1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,320 There's nothing there but a plate of mincemeat. 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:10,560 Cuba, have you been mincing? The little doggy is very 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,400 particular. He will not touch chunky food. 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,360 But the painting, that was a valuable painting in the 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,680 sausage. I know I removed it. 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:28,920 It's in the ice compartment. You have ruined one of the 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,200 world's. Greatest masterpieces. 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,720 If I may say so, that was not the masterpiece, that was the 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,160 forgery the. Forgery. 10 00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:38,360 The forgery. The forgery. 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,960 Somebody must have substituted the forged painting in the 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,200 Gestapo sausage for the real painting in the Gestapo sausage 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,000 when the sausage was in the cafe. 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,840 Or the Resistance substituted the forged painting for the real 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,800 painting in the Gestapo sausage when they stole the sausage. 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Or you, hair Guba with your well known leaning towards art, have 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,200 substituted the false painting for the real painting and your 18 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,200 dog returns the sausage to your quarters, cleverly mincing the 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,280 sausage to remove all places of my little spastica which I had 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,400 placed on the side of it so that now I will never know whether it 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,480 was the original sausage or just any old sausage. 22 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Hello and welcome to Goon Pod. Although in light of who my 23 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,560 guest is this week, perhaps I should say good morning and 24 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,840 welcome to Goon Pod. Or maybe not. 25 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,240 I must confess, and I confess this freely, it wasn't beaten 26 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,040 out of me Gestapo style. I must confess that I spent a 27 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,800 wretched 15 minutes this afternoon trying to write an 28 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,800 Arthur Bostrom type introduction for comic effect, trying to 29 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,280 workshop something. You know, something like Hello 30 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,160 and welcome to Gun Paid or something like that. 31 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,560 But I wasted far too long trying to think of words which, when 32 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,040 mispronounced, sounded a bit rude. 33 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,240 So thankfully I abandoned that idea. 34 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,920 And I think we can all agree that that was a bullet dodged 35 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:42,480 to. The whole reason I've been 36 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,720 jabbering away like this is because I can barely control my 37 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,960 delight at this week's guest. He is someone I've admired for 38 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,600 40 years now. He's he's British sitcom 39 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,400 royalty, a man known the world over for playing a member of the 40 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,120 German occupying army in wartime France, an officer back from the 41 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,000 Russian front with his own little tank, and a thing for an 42 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,040 overweight, balding cafe owner and his identical twin brother. 43 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,440 You know him as Lieutenant Gruber from Allo Allo. 44 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,080 It's Guy Signer. Hello, Thank you very much for 45 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,960 that kind introduction, and I'm so glad you didn't go on at too 46 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,120 much length about Arthur Bostrom, because he should have 47 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,880 been your guest if you were going to do so. 48 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,200 Yes. Well, yes, yeah, absolutely. 49 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,120 I've, I mentioned him before I mentioned you. 50 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,640 How rude. Absolutely very rude. 51 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,720 So guy, as I say, I I've known you. 52 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,560 I've known of you obviously for since I'm a huge, huge fan of 53 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:46,520 LOLO as a child. And it was only recently that I 54 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,560 was I noticed online that you were promoting the fact that you 55 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,080 and friends, friends and colleagues have a brand new 56 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,600 podcast of your own, which is what is it? 57 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,080 It's it's where you sit around drinking gin and reminisce about 58 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,760 the old days. It's called Listen Very 59 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,560 Carefully and and it's with Richard Gibson and Kim Hartman. 60 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,000 Exactly. The three of us, we're, we're 61 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,600 very close friends and have been well for 40 years now. 62 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,600 We, we, we've got on very well since really since the start of 63 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,280 the show. And we decided only a few weeks 64 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:28,360 ago it might be rather, rather fun to do, to do a podcast about 65 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:37,480 about Ello Ello for fans, people who remember the show and will 66 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,000 remember us. Lucky us if they do. 67 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,720 And each week we we watch together, the three of us 68 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,640 together on episode and then we talk about it, and then we talk 69 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,560 around it. And then we have a little gin, 70 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,480 and then we talk around it some more, and we go off on to 71 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,440 wonderful tangents and talk about quite other things. 72 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,080 I always thought when we would drive up, we'll be driven to the 73 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,520 location and you'd suddenly round a corner and there you'd 74 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:11,080 see the portaloos and the catering truck and that hundreds 75 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,040 of extras and all the crews. The lighting trucks would be 76 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,800 enormous. And the lights were enormous. 77 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,600 Yeah. Also, the equipment is so much 78 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,280 lighter. Your cameras are a tenth of the 79 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:25,200 size of what they were. I mean even the best and most 80 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,200 glamorous Alexa or Harifax or whatever. 81 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,880 Don't say Alexa. Don't say Alexa, they're tiny. 82 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,880 Alexa, they're tiny. Sorry, I don't know that she 83 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,920 doesn't. Alexa, have you ever watched 84 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,560 Aloe Aloe? This might answer your question. 85 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:44,360 Aloe Aloe is a British sitcom television. 86 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,720 Alexa, that's enough. She knows what she knows. 87 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:48,880 Alexa, what's this? She should. 88 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,120 All together, I think it's huge fun. 89 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,720 It's been very well received. People are really enjoying it. 90 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,600 And, and I was very touched with your review, Tyler, which was 91 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,760 which was to say that the only thing you you thought was wrong 92 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:09,080 with it was it was too short. And I told you that, that the 93 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,280 length of the episodes vary. It depends how we feel and what, 94 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,600 you know what, what's in the episode, how much we find there 95 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,440 is to talk about that sort of thing and what's going on in our 96 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,400 lives at the time, you know, at the moment. 97 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,240 And who walks into Kim's kitchen where we do the recording? 98 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,880 Whether it's one of the cats or Kim's husband or the milkman, 99 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,360 you'll never know. Kim, Well, Kim. 100 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,400 As well as being known for playing Helga, she's also 101 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,880 nowadays a a pub quiz question, isn't she? 102 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,360 Which sitcom actress is the aunt of director Christopher Nolan? 103 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,560 Oh yes, I, I suppose so. I hadn't thought of that. 104 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,840 But yes, of course, because her husband, of course is John 105 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:57,960 Nolan, who was in his own right, a wonderful actor and and he is 106 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:04,000 a wonderful actor and who has has appeared in a lot of 107 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,240 Christopher Nolan's movies. And yes, so the the whole family 108 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,760 are are Nolan's and yes, they work together quite a bit. 109 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,720 Yeah, yeah. And it was a revelation for me. 110 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,560 I mean, obviously I knew. I knew when I was, I knew when I 111 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,240 was watching alone when I was a child that the three of you, 112 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,040 Richard, yourself and Kim were not Germans. 113 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,080 But so I didn't expect you, you to have a German accent. 114 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,120 I didn't expect Kim to have a German accent, of course. 115 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,680 But for some reason, I expected Richard Gibson to have a German 116 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,400 accent. I don't know why. 117 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,320 Ridiculous. Yeah. 118 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:51,120 And and also I it's only recently, I think it was 119 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,160 something that you said on the podcast. 120 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,160 I only recently realized that the character of Hair Flick was 121 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,120 meant to be very young in the show. 122 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,240 Is that is that? Is that. 123 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,920 Have I got that right? He was meant to be almost like 124 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,480 sort of straight out of the Hitler Youth. 125 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,760 Is that right? Well, I, I don't know about 126 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,440 that. I mean, Richard looked very 127 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:18,800 young, you know, he was very pretty and, and very blonde and 128 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,400 so on. So I suppose the, the youth 129 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,520 thing kind of works. Worked for David Croft when he 130 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,880 saw him. But yes, I don't know how young 131 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,919 he was supposed to be. He was what he's, he's, he's a 132 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:39,200 few years younger than me, so I suppose he was in his, what, 133 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,200 late 20s when we started the show? 134 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,720 OK. I was in my mid 30s, So yes. 135 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,880 But I think it, I think it helped a lot to take the sort of 136 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,920 curse off the, the fact that he was a member of the Gestapo, 137 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,240 that, that he was young and, and had a sort of vulnerability 138 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,760 despite his, despite his performance, which was anything 139 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,560 but vulnerable. He did have a, a a sort of, as 140 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:17,400 he said himself, you know, at my core, I am in fact a big softie. 141 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,800 He's he wasn't a big softie at all. 142 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,400 But but I, I think it was, as I say, I think it was it was good 143 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,920 that he looked as if he might have had a soft core. 144 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,800 I think it helped yes to take the curse off the character. 145 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,560 Absolutely. We'll, we'll, we'll come on to 146 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,920 talk about in a bit. I just wanted to talk about, 147 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,600 well, actually before we talk about yourself specifically, 148 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,320 obviously this is a show which ostensibly is about the goons 149 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,480 and, and focuses on the goons and their output. 150 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,360 I appreciate that. It's, it's not that, you know, 151 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,520 you said to me earlier the goon show is something that you 152 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,120 distantly remember, but you know, I haven't got you want to 153 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,520 talk about the goons or the goon show. 154 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,960 I got you one because I am a big fan of LOL and I admire your 155 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,040 work. So yeah, that, that, that was 156 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,960 the reason. But let me just ask you just go 157 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,520 through the the form as it were, did you? 158 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,960 Because I know you were born in the United States, weren't you? 159 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,920 I was, I was. But that that doesn't really 160 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,400 have anything to do with the Goon Show because I was educated 161 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,600 in England. I mean, I I came to England when 162 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,960 I was five. OK, Yeah. 163 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,640 So, yeah, in the early 50s. So I certainly heard the Goon 164 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Show and and I was a huge admirer of of all of them. 165 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:50,040 I mean, I think Peter Sellers is, is a real theatrical hero of 166 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:55,320 mine. Spike Milligan, I thought was in 167 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:04,840 every way extraordinary. And I mean, he was unique, like, 168 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,720 like almost like no one else I can think of. 169 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,800 He was unique. He was, I think he was quite 170 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:16,640 mad, but in a wonderful way. And of course, Harry Secombe 171 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,600 was, was, well, you know, that beautiful voice, glorious, 172 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,120 glorious singing voice. And, and, and he was, I don't 173 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,440 know, so straight compared to the other two in a way. 174 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,360 It was just a dynamic which worked beautifully. 175 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,400 It was, it was comic. They were comic geniuses. 176 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,240 And, and it was just, it was so much of his time. 177 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,120 And, and so of course, we all, you know, anyone who was alive 178 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,240 at that time remembers them because they were, you know, 179 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,080 they were, yes, they were everywhere. 180 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,800 But The thing is as well, they were of the time. 181 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,160 But it's amazing. I mean not so much Harry these 182 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,680 days, but it's amazing how much Spike and Peter are still 183 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:10,000 revered to this day in terms of. I think they all, I think they 184 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,000 all are. But yes, certainly Spike and 185 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,920 Peter. I mean, and certainly Peter, you 186 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,880 know, for all his faults as a human being, he was a a 187 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,480 wonderful performer. He he was, he was really so 188 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,640 gifted as a as a comic, as an actor. 189 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:37,400 Indeed, you know, even his his straight acting was was quite 190 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,960 extraordinary it. Was and of course you're 191 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:45,160 obviously you're an actor who can do comedy, but did did you 192 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,200 when you were in your formative years, were you listening to 193 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,920 watching much comedy? Yes, I think, I think I was 194 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,640 always going to be a comic actor. 195 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:00,040 I was turned on to the to the, to the business prep school. 196 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,720 We used to, we used to get film shows from time to time and in 197 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,880 two or three times a term we would, we would, we would have a 198 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:15,200 film. And I saw very soon after it was 199 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,880 released, it must have been Monsieur Hulu's Holiday, the the 200 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:24,640 Jacques Tati film and was absolutely entranced. 201 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,440 I can remember to this day, I mean, I know the film terribly 202 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,240 well. I have, I have it in my library 203 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,520 and I watch it quite a lot. I watch all his films quite 204 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,040 often because I admire him tremendously as both as a 205 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:42,680 director and as a performer. But I remember even to this day, 206 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,440 how it made me feel at the time seeing that film and how, how 207 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:55,000 closely I connected with it. And I don't think I, I, I think 208 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,240 I must have made the decision there and then. 209 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,600 Although family history relates that I was age 11 when I 210 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:07,200 announced to my to my family that this was what I was going 211 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,200 to do with my life. And I've never never varied 212 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,240 since then. I never went through the stage 213 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,920 of wanting to be anything else. I was always going to be an 214 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,480 actor and I think I was always going to be a comic actor. 215 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:26,040 But but of course, in a, in a very long career, depressingly 216 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,680 long really in terms of how old I am. 217 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:36,760 I've done every kind of drama and, and everything from comedy 218 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,920 to horror to straight drama to Shakespeare to everything you 219 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,960 can think of. And and so I've I've done a bit 220 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,200 of everything, but but I suppose comedy is where I am most at 221 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,760 home. Am I right in saying your cousin 222 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,320 or cousins Simon and Selena Cadel? 223 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:54,680 Yes. Cadel. 224 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,320 Yeah, Cadel, sorry. Don't apologise. 225 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,480 Everyone calls. Everyone in England calls them 226 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,680 Cadel. They are Scottish. 227 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,280 Of course, the, the, the name is Scottish and it's cattle. 228 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,560 Yes, they are cousins, but only by marriage. 229 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,560 It's not, it wasn't a it was only a connection. 230 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:17,480 My, my grandmother's second husband was Simon's grandfather. 231 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:23,320 So, you know, our grandparents were married to each other. 232 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,360 They are not blood relations. But Speaking of which, his his 233 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:37,360 grandmother, my grandmother's second husband's sister was Jean 234 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,840 Jean Caddle, who was a very, very famous English character 235 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,480 actress. She played one of the leads in 236 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:49,960 Whiskey Galore and she played the sort of the, the, the very 237 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:58,520 strict mother of, of the young hero, very straight, very, yeah, 238 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,560 Scottish. And anyway, Long story short, 239 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:09,240 she, she read poetry with me as a child and, and I visited her, 240 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,280 I can't remember why. I was sort of, I don't know, 241 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,840 somehow palmed off on her in her flat in London. 242 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,640 And I remember walking in through the front door and 243 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:22,200 tripping over a pile of scripts because she was much in demand. 244 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,680 But she never, ever read scripts and refused to work at the in 245 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,520 her later years. And she was a bit dotty and had 246 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,280 a lot of cats. And she, she read poetry with 247 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,280 me. And I think she knew very well 248 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,840 then that I was going to be an actor. 249 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,560 I'm talking, I don't know what, how eight or nine or something. 250 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,080 And I think she had decided immediately that this was what I 251 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,880 was going to do, that I was going to be, be, be an actor. 252 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,960 And, and yes, I, as I say, it was quite soon after that that I 253 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,040 made the decision myself. See, the only reason I mentioned 254 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,920 Simon is specific is because I could see when he played Doctor 255 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,599 Geoffrey Fairbrother and Heidi hi, yes, very, very few people 256 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,000 could have played that part. But I I could imagine you 257 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:12,720 possibly could have played that part. 258 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,920 Yes, it's funny. I mean, there are people who who 259 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,599 say, oh, there's a family resemblance. 260 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,800 Well, of course there isn't. No, because we were only related 261 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,200 by marriage. But but yes, there was a, a, a 262 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,080 sort of likeness. I, you know, I suppose we, we're 263 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,480 the same sort in terms of, of our looks and so on and, and, 264 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:40,640 and indeed our background. And so, yes, perhaps we, we were 265 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,720 sort of interchangeable. I suppose he could have played 266 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Gruber and I could have played Jeffrey Fairbrother. 267 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,760 Absolutely. And and of course, he was a Nazi 268 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,920 in Enemy at the Door. Yes, he was. 269 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,600 He was and and you were in. You were in a secret an episode 270 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,040 of Secret Army. An episode of, say, a tiny, tiny 271 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,840 part. I only got that role because I 272 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,960 could speak German. And yes, I I was very quickly 273 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,520 killed. And a very good thing too, 274 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:15,680 probably. Come on, which one of you? 275 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,040 Two speaks English or do both of you? 276 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,200 No. No, no, no, said that for a long 277 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,200 you eavesdro. Mcconus and you don't speak the 278 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,120 lingo. Come on. 279 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,840 But yes, it, it, it, it had nothing to do with anything. 280 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:33,480 It's just it happened that I was in secret Army and Ello Ello was 281 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,480 kind of a take off of Secret army. 282 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,520 So because one of the guests we want to have on the podcast very 283 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,840 badly is Chan Jan Francis, who played the lead in in Secret 284 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,720 Army. You know, she was the sort of 285 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,600 the resistance girl who was, she was always, you know, in the 286 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,800 little Berry and the yes and, and the White Sox on the 287 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,240 Macintosh. And she said at the time, she 288 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,160 said, I was always saying, listen very carefully. 289 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,640 I shall say this only once. It could be me. 290 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,320 It could be me. So we so want to have her in, 291 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,680 in, in the podcast because I think she would, she would bring 292 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,880 a lot to it. And she's a dear friend of, of, 293 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,480 of all of us. So. 294 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,440 She would have been doing just good friends at the same time I 295 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,000 guess as. Yeah. 296 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,560 Did they overlap? Yes, I suppose they did, yes. 297 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,240 They did. Yes, I suppose so. 298 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,520 My first memory of seeing LOLO that would have because it began 299 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,040 and the the pilot was 82. Yes, 82 to 92 was the was the 300 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,920 that's right and of of the original show, yes. 301 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,520 Yes, and I would have seen it. I I grew up in New Zealand and 302 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,120 we got oh, did you? It was absolutely massive, yes. 303 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,720 It was, it was the stage show toured New Zealand, Yes, I 304 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,480 didn't go with it, but it it did. 305 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,200 Yeah. I went all around Australia 306 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:04,440 twice but when the tour to New Zealand came along I I'm so very 307 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,600 sorry because I know what a beautiful country it is and I so 308 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,280 wanted to see it, but I was in a play in the West End and I 309 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,880 couldn't go. Yes well my my first memory of 310 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,640 seeing a level low was walking into the room and the TV was on 311 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,760 and the sound was off. It was mute, the TV was muted 312 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,080 and it looked just like a typical BBC drama because I 313 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,320 couldn't hear anything. It wasn't on Vt, it was location 314 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,560 filming right? So it looked to me like it was 315 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,960 just a wart. ABBC wartime drama. 316 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,680 A movie, right? It was shot on 16 mil, yeah. 317 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,960 Yeah, and and then I can't remember exactly which which 318 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,360 episode it was, but something silly happened which made me 319 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,880 think any. Is this any episode? 320 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,520 Pick an episode. So I turned, I turned the sound 321 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,840 up and then I would just, I was just hooked. 322 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:04,440 And absolutely, I mean, particularly the 1st, the first 323 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:10,760 dozen series I, I recorded them and watched them over and over 324 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,320 and over again, right. So, so I would say probably the 325 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,480 first five series. I I still probably know word 326 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,240 perfect. Oh, that's, that's lovely. 327 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,760 Yeah, there, there are an awful lot of people like you as well. 328 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:30,080 I mean, we, we get fan mail all the time still and, and some 329 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,040 from people like you who remember it, you know, at the 330 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:39,560 time, and some from small children who have been, you 331 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,600 know, who have learned to love it through their parents or 332 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,800 their grandparents. It's extraordinary. 333 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,520 You know, we have, we have even small children now who, who are 334 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,160 hooked. It's, it's wonderful, but it's, 335 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,360 it keeps, it's the gift that keeps on giving. 336 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,200 You know, it, it, it, as my mother said at the time, she 337 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,760 said everybody from the Duchess to the gardener's daughter loves 338 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,360 this show. I I don't know if everyone's 339 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,040 like this, but with comedies, with sitcoms, with the goons, 340 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,560 even I have a particular, there's always one particular 341 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,800 line that I will always instantly think of if someone 342 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,720 mentions the show, whatever it may be. 343 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,960 Yes, with a lower low, it's more of it's more of a scene that I 344 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,040 remember and it's and you've you've actually mentioned it 345 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:34,240 recently on your podcast and it's just the delivery is just 346 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:37,720 it's. Which scene? 347 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,520 It's OK. It's the scene where you meet 348 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,040 Renee, or at least Renee's twin brother. 349 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,720 Renee's been shot, supposedly, and his twin, his twin, his twin 350 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,880 brother has come to the cafe. Allow me to introduce myself. 351 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,040 I am Lieutenant Gruber. I was a very close friend of 352 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,840 your brother. My twin brother, Renee, Yes, 353 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,840 yes, it was very sad. Unfortunately, I was in charge 354 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,680 of the firing party. Yes, I know. 355 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,640 You understand. I hope you will not hold it 356 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,600 against me. I will try not to your usual, 357 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,480 whatever that may be. That is my usual How 358 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,600 extraordinary. You bear a most remarkably close 359 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,960 resemblance to Renee. I know. 360 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,640 You even have the same pretty rings. 361 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,880 Yes, yes, he left them to me now. 362 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,520 I come to look. Your eyelashes are a little 363 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,680 longer and your hands are more artistic. 364 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,200 Somebody told me you arrived from Nancy's this morning. 365 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,920 Yes, he's quite right. Is that where you and Renee 366 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,560 Babong? Yes, we were both Nancy boys. 367 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,240 And it's the way Kay Gordon Kay's voice falters halfway 368 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,800 through that sentence. Yes, yes. 369 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,480 As he realizes. What he's saying through the 370 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,560 sentence, he realizes what he's about to say. 371 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,640 It's amazing. And then and then it has to 372 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:17,800 finish the sentence. Yes, it those the set pieces at 373 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,480 the bar the the the misunderstandings between 374 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,480 between Lieutenant Gruber and and and Rene were were an 375 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:33,160 absolute joy to play. And and the writers obviously 376 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,360 after the pilot, the very famous matches seen with with the 377 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,960 misunderstanding about the you know, are you one of them? 378 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,760 And, and it became, they immediately saw that they struck 379 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,920 gold. And so, you know, there were 380 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,520 wonderful scenes with with, with, with the two of us at the 381 00:24:52,520 --> 00:25:02,520 bar where where you know, like the radio under the counter, 382 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,360 which which wouldn't stop talking, giving code messages, 383 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,760 all of which I misunderstood completely. 384 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,320 And, you know, appeared to suggest and and and I thought 385 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,240 Rene was talking and they appeared to suggest that he was 386 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,920 giving me the come on. You know, it was, it was so 387 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:24,360 beautifully written and and a joy to play, as I say. 388 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Was there any, did you get any criticism from any quarters 389 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:32,520 about well for how you portrayed Gruber's sexuality? 390 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:40,360 Right, the reverse. I got an awful lot of male from 391 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:49,320 from gay men and not what I expected to talk, but people who 392 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:59,640 would thank me, sometimes really quite emotionally brokenly as it 393 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,240 were. Or. 394 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:09,160 Or portraying a gay character as a real man rather than being 395 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,960 limp wristed and carrying. I mean, I know I was very often 396 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,320 disguised as a woman of the opposite sex and indeed enjoyed 397 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,720 it very much. But he wasn't, he was a tank 398 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,600 officer. He was a soldier. 399 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:28,720 If he'd had a a sort of a lift and, and, and, and a limp wrist, 400 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:31,960 his men would have probably killed him. 401 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:39,360 You know, he was a tank officer. He was, he was, he was, yes. 402 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,280 You have to bear in mind the period. 403 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,640 But at the same time, I remember of saying to David very early on 404 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,240 in rehearsals for the pilot, I said, you know, if this is to 405 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,880 be, if this is to be John Inman, you need to get someone else 406 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,920 because that's not, you know, that's not what I intend to do 407 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,240 with this at all. And he said absolutely not. 408 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,120 That's why I hired you. I want you to be, I want you to 409 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:07,520 be as real as possible, because that's where the comedy lies. 410 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,840 And and it's it's important this. 411 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,520 I'm quite glad you asked it because it it it was a 412 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,880 departure. You know, it was, it was not 413 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,960 only acceptable, but it was, it was considered the dumb thing 414 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,640 for gay characters to be screaming Queens. 415 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:32,320 If you like, you know, Liberace, John Inman of fond memory, bless 416 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,320 him, wonderful actor, but you know that that sort of. 417 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,480 Julian and Sandy from Round the Horn. 418 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,560 Yes, yes, Julian and Sandy from from Round the Horn, that sort 419 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,160 of, you know, shut that door. You know, it was it. 420 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,880 That was what people found amusing. 421 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,280 And by the early 80s that was very passe. 422 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:03,320 You know, we were not that far from at the time when, you know, 423 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,920 homosexuality became first of all legal and then acceptable. 424 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,240 And then, you know, men began to marry each other, you know, and, 425 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,840 and, and today it's a completely different world. 426 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,840 Well, I was sort of on the cusp of that world. 427 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,760 And as I say, a lot of gay people found it very refreshing 428 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,200 that they were not being ridiculed for once. 429 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,440 Well, that's it, that's it. There was you and then after you 430 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,600 in sickness and health. Do you remember that? 431 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,520 The elf Garnet. Space. 432 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,920 That started in 85 and very quickly it introduced a gay 433 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,240 character called, a black gay character called Winston, don't 434 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,160 know if you remember. And he, he was very sympathetic. 435 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,640 He was very, he played it straight, almost. 436 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,080 He he would put it on sometimes just to wind up elf. 437 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,880 Exactly. Well, you know, the same thing 438 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,120 with with Gruber. You know, he, he, he, he was 439 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,520 perfectly happy when asked to disguise himself as a woman of 440 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,840 the opposite sex and, and to actually swing a handbag. 441 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,760 But at the same time, he was, he was, you know, to all intents 442 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:23,720 and purposes, a straight man. And, and it, it, it was, it was 443 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:31,040 fun to play almost for that reason that, that, that it 444 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,760 wasn't making fun of anyone. You know, the whole show was 445 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,040 making fun of everybody. But I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't 446 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,280 sending up gayness. It wasn't making homosexuality 447 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,800 appear ridiculous. No, absolutely. 448 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:55,800 This is going to sound childish, OK, as a teenage boy, which I 449 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:02,800 was by by the time that this happened, I was devastated when, 450 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,840 and this is no inference on on Sue Hodge whatsoever, but I was 451 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,080 devastated when Maria departed the show. 452 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,480 Well, between you and me, so was I. 453 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,160 Yes, yes. She was very beautiful. 454 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,920 Yes. We still occasionally do have 455 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,800 reunions where, you know, we, we, we do charity events, that 456 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,200 kind of thing. And Fran is, is very often with 457 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,200 us. She is a wonderful artist, 458 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:43,080 painter and she spends much of her time in Spain because of the 459 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,920 light. And then also there are family 460 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,800 collections, but because of the light mainly. 461 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,560 And she paints beautifully. But yeah, Fran, is, is is kind 462 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,560 of one of us, if you like. But, you know, listen, it's like 463 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,520 any job, you know, out of the, I don't know, a dozen of us that 464 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,360 the sort of the main characters, you know, three or four became 465 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:14,240 firm friends for life. And well, as I say, that's like 466 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,240 any job, isn't it? You, You, you, you. 467 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,880 Everybody's a colleague, but but a few people become wonderful 468 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:27,000 friends and and if you're lucky, life lifelong friends, which Kim 469 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,280 and Richard are. And then of course you had, you 470 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,240 have the in the show, you had some stand out vintage, what I 471 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,800 would call vintage performers. So I'm thinking specifically 472 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,240 Jack Hague, Rose Hill, and and of course, Kenneth Connor. 473 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:46,200 Of course. And just to slightly drag it 474 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,760 back to the goons momentarily, do you know that there's a big 475 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,200 connection between Kenneth Connor and the goons? 476 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,240 I I didn't watch it, what is it? He appeared in two episodes of 477 00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,880 The Goon Show. Did he? 478 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,520 I didn't know that. Yes, he was good friends with 479 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,560 Sellers. I wish I'd known that I would 480 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,400 have talked to him about it. He's. 481 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,840 A lovely man and I was very fond of him. 482 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,160 Oh, just the the I think his introductory episode of a lower 483 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,000 low is the the the timing was. Impeccable, impeccable. 484 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:26,960 He's a consummate actor really. And, and we had that wonderful, 485 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:32,840 wonderful scene together, of course, where I, I was forced to 486 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:39,360 interrogate him. And, you know, the, the general 487 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,480 said to the Colonel, you know, you go on, you interrogate him. 488 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,160 And the Colonel of course said to me immediately, you do it. 489 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,560 I had no idea. And I had to, the general then 490 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,240 said, well, use the manual, you know, do it properly. 491 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,840 And so I had to interrogate him from the manual of 492 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:03,120 interrogation. Yes, right now listen to me 493 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,240 carefully and understand this. We know everything. 494 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:14,480 In that case, can I go? Ask him about the mounds of 495 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,080 earth. Of course, what about the mounds 496 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,000 of earth? What mounds of earth? 497 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:32,310 We ask the questions, where exactly did you see them, 498 00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:34,870 General? It's the graveyard. 499 00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:38,910 It's the graveyard. Five are little mounds of earth 500 00:33:38,910 --> 00:33:43,440 appearing in the graveyard. Could it perhaps be the moles? 501 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,000 That seems perfectly logical. Excellent not. 502 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,920 To me, you are up to something. Six of your grave. 503 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,000 Diggers have been at work night and day, but no one is getting 504 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,080 buried. How do you account for this? 505 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,160 Well, you see, general in the summertime when business is 506 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:11,159 slack, we try to stock up for the winter time when they pop 507 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:14,560 off. Are you satisfied with this 508 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,280 explanation, Carne? Definitely not general. 509 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,199 But I am and. Be more careful in future. 510 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:29,960 Yes General, my card 24 hour service. 511 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,360 I will bury you swiftly and with style. 512 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,120 It was a joy. And I remember the the, the part 513 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,400 of me, the part of of any actor which which stands apart when 514 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,760 you're playing a scene, you know, there's a little part of 515 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,520 you that's, you know, watching in the cameras and watching your 516 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,199 Marks and making sure you, you know, listening to the audience 517 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:54,760 and all that timing, the jokes and stuff. 518 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,040 And that part of me was thinking, you know, Jesus, here 519 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:07,560 I am, Studio One, BBC Television Centre, and I'm playing a scene 520 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,360 with one of the greatest comics of the generation, who I've been 521 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,440 watching since I was a little boy in the Carry On films. 522 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,280 And, and here we are together, the two of us. 523 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,480 And I had and it's something no one can ever take away from me. 524 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,400 Yeah, one of the reasons our lower low is still fresh is that 525 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,480 in a way it's a period piece, like a bit like Dad's Army and a 526 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,800 bit like Blackadder, because it was it was dated when it 527 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,160 originally went out, if you know what I mean. 528 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,560 It was set in the past, so the dialogue is anachronistic often 529 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,240 and the but but the fashions and the settings are very familiar 530 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,600 to audiences of all generations. Unlike when you see repeats of 531 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,720 80s sitcoms like, I don't know, Butterflies or No Place like 532 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:57,040 Home or Rude Health, where the, where the eye in the air is 533 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,640 distracted by the fashions and the just the, the hairstyles and 534 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,120 everything like that. A lower load, like Dad's Army, 535 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,320 like Black Hatter, it will always be timeless. 536 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,160 Yes, I, I, I think you're right. And it's, it's interesting that 537 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:19,240 we, we, we often ask ourselves why it, it, the popularity is, 538 00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:23,240 is, is such as it still is after all these years. 539 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:28,160 And I mean, goodness, you know, it is more than 40 years and, 540 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,600 and I think it is, it is, it is mainly that it is mainly that it 541 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,920 was that it, that it is had a historical setting. 542 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,720 And so it was always, it was a period piece and therefore it 543 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,640 never, it never gets dated. Because it was. 544 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,880 Automatically dated by definition, but I think it is a 545 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,640 bit more than that. And we talked about this a lot 546 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,880 because when we started the podcast, you know, the first 547 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,520 thing we said to each other was, you know, is anybody going to be 548 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,840 interested? And then, but then, you know, 549 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,040 the, the popularity is, is so great still all around the 550 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,120 world. I mean, you know, it sells to 551 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,520 nearly 100 countries. How many countries are there in 552 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,320 the world, 300 or something? It sells to a third of them. 553 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,360 And you know, in some countries like Spain, for instance, it 554 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,960 plays in three different languages. 555 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,000 It's that really, yes, it plays in, in Spanish, in Catalan and 556 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,480 in Basque. And it's that popular that it, 557 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,960 it, it, it plays all over the world. 558 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,240 And you know, I've been stopped in the streets in New York 559 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:39,960 wearing a suit and sunglasses by a fan, you know, and, and, and 560 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,960 the same thing in Melbourne. It, it's quite extraordinary 561 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,400 how, how popular it's been all over the world. 562 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,760 And I think it's, it's more than it just being historic, you 563 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,960 know, set in, in, in, in period. I think it's, I also think it 564 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:05,040 the, the two writers absolutely hit, hit the mark in a way they 565 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:11,600 did never did before or since. It just, it just, you know, I 566 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,160 think it's, it, it, it's no accident that it's basically, 567 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,920 it's the most popular series the BBC have ever made, you know, by 568 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,880 the, the, the numbers, by the sales, foreign sales and so on. 569 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,920 It, it just hit the mark. And so many people of all ages 570 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,040 and all this, my, my mother said all classes. 571 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,520 It just worked for, for everybody. 572 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:46,280 And you know, there was a time when the BB, the ratings used to 573 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,920 come out in the stage every week. 574 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:53,120 And there was a time when the ratings are always, were always 575 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:58,160 the same because the two major soaps at the time, which were 576 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:05,600 Neighbours and EastEnders, I believe, and they were the two 577 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,640 of them were counted twice because of the Sunday special. 578 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,880 They had a Sunday omnibus. And so the ratings are always 579 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,480 unfair. It was always, you know, 580 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:19,720 Neighbours, EastEnders, EastEnders Neighbours or 581 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,400 EastEnders Neighbours, Neighbours, whatever. 582 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,600 But because they were counted twice so they always were top of 583 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,720 the ratings. And there was one magnificent 584 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,520 week where it went EastEnders, neighbours, a low, a low, 585 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,160 Neighbours, EastEnders, something like that. 586 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,520 We came third of the ratings and and beat two of them. 587 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,560 They were counted twice and we were selling for 20. 588 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,680 We were sorry, playing to 25,000,000. 589 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:51,920 Now that was That means half the television sets in the country 590 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,160 were tuned to Allo Allo half. Think about it. 591 00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:58,680 You wouldn't get that these days. 592 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,120 No. Well, it's of course then there 593 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,960 were four channels and it's a different world now, of course, 594 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,480 But even then that was absolutely exceptional. 595 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,760 I mean something like. And faulty towers, for instance, 596 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,360 would play to what, 4 million? Maybe five? 597 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,160 Hello, hello played to 25. Up yours faulty towers. 598 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,920 Now I I yield to no man in my admiration for 40 towers. 599 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,720 Trust me, I think it was absolutely wonderful. 600 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,040 Yeah, it was a it was a huge, huge crowd pleaser and and 601 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,520 generational kids from kids to grandparents, they would enjoy 602 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:41,200 it. Yeah. 603 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:42,960 Absolutely. The Queen Mother used to have 604 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,800 the television set wheeled into dinner and she wouldn't miss it. 605 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,840 OK, who who, who was the most challenged? 606 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,160 I don't mean necessarily, I don't mean who didn't you like 607 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,240 working with, but who was the most challenging to work with in 608 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:59,840 terms of maybe making you corpse or or whatever. 609 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:08,880 Was there anybody? The worst corps was was 610 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:18,240 unquestionably Miss Hartman, and still is, and and the worst 611 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,160 person for making people corpse was Richard Gibson, and still 612 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,560 is. They don't, they never change. 613 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,120 But difficult, difficult to work with. 614 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,920 Nobody really. I mean, everybody had different 615 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:44,360 strengths. You know, some people were just 616 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,760 a joy. And Ken, Ken Connor was was the 617 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,160 perfect example. Sam Kelly, who played Hans 618 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:57,080 Kilian, again, a consummate actor, just beautiful actor and 619 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,040 wonderful to play a scene with Gordon, wonderful to play a 620 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,680 scene with a difficult man, but but wonderful actor and, and, 621 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,120 and he was so perfect in that part. 622 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,800 And, and yes, together, we, we, we, we did make some, some good, 623 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,560 some good television, I think. I was, I guess he was more 624 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,560 difficult after the accident, was he? 625 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,920 Yes, that's, that's certainly true. 626 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:34,120 I mean, he and, and, and bless him, he had, you know, life was 627 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:40,440 more difficult for him. He had the occasional epileptic 628 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:47,880 fit, which the brain injury caused and you know, and he 629 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,200 wasn't allowed to drive and he found that very frustrating. 630 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,760 And you know that it can't have been easy for him. 631 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,640 Sure, Absolutely. Absolutely. 632 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,160 I don't know how you feel about this. 633 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,800 I was a bit surprised by the whole storyline right at the end 634 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,000 of the series where Richard Gibson, I guess he was maybe a 635 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,880 prior commitment, but he couldn't make the last series. 636 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:11,640 Is that right? So. 637 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,200 Yes, they. They brought in David Jansen and 638 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,840 and the idea was that he was hair flicked with plastic 639 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,840 surgery. Yes, yes. 640 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:28,440 And, and I, I haven't got a lot to say about that other than 641 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,200 you, you know, terribly difficult for David to take over 642 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,400 from, from Richard Gibson. It it difficult for anybody to 643 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,680 take over from a character who'd been so well established, for 644 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,120 goodness sake, for 8-9 series, you know, bad enough after a 645 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,000 couple of series, but after nine years, you know, impossible. 646 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:58,240 The talk about being on a losing wicket, you know, hadn't a hope. 647 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:04,000 But I think I think the writers made a mistake. 648 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,640 I wouldn't have I wouldn't have have done done things that way. 649 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,680 I would have promoted from small house and perhaps or something, 650 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,840 you know, I or brought in a new character. 651 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,240 I wouldn't have done the the yeah business of of plastic 652 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:21,840 surgery. I think it was a mistake. 653 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,280 Now it very rarely works when you try and maintain the 654 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:30,960 character without you actor. The 11 other thing that I 655 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,120 thought was I thought was maybe a misstep. 656 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,400 You might think otherwise. The the IT was an interesting 657 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,760 experiment. The 26 episode series 6 that was 658 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,360 short episodes designed to sell to the US. 659 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:51,280 Yes, it just seemed I mean they were funny, but it just seemed 660 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,040 too much. I felt. 661 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,960 I don't know. How do you how did you feel 662 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,560 about that series? Well, that was a commercial 663 00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,920 decision because the Americans were paying for it. 664 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,920 Right. You know, that was, that was 665 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:10,880 because, yeah, the Americans came over and bought it 666 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,240 basically and said, all right, you know, we need you to make 26 667 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,240 because that's how we do things in the States. 668 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:22,000 We don't 7 episodes a year and no use to us at all. 669 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:31,320 We need 26 a year. And because you know that that's 670 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:37,320 a season in the States and that's how comedy series are 671 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,120 made. You know, I, I was in Seinfeld 672 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,160 and that's how we did Seinfeld. You know, we did 26 a year and 673 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,520 then we were on holiday and then we did 26 more. 674 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,640 That's the way it's done. So yeah, the Americans paid for 675 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,000 it. And so immediately the BBC 676 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,760 couldn't, couldn't, they didn't have the studio time. 677 00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:03,400 So we were farmed out to, to a studio in Elstree, actually the 678 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:10,280 old puppet studio, and we shot it there and we had a, we didn't 679 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,360 have time to go away filming because of the, the schedule was 680 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,160 so tight. So we had, they built a, they 681 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:25,040 built a film lot at Elstree next to the EastEnders external set, 682 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:31,640 the the Albert Square set. And we shot all the exterior 683 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,880 stuff there at Elstree. And then we shot the studio 684 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,280 stuff in the Muppet studio. Yeah, in, in, in Elstree and, 685 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,480 and, and we made, yeah, we made 26 on the trot because it was 686 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,000 for the American market. So. 687 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,080 Must have been a strain for you, that for all of you. 688 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,760 Having done that, oh God, it was especially as at one point we 689 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,120 were, we were doing the stage show at the same time. 690 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,040 Oh. God. 691 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,120 So we, it was a, it was a nightmare actually. 692 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,080 And for the writers, you know, the David and Jeremy wrote all 693 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:08,840 26, just the two of them. And again in America, of course, 694 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,520 you know, they have teams of writers. 695 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,520 They have. A. 696 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,280 Dozen writers at least, all of whom have have assistants, you 697 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,000 know, which is how they can do 26 a year. 698 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,240 But David and Jeremy tried to do 26 all on their own. 699 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:27,800 And they were, they would, you know, leave the set in the 700 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,480 evening and fall asleep in their cars. 701 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,960 And you know, it was awful, but but oh, it was magical time. 702 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:44,360 Magical time. Oh my God, I have missed him and 703 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,800 shot the women of the streets. That was my gun. 704 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,800 That was my gun. She shot them with my gun. 705 00:47:54,760 --> 00:48:04,320 I was pissing by the door. I heard two shots. 706 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,640 You are holding in your hand a smoking goon. 707 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,840 You are clearly the guilty potty. 708 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,520 I did not do it. Tell him I did not do it. 709 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,960 I was not looking. Officer, you have no authority 710 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,240 over the glorious German army. This was just an ordinary crime 711 00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:31,160 of passion that happens in France on any Saturday night. 712 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:39,040 But if it should come to the ears of General von Klinkoff, if 713 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:43,000 it should come to the ears of General that that that that an 714 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,520 officer allowed his gun to be taken from him, then both he and 715 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,880 his superior would be in very hot water. 716 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,520 You see, you are in it too. For the usual bribe of 50,000 717 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,040 francs, I trust you will overlook this incident. 718 00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,400 Did I make those shut? Up the pilot of a Lolo, I 719 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:09,840 believe prompted a a a flurry of letters from desiccated old 720 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,200 kernels on the light writing into the BBC complaining about a 721 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,640 lower load. Basically is that is that 722 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,680 correct? Yeah, we had a few, a few people 723 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,720 who, who, yes, but, you know, disgusted from Tunbridge Wells. 724 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,720 You didn't understand the concept, which was, you know, 725 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,280 oh, how dare you make fun of the war. 726 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:30,880 We weren't making fun of the war. 727 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,120 We were making fun of programs about the war being a film, war 728 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,560 films, the sort of stiff up, stiff up a lip series and, and, 729 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:44,120 and movies that that, you know, saw the war only from one side 730 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,480 and so on. And everybody was, was made fun 731 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,240 of. You know, the Germans, the 732 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:50,440 English were made fun of. The Germans were made fun of. 733 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:56,360 The French were made fun of. Nobody escaped David and 734 00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:03,080 Jeremy's eye for parody and and it was all done with tremendous 735 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:06,800 fondness and tremendous good humour. 736 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,880 And, and there were there were other people. 737 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,000 I mean, you know, there was a letter of the times from the 738 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,760 widow of the White Rabbit, the. Oh yeah. 739 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:22,480 Famous, famous, a member of the of, of the well, a British 740 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,840 leader of the French Resistance who was murdered by the Gestapo. 741 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,440 And, and, and she said he, that's how we got through it. 742 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,080 He would have loved it. He would have loved it. 743 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,440 We got through the war laughing at it, at ourselves, at the 744 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,880 Germans, at, you know. Well, that that's the thing and 745 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,520 the reason I mentioned that is because there's the IT was just 746 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,760 following in in what I would call the the great tradition of 747 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,640 World War 2 parodies and comic satire as it stretched right 748 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,840 back to the goons because they were regularly sending up the 749 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,960 war, yes, and and that's because they've been through it, of 750 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:03,760 course. So they had a. 751 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,200 Certain amount of life Milligan wrote about it didn't he wrote 752 00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:07,920 a. Yeah, biography about it. 753 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,520 You. Know, but but, but but the point 754 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,880 is, and then of course you've got films like The Producers, 755 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,360 which came later. And but there seem, there seems 756 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,360 there seems to be a tendency towards, I don't know, hand 757 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,640 wringing over any sort of making what people see as making light 758 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,880 of World War Two, sort of a sensitivity sensitivity. 759 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,960 Well, make light of anything, you know, I'm a great believer. 760 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,400 You know, there there isn't there's nothing you can you can 761 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:42,120 not make fun of and and laugh about nothing it it's just a 762 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,600 question of how you do it. And there are always going to be 763 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:53,680 people who object and you know, people who I don't know, don't 764 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,280 have a life or seem to think they, you know, should be in a 765 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,520 position to tell everyone else how to live theirs. 766 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,560 And I have no time for that. You know, I don't the thing, the 767 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,800 thing either stands or it doesn't on it's own merits as 768 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,120 far as I'm concerned. And if it works, it works. 769 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,680 If it doesn't, it doesn't. And I don't have any time for 770 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,080 disgusted from Tunbridge Wells, whatever he thinks. 771 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,200 Yeah, before we wrap up, if we've got the time, I just want 772 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,960 to quickly touch on some other aspects of your career, guy. 773 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,080 My friend Chris messaged me said you're one of those great actors 774 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,720 who turns up in the most bizarre places and makes you smile, like 775 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,600 turning up in Babylon 5 and Leprechaun 4. 776 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,880 Yes, well, both of those interesting. 777 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,640 I mean Babylon five, it was just another job and and that was 778 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,520 wonderful because I got to work with Mira Folland, who who was a 779 00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:00,280 truly great actress. She was a sort of the Meryl 780 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:07,400 Streep of, of, of Yugoslavia, then Yugoslavia who fled the war 781 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:12,280 and and then became a sort of mini star in in Los Angeles. 782 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:17,040 And we had a, we had a rather sort of a love in when we met 783 00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,240 because she was a huge fan of a Lolo. 784 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,360 All right. A huge fan of hers. 785 00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:28,640 So we became great friends. But the Leprechaun was was 786 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,040 actually written for me when Brian Trenchard Smith, the 787 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,560 wonderful director, conceived it and the writer was writing it, 788 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,240 They came up, came up with this character and Brian immediately 789 00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:44,440 thought of me and called me and said you want to come and the 790 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,520 writer. And so yes, it was. 791 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,520 It was actually written for me, which was lovely. 792 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:55,000 For years I have dreamt of the opportunity to rejoin the human 793 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,840 race. Did you know that I was once 794 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,960 considered quite dashing? Really. 795 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:08,880 Of course, of course. And then the experiment. 796 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,280 The experiment, yes. I would have been the first 797 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,520 computer is an organic structure. 798 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,760 Something went wrong. No, Herald, it all went 799 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,200 according to plan. Moron. 800 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,640 Look at me. There's one of those lovely 801 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,000 things when, when the when the show came out on the breakdown 802 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:39,680 that Warwick and I were both cast and, and that's a lovely 803 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,120 feeling, you know, because when it comes out on the breakdown 804 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,040 for all the agents, you see, your name is already cast before 805 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,280 the breakdowns go out. It's, it's, it's a great 806 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,120 accolade. And and once and you want to 807 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,480 only 10 actors to have been in both Doctor Who and Star Trek? 808 00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,520 Yes. Can you name the other nine? 809 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:05,080 Well, I no, I can't, but I can tell you, I think I am the only 810 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:10,280 actor people say online. I read somewhere years ago that 811 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:16,360 I am the only actor to have been in all the four great sci-fi 812 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:23,560 franchises have been involved in Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5 813 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,800 and Doctor Who. We didn't know about Star Wars. 814 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,760 Yeah, I, I did. I did six of the Star Wars 815 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,720 games. I played the lead in one of 816 00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:33,880 them. The CB rocks. 817 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,840 I played the lead in TIE Fighter, which is. 818 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:41,200 I played the main character in TIE Fighter, which is again, I 819 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,400 still get fan mail for that. OK. 820 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:53,000 Yes, that was, that was 10 days in a voice studio, just me and 821 00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,440 the director and the, and the engineer in a voice studio in in 822 00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,800 North Hollywood, 7 1/2 thousand lines. 823 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:07,320 I had to do is one of those things where, you know, you come 824 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:11,360 to 2 doors and you have to decide which door the, the game, 825 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,280 the player has to decide which, which door they go through. 826 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,600 And of course the story varies according to which door you 827 00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,800 open. And so I had to record two 828 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:21,320 different completely different stories. 829 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,440 And it was like a like a spider's web because, you know, 830 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,040 they keep coming to different doors. 831 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,800 So yeah, that was that was a hell of a job. 832 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,840 And then, of course, because I did that, George Lucas became a 833 00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,720 bit of a fan and kept hiring me again to do. 834 00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:42,520 And then then they realized that I could do voices. 835 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,240 And so they they would hire me to do a small part in something 836 00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:48,120 and then they'd wallet and they'd say, while you're in the 837 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,080 studio, would you, you know, can you just do this other character 838 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,360 and maybe make him, I don't know, Irish or, you know, and 839 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,800 then, oh, can you do a third character and make him, you 840 00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,680 know, French? And I'd do that. 841 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,240 And then they'd, and then they'd say a fourth character. 842 00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:04,520 And of course, once, once you've done 3 characters, they have to 843 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,440 start paying you again. So that was wonderful. 844 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,240 You know, I do, I do 8 characters and they'd have to 845 00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:11,880 pay me three times. Lovely. 846 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,880 Good change. Great. 847 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,680 We do have a, there's a, there's a quite a lot of Doctor Who fans 848 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,880 that listen to this podcast. So I'm going to have to, I'm 849 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,360 obliged. Genesis of the Daleks Yes, I'm. 850 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:25,960 Obliged to ask. You I played Raven. 851 00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,400 Yes. General Raven. 852 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,960 Yeah, General Raven. Very boy General and of course, 853 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,040 you know, if you go back to I mean, it was way before low, low 854 00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,760 and way before secret army, but of course he was a kind of a a 855 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,400 Hitler youth really. He was a boy Nazi. 856 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:48,720 I mean, that's why, you know, that was what the reason it's so 857 00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:50,200 popular. I think it's beautifully 858 00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,200 written. Terry Nation was brought back to 859 00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,600 write it and it was the first one he'd written for some years. 860 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,880 And so he went back to the beginning of the story, you 861 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,000 know, how the Daleks were came into being. 862 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:10,760 And and yes, the, the, the, the boy I played was, was really a 863 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,960 little, a little Nazi. I mean, and you know, the 864 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,880 costumes were suggestive of that and so on. 865 00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:23,960 And I did a lot of shouting at at poor Tom Baker, who actually 866 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,760 terrified me. But yeah, that. 867 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,000 Was that was. A good, great job to have done, 868 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:30,840 but good fun. Yeah. 869 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,560 So I would normally I would, I would say you know what, what, 870 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,040 what aspect of your career are you most proud of? 871 00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:39,600 I imagine you'd probably say hello. 872 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,560 Hello. I, I will, I'm sorry to be 873 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,160 predictable, but yes, I mean, for goodness sake, Taylor, it 874 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:52,440 was 10 years of my, of my working careers, you know, 1/4 875 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:59,920 of my career more and more because, you know, there were, 876 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:07,400 there were extra stage shows and specials and that sort of thing. 877 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,240 And of course, we still do conventions from time to time. 878 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:16,560 Kim and I and Richard go out together, the three of us to, to 879 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,200 do. We're doing one in a few weeks 880 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,000 in Welshpool and it's lovely, you know, drive down there, put 881 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,800 the costume on and sign autographs for a couple of days 882 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,960 and then meet fans. And it's, it's a wonderful 883 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,080 experience and it's kind of giving back as well. 884 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:36,560 You know, people love to meet, meet the cast, and we make 885 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,160 people laugh and we have a great time together because we're so 886 00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,800 fond of each other. Well, that comes across in the 887 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,840 podcast, which is. Well, I'm so glad. 888 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,000 Yes, the podcast. Is very carefully. 889 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,920 You you can find it on your favorite on your favorite 890 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,480 podcast app. It's on everything. 891 00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,920 It's on YouTube, it's on Spotify, it's on whatever. 892 00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:58,040 It's not all of them. Anything you want to know about 893 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,800 what I'm doing now? I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm involved in 894 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:06,640 two television series at the moment, Guy signer.com, my 895 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,960 website and there's a diary on there which which has. 896 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:16,480 Links and stuff in it and I try to keep that updated, what I'm 897 01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,400 doing at the moment, what I'm shooting at the moment. 898 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,880 So yes, one can always find it out what what, if one's 899 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,400 interested, what I'm doing and where I'm going. 900 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:32,000 So so TV, films, podcasting now. Any plans to slow down? 901 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,160 Any plans to retire? No, no, they'll have to carry me 902 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,480 out in the box. No, no slowing down. 903 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:44,440 I mean, we're we're just about to to have a screening when in 904 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,080 the 24th. Where are we the 9th So later 905 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:52,960 this month of a of a of a short version of our film Misty. 906 01:00:53,000 --> 01:01:00,480 I and my writing partner David Mansell have have a a a movie 907 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,840 and we're doing a screening for the cast and crew. 908 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,240 It's a sort of thank you to them really. 909 01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:08,560 But also investors are coming and hopefully we're going to get 910 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,840 the money for the to make the full length feature. 911 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,000 It's a horror. Film, horror film. 912 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,480 So are you in that or are you just? 913 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,960 I am in and that's very exciting. 914 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,080 So yes, I never stop really, Tyler. 915 01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,280 I mean it, it, it's lucky me people still employ me. 916 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,720 If you won't employ me, I'll employ myself, which is what I'm 917 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:33,120 doing with Misty. Your IMDb. 918 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,600 Is the length of a football field well? 919 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,720 Again, I say lucky me, you know that people still seem to want 920 01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:46,240 to see me and and you know, yeah, I, I, I'm so lucky. 921 01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,360 I'm so lucky. I love what I do. 922 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,640 I do what I love. And we'll keep doing it as long 923 01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,240 as they as long as they'll pay me. 924 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,800 And I'm hoping that the the day I cease to be able to do it, 925 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:05,280 well, somebody will have a quiet word in my ear or quietly hit me 926 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,960 on the head with a hammer. So I won't, you know, I won't 927 01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,240 bore people to death. But as I say at the moment, 928 01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,320 Touchwood, they still seem to like what I do and I like what I 929 01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,640 do. So I keep doing it. 930 01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160 And what a. What a perfect way to end so 931 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,000 guy. Listen, it's been a pleasure and 932 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,800 a privilege. Thank you very much. 933 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:28,280 Thank you. It's been my pleasure.