1 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:08,400 Sergeant Quatta, you will say the river bottom is sanded, 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,400 right, Sir. The river bottom is sandy, Sir. 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,280 Good. Have you any knowledge of trees? 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:15,880 I was born in one, Sir. Good. 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,600 You will see those wooden ones across the river personally, 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Sir. Think you could drop them down? 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,000 Well, get Private Blitz. He's a lumberjack. 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,000 I'm sorry, Sir. He's been down at 10 B, Sir. 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,420 Got a broken up, Sir. You can't jump down trees or 10 00:00:30,420 --> 00:00:32,340 broken arms. Couldn't he try on that? 11 00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:37,500 Hello. Hello, Field Marshall Echols. 12 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:40,340 How are you getting on As a sanitary orderline. 13 00:00:41,260 --> 00:00:43,380 I want to speak to you about that. 14 00:00:44,420 --> 00:00:48,620 Since I've been doing that job, the men make me sleep outside in 15 00:00:48,620 --> 00:00:50,220 a snow. Snow. 16 00:00:50,930 --> 00:00:52,450 Snow in Burma? No. 17 00:00:52,450 --> 00:00:54,370 Switzerland. That's where they make me go. 18 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:34,050 Hello and welcome to Goompod. Now we many times on this 19 00:01:34,050 --> 00:01:36,770 podcast we talk about. Well obviously we talk about the 20 00:01:36,770 --> 00:01:40,050 goons, of course, but very often, almost every episode 21 00:01:40,050 --> 00:01:47,290 there's there's at least one reference to The Beatles, and 22 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:50,090 more often than not there's also a reference to. 23 00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:56,980 The Beatles producer George Martin and my guest today is a 24 00:01:56,980 --> 00:02:03,780 gentleman who has a very wide and varied interest in George 25 00:02:03,780 --> 00:02:08,100 Martin, to the extent that he has a podcast celebrating George 26 00:02:08,100 --> 00:02:12,620 Martin's work predominantly with The Beatles, both as a as a 27 00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:16,820 collective and individually. I think that's fair to say it's 28 00:02:16,820 --> 00:02:19,980 Jason Kruper from the podcast producing The Beatles. 29 00:02:20,670 --> 00:02:23,350 Hello, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to talk about 30 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:25,510 this. Yeah, I'm when I said that 31 00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:26,710 about. So it's producing The Beatles, 32 00:02:26,710 --> 00:02:29,670 but it's also, I mean you've covered Live and Let Die very 33 00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:31,030 recently, haven't you? Right. 34 00:02:31,030 --> 00:02:34,910 I sort of. The main thrust is Beatles 35 00:02:34,910 --> 00:02:37,110 together. But I decided I just thought I'd 36 00:02:37,110 --> 00:02:39,870 try something after the first season. 37 00:02:39,870 --> 00:02:41,910 Just a few bonus episodes on solo song. 38 00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:47,110 So I've done a John song to do George songs just because I. 39 00:02:47,170 --> 00:02:49,730 I Co wrote a book on the making of all Things Must Pass and I 40 00:02:49,730 --> 00:02:53,930 had a lot of material and and then and then live and let die. 41 00:02:54,610 --> 00:02:57,090 You know, I I say that it's about The Beatles, but it's 42 00:02:57,490 --> 00:02:59,130 indefinitely. It is about The Beatles. 43 00:02:59,130 --> 00:03:02,930 But I'm using that also as an excuse to teach music and to 44 00:03:02,930 --> 00:03:06,210 talk about how recordings are made and and how technology 45 00:03:06,210 --> 00:03:09,570 worked back then and you know, really how collaboration. 46 00:03:09,570 --> 00:03:14,310 Works great and. Your name is Jason Krupa, no 47 00:03:14,310 --> 00:03:16,310 relation to Gene. I take it there is a. 48 00:03:16,310 --> 00:03:21,230 Family story, which I've only recently sort of confirmed that 49 00:03:21,550 --> 00:03:25,990 that I we're distantly related that I have my my last name is 50 00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:34,310 spelled KRUPPA, his is KRUPA, both Hungarian, and we recently 51 00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:37,390 my brother recently found confirmation that. 52 00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:40,350 There is a relation, the reason the names are different, this is 53 00:03:40,350 --> 00:03:41,710 more than you probably want to get into. 54 00:03:41,710 --> 00:03:44,790 But the reason the names are different is because his 55 00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:50,230 ancestor in the 19th century came over first and that was the 56 00:03:50,230 --> 00:03:53,310 original name. And then my ancestor direct 57 00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:57,150 ancestor came over who is his brother or cousin or something 58 00:03:57,510 --> 00:04:01,630 and to differentiate he added an extra P And so we've we've 59 00:04:01,630 --> 00:04:03,070 recently found documentation to that. 60 00:04:03,070 --> 00:04:04,830 So I'm going to say short answer is yes. 61 00:04:06,470 --> 00:04:09,630 I can't think of any other. Famous notable groupers. 62 00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:11,790 To be honest, no, I don't Think about it. 63 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:13,750 You, you and Jean? Yes. 64 00:04:14,350 --> 00:04:16,310 I wouldn't say I'm quite as famous as Jean, but, you know, 65 00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:21,190 give me time. I think originally you suggested 66 00:04:21,430 --> 00:04:26,350 coming on to talk about George Martin's work with Peter and 67 00:04:26,350 --> 00:04:29,830 Spike in the 50s and the 60s, but. 68 00:04:30,780 --> 00:04:33,260 Around the time that you suggested that I'd I'd already, 69 00:04:33,660 --> 00:04:36,420 I think I was in the in the process of beginning to record 70 00:04:36,620 --> 00:04:39,060 an episode about George Martin with Andrew Hickey. 71 00:04:39,780 --> 00:04:41,460 So just slightly missed the boat on that. 72 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:45,500 But you then suggested that you'd like to come on and talk 73 00:04:45,500 --> 00:04:53,860 about the 1962 LP that Spike, Peter and friends recorded, 74 00:04:54,580 --> 00:04:59,980 which is the the famous bridge on the river YLP. 75 00:05:01,540 --> 00:05:05,780 Produced by George Martin. Yes, of course it's borrowed 76 00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:09,620 heavily. The script borrowed heavily from 77 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:13,980 The Goon Show episode African Incident from the eighth series, 78 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:16,500 Right of The Goon Show. Have you heard that? 79 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:17,420 Yes. Oh yes. 80 00:05:17,540 --> 00:05:19,580 I've actually listened to it again last night. 81 00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:22,860 But I will maybe get into this. I don't want to interrupt. 82 00:05:23,580 --> 00:05:23,980 You. Yeah, yeah. 83 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:27,580 OK, OK. Before we started recording, I 84 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:31,300 asked you if you. You know obviously you come on 85 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:32,860 to talk about bridge on the river, why? 86 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:37,140 And it's I guess it's mainly off the back of your interest in 87 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:40,100 George Martin. So I said prior to us hitting 88 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:43,700 record, I said no, do you, did you have an interest in the 89 00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:46,620 goons as well? And you said to me, yeah, but it 90 00:05:46,620 --> 00:05:49,700 kind of it, it, it kind of came about because of your interest 91 00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:52,180 in George Martin. Do you want to elaborate on 92 00:05:52,180 --> 00:05:52,940 that? Right. 93 00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:56,740 So I mean this, let's even back up a little farther. 94 00:05:57,070 --> 00:06:02,070 Than that about 20 years ago I I got obsessed with the Revolver 95 00:06:02,070 --> 00:06:07,350 album and I started looking into you know how all those sounds 96 00:06:07,350 --> 00:06:09,390 were made, how they did, all they did there were there were 97 00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:13,350 really no books on this. Obviously Mark Lewison's books 98 00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:16,510 which are very important but really you know going into the 99 00:06:16,510 --> 00:06:18,830 background of how they accomplished all of this in 100 00:06:18,830 --> 00:06:24,390 their recordings and and as I began looking and and trying to 101 00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:26,740 figure this out. I realized that George Martin 102 00:06:26,740 --> 00:06:29,660 was really central to this. And then I started looking into 103 00:06:29,660 --> 00:06:34,980 his books and in interviews with him and I started hitting this 104 00:06:34,980 --> 00:06:37,980 wall where there was, you know, sort of this hint at, oh, well, 105 00:06:37,980 --> 00:06:39,900 these comedy recordings are really important. 106 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:42,860 But that was it. There was, there was no study of 107 00:06:42,860 --> 00:06:44,940 the comedy recordings. There was no one who had really 108 00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:49,300 done any research in depth. There were a few titles that 109 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:53,220 were, you know, Martin had mentioned and that came up in 110 00:06:53,540 --> 00:06:57,080 Internet searches, but. A lot of it was just a blank and 111 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,560 I thought this, you know, there's something here I I have 112 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,400 to dig deeper. So I started collecting all of 113 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,920 this material and reading and and obviously ran into Peter 114 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:12,280 Sellers and Spike Milligan and the Goons, and I was already 115 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,680 familiar with Peter Sellers. I grew up in the 70s, so my 116 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,520 parents were big fans of the Pink Panther films and I. 117 00:07:21,930 --> 00:07:24,770 Came to see some of the other films, Doctor Strangelove and 118 00:07:24,930 --> 00:07:28,170 being there sort of as I as I got older and then I became more 119 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:31,290 interested, you know, just in general through film I think 120 00:07:31,290 --> 00:07:35,490 too. And so all of these threads 121 00:07:35,490 --> 00:07:40,730 started to come together and once I started realizing how 122 00:07:40,730 --> 00:07:45,010 important the recordings with Peter Sellers were, you know, I 123 00:07:45,010 --> 00:07:49,610 dug deeper into that and eventually it turned from. 124 00:07:50,270 --> 00:07:52,350 Strictly research about Revolver. 125 00:07:52,510 --> 00:07:55,270 I thought, you know, I would do a book on Revolver back then, 126 00:07:55,270 --> 00:07:59,230 and I abandoned that. And then it became this really 127 00:07:59,230 --> 00:08:04,270 insane rabbit hole of George Martin's career, specifically 128 00:08:04,270 --> 00:08:07,190 with The Beatles, but also before The Beatles and how that 129 00:08:07,190 --> 00:08:11,830 work informed his understanding of the studio and how how that 130 00:08:11,830 --> 00:08:16,070 helped them be able to use the studio in a creative way. 131 00:08:17,870 --> 00:08:22,740 I met Mark Cousins in London. Mark Lewis and introduced us and 132 00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:27,140 he you know obviously has a long history with Goon show 133 00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:33,220 preservation society and he, he gave me a disc of all the extant 134 00:08:33,419 --> 00:08:38,460 shows meant this is many years ago And so I, you know I 135 00:08:38,460 --> 00:08:41,980 listened to all of them during that period and then you know 136 00:08:41,980 --> 00:08:45,060 sort of went back and and focused on specific ones and 137 00:08:45,060 --> 00:08:48,980 then when I came to River Yi obviously dove into. 138 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:54,690 The African incident. So that's how all that's kind of 139 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:59,410 developed and overlapped. And as an American, how did you 140 00:08:59,690 --> 00:09:02,770 find the Goon Show in terms of how was it completely 141 00:09:02,770 --> 00:09:05,650 incomprehensible when you first the first few you listened to? 142 00:09:05,650 --> 00:09:07,330 Initially it was. It was. 143 00:09:07,570 --> 00:09:12,890 I didn't expect it to be so fast, and I remember just 144 00:09:12,890 --> 00:09:15,650 listening and hanging on for dear life at first. 145 00:09:16,780 --> 00:09:20,340 And and and then, you know, as I, as I became more accustomed 146 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:23,300 to it, I I was able to follow it more closely. 147 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:27,340 And I I listened to several episodes last night, actually 148 00:09:27,340 --> 00:09:30,300 the African incident and then a few others just to sort of 149 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:32,500 refresh because there were a couple of things I wanted to 150 00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:35,260 just check. And it, you know, it seemed 151 00:09:35,260 --> 00:09:37,780 perfectly fine. Now it was, it was just that 152 00:09:37,780 --> 00:09:42,860 thing of becoming accustomed to the speed of it and the asides 153 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:44,720 and. You know, all the switches of 154 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,440 accents and then being able to identify who is speaking as what 155 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,960 character. That took time. 156 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,480 But yeah, I mean, I think I have a pretty good handle on it now. 157 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,760 Okay, funny you mentioned Mark Cousins. 158 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,320 I actually was in contact with him yesterday. 159 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,200 Just asking him for some couple of points about bridge on the 160 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:07,360 river. Why actually? 161 00:10:08,620 --> 00:10:11,420 I sent him a lot of the paperwork I'd copied at EMI 162 00:10:11,420 --> 00:10:15,340 years ago, and I know he made trips himself, so he he may have 163 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:18,860 a few other things I don't have. I dug out as much Peter Sellers 164 00:10:18,860 --> 00:10:22,700 material and spike material as they would give me because some 165 00:10:22,700 --> 00:10:25,860 things have been misfiled and you know they may show up later. 166 00:10:26,620 --> 00:10:29,260 Yeah, yeah. If anyone knows anything about 167 00:10:29,260 --> 00:10:32,940 this LP, there's one fact that always you know, if you read a 168 00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:38,110 Milligan biography or. Seller's biography If this LP 169 00:10:38,110 --> 00:10:42,310 gets mentioned at all, there's one fact that always gets 170 00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:44,270 trotted out. I'm sure you know what that is. 171 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:47,830 Yes, it was originally going to be called Bridge on the River 172 00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:53,590 Kwai, and they actually got so far as actually recording it as 173 00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:58,150 Kwai throughout the recording and then because of complaints 174 00:10:58,150 --> 00:11:00,840 from. Who would it have been from? 175 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,000 Columbia Pictures, I think. Columbia Pictures George Martin 176 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:15,040 had to go and clip out the K from the word Kwai, which we're 177 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,360 listening to it myself this weekend. 178 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,280 Sometimes you barely notice the edit, but sometimes you really 179 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,360 do, don't you? Yeah, and I had really hoped to 180 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:32,280 find a memo at EMI. That confirmed this and laid it 181 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,360 out and said you must change this, but nothing. 182 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,520 Unfortunately, I I didn't find any correspondence about this at 183 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,800 all. I found session paperwork, but 184 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,000 unfortunately nothing about that. 185 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,280 One thing that I that I did notice is that it's really only 186 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:50,880 mentioned. I think it's eight times 187 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:56,880 throughout the recording and the edit was done after the voice 188 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,830 recording, but. Prior to the sound effects and 189 00:12:01,950 --> 00:12:06,590 the orchestral overdubs, so it would have been relatively easy. 190 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:09,550 It's not like they had to cut it out of the finished production. 191 00:12:10,030 --> 00:12:13,670 We present the bridge over the River Kwai, subsequently the 192 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:17,350 lawsuit over the River Kwai and finally Ministry of Hygiene 193 00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:19,990 Annual report on the River Kwai. But it is. 194 00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:24,710 It is nonsensical because the story is exactly the same and 195 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:26,580 the sleeve note. I don't know if you've seen them 196 00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:28,380 in the back of the Lt. which I have here. 197 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:30,220 It's, and it's it's just ridiculous. 198 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:36,340 So they're not fooling anybody, but because if you listen to it, 199 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:37,660 you know exactly what's going on. 200 00:12:39,100 --> 00:12:42,580 Are you fond of the the film? Yes, I haven't actually seen it 201 00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:48,100 in a long time, but I'm a big Alec Guinness fan and a man in 202 00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:51,540 the white suit and you know, all the all those are those 50s 203 00:12:51,860 --> 00:12:54,770 films. And there's another connection 204 00:12:54,770 --> 00:12:57,210 to George Martin, man in the white suit, which we won't get 205 00:12:57,210 --> 00:12:58,290 on that tangent. But anyway. 206 00:12:59,490 --> 00:13:03,250 Well, he had produced a recording of the theme tune with 207 00:13:05,290 --> 00:13:08,570 a bit of the gurgling sound effect in that film. 208 00:13:09,610 --> 00:13:14,250 Okay. Yes, and he used that as a cue 209 00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:17,930 to the recording. I think it was Jack Parnell was 210 00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:20,350 the artist. And so that's that's the 211 00:13:20,350 --> 00:13:23,590 beginning of the recording and it's this early example of Music 212 00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:27,710 Concrete where he's taking, he's taking a found sound and he's 213 00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:31,150 working it into a piece of music. 214 00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:35,590 That's interesting, right? So yeah, Bridge on the River 215 00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:38,910 Kwai, the film, it's about 8 hours long, right? 216 00:13:39,510 --> 00:13:42,910 But I only saw it for the first time a couple of years ago and I 217 00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:45,550 really enjoyed it and it is amazing. 218 00:13:46,190 --> 00:13:51,610 Well, it is quite. Notable how closely this LP, the 219 00:13:51,610 --> 00:13:55,530 script of this LP follows the script of Right Bridge on the 220 00:13:55,530 --> 00:14:00,170 River Kwai. Obviously not, not totally 221 00:14:00,170 --> 00:14:02,410 faithfully, but. The general shape of it. 222 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:07,130 Though the general shape of it, each major scene in the film has 223 00:14:07,130 --> 00:14:11,450 its corresponding scene in this and it's it's interesting as 224 00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:13,650 well because more and more doing this pod, you know doing this 225 00:14:13,650 --> 00:14:16,370 podcast and taking time to actually look at. 226 00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:21,850 The, the the historical context when the goon shows were written 227 00:14:21,850 --> 00:14:25,770 and and broadcast. More and more I'm finding out 228 00:14:25,770 --> 00:14:31,730 that Spike was writing parodies of film and television programs. 229 00:14:32,170 --> 00:14:35,930 In some cases, you know, literally 2-3 weeks after the 230 00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:39,250 film or television series. Right, right. 231 00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:43,410 This went out, Yeah, that that film premiered in October and 232 00:14:43,410 --> 00:14:45,250 then into wider release later in the month. 233 00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:47,170 And this this was out what, in December? 234 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,320 Yeah, African incident. So, yeah, really quickly. 235 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,520 Yeah. So I don't really know. 236 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,960 I've not been able to find out very much at all about the 237 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,200 background to the recording of this of the LP, the 9062 LP, 238 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,560 right. So I we we do know that it was 239 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,440 recorded on Wednesday the 23rd of May. 240 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,600 Now Mark Cousins believes that it was, it was all done in the 241 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,160 morning. The the recording sheet. 242 00:15:16,530 --> 00:15:20,130 Said if they booked out two sessions one morning and and one 243 00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:24,130 afternoon for lunch after lunch break and but they finished 244 00:15:24,130 --> 00:15:27,450 everything by 1:00 o'clock and so they packed up and went home 245 00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:31,170 May 23rd, studio 2. Wow. 246 00:15:31,250 --> 00:15:35,130 But then again, you think about it's only it's about 33 minutes 247 00:15:35,130 --> 00:15:38,410 in length and totally. And if you think you know the 248 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:41,690 the the Goon Show, a couple of years before Spike and Pizza 249 00:15:41,690 --> 00:15:44,010 were doing this every week. Yeah, more or less. 250 00:15:44,580 --> 00:15:47,700 Do we know who came up with the the idea of recording this and 251 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,860 why? Well, the short version of that 252 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:54,300 is, I think it was George Martin and the reason I believe that is 253 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:57,140 a much longer answer. I don't know if this is where 254 00:15:57,140 --> 00:15:59,420 you want to really get into the background, but it's it's 255 00:15:59,420 --> 00:16:03,580 probably as good a time as any to well I can sort of sort of, 256 00:16:03,580 --> 00:16:06,220 yeah, I mean give you the wide view of this and then zoom in. 257 00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:10,700 One thing that interests me is that less than a month before, 258 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,580 George had been best man at Spikes writing, right? 259 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:20,040 And I just, and I was wondering, I wonder if no, because it would 260 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,200 have been too soon, they couldn't have just decided it, 261 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,120 right, you know, during the winter, during. 262 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,320 The oh, by the way, yeah, on that hectic car ride up the 263 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,040 lead, you know. That's right. 264 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,120 Yeah. So I just yeah, you just 265 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,520 wondered, but So what? What? 266 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,080 What You said you've got a rather sort of labyrinthine 267 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,570 supposition, so go ahead. So we know, I mean general 268 00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:47,770 knowledge is that George Martin by the late 50s had come to 269 00:16:47,770 --> 00:16:51,170 understand that, you know, comedy was a niche that he could 270 00:16:51,170 --> 00:16:55,170 begin exploring and and you know, began putting more energy 271 00:16:55,170 --> 00:16:57,570 into that, began having more hits with those records. 272 00:16:58,410 --> 00:17:03,970 And part of that was that he began recording comedy albums, 273 00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:08,690 not just singles, you know, Charlie Drake and and various 274 00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:10,089 things like that, but also albums. 275 00:17:10,089 --> 00:17:11,730 So at the drop of the hat is the. 276 00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:17,630 First, first iteration of that with Flanders and Swan and you 277 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:19,910 know. Then he followed that with Best 278 00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:23,710 of Sellers and the other two Sellers albums, two more 279 00:17:23,710 --> 00:17:30,390 Flanders and Swan albums. In all he did he released 20 of 280 00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:35,070 what we could call comedy Lp's, and the majority of those are 281 00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:37,630 either transcriptions of stage shows. 282 00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:40,110 They're the two best of the Goon shows Lp's. 283 00:17:42,350 --> 00:17:44,870 There's the that was the week that was, which was just, you 284 00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:48,350 know, a bunch of TV skits that he that he added together into 285 00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:52,310 an LP. So this space that I'm talking 286 00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:58,390 about where he does these 20 albums is between 57 and 65 and 287 00:17:58,390 --> 00:18:01,590 he's still producing these into The Beatles, period. 288 00:18:03,470 --> 00:18:06,510 But there are seven in particular, the best of sellers 289 00:18:06,510 --> 00:18:09,190 Swing and sellers Peter and Sophia Milligan preserved. 290 00:18:09,540 --> 00:18:11,380 It's a Square World with Michael Benteen. 291 00:18:12,020 --> 00:18:15,100 Combination of Cribbins with Bernard Bernard Cribbins. 292 00:18:15,740 --> 00:18:18,780 Pardon me. Well done you you self 293 00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:21,580 corrected. Yourself corrected and and the 294 00:18:21,820 --> 00:18:27,020 the peak of this is bridge on the river why this this I think 295 00:18:27,380 --> 00:18:32,340 is the sort of the pinnacle of his comedy productions his it's 296 00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:35,860 an ambitious recording it's he puts a lot of effort into this 297 00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:42,270 and and. You know, historically, the leap 298 00:18:42,270 --> 00:18:43,830 that happens is that he's done this. 299 00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:45,830 He's learned how to use the studio in this very creative, 300 00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:49,510 dramatic way. And then he meets The Beatles, 301 00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:52,030 or as he's making this, he meets The Beatles. 302 00:18:52,510 --> 00:18:58,070 And then those techniques slowly begin to become beetle 303 00:18:58,070 --> 00:19:01,070 techniques. The reason I say I think it was 304 00:19:01,070 --> 00:19:06,870 his idea. I have a letter here from. 305 00:19:08,770 --> 00:19:15,810 George Martin to Michael Flanders, February 1960, and 306 00:19:16,690 --> 00:19:20,610 he's in the midst of of making these, you know, more of these 307 00:19:20,610 --> 00:19:25,530 albums. And he proposes to him using two 308 00:19:25,530 --> 00:19:30,490 of the Flanders and Swan songs, Wom Palm and In the Bath, for 309 00:19:30,490 --> 00:19:35,650 what he calls a mixed album, first class humorists that he 310 00:19:35,650 --> 00:19:40,050 wants to release in the autumn. And and he's proposing 311 00:19:40,410 --> 00:19:45,890 Eustanov's mock Mozart and phony folklore and Gerald Hofnung's 312 00:19:46,450 --> 00:19:50,250 address to the Cambridge Union and and he says one or two other 313 00:19:50,250 --> 00:19:54,530 tracks of similar quality. So he's he's pitching this album 314 00:19:54,530 --> 00:19:56,050 is never compiled never released. 315 00:19:57,810 --> 00:20:00,970 But he's you know he's pitching these ideas he's he's thinking 316 00:20:00,970 --> 00:20:03,170 like okay. I've got a rich vein here that 317 00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:05,450 I'm mining and no one else is really doing this I'm going to. 318 00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:10,850 I'm going to see if I can you know make make a little you know 319 00:20:11,050 --> 00:20:14,450 little money for Parla phone or you know make a little impact on 320 00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:15,970 the charts. He's seeing some commercial 321 00:20:15,970 --> 00:20:21,050 value to this. So I I think you know must have 322 00:20:21,050 --> 00:20:25,570 come in conversation with Spike at some point whether it's 323 00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:29,250 during the wedding or you know that hectic drive or somewhere 324 00:20:31,090 --> 00:20:34,710 you know he he might have said. You know why don't we do, why 325 00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:37,710 don't we do one of the goon shows as an LP like a properly 326 00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:42,470 produced LP and behind you know he had done Milligan preserved 327 00:20:43,230 --> 00:20:48,430 in 61 that was released in 61 and it that took almost bits and 328 00:20:48,430 --> 00:20:50,230 pieces. This was all done sort of piece 329 00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:55,910 meal over about a year I think and then the Michael Bentine LP 330 00:20:57,030 --> 00:21:01,270 was done over the course of 11 months off and on and. 331 00:21:02,810 --> 00:21:07,850 He that again the the Ventin LP is I would say almost as 332 00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:11,690 important as the River YLP because he put so much 333 00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:15,250 production work into that. Stewart Eltham the engineer who 334 00:21:15,250 --> 00:21:18,290 worked with him very closely on his recordings, worked so hard 335 00:21:18,290 --> 00:21:21,370 on it that he actually gave him a sleeve credit which engineers 336 00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:26,170 never got on projects like this and Martin was was putting his 337 00:21:26,690 --> 00:21:29,490 his credit as produced by George Martin. 338 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,640 Not artists and repertoire, not recording manager produced by 339 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,080 George Martin. He really wanted to you know say 340 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,040 this is, this is what I'm doing. I'm, you know I'm I'm putting a 341 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,040 stamp on this. So I think you know coming out 342 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:49,040 of the production with the Sellers albums with with Spike 343 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,040 with the Benteen LPI think he's looking for his next project 344 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,600 that he can you know do something creative. 345 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,640 And for whatever reason, I, you know, this was it. 346 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,760 Here comes the old man. I better slip out of this dress. 347 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,200 Eyes front, that is. Gentlemen. 348 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,520 I understand you all wanted to see me. 349 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,200 Yeah, but the men want to know what your views are on escaping 350 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,120 time. Escape in where from? 351 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,760 Yes. Escape in from here. 352 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,560 Is it something I have said? Well. 353 00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:29,390 One of the men has already planned to make a break, Sir. 354 00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:31,710 Is he mad? He has a certificate, Sir. 355 00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:35,070 It means sudden death. It is a death certificate, Sir. 356 00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:37,630 I see him. Who is this man? 357 00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:39,830 Me. My good mind. 358 00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:44,350 Well, off you go then. Wait a moment. 359 00:22:44,350 --> 00:22:48,030 Wait one moment. I haven't seen you around this 360 00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:51,390 camp before. I didn't know you cared. 361 00:22:52,750 --> 00:22:55,710 Where were you captured? I wasn't. 362 00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:57,430 I was sent there by the British Army. 363 00:22:58,590 --> 00:23:02,150 What's your name? Field Marshall Echo. 364 00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:09,470 Typing error. How did you attain this rank, 365 00:23:10,030 --> 00:23:14,790 Sir? I was Bapti Field Marshall Echo. 366 00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:18,830 And and of course, you've got Spike in pizza. 367 00:23:19,870 --> 00:23:22,670 You haven't got Harry. Harry's under contract of 368 00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:25,200 Phillips, so he's. Yeah, yeah. 369 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,120 But you've got, you've got up and coming young upstarts, 370 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,160 Jonathan Miller and Peter Cook, fatal at you know at around this 371 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,760 time obviously for things like beyond the fringe I guess as 372 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,080 because you know like you say Seeking wasn't available, it was 373 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,880 a good opportunity to bring in the the the younger generation. 374 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,380 Would that be fair? Yeah, I think so. 375 00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:52,940 And coincidentally, Martin was recording a new version of the 376 00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:55,420 Beyond the Fringe LP for the US market. 377 00:23:56,540 --> 00:23:59,940 The original was in 1961, and he actually did three recordings of 378 00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:04,460 that on stage to get to get the final LP. 379 00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:07,820 He he wanted to keep making sure he because he really believed in 380 00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:13,080 that show, and for good reason. As you know, as we all have, I 381 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,360 don't know how you know people's backgrounds are, but I'm sure 382 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,160 most people know Beyond the Fringe is sort of, you know, it 383 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,760 was credited with the quote UN quote satire boom, which all of 384 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,640 them reject, of course rejected. So he at this very same time he 385 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:35,280 was about to record the LP with them in Studio 2 with an invited 386 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,580 audience of 100 and 5200 people. So all these lines were crossing 387 00:24:40,660 --> 00:24:43,580 and I think you know, you probably, he probably mentioned 388 00:24:43,580 --> 00:24:46,820 it and you know whether you mentioned the spike or mentioned 389 00:24:46,820 --> 00:24:50,700 it to be on the fringe guys, probably the spike and he said 390 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,060 oh that's a great idea, let's bring him in. 391 00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:56,820 There's also a third person beyond the fringe. 392 00:24:58,420 --> 00:25:01,820 Well, if that's the thing, because I've I've known this LP 393 00:25:02,180 --> 00:25:04,660 for many many many years. Very familiar. 394 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,160 But I've never really sat down and looked. 395 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,760 I didn't have the LP. I only had the I had a cassette 396 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,920 recording of Bridge on the River, Why? 397 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,720 And there's no credits at the end as per, for example, a Goon 398 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,880 show. So I just assumed because I'd 399 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,040 heard his voice that Dudley Moore was involved. 400 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,120 But if you look on the if you look on the actual LP, on the 401 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,760 sleeve notes, there's there's Cook, there's Cook, there's 402 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,200 Miller, there's Sellers, there's Milligan, there's even. 403 00:25:35,780 --> 00:25:40,020 Patricia Ridgway, the recently new Mrs. Milligan. 404 00:25:41,380 --> 00:25:47,860 And there's a there's a listing for a piece of Raleigh, which I 405 00:25:47,860 --> 00:25:49,700 gather was a pseudonym for Dudley Moore. 406 00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:53,980 And I've I've never found anything about why that was the 407 00:25:53,980 --> 00:25:59,740 case because it's clearly him and he you know he was there's a 408 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:02,740 there's another thread with this is that he was under contract as 409 00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:06,480 a. Jazz artist to Parla Phone and 410 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,160 George Martin recorded 21 songs with him with his trio around 411 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,920 this time, which was never released. 412 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,960 And so the, you know, his involvement is sort of like he's 413 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,960 with the Beyond the Friend group, but it's also he's he's 414 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,760 got another connection to Martin just as a musical artist. 415 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,880 Yeah, they couldn't use his real name for contractual reasons. 416 00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:31,230 And so they came up with this name, Peter Rowley, which was 417 00:26:31,230 --> 00:26:33,150 the name of Spikes agent at the time. 418 00:26:33,310 --> 00:26:36,430 Oh, OK. That I did not know. 419 00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:39,190 OK, that's good information. So when was it? 420 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:42,030 What day was it? I should know this that Martin 421 00:26:42,030 --> 00:26:43,750 meets The Beatles for the first time? 422 00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:49,470 So that is June 6th and this recording is done May 23rd. 423 00:26:49,550 --> 00:26:53,390 And then the the Fringe rerecording is June the 3rd. 424 00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:57,430 So this is all happening, you know, right around the same 425 00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:59,550 time. Yeah, and The Beatles are 426 00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:03,070 obviously the lowest priority of these these three things 427 00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:07,750 happening at this point. Something else that interests me 428 00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:10,870 about the sleeve notes, and I'm going to read the sleeve notes 429 00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:14,350 if you don't mind. It's quite interesting, just 430 00:27:14,350 --> 00:27:17,710 just just in terms of how fast things were moving gives you, 431 00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:22,350 gives you a a good indication because it says it is not 432 00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:24,630 generally realized today that the beautiful English 433 00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:26,390 countryside bordering the river. Why? 434 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,480 Was once the scene of great drama. 435 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680 Many years ago, one of our greatest generals was an 436 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,200 undercover agent for MI5. He was given the code number of 437 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,840 oh oh oh 007, being given a free license to kill when he gagged 438 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,520 that he didn't like. Known to the world at large as 439 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,880 Eccles, he appeared subsequently in the cake of the same name, 440 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,360 terrorizing the enemies of his native land. 441 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,440 His exploits, as you will hear, were achieved alone, unaided, 442 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,710 and completely without a brain. For who else but echoes could 443 00:27:55,710 --> 00:27:58,110 outwit A hoard of Japanese soldiers and blow up a bridge 444 00:27:58,110 --> 00:28:01,710 with practically no arms, no mean feat, as the Oriental say. 445 00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:04,470 This, then, is the epic story that you're about to hear. 446 00:28:04,910 --> 00:28:08,190 One word of warning, for obvious security reasons, none of these 447 00:28:08,190 --> 00:28:11,030 men ever existed, and any resemblance to anyone either 448 00:28:11,030 --> 00:28:13,230 living or dead is share. Good luck. 449 00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:16,790 And for the best results, play this record in a circular 450 00:28:16,790 --> 00:28:20,870 fashion. So what jumped out at me 451 00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:21,590 immediately? This. 452 00:28:21,710 --> 00:28:23,870 I mean, obviously I know that James Bond was, you know? 453 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:29,860 The novels had been out for 10 years or more, but they recorded 454 00:28:29,860 --> 00:28:34,140 this in May. Doctor No didn't come out until 455 00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:38,660 was it October the 5th, same day as Love Me Do and and the LP 456 00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:41,460 Bridge on the River Y comes out the following month. 457 00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:46,540 So it was the the sleeve notes there when the the reference to 458 00:28:46,540 --> 00:28:48,820 Bond, it's like Bond mania already. 459 00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:52,660 Is that is that your feeling? Possibly so. 460 00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:57,430 In this album has been in production since, you know, 461 00:28:57,470 --> 00:29:00,830 starting in May and then the sleeve notes could have been 462 00:29:00,830 --> 00:29:06,270 written really at any time. Martin was, you know, working in 463 00:29:06,270 --> 00:29:08,470 this very small industry in London, so he would have been 464 00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:14,950 aware maybe of the, you know, the at least the production of 465 00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:18,090 Doctor know. So, you know, these things may 466 00:29:18,090 --> 00:29:21,010 have been filtering to him in ways that we can't know just 467 00:29:21,010 --> 00:29:22,810 because, you know, we weren't there at the time. 468 00:29:23,330 --> 00:29:26,650 But he may have had some inkling of what was, you know, what was 469 00:29:26,650 --> 00:29:29,850 happening. It could, it could just be some, 470 00:29:30,010 --> 00:29:31,610 you know. Sort of. 471 00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:35,370 One off thing. Where Spikes or or George 472 00:29:35,370 --> 00:29:38,250 Martin. Whoever wrote this just thinks, 473 00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:39,610 oh this will be funny. This is current. 474 00:29:39,610 --> 00:29:43,130 This is, you know what, what's on people's minds right now. 475 00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:50,490 And it's also interesting to note that it's Angela Morley, 476 00:29:50,490 --> 00:29:53,410 but obviously under the name of Wally Start, The dead name Wally 477 00:29:53,410 --> 00:30:01,370 Start who's doing the music And not my cousins, pointed out to 478 00:30:01,370 --> 00:30:03,170 me, not Ron Goodwin, right at all. 479 00:30:03,170 --> 00:30:04,730 George Martin's other comedy records. 480 00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:10,290 Is this purely, do you think, because of the fact that it's so 481 00:30:10,970 --> 00:30:14,940 strongly linked to a goon show? I do. 482 00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:19,380 And I, you know, I I noticed this last night and I'm 483 00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:22,020 convinced that there are probably more examples of this, 484 00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:26,660 but at least one of the pieces of music, the orchestral music, 485 00:30:26,660 --> 00:30:39,860 is repurposed from a goon show. I haven't. 486 00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:41,580 I didn't find any paperwork about. 487 00:30:42,150 --> 00:30:45,950 Rerecording that music. So I don't know if they were 488 00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:49,070 able to somehow, I mean they recorded, they played that live 489 00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:52,590 for the Goon show, those those pieces live. 490 00:30:52,590 --> 00:30:55,070 So I don't think they would have had a separate recording. 491 00:30:56,790 --> 00:30:59,350 But you know, maybe it was just easier where Martin says, OK, I 492 00:30:59,350 --> 00:31:01,710 need these pieces, can you come in and record this in an 493 00:31:01,710 --> 00:31:04,710 afternoon? Yeah, So what else did you 494 00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:10,630 discover when you were at EMI? So this is recorded in. 495 00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:15,660 In May and then they I don't see any evidence they're doing any 496 00:31:17,060 --> 00:31:19,380 dedicated work to it until September. 497 00:31:20,380 --> 00:31:25,540 So on September 20th, 8:45 AM, Stuart Eltham is at Wellington 498 00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:28,700 Barracks, W Guard Room for a recording of marching feet. 499 00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:33,290 All right. And Martin had, you know, in his 500 00:31:33,290 --> 00:31:37,410 in his all you need his ears book says that he went to a 501 00:31:37,410 --> 00:31:40,250 green grocers and he and he bought a head of lettuce and he 502 00:31:40,290 --> 00:31:44,930 used it as a sound effect, chopping it for decapitation. 503 00:31:44,930 --> 00:31:47,050 But there's no, you know, there's no decapitation in this. 504 00:31:48,010 --> 00:31:50,890 So I wonder if he was thinking maybe he went to the grocer and 505 00:31:50,890 --> 00:31:54,610 he he got, you know leafy lettuce or something and shook 506 00:31:54,610 --> 00:31:56,490 that to make it sound like they're walking through the 507 00:31:56,490 --> 00:32:00,380 jungle. Yes, I don't know that's you 508 00:32:00,380 --> 00:32:06,860 know plausible, but so that that that aside from you know the 509 00:32:06,860 --> 00:32:11,660 release card which is initially December 62 and then they push 510 00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:15,740 it for whatever reason to January 63, that's really the 511 00:32:15,740 --> 00:32:19,500 only other information I found. The rest of it has just been 512 00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,340 sort of piercing things together and listening very carefully and 513 00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:25,020 and comparing to African incident and. 514 00:32:25,790 --> 00:32:30,070 And literally counting sound effects I went through, and I 515 00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:32,430 think it's 40 sound, 40 different sound effects they 516 00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:36,550 have, some of which are very familiar gunshots that you know. 517 00:32:36,550 --> 00:32:38,550 Anyone who's listening to the Zune show will say, oh, I 518 00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:40,230 recognize that, you know that sound. 519 00:32:41,150 --> 00:32:44,670 Yeah, yeah, cuz African incident. 520 00:32:45,270 --> 00:32:49,670 The the the major difference is that it in in African incident 521 00:32:49,670 --> 00:32:53,970 the Germans of the oppressors. Whereas obviously, because this 522 00:32:53,970 --> 00:32:58,490 is a parody of well, yeah, so it was a parody. 523 00:32:58,490 --> 00:33:01,170 African Incident was written to parody the film Bridge on the 524 00:33:01,170 --> 00:33:05,530 River Kwai, but obviously they changed it sufficiently. 525 00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:09,650 I wonder if they had to change it sufficiently so as not to 526 00:33:10,410 --> 00:33:14,610 perhaps get into trouble. And by by 62 they had a bit 527 00:33:14,610 --> 00:33:16,370 more. Well, mind you, they couldn't 528 00:33:16,370 --> 00:33:19,450 use the word Kwai, could they? But but bridge on the river? 529 00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:23,760 Why in 62? The Japanese are the presses, as 530 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:29,920 in the film, and we keep shuttling between the two 531 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,080 different versions. But African Incident is quite 532 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:39,960 unusual in that it's got 3 three major characters who aren't part 533 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,960 of the usual what what I would call goon, goon show, rap 534 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:50,360 company, Okay, it's got, it's got major spawn, which is 535 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,830 sellers. Channeling Guinness. 536 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:56,630 Alec Guinness. That's it, man. 537 00:33:57,110 --> 00:34:01,950 Sure, we're still so done. It's got a Lieutenant Terence 538 00:34:01,950 --> 00:34:07,310 plot, which is Spike doing a a plucky Britisher kind of 539 00:34:07,310 --> 00:34:10,070 character. My name's Lieutenant Terence 540 00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:15,389 Plot and. You've got General Von Gutern 541 00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:19,350 again, which is Spike. Welcome to Camp Rudnorf. 542 00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:23,550 My name is General Vaughn Guter. So you know you don't have 543 00:34:23,550 --> 00:34:27,030 characters like Minnie and Henry, don't have grit pipe thin 544 00:34:28,030 --> 00:34:32,909 and you've also got and it's very bizarre when you when it's 545 00:34:33,590 --> 00:34:38,389 almost jarring when you hear her speak, you've got a female right 546 00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:43,469 in the in the shape of Cecile Chevre, who I gather was bought 547 00:34:43,469 --> 00:34:47,909 in because she has one scene which is a romantic scene with 548 00:34:47,909 --> 00:34:50,600 blood knock. And I gather they brought her 549 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,639 in. Cuz Sella's would have struggled 550 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,639 to do both together, so they needed an actual female. 551 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,480 So they so they asked Cecile Chevro to come in. 552 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,760 I don't know how they knew her or how that came about. 553 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,640 Is this what English call embarrassing situation? 554 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,720 Well, yes. I mean, after all, I mean me 555 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:16,120 halfway up a tree dressed as Timon of Athens and you white 556 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,200 washing the grass well. No one to believe us, you see? 557 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:26,800 Come let us dance. Yes, after all, even though 558 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,560 we're in the jungle, we're still civilized, aren't we? 559 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,240 I'll put this record on my portable military grammar for 560 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,120 what a strange sight it must have been. 561 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,880 Me and the dusky beauty tangling through the dense jungle on 562 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,430 foot. I only had eyes for him, and he 563 00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:54,750 only had eyes for me. That explains why we fell over a 564 00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:57,270 Cliff. But yes, I mean the the bridge 565 00:35:57,270 --> 00:36:00,470 on the river Why is obviously expanded and an expanded version 566 00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:05,110 of African Incident with Seguin's part taken by other 567 00:36:05,110 --> 00:36:09,670 characters, largely the character of Lieutenant Cody, 568 00:36:11,550 --> 00:36:14,110 who's played by Jonathan Miller, I gather, yes. 569 00:36:14,910 --> 00:36:16,550 It does quite a good American accent, I felt. 570 00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:17,990 Yeah. And and he has one of my 571 00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:21,590 favorite lines which in total non sequitur is here comes a 572 00:36:21,590 --> 00:36:23,790 major I better get out of this dress or slip out of this dress. 573 00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:26,630 It's and it's just, you know there there are a handful of 574 00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:30,470 lines in this that have stuck in my brain over the years. 575 00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:34,430 Yeah. And of course, at some point, 576 00:36:34,430 --> 00:36:39,790 probably during our recording, I'm probably going to use some 577 00:36:39,790 --> 00:36:43,230 racially insensitive language because because I'm just quoting 578 00:36:43,230 --> 00:36:46,670 from the recording. Okay, because there's references 579 00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:51,310 to Japs, for example. Which I think, you know, not to 580 00:36:51,390 --> 00:36:54,030 defend it, but it's, you know, it's reflective of not just the 581 00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:58,070 time but also of the story, which is how you know those 582 00:36:58,830 --> 00:37:02,110 those officers and soldiers would have talked to each other. 583 00:37:03,550 --> 00:37:05,070 It could have been worse, actually. 584 00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:06,150 I think it could have been worse. 585 00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:08,990 There's a, there's a reference to keep Japan yellow and. 586 00:37:09,630 --> 00:37:12,710 As I say, you know, so bad. And of course. 587 00:37:13,330 --> 00:37:18,330 We've got the character of Frank, Frank, Frank. 588 00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:22,130 J Itchy coochie. Which itchy, I realized when you 589 00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:25,210 were talking about Ghost in the Noonday Sun is is, you know, 590 00:37:25,330 --> 00:37:29,850 clearly some distant cousin in Spike Milligan's mind of Dick 591 00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:35,490 scratcher. Yeah, just puerile sense of 592 00:37:35,490 --> 00:37:36,890 humor there. And that spike. 593 00:37:36,890 --> 00:37:42,690 But that's the the POW camp general spike. 594 00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:46,590 Doing a real, I mean, OK, it's a very offensive voice accent that 595 00:37:46,590 --> 00:37:49,270 he's putting on, but it's it's actually quite well done. 596 00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:52,350 It doesn't. I didn't it doesn't sound like 597 00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:55,590 Spy. No, he masks himself very 598 00:37:55,590 --> 00:37:57,550 effectively. I actually had to listen again 599 00:37:58,030 --> 00:37:59,950 because he's and it's in the credits on the sleeve. 600 00:37:59,950 --> 00:38:01,950 But I thought, wait a minute, is that is that really handy? 601 00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:05,990 You all are here to. Work all the police. 602 00:38:06,030 --> 00:38:11,430 Are in a camp work tomorrow you all the police are not work on 603 00:38:11,470 --> 00:38:17,450 Villarella bridge. Over river hall when you say all 604 00:38:17,490 --> 00:38:24,570 pleasanters work I take it you dont mean the officers, All the 605 00:38:24,570 --> 00:38:29,050 work, all the polisional hawk or go back to Waller. 606 00:38:30,490 --> 00:38:35,650 Perhaps you are aware of the Geneva Convention book ruling on 607 00:38:35,650 --> 00:38:39,310 officers. Have a lot to read. 608 00:38:39,310 --> 00:38:42,670 The book of Geneva conventional or I seen a film. 609 00:38:42,870 --> 00:38:45,790 Nice little touch there. The the the Alec Guinness 610 00:38:46,350 --> 00:38:50,710 character played by Sellers is is referred to as Major Barbara, 611 00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:56,750 which when I was a pretentious young teen I went through a 612 00:38:57,110 --> 00:39:00,350 period of being interested in George Bernard Shaw and that's 613 00:39:00,470 --> 00:39:02,950 George Bernard Shaw play called Major Barbara. 614 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,400 We've got Brigadier, startling grope, which is, which is 615 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,360 basically blood knock by any other name. 616 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:15,280 So this doesn't have a lot to do really. 617 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,840 I mean he plays, he plays the lead character, I guess, which 618 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:25,080 is the Guinness character and he does play a Burmese character as 619 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,680 well as, as well as startling grope. 620 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,600 But that's that's it really. And I actually got the I felt 621 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,120 that Milligan and Miller had more to do. 622 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,130 Yeah, I mean. I I this is just an aside this 623 00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:41,410 this is tangential to your question but when I first got 624 00:39:41,410 --> 00:39:45,650 this album years ago I was I didn't have my record player set 625 00:39:45,650 --> 00:39:46,810 up. So I went to my parents house 626 00:39:46,810 --> 00:39:49,450 and I was playing it and making a copy so I could listen at home 627 00:39:50,130 --> 00:39:52,970 and it was playing through the speakers and from the other room 628 00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:57,410 my mother goes is that Peter Sellers doing Alec Guinness? 629 00:39:58,210 --> 00:40:00,890 And I just thought isn't that obvious. 630 00:40:03,050 --> 00:40:07,050 Cuz I'm into it, I'm like, wow, this is listen to the production 631 00:40:07,090 --> 00:40:11,450 and the story and everything. But I mean, he really does stand 632 00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:16,210 out. I think he's so droll and so 633 00:40:16,210 --> 00:40:20,890 dry. Maybe he doesn't need to do. 634 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,840 The other thing is so here's here's another little bit of 635 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:31,040 background that I discovered in research is so Sellers is 636 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,720 working. He has just finished filming the 637 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:38,880 doc brief in March and April 62 at Shepperton. 638 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,680 And there's there's a piece in the musical New Musical Express, 639 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,920 March 9th on on George Martin's comedy records, his success with 640 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,320 these. And so it's it's, you know. 641 00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:54,310 Piece focusing on him and his artist like like Cribbins and 642 00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:59,510 Hole in the Ground and the art. The author asked him about Peter 643 00:40:59,510 --> 00:41:03,230 Sellers apparent unwillingness to do a followup to his 1960 644 00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:06,390 Peter and Sophia album and Martin responds. 645 00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:09,310 I did hear that Peter Sellers said he would never record 646 00:41:09,310 --> 00:41:13,270 again, but it's my bet he'll be in the recording studios before 647 00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:15,310 the end of the year working on another LP. 648 00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:17,710 I was talking to him about this the other day. 649 00:41:19,150 --> 00:41:23,100 So. I wonder if it's, you know, just 650 00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:26,860 sort of like, oh, I don't really want to do that much, but, you 651 00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:31,020 know, it was, it was apparently quick money, easy money for him. 652 00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:35,180 That was according to, you know, Roger Lewis, that was one of the 653 00:41:35,180 --> 00:41:39,740 draws is that he would get a 5% royalty and you know, it was, it 654 00:41:39,740 --> 00:41:42,380 was half day's work, not even 1/2 day. 655 00:41:42,860 --> 00:41:46,880 Yeah. His love and worship of Alec 656 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,440 Guinness is fairly well known, so I think, you know, that might 657 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,840 have played into it too, like, oh, he gets to, he gets to sort 658 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,600 of step into Alec Guinness mode again. 659 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,280 If we accept your premise or your theory that George Martin 660 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,040 was, this was all George Martin's idea to to to do this 661 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,280 LP as opposed to say, as opposed to Spike saying to George 662 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,120 Martin, hey, why don't we record an LP like a goon show? 663 00:42:11,710 --> 00:42:14,270 It's assuming that it's George Martin's idea. 664 00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:17,390 I'd love to know how long it took for them to decide which 665 00:42:17,390 --> 00:42:20,710 Goon Show to do and why they chose this one. 666 00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:23,350 I mean, I guess this one is is obvious in many ways just 667 00:42:23,350 --> 00:42:26,150 because of it. It's cinematic, isn't it? 668 00:42:27,830 --> 00:42:31,590 And it's it's got a it's got a clear plot and the through line. 669 00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:35,790 One of the things that saddens me a little bit is that Larry 670 00:42:35,790 --> 00:42:38,430 Stevens just gets written out of these things, doesn't he? 671 00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:45,310 Because he cuz he cuz he's down as he gets a writing credit on 672 00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:48,910 African incident. But he's not mentioned at all on 673 00:42:48,910 --> 00:42:49,990 the bridge on the river. Why? 674 00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:53,070 No. And and I mean it is revised. 675 00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:55,510 It's not the exact script. Yeah. 676 00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:59,030 So I wonder if you know spikes thought, well, you know, I'm 677 00:42:59,030 --> 00:43:01,910 rewriting this. I'm going to take sole credit or 678 00:43:02,350 --> 00:43:04,310 you know, who knows? And I mean, I think you're 679 00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:06,990 right, there's a possibility that Spike said, hey, why don't 680 00:43:06,990 --> 00:43:10,910 we do this. I'm I've got this idea or I've 681 00:43:10,910 --> 00:43:14,430 written the script maybe he had you know in this burst of 682 00:43:14,430 --> 00:43:17,150 creativity he he decided to rewrite this and. 683 00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:18,750 Maybe. Who knows? 684 00:43:18,990 --> 00:43:21,950 I mean, I think, I think it's interesting that, you know, 685 00:43:21,950 --> 00:43:25,150 they're close enough that it could go either way. 686 00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:27,350 Or you know, maybe it's a two way thing where they're 687 00:43:27,350 --> 00:43:30,230 discussing this and they're pitching ideas back and forth 688 00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:32,150 and this sort of is the one that sticks. 689 00:43:33,630 --> 00:43:36,190 Well, there's a couple things that I've picked up on in recent 690 00:43:36,190 --> 00:43:38,270 months through doing this podcast. 691 00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:42,990 So there was the Spike Milligan documentary that aired on Sky 692 00:43:42,990 --> 00:43:48,230 Arts over here last year, which was all about Spike's archive 693 00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:52,830 personal archive. You saw a lot of real to real 694 00:43:52,830 --> 00:43:58,270 cassettes of Goon show recordings and presumably 695 00:43:58,270 --> 00:44:00,750 scripts and things like that as well in in his archive. 696 00:44:01,470 --> 00:44:06,070 And I wonder whether he during this period in the 60s he was 697 00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:09,910 listening. To them listening to the tapes, 698 00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:15,070 reading the scripts, even just to get ideas for new stuff, you 699 00:44:15,070 --> 00:44:22,470 know, and and also we, we know that the BBC was quite keen on 700 00:44:23,110 --> 00:44:26,630 the goons coming back together to record a new series of the 701 00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:33,550 Goon show right up, right up until sort of 61 into early 62 I 702 00:44:33,550 --> 00:44:36,990 think. And Spike was was resistant. 703 00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:41,100 And Sellers was sort of indifferent. 704 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:45,340 I think seeking was quite key. But so, so I wonder, you know, 705 00:44:45,340 --> 00:44:49,340 maybe Spike had, you know, maybe he had been rereading some of 706 00:44:49,340 --> 00:44:52,020 the old scripts and just or or listened to a recording of 707 00:44:52,020 --> 00:44:56,020 African incident and just thought, oh, that's quite a 708 00:44:56,020 --> 00:44:58,180 strong show, maybe we could. Yeah. 709 00:44:58,860 --> 00:45:01,300 Maybe we could do an LP or do something with it, you know, 710 00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:04,580 right? And you know, who knows, maybe 711 00:45:04,580 --> 00:45:07,100 there's a letter somewhere in his archive that. 712 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,760 That talks about this. You know what the motivation 713 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,480 was? Yeah, yeah. 714 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,600 So does it work with the absence of seeking? 715 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,920 There is a there's a definite difference in energy. 716 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,280 Yeah. And obviously Goon Show is live 717 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,080 and it's, you know, they could crack each other up and it would 718 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,240 be sometimes frenetic. And this was much more 719 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,440 controlled. It had sort of had to be more 720 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,690 controlled because of. What Martin was planning to do, 721 00:45:37,690 --> 00:45:42,730 I think my impression is that they probably recorded them each 722 00:45:42,730 --> 00:45:48,810 scene separately and then he stitched it together into the 723 00:45:48,810 --> 00:45:53,890 into the complete recording and added the sound effects in the 724 00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:58,050 orchestration behind that. So you know it would be a much 725 00:45:58,050 --> 00:46:00,410 more controlled and it sounds much more controlled. 726 00:46:01,180 --> 00:46:05,980 You know, it doesn't sound like the African incident, the sort 727 00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:10,420 of the the pace and the energy and the, you know, just what we 728 00:46:10,420 --> 00:46:13,620 all associate with the Goon Show is that kind of there is this 729 00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:17,420 kind of danger to us almost, you know, like anything could 730 00:46:17,420 --> 00:46:20,090 happen. It could derail at any moment, 731 00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:28,450 yeah. Don't press that plunger. 732 00:46:29,690 --> 00:46:33,450 You can't press that plunger. Yes, I can. 733 00:46:33,570 --> 00:46:35,730 No, you can't. Yes, I can. 734 00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:38,770 No, you can't. Yes, I can. 735 00:46:38,770 --> 00:46:41,810 No, you can't. No, you can't. 736 00:46:42,330 --> 00:46:59,020 No, you can't. In that opening you have all 737 00:46:59,020 --> 00:47:01,980 these sound effects. You have this cinematic picture 738 00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:07,100 made through sound, sound pictures, as George Martin like 739 00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:09,620 to call it. So, you know, maybe, maybe it's 740 00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:14,780 like I'm just going to show off my skill in, you know, conjuring 741 00:47:14,780 --> 00:47:17,700 this image in your mind. Right off. 742 00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:19,620 And then and then pull you into the rest of the story. 743 00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:24,980 And then you get Cook as the narrator saying, we present the 744 00:47:24,980 --> 00:47:26,340 bridge over the river. Why? 745 00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:29,060 Subsequently the lawsuit over the river? 746 00:47:29,060 --> 00:47:31,580 Why? Which is which is quite. 747 00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:33,860 Right. I really wonder if he had him 748 00:47:33,860 --> 00:47:36,460 come in and just rerecord that line or something. 749 00:47:36,460 --> 00:47:39,060 Yeah, in light of what had happened with Colombia. 750 00:47:39,860 --> 00:47:43,300 It's it's 1962 in England, but still 1943 in Japan, and the 751 00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:46,340 Japanese have just captured Singapore and. 752 00:47:46,820 --> 00:47:49,580 Major Barbara has been rallying the men around the white flag 753 00:47:51,100 --> 00:47:53,020 rather than surrender. We gave ourselves up and yet 754 00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:57,940 again it's it's Spike having a dig hit the British military. 755 00:47:57,940 --> 00:48:00,780 Right. Lots of digs throughout 756 00:48:00,980 --> 00:48:04,700 throughout. Could you envisaged an American 757 00:48:04,700 --> 00:48:07,700 version of this where Americans are the American military is 758 00:48:07,940 --> 00:48:12,060 sent up? Who? 759 00:48:13,780 --> 00:48:18,950 Not at that time, I don't think. I think the attitude was much, 760 00:48:18,990 --> 00:48:21,110 much different. I think after Vietnam, 761 00:48:21,110 --> 00:48:22,990 certainly. Oh, yeah, yeah. 762 00:48:23,310 --> 00:48:24,190 Yeah. No, I'm sorry. 763 00:48:24,350 --> 00:48:28,910 This is, this was like, this was obviously not recorded during 764 00:48:28,910 --> 00:48:33,590 the Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was released, what, a week after 765 00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:37,110 the Cuban Missile crisis and obviously so. 766 00:48:37,110 --> 00:48:41,950 So we've got this, this Japanese POW camp and General Ichi. 767 00:48:42,250 --> 00:48:45,450 Ichi Coochie is telling them that they need to build a bridge 768 00:48:45,450 --> 00:48:48,490 over the river. Major Barber objects. 769 00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:51,490 And then you've got 68,000 officers crammed into a small 770 00:48:51,490 --> 00:48:54,730 Hut 2 foot high by 6 and a quarter inches wide. 771 00:48:55,770 --> 00:48:57,090 And that's that's what you first hear. 772 00:48:57,090 --> 00:49:01,050 I think it's Dudley Moore playing the the character who 773 00:49:01,050 --> 00:49:03,410 sort of goes mad. I can't say it any longer. 774 00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:07,330 No food, no water, no melter. I can't stand it. 775 00:49:07,370 --> 00:49:09,730 I think that steady, Mr. English. 776 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,400 They've only been in here 14 seconds, I know, but there's a 777 00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:20,120 limit to what a man can stand. And then we have this telegram 778 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,680 from the Emperor ordering that the bridge is to be completed by 779 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,680 April the 1st, but unfortunately it's April the 14th. 780 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:29,880 So they, and this is the most goonish thing about this, I 781 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,160 think, is they decide let's work backwards. 782 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,680 And that way it's only a fortnight away, right? 783 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,400 And that's in the African incident, isn't? 784 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,450 It it is. Yes, yeah, there's a there's an 785 00:49:42,450 --> 00:49:47,050 escape committee formed and we get Field Marshall Echols. 786 00:49:48,050 --> 00:49:50,210 Field Marshall Echols. That was in another. 787 00:49:51,850 --> 00:49:53,290 Oh, it's one I listened to last night. 788 00:49:53,290 --> 00:49:58,890 It was either fear of wages or but it was it was it was sort of 789 00:49:58,890 --> 00:50:01,530 along the same lines of like I would How did you become Field 790 00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:03,730 Marshall Echols? I was born Field Marshall. 791 00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:07,690 Named at birth. And then you have. 792 00:50:08,330 --> 00:50:12,170 The American Lieutenant, although they they obviously 793 00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:15,730 they they refer to him in the British way, left tenant Cody. 794 00:50:17,170 --> 00:50:18,850 He's going to escape with Echols. 795 00:50:19,330 --> 00:50:23,050 They're given concentrated licorice for some reason. 796 00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:26,450 Gives a man something or does something good. 797 00:50:26,650 --> 00:50:27,050 Yeah. Yeah. 798 00:50:29,090 --> 00:50:31,610 And then we have Cook as the narrator saying both the 799 00:50:31,610 --> 00:50:34,490 American and the Field Marshall escaped, except the Field 800 00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:36,910 Marshall. He was recaptured, clubbed, 801 00:50:36,910 --> 00:50:39,110 thrown over a Cliff in a manner to which he was accustomed, 802 00:50:39,310 --> 00:50:42,430 strangled, struck on the knee and severely reprimanded with a 803 00:50:42,430 --> 00:50:45,950 mallet. The tradition of visiting 804 00:50:45,950 --> 00:50:51,590 violence upon echoes has carried on yes into the 60s, Yes, 805 00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:54,710 clearly. There's not so much, you know, 806 00:50:54,830 --> 00:50:56,670 he'll he'll say something and they'll smack him. 807 00:50:56,670 --> 00:50:59,990 It's more, you know, they're reporting what's going to happen 808 00:50:59,990 --> 00:51:02,270 to him or what has happened to him. 809 00:51:03,740 --> 00:51:06,340 I'm glad that it's funny as well because he's he he retains the 810 00:51:06,340 --> 00:51:14,580 name Eccles, whereas blood Knock is startling grope, but Eccles 811 00:51:14,580 --> 00:51:16,860 retains his name. I guess it's just because by 812 00:51:16,860 --> 00:51:20,540 this point Eccles is just everyone knows the the Spike 813 00:51:20,540 --> 00:51:23,580 Eccles character. Yeah, he's so iconic, I think. 814 00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:30,540 Yeah, Lieutenant or Leftenant. Cody turns up and sell on and 815 00:51:30,540 --> 00:51:33,380 then he's told to report to Colonel Hawkins. 816 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:40,120 Which I guess is named Hawkins because it was Jack Hawkins 817 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,840 played, played the character in the film. 818 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,760 And then we we we have introduced A Brigadier, 819 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,400 startling grope which is blood, not blood, not sounding slightly 820 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,320 more, slightly more elderly. Don't know. 821 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,600 There's something that doesn't sound quite as robust. 822 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,360 It's a very bad editing when he mentions the the word why? 823 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,080 Look according to British intelligence and the man called. 824 00:52:03,590 --> 00:52:07,990 Tom, The Jets are forcing allied troops to build a bridge over 825 00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:10,990 the pie. We intend to destroy it. 826 00:52:11,390 --> 00:52:17,590 The boom hung black couple that are perhaps, maybe a big boom 827 00:52:17,710 --> 00:52:20,190 hub crash. One of those two combinations 828 00:52:20,190 --> 00:52:23,710 should prove faithful. I guess George Martin did the 829 00:52:23,710 --> 00:52:26,710 best he could, obviously. Yeah, I mean, it was probably 830 00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:29,270 him working with Stuart Altham, who was actually probably 831 00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:31,350 wielding the scissors. Oh yeah. 832 00:52:31,730 --> 00:52:34,330 Right. But yeah, no doubt directing 833 00:52:34,330 --> 00:52:38,370 him. So, so, so basically, Starling 834 00:52:38,370 --> 00:52:41,730 Grape tells Cody that according to British intelligence, there's 835 00:52:41,730 --> 00:52:43,970 a bridge being built and they want it blown up. 836 00:52:44,570 --> 00:52:50,890 So Cody is obliged to return and assist with this operation. 837 00:52:52,690 --> 00:52:56,330 He's parachuted into the jungle and. 838 00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,360 I love the fact that they're hacking their way through a wall 839 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,480 of impenetrable jungle which runs along each side of an 840 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:08,040 arterial Rd. Military. 841 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:13,360 Yeah, there's these Burmese women. 842 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,400 I'm not quite sure what the Burme, I can't even remember 843 00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,760 from the film. There were some Burmese women in 844 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,960 the film that that that was sort of attached to the raiding 845 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:26,000 party, and I can't remember the reason why, but the same happens 846 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,390 here. And of course you've got you've 847 00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:29,910 got blood knock or startling grope. 848 00:53:31,790 --> 00:53:34,550 While the Burmese women are bathing, he's minding their 849 00:53:34,550 --> 00:53:44,030 clothes and my favorite line in the whole story is they follow a 850 00:53:44,030 --> 00:53:48,110 six man Japanese patrol and start shooting at them. 851 00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:55,270 Give them a burst. Mod you far, they've gone 852 00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:56,950 quieter. They'll hear us killing them. 853 00:53:57,790 --> 00:54:03,230 Yeah, it's it's just, you know, it's it's this sort of absurdity 854 00:54:03,230 --> 00:54:08,870 upon absurdity with this, which is to me, that's the, you know, 855 00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:12,270 the great charm of this is, is that it is so ridiculous and 856 00:54:12,270 --> 00:54:19,510 it's so, so droll. Yeah, so the the bridge is 857 00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:22,790 finally completed and the man organize a concert to celebrate. 858 00:54:23,540 --> 00:54:26,420 And they sing the German national anthem, but it's the 859 00:54:26,420 --> 00:54:28,100 English national anthem disguised. 860 00:54:28,260 --> 00:54:29,460 That's the German national anthem. 861 00:54:32,540 --> 00:54:37,220 Lieutenant Cody is it Lieutenant Burke Pounding, which is Dudley 862 00:54:37,220 --> 00:54:41,660 Moore. And and you buy Dung, which is 863 00:54:41,660 --> 00:54:46,180 the seller's character. Such a terrible, terrible in it. 864 00:54:47,260 --> 00:54:49,500 That exists strictly for that one joke. 865 00:54:49,900 --> 00:54:51,740 Of course it is. Of course it is. 866 00:54:51,860 --> 00:54:53,550 Yeah. They're they're ordered by 867 00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:56,550 Hawkins to place the explosives and then you get the scene with 868 00:54:56,550 --> 00:55:00,870 the very short scene which is the the equivalent it's it's 869 00:55:01,030 --> 00:55:05,830 it's almost identical. I think the scene with the goon 870 00:55:05,830 --> 00:55:09,110 show an African incident is blood knock with Cecile Chevreau 871 00:55:09,150 --> 00:55:14,390 and in bridge on the river why it's Peter Cook as Colonel 872 00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:19,470 Hawkins with Spike's wife Patty as the native girl. 873 00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,640 Is this what English called? Uncompromising position? 874 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,560 Uncomfortable, I would say. After all, if you were caught, 875 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,920 now what should people say? Me halfway up a mango tree 876 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,680 dressed as methistopheles and you down there bottling fruit 877 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,800 and a plastic kilt? It would never do. 878 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:51,810 Twan, let us plan. What a strange sight we made, me 879 00:55:51,810 --> 00:55:55,610 and her tangoing through the steaming jungle, the silence 880 00:55:55,650 --> 00:55:57,770 only broken by the crackling of knees. 881 00:55:58,210 --> 00:56:03,410 I only had eyes for him, and he only had eyes for me. 882 00:56:03,810 --> 00:56:06,570 We fell over a Cliff. I was actually surprised on 883 00:56:06,570 --> 00:56:12,890 relisten how much of African incident ends up in this with 884 00:56:12,890 --> 00:56:17,460 very few changes if any at all. Yeah, there's obviously more, 885 00:56:17,460 --> 00:56:19,180 there's additional dialogue in this. 886 00:56:19,180 --> 00:56:22,740 But I mean, for example, I think, I don't think in African 887 00:56:22,740 --> 00:56:26,980 Incident you get a character coming in and interrupting this 888 00:56:27,140 --> 00:56:29,540 sort of romantic scene saying, hey major, we've done it and so 889 00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:36,340 have you by the. Yeah, spiced ups like that, 890 00:56:36,340 --> 00:56:38,620 that's, I suppose they had more license to be of its source 891 00:56:38,620 --> 00:56:42,540 here. I mean, while Echoes is waiting 892 00:56:42,540 --> 00:56:45,320 to press the plunger. And Major Barbara and his 893 00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,360 adjutant of walking on the bridge. 894 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,360 And they notice, yeah, the in 10 minutes the first train will 895 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,120 pass over. Major Barber spots a cable down 896 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,840 below. Eyes like a hawk and legs like a 897 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,880 kangaroo. I wonder what he's going to do. 898 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:02,960 Join a freak show. Yeah. 899 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:06,600 Just as in the film there's there's concern that the major 900 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:11,720 will stymie the whole operation because he he's in in the film. 901 00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,680 My memory is that. The Guinness character is so 902 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:19,680 proud of the bridge right, that the idea of blowing it up is 903 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,160 complete anathema to him and he does everything he can to stop 904 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:24,560 it. And that's pretty much what 905 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,880 happens here. Yeah, I think, he says in The 906 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,480 African Incident. I've been in the army however 907 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,040 many years, and this is, this is the first thing I'm really proud 908 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,960 of. I don't know if that's from the 909 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,440 film or if that's just, you know, sort of sort of putting a 910 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:40,940 fine point. On it. 911 00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:43,180 I think it's more, more or less that sort of sentiment. 912 00:57:43,180 --> 00:57:45,020 Yeah, that's certainly the gist of it. 913 00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:47,260 Yeah. Because obviously right at the 914 00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:49,820 the first hour of the film, you've got the Guinness 915 00:57:49,820 --> 00:57:52,620 character absolutely, vehemently against the whole idea. 916 00:57:53,580 --> 00:57:56,540 Well, certainly of himself in the offices being involved with 917 00:57:56,540 --> 00:58:00,380 building the bridge. Once the bridge is built, he 918 00:58:00,380 --> 00:58:03,180 looks upon it with a degree of pride. 919 00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:09,220 And yeah, and then the major Barbara confronts Echols and we 920 00:58:09,220 --> 00:58:13,680 have this sort of standoff. With the plunger, but yeah, 921 00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:18,680 Echoes manages to detonate the explosive and the bridge is 922 00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:44,160 destroyed. And that's how it all ended. 923 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:46,760 Major Barbara shot by Lieutenant Cody. 924 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,120 Lieutenant Cody shot by the Japs. 925 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:54,040 The Japs shot by Major Hawkins and Major Hawkins killed by a 926 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,520 falling train. The falling train, shot by Major 927 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,360 Barbara. Major Barbara shot by Lieutenant 928 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:02,960 Cody. And to make matters worse. 929 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:10,120 It was half day early closing. Do you know what that means? 930 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:15,000 No, no, no. I know that that there was half 931 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,280 day early closing on Wednesdays back then, I think for some 932 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,800 reason, And you have this corny sort of vaudevillian outro music 933 00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,400 with it with a delayed symbol crash. 934 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,600 And the backup just a just a little bit before that though is 935 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,600 is another one of my favorite lines I I think it's Hawkins 936 00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,200 maybe or they're they're discussing everything set up 937 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,380 and. He says, you know, stand by with 938 00:59:35,380 --> 00:59:40,300 a sack of Purple Hearts and it's just it's the delivery and also 939 00:59:40,300 --> 00:59:44,020 the sentiment behind it of of you know exactly what's going to 940 00:59:44,020 --> 00:59:46,980 happen. Yeah, so it's it's, it's look, 941 00:59:46,980 --> 00:59:52,340 it's a enjoyable little curious. It's still, you know, people 942 00:59:52,340 --> 00:59:54,740 still talk about it today. So it's it's very fondly 943 00:59:54,740 --> 00:59:59,980 remembered and it was just on the cusp, on the absolute cusp 944 01:00:00,020 --> 01:00:02,580 of George Martin's life changing. 945 01:00:03,690 --> 01:00:04,930 Irrevocably. Right. 946 01:00:05,570 --> 01:00:09,850 And and he had just renewed his contract to the EMI around this 947 01:00:09,850 --> 01:00:12,690 time. So I I, you know, just sort of 948 01:00:12,690 --> 01:00:18,010 digging into the the comedy aspect and you know, maybe 949 01:00:18,010 --> 01:00:20,370 thinking this is this is where I'm going to take the rest of my 950 01:00:20,370 --> 01:00:22,810 career. I'm going to you know at least 951 01:00:22,810 --> 01:00:26,970 the next the next you know, term of my contract. 952 01:00:29,130 --> 01:00:31,890 And if. If he, and you'll know much more 953 01:00:31,890 --> 01:00:38,130 about this than I do, But if you'd not had that affair, is it 954 01:00:38,370 --> 01:00:42,770 possible that he would not have been told that he has to record 955 01:00:42,770 --> 01:00:45,690 The Beatles? Isn't that sort of punishment? 956 01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:52,170 Yeah it's that's the that's the idea you know about sort of what 957 01:00:52,250 --> 01:00:56,530 the story that Mark Lewis and put together all out of all 958 01:00:56,530 --> 01:00:59,110 that. And also that, you know he 959 01:00:59,390 --> 01:01:03,590 around that time he was about to resign from EMI and you know he 960 01:01:03,590 --> 01:01:07,950 doesn't talk about this, but maybe all this is transpiring at 961 01:01:07,950 --> 01:01:11,750 around the same time he's thinking of leaving and going 962 01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:15,430 out on his own because he's getting this pressure because of 963 01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:18,070 this affair and he's feeling I need to get out of here. 964 01:01:19,310 --> 01:01:23,230 You know I'm, I don't know obviously if that's the case, 965 01:01:23,230 --> 01:01:26,540 but I think it's. It's plausible that it's, you 966 01:01:26,540 --> 01:01:31,740 know, all of this is happening in the spring of 62 and you know 967 01:01:31,740 --> 01:01:34,500 it's Mark Lewis And and I were discussing years ago he said, 968 01:01:34,500 --> 01:01:37,820 you know he almost missed them because if he'd resigned, he 969 01:01:37,820 --> 01:01:40,420 wouldn't have been assigned to them. 970 01:01:40,420 --> 01:01:43,900 He wouldn't have, you know been made to sign them and and you 971 01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:45,580 know everything that else that happened after that. 972 01:01:47,060 --> 01:01:49,980 So it, you know, it's a lot of things in motion here that just 973 01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:54,020 sort of work out perfectly. Absolutely. 974 01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:58,070 Absolutely. I I mean I really think you know 975 01:01:58,070 --> 01:02:01,390 just just beyond it being a a Curia related to the Goon show 976 01:02:01,390 --> 01:02:05,910 that it it's you know it's the amount of production that George 977 01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:09,630 Martin put into this that that I also want to call attention to 978 01:02:10,070 --> 01:02:13,630 just because you know this period prior to The Beatles is 979 01:02:13,630 --> 01:02:19,110 where he's he's sort of you know working out his his approach to 980 01:02:19,110 --> 01:02:22,230 the studio and this is I think the peak of that. 981 01:02:24,970 --> 01:02:27,290 And you know working with these, you know, these people that he's 982 01:02:27,290 --> 01:02:33,450 had a long history with and and I mean I think a lot of it's 983 01:02:33,450 --> 01:02:35,570 still very funny. Obviously some of the humor is 984 01:02:35,570 --> 01:02:38,770 dated and and not funny anymore and kind of cringeworthy. 985 01:02:39,290 --> 01:02:44,130 But I, you know, I do think if you can, if you can look past 986 01:02:44,130 --> 01:02:47,770 that and sort of look at it in 19 with 1962 eyes and ears. 987 01:02:51,870 --> 01:02:54,510 It is very amusing and it gives you a window into sort of who 988 01:02:54,510 --> 01:02:58,550 George Martin was at this very particular critical moment of 989 01:02:58,550 --> 01:03:02,550 his career. Absolutely Okay. 990 01:03:02,550 --> 01:03:07,070 So tell us a little bit more about producing The Beatles in 991 01:03:07,070 --> 01:03:11,910 terms of what you Cuz it's not it's it's an irregular podcast 992 01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:14,630 that seems to come out. It's very erratical, yes. 993 01:03:15,230 --> 01:03:18,070 Yeah. I've been reminded of that many 994 01:03:18,070 --> 01:03:22,240 times by many people. It's it's a lot of work. 995 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,880 I'm a, you know, one man show, so I'm producing what should 996 01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,200 reasonably take about 10 people. But it's you know, it's going in 997 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:34,560 the studio figuring out how The Beatles did what they did, how 998 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:39,880 George Martin did what he did and how that energy worked 999 01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:44,080 between them in in a different period of their of their career 1000 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,560 from early on to. You know, the the middle period 1001 01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,920 recordings to the, you know, the later recordings, how all of 1002 01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:56,600 this sort of plays out. And also in many cases looking 1003 01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:58,800 at George Martin's history before The Beatles and saying, 1004 01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,520 well, he's already encountered this idea. 1005 01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,560 How did he deal with it then? And then how is he applying that 1006 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,200 knowledge to this Beatles session? 1007 01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:12,600 So and you know and part of that is also just breaking down 1008 01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,800 tracks and and seeing how they began and then how they built up 1009 01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:21,360 those tracks overdub by overdub. So you know like I said earlier 1010 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:26,200 it's it's using The Beatles to teach music teach concepts about 1011 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:34,560 recording teach or or explore ideas about about collaboration 1012 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:40,560 and you know sort of what this. What this unique chemistry 1013 01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,440 between these five people was. Would you say that the 1014 01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:48,160 apotheosis of all this is tomorrow never knows. 1015 01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:56,960 Yes, yes that's and and yellow Submarine, strangely enough 1016 01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:01,360 because yeah, yeah, you know it's it's they are two sides of 1017 01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,800 the same coin. And and there's some very direct 1018 01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,760 lines you can draw from Yellow Submarine to his comedy 1019 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:11,320 recordings, including this. Absolutely excellent. 1020 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:13,480 So yeah. So anyone with an interest in 1021 01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,040 The Beatles, of course, George Martin music in general and and 1022 01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,760 music production you recommended to seek out producing The 1023 01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,920 Beatles, available in all the usual places and what have you 1024 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:27,160 got coming? Up I will be. 1025 01:05:28,140 --> 01:05:32,300 Doing an episode on Smart Never Knows Soon and Yelsa Marine and 1026 01:05:32,300 --> 01:05:36,660 these comedy recordings, which may end up being two episodes, 1027 01:05:36,660 --> 01:05:39,460 but as you know, we sort of touched on today, it's a very 1028 01:05:39,460 --> 01:05:42,660 large subject. I was thinking the other day 1029 01:05:43,180 --> 01:05:46,220 preparing for this. I'd love to do an episode at 1030 01:05:46,220 --> 01:05:47,740 some point on Milligan Preserved. 1031 01:05:47,980 --> 01:05:50,620 Oh yeah. So maybe you could come back 1032 01:05:50,900 --> 01:05:52,580 sometime in the future, talk about that. 1033 01:05:52,860 --> 01:05:55,500 I would love to and have a good bit of material on that too. 1034 01:05:56,260 --> 01:05:58,010 Excellent. All right. 1035 01:05:58,010 --> 01:05:59,570 Well, Jason, listen, it's been brilliant having you on. 1036 01:05:59,570 --> 01:06:03,210 Thank you so much. And we will, yeah, we'll get you 1037 01:06:03,210 --> 01:06:05,170 back from Milligan preserved maybe next year. 1038 01:06:05,210 --> 01:06:05,810 Great. Yeah. 1039 01:06:05,810 --> 01:06:06,650 Thank you for having me.