This is BBC One. The last program in the prison
series of it's a square world is tomorrow night at 7:25.
Hello and welcome to game pod. This is a very difficult time
for me, really know how to say it, but I'm actually on a diet.
So, you know, no sweets, no chocolate, no crisps, no pies,
no booze. Choose.
And I'm not touchy at all. Fine.
This week's guest, I'm very fortunate to welcome back tilt
eraser until tonight talked about Michael Benton and more
specifically his groundbreaking television show from the 1960s.
It's a square World. Hope you enjoy it.
Thank you for inviting me back obviously.
I didn't dirty me. Ticket last time.
You and a friend. Gary introduced me to The world
of podcasts basically. Yes, yes.
And burned and already around somebody who has a tenuous
connection, I think you made a suggestion that was a jerk but
it's to me. It just sounded like a really
good idea. Hmm.
And so we talked about the the police career of Dev Lodge we
did in the film. Yeah and the podcast you talking
about this Jaffa cakes for proust which was a sister
podcast? Is the sitcom Club?
Yes, it was it was it's that sort of my Podcast as opposed to
the sitcom called being more, Gary's podcast and in that I
just kept coming up the times. When I just I just wanted to
talk about something that wasn't a sitcom and give it that give
you that titles that sort. So that you know, it's like
we're not we're not being ambitious here.
We're not What trying to ingratiate ourselves here.
Let's have a title that's difficult to associate.
Well, I'd listen to the sitcom club and you'd regularly be
dragging Gary towards uh no topics such as budgie.
Yes. What's the, what's the idea of
got completely gone down it with knockout?
I know Kalin. No, the the one with in
Cuthbertson slipped my mind. Oh Charles endless choir,
Charles endless choir. Yeah.
And Gary would just be wanting to talk about the whackers and
you'd be. You'd be trying to steer him in
this direction. Yeah, be cut because there's a
lot of connections between all forms of all forms of media, but
certainly within British television, There weren't really
comedy actors and dorm actors, even, you know, even today hmm
But British sitcom actors, you know, tend to be like prodigies
of John little wooden things like that.
No famously, because youth of Joyce and Brian Murphy indeed.
Yes. Yeah, and the second Club is
kind of been on and off in the last couple of years but you've
got a new strand launching early next year.
We've done a pilot already, it's called Baal ride up with where
and that was not the title I wanted but Gary felt the title I
I wanted might cause us to get like not not help not hosted on
certain sites or at least have some sort of like explicit tag
put on us and it's all about. Are You Being Served?
What was the title that you wanted Pussy Riot?
It might have got the wrong sort of listeners, who knows.
Well in my view, probably Russian Punk fans talking about
our band and I can I mention the Christmas carol?
Oh yes. Yes.
I was told I was going to try and do one quick, one podcast a
month about different versions of A Christmas.
Carol and one thing and another I've got two recorded that I had
still haven't edited. It's the editing that's really
become the problem for me. I kind of got The Yips.
When editing for like 25 years and then now it's just like
except across the wrist. There is one thing I do, wet it
with ease but that's partially because it's not my voice on it
and I don't have to relive my mistakes.
That's the history of rock, music and 500 songs edit and
co-produced. I don't know why I got a couple
duction credit. I do make very, very small
contributions sometimes to content, but only like
occasionally, I will, I will submit Corrections and
occasionally, my corrections will be incorrect.
So like I said, yeah, 500 songs is hosted by bye.
Andrew hickey hosted written research.
Yeah, but you through tossing, the odd Van Dyke Parks fact now
and then I get I did, I did I think I think I made more
contribution to the heroes and villains episode because there
were a couple of things. I'm actually find a review of a
live performance by Van Dyke Parks, short-lived band, The Van
Dyke Parks, right? And we should Stephen Stills and
things like that. Yeah, this is the thing is that
listeners won't know. Because you and I and an Andrew
and Gary, we regular weekly we speak, don't we?
Yes, it's almost without exception, they'll always be at
least one mention of Van Dyke Parks because he gets around and
he always did get around. He's I think he said himself, he
what, right, not to work if we because people wouldn't believe
it. In fact, act that actually makes
a nice segue to our main topic because Michael benteen had one
of those lives where he kept in countering famous people.
As I said, sometimes claimed, mmm.
My famous people. I'm not saying he was a liar,
but he just, he did enjoy spending a good yet.
There was something about, like, a nuclear scientist, who
defected started, pretending that he'd known him and got his
name wrong and said I'll, yes, but he, let me call him just
said we're talking today about as tall.
Super talking about Michael been two or more.
For they were talking about its Square World, which was the the
BBC comedy series, which ran from 1960 to 1964 and through,
with both watched a handful of episodes of that.
We've got stuff to say about that.
But I wanted to kick off by just talk because it is like you say
me Michael benteen lived, a very colorful life.
Should we say? And, and you and I have both
been Dare I say boning up on Banting.
So I think I am. I bought the copy of his
autobiography and it arrived. I opened it and it was signed.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Do you think he's from? I mean, he died. 25 years ago.
26 years ago? Do you think?
He's, well, he passed through now.
True. What is Darryl?
But do you think he's remembered much?
If at all these days, Yeah, I think he is unfairly forgotten.
Mmm, but one thing that we found when we were watching these
shows together was I mean, it's that terrible word deities that
people use to freely. Hmm.
But I think what it is is that I can't.
I haven't mentioned TV Tropes, I know a lot of people don't like
TV Tropes but I find occasionally there are Concepts
on there that Focus my mind wonderfully they have one called
Seinfeld is unfunny and they talk about that as in a tendency
for younger people to hear all this.
Glowing, praise around Seinfeld watching it and finding, it
doesn't really seem all that big.
It's like, yes. But at the time it seems I'm
funny because there are things that have come in its wake So
it's so some of its Innovations. Now seem commonplace and I think
we found that with it's a square world.
It seemed a little bit tame. This is it.
London entertains. Is that the yes thing with the
girls who are being shown around London?
And they meet the, which producer is it the meat?
Well, Dennis Main Wilson, I think, right?
Yeah. And it's like what they say?
What is it going said? Well, the goons are absolutely
crazy, but they're the stars of the show as if like crazy
people. Yeah, being starts of the Is
somehow wild a new tray because we've got a much higher
tolerance for televisual and media chaos.
Mmm-hmm, and then, and I think there's some of that, is it
working? It's a square world and yet.
It's a square world. You look at it and it's like
there's a lot of python. There's a lot of prefiguring, a
python. Yeah, python, it's a square
World. Plus Q equals python because
there is a certain sense of structure, a certain sense of
making fun of the media with the media's own language in, it's a
square world. well yeah and it never gets talked about Q's
Cuba's the program, that's always cited, isn't it as being
the one that Palin and Jones found each other or whatever and
say, yes, he's got there before us, but they never mention
Square World. Never really gets mentioned, and
it was quite striking watching these shows how how they say, he
sort of prefigured. Yeah, I tell you the ones, the
one that strikes me as being very Square world is python
sketch. The funniest joke in the world
because it's, it's a silly idea but that sketch really
thoroughly explores the internal logic Fit, you know, couple of
men translated to words and had to be taken to hospital.
Did that kind of thing? Yes.
Well, the thing is getting better, Dennis made Wilson.
He was quote, he said about Michael Banting.
He said, that while Spike Milligan was the abstract
thinking, Michael benteen was a superb technician.
Yeah. And and like you say benteen
wanted to explore the internal logic of silly.
Here in spite just through gags out machine gun fire.
Well, here we are at Doonesbury manner, traditional home of Lord
noshing and I think you will agree with me when I say that
this beautiful home, a positively reeks of history.
And I think that is a magnificent gesture to the
nation at the Olympic Training teams.
Have been given the opportunity at a train in these Bonza.
A surroundings allured noshing, what inspired?
To offer your grounds for Olympic training purposes.
Well, I are The Duchess then we'll have to do.
Yes. Well all I can say is that she's
apples Bonza and extra Grouse and the Down Under we would say
of you are you're a real beaut to Camp.
I'm talking about, let me start talking a square Road in a bed.
I'd like to talk about Benton's Life Touch on some of the
highlights because he is a Fascinating man.
But he was he was born in 1922 and his father was a Peruvian
aeronautical engineer. His mother was the daughter of a
Southend waterboard middle manager and I couldn't I
couldn't get any more information about this but I
read something that said that his paternal grandfather had
nearly been made president of Peru but president-elect when he
died. Yes right.
What do we know what happened there?
Then? Well, he died.
Yeah, I don't think there was a suggestion of Foul Play Because
the word the were attempts on his family's life or couple of
occasions where I've been teen's.
Father was nearly killed as a child and his uncle managed to
see off the would-be Assassins with a revolver fire.
Which might explain why. Because the, on the film The
Sandwich, Man. Have you done that one yet?
Well, don't think I need to do that.
When you guys have covered that one that's true on the
commentary track. The director says, Michael
painting is very right-wing. You liked guns.
And you think well, do you know if if your uncle seen off that's
s alleged attempted robber, fly, maybe do grow up with a van, but
he was a bit was pretty handy with a gun himself, wasn't it?
Because he, he could split a playing card from Twenty Paces
with a pistol, right? So the story goes, he was a he
was an accomplished swordsman as well and he was into archery.
Was a he was a yachtsman, he flew aircraft.
He was very very He's one of those I suppose you want your
call was like an adventurer because he went, he took part in
a hovercraft Expedition up the amazon.
Hmm. So he he had this.
This real Affliction didn't happen till up until the age of
16 where he effectively couldn't speak.
Yes, he'd had his tonsils out and the surgeon was drunk.
The operation was conducted in the bent eat the Benton's
because that's the that's just both know, the bensons kitchen.
Hmm. And he was just put under with
ether and apparently the surgeon managed to take out the tonsils
and a big chunk of benteen's nasal pharynx.
Yeah. Ouch.
Yeah, this is one of the things he because I've been to your
cost very much a believer in the Paranormal and say, Psychics and
things like that and said that. Psychic medium had told his
parents that he would be. A very successful actor.
This was a time when he could barely speak.
It's the ridiculous prediction. Mmm.
And was it eating, but I can't remember the name of the teeth
with those. There was somebody there who
basically said that this this, you know, this was curable.
Yeah. There was a, there was a guy
with a speech therapist called Harry Burgess.
Who helps the phrase with a bouncing at Rotten Rhythm and a
run? Well, he had to, he taught him
to see it. Start at the beginning of every
sin. Chance to start to go.
Mmm. Yeah before speaking and and so
he managed to more or less make himself, you know, communicate
with people, by doing it at the beginning of each sentence in
the film. The King's Speech years ago.
Years ago is that he didn't actually saw that at the cinema
on Christmas day over here because Cinemas are open on
Christmas Day. There's a bit where Oh, by the
way, the folks in case you don't know, tilts in the USA.
Yes, Orange County, California. Mmm.
If, you know Cinderella's castle in Disneyland, I live in there,
like to get, put my head out, the window, spit on the
tourists. That's a good day.
Don't want to know I do on a bad day.
Anyway there's a trick that Lionel Logue teachers George the
six right before certain sounds to go.
Ah and once you know that that's something he does you can you
can then hear it in George the six speech.
I think it's some I don't know if it's particular to English.
It's quite a lot of languages. Don't like starting with a
cluster of consonants. So for instance, because I speak
a little bit, a little tiny, don't buckle muy muy Poquito
again, you'll sorry. I used the wrong word, their
little bit of Spanish. I did, I did study.
I did actually take Spanish lessons for a bit with a teacher
from Valencia and he was frowning one time I thought I
was doing right and he said, you know, no you getting it, right?
But you have a Mexican accent. Aunt.
Which as I was taking, as I was taking Spanish because they
found that I was beginning to pick up some of the jokes in
trouble. They launcher, which I was just
watching for the slapstick. So Mexican comedy about an eight
year. Old boy played by a 40 year old
man. I had a point to make, right?
So yes, just the clusters of consonants Spanish, doesn't like
approaching a cluster of consonants without having a
vowel to guide you in so, you know, their analysis stereo,
it's stereo. Yeah, okay, stupid?
Oh yeah. And so there's this.
Yes, there's an element of finding a sound to get you into
a sound. Yeah, and so this is how he
managed to get out to overcome as stem are.
And then he managed to phase out that mmmm at the beginning of
each sentence, and then you dirty rat.
He just spoke English. He spoke Spanish fluent, Spanish
and French. I do like the bit where, you
know, when he was arrested for desertion.
Hmm, he tried to sign up. The second pot warm was told he
was To Farhan. His father was proof.
He and that's this. This was not stand and then some
other parts of the organization and its it's that goon thing,
isn't it? Of the preposterousness of
society that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand
is doing. So, yes, he was then also he was
signed up without his knowledge and was arrested.
Coming off the church during a stage performance, was the first
Soldier rest of the way doublet and hose 400 years.
Mmm. Yeah.
Because we're working with Robert Atkins.
That is open air theater in Regent's Park at the time.
And he had the Peruvian ambassador.
Brought into the issue. It's got to her his Godfather
indeed, but I do like the bit where he mentions were the
proving an ambassador comes to a seven doors miguelito que paso.
Which is Mickey what happened? It took me 14 volunteering to
get into the rare and I only finally got in because I was
arrested as a dessert. I don't know.
Tell us about that because you actually taken off a steed.
But it was very strange because I hadn't been in and I've been
trying to get in ever since 39th.
Only, my brother was in the AJC, honourable artillery company and
his just about to go on stage and me, doublet knows where is
she Spear Shakespeare. Yes, I was playing Lorenzo in
The Merchant of Venice and it's just the flat-out came in and he
said to make will be in Teen Titans.
Yes. Thinking Court last year, the
great wonderful you should do your 65 days adrift awl your
deserter and Robert said, how can we be of the surgery, trying
to get him? The Aria.
I'm trying to get out and then they said he said, take your
sword Freddy make yourself a Mischief Tin Soldier.
Yeah he met he eventually managed to join the breath.
Did he join? Bomber command?
Well, I mean, he's he He never got to be a pilot.
He wanted to be a pilot and of course they were giving the
typhoid. Oh, yes, yes.
Yes, the typhoid vaccine and they ran out, and they got some
more except they didn't get some odd.
They got some typhoid, the guy in front of him died, and he
ended up being hospitalized for quite some time.
Had a near-death experience, came around, and his eyes were
shot, so he Ended up in intelligence.
That's right. Am I am I 9, how are you?
Yes. And now you said that I can sit
just double check. Which one am I 9 was?
Because you had during the war during the war.
There was an MI everything to quote, a, my is an
ever-increasing circles Military Intelligence.
Isn't it Mi? So, yes.
But I think the thing is, is that I think the five and six
had existed, when there was no one, two, three, and four, Oh,
is that right? So many was greatly expanded for
the war. So you man Cummings or coming.
Remember the guy who set up and feel Smith Cummings?
Yeah, see he said he would be. He was MI6.
Yes. Am I not a oh yes oh my name was
assisting prisoners of war and downed Man Behind Enemy Lines.
Oh and resistance are supporting resistance movements weren't
they? and of course, there's another
thing with it's a thing that it's a very dark topic to
mention but it's the thing that interests me benteen was
involved in some level in The Liberation of belsen and to
others who ended up seeing the inside of belsen that but purely
by accident we're Denis Norden and Eric Sykes.
Yes, indeed. They were putting on a show,
didn't have enough lights and somebody said there's a camp up
the road of some sort. Mmm.
And that's when he went in. And, you know, and it Now, let's
quarter of the 20th century. there was that you know sort of
post-punk sneering at certain kinds of gentle corny comedy but
I think it it makes sense. When you seen something like
that, the he would start to cleave towards.
A certain reassuring tone, mmm-hmm Eric Sykes.
And then it's not, there's nothing angry really in there.
Comedy, there's nothing really angry and then teens comedy.
There is no, which is possibly one of the things also that I
think kind of distinguishes him from spike is, I think there is
There is some anger in Spike. Oh yeah. but benteen is, More of
an establishment figure. I think, I think it's when it's
a billing for the first crazy people.
The radio time set, sees fit to mention that Banting went to eat
and as if that makes it all right?
Don't worry, Somebody went to the right School.
Do you think that that's some of the tension between 19 and Spike
was down to Milligan having a bit of an inferiority complex
and feeling? You know, I wouldn't like to
psychoanalyze spike like that. I don't think I have any
particular insights. Okay.
I can't I get the feeling that probably any given day.
He might suddenly develop an inferiority complex compared to
anybody. I said that that that anger can
that kind of anger can suddenly attach itself to the wrong.
Target. But I can see someone go
brilliant. A brilliant mind Mike Milligan
could see this slightly dandified character in benteen
whose what we would call a suppose a renaissance man.
Yes. And and the thing that interests
me and he I've mentioned last time is that You see those
pictures of them wear their hair is all messed up and they're all
pulling their funny expressions and then you see pictures of
them where they've you know, they've come their hair back and
benteen hasn't been T. Couldn't he says in his
autobiography that it was kind of like permanent makeup.
He thought that he you know, because he had here.
Being a solo stage performer after the war and before the
goons. Yeah.
And he'd cultivated this kind of mad scientist persona, but,
yeah, his hair is His hair is all over the place and he had
Van Dyke beard at a time. When that would sort of where he
mentions having problems with US Customs.
Yes, you can say, love to be a fly on the wall in 1951 or
whatever it was he when he first went over there.
Looking like this Anarchist. Yes.
Well, that's what did he was asked like what are your
political views? And he said, I don't really have
any so you're an anarchist nice, conservative, liberalism I guess
we've gone over that once, but it's worth mentioning, then this
situation again, this ridiculous institutional Madness, that
won't let him join the forces and then finds him guilty of
desertion. Mmm.
So he sees his Madness but he can call the Peruvian ambassador
to speak for him. So there is also a certain
Institutional advantage that the frizzed is these days.
Check your privilege. Because we all of us, we all of
us have personal disadvantages and advantages and
institutional, disadvantages and advantages.
And it's very difficult to really see, which is which
sometimes He never you never get the impression that he I mean,
he had it headed, very tragic life in many, many ways in terms
of his family and that, well, the first 16 years of his life,
he couldn't speak and you know he had a lot of things went on
in his life that to anyone else would be, you know, harrowing.
But he seemed he was here. He did have a slight, he comes
across as a sort of a Pollyanna character and this the whole or
think it is, Femme be conducting psychic research.
And then being satisfied. That it is correct.
That there is something behind the veil.
And so, yeah, I was, I wasn't asleep on, you know, but there's
an optimism to his view because he knows deep down, That it's
all for the best it will all work out.
He had what three near-death experiences.
Hmm, two of which saw him suspended in unbelievable,
light. And one in velvet Darkness from
complete, peace. And so yes, that will take away
still some of the edge if you If you're of the mind that nearly
everybody goes to heaven. Yeah I don't want to dwell on
this but it's worth touching on the fact that three of his
children died in his lifetime. It's so his son.
Son Stewart was killed in a light aircraft accident in 1971
and and benteen later claimed that he had had a premonition of
this accident. Like 12 weeks earlier.
I need wounded. Some that is some didn't listen
to him and then he claims that he was visited in his garden.
I Stewart the year after he died and was quite at peace with
that. So, yeah.
And then is to make two of his daughters, then died of cancer
in the 80s and but he seemed too.
He just seemed to make the best of it if they exist, if that's
the best phrase. Mmm, it was like conversation
that I had with Dirk maggs several months ago where where
he's making at last to go on show, the Goon show documentary
for the 40th anniversary, Eddie interviews Milligan cecum and
Banting. And at one point He suggests to
To them all individually that possibly they could do what he
was doing with flywheel shyster. Inflow World bringing back the
Marx Brothers on the radio and and He suggests two or three of
them that perhaps they could do the you know perhaps I could
resurrect some old old goon show scripts that had been.
You know the show is no no longer exists and restage them
for the radio and And I think seek Him was more or less open
to it, Milligan more or less against it and benteen wanted
time to think about it and then he he phoned Dirk couple of days
later and said actually I don't think it's a good idea.
I was talking to Peter and he said we shouldn't do it.
Yes. And of course when we were
preparing for this, I told you, I said I've had a word with my
corn. What's your earliest memory of
venting? Can you can you remember
probably I would have probably grown up watching potty time,
right? I do remember when they started
sort of repeating some old, maybe they hadn't started
repeating images. Started listening to doing shows
in the 80s and my parents showed up sort of talking about benteen
and them trying to work out if he was one of the ones we were
hearing, I truly think about where I was trying to work out
who was doing the voice of Wallace greenslade demon talk a
because obviously, what is greenslade is a comedy near?
Yeah, I used to think I used to think I've been, I've got this
feeling that I've got this feeling that I have that I did
see potty time when I was very young because it just seemed so
familiar, but I don't know if that's kind of a false memory.
You know what I mean? I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know. I certainly remember the first
time I remember seeing Michael benteen for sure.
For definite was again. I've said this before, on this,
on this podcast, tvnz, kids show kids series called.
Well, I thought it was called Terry in the Gun Runner's
because that was the original graphic novel title.
But it was I think the TV series was called Terry t0 and Michael.
Panting pops up. And it says, I think this from
85, Michael benteen is one of the central characters in that
playing a villain called Ray Vegas cigar-chomping.
You know, Panama white kind of my hat will rest of it and, and
that was the first time I'd ever heard of Michael benteen, or was
aware of Michael been to Vegas. Doesn't look too pleased, but
try and look as if you've got a few clothes, will you You two
Geniuses, never considered that the stuff that you're carrying.
Their, he's very dedicated, very delicate, indeed.
One, good job like that. And the horror of could go
kapow, even now find that quite surprised cut and glad of it.
But there's some find it quite surprised casting because he
didn't do a lot, really. If you think about it, he didn't
do a lot. He was very busy in the 60s
sense. of television and radio and what not, he doesn't do a
lot really after the 70s, does he know, Have you discussed,
Here Comes Channel, 8, on the show yet all of forgotten about
that, if that's an, that's an interesting comparison, because
that's, I mean, it's less purely benteen, but it's interesting to
look at it's a little less. Pulling its punches in terms of
pace than it's a square world. Mmm.
So like I said that, That quality that it's a square world
can sometimes have of being just a little bit too tame.
If it's just never stop making it a square world that tone I
think would have evolved in evolved, and evolved and kept
pace. What part did you play in the
third world war? Lord, second trumpet.
I couldn't get the case open. It was over.
And that time, well went. Yeah.
Yes, live to 100 water. Water water.
Yes. Dare one ask.
Why water? I'll never touch it.
Never touch more. No, no.
And that you feel is actually contributing factor.
Yes, yes, yes. That and rocks rocks.
Yes. I've avoided if people are rocks
and boredom you know I'll find you live longer without been
built with rocks. True.
Just as it is absolutely true. What are your plans for the
future? I hope to live long enough to
see this interview through. Yeah.
Cousin you know another another influence that It's a square
world. I think must have had is in some
of the early series. One of the cast members was
Ronnie. Barker.
Yes. And those standing at the desk
saying good evening and again it's exploring the internal
logic of a silly idea, it is absolutely when we were watching
the, we watched what 45? Yeah, shows.
And yeah there was there was a couple of occasions where I said
to you, Or we both said to each other.
That's, that is one of those Ronnie Barker sketches from The
Two Ronnies. Yeah, because, yeah, there's
quite a lot. Benteen is apart from the film
sketches that end shows Ben 10 is kind of the straight man.
Yeah so he will he's behind a desk and he's definitely
somebody who's interested in the latest developments in
technology and and it's developments in news.
He's interested in like different National boundaries
and things like that. There's a certain ripped from
the headlines quality. and yeah, so there's quite a thing where
he'll say he will be there with the pointer and a diagram It
would be like some of those weren't Ibaka sketches, and also
the hill do occasionally run through silly new stories, which
is like the desk routines that begin and end The Two Ronnies.
Yeah, and I said, again, as I said to you, so obviously none
of this was repeated at the time and City.
I wonder how much pilfering of ideas went on in the 50s late
50s into the 60s in terms of sketch ideas.
And because obviously, you know, Once seen never seen again,
there's a sketch in one of the square ones that we watched
where there's a paint-by-numbers Mona Lisa and Spike Milligan
more or less copies, that idea for a queue.
Yeah uh and I wondered whether because he's very his humor is a
world away from Milligan's in many ways and I wondered whether
because of the fact that he couldn't Speak until he was 16.
That's why his humor is tends to be more visual than verbal was
like too much of a really good point.
Yes, no, that's an excellent point, it's not gag, it's not
punchline, comedy as it is, it's not just in terms of and I don't
know how much of a it's not necessarily.
Maybe it was a conscious influence, I thought no, but the
film sketches at the end also have a certain resemblance to
some of the goodies. Hmm, things get you apply.
By an idea and then you sort of Chase it around a location.
I've just I want to talk about these things.
I tend to put them on the TV. And right now, the one I'm
looking at is basically like World War Two but being fought
with music. Oh yes!
Another a career that he could sell for sort of rescuing is the
Camry. Oh, go on to me about that nice.
It's just that you know dick Henry, what happened leaves?
And what hasn't been doing too? Well in a according to benteen
contemplated suicide. Really?
Yes, and he every credited benteen picking him to be in
square world as being a thing that sort of turned his career
around. You must hurry to get, except
see him, a better memory. Is it key goons?
Yeah. I mean, in some ways, then this
kind of makes the Spectra at this Feast that is Benny Hill,
who's kind of like a lost non goon element to this, because
it's, because Benny Hill in the sixth in the 50s and 60s when he
was at the BBC. Hmm, he was famous for making
fun of Television, making fun for making fun of commercials.
Which was seen as a bit. Yep.
And doing sketches, where he played every character, and
there's quite a lot of his sort of exploring, I mean one
sketches like taking a nursery rhyme and restaging it as
different television formats. Mmm.
So it's like Bo Peep as an episode of z-cars.
Yeah, it's it's all interconnected.
But the stuff that's this, you know, the stuff that people
remember is this is the people who were sort of caught copying
those formats copying those I'd not copy but had been marinated.
Hmm in this comedy. Yeah, and so it just came out in
their own Styles. I meant to ask you, sorry, just
just to go back a little bit when we were talking about his,
his big nose big hair and his beard and all the rest of it
back in the early 50s, don't know if you.
And I have really ever set. The talked about down among the
z-man in terms of what you think the film.
What's your, what's your takeaway from that?
It's been a long time since I watched it but I did used to
watch it a lot. Hmm a lot and really yes I
tipped it right off the TV at to the extent that even now I have
to stop and remember that on the bun shop.
Blood knock is a major, not a colonel.
Mmm. Yeah, I just used to watch it
and watch it. Like, you know, what does is a
child? It's not great, it's not
terrible. And there's some interesting
stuff in it and Benton you could argues is the best thing in it.
I mean I don't think he is but I can see why some people might
make that argument. He's the one who's acting the
most like a goon. He's the one who is, you know,
is it's the one he couldn't really take and put in a
different situation and have him even Even Echols is relatively
normal. Yeah, and that you could put
enemy blood, not studying blood, not really is, it's just like,
plus, I'm sorry. Lee uniform is sellers, doing a
slightly different voice that has yes, with a bit of pepper
and salt in his hair and, and the do it yourself.
Another thing that we watched together, but yourself cartoon
kids want to talk about that? No, okay.
Like to Spring that on me. Well, and testing your metal
now. So yeah, I mean it's Bob
Godfrey. Mmm.
Benton's just really doing the voice over internet.
I'm just going to have a look at Bob coffees Wikipedia page or my
tablet. See if he was anything to do
with biographic films, Who provided the animation for?
It's just quite what cost ya again, when I'm talking about
python influence, cause a lot of Animation is where world.
Yes, there's a sketch because it, because one of the episode
was it was a compilation that was put together and submitted
for the Montreux. Yes.
Now here's the thing, though. Apparently been team.
It's says that it's a square world was not well-liked.
Right? He says you Colton green had it
out for him. And when, when they Wonder want
roll Festival, he was invited up to a meeting handed glass of
warm Champion. Told You've Won some sort of
award, but he says that green and asked him to use it to
square world, to make fun of the conservative government.
Oh, really? Okay, and that when benteen
refused the knives were out. But there's the sketch where in
the Montreux show compilation, where we've got a singer, not
quite sure who the singer is, but a guy singing a song and you
can see inside his head it's pretty much.
It's animated because it's like the numbskulls.
Mmm. And which we establish the
numbskulls had started before it's a square world but it is
one of those ideas that isn't so devastating the original that we
can't. We can only assume that But
teams copying it. It's well, as it's been used for
a Pixar film inside out and yeah, it is.
This animation is like a steel industry chart with his
animation like Wacky. Racers kind of Animation.
If you found anything about Bob Godfrey.
Bob Godfrey is credited to be part of the animation Department
of, it's a square World on the IMDb, so it might even be true.
There we go. And of course, he also worked on
son of Fred few years before. Hmm.
So there's that going connection just to talk about some of the
people in some of the supporting cast.
Just in its Square, was quite a quite, a long list, but some
names that would go on to become more famous obviously.
Really Barker think Ronnie. Barker only turns up in two
episodes and he was in one of those that we want.
Yeah, we only had I think about 6 to draw upon, it's got a
pretty decent survival rate. It's right fifty Seven episodes
in total and I think 11 are lost, so it's not that's not a
bad. Yeah, that's not bad.
Dick Emery's you saved? But Bruce Lacey, Frank Thornton,
Derek guiler, certainly Garrett, guyler plays, a lot of mad
scientist. Speaking of mad, scientists
course, we get. What?
Might, well be a televisual first ad from December 31st,
1963. I think the characters called
dr. Fathering Gail, some
farthingale, something like that.
Mmm, but Clive done is wearing an approximation of the outfit
of the first doctor from Doctor Who.
So 1963 is just leaving the calendar and we have, what is
probably the first Doctor Who parody news lately is the fact
that the British at last you're going to send a rocket Outer
space. It is the txr to for which we
have a half-scale working working model in the studio
tonight as you can see and the idea is to orbit around the
Earth and to gain momentum and then to shoot it off into orbit
around the moon. And here to tell us something
about it. Tonight is a very distinguished
member of the Irish interplanetary society and the
British rocketry commission scaring have a word with him
before. Are my reading, dr.
I wonder if I can wear with anything.
Excuse me. But have I the honor of
addressing down Doctor Who? No, not Doctor Who so it was
around the Kennedy assassination.
Time was Doctor Who started on the 23rd of November 1963,
right, there you go. And So within weeks, banty does
noticed the show and it's obviously kind of thing that
appeals to him. Yes.
And of course, he was offered the part but turned it down
because he was told he wouldn't have time to be involved in the
scripts. Yes, if that would have been
for, I think for the role that eventually went to hurt week on,
but I've been with Tom back. A thank you because I think they
asked everybody before they asked Tom Baker, but and my wife
is not forgiving Tom Baker for say yes.
Because if he had said, no, the next name on the list was full
to Makai. I could see that.
How would bent in if played the character?
Do you think if he had taken the role, I think I can see more or
less playing himself really. With guns Doctor Who with guns.
So does I think you sort of 80% himself?
Maybe 20% Professor Pure Heart. Mmm.
But there's this not really there's not really much you need
to do to develop a kink or a quark.
This, he's got it. I can't I couldn't find the
quote again there was some there was some right up somewhere
which describes him as having a laugh like a faulty boiler.
So it's a the pilot of its Square world was added in in
Autumn 1960. And then the first series began
in only 61 and there's a writer but the radio times to accompany
the first episode of the first series, which goes when Michael
oblong, benteen first took the square World on his shoulders.
Last September, there is General trepidation with viewers, dare
to face up to such sights. How many could trust them?
Themselves to look around the bend with benteen or up.
The pole was Clive done these. Another well-known human beings.
Some of the biggest squares in the business were ready.
Nay eager to transport us to another dimension, mad.
Mad mad and bent his words and wait for missiles of Praise or
blame and every shape from Square to Elliptical.
So you go, yes, nothing. It's Clive.
Does about that, those those what I've got to mention the
Doctor Who figures played by Clive gone, You didn't mention
you did mention. He died.
Yep. And he's another one, like,
Derek gilo. I think you note.
It takes a lot of the wacky characters.
So the event like presented as interviews and painting is the
interview in those interview sketches, the laugh lines, all
go to the non benteen performer. Yeah.
Comes up with a lot of high concept ideas for sketches, but
tends to struggle to pay them off, sometimes sometimes there
be an entire sketch where the punchline is obvious from at
least halfway through, and then that's it.
It's sort of its own all this effort for, A weak punch line.
Yeah, there's a sketch where he's an orthology ornithologist
scaling. What looks like scaling down at,
I'm sure it wasn't that scary done a proper Mountain face to
locate this rare bird nest. There's a large egg in the nest
and then he gets a frying pan and he lights a fire and Fries.
There's egg and adjust the amount of effort to the costume
for the Aging of it. He's that he's looks like he's
abseiling down a. Is this A rock face?
Just for that? Wait, you these days you could
have the best punch line in history and he wouldn't be able
to have that much money spent on true.
A sketch show. True Peak television can go to
hell with. We are very limited in a number
of ways, in television these days, and It is even watching
old Morecambe and wise, it's like, wow.
This bear had a whole like High Street sets that they put up.
Yeah, that joke for a quickie. What are the Doctor Who sketch
today? I got a big ol years at me that
yes, there was a rocket. Yeah, maybe see, television
Centre going into space. Which I don't know if that was
the one that resulted in the memo that Michael benteen
treasure. That said, BBC television Centre
is not to be used for the purposes of entertainment.
Yes, he goes into space and Patrick Moore gets and what does
it? You did Sir, my Cameo appearance
by Wilfred Bramble. There is yes, that tall.
It's not easily. Observable is the BBC,
television Centre. And if you use a moderate power
on a tree and refactor, you'll be able to see its form together
with the mini lights associated with it.
Very little is known. As yet about this interesting
body, it's believed to contain life of a kind, but whether this
life is intelligent or not, is naturally quite another matter
and there's a great deal of argument going on about at the
moment observations, because it's a square.
World when it gets, if it gets talked about these days there's
a handful of sketches that people mention.
There's that there's the famous Chinese junk sent up the Thames
to attack the houses of Parliament.
Yes, he seems. Particularly proud of that one.
He tells the story of meeting. Somebody who owned it, an
authentic Chinese junk and he managed to hire it.
He got an agreement to hire it before he had an idea of what to
do with it. Alright.
Okay, so it hadn't been fully formed.
Then the idea was no, he was, he was just, he was on his butt and
saw this junk, inside of that mission to come aboard.
I'm find it was, it was, it was owned by an out-of-work actor
who said that meant, he could hire it as long as you execute
to appear at the sketch, right? Okay.
This is perfectly forever. And then the idea came later,
does he say that people kind of just let them get on with that?
There's nobody really interfered know the police disease.
He's, he said, he got the sense. That put that certain people
were not going to point and say, look at the Chinese junk just in
case there were the only people, the only one who can see it.
You don't want to point it out. Yeah, get that.
That's one thing. Because yes, we listened to A
recording of an audience with Michael benteen.
It was called the original goon. Yeah.
And there are a couple of things where he's sort of, says only
Britain so he had that again. There's that Does that warmth
towards? The country is not quite as
despairing of it. No, he think, you know, he
thought it was wonderful that he was brought into the RAF because
he had told the officer interviewing him, who had been,
I think it's quite a famous cricketer.
He told the officer that he could bother China and five
times out of six, hmm. In his autobiography, is quite
critical of the class system. so I think certainly through his
childhood there was that slight feeling of other nurse that
follows him around, so he There might be an affection towards
Britain, but not, if it's heart starts to take itself, too,
seriously, we've got of with we've talked a lot about
denting, the man, not so much, I guess about it's a square world.
It's because a lot of the sketches are went to repetitive
but a lot of them were just the one.
I liked police and it wasn't because of its Outlook.
It was just again, a lot of effort for not much is there is
a sketch taking plate and it seems to have what there's a
Sketch taking place in the gunsmiths.
Yes. Yes I need what it is is you
have all these rich people who are firing guns in all
directions. Hmm.
And this, this man who just wants to buy some .22 caliber
ammunition and has to fill out a bunch of forms because he's just
an ordinary jaw. And that's pretty much the point
of the sketch. I'll look at these rich people.
Mmm! I look at this poor blighter.
Switch to the 38 Smith & Wesson, police special with a 3 inch
barrel. In order to inspire you,
But have we left some meat on the bone that we haven't?
Yeah, I mean, I think know that yet, I think I think from the
shows that we watched, there's not a lot more that we can say
at this stage, but I think that what we need to do is to
reconvene at a later date because there's a lot like a
good idea. Yeah.
I think there's a lot more about benteen and his is output that
we can talk about maybe I can. His entire autobiography by that
point. I'm a terribly slow reader but I
wouldn't mind reading one of his because he wrote a couple of
novels, didn't he? Right?
Yes, so I wouldn't mind. Perhaps reading one of his
novels, I'd like to watch some of the Bumble, he's like I have
a couple of those. There's some audio that I'd like
to listen to as well. So I think we could, we could
perhaps meet again next year and talk about more more been team,
excellent. Look forward to it, but just
before we wrap up, is there anything?
I mean, you've mentioned pussy, right?
Not Pussy. Riot rides.
They'll ride up with wear that with is, there is a see, there's
already an eye being third podcast will wear of called that
does suit Madam. That's right there.
Do it. But that's was more.
They were doing every single episode and it was more
reactions. Hmm, being to Americans. whereas
so we're more but we're going to do it series by theories rather
than every individual episode and bring more of our Research
chops to Bear. Yeah, anything else coming up
not that I can think. Okay.
I've got a bit of a flat brain, you know it's it's been a while
since I've taught this much where you're going to be rushing
out. Like, what?
At least half a dozen Christmas? Carol, I'm either going to rush
them out, or just going to resume again.
Next July. It's oh, by the way, haven't
decided yet. We forgot to tell the boys.
And girls, I'm I was your first guest on that was not talking
about. Oh, yes, talking about a Muppet
Christmas Carol, that is it, that is available for all to
hear. All right?
So, tilt, this until it has been.
It has been a blast. We will get back together and
talk about more benteen stuff at some point early next year.
And until then farewell, take care.
Goodbye, thank you again to tilt.
Thanks for listening, if you haven't already, could you
please rate and review on Apple, bod casts and next week?
Are going to be talking about the fear of wages.
So, tune in for that, in the meantime, take care of
yourselves. I will see you soon.
Bye. Are going to be talking about
the fear of wages. So, tune in for that, in the
meantime, take care of yourselves.
I will see you soon. Bye.