tribe? Anything.
Well, so has he gone on? Has he gone on by land because
the the obelisk has gone by C has has gone by C and there is a
fantastic long you said, and we have to we'll follow one week
later. We have to break camp smash
crockery and her elephants that accused me.
That was very good. And also I noticed that the
original ransom that's asked for him is 30,000 lbs, which
Gladstone thinks is good value for an Englishman.
But when Bluebottle hands it over, it's 20,000 lbs.
So. So who's pocketed that?
Or if they negotiated. Shaved blood, not shaved 10
grand off it. Well, maybe Blade Bottle's got
more side to him than we sometimes think.
Maybe a fascinating curiosity? Absolutely.
And I, I, I still really enjoy, I really enjoyed listening to it
again. So I was pleased to have a good
reason to do. It.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
OK, Phil. Well, thank you very much for
for, for joining me today. Well.
Thank you for asking me, it's been I've I've really enjoyed
it. I'll I'll just say as well, I've
kind of got out of the habit of doing it.
I must start doing it again, which I will do now.
Giving a plug to the Goonshoe Preservation Society, the GSPS.
Please join if you are not already a member.
It is very cheap to do so and you get 4 glossy full colour
Goon show news magazines every year.
Values. Yeah, I agree.
I've I've, I've subscribed having started listening to
this. So I think you might have given
their membership numbers a bit of a flip.
Yeah, I was in it as well last. Last issue you were, Yeah, it
was your illustrations too. Yeah.
And and also there's a book they've published, a book
they've put cobbled together that sort of does a deserve of
saying cobbled. But, you know, they've put
together some of the team of the GSPS have put together a, an
actual book of articles from the GSPS newsletter, Stroke
magazine, you know, stretching all the way back from when it
began in 1972. So it's a it's a, it's a sizable
paperback book just with it's just got loads and loads and
loads of, you know, reprinted articles and just stuff that's
related to the goons, which, you know, goon fans would find very
interesting and enjoyable. And you can order that on
Amazon. I think it's just called Goon
Show news if you search for that.
And I, although I didn't realize some of my because I used to do
the odd cartoon for it back in the early 90s and a few of those
are reproduced. And there, there you go.
So Phil. Yeah, great, great having you
on, great talk. And we will definitely talk
again. Excellent.
Thank you very much.