1
00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:08,000
My master is away on American 
sharks. 

2
00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:14,400
He sent, he walks the 
battlements and the time is 2:30

3
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:27,400
who are close there but wants to
and be very nice. 

4
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,800
Blow your finger, sentry. 
Tis I, Sir. 

5
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,520
Water rally. 
Sir, water rally, not any fags. 

6
00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,320
Listen now, good Spearm and 
Echols. 

7
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,920
We're about to embark upon a 
plot You see on Treasure chest. 

8
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,040
I'm holding. 
Get hold of the other end. 

9
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,480
Now grab hold of this end right 
now. 

10
00:00:53,480 --> 00:01:00,690
You've got both ends. 
Ive only got dish end nonsense. 

11
00:01:01,370 --> 00:01:06,690
Whos got the other end? 
Its me. 

12
00:01:06,690 --> 00:01:10,770
Oh it is me. 
Im holding both ends. 

13
00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:13,730
There you are folks. 
Lets see him do that on 

14
00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:51,140
television. 
Hello and welcome to Goom Pot. 

15
00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:55,340
Keeping the spirit of Sellers 
seeking Milligan and Ben Teen 

16
00:01:55,340 --> 00:01:58,140
alive. 
Ben Teen himself told me so last

17
00:01:58,140 --> 00:02:04,300
week, joining me this week. 
Returning guest previously 

18
00:02:04,660 --> 00:02:08,220
turned up to talk about 
Parkinson meeting Peter Sellers 

19
00:02:08,259 --> 00:02:11,340
and the Goons. 
A show that went down extremely 

20
00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:15,480
well, Very, very popular show. 
So I asked him back again, and 

21
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,320
it is John Williams. 
Hello, John. 

22
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,240
It's good to be back. 
Great to have you back. 

23
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,520
And when we yeah, last time when
we were speaking, I did ask you 

24
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,000
to commit to coming back on and 
talking about an actual goon 

25
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,840
show. 
I know that you yourself, you've

26
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,440
not listened to every goon show 
and you're not self confessed, 

27
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,320
you're not an expert as such, 
particularly the more that the 

28
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,670
the later period. 
The Goon Show. 

29
00:02:43,150 --> 00:02:44,150
Is that right? 
Yeah, that's right. 

30
00:02:44,150 --> 00:02:46,790
Yeah. 
Yeah, and so I thought it would 

31
00:02:46,790 --> 00:02:53,350
be a good idea to get you back 
to talk about one of the shows. 

32
00:02:53,350 --> 00:02:57,470
I thought, again, it's it's a 
series that is kind of 

33
00:02:58,390 --> 00:03:02,270
underrepresented on this podcast
because it is considered to be 

34
00:03:02,270 --> 00:03:06,990
the probably the weakest of the 
weakest series of the sort. 

35
00:03:07,030 --> 00:03:10,590
Of. 
Post 54 Goon Show if you like. 

36
00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:15,070
Series 8. 
So I thought it'd be good to get

37
00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:18,510
you want to talk about a really 
strong show from that series and

38
00:03:18,510 --> 00:03:22,950
just to talk about the series 
itself a bit more and and and 

39
00:03:22,990 --> 00:03:25,430
and I'd like to talk a little 
bit about the producers as well.

40
00:03:26,750 --> 00:03:29,630
But I think you were talking to 
Andrew Pixley weren't you? 

41
00:03:29,630 --> 00:03:33,270
And he he threw a few 
suggestions to you as to what 

42
00:03:33,270 --> 00:03:35,150
shows to. 
Yeah, that's that's right. 

43
00:03:35,150 --> 00:03:38,990
I was after we did the last 
show, I was in touch with Andrew

44
00:03:39,070 --> 00:03:41,750
and we were thinking about 
Series 8 and I think. 

45
00:03:42,140 --> 00:03:44,940
One of the things actually that 
Andrew Pixley always says when 

46
00:03:45,060 --> 00:03:48,820
he does research, it's always 
more interesting to research the

47
00:03:49,340 --> 00:03:54,060
unsuccessful series or the 
unsuccessful program or one with

48
00:03:54,060 --> 00:03:56,260
problems behind the scenes 
because they're generally much 

49
00:03:56,260 --> 00:03:58,180
more interesting than the really
successful ones. 

50
00:03:58,620 --> 00:04:00,740
So when I mentioned series 
eight, yeah, I had a quick chat 

51
00:04:00,740 --> 00:04:03,540
with Andrew because Andrew 
obviously kind of fun to all 

52
00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:05,060
knowledge for these kind of 
things. 

53
00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:08,780
He suggested a couple, but one 
of them was Treasure in the 

54
00:04:08,780 --> 00:04:12,990
Tower. 
Which I had heard before a long 

55
00:04:12,990 --> 00:04:18,110
time ago, and when I had a quick
refresh looking at me Wilmettes 

56
00:04:18,110 --> 00:04:24,350
and me Encyclopedia Goonicus, 
I'd forgotten about. 

57
00:04:24,350 --> 00:04:25,950
Just the kind of the thing you 
said this before. 

58
00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:30,190
Didn't know how high concept 
this episode is and how 

59
00:04:30,270 --> 00:04:32,670
fascinating it is and also how 
funny it is. 

60
00:04:32,710 --> 00:04:33,870
And I think it's one of those 
things. 

61
00:04:33,870 --> 00:04:36,840
It's so fantastical. 
I guess you could say this about

62
00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:38,720
a lot of good shows. 
It's really kind of fantastical 

63
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,840
episode with split time frames 
and all of those kind of things 

64
00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,760
running some of in parallel, but
then you've also interacting 

65
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,200
with each other in different 
times. 

66
00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,720
But it's also quite heavily 
rooted in the contemporary world

67
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,720
of 1957 with numerous references
to things that were going on in 

68
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,880
the in in the news at that time 
and in politics. 

69
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,600
So yeah, I thought it looks like
a really kind of rich as as a 

70
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,000
lot of good shows are on in now 
really they're kind of. 

71
00:05:05,510 --> 00:05:07,990
It's that they're that. 
It's sometimes that shows in 

72
00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:10,470
search of footnotes all the way 
through. 

73
00:05:10,870 --> 00:05:14,390
Yeah, yeah, well that's right. 
Spike was keeping putting 

74
00:05:14,390 --> 00:05:19,990
together or Spike kept dossier 
of interesting newspaper 

75
00:05:20,230 --> 00:05:25,270
cuttings and articles from which
he would borrow ideas for Goon 

76
00:05:25,270 --> 00:05:30,550
shows fairly regularly. 
The one that springs to mind 

77
00:05:31,110 --> 00:05:34,470
most notably is the jet 
propelled guided NAFI. 

78
00:05:35,170 --> 00:05:40,210
The well, the the the idea 
sprang from an article he read 

79
00:05:40,850 --> 00:05:45,130
in a newspaper and again with 
this, with this show. 

80
00:05:45,130 --> 00:05:50,570
Yeah, he was just reading the 
Manchester Guardian in October 

81
00:05:50,570 --> 00:05:55,730
1957 and and his eye alighted 
upon a a short article which I'm

82
00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:59,890
sure we will discuss shortly. 
And that gave him somehow I gave

83
00:05:59,890 --> 00:06:04,010
him the idea for this, this 
rather high concept. 

84
00:06:04,750 --> 00:06:08,630
The Goon Show episode in which 
the the action flits between 

85
00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:17,590
1957 and 1600. 
So before we start talking about

86
00:06:17,950 --> 00:06:23,950
the show in detail, I want to 
talk about what was going on 

87
00:06:24,230 --> 00:06:26,350
Again, I always do this. 
I try to do this whenever 

88
00:06:26,670 --> 00:06:28,230
talking about particularly 
talking about Goon Show 

89
00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:30,110
episodes. 
I like to talk about what's 

90
00:06:30,110 --> 00:06:32,030
happening in the world. 
Yeah, we like a bit of context, 

91
00:06:32,030 --> 00:06:33,410
don't we? 
We do. 

92
00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:36,370
And did you have a look? 
Were you looking into what was 

93
00:06:36,570 --> 00:06:38,890
happening on the 28th of October
1957? 

94
00:06:38,970 --> 00:06:42,490
Yeah, I I I looked at some kind 
of specific things. 

95
00:06:42,490 --> 00:06:45,490
The I mean there was some kind 
of before and after. 

96
00:06:45,730 --> 00:06:48,130
One of the things that was quite
interesting this Holly was that 

97
00:06:48,410 --> 00:06:52,050
Stephen Morris, the drummer of 
Joy Division and New Order was 

98
00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:54,330
born on transmission date of 
this episode. 

99
00:06:56,130 --> 00:06:59,250
Which, yeah, what? 
Was the band he was in after 

100
00:06:59,370 --> 00:07:00,890
just was it called The Other? 
Two, yeah. 

101
00:07:00,890 --> 00:07:03,050
The other two, yeah, With his 
wife, Jillian, yeah. 

102
00:07:03,450 --> 00:07:06,890
And Glenn Hoddle, no less, was 
born on a recording date for 

103
00:07:06,890 --> 00:07:10,490
this episode. 
So we've got some interesting 

104
00:07:10,490 --> 00:07:13,010
stuff going on there. 
What did you have, Tyler? 

105
00:07:13,330 --> 00:07:15,530
Well, hang on, Glenn Hoddle. 
Yeah, I'm not. 

106
00:07:15,650 --> 00:07:18,250
I'm really not a football fan. 
Yeah, right. 

107
00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:22,030
But I know him. 
Chiefly, wasn't he? 

108
00:07:22,030 --> 00:07:25,310
And didn't he have a hit with 
Hodwin model or something like? 

109
00:07:25,310 --> 00:07:26,150
That yes, it was. 
He had. 

110
00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:28,990
It was Diamond lights. 
That's it. 

111
00:07:28,990 --> 00:07:32,750
With the with the tragic mullets
which is probably what the band 

112
00:07:32,750 --> 00:07:34,510
should have been called. 
Yeah, it was. 

113
00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:39,910
It was yeah that was an idea of 
pop stars becoming kind of 

114
00:07:40,030 --> 00:07:43,270
moving over into that. 
But yes, Glen Glen checkered. 

115
00:07:43,350 --> 00:07:47,350
I mean amazing football but 
checkered career because the 

116
00:07:47,350 --> 00:07:49,470
reincarnation got the only 
person to get. 

117
00:07:50,010 --> 00:07:52,610
To get sacked as England manager
for talking about reincarnation,

118
00:07:53,650 --> 00:07:54,690
it's. 
So far. 

119
00:07:54,930 --> 00:07:59,970
So far. 
Now there wasn't a lot again, so

120
00:08:00,010 --> 00:08:03,250
often happens there wasn't a 
huge amount of interesting stuff

121
00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:06,010
that I could find that that 
happened on the 20th of October 

122
00:08:06,010 --> 00:08:10,970
1957, however. 
However, are you aware of the 

123
00:08:11,290 --> 00:08:15,690
Elvis and Nipper incident? 
Elvis and Nipper. 

124
00:08:15,690 --> 00:08:19,330
The only nipper I know is the 
sort of his master's voice dog. 

125
00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:21,630
That's right. 
Yeah, that's right. 

126
00:08:21,870 --> 00:08:29,830
OK, So now I had to ask. 
I'd seen this alluded to, you 

127
00:08:30,630 --> 00:08:32,429
know, when you Google and stuff 
like that. 

128
00:08:32,429 --> 00:08:34,590
And I saw people mentioning the 
Elvis and Nipper. 

129
00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:37,110
And I was thinking, what the 
hell, what the Hell's all this 

130
00:08:37,110 --> 00:08:38,350
about? 
Because I don't know anything 

131
00:08:38,350 --> 00:08:39,870
about Elvis Presley 
particularly. 

132
00:08:39,870 --> 00:08:41,669
All right. 
But I know someone who does. 

133
00:08:42,470 --> 00:08:46,390
Andrew Hickey. 
So I asked Andrew, what's this 

134
00:08:46,390 --> 00:08:48,790
about Elvis and Nipper? 
And he said. 

135
00:08:50,050 --> 00:08:52,330
There's not a lot to say, he 
said. 

136
00:08:53,010 --> 00:08:59,130
Elvis was performing on stage on
the 28th of October 1957, and he

137
00:08:59,130 --> 00:09:04,930
had a giant nipper dog, Prop 
Okay, kind of like those, you 

138
00:09:04,930 --> 00:09:10,290
know, the the dog, the plastic 
dogs that you see outside post 

139
00:09:10,290 --> 00:09:12,930
offices that you put coins. 
With the slots in their heads, 

140
00:09:12,930 --> 00:09:16,050
yeah, yeah, shots in there. 
Yeah, kind of a bit like that. 

141
00:09:16,050 --> 00:09:19,880
So, right, so. 
Elvis is performing on stage and

142
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,240
for some reason he's got this 
giant nipper, right. 

143
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:31,200
So when he gets to singing Hound
Dog, he that's when he, you 

144
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,200
know, reasonably enough, that's 
when he picks up nipper and sort

145
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,080
of starts dancing around the 
stage and wrestling with it. 

146
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:44,200
But at the time he was at the 
center of a bit of a moral 

147
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,120
panic. 
Of course, yeah. 

148
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,240
Elvis, the pelvis. 
Yeah, and one of the more 

149
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:55,040
excitable columnists in one of 
the newspapers covering this 

150
00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:01,800
show implied that Elvis that it 
was a sex show and that Elvis 

151
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,640
had pretended to Make Love to it
as if it were a girl. 

152
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,200
Okay. 
But apparently everyone else who

153
00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,000
was there said that was a load 
of rubbish. 

154
00:10:14,740 --> 00:10:17,860
Basically including other 
newspaper, you know, journalists

155
00:10:17,860 --> 00:10:20,140
and whatnot, but it. 
But you know what these things 

156
00:10:20,140 --> 00:10:23,580
are like a story like that, you 
know, it spreads like wildfire. 

157
00:10:23,580 --> 00:10:25,900
Yeah. 
Hard to hard to get rid of it. 

158
00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:27,940
Like kind of Fatty Arbuckle. 
Kind of. 

159
00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:30,860
That was a bit more extreme, 
actually, thinking about it. 

160
00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:35,740
I. 
Was going to say my friend Gary 

161
00:10:35,740 --> 00:10:39,700
as well when he was listening to
us talking about this, he said 

162
00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:43,820
he was reminded of. 
I'm sure you remember the. 

163
00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:47,270
TV show #73. 
Yep. 

164
00:10:48,510 --> 00:10:49,990
Oh, yes, I know what you got. 
Go on. 

165
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:50,990
God, I know where you're going 
with this. 

166
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:54,390
He was reminded to the extent 
that he actually looked it up 

167
00:10:54,390 --> 00:10:57,590
and found it on YouTube. 
He said that he remembered 

168
00:10:57,590 --> 00:11:03,870
seeing Iggy Pop doing 
suggestible things with a giant 

169
00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:06,910
teddy bear when he's performing 
on #73. 

170
00:11:06,950 --> 00:11:08,230
Well, that's definitely 
happened. 

171
00:11:08,350 --> 00:11:10,590
That's incontroversible. 
Saw it, yeah. 

172
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:17,110
And of course it's. 
What she called the redhead in 

173
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:20,630
#73, of course, was Andrea 
Arnold, who's gone on to become 

174
00:11:21,070 --> 00:11:24,230
an incredibly brilliant and 
prestigious director. 

175
00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:27,150
Yeah, she was. 
That's where she got her start 

176
00:11:27,150 --> 00:11:31,550
on #73. 
But maybe she was there When? 

177
00:11:31,790 --> 00:11:36,990
Maybe when Iggy was mating. 
Maybe that's when she decided 

178
00:11:36,990 --> 00:11:38,510
right, watching television. 
I'm gonna. 

179
00:11:38,890 --> 00:11:42,010
Yeah, in and nothing's going to 
top this sort of way, I guess, 

180
00:11:42,010 --> 00:12:05,050
she thought. 
And after that he found it very 

181
00:12:05,050 --> 00:12:07,170
difficult to get bookings on 
British TV. 

182
00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:09,370
I don't think I can. 
Compete with that. 

183
00:12:09,370 --> 00:12:11,410
But yeah, the thing I've 
forgotten about was the front 

184
00:12:11,410 --> 00:12:16,370
page of October the 28th 1950 
Seven's Daily Mirror, which I 

185
00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:18,890
don't think it's such a weird 
front page. 

186
00:12:18,890 --> 00:12:21,570
I don't think it could get more 
1957 if it tried. 

187
00:12:22,570 --> 00:12:25,570
The main headline. 
It's not funny this bit, but 

188
00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:29,850
it's kind of the contrast is 
Kosh Bandits, Torture Woman. 

189
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,080
Now that is very 57 kind of the 
Kosh Boys. 

190
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:35,960
There's even a film called Kosh 
Boys, Isn't There? 

191
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,000
And it was. 
Kosh Boys were just like the big

192
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,440
threat at the time. 
And this is on a page where next

193
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,480
to that headline, they've got a 
scantily clad woman with that 

194
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,560
thing above her head saying 
dance for Joy. 

195
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,480
It doesn't really go well with 
that headline, but next to her 

196
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,840
is she will be his fairy queen. 
And sure enough. 

197
00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:02,900
This woman has got a date with 
rock and roller Tommy Steele. 

198
00:13:03,580 --> 00:13:05,740
Tommy Steele. 
Yes, cuz it's she it's she's 

199
00:13:05,740 --> 00:13:07,460
gonna be in it. 
The pantomime playing 

200
00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:10,460
Goldilocks. 
Cuz Tommy of course, was already

201
00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:13,940
hitting pantomime even at that 
high point of his pop career. 

202
00:13:13,940 --> 00:13:18,060
So there you go 1957 in one 
front page, Kosh boys and Tommy 

203
00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:20,500
Steele. 
When did Tommy Steele do singing

204
00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:24,420
in the Rain? 
I was living in London at that 

205
00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:26,660
point actually, so we must have 
been. 

206
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,400
Early 90s, cuz it ran for ages, 
but it was definitely there in 

207
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,080
the early 90s, yeah, yeah. 
Is that story true? 

208
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,080
The story of, yeah, the water 
tank and what the technicians 

209
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,120
did in it. 
So it ended up on Tommy. 

210
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,920
I mean, I don't think anybody 
knows, but apparently Tommy's 

211
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,960
not famous for being well, 
loved. 

212
00:13:51,660 --> 00:13:54,060
By the people he works with. 
So I can I can well believe it 

213
00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:55,660
happening. 
I think that's so weird about 

214
00:13:55,660 --> 00:13:59,140
Tommy Steele is after the first 
two hit singles he had and in 

215
00:13:59,140 --> 00:14:04,740
the Mania, they made The Tommy 
Steele Story which is that film 

216
00:14:04,740 --> 00:14:06,300
about. 
And it's almost like it's one of

217
00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:08,580
those weird kind of experiments 
because by the end of the film 

218
00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:12,700
it's almost catching up with the
exact moment that he's making. 

219
00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,540
It's very peculiar thing to to 
witness. 

220
00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:18,440
It's a very odd film to watch. 
We should watch that. 

221
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:19,600
You should. 
You should. 

222
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,680
It's insane because it's like 
you you think in this guy's 

223
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,520
career, two months old or 
something like that and they've 

224
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,200
made a film of his, his life. 
It's very peculiar. 

225
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,360
So there was that there was that
not very 1957 thing. 

226
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,840
And the only other thing I I saw
was the incredibly, again, a 

227
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,040
contrast of headlines in the 
Daily Mail about Wilfred Hyde 

228
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,880
White quitting a stage show due 
to the after effects of flu. 

229
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,760
And that's on the front page, 
which is a bit odd. 

230
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,550
Which, which? 
Vice for page space, with 

231
00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:52,990
speculation about Khrushchev's 
dismissal of Zhukov, is a very 

232
00:14:52,990 --> 00:14:58,190
powerful general, so a lot of 
Kremlinology going on there at 

233
00:14:58,190 --> 00:15:01,390
the time during the Cold War. 
So yeah, they were the main 

234
00:15:01,390 --> 00:15:04,990
things that I could find on that
specific day, though of course 

235
00:15:04,990 --> 00:15:08,950
it was in the month that Sputnik
launched and obviously that went

236
00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:12,270
on to have quite a few. 
Goon references. 

237
00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:15,430
Goon show references. 
After this that show after this 

238
00:15:15,790 --> 00:15:18,190
space age. 
Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

239
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:20,430
So there was a rich brew of 
things going on. 

240
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:27,310
Yeah, so this is the 5th episode
of series 8 and it's and it is 

241
00:15:27,310 --> 00:15:30,750
called Treasure in the Tower. 
There's no definite article, 

242
00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:34,790
although in the actual show it 
is announced as the Treasure in 

243
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:37,960
the tower, but. 
The on the front page of the 

244
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,160
script, it is treasure in the 
town. 

245
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,240
It's like Doctor Who naming of 
the early heart and all stories 

246
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,640
all over again this. 
I don't know what does that 

247
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,040
mean. 
There's big controversy about 

248
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,360
what the first few adventures 
were called. 

249
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,440
Let's not go there. 
Sorry for mentioning it. 

250
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,560
Is it an unearthly child or a or
the? 

251
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,080
No, it's just that. 
No. 

252
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,480
They were completely different 
names that some people use and 

253
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,360
some people don't. 
It causes lots of strife. 

254
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,440
Let's move on from that pretty 
swiftly. 

255
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:09,140
Written by Spike and Larry 
Stevens. 

256
00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:16,860
In fact, Larry's responsible for
something in this show which is 

257
00:16:17,660 --> 00:16:21,420
is is to prove to become quite 
enduring, which we'll come to 

258
00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:28,180
later and it's right. 
So Series 8 is is a real mixed 

259
00:16:28,180 --> 00:16:29,100
bag. 
There's that. 

260
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:33,180
There are quite a number of 
really standout shows like. 

261
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:37,310
The man who never Was. 
String robberies, both of which 

262
00:16:37,310 --> 00:16:38,870
were covered. 
This show that we're going to 

263
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:43,070
talk about. 
I'm very fond of the evils of 

264
00:16:43,070 --> 00:16:46,710
bushy spawn, although I know 
that that's can be quite 

265
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:49,270
divisive. 
I think the the burning embassy 

266
00:16:49,270 --> 00:16:56,070
is not bad either. 
I see, I I I see there's a lot 

267
00:16:56,070 --> 00:16:59,910
of what I would call filler type
shows which have got good bits 

268
00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:02,710
in them, but they just kind of. 
I feel I can almost see them as 

269
00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:07,869
sort of assembly line like I 
would I would personally put the

270
00:17:07,869 --> 00:17:13,069
burning embassy in that 
category, but there's you know 

271
00:17:13,069 --> 00:17:16,270
that that that there are quite a
number of of highlights. 

272
00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:18,829
But the problem with the Series 
8 is people will know who are 

273
00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:23,390
listening to this is that every 
other week they the Goons, were 

274
00:17:23,390 --> 00:17:27,630
recording a new show and having 
to record a new version of an 

275
00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:30,510
old show for the vintage Goons 
series. 

276
00:17:31,190 --> 00:17:37,910
For overseas sales, which meant 
that a certain amount of 

277
00:17:37,910 --> 00:17:41,590
tiredness was creeping in, Spike
wasn't happy. 

278
00:17:42,110 --> 00:17:46,030
And on those shows, on those 
weeks where there were double 

279
00:17:46,030 --> 00:17:51,630
shows that you can sometimes 
hear, there's an element of 

280
00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:53,910
wariness and an element of 
phoning it in. 

281
00:17:55,330 --> 00:17:56,810
Going on you. 
Know and it's it's the case 

282
00:17:56,810 --> 00:17:59,170
isn't it that the when they were
double banking it for this 

283
00:17:59,170 --> 00:18:03,050
series it was always the series 
8 episode that came second 

284
00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:05,050
wasn't it? 
Yes. 

285
00:18:05,050 --> 00:18:08,130
So again that sort of means that
you'd have thought and it was 

286
00:18:08,130 --> 00:18:10,930
ended running quite late at that
point wasn't it as well because 

287
00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:13,970
they had to do 2. 
So I think that that you could 

288
00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:17,570
you could imagine the energy was
starting to drop the thing that 

289
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:20,210
I thought was interesting and I 
really I knew about all that bit

290
00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:22,810
but it was the when I was 
reading the compendium notes. 

291
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:26,660
And I saw that what I hadn't 
realized appreciated that there 

292
00:18:26,660 --> 00:18:30,460
was some double recording like 
that in Series 7 as well, mainly

293
00:18:30,460 --> 00:18:35,660
to accommodate Sellers and Cecum
to an extent. 

294
00:18:35,660 --> 00:18:39,100
And Milligan hated that cuz he 
obviously had to write 2 

295
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:42,900
episodes for that particular 
recording session. 

296
00:18:43,180 --> 00:18:45,540
And so he protested and 
protested what I thought was. 

297
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:49,630
Quite not funny for Milligan, 
but sort of like it just looks 

298
00:18:49,630 --> 00:18:51,430
like they're they're almost 
trying to goad him. 

299
00:18:51,630 --> 00:18:54,430
He wanted a shorter run of 
episodes and no double banking 

300
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:57,270
and they just said to him, well 
actually we want a 26 episode 

301
00:18:57,270 --> 00:19:00,950
run and we want you to re 
record, record 14 old episodes 

302
00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:03,630
and double up. 
So it's like the express thing 

303
00:19:03,630 --> 00:19:07,630
he didn't want he got and I 
can't imagine that improved his 

304
00:19:07,630 --> 00:19:10,350
mood much. 
Now I suppose he didn't have a 

305
00:19:10,550 --> 00:19:13,110
huge amount of work to do. 
Revising. 

306
00:19:13,470 --> 00:19:15,550
That's true. 
The old script, and I think he 

307
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:19,710
lent a lot on Larry to help him 
on those as well. 

308
00:19:21,430 --> 00:19:24,950
But one of the key issues with 
Series 8 of course is that they 

309
00:19:25,030 --> 00:19:27,150
they just went through 
producers. 

310
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:32,790
They had three producers in 
Series 8 at different times. 

311
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:38,230
So for this, so the first five 
shows of Series 8, they had 

312
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:41,710
Charles Chilton and he was, he 
was only meant to be there. 

313
00:19:42,340 --> 00:19:44,100
Well he wasn't even meant to be 
the producer. 

314
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:47,780
It was, it was it was going to 
be it was going to be Roy Spear 

315
00:19:47,780 --> 00:19:51,260
from the beginning and of course
Roy Spear famous for giving 

316
00:19:51,260 --> 00:19:57,860
Peter Sellers his big break. 
But there was a late because Roy

317
00:19:57,860 --> 00:20:01,940
Spear was also producing 
Educating Archie and some that 

318
00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:04,540
sort of the last few episodes of
Educating Archie had been 

319
00:20:04,540 --> 00:20:05,940
delayed. 
So it meant that. 

320
00:20:06,970 --> 00:20:09,770
Roy wasn't available for the 
first handful of Goon shows. 

321
00:20:09,930 --> 00:20:13,650
Charles Chilton stepped in. 
Pat Dixon had been the producer 

322
00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:20,970
up to the end of Series 7, but 
because they now needed somebody

323
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:26,690
who could edit the shows in 
double quick time because they 

324
00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:31,130
were being broadcast the day 
after recording and Pat Dixon 

325
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:34,490
was was well, terminally ill as 
well and working on a. 

326
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:36,790
On Ben teen series Round the 
Bend. 

327
00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:39,070
So he just didn't have, he just 
couldn't do it. 

328
00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:42,590
So Charles Chilton stood in for 
Roy. 

329
00:20:44,030 --> 00:20:51,590
Roy did join the show from the 
6th episode, which was the space

330
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:53,190
age. 
I think it is a space age, isn't

331
00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:53,710
it? 
Yeah, I think so. 

332
00:20:54,710 --> 00:21:01,390
But then he fell ill, so he only
ended up supervising 9 Series 8 

333
00:21:01,590 --> 00:21:05,950
original recordings and five. 
Vintage Goons Recordings. 

334
00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:09,230
Then you had Tom Ronald, who did
too. 

335
00:21:09,870 --> 00:21:12,070
Tom. 
Ronald didn't run to do the Goon

336
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:17,190
Show and then Charles Chilton 
came back for the rest of Series

337
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:20,430
8 and you can imagine how 
Milligan was feeling about this 

338
00:21:22,150 --> 00:21:25,710
Spike, wrote Roy Spear. 
A rather angry letter. 

339
00:21:25,870 --> 00:21:30,350
You know he only just taken over
and he already gets a, you know,

340
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:32,110
an angry letter from Spike 
Milligan. 

341
00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:37,930
And Spike says, I find at the 
end of the show that the great 

342
00:21:37,930 --> 00:21:40,450
hurried delivery of the credits 
is a farce. 

343
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:43,410
Nobody quite hears what the man 
is saying. 

344
00:21:45,170 --> 00:21:47,450
It is all done over the 
orchestra, blowing its brains 

345
00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:49,730
out. 
And it's also anticlimactic. 

346
00:21:50,170 --> 00:21:52,170
After all, the show is over and 
done with. 

347
00:21:52,370 --> 00:21:55,240
Everyone knows who it was. 
If they don't buy, then they 

348
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,640
aren't interested. 
If they must be credit given, 

349
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,040
let it be done by the continuity
announcer from his little 

350
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,560
cubicle somewhere in Portland 
Place. 

351
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,200
Now that is it. 
That's really fascinating isn't 

352
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,400
it? 
Because it's the spike to say 

353
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,520
that that it's anti climactic at
the end of the Goon Show. 

354
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,640
Given some of the endings of the
Goon Show, that seems a bit rich

355
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,240
if they did just end and go to a
guy in a continuity booth. 

356
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,160
A part of the part of what saves
sometimes the end. 

357
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:28,210
Is the frenetic kind of rousing 
music and the sort of chatter 

358
00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:30,970
rather than just a silence and a
continuity announcer. 

359
00:22:31,250 --> 00:22:32,810
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
That's. 

360
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:35,090
Because they really do die 
sometimes they just die away, 

361
00:22:35,090 --> 00:22:39,050
don't they, at the end? 
Yeah, and again, there's also 

362
00:22:39,050 --> 00:22:42,770
erratic, there's this erratic 
sort of theme tune thing going 

363
00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:45,370
on in Series 8. 
So you've got Lucky Strike, I 

364
00:22:45,370 --> 00:22:48,530
think up until, well up until 
this episode we're talking about

365
00:22:48,530 --> 00:22:51,890
today. 
So we get the debut of. 

366
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,880
What is it called? 
Ding Dong? 

367
00:22:54,880 --> 00:23:07,640
The witch is dead. 
That was The Goon Show, a BBC 

368
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,520
recorded program featuring Peter
Sellers, Harry Secombe and Spike

369
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,560
Milligan with the raid into 
quartet Max Gildrey and the 

370
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,680
Orchestra conducted by Wally 
Stott, script by Spike Milligan 

371
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,200
and Nari Stevens and answer 
Wally Greenslade. 

372
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,320
The program produced by Charles 
Chilton. 

373
00:23:22,540 --> 00:23:25,060
And it's an odd choice. 
I don't know who cannot look 

374
00:23:25,260 --> 00:23:28,340
back, but that replaced Lucky 
Strike. 

375
00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:32,940
But then later on the series 
you've got old comrades March 

376
00:23:33,940 --> 00:23:39,500
and there's a couple of other 
sort of variations as well as 

377
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:41,300
the Goon Show sort of nears its 
end. 

378
00:23:41,860 --> 00:23:44,830
So again. 
It's very odd. 

379
00:23:44,910 --> 00:23:46,470
Yeah. 
Quite sure. 

380
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:49,950
I just don't know what to make 
of the change of the things. 

381
00:23:49,950 --> 00:23:54,750
Presumably it must be deliberate
and it must be a reason for it, 

382
00:23:54,750 --> 00:23:57,630
but it just seems it just seems 
most peculiar, doesn't it? 

383
00:23:58,470 --> 00:24:01,270
Just sort of reflects the chaos 
in the background, doesn't it 

384
00:24:01,270 --> 00:24:04,070
really? 
It would be like your favorite 

385
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:07,390
sitcom, you know? 
I don't know what's your 

386
00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:08,630
favorite sitcom from the 80s? 
I. 

387
00:24:09,670 --> 00:24:12,390
Don't know filthy rich and cat 
flap. 

388
00:24:12,970 --> 00:24:13,850
No, that's no good. 
No. 

389
00:24:14,970 --> 00:24:15,970
Hello, Hello. 
Hello. 

390
00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:19,690
Hello. 
The first five series have the 

391
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:24,570
usual theme at the end and then 
it just sort of varies it every 

392
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:26,290
now and then for the last couple
of series. 

393
00:24:26,770 --> 00:24:29,210
Yeah, it has the Ace of Spades 
or something like that. 

394
00:24:29,210 --> 00:24:31,250
At the end, it would just be. 
It wouldn't quite work, would 

395
00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:32,410
it? 
That would be quite the. 

396
00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:35,500
It would give you a shock, 
definitely. 

397
00:24:35,660 --> 00:24:37,180
Yeah, I think. 
Or a chicken man. 

398
00:24:40,460 --> 00:24:42,380
The grain chill thing. 
Or to give us a clue, thing 

399
00:24:42,420 --> 00:24:43,900
Chin, of course. 
Or to give you a clue, 

400
00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:45,700
absolutely. 
That's the lest we forget. 

401
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:50,780
Yes, okay. 
So this is a difficult I think 

402
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:52,380
this is gonna be a bit of a 
challenge to talk about this 

403
00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:56,940
show just because of the way it 
the action flits back and forth.

404
00:24:57,180 --> 00:25:01,540
So what I thought I would do if 
you don't mind is. 

405
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,520
Just run through a summary of 
the actual what happens in this 

406
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,720
show. 
So it begins in 1600. 

407
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,040
So Walter Raleigh, played by 
Segun and Eccles, are in 

408
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,040
America. 
They load a chest of treasure, 

409
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,680
which Raleigh intends to smuggle
home and bury in the Tower of 

410
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,600
London. 
They set sail for England. 

411
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,200
Meanwhile, in 1957, Ned Segun, 
Minister for Works. 

412
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:36,360
Reveals that the excavations at 
the tower sadly have failed to 

413
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,200
find any treasure. 
He hires treasure experts grit 

414
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,560
Piper Moriarty to dig for the 
treasure at the price of 1 

415
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,040
Guinea per shovel full of dirt. 
Okay. 

416
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,240
So before we go further, do you 
want to talk about because? 

417
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,240
I said before that this show was
based or inspired. 

418
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,040
Spike was inspired to write this
show based on a small article he

419
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,840
saw in the Manchester Guardian. 
Do you want to talk about that? 

420
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,720
Yeah, sure. 
I mean the the, the article in 

421
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:15,680
question was October the as they
say October the 7th, 1957, it's 

422
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,600
called no treasure in the tower 
and I think presumably what 

423
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,240
tickled mitigant about it apart 
from the pointlessness of a lot 

424
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,570
of. 
Politics in the way that the 

425
00:26:24,570 --> 00:26:27,290
government works, was the first 
sentences. 

426
00:26:27,290 --> 00:26:30,250
Excavations which began in May 
at the Tower of London have now 

427
00:26:30,250 --> 00:26:32,650
been completed without the 
discovery of any buried 

428
00:26:32,650 --> 00:26:36,090
treasure. 
So it's immediately sort of a 

429
00:26:36,090 --> 00:26:39,010
negative way. 
Expect a story to be kind of 

430
00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:41,730
like leading to something. 
It's leading to, it's leading to

431
00:26:41,730 --> 00:26:45,050
an absence of something, which 
is exactly I think what what 

432
00:26:45,290 --> 00:26:48,450
Milligan runs with throughout 
the rest of the. 

433
00:26:49,940 --> 00:26:52,140
Particularly when you get to the
bits where he's talking about 

434
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:53,980
the the treasures in the wrong 
place. 

435
00:26:53,980 --> 00:26:57,340
Well, why don't we dig there? 
It's that kind of stuff comes 

436
00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:57,740
out. 
Yeah. 

437
00:26:57,740 --> 00:27:00,100
It says the and this is 
announced by the ministry of 

438
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:01,540
work. 
So maybe we'll come back to the 

439
00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:04,780
ministry of Works in a second. 
The excavations were at the 

440
00:27:04,780 --> 00:27:07,460
boiler house and the governor's 
residence in the 12th century 

441
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:10,340
bell tower. 
But he does say the ministry 

442
00:27:10,340 --> 00:27:13,340
states that these areas were 
said to be the most likely 

443
00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:17,500
hiding places of the box to 
treasure and the the treasure 

444
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,180
which is reputed to have been 
hidden. 

445
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,980
I say he was the 17th century 
Lieutenant of the Lieutenant of 

446
00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:27,820
the tower, where obviously 17th 
century and the setting is 1600.

447
00:27:27,860 --> 00:27:31,020
In America, as you said, the 
value of the treasure was 

448
00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:35,100
estimated at between 3000 to 
250,000. 

449
00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:38,900
And then it says the excavations
in the boiler room come back to 

450
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:41,620
that later, I'm sure. 
And in Mint St. we're undertaken

451
00:27:41,620 --> 00:27:44,100
to provide information about the
curtain wall. 

452
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,360
This was shown to be of great 
thickness with its foundation 

453
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,960
some 24 feet wide at its base. 
And that's the that's the 

454
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,360
article. 
So I think you see there that 

455
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:01,760
this episode is extracted from 
those particularly odd things. 

456
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,280
But on the on the face of it, 
you could just read this and 

457
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,200
think Ministry of Works doing 
some digging, but Milligan seems

458
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760
straight through to the kind of 
ludicrousness of of part of that

459
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,180
and has run with it. 
Yes, so do we. 

460
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:18,620
I didn't check. 
Did the this fabled box the 

461
00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:21,580
treasure, Did it actually ever 
turn up subsequently? 

462
00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:25,060
Didn't as far as I can tell 
anyway, unless someone's keeping

463
00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:26,580
very quiet about it. 
But there are. 

464
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:30,260
It periodically resurfaces as a 
news story comparatively 

465
00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:33,300
recently, and inflation has 
worked its magic and it's now 

466
00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:37,500
repeated to be worth 20 million.
So it keeps cropping up. 

467
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:40,140
But no, sadly, sadly, it's not 
been found. 

468
00:28:40,260 --> 00:28:41,100
Maybe. 
Maybe. 

469
00:28:41,780 --> 00:28:45,300
Somebody will be inspired by 
this podcast to seek it out and 

470
00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:48,380
go digging around, digging, 
digging up near the Tower of 

471
00:28:48,380 --> 00:28:50,020
London. 
I'm sure that can't lead you 

472
00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:52,100
into any trouble at all, no? 
Ahead. 

473
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:53,980
Well, you wouldn't. 
You wouldn't have far to travel 

474
00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:59,180
if you're being arrested on 
guard in the tower. 

475
00:28:59,180 --> 00:29:02,060
Major Bloodnot receives reports 
of strange noises under the 

476
00:29:02,060 --> 00:29:05,940
Crown Jewels room Grip Pipe and 
Moriarty digging upward under 

477
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:09,180
the tower, break into the Crown 
Jewels room and thinking they 

478
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:12,070
found the fable treasure. 
Take it back to Seagun, 

479
00:29:13,630 --> 00:29:16,270
meanwhile, in 1600 rallies men 
and the good ship Venus. 

480
00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:18,550
Of course they approached. 
They're seen by Blood Knock in 

481
00:29:18,550 --> 00:29:23,710
1957, who fires on them. 
Raleigh discovers they've left 

482
00:29:23,710 --> 00:29:26,550
the treasure back in America and
sends Echols back to get it. 

483
00:29:27,270 --> 00:29:29,630
Grip pipe hands over the 
treasure, actually the crown 

484
00:29:29,630 --> 00:29:32,830
jewels to Nettie and receives 
his fee of 10,000 pounds. 

485
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:35,750
Net is then arrested for 
stealing them and does 10 years 

486
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:38,110
hard labor. 
Meanwhile, Blood Knock 

487
00:29:38,150 --> 00:29:40,230
encounters Echols returning with
Riley's treasure. 

488
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,240
He swung too far and ended up in
1957. 

489
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,080
Seagun hires Minnie and Henry, 
treasure diviners who set off in

490
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,440
pursuit of the treasure on a 
pipe organ. 

491
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,920
Back in 1600, Raleigh sees the 
pipe organ beef eater Blue 

492
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,440
Bottle meets Eccles and 
discovers he's in 1600, meaning 

493
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,760
he hasn't even been born yet. 
In 1957, Henry and Minnie 

494
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,120
excavate in the tower and 
discover no treasure, but they 

495
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,200
do hit a water main 30 feet 
down. 

496
00:30:08,710 --> 00:30:12,710
Back in 1600, Raleigh discovers 
this hole and buries his 

497
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:17,310
treasure in there, and that is 
why in 1957 they failed to 

498
00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:21,030
discover the treasure buried 
back in 1600. 

499
00:30:21,790 --> 00:30:27,110
We'll be asking questions later.
Yes, yeah, I remember when I 

500
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:28,670
first heard the show. 
I just. 

501
00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:32,190
I just kind of abandoned trying 
to follow it. 

502
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:35,110
I just just enjoyed the jokes 
and the gags. 

503
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:39,170
Of which there are many good 
ones as well, but it's the as a 

504
00:30:39,170 --> 00:30:40,690
concept. 
It's interesting, isn't it? 

505
00:30:40,690 --> 00:30:44,410
Because I was trying to think 
where Milligan might have got 

506
00:30:44,410 --> 00:30:46,250
this from and I didn't have as 
much time. 

507
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:50,530
The the kind of the obvious 
things I can think of where I've

508
00:30:50,530 --> 00:30:53,530
never kind of come across 
something where they're 

509
00:30:53,530 --> 00:30:56,730
communicating with each other 
directly from one time zone to 

510
00:30:56,730 --> 00:30:59,770
another and having dialogue. 
It's a bit towards the end where

511
00:30:59,770 --> 00:31:02,770
Blue Bottle and Echols are 
talking, and actually it's 

512
00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:04,930
Echols trying to explain to Blue
Bottle. 

513
00:31:05,460 --> 00:31:07,260
Why? 
Because he's in 1600. 

514
00:31:07,580 --> 00:31:11,900
He can't help him. 
And that that is particularly as

515
00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:12,900
echoes. 
He's almost trying to 

516
00:31:12,940 --> 00:31:16,100
conceptualize what's going on 
and just ends up doing sort of 

517
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:19,780
incredible grunts as he's trying
to sort of work his way through 

518
00:31:19,780 --> 00:31:22,220
it and try and make Blue Bottle 
understand. 

519
00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:25,980
And there's a big way he's 
saying something like, you know,

520
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:29,620
and I'm in, I'm in 1600, you're 
in 1957. 

521
00:31:30,270 --> 00:31:32,990
Then nobody, they're slightly 
kind of improvising at this 

522
00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:36,990
point and Milligan or Echo 
suddenly says say yes. 

523
00:31:37,390 --> 00:31:40,750
I'm not really. 
I'm really on. 

524
00:31:41,070 --> 00:31:43,110
I'm really not here. 
What do? 

525
00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:59,910
You mean? 
Man if if this is 9057. 

526
00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:09,450
You said I said 1957. 
Say yes, well up. 

527
00:32:09,450 --> 00:32:11,970
This is 1957. 
I'm dead. 

528
00:32:17,970 --> 00:32:24,770
Well, I'm not and oh, oh, tell 
you I'm known enough because I'm

529
00:32:24,770 --> 00:32:27,490
in 1600 on you. 
You're not born yet. 

530
00:32:33,550 --> 00:32:36,070
It's really excellent. 
But at that kind of conceptually

531
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:39,830
I was trying to think of scifi 
things where you've had that and

532
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:41,230
one of the ones it's not quite 
scifi. 

533
00:32:41,230 --> 00:32:44,230
One of the things that leads to 
mine that was quite popular in 

534
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:48,430
the sort of 40s fifties were JB 
Priestley's time plays. 

535
00:32:48,990 --> 00:32:53,470
So you got plays like Time in 
the Conway's where yeah, where 

536
00:32:53,470 --> 00:32:56,630
you see he does a lot. 
He did kind of about 5 or 6 

537
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:59,110
literally they were known as his
time plays. 

538
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,000
Where he plays around with the 
idea of people in recurring time

539
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:09,000
events or or kind of meeting, 
leaping through time and playing

540
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,200
off scenes against each other 
from different time zones. 

541
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,080
So I did wonder whether any of 
that might have been an 

542
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,360
influence on Echoes. 
And looking at it the other way,

543
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,760
the other thing I thought about 
was what came after this that 

544
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,560
did that kind of thing. 
One of the ones that left to 

545
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,970
mine was Nigel Niels, The Road. 
TV play I've. 

546
00:33:25,130 --> 00:33:27,050
Heard of that? 
Yeah, which is sad, which is 

547
00:33:27,050 --> 00:33:30,490
sadly lost now. 
But the and it has been remade 

548
00:33:30,890 --> 00:33:35,970
as a radio play and that give it
away because it's famously got a

549
00:33:35,970 --> 00:33:40,370
really great twist in it. 
But that has a sort of setting a

550
00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:44,210
time when leaking from another 
time zone. 

551
00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:47,530
They hear noises and activity 
and things that are happening in

552
00:33:47,530 --> 00:33:50,010
another time zone. 
And they gradually kind of and 

553
00:33:50,010 --> 00:33:52,490
people think it's a haunting, 
but it's actually two time zones

554
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:54,450
crossing each other. 
And of course, Neil was. 

555
00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:57,850
This is a stretch, but Neil was 
a big fan of the Goons, wasn't 

556
00:33:57,850 --> 00:33:58,890
he? 
He was happy. 

557
00:33:59,130 --> 00:34:00,730
He was happy to. 
Let friend of Milligan's. 

558
00:34:00,890 --> 00:34:03,890
Yeah, exactly. 
And he was happy to let them 

559
00:34:03,890 --> 00:34:05,290
parody quite a mass. 
He wasn't. 

560
00:34:05,290 --> 00:34:08,290
He wasn't famously happy about 
lots of parodies of quite a 

561
00:34:08,290 --> 00:34:11,570
mass, but he was happy enough 
for Spike Milligan to do one 

562
00:34:11,850 --> 00:34:13,610
with the scarlet capsule. 
So I thought that was 

563
00:34:13,610 --> 00:34:18,290
interesting anyway, that maybe, 
just maybe, this concept fed 

564
00:34:18,290 --> 00:34:20,810
into that a little bit. 
Yeah, maybe. 

565
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:23,370
What do we know? 
What he felt about the Hancock? 

566
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,360
Parody of quite a mess. 
I think he was OK about that as 

567
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,360
well because I think he quite 
like he was. 

568
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,560
Basically Neil was a very 
crutchety guy and I think any 

569
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,280
anybody he respected, he was 
sort of OK with them doing it as

570
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:38,960
long as they didn't make money 
out of his work. 

571
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,960
But but others he was asking 
there was a faint well, I can't 

572
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,400
remember what. 
There was one quite near the 

573
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,960
time of kicking myself not 
remembering this one, which he 

574
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,679
absolutely hated and complained 
to the BBC about, so he was 

575
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:54,630
definitely not shy about. 
Going on the attack, if he 

576
00:34:54,630 --> 00:34:56,350
thought he wasn't, his work 
wasn't being treated with 

577
00:34:56,350 --> 00:34:57,950
respect. 
I was just interested. 

578
00:34:57,950 --> 00:35:02,630
You mentioned 1984 because 1985,
because of course that was Nigel

579
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:03,830
Neal as well, wasn't it? 
Yeah. 

580
00:35:04,430 --> 00:35:06,950
And that that was when 
everything started. 

581
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:09,910
Kind of the, the hilariously, 
kind of like the kind of 

582
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:13,950
recursion on that. 
Because Orwell's original 1984, 

583
00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:18,630
a lot of it was influenced by 
his time at the BBC, working in 

584
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:21,110
the propaganda unit, effectively
at the BBC. 

585
00:35:21,730 --> 00:35:25,570
Which you then turn into 1984, 
which then Milligan parodied 

586
00:35:25,570 --> 00:35:28,930
Nigel Neal's version into a 
parody about the BBC. 

587
00:35:30,370 --> 00:35:34,210
So it kind of flipped its way 
around quite nicely there, which

588
00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:37,250
is I think 1985 is an excellent 
episode, really good. 

589
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:39,890
Yeah, I think if you're 
listening to this particular 

590
00:35:39,890 --> 00:35:43,170
episode of Goon Pod, I think you
need to have a pen and a piece 

591
00:35:43,170 --> 00:35:46,890
of paper to sort of follow where
we're going. 

592
00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:50,090
There's a lot of references in 
this show. 

593
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,360
Or a couple of references, I 
should say, to television, as in

594
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:54,600
you couldn't do that on 
television. 

595
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,600
Yeah, there's a bit at the 
beginning where Echoes is 

596
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,760
mysteriously holding both ends 
of a very long box, isn't he? 

597
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,720
And I think I don't know how 
they did it. 

598
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,960
Did they have Echoes response 
played in maybe on the paper? 

599
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,280
I assumed to do that. 
And then, yeah, Segan says you 

600
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,320
can't do that on TV. 
Maybe it was just a kind of 

601
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,760
comment on the growing 
popularity of television. 

602
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,120
And people start to feel a bit 
threatened by it about what 

603
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,120
radio was doing. 
That's how I read that. 

604
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,440
You know, I think there was a 
quite a few references of that 

605
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,720
type in comedies from this era 
because obviously it was 

606
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,640
starting to become fairly 
obvious because I mean, I think 

607
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,000
the actual day this went out, 
this episode, Hancock's half 

608
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,880
hour had just finished on 
television. 

609
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,800
And so of course Hancock had 
made the move into and was 

610
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,720
running it for a while. 
It ran in parallel with the 

611
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,400
radio show. 
But again, I think that's just 

612
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,440
an indication, isn't it, that 
that was becoming hugely 

613
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,120
popular. 
So things, not only things that 

614
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,120
were on the radio, we're also on
TV, but TV just generally 

615
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,040
becoming starting to inexorably 
become dominant. 

616
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,320
And I just saw those kind of 
little comments that we're kind 

617
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,360
of reflecting that, look, this 
is something you can't do on TV,

618
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,120
we can do this on the radio. 
Yeah, I think the the standout 

619
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,360
scene in this is Blue Bottle 
neckles, as so often is the 

620
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,140
case. 
What? 

621
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:24,620
Where are you? 
In the water in 1957. 

622
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:29,060
I can't help you then. 
I mean 1600. 

623
00:37:30,460 --> 00:37:35,700
You can't be in there in the 
1600 there I can see you quite 

624
00:37:35,740 --> 00:37:40,140
clearly. 
But in 1957 you got all them 

625
00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:51,220
good natural spectacles. 
I'll be the man who sees no one 

626
00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:55,420
touches them. 
Blue Bottle says that a number 

627
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:59,100
of times in the Green show. 
And I love that line, and I 

628
00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:02,300
don't know why, but I've got, 
I've got the feeling, and 

629
00:38:02,300 --> 00:38:05,940
someone listening may be able to
write in and tell me I've got 

630
00:38:05,940 --> 00:38:09,700
the feeling. 
That's a payoff to a dirty joke 

631
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:11,300
or something. 
Well, there's not. 

632
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:13,860
There's the famous blood note 
one, isn't there in this. 

633
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,640
This to pay off as well the. 
Power of good. 

634
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,440
Yeah, I don't know who you are 
or where you came from, but 

635
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,600
you've done me the power of good
and that gets. 

636
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,240
I think it's only a couple of 
episodes before this, isn't it, 

637
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:28,920
that it's first used that 
particular one and that gets a 

638
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,920
massive laugh and it gets a 
pretty good good one in this as 

639
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,840
well. 
But now it sounds like it sounds

640
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,760
like exactly. 
It could be one of those. 

641
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,880
There must be more than more 
than one or two that they did, I

642
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,410
imagine, but. 
Finding them out cuz again. 

643
00:38:42,410 --> 00:38:44,810
The problem is that the jokes 
got lost to time a little bit, 

644
00:38:44,810 --> 00:38:47,530
don't they? 
So all we're left with is a 

645
00:38:47,530 --> 00:38:50,050
payoff. 
Yeah, cuz there's some 

646
00:38:50,050 --> 00:38:52,570
references. 
There's references to Jane 

647
00:38:52,570 --> 00:38:54,290
Mansfield. 
We all know Jane Mansfield. 

648
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:56,410
There's reference to birded 
miles. 

649
00:38:56,410 --> 00:38:59,890
We know birded miles, but 
there's a reference to. 

650
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,920
Is it fair to say that people 
don't know what eggs stand with 

651
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,040
lions is all about these days? 
I suppose. 

652
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,520
I suppose that's fair. 
Yeah, all eggs still stand with 

653
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,280
lions. 
I don't think so. 

654
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,320
I don't know. 
I don't really look at eggs very

655
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,120
often pop to see if they're 
cracked to be honest. 

656
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,040
But the no, I think it was a 
fairly recent development, 

657
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,600
wasn't it? 
At this point, I mean, I guess 

658
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,680
they had a terrible problem with
salmonella in eggs. 

659
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,870
You couldn't trust your eggs. 
So having your lion's stamp of 

660
00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:33,710
authority meant your egg was a 
good one. 

661
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:36,470
So, but I think it must have 
been. 

662
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:37,950
I forgot to look that up. 
Actually, I think it must have 

663
00:39:37,950 --> 00:39:40,910
been a fairly recent 
introduction as a sort of 

664
00:39:40,910 --> 00:39:42,670
quality be a health and safety 
thing. 

665
00:39:43,630 --> 00:39:45,430
Yes, and there's also the 
reference. 

666
00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:48,950
Blood knock makes a reference to
the merging of regiments as 

667
00:39:48,950 --> 00:39:49,990
these systems. 
Yeah. 

668
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:56,830
So you've got Harry, for once, 
doing a different voice. 

669
00:39:57,420 --> 00:40:01,420
Playing Guardsman Tom Murals. 
Yeah, it's Tom Murals a joke. 

670
00:40:01,420 --> 00:40:03,340
It sounds like it is, but I 
can't find out. 

671
00:40:03,420 --> 00:40:07,860
I can't find out what it is so 
because it sounds like it has to

672
00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:09,540
be, but I can't find any 
reference to it. 

673
00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:15,220
Well, yours sounds a bit. 
Yeah, it might just be that or I

674
00:40:15,220 --> 00:40:17,100
didn't know whether it was a 
specific reference, yeah. 

675
00:40:18,380 --> 00:40:23,060
But he's sharing his battle 
dress with Jim Spriggs, and 

676
00:40:23,060 --> 00:40:25,580
that's where Blood Knocks says 
this merging of the regiments is

677
00:40:25,580 --> 00:40:28,530
going too far, I tell you. 
What was the merging of the 

678
00:40:28,530 --> 00:40:29,770
regiments? 
What was that about? 

679
00:40:29,770 --> 00:40:33,250
Well, yeah, that this was a huge
thing in 1957. 

680
00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:36,410
And I mean you can tell the 
contemporary resident because he

681
00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:38,290
gets probably the biggest laugh 
of the episode. 

682
00:40:38,330 --> 00:40:40,970
I think it's absolutely huge 
laugh. 

683
00:40:40,970 --> 00:40:44,290
And it was literally, well, what
happened was it was basically 

684
00:40:44,410 --> 00:40:47,410
they from the start of the year,
possibly towards the end of 

685
00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:51,290
1956, the government started 
seriously looking at how they 

686
00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:55,690
were going to effectively 
downsize the downsize the armed 

687
00:40:55,690 --> 00:40:59,660
forces. 
And they were going to be making

688
00:40:59,660 --> 00:41:03,020
lots and lots of soldiers, 
officers redundant. 

689
00:41:03,820 --> 00:41:06,980
And at first they didn't know 
there were all sorts of 

690
00:41:06,980 --> 00:41:09,660
different plans about how they 
were going to do this, even down

691
00:41:09,660 --> 00:41:12,020
to us. 
Or in one newspaper article, 

692
00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:15,780
they were even considering 
looking at the split between the

693
00:41:15,780 --> 00:41:19,660
Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force 
and the and the Army and maybe 

694
00:41:19,660 --> 00:41:21,660
bring that into question. 
It was almost like all bets are 

695
00:41:21,660 --> 00:41:22,860
off about what we're going to 
do. 

696
00:41:23,260 --> 00:41:26,500
And lots of regiments are in 
danger of being disbanded. 

697
00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:31,060
And this was causing much uproar
because obviously it's like it's

698
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:34,860
12 years after the war. 
There's still national service. 

699
00:41:34,860 --> 00:41:38,780
There's been, there's been Suez 
by this point, hadn't there? 

700
00:41:38,780 --> 00:41:42,820
Where there's been, there's been
some kind of like, you know, 

701
00:41:42,820 --> 00:41:45,220
there's been some military input
to that and people got sent out 

702
00:41:45,220 --> 00:41:50,560
there to Aiden or whatever. 
Yeah, and basically it was hot 

703
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,480
kind of controversial topic. 
What they eventually decided to 

704
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,440
do was say that instead of 
disbanding some regiments, 

705
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,040
they'd merge them. 
But this really caused a real 

706
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,920
kerfuffle as well because 
regiments, obviously people were

707
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,560
proud of being in their 
regiment, but not only that, 

708
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,760
they hated other regiments and 
there was some massive rivalries

709
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,920
between some regiments where 
they basically would be emerged.

710
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:15,790
And there was a lot of 
resistance to this. 

711
00:42:16,030 --> 00:42:19,150
So it would been in the press 
all the time. 

712
00:42:19,150 --> 00:42:21,470
So if you look at sort of the 
Daily Mail through this first 

713
00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:26,070
period of 1957, up until this 
point, it was just a really 

714
00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:29,630
regular story and quite often on
the front pages as well as as 

715
00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:32,190
people saying what does this 
mean for the, you know, are we 

716
00:42:32,190 --> 00:42:34,710
ruining our army? 
Are we ruining our own forces? 

717
00:42:35,070 --> 00:42:37,550
And there were things like even 
down to if they can't wear the 

718
00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:40,750
old cat badge anymore, can't 
which, which I think is a 

719
00:42:40,990 --> 00:42:44,110
deliberate joke, which also gets
a big laugh. 

720
00:42:44,740 --> 00:42:46,860
If they can't wear the cat badge
anymore, then some people from 

721
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:49,100
the old regiment that doesn't 
exist anymore could wear their 

722
00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:51,500
old cat badge on their arm or 
lapel. 

723
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:55,260
And with the Scottish ones they 
were arguing about whether they 

724
00:42:55,260 --> 00:42:58,020
should be wear kilts because one
regiment wore kilts and the 

725
00:42:58,020 --> 00:43:00,780
other regiment wore trues, 
tartan trousers. 

726
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:04,060
So it was this kind of level 
detail. 

727
00:43:04,060 --> 00:43:06,460
And in the end the final 
decision was made I think in 

728
00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:10,820
July 1957 and it was announced 
what was going to happen. 

729
00:43:11,060 --> 00:43:13,660
And as I say it's quite. 
Kind of ironic in the context of

730
00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:17,020
the program that you after this,
you get lots of sort of old 

731
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:20,540
offices, some kernels and things
like that, as well as kind of 

732
00:43:20,540 --> 00:43:26,300
like the ranks being kind of 
made redundant effectively and 

733
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:28,580
given a reasonably generous 
period of time before they had 

734
00:43:28,580 --> 00:43:31,300
to leave. 
And certain payoffs were sort of

735
00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:32,540
range. 
But that's where you get a lot 

736
00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:36,500
of these kind of ideas of old 
kernels put out to grass. 

737
00:43:37,230 --> 00:43:39,870
Before they would have wanted to
be and immediately and of course

738
00:43:39,870 --> 00:43:41,910
that's it's blood knock that's 
talking about this. 

739
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:44,830
So I think that's kind of plays 
into it as well. 

740
00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:46,750
But now it was really, really 
hot topic, which I think 

741
00:43:46,750 --> 00:43:49,710
explains why it gets such a 
massive laugh because it's such 

742
00:43:49,710 --> 00:43:52,910
a current news story. 
Yeah, and then soon after he 

743
00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:58,190
gets a bit of a filthy laugh 
when he mentions the fact that 

744
00:43:58,590 --> 00:44:01,430
his old regiment was blood 
knocks. 

745
00:44:01,430 --> 00:44:07,140
Old regiment was the 3rd heavy. 
Yes, cuz it's when Ray Ellington

746
00:44:07,140 --> 00:44:10,660
says I don't wear a uniform, I'm
in the third heavy nudist 

747
00:44:11,540 --> 00:44:15,020
Bloodnot says My old regiment, 
what a cat badge they had. 

748
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:18,700
And it's a great joke actually, 
that whole bloodnot sequence. 

749
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:20,820
Because the thing that makes me 
laugh as well about all of this 

750
00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:24,380
is all of those bits were 
dropped for the transcription 

751
00:44:24,380 --> 00:44:28,540
services are either because of 
the fact that they're quite 

752
00:44:28,540 --> 00:44:32,830
specific topical references. 
Or possibly, I don't know, 

753
00:44:32,830 --> 00:44:35,070
because they were, they were 
seen as being a bit rude. 

754
00:44:35,070 --> 00:44:38,390
I don't know what the kind of 
thing was, but that's it's 

755
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:41,350
quite, it's funny how a lot of 
that kind of really funny stuff 

756
00:44:41,350 --> 00:44:45,190
just gets dropped because of for
one reason or another and yet 

757
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:47,510
that's so that's the biggest 
laugh gets dropped. 

758
00:44:47,710 --> 00:44:50,230
That means that three men in one
better. 

759
00:44:50,710 --> 00:44:53,950
No, me never wear uniform. 
And why not? 

760
00:44:54,510 --> 00:44:59,790
Me and the third heavy nudists. 
Heavy nudists. 

761
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,480
Old regiment. 
Oh, what a cat badge they had. 

762
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,760
The first big gag for me, first 
big love for me was right at the

763
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,440
beginning, when when what's the 
Eccles is? 

764
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,160
Eccles is playing the sentry, 
walking the battlements. 

765
00:45:31,110 --> 00:45:33,390
And he hears somebody and he 
goes Holt who goes there and you

766
00:45:33,390 --> 00:45:37,670
hear a clock chiming and Nickel 
says advance Dong and be 

767
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:42,950
recognized. 
And there's a bit in the script 

768
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:45,910
that they didn't either they 
recorded and and it wasn't kept 

769
00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:48,110
in or they just cut the cut it 
out. 

770
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:51,070
There's a bit in the script 
where so Walter Raleigh. 

771
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:53,790
So he says advance Dong and be 
recognized. 

772
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:58,710
And Raleigh says lower your 
finger sentry in windy weather 

773
00:45:58,710 --> 00:46:00,940
they clash together. 
Right. 

774
00:46:02,820 --> 00:46:08,740
And I'm wondering, is that an 
allusion to testicles? 

775
00:46:10,540 --> 00:46:12,580
Yeah, I think it could well be. 
I did wonder. 

776
00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:14,020
Actually, I did. 
Just as a general, probably a 

777
00:46:14,020 --> 00:46:15,820
good time to mention it. 
You've already mentioned on the 

778
00:46:15,820 --> 00:46:20,340
good ship Venus. 
I know when you were talking to 

779
00:46:21,340 --> 00:46:26,420
Molly, when you talked about 
string robbery a while ago, you 

780
00:46:26,420 --> 00:46:29,220
were talking about how the 
producer that hated them. 

781
00:46:30,030 --> 00:46:33,190
Tom Ronald and just had enough 
of one of the scripts and was 

782
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:35,990
cutting it to pieces. 
Obviously he thought it wasn't 

783
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:38,110
suitable. 
I mean, do you think that they 

784
00:46:38,110 --> 00:46:40,750
were getting a bit ruder at this
stage? 

785
00:46:40,830 --> 00:46:44,990
Because there are, you know, we 
just talked about the the Cat 

786
00:46:44,990 --> 00:46:48,150
badge and the good shit Venus 
and now we're talking about 

787
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:53,830
references to testicles and Dong
and it just seemed that they 

788
00:46:53,830 --> 00:46:55,070
were throwing quite a lot in 
there. 

789
00:46:55,070 --> 00:46:58,070
At this point I'm not sure, but 
but you know. 

790
00:46:58,670 --> 00:47:01,150
The other episodes better than I
do to know whether or not you 

791
00:47:01,150 --> 00:47:03,390
think there's a higher incidence
of filth. 

792
00:47:04,110 --> 00:47:06,510
There is definitely there's 
definitely creeping in and you 

793
00:47:06,510 --> 00:47:10,790
think of even even show titles. 
There's a show in Series 9 

794
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:16,310
called Who is Pink Oboe? 
And as we know you know the 

795
00:47:16,310 --> 00:47:20,350
Indian characters speaking in 
Urdu and using some dubious 

796
00:47:21,950 --> 00:47:24,470
phrases in Urdu. 
Although I don't speak Urdu but 

797
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:28,150
I believe that they there's some
you know they they by stealth. 

798
00:47:28,570 --> 00:47:32,930
Spike was slipping in some stuff
that would normally have got the

799
00:47:32,930 --> 00:47:36,970
blue pencil through it. 
Yeah, no, they were definitely 

800
00:47:37,810 --> 00:47:39,490
pushing. 
He was definitely trying to push

801
00:47:39,490 --> 00:47:40,930
the boundaries as much as he 
could. 

802
00:47:40,930 --> 00:47:42,810
I think. 
I think during the Peter Eaton 

803
00:47:43,010 --> 00:47:45,570
years, which was, which was 
pretty much the the golden 

804
00:47:46,170 --> 00:47:49,210
period sort of Series 5, Series 
six. 

805
00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:56,170
I think Peter Eaton was such a 
what's a taskmaster? 

806
00:47:56,170 --> 00:47:58,210
But he, you know, no nonsense he
was. 

807
00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:03,940
He was well respected by the 
goons but he would tear a strip 

808
00:48:03,940 --> 00:48:07,380
off them, I think, if he felt 
that they were crossing a line. 

809
00:48:07,540 --> 00:48:10,980
And they respected him enough to
allow him to tear a strip off 

810
00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:13,460
them as well, didn't they? 
That they, they they they fall 

811
00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:14,980
into line. 
Maybe because it was still 

812
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:18,620
relatively early as well. 
I suppose it's not, no, no, not 

813
00:48:18,620 --> 00:48:19,900
early. 
But when it's starting to become

814
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:22,900
successful, it's like kind of 
they knew where the because he 

815
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:25,380
certainly told Sellers off a 
strip a couple of times, didn't 

816
00:48:25,380 --> 00:48:27,140
he? 
But he fired some. 

817
00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:30,090
Yeah, yeah. 
During a show, I think it was 

818
00:48:30,090 --> 00:48:34,490
the international Christmas 
pudding during a I think it was 

819
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:39,850
Max's number or Ray's number. 
We're going to cover that show 

820
00:48:39,850 --> 00:48:42,570
later this year, so I'll come 
back to that. 

821
00:48:43,050 --> 00:48:47,170
But I know that Spike was was 
angling to get Peter Eaton back 

822
00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:52,850
as producer a number of times 
after Peter left. 

823
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,880
Because I think he went off to 
work for Granada, didn't he? 

824
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,000
Granada to Granada Television. 
Yeah, I think so. 

825
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,000
So Spike had a lot of time for 
him. 

826
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,680
And then obviously after Peter 
Eaton, they had Pat Dixon, who 

827
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,760
was a, he was a fine producer, 
but I think he's, he was kind 

828
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,680
of, he kind of just let them get
on with it to a degree. 

829
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,760
And then you have these, what do
you call it, mishmash of 

830
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,520
producers and lack of 
consistency. 

831
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,760
In series 8, you've got John 
Browell. 

832
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,880
In Series 9, who kind of worked 
on this show as one of those 

833
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,560
sort of technical boys 
previously. 

834
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,680
So he didn't have that. 
He didn't come on that level of 

835
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,440
sort of respect, I suppose, that
Peter Eaton did. 

836
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,480
So I think, I think with the 
departure, Peter Eaton Spike 

837
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,760
probably felt, well, I'll just, 
you know, I'll just see what I 

838
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,990
can get away with every week. 
Yeah, it definitely. 

839
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:43,070
Yeah. 
You've already referenced the 

840
00:49:43,070 --> 00:49:45,910
shiver, the braces and the lower
the Jane Mansfield bit, haven't 

841
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:49,590
you that that that's that's also
I think quite topical because 

842
00:49:49,870 --> 00:49:53,430
The Girl can't help it, which is
a big film came out in the UK in

843
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:55,950
57. 
So I think again that would sort

844
00:49:55,950 --> 00:50:00,430
of explain the topical reference
and also the bit about when 

845
00:50:00,430 --> 00:50:02,590
Peter Sellers is doing his sort 
of. 

846
00:50:03,850 --> 00:50:07,170
Extraordinary rustic accent. 
It's Swede isn't it? 

847
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:09,850
But he's doing a kind of Cornish
version of it. 

848
00:50:10,650 --> 00:50:13,290
And they say pizza seller is in 
his Bernard Miles set. 

849
00:50:14,290 --> 00:50:18,610
Bernard Miles was actually in 
Long John Silver when this was 

850
00:50:18,610 --> 00:50:19,450
on. 
It was on. 

851
00:50:19,530 --> 00:50:22,130
It was a repeat of the serial 
that they did on Sunday tea 

852
00:50:22,130 --> 00:50:24,170
time. 
So actually it would have been 

853
00:50:24,170 --> 00:50:27,010
on well just before they 
recorded this episode. 

854
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,080
Him playing Long John Silver, 
which I think he's probably 

855
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,480
influencing that. 
But of course Miles had kind of 

856
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,160
loads of connections with the 
Goons, didn't he? 

857
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,120
Because they. 
He was in the rent collectors 

858
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,280
episode. 
Yeah, and I think Milligan went 

859
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,640
on to play Ben Gunn in a 
version, state version of 

860
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,080
Treasure Island as well. 
And didn't he put the bed 

861
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,840
sitting room cuz he ran the 
mermaid theater? 

862
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:52,480
Didn't he put the bed sitting 
room on as well? 

863
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,730
So big. 
And he was in. 

864
00:50:56,690 --> 00:50:58,970
He was certainly in the smaller 
show on Earth with Peter 

865
00:50:58,970 --> 00:51:03,690
Sellers. 
Now there's a bit in this with 

866
00:51:03,690 --> 00:51:06,290
names in the script. 
Did you look at, did you get a 

867
00:51:06,290 --> 00:51:08,530
chance to look at the original 
script that's on the 

868
00:51:09,090 --> 00:51:11,330
encyclopedia Goonicus? 
I looked at it. 

869
00:51:11,330 --> 00:51:13,410
I kind of didn't. 
I looked at the transcript, and 

870
00:51:13,410 --> 00:51:17,530
I also looked at Goon at 
Milligan's own copy, which was 

871
00:51:17,530 --> 00:51:18,530
in there. 
But I didn't. 

872
00:51:18,530 --> 00:51:21,610
I what were the particular, what
were the thing about names in 

873
00:51:21,610 --> 00:51:23,570
there? 
So you've got the bit where. 

874
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,200
Segun is addressing the Ministry
of Works. 

875
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,800
About these excavations, we're 
cutting out in the tar do. 

876
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,440
You find any treasure thing? 
But. 

877
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,640
You know very well we're only 
digging down to see if the walls

878
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:45,120
of the tower are safe, but for 
the result of the failure, we 

879
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,040
didn't find any treasure. 
You. 

880
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,840
You couldn't have. 
You couldn't have been. 

881
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,260
You couldn't have been digging. 
Couldn't have been digging in. 

882
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:56,900
You couldn't have been digging 
in the. 

883
00:51:57,340 --> 00:52:00,340
You couldn't have been digging 
in the in the right place. 

884
00:52:05,420 --> 00:52:07,820
It was the right place, all 
right, but the treasure wasn't 

885
00:52:07,860 --> 00:52:10,100
there. 
The treasure buried in the wrong

886
00:52:10,140 --> 00:52:13,500
fly. 
Precisely. 

887
00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:18,060
And we dig there. 
Now I think it's the character 

888
00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:20,500
of Lou, the Jewish character, 
that. 

889
00:52:20,580 --> 00:52:22,260
Yeah. 
Sellers plays. 

890
00:52:23,250 --> 00:52:25,170
But again, in the script, and 
this has happened, I can't 

891
00:52:25,170 --> 00:52:27,370
remember which episode it was 
that we covered previously. 

892
00:52:27,730 --> 00:52:31,370
In the script, the character is 
down as malfeasance. 

893
00:52:32,050 --> 00:52:33,970
Right. 
Right. 

894
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:36,770
Okay. 
Which I don't understand. 

895
00:52:39,290 --> 00:52:41,810
And the character of the judge, 
you know, the judge that 

896
00:52:41,810 --> 00:52:44,210
sentences Netty to 10 years. 
Half. 

897
00:52:44,290 --> 00:52:48,690
Yeah. 
Now that voice is. 

898
00:52:50,530 --> 00:52:53,450
Commonly known, that voice is 
known as Sydney Mincing or 

899
00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:58,050
mincing. 
Yeah, OK, but in the script he's

900
00:52:58,050 --> 00:53:07,650
down as Slyn SLINN. 
So I'm not sure whether that was

901
00:53:07,650 --> 00:53:10,850
just shorthand that Spike put in
the script and said to Sellers, 

902
00:53:10,850 --> 00:53:12,010
you know that voice. 
You do. 

903
00:53:13,370 --> 00:53:15,330
Interesting. 
And malfeasance is weird, isn't 

904
00:53:15,330 --> 00:53:16,690
it? 
It's kind of in brackets, isn't 

905
00:53:16,690 --> 00:53:17,770
it? 
I'm just looking at it now. 

906
00:53:17,810 --> 00:53:21,800
The yeah, yeah. 
So what? 

907
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,360
What for you are the the strong 
points, scenes, jokes, lines? 

908
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,360
Well, I think we've took, I love
the the Blood knot stuff because

909
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,040
it's just lots of really nice 
things about, you know, you'll 

910
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,440
wait the centuries that all 
these kind of, I think that 

911
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,080
whole sequence works really 
well. 

912
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,360
But the, you know, you've 
already mentioned the standout 

913
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,960
bit I think is the echoes and 
Blue Bottle, but then they sort 

914
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,360
of get tipped over the edge into
hysteria. 

915
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:55,960
When Sellers has to put on his 
crunch kit, as he calls it, and 

916
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,760
suddenly they have this 
extraordinarily bizarre sequence

917
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:04,920
with Minnie and Henry and her 
brilliant divining, which only 

918
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:10,280
can do with a sort of steam 
organ that kind of powers up. 

919
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,000
And that tends to tip me over 
the edge slightly, particularly 

920
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,400
because I just find out, you 
know, some things just you find 

921
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,200
funny. 
I just find it when Min says 

922
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,860
Buddy. 
Funny for some reason it's just,

923
00:54:22,020 --> 00:54:24,620
it's just it's just kind of, you
know, you can hear it in this 

924
00:54:24,620 --> 00:54:27,740
then say it again and then it 
just sort of starts to tip you 

925
00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:31,220
over the edge slightly because 
it's just so weirdly incongruous

926
00:54:31,220 --> 00:54:34,900
and not I mean is it supposed to
be a sort of being down and with

927
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:37,900
it but it's already sort of 
becoming dated by that point and

928
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:42,180
it's like a weird American but 
you nonetheless persists with 

929
00:54:42,180 --> 00:54:44,460
it. 
Modern men, Modern. 

930
00:54:44,460 --> 00:54:46,020
Men. 
Exactly, Yeah. 

931
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,000
Miss Banister, Yes, Miss 
Banister here is a qualified 

932
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,640
Treasure Diviner with honors in 
steam and banjo. 

933
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,560
Good heavens to look at her. 
You'd never thought she'd ridden

934
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,840
a horse in her life. 
Get ready for my hairy divining.

935
00:55:04,330 --> 00:55:06,610
I just put on these cardboard 
bicycle clips. 

936
00:55:06,650 --> 00:55:11,450
Now I'm ready, buddy. 
I get on the rhythm organ. 

937
00:55:20,570 --> 00:55:22,530
Yeah, there's. 
I thought the. 

938
00:55:23,090 --> 00:55:27,530
I just really thought there was 
a lot of the sudden cuts between

939
00:55:27,530 --> 00:55:34,820
57 and 1600 and the use of. 
Greenslade Well, I thought all 

940
00:55:34,820 --> 00:55:35,980
of that worked really well in 
it. 

941
00:55:36,020 --> 00:55:38,220
And it just, I just, I didn't 
have. 

942
00:55:38,220 --> 00:55:40,660
I mean, if you listen, it's only
a few episodes on from the 

943
00:55:40,660 --> 00:55:44,780
opening episode of this series, 
Spawn, which I know it's got 

944
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:48,220
Dick Emery in it and I know it. 
It's, it is quite astonishing 

945
00:55:48,260 --> 00:55:51,380
how there's a kind of energy 
drop because Seacomm's not 

946
00:55:51,380 --> 00:55:53,740
there. 
It's quite startling actually, 

947
00:55:53,740 --> 00:55:57,060
because you know, it's very easy
to take Harry Seekin for 

948
00:55:57,060 --> 00:56:00,260
granted, I think, but it's the 
way that so many of the lines 

949
00:56:00,260 --> 00:56:02,970
fall flat. 
That you know that Secum would 

950
00:56:02,970 --> 00:56:07,610
have rung every bit out of it 
kind of clobbered it to the 

951
00:56:07,610 --> 00:56:11,730
ground until it was begging for 
mercy, which is what you usually

952
00:56:11,730 --> 00:56:15,930
did with lines and it just likes
and it's like halfway through 

953
00:56:15,930 --> 00:56:17,890
that you say it's like the crowd
have died. 

954
00:56:18,690 --> 00:56:21,250
You know it got this kind of 
like echoing kind of void. 

955
00:56:21,250 --> 00:56:25,530
And it's just some episodes that
I've heard in series 8 where the

956
00:56:25,530 --> 00:56:28,530
crowd get quite disengaged, the 
audience get quite disengaged 

957
00:56:28,530 --> 00:56:30,170
with it I think whereas some 
this one. 

958
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,240
Because it's got some real Bond 
storming gags in it and also as 

959
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:38,160
I say lots of the sort of 
topical references which are in 

960
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,000
there. 
It grabs them in there I think 

961
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,480
and and even through some of the
more, not every joke lands 

962
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,600
because it just gets so bizarre.
But the the, the audience seem 

963
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,040
to seem to be kind of like 
really with it and the energies 

964
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,440
there again. 
And while there's sometimes all 

965
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,600
the flights of fancy with the 
really great bits in series 5, 

966
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,860
sometimes in series 6. 
Where you get some isolated 

967
00:56:58,860 --> 00:57:01,500
spots of fantastic stuff like 
you get in the later episodes, 

968
00:57:01,900 --> 00:57:04,940
the energy of series 5 and 
series six, I think, and the 

969
00:57:04,940 --> 00:57:08,340
kind of pace. 
I think that there's more of 

970
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:12,700
that here than there is in some 
of the surrounding episodes, 

971
00:57:12,700 --> 00:57:15,180
which makes it, which makes it 
really good. 

972
00:57:16,180 --> 00:57:20,620
I like the fact that Blue Bottle
is really the the only 

973
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:23,180
character, the only regular 
character in the goons 

974
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:24,700
constantly breaking the 4th 
wall. 

975
00:57:25,890 --> 00:57:29,410
Yeah. 
For example, in this he's he's 

976
00:57:30,050 --> 00:57:32,850
he realizes that he thinks that 
he's on television. 

977
00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:35,450
Yeah, I love that he's. 
Looking around for the cameras 

978
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:38,010
and he says I can do my idiot 
waving to my friends at school. 

979
00:57:39,610 --> 00:57:42,810
Don't move Who has who? 
Who? 

980
00:57:45,490 --> 00:57:47,250
Are you? 
I am Sir Walter Raleigh. 

981
00:57:48,650 --> 00:57:50,650
He did the television for 
schools then. 

982
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,120
Cameras. 
I can do my idiot waving to my 

983
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,880
friends in school. 
Hello there, Harold Pratt. 

984
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,800
Hello, Mary Quills, Peter Cabri 
and Vera Millington. 

985
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,440
It's pivotal here. 
So the teacher we're being 

986
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,360
tomorrow. 
I'm just turning my back. 

987
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:22,870
Parliament. 
Well, I rally you, I said. 

988
00:58:23,830 --> 00:58:29,750
Never eat potatoes again. 
Thinks I'm drowning, so that's 

989
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:33,630
why I never eat potatoes again. 
It's because the line that leads

990
00:58:33,630 --> 00:58:38,350
into that is FAIN, Let us pass. 
I am so well to rally, which is 

991
00:58:38,350 --> 00:58:42,310
that really kind of hackneyed 
period speak, which is exactly 

992
00:58:42,310 --> 00:58:45,070
like the kind of kind of stuff I
imagine even worse in those 

993
00:58:45,070 --> 00:58:46,470
days. 
It used to get a television 

994
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:49,990
schools for television for 
schools adaptation of. 

995
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,520
Walter Raleigh discovering the 
potato. 

996
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:55,920
Or it would just be that kind of
dreadful thing. 

997
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,240
But he also says that thing 
about which, again, I thought 

998
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,760
was really funny with it. 
My mom, You've got problems with

999
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,280
your chest. 
My mom rubs mine with hot agony 

1000
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:07,960
oil, and now I'm assuming that 
wasn't an actual thing. 

1001
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,400
No. 
Well, no, I remember. 

1002
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,920
I don't know what it was called 
exactly, but I do remember 

1003
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:18,920
reading about a very popular. 
What's the word uncion? 

1004
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:20,480
Well, there was Vicks Vapor 
Roach. 

1005
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,800
Yeah, no, back in, I'm talking 
Victorian. 

1006
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,200
Oh, right. 
Sort of something. 

1007
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:30,600
And it had a real sort of 
medicine show type name, so it 

1008
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:35,320
might have been American Ma 
Bradley's. 

1009
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:41,000
Mar Bradley Something along the 
lines of Mar Bradley's Agony 

1010
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:41,520
Oil. 
Really. 

1011
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,920
All right. 
Something like that, yeah. 

1012
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,200
So that might be a thing. 
I just thought it was some kind 

1013
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,360
of terrible torture for Blue 
Bottle that they would it's 

1014
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:55,520
yeah, that's yeah, that bit is 
great when it's just like I 

1015
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,560
come, you know, I'm not in 1600.
I'm just in some terrible 

1016
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:02,280
television program is again, 
really great. 

1017
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,560
Well, he mentions his mum and 
then he does get Actually, I 

1018
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,080
think possibly the biggest laugh
of the show is is baby when he 

1019
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:14,680
says When echo says I'm in 1600 
and you're not born yet and Blue

1020
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,160
Bottle says cool, wait till I 
tell my mum Dad, my dad won't 

1021
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:24,560
have a copy. 
Who you who? 

1022
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,200
Which characters in the Goon 
Show are you fondest of? 

1023
01:00:30,630 --> 01:00:32,750
It's, I mean, I think it 
changes. 

1024
01:00:32,790 --> 01:00:35,870
I mean, if you'd have asked me a
while ago, I would have probably

1025
01:00:35,870 --> 01:00:39,430
said grip pipe thin because that
there's just something 

1026
01:00:40,430 --> 01:00:44,110
brilliantly restrained about the
performance of it. 

1027
01:00:44,110 --> 01:00:47,150
You know, it's obviously George 
Sanders and so on, but it's just

1028
01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:49,470
the way that he's doing these 
terrible, terrible things. 

1029
01:00:50,890 --> 01:00:53,810
But also remaining, remaining, 
this kind of sedating debonair. 

1030
01:00:54,130 --> 01:00:56,890
And even when I know you've 
talked about this before and and

1031
01:00:56,890 --> 01:00:59,010
Wilma I think probably was the 
first person to write about it, 

1032
01:00:59,010 --> 01:01:02,130
even when they're going through 
that extraordinary evolution the

1033
01:01:02,130 --> 01:01:05,650
grit pipes in and Moriarty have 
through the series. 

1034
01:01:06,890 --> 01:01:08,530
Well, yeah, sorry. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1035
01:01:08,530 --> 01:01:12,330
Evolution where basically at the
end of it, Moriarty's this sort 

1036
01:01:12,490 --> 01:01:17,420
of jabbering. 
Kind of creature like Caliban or

1037
01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:20,820
something from The Tempest kind 
of guys that far but then you've

1038
01:01:20,820 --> 01:01:24,140
got a grit pipe thin still even 
when wearing cardboard clothes 

1039
01:01:24,140 --> 01:01:27,860
and whatever he's doing some of 
our mate retains and I find that

1040
01:01:27,940 --> 01:01:34,260
very very funny generally and 
and and it just works really 

1041
01:01:34,260 --> 01:01:37,220
well. 
That kind of kind of contrast I 

1042
01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:40,140
find as I've been listening. 
To Sorry, Carrie, Sorry, sorry. 

1043
01:01:40,580 --> 01:01:43,980
That's Milligan's contempt for 
that sort of class of. 

1044
01:01:44,180 --> 01:01:46,450
Yeah. 
English gentleman, if you like, 

1045
01:01:46,690 --> 01:01:47,970
isn't it? 
Yeah, I think so. 

1046
01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:50,530
I think so. 
And then you've got another one 

1047
01:01:50,530 --> 01:01:54,130
that works again, it's and it's 
sort of slightly it's similar, 

1048
01:01:54,130 --> 01:01:57,210
but it's it's just a sheer force
of it and they don't get all 

1049
01:01:57,210 --> 01:01:59,050
hung up on the sellers 
characters because I love the 

1050
01:01:59,050 --> 01:02:01,610
others as well. 
But it's hard to resist blood 

1051
01:02:01,610 --> 01:02:05,530
knock sometimes I think because 
you just get this kind of this, 

1052
01:02:05,610 --> 01:02:08,050
but I don't kind of like the 
extraordinary entrance. 

1053
01:02:08,050 --> 01:02:09,730
I know he's got his own theme 
tune and everything. 

1054
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,200
But by this point, when he's 
making his ridiculous noises as 

1055
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,360
he enters, everybody in the cast
seems to be making the same 

1056
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,280
noises, don't they, as he comes 
in. 

1057
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,000
They're all sort of joining in 
all the time, and it's just kind

1058
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,280
of like there's just something 
kind of inherently funny about 

1059
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:26,560
that. 
But as we've been talking about,

1060
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:31,720
I think Min makes me laugh. 
And again, it's that I know that

1061
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:37,200
terrible, often time fillers 
when Min and Henry are having 

1062
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,320
these rambling conversations 
with each other. 

1063
01:02:40,150 --> 01:02:43,750
But if they sometimes they just 
really kick in to being 

1064
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:47,870
hysterically funny. 
And again, as I say, it's the 

1065
01:02:47,950 --> 01:02:51,350
Buddy sends me over the edge 
sometimes because it's so odd 

1066
01:02:53,270 --> 01:02:56,630
that I think they'd be the ones 
that, at the moment I 

1067
01:02:56,630 --> 01:03:01,950
particularly like. 
Just just on hand in hand, I 

1068
01:03:01,950 --> 01:03:04,910
just noticed and this sort of 
ties into what we were talking 

1069
01:03:04,910 --> 01:03:08,710
about earlier, There's a bit in 
the script that isn't in the 

1070
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:10,020
show. 
When? 

1071
01:03:10,020 --> 01:03:11,340
Well, when? 
When many. 

1072
01:03:11,340 --> 01:03:14,780
And in the show, she says I'll, 
I'll get ready for my hairy 

1073
01:03:14,780 --> 01:03:17,020
divining. 
Oh, the hairy is used a lot, 

1074
01:03:17,020 --> 01:03:19,220
isn't it? 
On the hairy, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1075
01:03:20,260 --> 01:03:23,540
I'll just put on these cardboard
bicycle clips in the in the 

1076
01:03:23,540 --> 01:03:25,540
script. 
In the script you've got Henry 

1077
01:03:25,540 --> 01:03:28,140
saying Min, you'd better get 
behind that screen to do that. 

1078
01:03:28,620 --> 01:03:31,220
We don't want to take risks with
the BBC sensors. 

1079
01:03:33,980 --> 01:03:40,400
Also you know the bit where. 
Says goodbye Neddy, and here's a

1080
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,440
sailor's farewell and shuts the 
door, but does a Raspberry. 

1081
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,440
But the Raspberry is not really 
committed, is. 

1082
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:47,760
It. 
No. 

1083
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,600
You can miss it, can't you? 
It's not. 

1084
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,640
It's not like a Harry Seeker 
Raspberry, is it? 

1085
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,120
Yeah. 
And I because it that wasn't in 

1086
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,040
the script. 
It wasn't in the script for him 

1087
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,760
to do a Raspberry just to shut 
the door. 

1088
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,160
And I'm just wondering whether 
it was just like the spare of 

1089
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,400
the moment. 
He just thought, oh, I'll just 

1090
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,840
do that, But he kind of fluffed 
it. 

1091
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:12,210
A sailor's farewell. 
And with the music Ray and Max, 

1092
01:04:12,450 --> 01:04:15,050
do you, did you, did you skip? 
Do you listen? 

1093
01:04:15,050 --> 01:04:16,890
What? 
Not well, generally speaking, if

1094
01:04:16,890 --> 01:04:19,530
I if I'm just sitting to listen 
to an episode, I will always 

1095
01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:22,010
listen to them. 
Sometimes if I'm coming back in 

1096
01:04:22,010 --> 01:04:26,010
the car, that my car journey 
back home, sometimes from work 

1097
01:04:26,610 --> 01:04:28,370
is not long enough for a full 
episode. 

1098
01:04:28,770 --> 01:04:31,410
So I I might skip them at that 
point. 

1099
01:04:31,410 --> 01:04:35,410
I mean, I think we probably need
to talk about Ray's song in this

1100
01:04:35,410 --> 01:04:39,400
one, don't we? 
Because it got substituted for 

1101
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,800
the transcription service, 
didn't it? 

1102
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,120
Why do we think is it? 
Was that just because of the 

1103
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,280
Chinese stuff, do we think? 
I think so. 

1104
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,840
I think it. 
Has to be so old, isn't it? 

1105
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:52,000
It's really strange. 
It is, yeah, because I was 

1106
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:57,280
familiar with the the 27 minute 
pick of the Goons version of 

1107
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:04,240
this show for the longest time. 
So so the the The Ray song in 

1108
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,160
the original show in the 
broadcast. 

1109
01:05:06,970 --> 01:05:10,130
Is how will I know? 
But yeah, there's this kind of 

1110
01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:14,290
Chinese, Chinese gibberish being
spoken at the beginning between 

1111
01:05:14,290 --> 01:05:16,210
Ray and Spike. 
I don't know where that even 

1112
01:05:16,210 --> 01:05:18,130
comes from. 
It's it's odd, isn't it? 

1113
01:05:18,250 --> 01:05:20,210
It's very peculiar. 
And even during the song they 

1114
01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:23,890
occasionally have sort of like 
Chinese kind of what symbols or 

1115
01:05:23,890 --> 01:05:28,610
noises, don't they? 
It's just a very peculiar thing.

1116
01:05:28,610 --> 01:05:32,210
They obviously decided to drop 
it quickly. 

1117
01:05:32,730 --> 01:05:34,650
Swiftly. 
Well, they they realized that it

1118
01:05:34,650 --> 01:05:35,930
could. 
But saying that. 

1119
01:05:38,020 --> 01:05:40,980
I suppose that got to be the 
reason it's not a very good 

1120
01:05:40,980 --> 01:05:43,980
song. 
Having said all that, I would 

1121
01:05:43,980 --> 01:05:49,660
say that the Max tune, nice work
if you can get it, is probably 

1122
01:05:49,660 --> 01:05:53,740
my favorite Max Galdray number 
in the history of the guns. 

1123
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:35,470
I think it's beautiful. 
Yeah. 

1124
01:06:36,310 --> 01:06:38,790
Let me get kind of mournful, 
yeah. 

1125
01:06:39,330 --> 01:06:40,690
No, it is. 
It's, it's good. 

1126
01:06:40,970 --> 01:06:43,450
I mean one of the things I 
always noticed about is not to 

1127
01:06:43,450 --> 01:06:47,370
take away from Galdray is the 
fact that if you're listening to

1128
01:06:47,370 --> 01:06:50,690
the goons in the car and you've 
got it at a certain volume and 

1129
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:53,330
Galdray comes on, it is the 
loudest noise there has ever 

1130
01:06:53,330 --> 01:06:56,410
been on the planet. 
It is unbelievable the amount of

1131
01:06:56,410 --> 01:06:59,890
times I've been driving down the
motorway down to the East 

1132
01:06:59,890 --> 01:07:02,690
Midlands and with a with a whole
load of goons kind of get going 

1133
01:07:02,690 --> 01:07:05,170
on there and suddenly every 
single time after leap. 

1134
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:08,190
To turn sound out otherwise 
they're gonna crash the car. 

1135
01:07:09,590 --> 01:07:11,110
But yeah, you're right. 
Because in this one it's 

1136
01:07:11,110 --> 01:07:13,310
actually different, isn't it? 
It's much more sort of mellow 

1137
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:17,030
and mournful. 
And he gets a conch 

1138
01:07:17,030 --> 01:07:20,150
introduction, doesn't he? 
As well from the old Dutch conch

1139
01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:21,870
doesn't say to say that before 
it starts. 

1140
01:07:22,590 --> 01:07:23,910
And all the PLU G. 
Stuff. 

1141
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:27,590
Yes, yeah. 
I said a couple of weeks ago, 

1142
01:07:27,590 --> 01:07:31,070
when we covered the fiendish 
plots of Dr. Fu Manchu, I 

1143
01:07:31,070 --> 01:07:34,510
mentioned that apparently 
sellers. 

1144
01:07:35,110 --> 01:07:41,510
Was angling for a small role in 
that film for Max, because 

1145
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:44,910
essentially the film was just 
Sellers trying to stage a goon 

1146
01:07:44,910 --> 01:07:46,990
show on film. 
It definitely was, wasn't it? 

1147
01:07:46,990 --> 01:07:49,390
Definitely. 
And I'm just trying to think 

1148
01:07:49,670 --> 01:07:53,950
what where Max might have 
figured in the film. 

1149
01:07:54,190 --> 01:07:57,270
And Max, have you heard Max 
trying to act? 

1150
01:07:57,510 --> 01:08:01,190
Yes, in the goons. 
He's dreadful. 

1151
01:08:02,780 --> 01:08:04,900
So I think he was raised pretty 
good, isn't he raised? 

1152
01:08:05,140 --> 01:08:08,980
Raised pretty good, but but, but
if you think Max is such a 

1153
01:08:08,980 --> 01:08:11,220
dreadful actor, he would have 
been perfect. 

1154
01:08:11,740 --> 01:08:17,020
For that film, it just yeah, my 
God. 

1155
01:08:17,779 --> 01:08:20,180
I think Sellers was just 
thinking, that's just to throw 

1156
01:08:20,180 --> 01:08:21,700
everything into the mix. 
Whatever. 

1157
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:23,859
Whatever occurred to him in the 
moment, you know? 

1158
01:08:23,899 --> 01:08:27,020
Yeah, get on the phone to Max in
California. 

1159
01:08:27,020 --> 01:08:28,819
Get him on a plane. 
Oh no, they were pretty filming 

1160
01:08:28,819 --> 01:08:29,740
in California. 
I don't know. 

1161
01:08:30,410 --> 01:08:33,450
Another in Paris. 
I think they filmed that anyway.

1162
01:08:34,810 --> 01:08:37,090
Now, the show also I mentioned, 
I alluded to this at the 

1163
01:08:37,090 --> 01:08:41,010
beginning. 
The show sees the debut of the 

1164
01:08:41,010 --> 01:08:44,130
line that Greenslade often would
subsequently deliver at the end 

1165
01:08:44,130 --> 01:08:47,250
of episodes. 
It's all in the mind, you know? 

1166
01:08:47,370 --> 01:08:48,770
Oh, is this the first time it 
was used? 

1167
01:08:48,770 --> 01:08:51,210
I didn't realize. 
Yeah, right. 

1168
01:08:51,210 --> 01:08:52,729
OK. 
Yeah, And. 

1169
01:08:52,729 --> 01:08:55,210
And it was Larry who came out 
with that phrase. 

1170
01:08:55,210 --> 01:08:56,850
Well, it was a phrase he'd 
heard. 

1171
01:08:58,090 --> 01:09:01,170
When he was doing commando 
training, it was instructors 

1172
01:09:01,170 --> 01:09:05,529
would shout that line regularly.
I guess is motivational, I don't

1173
01:09:05,529 --> 01:09:07,450
know. 
Oh, I see. 

1174
01:09:07,450 --> 01:09:09,250
So, like, it's not, it's not 
pain, That's all. 

1175
01:09:09,250 --> 01:09:11,290
That pain is all in the mind. 
It's probably that kind of 

1176
01:09:11,290 --> 01:09:13,729
thing, isn't it? 
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1177
01:09:13,729 --> 01:09:17,850
Work through the pain. 
But yeah, it would green. 

1178
01:09:17,850 --> 01:09:20,649
So I would very often, you know,
a show would end with that line 

1179
01:09:21,529 --> 01:09:24,569
usually, because there wasn't 
any other way of ending the 

1180
01:09:24,569 --> 01:09:26,330
show. 
There wasn't a natural finish. 

1181
01:09:27,540 --> 01:09:31,620
You know, cuz cuz the writing 
was getting to a certain extent,

1182
01:09:31,620 --> 01:09:34,580
getting lazier. 
So yeah, so that's this, that's 

1183
01:09:34,580 --> 01:09:36,899
the first instance of of that 
line. 

1184
01:09:37,020 --> 01:09:39,500
All right. 
It's all in the mind, you know. 

1185
01:09:42,020 --> 01:09:44,939
I'm a bit of a kind of, or 
certainly used to be, quite 

1186
01:09:44,939 --> 01:09:48,300
interested in the politics of 
this era, in particular kind of 

1187
01:09:48,340 --> 01:09:50,540
post war. 
There is a reference to 

1188
01:09:50,540 --> 01:09:52,380
Hailsham. 
Oh, yes. 

1189
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:56,160
And and again, this is this, you
know, I don't think it's got 

1190
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,480
quite the same kind of laugh, 
but nonetheless it's a laugh of 

1191
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:02,040
recognition because some 
someone's giving a terrible 

1192
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:05,480
speech kind of going, it's kind 
of rambling speech about the 

1193
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:07,840
Power, the pound, England 
forever and book. 

1194
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,360
It's of whitewash. 
And the line that made me laugh 

1195
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,800
when I heard it for the first 
time was I say Hailsham's 

1196
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:18,280
informed today fiery speeches 
like this will save the party 

1197
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,560
and that is a very specific 
reference. 

1198
01:10:21,450 --> 01:10:26,290
To the Tory conference in 
October, the same month when 

1199
01:10:26,370 --> 01:10:30,370
Lord Hailsham, hereditary peer 
who was made Tory party 

1200
01:10:30,370 --> 01:10:34,770
chairman, gave gave rabble 
rousing speeches, at least for 

1201
01:10:34,890 --> 01:10:40,290
as far as Conservative MPs in 
the Conservative peers in the 

1202
01:10:40,370 --> 01:10:43,570
50s could do. 
But he was perceived as a threat

1203
01:10:43,570 --> 01:10:46,410
to the then Prime Minister 
Macmillan and basically at his 

1204
01:10:46,410 --> 01:10:50,230
speech closing the conference in
October. 12th of October he rang

1205
01:10:50,230 --> 01:10:52,390
a bell. 
He picked a bell and started 

1206
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:56,150
ringing it and said let it ring 
more loudly, let it ring for 

1207
01:10:56,150 --> 01:10:59,070
victory. 
And the Daily Mail had this 

1208
01:10:59,070 --> 01:11:02,590
immortal headline the next day 
saying Hailshemism. 

1209
01:11:03,070 --> 01:11:08,430
The man with the bell draws big 
cheers for his hot gospeling and

1210
01:11:08,430 --> 01:11:13,770
overshadows the Prime Minister. 
So Hailsham at that point was 

1211
01:11:13,770 --> 01:11:17,290
sort of like really in the news,
which and presumably I think by 

1212
01:11:17,290 --> 01:11:20,410
the sound of Milligan held that 
kind of thing and contempt, the 

1213
01:11:20,410 --> 01:11:23,850
idea that this was a rabble 
rouser, you know, a registry 

1214
01:11:23,850 --> 01:11:27,690
peer of a certain age. 
He then went on to, before Tony 

1215
01:11:27,690 --> 01:11:31,090
bended, he dropped his, he 
resigned his peerage 

1216
01:11:31,290 --> 01:11:34,370
specifically to try and become 
leader of the Tory party, but 

1217
01:11:34,690 --> 01:11:38,110
didn't get it. 
Was he was his real name 

1218
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:39,390
Quentin? 
Hogg he was. 

1219
01:11:39,390 --> 01:11:43,030
He became Quentin Hogg again 
after he resigned his peerage. 

1220
01:11:43,310 --> 01:11:46,990
But then, in 1964, when the 
mysterious movements of how the 

1221
01:11:46,990 --> 01:11:49,150
Conservatives elected, they 
didn't elect their leaders. 

1222
01:11:49,150 --> 01:11:51,940
They just appeared. 
It was like the men in the Gray 

1223
01:11:51,940 --> 01:11:53,260
suits they used to call it. 
Yeah. 

1224
01:11:53,260 --> 01:11:56,020
So it was double shooting, 
wasn't it then, Yeah. 

1225
01:11:56,340 --> 01:11:57,420
Yeah, exactly. 
So. 

1226
01:11:57,460 --> 01:11:59,980
So he came out of nowhere and 
Hailsham didn't get it, and then

1227
01:12:00,300 --> 01:12:03,300
he retreated, licking his wounds
and ended up being made a life 

1228
01:12:03,300 --> 01:12:06,020
pier in 1970. 
But I just thought that was, 

1229
01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:07,460
again, it was one of these 
things where you got this 

1230
01:12:07,460 --> 01:12:14,020
fantastical episode with the way
that it kind of like unravels 

1231
01:12:14,020 --> 01:12:16,740
and kind of unrolls, but then in
it you've got these very 

1232
01:12:16,740 --> 01:12:20,180
specific, right up to date 
references. 

1233
01:12:20,750 --> 01:12:23,430
In there and of course as we've 
said right at the start based on

1234
01:12:23,630 --> 01:12:27,710
a specific article in the 
specific event, because I think 

1235
01:12:27,710 --> 01:12:31,070
that's that's the line you just 
mentioned about how they say, of

1236
01:12:31,070 --> 01:12:33,470
course we were just digging to 
test the safety of the walls, 

1237
01:12:33,670 --> 01:12:35,510
but it was a failure because we 
didn't find the treasure. 

1238
01:12:35,710 --> 01:12:38,030
Again, that's the sort of 
implication of that article, 

1239
01:12:38,030 --> 01:12:40,150
isn't it as well. 
You could read that, yes, we 

1240
01:12:40,150 --> 01:12:42,070
weren't really looking for 
treasure and by the way, we 

1241
01:12:42,070 --> 01:12:45,230
didn't happen to find it. 
It's that kind of when they 

1242
01:12:45,230 --> 01:12:48,190
obviously would have been 
desperately excited to come 

1243
01:12:48,190 --> 01:12:50,150
across it. 
Hailsham. 

1244
01:12:50,150 --> 01:12:53,550
Lord Hailsham. 
Yeah, I again, I've said this 

1245
01:12:53,550 --> 01:12:55,590
before. 
I repeat myself so often on this

1246
01:12:55,830 --> 01:12:57,750
podcast, John. 
I'm aware of it. 

1247
01:12:58,270 --> 01:13:01,910
But Lord Hailsham, to me is the 
payoff to at least a dozen to 

1248
01:13:01,910 --> 01:13:05,430
Ronnie's jokes. 
Yeah, I'm right in saying that, 

1249
01:13:05,430 --> 01:13:06,790
aren't I? 
He was kind of, he was a 

1250
01:13:06,830 --> 01:13:10,470
ubiquitous figure, particularly 
I think in the in the 50s and 

1251
01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:14,710
60s, but he was still around. 
He kind of constantly appeared 

1252
01:13:14,710 --> 01:13:18,510
in the in the 70s as well as 
this sort of old August. 

1253
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,400
Old stager, but he was a real 
each as far as the Tories had. 

1254
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,720
He was tried to be a rabble 
rouser, hence doing gimmicks 

1255
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:29,280
like ringing bells and talking 
about saving the party. 

1256
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:33,200
But it was it was a very kind of
yes, I think he was he was a 

1257
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:34,400
butt of jokes. 
He he kind of. 

1258
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,440
He couldn't keep himself. 
He was a strange kind of mix of 

1259
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:43,680
I'm a, you know, a member of the
peerage, I'm the bastion of 

1260
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:46,640
conservatism. 
But he could not resist getting 

1261
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:50,320
his face in the newspapers. 
And being there, so he was very 

1262
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:52,840
He was a ubiquitous figure. 
So I did make me laugh that he 

1263
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,320
cropped up in this very specific
context. 

1264
01:13:56,440 --> 01:13:58,640
Yeah. 
Well, OK. 

1265
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,360
Well I think we've, I think 
we've gone all over the shop but

1266
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:06,080
we've we've we've covered the 
show talked about a great it is,

1267
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:12,320
it is as I say one of the top, I
would say top top five certainly

1268
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:16,430
top ten probably top five. 
Series 8 going shows and if you 

1269
01:14:16,430 --> 01:14:18,910
haven't listened to it or you 
haven't listened to it for a 

1270
01:14:18,910 --> 01:14:23,190
while, check it out. 
It's on BBC Sounds, it's on 

1271
01:14:23,190 --> 01:14:27,630
YouTube, it's on Spotify and it 
is. 

1272
01:14:27,790 --> 01:14:31,670
Yeah, but like I say, you do 
need to sort of keep notes while

1273
01:14:31,670 --> 01:14:35,350
you listen to it to make sure 
that you keep up to speed with 

1274
01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:36,870
what's going on. 
I'm still not sure whether it 

1275
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:39,230
actually is logically watertight
or not. 

1276
01:14:39,780 --> 01:14:43,060
It's it's all feels like it, but
one of those things that gives 

1277
01:14:43,060 --> 01:14:44,820
the illusion of feeling like it 
might be. 

1278
01:14:46,060 --> 01:14:47,820
Yeah. 
As long as you don't look too 

1279
01:14:47,820 --> 01:14:49,580
hard. 
Yeah, I know. 

1280
01:14:49,580 --> 01:14:53,020
It's a favorite of friend of the
show Sean Gaffney. 

1281
01:14:54,100 --> 01:14:56,220
All right. 
Regular guest as well. 

1282
01:14:56,220 --> 01:14:59,220
I know he probably would have 
wanted to do this, but tough 

1283
01:14:59,220 --> 01:15:02,620
cheese, Sean. 
Oh, you might feel bad now. 

1284
01:15:02,940 --> 01:15:06,100
So Jonathan, thank you so much 
And what are you on Twitter? 

1285
01:15:06,700 --> 01:15:09,330
I'm world of telly. 
Yeah, it's a check out John on 

1286
01:15:09,330 --> 01:15:11,170
Twitter. 
So have you got anything coming 

1287
01:15:11,170 --> 01:15:12,850
up, any projects you're working 
on that you wanna? 

1288
01:15:13,490 --> 01:15:17,450
Yeah, I've got, I've been sort 
of taking kind of like taking a 

1289
01:15:17,450 --> 01:15:18,890
back. 
See, I haven't really done many 

1290
01:15:18,890 --> 01:15:21,810
sort of writing projects 
recently, but I've been, there's

1291
01:15:21,810 --> 01:15:29,130
a long gestating one about the 
TV soap opera Triangle that I'm 

1292
01:15:29,130 --> 01:15:33,930
working on and World of Triangle
is what that will be. 

1293
01:15:33,930 --> 01:15:36,290
So I'm hoping to find the time 
at last. 

1294
01:15:36,750 --> 01:15:41,070
To give that show it's due. 
Triangle of despair. 

1295
01:15:41,230 --> 01:15:43,710
The triangle, Well, that's one 
way of looking at it. 

1296
01:15:43,710 --> 01:15:46,790
Yes, it's so. 
Anyway, so they'll be, yeah, 

1297
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:51,230
watch this space for that one 
and we might be starting up 

1298
01:15:51,230 --> 01:15:54,870
something again to do with Tacky
on TV, which was the old podcast

1299
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:57,710
we used to do years ago, that 
sort of Doctor Who based 

1300
01:15:57,710 --> 01:16:00,120
podcast. 
Which we started many, many 

1301
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:05,200
years ago, but it's it's now as 
old men who doing it, trying to 

1302
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:08,440
organize our lives to find 
enough time to actually do it. 

1303
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,120
But other than that, yeah, so 
that will be coming, and I might

1304
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:14,520
still be on Twitter, but whether
Twitter will still be there is 

1305
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:16,800
anyone's guess at the moment. 
That's the only problem. 

1306
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,640
Yeah, by the by the way, I 
should have said triangle of 

1307
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:21,120
sadness. 
That was what I was trying to 

1308
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:24,160
think of. 
So that ruined the very weak. 

1309
01:16:25,070 --> 01:16:31,150
Yeah, Triangle now that had Kate
O'Mara sunbathing topless. 

1310
01:16:31,390 --> 01:16:32,830
That's what everybody remembers 
about it. 

1311
01:16:32,830 --> 01:16:34,910
But you know, there's so much 
more to Triangle than that. 

1312
01:16:35,670 --> 01:16:36,870
Sure there is. 
She was only in the first 

1313
01:16:36,870 --> 01:16:40,470
series. 
All right, Okay, All right, Job,

1314
01:16:40,470 --> 01:16:41,230
listen. 
Brilliant. 

1315
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:45,350
Great to have you back and we 
will certainly speak again. 

1316
01:16:45,550 --> 01:16:47,310
Yeah, great. 
Thanks a lot, Tyler.