Hello and welcome to goon pod this week.
We're talking about another goon show which is a British war film
parody. They love doing that and they
love sending out. The, the idea of the bookie
British has giving a bloody nose to Fritz and his friends.
So sit back and enjoy or stand up and enjoy or just do whatever
you're doing, but make sure you enjoy.
Joining me today, is Phil Canon of the Doctor Who podcast.
Who's he? Thank you very much, Tyler.
It's a real pleasure to be here and a pleasure to talk about
something other than dr. Hope for a change.
As I say this, every time I didn't know, there were Doctor
Who podcasts to be honest but there there are hundreds.
So what is what is, what is your you sp?
Well, basically we are so we've been going for like ten years
now and basically We just sort of as I talk about Doctor Who in
all its various various formats actually, whether it's not the
televised stuff for the not like the sum of the.
What we I grew up with is the target novelizations which was
based in the 70s was our only window into pre Tom Baker,
Doctor Who really, and then you cause you've got the audio
stories from Big finish as well. So there's there's quite a bit
of content to talk to get your teeth into the whole.
Thing of whose he came from our long-lost.
Third co-host, tiny because he used to watch a little bit of
Doctor Who but it wasn't sort of very well versed in it, we come
at the time because we remember years ago, we weren't on.
We were like a Lads holiday to Florida and in Florida in August
it. Just chucked it down with rain
every day because it's like, it's tropical there.
So, it's big down Pro and of rain.
But a couple of days, there were some really, really bad storms.
So we were stuck in the hotel room.
Watching Star Trek and all the way through it, Tony was easy.
What's he doing? Who's that?
So, and then so we just sort right?
Hos he but if I ate sizing the Doctor Who but also it ties into
his line of questioning all the way through it.
So that that's it. That's that's how we got the
name, really? It was is actually nothing to do
with doctors more start related. If anything, listen, we are not
going to be talking about Doctor Who today, you can depend upon
that because Today we are going to be talking about a particular
goon show which is an episode very dear to your heart, I'm
sure. So you know, what's your history
with the goons? How did you come to the goons?
Well, I thought occurred a long way around to get to the goons
really because initially it was Spike Milligan that I was re and
still am really really a big fan of he's my you know my all-time
hero and it was really sort of there were two things really it.
Baku series, which I odd occasional.
I was allowed to watch. Hmm, when I was a kid and also
he's War Memoirs which my life. It's my grandfather first.
I thought it seems to happen there but somebody would buy a
book in certainly my phone in the buy a book and then it be
passed around so everybody to read.
Yeah. And one of them was not, it
wasn't at all feel my partner is down for, it was Monte my part
and he's Victory, right? Okay.
I wish which is the which is the The third book.
Yeah and I was okay I didn't understand a lot of it was on
it, what was in there because you know, there's a lot of
naughty language wasn't there for the special for a, for a
child but it was the it was the pictures and the drawings in
there. So you might like there was that
I was it was the one about the Battle dress, I come up.
I don't think was Monte but it was the one about his battle
dress. That let in win small rodents
and soup. I think was but which was which
was still stay stay tuned to this day but also that picture
of Gal, getting into the cockpit of these meshes Schmidt, and the
caption underneath it, a German fighter pilot, crap it into his
cockpit. So then seen the Q Series as
well. Now obviously, as we know,
Milligan's had a real love-hate relationship with the BBC, are
they? For the moment started working
into the desert to the day, he died.
I think, really. And what I'd forgotten about in
the queue series was, it was more Early sketches.
But of course there's at least one or two musical insolence in
there as well which I completely forgot about it's not until the
box sets came out recently. Yeah, of the q-series.
I've forgotten was it Milligan Ed Welch?
That's right. Yeah, musical contributions.
That than really good words would sing on their each week.
Yeah but that was it that that was another ever since then.
I've been absolutely hooked on Milligan and try to collect.
As much stuff as I possibly could on the main, you know.
So I've got different versions of the war Memoirs, I've got
them on on audio, I've got mean cassette version, I've got them
on CD and one of the box sets he signed as well, but I didn't
actually make him to do it. My parents bought it for.
If my birthday, this would have been back in the with that box
that come up about the early 90s.
I think this would have been like 80s, early 90s.
Yeah. And they and Assigned the first
300. So, so I've got your signature
on the box set. So obviously I've got nothing
nothing. I can play cassettes and it
anymore, but I won't partly because it's got his signature
on it. Salute, you know.
Yeah. You know, I cannot part with it
but every time they sort of mum and dad would go out somewhere,
there's a, if you've got this, but they're going to love
looking around, sort of junk shops, or charity shops.
And they're always so Milligan, book, have you got this already
got that while I'm great now. I haven't, you know, can you can
you pick it up for me and so they sort of fed my they I fed
my habit over the years so to be honest.
So but yeah, I mean, obviously, but the other the other goons
obviously I probably second to Milligan was probably Michael
been team because watching pot was watching potty time.
Okay. Really hmm.
Which I absolutely, I was absolutely fascinated.
It wasn't exactly the the parties themselves.
It was the little flea circus things used to do each week and
I was fascinated by it. So what about what about Peter
The Pink Panther I presume was first of exposure to Peter
Sellers? Well, yeah, I mean, I obviously,
it was the Pink Panther show really was the cartoon and they
saw that. The, then you saw the clue, so
it's all cartoon character would turn out.
It wasn't till much later after I actually, I was actually sort
of found that I was told that I know it's the pink patterns of
film, it's Peter Sellers and I who's Peter Sellers and then
that's how I that's the only thing I knew him from read.
I knew he was a goon but in the 70s aren't actually heard.
Any gunshots at all. So, I heard of new of Harry
secant mainly from east of pop-up and television every now,
and again, also play mr. Bumble in Oliver.
Hmm, as well. That's pretty the first time I
saw him actually was doing that. Yeah, I knew of their existence
but at that time in the 70s, nothing about the guns.
So I did take a very long time to get to that point where
actually became aware and started listening to them, that
was 81. Because might might, my dad was
telling me about the girls because he used to listen to him
in the 50s. Yeah.
I think it did mention the Telly goons as well, which I've now
have I've watched the coder episode, it doesn't really work.
Does it tell your goons? Does it really work for
understood? Yeah, it doesn't really work.
I think that's the thing about as I found out about Goon humor.
It it works on radio, it's made for radio.
You can only go on those Flights of Fancy.
On radio, you can't fish, you can visualize in your mind but
you can't, you can't visualize it on television and you
certainly can't do it with puppets on a, on a budget like
that either. That's it.
You just can't be done. That's the thing about radio and
just sound effects because the budget is Limitless.
Yeah. Really.
Oh yeah. But yeah.
So I some I'd ever seen about the goons and then we found out
this, this documentary was on. And remember it's on this
Saturday night. Now we never, we were not my
purse. An audio files at all.
They never very rarely listen to music.
I think my mum used to Terry wogan on June the week, but my
mom wasn't a bishop. She's not the radio.
And. Really she's not in the car.
The only music being on, she's very, she was very, very sort of
NT noise and then he I don't like that and a no offense to
Mama. I don't understand people like
that because you get people like that.
And I think they should be locked up people, that people
people that likes like Solitude like so.
Silence that, you know, I can't, I have to have music on or I
need to be listened to a podcast or need to have something.
When I'm something, I'm ya doing anything more or less?
If yeah, if I'm on my own doing something, even if it's grouting
the bathroom tiles, you know I need something, something
something on. Yeah, so so for us that this on
honest, he wasn't at 10 o'clock on a Saturday night as well.
So and I recorded it that actually, I think we could get
why recalls the next day. So I'll get my mind.
Mixed up it. So yeah.
So we set then listen to it and I was absolutely hooked from
that pot and by then it's nothing more than that like a
few interviews at you. Cutter interviews with Spike and
Harry some, and some other key players and lots of Clips to the
goats. Yeah.
And I think the obviously I was brought up in about 10 or 11
years old was around about that age and when it got to Fred the
oyster, hmm I was okay. I'm a, I'm a 10 year, old kid,
listen to someone breaking wind on the radio, I was in
hysterics, I was in absolute last Eric's
and that, that was it. As I say, I was absolutely not
hooked on it, but then the next day and then for the, on the
Sunday, lunch tone radio tuned for the next six weeks, after
that, they broadcast. Gun shows.
Okay, yeah, so yeah. So which and then I had to
offer, I know I've got no, I don't want to recall them.
I thought it's more Milligan stuff.
I can collect. So, I found out that my dad
Dugout an old cassette from somewhere.
And I think the first episode they played on that Sunday,
lunch time was the of it was the person narrative of see goon RN
and I think the next week would queen Queen Anne's Reign.
Right? Fine dismember.
This wouldn't have been 83 word The also it was earlier than
that actually. Jenny reason I'm saying that
because I know my good friend tilt.
Who's been on this show? Yeah.
And we talked about Queen Anne's Reign, and he, he was born 75.
And I know that he heard it in that series, that repeat Series
where personal narrative was, um, was included in queen.
Queen, Anne's Reign, I looked on BBC genome and From memory.
I might be wrong. And you know if so I'll edit
this out, but I'm pretty sure it was 83.
I made it earlier than that, but I was like again, I could be
wrong as well. Let's move, let's move.
Let's move on. I listen to it in my very my
formative years, put it that way.
Okay anyway so that there was there was that it was the policy
Around the World in 80 Days. The episode we're going to talk
about or highlight. So it will melt Go light and
then to talk, there's a couple hours on there, but that was it.
I was and I recorded these and I played them to death after that
I could not get enough of it. And not every evening, as I
said, they're not, my parents aren't big audio files.
And the reason I say it was, it was 81 because I didn't have a
stereo or anything. I could place on in my own
bedroom at the time so I not listen, I listen to it on my
dad's hi-fi. As they as they were stereogram
radiogram. Well, there we go back.
Let's grab this rubber phone. So I listen to it back then on
the headphones. And that was all, that was it.
I was sort became absolutely addicted to listen.
And I'll play these episodes over and over again.
But the thing was, I didn't know anybody else who listened to it,
and I was, it was a very sort of singular fandom it really was
nobody at school. Listen to it.
If I'm inside you, listen to the goons.
It was so it's all So that they know what he's already showed in
the 1950s and do the listen to that.
It's old, it's practically black and white radios.
Far as they were concerned, it would watch a black-and-white
film, look listen to Black and White radio.
So, yeah, so that that I was the only, but really, it was I did
have a sort of very sort of happy time at school, to be
honest. In those years, those are my
secondary school years. So having these it was almost
like an escape for me. As well.
I could I could enter this this world of equals and blue bottle
and blood milk, and they DC goon and Moriarty and so on.
And so on it was it was a it was a it was a real big Escape for
me. Hmm But then horror of Horrors,
my younger sister, she taped over them.
That's what younger sisters will tend to do.
I don't think if I know exactly I was gutted.
I was absolutely gutted. I think there was two episodes
left. I think out of all that I think
which is actually personal narrative and Queen Anne's
writing the rest. She takes over for whatever,
whatever reason, so was until I discovered the BBC near my
double cassettes. And if this is, now, we're
looking sort of like mid to late 80s when I discovered them.
Yeah. So then I was just It's snapping
them up as well. But again, I was, I was playing
them to to death and I do for you.
You had this as well, so everyone listen to this.
But the, the quality of the BBC cassettes weren't all that
great, and they would constantly unspool it inside it.
So, whatever machine I played them on.
Yeah. And they would say, and they
would stretch that so that the quality of the order will get
really bad. And yeah, so, but I don't have
any It's because it was poor quality or just the sheer number
of times. I've played them back, but
around about that time my dad's met Milligan.
Right? Yeah, it coming out of, I think
it back there is it was a branch of John Menzies in the London
Wall. My days to work up in a round
broad gate, and as he was walking in, as she's walking
out. So Milligan was coming and he
held the door. Open for my dad said, I've
become to buy my book but there's no no.
I'll just sort of popped up for my luncheon.
That was it. And what?
I'm astonished that you want a missed opportunity.
I know. I know.
And then when my dad told me this when I was working at that
time as well, and gotten from my dad said, oh yeah, I'm ex parte
Milligan at Dana's. Well well and did you get all
girl for me now? Will you know how to get back to
the office? And I can current
market-clearing me with the two words.
I said to him, you bastard. Okay, could have been worse,
could it be worse? I know who you but so, Yes, I've
always wanted, you've met, you've met my hero But Chuck
something I know I was never able to do.
I was never able to yeah, you know, to do that.
But but the thing I mean, the other thing as well because say,
my parents did feed my my gun show habit.
I think it is, I think, when the last gun show of all was
released on VHS cassette, I wasn't aware of it and my dad's
again. He one of his lunch time for a
raise out into the whatever shops around it, Renee,
Liverpool. He came home from work and I was
upstairs. My bedroom watching, sit on the
town, he come inside, I'll turn this rubbish off.
Oh, that was always thinking about that.
I'll turn this rubbish off, wherever it was, I'll turn this
rubbish Oscars, and he cut any County, said turn this rubbish
off of what? What, now, he said, I've got
this. And it was the, it was the last
gun show of all right, straighten and straighten the,
in the, in the old VHS player, you know, Keystone halfway
through the, the seventh, seal, or something, some some landmark
in cinema and you guys come in and say, okay, there's rubbish
on At your think it was Star Trek next Generation so they
probably probably was right to improper sure you did.
Yes, yes. So but I knew watching that you
know you could tell that it was heavily edited the way to sort
of jumped it jumps around and then sort of year and I do mean
many years later when I tracked down the the the complete audio
version of that, you realize just how much was was cut out of
that. The more I sort of obviously
spent Lots on. Milligan everything.
But obviously I've read that stuff on Sellers as well.
We won't mention Doctor Who, but I was, I was guessing on a
podcast. I think last year sometime, and
it wasn't like her, like a Doctor Who version of desert
island discs. All the questions were doctored
related. He said what other person Dead
or Alive. Would you like to keep you
company on this desert island and strange to us?
I said, Peter Sellers, right. And it, why why?
Why? Because why Peter says I just
thought because I just think he would he would be endlessly
interesting. Really?
Because, yeah, he would blow hot and cold and throwing massive
strops and very childish main. But I thought he probably the
perfect person to be stranded on a desert island honor because he
disappeared for two or three weeks.
And then come back again is nothing had happened.
Yeah. Okay, fair enough.
But then if you're there for a while and you close Begin to
perish. So you have to improvise and you
start you. So you're making like a pair of
trousers, out of palm tree leaves.
So yeah, sellers is going to lose a rag because he hated
green clothing. So you did you see did leave
them in the Sun have to or bamboo trousers about heat
rises. How about wearing?
Come on and talk about ill. Met By Moonlight.
Mmm. Yes.
What what is it about this particular episode that takes
your fancy? Well as I said a sort of said
not too long ago actually it's one of the one of those six
episodes of the BBC played back in the 80s and it just stayed
with me, okay? Because it brings back something
like those lovely memories of sitting by the radio waiting to
press. Recalled at the exact moment you
can. It was always that I would do, I
just miss the beginning of that one off, you know.
So I wish there was a way to describe that.
I wish there was some German word to describe that there
should be. There should be I don't can't
think of one that shit. Oh that I think you know what
English? Nipped finger ships.
That's a good one. Yes.
So anyway it was some no idea
since this one quite a bit actually because it to my mind
it's not your usual. You goon show because no one's
the bad guy in this one. They're all working together.
Hmm. They're all of the same side.
You have a good grip, Piper Moriarty as the antagonists.
That's right. In this atone, it's actually
quite a well structured gun show.
You know, it's got a probably beginning middle and end.
Yeah. But the thing is though, the one
that I recorded off the radio didn't have the opening bit with
green. So going this is the BBC in and
so you can go and jump number one.
Hmm it didn't have that on that. I don't know why.
They used to cut weird things out.
Obviously, I've listened to the full version with all the mrs.
Yes, put back in. But yeah.
So there were, there were little bits.
There. Wasn't that much new stuff,
actually, Tim to my ears, but the little bit of a bit at the
beginning with Churchill was, was, was new.
Yes. There's a couple of weird edits
from from my memory from the show.
When I first heard it which would have been, you know, the
one of the transcription Services edited version back in
the day, there's there's a sequence where Nettie basically
legs it because, you know, he doesn't want to get involved in
the secret mission and he's a coward.
Yeah, makes a run for it and and he's caught, well, he's caught
in the actual full version that the line is that he's caught by
the urals. Now, that's now the word.
The now, the urals is cut out of the, the show that I sort of
grew up with. It's really weird what the
things they'll cut out, because when they're singing O, Sole
Mio, And there's a bit in that where sellers sings deliberately
are. So Leo low, and you can hear
Milligan, just begin to crack up.
Yeah, at that point. But the thing is, they didn't
and you knew full, well, what you were saying?
There was no hiding, it was saying our sonio low They kept
that in that, that was on one of the.
There's that, that six, I recall it back in the 80s.
That that was there. That was they didn't cut that by
the cut out. This as you say, from this one
and mention of the Ural was. So yeah, so it was but yeah, but
what I do I sort of liked about it is once it sort of gets in
its the city city things about the at least two occasions.
It's the very disparaging about the the American Fleet Actually
yes, yes, yeah. It's sort of like, put up
mantelpiece or smoke it later. Oh, what was her name?
Put it in Lost Property. I'll pick it up later is that
was so that was the second one. Yeah.
So I do I just love that but the thing is that it I've never
actually seen it will met By Moonlight that the film that
this is actually sort of period in is that if that's even a
word, it will met By Moonlight. I died.
So did look at the film's synopsis and Mission to Crete is
Yeah, ends really because it'll be about girls.
Got absolutely no relation to the movie whatsoever.
Part for mission to create a capture, a German general.
Well, I bought the DVD of ill met By Moonlight about, yeah,
four years ago. Hmm.
And it's one of those. You know what, you start
watching a film as watch? I watched about the first half.
Yeah, I had to stop it to do something.
And it was one of those films that, you know, you think I'll
come back to that and then because I don't become absorbed
by it enough was sufficiently. Lee that.
Yeah, kind of make excuses. Not to watch the the next bit.
Yeah, I did think, should I watch it ahead of doing this?
Just to kind of see if there's any parallels, but now, of
course it didn't know. It was a true story.
So incredible, that even those who took part in it were
constantly being surprised. Also the house of other
Englishmen on key to be surprised at the British
officers who took part in it. Smith.
Oh me, sorry, but I get down with it.
Let me, let me, let me just give a quick little sort of run down
in terms of the broadcast history and whatnot.
So yeah, so it's, it's from Series 7, episode 23.
So it's coming quite close to the end of the seventh Series.
Yeah, broadcast. 14th of March 1957 Spike and Larry Stevens are
down as scriptwriters and produced by Pat dick.
Even now yet again and one thing that one of the things I'm
finding from doing this podcast is because, you know, we need to
sort of digging deep in terms of topical references.
What's going on around the time that the shows are going out the
actual film L met By Moonlight was was only released on the 4th
of March 57. So 10 days before this, this
given Show episode Broadcast. So you know, the week probably
the week that Spike was putting the show together.
Yeah. I mean it does he say it's
there? Quite a structure of plot to it.
It's it's it's the middle of World War Two and mmm.
Lieutenant made siguen is ordered to lead a secret mission
to german-occupied Crete in order to capture the commanding
officer, General von Goethe turn and he's assisted in a manner of
speaking by Blood, Mark, Ellington and Echols and using
pretty unorthodox. What you call it Weaponry?
Yes some but not all thoughts. Commando unit?
Yes. Socks full of spaghetti and and
and then you know along the way see you know overcome such
perils as Germans Dynamite explosions and some really corny
gags. Very corny jokes.
Yes. And and kind of successfully
completes the mission but doesn't really because there's a
little twist, it twist at the end and it's what I said, let it
be a secret. Come please much at the end of
any good show. Really does nice.
And I was looking, I was quite a one of the things that I picked
up on re listening to it the other day.
Hmm, the sheer number of different voices that sellers
took on for this episode because, because first and
foremost, there's no Minnie. Oh Henry, I don't know, there is
some, so one of his core characters is absent, okay, but
I went through in a sort of jotted down, note down every
character. However, smaller apart, shall
we? Yes, and I've no jotted down 12
different roles here that sellers performed and cause
Henry wasn't one of them. So, no.
So you've got sellers playing Churchill briefly at right at
the yard at the beginning because there's that.
Yeah. Like you say there's that
there's that gag that got cut from from later versions which
is the topical gag, right? At the beginning, where
Churchill is threatening to kill, Alan Brooke and Brooke.
This is the BBC Home Service joke.
Number one, what did the a A statement say when he read the
Sunday time, I'll kill that fellow Alum broke one veteran
Brock. Just released the book at that
time. Well now he hadn't but someone
else had about it was like a biography or think was an
authorized biography of Alan Brooke and it was by a guy
called Arthur Bryant called the turn of the tide and was
published in January of that year.
So it was only a couple of months before this show without
all this. Yeah.
And it essentially from what I've read up about it, I'm
Brooke. I think he gave him access this
guy access to his Diaries and there was a lot of stuff in
there about how Allen Brooke didn't like.
The Americans thought they were Chumps pretty much and he wasn't
very flattering about Churchill and didn't think he really had
it in him to be a wartime leader.
And so, I'm just wondering whether because he, they
mentioned Churchill annoyed about something.
He'd read in the Sunday Times. Or whether the book was being
serialized at the time. Perhaps.
Well maybe yeah that's the sort of thing used to do then, isn't
it? It's not something you see some
money now maybe because people don't buy newspapers as much
anymore but you could be you know I think you could be on to
something there actually but I say it's the only topical
reference it is really this story is such as and yeah really
yeah. I mean it's a not even to be
okay if it follows the sort of the the major plot Be of the
movie, it doesn't do anything other than that really does.
It does it is not taking the Mickey out of any of the actors
in there or, you know, you know, sort of like Milligan.
You know, he had this thing about, you know, that that the
stiff upper lip. So it's a style of acting
though, I especially was announced on Walbrook, have
somebody at the edit in forth for some reason.
Yeah, so is always sort of parody that kind of thing.
But it doesn't really sort of go into those sort of 1950s War.
Certainly British war movie tropes.
Too much really, not really small.
Taking the, I mean, how can you read when you've got a spaghetti
Hurley regiment it really? Yeah, you can't.
Can you? Well, you've also got so just
going back to sellers because he's yeah please he plays
Churchill briefly, he plays the guess, he's an unnamed us
officer but it's the her own voice that he do you Hearn.
Yeah he does. He does this wonderful lift
attendant which is a very very Camp lift attendant who says
Admiralty submarines combined Ops and a rotten Beast of a rain
called Frida brothel and it got a big laugh as well and begin.
What was that? Anything in the news at the
time? Was it, when it's not about a
rain or but no, I couldn't find anything out about it.
I just think that stick is a funny name.
It's just a silly. Nice.
Exactly. Yeah.
He's just he's just being a bit of a bitch.
Yeah, sorry too much into that. Because Blue Bottle later on in
the show, he prefers to to play time rotters, Erik's words and
Bert prod, was it because I was supposed Eric, twill judge
character itself, it was Eric's Will Chamber prod, maybe you're
right. Maybe is there.
It's were to me it sounds like toilet your own.
Listen back to it. Okay.
I always say is always said like it wasn't a character will go
back. Yeah again it gets a massive
laughs and he cracks up saying it as well.
Isn't it? Yeah, again, it's just silly
names. Silly?
Really but prod. So yeah.
So sellers, he plays this sort of generic British officer type
as well. Yeah.
And then he kind of seems to morph into grip pipe thin, I
think. Yes, there's not a lot in it, is
there now and then and then you've got blood knocked
off-course and you've got William, who is playing a ticket
collector, but is in reality, Apparently, we find out at the
end. Yes, sellers plays a station
announcer, which is this sort of rather sort of severe female
voice that he puts on. Yes, yeah, plays Lou, the the
Jewish character, very understated Jewish character
that he plays. Oh yes, very very subtle.
Very subtle blue bottle, of course, and then below do called
Blind masseuse or some plumbers. It is this leader of the
resistance easily. Artisan here is General van
gluten every night at 10:00 East Africa.
Pass through the Coast Road. South of yarn bonds made, was
your bondsman under your head chef?
Yeah, a very well could be any Spanish, South American Voice.
Nothing sellers was doing this. Yeah, here's the thing as well.
This is an interesting little die.
Russian. Because yeah, cell is actually
auditioned for the role of a Greek partisan in L met By
Moonlight. And right it'll met By Moonlight
was directed by Michael Powell of os.
It was the last it was the last pair and pressburger film you
met By Moonlight. Yes and yeah.
Powell obviously would go on to do peeping, Tom and other things
and that kind of finished his career and I gather I didn't
Why's that I gathered that Michael Powell was a bit of a
prissy kind of so-and-so. Ready wasn't particularly
well-liked? I gather or at least that's the
impression I get from things I've read about and being yeah,
be quite abrupt. But those are sellers are
audition for this role. I'm not quite sure because it's
not, you know, it's not a comedy.
You think salad and sellers must have been fencing that he could
strike out into drama. Play dramatic role I guess
around this time but he he was rejected, Powell rejected him
and described him as looking at the time, like an Indian Rubber
owl, What? Why a rubber a law that that's
you ever seen a rubber else Indian Rubber.
So it's an owl made of rubber again.
What why what? Why?
Any kind of rubber actually? I don't know, but let me the
sellers and 57, yeah, a bit of Timber on him.
He was quite a tubby gentleman. He was in foul faced I suppose
but anyway, anyway, fast forward 10 years.
Okay, Ten years later and Michael Powell, whose career has
taken a bit of a dive while this point, is looking to adapt the
wonderful. Michael frayn novel The Russian
interpreter. So he's looking to make a film
of the novel, The Russian interpreter, and he goes to
visit sellers, that's the big pile of bricks that sellers was
living in at the time. Wherever that would have been.
Yeah. And apparently, pal, How turns
up at Sellers house and just drive straight up into the
garage in without asking, just sort of just drive straight in.
And the first, the first person he sees his base is Britt
ekland. And according it right,
according to Legend, Powell would have got out, jumped out
of his car and says, Ah, is this sellers Looking at Britt ekland.
Yeah. Oh God.
And then and then so endeared himself to the pair of
immediately. Yeah, so you know, you got off
on the right footing and then I believe he spent some time, he
and others trying to persuade sellers to to appear or star in
this film. And I think Sal is just kind of
just And ends up kind of humiliating him in public, I
think, I think sellers really, really, really took against him.
And, and I did whether it was because of the fact that he'd
been, you know, turfed off this film in 57, he wasn't even in
the film. He was rejected for donation.
But yeah, exactly. Yeah.
I do. I could imagine sellers holding
that Grudge actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, unfortunately.
So so yeah. So Very long-winded thing to say
here. But but yeah.
So so so, it's quite interesting that sellers would play this,
this partisan leader and I wonder whether the audition he
played Corporal, I was as part of his audition pop, with this
shit, might be dead soon. And then finally, he plays von
Goethe known who is actually turns out to be a ticket
collector from Clapham. Who's a, is a very, again, very
sort of Faye. German voice German character,
the characterization. So yes.
So this this to my by my count in those 12 different roles
there and they're not all you know they're not all the
well-known ones. There's some there's some quite
unusual ones as well. Yeah, I think that's the I mean
even more ER to grip pipe or in one scene.
Yeah. Really.
And that and that's it. And they don't really have a big
impact. Some other story at all.
This is really driven by see that you see going blood knock
are Who's and Ellington and blue box really empty bottle and
blue-eyed right here towards the end of the latter, half of it.
Yeah, exactly. Although see that Billy
goodness, that he plays a different version of Jim sprigs.
It's Field Marshal Montgomery. I wanted to mention that I'm
glad you're mad. Yeah, because we've never really
to my knowledge, with possible exception of the show.
I did with my friend till we've never really mentioned, sprigs
the gym, sprigs character, or his incarnations.
So we've got a doll for sprigs as well.
Which I'm yes, I sure. Sure where the whether the
difference lies over the name really and that's strange voice
of was it in the key of C isn't it apparently?
Yeah. Hello Jim.
Yeah, yeah. It's with it there's a lot of
sort of a Vulcan has done. What was it originally wasn't
bluebottle originally Ernie Splat muscles he was in the in
the in the very in these sort of crazy people sort of era and
that's what that's just evolved into.
Blue, but nothing is the same thing as sprees because Springs,
which is sort of uses a, what can we do?
Just sort of, has like a little pretend musical interlude, then
stopping singing kind of thing. And then he just, then he sort
of evolved into this other. I'm not going to say
fully-formed character because he sits it's not but it became
more of a thing. And I don't know again, if it
was just like it was another attempt at a catch phrase, it
was an art, he was an off the peg character for in the needed
a character. That one.
Yeah, Mario, when Sal has wasn't available to do another voice
and they needed a character to be a policeman or a hotel
receptionist, or whatever it may be.
Yeah. And so Spike would do would do
sprigs yet because at the I don't know how many times he
done the characters sprigs before this episode, but there's
and I think it's sellers who starts who cracks up when Oh
God, I don't know again. I thought it was put with those
goons in pressures. I can't do them anyway but when
he says, so you see see going so you see see goon like that and
then you hear sellers laughing and I think he's clapping as
well, you can. And I don't know why why that
particular moment. It is sized to fit that Celerity
funding start clapping. And it's also if that's the
first time, he's heard it. Obviously it's not, it's not but
no, obviously, it's not but for some I don't know what makes him
laugh and clap, what's that? Don't know what rendition.
We don't know what happened in the rehearsals.
We don't know what they've been talking about or laughing about
exactly. Exactly.
And it could be some little little in-joke.
Something that came out during rehearsals and we are unaware.
We the audience are unaware of what significance, it has to
rest of them. Yeah, I mean it's loads of
occasions where you can hear that mean the audience laughing
at. Something's, obviously they're
doing on stage. Yeah, no.
Ask the listener. I've got, we're just not privy
to, unfortunately. Yeah, it's those little moments
of it just makes me wonder what, what, what, what makes it so
funny for them. Or why is the audience react in
the way is that you say, like two things like Frida brothel,
why don't find energy funny, which just a silly name.
It doesn't mean anything. Yeah.
But again, he's used very sparingly again, the sprigs
voice anyways. No, he's not called sprigs in
this obviously, but once he's done his bit, then he doesn't.
It doesn't appear again readers. He does his Montgomery there.
That's it. He's gone.
But that's why that's why I particularly like this one.
Because it He's like, well, a properties, as you said the
begin a properly structured story, it goes from one scene to
the next scene, introduces more characters than those cats might
join me in the next scene or and I think Larry Stevens has got a
lot to do with that because I think he kept spiking chess.
Yeah, a lot of the time I know you've spoken about whole
podcast devoted to Larry Stevens by do think that after and it's
really noticeable as well actually after Larry Stevens has
Gone. Unfortunately, it's it does sort
of lose its way plot-wise. And sometimes it's just their
mucking about until the first musical interlude, then.
The gun show will start, but that, whatever the plot of that
week is, you know, so it's always like you always get like,
you know, about 5-10 minutes or of their version of variety.
And then it, then it goes on to the gunshots, right after Max
geldray, but there's some crackers in series 9.
It's cracking shows. Oh yeah.
There is, there is, I think it, I think again is what was so
needed. Lions have what spikes mindset
was that particular week, really?
Where he could turn into complete script.
But as I say that this series 7, I think that there is that
there's some good strong stuff in.
And I think this is one of my particular favorites.
This really is, I mean, it's not that when they get to when
Moriarty does appear it's up for its for the fried french forces.
Yes. And it's just the fact that it
affect their fright. Yeah.
Actually, I don't know, I don't know.
It's always made me laugh that I don't, I don't know why.
But and so yeah it's not this, we've got this camp.
That blood knock seems to be a yo man ding which yes he's got
this method. He's come up this method for
ending the war, which is Commandos to be issued with
socks. Full of spaghetti, and for
hitting and hitting German soldiers in the face with.
Yeah. And who will then in their,
befuddled State, assume that the Italians have turned against
them. He's got me thinking there's a
lot of there's a lot of socks filled with stuff in the game
show, isn't there? This there's a I know off the
top of the top of my head. There's this there's this is a
sock full of grit in it. Christmas Carol.
Yeah. See that.
There's although it's not in the show itself but the sock full of
custard to simulate the sound of a better pudding.
Being heard or someone held. Yes, yes, it's just socks full
of stuff. You sure.
And they are me socks as well as you come back, poiice it about
blood-- that that is when he's describing his method of winning
the war with this, this Army, sock, full of lukewarm
spaghetti. As he calls it, it's that baby
starts to sentence of with each kamado horse like that.
And I again I just crack up at that bit and I've I do you sort
of like it's that the thought of Butch Commandos kissing come.
There's there's a lot of stuff. There's a bit of innuendo there
but it was makes me laugh because he's never given the
impression that any warm body would do, but you never know
with with blood know. What was the other one?
Okay, I can't I can't remember though the episodes where he
says to are calls because we are better to suggest something know
why you stay looking so suggestive.
Hmm, how do you know I'm not it starts getting like that, who
you're not be buying you. So yeah, it's Yeah.
He's I could think of, he's any warm body will do.
That's fair enough. It was, it was the war, wasn't
it? It was the war.
Exactly, I love the fact. I love the fact that.
So, for reasons unknown lieutenancy goon has been chosen
to lead this team to create to capture the general, the
underscore Siegen. One of the great things about
seagoing is cowardice is share, cowardice.
You know, if he's such a such a patriotic, well, Englishmen but,
you know, he just yes. Ready to scarper at the
slightest hint of any trouble. I love the fact that it sounds
up to blood knocks. Spit spaghetti.
Holy dip. Oh, and real and says, men
announces that. He's the volunteer for the great
job and blood knocks his unchain him Sergeant.
Yes. And I think Millions got this
whole thing about, was it cowardice in the face of n?
So as one of these, but we will find the slightest disturbance.
Yeah, yeah, it's got this thing about again.
I think it is that, you know, that thing about that, the stiff
upper lip and the, the British war movie of the 1950s.
He just took it the other way. Yes, they went off to do Brave
things but there were taken there in Chains.
You know, they were dragged, they're screaming and kicking
you know, to do that brave thing again, I think it's for all of
them really sort of like that, that wartime experience the it's
not full of square-jawed Heroes. The real world is it?
People are they do do Brave things without even knowing it
really? But in this case so you can
there's a little pray that your what's the right way back to
Wales. So there is a reference to
there's a grip pipe briefs Siegen and sort of preface it by
saying, let's put you in the picture to which Nettie replies
too late Dirk bogarde already in it which obviously is a little
reference to the actual film the movie.
Yeah. And I love the bit on the train,
so they're on the train, the traveling to Portsmouth and and,
and the, the war office being. So, so stingy, won't even like,
you know, stretch to paying for their train tickets.
So they have to hide under the seat.
Cus he spotted us. I didn't hundred sheets or a
secret mission and we thought you were a German smile, German
spy might all come from Clapham chef Mike.
Well we've got to be careful, you see, we're gonna creep to
capture general fund Cooter at my good luck, but I still want
to see your ticket man. They basically tell William this
ticket collector the whole Secret.
Mission. Yes.
Oh, I also love the fact that it's that thing of hiding under
the seat as well. It just I don't know why they
always get space. So you say there's some good sir
but did you say you got some really cool knee jokes in there
as well? Because once they actually
obviously, they'd they get under under the submarine Supply by
Moriarty's fried french forces once they sort of row row.
Ashore, I said, overall as surely as were on Crete and
blood that says, oh this Each is hold.
We must be on concrete, huh? Like that.
So it seems we built just for that concrete jar.
And then at the end you get another bad joke which you think
they've chosen that name just to make that joke right?
Yeah can I tell you and I tell ya and I swear to God you know
on my my not going to swear on my mother's grave but on someone
else's grave. I swear that God worked out that
that was going to be the joke. When I first heard of this show
I swear to God because Because I was thinking vote because it's
not a goon ish name. It's not mangu.
Turn is not a goon Ash name. No it's not not at all and I
remember thinking von Goethe turned on Cooter and because I
guess I've heard enough gun shows to know that there's very
often they've got form for obviously doing punning jokes
based on foreign names. Like I don't know if I knew if
I'd worked out, it was going to be von Goethe.
Turn deserves another but I thought it's going to be
something like that, you know. Yeah.
And yeah. Spot on.
The name right for the part of the outset the show was purely
to to build towards that corner gag.
Hey, why not? You did like a coolie get he did
love call. He gags.
Actually Spider-Man thinks he had this sort of a rather than
out there humor, but now he did like, you know obvious jokes
sometimes yes, you know or bad puns or whatever, you know, it's
bring it on so I could sir we've got we've got the blue bottle
vehicles. I swear so I think seagoing and
blood knocking Ellington ago and dynamite the bridge further on
down the road. They as blue Barnacles to stay
behind and keep it keep kv-4 the generals car and then you've got
this little sequence lovely lovely little sequence where
blue bird blue bottles talking about some English girl that
he's met who can speak French and it just it's just wonderful
young adults the can-can. Yes.
It's almost like it's like Like blue bottle when it equals
version of what you call it. Locker room talk.
Yeah, it's all like they're sort of that the I think that Locker
about that Barrack room the baritone America.
Yes. We're going to be yeah.
Put it into sort of sort of army army terms here so.
Yeah, but it's it was if you've got two children doing Barrack
room but what sort of like what's a bit risque?
I wish you. She's got as you can speak
French and as the can come and put in an old can on each foot
and jumping up and down. So it's as you said, our people
use the what time is it Eccles? Yeah.
As a, as a thing to illustrate going humor, if I was to pick a
Nicholson, bluebottle sketch. It will probably be this one to
illustrate the guns, more than anything else.
Right? I think this is a nice little,
nice. Little double act thing going on
here and it's silly as well. But I've, it's got to my
favorite sort of things that have someone to being a check
out in the Goon show, it blue bottle.
So we're both close our eyes when we outgrew his left, stops
the car, yes, right? And then you sort of right up,
its that thing with Echo saying, right, you've got your eyes
closed yet in the background that this is your boob, okay?
Yes. Like that sort of and it just it
gets me every toaster fantastic gag.
It really is. Lord.
What look he's the car. Who would want to stop it?
Let's draw lots for it. We're both close our eyes and
when we opened them, he's ever slept, stop the massacre, okay,
minor closed. Well, you are your eyes closed
because they have to shoehorn in Blue Horse, Blue Van blue holes,
yes, Blue Bottle falling in a body of water so that they get a
little gin can come along and say his catchphrase.
So yeah. So so so all's well that ends
well or is it? Because seagoing thinks that
they have, you know, the completed, the mission
successfully, they've captured von Goethe and and then William
turns up And says hands up mate, and he's basically reveals that
he will hands up sums as he says it reveals that he has been von
Goethe and a German spy all the time.
And von Goethe owns is in reality a ticket collector from
clapping and the show ends and it's a nice little nice.
Little neat little ending, as far as, you know, by goons terms
anyway. Well, I say it does it sort of
like soon? Get does get the last word and
it's actually quite act when you use of read stuff about, you
know, the British Armed Forces. Now in a The wages as you know,
folks are sometimes wonder how we won the war.
Yeah, yeah, never never a true sentence.
I think actually, but yeah, I as well as episodes.
I will keep coming back to because I think it's, you know,
we've been talking about it all, you know, the last 30 minutes so
and I even out. So don't think it's not your
typical goon show this one because it has, it's got a
proper structure to it. I'll keep saying it's got proper
structure, go and listen to it. It, because they're not all that
out there, humor all the time was, you know, is lots of silly
sound effects and silly voices and everything.
Because if you said, there's a lot of those characters, you
know, and love and not in this story, or they're not use that
are common in one scene only. Yeah, exactly.
That's, that's why I selected and plus FH is takes me back to
those Happy Days. You know, by the radio pressing
record on the older on the old cassette player as well.
Yeah, it's a must have been, it's lovely.
It's not, it's not one that. I mean, I listen to them all on
heavy rotation. Yeah, for three or four year
period back in the late 80s, early 90s and yeah you know this
one I knew every word pretty much, you know, and but it
wasn't. It wasn't one that I would say
was one of my very favorites. It wasn't one that I listen to a
lot. I don't know why because, you
know, I'm listening to these again now after so many years
and actually thinking in some ways, I'm appreciating them more
than maybe I did when I was 16. On 17, and it's hard to explain
why that is. But it's maybe just, maybe I
just appreciate the Artistry. Yeah, I think that you're onto
something there actually. Because I think obviously, when
I started listening to these, you know, as a preteen and as a
teenager and grabbed everything, it was all just about the silly
voices and the sound effects and everything.
But, you know, and as I got older and so like yourself,
listening to on rotation, I certainly did have a A big
period myself doing that. You start to appreciate some of
the, the word play. There was nothing else like it
on the radio that time but yet so that that I mean, that's one
of the I think, as I grew up, it was that you saw to appreciate
what they were trying to do that.
Well, it was different. They were thumbing their nose at
Authority all the time and so many risque jokes, they could
get away with I know sort of like it is also Spike Milligan
with is the Godfather of modern comedy.
I can't really disagree with that.
And to be honest, he sort of set the template that you could,
what you, what you could actually do, what you could get
away with. Yes, that's right as well.
Yeah you know because once it's done it's done, you know.
So you can't say that what we've already said it.
So now put the genie back in the bottle.
Can you know you come? That's it.
That is it? Yeah, so now it's an excellent.
Show. It's a great show.
Phil, thank you so much for coming on and talking about it
and thank you for having me. I hope I will just it's been
great. Absolutely just just before we
before we wind up completely. I just wanted to do a little bit
of housekeeping because, you know, I record these quite one
of the advance of when they actually go out and about six or
seven shows back, we covered the case of the missing CD plates.
Covered that with John rain and I thought of Research Phil, I
thought it under I thought it was gonna be pretty assiduous.
I thought I'd, you know, uncovered every sort of little
nugget, you know, every little sort of topical fact, that I
could have you been out. Fact, I've been out fact, right.
So the case of missing City plates, obviously, you know, the
the Crux of the story is that Ned Seeger and gets squashed by
a piano which is thrown out of the Titicaca and Embassy window
and they claim they have diplomatic immunity.
T. So they can't, you know, they
are immune from prosecution said in the show that I just thought
that I wondered whether there had been some sort of hoo-ha or
brouhaha at the time about the abuse of diplomatic immunity.
Apparently. There was because Shawn Gaffney,
listen, Shawn Gaffney, who is, is going to be a future guest.
Actually he got in touch and he said that in May 1955.
So someone's had a good sort of around six months before the
show was broadcast. A very A similar incident
occurred and actually was was brought up and discussed in the
House of Commons and Andrew crowd another listener.
He managed to dig out a press cutting from the time and just
want to read you. This the headline is a diplomat
through piano on a car. You got the occasion when a
frustrated young Peruvian Diplomat.
Let's steam off bought laughter the House of Commons last night
when the incident and its consequences were mentioned by
mr. CR Hobson, MP4 keighley mr.
Hobson was speaking during a debate on diplomatic immunity a
subject once of great concern to one of his constituents members
laughed when mr. Hobson told them his constituent
parked his car outside a London hotel, when onto it Fell a grand
piano, he was not so funny for the car owner from Keith Lee
because the piano had been thrown by a diplomat who because
of his status could not be called on to pay for damage to
the car. So it goes on so goes on, but
yeah, so that actually happens. But so was he solely responsible
for thrown a grand piano? Well, I guess he must out of the
window. Probably had some.
It must have had a mess of assistants, surely some, some
sort of minor ranking, Diplomat, possibly helped and maybe.
Yes, um, yeah, but that's amazing, Diplomat diplomatic
lickspittles gotta say it's like, yes, that's it.
And also does it right at the beginning of the show.
There's a reference to baroness oxy and I spent a spin, A decent
amount of time. Talking about baroness foxy and
wondering why her name had cropped up and form a guess Mike
Haskins wrote in and pointed out to me that there'd been on BBC
television week or two before this this gun show that been
Sunday night theater. The Scarlet Pimpernel starring
Tony Britain him off Robin's Nest I guess as the yes as The
Scarlet Pimpernel. So obviously phone.
But instead phone Britain's dead.
That's right. Better known as friend brick.
Is there. And then finally, Nick burden
got in touch to say because I mentioned that there was footage
that there is footage that exists of the Goon show on film.
But there was no audio and had said that I wish that, you know,
we could work out what gunshot was that they were that they
were performing and Nick got in touch to remind me.
And actually, I've watched it this week that they identified.
There was a Victor Louis Smith sellers documentary a couple of
years ago and they threw lip reading and all that sort of
thing then. To identify that it was actually
drumroll. Queen Anne's Reign.
Oh, which brings us back to the beginning of our conversation.
We definitely, we definitely plan that Tyler didn't get to
finish that. So yeah.
So I've got your step up the research.
I will maybe have to bring somebody on to do my research
for me. Yes, pigeons.
Yes, you need your own looks better without you.
So Phil listen. Thank you again.
So much just just a little thank-you.
The little plug for the podcast in terms of where people can
hear it and whatnot. Yes.
Well if you like Doctor Who you want to listen to two old farts
rambling about said show if you just find it by Googling who's
he podcast, you can fasten all the usual social media plays up,
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iTunes. Google play Amazon music.
Where everywhere I've I've caught myself out today, Big
social media companies on the planet.
So so, so if you want to give us a listen, there we are.
Yeah. If you're into gardeners
question time, you don't like dr.
Who probably don't give it a listen but if you do like to
give it a listen, give it a listen.
Thank you again to fill. Thank you for listening.
Please follow on Twitter. It's at good show part.
Also, please rating review on, iTunes, lots of five-star
reviews bump up the numbers, bump up the profile and
everyone's happy. So, until next time, take care
and bye. Thank you again to fill.
Thank you for listening. Please follow on Twitter.
It's at good show part. Also, please rating review on,
iTunes, lots of five-star reviews bump up the numbers,
bump up the profile and everyone's happy.
So, until next time, take care and bye.