The. Hello and welcome to Goon Pod
this week. Something a little different.
I'm always trying to keep fresh and try out different wrinkles
and sometimes it's quite nice not to have to do any work and
actually let a guest do most of the heavy lifting.
With most shows on Goon Pod, I'm all across the subject.
I'm researched up the wazoo and that can take time and effort
and there are downsides to that. I sometimes pass my wife in the
kitchen and she's wearing a sandwich board with Podcast
Widow written on. I'm always delighted when this
week's guest is on the show. He's a bottomless pit of British
popular culture and classic showbiz and light end knowledge
and makes me laugh like an idiot as well.
So this week I asked Chris Diamond, erstwhile TV cream
panjandrum, to come on the show and talk about comedy.
I had a list of talking points, which he chose at random, and we
shot the breeze for 90 minutes about everything from Blackadder
to Benting. As the last name there
indicates, the conversation was not a goon free zone.
In fact, a chunk was devoted to discussing Spike Milligan's
lesser chat show appearances. So listeners about to angrily
switch off crumbling about this episode not meeting the brief
should stay their hand. Anyway, it's largely unedited,
which is nice and gives it a loose feel, and I think it works
very well. Judge for yourself.
So what I wanted to do was just just have a general chat about
comedy. Always available.
So I've got a job, I've got a load of talking point type
things, OK, mainly about films, British films, TV and the like.
And as I've sprinkled a few goon related questions just to just
just so it stays within the remit of the podcast, you know
what I mean? Absolutely.
But nothing specific, nothing, nothing too taxing.
This, this is 30/30/12. We ain't getting through them
all. Random.
Well, this one, I was going to ask you, give us a number
between 1 and 30 and we'll see how we get on.
Well, I was watching on top of the post the other day, so let's
go for 19. 19 No No. No, no, no, you know that 19.
OK, that's interesting because of as well as well.
All I've got down here is Bob Monkhouse.
Oh, there you go. Let's see as subliminally I knew
that was a good a good place to start.
Discuss. Not really Bob Book is.
I'm trying to think of the odd film.
Obviously isn't. Carry on, Sergeant.
Dentist on the job? Dentist on the job.
Yeah, you could you know, you could see you could see why
producers would think, you know, he's going to be we can become
into a film star, you know, because he's quite slightly
quite shiny and and he obviously worked hard and obviously, you
know wanted to do it, but I don't know I just don't think he
ever came across on screen as very engaging.
You know yes, it's difficult to difficult to warm Tim.
I think on the screen I'd I'd it's probably really unfair.
But do you know that Victoria with Christmas special that she
did then the one where it was like I had all the different
BBCDI think was our idea of satirizing?
Oh yes. Yeah, all the different channels
like you see for BBC Netting and below.
Yes, yeah. There was there was about where
we let Anna Weng was the tea lady and Bob Monko's standing
chart and it just a little cutaway and he says that, you
know, the great thing was that a sincerity, but people always
thought I wasn't sincere, but I was actually underneath.
I was sincere, but they might be under that I wasn't sincere.
Anyway, I've got you, but it's actually undeniably one of the
greatest stand ups, I think in the and also a fantastic writer.
But obviously Bob, but you know, as a superlative game show host,
but you know, I don't really think he gets the props that he
deserves nowadays. Does it say that Renaissance was
he? Didn't he?
He did, yeah. Because I think a lot of I think
that was because of a sort of a Malcolm Gladwell style, you
know, all the comedians that you'd helped over the years that
came, come of age. Yeah.
Excuse me.
They come to, they come to Crawlman.
And so they were in a position to meet us to make a fuss over.
And I remember that thing you remember that thing you did
where it was like like I was almost like a private do when he
was like, you know, I remember it being it was, it was
eventually shown on BBC Four I think.
Kevin Day Kevin Day was in the audience and there was other
comedians in the audience. Yeah, that's right.
That's right. I think actually, I think
Dominic Holland was in the audience as well and some Spider
Man style. And they like Frank Skinner
might have been there and you know, Mike Yardwood was the
guest and all that. But I remember actually somebody
showed me that long before it was on the tally and it was sort
of being passed like a sort of soldier Nets and palimpsest from
person to person. It's like, oh, you mean to see
this? What were the recordings?
Which is why I think I've no N say track on it whatsoever.
So I can't speak to any great knowledge, surprisingly.
But I think that's why the broadcast quality over isn't
amazing because it looks like it's so short and a sort of
handheld kind of thing for a lot of it.
And I'm not sure whether it was intended to be broadcast, but it
was. Maybe it wasn't, but but it was
it was one of those things as you see was part of that sort of
wave of recognition. The thing that and amongst all
of it though that tell me a thing.
It rankled me so much, but it still pops out of my head and
everything again and pisses me off really.
Did one of these 100 greatest things remember there was like
everybody was at was at it in the early 2000s.
Yeah. And there was 100 greatest stand
up comedians. It was it was quite well made
and all that. I think it might even be over
two nights and all the everybody D expect was in the American.
It was a British thing. It was American comics in it as
well. Was it, was it sorry Tim?
Was it that 100 greatest lists that inspired Stuart Lee to name
one of his shows like 44th Oh? It may be.
Stand up ever or something? Oh, that, that may well be it.
Because he, he was. Yeah.
And of course, it's completely arbitrary, you know, because
obviously, but a lot of a lot of comedians have different styles
and it's very difficult to compare like a club stand up
with, you know, some slick, you know, theater, you know, it's
very chop cheese. But you know, everybody's just
bubbling along and they get people on and people will come
and see how good they are and all that there was and all of it
all. I can think the only ever
recognized 1. And I thought this was so weird.
One negative comment and the entire program and it was about
Bob Monkos. Right.
So Bob Monkos and he's quite high, you know, he's relatively
high up. You know, he's under the 30s or
40s or something, which it should have been far higher up
as far as I'm because a bit OK, you know, it's it was about a
day perhaps at the time, but and the guy who said it was negative
about him. I'm sure it's that guy.
It plays Shirley Ghostman. Do you know?
That place who? Shirley Ghostman, you know the
fake, you know the comedy, you know the fake medium.
I don't know. And he was in a 15 story sign
things like he's a character actor.
OK. I've dumped against him.
I mean, you know, meddling character actor, like at 50
stories high, he was the he was trying to, he was the guy and
you know, Sean Locke's. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, he was the guy in the bedroom.
He was trying to record relaxation tape and kept on
screaming that his family whenever they made any noise.
Right. Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You carry on talking.
Just yeah. So anyway, you know what?
Some Bob Marcus comes around and the people are saying, oh, Bob
Marcus, you know, he was gay and he did so much for his, you
know, he's so clever and he produced all his own material
and all that sort of thing. And then this guy crops up and
says, I think he's disgusted, like a cheap gag man.
Like he was included in a list like this.
Oh, piss off. Yeah, wait a minute.
Why was that left then? You know what I mean?
It's Mark Wooten, by the way. There you go.
Who I Yeah, I remember him now from 15 Stories, but also
probably best known for being in the That Nativity film series
that my kids used to watch. Oh, she's a suffering fog.
Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, I just thought
it was so. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure lots of people made
negative comments about other people because Bernard was on
it. Bernard was Benavann was in the
list and the comments about him were negative.
They were sort of more like sort of sad.
Wasn't Bernard's last TV appearance him being filmed in
his house and he's just sat there in his underpants and.
That was that was in that Entertainer series, remember,
and they went to Brittany. Clifton.
Because Frank Carson was there and Frank and it was it was
you've done that just to just to shock people because it was a
lovely man. He really was.
He was a lovely man and they but you know, he knew what people
thought of him. So he used to act up and he
didn't care anymore, you know. But anyway, I've never turned
out to be a man's defender, although he was a phenomenally
good stop. Stand up.
Give us. Another number. 28.
OK. This is very interesting because
it actually ties in with kind of with what we've just been
talking about. Racism discussed, right Do.
You remember about 20 odd years ago the BBC did that best
British sitcom. Ah, Christ.
Yeah, yeah. And and I've got the top ten as
voted for by the public. And I want to just ask you what
your thoughts are. But it's like pressed me off
even at the time. Yeah, I mean.
Go and then. OK, so in reverse order, so #10
one foot in the grave. Should definitely should be.
Yeah, should be higher, should be higher #9 the good life.
No. #8 Open All Hours. Yeah, but #8 a bit generous. #7
Porridge. Yeah, Yeah.
That's that's about right, yeah. We're up to number six.
Yes, Minister. Yes, Prime Minister.
Yep, that is, Yep. #5 Fawlty Towers #4 Dad's Army.
No, that is way too high. #3 brace yourself.
Go on. The Vicar of Dibley.
I was going to say it's the Vicar of Dibley in it.
No. Get to no, no.
So any get? So we got the last, we got the
final two. Yeah, well, there's certainly #1
is going to be on the frozen horses.
Yeah, yeah. Spare me. #2.
Number 20, it's going to be Absolutely Fabulous in it.
I didn't know you cared. What?
Only joking, Black Anna. Oh, right.
I heard that about it. It's like, that's me over there.
Black Hat is very sweeping, isn't it?
It's very sweeping to say 4 different series of Black Hat
considering how different they were because because all four of
them are, they're not equal that are not equivalent.
Well, that's interesting you say that because I happened to watch
the other night, literally 2 nights ago.
I was, you know, when you just, I can't settle on what to watch.
Yeah. And I had the Blu-ray.
I bought the Blu-ray of Black Hatters last year or whatever,
all right, and I hadn't watched. I mean, I've watched them all.
I mean, my favorite series is the second series, but I'm very
fond of the first series. But anyway, but I thought I'll
give them the fourth series ago. And I put on the episode where
it's the Charlie Chaplin Black Hat is down on Charlie Chapman.
Chapman and Malchard falls in love with George, who's dressed
as a woman. Do you remember the?
Moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I just thought, and I know this, this has become a truism,
but every other line was a he's as such and such as a such and
such. Yeah.
And there's always he's, as you
know, he's as thin as a thin thing.
You know what, he's just thin as the greatest thin thing that
everybody thin never saw. All right, well done Ben A .8
No, I the the 4th series I really don't have any time for
because I think it's it's in my view, it's a bit like the second
series of the office. It's bought in it, but that, but
the time it's on, it's bought into its own mythology.
Yeah. So you make the first series or
you make the earliest series and then you make it and you know,
people react to and that's great.
But then what happens is with as time progresses, in my view,
time progresses and then it spends over into the public and
then certain things are picked up.
Then they spend back at the the producer, the people who make
it, and that's what they make it about.
So by the time you get to the four series of black ads all
cut, so cunning plans and man, you know, and all that, that,
and that's all it is. Yeah.
And then bizarrely, it's it's it's also see the sort of
unpatriotic because it's or just somehow it's it's wicked because
it's about the First World War. What and how could you be so
awful not to? It's so odd, but I just don't
think it's terribly good. Whereas my personal favorite and
I I like the fact that people like the first, you know,
different, you know, whichever one they like.
My my personal favorite is the third series is black under the
thumb, which interesting is just the mains.
And I have a tradition that any election night I always watch
the the election night. Oh, with Ivor Biggin.
With Vincent Hannah. Yeah, Vincent Hannah.
Brilliant. He's so great.
He was such a such a loss, so young.
But you know, good evening, Your Highness and good evening,
Colin. He's so great.
My favorite from that series was with Kenneth Connor and Hugh
Paddock as the actors. Oh yeah, yeah, that's why also
why also like as in having people like Kenneth Connery
Hubert again, it. Yeah.
You know, which is which is what I love and was one of the
reasons that I love French and Saunders because, you know,
people like to, you know, they have this reputation of they
used to have the reputation certainly of being, you know,
alternative comedy and it's all very different as well.
But actually almost the first opportunity they started getting
people like Russ Conway, you know, when they always admit the
almost the minute they could, they started getting you like
old school comedy people because they're good at comedy.
Yeah, which is what I love. But anyway, back to the list.
The good life. I mean, I don't hate the good
life. Pushing is pushing that as a
cobbler comedy. It's sort of placed.
One of those things was like, I bomb, you know?
It's like, oh, it's the good life.
It's fine. I can sit in that.
Well, I do it, you know, I could do the touches and so on.
Nobody's going to laugh out loud.
Obviously the best people in are collating to the Penelope Keith,
you know, And it's fine. It's fine.
It's not doing anybody any harm. Juba, is it?
It's sitcoms, a very strange thing.
But you know, British sitcoms are very strange thing.
There are no, I mean, what I thought, should we mention this
was before that. I can't think of a single sitcom
that's being made just now. I mean, not going out makes
still beyond. Ghosts was the most recent I can
think. Of Ghosts, right?
Well, Ghosts is an exception, I'll give you that because it's
phenomenally good. But you know, but in terms of
like, you know, like a studio bound on tape sitcom where
people walk in and walk out and you know, they're not, they're
just not made anymore. It's too expensive, I suppose,
although I don't really know, everything's too expensive.
They must make have to make something.
But I suppose it's easier to make, you know, Veera and then
sell it to Singapore or something.
I don't know, or sell it abroad. So there are no circle.
But however, you forget that there used to be hundreds of
cycle. So what what's most interesting
about these kind of lists? Who may, who decides what to
present to the public to vote on?
And of course, it's an office full of Ollies and Francesca's
who who just who just looked up, you know, lists online or 20
years ago, look up lists in China or something.
Whereas funnily enough, I've just been going through it
because YouTube's a great repository for forgotten sitcoms
and I was watching some from the 70s that, you know, that
probably never, like probably didn't make a same series or set
or they might have done. For all I know there might be 10
series, but there was like one, for example, called no, I'll get
picked up by this, but people who actually know these things,
I think it was called Inside George Webley or Inside George
Weber Webley is funny. And so I watched one episode,
the episode that's there, and it's Roy.
That's. Not that bad, no the way.
Oh God that's terrible, is the fellow source.
And died. Broy can hear.
Roy can hear. Sorry, it's Roy can Hear and
Patsy Rollins. Of course, of course.
There's of course, there's almost nobody else in it and
he's just like, he's just a man who goes in the pub and you
know, some of the bargain. But the Sunday morning of Sunday
afternoon and the old cordure behind the bar says somebody's
just dropped dead. You know, he's dead for sure.
He decides to get you know what's the only this.
The startling thing about it was he goes to the local gym to.
Roy, HUD. And it's Roy HUD Sweat the thing
really camp. I've seen it.
Have you seen that he has stumbled across it?
No, nobody's, I mean that just disappears under the ether
because they were quite disposable, because they used to
make a few every every company, every ITV company probably made
two or three different sitcoms a year.
So they're not made to last, you know, they're just made in
chocolate shelf. So that the the idea of making
the great sitcom never, I'm sure it never cut to anybody.
But we we watched them, certainly seen that.
I couldn't remember what it was called inside George Webley or
whatever it is, but I remember saying that he had a Kinnear had
a one series sitcom, I think in the late 70s called The
Clairvoyant, I think. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But it's completely forgotten.
We've been watching as well. I say we friends, and I've been
watching. I don't know if I mentioned this
to you before. Have you heard of the last of
the baskets? Oh good, yes, with the with the
Arthur Law. Arthur Law as a Butler.
Oh no, don't tell me. It's Arthur Law and oh God, who
pleased the mum. I'm going to kick myself because
it's really obvious. I'm just, I can't thank you to
tell me I've got. Oh no, it's.
Pat Hayes. Obviously, it's Patricia.
I was going to actually going to say I really handle or.
If if wet. Patricia Hayes.
If I really handle can't be asked.
Yeah. Patra Hayes.
Right and and as the the newly installed Lord of the Manor.
Yeah. Can you remember?
Because and and this won't be giving anything anything away to
listeners, but think of your e-mail address.
Always Ken Jones that's right that's right so I'm funnily
enough that's another one in this set called watching mode
that I've been in I've watched an episode of last of the
baskets and it was a random 1. So there was no set up.
So as I watched them like what is going to what is going on
here? Eventually I realized after lose
the the old retainer Butler who's showing, you know, and
it's Beverly Hillbillies kind of.
Yes. You know, so yeah, you know, and
again, it's it's like, you know, just another sitcom, you know,
one of maybe 10 or 15 or 20 that year.
And if those have to do this fight is self subsaled and
everybody's happy. But these are the point of
making as these are never going to be even you're on a list for
anybody to think nobody's going to think.
Don't forget to put the wackers on, you know, don't mess because
that would, you know, people are going spear.
Yeah. And so that's a very, the lists
are a very, you know, obvious, obvious ones.
And you know, for example, in that top ten, it's outrageous
that rising damp isn't in the top 10 because that is way
better than The Good Life. I mean, that's it's ridiculous.
Would you, you know, if you if you asked any sane person, she
want to watch an episode of the good life where they have to
mind that about a goal? Or do you want to watch?
Do you want to watch the rising damp episode with forces Python?
What do you go? Do you see?
I put in the garden? Put in the garden, you stupid
cow. But the point is this, the
select the thing that bothers me because they, as I said, they're
completely arbitrary. It's the it's the selection for
people to vote on that kind of annoys me the most because as
you know, I am the world's last and most prominent champion of
nearest and dearest. Oh yes.
Which I think, which I think at the top Care who argues about
me, I think is one of the best sitcoms ever made.
But it's never it's never going to be even included.
And it's just pure snobbery because they don't make any
concessions to language. You know, the and it's and it's,
you know, overtly provincial as they love to see in as London.
But how do episodes of it written by like, you know,
George Layton and Jonathan Lennon and and, you know, people
like that. It wasn't, you know, without
talented input, all the folks in the horses just sort of having
their ankles. And I know people are going.
It's obviously the best. The thing that bothered me, but
only if it was the horses. It just became a soap opera.
Yeah, it did. And it.
Became so, yeah, it just became a sort of A and when it went
along, it was like John Sullivan's, you know, weekly
tragic, tragicomic play, just a second, you know, you know, in
the end. Yeah, that's right.
So it was like, well, right, whatever.
Nearest and dearest? I've got the list.
The full top 100 or the full 100 as voted for in 2003.
I think it was nearest and dearest #82. #82 must have on
our postcards anyway, as you say, they're just sort of all,
kind of all subjective. But it gets the leak of these.
It's like the Satan sound film list, you know, like, oh, you
can argue about whether Citizen Kane's number one this year or
not, but you know, it becomes it becomes a board because all the
folks are always going to get voted number one.
But actually, if there is a number one, it really should be
1 foot in the grave. Yeah.
Because Faulty Towers is like a great comedy.
I mean, it's a genuinely great comedy, but you know, there's
only 12 episodes. You know, only one foot.
The grief was immense from the first episode to the last
episode. What, like 10 years?
Exactly 10 years. Yeah, it.
Was absolutely and when you watch it back, I think I'm
trying to say it's all on the iPlayer, but it.
Was it was I think it's literally just been taken off
this week. It's.
A shame, because when you go back and just pick any random
episodes, it's just fantastic. Yeah, you know that.
And if you're lucky, Mrs. War Boys, you'll be in it, you know?
My favorite is the man who blew away with Ryan Murphy.
Oh. Yeah, that's Mr. Foskett.
It's just so funny. It's like when you open the door
in the living room. I just did enormous photograph,
like 10 foot by 10 foot photograph.
What? About when?
Which they don't reference till about halfway through the
program. What about when Mrs. Moore Boy's
ghost agrees to go and pick up his dry cleaning?
Brings back a monkey suit. Oh, it's just so great.
The only thing I didn't like about, not like it's it's too
strong. The thing that rankled a little
bit with that show, no, let me say, the character that rangled,
shall we say, was Patrick Angus Data.
Because he was just irrationally, he had this
irrational hatred. Yeah.
I mean, I suppose the idea was supposed to be that he was just
sort of I'd reasonably driven up the ball by vector, but I'm not
sure that came across as it came across as a preg.
The other thing was that they would do that, you know, every
now and again, which bothers me because that's back-to-back out
as it was forth as well. When they do this, but you know
you're laughing along ever this happened.
Then suddenly they'll Chuck in, you know, some terrible and you
know, like when Gene de vets kid has a crash and loses a baby.
Oh yeah. And you're like, oh, OK, yeah.
Meanwhile, next door, the the street lights been pushed
through the wet. This is sodium light over the
double break. The first time I ever saw one
from the grave was this. Was it the third series?
I was living in Belfast and it was the episode where Margaret
goes missing. So there is, there is some, yes,
sort of dramatic tension, but it climaxes, shall we say, with
Victor being on the ground, being dry humped by a
chimpanzee. I suppose maybe the reason
Patrick doesn't work all the time is because it's it's a,
it's Annette Crosby's job to be furious with Victor.
Yeah. There's that great episode where
he's suddenly all the way through, he's so happy and nice,
nothing bothers him. And she's looking at my scam.
And he says, you know, what is it?
How you do again? And he says he goes to this
massage therapy and a woman, a woman just manipulates his feet
and he comes away all feeling all relaxed and tickety.
And then the women and the people and women's get raised
because she'd been rubbing a nipple.
Sort of. Politicians, yeah.
So yeah, we could spend all night just.
You could spend all night. OK, OK.
You are another number. Give us another number.
I spend the wheel double 11 okey dokey.
Oh OK, who? Who was the 5th goon?
If we take, if we, well, if we,
if we, if we take, take it for granted.
You've got sellers seeking Milligan and and Benteen.
Who was the 5th. Oh God.
But in my estimate, but this is just sort of thing we are
setting up because people are going to go spear if I don't see
the hate part of the gallery that it could be, you know, Pat
Dixon or Larry Stevens or, you know, a Wallace Greenslade.
See, I'm thinking. I'd say Wallace personally.
But then you can argue what? Yeah, but Ray Ray often plays a
number of roles in the. But not but not very often.
Whereas no, when I say Wallace Greensley's done it almost
entirely. Well, he, well, he's got his own
episode, isn't he? He did, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. I I So I'd, I'd say probably
Wallace Greensley. OK.
That's that one. I wish that funnily enough I was
just watching. I'd be working a project about
the the 40th anniversary is coming up right through the
witnesses going out. I hate to build back the cotton,
but this isn't live. But anyway, it's a worker
project because on the 40th anniversary of the passing of
the great Tony MacLeod, who was, you know, people might remember
as the hefty presenter of Pebble Mill at One and Saturday Night
of the Mill. Yeah, OK.
So he he passed away 40 years ago.
I don't know. Right.
And the, the, the I was something rooting around old
episodes and I found, I think it was actually the first episode
of Saturday Night at the Mill and Michael Benton was on.
It. I need and it's all these sort
of silly say gags and things and it comes on and it comes on
feeling because for the uninitiated amongst you, Pebble
Mill was was the BBC building and Birmingham and Pebble Bill
at one was a lunch time program. Saturday night to the Mill was
the Saturday Night Live. They both live and they were
both presented from effectively the porch of the building
because they're big glass. The the surrounders big glass
round. So it was a it was programs made
even though there were millions of pounds worth of studios.
They made them in the foyer of the building to great effect and
Saturday night to the bell payable incomes on B comes
through. He comes trundling across the
year the foyer pushing a gas cooker and and he says that he'd
be Donny back. Donny B says, say, what have you
been up to? This is, well, I'll be staying
at this hotel nearby. You know, we don't leave the
continental breakfast, all that. So I've produced the an instant,
but the instant British breakfast.
And he's got a sort of cardboard box that's all straight that
says British breakfast. And it takes out a tiny little
tree. It's very, very big team.
It's like so a tiny little tea tree with a tiny little tea set
on it and a little plate with egg and sausage peak and a
little people the times. Absolutely.
And he says, well this is what you do.
You just add some water. So they pour some water onto it
and he says you just put it in the oven and he puts it in the
oven and as it closes the door, the back of it blows off.
There's a huge explosion which is clearly way bigger than
anybody's blood and there's more so much smoke that they can
barely see each other. And he opens the oven again.
Of course, I'd say that as a full size replica of what the
small ones are replica, but a full size breakfast.
They said then you go, but you can't be able to see it and they
have to hurry up to the other side is fantastic.
So hey, anyway, let's say. And so it's just just because
deadly. It's just textbook painting.
ADA has a whole, it has another routine to do with plants, which
I I mean, it was that is very funny, but would absolutely defy
description. You genuinely, you generally
have to watch it and I don't think it would be funny if
anybody else did it. Which is, again, entirely
Michael Benteen. Absolutely.
But Donnie B is with this sort of best.
He was a great, a great presenter and a great guy, Very
funny, but not one of the goods. And one of the other guests on
Saturday night to the village leadership, which you just
watched, was was Milligan. He was he was there because they
were, you know, like they didn't really have very many guests,
two or three a program. So there's like a 20 minute
chat. And he's then one of his
slightly reticent moods, you know, So, you know.
Yeah. And I can tell it's because when
he's introduced, they bring up the goods, you know, and thanks.
And he's probably annoyed about that, although we never seemed
to remember. That's why anybody knew who he
was. I've been I've been watching a
load of Parkinson's from the 70s and early 80s.
Oh yeah. And I got access to a load of
and you could sort of cherry pick the ones I wanted to watch.
Yep. And obviously there was that
must have been about 7:00 or 8:00.
Well, maybe not so many. Maybe 6 Milligan interviews
ranging from, I don't know, 74 to 1980 or something.
I don't know. We're on on his own as well as
his company. Right.
Oh no, no, no, sorry. They all with you know, he was
like the 3rd guest or whatever sure and yeah most of them he
was on good form yeah top form. You know he's in top form when
he's crying, laughing when he's, when he's, you know what I mean,
When he's. Yeah, yeah.
When he completely loses it, yeah.
But the one thing they all had, I think all of them had in
common was so Park, he's interviewed the first two guests
or whatever. So he's got Twiggy and he's got,
I don't know, the Archbishop of Canterbury or whatever.
And then and then he's, and then he, he turns to the cabaret and
he's about to announce Spike. So he's, you know, he goes
begins a little and always you could hear Spike in the wings
shouting. He can't hear what he's
shouting, but he's he's. Shouting something?
I don't know trying to drown out Paki or I'm not quite sure but
he's. Yeah, he's, and that's what
he's, he's sort of a hots up because Donnie asks him about
his writing and things like that.
So he's a bit more engaged. But it always makes it.
Yeah, but always a slightly on tenterhooks when he's when you
watch an interview with them because when he's not into it's,
it can be really bad, you know, especially back then when I
would be like, you know, I'd make such an effort to watch
anything that he was on and it would be a real let down if he
was in the huff. Oh.
Yeah. You know you didn't fail.
You were cheated, you know. I watched an episode of Do You
Remember Plunder? Yes, did.
Yes. Emma Freud.
Yeah, take your favorite programs.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then she interviewed Milligan, I think it was from
1990. Right.
And the first clip he picked was, what's the name that?
Is it Erica Rowe that streaked topless?
Yeah. Was it the cricket or something?
Yeah, you know what I mean. So his first clip that he
requested was that clip of her. His final clip.
Oh no. Was Erica Rogue again I remember
watching when I was when I was when I was about 50.
What age would I be? 1516, my first trip to London
before I came over in the early 90s, you know, permanently.
First trip to London is 89 so I would have been 15 and I think
it was that trip. Maybe I'm confusing it, but I
remember watching I Was Desperate to Watch a Jonathan
Ross interview. That's right.
With Spike Milligan. Yeah, he did one with him.
He did one with Frankie Howard. Yeah, it was.
It was a pretty sure it was Easter 91.
Well, what that OK Well that was when I was living in Belfast and
right, because I remember my elder cousins were were there
and watching as well my two my 2 elder cousins who and and I
really was keen to watch this, this interview with Milligan.
Yeah. Jonathan Ross.
Yeah, but it's one of those where he was just.
Yeah, he was not into Sal and it was and it was like an hour
long. Yeah, and I could just, you
know, when you just feel. I just wish there was no one
else in the room watching this with me.
Yeah, I know because you're like, you're like, oh, this is
so you're in. Yeah, he's my hero and he's
just. Yeah, yeah, I tell you, I tell
you why. I'm pretty sure.
I mean that maybe I make the one that was made many mash up
things here, but that that particularly Easter.
So I was 15, we had just bought a cafe.
The circumstances are complicated, but not as
complicated as they go believe. And we bought this thing and
then and Millport was a little island just off the West Coast
and we were taking over in May. And I was sent as an advance
party to walk in it for the weekend because when you're the
people that order nice all the time, we couple who were fleeced
us. And I was sent as a sort of
advance party to see, you know, what it was like.
Yeah, you know, good. Mom and dad were busy and all
that. So and I was thrilled to be a
load away weekend myself. We should never happen before,
even though I was working and I stayed in that.
So I had to stay in a guest house.
It was Easter weekend and back then early 90s, even places like
Milford were still really busy in the, in the, in the season,
you know, not, you know, just, well, not after, not after we
bought the place, but at the time they were still really
busy. So Easter weekend was even.
So I had to stay and effectively somebody's house, they had that
like a granny flat that they said was a Big Breakfast they
had. They were also bred golden
retrievers. So I shared the room with four
golden retrievers. OK.
And anyway there were another couple staying in another little
bit so it was a very odd sale up just sort of semi detached
council house. And I'm finished walking in the
Cafe, got home his knackered and then sat in this little sitting
room that they had for the guests with these this young
couple from Newcastle I think. And they said they didn't care
what was on the tail because they were going to go out.
And I did exactly the same thing.
I made a big plot for us, I mean one to watch this now it was
either on Easter Sunday or the next day, the Bank Holiday
Monday because they think they were back-to-back right.
Yeah, you know, it's I'm sitting there with like 2 dogs on top of
me and, you know, at least this couple was sitting next to me
see, you know, and they were given me the hearts like I mean,
this is the world's strongest man on Yeah, and I'm sitting
thinking, oh, he's going to it. Surely he'll get there.
And I did that. They were.
I didn't want to give up and I didn't want to even get met, you
know, after the first part and go actually just wipe it
something else going because that isn't funny.
But anyway I slow. Holding out.
You're holding out for him to suddenly shake off his mood and
suddenly become and. The one better for some reason,
as he said is Jonathan Ross system about Harry Secombe and
he's and he says that because obviously Harry Secombe was in
this highway period by then. Yeah.
And Jonathan Ross says, you know, was he really, you know,
what was he like? That was really funny and seems
odd, but, and he said that and and Melligan said, Oh yes, it
was quite funny back then, but as now he's just all I walk with
God and he did nothing. And I thought, well, that's not
very gracious. I have to be honest.
No, And it was a, it was a bit of a, it was a, it was a bit of
a stretch, unlike the Frankie Howard one, which was fantastic
because he was absolutely on top form, even though he I think he,
I think he died not actually that long after.
It Yeah, it would have been because it was.
Yeah. What was that?
June 91, maybe? Yeah.
Same weekend as Benny. Same weekend has been hell yeah
yeah, yeah, he's covered Benny Hell so yeah, the Frankie Howard
one was actually a lot better because he was just because he
was just doing this all because by that time and Frankie Howard
just had to do is you know, as the Schleck and everybody laptop
because he he was somebody who was on a perennial comeback.
He came back every two or three years.
Frankie Howard. Yeah, that's right.
Just because he was so just because he was so good.
Yep. Are you enjoying this random?
I know I I am. Yeah.
Because you know, you know me.
Like Goodwin. I'll talk to anybody back.
OK, there's another number. There's another.
Number settle down now 3. Oh OK OK this is a good one.
Potentially off screen characters in comedy.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Referred to but never seen. Mrs. Mannering and people.
Yeah, so I'm thinking Clarence in LOLO, who drives with
Lieutenant Gruber's tank. My little tank guy signer, that
was great. Yeah, yeah.
What I get well done? Oh yeah, that was great.
Yeah, it was great. It was great.
So, Mrs. Mannering, it's always disappointing when they, if they
ever actually try and bring them in, you know, if they appear,
you know, they never did that with her.
But I. Suppose it's stretching it a
bit, but alpha dailies misses. Alpha dailies misses.
Fletcher's misses, although you see her once.
Oh, do you? Yeah, there's a, there's a,
there's a an episode of porridge when it gets a load out on
compassionate grounds. OK.
And he goes home and he's, you know, he's meant to be a good at
a funeral or something and she's there, which kind of blows it,
you know, trying. To think what was some Sybil's
best friend called in Fawlty Towers that she's always on the
phone to but you never see it. Oh God, that's right.
But does she know appear at the Audrey, Audrey, Audrey.
But does Audrey not come to the maybe the anniversary episode?
Yeah, I don't know if with Ken Campbell, with Ken Campbell, she
may well be one of those of. Ken Campbell, do you know you
love people who you just like? If you, even when you just
remember them, they make you happy.
Ken Campbell's like that. You're like, oh, I remember when
Ken Campbell used to bury. It was great.
Thank you. You talked at length about King
Campbell. I did, yeah.
So I I Shan, I Shan. We'll go over all that again.
If I could do this memory just as.
Oh, gods. Right.
Let's think of some other ones then.
Oh, of course, they're getting back to 1 foot in the grave, Mr.
Sweeney's mother. Mr. Sweeney's mother and they'll
be terrible. Oh, tell me another one is well,
where this is a bit more obscure, the again forgotten
sitcom, which is a favorite language is Dear Ladies.
Oh, who's the name? Is that engine bracket?
Or the engine bracket sitcom. Yeah.
Yeah, OK. No, again, no, although there
are bets that do make me laugh out loud.
I just like being in 100 brackets company.
I just like it. Just I find it fun and I like
the silly nonsense and I like the the Little Joe.
Yeah, just like the whole sale. But it pleases me, you know, in
that wave where you're like, no, in that terrible last the summer
wind wave. But it's just like, it's the
equivalent of the of Malcolm MacDowell at the end of a Colt
Maconage. You like you're well, fucking
like this. It's just that anyway, I just
like it. And there's a running joke in it
where whatever they need an answer to a question, they'll
phone Teddy. Who's the town clerk, Right.
Hello, Teddy. You know, So it's like the
phone. Hello, Teddy.
Yes. So you never see Teddy, But is
his wife Peggy, who's always had some awful accident, like a
skydiving accident or has fallen off the church roof or
something, which is a sort of running joke and is a is a very
is a very nicely kept all scripted by James Bradworth.
Really. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
OK, another number. A weapon. 3 days.
Let's have another number 16. OK dear, in your opinion, in
your opinion, in your opinion the single greatest bit in a
Carry On film? The single greatest bit in a
carry on. Scene or line or.
Oh wow, just. When someone says carry on, it's
the thing that it's your go to, kind of.
Right, memory. Well, there's a.
Obviously, there's more than one.
Yeah. The stupid what is one of them
from Carry on Abroad. This is Mr. Fucky House.
He says this. My name is Stuart Farquhar.
It's a stupid What says a great line, Henry, this Mr. Fucky
House and then Carry On Your Convenience has a few of them
especially Hello, Bobby. But the one that we used to do
is I used to watch that with friends of Rose the caravan in
Millport in the summer all the time.
And the thing that made us laugh the most was said James.
But TA daddy, TA daddy mostly there once was a farmer called
Red who went with a girl in the hedge.
They along came his wife with a big cover knife and cut off has
been too veggie. There's a good few in there.
Also, of course, there's the fuck here off and things like
that. But actually my favorite scene
and carry on up the kyber. The, the, the, the, the, I said
something the best you could carry out the kyber.
It's Peter Butterworth when you, when they're in the prison cell
and he's, I'm not putting up with this anymore.
And he says I'm, I'm, I'm a missionary.
I should be involved in this sort of thing.
And he goes to the, he goes to the, the little sail window with
the bath and he says, let me help you.
I'm a missionary, I shouldn't be here.
And the, and the guy comes to the, you know, the guy with the
tournament, what comes to the thing?
And he says, what do you want, pig?
That's Mexican and he's he's got all black teeth and he says I
was going to ask for the name of a good dentist.
I don't think I'll bother. But one of the other ones I like
is Carry On Loving because it has the best, one of the best
things that you can get in the Carry On film, which is when Sid
and Hattie are a couple. So that's the that's your dream
team. As inconvenience as well.
Yeah, that's why it's because it's so funny because Sid and
Barb's is just kind of tired, but Sid and hearty is just it's
just that's still great together.
And there are there are lots of excuse me, there are lots of
moments in there and and carry on.
They carry on loving. But more again, what you know,
there's the Kenneth Bell Williams stuffed with Patsy
Rollins and other enemy. Which which?
What was the last great Carry On film in your opinion?
Oh God. Not even great, just just just
how decent, Yeah. I mean, the, the, the bad ones
are terrible, you know, and I knew I was barely a film.
England is. Dreadful England is
embarrassing. It's so bad, I suppose.
Carry on behind's OK, isn't it? Cattle behind OK, because it's
got some good laughs in it, you know, because the whole Kenneth
Williams and what is I was going to say OK summers, but it
obviously is not. Is it OK summer thing cool.
My brain was telling me don't be ridiculous.
It's not. I could possibly because that
whole setup is is very funny. I'd be a buffer.
Really funny in it as well. Saint James also has the best
character name of any character I think in the the carry on
films and carry on Matron. Oh go on because of course you
people are forgetting. Is it captures Carry on Matron
where it starts in the jungle? Is it carry on Matron or is that
the one where they steal the pills?
That's the one where they steal the steal the pill.
So it's different, but it's the it's the one where Jim Dale
goes. He's got a secret formula and he
goes to whether anyway. So it's.
Again. Is that again, Doctor?
Carry on again, Doctor. But of course, The thing is, as
I say, it starts out in the chunk or in the tropics anyway
with said James are the sort of he's the weather blowing person
who's been there for. Years.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, and he's called Gladstone.
Screw. I remember Phil Norman.
The place TV cream film when we used when I used to do the the
films at Christmas with them and I can't remember what the
conceit was. He came up, but it was for the
film and the, the, the, the whatever any action figures
films. So we never had so we never had
composable Gladstone. Oh dear, There we go.
Anyway, should we have another number?
Go on. What's the meeting over?
No, no, Yeah, that's fine. That's.
See that like a normal #2024? 24 Oh, OK.
Oh. Do you have a favorite comedy
LP? Do you have a favorite comedy
LP? Wow.
You know, it's not something that I've.
I've had very many of comedy LP's because I never had really
the record player. Well, I'll accept tapes.
You know, but yeah, but you know how like when you talk about
comedy, LP's, the famous ones that all the sort of a, you
know, Rector Pryor and Lady Bruce know these things, you
know, and people like just sort of wank over all these 70.
It's not. But leaving the same Mcgunshaw
tapes. I remember I used to buy those a
compilations of like Milligan and Sailors and things like
that. Yeah.
There was a big there was a bent in one as well, but I was mostly
baffling. But there was a sailor.
There was a sailors one that I had.
I made the obviously made the mistake of lending.
The subject was a double tape. Was it yellow?
Yellow cover. That's the one.
And it was picked in the photo on the front.
Was him dressed as a like a teacher or headmaster?
Yeah, yeah, that was taken from the TV show The Idiot Weekly
Price. Oh, yeah.
Oh, that makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah, I know exactly the the senior, I mean.
So there was a mixture of songs and and and bets and I love, I
love that album. I really loved it.
Yeah. And I memorized everything on
it, you know, so I could do all the, I could sing you all the
any old iron and bangers and mash and all that sort of stuff.
And good. This teachers meet everything
with troubling, troubling cadence.
And then the, and the excerpts of, you know, Balaam, gateway to
the South and all that sort of thing.
Yes. And the, you know, the, the, the
touch of the hard stuff and all that which, and I just
absolutely loved that I listened to over and over again.
In fact, I, when I, when I lived in Millport, when I said we
moved there for about a year, I was, even though I would lived
in on an actual island off the coast, I used to get, I still
would stay to the same school in Glasgow.
So I used to get up at 6:00 in the morning and get a bus to the
ferry and get the ferry. They got trained at Glasgow.
They get a bus outside of Glasgow to go to school every
day back, so I had a lot of time on the train on the bus.
So I had a you know, a Walkman can affect a cheaper Walkman.
Yeah. A low grade Walkman and I used
to, I just listened to backwards and forwards all the time, all
the time until I got to like 50 and they'd start to listen.
They feed no more all the time things developed beyond not just
about musical taste, but that was I'd say that that even in
terms of duration never listen did as much as that.
I have AI got for Christmas a few years ago like when you
still got CDs. I got a CD of Frankie Howard.
I think it was I think it's actually his establishment.
Oh yeah, they are great. They're very atmospheric as
well. But I think that maybe not
enough. There may be some TW 3 on it as
well. But Frankie Howard was such an
amazing comedian. It really was.
How do you, I don't know, you know, that way when you see
certain comedians, you think, how did you start?
You know, how did you get people to listen to you to begin with?
Because it's so unusual. Yeah, yeah.
How did you get past that first stage?
Because he. Did he?
Did he, did he do the windmill early on?
Do you know? I don't.
I don't think he did the windmill.
Frankie Howard No. Probably because when he went
out for his audition and Vivian Van Damme sat in the stalls.
Where. Yeah.
He'd be like, oh, oh, oh. You know, stuttering and
hesitating and he's probably. Get off.
Yeah, it's.
Like you say, I don't know how he how he'd pass any sort of
audition. But I suppose because from what
I call, from what I seem to recall, he basically just went
from trip shows and next minute you saw a variety of bad books
because he was back really early.
Yeah, he was. Probably 46.
He was doing bad books. So, you know, I, I, I, I don't
know what the bridge was. You know, maybe he just was
doing the Alexander Club or something.
I don't know, but it'd be very difficult to see to, to imagine
schlepping around, you know, drinking clubs or certainly not
working men's clubs, going to our misses, you know, and you
find out a lot of that stuff he didn't even do then, you know,
because he hadn't developed that sort, you know.
But he wasn't, he wasn't a great improviser, was he?
I believe he. Oh yeah, it was all scripted.
Yeah, it was awesome. Although I've seen him on doing
interviews, but he's been very sharp, you know, come away with
some some good lines, but but I can't imagine he would improvise
his way along the stage. You know he's when you when you
see that panorama of or omnipus rather panorama.
Although although of course when they do these biopics of them,
it would be, if you believe them, it would be a panorama.
It would be, yeah. Oh.
God, I hated all of those things, You know, The, the, the.
Step 2. Oh, I hated them.
I hated them all and the Frankie I heard one as well have really,
really bothered me because I was going to see with the album The
best thing you you see him at the start, you know he's walking
about, rehearsed his lines and you recognize it's actually the
lines for the Oxford Union gig. OK, Yeah.
But he's remembering, Yeah, I went to the airport.
That's where the areas, haha. That's where the areas.
But the, the, what's his name that breaks?
David Williams. Williams and so you're presented
with this portrayal of Frankie Howard so that, you know,
obviously, oh look, he's gay. Imagine.
And so he's being the main that he's not old.
You're totally in the 60s. So he's, you know, I don't know,
40 maybe. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and then so there's like young guys going about and he's
given them all, eating at them, obviously fucking we love them,
is what you do. Do you know what I mean?
That's not you don't want to, but that person goes good.
I mean, I don't know, but it's like nerdies.
But people actually do express the the desire for people in
certain ways. It doesn't make them perverse,
you know, in the same way that you have, you know, like
obviously that's a different harvest.
It's a different thing, but you have to be able to chat people
up on me, comments about them because you know, especially for
state, because the species has to survive.
That's true. But but if you know, it's the
idea that he was looking at these guys and will imagine,
look at what he's Fancy said. What's wrong with that?
There is nothing wrong with that, but it's presented as the
sort of a or look at the mucky side of them.
Just piss off. Yeah, I didn't say I didn't
watch the Frankie. On the the the 20 Hancock one we
can't stop was just I stole the time and miserable, which is
like, but you know, it's like, well, OK, Tony Hancock was drunk
and miserable a lot. Is that do we need to see that
portrayed on the telly? What does that tell us about not
very much trying to hire the most miserable actor in Scotland
to play him? I mean.
And then there was the well. Matt McManus was dead, so.
Imagine Mark McManus is uncle. That's fantastic.
At least my mother's gravy moved around, you know so.
And then there was the other one, the other rubbish one with
AI think it was Phil Davis was playing a so Phil Davis had
played. Yes, that.
Well, for a Bramble, yeah, yeah, Oh yeah, just secret homosexual,
but so fucking war, you know, so war.
And again, you know, I'd hate to be I do hate to be that that
guy, but they are, you know, where you pack up on everything
and complain about everyone. I'd be woke but walk nonsense.
But there's something very, you know, sort of a subtly whole
before because of these things. We are the the defining
characteristic of both Wilfred Bramble and Frankie Howard does
that they're gay and that they may actually like to get a bet
on the site of, you know what? So.
So what? They did the Huey Green one.
Maybe they did one with a bit Huey Green with Trevor Eve.
Yeah. I didn't say that.
No, but you've got that a wee bit both because Trevor just
believe there was a right bastard, which which you agreed
undoubtedly on. My, I know it wasn't part of the
those BBC Four. I don't know.
What kind? Of things, but you know the
Kenneth Williams one with Michael Shane.
That was the worst one. I can't.
Remember that? But was that full of was that
just focusing on his sexuality as well?
Yeah, it's fun to have you always.
So no, the problem with that is Mike wishing was excellent as as
Kenneth Williams. But it's all part of the
narrative of this. Look how measurable he was when
he was at home. All the loneliness and the
despair and how he hated everybody, which I just don't
believe is true. If there's a weird, there's a
weird thing we are people will accept that somebody like
Kenneth Williams can have different sides to them because
everybody has different sides of them.
So like he's very jolly and, and, or at least engaging when
he's out in public. So they'll accept that.
But the, but then they will say, but you know, he was, he was
very, and everybody knew. Everybody who knew him will say,
but he was very private and very quiet and he liked to live very
simply at home. So they're prepared to accept
that there's more than one say to him.
But The thing is then they say that what he's writing in the
diary must necessarily be the absolute truth of them instead
of what I believe what it is, which is just another side of
them rather than the definitive truth of them.
So when the diary was published, when the Diaries were published,
you had people like Golden Simpson to bring it back to them
saying, Oh, we'd no idea that you thought that's about us and
you know that he was so miserable and all that sort of
thing. But to be honest, and I don't
want to get too more Maukisha and about this, but if you spend
a lot of time on your Rd. I have been able very recently
and you do spend a lot of time when you do get very
introverted. And if you don't have contact
with people a, you know, a law and if you just genuinely do
have contact with people, you can't resentful and you say
stupid things to yourself. You know, when you're on it,
nobody cares and all that sort of thing, But you just see them.
Then you meet people and you're fine.
That's why people need to be kept in contact.
If you know anybody who lives alone, the list does.
So he just so he just writes it down.
But everybody believes this is the essence of them.
Well, yeah, because I was recently looking through them.
Yeah. Because I did the episode on of
getting put on hand of the Baskerville's the film that he
was in. Yeah, yeah.
And he, he actually enjoyed making that film.
And it comes across in the in the Diaries.
But although the thing you just, you just get, you know, 2-3
pages, you can flick through it random.
He'll he'll contradict himself. He'll say something on page 12
and then the complete opposite on page 18, you know?
Yeah, because. He because he's a person, he's
not a narrative. If people, people will have a
good day at work one day and a bad day at work the next day and
their opinion of people will change.
You know that that's what that's what happens to people.
Yeah, so it'd be like, I don't know, you know, on page 321, you
know, Kew Lloyd, he's absolutely wonderful.
Next page. That hack you Lloyd and never
when you work with him again, he's a disgrace and everybody
that he was rubbish. But you know, but transpose
somebody who just works in an office and somebody you know or
yourself or your partner or whatever.
And you know, in most days it's like you know enough enough.
On a one day of the week, I'm going to meet Janice and the
girls for a drink and then at the end of the week, because
things have gone badly. That bet Janice, I've never been
here again. And then the next week is like,
oh, what just a waging to go for a week away weekend away with
Janice. And that's life because a person
is a person and not a narrative that somebody has written.
So what? So what?
The reason I see all this is because when for Tabula was it
was presented, it took the Diaries as the absolute truth of
them so that everything and it had to be portrayed without any
other context. So if it's said that he was, you
know, really miserable and, you know, feeling like suicide or
whatever, or whatever he was saying at the time because he
did a bad day, that was what they focused on.
And it just it just wake me up. I think he knew damn well he, he
expected that the Diaries would be read and yeah, quite possibly
published because. He never asked for, he never
asked them for them to be destroyed.
No, but what I mean is that I there's there's sometimes you
read his Diaries and you think you've written that with a date
to the future. That's that's too cute that if
you know what I mean. It's that's too knowing because
there's a bit where he's watch, he's at home, late 60s.
He's watching the television and it's and it's basically it's an
interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono when they're doing the
Yeah, hidden or the bagging or one of.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
remember. Yeah.
But he's being wilfully ignorant and no one can be this ignorant.
Certainly not somebody in 1969 in Britain who's in show
business. Yeah, no, absolutely.
He said something wrong was I watched this terrible interview
with with a beetle and such and such.
I think it might be. Is he called Ringo Starr?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and then it just
continued to sort of like drip bile onto the page about how
disgraceful it always it just think, you know, for, you know,
dare well. But you know, that's what I
mean, because because my my strong feeling is that when he
was writing stuff like that, he was just being a Waspy bitch,
like going a man. And I don't even know that lie
goes out with the name as I don't even know.
But you know, I think that as you see in sometimes you'll meet
people and he loves them and sometimes you meet people that I
don't because he's you don't know what the code takes of the
rest of the day. Is.
It just baffles me that people will accept that somebody could
have different faces to the world, but somehow believe that
if you write it down, that must be the way they actually feel
instead of it just being another face to the world.
It just happens. That is one that's written down.
So, so when you come to make things like Fantabulosa, she's
very well made and like, which is very good as you know, as As
for a facsimile of them, but it doesn't get near them.
You know, you, there's never any sense of, of, of, of, of getting
built. You have to get, you always have
to get beyond the diary. Yeah.
See the person who's writing the diary and not just what it says
anyway you. Could you could learn a lot
about Kenneth Williams by listening to the entire Just a
Minute back catalogue? Oh yeah, yeah, you can do it
because. He lets things, he lets things
slip about his personal life that often, not often, but
occasionally, you know, in little bits here and there.
Sometimes you especially when he's does, when he's when he
became a talk show animal and sometimes depending on how,
because the theme is that I think the most telling one is
the Aspen company one with Laria sweat and Dennis Taylor, because
he's clearly not well. He's clearly visibly he's not
well. And he just launches into the
story about, you know, doesn't even wait to be honest.
And he just starts talking about going to, you know, getting his
barium meal and set up. Put your bum on.
Yeah. And he and he does that great
lane where they say you have a spastic colon, you know, as if I
come in your money. And Loretta is just like dying
with laughter. And you think this is because he
doesn't have anybody else to talk to.
You know, Louise, No, is losing it.
And, you know, he just friends are busy.
His always friends are younger. They're sort of busy people and
the the old, the people he has talked to are a chance you
audience and he gets a laugh. Everybody gets paid for him.
Whereas in other ones you just do anecdote, you know, the
theatrical anecdotes and all that sort of thing.
So you can you can tell a lot as you see just by just by watching
what he says on the tail, which is very lived.
But then at the same time, you'll go off and you'll record,
you know what, Jack and Audie, you know, and it's fantastic
because he's invested in that, you know, I just think he was a
more fascinating character than most people are prepared to
accept. And it's just, again, it's just
easy. It's not lazy slight cliche of
the lordly homosexual who's no partner, never found love and
are just just turn it in. I'm intrigued about what this
forthcoming, although I know it's a troubled it's been it's
had a troubled production, but this forthcoming biopic about
Brian Epstein, is it Midas man? Oh yeah, yeah.
It's it's due out imminently, I believe, right, But it's been
it's been kept kind of under wrap squad.
There's there's been a trailer released.
I think that I just kind of think it's inevitably going to
be focusing on, of course, the rough trade and all the rest of.
It of course, as yeah, and you know, every, every drama, even
though no matter what, you know, the, the, the people love to see
everything. So walking on big set, there's
not really very little changed a lot of ways because every drama
but anybody who's gay has to be tragic.
They're poor, lonely, live trapped in those or they would
just spear me. It's like that, you know, the,
the the the narrative that's existed for someone about Judy
Garland. You never know I was giving you
and there's Judy Garland that sold this sort of a oh, she was
ravaged by drinking drugs and she had a terrible wiping up.
You know, I remember somebody put that to somebody asked a
question of that to Vincent Price, who was quite a close
friend of Judy Garland's. And Vincent Price said, you
know, that she had a problem. She had been she she had a great
life. She loved the life, she loved it
and she loved drama and she loved, you know, be fading from,
you know, she loved being in the papers and, you know, she didn't
have a tragic life. She had a dramatic life.
That's a very different thing, you know, and people are they
just love to project themselves on to them and think, well, I
was, you know, it's imagine living like that.
It's all that sort of deal with as Katie Bowman to see that that
the middle class here. Some pitch starts here, Muriel.
So pitch starts. You can hardly speak here,
Muriel. Yeah, everybody's everybody
who's gay is tragic. Everybody who's a woman on their
own who's older must be must be lordly and desperate.
You know, ton to change the record.
You know, it's just, it's just so old.
When, when did the tide turn in terms of.
I mean, I I always say you'll maintain that among the first
positive representations of homosexuality on certainly the
the small screen. Yeah.
Well, I'm, I'm thinking in terms of comedy.
Yeah. Was agony.
More. Yeah.
Well, yeah, possibly, yeah. Yeah, because, I mean because.
I think Clarence and the Dick every shows a very positive.
Oh yeah. Personally.
True, I know your argument for that, yeah.
Yeah, there's a character who's never, who's never as tragic and
never as never as tragedy transported it looks like he's.
Saying that, Mister Humphries is constantly upbeat, more or less,
isn't he? He's never.
Well, he is, yeah. But they do that thing, they
give up with it, you know, where he's sort of at the end where
they try and make out that he's actually straight and all that.
Yeah, yeah. Which was a bit of a late down,
but yeah, it's Mr. Humphries most of the time is.
And you know what I really like about that, that the thing as
well is that it's the relationship he has with Mr.
Lucas. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We are with the pals and they work together, but just every
day, which is exactly what happens in the workplace.
I mean, you want the song looks like something straight.
You know what? He says there's a better kind of
man with the set up as he says I'll be behind Captain P got his
and and Miss Obviously I'll be behind Mr. Lucas.
He says no, I'd rather I was behind Mr. Yeah, and it's just
it's just like one of those little I mean, like tossed to be
lane. That's the best way to.
That's actually really the good way to represent a working
relationship between. They are.
Mates, yeah. They are mates and and Lucas has
got no issues whatsoever. No hang ups, you know, but
they're having their little chats, you know, but what they
were doing at the weekend that was late, you know, that was I
was left with her. Does not like you.
Is it not a proper workplace relationship, you know?
OK, then I think this is an ideal little segue, a little
segue into the last, last talking point here.
Right. Which I'll choose from the
staying with AE being served, Mr. Mesh or Mr. Harmon.
Mr. Harmon. Mr. Harmon.
Don't you have to think about that?
Really. Yeah, OK.
I mean, I don't, but what about is fine, you know?
But for a start, he's playing older, which annoys me.
But there's only little bits of business that are for English as
clearly put in himself. Do you know, like second rolling
round the water, wait for the sunshine whenever he comes on,
which is clearly he's still up. The also the figure of calling
all his assistants things like Warrick and Stanford.
It's clearly he's made-up. They finally always wears a
suit, you know, actually wears a nice short tie.
I think it's a really interesting way.
Well, he's always thumbing through pistols of of banknotes,
isn't he? He's always seems to be.
Yeah, because the because that's the conceit that they're all
trying to emit middle class, because he accepts that he's
working class that does loads of overtime and he gets double time
and time and 1/2 that he gets huge.
What's well, they are all struggling away because you know
if you and he's actually I think he actually says to them, but
one point if you was or that may have been Mr. Marsh.
Actually, if you if you were except that you were working
quite but most I can't do the Mr. Marsh is fine, but the Mr.
Harmon is like that, that series, 4-5 and six, a peak
because you get, you've still got, you get the dream team of
Harmon, Lucas and Granger. Granger, Yeah.
And then Series 6, that's 45. And then the Series 6, you've
got Harmon, Lucas and Goldberg. Alfie Bass, Yeah.
Yeah, who's great. But then it starts to go about
right, because then you've got like Mr. Spooner, and then then,
you know, I'd struggle. And old Mr. Grace, who's?
Oh yeah, who's terrible. And I really don't understand
that because, you know, I've, I've this thing that Harold
Bennett is actually the best actor in all things because he's
phenomenally good. People don't sort of give him
enough credence. You know, the, the, the, the,
there's the seat at his office when he's getting fitted for
these pets. And he and he said, put these on
and he holds up a mirror and he's because his handshake so
much and he says, are we having an earthquake?
But his delivery is so great. And then they say that's a new
glasses that goes under there would be a little and they say
no, no, they make you they make you look like Elton John.
They said, watch no comfort just delivered so brilliantly.
But let's say poof, imagine that.
Run it down. So yeah, that's that's that's
our stone Ginger. Mr. Harmon all the way.
Fair. Enough.
He was also and the, the, the IT was about the shame as well,
because you know, and in sickness and health, which I've
also gone on at Wingfield. He was meant to be in the 60s,
but he was old. So weirdly they get James
Ellison. He's not very good.
And then he had that he had that sort of a do you remember he was
on walking off on English and that his wife had left him.
No. Oh yeah, it was really awkward.
Really. His wife left him quietly odd
and he was getting interviewed on walking and he sort of
appealed his wife to come back to.
My God, Yeah, it was really bad. I think it was one of those sort
of a, you know, stars of Music Hall or so my kind of member,
but I need written an autobiography, which was one of
those sort of looked like it had been self published, but just
was like a kick in the ass above been self published, which was a
perfect. Like Donna Sterling, Jack
Douglas. Well, honestly, I've got so many
of these autobiographies that like Vince Piles 1 and all that.
Oh, really? I've got it.
I kind of met some, like from rags to riches or something.
So riches is pushing it. Tell me a strange thing in Vince
piles all biography which I thought was so Vince Powell was
a very close friends with Jimmy Jewell, as you'd imagine.
Oh, sorry, sorry. Just just one moment, Chris,
before you carry on. Just in case people don't know,
Vince Powell, writer of On the Buses.
On the buses Manger language, Manger language I created
nearest dearest and yeah, I I also a lot of these setcoms that
we mentioned earlier, they were always coming up with set comps
that didn't work because that's what you did.
You know, the, the, the, the BBC might do this sort of very
swanky comedy plea host things or the but most of the time
companies would just come up with so it would make Granada or
Yorkshire be commissioner. Yeah, I mean very formulaic.
Yeah, Vince Pyle and Harry Driver come up with a set
conference this year, please. We'll do 6 episodes.
If they work, we do another one next year.
Yeah, and I bet some of the sets, as you see, were the
biggest. That's good.
All the buses were the biggest show in the country ever all the
time it was on. So he did.
Well, anyway, he's a big pal with Jimmy Jewel.
And as he says in the book, and they're always going, you know,
going to be together and whatever we should regret.
I mean, I, I imagine be powers with Jimmy Jewel.
That would be amazing. I can imagine dude ball in the
Jack everything crash fantastic. He's in one foot in the grave,
of course, isn't he? Yeah, it's so much.
He was a great actor. You know he used to turn up
Grace the office. I will drowned and decrease so.
All right, OK. Yeah.
Yeah, I can remember the police, the granddad, He's just bowling
the Jack and all that. OK.
So anyway, he's an episode episodes of who'd done it as
well. So and the book the great pals
and having this way the families.
They all go to Spain. It mentions us a lot every year
they go. It's been to this particular
police. It's been a particular beach to
the lake, whatever it was just you know, whatever doesn't
matter and they went there year after year and then Jamie Jewell
died place him because we're a little older theaters.
I need intimated that he wanted this gaseous to be scattered on
this beach in Spain. Fine, but if the weird thing was
he, then he then there's a little throwaway like where he
says that basically what he says is it that I had to wait for a
few years till his family came up with the money to pay for me.
Go and do it. That was your best, No, to be to
be generous to him. Perhaps it was because he was
officially, you know, taking the ashes.
And they do charge a lot of money, you know.
So maybe maybe he was, you know, because there's a lot of money,
but he doesn't say that, you know, you think you'd say
unfortunately there's a big cause to do with that.
So we had to work something out between US and we were able to
go into it. You know what I mean?
Yeah, but he just, he just says it as if, well, you know, it's
actually just stayed on the shelf until they copped up the
money for me to go to Spain. And then the beach, just by the
beach bar with the parasols up. Well, he wasn't Vince Power
wasn't one for elaborate descriptive writing.
That's basically. This is not well at all.
Alan played Sir. He was not.
No anyway. I think we'll have to draw this
to a close, Chris. It's been, it's been thoroughly
enjoyable and it's been a change, a slight change of tack.
Yeah, I. Like that.
I like that format. I think you could pretend that
effect, whatever it is that it's attached to.
I just just like to shake things up a little bit and and and I'd
like to maybe do this again and. Absolutely.
I'm always here. We never we never close.
It could be like your your version of the Colbert question
here where you just people just pick the numbers.
Yeah. You have a set list, you just
pick the numbers. Should I quickly should I
quickly read out a couple of questions that are on the list
that we didn't get a chance to? Yeah, go for it.
Or see what this is, what I could have won.
OK. I mean, you have we have kind of
covered some of these already, like for example, memorable TV
interviews with comedians. So there.
You go right kind. Of covered that which 76 comedy
holds up today? Well, what's What should Eric
Sykes be cheeky remembered for? What do?
You mean right, All right, we should do.
We should come back to that. Shall I, shall I save the rest
of these? And we can.
Come. Yeah, Yeah, because I'll tell
you what's not the 19th hole, I'll tell you that.
Straight down the middle over at the tail and turn it off.
Thanks again to Chris. OK, there we are.
I I really enjoy doing that and so did Chris, I think.
And while normal service resumes next week, I would like to
return to this format occasionally, so I'd welcome
your feedback. There's just time for me to
mention that the latest episode of Goon Pod Film Club was up.
It's on A Hard Day's Night and you can try a 7 day free trial
on patreon.com. If you aren't already a member
and want to give it a listen, that's patreon.com/goon Pod.
Next week, another film. And please start thinking of
questions you'd like me to put to Ted Kendall, who will be
returning to Goon Pod before Christmas.
It'll be a special listeners questions episode and should be
a lot of fun. You can message me on Twixter on
Facebook or tyler.adams1974@gmail.com.
And and please make the questions as specific or
esoteric as you want. No questions.
Like, what's your favorite crisps?
No, make it as nerdish as you like.
So yeah, that, that, that. That'd be great if you can get
those questions to me in the next few weeks and months.
Anyway, Enough for me. I've got to go and reacquaint
myself with my children who see me so rarely they think I'm a
rumour. I'll see you next week.
Take care. Bye.