1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,520
Peter Sellers was the only one 
wearing a suit, and Spike said 

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,320
We haven't got much money the 
goon, she says. 

3
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,960
But we decided to save up for a 
suit and we give it to Peter 

4
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:15,320
Sellers to wear. 
For the first three years, Peter

5
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,440
Sellers kept wearing it. 
You never, they never bought a 

6
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,280
second suit. 
And he said Harry Secombe was 

7
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,560
just left the army. 
He was very disorientated about 

8
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:25,800
clothes. 
He thought you had to go to the 

9
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,880
quartermaster Sergeant to get an
issue. 

10
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,560
He didn't know about shops. 
He'd go up to somebody in the 

11
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,640
street and said, hey mate, how 
much for that sweater? 

12
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,000
But anyway, that's what that's 
what, that's what Harry Secombe 

13
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,680
told us until Spike told him 
shops are to go into, not just 

14
00:00:41,680 --> 00:01:17,720
look at through the window. 
The Hello and Welcome to Goon 

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Pod, highlighting once again 
that podcasts require a highly 

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00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,080
skilled and talented host by 
being the exception that proves 

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the rule. 
This week we welcome back the 

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writer and man behind The 
Beatles, Liverpool. 

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More of that later. 
Mike Haskins. 

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And Mike is here to talk about 
someone who was very much part 

21
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,720
of the Goons in a Circle, 
certainly in the latter half of 

22
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,560
the 50s. 
A man who was linked to Spike 

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Milligan as a collaborator for 
more years than he might care to

24
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,240
remember, someone who's very 
much still with us as well and a

25
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:52,480
unique voice in post war British
comedy writing, John Andrebus. 

26
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Mike had met John on a 
professional footing a couple of

27
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times in the past and was keen 
to pay tribute to this rather 

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unsung hero who often gets 
overlooked despite a staggering 

29
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,040
body of work. 
Plays, radio and television 

30
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,400
scripts, movie scripts, books, 
screenplays, and several 

31
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goldfish recipes. 
Mike began by telling me that he

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00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,200
thought it would be a good idea.
You see, I thought this would be

33
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,960
a good idea. 
You very foolishly agreed with 

34
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me. 
But now I think he's, he's 

35
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fascinated because I'm 
fascinated by all these writers.

36
00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:28,320
But I'm not sure everyone else 
shares my fascination. 

37
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:29,680
But I think, you know, he's 
great. 

38
00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:36,000
But then you see, yeah, I 
realized I don't know as much 

39
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,880
about him as I should. 
So I went online. 

40
00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,080
I went to do a bit of research 
and would you believe that 

41
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,800
there's nothing on there or 
there's very, very little? 

42
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,240
You've met him. 
You've spent an hour in his 

43
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:47,840
company. 
I've. 

44
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,800
Spent, I've spent a few hours in
his company. 

45
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,360
What this was so 20 years ago 
when people used to give me 

46
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,960
these kind of jobs. 
I did a couple of kind of 

47
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,360
documentary short series for 
Radio 4. 

48
00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:03,360
So we did one on Associated 
London scripts. 

49
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,040
And last time I, you, you were 
kind enough to have me on here, 

50
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,640
Tyler, we were talking about 
Associated London scripts. 

51
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,640
And so we had John on that and 
we spoke to Ray and Allen and 

52
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,160
all these people. 
That was great. 

53
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,080
And then a little while after 
that, we did a thing on Larry 

54
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,880
Stevens, because again, me 
celebrating writers who have not

55
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,120
as celebrated as they should be.
So John presented that. 

56
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,240
And so I, I got to do a little 
bit of a script work with John, 

57
00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:33,240
which was fantastic. 
As you know, I'd known his name 

58
00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:39,480
for many, many years going back 
to the the 70s and what it was, 

59
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,840
was I remember going on these 
stories so often they go back to

60
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,240
me going on holiday with my mum 
and dad in the 1970s. 

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00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,400
And this is when I discovered 
all of this kind of comedy. 

62
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,200
But I remember we were going on,
you know, another interminable 

63
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,480
Dr. I think down to the New 
Forest and it wasn't in 197475 

64
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,920
or something like that. 
And I just remember we'd 

65
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,040
stopped, you know, in some kind 
of lay by somewhere on the trip 

66
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,800
down and I'd taken for my 
holiday reading the Bedsitting 

67
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:17,279
Room, you know, because, yeah, 
it was in that little series of 

68
00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,000
Milligan books that they had 
published by Tandem. 

69
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:23,920
And I had all of them. 
I'd just been a Milligan and 

70
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,520
book of bits and bedside 
Milligan, all these things. 

71
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,080
And one of them was the 
Bedsitting Room. 

72
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,760
So I was about 11 years old 
sitting in this lane pie and 

73
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:36,720
start reading the bed sitting 
room. 

74
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,440
And you know, it was a bit what 
is this? 

75
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,400
You know, 'cause obviously I've 
got my Gundjo scripts book, 

76
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,160
which again, we've spoken about 
on the on the pod previously, 

77
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,360
but this was a kind of slightly 
harder work to read the play 

78
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,000
squid. 
I don't know how many of you 

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00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,720
presumably have a copy of this 
to you somewhere. 

80
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,080
The bed sitting. 
Room I do have but not not with 

81
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,080
me. 
Now I have one back home in in 

82
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,320
my dad's house. 
Oh, right. 

83
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
It was not the easiest holiday 

84
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,520
reading. 
I think the following year I 

85
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,840
took The Rats by James Herbert 
and between you and me that was 

86
00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:13,040
a bit more of a page Turner to 
be honest. 

87
00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:17,920
Oh yes, bit cheerier as well. 
And and then because I was 

88
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,080
thinking about the other thing 
which came back to my mind, 

89
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,280
which is terrible, which is I 
remember we go down and they 

90
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,360
wouldn't my mum and dad, they 
wouldn't book anywhere in 

91
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,280
advance. 
So you're driving down to the 

92
00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:30,080
other end of the country. 
We've got nowhere to stay. 

93
00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,080
Anyway. 
We ended up in this this place. 

94
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,240
And they didn't have an en suite
bathroom. 

95
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,160
It was in the days before that. 
But they're the next best thing.

96
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,160
Tyler, this is not a happy 
memory for me. 

97
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,840
They had under the bed. 
Guess what they had? 

98
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,480
They had a PO. 
They had a chamber pot inside. 

99
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,600
Yeah, yeah. 
Not so happy memories of of that

100
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:53,920
being used in the middle of the 
night. 

101
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,560
That's anyway we're because I'm 
sharing a room with my mum and 

102
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,400
dad. 
Anyway. 

103
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,160
Never mind. 
Anyway, let's banish all that 

104
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,120
and get back. 
With the scars of your 

105
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,320
childhood. 
Yeah, I know. 

106
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,640
So it's just funny these things 
are associated with with that, 

107
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,320
but there we are. 
So yeah, I went online and yeah,

108
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,440
there's not that much for him. 
So I think, you know, we're 

109
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,360
going to have to spend the rest 
of the the hour with me reading 

110
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,120
his Wikipedia entry. 
Oh, no, absolutely. 

111
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,200
And then to me not. 
No, you're quite right. 

112
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,320
Because then we can make up the 
time by reading the entry for 

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00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,000
John Entrebus, the English 
clergyman and cricketer who died

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00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,400
in 1878. 
So. 

115
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,480
No, we're not. 
No, we're not. 

116
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:32,840
We're not. 
Let me tell you my earliest 

117
00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:36,480
memories of John Entrebus. 
Or, or the name John Entrebus, 

118
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,520
because I'd never heard of him 
until I got into the goons. 

119
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:46,000
His name was credited as as Co 
writer on 2 gun shows. 

120
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,880
The the spawn plague of course. 
Yes, which I'm sure we'll come 

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00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,920
back to that at some point. 
And the great statue debate. 

122
00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,040
Yeah. 
Which were which were both 

123
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:03,800
broadcast in March 1958. 
Yes, my other memory of him. 

124
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,280
If if somebody says to me, John 
Entropus, I don't automatically 

125
00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:11,640
think, for example, like you 
that the bed sitting room I had 

126
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,560
taped so soon after I got into 
the goons. 

127
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,320
I was scouring the, the, the TV 
and radio listings magazines 

128
00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,640
that we had where I was growing 
up every week looking for 

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00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,760
anything Milligan or Sellers or 
seek him or even Banty related, 

130
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:33,640
you know, and, and the national 
radio station that we had in in 

131
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,160
New Zealand that was kind of a 
bit like a sort of a mix between

132
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,280
Radio 2 and Radio 4 in terms of 
the it's content. 

133
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,560
More like Radio 4, I suppose. 
Yeah. 

134
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,600
And they played a lot of 
British, you know, sorry, BBC 

135
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:48,920
dramas and comedy and, and what 
not. 

136
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:55,560
And I remember taping this 
curious little 13 minute radio 

137
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,240
play. 
Yes, you sent me this. 

138
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,160
Called Yeah, and I've I was 
looking for it for ages. 

139
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,600
I couldn't track it down and I 
finally found it today online. 

140
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,160
Bizarrely, it's called 
Dinosaurs. 

141
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:13,440
Yes. 
And it was a Radio 3 mini play, 

142
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,520
but it was kind of improvised or
at least semi improvised. 

143
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,000
And it's it's John Entrevis and 
Spike Milligan. 

144
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,400
Spike playing Playing is sort of
officious kind of museum well. 

145
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,080
What museum? 
Museum curator What it is? 

146
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,560
Curator. 
Yes. 

147
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,840
Can I take a photograph? 
Yes. 

148
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,919
Oh, thank you. 
Oh, hey, here. 

149
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,159
You you can't take photographs 
of the attendance. 

150
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,000
You just said I could. 
No, that was the dinosaur. 

151
00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:45,520
I'm not interested. 
Listen, you come here to look at

152
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,560
a dinosaur, you've got no right 
to take my photograph. 

153
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:49,360
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

154
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,440
If you stand over here, I'll 
take the dinosaur in the 

155
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,040
background. 
That would be nice. 

156
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,000
No, Sir. 
Why not? 

157
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,200
Well, it is at my discretion 
that you take photographs. 

158
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,000
And you are not allowed to take 
photographs of the attendance. 

159
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,360
I like to catch you in your 
natural environment. 

160
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,960
That none of that, so I won't 
have it not being photographed. 

161
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,400
Now, you, Sir, kindly look at a 
dinosaur and move on. 

162
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,560
See, that was vegetable eaters. 
Some of them, they died of 

163
00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:17,000
loneliness. 
Did you know that? 

164
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,840
Loneliness. 
That and overcrowding. 

165
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,240
It made them nervous, being 
overcrowded. 

166
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,120
And their eggs got thinner and 
thinner. 

167
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,680
Like the chicken today. 
Today the chicken is near 

168
00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:30,520
extinction and there's never 
been so many of them. 

169
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,760
How about that? 
See, next time you crack an egg,

170
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,360
you see how lonely that that egg
is. 

171
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:40,840
The shell is is very thin. 
Now, that is a sure sign that 

172
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,480
they're near extinction. 
Now, I don't want to come in 

173
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,280
here. 
I'd see a chicken skeleton next 

174
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,680
week. 
And you guard in it a chicken 

175
00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:51,040
skeleton roped off and you 
telling me it's extinct. 

176
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,200
Move. 
So please. 

177
00:09:54,760 --> 00:10:00,120
John's doing the lion's share of
the talking and it's, it's 

178
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:01,600
whimsical, isn't it? 
It. 

179
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,960
Is, yeah, I had a little listen 
to it today, but now I missed 

180
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:05,920
that. 
I didn't know about that. 

181
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,600
That would have been right up my
street back in the 70s because I

182
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,680
think that's from about 7475, 
isn't it? 

183
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:13,760
So I don't know. 
Yes, I missed that 75 because 

184
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,360
every. 
Week I would be scouring the 

185
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,480
Radio Times for just that sort 
of thing. 

186
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:18,720
But it was on Radio 3, wasn't 
it? 

187
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,080
One of those ones tucked away. 
Tim Worthington must cover it in

188
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,000
his book, surely? 
I'm sure he must be there 

189
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,160
somewhere. 
So Yep. 

190
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:33,080
So John Andropus is a curious 
Cove because he's worked with so

191
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,960
many great writers. 
I'm not saying he's not a great 

192
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,880
writer, but just in terms of 
names that people know, like 

193
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,880
Spike, of course, like Galton 
and Simpson. 

194
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,800
Or at least did he write with 
just Ray? 

195
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:47,920
He wrote. 
With Ray, after Alan Simpson 

196
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,880
retired and became a became a 
restaurant critic or something 

197
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,000
like that, whereas Ray Galton 
just loved to write every day. 

198
00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,280
So he carried on. 
And yeah, so Ray obviously liked

199
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,600
to have somebody to collaborate 
with. 

200
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,520
So he he worked with John 
Entropus. 

201
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:10,560
So I remember late 1980s they 
had a play on down the road here

202
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,960
at Theatre Cluid and it was 
called When Did You Last See 

203
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,640
Your Trousers? 
And I can't remember a huge 

204
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,920
amount about it, but yeah, I 
remember going on to see it 

205
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:21,960
well. 
He wrote with Johnny Spade, of 

206
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,360
course, as well, and people like
Talbert Rothwell and Norman 

207
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,720
Hudis and the the Carry On 
writers. 

208
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,720
And he's kind of written with 
with a lot of big names. 

209
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,320
And of course he was very much 
part of it. 

210
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,320
That whole ALS, yeah. 
Very much. 

211
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,760
I mean, he's one of the first 
people who arrive to associate 

212
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,800
the London scripts when they set
this, this writers thing up in 

213
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,360
the mid 50s and he turns up and 
he's only about 21 years old, 

214
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,520
isn't he, when he turns up. 
In fact, one reason why we're 

215
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,360
doing this, of course, is he was
21 years then, he is now. 

216
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:57,560
How old is he? 
Tied? 

217
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:02,040
He's 92, isn't he? 
July this year, so 2025. 

218
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,080
John Entrebus was born 2nd of 
July, 1933. 

219
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,680
So by a process of mathematics, 
it's his 92nd birthday. 

220
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,000
Born in 1933, the year Hitler 
became German Chancellor, the 

221
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,840
year King Kong with Faye Ray was
released. 1933 is so long ago. 

222
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,560
It's the year Joan Collins was 
born. 

223
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,520
Also Michael Caine, Yoko Ono. 
They're all born in 1933. 

224
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,640
Basically everyone born in 1933 
is still alive. 

225
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,440
It's an incredible everyone. 
Everybody, at least at the time 

226
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,720
of recording. 
It'd be terrible if they all go 

227
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,400
in between now. 
Oh, it'll be a tribute to them. 

228
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,280
Tribute. 
Hopefully not. 

229
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,720
Hopefully not, but it is. 
It's an an incredible age. 

230
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,280
But yeah, so he's he's like the 
youngster at Associated London 

231
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,880
Scripts and he comes in and the 
other thing I should say that 

232
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,880
I'm going to refer to as we 
speak today, I have got a 

233
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,200
wonderful book by John and it is
called Surviving Spike Milligan.

234
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,120
And it is, it's a book he 
published, I suppose soon after 

235
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,280
Spike died trying to cash in. 
But yeah, A Voyage Through the 

236
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,360
Mind and Mirth of the Master 
Goo. 

237
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,800
And I think it's a really nice 
book. 

238
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,520
And it's not a biography of 
Spike, you know, like there were

239
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,720
a few Spike biographies out 
there. 

240
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,800
It's not like that. 
It's not a kind of birth to 

241
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,720
death thing. 
But for me it's it's wonderful 

242
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,880
because it's it's like John sort
of taking you into this world of

243
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,480
associated London scripts and 
what it was like to go in there 

244
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:40,080
in the 1950s and just really 
kind of evoking that world. 

245
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:44,360
So, you know, it's a lovely book
and get the impression that he 

246
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,960
goes in there and he's 21 and 
obviously he's very, very good 

247
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,000
to get in there. 
Because for my money, you know, 

248
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,920
as we, as we were saying last 
time when we talked about 

249
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,760
Associated London Script, they 
have a few people who come in. 

250
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,120
Johnny Spate is the one that 
they all come always rave about.

251
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,840
John Angeman says he was a 
Stalinist, wasn't he? 

252
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,480
That's right, even. 
After Stalin and died when all 

253
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,120
these terrible crimes were 
coming out. 

254
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,760
But no, he was very into all 
that, wasn't he? 

255
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,600
But yeah, so I think he shares 
an office with Johnny Spate at 

256
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,200
first. 
I think he talks about this in 

257
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,880
the in the interview about. 
I mean, he gets there and he, 

258
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,520
you know, Johnny Spate is out at
lunch, of course, having a 

259
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,440
drink. 
And he just starts typing. 

260
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,200
John starts kind of working on 
whatever script it is rather 

261
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,880
than thinking, oh, better wait 
till Johnny comes back and I'll 

262
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,000
start writing the script for 
him. 

263
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,040
Now he talks about Johnny. 
Johnny Spate's first joke was 

264
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:47,640
for Edmundo Ross, and his first 
joke ever on the radio was snow,

265
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,760
Snow, Quick, quick snow. 
I mean, you know, those were the

266
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,920
days when you could launch a 
career on on something like that

267
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,040
and. 
A few that's better than my 

268
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,880
material a few years. 
Later, Johnny Spate was driving 

269
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,880
around in a Rolls Royce. 
Snow, snow, quick, quick snow. 

270
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,800
And Mando Ross, of course, the 
star of Mr. Ross and Mr. Race. 

271
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,120
And maybe that with Ray 
Ellington and Mando Ross and Ray

272
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,320
Ellington. 
The point I was making was just 

273
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,880
that John Andrews is my favorite
of all those other writers who 

274
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,280
come in to to associate the 
London scripts. 

275
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,040
I mean Terry Nation as well. 
But John entrepreneur, some of 

276
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,840
us thought is very interesting 
because, you know, I knew we'd 

277
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,560
written the bed sitting room 
spike because I had that. 

278
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,120
And then the other things were 
there was there was the Milligan

279
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,880
preserved LP. 
So I got that. 

280
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,160
You've spoken about the podcast,
but there's a Little John 

281
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,680
Entropist sketch on that. 
Actually, that was my favorite 

282
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,080
sketch on that, on that, on that
LP. 

283
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,880
Hit Parade. 
Hit Parade. 

284
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,560
How did this hitting hobby 
start? 

285
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,120
Well, it was quite similar 
really. 

286
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,200
See when I would retired from 
the coatworker at Neesden, I've 

287
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,880
got time on me and see and not 
to mention recreation. 

288
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,040
Recreation. 
I told you not to mention that. 

289
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,880
Oh, I'm sorry. 
When I was sitting in the front 

290
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,280
garden on the wall and I had my 
half hour off with Bert. 

291
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:15,480
With Bert. 
That's me. 

292
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,040
You need to help me, I said. 
When I your name. 

293
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:20,360
No, Sir. 
Your Lisa. 

294
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,240
It's my story, Sir. 
I told it. 

295
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,520
Now I'm walking down the road 
and I'm pondering on this and I 

296
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,120
see an old lady coming up toward
me. 

297
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,400
And as she approached, suddenly 
I thought it. 

298
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,200
Wallet. 
Wallet. 

299
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,800
Down she went. 
And I'd started my new hobby. 

300
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,920
I see. 
Well, I mean, didn't anybody try

301
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,240
to stop you? 
Yes, Sir. 

302
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:46,440
Yes. 
Yeah. 

303
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,960
Park official. 
Didn't he object? 

304
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,640
No, I am too, Sir. 
Well, I was well satisfied. 

305
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,520
I mean, that was too on the 
first day. 

306
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:55,960
That's quite a good start, I 
thought. 

307
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,720
Especially in the points system 
I work out. 

308
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,480
He's quite sort of Peter Cook 
like in that, isn't he? 

309
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,599
And but of course, 1961, it's 
Peter Cook is only just getting 

310
00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:06,920
going, isn't He's from young, 
but maybe it seemed to be on the

311
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,359
Fringe, I don't know. 
He isn't. 

312
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:09,440
You know what? 
When I was listening to 

313
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,480
dinosaurs, Yeah. 
There's an element of that, 

314
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,200
yeah. 
But also also I was getting, I 

315
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,160
was getting a David Welliams 
Survive film from John Andrews. 

316
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,040
Well, Betty. 
'S never been compared to David 

317
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,680
Walliams before. 
We're not going to go through 

318
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,920
his whole life but but he came 
from quite sort of lofty 

319
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,320
beginnings. 
He was a Sandhurst he was at. 

320
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,520
Sandhurst, his dad was in the 
army, so he sort of felt he had 

321
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,480
that in common with Spike. 
The interesting thing is now, 

322
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,760
because John Antrebus used to 
seem so young compared to Spike,

323
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,800
but now Antrebus is still with 
us, There's only actually 15 

324
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,440
years between him and Spike, 
isn't that? 

325
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,000
But yeah, so because Spike's dad
was in the military in India, 

326
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,120
John Entrevis's dad was was in 
the military here. 

327
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,280
So I think he was born, say he 
was born at Woolwich Arsenal or 

328
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,880
something. 
He was born in Woolwich. 

329
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,200
And yeah, he goes to Sandhurst. 
And when? 

330
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,160
We were at Sandhurst, we used to
rush from the dining room to 

331
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,560
catch the latest episodes of of 
the Goon show. 

332
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,280
And I then I didn't know that I 
would one day at least write a 

333
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,560
couple of them with, with Spike 
and continue writing Goon humour

334
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,840
with him on and off, you know, 
through the years. 

335
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,200
So there you are. 
But I was determined to be 

336
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,520
famous at something I thought I 
might when I left Santos, I 

337
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,400
thought I might be a famous 
fisherman. 

338
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,680
So I went to Brixham to go on 
the trawlers, but they didn't 

339
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,720
have one available for me and I 
didn't have the, the Weddington 

340
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,240
boots, the long boots. 
So I, I cut and run and I came 

341
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,080
back to London and decided to be
a famous writer instead and 

342
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,560
famous comedian. 
But it took days, I tell you, 

343
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,160
days to achieve it. 
And he? 

344
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,280
Talks about it a bit in the 
interview I did with him about 

345
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,760
how he he discovered he didn't 
want to kill people. 

346
00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:01,040
So he leaves Sandhurst and 
eventually he ends up at at 

347
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,880
Associated London Scripts. 
And I think it's, was it via 

348
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,320
Bill Kerr's mother-in-law or 
something? 

349
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,800
Is that it or Bill Kerr's 
mother? 

350
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,800
No. 
His mother or or his? 

351
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,000
Was it his mother-in-law? 
I'm not sure it was one of. 

352
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,280
Those anyway. 
Some someone, a lady, related in

353
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,960
some respect to Bill Kerr. 
Yeah. 

354
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,120
Oh, right. 
So I suppose from the from his 

355
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,160
landlady put him in touch with 
Bill Kerr. 

356
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,160
Bill Kerr puts him in touch with
Ray and Allen and I think he 

357
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,880
wrote a kind of, you know, trial
sort of Hancock script. 

358
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,080
I mean, you know, that's sort of
test Hancock script. 

359
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,640
And so that's what got him in. 
And you do get the impression 

360
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,600
that, you know, especially 
reading the surviving Spike 

361
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,760
Milligan book, you know, that 
Spike has quite a soft spot for 

362
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,200
him. 
If you look on the Wikipedia 

363
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,560
entry of John it, but it says 
Spike didn't like him. 

364
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,240
I don't think that's true at 
all. 

365
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,200
I don't know he's popped out, 
but that seems. 

366
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,280
Yeah. 
But it's foolish. 

367
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,680
To be fair, yeah, I'm fair. 
He he was very close to Larry 

368
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,400
Stevens, wasn't he? 
Spike as well? 

369
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,640
And yeah. 
And then he wasn't. 

370
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,720
Yeah. 
Well, I think, you know, don't 

371
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,560
take something that Spike says 
on one day as being like the 

372
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,040
definitive word. 
Here are this is how the book 

373
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,120
starts. 
This is his book Surviving 

374
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:16,200
Spike. 
There was Spike, there was me, 

375
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,400
then there was me and Spike. 
There was history. 

376
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,560
There was war. 
There was Spike as a soldier. 

377
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,160
There was me as a schoolboy, 
Then there was me and Spike 

378
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,720
writing together. 
It's also written this slightly 

379
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,840
poetic sort of way and. 
Yeah, listeners, I must point 

380
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,640
out, by the way, I do apologize,
but because of my workload and 

381
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,960
whatnot, I wasn't able to find 
the time to read this. 

382
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,160
Book, don't worry. 
Neither have I, don't worry 

383
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,000
about that. 
So I've I've had to put the the 

384
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,640
burden on Mike. 
No, not at all. 

385
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,040
No, no, it's, it's, yeah, I 
mean, it's difficult to get hold

386
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,280
of this book. 
This book was actually 

387
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,080
recommended to me. 
Wait for this. 

388
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,240
It was recommended to me by 
Dennis Nord of all people. 

389
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,280
So that's, that was good. 
Yeah. 

390
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,600
Because it was when we were 
doing the Associated London 

391
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,000
Scripts programme. 
And I think Dennis just really 

392
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600
loved this book because he just 
brought those times back. 

393
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,280
So he said, oh, we've got to get
this. 

394
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,680
And I have my copy here signed 
to Mike. 

395
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,200
This book cures trench foot. 
Best wishes. 

396
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,600
John Andrebus. 
So that's that's very nice. 

397
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,920
It's signed by John. 
Well, I've not had it since 

398
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,800
since I got this book. 
So I had my bed bedsitting room.

399
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,880
I had the Milligan preserved LP.
And then the next thing my dad 

400
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,000
came home one day and he got a 
record he borrowed off someone. 

401
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,080
And it was Muses with Milligan, 
which was ATV series Milligan 

402
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,920
had done in the, I guess, the 
early 60s, and he had a lot of 

403
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,000
kind of poets on it. 
Charles Causley, John Bechman, 

404
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,400
Kingsley Amis, all these people.
Robert Graves, of course, he's 

405
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,560
great mates with. 
Was he? 

406
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,040
Stephen Spender was on it. 
That's a great mix, Milligan and

407
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,320
Steve Limender. 
The LP, though, doesn't have any

408
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,360
of those people. 
It's just Milligan doing his own

409
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:00,600
pose. 
But there's one again. 

410
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,800
There's one thing, which is John
Entropus story Chickens, which 

411
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,200
is a strange little story, but 
yeah, brilliant. 

412
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:12,000
What is it about anthropists 
that attracted Spike, or that 

413
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,640
made Spike want to work with him
on such a regular occurrence? 

414
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,480
I don't know. 
It's interest, I suppose, 

415
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,960
because he's younger. 
So there's that. 

416
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,360
And he's he is somebody who's 
kind of sort of really in tune 

417
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:28,680
with Spike. 
I guess there's all these kind 

418
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,760
of details in in the book, you 
know, all these moments where 

419
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,400
John comes into the office. 
And I think it's Pam Virtue, 

420
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,400
who's Beryl Virtue's sister. 
And she's the receptionist now. 

421
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,680
And so you can't go up there 
now, John, because, you know, 

422
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,320
Spike's not seeing anybody 
today. 

423
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,920
But then John will go up and 
this happens again and again. 

424
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,960
He's the one person that Spike 
will see. 

425
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,080
And they sit down and sometimes 
Spike will send him out for some

426
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,400
jammed doughnuts, which is the 
thing that they show on the 

427
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,680
front of the book. 
There's a jam doughnut with 

428
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,000
sailing across the sea with a 
little kind of Spike Milligan 

429
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,280
sail sticking out of the top of 
the out of the jam doughnut. 

430
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,120
So this this seemed to help. 
I don't know if there's any kind

431
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:12,920
of study of this. 
You know, if you're, if you're 

432
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,280
suffering from whatever it is 
bipolar or whatever it is. 

433
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,280
That's if you have a lot of kind
of Big Sugar rush, this will 

434
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,560
kind of cheer you up or 
something. 

435
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,480
But anyway. 
But there, there's there's a 

436
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,280
story I read somewhere, kind of 
bittersweet story about Milligan

437
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,120
and Anthropus at ALS, and it 
just speaks volumes about Spike,

438
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:39,480
really. 
Spike noticed that even into 

439
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,320
Anthropus's office at ALS and 
saw there was a goldfish in a 

440
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,880
bowl That's. 
Right. 

441
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,240
He does talk about this in the 
book. 

442
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,200
Yeah, and it was not being well 
looked after. 

443
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,840
And, and yes, there'd been two. 
There'd been three of them 

444
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,240
originally. 
Two of them had died. 

445
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,680
Yeah. 
And Spike went off anyway. 

446
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,240
And then Anthropus went out, you
know, for a pint at lunchtime 

447
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,600
with probably Johnny Spate. 
And when he came back, the, the 

448
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,920
goldfish and the goldfish bowl 
had gone. 

449
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,240
And it turned out that Spike had
taken it, got a taxi to London 

450
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:14,720
Zoo. 
That's right, taking the 

451
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,120
goldfish. 
And even though he was busy 

452
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,600
doing, you know, writing goon 
shows and whatnot. 

453
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,880
And then eventually Spike turns 
up back at the office empty 

454
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,560
handed and John says, where's 
the goldfish? 

455
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,400
And Spike said they had to put 
it to sleep and was was almost 

456
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,280
sorrowful about it and then went
into his office and shut the 

457
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,280
door and no one saw him again 
for the rest of the day. 

458
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,440
That's. 
It isn't it? 

459
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,160
Yes. 
Now that's quite. 

460
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,720
He does tell that story in the 
book. 

461
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:46,240
And yeah, just, I think he, you 
know, he was on the deadline as 

462
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,720
well as Spike, so he didn't have
time to do this at all, but goes

463
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,200
up to London Zoo to try and save
the goldfish. 

464
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,880
But there's all these kind of 
interesting little details in 

465
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,920
this book, you see? 
But Spike seems to see John as a

466
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,400
kindred spirit, and he just 
seems to really care about him. 

467
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,000
And he says things became more 
difficult later. 

468
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,680
But he says, you know, at the 
beginning, beginning of his 

469
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,040
career, when he was young, 
everything felt easy, you know, 

470
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,400
back then. 
Yeah. 

471
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,960
And there's a very early, we get
a very early glimpse, early 

472
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,000
glimpse of John Entropus 
actually in one of the few 

473
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,360
remaining fragments of show 
called Fred. 

474
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,720
Yeah. 
Or is it? 

475
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,440
Son of Fred, I'm not sure which.
I think is a show called Fred 

476
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,800
which John Entropus has seen on 
screen and now. 

477
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,520
Dear viewers, for a tale of 
adventure so old it cannot fail 

478
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:42,480
to bore you all. 
Ladies and gentlemen, The Count 

479
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,600
of Monte Carlo, Part 1, by John 
Entropus, BB. 

480
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,840
Yeah. 
So he mentions that Milligan 

481
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,960
isn't involved in the writing of
the first series, is that right?

482
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,960
So which one is the first one? 
Is that is the first? 

483
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:01,680
Weekly. 
Is it weekly? 

484
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,240
Yeah. 
And then you've got spikes. 

485
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,400
Spike says, you know, you can't 
do this kind of humor on 

486
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,160
television, and then he realises
it's quite popular. 

487
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,760
Suddenly Spike is involved. 
But yes, it's a big sort of 

488
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,120
associated London Scripts 
effort, isn't it? 

489
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,200
With all writers and all these 
people. 

490
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:23,320
Yes, yeah, yeah, there's also 
the April the 8th show, which is

491
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,000
fascinating because I we've 
discussed, I've discussed this 

492
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,560
on Goon pod relatively recently.
Yeah, can't remember which 

493
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,880
episode but if people want to go
back but it's the one where 

494
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,360
Sellers gets pissed off with 
and. 

495
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,920
Goes and tears up the the 
scrolling credit at the. 

496
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:45,120
End and goes on about Tom Sloan,
him and his bleeding liniment. 

497
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,520
Yeah, another interesting 
detail, it says that in Spikes 

498
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,240
car he always has cash lying 
around on the floor of the car, 

499
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280
coins over the floor of his 
Mini. 

500
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,640
All these glimpses of Spikes 
day-to-day life. 

501
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,040
That's just what I found 
fascinating about this because, 

502
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,240
you know, this is your way in. 
You can live with Spike through 

503
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:07,560
this book. 
You know, it's just what I 

504
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,800
wanted just to, to go into this 
world. 

505
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,120
And also the experience of being
in a car with Spike, you know, 

506
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,840
never mind going up to London 
Zoo with the goldfish, the 

507
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,920
experience of being driven 
around in a car with Spike. 

508
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,240
And of course, well. 
Just just ask George Martin. 

509
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,200
Who had to drive all the way up 
from Yeah, that would have been 

510
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,760
an experience from what's London
up to Yorkshire, Leeds. 

511
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,160
Or was it Leeds for his? 
Well, the. 

512
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,720
Leeds is Yorkshire it is. 
Indeed. 

513
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,920
Yorkshire, yes, Yeah. 
Because of course, once he's out

514
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,200
amongst traffic, other drivers 
are likely to upset him. 

515
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,200
Yeah. 
So Spike gets upset by these 

516
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,640
other drivers around him and he 
speeds up after a car, somebody 

517
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,160
who's kind of offended him. 
And John nervously asks Spike to

518
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,200
can you go a bit slower? 
So then he starts going very, 

519
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,080
very, very slowly in the middle 
of the traffic. 

520
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,560
Can you imagine this? 
Anyway? 

521
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,840
But yeah, he jumps around, you 
see in the book. 

522
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,520
So it's just not not a sort of 
straight kind of, you know, this

523
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,200
happened, then this happened. 
It's it's it's sort of like his 

524
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,320
memories coming back to him when
he sort of realizes, oh, it's 

525
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,640
Sheila in the car. 
This is kind of much later from 

526
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,560
his early kind of memories of 
going into associated London 

527
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,560
script, London scripts. 
But yeah, again, I think that's 

528
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,920
kind of a great way of writing 
the book. 

529
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,760
It's all in these kind of little
cobbits, all these little 

530
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,360
scenes, these little these 
moments. 

531
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,680
How much? 
Accuracy. 

532
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,000
Do you ascribe to books like 
this in terms of. 

533
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,720
Well, this is the interesting 
thing, the vagary. 

534
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,000
'S a memory and yeah, well. 
That's the thing. 

535
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,720
Because then you get onto like 
where he goes for lunch with the

536
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,520
goons. 
And this is just very 

537
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,560
interesting because it's so kind
of well remembered if this is 

538
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,800
actually what happened. 
He does sort of scenes in the 

539
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,600
book, like the day that he's 
recording the the Spun Plague, 

540
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,000
which is so that's the first of 
the gun shows he does with 

541
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,680
Spike. 
Is it? 

542
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Yes. 
So I think it's during a period 

543
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,720
when they've sort of got this 
arrangement that Mary Stevens 

544
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,760
and Maurice Wiltshire are 
writing it one week and then the

545
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,800
following week it's Spike and 
then it's Mary Stevens and 

546
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,240
Morris Wiltshire again and then 
back to Spike. 

547
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,640
And then a couple of those. 
He gets John Entropus in to help

548
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,240
him, but he's at the the spawn 
play recording. 

549
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,800
And John in the book does this 
thing. 

550
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,240
How do you remember this? 
So he has a little scene where 

551
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,440
he's gone to a hypnotist to 
bring back all the details of 

552
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,240
this event. 
So he tells, you know, the story

553
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,120
of how the the hypnotist sort of
puts him under and, you know, 

554
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,800
brings back all the memories of 
that evening. 

555
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,320
So really. 
Yeah. 

556
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,480
So. 
So again, he's an imaginative, 

557
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,520
interesting writer. 
So let me see. 

558
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:55,960
Let's just find a little bit of 
this. 

559
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,080
So the hypnotist, as you 
approach the theatre, imagine 

560
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,040
you are. 
Is it raining me? 

561
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,720
No. 
But the sky is leaking. 

562
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,840
Hypnotist. 
Good. 

563
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,200
You're in the theatre. 
You're saying hello to 

564
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,480
everybody. 
You say hello to Peter Sellers. 

565
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,200
What does he reply? 
Me. 

566
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,280
Hello, Johnny. 
Hypnotist. 

567
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,280
Good. 
You say hello to Harry Secombe. 

568
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,240
What does he reply? 
Me Hello, Neddy. 

569
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,960
Stand well back to avoid falling
into conversation. 

570
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,920
Thank you, Hypnotist. 
Good. 

571
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,120
You say hello to Spike Milligan.
What does he reply? 

572
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,480
Me. 
We'll never get these sound 

573
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,160
effects right. 
And you know, it's interesting 

574
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,640
that you know, whether this is 
completely exactly what 

575
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,480
happened, but it is giving you a
flavour of it and is, you know, 

576
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,480
it is evoking this. 
Oh yeah. 

577
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,160
Then we've got this bit about 
Peter Sellers suit. 

578
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,800
What is Peter Sellers wearing? 
The suit, The goon saved up for 

579
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,640
one and it was Peter's turn to 
wear it. 

580
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,440
He had it for the 1st 12 years. 
How was Harry Secom dressed? 

581
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,720
With difficulty, says John. 
It was before they had Oxfam 

582
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,520
shops. 
He used to go up to people in 

583
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,160
the street and say how much do 
you want for that pullover? 

584
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,760
He didn't know you could buy 
clothes in shops. 

585
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,480
He thought they were issued by 
the quartermaster Sergeant and 

586
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,200
he didn't know where he lived. 
So Harry Secom he's talking 

587
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,720
about, Yes. 
So this is in 1958. 

588
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,680
Harry Secom didn't know where to
buy clothes, so he had a wife, 

589
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,440
Harry. 
Secom, his wife and children at 

590
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,360
this point, Family, yeah. 
But it's it's a point. 

591
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,120
I've heard him repeat that in 
interviews. 

592
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,880
Yeah. 
But you know, you do get these 

593
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,760
insights into these recordings. 
And where's the? 

594
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,120
There's a. 
There's a thing, I don't know if

595
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,040
you've got this, and I'm sorry 
if I'm pre empting something 

596
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:38,760
you're going to say In the 
Humphrey Carpenter, Oh yeah, 

597
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:45,800
Milligan biography, he talks 
about Anthropus recalling the 

598
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,200
tension between Milligan and 
Sellers during the rehearsal for

599
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,520
the spawn plague. 
That's right. 

600
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:50,840
He does. 
He says this. 

601
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,840
He says this. 
And he says this must be this 

602
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,440
part of the hypnotist stuff he's
recalling. 

603
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,680
He says it's quoted, Anthropus 
is quoted in the in the 

604
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,240
Carpenter book saying we have a 
read through. 

605
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,160
It goes well, everyone laughs a 
lot, then Peter says is it funny

606
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,920
and Spike says I bloody well 
hope so and nobody talks to each

607
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,920
other for half an hour. 
Then we ever run through back on

608
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,240
stage and the band is laughing 
so everyone gets their 

609
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,040
confidence back. 
The. 

610
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,400
Scene Doctor Seagoon's National 
Health waiting room. 

611
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,520
Good morning, patience. 
Sorry to be so late, but I had 

612
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,080
to stop for a three month 
holiday in Paris. 

613
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,840
Shall I send the first patient 
Indel? 

614
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,080
Yes, darling. 
Remember the rich ones first? 

615
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,400
National Health's last virtual. 
You first drop them. 

616
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,560
Turn. 
Hey, what's the trouble with 

617
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,280
you? 
I got the shoe. 

618
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,160
Shoe. 
I got a touch of the birds, 

619
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,000
mate. 
Get away, you shoe birdie. 

620
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,280
I said you grey in no time. 
We're lazy. 

621
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,680
Getting the bird is a common 
complaint. 

622
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,720
Yes, I saw you last week. 
A Coventry mate. 

623
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,080
You do all right for fruit, 
don't you? 

624
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,320
It's all right. 
It's all lies, folks. 

625
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,080
Lies have a great success. 
I'll tell you why I was paid off

626
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,880
last week. 
Well, how can I cure these 

627
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,240
naughty birdies? 
My. 

628
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,160
Well, we'll soon have you. 
Well, matey, just wear these 

629
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,840
bird cages hanging on your legs 
and take this bird line three 

630
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,120
times a second. 
Oh, lovely. 

631
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,520
They. 
All seem like father figures to 

632
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,160
John. 
There's this odd bit with Peter 

633
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,040
Sellers and this. 
What's he an estate agent 

634
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,400
called? 
Alf Slin or Alf Sline? 

635
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,720
Alf Slin spelt SLY. 
Double northeast, Peter said. 

636
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,800
This is John Antronus. 
Alf Slin's eyes widened. 

637
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,200
I nearly married your mother, he
said. 

638
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,160
I stared at the balding, 
bespectacled gentleman in front 

639
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,720
of me. 
Yes, my mother had told me I 

640
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,360
could have married Alf Slim, but
I decided to wait for your dad 

641
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,760
to get back from India. 
I could have been your father, 

642
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,880
said Alf, standing on the 
pavement, staring at me in 

643
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,360
wonder. 
I didn't quite see how I would 

644
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,639
have been someone else. 
It was a close shave, said Alf. 

645
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,280
He was questioning my very 
existence. 

646
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,280
Peter enjoyed every moment of 
this encounter. 

647
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:21,560
When we drove off his car, he 
repeated in perfect mimicry, I 

648
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,840
could have been your father. 
Then giggled all the way home. 

649
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:27,280
He kept repeating it to Anne, 
his wife. 

650
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,639
I could have been your father 
till she got bored. 

651
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,480
The funny thing is when Peter 
said it, he looked like Alf 

652
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,120
Slyn. 
To think he could have been my 

653
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,840
father, that's sort of 
extraordinary. 

654
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,560
Now why? 
Have we not heard Sellers in 

655
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,320
some interview subsequently or 
even in a goon show later on 

656
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,280
doing? 
I could have been your father. 

657
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,639
Yeah, yeah. 
But yeah, that's the sort of 

658
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,440
theme running right through this
book. 

659
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,000
You know, John is like, you 
know, this is another reason why

660
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,080
why, you know, Spike gets on so 
well with John. 

661
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,760
It is a bit like he's, you know,
he's comedy son, you know? 

662
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,800
He. 
Says to him at one point, you 

663
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,720
know, you're, you're the only 
other genius here, you know, at 

664
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:16,920
Associated London Scripts with 
Ray Ray and Allen and Johnny 

665
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,480
Spade and Eric Sykes and 
everyone. 

666
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,400
Spike accuses Peter Sellers of 
having borrowed one of his books

667
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:28,600
and not giving it back. 
At rehearsal one goon show 

668
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,240
Sunday, Spike was distracted 
fluffing his lines. 

669
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,120
Peter Sellers looked concerned. 
Peter, what's upsetting you 

670
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,240
Spike? 
Spike I've lost the battle for 

671
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,440
Spion cop. 
That's what's upsetting me. 

672
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,920
Peter laughing. 
That was lost years ago. 

673
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,720
Spike my book you fool. 
You wouldn't borrowed it because

674
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:50,040
you're semi illiterate like the 
company. 

675
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,200
You keep your famous friends, 
Peter. 

676
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,840
Princess Margaret reads a lot, 
Spike. 

677
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,840
She doesn't need to read. 
It's like doing her own laundry 

678
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,480
and cleaning her own shoes. 
She'd get a servant to read her 

679
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,640
books. 
Peter no longer laughing. 

680
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,880
Oh yes, well you're jealous of 
my friends because you can't 

681
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,200
keep any. 
I hope you never find that book.

682
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,840
The battle, Battle for Spion 
Cop. 

683
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,400
And I hope you lose a lot more 
books, Spike. 

684
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,200
I hope you lose a library full 
of books and wait for this. 

685
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,480
This is the kicker. 
Spike's curse on Peter Sellers, 

686
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,360
Spike. 
And I hope you lose your wife, 

687
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,440
your money, your health, and 
your mind. 

688
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:32,080
Oh, Peter comes back. 
Then I'd be like you, wouldn't 

689
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,640
I, Spike? 
Except then you'll always be 

690
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,480
worse off than me because you've
also lost the battle for Spion 

691
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,800
Cop. 
This is a bit like, what's it? 

692
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,880
David Baddiel and Rob Newman in 
the history? 

693
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,600
Yeah, it is, isn't it? 
They didn't speak to each other 

694
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,160
for weeks, but the good show 
recordings did not suffer. 

695
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,120
They were too professional for 
that. 

696
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,280
Eventually, Peter gave Spike a 
present, a copy of The Battle to

697
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,840
Spion Cop. 
Thank you, said Spike. 

698
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,160
Now I've got 2 copies of that 
one. 

699
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,360
All I need is a history of 
Western philosophy and I'll be 

700
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,040
very happy. 
So Peter bought in that as well,

701
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,600
Spike said. 
I'd still like to know the 

702
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,160
bastard who can't be bothered to
return my books. 

703
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,280
The original copy of The Battle 
to Spionkop had been returned to

704
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:23,480
Milligan anonymously. 
Anonymously. 

705
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,280
The plain package that that had 
arrived through the post wore 

706
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,760
AW1 postmark. 
So the Milligan had searched 

707
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,000
through his address book to see 
who lived there. 

708
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,360
So it's incredible, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

709
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,960
So this big rift of this 
borrowing of this book. 

710
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,040
So yeah. 
So. 

711
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,480
Jeez. 
I'd love to think that was true.

712
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,240
Yeah, the basis of that is true,
even if not every kind of word 

713
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,560
of the dialogue is true. 
But still probably, Yeah, it was

714
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,120
probably a huge bust up, wasn't 
it? 

715
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,960
Yeah. 
I mean, the the the other one is

716
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,920
the the bedsitting room. 
I mean, hopefully one day if you

717
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,400
ever have me back on with never 
Speak properly, we can maybe 

718
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,320
talk about the the play of the 
bedsitting room. 

719
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,800
But John talks about, you know, 
actually getting the bed sitting

720
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,400
room on, which is kind of very 
interesting because of course, 

721
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,000
John's great ambition in all of 
this. 

722
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,400
He's having huge success as a 
writer on, you know, all the 

723
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,680
things he's doing, Frankie 
Howard and the Army game. 

724
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,760
And he does the film with 
Anthony Newley. 

725
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,840
He works on Sellers 1. 
He does with Ray and Allen. 

726
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,520
Wrong arm of the law. 
Wrong arm. 

727
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,080
Of the law great film so he's 
doing all that stuff so that's 

728
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,720
all great. 
So I think he's making a lot of 

729
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:44,800
money from that but he's got 
this hankering to be a 

730
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,280
playwright and have a play on at
the Royal Court and you know he 

731
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,480
talks in the book. 
You know the main thing he's 

732
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,160
known for I guess is the bed 
sitting room he'd made it with 

733
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,440
with his friend Spike. 
He's sort of wondering, you 

734
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,320
know, whether it's a bit of a 
both the blessing and the curse,

735
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,440
really, because, you know, this 
this is an idea that John had 

736
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,600
for this play and. 
But Spike sort of takes it over,

737
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,040
doesn't he? 
The play comes out and is 

738
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,560
credited to Spike and John 
Entrebus. 

739
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,640
And of course, you know, you 
think, well, they could have 

740
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,080
done more after that, couldn't 
they? 

741
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,840
And yeah, yeah. 
So he has this idea, which I 

742
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,920
think is a really interesting 
idea about, you know, the, the, 

743
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,600
the guy who thinks he's turning 
into a bedsitting room and he 

744
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:34,880
does turn into a bedsitting 
room. 

745
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,440
His psychiatrist has moved into 
the bedsitting room. 

746
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,960
But then he can't cure him 
because then, you know, if he 

747
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,160
cures him and turns him back 
from being a bedsitting room, 

748
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,120
then he'll be homeless, which is
sort of, you know, yeah, that's 

749
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,320
a neat idea, a crazy idea, but 
it sort of gets a bit swallowed 

750
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,320
up, I think, in all the kind of 
spikeness that gets added to it.

751
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,520
But that's the idea at the heart
of it. 

752
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,120
And Spike apparently went round 
sort of dinner parties and so 

753
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,240
on, kind of talking through this
idea. 

754
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,800
And the Royal Court had been 
interested in in doing 

755
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,160
something. 
And also there was the Mermaid 

756
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,840
Theatre which was run by Bernard
Miles, who you know this 

757
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,680
character who crops up in. 
One or two goon shows or is he 

758
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,160
just in the one? 
One goon show 1 goon. 

759
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:20,520
Show so he's a friend of theirs 
anyway. 

760
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,160
But he works for Spike a lot, 
yeah. 

761
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,560
Obviously so Mile Bernard Marsa 
wanted to play from Spike. 

762
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,000
Spike said he was too busy but 
then he says 01 of our lads, 

763
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,080
John Entrebus has got, you know,
this thing. 

764
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:38,160
Then there's another lot get in 
touch with Spike and that is a 

765
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,840
group called Tomorrow's 
Audience. 

766
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,760
So do you know about them? 
So this is, yeah, a bunch of 

767
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,040
bunch of students wanting to 
make it in sort of comedy 

768
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,040
theatre. 
And it was Richard Ingrams and 

769
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,800
Willie Rushton and all these 
people. 

770
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,000
So before, you know, they're so 
heavily involved in Private Eye.

771
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,320
So tomorrow's audience, this is 
the name of their theatre group.

772
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,400
They get in touch and they ask 
Spike if he if he has got a one 

773
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,360
act play that they could 
perform. 

774
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,920
So Spike says to John Andreas, 
OK, let's write up this idea 

775
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,360
that you've got for these lads. 
So they write up the Bed Sitting

776
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,400
room. 
So it's performed as a one act 

777
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,920
play at the Marlow Theatre, 
Canterbury in February 1962. 

778
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,960
This is the thing I was telling 
you the other day. 

779
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,120
This was a staggering thing. 
The original Lord Faulkner in 

780
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,600
the company that played as the 
tomorrow's audience people in 

781
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,840
the Marlow Theatre in 
Canterbury, it was Gordon 

782
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,160
Honeycomb. 
He played Lord Fornham and 

783
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,120
Gordon Honeycomb. 
For those who don't know, he was

784
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:46,840
a very famous ITV News reader 
for years on on, Yeah, on the 

785
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080
telly in this country. 
But yeah, so he's he's Lord 

786
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,040
Fornham. 
And it's very confusing as well 

787
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,880
because in the play script, the 
characters referred to as 

788
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,720
Pontius Keck or something, isn't
it? 

789
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,440
Which is the is the psychiatrist
character. 

790
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,240
Why? 
And then he becomes Martin 

791
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:09,880
Buells or Buells Martin. 
So anyway, that's. 

792
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Pules Pules Martin in the film. 
Oh, is. 

793
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:13,640
It. 
Yeah, yeah. 

794
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:18,680
I think Barry Humphries referred
to him as Martin Buells, and 

795
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,160
he's Captain Martin Buells, 
which makes it more confusing 

796
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,680
because he's meant to be the 
psychiatrist anyway. 

797
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,400
So that's Willie Rushden in this
original production, and the 

798
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,800
director was John Duncan, not 
John Junkan. 

799
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:33,800
John Duncan. 
John Duncan. 

800
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,440
Who become the assistant 
producer of That was the week 

801
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,160
there was so. 
So we yeah, all these bunch of 

802
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,400
people have come out of Oxford. 
I guess Willie Rushdon was 

803
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,960
always very impressive to me 
because like Tim Key with the 

804
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,360
Cambridge Footlights, Tim Key 
was in the Cambridge Footlights 

805
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,920
but was not actually at 
Cambridge at the time. 

806
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,400
Willie Rushton was in the Oxford
Review in the early 60s, but he 

807
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,520
never went to any university so 
he was just friends with and so 

808
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:05,920
on. 
So he just sort of, they would 

809
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,960
get him up. 
Of course he became like quite a

810
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,000
big star. 
But yeah, he was in the Oxford 

811
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,640
Review despite not being at the 
university. 

812
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:21,560
So this bunch, they put this one
act play on at Canterbury and 

813
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:26,120
Kenneth Tyne at the Great 
Theatre Critic, He's going to go

814
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,840
and see it, but Spike begs him 
not to go. 

815
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,680
He says it's a work in progress,
but he goes along. 

816
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,320
And at this time, Private Eye 
had just started, but he was 

817
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,560
edited originally not by Richard
Ingrams. 

818
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,400
It was edited by someone else. 
I think it was Christopher 

819
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,240
Booker originally, wasn't it? 
Anyway, so at this point, you 

820
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,000
know, Ingrams is just trying to 
make it as a as an actor anyway.

821
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,240
So Spike has begged Kenneth 
Tyler not to go and review this 

822
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:58,240
play, but he goes anyway and he 
gives it a rave review. 

823
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,440
So suddenly this play, this one 
act play is news now. 

824
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,280
Richard Ingrams and all this 
lot, they are, you know, they're

825
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,120
sort of ping their hopes on this
thing that this is going to make

826
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,080
their name. 
They've put it on. 

827
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,760
It's a big success, you know. 
So now, you know, they want to 

828
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,120
sort of carry on with it and 
take it forward. 

829
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,280
But you see, you have this bit 
of controversy now because now 

830
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,880
that this has got into the news 
with Kenneth Tynan reviewing it,

831
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,200
Bernard Miles back at the 
Mermaid Theatre hears about this

832
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,080
production in Canterbury and 
says, oy, that's the play I 

833
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,920
commissioned. 
I want that play. 

834
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:36,360
So John Entropus's story, even 
in the introduction to the bed 

835
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,760
sitting room, is that he wrote 
the play with Spike at the 

836
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,000
Mermaid Theatre, with Spike as 
Ben Gunn. 

837
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,560
Because yeah, this was the thing
that Bernard Miles kept cutting 

838
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,160
off at the Mermaid was Treasure 
Island. 

839
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,240
And he'd already done it sort of
back in the 1950s, Bernard Miles

840
00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:57,840
would play Long John Silver. 
So Bernard Miles had this kind 

841
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,280
of West Country accent, didn't 
he? 

842
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:04,200
So yeah, so he plays Long John 
Silver, but they revive it as a 

843
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,800
sort of Christmas show. 
So Jamie Muir the other week was

844
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,520
just saying on Blue Sky that he 
remembered going to see Treasure

845
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,720
Island with Spike at the Mermaid
Theatre. 

846
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,800
So I presume it must have been 
the 1961 because Jamie Frank 

847
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:26,960
Muir's son there, presumably it 
was Frank and his sister Sally 

848
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,440
and Jamie's memory was that 
Spike had given Jamie's sister 

849
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,560
Sally a cigar and she must have 
been about nine years old or 

850
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,240
something at the time. 
Spike the great anti smoking 

851
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,080
figure gives this child a cigar 
and says you can smoke this on 

852
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,480
your 16th birthday. 
So she actually saved it until 

853
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,400
her 16th birthday and she smoked
it on her 16th birthday and then

854
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:56,240
sent in the ashes or something. 
Anyway, so but you see, pay 

855
00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:00,200
attention in this story. 
Is it 1961 coming up to 

856
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,920
Christmas? 
That is when Spike is in 

857
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,200
Treasure Island at the Mermaid 
Theatre. 

858
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,360
Now, John Entropus's version of 
this story is always that it's 

859
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,560
like the Richard Ingram's 
version of this one act thing. 

860
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:19,080
The bed sitting room has been 
and gone and then they kind of 

861
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,800
write it up into a two act play.
That's when he's writing with 

862
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,800
Spike is, you know, Spike is 
playing Ben Gunn in Treasure 

863
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,480
Island. 
So he remembers, you know, was 

864
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,440
he writing it with Spike or was 
he, you know, Spike was staying 

865
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,600
in character as Ben Gunn and he 
had his dressing room all done 

866
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,560
up as grotto for all the 
children who came in and was 

867
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:39,960
giving cigars out to all of 
them. 

868
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,400
I think anyway, this doesn't 
quite fit with what John's 

869
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:46,200
saying. 
So the version that they wrote 

870
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,560
at the Mermaid Theatre in in 
Spike's dressing room must be 

871
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:55,120
the one act version because it's
the end of 1961 and the Richard 

872
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,800
Ingram's Willie Rushton bed 
sitting room is on the following

873
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,040
February in 1962. 
Do you see what I'm saying? 

874
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,680
So it's the one act trying to. 
So it's the original one act 

875
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,120
version of the bed sitting room.
Spike and John Antropus have 

876
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,840
written it in Spike's dressing 
room at the Mermaid Theatre, 

877
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,680
which might, you know, Bernard 
Miles might argue that gives me 

878
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,680
more ownership because it's 
written on my property. 

879
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,800
So I want that play. 
Anyway, That is essentially what

880
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,520
happens tomorrow's audience with
Willie Rushdon, Gordon Honeycomb

881
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:32,640
and Richard Ingram's. 
They get dropped and Spike and 

882
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,640
John carry on working on the 
play and it's expanded into a 

883
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,880
two act thing and it gets put on
at the Mermaid Theatre. 

884
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:46,320
Yes, the interesting. 
Thing is, the original cast is 

885
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:52,720
Graham Stark as Fuels Martin or 
punctures CAC whatever he is, 

886
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:59,720
and Valentine Dial is Lord 
Fortnum so yeah. 

887
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:04,000
And Spike is in there as as 
Mate, the roving traffic warden.

888
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,960
Yeah, so entropist, not fancy 
writing apart for himself. 

889
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:11,480
Yeah, I. 
Wonder about that. 

890
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,680
I wonder about that. 
But anyway, he didn't. 

891
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,360
Opening opening night at the 
Mermaid. 

892
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,520
In the audience are Peter 
Sellers and Harry Secombe. 

893
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,280
So they attend the premiere. 
Yeah. 

894
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,840
So you think you know that's. 
That's where Peter Sellers meets

895
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,880
Janet Scott. 
We see it Ryan's that night has 

896
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,840
a. 
Brief, brief fling with her. 

897
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,800
Brief fling. 
With Thora Heard's daughter. 

898
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,480
Lovely. 
Yeah. 

899
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,440
So you do start to think, well, 
you know, could you have this 

900
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,440
play with, you know, not 
Valentine, darling, Graham 

901
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,400
Stark. 
Are they actually standing in 

902
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,080
for, you know, Harry and Peter 
and and the other thing that's 

903
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:50,880
sort of interesting? 
Yeah. 

904
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,480
But hang on, hang on, hang on. 
Harry would have to play. 

905
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:58,240
Well, whichever way round it is,
Martin. 

906
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,520
Yeah, I guess. 
Yeah, I. 

907
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,560
Guess sellers. 
Sellers would be more likely. 

908
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,000
To be Lord Fordham maybe. 
But anyway, whichever way round 

909
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,520
it is, or even if it's not 
Harry, but it's, you know, it is

910
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,000
maybe half is. 
He's thinking of Peter Sellers. 

911
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,600
And so you've got a kind of 
Peter Sellers standing. 

912
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:23,480
Not putting Graham Stark down 
here, but, but yeah, no, there's

913
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,960
another big bust up here, which 
is absolutely incredible between

914
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:31,120
Spike and Graham Stark. 
And Graham, John says in the 

915
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,720
book, had been very supportive 
of Spike's acting because Spike 

916
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,760
was feeling unsure, you know, of
his abilities to do this on 

917
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,800
stage. 
But then you get this, this 

918
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,920
thing. 
George C Scott and Stanley 

919
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,440
Kubrick visit the theatre and 
they go to see Graham, not 

920
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,400
Spike, because of course, what's
the film that they are making at

921
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,000
exactly this time? 
It's Doctor Strangelove Dr. 

922
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,720
Strangelove, of course, that is.
Filming exactly when the 

923
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,920
Bedsitting Room is first shown 
is first on the Mermaid Theatre 

924
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:08,520
in in London. 
So interesting. 

925
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,840
You know, they're both kind of 
become, well, they're both sort 

926
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,880
of atomic bomb stories, aren't 
they? 

927
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,200
Of course. 
Yes, they are. 

928
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,440
Yes. 
They are something which is on 

929
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,280
our minds once again at present 
time, strangely enough. 

930
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:23,960
Anyway. 
So yes, Strangelove begins 

931
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,960
filming 3 days before the bed. 
Sitting room starts with a 

932
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,520
mermaid and Spike falls out with
Graham Stark. 

933
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,280
And of course we don't know 
exactly why, but he says to 

934
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,680
Graham Stark's wife, tell your 
husband if he comes to the 

935
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,920
theatre tonight, I will shoot 
him. 

936
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:43,120
That's right. 
I remember that, yeah. 

937
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,160
And Audrey Stark was 8 months 
pregnant apparently. 

938
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,000
So anyway, the Starks do not 
believe this. 

939
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:55,040
But then Spike's wife Paddy 
turns up in tears saying Spike 

940
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:58,840
has indeed got a gun and meant 
what he said. 

941
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,760
So the Mermaid Theatre then 
Spike? 

942
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,760
The Great Pacifist. 
Absolutely incredible, isn't it?

943
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:11,400
So Graham Stark is then barred 
from the Mermaid Theatre where 

944
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,040
he is starring. 
He's barred for his own safety. 

945
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,520
And the understudy has to go on 
until the play transfers to 

946
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,040
whatever it was, the Duke of 
York's theatre. 

947
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,840
And then I think Barry Humphries
takes over in the main in that 

948
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,400
role. 
And so John was kind of very 

949
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,680
appreciative of Graham Stark in 
the book because he says, John 

950
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,680
says he doesn't know the half of
the story himself. 

951
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:39,000
He doesn't know quite why they 
had this falling out, but for 

952
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,800
the good of the production, 
Graham didn't leak the story or 

953
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,640
take any action. 
You know which other? 

954
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,640
OK, well. 
Sellers gets married to Brit 

955
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:51,200
Ecland in 64 Yeah. 
So this is a year before that, 

956
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,360
yeah. 
And Graham and David Lodge were 

957
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:55,960
joint best men. 
Yep. 

958
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,640
Was was Spike at the wedding? 
Surely he was. 

959
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,680
I don't. 
Know, but I couldn't tell you. 

960
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,160
But I'm just trying to think 
when would Spike have 

961
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,760
subsequently worked? 
Was Graham Stark He'd have, I 

962
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,240
mean, he must have rubbed 
shoulders of Graham Stark. 

963
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,480
Oh, I'll tell you what, the 
magnificent 7 deadly sins, 

964
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,440
Graham Stark directed that 
Spikes in that. 

965
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,840
So there must have been some 
sort of reconciliation. 

966
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,440
To God, it is sort of 
tantalising. 

967
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,080
You know, how much is it true? 
And you know what was it all 

968
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:26,840
about? 
What caused these these 

969
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,000
problems? 
But. 

970
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:31,720
Another thing though that, and I
don't want to dwell on this, of 

971
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:36,080
course, but Amthropus himself 
was, was very openly talked, has

972
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,560
very openly talked about his, 
his, his struggle with the 

973
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,000
bottle indeed in the 60s indeed.
Yeah, he's got a very good 

974
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,280
memory for somebody drinking 
heavily because you. 

975
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:53,120
Remember that story that Dick 
Van Dyke tells that he he, he 

976
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,280
made, I don't know, four or five
films towards the end of the 

977
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:57,920
60s? 
He doesn't remember any of them.

978
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,160
Yeah. 
At the same time, I think, yeah,

979
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,000
there are issues like that 
because at one point in the 

980
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:10,040
book, John phones up Peter 
Sellers in 1981 and has a chat 

981
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,480
with him. 
Peter Sellers phones him up in 

982
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,360
1981, which is unlikely to have 
happened for the the reasons of 

983
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,560
death. 
Yeah, but Benteen? 

984
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,280
Benteen spoke to Sellers about 
12 years later. 

985
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:27,520
Maybe that's what he was. 
He was Michael Benteen, but 

986
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,640
yeah, the there's this other 
event isn't there, which I told 

987
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:33,840
you about. 
I don't know if you found the 

988
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,320
clip when he goes on late night 
lineup where we have a, a, an 

989
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:39,840
extra guest with us who's just 
leaving. 

990
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,960
Would you be kind of absolutely 
please, please run leaving the 

991
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:44,800
studio. 
Why? 

992
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,160
Oh, John, come on, we'd like to 
talk about. 

993
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,720
Comedy. 
Oh, I am a. 

994
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:50,160
Comedy writer. 
One of them, John. 

995
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,280
Call it for God's sake, love, 
you know how have you even on 

996
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:56,080
the screen yet? 
I thought I found the. 

997
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,840
Right to be on. 
Well, we're on, as we'll be 

998
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,320
saying, as we'll be pointing out
later on. 

999
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,880
Comedy. 
Comedy is a serious business. 

1000
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,000
We never thought it was quite as
serious as all that. 

1001
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,560
Anyway to? 
Continue if you let me, we're 

1002
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,480
on. 
You know, it's one of these 

1003
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:17,800
terrible kind of panel things on
a kind of BBC art show from the 

1004
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:23,000
60s and they're they're well, 
it's Dennis Toohey is the 

1005
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,400
presenter. 
He's from January 1966. 

1006
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,200
So, you know, it's just 
interesting. 

1007
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,560
John Entropus has had all this 
success. 

1008
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,680
But yeah, he's hit the bottle. 
So, you know, he is quite open 

1009
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,480
about, you know, the problems 
he's had. 

1010
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:39,320
And there's this clip where 
Dennis Toohey is interviewing 

1011
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,120
this panel of these writers, 
Marty Feldman and Johnny Spater 

1012
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,560
on there, and Ian Le Frenay, and
there's some other people on 

1013
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:47,560
there as well. 
Isn't that? 

1014
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,680
Richard Waring, Richard. 
Waring. 

1015
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,000
That's right. 
Duncan Wood. 

1016
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:51,920
Yeah. 
The producer. 

1017
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,440
Yeah, Yeah. 
And, and just to, just to set 

1018
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:55,560
the scene. 
So they're not, they're not 

1019
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,560
necessarily a panel. 
They're, they're sort of sort of

1020
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,080
horseshoe formation, yeah, 
seating, yeah, arrangement. 

1021
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,640
And it's like they're trying to 
see who can smoke the most 

1022
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:07,760
cigarettes in 15. 
Minutes. 

1023
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,200
That's right. 
They're all sitting there 

1024
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:14,240
smoking away. 
John is there at the beginning 

1025
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,320
and is kind of manhandled off 
the set because he's he's there 

1026
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,800
sort of protesting that he 
should be involved in this, this

1027
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,440
as well. 
And Marty Feldman is saying, oh,

1028
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,440
cool it John, for God's sake. 
And it's, and you say, oh God, 

1029
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,320
you know what a load of so and 
so's, you know, because what's 

1030
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:34,720
the? 
What I Right. 

1031
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,160
This is me all over. 
Right. 

1032
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,240
I'm intrigued by what happened 
before then. 

1033
00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:42,200
Yeah. 
As in we we we see only a 

1034
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,480
glimpse of Ventrebus being being
taken off stage. 

1035
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,440
No it. 
It upset offset. 

1036
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,720
It upsets me, this clip because 
it upsets me in a few ways. 

1037
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:56,480
But they must have been there at
the BBC having a drink because I

1038
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,760
reckon they are all as pissed as
John Entropus is. 

1039
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,920
And, you know, it's people like 
Johnny Spate who liked a few 

1040
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,400
drinks, as far as I can make 
out, who would have been leading

1041
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:13,360
him into this kind of life as 
well, allegedly so well and. 

1042
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,160
Johnny and Johnny Spate and 
Marty Feldman almost have AI 

1043
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,640
won't say come to blows, but 
they. 

1044
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,440
It's the most ridiculous poke 
faced nonsense that they then go

1045
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:24,840
on to spout. 
And yours? 

1046
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,640
Don't laugh. 
Well, sudden, you know, not 

1047
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:28,800
concerned with them, Johnny. 
Well, I think that's funny. 

1048
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:29,960
Yeah, but. 
You know, if they don't, you 

1049
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,000
have to do this but. 
You said you said you liked 

1050
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,640
marriage, life, love, comedy 
with listen Johnny, Johnny, 

1051
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,120
Mighty Mighty Johnny come out. 
It's great. 

1052
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,120
Johnny. 
Comedy with Johnny. 

1053
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:41,640
For God's sake, love you know 
if. 

1054
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:43,880
You've ever had it. 
You'll die, John. 

1055
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,120
Comedy without an audience just 
doesn't work. 

1056
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:47,960
Love, you know? 
Comedy depends on the audience. 

1057
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,960
Love, you know nobody loved it. 
Oh, come on, love, you know it 

1058
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:52,960
doesn't. 
Matter about the studio 

1059
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,040
audience. 
It matters if you have a studio 

1060
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:56,520
audience. 
It matters about the minute. 

1061
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,480
It's a criteria. 
It's okay. 

1062
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,280
You say this, John. 
You write the damn thing. 

1063
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:01,320
You get out there and perform 
it. 

1064
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:02,760
Love. 
It matters if the audience, 

1065
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:10,760
Patrick Campbell but you know, 
if you're doing a bit a comedy, 

1066
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,320
bit love and the audience laugh.
No, wait a minute. 

1067
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,040
So listen, love. 
If you're doing comedy bit and 

1068
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,200
the audience laugh, this 
condition is the way you perform

1069
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:19,880
the next bit and. 
What has another wrong place? 

1070
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:21,680
Also OK, but. 
If you're going to have an 

1071
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,120
audience, love, you have to work
too. 

1072
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,040
We're talking about Yeah, All 
right, forget the audience. 

1073
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,520
Fine. 
All I will say, as long as you 

1074
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,320
have, as long as you have the 
audience. 

1075
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,760
You have the audience, no? 
For God's sake, no, only no, but

1076
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,040
as long as no, John. 
Just has as much right to be 

1077
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,000
there as any of them. 
So I just say, you know, they 

1078
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,560
should have just got an extra 
chair. 

1079
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:44,120
We could have joined in so. 
So do you think the theory is 

1080
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,480
that he was going to be part of 
this group, but he just couldn't

1081
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,400
handle his drink and what I. 
Assumed was that he was just 

1082
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,320
there with his friends having a 
drink and then they're going to 

1083
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:57,920
do this. 
And because he's, you know, sort

1084
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:03,440
of almost comatose by this 
point, he decides to tag along. 

1085
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,440
Goes in front of the cameras. 
Yeah, no, I I'm not sure he was 

1086
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,640
he was he was booked for it. 
But rest are just saying, just 

1087
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,280
dreadful, you know, And it's 
such an awful sort of up his own

1088
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,920
backside, sort of serious kind 
of discussion of comedy. 

1089
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,400
And you know, Charlie Spake 
would be, well, Marty Feldman's 

1090
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,720
making stroking. 
Yes, a lot of chin is. 

1091
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,520
Stroking. 
Marty Feldman's making a very 

1092
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,600
good point, but you know, comedy
has to make somebody laugh. 

1093
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,080
Charlie Spake doesn't seem to be
bothered about that at all. 

1094
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:36,120
And no. 
As would be proven, as would. 

1095
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,920
Be Proven is like everything 
I've ever seen him do. 

1096
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,160
But you know, yes, it is partly 
character. 

1097
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,720
And yeah, that's the big thing 
of what Johnny Spake's scripts 

1098
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,520
were about, wasn't it? 
And but, yeah, it's good to have

1099
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,320
some jokes in there. 
And if you've got a studio 

1100
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,120
audience in there, you want you 
want to make make left, don't 

1101
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,400
you? 
But I think his friends there, 

1102
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,440
Marty Feldman, Johnny Space and 
whoever could have shown a 

1103
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,760
little bit more compassion 
towards him rather than just, 

1104
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,280
you know, oh, call it John, get 
over it sort of thing. 

1105
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,160
And I think if Spike had been 
there, he would have shown that 

1106
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,280
sort of compassion to it. 
Absolutely. 

1107
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,560
Just. 
A brilliant young writer and, 

1108
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,240
you know, it's just very sad 
that that's how he's being seen 

1109
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,560
on television, you know, and no,
no one says a word in his 

1110
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:28,440
favour, you know, to explain who
this is and what he's done. 

1111
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,040
Because the bed sitting room was
a huge, huge success. 

1112
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:36,680
And, you know, and then like I 
said, that is difficult because 

1113
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,960
it's attributed to Spike and 
John entrepreneurs, even though 

1114
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:47,240
it starts off entirely as John's
idea, but just gets kind of 

1115
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,960
covered in layers of like Spike 
stuff. 

1116
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:55,120
And then Spike doesn't seem to 
get around to ever writing 

1117
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,720
another play with him. 
They try to write another play 

1118
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,360
called The Incurables, don't 
they? 

1119
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,600
So John had written a novel. 
So I think by about 1968, he 

1120
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,400
has, you know, he gets over the 
drink, never touches the drop 

1121
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,920
again. 
So and you know. 

1122
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:13,280
When I met him, you know, it's 
brilliant. 

1123
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,960
It's really good and just kind 
of very dedicated to the work. 

1124
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,400
That's another thing which comes
out in the book, which is just 

1125
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:26,080
how kind of, you know, Spike is 
just just works very hard, just 

1126
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,640
constantly knocking stuff out, 
which again, I, I find an 

1127
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,560
inspiring thing. 
You know, he's not sitting 

1128
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,440
around boozing with the rest of 
them like that. 

1129
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,200
Spike is just, you know, all 
about the work. 

1130
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,520
And I think I think John is sort
of in that vein as well. 

1131
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,440
And Spike is always like I say, 
you know, you've got this theme 

1132
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,800
of kind of like the rest of them
being like his father figures 

1133
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,160
and Spike being a father figure 
to him and Peter Sellers going 

1134
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,960
on about this thing. 
I could have been your father. 

1135
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,440
But Spike is always kind of 
dispensing fatherly advice to 

1136
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,760
him in the book and sort of 
saying, you know, you know, you 

1137
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,400
become very like Johnny Spade. 
You've been spending too much 

1138
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,600
time with Johnny Spade and 
you're always drinking 

1139
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,240
everything. 
And you know, you're not so nice

1140
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,240
when you being Johnny Spade. 
You know, you're much better 

1141
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,280
just being John Entrebus. 
So, you know, I think that's 

1142
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,440
something he ultimately comes to
terms with. 

1143
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,160
But then, you know, they try and
do this other play, the 

1144
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:25,920
Incurables. 
So I think this must be now he's

1145
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:27,800
kind of sobering up sort of 
thing. 

1146
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:34,120
John starts work on it with 
Spike because John was actually 

1147
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,240
talking to Sean Connery of all 
people, who is going to be in a 

1148
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,320
film of this story. 
And it's about a detective 

1149
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:46,760
investigating a murder on a ward
of incurable patients. 

1150
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,440
You know, they're all going to 
die and you think what what is 

1151
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,360
the point of investigating this 
murder? 

1152
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:53,840
Because they're all condemned 
anyway? 

1153
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,440
They're all going to die in 
this, whatever it is they've 

1154
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,040
got. 
But the detective is so kind of 

1155
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,240
determined to kind of follow 
this through. 

1156
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,160
He stays with them and 
eventually he gets contaminated 

1157
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,120
with the same disease and he 
becomes one of the incurables 

1158
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,720
himself. 
So again, you know, this is an 

1159
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:15,080
interesting idea once once Spike
comes on board to write this 

1160
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,160
with John. 
Oh, certainly. 

1161
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,520
It's set in World War 2. 
It's set in 1940, later to be 

1162
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,520
known as 1941. 
And it's about a group of 

1163
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,760
government scientists who've 
been working on the prune bomb. 

1164
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,520
So it's a secret government 
experiment that goes wrong. 

1165
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,080
And then the scientists all 
contract this deadly disease. 

1166
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,600
And they're they're isolated in 
the Nissan Hut on the Duke of 

1167
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:44,560
Hamilton's estate in Scotland. 
And then Rudolf Hess parachutes 

1168
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,880
in seeking an Armistice. 
You know, so it all goes very 

1169
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,400
kind of spike. 
You know, suddenly everything is

1170
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,160
during the Second World War. 
It's not the original idea at 

1171
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,760
all. 
Anyway, they get halfway through

1172
01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:00,120
it and then halfway through the 
first act, and then they stop 

1173
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,760
and the joy has disappeared for 
Spike. 

1174
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,800
So he just tells John, you know,
just carry on, on with it on 

1175
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,640
your own. 
But this is the real tragedy, I 

1176
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,760
think, for John. 
He carries on and finishes the 

1177
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,080
play. 
But Bernard Miles, who again, 

1178
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,360
you know, he's going to put this
on, but if it's just John 

1179
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,800
Entrebus, he doesn't want it. 
So this is kind of 

1180
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,680
heartbreaking, isn't it? 
He He says to him, if Spike 

1181
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,320
don't like it, the dog won't wag
its tail. 

1182
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:33,440
He says God, But anyway, you 
know, but John, it's kind of. 

1183
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,440
It's almost like John was 
haunted by Spike, or his, or 

1184
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,040
dogged by even though he loved 
working with Spike. 

1185
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:41,520
He does. 
Yeah, I mean that his career. 

1186
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,360
Was so linked to Spike. 
That's right. 

1187
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,240
It was almost like, it's like. 
It's a blessing and a curse. 

1188
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,960
You know, he reaches the 
heights, you know, with his 

1189
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,760
first play and in the most 
successful thing he ever did. 

1190
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,440
But he goes on, he writes lots 
of other plays. 

1191
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:58,920
He gets them on at the Royal 
Court. 

1192
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,080
So I think, you know, this was 
huge success. 

1193
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,640
He has a series of plays on and 
you know, something very, very 

1194
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,000
interesting. 
And unconscious of the fact that

1195
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,200
we we can only really scratch 
the surface of John Andrevas's 

1196
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,840
work really well, there's. 
This other moment where John 

1197
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,680
says he's up in Cambridge and 
he's directing a musical version

1198
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,880
of his play Jonah, and then 
Spike gets in touch with him and

1199
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,600
asks him to come down to London 
to write a series with him 

1200
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,200
because he's fallen out with the
writer who's going to work on 

1201
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,160
it. 
Makes you wonder, what series 

1202
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:38,080
was it? 
And John sort of, you know, 

1203
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,120
can't come away because he's 
working on this this play up in 

1204
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:42,920
Cambridge. 
So he's sort of conscious that 

1205
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,480
there are times when, you know, 
he's told Spike no as well and 

1206
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,760
not helped him. 
And then of course, he works 

1207
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:55,880
with Sellers on Fu Manchu film. 
And of course, you know, you've 

1208
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:57,760
spoken about this before, 
haven't you? 

1209
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,600
Right at the end of Sellers 
career and it's I think you sort

1210
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,560
of pointed out that it's when 
the book Book of the Goons comes

1211
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,120
out and it's got the Fu Manchu 
script in it. 

1212
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:12,000
And this may be kind of well. 
Sellers lifts a couple of gags. 

1213
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:13,720
Yeah. 
So it's clearly kind of lifted 

1214
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,000
from that. 
So and then Sellers gets John 

1215
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,040
Anchemist in to help with the 
script. 

1216
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,040
So this is a bit like Milligan 
getting Graham Stark in to be a 

1217
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,920
kind of, you know, replacement 
sellers and then falling out 

1218
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,480
with him, like you'd fall out 
with the with Sellers. 

1219
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,200
So yeah, John is brought in and 
yeah, so John is living in the 

1220
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,760
tower block, Gentry Point at 
that point, and he's 19 floors 

1221
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:38,920
up and he's got a dog, He's got 
a house trade. 

1222
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,200
So it's a long way down to kind 
of take the dog out, house 

1223
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,440
trade. 
But he gets the this is where he

1224
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:45,440
gets the call from Sellers in 
1981. 

1225
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:50,160
So it wasn't 1981. 
And it's during this time John's

1226
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:54,600
actual father dies, and John has
to go back over to back to 

1227
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,680
Cumbria to see his dad. 
He says Sellers could not have 

1228
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,080
been more solicitous. 
Sellers is very helpful to him 

1229
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:05,360
and nice So. 
And oh, God, you know, 

1230
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:12,320
Entropus's dad's final words. 
You know, he's boasting to the 

1231
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,480
nurses as he's dying. 
You know, my son John is working

1232
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,480
in Paris with Peter Sellers, 
dear. 

1233
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,000
And then Lynn Frederick arrives 
in the middle of this and John 

1234
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,160
loses his office he was working 
in because Lynn Frederick needs 

1235
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,000
an office. 
And they all go out to dinner. 

1236
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,840
Sellers disappears in the middle
of dinner. 

1237
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,360
They think he's gone to the 
toilet, but he's just gone. 

1238
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:35,800
He's done it again. 
He's just disappeared. 

1239
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,720
Lynn is very upset. 
Oh, yeah, that's it. 

1240
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,920
Sellers, then, you know, thinks 
it's all gone so well on this 

1241
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:43,840
food. 
Menchu 1 He tells John. 

1242
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,720
You know he'll be writing the 
next Pink Panther film, so you 

1243
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:51,480
know John has finally made it. 
You know this is going to be an 

1244
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,800
absolute fortune coming in. 
That Pink Panther film never 

1245
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,280
comes to be, does it? 
Well, the sellers had already 

1246
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,920
written though, before he died 
with someone else. 

1247
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,680
The romance of the Pink Panther.
Really. 

1248
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,120
Well, he was going to get, he 
told John he was going to go, 

1249
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:07,720
and he can't go by what Seller 
says. 

1250
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,520
But anyway, yeah, you don't see 
that. 

1251
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:12,520
Anyway, that's the end of that 
because Sellers dies. 

1252
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,520
But while they're in Paris 
doing, you know, all this, a 

1253
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,160
copy of Being There arrives. 
John sees that. 

1254
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,600
Just see. 
Oh, this is an absolute genius 

1255
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:24,600
film, you know, Anyway, yeah. 
And, yeah, he carries on working

1256
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,400
with Spike, doesn't he? 
And the the Milligan papers in 

1257
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:33,080
the 1980s and they, they sort of
drift apart, I guess. 

1258
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:34,760
But then, you know, Spike is 
gone. 

1259
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,320
And John carried on working with
Ray Galton in sort of later 

1260
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,000
years. 
Yeah, step stepped on son in 

1261
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,960
murder at Oil Drum Lane. 
That's right. 

1262
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,080
That's what he was working on 
when we were doing the then 

1263
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,280
Howie Stevens St. 
Or was that the associated loan 

1264
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,040
description rather at that time 
anyway, they were doing the kind

1265
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,680
of step to revival. 
So I'm not sure you know how 

1266
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,880
successful that was. 
But obviously this was years 

1267
01:07:59,880 --> 01:08:02,760
after, you know, Harry H 
Corbett, Wilfred Bramble had 

1268
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:03,800
gone. 
So they had to get kind of 

1269
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,960
replacement people in. 
But you know, you think people 

1270
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:08,360
would be interested in that, 
wouldn't you? 

1271
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,400
It should be on somewhere. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1272
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
Sorry, you were going to say 

1273
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:16,080
anyway. 
Oh, right. 

1274
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,359
Oh, that was the goon. 
Show the last. 

1275
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:36,479
The current series featuring 
Peter Sellers and he's taking 

1276
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:40,960
the Spike Bennigan. 
Max Geldray and the Orcs are 

1277
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,080
conducted by Wally Stotts, 
script by Spike Milligan and 

1278
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,680
John Andreas announcer Wally 
Skeet Slade. 

1279
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:48,880
Technical. 
Production throughout the series

1280
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:52,359
was by Bobby J and special 
effects by Ian Cook and von 

1281
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:55,520
Belcher. 
The program was produced by 

1282
01:08:55,520 --> 01:09:11,880
Charles Children. 
John is one of the last 

1283
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:16,160
remaining people who stalk the 
earth. 

1284
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:18,640
Who? 
Have a direct connection with 

1285
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,000
the goons in terms of that. 
Is what I was thinking. 

1286
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:26,040
He is, I think, the last man 
standing from Goon Show, The 

1287
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:30,240
last person who had any direct 
creative input into the show 

1288
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,680
well. 
I would, I'd kind of include, to

1289
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,920
a degree, Dick Lester in the 
sense that we're not. 

1290
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:41,680
In the radio goon show, I'm, I'm
thinking the performers, the 

1291
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,720
writers, musicians, yes. 
Producers, yeah. 

1292
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:47,439
Sound effects men. 
They all right Yes, ladies in 

1293
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,000
the. 
Canteen pouring custard into 

1294
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,279
Spike Milligan. 
Socks all gone that. 

1295
01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:53,840
Didn't happen. 
Antrebus is the only one still 

1296
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,880
with us. 
He's like, it's like he's the 

1297
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,600
the the less surviving soldier 
from the First World War. 

1298
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,360
Yeah. 
I was in contact with someone 

1299
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:07,440
who's relatively close to John 
Antrebus, who who connects with 

1300
01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:11,520
him quite regularly to this day.
He asked John whether he'd be up

1301
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,840
for coming on Goon Pod. 
This was a couple of years ago 

1302
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:19,000
when John was still a sprightly 
89 year old probably and and 

1303
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,600
John was very, very politely. 
He declined. 

1304
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,560
He said he just felt he was a 
bit too old. 

1305
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,400
It's a shame. 
For that, he would be great. 

1306
01:10:27,440 --> 01:10:33,200
Yeah, yeah. 
I just am looking his his career

1307
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,360
and his writing credits are so 
vast. 

1308
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,720
Yeah, that we we can barely 
scratch the surface. 

1309
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:43,040
There's just a couple of things 
he worked on just strike me as 

1310
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:43,760
interesting. 
Yeah. 

1311
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:51,960
OK so character he Co wrote the 
first carry on film he did and 

1312
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:53,800
the last Carry on Columbus. 
Film. 

1313
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,920
I think he's actually in. 
Carry On, Columbus. 

1314
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,600
Well, I covered Carry on 
Columbus as I was a guest on 

1315
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:03,680
someone elses podcast about 
three years. 

1316
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:05,120
Is he not? 
Actually in it, I don't think 

1317
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:06,040
I've ever actually seen. 
I don't. 

1318
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:08,440
Remember, he may have been. 
It was so long I didn't commit 

1319
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:09,640
the film to memory in this 
little. 

1320
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,520
Interview that I saw which is 
online with him somewhere about 

1321
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:15,360
the Carry On films that he says 
he was given the Charles Hawtree

1322
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,560
part and. 
Maybe he was, I don't remember. 

1323
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:19,840
It can't. 
Have been a big part. 

1324
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,920
Oh yeah. 
But yes, carry on, carry on, 

1325
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,760
Sergeant was which was the first
one He he Co wrote that with 

1326
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,520
Norman Hudis. 
Yeah, see, I've. 

1327
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,720
Learned how to pronounce Norman 
Hudis now as well. 

1328
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:32,520
I've been saying Norman Hudis 
all my life. 

1329
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,440
But I'm sure, probably, I'm 
sure, I'm sure you're right. 

1330
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:36,240
I'm just. 
Yeah. 

1331
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,520
You're talking to a man who's 
watched many a Carry On 

1332
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:40,480
television document. 
Yeah. 

1333
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:44,160
So John's career is sort of he 
starts off doing those Carry on 

1334
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,040
films and you know, all that 
kind of business. 

1335
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,280
And then there's this kind of 
bit in the middle where he 

1336
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,160
becomes like a, a playwright and
he does the bed sitting room and

1337
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,840
all this stuff at the Royal 
Court and so on through the 70s.

1338
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,680
Hitler in Liverpool as well. 
And then towards the end he goes

1339
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,520
back and he does Carry on 
Columbus. 

1340
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,280
So it's kind of, you know, 
interesting circular story and 

1341
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:03,320
then, you know. 
Absolutely. 

1342
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,800
And then, yeah, he and he, he 
wrote, he was a right of hire on

1343
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,160
things like the Army game, 
Bootchen Snudge. 

1344
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:14,960
Yeah. 
Sykes Ander, the early Sykes 60s

1345
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:19,480
series, they did a couple of 
those shows, as you say, wrong 

1346
01:12:19,480 --> 01:12:21,280
arm of the law, the Sellers 
film. 

1347
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:27,960
The big job that that great film
was Sir James and Co Co wrote 

1348
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:33,560
that with Tobert Rothwell did he
the smart master general and he 

1349
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,920
he did an episode of or Co wrote
an episode of Q5 with Spike and 

1350
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:38,880
Neil Shand. 
What are the? 

1351
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:40,440
Dustbin men. 
Yeah, he. 

1352
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:44,640
He does bits for those Milligan 
sketch shows, doesn't he? 

1353
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,920
And there's one called It's. 
Owen colour. 

1354
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,840
Owen colour, that's right. 
Yes. 

1355
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:53,400
Milligan in spring as well, 
which you Co wrote with the 

1356
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:55,400
Fosbury. 
There's the Marty Feldman Comedy

1357
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:59,560
Machine as well, with his friend
from the drunken appearance on 

1358
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,680
late night. 
Yeah, the interesting thing when

1359
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:05,440
Marty Feldman is on late night 
lineup in 1966, the thing which 

1360
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:09,240
occurred to me, of course, is he
was not known as a performer at 

1361
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,720
that point. 
He's just the writer of Round 

1362
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,280
the Horn and so on. 
But yeah, so Marty Film and 

1363
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:15,160
there's his own. 
Seriously. 

1364
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,880
He has Spike on with him and 
John Intrus is involved in that 

1365
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,480
as well. 
And what's the sketch? 

1366
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:24,120
He describes it in the book, but
it's about a man sending for a 

1367
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:28,560
book about how to save yourself 
from drowning had to play the 

1368
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,120
man who was drowning. 
So he's kind of underwater in 

1369
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,480
this, you know, whatever it is 
lake where they filmed it and he

1370
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:36,880
has to kind of Bob up to the 
surface and get this book and 

1371
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,480
then take it back down. 
It's kind of read it and and 

1372
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:41,440
learn how to save himself from 
drowning. 

1373
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,520
You know the postman comes over 
in a rowing boat and delivers it

1374
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:45,520
to him. 
Something but getting. 

1375
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,280
Away from Milligan, I'm trying 
to trying to edge this away from

1376
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:53,320
Milligan as we as we end the 
conversation, because I want to 

1377
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:57,880
try and represent John entropism
in his own right. 

1378
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,360
He did all these plays, like you
say, like Hitler and Liverpool 

1379
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:06,720
and something called the illegal
immigrant Spike would have liked

1380
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:12,000
that. 
And one Orange for the Baby at 

1381
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,840
the Gate Theatre, Notting Hills.
All these plays. 

1382
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:19,120
And then he writes an episode of
the US sitcom Too close for 

1383
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:21,360
Comfort in 1985. 
I didn't even. 

1384
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,320
Notice that? 
That's interesting, isn't it? 

1385
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:27,960
How do you get that now? 
Now that is AUS version of the 

1386
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,880
British TV sitcom Keeper in the 
Family, which was Robert 

1387
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,120
Gillespie as the cartoonist 
remember. 

1388
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,880
Oh God, too close for comfort 
for some reason. 

1389
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:44,320
I remember had an episode where 
Ernie Wise was a guest star even

1390
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:48,200
though it was AUS sitcom I I 
don't know why to this day he 

1391
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:49,400
always. 
Wanted to get to America. 

1392
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:55,280
Didn't he get to Hollywood? 
And he did an episode of the 80s

1393
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,000
series of Alfred Hitchcock 
Presents. 

1394
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,600
John, John Andrew. 
I mean, so he's. 

1395
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:05,520
He's just very varied. 
What what's the series he does 

1396
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:08,680
with Ray about the TB clinic? 
He's sort of taking it right 

1397
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:13,120
back to the start, isn't it? 
It is the is it get well, Sue? 

1398
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,440
Is that what it's called? 
And they, they. 

1399
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,640
So basically, you know, 
obviously Goldstein Simpson, 

1400
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:20,800
they start off in the TB clinic.
Clinic. 

1401
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,160
Yeah, they meet each other. 
And so Ray and John Entres, they

1402
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:28,080
write a series sort of based on 
Ray, Ray and Allen's kind of 

1403
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:30,320
early time together in this 
clinic. 

1404
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:32,720
And it's it's. 
With it's with a young Eddie 

1405
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,520
Marsan who's now quite a big 
star, absolutely. 

1406
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:40,800
And Matthew Matthew Cottle who 
was the Wimpy 1 from game on. 

1407
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:43,800
You. 
Are a very demanding, 

1408
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,760
unthinking, self centred, 
egotistical monster. 

1409
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,480
You not only eat everything 
insight, you devour the physical

1410
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:53,120
and emotional energy of 
everything you come into contact

1411
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:55,120
with. 
I've got a good head of hair 

1412
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:57,440
though and. 
I look good in a. 

1413
01:15:57,440 --> 01:16:02,600
Kilk, do not let your disdain of
my good self inhibit any future 

1414
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:03,760
visits to young Roy. 
There. 

1415
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,880
I will make myself scarce now. 
Good day to you. 

1416
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,960
We can't do much basties in 
here, but I'll stay much longer 

1417
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:17,520
next time. 
Will you? 

1418
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:20,520
Yes. 
Write to me, my darling. 

1419
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:23,600
Let me know if there's anything 
you need. 

1420
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,000
Well, I think I'm all right for 
the moment, Missus Hale. 

1421
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:30,680
Jilly just one more thing before
I go. 

1422
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,080
Roy, I want to be quite straight
about this. 

1423
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:37,560
Do you have a girlfriend? 
Well, there is Sheila. 

1424
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:44,080
Get rid of her. 
The last thing I want to 

1425
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,600
mention, just because I'd love 
to see it, and it doesn't exist 

1426
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:53,000
in any form, and it does bring 
us back to Spike and it's this 

1427
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:59,280
curious television play from 
1971. 71. 

1428
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:01,480
You know where I'm going with 
this, is it? 

1429
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:05,520
An apple a day. 
I have a copy just here, but 

1430
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,880
it's it's not the TV thing, it's
the script. 

1431
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:11,040
So an apple a day. 
Yeah. 

1432
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:13,640
Again, this is the thing which 
gets commissioned. 

1433
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:16,800
This is kind of like the story 
of John's life a bit, isn't it? 

1434
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,840
It is commissioned because Peter
Sellers is going to be in it. 

1435
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,640
And then, strangely enough, 
would you believe it, Sellers 

1436
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,840
suddenly decides he doesn't want
to do it after all. 

1437
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:29,880
So they have to recast and they 
get to Spike and Peter Cook and 

1438
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:34,280
Dudley Moore are in it. 
And yes, I don't. 

1439
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:37,120
Think Peter Sellers made a film 
in the whole of 1971 so he 

1440
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:39,240
wasn't busy, no. 
But I've he was a. 

1441
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,120
Tax exile in Ireland, I suppose,
but I think that's the story. 

1442
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:46,120
So there we are. 
Yeah, Peter Cook, Dudley Moore, 

1443
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:50,400
Spike Milligan, and also Kenneth
Griffith. 

1444
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,960
Yeah. 
And Tracy Reed, who, of course 

1445
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,800
was in Doctor Strangelove and 
Shot in the Dark. 

1446
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:01,120
And Dudley plays a young 
accountant who wants to be, 

1447
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:05,120
wants to be a doctor. 
Peter Cook plays his father. 

1448
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,280
And Peter Cook's fiance is Tracy
Reed. 

1449
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:10,320
And her dad is played by Spike 
Milligan. 

1450
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:13,120
And it sounds intriguing. 
It is. 

1451
01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:18,920
And it's in this one of the, 
I've got a couple of volumes of 

1452
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,360
John's plays out to the library 
and this is in in one with a 

1453
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,600
play called Why Bournemouth and 
other Plays. 

1454
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:31,640
And so it's just the TV script 
of an Apple a day in here. 

1455
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,480
And it says introduction to TV 
version. 

1456
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,800
This play has not yet at the 
time of publication, been 

1457
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:40,400
performed on TV. 
It has been most successfully 

1458
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,920
produced in the theatre rather 
than right in stage directions. 

1459
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,040
I believe this is best left to a
director's imagination. 

1460
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,120
It gives me scope to work. 
That's my excuse. 

1461
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:54,520
I'm sticking to it. 
So what does it mean? 

1462
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:58,560
It is ATV script. 
I thought he was going to say 

1463
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:02,320
that it hadn't been produced on 
on stage anyway. 

1464
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:04,280
Yeah, so you must have that on 
stage somewhere as well. 

1465
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,680
Anyway, there it is. 
So yeah, it's 45 minutes on TV, 

1466
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,440
isn't it? 
Yeah, I think 50 minutes. 

1467
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:12,880
Yes. 
So it's it's a shame, you know, 

1468
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,880
some, some of these plays should
be revived and we should see 

1469
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,680
them again. 
But yeah, that's one that is 

1470
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:20,440
this has got to come out of the 
woodwork. 

1471
01:19:20,440 --> 01:19:23,240
Surely at some point they're 
going to find this in, you know,

1472
01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:27,040
Nigeria or somewhere wherever 
they find these these recordings

1473
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,160
they've lost. 
Well, yeah, very interesting. 

1474
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,960
Yeah. 
An apple a day seems to continue

1475
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,800
from John Entropos's previous 
anti doctor play. 

1476
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:37,640
You'll come to love your sperm 
test. 

1477
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,640
But in fact, it debunks the 
professional classes generally. 

1478
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,880
It also has a lot to say about 
the class war. 

1479
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:46,720
So that's from the blurb on the 
back. 

1480
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:49,640
Right. 
Get to love your sperm test. 

1481
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:51,200
I know. 
That's when we did earlier kind 

1482
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:53,120
of works anyway. 
Yeah. 

1483
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:58,000
But anyway, we salute it. 
We salute John Andrebus, a fine 

1484
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,200
fellow. 
And there's that sort of nice 

1485
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,800
little bit at the end of his 
interview he did with me. 

1486
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,360
And I was just asking, did he 
look back on? 

1487
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:09,120
There's time working at 
Associated London Scripts as 

1488
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,520
being a golden here. 
And this is, you know, today is 

1489
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,040
a golden time, you know, when I 
sort of, you know, put today 

1490
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:16,840
down, you know, all these 
opportunities now. 

1491
01:20:16,840 --> 01:20:19,600
So I was just thinking it was a 
very kind of nice note, a very 

1492
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:22,520
optimistic note after 
everything, you know, that he's 

1493
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:25,360
gone through in his life. 
He's achieved great, great 

1494
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,760
things. 
But it would be nice to see a 

1495
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,280
bit of a revival of some of 
these, some of these plays and 

1496
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:32,800
some of them would be a bit 
better known. 

1497
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:34,120
And. 
Yeah. 

1498
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:37,360
He's still got a full head of 
hair. 

1499
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:39,560
He's like he has. 
Got an incredible That's the 

1500
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:40,880
main thing. 
Like Barry? 

1501
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:44,560
Gibbs like in 1977, Barry. 
Gibbs Dad, which he very 

1502
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:49,160
possibly could be. 
You know, it's a golden day. 

1503
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:53,120
Today's a golden day. 
And, and if, but if we, if we 

1504
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,520
look back and say, oh, that was 
golden, we're impoverishing 

1505
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,720
ourselves today. 
And there's absolutely no reason

1506
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:02,280
to because my God, there's 
enough to write about. 

1507
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:03,600
There's enough to get angry 
about. 

1508
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:05,200
There's enough to be passionate 
about. 

1509
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:07,880
There's enough to laugh about. 
That is going on today. 

1510
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:11,520
So really, I would say make 
today golden. 

1511
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,960
There's been a lot of chat and 
about all sorts of different 

1512
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:22,080
aspects of John Entrebus career.
And, and look, it, it would be 

1513
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,320
difficult to, to, to do a 
comprehensive history of John 

1514
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:29,560
Entrebus in, you know, in 90 
minutes or, or whatever time we 

1515
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:32,240
have allowed. 
But I, I think, I think we've 

1516
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:37,200
made a pretty decent go of that.
Mike and I want to thank you 

1517
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,320
for, for coming on and, you 
know, doing all that going above

1518
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:42,840
and beyond in terms of your 
research. 

1519
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:44,440
Yeah. 
Well, it's a little bit all over

1520
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:46,520
the place today, but yeah, thank
you. 

1521
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:49,840
Thanks for having me back on and
that always always a great 

1522
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:54,280
pleasure to do as well. 
And The Beatles in Liverpool is 

1523
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:55,200
still going strong. 
Oh. 

1524
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:57,560
Yes, absolutely. 
So yeah, I was doing one of my 

1525
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,360
Beatles in Liverpool tours 
today, so yeah, that is great 

1526
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,600
fun through Liverpool famous 
walking tours. 

1527
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,080
Yeah. 
So yes, I'm doing those pretty 

1528
01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:10,560
much every day at the moment. 
So doing plenty of those and 

1529
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:13,160
what's? 
What's the most, what's the most

1530
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:15,400
stupid question anyone's ever 
asked you on one of these 

1531
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:18,720
things? 
They don't ask stupid questions 

1532
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:22,600
on these tours. 
They had somebody turn up and 

1533
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:27,280
their understanding was that The
Beatles were a boy band from the

1534
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:29,760
1970s. 
So there's a few things to 

1535
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,400
correct there, right? 
Well, I mean, you do 

1536
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:35,840
occasionally get. 
Did you push that person in 

1537
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:37,320
front of an oncoming bus that 
wasn't? 

1538
01:22:37,440 --> 01:22:39,880
On my tour I wouldn't say 
anything against any of the 

1539
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:42,520
lovely people who come on my 
tours, but you do occasionally 

1540
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,560
get the people saying, you know,
when are we going to go and see 

1541
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,000
the the separate crossing 
outside Abbey Road Studios? 

1542
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:50,920
That's a bit of a walk from 
Liverpool. 

1543
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:55,280
So in fact they need to, they 
need to do one in Liverpool 

1544
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:57,360
actually. 
And I was just talking to this 

1545
01:22:57,360 --> 01:23:01,360
to the group today because there
was actually a photograph of The

1546
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,160
Beatles. 
I think it is, what is it, the 

1547
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,960
18th of February 1963. 
So one week earlier they 

1548
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:13,520
recorded Please Please Me, their
first LP in the UK, and then a 

1549
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,840
week later they are in Derby 
Square in Liverpool by the Queen

1550
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:22,200
Victoria Monument where Brian 
Epstein was bribed by a young 

1551
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,200
man a few years earlier. 
He picked up anyway, The Beatles

1552
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:28,520
there in 1963. 
And they do a photo shoot round 

1553
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:32,400
there for Honey Magazine, which 
is obviously a magazine for, you

1554
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,080
know, young girls at the time 
because they are just becoming 

1555
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:38,440
really famous. 
And one of the photographs shows

1556
01:23:38,440 --> 01:23:41,880
them coming across a zebra 
crossing in Derby Square. 

1557
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:45,880
The zebra crossing is long gone,
but I think they should actually

1558
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,240
repaint it because this is very 
interesting. 

1559
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:51,680
You know, because there they are
on the zebra crossing in Derby 

1560
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,600
Square, Liverpool One week after
doing the first album. 

1561
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:58,960
They are then on another zebra 
crossing a few years later, 

1562
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,040
aren't they? 
Abbey Road, right outside the 

1563
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:03,280
Abbey Road Studios. 
Famous photograph on the cover 

1564
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:06,680
of the album. 
There is only 6 1/2 years 

1565
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:10,880
between the two photographs, 
which is just absolutely 

1566
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,520
extraordinary, isn't it? 
6 1/2 years? 

1567
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,840
The whole kind of recording 
career, just in that short space

1568
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:18,960
of time. 
Anyway, there we are. 

1569
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:20,960
Yeah, if I was. 
Doing If I was doing one of 

1570
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,680
those walking tours and someone 
asked me when are we going to 

1571
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:26,280
get to the Abbey Road separate 
crossing, I'm afraid I would 

1572
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:29,160
lose my rag. 
I would get all Alan Partridge 

1573
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:33,560
and stop getting Beatles wrong. 
No, you just always tell them 

1574
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,080
the story of, you know, it was 
called Everest and they were 

1575
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:39,480
going to go and do the the front
cover picture on Mount Everest, 

1576
01:24:39,480 --> 01:24:41,720
but then they thought that's 
going to be a long time to get 

1577
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:42,920
up there. 
So where can we go? 

1578
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,440
That's a little bit nearer. 
I know we'll go to the zebra 

1579
01:24:45,440 --> 01:24:47,040
crossing right outside the 
studio. 

1580
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:51,920
They did just six photographs. 
Only one of them was usable. 

1581
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,120
That was on the 8th of August 
1969. 

1582
01:24:55,720 --> 01:25:00,480
Two weeks later, 22nd of August 
1969, was the final time all 

1583
01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:03,320
four of them were ever in one 
place together. 

1584
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:06,920
And this is the sort of nonsense
you can look forward to if you 

1585
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:10,600
come on this tour. 
Yeah, there you go. 

1586
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:14,240
Beatles in Liverpool. 
Mike Haskins and how? 

1587
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,680
How do people find you, Mike? 
If they want to. 

1588
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:19,280
Seek you out if they want to 
find me. 

1589
01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:22,040
I'm on blue sky these days, so 
that's me. 

1590
01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:25,440
If they want, if they want to 
sign up for one of these tours, 

1591
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:26,840
right, well. 
You would go 

1592
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:33,520
www.liverpoolfamouswalkingtours.com
and you'll see a horrible 

1593
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:38,160
picture of me on one of the one 
of the pages there and details 

1594
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:42,800
of all their tours. 
And yeah, they do car tours, bus

1595
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:47,280
tours, we do walking tours 
around the city centre, so great

1596
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:48,960
fun. 
Thanks again to Mike. 

1597
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:54,760
OK, so a little bit of 
housekeeping before we wrap up. 

1598
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,800
First of all, great news, sky 
dark with hats. 

1599
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:05,120
They are releasing on Blu-ray 
Two Way Stretch in about 3 weeks

1600
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:08,320
time. 
It's coming out on the 4th of 

1601
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:14,760
August and it has special 
features such as a a featurette 

1602
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,640
called Peter Sellers Criminally 
Good, I don't know what that's 

1603
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:22,760
about but it sounds fab. 
And two way Stretch sellers on 

1604
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:25,360
the inside which sounds 
intriguing. 

1605
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,400
Mini documentary perhaps about 
the film Two Way Stretch, Good 

1606
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,640
good. 
And there's audio commentary by 

1607
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:34,560
authors and comedy historians 
Gemma Ross and Robert Ross. 

1608
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:39,160
But that sounds great. 
So I've already pre-ordered 

1609
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:41,120
that. 
And also Heavens Above is coming

1610
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:43,640
out I think around the same time
also on Blu-ray. 

1611
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:47,400
Not quite as good a film, but 
but look, it's still worth well 

1612
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:50,080
worth getting. 
I believe in the UK there will 

1613
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:54,760
both be retailing or on Amazon 
for 15 of your English pounds 

1614
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:59,400
each. 
So also just wanted to mention 

1615
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:02,440
had load of really great 
feedback and comments on the 

1616
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:06,440
last, I don't know, four or five
shows that have been out. 

1617
01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:10,000
And I just wanted to mention a, 
a, a small handful. 

1618
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:17,040
We did myself and Paul Abbott 
covered the goon show lost 

1619
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:22,200
goldmine of Charlotte and Chris 
Canfield messaged and said a 

1620
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:26,520
great podcast episode about a 
great goon show episode. 

1621
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,160
Thank you very much, Chris. 
He then went on to say, very 

1622
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,680
good point for how many shows 
did Spike have a similar thing 

1623
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,040
with the title The Missing 
Scroll? 

1624
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:37,760
The Lost Music of Purdum sets up
a similar gag. 

1625
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,680
Yeah, it does, actually. 
And also also why did they need 

1626
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:45,240
to dynamite open the mind if 
Echols had been living in it? 

1627
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:49,000
Very, very good point that 
little of it makes sense, and 

1628
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,240
that's just fine. 
I absolutely love the bit with 

1629
01:27:51,240 --> 01:27:58,280
the swimming pool. 
Then we had Matty BSD. 

1630
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:04,800
Hello Matty BSD, he said about. 
We were talking about the tune 

1631
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:09,640
that Max Gaudry plays on that 
episode, which was Ragtime 

1632
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:15,240
Cowboy Joe, and Matty says that 
I'm sure I remember Jimmy 

1633
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,880
Stewart singing Ragtime Cowboy 
Joe on Parkinson. 

1634
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:21,360
It must have been one of his 
stock performances. 

1635
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,480
However, Google is telling me 
I'm wrong and he never did. 

1636
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,480
I think Google is wrong. 
Well, I think Google is probably

1637
01:28:27,480 --> 01:28:29,600
wrong as well because Google is 
very often wrong. 

1638
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:33,400
Wronger than wrong. 
And if Brian Google is 

1639
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:40,560
listening, I stand by that. 
Next, talking about the episode 

1640
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:42,680
we did on Peter Sellers and 
Irene Handle, which was 

1641
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:46,720
amazingly well received and so 
much fun to make as well. 

1642
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:52,120
Ian Malkin said fantastic stuff.
It's funny, Irene has a 

1643
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:54,640
filmography longer than both my 
arms and one of my legs. 

1644
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:58,160
But to me she'll always be 
Granny, AKA my little fruit bat 

1645
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,960
from Metal Mickey. 
I'm inclined to agree with you 

1646
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:05,640
Ian, because she was my my 
illest memory of Irene was on 

1647
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:11,720
Metal Mickey as I said on the 
show and Maggie Spaniel said. 

1648
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:14,200
Excellent episode. 
Nice to have Irene centre stage 

1649
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,960
for a change. 
Also I've had The Sou on the 

1650
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,120
bookshelf for ages now and never
got round to it so this has been

1651
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:24,120
a kick up the backside. 
The Sou of course being Irene's 

1652
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:29,160
first novel. 
What else have we got here? 

1653
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:33,800
Oh, Andrew Pixley, the great 
Andrew Pixley, everyone stand, 

1654
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:36,360
he said. 
Just wanted to drop you a quick 

1655
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:39,360
line to say how much have been 
enjoying your recent shows, The 

1656
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:42,360
Lost Goldmine and the Irene 
Handel editions in particular. 

1657
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,680
But this new one is an absolute 
stand out. 

1658
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:48,480
He's talking about the episode 
we did very recently on the 

1659
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:53,360
Galton and Simpson archive. 
He said, mainly because one, 

1660
01:29:53,360 --> 01:29:55,880
it's good to hear Richard, 
that's Richard Usher taking 

1661
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:58,800
pragmatic steps to valiantly 
look after the GSPS. 

1662
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:02,480
It was such an absolute delight 
to hear Gary, Gary Brennan 

1663
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:05,640
talking about his work. 
Having spent years of my life in

1664
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:08,480
archives going through such 
documentation with lovely 

1665
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:11,920
archivists, it was wonderful to 
hear him discussing his passion 

1666
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:13,960
and his mindset and his 
approach. 

1667
01:30:14,040 --> 01:30:16,240
Nice one. 
Well, thank you very much, 

1668
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:21,080
Andrew. 
We also had a number of comments

1669
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:24,720
about the most recent episode on
Curry and chips. 

1670
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:28,880
Again, very well received. 
We did have a few comments on 

1671
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:35,080
Facebook, which I don't really 
want to mention, but Phil 

1672
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:35,960
Shoebridge. 
Hello. 

1673
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:39,240
Phil did say thank you for 
watching us, so I don't have to.

1674
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:42,760
I am here to serve Philip. 
I'm here to serve. 

1675
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:49,120
Just enough time for me to point
out that next week's episode is 

1676
01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,720
Goonpod's 200th episode. 
Can you believe that? 

1677
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:55,840
Can't believe it really. 
And to mark the occasion, I am 

1678
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,880
welcoming a couple of very 
special guests to talk about a 

1679
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:03,320
very special Goon Show project. 
Intriguing TuneIn next week, 

1680
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:04,560
folks, to find out what that's 
about. 

1681
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,240
As it is the show's 200th 
episode. 

1682
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,760
I would welcome any comments or 
questions about Goon from you 

1683
01:31:10,760 --> 01:31:13,000
listeners that I can include in 
the show. 

1684
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,600
So please lick the ends of your 
pencils and and then throw them 

1685
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:19,080
away because they're useless for
sending emails or DMS on 

1686
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:22,840
Facebook or Blue Sky. 
But do please send in comments, 

1687
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:27,120
questions, anything, even if 
it's just just saying nice 

1688
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,760
things about me. 
I, I, I can take it. 

1689
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:34,200
OK any who time to go. 
Thank you so much for listening.

1690
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:36,440
Hope you've learnt lots of 
stuff, lots of lovely stuff 

1691
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:40,120
about John Emperors. 
Until I see you again next week.

1692
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:41,000
Bye.