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Hello. 
Hello. 

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Who is it? 
It is King Arthur and these are 

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my Knights of the Round Table. 
Whose castle is this? 

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This is the castle of my master.
Go and tell your Master that we 

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have been charged by God with a 
sacred quest. 

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If he will give us food and 
shelter for the night, he can 

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join us in our quest for the 
Holy Grail. 

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Well, I'll ask him, but I don't 
think he'll be very keen. 

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He's already got 1. 
You see what he says? 

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They've already got one. 
Are you sure he's got one? 

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Oh, yes, it's Paranasa. 
I told them we already got one. 

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Hello and welcome to Goon Pod as
it is 50 years. 

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Can you believe it? 
Since Monty Python and the Holy 

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Grail first hit the screen, the 
cinema screen like a migratory 

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swallow over laden with 
coconuts, I thought Goon Pod 

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would mark the occasion. 
How could it not? 

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By releasing this bonus edition,
in which myself and the writer 

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and performer Tom Solinsky, 
who's 1/3 of the wonderful 

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podcast Best Pick, we we talk 
about the film and we resist the

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temptation more or less to just 
quote our favorite lines and 

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thus in the process render them 
leaden and dull. 

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And My Chat with Tom was first 
released as part of Goonpod Film

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Club, which offers members 
monthly chats about classic 

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British comedy films. 
Head over to patreon.com/goonpod

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to try A7 Day trial. 
The latest episode is on Shaun 

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of the Dead, but we've stretched
back as far as Kind Hearts and 

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Coronets. 
David Quantix on that one. 

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Anywho, enough of my bubbling. 
I will leave you to enjoy the 

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show. 
So Tom, welcome to the show. 

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Thank. 
You very much indeed, Tyler. 

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Thank you for having me. 
Yeah, I mean, I've been aware of

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your voice, I would say probably
for 18 months, two years now. 

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Because yeah, because I, I'm a, 
I'm a voracious podcast listener

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as well as podcaster. 
And I'm, I'm particularly keen 

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on film based podcasts when 
they're when they're done right.

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And there's a hell of a lot that
aren't done right, as I'm sure 

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you know, where research what's 
that? 

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This is kind of the, but I, I 
don't know how I stumbled upon 

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it, but I came across the 
podcast that you Co host called 

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best pick, which is well, 
there's three of you, isn't 

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there? 
That, that, that present best 

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pick, which is basically it's 
all about the Oscars. 

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Yeah. 
So we had this idea that we 

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wanted to go through all of the 
films that had won Best picture 

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of the Academy Awards, and we 
decided to try and keep it 

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interesting by doing that 
journey in a random order. 

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So at the beginning of the 
process, we had, I think it was 

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then 89 slips of paper with 
years and names of films on 

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them. 
And for each episode, we'd pick 

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a film out of the hat, and then 
that would determine which we 

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talk about the next time. 
And then we completed the 

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journey. 
And so, Tyler, I think you must 

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have joined us after that 
process had been completed. 

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So did you listen to them? 
Because we actually have two 

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feeds for the podcast. 
Did you listen to them in the 

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order they were recorded, or did
you use the feed which organizes

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the films chronologically 
according to their release? 

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So starting with Wings and then 
going on to the most recent 

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world, which now would be 
Oppenheimer. 

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I chronologically. 
You did so not in the order we 

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we recorded them. 
No chronologically. 

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So what was that like? 
Because we'll be, we'll be in in

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some podcasts talking about, oh,
this is something we referenced 

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back in Podcast 34, but that for
you is going to be 10 podcasts, 

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hence. 
Well, I excuse me, we're both of

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us suffering a little bit, 
aren't we? 

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I must tell them. 
There's a little, yes, but as of

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this morning I've graduated from
Lemsip. 

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Back onto coffee. 
All right, OK, Well, I mean, I, 

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I, I love old films and I, I did
set out to try and watch every 

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film that you guys have covered,
but some of the earlier ones, 

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you know, it's, it's very easy 
to say, OK, I'll stick Day of 

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the Jackal on instead. 
You know what? 

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I only just watched the original
Day of the Jackal. 

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I was inspired by the new is it 
Netflix? 

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The new Eddie Redmayne version, 
and I thought well before I 

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watched this, I really should go
back and watch the original and 

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the 1997 Mark, the Hayden Jones 
version. 

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The original is fantastic. 
I had such a good time watching 

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that. 
And one of the things that 

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really struck me is that at no 
point does anyone get in Michael

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Lonsdale's way and say to him, 
you've you've you've pushed this

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too far. 
You've got $40 to wrap up the 

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case. 
You're, you're a loose cannon. 

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They just give him every single 
resource that he could possibly 

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want and he back channels and he
still only barely manages to 

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stop Edward Fox in time. 
And it's and that made was one 

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of the many things that made the
97 one so boring, because all of

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those tiresome police procedural
cliches were brought to the 

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fore. 
Yeah, I, I, I've said this many 

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times. 
And because I have, I have 

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ranked them. 
Day of the Jackal is my all time

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favorite film. 
Oh. 

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Great choice. 
And I have seen the Jackal a few

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times. 
I actually it's kind of a guilty

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pleasure, The Jackal, the Bruce 
Willis Jackal. 

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I think there's there's some 
nice stuff in it. 

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The stuff with Jack Black is 
very good, but I can't get past 

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Richard Gere playing Declan 
McQueen of the IRA. 

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It's so ludicrous. 
Tapping the moan in two years. 

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It's so. 
Good. 

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So OK, so best pick. 
There's you, there's there's 

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John and Jessica, Isn't it 
Jessica? 

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That's right. 
Yes, Jessica Regan. 

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I'm going to ask you which in 
your in your opinion is the was 

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the best Oscar year just in 
terms of the film that won and 

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also the the other nominees if 
you like. 

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I mean, it's hard to get past 
1939, which is one of those anis

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mirabilis, those once in a 
lifetime years where basically 

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you can kind of imagine every 
film being nominated, and they 

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nominated about 10 back in those
days for Best Picture like they 

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do today. 
You can kind of imagine almost 

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any of them winning Best 
Picture. 

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It's the year that Gone With the
Wind won everything, but Gone 

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With the Wind was up against The
Wizard of Oz and Goodbye, Mr. 

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Chips and all these other 
incredible classics. 

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So that's got to be up there. 
My favorite film. 

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As you've shed yours. 
He's also a Best Picture winner,

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and that would be The Apartment 
from 1960. 

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I don't remember what else it 
was up against off the top of my

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head, but that's a very special 
film. 

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Spartacus. 
Wouldn't it be Spartacus? 

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Or was that? 
Spartacus is around then. 

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I don't know it's exactly then. 
Anyway. 

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Kubrick never had much luck at 
the Oscars. 

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No. 
And what about worst year? 

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Would it? 
Would it be driving Miss Daisy? 

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Would that be the year that? 
I mean, Green Book is pretty 

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egregious. 
Crash is fairly dire. 

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I'm one of those people that 
sticks up for Shakespeare in 

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Love for a couple of reasons, 
which I know puts me the 

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minority. 
But I think it is a problem for 

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Shakespeare love that it's doing
something very difficult to make

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you look very easy. 
And I think that tricks people 

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into thinking that a film like 
Saving Private Ryan, which is 

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the film that quote UN quote 
should have won, is a bigger 

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achievement. 
But there's a lot of complexity 

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to Shakespeare love and I think 
that the message of Saving 

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Private Ryan is a bit muddled. 
I don't think it's 100% an anti 

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war movie because if you track 
the ark of the Tom Hanks 

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character, it's sort of the 
story of a man who loses his 

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faith in the idea of warfare and
then regains it. 

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I'm not 100% sure that's a 
message I can get behind. 

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There's wonderful stuff in 
Saving Private Ryan, not just in

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the 1st 20 minutes. 
But if you ask me which film I'd

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like to go and watch now, I 
would go and watch Shakespeare 

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in Love. 
I I rewatched Private Ryan 

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literally over Christmas. 
I've probably seen it 6-7 times 

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and I always forget. 
And this. 

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Is this a spoiler? 
I suppose it is. 

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I'll say it anyway. 
It's it's 25 years old for God's

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sake. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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There's such a limitation to 
these things, I'm sure it's 

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fine. 
Yeah, it's Bookend. 

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We're going to spoil Holy Grail 
as if we ever get to Holy Grail.

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Absolutely. 
Because because Private Ryan's 

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bookended by modern day veteran 
visiting the French cemetery, 

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cemeteries, War cemetery. 
And you, you, you think that 

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it's the Tom, I was going to say
Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks character,

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but it turns out at the end, no,
it's the Matt Damon character. 

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It's Matt Damon. 
That's right. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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Private. 
Ryan So they met they they did 

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that very well, I thought. 
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's it's a 

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nifty listen. 
And this is not so much of A 

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slam on Private Ryan, which is a
terrific film, more of a let's 

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give Shakespeare Love a chance 
because Shakespeare love does a 

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lot of things right as well. 
It's not a perfect film. 

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It's not my favorite best 
picture. 

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We're not by any means. 
But I I of the two, I prefer the

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one with the the frocks and the 
silliness of the people falling 

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over. 
Well, the perfect segue I 

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suppose. 
There we go. 

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So let's let's let's talk about 
the reason that we're here 

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today. 
So what? 

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While I'm I'm usually dubious 
about revisionist history, it 

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seems to me that in in recent 
times, a lot of historians, a 

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00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,040
lot of men called Dan and Dom 
and the like. 

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Some of my best friends are 
called Dan and. 

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Dom OK, how? 
Dare you? 

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Not them specifically, but but a
lot of a lot of these, a lot of 

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the, the, the, the, the theory 
these days is that the, the dark

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Ages weren't actually all that 
dark and that they were, they 

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were actually times of relative 
enlightenment and flourishing 

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artistic development. 
And so while this film, which is

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Monty Python and the Holy Grail,
doesn't flinch from depicting, 

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you know, dirt, disease and 
often bloody death, it it I was 

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watching it and I was thinking 
it does sort of make 10th 

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century Britain seem quite 
appealing, you know, compared. 

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To this day, this is an 
interesting question. 

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When is this film set? 
There's a very obvious caption 

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that says 932 AD. 
Yes, but the the stories of King

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Arthur are generally set in like
the 6th century. 

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00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,880
Oh yeah. 
Mort Darthur was published in 

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00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,280
the 15th century, but Gilliam 
and Jones have basically said 

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00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:07,720
that they were thinking about 
Chaucer. 

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00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,240
So it's, it's 13th, 14th 
century, that sort of time 

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00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,920
that's, that's influencing the 
aesthetic. 

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00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,840
And I, I think in some, in some 
early drafts, there were 

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different years given on 
screens. 

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00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,800
I think 930 of you just means a 
long time ago. 

202
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,160
Yes. 
You're not watching this as a 

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history lesson, are you? 
Really. 

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Not despite the presence of the 
historian who isn't AJP Taylor. 

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Well, there's a lot of people 
even to this day who still ham 

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00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,040
and Haw about that, that conceit
of framing the story within a 

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within like a what is it? 
A modern day history documentary

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00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,040
turned murder investigation. 
Yes, I mean, the Pythons would 

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00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,680
have grown up watching things 
like, I don't know exactly when 

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00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:50,800
all these things went out, but I
know around the same time there 

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00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,440
were things like The Ascent of 
Man and there's, you know, BBC 

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00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,400
documentaries and that's what 
they're spoofing there. 

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00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:02,360
But of course, the original 
draft was about 50%, let's call 

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it medieval and 50% modern day 
with so half of it set in 

215
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,120
Harrods. 
And some of that material was 

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00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,600
later repurposed for Monty 
Python series 4. 

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00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,560
So they can still have some 
Cleese Chapman material even 

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00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,200
though Cleese wasn't 
participating in front of the 

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00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,360
camera. 
And I I've seen you've got the, 

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00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,360
I've got it here, the Monty 
Python and the Holy Grail book, 

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00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,120
which is this slightly eccentric
script book. 

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I don't actually have that. 
I don't actually own that book. 

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00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,560
So it's got about 30 pages of 
the original draft, which 

224
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,160
includes all the Harrods stuff. 
I don't remember the Michael 

225
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,600
Ellis, so does Monty Python. 
So all that began life as a 

226
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,800
first draft of Holy Grail. 
Can I help you? 

227
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,360
Ah, yes please. 
I'm interested in buying an Ant.

228
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,840
Oh yes, and what price do you 
think you're paying? 

229
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,520
So Oh well, I haven't actually 
got as far as that. 

230
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:55,520
Well, so they start about half 
AP, but they can go as high as 

231
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,040
3P or even 3 1/2 P for a 
champion. 

232
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,120
Inflation I'm afraid. 
And. 

233
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,680
Then there's some other bits and
pieces like the hilarious letter

234
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:09,800
from the producer regarding the 
census view on some of the 

235
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,360
language, which we might come 
back to in a minute. 

236
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,960
And then there's the the script 
of the film. 

237
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,920
And I think this script is is a 
little bit of a fiction. 

238
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,280
So the the 30 pages of the first
draft have all been done on 

239
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,720
different typewriters. 
So somebody with a more forensic

240
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,920
enthusiasm that I have could 
probably figure out that's 

241
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,560
Michael Palin's typewriter 
versus John John Kleeser's 

242
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,520
typewriter versus Eric Idle's 
typewriter and so on. 

243
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,640
But the the screenplay that's 
presented is all in the same 

244
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,520
style, but not all of it 
reflects the film on screen. 

245
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,320
And some of it has sort of 
pencil emendations all in the 

246
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:53,160
same handwriting, which by and 
large conform the script to 

247
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:54,960
what's on screen, but not 
always. 

248
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,200
OK. 
Sometimes there are differences 

249
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,240
which haven't been changed, or 
sometimes there are things which

250
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,960
are in one version not the 
other. 

251
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,760
But it's a very, very 
interesting book and it's a it's

252
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,240
a fascinating document. 
The only big deletion from the 

253
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,120
shooting script is this, the 
story of King Brian the Wild. 

254
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,320
You ever read this? 
I've heard of this, yes. 

255
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,880
Yeah, yeah. 
So this would have come just 

256
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,080
after the Knights, you say Knee,
I think. 

257
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,680
And and writes out to Robin's 
minstrels because King Brian the

258
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:30,360
Wild is a king who its chief 
pleasure in life is assembling 

259
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,920
groups of close harmony singers 
and then when they start 

260
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,440
singing, murdering them with 
arrows. 

261
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,320
So, and there's lots of very, 
very funny stuff in here, but it

262
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,880
would have been about an extra, 
I don't know, 10 or 15 minutes, 

263
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,080
and it would have been 
expensive. 

264
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,000
And it's all just crossed out. 
But it's really, really funny. 

265
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:48,520
Who would have? 
Who would have played Brian? 

266
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,240
Well, there was some talk of 
Brian Blessed playing Brian, but

267
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,600
I don't know who wrote this. 
It, it feels Palin Jones to me, 

268
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,800
but I'm not absolutely sure. 
So I mean, Palin can play 

269
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,680
anything. 
So it, it could very well have 

270
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,080
been Palin if they weren't able 
to get Brian Blessed to do it. 

271
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,120
It wouldn't have been Eric Idle 
because Robin is in it. 

272
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,760
It wouldn't have been Chapman 
because Arthur's in it. 

273
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,560
So basically Brian's trying to 
get Arthur and his Knights to 

274
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,440
come and sing for him. 
And then the only reason they're

275
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,720
saved is that Brian turns up 
with his minstrels. 

276
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,880
There's some very, very funny 
stuff in there. 

277
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,800
Will you come and sing for King 
Brian? 

278
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,520
What King Brian the Wild? 
He's calmed down a lot. 

279
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,360
Yeah, I could imagine Brian 
Blessed in his essaying the role

280
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,360
as he did the King in the first 
series of Blackadder. 

281
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,160
Yes, exactly. 
So yeah, precisely. 

282
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:37,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

283
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,960
So yeah, this is a very 
interesting document. 

284
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,000
And the last time I watched 
this, which was last night, I, I

285
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,840
watched it with this book in 
hand because they're going to 

286
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,000
get a sense of what had changed 
and what was the same. 

287
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:54,120
I think, and maybe this is 
jumping to the end, but I think 

288
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,240
you said Palin can do anything. 
Of course he can. 

289
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,200
I actually think this is 
Cleese's film. 

290
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,200
What do you? 
Think there's a lot of Cleese in

291
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,280
it though. 
One of these that struck me for 

292
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,240
the first time this time is 
there's almost no Cleese Palin 

293
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,400
scenes. 
Apart from Castle Anthrax. 

294
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,800
Yeah, Castle Anthrax I think is 
the only one and it was when 

295
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,560
they were on screen together. 
I went hang on a minute. 

296
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,840
This is really the first time 
we've seen this because, as I'm 

297
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,280
sure you know, the reason that 
they, these six individuals were

298
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:28,120
assembled under a single banner 
was because John Cleese wanted 

299
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,640
to work with Michael Palin. 
That's right. 

300
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,920
And Palin said can Terry Jones 
come to and Cleese said can 

301
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,960
Graham Chapman come to? 
And then before long you had 

302
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,320
this slightly random assembly of
6 individuals. 

303
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,800
And some of our favourites 
sketches from their TV series 

304
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,400
are Cleese Palin, the Ministry 
of City Walks or the Parrot, The

305
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,760
Parrot Sketch or The Cheese 
Shop. 

306
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,880
And they're such a good pairing 
and they really enjoyed being on

307
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,400
stage with each other, yes, or 
in front of a camera with each 

308
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,680
other. 
But they hardly get to do it in 

309
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,200
this one, except for when 
Lancelot rescues. 

310
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,599
Galahad. 
Galahad from Castle Anthrax. 

311
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,880
Yeah, of course it was. 
It was the the the TV show that 

312
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,440
Palin was in that Cleese saw him
in. 

313
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,240
Yes. 
Obviously he would have known 

314
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,160
him. 
Was the complete and utter 

315
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,119
history it was, wasn't it? 
The complete. 

316
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,520
I think it was. 
Do not adjust your set. 

317
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:20,520
Was it? 
Do not adjust your set. 

318
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:21,480
I think so, yes. 
Right. 

319
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:25,240
OK, but but. 
It also had Eric Harden in it. 

320
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,280
And David, Jason. 
And David, Jason and Denise 

321
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,360
Coffey. 
And, and by the way, we're going

322
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,920
to you'll, you'll soon realise 
that I'd go all over the shop, 

323
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,760
just get him just just on 
Galahad. 

324
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,520
Yes. 
I was reading the Palin Diaries 

325
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:49,120
and he said that originally they
were going to have Galahad in a 

326
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,240
blonde wig or Palin. 
Oh yes, Palin in a blonde wig, 

327
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,600
obviously. 
But he he said it made him look 

328
00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:00,520
like he worked at a supermarket.
Yes. 

329
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,160
Is that his real hair? 
Because they all had quite long 

330
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,200
hair at. 
That I assume so, yeah. 

331
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,480
Apart from please, yes. 
To go back to your earlier 

332
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,000
point, yeah, a lot of the scenes
we remember most fondly about 

333
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,120
this are, are clay scenes. 
I actually think he's least 

334
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,480
funny as Lancelot. 
I don't, I don't, I think 

335
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,480
there's a little bit of a a sag 
in the film. 

336
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,600
It, it hits you out of the gate 
with like four or five 

337
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,440
incredibly funny sketches which 
don't really hang together as a 

338
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,040
story. 
But I I don't really care. 

339
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,760
And then you can kind of feel 
the pace slow a bit and it's 

340
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,880
roundabout Castle Anthrax. 
I start to think, no, they 

341
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,200
probably couldn't have sustained
that Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, 

342
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,240
bang pace. 
But it feels like there's a 

343
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,240
little bit of a sag here. 
And I know that they felt, for 

344
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,880
example, that the the three 
headed knight needed to be cut 

345
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,640
right down in order to work and 
that they weren't quite sure 

346
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,760
about the Knights who say knee. 
And that then in the edit, oh, 

347
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,840
those two scenes actually look a
bit too similar. 

348
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,560
And that's a bit of a shame. 
So there's some things there 

349
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,120
that were slowing them down. 
But every time Cleese is on 

350
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,960
screen, whether he's Tim the 
enchanter, or whether he's the 

351
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:05,640
French taunter, or even just 
that very underplayed second 

352
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,400
sketch which is the bring out, 
you're dead. 

353
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,840
He is just the one you eye keeps
being drawn to. 

354
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,160
Oh, and the the, the witch seat,
of course, where he's the 

355
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,680
foreman Ute yes. 
Yeah, where you can see Eric 

356
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,720
Idle biting his side in order to
keep from laughing. 

357
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,360
What makes you think she's a 
witch? 

358
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:32,520
Well, she turned me into a Newt.
A Newt got better. 

359
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,360
You say about Lancelot being 
perhaps the the weakest please 

360
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,360
character and I I, I, I see 
where you're coming from, but my

361
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:45,960
favorite scene is just that 
stupid scene of Lancelot running

362
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:53,160
towards the castle with that 
tense drum roll that endless on 

363
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:58,320
an endless loop. 
So a a rare bit of directorial 

364
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,600
comedy because. 
It's it doesn't sort of feel 

365
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,640
like something that would that 
would come in a Terry Gilliam 

366
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,600
film. 
And I can't think of another 

367
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,760
example from any other Terry 
Jones film, but clearly that's 

368
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,240
something which has been worked 
out in the edit. 

369
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,360
I don't think it's in the script
book, for example. 

370
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,800
And that was the last minute 
reshoot. 

371
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,360
They did some last minute 
reshoots on Hampstead Heath and 

372
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,280
which was round the back of 
Terry Gilliam's house and please

373
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,600
running towards the camera as 
well as the very first shot of 

374
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,360
Arthur and Patsy there. 
There's a pick ups on hamster 

375
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,400
teeth. 
Oh, really? 

376
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:34,560
OK, Yeah. 
OK. 

377
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,480
So when we see when we first 
see, that's a good excuse to 

378
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,920
talk about this. 
When we first see Arthur and 

379
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,880
Patsy, we see the the ingenious 
device of the coconut shells. 

380
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,480
Yes. 
And it seems common. 

381
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,080
It seems obvious now, but to to 
your knowledge, what's the 

382
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,520
earliest example of coconut 
shells being used as standings 

383
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,160
visibly, you know, on screen? 
Or is this the? 

384
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,040
Is this to your knowledge, the 
first time it's been used? 

385
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:08,120
I think it is because this is a 
radio gag, which, as a purveyor 

386
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,960
of all things goon related, 
you'll be intimately familiar 

387
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,040
with. 
And Spike Milligan was one of 

388
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,680
the first people, as I'm 
absolutely sure you know, who 

389
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,800
just tried to push the sound 
effects department to do a bit 

390
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,360
more than just footsteps on a 
gravel path and a door open 

391
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,720
closing. 
But they'd have a Bank of 

392
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,520
recorded sound effects. 
They'd have Foley artists with 

393
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,600
trays of gravel and, and doors 
that could open and close and so

394
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,440
on, and coconuts, because that's
how you make horses. 

395
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,640
So they they would have seen 
that from their radio days and 

396
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,920
and remembered it when the the 
news came that the budget wasn't

397
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,280
going to stretch to actual 
horses. 

398
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,280
Well. 
Well, one horse. 

399
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,960
Well, here we go. 
Here's here's something that 

400
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,120
hold on to your hat here Tom, 
because there does exist and 

401
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:56,120
this is goon related. 
There's are you aware of a show 

402
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:02,680
called Fred? 
No, OK, 1956 first proper 

403
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,800
attempt to translate goon humour
to TV. 

404
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:11,160
It was associated re diffusion 
and it was the first proper 

405
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,920
directorial gig for Dick Lester.
So he's working with Peter 

406
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,960
Sellers. 
Spike Milligan comes on board. 

407
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,680
We've got the the the goon Rep 
company like Graham Stark and 

408
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:27,320
Valentine Dial people like that.
OK, very few episodes and well, 

409
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,720
there's only I think 1 1/2 
episodes of a show called Fred 

410
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,600
that exist. 
And in one of the existing 

411
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:41,160
segments they do a sketch about 
the Count of Monte Cristo, and 

412
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,280
right at the beginning you've 
got Sellers as the Count 

413
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,560
knocking 2 coconut shells 
together to symbolize riding up 

414
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,520
on a horse. 
Amazing, now that according to 

415
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,400
the. 
Rehearsal the king has been 

416
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,800
thrown into prison Which prison 
EC prison EC prison We oh, we 

417
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:22,280
must get that immediate and of 
course it was that's. 1956 I'd 

418
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,760
I'd like to think perhaps one of
the pythons sword at the time 

419
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,400
scribbled it away, but it's it's
it's an obvious gag if you think

420
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,640
about it there isn't it to to. 
Visualize there's a there's a 

421
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,080
continuum, I think from two 
people having the same idea 

422
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:42,840
totally independently and then 
going through you did see it 20 

423
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,400
years ago and you half remember 
it. 

424
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,000
But actually your experience of 
coming up with the gag is the 

425
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,680
same as creating it de Novo to 
oh, I thought of this, but then 

426
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,240
I have remembered someone else 
has used it. 

427
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,760
But I think I can get away with 
it too. 

428
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,000
I'm just ripping this off, and I
think all we can do is speculate

429
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,800
when it comes to any particular 
situation. 

430
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,760
But I think all points along 
that continuum are equally 

431
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,720
plausible, and I tend to want to
give people the benefit of the 

432
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,040
doubt. 
I tend to want to look at the 

433
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,280
more creative end of the 
spectrum, because these are very

434
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,880
creative people we're talking 
about who don't need to RIP off 

435
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,400
other people's ideas in order to
get creative inspiration. 

436
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,360
Absolutely. 
I'm not saying any of these is 

437
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:21,040
more or less likely than the 
other, but I'm saying just 

438
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,800
because A preceded B does not 
mean that B copied A. 

439
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:24,640
Oh. 
Absolutely. 

440
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,280
And just on that I just said 
that was the most, well, it was 

441
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,760
the most successful transfer of 
goon humour to the small screen.

442
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,640
They did also the same earmaker 
film short film called The Case 

443
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,400
of the Mukanese Battle Horn. 
Yes, I have heard of that. 

444
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:46,040
Now that was the supporting 
feature for Holy Grail in 96. 

445
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:46,840
Brilliant. 
Yeah. 

446
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,600
Just to get people in the right 
sort of mood, I suppose. 

447
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,480
Now, I probably saw this film on
V8. 

448
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,000
Well, I did see it on VHS video,
you know, probably late 80s. 

449
00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,200
Me and a friend, we used to rent
out every week or every couple 

450
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,680
of weeks from the video library 
and memorized it and all the 

451
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960
rest of it. 
Now I bought it on DVD about 

452
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,760
1215 years ago and was 
completely thrown because on the

453
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,440
DVD it begins with the the 
opening credits of the film 

454
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,640
don't just. 
On the job. 

455
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,280
So this is one of the things 
that the Pythons are known for 

456
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,600
and Joel Morris writes and talks
very eloquently about this, but 

457
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,000
he's absolutely right. 
One of the things was that 

458
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,520
wherever there was fertile 
ground, they wanted to fill it 

459
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,120
with jokes. 
So even from the earliest 

460
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,640
episodes of Flying Circus, they 
were messing around with the 

461
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,480
titles, putting them in the 
wrong places, making you think 

462
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,040
that the program ended before it
had all that kind of stuff. 

463
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,320
That the spine of the script 
book, which I have here that on 

464
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,800
the front it says Monty Python 
and the Holy Grail brackets 

465
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,880
book, but the spine reads Monty 
Python, Icktan, Holy Grail and 

466
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,240
book. 
So obviously the the titles of 

467
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:14,880
the film are so Michael Palin, 
who came up with those was 

468
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,760
thinking about watching Bergman 
films at repertory cinemas when 

469
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,280
he was working on this. 
And they had no money for any 

470
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,760
any kind of elaborate titles. 
But they needed to try and get 

471
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,320
the film off to start because 
early previews have been 

472
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,360
disappointing. 
And so he came up with these 

473
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,400
very, very cheap to to shoot 
titles with just stop music and 

474
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,840
letters on a on a on a black 
background. 

475
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,000
But the gag of the Swedish 
subtitles is incredibly funny. 

476
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:47,000
You first saw this film on Vhsi 
first encountered this film via 

477
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,600
a cassette tape copy that a 
friend of mine had made of the 

478
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,840
record album. 
OK, Yeah. 

479
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Yeah, so I know the record album
in some ways better than I know 

480
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,480
the film. 
And so when I finally got to see

481
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,880
the film at the National Film 
Theatre aged about 12, I was 

482
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,120
totally unprepared for these 
opening titles. 

483
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,040
So I had a very similar 
experience actually, that John 

484
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,440
Cleese has, because he said, you
know, he'd been off working on 

485
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,240
his shorts with Connie Booth. 
Romance with a double bass. 

486
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,040
Oh yeah. 
And came back after all this 

487
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,560
hard work had been done, cutting
it down, re editing it and and 

488
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,560
creating these titles and was 
totally unprepared for Michael 

489
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,720
Palin's titles. 
And, and similarly, I was 

490
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,160
falling out of my seat laughing 
basically before the film had 

491
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,320
even begun. 
And so I think when the DVD came

492
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,920
out, they wanted to try and give
people a similar experience. 

493
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,880
And so they got hold of this old
Bob Munkhouse film and paste it 

494
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,600
on whatever it is. 95 seconds of
that. 

495
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,760
I genuinely thought they'd been 
a mistake at the DVD pressing 

496
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,520
plant. 
Which is what you're supposed to

497
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,640
think. 
Have you ever heard the record 

498
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,640
album? 
I have years ago, years ago. 

499
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,600
I yeah, I think Mark Kermade, I 
think, I think he thinks that 

500
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,080
the opening credits sequence is 
the best bit of the film. 

501
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,000
I mean, it's a high bar because 
it's an incredibly funny film 

502
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,640
pretty much all the way through,
but those titles do take some 

503
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,960
beating. 
It's definitely the funniest 

504
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,880
title sequence. 
Let's. 

505
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,080
Now stand aside, worthy 
adversary. 

506
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,400
Tis but a scratch, a scratch 
your arms off. 

507
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,200
No, it isn't. 
But what's that then? 

508
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,120
I've had worse, you liar. 
Come on, ya tansy. 

509
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,040
Victory is mine. 
We thank the Lord that in thy 

510
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,320
Come on. 
Then what? 

511
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,080
How about you? 
You're indeed brave tonight, but

512
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,360
the fight is mine. 
Oh, and enough, eh? 

513
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,160
Look, you stupid bastard, you've
got no arms left. 

514
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,240
Yes, I have. 
Look, just a flesh wound. 

515
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,080
I suppose one of the most, 
probably the most is it the most

516
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,840
famous sequence in the film, the
Black Knight sequence? 

517
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,320
I guess it is. 
Or is it? 

518
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,240
So many sequences are so famous.
But yes, that's that's up there.

519
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,440
Now I read about something that 
you wrote a long, long time ago 

520
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,880
about that sequence. 
Let me just let me just bring it

521
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,640
up here. 
So you were talking about how 

522
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,320
it's so the the violence in it 
is so cartoonish and over the 

523
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,120
top that it's funny if it. 
Was Oh yeah, this is me talking 

524
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,880
about black humour. 
Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

525
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,320
This is not black humour. 
This is. 

526
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,240
This is cartoon humour. 
This is cartoon in my view. 

527
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,080
Yeah, so you said that the pain 
and dismemberment is presented 

528
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,360
unrealistically and we feel able
to laugh at it and not withdraw 

529
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,440
in horror. 
It still sticks with me how 

530
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,560
surprised I was. 
And whatever age I would have 

531
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,880
been at the, I wouldn't have 
used this word at the time. 

532
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,400
But the chutzpah, you know, just
just the, the, the total 

533
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,560
dismemberment or more or less 
total dismemberment. 

534
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,640
And it's just, I mean, it would 
be a perfect sketch, just just a

535
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,840
sketch in isolation as part of 
the the TV series as well, 

536
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,400
wouldn't it? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

537
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,320
Yeah. 
And it's very, it's very Cleese.

538
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,240
I'm making guesses here about 
who wrote what. 

539
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,040
Often you can make an educated 
guess just based on who's 

540
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,280
playing the parts. 
But this really feels like a 

541
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,000
Cleese sketch because there's a 
relentlessness to please his 

542
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,480
comedy, and that this is really 
typified here. 

543
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,240
You know, Basil Fawlty will not 
give up once he sets his mind on

544
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,080
something. 
And similarly, the Black Knight 

545
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,920
here absolutely will not 
surrender. 

546
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,680
And even right at the end when 
he's sitting there limbless, he 

547
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,200
just, he says, all right, we'll 
call it a draw, which is a 

548
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,400
fantastic punchline. 
I was trying to find out because

549
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,640
I remember in the Palin Diaries 
he obviously talks about 

550
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,120
Chapman's alcohol dependency 
around this time. 

551
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,360
Now, I couldn't actually find it
for some reason for the purposes

552
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,800
of this, but I'm sure that I 
read somewhere that he was. 

553
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,240
During the filming of this, 
Chapman was struggling quite a 

554
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,680
bit and yet you wouldn't know it
on screen. 

555
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:42,120
The amount of physical business 
that Chapman puts in, He seems 

556
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,040
on top of his game. 
Well, we always have the edit. 

557
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,120
Yeah, I know. 
You don't know what what takes 

558
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,480
weren't used. 
And I do think actually that 

559
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,240
Gilliam playing the Green 
Knights, I think that that 

560
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,440
earlier fight is a bit more 
sophisticated. 

561
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,200
It's a bit more elaborate than 
the fight between Please and 

562
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,920
Chapman. 
People say this about great 

563
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,200
films that they particularly 
comedy films. 

564
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,680
Every time you watch it, even if
you've watched it 2530 times, 

565
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,240
there's always something new. 
There's a couple of times in 

566
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,480
this, There's a couple of bits 
in this when I was re watching 

567
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,400
it, the the witch scene with 
Connie Booth as the witch as the

568
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,320
accused witch. 
There's there's a bit, there's a

569
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,440
little. 
Just a glimpse of a man in the 

570
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,920
crowd with this face full of 
shaving foam. 

571
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,760
Two shots of him that's it's 
it's not not very medieval 

572
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,800
shaving foam. 
It looks very much as if it's 

573
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,440
just been squirted out of a can.
That's very odd. 

574
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,080
And and Sir Robin's Shield has a
chicken on it. 

575
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,480
That's the first time I noticed.
Yes, yeah, I believe all of the 

576
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,400
Alder Knights Shields have some 
sort of appropriate heraldic 

577
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,080
emblem. 
But yes, Robins is a chicken. 

578
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,400
What, what sort of tension was 
there because we had the, the, 

579
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,240
the two Terry's on director 
duty. 

580
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,440
What was the what was the 
tension like between the two of 

581
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,880
them? 
I think it there was quite so I 

582
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,240
think there wasn't very much 
tension between the two of them 

583
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,120
because I think they both felt 
that they were going to have to 

584
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,840
learn how to direct a film while
directing a film, which wasn't 

585
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,240
ideal. 
They essentially directed on 

586
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,120
ultimate days. 
But I think each could call upon

587
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,720
the other if they wanted to get 
some advice about something. 

588
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,800
But you know, things got after a
very bad start on that, that 

589
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,160
first day of filming when 
they're up in Scotland on on 

590
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,480
Take One shot 1, the camera 
broke. 

591
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,080
Oh, this? 
This was the bridge of Death 

592
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,760
scene, Yeah. 
I think it was it the bridge of 

593
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:37,920
death. 
It was, I know that was very 

594
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,040
early in the shoot, but I, I, I 
do know that yes, I think it 

595
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,760
might have been actually. 
And it so they, they had to 

596
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,960
complete the days filming 
without being able to record any

597
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,240
sound because they had a second 
camera. 

598
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,400
But it, it didn't have the, the 
necessary capability. 

599
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,440
I'm not quite sure what the 
issue was because the sound 

600
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080
would be recorded separately 
anyway, But it, it, it lacked 

601
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,600
something which allowed them to 
sync it up to the sound 

602
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,680
recording. 
So they had to record everything

603
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,400
silent and dub the the footage 
on afterwards because I had very

604
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,080
little time to do all this. 
I think the whole thing was shot

605
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,400
in about six weeks. 
So I think the problem I had is 

606
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,280
that it's a bit bit like having 
estranged parents that the rest 

607
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,800
of the cast felt if they didn't 
get the answer they wanted off 1

608
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,760
Terry, they could go to the 
other and see if they can get a 

609
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,480
different response. 
And Please, in particular felt 

610
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,840
that Terry Gilliam was spending 
a lot of time worrying about 

611
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,600
what things looked like and not 
very much about whether or not 

612
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,960
things were funny. 
And he remembers doing the scene

613
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,639
with Eric Idle where Concorde 
gets the arrow in the chest and 

614
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,600
finding it a bit difficult and 
finding the first couple of 

615
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,679
takes weren't really funny. 
And then getting it what both he

616
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:45,000
and Eric thought were just 
right. 

617
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,679
And I mean slightly puzzles when
I think it was Gilliam asked for

618
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,719
a few more takes. 
And I never felt any of them 

619
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,639
were quite as good as that one. 
And then when he saw the edit, 

620
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:56,560
he said, well, hang on a minute.
You know, the, the funny take is

621
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,560
take three, don't you? 
And Terry Gibbons said we 

622
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,440
couldn't use that one because 
there's too much smoke, right? 

623
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,960
So please ask to see it. 
And, and it was clear there was 

624
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,760
a bit more smoke than would be 
ideal, but it was perfectly 

625
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,040
usable. 
And he made a very strong case 

626
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,400
for it to be put back in. 
And I think it was. 

627
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,640
I think that is the take that 
we've got. 

628
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,760
So they're all these things. 
They're just they're kind of 

629
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,960
figuring out as they go. 
And there are some there are 

630
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,440
some very Gilliamy shots in it. 
But then there's there's also a 

631
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,440
few examples of real directorial
restraint, like the very funny 

632
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,080
almost Abbott and Costello scene
with Michael Palin trying to get

633
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,640
through to the two guards of 
what he wants, what it is he 

634
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,920
wants them to do. 
It's it's a single locked off 

635
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,800
shot that lasts for about two or
three minutes. 

636
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,320
And, you know, these are these 
are now very seasoned stage and 

637
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,040
television performers who are 
used to having to learn lots of 

638
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,840
dialogue and repeat it fairly 
faultlessly and all tipsy Greg 

639
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,600
Chapman has to do his hiccup, 
which isn't too bad, but anyone 

640
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,920
else would have at least got 
more coverage. 

641
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,440
But I think that's the only 
angle they did it from because 

642
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,880
they just thought, well, we got 
it, let's move on. 

643
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,240
Yeah, that's that. 
That's that whole sequence with.

644
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,600
This is what I can't understand.
So you've got Prince Herbert, 

645
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,160
who's the very fae, sickly 
looking Terry Jones and his 

646
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,320
father. 
Who's is he? 

647
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,800
If he's the Prince, then is his 
father the king is? 

648
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,920
There seems to be a lot of, a 
lot of kings knocking around of,

649
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,840
of different area. 
I mean we, we, I don't quite 

650
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,600
know what area of the country 
Mercier occupied, but we seem 

651
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,480
now to have gone more to 
Yorkshire judging by the accents

652
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,320
that people using. 
That's it. 

653
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:35,240
I built this Kingdom up from 
nothing. 

654
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,240
Well, I started here. 
All of us were swamped. 

655
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,200
Well, the king said it was daft 
to build a castle on the swamp, 

656
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,680
but I built it all the same just
to show him they sank into the 

657
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,760
swamp. 
So I built the second one that 

658
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,440
sank into the swamp. 
So I built a third one that 

659
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,240
burned down fellow, but then 
sank into the swamp. 

660
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:57,400
But the 4th one stayed up. 
And that's what you're going to 

661
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,360
get, lad. 
The strongest castle on these 

662
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,000
islands. 
But I don't want any of that. 

663
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,320
I'd rather rather what I'd 
rather. 

664
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,600
Just. 
Sing. 

665
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,320
Stop that. 
Stop that. 

666
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,800
You're not going into a song 
while I'm here. 

667
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,840
No. 
Listen, lad, in 20 minutes 

668
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,920
you're getting married to a girl
whose father owns the biggest 

669
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,920
tracts of open land in Britain. 
But I don't want land. 

670
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,120
Listen, Alice Herbert. 
Herbert. 

671
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,720
We live on a bloody swamp. 
We need all the land we can get.

672
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,240
But I don't like her. 
Don't like her. 

673
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,920
What's wrong with her? 
She's beautiful, she's rich. 

674
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,560
She's got huge track for land. 
And so the quest for the Holy 

675
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,120
Grail seems to have taken us up 
and down the British Isles. 

676
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,120
Of course everything shot in 
Scotland apart from the stuff in

677
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,160
Twickenham and hamster death. 
And of course. 

678
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,200
Mainly the same castle. 
You know that story, don't you? 

679
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,240
Oh, go. 
On. 

680
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,000
Well, they scouted all these 
castles that we're going to use.

681
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:58,080
And then with like a couple of 
days before filming started, the

682
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,400
National Trust said, well, hang 
on a minute, you're going to 

683
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640
make fun of these castles and 
denied the permission to film 

684
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,040
with any of them. 
And I think it was Gilliam who 

685
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:11,240
said so blood, torture, murder 
in these castles is all fine, 

686
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:12,720
but comedy? 
You must be joking. 

687
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,040
So there was one Scottish castle
which they've scouted, Dune 

688
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,560
Castle, which was privately held
and so the the National Trust 

689
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,680
couldn't keep them away from it.
So basically every castle you 

690
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,880
see is Dune Castle from a 
different angle. 

691
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,320
So the interior of Anthrax 
Castle is Dune Castle, the 

692
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,120
interior swamp castle is Dune 
Castle. 

693
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,360
The exterior of the French 
taunting scene is Dune Castle. 

694
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,880
There's a couple of cutaways I 
think. 

695
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,920
I think the castle I go to at 
the end, there's a cutaway like 

696
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,720
as an establishing shot of it, 
and I think that is a castle in 

697
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,800
Wales that the cinematographer 
just went off and did a bit of 

698
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,840
second unit. 
Shooting for Castle Arg is that?

699
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,840
Castle Arg yes I think that's 
that's not Doonecastle. 

700
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,400
Almost every other castle is 
Doonecastle. 

701
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,160
OK this. 
Was done well because the say 

702
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,120
this was done on a shoestring. 
I actually went back and checked

703
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,920
this because it's often said, 
oh, this was, you know, this 

704
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,160
incredibly cheap film. 
And the budget is in the back of

705
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,280
the of the book. 
And the total budget with film 

706
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,720
is 229,000 lbs, which sounds 
like absolutely nothing at all. 

707
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,880
I did a little bit of checking, 
a little bit of arithmetic. 

708
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,880
Adjusted for inflation, that's 
about 2,000,000 lbs, which is 

709
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,160
low. 
Still not much. 

710
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,720
Micro budget it's it's is low, 
but for example the same year's 

711
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:25,160
Carry On film cost a little bit 
less. 

712
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,640
To be fair, that was on set in a
caravan park, but The Rocky 

713
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,240
Horror Picture Show cost three 
times as much. 

714
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Right. 
Well, it's a bit Then you've got

715
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:40,080
the the they can they can get 
away with having the the black 

716
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,720
beast that lives in The Cave, 
the. 

717
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,240
Black Beast of Arc. 
We don't need, well, they didn't

718
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,520
have CGI back then. 
We don't need expenses. 

719
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,960
You've got Gilliam. 
Just got Gilliam just drawing 

720
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,400
something and having a heart 
attack on screen but. 

721
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,800
They're generally speaking 
working within their means. 

722
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,880
None of it looks impoverished. 
And the fact that you do have. 

723
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,640
Two people behind the camera who
care about what it looks like 

724
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,360
does mean it has this consistent
look like if you go back to and 

725
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,800
now for something completely 
different, yes, there are some 

726
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,400
good performances in that, but 
there's no there's no sense of 

727
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,800
style or place. 
There are no directorial 

728
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,720
flourishes apart from a couple 
of low angle shots here and 

729
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,440
there. 
It is ATV production shot on 35 

730
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,160
millimetre film, whereas this is
a film and I think that does 

731
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,640
make a difference. 
Does it make it funny or? 

732
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,080
I don't know, but it makes it a 
more complete experience. 

733
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,400
But Python was always about the 
tension between Terry Jones and 

734
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,200
John Cleese. 
That's kind of what defines it. 

735
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,160
And here's that, that tension 
that is played out again, and I 

736
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,480
think once again a very nice 
balance is found. 

737
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,880
I thought the scene the sequence
with the the large wooden rabbit

738
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,200
being. 
Dropped on Neil Innis. 

739
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,000
Yeah, basically it was. 
That was so well done and so 

740
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,560
looked so effective even now 
and. 

741
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,440
How do they do it? 
They got a large wooden rabbit 

742
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,960
and they hoisted it up on a 
crane and they topped it on the 

743
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:09,880
Ennis. 
Neil Ennis who he turns up About

744
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,200
a week into filming, Neil Ennis 
arrives up in Scotland and he 

745
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,800
said everyone was rejoicing when
he arrived. 

746
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,480
Such a nice guy. 
He's he's delightful. 

747
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,320
I saw him do a one man show at 
the Edinburgh Fringe years ago. 

748
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,400
He came out with a banjo and 
played urban Spaceman and 

749
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,720
everyone clapped and he said 
thank you for that lovely warm 

750
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:35,800
round of applause, for that 
medley of my greatest hit. 

751
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,240
Yeah, his his song about Braves 
of Robin is such an earworm. 

752
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,120
Yeah. 
And and you kind of touched it 

753
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,720
earlier a little bit. 
It's the only use that I picked 

754
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:55,320
up of of the F bomb in the film.
Yeah. 

755
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,480
So if you haven't seen the 
script book then I might read 

756
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,120
now this letter from the from 
the producer. 

757
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,760
It's just Dear Mike, which I 
imagine is Michael Palin, but it

758
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,800
could be someone else. 
The census representative, Tony 

759
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,080
Kerpel came along to Friday's 
screening and gave his opinion 

760
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,400
of the film's probable 
certificate. 

761
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,000
He thinks this film will be a A,
which would be the equivalent of

762
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,200
15 today. 
But it would be possible given 

763
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,320
some dialogue cuts to make the 
film an A rating which would 

764
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:19,840
increase the audience. 
So that would take it down to 

765
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,160
PG. 
For an A. 

766
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,280
We would have to lose as many 
shits as possible. 

767
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,680
Take Jesus Christ out if 
possible, lose I fart in your 

768
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:35,720
general direction, lose the oral
sex, lose oh fuck off lose make 

769
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,160
castanets out of your testicles.
I would like to get back to the 

770
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:40,960
sensor and agree to lose the 
shits. 

771
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,640
Take out the odd Jesus Christ 
and lose oh fuck off. 

772
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,840
But to retain fart in your 
general direction, castanetical 

773
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,720
testicles and oral sex and ask 
him for an A rating on that 

774
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:53,320
basis. 
This is ludicrous. 

775
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:59,720
Kind of horse trading that goes.
Off by Christ and there's a goon

776
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,240
show. 
Sorry to bring it back to that, 

777
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:02,640
but. 
Damn. 

778
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,400
Oh no, you must. 
There's a goon show. 

779
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:10,440
So the goons had a number of 
series and and towards the end 

780
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,680
of the run, sort of series 8 was
probably probably the weakest, 

781
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,240
the probably the weakest point 
because they kept going through 

782
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:19,240
producers. 
They had about four different 

783
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:21,840
producers for series 8 and one 
of the producers that they got 

784
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,520
didn't like the show at all. 
He was, he was hostile. 

785
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:32,600
And there was a bit in the 
script for a show where there's 

786
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,000
a house and it was on Minges 
Lane, right? 

787
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,400
And this producer refused to 
allow them to use the word 

788
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,600
Minges. 
So they just changed it, changed

789
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,640
it to Fairy Cake Lane just to 
just to prove a point I suppose.

790
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,320
I'm always amazed that Kenny 
Everett got away with having a 

791
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:57,560
character called Cupid Stunt on 
on BBC One or two every night 

792
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,520
for weeks. 
No. 

793
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:04,480
Well, yes, but but then whoever 
the head of Light Ant was at the

794
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,520
time worked it out eventually 
and told and told Barry Cryer, 

795
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,160
you're going to have to change 
that. 

796
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:17,360
And so he did, and the character
became known as Mary Hinge. 

797
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:24,480
Barry Tucker and Marty Feldman 
tell a story which I don't know 

798
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,520
if it's true or not, but when 
they were working on Round the 

799
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,280
Horn, they were always A filling
the scripts with duble entendres

800
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,600
and then B, making fun of the 
fact that the scripts were full 

801
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:39,600
of duble entendres. 
And they wondered because often 

802
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,080
things would get cut and they'd 
appeal and it would go up the 

803
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,920
chains and eventually it got to 
the director general. 

804
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,000
It was supposed to be Hugh 
Weldon, who would just say, I 

805
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,360
see nothing wrong with this. 
And then it would stay in. 

806
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,880
And Barry took remembers 
wondering, did he not get the 

807
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,880
jokes? 
Is that possible? 

808
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,160
And ask him about it years later
when he's retired. 

809
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,080
Like, why did you let us keep 
all that stuff in? 

810
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,480
And Hugh Weldon just leaned over
and said I like dirty shows. 

811
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,920
Yes, I was that. 
Was that Hugh Weldon or was it 

812
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,080
Hugh Carlton Green? 
Oh, it could it be Hugh Carlton 

813
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,240
Green? 
I might have got my Hughes. 

814
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,000
Graham Graham, Greene's brother,
so I guess quite liberal. 

815
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:23,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Mention Castle Anthrax, which I 

816
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,800
think is I think is probably 
where it it let the film lags a 

817
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:29,840
little bit. 
Yeah. 

818
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:38,280
Although Carol Cleveland is Zoot
and Zoot's twin. 

819
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,480
What's the other? 
Character called Dingo. 

820
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,960
That's it. 
Carol Cleveland is wonderful. 

821
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,560
The the right at the bit where 
Palin gets dragged off and she 

822
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:53,320
just turns and goes oh shit, I 
just thought Chef's kiss I. 

823
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,240
Mean I, I find that the Knights 
Usain knee and Castle Anthrax 

824
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,760
together because they're into 
cuts, which is a sign that the 

825
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,080
pace is slowing a little bit. 
I, I sort of feel a little bit 

826
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,480
of energy comes out of the film.
And yet there are half a dozen 

827
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,360
wonderful lines in both of those
sequences that I would hate to 

828
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:14,120
lose. 
But I I said before that they 

829
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,840
were very worried after early 
previews. 

830
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,640
They made a lot of changes. 
They scrapped Neil in his score 

831
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,200
and replaced it with library 
music. 

832
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:22,640
They tightened up a lot of 
things. 

833
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,800
And at the last minute, before I
think the last preview, which I 

834
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,080
think might have been in in LA, 
Terry Jones got nervous about 

835
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,600
the bit where Carol Cleveland 
turns to the camera and says, do

836
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,000
you think this scene should have
been cut? 

837
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,720
And he ordered it taken out and 
it was his last chance before 

838
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,560
the the negative cutters got to 
work. 

839
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,480
And then at that preview, that 
little moment got a huge 

840
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:47,880
reaction. 
But it was too late. 

841
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,200
The the scene had gone. 
So that's why on your DVD, as 

842
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,160
well as starting with Dennis on 
the job, it may also have 

843
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,280
splashed across it with the 
missing 23 seconds restored. 

844
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,400
And that's that little bit of 
Carol Cleveland saying the scene

845
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,800
should have been cast. 
And everyone's saying get on 

846
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,520
with it. 
Yes, yes, yeah. 

847
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,800
That's the that's that's that's 
on the DVD, the bit with the 

848
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,840
historian, the TV historian, who
by the way, I am I right in 

849
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,600
saying that I I should have 
checked? 

850
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,400
Am I right in saying that the 
historian, Frank is the same? 

851
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,800
Is the old guy in life O Brian? 
Oh, I don't know. 

852
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,560
I know he's the he's the body in
bring out You're dead. 

853
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,200
It's the same actor, John Young.
I don't know if he's also in 

854
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,320
life, O Brian, I think. 
He's the one that gets stoned or

855
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:41,120
is is up for a stoning. 
Could be, I mean, do you do you 

856
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,520
want to check? 
I'm going to check. 

857
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,520
Yeah, Monty Python Holy Grail 
Live for Brian. 

858
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,760
There you go, Matthias. 
Matthias yes. 

859
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,280
Yes. 
So it's the same guy. 

860
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,200
Finding the right guest actors 
to play these other small parts 

861
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,880
is difficult and you can imagine
people who would have got the 

862
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,480
tone wrong and it wouldn't have 
worked. 

863
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,600
And you can see some of them in 
the TV shows, people who, I have

864
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,480
no idea what show this is 
they're in and aren't quite up 

865
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,280
to the job. 
But everyone in Grail is 

866
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,880
terrific. 
The the the old woman who Arthur

867
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,040
and Betover say need to is 
great. 

868
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,960
John Young is great. 
Not only Carol Cleveland and 

869
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,680
Connie Booth, but also Winston 
and Piglet, the two the two 

870
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:31,000
doctors for basic medical 
training attempt to attend to 

871
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,960
Galahad's injuries are great. 
Everyone just gets the turn 

872
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,480
exactly right. 
Absolutely. 

873
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:42,000
And and the same goes for Brian 
as well, because you had Gwen 

874
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,320
Taylor. 
Yes, yeah, there's a few, a few 

875
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:45,480
people. 
At the McKenna. 

876
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,800
Yeah, and Spike Milligan. 
Spike Milligan? 

877
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,960
Absolutely. 
That's why we have covered it on

878
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:56,560
Goon Pod because he's in it. 
Little throwaway gags again, 

879
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,480
just to keep the laughs coming 
When when you when you, you have

880
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,640
the the narrator turning the 
pages of the book. 

881
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,960
And then there's this gorilla 
hand snatches it away. 

882
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,360
Yeah, yeah, there's no part of 
the film that can't have a a gag

883
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,600
into it. 
My my possibly my favorite Joker

884
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,160
in the whole film is, again, 
it's a it's a trawl thing. 

885
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:27,840
It's not in the script book, but
it's when Arthur and Bedevir are

886
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,800
crossing the Bridge of Death, 
and just for five seconds 

887
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,640
there's that intermission card 
and organ music playing. 

888
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,800
Well, because Chapman got 
Vertigo, couldn't cross. 

889
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,760
That, well, John Cleese refused 
to run across it at all. 

890
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,480
He would just took one look at 
it and said absolutely no way. 

891
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,280
Well, it was, yeah, this was, 
this was a bridge that had been 

892
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,960
specially rigged for them by 
experienced Mountaineers, and it

893
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:48,960
was completely safe. 
But he just took one look at it 

894
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,360
and went absolutely. 
Not. 

895
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,040
I'm sure I saw that bridge in 
the film Sorcerer. 

896
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:54,480
I'm sure that was used. 
I don't. 

897
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:01,240
Think it's this, now there's a 
film. 

898
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,840
Is there any any excuse for 
covering Sorcerer on this 

899
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,040
podcast? 
Maybe not Sorcerer. 

900
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,560
See, I'm a big fan of Wages of 
Fear. 

901
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,440
Of course, Yeah, yeah, which. 
It's based on both, but both 

902
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,560
films. 
Both films are brilliant in 

903
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,480
their own right, even though 
one's technically a remake of 

904
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,600
the other, I suppose. 
Just the hope that no one's 

905
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:24,440
going to attempt to. 
Remake. 

906
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,880
Oh, it's bound the bounty now, 
Dennis, the character of Dennis 

907
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,240
Michael Palin's sort of, what 
would you call him? 

908
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:36,560
Sort of shit ridden, firebrand 
mud ridden. 

909
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,360
Agitator. 
Agitator. 

910
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:45,280
Yeah, possibly. 
Would you say the most quoted 

911
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,560
character in this film? 
Listen, strange women lying in 

912
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,560
ponds, distributing swords. 
There's no basis for a system of

913
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,880
government. 
Supreme executive power derives 

914
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,320
from a mandate from the masses, 
not from some farcical aquatic 

915
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,960
ceremony. 
Be quiet. 

916
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,880
But you can't expect to wield 
supreme executive power just 

917
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,840
because some watery tart through
a sword that you shut up. 

918
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,160
I mean, if I went round saying I
was an emperor just because some

919
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,120
moistened bin had loved a 
scimitar at me, they put me 

920
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,200
away. 
Shut up. 

921
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:17,240
Will you shut up? 
Up now. 

922
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,840
The violence inherent in the 
system. 

923
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,440
Shut up. 
Come and see the violence 

924
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,000
inherent in the system. 
Help. 

925
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,720
Help. 
I'm being repressed. 

926
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:26,560
Bloody peasant. 
Oh, what a giveaway. 

927
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:27,600
Julia that. 
Julia that. 

928
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,720
Aye. 
So there's really 2 sketches in 

929
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:31,880
one there, isn't there? 
Because the the first half, 

930
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,160
which I think, and I think this 
may be Palin Jones Begin and 

931
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:40,680
Cleeson Chapman take on this is 
again, just speculation, but the

932
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:45,560
first half, yeah, think about 
the the world in which this film

933
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,040
was written. 
So this this is the three day 

934
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,400
week and the general strike and 
all this stuff happening around 

935
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,120
this time. 
So all this stuff about unions 

936
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,440
and organization and what the 
government for are very, very 

937
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,280
hot topics that would have been 
discussed around North London 

938
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,040
dinner tables the whole time. 
So the first half of that when 

939
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,760
he's talking about, you know, 
being an anarcho syndicalist 

940
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,360
commune and so on. 
And that's all very much yeah. 

941
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,520
Those conversations that would 
have been had student communist 

942
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,720
societies and things like that. 
But then the second-half about 

943
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,880
why Arthur should be king is 
pure Cleese Chapman thesaurus 

944
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,680
comedy. 
You know, if I started claiming 

945
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:29,000
supreme executive power drives 
from a mandate for the masses, 

946
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,160
not from some farcical aquatic 
ceremony. 

947
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,680
Yes, that's now you say that 
absolutely. 

948
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,360
It very much is that you sort of
alluded to before, as if you 

949
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,520
were reading the original script
and the the the the the page 

950
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:46,240
where that dialogue appears is 
slightly yellower or a. 

951
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:48,280
Different colour a. 
Different typewriter. 

952
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:49,240
Yeah. 
Absolutely. 

953
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
What would you say is the 

954
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,240
strongest part of this film? 
It varies every time I watch it.

955
00:52:57,720 --> 00:53:01,560
Very first time I watched it, it
was the titles and when I was 

956
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,040
listening to the cassette, 
ignoring the stuff that's only 

957
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,280
on the the album. 
And there's some very funny 

958
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,880
stuff there. 
I particularly like Eric Idle's 

959
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,400
story of the form so far on Side
2, which is complete gibberish. 

960
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,040
But he comes to the end of this 
extraordinarily convoluted 

961
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,320
sentence about people we've 
never encountered and never 

962
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,440
liking to and then just says 
this they now do. 

963
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,280
And there's something about that
that just makes me absolutely 

964
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,240
raw. 
When I was a kid, the bit I 

965
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:29,320
found the funniest was Sir 
Robin. 

966
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,720
And I just think that is a that 
is a beautiful piece of comedy 

967
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:36,520
craftsmanship. 
And I'd say the same about the 

968
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,720
Bridge of Death and the 
Gatekeeper. 

969
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:41,800
And there's that little that 
sequence of Lancelot finds it 

970
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,760
easy, Robin goes in with 
misplaced confidence, and then 

971
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,640
finally, the twist at the end 
that Arthur outwits the the 

972
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:54,400
Gatekeeper. 
What is your name? 

973
00:53:54,720 --> 00:53:58,600
It's a Gallahad of Camelot. 
What is your quest? 

974
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:03,120
I seek the grail. 
What is your favorite colour? 

975
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:13,680
Blue. 
Stop. 

976
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,080
What is your name? 
It is Arthur, King of the 

977
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,920
Britons. 
What is your quest to seek the 

978
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,880
Holy Grail? 
What is the airspeed velocity of

979
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,320
an unladen swallow? 
What do you mean an African or 

980
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,720
European swallow? 
I I don't know that. 

981
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,560
Who do you lose? 
How much bits swallows? 

982
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,800
Well, you have to know these 
things when you're a king, you 

983
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,160
know. 
One of the bits cut from the 

984
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,800
script is when they retreat from
Castle Arg, they're meant to 

985
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,280
come across Gilliam's character 
again, now posing as the boat 

986
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,040
keeper, and he says he he he 
would cross the sea of fate must

987
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:01,920
answer me these questions. 28 
They Chuck him off the boat, but

988
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,720
either there wasn't time to 
shoot that or he was too 

989
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,240
expensive or I don't know, but I
slightly bore the loss of. 

990
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,440
Yes, I right. 
I missed just talking about the 

991
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:12,440
gate, obviously. 
Gilliam. 

992
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,400
Gilliam, what happened to Patsy?
Did I miss something? 

993
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,560
Did Patsy get beheaded or 
something or what? 

994
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,280
What happened? 
I mean, this very, very bad 

995
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,960
night continuity throughout 
this, my brother Maynard and his

996
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,560
monks are just there where they 
need to be, and they're not 

997
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,000
there when they no longer need 
to be. 

998
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,200
And it's quite difficult to keep
track of which night is which at

999
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,160
any given moment. 
Who's the knight that Gilliam 

1000
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:36,840
plays? 
He gets eaten by the rabbit. 

1001
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,160
Is that boars? 
I can't remember. 

1002
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:40,600
No. 
Gawain. 

1003
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:41,920
I think it is Gawain, no? 
It's. 

1004
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,240
It's one of those anyway, he's I
think he might only be there in 

1005
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:48,600
that scene is just so they have 
someone who they could feed to 

1006
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,880
the rabbits. 
So there's there's just very, 

1007
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,320
very poor continuity about this 
stuff. 

1008
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,880
So I I honestly wouldn't worry 
too much about Patsy. 

1009
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,920
Maybe Patsy stays with the 
horses when they dismount. 

1010
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,960
Maybe. 
Did you notice when they're when

1011
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:05,000
they're in The Cave? 
There's a there's a fake Shemp, 

1012
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,520
yes, yes, there's an Eric Idle 
standard because we've got 

1013
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:10,840
Brother Maynard in the 
foreground. 

1014
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,520
And. 
There's and there's a story 

1015
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,720
about this, which only came 
across this week when I was 

1016
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,000
doing research for this podcast,
which is that I think that's 

1017
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,960
John Cleese's driver who was 
like hanging around the set and 

1018
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,160
was offering his services and 
ended up appearing in about 20 

1019
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,840
different roles, always in the 
background, never with any 

1020
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,000
dialogue. 
But I think in a film which has 

1021
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,440
almost everybody playing 
multiple roles, I think he's 

1022
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,400
actually the person who plays 
the most different parts is he's

1023
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,240
standing for whoever has to be 
in the foreground for this shot.

1024
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,680
Really. 
He's he's in multiple. 

1025
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,880
Scenes desperately trying to 
sort of huddle behind please so 

1026
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:47,040
you don't get a proper look at 
his face. 

1027
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:52,960
Former a former guest of of my 
show Simon Meddings, he told me 

1028
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,560
that one of his his old 
lecturers, university lecturers,

1029
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,560
I think he said had had been an 
extra and and it's been a stand 

1030
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,600
in I think for Tim the enchanter
10. 

1031
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:05,160
Right. 
So it's sort of like most people

1032
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,000
have at some point that the, the
extras on this, by the way, you 

1033
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,440
know, the, the, the, the final 
scene where you've got the, the,

1034
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,680
the charge, if you like. 
Just before they were paid £2 

1035
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:25,920
each for the day, Palin said 
that he and Eric and Neil he got

1036
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:30,120
regularly stoned during the 
filming, surprise me. 

1037
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,240
And yet unlike The Beatles 
because Help because how Day's 

1038
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,520
Night obviously was pre pre weed
beetles I think. 

1039
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:43,240
And help was the poorer film 
because they were pretty much 

1040
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,160
stoned throughout it. 
But if you think about this 

1041
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,800
film, I think it's the best 
Python film. 

1042
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,920
And yet, if if payments to be 
believed, he and Eric and Neil 

1043
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,360
were stoned during a lot of it. 
Chapman was pissed. 

1044
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:58,680
Gillian. 
Jones didn't know what they were

1045
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:00,480
doing behind the camera. 
Yeah, yeah, please. 

1046
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,360
Was grumpy with everybody. 
But you don't have to have a 

1047
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,000
good time to make a good film. 
What's that? 

1048
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,520
They say the the more fun that 
you're having on set, the less 

1049
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,320
fun the audience has. 
Quite quite often the case, I 

1050
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,080
think quite often the case with 
comedies, because comedy is 

1051
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,320
quite technical. 
But I think if you are making a 

1052
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,920
film about people going through 
horrific experiences, 

1053
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,240
particularly emotional, rather 
than, you know, just people 

1054
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,000
being dismembered. 
I think if you're able to keep a

1055
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,800
light atmosphere on set, it 
stops everybody just becoming 

1056
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,120
incredibly depressed and then 
unable to work. 

1057
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,720
I think the, I think the, the 
trick ultimately is, is to be 

1058
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,960
relaxed. 
I think if you're in a state of 

1059
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,240
tension, then it's no good. 
So whether that relaxation comes

1060
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:46,680
from a, a spirit of let's get 
through this or is aren't we 

1061
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,000
having every time or whether 
it's chemically enhanced, I 

1062
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:54,400
think it it often helps. 
What was the the original ending

1063
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,560
to this film? 
Because I don't think it was 

1064
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,040
meant to end like it did. 
No, I'm thinking again, judging 

1065
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,880
by the script book, so the the 
original ending of the very 

1066
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,120
first draft is that the holy 
grow is found in Harrods, but 

1067
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,280
the the script book has this 
ending. 

1068
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,720
Basically the only thing that's 
different is that they imagined 

1069
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:17,200
that the end credits would be a 
sort of short film in their own 

1070
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,720
right. 
But I've got the the script book

1071
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,880
here. 
So again, this script is a 

1072
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,280
fiction. 
I'm, I'm like 100% sure of that.

1073
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,200
Exactly what its provenance is, 
I couldn't say. 

1074
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,080
But I, I don't believe that this
is a photocopy of a document 

1075
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,400
that they had with them on 
location. 

1076
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,960
It's just barely possible that 
in fact it was, but I don't 

1077
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,000
think it was. 
But the amendations are are 

1078
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,280
clearly something that'll be 
done for the book of that 

1079
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,080
there's there can be no doubt at
all. 

1080
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,160
But it's what it says. 
Suddenly he notices the camera 

1081
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,000
as the Black Mirror drives away.
Quick shot through window of all

1082
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,960
the nights huddled inside 
Inspector end of film to camera.

1083
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,720
All right, Sonny, put that away.
He walks over to it, puts his 

1084
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,240
hand over the lens. 
The film runs out through the 

1085
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:04,680
gate and the predictor shines on
the screen. 

1086
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:06,240
There's a blank screen for some 
15 seconds. 

1087
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,080
That is what the script book 
tells us was the intended 

1088
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,000
ending. 
How do you feel about the 

1089
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,480
ending? 
I love it, and I'm watching 

1090
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,520
YouTube reactors who aren't 
prepared for it and get 

1091
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,480
incredibly frustrated that 
there's no proper ending. 

1092
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:25,360
Because again, the whole point, 
if you like, of the Python 

1093
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,680
experience is to keep wrong 
footing. 

1094
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,920
You keep putting things that you
aren't expecting. 

1095
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,360
Make sure that there's no such 
thing as a beginning, middle, 

1096
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,480
end. 
And actually, there's a 

1097
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,640
surprising amount of cause and 
effect in this film, 

1098
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,160
particularly in the last half 
where people assert that they're

1099
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,520
going to attempt the thing and 
then do attempt it, which hasn't

1100
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:48,080
really happened in the 1st 3rd 
at all. 

1101
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,640
But there's a certain linearity 
to the last third that I think 

1102
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,080
gives a lie to the assertion 
I've seen elsewhere that Life of

1103
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,880
Brian is the better film because
that is the it's the one with 

1104
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,560
the proper story. 
You know, in in any other film, 

1105
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,880
having a proper story is the 
minimum requirement. 

1106
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:11,040
And yes, there's a more of a 
story in Brian, but it's not a 

1107
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,240
wonderful story and it's I don't
want us to be all skateboarding 

1108
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,840
dog about this. 
You know, the the the thing 

1109
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,160
about skateboarding dog is not 
that it skateboards well, is 

1110
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:26,080
that it does it at all. 
So I don't think blind for Brian

1111
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:31,120
particularly deserves props for 
having a story because it's not 

1112
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,120
it's not a wonderful story. 
It's just that there is a bit 

1113
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,080
more of a story in Brian than 
there is in Grail. 

1114
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,440
But there isn't no story in 
Grail the way there is basically

1115
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,040
no story in Meaning of Life. 
Yeah. 

1116
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,240
It's just that the story is a 
bit more episodic. 

1117
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,800
But that's part of the structure
of the Knights of the Round 

1118
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:48,800
Table. 
You follow one night and then 

1119
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:49,880
another night and then another 
night. 

1120
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,920
So I I love that ending. 
I think it's the only way it 

1121
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,800
could have ended. 
Do you like it? 

1122
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:02,080
You don't. 
I don't, I don't dislike it, I 

1123
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,680
just think like possibly could 
have done something better. 

1124
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:07,920
Something. 
Something. 

1125
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,160
Who am I to tell the the 
pythons? 

1126
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:11,520
But you know what I mean. 
I just feel. 

1127
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,280
I remember, I think it might 
have been, I think it might have

1128
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,360
been Jeffrey Perkins talking 
about hitchhikers, where they'd 

1129
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,760
always put on the radio show, 
they'd always put a little joke 

1130
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:21,720
for the announcer to read at the
end of the credits. 

1131
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:26,120
And he said, I think one of the 
things that Douglas Adams and 

1132
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:27,840
Monty Python have in common, 
apart from that they were 

1133
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,320
contemporaries, is they had this
amazing quality of making 

1134
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,600
whatever came on the radio or 
the television next seeming 

1135
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,840
ridiculous because it was 
following either Hitchhiker's 

1136
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,040
Guide to the Galaxy or Monty 
Python's Flying Circus. 

1137
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,400
And like, imagine watching 
today, Monty Python and the Holy

1138
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,040
Grail on Netflix and then going 
on to whatever film was 

1139
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,120
recommended to you next. 
Whatever was recommended to you 

1140
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:55,440
next would seem absurd. 
He was following Monty Python 

1141
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,960
and the Holy Grail. 
Even the other two Python films,

1142
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,560
which are both a bit more 
traditional in their structure, 

1143
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,560
they they play around less with 
the conventions of being a film 

1144
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:11,560
much less than you know. 
Life of Brian starts with a cold

1145
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:13,680
open, which is in itself 
terribly unusual, and then has a

1146
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,120
fairly traditional title 
sequence and then does the end 

1147
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:18,640
titles over the shots of the 
crucifixes. 

1148
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,280
And Meaning of Life starts with 
the short feature, and then that

1149
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:28,560
has a fairly traditional opening
closing titles, just with a 

1150
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,560
little a little code at the end 
of the closing titles. 

1151
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,800
The the short feature The 
Crimson Assurance. 

1152
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,880
Is that the best bit of the 
film? 

1153
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:44,960
So my so my take is Holy Grail 
is the funniest life of Bryan's 

1154
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,120
born with the most to say, but I
don't think it's as consistently

1155
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:52,920
funny and it's not close. 
I I get a bit tired of the same 

1156
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,280
joke coming up again and again 
in Life of Brian. 

1157
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,640
I don't find the speech 
impediment stuff as funny as I 

1158
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,080
think I'm supposed to. 
Me. 

1159
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,480
Too. 
And then Meaning of Life, I 

1160
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,440
think has got some of the very 
best Python material and some of

1161
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,320
the very worst. 
I think it is an incredibly 

1162
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,080
vertiginous experience, but I 
think the world would be a 

1163
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,720
poorer place if we didn't, for 
example, have that very first 

1164
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,800
birth scene, which I think is 
tremendous, or the Galaxy Song, 

1165
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,760
or Mr. Creosote. 
There's wonderful stuff in 

1166
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,600
Meaning of Life. 
It's just a bit of a pudding and

1167
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:25,200
you never know when you're going
to stumble across something 

1168
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:26,720
which really doesn't work at 
all. 

1169
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,240
It's the one that I watch the 
well, no, it's not the one I 

1170
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,360
watch the least because that 
would be now for something 

1171
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:35,280
completely different. 
But but yeah, also Holy Grail 

1172
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,440
for film, for British comedy 
film made in the mid 70s. 

1173
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,720
There's not a lot problematic in
it is. 

1174
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:50,040
There, No, I bet you're gay from
From Galahad to Lancelot is a 

1175
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,920
little bit unfortunate, but even
that is not too egregious. 

1176
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,720
Some of the worst stuff is the 
stuff from the record album. 

1177
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:05,520
There's a after Benavere does 
his bit with the she wears the 

1178
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,160
same as a duck. 
She's made of wood. 

1179
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,400
We cut to John Cleese's 
logician, which has got some 

1180
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,800
very funny stuff in it, but it's
also quite kind of vulgar. 

1181
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,360
And in his Diaries, Michael 
Palin recalls being quite 

1182
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,920
shocked at how vulgar it was. 
And racist, which is a bit 

1183
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,760
unfortunate. 
Yeah, but luckily that doesn't 

1184
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,240
translate to the film. 
No. 

1185
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,400
By the way, I have this in my 
notes. 

1186
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,120
The Spanish title was the 
Knights of the Square Table and 

1187
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,680
they're crazy followers. 
I heard that yes, and in German 

1188
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:38,600
it's the Knights of the Coconut,
which I think is a bit more 

1189
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,000
apropos. 
That's all right. 

1190
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,480
That's all right. 
How? 

1191
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,640
What would you do to improve it?
If you could improve it, If 

1192
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,080
there's anything, what would you
do? 

1193
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,280
What would you take out? 
What would you extend? 

1194
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,280
What would you trim back? 
There's nothing really I'd take 

1195
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,800
out. 
So for example, the three headed

1196
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:56,440
knight, I don't think is 
particularly funny, but you 

1197
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,480
can't cut the three headed 
knight without cutting Serobin, 

1198
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,040
which is an absolute highlight. 
And part of the structure of 

1199
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,240
that is that the three headed 
knight needs to talk to each 

1200
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,120
other. 
That's a difficult sentence to 

1201
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,440
pass out. 
The three heads need to talk to 

1202
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,240
each other for a certain amount 
of time in order to give Robin 

1203
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:14,920
and his minstrels time to 
scarper. 

1204
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:17,960
So there's very little that I 
changed really. 

1205
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,000
I think I think it just all it 
all works. 

1206
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,400
And that that balance that I was
talking about is there. 

1207
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,000
I think the performances are are
pretty much top notch, came out,

1208
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,120
managed to do a good job and 
it's the one that does the most.

1209
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,800
It's the one that feels most 
like the TV show at its best, 

1210
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:41,200
where things are floating in and
out and the grammar of the very 

1211
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,960
idea of watching a movie in the 
cinema is being played around. 

1212
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,600
With which they did a little bit
of in and now something 

1213
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,120
different, but it doesn't feel 
quite the same. 

1214
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,640
The you said before there was a 
joke that you noticed for the 

1215
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,040
first time, and it is that kind 
of film. 

1216
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,320
The thing I noticed for the 
first time this time around is 

1217
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,280
when Lancelot is chanting 
through castles, chanting 

1218
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,320
through swamp, castle, hacking 
people to pieces. 

1219
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,400
He runs up a staircase, pauses 
for a moment, goes back, lops 

1220
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,320
the head off some flowers and 
then keeps charging up a 

1221
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,800
staircase. 
Which is just brilliant and may 

1222
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,560
very well be something they've 
figured out on vacation. 

1223
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,800
I don't know. 
I love it when he when he 

1224
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,600
finally reaches the Prince. 
'S room and of course he thinks 

1225
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:29,960
it's a Princess of damsel in 
distress and he's and he rushes 

1226
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,400
in, sort of kneels and then he 
realizes, oh, I'm terribly 

1227
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:38,400
sorry. 
Behold, your humble servant. 

1228
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,560
So that's a lot of Camelot I've 
come to take it on. 

1229
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,960
Terry, sorry, you've got my 
note. 

1230
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,840
Well I I got to a note. 
Shout out for. 

1231
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,200
Extremely minor. 
Extremely minor character, but 

1232
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:56,200
it just had me howling. 
Eric Idle as Roger the Shrubber.

1233
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:02,240
Roger the Shrubber, yes. 
And again, that line about times

1234
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,560
of severe economic stress, it 
would have resonated more 

1235
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,800
strongly with in the 1970s 
audience. 

1236
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaking of which, again, you 
probably know this, but maybe 

1237
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:14,000
for the benefit of your 
listeners, a joke whose time is 

1238
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,600
definitely come and gone. 
And the joke I wouldn't have got

1239
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:21,200
even watching it in the early 
80s is the identity of God. 

1240
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:24,279
Do you know? 
What? 

1241
01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:25,640
Whose picture that is that? 
Gilliam's. 

1242
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,040
Animating. 
Is it WG grace? 

1243
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:29,240
WG grace? 
Yes. 

1244
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:31,960
Famous cricketer who? 
Was known, among other things, 

1245
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,279
for his voluminous bushy beard 
and that would have been 

1246
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:38,200
incredibly funny to a cricketing
audience in 1974. 

1247
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:45,520
A bit less Fanny for a a YouTube
audience in 2025, Arthur King of

1248
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:47,600
the. 
Britons, your Knights of the 

1249
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,240
Round Table shall have a task to
make them an example in these 

1250
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:53,479
dark times. 
Good idea, O Lord. 

1251
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:58,720
Of course it's a good idea, 
Spamalot, which I haven't seen, 

1252
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,800
have you? 
Yes, I have some time ago. 

1253
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:10,040
It's all right. 
The aforementioned playing 

1254
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,880
around with what it means to 
watch a film is sort of 

1255
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:19,319
duplicated because there's a lot
of 4th wall stuff. 

1256
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,319
So highlight is the Lady of the 
Lake, played by Hannah 

1257
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:27,359
Waddingham, who has a big 
entrance and a big bit early on.

1258
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,160
I think it's from memory, I 
think maybe does she give Arthur

1259
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:31,359
his quest? 
I don't remember. 

1260
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,560
But then she disappears from the
narrative and then she has a big

1261
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,279
song in the second-half called 
Whatever Happens to My Part. 

1262
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,000
So it's quite a lot of that kind
of thing. 

1263
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:41,479
But it's for me, it kind of fell
between. 

1264
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,040
Two stools, because on the one 
hand you have people who aren't 

1265
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:49,439
quite as funny as the original 
Pythons reciting lines of 

1266
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,880
dialogue I know very well. 
And then so that's when. 

1267
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:54,600
It's when. 
It's duplicating the film. 

1268
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:58,560
Then when it stops duplicating 
the film, it's a less good bit 

1269
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,360
of comedy. 
So it there's there's 

1270
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:05,480
entertaining stuff in it, but it
never resolves that problem of 

1271
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:08,480
how to remind me of Monty Python
and the Holy Grail without 

1272
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,840
either duplicating it or coming 
off second best. 

1273
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,840
Do you go and see Doctor 
Strangelove in the West End? 

1274
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,120
No, I haven't, but I think it 
might be. 

1275
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,560
Out of time or really out of 
time, they were filming. 

1276
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,680
It for it to be screened. 
In cinemas, I believe, so I'm 

1277
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,160
I'm holding out for that. 
That's a that's a similar thing.

1278
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:27,440
It it felt a little. 
Bit, I mean, you could probably 

1279
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:30,680
do a whole episode on this, but 
it felt a little bit to me like 

1280
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:34,000
someone had gone through the 
script of Doctor Strangelove and

1281
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:38,280
written extra undergraduate or 
even juvenile jokes of the 

1282
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,320
margins and then made that the 
stage script. 

1283
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:41,840
Really. 
Yeah. 

1284
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,720
Oh, OK. 
So, and of course Coogan is 

1285
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,120
saying that he's he's he's 
bested Sellers because he plays 

1286
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,920
the the 4th role that sellers 
was meant to play and didn't. 

1287
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:57,200
So that's a little bit as an as 
an example of that. 

1288
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:02,040
You as a Sellers fan, you 
presumably know Doctor 

1289
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,280
Strangelove fairly well, yes. 
Yeah. 

1290
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,280
So I I love his interaction. 
With. 

1291
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:12,840
Keenan Wynn and he clocks his 
his name tag on his uniform and 

1292
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,000
says Colonel Bat Guano, That 
really is your name. 

1293
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,720
In the stage version, that 
character introduced himself as 

1294
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,200
Bat Guano and Coogan as Mandrake
says what, like bird shit? 

1295
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,360
Well, it has to spoon feed the 
audience, you see. 

1296
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,240
Yeah, and this is but you know 
when. 

1297
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:35,000
I went to see it. 
Yeah. 

1298
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,400
There's an argument that if 
you're going to do that on 

1299
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,120
stage, you need the comedy to be
broader as you need the gag rate

1300
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,040
to be faster. 
And you can't trust that a 

1301
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,840
little flicker in someone's eye 
is going to deliver the joke. 

1302
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:47,080
So you need to make it more 
obvious. 

1303
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,240
And if the whole audience had 
been rocking with laughter and 

1304
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:53,320
I'd be the only one there 
sitting thinking to myself, I 

1305
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,360
wish this was more subtle, like 
the film, then I would have to 

1306
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,800
say I was simply the wrong 
person and the wrong audience. 

1307
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:03,080
But I was getting chuckles. 
But people weren't going crazy 

1308
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,720
for it the night I was there. 
So yeah, a bit of at this point,

1309
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,240
I think Coogan is very good as 
Strangelove himself. 

1310
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,720
I think that's the time when 
they were able to find a 

1311
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:16,000
different way of being funny 
that still worked for the story,

1312
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:17,320
and that played to Coogan's 
strengths. 

1313
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:19,840
But he's quite bad as Mandrake. 
How do they? 

1314
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:22,920
Sorry, how do they? 
Get away with because in the 

1315
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,280
film, obviously you got the 
President Muffley addressing 

1316
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:28,480
Strangelove on a number of 
occasions. 

1317
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,240
How do they get away with that 
badly for the most? 

1318
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,360
So one of the things I admired 
about the film, and actually 

1319
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,440
this goes back to Holy Grail 
when I rewatched the film 

1320
01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:43,880
recently, is Kubrick never even 
tries to have two Peter Sellers 

1321
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,920
in the same shot. 
He only ever does it with over 

1322
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:50,320
the shoulder shots and cutaways.
So there's a there's a a 

1323
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,480
Strangelove double who's seen 
out of focus around the table 

1324
01:12:52,480 --> 01:12:56,320
early on when Mandrake and no 
Mandrake, when Muffley and 

1325
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:58,320
Strangelove are talking to each 
other, it's all done with 

1326
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,240
editing and a few over the 
shoulder shots. 

1327
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:05,080
There's no process shots at all.
Same for for Holy Grail, when 

1328
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:08,400
you've got please talking to a 
group that includes please and 

1329
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,200
so on. 
But for the stage show. 

1330
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:15,720
So the first time Strangelove 
appears, he's on a screen like 

1331
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:20,680
it's a sort of 1960s Zoom call. 
And Strangelove on the Zoom call

1332
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:25,040
says maybe I should I should 
come down to the war room and 

1333
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,800
Coogan. 
As Muffley says, yes, that would

1334
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,600
be easier in some ways. 
Which is quite a good joke. 

1335
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:34,960
But then. 
Every other time they need to 

1336
01:13:35,440 --> 01:13:41,640
get one seller, 1 Coogan on 
where another one already is. 

1337
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,200
It's covered with a very 
laborious, back to the audience 

1338
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,240
body double. 
And I sort of think if you're 

1339
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,560
going to have this conceit where
you've got 1 actor playing four 

1340
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,640
parts, you need the costume 
changes to be in the order of 

1341
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:59,240
about 10 or 15 seconds and not 
the order of two or three 

1342
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:00,960
minutes, which is what they are 
here. 

1343
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,440
So it always it. 
Always kills the pace. 

1344
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:07,600
It always slows things down. 
My pitch for the ending of the 

1345
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:09,520
stage show, but I wasn't 
consulted. 

1346
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,480
You almost certainly will know 
that originally the film ended 

1347
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:17,640
with a custard pie fight. 
And you can in fact, you can see

1348
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:20,920
table trestle tables of desserts
in the background of some of the

1349
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,240
shots in the war room. 
Because that was the plan, and 

1350
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:25,920
Kubrick filmed at least some of 
that, maybe even all of it, and 

1351
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,320
then cut it because he felt, 
probably correctly, that it 

1352
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:32,720
didn't work to accelerate from 
nuclear Armageddon to custard 

1353
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,960
pies. 
I wonder. 

1354
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:36,920
If it would have played 
differently. 

1355
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:42,000
On stage, because there's a 
visceral reality to custard pies

1356
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,480
in faces when you're sitting in 
an audience actually watching 

1357
01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:49,440
this happen on the stage. 
And that kind of real messiness,

1358
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,960
I think would have really given 
the stage show a tremendous 

1359
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,160
ending. 
Because we can't believe in all 

1360
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,120
the bombs going off the way we 
can when we see footage of real 

1361
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:01,880
test explosions at the end of 
the film. 

1362
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,640
But we would believe in the 
carnage that was being enacted 

1363
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,920
on stage if a real custard pie 
fight was taking place. 

1364
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,440
The ending they got isn't bad, 
but that's the ending. 

1365
01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:13,240
I would have gone because I 
always thought that the custard.

1366
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,200
Pie ending would have been 
terrible in the film. 

1367
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,680
And of course, the story is that
the actual ending that they used

1368
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,120
was suggested by Spike Milligan 
to sell us. 

1369
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:24,600
Oh, is that right? 
I haven't heard that before. 

1370
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,280
Yeah. 
Like to think? 

1371
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:28,920
It's true. 
It may not be though, but that's

1372
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:34,320
the that's the story. 
OK, So is there is there 

1373
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,120
anything else that you wanted to
talk about before we wrap up? 

1374
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,280
Yeah, I think I've covered 
pretty much everything. 

1375
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,880
This is a. 
Film I absolutely adore. 

1376
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,440
I really enjoyed watching it 
again, probably for something 

1377
01:15:46,440 --> 01:15:52,480
like the 20th time. 
And I think if you've taken on 

1378
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:57,240
board the cultural narrative 
that Life for Brian is the one 

1379
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,360
where it all comes together, 
give Holy Grail another go 

1380
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:05,120
because there's a kind of punk 
we have no idea this is. 

1381
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:09,000
Going to work Let's. 
Just try it quality to Grail, 

1382
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,240
which I think is incredibly 
engaging. 

1383
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,560
And although I wouldn't really 
call Life for Brian Slick, it 

1384
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,520
does feel like they know what 
they're doing more in Life for 

1385
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,600
Brian, and that has benefits and
drawbacks. 

1386
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:25,000
Whereas everything in Holy Grail
is held together with chewing 

1387
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:31,240
gum and string and hope. 
And I think that gives it a 

1388
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:34,280
spirit that the other films 
lack, even I don't think. 

1389
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,320
And how something completely 
different has that same spirit 

1390
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,720
of will this work that Holy 
Grail has. 

1391
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:46,000
And I just think in terms of 
jokes, it's just one good joke 

1392
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,680
after another, whether it's a 
visual gag, whether it's a one 

1393
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,200
liner, whether it's a 
relationship, whether it's the 

1394
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:55,280
way something is shot, it just 
keeps on delivering. 

1395
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:59,080
And I think it's tremendous. 
Absolutely, Absolutely. 

1396
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:00,080
We. 
I did. 

1397
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:05,240
A recent show goon Pod listeners
top 20 British comedy films of 

1398
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,960
all time and invited people to 
nominate their favourites. 

1399
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,240
Now this film, where do you 
think it came? 

1400
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:16,280
I would like to think it's top 
five. 

1401
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:19,240
At least hopefully top three 
again. 

1402
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:22,520
There is this, there is this, 
the narrative that Brian is the 

1403
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:25,920
better one, but I think it's the
funnier one, even if it is a 

1404
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,200
better film. 
No, I agree, I think this is 

1405
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:29,440
funny. 
I think Holy Grail's. 

1406
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:34,200
Funnier #8 would you believe? 
Yeah, sandwich between what have

1407
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:41,760
we got Two way stretch Sellers 
film and and Hot Fuzz, which I 

1408
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:47,320
still haven't seen and Life of 
Brian came in at #3 Yeah, yeah. 

1409
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:48,760
I mean, listen, people like 
what? 

1410
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,800
They like and you can't argue 
someone into agreeing with your 

1411
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,560
opinions but and and it depends 
what. 

1412
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:55,840
What are you coming to the film 
for? 

1413
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:59,040
It is absolutely unarguable that
Life of Brian has more to say. 

1414
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,720
Definitely has more to say. 
Holy Grail is only interested in

1415
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,800
making you laugh, but it makes 
me laugh an awful lot even on 

1416
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,600
the 20th or 21st or 22nd time 
through. 

1417
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:13,760
And also it's one that more or. 
Less you can kind of watch it in

1418
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:16,800
with the whole family because 
there's no full front. 

1419
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,480
Or Graham Chapman. 
Yeah, or. 

1420
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:25,920
Absurd Playboy bunnies racing 
after him, chasing him off the 

1421
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:28,120
Cliff to his death. 
Which is, I mean, the 

1422
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,720
gratuitousness is the joke, 
sure, but it's still gratuitous 

1423
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,040
and, and, and funny that it's, 
that it's Chapman. 

1424
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:35,880
As well. 
Yes, exactly. 

1425
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:38,720
This is something I remember 
from I. 

1426
01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:42,400
Think this is from the the life.
Of Python book, which was my 

1427
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,440
gateway to finding out who these
people were that were making 

1428
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:47,440
this incredible comedy. 
And I'm pretty sure I got this 

1429
01:18:47,440 --> 01:18:51,120
from from there that when Graham
Chapman came out to the fellow 

1430
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:56,880
Pythons, Barry Took, who was 
something in BBC comedy at that 

1431
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:00,000
point, was very stern and said 
to them, now this changes 

1432
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,560
nothing. 
This does not mean you can't do 

1433
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:06,920
poof jokes anymore, which is one
way of dealing with this 

1434
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:10,680
revelation. 
Monty Python's Flying Circus. 

1435
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:16,040
Is full of references to pooves,
yes. 

1436
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:18,880
Isn't it pooves which? 
I believe is the. 

1437
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,240
Is the comes up in in Meaning of
Lift as well by Douglas Adams 

1438
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:23,040
and. 
John Lloyd does it. 

1439
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:27,680
Yeah, a couple of times proves, 
but no. 

1440
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,480
Absolutely brilliant film and 
and thank you so much Tom for 

1441
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:33,800
coming along to talk about it 
and your love for it. 

1442
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:36,720
Thanks for inviting me. 
No problem. 

1443
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:38,480
So what have you got coming up 
in the next? 

1444
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:38,880
Few. 
Months. 

1445
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:43,440
In terms of activity, well, I've
been writing nerdy books. 

1446
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,600
I spent two years watching every
episode of Star Trek from Kirk 

1447
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,880
to Archer, and I've documented 
that laboriously in what has 

1448
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,440
turned out to be 3 books. 
So the first was out last year, 

1449
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:57,000
the second will be out I think 
in March. 

1450
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,920
And then I've given Red Dwarf a 
similar treatment. 

1451
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:02,720
But because there are fewer Red 
Dwarf episodes, the Red Dwarf 

1452
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:07,080
book also has lots of behind the
scenes stuff, and that was also 

1453
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,160
split into two volumes at the 
insistence of my publisher. 

1454
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:15,560
So Volume 1 was out. 
In the summer and volume 2 will 

1455
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:19,520
be out next year. 
And then if the politics of the 

1456
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:23,600
1970s which so informed this 
film are your kind of thing and 

1457
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:27,800
you live or you can get to 
Islington in North London, then 

1458
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,480
you will want to be at the 
King's Head Theatre in the month

1459
01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:32,800
of May. 
Because they're a play written 

1460
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:37,520
by me and my Co writer Robert 
Kahn about 3 leading lights of 

1461
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:41,520
the British Labour Party, Tony 
Crossland, Roy Jenkins and Denis

1462
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,360
Healy. 
That will be on at the The 

1463
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:45,960
King's Head. 
It's called The Gang of Three 

1464
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:50,080
and I highly recommend that to 
all of your listeners. 

1465
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:55,040
Have you got dramatic and funny?
Have you got specially built? 

1466
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:58,520
Eyebrows for the person. 
We haven't cast our Denis Healy 

1467
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:00,720
yet. 
So I don't know whether the 

1468
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:04,680
actor will come with eyebrows 
already installed or whether 

1469
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:06,080
they'll have to be specially 
purchased. 

1470
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:09,720
Pity David. 
Hemmings isn't with us anymore 

1471
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,720
because he he, it's some pretty 
impressive ones. 

1472
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,120
OK, Tom. 
Well, listen, that's brilliant. 

1473
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:19,640
Thank you once again. 
And hopefully we can, we can 

1474
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:21,320
meet up again sometime in the 
future and talk about perhaps 

1475
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,240
another film. 
That'll be lovely. 

1476
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:26,040
Thank you very much. 
Cheers bravely bold Sir, Robin 

1477
01:21:26,440 --> 01:21:30,360
brought forth. 
From Camelot he was not afraid 

1478
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:35,520
to die for Braves, Sir Robin. 
He was not at all afraid to be 

1479
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:39,720
killed in nasty ways. 
Brave, brave, brave, brave. 

1480
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:43,800
So Robin. 
He was not in the least but 

1481
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:48,720
scare to be mashed into a pole, 
or to have his eyes goused out 

1482
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:54,040
and his elbows broken, To have 
his kneecap split and his body 

1483
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,360
burned away and his limbs all 
hacked and mangled. 

1484
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:01,200
Brace or Robin, his head smashed
in and his. 

1485
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,920
Heart cut out and his liver. 
Removed and his bowels and 

1486
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:06,360
plugged and his nostrils raped 
and his bottom burnt off and 

1487
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:09,280
his. 
That's the that's enough music 

1488
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:09,960
for now lads.