There's nothing there but a plate of mincemeat.
Cuba, have you been mincing? The little doggy is very
particular. He will not touch chunky food.
But the painting, that was a valuable painting in the
sausage. I know I removed it.
It's in the ice compartment. You have ruined one of the
world's. Greatest masterpieces.
If I may say so, that was not the masterpiece, that was the
forgery the. Forgery.
The forgery. The forgery.
Somebody must have substituted the forged painting in the
Gestapo sausage for the real painting in the Gestapo sausage
when the sausage was in the cafe.
Or the Resistance substituted the forged painting for the real
painting in the Gestapo sausage when they stole the sausage.
Or you, hair Guba with your well known leaning towards art, have
substituted the false painting for the real painting and your
dog returns the sausage to your quarters, cleverly mincing the
sausage to remove all places of my little spastica which I had
placed on the side of it so that now I will never know whether it
was the original sausage or just any old sausage.
Hello and welcome to Goon Pod. Although in light of who my
guest is this week, perhaps I should say good morning and
welcome to Goon Pod. Or maybe not.
I must confess, and I confess this freely, it wasn't beaten
out of me Gestapo style. I must confess that I spent a
wretched 15 minutes this afternoon trying to write an
Arthur Bostrom type introduction for comic effect, trying to
workshop something. You know, something like Hello
and welcome to Gun Paid or something like that.
But I wasted far too long trying to think of words which, when
mispronounced, sounded a bit rude.
So thankfully I abandoned that idea.
And I think we can all agree that that was a bullet dodged
to. The whole reason I've been
jabbering away like this is because I can barely control my
delight at this week's guest. He is someone I've admired for
40 years now. He's he's British sitcom
royalty, a man known the world over for playing a member of the
German occupying army in wartime France, an officer back from the
Russian front with his own little tank, and a thing for an
overweight, balding cafe owner and his identical twin brother.
You know him as Lieutenant Gruber from Allo Allo.
It's Guy Signer. Hello, Thank you very much for
that kind introduction, and I'm so glad you didn't go on at too
much length about Arthur Bostrom, because he should have
been your guest if you were going to do so.
Yes. Well, yes, yeah, absolutely.
I've, I mentioned him before I mentioned you.
How rude. Absolutely very rude.
So guy, as I say, I I've known you.
I've known of you obviously for since I'm a huge, huge fan of
LOLO as a child. And it was only recently that I
was I noticed online that you were promoting the fact that you
and friends, friends and colleagues have a brand new
podcast of your own, which is what is it?
It's it's where you sit around drinking gin and reminisce about
the old days. It's called Listen Very
Carefully and and it's with Richard Gibson and Kim Hartman.
Exactly. The three of us, we're, we're
very close friends and have been well for 40 years now.
We, we, we've got on very well since really since the start of
the show. And we decided only a few weeks
ago it might be rather, rather fun to do, to do a podcast about
about Ello Ello for fans, people who remember the show and will
remember us. Lucky us if they do.
And each week we we watch together, the three of us
together on episode and then we talk about it, and then we talk
around it. And then we have a little gin,
and then we talk around it some more, and we go off on to
wonderful tangents and talk about quite other things.
I always thought when we would drive up, we'll be driven to the
location and you'd suddenly round a corner and there you'd
see the portaloos and the catering truck and that hundreds
of extras and all the crews. The lighting trucks would be
enormous. And the lights were enormous.
Yeah. Also, the equipment is so much
lighter. Your cameras are a tenth of the
size of what they were. I mean even the best and most
glamorous Alexa or Harifax or whatever.
Don't say Alexa. Don't say Alexa, they're tiny.
Alexa, they're tiny. Sorry, I don't know that she
doesn't. Alexa, have you ever watched
Aloe Aloe? This might answer your question.
Aloe Aloe is a British sitcom television.
Alexa, that's enough. She knows what she knows.
Alexa, what's this? She should.
All together, I think it's huge fun.
It's been very well received. People are really enjoying it.
And, and I was very touched with your review, Tyler, which was
which was to say that the only thing you you thought was wrong
with it was it was too short. And I told you that, that the
length of the episodes vary. It depends how we feel and what,
you know what, what's in the episode, how much we find there
is to talk about that sort of thing and what's going on in our
lives at the time, you know, at the moment.
And who walks into Kim's kitchen where we do the recording?
Whether it's one of the cats or Kim's husband or the milkman,
you'll never know. Kim, Well, Kim.
As well as being known for playing Helga, she's also
nowadays a a pub quiz question, isn't she?
Which sitcom actress is the aunt of director Christopher Nolan?
Oh yes, I, I suppose so. I hadn't thought of that.
But yes, of course, because her husband, of course is John
Nolan, who was in his own right, a wonderful actor and and he is
a wonderful actor and who has has appeared in a lot of
Christopher Nolan's movies. And yes, so the the whole family
are are Nolan's and yes, they work together quite a bit.
Yeah, yeah. And it was a revelation for me.
I mean, obviously I knew. I knew when I was, I knew when I
was watching alone when I was a child that the three of you,
Richard, yourself and Kim were not Germans.
But so I didn't expect you, you to have a German accent.
I didn't expect Kim to have a German accent, of course.
But for some reason, I expected Richard Gibson to have a German
accent. I don't know why.
Ridiculous. Yeah.
And and also I it's only recently, I think it was
something that you said on the podcast.
I only recently realized that the character of Hair Flick was
meant to be very young in the show.
Is that is that? Is that.
Have I got that right? He was meant to be almost like
sort of straight out of the Hitler Youth.
Is that right? Well, I, I don't know about
that. I mean, Richard looked very
young, you know, he was very pretty and, and very blonde and
so on. So I suppose the, the youth
thing kind of works. Worked for David Croft when he
saw him. But yes, I don't know how young
he was supposed to be. He was what he's, he's, he's a
few years younger than me, so I suppose he was in his, what,
late 20s when we started the show?
OK. I was in my mid 30s, So yes.
But I think it, I think it helped a lot to take the sort of
curse off the, the fact that he was a member of the Gestapo,
that, that he was young and, and had a sort of vulnerability
despite his, despite his performance, which was anything
but vulnerable. He did have a, a a sort of, as
he said himself, you know, at my core, I am in fact a big softie.
He's he wasn't a big softie at all.
But but I, I think it was, as I say, I think it was it was good
that he looked as if he might have had a soft core.
I think it helped yes to take the curse off the character.
Absolutely. We'll, we'll, we'll come on to
talk about in a bit. I just wanted to talk about,
well, actually before we talk about yourself specifically,
obviously this is a show which ostensibly is about the goons
and, and focuses on the goons and their output.
I appreciate that. It's, it's not that, you know,
you said to me earlier the goon show is something that you
distantly remember, but you know, I haven't got you want to
talk about the goons or the goon show.
I got you one because I am a big fan of LOL and I admire your
work. So yeah, that, that, that was
the reason. But let me just ask you just go
through the the form as it were, did you?
Because I know you were born in the United States, weren't you?
I was, I was. But that that doesn't really
have anything to do with the Goon Show because I was educated
in England. I mean, I I came to England when
I was five. OK, Yeah.
So, yeah, in the early 50s. So I certainly heard the Goon
Show and and I was a huge admirer of of all of them.
I mean, I think Peter Sellers is, is a real theatrical hero of
mine. Spike Milligan, I thought was in
every way extraordinary. And I mean, he was unique, like,
like almost like no one else I can think of.
He was unique. He was, I think he was quite
mad, but in a wonderful way. And of course, Harry Secombe
was, was, well, you know, that beautiful voice, glorious,
glorious singing voice. And, and, and he was, I don't
know, so straight compared to the other two in a way.
It was just a dynamic which worked beautifully.
It was, it was comic. They were comic geniuses.
And, and it was just, it was so much of his time.
And, and so of course, we all, you know, anyone who was alive
at that time remembers them because they were, you know,
they were, yes, they were everywhere.
But The thing is as well, they were of the time.
But it's amazing. I mean not so much Harry these
days, but it's amazing how much Spike and Peter are still
revered to this day in terms of. I think they all, I think they
all are. But yes, certainly Spike and
Peter. I mean, and certainly Peter, you
know, for all his faults as a human being, he was a a
wonderful performer. He he was, he was really so
gifted as a as a comic, as an actor.
Indeed, you know, even his his straight acting was was quite
extraordinary it. Was and of course you're
obviously you're an actor who can do comedy, but did did you
when you were in your formative years, were you listening to
watching much comedy? Yes, I think, I think I was
always going to be a comic actor.
I was turned on to the to the, to the business prep school.
We used to, we used to get film shows from time to time and in
two or three times a term we would, we would, we would have a
film. And I saw very soon after it was
released, it must have been Monsieur Hulu's Holiday, the the
Jacques Tati film and was absolutely entranced.
I can remember to this day, I mean, I know the film terribly
well. I have, I have it in my library
and I watch it quite a lot. I watch all his films quite
often because I admire him tremendously as both as a
director and as a performer. But I remember even to this day,
how it made me feel at the time seeing that film and how, how
closely I connected with it. And I don't think I, I, I think
I must have made the decision there and then.
Although family history relates that I was age 11 when I
announced to my to my family that this was what I was going
to do with my life. And I've never never varied
since then. I never went through the stage
of wanting to be anything else. I was always going to be an
actor and I think I was always going to be a comic actor.
But but of course, in a, in a very long career, depressingly
long really in terms of how old I am.
I've done every kind of drama and, and everything from comedy
to horror to straight drama to Shakespeare to everything you
can think of. And and so I've I've done a bit
of everything, but but I suppose comedy is where I am most at
home. Am I right in saying your cousin
or cousins Simon and Selena Cadel?
Yes. Cadel.
Yeah, Cadel, sorry. Don't apologise.
Everyone calls. Everyone in England calls them
Cadel. They are Scottish.
Of course, the, the, the name is Scottish and it's cattle.
Yes, they are cousins, but only by marriage.
It's not, it wasn't a it was only a connection.
My, my grandmother's second husband was Simon's grandfather.
So, you know, our grandparents were married to each other.
They are not blood relations. But Speaking of which, his his
grandmother, my grandmother's second husband's sister was Jean
Jean Caddle, who was a very, very famous English character
actress. She played one of the leads in
Whiskey Galore and she played the sort of the, the, the very
strict mother of, of the young hero, very straight, very, yeah,
Scottish. And anyway, Long story short,
she, she read poetry with me as a child and, and I visited her,
I can't remember why. I was sort of, I don't know,
somehow palmed off on her in her flat in London.
And I remember walking in through the front door and
tripping over a pile of scripts because she was much in demand.
But she never, ever read scripts and refused to work at the in
her later years. And she was a bit dotty and had
a lot of cats. And she, she read poetry with
me. And I think she knew very well
then that I was going to be an actor.
I'm talking, I don't know what, how eight or nine or something.
And I think she had decided immediately that this was what I
was going to do, that I was going to be, be, be an actor.
And, and yes, I, as I say, it was quite soon after that that I
made the decision myself. See, the only reason I mentioned
Simon is specific is because I could see when he played Doctor
Geoffrey Fairbrother and Heidi hi, yes, very, very few people
could have played that part. But I I could imagine you
possibly could have played that part.
Yes, it's funny. I mean, there are people who who
say, oh, there's a family resemblance.
Well, of course there isn't. No, because we were only related
by marriage. But but yes, there was a, a, a
sort of likeness. I, you know, I suppose we, we're
the same sort in terms of, of our looks and so on and, and,
and indeed our background. And so, yes, perhaps we, we were
sort of interchangeable. I suppose he could have played
Gruber and I could have played Jeffrey Fairbrother.
Absolutely. And and of course, he was a Nazi
in Enemy at the Door. Yes, he was.
He was and and you were in. You were in a secret an episode
of Secret Army. An episode of, say, a tiny, tiny
part. I only got that role because I
could speak German. And yes, I I was very quickly
killed. And a very good thing too,
probably. Come on, which one of you?
Two speaks English or do both of you?
No. No, no, no, said that for a long
you eavesdro. Mcconus and you don't speak the
lingo. Come on.
But yes, it, it, it, it had nothing to do with anything.
It's just it happened that I was in secret Army and Ello Ello was
kind of a take off of Secret army.
So because one of the guests we want to have on the podcast very
badly is Chan Jan Francis, who played the lead in in Secret
Army. You know, she was the sort of
the resistance girl who was, she was always, you know, in the
little Berry and the yes and, and the White Sox on the
Macintosh. And she said at the time, she
said, I was always saying, listen very carefully.
I shall say this only once. It could be me.
So we so want to have her in,
in, in the podcast because I think she would, she would bring
a lot to it. And she's a dear friend of, of,
of all of us. So.
She would have been doing just good friends at the same time I
guess as. Yeah.
Did they overlap? Yes, I suppose they did, yes.
They did. Yes, I suppose so.
My first memory of seeing LOLO that would have because it began
and the the pilot was 82. Yes, 82 to 92 was the was the
that's right and of of the original show, yes.
Yes, and I would have seen it. I I grew up in New Zealand and
we got oh, did you? It was absolutely massive, yes.
It was, it was the stage show toured New Zealand, Yes, I
didn't go with it, but it it did.
Yeah. I went all around Australia
twice but when the tour to New Zealand came along I I'm so very
sorry because I know what a beautiful country it is and I so
wanted to see it, but I was in a play in the West End and I
couldn't go. Yes well my my first memory of
seeing a level low was walking into the room and the TV was on
and the sound was off. It was mute, the TV was muted
and it looked just like a typical BBC drama because I
couldn't hear anything. It wasn't on Vt, it was location
filming right? So it looked to me like it was
just a wart. ABBC wartime drama.
A movie, right? It was shot on 16 mil, yeah.
Yeah, and and then I can't remember exactly which which
episode it was, but something silly happened which made me
think any. Is this any episode?
Pick an episode. So I turned, I turned the sound
up and then I would just, I was just hooked.
And absolutely, I mean, particularly the 1st, the first
dozen series I, I recorded them and watched them over and over
and over again, right. So, so I would say probably the
first five series. I I still probably know word
perfect. Oh, that's, that's lovely.
Yeah, there, there are an awful lot of people like you as well.
I mean, we, we get fan mail all the time still and, and some
from people like you who remember it, you know, at the
time, and some from small children who have been, you
know, who have learned to love it through their parents or
their grandparents. It's extraordinary.
You know, we have, we have even small children now who, who are
hooked. It's, it's wonderful, but it's,
it keeps, it's the gift that keeps on giving.
You know, it, it, it, as my mother said at the time, she
said everybody from the Duchess to the gardener's daughter loves
this show. I I don't know if everyone's
like this, but with comedies, with sitcoms, with the goons,
even I have a particular, there's always one particular
line that I will always instantly think of if someone
mentions the show, whatever it may be.
Yes, with a lower low, it's more of it's more of a scene that I
remember and it's and you've you've actually mentioned it
recently on your podcast and it's just the delivery is just
it's. Which scene?
It's OK. It's the scene where you meet
Renee, or at least Renee's twin brother.
Renee's been shot, supposedly, and his twin, his twin, his twin
brother has come to the cafe. Allow me to introduce myself.
I am Lieutenant Gruber. I was a very close friend of
your brother. My twin brother, Renee, Yes,
yes, it was very sad. Unfortunately, I was in charge
of the firing party. Yes, I know.
You understand. I hope you will not hold it
against me. I will try not to your usual,
whatever that may be. That is my usual How
extraordinary. You bear a most remarkably close
resemblance to Renee. I know.
You even have the same pretty rings.
Yes, yes, he left them to me now.
I come to look. Your eyelashes are a little
longer and your hands are more artistic.
Somebody told me you arrived from Nancy's this morning.
Yes, he's quite right. Is that where you and Renee
Babong? Yes, we were both Nancy boys.
And it's the way Kay Gordon Kay's voice falters halfway
through that sentence. Yes, yes.
As he realizes. What he's saying through the
sentence, he realizes what he's about to say.
It's amazing. And then and then it has to
finish the sentence. Yes, it those the set pieces at
the bar the the the misunderstandings between
between Lieutenant Gruber and and and Rene were were an
absolute joy to play. And and the writers obviously
after the pilot, the very famous matches seen with with the
misunderstanding about the you know, are you one of them?
And, and it became, they immediately saw that they struck
gold. And so, you know, there were
wonderful scenes with with, with, with the two of us at the
bar where where you know, like the radio under the counter,
which which wouldn't stop talking, giving code messages,
all of which I misunderstood completely.
And, you know, appeared to suggest and and and I thought
Rene was talking and they appeared to suggest that he was
giving me the come on. You know, it was, it was so
beautifully written and and a joy to play, as I say.
Was there any, did you get any criticism from any quarters
about well for how you portrayed Gruber's sexuality?
Right, the reverse. I got an awful lot of male from
from gay men and not what I expected to talk, but people who
would thank me, sometimes really quite emotionally brokenly as it
were. Or.
Or portraying a gay character as a real man rather than being
limp wristed and carrying. I mean, I know I was very often
disguised as a woman of the opposite sex and indeed enjoyed
it very much. But he wasn't, he was a tank
officer. He was a soldier.
If he'd had a a sort of a lift and, and, and, and a limp wrist,
his men would have probably killed him.
You know, he was a tank officer. He was, he was, he was, yes.
You have to bear in mind the period.
But at the same time, I remember of saying to David very early on
in rehearsals for the pilot, I said, you know, if this is to
be, if this is to be John Inman, you need to get someone else
because that's not, you know, that's not what I intend to do
with this at all. And he said absolutely not.
That's why I hired you. I want you to be, I want you to
be as real as possible, because that's where the comedy lies.
And and it's it's important this.
I'm quite glad you asked it because it it it was a
departure. You know, it was, it was not
only acceptable, but it was, it was considered the dumb thing
for gay characters to be screaming Queens.
If you like, you know, Liberace, John Inman of fond memory, bless
him, wonderful actor, but you know that that sort of.
Julian and Sandy from Round the Horn.
Yes, yes, Julian and Sandy from from Round the Horn, that sort
of, you know, shut that door. You know, it was it.
That was what people found amusing.
And by the early 80s that was very passe.
You know, we were not that far from at the time when, you know,
homosexuality became first of all legal and then acceptable.
And then, you know, men began to marry each other, you know, and,
and, and today it's a completely different world.
Well, I was sort of on the cusp of that world.
And as I say, a lot of gay people found it very refreshing
that they were not being ridiculed for once.
Well, that's it, that's it. There was you and then after you
in sickness and health. Do you remember that?
The elf Garnet. Space.
That started in 85 and very quickly it introduced a gay
character called, a black gay character called Winston, don't
know if you remember. And he, he was very sympathetic.
He was very, he played it straight, almost.
He he would put it on sometimes just to wind up elf.
Exactly. Well, you know, the same thing
with with Gruber. You know, he, he, he, he was
perfectly happy when asked to disguise himself as a woman of
the opposite sex and, and to actually swing a handbag.
But at the same time, he was, he was, you know, to all intents
and purposes, a straight man. And, and it, it, it was, it was
fun to play almost for that reason that, that, that it
wasn't making fun of anyone. You know, the whole show was
making fun of everybody. But I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't
sending up gayness. It wasn't making homosexuality
appear ridiculous. No, absolutely.
This is going to sound childish, OK, as a teenage boy, which I
was by by the time that this happened, I was devastated when,
and this is no inference on on Sue Hodge whatsoever, but I was
devastated when Maria departed the show.
Well, between you and me, so was I.
Yes, yes. She was very beautiful.
Yes. We still occasionally do have
reunions where, you know, we, we, we do charity events, that
kind of thing. And Fran is, is very often with
us. She is a wonderful artist,
painter and she spends much of her time in Spain because of the
light. And then also there are family
collections, but because of the light mainly.
And she paints beautifully. But yeah, Fran, is, is is kind
of one of us, if you like. But, you know, listen, it's like
any job, you know, out of the, I don't know, a dozen of us that
the sort of the main characters, you know, three or four became
firm friends for life. And well, as I say, that's like
any job, isn't it? You, You, you, you.
Everybody's a colleague, but but a few people become wonderful
friends and and if you're lucky, life lifelong friends, which Kim
and Richard are. And then of course you had, you
have the in the show, you had some stand out vintage, what I
would call vintage performers. So I'm thinking specifically
Jack Hague, Rose Hill, and and of course, Kenneth Connor.
Of course. And just to slightly drag it
back to the goons momentarily, do you know that there's a big
connection between Kenneth Connor and the goons?
I I didn't watch it, what is it? He appeared in two episodes of
The Goon Show. Did he?
I didn't know that. Yes, he was good friends with
Sellers. I wish I'd known that I would
have talked to him about it. He's.
A lovely man and I was very fond of him.
Oh, just the the I think his introductory episode of a lower
low is the the the timing was. Impeccable, impeccable.
He's a consummate actor really. And, and we had that wonderful,
wonderful scene together, of course, where I, I was forced to
interrogate him. And, you know, the, the general
said to the Colonel, you know, you go on, you interrogate him.
And the Colonel of course said to me immediately, you do it.
I had no idea. And I had to, the general then
said, well, use the manual, you know, do it properly.
And so I had to interrogate him from the manual of
interrogation. Yes, right now listen to me
carefully and understand this. We know everything.
In that case, can I go? Ask him about the mounds of
earth. Of course, what about the mounds
of earth? What mounds of earth?
We ask the questions, where exactly did you see them,
General? It's the graveyard.
Five are little mounds of earth
appearing in the graveyard. Could it perhaps be the moles?
That seems perfectly logical. Excellent not.
To me, you are up to something. Six of your grave.
Diggers have been at work night and day, but no one is getting
buried. How do you account for this?
Well, you see, general in the summertime when business is
slack, we try to stock up for the winter time when they pop
off. Are you satisfied with this
explanation, Carne? Definitely not general.
But I am and. Be more careful in future.
Yes General, my card 24 hour service.
I will bury you swiftly and with style.
It was a joy. And I remember the the, the part
of me, the part of of any actor which which stands apart when
you're playing a scene, you know, there's a little part of
you that's, you know, watching in the cameras and watching your
Marks and making sure you, you know, listening to the audience
and all that timing, the jokes and stuff.
And that part of me was thinking, you know, Jesus, here
I am, Studio One, BBC Television Centre, and I'm playing a scene
with one of the greatest comics of the generation, who I've been
watching since I was a little boy in the Carry On films.
And, and here we are together, the two of us.
And I had and it's something no one can ever take away from me.
Yeah, one of the reasons our lower low is still fresh is that
in a way it's a period piece, like a bit like Dad's Army and a
bit like Blackadder, because it was it was dated when it
originally went out, if you know what I mean.
It was set in the past, so the dialogue is anachronistic often
and the but but the fashions and the settings are very familiar
to audiences of all generations. Unlike when you see repeats of
80s sitcoms like, I don't know, Butterflies or No Place like
Home or Rude Health, where the, where the eye in the air is
distracted by the fashions and the just the, the hairstyles and
everything like that. A lower load, like Dad's Army,
like Black Hatter, it will always be timeless.
Yes, I, I, I think you're right. And it's, it's interesting that
we, we, we often ask ourselves why it, it, the popularity is,
is, is such as it still is after all these years.
And I mean, goodness, you know, it is more than 40 years and,
and I think it is, it is, it is mainly that it is mainly that it
was that it, that it is had a historical setting.
And so it was always, it was a period piece and therefore it
never, it never gets dated. Because it was.
Automatically dated by definition, but I think it is a
bit more than that. And we talked about this a lot
because when we started the podcast, you know, the first
thing we said to each other was, you know, is anybody going to be
interested? And then, but then, you know,
the, the popularity is, is so great still all around the
world. I mean, you know, it sells to
nearly 100 countries. How many countries are there in
the world, 300 or something? It sells to a third of them.
And you know, in some countries like Spain, for instance, it
plays in three different languages.
It's that really, yes, it plays in, in Spanish, in Catalan and
in Basque. And it's that popular that it,
it, it, it plays all over the world.
And you know, I've been stopped in the streets in New York
wearing a suit and sunglasses by a fan, you know, and, and, and
the same thing in Melbourne. It, it's quite extraordinary
how, how popular it's been all over the world.
And I think it's, it's more than it just being historic, you
know, set in, in, in, in period. I think it's, I also think it
the, the two writers absolutely hit, hit the mark in a way they
did never did before or since. It just, it just, you know, I
think it's, it, it, it's no accident that it's basically,
it's the most popular series the BBC have ever made, you know, by
the, the, the numbers, by the sales, foreign sales and so on.
It, it just hit the mark. And so many people of all ages
and all this, my, my mother said all classes.
It just worked for, for everybody.
And you know, there was a time when the BB, the ratings used to
come out in the stage every week.
And there was a time when the ratings are always, were always
the same because the two major soaps at the time, which were
Neighbours and EastEnders, I believe, and they were the two
of them were counted twice because of the Sunday special.
They had a Sunday omnibus. And so the ratings are always
unfair. It was always, you know,
Neighbours, EastEnders, EastEnders Neighbours or
EastEnders Neighbours, Neighbours, whatever.
But because they were counted twice so they always were top of
the ratings. And there was one magnificent
week where it went EastEnders, neighbours, a low, a low,
Neighbours, EastEnders, something like that.
We came third of the ratings and and beat two of them.
They were counted twice and we were selling for 20.
We were sorry, playing to 25,000,000.
Now that was That means half the television sets in the country
were tuned to Allo Allo half. Think about it.
You wouldn't get that these days.
No. Well, it's of course then there
were four channels and it's a different world now, of course,
But even then that was absolutely exceptional.
I mean something like. And faulty towers, for instance,
would play to what, 4 million? Maybe five?
Hello, hello played to 25. Up yours faulty towers.
Now I I yield to no man in my admiration for 40 towers.
Trust me, I think it was absolutely wonderful.
Yeah, it was a it was a huge, huge crowd pleaser and and
generational kids from kids to grandparents, they would enjoy
it. Yeah.
Absolutely. The Queen Mother used to have
the television set wheeled into dinner and she wouldn't miss it.
OK, who who, who was the most challenged?
I don't mean necessarily, I don't mean who didn't you like
working with, but who was the most challenging to work with in
terms of maybe making you corpse or or whatever.
Was there anybody? The worst corps was was
unquestionably Miss Hartman, and still is, and and the worst
person for making people corpse was Richard Gibson, and still
is. They don't, they never change.
But difficult, difficult to work with.
Nobody really. I mean, everybody had different
strengths. You know, some people were just
a joy. And Ken, Ken Connor was was the
perfect example. Sam Kelly, who played Hans
Kilian, again, a consummate actor, just beautiful actor and
wonderful to play a scene with Gordon, wonderful to play a
scene with a difficult man, but but wonderful actor and, and,
and he was so perfect in that part.
And, and yes, together, we, we, we, we did make some, some good,
some good television, I think. I was, I guess he was more
difficult after the accident, was he?
Yes, that's, that's certainly true.
I mean, he and, and, and bless him, he had, you know, life was
more difficult for him. He had the occasional epileptic
fit, which the brain injury caused and you know, and he
wasn't allowed to drive and he found that very frustrating.
And you know that it can't have been easy for him.
Sure, Absolutely. Absolutely.
I don't know how you feel about this.
I was a bit surprised by the whole storyline right at the end
of the series where Richard Gibson, I guess he was maybe a
prior commitment, but he couldn't make the last series.
Is that right? So.
Yes, they. They brought in David Jansen and
and the idea was that he was hair flicked with plastic
surgery. Yes, yes.
And, and I, I haven't got a lot to say about that other than
you, you know, terribly difficult for David to take over
from, from Richard Gibson. It it difficult for anybody to
take over from a character who'd been so well established, for
goodness sake, for 8-9 series, you know, bad enough after a
couple of series, but after nine years, you know, impossible.
The talk about being on a losing wicket, you know, hadn't a hope.
But I think I think the writers made a mistake.
I wouldn't have I wouldn't have have done done things that way.
I would have promoted from small house and perhaps or something,
you know, I or brought in a new character.
I wouldn't have done the the yeah business of of plastic
surgery. I think it was a mistake.
Now it very rarely works when you try and maintain the
character without you actor. The 11 other thing that I
thought was I thought was maybe a misstep.
You might think otherwise. The the IT was an interesting
experiment. The 26 episode series 6 that was
short episodes designed to sell to the US.
Yes, it just seemed I mean they were funny, but it just seemed
too much. I felt.
I don't know. How do you how did you feel
about that series? Well, that was a commercial
decision because the Americans were paying for it.
Right. You know, that was, that was
because, yeah, the Americans came over and bought it
basically and said, all right, you know, we need you to make 26
because that's how we do things in the States.
We don't 7 episodes a year and no use to us at all.
We need 26 a year. And because you know that that's
a season in the States and that's how comedy series are
made. You know, I, I was in Seinfeld
and that's how we did Seinfeld. You know, we did 26 a year and
then we were on holiday and then we did 26 more.
That's the way it's done. So yeah, the Americans paid for
it. And so immediately the BBC
couldn't, couldn't, they didn't have the studio time.
So we were farmed out to, to a studio in Elstree, actually the
old puppet studio, and we shot it there and we had a, we didn't
have time to go away filming because of the, the schedule was
so tight. So we had, they built a, they
built a film lot at Elstree next to the EastEnders external set,
the the Albert Square set. And we shot all the exterior
stuff there at Elstree. And then we shot the studio
stuff in the Muppet studio. Yeah, in, in, in Elstree and,
and, and we made, yeah, we made 26 on the trot because it was
for the American market. So.
Must have been a strain for you, that for all of you.
Having done that, oh God, it was especially as at one point we
were, we were doing the stage show at the same time.
Oh. God.
So we, it was a, it was a nightmare actually.
And for the writers, you know, the David and Jeremy wrote all
26, just the two of them. And again in America, of course,
you know, they have teams of writers.
They have. A.
Dozen writers at least, all of whom have have assistants, you
know, which is how they can do 26 a year.
But David and Jeremy tried to do 26 all on their own.
And they were, they would, you know, leave the set in the
evening and fall asleep in their cars.
And you know, it was awful, but but oh, it was magical time.
Magical time. Oh my God, I have missed him and
shot the women of the streets. That was my gun.
She shot them with my gun.
I was pissing by the door. I heard two shots.
You are holding in your hand a smoking goon.
You are clearly the guilty potty.
I did not do it. Tell him I did not do it.
I was not looking. Officer, you have no authority
over the glorious German army. This was just an ordinary crime
of passion that happens in France on any Saturday night.
But if it should come to the ears of General von Klinkoff, if
it should come to the ears of General that that that that an
officer allowed his gun to be taken from him, then both he and
his superior would be in very hot water.
You see, you are in it too. For the usual bribe of 50,000
francs, I trust you will overlook this incident.
Did I make those shut? Up the pilot of a Lolo, I
believe prompted a a a flurry of letters from desiccated old
kernels on the light writing into the BBC complaining about a
lower load. Basically is that is that
correct? Yeah, we had a few, a few people
who, who, yes, but, you know, disgusted from Tunbridge Wells.
You didn't understand the concept, which was, you know,
oh, how dare you make fun of the war.
We weren't making fun of the war.
We were making fun of programs about the war being a film, war
films, the sort of stiff up, stiff up a lip series and, and,
and movies that that, you know, saw the war only from one side
and so on. And everybody was, was made fun
of. You know, the Germans, the
English were made fun of. The Germans were made fun of.
The French were made fun of. Nobody escaped David and
Jeremy's eye for parody and and it was all done with tremendous
fondness and tremendous good humour.
And, and there were there were other people.
I mean, you know, there was a letter of the times from the
widow of the White Rabbit, the. Oh yeah.
Famous, famous, a member of the of, of the well, a British
leader of the French Resistance who was murdered by the Gestapo.
And, and, and she said he, that's how we got through it.
He would have loved it. He would have loved it.
We got through the war laughing at it, at ourselves, at the
Germans, at, you know. Well, that that's the thing and
the reason I mentioned that is because there's the IT was just
following in in what I would call the the great tradition of
World War 2 parodies and comic satire as it stretched right
back to the goons because they were regularly sending up the
war, yes, and and that's because they've been through it, of
course. So they had a.
Certain amount of life Milligan wrote about it didn't he wrote
a. Yeah, biography about it.
You. Know, but but, but but the point
is, and then of course you've got films like The Producers,
which came later. And but there seem, there seems
there seems to be a tendency towards, I don't know, hand
wringing over any sort of making what people see as making light
of World War Two, sort of a sensitivity sensitivity.
Well, make light of anything, you know, I'm a great believer.
You know, there there isn't there's nothing you can you can
not make fun of and and laugh about nothing it it's just a
question of how you do it. And there are always going to be
people who object and you know, people who I don't know, don't
have a life or seem to think they, you know, should be in a
position to tell everyone else how to live theirs.
And I have no time for that. You know, I don't the thing, the
thing either stands or it doesn't on it's own merits as
far as I'm concerned. And if it works, it works.
If it doesn't, it doesn't. And I don't have any time for
disgusted from Tunbridge Wells, whatever he thinks.
Yeah, before we wrap up, if we've got the time, I just want
to quickly touch on some other aspects of your career, guy.
My friend Chris messaged me said you're one of those great actors
who turns up in the most bizarre places and makes you smile, like
turning up in Babylon 5 and Leprechaun 4.
Yes, well, both of those interesting.
I mean Babylon five, it was just another job and and that was
wonderful because I got to work with Mira Folland, who who was a
truly great actress. She was a sort of the Meryl
Streep of, of, of Yugoslavia, then Yugoslavia who fled the war
and and then became a sort of mini star in in Los Angeles.
And we had a, we had a rather sort of a love in when we met
because she was a huge fan of a Lolo.
All right. A huge fan of hers.
So we became great friends. But the Leprechaun was was
actually written for me when Brian Trenchard Smith, the
wonderful director, conceived it and the writer was writing it,
They came up, came up with this character and Brian immediately
thought of me and called me and said you want to come and the
writer. And so yes, it was.
It was actually written for me, which was lovely.
For years I have dreamt of the opportunity to rejoin the human
race. Did you know that I was once
considered quite dashing? Really.
Of course, of course. And then the experiment.
The experiment, yes. I would have been the first
computer is an organic structure.
Something went wrong. No, Herald, it all went
according to plan. Moron.
Look at me. There's one of those lovely
things when, when the when the show came out on the breakdown
that Warwick and I were both cast and, and that's a lovely
feeling, you know, because when it comes out on the breakdown
for all the agents, you see, your name is already cast before
the breakdowns go out. It's, it's, it's a great
accolade. And and once and you want to
only 10 actors to have been in both Doctor Who and Star Trek?
Yes. Can you name the other nine?
Well, I no, I can't, but I can tell you, I think I am the only
actor people say online. I read somewhere years ago that
I am the only actor to have been in all the four great sci-fi
franchises have been involved in Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5
and Doctor Who. We didn't know about Star Wars.
Yeah, I, I did. I did six of the Star Wars
games. I played the lead in one of
them. The CB rocks.
I played the lead in TIE Fighter, which is.
I played the main character in TIE Fighter, which is again, I
still get fan mail for that. OK.
Yes, that was, that was 10 days in a voice studio, just me and
the director and the, and the engineer in a voice studio in in
North Hollywood, 7 1/2 thousand lines.
I had to do is one of those things where, you know, you come
to 2 doors and you have to decide which door the, the game,
the player has to decide which, which door they go through.
And of course the story varies according to which door you
open. And so I had to record two
different completely different stories.
And it was like a like a spider's web because, you know,
they keep coming to different doors.
So yeah, that was that was a hell of a job.
And then, of course, because I did that, George Lucas became a
bit of a fan and kept hiring me again to do.
And then then they realized that I could do voices.
And so they they would hire me to do a small part in something
and then they'd wallet and they'd say, while you're in the
studio, would you, you know, can you just do this other character
and maybe make him, I don't know, Irish or, you know, and
then, oh, can you do a third character and make him, you
know, French? And I'd do that.
And then they'd, and then they'd say a fourth character.
And of course, once, once you've done 3 characters, they have to
start paying you again. So that was wonderful.
You know, I do, I do 8 characters and they'd have to
pay me three times. Lovely.
Good change. Great.
We do have a, there's a, there's a quite a lot of Doctor Who fans
that listen to this podcast. So I'm going to have to, I'm
obliged. Genesis of the Daleks Yes, I'm.
Obliged to ask. You I played Raven.
Yes. General Raven.
Yeah, General Raven. Very boy General and of course,
you know, if you go back to I mean, it was way before low, low
and way before secret army, but of course he was a kind of a a
Hitler youth really. He was a boy Nazi.
I mean, that's why, you know, that was what the reason it's so
popular. I think it's beautifully
written. Terry Nation was brought back to
write it and it was the first one he'd written for some years.
And so he went back to the beginning of the story, you
know, how the Daleks were came into being.
And and yes, the, the, the, the boy I played was, was really a
little, a little Nazi. I mean, and you know, the
costumes were suggestive of that and so on.
And I did a lot of shouting at at poor Tom Baker, who actually
terrified me. But yeah, that.
Was that was. A good, great job to have done,
but good fun. Yeah.
So I would normally I would, I would say you know what, what,
what aspect of your career are you most proud of?
I imagine you'd probably say hello.
Hello. I, I will, I'm sorry to be
predictable, but yes, I mean, for goodness sake, Taylor, it
was 10 years of my, of my working careers, you know, 1/4
of my career more and more because, you know, there were,
there were extra stage shows and specials and that sort of thing.
And of course, we still do conventions from time to time.
Kim and I and Richard go out together, the three of us to, to
do. We're doing one in a few weeks
in Welshpool and it's lovely, you know, drive down there, put
the costume on and sign autographs for a couple of days
and then meet fans. And it's, it's a wonderful
experience and it's kind of giving back as well.
You know, people love to meet, meet the cast, and we make
people laugh and we have a great time together because we're so
fond of each other. Well, that comes across in the
podcast, which is. Well, I'm so glad.
Yes, the podcast. Is very carefully.
You you can find it on your favorite on your favorite
podcast app. It's on everything.
It's on YouTube, it's on Spotify, it's on whatever.
It's not all of them. Anything you want to know about
what I'm doing now? I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm involved in
two television series at the moment, Guy signer.com, my
website and there's a diary on there which which has.
Links and stuff in it and I try to keep that updated, what I'm
doing at the moment, what I'm shooting at the moment.
So yes, one can always find it out what what, if one's
interested, what I'm doing and where I'm going.
So so TV, films, podcasting now. Any plans to slow down?
Any plans to retire? No, no, they'll have to carry me
out in the box. No, no slowing down.
I mean, we're we're just about to to have a screening when in
the 24th. Where are we the 9th So later
this month of a of a of a short version of our film Misty.
I and my writing partner David Mansell have have a a a movie
and we're doing a screening for the cast and crew.
It's a sort of thank you to them really.
But also investors are coming and hopefully we're going to get
the money for the to make the full length feature.
It's a horror. Film, horror film.
So are you in that or are you just?
I am in and that's very exciting.
So yes, I never stop really, Tyler.
I mean it, it, it's lucky me people still employ me.
If you won't employ me, I'll employ myself, which is what I'm
doing with Misty. Your IMDb.
Is the length of a football field well?
Again, I say lucky me, you know that people still seem to want
to see me and and you know, yeah, I, I, I'm so lucky.
I'm so lucky. I love what I do.
I do what I love. And we'll keep doing it as long
as they as long as they'll pay me.
And I'm hoping that the the day I cease to be able to do it,
well, somebody will have a quiet word in my ear or quietly hit me
on the head with a hammer. So I won't, you know, I won't
bore people to death. But as I say at the moment,
Touchwood, they still seem to like what I do and I like what I
do. So I keep doing it.
And what a. What a perfect way to end so
guy. Listen, it's been a pleasure and
a privilege. Thank you very much.
Thank you. It's been my pleasure.