Shooting the cat up the ass, I could do that any day if I saw
them about to kill fledglings, you know, I mean, so I would
shoot you up the ass if I saw you about to kill your
grandmother, mind you, I'd help you with some grandmothers on
the other day, but I just said I would.
I, I, it's my own cat. I mean, so it's, I can shoot him
up his ass If he's my cat, I feed the other end.
So I'm certainly he's killing birds.
You see young birds and people don't know how 1 cat can destroy
the entire Ivarian a life in 20 gardens in about two years.
He can destroy it. So I had the air gun because I
could never get to the animal in time.
And I would ping him and I got a very light pellet used to sting
him. Didn't penetrate the flesh.
But all the oh, my poor Pussycat brigade.
Never mind the rest of the world that can die.
Never mind the mangled body of little birds with their wings
torn off. That's OK.
But poor Pussycat. Oh, poor Pussycat.
Poor Pussycat. Let's have a Pussycat.
What? The.
Hello and welcome to Goompod, the only podcast in the world
that is brave enough to tackle the really big subjects that
nobody else wants to talk about, such as where does Santa Claus
go in the summer, Where does socks come from, and who is Pink
Oboe? Joining me to Mull over these
naughty questions is the actor and writer Lee Moon.
Hello, Lee. I don't know where socks come
from, but I tell you what, I don't think they get on with
each other because the amount, the amount of fallouts that
socks must have in those closed drawers because they're never a
pair. And I pull out a sock and unless
there's a lot of sock swapping going on and they have a very
active sex life in my drawers, no pun intended.
It's just I don't know. I don't know what it is and.
And oral sucks reading. So that's yeah, sucks.
Absolutely intuitive listeners, those in the know, the the
clever ones that listen to this podcast, not the not the general
rebel, but the clever ones would have picked up on the fact that
those were three goon show episode titles.
The 1st 2:00 we're from the completely forgotten series 3.
Now. None of those exist, sadly.
But Lee, it's really good to get you back on.
Thank you so much. Oh.
Pleasure, pleasure. We were chatting just
beforehand. You said.
It was what, two years since we've had a chat before?
Two years. So, so you came on because when
was it 2015, 2016, You, you 20? 15 Yeah, yeah, nearly ten years
ago. Karl Jay, you put on a stage
production of or you adapted for the stage.
The Phantom. I always do this.
I was going to say Phantom Edge the.
I thought you were the Phantom. Yeah, yes, Yeah, I did.
I did. And actually you just saying
that about the Lost episodes, and I don't think I said this
last time in order for me to extend a little bit of the
comedy of, you know, the running time for Phantom, what I
actually did was I listened to a lot of the goon shows and I
thought that's a good gag. And I took it and I thought,
well, actually, yes, I'm stealing, but I'm stealing
Spike's material to put into Spike's show.
Yeah. So some of some of the script,
obviously I had to sew some of it together, but others of it
was peppered with some of Spike's gags.
So those people who were in the know would certainly go, oh,
that's a gag from you know. But I thought, well, the scripts
are there, the humans there, Spike's not here.
So what would he do, You know, inserting a gag here and there.
So that's what I did. I actually, I actually nicked
from Spike and gave it to Spike. Absolutely, Lee.
So we had such a great chat last time, two years ago, two years
ago. Where has the time gone?
But I did want you to come back at some point and.
Thank you, thank you. I was really flattered when you
when you said and I know we've had little darts about.
I was a month, I was a month in advance for this.
When is it tonight? No, you said it's next month.
So yeah, as you can see, my my diary keeping isn't fantastic,
but we're here now, so thank you very much.
Indeed. And and we're talking about
staying on Spike, we're talking about what I would say is, and I
was talking to you prior to recording and I said this is
probably I'm struggling to think of a more telling interview with
Spike Milligan. Yes, it's the interview that
Spike conducted or at least David Dimbleby conducted with
Spike and it's called Face Your Image and it was broadcast on
Friday the 14th of March 1975 on on BBC One.
I think actually I didn't make a note of that.
I think it's no. BBC Two, I think.
BBC Two. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK. It sounds.
Yeah, it is. It is thinking about it.
It is ABBC 2. Isn't it?
Yes. It is.
It was broadcast 10:15 in the evening.
Spider Man, you know, I think he's a genius.
Mad. But a genius.
Insane. Clever, but quite insane.
Not insane, but mad. Yeah.
I don't know any of them. I must have either seen, and I
don't know whether it has been repeated or clips, you know,
people do these shows of clips of, of things.
But it's fascinating to watch in its entirety.
And I'm glad it's, I'm glad it's there.
It's been on YouTube for. Years.
Yeah, it's one of those things I I've known that it's been on
YouTube for a lot. I mean, I remember seeing it.
I don't know where I saw it. I got, I somehow got a copy of
it years and I mean back, I'm talking 20, well, 30 years ago
really, maybe more. Yeah, I got, I got a copy of it
on video and it was really, really bad. 3rd or 4th or 5th
copy of a copy of a copy, you know what I mean?
It was really bad, but I used to kind of watch that and persevere
with it, even though the sound wasn't great And but yeah, it's
not. That brilliant on YouTube
either, actually. I mean, yeah.
It's yeah. But it's I love the timecode at
the bottom. Yeah, I mean Facial Image was a
short series, I believe and and each episode David Dimbleby
would be putting quite serious questions to the likes of
Jermaine Greer, Lord Longford, Malcolm Muckridge, and he was
inviting them to also hear how people close to them thought of
them. Yes, which was which was quite
key. Remain friends.
Afterwards. Yeah, this is an odd.
Thing. It's an odd thing to do, I
think. It is odd.
And there's a few. There's, well, how many?
There's maybe five people. 5-6 people are on tape here talking
about Spike, and Spike's watching in the studio as
they're talking about him. Yeah.
And he's quite happy with a couple of them.
John Entrebus, Jimmy. Grand I think's the best,
really. He he's a bit bemused by Peter
Sellers. I have to say I've got, I've got
something. Well, we'll come onto it, but.
We'll come onto that. But there is a, there's a,
there's one guest or one person in particular who really kind of
throws the cat among the pigeons.
Judith. Yeah, which which we will come
to. Spike has shown willing.
He's come onto this television interview.
It's, it's not Parkinson, it's certainly not Russell Hardy.
It's David Dimbleby, who at this time, I don't know, was David,
David Dimbleby? What, what, what was he such as
a sort of a television journalist and what, what, what
was he doing around this time, do you know?
I think he was at this. I mean, this is very early
career for Dimbleby. I think he's just coming out of
the shadow of his dad's career and carving, carving his way
forward. He's obviously very much, the
BBC are very much trying him out because he's on BBC 2.
So I think yes, this is, this is the start of, oh, we've got a
Dimbleby and let's let's put him to use.
That's the impression that I am because it is 75.
And I don't think he would have been as big a name as he then
later came to become, especially for the BBC.
Oh absolutely. I'm just watching.
I've got, I've got the the episode playing in the
background here on silent, obviously on mute.
The budget for this must have been about 50P.
Or no. Because you've got Spike there,
they've got 22 chairs, a table in between them and an old
CRTTV. That's hilarious.
Really, it's hilarious. Yeah, to play the clips, yeah.
There's probably, there's probably a man underneath
pressing the button because there wouldn't be a remote
control, so he's underneath the telly and that's probably why.
Spike giggles. Quite a few.
Yeah. So this goes out 14th of March
75, the pilot of The Melting Pot was broadcast what, three months
later. Have you ever seen that?
No. Do you know of it?
You know of it? You do.
Yeah, yeah, yes, probably more notorious than Korean chips.
Yes, it was yes, but that that, so that's, I'm just mentioning
that that's where Spike was in his career.
And obviously Q 6 was was on the verge of being transmitted in
November. So some good stuff, some not so
good stuff. But anyway, here we go.
And I want to talk through, I don't want to go through every
single thing that Spike says here, but I I wanted to, I've
made notes of of of the whole show and I just wanted to talk
through it in general and just see what your thoughts are.
It's got it begins with a pre credit vox pop sequence with a
couple of people. In the street.
And then we get the titles and this Eric Satie music.
I don't know what the music's called.
I know the music. I always associate it with a
soap advert from television when I was a kid do.
You know, it did seem really familiar that.
Yeah, but it educated me because I didn't know who it was.
So thanks. Thanks Mike for the education.
Yeah, because that's right. Immediately the first thing that
he says to Dimbleby is. Does Dimbleby mention it?
Actually, he says. He asked him why, Why, You know,
why did you choose that? I think they ask every guest to
use a piece of music. And yeah, he explains.
He explains why, which I think is very Yeah, I'd see the tie in
with Spike. Spike, why did you choose that
music to start the program? I like that.
I like the music itself, but I also like the fact that he was
the first man to make it appear that you didn't have to be very,
very serious in your approach to classical music.
He used to put funny titles like Music for Half a Pair and a
Small Dog and invite a very nice piece of music to it.
This is Sati. Sati.
Is is it? Is it a state of mind, that
music which you aspire? To I must admit I heard the
music first before I knew of the man's personality, and the music
I found very soothing, relaxing, something that I crave.
Spike's in a certain frame of mind.
Clearly, he's not wacky talk show guest Spike Milligan.
No, the the sort that the sort that comes barrelling on to
Parkinson 100 miles an hour, grinning and blowing raspberries
and and pulling his trousers down and doing all that sort of
thing. He's not that.
He's he's, yeah. He's a much more composed Spike.
He's he's not playing up for the camera, is he really?
No. And and you know what I find
beautiful? But and it is beautiful and
it's, it's, it's the correct word to use.
What I find beautiful about this is there's, there's almost a
tranquility and a, a gentleness about this.
And it's quite shocking because it's lovely to view and it's not
what you expect. And I just thought, wow, this,
this is quite powerful. He's not angry.
No, he he's a little bit, he gets a little bit irked later on
in this episode. He doesn't let that get to him,
which is quite interesting. He kind of brushes it off quite
quickly, but he's also very introspective, which I guess is
is ideal for this this show. Oh, he's, he's totally in the
right frame of mind for this. Yeah.
And I don't, that must have been more luck than design, you know,
And I'd love to know where he was on the scale of the black
dog that is always on his shoulder.
I, I, you know, I'd love to know that, but I absolutely, I loved
it. I thought it was.
I think it's a great interview. Yeah, David Dimbleby describes
him as as actor, goon, singer, musician, author, playwright,
poet, illustrator. Part time human being is what?
It's like overdrawn at the bank. I love that.
Yes, yes. He mentions overdrafts were
being overdrawn, at least by my counting, four or five times.
He does now interestingly I because I was looking at the
time frame as well. And you're right about G6.
Wasn't this when he did the great McConnell as well?
Yeah, that was that would have been, Yeah, because he's got the
beer. Yeah, this, it would have been
around the same. I think that came out in 70.
Four who did it? I just.
Very limited, maybe 75. We've covered it for God's sake.
I can't remember. Because I was just thinking,
because you, you're saying about the Q series, if that is the
case and he's just done that or, and it's about to come out.
And then of course you've, you're talking about the melting
pot. So how?
And he does mention later on, you know, about the pressure and
when people say, you know, I used to get phoned up and so I
want, I want a script in an hour.
So I wonder whether. This whole overdrawn at the bank
is just giving us a little window into what's going on
because obviously later on he does talk about an advert so.
Well, the the yeah, here. Here we go, though, because The
thing is, what was it, 64? I want to say 196364?
He gives an interview to, I think the Express.
Yeah. And it's he's very bitter and
he's very cheesed off at the world in general, shall we say?
OK. And he's talking about, and he's
basically, and I'm just paraphrasing here, but the, the
whole tenor of the the interview is that he can't get work and
he's skint and he needs money. And he's, you know, people have
moved on to the next big thing and he's been forgotten.
This is now he's 63. But in that sort of 12 month
period, he'd made two films, I think certainly one film in
which he starred. He'd he'd done countless
television appearances, He'd written Cocoon the bed sitting
room had been staged for the first time.
He never stopped working. If anything, he was probably
working harder than he was during, you know, the 50s and
the goons. But he's always pleading poverty
and he's always, he's always saying he's unemployable and
he's not saying that here, but he is.
There's always these little cracks about being overdrawn at
the bank, which is kind of like his default Grumble, if you
like. I suppose it's that constant
pressure, isn't it? You know, being self-employed
myself, it's, it's constantly with you.
And if your money drops at a certain point, you think I, I
need the next job, where's the next job?
And it probably is there, You know, I'm thinking about, well,
when I was an actor and now just doing other self-employed work,
it's it gets to the point where you can't feel as though you
have a regular steady income because it's contract after
contract after contract. And it's very, you know, very
unsettling because it isn't regular.
And so I, I sort of identify what he's staying there.
And for those of you that are listening who are self-employed
or, you know, freelance, you, you probably may get the, the
hang of that of what is being said because it's this lack of
stability, even though work's coming in.
So that may be it, that may be it.
That's, you know, it might have had a dip because he's at a four
count for a, you know, a new car or something and thinking, well,
I wasn't budgeting for that. So now I've got to write a bit
more of now I've got to find some more work.
Oh, it's an odd, actually. I, I think he had some tax
problems around this time as well, from memory, I'm sure.
And, and that may have contributed to him taking on
work. For example, the advert that he
talked about later. He took took that on, I think
partly to, to solve his problems with the online revenue.
He's also probably a little bit a little bit sort of feeling he
had to compete with Peter Sellers, who wasn't short of
you, Bob, let's face it. True.
Yeah, because they were quite, they were, I mean, they were
always close, but they'd been working quite closely on a
couple of films around this time.
Great Mcgonigal and Ghost in the Noonday Sun.
He had no sense of humour whatsoever.
I can't remember him ever having any sense of humour at that
time. So he obviously got it from his
father, who was a great comedian.
He was rather quiet, very friendly.
He had quite a lot of friends and I won't say he had a
particular sense of humour at that time.
He didn't. And he's very fond of books and
also loved animals. It's.
Rather striking that you had no sense of humour as a child, Is
she right, do you think? It's an amazing shock to hear
that I'm not thinking very quickly.
I think perhaps she was right. I was a very sort of serious
kid. I think, yes, very sensitive.
I don't think I perhaps she was right, yes, or that, or she
didn't have a sense of humour. The first taped interview with
with someone who knows Spike. It's actually his Aunt Eileen.
That's right, yeah. And Spike looks quite surprised
to see her, to see her on tape. And she just recalls him in
India as a child. And, and very, very matter of
fact, he just says I don't remember him having a sense of
humour at all. Yes, but isn't his?
Isn't his comeback brilliant when he says perhaps she didn't
have one? That's right.
I love that. That's right.
But then, yeah. But then he then he concedes
that she's probably right. Exactly.
He says he he described himself as a as a rather overwrought
child. It it it wasn't until maybe the
age of 14 that he began to get a little bit strange and maybe
develop a bit of a sense of humour.
What was your? What was your?
Because obviously he's talking about India there and his child.
What was your impression just in that little section of Spike as
a child? It was clearly extremely happy
time for him and you get the feeling he misses it.
I'm sure he does miss it because he, when he talks about he, he
was brought up in a very gentle, predominantly female atmosphere.
He went to a conference with a lot of girls.
There was, he said there was no, no trauma.
They had servants. There was a lot of sunlight, a
lot of running and swimming. It sounds like he enjoyed every
minute of it virtually. And the sale, I don't know about
you, but I, I did think, I think you were quite a serious, but
fun loving young young boy. Not, you know, PO faced.
I don't mean that, but he just had, I mean, what was it that
mentioned something he said? I didn't think about it and I
just, I, when he's talking, I just got a little window and
even the way he was, because he's obviously reflecting on it.
I thought, I can almost see you as a, as a young boy here as
he's reminiscing and it sounds absolutely idyllic.
You know, this, this young Milligan's life, you know, and
he, he talks later on as, as we know, he, he talks about being
an adult and maybe he shouldn't have grown up and, and I and
that ties in with what he said right at the beginning.
I get the feeling he was maybe more innocent than most teenage
boys would have been. Because when he talks about
arriving in England for the first time and he says that the
Thames is swaved in like a thick fog.
And then the fog lifted and there was his first sight of
England, very grey and dull. And, and then he says, and then
he said, this is the thing. He says there was a rose on the
deck. Oh, it's a lovely story.
And he he threw it down to the crew and one of them just picked
it up and threw it in the water, which is pretty much his
introduction to the English. And that just that just speaks
to Spike's incurable romantic. It does.
Well, he's very romantic in this and the pictures that he paints,
such as that one is, is actually gorgeous.
Yeah, there's there's the poet heart there and we're and we're
seeing it. You know, that's why I think
this is very revealing interview.
Not for scandal. I don't mean that.
I mean just revealing what spikes thoughts are.
And I think it's the only time in any interview that I've seen
with him that we get a slight glimpse into how he sees the
world and how he would like. To see the world.
And there's and he's he's not 100% serious in this during this
interview. He's cracking gags here and
there. He's cracking jokes and he's
trying to sometimes undermine the conversation.
Yeah. Or move or move the conversation
on with a gag or a crack or a quip or something.
But we see much, much more of the the real Spike Milligan, I
think, rather than the showman. Yes, Yeah.
And, and I think what just talking about this childhood,
even up to the war, one thing that hadn't really occurred to
me, although I'd, I think I'd always kind of in my head, I'd
known this, but because it's so obvious there was 2, There's two
Spike Milligan's. Well, there was the, there's,
there's the Spike Milligan post World War 2 and everything that
was bound up in that, including being blown up and and suffering
from PTSD, although you know, they wouldn't have called it
that then. But you've got you've got you've
got the post war Spike Milligan and you've got the pre war
Terence Milligan. And I think those are two very,
very different people. Very much so.
And, you know, when he's talking
about that, it's almost like he separates the two, which, again,
I think is is quite a revealing thing to have to, you know, to
have so much rights. Though he doesn't speak in the
third person, when he's reflecting, it's almost as
though he is talking about somebody else.
Yeah, Yeah. And he talks about he left
school at 15. He regretted.
Yeah. Also, he said he regretted he
regretted not going to university.
I'm glad he didn't because I don't think we would have had
the freedom that he gave us in what he wrote.
And it may have got bogged down in all of that.
But then again, we're talking about Terrance.
We're not talking about Spike, which would have been very
interesting to see what had happened, what would have
happened. But then we have John Entrebus.
I think Spike found that the the, the German army in the war
less of a threat then he finds the income tax people and the,
and the accountants and the overdrafts of of today.
I mean, they're, they're more abstract and vague and there's
never seems to be a release from them.
And I think this is how Spike feels in in the army, you had
your your, your pay, you had your, your uniforms, your meals
provided you had your comradeship, you had the ever
present risk of death. But perhaps that was the thing
that would least worry Spike. And I think he finds civilian
life much more worrying than than being in Africa or Italy.
What's your comment? That's a brilliant analysis of
what life is like. Yes, roll on World War 3.
So righteous I suddenly realise you can get to grips with the
enemy, but you can't get to grips with civilian life.
Overdraft. What can you do with about an
overdraft? No, take it down on a piece of
string or keep it in a cage. And I mean.
What I jotted down about that, I just thought he's got it meaning
that, yeah, what he says and he comes on twice and what he says
is almost as though he has the best insight into Spike.
But he also doesn't become too personal.
And he hits. I just think he hits the beat
really well. And you can see that, you know,
Spike quite enjoys seeing him there on the TV screen.
That's not talking about him. And he makes him laugh, which is
great. I think Spike says roll on World
War 3. World War 3.
Brilliant, but but thinks it's a perfect analysis.
He he he is absolutely bought into that.
Yeah. And I wonder whether that is.
Yeah. I mean, we, we come to learn
because Spike more or less acknowledges it, that yeah,
Spike was happier, happiest, most content.
Maybe during the war, maybe we think.
So, and do you know what I it's interesting, isn't it?
Because he talks about his childhood, then there's the war
and there's a structure with that.
So the childhood, he knew what he was getting, not so much when
he came to England. I'm thinking, what is this
place? What am I doing here?
And then he's in the army and it becomes a structure.
There are people there that will have certain things to do,
maybe, you know, like his home life.
And so it's almost like it clicks back into what he had
before he moved to England. That was my impression.
Yeah, well, if you think about it, so he's born 1918 and the
1st 14 years of his life, can't quite remember when he came over
to England with the family. But you know, let's say the 1st
1213 years of his life, he's living in relative comfort,
relative luxury. He's got servants it, the sun's
always shining. He's living in a very harmonious
atmosphere, very much sort of female dominated environment.
I know his mother's a bit distant emotionally, but he, he
seems to have had a idyllic childhood.
And they cut and then he's got the complete culture shock
coming to England and the, the, the grey and the cold and the
wet. Yeah.
And then, what, 5 or so years later, he suddenly plunged into
this. OK, He, he had a couple of years
training or pretty much, you know, the, the phony war and all
the rest of it. You know, he was in Bexhill.
He wasn't actually seeing active service.
But but still, you know, the, the war must have been a
complete rug pull in terms of what he was, what he was used
to. He wasn't.
You know, it's a second jolt. If you think about it, it was
roughly about five years. What you know what horrendous
thing and another jolt from you know, moving from India, going
to live in England, trying to get settled war moving away, you
know it's. Yeah.
Speaks of several jobs. He volunteered to stay on in the
army until 46 rather than be de mobbed in 45 because he liked
the security of the army. And he said he suffered, he
suffered army discharge withdrawal symptoms ever since
he left it. He said it was very safe, very
funny, and if you don't get killed, very secure, yeah.
Yeah, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
The Army. Yeah.
And he does speak fondly.
Does speak. I mean, we'll look, look at the
books as well. You know, there's a lot of
detail in there. And some people wouldn't even
bother. They wouldn't want to.
They wouldn't want to talk about any of that coming out of.
And it's very difficult for us to understand, obviously.
But Spike, no warts and all, we'll talk about the war.
Well, how many families are there that had or have a
grandfather who would never talk about the war?
Oh, it's so calm, so common. Yeah.
So again, you know, there's something that he's just.
No, this has happened. I'm telling him.
Yeah, you mentioned the books, the memoirs.
Yeah, David, David Dimbleby indicates his what he believes
is Spikes lack of respect for the officers as set out in the
memoirs. Yeah, and and Spike doesn't
recognise this. No, he's quite shocked, doesn't
he? He's quite shocked.
And he said with them again, David, look, and you think,
well, yeah, I mean, that's that's interesting.
How how did, how did Dimbleby see that?
Did he read them properly? I mean, I know journalists have
to skim through things, but yes, he's shocked.
He's absolutely shocked. No, no, I don't.
I don't think so. Yeah, I know Spike can be, could
be disingenuous and contradictory and all the rest
of it. And there were some officers,
you know, the, the the, the stupid officers that, that that
would get criticism in the memoirs.
But then Spike says, look, he, you know, there was a, there was
a large number of of officers that he absolutely respected.
He says Major Chater Jack, Yeah, he's almost, he's almost put out
by the, by the, the accusation. It's I guess I I suppose he
takes the piss out of the institution of the army in
general, just like he'd take the piss out of any institution.
Yeah. And I wonder whether that's
where Dimbleby gets the wrong end of the stick from.
I think that's quite. Quite.
Yeah, with with its rules and regulations.
Having said all that, sounds like Spike loved the the rules
and regulations. Oh yeah.
Because he knew where he was. And and and says that in the
interview, yeah. Yeah, did I take the Mickey out
of the officers? Must have been a lie.
No, I'm certain I didn't. David, read it again.
Read Volume 3. When I'll write it all out, I'll
say I love my officers. Do we get an another person on
the on the TV? It's Jimmy Grafton.
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy Grafton, King of the Goons and The Voice.
Of sanity. Yes, Keith of the Voice of
Converse. Converse.
Come on, Jimmy, hurry up. The last bus goes at 10:30.
He's looked at the world and decided that it's people with
idiots, and therefore he's created his own world of idiots
in an extreme form. And if you think of the
characters in the Goon Show, you have Grit Pipe Thin who was a
supercilious idiot. You have Henry and Minnie Crum
who are aging, dodgering idiots. You have Moriarty who is a a
teeth gnashing, incompetent, frustrated plotter.
You have the child idiot Blue Bottle, always victimized.
And you have Eccles, who I think is the nearest thing to what you
might say is Spike's own. It a very simple, uncomplicated
character who doesn't want to be burdened with the responsibility
of thinking and just wants to be happy and enjoy himself.
And I think that's fundamentally his Spike.
I've always told him that I think that Eccles is the true
Milligan and the rest is just a a cover.
I'm sorry, is he right? I'm saying he's right.
Yes, yes, that's it, man. You know, I don't want to know
about thinking and all that thing about earning money.
I just want to be an idiot. Oh, I said to my up to my neck
in a bucket of custard. And enjoy it, you know.
Do you see? Do you see all the rest of the
world as idiots, everybody else as idiots?
And David? It's not looking at them as
being rude because they're idiots.
But I think society, we are idiots, yes, We're a very
vicious form of idiots, You know, I don't think man is a
success at all. He never really improved himself
once he came out of the swamp, you know.
That's interesting, isn't it? Because you know, I said about
Giant Chorus getting it, and here we have somebody who
obviously, by the way that he's talking about Spike, just adores
the guy. And I think there's quite a
little insightful thing that he says.
Well, a couple of things about idiots and, and about the echoes
as well. And again, Spike just absolutely
agrees with him. He laughs, but he absolutely
agrees with him. So that's another side, isn't
it? Somebody else.
But he's seeing the more playful side of Spike and he you can
tell he's in awe of Spike and it's lovely.
Yeah. And you could argue that without
Jimmy Grafton. I think Jimmy Grafton certainly
helped in a a great deal in terms of Spike's career.
Yeah, probably without Jimmy Grafton, Spike would have still
have been successful, but maybe in a different way.
He may, he may not have met. Well, he met, he already knew
seek him, but he may not have met Sellers, who knows?
And and then David Dimbleby says that Spike, in a sense, opts out
of the world by saying everyone else are idiots or everyone are
idiots, and I suppose he's including himself in that.
Yeah, yeah, because, well, he, he goes back, doesn't because he
isn't that something Jimmy Grafton also just says.
And he said, yeah, he's right about that.
More society, idiots. And I'm sure he said I'd be.
I'll be happier sticking my head in a pocket custard.
Yeah, and then he opens up more. He talks about how he got to
know himself better after his breakdowns and he he touches on
his depression, talks about his first marriage breaking up after
the his first major breakdown in the 50s.
And then and this is where we get the clip with Peter Sellers
I. Was just going to say before we
talk says, you know, that's a bit that I, I, I have to say, I
just thought David Dimbleby shut up because he asked Spike a
series of questions. He obviously is motoring because
he wants to get to Stella's, but I thought Spike's coming out
with some really interesting stuff.
You've got an answer, but he just railroads over the answer.
Dimbleby doesn't really probe, no.
He'll ask a question, Spike will answer it, and then Dimbleby
will move on to the next question.
Yeah, but you are right. Yeah, but but we have Sellers on
this film set with a pink towel on his head for some reason.
I don't know why. I was trying to work out which
film it might have been. It may not have been a film set.
It might have been TV studio. I don't know.
But I. Wonder why the sellers just pop
that on his head for for. Shits and giggles.
Yeah, yeah. Sellers being wacky.
And this is the thing. Sellers.
I think sellers. Probably a bit of a downer and
he's probably thinking I'll sod Spike.
I'll I'll say what I want. I think he used to like people,
but he found a great deal of disillusionment in that area and
began to take more to plants and animals and especially to
animals. And I think he's frightened of
people. Basically, he's a romantic and
he was very deeply in love with his first wife.
And when that began to break up and he had his illness, he
became more and more withdrawn and began basically to hate
women, a feeling I'm sure he has to this very day.
If I hope he's president wife, excuse me, but I'm sure she
would agree that I don't think he he he he really likes women.
And I was, I wrote down on my notes here projecting much
Peter, because. You know, interestingly, this is
what I thought. I got the feeling he's talking
about himself. I.
Think, and it's isn't that interesting that both of us have
got that because I 100% think that Sellers is having an event
and yeah, he's definitely talking about himself there.
Definitely, yeah. And you can see Spike just looks
puzzled. Yeah.
By that I have to say I thought for me that was the most hurtful
section. I, I winced when when I heard
sellers say that. And then when it pans back to
spike and he's looking down and he looks puzzled.
And I, I just thought that's I don't believe it and that was
quite hurtful. But he looks quizzical, almost
thinking am I, you know, am IA woman hater?
No, you know, you can see the cogs turning.
No, I suppose well, everybody breaks up with her, has a
marriage broken up, gets a bit bitter, but that's I mean, so I
say human beings. I don't hold it.
No why I my first wife was a very fine woman and I was in the
middle of a terrible nervous breakdown and I was I was awful.
I was must have been actually abominable and she couldn't
stand it. That's all she left.
And it's one of those things of unfortunate facts of life that
happened. Tragic thing to happen.
Anyhow, no, I don't hate women. No, you don't take one.
No, I don't take that. One, he said that I'm sure I was
calling to my first wife and he, he says a very telling thing.
He goes on again, I think this is quite, quite deep that he
goes into and it's another window into into what he's
thinking when you know that he's talking about the break up of
the marriage. And he says, she says that he
was, he changed, he was different and he he said I was
different. It was, it was true.
And he and then he says it was a tragedy because of his
breakdown. And I think that's really,
really revealing and coming off the back of.
Of. What Sellers said.
I mean, we probably wouldn't have got that if Sellers hadn't
have said it. So there's there's the plus, but
it's a bit of a roller coaster, just those couple of minutes of
the hearing sellers and then having spikes thoughts about it.
Yeah, I think he genuinely felt sorry for his first wife, felt
sorry for the way he treated her, for the way it had turned
out. But but I think more he was
upset about the way it affected the children, which then David
Dimbleby asks if he finds the company of animals and children
more agreeable and Spike concurs and says child, especially
children, and then they become adults and they get jobs for the
sake of money and they try to get on and they stop being
agreeable. Yeah, and that's when he says
about the Aborigines as well. You know, he, he, he loves that
because he he said about that. They're grown up children.
They retain that, which I thought was, oh, that's, that's
interesting. That's really interesting, Your
insight. And of course he would have
known, wasn't he? Because he would have, you know,
he spent a lot of his time in Australia.
So he would have gone out and, and met people, especially the
Aborigines. Yeah.
Throughout this interview he keeps harking back.
When he's talking about the present, he tends to be talking
about negative circumstances. So he talks about that he can't
face up to major adult difficulties.
He locks himself up in rooms for days and listens to classical
music and reads books. And I suppose what you would say
these days decompresses that way.
But then he's always thinking back to his childhood more and
more, and he dreams of being a child again.
Like piece of pan. He wishes he never grew up.
Yeah. And it's nice then, isn't it?
Because then he starts talking about Jane and she's running
around the house. There's always laughter and
laughing. That's right and.
I'm. With, that's right, with the.
Children, you know, her friends. So it is.
He's very, it's almost like he's looking into the horizon just
thinking about that. And.
But again, draws a beautiful picture.
You can see it. You can just picture it, you
know. And how much he wishes that he
could have that innocence that Jane had at that time.
Yeah. It's lovely.
Absolutely lovely. There's another face on the
screen and it's it's it's Judith Craig, God bless him, who was
stage manager on the bed sitting room production.
And I had to, I had to rewind this and watch it a couple of
times to try and get my head around what she was saying.
She she starts out by saying that she adores Spike, but she
thinks he can be cruel as well as kind.
And she tells the story of an understudy who who was in spikes
under study on the bed sitting room spike was, I don't know,
ill or wasn't able to turn up for a week or something.
And. That's right, yeah.
This understudy had a chance to go on in his absence.
And although she doesn't explain it clearly, it would appear that
that Judith Craig sent this understudy a telegram and some
whiskey as if it had come from Spike, wishing him well, wishing
the understudy well. And the understudy was so
thrilled. He went around the whole cast,
you know, telling everybody, showing them the telegram.
And then when Spike returned, I guess it's understood, he
thanked him. And Spike kind of said, well, I
didn't send that. I didn't send that telegram, and
I didn't send the whiskey. And Judith Craig says the young
man was destroyed as a result of that.
And I just think, and Spike looks really confused by that.
He says I don't remember that. And he looks, he actually looks
disappointed. You can tell his mood is
darkened slightly. And I think for a start, Spike
was telling the truth. He would.
He'd come back from being away. This understudy, it's come up to
him and thanked him for something he had no knowledge
of. What did Judith Craig expect him
to do? She should have.
She should have quartered him prior to that and then told him
what she'd done. Yeah, and it's interesting,
isn't it, because he does, he looks, he looks so disappointed.
I mean, I, I can't fathom why she decided to tell that story
out of all the stories in the 1st place.
But he looks so disappointed. And and he, he just very
innocently and childlike to Dimbleby.
He just said I was only telling the truth.
And then he, you know, he, he thinks for a second and he just
says, you know, about truth. It, it can be cruel, can't it?
And it's just because he doesn't know what to say.
And I don't blame him. I don't think, apart from
swearing at the screen, I don't think I, I would know what to
say. I mean, why, why on earth, out
of all the stories, of all the memories, the good times that
you would have had doing that production, do you come out with
that story? I don't get it.
Yeah. And he actually says she's,
she's alarmed me now because it's on about how he, you know,
supposedly how he was and he can't recall it.
He can't recall it at all. David Dimbleby goes on to ask
him if he's ever violent and he says, well, he's never hit his
children or his wife. Talks about hitting some lad
called Tom Conlon and and someone in Dublin who'd heckled
him and starts to laugh at this memory.
But then obviously this Judith Craig thing has got under his
skin. Yeah, because Dimbleby goes on
to ask him if he's difficult to work with.
Does his colleagues find him difficult?
Are you? Are you a difficult person to
work with? Do your colleagues find you
difficult to work? With I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know.
I hope I'm not. You know, I work very hard and
like to rehearse very hard. And I'm always getting at people
saying do it this way, do that, we do this way.
And sometimes I say, for Christ's sake, you know, let me
do it my way. Do you, do you suffer from
actors prima donner ishness that sort of quality?
Are you very finicky and fussy and prickly when you're working?
So these are the questions you should ask other people like
Judith Craig. You know, she's alarmed me now
as to what I might be like. I don't think so.
I turn up on time. I run my lines.
Dick Lester might have told you if I was a prima Donna.
I don't think I have. I don't think so.
He talks about actually when he demands or demanded things and
wanted better, you know for sound effects, etcetera.
And they that they weren't right.
And and interestingly, that that actually reminded me that little
section. And I thought, well, yeah, you
fought for this and you changed it because I I love the way
that, you know, the sound effects in the goons became
another character. They were integral.
And, you know, he he pushed and he talks about pushing for
better in in that interview. And it reminds me of, you know,
when he, he wants a sound like it's custard in a sock.
So he gets all the, the rubbish versions and, and he has, you
know, a hammer hitting custard in a sock to see what it sounds
like. It's constantly, constantly
pushing. And does that make somebody
difficult to work with, being a perfectionist, wanting a sound,
right? I don't think it does, you know,
I don't think it does because you need people to push those
batteries, you know? Absolutely.
And then look at The Beatles. Did you know that was in my head
as I was talking about it And, and you know, if they hadn't
have pushed, if they hadn't have gone, Let's just try this here.
Can we do that? No, that that can't be done.
Let's try it. And Spike was exactly the same.
If you think about the sound effects being his music to
accompany his writing, that's exactly what he was doing that
The Beatles did later on, you know, I see no no different
whatsoever. Yeah, the conversation moves on
to the boy he shot who broke into his work room at the bottom
of his garden, and the result of which Spike got a 12 month
suspended sentence. It was only like a what was it?
It was a air gun, air run. Yeah.
And they're tiny pellets.
I used to have one tiny. Yeah, yeah.
And the the. The like in the fairs, you know
the. That's right.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it was a it was a 15 year old.
He was shot in the shoulder and he was taken to hospital and
they just dug a a small pallet out of his shoulder.
So it wasn't anything that was, you know, life threatening by
any means. Yeah, there was this boy, this
kid that Peter Bell I think his name was, who was constantly or
had been constantly breaking into the garden.
And Spike was actually, well he was charged with assault
occasioning actual bodily harm. And he appeared at Pike at
Magistrates Court on 30th of May 1974, so literally the year
before this interview. Yes.
So that's fresh in the in the memory.
And, and the papers, yeah, but it was around the same time.
Talk about timing that his wife, Paddy, yes, was also, well, she
was in coroner's court because she had hit a man in her car by
accident and killed him. Do you know about this?
No, I don't. She was driving home and she, I
think she rounded the corner and she went into a skid and tried
to control it, but the car went out of control and hit an old
man down on the pavement. And the coroner recorded a
verdict of accidental death. So nothing came of it.
But the old man, Mr. Stapleton, died in hospital as a result of
it. So he talks about this shooting,
this boy, and then he said he'd shoot a cat if it went after the
birds. And as a result, he'd been
forced to resign from some of the animal groups and charities.
He's involved with yeah, yeah. But isn't it interesting that he
then goes into detail to say how much a cat over a certain time
can destroy the bird life in a garden and knows exactly what
he's talking about. And yes, in his mind, he's
justifying, he's justifying it. But.
But it's it's interesting, you know, there we go.
I'm I'm an animal lover, but that I'm more concerned about
how the bird population will potentially suffer because of an
action of 1 cat. So I, you know, shot it up the
arse. And it was his cat though,
wasn't it? Because he said, he said, I'm
sure it was his cat. He said I feed it from one end.
That's right, Shoot it up another.
Yeah. So it's he just go.
I love the fact that he justifies.
No, there's a pecking order, birds, cat, humans.
So yeah, yeah, interesting story.
And but again, you know, he's he's right in there.
No. Do you know, and he's he's
great. You see these flashes off.
Look, here's the information, you know, and being very
serious. And then he's obviously he he
pulls back. I think he's been very restraint
as well in this interview. It's a strange mood.
It's a strange mood, a lovely mood.
I like it because he's just controlling everything.
He's not going off on a tangent too much on.
Any he's not. He's not railing against
everything. No, no.
Which he's saying and saying because because he he would have
a tendency often to say he was right and everyone else was
wrong. Yeah, yeah.
He's very measured. That's another put here, down
here, measured. He's measured in this, this
interview. That's why I think it.
I think it's fascinating interview.
We get a return from Grafton Return appearance Jimmy Grafton.
Oh, yes, yeah. Who describes Spike as a court
jester and asks to what extent is the eccentricity involuntary
or deliberate? And is he using it to shield
himself from those who would discipline him or try to use him
or put him into circumstances that he wants no part of?
And he wonders where the line is.
And Spike addresses this and says feels he is unbalanced and
and can't control his personality.
But he says he fights authority and says you can't do that by
being mad, you need great control.
And also says he'll never avoid major responsibilities like
looking after his family. Yeah.
Oh, he's very, he's very principled and, and in fact,
when he talks about his principles quite soon after that
doesn't even want to, he speaks. About Oh, yes, yeah, that's
right. So have you, do you know about
this advert that he's talking about?
I know it's interesting. I thought I saw the advert on
something else. I didn't really think much of
it, as in, I didn't think, oh, you know, it's just like, oh,
there's Spider Man doing an advert, Peter Sellers.
And then, of course this interview then comes and I
thought, oh, is that the advert that he's thinking about?
Or it's one of those things I'm thinking, did I see it?
Didn't I see it? Yeah.
Yeah, so you're quite right. He's talking about sometimes he
has to put his principles aside. I don't know.
I don't know if he mentioned specifically, but he mentions
being quite high up in Ash. She's smoking organization.
I'm an actor. This is a job of acting.
I'm promoting these cigarettes, which breaks my heart, but I'm
not a smoker, do I? I've got to survive in this
jungle, right? So I thought I've got to do this
commercial to pay my tax, to be law abiding.
At the same time, a little bit of my morality had been chipped
away and I've never got over that.
And yeah, he owed a lot of tax week.
So he made this cigarette advert for Benson and Hedges and it was
actually it was filmed right in the middle of him filming with
Peter Sellers Ghost in the Noonday Sun.
Same director as well. It's Medak.
OK, so they they they filmed this this advert, both Sellers
and Milligan vehement anti smokers at this point.
OK, but he did it for the money. And by the way, we have covered
Ghost in the Noonday Sun on Goon Pod previously.
We talk extensively about the making of the advert, so please
check out that that that episode if you want to find out more.
I won't go into it now, but yes, Spike pretty much suffered a a
long dark night of the soul trying to reconcile his
principles with his need for cash often.
Yeah. And that's interesting because
he says, you know, he said I spent something like I'm
paraphrasing here, but I spent the night pacing in my bedroom,
you know, thinking about whether I should do.
But it's, it's interesting, isn't it?
You know, I need, it's basically I need the money to, to support
my family is, is what he's talking about.
And you know that's if your family comes first, then your
principles have to go out the window.
It's difficult, very difficult. And you know, you can hear it.
You can hear that in his voice when he's recounting it.
And Dimbleby asks him why he chose such a high pressure
career. And he says it chose me.
I'm stuck with it. Yeah, Yeah.
I think you see it's interesting about about Dimbleby because I,
I think that's quite a naive question.
Am I saying that because I'm aware that, you know, being on
in that myself, that you don't choose things?
You know, sometimes you can stumble all along and one thing
leads to another and and definitely, you know, it almost
chooses you. So I found that very odd naive
question from Dimbleby buddy, isn't it?
Isn't it round about that time again?
And I just thought, Dimbleby shut up.
And he goes on about, yes, it is because he's talking about the
high pressure and he's talking about, you know, his breakdowns
again. And I thought, you've done it to
death. And I'm just wasn't interested
in another question about Spike and his mental health because I
thought he's covered that. What else do you want to know?
Yeah, I felt I was. I mean, obviously it's early
days of Dimbleby and his interviewing technique, but I
just, I felt, you know, we've already mentioned him
railroading sometimes and he he gets an answer, but then pushes
it because it's not the answer that he wants.
And then back on the mental health.
And I just think Spike is more than his mental health and and I
find sometimes on even when Spike was alive and watching
interviews and it got round to his mental health, I thought,
why are we treading this this ground again?
There's more about the man. Because it's because it's
easier. It's it's more.
You sell more papers by talking about torture, genius.
Yeah. And again, again, Spike, looking
back, always looking to the past because Didbelby's asks him if
he, if he'd like to do something entirely different.
And Spike suggested like to have been an amateur archaeologist or
an underwater archaeologist. And he later talks about, right
towards the end of the interview, he talks about or, or
Dimmelby asks him what he finds the most rewarding.
And Spike has to think about this.
And then he says digging in ruins.
Yeah. Now do you know that what, as
soon as he's when he's thinking and then he comes up, I actually
thought, look at him lighting up.
I mean, it's, it's great. He's just, oh, if I could do
that and he just see it in his face.
I mean, you see a lot in his face in this interview.
There's a lot it's. Yes, you do, and.
For anybody who hasn't seen it and you want to see a different
side of Spike, just seek it out because it is it's it's it's a
lovely and you really see a a decent, caring, sensitive man in
this interview. I love it.
I absolutely love it. It's a brilliant interview.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see the full gamut of
emotions on his face, from delight to hilarity to
confusion, amusement, little spark of anger here and there,
bitterness, everything. Yeah.
And tranquility and it's like you say just then when he talks
about digging in ruins because he mentioned specifically, I
didn't get the name of it. He mentioned some like a castle
next to the mermaid. I assume that's the mermaid
theatre. You know what castle that would
be. But but he talks about that or
just touches on that. And then Dimbleby says, so
you're not you don't find your work.
You actually your work rewarding comedy work, I guess he means or
writing. And Spike says, well, no, it's
agony trying to write, but he's always, he's always held that
line, hasn't he? Yeah, yeah.
And he just, it's something that he knows he can do to pay the
bills. Yes, yes, you know, But if he
was back in India playing with his mates and didn't have to do
any of that, that's exactly, you know, what he would want to do.
But yeah, it's very telling, very telling.
Interview. If I might have stayed a jazz
musician, I might have. I don't think I I think I might
have been happier not having become so profound in in myself.
I'd have been very lightweight and just wanting to play the
jazz of an evening and chat up the birds, never drink a wine
and go to bed. Then the next gig the next time.
That's like a because when you're playing, it's very good.
It's therapeutic. Could you ever go back to that
kind of life? I don't think so, because I'm to
play the trumpet. You've got to practice four or
five hours a day and I think I'm just a bit past it now.
I think so, yes. So that that's.
Past it. That that kind of easy happiness
or tranquility really has eluded you.
Yes it has completely. Sorry.
I remember what happiness was. I still get great glows of
warmth and satisfaction from seeing children and sunny days.
Things that are going right in the world and beautiful
buildings get lovely warm feeling.
It's not that happiness that I hear coming from my daughter
when she's running up and down the hall laughing.
Spike Milligan, thank you. Thank you, David.
And then Spike, ever the showman, because the the camera
right at that moment is is shooting Spike from behind.
And he he turns his head with a cheeky grin, kind of winks at
the camera and says, thank you, David.
And the credits roll. Very cheeky.
I love it. I love it.
Very playful at the end. Very playful.
But, you know, a nice way to end because sometimes, you know, you
see, and they go thank you. And they're sitting there and
they anything or probably not happy or they want to say
something else. Something hasn't gone right.
But no, that's just that playful little wink at the end.
Nice. And Spike.
I like it. Yeah.
But it's good. It's a good interview.
I did dig out from the Goon Show Preservation Society newsletter.
Oh yeah. Around this time there's like a
three quarter page review of it and I'm not going to read it all
because it's quite lengthy, but there's a few points here.
I think it's worth mentioning that they they well, it says
it's it's soon became apparent to those of us who remember the
days of John Freeman that here was a rehash of the six
successful face to face series that Freeman masterminded in the
50s. Which is absolutely right,
isn't? It yes, of course it is, because
it's that's the one that sort of broke Tony Hancock.
Wasn't it? And Harding?
Gilbert Harding as well? Oh, right, the television and
radio personality of the 50s, it says.
Here it was quite obvious that David Dimbleby had strict
instructions from the producer to keep a tight rein on Spike
and to resist any temptation to slip into comic asides of any
kind. It would be rather impertinent
to a great artist and genius to start an amateur psychoanalysis
session in absentia for Spike, so we will not go far down this
path of breakdown and depression, which did crop up
quite frequently there. You go look at that, yeah.
We are, however, aware of it. Perhaps we can see it in his
tragicomic eyes, especially as they begin to wander from side
to side as he wrestles with a difficult question that has
obviously caused him some pain. It then goes on to cite that
Judith Craig sequence and pretty much agrees with what we said.
You know, it was sufficient to put Spike on the defensive for
several moments, resolved by his assertion that if the truth had
been established, then this may have been cruel, but it would
not have been his fault. Totally.
Yeah. This is what you said.
Yeah, they mentioned that the Peter Sellers bit and the fact
that it said he didn't seem to like women very much.
This seemed to be new, a new one to Spike, and it caused them
considerable amusement. I wouldn't say amusement, I'd
say more just. Bemused, I think.
I wonder whether that's a typo. Maybe.
Because yeah, no, he, he he wasn't, he wasn't at all.
Yeah, he wasn't amused by that. And this just rounds off for
saying television interviews are good entertainment, but they
cannot and must not enable us to become too familiar with
anybody, at least nobody we hope to continue respecting and
admiring as an artist. Now that's interesting, isn't
it? Because I'm just thinking about
that. Certainly because obviously it's
you know, it's the goons show appreciation.
So whatever is seen in a particularly bad light by one of
the goons I sellers in this case may be glossed over.
And so that because obviously, you know, these are their
heroes. I think you should call people
out if you see it now, and probably you and I are seeing
this with a clearer eye than those at members of the
Appreciation Society at the time.
I'm sure that that'd be very different if the Appreciation
Society watched the interview now.
So that's interesting that that bit's glossed over.
And if amusement rather than what we think the amusement it
is, is what they think, I yeah, they're seeing something that
isn't there. So that's, that's quite
interesting, isn't it? Yeah, I get the feeling that
certainly maybe then the GSPS, they didn't like to dwell on
the, the, the, the darker side or the more serious side of
their heroes, like you say, Obviously I'm talking Milligan
and Sellers chiefly. They really.
Yeah, yeah, but, but, but there we go.
So no, look, as I say, as you say, well worth seeking out if,
if you haven't seen it, it's, it's on YouTube.
It's about 4040 odd minutes in length.
Yeah, I think it is 4045, yeah. Yeah.
And it's just, it gives you, if you haven't seen it, you know,
it'll give you a different, slightly different perspective
on Spike perhaps. I think definitely so.
I mean, I was thinking back afterwards, after I watched that
and the two things that cropped up, One, I thought, OK, very
different to what we then became used to, you know, with him on
Woken and flirting with Joanna Lumley when when she had him on,
you know, very, very different to those interviews.
But I'll tell you what it reminded me of, and I haven't
done any research to see whether he was interviewed by Mavis
Nicholson. Yeah.
Now it reminded me very much of that sort of interview that she
used to to get again, very underrated and very lost in
time. I think those interviews are but
she managed to get a different side out of people so I'd be
interested to see if there is one that she she she did with
Spike. Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
There were, there were many interviews with Spike in the 70s
into the 80s and they kind of started to drop off after that.
But generally speaking, you'd get Spike on form telling us
funny anecdotes and gags and being outrageous.
But very occasionally you'd get more introspective, more nuanced
interviews of Spike where he would talk about more serious
matters and and those are just as compelling, really.
Can I just say, Tyler, we have spoken about this longer than
Dimbleby spoke to Spike, Yes. Yes, yes, absolutely.
So lately. Thank you so much.
Brilliant. No, Thank you for inviting me.
What? What should we do?
Make a date for another two years.
I think so. And what would it be?
Another another Spike topic? Maybe the melting pot?
What do you reckon? I'll tell you what, that would
be a challenge, wouldn't it? That would be a challenge.
But it's been an absolute pleasure and you know, watching
that interview as well as you can tell, I, I loved it.
So thank you very much for asking me to, to take part in
this and talking about the interview because it's
absolutely fascinating. As I said, beautiful at the
beginning and it's the perfect word for it.
He's he's, he's absolutely gorgeous in this.
My pleasure, Lee. It's it's been, it's been
wonderful having you on and see you again in 2026.
Yeah. See you then, then.
Cheers, Tyler. Thank you.