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That part of the only people who
stuff I've sorted pursued and 

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tried to look because the 
running jumping standing still 

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film with her. 
They made, which is got Leo 

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mckern and people like that. 
We dick Lester and you know who 

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ended up doing Hard Day's Night.
So that that sort of and the 

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Beatles were into the goons 
which is the other thing. 

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And there's a strand running 
through there because George 

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Martin produced Beyond The 
Fringe. 

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So there's it's interesting that
you know Yellow Submarine could 

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be a goons record the bit in the
Middle with all the noise. 

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Hello and welcome to Green Pod 
this week. 

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I am extremely lucky to be 
joined by a man who really 

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doesn't need an introduction. 
It is comedian. 

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Al Murray L. 
Join me from his hotel room in 

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Edinburgh. 
He's currently touring with the 

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pub landlord and he and I talked
about all sorts of things, 

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including the goons. 
So I hope you enjoyed the 

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conversation. 
We've got a day off in a we come

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up to Scotland, do some shows. 
So I've actually I've just got 

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clear time and I'm on a writing 
deadline. 

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So you know we anything to avoid
having to write the thing. 

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I've got to write, right? 
What is this is this is this for

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the show, is this something 
separate? 

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Now, I'm doing, we're doing a 
live spitting image stage, show 

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thing next year and that it's 
that right, and which is an 

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incredibly exciting project, but
also really quite quite twisty. 

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Figuring out what we're going to
do, what's going to be in it and

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how you avoid the problem. 
Basically of we can't do the 

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week's news because it's basic. 
That's basically impossible. 

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Yeah, so how you do, how you do 
it at the Zeitgeist to show with

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all the right people in. 
It tells a kind of tells a story

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of our, of our time and all that
sort of things quite quite 

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tricky. 
It's like a fable. 

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So, okay, you know, a journey 
through the modern, the modern 

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world with celebs of politicians
and all that, and And you tell 

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her, you tell her but you tell 
us a big story. 

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But and then and then the inside
that you do, the topical thing. 

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And it's but the interesting 
thing about it is the puppets. 

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But, you know, the puppets are 
life-size, their enormous and 

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you don't get the sense, the 
physicality on the, on the TV on

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the TV's. 
Yeah. 

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You really you really, really do
on a stage in the puppets are 

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incredibly striking so it's 
quite exciting to be doing 

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something where, you know, we 
can have anyone we want in it, 

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we can have We can we can cast 
anybody in it because they're 

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puppets. 
So you could select the Tom 

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Cruising if you want, you know, 
you know. 

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I mean, without having to having
to pay for Tom Cruise, at least 

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at least that's the idea. 
I'll fantastic. 

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So it sounds great. 
So that's going to be a 

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logistical nightmare. 
I would have thought getting all

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that. 
Yeah but I'm just writing it, 

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I'm writing it that that the 
logistical nightmare is fall 

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squarely into the someone else's
problem. 

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Great. 
So and so your innate ability 

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say Dig for victory? 
Yes, yes. 

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We basically, although these 
shows actually, they are 

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actually vestigial remnants of a
tour extension in 2020, that got

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pulled because the pandemic. 
So strictly speaking, these are 

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these are these leagues from a 
very long time ago because 

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because everything got 
everything was thrown up in the 

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air. 
Yeah, so let me say Okay, so the

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last 10 years, if you look back 
in 2012, There was still such a 

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unifying time, really wasn't 
with the Olympics and every and 

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then the last 10 years, there's 
been a lot of fragmentation has 

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been a lot of polarization, and 
yeah, and a lot going on. 

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And how is that affected, sort 
of audience, reaction and 

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response to Bow. 
Well, of landlord, for example, 

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this time to write about is 
brilliant, you know, times of 

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national Unity, what things 
really, really, really, really 

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interesting about them. 
My is we and it you got to be 

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careful with how you play it as 
a comic book but the pandemic 

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for instance offers a subject 
which everyone knows the same 

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fundamental things about. 
Yeah, in a way in a way that, 

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you know, brexit didn't or 
whatever but bricks it was 

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interesting about brexit was 
looking at was a big event and 

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lots of people for it. 
A lot of people are against it 

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and lots of people didn't care, 
and lots of people wanted 

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everyone to shut up about it, 
whatever. 

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But it didn't, it didn't affect 
us. 

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The way the pandemic did where 
we were all locked in our 

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houses. 
And Denis Norden said, have read

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a bit tree of Denis Norden. 
What we need because I was a big

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fan of his and he said something
very interesting about after the

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wall, you had this amazing 
opportunities comedian because 

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you took, there is stuff you 
could talk about. 

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And they'll there was no if you 
talked about a ration card, 

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everyone knew what it was. 
Yeah. 

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If you know and that you you had
this very peculiar He said, you 

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know, obviously as time then 
progressed that faded, but you 

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had this Central experience that
everyone could relate to. 

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And I think we've got a bit of 
that going on with the with the 

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funnily enough. 
For the pandemic. 

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Yeah, just sort of, you know, we
were all locked it up with 

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everyone was locked in the 
house. 

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Is everyone, watch those 
government broadcast about how 

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we had to stay home everyone, 
you know, knows about the 

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vaccination, everyone knows 
about furlough every, you know 

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what I mean? 
Yes, it's yes, it's really 

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really interesting and I think 
that's, I think, partly what's 

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happening in the gun show after 
all, is that they're talking 

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about subject, everyone knows 
about, and that's why they're 

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able to be so sort of crazy 
about it because they're talking

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about the wall. 
Absolutely. 

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We'll come to that in a minute. 
Yeah, Denis Norden. 

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What a man though. 
Yeah it gives. 

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He of correct me if I'm wrong. 
You know this better than me but

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I'm going from memory here 
didn't wasn't he there at the 

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liberation of belsen? 
You know what? 

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I don't know him. 
I mean it may have been. 

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I mean he may have been in the 
he may have been in the unit 

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that digit and and went and 
because people did people did 

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sort of go visit. 
I'm not sure excellent. 

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That's an Second question 
because you know the foot 

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because after all the footprint 
of that on people, you know, is 

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easy is easy to sort of forget. 
Yes. 

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He did. 
He did. 

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Yeah, with Eric Sykes. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
He went there. 

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I've just so I've just Googled 
this, he Norden a company by 

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fellow performers, Eric Sykes 
and Ron Rich went to a nearby 

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prison camp in search of stage. 
Lighting Camp, turned out to be 

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bergen-belsen. 
There you go. 

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Wow. 
Hell and of course, Sykes is 

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another connection with the 
goons. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Lord. 

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Bloody everyone says this about 
you, obviously people love 

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people shouldn't make mistake of
confusing. 

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You with the character of the 
public, do they still do that? 

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These? 
No, not really. 

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Not really. 
And I kind of think God God 

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bless those that do but 
obviously is steeped in history 

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and you studied history at 
Oxford and yeah, I guess it's 

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fair. 
How to say the last? 

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Decade or more. 
A lot of what you've been 

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involved with has been related 
to history or particularly 

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second world war. 
Yes, you've got this podcast. 

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We have ways of making you talk.
Yeah. 

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It's so is that your is the 
second words if it has a second 

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world war is your your topic, 
your subject? 

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Yes. 
I mean and very much because my 

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father was my father's absolute.
It was always absolutely 

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00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:55,900
fascinated by it. 
And, and kind of really the 

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military side of things because 
he was a soldier for bit. 

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And I think he was something 
Really fascinated by also, you 

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know growing up I was born in 
1968 growing up in the 70s. 

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The second world war was sort of
in British culture. 

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I think was was a, was a big 
thing. 

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You know, there was Action, Man,
there was airfix, there was the 

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wrong tournament, there was a, 
there was a sort of peculiar 

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vibrant, you know, the Battle of
Britain films and things are 

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00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:21,000
lots and lots of free movies, 
really? 

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Which when you which, you know, 
when you think about it is 

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obviously completely 
understandable way of Tree 

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digesting something culturally, 
but the fact that it, it really 

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fascinated me. 
But as I've got old, obviously, 

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you come away from the idea that
it's a sort of big adventure 

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with explosions and you, and you
realize what a colossal, massive

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event is, and doing a podcast, 
which I do with James Holland is

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a, you know, who's he's a 
historian. 

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I'm a, I'm an Enthusiast. 
Yeah, the stuff I've learned 

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about stuff all over the world 
and also the realization that 

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really I didn't know anything 
very much about it. 

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At all, not not really. 
I knew some bits but didn't know

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very much about it at all. 
It's the sort of the sheer scale

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00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:10,600
of it as an event, the sheer 
size of it and the fact that, 

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you know, what was happening in 
China went on longer and was as 

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easily as bloody as what went on
in Europe. 

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And also stuff that we just we 
are not at all aware of I think 

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in this country and certainly 
not in our view of the second 

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world war here. 
Yeah, I guess the it for the 

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average person the average Could
really only scratched the 

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surface. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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Because I grew up was born in 
the 70s. 

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I yeah, I was, I was conscious 
of things going on in the 80s. 

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Let's put it that way. 
Yeah. 

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And I can remember things like 
that are saying there's some 

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friends of mine. 
The death of Klaus Barbie young.

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Rudolf Hess. 
Yeah. 

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They are making things manually 
as well. 

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Yes, although I sometimes wonder
if I'm conflating that with 

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watching Boys from Brazil, not 
sure this is part. 

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Issue is, is that it's part of 
our part of our cultural 

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Hinterland but was it a piece of
entertainment or a news 

185
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:06,900
headline, we don't know? 
Yeah. 

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00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:10,600
Yeah. 
I do remember very clearly that 

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even in the 80s that it's cool. 
The rumors that Hitler was still

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00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,100
alive. 
Yeah. 

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Living somewhere in Argentina. 
It's but the further we get away

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from the second world war that 
sort of just recedes, doesn't 

191
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,200
it? 
Well, yes. 

192
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,000
It's certainly less likely that 
he's still alive. 

193
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:40,500
Quite so before we just couple 
of other quick things before we 

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00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:43,200
start talking about, you know, 
the reason that I asked you to 

195
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,400
come on. 
I'm gonna say it. 

196
00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:49,500
Okay because I love, I love 
Vanity Fair. 

197
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,300
Okay. 
Obviously I appreciate that. 

198
00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:54,900
You were there. 
What are you? 

199
00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:55,900
The great great. 
Great. 

200
00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:58,100
Grandson of thackeray or wants 
three great. 

201
00:10:58,100 --> 00:10:59,900
Three grades. 
Yeah, great great. 

202
00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:04,700
Great yeah, okay and I want your
advice on something okay. 

203
00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:07,900
I've read Vanity Fair about 20 
odd years ago, and really 

204
00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:11,300
enjoyed it. 
And yeah, George Osborne's in it

205
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:15,500
and dogs and all sorts of its 
sprawling isn't lucky shot. 

206
00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:20,600
Fantastic. 
I've had pendennis downloaded on

207
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,700
my Kindle for about six years 
now. 

208
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:28,200
Should I read it? 
That's an excellent question. 

209
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,400
I am. 
I am, when I was a kid, we had a

210
00:11:32,408 --> 00:11:35,100
great talk. 
He was very much Keeper of the 

211
00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:39,600
Thackery Flay. 
Yeah, right and, and so, I did 

212
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,200
what any sensible childhood do? 
I didn't want to do it, right? 

213
00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:48,400
And I didn't read any Thackery 
for a very, very long time, just

214
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,700
was not interested. 
Yeah. 

215
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,800
It wasn't going to be sort of 
canalized into it because I 

216
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,000
didn't like Dickens. 
And you know what you told? 

217
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,400
Well it's sticking to the tackle
but I think the are there my 

218
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,600
dick heads. 
All right, so so you know what's

219
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,700
in it for me. 
And so I have not read very much

220
00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:07,500
that good kind of our sort of 
mulish rebellion, but also 

221
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,400
because I've been, you know, my 
mother is my mother is not the 

222
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,500
sort of, you know, unquestioning
unconditional keeper of a 

223
00:12:14,508 --> 00:12:17,800
thackeray flamer, I think She 
says, read the ones that are 

224
00:12:17,808 --> 00:12:21,700
good at the end and it's Vanity 
Fair that skill, you know, don't

225
00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:24,800
go and Dennis, if you don't want
to the Masterpiece is the 

226
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,300
Masterpiece and it truly is 
them. 

227
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,800
I mean, I think Vanity Fair, 
truly is amazing book. 

228
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,000
Yeah, absolutely. 
Incredible book. 

229
00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:35,400
Extraordinary novel. 
But he put, I mean, as far as I 

230
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,600
understand it, he put all his 
eggs in that basket there enough

231
00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:45,600
and that will never be read your
into prog-rock, as well. 

232
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,100
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

233
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,700
Is what's that? 
I mean is that just always been 

234
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:51,000
into that or did you do? 
Well. 

235
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,300
It's at school. 
Everyone was into Punk and it 

236
00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:57,800
seemed, you know, because they 
all wanted to be different to 

237
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,300
everyone else. 
But they are all into the same 

238
00:13:00,300 --> 00:13:02,300
thing. 
So Prague felt like a sort of 

239
00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:06,000
felt like it's a place I could 
carve out for myself because 

240
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:08,800
he's music was tribal, you know,
when we were kids. 

241
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, it's a passion. 

242
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,600
You share with fellow comedian. 
Jim Davidson of course it really

243
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,600
is it. 
Yeah. 

244
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,600
I did not know that but it go. 
He's all about the Prague. 

245
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,400
I had no idea. 
Anyway, I don't, of course and 

246
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,200
Steve Davis. 
Yes, Steve Davis on use a big 

247
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,900
problem. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Britain's 

248
00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:34,900
foremost magma fan. 
I think, yes, yes, yes. 

249
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:38,500
He's prog-rock DJ's. 
Well, yeah, yeah, that's right, 

250
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,300
yes, right? 
Yeah. 

251
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:44,600
He's a very interesting man, 
right? 

252
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,300
Who's better then? 
Who's the better band? 

253
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:50,900
Focus or greenslade? 
Focus, focus. 

254
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:56,100
Yes, yes. 
But greenslade is a link worthy 

255
00:13:56,100 --> 00:14:00,900
of pebble Mill because obviously
greenslade is, is a name 

256
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:05,400
familiar to goon show fans and 
sorry, I really worked on that, 

257
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:11,200
really? 
Yes, obviously this podcast is 

258
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,300
ostensibly about the gauge The 
Gunshot, what's the gun show. 

259
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:17,800
But also I wanted. 
Have a bit broader and we're not

260
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,600
brought it and just so that we 
could cover anything about 

261
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,000
anything that's got a goon 
connection. 

262
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,900
So anyway, sounds films 
Milligan. 

263
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:28,200
Yeah TV even Highway if 
goddamnit ever need to, you 

264
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,700
know, the future. 
Normally a true of the signal 

265
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,100
section sorted in here, a large 
set of protruding teeth. 

266
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:39,700
But for this feature, he would 
have been ugly seeing the 

267
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:42,000
luxury, we were living and he 
said you cut him bastards. 

268
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:44,500
You know where I slept last 
night, Sittin Up in the bleedin 

269
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,100
Cozy who tried to sue them with 
gifts of cold. 

270
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,700
Porridge true said, he thought 
we were going to Scotland. 

271
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:51,800
Why Scotland? 
Why I tell you? 

272
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:54,600
They're going to make lenders in
Norway is a sick of running 

273
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,000
mate. 
We linked up with the Russians. 

274
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,800
Oh, Christ scrimmaged him, no 
way, that's done. 

275
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,800
It'll why I told my family. 
It was Malta. 

276
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:05,600
What about my family? 
I told him Bournemouth before we

277
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,600
start to melt lagoons and I 
suppose in a way spikes War 

278
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,800
Memoirs, I would imagine a very 
dear to you that. 

279
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,800
Yes, right? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

280
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,900
And I remember those big my my 
father was a huge Spike fan, 

281
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,600
right? 
And all of this comes from my 

282
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,200
dad. 
I remember them being in my 

283
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:27,100
parents Lou, and when I was 
little, you know, you'd read the

284
00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,800
funny caption pictures, he read 
the sort of Hitler. 

285
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,600
Hitler Hitler and Goebbels, 
sketches or whatever, you know, 

286
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,000
and the cartoons, and all that. 
And and you'd think this guy is,

287
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
this guy is really fun, it's 
bananas. 

288
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,100
But it's been being transmitted 
to me from another planet. 

289
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,400
As you get older, you read the 
books, you may be read them. 

290
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,800
And you laugh at The Loft that 
because the band to sort of 

291
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,300
Relentless and really, really 
funny. 

292
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:54,900
And then actually as you get 
older, you realize what they're 

293
00:15:54,900 --> 00:16:00,200
about and, and they the whole 
thing needs to him having his 

294
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,500
Combat fatigue breaker Italy in 
the, in the, you know, start 

295
00:16:05,500 --> 00:16:11,700
1944 and that Spike gets, as far
as he does, without that happen 

296
00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:14,600
to him is because of the 
friendships, he has. 

297
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,100
Because the Army is looking 
after him because chater 

298
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,000
Jackson, wonderful officer and 
cares about his men because the 

299
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,400
regiment's being run really, 
really sort of extraordinary 

300
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,400
actually strangely 
compassionately. 

301
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,600
She's not a thing. 
I think people think of a, the 

302
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,600
Army's sort of being capable 
love and and then they're about 

303
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,200
how he tries to piece itself 
back together after his break 

304
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,700
there and his love affair with 
Italy and him grow up. 

305
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:44,300
You know him being fought sort 
of in a strange way having to 

306
00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:46,400
grow up because I think one of 
the interesting things about 

307
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,700
spike is that sense of childish 
wonder of the world & before he 

308
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:50,800
joins. 
The Army still. 

309
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,600
Very although he's quite old the
older than the others. 

310
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,900
If I remember rightly, he said 
sort of Manchild is the feeling 

311
00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:59,100
I get you know they're going. 
Child wandering wandering 

312
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:02,700
through the world. 
Not make not really like making 

313
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,700
sense of it living in that kind 
of dream world wants to be a 

314
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,099
Trumpeter sort of doing well at 
that. 

315
00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:09,200
But them so, you know, you 
wonder what would have happened 

316
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,800
to spike Milligan. 
Had the war not come. 

317
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,599
Yeah. 
Well, I wonder that about most 

318
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,200
of post-war British 
entertainment. 

319
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,500
Yes. 
But they would, they have 

320
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:21,099
carried on working it. 
Baldwin's Factory. 

321
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:23,800
Yeah, yeah. 
Well, whatever it may be, you 

322
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,099
know? 
Yeah, because because the thing 

323
00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:28,400
is, this thing is, is that the 
war is not a catalytic event, 

324
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,500
because it, because it comes at 
changes. 

325
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,000
Absolutely. 
Lutely everything you know and 

326
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,100
and changes itself as it 
progresses you know it's not 

327
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:39,700
it's not like Britain's 
catalyzed by the 1 million 

328
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:42,300
catalyzed by the we have 
radically changed by it and you 

329
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:44,500
do what all of those people 
Kenneth Williams. 

330
00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:46,800
You know what if we're what on 
Earth would have here if that? 

331
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,300
Yeah and and the fact that the 
fact that I mean I think it's 

332
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:52,500
again it is a really interesting
thing. 

333
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:57,100
The Army has got sort of the 
bending it to allow people like 

334
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:59,500
them to gravitate to concert 
parties in the end, you know, 

335
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,600
Milligan's Milligan. 
The care, they care. 

336
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,000
He gets put into Because they've
obviously written him off as a 

337
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:08,900
soldier. 
They know they can't use 

338
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:10,600
themselves, they getting things 
up, death work and stuff. 

339
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,000
Then they realized that she 
would be better off having pain 

340
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,700
places, and, and then he 
gravitates to the bill Hall Trio

341
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:21,200
and all that, you can see that 
actually in a strange way. 

342
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,400
Although, you know, he is a bit 
of in that really hates the 

343
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,900
army. 
They taken quite the taken 

344
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:31,100
fairly good. 
Care of him in the circumstances

345
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:33,800
because they're not, you know, 
the the there's a very, very 

346
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,600
good book. 
Ground off and bloody-minded by 

347
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,300
history of allinol. 
Port about the Army in the war 

348
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:43,700
and how he dealt with, you know,
people who didn't want to be 

349
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:48,100
soldiers because to the sort of 
social experiment, the second 

350
00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:51,700
world war is that the Army is 
filled up with people who aren't

351
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:54,500
soldiers, they don't want to be 
soldiers civilians and civilian 

352
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,300
soldiers, who need looking after
and also have vote, you know, 

353
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,300
unless it's tough. 
So then It's a different is a 

354
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:02,100
new relationship. 
The Army has to have. 

355
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,300
And actually, if you have a, if 
you have a battlefield 

356
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,100
breakdown, if you have combat 
fatigue, and of course, the 

357
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:09,600
names you've changing for that. 
We call it PG. 

358
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,700
We'd call it PTSD, but they 
wouldn't so you can't call it 

359
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:15,400
that and it wasn't 
shell-shocked. 

360
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:16,900
Any Market moved on from that 
idea. 

361
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:20,000
But basically that what the Army
really want to do is if you had 

362
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000
a breakdown, they wanted you to 
get you back at the front line, 

363
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,200
because your job to fight, but 
they also understood some 

364
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,400
people, they couldn't. 
And that's what's really 

365
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,600
interesting. 
Despite because the guy 

366
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,300
actually, you know what? 
You're not, we can't, we can't 

367
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:37,800
make you do this, and we won't, 
and, and it's just fascinating 

368
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,000
and that that time in Italy, 
afterwards, where, where he's 

369
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,700
sort of living in a living, the 
kind of stately home, and he's 

370
00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:49,200
pissing himself together and 
runs into the cecum is just such

371
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,500
an interesting time and you 
really do get the feeling that 

372
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,500
that although, you know, he's 
gone through this appalling 

373
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,000
thing. 
It is the thing that turns him 

374
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,800
into the But the genius, The 
Towering comedy genius. 

375
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000
You know, the man who actually, 
I think creates the entire post 

376
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,800
or comedy scene that we're still
in the wake of, you know, I 

377
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,000
think he's as powerful to 
British comedy, as beetles, are 

378
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,500
to pop music. 
Yeah. 

379
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:19,000
And World comedy is a result 
because nothing that the pythons

380
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,200
could do. 
Could possibly have existed 

381
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,300
without Milligan. 
Havin having, popped the whole 

382
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:25,800
thing wide open. 
Yeah. 

383
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:29,000
Oh yeah, just impossible. 
I mean, Peter Cook. 

384
00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,100
Yeah, Peter got down. 
If you know the speed of cook 

385
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,100
when he was possibly, he was 
still at Radley. 

386
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,600
So we're talking maybe mid 50s, 
something like that. 

387
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,800
Yeah, he wrote a It wasn't a 
goon show script but it was 

388
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,600
obviously inspired by the Goon. 
Yeah. 

389
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:45,200
Yeah. 
And he's just submit it. 

390
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,700
I think he just submitted it to 
the BBC somehow Ella and and 

391
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,400
somehow or other it landed on 
Milligan's desk, try. 

392
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,700
And this would have been what 
5556 something like that, maybe 

393
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:02,000
and Milligan, it went so far as 
to write to cook and they met up

394
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,900
and had dinner together. 
And there's no record. 

395
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:08,600
I think they both drank a lot of
wine. 

396
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:10,500
There's no record of what was 
actually said. 

397
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,900
Yeah. 
At this meal because he, you 

398
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:17,200
know, cook would have been a 
teenager, and, but it was only a

399
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,200
couple of years after that, of 
course that we that we get 

400
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:21,700
Beyond The Fringe. 
And you just wonder what sort of

401
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:24,900
words of wisdom Milligan may 
have in Imparted to cook. 

402
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:26,300
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

403
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:28,200
Or inspiration. 
You know? 

404
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,800
Yeah. 
How helpful he was on. 

405
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:32,500
You know, I mean that's that's 
fact. 

406
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,800
That is fascinating because I 
mean, my most of the bone and 

407
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,500
contention with the whole thing 
is that is that And is that the 

408
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,400
gun show get always gets left 
out story of British satire and 

409
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,200
you get this idea that there's 
the satire, Boom the 60s. 

410
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,200
And that's when we started 
disrespecting governments in 

411
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,500
this country, in a way that in a
way that, you know, 

412
00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:55,500
revolutionized everything. 
Well, you think. 

413
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,800
Well, first of all, read some 
book at some Regency cartoons, 

414
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:01,600
read some. 
Yeah, read some pamphlets, read 

415
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,700
some pamphlets from 200 years 
ago, please for you before you 

416
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,200
make that kind of assertion. 
But I think the truth about the 

417
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,000
stuff that will be thing about 
Satellite boot. 

418
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:14,400
Is that the people doing it, the
people who in, you know, ought 

419
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,600
to be working in the foreign 
office that's think about V to 

420
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,400
cook. 
So, that's where the shot comes 

421
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,400
from is that the, you know, the 
people flicking these at the 

422
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,800
establishment of people who 
should have been in the 

423
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,100
establishment, walk or even part
of it, whereas, because 

424
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:32,600
Milligan's, you know, I mean, he
again, he occupies his peculiar 

425
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,200
place because he's that, you 
know, there were rather 

426
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,300
attorneys as father was an 
officer, but he wasn't a 

427
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:39,500
high-ranking. 
Officer. 

428
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,400
So they're so that they're sort 
of this peculiar Indian Irish 

429
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,200
immigrants to England. 
They offer occupy very Play 

430
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,000
Straight million Americans offer
this very peculiar place in you 

431
00:22:52,008 --> 00:22:54,900
know, entirely Imperial British 
culture from out. 

432
00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:57,100
So he's sort of he's from 
outside, as well. 

433
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,300
Yeah. 
In a way that in a way that I 

434
00:22:59,308 --> 00:23:01,900
think it really informs his 
view, you know, everything's 

435
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:03,200
everything needs explaining to 
him. 

436
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,400
Everything's not quite right. 
Everything's not easy. 

437
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,000
Dilek childhood in India. 
Everything is this sort of Gray?

438
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,700
Drop world and I think the gun 
show is such a good show. 

439
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:17,100
So Raleigh satirical. 
I think that's why people have 

440
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:19,500
spotted eating it. 
So, obviously, satirical, you 

441
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:21,500
know, you know. 
Yeah, well anyway, he was 

442
00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:24,800
dropped into ink when he was 
dropped into England unprepared.

443
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:26,800
He was kind of cosseted, I 
suppose. 

444
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,000
Yeah. 
In India and then dropped into 

445
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,400
this world and was, and had an 
outsider's view of it all. 

446
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,300
Yeah, really? 
Yeah. 

447
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:38,300
Yes. 
Absolutely. 

448
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:45,900
And an outsider's view that sort
of That means he doesn't the 

449
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:48,300
sort of older things, he's not, 
he's not going to take at face 

450
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,600
value if he's going to win. 
I think, what was so striking 

451
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,300
about listening to the gun show 
is, is how it's all about a 

452
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:57,900
large amount of it's about 
class. 

453
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:03,100
And although he'd never say that
heat that, you know, Milligan, 

454
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:05,300
is it doing in a sort of 
self-consciously activists 

455
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:07,500
style, or he's not, you know, 
you're not, he's not, he ain't 

456
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:11,000
no marks as well, you know. 
He's basically, he's basically 

457
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,900
Doing it because that's what 
he's encountering. 

458
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,700
All that all the balls are Posh 
conman and incompetent majors 

459
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:25,600
and you know I mean blood not 
grip quite thin. 

460
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,100
All those people are like, sort 
of Posh grifters, that Milligan 

461
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:32,400
is run into who are of no 
discernible Talent. 

462
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,700
Authority thinkers are all are 
all bust and everything, and I 

463
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:38,200
think that's, that's really 
interesting. 

464
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,600
And that's especially as we we 
like to tell us how Second one 

465
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,400
was when we all pulled together 
know and what he said, what 

466
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,100
Milligan's saying, you know, we 
incompetence and grifters led 

467
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,000
the way. 
Yeah. 

468
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000
I think that that's that's it. 
That's that's a radical thing 

469
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,800
for someone to be saying, but 
that's right. 

470
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,100
I always, I always equate. 
I always think of characters 

471
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:01,400
like Dennis Price used to 
portray in. 

472
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,700
Yeah, British movies in the in 
the 50s. 

473
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,800
Yes. 
The, the public school were 

474
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,200
Public School educated but will 
touch you for a fiver and you 

475
00:25:10,208 --> 00:25:12,000
never see that again, you know? 
Yeah. 

476
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:17,200
Yeah, exactly. 
Well that's that's you know, a 

477
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,700
huge part of the Goon show 
people, knowing their place is a

478
00:25:20,708 --> 00:25:24,800
goon show thing to, you know, 
like people like Echols, you 

479
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,900
know, bluebottle get gleefully 
going to their deaths, 

480
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,000
essentially. 
Yeah. 

481
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,100
Because I've been told to yeah, 
absolutely said no problem. 

482
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:33,500
I think that's really 
interesting to. 

483
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:36,700
I'm a bone specialist. 
What do you want, bones? 

484
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000
I haven't got any but nonsense 
nonsense. 

485
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,400
Fall down without them would 
fall down without them. 

486
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,400
Could fall down without them 
you'd fall down. 

487
00:25:51,500 --> 00:26:01,200
Take it dries. 
I know I know for a fact that 

488
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,600
you have a large number of them,
tucked away, somewhere. 

489
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:07,800
Have you been crying into my 
family album x-rays but I often 

490
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,100
tell him what you found. 
Alright. 

491
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:14,900
A pretty spot on my window which
is he gonna party like nowhere 

492
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:17,100
fast tonight. 
So I'm Merry Christmas to you 

493
00:26:17,108 --> 00:26:21,200
all and let me tell you, which 
is he gone? 

494
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,500
You have a very compromising 
x-ray, photograph of two sets of

495
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:28,000
Bones, yours and Lady's. 
It's a lie. 

496
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:33,300
We're just friends. 
How much do you want for the 

497
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:35,400
next 310? 
Pounds Nettie to be paid in 

498
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,700
money. 
Before chapter 10. 

499
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,200
Yes. 
Yeah, when I had a speaking to 

500
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:45,100
Christopher Douglas who said Ed 
Reardon from a drayton's week, 

501
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,600
all right. 
Okay yeah. 

502
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,900
Yeah. 
And he when he's no huge fan of 

503
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:55,100
the goons particularly but he's 
fascinated by post-war British 

504
00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:56,800
radio comedy in general. 
Yeah. 

505
00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:00,200
Yeah. 
What he said was which was 

506
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,500
really It just it just cuts 
through everything. 

507
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:08,200
It is such a simple statement. 
It just got to the nub. 

508
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:14,400
He said, the 1950s was the only 
decade of post-war British 

509
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,800
comedy. 
That didn't really have any 

510
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,300
officer class comedy. 
Yeah. 

511
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,400
Yeah. 
I suppose you had mirror Norden 

512
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:25,800
but, you know, they were right. 
As went? 

513
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,300
They more than yes. 
Yes. 

514
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,700
Yeah. that's very, that's a very
that's a very interesting point 

515
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,300
that I mean that and you, you 
know, because the BBC 

516
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:41,100
periodically for the discovers, 
you know, Matthew Sweet saying 

517
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,400
that the likely Lads was the BBC
discovering the north, you know,

518
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:46,900
obviously that they've been a 
you know, because of Coronation 

519
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:50,700
Street that sort of memo. 
You know, go north and rights in

520
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:54,400
find something to write about 
yes and you get the feeling 

521
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,600
that, you know, because the 
because I mean the other thing 

522
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,400
to the other thing to remember, 
also still in the 50s, the BBC's

523
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,900
essentially, what. 
Not even 20 years old by 1950. 

524
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000
It's brand new. 
It's had to react to it. 

525
00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:09,400
You know, the gigantic events, 
the war. 

526
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:15,600
It's trying to his trying to not
upset the apple cart. 

527
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,000
I think that's the really 
interesting thing about the 

528
00:28:17,008 --> 00:28:20,600
BBC's actually, how really in 
the word State broadcaster and 

529
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,500
you can't describe it as 
anything else. 

530
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,700
And so in the 50s, it's sort of 
trying to find its role and the 

531
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:31,900
gun show is a big hit and yet 
the BBC's terribly worried about

532
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:33,600
it because they might say 
something rude. 

533
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:38,200
At the state broadcaster and how
do they reconcile the Anarchy of

534
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,200
the shit cause, you know how 
rude a good show goon shows are 

535
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,700
once you know what the code is? 
Yes. 

536
00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:48,300
It's quite striking building and
then, you know, they're doing it

537
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:51,900
in plain sight and clearly 
milliken's having fun playing 

538
00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:58,700
games with that aspect of it 
anyway, I mean, the be busy, all

539
00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:03,800
these things are brand new reel,
it in the 50s. 

540
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,200
Yes. 
All of them. 

541
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,700
Well, that's right. 
I mean, I think there was 

542
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:12,700
something like, something, like,
30 BBC officials gunning for the

543
00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:14,700
Goon show during its run. 
Yeah. 

544
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,500
Yeah. 
You know, yeah. 

545
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,500
And, and that was because that 
was off the back of. 

546
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:23,600
And the problem is, you said 
it's such a satirical show and 

547
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,900
it was. 
But but that got that got muted 

548
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,100
when they would, they would edit
the shows for ya if overseas 

549
00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:38,400
radio Instead cut out or topical
references and anything slightly

550
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,900
sore? 
See ya. 

551
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:44,900
And those then those versions 
often tended to be the versions 

552
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:49,800
that would go out on the lp 
releases and the cigars and 70s.

553
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,100
So, people growing up, they 
would hear lots of gags, and 

554
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,300
lots of explosions, and all that
sort of thing. 

555
00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:58,700
But they wouldn't hear Churchill
Impressions, or they wouldn't 

556
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:02,800
hear flip references to 
receiving obes, or knighthoods, 

557
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,800
or yeah. 
The things like that and even in

558
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:12,000
1954 they were including 
recordings of Nazi rallies in 

559
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,800
goon show, you know, the, you 
know, the seek I'll seek. 

560
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,300
I'll kind of thing. 
Yeah. 

561
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,100
And that's less than ten years 
after the end of the war, and 

562
00:30:19,108 --> 00:30:22,300
it's just so radical. 
Yeah, yeah. 

563
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:26,200
Well, but also, what's 
interesting about that is those 

564
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,800
historical historical View and 
of Nazi Germany and its position

565
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,100
in British culture. 
Haven't become fixed yet, and 

566
00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:38,400
so, of course, they'd use that, 
of course, they have that in the

567
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,600
show if the shows going to be 
relevant to what what's going on

568
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,700
in people's lives, rather than, 
you know, that that, I mean it 

569
00:30:45,700 --> 00:30:48,800
is very, very interesting, but 
that because because I've heard,

570
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,500
I've heard sort of mutant 
versions because those are the 

571
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:56,500
only versions that our offer. 
And and I mean I love the as a 

572
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,000
kid. 
I loved the funny voices. 

573
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:02,700
I love as an adult. 
I love the sort of Absolute. 

574
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:05,700
That's dream Consciousness kind 
of free association of a lot of 

575
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:11,900
it. 
Milligan is obviously also using

576
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:15,100
the constraints to being put on 
it as a way of inspiring self 

577
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:18,000
and finding his way of 
maneuvering around. 

578
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,900
So, so the pressure is under 
creatively is generating 

579
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:26,300
Creative Energy to helping. 
You know, the I'm sure he'd have

580
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:31,000
never agreed with that, but it's
sort of giving him something to 

581
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,800
kick against she sort of good. 
I mean, that's obviously not 

582
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,000
what the BBC we're doing. 
It's been through something of 

583
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,300
them. 
At least it's happening. 

584
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:43,000
But I know, I mean, I, yeah, it 
stands to reason that the show's

585
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,900
would obviously have 
contemporary grit in them 

586
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,400
because otherwise, what, 
otherwise, they are just silly 

587
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,800
voices shows and you're like, 
well, what is going on? 

588
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,100
Why are they so why do people 
love them? 

589
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:59,600
So there's now pretty much most 
series 5 shows on words because 

590
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,100
because pre-series five, most of
the show's didn't get kept. 

591
00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:06,800
Yeah. 
Um, but sort of, from D 4 

592
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,600
onwards, the every show is 
available pretty much and now 

593
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,700
with the bits that were edited 
out put back in the other I'm 

594
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:19,600
listening to these again because
I grew up, you know as a 

595
00:32:19,608 --> 00:32:22,800
teenager I discovered them in 
the 80s and listen to them 

596
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:26,100
voraciously and then sort of 
drifted away for about 30 years 

597
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:28,000
and I've come back to them and 
I'm revisiting them. 

598
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,300
Yeah and it's amazing. 
The last 12 months have been 

599
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,700
doing this just re listening to 
shows that are that are As they 

600
00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:41,200
went out in the 50s with the 
references to, you know, so much

601
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,400
Churchill. 
I mean, just just last week, I 

602
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,600
recorded an episode about the 
Goon Show episode Wings over 

603
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,900
dagenham. 
And and that's a set that's 

604
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:55,200
basically about a the invention 
of the airplane and the airplane

605
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,300
is invented in a workshop. 
Based on Lyle Street. 

606
00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:02,800
Yeah and I grew up listening to 
the edited version and Lyle 

607
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,300
Street you know was just you 
know it's just a name. 

608
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:10,000
Young. 
But then I realized into it 

609
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,400
restored and there was a bit put
back in where Ned says he 

610
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,500
couldn't get, he couldn't get 
the plane off the ground, in 

611
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:19,200
Lowell Street and grip bad 
things as well. 

612
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,100
If you can't get off and well 
Street, you'll never get off 

613
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:25,300
anywhere, right? 
And then, I found out while 

614
00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:31,900
Street was a notorious red-light
District in SoHo and right, but 

615
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:34,500
obviously, it was it was yanked 
out for overseas sales and all 

616
00:33:34,508 --> 00:33:38,200
the rest of it, but just things 
Like that and and references two

617
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,300
strikes as well industrial 
action. 

618
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,400
Yeah so much of it. 
Yeah. 

619
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,900
Yeah well because because of 
course of course of course that 

620
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:52,300
would all be in there. 
I mean I is it. 

621
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,200
I mean the thing I the thing I 
also find sort of fascinating 

622
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:06,200
about it is I don't know how how
sort of Milligan kept him. 

623
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,300
Of, you know, one of the great 
stories of these, all his 

624
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,000
biographies, talk about he was 
really suffering with mental 

625
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,699
health time and how he kept it 
together and all that sort of 

626
00:34:15,707 --> 00:34:18,699
thing. 
And that to me is, is sort of 

627
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:21,500
extraordinary mystery because, 
because they were on their on, 

628
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:24,699
basically half the year when 
they get on half a year off, 

629
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:28,300
half a year. 
I mean delivering a show that 

630
00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:32,100
that was a hugely successful 
that made them all that made 

631
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:35,500
them all famous. 
Although radio Fame. 

632
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:39,400
So there's this Leah thing that 
then afterwards, you know, that,

633
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,699
you know, the threads and things
like that, never quite it. 

634
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:44,699
Never quite, they never quite 
find the solution to have to do 

635
00:34:44,699 --> 00:34:48,199
on TV, and then, and then by the
time, they may be, could have 

636
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:52,199
figured that sells, he's long 
gone, that Milligan kept it 

637
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:54,600
together and deliver the show. 
And I know he had help but no 

638
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,000
other people chip in and I know 
other people take over the 

639
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000
writing. 
In fact, at times, he's quite 

640
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,500
extraordinary that he did this 
and that he just the pressure 

641
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:06,100
alone of that might drive you 
crazy. 

642
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:12,800
You know, it's a heroic story of
a comedy writer, delivering 

643
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,300
something truly amazing entirely
within his vision. 

644
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,500
You know, stopping the 
intervention of those who would 

645
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:22,500
seek to change in recognize that
something. 

646
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,100
It's the measly such a hero 
Milligan. 

647
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,800
So I don't know. 
I know he's copybook think is 

648
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,100
appallingly blotted by some of 
his fate that later? 

649
00:35:36,900 --> 00:35:41,800
Didn't figure, you know, that 
someone could deliver like that.

650
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,900
For why did I best part of a 
decade? 

651
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,000
Is incredible. 
That's the thing. 

652
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,600
And I think I think he resented 
Michael banty. 

653
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,500
Well. 
I know he did. 

654
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,800
Yeah, we might have been team. 
Is there at the beginning and 

655
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,300
then he moved on because there 
just wasn't room. 

656
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,200
Yeah, it was, there was two big 
personalities that were just 

657
00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:01,800
locking. 
Locking horns all the time. 

658
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,300
Yeah, yeah. 
And I think he was that he 

659
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,700
throughout the 50s, he presented
the BBC and some cases rightly 

660
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:14,100
so and yeah, he was paid less 
than the other two for a start. 

661
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,200
I would, she's amazing. 
Yeah, I don't think he resented 

662
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,600
them for that, and why should he
really is? 

663
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,500
Yes. 
Yeah, I think he was in, or of 

664
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:25,800
Peter Sellers. 
He was absolutely. 

665
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,100
He was cell as big as fan in a 
way. 

666
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Just the items of what sellers 
could do. 

667
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,800
Yeah. 
But he I think he kind of 

668
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,900
there's possibly a little bit of
Resentment in the sense that, 

669
00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:42,000
you know, they could be on tour,
they could be doing variety or 

670
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,300
during the week and appearing on
TV and whatnot while he had to 

671
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:48,300
write and then they just pitch 
the at the Camden theater on a 

672
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:51,300
Sunday. 
Yeah, and performed and I think,

673
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:53,800
you know, he found that hard 
going and all through. 

674
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,800
If you look at old newspaper, 
archives all through the 50s, 

675
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:01,400
every year, there's some article
about Peter Sellers saying, 

676
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:04,700
shall I leave the gun show 
readers and become a film star 

677
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,500
kind of that, you know, So 
obviously Summers was always 

678
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,900
going to make it on film and he 
did, and I think, yeah, Milligan

679
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,700
felt he almost was in With a 
Chance of emulating that, in a 

680
00:37:18,707 --> 00:37:23,600
way because he got, he got a 
contract to make films for MGM, 

681
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,300
a number of films for MGM, the 
late 50s early 60s. 

682
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,600
Yeah. 
And they all but this they orbit

683
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,400
sort of disappeared without 
trace and I think then he 

684
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:34,800
realized he kind of 
acknowledged. 

685
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,500
Okay. 
That's I'm not going to B, I'm 

686
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:38,800
not going to it's never gonna 
happen. 

687
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So so then he did what he does 

688
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,300
best he did plays. 
He did books, he did TV like you

689
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:50,200
say I'm up some of it but 
ill-advised but still I mean 

690
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,900
when you and I were in contact 
previously, you Dugout the Goon 

691
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:57,200
show scripts. 
Yes well this is this is this is

692
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,900
my contact with the goons the 
gun show script. 

693
00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:05,000
So again like my parents It's 
just, I had, you know, the medic

694
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,000
and Milliken books in a in the, 
in the loo. 

695
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,000
Yeah. 
Also had a goon show script. 

696
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,600
The one that was published in 
like, 1972, which has got batter

697
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,100
her putting hurler, I can't 
remember, I can't remember else 

698
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:23,700
is in it. 
And I'm so my first actual 

699
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:30,600
proper encounter with the goons 
is, is reading them and not 

700
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,500
knowing what the voice is. were 
not knowing what any of it kind 

701
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:41,100
of was, and Having to sort of 
imagine it all the not say to my

702
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:41,600
dad. 
You know. 

703
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,200
What does that concerned like 
and he do his Equus. 

704
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,200
Yeah and what's grip like thin 
who's he, what's that? 

705
00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:53,500
And I'd sort of create this kind
of Sonic picture for myself 

706
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:58,000
having never heard it. 
The 30 days, we drifted to and 

707
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:07,600
fro, then hunger came up on us. 
If I don't eat soon, I will die 

708
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,300
of hunger and if I die, I won't 
eat you soon. 

709
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,800
Thank you very much. 
Can I smell cooking or do my 

710
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,000
ears? 
Deceive me? 

711
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:23,900
He was right. 
Something was cooking the, in 

712
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:27,700
the other end of the Lifeboat 
was a gas stove. 

713
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,400
Could this be the end of our 
search not coming up and down? 

714
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:54,500
Good morning. 
Yo, yes. 

715
00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:57,500
Remember Bexhill I lent you the 
matches. 

716
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:01,200
You don't want to make a move. 
I arrest. 

717
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,800
You was a dreaded batter, 
putting her luxury blur and then

718
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,400
your devil don't move. 
This finger is loaded. 

719
00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:10,300
If you kill me, I promise you 
you'll never take me alive. 

720
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:14,300
How can we prove? 
He's the challah that better 

721
00:40:14,300 --> 00:40:16,500
putting in the corner of the 
sternum is all the evidence we 

722
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:26,300
need we got him. 
I've barely sure I am taped me 

723
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:30,500
doing the doing the voices? 
I'll be some cassette somewhere 

724
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:32,300
me going meanie. 
Yeah. 

725
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,000
Well that's a bit but it was it 
would have been First scripts, I

726
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,900
ever get it. 
If any of any, you know, beyond 

727
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:40,600
beyond. 
Do you know, doing looking at 

728
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,200
Shakespearean, English at 
school? 

729
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:48,300
The first script, I read. 
So what's g w FX? 

730
00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:50,000
Yes. 
What, what's going on here? 

731
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:56,100
What's happening and it really, 
really shaped my View. 

732
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,600
Kind of like what's possible, 
you know what? 

733
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,100
What's possible on radio? 
Remember, the being really into 

734
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:05,000
Radioactive on Radio 4 because 
they seem to have, they seem to 

735
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,300
have got their heads. 
The idea that you need to, you 

736
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,300
know, it's not a set comments, 
it's got to be, it's got to 

737
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:14,000
occupy a different space, just 
sort of straight sketch there. 

738
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:18,500
Yeah. 
And and I remember, they're not 

739
00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:23,000
remember when I got Unis Victor 
or after University Vic and Bob 

740
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,800
were a big thing. 
And I remember something, I mean

741
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,700
I love Fickett Bob but I 
remember saying come on this is 

742
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:31,800
the GU this is the this is 
completely in line with what 

743
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,600
Milligan was doing in the 50s 
and then and then what he was 

744
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,300
doing on the TV and accuses, 
it's completely in this 

745
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:40,700
genealogy. 
Surely. 

746
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,400
Yeah. 
And all my, all my clever makes 

747
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:44,800
go knows. 
True. 

748
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,000
Revolution has nothing on you 
and you're doing shows nothing 

749
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,500
on that. 
You can share with your silly 

750
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:52,100
voices and I'm thinking no this 
is the this is the judge that 

751
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:54,000
they used to do on victim Big 
Night. 

752
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,000
Out judge does not make. 
Yeah, yeah. 

753
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,800
Miz. 
What if? 

754
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:02,600
That we're in the Goon show, you
won't be surprised you right out

755
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,500
of it. 
And that's not that which is 

756
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:08,000
again, isn't isn't to say, I 
don't, you know, I love looking 

757
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,500
for, I think they're amazing and
interestingly, they're also, 

758
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:14,100
they're not officer class. 
Are they that that's the other 

759
00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:18,500
thing is that they're that 
they're coming at it from from 

760
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,600
that different, that different 
perspective. 

761
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,500
And the satire they do TV 
send-ups. 

762
00:42:23,500 --> 00:42:24,600
They do. 
I mean the TV set up. 

763
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,800
So, do we used to do smell a 
reason Mortimer. 

764
00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:29,700
Again really remind me of queue.
You lots of ways? 

765
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:33,500
Yeah. 
Third absurd, makeup. 

766
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:37,000
And kind of strange costumes 
with big feet and stuff and it's

767
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,000
all sort of quite Spike. 
I think I smell of Reason more 

768
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,000
time. 
I think of Steve Coogan before 

769
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,200
he was famous. 
Yeah, that with a prosthetic 

770
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,400
ridiculous chin. 
And I was always a big forehead.

771
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:50,500
I'm not quite sure. 
I haven't been. 

772
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:52,800
Yeah. 
Crying and he's and apparently 

773
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,300
he's the lead singer of go west.
And he's he's lost his Top Cat 

774
00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:00,200
video. 
That's And it's and it's and 

775
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,800
it's not a, it's not a 
criticism, it's a like this is 

776
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,100
the this is the stuff I really 
love that people, people 

777
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:10,900
completely prepared to be silly,
donkey kick, what? 

778
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:20,900
Let's try it. 
What Chung cakes video annoying?

779
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,500
If you lost your top cap video, 
I know you fail. 

780
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,600
I lost a very dear relatively 
recently. 

781
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:42,500
You told me it was a very day, a
wristwatch West watch. 

782
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:43,200
Yeah. 
What's wrong? 

783
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,900
And I was but my uncle's wear it
when I shot him anywhere. 

784
00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:49,700
That's not half as bad as this 
fellas loss. 

785
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,200
Love it. 
So I had these scripts and I the

786
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,900
thing is is then, of course, 
what you do is you finally get 

787
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:03,000
because it you'd have to buy 
tapes, used to be quite the 

788
00:44:03,008 --> 00:44:04,800
popular get older good show. 
Finally. 

789
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,600
You get a hold of the thing. 
You listen to it with the script

790
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:11,900
anything right? 
I hope shake the picture in my 

791
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:13,700
head wasn't exactly. 
Yeah. 

792
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:15,100
Yeah, exactly. 
Right. 

793
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,000
But sort of how vividly they're 
written in terms of what Spike 

794
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,800
trying to get out of what the 
what they can do on the radio is

795
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,200
very, very interesting and how 
well he knew what they could do 

796
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,600
with, you know, G + FX and how 
well, he knew what he could do 

797
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,300
and what sellers could do and 
what seek and was capable of and

798
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:38,000
then everyone else free zone or 
the other cast of characters, 

799
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:42,800
it's there at their, they're 
amazingly well, written that God

800
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,300
is absolutely in control of his 
materials. 

801
00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:50,200
Certainly by that point because 
batter putting hers when they're

802
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,300
well established isn't it? 
So yeah, but that script is 

803
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:56,200
like, it's all there. 
It's completely like ideal 

804
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,800
indicted in its execution and in
in what's on the page? 

805
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:06,100
Yeah, that was that was gonna 
sound completely nerdy here. 

806
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:08,900
But that was about, that was 
something like the 103rd gun 

807
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:14,400
show that they are recorded 
okay, and I didn't know that but

808
00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:16,200
I won't go. 
Why I know that. 

809
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:23,200
But but if you look at the sort 
of 90-odd gun shows the for that

810
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,400
show. 
Yeah, they weren't fully 

811
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,200
realized, they weren't they were
still, a lot of them still 

812
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,400
pretty raw. 
A lot of them. 

813
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:32,500
The only ones with sketch-based,
you know, they weren't there 

814
00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:35,800
wasn't a running narrative, some
of the characters were 

815
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,200
ill-defined or hadn't been 
developed properly. 

816
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:43,000
Yeah, and it's really from 
Series 5 that in, which better 

817
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,400
pudding is about, you know, part
of that. it's almost like 

818
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,500
they've gone away at the end of 
series 4 and I don't know up to 

819
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:54,700
use a terrible phrase 
workshopped for the whole summer

820
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:59,700
or something and come back, come
back, totally transformed but 

821
00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:02,700
it's fascinating is that because
because they give him for so 

822
00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:07,100
they can for series to figure it
out which is like the most 

823
00:46:07,100 --> 00:46:13,100
amazing and in high profile and 
with people listening and I'm 

824
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:17,400
fascinated that then they're 
able to Do that and think yeah, 

825
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,200
people are listening to this. 
We have four Series in but we 

826
00:46:19,207 --> 00:46:21,400
haven't got it right yet. 
So we still need to fix it. 

827
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:27,800
I mean, that's incredible. 
Yeah, so we're much of a python 

828
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,900
fan. 
Well, yeah, but but I, I think 

829
00:46:32,900 --> 00:46:41,800
I, my problem is I came at 
python I came at python by the 

830
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,700
film's, right? 
Yeah. 

831
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,900
I came up quite and violife 
Brian. 

832
00:46:47,300 --> 00:46:52,100
Right? 
And so you know it immediately 

833
00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:55,800
we are we are going to show 
again but but but what I love 

834
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,200
about why I think I because I 
think that's their best film by 

835
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,500
really long way. 
Hmm. 

836
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:05,100
And and the reason I and I do 
like holy grail, I don't much 

837
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:12,300
like lima life the reason I mean
very strange sort of that third 

838
00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:15,200
film but but but what what I 
think is brilliant about it. 

839
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:20,500
And it's sort of like, you know,
Harry Hill didn't even but stay 

840
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:23,200
with me with this analogy will 
work is that when you've got 

841
00:47:23,500 --> 00:47:26,300
that python were obviously a 
brilliant crew. 

842
00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:30,000
But what they, I think they 
always needed was a subject and 

843
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,500
Life of Brian because they're 
having they got to chain 

844
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:36,500
themselves to this story and 
make their point. 

845
00:47:37,300 --> 00:47:42,600
All of the sort of python. 
Kind of not seeing us some sort 

846
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,600
of throwing sketches away and 
all that has to serve a higher 

847
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,300
purpose rather than kind of 
where we're breaking boundaries 

848
00:47:49,300 --> 00:47:51,700
here on, isn't it interesting 
that we're disrupting the sketch

849
00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:56,100
shows or hmm? 
And that's that that I think 

850
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,600
strangely enough serves them 
best and and then and then, you 

851
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,500
know, something Now for 
Something Completely Different 

852
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:05,100
is the best organ. 
It really is a best of, I think.

853
00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:07,500
Yeah. 
And so, when you go back and 

854
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:09,900
sort of grind your way through 
the series, you realize that 

855
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:13,000
that film Is a very much a best 
of and that obviously sketch 

856
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,600
shows a hit Miss, and they were 
very fortunate to be allowed 

857
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,900
freedom to hit and miss. 
But it's off again, it's officer

858
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:24,900
class and I'm not, you know, I'm
an officer class person. 

859
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:27,100
You know. 
Maybe make no mistake. 

860
00:48:27,100 --> 00:48:27,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

861
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,100
Always always feels like and, 
you know, obviously pythons 

862
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:34,400
massively influential incredibly
important. 

863
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,700
But again, when Chloe's does 
Fawlty Towers, I kind of feel 

864
00:48:36,700 --> 00:48:39,700
finally. 
Finally, they put this sort of 

865
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,800
Finely tuned stallion to use, 
they're running in a race rather

866
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,400
than adding bad him do a 
headstand, you know what I mean?

867
00:48:48,900 --> 00:48:51,900
And he said he's clearly said 
that himself about Fawlty Towers

868
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:55,600
is I was I was pleased finally, 
to actually just do comedy that 

869
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,200
had to have a beginning, a 
middle and an end and had to 

870
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,700
have jokes rather than this 
destroy jokes or throw jokes 

871
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:03,600
away. 
But I was sort of set free by 

872
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,700
having to do format. 
Yeah. 

873
00:49:05,900 --> 00:49:08,400
And I think that's what's 
brilliant about life Brian. 

874
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,600
Is there set free by Talk. 
Prego. 

875
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,100
I found what I was trying to say
it is se but Harry, Hill's 

876
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:20,500
worldview, if you have it, talk 
about television is more is most

877
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:24,300
of it works better rather than 
to the vacuum of just his 

878
00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:26,100
worldview, just his way of 
looking at things. 

879
00:49:26,100 --> 00:49:29,600
I think, I think that's the case
with python with life. 

880
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:30,800
Brian. 
And why meaning, your life 

881
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,900
doesn't work because they've, 
they haven't actually 

882
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,000
disciplined themselves into 
Channel themselves into a thing.

883
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:38,500
Whose wife is why? 
Actually Holy Grail Works. 

884
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:42,100
Be is pretty good, but it 
doesn't just You know Arthurian 

885
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:45,800
Legends you taking the piss out 
something that well whatever but

886
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,900
when you doing Messianic 
religion you're absolutely your 

887
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:53,300
landing and blow quite 
spectacularly that their 

888
00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:56,400
Appliance of that there is you 
know their style to that subject

889
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,900
lands the clothes, really 
brilliant and I sort of them. 

890
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:03,600
Yeah, but they are so that it 
strikes me they were so in the 

891
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,200
Goon show get and they were 
showing so the death of Q. 

892
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,600
I mean Palin says so. 
So I, you know, it's not, it's 

893
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,500
not an acknowledged, but it's 
the fact that after Philip, it 

894
00:50:14,508 --> 00:50:16,700
doesn't matter what applies to 
know that other people want to 

895
00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:20,200
know is that, you know, if you 
want more of that, go look, go 

896
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,600
look at what Milligan's do, if 
that's what you want, sketches 

897
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,500
that fracture, or things that 
fall apart or things that 

898
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:27,800
comment on themselves and all 
that stuff and things that 

899
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,400
comment on themselves long 
before anyone. 

900
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:32,300
One that came up with the idea 
of post-modernism, you know, he 

901
00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:34,200
was doing that hell. 
Yeah, right, yeah. 

902
00:50:34,500 --> 00:50:39,100
I mean, I think with python, you
have to decide that you're into 

903
00:50:39,100 --> 00:50:42,400
it rather than they don't 
attempt to convince you or 

904
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,300
anything, you know, they don't 
live. 

905
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:46,700
There's not much of a drawbridge
down with both, you sort of have

906
00:50:46,700 --> 00:50:49,900
to, you have to be in on it. 
And that's again, that's why I 

907
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:52,900
think, you know, life crying is 
such a powerful film because 

908
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:55,100
it's about, it's about a 
subject, everyone knows about 

909
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:58,600
the rather than just kind of 
absurd stuff. 

910
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:00,700
Yeah. 
They're all brilliant B. 

911
00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:03,500
But, but, yeah, I find, I find. 
It's quite cold. 

912
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:06,600
Is that the other thing? 
Yes, maybe that's it. 

913
00:51:06,700 --> 00:51:09,700
And the thing is that the thing 
is, they are absolutely from my,

914
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,100
you know, I've of that 
background. 

915
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:17,300
But I'm, you know, if there was 
a program ever, the, if that's 

916
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:20,300
how you formed your taste just 
to, you know, if identity 

917
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:23,800
politics view of what comedy 
should like, I ought to owns 

918
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,900
like Monty Python. 
Yeah, because it does their 

919
00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:28,400
Oxbridge in their middle class 
and there. 

920
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:30,600
You know, all that sort of 
thing. 

921
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,200
And yet some of it I find kind 
of really, really cold and 

922
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,400
wearing their brains on their 
sleeves and all that sort of 

923
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,000
stuff just doesn't necessarily 
appeal to me. 

924
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:45,700
Yeah, it David go David Quantic 
on last year and he said, he 

925
00:51:45,700 --> 00:51:48,000
said the opposite. 
He said he was predisposed. 

926
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,800
Not to like python here. 
I'd just because I guess because

927
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,300
I was upbringing and he said he 
just is smacked of six former 

928
00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:58,700
showing off so, yeah. 
But it yeah. 

929
00:51:59,100 --> 00:52:00,600
Yeah, yeah. 
I can see that well, which is 

930
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,800
why when I was six former, so 
many people liked it, you know? 

931
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,300
Yeah, yeah. 
I think it's very interesting 

932
00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:09,800
that people are. 
Now going back to have another 

933
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,400
look at Spike, but just me, you 
know, Nick Newman nickname and 

934
00:52:12,700 --> 00:52:16,000
in his love of done that play 
about really about him, him 

935
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,700
being a thorn in the BBC side, 
and sterically was actually, and

936
00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:27,500
all that sort of thing. 
And I, I mean, I think the sort 

937
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,400
of it would be very interesting 
to see if there is a way of 

938
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:35,100
readdressing Spike and where, 
you know, where he, where he 

939
00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:38,700
sits in things and his War 
Memoirs are, I think, genuinely 

940
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:43,300
One is the best second world 
woman was you could ever read 

941
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:46,300
and you can, you can, you can 
read, you could read all sorts 

942
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:50,000
of things from them that perhaps
weren't necessarily obvious. 

943
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,400
I mean, what are the historians 
are? 

944
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,800
I've worked with on the podcast,
he's things that he's into think

945
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,500
equals boring War, he's not 
interested in battles. 

946
00:52:57,500 --> 00:52:59,200
He's interested in logistics, 
right? 

947
00:52:59,900 --> 00:53:04,100
And when you read, when you read
spikes Memoirs, his point gets 

948
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:07,600
proven wherever they go, they 
never hungry the metal spikes 

949
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,200
battery, Chase, Jack's battery 
or always well fed and are 

950
00:53:10,207 --> 00:53:12,200
always well looked after. 
And you think right? 

951
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,600
So that that actually he's 
telling us that and that that 

952
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,600
that when you, when you think of
the war in a different way, you 

953
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:24,400
illuminates things and he's 
those Memoirs, I think some of 

954
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,300
the greatest books about 
friendship you'll ever read. 

955
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:28,400
Mmm. 
Yeah, that's well as being 

956
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,200
historical record. 
And I think, you know, I would, 

957
00:53:31,300 --> 00:53:36,700
I would stay, you know, that the
interesting thing about Milligan

958
00:53:36,700 --> 00:53:43,600
is the sort of And given all the
things people say about it, is 

959
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,400
that the man's humanity is like,
laying bare. 

960
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:48,800
He doesn't hide anything and 
that's if that's fascinating 

961
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,600
thing. 
There's no, he's not. 

962
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:54,300
He's doesn't hold back. 
Yeah, that's an old back, that's

963
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:55,100
for sure. 
Yeah. 

964
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,300
And I think he was working 
through stuff, wasn't he? 

965
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:03,700
It was the worst part of the 
kind of a catharsis writing 

966
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:06,200
these Memoirs. 
He was working through stuff 

967
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,200
that had happened. 
What? 

968
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:09,300
20 30 years before. 
Yeah. 

969
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,700
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. 
And it's very interesting to 

970
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:16,600
people do people do love them 
but he got I'm plug James gave 

971
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,600
me a real kick in so that they 
were, you know, they were 

972
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,500
bullshit, they're unreliable. 
That was of thing and which is 

973
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,300
always to me, has been a source 
of great disappointment because 

974
00:54:25,300 --> 00:54:29,200
I love absolutely love both. 
Hopefully these guys and it's It

975
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,900
felt like they were falling out.
Yeah. 

976
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,900
Miss Clive James. 
Oh yeah. 

977
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:41,300
So you got the touring Scotland 
at the moment and well we're 

978
00:54:41,300 --> 00:54:43,400
winding up we're winding up the 
summer. 

979
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,400
Then we don't Fringe it all 
because then I'm out against the

980
00:54:45,408 --> 00:54:48,000
rest of the year. 
So we're out till they are. 

981
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,700
September. 
October November, really? 

982
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,700
It just, it, just it just 
pouring just rolls on forever. 

983
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:58,300
Yeah, yeah, luckily I like it. 
So. 

984
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,600
If the is the pub landlord work 
dries up, you could consider 

985
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:06,100
becoming in Mick. 
Lynch, tribute act. 

986
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,900
Really reckon. 
It's amazing, is that ten days 

987
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:12,100
ago? 
No one, no one really knew who 

988
00:55:12,107 --> 00:55:17,000
make Lynch was no. 
Well, listen out, thank you so 

989
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,900
much for the finding time to 
speak to me today and I wish you

990
00:55:20,908 --> 00:55:25,800
all the best with the with, with
the show with young with 

991
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,200
everything basically and and 
Maybe we will speak again. 

992
00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:32,000
Maybe I'll see you in Salford 
when you when you turn in 

993
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,400
Salford. 
Yeah, well, don't get in touch 

994
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,500
and we'll make sure you're at 
the show. 

995
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,100
Don't worry. 
Thanks again to our, thank you 

996
00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:42,700
for listening. 
I will be back next week with 

997
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,100
another show till then take it 
easy. 

998
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:45,800
Bye.