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Hello and welcome to Goon Pod. 
It's an extra long show This 

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week. 
Both myself and friend of the 

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show Chris Diamond spent a 
thoroughly enjoyable couple of 

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hours chatting to Nick Emery, 
son of Dick Emery. 

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Dick Emery, of course, who looms
quite large in Goon Law. 

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Nick had such a lot of 
interesting stuff to say and was

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so generous with his time. 
And what follows on the other 

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side of this music is basically 
three men having a bloody good 

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chat about one of Britain's 
greatest post war comedians who 

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sadly died 40 years ago this 
year. 

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And I hope you enjoy it. 
Obviously, you know, I'm an 

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admirer of your father, but I I 
felt it. 

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It might be a good idea to get 
someone on as well who's much 

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more of an authority than me, 
you know, on the career of Dick 

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Emery. 
Someone who who knows his Emory 

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onions and yeah, I thought both 
myself and Chris we would you 

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know very keen to speak with you
and and just talk about your 

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dad's career. 
Obviously this this shows 

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ostensibly about the goons and 
it's both yeah, collectively and

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individually. 
But it's evolved or it's 

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developed over the last couple 
of years and it's now it's it's 

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one in which we sort of embrace 
all comedy. 

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It's generally of a certain 
vintage but not exclusively you 

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know and and whatever the topic 
of the week is and it has to 

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have a a goon connection as a 
starting point you know Seller's

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film or or whatnot. 
Very rarely will we not straight

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off the path and talk about 
other people who make us laugh. 

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And it's it's impossible to talk
about the goons anyway without 

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bringing in all the other people
in. 

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Comedy Who? 
Who were in their orbit. 

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So last week, for example, we 
were talking about not Chris and

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I, but myself and a guest were 
talking about the wrong of the 

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law from. 1963 yeah, yes. 
And there's so many. 

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I mean, quite apart from the 
fact that your old man's in it 

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briefly. 
Yeah, very briefly. 

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You had a cameo. 
Yes. 

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Yeah. 
On the job, I believe, is the 

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technical term directed by Cliff
Owen, who obviously was the 

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director of You Are Awful and 
and one of the writers was John 

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Warren, who wrote a lot for your
dad. 

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So. 
So yeah, so the conversation. 

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I mean, you know, there's never 
any set structure to these 

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podcasts. 
The, the the chats kind of range

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hit her in yon. 
It's just kind of I wanted the 

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starting point to be your dad's 
collaborations with the Goons 

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and I include Benting in that, 
of course. 

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But then, yeah, I'd like to 
broaden the conversation to talk

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about his career as a whole. 
So that's fine. 

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So really. 
Appreciate you leave. 

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And I'll just gently follow 
along. 

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OK. 
All right, Dick appeared in in 

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six goon shows in Series 3, but 
he alternated with Graham Stark 

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when Spike was ill. 
Yes. 

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And then there's this. 
There's the first show of Series

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8 called Spawn. 
Harry was off because I think he

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had a throat. 
Infection, yeah. 

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Evening Inspector at the New 
Type Year Happy New Year with 

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the Conservatives in. 
I'll tell him to move on. 

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Come on there. 
Move along there. 

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And of course then he he 
famously appeared in the case of

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the muck and his battle horn he 
did was Spike and Peter. 

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Because Seacom couldn't do it. 
I think it was contractual. 

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There was a lot of things, like 
when they did the Ying Tong 

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song. 
I don't think Harry could sing 

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on that. 
No yet to talk. 

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He had to talk. 
He was not allowed to because of

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his contract. 
He was not allowed to sing. 

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He could blow raspberries in the
background, but that was it. 

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That was a sum total of his 
singing. 

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It wasn't till a lot later was 
he allowed to. 

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I think it was one of the Lps. 
Later on they did. 

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I think they revisited a lot of 
the stuff and they he was he 

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could sing on those slightly so,
so did because you would have 

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been too young to have heard. 
The I was, I mean, I've well, 

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yes and no. 
I mean we did listen to them 

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when I was about because I was 
born in 1954, so it was in the 

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middle of their fame, as it 
were. 

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And so my mum, it was sort of. 
That required listening at the 

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time, so I sort of tuned into it
and I vaguely aware of listening

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to them and I do remember the 
then watching things like the 

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Telegoons when it came out and 
all that sort of stuff. 

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And I was aware of them. 
I don't know why I was aware of 

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them, but I was. 
You also have to remember at the

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time that my mother was quite 
close to June Milligan and we 

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used to go up to their house. 
And in fact, one time June, 

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myself, Sean and Laura went on 
holiday to Cornwall. 

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To north Cornwall. 
I can't remember where. 

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I think it was Perrin Paul's, 
and I think we did go down in an

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old car, which I think was known
as old men. 

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That's right. 
Yeah. 

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And Sean and I once when they 
were living up in North London 

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somewhere I can't remember where
and. 

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Sean and I conducted a little 
experiment, as children do, 

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because we'd noticed that if you
drop a drop of water on 

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something, it it stays a drop of
water and stands above 

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everything, doesn't immediately 
flow off. 

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So we thought we could create a 
lake on a table top, and so we 

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we trotted down. 
Our mother's respective mothers 

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were having a chat in the 
kitchen and we trotted down. 

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And got can we have a cup of 
water, Mummy, please? 

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Yes, of course you can, darling.
And off we trotted with it and 

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poured it on this table top and 
of course it ran off the edges. 

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So we went down thinking, no, 
no, no, this, this, this will 

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work eventually. 
And we went downstairs and got 

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another cup of water and of 
course it ran off. 

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And then I think they noticed a 
sort of damp patch on the 

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ceiling. 
Our scientific experiment ended,

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I think, with a little bit of a 
shouting at God. 

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We must have been about four or 
five. 

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Well, that's interesting cuz 
June exits the scene as it were 

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in was it late, the late 50s 
Chris? 

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Very late 50s. 
Yeah, I think. 

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Yeah, she married a Covent 
Garden Porter. 

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Yeah, there's always been a bit 
of a mystery over. 

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Not mystery as such, but it 
never really got spoke about the

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the circumstances surrounding 
the departure. 

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I don't. 
I really don't know. 

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I mean, the person who might 
have known a bit more about it 

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would be my late mother, but I 
know that that that spike got 

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custody of the two children, 
then three children. 

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Sean, Laura and Cela. 
Yes. 

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Cuz Jane came along later. 
Yes, I know that. 

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I think that to be honest, I'm 
not sure they were that 

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compatible, but I wouldn't know.
Spike in June. 

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Spike in June? 
Yeah, this was Spike compatible 

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with many people? 
Really. 

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Well, yes, He had his moments, 
didn't he? 

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He was a very well, I think it. 
I think obviously it's well 

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documented that his mental state
after the Second World War was 

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not brilliant and he'd left him 
with sort of with almost like 

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manic depression. 
Yeah, unresolved PTSD, I would 

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think, and all sorts of other 
things. 

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But when, when, when Dick and 
Graham start were alternating 

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shows in Series 3. 
That's because Spike was in 

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hospital with the. 
That's right with the mentor. 

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That's right. 
And of course there was the 

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death of Larry Stevens, which 
put put all the load back on 

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Spike, the script writing, 
which, you know Stevens 

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committed suicide, didn't they? 
No. 

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No, it was. 
He had what he had. 

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The doctor that examined him 
for. 

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He was applying for a mortgage. 
He had to go for medical as part

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of this. 
And the doctor that examined him

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said he'd never seen such an 
extreme case of hypertension. 

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Oh God, and basically said 
you've got a year to live. 

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Oh, right. 
Oh, Lord, yeah. 

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Oh dear. 
So, so Nick. 

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Yeah. 
How how close were you there for

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with the with all the families 
and the friends of all the good 

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people? 
I mean, were you all in the sort

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of friendly Mellie? 
We were, we were, we were to a 

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point. 
And then Dad. 

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Dad, of course, had, if you 
don't know the story, he had 

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five wives and my mother was 
wife #3. 

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I mean #3 your time is up. 
Anyway. 

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His He was flitting throughout 
from the time I was born because

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he met his fourth wife around 
about the time I was born and 

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was having a torrid affair with 
her. 

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In the background. 
And also my mother. 

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I know you have to understand 
that up until at the time I was 

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in fact a year after I was born,
my parents hadn't married and 

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they married so that I could 
officially have a father, right?

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So yes, I was responsible for a 
marriage, which is a hell of a 

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responsibility for A. 
A child. 

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Less so. 
Just over one year old, so I had

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to take that one on the chin. 
Anyway, so we had this strange 

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time. 
My mother was still working. 

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She worked in show business. 
She was. 

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She'd been a dancer, then a 
singer, comedian, actress, and 

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then she. 
We we, we lived in the center of

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London and she had a lot of 
friends in show business, 

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including, you know, the wives. 
Well, certainly Milligan's wife.

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I don't think we were that 
close. 

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In fact, I don't think we had 
any dealings with Ann Sellers. 

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I think that was another that 
was a separate issue. 

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I never heard my mother refer to
Ann Sellers at all. 

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What about Peter? 
Was Peter ever at your house or?

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Well, Peter and Dad were 
friends, which led to the wrong 

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arm of the law and his cameo 
appearance. 

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They they they'd all come from 
the same sort of background. 

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They've known each other after 
the war and they'd sort of 

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followed each other about and 
that did hang around. 

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I mean, the the West End of 
London was full of these guys 

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who'd just come out of the 
military like Benteen, like 

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Sellers, like Milligan and like 
Secom all come out of the 

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services. 
Tony Hancock. 

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Who Dad was great buddies with 
for a while and they were all 

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hanging around the same sort of 
things and they were all 

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following each other in and out 
of theaters and stuff like that 

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while trying to build their 
careers. 

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And I think Benteen appeared at 
the windmill. 

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00:13:54,530 --> 00:13:56,530
I can't remember. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Doing his incredible cheer act. 
That's right. 

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00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:01,730
Yeah. 
What was it called? 

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00:14:01,730 --> 00:14:03,370
Chris? 
Was it Sherwood and Forest? 

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But he did the, you know, that 
sort of professor of pure heart,

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sheer back thing. 
Yes, he did. 

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00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:18,870
With the wild hair and the mad 
eyes and everything like that. 

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00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:20,590
I have seen a bit of footage of 
it. 

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It was quite bizarre, quite a 
bizarre act. 

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Very imaginative. 
It worked its way into the end 

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of the down among the said men. 
Yeah. 

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00:14:32,070 --> 00:14:35,510
Yes. 
And then I think he he suddenly 

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00:14:35,510 --> 00:14:38,070
realized that three were better 
than four. 

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00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:44,550
I think too there were tensions 
between him and Milligan over 

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script writing. 
And I think that led to a few 

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arguments here and there. 
So I think he realized, you 

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know, I mean the the classic 
lineups of three, you know, 

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there there were four Marx 
Brothers. 

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It was the three that were 
remembered. 

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Yeah, more than when they had 
Zepper. 

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And I think he realized that 
possibly this wasn't, this could

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blow up in his face. 
And I think he realized that it 

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was, it was succeeding. 
I mean, Milligan and Sellers had

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this great rapport. 
It would be hard to believe. 

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00:15:30,980 --> 00:15:35,620
In retrospect, that the two 
people like Milligan and Benteen

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who are so, you know, 
explosively creative, but also 

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very aware of what they had to 
do to be so creative, you know, 

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there are planets that couldn't 
be in orbit together really, 

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when you think of it. 
Well, that's right. 

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00:15:50,940 --> 00:15:53,740
And I think that's most probably
why I sell it. 

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00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:55,740
Sorry. 
I've got the right character, 

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00:15:55,740 --> 00:15:58,340
the right person. 
A minute Benteen was. 

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Well aware. 
I think it was acutely aware and

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it was a highly intelligent man 
and a lot more stable than 

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Milligan mentally. 
And realized that they weren't 

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00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:23,540
getting on like they should and 
that it could cause friction. 

228
00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:27,260
And I would imagine there were 
arguments over characters over 

229
00:16:27,260 --> 00:16:29,930
character development. 
And things like that. 

230
00:16:29,930 --> 00:16:34,850
And maybe that's why it was more
of a success after Bente left. 

231
00:16:36,130 --> 00:16:41,050
It was more of a play than a 
series of sketches. 

232
00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:47,810
So you had a set storyline, you 
had a very well, you had a plot.

233
00:16:48,490 --> 00:16:50,530
I don't know if you could call 
it a storyline. 

234
00:16:51,610 --> 00:16:54,210
You had a start and a point you 
were aiming for. 

235
00:16:56,450 --> 00:17:00,890
After that you had a rather. 
Maladjusted compass to get you 

236
00:17:00,890 --> 00:17:05,890
there. 
Yeah, well it blossomed from 54 

237
00:17:05,890 --> 00:17:08,210
onwards was. 
The period. 

238
00:17:08,490 --> 00:17:09,450
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

239
00:17:10,770 --> 00:17:14,010
When your dad, sort of when your
dad was in the Good Show and I 

240
00:17:14,130 --> 00:17:18,250
just wonder, I've seen 
interviews with him later on in 

241
00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:23,250
his life and especially he makes
reference to it in this that 

242
00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:25,810
spotlight program that was made 
just before he passed away that 

243
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:28,790
was never shown. 
But he only ever seems to 

244
00:17:28,790 --> 00:17:33,510
mention the good shows he took 
part in, in a very not 

245
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:37,310
dismissively, but not as, not as
a great standout. 

246
00:17:38,030 --> 00:17:40,430
You know, interest, you know, 
great thing that he ever did it.

247
00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:42,910
Was it something that mattered 
to him? 

248
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:47,150
I think what it was, I think, I 
think there's a sort of thing 

249
00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:50,110
where, you know, it's like you 
see people who've been like 

250
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:53,750
great musicians, great Rocky 
musicians who've taken past a 

251
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:56,720
fantastic. 
Obsession or something. 

252
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,880
And they write it off as the 
smallest part of their life 

253
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,920
ever. 
And you think, how can you put 

254
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,080
it like that? 
You know? 

255
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,760
And I mean, for years I didn't 
realize it being in the goons. 

256
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,360
And then I then I found sort of 
things where he was talking 

257
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:19,880
about himself as the goon that 
got away in his promos at times.

258
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,120
And I thought, well, that's 
interesting. 

259
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,040
Why would that be? 
And then my mother said, Oh yes,

260
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,110
he was in the goons, you know. 
But you know, I mean, then he 

261
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:30,190
kept a lot of things from me. 
You know, the fact that he did 

262
00:18:31,030 --> 00:18:34,510
some voiceovers for Yellow 
Submarine, he kept that from me 

263
00:18:34,510 --> 00:18:36,630
for years. 
I never realized. 

264
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:38,790
Really. 
Really. 

265
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:40,750
Wow. 
That's that's incredible. 

266
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:44,670
Have you heard the, have you 
heard the the Yellow Submarine 

267
00:18:44,670 --> 00:18:45,670
outtake? 
Where? 

268
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:49,750
Where your dad as Jeremy the 
Jeremy boob. 

269
00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:54,250
Hello, Jeremy Boop, he sings. 
He sings the first verse of Lucy

270
00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:55,890
in the Sky with Diamonds Have. 
You heard? 

271
00:18:55,890 --> 00:19:05,050
No. 
Picture yourself just out 

272
00:19:05,610 --> 00:19:13,050
nuclear fission with library 
cards and the metaphor skies. 

273
00:19:15,170 --> 00:19:21,540
Somebody quotes you, you read. 
From the source book, a concept 

274
00:19:21,540 --> 00:19:37,580
with microscope eyes. 
It was a mix and Lenin's vocals 

275
00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:45,100
were mixed out and your dad's 
dad, as Jeremy speaks or sings, 

276
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:48,510
sort of improvised first verse. 
Yes. 

277
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:51,150
And then and I think it was due 
to be in the film and Lennon 

278
00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:54,190
vetoed it because he said he 
just didn't. 

279
00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:56,990
Well, I think he just either he 
didn't like it or he didn't want

280
00:19:56,990 --> 00:20:00,310
to have to share a songwriting 
credit, because obviously Emery 

281
00:20:00,310 --> 00:20:02,070
would have had some claim on 
that. 

282
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:04,670
Yeah, yeah. 
He told it because he was awful.

283
00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:08,870
Yeah. 
More than likely, yes. 

284
00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:11,750
But I didn't, you know, there's 
something I didn't realize. 

285
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:14,230
And he, you know, they were felt
there's. 

286
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,480
I come across snatches of films 
and things like that, or bits of

287
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,600
films, and I suddenly realized 
he did more film work than I 

288
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,720
ever realized was in the He's in
the Fast lady. 

289
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,120
He's in the fast lady. 
He was also in one about a 

290
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:37,280
Searchlight crew and I'm trying 
to think what that's called 

291
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,680
light up the sky or something 
like that. 

292
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,980
The big job And of course. 
And he was in the big job with 

293
00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:48,660
Sir James and Jones. 
Well, that was virtually a carry

294
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:50,980
on film. 
Yes, yes. 

295
00:20:51,580 --> 00:20:58,180
In all but name and. 
There's a film, Sorry to cut in.

296
00:20:58,220 --> 00:21:02,500
There's a film which intrigues 
me tremendously called Find the 

297
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,180
Lady. 
Ah. 

298
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:10,260
Yes, which I've never seen. 
No done with Peter Cook and John

299
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:12,390
Candy. 
And Mickey Rooney? 

300
00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:19,270
What a night that was. 
Yes, they had a drunken evening 

301
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:22,670
with Peter Cook. 
Very drunken. 

302
00:21:22,670 --> 00:21:25,830
And I did hear the tape. 
God knows what's happened to 

303
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:28,790
that. 
But it him and Peter Cook doing 

304
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:32,590
a Derek and Clive. 
No, really. 

305
00:21:32,590 --> 00:21:33,790
Yes. 
And it's. 

306
00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:41,480
I mean it's. 
I don't think I can discuss the 

307
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,720
content. 
Blimey. 

308
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,920
But it was fascinating. 
Fascinating. 

309
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720
Would your dad have been fully 
comfortable doing that sort of 

310
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:52,680
thing? 
Yeah. 

311
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:58,480
I mean, he would have, actually.
And he enjoyed Cook's company. 

312
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,080
He enjoyed Mickey Rooney's 
company. 

313
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,480
I don't know about John Candy, 
but the film was dire. 

314
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,680
Dad always hoped that every copy
of it had been burned. 

315
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:11,510
All he said it was awful, 
Absolutely. 

316
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:14,190
The film itself was awful. 
He loved working on it, but the 

317
00:22:14,190 --> 00:22:16,590
film itself was awful. 
You'd better get out of here 

318
00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:18,390
before the police arrive. 
Forget it. 

319
00:22:19,390 --> 00:22:21,030
I take him both sides of the 
action. 

320
00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:22,790
I can second guess the police 
better than you. 

321
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:24,990
You're too smart for your own 
good. 

322
00:22:25,150 --> 00:22:28,190
It's very simple. 
I merely revert to my alter ego,

323
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:31,390
Hugo Steinmetz, the perfect 
gentleman's secretary, Sir. 

324
00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:34,310
I think I made a mistake getting
into this. 

325
00:22:34,550 --> 00:22:37,710
He did another one where he 
played uh. 

326
00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:42,410
He, he was rather lecherous man 
in that. 

327
00:22:42,970 --> 00:22:50,130
And that was called Baby Love, 
which was a strange, strange, 

328
00:22:50,130 --> 00:22:55,930
strange 1960s film. 
He appeared, I think, in a 

329
00:22:55,930 --> 00:22:59,690
Norman Wisdom film as a drunk at
a party. 

330
00:23:03,250 --> 00:23:04,930
I'm trying to think what else he
was in. 

331
00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:06,810
Well, what? 
What did you think? 

332
00:23:06,850 --> 00:23:09,410
Though? 
I'm fascinated to know this. 

333
00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:11,410
What did he think of who you 
are? 

334
00:23:11,410 --> 00:23:15,450
Awful. 
He hoped for great things from 

335
00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:17,050
it in America. 
Yeah. 

336
00:23:18,890 --> 00:23:23,210
America didn't understand it at 
all. 

337
00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:30,770
He was very pleased with the 
result when it was shown here. 

338
00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:34,260
But I think he was very 
disappointed with the reaction 

339
00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:37,300
he got from America. 
And of course it never led to 

340
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:43,940
any other film because in effect
it was mostly a rehash of all 

341
00:23:43,940 --> 00:23:50,180
his, all his television 
characters, and it was not 

342
00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:51,420
anything else. 
You see. 

343
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:55,860
He would have, I think, and I'm 
fairly certain he would agree, 

344
00:23:55,860 --> 00:23:58,700
he would have made a great 
character actor in it, you know,

345
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:02,640
away from. 
The 30 minute Dick Emery show 

346
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,640
with the vox pop at the 
beginning and all the history. 

347
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,880
And in fact, his last two series
were close to what he wanted to 

348
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,960
do. 
Yeah, those were the sort of his

349
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,210
aspiration, wasn't it? 
The sort of Jack of diamonds 

350
00:24:17,210 --> 00:24:20,730
and. 
Jack of Diamonds, Legacy of 

351
00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:22,810
Murder. 
Yeah, perhaps I've got. 

352
00:24:22,930 --> 00:24:26,010
I'm just remembered on somewhere
on my desk next to me. 

353
00:24:26,010 --> 00:24:29,690
I've got two ticket stubs, one 
from each of those. 

354
00:24:29,690 --> 00:24:32,730
When we went to see this 
screening because it was filmed 

355
00:24:32,930 --> 00:24:35,170
and then screened in front of 
the live audience. 

356
00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:38,890
Yeah. 
But this case, I'm pleased to 

357
00:24:38,890 --> 00:24:41,570
hear that he likes You're Awful 
because I love the. 

358
00:24:41,610 --> 00:24:44,210
Yeah, I do. 
Yeah. 

359
00:24:44,970 --> 00:24:47,570
And and I think, I think, 
especially that I was saying to 

360
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:51,410
Tyler earlier, I think, I think 
what I like about it, I suppose,

361
00:24:51,530 --> 00:24:53,290
I mean, I like sitcom films 
anyway. 

362
00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:57,130
I'm unusual in that respect. 
But but while everybody else was

363
00:24:57,130 --> 00:25:01,330
turning out films of, you know, 
the film of a sitcom, whether it

364
00:25:01,330 --> 00:25:05,330
was Dad's Army or man, about 
those, You're Awful is a film. 

365
00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:06,570
It's an actual. 
Film it is a. 

366
00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:11,090
Film and it's it's well made. 
It's great. 

367
00:25:11,090 --> 00:25:13,210
It's great people and it's well 
acted. 

368
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,120
Yeah, it's good. 
Great music. 

369
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,840
Yes, Paddy Combs and Ronald 
Fraser. 

370
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,720
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, go ahead. 

371
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,720
Yeah, it's just Louie Mansi 
things in there somewhere. 

372
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,520
That's right. 
He was in it. 

373
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,840
Norman. 
Bert, I think isn't it is the 

374
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:33,960
yes. 
Just the Darren Nesbitt. 

375
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,080
He's the. 
Darren Nesbitt. 

376
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,160
Yes, Sabbath. 
Yeah. 

377
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,240
Sabbath, said Sabbath. 
Sorry, William Franklin. 

378
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,040
Lisa, go down. 
Yes, I I I remember going down. 

379
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,520
I saw a couple of days when he 
was filming up by 1 outside of 

380
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,880
Buckingham Palace, which was at 
the beginning because they 

381
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,040
couldn't film inside the royal 
gallery. 

382
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,840
That was done in the studio, but
the bit where they run from the 

383
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,360
entrance they shot out of a a 
hotel room or or a room 

384
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,400
somewhere nearby to get them 
running across the street. 

385
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,360
Because the the palace would not
let them anywhere in film on 

386
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:16,760
their property. 
Well. 

387
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,000
So they filmed them from there 
and they had them running across

388
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,360
the street, then down a little 
alley, and that was done in 

389
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:27,400
Victoria, obviously. 
And then there was. 

390
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,280
I saw the bit when they were 
outside filming. 

391
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,360
Outside. 
Ones with ones with prison. 

392
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,080
Oh, yes, of course, yeah. 
So yeah, it was a it was a happy

393
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,280
film. 
Yeah. 

394
00:26:38,290 --> 00:26:42,210
I think the problem was that 
films at that time fell into 

395
00:26:42,210 --> 00:26:47,850
this because, I mean, they all 
sort of did them. 

396
00:26:47,850 --> 00:26:53,090
I mean, there was. 
You had blessed this house, 

397
00:26:53,610 --> 00:26:58,090
which was Sid James's TV show. 
Yes, I did the poster of it on 

398
00:26:58,090 --> 00:27:02,210
my very wall where I'm sat. 
Yeah, and. 

399
00:27:02,590 --> 00:27:04,990
And that followed very much the 
TV show. 

400
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:07,830
It was just really a very long 
episode of the TV show. 

401
00:27:08,030 --> 00:27:09,110
Yes, it was. 
Yeah. 

402
00:27:10,790 --> 00:27:13,590
With Robin Esquith instead of 
Robin Stewart? 

403
00:27:13,710 --> 00:27:17,990
Absolutely. 
But you're awful. 

404
00:27:18,190 --> 00:27:22,990
I suppose this has got something
in common with the with Hancock,

405
00:27:22,990 --> 00:27:26,070
because of course he didn't. 
He made a couple of films, but 

406
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:28,710
they were adaptations of 
Hancock's Half Hour. 

407
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:33,420
They were films. 
Yeah, but Hancock had fallen out

408
00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:35,380
with Golden and Simpson by that 
time. 

409
00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:39,500
Yeah, but he did. 
Golden Simpson wrote The Rebel. 

410
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:42,300
Yes, that's right. 
It was The Rebel. 

411
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:44,420
Then he fell out with them for 
the next one. 

412
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:51,220
That's right, Philip. 
The punch and doody man, Yes, 

413
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:53,060
Yeah. 
The punch and judiment, yeah. 

414
00:27:53,580 --> 00:27:55,820
Yeah, He fell out. 
They they'd fallen out. 

415
00:27:55,820 --> 00:27:56,260
He. 
He. 

416
00:27:58,790 --> 00:28:02,910
Yes, and Dad always said that 
Hancock was mistaken to fall out

417
00:28:02,910 --> 00:28:03,270
with them. 
Oh. 

418
00:28:03,910 --> 00:28:05,110
Yes. 
Huge. 

419
00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:11,430
Palpable, yeah. 
He's then started getting the 

420
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:18,750
idea that he was greater than 
the people around him, which was

421
00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:22,150
very sad. 
I mean, Dad worked on his TV 

422
00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:26,470
shows a couple of times and they
was, you can see them. 

423
00:28:27,810 --> 00:28:31,530
Because they were shot live, 
almost in tears, with laughter. 

424
00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:38,250
Oh yes, the fantastic scene and 
how to win friends and influence

425
00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:41,970
people where he's the postman. 
That's right where he's He's 

426
00:28:42,770 --> 00:28:47,010
trying to post his hundreds of 
entries for competitions and 

427
00:28:47,010 --> 00:28:54,650
your dad is saying yes. 
He's not posted if you. 

428
00:28:54,650 --> 00:28:57,960
Look at that scene. 
They can't make eye contact. 

429
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,400
If you look at it, I think Dad's
looking at the floor because he 

430
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:10,640
can't look at angle at all. 415 
last collection finished. 

431
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,320
But I got another 200 letters. 
Oppose. 

432
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,920
Sorry. 
Next collection. 8:00 tomorrow 

433
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,080
morning. 
That's no good. 

434
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,480
They got to be there by tomorrow
morning. 

435
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,640
There's no concern of man. 
Open that door. 

436
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,700
No. 
I demand that you take my 

437
00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:24,140
letters. 
You're too late. 

438
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:26,980
Now stand on one side, please. 
I'm not going that you take my 

439
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:29,340
letters. 
Do you realize what you're 

440
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:34,220
doing? 
You are obstructing a person in 

441
00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:38,900
the execution of his duty. 
You are upholding and 

442
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:40,780
obstructing her medicines. 
Male. 

443
00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:48,140
Whatever you said, I am not. 
Are you going to take my letters

444
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:49,540
or are you not? 
I am not pretty. 

445
00:29:49,580 --> 00:29:50,740
Well, then, give me back those 
keys. 

446
00:29:50,740 --> 00:29:51,740
Not unless you collect my 
letters. 

447
00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:55,140
Yeah, you don't take a Marshall.
Drop them in the box. 

448
00:29:55,740 --> 00:29:56,860
Those keys are government 
property. 

449
00:29:56,980 --> 00:30:01,060
Not a step further. 
They will. 

450
00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:03,060
I'll collect you later. 
That's better. 

451
00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:05,740
Then. 
Can I have my keys, please? 

452
00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:12,340
Certainly. 
Come on, open the door. 

453
00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:14,820
I can't. 
You've got the keys. 

454
00:30:16,020 --> 00:30:18,980
I'll get a fishing rod then. 
It's against all rules and 

455
00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:21,340
regulations and in fishing rods 
through government. 

456
00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:29,190
Heels and people put you around 
there and get it out and get it 

457
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:30,870
stuck like yours. 
They should kill you. 

458
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:36,230
And it was the same, funnily 
enough, when they did the 

459
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:39,710
Muckanese battle horn, there's a
scene near the end where they go

460
00:30:39,710 --> 00:30:41,350
to the nightclub. 
Yes, yeah. 

461
00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:43,870
Yeah. 
And there's the sliding little 

462
00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:49,270
hatch in the door, and they shot
that. 

463
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:56,360
Over and over again and again, 
both inveterate gigglers would 

464
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:02,960
just look at each other and they
were just the thing would slide 

465
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,640
back and they were in tears and 
they they did God knows how many

466
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,240
times till they got it to the 
point where they could actually 

467
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,800
look at each other and laugh 
themselves out of it. 

468
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,080
I think that was the first ever 
film. 

469
00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:23,930
Piece with Lamp Wick in in 
Macanese Battle Horn. 

470
00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:28,810
Well, here's the thing now. 
I was just I've been voicing 

471
00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:31,170
this earlier on in private. 
Now I have a theory about lamp 

472
00:31:31,170 --> 00:31:34,690
Wick and where it might touch 
upon the goons. 

473
00:31:35,410 --> 00:31:38,850
Yeah. 
So and again in a little bit of 

474
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:43,050
an interview or a spoken piece 
that that where he was talking 

475
00:31:43,050 --> 00:31:46,730
about when they were in the gang
shows, Ralph Reader's gang shows

476
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:50,270
and of course, Sellers was in 
the gang shows, yeah. 

477
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:53,670
And he makes mention of when 
they were in a particular 

478
00:31:53,670 --> 00:31:57,390
theater. 
And there was Carpenter. 

479
00:31:58,190 --> 00:32:01,750
Burt Dent, Burt Dent, Actually, 
I thought I couldn't remember 

480
00:32:01,750 --> 00:32:02,910
his first name. 
Burt Dent. 

481
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:07,830
And I know. 
So as you know, he says, that 

482
00:32:08,030 --> 00:32:10,990
that was the sort of lamp, wig 
voice, you know, of what you 

483
00:32:10,990 --> 00:32:12,190
know. 
Well, that's where they got, 

484
00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:15,150
yeah. 
But you see, they all, they all 

485
00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:16,950
had an old man character. 
Yeah. 

486
00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:22,300
So my hypothesis is, yeah, good 
inside of this is that that's 

487
00:32:22,300 --> 00:32:24,660
where William Cobblers comes 
from. 

488
00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:29,860
Yes, it was all, but you see, 
they all had this thing about 

489
00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:32,860
it. 
You see, it's that sort of thing

490
00:32:32,860 --> 00:32:35,740
about the young people taking 
the Mick out of the older 

491
00:32:35,740 --> 00:32:39,020
people. 
And so that was where that came 

492
00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:41,540
from. 
And someone who was at that time

493
00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:46,700
when the BBC was full of people 
with Received Pronunciation. 

494
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:54,850
And you know the BBC and it was 
all jolly fine and lovely and so

495
00:32:54,930 --> 00:32:59,930
someone who was working class, I
mean if you listen to any of the

496
00:32:59,930 --> 00:33:04,490
Vox Pops on radio from that 
time, all the film stuff is, is 

497
00:33:05,090 --> 00:33:07,850
there's usually a very well 
spoken interviewer. 

498
00:33:08,650 --> 00:33:11,650
And now tell me, what do you 
think of the current situation 

499
00:33:12,050 --> 00:33:15,920
in Suez? 
And someone go, whoa, I think, 

500
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,680
you know I don't think we should
be near at all and things like 

501
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,400
that, you know. 
But they all have no mind. 

502
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,880
Character. 
But I love it. 

503
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,560
I love. 
Yeah, I just love the idea of 

504
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,240
Lamp Wick. 
And William Cobb was being 

505
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,120
sprung from the same place. 
Yes, you know what? 

506
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,720
Your dad and sailors at the 
same. 

507
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,440
Time. 
You know. 

508
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,000
Yeah, I think, I I'm not sure if
that happened, but they 

509
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,400
certainly would have heard 
stagehands, they would have 

510
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,760
heard people like that around 
and that these, I mean sellers 

511
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,720
and were people who were 
observed. 

512
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:57,320
They observed people's 
mannerisms completely and they 

513
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,720
would take on and look at how 
someone stood and that they they

514
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,880
would move into that character. 
Footlessly because they thought,

515
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,159
oh, that's how it works. 
Oh, that's right. 

516
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,120
And if you get that bit that way
and you do that, then you're in 

517
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,239
the character and you're there. 
Can you I'm. 

518
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,159
Sorry to be a pain. 
Just give me one moment. 

519
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:24,360
I'm sorry, one moment. 
We're going to expand in a 

520
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:31,719
minute this idea that just we 
both separately started to work 

521
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,489
up and I just happened to 
mention this to place this. 

522
00:34:34,530 --> 00:34:38,170
We were talking about this, the 
chronology. 

523
00:34:39,530 --> 00:34:43,409
Not even the chronology, but the
character of the traits of 

524
00:34:43,409 --> 00:34:46,969
sailors and your dad, they're so
similar. 

525
00:34:48,489 --> 00:34:52,290
They were very on such so many 
ways. 

526
00:34:52,650 --> 00:34:55,130
They were, you know, so 
hopefully we'll get to that in a

527
00:34:55,130 --> 00:34:58,850
wait a minute, because when I 
started to jot them all down, I 

528
00:34:58,850 --> 00:35:03,410
thought, this is really Unganny.
It was, yes, 6 degrees of 

529
00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:05,290
separation. 
It was very strange. 

530
00:35:05,410 --> 00:35:12,850
It was they. 
They had, yes, and they both had

531
00:35:12,850 --> 00:35:15,330
very driven. 
They both had very jealous 

532
00:35:15,330 --> 00:35:16,690
mothers. 
Yeah. 

533
00:35:18,490 --> 00:35:22,050
My grandmother was a force of 
nature and not necessarily for 

534
00:35:22,170 --> 00:35:23,970
the good. 
Well, we too. 

535
00:35:24,050 --> 00:35:25,890
Taylor comes back and we'll get 
into. 

536
00:35:26,330 --> 00:35:27,930
It all. 
Listen, listen, I'm back. 

537
00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:31,670
I'm sorry. 
I think it was Joel Morris who 

538
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:34,190
said that if you're waiting, if 
you're desperate for a delivery.

539
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:37,950
Right. 
Start recording a podcast? 

540
00:35:37,950 --> 00:35:41,750
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

541
00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:44,030
Sorry. 
So, yes, I picked up on the fact

542
00:35:44,030 --> 00:35:46,710
you're talking about the 
striking parallels with Sellers,

543
00:35:46,710 --> 00:35:49,150
even though your dad was 10 
years older than Sellers. 

544
00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:52,150
This amazing symmetry. 
Yeah. 

545
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:56,020
So we're just starting there. 
So let's start with you were 

546
00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:58,420
saying about their mothers, Cuz 
they were both. 

547
00:35:58,660 --> 00:35:59,580
Right. 
Well, yes. 

548
00:36:00,060 --> 00:36:02,500
They both had very powerful 
mothers. 

549
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:10,380
My grandparents, who also, 
strangely enough, weren't 

550
00:36:10,380 --> 00:36:13,300
married. 
I don't know if it's a family 

551
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:18,900
trait or not, but there you go. 
He both had been in show 

552
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:21,610
business. 
Both have been in show business.

553
00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:23,810
Both parents have been in show 
business. 

554
00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:32,970
So my grandparents were in the 
music on musicals were a musical

555
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:37,650
turn as an act, although they 
were a number one act when they 

556
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:40,850
were slightly more exalted than 
they were sailors. 

557
00:36:41,650 --> 00:36:47,910
Yeah, they toured a lot. 
My cousin who gets into the 

558
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:53,750
genealogy a lot, she's found out
that they went to Australia and 

559
00:36:54,750 --> 00:37:00,030
toured there, so they must have 
toured various parts of the 

560
00:37:00,670 --> 00:37:06,830
empire, but by the time that Dad
reached the age of eight and he 

561
00:37:06,830 --> 00:37:12,030
must have toured with them at 
some point. 

562
00:37:13,330 --> 00:37:16,730
So actually, yeah, because that 
would be that would take him 

563
00:37:16,730 --> 00:37:21,570
19151923. 
So grandfather being in the 

564
00:37:21,570 --> 00:37:25,010
Second World in sorry, First 
World War did beg my pardon. 

565
00:37:25,410 --> 00:37:31,210
In the First World War I found 
reference to him in the Norfolk 

566
00:37:31,210 --> 00:37:36,290
Regiment, which was strange for 
a Londoner, except by I think 

567
00:37:36,290 --> 00:37:40,890
that time they were backfilling 
regiments after the Volunteers 

568
00:37:40,930 --> 00:37:43,920
had gone. 
To meet their maker. 

569
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,560
So then your dad and sailors 
then had the same experience of 

570
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,600
being children out on tour? 
Yeah, so then then grandfather 

571
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:03,080
left the the relationship became
toxic between him and and my 

572
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,040
grandmother and he said to who 
do you want to be with? 

573
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,400
Grandfather was quite a strong 
character, by the way. 

574
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,400
Not I've never got the feeling 
that seller's father was strong 

575
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,280
as a character. 
That grandfather certainly was, 

576
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:27,960
but I don't think a strong 
willed as grandmother and I 

577
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,920
think the ultimatum was put to 
him that do you want to be with 

578
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,320
your mother or me? 
And he went mother. 

579
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,800
And so grandfather just walked 
out the house and that was that.

580
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,880
Did he see him again after that?
Yeah. 

581
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,610
Oh yes, he did. 
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot 

582
00:38:43,610 --> 00:38:46,370
later on. 
But he was about 8:00 at the 

583
00:38:46,370 --> 00:38:52,170
time when that happened, and he 
didn't like school. 

584
00:38:52,770 --> 00:38:58,290
He wasn't academic at all, in 
fact. 

585
00:38:58,690 --> 00:39:02,410
I mean, I think he got out of 
school and I think one of his 

586
00:39:02,410 --> 00:39:04,530
first jobs was as a city 
messenger. 

587
00:39:05,980 --> 00:39:11,100
And once he started earning a 
wage, he then started taking 

588
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:14,100
care of his mother above 
everybody else. 

589
00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:22,020
And I always thought my mother 
said to me that he almost, he 

590
00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:26,540
might as well have married his 
mother because of the 

591
00:39:27,620 --> 00:39:31,060
relationship they had. 
So that's very similar to 

592
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:34,490
sellers. 
Yeah, they had the fascination, 

593
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:39,410
the growing fascination with 
like cars and mechanics and 

594
00:39:39,570 --> 00:39:42,970
gadgets and things. 
And and marriages had. 

595
00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:48,090
Marriages, yes, and lots of 
marriages as well, both in the 

596
00:39:48,090 --> 00:39:51,050
RAF. 
Both in the RAF Dad wanted to be

597
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:54,810
a pilot and they asked him all 
about trigonometry and things 

598
00:39:54,930 --> 00:40:00,330
like that and he he sort of fell
at the first hurdle, as it were.

599
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:09,960
He ended up doing his initial 
training in Scotland and then 

600
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:16,840
was sent to Arif, sent Evel in 
Cornwall and he married his 

601
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:24,720
first wife in Bodmin. 
He had prior to the war, he had 

602
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,080
been undergoing opera training. 
That's right. 

603
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,320
Yes, he was supposed to be 
going. 

604
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,590
Totally wasn't he. 
He was and he was. 

605
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:36,470
It was all set up and then war 
broke out. 

606
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:39,550
Mussolini decided that he was 
going to be on Hitler's side and

607
00:40:39,550 --> 00:40:42,510
that was that. 
Yeah, so then they were both in 

608
00:40:42,510 --> 00:40:45,590
the RAF, they were both in gang 
shows, yes. 

609
00:40:45,590 --> 00:40:48,070
So that just need to pause a bit
on the gang show bit. 

610
00:40:48,070 --> 00:40:49,710
It's how he got in the gang 
show. 

611
00:40:50,070 --> 00:40:57,070
Yeah, And the RAF in their 
infinite wisdom, messed up his 

612
00:40:58,150 --> 00:41:04,330
married allowance and instead of
sending it to his wife, it 

613
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:11,450
somehow went to his mother. 
All right, so by this time he 

614
00:41:11,450 --> 00:41:18,770
had a son and he got a letter 
from his wife saying, I don't 

615
00:41:18,770 --> 00:41:21,410
know what's going on, but we 
haven't had any of the married 

616
00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:25,150
allowance. 
I don't know where it is I'm 

617
00:41:25,150 --> 00:41:28,710
having to beg my friends and 
family for money to live on, to 

618
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:31,270
keep our son, to get, you know, 
fed and watered. 

619
00:41:31,710 --> 00:41:33,550
What are you going to do about 
it? 

620
00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:38,150
Well, anybody else, I think with
a sensible head on would have 

621
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:41,910
gone to see their commanding 
officer and explain the 

622
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:43,790
situation. 
There's been a hell of a 

623
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:47,510
mistake. 
Instead, what he did was he 

624
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:50,910
stole a motorbike from the motor
pool that RA have sent Eville, 

625
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:58,960
rode to London on it, which is 
fair old feet in wartime, and 

626
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,120
dumped the bike somehow dumped 
his uniform and got hold of 

627
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:09,080
civvy clothes. 
And unless he had civvy clothes,

628
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:16,800
he took with him and he got a 
job working as Richard Callen in

629
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,760
theater. 
And he was working. 

630
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,520
I don't know how many weeks, 
months he was doing this. 

631
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,720
Anyway, he was waiting to go on 
one night he was in costume and 

632
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,760
stage makeup and two men 
appeared either side of him. 

633
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,840
One either side of him. 
Richard Callen. 

634
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,440
Yes. 
And then read out his RAF serial

635
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:43,280
number, also known as Richard 
Gilbert Emory. 

636
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,720
Yes. 
You're under arrest for going 

637
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:47,840
absent without leaving the time 
of war. 

638
00:42:50,170 --> 00:42:53,210
And he was marched off to the 
nearest police station and taken

639
00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:55,250
from there to Stanmore Military 
Prison. 

640
00:42:57,490 --> 00:43:01,330
And it was while he was in 
Stanmore Military Prison that 

641
00:43:01,330 --> 00:43:06,730
Ralph Ralph Reader, who had been
given an honorary Commission by 

642
00:43:06,730 --> 00:43:13,330
the RAF as a think of Flight 
Lieutenant, was a given carte 

643
00:43:13,330 --> 00:43:22,020
blanche to recruit anybody with 
stage experience to go into the 

644
00:43:22,020 --> 00:43:24,780
gang show. 
So he plucked about of prison 

645
00:43:25,420 --> 00:43:30,100
and he went to the prison and 
that said his life by that time 

646
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:36,380
he was double timing everywhere 
and he double timed into the 

647
00:43:37,620 --> 00:43:42,620
prison governor's office. 
And there's this other man in 

648
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:48,240
there with the bands of an RAF 
Lieutenant on his cuffs, with 

649
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:52,960
his jacket, and he's given a 
cursory interview. 

650
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,000
You know, it says here that 
you've worked in theater. 

651
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,160
You've done this at Neal. 
And he said, yes, Sir. 

652
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,160
And he said right, and just 
looked at the governor. 

653
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,320
He said, I'll take him, I'll 
take him now. 

654
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,840
And he was given a travel 
warrant on the spot, released 

655
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,820
from prison, put on a train and 
I God knows where they went. 

656
00:44:14,820 --> 00:44:20,300
But he went somewhere and was 
billeted in a house near on an 

657
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:26,060
airfield. 
And he said, you know, he said, 

658
00:44:26,060 --> 00:44:28,500
what do we do? 
He said, well, we just wait till

659
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:32,500
we all get together and then we 
start putting a show together. 

660
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,580
And he said, oh right. 
And he still couldn't get it in 

661
00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:37,300
his head that he was out of 
prison. 

662
00:44:39,220 --> 00:44:41,900
And the following the 1st 
morning he's woke. 

663
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:49,260
He woke up at 6:00 as he had 
always done in prison and he he 

664
00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:53,140
nudged his near his near his 
roommate and said shouldn't we 

665
00:44:53,140 --> 00:44:59,740
be getting out and said oh told 
him to go away in not so many 

666
00:44:59,740 --> 00:45:05,060
not so nice away And he said at 
11:00 a flight Sergeant came 

667
00:45:05,060 --> 00:45:09,040
round would you care for some 
tea? 

668
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,680
And that was his introduction 
into gang show life. 

669
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,720
Well, I mean he certainly for 
the rest of his life, he hardly 

670
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,520
had spoken any higher than he 
did of Ralph Reeder. 

671
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,840
No, I mean, Ralph Reeder saved 
him. 

672
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,400
Yeah, I mean, you really see, 
you really seemed to see him as 

673
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,440
a sort of guardian Angel. 
Yes, he was, because he took 

674
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,360
him. 
And at the gang show, the gang 

675
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:38,340
shows were hard. 
You I Don't Sellers was out in 

676
00:45:38,340 --> 00:45:47,380
India. 
The the ones in the UK went 

677
00:45:47,380 --> 00:45:54,540
round every RAF base in the back
of a lorry and they've finished 

678
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:56,340
the show. 
Load everything on the back of a

679
00:45:56,340 --> 00:46:03,060
lorry and drive through the 
night to wherever they went to 

680
00:46:03,060 --> 00:46:06,620
next to do a show and then they 
were set up, then back in the 

681
00:46:06,620 --> 00:46:10,460
lorry and I think they, Dad said
they got dysentery in this 

682
00:46:10,460 --> 00:46:15,980
country. 
Jeez, jeez, because they they 

683
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:20,580
they were using a bucket for 
sanitation in the back of the 

684
00:46:20,580 --> 00:46:26,500
lorry. 
They the the halcyon days of 

685
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:34,180
sitting in a a nice house having
cups of tea or he were over and 

686
00:46:34,220 --> 00:46:38,900
they really did struggle. 
I mean you know that used to try

687
00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:41,940
and use the back of the lorry as
his dressing room till one night

688
00:46:42,060 --> 00:46:46,860
they some well meaning soul 
moved it 3 miles away with him 

689
00:46:46,860 --> 00:46:55,700
on board and yeah and then he 
went to north on 70 D-Day plus 

690
00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:57,660
17 he was in northern France. 
Yeah, it's. 

691
00:46:58,660 --> 00:47:01,690
Incredible. 
But the the affection for gang 

692
00:47:01,690 --> 00:47:05,210
shows seems to have spilled over
into the population. 

693
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:09,090
In fact, there's a there's a gun
show teller. 

694
00:47:09,090 --> 00:47:13,250
You'll be able to tell me. 
Is it the fear of Lombard? 

695
00:47:13,250 --> 00:47:15,250
And I'm not sure where at the 
end. 

696
00:47:15,330 --> 00:47:20,810
Maybe the one with the musicians
straight where the the end is 

697
00:47:20,810 --> 00:47:25,780
saying now you all stand. 
For the national anthem, and 

698
00:47:25,780 --> 00:47:29,780
it's so we're riding the long 
bone because probably and the 

699
00:47:29,780 --> 00:47:32,140
audience absolutely love it, you
know? 

700
00:47:32,220 --> 00:47:33,900
Yeah, I think. 
I think it's the last show of 

701
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:35,140
series 5. 
Right. 

702
00:47:35,460 --> 00:47:38,300
Everyone had that trunk of an 
eye, right? 

703
00:47:39,020 --> 00:47:41,220
All hold the hands, chickity 
snitch. 

704
00:47:41,660 --> 00:48:01,110
All together. 
While all the hailing while all 

705
00:48:01,390 --> 00:48:12,870
the trips around the sailing, 
we're riding along on the Crest 

706
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:16,390
of a woman and the sun. 
He's in the score. 

707
00:48:19,210 --> 00:48:27,530
On the distant horizon, look out
for a parcel of Boy, we're 

708
00:48:29,090 --> 00:48:45,880
riding along 
after the war. 

709
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,280
As I say, they all flooded into 
CV St. in the night. 

710
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:56,240
You know, late, mid to late 40s,
all D mob, D mob happy, you 

711
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,160
know, and they're all those mad,
as mad as Hatters because 

712
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,680
they've survived. 
That's the thing, a lot of them,

713
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,520
I mean, Benzine said. 
You know, we came out and we 

714
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,200
were euphoric. 
We were just, you know, we've 

715
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,720
survived, we've survived. 
And that leads to a kind of 

716
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:17,760
madness. 
And you know, they want to kick.

717
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,240
They want to kick the 
establishment over for the five 

718
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:23,400
or six years they've been in 
uniform. 

719
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,800
Although the the we know of it, 
you know the the graft in arms 

720
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,800
where you know like the sellers 
know that Bob Monkhouse is very 

721
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,680
good on on when he was writing 
about, you know, all the 

722
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,880
comedians like the Alexander 
Club where they all win and 

723
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,120
would swap jobs, you know, but 
your dad, Betty Hill, Mike 

724
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,320
Mygraves, you know, all of them 
all together, all just sort of 

725
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:54,350
moving as a sort of head. 
Well dad followed Hancock into 

726
00:49:54,350 --> 00:50:01,150
the windmill and I mean Hancock 
was living in this flat off 

727
00:50:01,150 --> 00:50:06,190
Leicester Square, this room, 2 
rooms and he said he went round 

728
00:50:06,190 --> 00:50:12,230
there one day and he said 
Hancock is. 

729
00:50:12,990 --> 00:50:14,390
He said do you want something to
eat? 

730
00:50:14,470 --> 00:50:18,870
And so Dad said, well, yes, OK 
and there's Hancock boiling 2 

731
00:50:18,870 --> 00:50:23,920
eggs in a kettle. 
And he said we eat them with 

732
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,920
teaspoons from rolled. 
We've rolled up newspapers 

733
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,640
around. 
And what Hancock had in this 

734
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:36,120
place, he had a washbasin and a 
hot water tank, a copper hot 

735
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,380
water tank, and he polished the 
side of it. 

736
00:50:39,380 --> 00:50:44,860
So he got a mirror to shave it. 
And then he's, you know, there 

737
00:50:44,860 --> 00:50:47,260
were things like, you know, 
you'd wear an overcoat and you 

738
00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:49,660
get, you'd have part of the 
shirt. 

739
00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:51,980
So you didn't have the sleeves. 
You just have the front and the.

740
00:50:52,020 --> 00:50:54,260
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And the five. 

741
00:50:54,260 --> 00:50:56,180
So you could make yourself, you 
know, with an overcoat. 

742
00:50:56,180 --> 00:51:01,060
You could make yourself look 
smart, you know, if if one had 

743
00:51:01,060 --> 00:51:03,980
money, the other one didn't, you
know, can I lend you a fight? 

744
00:51:04,220 --> 00:51:04,980
Oh, yes. 
For all right. 

745
00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:07,540
There's a fiber and it was like 
the elastic fiber. 

746
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:10,670
That's where their private catch
phrase came from. 

747
00:51:10,670 --> 00:51:12,230
Didn't play anymore where that 
came from. 

748
00:51:12,990 --> 00:51:20,350
Yeah, so they all followed each 
other around and they'd all come

749
00:51:20,350 --> 00:51:22,750
out. 
There was Alfred Marks and all 

750
00:51:22,750 --> 00:51:27,470
the rest of them all come out of
the services and were a little 

751
00:51:27,470 --> 00:51:29,830
bit bomb. 
Some were bomb happy, some were 

752
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:34,800
been in you know concert parties
in in on board ship or things 

753
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,000
like that. 
They were, but the lot of them 

754
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,440
were as mad as cheese benzine 
was, you know, I mean even if he

755
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,880
was even in his private life, he
could be a little bit bonkers. 

756
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:52,920
I mean he he he was showing his 
children how hot air balloons 

757
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,510
work, and he made one out of 
paper and he let it go, and it 

758
00:51:57,510 --> 00:52:00,910
drifted across the garden and 
into the thatched roof of the 

759
00:52:00,910 --> 00:52:02,590
house next door, which set it to
lie. 

760
00:52:09,630 --> 00:52:11,590
You know he was. 
Just, just just on benting. 

761
00:52:12,550 --> 00:52:15,670
You said about your dad was 
arrested on stage and dragged 

762
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:20,230
off. 
Yeah, the same thing happened to

763
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:23,950
benting. 
He he was appearing at the open 

764
00:52:23,950 --> 00:52:26,150
air theater Regions Park during 
the war. 

765
00:52:26,660 --> 00:52:30,580
That's right, yes. 
And due to a clerical error, he 

766
00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:33,380
was wrongly he was wrongly 
accused of deserted, A 

767
00:52:33,380 --> 00:52:36,860
desertion, and he was dragged 
off wearing doublet and hose. 

768
00:52:38,420 --> 00:52:40,900
Absolutely. 
That sounds like something he'd 

769
00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:43,100
have written. 
It's like I'm being I'm being 

770
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:46,460
arrested by my own sketch, yes. 
This is it. 

771
00:52:46,660 --> 00:52:48,100
I mean this. 
This was it. 

772
00:52:48,100 --> 00:52:50,980
The stupidity of it. 
I mean, if you read Milligan's 

773
00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:55,370
book of his service life. 
Yeah, the service life, you know

774
00:52:55,450 --> 00:52:57,090
that. 
You can see where a lot of the 

775
00:52:57,090 --> 00:53:01,530
ideas came from because it was 
crazy crackers. 

776
00:53:01,530 --> 00:53:03,050
I mean, that's the thing he 
said. 

777
00:53:03,050 --> 00:53:05,570
We had this thing, he said, 
when, if when it was first 

778
00:53:05,570 --> 00:53:09,250
posted to Saint Devil, one of 
the punishment things was to 

779
00:53:09,250 --> 00:53:14,130
paint the coal white. 
You know why? 

780
00:53:14,330 --> 00:53:17,610
So you can find it in the dark. 
Yeah. 

781
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:18,690
Right. 
Yes. 

782
00:53:18,690 --> 00:53:22,980
OK, fine. 
That day, it was that sort of 

783
00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:25,100
mentality that's won us the war 
and. 

784
00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:28,020
What happened if it snowed 
exactly? 

785
00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:30,540
You know pizza block again going
with yeah of. 

786
00:53:31,540 --> 00:53:35,900
Course, you know, scrub it well,
burn now. 

787
00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:41,140
Well, it's, it was total. 
Total. 

788
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:44,020
I mean, I love the story about 
Milligan. 

789
00:53:44,180 --> 00:53:45,980
They were doing a gun drill with
a gun. 

790
00:53:45,980 --> 00:53:49,710
They couldn't find a shelf or 
and they all had to when they 

791
00:53:49,790 --> 00:53:52,910
they pulled the the trigger for 
the the artillery piece and they

792
00:53:52,910 --> 00:53:59,830
all had to shout bang to 
recreate the idea of firing this

793
00:53:59,830 --> 00:54:03,110
gun. 
I mean that's the ridiculous 

794
00:54:03,110 --> 00:54:04,790
thing. 
I know it was a sort of semi 

795
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:08,230
series here but it was bizarre, 
he said. 

796
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:11,950
We had someone to said we used 
to have to parade us and devil 

797
00:54:11,950 --> 00:54:18,210
on a Sunday and then there was a
vicar priest and a rabbi. 

798
00:54:19,290 --> 00:54:21,770
Just it's a joke. 
Just it does. 

799
00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:26,010
It sounds like a classic joke. 
And they walked along the the in

800
00:54:26,010 --> 00:54:28,330
front of the planes, the 
fighters or whatever. 

801
00:54:28,330 --> 00:54:31,850
They were the fighters I think, 
and they walked along blessing 

802
00:54:31,850 --> 00:54:36,250
the guns. 
There's good religious values 

803
00:54:36,250 --> 00:54:40,970
for you. 
Bless these guns. 

804
00:54:42,010 --> 00:54:44,810
Maybe they smite our enemies and
that's all. 

805
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,720
Yes. 
And you can, you can see one of 

806
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,920
the you can see the vicar being 
your dad with the teeth, with 

807
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,840
the teeth, with the teeth. 
Absolutely, absolutely. 

808
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,480
Have you well? 
Have you still got those teeth, 

809
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,880
Nick? 
No, no, no. 

810
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:05,860
That's the maid for his gulp. 
I think those teeth are the 

811
00:55:05,860 --> 00:55:08,980
single most effective comedy 
prop in history. 

812
00:55:09,220 --> 00:55:13,140
Well, I mean, you see teeth. 
I mean, you look at Harry 

813
00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:19,940
Enfield's Tim Nice but dim, 
which is has that sort of same 

814
00:55:19,940 --> 00:55:22,900
thing with the teeth, you know? 
Yeah, but they used to. 

815
00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:26,100
That's how they used to say 
early on in Harry Enfield's 

816
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:28,460
career that he was the new Dick 
Emery, didn't they? 

817
00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:31,100
They did. 
Well, Charlie Hickson, bless his

818
00:55:31,100 --> 00:55:38,370
heart, when he he was 
interviewed in one of the things

819
00:55:38,370 --> 00:55:40,090
that the films they've done 
about his life. 

820
00:55:40,090 --> 00:55:44,050
Well, that was, that was for the
many faces of the Camry faces. 

821
00:55:46,330 --> 00:55:49,250
If ever crops up, I would 
recommend anybody should watch. 

822
00:55:49,370 --> 00:55:55,970
Yeah, the BBC that was on the 
BBC and I took part. 

823
00:55:55,970 --> 00:56:00,780
I actually took my way onto 
that, but they but Charlie 

824
00:56:00,780 --> 00:56:03,420
Higson said. 
He said all we did was we did 

825
00:56:03,420 --> 00:56:05,660
Dick Emery. 
That was with the occasional 

826
00:56:05,660 --> 00:56:11,300
swear word, which wouldn't have 
happened in Dutch show, but it 

827
00:56:11,300 --> 00:56:13,780
did in the Harry Enfields. 
Sure. 

828
00:56:15,060 --> 00:56:17,980
But I think there's an important
point to make there. 

829
00:56:18,860 --> 00:56:22,420
And if this is a point to make 
an important point, which is 

830
00:56:22,420 --> 00:56:26,860
that the sort of appreciation of
your dad's career and looking 

831
00:56:26,860 --> 00:56:30,230
back on it and its impact. 
And obviously people in Milligan

832
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:33,390
get a huge amount of credit for 
how they change comedy. 

833
00:56:33,790 --> 00:56:36,350
And as you see, we mentioned 
Peter Cook and he also gets it, 

834
00:56:37,470 --> 00:56:39,830
but it's not always fully 
appreciated. 

835
00:56:40,070 --> 00:56:45,950
I think how amends an impact The
Dick Emery Show had on comedy, 

836
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:49,950
because it hadn't, because it 
hadn't existed that that format 

837
00:56:49,950 --> 00:56:55,310
really hadn't existed before 
where you have not set, not set 

838
00:56:55,310 --> 00:56:59,190
situations. 
That set characters doing the 

839
00:56:59,190 --> 00:57:04,750
same thing within situations and
that is created a whole a whole 

840
00:57:05,350 --> 00:57:08,590
theme of comedy that sort of 
that. 

841
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:12,350
I'm not sure. 
I'm not sure if he gets the I'm 

842
00:57:12,350 --> 00:57:14,550
not sure if he gets quite the 
credit he should do for that 

843
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:18,590
because he certainly should. 
No he didn't because the BBC 

844
00:57:19,630 --> 00:57:25,990
around if there is a Parkinson 
show which he was on in 1980. 

845
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:30,440
Yeah, and it was a strange, it 
was a strange Parkinson show 

846
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:36,280
because he was on there with 
Kirk Douglas and the first half 

847
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:41,080
was Dad, the second-half was 
Kirk Douglas. 

848
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,360
But they never sat together on 
the stage. 

849
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:52,440
And I I saw Parkinson last year.
I know. 

850
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:59,480
No, no. 
Yes, I have one, but I'm not 

851
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:05,640
telling you now so it's in 
terrible taste and I'm not doing

852
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:11,680
it so, but he, he said, he said 
to me, he said that would have 

853
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:18,960
been Kirk Douglas's management. 
They wouldn't have allowed him 

854
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:22,520
to be on sharing the stage. 
He would have only been on 

855
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,190
allowed to be on on his own and 
he wouldn't do it. 

856
00:58:26,190 --> 00:58:27,830
He wouldn't have done the show 
otherwise. 

857
00:58:28,430 --> 00:58:30,550
I suppose you can kind of see 
that, yeah. 

858
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:33,230
So, but it was interesting in 
that. 

859
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:41,470
It didn't stop a bloody singing.
No, he It's an interesting show 

860
00:58:41,470 --> 00:58:48,550
because they touch on the 
changing comedy world i.e. 

861
00:58:48,550 --> 00:58:52,950
That a lot of things were 
beginning to be looked at in the

862
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:58,200
light of the very early 
beginnings of political 

863
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,760
correctness, especially 
regarding the gay character, 

864
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,480
Clarence. 
And you know, they've been 

865
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,400
mentions. 
And he said, and that quite 

866
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,720
honestly, he said, well, he said
the one thing about the 

867
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,040
characters I do is there's no 
malice in them. 

868
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:21,160
Yeah, absolutely. 
They're done out of love of the 

869
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,000
the type. 
They're not done out of cruelty.

870
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:30,960
There's no aspect of cruelty. 
There's a certain show on the TV

871
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,840
at the moment where a character 
is in that and has no empathy. 

872
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:39,200
As far as I can tell. 
I only watched one episode and 

873
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,760
my partner and I, we sat there 
and she said to me, I can't 

874
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,720
watch another episode. 
That character is awful. 

875
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,640
But I mean, Clarence. 
This as a gay man I have. 

876
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,160
I. 
I think Clarence is a. 

877
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,600
Great character because as you 
say there's there's absolutely 

878
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,480
no, there's no malice in it. 
But most importantly, I'm sorry 

879
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:03,760
if I get to sound a bit dediced 
about this, but no, no, no. 

880
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,720
But most importantly about. 
It is he's. 

881
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:13,200
Also absolutely unashamed. 
Yes, he. 

882
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,240
He struts. 
About immensis about yeah. 

883
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,440
And what's? 
Great about him is he has the 

884
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,840
outrageous outfits, but because 
he has your dad's physique, yes,

885
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:29,200
obviously he's very at. 
The same time, very physically 

886
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:35,000
imposing. 
The program. 

887
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,520
Oh yeah, but what's great about 
it? 

888
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,600
Doesn't it would be so easy? 
For the program, Not not your 

889
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,400
dad, but the program to be 
sneering. 

890
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,440
How to you know to have little 
comments after you know like you

891
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,600
know like you wouldn't turn your
back on him or something. 

892
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,280
Yeah. 
And actually he appears and I I 

893
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,880
watched one last night he has a 
fantastic outfit and it didn't 

894
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,200
took my more and a moment to 
notice it's look at the 

895
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,240
outrageously striped the jumper 
kind of thing. 

896
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:02,920
Yeah. 
And all the front of it. 

897
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,120
It says first of the letters 
been in the numbers. 

898
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,120
I'm one. 
And then when he walks away. 

899
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:11,880
It says are. 
You too. 

900
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,280
Yeah, but when you but when you 
walks up and they'll say you 

901
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,960
know. 
You know, it's the interview. 

902
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,840
It's nice to see, you know, it's
that sort of big line and you 

903
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:32,120
know then does the line you know
and you go, you know. 

904
01:01:33,470 --> 01:01:35,990
Are you going? 
Did you go the holiday last 

905
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:38,110
year? 
Oh yes, I tried it immensely. 

906
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:40,790
Was that was it abroad? 
Was that? 

907
01:01:40,790 --> 01:01:45,990
No, just me and my friend. 
And then they walk away and 

908
01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:48,950
there's. 
No snideness, no. 

909
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:51,510
But no cat calling. 
Nobody's being nasty. 

910
01:01:51,950 --> 01:01:55,110
Or it's it's such a singular 
character. 

911
01:01:55,350 --> 01:01:57,470
Many years ago, I used to be in 
musical. 

912
01:01:57,470 --> 01:02:02,310
Shows and in those days you had 
a lot of boys in the show 1620 

913
01:02:02,310 --> 01:02:04,690
on. 
And they were all gay lovely 

914
01:02:04,690 --> 01:02:06,770
people. 
Marvelous my God, marvelous 

915
01:02:06,770 --> 01:02:08,930
people. 
And they'd knit and so they're 

916
01:02:08,930 --> 01:02:11,970
all there. 
And in between shows we did an 

917
01:02:11,970 --> 01:02:13,130
afternoon show and an evening 
show. 

918
01:02:13,130 --> 01:02:15,090
It was a nice break, about two 
hours and we used to have 

919
01:02:15,090 --> 01:02:17,770
cabarets, you know and they used
to put all on the all the drag. 

920
01:02:17,770 --> 01:02:21,290
Marvelous ideas for drag. 
I remember 1 fellow got hold of 

921
01:02:21,290 --> 01:02:23,690
a chair back one of those old 
oak chair backs and put it on. 

922
01:02:23,690 --> 01:02:25,370
It looked like a Spanish scene 
arena. 

923
01:02:25,370 --> 01:02:28,590
It was marvelous. 
And I got it from them. 

924
01:02:28,590 --> 01:02:31,590
You know, I used to talk like 
that with them and the chat and 

925
01:02:31,590 --> 01:02:33,870
they say, well, don't don't 
bother with their idea because 

926
01:02:33,870 --> 01:02:38,670
she's not one of us. 
And so it became natural. 

927
01:02:39,470 --> 01:02:43,190
I spent many, many years doing 
that, doing shows with them, he 

928
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:46,830
said. 
I always admired what those guys

929
01:02:46,830 --> 01:02:51,670
could do and how they coped with
life and how they lived their 

930
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:54,430
lives and coped with their lives
in the world. 

931
01:02:54,510 --> 01:02:59,080
That was so against them. 
I love your dad for the. 

932
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,960
For the that sort of attitude 
that you had, which was not 

933
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,320
common, it wasn't. 
It wasn't. 

934
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,920
And it's sort of color. 
I mean, I've worked in theater 

935
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,800
very briefly and I mean Blink, 
you would have missed me. 

936
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:20,480
And you know, I grew up and I 
worked around people like that. 

937
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:25,680
It's never fazed me whatsoever. 
And I just find it, oh, you 

938
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,960
know, I hear people's comments 
and I just think you really 

939
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,400
don't know. 
You really don't know. 

940
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,960
But he parky asked him about it 
and what did he think? 

941
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,840
And you know, people's comments 
and he just said no, he said. 

942
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,880
And that's when the comments 
came about. 

943
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:44,280
You know, his character. 
There was no real malice. 

944
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:48,320
There was no they were of their 
time, obviously. 

945
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:52,450
You know the scripts were 
written in the like that the 

946
01:03:52,450 --> 01:03:57,450
world, the world has moved on. 
People in general, one hopes 

947
01:03:57,890 --> 01:04:01,930
show respect to others. 
But sometimes I'm wonder. 

948
01:04:03,290 --> 01:04:05,530
But that's just a general. 
Comment on that. 

949
01:04:05,570 --> 01:04:11,930
But you know he he was, he was 
very aware that, you know, there

950
01:04:11,930 --> 01:04:14,410
had to be some. 
All these characters had one or 

951
01:04:14,650 --> 01:04:20,410
one saving grace somewhere. 
As I might, he was certainly. 

952
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:23,960
He was certainly a man secure in
his masculinity. 

953
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:29,760
Yes, I've got a bit While you're
talking about sort of this thing

954
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:33,320
about the thing. 
I mean, he used to worry Pat 

955
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:34,760
Coons. 
No. 

956
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:36,440
What? 
Because. 

957
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:37,640
Yes, well. 
You. 

958
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:41,600
See when they did a lot of the 
sketches where he would be the 

959
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:47,720
woman next door neighbor. 
And she said that she was 

960
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,240
interviewed in one of these 
shows, I think it was on Channel

961
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:57,040
4 way back. 
And she said when he did a 

962
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,840
woman, he did a woman. 
Oh, yes, that's right. 

963
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:02,440
Yeah. 
And. 

964
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,560
She said I would be standing 
there and there would, she said.

965
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,000
Sometimes I could look into his 
eyes and he was gone. 

966
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:15,030
There was a she there but. 
There wasn't a he because the 

967
01:05:15,030 --> 01:05:18,990
mannerisms and everything just 
clicked into place. 

968
01:05:19,470 --> 01:05:26,950
And she said it was so studied 
and so there that she said 

969
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:30,830
sometimes it actually made her 
almost jump back. 

970
01:05:31,590 --> 01:05:33,670
But you know what? 
Again, again, I think that's a. 

971
01:05:34,110 --> 01:05:38,070
Little bit to do with it touches
on again the lack of 

972
01:05:38,070 --> 01:05:43,030
appreciation that they got 
because people freely say. 

973
01:05:43,390 --> 01:05:45,350
Or Peter Sailors. 
He disappeared into his 

974
01:05:45,350 --> 01:05:48,030
characters and he became the 
person. 

975
01:05:48,030 --> 01:05:51,870
But then, well, so did Derek. 
Yeah, he did. 

976
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:59,230
He was a very mixed up 
individual in private, very 

977
01:05:59,390 --> 01:06:04,350
mixed up. 
I knew could well. 

978
01:06:04,350 --> 01:06:07,470
Nobody has five wives and. 
Multiple neural friends never 

979
01:06:07,950 --> 01:06:09,750
got something good on No, I 
mean. 

980
01:06:10,250 --> 01:06:14,490
I've spoken to Vicki, his fourth
wife, and we worked out that he 

981
01:06:14,490 --> 01:06:17,810
needed two wives at each at 
every moment of his life. 

982
01:06:22,130 --> 01:06:20,330
Well, it was a lot of it. 
One not you. 

983
01:06:23,130 --> 01:06:27,490
Packed into 5 foot 5 1/2 inches.
Have you inherited this? 

984
01:06:28,370 --> 01:06:34,010
No, I have been married twice, 
but my first wife died of breast

985
01:06:34,010 --> 01:06:36,930
cancer. 
But my second wife, who I'm 

986
01:06:37,690 --> 01:06:44,570
extracting myself from after a 
long time, is it was it was 

987
01:06:44,890 --> 01:06:47,170
really and truly we were totally
incompatible. 

988
01:06:48,090 --> 01:06:50,050
But that was that's another 
story. 

989
01:06:51,370 --> 01:06:53,330
Have you? 
Did you inherit his? 

990
01:06:54,370 --> 01:06:58,570
His sort of dynamism in terms of
like, you know, the dear devil 

991
01:06:58,570 --> 01:07:01,350
stuff. 
No, I never. 

992
01:07:01,350 --> 01:07:05,310
Had the money to do it. 
I inherited. 

993
01:07:05,310 --> 01:07:10,750
His slightly quirky view on 
life, you know, sort of sitting 

994
01:07:10,750 --> 01:07:14,270
watching people and would you 
know. 

995
01:07:14,270 --> 01:07:17,070
I have been known to watch 
people, to let you actually do 

996
01:07:17,070 --> 01:07:21,710
something funny, which, you 
know, is patience, basically, 

997
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,680
yeah, I do watch people and I 
watch their mannerisms and how 

998
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:30,560
they move and all the rest of 
it. 

999
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:35,480
I've never used it in any way, 
but it must. 

1000
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,720
Be a family trait And in fact my
my brother does it. 

1001
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:44,520
Michael, he does that as well. 
Can we just talk about? 

1002
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,720
Benting for a moment? 
Yes, because. 

1003
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,560
Benting has said. 
That he more or less helped your

1004
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:56,960
dad? 
At the pretty low ebb And he 

1005
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:00,360
gave him his first big TV job. 
Yes, he did. 

1006
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,920
I think it was a TV show called 
After Hours. 

1007
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:09,800
Yeah. 
And he. 

1008
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:17,240
They were at traffic lights and 
Dad was in an old car and Bente 

1009
01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:21,080
pulled up alongside him, saw him
down the window down and yelled 

1010
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,840
across at him, you know, Hello. 
Hello. 

1011
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,439
You know, what are you doing? 
So Dad said, well, I'm, you 

1012
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,040
know, going home. 
And he said, no, no, no, what 

1013
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,120
are you doing? 
He said, well, I don't know. 

1014
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,640
I've not got much on, you know, 
not much work, work. 

1015
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,080
Oh, he said, well, I'm doing 
this show, you know, he said you

1016
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:43,120
ought to be in it. 
And so that's that was that. 

1017
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,960
And suddenly he's in the show 
called After Hours, which then 

1018
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:50,080
led to It's a Square World, 
which was a huge. 

1019
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:56,180
Ensemble thing really. 
I mean there was, I mean, gosh, 

1020
01:08:56,220 --> 01:08:58,540
it was a who was who wasn't. 
It was Clive Dunn. 

1021
01:08:58,580 --> 01:08:59,500
Yeah, Clive Dunn. 
Yeah. 

1022
01:08:59,620 --> 01:09:05,819
Frank Thornton and Leo Thor, a 
man you always. 

1023
01:09:05,819 --> 01:09:11,500
Saw every now and then in films.
Joe Gibbons, Mario Frabrizzi, I 

1024
01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:14,590
think, yeah. 
Regular. 

1025
01:09:14,670 --> 01:09:17,790
Regular. 
Appearances and the podcast, 

1026
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:23,189
Yes, including last week's show.
And there were. 

1027
01:09:23,630 --> 01:09:25,670
There were. 
There were all these, all these 

1028
01:09:25,670 --> 01:09:29,430
characters, and it was, it was, 
it was an ensemble show with no 

1029
01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:33,350
women. 
I suppose it was. 

1030
01:09:30,750 --> 01:09:37,350
It was an old male ensemble. 
It was similar really, to the 

1031
01:09:37,350 --> 01:09:39,550
Flying Circus. 
Yeah. 

1032
01:09:39,550 --> 01:09:41,390
Dale Winton's mum was in it. 
A. 

1033
01:09:41,430 --> 01:09:44,810
Few shows. 
Sherry Winton Yeah, yeah. 

1034
01:09:45,490 --> 01:09:47,689
But it would have been a very 
small, Oh yeah. 

1035
01:09:47,689 --> 01:09:51,010
It would have almost been a walk
on part. 

1036
01:09:51,290 --> 01:09:53,569
Oh yeah, Yeah. 
And by the way, Clive. 

1037
01:09:53,609 --> 01:09:57,130
Clive, we were talking about 
what was his name? 

1038
01:09:57,130 --> 01:10:02,690
Dent, Burt Dent and Sellers and 
your dad getting inspiration to 

1039
01:10:02,690 --> 01:10:04,410
play the old characters. 
Clive Dunn. 

1040
01:10:04,410 --> 01:10:06,610
There's another one. 
Yeah, that was an old man 

1041
01:10:06,610 --> 01:10:08,050
character. 
Oh yeah. 

1042
01:10:08,610 --> 01:10:09,770
He became. 
I mean, he was. 

1043
01:10:09,770 --> 01:10:12,880
The oldest, I mean, he always 
played men who were. 

1044
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,080
He ended up just playing men of 
a certain age. 

1045
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,440
You never saw him as a man his 
age. 

1046
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:26,440
And certainly there was some 
sort of mandiesque pieces in it.

1047
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,840
The one thing I do remember, I 
mean, oh God, this is they did a

1048
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:35,120
show about, I think it was the 
sinking of the Woolwich ferry or

1049
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:42,480
something like that. 
And they they filmed part of. 

1050
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:46,440
It in the testing tanks, the 
water tanks, testing water 

1051
01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:50,560
tanks. 
I think it was Feltham in 

1052
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,200
Middlesex when they were there. 
They're gone now. 

1053
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:56,120
And that what they? 
Did was. 

1054
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,240
They had tables underwater, laid
out, dining tables underwater 

1055
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,160
with and laid out with plates 
and knives and forks, with 

1056
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:08,690
candelabras sticking up out of 
the water and. 

1057
01:11:08,810 --> 01:11:11,730
There's filming this scene of 
people going around trying to 

1058
01:11:11,730 --> 01:11:15,650
serve dinner to to people's 
tables. 

1059
01:11:15,650 --> 01:11:20,970
Anyway, so in between takes Dad 
wants to have a cigarette. 

1060
01:11:20,970 --> 01:11:25,890
So he he lit one up and they're 
sitting there, up to well, up to

1061
01:11:25,890 --> 01:11:30,130
his stomach in water, because 
he's sitting down and he's 

1062
01:11:30,450 --> 01:11:32,770
sitting there puffing away on 
his Ziggy. 

1063
01:11:33,410 --> 01:11:36,730
And there's a shout of Oi put 
that cigarette. 

1064
01:11:36,730 --> 01:11:39,570
Out why? 
You're a fire hazard, he said. 

1065
01:11:40,810 --> 01:11:42,690
How? 
I'm surrounded by war. 

1066
01:11:42,690 --> 01:11:47,450
Doesn't matter. 
So that was that. 

1067
01:11:47,450 --> 01:11:50,170
I mean, Benson Benson was 
legendary. 

1068
01:11:51,250 --> 01:11:53,610
He's another one who gets so 
overlooked. 

1069
01:11:53,610 --> 01:11:59,090
I God knows BBC went through a 
period of wiping everything to 

1070
01:11:59,090 --> 01:12:03,250
save money on storing tapes. 
So here's. 

1071
01:12:03,250 --> 01:12:06,730
Another legendary figures. 
Of showbiz crossover with your 

1072
01:12:06,730 --> 01:12:09,340
dad. 
Yeah, So at the start of the 

1073
01:12:09,340 --> 01:12:13,980
Dick Emery Show, writers 
credited Mel Brooks. 

1074
01:12:14,260 --> 01:12:15,700
Yeah. 
And Mel Token. 

1075
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:19,420
Yeah. 
So I'm guessing that was 

1076
01:12:19,420 --> 01:12:23,140
because. 
Your show of shows. 

1077
01:12:23,140 --> 01:12:23,900
Or the? 
Said Caesar. 

1078
01:12:23,900 --> 01:12:26,500
Show whatever was. 
Yeah, probably some kind of 

1079
01:12:26,500 --> 01:12:28,260
template. 
Yes, it was. 

1080
01:12:28,260 --> 01:12:30,380
So why? 
So why not get them over? 

1081
01:12:30,380 --> 01:12:34,540
Yeah, like, yes. 
I mean, and these guys were 

1082
01:12:34,540 --> 01:12:38,310
hungry to write and get their 
name out there. 

1083
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:42,830
Too, which was, you know, and 
try and get some international 

1084
01:12:42,830 --> 01:12:47,150
accreditation as a scriptwriter 
as well and much more. 

1085
01:12:47,150 --> 01:12:50,510
So the Yanks coming over here 
than the the Brits going over 

1086
01:12:50,510 --> 01:12:56,070
there at the time. 
Because the Yank humor sort of 

1087
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:59,950
transferred easily, whereas 
British humor didn't so much 

1088
01:13:00,510 --> 01:13:05,830
sure. 
But yeah, I mean, John Fleese 

1089
01:13:05,830 --> 01:13:11,190
wrote sketches I. 
Think he did write a sketch for 

1090
01:13:11,190 --> 01:13:13,510
him? 
Is it true that Harold Pinter? 

1091
01:13:13,710 --> 01:13:15,070
Wrote. 
For the ticket Emery show. 

1092
01:13:15,550 --> 01:13:19,230
I don't know. 
You know that I couldn't answer 

1093
01:13:19,310 --> 01:13:20,310
it. 
Had that question for the 

1094
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:21,830
writing. 
Yeah, it's one. 

1095
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:23,150
Of those, it's one of those 
things, You. 

1096
01:13:23,150 --> 01:13:27,190
Hear, but I've never actually 
found any any evidence of it, 

1097
01:13:27,190 --> 01:13:29,390
unless there's a program with a 
sketch with nothing but pauses 

1098
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:32,950
in it. 
But. 

1099
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,040
It does bring us to a point that
a lot of people say like Roy HUD

1100
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:39,200
just said this. 
And I'm kind of inclined to 

1101
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:43,560
agree to an extent, which is 
that A apart from the very start

1102
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,200
of the show where you had like, 
you know Mel Bridgemore talking 

1103
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:50,760
about a Cryer and Peter Tennis, 
would Pier Vincent, people like 

1104
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:55,160
that as time progressed, the 
scripts for the decade? 

1105
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:59,280
Ratio. 
Went written really by the E 

1106
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:03,280
list writers which? 
It was kind of leads to the 

1107
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,760
belief that. 
I kind of share, which is he was

1108
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,600
a lot better than the. 
Material a lot of. 

1109
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,480
The time yes, he was, and he 
knew it. 

1110
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:14,200
But why do you think? 
That was. 

1111
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,720
I mean why? 
Wasn't you know what he being 

1112
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:24,600
written for by, you know, right.
The BBC, you know, started to 

1113
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:31,440
though that brought in huge 
viewing figures, you know, I 

1114
01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:41,640
mean, one time 1617 million. 
By about 197172 he had a 

1115
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:46,320
director called Colin Charman. 
Now Colin. 

1116
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:51,880
Was very young for a director at
the BBC, but he died young. 

1117
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,000
As well. 
And that's another part of this.

1118
01:14:55,890 --> 01:14:58,490
They then bought in John Warren 
and John Singer. 

1119
01:14:58,490 --> 01:15:04,810
Now out of the two, I think John
Warren wrote the bulk and they 

1120
01:15:04,810 --> 01:15:09,770
bounced ideas between them and 
they really did write some good 

1121
01:15:09,770 --> 01:15:15,570
stuff between them and. 
So much so that I think, and I 

1122
01:15:15,570 --> 01:15:19,210
can't find this out, but I've 
got a feeling he won a Silver 

1123
01:15:19,210 --> 01:15:24,490
Rose of Montreux, right? 
But I can't. 

1124
01:15:24,830 --> 01:15:27,190
Find that the the truth of that 
out. 

1125
01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:31,510
But I've got a feeling I. 
Seem to remember it somewhere in

1126
01:15:31,510 --> 01:15:33,870
my memory. 
Is it lodged as that that 

1127
01:15:34,030 --> 01:15:39,870
happened? 
And then a couple of thing two 

1128
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:43,750
couple of things happened one 
one was that a high that the 

1129
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:47,990
show was going great guns Warren
and Singer. 

1130
01:15:47,990 --> 01:15:50,990
Were producing the goods as far 
as the scripts were concerned 

1131
01:15:53,310 --> 01:15:56,510
and. 
Then the first thing that 

1132
01:15:56,510 --> 01:16:04,950
happened was Colin Charman died.
I think he was about 3435. 

1133
01:16:07,990 --> 01:16:10,670
Now Colin was very minimal in 
his directing. 

1134
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:15,270
He used three. 
Cameras on set, which dad liked 

1135
01:16:15,270 --> 01:16:19,870
because it meant that he could 
memorize the eye line all the 

1136
01:16:19,870 --> 01:16:21,870
time. 
He could, you know, knew which 

1137
01:16:21,870 --> 01:16:28,530
camera did what. 
Then they they got in Harold 

1138
01:16:28,530 --> 01:16:34,450
Snowd who was. 
Who worked with Martin Jarvis on

1139
01:16:34,490 --> 01:16:40,450
a series or two and. 
Was always quoting how wonderful

1140
01:16:40,450 --> 01:16:46,130
Martin Jarvis was to work with, 
and that was like a red rag to a

1141
01:16:46,130 --> 01:16:48,950
bull to dad, it was just you 
don't, you know? 

1142
01:16:48,990 --> 01:16:51,230
Yes, fine. 
But you're working with me now. 

1143
01:16:51,310 --> 01:16:53,430
You're not working with Martin 
Dos, you know. 

1144
01:16:53,430 --> 01:16:56,870
That was the view he took, but 
it was. 

1145
01:16:57,070 --> 01:17:03,390
Always this thing that and 
Harold, he's a lovely man. 

1146
01:17:04,110 --> 01:17:06,150
He's not a very well man at the 
moment. 

1147
01:17:06,150 --> 01:17:11,630
I know that. 
Quite ill I think, but. 

1148
01:17:12,110 --> 01:17:15,430
His style of directing grated on
dad. 

1149
01:17:16,310 --> 01:17:18,810
He used. 
Instead of three cameras, he 

1150
01:17:18,850 --> 01:17:22,170
used five. 
So that meant. 

1151
01:17:22,290 --> 01:17:26,410
You know what camera. 
So when they were doing the run 

1152
01:17:26,410 --> 01:17:29,450
through rehearsals what camera 
am I looking at now Harold? 

1153
01:17:30,130 --> 01:17:33,970
Why do we need so many cameras? 
And it would be like, well, 

1154
01:17:33,970 --> 01:17:38,130
because you know, and I and he 
said, well, I don't understand 

1155
01:17:38,130 --> 01:17:40,210
that was saying, I don't 
understand why. 

1156
01:17:42,890 --> 01:17:50,200
Then, of course, John Warren 
died and John Singer decided to 

1157
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,200
bring his son in as a 
scriptwriter. 

1158
01:17:55,080 --> 01:18:01,960
So you have Steven Singer and. 
The scripts at that point, I 

1159
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:06,440
think personally I've got 
nothing against John Singer or 

1160
01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:12,000
his son, but I do think they 
were lame, but certainly from 

1161
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:13,680
from the outside knowing nothing
about. 

1162
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,920
The personalities of the people,
there were a lot there just 

1163
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:19,120
seemed to. 
Be a lot of sketches that. 

1164
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:24,800
They didn't kind of go anywhere.
No, they petered out or they had

1165
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,320
a really good. 
Idea, but it kind of didn't 

1166
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:32,160
develop. 
Or the BBC didn't seem to skimp 

1167
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:36,960
on the production. 
Though I mean the production is.

1168
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:42,710
I mean sometimes you know the 
props and cast, the props, the 

1169
01:18:42,710 --> 01:18:48,150
cast and everything like that 
was was fine, but the hope was 

1170
01:18:48,150 --> 01:18:51,310
the name would carry it. 
No it did go weak. 

1171
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:54,750
I'm I'm you know, and it was 
noticeable and I think he 

1172
01:18:54,750 --> 01:19:03,470
noticed it and also over time he
became more annoyed. 

1173
01:19:03,470 --> 01:19:09,650
With the format that the same. 
Characters were being rehashed, 

1174
01:19:09,650 --> 01:19:13,530
rehashed, rehashed. 
I mean, I think. 

1175
01:19:13,530 --> 01:19:19,210
It was in 1979. 
He dropped Mandy on the. 

1176
01:19:20,170 --> 01:19:23,690
Yeah, because. 
As he and that came up in the 

1177
01:19:23,690 --> 01:19:28,170
Parkinson thing and he said you 
can't be a 60 something old man 

1178
01:19:28,850 --> 01:19:33,730
trying to play a yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1179
01:19:35,070 --> 01:19:36,910
Because the public sees through 
it. 

1180
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:40,110
I mean, you know, the last 
person to try anything, 

1181
01:19:40,110 --> 01:19:43,230
obviously not a sex pop, but the
last person to try and do 

1182
01:19:43,230 --> 01:19:45,990
something like that was Jimmy 
Clithero, who when he went from 

1183
01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:50,230
radio to television, they saw 
this rather elderly, yeah, 

1184
01:19:50,350 --> 01:19:54,270
schoolboy. 
And it didn't didn't. 

1185
01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:56,310
Crossover at all? 
Well, yeah. 

1186
01:19:57,350 --> 01:20:02,510
In fact, it looked slightly 
creepy, so he was aware. 

1187
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:06,240
And we talked about it. 
We left the BBC One night and he

1188
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:13,800
was in a very. 
Fed up, state? 

1189
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:18,360
Of mind and said what? 
And asked me what I thought and 

1190
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:20,800
I said I think you're right. 
I said I think it's that. 

1191
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,440
And I was told by his then wife 
that. 

1192
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:30,600
Not to say things like that ever
again, because. 

1193
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,640
I don't know why that was, but 
there we go. 

1194
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,400
But it was. 
It was telling that that was 

1195
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:44,320
about, that was about 781978 and
he was fed up that we was. 

1196
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,120
They were still doing the same 
things. 

1197
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:49,280
I think he was well aware that 
the scripts weren't funny. 

1198
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:57,720
So there's a there's an episode.
Of an incident related. 

1199
01:20:58,460 --> 01:21:00,660
By Bob Monkhouse in one of his 
books. 

1200
01:21:01,980 --> 01:21:04,060
His second book. 
Over the limit where? 

1201
01:21:04,660 --> 01:21:10,940
He talks about when they were 
taping celebrity squares and I 

1202
01:21:10,940 --> 01:21:12,180
think 79. 
I think. 

1203
01:21:14,140 --> 01:21:17,780
And so it was like the second 
round of celebrities, second 

1204
01:21:17,780 --> 01:21:20,660
time would be done. 
It's still a big production and 

1205
01:21:20,660 --> 01:21:24,300
your dad was taking part, you 
know, because he was moving and 

1206
01:21:24,300 --> 01:21:27,260
hopefully into another sort of 
phase of his phase out there. 

1207
01:21:29,090 --> 01:21:30,450
And I don't know if you've. 
Ever read this? 

1208
01:21:30,450 --> 01:21:34,850
But it's incredible. 
Little sort of vignette where he

1209
01:21:34,890 --> 01:21:38,450
has this time that he spends the
monk who says he spends with 

1210
01:21:38,450 --> 01:21:46,290
your dad talking and he just he 
comes across as just very angry 

1211
01:21:46,370 --> 01:21:52,770
and bitter about the BBC, but 
about comedy as a whole and 

1212
01:21:52,770 --> 01:21:54,450
about what people expect of 
them. 

1213
01:21:54,940 --> 01:21:57,380
Yeah, I think there was. 
There certainly was a lot of 

1214
01:21:57,380 --> 01:21:59,540
that he he was. 
He was. 

1215
01:21:59,620 --> 01:22:03,620
I say it was a very he was, it 
was a lot of things. 

1216
01:22:03,620 --> 01:22:07,420
He was a workaholic. 
He had a an incredible work 

1217
01:22:07,420 --> 01:22:09,460
ethic. 
He wouldn't turn anything down, 

1218
01:22:09,980 --> 01:22:13,540
which really and truly he should
have done at times. 

1219
01:22:13,540 --> 01:22:16,220
He should have paced himself 
more. 

1220
01:22:17,740 --> 01:22:21,300
You know the the old adage. 
More is less ohh less is more. 

1221
01:22:21,420 --> 01:22:22,500
Sorry. 
The other way around. 

1222
01:22:22,540 --> 01:22:26,630
Less is more. 
He was. 

1223
01:22:28,630 --> 01:22:33,790
He was, he was a depressive. 
There was a lot of anger. 

1224
01:22:36,110 --> 01:22:38,710
He. 
He. 

1225
01:22:39,310 --> 01:22:44,950
He was all sorts. 
He was he was a mess in a lot of

1226
01:22:44,950 --> 01:22:47,590
ways. 
I mean, he was trying to live up

1227
01:22:47,590 --> 01:22:51,310
to things. 
He was trying to constantly 

1228
01:22:51,310 --> 01:22:55,580
show. 
How good he was as a as a 

1229
01:22:55,620 --> 01:22:58,980
performer. 
But that meant that everything 

1230
01:22:58,980 --> 01:23:02,860
else in his life suffered. 
But when? 

1231
01:23:02,860 --> 01:23:05,180
When would you say? 
He was happy as professionally. 

1232
01:23:05,500 --> 01:23:11,300
In your experience, I would 
think when he first got his sort

1233
01:23:11,300 --> 01:23:15,620
of around the time of the it's a
square worlds, the Army game. 

1234
01:23:18,020 --> 01:23:23,140
And getting the first series of 
The Dick Emery Show, that was. 

1235
01:23:23,700 --> 01:23:26,780
That was, you know, I've 
arrived, I've arrived, but then 

1236
01:23:26,780 --> 01:23:29,540
you've got. 
After that you have to maintain 

1237
01:23:30,540 --> 01:23:34,740
your position. 
You know now you're at the sharp

1238
01:23:34,740 --> 01:23:39,420
end, so to be successful you 
have to keep doing things. 

1239
01:23:39,460 --> 01:23:47,410
And the BBC was great at 
pigeonholing and they wanted he 

1240
01:23:47,410 --> 01:23:50,690
fitted into well. 
You do like comedy as they 

1241
01:23:50,690 --> 01:23:53,290
thought, or comedy. 
So we'll keep you in the light 

1242
01:23:53,290 --> 01:23:58,890
entertainment box with the 
emphasis on light and then. 

1243
01:23:59,450 --> 01:24:02,330
You know, anything else? 
So when when he came up and said

1244
01:24:02,330 --> 01:24:05,410
I want to do something more 
substantial, which is the legacy

1245
01:24:05,410 --> 01:24:09,290
of murder, Jack of diamonds, 
when he wanted to do those, 

1246
01:24:09,290 --> 01:24:11,490
there was a lot. 
There was a sharp intake of 

1247
01:24:11,490 --> 01:24:14,910
breath all the way round. 
Well, this is. 

1248
01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:16,070
Where does it fit? 
Well, what is it? 

1249
01:24:16,150 --> 01:24:19,950
Well, it's a sort of comedy. 
It's not the comedy drama. 

1250
01:24:21,470 --> 01:24:25,590
Oh, not sure about that. 
Not sure about that. 

1251
01:24:25,590 --> 01:24:28,430
Where does it? 
Oh, this is it. 

1252
01:24:28,430 --> 01:24:31,510
Burn #26 Salmon Terrace. 
If it's the Frederick Oldfield 

1253
01:24:31,510 --> 01:24:33,510
inside, we've copped ourselves 5
grand. 

1254
01:24:42,830 --> 01:24:44,990
If you're from the council, I'm 
not paying another. 

1255
01:24:44,990 --> 01:24:47,350
Foul then, until you do 
something about my outside 

1256
01:24:47,350 --> 01:24:49,830
carsy. 
No, we're not actually, Madam. 

1257
01:24:49,830 --> 01:24:52,150
We're just making. 
Inquiries about a Mr. Frederick 

1258
01:24:52,150 --> 01:24:54,310
Oldfield. 
You're not from the law, are 

1259
01:24:54,350 --> 01:24:55,030
you? 
No. 

1260
01:24:55,550 --> 01:24:57,190
I thought not. 
He's too short. 

1261
01:24:57,190 --> 01:25:01,910
And fat to be a copper about 
this, Mr. Oldfield missus. 

1262
01:25:02,310 --> 01:25:04,150
Does he still live here? 
No, he's moved. 

1263
01:25:04,510 --> 01:25:05,670
Oh, you couldn't tell us where 
he's gone? 

1264
01:25:05,670 --> 01:25:08,310
To it is rather. 
How is it? 

1265
01:25:09,950 --> 01:25:11,430
Ought to be worth something 
then, won't it? 

1266
01:25:15,790 --> 01:25:16,630
Ask next door. 
Thank. 

1267
01:25:18,230 --> 01:25:20,510
You very much. 
Full of old world child. 

1268
01:25:20,510 --> 01:25:28,190
She was. 
Hope we don't run into many like

1269
01:25:28,190 --> 01:25:35,670
her in the course of our. 
Haven't we just been? 

1270
01:25:36,030 --> 01:25:38,270
I'm sure the lady your. 
Face is seem familiar. 

1271
01:25:38,780 --> 01:25:40,740
That's what you look next door. 
I do. 

1272
01:25:40,740 --> 01:25:41,740
I live. 
Here as well. 

1273
01:25:42,100 --> 01:25:45,940
You mean you've got two houses? 
Well, with 15 kids, the council 

1274
01:25:45,940 --> 01:25:49,260
had to do something. 
You have your husband, so. 

1275
01:25:49,420 --> 01:25:52,140
Nice. 
By that time. 

1276
01:25:52,140 --> 01:26:00,780
He was, what, 6566? 
And he was up against. 

1277
01:26:00,780 --> 01:26:04,380
It because the new come, new 
kids on the block were biting 

1278
01:26:04,380 --> 01:26:08,150
his heels. 
You know the not the 9:00 news 

1279
01:26:08,150 --> 01:26:12,190
crowd, the young ones and all 
that which they were throwing a 

1280
01:26:12,190 --> 01:26:14,870
lot more money at because it was
the new thing. 

1281
01:26:14,870 --> 01:26:16,870
It was going to last them a few 
more years. 

1282
01:26:19,190 --> 01:26:24,550
And so he was against say 
against the clock really. 

1283
01:26:25,550 --> 01:26:27,910
So when you moved, when you 
moved over to Thames. 

1284
01:26:28,710 --> 01:26:33,070
To do all this stuff right. 
The Brief 3 Series he did for 

1285
01:26:33,070 --> 01:26:36,160
Thames in 1980. 
Yeah, right. 

1286
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:38,320
Well, the BBC had an. 
Offer to him a contract. 

1287
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:43,880
The other thing was he thought 
he was under sole contract to 

1288
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:50,200
the BBC and he wasn't. 
He was on a. 

1289
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,680
Series by series contract. 
He thought he was under sole 

1290
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,560
contract for years and years and
he'd had offers from ITV. 

1291
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,320
He'd had offers from here there 
and everyone said no, no, no, 

1292
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:05,550
I'm under and was led to believe
he was under sole contract and I

1293
01:27:05,550 --> 01:27:09,750
do think that was part of his 
various. 

1294
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:16,230
Managers who? 
Did who were quite suddenly 

1295
01:27:16,230 --> 01:27:20,430
found they had a nice little 
sinecure because the BBC would 

1296
01:27:20,430 --> 01:27:22,390
come. 
Along and say there's another 13

1297
01:27:22,390 --> 01:27:26,150
weeks, thank you very much. 
And all we've got to do is book 

1298
01:27:26,150 --> 01:27:32,030
a pantomime, a few personal 
appearances, and book a summer 

1299
01:27:32,030 --> 01:27:34,660
season. 
Finally, you filled the diary 

1300
01:27:34,660 --> 01:27:37,580
for the year. 
Hey, hey, boys, we've made 

1301
01:27:37,580 --> 01:27:43,460
money. 
So I, you know, I think a lot of

1302
01:27:43,460 --> 01:27:46,700
them just sat back and instead 
of talking, where do you want to

1303
01:27:46,700 --> 01:27:47,820
go? 
What do you want to do? 

1304
01:27:47,820 --> 01:27:50,540
Because you've done this now is 
there anything else you want to 

1305
01:27:50,540 --> 01:27:56,100
do? 
And I think too they I think it 

1306
01:27:56,100 --> 01:28:00,660
was a lot of bad advice. 
Around. 

1307
01:28:01,380 --> 01:28:04,420
In fact, I'm bloody sure of it. 
Pardon my swearing, but I'm 

1308
01:28:04,740 --> 01:28:08,420
absolutely convinced with Edward
for me. 

1309
01:28:08,620 --> 01:28:13,300
Usually, yeah. 
But I am. 

1310
01:28:13,820 --> 01:28:19,540
I do think that he was poorly 
managed and I think that the 

1311
01:28:19,540 --> 01:28:23,100
cinecure aspect of people just 
sitting back, cuz it was 

1312
01:28:23,100 --> 01:28:28,420
comfortable, it was predictable.
And was he happy that he'd moved

1313
01:28:28,420 --> 01:28:31,150
to Thames? 
And he was grateful for the 

1314
01:28:31,150 --> 01:28:35,070
chance it gave him an out 2-3 
hour long shows to do, but it 

1315
01:28:35,070 --> 01:28:41,310
was more of a variety show. 
Yeah, he could sing. 

1316
01:28:41,310 --> 01:28:44,350
And he could show his voice and 
he could do all that. 

1317
01:28:44,870 --> 01:28:46,710
How well they were received at 
the time. 

1318
01:28:46,710 --> 01:28:52,310
Because ITV was a bit of a 
comedian's graveyard. 

1319
01:28:52,910 --> 01:28:56,390
Yeah, you know, Morcombe wise. 
Never had the same success at 

1320
01:28:56,390 --> 01:29:00,350
Thames as they did with the beep
the. 

1321
01:29:01,030 --> 01:29:05,470
Yeah, all these people. 
Never had the same success that 

1322
01:29:05,470 --> 01:29:08,390
the BBC invested a lot into 
light entertainment. 

1323
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:12,910
I TV not so much, you know. 
Yes, they could make a big 

1324
01:29:12,910 --> 01:29:19,150
splashy show like Stanley Baxter
and the Benny Hills. 

1325
01:29:19,150 --> 01:29:22,150
But the Benny Hills, if you 
notice that they're all the same

1326
01:29:22,150 --> 01:29:25,150
format week in, week out, week 
in, week out. 

1327
01:29:25,590 --> 01:29:30,060
And it's the same thing with the
Yakety Sax and running, you 

1328
01:29:30,100 --> 01:29:34,300
know, the the fast crank camera 
and everything like that and 

1329
01:29:34,300 --> 01:29:36,460
everybody, you know, Oh, that's 
funny. 

1330
01:29:37,900 --> 01:29:42,180
Yeah. 
And I think the specials that 

1331
01:29:42,180 --> 01:29:45,140
your dad did. 
For James, were very visually 

1332
01:29:45,140 --> 01:29:47,220
very similar to that. 
Yeah, they were. 

1333
01:29:47,220 --> 01:29:49,940
They were, you know, high, high 
gloss. 

1334
01:29:50,380 --> 01:29:52,460
You know you got Linda Carter 
over. 

1335
01:29:52,460 --> 01:29:57,960
From the States, Wonder Woman, 
and to be the guest star in one 

1336
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:02,880
of them and things like that. 
But they were, they were what 

1337
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,920
they were, but they did. 
They showed him that there was a

1338
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:12,040
world outside which he hadn't. 
Which he'd been led to believe, 

1339
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,280
As I say, he'd been led to 
believe that he was tied 

1340
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:19,360
completely to the BBC. 
And it wasn't. 

1341
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:23,400
Until, you know, he had. 
He'd had no offer from the BBC, 

1342
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:28,460
but he did the the three shows. 
He got paid more for doing those

1343
01:30:28,460 --> 01:30:31,340
three shows than he would have 
done if he'd done a series for 

1344
01:30:31,340 --> 01:30:34,740
the BBC. 
He wasn't tempted. 

1345
01:30:34,740 --> 01:30:36,380
To propose to. 
Lynda Carter? 

1346
01:30:40,100 --> 01:30:42,460
No, no. 
Yes, you can imagine. 

1347
01:30:43,740 --> 01:30:47,500
I can just imagine this little 
hopeful face poking down the I 

1348
01:30:47,500 --> 01:30:52,060
think it would have been. 
I think it would have been how 

1349
01:30:52,060 --> 01:30:55,580
can I fascinated by her. 
That's all so tall. 

1350
01:30:56,580 --> 01:30:58,260
Oh, you're so. 
I may be short, but I'm 

1351
01:30:58,340 --> 01:31:01,340
beautifully. 
Tell me this is a very. 

1352
01:31:01,340 --> 01:31:04,100
Obvious question. 
I'm going to ask you do you get 

1353
01:31:04,100 --> 01:31:05,860
a lot of fun out of turning into
Wonder Woman? 

1354
01:31:06,300 --> 01:31:08,820
Oh, sure. 
I mean, it makes a change. 

1355
01:31:09,780 --> 01:31:12,180
Yes, yes, I'll tell. 
You what? 

1356
01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:15,380
I've had to go at this. 
Turning around, you've got now 

1357
01:31:15,460 --> 01:31:17,140
that's something I would. 
Love to see. 

1358
01:31:17,740 --> 01:31:18,620
What happened? 
Nothing. 

1359
01:31:18,940 --> 01:31:21,460
But. 
Maybe while you're here? 

1360
01:31:21,820 --> 01:31:24,140
If I had to go, it might work. 
Will that be all right with you?

1361
01:31:24,820 --> 01:31:25,300
You're kidding? 
Yeah. 

1362
01:31:25,300 --> 01:31:27,260
No, you're going to have a go. 
You're going to twirl around. 

1363
01:31:27,260 --> 01:31:28,540
You stand back and do a twirl. 
That's. 

1364
01:31:28,660 --> 01:31:29,780
What? 
I got you ready. 

1365
01:31:46,060 --> 01:31:49,300
I said I'm looking for a nice. 
Strong, powerful man, Do you 

1366
01:31:49,300 --> 01:31:52,380
know if any? 
Oh sure, my swimming pool is 

1367
01:31:52,380 --> 01:31:53,420
just. 
Full of them. 

1368
01:31:54,750 --> 01:31:57,190
Do you think I could have one? 
Or even half of that. 

1369
01:31:58,950 --> 01:32:01,310
I'll see what I can. 
Do you Are so? 

1370
01:32:01,710 --> 01:32:04,790
Beautiful. 
So are you, Miss Eddie, the 

1371
01:32:04,870 --> 01:32:10,070
Brooch and everything. 
Sensation isn't tall and you 

1372
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:13,270
couldn't. 
Sing as well makes you sick to 

1373
01:32:13,270 --> 01:32:18,550
your stomach. 
His fit wife. 

1374
01:32:19,230 --> 01:32:24,150
I've not spoken a word to her 
since the father died in 1983. 

1375
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:30,120
I mean, I've no idea, but all 
the shows where they've 

1376
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:37,600
interviewed wives and it's 
usually Vicky and then the his 

1377
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:43,080
partner. 
After Josephine Faye. 

1378
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:47,760
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, they. 
Always speak, you know, very 

1379
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:50,120
warmly of it. 
And I have to say, my mother 

1380
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:53,680
would have crawled over, broken.
Glass for him. 

1381
01:32:56,780 --> 01:33:03,340
He had the most women who had 
dealings with him had this. 

1382
01:33:03,900 --> 01:33:10,980
He had a charm. 
He was extraordinarily charming 

1383
01:33:11,380 --> 01:33:14,740
and it comes through the screen 
as well, though, yeah. 

1384
01:33:15,100 --> 01:33:17,500
Yeah, it's not. 
There are not. 

1385
01:33:17,540 --> 01:33:20,860
Many performers who can create 
that sort of a no. 

1386
01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:24,760
To use a kid, if well, he was 
one of the reciprocity between 

1387
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:28,280
an actual audience in a in the 
living room and a screen. 

1388
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,200
And he could certainly do that. 
Yeah, he could read an audience 

1389
01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:35,160
too. 
It was very good when he did. 

1390
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:40,840
His personal shows, you know, 
summer season, season shows, he 

1391
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:44,040
could walk on stage and then he 
said there was a, he said. 

1392
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:47,080
There is always a feeling, you 
know, if you're going to be give

1393
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:51,160
them a little bit more or just 
you know, because the what 

1394
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:55,240
you're getting back over the 
Footlights, yeah. 

1395
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:59,880
And he knew. 
Implicitly and you know, the 

1396
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:03,320
show would go according, you 
know, if it if it was, if it 

1397
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:07,200
wasn't a good audience, then it 
would be he would go through 

1398
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:16,000
things a little quicker, 
marginally quicker than than he 

1399
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:17,750
would. 
Normally, so you can just 

1400
01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:19,430
imagine these blockbuster 
summer. 

1401
01:34:20,830 --> 01:34:23,950
Yeah. 
Well, they were a big deal. 

1402
01:34:23,950 --> 01:34:26,790
I mean, seaside theaters were 
huge. 

1403
01:34:26,790 --> 01:34:30,350
Some of them. 
I mean the Winter Gardens, 

1404
01:34:30,350 --> 01:34:31,990
Bournemouth, That was quite a 
big one. 

1405
01:34:32,990 --> 01:34:35,950
I think the festival theater at 
Paignton's quite large. 

1406
01:34:36,590 --> 01:34:38,430
And some of the Blackpool ones 
are huge. 

1407
01:34:38,430 --> 01:34:40,190
Well, yeah, not to mention 
you're always gonna see. 

1408
01:34:40,190 --> 01:34:42,230
Not to mention. 
The Winter Gardens at Blackpool.

1409
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:46,200
Yeah, you know, I mean they were
just, they were just huge 

1410
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,600
places. 
I've got those as strange one. 

1411
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:56,600
He did a show, a summer show, at
the Winter Gardens in 1964, and 

1412
01:34:56,760 --> 01:34:59,320
he was. 
Black in Blackpool. 

1413
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:02,800
At the Winter Gardens and he was
on the bill. 

1414
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:06,720
With the Dave Cloud five which 
was the. 

1415
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:10,400
Weirdest thing. 
See a group with a chart group 

1416
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:16,660
doing summer season. 
I'm in pieces, bits and pieces 

1417
01:35:18,380 --> 01:35:21,660
just on that because. 
We we always try to shamelessly 

1418
01:35:21,660 --> 01:35:24,340
shoehorn in a reference to The 
Beatles in this podcast. 

1419
01:35:24,340 --> 01:35:27,260
Yeah. 
Did he ever have any reason to 

1420
01:35:27,820 --> 01:35:33,060
work on the same bill as The 
Beatles or No, No, I mean the 

1421
01:35:33,060 --> 01:35:35,020
only thing I say. 
The only thing he did with The 

1422
01:35:35,020 --> 01:35:37,940
Beatles was the Yellow 
Submarine, of course. 

1423
01:35:37,940 --> 01:35:39,940
Well, yeah, Well. 
Well. 

1424
01:35:40,060 --> 01:35:44,940
Except the actually put a stink.
Yes, and they edited out. 

1425
01:35:44,940 --> 01:35:47,540
His bit where he did the thing, 
but you know, I mean, he did. 

1426
01:35:47,940 --> 01:35:53,660
Let me see in that he did one of
the Blue Meanies, Max. 

1427
01:35:53,860 --> 01:35:57,140
Yep, he did the mayor. 
Of pepperland? 

1428
01:35:57,540 --> 01:35:59,940
Yep, he did. 
He did 3. 

1429
01:36:00,660 --> 01:36:04,860
Yeah, he did 3IN that Lance 
purseful. 

1430
01:36:04,860 --> 01:36:07,020
Was the captain of the Yellow 
Submarine? 

1431
01:36:09,550 --> 01:36:10,950
What's the? 
Name of a Tony. 

1432
01:36:10,950 --> 01:36:12,950
And jealous and. 
There was the guy that was on 

1433
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:16,190
the rug from the from the. 
From the police as well, you 

1434
01:36:16,190 --> 01:36:19,030
know about this? 
Oh, Oh yes, I think there was. 

1435
01:36:19,350 --> 01:36:20,550
There was. 
There was one of the voice 

1436
01:36:20,550 --> 01:36:25,270
artistes on the other. 
Submarine was on the Lam at one 

1437
01:36:25,270 --> 01:36:27,150
point. 
Yeah, don't cry though. 

1438
01:36:27,190 --> 01:36:29,950
It's just extraordinary. 
But. 

1439
01:36:29,950 --> 01:36:31,910
Then of course, they only shared
with The Beatles. 

1440
01:36:31,910 --> 01:36:35,190
Remember, because they'd refused
to do the Voices. 

1441
01:36:35,710 --> 01:36:38,400
Yes, they had because they so, 
yeah, they were. 

1442
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,240
They were contracted. 
To do 3. 

1443
01:36:40,240 --> 01:36:44,000
Films, yeah. 
And they've done help. 

1444
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:48,920
They've done Hard Day's Night 
Help And they, they, they they 

1445
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:50,680
were saying you've got to do a 
third film. 

1446
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:53,240
You've got to do a third film. 
And then none of them wanted to 

1447
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:55,600
do another third, do a third 
film. 

1448
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,760
And so, so I'm suggesting, well,
why don't you do a cartoon? 

1449
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:06,800
And it was the same production 
house, I think, that did Popeye 

1450
01:37:08,780 --> 01:37:11,460
theme features or something back
to the goons. 

1451
01:37:12,860 --> 01:37:17,820
Connection Yeah, yeah. 
So and I, we went. 

1452
01:37:17,820 --> 01:37:21,620
They'd rescreened it a couple 
two or three years back and we 

1453
01:37:21,620 --> 01:37:24,500
went along to watch it. 
It was fascinating to see it on 

1454
01:37:24,500 --> 01:37:27,140
the big screen. 
Yeah, but they wouldn't voice 

1455
01:37:27,140 --> 01:37:28,060
the. 
They wouldn't voice the. 

1456
01:37:29,300 --> 01:37:31,060
Cameras. 
So they just, yeah, they just 

1457
01:37:31,060 --> 01:37:31,900
appeared. 
In that little. 

1458
01:37:31,900 --> 01:37:36,330
Tiny little bit at the end. 
Yes, I think, I think one of 

1459
01:37:36,330 --> 01:37:39,250
them was Jeffrey Hughes. 
That's right. 

1460
01:37:39,290 --> 01:37:41,890
That's right. 
And I'm trying to remember, is 

1461
01:37:41,890 --> 01:37:45,970
it Paul Angelis at all? 
You know Paul Angelis, He was 

1462
01:37:45,970 --> 01:37:46,370
in. 
It, Yeah. 

1463
01:37:46,370 --> 01:37:52,490
Paul Angelis And it was just, 
but it was a strange little 

1464
01:37:52,490 --> 01:37:54,370
thing. 
But I never knew, you know, I 

1465
01:37:54,370 --> 01:37:57,650
was at school at the time and I 
thought, well, that would have 

1466
01:37:57,650 --> 01:38:00,450
been a feather in me cap if I'd 
known that one, you know? 

1467
01:38:00,450 --> 01:38:02,930
But now he kept it a dark 
secret. 

1468
01:38:03,980 --> 01:38:05,380
I was able to figure they 
shouted. 

1469
01:38:05,380 --> 01:38:08,340
About that, yeah. 
To him it was just a job. 

1470
01:38:08,380 --> 01:38:12,020
And also, you see he was a bit 
of a music snob. 

1471
01:38:12,020 --> 01:38:14,860
Oh really? 
So he liked his. 

1472
01:38:15,380 --> 01:38:22,910
He loved opera and things like 
opera and jazz. 

1473
01:38:23,270 --> 01:38:25,350
Not, not modern jazz. 
Not nothing. 

1474
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:29,910
Have on God, thank you. 
But you know, oh, The Beatles, 

1475
01:38:29,910 --> 01:38:32,630
oh God, you know it's this that 
and the other And to him they 

1476
01:38:32,630 --> 01:38:35,150
weren't they weren't anything to
do with the entertainment 

1477
01:38:35,150 --> 01:38:36,150
business at all. 
Wow. 

1478
01:38:38,310 --> 01:38:40,150
You know I. 
Oh God, you know the weird 

1479
01:38:40,150 --> 01:38:43,430
childhood I had because I 
remember my mother when watching

1480
01:38:43,830 --> 01:38:46,990
The Beatles on TV. 
When I think one of the their 

1481
01:38:46,990 --> 01:38:51,270
first appearance on TV, my 
mother sat there with a friend 

1482
01:38:51,270 --> 01:39:01,170
of hers who in fact was my now. 
There's a there's a, I'll tell 

1483
01:39:01,170 --> 01:39:03,170
you after it. 
Anyway, they both watched this 

1484
01:39:03,170 --> 01:39:08,410
performance and they sat there 
in Stony silence and it got to 

1485
01:39:08,410 --> 01:39:11,450
the end and the audience 
applauded. 

1486
01:39:11,850 --> 01:39:15,250
And you know, nothing, Nothing 
over the top either. 

1487
01:39:16,130 --> 01:39:20,320
And she just turned to her 
friend and said, well, that's 

1488
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:22,640
the end of entertainment as we 
know it. 

1489
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:25,120
Wow. 
And then you look. 

1490
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:27,320
At you look at. 
Them in their Pierre, Cardin. 

1491
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:31,440
Suits. 
And they're very short hair, 

1492
01:39:31,720 --> 01:39:34,600
yeah. 
Combed forward and not a quick 

1493
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:39,200
insight. 
And they were just, they were 

1494
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:42,640
extreme. 
They were almost How dare they? 

1495
01:39:43,310 --> 01:39:46,350
And then a few years later when 
they're singing Michelle My 

1496
01:39:46,350 --> 01:39:49,270
Bell, she mother, mother thought
they were the best thing since 

1497
01:39:49,310 --> 01:39:53,910
sliced bread. 
It world is very strange now. 

1498
01:39:54,030 --> 01:39:58,750
He isn't even the stranger thing
about about that incident and in

1499
01:39:58,750 --> 01:40:02,470
the future and moving forward. 
The woman that she's sitting 

1500
01:40:02,470 --> 01:40:07,310
next to is her, her motherinlaw 
from my mother's second 

1501
01:40:07,310 --> 01:40:12,390
marriage, my father being as her
husband and. 

1502
01:40:13,730 --> 01:40:18,730
She is her, my mother's 
brother-in-law, this woman's 

1503
01:40:18,810 --> 01:40:23,610
other son, her youngest son. 
And it's called Andrew, a man 

1504
01:40:23,610 --> 01:40:27,570
called Andrew Carr. 
And if you look up. 

1505
01:40:27,690 --> 01:40:30,370
Andrew Carr in connection with 
Glastonbury. 

1506
01:40:31,610 --> 01:40:34,370
He's the man who came up. 
With the idea of the pyramid 

1507
01:40:34,370 --> 01:40:40,800
stage and where it should be 
sighted on the farm, all right, 

1508
01:40:41,480 --> 01:40:44,520
Because he said the lay lines 
cross here and if you put the 

1509
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:49,800
stage here it will be a success.
There you go. 

1510
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:52,320
That's flawed. 
You're a fascinating man, Nick. 

1511
01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:59,360
He was a fascinating man because
he was the personal assistant to

1512
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:03,120
Winston Churchill's son very 
briefly and he got the job 

1513
01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:08,010
because he fixed the bloke's. 
Boiler so euphemism. 

1514
01:41:09,450 --> 01:41:10,770
Yeah, no, seriously. 
He did. 

1515
01:41:10,810 --> 01:41:13,850
He went, he arrived there and he
was rang the doorbell and there 

1516
01:41:13,850 --> 01:41:16,090
was no response. 
But he heard this shouting and 

1517
01:41:16,090 --> 01:41:18,210
swearing coming from a cellar 
door. 

1518
01:41:19,250 --> 01:41:22,410
So he put his head around the 
door and there's there's 

1519
01:41:22,450 --> 01:41:24,210
Randolph Churchill. 
Yeah, Randolph. 

1520
01:41:24,210 --> 01:41:27,890
Churchill messing around and 
swearing and cursing and kicking

1521
01:41:27,890 --> 01:41:31,250
this boiler and he'd gone there 
to. 

1522
01:41:31,250 --> 01:41:35,170
Interview him and she was trying
to be a reporter and he said if 

1523
01:41:35,170 --> 01:41:38,490
you fix this, I will employ you 
as my personal assistant 

1524
01:41:38,930 --> 01:41:39,930
assistant. 
So he did. 

1525
01:41:39,930 --> 01:41:47,370
He fixed it and then became he 
and Churchill's granddaughter 

1526
01:41:48,770 --> 01:41:52,490
became an. 
Item they went off to Scotland 

1527
01:41:52,490 --> 01:41:55,570
and ran across. 
He became a bit of a hippie. 

1528
01:41:55,970 --> 01:42:05,220
Went to a party at with Princess
Margaret and had, should we say,

1529
01:42:05,300 --> 01:42:09,140
smoked some very interesting 
tobacco and the sellers were 

1530
01:42:09,180 --> 01:42:11,100
probably there. 
Well, yes, more. 

1531
01:42:11,140 --> 01:42:15,060
Than likely anyway. 
So he's sitting next to Prince 

1532
01:42:15,060 --> 01:42:18,140
Margaret and. 
He's saying, you see, he said 

1533
01:42:19,820 --> 01:42:26,060
Jesus, the Lord Jesus, he comes 
from the planet heaven, planet 

1534
01:42:26,060 --> 01:42:29,010
heaven. 
You know, and she's saying and. 

1535
01:42:29,010 --> 01:42:31,930
She's listening intently to what
he's saying, he finished. 

1536
01:42:31,930 --> 01:42:33,370
And she said, what do you think 
of that? 

1537
01:42:33,370 --> 01:42:35,290
She said. 
Very interesting, and I'll be 

1538
01:42:35,290 --> 01:42:38,090
sure to pass on your comments to
the Archbishop of Campbell. 

1539
01:42:42,290 --> 01:42:44,850
So there's one one last. 
Thing I want to bring in here 

1540
01:42:45,250 --> 01:42:48,450
for me because I find that I've 
always found this fascinating, 

1541
01:42:48,450 --> 01:42:52,810
which is the Royal Variety. 
Show in 1970. 

1542
01:42:53,370 --> 01:42:56,770
Ah, yes. 
Which I think must. 

1543
01:42:56,770 --> 01:42:58,850
Be the only. 
Occasion, Yes. 

1544
01:42:58,890 --> 01:43:03,690
When a Royal Variety Show has 
been compared by one man? 

1545
01:43:04,210 --> 01:43:05,050
Yes. 
Sad. 

1546
01:43:06,090 --> 01:43:08,410
Doing different. 
Characters, yes. 

1547
01:43:08,890 --> 01:43:11,850
And then appearing as the top of
the bill or near as the top of 

1548
01:43:11,850 --> 01:43:13,330
the bill. 
That's right. 

1549
01:43:14,250 --> 01:43:18,250
And it's also the one where I 
think it's the one where he did 

1550
01:43:18,250 --> 01:43:24,230
Mandy and. 
Turned to the Royal Box as he 

1551
01:43:24,230 --> 01:43:28,310
was walking off stage and walked
off stage towards the Royal Box 

1552
01:43:28,310 --> 01:43:30,990
and looked up at the Duke of 
Edinburgh and said hello sailor.

1553
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:42,230
And I think that that happened. 
Yeah. 

1554
01:43:43,750 --> 01:43:45,950
It's. 
It's of all the override issues,

1555
01:43:45,950 --> 01:43:49,710
of which some are very good, 
some are pretty middling, some 

1556
01:43:49,710 --> 01:43:53,950
are very boring. 
Just it was just a very strict, 

1557
01:43:54,950 --> 01:43:57,990
it has an atmosphere already. 
That show in 1973 have been a 

1558
01:43:57,990 --> 01:44:01,110
bit belegal. 
You know, because of the. 

1559
01:44:01,110 --> 01:44:03,550
State of the country. 
I suppose because of all the 

1560
01:44:03,550 --> 01:44:07,430
things that have been on. 
Oh yeah, that would have been 

1561
01:44:07,430 --> 01:44:09,910
when he. 
Was at the top of the, you know,

1562
01:44:10,190 --> 01:44:12,590
the peak of his career? 
Absolutely. 

1563
01:44:12,590 --> 01:44:14,150
Yeah. 
The audience just go. 

1564
01:44:14,430 --> 01:44:17,150
Crazy for him. 
And it's always like everybody 

1565
01:44:17,150 --> 01:44:22,320
else is just a distraction. 
I don't suppose any of you. 

1566
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:24,000
Seen any purse glove about, have
you? 

1567
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:26,480
He's a little bald headed fella 
about. 

1568
01:44:26,480 --> 01:44:28,880
My age. 
And he we're up here on his stag

1569
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:32,400
night, you see, and I've lost 
him. 

1570
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:36,160
We're getting married. 
Tomorrow you see well, as he 

1571
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:38,480
said. 
He's he's sold his wild oats. 

1572
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:42,560
About time he's settled down. 
It's a nice little thing, no? 

1573
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:45,280
Little slip of a girl. 
She is well, she's only been 

1574
01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:47,200
drawing her pension for the last
two years. 

1575
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:49,960
No. 
They're not. 

1576
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:51,360
They're not gonna. 
They're not gonna. 

1577
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:58,400
I know I won't be long, he. 
Was really at the top of his. 

1578
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:03,720
Game then that was the time when
he was, as I say, I mean 73. 

1579
01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:08,400
That would have been that was a 
N73, I think, yeah. 

1580
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:13,640
Yeah, that's usually, yeah. 
And by that time he'd had a 

1581
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:22,780
coronary in 1972, Christmas 72, 
and also had had a cataract 

1582
01:45:22,780 --> 01:45:26,060
operation, I think as well, 
which in those days was extreme 

1583
01:45:28,140 --> 01:45:33,860
and he was really. 
Riding high, I think his ratings

1584
01:45:33,860 --> 01:45:38,420
were way up with Morecambe and 
Wise and that's the fact you see

1585
01:45:38,420 --> 01:45:40,140
this. 
Is the thing with the BBC they 

1586
01:45:40,140 --> 01:45:45,220
never have ever dreaded. 
I get a little bit angry about 

1587
01:45:45,220 --> 01:45:50,720
it, but I'm entitled. 
He, he never ever gets the 

1588
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:53,600
credit that he should do from 
the BBC. 

1589
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:57,120
They talk about him in a rather 
disparaging way. 

1590
01:45:58,960 --> 01:46:06,400
You know it was oh we could 13 
weeks to him and we knew he 

1591
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:11,400
would deliver, but they know 
that's as far as the compliments

1592
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,000
go. 
I think that's I've always 

1593
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:15,440
thought that's been. 
Partly to do with. 

1594
01:46:16,700 --> 01:46:19,860
An ongoing snobbery. 
Not just with the BBC, I should 

1595
01:46:19,860 --> 01:46:21,860
say, but with comment. 
You know, with commentators and 

1596
01:46:21,860 --> 01:46:26,180
writers. 
Yeah, because his demeanor. 

1597
01:46:26,180 --> 01:46:29,740
And his attitude and his 
audience and his material, We're

1598
01:46:29,740 --> 01:46:33,980
pretty working class. 
They were, and you just weren't 

1599
01:46:33,980 --> 01:46:37,300
going to get Ken of. 
Tynan or or something like that.

1600
01:46:37,300 --> 01:46:41,060
Writing appreciations of Dick 
Emory the same way they did 

1601
01:46:41,060 --> 01:46:46,520
about Eric Morcombe? 
No, And I mean Morcom, Eric. 

1602
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:53,000
Morcom was a turd of force. 
You know, I mean, he was the he 

1603
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:57,360
was the main part of that act, 
you know, without. 

1604
01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:04,720
Ernie Wise wasn't done. 
It was Eric that really carried 

1605
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:09,240
you. 
In my humble opinion, I agree. 

1606
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:12,880
I agree with you and I get. 
I get House of protests from 

1607
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:14,040
people when I say that sort of 
thing. 

1608
01:47:14,620 --> 01:47:18,860
No, but it's I think it's true. 
Oh no, it's absolutely true. 

1609
01:47:19,340 --> 01:47:21,220
You know what I mean. 
It's a truism. 

1610
01:47:22,060 --> 01:47:28,220
I heard this before. 
I saw GAIL, his daughter, do a 

1611
01:47:28,220 --> 01:47:34,380
talk, Eric. 
He told two stories. 

1612
01:47:34,380 --> 01:47:36,980
About her home life that just 
have me in fits. 

1613
01:47:38,140 --> 01:47:43,300
One is that she'd? 
Seen this boy, the young teenage

1614
01:47:43,300 --> 01:47:47,220
girl, and she had the hearts and
she gave him her phone number 

1615
01:47:48,460 --> 01:47:51,900
and she, you know, with the hope
that he would call her and they 

1616
01:47:51,900 --> 01:47:54,380
could arrange, but it said the 
one thing you always did was you

1617
01:47:54,380 --> 01:47:56,540
always tried to be the first of 
the phone. 

1618
01:48:01,740 --> 01:48:04,900
So the phone rings and she's not
quick enough. 

1619
01:48:06,820 --> 01:48:09,100
And the conversation. 
Apparently went like this. 

1620
01:48:10,190 --> 01:48:13,270
And it's sort of like this 
little tremulous voice. 

1621
01:48:13,990 --> 01:48:17,150
Hello, can I speak to GAIL? 
And this voice says, well, you 

1622
01:48:17,150 --> 01:48:18,710
could, son, but we don't have a 
phone. 

1623
01:48:18,990 --> 01:48:20,870
Oh, right. 
OK, I'm hung up. 

1624
01:48:26,310 --> 01:48:30,550
And another time she got a 
boyfriend that she she she had a

1625
01:48:30,550 --> 01:48:35,350
boyfriend who had a sports car, 
a little MG. 

1626
01:48:35,390 --> 01:48:40,240
Or something. 
And he turned up at her house, 

1627
01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:44,240
and he was wearing brown leather
trousers and a brown leather 

1628
01:48:44,240 --> 01:48:47,560
jacket. 
And he knocked on the door, and 

1629
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:54,560
he got to the door first. 
And he opened it and he said, 

1630
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:56,040
I've come to pick up GAIL, he 
said. 

1631
01:48:56,040 --> 01:48:58,000
Oh, come in son. 
You look like a wallet. 

1632
01:49:06,440 --> 01:49:10,360
Yeah, before we. 
You asked me about Benzine, 

1633
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:15,600
yeah. 
Benzine I'm just reading his 

1634
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:17,680
biography, but I do remember my 
mom. 

1635
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:20,680
My mom saw him on a couple of 
occasions. 

1636
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:26,440
We lived in the same round, the 
same area and he knew her of her

1637
01:49:26,440 --> 01:49:29,880
and though we didn't sort of see
each other as sort of mix as 

1638
01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:33,670
families, very often she saw him
and was you know and it always 

1639
01:49:33,790 --> 01:49:37,830
you know hello, how are you and 
all this and. 

1640
01:49:38,390 --> 01:49:44,070
He told us some stories. 
And, you know, he told her about

1641
01:49:44,070 --> 01:49:47,910
when they were doing Square 
World, and this is worth it. 

1642
01:49:47,910 --> 01:49:52,190
This is, you know, they did 
various things like they sailed 

1643
01:49:52,190 --> 01:49:55,750
a Chinese junk up the River 
Thames and fired a cannon at the

1644
01:49:55,870 --> 01:49:59,550
Houses of Parliament, which 
didn't go down. 

1645
01:49:59,550 --> 01:50:04,610
Well, I have to say. 
And then there was another set 

1646
01:50:04,610 --> 01:50:09,970
time where he wanted to do film,
make an episode. 

1647
01:50:09,970 --> 01:50:16,570
One of the episodes with a scene
about Moby Dick and. 

1648
01:50:16,890 --> 01:50:23,170
Wanted to build a model whale, 
but he had to fill. 

1649
01:50:23,330 --> 01:50:29,730
Fill out a an application for a 
license for a vessel. 

1650
01:50:31,430 --> 01:50:34,870
And so he approached the Thames 
Conservancy and he got the light

1651
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:36,990
of the paperwork and he had to 
fill it out. 

1652
01:50:37,030 --> 01:50:49,310
Length of craft 30 feet beam. 88
feet draft, 2 feet inboard or 

1653
01:50:49,310 --> 01:50:55,430
outboard motor inboard. 
Does this craft have a toilet on

1654
01:50:55,430 --> 01:50:56,670
board? 
No. 

1655
01:50:58,300 --> 01:51:02,260
And then it said overall 
description of craft. 

1656
01:51:22,380 --> 01:51:03,860
He's wasted doing this. 
Great white whale. 

1657
01:51:03,860 --> 01:51:14,540
It was turned down, but he was 
he was a marvellous man and he 

1658
01:51:14,540 --> 01:51:18,860
encouraged dad and he actually 
puts pushed for dad to have his 

1659
01:51:18,860 --> 01:51:22,180
own series. 
He. 

1660
01:51:23,700 --> 01:51:27,980
He needs his own series and that
was the driver. 

1661
01:51:29,320 --> 01:51:32,160
So if he'd lived. 
And you know. 

1662
01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:36,680
Had another say. 1020 years. 
What do you think he'd have done

1663
01:51:37,480 --> 01:51:38,720
Now? 
It's funny you should say this 

1664
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:41,800
because there was he did an 
interview for Times Time to use 

1665
01:51:41,800 --> 01:51:46,160
television with Tony Benbow and 
he talked. 

1666
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:49,200
About what he would like to do 
and various things. 

1667
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:56,880
Direct write with the main. 
Things and do other projects 

1668
01:51:57,710 --> 01:52:02,110
like I think straight acting 
RSC. 

1669
01:52:02,110 --> 01:52:04,430
Do you reckon like? 
Richard Bryan. 

1670
01:52:04,710 --> 01:52:06,510
I think he might. 
Have, I think. 

1671
01:52:06,510 --> 01:52:10,150
He might have done character 
acting, full proper character 

1672
01:52:10,150 --> 01:52:14,350
acting, maintain an entire 
character for an entire show 

1673
01:52:15,750 --> 01:52:20,070
without having to do swapping 
characters and all the rest of 

1674
01:52:20,070 --> 01:52:23,990
it, but that would have been, I 
think, I think, his. 

1675
01:52:24,310 --> 01:52:27,330
This is why I always think he 
was let down by his, the 

1676
01:52:27,330 --> 01:52:29,010
managers. 
I think he should have been able

1677
01:52:29,010 --> 01:52:30,930
to do that. 
I think they should have 

1678
01:52:30,930 --> 01:52:33,370
encouraged him to do that and 
look for work. 

1679
01:52:33,930 --> 01:52:38,250
I think he was, as I said. 
I think it was a terrible 

1680
01:52:38,250 --> 01:52:47,010
pressure of maintaining success 
that drove him hard, but as 

1681
01:52:47,010 --> 01:52:49,890
directing and writing were two 
things that he brought up in the

1682
01:52:49,890 --> 01:52:55,090
interview with Tony Benbow and I
think he most probably been 

1683
01:52:56,740 --> 01:53:01,300
interesting as a. 
Writer, and certainly might have

1684
01:53:01,300 --> 01:53:03,940
some view be quite good at 
directing. 

1685
01:53:07,260 --> 01:53:11,380
Okay, but we never know, no, we 
often speculated about. 

1686
01:53:11,780 --> 01:53:15,420
If Sellers had lived, you know, 
another 20 years, yeah, yeah, 

1687
01:53:17,460 --> 01:53:26,060
Sellers was very 
self-destructive, you know, and 

1688
01:53:27,730 --> 01:53:31,930
yeah, that was there was so much
stuff of his lost because he had

1689
01:53:31,930 --> 01:53:35,330
a big bonfire at and then yes, 
that's right, burn things. 

1690
01:53:35,770 --> 01:53:41,370
But yeah, we should. 
We will never. 

1691
01:53:41,370 --> 01:53:44,410
Know but. 
It's been we've been speaking a 

1692
01:53:44,410 --> 01:53:49,290
couple of hours and it's just 
flown by and. 

1693
01:53:49,410 --> 01:53:51,210
Nick, I'd like to. 
Thank you very much. 

1694
01:53:51,690 --> 01:53:53,050
My pleasure. 
My pleasure. 

1695
01:53:53,050 --> 01:53:55,120
Thank you. 
Nice to be. 

1696
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:57,360
Remembered. 
Oh, absolutely. 

1697
01:53:57,440 --> 01:54:00,160
And. 
I would like to get you back in 

1698
01:54:00,160 --> 01:54:02,280
the future, perhaps because 
there's tons of stuff that we've

1699
01:54:02,280 --> 01:54:05,120
not even touched on Hancock. 
We've barely, barely scratched 

1700
01:54:05,120 --> 01:54:08,800
the surface of Hancock and your 
dad's relationship with him. 

1701
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:11,880
Chris, is there anything you 
want to just bring up just 

1702
01:54:11,880 --> 01:54:15,240
before we No, no, it's just what
privileges? 

1703
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:21,880
Been to speak to you and what a 
great opportunity has been to 

1704
01:54:21,880 --> 01:54:25,930
talk about. 
One of the most underrated, but 

1705
01:54:25,930 --> 01:54:30,410
one of the greatest comedians. 
Actors and. 

1706
01:54:30,410 --> 01:54:34,530
Personalities that we've. 
Ever had. 

1707
01:54:34,970 --> 01:54:36,970
Indeed, yeah. 
Yes. 

1708
01:54:38,010 --> 01:54:46,130
Well, yes, he was underrated and
but yes, thank you for that, I 

1709
01:54:46,130 --> 01:54:48,810
always feel like. 
We should finish with a clip of.

1710
01:54:50,250 --> 01:54:53,690
You know Marlena Dietrich at the
very end of Touch of Evil, where

1711
01:54:53,690 --> 01:54:56,370
he says he would he was some 
kind of man. 

1712
01:54:57,010 --> 01:55:00,410
Yes, he certainly was. 
He certainly was. 

1713
01:55:04,050 --> 01:55:05,570
Well, good night. 
I hope you enjoyed it. 

1714
01:55:05,810 --> 01:55:06,090
Bye.