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I struck out for the far side of
the mango infested swamp. 

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Grab my horn Oil. 
Pull your heckles. 

3
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:09,920
How did you get across the swamp
without getting wet? 

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00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,160
I jumped on that log. 
That log. 

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00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,610
That's an alligator. 
I wonder why my legs come 

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getting shorter. 
Hello and welcome to Goom Pot, 

7
00:00:53,770 --> 00:00:56,930
vying with Oppenheimer and the 
Barbie film for pop cultural 

8
00:00:56,930 --> 00:01:00,050
dominance this week. 
Before I introduce this week's 

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00:01:00,050 --> 00:01:02,330
guest, I just want a quick word 
about last week's show, The 

10
00:01:02,330 --> 00:01:05,050
Treasure in the Tower. 
There was a line in that 

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delivered by Blue Bottle. 
I'll be the man who sees Nobody 

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00:01:07,330 --> 00:01:10,650
touches him for you. 
And I was speculating that that 

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was perhaps the payoff or the 
punch line to a, you know, a 

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mucky joke or something like 
that. 

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But it was pointed out to me by 
no less than three listeners, 

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John Dredge, Phil Cannon and 
Duncan Gray, that actually the 

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line was inspired by a childhood
friend of Sellers. 

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Blue Bottle was a reflection of 
a boy I knew once when I was at 

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kindergarten, getting back a 
long time now. 

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I was 7 years old and I bought a
model in lead of Malcolm 

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Campbell's record-breaking car, 
the Bluebird, and it was the 

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first of the models. 
Even in those days, and it was 

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expensive, where you could lift 
the body off and you could see 

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all the engine in lead. 
Everything was in lead, of 

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course, and the wheels, of 
course, weren't properly shaped.

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They were sort of pressed over 
at the end, you know, so they 

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wouldn't come off. 
And I, you know, this was my 

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pride and joy and I took it to 
school and all the kids were 

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running. 
They're all looking at it, you 

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00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,640
know, and running it on desks 
and things and a little spotty. 

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Herbert came up to me and I 
never got it. 

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And he came out of the crowd, 
you see, jockeying for power. 

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This is what it was, you see? 
And he said to me, can I be the 

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man that sees no one touches it 
for you? 

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No, I never forgot that. 
Because he wanted to give 

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himself he see, go up. 
Is he be a manager? 

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00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:29,620
Then stand back, 'cause I would 
tell you, if you're allowed to 

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touch that, is he? 
Yes, you can do that. 

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00:02:32,980 --> 00:02:35,420
Is he? 
He's then one up now and got 

40
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nearer to it himself, so he 
could touch it whenever he 

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wanted. 
But the others? 

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00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,680
And that was the basic for 
behind Blue Bottle. 

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See, he's a very simple young 
man, is he? 

44
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Yeah, I did. 
I did know that and I kind of 

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that's with so much, it kind of 
just gets pushed into a 

46
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inaccessible section of my 
memory, you know, and it's very 

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difficult for me to access it. 
So thank you to to those chaps 

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00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,720
who pointed that out and set the
record straight. 

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00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,320
So on to this week. 
It's not often that I get people

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00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,080
below the age of 30 on this 
podcast. 

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00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:18,080
It has happened even less likely
that that person is from North 

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America. 
And this week I am joined by the

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00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,320
the writer, comedian Zach 
Mitchell. 

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00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,200
Now Zach is 28 years old and 
lives in Nova Scotia. 

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00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,650
And Zach. 
Contacted me several months ago 

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00:03:34,650 --> 00:03:37,930
and expressed a great love for 
the Goons and for the podcast. 

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00:03:37,930 --> 00:03:41,930
Thank you very much. 
Zach and he and I started a sort

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of a Facebook conversation if 
you like, and I suggested that 

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he might want to come on to the 
show and talk about his love for

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the goons and for comedy in 
general. 

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00:03:52,690 --> 00:03:56,650
Pretty much. 
And he agreed and what follows 

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is our conversation and. 
Zach's a fascinating guy and has

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a lot to say and very thoughtful
character as well. 

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And a lot of what he said sort 
of made me scratch my head and 

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00:04:08,660 --> 00:04:10,860
say, yeah, actually never 
thought of it like that. 

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So anyway, onto the conversation
and obviously I began by asking 

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Zach how he came to discover the
goons. 

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I I discovered the Goon Show 
because my dad told me about 

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00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:26,780
Python And I looked them up on 
YouTube. 

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00:04:27,660 --> 00:04:33,540
And then bought the 16 ton set. 
And I remember reading their 

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Wikipedia article and seeing 
them mention the Goon Show. 

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00:04:38,620 --> 00:04:41,540
And I thought this this sounds 
fascinating. 

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00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:46,460
So I just looked them up and all
of the episodes were on the 

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00:04:46,460 --> 00:04:50,100
Internet Archive. 
So I downloaded them all all at 

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00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:53,020
once. 
And then I went on a vacation. 

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00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,440
And basically that entire 
vacation was spent listening to 

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every Goon show from Series 5 
onwards. 

78
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,000
I yeah, I listened to them all 
basically in one go and in like 

79
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,800
a week. 
So wow. 

80
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,920
OK, so how did so was that in in
chronological order from like 

81
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,280
whistling Spire nigma onwards or
was it just? 

82
00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:21,520
Yeah, well, the first one I 
remember hearing. 

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00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:27,020
Was the secret escatoire with 
that amazing alligator joke. 

84
00:05:27,540 --> 00:05:29,660
That was the joke that hooked 
me. 

85
00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:34,540
Okay, okay. 
So that was the first screen 

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00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:37,100
show you heard and that's very 
strong. 

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00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:39,740
That's quite a strong first 
episode. 

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00:05:39,740 --> 00:05:43,300
So yeah, maybe if it had been a 
weaker episode, really one of 

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00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:45,420
the one of the late. 
Although I know that you want to

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00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:48,650
defend series 8, don't you? 
Yeah. 

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00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:50,930
I do, but if it if it had been 
one, because there have been, 

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there's a few, there's a few 
duds in the Goon Show catalog, 

93
00:05:54,490 --> 00:05:56,250
shall we say, if it had been one
of the weaker ones. 

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00:05:56,250 --> 00:05:59,570
But maybe he might not have been
so hooked so quickly. 

95
00:06:01,050 --> 00:06:06,050
I know, I know. 
I would have like even the junk 

96
00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:09,650
affair, which to me is the 
weakest of Series 8. 

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00:06:10,330 --> 00:06:12,810
It's got, it's got some good 
bits in it. 

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00:06:13,330 --> 00:06:16,930
It's got my client has been 
taken L with head. 

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00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:24,100
And all that. 
So it's in even the weaker 

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00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:27,340
episodes. 
There's like four or five just 

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00:06:27,340 --> 00:06:31,740
brilliant jokes. 
So yeah, I'm pretty sure if I 

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00:06:31,740 --> 00:06:36,580
started off, even with some of 
the low points of season eight 

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00:06:36,860 --> 00:06:42,260
or even season, pardon me, 
Series 8 or Series 10, I still 

104
00:06:42,260 --> 00:06:46,850
would have been hooked, OK? 
Yeah well the as you as you may 

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00:06:46,850 --> 00:06:48,850
have heard cuz I bang on about 
it often. 

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00:06:49,050 --> 00:06:52,810
The 1st going show I ever heard 
was the last last episode from 

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00:06:53,090 --> 00:06:55,370
series 10, The last smoking Z 
Goon. 

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00:06:56,330 --> 00:06:59,810
Oh, that's a great. 
One, yeah, well, IT people, 

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people are a bit tend to be a 
bit down on it. 

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00:07:02,690 --> 00:07:06,490
But you know, I just, I was just
totally enchanted when I first 

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00:07:06,490 --> 00:07:08,490
heard that because I didn't know
what was going on. 

112
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I had and I'm going to ask you 
about this in a minute, but I 

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did have. 
I've never heard the Goon Show 

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00:07:13,790 --> 00:07:16,790
before. 
Obviously I was 13 or 14, but I 

115
00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:21,910
had heard the audio recording of
Bag Jelly, the Witch that Spike 

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00:07:22,670 --> 00:07:26,830
put out in the in the 70s and 
I'd heard that on a regular 

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00:07:26,830 --> 00:07:28,510
basis. 
So I was kind of, that was kind 

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00:07:28,510 --> 00:07:32,150
of like what would you call it, 
a primer in getting into the 

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00:07:32,150 --> 00:07:34,630
goons. 
So when I when I heard the last 

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00:07:34,630 --> 00:07:36,150
I can see going, I didn't know 
what was going on. 

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00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:39,470
I thought that Peter Sellers was
doing all the voices mostly. 

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00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,800
I thought he was doing Wallace 
Greenslade's voice even, but it 

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00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,960
took me a few. 
You know, I had to listen to a 

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00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,200
few episodes. 
I think I I listened to the lost

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00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,200
Emperor and the white box of 
Great Barnfield after that and 

126
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,760
gradually started to sort of 
piece things together and 

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00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,160
started recognizing the the 
different voices and and being 

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00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:00,680
able to ascribe them to the 
different. 

129
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,560
Obviously he could tell which 
voices Seekin did, but the other

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00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,200
two I gradually began to to be 
able to designate who was doing 

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00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,120
what voice. 
So, so I want to ask you, did 

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00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,000
you, although it's very 
anarchic, it is very British in 

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00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,040
many ways. 
The goods did you had you had a 

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00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,240
grounding in British comedy much
kind of that, no? 

135
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:28,320
I've always been a big fan of 
Python And Fawlty Towers and 

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00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:34,280
Dad's Army and even the goodies 
stuff, stuff like that. 

137
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,159
Even though some of it I 
learned. 

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00:08:38,409 --> 00:08:41,370
I learned about after the Goon 
Show, but. 

139
00:08:41,370 --> 00:08:43,010
I'm sorry to laugh. 
Yeah, I'm sorry laughing. 

140
00:08:43,010 --> 00:08:45,690
I'm just thinking. 
You said even the goodies. 

141
00:08:45,730 --> 00:08:48,530
I hope that I hope Graham Garden
and Bilotti are listening. 

142
00:08:52,370 --> 00:08:57,250
Well the interesting thing is 
that Spikes books aren't really 

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00:08:57,250 --> 00:09:01,890
in print in North America. 
I remember I had to order them 

144
00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:09,300
off amazon.co UK which. 
I I think is a shame, especially

145
00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:13,700
for Picoon, which is one of the 
funniest books I've ever read. 

146
00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:20,060
Probably the gold standard in 
written British humor for me is 

147
00:09:20,060 --> 00:09:21,940
PG Woodhouse. 
Oh yeah. 

148
00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:28,980
Cool also isn't in print here, 
but I just think he's 

149
00:09:29,980 --> 00:09:31,780
incredible. 
Who was he? 

150
00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:34,820
So he's telling me PG Woodhouse 
is out of print in in North 

151
00:09:34,820 --> 00:09:37,740
America because. 
Yeah, I'm sure that didn't he go

152
00:09:37,740 --> 00:09:39,220
and live in America at one 
point? 

153
00:09:40,140 --> 00:09:43,220
Doesn't James and Worcester? 
Isn't James and Worcester quite 

154
00:09:43,220 --> 00:09:46,540
popular The. 
Series. 

155
00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:50,580
And I remember when I first 
started collecting Woodhouse 

156
00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:54,460
books, he was in print and easy 
to find in the stores. 

157
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:59,140
But right. 
Yeah, Okay, apparently in the 

158
00:09:59,140 --> 00:10:02,050
last. 
Four or five years he's gone off

159
00:10:02,050 --> 00:10:05,170
the boil, and I'm not exactly 
sure why. 

160
00:10:05,330 --> 00:10:10,850
Yeah, fashions change, and 
people, artists or authors or 

161
00:10:10,850 --> 00:10:13,690
whatever they may be, fall in 
and out of fashion, don't they? 

162
00:10:14,370 --> 00:10:18,490
Sadly, yeah. 
It's like with the big 

163
00:10:18,570 --> 00:10:23,770
controversy with him. 
Maybe it's because I'm Canadian,

164
00:10:23,810 --> 00:10:27,570
but I find the whole thing a bit
ridiculous because. 

165
00:10:28,190 --> 00:10:32,230
So they're changing a few words,
but at least they're still in 

166
00:10:32,390 --> 00:10:36,190
print. 
Yeah, well, you talking about 

167
00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:38,950
the lack some of the language 
when you said the controversy, I

168
00:10:38,950 --> 00:10:40,230
thought you meant cuz wasn't he?
He was. 

169
00:10:40,270 --> 00:10:42,830
He was. 
He had these kind of. 

170
00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:46,710
There were rumors about him and 
the Nazis or at least that he 

171
00:10:46,710 --> 00:10:49,830
was sympathetic perhaps or or 
well. 

172
00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:56,110
If you read the transcripts of 
the broadcasts, they don't seem 

173
00:10:56,150 --> 00:11:01,060
sympathetic at all. 
But he he's just making Jeeves 

174
00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:04,260
and Worcester jokes about the 
Germans. 

175
00:11:04,260 --> 00:11:08,180
It's like he had no idea what 
was going on in the war. 

176
00:11:08,940 --> 00:11:13,020
Yeah. 
Yeah, for me it came more out of

177
00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:16,140
a place of ignorance than 
sympathy. 

178
00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:18,140
Ignorance. 
Yeah, that's that's the word I 

179
00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:20,180
was searching for before. 
Yeah, he was a little bit. 

180
00:11:20,420 --> 00:11:22,460
I won't say he was simple. 
He was just a bit naive. 

181
00:11:22,940 --> 00:11:25,900
Bit naive, yeah, because of 
course he, who was it? 

182
00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:30,390
Roderick spoed. 
Was his Yes this Oswald Mosley 

183
00:11:30,390 --> 00:11:33,110
avatar. 
Yeah. 

184
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:36,750
So you listened to all these 
goon shows in the course of a 

185
00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:38,430
week? 
Yeah. 

186
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:42,750
So, I mean, that must have been.
Did you have any time to do 

187
00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:46,750
anything else? 
Not really, Not really. 

188
00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:52,870
I was just laying there on the 
beach, the second one I heard. 

189
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:59,840
So I heard the Secret Escatoire.
Then the Spanish suitcase, then 

190
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:07,360
the telephone, which may have my
favorite scene in any Goon show.

191
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:14,920
I was a bit surprised to hear 
you repeatedly mentioned Series 

192
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:22,240
5 as the fan favorite series. 
Because I I much prefer Series 7

193
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:28,240
because it strikes this perfect 
balance between earlier goons 

194
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,960
and late goons. 
Some of the later stuff seems to

195
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:41,360
have very little structure or 
order, but Series 7 is like that

196
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,960
perfect midpoint sweet spot. 
At least for me. 

197
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,240
Not well I I'm sure I've said on
here I know that a lot of fans, 

198
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,320
yeah, a lot of game show fans, 
the traditionalists if you like 

199
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,920
hold up Series 5 is is the the 
strongest series and and there's

200
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,360
a lot of great shows. 
But I think I've said on here 

201
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,680
maybe I haven't but I'm sure 
I've said that I I think Series 

202
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:08,120
7 is my favorite as well because
pretty much for the reasons that

203
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,640
you've just given there they've 
they've been let off the leash 

204
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,010
from Peter Eaton. 
But they're still got Pat Dixon,

205
00:13:15,010 --> 00:13:16,770
who's, you know, who's a strong 
producer. 

206
00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:21,050
And they and they haven't yet 
entered the The No Man's Land of

207
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:24,290
Self series 8 with all the 
chopping and changing of 

208
00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:29,290
producers. 
Now here's a question about a 

209
00:13:29,290 --> 00:13:34,210
joke I've always had. 
Maybe it's a series six episode.

210
00:13:34,210 --> 00:13:38,970
I'm not quite sure what series 
or what episode it is. 

211
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:42,630
But there's this joke that's 
always been one of my favorite 

212
00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:47,630
goon show jokes ever. 
But I I have no idea what it's 

213
00:13:47,630 --> 00:13:52,910
in reference to. 
When someone asks Eccles, are 

214
00:13:52,910 --> 00:13:56,270
you the minister who built that 
bridge that fell to bits? 

215
00:13:56,590 --> 00:13:58,870
No. 
Well, it must have been somebody

216
00:13:58,870 --> 00:14:00,710
like you. 
What? 

217
00:14:01,150 --> 00:14:07,190
What is that in reference to? 
Spikes. 

218
00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:11,700
Total disregard for politicians 
and his belief that all 

219
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:14,940
politicians are damn bloody 
fools. 

220
00:14:15,260 --> 00:14:18,340
You know what I mean, But it. 
The the way the audience 

221
00:14:18,340 --> 00:14:23,180
responds to it makes me think 
that something has happened 

222
00:14:23,180 --> 00:14:28,300
around that time, like there was
an actual minister who built a 

223
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:29,700
bridge. 
That felt a bit. 

224
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:32,260
I always see what you're saying.
Yeah, well, what I was trying to

225
00:14:32,260 --> 00:14:35,980
say was that Echoes is obviously
held up as an idiot. 

226
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,960
And so that was basically 
indicating that all politicians 

227
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,720
are idiots. 
But yeah, I see what you're 

228
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,160
saying in terms of was, is there
some topical, is it a topical 

229
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,440
reference? 
Is something, did something 

230
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:46,680
happen? 
I'm not sure. 

231
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,120
I'm not even sure of which show 
that is actually. 

232
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,920
So whenever we get to that, I'll
I'll hopefully by that point I 

233
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,680
will have, I will have that 
information and and be able to 

234
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,750
share it. 
So something I have to say about

235
00:14:59,750 --> 00:15:04,230
Spike and Larry and just his 
whole dynamic with Michael 

236
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:10,190
Benteen, because I've worked 
writing what are primarily my 

237
00:15:10,190 --> 00:15:17,470
scripts with other people. 
I remember when I was 16, I I 

238
00:15:17,470 --> 00:15:23,230
made this comedy film with other
people, you know, contributing 

239
00:15:23,230 --> 00:15:26,920
to the script. 
And I can look at that film now 

240
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,120
and be like, oh, these were all 
my jokes. 

241
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,920
But I would never say that the 
other people who wrote with me 

242
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,480
didn't have anything to do with 
it. 

243
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:45,040
I've also needed kind of in an 
interpreter for my ideas. 

244
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,440
Because they can get so off the 
chain at times that I'll lose 

245
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,640
perspective and just move too 
fast. 

246
00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:03,240
And having some person just be 
able to type for you is a really

247
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:09,880
important component of writing. 
So for someone to say, oh, he 

248
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,080
was just typing, I think that 
that. 

249
00:16:14,990 --> 00:16:20,230
The Vince's a fundamental 
misunderstanding of the writing 

250
00:16:20,230 --> 00:16:26,270
process, and that's at best, but
I think he was just being 

251
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:30,950
willfully disingenuous when he 
said things like that. 

252
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:33,870
Totally. 
And I think we have you. 

253
00:16:33,870 --> 00:16:35,830
I'm sure you've read, Have you 
read Julie Warren's book about 

254
00:16:35,830 --> 00:16:38,990
Larry Stevens? 
No, but I'm getting it. 

255
00:16:39,950 --> 00:16:44,990
I just heard about it, Okay, 
because it was in. 

256
00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:48,790
Yeah, it was in one of your 
episodes and one of the Goon 

257
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:51,830
Show newsletters I got a couple 
months ago. 

258
00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:57,550
Yeah. 
So Julie's obviously related to 

259
00:16:58,950 --> 00:16:59,670
Larry. 
Yeah. 

260
00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:03,390
And she wrote this wonderful 
biography, which didn't just 

261
00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:06,339
look at his. 
Goon Show writing, It was his, 

262
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:08,740
you know, his early life is his 
other writing. 

263
00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:11,180
You know, he did a lot with Tony
Hancock in the early days. 

264
00:17:11,540 --> 00:17:13,540
They were, they were very good 
friends at that. 

265
00:17:13,579 --> 00:17:16,180
I think he was. 
He was Hancock's best man at his

266
00:17:16,180 --> 00:17:23,740
first wedding and he also wrote 
the Army game for for ITV 

267
00:17:23,740 --> 00:17:26,700
television. 
And he, you know, he wrote a lot

268
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:31,900
and and there's a lot in the 
Goon Show that we owe to Larry. 

269
00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:36,940
A couple of weeks ago we covered
the episode The Treasure in the 

270
00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:39,140
Tower. 
You won't have heard that yet 

271
00:17:39,140 --> 00:17:41,380
because it's not gone out. 
Oh, that's a fantastic. 

272
00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:48,100
One yeah, but so we covered that
episode and it was out that 

273
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:51,860
episode that was that episode 
had the debut of the of the the 

274
00:17:51,860 --> 00:17:53,540
catch phrase. 
It's all in the mind, you know 

275
00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:58,060
which was coined by Larry or at 
least Larry bought that to the 

276
00:17:58,060 --> 00:18:01,710
goons. 
Because that was a phrase that 

277
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:05,710
when he was a commando during 
the war, that was a phrase that 

278
00:18:05,710 --> 00:18:10,350
the Sergeant major would often 
shout at the men. 

279
00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:15,870
That's that's fascinating. 
So it like ties back into the 

280
00:18:15,870 --> 00:18:21,870
themes of like wartime trauma 
that kind of motivated The Goon 

281
00:18:21,870 --> 00:18:24,870
Show to begin with. 
But that's that's amazing. 

282
00:18:26,060 --> 00:18:29,300
Something I wanted to bring up 
about catch phrases. 

283
00:18:30,540 --> 00:18:36,300
Spike had a lot of catch phrases
that didn't seem like catch 

284
00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:40,780
phrases, but things that he 
would obsessively repeat for one

285
00:18:40,780 --> 00:18:46,260
episode and completely dropped. 
Yeah, and I I know it's not just

286
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:51,090
Spike because. 
The white neti trade, which he 

287
00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:54,770
had nothing to do with, uses 
that too. 

288
00:18:54,770 --> 00:18:58,610
I think like, you know that 
that's a horse of a different 

289
00:18:58,610 --> 00:19:05,250
color or on this magic Lantern 
slide or it says here in small 

290
00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:08,690
print, yes, that, that kind of 
thing. 

291
00:19:08,890 --> 00:19:11,330
What happened to the I'm 
wondering if the crispy bacon we

292
00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:13,770
had before the war. 
What's become of that crispy 

293
00:19:13,770 --> 00:19:19,940
bacon we had before the war? 
Yes, but that that's more of a 

294
00:19:19,940 --> 00:19:23,660
joke. 
Like some of these repeated 

295
00:19:23,660 --> 00:19:29,020
phrases were like half jokes 
that seemed to he seemed to want

296
00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:35,580
to add to the texture of of the 
script by just firing so many 

297
00:19:35,580 --> 00:19:39,780
things at us that we didn't know
what to laugh at or what was 

298
00:19:40,020 --> 00:19:43,820
funny. 
I almost feel like he was like. 

299
00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:49,530
He was intentionally doing these
half jokes and I'm I'm not sure 

300
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:54,330
why. 
Just, just just to pad out the 

301
00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:57,410
script maybe, I don't know. 
Maybe that's a bit cynical to 

302
00:19:57,890 --> 00:20:03,090
suggest that, but I guess it's 
he said he was a jazz man, 

303
00:20:03,090 --> 00:20:04,850
wasn't he? 
And it's it's kind of it's kind 

304
00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:08,090
of, I suppose you could say it's
almost it. 

305
00:20:08,290 --> 00:20:11,410
It imbus within the goon show a 
certain amount of certain type 

306
00:20:11,410 --> 00:20:14,210
of rhythm. 
If you have these repetitive 

307
00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:18,210
tropes, lines, quotes, 
catchphrases, whatever you want 

308
00:20:18,210 --> 00:20:24,770
to call them, I want to ask you 
because before we because when 

309
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:30,130
we were first in contact many 
months ago, and you had a list 

310
00:20:30,130 --> 00:20:33,250
of things that you wanted to 
talk about, one of the things 

311
00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:36,570
you wrote was that you want to 
discuss why knees are inherently

312
00:20:36,570 --> 00:20:38,450
funny. 
Yes. 

313
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:41,830
Come on. 
I have never heard of anyone 

314
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:44,910
having a knee fetish except for 
Spike Milligan. 

315
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:51,310
Ever. 
I, I it's it's just it. 

316
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:58,510
It's the most bizarre item of 
the body to be fixated on, and 

317
00:20:58,510 --> 00:21:02,550
the fact that he keeps going 
back to it makes it funnier and 

318
00:21:02,550 --> 00:21:07,230
funnier. 
Like it it he seems to have an 

319
00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:13,470
obsession with certain things. 
Knees and and people, people 

320
00:21:13,470 --> 00:21:17,070
struggling to get into doors. 
Yes. 

321
00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:24,550
But my favorite door scene of 
all time, as well as my favorite

322
00:21:24,790 --> 00:21:28,110
echoes and blue bottle scene of 
all time actually in the same 

323
00:21:28,110 --> 00:21:34,150
episode, The Dreadful Revenge of
Fred Fu Manchu, which I was 

324
00:21:34,150 --> 00:21:38,020
initially going. 
To talk about, but given this is

325
00:21:39,380 --> 00:21:43,700
given this is only my second 
appearance on a podcast, I 

326
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:45,340
didn't want it to blow up into 
my. 

327
00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:46,940
Face Yeah, it could have been 
your last one. 

328
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:53,940
Yeah, but yeah, that Minnie and 
Henry doorbet. 

329
00:21:56,340 --> 00:21:56,660
Wow. 
Who's that? 

330
00:21:57,460 --> 00:22:01,940
It's me, Henry. 
There's a man called me at the 

331
00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:06,740
door. 
Me. 

332
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:10,020
You'll have to prove it. 
You at there. 

333
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:16,620
Yes, prove your me alright. 
I'm Henry Cron. 

334
00:22:16,620 --> 00:22:17,620
That's me. 
Minnie. 

335
00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:24,540
Yeah. 
Min. 

336
00:22:24,980 --> 00:22:28,860
Open the door and let him in. 
But you are in him. 

337
00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:32,130
Well, you'll have to let me act 
again. 

338
00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:35,970
Hi. 
Because I'm out there waiting to

339
00:22:35,970 --> 00:22:38,210
come in. 
Oh, very well. 

340
00:22:40,690 --> 00:22:44,410
Thank you. 
Now, there, Mr. Crum, I want to 

341
00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:47,090
warn you that here, here's that 
out there. 

342
00:22:47,090 --> 00:22:52,530
It's me. 
Lock me out. 

343
00:22:53,610 --> 00:22:56,820
Nonsense. 
Me just came in. 

344
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:03,420
He's here now. 
Good heavens. 

345
00:23:03,460 --> 00:23:04,900
Quick. 
That's the woman I'm here to 

346
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,380
protect Over the door. 
Very well, Very well. 

347
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:11,580
But I must let Minnie in first. 
Thank you. 

348
00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:15,860
That's all right, Min. 
Now then, dear, What were you? 

349
00:23:20,460 --> 00:23:22,020
Who's there? 
It's me. 

350
00:23:24,020 --> 00:23:28,100
It's probably my own personal 
favorite June show episodes. 

351
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:30,940
And it's not. 
Yeah, it's not. 

352
00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:37,700
I I have to stress, it's not 
because of the racism at all, 

353
00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:43,900
but I feel like it gets closer 
to the heart of what you and 

354
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:48,820
Roger were talking about in your
China Story episode where Spike 

355
00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:52,620
said. 
Spike said that he was trying to

356
00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:58,020
make fun of the cliche racism 
that he had been taught as a 

357
00:23:58,020 --> 00:24:02,260
child and that it, you know, 
flourished during the war. 

358
00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:06,660
He was trying to make his 
caricatures so extreme that we 

359
00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:11,900
would recognize they were 
caricatures of caricatures and 

360
00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:16,420
the the way Fu Manchu is treated
in that show. 

361
00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:21,940
While still incredibly 
problematic and not something I 

362
00:24:22,620 --> 00:24:28,660
would defend exactly, seems to 
be his most successful 

363
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:33,260
employment of that concept in a 
way that the audience can 

364
00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:37,140
actually understand. 
I mean Spike. 

365
00:24:37,580 --> 00:24:40,770
Spike wasn't very subtle. 
I wouldn't. 

366
00:24:40,810 --> 00:24:45,410
I wouldn't use the word subtle 
to describe his humor, but the 

367
00:24:45,410 --> 00:24:49,930
interesting thing about the 
China story is that little the 

368
00:24:49,930 --> 00:24:53,890
critics thing. 
Yes, at the end of the season 

369
00:24:53,890 --> 00:24:58,930
five Compendium where one of 
them seems to get it seems to 

370
00:24:58,930 --> 00:25:05,610
say I love the Chinese noises in
The China Story last night and 

371
00:25:05,610 --> 00:25:08,330
how wonderfully on Chinese they 
were. 

372
00:25:09,730 --> 00:25:16,650
So if if that is taken kind of 
as a sample of the way that the 

373
00:25:16,730 --> 00:25:22,770
audience viewed the show at the 
time, then maybe Milligan was 

374
00:25:22,770 --> 00:25:26,290
successful. 
But it's it's such a slippery 

375
00:25:26,290 --> 00:25:31,650
slope and such a difficult 
concept to execute successfully 

376
00:25:31,650 --> 00:25:34,450
that I'm I'm not sure he ever 
did it. 

377
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:40,250
I remember seeing. 
Spike doing blackface in one of 

378
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:46,810
the later Q series. 
I I I think it was like the 80s 

379
00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:52,490
and I couldn't believe it 
because it like North America 

380
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:58,530
was still racist in the 80s. 
But like you you could you could

381
00:25:58,530 --> 00:26:02,130
never get away with a thing like
that over here in the 80s. 

382
00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:04,580
Oh, and look at me. 
Yeah, there was, there was 

383
00:26:04,580 --> 00:26:08,660
plenty of comedies in the 80s 
that still had, there was still 

384
00:26:08,660 --> 00:26:11,380
racist language and there was 
even, you know, even things like

385
00:26:11,460 --> 00:26:15,700
even supposedly right on 
comedies like the young ones, 

386
00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:18,540
there was some questionable 
language used and. 

387
00:26:19,420 --> 00:26:21,740
I do love the young, the young 
ones. 

388
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:26,100
That's a great show, but like 
any great show, it has massive 

389
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,900
flaws. 
What's its biggest flaw, do you 

390
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:35,730
think? 
I think just well that of 

391
00:26:35,730 --> 00:26:40,290
course, and sometimes the 
performance style for me is 

392
00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:46,530
almost too aggressive and it can
sometimes take away from the 

393
00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:49,370
brilliance of the joke writing, 
at least to me. 

394
00:26:49,770 --> 00:26:54,930
But I understand that's a stupid
complaint because it's like 

395
00:26:54,930 --> 00:26:58,010
complaining that The Goon Show 
is too silly. 

396
00:27:00,270 --> 00:27:04,510
It it totally misses the point, 
but I I guess it's a matter of 

397
00:27:04,510 --> 00:27:08,190
personal preference. 
Just back up, just stick with 

398
00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:11,830
the young ones for a moment. 
Did, did Rick May, I mean, Rick 

399
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:15,390
Mayo never made it in, certainly
not in the United States nor in 

400
00:27:15,390 --> 00:27:17,230
Canada. 
I guess Rick, Rick Mayo never 

401
00:27:17,230 --> 00:27:19,590
really cut through. 
Why do you think that is? 

402
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:26,830
Well, the young ones has always 
had a very checkered awful. 

403
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:34,480
DVD and VHS release history to 
the point where you know you can

404
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:40,720
only get Region 2 DVD's of it. 
So a lot of people over here 

405
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,480
have no idea what The Young Ones
is now. 

406
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:55,040
One of my favorite American 
sitcoms of all time, Get a Life 

407
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,680
was. 
Described as an attempt to do an

408
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:06,760
American Young Ones, to the 
point where there's a bit in one

409
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,720
episode where they rip off a 
character's head and kick it 

410
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,080
around like a football. 
OK. 

411
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,800
Like in Bambi? 
Yes, like in Bambi. 

412
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,960
Wow. 
Here's the label from that 

413
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,440
accursed seafood that started it
all. 

414
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,640
Take that. 
What's this? 

415
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,280
A warning about? 
The warning? 

416
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:30,070
As stated in the first warning, 
those who eat this rancid fish 

417
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:33,190
will develop amnesia. 
However, it will wear off all by

418
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:35,630
itself. 
Well, that's a relief. 

419
00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:37,670
What's this? 
PS:. 

420
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:40,430
But they will remember 
everything that happened, so 

421
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:43,870
don't mistreat them or make them
do any goofy crap or they may 

422
00:28:43,870 --> 00:28:47,350
rip your head off. 
Hi guys. 

423
00:28:48,030 --> 00:28:51,950
Done dancing so soon, what do 
you you doing something with the

424
00:28:51,950 --> 00:28:55,030
hen there and you're gonna 
you're gonna do it. 

425
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:05,670
I I seem to remember this might 
be a false memory. 

426
00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:09,670
We're probably talking 12 years 
ago, probably when you first 

427
00:29:09,670 --> 00:29:14,270
heard the games I saw on YouTube
or similar. 

428
00:29:15,790 --> 00:29:19,920
A really bad. 
Pilot episode for an American 

429
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,400
version of the Young Ones and I 
think I would it had Nigel 

430
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,640
Planer in it. 
Yes, I would. 

431
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:34,600
I would love to track that down 
because that was done, I think, 

432
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,400
by David Merkin, who show ran 
the seasons 5 and six of Yeah, 

433
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,400
he show ran my personal favorite
seasons of The Simpsons, which 

434
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,060
is. 
Right up there with the Goon 

435
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,940
Show as one of my favorite 
pieces of media every. 

436
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:53,460
Night Which is your favorite 
Simpsons episode? 

437
00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:57,780
Can you pin it down? 
Runs air, actually. 

438
00:29:57,860 --> 00:30:02,340
One that's a good just the. 
He card read. 

439
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:03,940
Good. 
Yeah, that's great. 

440
00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:05,940
Kills me do. 
You know what? 

441
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:09,100
I love my favorite episode. 
And people always say, well, 

442
00:30:09,580 --> 00:30:10,300
what? 
That's a weird. 

443
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000
I think it's a weird episode to 
have as your favorite episode. 

444
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Mine will always be, and I think
it might be series 6. 

445
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:23,080
Sorry season 6 and Maggie makes 
3. 

446
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,240
That's a fantastic. 
Episode. 

447
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,880
And I'm not particularly a fan 
of Maggie. 

448
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,800
Or not that I'm dislike Maggie, 
but I just love the subplot of 

449
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,280
Homer working at the bowling 
alley. 

450
00:30:35,980 --> 00:30:39,460
And and and you might be able to
help me here you you might be 

451
00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:42,380
able to help me because over 
here there's a bit there's a 

452
00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:46,620
there's a there's one little 
tiny little throwaway line in 

453
00:30:46,620 --> 00:30:49,700
that episode which always floors
me, kills me. 

454
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:52,260
Right. 
And it's it's Homer's being 

455
00:30:52,260 --> 00:30:56,020
forced to leave his job he has 
to quit his job because you know

456
00:30:57,540 --> 00:31:00,660
and and but everyone's sorry to 
see him go and they give him 

457
00:31:00,660 --> 00:31:03,900
this jacket and and they were 
all sort of saying bye Homer. 

458
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:07,710
And then there's this little boy
like a little 9030 shoe shine 

459
00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:09,190
boy. 
And. 

460
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:12,350
And Homer says what he said 
Don't worry Joey, we'll get to 

461
00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:14,710
California one day. 
And then he goes. 

462
00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:17,230
Sure we will, Mr. Homer, sure we
will. 

463
00:31:17,270 --> 00:31:20,110
Then he goes. 
And I just. 

464
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:23,790
And I know why that's funny. 
But I can't explain to people 

465
00:31:23,790 --> 00:31:26,830
why that is funny. 
I just know it's it's parodying.

466
00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:30,190
It's parodying those. 
Sort of films, I suppose, Like 

467
00:31:30,190 --> 00:31:32,350
The Grapes of Wrath and things. 
Like that, Yes. 

468
00:31:32,350 --> 00:31:36,350
Yes. 
Yeah, that's what I would say to

469
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:37,190
that. 
Yeah. 

470
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:41,910
It's. 
But it's so weirdly specific and

471
00:31:41,910 --> 00:31:49,550
generic at the same time that I 
definitely understand why you 

472
00:31:49,550 --> 00:31:53,790
would think that there was some 
cultural context behind it. 

473
00:31:55,150 --> 00:31:57,330
Back to the goons. 
So you. 

474
00:31:57,850 --> 00:32:00,970
Right. 
So you wanna make a defense of 

475
00:32:01,050 --> 00:32:02,570
series eight? 
Yeah. 

476
00:32:03,850 --> 00:32:10,450
Yeah, I I think I like almost 
every single episode in series 

477
00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:14,370
8. 
The only one I don't like is the

478
00:32:14,370 --> 00:32:21,050
Junk affair, because that blood 
knock and sea goon bone bit goes

479
00:32:21,050 --> 00:32:25,250
on way too long and there's no 
punch line at all. 

480
00:32:25,370 --> 00:32:30,220
And. 
Despite the my client has been 

481
00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:38,020
taken ill with head, but that 
the Seagun blood knock that 

482
00:32:38,020 --> 00:32:40,900
totally destroys the episode for
me. 

483
00:32:41,420 --> 00:32:49,260
There's one in series 5 that I 
just hate, OK And that's it. 

484
00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:54,100
It's just because I recognize 
it's a good episode and it. 

485
00:32:54,490 --> 00:33:00,530
It's a funny episode, but in 
Forog, which weirdly enough, I 

486
00:33:00,530 --> 00:33:07,050
think was an arrogant script. 
But when I listened to Forog and

487
00:33:07,330 --> 00:33:12,010
before I knew that, I thought 
that it was Milligan kind of 

488
00:33:12,410 --> 00:33:16,890
looking into the face of his 
depression and, you know, sense 

489
00:33:16,890 --> 00:33:22,890
of identity loss and it it 
actually reminds me of. 

490
00:33:23,550 --> 00:33:29,150
That Small Dreams of a Scorpion 
poetry book that he had. 

491
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:36,990
And it's it's just so 
depressing, particularly because

492
00:33:37,510 --> 00:33:44,310
I really struggle with mental 
health issues myself. 

493
00:33:44,390 --> 00:33:50,150
And that's one of the reasons 
Milligan's one of my personal 

494
00:33:50,150 --> 00:33:54,700
heroes because. 
It was insanely productive while

495
00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:59,740
battling, you know, similar 
things. 

496
00:33:59,780 --> 00:34:06,020
I'm not gonna go into detail, 
obviously, but yeah, that 

497
00:34:06,020 --> 00:34:09,980
episode just puts me in a real 
bad psychic place. 

498
00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:13,100
Even though it's it's got great 
jokes in it. 

499
00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:17,580
It's it's one of the most 
depressing things I've ever 

500
00:34:17,580 --> 00:34:22,500
heard. 
Yeah, I have no idea why but but

501
00:34:22,860 --> 00:34:28,500
but that that ending you know 
where Seagun realizes not only 

502
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:33,340
does Full Rog not exist, but he 
doesn't exist and it just ends 

503
00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:37,139
with him crying. 
Yeah, that whole that whole 

504
00:34:37,139 --> 00:34:40,260
ending just seems like a cry of 
pain. 

505
00:34:40,540 --> 00:34:44,179
Now Seagun LED, have you placed 
all the bricks in the right 

506
00:34:44,179 --> 00:34:47,900
holes and the right squares? 
Stop this nonsense. 

507
00:34:48,909 --> 00:34:51,350
No, it's a mess with you all. 
I demand to see the authorities.

508
00:34:51,350 --> 00:34:54,110
Of course you will be able to 
see them in a short while. 

509
00:34:54,469 --> 00:34:56,230
They are collecting evidence at 
the minute. 

510
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:58,630
I don't understand what this is 
all about. 

511
00:34:58,870 --> 00:35:01,470
Good morning, Doctor Mariati. 
And good morning to you, Doctor 

512
00:35:01,470 --> 00:35:04,990
Eidelberger. 
And this year is little Ned 

513
00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:07,910
Segone. 
Dr. Doctor, have they examined 

514
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:08,910
the frog? 
They have. 

515
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:11,190
It's turned out to be fog. 
It's not. 

516
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:13,180
It's not I tell you. 
It's it's for log. 

517
00:35:13,220 --> 00:35:14,380
Yes, yes. 
Yes, yes, yes. 

518
00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:15,660
Take it easy. 
Did you find make your blood 

519
00:35:15,820 --> 00:35:16,100
log? 
Yes. 

520
00:35:16,100 --> 00:35:18,460
We have checked with the ward 
office records and find there is

521
00:35:18,460 --> 00:35:19,940
no such man of that name ever 
existed. 

522
00:35:23,380 --> 00:35:25,660
Go to my government sponsored 
laboratory and you'll see his 

523
00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:27,100
name in the visitor's book. 
Yes, yes. 

524
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:28,540
We've checked with that address 
you gave us. 

525
00:35:28,540 --> 00:35:29,940
But there is no laboratory 
there. 

526
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:36,340
It is an old bond site. 
Honestly, there is an 

527
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:38,340
laboratory. 
There must be a laboratory. 

528
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:42,630
As true as my name is Ned Segal.
Ah, that's another point. 

529
00:35:44,670 --> 00:35:46,870
There is no such person as Ned 
Segal. 

530
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:53,430
I just put this little square. 
OK, I'm gonna ask a few obvious 

531
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:55,470
questions, all right. 
OK. 

532
00:35:56,190 --> 00:36:00,830
Which is your favorite show? 
My favorite goon show, as I 

533
00:36:00,830 --> 00:36:05,150
said, was the dreadful revenge 
of shreds men too. 

534
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:06,950
She did. 
All right, ignore that question.

535
00:36:07,150 --> 00:36:08,880
Sorry. 
That is your favorite show. 

536
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:09,920
Well, I'll tell you what you 
can. 

537
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,960
Yeah, if you like, cuz I'm 
scheduled up to the end of this 

538
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,400
year, but next year you could 
come and talk about that show 

539
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,080
that. 
Would be great, but there's and 

540
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:26,800
like anyone who's listening to 
this podcast, anyone who may 

541
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:33,240
have heard it from me spreading 
this podcast around as I will, 

542
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,630
do not listen to. 
The Dreadful Revenge of Fred Fu 

543
00:36:37,630 --> 00:36:59,310
Manchu is your first Goon show. 
Barn 0345. 

544
00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:07,410
Rick cut and difficult. 
Here. 

545
00:37:12,690 --> 00:37:24,810
A good dog boy went to college. 
What comes up the seven? 

546
00:37:30,850 --> 00:37:33,570
I said. 
What comes up the seven? 

547
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:50,860
OK, I'll come over. 
Bring that pretty diamond over 

548
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:51,940
here. 
Can be. 

549
00:37:52,980 --> 00:38:02,940
I'll come over to you. 
Well, I want to know. 

550
00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:16,220
Blue Bono, Blue Bono. 
What's disgusted on the wall? 

551
00:38:25,180 --> 00:38:28,100
So what about which which 
characters appeal to you the 

552
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:30,660
most, and which characters 
appeal to you the least of the 

553
00:38:30,660 --> 00:38:32,300
goons? 
Well. 

554
00:38:33,770 --> 00:38:38,610
This is gonna be, this is gonna 
be a controversial opinion here.

555
00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:42,770
I love Echols. 
Echols is my favorite character 

556
00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:45,530
by far. 
I think Echols is my favorite 

557
00:38:45,530 --> 00:38:51,010
character in like all of media. 
And don't get me wrong, there 

558
00:38:51,010 --> 00:38:55,170
are some really, really, really 
funny blue bottle bits, but I 

559
00:38:55,170 --> 00:38:59,890
feel like too many of them fall 
into formula and. 

560
00:39:01,850 --> 00:39:07,490
Just repetition of jokes. 
And sometimes they slow the show

561
00:39:07,490 --> 00:39:12,250
down for me, even when I find 
Blue Bottle really funny. 

562
00:39:12,490 --> 00:39:15,130
So Blue Bottle's my least 
favorite character. 

563
00:39:16,330 --> 00:39:20,930
Now that that may have something
to do with the fact that my my 

564
00:39:20,930 --> 00:39:24,850
dad refuses to listen to the 
show with me because he finds 

565
00:39:24,850 --> 00:39:32,720
Blue Bottle so irritating. 
I feel like Series 5 Blue Bottle

566
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:37,000
is the best blue bottle because 
that's when he actually sounded 

567
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,400
like a little kid. 
For some reason, Sellers 

568
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,160
sometimes seems to put less 
energy into his line reading 

569
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,080
sometimes when we get to like 
say, series. 

570
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:49,680
Nine. 
Yeah. 

571
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,480
No, absolutely. 
The the Blue Bottle voice 

572
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:58,080
changes and I I just missed the 
series 5 blue Bottle. 

573
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,000
The Kinge of the Judge school? 
Yeah, that kind of thing. 

574
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,960
What about the music? 
What do you think of the music? 

575
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,560
I love Max Gildray. 
I love Max Gildray. 

576
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:16,880
Okay. 
I okay. 

577
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:23,360
This is gonna sound weird and 
incredibly nitpicky, but I have 

578
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:30,480
OCD the way that Ray Ellington. 
Sometimes pronounces I like 

579
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,200
he'll make R sounds. 
Yeah, like I love you like like 

580
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,920
that for for example. 
And the repeated R sounds when 

581
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,800
there should be no R sounds in 
the word it. 

582
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:51,120
It just irritates me. 
I have no idea why, and it's 

583
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,960
definitely not a knock on him as
a singer. 

584
00:40:54,430 --> 00:40:58,870
But but it's just a continued 
trait that I find a little 

585
00:40:58,910 --> 00:41:03,830
irritating now. 
I love jazz. 

586
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:09,870
I am a huge jazz fan, have been 
ever since I was a little kid 

587
00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:15,350
actually. 
But I've always preferred 

588
00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:21,120
instrumental jazz to. 
Vocal jazz. 

589
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,120
So maybe that's why I prefer 
Galdrey. 

590
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:28,920
There's just something about the
improvised nature of 

591
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,840
instrumental jazz that really 
gets me. 

592
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,920
And I feel like you can hear 
more improv in Geldrey than 

593
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,760
Ellington. 
Although Ellington does have 

594
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,760
Dicky cats. 
Who's a good enough pianist to 

595
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,040
swing with any of the American 
bands or groups, so. 

596
00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:53,260
Sometimes raise some, some are 
raised numbers can be a bit 

597
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:58,860
cute, if you know what I mean. 
A bit, a bit twee. 

598
00:41:59,260 --> 00:42:02,340
A bit. 
Dare I say a bit embarrassing. 

599
00:42:02,340 --> 00:42:06,140
So you know, like when he gets, 
when he gets the band barking 

600
00:42:06,140 --> 00:42:10,500
and stuff like that or doing. 
I mean there's an episode. 

601
00:42:10,780 --> 00:42:12,540
Which one was it? 
It was The Treasure in the Tower

602
00:42:12,540 --> 00:42:15,980
again where right at the 
beginning Ray's doing it. 

603
00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:18,940
Some some rather dubious Chinese
impressions. 

604
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:25,390
As well, things like that, yeah.
Well, like he OK, here's the 

605
00:42:25,390 --> 00:42:33,350
thing, like, I see comments 
underneath Spikes videos and 

606
00:42:33,350 --> 00:42:40,070
maybe this is just my modern 
perspective of Spike, but like 

607
00:42:40,750 --> 00:42:44,550
these performers didn't mind. 
Ray Ellington didn't say 

608
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:48,430
anything, you know? 
Harry Seacombe laughed at the 

609
00:42:48,750 --> 00:42:53,470
overweight jokes, which I must 
admit, I I laugh at too, because

610
00:42:53,830 --> 00:43:00,230
because, like I said, they're so
ridiculous that it's it isn't 

611
00:43:00,230 --> 00:43:02,630
like they're being aimed at one 
person. 

612
00:43:02,630 --> 00:43:07,030
It's like the concept itself, 
this being joked with. 

613
00:43:07,030 --> 00:43:11,110
Like I heard they had to send up
a rocket to photograph the other

614
00:43:11,110 --> 00:43:12,350
side of you. 
You. 

615
00:43:12,350 --> 00:43:13,390
Know. 
Yeah. 

616
00:43:13,390 --> 00:43:15,910
And that continues. 
More or less to this day. 

617
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:18,990
If you look at The Simpsons 
again, what do they say about 

618
00:43:18,990 --> 00:43:22,150
Homer? 
His ass has got its own post 

619
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:23,710
code. 
Something like that. 

620
00:43:24,270 --> 00:43:32,150
Yeah, but recently there's been 
within the last decade there's 

621
00:43:32,190 --> 00:43:38,310
been a real back down on what is
called fat shaming and those 

622
00:43:38,310 --> 00:43:42,520
kind of jokes have. 
Disappeared in most modern 

623
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,960
sitcoms. 
I don't watch Modern Simpsons 

624
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,600
anymore. 
I've kind of gave up. 

625
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,040
So is it worth? 
I gave up. 

626
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Is it worth pursuing? 
No, no. 

627
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,200
The last season was one of their
best in a while. 

628
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,360
They got a new showrunner, Thank
God. 

629
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,920
Matt. 
Matt Selman who had been Co show

630
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:13,310
running the. 
Last three seasons took over a 

631
00:44:13,310 --> 00:44:17,790
show running role from Al Jean, 
who would have been sucking the 

632
00:44:17,790 --> 00:44:21,110
life out of the series for 
longer than the series was ever 

633
00:44:21,110 --> 00:44:28,510
good, and it's just they're 
doing more conceptual episodes. 

634
00:44:28,830 --> 00:44:33,360
There was one where. 
Someone hacked into Fox's 

635
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:38,400
computer and was showing the 
most ridiculous Simpson plot 

636
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,800
lines that were really going to 
anger the fans and destroy The 

637
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:48,160
Simpsons. 
So it was just this absurdist 

638
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:56,280
series where like Martin becomes
a chain smoking adult who's 

639
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,680
disguised in a kids body. 
You know that that kind of 

640
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,360
thing. 
So they're really, they're 

641
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,360
really experimenting more again.
Isn't that? 

642
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,120
Isn't the danger there of 
becoming too self referential to

643
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,240
matter to self indulgent? 
Well. 

644
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,640
That's something that has been 
baked into the show for so long 

645
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:25,560
that you know when you I I 
honestly think the series should

646
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,360
have ended with Behind the 
Laughter. 

647
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:31,080
I'm inclined to agree with you, 
yeah. 

648
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,200
Can we return to the goons for a
SEC? 

649
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,440
Cuz I had a point that I didn't 
clearly articulate. 

650
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,120
Go go, please do. 
But when when people say that, 

651
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:47,240
you know, Ray Ellington didn't 
mind or Harry Seacombe didn't 

652
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:54,760
mind or just things like that, 
if if Ray Ellington did mind, 

653
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,280
you know what were the 
consequences? 

654
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,040
Of his career in life. 
How would have they turned out 

655
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,800
if he actually didn't speak up? 
So, you know, there's a general 

656
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:15,640
sense to a lot of these comments
I read and hear about, you know,

657
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,240
oh, this stuff never hurt anyone
or, you know, I I laughed the 

658
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:24,520
hardest at this joke and I'm 
filling ethnicity. 

659
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,160
Of course you do. 
But the laughter is tinged with 

660
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,080
pain and then you know it 
perpet. 

661
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:39,440
It perpetuates itself in future 
dealings with other people. 

662
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,120
It, you know, can harm 
self-image. 

663
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:50,000
It's just really I I just don't 
think that people understand 

664
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,280
what that kind of humor can do 
to a person. 

665
00:46:53,780 --> 00:47:00,220
Even if you do find it funny, 
the really big offender to me is

666
00:47:00,220 --> 00:47:06,060
all that stuff about Max 
Geldrey's nose, right the the 

667
00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:11,260
intros. 
When we come into Series 9, the 

668
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:16,380
intros to Max become incredibly 
lazy. 

669
00:47:16,740 --> 00:47:21,780
You know you go, from here comes
Max Geldrey to play his hot 

670
00:47:21,780 --> 00:47:25,350
underwear to. 
The nose, oh, my nose. 

671
00:47:25,710 --> 00:47:29,510
Oh my conch is still getting the
brakes over and over again and 

672
00:47:29,510 --> 00:47:34,310
every show like, yeah, And it it
begins to like it. 

673
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:39,110
It is literal objectification, 
like there's this character and 

674
00:47:39,790 --> 00:47:43,670
hard times by Charles Dickens 
who everybody keeps on referring

675
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:46,990
to his hands because that's 
that's the only part of his body

676
00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:49,990
that can work and that's the 
only part of his body that 

677
00:47:50,430 --> 00:47:53,760
matters, so. 
He's just been boiled down to 

678
00:47:53,760 --> 00:48:00,960
his hands and you know, Max with
his nose and I feel like Spike 

679
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,880
fought the Nazis. 
Spike, you know, Spike was one 

680
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,760
of the good guys, hopefully. 
And why? 

681
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:15,120
Why didn't he realize, you know,
what he had been fighting for 

682
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,960
and just knocked it off with the
Jewish jokes? 

683
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,440
Like I I don't understand that. 
Yeah, well, because of course 

684
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,360
you've got the character of Lou 
he he's, he cropped up now. 

685
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,240
He's hilarious, I gotta say. 
He's hilarious. 

686
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,680
And does he get a free pass cuz 
Sellers was Jewish? 

687
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,680
Yes, he does. 
Neddy. 

688
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,680
Little little Neddy. 
See the down? 

689
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,240
Yeah. 
Ever chopped live a cigarette? 

690
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,960
No thanks. 
I always chop my own. 

691
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,520
Good luck. 
Listen, schlepper, listen. 

692
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,800
The lines between the ice creams
and Pevensey Bay station around 

693
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:58,280
the 20 feet of snow. 
But something else I would like 

694
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:04,160
to say, and I want to get this 
in really quickly, the idea that

695
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,800
this generation is more 
enlightened and more in tune 

696
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,520
with the world than any other 
really falls apart. 

697
00:49:12,820 --> 00:49:17,340
When you think what we're doing 
to our planet and how future 

698
00:49:17,340 --> 00:49:21,540
generations are going to judge 
us for what we're doing to the 

699
00:49:21,540 --> 00:49:29,220
planet, so us operating on a 
kind of ethical superiority kind

700
00:49:29,220 --> 00:49:31,500
of falls apart when you think 
about that. 

701
00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:36,300
On that, you and Spike would be 
100% aligned if Spike was still 

702
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:39,250
around today. 
I'm sorry if I'm going off on a 

703
00:49:39,410 --> 00:49:41,690
political rant here. 
You can edit most. 

704
00:49:41,690 --> 00:49:43,530
Of this out. 
That's all right. 

705
00:49:46,130 --> 00:49:48,650
That's all right. 
So amongst your peers, amongst 

706
00:49:49,650 --> 00:49:51,970
your friends, your social group,
yeah. 

707
00:49:52,770 --> 00:49:55,050
Have you tried to play them? 
The goons? 

708
00:49:55,050 --> 00:49:56,570
Have you tried to introduce them
to the show? 

709
00:49:58,010 --> 00:50:01,690
Well, I quote the goons all the 
time in my house. 

710
00:50:01,930 --> 00:50:05,580
Okay. 
And my friends and family are 

711
00:50:05,580 --> 00:50:10,580
just like, well, I like them 
when you do them, but delivered 

712
00:50:10,580 --> 00:50:16,420
at the pace that they're at, 
it's just they can't understand 

713
00:50:16,420 --> 00:50:20,100
it no matter how many times I 
play it to them, Which I think 

714
00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:25,540
is a credit to Spike because 
that's something cutting Edge in

715
00:50:25,540 --> 00:50:30,340
the 50s, incredibly Cutting Edge
is so ahead of its time did it. 

716
00:50:30,980 --> 00:50:34,180
Continued to flummox and confuse
people. 

717
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:39,660
Today we've heard like 5 or 6 
episodes that that's a real 

718
00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:42,340
testament to how ahead of its 
time. 

719
00:50:42,340 --> 00:50:47,500
It was something I am quite 
proud of. 

720
00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:53,620
I have be A couple of years ago 
my whole family started calling 

721
00:50:53,620 --> 00:50:57,060
each other gym after sentences 
like. 

722
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:04,200
So we're constantly doing the 
Jim Spriggs bit and we do it so 

723
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,400
much that it's turned into 
muscle memory basically. 

724
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,520
How are you doing today, Jim? 
How are you doing today? 

725
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,080
Yeah. 
So I'd rather mile from your 

726
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,160
house if I heard it. 
Remember coming out with that? 

727
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:25,950
No, it's it's something we all 
love doing. 

728
00:51:25,950 --> 00:51:27,830
I didn't. 
I didn't push it on anyone. 

729
00:51:29,230 --> 00:51:35,430
People, people who know this 
podcast know that I'm a bit cool

730
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:38,830
about Hancock's Half Hour. 
You know, I make no bones about 

731
00:51:38,830 --> 00:51:41,950
it, but because I listened to 
Hancock's Half Hour and yeah, I 

732
00:51:41,950 --> 00:51:44,230
love Golden Simpson. 
I love, I love Steptoe. 

733
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:48,030
And son, have you a. 
Steptoe and Son is great. 

734
00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:50,150
I love. 
I love their work on that. 

735
00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:53,630
But but. 
That Hancock Hancock's half 

736
00:51:53,630 --> 00:51:56,510
hour, I've always been a bit 
sort of about and because it to 

737
00:51:56,510 --> 00:52:00,470
me, it just sounds like it 
sounds like what it is, a 1950s 

738
00:52:01,430 --> 00:52:04,910
radio comedy show. 
Whereas the Goon Show, you 

739
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:09,750
listen to a, you know, a great 
episode of The Goon Show, it's 

740
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:13,550
it doesn't sound like, you know,
a 1950s radio show. 

741
00:52:13,550 --> 00:52:18,270
It just sounds like a an oral 
cartoon, you know, Obviously 

742
00:52:18,270 --> 00:52:20,430
there's references in it that 
will give away. 

743
00:52:21,260 --> 00:52:25,100
The time period that it was 
broadcast and whatnot. 

744
00:52:25,100 --> 00:52:29,340
But in some ways, if you know, 
if you get the right show, the 

745
00:52:29,340 --> 00:52:33,700
right scenes, if you catch the 
right bits of it, it's 

746
00:52:33,740 --> 00:52:36,660
absolutely timeless and it 
sounds fresh even now. 

747
00:52:37,380 --> 00:52:42,260
The TV stuff is better for me. 
I watched the TV stuff more than

748
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:46,020
I do the radio. 
Show well, tell Telekins. 

749
00:52:46,020 --> 00:52:49,470
What do you mean, Hancock? 
Yeah, hand. 

750
00:52:49,470 --> 00:52:49,990
All right. 
I. 

751
00:52:50,590 --> 00:52:52,870
Was gonna say the telly? 
Have you seen Have you seen any 

752
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:53,550
telly goons? 
I've. 

753
00:52:54,270 --> 00:52:56,510
Seen all the telly goons? 
God? 

754
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:59,070
Right. 
Horrendous. 

755
00:52:59,110 --> 00:53:02,990
Yeah, yeah, I'm doing an episode
on them. 

756
00:53:03,870 --> 00:53:05,910
I want. 
I'm supposed to be doing an 

757
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:08,870
episode on them later this year.
Well, I want to because it's the

758
00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:14,990
60th anniversary in October. 
Not how I want to picture them 

759
00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:16,910
at all. 
No. 

760
00:53:17,380 --> 00:53:19,540
That that echoes design is 
hideous. 

761
00:53:21,540 --> 00:53:24,340
Back to Hancock for for a 
second. 

762
00:53:25,060 --> 00:53:33,900
I think the closest thing that 
American comedy has to British 

763
00:53:34,060 --> 00:53:40,980
humor and like British kitchen 
sink realism, that kind of 

764
00:53:40,980 --> 00:53:43,260
thing. 
The closest thing we've ever 

765
00:53:43,260 --> 00:53:47,810
gotten to. 
That on American sitcoms is the 

766
00:53:47,810 --> 00:53:50,370
Honeymooners. 
OK, yeah. 

767
00:53:52,010 --> 00:53:59,650
It's just got this this sense of
dread and you can just feel the 

768
00:54:00,010 --> 00:54:04,290
the poverty and and the 
suffering that these characters 

769
00:54:04,290 --> 00:54:08,610
go through. 
But it's not dwelt on and I feel

770
00:54:08,610 --> 00:54:13,050
some of that that same energy in
Hancock. 

771
00:54:13,950 --> 00:54:19,190
Right. 
Something else I wanted to say 

772
00:54:19,190 --> 00:54:21,430
about radio shall. 
I pull you there. 

773
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:22,670
Can I just ask about the 
Honeymooners? 

774
00:54:22,670 --> 00:54:24,590
Cuz I've. 
I don't think I've ever seen a 

775
00:54:24,590 --> 00:54:25,990
whole episode all the way 
through. 

776
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:30,030
It's fantastic. 
But I'm aware it's Jackie 

777
00:54:30,030 --> 00:54:31,950
Gleason. 
Yeah, yeah. 

778
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:36,510
And I'm aware of its legacy. 
Okay. 

779
00:54:36,550 --> 00:54:40,840
Yeah, but. 
The 1950s in America wasn't that

780
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:42,680
sort of held up as being, wasn't
it? 

781
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:47,200
Wasn't the the projection that 
it was America to come come out 

782
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,160
of the war triumphant. 
And the 1950s was a was a time 

783
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:55,760
of hope and positivity and 
everyone had huge cars and you 

784
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,360
know everything was great, 
great, great. 

785
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,240
I know that wasn't the the 
reality but how did the 

786
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,840
Honeymooners or the writers of 
the Honeymooners or or the 

787
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,680
producers, how did they kind of 
square that with putting out 

788
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,690
this? 
Situation comedy. 

789
00:55:09,690 --> 00:55:12,490
That was more or less saying 
life's crummy. 

790
00:55:12,570 --> 00:55:14,770
How did they get away with that 
in that era? 

791
00:55:15,610 --> 00:55:22,410
Because Jackie Gleason, who was 
even more popular for his 

792
00:55:22,690 --> 00:55:28,170
variety shows The Honeymooners, 
actually didn't really rate all 

793
00:55:28,170 --> 00:55:34,010
that highly initially. 
I think it was always in the top

794
00:55:34,010 --> 00:55:36,650
10, but it never reached the 
heights. 

795
00:55:37,740 --> 00:55:41,060
That I Love Lucy did, at least 
in in the ratings. 

796
00:55:41,060 --> 00:55:46,900
But I think it was that Jackie 
Gleason had come from a place of

797
00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:55,180
poverty and he wanted to. 
He wanted to create a character 

798
00:55:55,180 --> 00:55:59,300
who would bite his way through 
poverty, just like his parents 

799
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:05,100
had, and just. 
Put some of that pain of the 

800
00:56:05,100 --> 00:56:07,980
poverty of his early life into 
his comedy. 

801
00:56:08,420 --> 00:56:11,220
So he he wanted to give back in 
a way. 

802
00:56:11,220 --> 00:56:16,980
OK, but one, one thing I want to
say about radio. 

803
00:56:17,060 --> 00:56:20,900
Yeah. 
And also the way my generation 

804
00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:27,660
and those younger than me 
consume media I like from the 

805
00:56:27,660 --> 00:56:35,930
ages of I I would say 11. 11 to 
16 I was very much into old time

806
00:56:35,930 --> 00:56:41,450
radio, you know, Fibber McGee 
and Molly, Jack, Benny, Red 

807
00:56:41,450 --> 00:56:46,650
Allen, those kind of things. 
So when I when I first heard the

808
00:56:46,650 --> 00:56:53,490
Goon Show, it was just like like
Eric Sykes said. 

809
00:56:53,490 --> 00:56:58,330
The roof came off and it it was 
all sunshine, it just. 

810
00:56:59,270 --> 00:57:06,710
So I don't have the problems of 
anything being a 1950s radio 

811
00:57:06,710 --> 00:57:10,830
sitcom because I love 1950s 
radio sitcoms. 

812
00:57:11,830 --> 00:57:16,270
Yeah, the The Goon Show I barely
even consider a sitcom. 

813
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:20,630
Well, it's a variety show 
technically, I suppose because 

814
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:24,870
it's got music in it, but and 
sometimes you could want to say 

815
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:27,150
it was a sketch show, 
particularly in the early days. 

816
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:33,340
Here's an interesting question 
for you actually, because I've 

817
00:57:33,340 --> 00:57:37,580
been doing, I've been editing 
something else recently and I 

818
00:57:37,580 --> 00:57:40,260
won't go into it. 
But the the person that was a 

819
00:57:40,260 --> 00:57:43,100
recording I've done previously 
that I'm sort of putting 

820
00:57:43,100 --> 00:57:45,940
together. 
And one of the comments that the

821
00:57:45,940 --> 00:57:49,860
gentleman in question made was 
that he he said, he kind of 

822
00:57:49,860 --> 00:57:53,340
basically said be careful what 
you wish for and what he meant 

823
00:57:53,340 --> 00:57:58,300
was what you know let's consider
that somehow. 

824
00:57:58,910 --> 00:58:01,950
One day somebody's grandfather 
passes away and they're clearing

825
00:58:01,950 --> 00:58:07,150
out his his loft, his attic and 
they come across a box full of 

826
00:58:07,150 --> 00:58:11,910
crate full AT chess full of 
recordings of, I don't know, 

827
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:16,910
Series 2, Series 3 goon shows 
that you know he had recorded on

828
00:58:17,230 --> 00:58:20,630
onto disc or you know all sort 
of Realty reel cassettes even. 

829
00:58:20,830 --> 00:58:23,390
Let's let's assume that they 
hadn't deteriorated, that they 

830
00:58:23,390 --> 00:58:27,270
were still playable and no good 
quality okay and and. 

831
00:58:27,740 --> 00:58:31,580
The sky would be dark with hats.
It would be considered to, you 

832
00:58:31,660 --> 00:58:34,340
know one of the, the greatest 
comedy finds of the decade. 

833
00:58:35,260 --> 00:58:38,580
Yeah, but he's this guy I was 
talking to. 

834
00:58:38,580 --> 00:58:40,620
He said, look, you know, he kind
of basically said be careful 

835
00:58:40,620 --> 00:58:43,980
what you wish for because 
they're probably not very good, 

836
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:47,580
those shows because they were 
still finding their feet. 

837
00:58:47,740 --> 00:58:50,140
And he's and he's a huge 
advocate, huge fan of the goons.

838
00:58:50,140 --> 00:58:53,060
You know he wasn't saying he he 
was saying, you know they 

839
00:58:53,140 --> 00:58:58,010
probably wouldn't be that funny.
The Encyclopedia Goonicus has 

840
00:58:58,010 --> 00:59:01,250
all the scripts, doesn't. 
It it does, it does, but. 

841
00:59:01,330 --> 00:59:03,930
Have you got? 
Have you gone through any of the

842
00:59:03,930 --> 00:59:09,330
early scripts? 
Not to a great extent but I'm a 

843
00:59:09,730 --> 00:59:14,370
script is one thing because it's
I think 50% of it is a script 

844
00:59:14,370 --> 00:59:20,210
50% of it is the performance. 
Yeah and and I and I from from 

845
00:59:20,210 --> 00:59:22,690
the handful of very old Goon 
shows. 

846
00:59:23,250 --> 00:59:24,810
Say very old. 
You know, there's a couple from 

847
00:59:24,810 --> 00:59:29,050
Series 2. 
There's a couple from around 

848
00:59:29,050 --> 00:59:34,130
that period. 
They didn't seem as loose, as 

849
00:59:34,770 --> 00:59:37,450
confident as assured of 
themselves. 

850
00:59:38,010 --> 00:59:41,330
The performance, Milligan 
seeking sellers, even benting. 

851
00:59:42,370 --> 00:59:49,730
I remember you did an episode on
the case of the vanishing room. 

852
00:59:49,770 --> 00:59:52,330
Yes. 
Comparing it to its. 

853
00:59:53,220 --> 00:59:58,540
Series 4 version and the more 
because I just got the Goon Show

854
00:59:58,540 --> 01:00:05,380
Compendiums on Audiobook. 
Oh, for for any Canadian fans 

855
01:00:05,380 --> 01:00:09,660
who may be listening, the The 
Goon Show audiobooks are 

856
01:00:09,660 --> 01:00:16,940
available at the the Apple 
Bookstore for like $16.00 

857
01:00:16,940 --> 01:00:20,300
apiece. 
So wow, yeah. 

858
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,600
I mean, I don't know the 
exchange rate, how much that is 

859
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,040
in British pounds, but that 
doesn't sound like very much at 

860
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:29,440
all. 
It's not. 

861
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,000
Well that's that's a perfect 
example because I did we we 

862
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,720
covered the The Vanishing Room 
with the Mike Haskins and I mean

863
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,080
I'm not a big fan particularly 
of the vintage Goons series 

864
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:40,640
either. 
There's a few good ones in that 

865
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:44,480
but you know it was it was they 
they were made under rather 

866
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,760
strained circumstances, but this
the vintage Goons version. 

867
01:00:49,540 --> 01:00:54,180
Of essentially the same script 
more or less is far superior to 

868
01:00:54,180 --> 01:00:59,100
the Series 4 version. 
So yeah but the point I was 

869
01:00:59,100 --> 01:01:03,820
making you know a century ago 
was that if if these if a if a 

870
01:01:04,140 --> 01:01:08,020
stack of old goon shows was 
discovered I just you kind of 

871
01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:10,820
worried that you know they might
not be that good. 

872
01:01:11,060 --> 01:01:14,300
We've we've been we've been 
spoiled by having the main 

873
01:01:14,300 --> 01:01:17,580
extent goon shows have been from
Series 5 onwards which is. 

874
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,880
When the show really got into 
its stride, you know what I 

875
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,520
mean? 
Yeah, Okay, Here's a question I 

876
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:32,760
have. 
Do you know if The Curse of 

877
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:37,320
Frankenstein was always the 
title of the script? 

878
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,880
Because it's always seemed to me
like. 

879
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:46,120
A very bad joke followed by the 
actual episode title, which is 

880
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,800
My heart's in the Highlands and 
My Feet are in Bombay, or I was 

881
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,600
the victim of a terrible 
explosion. 

882
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:56,560
Like, why? 
Why is that not the episode 

883
01:01:56,560 --> 01:02:01,080
title and everything I can find 
on it lists it as the Curse of 

884
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:02,640
Frankenstein. 
Because. 

885
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,120
Because The Curse of 
Frankenstein is a pithy a 

886
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:10,460
quicker title than. 
My heart is in What was that 

887
01:02:10,460 --> 01:02:11,660
again? 
I forgot already. 

888
01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:15,020
My heart's in the My heart's in 
the Highlands, but my feet. 

889
01:02:15,020 --> 01:02:16,940
Are in Bombay? 
Yes, yes, but. 

890
01:02:17,380 --> 01:02:19,700
That's that's a much funnier 
title. 

891
01:02:20,060 --> 01:02:22,860
True. 
Again, that's just Spike playing

892
01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:25,820
with the form. 
Yeah, Spike just messing with 

893
01:02:25,820 --> 01:02:31,220
the audience, you know, because 
you look at, I don't know, World

894
01:02:31,220 --> 01:02:33,940
War One, the episode World War 
One from Series 8. 

895
01:02:34,860 --> 01:02:37,420
What's the title of that when 
it's written down? 

896
01:02:41,230 --> 01:02:49,270
Yeah, port one now that's that's
a really good episode. 

897
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:51,270
That is. 
That's yeah. 

898
01:02:51,950 --> 01:02:55,750
I love the ending. 
The ending is just perfection in

899
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:58,790
that episode. 
Here is a special news bulletin.

900
01:02:59,310 --> 01:03:01,830
British troops will come home 
from France at once. 

901
01:03:01,830 --> 01:03:05,830
Hooray Fox. 
They think it's 19104 the. 

902
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:10,800
My German army shares will be 
worth a fortune run What the 

903
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:17,400
British struck 1918 calendars on
Berlin and the Germans 

904
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:22,200
surrender. 
Oh dear. 

905
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:28,320
Sounds at the end, isn't it? 
Wall. 

906
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:30,080
Perfectly correct. 
Missus egorn. 

907
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,240
Good night. 
I can hear your socks. 

908
01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:40,020
Yeah, that's that's a talking 
point. 

909
01:03:40,140 --> 01:03:44,060
The green show endings tend to 
be certainly as the show went 

910
01:03:44,060 --> 01:03:47,020
on, they tended to be kind of 
throwaway endings, didn't they? 

911
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:50,020
Generally with a few good things
like that one. 

912
01:03:50,820 --> 01:03:54,940
The two, the other example I can
think of that ends really well 

913
01:03:54,940 --> 01:04:00,980
is the battle of spy and cop. 
That that's just. 

914
01:04:01,630 --> 01:04:05,390
Changing history. 
So Napoleon won Waterloo. 

915
01:04:05,710 --> 01:04:08,270
OK, folks, get your new history 
books. 

916
01:04:08,310 --> 01:04:11,710
Yeah, yeah. 
I, I, I just, I I don't know. 

917
01:04:11,710 --> 01:04:15,910
I really like that. 
That ending it if it feels like 

918
01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:19,190
it was more planned than other 
endings. 

919
01:04:20,190 --> 01:04:25,190
A lot of shows just seem to stop
with no end punch line. 

920
01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:30,610
They do and there's a bunch of. 
Shows where they lampshade the 

921
01:04:30,610 --> 01:04:35,370
point that they don't have any 
punchline and say you know, OK, 

922
01:04:35,370 --> 01:04:39,130
well give us, give us, give us a
five mile start. 

923
01:04:39,130 --> 01:04:41,010
Don't let the audience know that
was. 

924
01:04:41,010 --> 01:04:52,290
The ending, Yeah. 01 One thing I
wanted to talk about now, apart 

925
01:04:52,290 --> 01:04:57,370
from comedy, my main obsession 
is literature. 

926
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:03,400
And Kafka is my absolute 
favorite author and the goons 

927
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,920
were compared to Kafka in, in 
the 50s, yes. 

928
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:12,360
And I just, you know, as someone
who's read Kafka repeatedly, I I

929
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:17,400
kind of want to talk about the 
where I think it's similar and 

930
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,840
and where I think it differs 
because I think a lot of those 

931
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,920
comparisons were incredibly off 
base. 

932
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,840
Well, I've read. 
I've read the The Trial. 

933
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,320
Of course I've read the castle, 
which was. 

934
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,320
I must admit, I found the castle
was a real slog. 

935
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,120
I don't know. 
You probably love the castle, do

936
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:40,840
you? 
I love the castle. 

937
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,120
I like it more than the trial. 
OK. 

938
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:47,760
And I've read Metamorphosis, of 
course, but but yeah, they were 

939
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:52,560
compared to the to Kafka. 
But I mean, Kafka's just like 

940
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,800
existential nightmare 
bureaucracy, isn't it? 

941
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:01,830
Yeah. 
Actually, the The Borag is the 

942
01:06:01,830 --> 01:06:08,150
most Kafkaesque of The Goon Show
because it's the only one that 

943
01:06:08,150 --> 01:06:12,950
has that existential, you know, 
bone deep bread. 

944
01:06:13,310 --> 01:06:20,670
But Kafka is all about there's 
one story of his called The 

945
01:06:20,670 --> 01:06:26,110
Hunger Artist that functions as 
this very, very dark joke. 

946
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:34,650
Probably the most overt use of 
humor in his in his books. 

947
01:06:35,690 --> 01:06:40,690
It's a story about a man who has
been starving for months and 

948
01:06:40,690 --> 01:06:47,490
months and refuses to eat and 
you know, gets very emaciated 

949
01:06:47,730 --> 01:06:54,410
and thin and almost dies and at 
the moment they at the moment 

950
01:06:54,410 --> 01:06:57,870
they, you know, say. 
You know, we're gonna have to 

951
01:06:58,230 --> 01:07:03,150
have someone else in this cage 
because you're, you know, you're

952
01:07:03,550 --> 01:07:05,190
awful to look. 
At and you're right. 

953
01:07:05,630 --> 01:07:10,150
You're driving the customers 
away and everything, and as he's

954
01:07:10,150 --> 01:07:15,990
dying, someone asked him why did
you starve yourself for all this

955
01:07:15,990 --> 01:07:18,950
time? 
And he says well, because I 

956
01:07:19,070 --> 01:07:21,270
couldn't find anything I wanted 
to eat. 

957
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:24,940
Right. 
That does sound like something 

958
01:07:25,100 --> 01:07:29,460
kind of Megan, have you ever 
read Hunger by? 

959
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:34,020
Is it Newt Hampson, the 
Norwegian writer? 

960
01:07:35,580 --> 01:07:39,660
I I have not heard of him, but 
if he's anything at all like 

961
01:07:39,780 --> 01:07:41,220
Kafka, I. 
OK. 

962
01:07:41,460 --> 01:07:43,980
If you like Kafka, you probably 
like that. 

963
01:07:45,060 --> 01:07:47,580
Maybe not, but. 
OK, fantastic. 

964
01:07:47,900 --> 01:07:51,660
I'll give it a go. 
One more thing I would like to 

965
01:07:51,660 --> 01:07:55,280
say, yeah. 
I think there's a fundamental 

966
01:07:55,280 --> 01:08:02,000
difference in the way that your 
generation consume media and the

967
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:06,400
way mine does and people who are
younger than me, because we can 

968
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:12,440
basically with all these old 
radio shows and all these movies

969
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,840
are available, we basically 
have. 

970
01:08:15,330 --> 01:08:18,649
The entire history of 
entertainment at our fingertips.

971
01:08:18,649 --> 01:08:23,770
So it's like you find someone 
who was influenced by someone 

972
01:08:23,770 --> 01:08:30,810
else, then you go and hear that 
thing and then you and it's 

973
01:08:30,930 --> 01:08:36,490
everything's kind of connected 
because there's comedians 

974
01:08:36,729 --> 01:08:41,569
influence, then more comedians, 
then more influenced than who 

975
01:08:41,569 --> 01:08:45,020
they influenced. 
And people who were influenced 

976
01:08:45,020 --> 01:08:49,540
by them. 
And it's just a long, long 

977
01:08:49,540 --> 01:08:52,740
chain, do you know what I'm 
saying? 

978
01:08:53,020 --> 01:09:00,660
Yeah, are you? 
Can you point to echoes of The 

979
01:09:00,660 --> 01:09:03,260
Goon Show in modern comedy, even
today? 

980
01:09:03,620 --> 01:09:05,220
You know can. 
Tim and Eric. 

981
01:09:05,220 --> 01:09:07,620
Tim. 
And Eric, yeah, I've seen a bit 

982
01:09:07,620 --> 01:09:09,220
of Tim and Eric. 
OK. 

983
01:09:09,620 --> 01:09:12,180
Yeah. 
Just in just in the pace. 

984
01:09:12,859 --> 01:09:19,540
Because they they have a lot of 
times they'll have these 

985
01:09:19,540 --> 01:09:25,220
sketches that are like maybe 50 
seconds long or 30 seconds long.

986
01:09:25,859 --> 01:09:31,220
No sketch usually breaks 2 
minutes and they're 11 minute 

987
01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:36,200
shows, so sometimes you'll get. 
Maybe 10 sketches. 

988
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:42,680
A show or something insane. 
So it it just like the Goon 

989
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:48,960
show, it just bombards your 
brain. 

990
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:55,720
So yeah, when when I watched Tim
and Eric I I sometimes think of 

991
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:02,830
the Goon Show and actually. 
I've been trying to combine the 

992
01:10:02,830 --> 01:10:09,030
Kafka side of my influence with 
the Milligan side, and I 

993
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:13,350
actually think that there's a 
show that already already did 

994
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:16,670
that, which I've recently 
discovered called Jam. 

995
01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:21,790
No Chris Morris. 
Yes, yes, I love it. 

996
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:24,550
But again, people do not watch 
that show. 

997
01:10:26,530 --> 01:10:30,290
Or you'll think I'm a terrible 
person for loving it. 

998
01:10:31,490 --> 01:10:34,810
You know, it's yeah, it's it's 
just one of those things. 

999
01:10:35,810 --> 01:10:38,890
Chris Chris Morris's most 
mainstream work, I think, is 

1000
01:10:38,890 --> 01:10:42,250
probably the day. 
Today remains the day. 

1001
01:10:42,250 --> 01:10:45,250
Today, I love Brass Eye too. 
Well, yeah, but Brass Eye. 

1002
01:10:45,290 --> 01:10:48,690
Brass Eye is great. 
But the certain the certain 

1003
01:10:48,730 --> 01:10:53,050
editions of Brass Eye that would
raise some eyebrows today for 

1004
01:10:53,050 --> 01:10:53,610
sure. 
Oh. 

1005
01:10:53,610 --> 01:10:59,320
Totally, totally, like oh. 
Actually, just one more point I 

1006
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:03,480
wanted to make. 
There is a scene in Brass Eye 

1007
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:08,240
that I think attempts the same 
thing that Milligan did or 

1008
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:13,520
Milligan was trying to do. 
I think it's it's in the crime 

1009
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:22,720
episode where a character gets 
in like a white character. 

1010
01:11:23,310 --> 01:11:27,390
Gets into blackface. 
Now chafing the transmission 

1011
01:11:27,390 --> 01:11:29,750
heads. 
What is the relationship between

1012
01:11:29,750 --> 01:11:32,830
crime and race? 
Using makeup sticks, we 

1013
01:11:32,830 --> 01:11:35,430
transformed our white reporter. 
Trust you pray. 

1014
01:11:35,630 --> 01:11:38,190
Into a black man. 
To see if the law would treat 

1015
01:11:38,190 --> 01:11:42,110
him any differently. 
Within 5 minutes he committed a 

1016
01:11:42,110 --> 01:11:45,990
pocket theft, and by 
midafternoon he was attacking 

1017
01:11:45,990 --> 01:11:50,230
passers by with violent muggings
and fleecing them viciously on 

1018
01:11:50,230 --> 01:11:54,150
the cobbles. 
Like I I can understand where 

1019
01:11:54,150 --> 01:11:58,590
that joke was coming from and 
what it was trying to do, but 

1020
01:11:58,590 --> 01:12:02,830
it's just distasteful, even 
though conceptually it's funny. 

1021
01:12:03,310 --> 01:12:05,110
Yeah. 
Yeah, you know what I mean? 

1022
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:09,550
Yeah, yeah. 
He was trying to do a similar 

1023
01:12:09,550 --> 01:12:12,190
thing to what Spike was trying 
to do. 

1024
01:12:12,190 --> 01:12:16,950
And dreadful revenge of Fred Fu 
Manchu, the disappointed 

1025
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:25,990
Oriental saxophonist and. 
In either case, Chris Morris or 

1026
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:33,990
Spike, I don't think any of 
those work, but you know it it 

1027
01:12:34,390 --> 01:12:36,670
at least they're conceptually 
daring. 

1028
01:12:36,870 --> 01:12:39,670
At least they're trying 
different things. 

1029
01:12:39,990 --> 01:12:47,230
Like I the thing with Spike, I 
think he was the first comedian.

1030
01:12:47,590 --> 01:12:49,870
I I just get this feeling from 
him. 

1031
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:54,960
Who thought of his work as, 
like, being avant-garde, just 

1032
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:59,440
trying to play with structure, 
the the way you tell jokes. 

1033
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,640
Just pieces of things like I was
talking about that sound like 

1034
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:11,120
jokes but aren't jokes. 
And I I feel like he was 

1035
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:18,720
thinking of his stuff as not 
only comedy but like art. 

1036
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:24,240
Not not higher art, of course. 
But you know, it's. 

1037
01:13:24,440 --> 01:13:27,400
Yeah. 
Spike was the first avant-garde 

1038
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:28,640
comedian. 
He didn't. 

1039
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,040
I would say he didn't say it as 
disposable, throwaway comedy, 

1040
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:33,800
necessarily. 
No, he didn't. 

1041
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,880
He sweated to produce these 
shows, to get these shows out 

1042
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,480
and and he would the last thing 
he would want to think of them 

1043
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:46,840
as being disposable. 
Yeah, not as you say, art or 

1044
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:50,180
high art, but. 
In their own way and art form. 

1045
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:54,860
Yeah. 
And on that note, I think what 

1046
01:13:54,860 --> 01:13:57,820
better place to end our 
conversation? 

1047
01:13:57,820 --> 01:14:00,820
Zach definitely would like you 
to come back and talk about, 

1048
01:14:00,980 --> 01:14:04,580
well, maybe I was thinking, I 
don't know, maybe there's 

1049
01:14:05,060 --> 01:14:07,740
another goon show you'd come 
back and talk about rather than.

1050
01:14:07,820 --> 01:14:09,420
OK. 
OK. 

1051
01:14:09,540 --> 01:14:11,260
OK. 
The telephone. 

1052
01:14:11,340 --> 01:14:13,540
Great. 
I love the telephone. 

1053
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:14,980
No one talks about the 
telephone. 

1054
01:14:15,020 --> 01:14:17,540
I love that. 
It's a great episode, The 

1055
01:14:17,540 --> 01:14:21,740
telephone. 
Did anyone do shifting sands? 

1056
01:14:21,780 --> 01:14:25,660
Yet no. 
No Okay Okay. 

1057
01:14:25,660 --> 01:14:27,620
Shifting sands. 
All right, then we'll do shift. 

1058
01:14:27,620 --> 01:14:32,460
Yeah, Shifting Sands with one of
the best blood knock scenes, The

1059
01:14:32,460 --> 01:14:40,340
scene with him and chin strap. 
Oh my God. 

1060
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:44,950
I have said, I have certainly 
used that line or a variation of

1061
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:46,910
that line in real life on a 
number of occasions. 

1062
01:14:48,390 --> 01:14:55,430
I suppose you're wondering why 
you sent for me, Okay. 

1063
01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:59,470
So we will, we will meet again. 
It probably be next year, Zach. 

1064
01:14:59,750 --> 01:15:02,750
I'm scheduled right up the wazoo
for the rest of the year, but 

1065
01:15:02,750 --> 01:15:05,190
maybe next year you could come 
back and talk about shifting 

1066
01:15:05,190 --> 01:15:06,790
sands. 
So I'll put you down on the list

1067
01:15:06,790 --> 01:15:09,600
for that. 
And it's been a real pleasure 

1068
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,280
speaking with you. 
It's been great having such a 

1069
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,600
different perspective from 
someone you know. 

1070
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:19,040
I have had someone who's younger
than you as a guest, yeah, and 

1071
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:22,800
marginally. 
Yeah, the Spring Robberies 

1072
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,240
episode. 
String robberies with Molly. 

1073
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:27,440
But you know, she came from 
that. 

1074
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:30,120
You know, let's face it, you 
know, she grew up in Britain. 

1075
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:31,320
It was more, you know, she had 
a. 

1076
01:15:32,710 --> 01:15:34,070
She had a parent who introduced 
her. 

1077
01:15:34,070 --> 01:15:37,790
So it, you know, you certainly 
stand out in terms of how you 

1078
01:15:38,150 --> 01:15:43,270
came to the goons, your cultural
upbringing being so different, 

1079
01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:45,350
not that different, but you 
know, different. 

1080
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:49,030
So it's been a real eye opener 
and you've raised so many 

1081
01:15:49,030 --> 01:15:51,030
interesting points and made so 
many interesting points. 

1082
01:15:51,580 --> 01:15:54,260
So. 
I I would love to be back as 

1083
01:15:54,260 --> 01:15:57,300
soon as possible. 
I I know you you're you got 

1084
01:15:57,300 --> 01:16:01,700
shows booked up until the end of
the year, but I I loved being on

1085
01:16:01,700 --> 01:16:05,220
this show. 
I've been excited about it for 

1086
01:16:05,220 --> 01:16:07,540
months, honestly. 
Well, bless you. 

1087
01:16:07,700 --> 01:16:10,460
Bless you. 
Well, listen, thanks again mate 

1088
01:16:10,460 --> 01:16:13,660
and we will talk again soon. 
OK.