Peter, you play the part of this rather unhappy and disenchanted
unsuccessful lawyer. What, What's he called now?
Wilfred Morgan Hall? He never gets a brief, does he?
Nobody ever employs him. He hasn't had a brief of many,
many years, and in this case he got the dock brief.
Do you know about the dock? No.
Explain what is a dock brief. It means that criminals who have
no friends or money are in liberty to pick out from the
benches any lawyer who is sitting in court that day to
defend them, and that is called the dock brief.
They are the lawyers, remunerated on a modest scale
and attempts to defend the criminal and Wilfred Morgan
Hall. He's apparently been sitting in
the docks for many years, have never been chosen.
As it says in the script under the great window, my profile
drawn and learned, my glasses polished, hoping, not daring to
wave a little flag or cause any other disturbance that might
catch the criminal's eye. Praying.
Hoping that one day I might to receive the dark brief.
He gets it. And you have to defend Richard
Attenborough on the charge of murder.
That's right. He plays foul.
Herbert Foul. Hello and welcome to Goombard,
the podcast in which we look at the careers of Peter Sellers,
Mike Milligan, Harry Sikkim, Michael Bentin and increasingly,
David Lodge. And Roger, you're back.
My guest, Roger Stevenson, is back.
Hello. Dead.
Nice to be back, Tyler. Thank you for for Thank you for
coming back because last time you were on, we were talking.
What was it? The China story?
China story? Yes, a lot Controversial.
Oh yeah. So Roger, Yeah, you you agreed
to come back to talk about a film this time round indeed.
And we'll we'll jump straight into it because we've already
previously talked about your history with the the goons and
and what not. But.
But we're talking about a lesser known Peter Sellers film, which
is called The Doc Brief, AKA Trial and Error, which was the
American title which I think it's a better title.
I think it's a much better title.
I didn't know what a doc brief was until they explained it part
way through the film, but trial and error just sums up the
entire plot in one, doesn't it? So it's it does.
I don't know what I mean. The doc brief.
I know it's based on a John Mortimer play called the Doc
Brief. Yeah, but yeah, I didn't know.
I'm still not quite sure having watched the film again.
But it it's if if somebody said to me, do you want to watch a
film called The dot Brief or a film called Trial and error,
I'll be saying trial and error, please.
Exactly. Yes.
So this this film was released in 1962.
That's right. And what what was it about this
film that made you want to come on and?
Gab about it. Right.
Well, The thing is, I am no film buff at all.
I listen to you sometimes on this podcast and I'm amazed you,
you know, I'm 20 odd years older than you, and yet you've got
more knowledge of 1960s films than I have by a by a mile.
And there must be others out there listen who listen to it,
who know more than I do. So I thought I'd.
I'd choose one that no one has ever seen.
To my. I mean, you might know better
than I do. Has it ever been on television
in Britain? Oh, it will have been.
I I didn't share. It will have.
Been I've never seen it on television in Britain.
In fact, it has. I know it because it's been on
talking pictures. I was wondering about that.
I haven't seen it. I came across it when I first
got into Internet, like when first going to eBay, I had the
sort of usual buying frenzy that you get that sort of thing.
And I bought anything and everything.
You know, I've got on VHSA copy of The Big Freeze, Eric Sykes
and Spike Milligan. Which is not very good at all.
And one of the things I've got was trial and error.
I watched it and I just thought, why is this film not better
known? It is so good.
It's it's one of the last, because I only saw it for the
first time probably about two years ago, certainly within the
lifetime of this podcast, because I hadn't seen every
single Peter Sellers film, you know?
I've seen half of them. There's a handful.
In fact, there's one or two I still haven't seen.
I haven't seen and even the ones I've seen, I don't like them all
I don't I don't like. Oh, no, no, no, no.
There's there's some stinkers. But this one, it's a do we call
it a slight film? It's a it's an entertaining
film. It's a little gem, yeah.
That's the way I describe. It's a little gem and once you
discover it, you will enjoy it. I think it's it's it's it's well
worth seeking out and and watching.
I don't know if it's on YouTube or not, but if not it should be.
Well, you can pick up like you did and I and I did actually.
I think I got mine from eBay. You can pick up the, the DVD for
a couple of quid. Yeah, yeah.
And it's, it is, it is a little gem.
But I think I'm going to, I'm going to say this, I am going to
say this Roger. I think I prefer Sellers Costar.
I probably agree. Oh dear.
OK, I'll say this then. I have a theory that Peter
Sellers is at his best when he's either in an ensemble or he's
got someone another actor to compete with.
Yeah. Now here, Richard Attenborough
is outstanding. I I think Richard Attenborough
is a much maligned actor. He was brilliant actor when he's
young. He just got to watch 10
Willington Place, right? One of my favourites of all
time. Or even private's progress to
see how good he is. If if Sellers is up against
someone like that, I think he's brilliant, you know, or an
ensemble. I mean something like the Pink
Panther, he's brilliant and that because first of all, he wasn't
first choice and secondly, he's up on the bill and he raises his
game and films where he's not like that.
I don't think he's as good and this is a bit you won't like.
I don't think he's very good when he's only competing against
himself. I don't like him playing
multiple. Parts Oh, like Doctor
Strangelove. Doctor Doctor Strangelove is,
don't get me wrong, as the American president of that, I
think he's brilliant, superb. But as Doctor Strangelove, it
made me cringe back then. I mean, today is borderline
racist the character. Why they didn't get someone who
can play a German with a lot more so far at the top.
It needs some more subtlety. It's a subtle film.
What you don't need at the end is someone biting his hand,
trying not to salute like a Nazi and what have you.
If someone more subtle would make it a lot.
Better. Well, you know, do you know that
the actual they did, they filmed an ending for that film, which
they they then Kubrick sensibly changed his mind.
There was a custom pie fight at the end originally, yeah.
Look, I I really enjoy Doctor Strangelove and I know, but I
take on board what you're saying.
Yes, sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I think it's
a very, you know, you can't fight in here, it's a war room.
But it's that sort of subtle humour that I enjoy and then
finish off with this over the top character and if they got, I
don't know, Kurt Jurgens or someone who could play a German
and underplay him. I feel the same about the mouse
that Ward. What does it add to the film in
playing three parts? I don't know.
And I feel that if you had, you know, in the sequel, which was
not very good, you have Margaret Rutherford and Terry Thomas.
Well, you put them into the Mouse Award and Sellers has got
something to compete with, and he could make Tully into a lot
more interesting character than he does.
Yeah, there we are. Well, I don't, I don't mind the
mouse that roared. I'm just trying to think, I like
the film multiple sellers roles and the soft beds hard battles,
which isn't very good at all. There's fiendish plot of Fu
Manchu of course, which, but yeah, I know what you're saying.
It's a conceit, isn't it? It's a contrivance that they
often would get sellers to play multiple roles.
But in this film? He's up against Richard
Attenborough and the two of them knock sparks off each other.
Yeah, there's a there's a there's a moment in this film
actually where he threatens to play another character, Sellers,
and then he doesn't. If that makes sense, well, we'll
get to that you. Have to lead me to that because.
I yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so so this film it it had
its world premiere in London on the 20th of September 1962.
And as I always try to do, I just look at what else was
happening in the world of entertainment, showbiz or just
world events and the only thing that really caught my eye that
happened on this day, 20th, 20th of September 62 was the was the
first ever appearance of a television icon.
OK. And I'm going to give you a
clue. You mentioned you mentioned
Terry Thomas before. Yes.
And this, this television icon was very much influenced by
Terry Thomas. OK.
And if I was to say to you, children's television character?
OK, you're still. I'm still groping about in the
dark. OK, it was the first appearance
on ITV of basil brush. Basil Brush.
Oh, wonderful. Yeah, assistant, there was it
Derek Folds or? Well, no, it was OK.
It was before he had his. He was, because he was part of a
rap. The actor Ivan Owen, yeah,
provided the voice. That's right.
For for for Basil and Owen was part of the cast of ATV series
called The Three Scampis. Never heard of it?
No, it's it's, you know, one of those.
One of those also rands children's television and he
did, I think he did a number of different characters in this
television show. And it was one of the there was
a number of puppet characters and one of them was this Fox
character called Basil and there was also a hedgehog called Spike
Mcpike. I mean, nobody remembers the
three Scampi's, but the character of Basil took off was
very, you know, became very popular and then I think.
You know, subsequently got his own television shows and I love
Basil brush. That's one of my absolute
childhood favorites, that character.
Yes, it was. Well, one of my somewhat more
than childhood favorite. But yeah, he was wonderful, a
wonderful caricature and. Yes, yes.
So that was, but that was that was what happened on the 20th of
September 1962, as well as the world premiere of The Dock
Brief. We mentioned, so we've got,
we've got sellers as. Wilfred Morgan Hall, Wilfred.
Morgan Hall. I'm going to struggle with that
name it read for some reason, because I've got lots of notes,
but I always struggle, you know, remembering the name of the
character Wilfred Morgan Hall, and he is a barrister.
You've missed one of the best bits into me at the start when
the titles come up. You've got 2 budges and there's
Peter Sellers, Richard Attenborough and you sort of
connect Peter Sellers and Richard Attenborough, these two
budges sitting on a perch in a cage.
Well yeah, but then you think about it without going too deep.
2 budges caged. I know it is.
There's a lot of caged in the whole film, isn't it?
I mean, yeah, I'm not going to read too much into it.
It's not that sort of film, but there's certainly a lot of
caging going on in the film and a lot of enclosure.
So I love the two budgets. It makes me laugh each time I
see it. These two budgets side by side,
that gap between them and then Peter Sellers, Richard
Attenborough, I think it's great.
Yeah, where Richard Attenborough was nominated for a BAFTA.
Quite right too. For this, yeah.
You know, while watching the film, I kept thinking, who does
he remind me of? Who does he remind me of?
And then I thought he he's not as good an actor though, But I
thought that that role, that. Attenborough plays in this,
which is a character called Herbert Fowl.
The the actor Norman Bird could have played that character.
Do you know Norman Bird? I was thinking Donald Pleasance,
but there we are. Yeah, Donald, the Herbert fowl,
when this is drab and colorless and meek and and, but there's a,
there's a, there's a, there's an edge to Donald Pleasance even
when he plays very. Unassuming characters all,
there's a There's a undertone of menace, I think called
creepiness. An exciting meal has been ruined
by the presence of this liquid filth.
The filming took place in March and April 1962 at Shepperton and
around this time the actor Kenneth Griffith, who appeared
with Sellers in many. Only two comply, yes.
Yeah, and a number of other films as well.
Naked Truth, for example. They were, they were good
friends. And Kenneth Griffith had been
discussing with Sellers the possibility of appearing in ABBC
television production of Waiting for Godot.
Wow. OK.
And Sellers potentially was interested in playing the part
of estrogen. Yeah.
But then, as always or often with Sellers, he got cold feet.
And he blamed the fact that he was committed to filming the doc
brief and didn't have time to to do this TV adaptation.
OK, but but but but then sort of kept saying, but I could you
know, if you if you can wait if you can wait until I've done the
doc brief I might be able to do it right.
But anyway, in the end the BBC couldn't wait.
And so they got the actor Nigel Stock.
Instead, and and the the BBCTV adaptation of Waiting for Godot
went out on the 5th of February 1962, and Kenneth Griffith was
in it as well. Oh.
I haven't seen it with Peter Sellers, given his career a
different direction. Certainly he put a really good
actor up against him. He would have been excellent.
Well, I guess he would have been.
I guess he would have been acting up against Kenneth
Griffith. But it's it's it's I think
Sellers was just intimidated I think by the.
Yeah, yeah. Staying where?
He's not very familiar, yeah. Yeah.
And it's based the film is based on John Mortimer play and as
they were sort of discussing the film Sellers as as he was with
Fred Kite and I'm all right Jack, he was unsure about how to
play the character and what sort of voice to use and all that
sort of thing and originally. He wanted to play the role in a
North Country accent and in the end they persuaded him to adopt
A more sort of Home Counties accent.
Yeah, it it's it hasn't been wrong for it in my opinion.
He's got this is his not very good actor voice isn't it?
Which he uses Worthington Minge or whatever he uses at various
times. Failed actor type.
Well, that's that's an interesting, yes, that's an
interesting comparison because. As we'll see in this film, he is
essentially a failed he suffers from stage fright.
Yeah, I suspect some of his young days when he was touring
with his parents must have seen lots of people like this, people
with delusions of adequacy on the halls and what have you and
he, to my mind. That's what is best playing
people who think they can do it but really can't.
You know, it's Blue Bottle, isn't it?
It's yeah, it's all these people that him, Fred Kite, Pluso, the
the people who would love to be able to but no can't do it.
That's that's, yeah, Inadequate. Roger Lewis describes the
character of Morgan Hall as. Both hopeful and hopeless as as
grey washed as the prison cell. Walls.
Yes, yes. Hope, hopeful, hopeless is a
very good description of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For some reason, during the filming, John Mortimer wrote
that Sellers was paranoid that he was going to be rubbed out by
the mafia because of his his connection with Sophia Loren.
Right. This is 1962.
This is a good couple of years after the millionaire, as you
know. Yeah, he.
Kept a thing for Sofia Laurent for quite a long time, so he's.
Like, yes, Yeah, yes. Now the interesting thing as
well about this, so you and I both watched the DVD.
Yes. And I checked with you, didn't
I, how the length of the film that you were watching and mine
was 77 minutes, which think yours was as well.
Yes, it was, Yeah. And but officially, the film
runs for 88 minutes, so there's 11 minutes missing, and this is
presumably the American cut of the film.
I wonder if they cut out some of the early setting up or what
have you, which wouldn't apply to the stage.
You know that opening scene? Or not.
The opening scene saw the second scene really, where you see them
all outside the courtroom, chatting and things going on and
and what have you. I wonder if that was originally
longer, but because it didn't relate to American audiences,
they decided a lot of that had to go maybe.
No, no. 11 minutes as a hell of a long.
Lot. A lot of.
I checked with Mark Cousins, who knows about all these these
things, and he hadn't realized, so he was.
He didn't know either. So I've not been able to find
out what. What was cut now?
I I suspected, maybe wrongly, that it it occurred to me that
the, you know, when we get to the actual proper court scene
that the the the trial itself, it's I I suspect that a bit of
that was cut. Oh yeah.
But I don't know more. Bumbling by the Morgan Hall
character. Yeah, we just get the opening
bit, don't we? We get the prosecuting.
Barrister's speech And then that's about it.
So yes, yes, you could have had a bit more in there, couldn't
you? Yeah, but in any case it was you
know it's it's a short film. The version that we watched
anyway. But it was it was fine.
It's a Dimitri de Gronwald production.
And also did the Millionaires. Yeah.
And Mr. Topaz which was the Sellers directed, which isn't
very good. He was also executive producer
on a film I'm very fond of, which I nobody's really seen,
called Perfect Friday with Stanley Baker and David Warner.
Wow, haven't seen that one wonderful film if it is
available on Blu-ray and DVD, so I recommend anybody who enjoys
sort of heist or caper films or bank robbery films to to to seek
that one out. And David Warner is marvelous.
But I I mentioned to you before we started recording, I was
watching Straw Dogs last night because I do like Dustin Hoffman
and David Warner's in that film, but he's uncredited.
But he's probably, I would say he's probably, I don't know, the
fifth most important character in the film, but he's
uncredited. I don't understand.
Why? Plus he took his name off it.
Maybe. Odd enough, I watched David
Warner last night. I I recorded the Wars of the
Roses. That was on on Sunday, the BBC
adaptation of Henry the 6th through the Richard the 3rd.
And he plays a weak, pathetic Henry the sixth in it.
And how very good he is too. He's wonderful.
David Warner, wonderful actor, famously gets decapitated in The
Omen by a sheet of glass anyway, so it's directed by a chap
called James Hill who had worked with Sellers a few years
previously on a short film that is hopefully going to be
released on DVD one of these days.
There's a there's a number of or a couple of short Sellers films
from the 50s and there's there's one called Cold Comfort.
So he directed that. He also directed Born Free the
Bellstone Fox, which I'm quite fond of, and he also directed
Wurzel Gummage, which was another childhood favorite of
mine. So it seems this is an odd film
for him then, because one outdoors in Africa, one
outdoors, two of them outdoors in the UK, and here he is
claustrophobically in a prison cell.
So yes, it's quite a chance, isn't it?
Because obviously, yeah, as I keep saying, this is based on a
play, so it's it comes, you can tell that it's based on a play,
can't you? And the radio play at that.
You can see how well it would have worked on the radio.
Yeah. So as we indicated, we've got
sellers, we've got Richard Attenborough, we've got Beryl
Reed. Underused.
It has to be saved. But yeah, she's very good in the
part. But she doesn't do much more
than giggle, really. Does she?
Unfortunately no. And and and of course David
Lodge. Yes.
Can you think of any other films David Lodge was in?
The screenplay for this film is by Pierre Ruth, who had written
Mr. Topaz and produced it as well with Sellers, and it was
also a producer on The Millionaires and the music by
The Legendary. Ron Gray, Yeah, Any particular
favorite Ron greener? Compositions marvellous in this
one but of course we've got May grade Doctor Who Steptoe and
son. I mean the the the man was
brilliant. You should get Graham Lindsay
foot on one day Just talking about Ron Greener for about 3
hours. He I'm certain he knows a lot
more than I do. But yeah Ron Greener is one of
those. Like Wally Stott, but.
Unsung heroes, but certainly not unplayed.
Yeah, I love Tales of Unexpected.
The the theme. Music for that he did.
He was. He worked on Hoffman, which
we've discussed previously. It's a Square World Did Music
for Man in a Suitcase, which is that very distinctive theme tune
which was later parlayed into the TFI Friday,
and he also did the theme tune to a sitcom which has never been
repeated but still lives on in popular memory meets the Wife.
Freddie Frinton and Thora Hood. Yes, yeah.
And you know why that's still as?
A teenager. It was absolutely wonderful.
Oh, did? Oh really?
Yes, well, I've seen a few. Oh well, I've probably seen them
all, but all you can remember is her trying to be posh and him
saying yes, I saw one more cop. Sorry I saw one, an episode
where they would they had a daughter, a grown up daughter
who was about to give birth or something and there was a Turkey
involved. I don't quite know, I can't
remember. But it it it lives on in in
popular memory for for one reason.
Do you know what that is? Is it that German thing that's
on at every Christmas? Oh, with Freddie Frinton,
Jennifer. What's it called?
Dinner for one? Something like that, remember?
Yeah, it's not that. No, It's part of the lyrics of
Good Morning, Good Morning by The Beatles, Sergeant Pepper.
People running round it's. 5:00 It's getting dark.
Everyone you see is full of life.
It's time for tea and leave the white.
Yeah, so the film begins. We've got this.
You said about the wrong grain of music.
It's it's I wrote down in my notes that, you know, the film
begins. It's got this mournful Hovis
type music I put. Yes.
So just just pre credit sequence titles, we see Richard
Attenborough's character being led to a cell by Patrick Newell.
Patrick Newell. Yes, my mind.
There was always mother in The Avengers That's right and but
the film proper opens in a what is it like an anti Chamber of of
court something like that. It's.
It's the outside bit, you know. The courtrooms all come off
there and what have you and everyone sits around.
There's rows and chairs, yes. Like a waiting room, really.
And a doctor's in A&E department, but background and
you got the vicar from Dad's Army.
Yes, Frank Williams, well, of course has.
There's a very good connection there.
And as much as Dad's Army was there, Clyde Dunn, who was in a
regular and it's a square world. That's right.
Indeed, there's a couple of films I've seen Frank Williams
in playing completely, because you you always think of him as
the vicar, don't you? Well, it was playing.
You can't imagine playing a gangster, let's put it that way.
Well then, well, you say that there's a film, There's a one.
I mentioned Stanley Baker before.
There's a wonderful Stanley Baker film from 1966 called or
67 called Robbery, which is based on The Great Train
Robbery. And there's a scene inside a
prison, and you've got Frank Williams as one of the, you
know. Really.
A lifer, I suppose. I.
Don't know. I must have missed that.
I'll have to watch. It'll be again on talking
pictures, so I'll have to watch that again and see if I can spot
Frank Williams as a defrock vicar giving life in prison.
He's arranging for Frank Finley to be sprung from the prison.
And so yeah, so we've got him as one of the there's there's a
couple of barristers discussing chocolate for some reason.
So it's him. And there's a woman who looks a
bit like Ann Reed. Yeah, but isn't.
But isn't. And you've got a couple of
police constables flirting with each other, male and female
flirting with each other. And then we first see Sellers as
Wilfred Morgan Hall. What age would you say he's
meant to be? 50s, I'd have said, yeah, OK,
yeah. Bit older than you, yes.
And and he goes down into the cells to see.
And he looks quite distinguished and businesslike at that stage,
doesn't he? As if he knows what he's doing.
Yeah, we'll come to this, but, but at first you think that,
yes, he's probably a very experienced barrister who knows
what he's doing and then things start to come apart later in the
film. But the next scene, really,
things start to fall, I suppose. Yeah, doesn't.
Introduce himself, does he? Oh, that's right.
Because he goes down to the cells to see his client, who is
Herbert Fowl, played by Richard Attenborough, and he looks
Morgan Hall. Yeah, you actually see on his
face he looks mildly excited, which is unusual for, I suppose,
for an experienced barrister. He's worried because he thinks
Fowl is about to hang himself, because he's looking out the
window. Isn't he, now at the prison cell
bars at Epping Forest? Yeah.
Epping Forest. And he doesn't.
He doesn't do. He just says we're going to be
friends, which if somebody in a prison came up and said that to
you, you'd get the wrong idea, wouldn't you?
And not only that, a foul that he says to him.
Something like family, OK, you pay them, right?
He thinks the guy's. He thinks Morgan Hall is
mentally ill Well as I said Attenborough is this right away
you can you can tell he's a very, he's a little man isn't he
in every sense. And he's he's meek.
He's his concentration drifts and seems the only thing that
excites him or interests him really is budgies because he he
he used to run before he was arrested.
He ran a small seed shop. Never seen a seed shop, I have
to be honest. Well, I just.
I assume that you buy seeds from a pet shop.
That I did. I didn't think you there were
shops that just specialised in seeds.
It's a lot of people, their own budgies.
At first I thought it was a seed merchant who sold seed to
farmers and so on, but no, he he sells budgie seed and all right,
you had specialist shops a lot more back then, but I've never
seen a seed shop. There we are.
No. Well in any case.
And he's he's it. It's straight away you get you
get the impression that he's he's accepted the fact that you
know he's in prison. Nothing he can do about it.
He's got this kind of defeatist, yeah, attitude and and Morgan
Hall is energized by this whole. He gets angry at first.
Well, see, if I may say so, Mr. Cloud, who have adopted an
unpleasantly selfish attitude. Selfish.
Dogging the Manger. Dogging the Manger, Yes.
Unenthusiastic. You mean unenthusiastic.
Foul. I'm.
I'm sorry. Foul.
I didn't mean that. I'm sorry.
But there's so much of this about nowadays, so much of this.
Ready made entertainment. All these free billiards.
National Health television, not the.
There's not the spirit of. Fraud.
That they used to be you. You feel that foul.
Whatever I've done. I've always been mustard keen on
my work. I never lost a vision, though in
all my disappointments I've never ever lost the love of the
job. Morgan Hall had been a very
ambitious young man with all the privileges and a fine future
potentially ahead of him, but he hadn't.
But we we we come to find out he never got the brakes.
Really. Well, yes.
First didn't deserve them. Yeah, there's a first flashback.
Isn't there a charm? We'd already had Christmas
carols to sing by them because it yes, it reminds me a bit of
that where you see the two of them, you know, looking out
through the lattice windows with more bars but you know the the
when the ghosts or have you just that's probably just a familiar
trope that you've Yeah. Well, they use back projection,
which sometimes works better than in some scenes.
It works better than it does in others.
And we see a younger Wilfred Morgan Hall at his studies at
university. That's right.
So it's probably late 20s, early 30s, something like that.
Well. Music suggests that.
And the clothes, yeah. And he won't abandoned his
studies to enjoy himself like his friends.
We see, we see some of his friends down in the courtyard
sort of calling up to his rooms, encouraging him to come out, you
know. And then one of them is dancing
at Charleston, I think. Yeah, I think it must have been
the 30s look, thinking about it because, yeah, it must be
because reference to the war later on.
So yeah, that's true. Well, we see a female character
played by the actress Audrey Nicholson.
Now, did you, do you know anything about Audrey Nicholson?
Apart from the fact she has very little to do in this film, no,
now she's set up as eventually she's revealed as being AI,
suppose his girlfriend. Although I don't, I don't know
how how strong the relationship is.
But he said he was going to ask her a certain question in five
years time. So, oh, once he was successful,
he made some money. Yeah, but Audrey Nicholson was a
good friend of Sellers, OK, by association with her husband.
And now, ever guess who? Her husband.
It was, Oh dear. I'm not very good at this sort
of guessing thing. Paul Mortimer?
No Graham Stark. Oh, oh, all right.
OK. So the sellers and the Starks
would often go on holiday together and so.
Very close, weren't they? Yeah, she was in that
documentary about him. It was recently reshown.
She was, Yes, she was. She's still going.
She's still with us I think, yeah.
And we see this as this examination and and he gets his
results and he's quite happy because he's scraped home, but
he's delighted, doesn't he? Yes, a class degree, but he
quotes a bit of Latin which I couldn't quite make sense of.
I tried to but apart from paterfamilias and infragranti
delecto the rest of it. Well, Latin is not very good.
Joe, is there? No.
Well, Boris Johnson would have understood it.
He take the character takes Chambers and anticipates a
healthy legal practice, and then we we kind of see a passage of
time which which covers years where he just seems to be
spending his days doing crosswords while he's waiting
for a brief. But the crosswords are out of
sync. You know he's supposed to be
doing the times crossword, but you don't get them in order.
You know the the numbers double over the place.
I don't know if that's a mistake or just just kept it right.
I didn't notice it. We will do next time, right?
Yeah. The, as I say, there's obviously
a number of years past the Audrey Nicholson character we
understand was killed during the war.
And of course, Morgan Hall is relating all this to Herbert
Fowl in the prison cell. And when he mentions about this
lady friend of his dying in the war, Fowl cuts in and says it
was a tragic pity that his wife hadn't been called up.
And he says we must carry on about you.
Of course she hasn't done at all.
That's the point which he finally tells him.
He's a barrister. I've had all this preamble about
his life. He's such a rather self obsessed
person, shall we say. He's gone this far with his.
Client. And now finally tells him I'm
your barrister. Well, he's never had.
He's never been in this position before.
I suppose so he panicked and and then Herbert fell.
He's in. We we come to understand that
he's in prison because he killed his wife and and fell freely
admits it. He freely admits it.
Yes, I did it. And who killed her?
Me and Morgan Hall hesitates and Sellers does that.
Wonderful eye darting thing that he did so well and and you can
see his the the cogs turning in his head and he's thinking and
he's he's there's there's a look of panic almost on his face and
then he tells foul he said he tells FAL that he's a person of
very limited intelligence. I've all the respect to the
world for your opinions, but you're a man of limited yes, you
think you killed your wife. And and FAL just nods his head
in agreement. That's the thing, Fal never
There's never a flicker of any real emotion on his face.
There's never any other than just sort of resignation, if you
like, to his lot. They deserve each other, don't
they? They do and and this is where
Morgan, who reveals that Herbert Fell is his first Doc Brief.
And luckily we then get a little bit of explanation as to what a
Doc Brief is. So criminals who have no money
or friends or family are entitled to choose a barrister
at random, and the the barrister is recompensed on a modest
scale, he. Says for people with no money
and no furniture. Fortunately, you're one of them.
Yes. Successful lawyers run a mile
before the dot brief is given away because they don't want
that sort of that sort of business.
But the regulars who aren't successful, the the, you know,
the losers, I suppose you'd call them that.
They they sit and wait and hope that they will be chosen by the
accused, and John Junkin is one of them.
And they will. They will sit there in a row,
sort of smiling, winking, cajoling, trying to catch the.
Yes, without being obvious about it.
They're trying to track their attention.
And you think Morgan Hall's been there for about 30 years?
The law of averages? Surely to God he must have been
chosen before Before now. All right.
And he convinces himself it's because he's sat in the wrong
position. Well, that's right, because
Tuppy Morgan always got the plum seat.
But he was off one day. He was off this day.
So Morgan Hall took his seat and foul chose him.
And then and he believes Morgan Hall deeply, deeply believes
that it was fate that you know that foul chose him.
Tuppy Morgan not being there, you know, Don't.
He's ill or or dead. Not a lot of concern for his
fellow barrister there, but yeah, foul then burst his bubble
as he as he does on a number of occasions in this film.
He just basically admits he closed his eyes and pointed at
random and and Morgan was a bit put out by this and said it
might have been kinder if he kept me in ignorance.
Of that try to remember I'm a fellow man, my hopes have pinned
on you. It's one of those moments that
there are a few in the film where Morgan Hall has to come,
where foul forces Morgan to come face to face.
Of the fact that he's not very good things aren't working for
him accidentally and and and in a humorous way that he's so down
to earth foul. No, no, no no.
Morgan Hall's so much head in the clouds every now and again
he, just as you say, punctures the bubble rocking was crashed
back to Earth. Well, he's a dreamer, isn't he?
Morgan Hall. Yeah, he is.
And whereas Fowl has never had an original thought in his life.
Exactly. Dreams are beyond him.
Morgan Hall starts taking notes and asks about Doris's nature.
Richard Attenborough bitterly says that his wife, because
because I think Morgan Hall wants to, once failed to confirm
that his wife was a real harridan.
Your wife was a bitter, unsympathetic woman.
Yeah, he's got every, every cliche trials in his head.
Doesn't he walk? You know, he seemed every time
and every time fails. No, no, it's not like that.
Yeah, that foul just abuses him of the of the notion he says
that she she laughed all day and night and we have another
flashback. And so in this Morgan Hall and
Fowl travel back, if you like to the the foul home and we see
Herbert Fowl arriving home after work one evening and Doris is
listening to something comedic on the radio and Gulf Waring and
and pulls Herbert's hat down and tries to get him to laugh.
And he's just just, he's just got this permanent hand dog
expression I had. The line about she She got all
sorts of jokes. Jokes from Christmas crackers,
she'd say from year to year. And she dropped them out in
August. Yeah, she laughed at everything.
After every. I mean she she is irritating.
When you see her you think for goodness sake woman, give us a
break. I just got home from work.
She is quite irritating, laughing all the while like
that, I have to say. I couldn't always laugh.
She'd be doubled up across the table, gasping as if her lungs
was full of water. And in fact, I've shown so many
wild pics about the cereal for the Sunday.
Papers dig this. Benny written The Corn Spreaders
with Wild Oats. It really begs the question
because it's not a It's not a recent thing because even on
their wedding day, because you see Frank Thornton as the
wedding photographer. Yes.
Another Is the Square World regular?
Yes. Thornton the The photograph, the
wedding photograph, the barrel Reed character.
Doris is blurred because she's laughing so much.
She's right, Yes. An awful joke about their
surname. We're cock and hen.
I mean the best one in the world.
It's not that funny. No Morgan Hall.
I wrote this down and I think there's a lovely line, Morgan
Hall says to Foul. There's a certain Sunday evening
appearance to you. Yes.
I don't know what that means. Well, I took it to me.
You know what? Sunday evenings are always quite
depressing, aren't they? Oh, right.
Yeah, I understand. Yes, of course.
It's it's Tony Hancock's Sunday afternoon thing, isn't it?
Well, you've got the Sunday fear thinking.
About work the next day, there's no there's no nothing going on.
There's no shops open. Of course, at that time on a
Sunday, the Songs of Praise or what have you, yes.
But of course, they didn't have a television, did they?
They only had the radio. Oh, didn't notice, did they not?
I didn't. Notice.
No, he didn't want the television.
Oh no, there's too much of this laughter and what have you.
True, it was television for it, but but you get the impression
that she wears the trousers, so I'm surprised that she hadn't
sort of insisted on it. You did.
She'd have been all over television, Doris.
Yes, you'd have thought so, But then again, I don't suppose
Currency Merchant earned a lot of money.
Probably not. He's got an Avery at the back.
Oh yes, for budgies. And he identifies with budgies.
And that's the only time he's really, truly happy is when he's
with his budgies. But she she's taught one of his
budgies to say don't look so miserable it might never happen.
Oh my, that is so, so cruel, isn't it?
It's her favorite saying to him. Yeah, the budgie got this.
You can understand at that point why he contemplated violence.
It's not nice at all, is it? There we are.
And shall we sound the Dave Lodge klaxon?
Oh yes, I love the idea that The Lodger played by David Lodge.
Yeah, no, it's it's a performance by David Lodge.
I've never seen him do before where he's just basically the
the male version of Beryl Reed. In this he plays Frank Bateson,
who's this new lodger. He's an ex copper.
They called him The Scream of the Station and he immediately
bonds with Doris, with Beryl Reed's character.
They are, they are basically two peas in a pod in terms of
everything. Makes them laugh.
And. And immediately Morgan Hall
jumps to the conclusion. You know the cliche.
Aha, they were lovers, weren't they?
You can, you know. Again, he he only thinks in the
cliches, doesn't he? Yes.
And we see, we see Dave Lodge, you know, messing about with
whoopee cushions and a false beard and him and Doris are
dancing around the kitchen and and Dave Lodge, they're both
very good. Dave Lodge is very good in this.
Two nice kidneys. Lovely.
Oh, look at that. Yeah.
Lovely pair of eyes. Got my horoscope in there.
Come on, make yourself come. When were you born anyway?
September the 1st. Don't tell us you're a virgin.
Come on, what did you say? Laughter leads to love.
The weekend offers much scope to your cheerful disposition.
The touch of romance is in store on Saturday morning and and all
the while you've got Richard Attenborough sort of sitting in
at at sidelines just looking thoroughly miserable.
Reading Caged Birds Yeah wonderful line by Beryl.
Reading it where when they do one of their dreadful jokes and
she says he can never see anything subtle.
I think, I think it was flower falling on her head or something
like that, you know? Oh yeah, I mean, that would
drive. If somebody did that to me, I
would be furious. But she laughs at it.
She's quite happy. And Richard Attenborough says I
went to bed early and left them with the light program.
And it turns out that Fowl hopes he's pinning all his hopes on
Frank running away with Doris, the two of them running away
together. Yes.
He walks out to the Avery slowly and and and I just saw that when
he first put his knee under her. He's hoping something's going to
happen and seller's face then is wonderful, this sort.
Oh no. Yeah.
And really, one of the few moments of sympathy that he
shows in it, you know, Oh no, yeah, yeah.
Just a little fleeting expression, which of course
Sellers was. Brilliant art.
Just brilliant art. Yeah.
All Fowl wanted was just to be left alone.
Silence. Apart from the twittering of his
budgies, that's all he wanted. And and he, as I say, he was
hopeful that this would happen and he gets home one evening and
he walks into the hall and this slip is on the stairs and he
thinks a up. Here we go.
Catch them in the act or whatever goes up and Frank
Bateson's room is has been cleared.
All the stuff's gone and he goes down into the kitchen and
there's Doris ironing for once, not laughing.
No, and she tells. Yes, she tells Val that she
kicked out Frank Bateson for trying it on.
She says. I'm too respectable for that.
There's. Safety in marriage?
Yeah. Strange little and I guess be
better treated in those days. You know, a woman living in sin
would not be very popular in the neighbourhood.
I suppose that's what she means by it.
Suppose so. Yeah.
But you wonder how they got together.
What? What was the attraction between
the two, Really. I.
I don't know. An attraction of opposites, I
presume. But yeah, she felt sorry for her
maybe, I don't know. But she.
Thought she could cheer him up in life, Who knows?
Yeah, so. So internally, Fowl is reeling
by the fact that she's kicked out the lodger because there
goes his his last hope to get rid of Doris and he he kind of
staggers over to a chair. He sits down and there's a
whoopee. Cushion.
And that's like the final straw. And he cracks.
And you don't see anything, but you just hear her screaming and
budgies sort of flying into the air.
Well, the the music there, there's some sort of jazz going
on. It's brilliant the way it builds
and builds and builds and then suddenly cut to the birds
fluttering about the cage. Lovely bit of film making that,
yeah. So he killed his wife because
she wouldn't leave him. Yes, in those days, of course,
divorce was very much frowned upon.
So yeah, he sees it as his only option.
Yeah. And Morgan Hall is obviously
seen and heard all this, and he's quite despondent, you know,
because what he's fouled as such an unsympathetic character.
He says that, doesn't he? I can see you're an
unsympathetic figure, yeah. But then he hits upon an idea.
Because he's the eternal optimist, Morgan.
Like a brilliant stroke to save you.
Yes, the surprise witness. The surprise witness.
And this is where we get this sort of series of fantasy series
courtroom fantasies. Yes.
Yeah. And it's nice because the the
set that they're on, so they're in a prison cell and then they
walk out of the prison cell set and into a courtroom.
Yes, and he and Morgan Hall's got his wig on and he imagines
himself in court addressing the judge.
But the judge in this fantasy is foul.
Foul was cast as the judge on his head with a towel on his
head. Wig Foul looks very put out
about it. It's not what he wants to be
doing at this, no, because it requires a bit of creativity.
Doesn't. It, Morgan Hall tries to tell.
Tell me how horrible this judge is.
He draws a cliche judge, and he served in the Great War, giving
prisoners long sentences. Morgan Hall asks the judge if he
can introduce a surprise witness, and foul just says
yeah, yes. Fine and and and Sellers or
Morgan Hall is put out by this and he says an irregular
application for a surprise witness should elicit A refusal
of permission by the judge. What does foul do?
Does he? Does he just?
No, you cannot, Morgan Hall persuades him.
Then he says you don't know what he's going to say.
He could say he's innocent. He could say he's guilty as
you've already believed. And so he gives him permission
And of course, Morgan Hall is performing brilliantly as a
barrister. Oh, his fantasy barrister is
wonderful. Yeah, he's sharp, he's quick
witted. And then the surprise witness
appears. And again, it is foul as a
surprise witness. Yes.
He can't even think of a name for himself.
No, he has to think of a name and it takes the longest time to
think of Martin Jones and and as soon as he says Martin Jones, he
looks incredibly proud of the fact he's come up with his
brilliant name. And Morgan Hall thinks it's
wonderful. Yes, he starts to get foul,
starts to get drawn into these fantasies, doesn't he?
Roundabout. Now he's you can see he's
actually started to enjoy being Martin Jones and does actually
get into it and. He smiles, yeah.
For the first time in the film, he actually smiles and I wonder
whether there is a Martin Jones in his life, like a friend or an
acquaintance perhaps? Getting the impression there's
no one, really. No, I suppose not.
And and Morgan Hall cross examines Martin Jones and where
was foul when the crime took place.
And Martin Jones says he was at my house all evening playing
whist. Playing whist and just like
that, it's an open and shut case.
Herbert Fowler's Entirely innocent not Guilty.
That's right. And Sellers does the thing with
the with the the gown rapping about himself.
That's right. Yeah.
And. And it's how.
Comes out the wonderful line and reduce all police officers to
the rank of PC and he laughs the first.
I mean, he actually says something quite funny and laughs
for the first time in the film. Yeah, fantasy is.
He's actually enjoying it. And then we we're back in the
prison cell then, and Morgan Hall is is delighted with the
way things have gone and then foul with his usual
tactlessness, has to remind him that there's actually no
surprise witness that they've just made it up.
You're a very good fellow, but don't interrupt my thinking, he
says. Morgan Hall says it's
remarkable. Without any legal training at
all, you've put your finger on the one fatal weakness in our
defense. You get the idea now why he
hasn't got any briefs. Yeah, and then he said.
And then he thinks what they should try and do is is frame
Bates and frame the lodger. Oh yeah, he says.
It'll come to me in an illuminated flash.
Hard brain work and and you know, he says, Morgan Hall says
my life depends on this case. His life.
Yes, his life. I mean fouls literally does.
Depend on her foul because of that time.
But I hung for it. Of course he would, Yeah.
And we get we we're back this fantasy courtroom where David
Lodge is there as Bateson and and he's being tied up in knots
by the wonderful cross examination by by Morgan Hall
and. Bowl is is the shocked breathing
from the jury? Oh, yes.
You know, is he really getting into these fantasies he's
actually enjoying? Morgan Hall says you and I are
learning to mocking together splendidly.
Morgan Hall basically pins it on Bateson, he said.
You were enraged that Doris wouldn't go away with you, so
you murdered her and case closed.
Really simply. And then again, again, back in
the cell. Foul has to keep bursting his
bubble A. Little Hitch, he said After
Bateson left the house, he was arrested for pinching an alarm
clock and a neighbour that actually saw Doris alive 2 hours
later. So they know that he can't have
murdered. Her.
Yes, and Morgan Hall says. All my life I've stood up to the
winds of criticism. I'm quite used to it.
I found that a little bit jarring because Bates, an ex
policeman stealing an alarm clock and half a bottle of port.
I thought he could have found a better excuse.
Well, that's the thing. Because he he stole them from
the fouls. So we must assume that Doris
shopped him to the police. Did she must have done?
No. No, no, no.
Because you don't just get arrested for just walking around
in possession of an alarm clock and a pile of Sherry, do you?
Anyway, And again, Morgan Halls trying to desperately trying to
think how to you know how to breakthrough this case.
Tuppy Morgan always told him to question any medical evidence.
Go for the doctor. Go for the doctor.
But he can't. Do that fantasy because he's
interviewing himself. Well, that's the point when I
said earlier there's a there's a bit where Sellers almost plays
another character and then doesn't.
Yes, because you see Morgan Hall trying to summon up a doctor in
the dock and it's himself, it's it's Morgan Hall.
Essentially cross examining Morgan Hall.
Richard Dattenberg plays several roles, is he not?
No. That's a misconception, Peter.
Actually, neither of us play multiple role roles.
A multiple role. That would be right, wouldn't
it? Yes, anyway.
Have a multiple role for breakfast?
No. Multiple role in Barber,
multiple role in barter? Yeah.
Morgan Hall suggests that Doris died of a heart attack.
It could have been brought on by a fit of laughter at a joke on
the wireless. I don't see.
I don't get that because she didn't die of a heart attack she
was murdered by. Foul because this is a desperate
lie of defence, isn't it? Yeah.
The funny thing is, foul thinks it's wonderful and applauds him
at the end of it. Yeah.
And Morgan was like, you keep putting these difficulties in my
way. Yeah.
In the fantasy judge foul attempts to sum up.
And ultimately the jury which is foul finds foul not guilty And
to to to massive chairs and cameras going off and and all
sorts. And then, and then Morgan Hall,
they they stride back into the prison cell.
And Morgan Hall was imagining, now that, you know, he's the
most successful barrister in London, he's, he'd been offered
1000 Guineas to divorce a Duchess.
Yeah, he's been. He's been transported upon a
current of whimsical wish fulfillment, and he's loved
every minute of it. And he says, what a wonderful
new life you brought me. Yeah, But then he's brought back
to Earth with a thump. Yes, because Patrick Newell
walks in and says that foul has to go up for the trial.
And Morgan more literally goes in the dock with him.
Yeah. And we see.
So, yes. So we we see the actual trial or
the beginning of the actual trial.
You've got to, the judge reminded me, I don't know if you
felt this. The judge at first I thought was
that it can't because he's too old.
He reminded me of Ivor Cutler and and we see there's obviously
the prosecuting counsel and there's there's Morgan Hall
who's the defense counsel. And Morgan Hall was totally
unprepared. He's scrambling around for bits
of paper. He's he's jittery.
He's just completely out of his depth.
And tries to open his defense before the prosecution said a
word. Yeah.
And the prosecution? The prosecuting counsel is
called Perkins and it's an actor called Tristram Jelly Neck who I
recognized. And I had to confirm it on IMDb,
but I thought I'd recognize it. He played.
Are you a fan of 1 Foot in the Grave?
Oh, very much so, Yes, he There's an episode called Warm
Champagne which is 1 where Margaret very nearly has an
affair. It's the one where she comes
home and Victor's in bed with an 80 year old woman.
Not not deliberately, but anyway, the character, the
character that Margaret almost has an affair with is someone
they met on holiday and a character called Ben.
And he is played by Tristram Jelly Neck, who played Perkins
in this It's a wonderful episode.
Warm champagne. And by the way, I don't know if
I've mentioned this before on this podcast, but I am a huge
fan of 1 Foot in the Grave and I have appeared on the 1 Foot in
the Grave podcast talking about the episode Wisdom of the Witch.
And that was from a couple of years ago.
So it's 1 foot in the podcast if people want to check that out.
I was on that talking about Wisdom of the Witch, I think in
February 2021, I think something like that, if you want to check
that out. Sorry, a little bit of self
promotion there. Was two years younger.
Me at school. Was the same school was two
years younger. It was sort of someone that
people knew. I didn't know him personally,
but it was, it was someone known about the places.
Oh, OK, Quite a character, yes. Well, obviously I had him on the
show. Very nice man.
He is. Yes he is.
And as you say, 1 Foot in the Grave is absolutely phenomenal
writing and acting. Tristram Jelly Neck, which is
what a what a name. I saw him.
It was a great adaptation of the Robert Harris book selling
Hitler on Channel 4. He was in that.
He was in whoops. Apocalypse.
David David Renwick again. Morons from outer space.
Top secret out of Africa. Lots of things.
And anyway Perkins is the prosecuting counsel who's
clearly all over his brief on top of everything, you know,
totally professional, begins the prosecution and the the the
essentially the character assassination of foul OK And
then it. And then it.
Just the cuts. Doesn't even know who Morgan
Hall is, is he has to be told by the clerk who it is.
Oh yes, name wrong. Morgan Hull.
Yeah, and he's withering about him.
He embarrassed that you should know better and, yes, almost
sees Sellers as Morgan Hall shrink.
Well, the scene then abruptly cuts, and This is why I wondered
whether this was partly, you know, cut out of the DVD version
or the American cut. But we see a despondent Wilfred
Morgan Hall leaving the courtroom at the end of the
proceeding. But it's also done for dramatic
effect, isn't it? You don't want to see too much
of The Trial because of the scenes that follow you.
You want that true? That's true.
It may be absolutely. It may well be that this is
exactly, you know, as this was as in the original cut.
I don't know. But he's lost the case.
We know that He goes off, he he sort of wanders off to a pub and
he keeps rerunning the case over in his mind what he should have
said. I should have said that I should
have, what I should have done, I should have, you know.
It was absolutely, 100% more powerful in his fantasy, but he
crumbled under the glare of reality.
Really. Exactly, yes.
And in the pub he asked for half of mild, Yeah, which is
appropriate. Yes.
And he gets half, half of his half mild spilt on his eye.
Now, is it by Perkins? Is that Perkins?
I was going. To ask you the same question
yeah I think it is him because for a start he's recognised by
the barman. It's obviously he's it's the pub
next to the court so he yes Perkins must be there as a
barrister quite frequently asked for the usual and knows the the
barmaid's name and what have you so I presume so and he's sort of
very matter of fact getting along with it and Morgan Hall
was dejected and. Was it?
He says. Poor Fowle.
He'd be taking this very much to heart, yeah.
Yes. And I'm thinking might be
presumably I think it was it's the morning of the execution or
anticipated execution. I wasn't too sure what it was.
Is it just Morgan Hall visiting him after?
Well, you see the big you see the front of the prison and you
see the the notice board, and I think they post when there's an
execution. When there was going to be a
hanging, they would post something on the notice board
outside the prison gates. I think that's what this is
meant to imply, that it's the morning of what's supposed to be
Foul's execution and Morgan Hall is there, but foul isn't in
there. Foul comes back into the cell.
He's been He'd been invited by the governor to go and see him,
and it turns out that the Home Office has issued A reprieve.
Yes. That's a government department,
isn't it? Says Phil.
Phil's kind of happy about it, but he's, you know, you know, he
manages a smile. But Morgan Hall?
You'd think Morgan will be delighted on his behalf.
But Morgan Hall just looks disturbed and he said.
This is the point where the relationship changes, isn't it?
And suddenly Morgan Hall's sitting down, looking up at
Foul. Who's standing?
You know and. And you can see all these
fantasies all ending here, can't you?
It's what do you face the reality of actually what
happened? But why should you be free?
Well, it seems that the trial was no good at all.
No good. But why?
No particular reason. Mr. Farr.
There must be a reason. Nothing happens in law without a
reason. Well, you won't care to hear.
Tell me why This governor, who knows nothing of the law, should
have called our one and only trial together.
No good. Mr. File, you must answer me.
My legal career may depend on it if I'm not to have wasted my
life on useless trials. You really want to know?
Yes, Yes, yes. Well.
He said that the the barrister they chose for me was no good an
old crock in his words, that he never said a word in my defence
and so my case never got to the jury.
He he said the whole thing was if it's so null and void but I'd
better be careful in the future. So yes.
So we we then learned that it looks like Morgan Hall
completely dried during the actual trial suffered from the
the legal equivalent of stage fright.
I didn't say a word. Yeah, in defence of his client.
Absolutely crushed at this point, doesn't it?
Absolutely crushed and it's foul that cheers him up.
At this point, your artful has paid off the dumb tactics.
It saved me, yeah. If he'd been if I'd had a
barrister who'd asked questions and made clever speeches, then
I'd be dead as mutton. Yeah.
Oh, I love the way he he presumes it was deliberate.
Yeah. Oh, yes, that's right.
Yeah. Fell thinks it was.
It was. Yeah.
Planned. Yes.
Intentional. And then And then Morgan Hall,
defeated, completely defeated, says go back to your birds and
and and they both leave the prison with.
He says. I don't suppose it's likely
you'll ever marry again or commit some trivial offence.
Oh yeah, because he's desperate to work with him again.
Well, yeah, they've got a friendship, haven't they?
You know, they're sort of an odd couple, if you like.
There's sort of, that's it, the last scene where they walk off
over Westminster Bridge. Together, he says.
After, you know, after you and they walk off over Westminster
Bridge. It's delightful because halfway
across Morgan Hall gives this little skip.
Little dancing skip, that's right, again.
And foul joins in. Well, you think, OK, the the the
two lonely men, yeah, probably have no friends and that they
are now friends and they can perhaps continue to have these
little fantasies. Yeah, yeah, they can.
Yes, exactly. It's it's it's that end bit I
just think is wonderful. Just that little skip on the
bridge. Yeah.
Oh, brilliant. And did you notice the end
titles, the budges? They're facing the other way and
they're right close together. Oh, it didn't pick up on that.
Yeah. All right.
And they're really close, so Absolutely.
But it's a jamber film. Anyone that hasn't seen it?
I just. Go and watch it because the two
of them give such brilliant performances and I often cite
Roger Lewis on this podcast. Some people love him, some
people hate him and. I couldn't get on with the book.
I got to be honest, I tried to read it on your recommendation
and yeah, I found it difficult. Well, yeah, I enjoy it.
I but I I read between the lines a lot of it, if you know what I
mean, and it is useful for the for information.
Yes, factual information as well.
It's got almost too much factual information.
Yeah, yeah. But Roger Lewis, in his book on
Sellers, you know, he talks about this film a little bit and
and it's just coming back to what we said at the beginning of
the conversation he says about this film.
He says the film is full of cages, locks, bolts.
When the sunlight shines on a wall, the striped shadows form
bars. Salas is wonderful, oscillating
between Borgan Hall's hopefulness and hopelessness.
And when he says, oh foul, the wonderful new life you've bought
me, we know that he'll screw up in his big day in court.
And he duly does lose his papers, drop his legal tones
with a clatter and forget his speech.
He dries like an actor, and he's derided by the judge and jury.
I only had to open my mouth, he says later and pour out words.
And Lewis goes on to compare Morgan Hill.
He says Morgan Hill could be seen as a sombre version of
Pluso. Yes, Likewise.
Yeah, he learns to live with ridicule to such an extent,
indeed, that ridicule becomes a consolation.
So yeah, I mean it's it's it's pretty one of the lesser note.
Well it is one of the less known Sellers films but it's a it's a
great character and and Sellers in black and white is.
Rarely off kilter, yes. And playing older men, yes.
And as I say, people with delusions of adequacy.
Which again is close though, isn't it?
He's brilliant at that. Yeah.
I think it's a film that everyone should seek out.
If they haven't seen it, it will turn out probably on talking
pictures TV again at some point soon.
I hope so. People who listen to this
podcast go and give it a look because it is well worth it.
And this is a film you can watch more than once and still get
quite a lot out of it. You know, despite the you know,
once you know what's going to happen in it.
We've given away the plot, shall we say it's still worth watching
just for their performances, Yeah, Richard Attenborough in
particular. Yeah, I'd say both of them.
I think it's one of the sellers performances that I really love.
That Fred Kite and some of his old men and what have you when I
like him best. The wrong box.
Another one, Yeah. And and Battle of the Sexes.
He plays an older man. He wants to the Toradors.
I mean also the Toradors. Have you seen that?
Many years ago we had done. It's one I watched as a teenager
so and I haven't seen it since. If it's on, I shall watch it.
Well, it's again, I'm, I haven't seen it for years and it's when
I should revisit, I think because I think I will get more
out of it now at the age I am now than when I was because I
would have been a teenager when I properly watched it.
You know because it's not a, it's not a it's not a laugh out
loud comedy film by any means and Sellers plays this sort of
lecherous old major or general so.
So there we go. So Roger, thank you for joining
me today. It's been my pleasure.
I've enjoyed the conversation. Thank you very much and
obviously this is, you know this, this is a fine Sellers
film, but it's never going to make anyone's I guess top five
list of Sellers films. However, as I've previously
said, at the end of this year I will be running down listeners
top 20 Peter Sellers films and I think I've got Mark Cousins
lined up to be one of the guests on that and another guest or
guests TBC. But if you haven't already sent
me your favorite, you know your top three Sellers films, please
message me on Twitter or my e-mail.
You've done it, haven't you, Roger?
Oh, I I usually any request like that.
It's the same as after your podcast.
I'll usually not just a like, but I'll put a comment on, on
your Twitter feed, you know, just to sort of let you know,
there are people out there listening to it.
Yes. Well, thank you.
And and I've already got a big, big, you know, I've already got
more or less a top 20. You probably have, and I suspect
the dog brief won't be on there, but it'll be on mine, Shall we
say yes, I'd say I rate it above the mouse that roared and most
people wouldn't. And I certainly rate it from
least favorite film of his, which is Lolita.
Oh. Oh, I'm sorry, it's just, have
you read the book? I have read the book years ago.
I do quite like Nabokov. Yeah, I know it's a very
problematic book, of course, but it's very well written for all
that. It's very well written about a
man's obsession, immoral illegal obsession and when in the film
they upped the age from 12 to 15, it totally ruins it.
Because there's a difference between a prepubescent girl that
you're obsessing over and a girl of 15 with a woman's body that
you're obsessing over. I just thought they'd ruined it.
Sorry. Well, I quite enjoyed Lolita the
film, but it's not. It's not one I would regularly
watch, but I I quite enjoy it. I do like I do like me some
James Mason. And yeah, James Mason is the
best thing in it. So you know, Sue Lloyd is
totally, totally wrong. And like I say it, it's just if
you read the book first and then see the film, you think there's
not a lot of relationship there. No.
But I would, I would do. I recommend the book.
It's very well written. It's what I will say.
Yeah, yeah. I read the book first, and the
book is brilliant, you know? Yeah.
You feel for the man. Strangely enough, although he's
morally repugnant, you still feel for him because it's so
well written. Yes.
Humbert. Humbert.
Yes. Yeah.
I remember reading the book when I was ill.
I remember being in bed. I can't remember what was wrong
with me. I just know that I was bed bound
for a couple of days and we're probably talking 20 years ago.
Yeah, but I just it completely was so absorbing the book it.
Is so well written and write a foreign language.
It's oh God, yeah. Yeah.
You're sure incredible. What's the other book he wrote
That. It's brilliant.
Pale Fire. Yeah.
Yeah, there's that. This Pinin PNIN, which I
struggled with, but I think of of those that I've read, Lily of
his that I've read Lolita's the best.
So, OK, all right. So yeah, as I say, if you
haven't already sent me your top three Sellers films for the end
of year poll, please do. I did that, yeah.
What were your top three? I think it was.
I'm all right. Jack would definitely be #1.
And I suspect 2 way stretch and wrong arm of the law with the
other two, right? But if you gave me a top five,
it's possible that Doc Brief might creep in there.
I suppose Pink Panther the first Pink Panther would be the other
film and smallest show on earth. Well, which I love.
Yeah. Covered all them apart from the
Pink Panther, which I will be covering in December because it
is the 60th anniversary of that film.
Like you plotting ahead like that.
Very clever. Yeah.
The first pink.
Oh and shot in the dark. Shot in the Dark is a my
favorite Sellers film of. All time, that is.
Those two films. I've actually got them recorded
from VHF on. DVD I transferred quite a few
old films from VHSDFDVD at some stage, and I've got them both on
one DVD. And yeah, they're a pair of
films that are brilliant after that.
No, they're all sorry. I'm very fond of Return of the
Pink Panther, but after that I find it.
They've melted dry by then, yeah, yeah.
And as I say, without someone really to compete with.
Sellers is not at his best. He needs someone to make him up
his game. He does, Yeah.
Here we go. All right, Roger.
Well, listen. OK, we will speak again.
Thank you again and. Tyler and I'd like to speak to
you every time. Thank you and listeners, I will
be back next week with another show, another guest.
I'm not sure what it will be yet, but it will be brilliant
whenever it. Is.
Of course it will. All right, you take care.
Bye, everybody. Bye.
Bye.
I believe I'm cut out for the Court of Appeal.
You see, there's piles of books, and when you put one down the
dust and the powdered leather rises and makes the Asher
sneeze, the clock ticks. 3 old judges in Scarlett takes snuff
with trembling hands foul. You will sit in the dark and not
follow a legal word. And I'll give the judges all, my
Lord, and get you off on a technicality.