How do you always been interested in comedy, anyway,
where you into the goons, when they absolutely, no television?
No, while we were there, but we had journey into space and, of
course, you know, the gun show. And I've always said about the
goons, it's like the pen is mightier than the budget.
You know, you can go anywhere with that imagination and spikes
imagination was one and the stupidity of, you know, oh, the
Sun is hot. Well, don't touch it.
You know, I mean, that's, you know what, complex banished we
are. We sort of, we feel the misery
and we have To laugh. Hello and welcome to goon pod
this week. I am so lucky to be joined by
Lori Grimshaw. Who is a radio producer?
Notably on BBC Radio 4 extra? She's been involved with special
programs about the likes of Barry.
Humphries Les, Dawson the bonzo's and Neil Innes.
She's also written for radio and Is one of the regular presenters
on podcasts radio our so Laura. And I talked about love of
comedy, and classic comedy in particular and where it sits in
modern broadcasting. Now, one thing, this was
recorded a week before the recent news that Radio 4 extra
is to be moved to BBC sounds. And after that it's future is
unclear, which I'm sure anyone listening to this.
Not be pleased about have a listen.
I hope you enjoy the show. So silhouette.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
It's delightful to be here. Thank you for asking me now,
right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I
you have gone on record as saying that your two favorite
things in the world, chips and comedy.
Where's that from? I've been stalking you on
Twitter. I mean, that's, that's probably
fair. I mean, I think any probably
food and comedy but yes, yeah. I mean, I'm a fan of chips.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a fan of chips.
But yes, yeah, I I comedy is sort of part of my fundamental
being. I think it's sort of been a
lifelong fan and into a kind of real nerdy, teenage comedy fan.
And then I've kind of made a career out of it, sort of.
So, yeah, it's definitely the the constant in my life.
Life is finding new things that make me laugh and enjoying them
and sharing them. Okay.
Well, okay, so we won't spend an hour talking about chips.
Will have lots to say about chips.
So you say that you've comedies being your life, you grew up
with comedy. Did you sort of decide from an
early age that you wanted to be on the radio?
Or get involved with the production of Comedy?
Yes. I used to like a lot.
Lot of people, I think a lot of radio people certainly, I had my
own tape recorder and I used to make my own sketch shows, and
comedy shows when one of my friends as like a, like an
eight-year-old. So yes.
And we used to kind of play. Well, you know, relevant to this
used to play goon show records, and python records and things
like that into our sketches and then we would write our own poor
ripoff. Version, see things and perform
them and I have still have some of those tapes and they will
never see the light of day. But yeah, I and I, there's a,
there's a cutting from my local paper where I was in the local
paper for some reason. And I was asked what I wanted to
do, and I said, I wanted to be a comedy writer, and I've not
really done the writing bit, although that is a part of my
job. It was just, yeah, I I enjoyed
it so much sort of watching it on telly, listening to on the
radio then going and seeing it live.
It was I just wanted to do that. I wanted to be around those
people. I knew quite early on that.
Those were my people. Yeah.
There exists somewhere.
Probably still. There's a tape that I made when
I was probably about 10 years old, there was a documentary on
TV celebrating 50 years of Donald Duck in the 80s.
Hosted by Dick Van, Dyke. Hey, and the, and the
documentary. There is a point to this.
Okay. Doctor, the documentary included
interviews are quotes interviews between dick and Donald Duck.
And so, the B sound bites, Donald Duck would be saying
stuff. And I taped it, I put the tape
recorder up close to the TV and recorded the audio of this this
show. Yeah.
Then and then I would make these sketches myself.
Elf of me interviewing Donald Duck.
Yeah yeah I mean I think most of my hands are clammy.
I quite like that. Those things happen and like
that the you can sort of see the through line from that.
You can see how that that child became this out all, you know, I
quite like that when you when you hear about that and it's
like I like that. I am an audio producer, radio
producer and I used to make my own radio show.
He's, I think that's really funny.
I think it's really sweet. I would, if I would, I would, I
would say that probably everybody working in radio has
probably, you know, in their childhood grown up making their
own. Yeah, I had hoped possibly with
lots of people. Do you have?
Well I would I would say the one exception is probably Bruno
Brookes. But no, possibly not, but yeah,
you mentioned there obviously. You are a presenter.
And producer on radio for ready for extra as well.
Yeah. And you've been involved in the
production of a lot of documentaries, and special shows
about comedy or comedians or comedy outfits, for one of a
better word, such as the bonzo's.
Neil, Innes Les Dawson, Ken Campbell.
You also hosts the podcast Radio Hour.
Yes. So, tell me about that.
So that's that's the program I produce and present.
So that's the only time I'm actually talking the rest of it
is just production, really, but the sepulchers radio hour is a
weekly show on BBC, Radio, 4 extra, and we basically round up
a selection of podcasts on a theme and we kind of recommend
them and you kind of talk about why they're good and speak to
interview the people that make them.
So, It's really interesting actually because you get to
listen to a lot of new stuff. You get to give a platform to
stuff that maybe otherwise wouldn't get on the BBC.
You get to hear lots of different voices vehicles from
you people. It's so it's really interesting
thing to work on, and there are so many podcasts.
It is quite a lot of work, but yeah, it's quite nice to kind of
have that mix of stuff, and it's not all comedy, but there are,
you know, there are so many comedy podcasts.
Most comedians have a podcast, so they there's a Of Comedy
featured as well. And we have co-hosts and things
like that. So, yeah.
It's it's a really interesting series to work on because
there's just so many different elements to it is it is it is it
Go garden shed, produced podcast, as well as the Slick
professionally, but yeah, it's all of it.
So you know, we might pick a pick a theme and they can range
from, you know, just basic like comedy, funny podcast right
through to, like I've done ones on adoption and mental health.
And we've done ones on pet themed podcasts, and Pub themed
podcast and things like that. So yeah, yeah.
There is really I think if we can kind of find an interesting
angle to collect a group of podcast together, we can we can
do it. And the adoption was actually
quite interesting because I co-presented that with John
Holmes, who is adopted and he we spoke to them sis, a, and twana
Main, and Mark steel. So it's all kind of Comedy
performers. You know, I love this is
obviously an excellent poet but he's a performer and so it's
quite an interesting things, they're all adopted and they had
all either appeared on podcasts or had their own podcasts or
series about their childhoods. And it was fascinating, really.
So it had a comedy element to it, but it was a serious subject
and it was just this really lovely kind of warm very Human
episode. It was, it was great.
It was really lovely to kind of be a part of that and put that
together I mean Almost everyone was great, but Mark stealing
particular interview is really funny.
So yeah, it's nice to kind of deal with trickier stuff, but
have a kind of sense of humor about it, really?
Yeah. And tell me about the shows that
you've been involved in producing.
So you've I know that you're a, massive Bonzo fan, and a new and
Neil Innes. Yeah, really got to know Neal
quite well, didn't you? Yes.
So, one of the lovely things about for extras schedule is on
a Saturday. There is a space for like 3, our
deep dives into the archive. And again, you kind of put it
together on a theme and you kind of see what the BBC archive can
throw up of you know interesting unheard Gems or you know things
that maybe haven't been out since they were first broadcast
sort of 40 50 years ago or whatever.
Because my specialist subject I suppose is comedy and comedy of
an era I have made. Programs.
I've met through our specialized.
I made one about this. Stanshall who is the lead singer
of the bonzo's and I made that with Neil Innes.
That's where we met. Really, that's where we first
worked together. I made one about Les Dawson,
about Ken Campbell about Barry. Humphries at the end of 2020.
I also made one about the life and work of Neil Innes.
So, we work together a fair bit, we made this special about Viv
stanshall, and we got on So well, when we were working
together, we stayed in touch and, you know, sorry to each
other outside of work. And yeah, he was it, he was
amazing and really, very dear to me and very generous with advice
early in my career and sort of really kind of taught me.
How to be creative in a way I perhaps wouldn't have been brave
enough to do without that step, you know, actually kind of
having confidence in. Well, if I find it entertaining
or interesting, it's probably worth following up and, you
know, just having that confidence of knowing what is
funny and what will work and what will appeal to people.
And he, you know, I think he was his whole career as a testament
to his ability to try out new stuff and You know, constantly
try different angles and different sounds and different
media and all of that kind of stuff.
So, yeah, he was, he was amazing and it's, I still can't quite
get over. The fact that I can say that I
knew him. And yeah, it was an absolute
honor to spend any time in his company, let alone quite a lot
of time and his company. It was sort of big outpouring of
grief from just about everybody, who knew it was just crazy but
lovely because it is we felt we were all together in a shot was
huge. It was in Credibly lucky that 54
years of Neil. It makes cheers me up.
When I think of it life, he was really, really bright how he
thought about the world and then links he made between things and
the way he thought was astonishing to me as well, you
know. And yet I saw a lot of it but he
spent a lot of time thinking which nobody does except Neil,
did he made that time? Because that's whole heart.
What it was? He needed to know how he felt
about things, they would sit and think about.
It didn't work at all. He enjoyed his life and he gave
so much to people and they gave it back to him in Spades.
He took everything from his life that he could get from it.
The mented relevant to this as well.
Neal was a huge fan of the games.
So we talked about those quite a lot and yeah, it's he was
steeped in comedy tradition as well.
Neal just seems so approachable, and yes, I giving of his time.
And everything. I've read about him as being as
being, you know, what a great guy he wasn't.
I always think of him whenever someone mentions Neil in is the
first image that pops into my head, is him in Holy Grail doing
the brave sir Robin. Yes.
He was not afraid to die for. Okay.
So he was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways.
Great. He was not in the least bit
scared to be mashed into a pulp, or to have his eyes gouged out
and his elbows broken to have his kneecap split and his body
burned away and his limbs all hacked and mangled race, or
robbing his head smashed in, and his heart, cut out, and his
liver removed, and 1,000-plus, and his nostrils raped.
And he's fuckin burnt off in his blood.
That's a that's enough music for Now Lads.
Yeah yeah I mean he worked so closely with python and wasn't
you know, in in the films and in the series.
Yeah he was he was a very interesting, very funny,
delightfully odd, man. Like just a lovely way of
thinking about things that that is not the norm.
And yeah, I learned so much from just being around him.
He was he was incredible. And I've heard you talk about it
before and talked about the bonzo's in general, but they
didn't set out and they had no intention of being pop stars, as
you know, that the the way their career went was that, you know,
they were doing kind of mad shows at Art School which were
kind of like art installations and they had kind of lots of mad
kind of sculptures and artworks and exploding robot mannequin
things and you know, all sorts of craziness on stage.
So they had this like very Very vibrant that live show, and then
they were given a slot on, do not adjust your set, which was a
kids TV show in the 60s, which had Eric idle, Michael Palin,
Terry Jones, and also Denise coffee and David, Jason in it.
And so, they were like, the musical act on that.
And so, they did lots of like crazy turns where they did
strange songs, and very strange sets and things like, Matt, but
they were just this kind of musical interlude in this comedy
sketch, show for kids, and that's where they met, you know,
half the pythons. And that's where hmm, that was,
where that kind of crossover came about.
I'm sure we'll come back to to kneel and the guys but what was
Barry Humphries like? Did you actually speak in deal
with? Did you meet?
Barry. Yeah, that was yeah.
So the program was presented by Kathy let who don't know if you
know how to do wonderful. Novelist.
And force of Nature. And she is friends with Barry.
So she arranged for us to record the whole program in her
kitchen. And and Barry was that was
there. So she we did a sort of feature
length interview with him talking about his career.
So yeah, I got to spend an afternoon in the company of
Barry Humphries which was amazing.
Absolutely amazing. And again, let you know just
another What's also interesting about all these people and I
think it's true of, you know, Spike Milligan as well.
It's like the just the way their minds work is not like anyone
else, you know, the way they see the world and the way they think
about things and the way they approach things is so different
to, you know, the norm, the day-to-day kind of stuff.
It's this constant searching for either the joke or the laughs,
or how, To stop this being boring and it's so exciting to
kind of actually witness that firsthand where it's just, how
do you bring conversation to life?
How do you, how do you entertain people?
I suppose. And he you know, Barry Humphries
was very much like that. So, you know, there were lots of
jokes and lots of I was going to say lies.
But, you know, man, deliberately so like it's in kind of Just
messing with the truth in order to get Aloft anything.
But it's just yeah, it was just fantastic to see.
So in that, in that program, so it was a three-hour special.
So it was him kind of reflecting on these programs that we pulled
out the archive and like, you know, he's again a fascinating
man and he has lots of interests and he is very into the period
of history of like my my Germany and that kind of thing.
So he had presented ready for documentaries about kind of
Cabaret. In Germany in the 20s and that
kind of thing. So there's lots of stuff like
that. So it was him kind of reflecting
on that. So obviously, you know, he's
known for Dame Edna which is obviously this incredible thing,
but there's so many other interesting angles to him and,
you know, he's very into art and very into yes different types of
four months. And yeah, just another
fascinating man, to listen to, I wish I could remember, I must
have been 30 years ago. I saw a documentary about Barry
Humphries Something that do anything that sticks in my mind.
I mean, I'm a, I was a fan and I'm a fan of a lot of his stuff.
But, yeah, he told the story and he may have told this to you, or
you may be aware of this, and I've got it, I'm sure I've got
it completely wrong. But in my memory, when he was
growing up, when he was a teenager in Melbourne.
Hmm. And he told the story he used to
go to this local store once a week.
He and his friends. And I would go to the store
keeper and they would ask to see a piece of soap.
Let him at that was you know, on display behind the counter.
Yeah. And the storekeeper would reach
and get the soap and put it on the counter and then burying his
friends would do and are at the soap and then say, thank you,
very politely and leave. Okay.
And a my memory is that he said, every week they would go in to
see the soap, right? And they sustain this for maybe
eight, maybe 12 months. Okay he said and then he said
the key to it was that then one week we went in and we didn't
ask to see the soap and the storekeeper went mad and say
that you want to see the soap and he said it was worth it for
that. It's just playing such a long
game but that's the thing. It's just like, you know, how
would, how do you arrive at that?
How do you set that up like, you know, putting the Effort into
saying that up is yeah but but yeah obviously you with touched
very very slightly on on the res of this podcast which is well
it's the goons with the Goon show and and sellers seek Him
Milligan and benteen and everything to do with them and I
invited you unlock Laura, because I wanted to talk to you.
But, you know, I know that you have.
You did, girl. To send degree listening to the
goons. How did you?
Because I gather you are the right side of 40 still don't
want to go in there. I'm terribly.
Young terribly, aren't terribly young.
So, how did, how the hell did you get in to the gun show?
So growing up, I lived with my mum and my Nana and my
granddaughter said her parents, so the and I was the only child,
right? Which basically meant, I was
spoiled rotten with attention and I guess, you know, I don't
think it wasn't like a deliberate thing.
I don't think anybody set out to kind of go, oh, you shall make a
career of this, but I was just brought up watching and
listening to Comedy. So I vividly.
Remember my name. Sharing with me like the radio
show she listened to as a kid. So that would be the Goon show
round the horn much binding in the marsh, things like that,
hmm. And she would just she loved
these things and loved silliness.
That was the thing. And, and, you know, she and my
granddaughter were a good match. He was, he had a lovely silly
sense of humor and liked all of these same things and then,
similarly, my mum. Also kind of shared with me the
stuff she watched when she was younger.
So she brought me up watching Python and you know that then
led to the kind of the bonzo's and that kind of thing.
So yeah, it was just There was no II.
There was never a point in my life where like, I can't
remember having not been aware of who Spike Milligan was, who
Peter Sellers was who's Harry seeking was, who the pythons?
Where are they? They were just there, they were
always part of my, like, this is this is what the good people
like this is, this is funny, this is what comedy is.
And it's there's a lot to be said, I think for that grounding
because it just gave me the feeling that, comedy is You
know, it doesn't have to be serious.
It doesn't have to be satirical, IE.
It can just be stupid. It can, it can kind of have a
point and make it in a very silly way or it can have no
point and just be silly. And that's funny too.
And I think this Joy of enjoying yourself and sharing that with
other people as a means of making laugh.
Is kind of what I got from listening to that.
And actually, I mean what I have it sitting next to me and I have
talked about this on Radio 4 extra before, but I actually
have the the vinyl decal records 1957 copy of the young tone song
would be side of. I'm walking back from where it
was Christmas, which was my mom's and I played this, you
know, on those radio shows I used to make but I played this
so much as a kid. Right can still you know I still
know all of the words and all of the madbeatz and everything.
It takes you like the journey it takes you on and it's one of my
most treasured possessions really I still have this tiny
tiny in tongues on record I show you okay.
Oh wow yeah that's yeah its original its original wrapping
and everything. Yeah.
So This is yeah, this is my childhood, this this record.
It's yeah, I listen to it so often.
Yes ma'am. I'm walking Mike wants for
Christmas across the Irish sea walking to my quads of on
Christmas. It's the only thing for me.
Walking sideways and walking toward the front.
People just look at me and say the publicity stunt, I'm walking
backwards for Christmas. Would you say cuz obviously the
Goon show, can can claim to be influenced by things, like, the
Marx Brothers. And people have read, you seen
Edward layer and Lewis Carroll influences, and even even things
like Hollywood cartoons have influence.
Yeah, the Goon show, but would you say it is?
What's the word? What the culture was year?
Zero for British comedy, in a way it does kind of feel like
that. And I think the reason it feels
like that always put a pause because it's partly true.
But, you know obviously nothing is like There's no new ideas are
there. It's all kind of everything
comes from somewhere but I think the reason it feels like it's
true is because Because of python and they, you know, all
of them and and then also the bonzo's as well.
And Neil they all talk about hearing the Goon show for the
first time and it blowing their minds.
It just being this chaotic anarchic fun, like actual fun,
and everything was so prim and proper, and this is how you are,
and this is how we need to be. And, you know, Daniel always
describe it as like women in head-to-head scar stress.
Like, Waiting and it's like, you know, everybody was very Prim
and, you know, all very proper and this is, this is this is
what we have to be. And the goons weren't that, and
then that made the pythons not that and it made the bonzo's,
not that because it just showed this other way.
And as I was saying that the joy in that, You know, if you if
that if that tickles you, if that does make you laugh but
it's just complete unabashed joy.
And so then you if you can kind of run with that feeling of
well, we're going to make entertainment that is joyful
silly, you know, let's just escape the horrors of the world
which obviously was a huge thing for for Spike, you know.
That's A lot of his comedy was about, you know, not either
dealing head-on with the awfulness or avoiding the
awfulness. That's what that's what drove
him to write his comedy. And yeah, you can kind of, you
can hear that in the way they talk about war and army
generals, and those proper people.
You know, those proper people are the bad people.
Those proper people are the ones who get us into trouble.
And that's a message that still Rings true today.
It's you know, these are all things that kind of fed into
Python and then obviously, you know, I there are very few You
know, famous modern Comics who don't like python has an
influence. It's it's just that showing that
there is another way and if python show people that it's
because of the goons. Yeah, absolutely.
And of course, the goons were, I'm not going to say
revolutionary, but in terms of radio, comedy in Britain in the
50s, having not really having, you know, having a beginning,
having a middle sometimes, not really an end and and things.
Just explode. I can really run with that not
into things. Well, the gains were punctuated
sequence with an explosion or yeah, but that's also why the
goons shot sounded like nothing else that had been before
because of the sound effects, the, the actual, you know, the
radio nerdery available in listening to the particularly
series of the goons, it was like nothing else.
Nobody used radio and sound as well as they did it.
You know, they took you. On a journey and it's, you know,
the beauty of radio is, you know, unlike Telly.
You don't actually have to be in the place you are.
You can create these worlds with sounds and they've really did
that in in a quite a magical way really, you know, it was like it
was genuinely like nothing else before it and it just opened up
this world of possibility of like, well, we can, we can do
anything with sound really, we can make anything happen.
We can say we're anywhere, we can create any kind of world in
time, back at the camp, there, the German POW Camp, it's an
abbreviation of prisoner Say para said, saves a necessity is
in prison Awards. Much shorter takes less time at
this game. We were having a party.
We'd completed the bridge and all the layers and having a
sing-song definitive, she home major spoon.
Thank you, man. Well, as you can see, we've
taught our captors how we English can build a wooden
bridge over a water river. So let us stand raise our right
legs and sing our national anthem a few years ago on the
radio for extra comedy club, which is every night from 10:00
till midnight. And we have some kind of more
recent, so not your classic comedies, but more recent radio
comedies from like the last sort of 30 years or so.
And it's presented by comedian. So we have a great range of
comics Who present on their legacy City and John Holmes, and
Jessica Foster q and Jake. Yap, and lots of other lovely
people. I'm not going to list all of
them, but they, a few years ago, Jake and I did a gun show,
special in the comedy club, where we rebroadcast.
Just a couple of our favorite episodes and we were really
lucky enough to interview normal Farms, who was spikes agent.
Yes. And Eric Sykes is Agent.
And another one of those force of nature, kind of people.
She, yeah. She was brilliant.
She was full of stories and it's actually available.
You can listen to the interview on BBC.
Sounds, if you, if you want to go and seek it out and there's
still has it. It is on there, still?
Yeah. But So, Jake and I were kind of
lucky enough to, to chat to her for that, which was amazing
because she was, she was brilliant.
And she invited us to the London performance of the Goon show
tour, which was a real re-creation of a goon show
recording. So that it was a, it was a live
performance of one of the scripts or a couple of scripts.
And then afterwards there was a Q&A which Jake hosted and the
guests were Norma and Jane Milligan.
And She is odd. So it was just a wonderful
evening of kind of goon show fandom and insight stories and
all of this kind of stuff. So it was an amazing opportunity
and that all came about because we had such a lovely time.
Chatting didn't bomber on the comedy club and I just went
along watched it. I just went along for the ride
but yeah, it was great. You know what's so amazing about
this job is just getting to actually meet these people that
have been involved in. Some of the most important and
informative things in my life. It's incredible to just actually
get to hear stories and hear them tell those stories.
It's amazing. Yes.
And you know it's nice to kind of record them and put them on
the radio so other people can enjoy them, too.
The idea with the four of them and thought that would quite
talented and he arranged for them to do a pilot pilot was
called cells castle and they were hoped that Roy was going to
be the producer and they brought somebody in college sharks Brown
who wasn't on the wavelengths at all and was Auntie Studio.
Audiences for comedy. Oh, they okay.
They would do it without the audience but it wouldn't be
heard by the planners until the four boys got together and
decided whether it was good or bad.
He made this pact but he went back on his word.
Oh and the kind of said it was Bloody awful.
And so do you are there any particular goon show episode
your characters that stick in your mind or even sequences from
shows that? You're particularly fond of.
There's, so there's so much, I'd you know what?
I don't even think I can be specific, which is possibly not
helpful. I just because I will listen to
so much of it as a kid. It almost like it sort of washed
over me, you know, in a way that I just sort of immersed myself
in it and and enjoyed it. And, you know, it kind of, it's
just always been there for me. And then when I started working
at well, Was BBC seven and it's now ready for extra.
And the goons were on it, it just felt so, right?
And it was such a, you know, it was it was it felt like coming
home almost. It was like, so lovely to kind
of have this place where classic comedy is still available to
listen to and, you know, we we broadcast, you know, the the
series regularly because it's one of those Like comedies, that
deserves to be said, to be heard.
And it's like, you know, like around the horn, like Hancock.
It's, it's important. It's actually an important part
of our cultural history. I think so I'll of the Radio 4
extra is the home of it. Yeah, do you know you just on
there? I mean, I'd like to talk about,
let's say it ready for is for being the home of classic comedy
and hmm and how, what sort of Best Thing figures to you.
Get for things like the Goon show for things like Hancock
things like that. So, The classic comedy.
The classic comedies are one of the most listened to things on
the network. So there is still an audience
there. I mean, you know, we have to be
kind of careful with some of the things because a lot of it is of
its time. Shall we say?
As I say it's part of British culture, it is a sort of
foundation block really. And so it's important to
actually be a still have access to it and these things can be
kind of set up as You can kind of contextualize them and give
their place in history and talk about, you know, their influence
on Modern comedy because modern comedy wouldn't be as it is
without these programs. So yeah, there is definitely an
audience out there for it because it's one of the most
listened to things on for extra. So and I know that the gun show
over the years has has been I mean, even when it, you know,
when it went out it was edited for overseas sales and mmm.
It's were taken out and sometimes It's were put back in
in later years. Yeah, and and it, you know, even
the commercial releases in the 60s, they would take the music
out. So it's always being word
facilitated, I suppose even. Yeah.
And there are, you know, when I was growing up listening to it
as a teenager at that time there were there were sometimes
sequences or lines or characters in the show which we've
completely To me at the time. Innocuous.
But you listen back now and you kind of think we all know it's
time has moved on now and yeah, I'm not saying that this is what
you guys would do it for extra. But, you know, I know that that
a lot of people who are sort of DieHard fans of classic comedy
sometimes. Get annoyed when radio stations
or broadcasters Tamp, what they say, what?
They perceive as tamper with the classics.
Yeah. Okay.
And what I would say to that is if you know, fine.
Everything is out there available in some shape or form.
And if you if you want to in the case of, you know, I don't know,
an old classic television series, you might buy the DVD,
you've invited that into your home in a sense, you know, if
it's uncut, that's all well and good because you've taken the
choice to bring that into your home and screen it.
The same goes for a CD of radio comedy.
Yeah, but the something that's going on the radio, You've Got
No Control roll over that and then you don't get screwed in
casting, the very word itself is broadcasting.
That's the that's the thing. And it, you know, my my feeling
on it is and this is me talking as me, not as a representative
of the BBC. Just but I kind of feel like
with something like the Goon show there is, there are some
things that are and I will politely say of their time.
There are some things that now are just not, okay?
And not funny and I think it would be a real shame given that
for As have this platform to share these classic comedies and
you know possibly show them to share them with new audiences.
I can't see the harm in removing things that would make them
completely unpalatable to a new audience when you're actually a
when you're able to share the kind of joy and the
groundbreaking nature of, you know, the use of audio and the
writing. I you know, some some some of
the gun show is just Utterly brilliant, and the best examples
of Comedy. If you can share that with a new
audience by slightly, tweaking it so that it's not completely
unpalatable to to a modern audience or to new audiences.
I don't see why you wouldn't do that.
Sure, yeah, good. So yeah, moving on, in terms of
python and and you got into pie from through your mum.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I suppose there was sort of a
thing of like, Python felt, and this makes me sound really old.
But pythian felt kind of knew when it was still happening.
The people were still around still working.
Yeah. Whereas I think the Goon show
felt like a historical thing, so while I listened to it, and I
loved it. And, you know, I was, I was very
aware of how influential and important it was I think in
terms of active fandom, I got carried along with the pythons.
So I think that's what happened, but obviously, you know, the
nature of my job, but also dipping into To listening to the
gun show and I mean spikes, poetry as well is a thing.
I, you know, I have I have some of these collected poems and
things like that, you know, I've always, I know, I keep saying
this, but they've just always been there, they've always been
there. And I, I love that, I'm very
grateful, that that is true. And what I like is, as I've met
people and worked with people and, you know, cultivating
relationships with various Brilliantly, talented people, we
have this shared thing that covers the goons and Python, and
this sort of shared fandom thing.
And when I worked with Neil Innes, we had this shed thing
with the goons and, and the joy of the goons and, and how great
it was. And also, there's no way of
saying this without sounding, like, I'm just name-dropping,
but I know one we worked on. Of the programs we made.
We had Terry Gilliam as a guest and the three of us went out for
lunch. After we record it, which is one
of the most ridiculous and joyous things, whatever happened
to be and that lunch we were talking about the goons and how
incredible it was and how mind-blowing it was.
And how that kind of, you know, without the goons, there
wouldn't have been Python and without python there wouldn't be
comedy here and in and in America really like, you know,
influenced everything so yeah. It's so important.
And when I went, I stayed with Neil in France a few years ago
and he found out that I hadn't seen doc.
So we were trying to find a film to watch and I said, I had he
was suggesting films and I said, oh, I hadn't seen dr.
Strangelove and so, he made us watch it.
It's so, so my experience of watching, dr.
Strangelove was in Neil. Innes is living room.
Which is which is great. It's, you know, I have a I would
have a great affection for that film anyway because it's funny
and it's silly and it's ridiculous.
But also just to add that layer to it in my life is.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. I stopped name-dropping.
Now, that's all right. What was Terry like in general?
How did he was? He was he just just full of
stories or was he? Yeah, just so, you know, he was
so alive, you know? So just exciting and interested
and the conversation was so wide-ranging and it darted all
over the place. And, you know, he was kind of
angry, like angry about the state of the world politics, and
all of that, which is something Neil.
Also wasn't something I also am. So it's yeah.
Yeah, it was, it was very yeah, I'd live.
I think. Is that is the word.
It's just, it was so kind of Fast-paced conversation, it was
amazing. It was really amazing to be able
to keep up. I think I did just watch for a
little bit, to be honest. But yeah.
You know, it's just one of those things where you go.
I can't I can't pass up this opportunity.
Yeah. And what about Ken Campbell you
did a three hour show on Campbell I did.
So I never met Ken Campbell And this came about.
So I worked with Diane Morgan a lot?
Yes. So she she presented the program
I made about Neal's life and work and we've done a couple of
other programs together. We've known each other quite a
while. We've actually used to go and
see the bonzo's together and things like that.
So you know we've known each other for ages and she worked
with Ken Campbell her first acting job was In the warp, can
Campbell's, 24-hour play. And so she met him, loved him
and wanted to, you know, wanted to celebrate him in the way that
I had done with the things that I loved.
And so we made it together. So this, you know, the Ken
Campbell one wasn't my, it wasn't my personal project.
If you see what I mean, like the other things.
Yes. Like Les Dawson and the eyes and
stuff would like my personal loves but Yeah, this was
Diane's. You know, requests if you like
and it was a, it was such an incredible journey that we went
on. And we interviewed Nina Conti
and just had this, you know, incredible.
So because she adored him and she has all of his ventriloquist
dummies now and he changed her life.
Like, you know, completely changed the course of her life
and career. So it's it was just an
incredible thing to hear her talk about.
Him with such love and affection and emotion.
But again, he's just he is another one of those people that
thinks about things in a completely different way that
had this approach to life that was you know, not like anybody
else. It was always trying to be
different trying to, where's the fun?
Do you know and Diane said that when he was directing her and
things. And this has been backed up by
other people. It's like, do whatever you want,
but don't be boring. During its that it's just like
don't bore me, like, whatever you're going to do entertain me,
this is entertainment. If we're not having fun, we're
doing it wrong to quote, Neil. Innes.
It's like, that's, you know, that's the point of all of this.
If we're working in comedy, were working in entertainment.
We should be having fun. Yeah, if you're not, if you're
not, you're doing it wrong. And yeah, Ken Campbell
definitely had that sort of an attitude.
And yeah, that again, just fascinating stories about a
fascinating man. Yeah, we discuss Kim Campbell on
this show before. Hmm, one of those pioneering
entertainers who on the sort of Fringe Of Fame.
What are those recognizable faces?
But people can't really put a name to that, they'd have
settled, that they'll have seen in that episode of Fawlty
Towers. And yes, and it was elf, garnets
neighbor and but that's it. But there's just so much more to
him than that. Yeah, the the pursuit of like,
All the way he kind of taught people how to improvise and like
accessing the lizard brain where you don't think about what
you're doing, you feel it, and you are it and you immerse
yourself in it and it's just a completely different way of
Performing and yeah. It's fact it's fascinating and
it's fascinating to hear the people that he taught or
mentored kind of talked about, how it just changes, how they do
things. And therefore it changes the
opportunities they've had and the things that I've done.
Yeah. It's the power of of these sorts
of people is, is incredible. Yeah.
And one of the this is one of the great things about doing
this podcast. Is that?
Yes as you know talk about the goons goons, some talk about
Sellers and Milligan and whatnot but as with our conversation
today, it will spin off. We'll talk about other people
who have been hugely influential figures in terms of the world of
British comedy or comedy in general.
Wrong. And and someone might Ken
Campbell is right up there. Yeah, I'm thinking with, you
know, I've had Michael lives Leon previously.
Who? Yeah.
You don't you know Michael? Yes, yeah, yeah.
Who'd worked with the bonzo's and he was talking about Bruce
Lacey. Yeah.
And people like that. And it's a shame that these
people aren't celebrated anymore.
Unsellable, where difference? Celebrated to a huge extent in
their lifetimes. Yeah and I, you know, I quite
like that for extras, use of the BBC archive, and Country
broadcasting these things, just it's just kind of Sharing those
people that had the huge effect on the people around them and
kind of sharing their stories and their life and work.
It's I think it's, it's a good thing to do, really.
Do you have an opinion on on radio comedy now or over the
last 10 to 20 years? Do you have an opinion either
way? I mean that that sounds like
that there can only be one opinion because you know I think
there's a there's a Thing on for extra like, you know, we have a
classic comedy, our everyday and some of the classic comedies are
genuine, bona fide, classic comedies and they absolutely
should be rebroadcast. They should be rebroadcast
regularly. We should have, or have regular
opportunities to hear the blood donor or, you know, whatever
like Hancock round, the horn these and the goons these
incredible groundbreaking series.
But then there are some comedies that are just old and that's
maybe not enough. And That's true.
That's true then and it's true now.
So some radio comedy Now is brilliant.
There are some brilliant things on.
There are also some not great things, but that's sort of the
point of Comedy troupe is yeah, comedy is subjective.
I'm sure some people don't like the things I like and some
people will like the things I don't like, and people's sense
of humor does vary wildly and I think people, There should be
sort of available comedy for for everybody on the radio.
So, you know, there's some stuff I really like, there's some
stuff I don't really like and that should be true of
everybody. And that would be true of the
comedy commissioner, and comedy producers everywhere.
Yeah, there's that, there's that tedious argument that people
people on forums always, well, about the Golden Age of Comedy
or the Golden Age of TV or whatever it may be forgetting
that 80-85 percent of it. That's forgot was forgettable.
Is yes, it was. Oh wait.
Yeah, disposable. Yeah, I mean, what is great
about comedy? Now, is its Diversified
massively. So there are, there are so many
different possible platforms for people to find their voice to
find what they want to say, and how they want to say it and work
all that stuff out. There's so many different
opportunities available. It's not just Radio anymore, and
it's not just Telly anymore and it's not just white men anymore.
So it's and that's that's a good thing.
That's a great thing. There are so many brilliant
Comics that you you know probably wouldn't have had an
opportunity during this so-called major of Comedy, do
you think there's too much stuff now?
Do you think too much choice in terms of That at the beginning
like when you know to move talking about me doing podcasts,
radio hour and Randall, that stuff up there is so much stuff.
Yes. And I think it would be I think
is probably impossible to even, listen, to all the stuff you
like, I think there is too much stuff, but the thing is, I think
things do find Their audience. So, yeah, I you know, I don't
think it's a bad thing. I think, what the problem is is
that, you know, Asians haven't really caught up with funding
the different elements that are available to people.
So, there are places where the money is to fund things and
budget for things. And there is, there are, you
know, places where you can create stuff, but you perhaps
won't get paid for it. Yeah, so yeah, it's just I'm
just asking because I obviously, I love comedy.
Hmm. And it's been I don't really,
I'm not really kept my finger on the pulse of modern company I
suppose for what Better phrase. All the comedy is sold.
Watch things like inside number 9, or yeah.
All the recent Partridge series because it's comforting.
It's something that I'm, it's people that I'm aware of if you
like, but it's really difficult for me to discover new comic,
not difficult. It's just, I don't listen to the
radio as much as I used to, or be honest because podcasts have
taken over. Yeah.
And whereas I used to listen to so for all the time in the, you
know, 20 years ago, sorry I've been clearer but listening to
Marcus big stop show. What is it?
Charles won't be hog and things like that, I discovered things
like that through, listen to the radio.
But but it's the last 10 years, even 15 years, I think the last
comedy series that I actually discovered purely by accident
and just how with laughter within minutes of discovering it
was I was flicking through channels about five years ago.
And toast of London was our yeah these are super fun was a
pseudonym. Sometimes used by a rival of
mine, a total Pratt, by the name of Ray purchase.
But yeah, it's difficult. Now to kind of get a foothold in
terms of comedy and terms of I listen to John finnemore
souvenir program. I thought that was excellent.
Yeah, but that's about it. Really But the thing is that,
you know, there is a, there's a lot of good stuff available and
there's a lot of good stuff available just online.
And you kind of say that you listen to podcasts rather than
the radio, but it's like, well, you're still listening, it's
still, it is still that Medium that intimate direct medium.
Its he's still the playing with sound thing.
And so, you know, I think I think it's a huge time of quite
rapid change in terms of broadcasting.
Because of the internet. And so people have a platform
that they can use to kind of share their stuff and share
their creativity. The isn't necessarily making it
to Telly, or to broadcast radio button podcasting means that
people can just go out there and do it and it's not.
Well, why wouldn't you go out there and do it?
If you have faith in your idea, you have an idea, you should go
out there and do it. So yeah.
It's it's hard because there is so much stuff and there's a lot
of noise and I think there's probably just as many creators
as there are listeners now but yes that's you know, I I think I
think you know, the rapid change will mean that broadcasters have
to kind of work out how there. What their model is really.
Because I think it's absolutely valid that all of these things
are available and that people who have something to say get to
say it and say in a way that they want and hopefully they'll
find their voice and they will find Their audience and they
will maybe find other people that they can work with, and
make it better. And that kind of thing, I think
listening, you know, podcasts and radio.
It's very intimate and it is very You know, it's very
personal and actually inviting somebody to speak directly into
your ears is sort of quite, it's quite an honor to have that
opportunity. So it's You know, I think it's
nice that people have the opportunity to kind of put their
ideas and make them happen. So lately because I've met so
many people through in the last 12 months, just read through
doing this through, hmm. Then either being guests on the
show who, you know, people that I've met on social media who
said I really dig the show and I'd like, you know, don't well
either invited themselves on or I've invited them on or
whatever. And also people that, you know,
have just said, look, I'm quite happy just to listen but if
contributed in terms of feedback and comments and information and
all sorts of stuff, so it's it's amazing and it really It's
really, really great creative outlet and probably within 12
months every second person in the world will have a podcast.
Yeah. But so what?
Yeah yeah I you know I think things will find Their audience
or they won't and people stop it or change it or whatever but
it's like you know I think That's the beauty of podcasting
is that it's open to everybody. And, you know, there are some
incredible like independent sketch, comedy podcast that
happening, but aren't funded by anybody that people are just
doing because they have these funny ideas and they want to
share them and there's some really good stuff out there.
So it's like I don't know, I think it's good that people can
kind of make stuff and kind of show what they can do, because
then it also means that, you know, broadcasters can have
something concrete to base a commission on, or something like
that. It's yeah, yeah.
I think it's good and he's like, it's like people have that
opportunity. It's a testing ground in some
ways as. Yeah.
And if people want to hear this sort of thing that they can
listen to things like podcasts radio, our, we're actually doing
a live episode, not broadcasts life, but we're Doing it in
front of an audience at the profile show next week, but that
may not. I don't know when this is going
out, but that may have already happened.
Okay. Well, thank you again.
I'm so I hope it hasn't been too much of a hair-raising
experience for you. No, not at all.
It's been absolutely. Thank you so much, Tyler.
Thanks again to Laura. Thanks for listening, please
follow on Twitter, it's Adkins should pot please rate and
review on iTunes and on Spotify, think you can do that now as
well. And just spread the word I have.
What 50 nearly 60 shows in the archive, they're all available.
So if you haven't read some of those, please go back and seek
them out. And I will be back next week
with another show which I think is going to be about a film.
So, look out for that. Anyway, in the meantime, take
care of yourselves. See you soon.
Bye.