Recorded guy with the trunk in the John.
Ha ha, ha, chocolaty clothes chocolate eclairs.
Ask you what could be more beautiful?
More desirable than my job? The declares I love you.
Do understand nod your head if you understand.
I love you. I love love, love you.
Hello and welcome to do pod this week.
I'm talking to the scaffold. The acclaimed comedy review
group and hit makers who formed in the early 60s and were part
of that generation, which followed in the wake of the
goons and were much influenced by them, such as the, On The
Fringe, the bonzo's and later Python and the goodies.
I hope you enjoy the interview which is not focusing so much on
the goons but we do discuss them and Spike Milligan in
particular. It was a real treat speaking to
the three of them. When I was at Primary School,
way back in the 1980s, every Friday afternoon.
We would be herded into the Assembly Hall and made to sing.
A whole bunch of songs accompanied by mrs.
Muir on an upright piano, which was very, very badly in need of
tuning. None of us kids enjoyed this
ordeal and the more rebellious of our number would either mouth
the words or simply not even attempt to join in.
While always being wary of Is the Massey's roving eye and
Readiness with a steel ruler, the songs were usually terrible
and included, things like Granddad and toe knee chest.
Nut nose eye, love him, which required physical actions, as
well as singing and, and also things like the Banana Boat
Song, the only time any of us perked up.
And actually engaged, with the whole thing was on those rare
occasions, when the gods Shawn down on us and mrs.
Muir would play the first few notes of Lily the pink and they
would, Be a wolf of recognition, which would ring around the hall
and we'd all sing along lustily, oftentimes squatting down and
jumping up along with the chorus and a wonderful time was had by
all. And it's interesting that that
song by the scaffold and another of their hits actually informed
my childhood in a quite memorable fashion.
I'll come back to the other song later so it gives me enormous
pleasure to welcome them to the podcast.
Roger mcgough, Gorman and Mike McCartney.
Hello, hello, Tyler. Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining me today. And this is ahead of you.
You're coming back together for a special show or two shows, I
believe on the 29th of October at the every man in Liverpool
and this is, I didn't know that. Yeah, one of the scaffold.
Sorry, I'm just getting together.
Where is it? Where is it?
Liverpool. Yeah, just in case there's
anyone, listen to this because I have, I do have listeners if
there's anyone listening to this who's not aware.
I mean, this is, this is to Mark the I guess it's the 60th
anniversary of the three of you first performing together coming
together and Performing now. I think I'm right in saying On
John, you were one of the if not the chief driver behind the
first merseyside Arts Festival. Is that right?
I that was in June with that was June the 6th 1962.
Okay. Wanted after the festival is
over. I wanted to keep the name alive.
Go to avoid having to wait 12 months before the next Festival
people have lost interest. So the idea was to do something
on a regular basis and I rang NG Leslie blond who only hope Hall
which is now the Everman theater to see whether he could help.
And he gave me a Tuesday evening because it was nothing happening
because the cinema that was there, I'd stop doing the full
week on and we're only doing Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
So he, I went to mr. Bramble, who was the manager of
the building? And he said, well, choose days
available. Okay, we'll do that.
And on an October 1962. We did the first night and 106,
people turned up and rather Strangely.
I was at the every moment last night.
But a poetry reading and is in exactly the same room. 106
people, there are you joking? Absolutely Liverpool One fat
lady all-electric show, well, we had no name at that time.
We were I'd just a gang of people and each week more and
more people turned up to perform and we eventually end up with
probably twit between 20 and 30. People who were performing and
they were doing poetry. They were doing chats.
They were doing music, and I had gone to see Alan Williams at the
Blue Angel Club because that was the club in Liverpool, where all
the groups who have been playing around a little bit at the time
and is reputed to be over 900 groups, but go down there after
they finish digging. So, that was the place to go.
So in to see Alan, and he agreed to let us have Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, and Thursday, because we're very busy Friday,
Saturday, and Sunday. And I said, okay?
And from the 20 yard that were on in the Everyman theater, I
chose eight. Which included Mike Collins
Jenny BT. Mike McCartney, Roger mcgough,
helium Mortimer. Of us and we need of the title
know most of us lived in Liverpool 8.
So they thought well, that big great thing will be call
ourselves, the Liverpool, won fat lady which is bingo
terminology 48. Yeah, non-electric show because
will not doing any music. So the first night, the Monday
night, we all turned up and there's a, it was downstairs,
very small stage and Alan said, okay, I'll introduce you.
So we start at one side of the stage and I said, this is the
title though. He livable one fat lady
non-electric show Allen enjoyed his drink immensely and went on
to the small stage and said, ladies and gentlemen, first time
down here, the gray people who do societal a sort of stuff and
it's the ladies Fat loss Factor, ladies, the ladies of the number
and any way they are. And in this literally shuffled
on you tonight, exactly the same Wednesday night, exactly the
same. So we said it's never going to
catch on this name. So we need a better name, so I
was living in 88 Rodney Street. So we had a meeting to decide
what we should do. I had a book called roget's
thesaurus, which means red hot glue coming together when they
open the first opened. It just a page at random and the
top left. And side.
The first word was football. So we kicked that around for a
while. Oh, I get it.
Very nice so we couldn't make that catching open the page
another page and the top left hand corner was scaffold.
There's an LP out at the time called on the scaffold.
I was a film called lift of the scaffold I've seen that.
It's good for ya. So we said, well, we'll try it
for 10 years. Is that the music genres?
What was I wrong? Yeah, I mean there's an LP mind.
I'll tell you, is on the cover of the Miles Davis.
I know this to recently. It was young, Morrow was on the
cover of the right move is lifted.
This couple do then got in the scaffold, wouldn't you?
She'd be great game if you bring the perfect.
On yes, yes. Okay, so Roger obviously, you
would you doing your poetry? But you've been a teacher whole
university, that was no seizure and local.
Yeah. Okay, Kevin's.
Yeah. Oh,
Later to be televisions Lewis Collins that right.
Bones are ladies Barber corrected, Andhra Bernards.
If he sent her handing up to a gentleman called Like weinblatt
who kept saying, I go to the Rose Bowl, the doing all these
events and happenings and you you'd like it, you're sort of
artistic. I wanted to go to art college
and couldn't get in and so I went down to the Hope or and
watch these people John Roger Adrian Henry was part of the and
by the way John you know that big Thing.
We keep saying the Liverpool won fat lady non-electric show and
I've all you all my life, I found a piece of paper, the
original piece of paper what we will call and we work or the
Liverpool, One fat lady all alone and I tried to correct
that lady didn't. It's on a piece of paper and
I've got the proof and that's that Okay, Mike.
What did you do? What did you build yourself as
me? Yeah, I was night in the car.
Me, you're my blank. I crying.
Oh no, no, thank you. Thank you for reminding me of
that, Tyler. And so you could remembrance
thank you. I helped John Gorman.
Watching my God agent Henry. Jennifer BT and Syria Mortimer.
A greatly coming from my lady's. Apprentice, Barber ship.
And going to the Hope or All the time as much as it could and I
help them and particularly John merseyside, Arts Festival, go
greatly for many, many months. And then eventually the
merseyside Arts Festival programme came out and so
greatly worked so hard for the eventual scuffle.
I thought it's going to be great joy, seeing my name in print,
for all the hard work I've done so is only 86 bus.
Going down to false, then rode on the top of the bus in the
smoke and they're on the piece of babe, I opened up the main
contributors and I read them. All right, Graham bathroom, but
all of government work off all these wonderful people.
My name isn't there, so I thought, oh, oh dear.
So I went to the back and there's like extra people and
they're all like, nobody's that did nothing.
And I thought, I hoped so much that and then I went back to the
front of what I had forgotten to tell you all is right in the
beginning of this one. Calm was doing the right being.
What's your name again to me? And because our kid was in a
group of very popular group, Liverpool of that time.
And our surname, my name is McCartney and her name was
getting a bit sort of famous at that time.
And so I II. He said, what's your name?
I said oh God, leave that blank as a joke but Ian and so there I
go back to the fronting there, amongst all the luminaries, all
the people that contributed was Michael blank.
T belong and you got you seem to get onto from what I can see.
You seem to get on telly quite quickly.
Yes. We would Talent spotted that
when we were doing the Blue Angel.
Hmm. What are the friends of Celia's?
Her boyfriend was a journalist Rod Jones, who worked with the
people and Tom Brennan, Android bottomley who Tom was from
Crosby. They ran a news agency in
Manchester, but television, for ABC, television and Peaceable
only had been doing an insert for the program on Comedy, but
he left Liverpool to become a monk in Africa, and so they rang
up. Do you know anybody in Liverpool
who could take his place and he said, well strange enough my
girlfriend. Who goes on to the blue engine.
See her friend. She told me about this group and
one of the people who's leading it was me.
And so, one morning, there was a knock on my flat dollars living
in darkness trees and Liverpool, I own didn't Rod Jones says can
you ring this number in Manchester come Brennan, reverse
charges went to a phone box. I rang them up and he said, what
we're interested in all these musical groups that are
appearing a loophole. But we wanted to do somebody,
somebody come along and do a funny side of it.
So I said yeah okay no problems. They sent a limousine from
Manchester. Hmm!
Pick me up from the flat drove me to Manchester.
I did the insert just doing spoofs about the music, they
paid me £12.50 at the time. I was on the Dole getting four
pounds and the The limousine brought me back to Liverpool
three weeks later. I got a telegram to say, would
you ring tomblin? And again, I'll be, there is
charged, I rang him. He said, have you seen the
article in the Echo from the Liverpool cancel because the so
fed up with all this pop nonsense in Liverpool, they want
to commission somebody to write a play about the nicer part of
love but like chilled wall, and they're going to pay them two
thousand pounds. Because Tom Brandon was from,
Crosby. He said well you and I know that
nobody incur in chilled well, does anything?
It all comes from a mixture of people.
So I said, okay, well we do have an idea.
This is a Shakespearean liberal Shakespearean actor.
I said it takes two people, so that's not a problem.
It's okay. And I ran round to Rogers.
Living. In 44, canning, Street told him
about it. Was they sent a limousine?
Pickers both up on the Saturday? We went out with did.
Sketch. They livable active to be or not
to be. That is the question.
Whether tis nobler in the mind to it, him distinction to suffer
the slings and arrows. So for the slings and arrows and
arrows arrows, over them Outrageous.
Fortune Outrageous Fortune. So, it was very much like that.
They paid us both £12.50 each and then the limo back to opal.
But what we did when we had said to Roger, after the show, will
go into the green room and we'll do some sketches for them.
So, impress them had just been how funny we are at work because
they were looking for a replacement program for Saturday
night. She'd been ABC at large Lloyd,
surely was the zoo was, he was from Ridgely, from Canada and he
heard about this. So here we got contacted Clyde.
Got numerous the director Actors about would be interested in
doing a pilot. So I had to pick five people to
do the pilot so it was Roger Mike, Adrian, Henry, Jenny BG,
and myself, we went down to Teddington lock all expenses,
increase Eagle. We went on the British Eagle
plane. All right, and then we did the
pilot came back up to back home and Lloyd then.
You said well we're interested in going ahead.
So we'd like to answer before you make a decision but doing a
show at the opal and Sunday evening, why didn't you come and
see, you got a better idea. They turned up in the whole of
the front rows. These big group of people all
dressed in suits and alike. So you knew they weren't normal
people. We did the show afterwards, you
went to the Blue Angel to chat and I sat in the surge with
Lloyd, surely. He says, yeah, definitely want
to use you guys but I've got a small favor to ask ask away.
He said, well you Roger and Mike.
Okay, but I'm just a little bit concerned about Adrian and
Jenny, he said, because they are a little on the plump side.
And at that time television, if you were like that, it because
it was flattened. Yeah, major look bigger.
So, he said that we've got these two people in London, that we've
been working with John White and shield firm like to like it to
do a pilot with them. See how he gets on, we said
yeah. Okay, so I had to tell Jenny and
Adrian went on Aidan never spoke to me again because he's nice.
Is that John again Zach is that we were all has yet became
possessed. Yeah.
Then we'll book to do seven weeks with possible follow-on of
other weeks. If it worked, we did I moved for
those seven weeks. We, each got 44 pounds each.
That's right. All our expenses when we went
down to London, we got the £12.50 substance symptoms
substance. And then maybe, when we went up
to match, we got all our expenses.
So we then went and the pocket. We got paid extra money.
When we did finish the seven weeks, it took up the option for
another six weeks. Then he took up another
eventually did 26 weeks. Wow!
And then so when it was over, I had in the bank, I had over
1,600 pounds and I opened a boutique in Liverpool with the
money. Yeah, because we've been on
television, we were then we could play anywhere in the
Northwest. We, we were not non-stop playing
clubs and places like that. So, That was a long as if you
like into the world of Show Business.
Joining, one of the shows in the audience of the, the television
show, Pat Burke, who was our agent and brought along Tom
Mitchell from Edinburgh who owned the Travis theater.
And he saw isn't talk, we were really brilliant and he booked
us to appear at the Travis theater.
Unfortunate. The festival was over by then,
but we Pierce immediately at the Edinburgh, festival, and
finished in the Travis are seated 60, people within three
weeks and immediate were immediately booked to do the
following year and then we did the next selling seven years
going to invest, what mom. So it is all a matter of like a
degree of luck. But being in the right place at
the right time doing the right thing, Tyler, do you want to
hear little story about the 60 Sita Travis?
Oh God. Yeah, please who's great, that.
Tiny little place and the big trick that the end of the things
first half was to get up to the bars.
Two staircases on either side of the stage through very thick
tenement building, on the way the wrote to the Royal Mile and
the big trick was to get up to the bar before the audience to
get your drinking. And so I'm watching John and
rods doing this. I'll tell you what it was.
This Must Be. This Must Be Love.
And You Remember John, Raj, that one time, when the drunken
Scotsman, you probably remember his hair was in a sketch of ever
seen in my life. That's yeah, that's why he said
this must be, this must be a sketch of my life.
So anyway, we had a good that one was Quick, I had to get up
to the bar so I linked up the boys are just and love Must Be
Love. What up the stairs?
Got to the bar, just get me ordering, and there's a couple
out of the corner of my eye obviously professionals, and
linked up the back of the circuit to get to the bar first.
But I just watched about the corner of my eye and got my
drinking scotch and Coke, whatever it was for the boys.
And then eventually we just about to go Look down at the
could field daggers coming from the to as I victims will post
and that their the end of the bar.
These to the record Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor,
never heard of them. Well, there's a card codicil to
that because when I went up to the bar later on, there was
nobody else in there except this couple in the corner.
Thanks, and Tom, the barman behind the bars.
Big mirror, where all the glasses were kept and I go Go to
the bar and as Mike said, there was this couple of.
But they say the man had his back to me and Tom came.
I said, could you serve a glass of beer because the adrenaline
for doing the show, he broke the glass.
Oh, and as I lifted up the glass and I looked in the the mirror I
could see that the man with his back to me was Richard Burton.
So I tapped him on the shoulder and he turned to me and said,
Dickie, big admirer of yours is it all It'll buy you a drink?
Yes, I'll have a scotch, please. I tell, how did he tell you
what? He take to Dickie.
Just took it normally. I mean, I think you should too
shocked anyway. I tend to Thomas said, large
whiskey for my friend. Please look around Richard and I
said, what about you? Judy?
And she looked across the do Jin please.
I said, no large in the Dickies Judy, and they picked up the
glasses. I picked up my, I drank mine.
They took a sip and I'd finish and I tend to go and he said,
oh, I'll buy you drink now. And I said, no, it's alright
because I know you act as don't get paid very much the way but
it was no, it wasn't in his Memoirs a checked.
Are you joking? Roger.
The names the places, but put them together in a sequence,
going to quite in sync, you even becoming, I guess you were
becoming better known well known being on TV and everything.
How are you reacting to that? Well, that took a while ready
because I was again, I was already a teacher when I started
and then I gave that up when Johnson we got one on telly and
that was I was good. I am never taking early
retirement as I truth. For four years.
And then I took a return or if I just stayed on another like
three or four years teaching, I've got the pension teachers,
pension all my life never did. So the pensions are the basic
one. That's my only regret and but it
was. Yeah, it was all, I don't say
this or exciting and really, and just being there meeting Brennan
and bottomley, who are very important people in our lives.
And Lord, surely ABC, television and Clyde could ruin, became our
director, a friend of ours. And it seemed to be the way to
go. We didn't question it and we
just went along, and, of course, then we got onto BBC, and
working, then, it became a sort of more more difficult because
people were less and you agree, that's when when Billy cotton
and people were head of BBC, they're not exactly joonyoung
review people, you know, Who became your couldn't Cambridge
Footlights will be different and working-class little pool.
That was a lot of people have and look people I think, you
know, we're a bit as the way about the Poetry, you know,
poetry is belongs somewhere has its place in society and it's
not really in in Liverpool and cell phones.
So you know that go into this, that's different.
There was just one, we I think we broke lots of fun.
We made it easier for lots of people to dance with the
scaffold. Doing what we do.
Yeah, absolutely. Good job to be able to sing like
good records, except my car. Well, that's going to say some.
So you transitioned you would you have mainly doing more sort
of performance in comedy. And then you see to transition
to It on some guy in Nigeria, found
this extraordinary type of scaffold live at The Talk of the
Town and there's a bit in. It were its we hadn't seen this.
We have to go, John Raj, Mike had to go with the given the
family to the BFI and London to see this thing broadcast in
front of them, a little audience.
And so we're watching this thing and so it's as though we're in
the audience were watching these people and their Prime, the
white suits etcetera, singing sketches Etc and suddenly came
to the Poetry bit and there is Roger and Andy Roberts doing a
very serious boy poem. And I thought to myself, oh boy
this is going to be a big test of really What what what you
just said then what we were doing was that I was very heavy,
comment in a nice little Lively whack of wit way is Roger doing
his part. I'm really thinking shit is too
heavy for the audience so he did it and he's a very, very
straight. I just thought the audience will
God. It got to the end and he does it
last His guitar and the audience went apeshit.
They loved it. Nothing.
Like the King was released in 1974, which was Him
Live performing at Cambridge University and it was him and
the musician. We tailor, the Jeremy was
Jeremy. Yep.
Was there with this guitar and during was, he's great.
I love his stuff and Jeremy. So much Spike would just be
doing. It was just like a mixed bag of
poetry of jokes of readings from the war, Memoirs pakkun and
things like that to order to an audience of largely of students,
okay? And the majority of it was Yeah
it was funny was it was gags it was jokes and things like that
but then occasionally Spike would recite a serious poem like
he did a poem about our F K's assassination and you could hear
a pin drop. And there was a there was a It
just a kind of an awkwardness to it.
I see barbaric. Sodium City lamps pretending.
They can see they make a new Mad Darkness beyond their orange
pools, the black endlessness of time beckons and what in that?
Unseen dark tomorrow is waiting, that iron sharp tomorrow coming
on unknown Wheels, who was the driver?
Will he see us all in time? But quite was they worship the
serious but is about his poetry, that's when I met him.
Jimmy's book, Tales go to his books.
His poetry books and is always one of his books and Hunters to
Roger a fellow sufferer, right? And that's what I thought it
was. Worried about the world from the
web from early early Agent Lee. He's a oh yeah nervous and
panicky. Absolutely but remember when
those men Lisa August 1996 my daughter was born and is about
just being born and excited. Nestle.
And then, the foam goes one morning and pick it up.
Spike, do I? I know, sometimes my memories
are there. Baby's.
All right. Yeah, yeah yeah.
Growing body of your many people involved.
You know, it's Eric Bakker tessellations by but that's
that's the thing. It means we squared off, it
could be P here. Do you need for five kids of his
own? Yeah,
I mentioned at the beginning that there was another song of
yours that I I grew up with when I was because I grew up in, you
may have picked up from my accent that I grew up on the
other side of the world and in it's not far enough away.
Hey, it is it is but but every every other year I want to say
in the 80s when I was growing up, we had Telly.
Thought Ellie's on weekends, where it was just like comic
relief before comic relief if you know what I mean, you know,
the sort of thing and it was you would have international Stars.
The ones that you know the ones that were prepared to travel to
New Zealand for a minimal fee. Like, Christopher Quentin from
Corey Street people that, you know, but the point I want to
make is that every now and then because it was, it was like a 24
hour or 48-hour live Extravaganza on the TV and every
couple of hours, they would stop everything and say, right?
Look at, let's look at the total money that we've raised so far
and whatever it would be, you know, three and a half million
dollars or whatever and everyone would share Here.
And then they would play. Thank you very much for about 5
minutes, then everyone would sort of clapping cheering, jump
up and down. I'm at the RS4 that.
Yeah, and that was your first rips.
I think you had it. You'd had a hit before then, but
thank you very much with your first real hits it, right?
The first record release was called today's Monday and it
sold 5,000 records. Next record we released was good
bat night, man, that sold 350 records.
It's okay. And so am I in the right said?
Well, that's basically it, but we would come.
They would committed because of contracts through Brian Epstein
that we had to have a new single every year.
And Mike had gone down to London with this idea.
Thank you very much song and we recorded it but they wouldn't
release it because they didn't think it'd go anywhere and as
rich Richard Armitage from Mil Gaya agency, who would medicine
in Edinburgh. One show and persuade us to sign
with him. So, we left Brian scientist
Richard and he said, he got anything on going.
We said, well, Mike Stone this song.
Thank you very much with here, my God.
So he ran up rang up Rod, white who was one of the principal
people there and said, could he send over a copy of the record?
Richard played it. And thought this is going to be
a winner and persuaded him to release.
Says, and that was early October in 1907.
Hold on, John. Don't forget the bit where they
had because we didn't sell any records.
They cancel the center's. A letter saying you crap.
You don't sell records. Yeah.
We'll let you go. Yeah, Armitage had a letter
saying you finished yet but I say he persuaded.
Send the record over. Yeah.
And when he listened to it he persuaded them to release it
which they did earlier. October 67 and because I had
this Boutique and in Liverpool and the girls were machinist and
it came in one lunchtime and the record was played on radio
merseyside and all the girls went into the top hundred,
something like 97 and then it jumped to the top 50.
Jump to the top 30 went into the top 20 then, when Into the top
10 and ended up at number four in the chart.
Thank you very much for the bed and that opened.
So many doors for us because we got so far with the television
series, but the record is admit different.
Audience. The record in itself was
inspiring in that respect, and lots of people, loved it, like
the royal family. Print remember, Princess
Margaret when we did that Royal concert as she was walking along
the line with Tony armstrong-jones.
And she came to us and said, oh yes, let's go girls.
We've been practicing, you know, very much and I said, gosh, you
sound just like something from Liverpool and you remember,
Toney Armstrong. Joan has a had a velvet jacket
on the green Bond and used him where he got it from and he
wouldn't answer because he can't ask them questions.
Yeah, really. I'm Vince is Alexander to member
me John with the big black velvet tie.
Yeah, and I was wearing that somewhere, another Royal
occasion, but no, that was at the Savoy Hotel but we doing Tom
the Tommy shop with With 80th birthday, that's right.
And we although they want to do is to sing the song, and it's
the that group that back does. We rehearse the number in this
small room and they princess Alexandra and Tommy swaths up
with and Lady suppers and other people were in the banqueting
room next door. Having a meal when they finish
the old came in, those 20 of them, Tommy, and Lady shop.
It's a tenacity with all these People behind including the
princess Alexander and her husband Ogilvy.
Yeah, and he was drunk, he could hardly stand.
That's right. You took my number think she
took yours. Is finally no no, it's a
finished that thing. You're absolutely right.
John? Think I thinkwell John.
Let's be honest. I think ask him for us.
I think you are after your cousin Logan was out of it as
Princess Anna was after was it well anyway lady we know
whatever name is came up to me and like you know the big velvet
Black Velvet. I Hi.
And she leant over to me and stroke the time sort of feeling
the quality of of the velvet and I and she said, oh what a
Charming? Ty, did you have it made?
Is that? Yeah, did actually and they said
it's just like yours. And I've forgotten the Royals
and it suddenly went over to test her velvet and I was making
a right Royal breast of myself. Oh Lord, good.
The scaffold. She's very neat.
Mike. I'm not going to ask you the
question everyone. Asks I'm not going to bother
asking about the entry I and what that means.
Okay. I know.
How do you know how that song was conceived?
I do, I don't good. Well, this is the thing because
I know that it was to thank your brother for for a camera, wasn't
it? And they can't gamma it.
But is this correct? And this might be complete
Hokum, but is it right that your brother advised you to drop the
angel iron line because he said it was two oblique?
The thing. Exactly.
Right. There you go.
You've got all eyes or is. What does he know?
Yeah. But hang on, but this is a man
who was quite happy to retain the line.
The movement you need is on your shoulder at a year later.
And that's that's the kind of a much more oblique than that, he
actually. They helped with the recording
arkad because we were recording. Thank you very much in Abbey
Road and it was okay, but didn't Sparkle and he was going through
to his Beetle to him. I don't know Pepper or something
and dropped into the studio, I can't remove the producer was
think it was a young lad and we played the track to him.
And so our kid said okay I've Got a few ideas to the producer,
can I go in and have a chat to them?
Use those and so the video producer.
Yeah, you joking a beetle helping out on the record
that'll do. And so the arcade pops it and
you could see these are all session men, right?
Because scaffold don't never have never will because you play
instruments. Is that right Lads?
You still don't clap for practicing practicing,
practicing the piano. No piano.
Okay, John, I've got a ukulele. Okay.
Well, you keep practicing both in the boys in those days we
didn't. And so we had to have a session
then when these the top London session then so suddenly there
is the liverpudlians cows get going into these top so you
could see on the faces out And so they were very sort of
dismissive and I'll keep quietly went over to each one and said,
hey you know that drums if you did that that that that oh,
that's a good idea before I actually go into all of them,
little bit on the base of the did that than the to quietly and
they were all happy with less for me to do great.
Yeah. And suddenly, when he came back
and we all played but the, the track that is the track to.
Thank you very much. Was the move for and the what's
the name of the Queen Mother? And the prime minister's
favorite it. And that's how he helped on
them. Excellent.
And then, and then you had its speed through every deadly, the
paint, which was number one which around the world.
Yeah. We certainly heard it in New
Zealand. I grew up with it.
Well, we weren't that loud, Jack.
Great, Jack Bruce on base, I believe.
Is that right? That was in, as I say, we've had
station, man. That was in the control room,
nollie paramour. Also use it on Lily and we were
in tell you, we were the big number three.
The, All You Need Is Love Studio because we couldn't get into to
where we usually worked and no nose. 13 was Pink Floyd.
They were in the all the time to was the beetle, want handles.
And so we had to go to number one, the only needed.
Syria. And so I'm looking at the screen
at them users and I said, Mike Vickers from Manfred.
Mann was a musical arranger and I said to Mike, what's he doing
that? You know, it's just a job in
needs the money. So went out and said to Jack
Bruce of cream, anything you want to do quietly Jack,
anything you want to do this song, you know, you do it.
So he should have to tell you the truth.
My I've been looking at that and I think the best thing for Lily.
The pink is boom. Boom, boom, boom, boom.
Wasn't that a right? Dwight playing the piano.
No. And you know why?
I know that John because of Justin a film about Nicky
Hopkins called the session map, right?
He was the Nicky Hopkins, I just thought he would Rolling Stones,
I found out from this phone. But he was beaten, the big
beagle stuff. He did when our kid wasn't on
the piano as Stones Etc. Hose as you know when we did,
what was it called Goose wasn't it Etc.
And I hadn't realized that it's totally forgotten.
So it was a Nicky Hopkins, not L, Elton was our backing singer,
all right? Really, I'm one of them.
Listen to that. It's almost a surreal so it's
like was a goon like and it's yeah, the realism guys get going
up. No, no, it's not me.
But it's a natural thing about Jennifer Nettles.
I wanted to talk about about your experiences of growing up
listening to do Chillin and whatnot and meets Michael or
whatever I guess. I know that.
Roger you and Jonna Slightly older than Mike.
Did you Did you sort of listen religiously to the Goon show at
the time? It was an absolute must.
Yeah yeah I remember you include to the radio and
just listening to it. I was like, yeah to do it
listening to your goons and you know, the sort of mean for I'd
like to we're brought them expose on radio comedy but you
know, admire and hmm. Well, this is our program says
Ted, Ted Ted rain stuff but suddenly getting the Goon sounds
like wild fits. Was there the play on words,
Madness, the voices, Peter cells, one of my voice singing.
He's had so much going for it, you know, just surreal and just
appealing Suppose it is a bit like wait wait yeah look at it
and and you were at how University you weren't there at
the same time as Larkin. William I was that were locking.
Yeah he was just I was he was so bored in this hole has a small
about 70 students and even sleep.
So wouldn't but I was just, yeah, I just writing then young,
you know, and I wouldn't have known what to Center, but he was
is implants mean. He was quite kind to me, let's
rock. All right, yeah, what I can.
Tell you is in our house in fourth in Road.
We used to have an album called songs for Swingin.
Sellers. We have sure was Peter Sellers
with haughty Jake's, and people like that.
And it would my brother. And I used to listen to this
religiously one of our favorite albums were very silly, but hey,
George Burns. Only year later, there is our
favorite album with the cover. Songs is going sellers on the
cover. You'd never be allowed to do it
now. Guy swinging from a tree is,
yeah, that's about the cover of the album but that thing our
favor then I hadn't reached, of course, I wouldn't realize
because the producer of the album it meant absolutely
nothing. Tony years later in retrospect
that you look at the army of the old on this is quite
extraordinary because they're from forth in Road.
And our kid does his group, very successful group, they go down
to London before they great success.
They just and their producer nem.
I was a bloke called George Martin, and then you suddenly
realize, they're on the back of songs of swinging.
Sellers the producer of that is George Martin's, are there.
There's a bit of a, you know, a coincidence.
It's almost like it was meant to be.
Exactly. There's another story we got
time to think about Spike. So in Ronnie's got, it's a
croissant Scott, had a rule that any drunks in the were
immediately thrown out that this it was part of jazz your list
here to listen. And so this was Jazz, long story
short. We are on this thing.
It was going to be, whoo! Whoo!
We're going to be with Lads that
flu. Play with stuck flutes of his
nose. Great so great.
So just looking just guy was me, who that was Ruby?
No, it wasn't even true Bank, he went to see him in the old
Scott's and he handed out all these Penny, whistles, and the
audience joined in. And as soon as right he's got
said he was playing. I can't think of his bloody
name. Anyway, we ended up with, Girl,
from Ipanema. What's his name?
Boys? Whose I'm just trying to think
of the American blood. Yeah, we're all not Jose.
What's his name? And so anyway, it doesn't
matter. Stan Getz went on, its cover
went on Stan, gets burned, on scaffold, went on Stan Getz.
Finished it. That was the evening of all he's
got and the big thing is no drunks.
And so I'm watching throughout the performance has been well,
and I thought I'd guys are bit sort of getting away with it and
it suddenly came to chocolate eclair and this drunk was wrong.
Yeah. So I'm are clapping and well,
Wow. And I thought bloody hell.
He's ruining his kids because it's a great.
Chocolate eclairs is extraordinary bit of theater and
so scaffold, the John and vultures finished came off.
And all of us a new that drunk in there.
What the hell's going on? Ronnie's got games through, we
said, hey Ronnie. The ruling Ronnie Scott is
drunks, are thrown out. How was all about that word guy
was really drunk, he said, that trunk was Spike.
Milligan clean, Zia. So demonstrative, did you meet
him? Yeah, 07 not so tough to
remember that time, but maybe this is on my own, I think it
was. One of us.
Can think we were walking along, something like Berkeley.
And this old battered mini draw? Any of you with me?
Yeah. Oh we do you John.
I'm just listening. Go on.
So remember this Worm baby on me.
And we thought this old battered mini, bulldozer Goes
beep-beep-beep To Nature and their Spike Milligan, say, do
you want to lift mine and I thought he is a guy that's one
of the leading stars of this country.
Could have a Rolls-Royce could do anything.
And vitamin very Spike chose to have this old dilapidated
rundown. Many He dead.
He was dirty only be washed. Yeah, that wasn't answered.
That wasn't down to because he was tight.
It was more good environmental concerns really way ahead.
Hmm. And John you you played mate in
the in a special room bed sitting room is that was at the
Sheffield play house with Karis Australian was the director.
When was that exactly That was in the 70s.
Okay, yeah, that is 70s. And I, when I got that off of
the path by Frank Harris, I thought I'd be good to speak to
spike about it, so I rang up normal bonds.
It was the, his agent home court in London, so, do you?
Yes, I'll mention to spike. She rang me back and said he'd
like to meet you. I said, yeah, that'd be
brilliant. So go down to London, go to home
court and go into the office to see Norma.
And I'm sitting there and she said, it shouldn't be too long.
He's on his way and the phone rings.
And she answers the phone and she's must have said, yes, he's
here and then put the phone down and send you said, he's
definitely coming. And I waited and it went past
the time that we were supposed to meet. 20 minutes, half an
hour, an hour and he never turned up.
I had to go, huh? So I left and she rang me a week
later the so apologize, but he got caught up in something, but
he'd still like to meet you. So, I went back down to London
back to back into Norma's office and waited.
And she said, you know, he's still definitely be here.
The door opened, And B, but as I drowned, and you said, nice,
one, close the door and disappeared.
She's, and I thought he's just said, can I can I, can I tell
you student? And Mike, I wasn't deliberately
didn't want to talk about Paul McCartney, okay?
But I just really formal, can't me.
Well, I just fight brother based on what John's just said.
I want to quickly share with you a story which I'd like to think
is true. Apparently is true when the
Beatles Anthology they were they were recording or they were,
they were planning the Beatles, Anthology and George.
And Ringo went to Paul's house in Surrey.
In would have been 94, I guess, and they would just sort of
thrashing things out and they got that they reached us of a
point in the day where Paul suggested that they jump in the
car, jump in the land driving and popped out the spikes house,
because Spike was a neighbor just live down the road, okay?
And the three of them thought, it would be just your nice go
and see Spike who they had been friends with were friends with
in the past. You know, and arrived at spikes
house, three, three remaining Beatles, knocked on the door.
Spike eventually answers and says, it's not convenient slams.
The door. Great.
I like the story of Spike would be upstairs in his study
writing. Oh yeah, I need it.
Pick the phone up and bring it to the post office to send a
telegram which was then be delivered to the house.
Dancers is why they get the telegram and it would say, can
you bring me up a cup of tea? I would like to be no immediate
wants to be spikes and all these wonderful correspondence between
the two of them. And it's all about that's about
the best tasting room is, John referred to, you know, talk
about what he's doing in that and you know, it's just very,
it's wonderful work, a sensitive, you know things and
it's very serious in a way. Like Robert tells me funny.
Anyway and yeah, and Spike is all serious and giving his
concerns and so with teachers on the edge of a breakdown, but a
So wonderful wonderful book and because he, you know, he was
very serious about his poetry all his life.
He wrote poems. That's how I met him through
polish government through his poetry.
Yeah and toward the end of his life he was on with, this is
your life for me that's that program even Angie's to do.
Well, what I was about to go on, it was Michael aspel and then we
going on to this your life and I was asked to go on to drop by
the project just a minute of time by the protein and we
depart so on what is books Spike Milligan all the mirror running
because you know, we're loads of books do go with over thirty.
Four books besides is Wahlburgers these poor kids
books, kids. Yeah bro, poetry in this year's
budget and remember the program assists, wait to go on, despite
was great when one of his old friends, come on quickly, any
army friends came on, you really made firstly guy and he's with
his wife. Sheila sit down the corner,
quite old. Then when like Barry Humphries
has shown up on the screen from Australia.
So consent in space with you or all these different American
Comics Spike go, they don't know me.
They don't usually read once I said okay.
So I just opened up the page and here we are there's one poem
called my soldering daughter. Er no, my darling jangling child
where they was. You, please give me your pants
Spike with me. I didn't know that.
I didn't know anything. Let me defend it to the death.
I will not fail. You.
I spent a shining like that. I do and all the way throughout.
Yes. Spike actually, this is like
them and show them, you know? Oh yeah.
Yeah. I want to just talk quickly
about emerged, if that's the word, you merge with the
bonzo's, then you to form the Grimm's or Grimm's?
Tell me about that. What how did that come about?
Well it we've been booked a Jewish.
Oh, we'd never played south of Birmingham because we'd only
been in the north until we got the record for.
Thank you very much record. So we're book to do show at the
Brighton in the Pavilion with a group called The Bonzo dog
doo-dah. Bank which we had never heard
of, and they'd ever heard of us until the records.
They had a record out goal Urban Spaceman.
We went down and on, hold on, hold on, John Jonica to rectify
that it's, they did that after I suggested them for, they were to
go Magical Mystery Tour because that introduce them to our kid
and then our kid wrote and produced that record.
Sorry. Crying So we add in the
contractor, said who's ever record was highest in the chart
of the night of the gig would top the bill.
But we, we were number four and they were number five when we
got to brighten. So we top the bill.
So they went and did the first half.
And if you ever saw the show, it's everything happens.
I'm gonna musically and comedy and everything is just so alive.
And we sat on the front row, really Mi our gate because we
were very tight in without The so we did the second half and it
was on the train going back to London later, we sat in the same
compartment and I said to them was a Pity.
We didn't know what you looked like before because we could
have joined together and mix it up and they said, yeah I then
got in touch David Wilkinson. Who was the agent with no gay
and said would it be possible to book a gig with the bonzo's like
Liverpool for instance and We can play together.
Well, they book the Philharmonic Hall in Liverpool, Manchester
free, trade Hall, and we did the show together, and it was really
couldn't fault in that respect because we were able to fill in
what we did. And we'd also we sang together
things together, and then, but just during the show, one of the
sketches or routines that they had, was that Kabam to play and
there was an explosion look like the amps and fail and They
carried on playing silent. But in the Liverpool filled when
the show was over later on, I got contacted by the manager
saying that a lot of people who because of the explosion, all
the dust which was in the ceiling of the Philharmonic had
come down and they were claiming for the dry cleaning, hang on a
minute, The last time you cleaned the ceiling of the
filaments about never cleaned. It says that I could that be our
fault. Hmm.
Keep it clean. So we wouldn't play we wouldn't
pay when we got to Manchester. Do the free trade Hall.
They put a clause in the contract, saying, no
pyrotechnics. I said to fixed anshel by the
way. Klaus no power Texas and he said
that's no problem. That we would be a father, get
on stage. The first thing they do, We've
been standing at the back of the hole, ran down the center,
aisle, a bunch of the state ran to the light box and pull the
switch. So the whole of the thing went
blank at least at the side of the stage with his arms folded.
Like, this is that will show you what the audience went wild
because they pay to see this show and it was almost like
nearer, right? So I begged, my back in my
finger at them. Manager and he popped his head
out and I just pointed the audience and see that they were
ready to tear the place apart. So you have to run back in and
switch the lights back on again. But that we did at all but with
the Grimm's and Grimm's is gone Roberts in his mcdeere Magog
stench and we played universities all over the
country. Absolutely right.
Could I just say Are you from New Zealand?
Because it just a Gentiles were to come out that sounds like you
could be from New Zealand. My right?
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Is there a prize? Yes.
Wouldn't know him but he was he was like, what is on TV when I
was a kid. Yes, he was Yeah absolutely.
One last thing I'd like to ask or just just one last thing I
want to talk about, if that's okay.
And John unfortunately I'm sorry this I guess this kind of
precludes you but I want to talk about it and the mcgough the
gear album because because I want to I want to talk about one
of the session musicians that worked on that with you and how
that came about. Oh Jimmy, what's owed?
You want to know about him? Well yes, I mean, just in case
people, listen to this moment aware.
But Jimi Jimi, Hendrix was one of your music.
When you're backing musicians. I was a very quick one.
It's called right now. There's no government.
Here are more kid was burning, produced it in the garage.
Yeah, yeah. And so we get our and so our
kids that sorry for all those listening Hang on the podcast
and saying our kid is not my little baby orca deliverable
vernacular for my brother. So our kid said, so we need a
guitar and he said, sure. I asked, Jimmy, I said to me,
you, he said, Jimi, Hendrix. And I said, I was, oh, yeah.
You asked Jimi Hendrix, because he was pretty big at that time.
So, yeah, he's in town. I know he is.
So he did. He asked him and he said to me,
Scott. Into the lane late tomorrow to
do this track called. So would you look so I said,
yeah, okay, believe it. When I see it, the next day,
we've got the door goes and I'll kids working on another track.
He says, you get that might go to the door and Jimi.
Hendrix, I'm expecting him with his Entourage.
With his own crew is good, groupies is drug L whether
there's a little lad with a guitar.
Lovely. Yeah,
I said, would you like we had? Because Roger and I couldn't pay
these people with it was Superstars Graham, Nash, John
Mayall Etc. He's our kid always people and
we couldn't pay him money and contractually was all difficult
anyway. So at least Roger, I could
provide drinks. They are beer, wine, and
Brilliant conversations Lively wacko with said to Jimmy, would
you like anything? There is no, no, I'm cool.
So I'll just go and read. Yes, so it took me to the
studio, we're sitting on delaying only copies and so it's
time for Jimmy to do is is overdub his guitar solo.
And so he's Jimmy said look, Mike, I don't know this song.
Can you tell me when to come in for the solo?
So I said, owner, you'll hear it.
Don't worry about you. You'll hear it.
It's all. It's just in the middle bit
where I stopped singing, you play the guitar and he said,
sure. Okay, no problem.
So I went into the studio a Target so where the song comes
over to num diddly doo, dee doo doo.
I stopped singing and suddenly, why won't I want?
And I don't want solutely Jimi, Hendrix is very best.
And so our kid have been working on pepper.
For months and years and suddenly this Wild, Man of
Borneo is guitar into the infinite.
He said, what do you think? I said yeah yeah he said.
What do you mean? Yeah yeah.
Yo that's to me and is Fanta. Yeah.
Okay great. What do you mean?
Okay, what's your problem? He didn't come in right bit.
So he said so do you want to tell us Jimmy any woman for the
right thing? So I said certainly will so went
out into the studio, sat on the carpet, he played the in sitting
down on the carpet and I said look Jim.
I will tell you I will tell you I will indicate when to come in
for the solo. I'll by tapping your knee and
that's exactly what I did for the solo on so much in love.
So tapped his knee, he did the solo Etc.
I went back into Into the thing and they played it back to me
and so our kids hope. So what do you think?
I said perfect. You came in the right time?
He said no, no compared to the other one when it was the Wild
One. Let's enter.
That's all control etcetera. Which one do you want?
I see. Oh I see.
Oh I see sorry. I don't know that much about
music. Sorry that you're right.
The first one so our kids that oh good the engineer.
Can you put me under the bus? On the engine.
It's a what do you mean? The first one we've been wiping
everyone. That's why I can listen
carefully to that track in here. They'll tap before, Jimmy comes
in that you gave to his death I believe.
Mint leaf is something signed out a of them that our Peter and
have been an Oxfam shop years ago, and it is.
And it was Jimmy's copy that. You two had signed for him and
someone to take it at Deluxe about shop, gentlemen.
Listen, it has been an absolute pleasure and thank you so much
for speaking with me today. Now, we're Roger.
You've got, you've got a couple of books out at the moment.
Tell me about those safety, in numbers.
Is that right? Oh do I?
So right now it's going well go on
and money go round which is a kids book about money going
around. Which I've just been made into a
family of musical which which has been performed down here and
we're going on tour team to help.
Do you ever have any time off for you always working?
I'd like to, but yeah, but yeah well, it's what you do, isn't it
doing things? Keep doing things.
Yeah, and before I get to my plug, John if you got anything
to plug before I get to my loads, So you got nothing to
sell. Well, in terms of writing + 3
equals the way through Rising, climbing Mount Everest by public
transport, which I'm hoping will be out by the end of the year
and the follow-on book will be called the SCS, which you have
got the SAS the SBS, which is special Squad.
And the special boat Squad. This is the special car Squad
and that's us. A spoof on Special Forces and
that would be written for next year and following that will be
st. Enochs in the fold, which is a
village in rural England where there's murder, excessive sex
and anything that can go wrong in society.
That will be in that Village. Good morning and it's time for
my blog. Yes, I haven't been this plugin.
Go on. That they post for peace on the
will, and that spread around the doing the Palm House in
Liverpool. But doing the Crawford house in
Liverpool and but doing one in Smithtown, Road, the post-war
peace. I'm booked into the Liverpool
Fringe Festival in October. I've been asked to help to start
a storytelling Club, sorry, selling shows called the world
Wanderers, and I'm going to the for post-rock tomorrow.
The save got a new setup for gigs.
I'm going to look at the place tomorrow to see if we can book
into there's my plug over. See you, Mike.
We're back. All right, all right.
It was something else that I've been asked to do but just it
never stops as Roger. Probably say and I booked been
booked to play and give posted chance in September, and we're
dedicating. A poet wrote a piece Tree on
September the 21st which is international poetry day and
that's in the Quakers. Peace Garden.
That's going ahead. Luckily John, I'm just back from
the front door that he my wife in.
And is it time for my plug-in? Do you plug the God's sake?
I thought you'd never bloody ask you should say that.
But what I have now I've got a wonderful book.
In fact, they brilliant book accumulation of Historical.
Photographs, and drawings by First drawings on a wonderful
firm called Genesis publishing, its cost a fortune, but it's
worth it, boys. I think you might have a copy of
what you think of it. Thank you Raj, my rest cases.
Listen thank you. Listen, we didn't even get to
talk about Rogers. 56, second version of Longfellows the wreck
of the Hesperus. We'll talk about that.
Roger oh no, we did we never talk about you, you appearing
with Zager and Evans on a television program because I'm
fascinated by Zager in Evans. But listen, I'd like to talk
about my days with the scaffold of our way.
Thank you guys so much. The hasn't saying the scaffold
started 1960s, listen, who's still here, those are the still
here. I'm not, I left 20 minutes ago,
I'm still coming. Alright, thank you so much, you
too and and Roger, he's just left and I really appreciate
your time and all the best with the show on the 29th which I'm
sure will be a strength. Yeah, if it's anything like this
is going to be unbelievable. It will be make the papers I
couldn't. If I were you tired, I couldn't
edit out. Cut out.
One second of that. I've got to tell you the truth.
Okay? Thanks tile.
Thank you listen. It's been fantastic.
Really appreciate it. And so he say in 1962 as a
Liverpool, want that Leg Show.