Yes, this is it Sir, £9 a week, no visitors, no music, no
dancing, no cooking, no hot water and no breathing after 11.
And if you want anything, all you have to do is to go and get
it, Sir. Get a typical English sporting
house. Hello and welcome to Goon Pot.
Coming to you live from underneath a long flannel
nightshirt on Salisbury Plain and on the line all the way from
a far-flung former colony is returning guest Andy Bell.
Hello there. I've been flanked and flanged
and everything else in between, but there will be no flannel
night shirts here of any sort because they can lead to extreme
rudeness, as I think we will discover during our
conversation. No, no warm cheeks.
The word was never said the word, but it was implied.
It was implied, yeah, very strongly.
We should, we should return to that.
And Andy, Andy, third time guest, I think.
Is that right? That is indeed right.
I have done The Last Tram, Last Tram and also Christmas Carol
and there is a bit of a link between one of the audio gags on
the last Tram with this episode in terms of using audio to make
a joke, which was of course one of the great breakthroughs of
the Goon show is put. It is juxtaposition.
Juxtaposition of two things which in on themselves are not
necessarily funny, but do it the right way and something happens.
Chemistry. A weird kind of chemistry, yeah.
Regular listeners will already know your back story, but you
are a A a A originally a Scouser I think.
Is that right? Or a bit further north than
that. I'm a sand groaner from
Fleetwood. Fleetwood That's right.
But by happenstance and strange things happening, I'm a Welsh
speaking Australian citizen who runs a podcast about
broadcasting in the media from my bedroom in Canberra.
But it's it's, it's focused on Welsh speaking isn't.
It on, on Welsh speakers and it's as one of my guests who was
a professor of politics said on the thing the other day, niche
Andy niche. And it is and I am, I promised
previously on this podcast that I'm looking to do something on
the goons in the works now, because I've done a bit more
research and and found that there was quite a deal of
Welshness in the Goon show beyond the special about 5
minute thing they did when Cardiff was declared a city.
And of course, Harry Secombe and of course, or Sharon Ellis on
the harp. So I'm going to do what I call a
pod dog pod, Lydia dog venal. That's your actual Welsh, which
means documentary podcast unless and I put out the call.
If there are any Welsh speaking Goon show fans, fans of Harry
Secombe, all you know of someone please, please, please contact
me Roku body me know he are the Orthomoth.
I will be very delighted, but it's going to happen anyway
because there's quite a lot of material one way or another.
And of course, Sellers, it was in a film filmed in my the city
of my academic triumph, Swansea. So there's lots of linkage.
Raglen Cumbre RHAGLEN new word Cymru is the name of the program
or the podcast and Raglen Cumbre was the Welsh language title of
the BBC Welsh Home Service. Add over.
Only Two Can Play is a brilliant film.
I love it and when I see places like the Glen Vivian Gallery,
for example, and the library, I worked on Alexandra Road in
Swansea where a lot of those scenes were shot in the BBC
offices there, Alexandra Road, which have just been closed.
But you know the ugly, beautiful town which it is and continues
to be, and I can't shake it off. I'm still a mug supporter of
Swansea City. I was there in March this year
on a very wet afternoon watching rugby and having a Joe's Ice
Cream. But Only Two Can Play is a
splendid film and Kingsley Amis was briefly at University
College, Swansea, my alma mater, as a lecturer.
And the other claim the other linkage for me of that film.
I have been at a dinner table with Kenneth Griffith.
The great Kenneth, who so you said to me before we started
recording that off the back of my interview with Roger Lewis
recently. You've been working your way
through the life and death of Peter Sellers, and Kenneth
Griffith is one of the key interviewees.
It's a wonderful book. It's a wonderful book.
I know it's divisive, but I having worked in broadcasting
sellers pathology is not unique. It's just on steroids.
The way he eats up, spits out, etcetera, etcetera.
And when you I've seen it with creatives, although I was in
news mainly, but I did some program production.
That's when create creatives are a particular lot.
But now Kenneth Griffith, that Sunday lunch, my then partner's
father was ABBC producer who did some documentaries with Kenneth
Griffith. So we used to have quite famous
people. It's the Sunday lunch table.
And I found Kenneth Griffith totally terrifying because he
was very intense. He was in his making
documentaries that never got shown era and very wound up
about it. But he he's brilliant in a
number of the Sellers film. I'm all Right, Jack.
He is particularly splendid in that film.
So I think he's, I think he's great in The Naked Truth, who
he's playing in Sonny McGregor's kind of fact totem.
That's one way of putting it. Yeah, I would.
I would love to have met him. I imagine he was very fierce
towards the end, or even. You picked it, you picked it.
He was fierce and what he was and I would have only been 2223.
He would challenge any any kind of confident statement and and
frankly rightly so. But I peeled the spuds.
Actually I peeled the spuds with with Vaughan's mum and and we
had a few sherries along the way.
But we were we're in a domestic situation.
But it's a great it's something to look back on when I think,
oh, I've had Sunday lunch with Kenneth Griffiths and and a few
others besides which I won't name drop.
How fortunate are you to see them?
Are they? But it always strikes me with
people like that when I meet them socially or the camera
stops were whirring. When are they ever off is a
performance? You get just a lower key version
of the big performance. And of course, going back to
Sellers again, he never wasn't performing.
In fact, friends were audience. I've just come up actually.
I literally put the book down before we started talking of the
going to the Duke Ellington concert in his Roller and he
couldn't part the damn thing so he went back with his friends to
show them a 16 millimetre version of The Producers before
it was released. End of story.
He didn't have a take up sport, It never got shown.
He ruined the night for everybody.
But they were his audience and perhaps some of that audience
never came back for more. Others did, of course.
So much of seller's life was a was a litany of ruined evenings
for people. Yes, we talk and I've heard you
talk frequently about, you know, Spike is the difficult character
and we all know that and all the rest of it.
But Spike seemed to have his number from Roger Lewis's quotes
in the book and and Spike seemed to have picked him.
But perhaps is that just positing Spike's awareness of
mental health might have helped him a bit there.
Because he he, when you've gone through any kind of mental
health treatment, you tend to be more attuned to that.
But he was the 50s and behaviour was so different it isn't funny.
That's a very good point which I've never really thought about.
But yeah, I guess Spike recognised in Sellers maybe
elements of his own personality perhaps.
But yeah, just cycling back to briefly to try and get us onto
the subject of today's show. Getting back to the Welsh side
of things, are you aware of a of a BBC Radio show from the 50s
called Welsh Rabbit? Absolutely produced by my Jones
who who actually wrote We'll Keep a Welcome in the Hillsides.
And Welsh Rabbit was incredibly popular because BBC in Wales,
because it was operating in 2 languages, did shows in 2
languages and therefore it's expertise in light int was
probably there. I say of a higher level than
certainly Northern Ireland and possibly Scotland.
So it punched above it's weight. But yes, very aware of Welsh
Rabbit. OK.
And Harry, relatively early on in his career, did quite a bit
on Welsh Rabbit. I, I believe now, late November
1957, it transfers to television.
And the reason I mentioned that is because the topic of today's
show was broadcast in late November 1957.
There's a Segway for you, isn't it?
Welder I. Love a pivot.
I I did know about the television program because I
believe I haven't got the genome project in front of me here, but
I believe the Co producer of that television program was the
man around whose dining table I sat with Kenneth Griffith 20 odd
years late. Well, there were only a couple
of producers in in and in those days they did everything.
But I know he did shows with my Jones and in he did Come
Dancing, he did rugby, he did the Eisteddfod and he ended up
making some amazing documentaries.
His name was Selwyn Roderick. He did a wonderful doco about
Tiger Bay in Cardiff, including early Shirley Bassey.
But anyway, we have to we yes. I'm going to mention, I'm going
to mention Shirley Bassey briefly later.
So put a kid in her. Oh yes.
So everything's got connections, all these tendrils.
I'm just looking at another piece of paper in front of me to
try and work out if it's the same pin.
I don't think it is though. No, it won't be.
I can guarantee it. Oh, right.
Oh, oh, I love it. You see, people have to keep
listening, you poor buggers. And anyway, we'll get to that,
we'll get to that. But but what are we here to talk
about today? Andy, tell the the ladies and
gentlemen at home. You gave me a list of pick an
episode and there were none of them were familiar to me, so I
chose the policy. They approached the spot where
Seagoon is fast asleep, standing ridgely to attention in his long
white night shirt. Oh.
Look bottle short fat tent. Yes, it is a tent.
Here, let's cut inside out of the cold.
Yes, you hold the flap up and I'll crawl underneath.
OK, you first. OK.
Now me. Oh, that's better.
Oh yeah. Much warmer, nice and cozy in
here. Yes, I'm much warmer now because
you feel my cheek. Fit.
Dark. Oh yeah.
So you're, you're, you're warm. You're getting fatter too, you
know. What do you mean you haven't
touched me yet? Yeah.
So the policy, so I was aware, it occurred to me that we've
been a bit on Goon Pod. I've been a bit unfair on series
80 in this in the sense that it is generally considered to be
the weakest kind of established series of the Goon show, you
know what I mean? And I looked at just before we
started recording, I just checked to see so, so I looked
to see how many times we'd covered a Series 8 show on Goon
Pod in, in the sort of four years that this this has been
running. And the number is.
We've we've so far, not including today, we've covered 4
episodes, Series 8. That's out of 26 in total and my
maths is pretty ropey, but I make that around about 15% of
series 8 has been covered so far.
We'll have to get Professor John Curtis in for that.
Get him to Coba's hair first. I looked at other series that
we've covered. Let's put it this way.
We've covered over half of the episodes from series 5.
OK? Over half the episodes of series
7. Over half episodes from series 9
and half of the episodes from series 10.
There is only 6 episodes in series 10 and we've covered
three of them but and around about 40% of the episodes from
from series 6. So series 8 has been not well
represented on Goon Pod and the Vintage Goon series as well
that's been that's been overlooked as well.
We are going to rectify that. But we've so far we've only
covered 2 episodes out of 14 from the Vintage Goons series.
So yeah, what I've, what I wanted to do was to both Series
8 and Vintage Coons. I, I wanted to try and focus a
bit more on, on those a little bit.
And hence I came to you and said which of the I think there was
what, 3 or 4 episodes of Series 8I?
And I had no clue. I had no clue and I just pick
one at random and I'm very happy I did because I've been very
agreeably surprised. I will say this, at the
beginning of our discussion, it didn't chime immediately.
And perhaps maybe an issue in this series.
The more you listen, the more you think about it, the better
it becomes. But it's not meant to be that is
it? It's disposable entertainment.
Yeah, I've called it, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to
call it this. Series 8 has quite a bit of
landfill episodes which are pretty a lot of them are fairly
indistinguishable from from others, unlike episodes from
series 567, for example. Even series 9, there's there's
there's a lot of episodes which are instantly recognizable.
The very that they have a distinct singularity about them.
You you know that, you know, Tales of Montmartre is a
completely distinct show from Tales of Old Dartmoor, for
example, whereas I don't know the Great British Revolution and
let's see the Junk Affair, the Burning Embassy.
You might struggle to provide a a distinct plot synopsis of any
of those shows. And you and you might think that
gags and sequences from one show actually turn up in a different
show. So yeah, there's a lot of series
8 was a bit, I mean it was a bit unfocused.
It had about 3 or 4 different producers attached to it at any
one time. We are going to talk about one
of those producers today, by the way, a little bit later on.
But but no, this is a this is a the policy what I've always
been, I've always been fond of Spike had a had a bit of a
thing. A number of going shows hinge
around insurance policies. I don't know if you've noticed
this. Yes.
And building societies, financial institutions actually
wonder why, but we're going. To we're going to talk about the
show in a bit. I just wanted to talk about a
bit of stuff around it. So it's the 9th episode of
Series 8, originally broadcast 25th of November 1957.
And interestingly, and I never picked this up before, I used
to, you know, I listened to it back in the day when I was first
got into the goons. I used to listen to it again and
again and again as I did all the good shows, really.
I never picked up on the fact that if you listen to the end
credits, Larry Stevens has given sole script writing credit.
I'm, I spotted that as well. And I I scrambled to the genome
project, but it's Spike and Larry in the Radio Times.
Yeah, but. It's it intrigues me that and
and so I'm not quite sure the actual script credits Spike and
Larry, but it's weird that he gets sole credit on the actual
announcement at the end. So I was thinking about this.
I'm glad you've raised it. I was thinking about this
listening to it. It's got a consistency and a
strong narrative. It's got a beginning, a middle,
and an end. It's got a format where
characters come back unusually sometimes there are some goon
shows when everyone does their turn and it's in a certain order
and there's an explosion at the end and off we go.
But in this one, the grip, grip type, Theina Moriarty are there
sort of at the beginning and they're there at at the end in
recorded form. But there were a number of
things in it, and I thought this sort of sounds like Spike
Milligan, but it isn't quite. And the audio gag, there's some
very good audio gags in this, but they just don't have that
flourish of incongruousness. Like we all know there's going
to be an explosion and a car crash and something like that.
But what makes some of those sound gags so good is the
inclusion of a piece of music, like in the last tram episode of
the Phone going off the Harry Lime Tude.
It's something you don't expect. You go, oh, that's really
something. So it has this.
It's almost in recording terms when you use a limiter.
This is an episode that is very neat and tidy in many
responsible neat and tidy than many other goon shows.
I'd even argue that the music, particularly Ellington, is
fantastic and it's sort of and the music lands where you want
it to land in in in serving the narrative.
But there's whatever the secret sauce Bike Milligan had, if it's
there, it's in in reduced form or perhaps just in odd moments
because it just imagining how you would spike the performer
would deal with a script that didn't have his fingerprints all
over it. That will be another interesting
thing as well, which we we probably will never know because
people probably weren't watching for that at that time.
They just. Well, this you know for certain
that there's certain series 5 shows that Eric Sykes chiefly
wrote and so you can kind. In fact, I think the last tram
was one of them. You're correct.
Although Larry did, producer Peter Eaton said that Larry
provided more structure to the shows, which was what they
needed. And there is, like you say,
there is a beginning, middle and an end.
There's a what I would call a bit of a, will this do end into
this? But we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll
come to that. I just wanted to to before we
talk about the show, I wanted to talk about what the goons were
doing around this time and also what was happening in terms of
the cultural landscape. Interestingly, the week that the
show is broadcast on the cover of the Radio Times.
Who do you think is on the cover of the Radio Times this week?
3 gentlemen apparently sitting at a desk looking quite official
and in fact inside the Radio Times there's more photographs.
There is it's yet there's only a three paragraph little piece
about them which I found in Congress as well.
If you're going to be on the front cover, why isn't there a
big double? Page spread, Absolutely.
And also, why is it this week? Because it's the 9th episode.
It's not the first episode of a new series.
It's very odd but it is the goons and the the the subtitle
is a giggle of goons and you're right, there is a little puff
piece. Not even it's 2 paragraphs.
Oh, so sorry, you're absolutely correct there and it's not.
Very good either. No, it says.
It says Goon Law. We went deep into the heart of
Goonland the other day to tell the three main characters that
they were in danger of appearing on the cover of this week's
issue. Then we must remain anonymous,
said one, who was bearded. Let me sparkle in it.
But whose request we hereby honor.
And if your reader can identify us, we may make an award of a
leather Guinea. Having made contact with the
goons, however, we found it difficult to get them out of our
hair or keep them out of our pages.
But we are assured by our psychiatrist, whom we have
inevitably had to consult, that there is no need for alarm.
It's all in the mind, he says, with a fetish laugh.
All in the mind and that's it. And that, that last bit, it's
all in the mind. We're going to come back to that
as well. There's all these, there's all
these connective, connective tissue.
We're going to come back to that line.
But it is, it is odd that they should appear on the flight, you
say, on the front cover of the nation's leading broadcast
magazine. And that's it.
That's all they get. I mean, why on earth haven't
they got the Silver Chords choir from Silver Chords from BBC
Wales produced by My Jones? Why haven't?
Why aren't they on the front cover?
That's that's what I want to know.
Can you imagine Silver Chords on a Sunday morning on the light?
Hope someone hope someone got fired for that oversight.
Yes. Very, very strange.
But we're still in the 2 channel television world and three
channel radio world, aren't we? So yes, but you had the Royal
Variety Performance that week, but perhaps they weren't allowed
to reveal who was in it ahead of time.
But they had Yeah, later in the which included Harry Secam.
Robin, Robin, Robin. How did he do it on command by?
Coming OK, so on the right, let's let's look at what was
happening. So on the day of on the day the
show was broadcast, I looked at what was happening in the the
wider world and as I often say, not a lot, not a lot of interest
anyway that that interested me. The only thing I I noticed was
that President Eisenhower had a stroke.
And so temporarily Richard Nixon was in charge of the country on
television. Just to give you a, a flavour
of, as I say that the cultural landscape on on the the the the
day the show goes out, the 25th of November 1957, I looked at
what was going out on both BBC and ITV on television and on
BBCTV Hancock's half hour, the episode called The Elocution
Lesson, which I believe no longer exists.
But that was interesting in the sense that it featured a special
guest appearance by the actor Jack.
Hawkins the cruel scene. Sure you're aware of Jack Jack
Hawkins? Yes, he he, he lost his voice
box, didn't he had cancer. And yes, towards the end of his
career there was some fairly difficult performances, but he
was often that the officer. Wasn't he in war films?
He was in Zulu and things like that.
He was in the my one of my favorite films of all time, The
League of Gentlemen. Yeah, yeah, he, he did.
He lost his voice box or he lost his voice pretty.
He was in Theatre of Blood. I think that was possibly his
last, his last film. And but he towards the end of
his career, his voice was being dubbed by the actor, wonderful
actor Charles Grey. You know Charles Grey.
Yes, who? Rocky Horror Picture Show.
He played the narrator and he also was in that wonderful
Englishman abroad as an actor in the company that went to Russia.
To oh, the guy changes. Yeah, he was sort of Coral Brown
sort of offsider in there, but he he played a lot of.
He could do comedy. He could also do a bit of of
suave evil as well. Charles Bryan, Oh yeah, he was
in one of the Bond films. I'm not a big was it?
Was it You only lived twice? I think he was in maybe and and
he was Mycroft in the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series.
So yeah, very, very distinctive guy.
Anyway, also on BBCTV this night, This is Your life
honoured the resistance fighter and Brusselman's who was a a a
Belgian resistance fighter I believe on ITVI looked at
associated Rediffusion to see what was on.
And I'll tell you what I was saying this to friends.
What a packed schedule. Just you know it was on.
If you watch it was on. Well, if you watch ITV now,
which I don't, I don't tend to watch terrestrial TV anymore.
It's all, it's all dross really as far as I'm concerned anyway.
But on on the 25th of November 1957, if you were to get in from
work, hard day at work, sit down, you've got 644 gyms in.
Don't know what that is, Jimmy. Hanley, Jimmy Hanley.
Jimmy Hanley, It was an advertorial.
That's right. I've heard that.
Someone told me that recently. Yes, 7:00 Superman.
So that'll be the George Reeves Superman 730 Shadow Squad.
That sounds exciting. 8:00 Criss cross quiz.
I remember that. OK.
It was, what do you call it, Crosses and zeros, 69 boxes,
Noughts and crosses, noughts. And thank you very much.
We don't play much in this country.
Yeah, noughts and crosses and quiz questions.
And I have a feeling that when I saw it as a four or five or six
year old, there was Shay something.
He was a Canadian. In the early days of commercial
television, anyone with a North American accent seemed to get on
the air because they were seen as being very Hollywood.
But I like crisscross quiz. OK, 830 on this this evening,
Joan and Leslie, which was just like a sort of comedy show, sort
of a sort of a sitcom. 9 O clock, the murder law, 10:30,
what the papers say. Then there's news and wherever.
Then, oh, you've got Max Wall in that's life.
Not sure what that is. And then Arthur Franz in Devil's
other name. Good.
Grief and And the Evening rounds out with 1130 Epilogue, and I'll
just say what a packed schedule. If people don't know, the
British Newspaper Archive have just put TV Times into the
digital archive. And if you want to lose yourself
for a week, just go in. It's fantastic social history.
Yes. And what were the goons doing
around this time, end of November 1957?
You mentioned the Royal Variety Show already.
Yeah, Harry, Harry was. He gave a a proper proper
singing performance. This Vesti la Juba he sang.
Is that is that? Is that right?
From Paiach, from Paiachi, and I have the translation of the
lyric in front of me. Put on your costume and powder
your face. The people are paying and they
want to laugh here. And if Harlequin steals away
your Columbine laugh, clown and all will applaud.
Turn your distress and tears into jokes, your pain and sobs
into a smirk. So that was.
And he also sang with the Morriston Male Voice choir and
was in a sketch with Joan Regan. Who's Joan Regan?
She, I think she was a singer, I think.
But there's a very interesting article praising Harry's
performance in the Royal Command performance and slagging off the
Scottish bits. And it comes from the Scottish
column of the stage newspaper. Because I think they thought
they were being a little bit too stereotypical as Harry strode on
and he would have been at the height of his vocal powers or
getting very close to it. Oh, yeah.
So who else was on that bill? It was.
It was also. Well, I should have flocked.
No, I've got, I've got it here in front of me.
You'll never guess who presented the radio broadcast of it.
Oh. Was it Greenslade?
Brian Johnston. Yeah.
All right. So working from the top, we've
got Arthur ASCII, Winifred Atwell, Max Bygraves, Count
Basie, Alma Kogan, Tommy, Tommy Cooper, Jerry Desmond, Bud
Flanagan, Gracie Fields, Mr. Eddie Gray, Judy Garland, Dickie
Henderson, Ronnie Hilton. It goes on and on and on.
And not Alfred Marks, right? What's for effect there?
And Nori Paramore's banjo band, Tommy Steele, Frankie Vaughn,
Dickie Valentine, The Tiller Girls, Of course, Vera Lynn and
Larry O Lancer. And Jimmy Logan.
Jimmy Logan was the one that's and it was on because it wasn't
on television yet. It was broadcast a BBC recording
on the Light program on the Sunday of the recording of the
policy at 2:30 in the afternoon. Right.
You mentioned Nori Paramore, his arch nemesis George Martin.
Around late November 1957, George Martin and Peter Sellers
were beginning to discuss the possibility of recording an LP.
So this was the the genesis, if you like, of what was to become
the best of Sellers, which came out in 58.
I think around about a week or so after the policy was
broadcast, the wonderful film which I referred to earlier, The
Naked Truth, was released in cinemas.
But you've missed something out, haven't you?
You've missed something out. Well, I was born in mid August
1958. The repeat broadcast of this was
on the 28th of November 1957. I just say for people.
Do the math. And I was three weeks overdue or
so. So who knows?
Who knows? Moving on.
So the policy, we'll, we'll talk about the show in general, but
I'll just give a more detailed overview of, of what happens in
the show, if that's all right with you, Andy.
We can just. We can just run through it.
So Grip Pipe and Moriarty plan to escape dire poverty in the
Slagli on Ooze rubbish dump by taking out a £10,000 life
insurance policy on Neddy Segan. They tell him he can collect the
money the moment he's deceased, and they give him a book, 100
Easy Ways to Get Deceased. He tries hanging himself from
the rafters, but his weight pulls them down.
His next attempt is to sleep in the open on Salisbury Plain
during a snowstorm, standing asleep in his long flannel
nightshirt. He's discovered by Boy Scouts
Echols and Blue Bottle, who mistake him for a short fat
tent. When they find Seigun in the
tent, they March into Major Blood Knock.
Seigun finds out what deceased means and tells Blood Knock
about the villains plans to collect on the insurance.
Blood Knock takes out a life insurance policy on Neddy and
tries to poison him with a toxic cocktail, but Seagoon scalpers.
He rents a room from Minnie and Henry at the Albert Memorial.
In his room he receives A gramophone record of Grit Piper
Moriarty trying to shoot him. Fleeing the room just in time,
he finds Blood Knock and his regiment come to kill him.
Seagoon has left, trapped between the British Army and a
loaded record. So there, there we are.
Would you listen to that? I mean, I'm no.
Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I suppose so, yeah.
Trapped Seagoon, trapped between the British Forces Broadcasting
Service and the Light programme. But yeah, that's a fair enough
description. And it's, it's a, it's a very
slight conceit, isn't it? But, and perhaps that speaks to
what you were saying earlier, but it is, it is puffed out by
quite a lot of audio 1/3 musical performance in the middle of it
by Peter Sellers. And it sounds like to me,
perhaps they were experimenting with the kind of songs that the
kids might want to buy if they happen to get onto a 12 inch
long playing record. Perhaps, who knows.
And there are, it's quite a slow show, actually, the IT gets
manic at the end, but it's quite almost plodding at times.
And and very there's a lot of exposition which some of it in
the hands of Will and Mike Cobblers and also Spriggs
Adolphus or Jim or whoever. Jim.
Yeah, Jim has a couple of pages of script, which is he doesn't
come on, say a funny line and disappear.
He actually is part of the exposition and it and very funny
too. Oh yeah, he heads up the Spawn
insurance company. As you would.
You have to hang the usual medical examination.
Come along there. Come in.
Come in, Jim.
Now strip to the waist, please. Now, then, pass me that hammer.
Thank you. Now.
Yes. Yes.
His back seems fine. Ribs all right, and stomach.
OK. Open your open your mouth wider
there. Swallow that.
What was it? Cigarette dust.
I didn't want to drop it on the carpet.
Well, Mr. C June, you seem to be 100% fat.
Here is your policy. Policy.
You mentioned Sellers has a, has a song, has a number in the
guise of Blood Knock and this was interesting.
There's in series 8, there was a couple of occasions where
Bludnock gets to sing a song. So in the Great British
Revolution, there's a there's an opportunity for Bludnock to
sing. I believe it's called My Bombay
BB. OK.
Oh dear. I'm sure that there's another
instance where he gets to sing a song in series 8.
I wasn't able to find which one in my head.
There is one, but I just can't bring it to mind.
But in this episode, he he gets to sing the Indigestion Waltz.
I mean, it's no great shakes, is it?
Let's face it, it's it's pretty basic.
And that's my cat crying outside the door.
I don't know if you can hear that.
I can hear nothing. I can hear nothing because our
our cats have been put in the garage.
They're in jankers. Well, a cynical person like
myself wondered whether there was some half idea that maybe it
could be released as AAB side to another Goon single or something
like that, because they were releasing quite a number of
singles around this time. Russian Love Song had come out
very recently. In fact, I think it was earlier
this month in November. And I just wonder whether that
was the the reason that they decided to do this.
I'm not sure. I What are your thoughts?
I I tend to concur with you. It's also Peter Sellers doing an
early Dan Leno. Perhaps.
He loved his Music Hall, didn't he?
He did, but the Blood Knuckles says send only two and six boots
for a copy of this record, which of course he does on the EP
which has a 5 or 6 year old. I played to death and actually
broke. So blood knocks rock'n'roll rock
and. Roll and yeah, it's used quite
well when Blood Knock is phoning to take out his own life
insurance on Nitty Seager and that's pretty well done.
But it it sort of speaks to the the fill element of it.
It was there was a lot of business to fill out the half
hour and one of the things I have read about some of the
Larry Stevens shows it alternate versions in that he produced far
too much material. For 1/2.
Hour and I think Max got cut on on one occasion.
But I tell you one thing, it struck me often the band really
have fun with some of these little bits and pieces.
They didn't really sort of throw themselves into pastiche of of
Music Hall there. It was sort of done as a very
tepid party piece. Perfunctory.
Thank you. That still serves as as a list
of favorite, though. I believe the the indigestion
waltz. Yeah, it gets it gets talked
about. Blood knock is mistaken.
Seagram I think for Myrtle Prong.
Yes. An old flame.
I never forget a night shirt part of a number of extremely
naughty. If you know, you know, and if
you don't, you don't. But once you've heard one, you
can't stop hearing the filth that runs through this and the
sexual illusion that runs through this.
And I love. It what do you do?
You want to take me by the hand and lead me through some of the
films. Pretty pretty early on.
Attract those flies, Moriarty. I can't think what attracts
them. I think that's an innuendo.
You know, We all know what attracts flies.
Stop doing that disgusting thing.
RIP type thing, says to Moriarty.
Implants me. You can tell I've gone through
this with a fine tooth comb. With lips tightly pursed.
Exactly. I will be writing a stiffly
worded missive to the editor of the Radio Time.
I'm getting there. We've also got, oh, this is it,
Sprig says to about Neddy. We have to have the usual
medical examination and there's a bit of giggling off Mike
there. And I think that's there's a lot
of forces humour in this too. And of course Larry Stevens,
commando and all the rest of it. So and that sort of sets it up
and then keep on going. When Neddy is in his nightshirt
from the middle of Salisbury plane to the two boy soldiers
stumble over him. And what is And there's this
thing about Blue bulls wearing a kilt that's already suggested.
Han can come to a young lad wearing a kilt.
What kind? Of harm.
Then, if you have children listening listeners, please
place them to one side, Greenslade says.
They approach the spot where Sea Goon is fast asleep, standing
rigidly to attention in his long white night shirt.
Next line, it's a short, fat tent.
I'm now going to pause for dramatic effect.
And then blue bottleneckles get into the tent, and we've already
alluded to this. They feel something lovely and
warm, but it's not either of them.
And the one joke they don't do is when he strikes a match.
When blue Ball strikes a match, they don't do the old Horry gag
of striking a match against a hairy leg or something like
that. That's true.
Then we have a feather duster gag.
Oh, hairy, hairy bum. Yeah, a feather duster gag about
little kilted boy, and then we're running up to page 14 here
and blood knocks. I never forget a nightshirt.
And there's a lot of whoa, you know, actually, Eccles says.
You naughty man to blood knock. And of course we know blood
knockers had things excised from scripts which have alluded to
certain activities. Men having sex with men, as they
say. And I think there's no more
filth because we actually get to some jokes after that.
But it's it's, it's there and I didn't mind it at all.
And but also to come back to our state, was it Larry, was it
Spike? Was it a mixture?
Spike did those kind of gags, but not on such a consistent,
concerted way I don't think. Off the top of my head anyway.
Maybe, maybe not, maybe not. There's a lot of filth and
there's a quite a bit of giggling and oh, there's a
that's the other thing. Walgreenslade is also involved
when he says the night shirt line, which I of course cannot
find as I'm I'm constantly ramping to already, he says,
standing rigidly to attention in his long white nightshirt.
He's quite deliberate with that and I think he is.
That's part of the gag for us filthy minded people I think.
Well, either that. Either that or that's like take
10. Yeah.
Now just on that point, there's at least three that I picked up,
three what what sound like clear edit points and I looked at the
original script to see. So there's a, there's a bit
right near the beginning when Sea Goon first meets Thin and
Moriarty, who are by now firmly in the grip of moral and
physical degradation and they and they are subsisting on the
slag Leon who's rubbish dump. And there's a bit near the
beginning when when they meet Sea Goon and Thin talks about a
£10,000 life insurance policy. That's there's a clear edit,
right? Like it's, it's obviously the
best job that Roy Spear, the producer could do at the time
to, to, to, to, to do that. But I looked at the script to
see if there was a like a big chunk of dialogue which had been
cut out, but there wasn't. So I think there there's
obviously been something of either a massive flub or some ad
Lib or whatever it may be and they've just cut that out.
As a tribute to your great mouth type, Singing Account would like
to give you, free of charge, a valuable £10,000 life insurance
policy. When we first meet Blood Knock
we have the Blood Knock theme and and Blood Knocks doing his
usual sort of moaning sounds. Yes.
And there's a clear edit there as well, so again you wonder if
it was, but there was nothing in the script to indicate anything
near the knuckle or whatever that had to be removed.
Singes is mentioned but never heard.
From never heard from. No, that's right.
And is the third. Is that the third?
Yeah, there's another one as well.
What was the other one? I can I can help you while you
look because Plugey has this been dust on Goon Point over its
hundreds of episodes. Plugey mates.
Well, Plugey's the nickname for Max, obviously.
It also is a slang word for a piece of male genitalia, says
the Urban Dictionary really says it.
And you know, I went through with a, as I say, a fine tooth
comb, found all the filth and then googled the hell out of it
to try because there's some other snap stuff in Chickadee
Snitch or something like the script which is actually used
also in Hancock in the reunion. I can't find what that means.
But anyway, well. Greenslade says Chickadee
snitch. At one point in a good show.
Oh yeah. But anyway, no.
I looked it up and apparently it's a a a fat or chubby
appendage in a blue G. Do we?
Do we know what the where, what the derivation is of that?
Whether? I I didn't write it down, it
sounds it could be Dutch, and if it is Dutch of course that that
chimes with Max. That would make sense.
He wasn't an actor, but he was Dutch.
He's well, absolutely. And he was in the resistance
getting back to the lady from Belgium that was the subject of
This is Your Life. So it's all these connections.
I love these things. Yeah.
By the way, the beginning of this show you won't have heard
this because the the you heard the cut down version right at
the beginning of the show. You've got Harry mocking Wallace
because Wallace is is putting on the old posh chat.
Mr. Siegun, this is my normal voice.
Don't give me that. Well, I've heard you.
I've heard you. Went on.
Doris, shut you around. I'll fetch your man with a
please for the old shirt. I've seen you, Walt.
Hello, Walt in his shirt sleeve. I've seen him in his shirt
sleeve. Now tonight to be our I've seen
you on the Friday night Walt staggering on with all your wage
package spend silence or John Snaggle here of this he knows.
He knows. Who do you think was holding you
up, Mr. Here we are following that one.
He'd just been given the flick, I think, from television news
reading at this point, which I find incongruous.
Wallace Grace, I mean, the fact that they put him on the news on
television and he was doing the Goon show.
But of course, this was the era of the personality announcer.
Ronald Fletcher was making a similar reputation for himself,
particularly with Bernard Braden and we've talked in the past
about Douglas Smith. But they were, and of course
they are ex service people or in Wallace's case he was in the
merchant Marine I think. So they, their life experience,
they're all in the same boat. And I'm guessing that some of
the the BBC off air types, the production staff and, and the
various producers, they had a common life experience and
language which may have have helped it a bit.
But yeah, I think we've come to the conclusion that whatever
Pluji means, there's quite a bit of lewd, lewd, suggestive.
The entendres are double if not triple.
Well, there's also You've forgotten Minnie and Henry.
Oh my God. Where Minnie Minnie's been at
Been at the Centrepod wine. You know, Peel football, but.
Stop. Stop that Jane Mansfield type
walking, Yes. Yeah, it's all good.
But in fact, in the script, the original script, Henry who's
shouting at Minnie, says I haven't, I haven't jotted it
down just from memory, from reading this, looking at the
script. In the script, he says You're
driving me sex mad. Woah, 1957 in the home service?
That's a bit. I'll have to go back and check
that. I'm sure that's what he said
then. But obviously in the in the
actual show, he just says you're driving me mad.
And I've just remembered one another one as well, which is
Flower Dew makes an appearance one line and it's about the
Albert Memorial. Let us just say in that era
Kensington Gardens where the Albert Memorial stands was a
well known place where same sex attracted men billied.
And dallied. Thank you.
Do you know what I spent yesterday afternoon?
Watch out, your Internet history is going to catch up.
With you. So the bit that we're talking
about here, Seagoon arrives somewhere and he says, what is
this thing, thing of grace and fragile beauty?
And then flower juice says it's the Albert Memorial.
And it gets a huge laugh, huge response.
And I'm thinking, and I'm thinking, what?
OK, what? And so I was thinking, OK,
there's obviously something in the news about the Albert
Memorial being an eyesore or something, you know, And that's
why what Seagoon has said is ironic and that's why it gets a
laugh. That's what I was thinking.
And I was trying to, I was trying to look at, look at
contemporary newspaper reports for someone slagging off the
look of the Albert Memorial or something, you know what I mean.
But you've you've you've. Yeah, I think I'm right because
it's I, I detect it's a big laugh and the band are laughing
and musicians know things like that.
It was as could be said, it was notorious, that area of London
notorious. That sort of place that Wilfred
Bramble from Steptoe would have been frequenting.
And Charles Hawtry and and all manner of because this was pre
67 and a decriminalization and all the rest of it.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah.
So flour juice in it and Cyril's in it as well.
He is, well, Cyril or Loo, I'm not quite sure.
Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it, I've seen it.
Yeah, I think it is Cyril. Let's say it's Cyril and the
whole, the whole, the whole plot hinges on the fact, the rather
improbable fact that Ned Sea Goon, who's a grown adult, does
not understand what the word deceased means.
Well, you know what? Who are we to pass judgement on
that? It is flimsy, it is thin, but
it's construction is actually quite solid in it.
You can take it apart and, and it's, it's plotted.
And perhaps that's the reason it it just in that plotting,
Perhaps there's, it lacks what other goon cheese goon shows
have, which is sometimes there are a minute or three where it
it's a bit lots of blowing of raspberries and mentions of
Brandy and stuff. And then you get 64 seconds of
absolute genius. There is no genius in this show.
It's it's good enough, it's funny enough, but it doesn't
have those moments which are truly memorable.
You're right, you're right. Even the cocktail, which is a
great gag, Blood Knock is trying to poison Neddy and he mixes a
cocktail of of all kinds of terrible poisons.
Neddy has disappeared and the Echols and Blue Bottle come
back. And it's not Blue Bottle who we
think is going to be dead, but Echols who drinks it.
And then there's a this parade of sound effects.
And there's a great tagline, but the sound effects aren't quite
crazy enough. No, the sound effects were were
I'll chosen. I would say most of them anyway.
And so I think you've touched on it when you talk to Julie
Warren, who wrote the book about Larry Stevens and and others
have mentioned it, that Stevens could perhaps he could channel
Spike the best, but it was always going to be somewhat of a
carbon copy. Whereas the Sykes scripts in
particular really stand out. They have peaks and troughs.
This one doesn't have peaks and troughs.
It just has. It's almost a a straight line of
regular chuckles and laughs, but there's no boffo moment.
You're right. And and and and and at the end,
it's all in the mind, you know, delivered by Wallace Greenslade.
Delivers that line really well. He's got great comic sense,
Wallace Greenslade. But even with that, the last
drop of comedic potential is wrung out of it.
And yeah. Yeah, overall you're absolutely
right. And I haven't thought about this
till you vocalize it or put it into words, but overall it's an
enjoyable show. But there is, you're right,
there's no stand out zingers or sequences.
It's a fact. Similarly, almost of a of a of a
good Spike Milligan script, but not quite hitting the mark,
hitting the heights. Small sitcomy, perhaps because
sitcoms tend to be sitcoms have really moments of brilliance,
but they are, they are required to deliver laughs at a fairly
regular rapidity, except in the case of Raise a Laugh.
But this one, those are there. Yeah.
There's something it's not, not so much, not quite right, not
quite there. There's something missing.
It's as if you've got own brand cola rather than Coca-Cola in in
a in a drink or something like that.
Yeah, yeah, it's. Hard to put my finger on it.
And of course, in the background here, you've got the gathering
clouds. Larry Stevens will be dead
within what just over a year. Spike was having bad times.
There were all these producers. It's again, one of the great
tensions is imagining these three men, the three main
characters, Milligan, Sellers and and seek him.
They're almost at a junction and which line are they going to
take? And they come back together in a
way that school almost like a reunion and it's very enjoyable.
But their career paths, particularly Sellers and seek
them, are diverging, diverting tremendously from this program
that's given them the platform. Hey Decker, have you ever tasted
any her Carl relic Decker? No.
Have you? No.
Well, go on then. Don't drink.
Drink this. Don't drink.
Drink that. Then drink.
That I'm frightened. You drink it, then you can tell
me what it is like. Not.
Bad. Not bad at all.
Now this show when played today on the radio, I'm sure it
doesn't, but you'd think that possibly, you know, it might
come with a trigger warning at the beginning, contains themes
of suicide or at least attempted suicide.
Well, there's a book, there's a book how to get deceased.
And so that Neddy's got a couple of tries, a couple of times to
kill himself basically and, and wittingly the stupid idiot.
But there is a bit in the script, the original script that
was not recorded. And I know it wasn't recorded
rather than recorded and cut out because so we get the bit where
after Max's number, we get the introduction of William, who is
Ned's manservant. And I mean, there's a, there's a
typical straightforward gag. There is my jacket on straight.
Yes, Sir. And I must say, a straight
jacket suits you, you know, which is not necessarily.
I don't think that's that's a Spike joke.
I think that's more a straightforward gag writer joke,
You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely.
And and we've got Neddy asking William to assist him to get
deceased. And in the script, the first
method is that Harry's reading from the book.
He says open window and you hear the sound of a window being
opened. Then Harry reads from the book
and says stand on sill and you hear the sound of boots stepping
onto a windowsill and Harry says and jump out and then the the
effects says pause then thudding crash off and then you hear off
Mike William going oh mate. Then next thing door opens and
William approaching the microphone ear.
I hope I don't have to do this regular.
And Harry says, you fool, I was supposed to jump, not you.
And William says cool, I might have done myself a injury.
It's a good thing we're in the basement, so.
That's a bad little little routine that actually, but.
No, I know, but they didn't use that one because, and I know
they didn't, it's not the case that they recorded it and cut it
out because in the actual show, as we hear it, Ned talks about
method one and William reads take a nice bit of rope, stand
on a chair, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then Solsbury plane is, is method 2.
So yeah, it's just a little bit of the script that was was
quite, quite good. But they decided for whatever
reason, maybe for length or whatever, they they cut that
out. Now you just mentioned Max, this
bit coming after Max's bit, and I did mention earlier the music
and I just like to draw attention.
You've got the Great American Songbook in Butnut, your
Overcoat from Max Gild, and then Ray, you've got Duke Ellington,
Billy Strayhorn number, which is I think really swings.
You better know it. And one of the glories of the
Goon shows having survived is that this kind of live music
was, was meat and drink, particularly on the light
program in the 1950s. And a lot of those kind of shows
would have just never been recorded or the acetates or
whatever. And I and I have warmed over the
years, having hated the musical interludes when I was a teener.
I have warmed to them as a historic artifact.
And I would like to plead that case and and with Wally Stark,
Angela Morley, fantastic arrangements.
And I think in the Ellington number there's a great sax solo.
But you had the very good musicians who would just go from
show to show to show to show. And the expense of it.
I mean, is there any live music in anything that passes for
comedy on Radio 4 these days? I don't know because I can't
hear it anymore because of BBC sounds being taken away.
But no glorious. And it it would have been a
better show with Ellington in it.
This one, I think, and but balanced by the fact Max wasn't
in it, which always poor old Max, poor old Max.
But I listened to it and went, Oh, it's all right.
And the more I listened to it, the more I enjoyed it.
And then I sort of I was in cruise control.
I wasn't I wasn't finding things out from the performances.
What I was finding out was wait a minute, I've got a notion
about the Albert Memorial. I just double checked that,
which is not, I think how these programs were meant to be
listened to. But there you, I mean, it's,
it's a very nice way to pass 1/2 hour when you're not watching
some really good stuff on ITV 830 on the home service, 9:00 on
the light program. That's in the television era.
Funny times. But I guess they, the BBCI think
still hoped that radio could sort of stem the tide of
television, hence kept on making terrible radio serial drama way
into the way into the 60s when it's time had gone.
But but there we go now have we? Have we got to the bit where
you've told me what I don't expect to be told?
You had a a pinned fact. Oh, I'll come to that in a
minute. Come to that in a.
Minute, You're still just finished.
You're still dangling. Oh yeah, yeah.
Let's let's just round off our our chat about the particular
show, this particular show. OK, there's a couple of little
things I just wanted to mention. I love the bit where Henry Cron
is explaining the the terms of of Ned's stay at the Albert
Memorial. We've all been to one of these
rooms where you can't do anything, including was it
breathing after 11:00. Yeah, fabulous. 02 things about
Ned I do, I did enjoy in series 8, he would often do is he would
address the audience through a speaking trumpet.
Yep. Yep.
That's only where that came from or what.
Who decided that that was a good idea?
But there's just something so dumb about it.
I just, I love it. And also there's a reference,
the second reference ever to Ned, Ned's grandmother owning a
duck farm and Kent. Oh, it's an actual thing, is it?
Yes. And and eggs and every.
Oh, righty ho, no. No, no, he he used.
It's like a non sequitur that Ned throws into the conversation
whenever he's panicking about something.
Didn't he have Ducks disease as well in one of?
Them. Oh yeah, the curse of the sick.
The sick. But him him saying my
grandmother owns a duck farm and Kent was first used, I think of
the third episode of series 8, the burning embassy and then
it's used in this and it's used probably another 5 or 6 times.
I think the end of it is is very rushed and very, as I said, sort
of will this do. I think with the with the with
the gramophone record and and blood not with the firing squad,
which had slight echoes of the end of the rent collectors to
me, but with Blood not just being sort of bloodthirsty and
wanting to wanting to kill everybody.
You know what, you know what, what you were saying earlier, it
could be any interchangeable show.
That finale could just be tacked on to the end of many shows
because it's Cyril comes on, says there's a record for you,
and then you just. Yes.
And it's funny in of itself and the audience seems to quite
enjoy it. But it it has it has something
to do with the life insurance. But there are plenty of episodes
where it could just have been blood not grip type thin and and
Moriarty trying to kill Neddy. So anyone got a spare finale
they can Chuck in? Well, they would usually, and
here we. This is a nice way of bringing
us to the end of our chat about this show.
But it ends, like you said before, with Wallace very sort
of ominously saying, yes, it's all in the mind, you know, now,
which Spike was quoted as saying in that little Radio Times piece
earlier, It's all in the mind now.
Larry came up with the line. It's all in the mind, you know,
That's a Larry line. And it was only ever used in
scripts that he he worked on. And it was used a lot to end
goon shows when there was sort of a dangling ending and they
needed something just to kind of put a full stop on it.
Wallace would say it's all in the mind.
You know, cue music, right? I looked at a copy of Larry's
script and he'd written. And so the end in the actual
typewritten script there. We leave Neddy at present
trapped between the British Army and a loaded record.
And frankly, I don't think much of his chances now.
Larry has added in in Biro to that he's he's added, I don't
think much of his chances of ever getting to the tiddlywinks
match, which is a a nod to the forthcoming tiddlywinks match
that we I'm sure we will cover at some point on this show cus.
Cus cus cus cus cus, Cambridge should never have beaten us.
Any message of consolation from the Palace.
He's a lot of good any my life, every word dressed up like
idiots popping little buttons into a cup and still no signs of
a knighthood. And then it ends in the script
with Bill phoning the Spawn insurance company taking out a
£10,000 life insurance policy on Eddie Segan.
That's how it ends in script. But Larry has written in Biro
after that, yes, it's all in the mind, you know, And it's just an
odd little, it's like a little signature of Larry's, that line.
And as I said earlier, Wallace delivers it brilliantly to try
and get a tie in and potential support from Netflix.
Did you know that the Guinness Company offered the goons
Guinness for training for the Tiddlywinks batch?
No, I didn't. I went to a Tiddlywinks website
and found this out and one of the one of the pages of the ETWA
is winking world right? Right.
Yes. Can't wait for the Spot the Ball
contest. Let's get it, all might have
said. But anyway, yeah, there was a
that that tiddlywinks thing was a big media thing, wasn't it?
It was. Oh, it was.
It was filmed and everything. And there was a goon show about
it, of course. Yeah.
So is there any anything more before we wrap up about about
the show you want to show in I? Think we're this has been an
interesting conversation because I've been various little bulbs
have gone off for me hearing what you've said and then I
built upon it and all the rest of it.
And I feel that we've sort of come to a conclusion.
It's odd when something is pleasurable, but you wouldn't go
out and tell everybody about it. And and in a way, mediocre is
such a difficult world and and adequate is even worse.
Probably. But I guess the show was getting
to the point where they were almost being strong armed.
Weren't they into doing this? Certainly in terms of and the
recordings were also these ridiculous double recordings and
stuff. Like that?
Not this week. There wasn't a vintage games
recorded this week. Well that's good, but I just
wonder I'm I'm glass half full time.
Aren't we fortunate that we're 3 producers and four writers that
something that is still of great quality 68 years later is here
and, and, and so in in our world, in the goon pod world, we
go, Oh yeah, it's fine, it's funny, but it's fine.
But actually go through the schedules of of the home service
and the light program that we can pull anything else that was
comedy and probably most of it wouldn't have been much chop.
So that's right. Thank you for opening my eyes to
the policy and and for me discovering what Pluji means
after all these years. I'm always giving Andy.
So I just want to round off, you mentioned producers.
The, the, the, the fact they had three or four producers, 3
producers. Yeah, something like that.
There was Charles Chilton, there was Tom Ronald, who was a bit of
a disaster, and in this case it was Roy Spear.
And I just wanted to quickly talk about Roy Spear.
I'm not going to go into detail about Roy because who knows,
maybe one day I'll do a show specifically about the Goon Show
producers, but Roy Spear. Famously for Guin Show fans, he
was the man who gave Peter Sellers his first radio gig in
1948. Sellers phoned Roy Spear
pretending to be Kenneth. So Roy Spear.
This is the first Goon Show episode we've covered on Goon
Pod in which Roy Spear was producer.
But I I discovered fascinating little fact about Roy Spear what
fascinated to me. You might think it's Dulles
Ditch water, but did you know that in early 1951 he was on
trial at the Old Bailey? He was a bit of a naughty boy.
What did you know about this? I, I, I knew he was on trial and
there's something about plagiarism or something like
that, but I know nothing more. Well, it wasn't plagiarism,
right? He was charged with corruption
and he pleaded not guilty to 4 counts of corruptly obtaining up
to 80 lbs. And and the the the charge was
that that Roy Spear, being an agent of the BBC, corruptly
obtained for himself, it says he had £20 from Albert Rostron
Parker and inducement or reward for showing favour or forbearing
to his disfavour in relation to his principal affairs.
Basically what it means is that there was this character called
Ross Parker who was a scriptwriter and songwriter and
the, the charge was that Roy Spear had lent on Ross Parker to
pay him some money and Spear, being ABBC producer, would get
his material broadcast on the BBC.
That was the, that was the, the charge.
Goodness. But he was cleared of all
charges. You'll be, you'll be pleased to
know his defence. His legal costs were partly
covered by Denis Norton, Frank Muir, Ted Cavanaugh, wrote Itmar
and the scriptwriter Sid Collin and other colleagues.
So they stumped up quite a lot of money to cover Spears legal
costs. Now the The thing is, I'm not
going to dwell too much on this, but Ross Parker, the
scriptwriter and songwriter, he and Roy Spear had served
together in India during the war and had been very good friends.
In fact, they had appeared on the BBC Home Service in 1940, in
December 1940, in a program called Grand Pantomime.
Babes in the Wood or the cadets who could, right?
They play piano, so it says at the pianos Cadets Roy Spear and
Ross Parker. And interestingly for you, it
was recorded quote somewhere in Wales.
Bangor, BBC Bangor. OK, so these two Roy Spear and
Ross Parker were were best of powers by all accounts.
And it turns out I don't know the background to it and it's
obviously something on Ross Parker.
Ross Parker owed Roy Spear up to 80 lbs because Roy Spear had had
had bailed him out during the war financially.
So I don't, I don't know the background to it.
I don't know. There's obviously some something
gone on here, but I mentioned Shirley Bassey earlier on.
Ross Parker was a fairly successful fact.
He, he was very successful back in the 30s and 40s particularly,
but he was, he was writing songs right up until I think the 60s
and he wrote Shirley Bassey's first single, Burn My Candle.
My good night the the the warp and weave of this episode is
extraordinary. Oh, but there's more.
Oh goodness, there's more. He's probably most if he's
remembered at all, which he's not Ross Parker, but if he's
remembered at all he Co wrote two very important songs, one of
them being We'll Meet Again. Right.
You mentioned Vera Lynn. Yeah, yeah.
But he also Co wrote they'll always be in England.
Right, All right. And I just all I want to say is
that Roy Spears, so he produced the policy 2 episodes earlier,
the episode the Red Fort that Roy Spear also produced.
Listen, if that's the right sound effect, it sounds like
hostile natives. Don't worry Sir, I'll go
outside. And sue them
and musical swine. And I've had to fade 2 goodies
of time to hear that the played in my life.
I wonder if Roy Spear was rather rueful when he heard that, or
philosophical. Philosophical possibly because
it ended his career, but I am with Roy Spear being supported
in a very practical sense. Mira Norden take Kavanaugh C
Collin. That's an that might would make
you feel a lot more confident going into the court case,
wouldn't that in terms? Of yeah.
The the jeopardy there. But of course, everybody had
lies beyond doing this show, whether they were Bobby Jay on
sound effects or whether it was Roy Spear in the booth or
Wallace Greenslade. And his mysterious life outside
of the Goon show. But so yet to get this universe
never fails to give. That's right.
That so just a little, a little. I want to tag that on to our
discussion because I thought it was an interesting what if you
know what if he'd been found guilty?
Royce Bier, Oh. Goodness, Alistair Scott Johnson
would have produced the Goon shows.
That's a very in gag really. But anyway don't explain it.
He did the Navy luck he did because they always used to do a
spiel in recordings before the thing started and they always
appeared as if they're ex servicemen.
These producers, they were of a certain type.
Yes, yes, right. OK.
Well, Andy, it's been enjoyable beyond words.
If you want to give another plug to and I'm not going to try and
announce it, pronounce it very. Kind of you.
Thank you very much. I'm doing an episode around
Christmas on Harry Secam and probably the Goon Show and how
they do with Wales and it's a Welsh language podcast.
So any of you skin shadow can like if you speak Welsh or you
know someone who speaks Welsh muttering it under their breath.
You can contact me through Chagling Company, RHAGLEN, New
Word Cymru, or my Twitter handle which is O Bell Oz OZ.
Thank you. Thank you, Andy.
And it is always a pleasure, never a chore having you on.
And we will get you back maybe next year to talk about another
Goon show, maybe another one you've not heard before.
I look. Forward to that and I they're
always great, but there's been some absolute belters recently,
so more power to your editing system.
Thank you very much and thank you all for listening.
I will be back next week with I think another show.
Well, there will be another show.
I can't think which one it will be now, but I'm sure it will be
as, as Andy said, it will be a bouter.
Keep rating and reviewing and all that sort of jazz until we
speak again. Take care.
Bye. Bye dance the whole night
through the indigestion waltz with you.
We gave a kick up with each naughty hiccup, and up in the
air we flew. You wore a pale pink rose and I
wore a big Red Nose. With every sharp turn I got such
heartburn. The indigestion walls, dear,
with you. With you.
The indigestion walls with you. Send only two and six months for
a copy of this record.