We must go out and dispose of those people from down Yonder
and Cross River who want to come in here and talk.
We must dispose of them, you understand, because we are the
individual means, and we must carry our glorious philosophy
through to its glorious culmination so that the end with
enterprise and determination, the world and everything in it
will belong to one individual, me, and that'll be the ultimate,
the absolute ultimate. So means after we kill the
interlopers, the talkers, the involvers who are on their way
here now, we shall then be free. Proceed with the most important
business of all, which is the killing of each other, until
there remains only the one individual, me, right, one, one
alone, alone. And let's get at it.
Each behind his own fence, each behind his own barricade.
Follow me, my friends, my loved ones, to the perfect society,
the civilization of I. So what was it being Christmas
Eve till I thought what What better way to mark the Cajun
than by talking about a heart warming Christmas film where
where people forget their cares, they come together and much
merriment ensues. Look, that's my Jingle Bells.
It reflects the whimsical nature of the film.
The the the bell I'm ringing. Very nice.
It is women's school. It No, it's not is it?
It's, it's, it's like being it's like a it's about as uplifting
as a weekend away with Philip Larkin.
Actually, it wouldn't be too bad.
Actually thinking about it. No, this week for Christmas
we're, we're, we're talking about a film which has Peter
Sellers in it and it's set at Christmas and it's very
interesting and there's plenty to say about it.
But as I say, it's it's a little bit heavy going, shall we say.
I enjoyed it more re watching it last night by myself.
OK, maybe because I didn't have to worry about anybody else's
reactions. Well, don't get me wrong, I
didn't. I didn't dislike it.
Oh, no, no. But it was kind of like cold
water right in the face, wasn't it, In some respects so.
Well, hang on. Before we before we go any
further, I should formally introduce you to the boys and
girls. You are a returning guest friend
of mine, someone who's who's been on a number of times, and
you're also something of A Christmas Carol obsessive, if
you don't mind me saying. Obsessive, but yes, there were
very few versions of A Christmas Carol.
I won't watch at least once. I even once watched something
called the Valentine's Carol. I really haven't returned much
of what happened in it. But I mean, one year.
One year I did watch 50 in in the in just the month of
December. I did try and do a podcast about
it and it was just exactly the wrong time in my life to be
doing anything. So that's stalled after about 6
or 7. We can call this an an official.
Maybe eventually I'll finish out the 12 and and just re release
them. Maybe next year we can call this
one of them. I think I, in fact, I did.
I, I was on it. I talked about the Muppet
Christmas Carol, which I hadn't seen.
Oh, right. Up to that point, you've
forgotten that. Yes, yeah.
I. Forget that entire year, but
let. Me formally introduce you.
It is tilt a riser. Hello, Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas, you are full of the joys.
But you do like Christmas, don't you?
You do enjoy Christmas. I do, yeah.
This, this was something that was being discussed the other
day between a number of us. It is one of the things I sort
of. Disagree majorly with Gary.
I Co presented from the sitcom club and Jaffa Cakes with Bruce
Hazel sort of Oh yeah, childhood.
It's, you know, there's nothing is there and it's like, no,
it's, it's a special little season set aside where the
special food and the special films and the special TV
programmes and you decorate. Your house?
How can that not like? Just.
Represent a break from the norm. How can that not be slightly
uplifting? Do you not find though the the
build up is better than the day itself in some respects or it
used to be? Well, that's fine.
That's fine. You enjoy the building, you
know, enjoying the journey. That's great.
Yeah. It's very much more the case
over here in the US where I live that it's over by like the late
afternoon, the 25th it seems, and famously like movie theatres
are open on Christmas Day. And they play games and sports,
sporting events and things like that take place, don't they?
Yeah, I think, I think a lot of newspapers will come out on
Christmas Day. Oh.
I ain't right that I ain't right, no.
You mentioned the podcast Sitcom Club and Jaffa Cakes with Proust
of course, which Which a periodic from being charitable
at the moment anyway. Annual.
Annual, if that. Yes, I'm I'm hoping we we still
haven't recorded our Christmas special.
Are you definitely doing? One, you've chosen it.
Yes, we have to. It's Yeah.
We can't. We can't not do that.
Sorry. I'm getting over a cold.
So if I sound like hell, it's because I feel like hell.
You're a professional, you work through it, don't you?
A professional. How much are you paying me?
Then where shall I send the invoice?
We'll talk about that later. It's Christmas, Come on.
OK. OK, so you and I have talked
about the film we're talking about today.
We've talked about this over the years.
For the for the longest time, it was forgotten about really,
wasn't it? In fact, I don't think it's even
mentioned once in the Roger Lewis, Peter Sellers book
because when that when that came out, it hadn't been seen for 30
years or more. And it's only in recent years
that it's resurfaced. And it's now as it showed
annually on TCM. Yeah.
And it's, it's Carol for Another Christmas, which is an
adaptation of. It's like a Cold War adaptation
of. Very much so, yes.
So it was the first of what was supposed to be series of 6 films
sponsored not in that sense, but sponsored by the UN.
So there were meant to be 6 films.
Effectively showing by the UN is good and necessary.
Yeah, this one was written by Rod Serling.
Yes, it was a big noise in American television at the time,
of course. Indeed, yes.
I mean, it's, he's now sort of kind of thought of as the
Twilight Zone man. But I mean, he had been a big
noise, as you say, in there's something that USTV historians
call the golden age of, of American television, which is
sort of like, say, say, 49 to 55.
And that's when everything's being invented and you're still
allowed to do intellectual things.
And so Rod Soling was coming up as part of this whole scene,
like Paddy Chayefsky, you know, that they were contemporaries.
They were talked of in the same breath.
And yes, he was seen as a legit, serious television writer.
I think one of his breakthrough pieces was called Patterns,
which was, you know, it's all about the corporate world and
got made into a movie. And as far as the Twilight Zone
goes, the the, the famous story is he was writing a drama that
was, and I can't remember the name is, I think it was Emmett
Till. It was kind of a parallel with
the case of Emmett Till. Emmett Till was the victim of a
lynching. He was accused of offending a
white woman and was murdered for it.
So serving had written a drama that was sort of parallel with
this. And then the the network got
involved and the sponsor got involved.
And by the end of it, it was the the victim was no longer African
American. He was like his Hispanic and he
didn't get killed. And they basically took
everything that could be seen as a parallel to this real life
case and pulled it out. And so in the end, you ended up
with something that was irrelevant really.
There's also the case of Judgement at Nuremberg, which,
and this sounds like a bad joke, I believe Judgement at Nuremberg
was sponsored by a gas company, which meant that there was a
certain aspect of the case that they were not in favour of being
mentioned at all. I'm with yes, Serling.
He couldn't deal with the things he wanted to deal with head on.
He'd hit the wall too many times.
And that so it was like, OK, let's turn it into allegory.
And that became a successful thing.
But it it means now that Serling's kind of thought of as
as more of a pop cultural figure, whereas coming up he was
seen as a high cultural figure. And there is a surviving
interview where the interviewer kind of asks him about the
Twilight Zone is like, are you, have you given up on serious
drama? Which?
I think serving sort of says it's not really an either or
case. There's some there's some
excellent half hours of television in the Twilight Zone
though that that are not trashy. There are, yes.
They're not. Yes.
They require, you know the grey matter to be working.
One of the great. Are we talking about The
Twilight Zone in terms of being great television in In his later
years, Rod Serling taught writing television drama
writing. And so because of course,
certainly like 50 years ago. So there, there's there are no
commentary tracks out there. But what you do have is there
were certain cases where he would show his Class A Twilight
Zone and then talk about it afterwards.
And they kind of act as a quasi commentary track.
What you get is some of these superb half hours of television
and then you go back and you listen to Serling tell you
about. Why it's some of the worst.
Garbage that was ever put on screen.
And Oh my God, he, he just sees all the flaws.
Heck, he just picks apart his old work.
The The thing is that he could write some superb television,
but sometimes he could just get kind of blinded by there's
there's a particular there's a twilight zone called the thing I
am the night colour be black. That's just it's it's angry, but
that's kind of almost all it is. And this suffers from the same
thing. It's didactic.
One of the things it really suffers from is to break it
down. And because the scene with
Sellers in is the best scene, not necessarily just because of
him, he's definitely contributing vector.
So let's let's get into the characters.
Our lead character is called Daniel Grudge.
He was going to be called Benjamin Grudge because that
would make his initial surname B Grudge.
Again, the network went, oh, but that's BG.
That's the same as Barry Goldwater.
People will think it's an attack on him.
Daniel Grudge. And, and Barry Goldwater at the
time was very critical of the UN as well, wasn't he?
So that would have been, yes. Well, a lot of people.
Were very critical of the UN, which is which is why the UN is
like trying to I suppose win people over with television.
Look television. So Dan Grudge played by Sterling
Hayden and his nephew who's called Fred OK and they
basically talk at each other. Grudge represents an
isolationist mindset and effectively how the rest of the
world's problems and on America's problems, and we
shouldn't get involved, but we should always say we've got a
bigger bomb than everybody else. So there.
So nephew Fred played by Benghazara.
So they hash it out. And then the Ghost of Christmas
passed similar talking points. There's just a lot of like,
here's Sterling Hayden, here's a person playing a ghost.
They're just going to talk at each other and hash out.
Whether the UN is a good thing or not.
Yeah, it it was unbelievably dialogue heavy.
And I'm not necessarily, that's not necessarily a problem for
me. Also, it's 84 minutes, yeah.
And I think that's too much time we do we do get to see actually
hang on a minute. He so the ghostly Christmas
past, They're they're on a ship which is sending bodies back
from wars from the First World War.
And they talk about isolationism versus being involved.
And then the ghost does actually take him to a part of his own
past, but he actually specifically mentions it's
September. September takes him back to
September 1945. And we have a scene set in
Hiroshima, which again, does not hold back on the horrors, the
things that, you know, the things that happen to bodies
when there's a thermonuclear explosion.
Well, you've got. You've got you've got school
kids who have lost their faces, although you don't see.
Effectively, yes. But but they have their faces
bandaged the. Thing is is that Grudge doesn't
seem all that different, but he is quite nice to a schoolboy
who's lost his sisters. But it doesn't seem there's no
like this. You know, this is the person you
used to be, used to be all for it.
It's not. It's like you were slightly.
Less hard line. Is his bitterness largely owing
to the fact that his son was killed in the Second World War?
Oh, yes, yeah. Then that that's that's an easy
thing to forget. So his son was called Mali.
There's some claims that Marley was played by Peter Fonda.
That's right. The IMDb says that Marley grudge
was played by Gordon Spencer. I think that we're seen shot
with him. But all we just, it's, it's
just, it's just reduced to he sees his reflection.
Then for a moment he sees him sitting at a dining table.
Because, you know, fine, OK, that's, that's Banquo's job.
But, you know, so talking about this as a specific parallel with
the original Christmas Carol story.
So the thing Scrooge's sin in the Original Christmas Carol is
not that he doesn't like Christmas.
It is that he seals himself up completely and believes that
other people's problems are not his problems.
He does not owe anybody anything.
Any problems anybody has, they brought upon themselves and it's
not his place to help. So it's not even that he's he's
rich and he does because he's not just like he's rich in a
world of poverty, he's rich and he doesn't use it for anything.
He just saves it up. He's a miser.
Specifically, he's a he's a financial miser, but he's also
an emotional miser. All that money and he he gets no
joy from it. Yeah, exactly.
And so that and, and in so in this, it's like, yes, this.
So Scrooge is a personal isolationist grudge is a
political isolationist, but it's the same sin that he's
committing. I have my stuff, they have their
stuff, and I'm not going to get involved.
I don't owe anybody anything. Yeah, he's he goes on about
staying on on our side of the fence and he he wants the he
wants the US arm to the teeth with with weaponry to send a
message. Stay out of our backyard and we
don't want to get involved with your battles.
Rest of the world. In fact, there's a bit where
he's talking to the ghost of Christmas past that he's they're
surrounded by these coffins with the dead from the First World
War. And he says something along the
lines of, and I wrote this down in my notes.
I can't remember the exact phrase, but he he refers to
people going to war as suckers. And I thought, that's very
Trumpian, isn't it? OK, how how long is that
everybody it was that we were heading for that I.
Don't want, I don't want to bring modern politics into it,
but. Take my green card off me time.
Made the world safer Democracy. Did they?
That's what they were told. They sure as hell gave it a try.
They changed their hats, they update the slogans, but it's the
same old shell game. Like clockwork, every 20 years
somebody rings a fire bell 10,000 miles away.
And how comes Uncle Sam's Expeditionary sucker brigade?
Is that what they are? Suckers?
Is that what your son's gonna be?
My son, my son, my son will be a victim, just as these men are
victims of somebody else's war. You kill me, Chief, You really
do. If it isn't Valley Forge or the
Boston Tea Party, you leave it strictly alone.
Your big gripe is, what? Because every 20 years American
boys got to climb on troop ships and head off someplace else?
It rubs your Rd. So what else is new?
60,000 Limeys die in Flanders. 100,000 Frogs catch it.
If we're done. The Germans marched through
Belgium and Austria declares war in Japan.
But who cares? It's a nice summer.
Yeah, Boston's going to win the World Series, so we'll rock on.
The front porch is what flies. Do I translate?
You're right, Chief. Better than American blood.
Infinitely better than American. Amen.
I grant you if it were possible, but it ain't possible.
So this is the only television show ever directed by Joseph
Mankiewicz. He'd been a leading film
director. A lot of stuff I've never seen a
lot but obviously heard of, like All About Eve.
He's in the strange position because he's trying to live down
Cleopatra because at this point Cleopatra is seen as a big bomb,
which eventually, because of the way, you know, releases worked
in those ways that a film could take sometimes years to work
its. Way around the US.
It's not the age of simultaneous releases.
So I think, yes, it made its money back, eventually became
seen as something of a classic. But he's coming straight out of
the shadow of this idea. But also if we if we hadn't had
Cleopatra, we probably wouldn't have had carry on Cleo.
That's true. So that's yeah, he should.
Are you saying he should have been just dining out on that?
I facilitated the The Immortality of a Frank Muir and
Denis Norden line. Absolutely.
He he he directed Sleuth, which I do love.
It's a great film. Yes.
Well, we recently, well, I'm not for for the sake of spoilers,
I'm going to say we recently watched a film in which it was
fairly obvious that a character had come back in heavy make up.
I'm not sure. I'm not sure I've ever seen any
of those kind of things ever work.
Which film was that? Remind me, which one was it?
The Man in Black. Of course it was with with Sid
James again. Back to Maggie.
Oh, yeah, he was. He was seized.
He was seized, wasn't he? And carry on.
Clear. Yeah.
Yeah, that's right. Of course.
You know Valentine, Dial Goon and Jason of.
Course, of course, of course. But Joseph Mankiewicz, So he
he'd done all these great films, like you say, Cleopatra kind of
tarnished his reputation for certainly for a while.
And I guess it was an opportunity for him to, to pick
up some work making this film. He'd also, he'd done, I believe
he'd done a version of A Christmas Carol in the 30s Till.
Have you seen that? I'm what?
I'm not what as director or writer or what not seeing it in
his directory. Directing filmography.
Oh. Right.
Well, maybe I've I've got deaf information there.
OK, don't worry. No.
He might, he might, he might have written one it.
Might have been in one. Maybe it just happened to him
once. He was visited by three spirits,
he said. He actually not that bad, but
we've got the booking now. So you want a balloon animal or
something? Yeah.
Well, moving on. So this this is this has got
Peter Sellers and it's his first performance after recovering
from a near fatal series of heart attacks earlier in the
year. So he films Peter Sellers films
his three or four days in October 64 and he had the heart
attack in April. And I think, but for that, he
would, I think his movie schedule would have, would have
certainly prevented his availability.
But the fact that he was obviously recovering, and he
was, I guess he saw this as a way to ease himself back into
acting. He doesn't look like somebody
who's recovering from a major health crisis.
No, he's right in there, isn't he?
He is. Yeah, of course, he'd worked
with Sterling Hayden on. Doctor Strangelove?
Dr. Strangelove? Yeah.
In which Sterling Hayden comes up with some talking points
fairly similar to those of the John Birch Society.
And the John Birch Society. So who?
Who were they to? They they still exist, you know.
All right. They were the kind.
They are the kind of organization who do not approve
of the UN. Of course, Bob Dylan famously
wrote a song mocking them and they did start a letter writing
campaign involving the sponsor. We, we when we were watching
this together, you sort of said what, what's, you know, what's
the situation with the sponsor? We thought, well, there is no
sponsor. Surely the UN is the sponsor.
But it was actually sponsored by Xerox.
So there was a letter writing campaign against Xerox and it
did kind of scare ABC, the network who was showing it and
it. So it did certainly spook some
of the people involved at a high level about whether they should
be doing this sort of thing. So that's as far as that goes.
So there weren't any adverts. Pedia is your friend.
There were no commercials which you with something like this you
you probably would have needed some trashy washing powder
commercials to lighten things up a bit in between the unrelenting
gloom. I am, I am fine with that.
It just doesn't need to be 84 minutes long.
And I think that's another place where Sterling gets unstuck is
because there are these dialogue heavy scenes that you not, not
to sound like a philistine, but there are dialogue heavy scenes
that just there's a lot of stuff that is just restating the
position. The ghost of Christmas presents.
No. In the story, Scrooge is taken
around the way people celebrate Christmas all across the
country. Yeah.
This is this is the point I sometimes make is that there's
even a bit where right at the end they're leaving Scrooge and
the ghosted Christmas present are leaving a 12th night party.
Which suggests to me, because you know, this whole thing of
all the ghosts did it all in one night.
Yeah, yeah. That's.
Right. Well, the the way a lot of
versions of A Christmas Carol are staged, it just looks like a
montage that he's taken through the video montages.
Assuming that this whole thing is happening in real time.
He's been away for two weeks. If he's gone through the 12 Days
of Christmas present. And you know, it's not, it's not
just like nephew, nephew Fred's party and the Cratchit's party.
He's taken to a lighthouse. He's taken to a ship at sea.
He's taken all over the place. And that's part of the point.
And we don't get that at all. We don't even get, I mean, OK,
we get. So.
I've. Tired out my my poor vocal
chords, Tyler, pick it. Pick this up.
Yeah, so when does he in the story, in the original novella
by Dickens, when does he see? What does he not see?
Marley's Ghost on Christmas Eve. Yes.
And and. And he is told he's not.
He's told this. This whole idea of the first
will come at one. The first will come at 2.
No, the first will come at 1:00, he's told.
The second will come at one the following night.
Right. And the third will come at.
So if he's not there for two weeks, he's it's, he's told it's
three nights. Because I think the whole idea
is, is that he experiences. So when he's experiencing
Christmas past, he's experiencing him, his son, a
morning and an afternoon and an evening, shall we say.
He's there. He's, as far as he's concerned,
he goes through a day, Christmas present.
He either goes through a day or he goes through 12 days.
But he doesn't just go go through a montage of what's
happening, OK? He shot himself.
So when he goes to the Cratch, it's it's what, the 27th or the
OR the 28th rather than Christmas Day?
So as far, yeah, as far as he's concerned, it's it's the 26th,
but he's been, I don't think he's questioning it.
OK, OK. So right, we've got Pet Hingle.
Who I didn't recognise, I didn't recognise.
I had to ask you guys who he was.
And he's from Batman, isn't he? He's.
Yeah, he's probably most famous. Him and Michael Goff are the
only ones that are in all four of the Burton, Schumacher,
Batman films. He plays Commissioner Gordon and
it's a, it's a very effective because so he sees the ghost of
Christmas present surrounded by plenty.
So he's sitting at the end of this long banquet table and he's
just stuffing his face. But again, it's a, it's a dark
take on it. And he sort of clicks his
fingers and then we see there's there's the barbed wire fence
and there's a camp for displaced persons.
And so he's eating all this while there are people starving.
And Grudge says, how can you do that?
And he's sort of, you know, and says, well, you know, you eat
plenty while there are people starving.
The only difference is is that you can't see them at the time,
but it's effectively the same thing.
Pat Hingle's Goes Goes to Christmas Present is even worse
than Edward Woodward's. At least Edward Woodward's does
show some merriment. Wasn't Edward Woodward?
Wasn't his? His the same where you had those
kids beneath his, beneath his. Yeah.
Well, I mean, that's in the. Yeah, yeah.
That's it's it's, it's interesting to see.
This is why I'm obsessed with Chris Carroll, because as I said
many years ago when we piloted Jaffa Kicks, it's full of
knobbly bits, it's full of decisions to be taken and it's
fascinating to see who takes what decision.
Where do they go with it, what you know, how do they treat it?
Because there's so much stuff that you can't do it in a normal
90 to two hour, 90 minute to two hour film.
So decisions must be taken. So yes, a lot of versions miss
out ignorance and want. But Edward Woodward goes to a
Christmas present, starts out quite merry, but he hates
Scrooge. Displaced persons today more
than 20 years. After a few of them still around
the barbed wire set. How can you eat like this when
you know that they're right there staring at you?
Why? Not.
Well, that takes a special breed to stuff himself in front of
Star. Get the point there?
Oh, boy. You really did.
Well, it takes a special breed indeed.
But you see, I don't happen to be a breed, Mr. Grudge.
I'm a ghost. I don't have a heart.
I don't have a soul. No nerve endings, no brain
center. I'm just a reflection.
But then, I've already told you that.
Shall I now tell you how many times you've stuffed yourself
while 2/3 of the world starved in a cage?
Yeah, throw him a bone. Don't you talk to me like that.
I have feelings. Nothing on this earth could
force me to eat while starving people watch.
Me watching makes all the difference.
What, you never saw them while tearing into your mashed
potatoes? They weren't actually there when
you buttered your bread. That idea where he shows those
displaced people and they're still singing a song that could
have gone back to Dickens gone back to here are people keeping
Christmas despite the privations, despite all of this.
It it's he could have shown different sort of horrific
quasi. It shone different places where
the UN is needed because, well, I've said that Scrooge and
grudge is sin. It's not that they don't like
Christmas enough. Dick himself is making the point
that Christmas is the ideal time to open up because as one of the
charitable women is is 1 want is most keenly felt.
There seems to be more need. It is the time to be more giving
this. This is the perfect time to get
your head out of the personal isolationism.
But no, no, I I don't like that scene.
With the message of this, if you didn't know this was a
promotional piece for the UNI. Guess the underlying message of
this film is isolationism and the and the disbanding of the UN
is going to mean inevitable war. That's yes.
And we say it's cold. I said it was like a Cold War
Christmas Carol, how Vietnam was just beginning really around
this time, wasn't it? It it was in its early stages.
Yes, I think at the time this would have been made, it hadn't
quite ramped up yet. It's come in the wake of JFK.
But missile crisis, I think there's a lot of that in there.
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Now I also when I when I started watching it, at first I wondered
whether Grudge had been an old Mccarthyite back in the day.
Well, at at the beginning, the reason Fred is coming is because
Grudge has he has some sort of tie with a seat of learning and
they've struck down a cultural exchange between a staff member
at the college and a a similar person in Poland.
So yes, there's that implication of paranoia.
And that's Fred said that the the exchange they're doing is
they're both students of 18th century poetry.
So yeah, this is this is, it's not the main thrust of his
problems, but yes, there's a certain element of Reds under
the bed. And the other thing we watched a
version which had a new or different opening titles,
whereas you said you watched it on HBO Max, was it last night
and and it was the original titles.
What was? What was the reason for the
change? It's something to do with the
involvement of Henry Mancini, OK?
Everybody who worked on this worked for scale, I think.
I don't know if that's a contributing factor.
Yeah, because Sellers was getting $350.00 a day for what,
3 days work? Four days work.
But again, you know, if if he hadn't had the heart attacks,
I'm sure he would have he he wouldn't have attached himself
to this project he may have done.
It just, it just says I'm using Wikipedia.
I'm sorry, everybody. That's all right.
Until December 2021, the print used by TCM did not contain
Mencini's theme. So it might well be because,
because this was shown once, there were bootleg copies
apparently circulating in the years after.
But yes, it might well be that oh, some 60 millimetre prints
were sold on the educational market so yeah, they might not
have the original materials to hand for for some time.
TCM have since restored the original theme.
I can't say it made a massive impact on me.
What bothered me more was that that the initial the print we
first watched had clearly been assembled sometime in the 90s or
something, because the the typeface didn't quite look
right. It looked like it'd been keyed
in rather than printed properly. And I care about these things.
So you should. So you should.
Detriment of all else. Apparently Serling was made to
get rid of a number of howls and dams from the script because it
was deemed. Inappropriate.
You preserved them all up for the end.
It was deemed inappropriate for for Christmas time.
Oh please. So yeah, I mean, you can depict
the aftermath of nuclear war. As long as nobody swears, that's
fine. Yeah, like, come on then, let's
get to it. Let's get to what?
A good bit. Well, let's talk about.
Let's talk about because this is, you know, This is why we're
talking about this film. Let's talk about Sellers and his
involvement before we start talking about his his role in
the film specifically. So this was his first time on a
on a set since Kissed Be Stupid. Now, it was actually filmed in
Michael Myersburg Studios on Long Island, New York.
And it's actually the same studios with Sellers had filmed
The World of Henry Orient there about a year earlier.
And apparently studio technicians he was.
He was such a fun guy on set during that film that studio
technicians hung up a big huge banner saying Welcome Home Hawk,
because Hawk had been seller's nickname on the set.
Apparently. Don't quite know why he Yeah, he
flew out on the 10th of October with with Britt.
Now, Britt's in the film as well, although she doesn't have
very much to do, does she? No.
As well, she's she's in the in the cast as, as a character's
mother. They should, they should have,
they should have cast Patrick Newell perhaps, but she's in it
and she's only in it because really, I guess because Sellers
insisted I'm, I'm assuming that's that's the reason.
And he said in an interview that he, he, he acknowledged the fact
that he'd been recuperating from these heart attacks.
And he said that he felt that in, in the light of present day
developments, we must continue to study subjects of the
greatest responsibility to mankind and we shall always
continue to do so. He said, I'm, I'm, I'm not yet
back in stride, but I'm continuing to put 1 foot after
the other. I'm sure everyone returning from
a serious illness feels this way.
But now that I'm back, I've learned that I'm having more fun
than ever and I need no artificial stimulus like
cigarettes. Is he giving up the ammo nitrate
as well? Because that's.
Yeah. Yeah, that's what put him in
this position. And he said he he plans to going
forward in his career, he plans to surround himself with gay,
smiling, happy people. And so he decided to make this
film. Now folks, the first Adam, on
today's agenda is this business. If the people from down Yonder
and the people from Cross River wanted to come in here and talk
about what they call our mutual problems, our common
differences, now they want to talk, talk, talk, talk, talk
about our problems. They want to debate, debate,
debate about solutions until somehow they get their problems
solved. They want to waste our time.
They want us to commit ourselves to that kind of surrender.
Whenever you see any reference to or any any sort of visual
reference to this film is always his character, isn't it?
Because it's. It's the picture.
I think it's the thumbnail on the HBO Max copy.
Yes, and his character is called the is called Imperial me who's
kind of a, is it like an Iron Rand type individualist?
I think he's even beyond that, isn't he?
It's just the idea of solipsism taken to its beyond its logical
conclusion. Yeah, yeah.
He's he's, he's, he's dressed in cowboy boots.
He's got a 2 gunned holster. He's he's he's wearing the the
top of a Santa suit trimmed with white fur.
He's got a 10 gallon hat cut to resemble a crown with jewels,
studying the points of the coronet and the word me Emmy
spelled out in sparky gold sequence.
So very, very striking looking outfit.
Before we get to that, Danielle Grudge has to talk to the Ghost
of Christmas Yet to come back and forth over the same points
because yes, I think actually he's even built his Ghost of
Christmas future, which is one of the things that gets he's
talking. It's like, no, I always think
it's kind of, you know, if, if you have to like give the Ghost
of Christmas yet to come dialogue, you've kind of failed.
Yeah, but it's Robert Shaw. You can't have Robert Shaw
saying nothing, can you? No, I'm going to say in this
it's it's like, no, we've we've had the talking.
I'm just wondering how Serling felt about writing this because
you almost feel that he's, even though it's still dark and
serious, he's almost a sense of him being at play.
And Sellers takes any humorous element gallows humour, but he
still he takes the humorous elements and runs with them the
the gestures he's making. He's he's got a tin can gavel,
hasn't he? Giant economy size, Yes.
He's got like a broom handle stuck through an old tin can,
and that's his gavel. That's it.
We get girls screaming at him. Beatles illusion there.
I do I do wonder if certainly it's being a bit foggyish about
The Beatles or just, or just thinking this, this looks
disturbing in a different context.
Grudge mentions that this is the town hall of the town he's in
because that's apparently necessary.
Again, one of the ideas that goes round and around is talking
is better than fighting. And so in this does that mention
about, you know, the people stop talking there, there's an
allusion to effectively the UN stopping existing.
There's also an interesting bit sort of alluding to because this
this is after an atomic nuclear war.
Christmas yet to come says somebody says something that
somebody thought somebody dropped some bombs.
And I don't know, that kind of reminded me of Doctor
Strangelove. It's slightly different that
somebody does, but it's that whole thing of it's not like
it's just, it's the paranoia that causes the war.
A bit like it was really paranoia that caused the First
World War. I'm.
Just you've got me thinking now, I'm just wondering if you strip
out the Christmas Carol element, the ghost element and all that,
could the seller sequence be potentially a a mini sequel to
Talk Strangelove? That's that's a thought, yes.
Because wasn't sellers was meant to play Major Kong Kong in the
in the in the hat, wasn't he? Yes.
Have you watched all of The
Prisoner? Yeah, with you, right, OK.
Do you remember much of the last episode?
Well, it's very odd and there's all you need is love there's.
A sequence that and I don't think I don't somebody out there
might know whether Patrick Mcgood might just have happened
to have been in front of a television in the US on the 28th
of December or whether indeed Calvin or the Christmas did get
any obviously showing. There is a segment where #6 by
this point, of course, he's no longer number six.
He's Sir is standing at a podium with a gavel and he slams the
gavel down to get silence. And he says, I feel this.
And then the people behind him. I'll go.
Aye, aye, aye. Slams the gavel.
Tries to talk again. Aye, aye, aye.
I I I I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. This becomes a whole thing.
I. I feel.
And it's fascinating watching
this. So is this on his podium?
He's got his gavel and everybody's going me, me, me,
me, me, me. I think it's just a coincidence.
Maybe it's just some of the ideas that are floating around
in the 60's, the concept of individualism gone too far or
individuality become individualism.
But yeah, this, this gets to be a proper dystopian.
You could almost like if, if there was just some way you
could just slice this off separately, you could turn this
into an out of the unknown. You've, we've watched some of
those, haven't we? Yeah, yeah.
Basically, the seller's character is advocating the
killing of everyone until all that remains is himself.
Yeah, or a self. Or a self, one individual, me
with a capital M Yeah, you said that.
This this reminded this sequence reminded you of Beneath the
Planet of the Apes when we watched it.
Oh yes, just spoilers for Beneath the Planet of the Apes,
but there's a whole sequence involving a bunch of people who
worship an unexploded nuclear bomb.
Right. And they sing strange little
it's the sort of thing a version of how old things bright and
beautiful. But it ends with the good bomb
made them all right. Serving was involved in the
original planet. The it's interesting the the the
ending of Planet of the apes the film.
Yeah, yeah. Is servings ending in a way, but
in a way it isn't serving. Used to complain that people
come up to him with ideas and say, you know, we can split it.
5050. So she always said having the
idea is not 50% of the work. But once someone came, a woman
who came up to her party and says, I've got a good idea, all
right. And it's like a bunch of guys
land on another planet and they do harm to each other, blah,
blah, blah. And then it turns out they
actually just crashed a few miles away.
And that is, and Sterling was like, basically, I write, OK,
I'm going to write you a cheque for that.
That's brilliant. And it becomes there's a
Twilight Zone where I don't know if they think they've landed on
an asteroid or something, but it's there's a Twilight zone
with that ending and certainly carries that ending with him
because he worked on some early versions of the script of Planet
of the Apes. OK.
You know, Rod certainly was only 54.
There's. Nothing wrong with that.
But it's it's you don't, you don't get that sense from those
Twilight Zone intras. Oh, I guess not standing on a
box maybe. There's one where it's the the
the whole thing starts in a bar and instead of walking on, it
just cuts to certain things, just like sitting down.
And he's 'cause he got a sig on the go.
It just looks like he's a butterfly there.
He's just like, what? All right, is this a story as
well? Oh, sorry.
OK. To the best of our knowledge, we
are all of humanity who remain alive, all that's left, and we
have survived the Holocaust. And if we are to go on
surviving, we must work together now.
We must talk together. And if other people want to join
us, if they want to talk with us, we we must listen to them
and we must respond to them. Charles, Who's his grudges?
Butler, or. Yes, indeed.
Manservant, I don't know what to call him really.
He doesn't have anything to do really at the beginning of the
film other than keep asking Grudge if he's OK because he
keeps hearing the Andrew sisters, which must have been
hell. Andrew sisters playing on the on
the on the record. Player We we.
It wasn't just you and me watching this.
Watch this with Andrew from History of Rocky Music in 500
songs. And I really annoyed him, which
was which was my goal because so there's this bit where he's
having right at the beginning, he's having this argument with
Fred about. And he said I've had enough of
the brotherhood of man. And I said I thought he was
listening to the Andrew sisters and got groan of agony at the
joke. So mission accomplished then.
I still don't get it. You're not.
You're pretending to be too young to have heard of the
brotherhood of Man, isn't that it?
But no Charles, the oldest of all of us.
Charles Charles comes back. Yes.
And again, I think this, this is Sterling.
I know that's what extent Sterling would have been aware
of the casting all this, but you're having the last rational
man on earth being African American is the kind of thing I
think Sterling would have specifically asked for because
he was an early booster for racial equity in in his work.
It doesn't go too well for Charles.
It doesn't does it and and in fact a a 10 year old boy shoots
him down. Yes, because the mother played
by Britt Eklund has this little boxing just like daddy's and
opens up. And yes, there's a loaded gun
and that kid must have fired it many times before because
otherwise 10 year old kid, you'd think the recoil would have
pushed him over Yonder across river.
You know when Salas enters by the way his character enters at
the beginning of this sequence and he's he's born by.
Beats as it sweeps, as it cleans.
Yeah, he's born by football players, isn't he, who are each
each shouldering parallel bars with a barrel in the centre and
a saddle across it. And apparently Sellers was
improvising he how to. So essentially this was meant to
be like his his steed, if you like.
And he was improvising with how to get them to start moving or
walking. And he tried all sorts of
different things, like shouting words and all, all the rest of
it. In the end he decided that he
would just kick the head of one of the football players in the
front. Yes, which is very sellers I
think. And the music's got that.
It's like a kazoo type thing. I don't know the name of the
original piece, but I know it as it beats, as it sweeps, as it
cleans. Because it was used for a carpet
cleaner advert. Yeah.
So the journey that grudge has been on, like, like you say, he
starts out bitter and he and he's isolationist, but he does
go on a kind of a journey in terms of his his world view,
shall we say. Well, he ends up enjoying
listening to Christmas carols and deciding to have his his
morning cup of coffee in the kitchen with the staff, Which I
thought was, you know, maybe not the happy ending.
No. Thinking Charles and I don't
know, Is that meant to be Mrs. Yeah, Ruby.
Yeah. I just got this image that
Charles looks at Ruby going. This is the only room in this
entire building where we can talk about what a thundering
pillar car boss is. And now he's taken that away
from us. Yeah.
Doesn't even give them the day off for Christmas Day.
He doesn't even ask him, you know, sit.
Down, you know, put yourself. You know, no, that'll be just he
has his coffee, OK? He does have a sort of a little
speech with Fred that indicates a change of heart.
I've been giving things some thought, some some second
thoughts. Oh.
Any conclusions? No.
Maybe an observation or two for instance.
For instance, the old one. But now by now that no man, as
the poet says, is an island. Seems the conclusion is
inevitable. There must be involvement.
Every man's death does diminish me.
It appears we've run out of the luxury of alternatives, Fred.
We find ourselves living in a world which we either greet the
morning or accept the night. So I wish you a Merry Christmas,
Fred, and a good morning. Merry Christmas, uncle.
I mean I'm I'm not fan of versions where Scrooge just
becomes a giggling idiot who bankrupts himself, like the
Albert Finney version where he just seems to buy everybody in
London everything they want. Well, Michael Caine.
Didn't Michael Caine get a bit giddy?
The Muppets won. Michael Caine made it
convincing. I mean, George C Scott plays
plays Reform Scrooge. Well, he he does, he does act a
bit giddy. But then afterwards, he sort of
plays reform Scrooge as a man who's had a weight lifted off
him. Yeah.
Yeah, but Grudge Grudge is just slightly less of an asshole.
Or asshole really isn't. He I think maybe it's because
the solution to that particular problem rests with the audience
as much as it does with the character.
It's like it's not just, it's not just one man, but for the UN
to work we need society as a whole to be in favour of talking
instead of fighting. Doesn't really come across
though, does it? No, it's kind of.
I wrote on my notes when we were watching it, right at the end.
I wrote United Nations Colon. Good question mark then
possibly. I mean, I think it's good, don't
get me wrong. It's just.
So we should have like taken a sip of coffee, broken the 4th
wall and gone United Nations. Good.
Maybe another big question mark could have zoomed out from the
middle of the screen. I'm just looking at other things
I, I made notes of that we haven't touched on.
I think. I think we've kind of touched on
most things I wanted. I mean Robert Shaw, though, I do
like Robert Shaw. I know you weren't happy with
the fact he had to speak or he did speak, but he was good
casting, I think, for that role. There was a little bit where he
kind of reminded me of Donald Pleasance, and then I thought, I
wish this was Donald Pleasance. Oh.
He'd have been good, wouldn't he?
Yeah. Yeah.
He he would have even been good as a silent one because he's got
that, you know those. Those eyes.
Can Donald Pleasance be silent, though?
He's just. I think I think he could do a
performance silent and still get something out of it.
I suppose so. You know those those weird
little round round eyes of his and a little smirk?
Except when he gets angry because the wine is caught.
Liquid filth. Columbo reference listeners.
There was a few nice lines. I like the fact that when he's
on the boat with Ghost of Christmas Past, Ghost of
Christmas Past says if you don't want to get involved, you've got
to give back the 20th century. I will give that the ghost of
Christmas Present does talk about the present effectively in
the terms of this is happening now, these people behind this
barbed way. It might look like something,
you know, immediately post Second World War.
It might look like some of the stuff that happened back in the
bad old days. It's happening now.
He does make that clear. Yeah, and off the cast.
Britt Eckland's still with us, of course, but she's not the
only one. Is she weighing it at at 101
years old? Oh.
Even Marie St. Yes, who?
Who's in the Hiroshima sequence with with?
What's his name with Grudge? And Jeb Chigato, we didn't
mention that he plays a doctor. Yeah, Now he was a, he was an
American Japanese actor, wasn't he?
But I from, from a little bit of research, he was.
He actually was, although he didn't speak Japanese, or at
least he had to learn Japanese when he went to Japan.
He was quite a big star in Japan but never really made it in
America, which surprises me. Yeah, I just, I guess it just
wasn't the I mean, I don't know what's his was his biggest role
in the US was that flower drum song, which can be seen as very
problematic. It's still bad.
He's totally, he's everybody who who's in it is fantastic.
Which is that? Sorry.
Flower Drum song. Flower Drum song.
Yeah, it's a Rodgers and Hammerstein musical.
It's about Chinese immigrants, but also people who are Chinese
Americans, who are, you know, both they are Chinese Americans.
And it's now seen as a bit retrograde.
Or is it a bit one of our dinosaurs is missing in?
No, there's, there's, there's only, there's only one case of
of yellow face in the film. That's Juanita Hall, of course,
was in South Pacific. Right, of course.
But no, in in your cast, you you've got Jim Shigata, You've
got Jack SU from Barney Miller. Absolutely.
Yeah. And he's he's hilarious in it.
Yeah. Yeah.
And Nancy Kwan. Oh go on, who's she?
Now that name rings a bell. What do I know who her from?
She, I don't know, again, famous, most famous film.
I I don't want to say the world of Susie Wong, but I've got a
feeling it's the world of Susie Wong.
She's a Hong Kong actress, OK. She's in a film called The Wild
Affair, which is notable for two things.
One, her parents are white and there's no reference near to it.
Right, OK. So OK and also Terry Thomas is
in it without his moustache. Good Lord.
Indeed, Yes, yeah, it's it's an alarming thing to see.
But again, I think Nancy Quinn suffered from the lack of meaty
roles for for Southeast Asian actresses at the time.
She didn't get to be in an episode of Hadley with Gerald
Harper, so Oh well, she said, you know, so she got to work for
Yorkshire Television like all the best people.
So this film, heart warming, uplifting as it is, of course it
goes out, doesn't it? Of course it goes out on on
Christmas Day 1964, doesn't it tilt?
28th, 28th, 28th, yeah. It could.
Could you imagine if it had gone out on Christmas Day?
I still think it would have been less of a downer than Royal
Flush. The Oracles and Horses, The
original edits of the On Fools and Horses Christmas special,
which ends with Del Boy breaking Rodney's hand.
Well, that'll do me, Rodney. Put it there.
Now what are you? What are you?
Hey, hey. But yeah, it's so it wasn't, it
wasn't shown again. So it was broadcast on the 28th
of December 64. It wasn't shown again 48 for 48
years, as I said before, and now it's become something of a
fixture on TCM. Yes.
Bit of a a cult favorite I suppose.
I hate to refer to it as that, but it's an interesting film.
It's interesting, yeah. It it is worth your time.
Just don't expect it to go well with the box of Quality St.
Now. And you know, a glass of bear
lease. One thing I forgot to mention,
it's not important, but I'll mention it.
Filming had to be shut down for a day after Sterling Hayden hit
his head on a tree branch. And he was apparently he was
using the the vernacular of the newspapers at the time.
He was romping with his children somewhere and he hit his head on
a tree branch and the mark it left on his head, they were
unable to successfully cover it with make up.
So they had to leave it for they had to close their production
for a day. I thought it was going to be
like you. You've heard of the show Ace of
Wands? I've heard of it, yes.
Yeah, they were once shooting with a snake and the snake did a
colossal dump and the smell was so bad I think we had to abandon
shooting for the day and open the scene every day.
Now, can I just say I wasn't expecting this, this show to end
on on the defecation habits of snakes.
It had never even occurred to me that snakes would do such a
thing. But obviously they must.
Do they? Didn't do it deliberately, no.
No, but what I mean is. I'm just confused to me that he
would do such a thing. He's Teddington of all places.
No respect. It's.
Just it's just something I never thought snakes would do, but I
guess like all living creatures, they've got to expel it somehow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Poor old.
What did Roy Holder have to say about it?
Wasn't Ian Ace I. Don't know if it was.
I don't know if it was. He was in.
He was in the third series. I don't know if it was Roy
Holder or Tony Selby. I can't remember which series it
was. There you go.
Is there anything you wanted to to to to talk about this or
mention about this film before we wrap up?
No. So we, I think I've done all of
it. And even if I haven't, I don't
think my vocal cords are going to hold out, no.
I can I can tell they are they are they are failing you.
So tell thank. Thank you so much.
And as you mentioned before, hopefully there will be a
festive sitcom club maybe out. Before Jeff cakes.
Or Jeff cakes maybe out before this is out.
You're not going to do another Christmas Carol, Jeff Cakes.
Maybe you go out on the 28th. It's it's possible.
I don't, I'm not. I wasn't thinking of it.
I did. I did the roll out through my
head and thought now let's do something a bit different.
But depends how desperate we get for content.
There's plenty of Christmas themed old telly out there.
I have a folder full of it to keep me going over the season.
OK, well listen, thank you all for listening and it is
available on YouTube. I believe Carol for another
Christmas I'd quite. In various yeah versions, I'd.
Quite like a Blu-ray of it. Yeah.
Well, listen, all I'm going to say is thanks for listening.
Have a wonderful Christmas, everybody.
I will be back next week with a New Year's Eve special, so watch
this space. Until then, have a very Merry
Christmas.