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I. 
Don't know why they never made 

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another Spike series. 
Maybe that the BBC had decided 

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that Spike had had a long run of
material and he just needed to 

4
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be rested while they gave 
someone else the opportunity to 

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do. 
I don't really know, You'd have 

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to ask. 
The executives. 

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But it was rather sad that we 
never did another show. 

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End of pod, one pod, metal. 
If you see Pod, tell him. 

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00:01:06,910 --> 00:01:11,110
Two Pod four children. 
Oh, hello, You find me trying to

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come up with a suitably punning 
title for this week's edition of

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Goombod. 
It's My guest is the comedy 

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writer Andrew Marshall. 
Regular listeners will recall 

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that in February I spoke to 
Andrew's erstwhile writing 

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partner, David Renwick. 
Both had written for Spike 

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Milligan in the 80s. 
In fact, they became very good 

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friends with Spike and would 
socialize with him over the 

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years. 
So obviously I was keen to talk 

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to Andrew about his memories of 
Spike as well as talk about his 

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career in general. 
Later in the conversation, we 

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touch on Alexi Sales stuff to 
2.4 Children, Health and 

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Efficiency Wilt. 
And also Douglas Adams and John 

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Lloyd. 
Something for everyone. 

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Hope you enjoy the conversation.
Oh, and by the way, I think I'm 

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going to go with whoops, 
Apocalypse. 

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How does that sound? 
I'm sod you then. 

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I've never been that interested 
in myself as a person. 

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I guess it's just it's the work 
that motivates me, you know, not

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the. 
It's it's probably an absolute 

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curse these days because I I 
probably ought to be far more 

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self promoting, but I just it's 
just not in me and I'm not that 

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kind of person for some reason. 
I'm a quiet sort of person, you 

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know. 
Good. 

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So am I. 
Do you think, oh, I nearly said 

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Prince. 
Do you think King Charles 

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listens to it? 
Well, I have. 

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I'm still waiting for my 
knighthood. 

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I have. 
It began as I thought, you know,

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before. 
The Queen died, I thought. 

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Wouldn't it be a great coup to 
get Prince Charles on? 

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Yeah, I mean, how the hell do 
you, you know, make contact and 

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all that? 
But wouldn't it be great? 

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And then he became king. 
And you know, he's got no time 

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now. 
So. 

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That ain't gonna happen. 
I have tried to broaden it out 

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so it's not just about the goons
as such. 

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I like it to. 
I like to talk about comedy in 

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general, of a certain vintage 
right up to. 

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The 90s, I suppose. 
We. 

49
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Tend to talk when it stopped 
being funny, basically. 

50
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Yeah, Yeah, from 1999 onwards. 
Yeah, that would be exactly the 

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point I would. 
Went to 2.4 children end. 1999 

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there. 
You go. 

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But I so, yeah, we, I encourage 
talk. 

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Yeah. 
General conversation about 

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comedy in general and all that 
sort of thing. 

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And so thank you very much for 
coming on because I appreciate. 

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You didn't really do a lot of 
work with Spike Milligan, but 

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I'd just like to to talk about 
your, your influences and the 

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work you did do with him. 
And I know that because 

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obviously I've had David on 
previously and you know he did 

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talk quite a bit about the, 
there's a lot of it about and 

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the sort of the the fact that 
the two of you didn't get a lot,

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you wrote a lot, but a lot of it
wasn't used I believe. 

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I think that's that's often the 
case though in in in when, you 

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know when we were contributing 
sketches to shows, quite often 

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you'd write a lot of, I think we
did write at one point some 

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Morgan and Wise sketches and not
a single one was ever used, 

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right. 
I think at one point at the very

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early stage it was going to be 
called Q10 because there was 

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talk about a sort of head with 
false eyelashes on that was the 

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cute hand or some such thing, 
but it eventually, I don't know 

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who. 
Who gave it the title is a 

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little bit. 
I don't think it was Spike. 

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It's probably the BBC management
or something. 

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But it really has got to have a 
sensible title this year. 

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I don't have all this cue knots.
It only took the 13 years to 

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decide on that. 
Yeah, there's a lot of it. 

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About was was the sort of the 
last knockings of Spike's TV 

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sketch career, I suppose, wasn't
it? 

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Yes, yes, I think we managed to 
kill it off pretty adequately. 

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And so. 
Scrolling right back, because I 

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guess you were you were just a 
bit too young for the goon show.

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But I yeah, the my for well, in 
a way. 

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I mean, my first encounter would
be with the Tele goons, which I 

85
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I think came out when I was 
around 10 or something like 

86
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that. 
Well, they they've literally 

87
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just last week celebrated the 
60th anniversary. 

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So it was 60 October 63. 
So I would have been. 

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I would have been nine and even 
younger, Yeah. 

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And. 
I absolutely loved that. 

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And in fact, I only recall this 
the other day. 

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I totally forgot about it. 
My mother made me an Eccles sort

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of doll all. 
Right. 

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I wish I still had it. 
It was a very, very good 

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rendition of the one on the 
television. 

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Then later I think, I think when
I was around elevenish. 

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They repeated a selection of 
goon shows on what was then the 

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home service, and I remembered 
listening to them with my dad, 

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who was an enormous fan of the 
Goon show. 

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You know, it was, it was very 
much his kind of humour. 

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And I was actually, I was 
talking to Rob Grant, my current

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writing partner today, and he 
said his dad was an enormous fan

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of the goon shows. 
I know what this I don't know 

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whether that's significant or 
not. 

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But we listened them, we 
listened to them together, you 

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know, I think they were quite 
late at night, so I think it was

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allowed to stay up. 
And you know, they were very, 

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very funny. 
And we had in our house, we had 

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two or three of the goon LP's, 
the BBC had filleted the music 

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out of the shows. 
You probably, we do know this 

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already. 
Everybody does is listening to 

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this. 
And and and condense them down 

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to just the dialogue. 
And I think we had I think three

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of them. 
So there were certain episodes 

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that I I'd heard like 600 times 
because. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
In those days you had about 12 

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records and you just used to 
play them over and over and 

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over. 
Again, so that would be Ted. 

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Tales of Old Dartmoor, probably.
The Scarlet Capsule, probably. 

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It tells Old Dartmoor, yes, and 
I think China's story. 

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Was. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

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Yeah, and of course. 
I could be wrong in this. 

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I'm not quite sure. 
Didn't Jack Jackson use bits of 

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them on his show? 
He was very, very skillful and 

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interesting, just to a sort of a
sort of precursor to Kenny 

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Everett in a way. 
And he would use bits of comedy 

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records and sort of interact 
with them by clever tape 

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editing. 
Later, later taken up by Adrian 

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Just. 
Yes, and and and Victor Lewis 

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Smith, I suppose. 
That's that's the that's the 

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that's the lineage of all that. 
But my my dad was also an 

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enormous fan of Jack Jackson and
the BBC only hold 2 Jack Jackson

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shows in their Alcoholics which 
when my father was very, very 

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ailing and they very kindly gave
me the two episodes that they've

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got so I could play them too. 
Very sweet. 

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Just on that you say there's 
only they only hold 2 but. 

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Things are turning out all the 
time that the thought lost just 

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this week and I and I completely
I had no intention of mentioning

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this today, but you've just made
me think of it. 

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Are you aware of the fact that 
in the in the mid 50s on 

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Hancock's half hour, Tony 
Hancock did a runner? 

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Yes, and and for three episodes 
or two episodes. 

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With Harry, seek him. 
Harry seek him. 

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And then there was a third 
episode when when Hancock 

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returned and Harry came back in 
and there was a gave Hancock an 

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opportunity. 
Via the The Show to thank Harry.

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Yes. 
And that's just been. 

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Turned, been turned. 
That's just turned up, which is 

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brilliant news. 
So really looking forward to 

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hearing that when it's all. 
I mean, I've I've got a lot of 

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old reel to reel tapes of of 
radio shows I recorded when I 

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was quite young, but 
unfortunately I haven't got a 

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real tape recorder that works 
anymore, so we'll never be able 

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to retrieve those tapes 
unfortunately. 

155
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But just sort of bringing us 
back to the subject. 

156
00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:08,070
Again, sorry, yes. 
I think I'm right in saying the 

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first joke I ever sold to TV was
on the Harry Secombe show. 

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It wasn't a very good joke. 
It was simply someone saying, 

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and now the long range weather 
forecast, and it cut to a 

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picture of Harry Secombe 
standing a very long way away, 

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00:09:22,390 --> 00:09:25,990
shouting rain. 
That's funny. 

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00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:31,560
Still relatively funny. 
And not bad for about, I must 

163
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have been about 13 or something.
When I said, oh, wow, so OK, 

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right. 
So if you were born in the mid 

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50s, you'd have been the right 
age for Flying Circus. 

166
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Perfect age of Flying Circus, 
which is. 

167
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,360
Yeah. 
And obviously, I guess, sorry, 

168
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I'll read that again a bit 
earlier. 

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Was that all an influence as 
well on? 

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00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:50,600
You. 
Oh, yes. 

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00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:57,880
We used to listen to, I mean on 
Sunday in in the 60s when I was 

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sort of you know. 
A young, you know, a middle, 

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00:10:03,290 --> 00:10:05,690
middle child of about 10 or 
something. 

174
00:10:07,130 --> 00:10:11,490
There was never any television 
wasn't on during the day and 

175
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every Sunday lunchtime there 
would be a comedy show. 

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00:10:14,650 --> 00:10:19,330
It would very often be around 
the hall or the Clitheroe kid or

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00:10:19,330 --> 00:10:23,050
something like that. 
And we used to, you know, as a 

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00:10:23,050 --> 00:10:25,850
family, we would always listen 
to those and you know, they, 

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00:10:25,850 --> 00:10:30,920
they were an enormous. 
Motive for me starting to write 

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company which I I think I'm 
right in saying I started about 

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00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:41,200
11 sending things to to TV and 
and radio and eventually I used 

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to to sell kind of like little 
what we used to call quickies to

183
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:53,120
to to TV and. 
Weekending. 

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00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,440
And later, no, no weekending 
came much later when I went. 

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00:10:58,190 --> 00:11:05,590
When I was about when I was 18, 
I came to London to train to to 

186
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:08,590
to teach maths at Borough Rd. 
College in Hounslow. 

187
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:12,830
And then I was free to cut 
lectures on a Friday and go into

188
00:11:12,830 --> 00:11:17,390
weekend my weekend. 
But previous to that, when I was

189
00:11:17,390 --> 00:11:22,110
at home in Lowestoft, I'd 
written jokes and quickies for 

190
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:25,910
the precursor to That's Life, 
which is called Braden's Week. 

191
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:28,410
Yep. 
And I used to send those in 

192
00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:30,650
weekly and they would, they 
would very often be down. 

193
00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:34,330
I was actually, you know, I was 
actually running comedy at a 

194
00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:37,930
very, very early age. 
So I've been doing it. 

195
00:11:38,010 --> 00:11:41,050
I reckon I've been doing it for 
something like 57 years. 

196
00:11:41,050 --> 00:11:43,850
I think I calculated the other 
day actually selling it, you 

197
00:11:43,850 --> 00:11:46,330
know. 
And making decent money or just?

198
00:11:46,570 --> 00:11:47,330
Pocket. 
Yeah, you. 

199
00:11:47,410 --> 00:11:49,530
Well, you used to make a 
reasonable amount of money. 

200
00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:52,390
In fact, I. 
At one point, just just hopping 

201
00:11:52,390 --> 00:11:55,630
on the weekending, I wrote so 
many next week's news lines that

202
00:11:55,630 --> 00:11:57,750
they had to make me editor at 
the end because they were just 

203
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:59,350
spending too much money on me 
that. 

204
00:12:02,510 --> 00:12:05,910
But so when you're at 11/12/13 
and you were writing comedy. 

205
00:12:07,420 --> 00:12:09,140
What did your friends at school 
think of this? 

206
00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:10,540
Did they? 
Were you? 

207
00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:12,220
Were you getting them to act it 
out? 

208
00:12:12,220 --> 00:12:14,700
Were you doing putting on plays?
Were you doing anything like 

209
00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:15,980
that? 
No, no, I never did anything 

210
00:12:15,980 --> 00:12:17,940
like that. 
I don't, I don't know that they 

211
00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:20,460
even knew, to be honest. 
I mean, they might have known. 

212
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:22,700
I don't really. 
I don't really recall terribly. 

213
00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:27,500
It was a very long time ago, a 
very young boy at the time. 

214
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:31,180
So I think my parents thought I 
was a bit strange, really. 

215
00:12:31,980 --> 00:12:34,980
But you know, you have to 
remember at that time. 

216
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,880
There was really no way of 
getting into comedy other than 

217
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,360
being a writer. 
You couldn't really, you weren't

218
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,400
really allowed to perform your 
comedy because acting was a 

219
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,400
closed chop, weren't allowed to 
direct your comedy because TV 

220
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,120
was a closed chop. 
And for someone you know, my dad

221
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,680
was a bricklayer and my mum 
worked in Marks and Spencer's. 

222
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,240
And for someone with my 
background, you know, who hadn't

223
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,160
gone to Oxbridge, there were 
very few ways into. 

224
00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:05,380
You know one's chosen 
profession. 

225
00:13:05,380 --> 00:13:09,780
It was quite a difficult, you 
know, way to to find a door into

226
00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:12,060
it. 
Did did you harbor any 

227
00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:15,300
ambitions, though, to be to be 
in front of the camera or or the

228
00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:18,300
microphone or was you did you 
always think, well, I I just 

229
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,220
want to be a writer? 
I think I wanted to be John 

230
00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:23,380
Cleese, you know, around that 
age, OK? 

231
00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:26,180
It's just that, you know, it 
wasn't technically possible. 

232
00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:32,420
I mean, it's taken me. 
You know, 60 years to actually 

233
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:35,580
be a performer and perform my 
own sketches, which we did a 

234
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:37,860
couple of years ago in the 
nether regions that you know. 

235
00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:41,580
And yeah, I have to say, it was 
such a joyous experience to 

236
00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:45,020
finally get to that. 
Point He popped up in Alexis 

237
00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:48,700
Sales stuff, haven't you? 
Yeah, and I I was briefly in 

238
00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:52,460
David's drama series. 
What was it? 

239
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:53,990
Love Soup? 
Love soup? 

240
00:13:55,070 --> 00:13:57,750
Yeah, we're really desperate. 
Which I think we know we are we.

241
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:59,630
Could always wheel out this 
party piece. 

242
00:13:59,870 --> 00:14:02,430
What's this? 
Robbie told the actor who plays 

243
00:14:02,430 --> 00:14:05,590
Moose has the ability to hold a 
belch for 35 seconds from the 

244
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:07,350
source. 
Tragically, we'll get a bigger 

245
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:08,590
laugh on anything we can ever 
write. 

246
00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:10,830
OK, all right, OK, listen, 
listen, listen. 

247
00:14:11,270 --> 00:14:13,990
So she'll just stand there 
staring at him and she waits for

248
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:15,390
him to finish. 
And what does she say? 

249
00:14:15,550 --> 00:14:19,770
She says. 
God, you are unbelievable. 

250
00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:20,850
I didn't know you were an 
atheist. 

251
00:14:21,210 --> 00:14:24,090
Yes, enough with your atheist 
remarks. 

252
00:14:24,090 --> 00:14:26,250
Which is a Quaker I find very 
offensive. 

253
00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:27,970
It's. 
A practicing Quaker. 

254
00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:30,170
It's a. 
Practicing Quaker, I find most 

255
00:14:30,210 --> 00:14:31,210
offensive. 
Yeah. 

256
00:14:31,210 --> 00:14:33,690
You don't think the religious 
heterodoxy might be a little 

257
00:14:33,690 --> 00:14:34,690
taxing? 
Forces. 

258
00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:35,730
What's? 
An atheist? 

259
00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:37,210
It's. 
A Quaker? 

260
00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:40,410
Is that like a posh duck? 
Maybe when I when I've been 

261
00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:44,330
teaching for about a year and I 
think a year at a term. 

262
00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:48,060
I was I I was I was given the 
opportunity to go to London 

263
00:14:48,060 --> 00:14:51,540
Weekend Television as a sort of 
trainee writer and Humphrey 

264
00:14:51,540 --> 00:14:55,500
Barkley in the comedy department
which I took like a short and 

265
00:14:55,500 --> 00:15:01,580
then you know that set me up for
a a future in in in comedy 

266
00:15:01,580 --> 00:15:03,460
writing. 
You know you it was a great job 

267
00:15:03,460 --> 00:15:06,940
because you just hang around and
watch things happening and 

268
00:15:07,580 --> 00:15:09,020
contribute to this, that and the
other. 

269
00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:12,220
And we we you know we were 
making end of part one at the 

270
00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:16,850
time so that's sort of. 
Paid them back a certain amount 

271
00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:20,170
and it was a it was a it was a 
great apprenticeship really. 

272
00:15:20,970 --> 00:15:23,970
You can tell it's very it's 
sprang from Python's loins in 

273
00:15:23,970 --> 00:15:26,930
many ways, I suppose. 
There's a lot of TV parodies and

274
00:15:26,930 --> 00:15:30,970
and and I gather that the first 
series there was kind of a what 

275
00:15:31,450 --> 00:15:33,330
would you call it, A connecting 
thread? 

276
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:37,010
Yes. 
With two two very bland 

277
00:15:37,010 --> 00:15:40,450
characters around whom the 
comedy happened. 

278
00:15:40,810 --> 00:15:43,290
Yes, Norman, Various straight 
man they were called. 

279
00:15:43,650 --> 00:15:44,690
That's right. 
That's right. 

280
00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:48,130
And I can remember, and we're 
probably talking three or four 

281
00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:51,290
years ago watching some some 
episodes of End of Part One. 

282
00:15:51,770 --> 00:15:56,130
And there's so much commentary 
about television and television 

283
00:15:56,130 --> 00:15:57,690
shows in the television 
industry. 

284
00:15:58,130 --> 00:16:02,650
There's a sketch where I think 
it's Denise Coffey is 

285
00:16:02,650 --> 00:16:06,130
auditioning to be the test card 
girl, for example. 

286
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,560
We we had a terrible problem 
with that actually because 

287
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,400
Denise was was sitting there you
know with the clown and the and 

288
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,440
the blackboard and the gag was 
that she you know that was her 

289
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,400
job just to get there still all 
the time whilst various 

290
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,640
orchestra play and we had the 
directors voice over say OK fade

291
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,560
down orchestra one and fade up 
orchestra two and because of the

292
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,090
musicians union rules. 
We weren't allowed to say this 

293
00:16:36,090 --> 00:16:38,570
because you actually literally 
had to have two orchestras. 

294
00:16:39,130 --> 00:16:43,730
Oh geez, just, you know, just 
talking about the closed shop 

295
00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:45,370
games. 
I think it actually had to say 

296
00:16:45,370 --> 00:16:48,130
track one and track two. 
In the end, there were all sorts

297
00:16:48,130 --> 00:16:53,370
of rather bizarre sort of 
Spanish practices like that that

298
00:16:53,370 --> 00:16:56,490
we had to contend with at the 
time. 

299
00:16:57,330 --> 00:17:00,570
So yeah, I know it was like TV 
parodies was called my Bluff 

300
00:17:00,570 --> 00:17:02,690
parody, which I very much 
enjoyed, but. 

301
00:17:02,770 --> 00:17:06,690
There's also things like 
conceits like the the closing 

302
00:17:06,690 --> 00:17:09,650
titles coming in halfway through
the show and things like that. 

303
00:17:09,650 --> 00:17:13,490
That is very Python, I think. 
Was there, Was there a lot of 

304
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:15,930
spike in terms of the Q series 
that went in? 

305
00:17:15,930 --> 00:17:16,970
Yes, yes. 
Spike. 

306
00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:20,290
Yes, of course, yeah. 
And sketches that didn't end and

307
00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:23,170
molded into other sketches and 
all sorts of things like that, 

308
00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:24,010
Yes. 
Yeah. 

309
00:17:24,930 --> 00:17:27,770
And, and and that was kind And 
the part one was kind of an 

310
00:17:27,770 --> 00:17:29,850
unofficial spin off or 
television spin off of the 

311
00:17:29,850 --> 00:17:31,370
Burkas way. 
Yes. 

312
00:17:32,110 --> 00:17:36,510
And I I know that Spike was 
quite impressed by both. 

313
00:17:37,470 --> 00:17:39,310
And look, I don't want to keep 
going back to when I spoke to 

314
00:17:39,310 --> 00:17:42,830
David, but it's just that he 
spoke about how your 

315
00:17:43,150 --> 00:17:45,430
introduction to Spike came about
and he invited you out for 

316
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:48,590
dinner, I believe, in London, 
like an Italian restaurant. 

317
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:53,270
And he said that it was equal 
parts hilarious and baffling. 

318
00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:58,110
David has the advantage of his 
Diaries sort of back and I don't

319
00:17:58,110 --> 00:18:01,280
recall that at all, but. 
OK, no recollection. 

320
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,720
Now we did go out, Spike would 
quite often take us out for 

321
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:11,720
meals in in Hendon to to the to 
the to the Indian restaurant. 

322
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,520
But I don't remember. 
There probably was such a thing.

323
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,800
I just don't recall it at all, 
OK. 

324
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,560
And do you remember much about 
the actual, you know, working 

325
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:21,600
on? 
There's a lot of it about. 

326
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,080
Oh, yes. 
Yes, it was just a great. 

327
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,230
I mean, Spike was. 
You know, I really love Spike. 

328
00:18:29,230 --> 00:18:33,630
He he was a lovely man. 
He he reminded me enormously of 

329
00:18:33,630 --> 00:18:35,590
my father. 
So he's kind of like having a 

330
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:38,910
comedy father in a way. 
He was very, very nice to us. 

331
00:18:39,550 --> 00:18:42,270
He used to invite us to his 
house where we'd have these 

332
00:18:42,270 --> 00:18:47,550
meetings and read through the 
things with Neil Shand he he was

333
00:18:47,550 --> 00:18:52,190
just a very warm and wonderful 
host. 

334
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:54,270
I mean, he was Spike Milligan. 
So there was a lot of 

335
00:18:54,270 --> 00:18:58,830
inconsistency in his character. 
But we had some really great 

336
00:18:58,830 --> 00:19:03,470
evenings there and you know, I, 
I I remember them very fondly. 

337
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:10,590
Who knows why he chose some 
sketches about others. 

338
00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:14,430
I remember 11 interesting sketch
we did, which was a sort of fake

339
00:19:14,430 --> 00:19:18,590
Spike obituary that started one 
of the shows which claimed Spike

340
00:19:18,590 --> 00:19:21,990
had just died. 
I think this came out of Spike 

341
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:26,500
Milligan saying to us once. 
That tone, that tone they use 

342
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,020
when they when someone died, 
they always cut back to the 

343
00:19:29,020 --> 00:19:33,020
studio and the news reader says 
Spike Willigan, who died today. 

344
00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:36,420
I can just hear them saying 
Spike Willigan, who died today. 

345
00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:40,770
And it sort of, you know, we 
wrote that little bit where it 

346
00:19:40,770 --> 00:19:44,010
looks as if he died and then the
still picture room came to life 

347
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:46,050
and started taking its own pulse
and things. 

348
00:19:47,010 --> 00:19:50,890
And I was just, I was amused to 
find in a latest Spike biography

349
00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:53,170
it was actually published at the
beginning of the book as if it 

350
00:19:53,170 --> 00:19:55,410
were a Spike written sketch. 
Was he did he. 

351
00:19:55,450 --> 00:19:57,050
He didn't write any of it at 
all. 

352
00:19:57,050 --> 00:19:59,850
It was actually David, but I I. 
I remember that. 

353
00:19:59,850 --> 00:20:02,850
I remember that sketch and and 
they they they pay tribute to 

354
00:20:02,850 --> 00:20:04,290
Spikes. 
Yeah. 

355
00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:06,050
Did they pay tribute to Spike by
screening? 

356
00:20:06,510 --> 00:20:12,430
Bloody awful George Forbes. 
Yeah, no, he was. 

357
00:20:12,550 --> 00:20:16,790
He was a, he was a, he was an A 
great person to work and fast, 

358
00:20:16,790 --> 00:20:19,030
of course, fascinating as a 
character. 

359
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:24,830
You know, he would have on his 
mantelpiece a sort of notice 

360
00:20:24,830 --> 00:20:28,150
that said we do not smoke 
cancerettes in this house and he

361
00:20:28,150 --> 00:20:30,230
would stand in front of it 
smoking a cigar. 

362
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:32,150
You know, that's kind of pussy 
off. 

363
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,760
Do you know, Do you remember 
when you were there at Spike's 

364
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,240
house one night when he went off
to get something and he came 

365
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,600
back in looking very shaken 
because he just had a phone call

366
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,800
to say Diana Doors had died? 
Yes, I remember. 

367
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,520
That distinctly the thing about 
visiting Spike was you go, I 

368
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,200
expect David has already said 
this, but you go around to his 

369
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,240
house and ring the bell and this
sort of really sad old man would

370
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,840
open the door and say hello 
Andrew, come in and. 

371
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:00,100
You know, he'd be really, really
down. 

372
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:03,100
And during the course of the 
evening he'd sort of like an 

373
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,300
inflating balloon actually 
gradually becomes like really 

374
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:11,940
and become quite funny and and 
fun and so forth. 

375
00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:14,940
You know, would give you funny 
hats to put on or some such 

376
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:19,780
thing, or would show you his 
Indian family albums and all 

377
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:22,980
sorts of things that were 
enormous fun. 

378
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:24,860
Yeah, I remember that, very 
distinct. 

379
00:21:24,860 --> 00:21:26,900
And when he came back, that was 
the end of the evening because 

380
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:30,020
he was very, very, I don't know 
why he was so upset about that, 

381
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:33,500
but maybe Diana Doors was a was 
a friend, I don't really know. 

382
00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:35,900
She was a great, she was a very 
nice woman. 

383
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:39,580
Diana Doors, we did the Bruce 
Forsyth sketch with her once on 

384
00:21:40,020 --> 00:21:42,980
on Bruce Forsyth's big night. 
I always remember this because 

385
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:47,540
it was sort of like, you know, 
where, you know, he used to get 

386
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:50,580
the public to come in and play 
the sort of play and yeah. 

387
00:21:52,530 --> 00:21:58,970
And Bruce Forsyth was playing 
Fagin in it, and somebody had to

388
00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:00,690
play Nancy. 
We went through this whole list 

389
00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:03,930
of people, and we eventually the
only person we could think of 

390
00:22:03,930 --> 00:22:07,650
was dying at all. 
And she came in to read, and 

391
00:22:07,650 --> 00:22:13,810
Bruce was late into rehearsals, 
and so I had to sit there. 

392
00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:18,300
Reading through the script with 
daughters as Bruce Forsyth going

393
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:25,180
tired of my love dancing. 
And The funny thing is knowing 

394
00:22:25,180 --> 00:22:28,420
Bruce Forsyth is going to sort 
of come into the room at some 

395
00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:34,260
point, which he did, and I have 
to, I have to give him credit. 

396
00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:37,500
He didn't bat an island. 
He just came down, sat down and 

397
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:39,700
immediately just took over the 
script from the point. 

398
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,100
I was brilliant. 
I hear he was a very nice man, 

399
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,080
he was. 
An extremely nice brand, great 

400
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,240
person to work with. 
He was very, very good to 

401
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,440
everybody on the team. 
You know, however lowly they 

402
00:22:53,440 --> 00:23:00,040
were, he was, he was absolutely 
a real, really kind and and and 

403
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,800
and not that he wasn't, you 
know, fussy about detail, which 

404
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,240
all good comedians are, you 
know, they check their props, 

405
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,000
they check their lives, and then
they need people to back them up

406
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,000
and get everything right. 
And he would get a little bit 

407
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,440
chippy sometimes if someone was 
a bit incompetent. 

408
00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:16,930
But generally speaking, he was 
an extraordinarily nice man to 

409
00:23:16,930 --> 00:23:20,450
work with. 
Yes, yeah, David said. 

410
00:23:21,890 --> 00:23:24,450
Because I contacted him about 
something else recently and I 

411
00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:25,770
mentioned that I was going to be
talking to you. 

412
00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:28,370
It's probably a couple of a 
while back anyway. 

413
00:23:29,010 --> 00:23:35,330
And he said ask him if he can 
remember the cupboard full of 

414
00:23:35,330 --> 00:23:37,090
vests. 
Yes. 

415
00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:49,660
I have no idea what that means. 
Well, the the previous producer 

416
00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:53,140
of the of the Milligan series 
who I won't name because he was 

417
00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:57,020
also a nice man, Spike 
described. 

418
00:23:57,140 --> 00:24:01,260
Do you know do you know whatever
his name was he what he is, is 

419
00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:03,460
he's a cupboard full of vests. 
That's what he is. 

420
00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:08,380
That was his description of of 
the previous right. 

421
00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:11,260
I I won't say his name, but you 
know, because it's not. 

422
00:24:12,530 --> 00:24:18,730
But you could look it out, yes. 
Good evening. 

423
00:24:19,290 --> 00:24:30,930
Here is the news. 
Unemployment reaches new heights

424
00:24:31,090 --> 00:24:32,970
today. 
Two unemployed men in a 

425
00:24:32,970 --> 00:24:37,130
helicopter reached a height of 
6000 feet in the High Court 

426
00:24:37,130 --> 00:24:39,010
today. 
A judge fell off. 

427
00:24:40,210 --> 00:24:41,810
Misses. 
Time misses. 

428
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:51,980
Stop that. 
Stop that. 

429
00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:53,060
Stop that. 
What do you think you're doing? 

430
00:24:53,060 --> 00:24:54,940
The ortitude. 
Has gone wrong, Julian. 

431
00:24:56,220 --> 00:25:07,580
Gosh, we'll have to go to 
emergency news that Spike is 

432
00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:13,340
returning to the BBCTV has. 
The desired reaction from 

433
00:25:13,460 --> 00:25:18,540
supremo Alastair Milne? 
He is to commit suicide In lieu 

434
00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:23,020
of a golden handshake. 
He is to get a silver kick up 

435
00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:28,420
the ass. 
The thing that I was musing 

436
00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:32,020
about the other day about the 
goons was, you know, we're 

437
00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:36,180
always told history relates that
after the Second World War. 

438
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,160
There was a feeling of, you 
know, we're all in it together 

439
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,040
and we'll all either cooperate 
and and across the classes and 

440
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,440
things and it'll all be 
wonderful and we'll found the 

441
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,640
National Health Service and so 
on and so forth. 

442
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,640
But the Goon Show actually tells
you a very different thing, 

443
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,240
doesn't it? 
It tells you that the office of 

444
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,320
classes are not to be trusted 
yet, which is an entirely 

445
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,380
different sort of angle. 
So maybe that post war consensus

446
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:06,140
wasn't quite as you know people 
describe. 

447
00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:10,980
I wonder, that's a very good 
point and that's why so many, so

448
00:26:10,980 --> 00:26:14,740
many in BBC management at the 
time were so against the goons 

449
00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:16,620
because they were, you know, 
they were officer class 

450
00:26:16,620 --> 00:26:20,860
themselves, they'd been, you 
know, that they took it 

451
00:26:20,860 --> 00:26:24,060
personally, you know, the 
caricature was like blood knock 

452
00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:26,370
and the like. 
Yeah. 

453
00:26:26,370 --> 00:26:29,330
And you get a, of course, you 
get a more detailed and nuanced 

454
00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:33,970
version of it in in Spike's War 
Diaries books. 

455
00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:36,370
Yes. 
You know, the war was a very 

456
00:26:36,370 --> 00:26:39,810
different experience to, you 
know, watching a warm, you know,

457
00:26:40,170 --> 00:26:43,570
a warm movie they made after the
war about the Dam Busters or 

458
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:46,010
something. 
The real war was an entirely 

459
00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:49,730
different thing. 
You know, it was, and I don't, 

460
00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:53,210
actually. 
And I think this is where, you 

461
00:26:53,210 --> 00:26:57,400
know, I think Spike was. 
A very interesting man because 

462
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,520
he, he was a leader in so many 
ways, you know, over the 

463
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,600
environment and over all kinds 
of things. 

464
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:09,360
And, you know, just writing the 
truth about how how it is to be 

465
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,280
in a war, You know, as a, as a, 
as a, as a person. 

466
00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:19,220
It was really interesting that, 
you know, OK, it was cloaked in 

467
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:21,340
comedy. 
But what it was telling you was 

468
00:27:21,340 --> 00:27:23,300
was kind of disturbing, wasn't 
it? 

469
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:27,500
It's, you know, there was a, a a
window into the the actual 

470
00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:31,900
realities of the war that I 
think very few even serious 

471
00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:35,180
books had had had done up to 
that point. 

472
00:27:36,060 --> 00:27:40,340
Yeah, and funny enough, David 
told me that when he and you had

473
00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:44,700
been that Spike's or been out 
for a meal one occasion when you

474
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:49,820
were in Spike's company. 
He told he told you that he'd 

475
00:27:49,820 --> 00:27:52,740
only just found out from one of 
his army friends. 

476
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:58,580
That he hadn't appreciated his 
the the depiction of him in the 

477
00:27:58,580 --> 00:28:00,260
books. 
I can't. 

478
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:02,180
I can't remember what the name 
of the guy was. 

479
00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:04,020
I'm assuming it was Harry 
Edgington. 

480
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:05,020
Harry. 
Edgington. 

481
00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:07,060
That's it, right? 
Gunnar Edgington says. 

482
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:12,820
I'd heard from Gunnar Edgington.
He hated what he hated, what he 

483
00:28:12,820 --> 00:28:15,970
did in the books. 
And I said yes, but what about 

484
00:28:15,970 --> 00:28:19,410
the other people? 
And and we're kind of expecting 

485
00:28:19,410 --> 00:28:24,170
a hilarious end of this story. 
And he said, oh, they hated it 

486
00:28:24,170 --> 00:28:29,450
too. 
They all hate you, but they left

487
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:34,210
it years to tell them that. 
Yeah, that's just funnier. 

488
00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:36,570
I don't, I don't know why it's 
funny because it was Spike 

489
00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:39,090
saying there's some looking 
terribly crystal. 

490
00:28:39,370 --> 00:28:42,090
I don't know whether Spike 
thought you know whether they 

491
00:28:42,090 --> 00:28:44,960
would find it a kind of. 
Interesting tribute to whether 

492
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,280
it would irritate. 
Well, The thing is on the show 

493
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,880
recently we we covered the 
first, the first memoir, which 

494
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,200
is that of Hitler, My Partner's 
Downfall, which which required 

495
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,960
rereading it of course. 
And Harry Edgington comes out of

496
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,880
it very well. 
You know, he's trading jokes 

497
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,720
with Spike. 
You know he in fact in some 

498
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,200
cases he's he's out doing Spike 
on the humor front, if it's 

499
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,360
Spike writing it of course. 
And it's a lot of it is 

500
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,000
obviously. 
Well, how much of what Spy 

501
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,000
writes in that memoir or any of 
the memoirs is is actual 

502
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,640
remembered dialogue? 
You know, it's very. 

503
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,320
Little of it, I should say. 
Little, but still, you know 

504
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,440
what? 
You recall and what you remember

505
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,600
are different things, aren't 
they? 

506
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,080
Yeah, yeah. 
But no. 

507
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,360
He comes out of it very well, I 
felt. 

508
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,760
But I I haven't reread the 
others for many years, so 

509
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:38,560
perhaps perhaps he he writes him
less sympathetically as as the 

510
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,310
books go on. 
Possibly. 

511
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:43,830
I mean, I I don't know really. 
I I just think it's a very funny

512
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:46,830
anecdote. 
What Spike said that then I 

513
00:29:46,830 --> 00:29:49,630
suppose we were probably rather 
cruel to laugh at him, but it 

514
00:29:49,630 --> 00:29:51,510
was kind of, it just was very 
funny. 

515
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:54,790
The fact that it looked, it 
looked like, you know, it's one 

516
00:29:54,790 --> 00:29:56,630
of those stories, it looked like
it was going to end with but 

517
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:59,790
everyone else hilarious, but it 
didn't end like this at all. 

518
00:30:02,390 --> 00:30:04,430
But I don't. 
I don't know really. 

519
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,520
So we've dealt with Spike quite 
a lot and we have Harry, I only 

520
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,000
peripherally knew and and 
Sellers I didn't know at all but

521
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,440
of course you know he's got a 
fantastic body of work to to 

522
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,520
look back on. 
I'm doing, I'm doing a best of 

523
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,200
listeners, top 20 Sellers films 
for the end of the year. 

524
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,680
By the way, do you have a 
particular favorite? 

525
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,200
Well, you know, it's. 
I'm never sure about these lists

526
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,550
because I don't. 
I mean, how can you compare 

527
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:42,710
Chancellor Gardner with, I don't
know, Inspector Cluzer? 

528
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:47,830
They're just entirely different 
levels of, you know, Yeah, yeah,

529
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:51,310
yeah, Ization, aren't they? 
I mean, even in even in Doctor 

530
00:30:51,310 --> 00:30:55,190
Strangelove, you can't compare 
Strangelove with with President 

531
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:57,830
Monthly, can you? 
Again, they're totally different

532
00:30:57,830 --> 00:31:03,390
sort of, angles of. 
So I don't know a favorite. 

533
00:31:03,630 --> 00:31:05,990
You know what do you? 
It's so hard. 

534
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:08,270
What do what criteria are you 
using to? 

535
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:10,950
Well, no. 
My criteria would be of and and 

536
00:31:10,990 --> 00:31:12,590
it's. 
I can easily say my favorite 

537
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:17,190
seller's film is is the one that
I would put on comfort viewing. 

538
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:21,470
One that I consistently enjoy 
from beginning to end, which is 

539
00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:24,670
a shot in the dark, which was 
the 2nd clues, so film. 

540
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:28,870
So, no, I just wondered if you 
had a particular, if there, if 

541
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:33,230
there was one film above all 
others, that of his that stood 

542
00:31:33,230 --> 00:31:37,630
out to you well. 
Is, you know, a Clueso movie is 

543
00:31:37,630 --> 00:31:42,070
best enjoyed in the cinema. 
I can, I can remember going to 

544
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:45,910
see the return of the Pink 
Panther and just being in a 

545
00:31:45,910 --> 00:31:50,630
room, you know, a big cinema of 
people just laughing and 

546
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:52,110
laughing and laughing and all 
these things. 

547
00:31:52,110 --> 00:31:56,020
That's a great experience. 
On the other hand, Doctor 

548
00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:59,540
Strangelove is a very chilling 
piece of work. 

549
00:32:00,740 --> 00:32:02,980
You know, it's it has great 
significance. 

550
00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:08,340
Being there is a fabulous end to
a career. 

551
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:11,420
I know it isn't strictly the end
because there's Fu Manchu. 

552
00:32:11,820 --> 00:32:16,540
Yeah, I mean, even even I have 
to say even Fu Manchu has fun in

553
00:32:16,540 --> 00:32:19,260
it, you know, it's not a 
terrible, it's not a completely 

554
00:32:19,260 --> 00:32:21,460
terrible movie. 
It's not his worst film. 

555
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:27,060
No, not by any means. 
You know, I remember seeing with

556
00:32:27,060 --> 00:32:34,780
my dad the wrong arm of the law 
and two way stretch and the bill

557
00:32:34,780 --> 00:32:39,500
was that was they're a great 
pair of movies, you know, very 

558
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:42,220
enjoyable, but not a huge amount
of depth in the 

559
00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:47,780
characterizations really. 
You know, there were so many. 

560
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:51,290
I mean even. 
Even Sellers in Casino Royale is

561
00:32:51,290 --> 00:32:53,050
interesting. 
You know, it's a kind of 

562
00:32:53,050 --> 00:32:56,930
interesting sort of take on 
James Bond. 

563
00:32:56,930 --> 00:33:02,290
I mean he's he's you know he's 
he's so difficult to pin down in

564
00:33:02,290 --> 00:33:06,370
any one thing isn't it Yeah well
we we he's very he's. 

565
00:33:06,370 --> 00:33:09,570
Very good. 
In Tom Thumb for example, you 

566
00:33:09,650 --> 00:33:13,690
know the fatter sellers. 
Together with Terry Thomas, have

567
00:33:13,690 --> 00:33:16,050
you seen the optimists of Nine 
Elms? 

568
00:33:16,330 --> 00:33:18,410
Yes. 
Yes, I saw it when it came out. 

569
00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:21,250
It's. 
I believe they didn't. 

570
00:33:21,250 --> 00:33:22,850
They want Buster Keaton to do 
that. 

571
00:33:22,850 --> 00:33:24,330
Yeah, they did. 
Wouldn't that have? 

572
00:33:24,330 --> 00:33:28,290
Been fantastic if he had. 
That's just such a regret to me.

573
00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:30,810
I don't think he was too ill by 
that. 

574
00:33:30,970 --> 00:33:35,690
No, I think because we covered 
this, that film last week, by 

575
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:38,330
the way, because it was his 50th
anniversary, right. 

576
00:33:38,370 --> 00:33:43,610
It's great film but I think they
wanted in the end because it was

577
00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:46,730
originally it was in development
hell that film if they called it

578
00:33:46,730 --> 00:33:50,090
that back in the day. 
But you know it took about best 

579
00:33:50,090 --> 00:33:53,930
part of 10 years to get it on 
screen and originally they had 

580
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:57,290
busted Keaton in mind and then 
the studios or whoever the money

581
00:33:57,290 --> 00:33:59,290
men were, they wouldn't they. 
They didn't think he was 

582
00:33:59,290 --> 00:34:04,010
bankable and there was a few 
other people considered and and 

583
00:34:04,010 --> 00:34:07,970
in the end Sellers took it up 
and Sellers does it very well 

584
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:12,050
And and I I said on the show 
that we did on it last week that

585
00:34:12,290 --> 00:34:15,969
I think the optimist of nine 
amps would have been a better 

586
00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:19,350
you know instead of Foo Manchu, 
a better final film because it 

587
00:34:19,350 --> 00:34:21,110
would have coming after being 
there. 

588
00:34:21,110 --> 00:34:23,870
I think it would have kept his 
career quite nicely. 

589
00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:28,389
He he was apparently doing a 
rendition of his father, wasn't 

590
00:34:28,590 --> 00:34:29,270
he? 
Yes, he was. 

591
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:31,150
Yeah. 
Very interesting. 

592
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:34,030
I wonder what it would have been
like if he'd played Fagan and 

593
00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:36,190
Oliver. 
I wonder if he would have been 

594
00:34:36,190 --> 00:34:38,270
better than than Ron Moody or 
not. 

595
00:34:38,469 --> 00:34:42,350
It's a good Yeah, there is. 
What if something like that? 

596
00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:46,989
Well, there's so many films that
he turned down that he probably 

597
00:34:46,989 --> 00:34:50,030
shouldn't have, and films that 
he took on that he shouldn't 

598
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:52,350
have, you know, I think. 
That's inevitable. 

599
00:34:52,350 --> 00:34:54,510
When you're an actor, there's 
always, you know, the ones you 

600
00:34:54,750 --> 00:34:57,150
wished you, the ones you wished 
you hadn't done. 

601
00:34:57,510 --> 00:35:01,510
I mean, Marco Cain had a very 
good, has a very good attitude, 

602
00:35:01,510 --> 00:35:03,750
doesn't it? 
In order to make, you know, four

603
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:06,110
good movies, you've got to make 
20 movies. 

604
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:08,550
That's that's why I always make 
lots of movies. 

605
00:35:08,670 --> 00:35:12,790
And that's that's a house for my
mum that Jaws, Jaws, The Revenge

606
00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:15,040
or whatever it was that bought 
my mum a new house. 

607
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,720
Yeah, no. 
But I think Salah's biggest 

608
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,120
regret in terms of the film that
he regrets turning down was the 

609
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,760
producers. 
I don't know whether he. 

610
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,000
I don't know he's so hard when 
someone well I I didn't think 

611
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,080
anyone else could play Max B 
Alice stock but but Nathan Lane 

612
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,400
plays him perfectly well so I 
don't know who knows Nathan Lane

613
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,390
have you seen the birdcage? 
Yes, isn't that. 

614
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:46,870
I don't know what you think of 
The Bird Cage as a film, but 

615
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:53,270
Nathan Lane in that is one of my
favorite performances ever in a 

616
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:54,310
film. 
That's all I am to. 

617
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:55,590
You. 
Isn't it a meal ticket? 

618
00:35:57,150 --> 00:36:00,430
Never mind about my feelings. 
Never mind about my suffering. 

619
00:36:00,430 --> 00:36:03,750
It's just about your show. 
Not even our show. 

620
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:07,390
Your show. 
I want a palimony agreement, and

621
00:36:07,390 --> 00:36:09,470
I want one now. 
Well, I don't have a palimony 

622
00:36:09,470 --> 00:36:11,430
agreement on me right now. 
Is tomorrow right? 

623
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:13,590
Don't use that tone to me. 
A tone. 

624
00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:17,070
That sarcastic, contemptuous 
tone that means you know 

625
00:36:17,070 --> 00:36:20,230
everything because you're a man 
and I know nothing because I'm a

626
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:21,390
woman. 
You're not a woman. 

627
00:36:21,550 --> 00:36:25,510
Oh you bastard. 
I do. 

628
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:29,630
Everybody take it easy. 
Whatever I am, he made me. 

629
00:36:29,790 --> 00:36:33,070
I was adorable once young and 
full of hope. 

630
00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:39,590
And now look at me. 
I'm a short, fat, insecure, 

631
00:36:39,630 --> 00:36:42,710
middle-aged thing. 
I made you short. 

632
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:47,950
Am I right in thinking it's an 
Elaine May, Mike Nichols? 

633
00:36:47,950 --> 00:36:51,150
Yeah, probably. 
The last collaboration, isn't 

634
00:36:51,150 --> 00:36:52,550
it? 
Probably it would have been, 

635
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:53,190
yeah. 
Yeah. 

636
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:55,350
I mean. 
Well, you've got, you know, 

637
00:36:55,350 --> 00:36:57,230
you've got masters in charge 
there, haven't you? 

638
00:36:57,230 --> 00:36:58,430
So what? 
What can you say? 

639
00:36:58,430 --> 00:37:03,270
Yeah, yeah, No, it's a it's a 
it's a very good piece of work. 

640
00:37:03,390 --> 00:37:06,150
Much. 
You know, I think the musical 

641
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:10,230
had happened by then, hadn't it?
So it was kind of a surprise. 

642
00:37:10,610 --> 00:37:14,330
I suppose whoever, whoever the 
the movie was, it United Houses.

643
00:37:14,330 --> 00:37:16,730
I don't know, probably 
controlled the rights to the 

644
00:37:16,730 --> 00:37:18,890
original French movies but not 
the musical. 

645
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:23,330
Oh, the musical's doing well. 
Let's bring out the non musical 

646
00:37:23,650 --> 00:37:26,730
English. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

647
00:37:26,730 --> 00:37:30,650
No, I have to say Nathan Lane. 
I went to see him in the 

648
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:33,210
Producers in the West End. 
I don't know if you you saw 

649
00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:37,850
that. 
No, but you, there are certain 

650
00:37:37,850 --> 00:37:45,110
people when you see them, but. 
Just radiate a kind of comedy 

651
00:37:46,590 --> 00:37:50,950
nuclear energy that you cannot 
discuss a sort of comedy 

652
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:54,670
charisma. 
I, I, I, Nathan Lane just has 

653
00:37:54,670 --> 00:37:57,110
it, whatever it is. 
When you're in that theater, my 

654
00:37:57,110 --> 00:37:59,990
God, you're aware. 
I tell you what it reminds me 

655
00:38:00,030 --> 00:38:01,470
of. 
I was. 

656
00:38:01,550 --> 00:38:05,900
I was once on holiday in Boston.
And we went out to see if we 

657
00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:09,220
could, in a boat, you know, on 
an organized trip to see if we 

658
00:38:09,220 --> 00:38:12,220
could find a whale, a whale 
watching. 

659
00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:16,540
And we, we sailed off for about 
an hour. 

660
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:24,420
And then suddenly you had this 
terrible feeling that something 

661
00:38:24,420 --> 00:38:27,260
huge was nearby. 
You couldn't see it. 

662
00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:31,340
There was, you know, no water 
flumes or anything. 

663
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,160
But you you there was a 
presence, there was a. 

664
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,360
Presence of this huge object. 
And not long after that, we saw 

665
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,240
The whale. 
And that's the kind of feeling 

666
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,960
that I got when I saw Nathan 
Lane in the producer Wow of this

667
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,960
huge object. 
And you know, it's a, it's a, 

668
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,240
it's a it's a it's a rare 
quality. 

669
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,880
It only happens with a few 
people. 

670
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,960
Well, I'm enjoying him right 
now, actually. 

671
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,440
What I'm watching and working my
way through the second series of

672
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,660
only murders in the building 
with Steve Martin and Martin 

673
00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:06,540
Short and and Nathan Lane's got 
a relatively small role in that 

674
00:39:06,540 --> 00:39:10,380
but he's just lights up the 
screen as they say he is quite 

675
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:10,860
a. 
Talent. 

676
00:39:11,020 --> 00:39:14,100
I mean, I wish I'd seen him when
a funny thing happened on the 

677
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:16,340
way to the forum, which I would 
really have liked to. 

678
00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:20,180
Yeah, yeah. 
I'm gonna talk a little bit 

679
00:39:20,180 --> 00:39:23,980
about Alexis Sales stuff and I 
remember being very. 

680
00:39:25,380 --> 00:39:29,820
Struck by many things, but 
particularly Angus Dayton. 

681
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:33,750
I just thought he's so much like
John Cleese. 

682
00:39:34,270 --> 00:39:36,470
Yes it was. 
And I've never seen or heard of 

683
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:39,750
Angus Stayton up to that point. 
To this day I cannot hear the 

684
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:42,670
name Leslie Crowther without 
thinking of him in a in a very 

685
00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:46,870
ill fitting tight suit with a 
with a bald wig on playing 

686
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:52,230
Alexis Sale. 
So what happened was we'd met 

687
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:57,350
Alexi making was Apocalypse and 
when we were making the movie in

688
00:39:57,350 --> 00:40:00,150
Miami I think we've been sort of
sitting around together waiting 

689
00:40:00,150 --> 00:40:03,790
for filming and and and found we
all got on really well. 

690
00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:08,270
And indeed even to this day 
Alexi is one of my my best 

691
00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:10,470
friends ever. 
I think, you know, he's he's, 

692
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:14,030
he's a lovely man. 
Not at all like the shouty sort 

693
00:40:14,030 --> 00:40:17,710
of Alexi. 
You see on screen a very 

694
00:40:17,710 --> 00:40:21,390
thoughtful actually I think the,
you know, the recent imaginary 

695
00:40:21,390 --> 00:40:25,790
sandwich shop episodes are 
actually much more interesting 

696
00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:30,750
in the ways he's a little bit 
more reposed in those, isn't he?

697
00:40:30,750 --> 00:40:32,110
Which I think is quite 
interesting. 

698
00:40:32,910 --> 00:40:38,510
And we were we, I think we had 
lunch with Jim Moyer who was the

699
00:40:38,510 --> 00:40:44,220
BB CS head of Variety at that. 
At that moment the BBC comedy 

700
00:40:44,220 --> 00:40:50,340
was divided into two sections, 
Situation Comedy and variety. 

701
00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:53,740
And Jim said is there anybody 
you'd like to make a show with? 

702
00:40:53,740 --> 00:41:01,180
And we said Alexi Sale and 
because it was variety rather 

703
00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:06,170
than comedy, situation comedy, 
it had to have a song in it that

704
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:09,250
was the only that was the only 
requisite we had. 

705
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:12,970
So that's why there were songs 
and that's why I imagine that's 

706
00:41:12,970 --> 00:41:14,450
why there are songs in The Young
Ones as well. 

707
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:16,290
I think that was probably made. 
Yeah, because it was. 

708
00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:19,970
It was then part of the light 
entertainment budget rather than

709
00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:24,570
the comedy budget, I think. 
Yeah, but we, you know we had 

710
00:41:24,570 --> 00:41:27,850
enormous form of those songs 
anyway, so that's how that came 

711
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:31,680
about. 
And we would go to Alexis House 

712
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,800
I think once a week and and and 
Linda would make us a lovely 

713
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,600
meal and we'd just sit there and
laugh and laugh and read things 

714
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,400
out to each other and we had a 
fantastic. 

715
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,120
I think it's probably the best 
time I've ever had on the show 

716
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,960
making making stuff. 
We really, we really enjoyed 

717
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,120
that, like I. 
Say you had Angus decent. 

718
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:53,200
You had fledgling comedians or 
comic actors like Mark Williams 

719
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,840
and Arabella Weir, Yeah. 
It turns up Phil Ravens, 

720
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,160
Felicity Montague and Jen 
Ravens. 

721
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,880
Yeah. 
Who are both brilliant in their 

722
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,320
own way. 
I think there's there's. 

723
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,560
The absolutely wonderful sketch.
The teenage girls who have 

724
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,840
obsessed with Lord Hailsham. 
Yes, Lord Hailsham. 

725
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,240
Always comes up with this 
podcast. 

726
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,480
Yeah I mean it's hard to pick a 
a favorite Alexis sales sketch. 

727
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,400
I was take. 
I think around that time Mark 

728
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,800
and I were taking self defence 
classes and I think self-defense

729
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,760
of our sarcasm would probably 
come into it. 

730
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,280
That's that's one of my 
favourite. 

731
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,160
Sketches the Guide Dogs for the 
dead, Guide Dogs for the Stitch.

732
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:38,920
Yes, that's very funny. 
Just visually very funny as 

733
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,280
well. 
Yeah, it's made of this comedy 

734
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,280
writing game. 
In it you see the trouble is 

735
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,040
that according to the experts, 
there's only 7 jokes in the 

736
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,520
world. 
That's one of them. 

737
00:42:54,920 --> 00:43:07,490
Six at About Jelly. 
It's very. 

738
00:43:07,490 --> 00:43:11,810
Funny. 
It's the most hilarious thing 

739
00:43:11,810 --> 00:43:16,290
I've ever read in my life. 
It's. 

740
00:43:16,290 --> 00:43:20,490
Unbelievably funny. 
What were your? 

741
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,760
I mean, how do I put this? 
Who did what in terms of your 

742
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,720
personal individual style and 
individual comedy text? 

743
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:29,680
What? 
What did each of you bring to a 

744
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:36,000
project, if you like? 
Well, Alan Boyd once said of us,

745
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:41,120
and I thought this is quite 
accurate, that I was 

746
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,000
mischievous, whereas David was 
merciless. 

747
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,200
And I think that's that's really
quite interesting. 

748
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,320
And I think when you put them 
together, you get quite an 

749
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:56,520
incendiary sort of what we would
do is in those days we would 

750
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,760
have very, very detailed 
discussions about ideas, share 

751
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:07,000
them out between us, go off and 
write a draft and then sort of 

752
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,000
swap them over. 
And David would pretty 

753
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,680
ruthlessly edit everything and 
put it all together and assemble

754
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,360
it, which he was very good at. 
This is, you know, I I learned 

755
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,120
to do that later when I was 
doing things by myself. 

756
00:44:21,540 --> 00:44:25,900
So when I came to write with 
with Rob Grant later on, it was 

757
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:29,260
quite who wanted to write, you 
know, live together. 

758
00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:32,660
Although we do it on Zoom, it 
was quite, it was quite a new 

759
00:44:32,660 --> 00:44:35,340
experience for me. 
So that was really quite good 

760
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:37,020
because I'd never done that 
before. 

761
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:44,100
So I've done it both. 
I've done it both ways and 

762
00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:45,700
they're they're both equally 
good. 

763
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,680
What I mean David used to say 
that I was ideas and he was 

764
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,880
organization and I think that's 
probably how it worked in our 

765
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,560
earlier days. 
But of course, as time wore on, 

766
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,920
he got better at ideas and I got
better at organization and we 

767
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,880
sort of became kind of equal, I 
think by the time we got to 

768
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,680
Alexi Sale and we know what I. 
Meant to ask you as well. 

769
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,840
Sorry. 
Going backwards and forwards 

770
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:11,640
here. 
Apologies. 

771
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,000
Douglas Adams, yes. 
And I know that you are 

772
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,920
supposedly the inspiration for 
Marvin the Paranoid Android, and

773
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,080
originally it was gonna be 
called Marshall. 

774
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,040
Is that right? 
Yes, I believe so. 

775
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,080
So can you tell? 
Because I don't really know 

776
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,480
about your relationship with 
him. 

777
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:40,230
We were just friends. 
We met up at probably around 

778
00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:44,750
just before Berkus Way, hanging 
around you know the BBC Radio 

779
00:45:44,990 --> 00:45:49,910
places. 
I found him a fascinating guy. 

780
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:54,710
I remember Douglas and I once 
stayed up an entire night just 

781
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:57,550
talking to each other. 
We've we you know he was a he 

782
00:45:57,550 --> 00:46:00,390
was a fascinating and 
interesting man. 

783
00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:05,070
I people often ask me about this
and I'm really can't help you 

784
00:46:05,070 --> 00:46:09,930
with it because I don't know. 
You know, it only means 

785
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:12,130
something to Douglas. 
It doesn't mean anything to me 

786
00:46:12,130 --> 00:46:13,290
at all. 
I don't know. 

787
00:46:14,370 --> 00:46:17,650
But you know, perhaps he met me 
in a morose mood one day and I 

788
00:46:17,690 --> 00:46:19,570
don't think I'm generally that 
morose. 

789
00:46:20,370 --> 00:46:23,370
I my sort of recollection of 
Douglas was he was the one who 

790
00:46:23,370 --> 00:46:26,050
was tended to be morose and I 
was usually trying to cheer him 

791
00:46:26,050 --> 00:46:27,450
up. 
But that just is my 

792
00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:32,800
recollection. 
I I I don't know what I make of 

793
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,640
it. 
I do remember being in the 

794
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,880
Captain's cabin, which you 
probably know is a pub or was. 

795
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,280
I don't know if it's still there
around the corner from the Paris

796
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,480
studios where we used to record 
everything. 

797
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,960
And I remember him showing me 
the script of the first episode 

798
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,200
of of Hitchhiker's Guide to the 
Galaxy. 

799
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,310
I remember I I actually said 
this. 

800
00:46:56,310 --> 00:46:58,350
I'm not making this up or 
changing history. 

801
00:46:58,350 --> 00:47:00,750
I said I think you should 
prepare to be famous. 

802
00:47:01,310 --> 00:47:03,350
That was. 
That was not what I said after 

803
00:47:03,350 --> 00:47:06,030
I'd read it. 
But looking back on it, I I 

804
00:47:06,030 --> 00:47:08,630
suspect he might have been 
showing me the script to see if 

805
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:12,070
I recognize myself in the sky, 
which of course I didn't. 

806
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:15,110
And then he went around saying 
it was all based. 

807
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:18,670
I could probably actually sue 
the Douglas Adams estate for 

808
00:47:18,670 --> 00:47:21,310
enormous amounts of money if I 
wanted to, if I wait for an 

809
00:47:21,310 --> 00:47:25,560
American. 
But I guess it's a kind of 

810
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,680
compliment, isn't it? 
I don't, I don't really know, to

811
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,920
be sort of immortalized. 
Absolutely. 

812
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,400
Absolutely. 
I mean, I think it's a funny 

813
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,440
character. 
It's basically eel though, isn't

814
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:35,960
it? 
Really, it's just eel. 

815
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Maybe it's just your way of 
speaking because you've got a 

816
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,760
very measured way of speaking. 
Maybe it's just that I don't 

817
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,520
know. 
Who knows? 

818
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,920
Afraid. 
The guy who can tell us can't, 

819
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,160
can no longer tell us. 
No. 

820
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,840
It's indeed no. 
OK. 

821
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,800
And So what was the reason that 
you and David? 

822
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,160
Decided to go your separate ways
then we never did decide that 

823
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,960
really. 
We we were just, you know, we 

824
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,400
always did some separate things.
And I for some somehow or other 

825
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,000
I I was. 
I was trying to develop this 

826
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:16,560
thing at Central Television 
because and I'll tell you why I 

827
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:22,050
did it as well. 
One day when we were a writing 

828
00:48:22,050 --> 00:48:26,050
pair, David had a terrible 
accident on the M1 which was and

829
00:48:26,050 --> 00:48:28,370
he wasn't badly hurt as it 
happens. 

830
00:48:28,930 --> 00:48:33,770
But it made me think, Oh my God,
I wonder if I could conceivably 

831
00:48:33,890 --> 00:48:36,810
survive if David wasn't there 
anymore. 

832
00:48:37,210 --> 00:48:40,210
So I was, you know, I thought 
I'd better just see whether it's

833
00:48:40,210 --> 00:48:44,330
possible for me to do it. 
And so I developed this not 

834
00:48:44,330 --> 00:48:49,050
really very good sitcom which 
Barry took, had very kindly sort

835
00:48:49,050 --> 00:48:51,970
of encouraged me to do at 
Central called Sobsys. 

836
00:48:52,010 --> 00:48:54,090
Don't go and look it up. 
It's just dreadful. 

837
00:48:54,610 --> 00:48:57,890
And I was learning at the time 
and I I kind of proved to myself

838
00:48:57,890 --> 00:49:01,370
I could do it. 
And then while I was doing that,

839
00:49:01,370 --> 00:49:05,480
I think David developed 1 Foot 
in the Grave and this series I, 

840
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,160
I, I wrote didn't go down 
particularly well because it's 

841
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,040
just, you know, it was my very 
first try at something by 

842
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,280
myself. 
So you know, it was a very much 

843
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,000
a nursery slope. 
Yeah. 

844
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,120
And then David was busy doing 
that at the BBC. 

845
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,160
So I thought, well I better try 
and do something else by myself.

846
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,360
And so I developed 2.4 children 
and that and then they both 

847
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,120
those series just ran around and
ran and and that was it. 

848
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,980
There was never any decision or 
falling out or anything of that 

849
00:49:33,980 --> 00:49:36,060
kind. 
It just didn't, you know, that's

850
00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:39,980
just how it worked out, yeah. 
2.4 children And correct me if 

851
00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:42,820
I'm wrong, but I get the feeling
from what I've read, from what 

852
00:49:42,820 --> 00:49:46,660
I've learned, that it was 
treated pretty shabbily by the 

853
00:49:46,660 --> 00:49:49,180
BBCI mean. 
It depends what you mean by 

854
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:51,060
treating shabbily. 
Every year they'd ask for 

855
00:49:51,060 --> 00:49:54,020
another series and they never 
told us what to do, you know, we

856
00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:56,780
were just allowed to go on and 
put whatever we wanted into it. 

857
00:49:56,780 --> 00:50:01,970
So I think in, you know, in that
respect they treated us quite 

858
00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:04,610
well, wasn't. 
There like, wasn't there like a 

859
00:50:04,610 --> 00:50:06,410
party or something? 
I'm sure I read. 

860
00:50:06,410 --> 00:50:08,890
So heard somewhere that there 
was a yeah, I think there was. 

861
00:50:09,130 --> 00:50:12,770
I think towards the end of the 
run there was a Britain's best 

862
00:50:12,770 --> 00:50:18,010
sitcom party or something and 
Gary got terribly upset because 

863
00:50:18,090 --> 00:50:22,610
because none of us were invited 
but I I sort of got used to them

864
00:50:22,970 --> 00:50:24,570
that. 
But but you know it's one of 

865
00:50:24,570 --> 00:50:31,140
those things that only the only 
only the public lost and you 

866
00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:34,740
know it it it's true we never 
won awards or anything because I

867
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:39,660
don't think anyone who made the 
awards or or or who was a proper

868
00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:42,700
critic ever really watched it. 
They just saw the name, saw you 

869
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:44,740
know a trailer and thought oh, I
know what that is. 

870
00:50:44,740 --> 00:50:46,940
It's like Terry and June or 
something and just paid no 

871
00:50:46,940 --> 00:50:49,620
attention to it. 
And while they were paying no 

872
00:50:49,620 --> 00:50:53,900
attention to it, we had the most
enormous fun doing all sorts of 

873
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:58,110
subversive things with it. 
No one really noticed in the in 

874
00:50:58,110 --> 00:51:02,110
the establishment. 
So it was, it was, you know, a 

875
00:51:02,110 --> 00:51:03,670
great sort of thing to do, 
really. 

876
00:51:04,070 --> 00:51:05,870
All right. 
I admit it. 

877
00:51:05,870 --> 00:51:08,510
Admit what? 
I've been using the phone line 

878
00:51:08,510 --> 00:51:09,590
at night. 
Rippers. 

879
00:51:09,590 --> 00:51:13,390
My net handle. 
Oh yeah, what? 

880
00:51:13,950 --> 00:51:15,270
It's my e-mail. 
Name. 

881
00:51:16,590 --> 00:51:18,750
What's he talking about? 
Electronic mail. 

882
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:20,830
I've connected my computer to 
the Internet. 

883
00:51:20,830 --> 00:51:23,190
You've connected your computer 
to the Internet. 

884
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:26,750
Our son has connected his 
computer to the Internet. 

885
00:51:26,990 --> 00:51:29,710
Internet. 
We know business doing that. 

886
00:51:29,710 --> 00:51:30,750
You don't know what it. 
Is. 

887
00:51:30,750 --> 00:51:33,110
I don't care what it is. 
You're not to connect to any 

888
00:51:33,110 --> 00:51:34,510
Nets. 
Even if they have got an handle,

889
00:51:34,510 --> 00:51:36,310
it's too expensive. 
Yes, Dad. 

890
00:51:36,750 --> 00:51:37,990
What is it? 
It's a. 

891
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:41,110
Communications network linking 
together millions of computers 

892
00:51:41,110 --> 00:51:42,590
through the phone lines, isn't 
it? 

893
00:51:42,830 --> 00:51:45,310
Well, where are? 
These computers everywhere in 

894
00:51:45,310 --> 00:51:48,790
the entire world. 
You can link up to universities 

895
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:51,830
discussion groups. 
US Naval research. 

896
00:51:52,030 --> 00:51:53,750
US Naval, NATO. 
NATO. 

897
00:51:53,830 --> 00:51:55,350
The White House. 
The White House. 

898
00:51:55,350 --> 00:51:56,710
Oh, my God. 
It's all right. 

899
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:59,830
It's quite legal, and you can 
get on cheap rate after 7:00. 

900
00:52:00,510 --> 00:52:01,990
We should be thankful. 
Hasn't gotten through to the 

901
00:52:01,990 --> 00:52:03,110
FBI. 
I have. 

902
00:52:03,310 --> 00:52:04,830
They sent me for some message, 
too. 

903
00:52:04,830 --> 00:52:07,750
The FBI have got our address. 
I know they haven't. 

904
00:52:07,950 --> 00:52:09,830
They just know that we're on the
end of the phone line. 

905
00:52:10,350 --> 00:52:11,550
Go and unplug it. 
Now. 

906
00:52:11,590 --> 00:52:12,670
That doesn't. 
Quickly. 

907
00:52:12,990 --> 00:52:14,670
Yes, ma'am. 
How many more of these have you 

908
00:52:14,670 --> 00:52:16,430
got? 
Oh, only. 100 so far. 

909
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:19,500
Christmas cards from nerds we 
don't even know. 

910
00:52:19,820 --> 00:52:22,460
Oh, Ben, you don't think they'll
be able to trace us here, do 

911
00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:23,420
you? 
Trace a phone line? 

912
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:25,100
The FBI? 
No Who's. 

913
00:52:26,340 --> 00:52:29,180
That I I gather. 
You a big you must be a big 

914
00:52:29,180 --> 00:52:33,740
movie buff, because there'd be 
very, in some cases, subtle or 

915
00:52:33,740 --> 00:52:35,860
not subtle. 
Sort of almost like movie 

916
00:52:35,860 --> 00:52:39,700
parodies or parodying movie and 
television cliches or tropes and

917
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:41,980
things like when you're when 
you're writing something for 10 

918
00:52:41,980 --> 00:52:44,060
years, you have to. 
I mean I think there's a there's

919
00:52:44,060 --> 00:52:50,740
a famous anecdote isn't it. 
Steve Martin was I think making 

920
00:52:50,740 --> 00:52:54,060
LA story was practicing his 
roller skating and past Johnny 

921
00:52:54,060 --> 00:52:59,060
Carson somewhere other and 
Carson said you'll do you'll use

922
00:52:59,060 --> 00:53:04,100
everything you ever knew and. 
When you're when you're riding a

923
00:53:04,140 --> 00:53:07,500
sitcom, you know, 67, You'll use
everything you ever do. 

924
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:12,260
Yeah, it's quite demand. 
It doesn't sound, you know, 8 

925
00:53:12,260 --> 00:53:15,020
episodes a year doesn't sound 
awfully demanding, but it's a 

926
00:53:15,020 --> 00:53:17,460
hell of a lot of work. 
I can tell you for one person 

927
00:53:18,100 --> 00:53:21,940
and you you know any any 
different way you can get into a

928
00:53:21,940 --> 00:53:24,900
different kind of story or a 
different angle you can put on 

929
00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:28,300
something you know is is is 
something you need to use. 

930
00:53:29,350 --> 00:53:31,870
And how controlling were you? 
Because again, I know on the one

931
00:53:31,870 --> 00:53:34,550
from the grave, David was always
there and he was always quite 

932
00:53:34,590 --> 00:53:36,550
adamant about this. 
That and the other were you 

933
00:53:36,550 --> 00:53:39,190
always present or did you kind 
of let them get on with it? 

934
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:42,470
I was, I was. 
I was always present for 

935
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:47,150
exterior filming and on 1st 
rehearsal that I'd probably 

936
00:53:47,150 --> 00:53:50,190
leave them to learn the lines 
for a couple of days and I go 

937
00:53:50,190 --> 00:53:53,750
back in midweek see how it was 
going on sometimes. 

938
00:53:54,910 --> 00:53:58,030
Sometimes lines weren't going 
well, and there's There's 

939
00:53:58,030 --> 00:54:01,150
usually only two reasons for 
that. 

940
00:54:01,150 --> 00:54:06,270
Either the line is wrong, in 
which case you take it out, or 

941
00:54:06,270 --> 00:54:10,910
the actor doesn't understand the
line, and so you've got to work 

942
00:54:10,910 --> 00:54:15,230
out which of those two it is. 
That sounds easy, but sometimes 

943
00:54:15,230 --> 00:54:17,630
that can be very difficult. 
Is the line wrong or do they 

944
00:54:17,630 --> 00:54:19,710
just not understand? 
Or is it not clear? 

945
00:54:19,710 --> 00:54:22,150
Or how do you make it clear? 
Or something isn't working? 

946
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:27,820
Or, you know, so I'd be around 
to help and to to keep an eye 

947
00:54:27,820 --> 00:54:33,820
on, you know, I mean, you know, 
they the accident deviate from 

948
00:54:33,820 --> 00:54:35,180
the scripts. 
You know, they wouldn't put in 

949
00:54:35,180 --> 00:54:36,940
extra lines or anything like 
that. 

950
00:54:36,940 --> 00:54:38,260
They were, you know, they were 
actors. 

951
00:54:38,260 --> 00:54:39,780
That's what they did. 
They come in, they learn the 

952
00:54:39,780 --> 00:54:43,820
script and they do it. 
That's not quite the same as me 

953
00:54:43,820 --> 00:54:46,700
bearing down on them and saying 
you've got to say it exactly 

954
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:50,120
this way. 
Gary was particularly good at 

955
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,720
finding unusual ways of saying 
lines or a different sort of 

956
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,680
having a slightly old take on 
things, which was always very 

957
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,240
interesting. 
Gary was a marvelous actor, 

958
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:05,320
obviously taken far too young. 
Yes, and I know he was. 

959
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,080
He headed up the cast on health 
and efficiency as well. 

960
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,760
Now I haven't, I must admit, 
hold my hand up. 

961
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:13,040
I had. 
I've never seen health and 

962
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,350
efficiency. 
Yeah, you can find it quite 

963
00:55:15,350 --> 00:55:18,310
easily on on YouTube, I think. 
I didn't know it was enormous 

964
00:55:18,310 --> 00:55:20,270
fun. 
It was kind of my version of 

965
00:55:20,270 --> 00:55:25,470
Cheers crossed with the hospital
drama and it worked very well. 

966
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:30,630
The problem we had with Elton 
efficiency, which is something 

967
00:55:30,830 --> 00:55:36,230
another lesson learned, was that
our designer, David Buckingham, 

968
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,200
built this enormously elaborate 
studio hospital set with 

969
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,600
corridors and rooms and all 
sorts of things. 

970
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:45,560
It's very labyrinth time. 
Yeah. 

971
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,920
And it was so complicated that 
we'd come in because you you, I 

972
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,440
don't know what you know about 
TV recordings, but you've just 

973
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,920
got the one day in the studio to
do it. 

974
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,360
Yeah. 
So we'd come in in the morning 

975
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:00,880
and the set wouldn't be 
finished. 

976
00:56:01,870 --> 00:56:04,910
In the in the older days of the 
BBC, they had, they had what was

977
00:56:04,910 --> 00:56:07,230
called a night crew and they put
up things during the night. 

978
00:56:07,230 --> 00:56:10,030
But that had stopped quite 
recently when we made health 

979
00:56:10,030 --> 00:56:11,710
divisions. 
So they would start putting it 

980
00:56:11,710 --> 00:56:14,790
up, you know, relatively early 
in the day whenever the scene 

981
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:18,470
builders came on. 
And it was never quite finished 

982
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:23,430
in time for rehearsal. 
So we quite often had to record 

983
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:26,510
the show without having 
rehearsed it on the set. 

984
00:56:26,510 --> 00:56:29,030
Obviously we rehearsed it in the
rehearsal room in the church or 

985
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:32,510
whatever it was, but we hadn't 
rehearsed it on the set, which 

986
00:56:32,510 --> 00:56:36,230
is a very different prospect. 
So it's really nail biting that 

987
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:39,550
we would even get the show 
recorded, you know, in the day. 

988
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:44,590
And so it was quite, it was 
quite a difficult show to make 

989
00:56:44,590 --> 00:56:47,750
in that respect, but there's a 
lot about it that's very good. 

990
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:49,910
My partner thinks it's the best 
of my shows. 

991
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:54,910
I I prefer Dad myself. 
But it's well worth seeing. 

992
00:56:54,910 --> 00:56:56,270
We haven't seen. 
There's some very funny 

993
00:56:56,270 --> 00:56:57,590
episodes. 
Very, very funny. 

994
00:56:57,590 --> 00:56:58,150
I will see. 
Do you? 

995
00:56:58,150 --> 00:57:00,750
Know I know why I won't have 
watched it at the time and it's 

996
00:57:00,750 --> 00:57:02,670
nothing to do with you. 
How do I put this? 

997
00:57:03,150 --> 00:57:05,710
There's there's three 
performers, if you like, or 

998
00:57:05,710 --> 00:57:09,470
actors or or artists who I have 
a real problem with. 

999
00:57:09,710 --> 00:57:12,230
One is Robert Morley. 
I can't watch Robert Morley. 

1000
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:15,110
One is Lulu. 
OK? 

1001
00:57:16,070 --> 00:57:18,310
And one is Roger Lloyd Pack. 
Right. 

1002
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:21,510
And I gather Roger. 
And that's why I have trouble 

1003
00:57:21,510 --> 00:57:23,630
watching Only Fools and Horses 
as well. 

1004
00:57:24,780 --> 00:57:26,660
But he was in health and 
efficiency, wasn't he? 

1005
00:57:26,980 --> 00:57:34,740
Yes, he played the sort of the 
equivalent of, oh, the sort of 

1006
00:57:34,740 --> 00:57:37,260
villain. 
There's two villains in health 

1007
00:57:37,260 --> 00:57:41,380
and efficiency. 
Roger Lloyd Pax villain who is 

1008
00:57:41,380 --> 00:57:47,060
the villain with with no 
redeeming qualities and and his 

1009
00:57:47,060 --> 00:57:52,050
his sort of girlfriend who's a 
kind of Thatcher like figure and

1010
00:57:52,050 --> 00:57:57,770
she's she's a villain with 
redeeming qualities But yeah he 

1011
00:57:57,770 --> 00:58:02,810
plays a kind of Danny DeVito 
sort of very rude surgeon but 

1012
00:58:02,850 --> 00:58:07,280
yeah we all have people we don't
like watching for some reason or

1013
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,720
other it's I don't know it's 
some chemical personality. 

1014
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,320
I'm just weird. 
Yeah, you know, there's one of, 

1015
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,080
there's one of David's series 
that I can't watch because I 

1016
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,800
don't like the principal actor 
and I won't name them again. 

1017
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,360
But you know, I just we all have
these sort of blind spots about 

1018
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,560
people. 
Did he bite a tramp's ear by any

1019
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,800
chance? 
I don't know what that means. 

1020
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:33,240
So, OK, yeah, No. 
Gary Olson there. 

1021
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,270
I'd like 2.4 children. 
He's marvellous and you just 

1022
00:58:37,270 --> 00:58:39,190
think he could have gone on to 
so much. 

1023
00:58:39,590 --> 00:58:41,950
He could have been a much bigger
star. 

1024
00:58:42,070 --> 00:58:43,950
Yes, it was an enormous 
surprise. 

1025
00:58:43,950 --> 00:58:50,030
And it was a terrible business 
because we knew Gary told 

1026
00:58:50,030 --> 00:58:54,910
Belinda and I and the BBC as he 
had pancreatic cancer. 

1027
00:58:54,910 --> 00:58:59,780
And, you know, you and very 
sadly, you look it up and the 

1028
00:58:59,780 --> 00:59:03,020
recovery rate is minuscule. 
It's like nought point nought, 

1029
00:59:03,020 --> 00:59:05,340
nought nought 1% of people or 
something. 

1030
00:59:05,660 --> 00:59:09,100
So we knew it was a very bad 
diagnosis. 

1031
00:59:09,100 --> 00:59:15,620
And and Gary didn't want us to 
tell anyone else because he was 

1032
00:59:15,620 --> 00:59:18,260
worried that if he came back to 
acting, he'd never get 

1033
00:59:18,260 --> 00:59:19,980
insurance. 
So he wouldn't, you know, be 

1034
00:59:20,020 --> 00:59:21,780
able to, you know, if he did 
recover. 

1035
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:25,020
Yeah. 
And so we had to sort of spend a

1036
00:59:25,020 --> 00:59:29,750
year with people saying, oh, you
know, people would say, when's 

1037
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:31,910
the series coming back? 
We say, oh, well, we're not 

1038
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:34,310
sure. 
And, you know, and it was quite 

1039
00:59:34,310 --> 00:59:37,910
difficult because we, we weren't
allowed to actually say 

1040
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:39,030
anything. 
So it was. 

1041
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:42,030
And in fact, I don't think 
Claire and John, who played the 

1042
00:59:42,030 --> 00:59:45,030
children, knew at the time. 
I think all the first they knew 

1043
00:59:45,590 --> 00:59:49,030
was was when his death was 
announced, which was very, oh 

1044
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:52,030
God, traumatic for the for them.
I didn't realise they didn't 

1045
00:59:52,030 --> 00:59:53,670
know. 
I assumed the BBC would have 

1046
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:57,910
told them, but apparently not. 
And in fact they'd Geoffrey 

1047
00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:00,790
Perkins, who was head of comedy 
at the time, did say to me, do 

1048
01:00:00,790 --> 01:00:05,030
you think you could write Gary's
illness into the into the show 

1049
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:07,870
somehow? 
And I thought about this. 

1050
01:00:07,910 --> 01:00:10,910
No, I I don't think I can. 
I don't think that's going to 

1051
01:00:10,910 --> 01:00:13,710
work, really. 
And so that's when they said, 

1052
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:19,030
OK, we'll start my family up, 
all right, I. 

1053
01:00:19,030 --> 01:00:21,910
See. 
OK, what did you find working or

1054
01:00:21,910 --> 01:00:25,320
writing for children? 
And I know that by the end they 

1055
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:30,120
were teenagers, but writing for 
kids notoriously can be tricky. 

1056
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,200
Did you find that? 
Not really, no. 

1057
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:37,960
I thought they were, but I every
year I would look at John and 

1058
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:39,960
Claire and think how old do they
look? 

1059
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,400
And then that's the age they 
were that year. 

1060
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,410
So you'll find that. 
That there's something like five

1061
01:00:47,410 --> 01:00:49,570
years between them at the 
beginning of the series and I 

1062
01:00:49,570 --> 01:00:53,170
think there's like one year 
between the end of the final 

1063
01:00:53,530 --> 01:00:57,410
series and they they've aged 
about five years in 10 years or 

1064
01:00:57,410 --> 01:00:59,290
something. 
But of course you have to 

1065
01:00:59,290 --> 01:01:03,850
remember the the series weren't 
necessarily a year apart in 

1066
01:01:03,850 --> 01:01:07,130
series time. 
You know, they it was a sort of 

1067
01:01:07,130 --> 01:01:10,570
like a continuous run really of 
of time in a way. 

1068
01:01:10,570 --> 01:01:12,690
So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the 
same. 

1069
01:01:12,690 --> 01:01:14,690
Thing Agatha Christie did with 
Poirot, I think. 

1070
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:17,890
I think she worked out that 
Poirot would have been like 130 

1071
01:01:17,890 --> 01:01:20,570
or something with the time he 
got to the last book. 

1072
01:01:21,330 --> 01:01:25,730
He only, I think he's, I think 
she had a really only age 2/3 of

1073
01:01:25,730 --> 01:01:27,810
what everybody else aged or some
such thing. 

1074
01:01:27,930 --> 01:01:31,210
But, you know, no one really 
notices as long as as long as it

1075
01:01:31,210 --> 01:01:35,090
doesn't look ridiculous. 
You know, I think Homer Simpson 

1076
01:01:36,810 --> 01:01:43,290
in 89, when they began was 38. 
Yeah, I think he's now after 

1077
01:01:43,290 --> 01:01:45,010
what, 30? 
What? 

1078
01:01:45,010 --> 01:01:46,810
What? 
What are we now 89? 

1079
01:01:46,810 --> 01:01:50,730
So what was that 34 years later?
I think he's now 42. 

1080
01:01:51,130 --> 01:01:52,050
Yeah. 
Well, that'll be. 

1081
01:01:52,530 --> 01:01:54,410
Yeah, but. 
All those things could have 

1082
01:01:54,410 --> 01:01:56,970
happened daily, couldn't they? 
They don't have to be weekly, 

1083
01:01:56,970 --> 01:01:58,650
you know, or even you know they 
could. 

1084
01:01:59,170 --> 01:02:02,570
The next adventure could start 
immediately in time after the 

1085
01:02:02,570 --> 01:02:05,810
previous. 
It's all, it's all you know, 

1086
01:02:05,810 --> 01:02:09,090
it's all just pretend. 
I hate, I hate to, you know, to 

1087
01:02:09,090 --> 01:02:13,200
break this to people, but. 
It's it's just, it's just it's 

1088
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:17,000
just a movie. 
As as Hitchcock used to say, 

1089
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,440
shouldn't shouldn't be 
overanalyzed, which is you don't

1090
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,560
have. 
To take it that seriously, Yeah,

1091
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,920
I know you mentioned Poirot. 
You did some adaptations, didn't

1092
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:26,600
you? 
Of Poirot? 

1093
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,960
Yes, both. 
David and I did did two or three

1094
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:30,680
episodes of Poirot. 
I love doing that. 

1095
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,640
I'm a great Agatha Christie. 
I am too. 

1096
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,560
I am too. 
I love, I think, the best. 

1097
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,660
The best Poirot is, I think it's
generally considered to be the 

1098
01:02:40,100 --> 01:02:44,060
murder of Roger Ackroyd. 
Which, yeah, must be the devil's

1099
01:02:44,060 --> 01:02:48,180
own job to adapt that, yes. 
Because then, I'm not going to 

1100
01:02:48,180 --> 01:02:50,100
spoil it, but the nature of it, 
You know what? 

1101
01:02:50,100 --> 01:02:52,900
Yes. 
Yes, yes, and in fact Brian, 

1102
01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:57,100
Brian East was, the producer 
said He had terrible trouble and

1103
01:02:59,180 --> 01:03:03,140
now I've got to be very careful 
what I say about these things in

1104
01:03:03,140 --> 01:03:04,300
order to avoid the spoilers, 
but. 

1105
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:09,710
In one of the episodes I wrote, 
we had Poirot narrating it and 

1106
01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:14,670
and I remember Brian said to me,
why is pouring, how do we accept

1107
01:03:14,670 --> 01:03:17,510
Poirot's narrating this? 
I said, I said because it's his 

1108
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:20,110
show, I mean, no one's going to 
think that strange at all. 

1109
01:03:20,750 --> 01:03:26,710
And when they came to meet Roger
Ackroyd, he remembered this 

1110
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:30,150
narration device. 
And so it's Poirot who is 

1111
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:37,940
reading a diary which. 
Has a great significance on what

1112
01:03:37,940 --> 01:03:41,100
later happens, But I won't say 
anymore. 

1113
01:03:41,500 --> 01:03:45,980
OK And I know you've worked, you
have collaborated a little bit 

1114
01:03:45,980 --> 01:03:49,260
with the great job Lloyd. 
Yes. 

1115
01:03:50,420 --> 01:03:54,140
What are the things on Radio 4? 
Yes, we did that. 

1116
01:03:56,230 --> 01:03:58,950
Was it during Berkus Or before 
Berkus? 

1117
01:03:58,950 --> 01:04:02,470
I can't remember now exactly 
when it was, but that was fun. 

1118
01:04:02,470 --> 01:04:03,910
Yes. 
Am I right in saying John? 

1119
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:05,870
So John Lloyd was the Berkus Way
producer. 

1120
01:04:06,430 --> 01:04:08,350
He was the. 
He was one of our three 

1121
01:04:08,350 --> 01:04:11,190
producers. 
Yes, they were Simon Brett, John

1122
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:15,990
Lloyd and later David Hatch. 
I mean, I I've known John since 

1123
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:19,910
he came to the BBC as a as a 
training producer and you know, 

1124
01:04:19,910 --> 01:04:24,450
throughout. 
Throughout his life on and off, 

1125
01:04:24,450 --> 01:04:30,570
you know periodically we we we 
catch up and he's an enormously 

1126
01:04:30,570 --> 01:04:37,610
clever man who who you know 
really has the spirit of comedy 

1127
01:04:37,610 --> 01:04:38,250
in him. 
I wish. 

1128
01:04:38,250 --> 01:04:42,210
I wish he was doing more things,
really, but he still pops up on 

1129
01:04:42,210 --> 01:04:44,970
Radio 4:00 during the Museum of 
Curiosity, doesn't he? 

1130
01:04:45,250 --> 01:04:46,130
Yes, he. 
Does, yes. 

1131
01:04:46,610 --> 01:04:49,460
He's never. 
I mean I think, I think I'm 

1132
01:04:49,460 --> 01:04:52,460
right in saying we asked John 
whether he wanted to be one of 

1133
01:04:52,460 --> 01:04:57,660
the performers on under part one
and I think he turned that down.

1134
01:04:57,660 --> 01:05:01,500
I mean I think we periodically 
David and I tried to lure John 

1135
01:05:01,500 --> 01:05:06,300
into before but he he always 
probably very wisely turned it 

1136
01:05:06,300 --> 01:05:10,220
down because probably he he 
probably he needs to do stuff in

1137
01:05:10,220 --> 01:05:12,460
a particular genre that that 
suits him. 

1138
01:05:12,460 --> 01:05:18,230
But yeah, OK. 
There's something I want to ask 

1139
01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:19,630
you about as well. 
You've probably never been asked

1140
01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:24,710
this in 30 years, but it's 
something I'm very fond of. 

1141
01:05:24,830 --> 01:05:28,310
And it it, it was pretty, I 
think it was fairly unfairly 

1142
01:05:29,110 --> 01:05:32,030
slated at the time. 
But the film Wilt. 

1143
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:34,630
Oh, yeah. 
With Griffin. 

1144
01:05:34,630 --> 01:05:35,830
Mel. 
Yes. 

1145
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:39,150
Which is obviously based on the 
Tom Sharp novel, which you and 

1146
01:05:39,150 --> 01:05:42,590
David adapted. 
Yes, I love that film. 

1147
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:46,820
My name is Henry Wilt and I have
a confession to make. 

1148
01:05:47,220 --> 01:05:49,780
Henry. 
Wilt has a confession to make 

1149
01:05:49,780 --> 01:05:51,620
concerning his wife. 
Murder. 

1150
01:05:53,940 --> 01:05:59,620
Semiological solution something.
Grisly will be good. 

1151
01:06:00,140 --> 01:06:02,500
That's him. 
That's the man I saw on Friday 

1152
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:04,420
night. 
He was stabbing a woman to 

1153
01:06:04,420 --> 01:06:06,020
death. 
That's what we call a positive 

1154
01:06:06,020 --> 01:06:09,910
identification Mr. Wilt now. 
He's helping the police with 

1155
01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:19,750
their inquiries and his slender 
alibi is about to bounce, which 

1156
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:22,430
is not surprising because she's 
made a rubber. 

1157
01:06:27,070 --> 01:06:28,710
It's not quite as simple as 
that. 

1158
01:06:28,710 --> 01:06:32,070
We were brought in at the last 
moment by Brian Eastman. 

1159
01:06:33,100 --> 01:06:36,540
Dick and Ian had originally 
written the adaptation. 

1160
01:06:36,540 --> 01:06:37,660
Oh, right. 
OK. 

1161
01:06:37,660 --> 01:06:40,220
And it was. 
Thought to not be quite right 

1162
01:06:40,220 --> 01:06:44,340
and David and I did quite a a 
large overhaul on it. 

1163
01:06:44,420 --> 01:06:49,140
Although there are you know 
elements of I think Dick and Ian

1164
01:06:49,140 --> 01:06:53,420
had had done a fantastic job 
filleting the story and and you 

1165
01:06:53,420 --> 01:06:55,980
know let setting it out in the 
right order and things. 

1166
01:06:55,980 --> 01:07:01,700
But I don't remember exactly why
their draft was not thought to 

1167
01:07:01,700 --> 01:07:05,030
be. 
Right, But David and I came on 

1168
01:07:05,030 --> 01:07:08,390
board and we were literally, you
know, it's literally writing 

1169
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:12,830
what you scenes and handing them
you know under the door, right, 

1170
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:16,790
Right. 
So almost we did a we did a job.

1171
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:19,590
I think we did quite a major 
overhaul in it. 

1172
01:07:19,590 --> 01:07:22,190
But I don't want to. 
I don't want to in any way 

1173
01:07:24,510 --> 01:07:28,910
minimise the work taken in and 
done on it because they had done

1174
01:07:28,910 --> 01:07:31,350
a lot of spade work in the in 
the original draft. 

1175
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:33,760
Well, those guys, I mean, God, 
they they're in Hollywood now, 

1176
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:35,320
aren't they? 
Still, I think they're in 

1177
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,840
Hollywood. 
Then script doctors on things 

1178
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:43,920
like The Rock, yeah. 
Films like the Rock but Maze, 

1179
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:46,560
amazing career those two guys 
have have had, but absolutely. 

1180
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,040
The absolute masters of of 
comedy. 

1181
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:54,520
But I I interviewed Griff Rhys 
Jones a few months ago and I 

1182
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,520
tried to get him to talk about 
Wilt, and he didn't want to keep

1183
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,720
changing the subject. 
So was it? 

1184
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:02,780
Was it a? 
Was it an? 

1185
01:08:02,820 --> 01:08:06,020
I mean, I know you were just 
sort of involved with the script

1186
01:08:06,020 --> 01:08:07,900
writing, but were you on set at 
all? 

1187
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:09,660
Did you see any of it? 
I think we went. 

1188
01:08:09,660 --> 01:08:12,660
To filming occasionally. 
I didn't get the impression it 

1189
01:08:12,660 --> 01:08:15,060
was that much. 
I think it did well enough to 

1190
01:08:15,060 --> 01:08:19,340
make its money back. 
I've never. 

1191
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:23,760
Had the impression it was a real
failure of any kind, so I 

1192
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,479
thought it worked quite well as 
far as I can remember. 

1193
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,160
So who knows? 
I don't really know. 

1194
01:08:28,359 --> 01:08:31,120
The trouble with Tom Sharp is he
is unadaptable. 

1195
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,920
Really. 
You can't really, you can't 

1196
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,720
really put that quality into a 
movie. 

1197
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:38,479
A book is a book and a movie is 
a movie. 

1198
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,359
And they they're very different 
things. 

1199
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:43,880
You can try, you know, you can 
try and do you. 

1200
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,800
You know certain things, but you
know the. 

1201
01:08:48,260 --> 01:08:51,620
Getting the essence of it into 
into into movie film is is a 

1202
01:08:51,620 --> 01:08:54,620
difficult thing. 
So it's probably, if there were 

1203
01:08:54,620 --> 01:08:57,660
criticisms of it at the time, it
was probably from Tom Sharp. 

1204
01:08:57,899 --> 01:09:01,460
Literary fans who probably were 
disappointed, didn't quite have 

1205
01:09:01,460 --> 01:09:02,620
the qualities that the books 
have. 

1206
01:09:02,620 --> 01:09:05,100
But to be honest, you can't do 
that. 

1207
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:09,220
It's just not really possible. 
You never, you know, Tom Sharp 

1208
01:09:09,220 --> 01:09:12,140
books live in a world of their 
own, their own universe. 

1209
01:09:12,140 --> 01:09:13,979
You can't, really. 
When you start to bring that 

1210
01:09:13,979 --> 01:09:16,460
universe into reality, you know 
which is more a movie. 

1211
01:09:16,810 --> 01:09:19,649
You can't really, you know, you 
can't really replicate that. 

1212
01:09:19,649 --> 01:09:24,529
You can do your best you can. 
You can make a kind of what was 

1213
01:09:24,529 --> 01:09:26,609
it? 
What's the expression Palin set 

1214
01:09:26,609 --> 01:09:29,529
of it? 
But you can't actually replicate

1215
01:09:29,529 --> 01:09:33,170
it accurately. 
I've never seen Porterhouse 

1216
01:09:33,170 --> 01:09:37,210
Blue, but I gather that was 
quite acclaimed as a as an 

1217
01:09:37,210 --> 01:09:42,330
adaptation. 
Yeah, Porterhouse Brian also did

1218
01:09:42,330 --> 01:09:44,330
Porterhouse Blue and brought on 
the landscape. 

1219
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,880
Yeah, I think that was probably 
an easier one to do, though. 

1220
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,760
I think it's probably less, less
fantastic. 

1221
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:52,040
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1222
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,040
I mean you've. 
Got Will, you've got, you know, 

1223
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:59,120
a man and a blow up doll and 
yes, the bizarre. 

1224
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,520
Segment, which is fine. 
Written down. 

1225
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,520
You could write it down. 
There's all sorts of things you 

1226
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,080
could write down. 
You know, you could write down. 

1227
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,960
He suddenly realizes he's in, 
he's in Cairo or something. 

1228
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:12,560
But it doesn't mean to say you 
can put it on screen, because 

1229
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,770
how does that happen? 
Or, you know, you can write down

1230
01:10:16,770 --> 01:10:20,930
someone mistakes a horse for 
Esther Ranson or something, but 

1231
01:10:21,050 --> 01:10:23,410
you wouldn't do that in real 
life because they're obviously 

1232
01:10:23,410 --> 01:10:25,770
very different. 
Absolutely, totally different. 

1233
01:10:26,410 --> 01:10:28,010
That's probably a terrible thing
to say. 

1234
01:10:28,010 --> 01:10:31,770
I probably shouldn't. 
She doesn't listen. 

1235
01:10:32,610 --> 01:10:35,530
That can I just say, that was 
not a reference to Esther 

1236
01:10:35,530 --> 01:10:38,130
Ranson's teeth. 
I was trying to find two things 

1237
01:10:38,130 --> 01:10:40,410
in my head that were very 
dissimilar, and they just were 

1238
01:10:40,410 --> 01:10:43,810
the things that came to me. 
Sorry Esther, I didn't mean it 

1239
01:10:43,810 --> 01:10:46,760
like you think. 
I'd like to get Esther on the 

1240
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,480
show though, by the way, because
she used to go to Goon Show 

1241
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:53,600
recordings back in the 50s. 
I know I'm an enormous fan of 

1242
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:55,120
Esther. 
I wouldn't say anything against 

1243
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:56,680
Esther Ranson, even though I 
just did. 

1244
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:01,800
OK. 
So look better, better wrap up, 

1245
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,920
you've been working in recent 
years with with the like you 

1246
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:10,160
mentioned before with Rob Grant.
So are you, are you 

1247
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:12,440
collaborating on anything at the
moment? 

1248
01:11:16,740 --> 01:11:19,980
Well, we are we're collaborating
on on several things. 

1249
01:11:21,540 --> 01:11:28,140
We we might do a new book, we 
might do a new TV series, we 

1250
01:11:28,140 --> 01:11:33,420
might do a new radio series. 
We we we we sort of came to the 

1251
01:11:33,420 --> 01:11:38,660
end of our radio series is as as
is very often the case when the 

1252
01:11:38,660 --> 01:11:41,300
controller Radio 4 changed over 
there. 

1253
01:11:41,890 --> 01:11:43,970
And you, you tend to find, I 
don't know, this is kind of the 

1254
01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:46,330
bane of my life. 
You just sort of get a nice run 

1255
01:11:46,330 --> 01:11:49,130
of something and they're a 
little controlled, so and they 

1256
01:11:49,130 --> 01:11:51,410
like some of, they're a 
completely different character. 

1257
01:11:51,410 --> 01:11:53,250
They like totally different 
things. 

1258
01:11:53,250 --> 01:11:56,010
And then you have to stop that 
and regroup. 

1259
01:11:56,010 --> 01:11:59,370
So we're in a sort of regrouping
situation at the moment. 

1260
01:12:01,290 --> 01:12:05,770
There's something about the 
desire to make comedy, the drive

1261
01:12:05,770 --> 01:12:10,330
to do it that never really dies.
And OK, you know. 

1262
01:12:11,870 --> 01:12:14,550
You might get to the point where
they don't let you make people, 

1263
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:16,910
but it never stops you wanting 
to make it. 

1264
01:12:16,910 --> 01:12:20,830
You never you, never you never 
stop wanting to get that laugh 

1265
01:12:20,830 --> 01:12:24,710
to to to delight those people. 
It's something that's just born 

1266
01:12:24,710 --> 01:12:27,110
in you. 
I don't know what it is. 

1267
01:12:27,110 --> 01:12:30,790
It's a bit of a curse, it's a 
bit of a pleasure. 

1268
01:12:31,310 --> 01:12:38,830
But I I hope to go on making 
comedy in some form or other as 

1269
01:12:38,830 --> 01:12:42,410
long as I possibly can. 
So bad luck everyone. 

1270
01:12:43,730 --> 01:12:45,010
You probably get answers all the
time. 

1271
01:12:45,010 --> 01:12:45,890
You know what I'm going to ask 
you? 

1272
01:12:46,170 --> 01:12:48,570
Would the two of you work again,
do you think, David? 

1273
01:12:48,570 --> 01:12:53,170
And I I don't think so, no, I 
think we've, I think you know 

1274
01:12:53,170 --> 01:12:57,930
over the years we've we've sort 
of slightly diverged in our 

1275
01:12:57,930 --> 01:13:02,010
paths and I I shouldn't imagine 
we would fit together very well 

1276
01:13:02,010 --> 01:13:04,450
there. 
But that doesn't mean to say 

1277
01:13:04,450 --> 01:13:08,500
we're not still great friends. 
You know contact each other from

1278
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:13,780
time to time and and and and and
you know I'm I'm you know I will

1279
01:13:13,780 --> 01:13:18,860
always be a great admirer of 
David's work and David's work 

1280
01:13:18,860 --> 01:13:21,460
ethic which you know is an 
extraordinary thing. 

1281
01:13:21,900 --> 01:13:24,380
People often wonder why David is
so successful. 

1282
01:13:24,380 --> 01:13:27,500
The answer is very simple. 
He works very, very hard. 

1283
01:13:28,940 --> 01:13:31,540
Yeah. 
Last question actually just 

1284
01:13:31,820 --> 01:13:34,230
occurred to me. 
Did when you kind of went your 

1285
01:13:34,230 --> 01:13:37,270
separate ways, as it were, you 
know you had 2.4 children, 

1286
01:13:37,830 --> 01:13:39,990
health and efficiency here, 1 
foot. 

1287
01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:48,190
Did either of you ever offer the
other sort of advice on your on 

1288
01:13:48,190 --> 01:13:49,830
your solo projects, if you know 
what I mean? 

1289
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:52,750
Did either of you, you know, did
he ever pick up the phone to you

1290
01:13:52,750 --> 01:13:54,310
and say, well, you know, I 
think. 

1291
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:56,630
You should be doing this. 
I think it was the opposite 

1292
01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:58,350
really. 
I think we declined. 

1293
01:13:58,830 --> 01:14:03,350
To offer we declined to offer 
each other any opinions for fear

1294
01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:06,150
of of of of upsetting the other 
person. 

1295
01:14:06,150 --> 01:14:09,310
You know, I think you've got to.
I think they're just kind of 

1296
01:14:09,310 --> 01:14:12,190
mutual mutual respect there. 
But I don't. 

1297
01:14:13,470 --> 01:14:15,870
You know, I don't. 
It's not for me to say, you know

1298
01:14:15,870 --> 01:14:17,310
what? 
What David should be doing or 

1299
01:14:17,310 --> 01:14:21,710
vice versa, really. 
Because he knows perfectly well 

1300
01:14:21,710 --> 01:14:23,870
what he what his aims are, and 
and. 

1301
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,240
He's he's done extraordinary 
extraordinary well out of it and

1302
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,840
and good for him. 
I mean, he's an ordinary talent.

1303
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,800
I I I wouldn't say anything 
else. 

1304
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,760
Well, that's Andrew. 
I want to, you know, thank you 

1305
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,800
for your time, Stan. 
Thank you for giving me so many 

1306
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,720
laughs over the years as well. 
And I hope that this hasn't been

1307
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:46,880
too much of an ordeal for you. 
This. 

1308
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:47,880
No. 
No. 

1309
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:53,160
Pleasant enough chat, just edit 
out the libelous bits later if 

1310
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:56,510
you wouldn't mind. 
Yeah, so. 

1311
01:14:56,950 --> 01:15:00,870
Anything that will get me 
cancelled, OK, I will do, I will

1312
01:15:00,870 --> 01:15:05,190
do probably. 
Pretty much all of it, Andrew. 

1313
01:15:05,190 --> 01:15:06,510
Thank. 
Thank you very much. 

1314
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:07,590
Thanks a lot.