Meanwhile by Dustbin in Green Hill Street.
Moriarty this life of luxury we have never had it so good.
Another little fish there. My dear can just wait until the
Goon show opens of the bear. Put theater all those half-eaten
bags of sweets. Hello and welcome to goon pod.
The podcast which has been campaigning tirelessly to the
Panorama. Theme tune to be replaced with.
You got to go. I'll now wouldn't that be
pleasing? My guest today is an actor who
has appeared in front of audiences breathing new life
into the Goon show recreating some classic episodes.
As part of the Fred theater company and Birmingham, Comedy
Festival. He's also been involved in the
re-creation of among other things, an early Larry Stevens.
You sit comfortably Hancock. It's Richard.
Uh, sure, hello. Thank you for coming on, so it's
absolute pleasure. It's a real joy to talk about
anything to do with the goons and comedy in general naturally.
Some of the listeners would have heard your name and thought,
okay, Richard Usher actor, given to Comic performances on the
stage, must be the Richard Usher, who became famous for his
appearances at Ashley's Amphitheatre and they'll also be
thinking For a man. Born in 1785.
He sounds incredibly chipper but it take it.
I take it. You're not that Richard.
As, you know, if you mean the the classic British clown?
Well, I think one point sailed a bathtub down the Thames.
Yeah. Paul Feist, some swans or geese
or something, which is incredibly Goonies when you
think about it, okay? So just to kick off, tell me a
little bit about yourself, Richard.
Well, you've certainly Build me as an actor, I kind of Bill
myself under a balloon heading of media creative because I wear
so many different hats generally in the as a freelancer, but
professionally, I spent the best part of 20 years with, with the
BBC, working in radio, and then they paid me to leave in 2012.
So, I thought I'd be foolish to pass up this opportunity, so I
left and then I became a freelance A voice-over artist.
And that's opened up a whole world of opportunities and
different Avenues to headband and yeah, and eventually the
acting part of it, I guess started with the performance of
audiobooks, which I've always done anyway for most of my life,
but the the professional sort of paid work as an audio audiobook.
Narrator is kind of the first steps into interacting and then
I got the opportunity to Mission for the very first, first
British theatrical tour of the the Goon show and that sort of
kicked it all off. Ready.
So I have a lot to thank the gun show for.
So how did that come about one morning?
I was looking through Facebook and also having look at the the
Arts Council sort of jobs, boards and things.
I backseat as a freelancer you search for any opportunities
that might be out there and I just you know, and somebody else
brought it to my attention as well with his kind of at the
same. Same time, worlds, collided and
I spotted this advert for wanted.
Actors for gun show performance. I've just did a double-take.
Could hardly believe what I was reading and right, I'm going to
audition. So went went for it and I was
very lucky to to land an audition.
So I'm guessing you must have. Before this point, you must have
known the goons been into the goons practice doing the voices.
I think like everyone that ever listens to a given show.
There's a point at which he Doing messing around doing the
voices and things, but my first sort of encounter with the Goon
show, would probably go back to the early 80s.
I, my friend with my friend, Paul and I used to mess around
with an old tape Deck with double tape recording things on
it. So, we used to make up our own
little comedy, dramas, and our own little comedy sketches and
things like that. And that then, Progress because
I was a bit of a doctor who fan. So I was making kind of mini fan
Doctor Who episodes for tapes and things and eventually all of
this sort of coalesced and became a little comedy sketch
show that I started piecing together and then I met another
dear friend. Mark who's Mark, A or B?
Who is in the latter? Boon show performances with me
on stage and he and I kind of got to know each other at
school. It senior, And we would probably
about 13 and we just realized we both had the same mad sense of
humor. So, we started getting together
and doing the little comedy sketch, things together.
And I created something, I called the larynx show, because
in my biology lessons, I've been learning about the larynx.
I thought that's the voice. That's, that's good.
We do silly voices, brilliant. So we just made all these mad
things, and then I think, at one point, my my dad took me to the
local. Cool town library and we got out
some sound effects, LPS. And I basically started to sort
of be more creative with the way I was putting these made
sketches together and I had things like a race between.
One of my teachers at school was I think was a, he drove a Fiat.
And so I had this mad idea of having a Fiat Panda and the
Train on like pool Tower having a race Don't know where that
came from but we just sort of made these weird things up.
We did a little interview sketches, we had just spoofs of
programs and stuff like that up. To this point, had you been
influenced by any particular comedies to have come up with
this, kind of these kind of ideas are not lot.
Especially I mean, I think probably if my, my strongest
memory would probably be of Michael benteen's potty time,
that was probably the first It's of something funny that that did
mad things. I really don't recall any
listening to any radio comedy until really it was my dad, that
said, that this stuff I was editing in my bedroom.
He said, that sounds like a show I used to listen to and I was
your age. So what was that?
And he said, the Goon show, right?
So he took me to the light back to the library and he said, this
is this is the moon Shone got the lp out and it was the very
best of the goons, which I think when we Had a little
communication that coming onto this podcast.
You said, electronically processed for stereo effect.
Who is that? What a clever police station.
You'll get a bunch of withhold. Your two octave, conch punch.
Well, I unfolded Taylor was sentenced on him.
Down Jim, don't do that, you'll catch cold and it spoils it
slightly, but it was my first ever experience of of the gun
show and that was it. I was I was utterly hooked and
then my unbeknownst to me. My friend.
Mark was also a fan of the Goon show in a big way and he had I
think he had some off off-air recordings of the string
robberies, the curse of Frankenstein and Ill met by.
Moonlight. And he also had a copy of a book
called No More curried eggs for me.
Oh yeah. Yes.
Which is a was just a brilliant little collection of comedy
sketches from different areas of British comedy.
I guess it's interesting that those three shows that you
mentioned the string robberies ill met By Moonlight and cursor
Frankenstein. It's interesting that those are
some of the lesser-known gun shows.
Yeah. Because very often and also, The
lp that you first heard had two shows that aren't that.
Well known but but very often People's First exposure to the
Goon show is via, you know, the BBC really.
Yes. And so will be the dreaded
batter. Putting her lover or will be
many never was the very well-known goon shows that today
people hold up as being the best.
It's interesting that you were exposed to some lesser-known
doing shows which is still good in their own in their own way.
Yeah, Mark and I think, I'm just trying to member which episode
it was It's in no more carrying some a I think it might be
Dishonored again, if I memory serves me correctly and I think
we started messing around performing in school and we're
supposed to be doing math lessons were like what was that
they're doing silly voices and going through these sketches?
Yeah and then I think my friend another friend of our mutual
friend Andy who was into the not the nine o'clock news, the young
ones and I'm sorry I read that again.
He was a big fan of that for some reason and again there that
was Something I've never really heard before on that kind of
branched off into stuff. I think most months I was going
to the library and getting out at least one goon show LP, maybe
a Hancock maybe and I'm sorry, I'll read that again or some
whatever was available and trying to immerse myself in this
amazing genre of Comedy, you know.
Okay, so you saw this this advert for people who wanted to
perform the Goon show. Yes.
So it was email. Old Fred theater diet for guy,
called Robert F ball who sadly passed away last year, but he
was the director and creative director of Fred Theater, which
he'd helped to set up and was very much his baby.
And we communicated and he said, could you come for an audition?
So I spent a few days looking at options because they wanted you
to take an audition Piece that allowed them to see.
What you could do in terms of like changing your character
voices, and things like that. So, it was very much a sit-down
and scratch their head moment. Do you go for a goon show, which
would be the obvious choice, but I thought that might be a little
bit too much. Or do you go for Monty, Python,
say, or something from? I'm sorry, I read the getting.
Did that? The choices you have a massive
so you can pick and choose but it had To be something that
would show an ability to change character voices rapidly as
possible on onstage. I didn't really go into it with
any preconceived notions of wanting to have a particular
role. Obviously sellers was the one
that I really desperately wanted to go to use and use a huge hero
anyway but that would have been probably undone bubbling away
there. But I would have been more than
happy to be involved in any in any capacity.
So I came down to Using the comedy piece and I went for a
Michael Benton sketch because of great love.
I have the Michael benteen's writing and I chose the most
haunted house in Britain, which is an amazing piece of writing
and it's a great sketch and it's from his book best of been team.
So I thought well, that's the one and yeah, I kind of arrived
there was introduced to they freak the producer and then Man
behind the Birmingham Comedy Festival and Robert and the guy
who was running the old joint stock Theater which was where
will do to perform and I kind of got up on this little makeshift
stage and, and just went for it with this this sketch.
And I think I fluffed a couple of lines here and there.
But, yeah, I managed to get through it and I was looking at
their faces, try to judge whether I'd done any good or
not. And I went downstairs afterwards
and I had met a pal for a drink and he said, how did it go?
And I said, who, I'm not sure. I'm off the lines a little bit
here and there and and I just thought, you know, I was really
kind of panicking in my brain and then a few days later, I got
a call from Robert Robert F ball to say that they wanted to offer
me the Peter Sellers role. Yeah, what strikes me is really
interesting is that they didn't ask you to actually perform any
Gun show characters as part of the audition.
No. Now, I and, and, and strangely,
we had, I mean of all the people that were were auditioning that
day. Dave did tell me that the quite
a few people had rocked up with, you know, things on tablets and
even stuff on their phones. And I don't know whether anyone
else did goon shows there and audition Piece but I think Is
that what the guy who played Milligan in our first?
It first all rock a letter, he was very much a python fan and
fan of Comedy one that I think is the youngest of our team but
he was he'd never really heard the gun show but he was so mad
Keen to do it because of the pythian connection and just
generally their impact on British comedy.
So he was the one that knew the new that a sty, I think giving
them an opportunity to hear what you can do with material, other
than the gun shows quite a good way of judging whether you, then
they might be able to take on these roles.
But yeah, it is a bit of an oddity that you you're not
displaying necessarily how good you would be at doing Echols or
how good you would be as greenslade or what have you.
Yeah. So the benteen sketch that you
performed. Yes.
You'd read that schedule. You'd listen to it as well.
You'd read it. Listen to the because it wasn't
really the patient was part of his radio to Sketcher.
Yes, it was. Yeah, part of his, the best of
the best attempt team. Yeah.
And it was in, in the best of benteen book, which he is one of
my most treasured possessions because it has his signature in
there from, from when I met him and it just felt right.
There's the colonel character. There's obviously the sort of
General To roll, Michael benteen, interviewing Colonel,
ha plasm, and and dr. Luke.
Warm so they just lots of fantastic stuff in there.
So you've got already got a couple of good characters, but
it about, I mean the sketch, it's quite a long sketch.
Pen team was quite Adept at writing for a slow burn sketches
that allow characters to sort of breathe a bit.
So there's plenty of really good dialogue in there.
So you can almost sort of, you know, I went for a kind of
Britain is Miss throughout the world, fits Legends and myths.
Many of them based on historical fact and then you get onto
introducing the characters and you said acknowledged experts on
the Supernatural and this Colonel character which is
Joshua of almost go for a blood knock sort of sounded.
Yeah. Their paranormal and I beg, your
pardon Colonel their paranormal as in Parachute, not supernormal
as in them they're super color. Prejudice against reality.
There's just that sort of like ideas they kind of it just shows
even switch, don't evoke on dexterity.
Yes, that's exactly the phrase. Yes, funny enough.
I was watching as part of research, I've been watching
some potty times, I'm not convinced I never saw them as a
child. Does that make sense?
I'm not convinced that next. I don't recall seeing them as a
child but there's something Something when I'm watching
them, that keep making me think. I may have seen them when I was
very little. Yes.
And of its kind of squirreled away in the back of my mind
somewhere, but they're very Charming.
Yes, and very well put together and the voices, because Ben
Tate. And by the way, I love is ready
to show those to benteen. Yes, I think.
Yeah, it's a great. But his voice.
He's got a very distinctive. He's got a.
What you described is it always like a scratchy Voice or a
Wheezy voice 20? Yes.
Yeah, we see would be very good description for it.
Yeah, yeah. So each of us characters,
they've all got, they'll all have different voices but
they're all, they'll all have that common sort of slightly
Wheezy sound to them. And yes, and I was thinking
because obviously we only have very, very scant evidence of his
time in the Goon show in terms of recordings, but it makes
makes you think if he'd stayed the course?
If he, if he carried on with them makes you wonder how, you
know, what characters he might have bought in.
You know, into the show into Series 5 6 7 8 9 and how they
would have engaged with the other characters and because he
does, he often does a found the potty time, he does a character.
Which sounds suspiciously like equals.
Yes. Same in bumble bumble he's which
was his first. It was program the 50s that
because I think I'm probably one of only two is kind of a halt.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah, I think that's a fairly it.
I think they all will have done it at some point.
Point on the show's. I think they all played equals
to A let greater or lesser degree and sellers certainly.
Yeah. And seek him, though he did
quite a few stabs in some of their calls voices.
He did a very, very good Echols. The, the very first concert live
concert. I ever went to and I got ribbed
mercilessly for this. Most was most people would
probably go to a pop concert or something that I went to see
Harry seeking such as My goon Mania at the time but he did.
This whole routine is something. He says this to me about.
Yes, I met this chat and he was wearing a Cambridge tie.
I said, you're wearing a Cambridge tiniest.
Yo, all I'm worrying, I clean Bridge Dolly.
Where do you get it? I went to Cambridge.
What did you do at Cambridge? I bought a tie that's lifted
straight from the greenslade story.
Yes, but it got a huge as you'd expect huge laugh but he was It
was a really, really good Eccles and there's a an interview.
Michael benteen did on a religious program called, when I
get to heaven. And they're talking about the
goons of the birth of the goons. He's saying about the, the
Echols voice was Rose, Ralph rights voice from goofy, that's
what they all based it on. And then he does a all harder
bowl with a all power rings and he does the sort of called
version of Echols. And it's, it's pretty pretty
perfect, you know? So then I think the must have
all had a had a stab at that one or how would I bill there in
Deal all towering? Milligan often said that equals
was based on goofy, then that there's, there's a recording of
him talking about at one point saying that it was based on a
character from, I'm guessing some American radio show called
Duffy's Tavern, right? Wow, with regards to benteen,
funny enough you and I started communicating with each other
via Twitter. You very kindly sent me a
message, saying, nice things about the first couple of
podcasts. That which I greatly added.
And, but one thing that you pulled me up on it and quite
rightly, quite remember how you phrased it, but you basically
pulled me up in my auntie benteen sentiments I did kind of
dismiss him based on the own as I said before, the only evidence
we have of him on the Goon show is really a couple of very, very
poor audio. Recordings of yes, series two
shows and also obviously his role in down among the sediment.
Mmm. Yeah, she's a witch again, it's
not It's not a great film. I yeah, I'm always a little bit
disappointed with Dan among zemin other than it's a
microcosm of moments of sort of variety history.
So you've got the, the opportunity to see sellers doing
what, what might have been one of his stage acts, you've got
the opportunity to see benteen doing the chair back routine,
which is, you know, legendary in the world of Comedy.
But yeah, as a film, it doesn't really hold.
Together that well, I mean, I love benteen's.
Some venting is lines in that that I think he gets some of the
best lines. He's definitely the most
confident of of all of the actors in Dan Brown's Edmund.
I think, I think he's performance is quite polished.
He's got a genuine character. I mean, Harry C comes almost
there, but it's not Neddy segan it but it's it's a character
he's playing. But I think for just pure
Character creation, I think he's been teens.
Professor Pure Heart Is, is bang on the money and kind of ready
to go. Where's the rest of them?
All seem a little bit prototype? That makes sense.
Yeah, so you know, I said, I said some things I didn't say
anything horrible. What I think but I'm just a
little little bit dismissive about benteen and you're right,
because with only that to go on, I hold that up, as mitigation
loved us really 02 sketch show. Yes, I've seen episodes of its
Square World. Obviously, be watching potty
time. So really interesting guy.
It's policing poorly served by what's, what's left of his?
His goon show history. So getting back to the thread
theater company. So you've, yeah, you've received
this great news, that you've been given the part of sellers,
mmm. So I guess your first job then
is to is to do the voices practice, the voices, get get
the voices honed. Well, I mean I mean it was kind
of the job. I've been practicing for all my
life more or less, you know, ever since I got to know about
the Goon show that was that was kind of it.
I was always messing around doing the voices all called
versions of them. So it didn't seem too fanciful,
but it was a nice opportunity to go back to the to gun shows that
we would chosen to do, which was the Phantom head shaver of
Brighton and the canal and to Again to those and realized that
there were certain characters that sellers was performing
which I had never come into my repertoire before.
So I had a good listen to those and try to get as close as
possible to mimicking them as best I could.
So from The Phantom head shaver he'd have had guessing mrs.
Prunella, dirt That's right from the canal.
Flowered, you. I'm Daisy.
Fathers a plum. That's why we stand him.
Yes, yes. Flowered you, that was a really
difficult one pitch wise, boom manage the, I think the judge
judge nor as well in yes and fan to the Head shaver now they know
Nugent dirt. That We have three Jasmine and
29, criminals find you guilty of hiding your bald not from your
wife until after you'd marry that.
It's a long island. Thank you.
Oh my life. It's those sort of and then I
think he pops up again in briefly in the canal.
I think he's also very prominent in the case of the missing CD
plates. Yeah.
Year or so later, we started out so that the original And that
was myself, Rob Coletta, take on spikes, roll track called
Barnaby, eaten Jones who was cast as cecum and Phil hemming
who was greenslade and Valentine dial.
And also I think he, he kept for mate as well to get just proved
too difficult to switch from me to the cat.
In the way the characters are running too confusing.
I think the people in the audience.
So Phil had to go mate, which he did.
Then sadly Barnaby had to pull out of the production, so we had
Jim Rennie join us. Whose version of cecum is, it's
really, really good and it felt so, you know, it just felt
right, really? It's and when you start doing
those voices on certain in rehearsal, and on stage, it just
starts to coalesce and make sense, you know, you start with
you Henry crumbs. And yeah, he had me Minion.
And it's you know, and even mrs. Piniella dirt.
I mean we had we had to be very careful with with Ellington.
That was that was a tricky tricky proposition because it's
we didn't have the musical breaks in first.
The first iteration we had a jazz band but they weren't you
know there was informing show music.
In fact, our first review was of Jazz band rather than the show.
Particularly its they wherever they said, didn't know what the
Goon show was, and but they, they sort of gave great
positive, you know, review of this, the chat ban that was with
us who were very good. I guess playing the sellers
part, you would have quite a lot of the heavy lifting goes
without saying, but what imagine doing?
See, Kim's voice? Yes, be quite an undertaking for
anybody. Yes, to get that pitch, right?
Right? And two because this is such a
distinctive voice. Yes.
I mean, Jim Rani is pretty an actor that he's reached for that
voice. He gets it.
It's, it's not quite the bel canto tender that the Seeker
was. It's, you know, it's one of
those voices that just has such musicality about it to start
with. Yeah.
And I'm Jim manages to grab that, that musicality and grab
that sort of Of the voice and go with it and he's he was
brilliant from the outset and it just made it.
So when he you know, when he cries when he heals bluebottle
in this sort of very seek him sort of way, you know, even
though I imagine the positioning when I saw it on stage doing it,
you know, he's kind of taking a slight step back and looking off
as he says, every the line in your head, you come, he make it
in and make it didn't come easy. And it's much easier to respond
because to in my head it sounded like we were doing the show.
Yeah weird it was really strange is like a Time stand still
moment and you're there did it give you a desert?
Give you a real sort of chill. Oh yeah yeah.
Certainly the first first show weird thing was we had to wait
until the audience at all gone in taking their seats and we had
the Jazz Band going up and we're standing in the corridor.
At the door, waiting to go in and and and Phil standing there,
a slight Tremor in his hand with the script and he's kind of
composing himself these, you know, actors nerves I guess, Rob
was kind of doing some exercises and warming up, and Jim was kind
of using. So I'm going to use the nervous
energy and really using their percentage.
I'm standing there thinking I'm not feeling this, what's wrong?
And it started to panic. This lady that I wasn't feeling.
What what? These professionally trained
actors were feeling and I was thinking that my gonna blow
this, and I need, but it didn't set my nerves going.
It just, you know, and then we had a quite, again, quite a
greenish moment where one of the ushers came down the corridor.
So, could you, could you go in and take your seats?
Please? And we said sorry, and she said,
we could you go and take your seats with.
Wait, we need to get the casting and we just heard Sarah, we are
the cast and she sort of. Oh, but it.
I was laughing, we went straight on and you know soon as we heard
that then this is the BBC from from Phil.
It was we're off and running and and then C comes, you know, sort
of first lines and things like that.
They're just great. And we I mean there was a
discussion through soils as to whether we would be doing the
sound effects, as you know, spot FX like they used to do with the
sound stage and things like that or whether we would be using
sound effects played in. I think from a conversation I've
had with with Robert, the director, he'd said something
about, oh well, we'll find these sound effects from various discs
and we'll play them in and I thought to myself, that's that's
not going to work that doing shows sound effects and not the
kind of thing. You can just get off the peg.
There are very specific. Yeah, so, I was probably a
little bit naughty, but I went home that weekend and basically
set around. So sat down and sound designed
all of the effects. Um, I just went in rather
timidly on the Monday of the rails.
And said, Robert, you may not want to use these, but I thought
I'd give this a go because it would save you a bit of time and
effort. Yeah.
And that's kind of how it fell out.
So we were using some nice nicely sound design sound
effects which just sounded. I hope 30 authentic.
So that whole opening sequence with the with sort of mad
midnight, crescendos, the, the editor, And bell sound effects,
the bagpipes and all that. That create that with from sound
effects to these next impossible.
So yeah, recreating it. So again that felt kind of write
as well because you have, you know, you're there and they
audience were just yeah. Audience were with us all the
way as see, cancer manage this and used to throw them off at
the station. Well, yeah, what was the
audience? What was the sort of the age
range of the audience? What I'm guessing it was
slightly. Older.
It was, it was actually quite mixed.
I was surprised. They were quite a quite a few
young people in there. Yeah.
I think it was a general mix. I think even for the second
iteration of the show that the next to that we toured with the
audiences were of a mixed age range.
I mean people like my mum came to see the show because
obviously, because parents do that sort of thing.
Became sit with one of my first performances and she She didn't
really get the gun show me. See my, my dad and I used to sit
around laughing our heads off as Tommy Cooper soon as Tommy.
Cooper walked on screen. Yes those are your immediately.
That's it. You're laughing.
She couldn't ever see what what the funny side of that was like
why she did get the Goon show until she saw Stage production
then she got it. She said she realized it was
something that she it just clicked and she realized what it
what it was. About it that Drew people to it.
Maybe she needed the visuals. Yes.
Yeah, one of the nicest compliments.
We were, we were paid throughout the whole run and it was Dave,
the producer who was up in the sort of gallery, Manning Manning
the lights and the playing in the sound effects.
This is on a second tour and we're at The Bear Pit theater in
Stratford and this elderly gentleman who was basically
telling Anyone that would listen that it wouldn't be as anywhere
near as good as the originals that it would pale by comparison
and that he'd been to the original recordings and he'd
seen it all. And they know.
And he was just basically, you know, sat there with his arms
folded waiting and then they've said, by the end of the first
show that we'd done that. He was, he was up with the rest
of them laughing and cheering and saying yet they've got it,
they got the energy, they've got everything that that the
original shows had no thought. Wow.
That's right. Yeah that's quite some feedback.
So yeah, this guide come in ready to be a naysayer and went
away completely satisfied. I hope satisfy customer and
nicely-nicely came along with an open mind.
Yes. Yes.
There is that I think I think with the gun show you there is
a, I think there's a certain element that.
No, it shouldn't. It shouldn't be touched it.
Shouldn't it should be left left alone but it's worked so well.
In Australia mean Brian Cuts as done wonders, with the guys up
in the Blue Mountains, who do the live goon show.
I'm not sure if they're still doing it.
But they were doing it as a sort of Cabaret evening performances.
And they were getting rave reviews for their their shows
and I think you have people who had seen the originals in the
UK, I think we had at least two people that came along and saw
the show's who said yet. It's it's got what what the
original had in terms of the energy of that.
Is generated inside the theater in, which is again, it's all you
can hope for isn't it? Yes.
Did any members of the families attend like Milligan?
Family seeking family? No, nobody, no, not even.
I mean, the, the shows were given the green light by Norma
and all the fans and even she didn't come to see the shows at
all. So we know we did, we didn't
have any one, we had. John John reps from the Goon
show preservation. Society the chairman John, he
invaded our Green Room, our dressing room at the interval
might shows and he just appeared at least through the door and
just he was its chairman John and this sort of time went up
for him. But he was saying how much he
didn't enjoyed it and and how good it was that it was
breathing life back into into the show and lots of people that
came to see the Show had never seen sorry, never heard the gun
show really before, and we're intrigued to see what a live
performance would have been. Like, and it, you know, a few
people came in completely new to it and went away completely
converted. We had some nice comments in the
visitors books and things like that.
Some nice reviews along the way. So it was, yeah, I think it
would have been really, really heartwarming to a seen somebody
from Come from the family or somebody from one of the
somebody connected to one of the show's original wood would have
been nice to see now. And I think it would have been a
danger, we would have monopolized them for the entire
evening afterwards, trying to dig for information, or what was
it, like, what was it? Like, you know, because we're
all fan, so many kind of thing. So obviously you say about some
people, hadn't hadn't, even really heard the gun show, that
came to see you. What did you do with the
scripts? In terms of was there any Seeing
any significant updating of the scripts to maybe get rid of some
more, topical references, or did you with a preserved in Amber
pretty much? I think from from what I
remember Norma had dictated that that not a word could be
changed, you know, you had to stick rigidly to the what was
written on the script, which is fair enough.
And so there's a mix in the scripts of what was written and
some elements of what went out on.
On the broadcast version. So I think they've tweaked the
scripts ever. Ever very suspicious slightly,
the only time we ever deviated from the script and I'm sure
that nobody will mind is saying this was one particular night.
Somebody had come to see the show who's a friend of mine
photographer called raimondo, he entered.
He arrived late and just brush past all of the theater staff
barged in through the curtain. Right?
Literally behind us on the stage, just walked in.
Everyone's looking at him and he looked to the right way.
We're all performing. We just paused made action and
he said, oh, I'm terribly, sorry.
And he went and sat down and with, without missing a beat
Phil as our announcer, just turned around and said, it's
just a stage. He's going through ladies and
gentlemen, is just again, that's a perfect line.
Yes. And I think Milligan would have
been happy with that. So, yeah, it was, it was
tremendous, tremendous fund the, the scripts.
Yeah, we're pretty much sacrosanct, and we stuck to the
stuck to the letter of the law on that, really?
It's, and then later, your friend, Mark got involved.
Yes. Well, we'd done the first run.
So we had Birmingham the, the old John stock.
And then we moved over to Croydon, then it was a sort of a
gap of a couple of years. And then Dave got the green
light to do based, I think, based on the feedback we'd had
they realized or normal realize that, you know, it actually was
worth pursuing. So, We got permission to do a
second run and so we did the jet-propelled guided neffe,
which I was very happy with Joe. I love that love pink one and
the house of teeth. I think it was largely because
it gave fill a chance to do something.
Other than be, the announcer would be Wallace.
He could break out and be Valentine dials.
He's brought brought a big Fedora with him so they just
that was his his sort of dressing of the Set of you like
just put the foot or on became Valentine, Valentine dollars is
great. We then had a change of
personnel, so Rob wasn't available, Rob Coletta, so and
neither was Jim. So we had to find a new Seeker,
Manu, Milligan, and my friend Mark.
He did audition and got the part, which was brilliant and
the one who went after which is Milligan, would have been
ironic. If third booted me out and give
me give me Wallace and switch Market.
Sellers and filling familiar University.
It would, you know, Benny with it?
I was very happy that they're kept me on a Sellers and brought
in Stephen. Besant.
Another really good actor who significantly taller than the
cecum and lighter voice. And although he didn't match
seacams, tones his energy, And the way he performed the role
just worked, I can't explain it. It's some weird kind of alchemy,
but it worked and he was he had all of that kind of pent-up
energy that seek him. Had it worked.
Again we all had a really good chemistry when we when we met
got rehearsing. So the second tour we had we
sold out a few times at the Mac in Birmingham and the Bear Pit
theater in Stratford sonar SC stage.
Which is Any actor is quite a good good gig to see if played a
role Shakespeare company's stage meantime over at The Bear Pit
theater. The end, the very first run we
did in. We're in Croydon and somebody
somebody was out in the beer garden with with Rob and was
clearly, very drunk, but he had been, he had been in to see the
show now whether it was drunk because he'd seen the show or
from before he gone in, I don't know, but he, he was those kind
of those, this obvious kind of conversation going on.
And the body language is unmistakable that Rob was
desperately trying to get away. But this guy wouldn't let him
and, and Phil said, oh god, oh no, he's he's bring him in, he's
bringing him into the pub. And this guy came over and was
absolutely, you know, he was Starstruck by the four of us for
some odd reason. So, but rather than kind of try
and get rid of him, I engaged in conversation, which I think they
were all a little bit alarmed at most.
Did you enjoy the show then? And he said, design Choice.
I'll show you how much I enjoyed the show and he I have this
shirt and ripped it open, right? And we all went okay and he just
calmly kind of went about his business went.
No I got no time and I was imagining some Alan Partridge.
Deranged fan. Yeah.
That with a full face tattoo of the goons on his chest.
Yeah, it was we were wondering whether that was what was about
to happen, but no, there was nobody really knows.
Everybody came sort of Backstage or Nothing like apart from apart
from John Rich, the chairman of the society, which is, you know,
I think he, he did a little speech to boost try and Brewster
membership for the Goon show preservation society, which if
you are listening and you are even remotely interested in the
Goon show, definitely worth joining.
I've been a member since 1988, I think and I've never looked
back. I'm very much poorer for it.
Okay? My Subs every year, but now it's
great and wealth of material you can The newsletters and stuff
safe way. It was well supported and we did
get some some nice reviews that we the first matinee performance
of the Mac in Birmingham. Phil went down as the announcer
green savings and saying these and gentlemen.
Welcome the goons and introduced us all one by one.
We were up at the top making our entrance kind of like they used
to do on game for a laugh at you.
Don't you remember getting to? Yes.
Yeah, jump down. Staircase.
The very, very good, Milligan sketch.
I think the spoofing that in, there's a lot of it about, and
he's, and there's Peter Sellers and then this guy got up from
the audience. Who'd realized he was in the
wrong show, he'd gone to see Tosca, which is on another,
another part of the, of the same venue.
But but he startling resemblance to sellers all during classes
and everything with extraordinary.
So everyone was looking rather confusing cloudy me.
This guy got up and stood up walked out shaking his head.
No proper proper mad, mad moments, you know, did you get?
Did you go really mess up? By the way, did you do eat a lot
of cream? Cakes and bulk up to play that a
no 1955 error sellers? Well, sort of.
Yeah, I did, I had a sort of had a kind of 1950s or outfit, I put
together and, and the second run I got really ill and the first
week, just it just after rehearsals, I was really poorly
with really bad cold. So I was taking night nurse by
the bucketful to try and just be on the ball, but that was
something sellers did in the 70s.
He got, he became addicted. I think from one of his
biographers, I remember reading. He got addicted to Night Nurse
and I told this related this total to Robert musil, whole
God, you're not growing method on his own.
So yes, I think so. But what's up necessarily?
But I bought some home rims sellers style glasses and you
know kind of tried to the weird thing about the doing the stage
version of the Goon show is that you do have a because gun show
works on three levels. Anyway, already seen our sort of
on four levels because you have a group of actors playing a
group of actors, playing a group of characters who in themselves.
Are playing characters. Yes, it kind of rolls on like
that. I think around the time of the
mentioned somebody that the nearest modern equivalent, I can
think of is probably the Simpsons in the sense that that
a lot of their historical episodes.
Well, won't they go off in these weird fantasy lands?
It's again, same principle. It's a group of actors playing a
group of characters who then take on other other character
roles within the are like Simpsons, Bible stories and
things like that. Yes, yes.
I see what you mean. I understand as well that it may
be a couple of years later. You actually you appeared with
televisions like Dixon as Milligan as Milligan to his.
So Jeffrey Holland. Sorry yes.
I think that's gonna look into his sellers.
That's right. Yeah.
Well it was the during our first run, the Goon show preservation
Society put on a an event at theis Hearst at the the bell in
Spike used to be a regular for a while when he lived in entice
Hurst. And so they had this sort of
Spike connection. So they did this Spike vest and
had kids wandering around reading poetry 5 million poetry.
And following a sort of Spike Trail around the village and we
use of mounted this production of the rent collectors stroke
Queen Anne's Reign. So, but because I wanted to
play, you know, Toe toe the line slightly because of contractual
reasons. I said, I didn't really want to
be involved as a performer in the first one we did because it
would if word got back and I was doing the, you know, you just
muddies the waters slightly. So I thought I'll create some
sound effects and I'll go along and I'll help out and do it some
pieces. So that was my first
involvement. And then in 2018, they decided
to do a Centenary for Spike. In tat Tai, certainly had his
car, the mini family. Yeah, appeared outside the pub,
which drew a good crowd. So, similar sort of idea, but
this time we were in the big theater room above the pub and
we were doing this, this version of the Goon show.
So it was Jeffrey Holland. Hide a Sellers, and I was
brought in as Milligan and and also Bernhard.
But Mi Ada Mi Lowell Mi venomous.
So then they basically divvied up the Milligan.
The majority of Milligan roles would sort of divvied up amongst
the rest of the gusher preservation Society members
because it would have been unfair really for them not to
have been a part of something special like that.
So it was really nice to have this at l'ensemble things.
I was, you know, Echols and Minnie and just it just little
bits of Milligan. And then and then burned of
Miles, spend a bit of time listening back and forth to the
rent collectors and trying to get that burden miles sound to
be landed with those kind of opportunities, is always, is
such a very blessed to have been part of stuff like that.
And I saw Jeffrey Holland and the rest of the guys doing good.
And again, in 2001, I was a recording of that sort of
crowning glory to my, my goon Mania at the time because I was
busy. Came down, anyone associated
with, with the gun show. So I managed to meet, you know,
the 33 of the principals and other members of the cast along
the way. So it was so well, hang on.
See you met you met Milligan, you met seek and you're not
going to tell me you met sellers, I guess.
But you met bad teen. No, the closest I came to
sellers, was I chatted on the telephone, to Michael Sellers on
the day. Sadly that Spike passed away.
And he told me I was basically Spike had passed away that
morning, the breakfast program of the radio station.
I worked at had got Tom O'Connor on to talk about Spike because
he was a local. Hmm.
This isn't Berkshire and he was at his local departure and and
because he was a comedian, I can only write.
I said to the presenter, I worked with us, I think we can
do better than that. So, I tracked down Michael's,
Michael Sellers publisher. And asked if she still had
contact with him and she said, I think he's working as a
carpenter in in Oxford or doing something with Furniture.
I'll if his number still working, I'll give him a call
and then he rang me in and we had a really long, really lovely
chat and he he said to me that he'd spoken to think, Sean that
morning, Sean Milligan and and that his father's last words
were going going goon. Which shocked me beyond belief.
Because if that was, if that's actually true, I've no reason to
doubt the word of Michael Sellers, but if that was true, I
mean, it goes against every thing Spike ever sort of, you
know, this love-hate relationship.
He seemed to have with them with their the Ethereal the show.
I kind of expected something more along the lines of Oscar,
Wilde's Last Words either that wallpaper goes or I do ya,
expect something like that. You don't expect something.
Can we go and goon? Okay.
Yeah. It's I mean, it's very strange,
but that was the, that was a conversation I had with, with
Michael Sellers on that Sunday. So, yeah, that's the closest and
then I think I met Sarah sellers, a few years later after
showing of The optimists of nine elms.young.
Afar. I am grateful.
Hmm. Which is one of my all-time
favorite sellers movie while it's on one of my all-time
favorite films. Yeah managed to especially be
called stalking with the the way I track.
All of these various members of the Moon shows that the first
one was been team and that's in 1988.
So the start of my my goon show Journey, he was doing his
one-man show in scunthorpe. My dad drove me over to see it
and then my dad was kind of hanging around and benteen did
like to add two hours or so. Then we did like a Q&A for half
an hour and then he was out signing his books.
In the foyer. I mean he worked my credibly
hard and he sat there and he's sort of safari suit jacket and
signing things and because I was in, I still am but I was an
incredibly shy person which is one of the things that Drew me
to bend teams. He had that book the shy
Person's Guide to Life, which radically changed changed my
life. So, you know, I'd always been
incredibly grateful to him for that, but I was hanging back
because I didn't want to push forward.
In this throng of people trying to get Signed things that I had
a bag full of things to get signed, and one of them was the
copy of the best event team book and the lp to go with it.
And he looked at it and he said, ah, they finally released it,
the eye and he said the Ayatollah and I thought, what?
And I just didn't get the gag and I think it was reference to
the, to the bird on the front that he's holding in the
puppies. Yes.
That vulture looking creature. Yes.
Yeah. So I've no idea.
No idea where that reference comes from, but there we go.
But he then took my book of best have been team and opened it and
smiled at me and he wrote something in on the Flyleaf and
then very carefully closed. It very deliberately closed it.
And handed it back to me with this sort of expression of don't
read this yet. So I thought it was very
strange, though. I went then had to go and my dad
drove his off back home and on the journey, I just had to have
a look and I opened the book and he'd written to Richard.
Thank you. Best wishes, Michael benteen.
And that's something to the fact that you know he thanked me for
ya. I was very taken with that 93.
There was a goon gathering at the The Hive dimchurch steam
Railway down in Sussex and it was seeking Milligan and benteen
and the Goon show preservation Society had organized it and I
was desperate to get along there and I lived up in the hull.
Those I thought it was going to be impossible but then sort of
last minute I managed to get a ticket sorted, the lovely, Tina
Hammond that dsps. Ya got me groom sorted.
So I was staying at the same hotel as Tina and Mike Cove knee
and Who had kind of jsps stalwarts.
And I was having my breakfast next morning and trying to
figure out how that, how I was going to get from a hotel in,
right, uni Romney, without driving.
I couldn't, I was trying to work it all out.
She came over to me and said, oh, Harry's not, well, he's got
the flu, so he won't be coming. I do.
Oh, and benteen's, not very well either, so he might not be
coming another. Oh, so we're going to get Spike
and there's room in the car if you'd like to.
With us. Wow, I said, will you forgive
you? Just please sobbing shot back to
my hotel room grabbed all my my bag of Milligan memorabilia
which I desperately wanted him to sign and we got to his house
as a twin Chelsea. And there he was with sort of
like a big stain down his jumper and an Overcoat on and he's
still wearing his slippers. Can't, I might have been see.
Leo. Laura was out and said oh,
Daddy, got to put a coat, I've got my coat.
Are you going to put some shoes on the outside?
I'll put some shoes on and there was this kind of very domestic
normality. Hmm, going on.
And then Spike, you know, this this sort of got comedy.
God got in the car and I was sat behind him and I was looking
through all my things to get all great.
I'm gonna get this side that he said, well, would what have
there's not gonna be people at this station asking for My
Autograph? Why don't why do people want my
autograph on these the fat? It's a paper.
Why do they always ask for these things?
Yeah, I've often not be able to ask for autographs or sometimes
just want them because you're there.
And this checking and gave me a bit of crappy paper as a girl,
you ought to get such a. All right.
I said what I said? What what what are you going to
do with this bit of Tatu Baby? So I'll keep it or not.
That's an eye on to. Oh yes, I will, I'll treasure
this. So, I took his address.
His name is Livingston and he lived at number four, lethal
Road, Deptford. And two years later I was going
by 1:00 in the morning. I knocked on the door, he came
down as you say hello. Look, I said don't mind that.
Never mind. I said, where is it?
If he had got it. Well, that's that then.
So I kind of put these things away discreetly and then he
threw them out, threw them out the window down the motorway.
Yeah, just kind of like Bill may not in the gaffer, go throwing
things behind me. And then then he says, and I At
least I got my camera and get it.
When why, why do people always stop Minister by photographing?
The always asking for my photograph didn't really annoys
me is why didn't they just write to the BBC and as for Photograph
and make do with that and I thought oh well that's that's
that and then we got two new Romney station had been teen was
already there with his wife Clementine and they were he was
holding court and had all the Goon fans around him and he was
showing them this newspaper cutting from I think 1948 49
where he'd given, basically, he'd given all the publicity he
had from a show was doing at the Palladium over to the goons.
So, it was a picture goer thing. I think about what is a goon and
it was eyeball Alfred marks, and sellers and Milligan people like
that in the, in the article. Yeah.
And he was showing them and say he's kind of, you know,
displaying this and telling the story of how he was, really the
man that pushed the goom envelope.
Forwards because he gave this publicity that I could have used
to himself. Yeah, for everyone but Milligan
just went and sat on a bench and he just sat there sort of slumps
down looking very depressed and everyone has a say was gathered
kind of round venting. So I went tentatively over and
sat next to spike and started chatting and that was kind of
it. It was weird.
We just got chatting and then we got into the carriage of one of
Little Narrow Gauge railway trains and inadvertently, I
discovered only recently, I bought a book called life on the
streets, which is a Michael benteen book about a journalist.
Yeah, I inadvertently told a joke that Mike Benton it written
in that book in the mid 60s or something along those lines.
So I try to tell spike a joke which is because it had gone
quiet in the carriage. And my nerves got the better of
me. And I just said to him, It's
very sad about the Titanic. He said what I said, it's very
sad about the Titanic. All that, all those people that
lost their lives, what? And you can look at me this,
this curious expression. I said, well, you know, it's
very sad but everyone goes on about it but but what about the
iceberg, he said what I said, what about the iceberg?
What happened to the iceberg? Did it, did it end up in
somebody's drink, in a bar in Chicago?
What became of the iceberg and he just sort of shook his head
and I could kind of Saw this Riker incoming groceries and he
said, you were worried about the iceberg and I said, yes, and he
shouted across the karajan Michael and Ben T said yes and
he said this young man was worried about the iceberg and
then team shouted back his, the train going too fast for you and
he was just this mad gunray party that was suddenly going
on. If I'd been in your position
where Spike didn't want to sign any, anything I need to get the
photograph taken. I'm just trying to think what I
would have said to kind of break the ice.
Nope. Yeah, it's probably ask him for
his inside leg measurement or something.
I wish I had to do that so but Harry so Harry was Ill.
So Harry wasn't there? Yeah that was just it was just
Milligan and and then T and then it was a sort of everyone kind
of left. So it's just Tina.
Mike and Spike me. We drove him back to his house
and he got out of the car and he turned Around at the back door.
I said, I suppose you want to come in for a cup of tea then
and and I sort of looked and Tina's or nodded tell him.
Yes, I said well yes, please and he went old, and I won't use the
expletive, but he is the f word, and, and, and then just slam the
door disappeared inside the house.
And Tina said, that's an invitation.
So we went in and, and he basically, we As I recall on
the, what is called, the Goon blanquette, which is in the
museum of comedy in London and it was one of the fittings from
the Grafton arms when they were sort of refitting It And Spike
bought, some of the bits and pieces and had it installed in
his house. So we sat there and then we're
talking about talk about a South African wine.
Think he had quite an extensive collection of, yes, South
African wine. I then offered to go and help
make couple of teeny so I can make a couple Of T.
What do you, where do I need help?
And then I think I excused myself, news the downstairs loo
which was a weird experience because it's it was stacked high
with copies of private eye magazine and on the wall next to
the toilet was a one of those frame.
Big thick frames that these two have with a cigarette inside
that he's saved. In case of emergency break glass
and inside one of the, this Frame was a letter from Lynn
Frederick saying that she'd He'd written to her asking about some
films, he made with sellers over the years.
And she said, in this letter, I'm sorry, but just before he
died, he Peter destroyed everything to do with you spike,
and that was the letter and then he written underneath.
There's this sort of caption said, this was the heartfelt
response from Lynn Lynn Frederick was it Nee Nee Frost
Nisa and he listed although yeah, well that's more people.
She's been sort of married to and it said in case of diarrhea
break, Glass. I'll never forget that as very
funny. Yeah.
And then I remember seeing spikes house on an episode of,
in fact, getting back to frost. Remember Through the Keyhole.
Yes, yes I do. And that was spiked spikes
house, was featured in that and I remember he had a quite a
sizeable wine cellar, mrs. Thatcher doing.
In The Wine Cellar. Getting pissed off.
And it big house. Oh, it's huge in the big
swimming pool outside. Which I think used to have the
smoke coming from in the morning.
That's steam rising and people would rip roaring Fires at
spikes house, but it was just him in his heated pool, but he's
was weird. Strange.
Strange thing being in his in his Lounge.
Drinking tea him telling his about the Antiques.
He had led the gramophone records, the gramophone player
that he still had and the piano and turning about the history of
the, the marsh, the way it was drained by the Romans and
pointing out, you could see France from certain angles and
many Phineas have, right? I've got letters to write bugger
off. I met him years later again, he
wouldn't have remembered me at all, because he had think he'd
had his bypass surgery by then, and wasn't quite the Same
energetic Spike, he'd always been that, but he was and I
think medication was, was sort of leveling, a mouth of a bit.
And he was at a book signing for think, watering Heights,
according to spike Milligan and I went there and I took a fake
arm, which had got from Halloween shop or something, and
I want him to sign it and Norma was absolutely horrified.
So, no, no, no, we can't have that.
No, no, no, no. So, that went back in the bag, I
got the book sign, but he was so Kind of on edge.
And those the slightest noise, he seemed to be flinching and
then this lady was pushing a pram through the shop Waterstone
to think it wasn't in Leeds and the baby started crying.
And it got louder and louder and louder than Spike, kind of just
it had enough clearly. And he just stood up at the desk
shouted. Kill that child.
And he only got a laugh but, you know, I, so how did you beat
seeking? Well, again, it goes back to
the, the first concert I ever went to is, was the, the Harry
cecum live at some George's Hall in Bradford, booked a ticket to
go and went off to see this concert and it was him singing
telling a few anecdotes, there are some things a marching band
roll, Marines, band, playing somebody playing a postman's
horn, It was, it was very, it was, it was an interesting sort
of Music serious music, variety thing.
And I suppose one sad thing actually this year, because it's
Harry's Centenary. Yeah, isn't in September and
it's a sad thing is that. Nobody seems to be taking his
serious stuff. Seriously, if you see what I
mean, I've not really heard much about.
You know, there's not be like ass interior, he's repressing of
some of his best albums or anything like that.
I think he was the first to record.
Nessun Dorma professionally. I believe he was the first ever.
Dozens record a crime that that particular to be long before
Pavarotti. So there's none of that sort of
thing. But so to seen Harry Seeker at
his best doing that and I think few years later, I saw him in
Pickwick as well, but he was doing just doing some really
nice little bits of comedy and just being Harry and it's great
fun. And after the show, I went
backstage hoping to get in and discovered to my horror that my
dad and Stirred already beat me to it though.
They were there with Harry chattering away and then eat
then, I walked in and he was out on my own findings and I had a
copy of his his script for last gunshot halt, which I can't
remember how I got it. Probably threw the gun show
preservation Society in, it was just a photostat copy, but he
signed it. So, I've got got a copy of that
and sign my my VHS cover of the Lagoon Cheval.
And and had a brief chat really, they didn't really have time to
ask him about anything. Ghoulish, looks at its we could
we could go on talking for hours but just for we sort of wrap up.
Do you have a particular favorite?
You mentioned the optimists is pretty much your favorite
sellers film. Do you have a particular
favorite goon show? Yes.
I, I would have to say, Lucky Strikes, Britain.
I mean to pick one, you know, but that that once To Echo more
and more because it was one of the first I tried to put put
together as a college production at one point.
Never it never happened. Never came to buy a copy of the
script so it's it's it's one. I've listened to an awful lot
night. I do love that one.
Quite topical as well as in it at the moment.
Yes. Anyway so yeah.
Great. So so and what are your plans
for the next few months in terms of 2022?
What have you got planned in a couple of weeks?
If all is well, Working to plan. I fly up to Tokyo for the to
work with a friend on the Paralympics is the first thing.
But when I get back, so in September, we hopefully start
rehearsals for the resource restart of our tour of the the
Navy lock, which is another classic BBC Radio comedy.
In fact, the longest running BBC Radio, comedy ran for 18 years
and that kind of we Started with that in 2020, 19 and stalled in
2020. In fact, we came offstage in the
interval of our final show in Liverpool to find that.
The be heard the news that all the theaters have been closed in
the West End. So it was a bit, right?
It's inserting to go back on and do that.
But we had a great, great fun doing that.
So we're returning to the tour of the Navy lock and I'm playing
Dennis Price in this particular one.
So, wonderful. Dennis Price?
Yeah, fantastic actor. One of my favorite actors,
British actors here. Thank you so much for inviting
me. It's been, it's been nice to
reminisce about meeting the, the various members of the Green
Team and, and Performing those amazing shows, you know, live on
stage. Thanks again to Richard and
thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed it today.
Please rate and review on iTunes, give us lots of nice,
five star ratings, and all that sort of stuff, because it does,
as I keep banging on about, it does really help.
Help in terms of promoting the podcast.
Also, just to Echo what Richard said earlier.
About the game, show preservation Society, absolutely
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I'll be back next time with a Peter Sellers focused episode.
Thanks for listening and by