1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,840 Shooting the cat up the ass, I could do that any day if I saw 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,000 them about to kill fledglings, you know, I mean, so I would 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,760 shoot you up the ass if I saw you about to kill your 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,960 grandmother, mind you, I'd help you with some grandmothers on 5 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,480 the other day, but I just said I would. 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,680 I, I, it's my own cat. I mean, so it's, I can shoot him 7 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,000 up his ass If he's my cat, I feed the other end. 8 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,680 So I'm certainly he's killing birds. 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,120 You see young birds and people don't know how 1 cat can destroy 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,800 the entire Ivarian a life in 20 gardens in about two years. 11 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:36,000 He can destroy it. So I had the air gun because I 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,440 could never get to the animal in time. 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,240 And I would ping him and I got a very light pellet used to sting 14 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,680 him. Didn't penetrate the flesh. 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,960 But all the oh, my poor Pussycat brigade. 16 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:45,960 Never mind the rest of the world that can die. 17 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,640 Never mind the mangled body of little birds with their wings 18 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:49,680 torn off. That's OK. 19 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,040 But poor Pussycat. Oh, poor Pussycat. 20 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,680 Poor Pussycat. Let's have a Pussycat. 21 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:24,960 What? The. 22 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,040 Hello and welcome to Goompod, the only podcast in the world 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,960 that is brave enough to tackle the really big subjects that 24 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:42,240 nobody else wants to talk about, such as where does Santa Claus 25 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,800 go in the summer, Where does socks come from, and who is Pink 26 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,800 Oboe? Joining me to Mull over these 27 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,840 naughty questions is the actor and writer Lee Moon. 28 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,920 Hello, Lee. I don't know where socks come 29 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,680 from, but I tell you what, I don't think they get on with 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,600 each other because the amount, the amount of fallouts that 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:07,000 socks must have in those closed drawers because they're never a 32 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,800 pair. And I pull out a sock and unless 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,880 there's a lot of sock swapping going on and they have a very 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,680 active sex life in my drawers, no pun intended. 35 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,520 It's just I don't know. I don't know what it is and. 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,000 And oral sucks reading. So that's yeah, sucks. 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,640 Absolutely intuitive listeners, those in the know, the the 38 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:35,560 clever ones that listen to this podcast, not the not the general 39 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,120 rebel, but the clever ones would have picked up on the fact that 40 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,560 those were three goon show episode titles. 41 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,720 The 1st 2:00 we're from the completely forgotten series 3. 42 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,400 Now. None of those exist, sadly. 43 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,680 But Lee, it's really good to get you back on. 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:53,520 Thank you so much. Oh. 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,600 Pleasure, pleasure. We were chatting just 46 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:56,680 beforehand. You said. 47 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,200 It was what, two years since we've had a chat before? 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Two years. So, so you came on because when 49 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,800 was it 2015, 2016, You, you 20? 15 Yeah, yeah, nearly ten years 50 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,560 ago. Karl Jay, you put on a stage 51 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,200 production of or you adapted for the stage. 52 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,760 The Phantom. I always do this. 53 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,040 I was going to say Phantom Edge the. 54 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:26,280 I thought you were the Phantom. Yeah, yes, Yeah, I did. 55 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,640 I did. And actually you just saying 56 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:33,440 that about the Lost episodes, and I don't think I said this 57 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,840 last time in order for me to extend a little bit of the 58 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:44,760 comedy of, you know, the running time for Phantom, what I 59 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:50,800 actually did was I listened to a lot of the goon shows and I 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,640 thought that's a good gag. And I took it and I thought, 61 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,360 well, actually, yes, I'm stealing, but I'm stealing 62 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,880 Spike's material to put into Spike's show. 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,320 Yeah. So some of some of the script, 64 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,000 obviously I had to sew some of it together, but others of it 65 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,200 was peppered with some of Spike's gags. 66 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,480 So those people who were in the know would certainly go, oh, 67 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,120 that's a gag from you know. But I thought, well, the scripts 68 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,840 are there, the humans there, Spike's not here. 69 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:28,320 So what would he do, You know, inserting a gag here and there. 70 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,760 So that's what I did. I actually, I actually nicked 71 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:36,440 from Spike and gave it to Spike. Absolutely, Lee. 72 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,920 So we had such a great chat last time, two years ago, two years 73 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:41,920 ago. Where has the time gone? 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,200 But I did want you to come back at some point and. 75 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:48,040 Thank you, thank you. I was really flattered when you 76 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,080 when you said and I know we've had little darts about. 77 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,320 I was a month, I was a month in advance for this. 78 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,880 When is it tonight? No, you said it's next month. 79 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:04,720 So yeah, as you can see, my my diary keeping isn't fantastic, 80 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,680 but we're here now, so thank you very much. 81 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,440 Indeed. And and we're talking about 82 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:15,160 staying on Spike, we're talking about what I would say is, and I 83 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,080 was talking to you prior to recording and I said this is 84 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:26,440 probably I'm struggling to think of a more telling interview with 85 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:31,360 Spike Milligan. Yes, it's the interview that 86 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,840 Spike conducted or at least David Dimbleby conducted with 87 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:40,040 Spike and it's called Face Your Image and it was broadcast on 88 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,880 Friday the 14th of March 1975 on on BBC One. 89 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,200 I think actually I didn't make a note of that. 90 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:48,760 I think it's no. BBC Two, I think. 91 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,280 BBC Two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 92 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,080 OK. It sounds. 93 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,000 Yeah, it is. It is thinking about it. 94 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,960 It is ABBC 2. Isn't it? 95 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Yes. It is. 96 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,320 It was broadcast 10:15 in the evening. 97 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,120 Spider Man, you know, I think he's a genius. 98 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:04,840 Mad. But a genius. 99 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,640 Insane. Clever, but quite insane. 100 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,560 Not insane, but mad. Yeah. 101 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,120 I don't know any of them. I must have either seen, and I 102 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,000 don't know whether it has been repeated or clips, you know, 103 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,320 people do these shows of clips of, of things. 104 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,960 But it's fascinating to watch in its entirety. 105 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,560 And I'm glad it's, I'm glad it's there. 106 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,960 It's been on YouTube for. Years. 107 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,120 Yeah, it's one of those things I I've known that it's been on 108 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,680 YouTube for a lot. I mean, I remember seeing it. 109 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,840 I don't know where I saw it. I got, I somehow got a copy of 110 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:48,320 it years and I mean back, I'm talking 20, well, 30 years ago 111 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,440 really, maybe more. Yeah, I got, I got a copy of it 112 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:57,680 on video and it was really, really bad. 3rd or 4th or 5th 113 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,280 copy of a copy of a copy, you know what I mean? 114 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:04,800 It was really bad, but I used to kind of watch that and persevere 115 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,280 with it, even though the sound wasn't great And but yeah, it's 116 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:09,520 not. That brilliant on YouTube 117 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,720 either, actually. I mean, yeah. 118 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,960 It's yeah. But it's I love the timecode at 119 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,920 the bottom. Yeah, I mean Facial Image was a 120 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,840 short series, I believe and and each episode David Dimbleby 121 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,920 would be putting quite serious questions to the likes of 122 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:34,400 Jermaine Greer, Lord Longford, Malcolm Muckridge, and he was 123 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,520 inviting them to also hear how people close to them thought of 124 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,280 them. Yes, which was which was quite 125 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,880 key. Remain friends. 126 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,720 Afterwards. Yeah, this is an odd. 127 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,720 Thing. It's an odd thing to do, I 128 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,360 think. It is odd. 129 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,360 And there's a few. There's, well, how many? 130 00:07:54,360 --> 00:08:01,360 There's maybe five people. 5-6 people are on tape here talking 131 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,760 about Spike, and Spike's watching in the studio as 132 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,480 they're talking about him. Yeah. 133 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,840 And he's quite happy with a couple of them. 134 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,560 John Entrebus, Jimmy. Grand I think's the best, 135 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,920 really. He he's a bit bemused by Peter 136 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,640 Sellers. I have to say I've got, I've got 137 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,280 something. Well, we'll come onto it, but. 138 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,200 We'll come onto that. But there is a, there's a, 139 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,880 there's one guest or one person in particular who really kind of 140 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,520 throws the cat among the pigeons. 141 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,480 Judith. Yeah, which which we will come 142 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,039 to. Spike has shown willing. 143 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:42,960 He's come onto this television interview. 144 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,840 It's, it's not Parkinson, it's certainly not Russell Hardy. 145 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,360 It's David Dimbleby, who at this time, I don't know, was David, 146 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,600 David Dimbleby? What, what, what was he such as 147 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,000 a sort of a television journalist and what, what, what 148 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,120 was he doing around this time, do you know? 149 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,400 I think he was at this. I mean, this is very early 150 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,720 career for Dimbleby. I think he's just coming out of 151 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:11,240 the shadow of his dad's career and carving, carving his way 152 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,800 forward. He's obviously very much, the 153 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,040 BBC are very much trying him out because he's on BBC 2. 154 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,360 So I think yes, this is, this is the start of, oh, we've got a 155 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,760 Dimbleby and let's let's put him to use. 156 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,520 That's the impression that I am because it is 75. 157 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,520 And I don't think he would have been as big a name as he then 158 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,000 later came to become, especially for the BBC. 159 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,480 Oh absolutely. I'm just watching. 160 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,080 I've got, I've got the the episode playing in the 161 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,920 background here on silent, obviously on mute. 162 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,600 The budget for this must have been about 50P. 163 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,080 Or no. Because you've got Spike there, 164 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,880 they've got 22 chairs, a table in between them and an old 165 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,000 CRTTV. That's hilarious. 166 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,760 Really, it's hilarious. Yeah, to play the clips, yeah. 167 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,800 There's probably, there's probably a man underneath 168 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,080 pressing the button because there wouldn't be a remote 169 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,600 control, so he's underneath the telly and that's probably why. 170 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,240 Spike giggles. Quite a few. 171 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,280 Yeah. So this goes out 14th of March 172 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:28,640 75, the pilot of The Melting Pot was broadcast what, three months 173 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,560 later. Have you ever seen that? 174 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,960 No. Do you know of it? 175 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,680 You know of it? You do. 176 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:41,320 Yeah, yeah, yes, probably more notorious than Korean chips. 177 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,280 Yes, it was yes, but that that, so that's, I'm just mentioning 178 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,680 that that's where Spike was in his career. 179 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:50,880 And obviously Q 6 was was on the verge of being transmitted in 180 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,560 November. So some good stuff, some not so 181 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:54,960 good stuff. But anyway, here we go. 182 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,080 And I want to talk through, I don't want to go through every 183 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,640 single thing that Spike says here, but I I wanted to, I've 184 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,080 made notes of of of the whole show and I just wanted to talk 185 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,440 through it in general and just see what your thoughts are. 186 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,640 It's got it begins with a pre credit vox pop sequence with a 187 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,800 couple of people. In the street. 188 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:20,000 And then we get the titles and this Eric Satie music. 189 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,160 I don't know what the music's called. 190 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,520 I know the music. I always associate it with a 191 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,240 soap advert from television when I was a kid do. 192 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,440 You know, it did seem really familiar that. 193 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,480 Yeah, but it educated me because I didn't know who it was. 194 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,960 So thanks. Thanks Mike for the education. 195 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,000 Yeah, because that's right. Immediately the first thing that 196 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,120 he says to Dimbleby is. Does Dimbleby mention it? 197 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,040 Actually, he says. He asked him why, Why, You know, 198 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,400 why did you choose that? I think they ask every guest to 199 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,080 use a piece of music. And yeah, he explains. 200 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,560 He explains why, which I think is very Yeah, I'd see the tie in 201 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,640 with Spike. Spike, why did you choose that 202 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,400 music to start the program? I like that. 203 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,600 I like the music itself, but I also like the fact that he was 204 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:10,120 the first man to make it appear that you didn't have to be very, 205 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,800 very serious in your approach to classical music. 206 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,320 He used to put funny titles like Music for Half a Pair and a 207 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,960 Small Dog and invite a very nice piece of music to it. 208 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,240 This is Sati. Sati. 209 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,480 Is is it? Is it a state of mind, that 210 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,560 music which you aspire? To I must admit I heard the 211 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,960 music first before I knew of the man's personality, and the music 212 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,400 I found very soothing, relaxing, something that I crave. 213 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,720 Spike's in a certain frame of mind. 214 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,760 Clearly, he's not wacky talk show guest Spike Milligan. 215 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,640 No, the the sort that the sort that comes barrelling on to 216 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,520 Parkinson 100 miles an hour, grinning and blowing raspberries 217 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,440 and and pulling his trousers down and doing all that sort of 218 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:55,720 thing. He's not that. 219 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,240 He's he's, yeah. He's a much more composed Spike. 220 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,640 He's he's not playing up for the camera, is he really? 221 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,680 No. And and you know what I find 222 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:06,240 beautiful? But and it is beautiful and 223 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,480 it's, it's, it's the correct word to use. 224 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,920 What I find beautiful about this is there's, there's almost a 225 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,120 tranquility and a, a gentleness about this. 226 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,440 And it's quite shocking because it's lovely to view and it's not 227 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,960 what you expect. And I just thought, wow, this, 228 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,240 this is quite powerful. He's not angry. 229 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,400 No, he he's a little bit, he gets a little bit irked later on 230 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,600 in this episode. He doesn't let that get to him, 231 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,120 which is quite interesting. He kind of brushes it off quite 232 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,200 quickly, but he's also very introspective, which I guess is 233 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:51,400 is ideal for this this show. Oh, he's, he's totally in the 234 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,080 right frame of mind for this. Yeah. 235 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,360 And I don't, that must have been more luck than design, you know, 236 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:05,120 And I'd love to know where he was on the scale of the black 237 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,840 dog that is always on his shoulder. 238 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:13,000 I, I, you know, I'd love to know that, but I absolutely, I loved 239 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:13,960 it. I thought it was. 240 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,360 I think it's a great interview. Yeah, David Dimbleby describes 241 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,840 him as as actor, goon, singer, musician, author, playwright, 242 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,440 poet, illustrator. Part time human being is what? 243 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,040 It's like overdrawn at the bank. I love that. 244 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,480 Yes, yes. He mentions overdrafts were 245 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,040 being overdrawn, at least by my counting, four or five times. 246 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,840 He does now interestingly I because I was looking at the 247 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,360 time frame as well. And you're right about G6. 248 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,480 Wasn't this when he did the great McConnell as well? 249 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,000 Yeah, that was that would have been, Yeah, because he's got the 250 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,800 beer. Yeah, this, it would have been 251 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,800 around the same. I think that came out in 70. 252 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,080 Four who did it? I just. 253 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,320 Very limited, maybe 75. We've covered it for God's sake. 254 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,600 I can't remember. Because I was just thinking, 255 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,760 because you, you're saying about the Q series, if that is the 256 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,680 case and he's just done that or, and it's about to come out. 257 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,840 And then of course you've, you're talking about the melting 258 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:24,960 pot. So how? 259 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,480 And he does mention later on, you know, about the pressure and 260 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,200 when people say, you know, I used to get phoned up and so I 261 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:33,800 want, I want a script in an hour. 262 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,880 So I wonder whether. This whole overdrawn at the bank 263 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,120 is just giving us a little window into what's going on 264 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,600 because obviously later on he does talk about an advert so. 265 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,280 Well, the the yeah, here. Here we go, though, because The 266 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:55,640 thing is, what was it, 64? I want to say 196364? 267 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,280 He gives an interview to, I think the Express. 268 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,520 Yeah. And it's he's very bitter and 269 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,280 he's very cheesed off at the world in general, shall we say? 270 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,800 OK. And he's talking about, and he's 271 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,960 basically, and I'm just paraphrasing here, but the, the 272 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,000 whole tenor of the the interview is that he can't get work and 273 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:24,000 he's skint and he needs money. And he's, you know, people have 274 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,160 moved on to the next big thing and he's been forgotten. 275 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,240 This is now he's 63. But in that sort of 12 month 276 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,920 period, he'd made two films, I think certainly one film in 277 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,040 which he starred. He'd he'd done countless 278 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,960 television appearances, He'd written Cocoon the bed sitting 279 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,440 room had been staged for the first time. 280 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,760 He never stopped working. If anything, he was probably 281 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,320 working harder than he was during, you know, the 50s and 282 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,880 the goons. But he's always pleading poverty 283 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,400 and he's always, he's always saying he's unemployable and 284 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,079 he's not saying that here, but he is. 285 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,960 There's always these little cracks about being overdrawn at 286 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,599 the bank, which is kind of like his default Grumble, if you 287 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,359 like. I suppose it's that constant 288 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:19,359 pressure, isn't it? You know, being self-employed 289 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,000 myself, it's, it's constantly with you. 290 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:29,080 And if your money drops at a certain point, you think I, I 291 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,720 need the next job, where's the next job? 292 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,920 And it probably is there, You know, I'm thinking about, well, 293 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:42,160 when I was an actor and now just doing other self-employed work, 294 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:49,240 it's it gets to the point where you can't feel as though you 295 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,560 have a regular steady income because it's contract after 296 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:59,080 contract after contract. And it's very, you know, very 297 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,360 unsettling because it isn't regular. 298 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:07,320 And so I, I sort of identify what he's staying there. 299 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,920 And for those of you that are listening who are self-employed 300 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:17,240 or, you know, freelance, you, you probably may get the, the 301 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,760 hang of that of what is being said because it's this lack of 302 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,040 stability, even though work's coming in. 303 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,160 So that may be it, that may be it. 304 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:31,680 That's, you know, it might have had a dip because he's at a four 305 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,040 count for a, you know, a new car or something and thinking, well, 306 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,800 I wasn't budgeting for that. So now I've got to write a bit 307 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,560 more of now I've got to find some more work. 308 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,840 Oh, it's an odd, actually. I, I think he had some tax 309 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,480 problems around this time as well, from memory, I'm sure. 310 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,760 And, and that may have contributed to him taking on 311 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,800 work. For example, the advert that he 312 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,200 talked about later. He took took that on, I think 313 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,280 partly to, to solve his problems with the online revenue. 314 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,480 He's also probably a little bit a little bit sort of feeling he 315 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,520 had to compete with Peter Sellers, who wasn't short of 316 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,600 you, Bob, let's face it. True. 317 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,040 Yeah, because they were quite, they were, I mean, they were 318 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,160 always close, but they'd been working quite closely on a 319 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,400 couple of films around this time. 320 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,800 Great Mcgonigal and Ghost in the Noonday Sun. 321 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,440 He had no sense of humour whatsoever. 322 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,600 I can't remember him ever having any sense of humour at that 323 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,360 time. So he obviously got it from his 324 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,040 father, who was a great comedian. 325 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,360 He was rather quiet, very friendly. 326 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:40,680 He had quite a lot of friends and I won't say he had a 327 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,840 particular sense of humour at that time. 328 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:49,240 He didn't. And he's very fond of books and 329 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:50,560 also loved animals. It's. 330 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,520 Rather striking that you had no sense of humour as a child, Is 331 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,080 she right, do you think? It's an amazing shock to hear 332 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,480 that I'm not thinking very quickly. 333 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,000 I think perhaps she was right. I was a very sort of serious 334 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,800 kid. I think, yes, very sensitive. 335 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,600 I don't think I perhaps she was right, yes, or that, or she 336 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:17,880 didn't have a sense of humour. The first taped interview with 337 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:21,160 with someone who knows Spike. It's actually his Aunt Eileen. 338 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,360 That's right, yeah. And Spike looks quite surprised 339 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:29,480 to see her, to see her on tape. And she just recalls him in 340 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,720 India as a child. And, and very, very matter of 341 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,800 fact, he just says I don't remember him having a sense of 342 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,720 humour at all. Yes, but isn't his? 343 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,920 Isn't his comeback brilliant when he says perhaps she didn't 344 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,640 have one? That's right. 345 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:44,560 I love that. That's right. 346 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,040 But then, yeah. But then he then he concedes 347 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,000 that she's probably right. Exactly. 348 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000 He says he he described himself as a as a rather overwrought 349 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,520 child. It it it wasn't until maybe the 350 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,560 age of 14 that he began to get a little bit strange and maybe 351 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:58,960 develop a bit of a sense of humour. 352 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,600 What was your? What was your? 353 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,920 Because obviously he's talking about India there and his child. 354 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:10,240 What was your impression just in that little section of Spike as 355 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,720 a child? It was clearly extremely happy 356 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,040 time for him and you get the feeling he misses it. 357 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:22,040 I'm sure he does miss it because he, when he talks about he, he 358 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,520 was brought up in a very gentle, predominantly female atmosphere. 359 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,760 He went to a conference with a lot of girls. 360 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,960 There was, he said there was no, no trauma. 361 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,360 They had servants. There was a lot of sunlight, a 362 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,840 lot of running and swimming. It sounds like he enjoyed every 363 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,640 minute of it virtually. And the sale, I don't know about 364 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:50,840 you, but I, I did think, I think you were quite a serious, but 365 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:56,760 fun loving young young boy. Not, you know, PO faced. 366 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:02,800 I don't mean that, but he just had, I mean, what was it that 367 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,480 mentioned something he said? I didn't think about it and I 368 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:12,360 just, I, when he's talking, I just got a little window and 369 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,240 even the way he was, because he's obviously reflecting on it. 370 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,800 I thought, I can almost see you as a, as a young boy here as 371 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,200 he's reminiscing and it sounds absolutely idyllic. 372 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:29,280 You know, this, this young Milligan's life, you know, and 373 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:34,680 he, he talks later on as, as we know, he, he talks about being 374 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,160 an adult and maybe he shouldn't have grown up and, and I and 375 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,080 that ties in with what he said right at the beginning. 376 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,400 I get the feeling he was maybe more innocent than most teenage 377 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,800 boys would have been. Because when he talks about 378 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,520 arriving in England for the first time and he says that the 379 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,520 Thames is swaved in like a thick fog. 380 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,200 And then the fog lifted and there was his first sight of 381 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,120 England, very grey and dull. And, and then he says, and then 382 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:13,160 he said, this is the thing. He says there was a rose on the 383 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,080 deck. Oh, it's a lovely story. 384 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,080 And he he threw it down to the crew and one of them just picked 385 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,080 it up and threw it in the water, which is pretty much his 386 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,560 introduction to the English. And that just that just speaks 387 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,840 to Spike's incurable romantic. It does. 388 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,840 Well, he's very romantic in this and the pictures that he paints, 389 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,560 such as that one is, is actually gorgeous. 390 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:43,240 Yeah, there's there's the poet heart there and we're and we're 391 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,280 seeing it. You know, that's why I think 392 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,360 this is very revealing interview. 393 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,600 Not for scandal. I don't mean that. 394 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,000 I mean just revealing what spikes thoughts are. 395 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,640 And I think it's the only time in any interview that I've seen 396 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:04,280 with him that we get a slight glimpse into how he sees the 397 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,320 world and how he would like. To see the world. 398 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,360 And there's and he's he's not 100% serious in this during this 399 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:12,960 interview. He's cracking gags here and 400 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,120 there. He's cracking jokes and he's 401 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760 trying to sometimes undermine the conversation. 402 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,160 Yeah. Or move or move the conversation 403 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,000 on with a gag or a crack or a quip or something. 404 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,560 But we see much, much more of the the real Spike Milligan, I 405 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,880 think, rather than the showman. Yes, Yeah. 406 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,160 And, and I think what just talking about this childhood, 407 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,680 even up to the war, one thing that hadn't really occurred to 408 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,440 me, although I'd, I think I'd always kind of in my head, I'd 409 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,600 known this, but because it's so obvious there was 2, There's two 410 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,600 Spike Milligan's. Well, there was the, there's, 411 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,920 there's the Spike Milligan post World War 2 and everything that 412 00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:00,200 was bound up in that, including being blown up and and suffering 413 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,360 from PTSD, although you know, they wouldn't have called it 414 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,040 that then. But you've got you've got you've 415 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,360 got the post war Spike Milligan and you've got the pre war 416 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,320 Terence Milligan. And I think those are two very, 417 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,520 very different people. Very much so. 418 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,040 Very much so. And, you know, when he's talking 419 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:26,560 about that, it's almost like he separates the two, which, again, 420 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:34,160 I think is is quite a revealing thing to have to, you know, to 421 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,960 have so much rights. Though he doesn't speak in the 422 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,800 third person, when he's reflecting, it's almost as 423 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,520 though he is talking about somebody else. 424 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,400 Yeah, Yeah. And he talks about he left 425 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,960 school at 15. He regretted. 426 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,200 Yeah. Also, he said he regretted he 427 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,240 regretted not going to university. 428 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,840 I'm glad he didn't because I don't think we would have had 429 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,960 the freedom that he gave us in what he wrote. 430 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,160 And it may have got bogged down in all of that. 431 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,840 But then again, we're talking about Terrance. 432 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,880 We're not talking about Spike, which would have been very 433 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,680 interesting to see what had happened, what would have 434 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,360 happened. But then we have John Entrebus. 435 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,680 I think Spike found that the the, the German army in the war 436 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,280 less of a threat then he finds the income tax people and the, 437 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,680 and the accountants and the overdrafts of of today. 438 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,680 I mean, they're, they're more abstract and vague and there's 439 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,200 never seems to be a release from them. 440 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,240 And I think this is how Spike feels in in the army, you had 441 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,400 your your, your pay, you had your, your uniforms, your meals 442 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,520 provided you had your comradeship, you had the ever 443 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,040 present risk of death. But perhaps that was the thing 444 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,640 that would least worry Spike. And I think he finds civilian 445 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,360 life much more worrying than than being in Africa or Italy. 446 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,720 What's your comment? That's a brilliant analysis of 447 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,840 what life is like. Yes, roll on World War 3. 448 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,480 So righteous I suddenly realise you can get to grips with the 449 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,680 enemy, but you can't get to grips with civilian life. 450 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,880 Overdraft. What can you do with about an 451 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,400 overdraft? No, take it down on a piece of 452 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,080 string or keep it in a cage. And I mean. 453 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:16,480 What I jotted down about that, I just thought he's got it meaning 454 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:22,120 that, yeah, what he says and he comes on twice and what he says 455 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:29,480 is almost as though he has the best insight into Spike. 456 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,520 But he also doesn't become too personal. 457 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,800 And he hits. I just think he hits the beat 458 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,200 really well. And you can see that, you know, 459 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,680 Spike quite enjoys seeing him there on the TV screen. 460 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,280 That's not talking about him. And he makes him laugh, which is 461 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,560 great. I think Spike says roll on World 462 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,000 War 3. World War 3. 463 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,040 Brilliant, but but thinks it's a perfect analysis. 464 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,240 He he he is absolutely bought into that. 465 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,240 Yeah. And I wonder whether that is. 466 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,240 Yeah. I mean, we, we come to learn 467 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,640 because Spike more or less acknowledges it, that yeah, 468 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,000 Spike was happier, happiest, most content. 469 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,720 Maybe during the war, maybe we think. 470 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,600 So, and do you know what I it's interesting, isn't it? 471 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,920 Because he talks about his childhood, then there's the war 472 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,000 and there's a structure with that. 473 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,240 So the childhood, he knew what he was getting, not so much when 474 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,800 he came to England. I'm thinking, what is this 475 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,560 place? What am I doing here? 476 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,920 And then he's in the army and it becomes a structure. 477 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,840 There are people there that will have certain things to do, 478 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,760 maybe, you know, like his home life. 479 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,200 And so it's almost like it clicks back into what he had 480 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,480 before he moved to England. That was my impression. 481 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,480 Yeah, well, if you think about it, so he's born 1918 and the 482 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:05,440 1st 14 years of his life, can't quite remember when he came over 483 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,960 to England with the family. But you know, let's say the 1st 484 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,480 1213 years of his life, he's living in relative comfort, 485 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,040 relative luxury. He's got servants it, the sun's 486 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,800 always shining. He's living in a very harmonious 487 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,560 atmosphere, very much sort of female dominated environment. 488 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:33,040 I know his mother's a bit distant emotionally, but he, he 489 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,120 seems to have had a idyllic childhood. 490 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,920 And they cut and then he's got the complete culture shock 491 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,720 coming to England and the, the, the grey and the cold and the 492 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:41,600 wet. Yeah. 493 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:48,320 And then, what, 5 or so years later, he suddenly plunged into 494 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,800 this. OK, He, he had a couple of years 495 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,320 training or pretty much, you know, the, the phony war and all 496 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:55,600 the rest of it. You know, he was in Bexhill. 497 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,400 He wasn't actually seeing active service. 498 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,920 But but still, you know, the, the war must have been a 499 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,640 complete rug pull in terms of what he was, what he was used 500 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,480 to. He wasn't. 501 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,920 You know, it's a second jolt. If you think about it, it was 502 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,320 roughly about five years. What you know what horrendous 503 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,240 thing and another jolt from you know, moving from India, going 504 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:24,160 to live in England, trying to get settled war moving away, you 505 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,840 know it's. Yeah. 506 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaks of several jobs. He volunteered to stay on in the 507 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,040 army until 46 rather than be de mobbed in 45 because he liked 508 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,800 the security of the army. And he said he suffered, he 509 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,240 suffered army discharge withdrawal symptoms ever since 510 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,760 he left it. He said it was very safe, very 511 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,280 funny, and if you don't get killed, very secure, yeah. 512 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,040 Yeah, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. 513 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,280 The Army. Yeah. 514 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,520 Yeah. And he does speak fondly. 515 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,120 Does speak. I mean, we'll look, look at the 516 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,920 books as well. You know, there's a lot of 517 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,480 detail in there. And some people wouldn't even 518 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,240 bother. They wouldn't want to. 519 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,920 They wouldn't want to talk about any of that coming out of. 520 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,480 And it's very difficult for us to understand, obviously. 521 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,520 But Spike, no warts and all, we'll talk about the war. 522 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Well, how many families are there that had or have a 523 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,280 grandfather who would never talk about the war? 524 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,360 Oh, it's so calm, so common. Yeah. 525 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,200 So again, you know, there's something that he's just. 526 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,280 No, this has happened. I'm telling him. 527 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,680 Yeah, you mentioned the books, the memoirs. 528 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,840 Yeah, David, David Dimbleby indicates his what he believes 529 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,280 is Spikes lack of respect for the officers as set out in the 530 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,480 memoirs. Yeah, and and Spike doesn't 531 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680 recognise this. No, he's quite shocked, doesn't 532 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:53,880 he? He's quite shocked. 533 00:31:53,880 --> 00:32:00,560 And he said with them again, David, look, and you think, 534 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,400 well, yeah, I mean, that's that's interesting. 535 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,480 How how did, how did Dimbleby see that? 536 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,280 Did he read them properly? I mean, I know journalists have 537 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,920 to skim through things, but yes, he's shocked. 538 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,960 He's absolutely shocked. No, no, I don't. 539 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,680 I don't think so. Yeah, I know Spike can be, could 540 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,960 be disingenuous and contradictory and all the rest 541 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,600 of it. And there were some officers, 542 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,000 you know, the, the the, the stupid officers that, that that 543 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,760 would get criticism in the memoirs. 544 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,440 But then Spike says, look, he, you know, there was a, there was 545 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,800 a large number of of officers that he absolutely respected. 546 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,040 He says Major Chater Jack, Yeah, he's almost, he's almost put out 547 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:51,160 by the, by the, the accusation. It's I guess I I suppose he 548 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,960 takes the piss out of the institution of the army in 549 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,560 general, just like he'd take the piss out of any institution. 550 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,920 Yeah. And I wonder whether that's 551 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,280 where Dimbleby gets the wrong end of the stick from. 552 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,480 I think that's quite. Quite. 553 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,360 Yeah, with with its rules and regulations. 554 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,320 Having said all that, sounds like Spike loved the the rules 555 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,480 and regulations. Oh yeah. 556 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,480 Because he knew where he was. And and and says that in the 557 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,680 interview, yeah. Yeah, did I take the Mickey out 558 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,080 of the officers? Must have been a lie. 559 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,480 No, I'm certain I didn't. David, read it again. 560 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,080 Read Volume 3. When I'll write it all out, I'll 561 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,760 say I love my officers. Do we get an another person on 562 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,360 the on the TV? It's Jimmy Grafton. 563 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,440 Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy Grafton, King of the Goons and The Voice. 564 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,200 Of sanity. Yes, Keith of the Voice of 565 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,440 Converse. Converse. 566 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,200 Come on, Jimmy, hurry up. The last bus goes at 10:30. 567 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,720 He's looked at the world and decided that it's people with 568 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,200 idiots, and therefore he's created his own world of idiots 569 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,520 in an extreme form. And if you think of the 570 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:57,400 characters in the Goon Show, you have Grit Pipe Thin who was a 571 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:02,960 supercilious idiot. You have Henry and Minnie Crum 572 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:09,080 who are aging, dodgering idiots. You have Moriarty who is a a 573 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,360 teeth gnashing, incompetent, frustrated plotter. 574 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:20,560 You have the child idiot Blue Bottle, always victimized. 575 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,440 And you have Eccles, who I think is the nearest thing to what you 576 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:32,560 might say is Spike's own. It a very simple, uncomplicated 577 00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:37,760 character who doesn't want to be burdened with the responsibility 578 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,520 of thinking and just wants to be happy and enjoy himself. 579 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,480 And I think that's fundamentally his Spike. 580 00:34:46,679 --> 00:34:49,800 I've always told him that I think that Eccles is the true 581 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,880 Milligan and the rest is just a a cover. 582 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,520 I'm sorry, is he right? I'm saying he's right. 583 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,720 Yes, yes, that's it, man. You know, I don't want to know 584 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,760 about thinking and all that thing about earning money. 585 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,520 I just want to be an idiot. Oh, I said to my up to my neck 586 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,600 in a bucket of custard. And enjoy it, you know. 587 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,960 Do you see? Do you see all the rest of the 588 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,600 world as idiots, everybody else as idiots? 589 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,360 And David? It's not looking at them as 590 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,360 being rude because they're idiots. 591 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,280 But I think society, we are idiots, yes, We're a very 592 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,840 vicious form of idiots, You know, I don't think man is a 593 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,880 success at all. He never really improved himself 594 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,120 once he came out of the swamp, you know. 595 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,720 That's interesting, isn't it? Because you know, I said about 596 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:43,840 Giant Chorus getting it, and here we have somebody who 597 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:50,760 obviously, by the way that he's talking about Spike, just adores 598 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,360 the guy. And I think there's quite a 599 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,200 little insightful thing that he says. 600 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:05,360 Well, a couple of things about idiots and, and about the echoes 601 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,560 as well. And again, Spike just absolutely 602 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,120 agrees with him. He laughs, but he absolutely 603 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,160 agrees with him. So that's another side, isn't 604 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,280 it? Somebody else. 605 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,200 But he's seeing the more playful side of Spike and he you can 606 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,080 tell he's in awe of Spike and it's lovely. 607 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,600 Yeah. And you could argue that without 608 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,400 Jimmy Grafton. I think Jimmy Grafton certainly 609 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,520 helped in a a great deal in terms of Spike's career. 610 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,160 Yeah, probably without Jimmy Grafton, Spike would have still 611 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:43,120 have been successful, but maybe in a different way. 612 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,120 He may, he may not have met. Well, he met, he already knew 613 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,240 seek him, but he may not have met Sellers, who knows? 614 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:55,680 And and then David Dimbleby says that Spike, in a sense, opts out 615 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,800 of the world by saying everyone else are idiots or everyone are 616 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,760 idiots, and I suppose he's including himself in that. 617 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,960 Yeah, yeah, because, well, he, he goes back, doesn't because he 618 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,680 isn't that something Jimmy Grafton also just says. 619 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,760 And he said, yeah, he's right about that. 620 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,440 More society, idiots. And I'm sure he said I'd be. 621 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,680 I'll be happier sticking my head in a pocket custard. 622 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,600 Yeah, and then he opens up more. He talks about how he got to 623 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,800 know himself better after his breakdowns and he he touches on 624 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,280 his depression, talks about his first marriage breaking up after 625 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,240 the his first major breakdown in the 50s. 626 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:42,240 And then and this is where we get the clip with Peter Sellers 627 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,920 I. Was just going to say before we 628 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,800 talk says, you know, that's a bit that I, I, I have to say, I 629 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,560 just thought David Dimbleby shut up because he asked Spike a 630 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,920 series of questions. He obviously is motoring because 631 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:02,000 he wants to get to Stella's, but I thought Spike's coming out 632 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,920 with some really interesting stuff. 633 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,880 You've got an answer, but he just railroads over the answer. 634 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,720 Dimbleby doesn't really probe, no. 635 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,720 He'll ask a question, Spike will answer it, and then Dimbleby 636 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:16,920 will move on to the next question. 637 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,720 Yeah, but you are right. Yeah, but but we have Sellers on 638 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:24,920 this film set with a pink towel on his head for some reason. 639 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,360 I don't know why. I was trying to work out which 640 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,760 film it might have been. It may not have been a film set. 641 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,200 It might have been TV studio. I don't know. 642 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,000 But I. Wonder why the sellers just pop 643 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,200 that on his head for for. Shits and giggles. 644 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,480 Yeah, yeah. Sellers being wacky. 645 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,600 And this is the thing. Sellers. 646 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,040 I think sellers. Probably a bit of a downer and 647 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:49,600 he's probably thinking I'll sod Spike. 648 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,840 I'll I'll say what I want. I think he used to like people, 649 00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,440 but he found a great deal of disillusionment in that area and 650 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:10,280 began to take more to plants and animals and especially to 651 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,320 animals. And I think he's frightened of 652 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,600 people. Basically, he's a romantic and 653 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,800 he was very deeply in love with his first wife. 654 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:28,800 And when that began to break up and he had his illness, he 655 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:39,680 became more and more withdrawn and began basically to hate 656 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,920 women, a feeling I'm sure he has to this very day. 657 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:51,080 If I hope he's president wife, excuse me, but I'm sure she 658 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,760 would agree that I don't think he he he he really likes women. 659 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,880 And I was, I wrote down on my notes here projecting much 660 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,280 Peter, because. You know, interestingly, this is 661 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,240 what I thought. I got the feeling he's talking 662 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:09,400 about himself. I. 663 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,840 Think, and it's isn't that interesting that both of us have 664 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:18,320 got that because I 100% think that Sellers is having an event 665 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,040 and yeah, he's definitely talking about himself there. 666 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,600 Definitely, yeah. And you can see Spike just looks 667 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,520 puzzled. Yeah. 668 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:37,320 By that I have to say I thought for me that was the most hurtful 669 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,560 section. I, I winced when when I heard 670 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,120 sellers say that. And then when it pans back to 671 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,200 spike and he's looking down and he looks puzzled. 672 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:58,040 And I, I just thought that's I don't believe it and that was 673 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,880 quite hurtful. But he looks quizzical, almost 674 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,880 thinking am I, you know, am IA woman hater? 675 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,840 No, you know, you can see the cogs turning. 676 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,520 No, I suppose well, everybody breaks up with her, has a 677 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,600 marriage broken up, gets a bit bitter, but that's I mean, so I 678 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,720 say human beings. I don't hold it. 679 00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:24,480 No why I my first wife was a very fine woman and I was in the 680 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,920 middle of a terrible nervous breakdown and I was I was awful. 681 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,880 I was must have been actually abominable and she couldn't 682 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,440 stand it. That's all she left. 683 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,120 And it's one of those things of unfortunate facts of life that 684 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,760 happened. Tragic thing to happen. 685 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,720 Anyhow, no, I don't hate women. No, you don't take one. 686 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:45,160 No, I don't take that. One, he said that I'm sure I was 687 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,560 calling to my first wife and he, he says a very telling thing. 688 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,600 He goes on again, I think this is quite, quite deep that he 689 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,360 goes into and it's another window into into what he's 690 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,920 thinking when you know that he's talking about the break up of 691 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,560 the marriage. And he says, she says that he 692 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,440 was, he changed, he was different and he he said I was 693 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,320 different. It was, it was true. 694 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,960 And he and then he says it was a tragedy because of his 695 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,640 breakdown. And I think that's really, 696 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,760 really revealing and coming off the back of. 697 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,480 Of. What Sellers said. 698 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,640 I mean, we probably wouldn't have got that if Sellers hadn't 699 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,080 have said it. So there's there's the plus, but 700 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:40,240 it's a bit of a roller coaster, just those couple of minutes of 701 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:45,400 the hearing sellers and then having spikes thoughts about it. 702 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,840 Yeah, I think he genuinely felt sorry for his first wife, felt 703 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,560 sorry for the way he treated her, for the way it had turned 704 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,560 out. But but I think more he was 705 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:03,440 upset about the way it affected the children, which then David 706 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,880 Dimbleby asks if he finds the company of animals and children 707 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,240 more agreeable and Spike concurs and says child, especially 708 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:12,720 children, and then they become adults and they get jobs for the 709 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:15,720 sake of money and they try to get on and they stop being 710 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,520 agreeable. Yeah, and that's when he says 711 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,080 about the Aborigines as well. You know, he, he, he loves that 712 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,240 because he he said about that. They're grown up children. 713 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,320 They retain that, which I thought was, oh, that's, that's 714 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,320 interesting. That's really interesting, Your 715 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,240 insight. And of course he would have 716 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:36,440 known, wasn't he? Because he would have, you know, 717 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,360 he spent a lot of his time in Australia. 718 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:44,440 So he would have gone out and, and met people, especially the 719 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:45,520 Aborigines. Yeah. 720 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:49,520 Throughout this interview he keeps harking back. 721 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,600 When he's talking about the present, he tends to be talking 722 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,880 about negative circumstances. So he talks about that he can't 723 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,480 face up to major adult difficulties. 724 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,400 He locks himself up in rooms for days and listens to classical 725 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,040 music and reads books. And I suppose what you would say 726 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,080 these days decompresses that way. 727 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,080 But then he's always thinking back to his childhood more and 728 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,720 more, and he dreams of being a child again. 729 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:15,560 Like piece of pan. He wishes he never grew up. 730 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,640 Yeah. And it's nice then, isn't it? 731 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,200 Because then he starts talking about Jane and she's running 732 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,440 around the house. There's always laughter and 733 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,760 laughing. That's right and. 734 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:25,760 I'm. With, that's right, with the. 735 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,480 Children, you know, her friends. So it is. 736 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:34,200 He's very, it's almost like he's looking into the horizon just 737 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,240 thinking about that. And. 738 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,000 But again, draws a beautiful picture. 739 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,560 You can see it. You can just picture it, you 740 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,480 know. And how much he wishes that he 741 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,000 could have that innocence that Jane had at that time. 742 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,440 Yeah. It's lovely. 743 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:52,640 Absolutely lovely. There's another face on the 744 00:44:52,640 --> 00:45:00,320 screen and it's it's it's Judith Craig, God bless him, who was 745 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,240 stage manager on the bed sitting room production. 746 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,000 And I had to, I had to rewind this and watch it a couple of 747 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,840 times to try and get my head around what she was saying. 748 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,520 She she starts out by saying that she adores Spike, but she 749 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,160 thinks he can be cruel as well as kind. 750 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,640 And she tells the story of an understudy who who was in spikes 751 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,080 under study on the bed sitting room spike was, I don't know, 752 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,360 ill or wasn't able to turn up for a week or something. 753 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,960 And. That's right, yeah. 754 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,960 This understudy had a chance to go on in his absence. 755 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,720 And although she doesn't explain it clearly, it would appear that 756 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,600 that Judith Craig sent this understudy a telegram and some 757 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,080 whiskey as if it had come from Spike, wishing him well, wishing 758 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,680 the understudy well. And the understudy was so 759 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,760 thrilled. He went around the whole cast, 760 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,040 you know, telling everybody, showing them the telegram. 761 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,800 And then when Spike returned, I guess it's understood, he 762 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,360 thanked him. And Spike kind of said, well, I 763 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,640 didn't send that. I didn't send that telegram, and 764 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,480 I didn't send the whiskey. And Judith Craig says the young 765 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,240 man was destroyed as a result of that. 766 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,640 And I just think, and Spike looks really confused by that. 767 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,040 He says I don't remember that. And he looks, he actually looks 768 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,880 disappointed. You can tell his mood is 769 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,440 darkened slightly. And I think for a start, Spike 770 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:34,920 was telling the truth. He would. 771 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,320 He'd come back from being away. This understudy, it's come up to 772 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,200 him and thanked him for something he had no knowledge 773 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,840 of. What did Judith Craig expect him 774 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,120 to do? She should have. 775 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,640 She should have quartered him prior to that and then told him 776 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,240 what she'd done. Yeah, and it's interesting, 777 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:55,720 isn't it, because he does, he looks, he looks so disappointed. 778 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,760 I mean, I, I can't fathom why she decided to tell that story 779 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,320 out of all the stories in the 1st place. 780 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,920 But he looks so disappointed. And and he, he just very 781 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,800 innocently and childlike to Dimbleby. 782 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,360 He just said I was only telling the truth. 783 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,760 And then he, you know, he, he thinks for a second and he just 784 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:23,120 says, you know, about truth. It, it can be cruel, can't it? 785 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,000 And it's just because he doesn't know what to say. 786 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,760 And I don't blame him. I don't think, apart from 787 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,800 swearing at the screen, I don't think I, I would know what to 788 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,320 say. I mean, why, why on earth, out 789 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:41,320 of all the stories, of all the memories, the good times that 790 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,560 you would have had doing that production, do you come out with 791 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,160 that story? I don't get it. 792 00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:51,960 Yeah. And he actually says she's, 793 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:58,600 she's alarmed me now because it's on about how he, you know, 794 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,520 supposedly how he was and he can't recall it. 795 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,160 He can't recall it at all. David Dimbleby goes on to ask 796 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:10,240 him if he's ever violent and he says, well, he's never hit his 797 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,800 children or his wife. Talks about hitting some lad 798 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:18,360 called Tom Conlon and and someone in Dublin who'd heckled 799 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,520 him and starts to laugh at this memory. 800 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,280 But then obviously this Judith Craig thing has got under his 801 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,880 skin. Yeah, because Dimbleby goes on 802 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,520 to ask him if he's difficult to work with. 803 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,200 Does his colleagues find him difficult? 804 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,520 Are you? Are you a difficult person to 805 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,000 work with? Do your colleagues find you 806 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,560 difficult to work? With I don't know. 807 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,600 I don't know. I don't know. 808 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,480 I hope I'm not. You know, I work very hard and 809 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,080 like to rehearse very hard. And I'm always getting at people 810 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,640 saying do it this way, do that, we do this way. 811 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,400 And sometimes I say, for Christ's sake, you know, let me 812 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:56,280 do it my way. Do you, do you suffer from 813 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,760 actors prima donner ishness that sort of quality? 814 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,800 Are you very finicky and fussy and prickly when you're working? 815 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,000 So these are the questions you should ask other people like 816 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,360 Judith Craig. You know, she's alarmed me now 817 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,520 as to what I might be like. I don't think so. 818 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,240 I turn up on time. I run my lines. 819 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:16,200 Dick Lester might have told you if I was a prima Donna. 820 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,240 I don't think I have. I don't think so. 821 00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:26,280 He talks about actually when he demands or demanded things and 822 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,400 wanted better, you know for sound effects, etcetera. 823 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,080 And they that they weren't right. 824 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:37,680 And and interestingly, that that actually reminded me that little 825 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,360 section. And I thought, well, yeah, you 826 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,680 fought for this and you changed it because I I love the way 827 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,920 that, you know, the sound effects in the goons became 828 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,880 another character. They were integral. 829 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,800 And, you know, he he pushed and he talks about pushing for 830 00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,600 better in in that interview. And it reminds me of, you know, 831 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,800 when he, he wants a sound like it's custard in a sock. 832 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:11,360 So he gets all the, the rubbish versions and, and he has, you 833 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,400 know, a hammer hitting custard in a sock to see what it sounds 834 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,920 like. It's constantly, constantly 835 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,800 pushing. And does that make somebody 836 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,320 difficult to work with, being a perfectionist, wanting a sound, 837 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,840 right? I don't think it does, you know, 838 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,520 I don't think it does because you need people to push those 839 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,360 batteries, you know? Absolutely. 840 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,800 And then look at The Beatles. Did you know that was in my head 841 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,360 as I was talking about it And, and you know, if they hadn't 842 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,560 have pushed, if they hadn't have gone, Let's just try this here. 843 00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,720 Can we do that? No, that that can't be done. 844 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:52,680 Let's try it. And Spike was exactly the same. 845 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,120 If you think about the sound effects being his music to 846 00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,440 accompany his writing, that's exactly what he was doing that 847 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:05,680 The Beatles did later on, you know, I see no no different 848 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,120 whatsoever. Yeah, the conversation moves on 849 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:16,000 to the boy he shot who broke into his work room at the bottom 850 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,800 of his garden, and the result of which Spike got a 12 month 851 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,640 suspended sentence. It was only like a what was it? 852 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,280 It was a air gun, air run. Yeah. 853 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,760 Yeah. And they're tiny pellets. 854 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,400 I used to have one tiny. Yeah, yeah. 855 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,120 And the the. The like in the fairs, you know 856 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:36,040 the. That's right. 857 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:37,320 Yeah. Yeah. 858 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,280 So it was a it was a 15 year old. 859 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,480 He was shot in the shoulder and he was taken to hospital and 860 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,600 they just dug a a small pallet out of his shoulder. 861 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,280 So it wasn't anything that was, you know, life threatening by 862 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,600 any means. Yeah, there was this boy, this 863 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:58,360 kid that Peter Bell I think his name was, who was constantly or 864 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,920 had been constantly breaking into the garden. 865 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:06,520 And Spike was actually, well he was charged with assault 866 00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:11,480 occasioning actual bodily harm. And he appeared at Pike at 867 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:18,120 Magistrates Court on 30th of May 1974, so literally the year 868 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:19,920 before this interview. Yes. 869 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,680 So that's fresh in the in the memory. 870 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,560 And, and the papers, yeah, but it was around the same time. 871 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,920 Talk about timing that his wife, Paddy, yes, was also, well, she 872 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,320 was in coroner's court because she had hit a man in her car by 873 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,520 accident and killed him. Do you know about this? 874 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:47,280 No, I don't. She was driving home and she, I 875 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,920 think she rounded the corner and she went into a skid and tried 876 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,760 to control it, but the car went out of control and hit an old 877 00:52:55,760 --> 00:53:00,320 man down on the pavement. And the coroner recorded a 878 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,200 verdict of accidental death. So nothing came of it. 879 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,800 But the old man, Mr. Stapleton, died in hospital as a result of 880 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,600 it. So he talks about this shooting, 881 00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,840 this boy, and then he said he'd shoot a cat if it went after the 882 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,640 birds. And as a result, he'd been 883 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,920 forced to resign from some of the animal groups and charities. 884 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:27,760 He's involved with yeah, yeah. But isn't it interesting that he 885 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,960 then goes into detail to say how much a cat over a certain time 886 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,560 can destroy the bird life in a garden and knows exactly what 887 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:41,360 he's talking about. And yes, in his mind, he's 888 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,640 justifying, he's justifying it. But. 889 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:49,400 But it's it's interesting, you know, there we go. 890 00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,920 I'm I'm an animal lover, but that I'm more concerned about 891 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:58,600 how the bird population will potentially suffer because of an 892 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,760 action of 1 cat. So I, you know, shot it up the 893 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,720 arse. And it was his cat though, 894 00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:06,000 wasn't it? Because he said, he said, I'm 895 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,400 sure it was his cat. He said I feed it from one end. 896 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,440 That's right, Shoot it up another. 897 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,040 Yeah. So it's he just go. 898 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,280 I love the fact that he justifies. 899 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,080 No, there's a pecking order, birds, cat, humans. 900 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,480 So yeah, yeah, interesting story. 901 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,320 And but again, you know, he's he's right in there. 902 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,440 No. Do you know, and he's he's 903 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,520 great. You see these flashes off. 904 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,440 Look, here's the information, you know, and being very 905 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,320 serious. And then he's obviously he he 906 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,440 pulls back. I think he's been very restraint 907 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,640 as well in this interview. It's a strange mood. 908 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,320 It's a strange mood, a lovely mood. 909 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,920 I like it because he's just controlling everything. 910 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,120 He's not going off on a tangent too much on. 911 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,840 Any he's not. He's not railing against 912 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,240 everything. No, no. 913 00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:56,520 Which he's saying and saying because because he he would have 914 00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,760 a tendency often to say he was right and everyone else was 915 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:00,800 wrong. Yeah, yeah. 916 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,600 He's very measured. That's another put here, down 917 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,480 here, measured. He's measured in this, this 918 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:08,840 interview. That's why I think it. 919 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,560 I think it's fascinating interview. 920 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,760 We get a return from Grafton Return appearance Jimmy Grafton. 921 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,560 Oh, yes, yeah. Who describes Spike as a court 922 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:25,080 jester and asks to what extent is the eccentricity involuntary 923 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,160 or deliberate? And is he using it to shield 924 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,600 himself from those who would discipline him or try to use him 925 00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,000 or put him into circumstances that he wants no part of? 926 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:37,680 And he wonders where the line is. 927 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:43,800 And Spike addresses this and says feels he is unbalanced and 928 00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,440 and can't control his personality. 929 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,520 But he says he fights authority and says you can't do that by 930 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,840 being mad, you need great control. 931 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,200 And also says he'll never avoid major responsibilities like 932 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:57,760 looking after his family. Yeah. 933 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:02,880 Oh, he's very, he's very principled and, and in fact, 934 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,320 when he talks about his principles quite soon after that 935 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,760 doesn't even want to, he speaks. About Oh, yes, yeah, that's 936 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,200 right. So have you, do you know about 937 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,400 this advert that he's talking about? 938 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,920 I know it's interesting. I thought I saw the advert on 939 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,280 something else. I didn't really think much of 940 00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,680 it, as in, I didn't think, oh, you know, it's just like, oh, 941 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,160 there's Spider Man doing an advert, Peter Sellers. 942 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,240 And then, of course this interview then comes and I 943 00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:37,520 thought, oh, is that the advert that he's thinking about? 944 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,640 Or it's one of those things I'm thinking, did I see it? 945 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:42,960 Didn't I see it? Yeah. 946 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,200 Yeah, so you're quite right. He's talking about sometimes he 947 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,040 has to put his principles aside. I don't know. 948 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,920 I don't know if he mentioned specifically, but he mentions 949 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,240 being quite high up in Ash. She's smoking organization. 950 00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,160 I'm an actor. This is a job of acting. 951 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,560 I'm promoting these cigarettes, which breaks my heart, but I'm 952 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,000 not a smoker, do I? I've got to survive in this 953 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,040 jungle, right? So I thought I've got to do this 954 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,080 commercial to pay my tax, to be law abiding. 955 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,960 At the same time, a little bit of my morality had been chipped 956 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:14,200 away and I've never got over that. 957 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,320 And yeah, he owed a lot of tax week. 958 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:21,440 So he made this cigarette advert for Benson and Hedges and it was 959 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:26,720 actually it was filmed right in the middle of him filming with 960 00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,760 Peter Sellers Ghost in the Noonday Sun. 961 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,120 Same director as well. It's Medak. 962 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:42,400 OK, so they they they filmed this this advert, both Sellers 963 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,680 and Milligan vehement anti smokers at this point. 964 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,240 OK, but he did it for the money. And by the way, we have covered 965 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,720 Ghost in the Noonday Sun on Goon Pod previously. 966 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,920 We talk extensively about the making of the advert, so please 967 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,520 check out that that that episode if you want to find out more. 968 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,760 I won't go into it now, but yes, Spike pretty much suffered a a 969 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,720 long dark night of the soul trying to reconcile his 970 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,640 principles with his need for cash often. 971 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,440 Yeah. And that's interesting because 972 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,720 he says, you know, he said I spent something like I'm 973 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,760 paraphrasing here, but I spent the night pacing in my bedroom, 974 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,400 you know, thinking about whether I should do. 975 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,240 But it's, it's interesting, isn't it? 976 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,000 You know, I need, it's basically I need the money to, to support 977 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,200 my family is, is what he's talking about. 978 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:35,440 And you know that's if your family comes first, then your 979 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:36,840 principles have to go out the window. 980 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,800 It's difficult, very difficult. And you know, you can hear it. 981 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,880 You can hear that in his voice when he's recounting it. 982 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,200 And Dimbleby asks him why he chose such a high pressure 983 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,000 career. And he says it chose me. 984 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,600 I'm stuck with it. Yeah, Yeah. 985 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,800 I think you see it's interesting about about Dimbleby because I, 986 00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,560 I think that's quite a naive question. 987 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:07,320 Am I saying that because I'm aware that, you know, being on 988 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,400 in that myself, that you don't choose things? 989 00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,560 You know, sometimes you can stumble all along and one thing 990 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,400 leads to another and and definitely, you know, it almost 991 00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:23,840 chooses you. So I found that very odd naive 992 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,960 question from Dimbleby buddy, isn't it? 993 00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,160 Isn't it round about that time again? 994 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:31,960 And I just thought, Dimbleby shut up. 995 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,200 And he goes on about, yes, it is because he's talking about the 996 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,880 high pressure and he's talking about, you know, his breakdowns 997 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:42,320 again. And I thought, you've done it to 998 00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,280 death. And I'm just wasn't interested 999 00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:53,120 in another question about Spike and his mental health because I 1000 00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,600 thought he's covered that. What else do you want to know? 1001 00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,080 Yeah, I felt I was. I mean, obviously it's early 1002 01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,080 days of Dimbleby and his interviewing technique, but I 1003 01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,960 just, I felt, you know, we've already mentioned him 1004 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:11,520 railroading sometimes and he he gets an answer, but then pushes 1005 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,160 it because it's not the answer that he wants. 1006 01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,680 And then back on the mental health. 1007 01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:25,160 And I just think Spike is more than his mental health and and I 1008 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:31,960 find sometimes on even when Spike was alive and watching 1009 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,600 interviews and it got round to his mental health, I thought, 1010 01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,520 why are we treading this this ground again? 1011 01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,040 There's more about the man. Because it's because it's 1012 01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,560 easier. It's it's more. 1013 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,000 You sell more papers by talking about torture, genius. 1014 01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:51,160 Yeah. And again, again, Spike, looking 1015 01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,560 back, always looking to the past because Didbelby's asks him if 1016 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,640 he, if he'd like to do something entirely different. 1017 01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,720 And Spike suggested like to have been an amateur archaeologist or 1018 01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:07,160 an underwater archaeologist. And he later talks about, right 1019 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,000 towards the end of the interview, he talks about or, or 1020 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,600 Dimmelby asks him what he finds the most rewarding. 1021 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:13,920 And Spike has to think about this. 1022 01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:15,960 And then he says digging in ruins. 1023 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,160 Yeah. Now do you know that what, as 1024 01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:24,520 soon as he's when he's thinking and then he comes up, I actually 1025 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,480 thought, look at him lighting up. 1026 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,920 I mean, it's, it's great. He's just, oh, if I could do 1027 01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,800 that and he just see it in his face. 1028 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,360 I mean, you see a lot in his face in this interview. 1029 01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,000 There's a lot it's. Yes, you do, and. 1030 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,080 For anybody who hasn't seen it and you want to see a different 1031 01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:49,640 side of Spike, just seek it out because it is it's it's it's a 1032 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:57,920 lovely and you really see a a decent, caring, sensitive man in 1033 01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,440 this interview. I love it. 1034 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,800 I absolutely love it. It's a brilliant interview. 1035 01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see the full gamut of 1036 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,440 emotions on his face, from delight to hilarity to 1037 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:16,880 confusion, amusement, little spark of anger here and there, 1038 01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,120 bitterness, everything. Yeah. 1039 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,520 And tranquility and it's like you say just then when he talks 1040 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,560 about digging in ruins because he mentioned specifically, I 1041 01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,520 didn't get the name of it. He mentioned some like a castle 1042 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,400 next to the mermaid. I assume that's the mermaid 1043 01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,640 theatre. You know what castle that would 1044 01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,680 be. But but he talks about that or 1045 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,160 just touches on that. And then Dimbleby says, so 1046 01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:42,560 you're not you don't find your work. 1047 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:48,480 You actually your work rewarding comedy work, I guess he means or 1048 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,040 writing. And Spike says, well, no, it's 1049 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:56,840 agony trying to write, but he's always, he's always held that 1050 01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,080 line, hasn't he? Yeah, yeah. 1051 01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,000 And he just, it's something that he knows he can do to pay the 1052 01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,640 bills. Yes, yes, you know, But if he 1053 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:11,880 was back in India playing with his mates and didn't have to do 1054 01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:16,720 any of that, that's exactly, you know, what he would want to do. 1055 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,800 But yeah, it's very telling, very telling. 1056 01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,760 Interview. If I might have stayed a jazz 1057 01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:30,040 musician, I might have. I don't think I I think I might 1058 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:35,920 have been happier not having become so profound in in myself. 1059 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,120 I'd have been very lightweight and just wanting to play the 1060 01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,480 jazz of an evening and chat up the birds, never drink a wine 1061 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,600 and go to bed. Then the next gig the next time. 1062 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:45,560 That's like a because when you're playing, it's very good. 1063 01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,320 It's therapeutic. Could you ever go back to that 1064 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,760 kind of life? I don't think so, because I'm to 1065 01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:53,880 play the trumpet. You've got to practice four or 1066 01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,040 five hours a day and I think I'm just a bit past it now. 1067 01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,160 I think so, yes. So that that's. 1068 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,680 Past it. That that kind of easy happiness 1069 01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,040 or tranquility really has eluded you. 1070 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,120 Yes it has completely. Sorry. 1071 01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,960 I remember what happiness was. I still get great glows of 1072 01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,960 warmth and satisfaction from seeing children and sunny days. 1073 01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,960 Things that are going right in the world and beautiful 1074 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:20,560 buildings get lovely warm feeling. 1075 01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,880 It's not that happiness that I hear coming from my daughter 1076 01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:25,800 when she's running up and down the hall laughing. 1077 01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,480 Spike Milligan, thank you. Thank you, David. 1078 01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,680 And then Spike, ever the showman, because the the camera 1079 01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,080 right at that moment is is shooting Spike from behind. 1080 01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:42,200 And he he turns his head with a cheeky grin, kind of winks at 1081 01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,320 the camera and says, thank you, David. 1082 01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,400 And the credits roll. Very cheeky. 1083 01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:49,280 I love it. I love it. 1084 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,560 Very playful at the end. Very playful. 1085 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:59,680 But, you know, a nice way to end because sometimes, you know, you 1086 01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,680 see, and they go thank you. And they're sitting there and 1087 01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:07,440 they anything or probably not happy or they want to say 1088 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,560 something else. Something hasn't gone right. 1089 01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:13,440 But no, that's just that playful little wink at the end. 1090 01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:15,000 Nice. And Spike. 1091 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:16,760 I like it. Yeah. 1092 01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:19,480 But it's good. It's a good interview. 1093 01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:26,120 I did dig out from the Goon Show Preservation Society newsletter. 1094 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,840 Oh yeah. Around this time there's like a 1095 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,880 three quarter page review of it and I'm not going to read it all 1096 01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,720 because it's quite lengthy, but there's a few points here. 1097 01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,240 I think it's worth mentioning that they they well, it says 1098 01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,680 it's it's soon became apparent to those of us who remember the 1099 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,880 days of John Freeman that here was a rehash of the six 1100 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,840 successful face to face series that Freeman masterminded in the 1101 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,960 50s. Which is absolutely right, 1102 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:55,400 isn't? It yes, of course it is, because 1103 01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,720 it's that's the one that sort of broke Tony Hancock. 1104 01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,200 Wasn't it? And Harding? 1105 01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:07,560 Gilbert Harding as well? Oh, right, the television and 1106 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,120 radio personality of the 50s, it says. 1107 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,640 Here it was quite obvious that David Dimbleby had strict 1108 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,680 instructions from the producer to keep a tight rein on Spike 1109 01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,280 and to resist any temptation to slip into comic asides of any 1110 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:24,000 kind. It would be rather impertinent 1111 01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,840 to a great artist and genius to start an amateur psychoanalysis 1112 01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,000 session in absentia for Spike, so we will not go far down this 1113 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:35,160 path of breakdown and depression, which did crop up 1114 01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:37,960 quite frequently there. You go look at that, yeah. 1115 01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,120 We are, however, aware of it. Perhaps we can see it in his 1116 01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,560 tragicomic eyes, especially as they begin to wander from side 1117 01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,400 to side as he wrestles with a difficult question that has 1118 01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:53,800 obviously caused him some pain. It then goes on to cite that 1119 01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,600 Judith Craig sequence and pretty much agrees with what we said. 1120 01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,960 You know, it was sufficient to put Spike on the defensive for 1121 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,400 several moments, resolved by his assertion that if the truth had 1122 01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,720 been established, then this may have been cruel, but it would 1123 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,120 not have been his fault. Totally. 1124 01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:11,680 Yeah. This is what you said. 1125 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:17,560 Yeah, they mentioned that the Peter Sellers bit and the fact 1126 01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,720 that it said he didn't seem to like women very much. 1127 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,440 This seemed to be new, a new one to Spike, and it caused them 1128 01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,240 considerable amusement. I wouldn't say amusement, I'd 1129 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,680 say more just. Bemused, I think. 1130 01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,920 I wonder whether that's a typo. Maybe. 1131 01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,080 Because yeah, no, he, he he wasn't, he wasn't at all. 1132 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:43,080 Yeah, he wasn't amused by that. And this just rounds off for 1133 01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,280 saying television interviews are good entertainment, but they 1134 01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,760 cannot and must not enable us to become too familiar with 1135 01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,680 anybody, at least nobody we hope to continue respecting and 1136 01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,560 admiring as an artist. Now that's interesting, isn't 1137 01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,560 it? Because I'm just thinking about 1138 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,240 that. Certainly because obviously it's 1139 01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,680 you know, it's the goons show appreciation. 1140 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:17,160 So whatever is seen in a particularly bad light by one of 1141 01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,840 the goons I sellers in this case may be glossed over. 1142 01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:26,279 And so that because obviously, you know, these are their 1143 01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:30,200 heroes. I think you should call people 1144 01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,279 out if you see it now, and probably you and I are seeing 1145 01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:39,640 this with a clearer eye than those at members of the 1146 01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,720 Appreciation Society at the time. 1147 01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,920 I'm sure that that'd be very different if the Appreciation 1148 01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,120 Society watched the interview now. 1149 01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:50,160 So that's interesting that that bit's glossed over. 1150 01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:59,160 And if amusement rather than what we think the amusement it 1151 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:02,319 is, is what they think, I yeah, they're seeing something that 1152 01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:04,840 isn't there. So that's, that's quite 1153 01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,120 interesting, isn't it? Yeah, I get the feeling that 1154 01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,720 certainly maybe then the GSPS, they didn't like to dwell on 1155 01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:15,840 the, the, the, the darker side or the more serious side of 1156 01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:20,200 their heroes, like you say, Obviously I'm talking Milligan 1157 01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:21,520 and Sellers chiefly. They really. 1158 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,520 Yeah, yeah, but, but, but there we go. 1159 01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:29,000 So no, look, as I say, as you say, well worth seeking out if, 1160 01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,160 if you haven't seen it, it's, it's on YouTube. 1161 01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,600 It's about 4040 odd minutes in length. 1162 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,720 Yeah, I think it is 4045, yeah. Yeah. 1163 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,359 And it's just, it gives you, if you haven't seen it, you know, 1164 01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:42,600 it'll give you a different, slightly different perspective 1165 01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,200 on Spike perhaps. I think definitely so. 1166 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:50,319 I mean, I was thinking back afterwards, after I watched that 1167 01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:55,760 and the two things that cropped up, One, I thought, OK, very 1168 01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:00,000 different to what we then became used to, you know, with him on 1169 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,920 Woken and flirting with Joanna Lumley when when she had him on, 1170 01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:06,960 you know, very, very different to those interviews. 1171 01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,040 But I'll tell you what it reminded me of, and I haven't 1172 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:17,640 done any research to see whether he was interviewed by Mavis 1173 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:20,520 Nicholson. Yeah. 1174 01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:26,040 Now it reminded me very much of that sort of interview that she 1175 01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:31,800 used to to get again, very underrated and very lost in 1176 01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,600 time. I think those interviews are but 1177 01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:41,000 she managed to get a different side out of people so I'd be 1178 01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:45,760 interested to see if there is one that she she she did with 1179 01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:49,280 Spike. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. 1180 01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,120 There were, there were many interviews with Spike in the 70s 1181 01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:54,800 into the 80s and they kind of started to drop off after that. 1182 01:10:54,800 --> 01:11:00,200 But generally speaking, you'd get Spike on form telling us 1183 01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:04,080 funny anecdotes and gags and being outrageous. 1184 01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,680 But very occasionally you'd get more introspective, more nuanced 1185 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,720 interviews of Spike where he would talk about more serious 1186 01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,920 matters and and those are just as compelling, really. 1187 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,960 Can I just say, Tyler, we have spoken about this longer than 1188 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:24,720 Dimbleby spoke to Spike, Yes. Yes, yes, absolutely. 1189 01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,760 So lately. Thank you so much. 1190 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:31,360 Brilliant. No, Thank you for inviting me. 1191 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:32,400 What? What should we do? 1192 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:33,760 Make a date for another two years. 1193 01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:35,520 I think so. And what would it be? 1194 01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,840 Another another Spike topic? Maybe the melting pot? 1195 01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:44,400 What do you reckon? I'll tell you what, that would 1196 01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:46,400 be a challenge, wouldn't it? That would be a challenge. 1197 01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,520 But it's been an absolute pleasure and you know, watching 1198 01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,600 that interview as well as you can tell, I, I loved it. 1199 01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,520 So thank you very much for asking me to, to take part in 1200 01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,440 this and talking about the interview because it's 1201 01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:03,080 absolutely fascinating. As I said, beautiful at the 1202 01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,600 beginning and it's the perfect word for it. 1203 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,480 He's he's, he's absolutely gorgeous in this. 1204 01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,080 My pleasure, Lee. It's it's been, it's been 1205 01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,520 wonderful having you on and see you again in 2026. 1206 01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:15,800 Yeah. See you then, then. 1207 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:17,640 Cheers, Tyler. Thank you.