1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,320 One of the key things of those days, and much certainly amongst 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:11,280 this, what I would regarded then as an inner circle, was we were 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,680 sublimely confident of the importance of our work and we 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:23,520 regarded ourselves as as like Jacobean in in in importance. 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,880 If anyone at the BBC would dare to say you change this change, 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,200 that we would just tear off a strip at them. 7 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,440 Hello and welcome to Goombot, the podcast that keeps me busy 8 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,200 and off the streets. Thus, in its own way, providing 9 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,480 a public service. My name is Tyler Adams, and this 10 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,840 week I'm afraid to say I'm joined once again by the writer 11 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,080 Mike Haskins. Thank you, Tyler. 12 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,880 Hello, Thank you for having me back on your lovely podcast, 13 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,240 which I, which I love listening to every week. 14 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,120 It's great. Thank you for that. 15 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,160 So Mike, you've been busy. I mean, you've got. 16 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,240 Yeah. Are you going to ask me what 17 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,520 I've been up to? What have you been up to? 18 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,200 Very little. Well it's it's Griff is on tour, 19 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,280 so I don't know when this is going going out, but he's on 20 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,520 tour in. He's been on tour in April and 21 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,680 he's still in tour in on tour in May. 22 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,480 Check local press for details. So I've been help helping him a 23 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,200 little bit with that. It's not this. 24 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:55,800 Is this is Griff, Griff, Rhys Jones. 25 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,240 Griff Rhys Jones, Yes, prick, is what? 26 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:00,280 Do you? What do you? 27 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:01,840 What's your title script associate? 28 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,080 Well, no. You know how how Spike said 29 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:10,360 about Larry the best, But in fact, no, I'm not even the best 30 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,600 paid typist in the business. I'm the worst paid type anyway. 31 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,800 And now, and now guess what? He comes on and this is in his 32 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,160 show. He comes on and does this 33 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,400 routine about AI and whatever and how hilarious this is. 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,600 And he reads it out a bit of, you know, he gets an AI kind of, 35 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,040 you know, ChatGPT actually supporter of that listeners, I 36 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,400 have to do this for him. I have to do ChatGPT, and he 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,960 does this sort of routine, that ChatGPT has written for him, for 38 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,120 the place he's in that day. And he makes fun of it and 39 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,520 everything, right. So he does all this about how AI 40 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,280 is rubbish and everything, and then he's actually replaced me 41 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,880 with AI because I used to go along. 42 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,080 This is literally true. I used to go along and type up 43 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,640 everything that he said and then, you know, like in the 44 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:58,560 show, because if you've got a audio file of it, then it's just 45 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,400 sort of difficult. But then I would write it all up 46 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,000 and present it to him and do sort of, you know, bullet points 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,160 and, you know, this joke you did here and blah blah blah. 48 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,480 And do you know, kind of a long version and a shorter version of 49 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,840 the show and everything. Anyway, he's found an AI program 50 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,400 which which does a transcript automatically, which is 51 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,640 absolutely brilliant. So anyway, I'm I'm sure there'll 52 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,240 be other bits and I generally help him. 53 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,040 It's not a big thing I'm not doing, you know, he he can do it 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,120 all himself, obviously. He's brilliant and he's got all 55 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,280 these stories, he's really good, but he likes a little bit of, 56 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,880 you know, encouragement shall we say, and a few extra jokes here 57 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,000 and there. So I I do that and I've been 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,440 doing my Beatles, Liverpool talks. 59 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,640 They go down very well. As I was telling you before we 60 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,760 started Grifted, his first night in Guildford, he was only 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,200 playing a tiny place because it was the first night of his tour. 62 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,880 It was a try out, but I was very pleased to be able to tell him 63 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,680 that day. I had played to a bigger 64 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,240 audience at Heswell Hall that day myself, doing my Beatles 65 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,200 Liverpool talk. However, the last laugh was on 66 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,160 me actually, because I went on too long and usually, you know, 67 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,600 it's it's, it's quite good doing these Beatles talks because they 68 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,040 quite enjoy it, these people, and then they all come and buy 69 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,720 your book afterwards. So it's great. 70 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,000 But however, I went on a bit too long, so do you know what that 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,079 meant? It's all these people made a 72 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:20,920 dash for the door at the end because they were all in the pay 73 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,640 and display car park and they needed to. 74 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,080 I only only sold about four books. 75 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,440 It was tragic, terrible. So I won't let that happen 76 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,960 again. Yeah, OK. 77 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,680 I've got this image in my mind. You know when you talk about you 78 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:36,920 and Griff. Yes. 79 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,280 And this is going to, this is going to be really insulting and 80 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,000 I apologize in advance, but do you ever, do you remember that? 81 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,160 Do you remember Alexis? Sales stuff? 82 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:49,280 Yeah, with Stephen Lewis. Yeah, with Bobby Chariot the 83 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,720 failed. Not that Griff's a failed comic, 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,400 I hasten to add, but Bobby Chariot's this kind of yeah, 85 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,200 third, third, third ranked comedian. 86 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,960 And Stephen Lewis, AKA Blakey from On The Buses is his script. 87 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,840 It's very much, very much the way I feel, yeah. 88 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,160 However, Stephen Lewis wrote that film, didn't he? 89 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,480 With Barbara Windsor Sparrows. Can't Sing. 90 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,520 Sparrows Can't Sing. Isn't that Stephen Lewis? 91 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,800 I think you might be right. So he's a fine writer. 92 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,080 Blakey from On the Buses. So he was in with the What's the 93 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,720 name of that woman in the Littlewood? 94 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,520 Joan Littlewood. Yeah, Yeah, all those people. 95 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,680 Harry H Corbett in it is in it as well, doesn't he? 96 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,800 So and. And and George and Mildred. 97 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:33,680 Every. Yeah. 98 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,760 Yes, they were all in that, Yeah. 99 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,840 Uther and Brian, I mean. Yeah. 100 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,200 So what are we talking about today? 101 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:44,040 I think we're talking about other left wing leaning comedy 102 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,200 collectives, aren't we? Speaking of Joan Littlewood. 103 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,520 Well, that a a lovely segue. OK, well, let let me begin by 104 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,520 just reading There's a There's a from November 1954. 105 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,400 An advert appeared in the the newspaper. 106 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,920 I'm not sure which newspaper. No. 107 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,480 Possibly the Evening Standard, I'm not sure, but it says the 108 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,760 employment agency license we Terrence Alan Milligan, known as 109 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,800 Spike Milligan, Raymond Percy Galton, known as Ray Galton. 110 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,680 Percy is a surprise there, isn't it? 111 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,840 Yeah, yes. I wasn't expecting the Percy 112 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,800 Eric Sykes and Alan Francis Simpson intend to apply to the 113 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,680 London County Council for a license to carry on an 114 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,400 employment agency for all persons in the entertainment 115 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,400 industry, including cinema artists at 1:30 Uxbridge Road, 116 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,720 London, W 12 such agency to be known as Associated London 117 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,520 Scripts. When do you say that appeared? 118 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,600 When? When did that appeared? 119 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,160 Like, apparently, according to my notes, November 1954. 120 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,800 That's interesting because. Well, anyway, yes, because I 121 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,320 thought they didn't actually come up with the name until 122 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,560 Beryl joined them. Although we are already getting 123 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,120 ahead of ourselves. But yeah, let's just park that 124 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,160 for a moment. So yes, there they are, November 125 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,480 1954. Yeah. 126 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,640 So Associated London Scripts and yeah, so yes 4 extraordinary 127 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,720 writers all come together to form what Spike said was going 128 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,120 to be a writers cooperative. Didn't he A writers commune do 129 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,480 you think he was a writers commune? 130 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,200 A writers cooperative? It was How would you define a 131 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,400 writers cooperative do you think, Tyler, if you had to put 132 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,560 it into words, what would you say? 133 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,000 What would you how would you define a Co-op? 134 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,240 Everyone's on an equal footing. Everyone's paying in the same or 135 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,720 taking out the same as that well and sharing everything. 136 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,600 I'll tell you. I'll tell you how I define a 137 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,520 cooperative. I promise you, I haven't looked 138 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,880 this up or anything, but I would probably define a cooperative as 139 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,240 a business or other organization which is owned and run jointly 140 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,360 by its members who share the profits or benefits and who then 141 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,120 give out Co-op dividend stamps. So it's pretty much the same as 142 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,200 you said actually. But yeah, it starts off as spike 143 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,320 says this but that is not the way it turns out. 144 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:04,280 But let let's talk through it. Yeah, they start at 13 O 145 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,640 Uxbridge Road, which is a greengrocers in Shepherd's Bush. 146 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,120 Is this why Steptoe and Son are set in Shepherd's Bush? 147 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,600 Very possibly. Galton and Simpson were writing 148 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,400 it there. Were there some toilets on 149 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,840 Shepherd's Bush Green where Buffy Bramble got caught? 150 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,600 Isn't that Isn't that a true story? 151 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,400 He got nabbed by the roses Because he did. 152 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,400 Yeah, he was up to no good. Yeah, very possibly. 153 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,840 Just put in the names of the places where you live and it's 154 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,520 always funny, isn't it? But well. 155 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,679 Let me just let me just say, because in case there's anyone 156 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,360 listening, you are unaware and I'm sure that nobody listens to 157 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,799 this podcast is unaware of Associated London Scripts. 158 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:43,600 But like you say, it was a well, let's call it a writer's 159 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,240 collective. Yeah, set. 160 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:51,040 Set up by by Spike and Eric with with Ray Galton and Alan Simpson 161 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,120 and Frankie Howard was there. Frankie Howard as well Frankie 162 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:59,200 Howard and and his his manager Scruffy Dale Stanley Dale. 163 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,440 Scruffy Dale, who Spike did not like at all. 164 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,600 No. What did he say about Scruffy 165 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,080 Dale? He he apparently lost a testicle 166 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,960 during the war while in the RAF and and Spike? 167 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,440 Spike observed that he hoped he'd dropped it over. 168 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,120 Trusted well. How many people did because that 169 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,720 that happened to Frank Muir as well, didn't it? 170 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,400 Genuinely. Yeah, I didn't know that. 171 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,200 Frank Muir lost a testicle in the So there's a very funny 172 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,120 story in his in his autobiography, which I recommend 173 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:33,960 highly to anyone. You must have read it. 174 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,360 Tyler, tell me you've read it. Yes, it's it's a really great 175 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,040 book. It's lovely. 176 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:43,240 But yeah, I think it was from drinking unpasteurized milk or 177 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,120 something. Is that what happens to you if 178 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,480 you drink unpasteurized milk? Anyway, so he'd lost this 179 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,920 testicle in the war. Standing too close to a a 180 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,240 Spitfire propeller. Well, yeah, drinking is. 181 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,200 Maybe that's when he was drinking the milk. 182 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,400 But then a few years later he's at a party or something And he 183 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,000 was making some woman laugh, you know, and she was laughing, you 184 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,280 know, uproariously at Frank being funny. 185 00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:11,080 And in the end, she's always, stop it, Frank, you're 186 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,200 diabolical. And he said, no, actually, 187 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,280 Madam, I am mono, bolical. Brilliant, isn't it? 188 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,760 Maybe had that one saved up waiting for the day. 189 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,680 But he's very good. Frankly, I I read him very, very 190 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:27,200 highly. Just one of the great British 191 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,680 comedy writers with Dennis Norden. 192 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:34,160 Before you any of this goons nonsense and everything, it was 193 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,960 Muir and Norton that Galton and Simpson really looked up to and 194 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,000 and I think Spike should have probably did as well. 195 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,840 But you know and obviously they wrote what's it? 196 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:52,360 Well as well as as well as Take it from here they the division 197 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,240 from which of course we get the classic sellers sketch Balaam 198 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,520 Gateway to the South which is about all that survives of of of 199 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,040 that series. Yeah. 200 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,120 Anyway back to the subject. So we're talking about 201 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,920 associated London script. So yeah, they they start off as 202 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,600 you know, Spike saying it's going to be a writers 203 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,400 cooperative and whatever writers commune, but it becomes a 204 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,360 management agency. And I suppose the point is that 205 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,600 back at this time, so we're talking about the early mid 50s, 206 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,520 you know, this whole kind of ecosystem that we have now, 207 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,920 which I have never managed to break into properly with agents 208 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,200 and whatever writers getting contracts and things that didn't 209 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,000 really exist. Well, certainly not for comedy 210 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,720 writers. So, yeah, So Spike and Eric come 211 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,320 up with this thing. But the predecessor, Speaking 212 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,640 of, you know, Frank and Dennis, Frank Muir and Dennis Orden was 213 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,840 the thing called Ted Kavner associates, right. 214 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,880 And Ted Kavner was, of course, the writer of ITMA. 215 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,720 Yeah. And also he's a very decent man. 216 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,760 Where was he from? Tyler, Do you know? 217 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,320 I'm guessing he was from my part of the world. 218 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,000 He was. He was from New Zealand and he'd 219 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,080 come in. I think he might have been a 220 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,000 doctor or something. There's no there's no guarantee 221 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,240 of quality. But anyway, yeah, but no Frank. 222 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,760 Frank Muir started up. He Ted Kavala founded this 223 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:25,080 founded this Kavala Associates in 1945 and Frank Muir sent in 224 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,120 material to him. And so Ted Kavala got him to 225 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,400 write some material for a he's frank Muir said for a 226 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,520 clarinetist who wanted to become a comedian. 227 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,120 But then the clarinetist changed his mind and but Ted paid Frank 228 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,840 Muir the 20 lbs. Anyway 20 lbs. 229 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,840 In those days, he's devout Catholic as well Ted Catholic. 230 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,640 I had a football club with that sort of money, couldn't he? 231 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:52,280 So it was Ted, Ted Kavner from it who paired up Frank Meal with 232 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,480 Dennis Norden. So he actually put them together 233 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,680 as writers because they, I don't think they really knew each 234 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:59,280 other before that. And the other thing I should say 235 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,920 about all this, listeners, is that I did a program about 236 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,680 Associated London scripts 20 years ago on Radio 4. 237 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,440 And it was very interesting to do because I got to meet all 238 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,520 these amazing people like Galton and Simpson and John Entrebus, 239 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,400 So we spoke to. So that was all absolutely 240 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,920 brilliant. But I I actually had an agent 241 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,280 myself at the time and after I'd done this program, I said to 242 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:26,720 him, you know, we should do a book on this. 243 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,800 We could do a book on Associated London scripts and he did 244 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,680 precisely nothing. And then just a few months 245 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:37,640 later, Graham McCann, who writes lots of wonderful books about 246 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,200 comedy, and he's very, very good. 247 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,240 But he nipped in there and he did the book about associated 248 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,000 London scripts. So that was quite frustrating. 249 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,240 But I'm sure he did a much better job than I would have 250 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,760 done. But anyway not. 251 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,760 At all. Not at all the the book The book 252 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,240 is is Spike and code which I spike and code in my hand. 253 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,520 Yes, that's right. So we recommend it. 254 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,720 We recommend it, but if only I'd got to do mine. 255 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,960 But anyway, I suppose Associated London Scripts. 256 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,640 Really it starts with Sykes. I keep trying to make this 257 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,240 playing, but Frank would never have it. 258 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,640 He discovered me. I was a a jobbing repertory 259 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,680 actor, of which there were thousands. 260 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,280 He was the biggest thing in the country, and he think maybe of 261 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,360 all of them, you know, he's the one whose star has maybe waned 262 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,520 slightly and people know slightly less about him. 263 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,840 But in the late 40s, early 50s, I mean, he was just the biggest, 264 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,320 best comedy writer in Britain. And then he became a massive 265 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,080 figure on TV in the 60s and 70s. But I looked him up on 266 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,320 Wikipedia. Wikipedia says Sykes first came 267 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,520 to prominence through his many radio credits as a writer and 268 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,800 actor in the 1950s, most notably through his collaboration on the 269 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,760 Goon Show Scripts. Did you write this, Tyler? 270 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,320 Did you put this on Wikipedia? No. 271 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,560 No, but I I dispute that he's most famous for. 272 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,240 Yeah, this is absolute. This is absolute nonsense. 273 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,520 Yeah, he did do some goon chow scripts, but he was a huge 274 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,960 figure before that. So when they start you. 275 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,880 Know I sorry, sorry to interrupt there because I I read something 276 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,280 in preparation for this last week camera report. 277 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,080 It was, I think it was like a newspaper report from around the 278 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,000 time, from around the mid 50s, where it it essentially said 279 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,400 that Sykes was better knowing the Milligan. 280 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,000 Around that time, yeah, I think that's that's probably right. 281 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,880 Arguably the best established and best regarded of the four 282 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,560 who started Associated London scripts. 283 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,880 I mean Spike was sort of pretty well established, wasn't it? 284 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,600 Because so Associated London scripts, if it starts really 285 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,240 they they all start about September 1954. 286 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,600 That's when the four of them, Sykes, Milligan, Galton and 287 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,280 Simpson, they all get together and you know we're now a thing 288 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,240 and then they place your advert you said in November 54, so. 289 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,240 So when they. Started to put it in context, 290 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,080 September 54 was was just about the beginning of the fifth 291 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,720 series of the Goon Show, which is is what we what we could, 292 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,120 what we now know to be sort of the beginning of The Goon Show 293 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,280 as we know it. And that's what I think is 294 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,640 interesting that it's exactly at that time, you know that because 295 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,680 also it's the time when Milligan has just fallen out with Larry 296 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,360 in the previous series and Larry's just gone off and isn't 297 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,200 really involved now. So I think you know. 298 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,800 And now he's moved. It's like Spike has left Larry 299 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,520 for another woman. He's moved in with Eric Sykes in 300 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,840 the greengrocers because Eric Sykes had these offices above 301 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,560 this greengrocer, right? But there's a nice little story 302 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,160 in Graham McCann's book about Sykes, just to show how 303 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,960 important he was. And he says the BBC pulled some 304 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,400 strings with the GPO to make sure that Sykes was one of the 305 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,200 first civilians in London after the war to get a private 306 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,160 telephone. That is how important he was 307 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,040 because, you know, the BBC needed to get hold of him in a 308 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,119 hurry. And so Sykes is is some years 309 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,359 younger than Milligan, isn't he? He's five years younger, born in 310 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,000 Oldham. His mum dies while giving birth 311 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,119 to him, although Wikipedia says she dies 3 weeks later. 312 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,760 So his long birth then in the war at. 313 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,400 Least it was there and not three weeks before 3 weeks. 314 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,880 Before Oh dear. And he was in the sorry sorry 315 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,160 listeners. He was in the review during the 316 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,000 war called 3 Bags. Full bags of what was not 317 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,080 specified. So also in that show with Dennis 318 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,600 Norton and Bill Fraser. So you know, this is interesting 319 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,400 that they're all together in a thing during the war. 320 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,200 Bill Fraser, do do people know who Bill Fraser is now? 321 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,920 He's somewhere, so. Somewhere. 322 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,640 Bootsy and Snudge. Bootsy and Snudge, he was. 323 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,480 So he was in the Army game because originally Bootsy and 324 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,760 Snudge were two characters in the Army game, weren't they? 325 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,400 And I guess Bill Fraser was the officer guy. 326 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,760 And then the Army game, created and written by Sid Collin, of 327 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,720 course from Cavanners, the crate Sid Collin. 328 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,520 And also written by Larry Stevens, Maurice Wiltshire. 329 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,880 Yeah, that's right. And and a lot of these 330 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,600 associated London, London scripts people that we will come 331 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,040 on to John Entrebus and and so on. 332 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,240 So yeah, very important. And the other thing I was 333 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,640 thinking about this because the Army game that starts in in 1958 334 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,360 and then a year later you get the Navy Lark, it's just never 335 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,160 occurred to me before, you know, the Navy Lark is a rip off of 336 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,640 the Army game, isn't it? It's like the same title, but 337 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,240 the Navy Lark still lives forever because it's on Radio 4 338 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,880 extra every week. Whereas the Army game is ancient 339 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,600 history because it was on ITV and it's never been or no one's 340 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,400 seen it since, you know, whatever, 1961 or something. 341 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,800 Is that was there a? Was there a RAF version of like 342 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:55,120 a RAF? Welling Do you know what the was 343 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,560 wasn't there was there was get some in that was some while 344 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,920 later in the 1970s with with Robert Lindsay. 345 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,880 Robert Lindsay into Tony Selby. Yes, that is right and I 346 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,120 remember watching this at the time. 347 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:14,400 It had quite a rude joke in it, which was along the lines of, I 348 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,880 have not seen this in when was get some in on about 50 years 349 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,240 ago or something, getting on 50 years ago. 350 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,800 So there's something about, you know, Robert Lindsay's character 351 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,560 tells the Tony Selby character is that he's going to see a girl 352 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,920 tonight and say Oh yeah, what do you want to do that for? 353 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:36,120 And Tony Selby is has got like a Biro in his hand and Robert 354 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,680 Lindsay takes the pen and points it upwards as his answer. 355 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,360 That was the most disgusting thing I'd ever seen on 356 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,440 television. Right, he was. 357 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,480 He was going to go around to do some scribbling. 358 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:49,320 That's right. Yes. 359 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:51,200 Yes, That's obviously what he was. 360 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,200 Yeah. So, yes, Dennis Ordon, Bill 361 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,400 Fraser and Eric Sykes. And yes, so Bill Fraser was the 362 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,640 concert party officer. So then Bill Fraser went on to 363 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,320 marry somebody from another famous military sitcom. 364 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,440 Do you know who it was? Pamela Kendell Pamela Comes is 365 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,120 Fox misses Fox from Dad's Army. So Bill Fraser was married to 366 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,120 her. But the interesting thing is 367 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:22,320 that he didn't get married until 1981, so he was 73 and she was 368 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,480 61. What they've been doing the 369 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,640 previous? You know, were they living over 370 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,040 the brush or? Whatever they called, I don't 371 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,320 know, I do do not know, but I just thought that was 372 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,360 interesting detail. But I think it was the possibly 373 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,560 the first marriage in each case as well. 374 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,080 May as well try it now. Anyway, a very a very handsome 375 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,680 couple. Yeah, definitely, definitely. 376 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:50,000 Anyway, so yeah, so the story you see, all Eric Sykes is 377 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,600 stories. I don't believe any of them. 378 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:59,000 They just don't ring quite true. But Eric Sykes's story is that 379 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,680 after the war, he Sykes was trying to make it in showbiz or 380 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,560 something, and he's living in terrible conditions in London. 381 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,680 And Bill Fraser, who'd been more sort of maybe officer class in 382 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,440 the war and been in this concert party thing with him, came along 383 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,080 and found him and took great pity on him, you know, slight, 384 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,720 starving in his Garret in the winter of 1947, the winter of 385 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,600 the, you know, the terrible snows and everything. 386 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,440 And Sykes says that Fraser employed him as a writer for the 387 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,160 next few weeks and paid him 5 lbs. 388 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,280 A week. And he never had to write a 389 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,560 thing. Sykes never had to write 390 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,480 anything for him. He was just being nice and 391 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,480 helping him out. Yeah, I don't believe it. 392 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:38,600 Probably. Probably. 393 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,640 Maybe he was. Maybe he was. 394 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,400 Maybe what was Bill Fraser doing there to make money at this 395 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,760 time? But no, the next thing is that 396 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,320 Sykes becomes Frankie Howard's writer. 397 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,800 This is why Sykes was the biggest writer at the time, 398 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,040 because Frankie Howard was this huge, hugely successful 399 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,080 comedian. But in keeping with this theme 400 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,640 of, you know, there was no kind of proper ecosystem for all 401 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,400 these writers and everything. He couldn't find a decent writer 402 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,120 and he was Frankie Howard at the time. 403 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,280 So in 1947 he was the resident compare on Variety Bandbox and 404 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,920 one week it would be him. And who was it The other week? 405 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Tyler, a name familiar to Goon Pod fans. 406 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,560 The other week it was Derek Roy. Why do we know? 407 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,240 Why do we know Derek Roy? Because Spike Spoke spoke so 408 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,800 highly of him. Spike once described Derek Roy 409 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,120 as about as funny as a baby with cancer. 410 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,920 That's right. That's one of those spike lines 411 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,920 that I do not like so much. No. 412 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,320 No, it's sort of off, isn't it? Spike. 413 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,840 Spike wrote for him in the early days. 414 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,080 That's right. Yes. 415 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,520 And so it's funny, isn't it? So Eric starts off as Frankie 416 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,600 Howard's writer and Spike starts off as Derek Roy's writer. 417 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,560 But Derek Roy, I mean, so obviously, you know, Frankie 418 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,920 sort of carried on for years, didn't he? 419 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,280 Although it did also always seem like his career was dying off. 420 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,480 Because that's he. Had he? 421 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,080 Had he had renaissances? Such a word, Renaissances. 422 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,240 Because I don't know. That is the thing, you know, 423 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,200 that Galton and Simpson told me when I went to speak to them for 424 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,600 my Associated London Scripts program. 425 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,200 But when Hancock gave them the old heave ho in 1961, he got rid 426 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,120 of Galton Simpson as writers. And so they went to the BBC and 427 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,520 whoever it was there, Tom Sloan or whoever the guy was that they 428 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,040 went to, I said OK, what do you want to do now if you're not 429 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,800 right of Hancock anymore? And they said we want to do 430 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,280 something for Frankie Howard. This is 1961 and the BBC 431 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,640 official told them, no, he's finished. 432 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,520 Frankie Howard. No, he's had it. 433 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,000 Forget him. And of course, no, he just kept 434 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,400 coming back. But Derek Roy, I suppose it's 435 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,240 like, you know, this could have happened to Frankie and Derek 436 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,680 Roy. Derek Roy is a footnote in, 437 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,120 yeah, British comedy. Not even that. 438 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,200 Don't note of a footnote maybe. Derek Roy was not invited to 439 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,120 join ALS. Frankie Howard can't find a 440 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:15,880 writer, but he remembers. Back in the war I saw this 441 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,440 review with it must have been with Bill Fraser and Dennis 442 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,160 Norden and Eric. Eric Sykes. 443 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,640 And Eric Sykes used to go on stage under the name Rick Allen 444 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,000 in those days. So Frankie thought, oh, that 445 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,720 Rick Allen guy. And he was very good. 446 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,480 So he seeks Sykes out and he finds him and he employs him as 447 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,200 his writer and his another detail in Eric Sykes's. 448 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,680 I think this is all from Eric Sykes autobiography. 449 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,880 I do not believe any of it. Maybe it's true, maybe it's just 450 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,880 me being cynical. But Sykes says the ACT that 451 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,440 Frankie Howard had seen him doing during the war, he hadn't 452 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,560 written this at all. He just nicked it off, you know, 453 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,320 routines off, you know, American forces network or something. 454 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,880 Some American comedians, he just cobbled this routine together. 455 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,920 But Frankie employs him as a writer and it's, it turns out, 456 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,880 quite quite fortunate because, you know, Eric Sykes then turns 457 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,960 out to be he hadn't written this actor in the war. 458 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,600 But then he turns out to be this brilliant comedy writer. 459 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,920 And of course, the first thing he does for him is this routine 460 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,000 about the elephants. I went along to depot and I saw 461 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:23,760 the form and I said, look, I said I've got these, I was, I 462 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,240 was signed for these goods. They're saying he's a good. 463 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,480 He said they're labeled them. Ready. 464 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,960 Get them out of here quick. So I started with them and said 465 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,160 I went along. They were labeled them ready. 466 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,040 All right. Two elephants. 467 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,480 Two elephants. I was not. 468 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,480 I said yeah, I said I shall never get these to crew. 469 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,720 I said I shall never get these to crew, he said. 470 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,800 I don't care where you get them to, but get them out of here. 471 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,760 He said the place has been enough for enough for the place 472 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:09,720 has been. So I got a bit of string and I 473 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,760 try it down the next to see and I let him out into the street or 474 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,520 I didn't know. I didn't feel a mini. 475 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:25,720 I tried to look as I wasn't with them anyway, but the no. 476 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,760 But the way people scared, the way people stared. 477 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,320 You think they've never seen two elephants going down the 478 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,960 underground before. So Sykes is writing variety 479 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,880 bandbox. Frankie Coward moves on from 480 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,080 there, but Sykes is still his writer. 481 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,120 But then Sykes starts doing an even, you know, the most popular 482 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,680 show on radio from 1950. And what was that called? 483 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,080 Educating Archie. He was educating Archie. 484 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,080 And who did he write it with? Sid Collin, Our friend Sid 485 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,760 Collin. He was a Django Reinhardt style 486 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,160 guitar player. Did you know that Sid Colin? 487 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,760 He'd been in Sid Millward and the Nitwits Before the War of. 488 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,240 Course he was of. Course he was, yeah. 489 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,920 Anyway, so yeah, so Sykes starts doing that. 490 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,280 So he'd got the link with Peter Brough and, you know, Educating 491 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,280 Archie. That was from variety band box. 492 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,800 Yeah, the people they had on Educating Archie is the start of 493 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,560 with Max Bygraves and Julie Andrews, Benny Hill, Harry 494 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,160 Secum, Dick Emery, James Robertson, Justice, they all 495 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,360 first crop up on educating artists is incredible. 496 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,240 Is Beryl Reed that drove Eric Sykes off educating Archie 497 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,720 because she wanted more jokes. So that was the entry Eric, he 498 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,600 gave up writing it, but also Educating Archie had its own 499 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,800 regular harmonica player. Did you know that? 500 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,120 I didn't know that. Do you not know who it was it? 501 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,640 Wasn't Max. He wasn't Max. 502 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,360 He was Ronald Chesney and Ronald Wolfson. 503 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,440 Yeah. So Ronald Wolf was also in the 504 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,160 cast. So educator Archie, you know, 505 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,680 thanks to that, we got on the buses. 506 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,400 And Speaking of Blakey. Thanks for that. 507 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,720 Background to Blakey and of course Meet the Wife as featured 508 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,360 in Good Morning, Good Morning. Good morning. 509 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,760 Good morning. Anyway, I now turn to Andre 510 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,120 Vincent's Mislaid Comedy Heroes website for this next little bit 511 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,400 of the story. Because after the first series 512 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,200 of edgy, This is why this is important to our story. 513 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,040 After the end of the first series of educating Archie, 514 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,880 Sykes began to complain of ear pain and general hearing 515 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,600 problems. So that's the very end of 1950. 516 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,520 And Peter Brough, who's the Ventriloquist? 517 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:44,840 The The Ventriloquist Whose Lips Move, told Sykes to Actually, I 518 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,600 suppose Sykes would still be able to lip read, wouldn't he, 519 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:47,920 with Peter Brough, even when he went deaf. 520 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,880 But Peter Brough told him to go and see a doctor. 521 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,560 But Sykes ignored this advice because he had a pressing 522 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,840 theatre commitment in Swansea that night. 523 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,680 This is all from Andre Vincent's excellent website. 524 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,960 While packing for the trip, he Sykes was interrupted by a knock 525 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,280 at the door and Bruff chauffeur had arrived to take Sykes 526 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,080 straight round to Harley Street to be checked up. 527 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,760 And in fact, he had an infected mastoid. 528 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,880 So he says if it hadn't been for Peter Brough's action, he would 529 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,240 have been dead within three days. 530 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,360 What? Yeah, how about that? 531 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,520 Hang on, hang on, sorry. So in effect it's. 532 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,840 What did you say, mastoid? Mastoid. 533 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Yeah. Is that Is that in the ear? 534 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,680 Then it's. Something to do with the ear and 535 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,120 This is why he went deaf. How can an How can an ear 536 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,040 infection kill you? I don't know if he got into the 537 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,000 brain or something, I suppose. I don't know anyway. 538 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,480 Yeah. So Peter for Pete, if it wasn't 539 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,720 for Peter Brough, we wouldn't have Associated London Scripts. 540 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,240 Well, that's right, Eric Sykes. You know, he would have been and 541 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,320 gone. And and British comedy, The 542 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,720 future British comedy. Because obviously the the 543 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,600 echoes, the the tremors, if you like, of Associated London 544 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,160 scripts we can still feel today. Yeah, you say that Bruff, Peter 545 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,640 Bruff helped make British comedy what it is and what it became. 546 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,640 Absolutely do. Do not say a bad word against 547 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:09,760 that, man. Yeah. 548 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,240 It's just nothing. Little detail, which I this must 549 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,440 be off Andre Vincent's website as well, it says following them, 550 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,720 Sorry. Following the manufacturer of a 551 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,600 new head for Archie, the show Educating Archie took a 552 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,960 sabbatical between February and May 1953 to give Rough some time 553 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,440 to adjust to the dummy's working tongue. 554 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,440 Honestly. Honestly. 555 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,240 Right. What are you? 556 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,080 What are you? What are you up to? 557 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,360 At the moment, Bruff, I'm just trying to adapt to Archie's new 558 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,600 tongue. Anyway, the reason all this is 559 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,800 important Eric Eric Sykes in his ear surgery is because it is 560 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,000 just after that Eric starts at 13 O Uxbridge Road the above the 561 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,920 greengrocers. So it it's just after his first 562 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,560 year operation and it's in February 1951 that Sykes and 563 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,080 Frankie Howard buy the lease on these offices right? 564 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,720 And they do this at the behest of their agent Scruffy Dale, 565 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,800 this man, Stanley Dale. So they all set up a company or 566 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,000 in fact they set up several companies. 567 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,400 They set up Frankie Howard Limited, Frankie Howard Scripps 568 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,040 Limited and Eric Sykes Limited. So he seems quite on the ball 569 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,320 business wise. Scruffy Dale. 570 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,200 Yes, So Milligan comes into this Grey Grocers thing with all the 571 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,720 offices, all the empty offices, and only Sykes is there. 572 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,880 So, so, Milligan suggests, oh, we'll have a writers commune. 573 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,360 This is where we we get to the point where they they agree that 574 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,240 they're going to set, set up this, yeah, this, like you say 575 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,480 this, this commune, this collective. 576 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,160 And originally they wanted to call it, I believe, Associated 577 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,120 British Scripts. That's right. 578 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,880 But they weren't allowed, so they settled on London and and 579 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,920 associated calling it Associated London scripts meant it would 580 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,040 be. It would turn up early on in the 581 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,880 phone book as well. It was in Spike's mind that it 582 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,000 should have been a workers, a workers cooperative. 583 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,680 I don't think it was anybody else's mind. 584 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,000 I just think the rest of the guys were just saying, well, 585 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,840 we'll all bang in 10% and just sort of make the office work. 586 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,800 There's nothing in the in the interview I did with John 587 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,760 Entrevest, where he it's the first thing I asked him why did 588 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680 why did they they they start this thing and he says those 589 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,960 because they're all very lonely. There probably is something in 590 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,800 that. Yeah, it's. 591 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,040 Well, I know that things weren't great in the Milligan marriage. 592 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,840 No. And and he, I think he the 593 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,280 implication was that he would look for excuses to be out of 594 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,360 the house. So he didn't like writing at 595 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,520 home. Yeah, around this time when? 596 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,240 Well, it's a little bit earlier, isn't it, when he tries to kill 597 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,800 Peter Sellers with the potato knife. 598 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,400 Well, yeah. That's two. 599 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,160 That's Series 3. Series three, yeah. 600 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,160 He was going to pee all Peter Sellers to death. 601 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,000 Missus Sellers would come home and find the horrifying sight of 602 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,960 a long, long strip of Peter Sellers all curled up around the 603 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,600 hallway. Anyway. 604 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,320 Yeah, so, so, so really I mean it all sort of points to you 605 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,760 know with Michael Bentine going and then that incident with 606 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:31,880 Peter Sellers and then Larry you know and Spike is in the the the 607 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,680 hospital in Muswell Hill isn't he And Larry keeps the show 608 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,440 going, doesn't he and keeps Spike's name in the credit which 609 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,200 credits which is very good. Jimmy Jimmy Grafton as well. 610 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:42,720 Jimmy Grafton Yeah, that's right. 611 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:43,400 Yeah. Yeah. 612 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,840 Yeah, which. Which is interesting that, OK, I 613 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,440 know that Jimmy Grafton more or less became an agent, yeah, 614 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,200 didn't he? But he he Yeah, he was never 615 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,240 involved or asked to be involved with ALS. 616 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,840 No, that's true, isn't it? I mean, I do wonder, maybe. 617 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,240 Maybe we've talked about this before when I've been on, but 618 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,240 what was Spike's feelings about Jimmy Grafton? 619 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:13,239 Obviously Harry stayed with him. There's that story that John 620 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,440 Cleese told about Jimmy Grafton and Harry Secombe. 621 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,639 Do you remember that? That was John Cleese working 622 00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:22,080 with Harry Secombe somewhere and he saw, or I don't know, he's 623 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,560 just interesting with Harry Secombe. 624 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,800 And Jimmy Grafton came and presented him with the script 625 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,120 and Harry didn't think it was terribly funny and Jimmy just 626 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,239 wouldn't do anything with it. I'll just leave that up to you. 627 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,560 You can, you'll sort that out. Weren't you and John Cleese 628 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,159 didn't think this was very impressive. 629 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,520 You know that because Jimmy Grafton, as well as being 630 00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,639 Harry's agent, was his writer. So that just sort of kept him in 631 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,000 business for years writing the Harry Secombe show on the on the 632 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,000 telly. Anyway, so yeah, so Spike and 633 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,600 Larry have sort of split up. So Larry stays in the office, 634 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,640 presumably with Kavner's in Chefsbury Ave. because I think 635 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,400 they were both at Kavner's, both Spike and Larry, because Spike 636 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,360 leaves. I've got a note somewhere that 637 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,640 Spike leaves Kavner's around this time in 1954 and he starts 638 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,440 working at the greengrocers where Eric Sykes has an office. 639 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,440 So. Let's talk about, let's talk 640 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,560 about how Ray and Alan, yes, get involved. 641 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,560 Yeah, because let's talk about Ray and Anna. 642 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,240 So as you know, they, they've been in the TB Sanatorium. 643 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,160 They were too young for World War Two. 644 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,720 They were too young for World War One as well by an even 645 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,360 greater margin. So they join Associated London 646 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,960 Scripts on the 1st of September 1954. 647 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,000 So I suppose they're invited in. So it's not just Eric and Spike 648 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,120 sitting there. Suddenly they've got a whole 649 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,080 proper thing and there's you know the importance is 650 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,480 previously I think they've just been sitting at home at Alan 651 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,480 Simpson's mum's house writing their scripts. 652 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:03,040 So they are just what, 24 and 26 this time I think Ray and Allen 653 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,800 so very young and September 1954. 654 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,560 So that is when Series 5, The Goon Show kicks off and you've 655 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,440 got whistling, spining, Marin, dreaded, better, better pudding, 656 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,240 hurler and. Phantom. 657 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,840 Phantom Head Shaver. That's right. 658 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,640 Yes. So Hancock's Half Hour, which 659 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,840 Galton Simpson famously writes, hadn't even started. 660 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,320 It starts in November, I think that year. 661 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,240 So it's it. Well, it it airs the same night 662 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,760 as The Goon Show episode The Canal. 663 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:34,800 Right. Which I think from memory was 664 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,600 the last episode of series five that Spike wrote on his own 665 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,200 before Eric. Oh, OK. 666 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:41,120 Yeah. Joined up. 667 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,840 Right, Yeah. So they they come in, they'd 668 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,880 only just managed to get their hands on the telephone. 669 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,440 Galton and Simpson, you know, it's all very well, very excites 670 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,120 getting his phones with the BBC. So they join up. 671 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,080 Yeah. So they've been in this TV 672 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,120 sanatorium. They started writing scripts 673 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,080 there because they did a sort of little, you know, hospital radio 674 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,640 sort of thing there to amuse the other other patients. 675 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,240 That was the thing with when we did these interviews with Ray 676 00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:12,480 Galton and Alan Simpson, which which was, you know, that was 677 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,920 such a thrill to go and meet Ray Allen. 678 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,280 And they were, they were absolutely, yeah, Ray had the 679 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,440 loveliest house that you've ever seen. 680 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,920 And I think it was over near Hampton Court. 681 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,840 It may have been Hampton Court actually but there's lovely fire 682 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,840 in the great. This is like in the on a 683 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,080 winter's day and lovely and cosy and it is Christmas tree and 684 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,560 everything and fire in the great and it's just beautiful house. 685 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,520 And he was saying he'd been in this TB sanatorium. 686 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,400 So when when did we speak to him? 687 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,240 So it was about, yeah, 2420 years ago he'd been in this TB 688 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,640 sanatorium. So what would that be 56 years 689 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:57,400 earlier And great holes in his lungs they say, you know he he 690 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,880 was given like 8 weeks or something to live. 691 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:01,440 You know really something like that. 692 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,280 You know you are going to die if we don't sort the there was no 693 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,760 kind of, you know the what's hadn't come in yet the 694 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,560 antibiotics or something to clear this up. 695 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,440 Penicillin. Penicillin. 696 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,160 Yeah. Whatever. 697 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,840 So. So he's telling this us this, 698 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,560 you know, he's just been given weeks or you know a few months 699 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,880 to live or something whilst rolling himself a a cigarette in 700 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:30,280 2004. I mean you say, oh this is the 701 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,280 best. I anyway, he had a great long 702 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,800 life and more power to him. So yeah, so they've been writing 703 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,360 on all these sort of things. Frankie Howard, they've written 704 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,040 for Derek Roy I think. Yeah, because they did. 705 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,400 Happy go lucky, didn't they? Isn't that right? 706 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,400 So which was the one that Spike wrote for with Derek Roy? 707 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,800 Hip, hip. Hip Who? 708 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,680 Roy My. Goodness, yeah. 709 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:59,520 So I think the titles show you. Yeah, yeah. 710 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,720 So they write for this thing. Happy, go, Lucky. 711 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,080 I think some people was it like Monkhouse and Goodwin, who was 712 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:11,120 writing it before them. And yeah, and it was all a bit 713 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,440 of a disaster this series, there's lots of rows going on, 714 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,040 but they got some material into one episode of this. 715 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,720 And the producer was Roy Spear. And then he must have had 716 00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:22,400 enough. So he went. 717 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,760 So Dennis Mayne Wilson came in towards the end of the series. 718 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:30,000 Happy go, Lucky with Derek Roy. And so Dennis Mayne Wilson 719 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,360 invited Ray. Dennis Mayne Wilson is 720 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,920 responsible for a lot, isn't he? Climbing? 721 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,720 So he asked Ray and Alan to come in and write the last three 722 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:40,200 shows in this, you know, disaster of a series. 723 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,120 So they bought a typewriter with their first paycheck. 724 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,800 Also in that also in that show I think was Tony Hancock, Bill 725 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,560 Graham Stark and Peter Butterworth. 726 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,120 So they wrote a sketch for Tony Hancock called The Eager 727 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,000 Beavers. I think this was all in the same 728 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,040 series and Hancock was very impressed with, you know, the 729 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,240 sketch they'd written for him. And so, so that's how that all 730 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:06,560 that started. So yeah, OK, so we've got the 731 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,040 the main 4-5, if you want to conclude Frankie, I suppose. 732 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,800 Frankie obviously wasn't a writer, but no. 733 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,680 But then you've got the have you got what? 734 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,840 What would you call it? The 2nd wave that come in like 735 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,360 Johnny Spate. The other thing just before we 736 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,640 go on to that, I was just going to say the basis on which they 737 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,280 do this because we talk about it being a writers cooperative. 738 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,080 But in fact what they do is they all put in their ten percent, 739 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,800 10% of their earnings into the business and some, some sources 740 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,640 say they put in 90% and then took 10% as their wages. 741 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,640 How would that work? So it's not a right, it's not a 742 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,280 cooperative because they don't put in all their money and then 743 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,120 they just share it all between, you know, between them because 744 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,480 the issue it there with this 10% is what comes up with sellers 745 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,240 when they try and get sellers to join. 746 00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:02,240 So he nearly joins, but he won't come in because his agent says 747 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,440 his 10% will be more than everyone else's 10%. 748 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,960 I see. Yeah. 749 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:13,240 So Sellers said he would join Associated London Scripts if 750 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,440 everyone else put in 5000 lbs. So you know, not just 10% you've 751 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,000 got to pay. Maybe that is Sellers 10%, I 752 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,880 don't know. Over time, could it be he's on 753 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,840 50,000 a year or something? He wouldn't have been, surely. 754 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,880 Not in 19, in the mid 50s, no. But that's what he I don't know. 755 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,440 You see, where did I get this from? 756 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,320 I don't know if this is from Graham Mcken's book as well. 757 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,080 But anyway, so they said he'd join if everyone else put in 758 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,920 5000 lbs. But Galton Simpson obviously 759 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,200 can't afford to do that. So this, I mean this. 760 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:49,960 This is true. Whatever the figures, exactly 761 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,080 where I you know, maybe it'll turn out that it wasn't quite 762 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,560 there, but Galton Simpson weren't earning as much as any 763 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,760 of the others. Milligan sticks up for Galton 764 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,440 and Simpson and says, you know they can't. 765 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520 You know these lands can't afford to pay the same as 766 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,600 sellers and it's unfair to maybe he was talking about himself. 767 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,800 I wanted it's unfair to make me pay £5000. 768 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,920 That would make sense with, you know, his troubles with the 769 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,240 first missus Milligan that her spending habits, wouldn't it? 770 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,520 We. Used to have writers conferences 771 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,320 when we moved to High Street, Ken. 772 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,480 And this was to where we would all get together in a democratic 773 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,480 fashion because the the directors, they paid their 10% 774 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,760 as well as well as the clients, but they didn't pay any rent for 775 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,080 their offices. And we did. 776 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,520 And Johnny's bait brought this up. 777 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:46,600 And Spike Milligan just left, had slammed the door and we 778 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,680 never saw him at a writers conference again And and he said 779 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,600 that, well, that's the end of a cooperative as far as I'm 780 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,040 concerned. You'd have nothing more to do 781 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,480 with it. So, yes, they they, they they 782 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,000 bring in these other writers. So the next two through the door 783 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,400 are John Entropist. Well, Johnny Spate first, and I 784 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,240 think Johnny Spate had been he'd been doing some work for Frankie 785 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:10,040 Howard or something, haven't he? So Frankie Howard was always on 786 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,160 the look for more material. Yeah, Johnny Spate's an 787 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,440 interesting guy. I don't know. 788 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,640 I've heard him interviewed a few times and obviously I know his 789 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,080 work, but he's, he's an interesting one. 790 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,760 And John, John Entrebus in the because he used because 791 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,640 listeners. Mike sent me the unedited 792 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,840 recording that he made when he interviewed John Entrebus all 793 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,480 those years ago which is very interesting. 794 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,240 And at one point he meant he described John Antropus 795 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:40,280 describes Johnny Spate as a Stalinist. 796 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,840 Yeah, probably was. And I and Stalin. 797 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,080 Had just died, Eddie. It was 1954. 798 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,760 Was that 53, right? So again, the death of Stalin. 799 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,080 It all fits in. But obviously, I know, I know 800 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,000 that Elf garner is not based on Spate's own views. 801 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,680 Of course, No, quite the opposite, but it's I've just got 802 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,160 this image in my head of of Johnny Spate because because 803 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,200 again, John Entrance mentions that he he often would go to the 804 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,480 pub with Eric Sykes. Eric Sykes was no Stalinist. 805 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,080 No, no. Well, that's what he says, that 806 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,400 that Eric was the the token Tory in the associated London script. 807 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,760 And what? Spike was just an anarchist or 808 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,600 something. Ray and Allen would be more 809 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,000 lefty, and Johnny Spate was somewhere far to the left of 810 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,320 them. And why does he? 811 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,880 Because he was in, he was. Well, I'll say he was 812 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,760 interviewed. He, he met Ray and Allen to 813 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,960 discuss coming on board or joining ALS. 814 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,200 What? What was the reason he thought 815 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,720 they were gay? Oh, no, that's, yeah. 816 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,840 I think because, you know, they were, they were finely dressed. 817 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,920 Ray was a bit of a dandy. Ray particularly was a bit of a 818 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,400 dandy. And I don't know, Johnny Spate 819 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,680 sort of just he was very suspicious of everybody working 820 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,640 in show business because he thought they were all gay. 821 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:01,880 He wasn't. He wasn't like you say, though 822 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,600 he was impressed when Ray told him how much his suit cost. 823 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,920 Right, yes, and. And he looked forward. 824 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,520 Spate looked forward to the day when he could buy one equally as 825 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,880 nice and reassuringly expensive. Yeah, yeah. 826 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,840 Yeah, so, yeah, so they came along. 827 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:23,000 But I suppose that was after Beryl Virtue, who I think she 828 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,280 was an old friend of Alan's. Alan Simpson had been at primary 829 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,680 school, I think with Beryl and her future husband. 830 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,160 Clem and I might have played football with Clem as well or 831 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,680 something. And so they'd had a typist, 832 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,240 hadn't they, when they started. So September 5th, before they 833 00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:41,560 get going and they have some other. 834 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:42,800 And she turned out not to be very good. 835 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,520 So, so Beryl had been typing up scripts for Ray and Ellen 836 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,360 anyway, because you know, she'd just done a course at 837 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,640 secretarial college or something. 838 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:58,880 She'd also had TB and just sort of come out as and then so 839 00:45:58,880 --> 00:45:59,880 they're looking for someone else. 840 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,560 So I think Alan persuades her to come in for an interview. 841 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,720 So she goes in and of course, you know Spike does a wacky 842 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:08,120 interview with her and asks lots of questions about tea. 843 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,560 So she talks about in that in the program, you know what sort 844 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,800 of tea do you like and how do you make your tea and 845 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,080 everything. And so and then just so I think 846 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,040 she'd be perfect and she didn't want the job at all because it 847 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,600 was just too far out of her way, you know, because she was 848 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,960 somewhere in South London somewhere and this was over in 849 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,240 in Shepherd's Bush. So it involved, you know, 850 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,440 getting a trolley bus. And it was all just far too. 851 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,160 She was very good, Beryl, she was absolutely great. 852 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,080 She came on to the interior and her little suit and everything 853 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,640 and she was just really good. And of course she goes on to 854 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,400 have as greater career, you could say, is any of them. 855 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,560 It's just absolutely amazing. And she starts off as the typist 856 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,360 and they have to persuade her to come in because she doesn't want 857 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,200 the job. She tries to price herself out 858 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,360 of it. She tells them, oh, I'll do it 859 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,920 if you pay me, you know, whatever, it's £10 a week, you 860 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,720 know, some extraordinary figure. And so they're all horrified by 861 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:01,240 that. So she's almost got out of it. 862 00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,560 But then somebody says, oh, well, that's only £2.50 each, 863 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,400 isn't it? Or you know, £2.10 shillings in 864 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:12,720 those days and so she gets the so she gets the job and I 865 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,840 really, you know, it becomes her story. 866 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,360 One of the things, the reason that they'd formed this company 867 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,640 was to encourage other people and to help other people. 868 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,760 So I think the BBC thought this was a bit of a godsend because 869 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,480 when people wanted to write, they wrote to the BBC. 870 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,000 And so they used to say, you know, there's there's some 871 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,200 writers down in Shepherd's Bush, why don't you go down there? 872 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:44,680 So different writers began to arrive who were sort of new on 873 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,440 the scene. When I look back, I think how 874 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,760 extraordinary my life has become because I said, oh, all right 875 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,320 then. She is just the typist. 876 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,000 But then they start asking her for a while, you know, oh, could 877 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,440 you, you know, speak to the because it's very difficult for 878 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,440 This is why you have an agent. This is why I've never got 879 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,440 anywhere. If you have an agent, they can 880 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,360 just, you know, just get you a bit more money. 881 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:11,160 It's just easier for somebody else to to ask for a bit more 882 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,880 money for you. And so she has to speak to the 883 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,360 BBC on Galton, The Simpsons behalf and says, well, there's 884 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,400 two of them and you know, they, they work very hard And, you 885 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,680 know, it's not fair that, you know, they're just having to 886 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,480 split this same thing. So, you know, there would have 887 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,680 been like half each of what maybe Spike was getting. 888 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,200 So she gets them a bit more and and then she starts doing this 889 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,640 for all the writers, getting them a little bit more and the 890 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,960 contracts and eventually, you know, somebody says how long 891 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,960 have you been an agent for? And she didn't realise she was 892 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,760 an agent. She becomes the manager of this 893 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,320 thing and she becomes an agent and of course the the really 894 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,240 famous one. Of course, you know, down the 895 00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:51,360 line, one of the writers who comes through the door is a guy 896 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,720 called Terry Nation. And Terry Nation invents the 897 00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:59,400 Daleks in Doctor Who. He didn't invent Doctor Who, but 898 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,520 he did invent the Daleks. Yeah. 899 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,000 And and yeah, and Beryl, she came up with the idea of 900 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:07,360 merchandising. Yeah. 901 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,840 Well, yes. The product So like say with the 902 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,800 Daleks, things like Tele goons, glove puppets. 903 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,080 There was a Hancock. Board game. 904 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,240 There was a Hancock board game and I mentioned that to her and 905 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:21,400 she'd completely forgotten that she'd and that that might have 906 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,200 been the first thing that they did like that a sort of spin off 907 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,240 product. So there must have been 908 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,680 something in the contract about, you know, associated products or 909 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,560 whatever and well, you're never going to have that. 910 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,880 So he just crosses it out and nobody noticed, you know, But 911 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,120 then that just turns out to be hugely lucrative, especially if 912 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,120 something like Terry Nation. But then the other thing that 913 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:49,640 she did do was she may have crossed out in the Contra was 914 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,520 about the overseas rights or whatever it was, which meant 915 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,200 that they could then sell the format. 916 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,840 And of course that turned out to be huge because then, you know, 917 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,320 she was able to sort of pioneer this idea that, OK, you've got 918 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,720 till death, this duppart that Johnny Spate comes up with and 919 00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,240 becomes a huge hit in in the 60s. 920 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,840 But then they could sell the format of that to America. 921 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,560 So they kept hold of the format. It wasn't handed on to the BBC. 922 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,800 Associated London Scripts kept the format and then you could 923 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,800 sell it to and have it turned into All in the Family with 924 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,640 Archie Bunker. Archie Bunker, but we're we're 925 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,360 killing ahead of ourselves because we haven't really meant. 926 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,920 We mentioned Johnny Spate. We mentioned John and Travis and 927 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,880 passing I suppose, but John, John was ex Sandhurst. 928 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,400 Yes. And by his own admission, he was 929 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:38,520 quite posh. And he was. 930 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,120 He was the youngest as well. That's right. 931 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,560 And then he, he came in and he learned from Johnny speak to 932 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,160 speak like a bit of a company, which he's still doing to this 933 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,080 day. I mean the story to, again, 934 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,520 it's, it's worth digging out from that interview that he was, 935 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,320 he renting a room from Bill Kerr's mother-in-law. 936 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,840 mother-in-law. Oh, yeah. 937 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,160 So Bill Kerr was married to a maybe married to an English 938 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,880 woman and yeah, his mother-in-law. 939 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,560 So, yeah, So, yeah, so he got in touch then and they, they got 940 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,560 him to write a kind of, you know, trial Hancock script, 941 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,760 which obviously, I mean wonder if he's still got that, that'd 942 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,200 be interesting, wouldn't it? And that got him in. 943 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,200 So yeah, so he's 21. So he's very, you know, he's 21 944 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:20,840 and now? He didn't. 945 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,280 He didn't. He do this, He said. 946 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,920 He did the same thing later with the Army game he wrote. 947 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,400 He asked Peter Eaton, the producer, if he could write for 948 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,560 the Army game and Peter Eaton knocked him back. 949 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,200 Really. And then he just, he wrote he 950 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,800 just sent one. He just wrote a script and just 951 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:40,880 sent it in anyway to Peter Eaton. 952 00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:44,480 And he, Peter Eaton, got got in contact straight away and said 953 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,160 yeah, love it. Do you want to do some more? 954 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:49,680 Yeah. And obviously they had this 955 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,560 relationship with Spike to be in that sort of relationship 956 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,320 listeners, I mean a working relationship, not there's 957 00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:57,360 anything wrong with that sort of thing. 958 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,360 I do wonder, you know, like obviously the bed sitting room 959 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,400 is like the biggest thing he ever did. 960 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,720 But like the spike sort of take that over quite a bit. 961 00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,680 And the original idea that, you know, Entrust describes, you 962 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,520 know, is this guy, what was it the the guy who's that he's 963 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:24,760 turning into a a bed sitting room and and what was it his 964 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,680 analyst or his psychiatrist or something? 965 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,200 He's living in the bed sitting room. 966 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,560 So if he cures him, then he'll be homeless. 967 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,440 You know, it's something like that. 968 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,040 That's the original idea. But then Spike adds, you know, 969 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,800 all the spikeness to it. And I suppose it's maybe it's 970 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,920 slightly, you know, the bed sitting room overshadows 971 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,200 everything else because that was such a success in the early 60s. 972 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:47,840 And Milligan is involved in this. 973 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,440 So if he's doing something, then not with Milligan. 974 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,320 People, you know, wear Spike sort of thing. 975 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,120 You get that. But also probably his issues 976 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,440 that cropped up afterwards and he came and you know, had a bit 977 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,040 of trouble with the bottle I believe. 978 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,120 Well, he's very open about that. And he talks about how he a bit 979 00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:10,400 like Dick Van Dyke in the late 60s, he lost the entire years, 980 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,800 you know, the entire years that he doesn't remember. 981 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,320 And John Entrebus implies that that was similar with him in 982 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,120 terms of he he doesn't remember what happened after the sort of 983 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:24,360 Stigwood period kicked in. In this office we had, it was 984 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:30,680 all laughter and phones and typewriters and things banging 985 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,840 away. Some people wrote by hand. 986 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,720 It was all quite odd. And I had a a blackboard. 987 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,160 There was a big blackboard. It was rather like a Bomber 988 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:47,240 Command control room and on and chalked on this on this board 989 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,080 were were the names of the writers with their current 990 00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:56,240 employment and they all would sort of rub out this or put this 991 00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:58,960 one in. I thought the board was was 992 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,440 factious what's she going to say like Johnny Spate is now 993 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,400 approaching Lime Grove Studios. Come in Johnny Spate and Gordon 994 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,720 and Simpson at L Street. You know on Hancock latest 995 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:13,480 Hancock film. You know, I mean it's just 996 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,000 useless information and and sending Pam to rub things out 997 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,280 and chalk new things up. They move around, don't they? 998 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:25,200 They start off in that greengrocers at Oxbridge Rd. 999 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,760 then they move from there in 1957. 1000 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,040 So I suppose in the immediate wake of you know starting out 1001 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:36,520 19541955 Johnny Spate of all pair of virtue starts on 1st of 1002 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,600 January 1955 I think. And then Johnny Spate and John 1003 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,480 Entropus come in I think during the course of that year. 1004 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:44,680 And then you get the other people. 1005 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,320 Eventually they're so big that they move to another place in 1006 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,920 Kensington High Street in 1957 larger premises. 1007 00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:58,680 Then they sell the Kensington offices and they buy perhaps the 1008 00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:04,680 most famous address to to to us, which is Ohm Court, 9 Ohm Court 1009 00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,000 in Bayswater Rd. which is absolutely lovely. 1010 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,800 So there was a. Which is which is which is now 1011 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,640 the Kosovo embassy? Truly is it? 1012 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,640 As of last year. Oh my. 1013 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,520 Good. So where have Kosovo got the 1014 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,160 money from? Is this all sort of dodgy money 1015 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,680 because it was up for sale the year before, 6/6 and a half 1016 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,760 million? Lord, yeah. 1017 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,120 And yeah, there's a piece in the Daily Mail about it. 1018 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,520 And I was thinking, you know, this, this can't be right 1019 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,200 because they're saying, you know, The Goon Show was 1020 00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:44,120 rehearsed here. Well, not if they went in 1960, 1021 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:47,040 but then I thought, well yeah, but then I thought what they 1022 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,160 mean is the less scooch of all. So yeah, they would have gone in 1023 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:52,920 there and gone through it probably. 1024 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:59,800 And he says the Daleks were created here and Davros Davros 1025 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,480 is 70s. But no, apparently Terry Nation 1026 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,400 went back in 1975 to sit in there and unless the Daily Mail 1027 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,360 just added the detail to write, you know, whatever it is genesis 1028 00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,880 of the Daleks. So there you go. 1029 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,680 Yeah. Have you got Can we talk a 1030 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,720 little bit about Terry Nation? Yes, Terry Nation turns up with 1031 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:21,520 a guy called Dick Barry or, I don't know, maybe they they're 1032 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,480 both from Wales. I think they may have turned up 1033 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:29,200 as you know, 2 for the price of one sort of thing together. 1034 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,760 But yeah, so Terry Nation is one of the writers. 1035 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,080 So yeah, we should actually just mention the other people who 1036 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,600 come through the door. Johnny Spate, John Andrews, Deep 1037 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,440 Barrier, Terry Nation. John Junkin turns up, he's 1038 00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,800 written the Goon Show script and he gets the number for ALS and 1039 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,480 he comes in and finds Milligan there on a Saturday morning. 1040 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,520 And so he gets in and shows him this Goon Show script. 1041 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,040 Who else? You've got Dave Freeman, but 1042 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,160 Ashton, Dick, Rosborough, Maurice Wiltshire, Lou Schwartz, 1043 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,800 Eric Merriman. Barry took eventually Marty 1044 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:02,760 Feldman. Marty Feldman. 1045 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,360 Yeah, yeah, but yeah, Terry Nation. 1046 00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:10,360 So he is one of AL s s writers. It's interesting in, you know, 1047 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:15,800 relation to Galton and Simpson because Galton and Simpson get 1048 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:22,480 the push from Hancock in November 1961. 1049 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,360 So this is just after they've done that amazing series where 1050 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,400 they've got done the blood donor and the radio ham and all these 1051 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,320 kind of, you know, the I think the lift is in that series as 1052 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,240 well, isn't it, The Bowmans. So they've just done all that 1053 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:40,560 and then they've tried to write another screenplay for him, 1054 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,280 another film, and then he gets fed up with it. 1055 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,160 And it's just, you know, it's very, it's very foolish 1056 00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,200 behavior. Just sacks them as as his writer 1057 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,960 by that stage. Obviously Beryl is acting as 1058 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,640 Hancock's manager as well, so he sort of must have come in by 1059 00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,040 that stage. But so, Hancock. 1060 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,920 But he could, but he doesn't. He could bare all the elbow as 1061 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:03,520 well. Because he does. 1062 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:04,360 He does, brother. Roger. 1063 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:05,600 He becomes his age. That's right. 1064 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:06,240 Yeah. Yeah. 1065 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,920 So, and I think that meeting lasts about, you know, a minute 1066 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,520 or something. He just sacks them all, you 1067 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,440 know, He just don't want you to write for me anymore. 1068 00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,880 Well, it always seems, you know, when I spoke to Colton and 1069 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,920 Simpson, there was a slight bit of, you know, did he mean, I 1070 00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,440 don't want you to write for me ever again or I don't want you 1071 00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:25,120 to carry on writing these, you know, try out film scripts for 1072 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,160 me? But anyway, what it came to was 1073 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,720 that they went off and they tried to pitch their series with 1074 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,360 Frankie Howard and Tom Sloan or whoever it was at the BBC said 1075 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,280 no, you can't do Frankie Howard because he's finished. 1076 00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,200 So he had this other thing for them, which was Comedy Playhouse 1077 00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,280 and he didn't know what he was. It's got a title called Comedy 1078 00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:44,720 Playhouse and you can do whatever you want. 1079 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,720 You can be in it, you can write it, you can do whatever, You can 1080 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,720 direct it, produce it, whatever. And so they do, you know, it 1081 00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:54,320 becomes, you know, like a series of one off half hours and the 1082 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,680 4th one, you know, they're stuck for an idea. 1083 00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,040 So they start writing this idea and they come up with the thing 1084 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,720 of the two Rag and Bone Men. The offer. 1085 00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,560 The offer, Yeah, Which turns into a series listeners. 1086 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,200 It becomes very popular. It's Steptoe and Son and then 1087 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,880 Beryl sells it to America. Sanford and Son. 1088 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,760 But Terry. Although although Mike you say 1089 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,680 that yes, of course it it is the American version. 1090 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,240 Yeah, that we that we know is Sanford and Son, but there was 1091 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,600 did you know there was an earlier. 1092 00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:27,200 I was the. American was a pilot in the 60s 1093 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,680 and it was called Steptoe and Son and I have seen it. 1094 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,880 Who was in that? I can't remember. 1095 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:36,160 Anyway, anyway, whatever. What anyway is very different. 1096 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,240 So they sold them the format and the Americans changed it 1097 00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,560 greatly. Where were we? 1098 00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:45,080 Terry Nation, right. So Gold and Simpson have been 1099 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:50,960 given the push from Hancock. But then Hancock, a year or so 1100 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,040 later is touring around, and this is before, you know, Doctor 1101 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:58,080 Who and everything and his writer that he's touring around 1102 00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,800 the, you know, treading the boards and the guys going around 1103 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,800 with him is Terry Nation. So this is odd, isn't it, 1104 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:08,160 Because he's sacked Beryl, he sacked Galton and Simpson, but 1105 01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,400 now he's using somebody from, you know, down the corridor, 1106 01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,160 Terry Nation to be, you know, his writer, another ALS writer. 1107 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,720 That's. That just seems peculiar to me, 1108 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,880 that having done anything as drastic and terrible as he had 1109 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,760 done, and ultimately suicidal, literally suicidal, it would 1110 01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,360 have gotten Simpson that he's then using Terry Nation. 1111 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,000 I I didn't offend anybody, did I, when I was all right. 1112 01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,280 Oh, it was simply. Marvellous. 1113 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,160 All the channels were falling about. 1114 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,320 Were they? I can't remember that. 1115 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,840 I don't know. I can be a bit of a wag when I'm 1116 01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:49,160 on the milk stout. Did I sing? 1117 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,120 I'll take you home again, Kathleen. 1118 01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,560 Yes, several times. Yes. 1119 01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,720 But I didn't offend anybody. No, no, no, not at all. 1120 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,880 Look, why don't you again get dressed? 1121 01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:05,680 I'll wake up. Sarah. 1122 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:06,680 Sarah. Yes. 1123 01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:07,400 Sarah. Yes. 1124 01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,560 And they would all again have a spot of breakfast together. 1125 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,760 Yes, yes, That's a that's a good idea. 1126 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,360 I didn't actually punch anybody. Oh no, no. 1127 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,800 You want pipeline eyes? Termination is is going around 1128 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,040 these theatres with Hancock and one day they are shooting the 1129 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,840 breeze and Hancock comes up with this idea of these pepper pot 1130 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,960 shaped robots and we start sketching them out and 1131 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,400 everything. And so, a year or so after that, 1132 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:46,520 Hancock is watching the telly. Doctor Who comes on, and lo and 1133 01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:51,560 behold, who is, you know, who's written this series on Doctor 1134 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,840 Who but Terry Nation? And there's the Daleks. 1135 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:58,840 And Hancock is facing, yeah, stolen me, Terry Nation. 1136 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,520 Stolen my robots. Imagine if he'd got that Dalek 1137 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,040 dollar. He'd have been in Clover for the 1138 01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,200 rest of his life, wouldn't he? Yeah, well, maybe he just wasn't 1139 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,640 bothered. But yeah, the thing about 1140 01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,040 deterioration And he kept control of the Daleks, which 1141 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:20,920 then meant because Beryl Virtue's daughter is Sue Virtue 1142 01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,480 and she got married to Steven Moffett. 1143 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,120 Moffett. Who then becomes the showrunner 1144 01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,120 in the later incarnation of Doctor Who? 1145 01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,640 So then when he wants to get the Daleks on Doctor Who, he's not 1146 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,480 got to negotiate with his, you know, the estate of Terry Nation 1147 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,040 or something, because they retain the rights to the Daleks. 1148 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,240 So, you know, there's a payout to the heirs of Terry Nation. 1149 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:46,240 Isn't it crazy? You think? 1150 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:52,160 You think you know 19591960 and the offices of ALS and you've 1151 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:53,880 got Beryl Virtue in Terry Nation. 1152 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,920 You know, little did they know that. 1153 01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,280 This will be a dynasty. 4050 years later, yeah. 1154 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,440 It's more than 60 odd years later and this is still a thing, 1155 01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,720 yeah. So John Entropus talks about, 1156 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,720 you know, they they, they everyone shared around 1157 01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,440 assignments depending on their workload. 1158 01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:16,000 Even if it was a lucrative gig, you know, it was quite, it's 1159 01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,040 quite egalitarian in that sense. And there was a lot of wandering 1160 01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:23,680 in and out of others offices for inspiration or just a smoke and 1161 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,000 a drink. They played golf in Terry 1162 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,000 Nation's office and darts and Lou Schwartz's office. 1163 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,560 They'd go to the pub. The Moscow Arms. 1164 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,600 Yeah, it was nearby a lot. As soon as we had finished 1165 01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:41,160 today's work, probably spate and anyone else that was around 1166 01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,920 would go straight up into Eric's room and he wouldn't know he was 1167 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,120 either playing golf or doing something or other. 1168 01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,920 Open up his cocktail cabinet and get get stuck in and then Eric 1169 01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,520 will appear and was like pubs are open, let's go down to 1170 01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,840 Moscow, arms chucking out time there or near enough we'd say. 1171 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,800 Where should we go next? That was ABBC Club, then a 1172 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:06,160 Television Centre, which was the best bar in London and apart 1173 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:10,400 from Eric's place, so we'd all power down there. 1174 01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,240 I don't know how we got any work done really, but there was very 1175 01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:16,880 productive time. Called Youth. 1176 01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:19,200 Yeah, I know. But at that time, we're doing 40 1177 01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,960 scripts a year. God knows I. 1178 01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:23,560 Think we better go back to it, don't you? 1179 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,640 Of course the other thing which is which, which is important for 1180 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:33,880 Goon Body listeners is the guy who runs the the junk shop who 1181 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:39,400 is William is it's actually. So that's where he comes from 1182 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,320 because he he had the junk shop next to Associated London 1183 01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,160 Scripts, that's where that cannot be correct anyway. 1184 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:47,320 Well. John mentioned as well. 1185 01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,960 John mentions someone tries to tries to join our ALS and keeps 1186 01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:55,440 coming in with scripts, but they keep rejecting him and he says 1187 01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,200 he's dressed as a Boy Scout. Yes, he does. 1188 01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,720 And I'm wondering, so yeah. Is he? 1189 01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:02,640 Is he thinking of Ruxton? Yeah, Heywood. 1190 01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,280 Yeah, maybe he is. Maybe that is the link? 1191 01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,680 But he also he he described rather loftily. 1192 01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:13,800 John described the overall mindset of the ALS group as 1193 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,640 Chekhovian. What did he mean by that, Do you 1194 01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:19,640 think I? Don't quite know, but no, it 1195 01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,520 seemed like they they would all sort of bounce ideas off each 1196 01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,560 other. It was an open, you know, very 1197 01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,880 much an open door policy in every in every office. 1198 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:32,240 I thought that is another important reason why they would 1199 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:38,120 have all these extra writers. Because The thing is, if you are 1200 01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,480 a successful writer, not that I would ever know anything about 1201 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,720 that, but then you're getting so much work that you can't do it 1202 01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,480 all yourself. But, you know, if you've got 1203 01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,000 somebody up the corridor, oh, I know this, you know, we've got 1204 01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,360 John Antrobus just up the corridor. 1205 01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,600 And if you can't get Spike Milligan, John Antrobus will do, 1206 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,960 you know, something is good sort of thing. 1207 01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:59,560 So that is one reason for having all these extra people in. 1208 01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,000 You know, you can spread all that work. 1209 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,200 You don't, you don't have to turn any work away. 1210 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,800 So it was it becomes like, you know, the BBC writers room sort 1211 01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,840 of thing, doesn't it? This is where you, BBC, don't 1212 01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,200 know what to do with all these all these people who were 1213 01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:13,800 turning up, so they send them there. 1214 01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,760 So yeah, maybe that is where Ruxton Hayward went. 1215 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:19,800 What? What sparked the ashtray 1216 01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:24,240 incident? With Eric Sykes, Spike was a 1217 01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,560 difficult person to actually sit, you know, it's just the 1218 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,640 stress they must be under. So Larry has sort of hit the 1219 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:35,080 bottle and gone and this was the final store for, you know, Eric 1220 01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:36,720 came and started trying to fight the goon. 1221 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:40,960 So how many actual goon shows did he sit and actually write 1222 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,520 with Spike in the room with it before they? 1223 01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,160 Well, there's the thing we don't really, I don't think we really 1224 01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:54,160 know there's a there's a handful of the nearly 20, maybe the 20 1225 01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,160 goon shows in Series 5 that are the joint credited to Spike and 1226 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:05,200 Eric. Yeah, maybe a third, maybe half 1227 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,920 were probably mostly written by Eric and the others were mostly 1228 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:14,600 written by Spike with somewhere there was maybe a bit more 1229 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:16,400 collaboration I think. So, right. 1230 01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,000 So they might have left us about six weeks actually sitting in 1231 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,560 the same room together trying to do it. 1232 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,440 Yeah, maybe. And then we have, we have the 1233 01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,000 ashtrays. I mean, you know, the thing I 1234 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,240 always think with that is what happened to the person who was 1235 01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,160 walking on the pavement outside with the stray game. 1236 01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,520 You don't hear about them, do you? 1237 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:37,360 But that could have been lethal, That ashtray coming down, Yeah, 1238 01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,640 they they they were just arguing over a line, weren't they? 1239 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,400 They just couldn't quite get the rhythm of a Isn't that what what 1240 01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,360 what he said is just, you know, just one word in the line. 1241 01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,000 Should it be this or should it be that or whatever? 1242 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:53,320 And Spike throws the ashtray at him and he ducks. 1243 01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,480 The ashtray goes through the window, lands on some 1244 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,600 unfortunate soul walking down the Uxbridge road. 1245 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,720 Just going to go in and buy his kind of potatoes at the green 1246 01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,360 grocers. It can't have been a glass S 1247 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,400 tray, kind of must have been metal because Sykes goes down 1248 01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:11,720 and picks it up and brings it back up, puts it back on the 1249 01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,440 table because what does he say? You know, don't forget which day 1250 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,640 this was or something. There's nobody says to him and 1251 01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:19,479 something. Like that. 1252 01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,800 And so from then on, you know, but of course, you know, they 1253 01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,279 were very practical. Eric Sykes, because, you know, 1254 01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:26,960 they, they remained the best of friends. 1255 01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:29,080 Yeah. Yeah. 1256 01:08:29,319 --> 01:08:30,279 And then? Because. 1257 01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:33,840 Because, yeah, because my spike was very dismissive of Larry's 1258 01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:38,720 talents. Yeah, he he, he was kind of 1259 01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,720 grudgingly complimentary about Eric's contribution to the game 1260 01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,720 show. It's quite interesting that he, 1261 01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,760 he was quite comfortable working with John Antribus as well. 1262 01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,680 I think it's because John Antribus probably was just so 1263 01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,760 laid back and quite. Younger. 1264 01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:58,040 And younger and and obviously. I was also less successful. 1265 01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,960 Eric was younger, true and much more successful when they 1266 01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:03,720 started this. True. 1267 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,640 Maybe that is an issue. I don't know if it is, but I'm 1268 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:12,560 just reading into it that it's like, you know, Eric in a way is 1269 01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:17,720 the senior partner and then then the spike and then he brings in 1270 01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,319 Galton and Simpson. So there's some people who in 1271 01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:26,520 the hierarchy who's below Spike? Well, that is conjecture. 1272 01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,680 That is absolutely conjecture. But but yeah, he he doesn't have 1273 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:31,920 that. You know, he's able to sit in 1274 01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,560 the room and work with people like John Entrebus and he's able 1275 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,560 to sit in the room and work with obviously Neil Shan for years. 1276 01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:42,200 But yeah, but then, you know, you know, like John was saying 1277 01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,359 in that interview, in later life, you know, he just becomes, 1278 01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:50,840 you know, there's just always an insult coming from Spike and 1279 01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,720 you, you just have to not take it personally sort of thing. 1280 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,320 I always longed to be a playwright. 1281 01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,000 I I while I was script writing I I still longed to be a a 1282 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,320 playwright and although I enjoyed script writing and I was 1283 01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,240 a natural edit and spike asked me to write goon shows with him 1284 01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,280 but I only wrote 2 with him. But I mean that was a great 1285 01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,440 experience and sort of a wonderful things. 1286 01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:21,080 I went along to the first read through and Spike said because 1287 01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,200 Peter Sellers was the only one wearing a suit and Spike said we 1288 01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:29,080 all, we haven't got much money, the goon, she says. 1289 01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:33,560 But we decided to save up for a suit and and we've given it to 1290 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:39,200 Peter Sellers to wear. For the first three years, Peter 1291 01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,360 Sellers kept wearing it. You never, they never bought a 1292 01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:43,600 second suit. The other person I was going to 1293 01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:49,040 just say a bit about if we have time was Scruffy Dale because 1294 01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:55,040 his name lives on with one of his clients, Jim Dale. 1295 01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,720 Jim Dale was given his name by Scruffy Dale. 1296 01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:00,920 Oh, I'm trying to think of. I'm trying to think of some 1297 01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:06,520 celebrity called Scruffy. Also Scruffy Dale. 1298 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:12,440 He managed the Vipers Gifford group through ALS and they were 1299 01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:16,400 recording where else on the phone George Martin record 1300 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:21,080 producing. Scruffy Dale sets up this tour, 1301 01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,760 the hunt for the country's best skiffle act. 1302 01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:28,760 So there's two proper acts on the bill, Jim Dale and the 1303 01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:30,840 Vipers. So they go around the country 1304 01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,800 doing these shows and it's like Britain's Got Talent sort of 1305 01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,760 thing. Britain's Got Skiffle and all 1306 01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:41,560 the local skiffle groups go on and this was a terrible idea 1307 01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,840 because they've all got exactly the same repertoire. 1308 01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:49,200 So you can watch the Vipers doing all these kind of songs 1309 01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:51,320 properly because what have you got? 1310 01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,760 You've got Rock Island Line and don't you rock me Daddy O or 1311 01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,440 something, you know, not many. So all these though, you know, 1312 01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:00,760 that was spotty. Herbert's sort of come up do 1313 01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:03,680 those skiffle things as the kind of talent shape, and they'll do 1314 01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,760 the same songs as the Vipers, then come up and do properly at 1315 01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:09,080 the end. So it's a terrible talent shape. 1316 01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:16,160 Anyway, so interesting enough, the scruffy Dale Skiffle talent 1317 01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:19,960 show comes to Beautiful in March 1958. 1318 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:25,280 So who do you think was in that? No, no, it wasn't. 1319 01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,920 It was the Raving Texans. The Raving Texans. 1320 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:35,000 You can then get excited again because, oh, it's well, they 1321 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:36,760 eventually become more. We stormed the Hurricanes. 1322 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,480 Oh, do you mean Ringo was the drummer? 1323 01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,840 No, he wasn't. They didn't have Ringo until a 1324 01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:46,000 little bit later, I don't think. And they when it was the Dark 1325 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,920 Town Skiffle group with the winners in Liverpool. 1326 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,280 Actually, I'm wondering if this all is all come from another 1327 01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,080 excellent guest on your podcast, Andrew Hickey. 1328 01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:02,840 But Spike will get net lights for Vidale, Eric Sykes and 1329 01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:04,080 Frankie Howard. Thought he was good at 1330 01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:09,360 contracts. He then took on Johnny Kidd and 1331 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,560 the Pirates, So what he was doing is some sort of dodgy 1332 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,720 accounting thing that was going on with Scruffy Dale. 1333 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,200 So he's siphoning money away from Sykes and Frankie Howard, 1334 01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,440 and if he had a success with his music acts he would count that 1335 01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:27,600 as something he'd done independently so he would get 1336 01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,960 the money. But if he was unsuccessful, 1337 01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,360 strangely enough, he was then marked down as an ALS project. 1338 01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:35,880 So they had to carry the the bill for it. 1339 01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,840 So this will have, will have upset Milligan, won't it? 1340 01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,360 Yeah. So they have this running and 1341 01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:43,240 it's all successful. They're all doing their progress 1342 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,440 and it's going from strength to strength and you've got Steptoe 1343 01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:49,800 and so on. And Spike's doing his stuff. 1344 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,600 And Eric Sykes, of course, has his TV series which runs all 1345 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:57,960 through the 60s and 70s. Sykes and and then Sykes, yeah. 1346 01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:00,320 Yes, yeah. Originally written by Johnny 1347 01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:05,000 Spade, Until Death is Depart, starts 1965. 1348 01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:09,120 I mean, John Antrovis is, you know, he says that Johnny Spate 1349 01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,360 was working on that from the word go and was it called 1350 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:13,640 Jamaica? Road or something. 1351 01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,560 Yeah. He tells that story about how he 1352 01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:19,240 he, Johnny Spate, is never there in his office when he's meant to 1353 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,960 be. So John Antrovis turns out, and 1354 01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:24,560 he just says, oh, I just start writing. 1355 01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,120 It starts writing this thing which will eventually be still 1356 01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:29,920 deathless. Do part this idea that Johnny 1357 01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,680 Space already had. So he's developing sort of 10 1358 01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:34,040 years where it ever gets anywhere. 1359 01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,400 And the original, the original name for the character of Alf 1360 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,600 Garnet was going to be Alf Ramsey. 1361 01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,640 It was Alf Ramsey, wasn't it? Yeah. 1362 01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:47,080 So yeah. So obviously ALS had a stable of 1363 01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:51,360 very talented writers. Just want to list some of the 1364 01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:57,480 programs and films and other projects that these people were 1365 01:14:57,480 --> 01:15:01,520 involved with, you know, from the 50s right up until the last 1366 01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:06,440 gasp of of ALS as we Know it. So obviously you've got The Goon 1367 01:15:06,440 --> 01:15:08,960 Show. You've got Hancock's Half Hour 1368 01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:13,720 Educating Archie. Frankie Howard Show, Harry 1369 01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,280 Seekum Show, The Betty Hill Show, Great Scott. 1370 01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:21,680 It's Maynard Show called Fred Son of Fred Idiot Weekly. 1371 01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,440 The Max Bygrave Show at the Tony Hancock Show. 1372 01:15:24,440 --> 01:15:26,640 Alfred Mark's time, which was awful. 1373 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,320 The case of the Muckanees Battle Horn. 1374 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:35,320 The Arthur Haynes Show, which Johnny Spate wrote until 1966. 1375 01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:37,840 Yeah, I think it wasn't Arthur Haynes. 1376 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,960 He might have been Alf Garnett, wasn't that the story? 1377 01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,080 But then, of course, he he dies. Oh, right. 1378 01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:47,480 Yeah. The Army game. 1379 01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,800 The Ted Ray Show. The Jimmy Logan Show, Beyond 1380 01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:52,240 Ken. The Arthur Aske Show. 1381 01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,000 The Running Jumping and Standing Still Film. 1382 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:59,040 Sykes and Citizen James. Comedy Playhouse. 1383 01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:01,400 Bootsy and Snudge. The Anthony Newley Show. 1384 01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,400 Steptoe and Son. That Was The Week. 1385 01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,200 That was the telly goons of course. 1386 01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:13,840 Hancock Dr. Who of course. Milligan's Wake St. 1387 01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:20,560 Round the Horn Till Death is duppart BBC Three films like The 1388 01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:25,600 Big Job, The Bargie with Harry H Corbett, What a Whopper. 1389 01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,400 The Rebel, which I'm going to watch tonight. 1390 01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,520 Actually, I've got the Blu-ray of it Finally, I'm going to 1391 01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,160 watch that tonight. The Spy With the Cold Nose, 1392 01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,040 which was originally offered to Peter Sellers and it was written 1393 01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,280 by Ray Allen. Well, that was the story, wasn't 1394 01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,880 it, that, yeah, after Sevens and over his art stack, and then 1395 01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:44,080 they with the script, and then he's rolling around on the floor 1396 01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:46,320 laughing at this script and they think they're going to kill him 1397 01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,680 again after his architect. And then he didn't do the film 1398 01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:54,320 at the end anyway. Yeah, Yeah, The Plank and and 1399 01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,400 other things like records like, you know, Ying Tong, Song, 1400 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:02,000 Bridge on the River, Why just so much, So much that, you know, 1401 01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:07,320 the exemplified 50s and 60s British comedy. 1402 01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:13,040 Yes, yes, I know. It is just absolutely enormous, 1403 01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:14,440 isn't it really? And that's all coming out of 1404 01:17:14,440 --> 01:17:16,680 this one organization. So you think in a different age 1405 01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,640 they would have been a production company. 1406 01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:23,560 But yeah, Beryl's Beryl sort of brings in this guy, Robert 1407 01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:28,240 Stigwood. The big change then came into my 1408 01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:32,040 life, and indeed several of us was Robert Stigwood. 1409 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,720 I wanted to do more production. I just thought it seemed the way 1410 01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,080 to go and it interested me a lot. 1411 01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:43,520 And I just thought one could make use of of this talent which 1412 01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,400 I was surrounded by. But I didn't have enough money 1413 01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:49,920 to do it. I was introduced to Robert 1414 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,000 Stigwood, who I didn't know and he didn't know us. 1415 01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:57,040 And Robert at that time was very, very involved and very 1416 01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:02,720 successful in the music business and had some major artists like 1417 01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:07,880 Eric Clapton and the Bee Gees. And then Robert wanted to expand 1418 01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:13,000 that company into films and television, which she did not 1419 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,920 know about. And so we ended up that we we 1420 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,080 did do a deal with the Robert Sigrid organization and it 1421 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:23,680 completely changed my life. He merges his agency with Mens 1422 01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:32,560 in January 1967 and he he'd for a time, he looks like someone 1423 01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,280 who could take over from Brian Epstein. 1424 01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:40,720 But The Beatles did not like him, so they would have nothing 1425 01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:44,360 to do with him. So that's where I think you know 1426 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:48,000 you know if I if we get handed over to Robert Steak or we will 1427 01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,080 just record, you know, God save the Queen, you know over and 1428 01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,440 over again that's all you'll be be getting. 1429 01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:59,240 So but it's just interesting because he's involved with them 1430 01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:02,680 at this stage and then he gets he purchases A controlling 1431 01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:08,200 interest in ALS in 1967. So for your Beatles booms 1432 01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:13,520 connections, ALS is almost of the theme, which means that The 1433 01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:17,320 Beatles and the Goons end up as one thing under one 1434 01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:23,080 organization, you know, very, very nearly, but therefore was 1435 01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,200 just sort of wanting to kind of expand and do more stuff and 1436 01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:31,040 films and so on. And that just causes this rift. 1437 01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:37,360 And so when we did our program 20 years ago on associate 1438 01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,480 scripts, Eric Sites would not speak to us. 1439 01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,720 So we got rather A1 sided, you know? 1440 01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,120 Oh, it's interesting. You're sad, Yeah? 1441 01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,520 Alex Sykes was so vivid, Rather split, that for the rest of his 1442 01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:51,600 life he referred to Galton and Simpson as Simpson and Galton. 1443 01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,440 Really. So he So did he never speak to 1444 01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:56,040 them again after. That I don't think he did. 1445 01:19:56,440 --> 01:19:58,440 I think he literally never spoke to me. 1446 01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:01,520 Jeez, I think so, yeah. Simpson and Galton. 1447 01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:03,840 And what about Milligan? What was his? 1448 01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:09,000 Well, you see The thing is, you know we say this and this great 1449 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,600 race, so this is about 196768. They split. 1450 01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:17,800 So that's the end effectively of associated London scripts as 1451 01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:20,280 we've thought of them as this kind of, you know, powerhouse of 1452 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,760 comedy script writing and you know all the people you've 1453 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,800 mentioned Spike and the Goons and Hancock and Step 2 and 1454 01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:31,160 Johnny Spade and so on. However, two words for you 1455 01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:34,720 cropped up recently on your podcast You Come the Castle. 1456 01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,760 Because when's that made 1970? Yeah. 1457 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:41,880 So this is. This is. 1458 01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,440 In that, yeah, he's in that. With So The Beatles would have 1459 01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:49,240 with Frankie Howard. Yeah, Frankie Howard Beatles 1460 01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:51,040 wouldn't have anything to do with Robert Stigwood, but 1461 01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,120 luckily there was another group who would, and that was, of 1462 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,000 course, the Bee Gees Cucumber Castle. 1463 01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,720 So Spike is involved, though that is some years after this 1464 01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:03,880 acrimonious, supposedly acrimonious split. 1465 01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,480 Yeah, and and and Beryl Virtue by this point is is managing 1466 01:21:07,480 --> 01:21:09,360 director of. Yeah, that's right. 1467 01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,120 So you know, she's she's gone from the typist who didn't want 1468 01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,000 to be the typist and now she just becomes this incredible 1469 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:18,880 kind of force in in in TV and films and. 1470 01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:22,560 All this sadly and. Well, yeah, but you know, right 1471 01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:24,480 through, you know all those films that you mentioned, the 1472 01:21:24,480 --> 01:21:28,240 Steptoe films and this is the Eric Sykes film, isn't there, 1473 01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:32,400 Which is again, that's when was he making that because The Plank 1474 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,400 and all this kind of business. That's 67, was it 16? 1475 01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:40,280 So again it's yeah, so it's either around the time of the 1476 01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:46,160 split or just after and yet it is done under the auspices of 1477 01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:49,120 you know associated London scripts or associated London 1478 01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,480 films or whatever. You know, the sort of spin off 1479 01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:54,560 thing is for that. So you know that's intro. 1480 01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:57,800 But he was he was a little bit bitter. 1481 01:21:58,480 --> 01:22:00,360 He wouldn't, he definitely wouldn't have anything to do 1482 01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:04,000 with this I presume we tried to get Norma as well because Norma 1483 01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:07,640 again, he'd been Norma Farms, that is, who carries on as 1484 01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:11,720 Spike's manager for years. She had been part of ALS and 1485 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:13,880 Beryl was trying to persuade her to come with them. 1486 01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:18,440 And you know, I think she she probably really liked Beryl, but 1487 01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:20,960 decided to stay with Spike and look after him. 1488 01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:26,520 So Spike and Eric and Alan had a meeting, and Spike and I were 1489 01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,440 dead against it. They wanted to stay. 1490 01:22:30,440 --> 01:22:34,560 I stay at home court and do their own thing, you know, which 1491 01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,200 I mean they both had, you know, obviously, you know, enormously 1492 01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:40,840 successful careers just so they didn't really need it and and 1493 01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:42,760 they didn't want to lose their independence. 1494 01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:46,880 You know, I suppose also the the way it started in the 1st place 1495 01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,920 was to avoid being part of of another organization, which is 1496 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,360 how I started. I mean, Ryan, I was thinking was 1497 01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,760 that it was just doing nothing, stagnating and it would be a 1498 01:22:57,800 --> 01:22:59,880 step forward. Well, I mean there's one thing 1499 01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:02,160 as well. I've just remembered few years 1500 01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,800 into the 70s, not sure which which series of cue it was. 1501 01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:11,200 Spike wants to do the that sketch with the dialects. 1502 01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:16,320 Oh, yes, of course, yes. And apparently, because 1503 01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:19,120 obviously Terry Nation held the rights to the dialects, 1504 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:22,520 apparently Terry Nation initially said no to allowing 1505 01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:26,480 Spike to to use him. So the story is that Spike 1506 01:23:26,480 --> 01:23:32,320 reminded him that he had given him his break and you know, come 1507 01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:37,880 on mate, but a payback. So Terry consented, and so the 1508 01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:41,080 world was gifted the Pakistani Daleks. 1509 01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,680 Yeah, that's that's. I don't suppose he called him 1510 01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:49,400 mate though, But yeah, all those Beryl things, you know, The Who 1511 01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:52,920 with Tommy is that. And let us not forget the 1512 01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,200 Sergeant Pepper film with Bee Gees and Frankie. 1513 01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:01,240 Frankie Howard, yeah, there's all those pictures of of Frankie 1514 01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:06,080 and Beryl with Bee Gees. Robert Sidwood signed their 1515 01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:12,520 contracts or something, but. Look, there's so much we could 1516 01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:15,960 have talked about and. Yes, there is. 1517 01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,240 And I'm sure I had some very important points to throw it at 1518 01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:22,680 the end and I've now lost it. What was it going to be? 1519 01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:24,360 Oh, no, that's it. Yeah. 1520 01:24:24,440 --> 01:24:25,840 Yeah. No, the other thing. 1521 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:28,640 Yeah. So Eric's all very upset about 1522 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:32,000 the the split. But the thing that I think Alan 1523 01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:36,360 Simpson remain quite upset about is, you know, this is also all 1524 01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,280 to do with London property prices. 1525 01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:42,840 Because remember, they've started off with some rooms 1526 01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:47,240 above the greengrocers. And then, you know, eventually 1527 01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,360 they moved to Orme Court and Spike and Eric as part of their 1528 01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:52,040 divorce settlement at the end of ALS. 1529 01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:57,400 They got all caught. So ALS owned that, but Eric and 1530 01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:02,560 Spike got the building at which eventually I think Spike sold 1531 01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,040 his share to Eric, didn't he? In the end. 1532 01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:09,560 So Eric earned it outright. So when it was sold in 2022 to 1533 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:16,600 you say, the Kosovo embassy, 6.5 million look. 1534 01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:20,520 So you've gone from some rooms above the Green Gracer to jeez 1535 01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,880 to it looks like it should be worth more than 6.5 in there. 1536 01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,480 It's not worth 6.5 million, but in ridiculous London property 1537 01:25:27,480 --> 01:25:30,520 prices, that actually looks like they might have been quite good. 1538 01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,760 But yeah, it looks absolutely, absolutely lovely and what a 1539 01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,000 nice place to have worked all those years. 1540 01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:41,920 Absolutely, yeah. So there we are, the story of 1541 01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:45,960 right associated London scripts. So we skipped the surface. 1542 01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,760 We skipped the surface. And there's one picture of them, 1543 01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:51,440 isn't there? Which is on the front of Ken's 1544 01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:56,600 book of of Spike and Eric and Ray Galton. 1545 01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:02,040 Ellen Simpson and Beryl sitting there like she's and Spike is is 1546 01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:03,600 the one photograph of them all together. 1547 01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:06,920 And it must be from that 1955 or something when they all started. 1548 01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:10,640 Spike is doing his best to you know, crazy Spike. 1549 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:14,960 Look the other four. Is that barrel, is that? 1550 01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,040 Barrel I think it is. That the original typist. 1551 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:18,800 No, I think that's barrel. OK. 1552 01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,280 The other, the other four are going along with it rather 1553 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,640 reluctantly. I think Alan Simpson just has 1554 01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:25,920 his head right down. He doesn't want to be associated 1555 01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,960 with this at all. He's just decided to dictate a 1556 01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:33,320 memo about that. Anyway, so an amazing, an 1557 01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:35,120 amazing time. An amazing. 1558 01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:37,240 And. There we are. 1559 01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:39,960 Absolutely. And as I as I said, in terms of 1560 01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:43,600 British comedy history, Associated London Scripts was 1561 01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:48,160 arguably the most important and influential gathering of talent 1562 01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:50,600 unsurpassed. Yes. 1563 01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,040 To this day. You know it is. 1564 01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:57,640 It is just extraordinary. But yeah, it is just amazing 1565 01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:02,160 figures and then you know some less amazing figures join in. 1566 01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:07,240 But, but also we should just mention, well, this is Graham 1567 01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:12,400 McCann's book of Spike and Go, but a lovely book about all this 1568 01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,720 thing is John Antropus's book Surviving Spike Milligan, if you 1569 01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:19,880 find a copy of that, OK, that is very much worth a look. 1570 01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,760 He does, he does at one point say that he got a phone call 1571 01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,880 from Peter Sellers in 1981. So, you know, if he'd had had me 1572 01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:30,240 into do some editing on that, I could. 1573 01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:32,080 And maybe it's through Morris Wood. 1574 01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:35,000 So so did Michael Bentin. Let's fix it. 1575 01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:38,400 Well, that's right. All right, Mike. 1576 01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:40,800 Well, listen, brilliant. Thank you so much for for your 1577 01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,200 time and. No, that is an absolute 1578 01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:43,560 pleasure. Thank you so much for having. 1579 01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:46,160 Me back on. Fascinating information there, 1580 01:27:46,160 --> 01:27:49,200 so and and I'm sure you'll you'll come back another time 1581 01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:51,680 and talk about something equally interesting. 1582 01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,760 So anything to plug anything at all. 1583 01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:57,840 I have my My Beatles tours around the pool. 1584 01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,600 So get in touch, come on my Beatles tours, give me a shout 1585 01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:06,200 through my website. I don't have a website on my 1586 01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:10,680 tour through Twitter. Don't don't get in contact 1587 01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:12,280 through his website because it doesn't exist. 1588 01:28:12,480 --> 01:28:16,240 It does not exist, but yeah, if anyone wants to come on one of 1589 01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:20,560 those, that will be lovely and. Yeah. 1590 01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,640 Yeah, we will just see if any of my various films. 1591 01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:27,680 And now we've just been trying with with my friend Paul 1592 01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:31,520 Cornwell to get various things off the ground and no one is 1593 01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,920 buying. We've just not managed to get 1594 01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:36,720 anywhere so far. So one thing we were trying 1595 01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:39,960 recently was, you know, the final, you know, Speaking of 1596 01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:42,200 Associated London scripts, we were trying to get the final 1597 01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:46,200 encock theme off the ground, the final Hancock, Galton and 1598 01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:50,720 Simpson projects, one of those kind of film scripts which they 1599 01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:53,840 wrote up for him and which he didn't do so well. 1600 01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,920 You know, it's it's Hancock's centenary. 1601 01:28:58,440 --> 01:29:02,200 But no, I think he's gone over the horizon, you know, so none 1602 01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:05,080 of the TV companies were interested in doing so. 1603 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,200 We will try and do something else with it if possible. 1604 01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:11,160 It's all marvellous. They will be fine in the end, 1605 01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:15,560 and if only if only I had bought all court and had a share in it. 1606 01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:19,760 Brad and I had an office in their Kensington High Street and 1607 01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:28,280 on one occasion I leaned over too far in my chair and my elbow 1608 01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:31,680 went through a window and hit an artery and blood spurted 1609 01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:36,080 dramatically and Spike. Milligan heard my manful screams 1610 01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:40,000 and rushed in since he applied an expert tourniquet. 1611 01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:45,920 And then Brad Ashton drove me to Cherry Cross Hospital and the 1612 01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:49,040 doctor looked at this wound and kept looking at us very 1613 01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:54,320 suspiciously and say, how did you say you got this, this 1614 01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,120 injury? He said this looks like a knife 1615 01:29:57,120 --> 01:29:59,520 wound to me. Who applied this tourniquet? 1616 01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:03,800 And I said spike Milligan, which really made him suspicious. 1617 01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:10,320 And so I gave him Spike's phone number and he phoned and I said 1618 01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,680 to Spike, there's a man here who claims that you apply the 1619 01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:17,640 tourniquet. His name is Vosburg or Vosburg 1620 01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:20,400 and Spike Milligan characteristic, he said. 1621 01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:23,840 I've never heard of the man before in all my life and hung 1622 01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:24,160 up.