Eddie, now listen to this. You see that's what's happened
to Milligan, who don't want to end up like that.
Here is a preview of next winter in Jimmy Grafton's attic.
The winds state rain and trousers are falling.
The monkeys are still doing it in the soup, and the snow lies
heavy on the slopes of Rachel Well.
The. Hello and welcome to goon pod
bringing sunshine and joy into your rather drab lives.
That went badly. What I meant, dearness, is that
you bring sunshine and joy into my rather drab life.
That's better. So thank you for joining me
again this week. Now we're getting very, very
close to Christmas and I invited back to the show, friend of the
show, stalwart supporter of the show, Roger Stevenson.
So Roger, I asked you along today just just to have a bit
sort of shoot the breeze and have a bit of a chat about what
kind of gave me the idea of I think you you came up with the
idea initially was was ranking people within the goons orbit.
Yeah, I think that's it. It wasn't my idea originally.
It came from the Facebook page, but I think it was Duncan Gray
came up. Duncan Gray.
Of course he did to Duncan Gray. But yes, I did compile a list.
But. The problem with lists is no one
ever agrees with the list. In fact, when I finished it, I
didn't agree with it either. Well, I've been looking at mine.
So we're both independently of each other, written out a list
of in an order of importance, people, people within the Goons
universe, if you like. Exactly.
And that can be that could be writers, that could be
producers, that could be musicians, that could be
performers, whatever. And we we would.
I think you messaged me and said you had a list of 12. 12 good
men and true yes. OK, because I've got a list of
in total 30, the, the, the, the bottom sort of the late 20s.
We are really getting into scraping the barrel.
But but I've, I've got a, I've got a loose list and and I, I
just like to talk through both our lists and see where we,
where we agree and where we, where we depart.
Yeah, sure are. We are.
We're going to take the goons as given and not include them, if
you know what I mean. It's up to you.
I think there's things to say about.
I think there's things to say about them, but we'll keep it
brief. OK, well should we do it in
rather than, you know, like a countdown?
Should we start from the top and work our way down?
Do you? Think, OK, yeah, fine.
OK, so, OK, well, I've, I've included the goons in my list.
Yes. So do you want to kick off with
your number one? Tell me what?
Yes, my number one is Jimmy Grafton.
Elsie, you've not included the games.
I have, but Jimmy Grafton still number 10, right?
Oh, we can. You're doing that.
Are you OK? Doing what?
This is a genuine I think without Jimmy Grafton the girls
wouldn't have existed. I guess so.
You know, because they were just one of hundreds of people D
mobbed in their 20s and searching for Korea.
And these were homing in more or less on comedy.
Although I suspect at the time Spike was more into the music
and without Grafton's Pub and his, I don't know, paternal
attitude towards and the fact that when Harry Secombe turned
up and said I don't like Bradley Band box and it's old fashioned
and tripe and Jimmy Grafton said, well, I write it actually
must have taken a quite a quite, you know, what a nice man to
sort of then be quite happy to discuss instead of saying
there's the dog, get out. Yeah, well, didn't he write?
Did he write for Derek? Roy as well, he did, yes.
Spike, he did. He couldn't stand multi talented
man, Yes. Well, I think the reason he
couldn't stand him was because he wouldn't use he didn't use
much of his material and didn't know how to handle it when he
didn't deliver it very well. I think Jimmy Grafton's vastly
underrated, I mean multi talented man.
He was writing well into the 50s Billy Cotton band show.
He wrote, I believe he wrote when Santa got stuck up the
chimney. So and he certainly wrote songs
for Harry Secombe lyrics, lyrics for songs to Harry Secombe.
But you know, without, without Grafton's then the girls would
have had nowhere to meet. Well, this is true wouldn't have
been able to spoken. I had nowhere to live one point
and the. Thing is, did he, Did Jimmy
Grafton continue as Harry's agent?
Yes, he did. Till when?
Till his? Till he, Till he.
Died till he died? Yes, I think so and I don't.
I haven't. It's difficult to research Jimmy
Grafton. There's apparently got no
footprint on the Internet at all, very little you can find on
him and even things like the gun show preservation society.
The only thing I've found is the interview with his children,
which was down to their memory. So there's very little you can,
which is a great shame because like I say, he was a very
talented man and obviously very, he was a hero during the war,
wasn't he? Got a Military Cross.
So he's a very brave man as well.
So. But yeah, there's so little
about him. And yet if he hadn't of he's, he
must have been the one who saw the talent in Milligan.
The writing talent probably showed him some stuff.
Well, this boy's got something here, and he's the one that
nurtured it. And he put him up as well,
didn't. He, he did, yes.
Yes, it's, it's, I think he spent sort of several years
alternating between Peter Sellers and his parents,
Grafton's flat and of course being on tour with the Bill Hall
trio. But yeah, I mean, and also they
honed their art there, you know, that they put on performances,
they recorded stuff. They could give me.
Grafton, they got a recorder. Without him, the goons wouldn't
have got together and did what they did.
And here, of course, was the one with the contacts working for
the BBC. Yeah, yeah, in the context.
So you make already. Your list is shaping up to make
mine look very trivial in trial, no?
I don't, but I just at one point I thought calling it the
Forgotten Men of the Goons, people who kind of been left out
to some extent or or perhaps thrust in the shadow.
But in the same way as Larry Stevens has been brought to
light by Julie Warren, you know, we've got a much better
understanding than what he did. It'd be lovely if someone
somewhere did the same for Jimmy Grafton.
So because already got, you know, you, I've had to piece
things together about him. There's this bit in the Goon
Show Companion, there's spikes bit in peace work.
We've got, as I said, a bit in the gun show preservation
society, a bit in Ben teens book and you've kind of got to piece
it together like a little jigsaw to see, read between the lines
to see. Without this man, the girls just
wouldn't have happened. That would have been very
unlikely to happen. This this rephrase.
There's probably, there's probably a film in that
somewhere. Yes.
Although the the make a pig's ear of it, no doubt.
So where does he figure on my list, I wonder?
Let let, let us find out. Let's see if he figures on my
list. I've kind of approached this in
a very literal fashion and just thought, OK, in terms of the
goons. So my my number one is Spike
Milligan. He's my number 2 and I think we
we don't need to discuss that very much.
No, without him, there wouldn't be the Green Show.
Yeah, well, Grafton there wouldn't be.
But also, without Milligan, there wouldn't.
Be. Yeah, of course there wouldn't
be. And when you look at his stuff
he did for Derek Roy, you know, there's one script in piece
work. It's not very good.
The bits he put in there, you know, you could see it's not
very good, but there's signs there of, of something different
coming on. And, you know, it's fascinating
way to watch Milligan grow as a writer through from 1951 up to
up till he died, really. Yeah, yeah.
OK. And we don't, we don't need to
discuss Spike particularly. We'll be talking about every.
Week. I do wonder whether he would
have without graft and supporting you.
I wonder if he'd he'd have just stayed in music.
I wonder if he'd have gone on to be a comedy writer.
Interesting question. Yeah.
Or music with comedy. Music with comedy is more
likely, yes. Yeah, yes, like a like an early
incarnation of Billy Connolly. I.
Was thinking more the Bonzo Dog band but yes.
Mind you then Billy Connolly did become a full time comedian,
didn't he? So.
He did, yeah. Yeah, that's true.
And and Spider Man had gone the same way, Yeah.
OK, OK, so, so, so he's your number 2.
So my number 2 is Peter Sellers. So hold off, hold off saying
where he figures in your list. But I had to think, OK, so the
three of, well, the three principal goons, what's the
hierarchy? What's the, how do you rank them
in terms of importance? And importance is such a
abstract term anyway. But I think there is an argument
to be made that Harry Secombe should be #2 but I think Peter
Sellers has the edge if only just because of the characters
that he created or Co created if you like voiced and just his
overall weight, literally and metaphorically his overall
weight in terms of the the goon shows makeup.
What do you say say about him? And would you rank Harry higher
than him? I've cheated and I've ranked
them both the same. Oh, OK, I I can't really
separate them. But The thing is, there are two
or three group goon shows with two without Harry and one
without Peter. None of them quite work without
those there. I mean, in in who is Pink Oboe
takes four people to replace Peter Sellers.
That's quite something this is. Your captain Jim Greenslade
speaking here is a warning. This ship will be passing
through fish infested waters, many of them sympathetic to the
Germans, so therefore there must be no naked lights on board.
Did you hear that, missus? O'Toole.
Now put some clothes on that match.
Well, I can't. I'm.
I'm looking for me Dorothy bag. Darling.
That old bag. Well, I I must find it cocky.
You are, darling. Oh, dear, you naughty woman.
You told me it was an overcoat sewn up at the bottom.
Well, you see, we couldn't afford the fair.
Darling. You got me into your Dorothy bag
under false pretenses. You darling.
Darling, you're the darling. I'm the you are a dirty.
Guy and the same with how you seek, you know, spawn 50 LB cure
a bit flat. Yes, Dick Emery puts in a a
decent performance, but he can't he can't raise it above.
Yeah, fairly average, mediocre can.
He. Yeah, OK not to, I think didn't
Spike Milligan once described Harry Seekum as the best
straight man in the business, which is interesting comment.
I'm not sure that was much of a straight man.
Harry Seekum is. I take his point that, you know,
he's the one. Everything else bounces.
So in that sense, yes, I suppose he is, yeah.
And of course, there's the MC Reiki rising of 74, which is in
which Spike is absent. Yeah, and that doesn't really
work either. Not as well, although the the
batter pudding hurler where Spike isn't there works fine.
Do you think? I think so, yeah.
I can't. I can always, I can all I'm
distracted by, you know, it's seller's doing the voices and
I'm distracted by that. Yeah, I I get that.
But if you just sort of if you can put that to one side, it
imitates Milligan so well that for.
Me. He carries it off.
OK, well, Harry's my number three anyway.
So. So we've got Spike, Peter,
Harry. So what's next?
Who's next on your list? Well #3 for me is Larry Stevens,
especially early on, Larry Stevens was vital for Spike
Milligan. Spike and all these wonderful
gags and what have you. And it was pretty shapeless,
wasn't it? I think Dennis Maine Wilson
specifically asked for Larry Stevens says I can't make it a
tale of this. I can't.
I can't produce a show from this.
Give me someone who can, preferably Larry Stevens.
Actually it made me wonder because you listen to Barry
took, he said him and Marty Feldman when they did round the
horn. Marty was more of a sort of
crazy ideas man and and Barry took called himself the better
technician, I suppose, not put in the frame for it or to go in.
And I think it's got the same thing here.
That spiker got brilliant ideas and Larry was able to sort of
shape them, put them in, put them into some sort of order.
I kind of wonder what it's like for some of these others like
Gordon and Simpson. Yeah, but Spike was very
dismissive of Larry and called him the highest paid typist in
London. Yeah, he was dismissive of Jimmy
Grafton one time as well. He said.
He he he just hung on to him because he knew that Spike had
more talent. Spike, for all his brilliance,
is not always kind No to people who have worked with him it.
Would have been it was lovely if there if there existed some sort
of some recording of Larry. You know that as in even at a
because, because there are a few recordings or a handful of
recordings of rehearsal. Good show rehearsals will be
lovely to, to even heard Larry, you know, commenting in the
background or whatever. But he's completely silenced, of
course, because he died in 59. That's unfortunate.
I, I did ask Julie Warren if she had any of his scripts, just to
see if they varied from Milligan's at all.
You know, if you saw any of the workings, it'd be interesting to
have a look at it and compare the two Spikes scripts with
Larry's scripts and see how they made notes or what have you on
the side. But as you say, unfortunately he
is a victim of the war really, wasn't he?
He died young. So unfortunate, but I think
without Larry I, I'm not sure. Again, I suppose really one of
the things that made me do it the way I did was I think
getting the goons on the air was the hardest bit of all because
it was so different to a variety band box.
It's that man again or anything else.
But it the hardest thing was to get them on.
So those most involved with getting the Goon show started,
I've given greater weight to than those who sort of came in
later. So that's what Larry Stevens is
high with me. Oh, apparently he suggested
Peter Eaton to replace Dennis Maine Wilson, which is an
interesting thought. Isn't.
It oh, is that why is that why Peter Eaton I.
Believe so. Yeah, he suggested him so.
OK. OK.
All right. Well, my number 4 is Wallace
Greenslade, OK. And I think very highly of
Wallace Greenslade, and he is a necessary part of the Goon show
for sure. Obviously not just in his role
as announcer, but he's also really a stooge to the other 3,
isn't he? Yes, he I mean Andrew Timothy
was used, but not in the same to the same extent.
You know, he was given silly things to say fairly early on.
I think the Series 1 program for he gets to do a scrimps and
scrimps and but he was got the impression that he did very much
enjoy it was Wallace Greenslade. He think loved it.
Have you ever thought that perhaps if he wasn't so
hierarchy, John Snagg would have loved to date that part?
Oh yeah, I think he'd love to be Wallace Greenslade.
Yeah, but I think he's got John Snake's got too much bearing too
much. He's he's he's he's a bit more
top drawer than Wallace. Wallace is a kind of a slightly
bumbling, isn't he? And.
He is in this, but I don't suppose he was when he read the
news. I don't know.
You get the impression that he was.
I mean, he certainly wasn't unprofessional, but there were
it wasn't there. Didn't he get hauled over the
coals for being drunk on air once or something?
I don't know. And then again, John Snagg was
the one who said in the boat races, either Oxford or
Cambridge in front. I can't tell where she is.
They all made their errors. What's that?
Ted Lowe? That famous Ted Lowe comment.
For those in Washington, black and white, then I think is
behind the green or. Something that was that.
Something like that, Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I mean, what, what,
what a screenslate such a integral part of the show, so
much so we got we got his own episode of.
Course he did, and he was the sort of star of fanderhead
shavers. Spanish suitcase, yes.
Green sliders, yeah. And and I I my favorite Wallace
green slate bit comes after my favorite echoes and blue bottle
bit in the booty gorilla about the the rabbit and the and the
the dog. You know, I've got a Bunny
rabbit. I've got a Pussycat that bit.
And when he tries to explain it at the end.
I should have stayed at home with the fire, with ruffians.
Who's ruffians? What do you know?
You got a Pussycat. Get a head.
Got a Pussycat. Whoa, I ain't got a Pussycat.
But I I got a Bunny rabbit. I had not got a Bunny rabbit.
I got 1. You got a Bunny rabbit?
Yeah. Yeah, You got one?
Yeah. Got a Pussycat.
I never knew that. Yes, it's Russell.
Who's that? My Pussycat.
I've got a Bunny rabbit. Of you.
Yeah, I've got a pussy cat. What's his name?
Who's that? My pussy cat.
I've got a Bunny rabbit. Just in case some stupid people
didn't understand that conversation, it was briefly
that Blue Bottle had a Bunny rabbit and Echoes had a Pussycat
called. Ruffles.
I'm so sorry, I beg your pardon. Echols had the Bunny rabbit and
blue bottle the Pussycat. Not as I said before, that pussy
rabbit and the echo cat and Bunny bottle, The kiddle pot.
The Kiddle Nat Pot. I suppose the BBC do know what
they're doing. Of course they.
Do again. There are so many bits where he
sounds so serious. Yes, I must have not haven't
gotten the high but I do love. Wallace Greenslade.
OK, well so who's next on your list then?
Next to my list is Michael Benteen.
Yeah, OK. But the problem with Michael
Benteen, of course, is that very little exists.
Yeah, I'll admit to a prejudice. I mean, as a child I watched the
bumblers. As a teenager, I watched this, a
square world. As a parent, I watched Potty
Time, a big soft spot for Michael Benteen, and I suppose
the reason I put him so high is because I think a lot of the the
good ideas, not necessarily gags, but the sort of sketch
ideas in the early series came from Benteen that they so more
like him is sort of documentary style approach.
You know, Tutankhamun and the brabagun BRM the Gunetania that
they sound far more like the sort of thing he did later on in
as a square world than sort of Milligan's going off a weird
tangents and and and taking the form of genres of novels and so
on or actual novels in the case of 1984.
I guess that's why I put in there.
Did you know he was on less money than how he seek on Peter
Sellers I. Didn't know that.
Yeah, and he asked me considered as a writer, and they said no,
you don't. You're not the one with the
typewriter. Hey, that's the point.
Because because he never got, he never got credited in the
scripts as no, never as a writer, did he?
But he wrote Oh. Yeah, he obviously was part of
the creative prose, I suspect for early days.
You know, again, if you read piece work and the stuff they
just outlived, I think they all put ideas to it.
But I suspect Ben Team was a major contributor of ideas.
But I suppose one of the reason they didn't have credit as a
writer. Script by Spike Milligan and
Larry Stevens and Jimmy Grafton and Michael Ben Team.
I guess the BBC coffers wouldn't stretch that far.
Anyway, yeah, so and of course, his central character was OSRIC
Pure Heart, who was a, yes, I guess a forerunner of Ned
Seigun. Yeah, I think he morphed into
Ned Seigun slightly differently because pure heart was yeah as
absolute minded Professor wasn't even more mad Inventor or a
Seigun was mad all sorts of things, but.
Whatever. Whatever the script required to
be that week, yes. Yes, so.
Of course we do have Oh God down among the Z men.
Yes, never mind. Yeah, but because you could
argue the best person in that or best performer in that was.
Benting. Yeah, I think I'd agree.
I think in the early days I think he was the best in the
goons. He was the most formed
character. The other sort of blood, not,
well, the exception of Eccles. I think Eccles was predated the
goons. He was still there, and Derek
Warley wasn't he? But he was the most formed
character. Blood not gradually grew, all
the others gradually developed, but he was there, sort of fully
formed more or less from the start.
Yeah, I don't listen very much to, you know, there's got to be
what I think there's 3 is a three.
Three not complete ones, I think.
Not quite complete. Ones 3 from pre series 3 so
inventing still. Yeah.
Yeah, there and they're they're pretty poor, very poor quality.
Yeah, and I find them difficult to listen to and and also
they're not particularly funny. But you then you think obviously
the scripts still survive for all the early shows and you
think, you know, imagine if somebody somehow discovers
recordings that somebody made of the first 3 Series in their
entirety. And, and I think you and I may
have said this before, be careful what you wish for.
I think Ted, no, Ted Kendall said that.
I think be careful what you wish for because they might not be
very good. I suspect it wasn't as good.
I mean, it doesn't really get to a stride until towards the end
of Series 4, does it? Yeah.
Good evening. My name is John.
I wonder if kudar help me. I'm sorry.
The Barber shop is next door. No, no way.
I I just come in. Out of your advancement in the
newspaper. But the papers are really just
out. How could you have seen the
advert so soon? I have special access to the
early editions of all the papers.
I sell them. Come in.
This is my committee, gentleman.
This is the captain. Pure heart.
He's applying for the job of genius.
Oh, splendidum. Tell us your heart.
What was your last job? I was the hit gamekeeper.
To whom? Lord Chatterley.
Did he give you a reference? Nobody's wife did.
Yes. Well, now that you're here,
you'll need to start a physical check over now.
First take your boots off. Right.
Yeah, yeah, now I've put them on the table.
Why we haven't got any? So Bentin's next to my list as
well, after Wallace. So what number is that for you
then #5 #5 OK, and I've got Larry Stevens down as number
six, so we'll discuss. Larry, who's next on your list?
Well. This rounds it out nicely
because mine I've got equal the Harry sequel Peter Sellers.
So we've actually top sixes aren't that far apart, but from
Wallace Greenslade that are Jimmy Grafton.
They're sort of slightly rearranged, but I maintain
anyway after the first three I'll rearrange them at regular
intervals. You think, no, that's your
opinions change and things happen so yeah.
So you come and tell us they're. Under Larry Stevens.
Yeah, I, I think Harry Seekin and Peter Sellers would have had
a career on their own. You know, they're both forge
their own career regardless of the Golden Show.
Yeah, that you, you're right. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I've got as #7 Ray Ellington.
OK, he's lower down on mine but I I do.
I am a great fan of Rain, but do you know the first program he
gets a funny line in? The first program as opposed to
goon show episode or. First goon show episode he gets
a funny lining it's. Probably going to be because
you're asking me this. It's probably going to be
something quite late on, so something from the fifth series.
It's actually Series 1, Program 2.
Oh, really? I I research, I looked it up.
I just thought, well, when did he first?
And I looked it up and there it was in Series 1, Program 2.
He's a waiter or something. And Sikom says, can I have the
bill? Here you are, Sir.
This is Billington. Sikom says, what's epistle for?
And Ryan says read the bill and you know, right?
OK. That early on, and it's not a,
it's not a racist joke. That's.
The thing he gets a joke in series 1 programme 2.
Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. OK.
Yeah, it's quite good, isn't it? That's how much they liked him.
Spike always did say musicians appreciate the sense of him.
Jazz musicians in particular always appreciate their sense of
humour. Absolutely, Yeah.
And of course I mean quite apart from his weekly musical spot,
which some of them I enjoy, some of them I enjoy less so some of
his some of his numbers. But he had a a fairly regular
role in the show as the Red Bladder.
It'd be interesting, it'd be interesting to sort of see how
many shows he doesn't get a line in, how many shows he doesn't
actually speak in. The.
Most fascinating to do. Probably a bit dumb and boring,
but the the results would certainly be interesting so.
So that's right. So, so who's who's on your list
next? Pat Dixon, that Dixon.
OK, right. Yeah, again, it's because
getting the Goon Show started was the hardest part and he was
the one that persuaded the BBC put it on after the Sellers
Castle debacle didn't happen because they did it without,
which I think, but you. I think that's a good thing,
because I think the format had been far too restrictive for
Spike. And also to Sellers Castle, they
had other people involved with that, like Janet Brown.
Yeah, but they they've renamed it and they tatters.
Castle. Yeah, yeah.
And put it out. Yeah.
Janet Brown and Peter Butterworth.
That's right. Yes.
But they were all part of that same gang, weren't they?
Alfred Marx, Graham Stock. They're all Grafton's crowd,
weren't they? No, but of course, Pat Dickson.
So, yeah. So he's there.
He's he's a big champion. He's there very early on, but he
also of course produces them after Peter Eaton leaves.
Yes, until his untimely death. And you could argue, I mean, I
don't know, we'll come to this later perhaps, but is the 7th,
is the 6th or the 7th series the strongest series of the game
show in your opinion? Oh, I wouldn't like to say I've
got to be honest. I've got a great lightning for
the fifth series and the fourth series in a strange sort of way.
So yeah, I think anywhere from 4:00 to 7:00 is the gold.
That's that's the best of it. OK, so next to my list, quite
predictable this I suppose because you've seen the way I've
been my my rationale so far next to my list is is Max Geldre.
Oh right, yeah, I got to be honest, he doesn't make my list.
OK, nothing wrong with Max Goldray, but I think you could
replace him with another jazz musician quite happily and not
notice a difference. I mean, his acting skill is
Megan's emotions, so, yeah, he doesn't make mine.
My next man is Dennis Main Wilson.
Oh, again, because of the beginning.
Yeah. I mean, he was a regular
drafting, wasn't he? He must have watched it live
many times, isn't it? Right.
He was known as Dennis Main Drain.
He could drink a pint of Guinness.
Yeah. It's wonderful because he
brought in Larry Stevens, but I think the main reason I got him
there is because, you know, Spike through he became later,
he was very diffident, especially when he was younger,
quite shy, quite introvert. And yeah, Jimmy Grafton brought
him out a little bit. But imagine if they'd ever had a
sort of very stern, disciplined producer like Peter Eaton early
on. I wonder what effect that I've
had on Spike. Whereas Dennis May Wilson
apparently was very enthusiastic and cheerful and gung ho, I
think, I think it must have helped Spike to have someone
there like that who could sort of say well done, that is
brilliant in the early days. So again, getting the whole
thing started. I think Dennis May Wilson
deserves a high spot. He does.
And of course he does defend it from the BBC.
You know, he had the sort of he was the one holed in front of
the coals. What on earth is this rubbish?
The go on show, have you? Yeah, he's he's what he's one of
those kind of those English. I want to say what my say like
eccentric sort of enthusiasts that that this country throws up
on a regular. We used to anyway, on a regular
basis, somebody who he likes to drink, likes to smoke, but he's
so enthusiastic about everything and, and he's your best friend,
but he can also be totally unpredictable.
And, and, and of course he, we went on to, I mean, he, his
career who was interviewing, interviewed, Oh, John Lloyd, of
course. And you know, John Lloyd was
kind of one of his proteges, I suppose, in the 70s and he, he,
he, he lived a good long age. He probably died about 20 years
ago or something, but he such a legacy.
Yeah, not us. OK, so next to my list is Jimmy
Grafton. So there you go.
So he's, he's down as #9 on my list.
I'm glad that our lists are diverging or.
Diverging. I think they've converged yet.
No. OK, so who's next on yours?
What is that? Angela Morley?
OK, OK. And I just think the musical
links and the Goon show are perfect.
They're just the right side of parody.
You see what I mean? They're slightly overdone, but
not so much you think, all right, OK, we got it.
And things like the Yakubu anthem and the that that that
scene medley in Dishonoured is just brilliant, isn't it?
You know, sticks together half a dozen songs about the sea and
just make it all go into one. Lovely with a great punchline at
the end. And of course, the great Tuscan
salami scandal. The one without any music thinks
God does it suffer. Do you reckon?
I mean, I really enjoy that show.
Well, not that I don't like it, but all you've got is that sort
of crescendo of organ music. That's it.
I just wonder what Wally Stock could have done with that.
Sella's on the piano as well, haven't you?
Yes, you're doing a deliberately bad boy piano.
Yeah. Is rather lovely.
Imagine the links. You know those sort of all
you've got is that organ piece. I just think Wally stop would
have. I just smashed it.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK, so. Next to my list is Valentine
Dial. There you are, naughty little
echoes. No, Doctor Lingle Dongle getting
out of bed. Off.
I tucked you in and battered you unconscious for the night.
Gentlemen, I am the caretaker. My apologies.
You won't be disturbed further. What are you staring at me for?
What lovely teeth you have. False.
No, perfectly true. They are lovely teeth.
Why? Nothing.
Goodnight. Yeah, he doesn't make my list
either, but when he talked about the 5th goon, he was one of the
ones I thought about, I think. My objection.
No, not objection. Let me put put this, I think
Valentine Dial is great at sinister and menacing.
And the programs where you want someone sinister and menacing
such as the House of Teeth in the Canal and maybe the Spectre
Tintagel, Yeah, they're brilliant.
But what I noticed was in the Canal and House of Teeth in
particular, grip pipe thin and Moriarty disappear.
Because there's no need for. Because there's no need for that
sort of character and OR and his sidekick.
That's true. That's.
True. Yeah.
Try and imagine a canal with grip pipe.
Thin still works. Yeah, I'm just trying to think
as well. So in Robin Hood, yeah, you've
got Dennis Price and Valentine Dile.
Yeah, yeah, It's sort of. It's a Christmas special or
something, wasn't it? Yes, but he's not playing
Balazandale isn't playing the sort of main menacing character,
the main baddie in it, is he? No, I suppose not.
He is he Prince John Sheriff, Not Sheriff.
Sheriff of Nottingham, then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It seems to be an effort to get absolutely everyone in that
program, isn't it? But I'd like to have Dennis
Price more, to be quite honest. That would have been an
interesting choice for good and sure, but there we are.
Well, we covered Robin Hood and the E Bandit of Sherwood Forest
about six months ago, and I don't think Dennis Price quite
hit the mark in in Robin Hood, but perhaps it was just, I don't
know, it was just slightly, just felt slightly jarring to my ear
anyway. But but I loved Dennis Price.
Same here. I'm.
I'm biased. Yeah.
The naked truth, The fabulous kind, Hearts and coronets.
And I'm old enough to remember him as Jeeves in the TV
incarnation of PG Wodehouse History with Ian Carmichael as
well. Bertie Worcester.
That's. Right.
He was a fabulous Jeeves you can imagine.
Yes, and a bit of a bit of a, well, more than a bit of a sad
life. Really.
Yes, yes, yeah. Unfortunately.
OK, so so whose turn is it? So who's who's on yours next?
#10 #10 where? Where are you?
Oh, I'm at #10 I've just #10 was Valentine dial.
OK, I've got Peter Eaton. OK, I'm surprised he's not
higher up your list. He's he's my number 11 actually.
Closest we've come. Yeah.
Closest we're going to come either.
Yeah. What can you say about Peter
Eaton? He's the one who who took him up
to a higher level, isn't he? Yes.
He brought in the drama drama department techniques, the
microphone techniques are better sound effects library and made
him do what they were told for change.
He did. And he was quite, I mean, he'd
been what what had he been in the war?
I can't remember. But he'd been obviously an
officer and used to dressing down soldiers when needed.
So yeah, he brought that to the show.
And it says that famous story. Well, not famous story, but
there's there's there's a story that he supposedly fired Peter
Sellers in the middle of a gun show.
Recording yes, yes, the. International Christmas pudding,
I think it was. Yes, I've heard that story as
well. What was it for?
Ad libbing or drunkenness or? He, yeah, sort of ad libbing and
throwing Harry twice. Not literally throwing Harry,
but you know, yeah. I'll be difficult.
Harry could throw Peter, but I'd tell her there was a story that
Harry Seekon could pick them both up in their early days.
It's been harder in the early days because he went quite a
bit. Did Peter Sellers.
He did. He did.
Harry Seekon was very strong, wasn't he was a there are
stories of him keeping Sellers and Milligan apart when they had
a furious argument because he was so strong he could just.
Yeah, well, he's quite this. This there is, there are
photographs out there. Yeah.
In the plain rappers of him, there's there's a photo, there's
a photo session he did presumably for some some
magazine in the 50s where he was in a gymnasium and he was
wearing like this vest. He's quite muscular.
Yeah. Quite, quite beefy.
The archetypal Welsh propped forward, really.
Yeah, but Peter Eaton, it's just such a shame that there wasn't a
noticeable downturn in quality when he left because Pat Dixon
was his successor. But there's definitely a
difference between a Series 5 goon show and a Series 7 goon
show, isn't there? Yeah.
And the quality does not at this go down was depending on who's
producing. Later on, well, yeah, yeah,
Series 8 is is very patchy because they just, it's like
musical chairs with the producers.
Yes, it doesn't. And Tom?
Sloan. No.
No, not Sloan tom-tom. Tom Arnold.
No, not Tom Arnold. He's buried to wear his own bar.
Tom. Something like that come.
On Almighty Hang on, I'm going to have to find it because if I
don't, I'm going to sound. Ronald, something like that,
yeah. Tom Ronald.
Yes, I I'll pretend that we knew that.
So yeah. TomTom, Ronald.
Yeah, who? Who hated the goons?
I mean, I'd love to know who thought I got an idea.
We'll get home to produce a good show.
He hates them. Yes.
So Peter Eaton's my number 11. Yeah.
So who's next on your list? I'm down to Ray Ellington.
OK. I've got him that low.
I just think some of those are more important.
And I also wonder. I love Ray Ellington and like I
say, he's good right from the start, but I think there are
times I get the impression Spike felt the need of other
characters other than the three of them and was quite happy to
draw in Ray Ellington, Wallace Greenslade, etcetera.
He brought in George Chisholm didn't he?
Yes he did, and he tried to get Max Keld right, so I think he
always felt the need for more characters.
The main problem with the question I asked about Ray the
Ellington is if he hadn't, I'd love to program that centred on
him in like the Wallace Greenslade story.
I guess it was impossible because he had a musical
interlude to do, but it had been lovely to have one that featured
the red bladder centred on him. Well, isn't the Red Fort largely
about the red bladder? Largely, yes, but it's not the
same way as the Green Slate story is, no.
No, no, although if there was a Greenslade story version of
Ray's life, exactly. Rags to riches.
But again, you just know that it would be much of it would be
unbrocastable today. Yes, yes, it probably would be
the Max. Geldre story would be
interesting. Yes, of course he was in in the
Netherlands during the war, wasn't he?
So wasn't. Even the resistance.
Because I would have thought, yes, I mean, as Jewish, he would
have not had a good time. No, no.
OK, So my my number 12 is is Wally Start.
So there you go. We've already discussed yes.
And who rounds out your list? Wallace Greenslate.
Oh, OK, Right. Yeah, yeah.
OK, so, OK, so Ray, you, you give Ray more props than Wallace
then? Just because he's a little
longer. I guess, yeah.
Right from the start here, like I say, right from the start, he
was there. Whereas in Series 4, Wallace
Greenslade doesn't have a lot to do.
I think, you know, they're all finding their relationship, as
it were, and it takes a while for him to develop into the
Wallace Greenslade that we all know and love.
Yeah, I guess it didn't help because if you listen to them,
the latter one, that the early ones of Series 4 where Andrew
Timothy is still there, he has no funny lines at all.
It's sort of you get the feeling that there's no love lost and it
just is an announcer. Look at the last good show of
all. He's back, but he's only back
because Wallace turned up his toes.
Yeah, and he has a funny, a funny bit to say at the
beginning, and after that he's just totally straight.
Yeah. I mean, he got the job because,
again, Jimmy Grafton, he was his senior officer, wasn't he?
I. Would forgotten that.
Yeah. Right.
OK. OK.
So you've you've taken a lot more time and care, I think with
your list and you've, you've obviously weighted it towards
the the. Yeah.
The genesis of the show. And yeah, for the reasons that
I, yeah, yeah. OK.
Fair enough, but can we carry on with your list that would.
Be, yeah. I mean, mine gets progressively
stupid because I was just, I was just trying to, I was just
trying to put down as many people as I could think of that
that had some connection really. So, So my number 13 is Pat
Dixon. Oh, right, yes.
Because now, now that you've revealed your list, I'm I'm
thinking, God, mine looks so pathetic, but.
No, no, everyone's. I've told you everyone's list is
wrong. You have to accept that.
I accept that my list is wrong. It has to be because it's a list
that's going to be wrong. So it's not pathetic.
It's just, and I'll change mine now.
Now we've had a chat. I'm thinking, no, I really
should like that one higher. That one should be lower so.
OK, what number 14 on my list? Yes.
Eric Sykes. Yeah, interesting.
I I thought about him. I'll be honest, I'd thought
about more in terms of 5th goon in terms of because I don't
think he had much the influence. He just stepped in to help
didn't he? And tried to do a spike style
without quite getting there. Yeah.
And recently, which show was it? I was discussing for Org and I
was discussing for Org. I mentioned that Peter Eaton in
an interview. Although was it you that pointed
out that Peter Eaton played fast and loose with facts?
It wasn't me, but yeah, it it, it has been said.
But he he said he didn't particularly rate.
He rated Eric in general as a comedy writer, but he didn't
rate his Goon Show material particularly.
That's kind of unfair really, because he's Eric Sykes writes
as writing as Eric Sites, as you say, is brilliant.
I mean, I still think The Plank is one of the funniest films
I've seen, but you're asking Eric Sites to write the Spike
Milligan try something. That's quite a trick, isn't it?
Not to not to write it yourself, but as someone else who's
totally different. So it's a little bit unkind to
Eric, who did his best, it has to be said.
And I still, I still think tells him a martyr as well with this
or anyone you know. Yeah, because I'm sure Eric said
that Peter Sellers criticized some of his.
Scripts. But but then went on to say that
he thought that Tales of Montmartre was brilliant.
That's it. And in fact, as I recall a story
from Eric Sykes, it was, he said, right, this is going to be
the last goon so I ever write and it's going to be the best
one I've ever done. And he wrote Tales of Montmartre
and Peter. So I said that was the best goon
show. Too late, I'm out.
Don't stop, darling. Tell me all.
If I can only speak French, There, there, there.
Please don't. Don't.
Don't cry. You're making a mustache.
Old Droopy is Paul. You must speak to him.
Certainly. Hello, Paul.
I see Arsenal took another bashing.
No, Paul didn't come home to me last night.
He can't do that to a wife of mine.
He has been unfaithful to us. I'll thrash him within 100 miles
of my life. In series 5:00 to 6:00 or 7:00
shows that are pretty pretty much predominantly Eric scripts
and I'll get to the next person on my list, which is Andrew
Timothy. I guess kind of applying your
logic there, you know he was there early on and he's there
for the last Goon show. Yeah, it's a shame because I
mean, I think Program Series 1, Program 2, he's got funny
introductions of the characters and funny, you know, at the end
the show was starred. It's and they'd have funny
things to say about them. And I say by program 4 is doing
the scrimson on the scramson. And but you get the feeling that
you're not enjoying it. And when you hear the sort of
the ones that we can listen to because you can only read those
if you belong to also Preservation society and by the
Encyclopedia Britannicus, Unicus Unicus.
Sorry about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can read
them. But the ones you hear, he
doesn't have a lot to do, does he?
No, but it's still, you know, an important early figure in the
game shows history. Yes, and and it's what what's
important about for me is the way Milligan uses the announcer
who's supposed to be straight and just to announce it as
another comic character, which I think is an innovation of him.
And I like the way that, you know, he gives him because of
his character. He gives him sardonic things to
say. Cease this furious bond with me,
You know, a serious voice. You know, he uses Andrew to it's
a brilliant milligram reason that he uses what Andrew Timothy
offers him. And then when he goes, he uses
what Wallace Greenslade offers him, which is a.
Yeah, there there's a sense of because what?
What's the phrase wounded dignity about Andrew Timothy?
Yeah, I'm only doing it for the. I'm only doing it for the money.
Yeah, you think it. You know, you go home every
Sunday night having been at the recording, and he gets home and
he's kicking the cat because he's and his.
His son, James Heriot, is carrying behind the couch.
I'm not going to be an announcer, I'm going to be an
actor instead, yes. Ladies and gentlemen, we now
present the prize winning Gunitzer playing based on a true
fictitious story. Listen, then, to the man who
tried to destroy London's monuments.
OK, so next on my list is John Snag.
Yes, that's good point. Yes, I think I should have
included him because yeah, he was that he wasn't, but he kept
him going. He supported them, defended them
and took part when he could. I think that's a good, good
choice. Yeah, and he appeared 20 odd
years later on a Sex Pistols record.
Yes, that's right. I mean, for someone who sort of
sounded so authority than that, he really had got a great sense
of humour, hadn't he? And he's in, of course he's in.
He has a brief cameo in The Magic Christian.
Yeah, which which I will defend with my dying breath, even
though it is a a shambles of a film if you look at it
dispassionately. But he's he's there covering the
boat Race. Yeah.
An in joke. Yeah, OK #17 is John Browell.
Yeah, fair enough, I think. Good point.
John Browell was very, I mean, he was a, he was a, one of the
sound guys, wasn't he? First of all.
And then he was promoted to producer from Series 9 and
Series 9 is, is a marked improvement on Series 8.
And even though there there are some fairly ropey shows, we've
discussed them like Pink Oboe and 50 LB Cure and the and the
like. But there's some there's some
real classics as well, such as the the remake of Dishonoured,
Queen Anne's Reign I was Monty's treble.
I think 50 LB cure would have been a much better program had
Harry C been there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, There we are.
Even series 10, which is only 6 shows, Series 10 is quite strong
I think because you've got the Silver Dub Loons, you've got A
Christmas Carol which is brilliant I think.
Yes. And even even the Last Smoking
Sea game, which is very dear to my heart.
It's the humans become very black by I, I, I think Browl is
probably the second best producer after Peter Eaton, and
probably as a producer, probably a bit ahead of Dennis Maine
Wilson, although I'll still defend Dennis Maine Wilson as
more important. OK, yeah, yeah, OK.
And I've got next George Chisholm.
He. Doesn't have a lot to do, does
he? No, he doesn't.
But he's he's also a key member of the orchestra.
Yes. But but I, I I think of him, you
know, in terms of he always will play a a Scottish character.
I think of him from that which game show was Oh, Wings over
Dagenham, where he's he's sea goons assistant in building an
aeroplane. He he just brings something,
it's a different, it's a totally different voice.
And he he just brings us a slightly different energy.
And also I think he's in the string robberies, isn't he?
Whenever. Yeah, whenever they need a
Scottish character. Scottish character.
He comes in if Sellers is too busy doing other parts, isn't
it? Yeah, I think my trouble with
George Chisholm, I remember him with the black and white
minstrels and I can still see the striped shirt, the beret and
the little moustache playing the trombone.
So I have memories of George Chisholm later.
Yeah, I can't. I find it hard to divorce that
from George Chisholm. And.
OK, fair enough.
Well, finally on on the list, we have a female Yeah in the in the
shape of Charlotte Mitchell. It had to be heard, isn't it?
Yeah. Yeah.
It's it's sad that there. I think it's just a hangover
from the army and also the way of life that women were
something stay at home and cook with dinner, but also a
reflection of army life that women just weren't there.
You know, even in Cuba, very few women, series of very few women
there. It's just mine still stuck in
World War 2. And it was a totally male
situation, wasn't it? Yeah.
I like Charlotte Mitchell.
I thinking he banned it a show before.
She's excellent. I prefer her in Montmartre.
I like your mom Martra, as well. I have to say yes.
Yeah, and it's a shame because there was what?
What show was it from? Series 80, African incident,
which which was the Bridge on the River Kwai.
Yeah, parody. And they had some Cecile Chevro
as the female guest star in that, who doesn't have a lot to
do. But one wonders why they didn't
tap up Charlotte Mitchell to come back and do that.
Didn't the story go that she was there because Peter Sellers was
rather keen on her? Because.
By then the the fear Lauren somewhat of an e-mail not to you
Princess Harder someone invent his ardor on.
I believe Hattie Jakes was in one of the early series wasn't.
She, oh, she was in Archie and Goonland.
Was that the one she was in? I remember there were four women
or something in the in the Gucci.
Is that right? Ever.
Yes. So there's Charlotte Mitchell,
there's Cecile Chevro, there's Elizabeth Webb in Cinderella,
which was like a panto they did in Series 3, I think.
OK. And there was some, there was
someone else that we're going to come back to as well.
So I'll just stick a pin in that.
But yeah, so next on my list, and you might wonder, well, this
is that's that's a curious choice, but I've got Dick Henry.
No, I can. I can see why.
I think he was always a standing goon, wasn't it?
Especially not particularly Not especially coming in because he
stood in for Spike Milligan and him and Graham Stark
alternating. Yeah, they did.
And he was, in the case of the Lucky Knees battle or Yes.
And he was in pink Obo. Was he certainly in?
He was in Spa. Was he in pink Obo?
I don't. Think he was no, he was in
obviously the 50 LB cure like we said.
So I think there's just. £50 cure Wasn't it Kenneth's Corner?
Oh, was it Kenneth Connor? Yeah, it was.
I'll tell you, I know because I said Dick Henry, like the first
time we spoken tonight, wasn't it was Kenneth Connor.
So now you right, You put me right.
You're right, you're right, you're right, you're right,
you're right. Good God.
OK now so post Series 3 Emery's only in one show which is the
first episode of Series 8 Spawn. Gentlemen, silence.
Silence when we hear this recording of a spawn William
play the record. So that's a spot.
Now we know what we're looking for.
Action. But of course, yes, he's in the
Muckinese battle horn, which is which is the most successful?
I would say the most successful example of goon humor
transferred to the I. Agree.
But oh missus Harry Seagull, yes it does.
It does. Next, I've got Dennis Maine,
Wilson discussed. I've got Roy Spear down as well
after Dennis again, because he was the he was the producer who
gave more or less gave Peter Sellers his big break, wasn't
he? So although Sellers would have
probably made it even without his help.
One of the things, there's a lot about Peter Sellers personality
which is not very pleasant, but one thing that I really admire
him for is he was on his way up at the BBC and yet he hitched
his his wagon to the Goon Show was totally untried and could
have gone completely wrong. And yet no, these are my guys.
I want to stay with them. It's it's the thing I admire
most about Peter Sellers, I have to say about talent.
Yes, that is obvious. But you know, he actually could
have just ignored them and carried on doing what he was
doing and made a good name for himself as a comedy, as a radio
voice actor. And he said no, I'm going to
stay with the goons. Yeah, OK, so but but Roy Spear,
of course, you know, he he he stepped in and produced some
episodes of Series 8 as well. Yeah.
Next, next I've got Graham Stark.
Again mainly based on the fact like you said before he he and
Henry alternated weeks when Spike was.
Ill and he was in pinkobo wasn't.
He was in pink pinkobo as well, and he was in down among the
segment, of course, as was Andrew.
Timothy forgot to mention. Yes, playing like a spiff kind
of character. Yeah.
So after Graham Stark, I've got Kenneth Connor.
Again, I understand that. Yeah, I like Kenneth Connor.
He was a very good, another very good voice actor.
You know, that's a radio you had to be.
Peter Sellers was definitely the best.
But Kenneth Connor did a lot of voice rate.
He did a lot of work on the radio doing various voices.
He didn't just do coordinate, you know, he got a lot more to
him than that has to be said. And I think in pink oboe he's
rather good. He's all right and I I do like
him in the Carry On films, although possibly I think Carry
On Abroad is his finest moment. He's early Monsieur Alphonse,
but before he got before it got really cartoony.
I think his first appearance as Monsieur Alphonse in Lowalo is
remarkable just in terms of comic timing, and I absolutely
adore the character he played in that episode of Blackadder the
Third where he's one of the two actors advising the Prince on
how to project himself and I I absolutely he plays alongside
Hugh Paddock. Oh well, yes, again, a class
actor, yes. It's a shame he got stereotyped
with the Carry On films because he was a versatile actor.
And yeah, I can see what you've got him in as one of the people
in in the gun show because he because I thought he's very good
as so mincing. Was it something?
OK, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
And after Kenneth, on my list is Charles Hilton.
But again, was he? He was just the kind of a relief
producer for the goonship, wasn't he?
He wasn't. He he was a a good producer.
Yes. A lot of other things apart from
just comedy and so on. So a safe pair of hands I think
is the way you describe him. And then we've got I've, I've,
I've, I've put John Entropus next.
But thinking about it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say John
Entropus and Morris Wilcher equal because they both produced
or Co wrote a couple of scripts for the Goon Show.
Morris Wilcher with Larry Stevens, of course.
And and it's just on the basis that they both had involvement
in script writing duties on the Goon Show that I felt that they
should they should be included. You're still with us, isn't he,
John Entropus? John is, yes.
Now there's a guest for you. I've tried, but he's he's at
he's at an age where I think he's, he's, he said everything
there is to say about the Goons. I've got, I've got Carol Carr
down next because she was in an episode of the Goons.
I said before she was in the first goon version of Robin Hood
was in the third series. Oh.
She was in there last year, OK. And it was it was.
It was billed as a Christmas pantomime and it was a 45 minute
show and Dick Henry was in that and also Carol Carr.
And Carol Carr, of course, was the was the pretty much the one
woman who wasn't a television Topper who was in down among the
Zeppelin as well. So on that basis I include.
Her you've gone for everyone ever involved in the kids show.
Wow, we're getting to. We're getting to the end, folks.
You'll be glad to hear because I've got I've got three, I've
got 3 left. I'm going to include Poggy
Poggson, the saxophonist, because he he well, for example,
in the episode Farog, he actually gets a credit in the
script. He is in the cast list.
Farog is listed as a cast member and and Poggson plays Farog
because he plays that distinctive music in in that
show. So I I'm including him on that
very flimsy basis. OK, I'm also including Jack
Train for his for his his memorable appearance in Shifting
Sands, of course, but also he was in.
Pinko yeah, that's right. He basically replaced major
bloodmark in that, didn't he? Over.
But yeah, I like his shifting sands.
Him and blood not together, yes. It's sad they never did any more
because I thought they were wonderful.
Yeah. That was I, I.
I expect you're wondering why. You sent for me.
He just slotted in, didn't he? Perfectly, he was.
Absolutely. And final name on my list.
And it was kind of a head scratch of this because I wanted
to get to 30, you know, just for neatness.
And I suppose I could have had Dennis Price because he, you
know, he was in Robin Hood. But I've gone for Bernard Miles
because of his because of the fact that he often gets
referenced in the goons. And he was obviously in the rent
collectors, which was a brilliant episode.
And also the character, that of Swede, that Peter Sellers played
on and off, the Cornish character, he was kind of
influenced I think by. Bennett Yeah.
So stop. Country accent.
Yeah, well, I'm surprised you didn't include any of the
backroom boys, to be quite honest.
You know, some spot effects and. Yeah, well, Ron Belshier and Ian
Cook and people. Like JP Hamilton.
Yes, of course. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And apologies. Yeah, there's quite a few
others, aren't there? It's very important to the Goon
Show that you never hear about just because all they did was
sound effects and what have you. Yes, we're all agreed that's one
of the integral parts of the Goon Show.
That's what things that made it great.
So there's a list for another time.
The Backroom Boy. You've made me.
You've made me feel wretched now.
I should have. I should have said, I should
have said had his number 16 on my list.
All the, you know, all all those, all those guys, sort of.
The backroom boys, Yes. Jointly the backroom boys, I
mean. John Browell, of course, was,
but then he he. Stepped out of that and
promoted, yeah. Yeah, so that said.
So there we go. So I'm really surprised, Roger,
because I thought we'd whip through that list and we'd be
done with that. But we've actually been talking
for for for about an hour and 15 minutes.
Has any of the the names on my list my extended list?
Would you substitute any of those for your top?
I'd certainly add one of the two, and that's for certain.
As I said, as you were going along, yeah, I should have had
him on my list. Yeah, I should have had him on.
But like I say, that's the point with list, isn't it?
They're wrong. Yes, they're wrong.
So there you go. Anything else you want to add to
the general conversation? No, I think we've discussed the
important people in the gun show pretty much.
I'd be interested to see if anyone comes up with any names
that we've left out. And there's probably an obvious
name that both you and I just haven't thought about, which is
everyone's screaming at us now, listening.
It would be like if we'd forgotten to mention Peter
Sellers or. Something we did meant just
ours, didn't we? We did, yes.
OK, Roger. Well, many, Many thanks again.
You're always, always a reliable guest to have on because you can
talk and talk and talk and talk. And you saved me having to do
it. And we'll we'll no doubt meet
again some some sunny day. I hope so.
Thank you, Tyler. I've thoroughly enjoyed it as
expected. And you put some thoughts in my
head as well, which we hadn't been there before.
So a very enjoyable and fruitful discussion.