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The. 
Hello and welcome to Goon Pod 

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and a very Merry Christmas to 
you all. 

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As this is going out on the day 
itself, I imagine most of you 

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won't be listening to it until 
all the excitement is over and 

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the the the Turkey's dispatched,
the relatives have gone home and

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the washing up is a looming 
prospect. 

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But let's face it, there's 
nothing worth watching on the 

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telly. 
Think of this as an agreeable 

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alternative to The Chase and 
Misses Brown's Boys. 

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Now today I am incredibly 
privileged to be joined for a 

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second time by by the man who 
more than anybody else I would 

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say, has kept the memory of The 
Goon Show alive through his 

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outstanding audio restoration 
work which stretches back nearly

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40 years and the results of 
which we can all enjoy through 

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the commercial releases, notably
the The Goon Show Companions and

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of course, BBC Sounds. 
And it still astonishes me when 

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I listen to a Goon show which 
has been returned to its 

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original broadcast length with 
previously removed material put 

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back in and you can't hear the 
joint at all. 

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And especially when it's a show 
which I'm I'm used to hearing in

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a somewhat muddy form that now's
sharp and crisp and fresh. 

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And for all that, we must thank 
my guest today, Ted Kendall. 

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Hello Tyler, nice to be back. 
Thank you for coming back. 

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And yes Ted, your last chat with
me was so favourably received 

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that it was felt imperative that
you come back. 

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People were crying out for it. 
And so very kindly you have. 

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And you've agreed to answer some
listeners questions. 

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They're not all about the Goon 
Show, but the majority are, 

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perhaps unsurprisingly, about 
the Goon Show. 

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So I'm just going to go through 
with no particular order. 

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And 1st question from Graham 
Lindsay Foote. 

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Yeah, friend of the show. 
He says your work on the Green 

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Shirt Compendium was, as most 
agree, definitive with all 

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projects like this. 
Was there a time after the shows

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had been completed and issued 
when something new turned up 

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that made you think Rats. 
I wish I'd have had that when I 

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was restoring this show. 
Of course. 

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It's an occupational hazard when
you're doing this sort of thing.

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The most glaring example, which 
isn't strictly goons but it did 

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turn up in the compendium, was 
Omar Khayyam Show. 

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Oh yes. 
From memory, I think it was 

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episode 3 was really not 
terribly good. 

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And shortly after that came out,
some kind fellow got in touch 

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and said, look, look, I've got 
this box of tapes that my dad 

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recorded. 
Would you hang on to them for 

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safekeeping and that sort of 
thing? 

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So I said, yeah, do that. 
And there, if you please, were 

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six Omer Kayems in as good of 
air quality as you could 

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reasonably want. 
So the short answer is yes, it 

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does happen. 
OK, so then begs a follow up 

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question from Richard Moore. 
And I suppose this this talking 

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about your entire career, 
really, but what was your most 

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exciting find of previously lost
material, goons or otherwise? 

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This silence come to you, cursed
of where the hell do I start? 

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A few things have turned up. 
I mean, if we're talking about 

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goons actually stumbling across 
the dreaded batter, putting her 

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on the Mark 2, which we talked 
about before, that was pretty 

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seismic. 
It was the first piece of 

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material that Wilmot hadn't 
recorded and didn't know about. 

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If it weren't for Roger and his 
work, I I wouldn't have gone 

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into this line of work at all. 
But actually, to be able to go 

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beyond what he'd done was quite 
a nice feeling. 

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Then I knew this guy Peter Bold,
jazz buff and broadcasting 

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engineer, and he had various odd
tapes about him. 

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I was doing some work for Hep 
was a jazz label worked out of 

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Edinburgh. 
And so was he. 

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And we got chatting over time 
and he said got a couple of 

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tapes with goons on, I think. 
I think they're, they're more 

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your your field than mine. 
Take them away, see what you can

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do with them. 
And it turned out that one of 

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those tapes was largely unedited
line tape of the Call of the 

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West, which forms a large part 
of the of the issued version. 

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It had been played on the 
magnetized head at at some time,

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so it rumbled a bit. 
So some work needed doing on it.

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But that that was a pretty 
interesting find. 

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Fortunately for us folks, a bear
10 miles away, the US Cavalry 

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were in the area and I'm going 
to I start off it again. 

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It's murder. 
It's all what? 

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Fortunately for us folks, a bear
10 miles away, the US 6th 

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Cavalry were in the area. 
In the infamous T3 wall that I 

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think we've talked about before 
spooled back a bit. 

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Bit of context. 
Coventry Cathedral was flattened

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during the war in in the 
infamous raid in 1941. 

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It it was partially rebuilt. 
When I say partially rebuilt, 

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yes, it was completely rebuilt, 
but the rebuild incorporated 

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part of the ruins more or less 
untouched. 

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This was a big civic event and 
it needed to be marked by a big 

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work of some kind. 
And Benjamin Britten was 

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commissioned to write a work and
he came up with the War Requiem.

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Now the original performance, 
the the premier performance of 

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of the Mall Requiem didn't go 
too well, and the recording of 

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it was, some say, conveniently 
lost. 

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And I found copies in duplicate 
of that performance in the T3 

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wall. 
To my eternal chagrin, I didn't 

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actually take a copy of it. 
I sent both copies off to sound 

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archives and whether they put 
them in the bin subsequently, I 

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don't know. 
When I was at transcription, I, 

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I worked peripherally on a, on a
program actually around the war 

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Requiem called. 
The idea was good. 

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And that was partly built on the
premise that nobody now knew 

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what the original performance 
sounded like. 

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So I suppose the the emergence 
of that would have been a little

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bit embarrassing. 
Actually, can I just throw one 

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in myself? 
Question. 

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Yes, just occurred to me because
I recorded an episode of Goon 

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Pod last week about the Goon 
show A Christmas Carol from 

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series 10. 
Body is dead I. 

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Love. 
That yes. 

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And through doing research for 
the show, I understand, and this

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is the first time I'd heard 
about this, that on the same 

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night they recorded that, they 
also recorded a very short 

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segment for the Falklands, for 
forces in the Falklands. 

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Are you aware of that or did you
know about that? 

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There is one thing which I was 
played and when I went back to 

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the bloke who played it to me he
denied all knowledge and this 

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may have been it. 
It was 3 goons introducing 

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record requests for some forces 
outfit and and this was done 

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under partly under the auspice 
of of BFBS, but it was done at 

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the goon show session and this 
guy had hundreds of tapes. 

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What? 
What has happened to them, I 

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don't know. 
Yeah. 

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OK. 
Here's a question which is a bit

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more about the the technology 
that you use, Jeff Walker says. 

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What did Ted start off with when
he started making early forays 

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into audio? 
What equipment did he use and 

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what is the most recent 
equipment he has introduced? 

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If you'll forgive me, that 
contains a barely concealed 

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assumption that audio is about 
the kit you use. 

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The myth has grown up with the 
rise of home studios that 

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solutions to problems are 
equipment based, and by and 

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large they're not. 
They're knowledge based, 

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knowledge and experience. 
And the original restorations 

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done in the 80s, I mean, I was 
done very largely with 

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conventional studio equipment, 
which was basically I was doing 

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the stuff in the BBC. 
So we're talking about student 

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tape machines. 
They had their own assembly 

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desks made by Tweed Audio in 
Kelso with some very nice 

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equalization, very natural 
sounding, very smooth. 

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Anything else was done with an 
external clock technique. 3rd 

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octave equalizer. 
That was where we started and 

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and the initial stuff was was 
done with block and blade on 

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that. 
I suppose the next advance was 

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to use in digital audio tape for
capture. 

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Editing was still on quarter 
inch with block and blade for 

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some time until I bought my 
first Sadie. 

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And once I could do digital 
editing, there was more scope 

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for the trickier stuff. 
As time went on, I started using

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Cedar kit for the restoration. 
I'm pleased to say I'm still on 

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speaking terms with the people 
from Cedar. 

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I've been, I've been criticizing
the kit in private and I hope 

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constructively for some time. 
And the first few years was was,

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you know, they were producing 
stuff and I was trying it and 

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breaking it and saying no, no, 
no. 

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And then suddenly it all sort of
came together and, and the stuff

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was really useful and didn't 
muck about with the signal, but 

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took a lot of the muck out. 
And at that point I felt really 

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confident in using it and I've 
used it ever since. 

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And that must be getting on 30 
years now, ideally, if you've 

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got the space for it. 
The Quad electrostatic I think 

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is still unrivalled as a 
loudspeaker in a lot of 

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respects. 
It has its weaknesses. 

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They can't get very loud, 
doesn't have an awful lot of 

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bass, and it's very fussy about 
the rooms that you put it in. 

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I was originally using 
electrostatics for one reason, 

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not they didn't work in the 
room. 

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And again, for the last 30 years
I've been using PMC speakers. 

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There's a personal connection 
there, and Pete Thomas and I go 

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back a long way. 
We first bonded over the 

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problems of dubbing 78 and I've 
had two or three pairs of his 

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speakers and and for me they 
they tell me what I need 

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domestically. 
I have the pair of the little 

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BBC bookshelf speakers, LS35A 
for the Conyuchanti. 

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I bought those in 1978. 
The dealer was having a summer 

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sale. 
Cost me all of £150. 

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What 1978? 
Yeah, and 40 years later, they 

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are still doing the biz. 
Brilliant. 

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So I'm very pleased about that. 
And and domestically for 

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amplification, it's nearly 
always been quad because it just

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sits there and it works, it's 
reliable and it sounds better 

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than some of the high end people
will ever believe. 

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My next question was calmatic. 
With shows where even your best 

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efforts there's a clear audible 
distinction between cut 

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material, drop back in and the 
rest of the episode. 

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Has technology now made it 
possible to totally standardise 

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the sound? 
Up to a point up to a point and 

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and one can do better in some 
respects. 

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The the latest versions of CD 
hiss, for instance, you can push

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a bit harder before it becomes 
obviously over processed or you 

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get odd noises coming in for all
actually is an episode that 

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comes to mind where there is the
transcripts an issue 93 I think,

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or whatever it was. 
And there is the John RTE estate

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and those are the sources and as
far as I'm aware, there are no 

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others. 
Now the John RTE acetate was 

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done obviously on first or 
second transmission. 

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It was done in period, which 
would be what early 55 I think. 

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And that was off AM. 
And you have a very obvious step

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in quality between insert and 
and and and main recording. 

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And there is a point at which 
the information simply isn't 

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there to dig out. 
You can to a very large degree 

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disguise that and, and, and I 
suppose disguising that is a lot

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of the art of what I do. 
But there are still things where

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where where it's a fudge too 
far. 

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And you see, I had a similar 
situation with scratch. 

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Oh yeah, I think some material 
has actually turned up since 

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which may allow one to do a 
better job. 

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But at the time, again, it was 
John RT and it was had very 

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heavy Hector lines on it and 
there was no way it was going to

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cut in obtrusively. 
Now with for Ogg, I just ran the

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thing as a complete show and 
left the changing quality across

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the edit as it was. 
With scratch, I jumped the other

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way and I put the extra material
in the bonus disc. 

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So which approach is right? 
I'm not terribly sure, but the 

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the aim always was to have the 
quality consistent enough that 

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the comic flow wasn't disturbed 
by anything extraneous. 

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While Ned Seagoon is analyzing 
the fog, may I take this 

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opportunity of wishing all Green
Staters a very Merry Christmas. 

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Get your friends to join in the 
refrain. 

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Diggity Ditch and 2468. 
Who do we appreciate? 

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Greenslade and now Fordog 
Chapter 8. 

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Graham Lindsay, footfall enough,
thinks he's He might have a copy

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of Ford in his loft on open reel
from 1970. 

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Yeah, unfortunately. 
By that point, that will be the 

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transcription service version. 
I'm almost certain of it for all

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I don't think was ever repeated 
in period. 

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00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,040
At least I don't think there's 
any record of it now. 

226
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,840
You know, if if it's a tape from
the 1950s that was entirely 

227
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:56,400
different complexion on things, 
but the goons were virtually 

228
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,640
absent from BBC Radio during the
60s. 

229
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:06,360
There might have been half a 
dozen shows up to like 1969 when

230
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,160
there was a a repeat season. 
Yeah. 

231
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,840
If by any chance it is from the 
50s, then yes. 

232
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,120
OK, get him to go up until the 
loft and ascertain. 

233
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaking of recordings and discs
and tapes and things, you know, 

234
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:29,360
just Stevenson asks, does Ted 
have access to Spikes recordings

235
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,360
that his daughters ever seen in 
that documentary, which is the 

236
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:38,520
Spike Milligan's unseen archive 
documentary from 2002, where 

237
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,080
there was these fascinating 
glimpses of all these tapes from

238
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,720
the Goon Show period? 
I've never actually been in 

239
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,440
touch with the family. 
That's partly inhibition on my 

240
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,160
part. 
After all, I'm only an engineer 

241
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,440
only. 
Well, no, no, but I mean, you 

242
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,120
know, I might be a good one, but
I am. 

243
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,560
I am. 
I mean, that's stratum, right? 

244
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:10,000
You know, it would certainly be 
nice to, you know, have a look 

245
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:15,760
and see what's there. 
On the other hand, I believe and

246
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,400
say this is only a belief. 
I believe that a lot of them are

247
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,960
dubs of John R TS acetates. 
Oh, right. 

248
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,640
OK. 
Some of them obviously aren't 

249
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,360
the the you know the the second 
series tapes that the second 

250
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:34,840
series episodes obviously 
aren't, but for archival 

251
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,200
purposes it would be nice to dot
the IS and cross the T's. 

252
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,360
OK. 
OK, Next question, getting away 

253
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:43,840
from the goons. 
Yes, Walter Dunlop. 

254
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,280
I've often wondered about Ted's 
discovery of the Journey into 

255
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,560
Space TS discs. 
I'd love to know more about it, 

256
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,440
where they were, how he 
discovered them, what sort of 

257
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:58,680
state they were in, etcetera. 
OK, well when you talk about 

258
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,200
Journey Into Space, I suppose I 
have to say something about the 

259
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,520
late Barry Hill who was one of 
the pioneer fanatical radio show

260
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,440
collectors in this country. 
And when I started looking 

261
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,720
further afield than the BBC for 
Goon material, I fairly soon 

262
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:24,240
stumbled across Barry. 
And of course, you know, I got 

263
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,600
fairly mercilessly pumped 
because he was a contact inside 

264
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,280
the BBC and this was, you know, 
he regarded me as as a means to 

265
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,760
an end, I suppose, which is fair
enough. 

266
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,400
I mean, it's what fanatics do 
all the time. 

267
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,120
And basically he wouldn't belt 
up about Journey into Space. 

268
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,600
And this convinced me that there
was there was probably some 

269
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:53,080
mileage in going looking for it.
And initially I was without a 

270
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,120
clue. 
And then at some point when I 

271
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:02,240
was at transcription service, I 
discovered that the program 

272
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,080
archive went back quite a long 
way. 

273
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,960
It didn't go back nearly as far 
as it did up to about 1975 when 

274
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,760
Malcolm Frost, who was the 
original head of transcription 

275
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,520
service, retired. 
At that point they'd kept the 

276
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,200
metal and sample pressings of 
just about everything, as far as

277
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,000
I understand it. 
But then new head came in and 

278
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,480
costs had to be cut. 
And of course metal matrices are

279
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,880
very valuable in terms of scrap 
metal. 

280
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,040
So an awful lot of stuff went 
and there was very, very little 

281
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:46,280
before about 1954, and a lot of 
the disk archive was in this 

282
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,160
rather dingy industrial unit in 
Acton, not E Acton N Acton. 

283
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:56,240
OK, Yeah. 
So Blue Bottle had nothing to do

284
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:03,640
with it anyway. 
Occasionally I would because it 

285
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,480
was becoming fairly obvious. 
I got an archival bent and and 

286
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,960
and occasionally 11 would go 
over and try and retrieve a tape

287
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,240
from there. 
And I was opening boxes and 

288
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:21,640
thinking, well, some interesting
stuff here. 

289
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,160
Nobody seems to have catalogued 
it. 

290
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,000
A lot of the paperwork had been 
destroyed. 

291
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,240
So the long and the short of 
that was that Sound Archives 

292
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,040
paid my salary for six months 
while I went through and 

293
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:42,960
catalogued N Acton and there 
were 129 boxes I seem to 

294
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,640
remember of 16 inch pressings 
and it was somewhere halfway 

295
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:55,360
through, I can't exactly 
remember when I saw the first 

296
00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,480
disc of The Red Planet. 
So great insight, excitement 

297
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,480
ensued. 
I was went, tore through the 

298
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:09,000
boxes, found all 20 episodes of 
The Red Planet head back and 

299
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,560
made safety copies as quickly as
I could. 

300
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,880
Shortly after that I found the 
world in peril. 

301
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,480
You know, that was excitement 
enough to start with. 

302
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,080
And then of course, the question
of Operation Luna arose, which 

303
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,040
was not in North Acton, which we
found a bit curious because the 

304
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,080
Operation Luna, the 
transcription held was the 

305
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:40,200
remake, the 13 episode remake. 
By his own admission, Charles 

306
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,960
Chilton reckoned that the 
original Operation Luna does not

307
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,280
warrant 20 episodes. 
I think he took mate episodes 

308
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,360
actually to leave Earth. 
Right. 

309
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:01,080
But in any case, neither version
seemed to be extent and it was 

310
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:06,120
only a year or so later when I 
was actually looking through the

311
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,400
library as opposed to archive 
discs actually in Kensington 

312
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,760
House that I came across a set 
of operation lunar on on on 10 

313
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,680
inch micro groove. 
The difference between library 

314
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,560
and archive is that basically 
library discs were stamped with 

315
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,920
red library on the on the label 
and all and sundry on the start 

316
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,040
could pull those out and play 
them for whatever purpose they 

317
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,600
they they could contrive. 
Whereas the archive discs were 

318
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,960
kept to ensure the retention of 
the program. 

319
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,800
And therefore they were 
basically intended to be played 

320
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,640
only by engineering staff for 
the purposes of copying and and 

321
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,280
archiving. 
So so this set of disks was was 

322
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,520
a little bit battered. 
Nevertheless, it was all there 

323
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,720
and that's where they came from.
Now, the original journey into 

324
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,400
space, which was actually called
Operation Lunar at the time that

325
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,280
was subsequently applied, all 
that remains of that is I think 

326
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,920
5 minutes from the final 
episode, which was in sound 

327
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,120
archives and which came out on 
one of the box sets. 

328
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,320
But that's that's essentially 
it. 

329
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,720
And you know, it took a long 
time to find this stuff. 

330
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,880
And then of course you know 
George Riggs who was this ex 

331
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,120
Navy man who who ran tape 
library, you know, he 

332
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:39,520
subsequently said well well of 
course they were there all the 

333
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,080
time. 
I knew they were there. 

334
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,520
So he was a nice bloke George, 
so I didn't argue with him. 

335
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,960
Yeah. 
You know success has many 

336
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,360
fathers. 
Failure is an orphan. 

337
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,200
So OK, the next question I think
I know the answer to, but I'll 

338
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,720
ask you obviously. 
Just for the hell of it, why 

339
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,120
not? 
Ian Porter, Which show was which

340
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:10,400
goon show was the most difficult
to restore to Ted's own personal

341
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,000
satisfaction? 
And at what point did he have to

342
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,880
say sod it? 
It's as good as I'm going to get

343
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:20,200
it now I'm going to say the 
repeat of 1985 or the the the 

344
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,360
remake of 1985, am I right? 
That, that that's certainly in 

345
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,360
the in the most difficult 
handful. 

346
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,680
Yeah, yes, yes. 
Well, I you know, we mentioned 

347
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,080
the scratch if. 
I was Prince Renania. 

348
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:47,440
Do you know what I would do? 
I would put on my best marriage 

349
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,680
shorts, sweep her into my strong
thin arm, and carry her back to 

350
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,800
my palace of darken mystery. 
Where's that the? 

351
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,560
Cow shed at the butter market 
boom. 

352
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,520
Call of the West, actually, I 
had to wrestle pretty damned 

353
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,800
hard to get that rumble out of 
it. 

354
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,920
Oh yes, but you know, we we 
managed that incidentally in, 

355
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,040
in, in in Call of the West. 
There was quite a was quite an 

356
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,320
interesting, but as you as you 
may recall, it's one of the few 

357
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,920
shows that doesn't have one of 
the usual play outs. 

358
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,400
It's a thing called Bohemia 
After dark. 

359
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,200
The line tape had various 
droppings on it. 

360
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:43,920
So I had the last sort of I 
think 45 seconds of the play out

361
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,440
which actually went to an end 
and I was editing between that 

362
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,160
and the transcription service 
master which faded out. 

363
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,320
OK. 
And it was quite an interesting 

364
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:05,160
exercise to undo that fade and 
then attach it to the remaining 

365
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:10,800
full level tail that I had. 
And in the end I was boosting 

366
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,280
the the outgoing fade 2025 DB, 
something like that. 

367
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,080
Fortunately, there was quite a 
lot going on. 

368
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,040
So, so, so you can't actually 
hear the hiss is coming up, but 

369
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,280
that was a tricky one. 
But but that came off and and 

370
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,120
that wasn't a case of sort it. 
That was a case of fine, done 

371
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,040
that ticked off move to the next
one. 

372
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,960
I think. 
Yes, obviously there were some 

373
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,200
of the early stuff where I had 
kind of like second generation 

374
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,000
stuff off off, off wire. 
I mean, there's one infamous bit

375
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,320
which sloughs to a stop in one 
of the compendia. 

376
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,600
But there you are. 
That's all there is of that show

377
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,880
and that's as good as that's 
ever going to be because the, 

378
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,040
the, the route to that original 
I think is closed off now. 

379
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,160
So, so there was a bit of that 
in in very early stuff. 

380
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:11,760
There was another show where 
again, early material where 

381
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,360
whether it was a piece of muck 
on the head or something, but 

382
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,480
the thing was very muffled for 
the 1st 10 minutes and then got 

383
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,000
a lot clearer and one had to 
sort of equalize that so that 

384
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,480
the thing would run at least 
reasonably well. 

385
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,400
So apart from those few shows 
we've mentioned, most of the 

386
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,720
compromising happened in the in 
in the later volumes with the 

387
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,080
with the sort of prehistoric 
shows. 

388
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:46,960
Just on that question from Holly
Anger, is there a missing goon 

389
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,080
show that would be #1 on your 
wish list? 

390
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,520
Like Archie and Goonland for 
example. 

391
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,680
I'm not really not any longer 
really losing sleep over the 

392
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,640
very early stuff because it 
seems to me that at that point 

393
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,760
it was still a show in 
development. 

394
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,200
I mean, I mean, the fourth 
series was nearly there, yes. 

395
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,480
And it would be nice to have 
some fourth series, some more 

396
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,080
4th series stuff. 
Come to think of it, it would be

397
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,960
nice to have some more Benteen 
material. 

398
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,920
Yes. 
Whether it was tell us much more

399
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,440
than we already know. 
I, I, I, I'm not I'm not too 

400
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,320
sure. 
I, I know for a fact because I, 

401
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,600
I delved into all the memos that
were left at transcription with 

402
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:37,600
regard to the goons. 
The goons took off when they 

403
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,120
took off, they took off quite 
suddenly in in initially 

404
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,520
transcription didn't know how 
they were going to be received. 

405
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,880
They mounted a promotional 
series called Variety Parade, 

406
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,880
which ran the gamut of the 
variety output they they they 

407
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,960
were offering. 
And two of these shows were goon

408
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,000
shows. 
And they had spoken 

409
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,320
introductions from the head of 
variety transcription. 

410
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,920
And it was rather intriguing 
that the first one said, well, 

411
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,000
you know, this is a new and 
unconventional form of humor. 

412
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,240
Give it a try. 
And the second one was saying, 

413
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,880
well, you know, you might have 
liked the first one, please give

414
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,960
it another try. 
OK. 

415
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,960
Yeah. 
And and and then it, it took off

416
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:35,440
like the proverbial rocket to 
the extent that CBC wanted more 

417
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:41,120
goon shows and the word went out
to, to, to BH, what have you 

418
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,280
got? 
The 4th series? 

419
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,920
And the answer was practically 
nothing. 

420
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:51,240
This inquiry was about 1956 I 
think, so it would have been 2-3

421
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,560
years before. 
And the answer was no. 

422
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,680
They've all been wiped long 
since and it and it and it was 

423
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,440
that fact that eventually led to
the vintage Goon series with 

424
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,080
with the full series shows being
being reworked. 

425
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,120
Sorry I got off the point. 
What was the? 

426
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,880
Point, well, no, we've kind of 
covered it. 

427
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,360
What was is there a missing goon
show that that you particularly 

428
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,280
holding out for? 
Just on the same tack, Richard 

429
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,320
Moore asks what is your non 
goons Holy Grail, IE what audio 

430
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,960
material would you most like to 
see recovered? 

431
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,560
It's a big question, isn't? 
It Oh yeah, only slightly 

432
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,960
incidentally, going back to 
Archie and Goonland for a 

433
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,600
moment. 
Oh yeah, the reason I don't 

434
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,720
really lose any sleep over. 
I mean, it would be nice, right,

435
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,160
to be have have a nice copy of 
the goons hit whales. 

436
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,760
Yes, right. 
It would be it would be nice to 

437
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:50,680
have a better copy of radio show
China story. 

438
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Yeah, mind you actually, come to
think of it, come to think of 

439
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,400
the problems I had with the 
radio show version of China 

440
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,480
story, I could probably do 
better now because I seem to 

441
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,920
remember one of the major 
problems with the end of China 

442
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,520
story. 
The the one of the that was a 

443
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,240
companion of two or three 
recordings. 

444
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,160
But I, I think, I think the best
one tended to wow a bit over the

445
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,920
last few minutes. 
And of course, the last bit of 

446
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,800
major Cedar kit I did buy was 
something for dealing with wow 

447
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,040
speed variations. 
The thing about Archie and 

448
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,360
Goonland is that it was a 
construct that you've got two 

449
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,800
different characters and all 
right, they're fantasy. 

450
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:42,240
Each of them one's firmly rooted
in reality and one's fantasy, 

451
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,120
and it would be nice to hear 
with curiosity. 

452
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,760
But as I say, I'm not losing 
sleep over it. 

453
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:55,920
Non goons, non goons, non goons.
Well, well, everybody would like

454
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,720
to hear the all the Secam 
Hancocks. 

455
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,160
Of course. 
That's that's a given. 

456
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:12,640
No, there are some, I mean I've 
got interests over quite a quite

457
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,280
an area. 
There's there's quite a lot of 

458
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,240
Kathleen Ferrier material which 
is completely extinct. 

459
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,880
I've done something to bring 
back what there is. 

460
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,720
I mean, yes, I've been involved 
in, in bringing back a fair 

461
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,680
amount of stuff which was 
thought lost. 

462
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:38,120
I mean, I mean, what of course 
is missing completely is 

463
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,240
anything of George Orwell. 
He broadcast extensively during 

464
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:49,080
the war, external services, but 
there appears to be no recording

465
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,760
of him at all. 
That would be intriguing. 

466
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,480
Yes, I've obviously been doing 
this too well. 

467
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,480
Listen, let me ask you this 
question, then let me ask you 

468
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,440
this, because this might 
trigger, not trigger you, but it

469
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,680
might make you. 
Think it's absolutely. 

470
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,120
Yeah, Graham, Lindsey Foot 
again. 

471
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,960
Yeah, really. 
The early Django Reinhardt 

472
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,800
restorations using Cedar. 
Yes. 

473
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,600
More difficult than going share 
restorations? 

474
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,120
Or was it made easier that 
quintet of the Hot Club of 

475
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,800
France songs are only a few 
minutes long rather than 30 

476
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,000
minutes or so? 
Am I comparing apples to oranges

477
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,480
here? 
Yes. 

478
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,800
OK, next. 
Question No, no, no, no, no, no.

479
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:36,760
I, I yeah. 
It, it, it is a different, it's 

480
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,200
a slightly different discipline.
It's a different set of 

481
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,280
reflexes. 
The attraction about working off

482
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:50,240
a 78 generally, you know, pre 
war 78, is that it's a very 

483
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:58,160
direct connection to the actual 
event that a 78, which isn't a 

484
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:03,160
dub and dubs aren't very common.
So we'll leave those aside, but 

485
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:11,000
a 78 is really a slice of time, 
not much about with not 

486
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,880
adulterated. 
That is actually what happened 

487
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,560
in those 3 1/2 minutes in front 
of that microphone. 

488
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:23,239
And that to me is, you know, 
quite a, quite a thrill in some 

489
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,719
ways, especially when you've 
got, you know, creative genius 

490
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,880
like like Reinhardt on, on the 
end of your microphone. 

491
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,920
Because I mean, I've, I've 
spoken about this before, but I 

492
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,639
mean, to me, the guy's 
miraculous, you know, even if he

493
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,440
played a bum note, he, he made 
it sound as if he meant it. 

494
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,639
And and and, you know, it's, 
it's, it's wonderful stuff. 

495
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,120
The disciplines from disk and 
tape are are different. 

496
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,440
Obviously the aim is the same, 
but the techniques are different

497
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,160
and and and the duration is not 
a particularly limiting factor. 

498
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,920
You know, there are obviously 
geometrical differences like a a

499
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,960
disc, the linear speed of the 
medium as opposed to rotational 

500
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,120
speed. 
The the groove going past the 

501
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:44,000
stylus is going past at 
something like over double the 

502
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,840
speed at the outside of the disc
that is at the inside of the 

503
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,720
disc. 
Hence end of side distortion, 

504
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,240
which used to be a bugbear of 
playing records in general. 

505
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,640
Refinements in pickups and 
stylus profiles have largely 

506
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,520
eliminated that now. 
But but you have that also you 

507
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:11,080
have with with a 78, you have 
the filler in the material which

508
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,680
was made to make it stand up to 
the steel needles in use at the 

509
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,400
time. 
The idea, incidentally, was that

510
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,800
the needle would would actually 
be ground to fit the groove by 

511
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,160
the first few turns of the 
record and then would remain 

512
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,600
reasonably OK until the end of 
the side and then you changed 

513
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,080
it. 
But you know this, this abrasive

514
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,920
filler causes crackle over time.
It tends to get damp because 

515
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,560
part of the filler, besides the 
shale which provided the 

516
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:50,040
abrasion was certainly from 1930
or so, was cotton flock, which 

517
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,840
provided bulk and was cheap. 
The problem with cotton flock, 

518
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,600
of course, is it absorbs 
moisture and if the pressing's 

519
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,120
got a tall damp, that tends to 
exacerbate the crackle because 

520
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,200
it just makes little pork holes 
through through the surface. 

521
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,640
On the few occasions I've been 
able to play 78 S out of Emis 

522
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,600
own archive, which has been 
temperature controlled since 

523
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:21,000
birth, the surface can be 
remarkably quiet because the 

524
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,560
cotton flock hasn't hasn't had 
the chance to expand and disturb

525
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,040
the surface. 
But as your linear speed drops 

526
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,840
towards the center of the disk, 
the pitch of the crackle lowers.

527
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,600
There's more energy at the lower
frequencies. 

528
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:44,360
And this was one of the things I
was very hot on with cedar to 

529
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,360
start with. 
The same look, you know, your 

530
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,080
stuff's fine at the fine at the 
outside of the disk, but it gets

531
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,280
worse towards the center and 
fairly short. 

532
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,640
All they sorted that out to be 
fair, but that's one of the 

533
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,840
things to look out for. 
And and the the other major 

534
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:05,400
thing with a with a disk is that
there's a vast variety of actual

535
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,560
groove profiles. 
The shape of the groove, not 

536
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,480
just the the size of tip, which 
is optimum for it, but the shape

537
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:18,080
of the tip. 
See modern LP's modern LP 

538
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,840
modern. 
Well, never mind, we'll let that

539
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,240
go. 
But but the modern LP's cut with

540
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,760
AV shaped bottom to the groove 
78, it's more AU shaped cross 

541
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:36,080
section. 
So you don't use a standard tip 

542
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,320
because it just ends up skating 
around on the bottom. 

543
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:44,120
You have to truncate the tip so 
that the tip is held by the 

544
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,160
walls of the groove and that is 
where most of the well, that is 

545
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,960
where all the information 
actually is. 

546
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,000
Now to get past wearing things, 
you sometimes have to use 

547
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,760
different sizes of tip just to 
crawl up and down the groove one

548
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,920
and find the bit that hasn't 
been ground out before. 

549
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,400
That is that is vital the proper
fit of the stylus in the groove.

550
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,680
And that's something that you 
have to get right and you can't 

551
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,120
subsequently correct for. 
There's a question here, Adam. 

552
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,480
It's quite a lengthy question. 
By the way. 

553
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,320
Adam Yates, in the last 
conversation, I was very 

554
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,040
interested when Ted mentioned 
how sometimes restoration can 

555
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,120
ruin the original broadcast. 
For example, noise gates are 

556
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,960
overused. 
So you have a kind of baffled 

557
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,480
tinny puppy effect. 
He mentioned he likes to keep 

558
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,600
his natural sound as possible in
the restoration, so if there's a

559
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,200
touch of hiss, so be it. 
It all makes sense. 

560
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,720
Sounds more organic, like 
keeping grain in film 

561
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,520
restorations. 
I'd like Ted to expand more on 

562
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,600
the natural restoration process 
versus overuse of restoration. 

563
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:52,840
OK, I'll quietly skirt the 
question of film restoration, 

564
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,960
because that's not really my 
field. 

565
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:00,280
Of course, I do prefer a film to
look like a film. 

566
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,800
And lots of video. 
I mean, that's a sort of an 

567
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,000
enculturation thing, I suppose. 
But if I know something's been 

568
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,000
shot on film, I'd like it to 
look like film. 

569
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:19,160
Yes. 
I think a lot, some put it like 

570
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:25,880
that, some video that I see is 
over restored to the point where

571
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,240
you can see the artifice. 
I think that is probably the 

572
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:33,200
key. 
You see, to me, the best audio 

573
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:42,400
restoration is very self 
effacing, that my ideal is for 

574
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,200
the customer not to have any 
notion that the audio was 

575
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:52,000
damaged in the first place. 
And yeah, that probably 

576
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,160
contributes to people not 
appreciating what goes into it, 

577
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,200
at least the people who sign the
cheques. 

578
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,240
Yeah. 
Oh, little social comment there.

579
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,440
Yeah. 
I, I, I think the guide is that 

580
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,000
if the restoration draws 
attention to itself, then you've

581
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,080
gone too far. 
Sometimes you have to tread a 

582
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:22,480
little on that side. 
I'm put in mind of the end of 

583
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,000
the spectre of Tintagel, where 
Segan is being carried off by 

584
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:33,200
the men in white coats and he's 
babbling away about the way the 

585
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,880
country should be. 
And Prince Philip will have to 

586
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,440
go, you know. 
And that was in transmission, 

587
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,000
but it wasn't in either of the 
transcription issues. 

588
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,080
I can't imagine why and, and 
what I had available at the 

589
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,720
time, I couldn't just have a 
dirty great block of hiss 

590
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:51,440
appearing in the middle of that 
rant. 

591
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,760
That would have upset the flow 
too much. 

592
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,720
So I had to go slightly over 
there. 

593
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:02,520
And that that phrase certainly 
in in the restoration I did at 

594
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:03,920
the time. 
You'll probably do a bit better 

595
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:09,320
now because Steve has moved on. 
That was slightly artifacty and,

596
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,120
you know, break my own rule. 
What did you say your name was? 

597
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,320
King Arthur. 
King Arthur. 

598
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:18,240
That's right. 
Yes. 

599
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,280
Well, you better come with me, 
Your Majesty. 

600
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:26,440
There's a plane van outside that
all our King Arthur's and three 

601
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:31,200
Napoleons have ridden in it. 
It's good enough for me. 

602
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,560
Yeah, of course. 
This means the end of the House 

603
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:34,760
of Windsor of God. 
Yes. 

604
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:36,360
Prince Philip will have to go 
in. 

605
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,040
You come with me, Your Majesty. 
It'll all be all right in a 

606
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,080
moment. 
You just come out. 

607
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,840
You Prime Minister. 
You've got the right bill. 

608
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,520
You know, that's very kind of 
Your Majesty. 

609
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,240
You fancy Island Wales is doing 
that at the moment. 

610
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,320
I've said somewhere else that I 
work on this sort of basis of a 

611
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,320
thing called music to muck 
ratio, which is completely 

612
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,560
unscientific, subjective thing, 
but I know what I mean by it, 

613
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,120
which is that you want to clear 
away. 

614
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,920
I'm here over there in the plane
of my speakers, is this 

615
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,240
performance. 
I want to clear out as much of 

616
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:23,040
the rubbish between me and that 
performance as I can without 

617
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:34,440
actually doing it harm. 
And it takes skill, experience, 

618
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,360
judgement, talent, whatever you 
want to call it. 

619
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,040
A lot of it is down to flying 
hours and just being able to 

620
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,560
having trained yourself to hear 
these things. 

621
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,400
Yeah. 
And I know I keep coming back to

622
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,920
this. 
I, I, I, I I mean, the number of

623
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,320
times my son looked at the 
heavens when I said to him 

624
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,320
experiences like gold. 
Grab it wherever you can. 

625
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,440
That is the main thing. 
You just learn to judge these 

626
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,640
things. 
A useful way of doing it. 

627
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,480
I, I, I tended to do a lot of 
the sort of de clicking, de 

628
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:18,240
hissing equalization more, more 
or less in one pass because 

629
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,680
equalization and noise reduction
kind of work together. 

630
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,720
Depending on the equalization 
you're using, you can use more 

631
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,560
or less noise reduction and 
noise reduction generally works 

632
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,360
best when you're not driving it 
too hard. 

633
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:34,360
So, so the easy thing to do is 
to flick back briefly to the 

634
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,320
original sound and try and 
concentrate on the sound you're 

635
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,280
trying to get out and then back 
to your process. 1 you say, are 

636
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,480
you, am I, am I changing the 
sound I want? 

637
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,840
It's a little bit difficult 
because, because obviously the, 

638
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,440
the presence of hiss and other 
things affect your perception of

639
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:58,880
the sound that you want, but, 
but with practice it becomes 

640
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,440
possible to do it. 
So yeah, it's a slightly 

641
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,640
unsatisfactory answer. 
It's, it's, it's about skill and

642
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:11,520
judgement and practice. 
But the dangers of of, of over 

643
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,080
restoration are real. 
You know, if restoration can't 

644
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,160
be really well done, don't 
attempt it. 

645
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,720
I, I think I, I think is the 
answer that that is it. 

646
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,400
It's a bit like those there were
those paintings weren't there in

647
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,800
that church in Spain. 
Oh God, yes. 

648
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,800
Yes. 
I know what you mean. 

649
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,000
Some, some, some some well 
meaning parishioner got to work 

650
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:39,080
with the acrylic paint and 
absolutely ruined it, right. 

651
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,120
Yeah. 
And, and, and sometimes it's a 

652
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,440
question of self restraint, you 
know, you know, I have, I have 

653
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,280
stuff right? 
Or I think, right. 

654
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,800
Well, all I can do with this is 
preserve it. 

655
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,480
And if the time and the 
opportunity and the technology 

656
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,440
comes along, either me or 
somebody else will fix it. 

657
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,560
But there's very little I can do
with that except fix it in 

658
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,400
digits which will survive better
and and wait for somebody else 

659
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,600
to do it. 
OK, here's a question sort of 

660
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,400
outside of, you know, your job, 
It's it's more on a personal 

661
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:14,880
level. 
What? 

662
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,040
Sandy Mason What's Ted's 
favorite goon show? 

663
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,480
Favorite or least favorite? 
Or both? 

664
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,480
Yeah, I, I, I'm a little 
reluctant to talk about least 

665
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,360
favorite show because one's 
always aware of the strain that 

666
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,520
Spike was under producing these 
things Apropos. 

667
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:47,560
I, I do occasionally look at the
Facebook groups and somebody 

668
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,280
said something about, oh, in the
50s, it was absolutely 

669
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:58,720
marvellous just waiting for next
Sunday to see what wonderful 

670
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,120
things would, would, would, 
would come over the radio. 

671
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,040
Yes. 
And I said I, I sort of put in a

672
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,440
comment to the effect that I 
think Harry and Peter felt the 

673
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,440
same way while Spike was there 
in the engine room digging away 

674
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,080
producing this stuff. 
And, and, and they were sort of 

675
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,560
I, I think I've seen something 
to the effect that, you know, 

676
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,360
that it, it was for them. 
It was a time for wishing for 

677
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,440
every day of the week to be a 
Sunday because they would be let

678
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,920
out from the variety stuff into 
this playground that really good

679
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,520
strikes for them. 
And, you know, I was just trying

680
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,560
to sort of, you know, draw the 
thing and then some somebody 

681
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:39,120
came back and said, well, many 
people contributed to the goon 

682
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,800
show. 
You know, I'm sorry, I saw the 

683
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,160
red rag. 
I just snapped back and said, Oh

684
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,800
yes, absolutely. 
See my 14 volumes of the Gunshow

685
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:55,000
compendium for chapter and 
verse, which was mean of me. 

686
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,160
But you know, yes, as as as far 
I mean, there are some shows 

687
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,440
which are a bit weak. 
The eighth series shows still 

688
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,000
have enough in them for me to 
like them. 

689
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:12,640
I think the one that stands out 
to me as weak is second of the 

690
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,640
sixth series, The Secret 
Escritoire. 

691
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:19,440
OK, yeah, to me that's just a 
bit forced. 

692
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:26,080
Now I don't want to be overly 
critical because if you look at 

693
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:32,800
the context, OK, dreaded pattern
pulling herder Mark 2 was a last

694
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:38,320
minute replacement for summaries
of coming in, which was a 

695
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,800
special which never happened. 
It didn't happen because Merlin 

696
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,360
couldn't complete the script 
because he was ill. 

697
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:44,600
Yeah. 
OK. 

698
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,480
Now, six series followed not 
very long after that. 

699
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,760
After having thrown the 
typewriter, Eric Sykes 

700
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,920
roundabout sinking of 
Westminster Pier, Eric Sykes 

701
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,760
comes back for the first few 
shows to help spike out. 

702
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,000
You see, I don't particularly 
mind the man who won the ball or

703
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,560
I love that. 
Yeah, you know, Yes, I am the, 

704
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,840
you know, the, the like, you 
know, the man who won the ball's

705
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,680
got the running gag, you know, 
sea goon number. 

706
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,160
Yeah. 
And and of course, the lost 

707
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,440
emperor, I mean, I mean, that 
that turned up in the 1975 

708
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,720
repeat series. 
So. 

709
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,040
So that's fine. 
But no, I, I I I didn't say that

710
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,200
just strikes me as a bit false. 
But then, you know, Napoleon's 

711
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,880
piano comes along the following 
week and always forgiven, of 

712
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,560
course. 
Yes, It's magnificent. 

713
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:42,040
Yeah. 
Favorite I I mean, it's awfully 

714
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,360
dull, but I mean, I mean, coral 
of the West is a towering thing,

715
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,600
isn't it? 
See. 

716
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,880
OK, I'm not that keen on it. 
Interesting. 

717
00:49:54,280 --> 00:50:00,040
Well, you see what what appeals 
to me about it is the pace and 

718
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:05,480
and the assurance of it all. 
Granted, I suppose it's near 

719
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,880
incomprehensible to somebody not
absolutely steeped in the goons.

720
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,080
Perhaps his appeal isn't very 
wide. 

721
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,720
But then you know, you know, if 
you close that off. 

722
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:20,120
Of course, a lot of them are are
are the ones that came out on 

723
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,080
disc because they were reckoned 
as some of the best of the time.

724
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:29,640
And by and large, I can't fault 
George Martin's choice if you've

725
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,000
got dishonoured again. 
Yes. 

726
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:37,200
Which is wonderful. 
Tell us about Dartmoor. 

727
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,880
Yeah. 
Driving down the King's Highway 

728
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,920
in one of his, one of His 
Majesty's prisons. 

729
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,120
And you know, the thing that 
always makes me laugh in in in 

730
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,560
Old Dartmoor is the sea battle. 
Oh yeah. 

731
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,280
When, when, when, you know, when
they when they put Eccles Ball 

732
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,160
into the cannon and he's just 
sort of burbling away and the 

733
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:12,280
chain is running just like, oh, 
brilliant, brilliant stuff. 

734
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,000
Which rather begs the question, 
you know, if the peaks were 

735
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,120
already out on Nehemiah, what 
the hell were you doing 

736
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,680
restoring the rest of them? 
But I'll skirt that question 

737
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,240
gently and just leave it as a 
trivial exercise for the 

738
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:29,040
listener. 
For for what it's worth, my 

739
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,560
favorite It's one that no one 
ever talks about. 

740
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,680
It's the white box of Great 
Bardfield. 

741
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,400
Oh, absolutely. 
Well, you see, it has that very 

742
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:37,720
neat plot. 
Yes. 

743
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:46,800
Does it not? 
And yes, it also has the most 

744
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,040
infamous remark in the Goon 
show, which I won't repeat. 

745
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,480
Oh, yes, yeah, twice, I think. 
Indeed, indeed. 

746
00:51:54,320 --> 00:52:02,800
But but it's, it's, no, it's, 
it's it's, I was going to say 

747
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,840
it's one of the first plots 
which is really tight, but then 

748
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,760
Lurgy strikes. 
Britain was pretty damn good 

749
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:16,000
too, from that point of view. 
Yeah, so many of those Series 5 

750
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,400
shows though, like Spanish 
Suitcase, they're quite tightly 

751
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,760
plotted. 
Well, I think standards, I, I 

752
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,800
think a lot of that is the 
site's influence. 

753
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,680
Yeah. 
It gets argued back and forth, 

754
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,240
doesn't it? 
Whether they did alternate weeks

755
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:32,560
or whether they collaborated on 
each script. 

756
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,920
I'm not sure That could be 
teased out now. 

757
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,360
I mean, if somebody can, it'd be
interesting to see, but 

758
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:46,400
certainly no, no, a lot of 
those, a lot of those shows are 

759
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,360
very fine. 
Here's here's a question. 

760
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,480
I don't quite, I'm not quite. 
It's not really. 

761
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,320
It's kind of a question sort of.
OK, OK. 

762
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:01,440
Adrian Gregg, I'd like to hear 
the pick of the Goon series CN 

763
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,920
1546 and 1645 as they are in 
simulated stereo. 

764
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,640
I have a 15 minute bit I got 
from the GSPS 35 years ago. 

765
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:12,960
Would be interesting to hear 
more. 

766
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:16,200
Oh, and in restoring the shows 
with some of the missing bits at

767
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,440
the end of each reel of tape. 
I spoke to a guy who restored. 

768
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,200
I'm Sorry, I'll read that again.
And the TS copies he worked on 

769
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,680
had all the cut materials 
spliced together at the end. 

770
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,800
All right, let's, let's take the
the pendant first because that's

771
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,520
got a shortage answer. 
In fact, the shortest answer to 

772
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:41,560
that is maybe a lot of that 
depended on who the particular 

773
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,960
engineer was doing the editing. 
Some were very cavalier and it 

774
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,520
ended up on the floor and got 
swept up and that was the end of

775
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,480
that. 
Some were equally conscientious 

776
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,520
and joined all the cuts together
and put them behind the red, as 

777
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,880
we say, the the red leader being
the end of The Wanted program. 

778
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:09,320
So for instance, the Hancock's 
half hours, which were the 26th 

779
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:16,320
or 27 which were done for the 
reissues, nearly all of those 

780
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:24,480
had the cuts after the red. 
So it was at least you had all 

781
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,040
the material. 
I'm not going to say it was easy

782
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,320
and I'm not going to say it was 
straightforward because it was 

783
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,440
neither. 
But but at least the material 

784
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,400
was there. 
Sorry, what just cut? 

785
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,600
Sorry to interrupt you. 
What was the thinking behind 

786
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,400
keeping that cut material back 
in the 1950s? 

787
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,000
Did they Were they thinking that
far ahead about? 

788
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,360
Having it all put in in the 
1950s, there was practically no 

789
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,240
material behind the red. 
Oh, right. 

790
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,640
OK. 
In the 1960s, Pick of the goons,

791
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:54,200
the reissues of Hancock's Half 
Hour. 

792
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,280
Right, right, right. 
OK. 

793
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:01,120
There was more awareness that 
these were going to be something

794
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,560
for the ages and it would be a 
good idea to collect his stuff. 

795
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,640
It may also have been the 
influence of the guy who by then

796
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:13,600
was looking after that material.
Stan Stancliffe was originally 

797
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,120
an engineer and then became a 
production assistant on Variety,

798
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:23,600
and it was he who drove Pick of 
the Goons and Hancock's Half 

799
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,400
Hour reissues and early Hancock 
and the simulated stereo stuff. 

800
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:35,760
And I think he had a little bit 
of more sense of what this 

801
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,120
product actually was and that 
there may be some mileage in 

802
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,360
being able to reassemble it for 
domestic transmission. 

803
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,680
Again. 
I think he had half an eye to 

804
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,680
the future. 
Yeah, I never met him. 

805
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,320
So I'm guessing and, and I'm 
going on, I'm going on what 

806
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,240
colleagues at transcription told
me about him. 

807
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,960
The the other reason for all 
this was, for instance, things 

808
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,600
like certainly around the horn 
Transcription edited up their 

809
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,800
own edition from a tape which 
they they they recorded 

810
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,760
simultaneously with the 
transmission tape. 

811
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:12,840
Yeah, somebody. 
Do you know what? 

812
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,200
Just last week when I was 
talking about A Christmas Carol.

813
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:22,360
Yes, my guest Andy Bell, he'd 
attended a recording of Round 

814
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,840
the horn back in the day. 
And so just that they at the end

815
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,680
of the recording proper, they 
the the cast then recorded bits 

816
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:36,000
for for TS and he said the the 
audience was kind of respects 

817
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,960
was spent by then. 
So the reaction was lessened. 

818
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:43,840
Yes, yes, yes, yes. 
It's, it's retakes in. 

819
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,240
Retakes in, in, in, in. 
Comedy shows generally are quite

820
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:50,480
difficult. 
Yeah, it very much depends on 

821
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,680
your well, in television it 
depends on your floor manager, 

822
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,720
because if you're floor manager 
is enough of character to keep 

823
00:56:57,720 --> 00:57:00,880
people in this sort of stage 
content and amusement and kind 

824
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,840
of make a joke out of it. 
Look, guys, just just wipe all 

825
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,560
that from your memory and laugh 
at this joke like you haven't 

826
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,640
heard it before and sort of get 
the audience on your side. 

827
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,040
Then that's then that's quite an
asset. 

828
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:21,040
Like one of the shows we have 
retakes extent for in goons is 

829
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:22,880
Robin Hood. 
Dennis. 

830
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,600
Please. 
Yes, the TS special and some of 

831
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,320
those retakes fall completely on
their face. 

832
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,680
Partly because I think the 
inflections are wrong. 

833
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,400
You know the lines aren't 
delivered. 

834
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,320
Well, no, but also because I 
think the audience are fed up by

835
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,640
that point. 
Robin, don't call your men off. 

836
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,440
Call them off to hear me. 
Come on by. 

837
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,200
Come back, please. 
I don't do no more jokes like 

838
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:51,960
that. 
We give in your jokes, your bad 

839
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,760
jokes. 
All right, Well, we haven't got 

840
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,200
any louder than ours. 
It's like in classical 

841
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,760
recording, you know, the 
conductor has to if he's going 

842
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,080
to do a correction tag, he has 
to get his tempo exactly the 

843
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,840
same as it was. 
Otherwise the thing would jar 

844
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,320
over the edit. 
He's like, hello, he's shifted 

845
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,880
gear. 
And there there was one case in 

846
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:20,440
I think piano of a conductor who
was basically should have been 

847
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,560
on the Subs bench by then, but 
he had 11 goes at recording the 

848
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,800
first movement as Schubert's 
unfinished in 11 different 

849
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,080
Tempe, at which point they 
abandoned the sessions that 

850
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:32,840
we're not going to get anything 
issuable out of that. 

851
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:39,560
So yes, sometimes it was that 
domestic were taking a recording

852
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,400
in the studio transcription. 
We're taking a recording down 

853
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:46,000
the line and they were each 
editing up their own edition of 

854
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,800
the show. 
Certainly first series around 

855
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,240
the horn. 
There was quite a lot of that. 

856
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,680
There were sort of great amounts
of, of material which were 

857
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,040
basically pulling out the show 
to length to cover for taking 

858
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,720
out domestic and topical 
references elsewhere. 

859
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,160
So that you still end up with a 
show round about 2728 minutes. 

860
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,840
And, and, and that would be a 
reason for keeping the keeping 

861
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,840
the cuts because they would be 
sort of no other copy of that 

862
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,840
version. 
And you know, it was thought a 

863
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,800
sensible thing to keep the cuts 
at that point. 

864
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:27,120
Stereo goons is big subject. 
So I'll try and give you the 

865
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:32,200
salient points. 
Simulated stereo started in 

866
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:40,200
transcription service mid 60s, 
largely because stereo radio was

867
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,800
introduced in the USA long 
before it was standardized over 

868
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,760
here. 
We had to wait for the EBU to 

869
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,760
agree on the standard, which 
funnily enough turned out to be 

870
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,360
the standard which was used in 
the states before they approved.

871
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,480
It was called the Zenith GE 
System, and after they approved 

872
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,600
it they called it the Pilot Tone
System or the Multiplex system. 

873
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:06,960
But BBC Domestic didn't start 
transmitting any stereo 

874
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,800
officially on on on Multiplex 
until 1966. 

875
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:16,280
They were. 
Experiments from roundabout 1962

876
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,120
I think, and some in more 
regulars from 64. 

877
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,920
But the the the actual service 
plus the infrastructure to 

878
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:28,120
provide the stereo programs only
started to build up from 1966 

879
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,680
and wasn't completely in place 
until the early 70s. 

880
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,400
Meantime, there was 
transcription service exporting 

881
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:40,080
programs to America, where the 
demand was for stereo. 

882
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:45,400
They'd been recording in stereo 
since 1962 quite extensively. 

883
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,720
But there was this huge library 
of serious music, particularly 

884
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,200
going back into the 50s, and 
there was seen to be some light 

885
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:58,280
in in stimulating, simulating 
stereo. 

886
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,520
Yes, let's say transcription 
called it simulated stereo. 

887
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,480
You know, in, in, in the 
commercial disc market it was 

888
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,000
usually electronically repro for
stereo effect. 

889
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,320
And the Germans abandoned all 
presents. 

890
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:15,520
They just called it bright 
clang, which is basically means 

891
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,440
wide sound. 
So there you are. 

892
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,760
And and yes, you, you give the 
thing an impression of width by 

893
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,480
frequency division and you add 
some reverberation. 

894
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,800
If you're clever, you add the 
reverberation to the difference 

895
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,040
channel. 
And if you're further clever, 

896
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:36,560
you do your frequency division 
by putting some lumps and bumps 

897
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,880
in the frequency response of the
mono signal and moving that to 

898
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,720
the left. 
And then you subtract that from 

899
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,040
the sum, you subtract them from 
your original, and you put that 

900
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:52,000
result over on the right. 
So somebody doesn't like your 

901
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,280
artificial stereo. 
All they've got to do is press 

902
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,120
the mono button and you're back 
with the original mono. 

903
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,680
Oh, OK, right, OK. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can 

904
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,320
understand that, yeah. 
Well some, well a lot of people 

905
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,640
in the 60s didn't and they did 
various odd things like delays 

906
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,920
and all sort of things which 
just screwed up the sound in 

907
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,920
stereo or mono. 
Transcription services 

908
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,640
artificial stereo was actually 
quite good, particularly on 

909
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:20,000
serious music. 
Now this obviously proved to be 

910
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,200
a good seller in 1972. 
As we know, transcription 

911
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,360
service did a multi track 
recording of the last Goon show 

912
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:32,000
of all yeah, mix that down into 
stereo came out of the records a

913
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:36,960
film and a lawsuit, you know, 
and Oh no, that was something 

914
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,360
else, wasn't it? 
Anyway, this went down very well

915
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,720
with the customers. 
So Stan thought, right, what 

916
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,480
should we do? 
Can we render some of our Goon 

917
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:54,640
catalogue into simulated stereo?
Now EMI tried this in their 

918
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:59,760
commercial issue of the Red Fort
and 10 Downing St. yes, not very

919
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,120
good, no little little bit of 
spreads like bathroom acoustic 

920
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:07,240
and didn't work, didn't work. 
And and Stan was approaching 

921
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:08,640
this from a completely different
thing. 

922
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:15,000
And essentially how it was done 
was that each speech was 

923
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,520
separately copied to another 
tape. 

924
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:24,080
It was panned across the stereo 
image, and once that had been 

925
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,000
done, you you had to sort of 
take the script and plan it out 

926
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,280
as to how you were going to do 
it, obviously, otherwise you'd 

927
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,520
get hopelessly lost. 
You'd have to cut the thing 

928
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,840
altogether. 
The music items and music links 

929
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,360
would have to be sort of spread 
in the sort of frequency 

930
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,480
reverberation way I've 
described, and then the whole 

931
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:45,680
thing would have to be 
meticulously cut together. 

932
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:52,200
The final touch was a little 
reverberation to simulate PA 

933
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:56,240
coloration. 
If you have any radio show 

934
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:02,880
recorded in the studio, you have
to feed some of the mixed signal

935
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:06,720
into speakers for the audience 
to hear because people are 

936
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,800
performing to the microphone 
that that sound isn't going to 

937
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,000
carry to the audience. 
You have to give them stuff over

938
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,760
speakers. 
Obviously you arrange matters so

939
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,160
that you don't get feedback, but
you sometimes get a little bit 

940
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,480
of coloration. 
So that fact was used to 

941
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,760
advantage and put a tiny bit of 
sort of stereo reverberation 

942
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:29,240
around the whole just to give 
the thing a sort of a frame so 

943
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,840
that it didn't sound contrived. 
The individual panned voices 

944
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,240
were also put through a a 
spreader so that they weren't 

945
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,800
actually sort of pinpoints. 
So the whole thing had a had a 

946
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,880
had vaguely sort of plausible 
feel to it. 

947
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,400
Some of those shows were done 
very well indeed. 

948
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,640
Some some of them were just done
by engineers that this was this 

949
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:52,240
was a job. 
They had to do it and they did 

950
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,040
it all right. 
But it didn't have that quite 

951
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,640
touch of class to it. 
Not going to name names, but 

952
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:02,520
there were some guys who did a 
really very nice job indeed, and

953
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:03,960
others where it was merely 
adequate. 

954
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:11,000
Now the interesting thing of 
course is that certainly at the 

955
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:16,640
time it was thought better that 
Milligan didn't know about this,

956
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:23,440
which is why when you look at 
the Goon Show Companion, you 

957
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:27,440
will see that the third and 
fourth series have the catalogue

958
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,840
number and stroke s s after 
them, and that is the only 

959
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:37,040
reference to simulated stereo. 
OK, OK. 

960
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,000
So the 3rd and the fourth 
series, the pick of the goons 

961
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:45,400
were done in simulated hysteria.
Later on pick of the goons 1 to 

962
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,400
26 were done in simulated 
hysteria. 

963
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,080
They were only issued on tape. 
The the 3rd and 4th series ones 

964
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,800
were were issued on disk and 
1:00 to 1:00 to 26 were tape 

965
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:04,040
only and the remaining whatever 
it is 27 to 58. 

966
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,480
I think from memory they were 
never done. 

967
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,800
Yeah, I, I, I, I think Stan, 
Stan died at some point in this 

968
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,120
process and I think that's more 
or less why it ran into the 

969
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:16,880
sand. 
Nevertheless, those were quite 

970
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:21,680
good. 
Now, I only worked out what was 

971
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:26,800
going on here round about the 
time of the smash of the day 

972
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,800
repeats in the early 80s. 
Oh yeah. 

973
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:37,840
Because basically Radio 4 would 
go to transcription and say, 

974
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:40,000
look, we want this, this and 
this show. 

975
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:46,120
And the latest master would be 
pulled out and dubbed and sent 

976
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,680
over to Radio 4. 
Sometimes a mono master was 

977
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:53,720
used, sometimes a stereo master 
was combined to mono and the 

978
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,920
mono tape was sent to Radio 4. 
And sometimes a stereo tape was 

979
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:02,120
sent over and sometimes Radio 4 
did not collapse it to mono. 

980
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:08,920
And I was avidly taking these, 
the smash of the day goon shows 

981
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,000
off air at the time because, you
know, access was difficult. 

982
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,040
That was that was shows like 
Queen, Queen Anne's reign. 

983
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,600
Personal narrative, I think. 
Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. 

984
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:24,240
And, and, and some of those I 
remember I, you know, I've got 

985
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:29,000
the Reebok setup and, and 
everything, FM stereo receiver 

986
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:34,600
and, and I was playing this 
thing and, you know, I was 

987
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:40,480
listening on the headphones and 
I'm thinking this thing has got 

988
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,320
width. 
It's Nah, Nah, it can't be 

989
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,680
anyway. 
So I, I, and then, then you sort

990
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,040
of start listening. 
I I string robberies, you see. 

991
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,600
Oh yeah. 
And something alerted me in 

992
01:07:55,600 --> 01:08:03,840
string robberies, right? 
Because quite early on grip Pipe

993
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,480
says we must obtain a certain 
amount of cheap string. 

994
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:10,120
Yes. 
Yeah, OK. 

995
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:17,720
You listen to the stereo one, 
OK, we must is not grip pipe is 

996
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:23,240
secum. 
Why I hear you say why? 

997
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,279
Because at that point Moriarty 
is talking over grip pipe. 

998
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:27,920
We. 
Must try and obtain a certain 

999
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:31,200
amount of cheap string. 
So the two voices are together. 

1000
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:35,200
If you're doing this similar 
hysteria by cutting, you can't 

1001
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:40,520
have two voices together. 
So who did that show had to go 

1002
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:45,720
looking for? 
We must said by grid pipe. 

1003
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:56,600
In fact, it does appear it does 
appear further on, but it Sikkun

1004
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,800
says it's only about two minutes
later. 

1005
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,000
We must start investigations at 
once. 

1006
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,399
OK. 
And I think it's after Geldre 

1007
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,040
that Moriarty says there's a 
nationwide search for people 

1008
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:10,479
with two pieces of string. 
What? 

1009
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,080
We must leave England. 
So he'd gone a bit further. 

1010
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,240
He could actually have done 
that. 

1011
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:15,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
With grip pipe. 

1012
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:21,800
Yeah, Oh God, that's almighty. 
Down a rabbit hole productions 

1013
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:27,319
present, but but that sort of 
struck me. 

1014
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:33,080
I mean, being the kind of 
analytical Eid being that I was 

1015
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,880
then and still am to an extent, 
I thought what is going on? 

1016
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,120
And gradually I sort of teased 
out what was going on. 

1017
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:46,920
And a couple of years later I 
joined transcription and then I 

1018
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,720
was able to talk to the guys who
were involved in it, Tom and 

1019
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,319
Richard and people like that. 
And and then I might sort of 

1020
01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:57,080
tease out the story. 
But but that's what it was. 

1021
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,800
It's fascinating. 
Well, yes, I, I, I mean, there 

1022
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,680
was some talk about putting them
out commercially, but it was 

1023
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:07,000
deemed that it wasn't sort of 
unique enough to be commercially

1024
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,680
viable. 
And in any case, I had to 

1025
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,440
confess, I mean, two minds about
it. 

1026
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,520
It's a little bit like 
colorizing Laurel and Hardy. 

1027
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,600
And I'm not sure that adds much 
to be honest. 

1028
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:24,040
No, not, you know, the Goon show
very large. 

1029
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:28,560
It was conceived as a mono thing
and, and I think stereophonising

1030
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,440
is a slightly questionable 
exercise. 

1031
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,720
It's, it's interesting to hear 
them and they, and they, some of

1032
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:36,560
them, as I say, are beautifully 
crafted. 

1033
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,320
The question is whether it's 
misplaced ingenuity. 

1034
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,040
But then it was a product for a 
market at a given time, and it 

1035
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:45,320
worked. 
OK. 

1036
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:49,320
So one last question. 
I think we have time for Ted. 

1037
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:54,840
This again from Adam Yates. 
Adam says. 

1038
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,960
I'd like to know, was it hard 
work to get all the compendiums 

1039
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,320
released? 
Was there a lot of support 

1040
01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:03,720
through what was a serious 
amount of content over probably 

1041
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,400
a 10 year period? 
Did momentum stalls all with the

1042
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,280
BBC or could they see it was 
beneficial and well worth the 

1043
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,440
investment? 
The change in CD producers from 

1044
01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:15,920
BBC Worldwide if I have this 
correct, maybe not to audio go 

1045
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:17,760
etcetera. 
Did the project have to be 

1046
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,920
presented as worthy again in 
order to continue production of 

1047
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,640
physical media? 
Yes, it did. 

1048
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,200
OK, When we talk about the Goon 
Show Compendium, there's one 

1049
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,520
name which I think has to be 
flagged up and that's Michael 

1050
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,640
Stevens, OK. 
He was the guy I worked to for 

1051
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:45,520
the vast majority of my time 
doing this, doing certainly 

1052
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:50,400
doing the compendium. 
And we, we were already into 

1053
01:11:50,440 --> 01:11:56,800
doing the the two CD sets and 
Michael, as I remember it, 

1054
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:00,880
Michael floated it to me one day
because there had been, you 

1055
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,920
know, the Hancock boxes, which I
think preceded that. 

1056
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:08,440
And they gone down well. 
And, and the actual title, Goon 

1057
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:10,440
Show Compendium came out of his 
head. 

1058
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:14,680
And he said, well, what about 
it? 

1059
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,400
And of course, you know, I 
thought for all of a nanosecond 

1060
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:19,920
before I said, yeah, yeah, let's
do it. 

1061
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,840
And we had sort of think of a 
marketing platform like, you 

1062
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,000
know, what we're going to do 
that was slightly different from

1063
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:27,440
the original releases and 
things. 

1064
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:31,280
And by that point there was a 
bit more leeway in terms of 

1065
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,360
noise reduction techniques that 
I could like brighten up the 

1066
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:36,800
fifth series shows a bit without
bringing the hiss up because 

1067
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:41,400
they were all done on the old 
AXB mics and didn't have quite 

1068
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,520
the crispness of the of the late
6th series and on. 

1069
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:50,760
So, so fine that that that was a
platform to do it all. 

1070
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,160
It all began to happen and then 
it went quiet. 

1071
01:12:54,440 --> 01:13:00,720
And as I remember it, a new guy 
had come in and he'd been 

1072
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:06,000
delegated doing the nuts and 
bolts of it and he'd done a mock

1073
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:12,800
up of the cover and its 
predominant colour was purple. 

1074
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:20,560
And he took this to Norma Farnes
and she went into orbit. 

1075
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:23,520
Sellers. 
Sellers would have been worse I 

1076
01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:26,960
think. 
Well, yes, but of course, you 

1077
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,160
know sellers. 
Sellers hated the colour purple 

1078
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:34,200
and on that ground Norma 
wouldn't hear a word about it. 

1079
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:38,040
Oh, really? 
For nearly a year, as I remember

1080
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,560
it. 
And it felt like an awful, awful

1081
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,400
long time that she, she just 
wouldn't hear about it. 

1082
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:48,640
And, you know, Michael took me 
into his confidence over this 

1083
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:53,160
and said, look, you know, this 
thing is going to happen, but we

1084
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:58,280
just have to bide our time and 
run it past again gently with 

1085
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,000
some better artwork and think it
through better. 

1086
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:03,960
And the guy who's responsible, 
that's far as I remember, 

1087
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,480
curiously enough, he went to 
work for Norma Farms, but not 

1088
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:10,200
for long anyway. 
That that's, that's the sort of,

1089
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,800
you know, thing. 
So there was Michael on the 

1090
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,760
inside of me, on the outside 
and, and between us we, we 

1091
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,400
steered this thing through many 
vicissitudes. 

1092
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:25,160
There was the, the takeover by 
audio go. 

1093
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:28,160
There was the collapse of audio 
go. 

1094
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:32,480
And I don't think it's any 
secret the collapse of audio go 

1095
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:35,800
was a fiasco on a par with 
British Leyland. 

1096
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:41,280
Well, the, the, the rather the 
Rover Group, when, when, when, 

1097
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:45,680
when Rover Group was taken over 
by basically a gang of four who 

1098
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,600
all did very well out of it. 
And the company just dribbled 

1099
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:50,080
away and was bought by the 
Chinese. 

1100
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:58,840
There were five people involved 
in audio go outsiders and they 

1101
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:00,560
did quite a good job of milking 
the company. 

1102
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,920
And it went down very suddenly 
and there was a lot of 

1103
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:08,240
bitterness around that. 
A lot of people felt very 

1104
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,160
betrayed. 
I mean, I was slightly insulated

1105
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:12,960
because I weren't actually 
employed by them. 

1106
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,160
I could, you know, find out the 
work. 

1107
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:20,280
But a lot of these people very, 
you know, hardworking, dedicated

1108
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,600
people in audio go BBC 
Worldwide, as was carried a lot.

1109
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,640
A lot of the people carried over
and and and and things. 

1110
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:32,160
Yeah, it it was a it was a bit 
of time, you know, you, you 

1111
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,120
could see how desperate people 
were because I mean, there were 

1112
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:39,000
there were like people's check 
copies of Goon show compendiums 

1113
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,560
and things being put up on eBay 
for hundreds of pounds. 

1114
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,640
I mean, these people had to find
money from somewhere and they 

1115
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,360
were gambling, I think, on the 
fact that they wouldn't be any 

1116
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:53,640
more and that these things would
have inflated market value. 

1117
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,600
And it was distressing times. 
And then one particularly 

1118
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,400
thoughtless goons, the 
enthusiast started badgering me 

1119
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:02,720
on the phone saying, well, is 
this going to come out? 

1120
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,280
You know, this particular thing 
I delivered a master, I think it

1121
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:11,120
was for one of the four one, one
of the two CD sets I think was 

1122
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:12,760
was in the works when audio go 
went down. 

1123
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,400
And in the end I lost patience 
and I just sort of I let him 

1124
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:18,200
have it. 
I'm afraid. 

1125
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,800
I said, look, there are people 
who don't know where their next 

1126
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,560
supermarket shop is coming from 
and you are winching about this 

1127
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,800
release, you know, away and 
scratch yourself. 

1128
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:30,160
I was a little more emphatic 
than that, but that's that 

1129
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,040
that's doable. 
And then there's quite an 

1130
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:36,320
interregnum because I remember 
talking to Michael when the 

1131
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,920
whole thing went down and he was
like, don't know what I'm going 

1132
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,160
to do. 
I think I'd better take up, take

1133
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,400
up photography again and all 
that sort of thing because 

1134
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:47,480
that's, you know, hobby interest
and you have to make some money 

1135
01:16:47,480 --> 01:16:51,280
out of it and everything and it.
And it was several months before

1136
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:55,480
the BBC put some sort of rescue 
package together and managed to 

1137
01:16:55,480 --> 01:17:01,080
gather together the remnants of.
Fortunately, there'd been people

1138
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:05,280
who'd realized what was 
happening and had gathered most 

1139
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:09,320
of the BBC stuff together. 
And I said to anybody who came 

1140
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,960
in the came in the office when 
you take these things away of my

1141
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,880
dead body. 
So a fair amount of the stuff 

1142
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,000
was preserved. 
So we had something to start 

1143
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,120
from. 
But yeah, I mean, you know, we 

1144
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,840
went back to work. 
I mean, my, my fee was cut by 

1145
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:30,520
something over 40%. 
And, and, you know, the other 

1146
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,360
people were sort of, you know, 
but at least they were back in 

1147
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,160
work. 
We were all back in work and we 

1148
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:41,800
steered this thing through. 
And I think the only trimming 

1149
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,840
for budget was that I think the 
last one with the companion was 

1150
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:50,040
4 discs instead of five. 
But it wasn't an enormous loss. 

1151
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:52,600
And I managed to squeeze most of
the material into 4 discs, which

1152
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,080
would have otherwise gone on 
five. 

1153
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,840
And, and, and Michael deserves 
all credit for steering that 

1154
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:02,680
through because he, he, he dealt
with an awful lot of the office 

1155
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,440
politics and the finance and the
backbiting, which I'm sure 

1156
01:18:05,440 --> 01:18:08,200
happened and, and he did it very
well. 

1157
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:14,400
And we seldom had a disagreement
about anything there. 

1158
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:18,440
There was a bit of Spike 
Milligan, which was thought to 

1159
01:18:18,440 --> 01:18:23,000
be a little strong for 
contemporary tastes. 

1160
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,440
There was a bit of bonus 
material and it was an extract 

1161
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:32,680
of a television, something out 
of queue which taken out of 

1162
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:35,240
context would would not have 
done anybody any good. 

1163
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:37,880
Michael's judgement was sound on
that. 

1164
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,360
In fact his judgement on just 
about everything was very sound.

1165
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:46,160
And anyway, he, he, he managed 
to sort of get through to 

1166
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:52,320
retirement intact, but he, you 
know, he deserves, he deserves 

1167
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:55,440
all credit for, for actually 
making the nuts and bolts of it 

1168
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:56,440
happen. 
Absolutely. 

1169
01:18:56,440 --> 01:18:57,720
Yes. 
I, I did the audio. 

1170
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,400
But but, but he, he saw that 
happen. 

1171
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,400
So yeah, it, it was a bit of a 
fight. 

1172
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:08,880
And as physical media became 
less profitable, it became more 

1173
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,080
of the fight to keep putting it 
out on CD. 

1174
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,640
Of course, you know, the market 
has changed more or less now 

1175
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:18,640
irretrievably. 
I don't like downloads as an 

1176
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,560
issue medium. 
I don't magically like them as a

1177
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,360
collecting medium either. 
I prefer to have physical media.

1178
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,920
But then me too, you know, 
perhaps I'm just a dinosaur now.

1179
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,280
Oh no, me too, me too. 
But but but. 

1180
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:38,480
Well, it's not a popular thing 
to say, but streaming the 

1181
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:42,360
streaming company can take it 
off at any time. 

1182
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,680
Absolutely, yeah. 
And it may then never reappear. 

1183
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:50,080
Someone said to me, who was it? 
Someone told me recently that 

1184
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,680
just with regards to the goons, 
here's an example. 

1185
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:56,040
You can't. 
For some reason. 

1186
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,080
Lurgy strikes. 
Britain's been taken off BBC 

1187
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,680
Sounds. 
We don't know this. 

1188
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:10,160
Oh, there are some rather 
curious decisions to put it no 

1189
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,560
stronger than that going on at 
the moment about. 

1190
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:17,840
What comedy material can and 
can't be put before the delicate

1191
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:22,160
years of the public if it's a 
streaming service? 

1192
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,520
I I mean, I mean, Dirk, Dirk 
made an argument about this, 

1193
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:33,080
which is if you dial up on a 
streaming service or you buy ACD

1194
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:40,120
of a show, you are to an extent 
complicit in that. 

1195
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:42,440
You say, well, look, this is a 
comedy show. 

1196
01:20:42,440 --> 01:20:47,040
This is an old comedy show and I
should regard it in the context 

1197
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,800
in which it was made. 
If you're putting stuff out on 

1198
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:54,280
an ordinary radio schedule where
people would just have the radio

1199
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,560
on and they don't have any 
particular exercise, any 

1200
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:00,240
particular choice about what 
they're going to hear next, then

1201
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:02,320
fine. 
You're sensitivities have to be 

1202
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,520
rather more finely tuned because
you know, you don't want to 

1203
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:10,240
upset the audience unnecessarily
if it's a general audience. 

1204
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,320
But if your audience is actually
made itself a specific audience 

1205
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:17,440
as being to that extent self 
selecting because they want to 

1206
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:21,640
listen to a particular show, 
then I think the standard 

1207
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:25,240
warning which goes out on a lot 
of streaming services that you 

1208
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:28,000
know, this is of its time and 
reflects attitudes blah de blah,

1209
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,480
that should be enough. 
Sorry, I've wandered off the. 

1210
01:21:31,480 --> 01:21:35,240
Point no, but you're saying 
about physical media my friend 

1211
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:42,960
always says if you're buying it 
CD or a DVD of archive 

1212
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,080
television or archive radio, 
whatever it may be, you're 

1213
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:51,160
inviting it into your home. 
It's your choice, so you 

1214
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,200
shouldn't feel aggrieved as a 
result by. 

1215
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,600
Well, and and neither should you
be spoon fed. 

1216
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:02,320
No, which, as I say, the the 
reason I'm sorry, I read that 

1217
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:07,040
again, never appeared as as ACD 
set. 

1218
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:13,840
I I mean there were complicated 
rights issues, but also a lot of

1219
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:19,280
the a lot, a lot of humour was 
guying of stereotypes. 

1220
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:24,920
And it's a little bit like till 
death has depart. 

1221
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:34,040
You've got Alf Garnett spouting 
this awful stuff, but the point 

1222
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:36,360
is that he's to be laughed at, 
not laughed with. 

1223
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:40,360
Yes. 
Because Spate, I mean, Spate 

1224
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,520
fancied himself the 
reincarnation of George Bernard 

1225
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:43,480
Shaw. 
I'm sure he did. 

1226
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:51,080
But but you know, he did try to 
make very cogent points. 

1227
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,440
I mean, if you want, you know, 
another example of pure Spate, I

1228
01:22:54,440 --> 01:22:57,720
mean, you look at the Arthur 
Haines show, a lot of which I 

1229
01:22:57,720 --> 01:22:59,960
find very uncomfortable 
listening personally. 

1230
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,600
But you can't dispute the craft 
of it. 

1231
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:07,160
And it's it's, it's taking 
social attitudes. 

1232
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,960
Well, the Arthur Haines show is 
sort of a different way in that 

1233
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,360
the Arthur Haines tramp 
character was attacking 

1234
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:15,120
comfortable, conventional people
who held these attitudes, 

1235
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:18,560
whereas Garnett was actually 
spouting them. 

1236
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,720
He, he, he was the working class
man who aspired to these things 

1237
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:24,240
or what he thought these things 
were. 

1238
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:29,600
And, and, and making comedy out 
of it that way and in space 

1239
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:33,480
himself was quite as saying, 
look, I would rather insult 

1240
01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:38,560
people or make them miserable as
long as I make them aware. 

1241
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:44,280
And some people would argue that
that's comedy trying to get 

1242
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:45,720
above itself, but I don't think 
so. 

1243
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,760
I mean, a lot of stuff in the 
goons, you know, Africa is now 

1244
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,240
on sale to anybody who wants to 
make it a second India, right. 

1245
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:57,560
Yeah. 
Bit of social comment there as 

1246
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,240
as Elton would say. 
Yes, sit nearer to Africa. 

1247
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:05,560
It's warmer there, you know, 
There's nothing like Africa to 

1248
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,120
keep your nation, nothing like 
an Africa party. 

1249
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,360
I can. 
Yes folks, do away with dirty 

1250
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,360
coal. 
Keep yourselves warm with 

1251
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:16,080
Africa. 
Africa is now on sale to anyone 

1252
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,320
who wants to make it a second 
India you. 

1253
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:21,520
Hear that, Min? 
You hear that, Min? 

1254
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,400
They'll knock Africa down and 
build flats there. 

1255
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:28,160
Cocky you mark what I say. 
Where on earth did we start 

1256
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:31,840
this? 
The compendium, yes, OK. 

1257
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:35,160
Yeah, no, no, no. 
Look the the the compendium, I 

1258
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:40,200
certainly in the in in the 
comedy field, I suppose will be 

1259
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:44,120
thought of as my masterpiece. 
Yes, I mean, I mean that, that 

1260
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:46,320
that's the thing people will 
remember if they remember 

1261
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,840
anything. 
Not bad thing to be remembered 

1262
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:51,760
for. 
Well, it seems so good, a lot of

1263
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:54,040
pleasure to a lot of people. 
And after all, that's the point.

1264
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:56,960
Yes. 
I, I did love doing it. 

1265
01:24:57,560 --> 01:24:59,840
There were a couple of times it 
felt like a bit of a life 

1266
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:02,560
sentence, but having got that 
far through, I was damned if I 

1267
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,240
wasn't going to see it through 
to the end, you know, at the 

1268
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:10,840
standards I set myself. 
And, you know, that applied to, 

1269
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,800
you know, doing the notes and 
everything too and, and, and, 

1270
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:17,960
and all that sort of thing. 
But I, I, I do think, I mean, 

1271
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:19,520
it's a take away. 
It's fair to say that without 

1272
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:22,400
Michael cheerleading for us in 
the various quarters it it 

1273
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,000
wouldn't have happened. 
Yes. 

1274
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:26,320
So thanks. 
A bundle, Michael. 

1275
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:28,640
I mean it. 
OK. 

1276
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,680
Well, Ted, it's been marvelous. 
The clock is against us and I 

1277
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:36,040
think, I think we did. 
We still got quite a number of 

1278
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:39,120
questions that we haven't 
managed to tackle, but that OK 

1279
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:42,880
may have to happen another day. 
If there's an look, if the 

1280
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,080
audience is still awake, fine, 
Yeah, we'll do it. 

1281
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:49,040
OK. 
But yes, thank you so much for 

1282
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:53,480
coming back and putting up with 
me and, and, and the audience 

1283
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:56,720
questions. 
And all I want to say is I hope 

1284
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,000
that you have a a marvellous 
Christmas. 

1285
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:00,880
Thank you. 
You too. 

1286
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:04,200
And and a happy New Year and I 
will definitely catch up with 

1287
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:08,000
you again next year and we'll 
see about 1/3 return visit or a 

1288
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,000
second return visit second. 
Oh, this could this one could 

1289
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,040
run and run. 
It could, perish the thought, 

1290
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:17,720
bet all the very best and and 
God bless you. 

1291
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:19,680
Thank you. 
You too, buddy.