The Macanese battlehorn was a very sad affair because this was
an idea which we had which we discussed with some film makers
who then had indeed on our instruction thinking it was
already booked a studio to make this in.
At that time, Spike, who had only completed about 10 pages of
the script, had a mental relapse.
And mainly, truthfully, this was brought on by he was blown up
during the war, you see. And every time, every now and
again, it comes back under strain.
And he had one of these then, you see.
And so therefore there was nobody to work on the script.
And Larry Stevens, who is now dead, worked on it with us, but
we got nothing except 10 pages. That's why the film opens well
and sort of fritters out to nothing.
Wasting no time, Superintendent Quilt and Sergeant Brown began A
thorough search for clothes. Look, Sir, an impression of a
heel. Very clever, Brown, but we
haven't time for your impressions now.
Thank you, Sir. The.
Hey Chris, what connects neo noir sci-fi cult classic Blade
Runner with ambient techno twosome Orbital and Here Come
the Double Deckers, everyone's favorite TV show about some
young scallywags and a knackered old London bus?
I don't know, Taylor, what connects all those things with
the with the double deckers and that.
The case of the Mercanese battle horn, which is useful because
that's what we're here to talk about today.
That's what we were going to talk about.
What are the chances? The 1956 short film featuring
Peter Sellers, Spike Milligan and Mr. Dick Emery.
So shall I unpick that conundrum?
So yeah. Please do Yeah, I'm I'm a
fascinated with the double deckers, but.
Well, Co Co producer Michael Deeley, He produced Blade Runner
and the Italian Job and The Deer Hunter.
So he had quite a that. Was these covered the
waterfront? Quite a career after this film.
This short film now Orbital. How the Dickens can Orbital have
some connection with Macanese Battlehorn?
How could How could Orbital possibly have a connection to
the Macanese battlehorn Tyler avoid all.
Did you did you notice on the credits when you were watching
case of the Mcanese battle horn? Who was responsible for the
music? No, tell me.
It was Edwin Astley. And who's that?
Oh come on, you for the shadowy cabal of TV cream, You should
know Edwin Astley. He he he composed the theme for
the St. and Randall and Hopkirk deceased.
Oh. Yes, of course in a a that that
mad film with a like an alien who arrives and goes to the pub,
a devil girl from ours. Oh, right, OK.
He also did the theme to civilization.
Is there a theme to civilization?
Well, he was. I should say I've watched
Civilization a lot. Right.
It's a sort of a Prozac effect that I get from it.
So I watch Points of Tension and it it's it never occurred to me
that it had its own music. Well, maybe he did.
Maybe it was like incidental music or whatever.
I'm not sure but it's like Other Jimmy that.
Does that mean there's a soundtrack album somewhere with
tracks called Things like Kenneth Creeps across the room
looking sniffy in brackets 1 Reprise.
They say Edwin Ashley, by the way, his son-in-law was Pete
Townsend. Oh God, I thought.
I was desperately hoping you were going to save Rick Ashley.
All right. His son-in-law was was Pete
Townsend. I shouldn't make any clips about
that. But because Edwin Ashley
composed the theme to The Saint, the TV Right program when
Orbital repurposed that tune for the for the Val Kilmer film, I
think in 1997, Yep, it went back into the charts.
Yeah. Yeah.
Orbital, of course, the the Doctor Who thing as well.
Yes, lots of props from friends from the wing that the the the
clip of the start was from Tomb of the Cybermen.
All right, OK. What was the last thing?
Oh, double. Here come the double deckers,
which I've never seen. I've never seen.
Is it? Is it any cop?
No, I, I, I don't really remember having watched it, to
be honest. It's, it's, I remember having
watched a lot of clips. She was talking about the double
deckers and the theme song, obviously.
But Linda Smith, do you remember Linda Smith?
Yes, indeed, yes. Lovely Linda Smith much missed.
She used to. She used to.
She used to go on about the double Deckers a lot on panel
shows, but Michael Deeley's Co producer on Muckney's Battle
Horn, Harry Booth he created Here Come the Double Deckers in
1971. Really.
Oh, I hope he retired, wealthy man.
He did not have quite as successful a career as Michael
Deeley, though. No, not quite, no.
It's funny though, isn't it? The the how these people crop up
and back, I suppose when there was an industry where there were
lots of opportunities to nip backwards and forwards.
Yeah, so we're talking about the the case of the Buckadees battle
horn. And you'd seen this before, of
course, but not for. A Oh, not for a long, not for a
long time. The last time I I saw it was
about 30 odd years ago. Should have cropped up on like
BBC Two or something. It's it would sometimes appear
way back in sort of the 80s, you know, that sort of, I don't
know, if you recall, they used to be sort of Friday afternoon
lately 5:00 when they used to put on like George Formby films
and yeah, and things like that. And it would appear, you know,
and occasionally down among the Z men, God helpers would appear
in some summer, summer mornings. And it was always part of that
melee of those kind of films like, you know, the Plank or
Simon Simon or whoever. Yeah, I, I, I've got a feeling I
first saw I'm, I didn't check. I should have done it.
I think it you remember that seller's best season on Channel
4 in about 9192. Best sellers, yeah.
Best sellers or sellers, whatever it was.
What? Was best sellers.
Are you sure? I used to think that, well,
that's the joke. I know, I know, I know.
But I thought it was like, it's kind of anyway, I'm sure that
they that that was one of the things they showed during that
season and I think that's when I first saw it.
Yeah, well, that was that season was was when I saw a lot of the
of the sailors films that you know, that I'd never I'd never
experienced before. I don't think it was the first
time I saw Heavens Above, but it was the first time I saw things
like of the Creek and and the lake.
Two way stretch. Two way stretch, two complete.
I think it was the first time I saw two complete.
Yeah, only two complete, yeah. Only two complete so because a
member of my Zeitling being being one of the interviewees in
the sort of a little intro things that they did and they
documented me to go along with it do.
You remember yet to see her bum in that film, Do you remember
that? No.
From from a distance in a mirror, so it's you have to
squint to see it, but you do see her bare backside, which was
scandalous in 1962. Well, I will little bit, but at
the time Maze Ettling was the sort of the old women and the
witches. The witches, Yeah.
Yeah, that's right. Which is great in that as well.
Yeah, it was just funny to see us.
It's a bit like Sylvia Sims we went from, you know, a gorgeous
export to yes to Queen Mum basically, but like Kathy Burke
playing the Queen Mum on Psycho Bitches.
OK, so this is a short film featuring the goons.
Or does it? No, it doesn't know because
Harry's not in it. And and even that you know, down
along the Z men. I suppose it's probably the
actual Goon film because also Benton's in it, and also.
Yeah, but I think, and we're going to talk about this, but I,
I. Said Muckin.
His battle horns actually got some laughs in it.
It has got some laughs. I think it's the the most, it's
not a high bar. I think it's the most successful
quote Goon film if if you're going to call it a goon film,
which I think we have to because there's some Goon show
characters in it. Are you Jay Smith?
He's not Jay Smith Brown. He's not Jay Smith Brown.
That's not Brown. That's not Brown.
Where were you on the night of the Frozen team Pictures?
I will get the pictures. So the Adventures of Robin Hood,
Chris, OK, well I want to go back to 1955.
September 1955 The Adventures of Robin Hood begins.
Yes, let's go back, Let's go back.
Let's go back Who? Who composed the theme Train do
you think for the adventures of Oh my God?
Is this a quiz? Yeah.
Tell me. Edwin Astley, of course it is.
Yes. So he's involved with this, with
this new extravaganza on commercial television.
OK. Yeah.
It begins. It begins in September 55.
It's got a load of American writers, you know, blacklisted
American. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, that was the thing about the about the Robin Hood
division. Robin Hood was, it was one of
the, well, we, you know, ATV and whatever they were, they were
quite happy to employ blacklisted writers.
Yeah, absolutely. And and who?
Who then imbued the scripts with not so subtle stories of unfair
persecution? Yeah, so Harry Booth and Michael
Deeley were were both working as well on The Adventures of Robin
Hood. Right.
And they wanted to make something that they could sell
to the Americans. Right.
OK. And Michael Deeley was a big fan
of the Goon Show and he had this idea of putting together ATV
series with the Goons. OK.
And these would be, you know, 2425 minutes in length because
obviously if they're selling it to the Americans, they'd need
room for commercials. So Michael Deeley, he said, he
said that we're, we're the only people with enough faith in the
visual appeal of the goons to risk making it.
Even Peter Sellers was sceptical, right.
So yeah, it was, I say it was, it was the the the case of the
Mucky Knees battle horn was envisaged as just being the
first of of this television series.
Yeah. So, so it basically.
So effectively they were viewing it as like a pilot.
Almost. Basically, yeah.
Wow, I wonder who they thought would watch it in America.
Like Steve Ireland and that's about it.
Well, because there's there's a couple of goon show characters
in Battlehorn and I'm I'm thinking it probably if there
was a series, then obviously the other characters would be
introduced as well along the way.
So what they did it was they were kind of they were kind of
moonlight. Harry Booth and Michael Deeley
were kind of moonlighting making this series or making this, this
pilot, if you want to call it that.
With the blessing, I suppose of the Robin Hood producer who was
a lady called Hannah Weinstein, who was who was quite happy for
them to do this. And they used a lot of the of
the crew from Robin Hood to film Battle Horn, they wrote.
That would explain why it looks better than don't.
The one was Edmund. They roped in Edwin Astley, as I
say, and one of the guys who was, I think he was an editor on
Robin Hood called Joe Sterling or Joseph Sterling.
Yeah, the editor's sort of almost the most interesting
person involved in the production, I think.
Well, he he comes on board to as director of Battle Horn.
They got together a budget, scraped together 4 1/2 grand OK,
which is about 100 grand in today's.
Money. It's about two of sailors cars,
2 cars and a camera. Yeah, and and the director, Joe
Sterling, he he put in £1500 himself.
Oh God, I hope you won. Yeah, Sellers was paid £900.
Yikes. History does not relate how much
Spike Milligan was paid. Something tells me all that
much, although it may not have been that much different because
I guarantee you would have heard about it.
Oh, that's true. And and it was filmed at Merton
Park Studios. The the famous studio over the
star. Were you aware much of or at all
of Merton Park Studios? OK, well.
You couldn't move for God. Well, I, I only knew them as as
as I only knew it as the studio that produced this film, this
short film, right. And then I mentioned to Andrew
Pixley, friend of the show, that we were going to be recording
Muckney's battle horn. And he said, oh, I love that.
He said, if it had become a series, I wonder if the Merchant
Park crew would have realized that they were being sent up.
And I went, what do you mean? And he said, he said Merchant
Park Studios made dual purpose crime features which were used
as support items in British cinemas and for for television
use in the US. So they had form for sending
sort of low budget crime fodder. If you like, cross the border
right that the mests begin to clear now, and why that's why
let's do the form that it did. So the most well known product,
if you like, that came out of Merton Park Studios was Scotland
Yard, hosted by Edgar Lust Garden.
Oh yeah, and, and he said. So Battlehorn is effectively a
spoof of these sorts of dual purpose.
Right, right. Popcorns.
Right, Yeah. What were the exams going to
bring up about? It is that that's clear.
I mean, I didn't realise it was a spoof obviously on what Melton
Parkins is a splendidly and joke, a superlative and joke.
But it's but you when you watch it, it's like when you start
with it, it's clearly a pastiche of, you know, the Arsenal
stadium mystery or something, you know, and all these sort of,
you know, dial, you know, any film that involves people flown
in White Hole 1212. Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely.
They got the script together. I'll come come to that in a
minute. They began shooting this the end
of October 1955. It took five days to shoot.
Took five days. What did you do for the other 3?
The thing is right, Peter Sellers.
Well, according to Roger Lewis, I won't hear a word against that
man according. To Roger Lewis.
According to Roger Lewis, Peter Sellers had said that Spike had
had a mental episode during filming I.
Find that very hard to believe. Did he just find out how much
sellers was getting paid? Possibly.
And, and apparently Sellers was not impressed and blamed that
for some of what he perceived as failings in the film.
OK. And years and years and years
later, Michael Deeley was asked about this and he denied it
completely. He said.
He said he was there every day. It was only a five day shoot.
How could he have been, you know, not there?
And he said if seller said that, then it was totally made-up.
Inconceivable. Imagine beer sellers blaming the
failure of a project on somebody else.
Yes, very Trumpian in that way. So if.
It was if it was Trump and he'd go and bomb Gainsborough studio.
Are you the buddy now? Are you?
Oh, no. I'm Superintendent Quilt of
Scotland Guard. Delighted to meet you.
My name's Nadia. I'm a curator here.
How do you do? How do you do?
Oh, my God. Oh, God.
Hello. Hello.
I thought we just met. So we've got paper sellers,
we've got Spike Milligan. Yep.
Why haven't we got Harry? Michael Deeley was asked at the
time. Because Picture Goer magazine
were allowed to take some photographs on set during the
filming and interview the stars. You know, and I think the
reporter asked Michael Deeley why Harry Secam wasn't in it,
and he said he said he's not necessary to the film.
I do not think that it would affect its popularity.
Oh, so he said no. Wow, now he was.
Busy getting £200 a week and pick a delay here.
Right. Well, can you remember who Harry
Secom's agent was at the time off the top of your head?
Harry Secom's agent then? Oh God, it would have been
probably Leslie Tate. Jimmy Grafton, of course.
Suddenly, of course, it would all have been Major Grafton
would have been. Yeah, you've been.
I'm surprised. The film in the upstairs attic.
Well, I think I've got Jimmy Grafton was asked about at the
time was asked about why Harry's not in this.
Right, right. And he got a bit chippy, he
said. It has never been suggested that
Harry should be in this film. Even if it had, I'm not sure he
would have done it. The goons originated on radio
and I feel that they are 4 dimensional, not restricted by
time or space. It's difficult to see how they
could be filmed successfully. Even if this film is a success,
Harry will not be in the TV series.
He has a future in TV and films, but it is as a separate
individual and in his own right, not as a goon.
And in brackets. And if he's not getting more
than £900 for it, you can fuck off.
Yes, I think it's probably the unspoken.
Yeah, yes. Imagine, I mean, of the of the
three of them, Seeker was the one I would have thought at
night in 1956, who would be who would have been genuinely like
really busy during the week. Yeah, yeah.
He'd have been all over the place, given up a week to, to
film that for, for the, you know, and you'd probably booked
two year in advance and all that sort of thing.
Well, he was working six days a week, in fact, seven days a
week, and sometimes because he. Yeah, I've been there, been
there on the Humber, Bradford, Monday to Friday.
Yeah, and she was. At the Croydon Empire, then at
the, then at the the Paris cinema or whatever on the in
Camden on the on the Sunday. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Back home after that, you know. Go ahead and nip back to the
Mumbles. Late dinner Sunday evening and
then back, you know, back up Monday morning.
I mean, and you've got to find out and he's got a lot of eating
as well. Why would you want to?
Why would you want to to interrupt all that just so that
you can make for yourselves look.
Good. But see, there's all that.
There's all that. Tension.
Tension amongst the team. I'm reading that that that
Grafton was maybe influencing Seekum's decision a bit there.
Oh, I'm sure, yeah. Absolutely, and it might go some
way towards explaining why Harry wasn't in the Fred shows a few
months later. Because this this goes out
January. It's released January 1956, so
it's 70 years old this year. Yeah, no, absolutely.
But it's quite, in a way, it's quite a cute move really,
because it's fighting to be part of the team on radio.
But the decision that clearly had been made by the Major that
no, no, Hardy when he's on television is going to be his
own man because that's how he's going to survive.
That's how he's going to build this thing, which clearly
worked. Quite.
A huge move by the by the major, I would suggest.
I've just found a a quote here from Milligan.
I'm not sure where I picked this up from, but it wasn't scribbled
down on my notes. Is that like he the BBC?
He said it's a question of agents.
This is what Spike said outside our goon world where each of us
making our own show business way for goon humour does not rely on
any individual. So it's it's the fact he said
it's a question of agents. I wonder if that's a dig it at
Grafton. Maybe.
So Sellers had recommended to Deeley, Michael Deeley, that
Larry Stevens would write the script.
Sure. Which Larry did, and Deeley was
delighted with it, largely, and although he and Harry Booth
added a bit and messed it up with it a bit, I believe it's
also rumoured that Larry makes an uncredited appearance in the
film. You know that bit where you've
got London at night, fog bound, and you've got a man and a woman
embracing in the fog and a policeman asks them for
directions? He plays the wall.
The rumour is that Larry is the the man.
Oh, that's. Fun.
I'd like to think it. Let's just let's just go with
that. With nightfall, the weather took
a turn for the worst. But even in the darkest,
buggiest street, London's indomitable police searched on,
stopping late wayfarers and ruthlessly questioning them.
Hey, hey, you 2? Yes.
Can you tell me the way back to the police station just over
there? Thank you, darling.
How romantic we must be near the river.
So that's good. So if if that is the case, then
you've got Sellers Milligan and Larry Stevens, but no Harry, no
Harry. But we do have Dick Emery.
And. And you and I have both spoken
to. Dixon, Nick.
Yeah. Yeah.
What cut is it that long ago? Yeah.
Wonderful. Yeah.
What a great guy. What a fun chart that was.
It was great. And as I was recounted to
moments ago, I found myself watching instead of watching
what was supposed. So it'd be the university again.
Shall I read what I meant to read?
No, I'm just read the looney. No, I, I I watched the the many
faces of the Camry and because this is gets a little, you know,
it's sort of part of that early days sequence, you know, with
like Michael Bentine and square world and all that sort of
thing, all sort of thing. And Oh well, well, well, what a
fun thing it is just to watch Dick Emery stuff again whenever
you get the chance. It's great.
What tonic? We covered.
Oh you are awful. Yeah, I know.
I love that film. You know, I was a bit sniffy
about it the first, I think the first time I saw it because I, I
wasn't really in a tune. Because one of the few one of
the few TV scheduling facts that I keep close to my heart is it
was made to be shown on the night of the Hungerford
massacre. Oh God, really?
Not that the Hungerford massacre was in the schedules, but but
that particular night it was shown because the film that was
supposed to be on was Nevada Smith, which is like a shoot
them up cowboy, you know, like waste them.
And they pulled that presumably because it's about shooting a
lot of people and they put on you, you are awful, which is
about killing a lot of people, blowing a blow up people
actually in some urban streets and.
Violating women. Which is the first time I saw
it. There was a bit foxed by it.
I came years later. I came to absolutely adore it.
There's so much great stuff in it.
Let's see where he he actually he ruins a woman's wedding day
by cutting up the back of her dress.
That's the answer. Which that's the happiest meant
to be the happiest day of your life.
As the rich fuck them. The the, the there's the I love,
but there's so many. It's the little moments in it
that are great. Like, you know, like when people
are failing into the tent because it's a society thing.
Yes. And they're going Tattler, Yeah,
you know, And then the next one comes and says, you know, you
know, the lead or whatever. And then he and then he walks
in, walks campus. He just holds up a like a
parking second. Someone says exchange your mark.
Exchange your mark, yeah. My favorite little bit is when
he goes to get the ACT, he goes to get the body he thinks he's
getting. Rodney Fraser's body and dress
is completely unnecessarily as a posh woman in the first Yes.
And when he parks the van, somebody drives too close to him
and he's got his all the outfit on and he says why?
I've come back all day. Why don't you?
Very Danny LaRue, that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the traffic warden, Lashley, comes up to him and she's he
doesn't. Says some of them want nothing,
don't they? I'm allowed 20 minutes from
building. That's a good that.
Makes me laugh. That's a great scene because
he's the funeral director is Brian Alton, Neil's dad from the
Young Ones? Yeah, no, absolutely.
Yeah, he's great in that as well.
That lousy council job how to be charging your rent.
This is always sorry I was going to be scuba diving.
It's been a wonderful season for Scubas.
So yeah, it's and actually when I watched that again, not we got
awful, but I I I had forgotten how early that kind of appears
in it because he's almost like the second season or something
when. He's he's nodule the nodule the
the. Like the curator or.
Something curator? Yes.
He's perfect in this, I think.
I think this is perfect casting because he he, he, he doesn't
really, OK. He he was a a honorary goon
because he he appeared in, Yeah, a number of shows during the
third series when Spike was ill. And again, he was in the first
episode of series 8 when Harry was ill.
And he doesn't really fit. I don't feel in in that show
anyway. No, I don't think he quite works
as not Neddy. No.
It seems a bit weird to be better just not to have Eddie.
The thing is though, this is a a bullet dodged.
In series 3 he would alternate Dick Emery every every other
week with Graham Stark and and thank God that it wasn't Graham
Stark as the as the the third build in this or you'd.
Have been there somewhere, probably inside the horn.
Do you know for symmetry, it should have been Tony Hancock
standing in for Harry, shouldn't it?
Oh, yeah, no, that would have been a great.
Yeah, yeah. But no, Emery, I was thinking
about this because he can play so many characters as you've, as
we've just discussed, whereas Harry was very limited in his in
his characters. Yeah, he just did.
He just played himself. Yeah, but that's not an issue on
the radio because the other two can slip in and out of of other
voices on radio. Well, it's a benefit on radio
because it anchors the action. Yes, you must have a fixed point
for everybody to revolve around, otherwise you just got lost.
So it's complicated enough. Yeah, and but in this film,
Emery is playing 3 or 4 very distinct characters.
Yeah. It's it's not like if it was
Harry, it would be Harry wearing a different wig.
Yeah, or whatever, but I had to make a joke of him being still
Harry. Yeah, you know, the the bit
where he, the, the little interlude halfway through where
you're introduced to Maurice, Maurice Punk.
I am the best in London. You wouldn't know that was Dick
Emery. He's got no false nose.
I know it's such a it's such a cliche to say all sailors
disappeared into his, into his characters.
There's no real sailors, but Emily does it absolutely just as
well. He somehow manages to almost
physically change, although it not, I mean, I'm not saying that
he was quite the same level. So because I don't think that's
true. But you know, he wasn't nothing.
He was great. He was great at it.
So he's not Jill the curator. He's also the old the old man
who gets clubbed on the head. Yeah, who's sort of basically a
sort of lamp Wick. Lamp Wick stroke William make
Cobblers. Yeah, and it's, and it's exactly
the same lines from a goon show that.
Where he's. Being walloped on the head,
yeah. You know, yeah, yeah.
This is Mr. Crimp for Jennifer, Sir.
Mr. Crimp, what do you like to tell us your story?
Yeah, sure. Well, I was proceeding in an
orderly manner towards the main gate last night in order to lock
up, when suddenly somebody jumps out and wallops me on the head.
Yes, Sir, Wallop, wallop, wallop on the head.
I turn sound and wallop, wallop, wallop again.
Hell no, it goes and wallop, wallop, wallop on the head
again. Then just as I'm trying to get
up. Wallop, wallop, wallop on your
head. Yes, Sir.
Wallop, wallop, wallop. Tell me, Mr. Crimp, did you
notice anything peculiar about these men?
Yeah, sure. What?
I kept on walloping behind me. Yeah.
You mentioned the the director, I had said about the editor.
I got a wee bit confused because the director was an editor
effectively. Yes.
That's that. That was kind of.
Joe Joe Sterling. Yeah, he.
Was the guy. And he was an editor on, like,
proper Things. You know, I love Taylor.
Yeah. And obviously he did a Square
World with Banting, so that's right.
And the milieu, Oh, he did a series called Mr. Pastries Pet
Shop, which actually just makes me angry thinking about it, that
prick. But yeah, you know, I mean, he
was, he was clearly, you know, a professional man.
A useful pair of hands. Yeah.
So he's a perfect, you know, like that it's clear that all
the people involved in the technical sense are all
professional. I would say that probably what
you may call Journeyman. Yeah, yeah.
And, and but having him as the director, I think it's
interesting, but especially what you see about it.
You know, possibly the first part you see of a series because
it's short, like a television show.
There's nothing cinematic about it.
Oh, no, it's it's effect. You know, you can know that.
You said that. That's why I thought it makes it
explains because I thought when I was watching that again, I
don't really. I'm not one of these stun yachts
who like reads film jars and things and thinks you're not
sure about the cosmic quality of it.
But the it's it's, you know, most of the wide shots and very
televisual. And I thought, well, I wonder,
you know, wonder why that is. But that explains it because it
was ATV show basically. Yeah, yeah.
He wasn't Joe Sterling, Joseph Sterling.
He was not impressed by Sellers and Milligan, apparently because
he because they improvised quite a bit.
Well, that's what you see about the script.
I mean, there's no obviously Larry Stevens and million work
together and all that, but it's really obvious.
That's a lot of it is Milligan. Oh yeah.
Like right from the start, you know, the, you know, there's
depression of a heel and all that sort.
Of stuff. The with the car pulls up.
And silently, he's going. You know, like you're supposed
to stop. That and then he opens the boat
and lets Milligan out. Otherwise, Milligan out, he's
probably had been there since the night before.
Probably his own car. Graham starts in the glove box,
but the. Milligan's the boat with a bit
of chalk. Yeah, he's in there with the
chalk. But the other thing that that
strikes you, I think from this from the start, it wouldn't have
been apparent at the time. Of course is is kind of
hopefully formed. Milligan is you know, from from
how he was from that point on. He's acting like Milligan from
the start where Sailors doesn't quite you know, he he's he's
trying to be the character. I think it comes across that
he's is somehow a little bit less comfortable, whereas
Milligan is like straight and looking statues in the face with
his hat over his eyes and things and he's just Milligan.
And the whole thing with the magnifying glass that he does.
Oh, yeah, yeah. And actually, the bet that makes
me laugh the most, I don't know why.
At the end, whether in the club, sort of, and they start the
swordfight. Sort of, yeah.
When when Milligan jumps in, you hear him shout Excalibur.
I don't know why that makes me laugh so much, but I mean,
everybody gets their everybody gets their chance to do their to
do their thing. Obviously Sellers gets his
Gervais fruit. The assistant commissioner.
Oh, I don't know, though. It sort of reminds me of the,
you know, that I can't remember what it's called, you know, the
decadence ball and Futurama that just lies back and it's
constantly being fed grapes. Well, it's it's Dick.
It's Dick Dick. It's it's grip pipe thin.
The voice, largely. But yeah.
Oh yeah. It's it's, yeah, you know, these
rumours that persisted, that grip pipe thin was gay.
So it's, it's, I suppose it's putting that on screen, isn't
it? To a degree.
Yeah, well, you know, with the, with the silk.
Yeah. And the, the, the cuddled blood.
No, absolutely no. It's kind of difficult to
describe. And in a way, and for some
reason in my mind, I always twin it with the the running, Jumping
and standing still film. Yeah.
Because I think I must have seen them roughly about the same
time. It might even have been one
after the other in some sort of, you know, season or.
Season it might be the best sellers or salads best the way.
Yeah, yeah. But it was basically Alice
Cheese. Yeah.
So the the they're obviously 2 very different, obviously 2 very
different things. Yeah.
But I don't know what, I don't know what I was going.
To say, well you know what, just while you're collecting your
thoughts, I just thought of something Running, jumping in,
standing still. Film was filmed over 2 Sundays.
Yeah, Spike was there the first week and then he went off to
Australia the second week. So he was only there for one of
the two days, right. So I'm wondering whether Sellers
conflated that, you know, saying Spike.
Oh, that's the thought. Oh, we may have.
We may have uncovered something there.
Maybe, yeah, because that would explain a lot.
You can imagine in the sailors febrile imagination conflating
all these things. Oh yes, many years later.
He films like he did. What, He's talking to Barry Tuck
in 1971 or whatever? You know absolutely or he's
explaining is you know someone made you know jackpot or
something how everybody else is dead.
Oh yeah, because you remember. You remember that interview he
did for I think it was Steve Allen in?
Fact. Yeah.
He told Steve Allen that that Milligan had committed suicide.
Yeah. Well, because Steve Allen has
been too effusive for. I don't, I know he's dead.
And Steve, you can see Steve Allen going.
Oh, that's terrible. I just saw him.
The other thing, this guy's nuts.
But anyway, sorry, the point I was, I was sort of grouping for
is that all of these sort of a goon eater things, you can see
everybody involved trying to find a way to visualize what
they do. They try to be doing their
Congress. Edmond, let's not talk about
that. No, they, they do this because
somebody else, as you've explained very well has said,
oh, this is how this might work. And then, you know, the running,
jumping and standing film, it's court of everybody's.
Oh, it was just about fun and all that.
But nobody spends that amount of time doing something that's just
going to be a bit of fun. And they certainly are good
enough about it afterwards. But who was responsible for it?
But the what's interesting in hindsight is watching them
trying to develop a visual persona.
I know clearly, you know, Sellers is the one that made
the. Eventually made the biggest
impact with it in a way is ironic because Milligan would
you would think would be much more visual, whereas you would
think at the start that sellers would be much more an audio.
Performance. Absolutely.
But you. Know that's the way it goes and
Harry doesn't give a shit because he's a way opening.
Supermarkets. He said we opened a set of
varieties. He could kill it.
Well, so I said about the fact that they, the idea was that
they would make this would be a pilot for a series and they
would sell it to the American networks.
OK. Would you believe it wasn't
taken up by an American networks?
What? Who did they think was going to
buy it? Well.
I just don't get it because even if you're introducing the
characters as they go without the sort of grounding in the
goons radio show, you can imagine people saying, I don't
understand why this is supposed to be anything.
You know what I mean? So and, and as we know, it's
already difficult for for people from over here to do well over
there. Now, yeah, Michael Daly said he
wrote about this in his autobiography years later.
And he said that because of, you know, they've got American
writers working on Robin Hood, who knew, Who knew people in the
States, you know, big execs and whatnot.
Anyway, he got a load of American TV execs into a room
and he screened the the 25 minutes or so of muck and his
battle horn and everyone's was was Stony faced, shall we say?
OK, not a not a single titter rang out and so.
Anybody who didn't laugh but said that's funny.
Well, apparently he then Michael Daly said that he when he
realised that they weren't going to sell it to the Americans and
he chopped out quite a bit of material to to chop it down to
length. OK, so he he reinstated about 8
or 9 minutes of cut footage. Right.
Apparently like a director's cut.
Wow, that extension. And I wonder, I'd, I'd love to
wonder where that what happened to that?
Peter Jackson's The Case of the Muckanee's Baron.
It's 4 hours long. Yeah.
Wow. What was that?
Brown?
Brown. What is that?
It's a magnifying glasser. Control Brown.
Control a stone. Yes.
Admit it. Try to it.
What does it say? Fred Smith, Window repair, 14 A
Hurley St. Why?
That's 14 A Hurley St. to the head and no more than a stone's
throw from here. Brown will start us.
That's there. So it didn't sell and Sellers
more or less disowned the film shortly after, he said.
We had about 3 ideas in the beginning of the film which were
good, but the rest was made-up as we went along.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, I actually think.
I think it works for the length of time that it takes.
It does, I think. It holds you.
I think it's good jokes. I think it, you know, the only
thing is it's got a bit I I'm a terrible person for I think the
ending is a bit much. I don't think I like.
I would have preferred to pretend.
When you say the ending, you mean the busker right at the
end? Or do you mean the?
Yeah, yeah. No, no, I just think it just
sort of, it doesn't come to your conclusion.
It needs to, you know, like I needed to finish on a better
joke. Not the horn, but you know.
But you know. I don't remember, I don't
remember ever watching it back in the day and thinking, you
know, this is bad or I think it's really entertaining.
I think the people involved that are, you know, they're being
funny. They're clearly enjoying
themselves. I thought which yeah, comes
across I I thought when I first saw it, it was, I really enjoyed
it. I remember thinking and there
were some really good gags like, you know, an impression of a
heel and oh, and the police photographers quickie straight
out of what you see a naked gun. Oh, yeah, No, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely. And the the the thing about it
is that it battles along in a surprising way because I haven't
seen down among the Z men years before.
I'm sure I saw a long time before this.
Yeah. And I think, I mean, I obviously
watched it because, you know, I was deep in my obsession of
Paul. You'd really didn't say and and
was like really surprised by how good it was.
And and I don't remember coming away from the thinking that it
was it was it was kind of bad in any in every way.
I think it looks, don't worry. I just want to say that's
without being too unkind. It kind of looks cheap and it
could have it could have benefited from see, I always say
things because benefit from a bit of direction.
And then like, you know, a friend Craig would say no, no,
it's editing. But one with the other.
It would have benefited from better production because it's
very, as you said, as you said, because for television it's very
flat and wide and it's quite contained.
It's not very dynamic as. As no film daughters no, but
like it's it's it's a pet project from the crew of of a
television show. But it's, but that's, but I
think that's, I think actually in a way, now you think of it,
that may actually work a wee bit against it.
Because when they were making a sincere effort to make something
to sell, it probably would have been more fun if it were just a
completely pet project. Do you know what I mean?
If I had been a completely anarchic, filmed on their own
spare time, you know, carry on nonsense rather than, you know,
somebody saying no, no, we need to edit this.
We need to make sure we can show America.
We interrupt our story to bring you a word from Mr. Maurice
Punk. My name is Maurice Punk and I
live in a little log cabin in Piccadilly.
Last night I left a burning cigarette by my bedside and the
old place was burnt down and the night before last my fire
insurance run out and we did not get a penny.
My hell, we did laugh when we heard about it.
Mr. Park has nothing to do with our story before.
You'd like to see what a real idiot look like?
I want to talk about few of the other people that we see.
There's there's no names in this film apart from Sellers,
Milligan and and Amory. Yeah, there's a couple of
interesting minor characters in this film.
There's the there's the ancient caretaker we see right at the
beginning. Indeed.
Yes. The actor was called Gordon
Fillott. He started acting in 1897.
I don't think he's still with us.
He was. He was probably best known,
certainly then. Probably Doctors he was.
He was probably best known then for playing one of the elderly
schoolmasters in Wacko. Oh fantastic, I love Jimmy
Edwards. Dear.
Yeah, I really, really always loved Jimmy Edwards and I, I
don't know, I mean, almost everything that the sort of, you
know, personal outlook could ever is pretty awful to me.
You know, the sort of standing as a Tory candidate and all
that. Something, although it was, it
was way before it was all like Macmillan and all that.
But I don't know, I just thought he's one of those people that
just makes me laugh. I just think he's funny.
I've not really seen much Jimmy Edwards from.
I tell you, I tell you what is great.
It's on YouTube is the the sort of late period.
See the television series of Glums.
Oh yeah. With Ian Lavender and Patricia
Break. Know that That's brilliant.
I mean, it's really funny. Wasn't.
Wasn't that pardon Bruce's big night?
Well, it was, but then they made a series over.
Right, OK. They were, they were like, you
know, Prince's big night. They were.
Or maybe it was because you forget how bloody long what
precious big night was. In any case, what I'm sure it
was a set called, you know, like and and the radio glums, you
know, with the bill care and June Whitfield and over is is
really funny, the original iteration of it.
But the ACT. But that series is is is is
great. And I've always wanted to see,
you know, like sometimes that when especially when they, well,
they don't do films programmes about Jimmy Edwards, but you
know, like when you do things about Eric Sykes, they always
have those clips of big bad mouse.
Yeah. Yes.
I've, I've desperately, I've always wanted to see what that,
you know, is there a full recording of that that somebody
has? I'm desperate to see that.
I did a bit of digging around about that a couple of years ago
and got nowhere with it. Yeah, I mean, I've asked around,
I've never gotten, and I would dearly love to see that.
Yeah. Yes, there's a there's a really
fun episode of Parkinson where Jimmy Edwards and Eric 6 and I
think they actually, I don't I think it was live, you know, and
it's like they appear having just finished their a
performance of big bad boys and Jimmy Edwards is hammered, which
is which is always fun to watch. But anyway, so sorry other
people who are other people who appear.
Yeah, so we got the old Gordon there and we got terminally one
of the one of the policemen, you know, the police dispatcher who
sets these cars off. They'll all end up crashing,
which is a bit a benting gag, by the way.
Oh. It's so obviously a benting.
Yeah, that's an actor called Wally Thomas and I, I looked at
him. He played, he had a significant
role in The Singing Detective as, as Granddad Baxter.
I don't remember him, but apparently.
A long time since I've watched this.
He was also he was one of the pirates Wally Thomas in the
Crimson Permanent Assurance. Of course he was.
That's where I recognized the sort of we skinny one.
Well, I've not seen it for years.
Yeah, he. Watched it.
Yeah, because, because the two, there's always a few.
There's a few of the Crimson permanent assurance packets that
you recognize. Why they've obviously been
Leslie Saroni. Yeah, yeah.
And that and I've always wondered where else I had seen
them. Ah, that's brilliant.
Yeah, yeah, I. Can notice the wee bit easier.
You're learning so much tonight, Chris.
I really am. I'm the I love the Crimson
permanent assurance I. I think is it the best bit of
that film? Oh yeah, it's the best, most
like most sustained part of the film because over there are bits
of meaning of life that I really enjoy, but then there are bets
you've kind of got. To I'll tell you what I don't
enjoy about that film. But.
Mr. Mr. Creosote. Oh, you don't.
Know I hate it actually. The thing that makes me laugh,
mostly. I think the best joke of the Mr.
Creosote sequence is when they go to the other table and John
Cleese is, and they're explaining why they need to
leave. Yeah.
And she says she's, you know what?
She says I'm having a period. And Cleese is totally baffled.
And then somebody says no, no, we're late for a train.
Ah, OK. Yes.
You don't want me. I don't want to be bleeding all
over the place. But yeah, that.
What? I had no idea the Krebs and
permanent shows existed. I saw, you know what got on
video of the meaning of life years after it came out?
Yeah. And I'm just like, what is this?
Yeah. I was like, this is great.
I just get one of the best songs in it, you know, the fun to
charter and accountants. A fantastic song.
Yeah, I'll have to rewatch it because I haven't watched that
film for a long, long time. I've watched the other two.
Well, the the the the two best ones on a regular basis, but not
that one. What's the anchor?
You break out the cuddle and you makes the tea.
Hi, Sir. I'm sold.
I'll watch it tonight. I'm going to finish this.
I mentioned Dick Emery as Maurice Punk.
Morris Punk. And he's he's introduced.
Man in London. Yeah, he's introduced by a guy
you like this bit. You like this bit, Chris.
He's introduced by a guy called Bill HEPA.
Right now, Bill HEPA was a was an actor.
He was he didn't amount to very much, certainly not on TV, but I
gather he was more for one for trading the boards.
OK, one of his most successful forays was so the Beyond the
Fringe 1965 incarnation, if you want to call it that.
So, you know, Cook and Moore and and Miller and what not, they'd
all moved on to bigger and better things, but the but the
show was still a going concern. And I looked at the cast of the
1965 Beyond the Fringe, and you got Bill HEPA, who's in the
Mckee's Belt horn. You've got Barry Stanton.
OK Neville Buswell. Does that name mean anything to
you? Oh.
God, yeah. And.
It and it should. And I and I'm.
I'm counting on you, Chris. Oh, Neville Buswell.
Right let. Me.
Just, oh, I had something. Ray Langton.
Yes. Well, bastard Ray Langton.
Ray Langton. Why did anybody fancy Ray
Langton? He was awful.
Oh, you know, I sorry to run, but oh, I was watching.
I watch a Local Coordination. Yes, and I.
Watch soccer and there's I was was a particular period of sort
of mid 74 or whatever and there's like Billy Walker, Ray
Langton, they are terrible people.
Aren't they? They're all terrible people.
Oh God, and and and and and Lynn Fairclough as well.
Well, Lynn at least sort of developed a bit.
You know, he developed on. But when, when, when there's
Lane Fairclough and Ray Langton and Pure A, there's a wee guy.
Oh, the one that tried to court Mavis?
Is it Jerry Booth? Jerry Booth put Jerry Booth have
to do all the wash to clean. They're like give him to oh, I
said sorry. Really, it rankles.
OK. Well, did you mention Mavis
there? Did Ray Langton ever tried on
with Mavis, do you know? Don't.
Think so? No, no, don't think so.
I don't think he would have been interested.
I'll tell you. I'll tell you who did and who
made-up The Who made-up the quartet of this Beyond the
Fringe 1965? Oh, go on.
Peter Baldwin. Oh, really?
Oh, wow, that's amazing. And.
When was this 65? Yeah.
Oh, fantastic. That's great.
I think did, did, did, did. So, for the uninitiated, Peter
Baldwin played Derek Wilton, didn't he?
Yeah, Peter Baldwin played Derek Wilton.
In Corrie. In Coronation Street, he was
sort of, and you know, you know, trying to get me this
interested, but wouldn't leave his mother and she was really
fed up. And then he went away, then he
came back, and then of course, they got married.
And then they were in it for years and were great, great
characters. Didn't he drive a car with a big
paper clip on the roof? Well, he worked.
He worked for a Victor Finn's paper, Victor Pendlebury, Victor
Pendlebury paper products. Yeah, he was the same.
But anyway, he was one of the casualties of Coronation
Street's new Go Ahead producer, sort of the equivalent of Marie,
including that he did on antiques.
I can't. Remember and he got he was one
of the ones that got the axe. And then Thelma Barlow said
well, if if he's going, I'm going.
And she left as well. After he had this, he was he had
a heart attack and then went to his, say, excellent shop in
Covent Garden selling toy theatre sets.
Which is still there. OK Yeah.
All right. One last person in this film I
want to mention and then I just want to talk about.
Marianne Stone. She must be in there somewhere.
Yeah, I want to talk about the film itself, but I just want to
mention Pamela Thomas, who's the token female.
He doesn't get a lot to do at all.
No, she gets perved on by sailors.
Yeah, well, apparently, according to according to Roger
Lewis. Who else?
It will be true then. Sellers made Pamela Thomas cry
on set and and she was in. You know what I said?
Picture Goer magazine was there and they were filming.
Did pig stab her in the leg or something?
So the reporter from Picture Goers interviewed her on set and
she said they've only had one girl with them before and she
lasted only one radio program she's referring to.
I think she's she must be referring to Charlotte Mitchell
who was in she was actually 2 goon shows right?
Sellers was seeing her as well. So the Ruby Coast and Pamela
Thomas said that Spike and Peter are awfully sweet to work with.
And for people in their position, they're not at all
uppity or snobbish about a newcomer.
Yeah. So she doesn't have much to do
with. I mean, she plays the daughter
of Minnie and Henry. Oh, yeah.
Unbelievably good. Night, Mother.
Isn't that the lady who questioned at the museum?
She gave up acting in the late 50s.
She was actually offered a lucrative film contract, but she
turned it down. She appeared in the first
staging of Look Back and Anger at the Royal Court.
But then she got married, had kids and she ended up becoming
mayor of Bournemouth in the 90s. What an interesting patchwork of
characters were involved in the case of the battle.
The thing is right, you said before something along the lines
of bringing the characters to life in vision or something.
Yeah, well. Yeah.
The point I was, yeah, the point I was sort of making very badly
was these were all exercises, these films of various different
generations and presentations and styles of radio people
trying to find a way to succeed on in a visual medium.
You know the the I think that's you can see the varying degrees
of success as they go. But taking that literally, I
mean, you've got 2 characters if you if you if you grant that
Jervis fruit is sort of sort of grip pipe thin, you've got three
other characters, I think. No, yeah, no, Three other
characters who are goodshow characters.
You've got Echoes, you've got Mini and you've got Henry.
Well, you've got Mini off screen.
Yes. Now, how do you think echoes and
CRAN translate to the visual medium?
Well many men works way better being a voice off.
Yes, I agree. I don't know about cran.
I don't think the makeup doesn't help, such as it is.
It doesn't suit. It's not how I visualize, and
it's hard to visualize the game characters definitively, but
it's certainly nowhere near how I visualize them.
I, I have to say, we know that you mentioned that.
I don't think I've ever actually visualized good characters.
I don't think I've ever seen them as people in my mind's eye.
You know, like maybe, maybe Blood Knock is the most sort of
realizable of them all because countries stuffed with them.
Yeah, but pith helmet. Big, big Jimmy Edwards
moustaches. Yeah, well, I always thought
that sort of, you know, you know, that sort of a Edwardian
Tweedy outfit that Macmillan would wear.
But then when you got up close, it's really threadbare.
And shiny the. Cuffs are all good.
He's got a gin bloom. Yeah, that's that's about it.
The the rest of them have have so, you know, seeing them and
seeing them in person. I mean, Milligan just proves his
hat and goes you. Know.
So, you know, the, the, the whole way, the whole effort to
sort of visualize the goons was, is sort of doomed to fail.
It is. There's no, there's just no way
to do it because even today, no matter what you tell people, the
future of radio is not television, it's radio.
Quite right? People just like listening to
things later go on with. It that podcast as well.
Exactly. People like listening to things,
yeah, just let them get on with. It yeah, I said that say Larry
Stevens was chiefly responsible for the well for the script,
although a lot of it was improvised, but but about 10
minutes of a 25 minute script is basically they've just basically
photocopied a sequence from Minnie and Henry in the goon
show. That bit with the the door
knocking, yeah, which goes on too long.
Far, far too long, I think. Which is again, is is something
that you're quite prepared to let work on a radio.
Yeah. But as you see, that doesn't
mean that it will work visually, because visually it's boring.
Yeah. But in in your mind, it's not
boring because you're providing your own pictures, as they say,
painting your own pictures. Also the the the line delivery
in the goon show is is machine gun delivery.
In this it's stilted because. Of oh, Can you imagine the
number of takes that sailors would have gone through through
all this? Carry on where, you know,
getting it wrong or giggling to cover the fact that he can he do
it and then getting annoyed with Milligan because he can just do
it. And then they're getting ratty
because they have to move the cameras or change the lights.
You do wonder sometimes how Sellers ever succeeded in films.
But that's why I thought, that's why I say I, I think that
Milligan, when you see him right from the very beginning, and
actually Dick Emery, there's so much more comfortable on screen
at this point than I think Sellers is.
Yeah. He looks like he's sort of doing
like, you know, it's following parts, he's doing the motions.
He's, you know, it's acting in a sense, whereas the rest of them
are just doing what they do. It's like Sellers.
Sellers thinks his career depends on this, whereas.
Yeah. But then I think at the time
that, as I say about like grouping for what to do in
future, sellers, I think at this point thought everything was,
you know, because he'd fucking Pagan his ear all the time tell
them that he was going to be the world's biggest star any minute.
So you know, it is everything is is desperately important, which
is then of course why it doesn't work as he then just owns it
because he doesn't want to be reminded of something that the.
Other thing is though, they make this in October, it gets
released in January 56 and then by the end of January 56, plans
are afoot to make the first, you know, the idiot weekly price
tuppence, which was the first of the, of the, of the Fred shows
really with Richard Lester and whatnot.
And there's, there's three different series in 1956 alone.
There's idiot weekly show called Fred and son of Fred, all in 56.
So, so his work, you know, his work rate is impressive, but
he's desperate. Like you say, he's just
desperate. Desperate to be.
Well, it's like something in the Parkinson interview, isn't it,
When he says about, you know, impersonating Kenneth Horne of
Russian Market, when he does that thing where he says you've
got to go ahead, go ahead. Yeah.
And he's not kidding. You see how serious he is?
Yeah. And you clearly look really
driven, you know, with this period.
Oh, absolutely. That's how you I mean.
But he had. You have to have talent to back
it out, obviously. Oh, of course, of course, but
but you, you know, but then there are plenty of people with
a lot of talent who don't make it.
Oh yes. So maybe you, maybe you've
you've just got to be like that. I know I'm not driving or have.
Talent, you know it's not. It's what stopped me from being
such a global power. I'm on table.
Mini, I can't hear what you're saying for that knocking noise.
I can't hear you. I.
Keep going back to this reporter from Picture Goer, who's on set,
OK? And I just want to mention this
a little bit because you were saying about Sellers being
difficult on set, imagining that he would be difficult.
I just sort of read you this little section from the
resultant article. They reported the scrubs being
grabbed by Sellers. And he says in his hand was a
gigantic magnifying glass. Follow that floor.
He bawled, pointing downwards dazedly.
I met glamour girl Pam Thomas, who said, I think that I'm in
this sea now, but I don't know. Nobody tells you anything.
Continuity girl Barbara Cole was trying to make herself heard.
You've changed the line in that scene, haven't you?
She asked. Milligan said yes.
Fine, fine, fine. A props man said your privilege.
They've told you there seems to be a bit of.
The wee bit of friction. Friction, Yeah.
And you're hard to believe that I got that right.
Do you know? Yeah.
It's sort of you get the feeling that, you know, there was like
this little gang, the the sort of disdain for for the the
professionals who have to work around them.
Yes. You know, and it's, it's such an
old story that you don't, you know, the high burn rules.
We'll just do it our way as if nobody's ever done that before.
It's, it's, it's interesting when you compare it with the,
you know, people talking about, for example, from the same
milieu, people who worked both actors and production or, and
say something like sites where it's so collegiate, people can
change the lanes. If it works, we'll keep it.
And if we do it, you know, and, and it does come across, it does
translate, it does come across the screen.
Yes. And that's why some programs are
a warm hug and other programs, no matter how clever they are or
how well produced they are, just don't click.
It's a sort of a bit ephemeral. Maybe that's why.
Maybe that's why the. Yeah.
You know, So, you know, the Benny Hill.
Benny Hill obviously did phenomenally well in America.
Yes, we all know this was. And as the most successful
comedian that has ever lived and Benny Hill always had that
little twinkle to the audience. It's so affecting draws and
where you see a lane and do that little little smart little smile
and you know you can't help but enjoy.
Well, if you can help us on the mountain, you can't help but
enjoy. I don't mean the dreaded, you
know, the dead hand of Dennis Clotkland years.
But prior to that, jokes over the amount I think that those
terrible Dick Henry shows, the laughter and all that shit.
But the earlier ones, you know, and again that as kind of when
we say the reciprocity between the performers and the audience,
the stage and the audience. But it's true and it does work.
And maybe that's what's maybe that's why something like mock
and his battle on didn't work in America.
What was there for the people watching?
You didn't know what who had no connection to.
It. Yeah, but there was saying that
there's a few nice visual gags I really enjoy.
Right at the beginning at the museum, before you see anyone
you see, you see the Mcanese battlehorn itself in its glass
case, and someone off lobs a brick through the glass case and
then runs up, picks up the brick, examines it, and runs
off. I know, but it's not enough
though, isn't it? You've got to, you've got to,
you've got to make that connection.
Yeah. I mean, it's silly to theorize
about comedy and what works and what doesn't work.
It's because it can be anything, because there's plenty of comedy
that that is massively popular Me but but that's fine.
What did you think of Catch Paul Burkington?
It's a great, you know, I'm actually surprised that there
weren't more people in it. Do you know what I mean?
You, you, because you've got Emily there.
But there were so many other. Yeah, people, you know, like
Jimmy Edwards, like Tony Hancock, like, you know, the
card, you know, like all these people that would have turned up
in these things a lot. Like I watched a fantastic film
that stumbled across on YouTube the other day.
It was called Ladies who Do Never heard of it.
Before yes, with Peggy Bout was it?
What a great film. Dandy Nichols was this Mary?
It's Mary and Carlin, and I can't remember Harry H Corbett.
It's just great. But you just know that they were
the cast were there because they were.
They're always there. They're all the good Tantine,
you know, like, excuse me or the, you know, the express
dating Charring Cross or something.
They're just always there. It's quite interesting that
there are so in a way that there are so few people in the battle
horn. Well that's true, but the the
they had a limited budget and sellers had most of it.
Yeah, a lot of a lot of British films get criticized.
I don't know. We, I think it's a weird
criticism. You know, eventually in the 70s,
they get criticized. Oh, one of those films that
everybody's in, except that's a bad thing, as you, as you say.
I know it's weird, doesn't it? It's the sort of thing you would
read in a Laisley Halliwell review.
Another one of those films everybody's in Charlie.
So yeah, all this. Well, maybe it's a, maybe it's
a, as you say, a budget thing. I don't think they want.
I don't think they cost much probably.
Not you can get Dennis Dennis Price for a 6 pack of Brown Ale
I. Don't think you had to.
Yeah, well, quite. Yeah.
I don't think you had to pay Raymond Huntly much to turn up
and go hurry, you know, You know, like go freeze.
That would have turned up. Said.
Nasty for 5 minutes for not much.
Korean Stark David Lodge would have done it for free, just to
bask in the radiance of. David Lodge was in Cockleshell
Heroes. Yeah, he was.
So yeah, it's, but, you know,
maybe it's one of those things, you know, actually limited time,
limited money. Other people are busy doing
panto and, you know, buckinghead.
So. You know, you just never know.
Just a few little notes I made about the film filmed in
Schizophrenoscope, the new split screen.
Nice little gag. Yep, that wouldn't.
Fly now. And of course, there's the
there's the the the erotic dance in the nightclub turns out to be
Echoes, which is lifted straight from the Goon show Dishonoured.
Oh, Beauteous 10 Fairest of affair.
Sublime siren, Exquisitive charges.
What are you doing? A little hovel like this?
I'm going to make a living. Do you know?
Wait, You're not a girl. You're a man.
I know that. But don't tell the manager.
Why not? We're engaged.
Wait. I see it all now you can't have
done. I ain't taking the fails off.
You that's one of those standard gags that existed for years.
You know, the dance, the seven fields and you take off and it's
somebody else. You know those standard, yes,
like sitcom episodes about the insurance man or overheating?
Somebody's dying when they're not really dying.
Absolutely. You know one of those things.
Oh, oh, you, you. You can inherit your great aunts
money, but you have to be married or you have to.
Yeah. Yes, any number of any number of
them that you know, you would have you watch a series of
sitcoms and one episode will have one of them.
Somebody's won the pills. They've not really won the
pills, you know? Oh, that's it.
And it's fine. It's great, absolutely great.
Love it, love it all. This film had a bit of an
afterlife as well, because in 1975 it was supporting the
cinema release of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Oh, was it? That's a, that's a choice.
Yeah, that must have been a proactive choice.
Yeah, and it's got comedy credits at the end, this film.
And of course, there's comedy credits at the beginning of Holy
Grail, isn't there? Yeah, of course you're rich,
Lyman and all that. Yeah.
I wonder if that was. Yeah.
Well, like I say, it must have been a very deliberate choice.
Oh yeah. Expose an audience to.
Yes, I've spoken to a number of people for this show that have
said that they saw it then, you know, when they went to see Holy
Grail and at the cinema that was when they first saw this.
And the other thing, when I was putting together my notes, it
just occurred to me, mucky knees is, I presume it's just, it's
mucky knees, isn't it? Mucky dirty knees, I suppose.
Did you just realise that? Yeah, I, oh, I'm embarrassed
now. Yes, yes, Tyler is mucky knees
and there's best sellers you're not going to punish.
Sellers Best. Jesus.
Roger Lewis. Roger.
Back to Roger. Back to the professor.
He and I asked him about this and he he said he had no memory
of this whatsoever. But in his book on sellers,
right, he states that at the end of Young Frankenstein, you can
see Marty Feldman as Igor on the top of the castle playing the
monkey battle horn. Yeah, and I checked.
It's not. No, it's not.
But I mean, it's it's, it's, it's as much it is basically,
that's what it is. Because why else, why else is he
playing the horn? It's repeatedly made to be the
monkey's battle horn. It's.
A little nod to sellers there by Mel Brooks, maybe?
Who knows? I think it probably Marty.
Yeah, true. Well, you know, I knew him so
well, I think probably Marty failed what we do for our last
show. Oh, I'll play the muck in these
battlehorn. Yeah, it would be neat if I
actually was the buck in these battlehorn.
But then you could imagine the audience going what's why is he
playing that giant thing, I wonder?
Where that is, if that. I'm sure it's long skipped, but.
You know, it may not be. It's probably sitting somewhere,
you know, in an archive or a lookup shed in a studio or some
transferred from, you know, one purchase of one thing I've
always wondered. We are the for example, with the
original artwork of things like, you know, a ducks and flight
around the Eiffel Tower are because there must be there
must. Be somewhere.
Yes, you know, 4 three and a half, 97 a bath.
Yeah, you know, you know that big bonfire that Sellers threw
all his stuff on in the 70s in a fit of pique when he got hit him
for a load of can imagine him angrily.
Angrily. Thrown over over his head.
Throwing throwing the bubble. Or or or as it burns, sitting
going you. Can get a chewed out of that
thing. Stillborn.
Yeah, it's, it's a bit of an oddity, you know, because it's
bound to be an oddity. But putting it in the context of
a sort of prospective series, it makes it make a lot more sense
to me now. Because otherwise it's, it
always seemed to me like a sort of very, as I say, the running
jump in silent, I know that's a bit later is like a, you know,
people are asking about. And that's fine because of the
end in itself. I'd always wondered why the
Mochinees battle horn had been made, you know, with the
mortise, for it was was it made just to be part of a sort of
program on a Saturday morning, you know.
But now I know. Now we know.
Now the world knows.
And I wonder, I couldn't find out whether it was going to be
the same characters every week solving new crimes, mysteries.
I suppose so, if it was a pastiche of Scotland Yard.
Or, but, you know, I wasn't sure if it was going to be different
characters every week. You don't know.
Oh. I see right?
You know a different like in a different crate into.
Well, you know, like, like the ripping yarns kind of.
Oh. I see.
Right, right, Right. I get you.
Yeah.
We'd have trouble sustaining
that for an American audience. Well, I mean, they're just
troubles to stay the one for an American audience, obviously.
I've I've seen it said as well that Inspector Quilt was an
early tryout for sellers of the Clouseau character.
Yeah, no, I've heard that. That's the one.
That is, I think maybe the only one thing I know about the
Muckatees Bell. Although of course there's a
character called Inspector Clouseau.
Before that it was a Scottish police inspector.
Yeah, I think he's in one of the shows, one of the good shows.
That's why it's called Clues All because it's Scottish.
All called Clues all. Can't remember what he said.
Oh. OK, I've just got Mickey knees
now you're. Just like, and it only took you
70 years. Yeah.
Not at all. Anything else before we pull
down the blind? Don't.
Think so. I mean, it's if you have, if
people haven't seen it, it's definitely worth watching.
It's more than just a curiosity. You know, down among the Z men
is a curiosity. There's one joking down among
the big, but there's Michael Benton shooting a badger.
Have your life for this. That's it.
But it's definitely worth watching.
It's fun. It's good.
It's good fun. It's a good, it's what it's a
what's seeking out and. It's over as soon as it begins,
more or less as. Well, it really is.
It doesn't. It doesn't.
It doesn't take up too much, doesn't task in relations and
it's always fun to to watch Mulligan and sailors and it's
it's particularly fun to have decamery A viewed as well.
Yes, it's always a joy to see Decam.
I would like I would like to have seen more with those 3.
Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely.
I'd love to have seen more. I mean, the past clearly
diverged not long after, which is a bit of a shame, but yeah.
So yeah, so as we say, well worth it.
It turns out it probably turns up on talking pictures every.
Oh, I'm sure it's sort of permanent rotation.
Yes, yes. And so, Chris, thank.
You in in between punctuating films with Leslie Dwyer.
What's the best Leslie Dwyer film?
I I think they're all one film that they just chopped.
It's like just one giant 300 foot across real that they just
chopped 30,000 feet off at a time.
So, Chris, thank you as always for for coming along to talk
about talk about this and possibly the next time that you
and I will speak will be to talk about Jabberwocky would be great
for for for the film club. Anyway, thank you all for
listening as always. And next week, it is a film.
I think we're going to be talking about the Peter Sellers
film, Mr. Topaz. You familiar with that, Chris?
Yeah, well, it's a long time since I've seen it, but yeah.
Very nice little gem of a film that doesn't get talked about,
but it was his one and only directorial effort.
Although if you if you don't include Fu Manchu right before
he character. So that'll be next week.
And yeah, please rate and review and all the rest of it and I
will see you then. Excalibur.