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Billy Fisher, the man himself. 
Congratulations, Billy. 

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We've just heard of your 
wonderful job in London writing 

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scripts. 
The comedian Danny Boo. 

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Congratulations and best of 
luck. 

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Hello and welcome to Goon Pod 
Film Club. 

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This week I'm welcoming Tim 
Worthington, writer, podcaster 

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and occasional broadcaster to 
talk about a proper British 

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classic, the 1963 John 
Schlesinger directed Billy Lier,

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starring Tom Courtney, Julie 
Christie, Rodney Bewes, Leonard 

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Rossiter and others. 
Based on the best selling 1959 

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novel by Keith Waterhouse, Billy
Lyer is an example of the 

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British New Wave, incorporating 
elements of the French New Wave 

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and British kitchen sink drama, 
but with a distinctive comic 

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heart. 
Anyway, have a listen to me and 

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Tim Thrape on about it and I 
hope you enjoy the show. 

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OK. 
So Tim, first thing I want to 

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say is thank you very much. 
Well, thank you for letting me 

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talk about one of my favorite 
films that I mean, I can't say 

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nobody ever lets me talk about 
it because I don't shut up about

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it in real life. 
But there's very little 

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opportunity for talking anywhere
in any sort of constructible, 

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meaningful sense about 
particularly comedy films in 

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this era. 
I don't know why that is, but it

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just, it's not even that they're
not taken seriously, they're 

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just not giving any regard at 
all. 

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This is a confession. 
This is the first time I've seen

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Billy Lier. 
Really. 

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Off the back of you saying you'd
like to come in and talk about 

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it. 
I, I was certainly aware of it, 

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obviously, but I think I, I had 
it in my head that it was going 

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to be much more maybe half 
fantasy sequences and half real 

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life if you like. 
We we do get sequences, which 

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are fantasy sequences, but 
there's only a handful of them 

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really, isn't there? 
Yes. 

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And as I will come back to, I 
think they might be the bit that

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works the least well these days 
in it. 

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But you are right, it is in that
it's very rooted in the real 

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world, but also it blurs the 
line between and I think people 

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really must understand it these 
days between what is reality and

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what isn't, what is imagination,
what is ambition, what is 

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reality? 
And what's other people telling 

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him, no, this is your reality. 
And I think that's why so many, 

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I'm going to be honest, it's 
mainly man who seems to identify

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with this film, but so many do. 
It's such a totem. 

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It's like the way does that film
about the sort of that sort of 

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high school heartbreak film in 
the 70s. 

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Jeremy, the Mark Kermo always 
talks about that seems to be, 

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you know, for Lovelone dreamers.
And this is maybe more adored by

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creatives, really, because from 
various angles they can see a 

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lot of themselves in Billy. 
Yeah, and it's kitchen sink 

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comedy Drama. 
Would you describe it as that? 

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I absolutely would, because I 
think that's a really important 

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thing about you would think it 
would be redolent to the way, 

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you know, people pine for the 
old days when you knew all your 

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neighbours and you could leave 
your grandmother unlocked and 

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the weak meal man came round 
every Thursday week. 

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But Strathalton, or is it 
Strathalton? 

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I don't know, because you see, 
they don't call it that in the 

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film. 
That's just the name for the 

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novel. 
And I like the fact that I've 

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never known what it is, but it's
a horrible place full of 

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horrible people. 
They're bullies, they're told 

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people, they hold everyone else 
to their own standards. 

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There's no aspiration. 
There's hardly any likable 

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characters. 
And it opens with basically a 

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shot of slop clearance waiting 
to happen. 

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And post war ruble. 
You know, there's that 

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incredible tracking shot at the 
beginning when you've got that 

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Godfrey winners, the radio 
announcer. 

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And it is a just repellent 
place. 

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You don't even need to be told 
if you can see it, if you can 

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see what awfulness there is 
around. 

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And I'm not saying Billy isn't 
awful either, but you can just 

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see it. 
There's nothing you can't look 

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at. 
It rose into glasses now, and it

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wasn't looking with rose into 
glasses then. 

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And I think that's really 
important. 

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I couldn't get over the right 
from the outset, the unrelenting

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negativity of Billy's father, 
the actor Wilfred. 

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Was he an actor or comedian? 
Or would you call them both 

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Wilfred Pickles? 
He was sort of both. 

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I mean most people mainly known 
as Was he the host of a game 

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show? 
I think they're all caught the 

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same thing or like the post war 
game shows. 

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I can't say for 100% certain 
which one it was. 

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I'm sure I've got him a note 
somewhere, but. 

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Was that have a go? 
I think it's have a go I. 

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Think it's have a go, Yes, yeah.
I mean, it could be take your 

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pick, but I don't think it is. 
But they were all three word 

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things that, you know, the the 
onus was on the contestant to do

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everything. 
But but he in this I was I don't

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know. 
It's there's this this coldness 

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between Billy's parents, 
particularly his father and 

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Billy. 
And, and I wrote on my notes 

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here because this word is used 
frequently, particularly when 

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Billy's father's talking to 
Billy or shouting at Billy. 

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The word grateful, right? 
Is that is, would you say that 

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the word grateful is one of the 
most patronizing words to apply 

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to the working classes? 
Because it's like Billy's dad 

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doesn't want him to get on. 
He wants them to hold down a 

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job, get married and not get any
ideas above the station. 

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That's absolutely it. 
There's just the suspicion of 

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aspiration, ambition and people 
doing well. 

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Yeah, like a. 
Bloody Mary Anne, you want to be

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grateful you've got a job in an 
office. 

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Grateful, grateful. 
Grateful for this. 

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Grateful for that. 
That's all I've ever heard. 

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Grateful you let me go to the 
grammar school, beginning that 

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once in the first day I went 
there. 

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Well, it's a chance where you 
know that, and don't we bloody 

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well know it. 
I've got to be grateful for me 

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on scholarship. 
Well, what do you say? 

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When I came running on to tell 
you I'd won it, then you'd have 

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to pay for the uniform and I 
have to be grateful. 

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And I'm supposed to be grateful 
to Sharak and stinking Duxbury 

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for the limits of one of the 
wrong stinking desks all day. 

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Well, you took the bloody job 
on. 

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So many people I know have got 
that in their background 

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somewhere that they were the one
who didn't do what was sort of 

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expected, not necessarily by 
their parents of them, but you 

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know, by the why they're sort of
environment they grew up in. 

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And Billy very much, you know, 
there's so much negativity 

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directed towards him from his 
parents, from his grandmother, 

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who I think it genuinely. 
And you get more of a sense of 

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this in the novel because the 
although the book mostly follows

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the plot of the novel, it's not 
as in depth on the 

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characterisation, which is 
interesting because I think it's

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because there is so much of that
in the novel. 

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There just isn't room to do that
on screen. 

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But she's a horrible woman, is 
vindictive, just messing with 

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people for no reason. 
I do think when she has her 

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seizure, it starts as a faking 
thing to interfere with things 

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and then it again, that's kind 
of ambiguous in the book, but I 

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do think it's. 
And then it says it's a real 1. 

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And you cannot blame Billy for 
considering all a bit 

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grandmother who cried wolf. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. 

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We, I'll just give a quick 
summary of the film because 

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there may be people listen to 
this that haven't, like me until

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yesterday, hadn't haven't seen 
this film. 

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So you have Tom Courtney as 
Billy Fisher or William Fisher. 

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He was a grammar school boy, or 
had been a grammar school boy on

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a scholarship, brought up in a 
working class household with, as

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I said, quite cold parents and a
kind of grandmother who's going 

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on about darkies. 
Should I say that or should I 

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bleep that out? 
I don't know. 

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I think it gives a sense of, you
know, what her character is and 

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also the fact that Billy does 
not necessarily, well, he 

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doesn't call it out in the way, 
you know, somebody would have 

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done in the film 10 years later.
It is quite obvious that he does

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not like that kind of attitude. 
So, you know, I think quoting is

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OK there because you are showing
sort of the fact that he is 

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presented as unacceptable, a 
rotten things up by a rotten 

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character. 
Yeah, there's a clear sense of 

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detachment between him and the 
others in the household, 

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certainly at the beginning of 
the film. 

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So he's like, he's a, he's a 
dreamer, isn't he's got 

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aspirations to better himself. 
And but we found out later that 

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he, I guess he lacks the drive. 
He's doing a job as a, as a, 

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what is he? 
He's a clerk in a in a funeral. 

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Direction. 
Yeah, some kind of some kind of 

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records keeper slash General 
factotum, and one of his duties 

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to pay a speed delivering 
calendars is never quite clear 

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why. 
I'm not delivering it. 

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He's meant to post these 
calendars. 

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Yes, he doesn't deliver them. 
And he trials at the postage 

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money and, and then this 
opportunity arises for him to 

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start a new life away from his 
family, away from this horrible 

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environment that like you say, 
and, and, and escape from the 

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inevitable slide into a rut. 
And you said there's very few 

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likable characters in this. 
There's a small handful, but 

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there's one character that it's 
like she's, she's walked in from

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a, it's almost like an alien in 
this environment. 

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And it's Liz, the character 
played by Julie Christie. 

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It's it's like she's, how would 
you describe her? 

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She's like a modern British 
woman of the 60s. 

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You'd almost imagine the the, 
the sort of woman you'd see 

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hanging around Carnaby St. 
Confident. 

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She's ambitious, she's 
independently minded and she 

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doesn't belong in this northern 
town. 

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Absolutely. 
And it's important to say Liz 

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was actually substantially 
changed between the novel, which

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is 1959, and the film. 
And the reason for that is in 

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the novel she's a bit more like 
she's described as a scruffy 

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girl in need of a new dress. 
I think the idea is that, you 

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know, she's slightly lower 
social status to the rest of 

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them, but she's sort of implied 
to be a bit of a beatnik. 

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You know, she's falling that 
because that is what she can 

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afford to be. 
But through that, she's found 

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sort of, you know, liberation 
and got ideas, as they'd say. 

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She's fundamentally the same 
free spirit but from a different

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angle. 
But apparently the reason why 

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she's so different in the film 
is that it's to do with 

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something I am very, very fond 
of, which is the BBC Art show 

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Monitor Ken Russell. 
One of the very earliest things 

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he did was a film for them 
called Pop Goes the Easel, which

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00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,960
is a profile of the pop artists 
with I think possibly the only 

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reals for central documentary 
footage of Pauline Boaty that 

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00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,240
still exists. 
And it was after seeing that 

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basically, you know, we decided 
that's who Liz is and Pauline 

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actually did screen test for 
Billy Lyer, but didn't get the 

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role eventually. 
Topsy Jane was originally cast 

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as list and did actually do some
filming who had a very brief 

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career. 
She was in things like she's in 

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the loneliest long distance 
runner, I think was her most 

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00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,560
prominent thing She was in, I 
suppose. 

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00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:56,000
But she had basically what I can
only describe as a Sid Barrett 

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00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,040
style breakdown. 
There's a, you know, complete 

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withdrawal from the world and 
her career never really 

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00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,080
recovered. 
I believe she eventually just 

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retired from acting and you 
know, just did sort of I believe

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she ended up working in a cafe 
as far as now, which is one of 

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00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,040
those very mysterious sort of 
what if figures that you don't 

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00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,320
seem to get in the 60s, but 
Julie Christie, basically, I've 

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00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,400
been trying to work out the 
chronology of this and I can't 

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00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,760
quite. 
But she was very much open like 

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00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,680
Tom Courtney himself up and 
coming, but not there yet at 

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00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:31,080
that point. 
And she'd been in ABBC sci-fi 

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00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,120
show that I really love, even 
though very little exists of it 

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00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:39,960
now, called A for Andromeda, 
where she basically played an AI

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sort of human that was 
transmitted from the Andromeda 

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00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,680
Galaxy. 
You know, they sort of run this 

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00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:47,640
program and ended up with her. 
And the sort of, you know, the 

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00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,200
World Cup was like, well, what 
is she? 

224
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,200
What does she want? 
You know, it's very sort of Cold

225
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,800
War allegory sort of thing. 
You want to make something of 

226
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:56,800
yourself. 
You know, if you want to 

227
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,080
influence men. 
I do what I have to. 

228
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,280
You can start by pushing your 
hair back. 

229
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,080
Then we can see your face. 
It's a pretty face. 

230
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:09,200
Oh, you could wear scent scent 
like she does. 

231
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,360
Well, it's not very exotic 
lavender. 

232
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,160
Water or something? 
But nice, I do not understand 

233
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,080
you. 
Nice, nasty, good, bad. 

234
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,680
There is no logical distinction.
I do think because there was a 

235
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:27,680
sequel called The Untrum of the 
Breakthrough, she was replaced 

236
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:29,960
by Susan Hampshire in the 
Andromeda Breakthrough. 

237
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,280
And I have wondered if, because 
it all seems to be very last 

238
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,400
minute, because there are some 
shots where it appears to be 

239
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,080
Julie Christie in some of the 
film sequences, if she was sort 

240
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,280
of suddenly unable to do the 
Andromeda breakthrough because 

241
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,920
of being off a Billy liar. 
I can't quite get enough detail 

242
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,040
together to add that all up. 
But that in a broader sense I 

243
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,240
have known been known to be 
wrong about these things. 

244
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,520
But that does make sense to me. 
As I said about her being almost

245
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,880
like this alien in this 
environment, you see her 

246
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,400
skipping down the street, like 
you say, there's all these 

247
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,120
tenements being knocked down and
you see all these sort of, I 

248
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,240
mean, it's a black and white 
film, but you see these what I 

249
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,680
would describe as rather grey 
people walking, you know, 

250
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,000
walking down this High Street 
and you've got Julie Christie 

251
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,280
there very carefree and turning 
heads. 

252
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,320
And it's, you know, she's a very
beautiful woman, but it's also 

253
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,600
just her energy that's 
completely at odds in this 

254
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,760
environment. 
One, one thing that jumped out 

255
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,800
at me, I don't know why you see 
her briefly, I don't know, 2025 

256
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,200
minutes in. 
And then she, she has a little 

257
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,680
sequence where she's, she's 
being photographed with the 

258
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,240
comedian. 
Is it Danny Boone? 

259
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,440
Danny Boone, Yes. 
And that, that's precisely at 

260
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,640
the 30 minute mark. 
OK, then you've got exactly 

261
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,680
another 30 minutes. 
So the second act, if you like, 

262
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,440
and then at the at the hour 
mark, she reappears, but she's 

263
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,840
only in the film probably. 
She's only probably got about 

264
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,520
10-12 minutes of screen time. 
But she's pivotal to the film. 

265
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,520
I mean, she's the most second 
most important character after 

266
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,280
Billy, isn't she? 
She is and she's one of only 

267
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,200
three characters that I think 
are truly happy in Billy Ly. 

268
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,480
But even then they are not happy
because they are happy because 

269
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,880
of something there is either 
lacking in their lives that 

270
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,280
they've chosen to ignore because
Liz wants escape but she doesn't

271
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,720
know what to. 
I think that's really because 

272
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,440
she doesn't have a game plan. 
She just wants something 

273
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,760
different. 
And also Mr. Chabrac Clayburn, 

274
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,120
Leonard Brosseter, who we have 
got to come back to, is happy 

275
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,000
but because he he is married to 
his job and it's the most 

276
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,360
depressing, grim job we can 
imagine. 

277
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,280
But the other one, who I have a 
weird sort of admiration for is 

278
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,720
Stamp. 
Who's the? 

279
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,360
Oh yeah. 
After Billy and Arthur, he's the

280
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:59,800
third Clark at Shadrack and 
Duxbury, and he is one of those 

281
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,120
great charismatic office ball 
characters like Rex time in an 

282
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,880
avid decreasing circles or 
Finchy in the office actually, 

283
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,360
where they they're an emperor in
their own little world, but they

284
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,680
don't have anything outside of 
that. 

285
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,040
Not the tragical sad way. 
Literally that is, you know, 

286
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,120
their entire life is being a 
character in work. 

287
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,280
And in the book, Stamp even 
talks about stuff that happened 

288
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,480
at work on nights out with 
women. 

289
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,720
Well, he's, he's kind of an 
antagonist, doesn't he, As far 

290
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,960
as Billy's concerned, because 
Billy's got this friendship with

291
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,280
Rodney Bewes, with Arthur 
Crabtree. 

292
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,440
Is that the character? 
Yeah. 

293
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,520
They've, they've kind of got a 
double act. 

294
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,480
They go get, they go getting 
about, don't they? 

295
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,360
But I think that's the 
fundamental sort of fulcrum of 

296
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:58,640
why they don't quite work, 
because Billy is the one with 

297
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,320
the sort of the imagination in a
good sense. 

298
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,200
And Arthur's much more grounded.
He sees the things they do as 

299
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,240
just, you know, that is their 
friendship. 

300
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,200
Why would they be trying to 
write for a comedian? 

301
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,359
Yeah, he's not the first that 
during his lot him, but he 

302
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,760
doesn't have the aspiration with
him. 

303
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,680
Anyway, I've got something 
unpleasant to say. 

304
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,000
It's why I'm Mr. Shadrach today.
You've got something unpleasant 

305
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,119
to say to. 
I'm Mr. Shadrach today. 

306
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,319
Anything I say to Mr. Shadrach 
would be unpleasant. 

307
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,440
Can you leave the undertakers? 
No, honestly, I'm giving him a 

308
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,280
notice today. 
You are now. 

309
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,640
I think it's indicative of the 
polarized times we live in, 

310
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,080
where everything has to be one 
thing or the other. 

311
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,440
But there's this idea that it's 
just about, it's a film about a 

312
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,200
man who tells lies and that's 
that. 

313
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,040
And it's so much more ambiguous 
and grey. 

314
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,960
And to the extent that when I 
was checking up on things, I was

315
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,000
doing notes for this. 
I found a clip online of when in

316
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,360
the nightclub scene when the 
bands start playing the song 

317
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:56,800
that Arthur and Billy had 
written. 

318
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,560
And it was Twisterella. 
Twisterella Yeah, plenty more to

319
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,800
say about that in a minute. 
But it had the description on 

320
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,000
YouTube basically saying Billy's
lies about writing the song 

321
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,960
catch up to him. 
Now, unless Arthur and the band 

322
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,200
were in on the lie and unless 
Billy somehow knew what the 

323
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,680
lyrics were going to be in time 
with the singer. 

324
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,240
And you know that the MC that 
asks him to come up on stage 

325
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,160
with the local lad who's written
it, unless they're all in on 

326
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,120
this lie being perpetuated, 
nobody in particular, somebody 

327
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:32,680
has not understood this film, 
something that Billy has done in

328
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,120
conjunction with Arthur and it 
has worked. 

329
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,000
It's not what his parents want 
him to do. 

330
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:45,480
But that is, to me, that is 
proof that he is somebody who he

331
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:54,040
is confused ambition, aspiration
and imagination and sort of his 

332
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:59,600
trying to do a very upsetting 
twisted version of what do they 

333
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,200
call it? 
You know, visualisation, you 

334
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,720
know, like the Noel Evans cosmic
ordering thing where if you 

335
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,480
believe in something that aspire
to it, you can make it happen. 

336
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,080
And he thinks if he just thinks 
something, it'll happen. 

337
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,520
I'll tell you what the one of 
the things that really jumped 

338
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,360
out at me. 
So we've got Billy that lapses 

339
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:22,520
into these fantasy daydreams 
where there's this fictional 

340
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,880
what state country called 
ambrosia, of which he is 

341
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,680
variously what the the leader 
of, you know, the the the the 

342
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,840
greatest war hero of etcetera, 
etcetera. 

343
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,560
But there's also these it 
happens number of times in the 

344
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,280
film where if he's pissed off 
with someone, he imagines 

345
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,320
himself machine gunning them 
down. 

346
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,000
And I'm going to ask you this, 
Tim, because I've been trying. 

347
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,560
I've been racking my brains 
trying to think where I've seen 

348
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,760
that that done in a subsequent 
film or TV show. 

349
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,800
And I just can't think where, 
you know, that's been stolen by 

350
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,960
a by a later film maker and I'm.
I'm even even thinking, is it 

351
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,280
Lindsay Anderson with Malcolm 
McDowell in something like, Oh 

352
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,680
lucky man. 
That's the person that came to 

353
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,400
mind with me. 
I mean, I, I know what you mean.

354
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,320
I know I have seen it done in 
something. 

355
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,680
Else. 
And whether or not it is sort of

356
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,240
directly inspired by this, I 
don't know. 

357
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,760
I wouldn't be so sure of that. 
But there are sort of the kind 

358
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,960
of an adoption of it in the 
monkey's head as well. 

359
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,760
Oh, God, with the, you know, the
juxtaposition, the intercutting 

360
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,600
of the, you know, the Vietnam 
footage and so on. 

361
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,320
Oh yeah. 
It's very similar, but yeah, I 

362
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,120
couldn't say which Lindy 
Anderson film of the three Mick 

363
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,640
Trappist ones, but it's 
definitely one of them. 

364
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,480
But I think it's been done in 
numerous things, to be honest 

365
00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:00,320
with you. 
OK, but did we did it originate 

366
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,720
with Billy Lyer the film 
version? 

367
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,640
That I don't know, but what I 
would imagine is I'm surprised 

368
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,160
that that got through. 
Well, they will call the British

369
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,080
board. 
The film centres at that point 

370
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,680
who I believe on the original 
released. 

371
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,600
The only cuts I asked for was to
some of Liz's dialogue in the 

372
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,720
scene in the park where, you 
know, where she said that thing 

373
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:31,040
you wanted me to do that night. 
And I'm not clear on whether any

374
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,960
of that was subsequently put 
back in. 

375
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,760
You know, even the phrase that 
thing you wanted me to do that 

376
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,240
night might have been too much 
for them at that point. 

377
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,920
But I'm quite astonished that, 
you know, as you say, open shots

378
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,680
of machine cunning elderly 
people, even if it's this 

379
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,800
imagination, you know, was 
considered, I think it was an A 

380
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,320
certificate. 
So you know, it wasn't even an X

381
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,320
so. 
Even the language, because I was

382
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,840
I'm no, I'm no expert on the 
British New Wave cinema. 

383
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,560
OK, so I've got to rely on you 
here. 

384
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,440
But at one point, Mona 
Washbourne says something like 

385
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,080
Billy's pissed again. 
Yes, and there's a lot of 

386
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,600
bloodies in it. 
So when you can say to the one 

387
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,480
of the Mary White House's rare 
victories in the 60s was about 

388
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,280
the amount of bloodies until 
deathless due part, I hope she 

389
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,440
can go to see this. 
Well, someone says OK, it's not 

390
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,600
a swear word, but someone in the
in the towards the end of the 

391
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,720
film in the in the railway 
station canteen, someone says 

392
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,600
effing yes. 
Someone says bastard. 

393
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,480
And it's John Schlesinger who's 
the director of this film. 

394
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,040
The man behind the first X-rated
film to win an Oscar is that 

395
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,960
Midnight Cowboy of. 
Course, yes, Yeah. 

396
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,960
Oh my God, how dreary. 
Then he's pissed again. 

397
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,280
So glad you're going to London, 
you old loafer. 

398
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,360
Simone and I were thinking of 
kicking you out of the old nest 

399
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:00,280
any day now. 
Better come into the library and

400
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,680
we'll talk about the money and 
and keep your hands off my 

401
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,480
bloody razor in future. 
Here's another question and and 

402
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,400
you've, you know, the novel, of 
course I don't. 

403
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,080
But is how old is Billy meant to
be? 

404
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,880
Is he meant to be 17 because 
it's mentioned? 

405
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,520
It's not really clarified to be 
honest with you. 

406
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,920
There's not even a reference to 
how long ago they left school or

407
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,760
I don't think it even states how
long he's been at Shadrach and 

408
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:35,400
Duxbury. 
I I think it's very probably 

409
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:41,920
deliberately vague, but I do see
him as being in his late teens. 

410
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,400
But then again, he's already 
engaged to two girls. 

411
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,400
Yes. 
If he's meant to be 17, I think 

412
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,880
someone, I think his father or 
his mother at the beginning of 

413
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,520
the film mentions 17. 
So if if we're if we're meant to

414
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,000
believe that that is the age he 
is, then OK. 

415
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,680
Because Tom Courtney does not 
look 17. 

416
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,080
But anyway. 
But he would be the prime age in

417
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,160
1963 to be not. 
Not so much writing scripts or 

418
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,280
writing songs, but forming a 
band, you know? 

419
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:18,880
Yeah, I, I wonder if that's a 
hangover from, you know what 

420
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,920
they do. 
They do write a song, obviously,

421
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,000
but true. 
Yeah. 

422
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,640
But if it's maybe the novel just
predating, that's it because, 

423
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,160
you know, what were they done in
1959? 

424
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,800
Those tea chests with the string
and the washboard, you know. 

425
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,000
But maybe things just move too 
fast with the emergence of the 

426
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,240
beat booms have really reflected
that will be my guess to be 

427
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,440
honest. 
Did you notice? 

428
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,680
Because I've got this on DVD and
I paused it one particular scene

429
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,400
for about 5-10 minutes and just 
it's, it was squinting at the 

430
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,040
screen trying to make out the 
words. 

431
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,680
Because there's a bit where Liz 
stops outside a record shop. 

432
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:07,760
And did you clock the There's a 
poster on the window of top ten 

433
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,120
EMI singles. 
Yes, there is. 

434
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,480
Yeah. 
And I managed to make out about 

435
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,760
5-6, seven of them. 
And I checked. 

436
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:21,200
So you got Lovesick Blues by the
recently late Frank Ifield. 

437
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,520
So that was released in October 
62. 

438
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,440
And there's the next time, which
is Cliff in the Shadows, which 

439
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,720
was released. 
End of N62 baby Take a Bow by 

440
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,600
Adam Faith up on the roof Sun 
Arise by Rolf Harris. 

441
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,680
Unfortunately that was released 
October 62. 

442
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:47,080
So this has got to be filmed 
around well very late 1962 and I

443
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,120
I did see a a, an interview on 
the one of the DVD extras with 

444
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Helen Fraser who plays Barbara. 
I think that's. 

445
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,080
Yes, yeah. 
And she was talking about how 

446
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,560
cold it was filming in the 
cemetery, that scene in the 

447
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,600
cemetery because it was the 
middle of November. 

448
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,680
So that would that would make 
sense. 

449
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,200
So yeah. 
So it so The Beatles have just 

450
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,040
released Love Me Too, but they 
certainly haven't really made an

451
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,280
impact yet, have they? 
No, they're, I mean that I'd, 

452
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,520
I'd say, you know, things change
so quickly, but you know, there 

453
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,400
was there was a time where, and 
I'm sure you're going to get 

454
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,480
letters about this, but for a 
spell, The Beatles were a very 

455
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,040
big just another band, but they 
were just another band. 

456
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,040
No one knew how long they'd 
last. 

457
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,040
And during that time frame, 
Cliff and the Shadows, as you 

458
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,520
mentioned, and Elvis was still 
bigger than them. 

459
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,120
I think the scales didn't tip 
probably until some point in 

460
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:46,280
1963. 
So we're still not quite in the 

461
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,680
60s as people would recognise. 
And we're we're in hop goes the 

462
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:57,320
easel era 60s. 
And yeah, maybe that's why this 

463
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:02,040
has kind of slipped down the, I 
suppose kind of prominence 

464
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:08,280
charter 60s cinema is that it 
doesn't fit very easily into, 

465
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,080
you know, this nice, neat. 
It's the way things always 

466
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,560
happen when people try to look 
at things in terms of a decade. 

467
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,040
But it doesn't fit quite most 
people's vision of the 60s 

468
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:25,760
because it's a world we we can 
recognise it now, but we've got 

469
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,240
very little common with it. 
It doesn't really represent, you

470
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,840
know, really love or 
psychedelia. 

471
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,000
It's very cynical. 
I'm very rejecting of something 

472
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,320
seen as a, you know, a warm 
hearted golden age now, as I 

473
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,360
said. 
And because of that it's it's 

474
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,960
difficult to bracket it with 
other things. 

475
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,960
I had a friend of both of us, 
Adam Leslie, on Goonpod recently

476
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,240
talking about A Shot in the 
Dark, which was filmed in late 

477
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,000
63. 
And he pointed out that there's 

478
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,520
a scene there in in that film 
with where there's a like a jazz

479
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,400
band playing in a, in a nudist 
colony. 

480
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,440
OK, He said. 
If it'd been made just a year 

481
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,880
later, it wouldn't be a jazz 
band, it would be a beat group. 

482
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,080
Absolutely yes. 
In the 60s, twelve months could 

483
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,280
change everything, couldn't it? 
12 months was a long time in the

484
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,800
60s in terms of cultural change.
Well, that sort of brings me on 

485
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,840
to two other things that I think
really set this apart. 

486
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,800
As you know something for a 
bygone age is that it's a major 

487
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,480
film made in black and white, 
which is still deep recur at 

488
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,560
that point, but very shortly 
afterwards. 

489
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,280
I'm hard pushed to think of 
films of a similar stature that 

490
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,520
followed in the 60s that were 
made in black and white just as 

491
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,960
a matter of course. 
You know this Georgie girl, the 

492
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,160
idol, Morgan, the suitable case 
for treatment. 

493
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,560
And then in the late 60s it 
becomes things on the fringe 

494
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,760
like the committee, that very 
weird film with the Pink Floyd 

495
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,760
soundtrack that was consciously 
made in black and white. 

496
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Lindsay Anderson the bits of if 
in black and white it becomes a 

497
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,400
creative choice after about 
196465. 

498
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,280
And the other thing is it was 
made by Anglo amalgamated who 

499
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,960
you look at even just the 
selective filmography on 

500
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000
Wikipedia. 
How do we churning out all these

501
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,840
successes like, you know, the 
first decade to carry on films. 

502
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,320
Catch us if you can peeping Tom 
gongs go beat the Tommy Steele 

503
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,440
story kind of loving poor cow 
darling mask of the bed. 

504
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,640
I'm not going to go on and on. 
But the sort of workhouse 

505
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,000
company that you got in those 
days. 

506
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,200
It's just we make films, bam, it
is made. 

507
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,680
And you know, you look at how 
many they released a month and 

508
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,600
now you got people crying that 
they've had to sell the utility 

509
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,680
move or something because 
there's five months between 

510
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,760
Marvel movies and that 
inconvenience is them apparently

511
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,760
somehow because there are too 
many. 

512
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,120
But it I suppose, you know, 
cinema was still most people's 

513
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,240
media of choice. 
I mean, my parents often talk of

514
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,120
how people will go four or five 
times a week to the cinema 

515
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,880
regardless of what was on, 
regardless of whether they've 

516
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,120
seen it before, just because it 
was all you had to do. 

517
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,160
In those days. 
It wasn't even, there wasn't 

518
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,240
even that much radio if you had 
the television, you know, in the

519
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,760
1st place. 
But you know, the radio still 

520
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,320
had limited broadcasting hours. 
So cinema was where it's at. 

521
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,200
And it is literally, it's a 
product of an industry that in a

522
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,480
sense no longer exists anymore. 
What's the I may have missed the

523
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,640
significance of this. 
You can put me right here, Tim. 

524
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,080
What's the significance of 
Housewives Choice throughout 

525
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:45,320
this film? 
I think it represents a very 

526
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,920
ordinary institution on the 
radio that was, you know, in an 

527
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,640
era when you were starting to 
get, well, things like the Goon 

528
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,320
Show, but also, you know, 
smatterings of pop music on the 

529
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,080
radio. 
Am I right about this? 

530
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,880
In the Goons 1984 Is Housewives 
choice once the radio themes 

531
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,160
that makes Nettie collapse in 
room 101. 

532
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,200
Of 1985. 
Well, 1985, yes, I was thinking 

533
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,960
in the original 1984 that 
inspired it because that's, you 

534
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,160
know, the TV one, because I'm 
very much in line with Billy 

535
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,160
Lyer. 
Yes, yes. 

536
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,120
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

537
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,360
Well, I'm not sure about 
housewife's choice, but I'll 

538
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,840
tell you what, I pretty sure 
have a go. 

539
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,200
Was was one of the things. 
Yes, yes, it is. 

540
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,280
But I I think that's I think 
that represents a world that's 

541
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,640
anathema to everything Billy 
could achieve, because it's a 

542
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,880
very Blanchard and it's not it's
not the actual host. 

543
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,080
They've got Godfrey Wayne, who 
was one of those odd figures who

544
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,080
you don't get any more like a 
simple Fletcher figure who acted

545
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,080
but wrote and broadcasted. 
He never quite knew what he did,

546
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,440
although apart from the fact he 
was confirmed for the he never 

547
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,440
married type, which later baby 
laughed hysterically. 

548
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,400
In fact, he had the dating 
advice column for teenagers in 

549
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,560
TV Times very early on when he 
was already, you know, a bit too

550
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,200
old to be talking about some 
place to the young rock and 

551
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,960
rollers. 
But yeah, I think that's it. 

552
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,840
It's just it's something 
underpinning it that exemplifies

553
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,520
where Billy shouldn't be, where 
Liz shouldn't be, where Arthur 

554
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,880
shouldn't be, really where Mr. 
Shadrach shouldn't be. 

555
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:28,160
You know, it's I I don't want to
sound like a being really down 

556
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,240
on the lifestyle that was fine 
for most people, you know, when 

557
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,800
they were perfectly happy. 
And but the the idea that it's 

558
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,120
sort of pulling you back, you 
know, what is expected of you, 

559
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,360
keeping you rooted where you are
actually mentioning the radio 

560
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,320
presenter voice overs in it. 
I guess I was going to talk 

561
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,240
about Twisterella. 
Now there's a very odd sort of 

562
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,640
it cannot be coincidence. 
All of these people must have 

563
00:32:53,640 --> 00:33:01,120
seen the same showing on the BBC
in the very early 80s, about 

564
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,280
6:30 on BBC 21 weeknight. 
But within months of each other 

565
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,880
in the early 90s, you get that 
opening narration. 

566
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,280
You know your niece Irina's 
written asking for your favorite

567
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,920
tune turns from the start of 
Weekender by flowered up your 

568
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,880
niece. 
Irina's written to be ask you 

569
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:18,720
for your. 
Favorite. 

570
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:31,680
Tune and it's coming up now. 
It's also Ryde wrote a song 

571
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,160
called Twister Ala, which 
interprets the lyrics from 

572
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,120
Twister Ala, Even if it was 
about, you know, getting the 

573
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,160
night bus home from all hours 
rave clubs in London, which is 

574
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,840
not something Billy in his 
contemporaries really did. 

575
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,920
But also St. 
Etienne, now there is debate 

576
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,639
about whether it's at the end of
Ave. or at the start of You're 

577
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,560
In The Bad Way on the So Tough 
album. 

578
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,400
It's sort of sits between the 
two and the actual track 

579
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,600
Breakers between the two. 
I have my own feelings of that, 

580
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,480
which I'll keep to myself. 
But that's got a Man Could Lose 

581
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,920
himself in London. 
Mr. Shadrack, it's on that. 

582
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,840
So it made obviously it 
connected with all these people 

583
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,239
in the same way. 
Was London's big place. 

584
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,600
It's a very big place, Mr. 
Shadrack. 

585
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:38,159
A man can lose himself in 
London, lose himself, lose 

586
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,400
himself, lose himself in the 
London. 

587
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,680
I will also say around that tie,
just as in The Sight, the Shame 

588
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,120
and did Ebenezer Good, which has
what we've mentioned already, 

589
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:04,760
Mick Travis, Malcolm McDowell 
from Oh, Lucky Mountain, a great

590
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,440
philosopher once wrote. 
So yeah, they they've been 

591
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,200
watching a different sort of 
films to the 60s season, I 

592
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,920
think, but I think that's very 
significant. 

593
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,320
Bob Standy is a big fan of this 
film. 

594
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,000
Yes, yeah. 
As was Bowie. 

595
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,240
Well, sorry, no Bowie. 
This was one of Bowie's 100 must

596
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,400
read books. 
Not the film, but obviously the 

597
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,240
original book of Billy Liar. 
I'm not surprised because I can 

598
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:35,760
see quite a few parallels 
between Billy and what I assume 

599
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,640
the young Bowie must have been 
like. 

600
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,400
He must have constantly been 
saying, I'm going to this, I'm 

601
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,120
going to do that. 
I've got this great idea. 

602
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,560
And people will probably often 
accuse him of making it up. 

603
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:51,600
So he I'm sure he probably saw 
it as some kind of inspiration 

604
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,360
because that's that's very 
interesting thing. 

605
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,360
A couple of years ago I 
mentioned that I was watching it

606
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,040
on Twitter and I just replied to
myself saying, Billy, just tell 

607
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,720
everyone to fuck off. 
And it's interesting how many 

608
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,160
people sort of replied in the 
affirmative. 

609
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,480
Were there any interesting 
thoughts about it, including, 

610
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,760
you know, it wasn't just people 
I know there were some name 

611
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,760
accounts were replying to. 
I was really surprised by how 

612
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,440
that took off. 
But I think it's you can relate 

613
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,720
to that suspicion of ambition 
and aspiration in any sense of 

614
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:24,880
doing things differently. 
I mean, I, I don't want to 

615
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,600
direct yourself, but you know, I
remember years, this is a long 

616
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,960
time ago when I bought a domain 
name for the stuff I do. 

617
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,920
And somebody in my university 
goblins real life said, I think 

618
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,280
you should remember you've not 
won the Booker Prize. 

619
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,000
And it wasn't meant as a joke. 
It's meant as a vice. 

620
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,040
But you know, Billy is caught in
a nasty, cynical place with a 

621
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,560
spawn number of very loud people
who don't think anyone should be

622
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,320
doing anything that doesn't have
their own personal approval. 

623
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,720
I mean, dare I say it, I think 
that's how we end up with things

624
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:55,880
like Brexit. 
But, you know, everything is 

625
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,360
about them. 
Their insecurities, their lack 

626
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,920
of ambition, their fear 
relieving their comfort zone and

627
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,840
the idea that, you know, I think
we should all be calling all 

628
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,720
that out more just generally, 
but well. 

629
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,720
What's that? 
What's that line from? 

630
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,600
This charming man jumped up 
Pantry boy. 

631
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,080
Jumped up pantry boy who never 
knew his place, never knew his 

632
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,680
place. 
It's that I would wager the same

633
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,680
sort of people found an enormous
kinship with Morrissey before, 

634
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,920
ironically, he became the very 
thing he used to rail against. 

635
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,800
But I I think there's a lot to 
engage with in that. 

636
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:37,120
And I think it particularly 
speaks to, I say this from a 

637
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,760
mainly female family. 
I think certainly in those days,

638
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,200
girls, as in, you know, young 
girls and teenage girls, it 

639
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,600
wasn't even that their dreams 
were, you know, scored by this, 

640
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,320
got ignored. 
But if you were male, you could 

641
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,600
quite often find yourself being 
told to know your place because,

642
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,360
you know, you'd read a book that
wasn't considered, you know, 

643
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,200
suitable reading matter for, you
know, ordinary folks like us, 

644
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:05,480
which is making me sound like a 
terrible advert. 

645
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,280
It's not. 
But it's not the case at all. 

646
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,520
It's just I do know some of 
those frustrations and I've, I 

647
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,080
imagine ate whatever I was when 
I saw this. 

648
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,960
That's why Billy struck such a 
chord with me. 

649
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,360
But then again, there were some 
things that he did where I 

650
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,960
thought, no, I'm not a board 
there. 

651
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:32,400
I do like the character of 
Billy, but in some ways he's not

652
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,880
a very nice person, is he? 
Well, that sort of makes 

653
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,480
something I was about to bring 
up come on a bit more 

654
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,120
palaceable. 
Which is more than once what 

655
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,720
I've mentioned seeing myself in 
Billy. 

656
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:49,680
People have immediately replied 
with no your Liz, which is a bit

657
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,680
of a surprise to me. 
I'm quite happy that's how 

658
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,440
people see. 
Me. 

659
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,160
Although this is a long time ago
and they won't give up too many 

660
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,800
details, but I did once have a 
slightly suitable girlfriend and

661
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,720
a friend of mine said Mate, she 
even looks like Liz. 

662
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,040
So his warning was it was a bit 
too Hitler's in one bunker. 

663
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,680
But I, I, I'm glad that, you 
know, that's how I'm seeing if 

664
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,240
that's how we're we're regarding
Billy. 

665
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:20,440
So you've. 
Yeah. 

666
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,080
But Liz I. 
Think, I think he lashes out. 

667
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,560
To be fair, I think it's because
of people's treatment of him. 

668
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,040
He messes with them, which isn't
the right way to go about it, 

669
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,640
but that's why he doesn't 
deliver the calendars and he 

670
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,480
pockets the money. 
He's not doing it for his own 

671
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,200
personal gain. 
He's dipping it because he's 

672
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:36,680
sick. 
I mean, it's a sharp muck. 

673
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,080
Is is that not also just 
laziness on his part? 

674
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,000
I don't think it is because he 
seems quite efficient about 

675
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,480
anything in his life that 
doesn't involve his job or his 

676
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,120
parents, he writes to Danny 
Boone. 

677
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,200
I wonder if Danny Boone, this 
television comedian who's quite 

678
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,120
a hit in the town, isn't he? 
He's opening supermarkets and 

679
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,080
everything. 
Wonder if he's based if that 

680
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,800
character's based on anybody 
I've. 

681
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,280
Often wondered that because he's
he's in a very weird because he 

682
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,280
seems to be somewhere between 
Mike and Burnie winters and that

683
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,320
was the week that was literally 
no, he's a no, He's a mixture of

684
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,480
them. 
He's positioned somewhere 

685
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,240
between he seems to be a hit but
the youngsters and you know, to 

686
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,920
say that the bit dangerous and 
radical, but he also seems to be

687
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,360
quite happy to open supermarkets
and do sort of, I'm sure, you 

688
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,280
know, unfunny gags with the 
scissors. 

689
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:41,400
I'm kissing a pretty girl. 
It's all happening. 

690
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,200
Well, you've got a lot of 
relatives here this morning, 

691
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,240
haven't you? 
Who's that? 

692
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,000
Is that your auntie? 
Oh, no, it's my auntie. 

693
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,880
Hello, darling. 
Still slimming? 

694
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,840
It's all happening. 
No, thank you. 

695
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:03,600
I'm trying to give them up. 
Oh, just a minute, Bella, before

696
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,920
you take it anymore. 
Could I have a pretty girl from 

697
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,080
the audience to come up here and
help me cut the tape? 

698
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,560
Eh, any pretty girl. 
Oh, we have got a lot to choose.

699
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,280
From and we. 
Oh, what about you, darling? 

700
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,720
Yeah, you and the brown. 
What? 

701
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,280
Would you mind coming up here? 
That's a good girl. 

702
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,880
Oh, round of applause. 
Very sporting girl, man. 

703
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,640
See. 
Hey, what about a kiss to start 

704
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:22,880
us off? 
Eh? 

705
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,000
It's all. 
Happened. 

706
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,400
It's worth saying. 
Actually, we could be giving the

707
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,320
impression that, you know, in 
common, to be fair with a lot of

708
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:40,320
media at the time that the view 
of women, you know, we might be 

709
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,360
suggesting that it's not great. 
I think for the time, not just 

710
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,000
this, but I think there's a lot 
of his grandmother accepted 

711
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,320
sympathetic treatment of the 
female characters. 

712
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,000
And his mother is the one who 
goes back the wrong way. 

713
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,280
But she her intent is to reason 
with him and to get him to see 

714
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,840
sense and straighten himself 
out. 

715
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,080
She's not necessarily saying, 
don't, you know, don't write to 

716
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,720
Danny Boone, don't do the stuff 
you do. 

717
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,760
But she goes once I tell you the
wrong way. 

718
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,240
Now, his other two girlfriends, 
you know, on the one hand you've

719
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:15,400
got Barbara has basically 
already named their children 

720
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,480
when I don't think they wouldn't
hold hands in the cemetery. 

721
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:24,280
And Rita is bent on a sort of 
hard, fast, hedonistic lifestyle

722
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:30,000
that Billy, I don't give her. 
But they are both messed around 

723
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,360
by him more by his indolence 
than, you know, any malign 

724
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,920
intent. 
I think he lets things happen 

725
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:42,200
because that's easier. 
He just sort of not even goes 

726
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,440
with the flow. 
He lets other people do their 

727
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:49,960
thing and just sort of withdraws
and creates mayhem just because 

728
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,920
he doesn't engage with. 
Ironically, he's got engaged to 

729
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,040
both of them, but he doesn't 
engage with them. 

730
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,320
But they're hurt. 
That disappointment is properly 

731
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,200
depicted. 
They are given their say. 

732
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,720
Just thinking about this having 
been one time a, a teenage boy, 

733
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:11,240
you know, 17/18/19 year old 
teenage boy, as I'm sure you 

734
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,880
have been to in your time and, 
and being the father of a 

735
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,760
currently 18 year old teenage 
boy. 

736
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,560
I, I think it's quite accurate. 
The fact that, you know, Billy 

737
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,360
will get himself into these 
situations and just think that 

738
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,840
he can kind of brazen his way 
out of it. 

739
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,480
Yeah, almost. 
If they'll go away if he. 

740
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:31,920
Doesn't it'll go away? 
Yes. 

741
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,360
Yeah. 
That's the most frustrating 

742
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:39,760
thing about him in that, you 
know, in his aspiration is 

743
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,640
aspirational. 
Nothing about his actual sort of

744
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,640
personal manner is, I don't 
think. 

745
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,360
No. 
And do you know, just see if you

746
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,040
can guess who Barbara ends up 
with in the novel. 

747
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,440
Oh, OK, Because we don't see, 
the last we see of Barbara, I 

748
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,120
think in the film is her 
fighting with Rita at the dance 

749
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,040
hall or the bingo hall or 
whatever, wherever it was. 

750
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,360
So she ends up with oh OK, 
surely not Stamp. 

751
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:16,880
He is consoled by Stamp and I 
quite like that really, because 

752
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,120
in the sense they're a good fit 
for each other. 

753
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,280
She'd be better off with 
Crabtree though, with Rodney 

754
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:27,040
Bews. 
Well, in an ideal world, but you

755
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,800
know, we're not supposed to 
dream and aspire in Strathalton,

756
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,920
so. 
Can we talk about, we said 

757
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,880
earlier hinted at it. 
Can we talk about Leonard 

758
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,200
Rossiter in this? 
Yes, he's so good, even though 

759
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:45,040
he's basically a more detached 
reality. 

760
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:50,560
Bigsby, let's be frank, there is
so much he must have based when 

761
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,120
he was in the original stage 
play, but now on the box he 

762
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,920
became rising damp where Bigsby 
was Rooksby. 

763
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,320
He must have been channelling 
Shadrach, I'm sure. 

764
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:07,680
He's semi sympathetic to Billy 
in this I I feel. 

765
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:13,520
Do you agree? 
I do because I think he knows in

766
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,760
the sense of what it's like to 
be in this slightly detached 

767
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,400
from reality world, because in 
his own way he is slightly 

768
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,880
detached from reality. 
He isn't quite seeing the world.

769
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,640
He hasn't got a sense of the 
wider world outside his 

770
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,640
business. 
He maybe sees Billy in, you 

771
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,840
know, ironically there probably 
wasn't that much between them 

772
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,520
age wise at the time, but I 
think he feels a bit fartherly 

773
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,640
towards Billy so. 
Dad, Next up at home. 

774
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:48,880
Oh, thank you. 
So you're thinking of leaving 

775
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,880
us? 
Hey, is that it? 

776
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:54,240
Well, I was thinking since this 
new opportunities succeeded in 

777
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,440
obtaining a post with Mr. Danny 
Boone. 

778
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,520
It's the comic, isn't it? 
A comedian. 

779
00:45:58,640 --> 00:45:59,160
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

780
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,360
Very, very clever fellow. 
So that's your ambition, is it? 

781
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,280
Script writing? 
Oh, yes, It's always has been. 

782
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:08,760
You get a salary each week, then
would you get paid by the job? 

783
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,240
Right, Sir. 
Very, very difficult to say. 

784
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,480
Now, you don't need me to tell 
you that. 

785
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,120
It's very, very unprofessional a
letter like this, is it? 

786
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,160
Nobody wants to stand in your 
way, Fisher. 

787
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,200
Don't think that. 
But it's felt you might have 

788
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,200
gone about it in a more 
satisfactory manner. 

789
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,560
We were hoping, you say. 
We were hoping you're trying it.

790
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,800
One or two things cleared up 
before you took a step like 

791
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:35,760
this. 
Oh, yes. 

792
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,880
Well, I realise it. 
See, there's those calendars to 

793
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,920
be explained, for one thing. 
What calendars? 

794
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:43,000
I think you know what calendars,
my friend. 

795
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,800
Oh, Oh, no, no, you see, there's
been a bit of a 

796
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,600
misunderstanding. 
No, no, it wasn't a 

797
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,560
misunderstanding, Fisher. 
No, it's just that 2 or 300 

798
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,080
calendars didn't get posted, to 
my knowledge. 

799
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,000
We've got to get this cleared 
up. 

800
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,120
You see, Fisher got to get it 
cleared up and implemented. 

801
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,640
And there's this weird senior 
partner, I call him weird. 

802
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,400
It's, it's, he's again, he's 
kind of seems removed from 

803
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,680
everything Duxbury. 
Is it Councillor Duxbury? 

804
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,600
And that scene where he meets 
Billy, I'm guessing it's kind of

805
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:22,120
like a quarry or Billy's off to 
try and get rid of the rest of 

806
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,640
the calendars. 
And he has this conversation 

807
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:30,800
with Council of Duxbury where 
they're talking in, they're kind

808
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:32,480
of talking in Northern, aren't 
they? 

809
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,080
Yes. 
And at one point, Duxbury thinks

810
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,640
he's taking the piss. 
My interpretation of that, 

811
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,200
again, I'd say it's a little 
more explicit in the novel, is 

812
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,280
that Duxbury is also somebody 
who in his case, he thinks if he

813
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,000
talks to everyone involved in 
something in this sort of bluff,

814
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,560
northern way, then that will go 
away. 

815
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,520
The problem about the calendars 
will go away. 

816
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,840
You know, if I have a word with 
young Chabrac and a word with 

817
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,560
you, you know, and a word with 
your mother, I think that's sort

818
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,280
of that's the parallel there. 
But I have always loved Billy 

819
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,000
and Arthur's sort of riff about 
it. 

820
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,840
You know, when I first came here
I only had one shoe when I 

821
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,320
arrived around in taxis because 
I've only got 1 shoe. 

822
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,480
The the whole relationship with 
Billy and his father getting 

823
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,520
back to his father as well. 
Is it quite as toxic in the 

824
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,200
novel? 
I think it's even more so. 

825
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,320
And there, there are a lot more 
bloodies in it as well. 

826
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,960
Almost every word. 
I mean, I think we should save 

827
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,320
this until we talk about the 
various iterations and revivals 

828
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,240
of it. 
But it's surprising by the early

829
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:44,520
70s when they do the sitcom, how
many bloodies there are and how 

830
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,200
unshocking that would have been 
by then. 

831
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,520
Just in that sure, what tenure 
years was it? 

832
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:50,840
How much things? 
Changed. 

833
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,320
Well, OK, the sitcom, I think I 
was vaguely aware that it 

834
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,880
existed, but I've certainly 
never seen any episodes of the 

835
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,200
sitcom. 
Is it Jeff? 

836
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,920
Jeff Role. 
Jeff Role, yes, Yeah, it went on

837
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,200
for quite, in ITV sitcom terms, 
quite a while. 

838
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,960
I mean, it's only on for two 
years, but they did about a 

839
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,400
million episodes, right? 
It's very odd. 

840
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,560
It's trying to shoe horn the 
whole concept of Billy Lyons. 

841
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,320
Does some think it's not? 
You know, because this film 

842
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,560
could not be further removed 
from a cosy sort of 7:00 PM 

843
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,240
sitcom if it tried. 
Jeff Rose, really good, but he 

844
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,960
doesn't feel like Billy. 
But George Cooper, who I think 

845
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,800
could play this dad on stage. 
Oh, I can see that. 

846
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,880
And he's so good and again he 
says bloody. 

847
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,080
A lot of the time Barbara's in 
it, but there's no reader or 

848
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,160
list, which throws the balance 
off a bit. 

849
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,120
You can't see any real reason 
why about something different. 

850
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:53,200
As you know, everyone's mostly 
like him and like her. 

851
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,920
There's a Peter Scallon theme 
song, which is a bit novelty. 

852
00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:59,920
It's, I would call it the not 
especially strange world of 

853
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:04,240
Gurney Slade because it doesn't 
quite let. 

854
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,560
I mean, when they made this 
film, they must have seen 

855
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,520
Anthony Newley in the Strange 
World, the Gurney Slade, because

856
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,400
there's a there's a lot of it in
there. 

857
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:19,840
But I do think, as I said, the 
bits set in Ambrosia, the bits 

858
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:24,200
don't really work now because 
it's not got even the sort of 

859
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,560
Richard Lester style to it. 
It just looks like a standard 

860
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,960
cutaway where they've got 
slightly sort of Eastern 

861
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:37,600
European military key from, you 
know, nothing really sort of 

862
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,720
takes off about it. 
And they must have looked fine 

863
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:42,480
at the time. 
But I think it doesn't quite 

864
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:47,200
provide enough, you know, odd 
cutaways, machine guns aside, 

865
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:49,200
enough of a difference to the 
main action. 

866
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,480
And you don't get any of that in
the sitcom, incidentally. 

867
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:53,480
Right. 
OK. 

868
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,680
I was thinking because we 
covered Kind Hearts and Coronets

869
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:01,080
last month on this where 
obviously Guinness plays 8 

870
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,600
characters, 8-9 characters. 
And I'm not saying Tom Courtney 

871
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,440
plays 8 or 9 characters, but he 
kind of does. 

872
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:08,760
Yes. 
Yeah. 

873
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,000
Well, he plays different 
characters within Billy, I 

874
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:11,880
think. 
Yeah. 

875
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,640
And I think that's partly why 
the sitcom doesn't really work, 

876
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,880
because it just isn't the room 
to do that. 

877
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,680
I mean, you know, it's fine. 
I don't mind it. 

878
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,760
And it's much better, I've got 
to say, to my impression of the 

879
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,880
stage musical. 
Are you aware of that? 

880
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,480
No. 1974. 
Right. 

881
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,080
Now a stay fashion of Billy 
Lier, but songs by John Barry 

882
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,600
and Don Black should be right up
my street. 

883
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,400
But first of all, Billy dreams 
of being the next Fred Astor. 

884
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,400
Right. 
And I'm going to give you one 

885
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,000
guess who played him. 
OK, up and coming. 

886
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,000
No, no, somebody who was big at 
the time and you might hear a 

887
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,240
bit of venom and contempt in my 
voice. 

888
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:00,960
I do not like this performer at 
all. 

889
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:04,720
Oh God. 
I don't like a sitcom. 

890
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,600
That might give you a clue. 
Bloody hell. 

891
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,520
No Michael Crawford. 
Oh. 

892
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,880
God, the least Billy like person
you can imagine. 

893
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,360
Probably boy Castle took over 
later in the run, which we're a 

894
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,720
bit more interested in, but even
not it still makes me think of 

895
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,960
it being a bit like All Star 
record Breakers. 

896
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,400
You know dedication is what you 
need if you want to be a 

897
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,600
calendar stealing Barber 
engaging Danny Boone gag writing

898
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,080
record breaker. 
But I'm there was. 

899
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,040
Do you know about the American 
sitcom as well? 

900
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,440
I do. 
Well, yes, because I saw, I saw 

901
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,200
a photograph. 
I was doing research for this. 

902
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,680
I saw a photograph of Lou 
Ferrigno as the Incredible Hulk 

903
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:48,200
in an episode of the Billy Lier 
American sitcom with Steve 

904
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,480
Guttenberg. 
Steve Guttenberg, I've not seen 

905
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,000
that. 
I really want to see it, 

906
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,080
obviously because of my love of 
all things Marvel Comics. 

907
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,440
It's just none of it makes sense
to me. 

908
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:02,760
I'm. 
Guessing that there must have 

909
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,640
been dream or fantasy sequences 
in that and that's how the. 

910
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:11,640
Whole oh that that must have 
been surely but but really, I 

911
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,480
mean, you know, I love the 
novel. 

912
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:19,120
I love the film, but nothing no 
subsequent attempts have quite 

913
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,080
worked. 
I mean there was the the only 

914
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,760
official sequel has been the 
novel Billy Lier on the moon, 

915
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:29,680
which everyone forgets about me.
It's all right, but it's really,

916
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,200
you know, that's 1975. 
It's a harsher novel for a 

917
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:37,920
harsher world and Billy isn't 
where people would have wanted 

918
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,160
him to be. 
I'd I'd say a good analogy would

919
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,400
be if the first novel was the 
likely lads. 

920
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,960
This is whatever happened to you
know, it's a complete tonal 

921
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:51,600
shift and to be fair, it couples
some interesting themes, as 

922
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,960
we've already mentioned it, as 
mentioned, the source of the 

923
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,160
Mary Whitehouse mindset, you 
know, the clean up TV 

924
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,400
campaigning and there's a lot 
about, you know, sort of exposed

925
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,440
corruption that was round the 
business and politics in the 

926
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:08,440
70s, but it I don't think anyone
would argue it was asked good. 

927
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,920
We should mention as well, 
because we've not. 

928
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:12,120
I don't think we've mentioned 
him at all. 

929
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:15,240
Keith Waterhouse, of course, 
wrote the novel of Billy. 

930
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:18,120
Laws, yeah. 
And then he and Willis Hall 

931
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:23,560
wrote or adapted it for the film
and and would go on. 

932
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,440
And I and I recognise their 
names of course, but I as a 

933
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,520
child I grew up watching Worzel 
Gummidge, which of course they 

934
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,520
adapted for television. 
Yes, they did. 

935
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,880
And obviously they worked on a 
lot of late night SATA shows. 

936
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:41,280
They created Budgie Without New 
Faith as well, which really is 

937
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,960
probably how Billy Lier should 
have been known on television, 

938
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,240
you know, in that sort of longer
form, comedy, drama form. 

939
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:49,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that would 
have worked. 

940
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,360
But the amount of stuff that 
they wrote between them, you 

941
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,160
know, everything from Whistle 
Down the Wind to episodes of 

942
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,960
Minder Perfect Scoundrels, Of 
course, Return of the Antelope 

943
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:02,720
to. 
What? 

944
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,440
Return. 
Do you know their return of the 

945
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:05,480
antelope? 
No. 

946
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:13,880
It was a mid 80s ITV Sunday 
afternoon children's drama about

947
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:18,520
the Lilliputians accidentally 
sailed back to and they say, 

948
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,120
Edwardian England, but James 
Galway, the man with the Golden 

949
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,600
Flute did the theme and it it 
went on forever. 

950
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,760
It really did, but I've. 
Never heard of that, and I'm 

951
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,240
sure you've probably covered it 
previously on looks unfamiliar 

952
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:32,160
or. 
Something No, I haven't. 

953
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,160
I've not let anyone pick up 
because it just reminds me of 

954
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,680
very dull Sunday afternoons. 
But. 

955
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,360
My God. 
Well, yeah. 

956
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,240
Talk about versatile writing, 
though. 

957
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,840
Well, I know that Waterhouse 
wrote Jeffrey. 

958
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,240
Jeffrey Bernard is unwell. 
Yeah, Jeffrey Bernard is unwell.

959
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,000
Absolute. 
Yeah. 

960
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,920
That's such a, a gear change, 
isn't it? 

961
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,720
Yeah, something like Return of 
the Antelope, I guess. 

962
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:58,920
And they wrote. 
A good look at Torn. 

963
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,800
Curtin for Hitchcock as well, I 
believe. 

964
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,560
Yes, yeah. 
And if you look at John 

965
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,840
Schlesinger's credits, you know 
he does a couple of similar 

966
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,800
things. 
This like a kind of loving and 

967
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,680
darling, but later Midnight 
Cowboy, Marathon marathon, the 

968
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:17,360
Vulcan and the Snowman. 
And and two absolute cracking 

969
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,160
Alan Bennett TV adaptations. 
What do you call them? 

970
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:26,560
Sort of Cambridge spy related an
Englishman abroad with who was 

971
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,600
who was that? 
It was Alan Bates's Guy Burgess 

972
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,520
meeting Coral Brown in Moscow. 
And then a question of 

973
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,480
attribution was brilliant. 
Yeah. 

974
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:44,040
With James Fox as Anthony Blunt 
and Prunella Scales as the 

975
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,520
Queen. 
And remember there was eyebrows 

976
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,120
raised of the depiction of there
being a depiction of the Queen 

977
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,960
on television in 1991. 
Do you remember that? 

978
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,840
I do, yes. 
Again, how times you know change

979
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,400
because you can't move the 
depictions of the Queen now. 

980
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:02,280
No portrait painters tender 
regard faces is not very still 

981
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,760
lives. 
There was one eminent portrait 

982
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,280
painter who said that he wished 
he could hang his suit upside 

983
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,200
down by the leg like a dead 
hair. 

984
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,160
Yes, well, one Minister of Arts 
wanted to lose Francis Bacon on 

985
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:14,920
me, and that's probably how I 
would have ended up. 

986
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:17,640
He did the screaming Pope, 
didn't he? 

987
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,160
I suppose one would have been 
the Screaming Queen. 

988
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,080
Again, it's this carefree nature
of Liz that she just decides. 

989
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:30,920
She just convinces Billy to just
leave, leave and, and, and go 

990
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,520
down to London and follow his 
dreams. 

991
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,800
And he, we get the feeling that 
he he's he's, he's on board with

992
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,920
it, with the idea right until 
the very end. 

993
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,280
And then he essentially he 
chickens out. 

994
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,160
It's unlike the ambiguity of it.
It isn't explained why he 

995
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:56,600
doesn't go because I think it's 
he cannot let go of feeling he 

996
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,520
has responsibilities to people 
that he doesn't really. 

997
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,440
And if you look at everything 
Liz says, it makes absolute 

998
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,200
sense. 
I mean, she does say rationale 

999
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,960
is, I mean, this is a conflation
of the film script and the book 

1000
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,040
script. 
But it's, it's this town, it's 

1001
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,040
the people. 
I don't like knowing everybody 

1002
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,400
becoming a part of things. 
I'd like to move around without 

1003
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,880
having to explain anything, 
which, you know, is a very 

1004
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,520
relatable thing. 
But when she says you just buy a

1005
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,400
ticket and get on the train, 
that's all you have to do. 

1006
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:27,640
And I, I think it's that Liz 
sees his potential but knows 

1007
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,680
that, you know, she doesn't want
a project. 

1008
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,520
She wants him to realise who he 
is and he doesn't. 

1009
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,720
And that's why he doesn't go 
well there. 

1010
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,680
He is frightened to step 
outside. 

1011
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,920
You know what? 
In a sense it's not comfortable 

1012
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:46,600
because some things are going to
come back to bite him. 

1013
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,760
But he's got a solid background 
where he is a dreamer and he 

1014
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,080
doesn't have to make it reality.
Although I will say Liz's 

1015
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,320
expression breaks my heart, 
which is easy still on the 

1016
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,360
platform. 
Well, he's in his comfort zone 

1017
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,720
where he is, isn't he? 
He knows where he is, where 

1018
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,640
he's, he hasn't got a job to go 
to. 

1019
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,560
He's told Liz that he's going to
be writing for Danny Boone when 

1020
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,240
in reality he isn't. 
And, and it's also when they get

1021
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,920
on the, when they board the 
train and you get these, I 

1022
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,760
guess, what are they, jazz 
musicians that get on after 

1023
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,160
them? 
And he looks extremely 

1024
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,840
uncomfortable. 
Is it just because he realizes 

1025
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:25,440
he is not of that world? 
That he feels intimidated by it 

1026
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:31,520
maybe, but I think the key line,
which is from the novel, but 

1027
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,040
it's. 
I turn over and you leave every 

1028
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:34,680
day, but the blocks show 
through. 

1029
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:41,480
He cannot escape what is 
expected of him and it makes me 

1030
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,160
think of. 
I remember reading Brett 

1031
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:47,040
Anderson Swaid's autobiography 
again, although Suede never 

1032
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,160
sampled Billy Lier. 
But he talked about how he would

1033
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:56,120
stand as a teenager just on the 
platform at the local train 

1034
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,840
station, staring down the line 
and trying to see London at the 

1035
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,440
end of it. 
And he's somebody who affected 

1036
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,000
that escape. 
But Billy is no Brit Anderson. 

1037
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,000
That's interesting. 
In many ways. 

1038
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,600
No, he's not. 
But again, we get back to the 

1039
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,800
Bowie. 
Sort of, yes, yes. 

1040
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,480
I suppose just to bring myself 
into this because it's, it's 

1041
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:23,480
just occurred to me because from
from and the earliest age I can 

1042
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,400
remember, I remember being in 
Infant School and there being a 

1043
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,480
conversation. 
I don't know why the 

1044
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,840
conversation came up, but 
somebody said what do you want 

1045
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,200
to do when you grow up? 
Which is a bit of a cliche I 

1046
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,600
suppose. 
But 5 year old, 6 year old me, I

1047
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,880
remember clearly saying I want 
to go and live in London, right.

1048
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,480
And it's because I was, I was 
obsessed that I always had been,

1049
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,160
even at a young age with 
everything British, British 

1050
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,080
comics. 
I was reading Wizard and Chips 

1051
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,400
and you know, Buster and Beano 
and all that. 

1052
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,480
And I was watching obsessed with
British television because we've

1053
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,920
got a lot of it. 
When I was a kid, my late mum 

1054
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:05,600
was very into, she was, you 
know, she was a big royalist. 

1055
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,040
And that was kind of instilled 
into me at an early age. 

1056
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,160
Not that I am a royalist now as 
such, but I, I had this kind of 

1057
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:21,400
romantic idea of England, you 
know, and, and then, you know, 

1058
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,960
Fast forward 10 years or so and,
and I had the opportunity to 

1059
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:29,120
leave this very provincial, very
small town environment that I 

1060
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,000
did find quite, quite a bit like
Liz quite stifling. 

1061
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,880
Everyone knew everyone else's 
business, you know, and I think 

1062
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:43,480
subconsciously as a, as a, as a 
1516 year old teenage boy in 

1063
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,480
that environment, having grown 
up there, I just wanted to get 

1064
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:47,800
out. 
I needed to leave. 

1065
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:53,520
And I, and I, and I got this, 
this opportunity that very, very

1066
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,760
few people would have got. 
I had this opportunity to 

1067
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,360
actually leave and, and travel 
to the other, other side of the 

1068
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,480
world and travel and live with 
my uncle and aunt in Northern 

1069
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,600
Ireland. 
OK, not, it wasn't exactly 

1070
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,120
England, but it was still, you 
know, almost the same. 

1071
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:10,840
And I never looked back. 
You know, my eyes were opened 

1072
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:15,640
when I left my, my little town. 
And I've, you know, I've, I've 

1073
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,520
been back there on a number of 
occasions, but I always, I 

1074
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:23,400
always feel I don't belong here.
And I guess, you know, it's a 

1075
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,320
very rambling way of saying I'm 
in that way. 

1076
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,480
I'm a little bit like Liz, I 
suppose. 

1077
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,640
Well, I can equate that to my 
equivalent would, I suppose, be 

1078
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,280
that when I was in my mid teens,
I started to write. 

1079
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,920
I use obsessively in, you know, 
the old fashioned sense, you 

1080
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,760
know, fervently not, you know, 
it's going to sound like 

1081
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,600
stalking now, but with people 
in, you know, we're writing for 

1082
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,160
the enemy or doing things on 
radio for whatever. 

1083
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,600
It seemed to chime with how I 
felt and what I thought was 

1084
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,280
interesting. 
So, you know, that'd be people 

1085
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,600
like Armando Iannucci, Chris 
Morris, Catelyn Moran, David 

1086
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,840
Kwantic. 
Ironically, you know, a lot of 

1087
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,520
them are now people I now know. 
And you know, one or two of them

1088
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,760
might even consider me, you 
know, I don't want to say that 

1089
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,040
might consider me a consent. 
That sounds incredibly vain of 

1090
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,200
me, but you know what I mean. 
I have it the same world as some

1091
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,880
of them. 
And that, you know, I remember 

1092
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,760
people being really at the time 
sort of why are you writing to 

1093
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:28,880
this Richard Herring bloke, 
which but that was my sort of my

1094
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,200
world is over there, how do I 
get to it? 

1095
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,000
And I remember I've never 
forgotten this. 

1096
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,080
You know, people give advice and
so on, but Andrew Collins once 

1097
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:43,040
sent me a quite lengthy letter 
where I think he just sensed in 

1098
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,880
letters he was writing that this
was what I was looking for about

1099
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:52,200
just explaining how, you know, 
he got where he was by a mixture

1100
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:56,640
of hard work, I'm telling, but 
luck as well and using luck when

1101
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,120
it came up. 
And I've never forgotten some of

1102
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:03,120
the advice he gave me and that 
and, you know, I cannot thank 

1103
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,000
him enough for that. 
But that's, you know, that's the

1104
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:07,480
same thing. 
That's my writing to Danny 

1105
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,560
Boone, except I actually had 
some kind of direction in it. 

1106
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:15,080
And I have sort of ended up, I 
mean, that that makes me think, 

1107
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,240
what do you make of I'm aware 
the stuff we haven't covered 

1108
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,880
yet, but of the fact the last 
scene is barely walking away. 

1109
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,160
Sort of the the ending of the 
book's different, by the way. 

1110
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:26,680
But I'm not going to say 
anything about that because I'm 

1111
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,920
hoping people come away from 
this and read the novel. 

1112
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,720
But it's the barely sort of 
walking away, conducting an 

1113
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,320
imaginary orchestra, I suppose, 
an ambrosia. 

1114
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:42,560
And it doesn't tell me with I 
think people are hoping that, 

1115
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,120
you know, to use another in a 
way quite similar film, but from

1116
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:51,560
much later Quadrophenia, where, 
you know, very interesting thing

1117
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,360
came out about later. 
But you know, you watch out. 

1118
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,160
It's ambiguous. 
Has Jimmy jumped off the Cliff 

1119
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,080
or he's just thrown his bike off
the Cliff? 

1120
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:03,800
And most people are hoping that,
you know, because he's, he's got

1121
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:08,640
so much more sense than everyone
around him that he might 

1122
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,080
straighten his life out. 
And then it was only when it 

1123
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,720
came out on DVD that Frank 
Rotham, the director of this 

1124
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,240
commentary, pointed out that it 
opened with a shot of a very 

1125
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,000
determined looking Jimmy walking
away from the Cliff edge with 

1126
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,880
real purpose in his eyes. 
And he said it was always in 

1127
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:26,280
there. 
It's just nobody ever realised 

1128
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:31,200
that's what that was. 
But I think people, maybe that's

1129
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,800
why Billy Lier on the Moon 
doesn't really work and people 

1130
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,040
are not keen on it because Billy
hasn't. 

1131
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,920
He's betrayed your imagination 
of what he might be able to do 

1132
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,120
in a way. 
But the last shot of the film 

1133
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:49,880
does sort of indicate that he 
can't do that, that he can't 

1134
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:54,000
find that resolve. 
Well, he's not. 

1135
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,080
He's not walking home from the 
train station Blumley. 

1136
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:04,120
No, true. 
He's he, he rather, he seems 

1137
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:07,800
kind of relieved, doesn't he? 
And he is relieved when he's. 

1138
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,080
So he jumps off the train to get
some milk from a from a. 

1139
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,200
When did you last see a milk 
vending machine? 

1140
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,880
Possibly. 
Maybe so in about 1981 I think. 

1141
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,200
But he deliberately waits. 
He wants her to think he's 

1142
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,800
missed the train by accident. 
But obviously it's all 

1143
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:30,360
deliberate and Liz is made for 
swinging London. 

1144
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,920
He's not. 
It's interesting as well. 

1145
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,440
I noticed something that the 
film critic Alexander Walker 

1146
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:38,800
wrote. 
He said with Julie Christie, the

1147
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,800
British cinema caught the train 
South. 

1148
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:43,880
I think there's a lot of truth 
in that. 

1149
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:49,520
Actually, I think this is almost
like Doorway. 

1150
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,280
It's not a line drawn under, you
know, kitchen sink drama and 

1151
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,840
cinema how it used to be. 
And you know, as I mentioned, 

1152
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,800
the Anglo amalgamated churning 
out a film every 2 1/2 minutes 

1153
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,880
or whatever. 
Well, but it's like a portal 

1154
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:07,640
between the two because it does 
end, you know, Swinging London 

1155
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:12,400
invades it basically. 
And it's, you know, Billy 

1156
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:17,120
doesn't go but but again, that's
quite an important thing is that

1157
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:22,640
he doesn't help, you know, any 
situation that he's in. 

1158
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:28,960
But it's mainly down to other 
people's, you know, it. 

1159
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,640
It's his an activity and his 
lack of responses, the ability 

1160
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,760
to stand up to people that allow
situations to sort of develop 

1161
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,400
and worsen. 
But while things are his 

1162
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,120
responsibility and not his 
actual fault because it's what 

1163
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:46,880
the people impose on him quite 
often, sort of offloading their 

1164
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,600
own hang ups and emotional 
burdens that they won't deal 

1165
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,280
with themselves by transplancing
them on to him. 

1166
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:56,400
I mean, you know, yes, he has 
technically stolen the 

1167
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:01,840
calendars, but Shadrach is a 
vain idiot who is only concerned

1168
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:06,080
with running his business well. 
Rita and Barbara he treats badly

1169
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,760
but they have both been sold a 
lie in events. 

1170
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,640
Comments about, you know, the 
only thing that they can aspire 

1171
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,800
to in life are the two different
lifestyles they seem to have, 

1172
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,960
you know, uptight church going, 
you know, married to young wife 

1173
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:25,399
or, you know, blousey barmaids 
raising hell everywhere. 

1174
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,080
Well, and then then Liz is a is 
1/3 type. 

1175
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,240
It just shows that Billy doesn't
have a type. 

1176
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,359
No, not at all. 
They all look completely 

1177
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:34,279
different. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1178
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,399
Again, it's the interesting 
positioning of this film before 

1179
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:39,520
the 60s really happened. 
If you're looking for something 

1180
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,479
new, would you have been better 
off in the world of That was the

1181
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:48,240
Week that was and The Yardbirds 
were, you know, were, and then, 

1182
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,680
of course, you know, The Beatles
going weird as the decade went 

1183
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:53,800
on. 
What that suited him better? 

1184
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,080
Was he destined just to be 
provincial all his life? 

1185
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,640
Well, you see, I like that 
question mark, like that 

1186
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,520
ambiguity, which, you know, 
Billy Lier on the moon doesn't 

1187
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,359
really help with. 
And, you know, a musical where 

1188
01:09:04,359 --> 01:09:08,000
he wants to be the next Fred 
Astaire certainly does not help.

1189
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,840
Sometimes it is, you know, best 
to just leave things where they 

1190
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,120
are. 
Yeah. 

1191
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,840
There are questions that don't 
need to be answered. 

1192
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:26,800
You know, like, I still maintain
Smile by The Beach Boys was more

1193
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,479
interesting when we didn't know 
how it fitted together. 

1194
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,279
I'm not saying it made pretty 
easy listening experience, but 

1195
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:36,960
the fact that, you know, it was 
literally almost as though this 

1196
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,240
album being dropped on the floor
and smashed. 

1197
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,319
And there were these little cues
and like what? 

1198
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,920
What did any of them have? 
How were they related to each 

1199
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,359
other? 
And you know the tiny bits that 

1200
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:51,200
sneaked out officially, 
sometimes as part of other 

1201
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:55,200
songs. 
And sometimes these questions 

1202
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:57,760
don't necessarily need to be 
answered. 

1203
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:00,720
Well, didn't the Brian Wilson 
did. 

1204
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,640
He did put out. 
Yes. 

1205
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,960
Well, he he did. 
And then the actual Beach Boys 

1206
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:12,360
version came out fully put 
together and it was interesting.

1207
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:16,360
But again, it took away. 
It's like the way I don't think 

1208
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:22,360
necessarily people will be as 
invested in original Doctor Who 

1209
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:28,360
if there weren't so many stories
missing in the 60s when nobody 

1210
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,160
quite knows what they were like 
or what happened in them. 

1211
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:36,480
Because you think of so many 
programs that exist in full, you

1212
01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:39,840
know, from around that time they
were as big as Doctor Who where 

1213
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:45,680
nobody really cares. 
There is always this value in 

1214
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,560
the mystery, the non resolved 
question. 

1215
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:50,280
Oh, OK. 
Are you saying, are you 

1216
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:55,440
suggesting that Doctor Who may 
not have the same cache or 

1217
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:59,520
fascination as it has today if 
all the episodes existed still? 

1218
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:06,200
Oh absolutely, because I think 
for a start it may be more 

1219
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,880
easily available earlier on. 
There's there's that to 

1220
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:15,120
consider, but also that there is
always something compelling 

1221
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,720
about a missing piece of a 
jigsaw. 

1222
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,400
One of the reasons people are so
obsessed with Sid Barrett is 

1223
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:25,360
they're all lost songs by him 
that there's no way of hearing 

1224
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,440
unless they're very, very deep 
in Abbey Road somewhere. 

1225
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,360
Do you want to ever listen to 
Carnival of Light? 

1226
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:41,120
Yes, I do, but the reason is 
mainly because so many people 

1227
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:44,080
have said what's the point, just
leave it in the vaults. 

1228
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,600
So that has spurred me on from 
just being vaguely interested in

1229
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,040
thinking I have got a point to 
prove it. 

1230
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,320
I think that's that's different 
really. 

1231
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,560
Anyway, getting back to Billy 
Liers, is, is there anything 

1232
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:03,520
else that we haven't touched on 
that you've you particularly? 

1233
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,880
Yeah, I want to mention that I 
mean, this is an enduring this 

1234
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:09,480
about Billy Lier, the score by 
Richard Rodney Bennett, who was 

1235
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:12,280
a very serious composer but did 
a lot of soundtrack work. 

1236
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:14,680
He did the Doctor Who story, the
Aztecs, which is one of the 

1237
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,240
early ones that does exist later
in the 60's. 

1238
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,760
The billion dollar brain. 
Oh God, the third Harry Palmer 

1239
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,680
film, which you know, I, I, I 
love that personally, but it's 

1240
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,200
not quite as good as film as the
first two. 

1241
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,520
But yeah, his Billy Liar score 
wasn't issued at the time. 

1242
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:37,600
The nearest that there wasn't 
official release was Acabilk did

1243
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,560
the cover of Liz's team. 
Mr. Acabilk. 

1244
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,080
Mr. Acabilk asked the Billy 
Liar. 

1245
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,720
Just as an aside, I've recently 
been reading a brilliant 

1246
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,920
companion has just come out of 
60s romance comic strips, you 

1247
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,080
know, from British sort of 
comics like Valentine and so on.

1248
01:12:55,760 --> 01:13:00,480
And a lot of them like take the 
name and inspiration for pop 

1249
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:02,760
songs. 
But there's one where a couple 

1250
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:07,760
go to see Akka build and they're
praising his crazy rhythms. 

1251
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,000
I did post that on Twitter 
earlier today. 

1252
01:13:11,480 --> 01:13:14,400
I was just, that just seemed 
completely alien to me as a 

1253
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,600
concept. 
I'm not quite sure what was so 

1254
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,360
romantic about his music, I 
mean. 

1255
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,760
No. 
It's it's version of the theme 

1256
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:24,960
for Billy Liar. 
It's not quite as it appears in 

1257
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,080
the film, but it's never been 
issued since and nobody seems to

1258
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,960
know why. 
He's in the ghost goes gear. 

1259
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,000
He he is like a Bill. 
Not Richard Rodney Bennett, no. 

1260
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,040
No, I could. 
I could bilk with Nicholas 

1261
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,800
Parsons and Jack Hague and the 
Spencer Davis Group. 

1262
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:47,360
I would love to know. 
Well, no, I don't not even know.

1263
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,400
I'd just love to hear it. 
I'd love to hear the full score,

1264
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,680
you know, without the film 
dialogue over it. 

1265
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,520
And I just, I have no idea why 
that's never happened. 

1266
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,640
In the world where the 
Psychomania soundtrack has been 

1267
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:21,480
issued, complete with that sort 
of real and the guitar, when 

1268
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,120
that frog is revealed that it's 
just like one second long and 

1269
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:28,800
this done sound count was the 
frog, you know, why can't we 

1270
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:33,360
have the Billy Lyer soundtrack? 
Well, with AI, with AI the you 

1271
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,560
could probably separate it these
days, right? 

1272
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:43,880
AI Kabil could do it. 
Is this a fair depiction of the 

1273
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,440
North? 
It's just, it's because, like 

1274
01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:48,560
you say, it's not identified as 
any particular. 

1275
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:49,960
I know. 
What's it called in the novel? 

1276
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:53,600
What's the town called? 
Strathorton's slash strathauton.

1277
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:55,480
Yeah, but it's filmed in 
Bradford, isn't it? 

1278
01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:59,280
Yes, yeah. 
It could be any town I suppose, 

1279
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,400
in Yorkshire or Lancashire, the 
way it's depicted. 

1280
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,520
This was how the north was seen,
I guess. 

1281
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:06,960
I. 
I think so. 

1282
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,800
I think to be honest, you know, 
I've got to say I wasn't there. 

1283
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,560
I don't know. 
But I grew up in a town that 

1284
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:19,440
took a long time to, you know, 
despite shortly after Billy Lye 

1285
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:21,560
came out, being almost the 
cultural capital of the world, 

1286
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:23,760
took a long time to catch up 
with modernity. 

1287
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:27,160
You know, there was still the 
same sort of buildings that you 

1288
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:28,560
see in that opening tracking 
shop. 

1289
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:32,160
Billy Lyer was still around 
into, you know, the early 80s 

1290
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,400
Really. 
I think it's an honest depiction

1291
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,880
of what the North was like. 
It's like you've ever seen 

1292
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:42,640
Mourning in the Streets from 
1959, which is BBC documentary 

1293
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,480
about Liverpool. 
No. 

1294
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:52,080
And it looks like very much like
what you see in Billy Liar and I

1295
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,480
would, I suppose, air the 
episodes of Coronation Street, 

1296
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:56,840
even though, you know, that's 
mostly studio bound, but you 

1297
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,840
know, they do have establishing 
shots and so on. 

1298
01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:03,120
It's that sort of it's that 
hinterland between. 

1299
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,080
I don't know how to describe 
because it's it's even after the

1300
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,440
post war world, but not caught 
up yet. 

1301
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:17,080
It's not an idealised view. 
I think it may be a slightly, 

1302
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:21,880
but you know, obvious artistic 
reasons, slightly distorted view

1303
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:26,760
with the people and you know the
attitudes and you know the idea 

1304
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:30,160
of, you know, don't get ideas, 
but it's not completely 

1305
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:31,480
invented. 
Yeah. 

1306
01:16:31,480 --> 01:16:36,560
And then suddenly what, 4-5 
years later that we get the four

1307
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:43,400
Yorkshiremen sketch? 
Which has some again, they must 

1308
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:47,960
have seen Billy Liar. 
It's got some grounding. 

1309
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:53,680
Arguably in the take offs they 
do a Councillor Duxbury. 

1310
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:56,680
You know there there is a 
straight line. 

1311
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,960
To be fair, that was probably a 
familiar comic trope at the 

1312
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:03,200
time. 
But you do wonder, you know, 

1313
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:05,520
because that's one of the great 
things about Python is 

1314
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:07,560
particularly when you watch 
those early series of things 

1315
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:12,360
that only occur to you years 
later, what the inspiration was 

1316
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,440
with things like there's, you 
know, the sketch where it's got 

1317
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:18,080
the cardboard boxes on the top 
of the pop set performing yummy,

1318
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:22,480
yummy, yummy. 
And that is basically based on 

1319
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:25,800
an early BBC Saturday Born in 
kid show called Zoko. 

1320
01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:30,360
There's when Palin is doing the 
Gumby flower range says 

1321
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:34,920
chrysanthemum nums that is in 
dedicated to you, but you 

1322
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:36,440
weren't listening by Soft 
Machine. 

1323
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,360
Robert Wyatt says that and it 
came out just before it. 

1324
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:42,840
There's when they're doing the 
two Frenchmen with the diagram 

1325
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:47,240
of the flying sheep and pale in 
silence is clear by saying sweet

1326
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:54,000
a Lapiste, which was a ABBC 
thriller, like sort of French 

1327
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,440
language instruction programs, 
you know, like teaching you 

1328
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:01,360
words while these people were on
the run, say this is shadowy 

1329
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,760
agents, you know, so all of us 
in there. 

1330
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:06,200
So you and I have you and I have
discussed previously. 

1331
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,000
The Bishop, of course, is big. 
Bread with the hog? 

1332
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:12,400
Yes, with the theme and the 
Bishop. 

1333
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:15,480
I recently found that was from 
another long forgotten ITV 

1334
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:19,120
detective show. 
I think it might be called The 

1335
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:21,840
Informer, and I don't think 
anything exists of it. 

1336
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,720
All right, OK, yeah, all this 
stuff was going in. 

1337
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:29,560
So it's not impossible that 
Billy Lyer had an influence on 

1338
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:31,800
For Yorkshiremen. 
Good afternoon Councillor. 

1339
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,720
That's a grand day for it. 
That one has been watching 

1340
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,080
football. 
Hey, I'm just bound for a walk 

1341
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,440
over the mower. 
What's they got there then? 

1342
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:44,160
What Crown jewels? 
No gramophone records. 

1343
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,720
LP's there were not like that 
when I were allowed. 

1344
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:51,760
No record players. 
We have to make us own music if 

1345
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,120
we wanted it. 
Mill Boys Choir we used to have.

1346
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:58,920
Then there were Chapel choir, 
you see there were two Chapel 

1347
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:01,760
choirs because there was another
Chapel down Moor Cross Road. 

1348
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:07,280
But they're all coming down. 
All the old buildings, trams, 

1349
01:19:07,320 --> 01:19:10,680
they've gone city centre. 
That's all new. 

1350
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,240
You could. 
You could get a glass of beer, 

1351
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:17,040
meat, pie, cigarettes, matches 
and change out of full opens. 

1352
01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,240
If you're listening, Michael 
Palin, please confirm it. 

1353
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:23,400
And then please come on this and
then come on. 

1354
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,600
Look so familiar backwards. 
Yes, yeah. 

1355
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:29,360
We we look at the other people, 
snitch, tag over nothing, 

1356
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:34,000
because somebody please tag 
Michael Palin for a good reason.

1357
01:19:35,480 --> 01:19:38,520
OK, I'm sure I could knock 
together a few quid to pay it. 

1358
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:44,160
Not really. 
Intriguingly, I don't know, 

1359
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,320
Keith Waterhouse and Willis Hall
wrote a sketch for That was the 

1360
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:51,480
week that was called What is a 
Northerner? 

1361
01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:53,480
I don't know if that exists 
anymore. 

1362
01:19:53,480 --> 01:19:55,320
I haven't seen it. 
Oh, right. 

1363
01:19:55,480 --> 01:19:56,560
OK. 
Yeah. 

1364
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,560
So that would have been around 
this time as well, wouldn't it? 

1365
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,760
Yeah. 
I wanted to take an opportunity 

1366
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,400
to mention. 
A comedy film that slipped 

1367
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:08,120
through the cracks at the time 
that Tom Courtney was a much 

1368
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:12,080
later on but I thought was 
brilliant, deserves to be so 

1369
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,920
better now. 
In fact, I think it's not been 

1370
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,720
available on DVD since about the
year 2000. 

1371
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:20,880
I think it came out very early 
in existence of DVD and then 

1372
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:22,400
disappeared. 
But do you ever see what 

1373
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,360
happened to Harold Smith? 
No. 

1374
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:30,040
Which is, it's set in, so the 
early to mid 70s. 

1375
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,440
And he plays Harold Smith, who 
is the central character's 

1376
01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:39,760
father, who becomes a minor 
local celebrity when he appears 

1377
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:44,680
to develop psychic abilities of 
telekinetic abilities. 

1378
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:51,680
And it's not a romantic view of 
well, actually it's indetermined

1379
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:53,240
though when they're set as well 
because there's a character 

1380
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,640
who's a punk in it. 
It seems to be like, you know, 

1381
01:20:55,640 --> 01:21:00,320
the 70s is the setting. 
For my money, it's a really good

1382
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,120
film. 
It's just nobody noticed it. 

1383
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:06,960
I think it sort of appeared, you
know, around the time there was 

1384
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,200
obviously The Full Monty and 
Full Weddings of the Funeral 

1385
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:11,320
were very successful. 
And then there are a lot of 

1386
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:13,400
films that were promoted to the 
next Full Weddings of the 

1387
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,560
Funeral slash The Full Monty 
that were not. 

1388
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,480
Well, things that grassed off as
well. 

1389
01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:19,760
That was quite successful. 
That was, but then you got 

1390
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:22,760
things like bring me the head of
Mavis Davis and Solita too, 

1391
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:26,480
which which weren't, and I think
this got lost amongst all of 

1392
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:29,480
those. 
And I do really like it. 

1393
01:21:29,480 --> 01:21:34,200
I think it's a really good film.
Yeah, and I'm really the the one

1394
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,600
Tom Courtney film that I really,
I mean, I enjoyed Billy Liar, 

1395
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:41,440
don't get me wrong, but really 
enjoyed a film he made, I don't 

1396
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:45,320
know, 10 years ago, maybe 15 
years ago called 45 Years Not a 

1397
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:47,160
comedy. 
Oh, yes, yeah. 

1398
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,480
It's a it's a really good film. 
And Tom Courtney, I think went 

1399
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:52,840
on, in fact, I know he did. 
He went on care about a Mayo 

1400
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:56,280
show, pretty much. 
Pretty much told them, you know,

1401
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:00,240
spoiled everything in terms of 
the whole plot of the film. 

1402
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,640
Well I hope I can spoiler over 
Andromeda for anyone but. 

1403
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:09,560
No, no, no. 
OK, Well, Tim, listen, thank you

1404
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:11,880
so much for introducing me to 
this film because as I say, I've

1405
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:14,120
never seen it before. 
And I'm really, I really 

1406
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:20,400
enjoyed, really enjoyed it. 
And it's just, it's a film that 

1407
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,120
I kind of felt thought that I 
knew what it was going to be 

1408
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:26,520
like, and then it was completely
disabused of that when I 

1409
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,360
actually watched it. 
I'm really glad you did, because

1410
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:34,760
yeah, it's probably not for 
everyone, but I really like it. 

1411
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:38,440
Full of surprises, full of faces
as well, you know, familiar 

1412
01:22:38,440 --> 01:22:40,120
faces as well. 
I always liked that in the film.

1413
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:44,920
And So what are you working on 
at the moment? 

1414
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,320
You've got anything to 
particularly plug or promote? 

1415
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:51,160
There will be I can't really 
talk about something coming 

1416
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:54,240
later in the year that I would 
say it's worth watching out for 

1417
01:22:54,240 --> 01:22:57,440
and might even have a very 
slight amount of goon related 

1418
01:22:57,440 --> 01:23:02,720
content in it, which I can't 
really give away yet, but I'm 

1419
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:06,800
hoping it'll be worth the wait. 
But mainly at the moment, I 

1420
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:10,720
mean, you can still find me, you
know, various magazines, 

1421
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,640
occasionally on the radio. 
In fact, that was on Radio 

1422
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:16,360
Scotland only yesterday morning.
Talk about Dad's Army, which it 

1423
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:20,360
was a complete surprise. 
Well, a former high up at the 

1424
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:24,400
BBC had described it as the best
use of the licence fee ever 

1425
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:27,080
because it was a very cost 
effective programme made a long 

1426
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:29,600
time ago that's still being 
shown now. 

1427
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,520
And I was basically asked, do 
you agree with this? 

1428
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:36,240
And I kind of think, yes, I do, 
you know, because it's not Even 

1429
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,920
so it's particularly to my 
personal taste. 

1430
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:44,600
But you cannot deny, you know, 
the importance of the longevity 

1431
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:46,120
of it. 
And it points to the fact that, 

1432
01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:50,400
you know, this is what the BBC 
is there to do, is able to do. 

1433
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,880
And there are so many things 
that I like that, you know, 

1434
01:23:54,440 --> 01:23:57,880
varying degrees of longevity in 
comparison, but that would not 

1435
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,680
have happened otherwise. 
And so, you know, we need to 

1436
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:03,360
take that to heart. 
We need to take it as a lesson 

1437
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:08,520
because, you know, people 
listening to this might resent 

1438
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,520
the licence fee. 
But if you're a goon fam. 

1439
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:14,880
Yeah. 
None of those things would have 

1440
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:18,600
happened without the BBC. 
No, I, I say that I'm full 

1441
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:20,240
awareness. 
The Idiot Weekly. 

1442
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:21,960
And yes, it's the Catherine Ray 
tube show. 

1443
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:23,720
We're on ITV. 
But you know what I mean. 

1444
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:25,560
You know, absolutely there would
not have been. 

1445
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:31,160
But certainly whether this is a 
good thing or not, no other 

1446
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:33,360
channel would have done Queue. 
No. 

1447
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:38,600
Or owing colour, that's true. 
But yeah, but mainly if I meet 

1448
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:43,720
at timworthand.org and I do have
two regular podcasters looks 

1449
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:47,440
unfamiliar, which when I say 
it's Nancy nostalgia show, I 

1450
01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:51,080
don't mean it, you know, sort of
violently deflating space 

1451
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:54,560
hoppers stamping 1 bars into the
ground. 

1452
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:58,760
It's about when I say it's about
the things that you remember 

1453
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:02,320
that there was ever scenes to 
people take exception if they do

1454
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,680
remember something and that's 
not what it's about. 

1455
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:11,400
Like, for example, recently one 
of the Qils, Lydia Mizen was 

1456
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,120
always she's been on a few times
actually, but one time she 

1457
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:16,240
talked about look around you. 
And more recently she talked 

1458
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:19,000
about Harry Enfield smashing 
nice, the end of the era and a 

1459
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:21,600
lot of mainly men of a certain 
age of say, But I remember that 

1460
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:25,000
the point was Lydia saw these 
things when she was like what 

1461
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:28,160
11-12? 
I went around saying to people 

1462
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:31,840
jump in that weird show where 
Harry Enfield played those DJs. 

1463
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:35,600
No, no, no, I don't I you know, 
and to her it's a forgotten 

1464
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:37,960
thing. 
So it is anything like that. 

1465
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:42,520
The no, there's not been that 
much good content, I will admit,

1466
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:45,840
but you know, there's a lot of 
British comedy related content. 

1467
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:50,560
The other one is a podcast about
sort of Marvel on screen called 

1468
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:54,160
it's good, except it sucks where
I'm going to say not every 

1469
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,920
episode is for everyone, but I 
always get a guest, you know, 

1470
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,000
relevant to what we're talking 
about in terms of how they 

1471
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,640
approach it. 
So for it could be anything 

1472
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,880
from, you know, like what if, 
which is the sort of animated 

1473
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:09,080
series bottle turn that universe
is, you know, Martin Ruddock, 

1474
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:12,280
who's very invested in the 
comics, came on to talk about 

1475
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,560
that. 
But on the other hand, I've had 

1476
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,840
people like Catherine Lowe with 
people like know from the Don't 

1477
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:21,120
you want Me podcast. 
I've never seen a Marvel film. 

1478
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,040
Asked if she could be on it, 
went to see Thor, love and 

1479
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:26,440
Thunder, and we have an 
incredibly entertaining chat 

1480
01:26:26,440 --> 01:26:28,520
about that. 
And I do often get people on 

1481
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:30,960
who've never seen these things 
to get their opinion. 

1482
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:34,280
And it's quite interesting 
because on more than one 

1483
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,440
occasion they've enjoyed 
something more than I have. 

1484
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,920
Yeah, I I don't think I've ever 
seen a Marvel film in the wild. 

1485
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:46,160
OK, I would say if you like 
comedy films the next time, as 

1486
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:50,320
they frequently do, Ant Man or 
well any of them films apart 

1487
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,720
from Quad, Sylvania or any of 
the Guardians of the Galaxy film

1488
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:55,280
show up at the Graham Norton on 
BBC One. 

1489
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:59,240
Give them a try because they are
proper comedy films, the old 

1490
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:02,640
classic tradition and you will 
you. 

1491
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:06,760
I did say last time I was on, I 
did say on Twitter, you know, if

1492
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:08,600
you like comedy, give this a 
try. 

1493
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,560
And the number of people I 
wasn't expecting said I really 

1494
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,600
enjoyed that. 
Thank you for forcing me to 

1495
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:16,840
watch it all. 
Right, I always get Guardians of

1496
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:18,800
the Galaxy and Galaxy Quest 
mixed up. 

1497
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:23,200
Completely different aren't? 
They there's some common ground,

1498
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:26,440
I'd say OK. 
Because I've seen Galaxy Quest 

1499
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:31,000
and and this forthcoming project
that you're being a little bit 

1500
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,080
elliptical about. 
Is that the word? 

1501
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,320
If there is, if there is a 
possible way that we can 

1502
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:43,280
shoehorn in some sort of goon 
connection, then I'll definitely

1503
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:45,680
have you have your back. 
Oh don't you worry, I've I've 

1504
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,480
got IPS already. 
I did mention highway in it. 

1505
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:57,160
Oh, OK, Moving on. 
Well, that's what he did. 

1506
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:04,600
Yes, thanks again to Tim. 
Thanks for listening and thanks 

1507
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:06,280
for supporting Goon Pod Film 
Club. 

1508
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:07,920
Really, really do appreciate you
all. 

1509
01:28:08,440 --> 01:28:12,120
Next month. 
It's 60 years of a Hard Day's 

1510
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,120
Night, so I hope you look 
forward to that. 

1511
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:18,000
And if you can, you know, let me
know what you thought of this 

1512
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:19,480
month's show. 
That would be brilliant. 

1513
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:25,960
Any comments, feedback, it all 
helps, helps me to maintain a 

1514
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,840
certain level of quality. 
And until then, have a very 

1515
01:28:28,840 --> 01:29:02,800
happy August. 
The.