My wife and I've got four children so he stopped taking
that band. And I will recant.
I've always collected just with a sort of children's Boswell in
my lifetime of clicked on my children saying I literally
can't do this three or four stories that actually happen.
My daughter Jane was about six came in Monday with a small boy.
From next door, his name is Neil, that's right.
It was about four and a half, you know?
And he was about that big and that much was head.
This part is to call a Scottish cup.
Up, yours. You see the years?
You know, you pick them up like that.
So what about you me? Me and you had to get married.
So why don't we get married? So young and she said, Fair,
it's better to choose your husband when you are young.
It seems having to walk the streets looking for one for you.
Hello and welcome to goon pod. My name is Tyler Adams.
Now, if this is your first time To this show.
I just wanted to first of all, say welcome and to point out
that yes as it says on the label, this is a podcast which
bends are need to what I consider to be the greatest
radio comedy series of all time. If not, if not the greatest
comedy series. And I'll fight anyone who says
otherwise, no, I won't. But yeah, we do on this on the
show, we do. Cover episodes of the Goon show,
they are the Bedrock. If you like however, however we
cover a lot more than just that the purpose of this show is to
examine solo goon projects as well, so they can be films
television programs books. Other radio shows neck is long
as they have feature Peter Spike Harry or Mike Banting.
Then they qualify for this. We celebrate them or in very
rare circumstances. We ask the question.
What the hell was he thinking? So on previous shows we've
covered such diverse subjects as the magic Christian spikes,
poetry for children, Michael Benton's, potty time.
We've had a dread and himself. Christopher.
Douglas, come along to talk about 50s.
Radio comedy in general, talk about dr.
Strangelove Harry sequins. Wartime experiences Peter
Sellers on the radio, pre goons. And the recent play about Spike
by Ian Hislop, and Nick Newman, they're all available to
download and listen to and later this year we've got shows
scheduled on a diverse range of subjects as well as goon show
episodes such as it's a square world.
The great McGonagall and two-way stretch anywho and that's
blathering. I was I'm just forgetting that
this week. I have a very very special guest
indeed. Stay tuned.
So, this week, I'm honored and delighted to welcome Jane
Milligan. Hello Jane.
I, thank you so much for joining me today.
Well, thank you for asking me on.
Now you've been a, you've been a big get if you know what I mean
of mine for a long, long time. So really, really glad and
gratified that you've found the time to speak to be today.
So, Jane, obviously, I know that over the years you've spoken
countless times about your dad, On TV on radio and in interviews
and such like. So I just want to ask you
straight up. What are the questions that you
really sick and tired of being asked?
Oh, I don't. Well that I don't think I'm sick
and tired, but I could tell you the most common question is,
what was it? Like having a dad like yours and
that's a massive subject, isn't it?
So it is. Yeah.
Well that's the one I think that was what was it?
Like having a dad like yours. But it's normally fused with a
bit of that, the interviewer thinks that he's mad, he was
mad, you know, crazy, right? Okay.
He was such a crazy guy and girl.
He was at times, but he was other things as well.
So yeah, I guess the majority of interviews that you've had have
been conducted by people who don't necessarily have the
grounding well Spike. I mean, you are more of an
expert, I would imagine. But, yeah, everybody's got their
take but I suppose he's flipping out of people's Consciousness
now in terms of the young youth. Yeah, Shane.
But he's still his influence is obviously.
Lie. Still very strong.
Yeah. Well one of the reasons I
started this podcast was to keep in my own little way, little
humble way to keep the memory of of the games and by extension,
Spike and Peter and Harry and Michael alive.
And you'd be surprised Jay because, you know, I'm in my
late forties now, and I've had so many guests on over the last
12 months who have In either around my age or younger, who
either Spike fans or seller's fans or goon fans who all got
into the Common Thread is that they all got into either the
goons or or Spike through parents.
That seems to be the the, the common way in if you like yes.
So I think you know, and I think even now just looking at people
on Twitter and Social media. I think spike is still very much
loved and very much remember maybe, you know, maybe that will
Decline and will that will decline more and more as the
years go on but I think while we can we should celebrate him.
Yeah, sure. I mean, we have a cunning plan
to produce a few of his children's stories as plays and
there's also the bed sitting room is poised do something.
So his work is Still present. And also his his cards is
calendars that Norma Barnes creative, a still very popular
and plus his making a little film about him.
We're doing a little documentary about all of his archive.
Being housed in one place. It's not an introduction to
spike. Just a film about who he was
across the board. As this multidisciplinary artist
whose habits, So many types of work so many art artistic forms
of work. So we're creating also a an
exhibit on his life celebrating his life and that will be a
permanent installation that Avenue house in.
North London. Hopefully opening in the spring,
some testing Absalom. The other thing is though that,
you know, just this year, we've had, and I've interviewed Nick
Newman and John daglish and and Margaret K1 Smith about Spike,
the the play. Yeah, it's great.
Yeah, really good. We enjoyed it and recently faced
a couple of weeks ago. I was talking to Ian Billings.
Who think you've worked with a coon?
Haven't you? Yes.
That's right. We did well I say work with he
wrote the most recent version that was yeah it was sorry, he
adapted adapted. Yeah absolutely but he's
obviously he's written for radio alarm spiking in spike in the
Elfin Oak. There's Beautiful.
Wow. What a piece?
Yeah, really good. So this guy.
Yeah. Ian is is really thrilling with
this input. Fantastic.
That's the thing. It's so spikes influence is
still very much felt. Well yeah we're saying he might
fade but he still got his foot in the door.
It's me. Absolutely.
And I wanted just to mention spike in the Elfin Oak as a kind
of a jumping off point if you don't mind because very good
friend of mine who's been a guest on this show, Mike
Haskins, he supplied me with an old, this is going to sound
weird and old woman's Magazine from the 70s, okay, called
woman. Yeah.
When then used to get it every week woman and woman Zone should
get both. Yeah, I think my mum used to get
Family Circle. So yeah, Grandma you Australian
or New Zealand? Kiwi, New Zealand, New Zealand.
Okay, so yeah, my granny was in Sydney knew that Be warned Boy.
Yes goes. Well the reason that Mike
supplied me with this at this magazine was because it had were
at least he supplied me with an article that covered about five
five or six pages of this June 1975 woman magazine and it was
an interview and I would imagine it was quite a rare interview
with your mum. Yeah.
And I just wanted to read you a little bit if you don't mind
because it's just just think it's it's quite touching as
Right? What's the word enlightening?
I suppose about your dad and how he was with the children with
with you in your siblings. Do you mind if I just read this
little secret? Yeah, the Articles entitled,
that's my marriage and I'm stuck on it.
Okay. The house which they bought
recently. Looks much as one might imagine
and Milligan house. That look A soaring castellated,
Victorian fantasy and red brick complete with Tower and
baronial. Hall.
I'm still not quite sure how many rooms there are.
She said this is Patti but of course it has a fairy garden.
Spike would never buy a house that fairies might not like our
challenging. Our children can tell you that
if Jane our fourth and youngest comes home and time, she can
show you some of the Fairy letters.
She receives. The last one came on her, eighth
birthday folded in the heart of a rose.
Found by her bed when she woke up.
The writing was like a cobweb. So tiny that, even Spike needed
a magnifying glass to read it. It told her that if she went
into the garden and search the hearts of the Roses, she would
find a fairy present. And she did, he was little gold
Birdcage to go and her charm bracelet.
We thought it was probably for a ferry to ride in whenever one
wanted to be taken somewhere on Jane's wrist, do you remember
the whole that? Yeah.
But there's extra bits. I forgot.
Yeah, they both do work together on that they were in cahoots.
I think she certainly wrote one of the left.
So I've still got definitely her.
I can see it's her writing. Yeah, and the dad's, but yeah,
he actually phoned me from the extension upstairs.
It was my birthday party and he phoned me from upstairs now.
I, I was told it was the fairy King was on the phone.
It was dead on the extension upstairs.
Remember when you used to be able to use the extension?
Yes, I went. But I went along with the whole
thing because I had a room full of school friends, you know?
We were all in our party gear. Hmm, I spoke in it was him
telling me fairy, King telling me about this gift.
It was in the in a rose and the gardener can remember running
down the Gardens of the rose bushes and searching for it,
finding it in, remember it very, very beautiful, very clearly.
Lee. Yeah.
Yeah, that's lovely. The Jews.
Did you ever you ever conscious of the fact that 1.0 actually
he's famous. Not just suddenly.
I think it was a gradual. You get a you get a your groomed
to understand the way that works by you experience in being on
television, going to the studios and watching it being filmed and
then you know, you get it as an audience and go go.
Is this right? And then oh yeah.
He appears here. Is it creeps up on you?
And as you get older you realize it's a, he's a, he's a
well-known person and known known by many for Being Korean
entertaining them. I mean, when I was growing up it
was the 70s. So he was, he was very fighting
for the underdog, many underdogs, and champion of the
underdog and a campaigner for the rights of people.
So there were a lot of rallies and letter writing and t-shirts
with Friends of the earth and Greenpeace and save the whales.
And yeah. Well, I thought He's a hero.
He was heroic to me. I got that sort of inspired you
you've sort of inherited that. Yeah, that stuff in hand it
down. Yeah.
Let's go to ask you a deed. Is this is there?
Do you feel you take more after Spike than you?
Do your mum or or vice versa? I'd say there's a It's of bugs
have been present in me. Definitely, probably got both of
them. She was extremely funny.
Woman in my godmother, said to me Mary Gilly at my godmother.
She said to me, Your mother was funnier Spike.
I loved that, but he was very funny lady, but I guess you
would have to be to marry spiked with me.
She was a Yorkshire lady no-nonsense, Taurus.
Oh I'd speak speaker, she finds? Yeah, that's sort of Yorkshire
drama school Ram that out of her but she was very strong towards
lady and dad was Was pretty bendy with the rules around
children, you know? Like, I'll let them stay up that
kind of thing. Tickle, my suddenly cried, baked
got an idea, you got an idea, I got an idea, I know a big strong
ego called Jimmy's, my friend and he owes me money I'll go try
and get him. Ding almost jumped up on the
ledge to and climbed the ivy on the outside of the tower.
All the way down to the ground. Hello.
Please. Hurry.
Morning from the children, giggle mouse ran as fast as he
could. He ran so fast his tail caught
fire, and he had to sit in a bucket of cold water to put it
out. I wonder what you mentioned
about some of his children's stories.
Yeah, I played your little bit of a picture I got into I first
discovered Spike through bed. Jerry the which, which was,
which was the earlier, obviously, was a stupid Talk
about it. I heard the he did an audio
version of a sentence and it was an old pit was a record, wasn't
it? Yeah.
And I grew up in New Zealand and they every Sunday morning they'd
be like an hour-long kids program on the radio and say
yeah. From my good friend Nathan
Graves. Yeah okay yeah so that play was
almost like a it was like the radio station only had three
records though one was Captain be key and his band one was Was
The Tinderbox by Hans Christian Andersen.
I seem to remember and I would spark his magic piano and
bajjali and that journey I was absolutely obsessed by it.
When I was whatever age. I was five, six, seven, eight,
and and that was my into despite Milligan.
And that was, that was only knew him for the longest time.
But I still listen to that. Now, I still think it holds up.
It's a Story. Yeah it is it's quite successful
over in New Zealand. Still goes out as a play and
someone's doing a like an Orchestral Version of it.
This summer. They want to do it again next
summer. Next year, she's 15.
Imagine oh wow. Yeah 73.
Yes of course. Yeah I mean it'd be great if we
could make a good big fuss of her next year.
I mean like everything Spike that is very subversive, isn't
it in many ways? And, and if you've got, you've
got God in it. You've got a witch who clearly
dies in very violent circumstances, but when I was a
kid, you never think of that. He's think this is fantastic.
It's just think this is well, out the biggest of all the good
guys, God, right? We'll put him in a starring
role, so yeah. Right?
If we did it on stage, we could, if you could get spikes
voiceover to be God. Yes, the show.
Can? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
That. That was my first exposure to
the equals voice as well. Wow.
Vocal cords of a guard. My god, did he?
Um, did he tend to sort of walk around the house?
Doing voices many voices, many, many, many voices.
Children's. I mean, storytelling he would.
Do you do storytelling if he was home at bedtime?
Yeah, amazing story telling but bad jelly is the culmination of
many, the honing of the bedside story for the kids.
You know, he obviously worked on that for years and that's the
definitive. But there were many made up of
the cuff stories that the Blackboard situation was
incredible because it's chalkboard at the end of the
Bedroom. This isn't the first house we
were in and story would be have drawings as well.
Tell still animating, you know doing amazing drawings at the
same time. So bad jelly came out of that,
all of that, my siblings before me and then the there were a few
other stories I found in some boxes you know beginnings of The
magic revolving, which that's what it sounds like.
It's going to be interesting and version of Sleeping Beauty and
magic fairy story. And was the, there's dip the
puppy that was published. Yeah, excellent.
Yeah, this loads anyway, he's got a lot of other bits and
pieces that never published but we're hoping to see the say
about this Blackboard. I had Mark Thomas comedian Mark
Thomas as a guest previously and He met Spike and number four, a
couple of occasions when you first met him, he asked him for
his autograph and he said that spikes writing and I've seen
obviously I've seen spiders writing and his signature
particularly as it's like it was just weeds.
We described it as like in it a small illustration is his
signature because it's so it is. So when he's writing on the
Blackboard is he painstakingly writing like that old as it just
a scroll like a cat? Those were just characters just
drawings of characters. Okay.
Yeah, it wasn't. There were there wasn't, I don't
remember there being words, so characters.
Sure. Sure, sure.
Obviously, this is the podcast focused on the Goon show as
well. And you were born too late, the
Goon show but did you did you did you take to it?
Yes completely devoted and not very knowledgeable about all of
them but I love them. And I just click in just, you
know, have a list. Just love it, really?
Yeah, you know, I still think it's very current.
A lot of it is a lot of it is and I'm relisting to it to the
mall for the purposes of this. 300 of them.
Yeah. Well they made three the 2250
something like that, but a lot of them of the early ones were
lost. Unfortunately.
Yeah. But the hundred and forty odd
that That remain. There's so you can get something
out of every single show. Yeah, yeah.
Oh God. Absolutely.
And the music jazz. I just love the Jazz.
Yes, it's just killer program, isn't it?
Yeah. Every every single aspect, every
single performer, there wasn't a week before, my they each had,
they each had a skill or skills and, and I'm what I've come to
appreciate more as a middle-aged man, and I'm thinking Harry was
fantastic. Yeah.
Harry Harry was great and what a great guy.
Real level level level and guy, wasn't he the calming leveling
influence? Did you did you meet obviously
it meant peterman's Harry, but did they did they visit
regularly? Did you see them regularly
Northern SRI Sai sort of several times in my life?
So there weren't regulars. I mean Peter was in l.a. by the
time I was I was growing up I mean I think they were all
around me going I was really It'll but certainly Harry.
We went to visit them in New York and we came to the house
for dinner. We met them in restaurants.
Yeah, I probably saw them. You know, maybe eight ten times
Harry. I know his son is two sons and
two daughters. I know them all well Jenny,
unfortunately up obviously as yeah, Peter was a bit more
distant but I think I remember there being dinners and
get-togethers and Stare at your phone calls and appearances on
various TV and film sets seeing them together there.
Yeah, he really, he was very sad when Peter died and bury it.
You just lost Patti and Peter in the space of three years.
And that was a ceiling, a glowing glow.
Good, good buddies. They were great buddies.
Deep good buddies. All three of them vent will not
so much. That wasn't that friendly with
dentine. There's a lot of competition
animals. Yeah, it's the difficult.
Clear. Why the reasons?
Why my own team left the goons? That was never quite clear but I
think it was competitiveness, a lot of it.
Yeah. And it appeared like Benton was
very talented and Brilliant and very wealthy from a very wealthy
background. But him several times I can
remember him being very warm and funny.
Yeah, I would. Imagine that your dad's politics
of Mike's politics, were poles apart as well.
I think so. I would imagine that would also
be a factor. Yeah, sure.
Maybe they were both quite Alpha maybe there wasn't room for both
of them. Sure.
For sure. It was 50 years ago, two weeks
ago, that the recording of the last goon show of all occurred
because it's about another Week 28 was the very first airing of
the crazy people. That's right.
Yep. So likes youngest grandson
birthday strangely. All right.
Yeah. Callum is the youngest
grandchild. And that's his birthday.
He's a, he's a musician. Like his Grand that.
He's a good drummer. Great job.
So what are the grandchildren make of spikes Legacy?
They? They carefully weighed through.
It's been up and down because, you know, they knew him as
little people, they, you know, they spent quite a lot of time
going down to visit Grandpa and Rye or he came to see them in
Barnet, you know, there were Christmases and Easter's and
birthdays, all that till I think the eldest was about and when
Grandpa died, they're a little older.
Sorry, I'm not, I'm getting that wrong.
There are a bit older than that, but they definitely hung out.
Together and loved him and they all got on great and he was a
great sweet older guy older man than you quite delicate in his
final years but just adorable wonderful to be around.
Oh yeah, they got a big day. Had a good girl in there.
Grandad, he has a very special relationship with his
granddaughter Georgia who lives in Sydney, J and Georgia, or
the, the children of my big sister Laura, right.
Jay and Georgia Georgia would come out.
Quite a bit you know that they that they also saw the ground
that a lot and special times because they were just there for
three weeks. You know, whatever and Georgia,
and Grandpa were really tight. She was a beautiful little
blond-haired. Princess, beautiful girls
strong, you know what you want to be, grow up, Georgia, I want
to be a general. It's three years old, he does
hated that Spike hated military. Preity.
But yes, she and he got on great.
He used to have eggs on toast together.
Hang out. So he was a little grandpa with
the kids but in terms of now and it got very messy through, you
know that the final years of granddaddy was poorly and and
hit and Sheila is his third wife was struggling to deal with it
and it was it was they stayed away a bit and then post spikes
death. It's pretty ugly, probably wise.
So I would imagine that I'm a bit of a bitter taste about
having this legendary Granddad you know when you grow up in the
environment of a well-known person you don't saturate
yourself in their material like fans or general public might
because it's your family and the work is there its presence in
it's all around you and you do of course experience a lot of it
and a lot of poems test it out on you and stories.
Things like that. But at the same time they're not
they don't really they probably don't listen to the Goon shows
as a matter of course or listen, all know about his music or you
know, but they know he was at SuperDuper special human being
because they saw Prince, Charles give him a Knighthood, it
Clarence House. So something good is going.
They all wearing their little suits and bowties there was
there was no animosity from Charles about the growing little
bastard line than none whatsoever.
He actually it was at first a bit of a bubbles in it.
Yeah. Remember that moment where it
burst the bubble in the room when they but he said it just
very quickly and the whole room was the moment, it's like
something burst. Somebody said something about
the king you, but if anybody was going to say, it's got to be the
Court Jester. And that Spike, isn't it?
Yeah, it wasn't. Was it just was a purely off the
cuff or had he kind of he was pissed.
He had been living there. Drinking wine on his own on an
empty stomach at 80 odd. Whatever he was right?
Yeah. And and with the award, I think
it's one of those ones that they tell you beforehand, you're
going to get it because it was a lifetime achievement, so he
probably had a few words somewhere in his head, but he
sat there drinking wine till the end of the three.
Our bloody filming, you know, but I had to speak and genuinely
I could see him struggling with embarrassment apart from the
fact is Probably wobbling on his pins and starving hungry.
He got his hanky out several times.
And I know that thing, you know, he was embarrassed, he didn't
like, Jonathon Ross. He made that quite clear.
And as the letter began to be read from Prince Charles, it
just came out and it was just spontaneous and Brilliant.
Mmm? Right on time.
Everybody loved it and it's funny.
It's what people remember him for that.
And I told you I was ill. I just going to say it's I told
you I was ill and the Prince Charles quip.
Yeah, so yeah, and and also very another weird thing that's
happened and it happened when the pandemic sort of in, its
full thing last year with you before the poem, the smile
started doing the rounds on social media and stuff.
And now Spike didn't write that poem, but it had been attributed
to him and it had kind of pandemic.
It had virus in it. Let's it's about smile to bread,
spread a smile. Around the world and everybody
will catch. Catch it.
And spikes name is on the bottom of this poem.
People just sending it to made sending it everywhere.
It wasn't even by him. The people people think it is,
it's needs to be the Jazz all bruh, who wrote it.
It's a bit of a slap in the face but the do our best to try and
rectify it that it's that it wasn't ours, see?
Leo wasn't so sure, you know, whether it belonged to spike or
not, people wouldn't have done and I said, no, I just didn't
feel like it was his poem. No way.
I would have known about it as a kid.
Yeah. Some of my favorite of his
creativity is just, as poetry. I think it is astonishing the
poem. Some of them.
I think they're incredible. I think they're just like this,
so healing. But could because it's my dad
and I understand his language, but I just haven't poems, are
off the charts. Funny, cute touching movie.
Can you hear my dog going crazy? And my son was born. 16 years
ago, we were given a book of sort of, I don't know.
First thoughts, you know, for new parents to write thoughts
and jot down whatever about New baby and I was sat in the
hospital with this tiny little creature.
That was only hours old. I was just thinking I want to
write something in this book. I didn't want to write the first
thing that came into my head was that Spike poem?
Try to think how it goes now. My darling little baby.
I wonder what he'll be prime minister of Denmark or the king
of Italy. I waited 20 years to see what he
would be. He's now a dustman and chizik.
Oh, Deary Deary me. So lovelies.
His Mastery of words, I think I'm mad, don't you?
You paid to come in. Maverick off of a famous
Gunslinger partner. Maverick prowls had rumbling
bowls but under the night it took the bedrooms all around and
gave the poker face, the doctor called he was appalled.
When through his stethoscope, he heard the sound of a baby home
and the acrid smell of smoke yesterday.
Thought you've been in Cotton Asiatic, flu, you mustn't go
need dogs aisyah, unless they come near you, I want to talk
very funny after that just creation.
Just I mean I'm Swimming in it. And I because we've got this the
lodge Cottage on the estate Avenue house, that's operating
as an alphas and storage and and, and the beginnings of this
exhibit and it's just full of goodies.
Goodness stuff, poetry books. That is great music, paintings
collections, his archaeology these the dig the stuff, you
know his clothes. I've got all these lovely
performing shirts. And his dance, been three piece
suit and his is beautiful. Susie got married in.
Got I got his energy all around and it's, it's wonderful, it's
great stuff. You know, I hope we can do a
good thing with this exhibit. Oh, great.
Just on his clothes you will have seen because you were to
get retweeted. It did a tweet a couple of weeks
ago about the famous jumper that Spike War for the last future of
all, which also he wore in the man about the house movie.
Oh God. Test it.
Yeah. Is that still?
Is that still around? I haven't seen it but
unfortunately a lot stuff did go.
Yeah, you know, Sheila his wife probably wanted to keep it and
wear it I would imagine. Now you do when someone dies I
mean I bought a jumper recently was just like one of his old
jumpers I realize I've done it sort of somehow without
realizing. Yeah he had some iconic 70s
gear, exhibited suit, and tie down and caps.
You like to wear a cap to me. Yeah, there was a styles that I
think normally is to have the made by a guy.
Do I look like a black corduroy? There was a period in because of
obviously seen and heard a lot of interviews from Spike from
over the years and there was a period.
Instead, I want to say sort of mid 70s where he called everyone
dead. For a while.
That it was Daddy. Daddy.
Yeah. Daddy fce was the Jasmine was
going to Ronnie Scott's every night of the week and listening
to the world's finest musicians and having dinner there, and
then driving home. Probably on a bottom of matches.
Rosie daddy excruciating the embarrassing, but you really do
dancing and Shout. Yeah, Daddy in the middle of it.
Please. Stop it.
Make it stop. You know, cool dad but he was
Bloody cool actually. Yeah, what are you doing now,
Daddy, I'm a painter. Doing good.
Yes, it played out the waiting game, paid off and the waiting
game paid off. He was studying architecture, I
think but you weren't studying architecture.
You were studying. For either Captain for this.
Okay? Okay.
Daddy or sweat on their to tell us about yourself - very sweetly
moved? His office is working operation
back home. When Paddy died to be around for
me, Show. And so I'm sort of every day.
Pretty much she was upstairs writing.
We had enough room for him to do that, but you loved writing this
bedroom. You know, it's pretty quite
disciplined. Yeah.
Because I don't think, during the Goon show Heyday, he would,
he was very disciplined, from what I've read in terms of, he
would go into the office into a ALS and do a full day's work.
And sometimes get the last tube home and you know, there was no
sort of slacking know his dad and mom had a very strong work
ethic I think despite living in probably quite luxurious
scenarios out in India and that hmm.
Granddad. Grandpa Milligan was a writer, I
don't know what articles and articles about things.
He was a he was a discipline man and my grandma was very
efficient house. Life, you know, mother very
together woman. So yeah, yeah, he's certainly
learned his. I think you can't get anywhere
without really working very hard and he was not shy of that.
In, you know, we were all out working when we were 16, I
think, Not that he was making us.
It's just, he just instilled an ethic in you to just go and get
it go and get life go and get it.
It's amazing. You know, go out there and get
it. There's a couple of owners, get
a couple of quite specific questions.
If you don't mind which you may, you may not be able to answer to
be fair, but it just want to ask you just in case to your
knowledge did even talk much about Larry Stevens.
Not really to me, but the name I've heard in conversation, of
course, I know who Larry Stevens his butt.
Yeah, it's a tragic story, isn't it?
Yeah. And and it's kind of you kind of
get the feeling from what I've read, that Spike was, never
fully sort of reckoned, not reconciled with Larry, but I
think there was the kind of David fall at fall in and fall
out with each other and yeah, I just wondered whether because I
know Peter Sellers was very much moved and affected by Larry's,
death, premature death and just wonder whether spiked him and
sort of I'm sure I mean Spike had lost people close.
They were I don't know how close he was at the end of Larry's.
Like I don't know. Sure laughter.
Okay, this one. Do you remember him being on The
Muppet Show? Yes.
Yes, Spike. And the Muppet Show is filmed in
elstree. So it's quite near our home.
Don't know Morgan and it wasn't long after Patty had died and I
think he invited me and my best buddy at the time.
Lea to go for the day to elstree.
Great. Maybe you've done a few days but
I'd certainly went on the weekend and I met all the And I
stopped mind-blowing a mind-blowing time.
Well, so you're actually there to see it filmed.
Yes, I was that sounds like and there met, you know, I touch the
puppets, at one point, I put my arm inside Miss Piggy, which I
was told off because it's sacred territory.
You don't do that. You don't put your arm in the
pig. So, yeah, it's only 11:00.
It was real, I've got a photograph in the somewhere
actually. Yeah.
But me with Boise bear. Well.
Yeah, because he's because he's on that shit.
If you watch that show in recent years, I often dip into it
because it's quite a good way of showing people what he was like.
Very quickly, but he's, as like, he's on, he's on amphetamines or
something. He's even Spike, he's hundred
miles an hour, isn't it? It's fantastic.
He's so, it's really, I think, I'm grateful and it's funnier
than they are much food. Yeah, and I gather am I right in
saying that he kind of put himself forward for the Muppet
Show rather than he wasn't asked so much.
He he, he asked to be on that, right?
No, I've no idea too young to know about that quite likely.
Yeah, it's like wasn't if you wanted to do something to eat.
Ring up and say can I do it? Yeah, I thought if you went on
Before Peter or after pizza but they both did it.
Yeah. Peter I think of it I think
Spike was 79 sounds was 78. I think what about Spike sort of
cultural diet in terms of getting get it as we're getting
into the 80s. 90s, you know what was what did he did?
He go to the cinema much did he watch?
Did he like TV shows much today? I know we like flywheel shyster
and flywheel on the radio. What was what was he into?
What sort of things to under one very much?
We would go to Ronnie Scott's quite regularly and listen to
Jazz, right? And then he occasionally takes
to a classical concert went to quite a lot of classical music.
Okay, ballet, we went to the ballet, we went to the Opera,
went to the theater, right? It was a lot of culture going
on. Yeah, lot of museums.
We've got a lot of museums and he did like watching TV but it
was Massive. You know, just what we would sit
down as a family. Well, what was left?
You know, people have left home by then adults but me my dad, my
nana and my stepmom would watch Dallas right shreds and that
Miracle, you know, he was very good at doing commentary.
That was supremely. His theory is that it's with
induce hysteria in the room. Crying.
So television, that was kind of oh, Andy and I used to like, to
watch how the house of horror on Friday nights and Saturday
nights. I'd make these jellies and we'd
eat jelly, and watch our house. Are we love that?
And you'd also commentate a bit on that, which was funny from
from interviews. I've seen, including the, with
Jonathan Ross, he was pretty dismissive of of alternative,
comedy did Because you would have been the right age to have
been really interesting as all the other ones I want is very
much. I did observe, him being
extremely dismissive of anyone that used toilet humor and
sexual humor, as as funny because it was right in a way.
It didn't, you don't need to do that.
And I think, if you look at Eddie Izzard or Palmerton
toilet, him is not present. It's just way out there.
Seriously, sir, Ellen very funny, hmm.
It was just sort of snot and shagging and stuff that he was
disappointed. That it wasn't funny.
He said this isn't funny toilet. You it's not funny and I kind of
got it, you know. And it's a lot of cheesy Stuff
as well, wasn't there? And a lot of racist stuff really
bad, you know, doing Davidson really bad racism Spike?
Even though Spike has had a bit of a kicking, since this awoke
situations going on, he was racist and apart from him saying
what's I'm not racist. I hate everybody.
He was born in India, spoke fluent, Hindi and it felt like a
native Indian and didn't really wasn't thinking for him.
No, anyway, so yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Spike Spike and modern younger comedians, there were the odds,
the One that he loved, you know, is a guy called called Steve
Smith. If I got that right and American
way out Steve Smith, Oh not I think I know who you mean.
Quite a long face and cook talk quite slowly.
Yeah. Yeah.
What's it called? People like, it's been not might
know someone Steve, right? Steve, Steven Reich.
Stephen, right. I think that's it.
That thought he was fantastic. I love Groucho Marx, you know,
w.c. Fields.
He thought those people were hysterically for me.
That's albums. Comedy albums.
Jimmy Durante. This is this a sketch word
power. From Milligan preserved, which
is Spike talking to Valentine dial.
I think probably. Yeah.
And it's the one of the funniest sketches ever committed to vinyl
or anywhere any medium. I think it's really, really
funny. You know, the one.
I mean, I don't, I would sorry. The album, elegant preserved.
I dunno know. This ketchup can't say I can
pick it out, but I know the album.
Yeah, mr. Quirk yes, I believe you have a
very interesting Hobby. I believe I have to.
Yes, yes, studies. The pronunciation of words, I
learned out a perp renowned. Mmm.
What words do take most interested?
Oh, do you a large graph to the family size?
You know, I I've measured some with a little slider, first
one's about two and a quarter is the right size for debrett, you
know, they're sort of the epitome Home of
learning-centered must be Haiti's.
Yeah. Could you demonstrate one of
these words for us? Yeah.
Sure. Oh, bleep.
Rajid are 0 p+? I think that's an Irish one
side, the o,'? Yes, no budget.
What does it mean? Who would deny what?
I mean sir, I takes me home. A hard time to learn and
terroristic. Walk where do you use these
words? Most Stowaway indoors under
covers her to the demo and a thing.
I know. I know.
I never says, on Mondays a frost about, oh my god.
Well, I don't know. I don't like Taking Chances with
them. You see I mr.
Corrigan. When you that's it, that, that
is a superb album. I mean, it's a work of art
really got to listen to again because my mom singing on fun.
And that's right. Yes, she is course, I've
listened to that. There were times, I'm sure.
Listen to the guide man, as well Spike.
And she listened to it for that guy here.
The guy on the album. Was he who?
Yeah, he was pretty good. It's funny too.
She was really funny yet. She was much funnier than your
father. Did you did you?
And he have many major not, I don't mean arguments.
But did you did you disagree about lots of things?
Once we had one, Thing. Hmm.
And that was because I nearly overflowed the bath and I was
like 13. Hello got really cross because I
think Patti used to do it. She had died but I think she
used to do it. She's to forget the bath was
running. When do we lived in this house?
Had five laws and we were I was on the third floor so I'd come
downstairs. If the bloody bars running And
it nearly went over, it didn't go over but I think the reason
why he got cross he came running up, speaking up the stairs said
well pull your socks up. That was my telling off, I never
had any other tellings off. Wow it was an exasperated phone
call when I was skint and 23 and I got my own flat and think I'd
run up about 3,000 pounds. Worth of debt, right?
Buying tools, and trying to decorate, you know, and then the
show I was working on a closed. I think you got a bit
exasperated with me and said that rain, could you get it like
get a normal job and I had to say you're sitting, you are
saying that to me, you used to play the trumpet in a Cupboard,
Under the Stairs, practicing in the house in depth.
Look at for the whatever you telling me I should have known.
Shelby. It's very funny.
You know, could be a job laughing about that because you
knew it was impossible. Was that sort of rare glimpses
of him having to be an adult. Yeah, he yeah, he was good at
being an adult. He's very good at say, ran an
incredible home family, it did so well for everyone.
He, you know, he he was very good, a dolt, he tried so hard
to stay fit and well for us all, you know, and all the time he
was dealing with quite a sensitivity that was very hard
in this tough old world, you know.
So people often think he was the norm around everything and you
know, he was a crazy man. But mmm, Faith in people.
A lot of people say he was crazy, you know what mad crazy
living with your dad, you know, I think the Daily Mail did their
best Shane him just after he died by telling the story of
Spike trying to kill sellers with a potato.
Peeler, do you back? That was a potato peeler, you
know, come on people like to get this image of him as a Madman
blow in his difficult to deal with. %.
I look through his history as a creative and who he was up
against at the BBC and what he was up against.
And I look at the damage that he went through World War Two as a
young Soldier, being injured and losing people.
And all of that this man was not mad, he was just very bright,
very sensitive. And he was dealing with life
best he could. So the misconception that he was
not an interview, he suffered incredible damage in World War
Two, you read his War Diaries and you hear him talking about
it, you know, it was being shot at he was bleeding from the
backside at the time. He had horrendous piled and
yeah, really sick. If he'd been on duty for like
three days with no sleep, he was up a Mountainside in Italy.
He got blown up and being lost people and he ended up at that
delicate injured soul in a camp somewhere.
It was damaged poor damaged nowadays people get millions for
that. It's called PTSD and we entry
and thousands and hundreds of thousands of these young boys.
Very damaged and the area Spike hit the Limelight and he was
dealing with are assholes at the BBC bad stuff.
What, who, what is this? Go on show, and it was still
present and still ruining people's lives?
So know that misconception that he's nuts.
I like that chucked out because I think he's done some.
He's explored areas of imagination and given us
creativity like Van Gogh would give paintings to the world.
I think spikes comedy and poetry lit up.
This world could give him everything, but he's my dad.
So I would, absolutely, I would say four things that he's given
the world that I would cherish forever.
So there's there's To get a show off your sleep.
There's pakkun which I love there's is poetry There's the
bed sitting room. All right, the film of which I
think is sorely sorely underrated, really?
Yeah, I think that's fantastic. I've covered that on this
podcast as well. We've just had it turned into a
musical, John. Actually, this came to me just
after Norma died said, can we do something about this?
Wow, well I introduced him to a man called Julian.
Lippmann is great position. Yeah.
And they've got together and they hit it off and they Eleven
songs in like four days. Five days has on a joke John
introduces in his 80s. Now he is amazing.
You wouldn't think it catch it while you can.
My God was incredible. You know, it was damaged in his
50s and spike said, you got to go to AA man.
Daddy, and he saw himself out and he's been clean for 50
years. He said something like that,
right? He came to us and said, look,
I've got this piece of work and we do something with it.
We can we do coming and it all worked out and we'd like to put
it on. So that's alive and well.
The bed sitting room a version of it might appear some point.
Excellent. Yeah.
No. Is this a, it's great.
I'd love to have seen the bids at Erie one stage back in the
day. It's a reading of it.
Coming up in Lincolnshire, you know about.
Yes I do. Do you, do you know about the
steps video? No, go on time.
You know, the pop group steps. Yeah.
And in 2000 they, they had a TV special, and Spike was in it in
a gymnasium of all places God. And and it was all for us, it's
terrible. And just think why?
Spike? Because he, he was going to be
in the last Series was at the last or Christmas special, or
not was a comic relief special for one foot in the grave.
Oh wow. And and I think it just became
too ill. Well, Norma kind of pulled rank
towards the end and that was a bone of contention at times.
You know, she she she stopped a few things something that I
disagreed with but, you know that I guess it's very delicate.
When an artist gets to a certain age, she was very protective.
Let's Maybe Say that mmm, that that, that was a bad decision,
wasn't it? Where that?
And it wouldn't be here. He used to call himself a parcel
and the last term's. It 10 years of his life.
It's a, I'm just a parcel. I just get in a car and I get
came from here. I just didn't get it and then I
go back in the car and taken her home.
That's the parcel. I don't think it's very happy
about. Certain things?
No, no. But he was in gormenghast and
that, that, that was it. That was a good show to go out
on those it, I suppose. Yeah.
He nearly made it to Boku.
No. And she put the kibosh on that
because she didn't like the producers.
We will come and film green screen in the front room.
If we just get him to be God, In this order than the right.
Actually, I think it might have been the or author or going to
rate it should have been. They made it Richard
Attenborough in the end they did a film.
Let's look yes that's right with them with them.
Jim McDonald from Cory. Okay, other than that I don't
remember Jim McDonald from cousin me.
I thought he was. Why don't you play it?
Was he I don't remember probably right and maybe I wasn't in the
same with him from going to the actor's name even but sure he
was it and some really great people in that Sean Hughes was
at it. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Well Sean Hughes he left very
young. Yes sadly.
Very said it David David Kelley who I remember Remembers from
Robin's Nest. The one-armed dishwasher, yes,
some Legends in there. Milo, I'm Shay.
Hmm. But Jay doesn't take you.
Thank you so much for as I say, for taking the time to speak
with me today and you've obviously, you've been
performing yourself. Obviously you're an actress and
treading the boards. You've just recently finished
magic goes wrong. They're right.
Yes, I really had a great time with that company.
This Chief, they were wonderful people to work with and it was
quite scary coming out of the lockdown and getting back in the
road. Hustle over, you know.
Masking and covid England, testing, I didn't know that very
best to the creativity, but we got through it and I had a great
role. I had such a good time in a
wonderful company with a great producer and it was just
fabulous loved it. And that some Penn & Teller
involved with that. When they, they certainly were,
they were the magic. They were the magic and they
were in touch from afar, but they will certainly on board and
We had a lovely run in town, we did really well.
So I was blessed to do that. I feel like I don't really need
to do. It's got to be good to top that
for a while. Yeah, back on the road with with
my band, Red Box. Okay?
Yeah. Sort of 80 sensation, then if
you remember Red Box, remove the Black Box red box as you wrote a
song called Lena. Maybe it's just confusing
because it's the same title as yeses for Americans.
There are other hits so yeah it's kind of but they've since
then I've had had a great couple of great albums, three albums
actually but Simon Tolson Clark who heads, the band is Jack
tools from Clark son and Jack was Norma's husband.
But life partner. All right, so I went to Norma's
funeral, February, March, 2019. In Middlesboro, and I met so
many great people but I cemented a friendship with Simon that day
that led to me being in the background.
Don't just don't really weird coincidence.
We're going up to play a gig in Whitby, this summer.
Actually we're doing confess, tuples in Oxfordshire and
Poland. What are you there?
What are you? You can squeeze box.
What are you? No, no, I'm Cools and keyboards
piano. Oh, wow.
So I'm doing that, which is really a real treat and also I'm
doing something at the moment called the goblin Market, which
is by Julian, Littman's Goblin Market music and we're playing,
Glastonbury Festival, which I'm absolutely over the moon about
Julie, and Lippmann who I mentioned to you earlier that
bed sitting room, he's an all-around guy, he's in steeleye
Span at the moment, the boat back.
Well, yeah, and we've written the music for the goblin Market,
which obviously, is a poem by Christina Rossetti and it's set
to music and it's quite a spooky tale.
And I'm singing quite a bit in that Maddie dryer is also on the
album and we're doing Glastonbury.
Good. God.
And just hope the weather holds up here.
Well, that's always the thing that's always great.
Glastonbury, it's always just after the equinoxes and it's
more, you know, student I have been soaked glass, the movement,
On them steeleye span. You know, that there's a goon
connection to steeleye span go for it.
Peter Sellers sang on one of their songs.
New York girls back in the 70s. Would it be?
Why did he sing? I'm sorry.
No, he didn't say. What am I saying?
He was on the ukulele. Yeah, a woman shift and I
brother Oh, that were no use. it's very interesting how big a
firing dad you know it can be I say timing because you get
emotional and that always drains you yes because you know you
miss him I'm talking about me cause I'm saying, you know, I'm
missing so Just talking on Dolly and then you end the, you end
the interview anything. Why am I so tired and it's
emotional tired. Yeah I can imagine that.
That can guide the life of him is a wonderful thing.
He's an incredible guy Dumas and I pretend I don't because thanks
again to Jane. Thank you for listening.
Please rate and review on iTunes please cuz it does help the show
to become more visible and raise the profile and whatnot.
I will be back next week with another special guest and other
show nother topic, as always, and till then, take care of
yourselves. See you soon?
I