Gus, Gus. I know, I know, I know.
What's the fear of my constipial heart?
You in the act, annoying my beard?
Women in the canal there by Cranthora Binen, by Lord 37 But
they had to swim on topless 1 Otherwise otherwise I'd have
drowned or no Lord in this village again drowning, Only
swimming. Women that are criminals are
went. It can't.
You don't have to appear before the magistrate, my dear.
Ain't nobody slammed in the canal since Old Jim Prong fell
in. Since old Jim Prong fell in dead
drunk in his long underwear. And did he have to go in front
of the magistrate? He was the magistrate.
Say it again, my little darling. Hello and welcome to Goompod.
My name is Tyler Adams, and in a packed program tonight, get me,
I sound like I'm in the two Ronnies.
In a packed program tonight, we will witness the birth of a
catch phrase, a last minute magistrate and money's in
arrears. Yes, this week we're talking
about the rent collectors and I have a very special guest, the
other side of the world, Adelaide, I believe it's Karen
Moffat. Hello, thank you so much for
having me. And yes, yes it is.
It is Adelaide, the the city that Australia forgot.
Well, I lived in Canberra briefly years and years and
years ago. That's I would say that would be
the city that Australia should forget.
Well, the thing about Canberra is I don't think I'm amazed.
I've actually spoken to somebody who's come from there because I
thought only civil servants lived there.
It's basically it's only point it's to be a home for civil
servants, right? Yeah, no, I was.
My sister lived there for a few years and I lived with her for,
I don't know, six months or something.
I was, I was anyway, let's move on from Canberra.
So Karen, we were brought together through another
podcast, actually, that you were a guest on and, and presented by
a couple of friends of mine. The podcast being Lord of that
is Black, which is a the podcast is all about Blackadder.
I mean, you, you're, you're a podcaster yourself, but you're
also a, a performer, but you you do have quite a thing for, for
comedy of a certain vintage. We'll come to your sort of if
you like history with the goons, or at least you know what, what
you think of the goons shortly. But tell me about, you know, the
podcast that you do and, and what what you do as a sort of a
is it an unofficial job because you do a lot of readings and
things like that. Don't.
You, I do, it is technically a job.
I mean, I'm, I, I mean, I suppose as far as the, the
Australian Taxation Office is concerned, I'm self-employed so
I'm a subcontractor. So there's a couple of things to
do. So, yeah, I work for Reading
Companions Australia where we go out and we do performance
readings of books really at libraries, which is, which is
great. Sometimes you, you really get to
challenge the people and you know, we tell them we'll read
anything you like. Unfortunately, that often comes
back as weirdly Edwardian children's literature, which I'm
as big a fan of as I possibly can be.
But if I have to read Little House on the Prairie out to a
bunch of pensioners one more time, it's going to be a bit,
we're going to have a problem. I know, I know.
But when I get to really let loose, because it's like, it's
like recording an audio book, only you've got an audience in
front of you. So, you know, you lean into the
you, you do the voices you. So I was, I did win in the
willows recently. It's just like the majesty of
the roads. Poop, poop, poop, poop, that
sort of thing. You really just sort of have to
lean into it. So yeah, I do, I do that, which
I love. And I also have, yeah, as you
said, some podcasts. I do a Doctor Who podcast called
Please Attend Carefully, which is about, it is the only Doctor
Who podcast exclusively about the Master, which is how we feel
ourselves anyway. And yeah, a few other things.
I've done a few, you know, sort of unofficial audiobooks and
things like that. I I just, I love talking
basically. And I've managed to monetize
that as best I can. Yeah, great.
OK. All right.
So am I right in saying your parents from Britain?
Yes, yes, both my parents are from the UK so they are, they
came over on the the migrant scheme.
So they are the 10 LB poms as they say, 10. # Poms, yeah.
Yeah, so. Is is that is that where because
because you do have a fondness for British comedy, is that is
that through them? Very much so, especially and
mainly my dad more than anything else.
So yeah, my dad would have been, was born in 1953.
He emigrated over here in 1963. And so all this stuff that he
loved when he was a kid, he just sort of, it just sort of stuck
with him. I mean, I had a very odd
upbringing, I think because very little actual Australian
content, despite being in an Australian house was actually,
you know, came in. All of the stuff that I was
exposed to as a kid was the Goon Show and Doctor Who, but also
blackout a red dwarf as you met. You mentioned 2 Ronnie's gag.
Yeah, all of the two Ronnies. And you know, I think back now
as a as an adult and I go, God, quite a lot of that I really
should not have been exposed to as a child.
Yeah, but the the goons, yeah. So, so before we started
recording, you said obviously you'd listen to to the show
we're going to talk about today, but you said you'd you'd kind of
sort of dipped out of the goons for, for a while.
Was it? Was it difficult to dip back in?
Honestly, not as hard as I thought.
And you know, because like I used to listen to it a lot.
And I will say, I have to say the goons absolutely started me
on my trajectory to audio. Like the, the, the idea, like
the Goon Show, growing up in the 90s, listening to that and
understand, like having to understand because Australia has
no radio drama tradition whatsoever.
Like understanding that you can make something just in audio
absolutely set me on the trajectory I, I'm in now.
And the Green Show, when I was a kid, I used to listen to it on,
you know, the cassettes we'd get from the library, things like
that. I think a lot of people have
very similar stories. And, you know, come the advent
of the Internet in about 2007, which other than it was quite
late for my family, you know, you'd then I'd then listen to
all the stuff that I'd missed when I was growing up.
And you do, you go. I think you go through fallow
periods with stuff like this. It's like I'll go through
periods where I spend, I don't know, a few weeks listening to
nothing but John Finamore's souvenir program and.
That's great that yeah. Oh really, isn't it?
That's so under appreciated. Really.
God, I, I love it. I think it's, I think it's
fantastic. And but yeah, the goon, the goon
show is the same. Like you can, it's very Moorish.
You can just put it on and just go episode to episode to episode
to episode. If you've got it.
You know, it was just, it was a gateway drug that the Goon show
led me to a no site, Hitchhiker's Guide to the
Galaxy, which then led me to the work of Dirk Mags, which
eventually, you know, you know, I'm listening to jump in a more
souvenir program. What we do in the kitchen, like
all these great. Oh no, in and out of the
kitchen. That's what it's called.
That's what I've been listening to lately.
Miles, Chap. Miles chap one.
It's really, really sweet, really easy listening cabin
pressure, things like that. And then also just the big, big
drama that like Audible's getting into and the Big finish,
obviously, because I'm a Doctor Who nerd.
So, you know, Goon show started all that.
But it it has been nice since we like went since you said, oh, do
you want to come on, do this show?
I was like, yeah, great. And I take this opportunity to
sit down and get back, like ease back in.
It's like I was thinking just today the the musical segments,
in some episodes they're really great, really welcome.
In other episodes, they remind me of that Noël Coward quote of
it's like a footnote. It's like having to go
downstairs and onto the door while you're in the middle of
making love. And that's kind of what the
music feels like. In some episodes it's like, oh,
I'm so enjoying the story, why are you stopping it?
That's great. I'll have to use that.
Yeah, Remember that one. So do you, so do you typically
or did you typically skip the music or did it just depend on
what song it was? I think, I think it's not even a
matter of the fact that it's the music, it's the fact that the
Goon Show is formatted thanks to the hangover of variety, right?
Like it's, yeah, yeah, it's meant to be variety, which is
funny because it's kind of like the young ones in the sense that
they only managed to get that made by putting music in it and
calling it variety because there was a bigger budget for variety
than there was for straight comedy.
And so the music in and of itself, if I was to sit down and
listen to Max Geldray or Ray Ellington, just I I would
happily sit down and listen to an album.
But it's kind of a harsh contrast if you go funny music,
funny music, and it's a bit jarring.
It it can take you out of it. I mean, there's sometimes it
merges in quite organically. God, God didn't plan to say
that. I'm just thinking of the call of
the West when it it goes into the Max gallery number.
That works really well. Yeah, there there are times when
when it's just completely. Yeah, just takes you out of it.
Sure. OK, well, let's talk about this
show. And and as you as you know, I do
like to talk about the background, what's going on
behind the scenes and and and whatnot.
And it's an interesting show. The rent collectors, it's from
the middle of the 7th series and it was broadcast 17th of January
1957. And I always try and bring it
back to The Beatles, try and crow by her in a Beatles
reference the day before this was broadcast.
OK, the Cavern Club opened in Liverpool.
Oh wow. So yeah, it was broadcast 17th
of January. It was actually recorded Sunday,
the 30th of December 56. And there were two shows
recorded that night. So there was Wings Over
Dagenham, which we've covered previously, and this show.
And the reason for that is that the cast wanted the next two
Sundays free. Peter Sellers was doing 2
specials on ATV with Eric Sykes and those were broadcast across
the first two Saturdays in January and and Harry Harry
Seekin went to Jamaica with his wife for two weeks.
Did you get it? Yeah, and I'll, and I'll come
back to, to the sellers TV shows in a minute.
But yeah, it, it was, it was. I'm not sure if this was by
design, but in 1979 the BBC released ALP called Goonshoe
Classics Volume 6, which had wings over Dagenham and the rent
collectors on it, both of which, as I say, were recorded on the
same night. So it had the same energy.
You could you could, you could suggest.
So I just wanted to talk about these TV shows that Peter
Sellers did. Peter made these in
collaboration with Eric Sykes and they they had other guests
on like the singer and Shelton and Lita Rosa.
OK, they would like variety shows I suppose.
In which Sellers was the the star, but the reaction was
mixed. 11 reviewer said as soon as a goonism takes visual form,
it ceases to provide its own unique amusement.
Peter Sellers tried hard as Major Blood Knock but didn't
succeed. What is pure fantasy when heard
is poor fooling when seen, which is a OK, you know, a bit PO
faced but savaged. Yeah.
So it looks like Sellers. Yeah.
So Sellers played or did a sketch or sketches with as the
Blood Knock character. And and another reviewer said
that the bombastic boomer of the Goon show who blusters
tremendously on the air was much too subdued on TV.
And yeah, and I was thinking about that.
So I was thinking if if Sellers is going to is going to transfer
a goon show character to television, I suppose Blood
knocks the obvious one. You say that though, but in my
head, in the visuals, in my head, I have just always seen
blood knock as basically Arthur Lowe in Dad's Army.
Like I've always seen blood knock looking like Mannering.
Really. Yeah, it's interesting.
I suppose I can't divorce the character of Mannering from
Arthur Low to to visualise Blood Knock looking like him.
Yeah, just that sort of that sort of, you know, slightly a
little bit rotund, quite short and a bit blustery.
And that's just that's just kind of how I saw him in my head.
So when you say when you say Sellers is doing blood knock on
screen, I just sort of go. But when I see Sellers in
uniform, it's immediately Mandrake in Doctor Strangelove.
Strangelove yeah, yeah. Well, because, OK, so there's
been, I'm sure Sellers probably did blood knock on TV quite a
bit in the 50s because, you know, he was always on TV.
Very little remains today. But there's there's 2 examples
of him as Blood Knock that on the screen that do exist.
Have you ever seen the film Down Among the Z Men?
I I haven't, but it's one of those things that pops up from
time to time and it says the Goon Show movie and you go,
yeah, I sort of sort of mildly puzzled, but no, I've not seen
it. Yeah, it's not it's not great
made. I think it's made 52 and when
Michael Bent team was still with them, Yeah, it's just a bit of a
hot mess. But, but Sellers plays blood
knock. But it's, I think it's Colonel
Blood Knock. They call him and he's just,
it's just basically Sellers who was quite stocky back then
anyway, a bit of salt and pepper in the hair and a moustache and
kind of the voice. But it's it's, it's not really
the blood Knock voice. It's it's a very, very mannered
blood knock voice. It doesn't.
It doesn't work. Any news out of him, right?
Not so. The new officer left on some
hours ago. What the devil are we supposed
to do? An intake of every service you
here at any moment. And I've got no agitant.
I know, Sir. And now to cap it, there's this
VIP fellow on his way too. And he's way too.
Where, Sir? Here, man, here.
I can't think what the War Office is up to.
They send me a a civilian scientist, a nurse, but they
don't send me an agitant. And then there was a in 58,
there was a This is your life, Harry Seekin OK.
And right at the end, Sellers and Milligan turn up dressed up
and they sort of sort of like a stage invasion.
And Milligan's got really out like a long night shirt.
And I think it World War 2 helmet on, I think memory.
And Sellers is clearly dressed meant to be Blood Knock.
He's wearing a pith helmet and like, a military uniform,
military jacket and and long shorts and boots.
Although he doesn't, we don't hear him speak.
He's clearly meant to be Blood Knock.
Yeah, but, but anyway, yeah. So this, this, these, these two
TV specials, they, they weren't, you know, universally panned.
Another, another TV reviewer said that Peter Sellers and Eric
Sykes gave the ITV weekend the best possible send off.
Scriptwriter Sykes was at his best and found an ideal medium
writing for Sellers. Their effort was a happy
compromise between a straight variety show and the complete
lunacy of the goons. And as well as Blood Knock,
Sellers played William Mate Cobblers from the Goon show.
He also did, it would appear, played a did a sketch, at least
one sketch as a Shakespearean actor called Pew's Nogbart.
And he donned a black wig and false nose to portray Richard
the Third, which he would go on to do 8 years later when doing A
Hard Day's Night on that Beatles TV special.
The music of Lennon and McCartney, I think it was 65,
maybe 66. And all these guest stars
performed Lennon and McCartney songs.
Oh, OK. And Sellers went on dressed as
Richard the Third or Laurence Olivia dressed as Richard the
Third, if that makes sense. Yes, he was.
He was playing playing Laurence Olivier, playing Richard the
Third and he performed A Hard Day's Night, but it's sort of
like a as a soliloquy rather than he didn't sing it and it
was actually released as a single.
Oh, wonderful. What's all this, John?
It's a piece of salad. It has been a hard day's night
and I have been working like a dog.
It's been a hard day's night. I should be sleeping like a log.
But when I get home to you, I find the things that you do will
make me feel all right. You know, I work all day to get
you money, to buy you things, and it's worth it just to hear
you say you'll give me everything.
That's why I love to come home 'cause when I get you a loan,
you know I feel OK. And yeah, one of the one of the
sketches had Sellers playing a paranoid police inspector
investigating a poison pen letter case.
So yeah, so. So, you know, it was Sellers
really pushing to develop his career outside of the radio.
And as I said, Harry, Harry's come back from Jamaica and he
began that week he began filming the film Davey Davey is a sweet
little film that Harry starred in.
And it's typically considered to be or generally considered to be
the last of the great Ealing comedies, or at least say great
the last proper Ealing comedy. All right, and Spike around this
time, Spike had been in in January 57.
He he'd been a guest star on the Petula Clark show and it was
reported in the, the, the newspapers that he was adapting.
Now I I've never, I've never read this.
The Snow Goose by Paul Gallico. No, never heard of.
It he was adapting it in for for television and he said that he
he told the newspapers the script calls for a gross man who
sings. I immediately thought of Harry
Secombe and Harry said he'd be delighted.
But this TV adaptation didn't seem to get off the ground.
He he was writing it with his old wartime comrade Harry
Edgington, but it didn't get picked up by the BBC.
However, in 1975 he did adapt the story for an LP with the
London Symphony Orchestra. But, but there you go.
So that's where the goons were. Well, that's what they were
doing in January 57. It's not.
Sounds like a really sort of sort of jobbing week, doesn't
it? You know, they're all at this
point, the Goon Show is kind of this, the thing that they've got
to do to earn the money, but they're trying to push all the
other things at the same time apart from Seccom.
It was on holiday. Well, yeah, but then he he comes
back to make a film or he starts making a film.
Sellers would be I, I didn't check actually, Sellers was, was
either about to start filming the Naked Truth or it was around
this time that he'd have been doing that.
So that all of them and and Milligan, you know, he's got
other interests as well, but I think Sellers in seeking
particularly were really well, obviously were very ambitious
and and really career driven and but but but you know, at the
end, at the end of the day, the the Goon show was still
important to them. And so so we have this this this
episode, the rent collectors. Now it's got a special guest,
which is the actor Bernard Miles.
And had you been aware of Bernard Miles before?
No, I hadn't. And you know what, I, I did at
least do some research for this podcast and I went and I went
and had a look and you know, I started with Wikipedia and
worked my way forward. And then I just sort of looked
and I was like, then I don't think there's absolutely
anything where I will have crossed over with him at all.
I looked through all the films and I mean, you know, I like an
old film, but quite a lot of these I was like, no, I've never
heard of any of them or I've seen remakes that I didn't
realize were remakes or things like that.
I think possibly. I see it says he was uncredited
in Doctor at Large, which is probably the one thing I would
have seen. Oh wow.
OK. OK, because, you know, I, I'm a
big fan of the Carry On films and the Doctor films and the,
you know, they, they have no place in today's society, but I
do love them. Well, carry on, Emmanuel.
Doesn't some of the others do. Carry on abroad.
Come on. That's still that that that.
I think that should be shown prime time.
Every Christmas Day. Well, no Bedded Miles, I
suppose. He bet he was best known.
He started this theatre called the Mermaid Theatre and worked
with Spike. Spike worked with him quite a
bit in the 60s and 70s productions of Treasure Island,
things like that. But yeah, he was, I mean, he's
an interesting guy. I, I don't know a lot about him.
I watched him. I'm a huge fan of Hitchcock and
he's quite prominent in the remake.
Hitch. Hitch, Hitchcock's remake of his
own film, The Man Who Knew Too Much, which was he made in 55, I
think, starring Jimmy Stewart and what's the name, Doris Day.
And Bernard Miles actually plays the villain in that, although,
although he's to all intents and purposes, he's a very mild
mannered Englishman, right until he's not.
It's quite weird because the, the guy that you hear on this
Goon show episode, it's it's completely the guy that you see
on screen and the man who knew too much.
There's no way that it's the same man.
It's just, it's just weird. There's a complete, you know,
because Bernard Miles is from the West Country of England.
You know, he's, he's got that, that sort of that, that, that
West Country accent, that Burr. You're tiptoeing around going
who are. Yes, I am, I am.
And I didn't want to use the Y word, but in in the man who knew
too much. He's like I say, he's just like
a mild mannered man from the Home Counties with spectacles
and looks very respectable. Allow me to show you, will you?
You use only the first two fingers in thumb of the right
hand. Don't use the other two fingers
and always the left hand in the lab.
I see. May I show you?
Can I hold it? I'll hold it for you.
But he also he worked with Sellers on smaller show on earth
that that great film. He he worked with Sellers on
that he was he Sellers and Margaret Rutherford were a trio
of old people that maintained an old flea pit cinema.
OK. He was also in Heavens Above the
Sellers starred in and yeah, he was friendly with, I gather he
was friendly with the goons in general.
Now, he wasn't meant to be in this show at all, right?
So the part. So he plays the magistrate.
Allow me. All dears know that.
Does everybody know he's uncomfortable?
Nobody's worried about you, Aaron.
Keep away from them pigs. We don't want them to catch
anything before the cattle show. Right now, I declare that I will
try the prisoner fairly and that I am entirely unbiased one way
or the other. Right.
Right here. Good, Tom.
Just run across the road and get some good strong rope.
Now then, Mr. Spriggs, did the jury swear?
The host? Yes, Sir.
Did the prisoner swear?
I never heard such language. You kind of feel like that was
meant to be sellers. It was meant to be sellers.
Yeah, it was in the script. It's got it.
The, the direction is Peter and then the brackets birded Miles
type and then and then the, the, the lines.
So what happened was I don't know whether this was just happy
accident or or what, but birded Miles had just gone to watch the
recordings. As I say, there was 2
recordings. He was in the audience and and
they just decided, I guess they, they recorded the, you know,
wings over dagging him first and then between the two recordings
perhaps, or maybe, I don't know, maybe before the recordings
began, they asked Bernard whether he'd mind guest starring
as the magistrate and the rent collectors.
And he agreed. And he said he'd, he'd said he'd
appear for free. He said he didn't want paying.
He said absolutely, I'll do it. You know, don't worry about
paying me. But Pat Dixon, the producer,
actually insisted on paying him like a nominal fee because I
think technically they had to. Not quite sure why, but yeah, it
was just a spur of the moment decision to include him.
And it works very well. It works very well.
It's quite, I don't know whether, see, this is the thing,
the the fact that in the script it requires A birded Miles type
character. It's just an incredible
coincidence that he happened to be in the audience.
Wonderful serendipity, yeah. I, I, I suspect that there's,
there's more to it than that. I don't know whether he was
invited along, perhaps I don't know.
But but, but officially the official story is that it was
just spur of the moment decision.
It's always nice when you get when you get a guest on the
goons I I think especially when they're in a position of power,
because then it adds gravitas to that position of power because
it's not one of the usual voices that you're listen used to
listening to. Well, yeah, I mean, the the most
the the the best one is Valentine Dial.
I think he just, he just works extremely well.
There are certain guests that don't quite work.
Dennis Price in the the Robin Hood episode I don't think works
very well. If you're if you have the
ability to get Valentine dial with the voice that that man
has, then you pay the money. Yes, I think he was in about 8-9
green shows something like that over the years.
So he was the most prolific guest for sure.
And also altogether everyone listening at home.
He was in Doctor Who. Oh.
Yeah. What was that?
What was the was he in a couple of Doctor Who's?
He was in a couple of stories but playing the same character.
He was played the what at the time was called the The Black
Guardian, but has now been rebranded to The Dark Guardian.
OK, yeah, yeah, so, OK, so let's give the let's give the the
synopsis for this show and then just talk about bits we like or,
or whatever. It's Moriarty and grit pipe.
Answer and advertisement by Henry Crum who will pay £1000 to
anyone willing to collect the 8000 lbs eleven and four pence
in back rent from Death Grange, Slaughterhill.
But it's more than their life's worth to go there.
They call Neddy, who's never heard of the place, into
collecting the rents for £5. The bus won't stop at
Slaughterhill so Ned is forced to jump off.
He lands in the canal and gives little Jim the first opportunity
to say he's swollen in the water.
OK, we'll come back to that. Great part of Moriarty happened
by in a motor boat, but he doesn't have the money to pay
their rescue fee. He's forced to swim to the shore
and climb out there. He's arrested by a constable for
swimming in the canal, thereby contravening the bylaws.
The Court of Little Filth Mark sentences him to be hanged.
When Ned insists on appealing, he's sent to the Squire at
death. Grange there, Blue Bottoms
exercising with echoes. The Squire is a drink crazed at
Blood Knock, who thinks he's in Afghanistan and that Neddy is a
King's messenger. Blood Knock agrees to sign a
reprieve for Neddy for a consideration.
The sum of 8000 lbs. Eleven and four pence.
So there we go. OK, so I just wanted to set the
scene. Now.
OK, it's the first official appearance of the little Jim
character. And oh boy, does little Jim get
wheeled out in this story. It's it's about.
I think I counted 5 five times. Yeah, I.
Think so. 4-5 times. Yeah, Yeah.
Oh dear children. Look what has happened to poor
Uncle Harry. Wings Over Dagenham, which was
recorded earlier in the evening. He does actually unofficially
appear in that because at one point in the show, Milligan just
sort of like Mumbles into the microphone.
He's full in the water or something like that.
And it makes Harry break up because he knew what was coming
the next show. But yeah, it's, it's a real
concerted effort by Spike. Oh, the, the script for this is
Spike, Spike and Larry Stevens, by the way.
But it's it's a really concerted effort to engineer a catch
phrase. And it kind of worked.
It did. I mean, it's probably what I
would say probably one of the most popular catchphrases to
come out of the show. Absolutely, absolutely.
In the script for this, the character wasn't called Little
Jim. It was just written as very dull
young child. OK, now what do you think of?
OK, what do you think of catch phrases in general?
Do you have do you have an opinion?
Look, it's once you've got a catch phrase, then everyone
expects it. It's it's like, you know, when
Blue Bottle comes on and suddenly everyone in the
audience spends the next two minutes clapping and you just
go, can we get on with the catch phrases?
Catch phrases are funny and they're funny for a reason.
But I think, yeah, you, they can become, they can become a
millstone around your neck. And I, I get the feeling that
Spike Milligan felt that towards the end.
I think he felt the millstone of the catchphrases that he had
built. I think so one, one thing that I
find interesting about Little Jim in this is that he's kind of
in a sort of meta thing. Little Jim is meant to be a
member of the audience. Peter Sellers is talking to the
children who are watching the show.
But then of course, Little Jim becomes an actual character
within the show have leading his own little life.
Again, this is this is a reference lost, lost to time
now, but Sellers is meant to be playing a person called Uncle
Mac when he's when he's doing that bit.
And Uncle Mac was a children's presenter on the radio and I
think he was head of children's broadcasting on the BBC for a
number of years. So yeah, he was just, he was
someone who he presented record requests for children on the
something called Children's Hour in the 50s.
And that's that's the character that Sellers is briefly playing
there. That topical humour.
A topical humour, yes. And, and do you know where the
where the idea of, you know, saying he's fallen in the water
comes from? No, I'm assuming it's it's
spewed forth from Spike Milligan's head somewhere, and I
I often think that Spike Milligan's sense of humour makes
sense to no one but himself a lot of the time.
Well, it actually comes from real life, According to him.
And, and, and Spike was so contradictory and, and you never
know whether these things are true or accurate or they're,
they're a mishmash of different memories or whatever.
But I'm just trying. I'm just dredging this from my
memory. I think the, the story he tells
us that he was, maybe it was when they were coming over from
India to to England the first time, you know, when his family
moved from India, something along the lines of there was a
swimming pool on the boat that they're on.
And a child had fallen in the swimming pool.
And, and another child, like a little girl, ran up to Spike's
brother and sort of tugged his sleeve and he turned around and
this child said he's fallen in the water, right?
And and that's where Spike said he got the idea from, but seems
a bit. You you can sort of now I've
been told that I do sort of you sort of get that that voice that
he's doing there is of that small child who is sort of
talking under their breath, like trying to get wants to say
something but doesn't want to talk like that's.
Just really, really. Yeah.
So yeah, so little Jim. He would he would go on to to
appear in most shows of the eighth series and and subsequent
series. I think they kind of, he kind of
dropped it around the middle of the ninth series, perhaps.
But then he brings it back for the last green show of all and
it it really is shoe horned in and gets a huge round of
applause. I I doesn't remember that.
Doesn't he actually, when it gets to that point, he like
there's a pause and he leans in and just very deliberately says
it. Yes, Yeah.
It just makes me think of that episode of The Simpsons Bart
gets famous where he inadvertently appears on
television and says the line. I didn't.
I didn't do it. Yeah, yes.
Say the line, Bart. Yes, yes, like it's every.
That's all they want from him. Just say the line.
And that's how I felt feel about Milligan leaning into the
microphone for the last screen show of all when he says he's
fallen in the water. He might as well have just said
there's your 30 pieces of silver.
So, OK, what overall, what's your feeling about this show?
I, I'd love this episode. I, I it's one of the earliest
shows I heard and I absolutely adore it.
But it's it's not that I don't To me, it should be more popular
among fans than it actually is. I.
Was this one that you you remembered well?
I honestly, no, I didn't remember it that well.
And I think it's because it's, as I say, like when I was a kid,
the stuff I was exposed to was the stuff that they marketed
very heavily. You know, the stuff that was
easy to get in cassette form, stuff like Luggy Strikes
Britain, Napoleon's Piano, Dreaded Better Putting, Hurler
of Bexhill on Sea, that sort of thing.
So I didn't remember this one. Listening to it was definitely,
it was nice. It felt fresh.
I mean, I'm sure I've listened to it at some point, but not to
the extent that I have some of my more favorite episodes.
I enjoy it, and this might be a controversial viewpoint.
It feels like too I it feels like Spike Milligan had two
different ideas that he didn't quite work to a finish and so
put both of them together. Also, it's a bit like a day in
the life. 2 ideas bolted together.
It kind of feels like that. So I mean you've got this this
one idea of the rent collectors, right, which I I you know, I
like that idea that farming out rent collecting.
That's a really natural thing for grip pipe and Moriarty to
then foist on Nettie. That's fine.
And I like the end of the story where you've got the you've got
blood knock living in this, you know, manner and he still thinks
he's out in the desert. That's those two points
logically go together, as do the two points of Neddy landing in
the river and being done for swimming and then going in front
of a magistrate. Those those two points go
together. And I think those are two
different stories that Spike has sort of put together because he
needed something to get from. He needed to get from the rent
collecting to finding out that blood knock, because I mean
Blood Knock thinking he's in the desert and not having paid his
rent. That's totally logical in that
sort of goon show logic, but him also being the Squire of the
Manor feels a bit bolted on. Yeah, I never thought of that.
See if you'd asked me, I just said, OK, the first, the first
two acts, if you like a one show and then the last act, certainly
the when blood knock appears, that's that to me sounds like
it's it's a complete gear change.
Yeah. But what you're saying is that
the, the beginning premise going to collect rent and then the
blood knock sequence, they go together, but then the bit with
Nettie in the water and the the, the trial that that goes
together and then yeah, yeah, sort of stapled them all
together. Yeah, and the the interaction
between the interaction between Eccles and Blue Blue Bottle is
also something that you just like.
Spike has written this joke and he doesn't know where else to
put it and he needs 2 minutes in this story so he puts that joke
in there. Well, he needs, he needs to have
a sequence with Echoes and Blue Bottle.
Yeah, because that's because that's the, that's the the law.
They need to be in it. It's it's a very rare goon chair
that doesn't have Blue Bottle in it.
Certainly not Echoes. One, did you start this muscle
type? I'm starting it as soon as I can
get this brown paper puzzle open.
Oh, that's my trousers. Good look.
There it is, a Monroe chest expander after Miller
recommended me tradition. They must have had the view from
the bridge then. It says here, guaranteed to put
two inches on your chair. Or let me see how big your chest
is before you start. Lift up your arms.
Yeah, let me help you. Let me see.
Now. 8 inches including shoulders.
Yeah. 8 inches, Curry. If I knew my chest was as big as
that, I would not have sent for this.
Really, Sir? 8 inches doesn't bury bulge, you
know. But all.
No. But I was breathing out.
When I breathe in, it is different, you know.
Look No 7 1/2. See the difference?
Yeah, do you like those Blue Bottle Echo sequences when
they're just sort of riffing? I, I mean, I, I like it better
when they, when they work in with the story, which a lot of
them, you know, I think there are a lot of stories where they
do work well. But yeah, this one just felt, I
mean, it was a fun get like it was a fun gag.
Lift up your arms and each time it's shorter.
That's a that's a very, very good gag.
Yeah, this only it's only through listening to this for
the for preparing for this episode, right that I actually
realized that, say, blue bottles using a chest expander.
Yeah, isn't he? And it's and he calls it a
Monroe chest expander. And I and I didn't, I didn't
connect for the long, you know, for all these years, I've never
connected. What he meant was Marilyn
Monroe. Chest.
Expander and because I'd heard the the version that how do I
put this they talk about Arthur Miller.
Yes, there's that. Wonderful.
He probably got a view from the bridge and you just you expect
someone in the background clapped and went way.
Well, yeah, but the version that I grew up listening to, which
was on the LP. All right.
The Arthur Miller bit had been cut out.
So all I heard was Monroe chest expander.
That was it. There was no other reference.
So I just, I just took it to be a brand, an actual brand of
chest expanders called Monroe. On the in the script, the line
is, oh, look, it's the Monroe chest expander.
Arthur Miller recommended me this, you know, and then Echols
goes, Oh yeah, he must know all about chest development, you
know, and they and they decided not to not to use that line too
risque. This is totally awesome.
Have you heard the one about when Marilyn Monroe met Arthur
Miller's parents? She was terrified because she
didn't think. She didn't think that she was
intellectual enough because, you know, Arthur Miller and
everything, and she needed to go to the bathroom.
And she was so worried that she'd make a noise.
She was paranoid, you know, when you're in that situation.
So she turned the tap on, went to the bathroom and then, you
know, finish what she's doing, wash her hands, left.
And Arthur Miller asked his dad the next day.
So what did you think of Marilyn?
Nice girl, pisses like a horse. But it's funny you mentioned the
vinyl because I, I just wanted to say at this point, one thing
I, because I, as I say, I love audio.
One thing I've always been fascinated by is how audio has
been edited for home release, especially vinyl.
So like I love it when ATV show gets released on vinyl because
then I can like because say faulty towers, I have all the
faulty towers on vinyl so I know where all the beats are.
But I, I, it's always so interesting to find out how
they've cut it to make it fit in that like 22 minute like vinyl
gap. Within the Fawlty Towers LP's
you've got Andrew Sachs playing Manuel, sort of linking the
scenes, haven't you? Yeah, some of them anyway.
I've been wanting to get Demon Records, have done a complete
set of Blackadder on vinyl and I've been dying to get.
It's about about 400 bucks, but I've been dying to get it.
So I can, you know, just, I just love the feel of when they put
stuff on audio. It's like Big Finish puts like
Doctor Who audio on vinyl, and I've got a few of those and it's
just, it's always so interesting to me.
What's the appeal? OK, I can understand why they
would release TV shows on vinyl pre VHS because it was the only
way that people could, you know, access that stuff.
Obviously, yeah. What would be the appeal of it?
Post VHS if you know what I mean.
One, it's the it's the collectability largely, I'll
admit, you know, especially now that when you've got the you can
get vinyl with all sorts of amazing colours and things like
that. Like I've got a friend that
collects all of the like the blood filled vinyl that he can
like it's got like red liquid blood inside it.
Yeah, it's it, it looks dodgy as hell, but it's it's very cool.
But another thing I suppose is for me, what I love about
collecting vinyl is that it's a very, it's a very physical
experience. You know, you take the vinyl
out, you put it on the record, you sit down, I'm going to
listen to this. Whereas if you put something on
your phone, you'll, you know, you forgetting what you're doing
like it's a, it's a very, in the moment having vinyl, you know,
that sort of, you know, for something that's recorded
digitally, yeah, you're not going to get like that fidelity
because it's being recorded digitally then put onto an
analogue form. It's not like something that was
recorded in analogue then put on analogue.
And, you know, if you'd listen to it in digital, it's sort of
clipped at either end, yeah. When am I going to park this
plane? In Later.
Later. Not in later.
I'm sure you're not. Post chat.
Yeah, y'all get your post chat later.
Well, it's all right for some. You're going now.
Get back in the wings. There will be no Brandy left for
you then. Now, Mariota, will you do?
Will you do the talking while I take the part of Mr. Crown?
All right. Goodbye.
Now. Are you ready?
I'm ready now. What do you want?
We want the job as rent collectors.
Yes. Where the job is.
Yes. Collecting the rent from some
tenants about. You see, they owe us 8000 lbs.
Eleven and four pence in a rear. In a rear of which 1000 LB is
yours. If you can collect it 1000 lbs.
We owe you. We'll do it.
Poor Nettie just keeps getting sort of catapulted from, you
know, thing to thing again. The, the, that's what I was
saying about the, it feels like 2 separate things.
It feels a bit weird to have grip pipe and Moriarty sending
Neddy off on this thing and then immediately finding him while
they're in a boat. The you telling me that this
week they, you know, they had to sort of rush and do things
together so they could have a couple of weekends off.
It does kind of feel like he got 2 scripts knocked him together
so that they could go have the weekend off.
No, Neddy, what's all the noise about?
I have it on good authority that I'm drowning.
For a fee of one and six, we can salvage you.
Right? Thank you.
And here is a waterproof receipt.
Just a thing for my submerged accountant.
And now I'm going down for the third time.
The second. The second time.
That will be another seven points.
What for? Keeping counter the number of
times you go down. Thank you.
Now please help me out. I've paid you 2 shillings
already, 2 and a penny Neddy. And that will be another half
pound for keeping your account. Now let us help you into the
boat. You want to be taken ashore?
Of course. 1 shilling piece. I I haven't any more money.
No more money. The whole middle section with
the, the court and with, with Bird and Miles.
I think that works really well. It's interestingly the the so
when Neddy is thrown into the water, thereby thereby giving
little Jim an opportunity, of course.
And he's he, he, he forced, he's forced to swim to the bank and
climb out and he gets arrested by a constable.
Now in the script it was meant to be William as the as the
constable but instead Sellers plays him as the the character
Swede which is his Cornish character.
It's what I like about it is it's Cornish, but he's also
doing a sort of sort of turning up his mouth and like rolling
the sound around in there. So we showed really, and he's
having real trouble towards the end where he's like, he's not
doing hard consonants anymore and you can hear him sort of
struggling knowing that he's not making any sense but.
It's just occurred to me as well, just occurred to me as I'm
speaking now, why he decided not to play it as William as in the
script. And the reason for that is
because he was meant to be playing the magistrate, and the
magistrate's voice would have been the voice that we hear.
Of. Course.
So because he doesn't need to play the magistrate, he decides
to play the constable as that. Damn you all, I'm going to do
this voice after all. This character in this, which is
a nod to a radio show that Sellers used to appear in called
Raise a Laugh. Have you heard of Raise a Laugh?
No, I. Haven't actually.
So there was a comedian called Ted Ray, extremely popular
comedian, and he had his own radio series called Raise a
Laugh. OK, OK, RAY, Apostrophe S.
Oh yes, I get the joke now. You.
Get it now? It's a play of words, you see.
And, and Sellers was a voice man on that.
He played various characters, including a kind of a prototype
Blue Bottle in the early in the early years.
Yeah, but probably his his most celebrated character, seller's
most celebrated character in in Raise a Laugh, which I think he
was in, I think he quit Raise a Laugh around 56.
I want to say it's that late, you know, But he, he played this
character called Crystal Jolly Bottom, which is such a 1950s
radio comedy. Name isn't it?
He was this kind of blousy sort of Margaret Rutherford stroke
barrel Reed type voice that he would do and she was always
turning up and raised a laugh. Now he bring, he he reprises
that voice for the conductress on the bus.
Oh yes. Fast, please.
Oh, fast. Please.
Not a hill. Please.
It's not a real. You're asking for trouble.
Yeah, well, no, I'm asking for a ticket.
You're too tall for me. 41, please. 4 pence.
It's 6 pence to slaughter reel. Oh, right.
Oh, it'll let you know that it's actually 9th pence.
Little dizzy, nervous. I'm not even the conductorist on
this. Yes, it's a good gag in that
one, isn't it? It's a good gag.
Now that's a gag that's been repeated that's been used in the
Goon Show before. I think it's in the silent
Bugler from top of me head and the whole the whole bit at the
end with Blood Knock. It's to me to me that's the the
weakest part of the the show. I like it right up until the end
of the the Blue bottle and and Eccles scene.
And I find the last sort of 5 minutes or so quite quite
tiresome. Yeah, yeah.
I don't know why, I think it is because of this whole thing that
like you said, it feels like it's it is 2 shows together and
this one, the last bit just doesn't quite work for me.
Yeah, exactly it. It might have worked if there
was something like more worked in to bring them, because what
it feels like is that the that this end section is the middle
section of the story he wanted to write.
He wanted to write another ending that goes after that.
He wanted blood knock to sort of fling them off into another bit.
That's what it feels like to me. I mean, I could be putting way
too much on Spike Milligan and Larry Stevens head, but but I
think that like I, I get the the gag of him constantly saying
fire. That's that's, that's good.
And if it was in the middle of the show and it was resolved in
some way, then that would be fine.
But there's no resolution really to it.
And of course, you've got Spike doing his stereotypical Indian
voice. Yeah.
Yeah, at least it wasn't Singe's
thing they mentioned. They mentioned General Gordon.
Were you aware of General Gordon?
No, I wasn't. Gordon, known as Gordon of
Khartoum, he was like a, a British general who in the
Victorian period and he led British forces in a lot of sort
of regional or colonial hotspots.
So he, he was, he, he was fighting in places like the
Crimea, the Crimean War in China, Egypt and the Sudan as it
was known then. And that's where he died, that
there was a seat, the seat siege of Khartoum, which is where he
met his end in 1885. And I just want to read this
bit, read a little bit about him.
And one of his biographers wrote of him.
He was a violent manic figure, an extreme egotist, A repressed
homosexual disgusted by his own inclination, and one who
translated his disgust into a violence manic in its
manifestation and characterized him as a as a sadist.
And he personally administered both corporal and capital
punishment and kept the heads of executed criminals on his desk.
What's your comment on that? Sorry, if for a second it felt
like for some reason I was the British colonial spokesperson,
then it's would you like to comment on that?
What? As if I am in some way
responsible for the British colonial machine?
Oh no. Yeah, it's just, it's just.
I mean, he sounds like a laugh, don't he?
Doesn't he? Yeah.
I don't quite know what the, you know, it says about the
repressed homosexuality and all that sort of thing.
It's kind of suggesting that that is what caused him to be
the way he was. But I mean, the thing about it
is that the fact that they like, they lead with that as like in
the list of slurs, they lead with that.
Yes, yes. Oh dear.
I mean, I suppose, yeah. One of the things, the thing
about the Goon show, I suppose, is not that they actually talked
about what this man did, but the thing about the green shows, I
suppose you can't really divorce it from it's time.
And especially the military references.
I, you know, I have to sort of stop myself and remember that
they all served in the Army. And, you know, there's a lot of
references there that are just going to be a little bit lost on
me from time to time. Yeah, also Aldous Huxley gets a
mention. I did hear that and I thought
that's a bit specific and you could hear a couple of people in
the audience had a bit of a whoop and you thought, oh,
there's one in tonight. Fans are in.
Tonight, he's in. Tonight.
I went to school with a with a boy called Elders.
OK. Whose parents were old hippies,
So. So I guess they must have been
fans of the Doors of Perception or something.
Like that's where they're named, named him Elders.
But yeah, it's just, it's just the throwaway reference to
Elders, actually, which doesn't really get developed at all.
Yeah, yeah, I do love a good throwaway line.
I like when Echoes comes through the door and there's a
smattering of applause and Spike counts how many people are
clapping. Yes, because it's not used to
it. It's normally Blue Bottle gets
the gets the applause echoes does sometimes, but but not very
often. Yeah, and and you do get a
slight very unusual moment of, of, of slight Echols irritation
when he says 8 inches, is it very big, you know, bottle?
I, I, I think as far as gags that I like, but I think again,
the, the start of the story, the start of the episode is really
strong. And I I do love the little back
and forth between Henry and Min and the you never know who it
might not be. I'd better see who isn't there.
That that joke is really just very fun writing.
I remember when I first heard the show and the bit about the
cat wants to go out. What makes you think that is
just put his hat? In Cat on.
I remember thinking that's the most hilarious joke I've ever
heard, but it's it's just, it's just a variation of one of those
whorey old musical jokes. Right.
Absolutely. Put the cat, put the cat out.
Why he's on fire, you know, it's just.
Well, a lot of, I mean, I mean, I don't want to just, I don't
want to sort of bring the Goon Show down.
But quite a lot of what they do is just bands.
It is just bands. I just for as an audiophile, as
I say, you know, I do a bit of sound engineering.
I want to know from a production standpoint what they were doing
for Cron writing at the beginning of the episode.
It sounds like someone ripping paper.
And it sounds to me like someone has got a quill and is literally
scraping it across a microphone and.
And commissioners for oaths, such an antiquated job title,
but people still, you still get commissioners for oaths, I think
to this day. Well, I mean, people still sell
off. People still sell off debts to
be collected, you know, by someone else.
I mean, I'm not sure they do it with rents as much as, I mean,
these days they send a boys round, don't they?
You know they send around the bailiffs.
Do you know what I didn't check? I meant to check.
I'm wondering if the around this time, 57, there was a
controversial landlord called, can't remember his first name,
but his surname was Rachman. And he, he owned all these sort
of slum tenements in London and was really sort of squeezing
the, the tenants for rent and stuff like that.
And it became quite scandalous just in terms of the condition
of these these dwellings and that the money that he was
extorting from the, from the tenants and that sort of thing.
I'm wondering whether that was perhaps in the news around this
time as well, because that. Very possibly I.
Mean the the name Rachman has has gone gone down as as being
sort of shorthand for for a conniving landlord type person
you know well, I think I think Richie calls his landlord
Rachman in an episode of Boston and 40 years later.
I was watching, I was watching the first live show of that the
other night. It still stands up.
Funny enough I was talking to a friend about that.
The other just the other day we were watching something together
and it had a what was it we were watching?
Can't remember but it had a blow up doll.
Sex doll. Yeah.
And it looked exactly like Monica.
The first bottom stage. It's it's.
Funny, isn't it? It's it's I mean, probably for
the best. It's it's it's stopped being a a
sight gag. But in comedy shows it was it
used to pop up all the time. Did I mean, even in red dwarf
they did a an inflatable woman gag.
Oh. It's in Only Fools and Horses.
There's a, there's a whole bunch of them.
Yeah, instead. Of only fools and horses.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's funny. There's a great, there's a great
podcast called Betwixt the Sheets with Doctor Kate Lister.
And she did a great episode on It's all about sex.
And she did a great episode on inflatable dolls.
And she said there's this myth that people think that they were
invented by sailors at sea in the 18th century.
She's like, the truth is far more banal.
The sailors were much more happy to have sex with one another
than they needed a doll to. Wasn't there, Wasn't there, you
know, the whole thing about mermaids, Wasn't there something
about sailors? Oh, God, this, this.
Because this is really. It's gone, it's gone off the
goons. I know the only mermaids I know
were from freak shows where they would, they would stick a
mummified cat to a preserved fish and call it a mermaid.
And yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fake taxidermy.
They'd tour it round with, you know, that sort of freak shows
of the, the, you know, the early 20th century, that's like, well,
sorry, late 19th century. By the time the earlier 20th
century came round, it sort of died off a bit.
I would think the. Thing about say I said about the
sailors and the mermaids, I'm sure, I'm sure there's some
story back in the day, back in the old days, sailors doing
stuff with manatees. I know that sailors used to say
that the manatees were really, really attractive because they
have sort of skin coloured and they've got big, apparently they
have big breasts. I mean, I've watched many nature
documentaries and that they've not really, they've not turned
me on or anything, you know. And Stephen Fry goes, oh, you
can see why. And you go, really, Stephen, can
you? Sorry, listen this we've really,
really stumbled off the path. We have, We have.
I think what I was going to say was, yeah, it it's very possible
that they were making light of a real issue of, you know, rents,
the taking of rents being sold on.
Because let's face it, this is, this is still, it's 1957.
It's it's not, it's still just post war Britain, right?
Rationing's not like not done yet.
Well, I mean, it's done. I think by that point it was, I
think it was 54, the end of rationing totally, I think.
Yeah, so I mean, they're still living with these things.
But one of my favourite facts of all is that during the period
that the Second World War was on, there was more crime in
Britain than at any other point in its history, which in large
part has led to the career of Anthony Horowitz.
Oh, right, the the the the the writer.
Yes, the man who wrote Foyle's War, is it?
Someone told him that oh, there's more crime in Britain
during the second war than any other time and he just went
right. OK, I'll get 7 Series out of
this. OK, wasn't Frank Frankie Fraser
like a major criminal during the war?
They were all over the place. I'm not sure about Frankie
Fraser specifically. Sure he was.
I'm just, I'm just, I'm just staring back to manatees, by the
way. Not just a manatee floating
through your vision. Well, no, no, I'm just, it's
just there's a reference to Neddy inflating his Mae W Did
you get that reference? I, I heard it when it came past
and it took me a little what it, it's one of those things where
I'm not a native, not a native cockney, but eventually sort of
your brain switches on the rhyming slang filter and you go,
ah. So what did you think of a Mae W
was? I assumed it's his life
preserver, his vest. Mae W Vest, yeah.
Yeah, but I think, I don't think it's Cockney Ramystang.
I think it's because it it, it's like it's an inflatable.
Life, of course. The chest.
Expands. Of course.
Expansion. Gang see now, yeah, there's the
yeah, that leads into the the other gag there for a second.
Then when you said that, I thought, well, it's not Polari
or something, is it? Are you a big fan of Julian and
Sandy? Hello, I'm Julian.
This is my friend Sandy. I I love Julian's.
Yes, So it's a boner decor, darling.
We'll put we'll shove a couple of creepers up your trellis.
Who's? That lurking behind that potted
palm. Oh, hello.
I'm Julian and this is my friend Sam.
Thank you. But why are you hiding?
It's not like you 2 to be shy. Don't be strange.
It's Jewel. Mr. Owen.
He's worried about his social bloomers.
The elastic. Gun I I love Julian Sandy and I
I love Polari. I know a little bit of it.
I I talked about it on Lord of Adams Black as well because I I
did the episode of Blackadder with Kenneth Connor and.
Hugh Paddock. Hugh Paddock, yes, the great.
It's a great Hugh Paddock. And how you, you, you almost
feel like you want it to be Kenneth Williams and Hugh
Paddock, but that would have been too much.
Kenneth Connor plays imperious in that absolutely beautifully.
Yeah, Kenneth Williams would have been perfect, though you
say too much. I mean, it was what, the year
before he died. So he, he, he could have, he
could have appeared in it, but I wonder whether he was even
considered. I wonder whether he would even
have been well enough. I mean, from the what I've, you
know, from what I've read from his Diaries and you know that
not bad docudrama biopic with Michael Sheen.
Yeah. Yeah, that was all right.
I liked it better than the Steptoe and Son One, but it's
yeah, he he was not a happy man towards the end.
But as I said on the show, it was one of those things where I
didn't actually connect Hugh Paddock being in Blackadder with
Hugh Paddock being in Round the Horn, which I had listened to
religiously and which is Julian Sandy largely stands up quite a
lot of the rest of Round the Horn does not like the the
fiendish, the fiendish villain Chuen Ginsburg.
You're offending so many people at once there.
And and his lovely, his lovely assistant Lotus Blossom that had
June Whitfield in it, didn't it? It's one of the well, Betty.
Marsden, Betty Marsden was, I don't know, June Whitford may
have been in. I'm not an expert on on that,
but. See, and Betty Marsden just
takes me straight to when, what's his name?
Graham Chapman was having a nervous breakdown in a hotel.
He was running up and down a corridor, yelling Betty Marsden
as quickly as he could. I think I've read that.
Is that in the Palin Diaries? I think it is in the Palin
Diaries. Yeah.
And he would slip little notes on the door saying love, Betty
and he was not another man who was not a happy Bunny.
Yeah, she now Betty Marsden has got to be one of the greatest
one off characters in Carry On History.
She she's that that woman of the annoying laugh in Is it Carry On
Camping. She's in.
As she said, it wasn't I've seen carry on camping.
Terry Scott's wife. How have we got on to this?
Right. I don't know.
It's one of those things. I mean I yeah, if you want some
goon show rewind. Well, I think, I think, I think
to be fair, we've kind of we've kind of covered it with the main
points and and I really want to thank you Karen for for bringing
so much interesting conversation to this.
Show thank you for having me. I podcast, so I, I'm, I'm also,
I'm also disabled and it can, I can struggle with getting doing
the work I want to do a lot of the time.
And I love being asked to do other people's podcasts because
it's great because you get to do all the fun stuff of talking
without having to sit for 8 hours and edit through and do
production and things like that. So thank you do.
You mind me asking in what way you're disabled?
No. SO in a word, I'm not entirely
sure. So I have a neurological
disorder that I the the public health system in Australia is
shocking. So I've been waiting for about a
year now to see a neurologist. But basically my basically I
suffer from her like chronic fatigue, lots of nerve pain.
I have difficulty, I have difficulty walking.
I can't walk without a walking stick and the rest of the time I
have to use a wheelchair. So, and this has been the last
couple of years that this has happened so.
Yeah. So you were perfectly fit and
then suddenly it just kind of. Yeah, exactly.
Anything to do with COVID,
nothing to do with. COVID, Well, possibly my my
doctor has said that apparently research is being done in the
UK, in the US about how long COVID can cause neurological
illnesses similar to Ms. And yeah, so they've thrown up, you
know, they've thrown out a lot of things.
Basically this. The thing is, we don't know, it
could be Ms. could be Parkinson's, could be this,
could be that. And.
But basically, yeah. So, yeah.
So I have to pick and choose what I do these days, which is a
bit of a bugger, but I'm getting, I'm getting better at
working around the things that, you know, I want to do.
I'm doing more writing than I ever used to, which is nice
because that's something I can do in my wheelchair at my desk
or in my armchair or something. So that's so that's nice.
Good. Well, I hope that that there
could be some sort of treatment for you, obviously.
He's he's hoping. Yeah.
I used to walk about 5 KS a day before this happened and now
nowadays, Yeah, I know, but that's fine.
At least you know, I'm still able to do things I want to do
like this. And Lord about is Black and any
other podcasts. I mean, I was on another.
I was on a Doctor Who podcast a couple of weeks ago.
I get around a bit. Good.
It doesn't seem to see if it was.
If it had been me, I think I'd have been an, I'd have had the
black dog on a permanent basis. But you, you, you sound very
upbeat. You sound very you know you're
not letting it get you down which.
Is, I mean, look, that's you're catching me on a good day.
OK, All right. But yeah.
But yes, no, thank you so much for having me.
It has been an absolute pleasure.
And it's just been really nice rediscovering the Goon Show.
Just listening, really listening to the Goon Show again on Blue
Sky again, because I'm a Doctor Who fan.
I follow the writer, Eddie Robson, who I know you've had on
the show before, yes. And literally just yesterday he
posted that he was listening to this story.
So I feel like he's going to then listen to this episode.
So I hope he and anyone else who listened enjoyed what I had to
say about it. Well, he came on game part to
talk about Wings over Dagenham, which was the other shows.
It was wonderful. So there's that.
What's the word? Synchronicity?
I don't know. Yeah.
Karen Lissabe. It's been a fun conversation.
So take care and we'll speak again all.
Right. Thanks so much.
Where be that there Blackbird 2 hoi no where he be.
He knows hoi nose. He knows hoi that Blackbird 2
up, that words are free. Well, thank you very much.
Very kind of you, but save it for the hanging if you don't
mind.