Your majesty, your humble Scottish salad.
That is correct. He is my most.
Humble Scottish serve. And who are you?
I am Queen Victoria, and I am very big in England.
We are my crostini. Queen Victoria and sorry I did
not recognize you the moment I saw you at now.
Silly-looking find Queen finest. I've ever seen in New Zealand
and the with my double mr. Brown i dub thee mister Mr.
William McGonigle it obvious, Hello and welcome to goon pot
this week. My guest and I are talking about
a film, very particular film, a film about which it is said that
truffaut upon seeing the film for the first time, broke down
and wept. No, we didn't actually I'd like
to think he did but no, he didn't.
I'm sure. Truffaut has never seen the
great McGonagall from 1974, but, you know, I was just trying to
add a little bit of color. My guest is returning.
Its field cannon from the who's he podcast, the Doctor Who
podcast and Phil came along to talk about this. 1974 film
starring Spike Milligan and his very good friend Peter Sellers.
Do I joined a select club of returning guests?
Yeah, yeah there's been there's been a handful there's been a
handful but generally speaking it's been people that have come
on and talked about an actual gun show and then the yes
they've come back as you are to talk about a film or something.
That's not a goon show. But all before we start, just
want to point out that both Phil.
And I were not, I wouldn't say we're under the weather, but we
were talking in a slightly deeper register than we know.
Yes. A couple of octaves lower than
normal always. Mm yeah.
So you know even need ladies listing, don't think that we
sound too sexy. That's right, that's right to
keep it. That's been a common problem
with my notes being too sexy. So Phil, you asked to come on
and talk about the film, The Great McGonagall.
Why this particular movie? Well, I think because I-it's a
film actually starring Spike Milligan.
I think the only other film I can think of the top of my head
that he's starred in was postman's knock.
So we he was that, you know, that the headline acts are for
the film. So I think because it's a film,
that's not really been discussing, there's not a lot of
information out there about it. If I'm if I'm not, not not that
I could find, I know we might come on to that a bit later.
But even in some of the sort of biographies about Spike
Milligan, it's almost like a footnote rather than any sort of
genuine in-depth discussion about the film, which I found
really bizarre because I think you know it's he's fit he's been
it's almost like a magic eraser passion project of his because I
think of my and I was sort of Go back to the beginning of all
wasn't introduced to the the poems of William J McGonigle.
Those there's no William James did William teammate topaz
McGonigal eject? The Jay came from actually Peter
Sellers introduced into the works of Mukwonago and bet 1956
from. Yeah.
And there was a character who would turn up the gun show
called me gonna go. Yes, lines played by sellers.
Yeah. So was it William G, McGowan
ago, poetry Jian and twit, that's it.
That's the one. Yes, yeah.
Yeah, you're right. It doesn't, it didn't get a
proper release. It was, we may as well just was
going to come to this later. Come to it now.
Yeah. It was a bit of it.
It was made as a sort of a tax write-off.
Yeah, that was. That was interesting.
It was produced by the British pornographer.
They are Grant who had never heard of before honest.
I've never heard of, but I'm not familiar with his work.
I've got to be honest. And but I was looking at some of
the titles of some of the thick. Here's an interesting thing
actually and it was I'm sorry already off from the tangent but
got one of the film's in his filmography if you want to be
with that was called Snow White and the Seven perverts.
Now I haven't had the time or the inclination to actually go
and check but I'm pretty certain that there's an episode of the
Rik Mayall sitcom, the new Statesman Mm-hmm.
Where Rik Mayall, I can't remember the circumstances but
he is, he is playing a pornographic film to a roomful
of MPS story and bees. Yeah, I'm I'm almost certain, it
was Snow White, the seven pervert.
I just assumed at the time, was a made-up title, but clearly
not. Anyway, if anyone's got there in
their collection and wants to rise, and please let me know.
But yet know, it was, it was, it was not, it wasn't intended to
be. A success that I think cell is
really wanted to be in it, and I know that at the time sellers
was really a bit of a low ebb. Career-wise his.
Yes, he was. Yeah, he hadn't really had a hit
since I guess there's a girl in my soup from what four years
before and he'd made films like the ghost in the Noonday sun and
the block house which we covered on this show.
Yes. Yes.
A few months ago which in some cases Cases weren't even
released. Okay, and this got very limited
release. But the weird thing is that
Salle's by all accounts, really wanted to do this film and was
very chilled out during the making of This film.
You know, he was a bit like as I said on the podcast, we did on
the Block house, he was very easy to work with.
He wasn't obstructive, he wasn't throwing Tantrums, he was taking
directorial advice. And he was pretty much Pleasant
and charming, and he was the same.
Apparently, on this film and Spike would be giving him would
be saying, no, don't do it like this, do it like that.
And he'd say yes. Folk.
Okay. And Joe McGraw likewise well,
and, and the thing is that, Joe McGrath famously had clashed
with sellers to the point of fisticuffs some what, six, seven
years earlier on the set of Casino Royale, that's correct.
They did. Yeah, it was a stuntman are to
split them up. Yeah.
Yeah, we're as Sellers and I don't know what he was smoking
at the time. That sellers was pretty mellow
mellow. Yeah, in the making of this.
So he was he was quite keen on this film and he was quite happy
and proud of this film as were spiked by all accounts but it
just yet kind of rows without Trace.
I went by the way, one other thing about the, the sort of the
background to this, to the production of this film, there
was a gentleman called Malcolm fancy.
I think he was a colleague of David.
Grant in some respect Malcolm fancy and he he was the son of
EJ fancy you heard of EJ fancy the name rings a bell.
You're gonna have to remind me exactly what it is.
Hey Willie Jay fancy was famous or notorious in the Say 30s 40s,
maybe not 30s 40s 50s into the 60s for really low budget.
British b-movies sort of the quota, quickies, and things like
that. Yeah, yeah.
And one of the films that he was responsible for was down among
the said, meant to, which was, which was the first proper goon
movie, exact is probably where I've heard the name of, if that,
if in which guys. So yeah.
Wow, yeah, batteries. Reese sold for what goes around.
Comes around there. That's that's amazing
collection. They're pretty good.
So so yeah it. But yeah.
Getting back to what this is. Yes, it's never.
It never really got a proper release it turned.
Well I today I was going to say it turns up on TV, does it?
Did it turn up on TV? You know, one I've never ever
seen it on television. No, every city I mean, it's not
even cropped up on people probably one of my my favorite
channels talking pictures TV. It's not even a paid on.
They add something to the best of my knowledge.
Anyway you see if you removed maybe two minutes from this
film. Hmm, this could he's well, let's
say that mean is there is nudity?
There's some racial. Yeah, I just make sure he's
resource a time, is it? No, this is this is late night a
dull. Yeah.
Stuff really? Yeah, it was certainly shown on
TV at some point in my Teenage odd because I taped it off the
tally. I can't remember.
Oh, wow. Okay.
Where I was where there? Whether I was in Belfast or in
New Zealand? Yeah, but I taped it and I
watched it maybe twice and I just never bothered watching it
again. Well, I must admit that I
usually buy anything Spike related but on this occasion,
I've done any version. I've got his wife took off of
YouTube, right? So I so I Antonio on DVD or
anything like that. I don't know if the quality is
any better. No one's easy.
But yeah it's it's not it's not it's very low quality, isn't it?
Sound and picture wise? Yeah.
The only one the only person he comes across with any degree of
clarity. Really is Sellers and I think
that's just because he's because you know he's used to projecting
like that where his okay Milligan is playing it with a
heavy Scottish brogue. Very A lot of that, a lot of
Milligan's lines. You just can't really make out
and yeah, and the picture quality is quite a dark film, in
the sense it's quite grotty looking, isn't it?
And yeah, I was about to I was gonna now you touched on that of
the book. You know, the got Enos of the
film, that seemed to be a sort of trait that's Spike.
Hey, than a lot of his work. It was sort of like, you know,
you know, the sort of like the heroic failure, everything was,
you know, gross. Even if he was trying, To
project and there are sophistication.
There's always there will be something there to bring it back
down to a level of got Enos again.
And I think it also reflects on the state of the British film
industry at that time was well. And I don't know what it I think
it's just because of the the picture quality, the sound
quality, it just makes me think of like that.
You know, those those Cheapo films that we would, the Britain
was dishing out over and over again and it was Sort of like
you know softcore pornography really.
That's that was a big banana quite a few.
I'm sorry to say British character actors ended up in
films like that in the 70s because there was no, there was
no other films being made. Yeah, usually Bob Todd clock,
tolls are really handle even appeared in 1.
John, the measure, I have the even crops up in one so I mean
you know, it's something you think is as refined as John the
measure a appearing in some sort of It's comedy.
The 70s that they're just goes to show how bad it was.
Then yeah I've got them. Actually I've got the DVD of the
great McGonagall name but it's on TV as we're recording on yet.
Okay. Yeah.
And I'm looking at it now and even, even in the best lit
scenes, it still looks like it's lined up, budgies cage, you
know, the film even the beginning of the film.
Even before the credits you see or as the credits are, And you
see Spike Tire tied to a chair being made up for the film by
Peter Sellers. And Peter Sellers puts like
this, this ill-fitting sort of Richard, the third wig Spike Lee
and what looks like some sort of rotten vegetable on his nose.
Draws on some really horrible black thick eyebrows and Spike
just looks This hideous Creature from the deep.
Just is this day. There's also something that then
it will burn perfume spray. Yeah, it's kept using as well.
I read in spikes face then he sort of put it in his own mouth
as well. Then it came back to this this
perfume spray either. It just took with me that bit
for some reason. She's it's a very odd start to
the movie because it's got nothing to do with it because
Spike doesn't look like that at all in the field to say no and
it's it's just all this in Elegance as I do.
It and you can imagine because there's no, there's no audio.
But you can imagine the voice sellers would be doing playing
this rather. You can tell.
He's playing a rather Camp makeup artist.
Yes, you could just tell from the way he's, you know, it's his
hand movements his mouth puckering, all the rest of it.
But so, the film know I wrote on my notes Here.
Yeah, because I hadn't watched this for many, many, many years,
probably, 30, plus years, okay? Because I hadn't I'll be honest
with you folks, I'd never did never really Caught my
imagination and found it a bit of a slog when I first watched
it and I've watched it obviously for the purposes of this twice
actually. Yeah.
In the last week and it look it's not it's not a great film
but there's some great bits in it.
So yes. And it and I wrote in my notes,
It could have been subtitled cue the feature film.
In other words, that, you know, it could have been yeah.
Like they were making films of British sitcoms in the 70s, you
know, I think if they made a feature film based on the
q-series spikes q-series, it might be a little bit like this
because it's got people like Bluth all John Bluth, all.
It's got A lot of the familiar tropes that yes find in the Q
Series and it's written by Spike and director John McGraw.
Yes, the John McGraw is. We've already mentioned in,
obviously, he worked with sellers on Casino Royale rather
disastrously. He'd he'd worked with it.
Worked with sellers previously, on Casella's have been a guest
star on two episodes of not only, but also, with cooking
more, ah, First of a kind of a child in
the sea. I myself find some people do
what I say and I didn't meant to check this before we started
recording Phil. Mm-hmm.
I forgot to, to be honest with it, I know that he didn't met
Sellers and Milligan in the 50s. And I want to say, he had some
involvement with the Fred shows, maybe in terms of scenery or
something like That, you know, to me not to any great degree,
but he certainly knew the guys, he'd worked with them when they
did that. Thames TV remake of tales of
men's shirts and money. Haha.
Yes. Yeah.
That one with John Cleese with Charlie please.
Yeah. Casino Royale.
Say he did, he directed mad. The major christian with Peter
and Spike. Yep.
He directed Digby. The biggest dog in the world.
The year before this with with Spike.
He did a spike series called. Oh In color 1970.
So, you know, he was in their orbit for sure.
And he, yeah, he knew them very, very well.
Peter, apparently, Peter Sellers insisted on being involved with
the film and I guess he was probably at this time.
He was casting around for something to do.
And it was, I think this was the film immediately before the
return of the Pink Panther, which real of a turd, if there's
such a word we elevated Peter Sellers into the, yeah.
Because, obviously, because I've wasn't this sort of analysis
released in 1974, but then wasn't it sort of as only filmed
over a period of three weeks. But then, the only film that
sellers are done before. The great McGonagall was soft
beds, hard battles, which I think was 73.
And I don't think then that wasn't a great success either
was it? Well, no, well, there was there
was there was the ghost in the Noonday Sun.
There was the Blockhouse. That was.
Yeah. It was that 70 did the ghost
come after this? Feels it before our car?
It's a quagmire. Yes.
Blockhouse didn't get a release and I block house was filmed in
72, because as I said on the show, previously sellers had the
beard that he Had on the 1972 Parkinson meets the goons.
Yes interview. But yeah, this empathy was also
the optimists of nine elms.young Mout around this period.
That was a good film but it made no money.
Yeah. So I guess sellers maybe sellers
had kind of, by the time, the great McGonagall comes along,
maybe sellers have kind of resigned himself to being You
know, my best days. My Glory Days are behind me.
Maybe maybe, maybe, maybe, yes, he was almost sort of at peace
with with that notion, I don't know, but he was by all
accounts, you know, in fine form for the filming of this but even
quite happy to make films with his mates.
Yes yeah. Was it really just have a laugh
more than anything else? I do think it's a great pity
that they didn't somehow managed to rope in Harry for for maybe
just a scene. You know, I know.
Oh yeah, but there you go. I decided to change
Shakespeare's plot and have Macbeth.
We made a deal with him. Kill him.
Keep the faith. Good.
So long as the audience did not do things.
You mentioned, the film was made in three weeks.
Yeah. And I think one of those weeks
was rehearsals. I believe, at Wilton's musical,
the famous Wilton's Music Hall, which was this Spike had been
instrumental in a major sort of fundraising.
Yes, that's right. Yeah.
I, uh, I, as I was saying earlier about this, There's not
a lot of information about this for me, but in bogra fees about
him and in normal Farms book, there's almost it's not even
half a page, really dedicated to the great McGonagall.
But it does say they did a fundraising concert for Wilton's
music or, which is, I don't even know, still standing because in
Shadwell, an East London and he did rope in Peter Sellers.
Yeah. Yeah.
I have said it is still available.
It is instead of I because I think, It was broadcast by The
Beatles screens, but on the BBC, and I've never seen it, and I
don't even know existed and really very good.
I mean, it's good, it's good in part.
So it's the MC is it's like it's got its like a suppose.
It's a bit like the good old days was.
Yeah. And the MC was Bill.
Fraser, the actor Bill Fraser. Oh yes, yes.
And Spike came on a did a tone, although I think it was in
blackface, oh my God, sellers came on a did The Ballad of Sam
Hall, which have talked about on the show before, which was a
thundering performance. As this, this stage actor
barrack in the audience and basically tell the telling them
all to go to hell, yeah, Alex sellers is really in his in his
element doing that, but if I can, if I can feel, I will get a
copy and send you it. Well, thank you digital copy.
Because yes, it's quite it's quite something to quite
something to behold. I'm like, But yeah, so so Spike,
you know, the Wilton's was very dear to Spokes heart and I
believe he slept the archery, some of the filming.
All right? Okay, even though I actually
did, do we know why Spike was so attached to this particular
Musical? I'm not quite sure it just gets
the history of it. I guess it was.
Yeah, I don't know if it was a some sort of childhood thing
with him. Although he had a grown-up, he
hadn't grown up in London really know, he hadn't noticed that
there's this one trying to figure out because obviously you
know, the IE didn't move to the Stanley, move to South East
London catford, where, where I come from.
So or broccoli. Really good.
We first moved to. But yeah, it's yeah.
I just couldn't see what that must have been some kind of
connection there because he was Determining to to save this
building and I think even to sort of like filming the great
McGonagall there was again in part to raise funds for the, for
the theater, which is, which is a great, a great thing to do,
but whether it lends itself to the film or not, I well we'll
come onto that I think. Yeah, I think he just had this
he'd always he's always been a campaigner for causes, hasn't
he? And it was a conservationist.
And he was all about preserving history and things like that so
I guess. Yeah it might just be because of
that. So yeah, so let's say spike and
Joe McGrath they come up with the script And they roped in
some Pals. So yeah, just not just sellers
but there was I want to run through these.
Well, there's John blue total, first of all?
Now, John blue thought, you know, just he died only
relatively recently and yes, just in everything.
Everything, you know, any self-respecting fan of British
comedy or comedy. In General, John Bluford would
just turn up and he was always always Ways.
Good value in every yesterday up on?
Yeah, I think he did from Eastern Europe, originally, and
then like that when he was born and I think he grew up in
Australia and then he moved to the UK, but he'd worked because
because Spike had gone to four spikes parents emigrated to
Australia. Yes.
So and as, you know, some short
spike often went to Australia did a lot of work in Australia
and in 58. He was over there doing radio
series called the idiot weekly. Yes yeah, Chad no relation to
the idiot weekly price tuppence the television show that he and
sellers made in 56. Mmm, they just they just
borrowed the name basically. But John Bluth.
All was on that, on that show. Yes, right.
Okay. And then a few years later Bluth
all moved to the UK. And he turns up in the The ohmic
I am show which was a UK of British remake of these hit
weakly. Yes bike was involved and John
Blow till turns up. He's in the first run of the bed
sitting room play in, 63 the spike.
He's he's great. He's in, he's in spikes
q-series. He's in, there's a lot of it
about which was, I guess I suppose you call it Q 10. 10,
really? Yeah exactly.
Yeah. He was in The Melting Pot that
Sitcom that Spike made the aborted sitcom.
Yes, he was in Digby the biggest dog in the world and and funny
enough he was in the return of the Pink Panther with Peter
Sellers. He was the he was the blind
beggar. Yes cozy with the Minke.
Yes city of announced 13 to our prohibits the begging.
How do you know so much about this city ordinances but sort of
stupid question is that you're blind?
You Yes, Joe McGrath had worked with him a few times as well as
a director. So mainly notably on, it's a
square world and Joe McGraw. I think sometimes exaggerate
sore or maybe Miss remembers that.
Yeah. And I I'm going to be saying
stuff on here that Joe McGrath has said if you like and okay
and this is the base, this is off.
The fact that on the DVD, There Is A Commentary between Joe
McGraw, and the comedy historian, Robert Ross?
Yeah. All I want to say is that John
McGraw, great guy. Very funny guy, very
entertaining. I am sure it'd be great to go
for a pint with. Yeah.
Sometimes I think, are you sure about that joke?
But anyway, he said about it's a square world that Michael Benton
wanted John Bluth or fired because he was being too funny.
Oh, now, I can't imagine. Michael been seen.
Ever, ever saying they're even thinking it actually.
No, no. Not at all.
I can imagine Peter Sellers may be stressed.
No, no certain local painting is ever any all the time about
Marco been seen is what I've absolutely fantastic guy was.
And what a nice man. Yeah, so I don't believe sorry.
Joe. I don't believe you there might
be some Jew. Germ of Truth there.
Maybe Michael Banting was having a bad day maybe.
And maybe he was saying it slightly.
Tongue-in-cheek, who knows? Anyway.
Yeah. But but so you said, so John
blue thought. Obviously, in fact, there's most
of the cast apart from one or two, most of the cars, play
multiple characters in the grave McGonagall.
Yes. John blue dog plays.
Many roles including Hercules faint.
I didn't write it down. Pick his fate.
I think that's the name heard. He's right?
Yeah he plays. He plays the The would-be
Assassin of Queen Victoria and many others and then, and then
you have victus bonetti, of course, the wonderful victus.
Benetti, whoo, yes. Whoo.
I thought it worked with Salazar Milligan more, but actually
looking at it, he, he turns up in a couple of Pink Panther
films, including Return of the Pink Panther.
Hmm, he turns up in Digby, of course, the biggest dog in the
world, but that's it. Really.
But then he did appear in every Single Beatles film didn't they?
He did indeed. Yeah.
So it's probably easy to kind of conflate the two Victor's
panetti, of course, is playing characters such as John Brown,
yes, queen and a fake John Brown.
Oh yes, yes, it takes place two different versions of John brow,
which I guess. But many many different roles.
And then of course, Valentine dial who listeners to this
podcast. Will be very familiar with.
Not only regular guest artist on the Goon show but he had
appeared in shows like show called Fred son of Fred.
He was he again was in the first run of the bed sitting room as
Lord fortnum onstage, okay? And he's, he's yeah, I mean, he
is career was so alive. Lined with Milligan and sellers
particularly Milligan and he doesn't great him and he's
outfit. Lord Tennyson.
He's I just thought I'll just don't know that known as the
stripping. Look.
Yes. She doesn't have much to do and
all the way through. Yes.
Yes, I think because she was close to a very well-known sort
of British actress. And I was surprised to see her
in the cast list. As you say she gets a very sort
of thankless task really, which is a bit of a bit of Shame.
They were pity career has been before, but yeah, it's like
she's resigned to this life of drudgery.
Yeah, we had to be honest. She's always like spikes,
straight men. Because she's the only one in
the film. Doesn't really do anything salt
over the top or are using the word zany if you see where I'm
coming from, I do yeah it's yeah I hate I hate using that word in
relation to spike Milligan Iran says it zany comedy of Spike
Milligan no there's more to it than that yet she just played it
straight is always very like a very natural performance
particularly with the with with mcgonagall's kids Yeah, I was
trying to find out who the kids were, if they were any.
I wondered where I even at one point thought were one of the
was one of the Jane Milligan, you know.
Yeah, it's yeah, but apparently, because they're not even
credited. They're not even on IMDb.
No, No, Harry. There were just two children
from stage school, that they, that, they look for a fiver to
do. Couple of days work.
Yeah, and you've got, yeah, you've got a couple of other
actors like Clifton James. Who's a black actor?
Who plays the well, there's there's a number of scenes that
are a bit now. Yeah, exactly.
Usually, he whites up in one scene, doesn't it?
Yes, he does. Yeah, then other popular he's
playing like an African prince who maybe most scenes as well
but but Clifton Jones probably most famous for starring the
first series of Jerry ends in space 1999.
Okay, I've never seen that. It was easy to think that that
first is, was the, was the better series.
I mean, the science is all over the shopping.
You got the moon, booms blown out of Earth's orbit for
starters. But yeah, he was only the first
series as a David Carr know. He was sort of like the, the
computer expert. Okay?
Yes. So, but that's what I learned
and that isn't, I'll sort of an episode of them of the
professionals once as well. And so, to see mean this, I was,
I was quite well. Whoa, blimey.
That's a bit of a bit of a turn-up for the books.
Yeah. Yeah.
But I thought he quit himself well oh yeah.
He seemed to get the, get the comedy of it because I think the
thing for this type of film, it takes a certain kind of actor to
get to grips with what they're trying to achieve.
Really. Yeah.
If you know, if you weren't
aware of Milligan and his work, it would be very, very difficult
to get your head around. What you're paying us to do?
Yeah. Yeah, where is I mean?
Blue thought and I guess to a lesser degree, well, Bluth
wouldn't dial and to a lesser degree spaghetti.
Hmm. They know what all this is about
their their well-versed in. Yeah.
The the Milligan style whereas I guess the likes of giulia.
Mr. Clifton Jones Julian Chagrin who wasn't aware of either who
plays a number of roles including Prince Albert.
Yeah either way. All right.
Yes Vicky. Oh yeah.
I mean I say that Both Milligan and
McGraw objected, because there is some Forefront of female
nudity, guess there is yeah, quite quite gratuitous and they
both were against that scene. There's a scene in with Spike as
mg got to go in jail and there's a girl dancing naked in his
cell. Yeah.
Which meant to be a hallucination.
I think, or dream. Think it doesn't make a lot of
sense. Now, it's also got this very
anachronistic. 70s library music.
Yes, yes, yes. Yes.
Spike slips a bit lost. Really, he does.
So actually a - happy what you say because when that seen start
so it cuts the to the gold ounce in, he's just sitting in the
chair and he's got his head slammed down.
Yeah, as I say is, if like, oh God, why is this happening?
Maybe. As he say, he didn't agree with.
See. Maybe that.
That was his little protest. Maybe yeah.
Yeah. Who knows, you know, they had to
give in because the the money man insisted on it.
So, yeah, and there's a couple of other.
There's there's a, there's a brief scene with Valentine dial
in bed with a naked lady. Yes.
And there's some there's like a what there's kind of like a what
the butler saw kind of routine. Yeah that that was weird.
Yeah yeah, that was that bit was weird and I was some struggling
to understand what what that was doing in the film.
Are those just a bit? Another bit of cheek
titillation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we'll come onto that. I mean, there's also just just
finishing off the cars. There's Charlie Adam.
Yes, he did a pit him. I've seen him in a couple of Q
episodes over the years. Yeah.
Little, what you call him a little person and he has a
number of roles. And in one scene he actually
gets because he wasn't available to do over do.
Herbs, or ADR Joe McGrath had to do with his voice for one scene?
That's right. Yeah.
Well at this before, before we move out, go coming back to
Julian Chagrin. Oh sorry.
Yes. Show Chagrin.
I got you want to pronounce it? Yeah.
Are you familiar with the the other thing that he's famous
for? No.
Okay. There was an advert in the 1970s
for our White's Lemonade's, And he was the CEO was the guy come
down the stairs singing. I'm the secret lemonade Drinker.
Which Joe McGrath directed. Yes, Inc didn't hear ya.
Oh, I knew it. I knew McGraw directed I didn't
realize it was Julian Chuckles you didn't share going yeah okay
yeah. Now Judy Chicago tonight I
tracked this down because it was and is I can't find it on
YouTube video. It appears to have been taken
down all the channels are longer.
The person shows a longer there, but he did.
It's a silent movie or practically silent movie in the
early seventies about Christmas trees.
And basically it was it was made by him and his brother brother
know which escapes me at the moment, but it was really weird.
Creepy thing with base that they're in like a forest and
these trees were sort of like human.
He was at this, his face was in the tree and it's basically from
the time they get chopped down for Christmas, they spend
Christmas with the family and then baste them being tossed out
to be burn or to rot and they go up to Christmas tree heaven.
Was, it's a very weird, very weird film, but the reason I was
put onto it because there was a weird Little Doctor, Who
connection as an actress who played the mum of his family?
Was in a story of Tom Baker's in the 70s but also in this, as one
of the tree cutters, right? The very beginning only seen
once walking towards the camera is Ozzie actor.
Bryan Brown Oh, from cocktail. And yes.
Yeah and FX Murder By illusion was ever feel that he was famous
for. Yeah.
It really is a blink and you'll miss it and I have to sort of
put that's Prime. Brandon pulls it?
Yes, he's Brian Brown. It was couldn't believe it.
If you can, if you can find it watch, it is a very strange
little film. There was there was a six-month
period, maybe I want to say, 88-89 weird.
Yeah, I'm Brown was a huge star, he was.
Yeah. Yeah.
It wasn't anything. Yeah.
Well there you go. So you can cut that bad.
If you like be one of the most famous adverts on British TV in
the 1970s. Yeah whenever there's one of
those channel five shows. Yeah.
The Greatest Adventure of all time hundred graders ever sits
in the top 10 as an it, I think always.
Yeah, exactly. Oh, and by the way, just coming
back to that jail scene with the L down.
Yeah, just just immediately before that, there's that bit
where Spike is sort of tempted into listening at this hole in
the wall. Yeah, it's a boxing glove in the
face which is just just a, just a lifted that wholesale from the
running jumping and standing still film.
Oh God? Yeah, totally.
Totally. The thing is though, I that if I
have a search for photographs of Spike Milligan, that would
always crops up. Yes.
And for user was what where it came from and well now we know
it comes from this film, you know?
So sir that's it. Yeah, so I thought it's it from
Q or something like that but again it's another typical
Milligan gag really isn't it? The boxing to the the lone
Boxing Club to the face, you know, it's it's all in cartoons
to me. He did.
Yeah, cartoons, totally, totally.
I want to bring in, I'm going to came in possession of very
interesting review of the film which was written in, I guess,
1974 by the writer and critic pain.
Be Gilead. Hmm.
I certainly knew her name. I guess, as a film critic, I'm
not quite sure. I know, she wrote the screenplay
for the film Sunday, Bloody Sunday, and it's all right,
okay? Yeah, but she was, you know, she
was, she was quite a big noise, back in the back in the day and
she wrote a review, long-form review of the great McGonagall
for a publication. Now, what publication?
Top of your head. Do you think she might have
written a review of the great McGonagall?
The spike Milligan film. What what?
Oh, why do I try to occasion public art Magazine from the,
from the 70s of the Tippets other?
I'll maybe the Family Circle. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. That's a, no, no, no.
She wrote this for the New Yorker magazine, which is well,
okay, okay, yeah, I don't quite know why did I don't think the
film in the film We basically get a release in the UK let
alone outside. Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah.
But she was very taken by the film.
She was very taken by it, and she's got this, there's this,
there's this article that she wrote and she writes a little
bit about McGonagall himself, which I just thought I'd just
read now because it just to get so, obviously, when he McGonigal
did exist, he was he was an actual person.
Yes. And And she writes that his
poems are among the great artistic legacies of victoriana
in middle-aged as an unemployed Scottish Weaver.
He decided to retire from non-work and devote himself to
poetry, a rep saddest of an uncommonly methodical.
Turn of Mind. He was much given to putting
practical technical advice into his poetry bathos.
Struck no Terror to his heart and he clung to the least chance
of rhyme disregarding m. And she gives the example of
what a bridge. Yes, I'm not going to read it
but I might put a clip in because it yes I can't do
justice to the to the tabe ridge.
Railway Bridge of the cell variety.
Beautiful Railway, Bridge of the Silvery day with your numerous
arches and pillars. And so Grand re, and your
central gunter's, which seemed to the eye to be.
All must tell wearing to the sky and the greatest wonder of the
present day and the great beautification to the river.
T most beautiful to be seen nearby Dundee and the Magdalene
green. Beautiful Railway Bridge of the
silver ETA which will cause great rejoicing on the opening
day and hundreds of people will come from far away.
Also the queen most gorgeous to be seen, nearby Dundee and the
Magdalene green. The New Yorkers boast about
their Brooklyn Bridge, but in comparison with thee, it seems
like a major because those Spanish, the celebrate, a, a
mile and longer. I venture to say, besides their
Railway carriages are pulled across by a rope there for
Brooklyn, Bridge, cannot with thee cope.
Beautiful Railway, Bridge of the Silvery T.
I hope that God will protect all passengers by night and by day
and that no accident will befall them while crossing the bridge
of the Silvery teehee. For that would be most awful to
be seen. Nearby Dundee and the Magdalene
green. But my dear ladies and
gentlemen, not poem is no out of front.
When I do not propose to print it again, I'm going to the
bridge being blown down within a 12 month of the opening day, she
goes on to say about the film. She says, Spike Milligan with a
nose like a quill pen that is about to dash off an Ode to
Prince Albert's tonsils or the measurements of the newest
Railway line gives McGonigal a stoic pathos as he trudges
through visibly artificial snow to have tea with the queen but
the queen speaking in Cellars most maniacal and decisive It's
so surprising voice is also reverently treated her fondness
for the Ghillie. Brown is handled with kid.
Gloves fit for her to open. A damn.
She looks thinner in the face than we remember from coins and
very heavily ruched. Okay, sellers get second billing
in this fierce, but he's barely on the screen really.
He's, he's there at right at the beginning as the makeup artist
applying this, this crap to Milligan's face and then An hour
in, he turns up on his knees on a skateboard, I believe under
under the skirts, honestly board as as Queen Victoria, although
it no, no, no, no, he's in it, beginning as well because you
get the, you get the Shadows. It blue throws for net is as
Roderick McLean who tried to assassinate Queen Victoria.
That's right. Yeah, be clear.
Yes, you've got these other things, watch it.
She's watching the sort of the anarchists basis, and she on
stage, it's bonetti, yes, Vanessa, yes.
Oh yes, you get his wits and you've so you it's starts off in
Wilton's musical with Queen Victoria and Albert watching,
like a revolt on stage, which is got a full victoriana audience.
Then it breaks into a into a fight which then has police
horses and muscle the tables and chairs and the guy trying to
assess no but you've got Millie Gunners as McGonigal in the
audience who then falls in love with Queen Victoria.
That precise moment. Doesn't mean it's right?
Yeah, yeah. And sellers obviously insisted
on being in the film but he Bears no resemblance whatsoever.
None what? So typically as as Penelope
Gilead indicators is he said, thin-faced, I mean, the sellers
of 1954 would have put yes. What do I do?
Much better going to be better but but no, I've yes, we do have
that scene at the beginning with Victorian Albert.
But and but then it's another hour into the film before you
see a reggae him again? Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. But as I say together, with the
beginning as well, when we're gonna go get some stage, he
doesn't do his poetry, it's spikers.
Max Miller singing Mary from the dairy wearing apparently, I
found out wearing maximal is or one of Max Min is actual suits.
Yeah, that's good. Let's see where he's hooked off.
Yeah, the other ship is crook elsevier.
But that's the thing that when you get the, when he when
Milligan does do mcgonagall's, poetry you do.
Get the, the dramatic, or with the beginning before he starts
recounted it. But it's the, we talked about
him being in jail, but when he's in coal and blue films, playing
the judge and ask him to read some of his poetry and Susie
goes or like that, all the jury run out.
What are your wedding? Hey man.
So there's snowed but French actress year, they might want to
do friends. It's not what you'd call a
regular employment. What would you call it the
unemployed? How much could you afford to pay
each week? He was thinking of her pants a
year yellow. That rate, it would take your
nearly 100 years to repay the debt.
Mr. McGonigle can you think of any reason why you should not be
such a prison? Yes, I'm just watching the film
is playing as as we're talking as I said, right?
And I'm just watching the scene where He's just there talking to
his wife and his Kilt. Just just drop this drop.
We have. So we have to foil 's.
Then there's the scene, which is a bit baffling with the Royal
Scots in zululand. Yeah.
And and and spaghetti as As one of the Lieutenant's you left her
on Frederick Rollo. Mmm.
Yeah. Writes him.
A fan letter isn't? Yeah.
You could not say that this film
has a particularly strong plot or a coherent.
Plot. Know, there was a plot of sorts
but it did the film relies upon, the gotta go just being a
rubbish poet basically. Yeah.
And both are taking people taking them back.
Well, that that beats true, isn't it?
Because that they did this group of people did sort of fooled
your letter inviting. Yeah, I do a big tour.
Inviting McGonigal to Balmoral that.
And that's, that's the sort of the biggest fantasy scene of the
film, really, isn't it? Well, actually, people before we
get onto the giunta Bama of there, there's one bit where
he's saying goodbye to his family.
Which I found rather sweet and watching it now.
It's literally on as as we're talking right.
Okay. You know, I really found that
quite genuine to be honest and I don't know why because he's not
playing it for the laughs at all.
He's playing some of this is my because McGonagall I think
spikes are locked himself in McGonagall.
Each is carried on in the face of what spikes or as adversity
even though. Hated the BBC, but the BBC gave
me a lot of opportunities to keep producing stuff and make
them put on the radio and putting on the television.
So he saw the way perceived as adversity in his life.
And I think he saw a lot of himself in McGonagall, who just
kept going, you know, even if people do something like no,
you're rubbish, although didn't laugh.
He just kept going and I think that, I think that's why this
was such a passion project for him.
So I think that that same one, he he's bout to.
We've got to walk to Balmoral, isn't he?
Truce truce? No and sewn everything.
Yeah so let's say goodbye to his family.
I thought was it was rather. I thought it was a rather sweet
scene. The scene that accelerates this
action. If you like yeah, or triggers
this, the scene that triggers this.
We haven't talked about which is, is the famous seen that, in
fact, myself and former guest Chris Diamond I've talked about
Chris? Yes, yes.
And I don't like going to say, yeah, there's a scene where R,
John Brown. Supposedly turns up.
This is spinach, is the fake John Brown, isn't it?
Victor. Spaghetti is the Fate John.
Brown Turn. Yes, with this letter inviting
from supposedly for Victoria, inviting McGonagall to Balmoral.
Yeah. And you have this bit, you have
to sequence where Spike Forgets his lines or it's not quite sure
what his lines ours is quite sure what he's meant to be
doing. Yeah.
And and he questions John McGraw off camera.
Yeah. And and it genuinely looks if
you watch it as you have, it does look like an absolute
genuine outtake. Where Milligan doesn't know
what's what he's meant to be doing.
What is my yes? Saying he's just he's just dried
basically but no, it was Joe. Gras intensity.
It was it was scripted. It was slightly improvised, but
it was mainly scripted. It wasn't meant to be like that.
And Milligan's acting is fantastic in that because it is,
you know, it's quite remarkable and it's an interesting, it's
obviously, it's playing with the form.
Yes, it's Milligan being Milligan.
It's it's but you could be mistaken for thinking good.
God is the, was the budget so low that they just included.
Just get, that is exactly. Yeah.
And then, of course, because they call lunch off the They
finished filming that scene that then it cuts that scene of
Milligan and the two children, arriving like that the catering
van. Yes.
And those what? These scraps left on the table.
Yeah, but the trip to Balmoral is interesting and we meet.
Well, he has this. What?
What turns out to be a dream that he meets, Queen Victoria.
And yeah, Prince, Albert, do you want to describe get, you want
to describe this sequence? Well, it's Also, because aec
turns up at the gates of barrel which is just a cardboard.
Cutout really is because it's still on the stage of Wilton's
musical. Yes, everything.
Yeah, and he's in the full, Scottish regard to the big Tamil
Shanter is even dyed his beard for the occasionally.
It is. It is dream.
He looks resplendent. Exactly, exactly.
So you get insides and there's Victoria played by Peter says
who's on his knees on its cover, a roller skates basis.
Isn't it? And you've got again, you've got
Albert play by June and shagging is basically Hitler.
Yeah really but he does it in a almost like a dr.
Strangelove voice. Yes he does.
Yeah, as well, doesn't he? But you through just froze?
Our yeah, Vicky it's that all these first with Vicki all the
time but she seems to go into the set of take on Victoria.
She sees have little little flushes.
Little crisis is now again doesn't show you anything.
It's a McGonigal says he's Three or Albert's is something a bit a
bit Saucy. And I love the way that Sellers
as Victoria is playing the piano.
Oh God. That was our, that was
brilliant. What was it was?
It was it was like was it like a Ragtime Jazz card?
Yeah. But there was no actual pretends
to make. I would make it look like he was
actually playing the piano if he's paying these hands up and
down. I'll see if he's brilliant but
he's going berserk with his hands.
Though, wasn't it? Because obviously sellers is
Crouch down. Yeah, his nose is virtually on
the keys of the piano. Oh there.
But then you get this this scene where I think it was it was it
Albert, go someplace this. What's that organ thing is, it's
he plays, it's got a name, hasn't it?
It's not the word that series as well as Sir.
No, it's got a, like, an innuendo type of name, isn't it?
It's oh, yeah, I didn't write that down.
Yeah, it's almost like Albert's, massive organ, or something like
that. I don't know, but, yeah, it's a
bit. Yeah, a bit on the nose.
I think it from, it seems remember rightly, but this then
it's all done. Bounce With Me Queen.
So you've got sellers and and Milligan on a turntable, which
is its panetti and who else is pushing the boat.
Just push them around that it's as if they're doing the wall.
So this turns out able. Yeah.
But then you've got Milligan and
I don't know what he's supposed to be saying, but he gets Pixar.
All the fluster because it cuts to lot of the cameras.
Sort of like don't look sort of like a kit from Victoria's point
of view. Then we're gonna go spawned of
you. Yeah.
And he's not say anything but he's got a long.
I don't like that and she doesn't know.
And so it's almost like it's almost orgasmic.
Fate has four faces that he's pulling its sellers.
Looks like he's having an absolute ball so much fun.
Yeah, exactly. Yes, I much fun.
I mean it's not subtle at all you know they mentioned Hitler
by name, not swell all the bang. Those it that was it.
The last all Hitler banyak. Exactly.
Yeah. Dressed as Hitler.
Yeah, again it won't be spiked if you do that.
Some hit the gags in there and the seams with the Salazar's
Victoria probably lasts 15 minutes, 10, 15 minutes, at most
out that tops. Yeah, but yeah, in in this
sequence Sellers, as is clearly playing Victoria as a bit of a
Randy old bird. Yeah, exactly which year, which
I guess she must have been up to a point because, you know, she
had what a couple of dozen kids or something.
Wasn't it, exactly. Oh yeah, yeah, crikey.
That's yeah, that's yeah. I think Albert was the same as
well as she wasn't me. So it's yeah.
That this there was some truth in what they were trying to do
that in a very exaggerated manner, of course.
But yeah. But it's unfortunate.
That's, that's the only, that's the last time you see sellers in
the film. Really, because he doesn't play
any other characters does it, which is a shame cause he's only
there for a week and be there for a week.
Yeah. What a wonderer I presume that
was all his scheduled allow but if he hear been there longer and
no I've no doubt, he would have played other characters.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
But, so suppose say I've been after, obviously, he wakes up in
the snow at that point. There's Ali.
Yeah. And then in the end, he does
trust the Balmoral and he gets tough.
The whale hit over the head. Doesn't know with the is it
Valentine dollars. Is the copper know I think
because she's shag British a green again, think it is.
Yeah yeah I mean as I say I'm watching the film is playing as
we are speaking. It was still, in fact we're at
the what the butler saw sequence which is just Ludacris.
See that's my any sense at all. Does it?
No, none whatsoever. Not at all kind of think did
sellers sellers despite everything.
So is a big star. He's got a lot of clout.
Yes, I was nuts. That's someone's not.
Maybe sort of saying well, you know.
Okay yeah. All right, come on.
I don't want to be involved with this sort of sequence, but maybe
it was it was done after his involvement was was over, but
maybe, yeah, but I know what you mean though.
Because he say, I mean, He had stalled in a string of flops but
he was still a big star. Yeah, it's certainly, certainly
this country anyway. So yeah, just now, just notice
here, there's a scene. In fact, I hadn't noticed it
before because obviously sellers has been playing Victoria on her
knees, but he stands up to its full height at one point and you
can see the skirt lift. You can see his, his calves of
his legs, his hairy. Yes.
And on, one leg has got V written on and on the other leg
are written. Ha ha.
Wonderful. I wish I had I wish I was
playing in the background there also.
Well it's because it's not one of those films where there's a
through narrative there's a linear story, really know.
It's it's very Loosely strung together by a pic of McGonagall.
But as it even then it's more. How can I put it?
As I said, you know, I think it's more of a biopic of Spike.
More than anything else. I think Joe McGrath, perhaps.
He said this much at the time, so I think it was in Humphrey
Carpenters biography. Hmm, that he said him in large,
it's this film was really a Millikan self called trait.
Yeah, which I can I can see that.
I really can. When you can see that you
referred to that a bit early, didn't you?
Yeah this. Yes, he was determined to carry
on, no matter what, what was no matter what type of thought,
exactly, you know, it's, um, I think he's on one of those off.
It was it, the last the gong show that, that documentary says
on, he says on there, you know, ignore these stupid bastards.
You I'm, you are funny. I am funny, I read this to
people at the pub, Seeking out some kind of acceptance of the
joke because they were always thick as planks that is boozes.
They never laughed at anything. I thought why am I laughing at
this? And nobody else is probably
because they weren't funny and I was and they have multiplied
since to a greater degree so much.
Sure they're writing comedies now, but no, laughs at all some
little light in me said, ignore these stupid bastards.
It is funny. You are funny.
Enjoy it yourself. That's was a driving energy
behind me, and I've been like that ever since that's why I'm
now totally unemployed. Can we keep going all over the
place with this? But one thing we forgot to
mention was prior to this scene. Yeah.
Is where McGonagall has improved upon Macbeth.
And, oh, God. Yes.
In the samurai outfit on the Samurai and the summary, which
Apparently was owned by Bruce Lacey from of the Albert's.
Yeah, despite would have known in fact.
Yeah, Bruce Lacey turns up in the running jumping and standing
still film and there's that horrific scene.
Respite Falls slain in the samurai outfit and he falls
backwards and slow motion to the music from 2001.
What's it called? Thus spake zarathustra Terror
Thruster or something. Yeah, yeah.
But that whole scene which I'm Luthor is wonderful.
Isn't it with the do it? Because he's meant to, he's
obviously having it's meant to die but if it's no, I can do it
better and he doesn't die. He doesn't die.
No. I think he's coming back.
It was, it was a real McGonigle thing.
He that's what he did. He thought he could improve
Shakespeare. That was one of his.
I think he hit more money doing that than he did with his own
poetry for. If I yeah, I remember my
McGonagall history. But yeah, I mean it's I mean
once he gets back to this the next but I can't forget does he
come back down to London after going to Balmoral because it
seems to me that in a cockney East End pub?
Yeah, he has the next thing. There's no, he's Runnin with the
copper. In fact, hang on.
I'm looking at it now. It's all right.
Okay. Let's say there's just come on
now. Today it is Valentine dial as
the copper is that it Which I thought was beautiful.
Actually some yeah, he's sick haunting lilting, lovely?
Yes, yes, it is and not what you would expect from a film like
this. It's not valid Kali.
It is very, very melancholic. And the film also takes a little
bit of a dark turn Yeah. But that that but when you get
to London because that that bit reduce Falls face down on the
floor. Yeah.
In that empty bar and he just burst into tears.
Yeah. And it's so sad.
And again, Milligan is fantastic.
The doing the straight stuff. And it, you know, you got all
this stuff going to be funny. It's some sort of ends, you
know, you know, you know, towards the end of the film,
really, and he just broke burst down.
It, you know, will breaks down really about You know, he can't
take anymore and it's so sad. It really is said, I mean, it
didn't quite end like that for, for her, from a conical with.
So, he did, he didn't, he did sort of eating diet in abject
poverty. At the end, did anything in real
life? He was he was subsidized by
friends, wasn't he? Yes.
So you he was looked after to
talk towards the end of his life, but but we spy time,
obviously with spiky eat You get another one of the one of the
great Milligan tropes. Is it someone's been beaten up?
It's swapped for an obvious tummy.
Yes, yeah, no. There's there's this no attempts
to to steep this film in any kind of reality.
No, none whatsoever. We gotta go, it's beaten up and
left for dead and then we have we have the scene where light is
I was lying on his deathbed basically.
Yeah. But you do get that these do get
the for Alfred little Tennyson's though.
Yes, that was odd. That's an odd.
Yeah. To pick the real one with which
was Valentine's Day while ago, but they'd probably takes off
his clothes and gets into bed with mcgonagall's after well,
and that's the thing. This is where they needed
sellers. I think.
Yeah, because I could have seen sellers playing the Tennyson
well, because Valentine dial. First of all, is the Doctor
Who's treating McGonagall. Go on his deathbed, say the
captain catastrophe, a color, pink and catastrophe.
How is he doctor him? Oh, hello.
Yes. And he's suffering from an
attack of young Monroe's, sailor.
McGonigle, we will stand in front of that screen.
Take our clothes off. No,
well, I get him some laudanum, he's not dead by morning, I'll
call again, if he wakes them change his protease.
No, would you stand in front of that screen and take your
clothes off? No, but there's the doctor says,
Jimmy knows what's best for us and they're literally walks out.
The room comes back in is the stripping Tennyson.
You could have seen sellers playing tennis and I'm trying to
think how he would play him. Probably highly Camp likes
probably today. Yeah, yeah.
And then quite unaccountably. What's his name?
Clifton Jones turns up as a African Chief.
Yes. And gets into bed as well.
So, you see, he walks in, with his Entourage?
Doesn't he? Like a kingly Entourage and him
gets into bed, as well? I'm, but again, it's another
fantasy sequence, isn't it? Yeah, he, if he does so he does
end up with fan mail, doesn't he?
But it's only he's line early days, he does.
Yes, it does get fan mail that what leads into the fantasy bit,
isn't it? Then it, but then it cuts back
to Valentine dolls as the doctor I know you get these but he just
got old. Is he say that?
I'm Very tired. So very tired.
And then there's a small, the end of the film for you folks,
but if he dies, it's nice. And that is again, it's not,
there's no sort of clay for Laughs.
He gets a bit because they put the pull the sheet up over his
face and your half expecting him to sort of Gap as I'm not dead
yet, or the last poem before he dies.
But no, there's nothing. That's that's, that's it, folks,
that's it. Yeah, and as you say, then it
cuts to us that that melancholic music again and it's lovely.
It's lovely. But as a very downbeat ending
for it is film. Yeah.
It's a real. In fact, it's like Curie over
film. Isn't it just as he dies you cut
to think? It's I think it's Julian
shagging as a, as a preacher or a.
Yes, it is. Yeah.
Because it yeah because he writes he says a little little
like a little sermon about about McGonagall doesn't make sense.
Yeah. Got it was reading reading.
One of these fan letters. Yeah.
You hear the voice, you hear. It's a bit like that scene from
the first episode of The League of gentlemen.
Mechanical can hear the person who's written the letter.
It can hear their voice getting around the room with this rather
room. It started this shit.
Did the thing is, it's not, it's not a laugh out loud movie, but
by any stretch of the imagination that there are some,
as you say, some very Q like, which we've already highlighted.
I think those are things that have made us laugh.
The most, yeah, it says Q moments, but as I said could
come the end, it gets darker and darker.
And since the point he he dies and it's very, very, it's
actually aren't you. Feel quite sad when we're gonna
go died at the end because he just kept going and he was an
utter failure, really? And it's only till after he
died. He did get that Fame that he,
that he did, and was known for his poetry, in no small way
through the goons actually. Yeah, exactly.
But but it's, as we know, Spike would be the first to have
admitted that he was not particularly great at endings
writing endings. Nugs know.
And I guess this was the only practical ending, he could come
up with, and he thought he'd play it fairly straight.
Yeah, yeah, fair enough verily exactly.
But I mean, anyone who's listening to this podcast?
Who hasn't watched the film? Probably thinking.
Good God. It sounds totally bizarre.
It's just sounds not not like something we would want to do
this. If you listen to this podcast,
you probably would want to watch this.
But I would hope so because I think, I think it's a real
interesting movie from from British Cinema of the early
1970s. Yeah, we were turning out a lot
of sex comedies. I've entered a taxi driver and
we eventually win the clean and stuff like that.
And and also the the comedy shows of the TV turned into into
movies mostly made by Hammer films strangely enough.
All the on the buses films were made by Hammer.
That's right. In fact which is just weird
really a bit but that just showed how far down the pecking
order Hammer has gone. Well famously first on the buses
film was Was the second highest grossing British film of 71
without yes, diamonds. Are forever.
Yeah, which is amazing. What was wrong with people?
So gonna say God, yeah.
Yeah. See, I'm quite fond and
interestingly connection with this film.
I'm quite fond of a lot of people aren't most.
People aren't quite fond of the rising damp film which was
directed by Joe McGraw. Yes.
But that doesn't, you know, I know will go wild, you have to
engineer, but the rising damp film.
Was, it was basically made out of like, three or four actual
episodes. That's right.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Actually, I still enjoyed it. I do, it's got my favorite games
with the cat. Thanks.
No. But he lands on all fours and it
doesn't because there's Jerry Graff during the making of This
film wrote a poem Rotom McGonigal esque poem.
All right. Okay Spike.
Yeah. And I don't have it, I don't
have the entire poem here but one of the lines was something
along the lines of Oh, not only have you a reputation as a
comedian and a poet. I will drink to your reputation
with a chilled glass of Mowat and apparently Spike, was so
delighted by it. He had it framed and hung up in
his laboratory and I don't know whether it was still there when
he hung up the letter from Lynn Frederick.
Peter Sellers died saying that Spike was getting nothing from
Spike and brittle in Frederick asking if he could maybe have a
few of Peters films and things that Peters home movies and yeah
that that Spike was quite keen on and and she basically wrote
back saying bugger off and he had that letter framed and put
in the lavatory so I wonder if the McGrath poem was next to it
loudly. What Yes, yes.
So is there anything else about the film that we haven't touched
on? I mean there's plenty of other
film you haven't touched on. But is really thing know, for
the purposes of the length of this podcast that you want to
touch on that, we sort of touched everything, right.
I think that again, it is coming back to stuff that Joe McGrath
said about Spike, even though that we sort of said this is a
passion project for him, but he said One day, he would, he was
fight with with, with, with him about scenes and he go into
almost like a depression and he said, they the end of the day
that I had to carry him out to the car because he's our lives
would get heavy. They were disclosed and then
that he just shut down. But then he said on the next
day, he'd be agreeable. And he and he take on directors
notes and everything. So, as I think, it's not son.
Use it was a difficult shoot so don't think it was.
I just think Spike want it to go, right?
Really. McGonigle was his hero?
Yeah. Really as much as it was Peter
Sellers as well for that matter. So I think he just wanted to
make it as good as he could really and and there's no
doubting, you know, you can't say this, you know?
This is a spike, Milligan film. You can't get away from that is
very much him. Yes, really.
If you're going to get a film starring spot, make a written by
Spike Milligan. This is what you're going to get
indeed. Yeah and I think if you, if you
go into watching this film with that mindset, I don't think
you'd be that disappointed. No.
And I want to I want to end just again quoting from this New
Yorker article written by Penelope Gilead, so her piece
ends. I think this is quite sweet,
actually. Yeah, she says the whole story
is draped, figuratively speaking and often actually in a Union
Jack, which the goons were among the first public figures to
treat as a beloved extinct object dead as a doornail, but
something Commemorated the feelings about patriotism are
both real and serial, both skeptical, and doubting their
way, of seeing the behavior of late Empire, Builders as a
mixture of sobriety endurance. And bashful arrogance was the
Forerunner of much of the best current humor in America.
As well as England, their film is delicately absurd and full of
sublime Falls from fantasy onto a trampoline of Common Sense
from which we bounce upward again.
Arrived and unbruised, except for laughing.
So, that's the best. A lovely.
Hmm, every review that. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's that it's not the greatest comedy film.
No, it's not off 1974. But no.
No, it's not. But again, as I think if that's
what you got with Spike was, I mean I used to hold queue up in
very high regard and but a lot of it doesn't work.
No, it's very very hit and miss. And that's what I say this film.
We see It already it's like if Q was made into a film, this is
what this is, what it would be like, it's hit and miss now.
And that, but as I say, if you go in expecting that, Then, you
know, you won't be disappointed cause you did.
You know, if you watch queue you'll be, you'll probably enjoy
this. I think.
So, any goons fan, any Spike Milligan fan?
Any British comedy fan really from of that period?
Yeah. We'll get something out of this
for sure. Yeah.
And if the music's great, there's some really funny
scenes, I would say definitely watch it.
And the DVD, you know, for a fiver, you pick up the DVD, it's
got a great commentary as well. There's just there's a lot to To
it and I would I would very much recommend that people.
Yes out. Yeah.
And if you don't put your hands in your pocket it's readily
available on YouTube. I understand, I hope the
inhabitants of the beautiful city of Dundee.
Appreciate the Poetry by me some of them I will hope for let us
silent tear home. Dear remembrance of William, my
God. So Phil listen.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Now, how are things going with the, who's he podcast host?
We are, we are still going strong, I don't know when this
is when this is coming out, probably in november-december
time. So then only November, I think
so. But that's how I think we
should. We should have said goodbye to
Jodie. Whittaker is the doctor by then.
So that's what. We'll all asks, who fans are
gearing up for some people Actually, the back of us.
I'm at some art. It's been a very polarizing
periods of, of the series, but I think that that's that's just
fandom in general really. So this you're either in one
camp or the other. Really.
And that's it. So but that would be silver soon
as you know, I've dipped my toe into Doctor Who the Doctor Who
Lake. Yes yes.
Whomp pop-up only only having watched the Series William
Hartnell Doctor, Who? Yes, because you can actually
communicate your come on my podcast.
Look at Planet of the Giants, didn't you?
That's right. Yeah, yes.
And, and everything else about Doctor Who I really only know,
just through secondhand or third hand through people like
yourself and other contributors to this podcast and people that
I know and Twitter and friends of mine.
And yeah, I mean, I sort of, you know, you cannot fail to be
exposed to the sum of the Say it.
Bonkers, speculation about what's going on a Doctor.
Who, and people complaining about Google is it seems to me
as an outsider that everyone's always complain about.
Whoever plays Doctor, Who, no matter who it is.
Oh, gotcha. Yeah.
I fell for that.
That's going back. Right to its early days.
Yeah, really. Yeah.
Really has. I think you can.
You can I think I did. I did pick up some letters
written. Sue the radio times when Tom
Baker turned into Peter Davison and yet if there was a lot of,
oh, yeah, this is great. It's got a, we got a younger
actor, looking forward to see what happens.
Then, another people was it was outright hatred.
Well, that even seen seen people that are the poor men, they even
doing anything that is outright hatred for him.
I mean, it goes back years ago and no doubt it happens when
Patrick troughton took on the role as well.
It's it's always been there but I've never know.
Known a show like it to polarize its own Fanta.
Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy.
Absolutely crazy. But that's more like the guns
are. I've never come across it with
with, with the guns, or Milligan sellers cecum.
Number seems to be polarized about any of it.
Well, as we know at one point, been teen was lined up to be the
doctor, wasn't he? He was.
Yeah. And I could have seen In that I
could have seen that of the reorder words of the father.
There was some. Yeah, it's after I think it's
before Who's been after before after partway think it was
before /, I think it was after troughton's, it was going to be
what what the role approach we took.
If you like yeah. Brian blessed, always maintains
that he was in line to play the role of the doctor after William
Hartnell. Right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Beggars. Belief that one place.
No. There was Ron Moody was lined up
to play the doctor at one more was touted use the same are
called benteen Charles hall tree.
Richard Richard. Yeah, I think John Baron CJ from
ready all cheering? Yeah, I didn't get where I am
today. Yeah, Alex.
Occasions. Because obviously, I mean, yeah,
that goes without saying, exactly.
Even if you didn't know that, you'd think surely to God, the
belden's been asked at least. Yes.
Yeah. Surely, exactly.
Exactly. So it's a great so Phillip.
So yeah that's it feels podcast who see which is available
everywhere. You get your podcasts.
Yes. Indeed indeed and wonderful to
have you on again Phil I really enjoyed that.
That's I like that was that was great.
It really was. And and who knows?
Maybe one day we will meet again on this podcast indeed.
Thanks again to fill. Thank you for listening, take
care of yourselves, see you next time.
Bye. Maybe one day we will meet again
on this podcast indeed. Thanks again to fill.
Thank you for listening, take care of yourselves, see you next
time. Bye.