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00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,680
Ravelli, take a letter, 
gentlemen. 

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Question Mark. 
You want that in the letter. 

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00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:10,560
No, Put in an envelope. 
Flywheel is a lawyer, an 

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attorney in the States who runs 
a rather shabby and rundown 

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office with his secretary, Miss 
Dimple. 

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And in our pilot show, a young 
Italian turns up called Emmanuel

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00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,360
Ravelli. 
That's all, Ravelli. 

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00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,960
Now read me what you have. 
Honourable Charles, the Vasis, 

9
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Legel Caravasis, Legel, Vasis, 
Legel and McCormick. 

10
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You left out of Vasis Legel, the
main one too. 

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Thought you could slip one over 
on me, didn't you? 

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Eh. 
Flywheel's a real ambulance 

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chaser of an attorney. 
He has all the seediness that 

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was a hallmark of Groucho's. 
The greatest part, one of the 

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00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,400
things you've got to do is to 
convince the listeners that you 

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are Groucho Marx and you are 
Chico. 

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Can you do that? 
Well, I think we may come across

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more as the Dali sisters. 
But we'll do our best. 

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We're taking money under false 
pretenses. 

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00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:56,840
We're taking money under any 
pretenses. 

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Hello and welcome to Goonpot. 
My name is Tyler Adams and this 

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is the show in which some guests
and I look back at classic 

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comedy with the goons as the 
starting point. 

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Now pretty much every episode 
with either covered something 

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directly goon related, had one 
of the goons in it, or which was

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influenced in some way by the 
goons for which read Milligan 

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usually. 
But today we're turning that on 

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its head. 
I think most people, sort of 

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people who know about these 
things, agree that a primary 

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influence, probably the primary 
influence on Spike Milligan and 

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something which echoes 
throughout the Goon Show, is the

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Marx Brothers. 
It feels like every other week 

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me or a guest makes a comment 
along the lines of that's pure 

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Groucho or something like that 
when discussing either a goon 

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show or or something that Spike 
was later involved with. 

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And as he entered his twilight 
years, Spike was quite 

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forthright in his opinions on 
modern comedy. 

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He had no time for the 
alternative or mainstream comedy

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content being broadcast in the 
80s, nineties and he was doing 

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what we today would consider the
unthinkable, railing against 

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00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,880
Rick Male and Blackadder and and
the like. 

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But there was one major 
exception to this. 

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There was one comedy program on 
the BBC which escaped his fury. 

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He enjoyed it so much he somehow
managed to turn up as a guest in

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it twice. 
And that program was Flywheel 

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Shyster and Flywheel, first 
broadcast on BBC Radio 4 in 1990

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and which ran for three series. 
Now you could say that nothing 

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quite like Flywheel, Shyster and
Flywheel had been heard on 

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British radio before. 
Brash, exuberant, winking at the

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audience with performers you 
really could believe might have 

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earned their spurs appearing in 
vaudeville. 

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00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,040
And it was largely based on 
material produced 6 decades 

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earlier, adapted and updated 
with the foot firmly on the gas.

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So this week I'm delighted to 
welcome three of the principal 

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people behind the BBC Flywheel 
series, and we're going to talk 

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about how it came about, 
particular memories of making 

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the show and what sort of impact
it had on them and their career.

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And yes, we will be talking 
about Spike's involvement too. 

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So without further ado, I'm very
fortunate to be joined by 

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Michael Roberts, Frank Lazarus 
and Dirk Mags. 

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Hi. 
Hello. 

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Hello. 
So before we kick off and and 

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look at the, if you like the the
beginnings of Flywheel, Shyster 

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and Flywheel. 
I just want to go around the 

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table metaphorically and ask 
each of you about your history 

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00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,960
with the Marx Brothers and how 
they shaped your lives. 

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00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,480
Quite significantly, I guess is 
the obvious short answer to 

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that. 
But Michael, let's start with 

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you. 
So you played Groucho Marx 

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playing Waldorf T flywheel and 
it was a remarkable performance,

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perfectly capturing the Groucho 
voice, the the energy, the the, 

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the delivery. 
And I'm sorry for making that 

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sound really clinical, but I'm 
guessing that's an act you've 

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probably done all your life, Is 
it? 

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Kind of. 
My dad used and my dad had a 

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moustache not a not a grease 
pain one and he used to lope 

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round the living room doing 
Groucho impressions and I grew 

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up in Tottenham and there were 
20 cinemas then in the 50s and 

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he was, he was always taking me 
whenever they did reissues. 

80
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And there was a cinema called 
the Vogue Continental which was 

81
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actually part of the classic 
chain in Dalston. 

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00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,560
And I don't know why, but they 
they they showed all the 

83
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Paramount, the early Paramount 
ones. 

84
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,960
So I got to see those about the 
age of eight or nine, you know, 

85
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not on TV but actually in the 
cinema. 

86
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And so I, I and I was always 
doing impersonations and voices 

87
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,840
and things as a kid because I 
was such a show off and I did a 

88
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lot. 
I used to do with Groucho 

89
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,920
impressions, but I never thought
I'd be playing Groucho. 

90
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And then when I became an actor,
my agents rang me and said 

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they're auditioning for this 
show In Scotland, Little company

92
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:44,160
called Borderline are doing a 
show for the Edinburgh Fringe 

93
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,560
and then the tour of Scotland, 
and they're looking for someone 

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to play Groucho. 
So I went along to it and I was 

95
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,040
the last person to be seen that 
day. 

96
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,040
And the director, Morag 
Fullerton and the the lady who 

97
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,600
was the choreographer, they were
sitting chatting and Morag was 

98
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,320
saying, well, let let's go and 
have a drink. 

99
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,280
And I thought, oh, well, they're
off now because it's the last 

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00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,640
thing of the day and they and 
they said you're coming, aren't 

101
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,800
you? 
And I said, oh, am I? 

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She said, well, you got the 
park. 

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00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,520
So that was how I got it. 
And what had happened was that 

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the Dick and Frank were wanted 
to rework a day in Hollywood, so

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that wasn't available. 
But the company were doing a 

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little Scots review called 
Lassie Phone Home and then a 

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00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,000
night in the Ukraine, which was 
the Marx Brothers musical as the

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second-half of the show. 
So that's that's that's what 

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happened. 
And that's how I did that. 

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00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,880
That was in 83. 
Oh my God. 

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00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:58,880
And in 88, please correct me if 
I'm wrong about this, Frank, but

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by then, you and Dick had just 
had reworked day in Hollywood to

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how you wanted it to be. 
So borderline, We're going to do

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00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,360
that again. 
And I got asked to do Groucho 

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00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,400
again. 
So this time we're able to do 

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00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,800
the whole show. 
And then after that, that was 

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00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,520
two years later, I got a phone 
call from my agents saying 

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they're doing a pilot for a Marx
Brothers radio series. 

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Are you interested in playing 
Groucho? 

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And I said, yeah, when, When 
does the director want to meet 

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me? 
And it was No, no, you've got 

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the part. 
I find assistant you are 

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00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,320
Ravelli. 
I send you out the select 

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00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,600
medical instruments and you pick
a saxophone. 

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00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,160
Hey, you crazy boss. 
You know, pick a saxophone, you 

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00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:52,720
pick a mandolin. 
I prefer to wait for the 

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00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:56,760
intellectual ones, you know, I 
see Ravelli. 

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00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,440
Something tells me this little 
incident is going to end in 

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violence. 
Violence. 

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00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,200
Sure. 
I got one of those, too. 

131
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,480
I. 
Didn't know Jack Benny was here.

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00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,160
Ravelli. 
I'm going to raise your salary. 

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As a fine boss. 
It's nothing at all. 

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00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,760
I'm only raising your pace, so 
you'll feel worse when I fire 

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00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,200
you. 
So Frank, what about you in 

136
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,880
terms of exposure to the Marx 
Brothers? 

137
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,960
Well, unlike Michael, I didn't 
grow up with the Marx Brothers. 

138
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,520
But I did grow up with The Goon 
Show because I grew up in a 

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00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,280
little seaside resort that was a
suburb of Cape Town, South 

140
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,039
Africa, and it was still a 
British colony. 

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00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,440
And so the South African 
Broadcasting Corporation 

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00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:49,240
imported British comedy shows 
including The Goon Show. 

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00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:55,840
And I think I must have seen one
or two Marx Brothers movies at 

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00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,600
the time, but not really related
very much to them because I 

145
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,600
didn't understand what they were
doing. 

146
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:10,520
The anti establishment kind of 
humour which I only got to 

147
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:16,280
understand much much later on 
when I could appreciate the 

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00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:27,440
contrast between high society in
America and the immigrants who 

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00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,440
had come from all over the 
place, including the Marxists 

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00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,720
and how they were. 
Their humour was based on 

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00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,320
sticking it to the 
establishment, who was very 

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00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,800
often represented by the great 
grand Dame Margaret DuMont. 

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00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:51,680
And of course, once I got 
involved in the Marx Brothers 

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00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:57,240
world, I I loved all that and 
related to it instantly. 

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00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,880
My involvement is really quite 
complicated. 

156
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:08,320
I heard that Dick Vosborough, an
American comedy writer living in

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00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:16,240
London, was going to be doing a 
Marx Brothers show and was 

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00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,280
looking for an actor who could 
play the piano, who could play 

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00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:26,000
the part of Chico Marx. 
I have been doing the Eric Satie

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00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,720
show and the choreographer had a
girlfriend whom I hadn't met but

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00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,120
had seen me in the show and she 
knew Dick and so she recommended

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00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,320
me. 
I got in touch with Dick and 

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00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:48,360
that led instantly to he's 
asking me to play the part of 

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00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,720
Chico. 
And I said, well, I do think you

165
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,880
should audition me, just in 
case. 

166
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,280
But I secretly felt I was 
perfect for the whole thing. 

167
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,720
And I discovered we both lived 
in Islington. 

168
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,600
I said, well, I have a piano, 
why don't you come over? 

169
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:16,160
And he said, I set aside today 
to find a Groucho and a composer

170
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,520
for the show. 
I said, oh, I see, OK, I put the

171
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,240
phone down. 
I let 10 or 20 seconds go by. 

172
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,320
And I dialed him again. 
And I said, so have you found 

173
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,800
the composer yet? 
And he said, oh, well, no, I why

174
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,240
do you ask? 
I said, well, I write songs. 

175
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,480
You see music and lyrics. 
I don't want to poach on some 

176
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,680
other composer's territory, but 
I'll play you some of my songs 

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00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,080
when you come over this 
afternoon to audition me. 

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00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,080
And I did, and we're keeping 
this short. 

179
00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:04,320
That led to Dick's dropping off 
a script of this concoction of 

180
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:09,880
his, which he called A Night in 
the Ukraine, based on a Wanak 

181
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:16,360
play by Chekhov or The Bear. 
And I knew the Bear, of course. 

182
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,240
I thought it was a brilliant 
idea and all the jokes were in 

183
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,000
the style of the Marx Brothers, 
but they were all original. 

184
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,840
And that became a proper Wanak 
musical with five songs. 

185
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,120
I couldn't do much about Chico 
as a performer, but at that 

186
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:45,400
point Dick then gave me a tape 
of Marx Brothers songs, and I 

187
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,840
went all around London every 
time there was a Marx Brothers 

188
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:55,040
movie and watched Chico intently
to see what he was doing on the 

189
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,760
piano. 
And I would go home and practice

190
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:02,680
it. 
Dick handed the script of this 

191
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:09,640
one up musical to an agent and 
small time producer to do as a 

192
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:16,920
lunchtime show that the agent 
joined forces with a woman 

193
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:23,600
called Buddy Dalton and they 
took a lease on a theatre up at 

194
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:30,720
New End in Hampstead which used 
to be a morgue and they wanted 

195
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,960
to make their first production, 
which would be a full scale 

196
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,440
evening thing. 
Our show and Dick and I phoned 

197
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:43,000
each other in a panic. 
We only have one act, what are 

198
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,600
we going to do? 
And Dick came up with this 

199
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:52,240
brilliant idea of using all the 
actors who would be playing Marx

200
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:57,280
Brothers characters in Act Two 
and out of Ukraine to 

201
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:04,280
impersonate Hollywood characters
in AT 1, which he decided, in 

202
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,840
the spirit of the titles of Marx
Brothers movies, to call it a 

203
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,880
day in Hollywood as opposed to, 
say, a day of the races. 

204
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,080
So the show became a day in 
Hollywood, a night in the 

205
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,600
Ukraine, a double feature. 
I imagined that the Marx 

206
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,080
Brothers were leaning over my 
shoulder and being as difficult 

207
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,840
as they could. 
B that it might really kind of 

208
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,960
stretch me. 
And so I wrote this, this 

209
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,760
strange show, which is an 
original Marx Brothers show. 

210
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,720
I imagined that that it was 
maybe made in 1936, because that

211
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,480
was that was the year when they 
didn't make a picture. 

212
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,480
In 35 they made Night of the 
Opera, In 37 they made Day at 

213
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,880
the Races. 
A Night in the Ukraine is what 

214
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,480
they did in 1936, so now it can 
be told. 

215
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,520
So this is the missing link. 
It is Harper was the missing 

216
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,880
link, actually. 
We wrote all sorts of new songs,

217
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,440
along with classic songs from 
the era for a day in Hollywood, 

218
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:10,800
and we now have this show which 
from the word go, was the most 

219
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,400
phenomenal success in this tiny 
theatre, which I think seated 

220
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,320
about 70 people. 
It was so successful that it 

221
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,200
transferred to the Mayfair 
Theatre in the West End, so it 

222
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:34,560
went from New End to West End. 
And then I noticed a little item

223
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:40,160
in the Evening Standard saying 
that there was a producer from 

224
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:47,880
Broadway who was in town looking
for properties to take back to 

225
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,360
New York. 
So I said to Dick, look, we've 

226
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,200
got to go down and grab hold of 
him at this Savoy Hotel, which 

227
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,840
we concluded is where he must be
staying. 

228
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,680
We went down, and I left a note 
for him. 

229
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,440
And the next morning, my phone 
rang at the ungodly hour about 

230
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,680
8:30. 
Hello, this is Alexander H 

231
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,960
Cohen. 
I'd love to come and see your 

232
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,640
show. 
Can I come tonight? 

233
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,560
And can I bring Peter Cook and 
Dudley Moore? 

234
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:29,240
Well, they came. 
The show was a riot, and Alex 

235
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:35,480
Cohen said call me Alex, I love 
your show and I want to do it on

236
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,840
Broadway. 
And it was like a moment out of 

237
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,840
the kind of things we were 
almost satirizing in a day in 

238
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,960
Hollywood. 
And from then on, we were geared

239
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,960
to going to America and having 
the show down there. 

240
00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:00,840
But I was the only actor who 
would be in the show playing the

241
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:07,280
equivalent of Chico, because at 
times I'd be playing my own 

242
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,560
music on the piano. 
And so I wouldn't be depriving 

243
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:19,319
an American actor of a job 
because it was my own music. 

244
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,880
But the other actors were not 
given permission to come over. 

245
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:30,000
So I had the full Broadway 
experience, and actually one of 

246
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:35,040
our numbers was called during 
the production code, which Dick 

247
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:44,360
and I designed as a version of 
the Hollywood censorship Hays 

248
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,760
code. 
But done as a tap dance by the 

249
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,520
whole company. 
And so I was part of that. 

250
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:57,400
And because I actually could tap
dance, I actually can claim to 

251
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,600
having tap danced on Broadway. 
No approval shall be given to 

252
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:06,960
the following words or phrases. 
Alley, cat applied to a woman. 

253
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,640
Tomcat applied to a man. 
Broad applied to a woman. 

254
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,040
Tart. 
Applied to a woman. 

255
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,600
Tart apply to a woman. 
Chippy apply to a woman. 

256
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,200
Madam apply to prostitution. 
Goose. 

257
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,760
In a vulgar sense, you can't say
in your hat. 

258
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,320
You can't say hold your hat. 
You can't say nuts. 

259
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,000
You can't say nuts except when. 
Needy. 

260
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,920
Grady. 
I've been in every single 

261
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:44,640
incarnation of Jane Hollywood, 
united in Ukraine and even just 

262
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,960
a knight in Ukraine on its own, 
when Dirk much later, produced 

263
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,440
and directed a wonderful version
for radio four of a knight in 

264
00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:01,440
Ukraine, using all the actors 
who had been in flywheel, 

265
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,000
shyster and flywheel. 
So that brings us full circle, I

266
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,000
hope. 
Can I can I just say, Frank, I 

267
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,480
was worried you were going to be
reticent. 

268
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:18,840
And also, and also listeners who
are used to you as Ravelli in in

269
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,280
the Flywheel series. 
They'll be surprised to hear 

270
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,120
you've got such a refined 
speaking voice. 

271
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:29,200
Well, I should add to that, that
in New York, a lot of 

272
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,920
celebrities used to come 
backstage, including Dick 

273
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,920
Cavett. 
And as a result, the Groucho of 

274
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:45,440
New York, who was David Garrison
and I appeared on the Dick 

275
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:53,040
Cavett Show performing the first
meeting scene between Groucho 

276
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,400
and Chico. 
And we did it in full costume 

277
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,120
and make up. 
And I didn't expect Dick Cavett.

278
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,480
Then to turn up and interview 
us, which he did. 

279
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:15,200
So I then was speaking in this 
frightfully British accent, and 

280
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,280
you could hear the audience give
a little gasp and a sort of a 

281
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:24,120
titter at the contrast between 
what I've just been doing, this 

282
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:30,120
Chico and this unlikely accent 
that I was actually talking to. 

283
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,200
Did you? 
Did you in fact, they'll go to 

284
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,880
the films over and over and 
over? 

285
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,920
Or did you have the image in 
your head to begin with? 

286
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:37,640
When did you? 
When I. 

287
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,200
Knew that I was going to play 
Chico, which was back in London.

288
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,680
I went to see about 8 Marx 
Brothers movies in a row to see 

289
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,960
how he played and get the 
character and all that kind of 

290
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,000
thing, and I just went to 
different cinemas all around at 

291
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,360
2:00 in the morning and things 
like that, just to see what it 

292
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,480
was like to get the character. 
You had seen them before, of 

293
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,160
course. 
I mean, I had, but I didn't have

294
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,520
an. 
Enormous memory of them, really.

295
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,920
You weren't a Marks Brothers 
freak? 

296
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,480
Not particularly. 
I've since become one, I think. 

297
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,400
Yeah. 
OK, so Derek, let's bring, let's

298
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,120
bring you in Dirk. 
So obviously you know the as the

299
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:16,440
man who directed the the BBC 
Flywheel adaptation and you kind

300
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,160
of marshalled the madness. 
Were the Marx Brothers a big 

301
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,320
thing for you before the series 
came along, or or not? 

302
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,280
Yeah, very much so. 
I grew up in the 60s where 

303
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,080
Sunday afternoons on BBC where 
the only one BBC channel when 

304
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,760
had a they called Film Matinee. 
And they were always classic 

305
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,480
black and white films from 
Hollywood. 

306
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,000
So you'd get your Errol Flynn's 
and your Betty Davis's and what 

307
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,520
have you. 
And of course, you'd have the 

308
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,560
Marx Brothers. 
And I think, you know, I was 

309
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,160
probably 8 or 9 and just fell in
love with him. 

310
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,040
You know, like most children, 
Harpo was my gateway drug. 

311
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,760
And then of course, you know, as
I grew older I began to 

312
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:08,400
appreciate the word play and the
and the the hidden messages. 

313
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,480
You know, as Frank was saying, 
sticking it to the man, all of 

314
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,400
that. 
So by the time when I was about 

315
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:21,000
15 or 16 in the early 70s at 
school, Monty Python was on and 

316
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,920
we were incredibly motivated by 
Python And we used to make 

317
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,280
films. 
We all those historical films 

318
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,320
that Python would do, we went 
out with this with this with an 

319
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,800
8 mil camera and we did a 20 
minute epic about the Vikings 

320
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:42,840
invading comedy I should add and
we filmed that all my S downs in

321
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,840
Sussex with everybody dressed up
in hand me downs and old 

322
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,960
curtains and dustbin lids for 
Shields and things wooden 

323
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,840
swords. 
But and we were trying to think 

324
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,080
of follow-ups and one of the 
follow-ups we were going to do 

325
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,200
was going to be a Marx Brothers 
film And somewhere I still have 

326
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,880
the the attempt to the script we
began but of course some O and A

327
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,120
levels as they were then got in 
the way. 

328
00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,640
So I mean, obviously I was also 
very much into the Goon Show, 

329
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,080
but in in picture terms, the 
Marx Brothers were, you know, 

330
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:20,000
equally important to me. 
And yeah, so obviously, yeah, 

331
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,920
when the chance came to actually
do something, jumped in with 

332
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,720
both feet. 
So Flywheel, Shyster and 

333
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,440
Flywheel was a series from the 
early 1930s for radio. 

334
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,000
Yes, yes, it was it. 
It was a radio series and at the

335
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:40,120
time the recordings were lost, 
although in fact you know there 

336
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000
there some, quite a few have 
been found if not all. 

337
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,800
And it was it was Nat Peron and 
Arthur Sheikman who were The Who

338
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,640
were the named writers of the 
show that went out in 1932. 

339
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:57,800
And the thing had been thought 
lost. 

340
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:05,160
And then a a a writer called 
Michael Barson found them in in 

341
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,560
the Library of Congress in New 
York, found the scripts which 

342
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,280
had lapsed into out of 
copyright, and he published them

343
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,040
in the late 80s. 
I think they were published in 

344
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,680
the States before they came out 
over here. 

345
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,760
But it was it. 
There was an article, there was 

346
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,200
an item on the Today programme 
on BBC with the news programme 

347
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,680
about it, and Mark Brisenden, 
the writer who adapted the 

348
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,320
scripts. 
And I sort of, you know, kind of

349
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,160
caught it almost at the same 
time. 

350
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:43,760
And it was, it was a no brainer 
for us to take it to our bosses 

351
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,720
in BBC Radio Light 
Entertainment. 

352
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,760
I was producing there and Mark 
was on one of the writers in the

353
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,520
in the writers room and he'd all
we'd already done stuff 

354
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,160
together. 
We'd done a thing called Death 

355
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,880
Rides the Airwaves, which was a 
kind of pastiche Cryptkeeper 

356
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,720
thing, which we did on a 
programme on Radio 2 called 

357
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,760
Peter Dixon's Nightcap, which 
was a lot of wonderfully fun 

358
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,280
pastiche Hollywood stuff. 
So, you know, we were both 

359
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,400
interested in that stuff and we 
both, you know, loved that sense

360
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,720
of humour and we were 
commissioned to, you know, to to

361
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,040
make a pilot. 
And yeah, that was, that was the

362
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:27,440
the genesis of Flywheel was 
being given a pilot and then it 

363
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,560
was a case of finding the cast. 
And all I could think of doing 

364
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,240
because Hollywood, I'd seen 
Hollywood. 

365
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:40,400
Ukraine, when I was a student, 
was to contact Dick Vosborough, 

366
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,920
who'd I I'd already been in 
touch with because I was also 

367
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,360
doing DC Comics Superman stuff 
on the radio at that point. 

368
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,880
And Dick Vosborough was one of 
the, as a child, as a boy, went 

369
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,520
to the studio where they were 
broadcasting the original 

370
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,120
Superman radio series in the 
1940s. 

371
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,080
So we'd already sort of struck 
up a friendship so that the the 

372
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,840
Marx Brothers thing from a 
completely different angle. 

373
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,120
The first person I would ring is
Dick, because no one knew more 

374
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:14,720
about, you know, how to put the 
Marx Brothers back on stage than

375
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,960
Dick. 
And through Dick, of course, I 

376
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,440
got the recommendations for 
Frank and and for Michael who 

377
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,440
had played Groucho in Edinburgh 
only, you know a short time 

378
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,200
before and and and that's, that 
was how sort of the team got 

379
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,400
together. 
There's a man. 

380
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,400
Out here wants to talk to you 
about a job. 

381
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,680
Tell him I'll take it, but I 
won't work for less than $20 a 

382
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,680
week. 
No, he wants a job here. 

383
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:44,720
Oh. 
He wants a job. 

384
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,240
Oh, I think I can put him to 
work. 

385
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,400
Oh, I don't want to work. 
I just want a job. 

386
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,320
How about? 
How about references? 

387
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,560
Ah, that's all right. 
You don't need no references. 

388
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,520
I like your face. 
And I like your face. 

389
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,560
If it is a face, say you look 
exactly like a fellow I used to 

390
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,400
know by the name of Emmanuel 
Ravelli. 

391
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,960
Are you his brother? 
I am Emmanuel Ravelli. 

392
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,520
You're Emmanuel Ravelli. 
I'm Emmanuel Ravelli. 

393
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,320
No wonder you look like him, but
I still insist there's a 

394
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,000
resemblance. 
He thinks I look alike. 

395
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:21,240
Well, if you do, it's a tough 
break for both of you. 

396
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,200
Hey, we know speak about money. 
That suits me fine. 

397
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,320
If you promise not to say 
anything about it, I won't 

398
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
mention it either all. 
Right, but I got to have more 

399
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,160
money. 
I'll tell you what I'll do. 

400
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,640
I'll give you $6 a week and you 
can bring your own lunches. 

401
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,960
Well, I don't know. 
I'll go even further than that. 

402
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,400
I'll give you $6 a week and you 
can bring lunch for me too. 

403
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,880
Oh. 
God, I can't live on $6 a week. 

404
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240
You can't live on $6 a week. 
That'll make me very happy 

405
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,880
you're hired. 
You weren't just adapting the 

406
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,000
scripts as it were verbatim, you
would filleting bits from 

407
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,280
different scripts. 
Is that what? 

408
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,040
Yeah, that was Mark, You know, 
Mark, very skillfully the, the, 

409
00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,640
the problem was that we had a 28
1/2 minute slot to fill and the 

410
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,800
original scripts were written to
fill an American half hour slot,

411
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,640
which would have about 5 to 8 
minutes worth of commercials in 

412
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,920
it and promotional 
announcements. 

413
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,960
So the original scripts even if 
they could just be used straight

414
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,640
off and and they did need 
massaging and and Mark did 

415
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,680
skillfully do that but also they
needed extending. 

416
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:34,440
And So what he did was was to 
cannibalize scripts which were 

417
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,440
you know sort of textually a bit
less cohesive or plot wise a bit

418
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:46,240
less cohesive and and very 
skillfully then graft into core 

419
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,320
scripts that were were strong 
with strong plots, sequences and

420
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,400
so on. 
And he also, you know wrote some

421
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,960
original stuff. 
He's himself. 

422
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,520
We there were a couple of 
episodes. 

423
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,560
There was a one setter in a 
Chicago newspaper and there was 

424
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,760
another Christmas one, which 
were pretty much all marks but 

425
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:09,160
the of the original scripts of 
the three series of 18 shows, 16

426
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:17,400
of them were these sort of 
composite scripts which which 

427
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,840
worked very well for for the 
pilot. 

428
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,720
We had a conversation about what
to do because I thought we 

429
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,800
should play it safe. 
I was desperate we should get a 

430
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,920
series. 
So we actually went for a script

431
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,240
which was the, in essence, the 
Animal Crackers script, the 

432
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,360
stolen painting, the stolen 
Rembrandt sort of story which 

433
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,720
was familiar to people. 
And it it seemed to me that if 

434
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,560
that flew in an audience 
situation, then anything else we

435
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,440
did would, you know, stand a 
chance of being heard. 

436
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:57,720
So Mark adapted that one and 
what I wanted to do, and this is

437
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,320
where Michael and Frank were, 
were great. 

438
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,640
They were kind of wonderfully 
accomplices to this. 

439
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,480
I wanted to put on an actual 
show, so I got David Thurman as 

440
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,000
our musical director. 
David I was working with on the 

441
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,400
news headlines where he was 
pianist to assemble a 14 piece 

442
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,520
band, which is was pretty 
unheard of at the time, let 

443
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,200
alone now. 
So we had a 14 piece band on 

444
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:31,400
stage and we also were all 
dressed the the the band and I 

445
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,120
and and anyone on stage was 
dressed up in in tuxedos in 

446
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,320
evening clothes and Michael and 
Frank were actually in costume 

447
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,040
and make up as as Groucho and 
Chico or as Flywheel and Ravelli

448
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,920
and that worked very well and 
and in fact it worked so well 

449
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,240
that down the line we didn't 
have a Harpo because there was 

450
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,200
no Harpo written into a radio 
show because there was no 

451
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,240
obviously no. 
Audio medium radio, isn't it? 

452
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,240
Yes, bit of that, bit of that. 
However, then we started 

453
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,480
dressing our sound effects 
studio manager who did live 

454
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,920
effects on stage in the in the 
in the trench coat and the top 

455
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,640
hat and the wig. 
So we did have a Harpo on stage 

456
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,720
and as my wife always would say 
she would come to the show. 

457
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,240
She said it was the best 3 
evenings entertainment ever in 

458
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,400
London because you've got a full
Marx Brothers show and also the 

459
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,760
only radio show I think the BBC 
had with a wardrobe and make up 

460
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:37,240
department. 
Michael, you know, listening 

461
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,880
back to the shows, a lot of the 
time there's knowing nods to the

462
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,360
audience. 
There's a lot of Ed libbing, 

463
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,120
there's a lot of breaking the 
4th wall. 

464
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,760
There's there's a lot of 
dropping in contemporary 

465
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,320
references and acknowledging 
that it's a radio show that 

466
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,840
you're appearing in. 
Was that encouraged or was that 

467
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,960
something that you, you know, 
was that something that you 

468
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,040
introduced or was that something
that you encouraged, Dirk or or 

469
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,120
how did that come about? 
I I no, it was Dirk. 

470
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,120
It's Dirk. 
I'm not putting the blame on 

471
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,720
Dirk, but Dirk. 
Dirk encouraged me to do that. 

472
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,840
And he said, look, Groucho would
have done that and he said just 

473
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,880
do it. 
If they don't work, I'll take 

474
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,920
them out. 
And that's what happened. 

475
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,800
And and so when See, Spike was 
one of my gods because I grew up

476
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,680
with. 
I was doing impersonations as a 

477
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,920
kid, but of course I did all the
goons, you know, I was listening

478
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,320
to them first time round, you've
got to remember that. 

479
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,200
So I was doing all of them. 
Then it'd be before my voice 

480
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,640
broke. 
I was doing them and there was 

481
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,600
much better for Mini Banister. 
Blue bottle and. 

482
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,160
I I got, I got worried when I 
knew Spike was going to be in it

483
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,040
because I thought, well, maybe I
can't, he won't like it if I had

484
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Lib. 
And because Derka told me how 

485
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,600
much he wanted, he'd always 
wanted to work with Groucho. 

486
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,600
He never got a chance. 
And I thought, well, if he was 

487
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,800
working with Groucho he would 
have expected Groucho to ad Lib.

488
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,840
And then I'm sitting there the 
night before thinking I wish 

489
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,760
there was some way I could make 
reference to Spike in the script

490
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,760
without it being totally out of 
period or anything. 

491
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,720
And then please correct me if 
I'm wrong, but I I'm under the 

492
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,080
impression that they've got the 
name of the goons from the 

493
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,920
Popeye cartoon Goon Island. 
Is that right? 

494
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:38,040
Yeah, and my dad used to tell me
the stories of films when he 

495
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,680
wasn't taking me to the cinema, 
which he did all the time. 

496
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,480
He was always telling me the 
stories of the films he'd seen 

497
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,360
as a kid that he loved and if 
they have one, liners in good, 

498
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,400
good jokes. 
And he saw this film called 

499
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:58,280
Whispering Ghosts which was a a 
fox attempt to emulate the 

500
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,400
success of the two Bob Hopes, 
you know The Cat in the Canary 

501
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
and Ghost Breakers. 
And they were trying to make a 

502
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,000
star, unsuccessfully at the time
of Milton Bow. 

503
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,520
So they made this film called 
Whispering Ghosts and he loved a

504
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,360
line from it where he was going 
along and there was this sort of

505
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,639
incredibly ugly Crone at the end
of this corridor. 

506
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,920
And Milton Bell said, well if it
isn't little blue creep in a 

507
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,800
Rallis blue goon. 
And I thought, wouldn't it be 

508
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,320
great if I can work that in 
because it's in period and I get

509
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,480
gooning. 
Of course I didn't tell Spike so

510
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:45,760
Spike not being physically very 
well was sitting on a a very 

511
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,920
high stall for for his lines. 
And I, I, I I started to come in

512
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,880
with that. 
And of course Spike, not knowing

513
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,280
I was going to do that, cut me 
off that I thought, oh that was 

514
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,720
that's a shame. 
Oh, never mind. 

515
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,600
Carry on. 
There was. 

516
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,080
I don't know why. 
There was a quiet point and I 

517
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:10,040
felt this hand tugging at my 
sleeve and when I it was Spike 

518
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,840
and he said I killed your Milton
Bowl. 

519
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:22,120
I killed your Milton bowl. 
So at least I was so chuffed. 

520
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,240
I'm shame I didn't get it out. 
But the point is he knew it 

521
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,720
straight away. 
So I was very pleased about 

522
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,120
that. 
Can I just say something about 

523
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:38,200
Michael's ad libs, which is that
it became clear on the pilot 

524
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,840
recording, you know that that 
Mike and Frank at times would be

525
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:49,800
minded to do something in the 
moment because of the way the 

526
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,800
show was going. 
And and Mike came up with 

527
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,240
something and the audience just 
fell about and it was so Groucho

528
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:59,480
esque. 
It was quite clear that, you 

529
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,200
know, he was really in the zone 
during the recording. 

530
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,640
And I think that was the point 
at which afterwards, you know 

531
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,640
when we knew we had a series and
we talked about it, I said to 

532
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,400
Michael, look if you if you 
think you've got a good one and 

533
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,360
to Frank if you think you've got
a good one, go for it. 

534
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:24,760
And they did And and the thing 
I, I, I said to Mark was 

535
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,720
concerned about that, but I said
look The thing is we can't you 

536
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,840
know already you know these have
been adapted these you know we 

537
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,440
these are not the shows as 
originally broadcast. 

538
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:41,080
It's not 1932 and we we don't 
want it sort of preserved. 

539
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,600
I I I actually thought of 
Spike's head Under that Dome on 

540
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,600
that album cover when I said it.
This is. 

541
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,560
Milligan preserved, yeah. 
Yeah, Milligan preserved. 

542
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,000
You know this is not, it's not 
in aspect, it's not pickled it's

543
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,080
it's got to be alive. 
It's got to be happening now. 

544
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,800
And and the thing was also 
Michael was so good at it and 

545
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,280
the one that I always tell I I 
always quote this when we're 

546
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,120
talking about Flywheel was the 
one where flywheel and Ravelli 

547
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,040
it's the one about farm relief. 
It's the one that won us a a 

548
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,040
prize actually New York 
Festival's medal and and 

549
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,680
flywheel and Ravelli are jump 
over a a fence on a farm and end

550
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,760
up in a pigsty and in order to 
to pay this you know pay this 

551
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,160
off in sound. 
I got the rest of the cast, 

552
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,880
which was the late Vincent 
Marzello, bless him, Lorelai 

553
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,920
King, who played all the ladies,
and Graham Hodley, who were our 

554
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,440
sort of core team, who we should
talk about a little bit more, 

555
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,960
came round and also the 
orchestra joined in and they 

556
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,280
jump into the pigsty and 
everybody comes around the mic 

557
00:37:52,280 --> 00:38:03,800
go. 
I asked you folks two nice 

558
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,720
Jewish boys, and we're 
surrounded by Ham. 

559
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,360
It worked because of course, you
know the vision with all the 

560
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,880
actors moving in saying they 
were surrounded by ham and it 

561
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,920
just it just, yeah, the whole 
the Paris studio where we 

562
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,640
recorded these. 
So sadly, no longer. 

563
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:32,400
BBC Studio just erupted and 
afterwards and Michael, I I I'm 

564
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,640
certain this is true but correct
me if I'm wrong. 

565
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,280
You had forgotten you did it and
I and I said to you afterwards 

566
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,160
that that that ham joke. 
What ham joke? 

567
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,680
He said and then I explained it 
to him and and I think that was 

568
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,240
the thing about Michael. 
It was almost like a sort of 

569
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,000
Petit Mal kind of thing for 
Michael. 

570
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,600
He he he was so channelling that
he absolutely forgotten he'd 

571
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,600
done it. 
He he was so in the zone and it 

572
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,200
was uncanny because Bruce Frank 
on Mike sounded exactly like 

573
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,600
Chico. 
It really was, you know, 

574
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,280
astonishing and and physically 
too, boys, when you put the 

575
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,840
stuff on, the grease paint and 
the wigs and what have you, you 

576
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,840
know, it was a wonderful thing. 
The one, the one. 

577
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,400
The one I remember from 
listening to it in the In the 

578
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,760
night in the early 90s, there's 
AI think it's the department 

579
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,760
store episode. 
Yeah. 

580
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,200
And I think Ravelli is talking 
about something being a close 

581
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,880
shave, hey? 
Wash, wash. 

582
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,400
Why is it Ravelli? 
Oh boy, what a close shave. 

583
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:37,240
A. 
Close shave What? 

584
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,040
Happened nothing. 
I just used the very sharp 

585
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,560
razor. 
And now he's bought the company.

586
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:51,120
That won't go in. 
It's out of period. 

587
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:58,760
Yeah, evidently it did. 
Maybe it was a slow week. 

588
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,920
Just remember that's stuck in my
head for some reason. 

589
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,680
Yes. 
Yeah. 20 years, yes. 

590
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,040
Yeah. 
Yeah, of course it wouldn't. 

591
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,320
It would go for nothing now 
because nobody remembers the ads

592
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,400
at all. 
No. 

593
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:13,960
That is funny. 
I I was. 

594
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,280
It's interesting what you say 
about, you said about, you know,

595
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,000
the show's got to be live, it's 
got to be happening now, it's 

596
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,120
got to be vibrant, I suppose. 
And with a friend of mine, we 

597
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,640
were listening to a couple of 
fragments of the original 

598
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,920
Flywheel series from, you know, 
the 30s. 

599
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,040
My friend who's a, who's a huge 
fan of of the show of of your 

600
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,560
show, he, he was pointing out 
the sort of the, I suppose you'd

601
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,880
call it, the atmospheric 
differences between the original

602
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,480
Flywheel series and your 
version. 

603
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,680
Now obviously factor in the age 
of the original series and the 

604
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,080
recording quality of the time 
and all that sort of thing, but 

605
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:56,000
it's it's true you know the 
original series with Groucho 

606
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,840
Marx and Chico, it was more 
sedate and the audience sounded 

607
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,800
like it was you know, situated 
about half a mile from the 

608
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,080
performers. 
And I know it was 1932 and all 

609
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,480
radio was probably like that 
then. 

610
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,280
But you guys hadn't heard at 
that point, you hadn't heard the

611
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,920
original Flywheel series because
it they only discovered the 

612
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,760
episodes four or five years 
after the end of your series. 

613
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,440
So. 
So you you were kind of, I guess

614
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,760
you were kind of just you were 
having to sort of imagine what 

615
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,200
the original series would have 
been like. 

616
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,360
Obviously you had the scripts to
go by, but the 90s adaptations, 

617
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,240
they just they they were 
performed with a lot more oomph 

618
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:38,000
and gusto, projecting to the 
gods almost, if you like. 

619
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,560
And so, Dirk, was that just your
your trademark style or or were 

620
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,360
you trying desperately to 
imagine what the original series

621
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,160
sounded like? 
Actually, I did. 

622
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:52,800
Somebody had found an acetate, 
just a bit of one, about about 5

623
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,200
minutes worth, which I was sent 
on cassettes. 

624
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:00,680
So I had heard some and it 
sounded what it sounded like to 

625
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:06,760
me was that Groucho and Chico 
were in there were turning up 

626
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,440
and doing the script in order to
get the paycheck. 

627
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:16,400
They weren't there for the in 
any way for the for the joy of 

628
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,120
of performing the roles for 
them. 

629
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,360
It was. 
It was a way to make a fast and 

630
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:28,480
easy buck, which over the years 
in in working in this sound 

631
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,320
medium, I found certain people 
do think that it's actually easy

632
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,320
to come in and and do it until 
they actually have to. 

633
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,000
And then they realise how hard 
it is and how hard Mike and 

634
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,840
Michael and Frank worked, you 
know, in the original. 

635
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,400
So I I I thought it was lacking 
in energy. 

636
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,600
I thought it was lacking in 
motivation. 

637
00:42:50,960 --> 00:43:01,880
And interestingly, when after 
we'd done a series, I think Nat 

638
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,640
Perrin, who was in his 90s by 
then got his, you know, had 

639
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,400
heard it. 
And he was very, very 

640
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,160
complimentary about how it 
sounded. 

641
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,000
Not just how the boys sounded 
and the work that Mark had done 

642
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,360
on the scripts, but the fact 
that it just he felt that it 

643
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,920
actually it sounded better than 
in the originals. 

644
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,680
And Mark went to see him and and
I believe that Nat said that to 

645
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,280
him. 
And you know that's a that's a 

646
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,560
hell of a compliment from 
someone who was in the business 

647
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,560
at a time when it was as 
cutthroat as it could be and 

648
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,880
work with the Marx Brothers who 
were very demanding to work for.

649
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:45,960
So I don't mind at all if we are
sort of if we still stand up 

650
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,680
against the originals because we
put more energy and love into it

651
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,640
than the original Marx Brothers 
did. 

652
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,720
Because I think it's almost 
inevitable that we would, 

653
00:43:55,720 --> 00:44:02,040
because for us it was a it was 
homage and and we weren't there 

654
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,560
to earn the money. 
In fact, there wasn't much money

655
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,120
to be earned. 
I certainly don't see any repeat

656
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,560
fees and I know what's there for
Mark and and Michael and Frank 

657
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,520
isn't much. 
But what we did have was the I 

658
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,960
will never, ever forget walking 
down to the Paris studio on a 

659
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,160
Sunday to record 2 flywheel 
Shire strip flywheels. 

660
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,960
I felt the luckiest person in 
the world. 

661
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,360
The only thing that would have 
been the only comparable things 

662
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,040
we're doing, the news headlines 
with Roy June and Chris on a 

663
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,720
Thursday, which I was doing at 
the same time, and if I'd ever 

664
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:43,720
been lucky enough to do a goon 
show, those are the only times I

665
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:46,560
can say we have been equal to 
it. 

666
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:54,280
At some stage, by the way, I 
also met Nat Heron, who I know 

667
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,360
loved Flywheel. 
Churchill Flywheel. 

668
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:05,720
But on the first night in New 
York of a day in Hollywood, 

669
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:10,280
announced in Ukraine, just 
before the curtain went up, they

670
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,560
told me that Chico's daughter 
Maxine was in the audience. 

671
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:24,480
Well, I never painted and shunk 
and I went on for my entrance in

672
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,880
a day in Hollywood. 
We were all dressed as ushers in

673
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,120
the lobby of Brahman's Chinese 
Theatre and wearing white 

674
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,640
gloves. 
And I caught my finger in the 

675
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,640
revolving door, which was 
supposed to lead from the 

676
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,600
interior of the cinema into the 
lobby. 

677
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,040
And we were performing in the 
lobby, so to speak. 

678
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,000
That was a set. 
And I caught my finger in the 

679
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,040
door and there was blood on my 
finger. 

680
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,400
And as soon as I'd done my 
little bit of introductory 

681
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,080
singing, I went over to the 
piano and sat down and instantly

682
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:09,720
smeared blood all over the keys 
of the piano and had to be sort 

683
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:13,880
of mopped up and given new 
gloves once I came off. 

684
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:21,400
But at the end of the show I was
in my dressing room, still in my

685
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,640
costume and make up. 
And I I heard a cough at the 

686
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:33,160
door and I looked up and there 
was a a short woman with black 

687
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:38,040
hair and sort of bangs, a kind 
of a fringe and cat's eye 

688
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:45,520
glasses and a walking stick. 
And she said Daddy, and it was 

689
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:51,360
Maxine. 
And we became really close 

690
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,520
friends after that. 
And I used to see her offering 

691
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,200
in New York and go to parties at
her place. 

692
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,880
Absolutely lovely. 
And every time I went back to 

693
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,760
New York, I would always visit 
her. 

694
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:10,680
Eventually she died. 
So in a way, I had a lot of 

695
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:18,520
confidence in being Chico when I
joined Flywheel, Shatra and 

696
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,760
Flywheel. 
But here's the thing. 

697
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:31,760
In those shows and the wonderful
Paris Studio, they had all these

698
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:38,080
classic pictures along the 
walls, including scenes and 

699
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,520
actors from things like Take It 
From Here. 

700
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,880
And all those shows always used 
to have a song somewhere in the 

701
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:57,680
middle, and it was logical for 
our show to add a song in the 

702
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,400
middle. 
And there were lots of Groucho 

703
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,560
songs, but I felt that Chico 
would be underserved by simply 

704
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:14,360
doing a Chico piano solo, which 
would mean mean nothing to a 

705
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,400
listening audience. 
It might have meant something to

706
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,080
the live audience we had in the 
studio. 

707
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:30,120
So I suggested that instead of 
my doing a Chico piano solo, I 

708
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:37,120
do Chico song every week 
alternating with Groucho's. 

709
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,680
So one week Groucho would do one
of the well known ones and I 

710
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:48,560
would do a song that is the kind
of song Chico might have done. 

711
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:55,680
And the very first one was a 
number from the Coconuts. 

712
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,760
And it was a number that a 
caller number called the Monkey 

713
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:08,880
Doodle Doo. 
Yes, written by the great Irving

714
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,520
Berlin. 
Let me take you by the hand over

715
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:19,080
to the Jungle Band. 
If you're too old for dancing, 

716
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:27,280
get yourself a monkey gland and 
then let's. 

717
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,400
Go my little. 
Diary. 

718
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:51,720
Here's the. 
And I suggested that as an 

719
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:56,160
obvious Chico solo. 
And then I always used to, 

720
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:03,480
although Mark came up with 
wonderful extra puns and things 

721
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:10,520
for Chicko because of Dick's 
knowledge of the Marx Brothers 

722
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,640
and his brilliance at comedy 
writing and his expertise, I 

723
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,240
always used to take the scripts 
when I got them to Dick and we'd

724
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:24,000
go through them together to see 
if there's anything we could do.

725
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:32,120
And Dick and I had a great time 
trying to look for songs that 

726
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,040
would be the kind of quirky 
things that Chico might have 

727
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,600
sung. 
One of them was My Brother Makes

728
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:46,800
the Noises for All the Talkies, 
which would, you know, isn't 

729
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,080
obvious. 
It wasn't a Marx Brothers song, 

730
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:55,000
but it was a useful one as a 
kind of reference to Harpo. 

731
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,040
So that was the kind of thing we
did. 

732
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:06,040
And the doing of the songs in 
the middle with Michael one week

733
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,480
and me the next. 
And wonderful arrangements, by 

734
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:17,840
the way, by David Furman, added 
to the sort of live atmosphere. 

735
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:24,880
And so Dirk's desire to keep the
whole thing very much alive and 

736
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,480
not have the feeling of just 
Groucho and Chico turning up and

737
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:34,680
almost phoning in their 
performances, this all helped 

738
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:40,800
and added to that immediacy that
the show had. 

739
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,560
And and just to add for the my 
brother makes the noises for the

740
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,000
talkies. 
Because of sound effects, SM was

741
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,000
dressed as Harper. 
Of course that you know that 

742
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,480
added to the, you know the 
cohesive nature of what we were 

743
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,320
doing on stage. 
Yes. 

744
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,400
Did you guys, I want to ask you 
about the supporting cast? 

745
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,880
But did did you guys Michael and
Frank, did you offer other 

746
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,000
voices, other characters? 
No. 

747
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,560
No, we didn't need to. 
We had these wonderful people, 

748
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,760
Laurel. 
I was just brilliant. 

749
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:20,520
Vince was marvellous, doing 
several voices and Holdley, 

750
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,440
Graham, Graham who? 
Played Mr. Gruber, the tailor 

751
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,280
and the landlord. 
Yeah, Mr. Girl. 

752
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,920
He was doing a sort of 
impression of single room and 

753
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:42,320
with the Marx Brothers character
and Graham was absolutely 

754
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,040
brilliant. 
No, he's doing home and Bing. 

755
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,680
Herman Bing. 
Very specific. 

756
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:51,680
It was very specific who Graham 
was doing because Graham's so 

757
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,800
into old movies. 
Well, that was you. 

758
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,720
All were. 
That was the beauty of. 

759
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,160
Herman Bing. 
That he was. 

760
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:04,800
Doing I was working with Lorelei
I I met her we we this was when 

761
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,840
we did the Superman. 
The very first DC thing I did 

762
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,840
was Superman on trial and at 
that time I wasn't directing I 

763
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:18,920
was only writing it and Lorelei 
was cast as Lana Lang and and 

764
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,720
was very good in the role and 
and I really liked her for the 

765
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:25,720
role of Lois Lane I I I you know
the the the person who's playing

766
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:29,640
Lois in that was was great but 
but just I loved Lorelei had 

767
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,280
this sort of sassiness and a 
lovely actor the late Bob 

768
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,480
sessions who went on to play 
Batman in the Batmans that I did

769
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:41,560
he introduced me to her and it 
became clear she was a Swiss 

770
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:48,000
army knife of voices And you 
know as well as being sort of a 

771
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:53,280
kind of having a a certain a 
unique sort of warm sort of 

772
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,440
presence and and a very 
attractive girl you know she 

773
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,880
kind of when we were thinking of
flywheel and and obviously Miss 

774
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,720
Dimple is the first voice every 
time and flywheel shies your 

775
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:10,880
flywheel Miss Dimple speaking 
Law Offices a flywheel shies to 

776
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,280
him Flywheel Miss Dimple 
speaking. 

777
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,320
It was a no brainer to get 
Lorelai in and I I was pretty 

778
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,800
sure she could do any female 
roles. 

779
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:26,600
But when we did the, the first 
pilot, we did the pilot there, 

780
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:31,080
there was the, you know, the, 
the, the Margaret DuMont 

781
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:35,560
character in it. 
And I asked her, I, I, I did 

782
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,680
have conversations on the phone,
I think with all three of you, 

783
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,720
you know, before we got into it.
And I said, you know, can you do

784
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:44,600
Margaret DuMont? 
And she immediately just went 

785
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,520
into DuMont. 
Oh, good morning, Mr. Flywheel. 

786
00:54:48,240 --> 00:54:49,640
Why? 
What in the world are you 

787
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,680
looking for? 
I lost my horse. 

788
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,880
He he slipped right out from 
between me. 

789
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,960
I thought, well, if she can do 
Dizzy Miss, I know she can do 

790
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,440
Lois Lane and Lana Lang and all 
that in DC. 

791
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,920
If she can do DuMont, if she can
do Miss Dimple and we don't need

792
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,600
anyone else really, I mean she 
can be all the women which was 

793
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,040
great because then it freed up 
enough budget for me to get 

794
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:18,080
other people in and and so our 
core team were were Lorelai, 

795
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:24,800
Vince who was kind of like the 
you know kind of the the 

796
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,200
straight man in everything which
we needed. 

797
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,320
We needed Vince to be the sort 
of Zeppo who could just handle 

798
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,520
the rather dry stuff but that 
needed handling and occasionally

799
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,560
you know he could he got a line 
in or he could play the dog Foo 

800
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,960
Foo in the dog finding the dog. 
He was a pretty good dog, 

801
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,720
actually. 
Fantastic. 

802
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,120
And Graham, who I went to 
college with Graham, we were at 

803
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,960
King Alfred's College, 
Winchester, training his 

804
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,800
teachers as drama students and 
and we were sharing a flat in 

805
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,800
South London when I first joined
the BBC. 

806
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,920
This was years later. 
I mean we we weren't sharing a 

807
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,680
flat anymore. 
But I knew how how good Graham 

808
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,360
was and how much he loved this 
sort of stuff. 

809
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:14,760
I'll take 10% off every ticket's
old until he gets paid off. 

810
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,960
So we had our, you know, Mike, 
Frank, we had Lorelei, Vince and

811
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,240
Graham as our core team. 
And in the early series we 

812
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:28,240
wouldn't get in guest artistes 
William Hawkins, Bill Hawkins, 

813
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,600
who was Paul Kins in Star Wars 
and one of the CIA guys in the 

814
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,480
first Indiana Jones film, Top 
man, Mr. Jones, top man. 

815
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:45,080
That's Bill and and and Garrick 
Hagan was in the election one he

816
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,760
played the he played the the 
sort of election official in in 

817
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:55,640
the judge flyweight what we had 
Kerry Shale who's yes superb 

818
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,760
voice artist and who still 
working with today on the 

819
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,800
Sandman as I am with Michael you
know we were getting guest stars

820
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,320
in to it. 
Can I come in with a very quick 

821
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:08,560
anecdote? 
Yeah. 

822
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,320
Yeah. 
Yeah, it's it's sort of circular

823
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,880
really. 
It's it's almost going back to 

824
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:19,280
talking about doing ad libs. 
But a couple of days ago, when 

825
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:27,120
we were recording Graham 
Garden's play and we're all all 

826
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:33,520
the actors are in the studio and
Kerry is away from us in a booth

827
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,720
behind us because he's doing the
narrator. 

828
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:43,000
He was also playing this old guy
who was having his scrotum 

829
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,760
operated on without anaesthetic.
So we're sitting there, we're 

830
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,440
all sitting in a row and Dirk 
saying, OK, Kerry, give me some 

831
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,000
screams. 
So you got about four minutes of

832
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,520
Kerry doing these amazing 
screams. 

833
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,800
Nobody screams like Kerry. 
And there was then complete 

834
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:12,240
silence and and I, I don't know 
why all I suddenly said and your

835
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:17,640
modern piece and the whole place
went about because it's all 

836
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,920
actors so they know they know 
that phrase. 

837
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,520
Yes. 
And it's like say just just, 

838
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,320
it's timing, it's timing. 
Oh God, yes. 

839
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:31,920
And one of the beauties of all 
this is, of course, is that we 

840
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:36,200
all still work together. 
And I mean, you know, 'cause 

841
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,560
Frank and Michael worked on a 
voyage. 

842
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,200
Oh yeah, some years later this 
was Stephen Baxter thing. 

843
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,920
And and you know, we were all 
doing that and and and Michael, 

844
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,440
Frank, Frank, you've had issues 
with your throat. 

845
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,000
So, you know, sadly. 
We don't. 

846
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,080
I'd still be working. 
I wish I. 

847
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,200
Yeah, I I wish you were too, 
'cause, you know can't. 

848
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:02,000
Manipulate my voice the way I or
to be able to as an actor, As a 

849
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,240
performer. 
Frank, I'm guessing you can't do

850
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,320
Chico anymore or is that is that
difficult for you? 

851
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:16,160
Hey, you know, hey boss, Hey, I 
can always. 

852
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:25,720
I can give it a try, but I'm out
of a practice and I can't do it 

853
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:32,080
the full justice. 
A justice in the court would 

854
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:38,880
decide against me. 
Yeah, well, it was, you know, 

855
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:43,520
you were doing fairly gymnastic 
exercises on your larynx when 

856
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:45,760
you did it, frankly, because 
you're speaking your natural 

857
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,400
speaking voice. 
Even before you were I'll was, 

858
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,600
was, was, was, you know, a good 
what's the word. 

859
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,000
So it's like a couple of semi 
tones away from from Chico. 

860
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,800
Yes, easily. 
Yeah, but but no, I mean you 

861
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,160
know this was these were 
friendships for life that we 

862
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:09,200
made on that show in in most 
cases and it it really was a 

863
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,360
joy. 
He's talking about the discovery

864
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,880
of long lost Marx Brothers radio
scripts in London last night. 

865
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,720
Those comedy classics were 
performed for the first time in 

866
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,600
decades. 
CN NS Peter Humi. 

867
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,960
Reports. 
It's terribly serious. 

868
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,600
It's so serious, if I don't got 
to laugh, I'll kill myself. 

869
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,920
Well, there was never the danger
that he wouldn't get a laugh. 

870
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,840
The Full House packed the BBC 
Theatre to witness the historic 

871
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,680
occasion, the first performance 
in almost 60 years of long lost 

872
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,960
Marx Brothers radio scripts. 
I'll give you $6 a week and you 

873
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,320
can bring your own lunches. 
I'll go even further than that. 

874
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,680
I'll give you $6 a week and you 
can bring lunch for me too. 

875
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,760
They're written by genuine 
original Marx Brothers writers 

876
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,120
who've written for Duck Soup and
various of their movies, and you

877
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,160
can actually see some of the 
routines they're in this series 

878
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,040
landing up later in Marks 
Fellows New Days. 

879
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,480
Well, I don't know about that 
now. 

880
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:04,880
What's the matter? 
I don't like it. 

881
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,440
The 2nd party either. 
Well, you should have come to 

882
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,200
the place Party. 
We didn't get home around 4:00 

883
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,080
in the morning. 
I was blind for three days. 

884
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,240
And and and I'm going to throw a
quick anecdote in here Tyler, 

885
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,640
because I was quite a new 
producer at this time and this 

886
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:23,640
was quite a big deal because we 
had coverage on television on 

887
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,960
the on on BBC Breakfast and and 
on, on other channels. 

888
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:32,040
And even I think CBC Canadian 
Television came over and did a 

889
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,200
bit of coverage. 
There's still stuff on YouTube 

890
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:40,600
about us doing flywheel and I 
did CNN I think it was came over

891
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,000
and they had a camera crew that 
came in and in those days the 

892
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,000
those were those sort of 
shoulder mounted cameras about 

893
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,200
the size of a, you know four 
house bricks taped together 

894
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,920
probably about the same weight. 
And there's and there's there's 

895
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,520
a guy with the camera and 
there's a guy with a boom mic 

896
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,640
you know with a curly cable up 
to the camera which had the tape

897
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:06,040
and and so on. 
And they came in to the Paris as

898
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,760
we were rehearsing and 
immediately the band stopped 

899
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:15,440
playing and and one of the lads 
in the band not not David the MD

900
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:20,760
but the the MU Rep in the band 
came down and said Dirk we're 

901
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:26,680
not being paid to to play on 
envision so for as long as that 

902
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,080
microphone is attached to that 
camera we're not picking up the 

903
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,400
instruments and and it was fair 
enough. 

904
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,600
It's totally fair enough. 
The contract did not call for 

905
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,760
them to play Envision and it 
would, you know, that's a 

906
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,800
different fee and a different 
arrangement and so on. 

907
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:47,680
So we had to disconnect the mic 
and lay it on the front row of 

908
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,720
seats where the band could see 
it while the filming was was 

909
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:52,480
done. 
Mute. 

910
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,120
So the band went back to 
playing. 

911
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,520
And it was one of those times 
where, you know, when you're 

912
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,600
you're you're you're you're 
doing the job where you suddenly

913
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,920
learn where you're you know, 
where the limits are to what you

914
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:08,440
are allowed to do. 
It was it It impressed me, you 

915
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,800
know mightily really that you 
know kind of like these things 

916
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,720
do apply and because these guys 
are working musicians and they 

917
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:17,960
should be paid for what they do.
I I totally got it. 

918
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:19,080
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

919
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,240
That was that was an interesting
moment. 

920
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,600
OK. 
So let's let's talk about Spike.

921
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,560
Am I right in thinking, Dirk, 
that it was it was during 

922
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:35,400
because you you interviewed 
Spike at length for the 1991 At 

923
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,080
last to go on show. 
Yeah. 

924
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,600
Radio documentary. 
Yeah. 

925
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,320
Was it off the back of that 
meeting that you got Spike 

926
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,400
involved with Flywheel? 
Yeah, it I actually first met 

927
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,120
Spike. 
I mean I was a Goon Show fan 

928
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:51,440
since the second I heard the 
Goon show and then actually 

929
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,240
Telegoons got me in. 
I was only you know 678 or 

930
01:03:55,240 --> 01:04:02,480
whatever it was because you know
it was funny and and so and then

931
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,680
of course I discovered the 
actual shows and then off you go

932
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:07,520
and then I've been working Radio
2. 

933
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:09,120
Before I got into light 
entertainment. 

934
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:12,800
My carefully planned route in 
included making trails for Radio

935
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,360
2 presentation. 
And while I was there we were 

936
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,440
doing children in need and then 
children in need. 

937
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,720
We would go around and find 
celebs who happened to be in the

938
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:24,000
building, grab them get them to 
record something or the other 

939
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,320
and then leave. 
Let them go in peace. 

940
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:33,120
And Spike was in. 
And so I I wrote a suggested 

941
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,640
little script and went down. 
I think he was doing Laurie 

942
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,040
Hannaford or something like 
this. 

943
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,800
And, you know, cautiously I 
approached him and said would 

944
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,320
you, would you mind, you know, 
for children? 

945
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,360
And he not at all, not at all. 
And he did this thing. 

946
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,760
Hello this is Spike Melegnor, 
the famous typing error. 

947
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,000
He is another typing error. 
Children and needs to the 

948
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,120
copyright. 
Children needs to know now 

949
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,560
properly Type that should read 
Spike Milligan and Children in 

950
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,640
Need. 
All this has nothing to do with 

951
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:07,880
the BB CS annual charity appeal.
Children in Need starting at 

952
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,280
7:00 PM on Thursday the 20th of 
November. 

953
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,480
Make no mistake, we need to 
raise as much as we can for the 

954
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,800
kids in Britain who deserve a 
decent break. 

955
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:19,600
Who is that? 
Brighton. 

956
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,240
This has nothing to do with the 
BB CS Annual charity appeal 

957
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:24,960
Children in Need. 
What's that mean? 

958
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,080
I don't understand what it 
means. 

959
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,920
It was because actually it was 
chickens in the eating that one.

960
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:31,600
Oh, come and do it again, Rita. 
Yes. 

961
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,720
Oh I oh, I thought this had been
a typing error and I read it as 

962
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:37,640
children. 
Well, it nearly. 

963
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,760
Worked all right, right? 
So, you know, I I kind of bumped

964
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,400
into him. 
And then of course, because I 

965
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:46,800
then became a comedy producer on
BBC Radio, he was occasionally 

966
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,120
in the corridor, the comedy 
corridor as they called it. 

967
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:52,320
So I would say hello and so on 
and so forth. 

968
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,160
And then for the 40th 
anniversary of the Goon Show, 

969
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,440
the chance came to do a 
documentary about the Goon Show.

970
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:03,400
And so I teamed up with Ted 
Kendall, who listeners will know

971
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:08,360
has been the key to the 
restoring a lot of the old Goon 

972
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:12,080
shows to their original, you 
know, condition in terms. 

973
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:13,360
Of genius. 
Genius. 

974
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,880
He is a genius. 
He is Ted Kendall, genius, a man

975
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:21,480
about town and a man about town 
where where the police are 

976
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:27,240
hunting him and they and I 
teamed up with Michael Poynton, 

977
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,640
the lovely Michael Poynton no 
longer with us fabulous 

978
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,880
trombonists, trombonists, 
researcher and all round good 

979
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,840
guy. 
And so it it was the team of 

980
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:42,680
three of us really, Ted, you 
know giving us the benefit of 

981
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:47,400
all his his recordings and so on
of of goon show ephemera and 

982
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,520
apocrypha. 
That really was interesting 

983
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:52,320
stuff. 
You know a rehearsal for the 

984
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,920
great Tuscan salami scandal or 
whatever it is. 

985
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,520
And I got in touch with Spike 
and we went down and Michael 

986
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:04,560
Poynton and I drove to Rye to 
interview him for this 

987
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,640
documentary. 
The whole thing was very 

988
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:09,640
memorable. 
We got there and did that the 

989
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:13,280
the Dumb Woman's lane. 
The house was down carpenters 

990
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:17,440
Meadow dumb woman's lane. 
And the house itself had a had a

991
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,000
had a had had the sign on it. 
The blind architect. 

992
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,520
Yeah. 
And Sheila answered the door. 

993
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,560
Spike's last wife. 
And got. 

994
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,720
We went in and does and Spike, 
you know, he's very friendly, 

995
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:34,600
very jolly, you know, really at 
absolute on his best form. 

996
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,480
And so where do you want me? 
So I sat him in an armchair. 

997
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:39,960
I said, well, where do you 
normally sit? 

998
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:41,680
Oh, well, this is my use of my 
chair. 

999
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:42,560
Right. 
Sit down here. 

1000
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:47,120
And I put a mic right up against
him, you know, a 4038. 

1001
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:53,400
Sorry, not a 4038. 
An SM58 on a stand right up in 

1002
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,240
his face. 
Had a little dat recorder with 

1003
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,320
me. 
They just come in. 

1004
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:03,520
This is 91 and roll tape and 
then we talked for. 

1005
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,800
I can't remember the exact 
duration, but you will know 

1006
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,320
Tyler, because I sent you the 
tape. 

1007
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,720
Well, you you. 
The recording was just over an 

1008
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,240
hour and then Spike excuses 
himself to go to the lavatory 

1009
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,040
and then it ends. 
But I gather that you had 

1010
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,640
another cup of tea. 
Yeah, Oh yes. 

1011
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,120
We definitely had another cup of
tea and I think we even had a 

1012
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:25,840
glass of wine, But the thing was
that Spike said afterwards he'd 

1013
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,640
never spoken so much about the 
Goon Show, which was very 

1014
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,920
interesting and pretty much 
everything he said that was of 

1015
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:35,880
any interest. 
We got in I I cut into the the 

1016
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:39,080
documentary because it was solid
gold. 

1017
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,800
So it was a memorable day and 
Spike was being absolutely 

1018
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:48,240
lovely. 
You know he could be prickly and

1019
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,800
I I I knew that you know there 
was always a risk he would he 

1020
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,399
would decide that he wanted to 
climb up or he'd had enough. 

1021
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,520
But we got him fined. 
I think the fact he knew that I 

1022
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:04,200
utterly adored him helped 
probably and and so we talked 

1023
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,479
about the Goon Show and you know
that was a a lovely 

1024
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,000
conversation. 
I'm sure we will have this 

1025
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:14,680
conversation about what was in 
that interview another time but 

1026
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,960
at the end of the interview he 
said something on the lines of 

1027
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:22,800
you know what, what you're doing
in that flywheel shastra, 

1028
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,680
flywheel show. 
It's just wonderful. 

1029
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:29,000
I I just, you know, it's so 
captures the spirit of it and so

1030
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:30,399
on. 
It fool me completely. 

1031
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:32,279
They're so like the original 
voices. 

1032
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:35,240
I was stunned at the duplicity 
of them. 

1033
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:39,600
And he said I'd give my right 
arm to have worked with the Marx

1034
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,600
Brothers, something like that. 
And I said, well, you don't have

1035
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,040
to give any any limbs at all. 
Why don't you come and join us 

1036
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,279
on the show? 
Come and be a guest on the show 

1037
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,560
and there was you know some 
discussion and and I said look 

1038
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:54,960
you know what, let's, let's I 
thought, right. 

1039
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,480
I'm going to follow this up 
because it would be so fantastic

1040
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:02,920
to have Spike on the show. 
And then I went on to I then 

1041
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,600
hastily went on to seeing if 
he'd considered doing the same 

1042
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,360
about the Goon shows, but 
actually with him and Harry and 

1043
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,200
and Mike Bentine, who was still 
around. 

1044
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:15,760
Which is which is which is 
another story I I won't tell you

1045
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:17,640
no. 
Well, no, you, you've told me 

1046
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:19,080
that. 
My, my cast, Peter. 

1047
01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:22,920
Yes, yes, my cast, Peter. 
Yeah, yes, that spooked me 

1048
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:27,000
enormously so. 
But we did get in touch. 

1049
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:31,640
We got in touch with Norma fans 
and we booked Spike to do the 

1050
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:36,400
show and Mark found a couple of 
scripts that really, you know, 

1051
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,560
had parts that that would work 
for him. 

1052
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:42,160
The the mayor of the the one 
with the the ghost of Craxton 

1053
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,640
Manor where he plays, the mayor 
where's the flywheel and all 

1054
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:48,880
that stuff and the other one who
was the in the other one. 

1055
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:53,360
He was a judge in it was the the
Fly by Wheel tours. 

1056
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:55,040
Fly by wheel tours. 
That was it. 

1057
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:59,280
Yes. 
And and he came to the Paris 

1058
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,720
with Pauline Scudamore who at 
the time was his biographer and 

1059
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:10,520
a sort of a man nuances and he 
came and he was on pretty good 

1060
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,360
form. 
He was a bit prickly. 

1061
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:16,600
Poor Lorelai. 
When we went in to do the tech 

1062
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,160
run, pointed out he'd left his 
mobile phone in the narrator's 

1063
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:24,120
cube that call it the Paris and 
and Spike sort of snapped her 

1064
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:30,320
head off for being for you know,
telling him something that was 

1065
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,200
perfectly bleeding obvious or 
something like that. 

1066
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:35,200
It was that was a bit 
unnecessary and I thought, OK 

1067
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,560
he's probably nervous and poor 
Lorelai was a bit upset. 

1068
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,240
So you know that that was not a 
great moment. 

1069
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:48,320
However, when we got in the room
and did the tech run before the 

1070
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:52,200
audience came in, it became 
clear that he was thoroughly 

1071
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,840
enjoying himself. 
And and I was thinking, gosh, 

1072
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,520
you know, I wonder how how long 
it is since he actually did 

1073
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:00,880
something in the Paris, you 
know, because of course the 

1074
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:05,560
goons did record in the Paris 
from time to time and then the 

1075
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:10,280
audience came in and Spike was, 
you know, we wheeled him out 

1076
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:11,880
from the wings. 
We didn't. 

1077
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,880
He walked out on his own steam. 
I'm being, I'm not being fair at

1078
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:16,800
all. 
He he walked out and he was, he 

1079
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:21,760
was very chipper by this point 
to his to his mic, which had a, 

1080
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:26,720
you know, a stall nearby in case
he wanted to perch and the show 

1081
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:31,120
went gangbusters. 
Actually, he, you know, he 

1082
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,320
thrown in. 
He was thoroughly in his 

1083
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:34,960
element. 
Come back, Rebelli. 

1084
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,320
Oh, there you are. 
I thought you'd run out on me. 

1085
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:43,640
Come back in here and shut the 
door After you Say that sheet 

1086
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:46,480
makes you look tall. 
You roam, Rebelli, haven't you? 

1087
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:48,440
Well, speak. 
Speak, man. 

1088
01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:55,760
Say something to me. 
Oh, to me. 

1089
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:00,520
To me, you fool. 
Flywheel. 

1090
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:08,480
Say something to me. 
Would you mind doing that again?

1091
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,640
Well, I put this little boot 
creep in her Alice Blue goon. 

1092
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,120
That was a Milton Berle line, 
and it didn't get a laugh when 

1093
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:24,200
he did it. 
I am dead. 

1094
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,520
Well, that's what you get for 
not taking care of yourself 

1095
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:30,760
running around in this drafty 
house with nothing but a thin 

1096
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,560
sheet over you. 
I am the spirit of Roderick 

1097
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,560
Craigston. 
Say all. 

1098
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,000
Craigston must have died 
laughing. 

1099
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:46,120
Why we Your doom is sealed. 
You're all about to join our 

1100
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,800
ancestors. 
Oh no, you're not going to get 

1101
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:52,280
me in the poor house. 
What was the? 

1102
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:55,440
I don't know unless it was a 
mortgage falling dude. 

1103
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:02,200
I go to see who dares disturb 
the tranquility of my ghostly 

1104
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,160
sphere. 
If you are not gone with the 

1105
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:18,640
time of return, you will still 
be here and dead. 

1106
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:25,600
I tell you the one thing that he
did, he was very he was very 

1107
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:27,720
good with the script, you know, 
he was very faithful to it. 

1108
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:36,160
But there was one moment he, he 
added one word to a line and it 

1109
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:40,680
became a goon line. 
And his line was take your 

1110
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:45,400
filthy hand off my arm. 
And when Spike did it, he went, 

1111
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:51,200
Take your filthy hand off my 
dirty arm and it became a goon 

1112
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:53,000
love. 
Well, that's that is, that is a 

1113
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,360
line from a goon show. 
Yeah, I think my reality says 

1114
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:03,480
that in a goon show. 
Steaming Take your filthy hand 

1115
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:08,600
off my filthy neck. 
Say he was quoting himself. 

1116
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:13,960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Can I just say that apropos of 

1117
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:21,840
the Lorelei story with Mike with
Spike, I was beside myself with 

1118
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,240
excitement that I was going to 
be meeting Spike Milligan, who 

1119
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:31,560
was a huge hero of mine and I 
went over to him and said hello 

1120
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:35,560
Spike, how are you? 
And he said, what do you want? 

1121
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:37,480
What do you want? 
Go away. 

1122
01:15:37,480 --> 01:15:45,840
Leave me alone, I thought. 
Lord, OK, so I I made some 

1123
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,800
pleasantry and he said again, 
leave me alone. 

1124
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:54,840
No, no. 
And that was my sole actual 

1125
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:56,800
conversation with Spike 
Mulligan. 

1126
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:01,400
Really. 
Yeah, he was very, very paranoid

1127
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:06,960
and having, I think, having 
mental problems. 

1128
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,200
I think he was nervous. 
I think he was nervous about 

1129
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,040
doing the show. 
Frank and I think he calmed down

1130
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:20,840
once we got on stage and run it.
I think he he he was feeling 

1131
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:27,120
less on display and more like he
was part of an ensemble. 

1132
01:16:27,440 --> 01:16:28,960
Yeah. 
That I think. 

1133
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:35,000
Also, I think around this time 
he was always complaining he 

1134
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:36,720
couldn't get work. 
Yeah. 

1135
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,200
So his confidence, I think, was 
knocked by that. 

1136
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:40,880
Very much so. 
In fact. 

1137
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:44,160
I, I whenever I saw him, I'd 
say, hello Spike, how are you? 

1138
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:48,400
And he'd say unemployed. 
Yeah, that that was definitely a

1139
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,120
thing. 
Yeah. 

1140
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:51,680
Interesting. 
Yeah. 

1141
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,000
I'm sorry that happened though, 
Frank, because, you know, 

1142
01:16:54,000 --> 01:17:01,120
genuinely you were greeting him 
as as enthusiastically as as any

1143
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,240
of us were, really. 
I mean, it was just great to 

1144
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:06,760
have in this, yeah. 
You know, at school when I was 

1145
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:11,480
growing up, we absolutely loved 
The Goon Show and we're 

1146
01:17:11,480 --> 01:17:16,760
imitating Echoes and Blue Bottle
and Major Blood Knock and all 

1147
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:25,000
those characters. 
So that was a little brief blow.

1148
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:30,040
But you know, too bad. 
That's life as it is, as it goes

1149
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:31,440
on. 
I've not. 

1150
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:34,360
I've not been able to verify 
this actually, but someone told 

1151
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,840
me that in the book of the 
scripts for the original 

1152
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:42,320
flywheel series, there's a line 
and I don't know whether it 

1153
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:46,320
ended up in the. 
In your series, there's a line 

1154
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,120
where somebody asked, I think 
Groucho asked Chico for the 

1155
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,440
time, and Chico says I got the 
correct time. 

1156
01:17:54,440 --> 01:17:56,480
This morning I wrote it down on 
this piece of paper. 

1157
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:57,560
Oh my. 
Good. 

1158
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:02,640
Wow. 
And that was from, what, 1933? 

1159
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,240
I'm just wondering if because 
obviously that that is that line

1160
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:08,640
will resonate with Goon Show 
fans. 

1161
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,360
I'm just wondering. 
Whether, whether don't recall. 

1162
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,720
I mean, Mark might remember 
that, but I don't, I don't 

1163
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:18,120
recall seeing that having read 
through, but that would 

1164
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,000
certainly stick out the mile, 
wouldn't it? 

1165
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,000
Yeah. 
Now correct me if I'm wrong, 

1166
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,520
Ravelli, but I thought I sent 
you over to the Western Union 

1167
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:26,040
office to find out the correct 
time. 

1168
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:27,760
Oh, I find out the time this 
morning. 

1169
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,160
Here I put it down on this piece
of paper. 

1170
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:37,960
Let's face it, I mean, you know,
Spike was blazingly original, 

1171
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:42,280
but you know, he he wasn't above
using good material from 

1172
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:46,240
whatever source. 
I mean look at, you know how, 

1173
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,120
how, how does a lady with wooden
leg change a pound note? 

1174
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:54,160
Well that that was a Christmas 
cracker joke in 1910, you know, 

1175
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:58,560
So yeah, definitely would would 
be that. 

1176
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:04,400
But, but in the end, we were the
last people to work with Spike 

1177
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:09,440
Milligan at the Paris Studio in 
ABBC radio comedy show with a 

1178
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:15,560
live band, which is a pretty 
neat, you know, sort of bucket 

1179
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,280
list item to have, I think. 
Absolutely. 

1180
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:22,480
Absolutely. 
Now, Frank, I asked you 

1181
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:25,720
yesterday because we had, we had
a little initial chat yesterday 

1182
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:29,320
and I asked Frank if he 
remembered appearing on 

1183
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:35,160
television in the Noel Edmonds 
program in in character as Chico

1184
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,240
and Frank, you didn't remember 
that, but Michael, you were on 

1185
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:39,640
that as well. 
Do you remember that? 

1186
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:44,000
He wasn't very happy with me. 
OK. 

1187
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:48,040
Noel Edmonds One of the things 
you realise when you go on these

1188
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:52,280
people shows, if you just watch 
them on TV and you get it's like

1189
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:55,520
with Michael Parkinson. 
What you don't realise is until 

1190
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,920
you get to meet them is the egos
that they have. 

1191
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:04,680
And they don't actually like you
to be funny because it's their 

1192
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:08,520
show. 
And I I said something like. 

1193
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:12,600
Oh, what was it? 
It was a joke. 

1194
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:17,400
I made a joke about it. 
Ended up talking about 

1195
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:24,880
Christmas, so and so. 
Or Hanukkah rice and he he, he 

1196
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:27,240
his face. 
I remember that. 

1197
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,920
It was like, well, excuse me, 
you've got me on the show 

1198
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:35,080
supposedly to be like a Groucho 
and I've chucked a joke at you 

1199
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:38,400
and but you didn't make it. 
I've never forgotten that. 

1200
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:39,080
Yeah. 
No, I'm. 

1201
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:41,840
I would do I do remember 
something to go all the way up 

1202
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:42,880
there for that? 
Yeah. 

1203
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:44,360
No, hang on. 
No, no. 

1204
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:46,840
Edmund's humorless killing my 
leg. 

1205
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:53,240
We did a few TV's because we 
went to Pebble Mill, didn't we? 

1206
01:20:53,480 --> 01:20:56,120
You did we? 
The usual thing was there was a 

1207
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:59,400
piano, so Frank would do sugar 
in the morning and then you'd do

1208
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:02,120
the you know. 
That first scene. 

1209
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:06,960
That first scene together and 
because because they came to the

1210
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,440
Paris and did it there. 
That's the one that's on YouTube

1211
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:14,520
and Dick was speaking and I was 
speaking. 

1212
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:16,720
You were doing the things and 
then you were being interviewed 

1213
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:18,680
while you were making up for the
show. 

1214
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:20,640
That was that was a good one 
actually. 

1215
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,480
That was BBC Breakfast I think 
and then there was Pebble Mill 

1216
01:21:23,480 --> 01:21:27,760
at one with the lovely Sue Cook 
and and we did that whole thing 

1217
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:33,640
and we had a chat and they got 
Nat honing in or they'd phoned 

1218
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,280
him and we're playing him back. 
You know him talking about how 

1219
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:38,000
much he'd enjoyed what he'd 
heard. 

1220
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:43,080
It was it was there was a lot of
interest in in US doing the show

1221
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:47,960
and it was quite funny really 
because you know while all this 

1222
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:52,360
is all this Hoo ha's going on 
I'm just bricking it hoping we 

1223
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:56,680
can get it right and we did 
sounds OK and and it but but it 

1224
01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:01,240
did it sounded fantastic and and
you know I've got to this is 

1225
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:05,360
good opportunity for me to say I
think Michael and Frank you know

1226
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:09,960
are are the biggest reason that 
those shows are still being 

1227
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:13,760
played back they got it so right
you know Mike Mark did a great 

1228
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:17,440
job on the scripts and and and 
you know of composing it all 

1229
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:21,840
together and the band were great
with David but in the end it was

1230
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:24,840
Mike and Frank getting on the 
mics that that actually 

1231
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:29,840
inhabiting those personas that 
made it really take flight and 

1232
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,000
and you know God bless you guys 
you were fantastic. 

1233
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:39,560
Can I just say, thank you, Dirk.
And you know, it's irresistible 

1234
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:44,240
playing those characters and 
with that material you almost 

1235
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:48,640
felt that you couldn't go wrong.
But Dirk, it was you who 

1236
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:55,640
actually provided the right kind
of atmosphere for us to give the

1237
01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:59,960
kind of performances we gave, 
and that was tremendously 

1238
01:22:59,960 --> 01:23:02,960
important. 
I've learned from an early age, 

1239
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:07,600
from a very early on in this 
business, I learned that this 

1240
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:12,160
the the best, the best directors
I've ever seen at work are the 

1241
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:16,680
ones who get out of the way of 
the actors, and it was a 

1242
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:18,480
pleasure to get out of your way 
I. 

1243
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,240
Always wondered why you're 
wearing running shoes. 

1244
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,040
Hey. 
Hey boss, look at all these 

1245
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:27,200
machines. 
This must be a Penny Arcade. 

1246
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:28,920
Wait a minute, Ravelli. 
It's better than that. 

1247
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,440
This is a what? 
The Fuller Brush Man Saw 

1248
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:33,120
machine. 
This ought to be good. 

1249
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:34,200
Give me a penny, Ravelli. 
Oh. 

1250
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:36,040
Boss, you don't want to watch 
that of. 

1251
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:37,400
Course I do. 
Give me the penny. 

1252
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:43,200
Hey, this is hot stuff. 
Ravelli the housewife. 

1253
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:44,800
Just come back in with the 
shopping. 

1254
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:49,400
My, it's a warm day. 
I must get out of these clothes 

1255
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:51,960
and into something cooler. 
There she goes. 

1256
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:53,480
Ravelli. 
Nye. 

1257
01:23:53,480 --> 01:23:56,160
This guy is tied. 
Come on, Bosch, I think we 

1258
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:58,360
better get out of here. 
That crowd might find us no. 

1259
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,080
No, the full of brush man's 
arrived. 

1260
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,240
He sees her, but he's no oil 
painting. 

1261
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:04,800
This one. 
And those clothes, that short 

1262
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:06,560
jacket and the ridiculous 
pointed hat? 

1263
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:11,360
She's taking her bonnet off. 
Last of all, Miss Temple. 

1264
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,720
But that meant Ravelli. 
Bosch I can explain. 

1265
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:16,440
I was a young I needed the 
money. 

1266
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,880
Rebelle, You'll need major 
surgery by the time I'm through 

1267
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,560
with you. 
You listen to those shows and 

1268
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:31,600
they were done with such warmth 
and energy and enthusiasm and 

1269
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:36,560
the main thing was that Frank 
and I, because we'd done Groucho

1270
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:43,040
and Chico on stage and we toured
Scotland after the Edinburgh, 

1271
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:46,400
you know, the Fringe run and 
it's the only show and it's just

1272
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,960
a tribute to Dick as well. 
It's the only show I've ever 

1273
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:54,680
done where everything worked, 
every house regardless. 

1274
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,600
And Scott's audiences? 
You know, do you know the story 

1275
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,400
about Mike and Bernie Winters? 
I do. 

1276
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:02,560
I do clean it up if you're going
to if. 

1277
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,200
You're going to tell it, but I 
will. 

1278
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:07,240
I will say this. 
I saw. 

1279
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:10,440
I went to see the prequel to The
Omen. 

1280
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,880
Yeah. 
Yeah, Bowman, it's a new film. 

1281
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:15,480
Yeah. 
Oh, yeah. 

1282
01:25:15,480 --> 01:25:15,920
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1283
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,000
Which I thought was much, much 
better than I expected it to be.

1284
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:24,240
But they they the ending, and it
ends up with the baby being 

1285
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,480
given to Gregory, you know, as a
photograph with Gregory Peck 

1286
01:25:27,480 --> 01:25:29,040
saying he's going to have the 
baby. 

1287
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:35,000
But there's a plot twist at the 
end that allows for a sequel and

1288
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:39,080
I thought the poster should have
what that guy said from the gods

1289
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:45,440
which is and I will clean it up 
lo me. 

1290
01:25:45,440 --> 01:25:53,640
There's two of them. 
Anyway it was as as frank so 

1291
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,080
right. 
We just had a ball on that and 

1292
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:58,640
it was a privilege to do it. 
And the fact that they're still 

1293
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:03,280
so they're still so loved now, 
it's a bit like people still 

1294
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:06,080
loving the goons. 
You know, the material's great, 

1295
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:11,160
the performers are doing their 
best and and the stuff lives on.

1296
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:14,800
Absolutely. 
Can you get is it on BBC? 

1297
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:16,920
Sounds Dirk. 
Do you know or is it just? 

1298
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:18,000
Do you know I it's? 
Done. 

1299
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:26,000
It's on BBC Radio 4 Extra and I 
get the Radio Times every week 

1300
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:34,600
and I immediately go through the
schedules looking at Radio 4 

1301
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:39,280
Extra to see if this is a week 
when they'll have Flywheel on 

1302
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:44,200
Shy Star and Frank. 
We were on it and they hadn't 

1303
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:48,560
had us for ages and you're quite
peevish about it. 

1304
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,480
It's really time to bring us 
back. 

1305
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:56,320
Yes, I'm I'm just looking it up.
It doesn't appear to be on BBC 

1306
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:59,000
Sounds at the moment, but it's 
time for a letter writing 

1307
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:01,200
campaign I feel. 
It's on Spotify. 

1308
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:03,400
It's on Spotify. 
It's on YouTube. 

1309
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,440
Well, that would be. 
Well, of course it is available 

1310
01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:11,520
as a ABBC audio book. 
You know, the The Complete 

1311
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,640
series. 
So yes, it is absolutely still 

1312
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:16,520
available in those contexts, you
know. 

1313
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:19,800
No wonder when you're not 
earning any money, lads, It's on

1314
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:23,320
Spotify. 
Now available in every format, 

1315
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:26,880
yes. 
I don't get any money for this. 

1316
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,840
I'm staff, no fee because I was 
staff at the time. 

1317
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:37,040
So while Mike and Frank go to 
the Riviera to spend their 48 P 

1318
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:42,240
per 100 repeats, I live in 
penury in the South of England. 

1319
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:47,600
Dirk, have you got any final 
thoughts? 

1320
01:27:49,440 --> 01:27:53,760
I just think it. 
I can't believe how lucky I was 

1321
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:58,080
to to get to actually work with,
you know, the Marx Brothers. 

1322
01:27:58,360 --> 01:27:59,040
Yeah. 
Were you? 

1323
01:27:59,480 --> 01:28:02,240
Yeah. 
But more frank, more frank. 

1324
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:09,200
No, it it was, it was a it was a
combination of a lot of very 

1325
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:14,920
talented people, all united by 
their love of the Marx Brothers 

1326
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,760
and along the way their love of 
the Goon Show. 

1327
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:25,760
And getting Spike aboard 
Flywheel was a was a kind of a a

1328
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:30,440
coup and a triumph and the 
culmination of all our shared 

1329
01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:33,240
passions for comedy, including 
Spikes. 

1330
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:40,040
And the fact that people still 
love it is a testament to what a

1331
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:44,000
wonderful thing something is. 
When it's made with love, how 

1332
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:48,680
much you know it, it then 
generates its own momentum and 

1333
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:51,400
positivity. 
So for that I'm very grateful. 

1334
01:28:52,480 --> 01:28:58,160
Yeah, and I'm I'm, I'm very 
grateful too because it came 

1335
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:05,720
relatively late on in my life 
and career and it's was an 

1336
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:11,160
absolute landmark adventure 
doing the series. 

1337
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:19,080
And I will be 85 on the 4th of 
May, which is quite soon. 

1338
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:24,800
So it's a landmark birthday, and
I have such incredible 

1339
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:27,920
adventures and marvellous things
to look back on. 

1340
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:31,240
And Flywheel, Shyster and 
Flywheel is one of them. 

1341
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:39,520
While I'm at May the 4th, I'll 
just add that that happens to be

1342
01:29:39,520 --> 01:29:45,160
the very date that Alice went 
down the rabbit hole, because 

1343
01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:50,480
it's was also the birthday of 
Alice Lidl, whom Lewis Carroll 

1344
01:29:50,480 --> 01:29:53,400
wrote Alice's Adventures in 
Wonderland. 

1345
01:29:53,960 --> 01:30:00,400
And so I have that distinction, 
and I feel that Flywheel, 

1346
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:09,000
Shyster and Flywheel adds to the
fact that I have to live up to 

1347
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:13,680
the distinction of having a 
birthday on the day the Janice 

1348
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:19,040
went down the rabbit hole. 
And and and how wonderful that 

1349
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:23,200
you chase a white rabbit on that
day every year since Every day. 

1350
01:30:24,440 --> 01:30:27,440
Yes, yes, which is Michael 
dressed up. 

1351
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:31,080
But don't tell Frank. 
Hey, I'm late for a very 

1352
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,640
important day. 
Say goodbye. 

1353
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:34,440
Hello. 
I'm late. 

1354
01:30:34,440 --> 01:30:35,160
I'm late. 
I'm late. 

1355
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:41,600
Thank you very Calana. 
What a perfect no to end on. 

1356
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,480
Gentlemen, it has been a 
privilege. 

1357
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:47,160
Thank you so much for giving up 
your afternoon to speak to me 

1358
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,600
and and all the very best. 
Thank you, Tyler. 

1359
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,360
Thank you Tyler and wonderful. 
See you guys again. 

1360
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:57,960
Thank you very much for coming 
along and being with us tonight.

1361
01:30:57,960 --> 01:30:59,960
You've been smashing. 
I hope you've enjoyed it as much

1362
01:30:59,960 --> 01:31:03,000
as we have. 
Please will you send all good 

1363
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,200
vibrations towards controller 
Radio thought that he's going to

1364
01:31:05,200 --> 01:31:09,120
buy these shows or radio two or 
anybody anywhere. 

1365
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:12,960
LBC Hello. 
So folks, we hope very much 

1366
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:14,200
you'll be able to come and enjoy
some more. 

1367
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:15,360
Thank you very much to all of 
you. 

1368
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:17,480
And thanks to Mark Brisbane and 
Harry Thompson, all the people 

1369
01:31:17,480 --> 01:31:18,880
who've made it happen. 
And thanks to the band. 

1370
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:20,280
Thanks to you. 
Have a safe journey home. 

1371
01:31:20,480 --> 01:31:21,240
God bless you. 
Good night. 

1372
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:21,560
Thank you.