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Well, that's what I move on to 
was Parkour, which is easily the

2
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funniest novel I think I've ever
read, which you wrote. 

3
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It's about Ireland 7 Island, but
you you'd never been to Ireland 

4
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when you wrote. 
No. 

5
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I used to listen to my father. 
Who was that Irish Christ, he 

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was a Irish. 
He's so ice. 

7
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He's give me example of what 
he's like. 

8
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Yeah, 3:00 in the morning he 
wakes me up, says wake up. 

9
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Yeah, wake up. 
So, So what is it then? 

10
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He said I've never shot a tiger.
I said why are you telling me? 

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And he said I've got to tell 
somebody. 

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Hello and welcome to Goonpod 
doing for comedy podcasts what 

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the Edsel did for the US 
automobile industry and I I I 

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think that may be a bit too 
modern a reference for some of 

15
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my list this live. 
All right, I'll do. 

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It's extremely up to date. 
Where my manners? 

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My guest. 
My My super special guest. 

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Comedy writer, broadcaster, chat
show, host, performer, Warm Up 

19
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Man Podcast now as well. 
Have I missed anything out? 

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Anyway, it's Clive Anderson. 
Hello, Clive. 

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Hello, Hello, Tyler. 
Thank you for having me. 

22
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,800
No, thank you. 
Did I miss anything there? 

23
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Was there anything a novelist? 
Have you written a novel or? 

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I I haven't written a novel, you
know, Obviously there's a novel 

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in everybody, apparently, but 
mine says waged within me, 

26
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hasn't come out yet, but you 
never know. 

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Well, for anyone who's not 
listening to this podcast before

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it, it started off being a 
podcast very much anchored in 

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the world of of the Gooniverse 
or the goons if you like 

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Milligan Sellers seeking even 
banting. 

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And it's it's gradually 
broadened out over the couple of

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years to talk about comedy in 
general but but always with a 

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sort of a starting point being 
the goons. 

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OK, now Clive, I know you 
enjoyed listening to the radio 

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when you're a child, especially 
comedy. 

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Was The Goon Show part of your? 
Upbringing, I would say the Good

37
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Show was a little bit early for 
me. 

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I mean I've certainly listened 
to it, you know, since and in 

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repeats and reruns and Radio 4 
Extra and things like that. 

40
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And I I was certainly in, you 
know, very well aware of the 

41
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Good Show early on. 
But it was kind of that my sort 

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of era I suppose would have been
like Monty Python on on the 

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television or the radio by then 
was something like I have sorry,

44
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I haven't a clue. 
Oh, I'm sorry, I'll say that 

45
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again. 
Sorry, which is the. 

46
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I'm sorry, I'll read that again,
which was the the big comedy 

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show for for my sort of 
generation. 

48
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So I came across the Goons 
themselves, Spike Milligan, 

49
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Harry Seekum and so forth a bit 
later because by the time I was 

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doing interviewing people on 
television, we we had a lot of 

51
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comedians on. 
I did eventually get to 

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interview Spike Milligan but he 
was quite senior by then. 

53
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Yeah. 
And towards the end of his life 

54
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and but he was he was a good 
challenging interviewee. 

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I, you know most interviews I 
can think back. 

56
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I can remember you know a few 
salient points from it. 

57
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The the main thing I remember 
from interviewing him was he 

58
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sort of told a joke and it sort 
of occurred to him and he sort 

59
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of laugh played on his lips and 
he said, oh I said it out loud. 

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And it was though he just 
thought of it. 

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I can't remember what the joke 
was, but I know that it was a 

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joke I'd seen him do on previous
yes, but he. 

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But he did it. 
He presented it as though it had

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just occurred to him, which was 
I I put down to elegant, stylish

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professionalism rather than just
the fact that he was. 

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He hadn't really forgotten that 
he said it before, but I I I'd 

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already gotten on. 
He was a sort of hero because if

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you're so innovative in comedy 
and I liked, he wrote, I think 

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it's the only novel he wrote, 
you'll obviously know because 

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you were this podcast built 
around the goons. 

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He wrote Pakoon, a novel where I
think he concentrated quite a 

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lot of his, his sort of wartime 
memories, you know, he did those

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all those various bits of 
memoirs where he had lots of 

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good material, but in that 
novel, I think he concentrated 

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down really well. 
So I was a big fan of that novel

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and every now and then Trump 
somebody tries to film it or to 

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read it or something. 
It never quite works. 

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It just works on the page as a 
written novel. 

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So yeah, that's that's my small 
small claim to have done 

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anything to do anything to do 
with Spike Milligan. 

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Well, the the, the. 
The. 

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Interview that you because I 
rewatched it for the purposes of

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this. 
Was it? 

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I mean, I I don't know. 
I don't ask this question and it

85
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was in with Vanity mine. 
Was the interview any good? 

86
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,640
I I don't. 
I mean a lot. 

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A lot of my interviews are quite
easy to find. 

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Now what were the, you know, 
YouTube. 

89
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But I don't tend to watch 
because they will just they 

90
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disappoint me one way or the 
other. 

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They either think, oh, that was.
I remember that was a really 

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good interview. 
And I watched it back and I 

93
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think actually it wasn't much 
very special, was it? 

94
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Or I thought, oh, I was a 
disaster, It was so awful. 

95
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I went horribly wrong. 
And I look at it again, it 

96
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didn't look much worse than, you
know, 100 other interviews. 

97
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So they're disappointment to be 
one way or another. 

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So I haven't watched that. 
I don't think bag ever. 

99
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So you'll have to. 
Yeah, it was. 

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He was you were absolutely fine.
You were trying to kind of 

101
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because the problem was Spike by
that point. 

102
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Because it was 1995 and it was 
just in the wake of groveling 

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Little Bastard Gate as well. 
Yes, from the from the Comedy 

104
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Awards the year before. 
In fact, it was only a few 

105
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months before. 
Yes, I'd been at that award, so 

106
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I'd seen him do it live, but it 
were. 

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Yes. 
I don't know why. 

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Can you now tell me why? 
How? 

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Why was he on my show other than
with? 

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I was asking him to be on was? 
Was he promoting something or 

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did he have something? 
Not really. 

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Well the thing was I think he 
his, his he got his career a 

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little bit of or his his profile
got a bit of a shot in the arm 

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from those Comedy Awards because
of the the the fallout from the 

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groveling bastard wine. 
OK and and and I've I've spoken 

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to his daughter subsequently and
and basically he'd been knocking

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back the wine because they were 
sort of encouraging the Comedy 

118
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Awards I believe the the 
organizers sort of encouraged a 

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lot of drinking I believe. 
Oh yeah, they were. 

120
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It was, it was, it was. 
The structure was quite right 

121
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built around that. 
So you all sat at the table. 

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You had to be there early in 
order to get the, you know, in 

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and assembled for the cameras 
and so forth, and that your 

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table, you might have a bowl of 
crisps and some nuts and an 

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almost unlimited amount of drink
and you put a lot of comedians, 

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egos clashing in the room. 
There was always a lot of 

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shouting out and Chai arking. 
I think Jonathan Ross, I think 

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pretty well always presented 
them and we were even, you know,

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comfortable in those 
circumstances. 

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But it was always a noisy affair
and I think deliberately getting

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people to behave slightly too 
badly, I would say, but I'm 

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probably a bit being a bit 
prissy about it. 

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I think if there was slightly 
less people shouting out abuse 

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at each other, probably been 
more expected award ceremony. 

135
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,760
Yeah, well, he he hadn't, 
apparently. 

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00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,800
He hadn't really eaten that day 
and he was quite nervous and 

137
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he's knocking back the red wine.
So he got up on on stage and it 

138
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,400
just kind of, it was just sort 
of spontaneous, apparently. 

139
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Here we go. 
I have a letter to read out here

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from His Royal Highness the 
Prince of Wales. 

141
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,320
Well, kneel down for this. 
I mean, enough trouble already. 

142
00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,560
I'm not going to say a word the.
Prince of Wales. 

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00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,600
The Prince of Wales. 
I'm sorry I have to do this for,

144
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,240
but I know it takes a lot of 
impact out of it. 

145
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But here we go. 
As someone who grew up to the 

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sounds of the Goon Show on the 
steam driven wireless, I must 

147
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confess that I've been a 
lifelong fan of the participants

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in the show, and particularly of
Spike Milligan. 

149
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Oh, the little grovelling 
bastard. 

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But it did. 
It did mean that he was, you 

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know in all the newspapers 
subsequently and and and whatnot

152
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and then turned up on Clive 
Anderson. 

153
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All talk now the I've only the 
the clip of his interview on 

154
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YouTube. 
OK, I saw it when it went out 

155
00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,560
but that was you know 30 years 
ago Clive. 

156
00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:03,520
But so watch that now. 
I believe that the actual show, 

157
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:11,000
the full show that episode, your
other guests were Norman, Tebbit

158
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and Bjork. 
Oh, wow. 

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00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:17,840
Let's begin to imagine the 
conversation in the green room 

160
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,520
beforehand. 
That's a good show that I liked 

161
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:27,040
having these combinations of of 
guests because I don't know why 

162
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we're so crazy with our guests. 
Bjork. 

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I interviewed a couple of times 
and I would say I did a bad 

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interview first. 
I mean she was great on play for

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them. 
The first one was largely me 

166
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making jokes about Iceland and 
and other related to it. 

167
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,080
But then she came back and I 
loved her on both occasions and 

168
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,880
she was very sweet and we got 
more on to talking about her and

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her music and generally so. 
So I think that in my mind 

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00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,680
anyway there's a bad Bjork 
interview and a good Bjorka 

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00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,720
Norman Tebbit he was quite a 
hard person to lay a glove on 

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00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,280
you know in a in a even in the 
context of an interview in a 

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00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,600
with a studio audience would 
wouldn't have been particularly 

174
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,960
sympathetic towards him. 
He was quite a skilled operator 

175
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,960
in those circumstances because 
he was a bit funnier than people

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00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,040
thought he was going to be And 
so he rolled with the with the 

177
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,160
jibes and came and it wasn't 
aggressively back but he he was 

178
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he was there for chuckling 
around. 

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00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:20,440
So now yeah all three together 
that was that was an interesting

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00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,040
yeah I call I said that was a 
good combination. 

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00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,840
You know not a good combination 
but a good range of people to 

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00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,880
absolutely. 
Yeah, Spike would have hated 

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00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,600
Tebbet, and he probably would 
have hated Bjork as well. 

184
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:34,920
He didn't. 
He didn't really like many 

185
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,160
people by that point of his 
life. 

186
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,160
No, he might not have followed 
music closely, but who knows, 

187
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,440
they might have. 
I mean there's even a 

188
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,600
possibility and I don't want to 
shine too much light into the 

189
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,240
magic. 
Sometimes it wasn't quite. 

190
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240
Sometimes we pre recorded one 
interview and so that people 

191
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,360
might not have all been in the 
same placed together, but I I I 

192
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,120
think they probably would have 
been on that on that occasion. 

193
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,360
I can't remember a pre record 
with any of those, but my memory

194
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,600
is not that reliable on detail 
anymore. 

195
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,160
I think I used to be able to 
recall almost every moment of 

196
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,440
interviews, but now they've I 
can hardly I'm doing well, if I 

197
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,160
can remember they interviewed 
people at all. 

198
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,000
Well, he was. 
He was, he was a little because 

199
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,800
again by the he was well, he was
only what, 6-7 years before he 

200
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,920
died that you interviewed him 
and he was quite quite frail and

201
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,960
and by this period of his life 
he was, he was often quite 

202
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,720
bitter. 
I think he was a bit better 

203
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,600
because he'd been, obviously he 
was a brilliant writer and he 

204
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,080
was always a bit under a strain,
a bit libel to crack up under 

205
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,520
under the effort, but full of 
benefitive ideas. 

206
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,440
And of course he had his heyday 
having you know been involved in

207
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,880
in the war and and you know, 
basically unpleasant 

208
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,680
circumstances, traumatising 
circumstances. 

209
00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:57,520
They got together, they were 
flavour of the month for for 

210
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,280
years and then time kind of 
moved on and they, he did all 

211
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,760
those shows on the radio. 
They tried them on the 

212
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,080
television with sort of puppets 
and things for I remember 

213
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,960
rightly. 
And then and then he had those 

214
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:18,800
other TV programmes which were Q
this and Q that and the the 

215
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,440
freedom to do stuff on radio is 
not quite there in in 

216
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,720
television. 
So what looked like and I 

217
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,280
suppose he was a bit older. 
So anyway the time moved on so 

218
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,560
Monty Python kind of picked up 
on his on a lot of his ideas 

219
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,760
which you're entitled to do in 
what you can broadly say is an 

220
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,680
art form. 
But so they respected him but 

221
00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:44,400
they'd taken on Ford and he was 
left without without a without a

222
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,400
regular gig And you know that 
that's painful for well all of 

223
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,320
us, you know think things happen
and you the the the circus moves

224
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:54,800
on. 
So I think he was a bit bitter 

225
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,560
about how you know being invited
onto a chat show or to play some

226
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:01,360
music. 
But to give him, you know, a 

227
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,760
studio full of, you know, an 
audience and A and a slot and 

228
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,440
the script to write and he, you 
know there there were much, many

229
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,080
fewer opportunities but. 
What he was he was talking about

230
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,360
on when he was talking to you, 
he was talking about just what 

231
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,440
you said there. 
He was complaining because 

232
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,080
because he was such a 
contradictory character he would

233
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,080
contradict himself from one week
to the next and and often he was

234
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,360
very effusive in his praise of 
the Pythons. 

235
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,280
But this this week he was a 
little bit bitter and he was 

236
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,520
saying that they basically 
copied everything he did in Q, 

237
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,760
the Q series. 
And he also said that he he'd 

238
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,920
because he said he wrote he was.
He'd written to John Cleese 

239
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,840
recently asking for a part in 
God Forbid, the film Fierce 

240
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,760
Creatures. 
Do you remember that? 

241
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,000
Film. 
Oh, I do, yes. 

242
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,320
Well, he was lucky not to get a 
part of that because Pierce 

243
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,600
Gringes wasn't particularly 
good. 

244
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,720
But I think he did crop up in. 
Was it Life of Brian? 

245
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,440
I think he was in the May. 
They gave him a bit there, which

246
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,520
was good of them. 
So he was in the better film. 

247
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,800
Yeah. 
Well and of course he he wasn't.

248
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,640
He may, he may have been better.
He may have been pretended to be

249
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:12,320
better. 
He may. 

250
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,320
But he didn't, you know, waste 
his time because he wrote 

251
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,480
several volumes of memoirs, 
published poetry. 

252
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,320
Cooney wrote quite a while 
before you know, the time 

253
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,480
interview, but but you know he 
he, he still was able to get 

254
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,480
published and have interest in 
him. 

255
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,160
But you know, everybody gets 
better and twisted right? 

256
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,320
The end. 
I just wrote to Cleese, he's 

257
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,560
doing his big film and I said I 
can I have a part of it. 

258
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,960
And he wrote back via a 
secretary. 

259
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,680
Dear Mr. Millig, Mr. Millig, and
every part is filled up. 

260
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:59,480
So I wrote and said no, can 
there be a part for a foreign 

261
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,240
legionnaire who doesn't do 
anything in the film but just 

262
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:09,720
keep keep shooting to him in the
desert and he's shooting Arabs. 

263
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:20,960
They they never answered that. 
I've got a a less involved 

264
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,800
memory of Harry Seekim because I
saw Harry Seekim in a show 

265
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,520
called. 
It was either called The Three 

266
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,680
Musketeers or it might have been
The Four Musketeers. 

267
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,720
Maybe you would know musicals 4 
Musketeers, musical version. 

268
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,160
I hope this is not disrespectful
to him, but I I went, well we 

269
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:43,400
went along to see it and just 
before the show began so it was 

270
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,080
one of those awful announcements
you get in the theatre from time

271
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,120
to time. 
And he said, oh I'm sorry to say

272
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,240
that because Harry Siegem was 
very much the star of the show. 

273
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,320
Sorry to say that Mister Siegem 
has got a problem with his 

274
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,160
voice. 
A heavy cold and oh and so the 

275
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,720
audience said Oh no, now he will
nonetheless. 

276
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,400
Nonetheless he will be able to 
perform tonight but but his 

277
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,920
voice isn't up to singing so 
when he's he'll perform but as 

278
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,600
it as it comes to the songs it's
his pre recorded it's his voice 

279
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,280
but he won't be singing. 
So on we went and he he did a 

280
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,880
bit of acting then there's a bit
of singing and of course he's a 

281
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,560
goon he's a comedian. 
While the voice is carrying on 

282
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,520
singing he doesn't just lip sync
he was mucking around and 

283
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,600
stopping and starting and making
faces. 

284
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,960
So we've got a whole lots of 
extra jokes. 

285
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,960
So, oh, that's, well, this is an
interesting night to be here. 

286
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,880
And then, you know, a few weeks 
later I was talking to somebody 

287
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,160
else and they said, oh, they'd 
seen the show and said, Oh yeah.

288
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,000
And I said, well, the night I 
went there, his voice wasn't so 

289
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,280
Oh yeah, that happened. 
We must be there the same night 

290
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,360
because that happened the night.
And then we worked out we were 

291
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,040
completely different weeks. 
And then I think we found a 

292
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,400
third person who'd been another 
and it what he must have done. 

293
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,680
He must have sung it on the 
first night or maybe the first 

294
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,120
week and then thought, oh this 
is this is hard work number one,

295
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,640
I don't want to have to keep 
hitting these notes #2 I can go 

296
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,119
for run get some extra laughs. 
Anyway, so I don't think he ever

297
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,920
he sang the sang the the part 
from some early part on, which 

298
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,280
is very clever of him because no
point, because you know there 

299
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,480
won't be reviewers who wouldn't 
have been coming in and out and 

300
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:24,280
it wasn't the same as nowadays. 
It would be obvious on Twitter 

301
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,359
and things that people would be 
saying oh great night with with 

302
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,760
Harry Siegem though unluckily 
his voice wasn't working. 

303
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,120
So that's an anecdote about him,
and I hope that's not revealing 

304
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,200
something awful about Harry 
Siegem years, years after his. 

305
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,440
Day. 
Well, you see, I if if I had the

306
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,720
choice between watching him 
singing live or watching him 

307
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,800
miming and just asking about, 
I'd go for the asking about. 

308
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,080
Yeah, no, I I agree. 
I was very happy with it. 

309
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,200
But I was. 
I was young and naive, I suppose

310
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:52,480
I was. 
Slightly shocked. 

311
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,040
Well, at least he turned up. 
At least they you know when they

312
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,000
said, oh, unfortunately, Harry C
Cubs. 

313
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,040
I'll At least they didn't get 
his understudy, and it turned 

314
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,400
out to be Charlie Drake or 
someone like. 

315
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,800
That yeah, it could have been 
Charlie Drake, I suppose that 

316
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,120
was. 
Can't remember what his singing 

317
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:07,680
voice was like, but oh, yes, you
do. 

318
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,240
Yes, he did. 
Yes, he did do some songs. 

319
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:15,880
Yes, it could have been. 
Here, scrolling right back to 

320
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,520
your earliest beginnings, Clive.
Yeah, because I just looked. 

321
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,520
I'm not going to mention the 
date, of course, but I'm looking

322
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,720
at when you were born, and it's 
quite significant in Goon Show 

323
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,640
history. 
OK, so the week you were born. 

324
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:32,040
Right. 
Was the week getting back to 

325
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,240
Spike in, you know, his 
challenges? 

326
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,640
It was the week that Milligan 
was famously He famously 

327
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,760
underwent a significant 
breakdown. 

328
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,920
He was admitted to hospital for 
about 9 or 10 weeks. 

329
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,120
Oh, right. 
And. 

330
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,000
Is this when he was away? 
And is it Michael Bentine had to

331
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,600
take over from him or or? 
Well, no, it's. 

332
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:52,560
Somebody else? 
It was. 

333
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,040
It was the third series of the 
game chase, so Bentine had been 

334
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,000
in the first two and left at the
end of Series 2. 

335
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:05,200
Series 3 begins towards the end 
of 52, OK, And Milligan 

336
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,920
basically is feeling the 
pressure, massively having to 

337
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,240
write these scripts. 
And he's he's gone on record and

338
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:17,960
said that he he wanted a 
legitimate excuse to stop 

339
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,560
writing, stop having to write 
The Goon Show, OK. 

340
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:28,800
And in his fevered mind he 
thought, OK, if I kill Peter 

341
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,160
Sellers, then I won't have to 
write The Goon Show anymore. 

342
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,360
OK, So what he did because he 
lived. 

343
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,160
He lived. 
I think he lived in the same 

344
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,080
apartment building as Sellers at
the time. 

345
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,320
I think I'm right in saying 
that. 

346
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,200
So what he did was he, he, he 
got a potato peeler and he 

347
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,280
marched to Sellers flat 
intending. 

348
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,800
So he said to kill him and 
Sellers at that time Sellers 

349
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,760
being Sellers had a had a flash 
plate glass door and the story 

350
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,120
is that the story is that 
Milligan walked, walked right 

351
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:10,120
through the glass door you know 
and injured himself. 

352
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,840
I I can't see that happening. 
But anyway he walked into the 

353
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,600
glass door and and it basically 
saved Peter Sellers life 

354
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,640
apparently. 
I don't think, I don't think 

355
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,280
Milligan had any real intention 
of stabbing him. 

356
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,920
But that was that's the that's 
the legend, if you know what I 

357
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:23,600
mean. 
And as. 

358
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:24,000
All right. 
Well. 

359
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,000
As a result of that, Mulligan 
was admitted to, was was 

360
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,680
sectioned, admitted to, put into
hospital and and he was away 

361
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,880
from the show for about 9 or 10 
weeks and in his absence Graham 

362
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,240
Stark and Dick Emery did 
alternate weeks to cover for his

363
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,400
absence. 
Well, I think I knew a bit of 

364
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,440
that story, but those details 
either I never knew or I've 

365
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,360
forgotten. 
But that's a that's an 

366
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:54,240
interesting insight into the 
psychology of of Milligan, or 

367
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,120
indeed anybody that that the 
mind comes up with. 

368
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,560
The most ludicrous solution the 
the simple problem I can't quite

369
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,640
meet this deadline solution 
would be get somebody else to 

370
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,960
write it or I get a doctor's 
note to say I can't do it. 

371
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,520
For the rest of this series, 
please meet me, see give me, 

372
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,200
give me a series off or I resign
from showbiz. 

373
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,280
All those are better than 
deciding to kill a colleague, 

374
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,080
which is going to have a 
consequence down the line, which

375
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,920
is bigger than the awkwardness 
of not being able to complete 

376
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,560
the series. 
But but your mind can go down 

377
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,560
odd ways. 
Can't it? 

378
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,320
Well, that's it now and and the 
the the goons producer for the 

379
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,080
first two series. 
I'm trying to think if he was 

380
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,680
still the producer for the third
series I should know this. 

381
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,080
But anyway. 
But the producer was Dennis 

382
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,880
Mayne Wilson. 
All right. 

383
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,360
Yes. 
And I know that he he figured in

384
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:49,200
your early career, didn't he? 
Quite significantly. 

385
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:55,200
He did we when we're skipping 
for from my birth time and 

386
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,400
you've decorously well. 
Kind of give it. 

387
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,040
Away your name? 
No, no. 

388
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,120
But I'm. 
I'm grateful for that because I 

389
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:03,440
don't suppose I'll ever get 
round to it. 

390
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,040
But if I were ever to write my 
memoirs, yeah, it occurs to me. 

391
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,720
For me and indeed anybody else 
writing memoirs nowadays, you 

392
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,760
there are a number of things you
don't want to actually include 

393
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,160
in your memoirs anymore. 
Normally you just a pump in lots

394
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,280
of bits of information just to 
just to make it nice and clear 

395
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,840
and snappy. 
And you might ordinarily just 

396
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,240
put your date of birth, or the 
name of your first school. 

397
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,240
You'll mention your first dog, 
you'll mention your mother's 

398
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,280
maiden name. 
None of these you want to 

399
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,200
mention anymore because they're 
all clues to getting access to 

400
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,320
your bank account and all the 
other things. 

401
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,560
So you've got to find, and I'd 
thought of a way of indicating 

402
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,840
roughly when I was born but 
without actually spelling out 

403
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,240
the the date of birth because 
it's it's it's close to what's 

404
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,680
allegedly the last great smog in
London. 

405
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,080
I was in a few days one way or 
the other of that. 

406
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,160
But now I can say I was born 
during the time when Spike 

407
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,320
Milligan was, had been sectioned
or or was, you know, in in that 

408
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,800
sort of prospect because of 
attacking A fellow fellow 

409
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,960
performer. 
And this clearly infused my soul

410
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,600
as well. 
But not that I've ever wanted to

411
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,040
attack anybody. 
But yes, Dennis Mayne Wilson 

412
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,000
comes much. 
So we skipped forward quite a 

413
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,440
few years when I was at 
Cambridge in the Footlights 

414
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,080
doing reviews and things. 
The the review that we're in in 

415
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,760
1974, which was a quite a jolly 
review. 

416
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,120
I wouldn't say it was the best 
one ever. 

417
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:32,400
It wasn't particularly 
innovative. 

418
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,280
But Dennis Mayne Wilson saw it 
and he liked it. 

419
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,840
He liked us. 
It was. 

420
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,320
There were a couple of good 
performers in it. 

421
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,840
Griffey Stones and and an actor 
as he still is sort of Jeff 

422
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,400
Mcgiven who is a brilliant 
performer great and and and one 

423
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,200
or two. 
I mean I I'm maybe I caught his 

424
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,920
eye. 
I can't remember him singling me

425
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,240
out in particular, but anyway we
so he you could almost say he 

426
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:02,360
latched on to us for a bit and 
he encouraged us to well, it it 

427
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:05,440
one way or another it meant that
that review was on television, 

428
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,560
that he and he produced it and 
also in the West End, neither of

429
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,440
which both of which rather 
really exposed it for being not 

430
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,480
not quite good enough in either 
situation. 

431
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,520
Not helped by the fact that the 
IT was filmed during a 

432
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,560
cameraman's strike which used to
happen in those days. 

433
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:31,520
So we were filmed in the West 
End theatre with sport 

434
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,440
cameramen. 
So there were there's that sort 

435
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,400
of action replays of some of the
better jokes or was it off 

436
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,600
color. 
Let's look at that again. 

437
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,960
And so we. 
But anyway he was, but he was 

438
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,320
very entertained. 
He was one of the great 

439
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,240
producers of radio then 
television and work with Johnny 

440
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,000
Spate and all the and quite a 
slight man in terms not not very

441
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,960
tall and not very fat and I the 
expression we you you probably 

442
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,040
use about him as he'd like to 
drink which yes TV producers 

443
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,640
like to do. 
I mean, he wasn't rolling drunk,

444
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,080
but he, you know, of an evening 
you'd have a few drinks. 

445
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:12,720
And he was an enthusiast and 
loved encouraging people and he 

446
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,080
encouraged encouraged us, but he
also encouraged lots of other 

447
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,360
people, probably with greater 
success for his career. 

448
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:21,920
There's other people than than 
us. 

449
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,400
But he was. 
He was entertaining to have such

450
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,920
a great man around. 
Yeah, and. 

451
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,240
And he'd like to smoke as well, 
didn't he? 

452
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,400
I think he did, but it wasn't. 
So probably if you saw film of 

453
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,600
that you, you know, you look at 
TV programmes or films from the 

454
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,440
olden days, even the bits of the
olden days that you're in, you 

455
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,400
just go, gosh, everyone's 
smoking the whole time. 

456
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,560
But but everybody did I. 
Not something I ever did, but it

457
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,640
was just a normal thing, a 
normal thing of life that you 

458
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,800
know, if you spent an hour in a 
pub or you went to dinner with 

459
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,960
some friends in the house, or 
you went on the upstairs deck of

460
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,960
a bus or even in the 
underground, you smelled the 

461
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:02,240
smoke the the whole time. 
Because if you weren't smoking, 

462
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,480
50% of the people around you 
were. 

463
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,480
It is, it is. 
You know, I don't want to go off

464
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,240
in a tangent, but it's amazing 
because because smoking in 

465
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,280
public places was was banned. 
I think it was 2007. 

466
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,400
So let's let's say 15 years ago,
Just, just, yes, whatever. 

467
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,480
It's amazing. 
I mean, I used to smoke, I used,

468
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,280
I remember I used to go out with
friends on a Saturday afternoon 

469
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,840
and smoke a full packet of 20 
pegs in the course of an 

470
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,960
afternoon in a pub. 
You know, that's ridiculous. 

471
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,640
And I come home. 
Stinking or but you know, 

472
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,920
working in an office, if two or 
three people smoked, they just 

473
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,360
smoked nobody. 
I mean, it was quite sort of. 

474
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,520
And I always felt rather sorry 
for smokers because it's never 

475
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,440
been a thing to worry me one way
or the other because I've never 

476
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,680
wanted to smoke. 
So I'm not feeling tempted, but 

477
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,920
it never really bothered me that
there was a bit of smoke around.

478
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,280
It's only after it's been banned
you realise, oh, it is actually 

479
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,200
quite pleasant not to smell of 
smoke after an evening out. 

480
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,920
Absolutely, yeah. 
Absolutely, Yeah. 

481
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,520
You started sort of performing 
at the Comedy Store in its early

482
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:04,640
days. 
Yeah. 

483
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,520
Now John Lloyd, I think John 
Lloyd said, did you? 

484
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Did you Did you Heckle him at 
one point? 

485
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,800
No, I I I always liked the Well,
I I always liked it. 

486
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,960
I had it. 
The Comedy Store, especially in 

487
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,440
its early days was quite a 
challenging crowd because the 

488
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,920
audience didn't really know what
stand up comedy was in a sort of

489
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,400
weird way. 
So there was a it was in a a 

490
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,520
strip club was something of 
which is a strip club during the

491
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,560
week and they had this and then 
it was alternative comedy non 

492
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,920
sexist non racist all very all 
very modern and progressive when

493
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,640
it was a comedy place and it but
you know they're usually sort of

494
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,200
drink raise its ugly head as 
well So it's you know midnight 

495
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,000
one in the morning 2:00 in the 
morning before me but I and you 

496
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,760
get a lot of heckling you got a 
lot it wasn't a it wasn't an 

497
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,920
easy environment nobody knew who
you were because we were all new

498
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,680
people. 
But I quite liked the atmosphere

499
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,480
of heckling. 
I I thrived in it rather than 

500
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,880
put off by it. 
So. 

501
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,520
But the only time I can ever 
remember it going wrong as far 

502
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,040
as the audience was concerned 
was it wasn't that I was 

503
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,280
heckling John Lloyd. 
He was in the audience and I 

504
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,320
knew him and he was, you know, 
the Wizkid producer. 

505
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,560
And I made the mistake of trying
to sort of refer to him in the 

506
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,760
audience and say we got the 
producer of not 9:00 news. 

507
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,840
And I was going on to do some 
jokes about that program and 

508
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,520
about him. 
But what I hadn't reckoned with 

509
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,040
that Keith Allen, who was the 
one of the top, you know, an 

510
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,720
actor now and very, very 
forceful for me. 

511
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,320
He's well, well, no, but he's 
one of his things. 

512
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,840
At the time, he was a very 
impressive comedian, always 

513
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,680
going off in innovative ways. 
But he was in the audience and 

514
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,960
and he was drunk, which wasn't 
unusual. 

515
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:06,000
And he took against John Lloyd 
being referred to and he decided

516
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,000
to be, you know, disparaging 
about not like, I mean, I don't 

517
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,720
know why there's no. 
So I was faced. 

518
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,320
I mean, I can claim I think 
legitimate. 

519
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,160
I've never found it impossible 
to carry on performing, even at 

520
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,160
the Comedy Store with even with 
some hecklers, but I couldn't 

521
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,920
quite cope with a member of the 
audience heckling another member

522
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,360
of the audience. 
It was the most strange thing, 

523
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,280
and the person doing the 
heckling was the best known of 

524
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,560
all the comedians there. 
But anyway, that's that was a it

525
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640
was a difficult night for me, 
but I can't really blame John 

526
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Lloyd. 
It wasn't his fault. 

527
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,000
I could blame Keith Allen, but 
Keith Allen did the funniest, 

528
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,760
the funniest performance I've 
ever seen, I think ever in the 

529
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,280
Comedy Store on a different 
night. 

530
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,280
So I'm, you know, I have plus 
and minus memories of him in 

531
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,560
that particular location. 
Before we go any further, I'd 

532
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,840
like now to take this 
opportunity to do a tiny little 

533
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,640
slice of the ACT for all those 
grovelling, cretinous, moronic 

534
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:10,840
comics out there in Noddy Land. 
That was the sound of me earning

535
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,400
£10, the best thing he did. 
It's the funniest thing I've 

536
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,600
ever seen in comedy. 
And he came on with no clothes 

537
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,640
on and did a ventriloquist act 
and he just stood there. 

538
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,680
He started talking to his, his 
puppet and every now and then he

539
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,840
would readjust his, what we call
the law, his person, and he just

540
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,520
carry. 
And he explained, this may look 

541
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,040
like a radical act, but it was 
just the oldest way of doing 

542
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,200
ventriloquism known to man is 
that the idea of ventriloquism 

543
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,680
really is that you can't stop 
your your lips moving, but the 

544
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,320
idea is to stop the audience 
looking at your lips. 

545
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,440
And nobody in the audience has 
looked at my lips since I came 

546
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,720
on. 
Just on John Lloyd, obviously I 

547
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,400
know you you did a bit of 
writing for not the 9:00 news, I

548
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,480
believe. 
I did a little bit just when I 

549
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,960
was sorry to refer back to 
university days, but I did a a 

550
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,000
couple of what we call May week 
reviews at Cambridge, which 

551
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,600
happened in June and then 
they're quite, they get a lot of

552
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,160
exposure around different. 
Places. 

553
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,880
Isn't that Clive James memoir? 
May Week was in June. 

554
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,440
Yes, very probably. 
Yes. 

555
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:11,280
I think you're right. 
Yeah. 

556
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,920
Sorry. 
So, so when when you come to do 

557
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,880
it, you generally get have to 
have a director to be in charge 

558
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,880
who isn't there. 
So I've done this myself. 

559
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,240
After I left I directed a 
review, but the time I was sort 

560
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:32,080
of normally in charge I I got 
John Lloyd to direct the not the

561
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,080
one I was talking about with 
Dennis May Wells in next year's 

562
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,680
review. 
So I like to think that I set 

563
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,600
his career on its way by 
employing him as a director. 

564
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,960
But he was already a producer at
Radio 4 and was already coming 

565
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,080
up with lots of different 
formats and shows and things and

566
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,120
and had and as you know from 
having interviewed him or people

567
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,560
might know he's extraordinary 
produced in a way because he's 

568
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,160
gotten several huge highlights 
in his producing career radio 

569
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,800
and television and I I don't 
think there are there may be no 

570
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,640
sort of downlights you know 
there there. 

571
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,400
Everything he's done has been a 
sort of great success so. 

572
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,720
So I think he wouldn't have 
achieved any of that if I hadn't

573
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,880
allowed him to really work 
through some of his ideas 

574
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,280
directing a a review. 
So when he's when he had not 

575
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,320
liked that news, he he the way 
he liked to work on that. 

576
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,080
And I used to get as many 
scripts as possible from many as

577
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,880
people as possible and have a 
huge pile. 

578
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,960
And then he would personally 
stay up all night worrying 

579
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,560
himself to a frazzle to reduce 
it down to a smaller pile, which

580
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,240
they would then they would then 
film and record and then 

581
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,240
sometimes bits and pieces of my 
work might survive. 

582
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,120
But not not a huge amount, but 
it was. 

583
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,360
I was being a lawyer at the 
time, so I only could. 

584
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,680
Contribute. 
Yes, OK. 

585
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,600
Well, small amounts, and only 
small amounts of those small 

586
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,880
amounts we worth doing anyway. 
Well, I know that you were more 

587
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,520
involved with with, with the 
show that I consider. 

588
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,120
I don't think it's criminally, 
what's the word? 

589
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Underappreciated today. 
Yeah, Smith and Jones the last. 

590
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,120
Smith and Jones. 
Smith and Jones. 

591
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,480
I I love that show. 
And. 

592
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,240
And you? 
Did you did a lot of the the 

593
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,960
head to heads didn't you and and
what not in that? 

594
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,200
Yes, that's what I mainly did. 
I I because as I I I suspect the

595
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,120
people who listen to your 
podcast know all this already. 

596
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,240
But so so 9 not Nag on news had 
four stars in it's it's heyday. 

597
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,800
You know Rowan Axis and Pamela 
Stevenson and Mel Smith. 

598
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,520
Griffey Jones and they were got 
got enough together to do their 

599
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,320
own show which they eventually 
were producing with their own 

600
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,680
company. 
But along the way I wrote a 

601
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,720
sketch which I thought was a 
good sketch but they because it 

602
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,080
was it would give Mel Smith and 
it was sort of like a parody of 

603
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,160
the Tony Hancock in the blood 
donor you know the blood donor 

604
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,120
episode. 
I just well I'd update it and he

605
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,920
he, Mel would be a sperm donor. 
So I set this thing in a in a 

606
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,880
going along to a sperm bank and 
obviously a number of jokes 

607
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,719
almost write themselves when you
do that but they said Oh no well

608
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,800
they'd you know we want to do 
it. 

609
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,199
But it was a format that they 
already had which I think they'd

610
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,320
done in adverts and they'd make 
it a conversation so take my 

611
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,520
jokes and make a conversation 
between Griff and Mel about and 

612
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,960
we wrote we rewrote it later and
made it rudio. 

613
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,760
It was quite mild I think on the
first television go through 

614
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,840
considering the topic and this 
were these were these head to 

615
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,480
heads which were unusually 
performed because you had Griff 

616
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,159
and Mel just sitting opposite 
each other. 

617
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,600
It was a locked off camera so 
there's no director deciding 

618
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,560
whose reaction shot he would go 
to or nothing like that. 

619
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,560
The studio audience didn't even 
see them you know in in in the 

620
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,000
Flesh. 
They were behind the screen 

621
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,280
because it was all focused on 
them and their faces and they 

622
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,160
were both brilliant and they had
different ways of doing it. 

623
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,000
So the first few series I wrote 
those, or there was a sort of 

624
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,840
working practice that we had, I 
would we'd have a conversation 

625
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,120
about what we might cover with 
me and Griff or me, Griffin, 

626
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,720
Mel, me Griffin, Mel and a 
producer or five. 

627
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,040
And then I would go away and 
write it up. 

628
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,760
And almost universally Griff 
would then say, Clive, you've 

629
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,800
it's way too long and you've 
left out all the best jokes. 

630
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,920
So you said that virtually every
time so so they would get so I 

631
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,960
did all the donkey work on it, 
but then it got reduced down and

632
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,520
eventually they performed it. 
And the I don't, I can never 

633
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,560
work out how they both were so 
good because Griff, I don't know

634
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,000
how he could remember which 
version they were now going to 

635
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,920
do because he had. 
He had at least 20 versions in 

636
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,160
his head from my epic work, 
which would have lasted 25 

637
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,760
minutes down to the the, you 
know, my 10 minute version to 

638
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,840
his 8 minute version to the 
producers 6 minute, you know, 

639
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,040
whatever whatever it was. 
And Mel had just got the final 

640
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,440
version, glanced at it and then 
they and then could perform it. 

641
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,560
So you get that nervy 
performance of Griff I think 

642
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,440
comes from, which is the next 
line. 

643
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,160
And Mel with that sort of, you 
know, yeah and just saying it 

644
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,400
because he knew roughly where he
was going. 

645
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,520
So it was it was very much in 
the performance, but I made my 

646
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,520
contribution. 
But as I said, I did the bit of 

647
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,080
the donkey work behind the 
scenes. 

648
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,640
Yeah, if I'm. 
I'm trying to think the the 

649
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,880
sperm donor dialogue, if I'm 
right, it's got that line that 

650
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:30,760
stuck with me to this day where 
Mel talks about going to the the

651
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,320
sperm clinic and Griff says 
something like what? 

652
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,120
How's that happened there? 
How's that happened? 

653
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,720
And Mel says, what do you mean? 
He said, and Griff goes, well, 

654
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:47,320
how come is that the? 
Yeah, so I think that's that 

655
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,880
sounds like the level of yes, 
you see once you've set see 

656
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,280
those? 
Yeah. 

657
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,560
But once you've set the scene, 
the jokes are there, aren't 

658
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,000
they? 
You don't absolutely work too 

659
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,360
hard of them. 
You don't have to spell them 

660
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,200
out. 
In fact, if you spell them out 

661
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,280
too much the the wither and die.
But I think it was not too bad 

662
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:09,000
in terms of taste and decency. 
But later on we they did stage 

663
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,040
versions and an A naughty record
version of some of their stuff 

664
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,920
and I think we added a few more 
few more in your in your face. 

665
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,400
Joking if that's not a a bad way
of putting it. 

666
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,600
But anyway, yes, so we did. 
So we had to think of a topic 

667
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,640
they were usually to do with 
something awkward happening in 

668
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,560
Mel's life and Griff 
misunderstanding it. 

669
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,800
So it could and and it wasn't 
always about sex, but it could 

670
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,240
have been about incontinence or 
it could have been about going 

671
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:38,720
to prison. 
You know any anything they're 

672
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,040
they're quite fun to do because 
in in turn and I used to do the 

673
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,880
warm ups on the that show so. 
So there are a lot of more 

674
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,720
complicated sketches which are a
nightmare for everybody and but 

675
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,600
especially the warm up man 
because if you, you set a sketch

676
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,160
in, let's send me something 
simple like you're having a tea 

677
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,200
with a vicar and you know, 
there's Griffin, Mel and there's

678
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,640
plus somebody playing the vicar 
and there's a woman who's coming

679
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,280
in to to confront one of them. 
And then they come in and oh, 

680
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:07,840
somebody knocks the teapot over.
So. 

681
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,240
Oh, I've got a reset. 
So we now have got an 

682
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,160
unspecified amount of time. 
If it's quick, nothing happens. 

683
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,800
Oh, no, we're a bit longer. 
So. 

684
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:16,280
All right. 
So. 

685
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,800
So. 
So as you can see, the sketch is

686
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,640
going well. 
You have to do this a bit of 

687
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,240
linking, blinking and, you know,
try and laugh in the same spot 

688
00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:23,920
next time. 
All right. 

689
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,240
We're resuming and now and then 
we finish that and there's 

690
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,120
another sketch. 
Well, Mel's got to go and put a 

691
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,440
different wig on for the next 
thing. 

692
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,360
How long is that going to take? 
But but with at least with the 

693
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,640
head to head, they were roughly 
you know appeared as they were 

694
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,720
and they were nothing. 
They had to get it right. 

695
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:43,000
They could only film it once. 
We never felt it would work if 

696
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,240
you did it again in front of the
same audience. 

697
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,280
So they had to do it just 
straight their way through and 

698
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,760
the only editing they did was 
either to cut off the beginning 

699
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,080
or the end if it was too long. 
There's no monkeying around with

700
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,560
it. 
But so I but I certainly was so 

701
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,680
as I was the I was I I was a 
better warm up person. 

702
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,560
I was writer really. 
So I but I was always made sure 

703
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,560
the audience was primed, hyped 
to hysteria, ready for the head 

704
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,320
to head. 
There was no question. 

705
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,280
I'm sorry. 
No, no, we can't proceed yet. 

706
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,600
I've got to do another 5 minutes
to make sure we were absolutely 

707
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,480
at fever pitch for that one. 
Because otherwise I I've 

708
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:18,920
achieved nothing. 
Absolutely. 

709
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,040
And you did warm up for 
Blackadder as well, didn't you? 

710
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,920
Did you alternate again or 
something? 

711
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,600
I no, well, Ben was in it 
obviously. 

712
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,040
Oh no, he wasn't in it. 
I think I do remember one 

713
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,400
episode where we had a 
particularly troubling time. 

714
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,960
Ben sort of joined me, which was
very kind of him. 

715
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,720
Now what was the problem? 
I think I in those days they 

716
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:45,800
were quite keen to finish the 
recording at a let's say it was 

717
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,560
10:00 because if they went 
beyond that time all the you 

718
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,600
know everybody got double time 
or something you know overtime 

719
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,040
or there's an extra charge And 
it was it was important 

720
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,080
economically I think to the to 
the production company and one 

721
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,040
particular time when Rowan has a
a sort of suppressed stutter 

722
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,480
which which lends lends comedy 
to quite a lot. 

723
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,760
You know that thing about 
calling? 

724
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,840
There's a girl, plenty of boys, 
Bob, and it's funnier because of

725
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,360
that. 
But I think he got stuck on a 

726
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,640
word and it meant that time was 
going by, so we had to keep 

727
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,840
stopping and and me infilling 
Ben infilled. 

728
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,480
And to give me a student, the 
thing about Rhone is that I 

729
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,680
think anybody else would have 
said we will find another word 

730
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,200
to so that I he's not going to 
stammer or stutter on it. 

731
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:38,520
But he wouldn't because that was
the word. 

732
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,080
I can't remember what the word 
was now, but that was the 

733
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,280
funniest word. 
And there was no question of him

734
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,320
doing a slightly less funny word
in order to to to get over that 

735
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,960
hill. 
You know, oddly enough probably 

736
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,640
he'd have got a huge laugh by 
putting any other word in 

737
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,760
because the steroids would there
would be a sort of tension 

738
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,760
releaser. 
But I Yeah, well, maybe. 

739
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,720
Yes, you're quite right. 
Probably Ben did some weeks and 

740
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:03,000
I didn't do it. 
I don't know. 

741
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,560
But I did some early series of 
that and then my own TV career 

742
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,920
took off and I regard probably 
thought of myself as too haughty

743
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,520
to do other people's warm up. 
But I don't. 

744
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,960
I didn't do that. 
I don't think I did the last 

745
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,480
series, which is, you know, the 
one set in the First World War, 

746
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,800
which is a shame really, because
it's it's one of the great, 

747
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,920
great shows of all time, really,
that series of all time, the The

748
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,240
Blackadder goes forth. 
Well, you you were busy doing 

749
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,600
Whose? 
Whose Line is it anyway by? 

750
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,840
The way I probably was yeah I 
was doing my own career by then 

751
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,440
but on behalf it's a warm up man
is a is an UN literally 

752
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,280
unheralded position because all 
those people get credited at the

753
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:47,000
ends of of now the the forgotten
art of sketch shows and sitcoms 

754
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,960
on the telly almost never did 
they anyone give a credit to the

755
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,800
warm up person. 
It was a sort of a slightly 

756
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,920
embarrassed to admit that there 
was somebody who was actually 

757
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,640
jolling jolling the thing on I 
don't know why but just the same

758
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,600
way that some sort of panelly 
kind of games they don't really 

759
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,720
like to admit that somebody's 
actually worked on the programme

760
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:10,320
and written some jokes so they 
don't like to say writer or 

761
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,560
written script written by they 
say programme associate or 

762
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,480
concern. 
No no. 

763
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,680
Nobody knows who the what's that
who's who's the associate of the

764
00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,200
programme. 
See somebody who's done the 

765
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,600
financial deal or is she 
somebody who has come in to sort

766
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,840
out the logistics What what 
could Oh no, it's oh, it's the 

767
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,160
writer only. 
So those those bits when 

768
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,440
somebody speaks. 
So some of them are more honest 

769
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,320
these days but it's a sort of 
it's a euphemism but with the 

770
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,040
warm up people, they they even 
bother to they don't say 

771
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:46,120
programme programme facilitator 
or something or audience 

772
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,160
Wrangler. 
No audience Wrangler, 

773
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,160
uncredited. 
Felix Felix bonus was was the 

774
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,880
was one of the exponents of 
that. 

775
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,240
Wasn't he from high? 
Yeah, there's some, yeah. 

776
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:59,000
There it's it's a it's a noble 
art. 

777
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,880
I mean you could do it in a 
variety of different ways. 

778
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,640
As I said, I used to do it for 
shows I'd written jokes for and 

779
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,440
then I but I I was more much 
became in demand as a as a warm 

780
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,640
up person. 
Let's say more than I was in 

781
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,720
demand for writing and other 
people's shows. 

782
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,720
Check off and. 
There's a check off, right? 

783
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,240
At least you work though. 
Come on. 

784
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,440
No work. 
I get up in the morning. 

785
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,720
I have. 2 glasses of vodka. 
No more than that, 2 glasses of 

786
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:28,960
vodka. 
I go off down the hill. 

787
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,360
At the end of that hill, I see 
her. 

788
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:34,680
You don't have to worry about 
that. 

789
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:37,720
You're handsome and charming. 
You don't have TB. 

790
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,200
What happened? 
I don't know. 

791
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,120
What's your make? 
What happened? 

792
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,920
I don't know. 
There's a lot of pain inside. 

793
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,480
For a moment I went up to her 
bedroom and she was there, 

794
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,000
actually waiting for me. 
If I knew that Antioch 

795
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,760
telescope, I could wait for more
than 5 minutes. 

796
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,960
I'd feel like an old grub box 
has been bounced off a Zebra's 

797
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,240
head. 
Summer in Siberia. 

798
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,240
If I'd known this part was going
to be so small, I'd never have 

799
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:20,280
taken it. 
You've you've clearly not worked

800
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,480
with John before. 
Just on Whose Line is It, 

801
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,360
anyway? 
And appreciate we're barrelling 

802
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,560
through topics here, but you 
know you. 

803
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:28,480
Yeah. 
No, that's fine. 

804
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,760
It's time. 
Yeah. 

805
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,400
So it's good that you're taking 
it out of, well, we are. 

806
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,000
It's probably my fault, taking 
it out of a chronological order.

807
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,160
So it'll confuse the listeners 
to this as much as it will. 

808
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,560
That's the way this podcast 
rolls. 

809
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,240
Yeah. 
Now I I, I love certainly the 

810
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:48,760
earlier series on. 
I've listened to the radio 

811
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,600
series but the the TV series, 
what I would call the. 

812
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,440
I don't know. 
I don't know how many. 

813
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,280
The first three or four series I
absolutely adored had taped as 

814
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,680
many as possible. 
And with the with what I 

815
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,440
consider the the classic sort of
lineup, you've got Mert and 

816
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,200
Josie Lawrence, John Sessions, 
Tony Slattery and others of 

817
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,480
course. 
But I know Peter Cook and 

818
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,160
Stephen Fry were there 
occasionally, weren't they? 

819
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,720
And I'm. 
I'm genuinely not saying this. 

820
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:18,960
I'm not trying to make you blush
sweetly here, but I I felt your 

821
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,160
contribution to that show was 
kind of again, it was 

822
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,400
underappreciated maybe, or 
overlooked a little bit. 

823
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:25,680
I don't. 
I don't know. 

824
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,080
I suppose. 
I know. 

825
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,920
We we did it on the radio 1st 
and it was it. 

826
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,000
It seemed to work for me 
personally. 

827
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,120
It worked well on the radio 
because there was plenty of 

828
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,960
opportunity for me to interact 
with the audience. 

829
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:43,080
Everything feels more relaxed in
a radio studio and we didn't we 

830
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,760
didn't know yet what we were 
doing anyway. 

831
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,200
So I did quite a lot of chit 
chat with the audience when we 

832
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,960
went onto television. 
I felt we're always under 

833
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,360
pressure of time and there was 
and I thought I would go 

834
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,160
completely unnoticed and then 
I'd be be so just be almost like

835
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,640
a continuity announcer. 
But I forget I can't really 

836
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,080
explain who explained this to me
because it's somebody's 

837
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,160
reputation is gone now. 
But so though the main thing if 

838
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,600
we're all there every week you 
will get noticed anyway. 

839
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,600
Yeah whatever you do but you 
become part of the maybe part of

840
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,840
the furniture but you're you're 
part of the set up. 

841
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:21,600
So I I that's interesting you 
like those first series because 

842
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,760
in a way it was still it was 
sort of settling down when when 

843
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,760
we did the radio series. 
Dan Patterson, who invented it. 

844
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,520
He managed to recruit John 
Sessions who's a great 

845
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,240
improviser who had done lots of 
different things on stage and 

846
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,680
I'd I'd seen him perform and you
think, well, I've written for 

847
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,840
him in other things as well. 
But the you know, how could he, 

848
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,360
you know, use his talents and 
he, he was a show that Dan had 

849
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,720
come up with improvisation. 
Well, fine, that's good. 

850
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,720
Stephen Fry. 
So he was going to be a captain 

851
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,920
of a two man team every week and
Stephen Fry was going to be the 

852
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,360
the other captain and of course 
Stephen Fry can sort of do 

853
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,560
anything and you know, certainly
just to give it a whirl and 

854
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,480
that's what he did. 
It turned out he didn't really 

855
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,120
like doing it, but he seemed to.
And I, as in a lot of things, 

856
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,040
was completely wrong in my 
analysis because I thought, oh, 

857
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,920
this is going to be very tricky 
for John and Stephen because 

858
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:15,880
they'll give us their best shots
on things. 

859
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,560
But then new people be coming in
every week, The new people would

860
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,520
all be find it much easier 
because they'd be bringing their

861
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,280
new stuff and they'll be really 
struggling. 

862
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,160
Well, they're completely wrong. 
The The more you do it, the more

863
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,880
adept you get at it. 
And and so that applied on the 

864
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,480
radio and the television. 
When we moved to television, 

865
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:40,440
Stephen just sort of revealed he
found it all a bit too much of A

866
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,240
strain and he would only do a 
few. 

867
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,320
And then John was sort of, well,
if Steve's not going to do it, I

868
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,400
don't think I want to do it. 
Which was tough on Dan because 

869
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,880
he'd thrown in his job at the 
BBC Radio in order to start 

870
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,640
doing television just for that 
series. 

871
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,360
You know that's the only thing 
he had to do until his two stars

872
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,240
were sort of deciding or not 
maybe not doing it but anyway he

873
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:05,200
persuade John. 
So for the first few series John

874
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,960
he was he was a very 
individualistic way of 

875
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,640
improvising and and brilliant at
it. 

876
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,960
But the the the show kind of 
moved on and he he, I think he'd

877
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,560
had enough as well. 
So we you know the the the line 

878
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,600
UPS changed but you're 
mentioning all those different 

879
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,600
people on it. 
There were there were all sorts 

880
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,960
of people we tried to do it and 
it turned out we felt anyway 

881
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,760
that after a while that there 
are people who are very good at 

882
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,200
improvising and it's no point in
trying to force the issue and 

883
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,760
getting a star guest in or as 
somebody else to jolly it along.

884
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,760
It was better to stick to the 
people who are good at 

885
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,040
improvising. 
So that's how it settled down a 

886
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,960
bit in later series to have. 
I think Dan took it a bit far 

887
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,800
because I I would have varied 
the line UPS a bit more but 

888
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,320
yeah, what do I know I've I 
wasn't producing it so. 

889
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,600
Do you do you see Tony Slattery 
at all these days? 

890
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,120
I I have seen him not somebody 
else has asked me just recently 

891
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,520
about this. 
So we've done whose Line is 

892
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:09,400
Anyway on the stage in a variety
of forms some less formally than

893
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,680
others. 
So we've done it in Edinburgh 

894
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,800
two or three times the obviously
at the festival and then Dan has

895
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:19,200
produced it the well the Albert 
Hall we've done it a couple of 

896
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,680
other London theatres and the 
Palladium Theatre so. 

897
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,120
So now in the ones in Edinburgh 
though I think he did two years 

898
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,320
anyway the the guy producing it 
there said I've persuaded Tony 

899
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,880
Slattery to do it and it was 
great to see him again and the 

900
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,640
audience loved him. 
You know they're really in 

901
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,640
because they were the you know 
big theatre in the Edinburgh 

902
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,120
Festival and we other we've got 
younger people joining the cast 

903
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,840
but yeah certainly having you 
know Greg Proops or Colin 

904
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,600
Mockery Josie Lawrence you know 
have people that people and Tony

905
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,560
Slattery they they really loved 
him coming out and he was he was

906
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,600
charming to work with but you 
know he's had his ups and downs 

907
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:04,400
in life so he's he's you know he
was adored for his comedy and 

908
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,640
his rudeness on the on the telly
but also for his you know he was

909
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,640
he was kind of sexy you know for
men and women all fell in love 

910
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:15,160
with him and and they're still 
in love with him on you know he 

911
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,720
comes on stage now but even 
split his trousers on stage in 

912
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,200
the in the theatre and he'd done
that on television. 

913
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,600
You know, 20 years before. 
So what? 

914
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,120
What it is with him in trousers,
I don't know. 

915
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,680
Well, he he showed his backside 
on television in that sitcom. 

916
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,400
What's it called? 
It was a Jimmy Mulville sitcom. 

917
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:39,560
Oh, yes, yeah, but but this is 
just, this is, this is just not 

918
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,920
wearing very, very many clothes 
and and what you I was wearing 

919
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,440
split. 
So we did it on stage, he said. 

920
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,960
Oh, Clive, I've done it again, 
as though, as though this 

921
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,480
happened every night or this 
happened this afternoon with us 

922
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,760
or something. 
But this is a reference to, you 

923
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,840
know, 20 or 30 years before. 
It just happened to be honest. 

924
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,960
I I no, I love. 
I love him. 

925
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,760
I love all of them. 
You know Merton and Sandy 

926
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,160
Toksvig as well. 
She was great. 

927
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:11,480
Yes, yes. 
As I say, the people who can do 

928
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,280
it, do it. 
And so there was a time when 

929
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,840
well of course as no doubt you 
know and your listeners know the

930
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,640
the the British people who do 
improvisation, I wish they're 

931
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,720
quite a lot but there's a little
a band of them the Comedy Store 

932
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:30,880
players were doing it every, you
know once a week in those days 

933
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,600
in the in the Comedy Store and 
they've largely still are. 

934
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,840
I mean some of the some of the 
people have changed around a 

935
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,360
bit. 
But you know Josie Lawrence, she

936
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,600
must have done thousands of 
performances, thousands of. 

937
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,760
And the only differently with 
her when doing in the huge line 

938
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,720
format where I have to sort of, 
you know, to give me something 

939
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:52,520
to do, I have to sort of take 
the suggestion and hand it on. 

940
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:53,880
But she only differently with 
her. 

941
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:55,360
She'll she'll say no, I don't 
want to do that. 

942
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,840
I, you know, I did that last 
week or that's on YouTube. 

943
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,360
But I don't want to do that 
again. 

944
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,480
You've got to get something 
different because. 

945
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,880
So I don't know how she manages 
to find audiences who can come 

946
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,680
up with enough different things 
to suggest that she does because

947
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,440
she doesn't want just to trot 
out a song that she's gotten her

948
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,280
head from having improvised it 
15 years ago, which a lot of 

949
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,120
people will be happy to do. 
She wants to do a new thing. 

950
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,320
Yeah, yeah. 
Bear that in mind. 

951
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,040
If you're ever in the audience 
with Josie, don't shout out 

952
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,040
anything she's ever done before,
which since that covers almost 

953
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,040
everything, you have to be 
something that's just been 

954
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,200
invented this week and and see 
if she can cope with it. 

955
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,560
OK. 
I just want to cycle back 

956
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:41,080
briefly. 
You said about writers on panel 

957
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,520
shows and things like that that 
get called consultants or. 

958
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,480
Yeah or whatever. 
And of course there's there's a 

959
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,560
point to this Clive, I'm just 
thinking I'm sorry, I haven't a 

960
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,040
clue for for for years and years
and years had a program 

961
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,680
consultant called Ian Patterson 
who basically who wrote all the 

962
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,360
rather off color lines for Humph
to deliver. 

963
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,640
Yes. 
And of course two of the major 

964
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,920
performers in in Clue were 
Graham Garden of course. 

965
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,160
And and and Jeremy. 
Jeremy Hardy. 

966
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,720
Yeah. 
And a show that you were 

967
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,240
involved with, which I loved and
it was, I think it only had two 

968
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:21,920
series If I Ruled the World, 
which yes, Jeremy and Graham as 

969
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,800
opposing team captains and it 
was like a a political comedy 

970
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,880
panel show, wasn't it? 
Yeah, it was. 

971
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,720
It was an interesting structure,
I think. 

972
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,320
I think it may have been Richard
Osmond's idea. 

973
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,320
He certainly working for Hatcher
at the time working on that 

974
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:37,400
show. 
You know Richard Osman is a 

975
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,640
great does everything now but he
was young and he was only he was

976
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,480
only 6 foot 8-9 tall at the time
so quite quite quite young and 

977
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:50,360
small but anyway it was it was a
it was a slightly complicated 

978
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,040
idea to get but once you've got 
it so it was a it was a 

979
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,320
fictional world in which Graham 
and Jeremy were politicians and 

980
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,880
again 2:00 we'd have two 
different people to come on 

981
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:08,160
every week and the and we then 
do do it like Question Time but 

982
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:12,760
they had to act like politicians
and it I'm the the IT was a bit 

983
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,320
sad because Jeremy it suited him
really well because he didn't 

984
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:17,720
always work that well on 
television. 

985
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,080
He's brilliant on radio, on 
stage and everything, but I 

986
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,280
would say this to him when he 
was alive, he was, you know, he 

987
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,880
had a sort of slightly odd way 
of looking slightly off camera 

988
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,520
when he was on television, which
didn't always work in in other 

989
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,880
shows. 
But he's worked perfectly for 

990
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,600
this because he just looked like
a very shifty politician sort of

991
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,680
looking around thinking of 
something to say. 

992
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,640
And he was very funny doing 
that. 

993
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,440
Graham Garden was very funny, 
obviously slightly older, but 

994
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,240
but again had that sort of the 
gravitas of somebody who speaks 

995
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:50,160
in a in a conventional 
establishment, he kind of voice.

996
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,080
And then different people came 
on. 

997
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,240
Some got the idea better than 
others. 

998
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,400
I'm just trying to think of his 
name. 

999
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,440
Who's the the guy who was a 
political great? 

1000
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,200
He's called John. 
He was on Strictly Come Dancing 

1001
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,520
and John Sargent, he was sorry, 
forget his name. 

1002
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,840
But John Sargent was brilliant 
when he came out because he'd 

1003
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:12,000
had years of interviewing 
politicians, so he knew exactly 

1004
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,400
their cadences. 
Anyway, it worked. 

1005
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,600
You know when you do a show like
that you you never know it's 

1006
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,760
going to work or not. 
So you do a series and then you 

1007
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,080
get a second series. 
That is the only endorsement 

1008
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,880
that really means anything. 
It means oh right, it's good 

1009
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,160
enough. 
I can't remember now why it then

1010
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,080
stopped after 2 two series. 
I don't. 

1011
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:33,200
I don't remember being aggrieved
that it was roaring away so 

1012
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,280
well, or I certainly don't 
remember it failing or the 

1013
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,280
audience figures failing, where 
I think that there was probably 

1014
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,560
something either very simple 
that it wasn't good enough or 

1015
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,240
very complicated and it didn't 
fit in with you. 

1016
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:48,640
You never know somebody who 
commissions a program then 

1017
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,160
leaves the leaves the 
broadcaster and you you lose 

1018
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,400
your champion. 
But I think it was I I enjoyed 

1019
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:56,720
doing it. 
It was a slightly different 

1020
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,400
thing for me to do. 
We and it was great working with

1021
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:03,440
well Jeremy as well but you know
Graham Garden was you know 

1022
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,400
having we've started this 
conversation. 

1023
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,000
I'm sorry I read that again. 
He was one of the stars of that 

1024
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,480
one of the writers of that and 
he's a really great guy he's he 

1025
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,120
can be quite quiet in on panel 
games and and things that he's 

1026
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,080
on. 
But every now and then whatever 

1027
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,880
he says it's always brilliant. 
So we you are raking up an 

1028
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,120
unhappy memory. 
It wasn't in my mind but you 

1029
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,720
think Oh yeah that's a shame 
that we didn't do. 

1030
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,440
I think you could have done a 
few more series, but maybe it 

1031
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,240
was. 
Maybe it was just required a 

1032
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:34,240
little bit too much imagination 
on behalf of the audience, so it

1033
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,360
would have a niche audience who 
would get it. 

1034
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,520
But people stumbling on it might
think what as people tend to 

1035
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,800
these days, you sort of scroll 
around a bit, don't you? 

1036
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,040
They might have thought, oh, I 
don't know, what's this about? 

1037
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:49,840
Is that too like? 
I don't know. 22 opposing team 

1038
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,320
captains saying I couldn't 
disagree more, which is which is

1039
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,720
what they seem to say every that
was one of the the rounds. 

1040
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:56,840
That was one of the rounds, 
wasn't it? 

1041
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,320
And then we took, we took 
questions from the audience 

1042
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,400
which were quite, you know, that
was quite fun, you know, and 

1043
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,120
Graham was always keen to 
develop a sort of running gag 

1044
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,200
that could go from one week to 
another or throughout the 

1045
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,440
program. 
And yeah, it was a good way for 

1046
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,800
Jeremy to be the sort of the 
light hearted comedian in him 

1047
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,800
also combined with a, you know, 
he has that, you know, disdain 

1048
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,640
for lots of politicians as well.
So it it worked well for him. 

1049
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,960
Yeah, there it is. 
These things come and go. 

1050
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,000
I've now come to a realm called 
I couldn't Disagree More. 

1051
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,760
This tests out the politicians 
ability to disagree with the 

1052
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,040
policies of his opponents, 
however reasonable they may 

1053
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:36,680
sound. 
This is for you Graham. 

1054
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,520
So if Jeremy and Richard could 
come up some policies, see if if

1055
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,800
Graham could disagree with them.
We think it's important for 

1056
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,680
young people to practice safe 
sex. 

1057
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:46,520
No, I couldn't disagree more. 
Don't. 

1058
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,240
Don't waste condoms practicing. 
Save them for the real thing. 

1059
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,240
Jeffrey Archer is notoriously 
litigious under very, very nice 

1060
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:04,880
guy. 
Well, you're half right. 

1061
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,680
Bernard Manning is a racist. 
Bernard who? 

1062
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:27,800
Were you annoyed or nonplussed 
or just surprised by the Brass 

1063
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,960
Eye sketch in which it claimed 
that you'd shot dead? 

1064
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,360
Noel Edmonds. 
No, no, no, no. 

1065
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,320
I didn't shoot at him. 
He killed me. 

1066
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:36,840
Oh, did he? 
Yes. 

1067
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,880
No. 
No, no no no no. 

1068
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:47,280
The the plot of it is I for some
reason having dinner at Doll 

1069
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,520
Leben's house I think in the 
country somewhere. 

1070
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,800
But anyway it doesn't mean that.
And at some point he kills me 

1071
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,920
And then so they interrupt the 
whatever the you know their 

1072
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,840
their pretend programme is going
on which they interrupt with a 

1073
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,680
news flash that I have been 
attacked and then they cut away 

1074
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,520
to I think, I think I can't 
remember how much of this you 

1075
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:11,080
see but he's on the roof with my
head in his hand. 

1076
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:17,200
He's jacked my head off. 
And the yeah, well, I I wrote 

1077
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,640
not in complaint but acknowledge
that it happened. 

1078
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,720
And I said, well, I think I 
thought the only thing that I 

1079
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,920
could as a lawyer that I could 
see might be libelous to me in 

1080
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,800
it. 
The suggestion I was having 

1081
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:31,000
dinner with Noel Edmonds, which 
is a bit harsh on, not 

1082
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,240
impossible. 
And also what was disappointing 

1083
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,480
to me was that it caused no 
furority whatsoever. 

1084
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,080
I mean, it wasn't even, it 
wasn't even the most shocking 

1085
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,040
thing on that episode of that 
programme. 

1086
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,080
And As for, you know, people 
were a bit worried. 

1087
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,360
Some of the people involved was 
sort of slightly apologetic 

1088
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,160
that, you know, I might have, 
you know, members of my family 

1089
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,880
might have been or friends might
have been upset by this, but not

1090
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,840
one. 
I mean, nobody, I had no elderly

1091
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,840
relative ever, you know, 
contacted me. 

1092
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,360
So are you alright? 
I saw that nobody either wasn't.

1093
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:11,400
It was sufficiently obviously 
funny and a comedy or nobody 

1094
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:12,720
cares. 
Nobody cares about me. 

1095
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,360
I can't believe I got it around 
the wrong way for some reason I 

1096
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:17,600
had it in my head. 
It was the other way anyway. 

1097
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,800
Well, look, normally at this 
point I'd say, well, it's 

1098
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,360
probably me because I'm my, my, 
I don't know, my, my own memory,

1099
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,600
very reliable. 
I'm very confident on this 

1100
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:26,160
though. 
Absolutely. 

1101
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,120
I do come up to come back to me 
and kick me off if I'm wrong, 

1102
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,560
Absolutely. 
The world of show business has 

1103
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,400
tonight reacted with sadness and
horror. 

1104
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:36,520
Well, I just heard a rumour 
about it. 

1105
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:38,520
I I don't know what's happened 
at all. 

1106
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,000
Apparently Clive Anderson was 
shot. 

1107
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,760
Clive Anderson was shot by who? 
Not by Noel Edmonds. 

1108
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:47,080
Yeah, what? 
I'd say there's no excuse, none 

1109
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,640
whatsoever. 
And if Edmonds is still inside 

1110
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,480
the house? 
Well, just shoot him. 

1111
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,840
I mean, people like me, we're 
supposed to be Rascals, but it's

1112
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:01,440
your Edmonds, your Thomas 
Hamilton's, your anger for Guy. 

1113
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,400
Also called Nice People. 
They ought to shoot him off the 

1114
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:05,760
roof as quickly as possible, 
yes. 

1115
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,800
And there'll be an update at 
11:30 after our next scheduled 

1116
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,000
program. 
It seemed to me the obvious 

1117
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,360
casting or replacement for Angus
Dayton on Have I Got News For 

1118
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,880
You would have been you as 
permanent host. 

1119
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,120
Yes, well, I did do it once. 
I was the host once. 

1120
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,040
I thought. 
I did pretty well, I thought. 

1121
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,800
But they didn't be back on as a 
guest. 

1122
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,560
Which Boris hosted. 
Yes. 

1123
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:39,400
My, the the sequence of of how 
when I did it though that that 

1124
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,320
was early on he did the one, the
one I always say to Angus, he's 

1125
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,520
he is directly responsible for 
Boris becoming Prime Minister 

1126
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,840
because the boost to his career 
came from when he was hosting 

1127
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,080
it. 
And he was quite he was very 

1128
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,840
Boris like when he was doing it 
because he was you know reading 

1129
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,200
out the the auto cue which for 
those links which is all you 

1130
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:00,720
know. 
And he was stumbling on it and 

1131
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,520
saying well what's this about? 
And I asked the producers was is

1132
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,360
he coming late As you know then 
then he's been here all day. 

1133
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,800
He's had all the preparation 
that everyone else has had. 

1134
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,560
He just that's his way of doing 
things. 

1135
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:15,520
He was way of distancing himself
from the jokes and having his 

1136
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,440
own jokes was to pretend he he 
was just reading for the first 

1137
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,560
time. 
But that that obviously appealed

1138
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,760
to the public. 
They thought they wanted a Prime

1139
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,560
Minister like that who was 
stumbling and bumbling his way 

1140
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,960
through things which is 
entertaining but not necessarily

1141
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:33,240
what you need in the crisis. 
But anyway no I've no, I I well,

1142
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,840
I think I was I was happy to you
know present it on one or two 

1143
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,840
occasions. 
But whether I was would be the 

1144
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,080
right person to replace Angus, I
don't know, because you're 

1145
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,280
always trying to move things 
along a bit and I am a year or 

1146
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,960
two older than Angus, so it 
would be a bit of a retrograde 

1147
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,160
step. 
And I am, you know, another 

1148
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,960
Oxbridge voice from that ear, 
that type of comedy. 

1149
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,880
Then probably if they, if they 
were ever going to have a 

1150
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:03,040
permanent host, they probably 
might. 

1151
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:03,680
I don't. 
I don't. 

1152
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:04,920
I'm not. 
Don't mean they've got to have 

1153
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:09,320
to have a, you know, some, you 
know, the change of gender or 

1154
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:11,840
sexuality or whatever. 
But you you might want somebody 

1155
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,320
not quite quite so similar to 
Angus. 

1156
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,840
So maybe you could get somebody 
20 years younger or or from a 

1157
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,720
different part of the country. 
Or Charlie Drake. 

1158
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:28,360
Well, but whatever the the what 
they've also discovered, I hope 

1159
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,320
I'm not being unfair to them. 
They've discovered that if they 

1160
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,960
have a role, you know, different
hosts every week, they can 

1161
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,160
probably get away with taking 
them slightly less than 

1162
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:38,480
somebody's been on there every 
week. 

1163
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,840
So it's probably an economy 
measure and but I I liked it 

1164
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,680
when I thought it was a good 
structure when they had a host 

1165
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,960
in command and two sort of, 
well, certainly Paul Merton is 

1166
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,200
the sort of not naughty 
schoolboy exactly, but sort of 

1167
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,200
bridling against the rules and 
the structure. 

1168
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,920
And then you know Ian obviously 
brings his own level of 

1169
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:00,760
knowledge. 
You know you know intelligence 

1170
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,160
and and information to it and 
then you can you can make fun of

1171
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,120
or play around with the the 
guests. 

1172
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:11,080
But of course sometimes some 
weeks I'm I'm not an expert 

1173
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,760
anymore on the programme but you
know some weeks the host is kind

1174
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:16,560
of the butt of the joke and 
other weeks they're just quite 

1175
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:17,840
good. 
They're good but they still 

1176
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:22,120
haven't got the the same command
over the show that the permanent

1177
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,400
host has and not quite as it's 
not quite part of the fabric. 

1178
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,760
But anyway, as I say I'm I've 
got my own views about how shows

1179
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,680
all to work, but I'm never, I'm 
not really responsible, I'm not 

1180
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,280
the producer, I'm not in charge.
So anything, any show which is 

1181
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,680
successful, you have to assume 
the people who are doing it know

1182
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:39,440
what they're doing. 
Absolutely. 

1183
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,040
And obviously at the moment 
you're you're still hosting 

1184
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,800
loose ends, I believe on the 
radio, yes, yes, that must be 

1185
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:49,800
pleasurable because it's 
different every week. 

1186
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:51,840
It's. 
Different every week. 

1187
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,520
It's it's at the moment it's 
very different every week 

1188
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:59,600
because part of BBC policy, a 
very firm part of BBC policy at 

1189
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:04,440
the moment, certainly on Radio 
4, is they they don't really 

1190
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,080
like so many things coming from 
London anymore. 

1191
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,200
So there's a very concerted 
effort to take things out of 

1192
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,720
London. 
So for the past at least six 

1193
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,400
months maybe longer we've been 
doing a lot of programmes not in

1194
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,600
London so we go to we've been 
all around. 

1195
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,800
I've just, I've just recorded 
one in Bristol, but we've done 

1196
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:27,120
you know Manchester or Salford 
as they prefer to call it leads 

1197
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:30,320
Vida Hull all over the place, 
which makes a for a slightly 

1198
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,160
different show because you you 
have an audience. 

1199
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:36,160
When we go to places like that 
to establish its locality and in

1200
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:39,840
due course the the production of
the programme is going out of 

1201
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:42,480
London altogether. 
So which is a it's an 

1202
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,360
interesting move for an 
entertainment chat show who've 

1203
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,120
been located in London, one of 
the world's capitals of 

1204
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,520
entertainment. 
But anyway, this is BBC policy, 

1205
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:57,000
so there are changes afoot as we
go ahead from here. 

1206
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,280
OK, OK. 
Well, as as as we look to wrap 

1207
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:06,080
up, I just wanted to just finish
off with a how can I bring this 

1208
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:06,560
in? 
OK. 

1209
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:10,120
It it used to be a running joke 
on this podcast that there's a 

1210
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:15,040
handful of of goon related 
topics or projects which were 

1211
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,720
strictly consigned to the power 
marked Do Not Touch. 

1212
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,640
You know So OK stuff. 
Which stuff? 

1213
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,120
Which for various reasons was a 
questionable taste or quality or

1214
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:26,280
both. 
You know what I mean? 

1215
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,680
Is this a program involving 
Spike and Gilligan? 

1216
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,080
You're. 
Yeah, Well, there you go. 

1217
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:37,160
I mean Spike had had this mid 
70s, it all conceived mid 70s 

1218
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,840
what would you call interracial 
sitcom called The Melting Pot. 

1219
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:42,320
So we're we're never going to 
cover that. 

1220
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,960
OK Harry Secant's calypso album.
We we're never going to cover 

1221
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:46,560
that. 
All right. 

1222
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:53,320
And and and there's a a pretty 
dreadful 1970 BBC Two Boxing Day

1223
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:59,800
special called called Cucumber 
Castle which was a a medieval 

1224
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,440
comedy in which Spike and 
Frankie Howard actually, because

1225
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:05,280
you, you wrote for Frankie 
Howard, didn't you? 

1226
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,520
Yes, yeah. 
Yeah, they they they broke. 

1227
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,040
Both appeared in this this 
program called Cucumber Castle. 

1228
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,760
Do you remember Cucumber Castle 
from Boxing Day 1970? 

1229
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:15,720
Clive by any chance? 
I don't, actually. 

1230
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,840
I'm writing it down, though. 
I feel since I've interviewed 

1231
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,560
Spike Milligan and indeed 
Frankie Howard, I've worked with

1232
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,880
him along with Griffin and 
others. 

1233
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,640
I'm ashamed that maybe research 
was harder in those days because

1234
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:32,240
nowadays you can look up 
anything. 

1235
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,440
And Cucumber Castle? 
It was set in a castle made out 

1236
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,240
of cucumber. 
No, I mean no the the the plot 

1237
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:41,600
was pretty non existent. 
It was a it was a program 

1238
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,840
designed as a showcase for a 
group actually promoting the 

1239
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:48,760
latest LP, and it was built 
around them and. 

1240
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:50,080
Oh, right, like the monkeys, 
but. 

1241
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:50,880
Yeah, basically. 
Yeah. 

1242
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:51,400
Crow. 
Crow. 

1243
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:57,400
It was Crow Barring in like 
evermore ludicrous opportunities

1244
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,120
for them to burst into song. 
You know you know with with 

1245
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,520
sketches in between and Spike 
and Frankie Howard with. 

1246
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,440
But the problem problem was that
the the two, the two principal 

1247
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:11,400
members of the group couldn't 
act for Toffee and clearly 

1248
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,080
seemed to lack any interest in 
the whole production. 

1249
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:19,279
OK, And as without without them,
without those two, without that 

1250
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:23,160
group, Cucumber Castle could 
have been a pretty good 50 

1251
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,680
minute BBC Two comedy. 
OK, yeah. 

1252
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:31,000
So my question to you, Clive, is
why do the Bee Gees always have 

1253
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,920
to spoil things? 
It was the Bee Gees. 

1254
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,479
It was a very clunky way of 
getting to the of the Bee Gees. 

1255
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,359
Yeah, the Bee Gees ruined 
Cucumber Castle. 

1256
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,439
And of course I was going to 
avoid talking about the Bee Gees

1257
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,880
because you get asked all the 
time and I don't want you to to 

1258
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,160
to waste your breath again 
talking about it. 

1259
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,640
But you you've gone on record 
and and said that you regret it 

1260
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,399
a little bit, don't you? 
Is that is that still the case 

1261
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:56,520
or? 
Well, it's one of those 

1262
01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:00,160
questions that you in ordinary 
life, you talk about things 

1263
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,040
quite happily when there's a 
journalist with a notepad or a 

1264
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:08,080
tape recorder these days and 
they say, do you regret the 

1265
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,000
interview with the Bee Gees. 
You're faced with a choice. 

1266
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,080
You are the and I could I could 
go either way on it, really say 

1267
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,760
no, I don't regret it. 
It's provided me with endless 

1268
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:22,439
chance of telling people about 
it and it's maybe memorable or 

1269
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:26,560
you say Oh yeah, I regret oh I 
regret it, you know upsetting 

1270
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:31,720
them and you know both the true 
really I I wasn't a the the 

1271
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,319
awful thing. 
Anybody's not aware of it. 

1272
01:09:33,319 --> 01:09:37,240
They the Bee Gees walked out of 
the interview which is you know 

1273
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,080
not really the thing you're 
aiming for in a in a an 

1274
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,200
entertaining chat show. 
But at the time I used to try 

1275
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:48,640
and make things absolutely as 
funny as possible and and the 

1276
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,240
material you're using is the 
person you're interviewing. 

1277
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,080
And I thought they were up for a
bit of a laugh. 

1278
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,200
And I I wasn't really trying to 
be harsh to them. 

1279
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:01,400
I was just trying to get a lot 
of rapid fire laughs and jokes. 

1280
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:05,800
But I misjudged it on a variety 
of different levels and they 

1281
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,960
judged it as Solis. 
Barry judged it as something up 

1282
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,680
with which he would not put and 
he got up and left taking the 

1283
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,240
other two with him. 
So it was quite dramatic and 

1284
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:21,160
distressing at the time and the 
time I felt it was possibly they

1285
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,520
had hadn't got much of A sense 
of humour and I think that was 

1286
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:28,880
what at least half the people 
you know watching it all 

1287
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:33,400
thinking about it felt possibly 
as time has gone by the the 

1288
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:36,440
percentages have gone against me
and I think now it looks it sort

1289
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:40,680
of looks worse from the from the
perspective of time and it was 

1290
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:46,520
it comes across as just a uppity
rude host winding up three of 

1291
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,760
the most talented music makers 
the world has ever produced. 

1292
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,360
But there was there was a number
of points that I had I wasn't 

1293
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:58,120
really realising how I was 
stamping on sensibilities and 

1294
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,880
but but anyway it was it was it 
was an odd it was an odd 

1295
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,520
experience and part of the I'm 
not offering as an excuse but 

1296
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,920
what was odd about is that I'd 
already recorded a whole program

1297
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,040
and they were a pre record for 
the next week so the audience 

1298
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,800
was in a very upstate so was I. 
They had come. 

1299
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,560
I hadn't spoken to them 
beforehand but they I understood

1300
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,840
they were fans of shows of mine,
So I thought, oh, so I was 

1301
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,080
probably going up, you know, 
quicker and fuller speed than I 

1302
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,000
would have done, expecting it to
be fantastic and how wrong I 

1303
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,240
was. 
Never meet your heroes, Bee 

1304
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,640
Gees. 
I remember watching it on 

1305
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,480
Transmission. 
Is that the Yes? 

1306
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,880
Yeah, And just being open 
mouthed because you just didn't 

1307
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,200
see stuff like that on. 
TV Did you? 

1308
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:42,360
No. 
Did you see it? 

1309
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,560
Not knowing that it was gonna 
happen, Did you? 

1310
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,360
Yeah, right. 
No no that's good because it's 

1311
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,960
so difficult to to get. 
I if I can just allied the 

1312
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,760
conversation slightly and we we 
don't have time to over 

1313
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,800
overburden this podcast with it 
but I I did a more happier thing

1314
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:02,000
when I did the thing with Peter 
Cook where Oh yes all different 

1315
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,200
characters and and I'm very 
pleased with that because I I 

1316
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,840
was me because my suggestion 
that he did it and I got it 

1317
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,120
organised and and we did it and 
but then but the other thing 

1318
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:16,560
about it is that I don't put it 
out pre publicity this week 

1319
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,360
there's a special edition or do 
you know all the characters can 

1320
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,440
be played by Peter Cook. 
No, let people see this judge is

1321
01:12:23,440 --> 01:12:25,440
a bit weird. 
He looks a bit like Peter Cook 

1322
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,640
and we should write to be like 
and then the next person who 

1323
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:29,960
come. 
I don't know football manager 

1324
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,640
wherever the next one was. 
Oh, he also oh of course it's 

1325
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:34,080
Peter Cook. 
It's Peter Cook all the way 

1326
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,320
through and what what do you do?
For a little I'm a quality 

1327
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:40,480
controller in a leading biscuit 
factory. 

1328
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,840
It is my job to test biscuits 
for combustibility, yes? 

1329
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:49,360
And I I do this by biting into 
them. 

1330
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,560
Yes, tasting them for flavour 
and texture. 

1331
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,360
Fair enough. 
And if the biscuit is 

1332
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,960
satisfactory, I allow another 4 
million to go by. 

1333
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,520
It's. 
Yeah, I haven't tested this. 

1334
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,680
No, no, I'll take that one on 
trust. 

1335
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,360
Now this, now, this is, where do
you do this biscuit test? 

1336
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:08,000
Where do you? 
Where do you? 

1337
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,440
Live Ipswich, Ipswich area 
Environs of Ipswich, right. 

1338
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,680
It's a popular area, apparently.
It's very quiet. 

1339
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,280
It nestles in a little valley 
where we live. 

1340
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:23,320
We're surrounded by countryside 
and we have a small garage. 

1341
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:28,000
Yes, I didn't want so. 
And the same with the Bee Gees. 

1342
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,800
It was already a story in the 
papers before it had happened. 

1343
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,720
So it meant that some people 
come in and say Oh yeah, what's 

1344
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,080
going to happen? 
But I think it would be more 

1345
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:39,760
objective, sort of looking at 
the programme. 

1346
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:41,800
If you think, oh this is going 
alright, it's a bit of a laugh 

1347
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,360
here but Oh no, they're going 
well hang on, what? 

1348
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:46,440
What happened there that that I 
felt was what it was like. 

1349
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:49,120
But of course now people watch 
and say, oh, I'm going to watch 

1350
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,160
that programme. 
I love the I love the Bee Gees. 

1351
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,960
You rackle through about 22 then
who's that black car? 

1352
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,200
I never liked him and oh look at
him, he's awful. 

1353
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,040
So I don't. 
I don't think I get quite such a

1354
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,720
fair hearing anymore. 
And I think also the flavour of 

1355
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,200
how people are interviewed on 
television has probably 

1356
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,320
softened. 
I think we're the bits of the 

1357
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:12,400
harsh era when I was doing it. 
Now it's all softened down 

1358
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,080
again, so. 
The, the, the, the, the 

1359
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:19,440
president of the global Bee Gees
fan club issue of fatwa against.

1360
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,440
What I You know, I not that I'm 
aware of because you never know.

1361
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:27,200
I think the good thing is Bee 
Gees fans are in the main I 

1362
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:31,400
think rather lovely people. 
So they well the Bee Gees I mean

1363
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,480
it's a sad story actually the 
the family of them because for 

1364
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,560
you know different reasons you 
know I think their mother was 

1365
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,320
alive when the you know the 
younger brother who died and 

1366
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,880
yeah yeah and then the I mean 
and I well I can only imagine 

1367
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:52,560
her the her whole life 
experience is so extraordinary. 

1368
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,680
You know they've one thing 
another they go to Australia 

1369
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,720
from from in this country and 
the the three of them turn into 

1370
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:03,800
the Super singers but also 
songwriters. 

1371
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,520
You know there's a you know two 
kind of separate skills which 

1372
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,320
they both I'm I'm obviously 
going over the top in my praise 

1373
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:12,440
for the Bee Gees now it's to 
sort of get get me into bee Gee 

1374
01:15:12,440 --> 01:15:15,920
heaven in in due course I mean 
but it but you know it's when 

1375
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,560
you're interviewing somebody 
with any luck you are 

1376
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,600
interviewing people who are big 
stars who are talented people 

1377
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:24,720
and that's if you're going to 
annoy anybody it's a it's a 

1378
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,360
talented person you're going to 
annoy. 

1379
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:30,040
But I've I don't think I've 
annoyed many people quite to the

1380
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:34,560
extent that I annoyed them and 
nobody's ever walked off again 

1381
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:35,880
you know yet if you know what I 
mean. 

1382
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:39,520
So there's always time on loose 
ends for somebody to to dash 

1383
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:41,400
away, Well. 
The last thing I would say is 

1384
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,840
that Robin at least had the the 
good sense not to appear in 

1385
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:46,920
Cucumber Castle. 
Oh, right. 

1386
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,960
OK Oh, well, well, I yeah, 
Robin's. 

1387
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,840
Robin's voice was the most 
interesting one of all of them. 

1388
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:56,080
The extraordinary voice. 
OK, I'm going to look out 

1389
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,320
Cucumber Castle then. 
So I'll be something to be able 

1390
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,440
to mention if I am waylaid by 
Bee Gees fans somewhere that. 

1391
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:05,000
Yeah. 
That they've, they, yeah. 

1392
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:07,400
It stinks. 
They stink. 

1393
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:10,160
Clive, listen, I've taken up so 
much of your time. 

1394
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:13,880
Thank you so much and. 
Well, I'm sorry, but I probably 

1395
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:17,280
LED you on more of a ramble than
most interviews tend to be. 

1396
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,240
But we, I think we've flown off 
in different. 

1397
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:22,400
Directions Oh if, if if you 
listen to random episodes of 

1398
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:23,920
this. 
I love to take things off on 

1399
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:25,880
tangents and rambling. 
Oh, good, I'm like that. 

1400
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,480
Myself, so so I just mentioned 
at the top of the show that you 

1401
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,160
you, you have a podcast as well,
which is my 7 Wonders. 

1402
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,920
Yes, I get AI, get a guest on to
talk about the they have to 

1403
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:38,840
identify the seven wonders of 
their world. 

1404
01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:42,480
So sometimes I do that like 
this, you know, down the line, 

1405
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:46,200
sometimes in a little studio, 
but quite often now in, you 

1406
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,560
know, with a live audience. 
So which is, yeah, adds a 

1407
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,000
different it's very good and 
flavour to it. 

1408
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:52,920
Have you got another series 
coming up because I think you 

1409
01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:56,000
last year was the last. 
Batch we did. 

1410
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:59,240
We did some in Edinburgh last 
year, which is quite an 

1411
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,680
efficient way of doing it. 
And I've got a a few dates 

1412
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,760
coming up arranged, you know 
throughout the spring and 

1413
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:09,280
summer, you know in places 
around the country. 

1414
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:12,640
So we're trying out that. 
We've done some in the Central 

1415
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:15,200
of London but we're doing, you 
know these various theatre 

1416
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,640
dates. 
So there's no point me trying to

1417
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:21,560
just plug the dates now if in 
course of this conversation. 

1418
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,520
But they if anybody wants to see
them, they can see them live if 

1419
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,800
it happens to be near them. 
Or they'll we go out online 

1420
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,480
eventually in the usual way. 
Very good. 

1421
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:35,040
Well, Clive, listen, thank you 
so much as I say and and all the

1422
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,560
best with, with, with, with the 
podcast, all the best with loose

1423
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,680
ends and every other project 
that you're engaged with and 

1424
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:41,680
thank. 
You thank you very much. 

1425
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:43,040
Yes. 
So we've got plenty of projects 

1426
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,680
on the go to keep and the 
woodland dashing around. 

1427
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,480
Woodland Trust, of course, 
because you're involved with 

1428
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:49,720
that quite. 
Yes, I'm president of Woodland 

1429
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:52,160
Trust, so you don't have to come
and see me perform. 

1430
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:56,440
You can just plant a tree in my 
in my honour and then the planet

1431
01:17:56,440 --> 01:17:58,840
may be saved. 
In addition to anything else. 

1432
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:00,520
Yeah, great. 
Silence. 

1433
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:11,560
Silence for his emergency. 
The King of Cucumber My friend, 

1434
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:19,040
my cucumber and I welcome you to
Cucumber Castle. 

1435
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:20,240
Do you mind speaking louder?