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They spot. 
You see because I got the first 

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series of crazy people. 
Script out just for research, 

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really? 
Because I've never heard it. 

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Yes, I see crazy people wasn't 
so funny. 

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No, I agree, I agree. 
But if you did it and said by 

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the first goon show and ball 
whatever it is, instead a 

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selection of material from crazy
people, or whatever it is rather

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than go for the first script. 
I see, very interesting, I must 

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say that as an experiment, would
you walked in on it? 

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Whatever. 
Do to help you? 

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Derek, whatever. 
Whatever gives you? 

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I'm very easy, I'm very 
malleable. 

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Well, I want a different shape 
every day. 

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I just lucky I like this today. 
Hello and welcome to goon pod. 

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My guest this week is the 
legendary much lionized producer

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and writer. 
Dirk maggs the master of 

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cinematic audio Dirk is an 
innovator and a risk taker and 

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has developed a particular slap 
you around the face style of 

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soundscape in a career spanning 
over four decades, can anyone 

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else claim to have produced such
a Rent and diversity of work, 

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including adaptations of Neil, 
Gaiman Agatha Christie, Stephen 

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King and Douglas Adams, as well 
as bringing the Marx Brothers to

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new audiences, and creating 
audio comic books, featuring the

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likes of Superman and Judge 
Dredd. 

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And when the definitive history 
of the goons as written, Dirk 

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will Loom large in terms of 
helping introduce the show to 

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new audiences and preserving it 
for future Generations? 

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No, stranger to Trophies just 
last year. 

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He was awarded the best audio 
book, producer award at the BFI 

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in London for I'm a guest. 
Ian Billings has described him 

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as the Spielberg of sound and 
I'm delighted to welcome you to 

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the show Dirk. 
Thank you, Tyler. 

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It's lovely to be here. 
Thank you for asking me a board.

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I was worried that I'd been shut
out of the Goon pod goon show 

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Legacy and I couldn't come on 
and tell you how much I love the

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Goon show and indeed the goons 
themselves. 

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So don't let's let's let's start
at the now first and then we'll 

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go back to the beginning. 
I know you've been working a lot

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with said before Neil Gaiman. 
What are you working on at the 

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moment? 
Well, we're just about to 

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release the Sandman act 3, which
is Niels, you know, huge comic 

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book Saga, which you wrote in 
the late 80s and up to the mid 

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90s based on an old DC, Comics 
character, the sort of 

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completely reinvented. 
And we've just yeah, we're just 

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about to release a third series 
and it's a huge. 

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It's an 11 and a half hour epic 
and Being Neil, it has 

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everything in it, including 
several kitchen sinks worth of 

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Mythology. 
Most both Neil's own mythology 

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and real mythology is there such
a thing as real mythology? 

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Hmm. 
But get back to you on that. 

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Yeah, Norris Greek. 
You name it. 

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It's in there. 
And, you know, you talked in 

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your intro about this sort of 
audio movie style of doing 

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things. 
This is so, so vast, and so full

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of different stories in the last
Series in Act 2. 

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We went from revolutionary 
France to ancient Rome to 

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modern-day America, road trip 
stuff. 

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It's just amazing. 
It's such a privilege to work on

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it and it's also the scariest 
thing I've ever done because it 

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has absolutely Die Hard fans, 
who, who know everything. 

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If you take one full step, they 
know where you are. 

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So it makes working on, Douglas 
Adams stuff which I have in my 

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time like a walk in the park in 
some ways working on hitchhikers

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at that time just before social 
media, really kind of took off 

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in terms of. 
Yeah, it was very interesting 

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because the fans really 
resented, somebody getting the 

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box of Lego and building stuff 
with it, even though I was 

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working along instructions from 
Douglas. 

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And and actually, interestingly 
over the last 15 to 17 years 

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since we did it, it's become 
Cannon. 

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What we, you know what? 
I had to introduce to help 

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Square the circle of some of the
stuff that Loose Ends Douglas 

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that hanging. 
And at the time was really, you 

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know, quite quite vicious. 
But then after a while it 

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settled down and the worth of it
came out, I think so actually 

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it's been quite Smooth ride with
Neil. 

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But then the big Advantage with 
Neil, is that he's still alive, 

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I can talk to him, you know, I 
can actually pick the phone up, 

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which is obviously, when Douglas
passed on not something I could 

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do with Douglas, was that wasn't
that some story before you got 

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fully on board with hitchhikers.
Hmm. 

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That there was an early draft 
script that included dinosaurs. 

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Yeah, that well, it was before I
volunteered to write it. 

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The writer was brought aboard, 
who is a really well? 

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Thought of very lovely man. 
Very nice guy and a very good 

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writer but he didn't get 
hitchhikers. 

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And so his draft script for the 
first of the third series. 

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Involved a talking dinosaur, he 
needed someone for Arthur Dent. 

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Imperious, toric Islington to 
talk to and he introduced it 

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talking dinosaur and the script 
arrived with me in radio light 

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entertainment, My desk in 1992 
having discussed all this with 

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Douglas and I thought I don't 
think this is going to fly but 

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Douglas should see it. 
So I carried it over to Douglas 

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is house in Duncan terrorists 
and 40 minutes later. 

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I heard the explosion and and 
Douglas on the phone, come over 

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come over at once come over at 
once. 

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So, I went over to the house and
Jane, his wife was just going Of

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the to a case because she was a 
barrister, open the door and 

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they blacks in a barristers gear
and she said he's downstairs. 

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So I went downstairs and Douglas
banging away on this Old Mac 

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laptop near when they all black 
ones with a clamshell lid. 

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00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,700
Yeah. 
And he's banging went and he got

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to about page 3 of his script 
and and he's and he slammed the 

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top of the MacBook close and he 
said I can't write this fucking 

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book twice and and I said it was
the Talking Dinosaur wasn't? 

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He said it's awful, it's awful. 
I can't believe it did that, you

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know, and all this stuff. 
And it was really a weird moment

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because it seems someone in sort
of almost physical pain from 

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from having their work. 
Traduced. 

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I suppose although that wasn't 
the intention of the writer. 

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I know he just was finding a 
solution to a problem. 

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And what Douglas wanted was 
straight translation of the 

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book. 
It was pretty simple, really no 

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one had to You didn't have to 
gild the Lily, and that's what I

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said. 
Well, you know, I could do it, 

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you know, I don't mind even if 
and if you like what I've 

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written and want to say, it's 
yours. 

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That's fine. 
But I could do it as long as I 

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get paid. 
So, it's quite fortuitous. 

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This talking dinosaur? 
Yeah, well, it was except then 

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the whole thing fell apart 
because there was a real problem

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with the right? 
So, we didn't actually 

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eventually make this or I didn't
even write it till the 

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mid-2000s. 
And of course, Douglas died in 

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2001. 
So it's really a bit sad because

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we talked it all through. 
I knew how he wanted to do it. 

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I, you know, I I had it all in 
my mind but he wasn't there 

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anymore, which was horrible. 
Hmm, I want to ask you about 

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first of all, no, I asked about 
the making of the Patrick Mall 

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story. 
The Patrick Moore story. 

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Hmm. 
Which which? 

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Which predict the radio version 
of the radio thing? 

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Didn't you didn't get a sneak 
camera when you're ready. 

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Yes. 
No. 

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I'm sorry. 
I was, I didn't even know you. 

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I didn't know it was common 
knowledge, that we made a film 

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called well actually more story,
really? 

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Yeah, because you mentioned 
about the same and you mentioned

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nozzles Norse mythology and I 
believe you did a version of 

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modules Saga as well. 
In, you know, well, what are we 

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did? 
We did do a knows me and knows 

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story, but it was about, it was 
an amazing. 

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Where'd all this information 
government, obviously, right up,

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very closely when I was at 
school. 

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When we were 16 in the early 
70s, I just wanted to make 

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films. 
I really fancy making films and 

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so just brought in their family 
cine camera which was a standard

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eight. 
It was that old And I'm with a 

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bunch of mates. 
We just said, well let's do 

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something and and we saw that 
Patrick was coming to open a 

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fate at ardingly College. 
We were in Hayward seethe, 

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grammar school, filmmaking 
society, and in mid Sussex and 

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adding like college was a bit up
the road and it was the local 

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sort of private school and weird
coincidence Department. 

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It is the school that Neil 
Gaiman attended and indeed, all 

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right, might even have been 
there on the day. 

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We were attended their school 
Fete. 

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Which was opened by Patrick 
Moore who descended in a 

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helicopter. 
So we went and settled about 

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fiddle last about and did this 
took some footage of Patrick 

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arriving and then we thought we 
should make, you know, because 

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they will all these, you know, 
the the the Al Jolson story or 

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the Benny Goodman story, or 
whoever, Glenn Miller store, you

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know, all these things that we 
said we should do a story. 

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So I'm, you know, we just went 
around our house, it's and I had

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to be Patrick because my Most 
resembled his without when I 

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00:10:21,608 --> 00:10:25,500
didn't have a bit and put a bit 
of elastoplastic everyone 

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eyebrow and and and painted and 
eyebrows and more worked up and 

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this film. 
But the thing is, of course, at 

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that time, because they've been 
all these other story films, he 

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had all sort of silly gags in 
it. 

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Like, you know, when we had 
Patrick's parents being seen, 

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the Midwife comes to announce 
the baby has arrived. 

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00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,100
It's very sketchy. 
Any knowledge of how biology 

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works. 
I think the parents came out and

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one was Hitler. 
The father was Hitler and the 

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00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:03,500
mother was somebody in 
blackface, which is terrible. 

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But at the time it is, there was
the Al Jolson story in this was 

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supposed to be a story film. 
You know. 

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This was all the provenance 
under in this the early 70s and 

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so on and so forth and cringe, 
cringe cringe now to think about

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00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,500
it. 
But you know, that was We did. 

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00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:23,200
But you know, this was a start 
and then we showed this effort 

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00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,100
with some sort of crude 
soundtrack Cobble together, on 

185
00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:30,900
an old archive reel-to-reel at 
the school fair that, you know, 

186
00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:34,700
a few weeks later and it read 
about eight or nine minutes or 

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00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:40,000
so on it was it was, you know, 
pretty rough but we had such fun

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00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,800
doing it. 
And, you know, again and a lot 

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00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,300
of the influence then was from 
Monty Python and all those 

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00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:49,100
python historical things, you 
know I could tell her the Honda 

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00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,400
And not all of that with the 
gags. 

192
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:57,200
And that we really that was very
influential and so we decided we

193
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,400
do a Viking Epic. 
So we came up with this script 

194
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,400
called they came and went where 
the Vikings invade and the 

195
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,500
Celts, the tried to think of 
Revenge. 

196
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:12,500
And so they put cascara in the 
Vikings needs and the Vikings 

197
00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:14,500
have their Victory. 
Banquet, they will have to rush 

198
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:19,600
off to the Loo. 
Seems to be you know, Means of 

199
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,200
defeating them, but it was great
because everybody dressed up and

200
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,500
we had, I don't know, probably 
about 30 of us and I drew up a 

201
00:12:27,508 --> 00:12:29,800
sort of plan. 
Whereby you could make another 

202
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:34,100
Viking outfit out of, you know, 
find an old bed sheet for a 

203
00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:37,700
cloak and make stuff out of 
cardboard, Dustbin lid Shields, 

204
00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:41,400
and so on. 
Anyway, um, I'm not a proud of 

205
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,200
what we ended up with it with 
1972 or 1 or whenever it was, 

206
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,300
which was you know, which a 
Actually runs about 15 minutes, 

207
00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:54,800
20 minutes. 
And we had a full-scale battle 

208
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,800
on Ditch. 
Landing Beacon with Vikings and 

209
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,100
Celts and so on. 
And, you know, adding sound 

210
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,300
effects and what have you? 
It was really fun. 

211
00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,800
Definitely influenced by python,
definitely influenced by the 

212
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,800
goons, and it sort of made me 
want to do, you know, to make 

213
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,700
storytelling my my career. 
Why, but I didn't know was, I'd 

214
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:18,000
end up doing it in sound. 
Only that's fine by me because 

215
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,100
it worked out well. 
Yeah, totally. 

216
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,300
So, do these these films still 
exist? 

217
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,800
Yeah, they do. 
I mean, you know only for 

218
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,900
private consumption. 
I think what I think the Viking 

219
00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:32,000
one could be seen, you know, we 
started an abortive gangster 

220
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,500
movie the following year, but 
then we had to do our a level so

221
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:38,100
they went out the window, right?
So but no, the Viking was good. 

222
00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:41,200
I mean, the Patrick one-eyed I 
didn't even show up to Patrick, 

223
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,700
and I knew Patrick quite well 
later on because I didn't want 

224
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,800
to upset him because it was just
a bunch of lads being silly with

225
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,700
a Film camera and it really had 
nothing to do with him at all. 

226
00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:54,600
And, you know, as I say, there 
was stuff in some of the early 

227
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:55,900
scenes, which was a bit 
upsetting. 

228
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:59,900
So there's a kind of cleaned up 
version that I've shared with 

229
00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:02,900
with, with the gang from back 
then. 

230
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:06,500
But yeah, it's not something 
like I want to be remembered 

231
00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:08,600
for. 
To be honest with you, you 

232
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,400
wanted to be a Storyteller of 
sorts and you got into audio but

233
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,600
I know you worked in. 
You worked on BBC TV for a 

234
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,000
tricky time, but you found that 
a bit of a chore. 

235
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:21,100
Yeah dude, I'm always working. 
Presentation which means 

236
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:24,800
basically stitching together. 
Our two hearts of the job ones 

237
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,600
making trailers for things and 
when we're stitching together, 

238
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,600
the evening's programmes on BBC,
One and BBC, Two in prayers, a 

239
00:14:31,608 --> 00:14:34,000
and press B Studios, and 
television sent about them with 

240
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,700
these tiny Studios. 
I was there for between a 1988 

241
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:42,800
one, but 18 months really and I 
thought, well, I'm going to go 

242
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,900
into drama, I want to go to or 
children's television, I wanted 

243
00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:49,700
to get into the storytelling B, 
the Telly but I I just found 

244
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,100
Tilly center, it's never been a 
place. 

245
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:56,400
Do you know, everybody's so 
nostalgic about it and so on and

246
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,900
so forth on, I get that if you 
worked there, you get attached 

247
00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:04,300
to somewhere, but I found it 
cold and and slightly 

248
00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:08,100
uninspiring, which is sort of 
terrible thing to say. 

249
00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:12,500
But I did frankly, I did. 
And, and I just thought I'm 

250
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:16,400
having I had more fun in audio 
really, and the other things 

251
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,000
I've played drums in bands. 
That was my other thing. 

252
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,500
I was in a couple of bands of 
that time play around London, 

253
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,800
you know? 
And so 12 hour, shifts were not 

254
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,200
very, you know, kind of helpful 
and I'd met, you know, girl, I 

255
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,000
wanted to marry. 
So I just sort of pulled off 

256
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,500
back into the back to radio 
again and I didn't miss Telly at

257
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:38,300
all. 
I thought I wanted to work in 

258
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:42,800
films and television, and I'd 
already spent a month on a film 

259
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,500
set in Toronto, on a Donald 
Sutherland film and been bored 

260
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:52,400
out of my My tiny mind, the only
useful skill. 

261
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,100
I came away with was how to lace
up a Panavision magazine for a 

262
00:15:56,108 --> 00:15:59,800
film camera, you know, which is 
sort of a skill. 

263
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,500
You're not called upon much to 
perform these days if you can 

264
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,900
but you know it was that was it 
was amazing to me it wasn't for 

265
00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:13,400
me in a weird sort of way and 
yet you know, when I was at 

266
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,000
College I was at teacher 
training College as it was in 

267
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,300
Winchester King Alfred's, which 
is now a university of 

268
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,100
Winchester. 
We'd run a television station 

269
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,700
doing a weekly news program, 
which was really fun to do. 

270
00:16:24,700 --> 00:16:26,900
And I'd enjoyed that. 
But that was because we were 

271
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:30,700
kind of bucking the odds we did 
it against, we didn't have 

272
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:32,800
permission to do it. 
It was kind of a pirate 

273
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,600
operation and I think that was 
the fun of it, you know, we we 

274
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,500
we actually were laying coaxial 
cable at 3:00 in the morning 

275
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:43,800
across the roofs of the Student 
Union and the other buildings to

276
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,500
get the signal from a TV studio 
to the Student Union, that was 

277
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,200
rather fun gorilla. 
A kind of filmmaking and I think

278
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,000
I'd still like to do that. 
Yeah, but when it gets 

279
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,600
formalized God, it's boring. 
Yeah. 

280
00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:01,100
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. 
How little events little 

281
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:05,099
occurrences can have such a 
profound effect on people's 

282
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,599
careers future careers. 
You went to work for radio to 

283
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:11,300
doing trailers, I believe. 
Yeah, yeah. 

284
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,200
Yeah, and yeah. 
And there was this campaign 

285
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,099
called Crime Check its what is 
it fair to say that that 

286
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:22,000
campaign kind of At your career.
Yeah, we did it that it took. 

287
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,400
Yeah. 
I mean it's the weirdest thing. 

288
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,200
It's like the slowest Domino 
topple in the world, right 

289
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,800
Korea? 
It's so weird because I started.

290
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,800
I got into the BBC as a trainee 
Studio manager, which was 

291
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,100
basically, you know, Studio 
technician playing in records or

292
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:41,600
tapes or operating. 
The desk was a was a dream far 

293
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,500
in the future. 
You were lucky just to play 

294
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,200
stuff in and get the coffee and 
the tea. 

295
00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:51,100
But I It was the only job I 
applied for coming out a teacher

296
00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:52,600
training College. 
I knew, I didn't want to be a 

297
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,700
teacher. 
I thought I might be an actor 

298
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,800
realized I didn't have the skill
for that applied for this job 

299
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,000
because a friend had got it, 
somehow got into the BBC. 

300
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,200
And I really don't think I'd get
into the BBC. 

301
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,300
Now, if I applied, I don't think
they'd have me. 

302
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,200
I don't think I'm enough of a, I
don't know what, I don't think. 

303
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,100
I would tick enough boxes for 
them, right, but but I managed 

304
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:18,900
to get in and that kind of was 
the first top dog. 

305
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:22,600
You know, and then, you know, 
ruling stuff out with the next 

306
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,800
couple of Domino's. 
No, it won't be television that 

307
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,500
we film and then, you know, my 
wife and I got married and we 

308
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:32,700
had a baby and I'm saying, I 
just I can't be a studio manager

309
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:35,300
for the rest of my life because,
you know, I'm not a technically 

310
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:39,600
Adept person really I couldn't 
operate the gear but, you know, 

311
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,700
I'm sure I can, I can create 
more than this. 

312
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:44,300
And then, you know, we had a 
plan that I would try and get 

313
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,300
into radio light entertainment. 
But because that was too big, a 

314
00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,100
jump. 
I had this interval where I I 

315
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,800
worked at and thank God, they 
gave me the job radio to 

316
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,700
presentation making trailers and
it was enormous fun. 

317
00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:00,200
And we would make the standard 
kind of trailers like Ken Bruce 

318
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,900
would, you know, do a spoken 
trailer for some new thing in 

319
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,500
his show? 
We would just add a bit of music

320
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:11,300
and package it up and put it on 
carts and but occasionally, we 

321
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,300
would get a special campaign 
like the license fee campaign 

322
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:17,400
or, you know, Crime Check, which
was sort of neighborhood. 

323
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,600
Watched writ large. 
On BBC, Radio 2. 

324
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,700
And for that, we were going to 
do a series of trailers and 

325
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,600
these trailers would feature the
radio to announces. 

326
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,400
I'd have a duty announcer, 
Patrick and lungs or Steve 

327
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:36,600
Madden or whoever. 
And so, we do all the regular 

328
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,000
stuff in the morning. 
You know, Kimberly's is Trail or

329
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,900
Paul Jones for the rhythm and 
blues show or whatever it was. 

330
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:44,400
And then in the afternoon, we'd 
leave the two trails that we 

331
00:19:44,408 --> 00:19:47,100
could play with and have a bit 
of fun with them. 

332
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:50,700
So for the license fee, The 
campaign we did the one minute 

333
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:55,300
Lord of the Rings which was you,
it's just a stupid idea but, you

334
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,900
know, the dark lord would like 
something special for his 

335
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:01,700
birthday old gets. 
Give him a television licence 

336
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:06,300
Coke, that's sort of, you know, 
stupidity with big themes and 

337
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:10,300
sound effects in a ceramic huge.
This is before Peter Jackson, I 

338
00:20:10,308 --> 00:20:15,200
might tell he ripped me off, I 
know he did, but but we also had

339
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,200
this thing where we doing this 
crime check. 

340
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,900
And I thought, let's do lots of 
big ol dick. 

341
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:22,300
Teams famous detectives and I 
thought of Miss Marple and 

342
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:26,000
Poirot and Sherlock Holmes and 
that's all Batmans. 

343
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,800
A detective from be great to do 
Batman. 

344
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,000
So because in those days, you 
know, being the BBC had to clear

345
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,900
rights all the time and I didn't
had a clear rights on Batman. 

346
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,700
So I looked up the phone number 
was for DC Comics in New York. 

347
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,300
A so it was this and which was 
in those days like ringing Mars,

348
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,200
you know, it was like completely
possible. 

349
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,300
So I rang got put through to the
international Affairs 

350
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:53,800
Department, lady called Phyllis,
got in the lion and, and who to 

351
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:56,300
become a great friend and who 
introduced me to Neil Gaiman. 

352
00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:00,500
I might add but Phyllis, so this
was a phone call out of nowhere.

353
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,100
Just me thinking, right? 
Okay, International directory, 

354
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:08,300
inquiries daddy Duty down and 
long story short. 

355
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,100
I've set up a factory Batman 
Trail and she said well actually

356
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:16,500
one of us is coming over on 
their way to the Frankfurt book 

357
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:18,600
fair next week so they'll be in 
London. 

358
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,900
So She could come and check. 
It's all right and so we made it

359
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:24,300
and had nice lady. 
Good Chantal turned up. 

360
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,600
Listen to it and said it was 
okay. 

361
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:30,300
Meanwhile in a hidden cave deep 
underneath the Mansion on the 

362
00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:33,900
outskirts of Gotham City. 
Holy frustration Batman until 

363
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,000
the new crime computer is ready.
Can we keep tearing the rising 

364
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,700
crime rate that's the last 
circuit in place Robin. 

365
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,600
Now to switch on for a complete 
picture of crime, statistics 

366
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,000
worldwide, only Global crisis 
and we've got our hands full 

367
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,800
with Gotham City. 
Only people. 

368
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,600
I knew how to protect 
themselves. 

369
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,700
Wait let's ask the computer 
thinking Batman, what does it 

370
00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:55,500
say? 
It seems we have an ally and 

371
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,000
I'll fight you mean. 
Superman Wonder Woman. 

372
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,300
Do the BBC all next week? 
They're running a campaign on 

373
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,300
radio tool called crime. 
Check at vising people on how 

374
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:07,500
they can avoid becoming victims 
of crime and how victims can 

375
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,100
help themselves this be the end 
of the dynamic duo is this where

376
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:12,500
we hang up? 
Our utility. 

377
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,400
I've doubted Robin but let's 
hope. 

378
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,600
People tune into radio tuned 
next week for Crime. 

379
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,600
Check the backseat. the 
Batmobile Robin, if only we had 

380
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:29,700
cried Jack here in Gotham City, 
And as she left to go on to 

381
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:33,700
Frankfurt, she said, oh, by the 
way, next year's Superman's 50th

382
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:35,200
birthday. 
You might want to do something 

383
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,900
for that, not knowing that I was
just in trailers. 

384
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,400
Mmm, but me, applying that 
moment for light entertainment 

385
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,300
and part of the application for 
a production job at my tent was 

386
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,000
to pitch. 
Be able to pitch ideas. 

387
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,100
You had to come in with three 
ideas to pitch. 

388
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:56,000
Yeah, I thought oh birthday 
Superman sounds like a good 

389
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,600
opportunity for a Injury. 
So I pitched it. 

390
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,100
I got the job and the program 
was commissioned. 

391
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:07,400
And so in 1988 we did a thing 
called Superman on trial which 

392
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,400
was the idea the conceit was 
that it was a docudrama. 

393
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,500
You had Superman on trial, the 
defending attorney was Lois 

394
00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:16,300
Lane. 
The prosecuting attorney was Lex

395
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:20,200
Luthor, which if, you know, 
Superman means that his 

396
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,500
girlfriend's defending. 
It his biggest enemy is 

397
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:27,500
prosecutes, which also shows 
that the whatever night School. 

398
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:30,200
They had in Metropolis in the 
late 80s, turned out. 

399
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:36,500
Lots of, it's a lawyer's anyway,
and we could then in the context

400
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:39,300
of the trial, presenting, as 
evidence, we could dramatized 

401
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:43,500
bits of the old Superman comics 
as evidence, which is what we 

402
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:47,700
did. 
And so, you know, that kind of 

403
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:51,700
began the ball rolling on my 
comic book connection, which in 

404
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:56,800
turn got Douglas Adams 
interested in my work and asking

405
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,700
me. 
Pick up the reins on hitchhikers

406
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:01,500
because Geoffrey Perkins had 
gone off to Telly. 

407
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:05,100
Yeah. 
And also through another route 

408
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:09,500
and yet strangely, another 
Protege of douglass's was Neil 

409
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:14,600
Gaiman, who was introduced to me
by by the lovely Phyllis who is 

410
00:24:14,608 --> 00:24:17,100
no longer with us all these 
interconnections. 

411
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:18,600
It's so weird. 
Yeah. 

412
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,700
And at the same time while I was
at Radio to I first met Spike 

413
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:27,800
because he was, we were doing 
children in need and every year 

414
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,300
we had to do children in need, 
it was just getting celebs who 

415
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:35,200
were in doing interviews to do a
little trailer for us. 

416
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,900
So for example, Don Messick, who
did the voice of Scooby Doo? 

417
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:43,200
Oh yeah I got him to be 
Scooby-Doo but you know I'm you 

418
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:54,800
know, there's something wrong. 
Dom was lovely and all sorts of 

419
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:00,300
great people like Pat Boone The 
sort of wow squeaky-clean pop 

420
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:05,900
star who very you know very 
Christian American Christian. 

421
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,600
It's like guy by the time he 
came in but he was lovely 

422
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,800
actually he walked past the play
of plate of really curly 

423
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,000
sandwiches in the corridor 
outside the the the continuity 

424
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,400
sweet and said these are good. 
Pick one up at net except why 

425
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,400
I'm hungry and I thought that 
sound when they're on a stick, 

426
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:27,300
but spite was in. 
And so I got spiked to I wrote A

427
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:34,200
quasi Spike script saying. 
You know my folks it's me you 

428
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,900
know Spike Milligan. 
Oh while I'm typing error you're

429
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:38,900
still all the game show, you 
know stuff. 

430
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:41,500
Yeah. 
Stuck the queue theme over it 

431
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,800
and that was one of the things 
but that was my Big Thrill 

432
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,200
meeting Spike Milligan and I 
thought that would be it, you 

433
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,200
know. 
Yeah well I've that's one tick 

434
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,600
off the bucket list At that 
time. 

435
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,000
So that's the late. 
Late 80s. 

436
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,500
Yeah, about 88. 
Yeah. 

437
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,400
So did you get, did you get 
spiked on formal? 

438
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,800
Did you get spiked being 
difficult? 

439
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,300
Yeah, good question. 
It was 87. 

440
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:07,400
Remember now because by AJ, I 
was in light N. 

441
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,200
I never had spiked off form. 
Okay. 

442
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,700
I am so lucky. 
He and he we got on incredibly 

443
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:21,600
well, and I think it probably 
because you are loved it. 

444
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,200
Unconditionally, I never never 
asked B to do anything. 

445
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,900
You didn't want to do and I must
have made it clear in my 

446
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:37,500
demeanor, probably the Bowing 
and the approaching only on my 

447
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:41,300
knees and leaving the room 
walking backwards in here that I

448
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:46,000
sort of is in minor deity. 
But no, we he was always very 

449
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,100
good with me. 
I did see him having moments 

450
00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:53,700
with other people and And those 
other people getting very upset 

451
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,200
because Spike was being super 
hostile. 

452
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,400
But that seemed to me to be 
where he felt that his personal 

453
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,700
space, in some way was being 
encroached upon now and he 

454
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:10,900
needed that bubble around him 
and you entered the bubble. 

455
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:14,800
If you, I don't know if you were
vibrating at the same frequency 

456
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,000
you were fine. 
If you vibrate at a different 

457
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,600
frequency, he would be defensive
and then look out. 

458
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,000
So yeah, but never a problem 
with Spike. 

459
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,300
Always just lovely, really? 
Actually, to be honest, leave us

460
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:34,300
some he was a massive fan. 
Messy was always promoting in 

461
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:36,500
the early 90s flywheel shyster 
and flywheel. 

462
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,400
Yeah, well, that was that was 
the that was the interesting one

463
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:47,800
because we I did a documentary 
about the Goon show in 1991 for 

464
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:54,000
the 40th anniversary called at 
last the go on show and And the 

465
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,500
research is Mike, poynton, sadly
no longer with us Michael point 

466
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:03,200
and just the nicest one of the 
nicest people on the planet and 

467
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:07,800
a fine trombonist, and also an 
authority on the comedy of the 

468
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,600
era. 
In fact, it was Michael, who, 

469
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:16,900
who took Max wall to lunch and 
Max died as they were leaving 

470
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:20,400
the restaurant which was 
terribly sad but, you know, that

471
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,400
was Mike. 
He was really To that sort of 

472
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,900
thing. 
I wanted to do a 40, I was 

473
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,800
desperate to do something about 
the Goon show desperate. 

474
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,700
And once I was in light 
entertainment and Spike was, you

475
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:34,400
know, in doing stuff, the 
Milligan papers was happening 

476
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,900
and usually it would be 
Jonathan, James Moore producing,

477
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:41,900
Jonathan who was was either head
of Department in or about to be.

478
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:46,700
And who was a huge friend to me 
as a producer in the department.

479
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:50,400
He really encouraged me because 
I was a very square peg in a 

480
00:28:50,408 --> 00:28:53,400
round hole, because my 
contemporaries were Amanda. 

481
00:28:53,400 --> 00:29:00,000
You knew she and David Tyler and
Lisa Evans and people who were 

482
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,500
doing really cutting edge, 
common in cutting-edge comedy, 

483
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:06,000
didn't interest me in the least.
I didn't want to do it. 

484
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,600
It didn't it didn't make me 
laugh. 

485
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:11,200
Well Amanda would have been 
doing what on the hour? 

486
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,800
And yeah, only own stuff like 
the exactly. 

487
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:17,300
Yeah, anyway, it was, you know, 
I mean it was obviously is a 

488
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:19,500
genius, you know, it's great. 
It just wasn't for me, didn't 

489
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:24,000
work for me. 
And I wanted to do, you know 

490
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,600
what I wanted to do? 
I wanted to do stuff with gags 

491
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,600
in. 
That's, that's the comedy. 

492
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,300
I like and the very first thing 
I was given was a thing called 

493
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:35,300
the long hot Satsuma, which was 
Barry Cryer. 

494
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:40,000
Barry, Cryer Grand Garden Pool. 
Be Davis where the writers and 

495
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:46,000
joined by Julia Hills and Alison
Steadman Allison. 

496
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:51,700
Yeah, that was and that was both
lovely and very scary because as

497
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:57,100
you know, my comedy Godfather's.
Thank God were Barry and Graham 

498
00:29:57,300 --> 00:30:03,300
and Paul, and and Barry kind of 
took me, led me by the hand. 

499
00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:07,400
It would typically bury into the
world of Comedy, right. 

500
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,000
Oh, you're into the main 
business of the day. 

501
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,000
I have a feeling the discussion 
may take more than just one 

502
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,700
meeting. 
So might I suggest we look at 

503
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,900
our Diaries and try to sort out 
a mutually convenient date to 

504
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,000
get together again. 
Rise. 

505
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,900
Can anyone make next Tuesday? 
No. 

506
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:27,800
Alright, Wednesday. 
Yep, yeah, that's fine. 

507
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:28,700
Good for me. 
Yep. 

508
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,500
Fine for me too. 
No, I'm sorry. 

509
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:31,400
It's Chaka. 
All right. 

510
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:39,500
Then Thursday, Friday. 
Next Monday then yeah? 

511
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:40,600
Yep. 
Yep. 

512
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,100
Yep. 
One morning or afternoon 

513
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:43,200
morning. 
No. 

514
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,800
But afternoon. 
No. 

515
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,400
Well, when can you back? 
I'm free to choose a after 

516
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,300
11:00. 
And One else make that yes. 

517
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,800
Fine by me. 
Okay, good. 

518
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,500
Well it's next Tuesday they do 
next Tuesday. 

519
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:57,700
No, sorry. 
I can't make that. 

520
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:00,900
Why did you say you could? 
And I'm sorry, I just turned 

521
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:04,000
over to pages, right? 
All right, the Tuesday after 

522
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,400
that. 
Yeah, yeah, not for me. 

523
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,900
It isn't why not? 
Well I'm meeting G. 

524
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,200
Oh yeah. 
Oh yeah. 

525
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:12,300
I'm sorry. 
I'm not free, then either. 

526
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:16,400
I'll just never forget how kind 
he was. 

527
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,900
And and, and yet at the same 
time, they would try and see 

528
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,100
what they could get away with. 
So Graham, I remember brought in

529
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:27,500
the script one week, which still
had the Tilt, the, the sort of 

530
00:31:27,508 --> 00:31:31,500
the visual directions in Forest 
a tele sketch. 

531
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,600
And I did, I did some of my 
character Graham. 

532
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,300
This does look a bit like a 
television sketch. 

533
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,900
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Didn't get made Dirk. 

534
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:45,200
So, you know, I'm sure gonna 
Translate That sort of thing. 

535
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,600
But but you know they they how 
how lucky guy could I have these

536
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,000
guys is my comedy Godfather's 
and of course, being burying 

537
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,700
Graham and Paul, it was a gag 
base thing and we had Julia and 

538
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:00,500
Alison. 
He's just a genius. 

539
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,200
So that was a wonderful start. 
And then everybody at that time,

540
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,200
when they came into light, n 
generally got one of two 

541
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,300
programs to care. 
Take that either got the news 

542
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:13,100
headlines or they got week 
ending. 

543
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,100
And I was praying, I got the 
news headlines because it was an

544
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:20,200
audience show week, ending, 
didn't interest me because I'd 

545
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,000
been to the sessions at the 
Paris and there was a lot of 

546
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,900
skill involved in it and so on. 
But again, it wasn't gag based. 

547
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:29,500
Whereas with an audience in the 
room you've got to make them 

548
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:32,600
laugh. 
And so in 88, I took over the 

549
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,400
news headlines and with Roy 
Hudd, Chris Emmett, and June 

550
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,000
Whitfield. 
And this was at the Paris 

551
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,800
Studio, where As We Know, The 
goons recorded and everybody 

552
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,200
recording The Beatles. 
Recorded Led Zeppelin, Glenn 

553
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,300
Miller's Army Band everybody and
all those, you know, round the 

554
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:57,700
horn. 
So it was really taking the 

555
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:00,200
reins of a kind of Rolls-Royce 
comedy machine. 

556
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,700
As far as I was concerned and at
the same time, learning the hard

557
00:33:03,700 --> 00:33:10,700
way that making comedy, it was a
real Challenge and on my third 

558
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:12,400
or fourth week, I don't know. 
It's weird. 

559
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:13,400
You know what? 
I haven't. 

560
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,400
The dates on this. 
And I'm really going to have to 

561
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,000
because I've got all my 
digitized all my headlines, but 

562
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,600
it was a couple of weeks before 
Thatcher resigned, Roy took me 

563
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:31,200
as I know that October. 
November 1990, think 8989, I 

564
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,800
don't know, they know. 
Anyway. 

565
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:37,400
Yeah she she resigned but notice
this was about a week before. 

566
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,700
Android took his side and Roy 
have very poor eyesight. 

567
00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:43,400
So when he spoke to you, we kind
of got right in your face. 

568
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,400
They said, oh, Dirk is so it's 
not working it and I've done 

569
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,200
about maybe six shows, I don't 
know. 

570
00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:53,000
And I saw that. 
Oh my God, you know, the bottom 

571
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,000
dropped out of my world. 
It wasn't working and because 

572
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,800
Roy was the nicest person in the
world and it was always a joy to

573
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,400
work with him because he just 
wanted you to be happy and the 

574
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,700
audience to be happy and 
everything. 

575
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,800
So when you know kind of this, 
this thing happened and he said 

576
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,400
it's not working and I said, oh 
really isn't it funny enough? 

577
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:17,500
I said, well, it's not, it's not
their aunt gags, he said, but 

578
00:34:17,900 --> 00:34:23,600
the gags don't do anything. 
And I said in what way? 

579
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,800
And he said, well, you know, you
can have lots and lots of comic 

580
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,900
Cuts, but unless it's got a 
thread through it people, it 

581
00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:34,199
doesn't work as well as it 
could. 

582
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,699
And I want to weigh in and 
looked at, you know, the script 

583
00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:41,900
we the show, we've done that 
week and made the best job I 

584
00:34:41,908 --> 00:34:44,900
could have its own, but I 
realized He meant was it context

585
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:47,300
unique context? 
Even if it's a sketch show 

586
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,199
you've got to have context and 
you've got to have the through 

587
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,400
line with everything. 
We're in a sketch you know you 

588
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,600
you signal where you're going to
go and then you go there. 

589
00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:00,000
It's kind of the rule of good 
storytelling show. 

590
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:03,500
Yeah you tell the audience what 
you're going to do and then you 

591
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:07,300
go and do it and and that sounds
simple to do. 

592
00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:10,400
You actually try and then if you
add to that you've got to make 

593
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,300
them laugh and surprise them on 
the way you know that. 

594
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:15,400
That was what he was saying 
effectively. 

595
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:19,800
So I had like a show or two to 
try and get my act together. 

596
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,500
And I was really on tenterhooks 
because I thought this is going 

597
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,600
to get me thrown out because I 
was only on contract. 

598
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,900
You know, we it wasn't a staff 
job, being a light, em producer.

599
00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:33,700
And then one week, I went down 
to the Paris Studio wall down 

600
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:38,300
from Piccadilly, Circus station 
with me, program boxing only 

601
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:42,700
bits in and Maureen. 
My lovely PA was came by taxi. 

602
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:44,300
She had the I'm box beg your 
pardon. 

603
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:48,100
I came just with my scope and 
that last walk down Regent 

604
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:51,000
Street. 
You know, became I've always 

605
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,900
said to my wife that if I, if I 
die and there's an afterlife and

606
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:58,400
it's a good one. 
I'll find myself walking down, 

607
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,500
lower Regent Street, looking to 
produce a HUD lines. 

608
00:36:02,500 --> 00:36:05,800
Because, you know, it was this 
Buzz of just doing a show that, 

609
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,700
you know, is going to entertain 
people. 

610
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:10,200
Yeah. 
With people, like draw and June 

611
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,200
Whitfield, you know, he's lovely
and Chris is brilliant. 

612
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,400
Anyway got there, and I'll like 
opinion. 

613
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,900
One of the writers was out on 
the pavement having a smoke and 

614
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:22,600
in those that you could smoke 
inside the building. 

615
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,000
So it wasn't like we doing him. 
So I like having all right 

616
00:36:27,100 --> 00:36:29,500
there, fire drill. 
No, he said, have you not seen 

617
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:33,800
the news? 
No, that just resign shit. 

618
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:38,900
And I had this, you know, had 
these scripts and you know that 

619
00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:42,600
40 pages of the satire based on 
the back. 

620
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,800
There's exactly Estill Broman. 
Well not quite but a good you 

621
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,000
know, a good 40 percent of the 
script. 

622
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:53,200
Mmm, so anyway we just toss it 
out and the thing about 

623
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,100
headlines was that the writers 
would always come down to the 

624
00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:59,200
performance to see if there's 
their sketches got laughs, and 

625
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,300
to make sure they got a credit 
and all of that. 

626
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:06,800
And so we rewrote, you know, 
half the show that morning with 

627
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,500
the audience queuing up outside 
and the audience came in on 

628
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:11,800
cited and we did the show. 
But the thing about it was 

629
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:16,500
because we had To feature this 
thing that happened, it gave 

630
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:19,700
context to the jokes and I just 
suddenly something switched in 

631
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:22,400
my head and I could see what Roy
meant and I could see how it 

632
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,700
worked and after that everything
worked fine. 

633
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,900
So it was a really good 
education in, you know, comedy 

634
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:33,000
having to have context, let's 
reel. 

635
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,100
Seat of the pants stuff as well 
having to attacks. 

636
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:39,800
Yeah, so okay. 
So you mentioned you've already 

637
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,300
mentioned it last to go on show 
9 1991 was the 40th anniversary.

638
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,800
Three of the first goon show and
there was a lot of Celebration 

639
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,000
and commemoration and yeah, 
Chief among that was, this was 

640
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,800
this epic documentary which was 
I must have. 

641
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:00,900
I mean obviously I taped at the 
time and I must have just worn 

642
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:03,100
it out. 
Just listening and listening 

643
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:07,000
over and over again. 
And it was superb because the 

644
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,200
people that you got and the 
choice of clips and just 

645
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,300
everything worked. 
So how did how did that all come

646
00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:14,700
about? 
Well, I knew I wanted to do 

647
00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:16,700
something. 
I was in light entertainment. 

648
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:18,900
I was working at the Paris. 
I was working with people like 

649
00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:23,200
Roy, June and Chris Spike was 
coming in doing his thing. 

650
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,500
Stephen Fry, Emma Tom everybody 
was you know in at that time it 

651
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:32,800
was in her late 80s, early 90s. 
It was quite a feat, kund time, 

652
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:37,600
nor Raider light entertainment 
and and I wanted to work with do

653
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,700
something in traditional comedy.
And, you know, it became clear 

654
00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:44,100
that, you know, it was the the 
anniversary Coming up for the 

655
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:50,500
40th anniversary of the goons so
I pitched it and I'm pretty sure

656
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:54,100
I can't honestly remember, you 
know, it could be Mike point in 

657
00:38:54,100 --> 00:38:57,900
came to me knowing I was keen on
the goons or whatever it was but

658
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,900
certainly we got the commission 
to do an hour-long documentary 

659
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,800
and I just wanted to make it 
absolutely as good as I could 

660
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,900
get it as good as the goons used
to be. 

661
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:14,600
That's what I wanted it to be 
and my It was great. 

662
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,000
That's um, you know, thinking of
angles, we could do and so on. 

663
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,600
And then, first order of 
business was, is get interviews 

664
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,600
with Spike and with Harry. 
And well, obviously not with 

665
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,400
Peter, but with Michael, but the
other thing was to get someone 

666
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,700
who really could get their hands
on the really good stuff and 

667
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:35,900
that's when Ted Kendall came 
into the picture. 

668
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,700
Sure. 
And Ted, is the person whose 

669
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:41,700
restored all the CD releases of 
the gun shows. 

670
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:43,700
And what he doesn't know about 
the goons is, Ain't worth 

671
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:46,800
knowing and you know, 
technically he's just done this 

672
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,100
amazing job on them and and so 
Ted became part of the there 

673
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:53,200
were the three of us kind of 
working on it. 

674
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:56,600
And so I could say to Ted, 
what's the most outrageous 

675
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,100
effect sequence in the goons? 
And he'd say well which one of 

676
00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:04,900
the 20 I can think of she wants 
to use you and so we would be 

677
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:08,300
the answer the door, you know, 
after this huge sequence of 

678
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:11,200
really Bonkers of AIDS or 
whatever it was and also what 

679
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,300
time is it Eccles? 
You know what? 

680
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,700
Is the most perfect example of a
goon a section for going to show

681
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:20,000
you that's pretty hard to beat 
as you know. 

682
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,400
So perfect, almost perfect. 
So you know that that was Ted 

683
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,100
brought all this to the thing 
and because he was at that time 

684
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,400
doing the cleanups, he had all 
the shows and you could give me 

685
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,500
clean up things and we spent a 
long time, looking for the 

686
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:38,200
whoosh, the perfect gun show, 
whoosh and right? 

687
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:40,900
Yeah, you know because there was
a worse, but it's always got 

688
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:45,000
lots of surface noise on it 
because the Record the 78% Knack

689
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,700
at that they used and I actually
found a clean goon show was but 

690
00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:50,700
we could never work out. 
We thought we'd have to do it. 

691
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:52,800
We were trying to figure out 
how, what is that, is that? 

692
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,200
Is that a cable? 
Bring washed part of my core, is

693
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,100
it sounds a bit like a roller 
skate? 

694
00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:01,200
You know, we were trying so is 
the things together. 

695
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,200
Wash back. 
It's a bit like Milligan. 

696
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,600
Trendy the sock full of custard,
you know, sure. 

697
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,600
Yeah, literally do what you 
hear. 

698
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,200
See if that works anyway. 
And then Mike point in and I 

699
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,000
went down to spikes house in Rye
to dumb woman's Lane where Spike

700
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,100
lived and Carpenters Meadow was 
the house, but there was a 

701
00:41:23,107 --> 00:41:27,600
plaque underneath this Spike 
foot saying, built by the blind 

702
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:33,100
architect, he wasn't very 
impressed with and Shelia 

703
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:37,800
spikes. 
Third wife, let us say in and 

704
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,600
went through to West Bank with 
in the living room. 

705
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,800
Why put up and, you know, put a 
mic up right in his face. 

706
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,300
He said, do I really need to 
have this? 

707
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:46,200
I said, yes. 
Yes, you really do you really do

708
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,200
and Rick that and a little 
cassette or is it that note 

709
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,200
cassette recorder but a good 
one, professional. 

710
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,700
And and we sat with Spike and we
talked for about three hours 

711
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,100
during which occasionally, you 
know, tea and Cake would appear 

712
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,200
from Sheila. 
And afterward spike said he 

713
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,600
never talked so much about the 
gun show. 

714
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,800
Ever my personality made me want
to write a better one each time 

715
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,400
and I almost succeeded in doing 
that actually improving the 

716
00:42:20,408 --> 00:42:24,300
quality of the shows. 
It was sort of strange, 

717
00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:27,000
Insanity. 
It was my place in heaven. 

718
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,500
I was trying to fight for its or
was I couldn't stop it. 

719
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:32,600
You know, there's nothing I 
could do with, I had to write 

720
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,600
it. 
Like I was preordained and he 

721
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:41,200
was you know, great and Mike. 
was good because Mike can ask It

722
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,500
was good, we sort of tag-teamed.
So if I was asking something 

723
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:47,800
might would think up a different
question or or spite would say 

724
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,500
something and he would might 
could come in from another 

725
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,000
angle, you know, or talk about 
music, you know, because might 

726
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,200
being a trombonist sniping a 
Trumpeter, you know. 

727
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,100
So we kind of kept it light and 
that was great. 

728
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:07,100
So it was very, very good. 
And so spite talked a lot about 

729
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:11,600
things and he told me and he 
said, You know how much he loved

730
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,000
flywheel? 
He said, I'd give my left arm to

731
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,600
be in your flywheel program and 
I said, we'd have to give any 

732
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:23,200
limbs just come and do it. 
So that was, you know, that was 

733
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,500
kind of like, right? 
Definitely got its. 

734
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,000
And I said, well, while we're 
talking, would you consider ever

735
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,300
doing something about the goons,
like we did with flywheel? 

736
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,100
And he said, I don't know, he 
said I, you know, I haven't got 

737
00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:40,000
that, you had a Reeve anymore 
and of course we haven't got 

738
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,400
Pete. 
And, you know, and I said, well,

739
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,300
how about if we got you and 
Harry and Michael and did some 

740
00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:46,700
of the early stuff? 
He said, I don't know, I don't 

741
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:49,700
know. 
You know, he was, I didn't want 

742
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:52,000
to push him because they didn't 
want to get out of his comfort 

743
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,000
zone, but at the same time, I 
was sort of interested. 

744
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,100
It was basically, my idea was 
what became goon again, okay? 

745
00:43:58,100 --> 00:43:59,000
Right. 
Right. 

746
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,900
Right. 
That I was seeing if he wanted 

747
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:02,200
to try that. 
Yeah. 

748
00:44:03,100 --> 00:44:07,700
So so we did that. 
And the thing was, we also had 

749
00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:13,100
these interviews with Harry and 
with Michael And Harry was that,

750
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:17,200
you know, lovely because we I 
went down to him his house with 

751
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:23,100
you know in Surrey and and Maya 
are answered the door and come 

752
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:25,500
in, come in, come in and it was 
just like being with your 

753
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:29,700
favorite aunt and uncle, they 
were just absolutely lovely Down

754
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:32,700
to Earth. 
Take you as they find you, love 

755
00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:35,900
you for yourself unconditionally
nice people. 

756
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:42,000
And, and it was so easy. 
Chat with and Harry was great 

757
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,100
because I think probably that's 
the thing he filled in a lot of 

758
00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:50,500
the gaps that Spike unless and 
and you know Harry said oh look 

759
00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:53,500
you know here's photo got the 
photo of Matt hears us with 

760
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:58,200
Prince Charles, he is this, he 
is that something and that was 

761
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:03,700
so kind of warm and friendly. 
And then Michael, we got in 

762
00:45:03,700 --> 00:45:05,900
touch with now, Michael is 
working with one of my fellow 

763
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:09,600
producers, Andy a list, he had a
show going on Radio 2 or 

764
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,800
something. 
So he's in and out of light 

765
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,500
enter lat, very good show, 
bother me. 

766
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,200
Yeah. 
Well, it's Michael, isn't it? 

767
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,500
I mean, you know, Michael was a 
genius in his own way, was me. 

768
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,600
Yeah. 
Anyway, Michael was lovely. 

769
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:30,000
Tara ahead and do an interview 
and he said, absolutely. 

770
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,900
And so I booked the Paris for an
interview with Mike because in 

771
00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:37,500
those days we didn't need to we 
didn't need to pay for our 

772
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:39,500
bookings. 
So I thought the whole of Paris 

773
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:42,900
just sit down Michael benteen, I
thought putting some where he 

774
00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:47,200
knew, you know, so we were on 
the stage of the Paris, huge 

775
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,000
barriers. 
And there's just me and Michael 

776
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,100
and my pointing and we're 
talking to a matter and it was 

777
00:45:53,100 --> 00:45:57,600
really a great conversation. 
And again, you know, he would he

778
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,300
would reenact bits of osric, 
pure heart, you know? 

779
00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:05,100
And then we had and then the, 
the joke was, we had six steam 

780
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,100
trains, all the same time. 
We would do all the sound 

781
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:10,300
effects everything. 
Yeah, it was just so lovely. 

782
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,200
Lovely. 
I mean they were just like 

783
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,100
favorite uncle's. 
Sprite was like the edgy Uncle 

784
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:17,700
Harry is like the uncle. 
You go to will be all troubles. 

785
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:20,600
And Michael be the uncle you 
went to just to entertain you 

786
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,400
because they were just so 
sparking off, brilliant. 

787
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,800
And and we had this fantastic 
interview with with Mike. 

788
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,900
And so, you know, we had so we 
got, we got benteen Milligan. 

789
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:35,700
We've got Harry. 
I went to interview, Angela 

790
00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:38,400
Morley. 
Who was what he start? 

791
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,100
Yeah. 
Met Angela. 

792
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,500
A great interview with her and 
she was fabulous. 

793
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:47,600
Brilliant memories of the music 
because it's such a big part of 

794
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,100
it and you know talking about 
poggi pogs in the sax players on

795
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,200
things that only the band would 
know kind of thing. 

796
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,900
You know, and and very 
interesting. 

797
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,100
My job was to write cues for the
program, whatever Spike wanted. 

798
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:06,200
And to write this arrangement 
for Max geldray every week. 

799
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,700
And so, I did that for about two
years. 

800
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,400
Then one day slander. 
Black Santa didn't want to do it

801
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,600
anymore. 
So I got that opportunity to the

802
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:25,000
links between why, like 
Hollywood epics and couldn't get

803
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,700
Max girls. 
Great Gilder, he was in the 

804
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:30,300
states, didn't get Ray, I don't 
know why, don't know why, right?

805
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,300
But, but that was enough. 
I had an embarrassment of 

806
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:35,900
riches. 
And so I took all of the 

807
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:41,200
interviews and I took all of the
clips that Ted Given me. 

808
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,500
And I went into this is, I did 
this twice and both times, it 

809
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:50,800
was a kind of interesting, kind 
of a damascene moment where I 

810
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,600
was in this h58. 
I think it was this channel 

811
00:47:54,900 --> 00:47:57,900
where it was just take machines 
on the desk in broadcasting 

812
00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:01,200
house, no actual Studio, but 
that's where you glued together 

813
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:06,000
programs. 
And the first, the first 

814
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,400
damascene moment was doing the 
Superman on trial thing where I 

815
00:48:09,408 --> 00:48:11,600
took the whole thing. 
Away from the studio managers. 

816
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,900
Because now, I wasn't 
technically supposed to edit but

817
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:17,100
I said, do you mind if I edit 
this and I took it away, mixed 

818
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:18,800
it myself. 
And while I mixed it myself, I 

819
00:48:18,808 --> 00:48:23,000
realized I could make a radio 
drama sound more like a film. 

820
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,600
Then a radio Drama by adding 
music and sound effects, but 

821
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,400
really layering up and while 
doing it thinking, oh my God, 

822
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:36,700
yes, this works. 
But oh my God, what a bloody rod

823
00:48:36,700 --> 00:48:39,100
for your own back? 
It is to make stuff this way. 

824
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:42,500
But, you know, so, And then 
ended up spending my life doing 

825
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:44,600
it. 
But the other one was this goon 

826
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,200
show because I took all this 
stuff up and it really was in 

827
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,800
pieces. 
I think I'd done. 

828
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,900
So, a little bit of editing in 
the office, on my Reeboks, but 

829
00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:55,500
this was really, I had to turn 
out and I had till the morning. 

830
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:59,100
Basically, I said to Les Lesley,
my wife, I won't be home 

831
00:48:59,100 --> 00:49:01,500
tonight. 
Love them kind of be editing 

832
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,400
this damn thing together because
I need to break the back of it. 

833
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,800
And so, I was there for about 10
hours or more 12 hours maybe 

834
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:10,200
from about. 
Yeah, from about 6:00 at night, 

835
00:49:10,300 --> 00:49:14,900
Till six in the morning and I 
cut it together and and and it 

836
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:17,300
was just one of those things 
where you've got a job and when 

837
00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:21,000
you get in the zone you don't 
want to get out of it because it

838
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:25,100
becomes like a piece of music in
your head, you can see where you

839
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:28,100
need to go to next. 
So you do that, bit of if I do 

840
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:30,900
this. 
But here, that bit by Harry cuts

841
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:35,400
into this bit of the World War 
Two show, which then if I pick 

842
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,700
up with Angela, talking about 
the music would lead to this 

843
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:40,800
thing by Michael bent. 
About. 

844
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,700
And so it I was really two 
things happened at the end of 

845
00:49:45,700 --> 00:49:48,700
that. 
I had 58 minute documentary 

846
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:51,200
about the goons that was 
inordinately proud of. 

847
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,700
That was the first thing. 
Then, the second thing that 

848
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:56,900
happened was that I knew I would
never ever, ever do a 

849
00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:59,500
documentary. 
Again, if I could possibly help 

850
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:03,200
it because there would be 
nothing else I would ever want 

851
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,100
to make a documentary about 
because this was my love letter 

852
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:07,600
to the goons. 
Yeah. 

853
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,800
And that's it. 
You know, that was it apart from

854
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,300
the Beatles? 
And there was ilion's of 

855
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:17,400
documentaries about the Beatles 
but you know, so that was my, 

856
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,100
that's that won't that my two 
big takeaways from, it were 

857
00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:27,300
that's it and that's it. 
I love the way it was. 

858
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,100
It was like a 58 minute goon 
show in the sense where you've 

859
00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:34,100
already said it, referred to 
that, but it had a break for Max

860
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:37,800
geldray - breakthrough 
Harrington and it actually had a

861
00:50:37,900 --> 00:50:42,900
payoff at the end. 
So is It was incredibly well put

862
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:47,100
together and structured, it was 
inspired by them you know it was

863
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:51,200
inspired by the best of what 
they did, you know, that was the

864
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,200
thing. 
So in a way the gags it was 

865
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,800
timing out the gag. 
So that every time, you know, it

866
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,000
just as you got to the end of 
everything, you needed to say 

867
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,600
about something, something else 
picked up, the followed 

868
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,900
naturally. 
I had one more one, more, two 

869
00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:13,900
more, Encounters with Spike in 
the intervening 10-year, period,

870
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:17,600
the with the year, after we did 
goon, you really enjoyed the 

871
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,400
documentary. 
I've got a nice note from Norma,

872
00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:24,400
but then at the end of the 
following year, Richard need is 

873
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,500
one of the other producers, 
enlightened, who tended to be in

874
00:51:27,500 --> 00:51:30,700
charge of doing getting reruns 
of stuff out there like gun 

875
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:36,400
shows and so on somehow, I got 
deputed, the job and and the the

876
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,700
case needed to be made to Radio 
2 or radio Fork. 

877
00:51:39,700 --> 00:51:43,100
I think that's To that goon 
shows should be repeated. 

878
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:48,500
And so I enlisted, Ted candles 
help and went to radio to and 

879
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:51,800
said, look, I can get these. 
Not only can we repeat them but 

880
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,800
we can repeat the restored, you 
know version, I remember. 

881
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,600
Yeah. 
And and and they said yes, and 

882
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,400
so we got it on the air. 
And I got a lovely letter from 

883
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,400
Spike, which I have on my office
wall here which says, you know, 

884
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,000
my did can't believe it's you. 
I have to thank for getting the 

885
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,600
gun show and thank God you. 
Were there. 

886
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,800
I don't think anyone else would 
have thought of it, which, of 

887
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,900
course they would. 
So it doesn't negate the fact 

888
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:20,200
that it's, and it's a lovely 
letter from Spike. 

889
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,000
I think it's signed by Janet, 
not by spiked by the by the, by 

890
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,700
Norma's PA, but yeah, fact is, 
it's still, I know it was a 

891
00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:30,500
bike. 
So that was that. 

892
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:34,500
And then, at the end of the 
decade in 1999, I was asked by 

893
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:37,200
radio for to put together a sort
of sound collage. 

894
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,100
Looking forward to the next 
millennium in their innocence. 

895
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,800
And and I and I got lots of 
celebs to say things. 

896
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,700
So, I went down to Carpenters 
Meadow again in done woman's 

897
00:52:49,700 --> 00:52:54,700
Lane to spike, and I recorded 
him doing a sort of Millennium 

898
00:52:54,700 --> 00:52:57,400
greeting, which was, you know, 
rather sweet and nice. 

899
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,000
And he gave me a bottle of wine 
for, you know, just sort of 

900
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,400
thank me for, you know, the 
documentary and the flywheels 

901
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,000
and this that and the other. 
And also for the Millennium and 

902
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,900
I still keep it. 
I have a note Open it never 

903
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:11,800
opened it. 
Coolly. 

904
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,800
It's the Australian red. 
He had quite a sizeable seller. 

905
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,800
He did his bike. 
Yeah, it did. 

906
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,300
And it's covered in dust and I 
think some of that dust must be 

907
00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:23,400
Spike, so I put it in a box. 
Precious Precious. 

908
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,600
Yeah. 
If I can, I can clone him if 

909
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,000
only dinosaurs didn't get in the
way. 

910
00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:31,700
So donkey ones. 
Yes, yeah. 

911
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:36,300
I'll go there together. 
So, you know, so we kind of 

912
00:53:36,300 --> 00:53:37,800
stayed in touch in a kind of a 
way. 

913
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,600
Anyway, can One fiftieth 
anniversary and I'm sort of 

914
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,000
thinking do I want to do? 
You know, because I do walk away

915
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,200
from projects thinking? 
Yeah, that's enough of that now.

916
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:53,300
But I just thought we never did 
that thing that you know that 

917
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:56,600
that flywheel goon show in the 
style of flywheel time thing. 

918
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,100
Hmm. 
And of course by then it's ten 

919
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:00,800
years later and spiking hairier 
nearing. 

920
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,600
The end of their lives and of 
course, Michael died by that. 

921
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:09,200
I think yes. 
But I was a bit ambivalent about

922
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,600
doing it and this is a A story 
that I've only told Dan 

923
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:18,400
Schreiber, I think the other day
when I saw him but who does the 

924
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,400
fish body this year? 
What? 

925
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,300
Yeah, such thing as a fish knows
that you. 

926
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,800
But anyway, I'm when I 
interviewed, you know, I said to

927
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,500
spike when we did the interview 
for that last It Go on show. 

928
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:35,800
I said, how about doing a goon 
show like we did flywheel and 

929
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,200
would you come aboard? 
And he said I don't think don't 

930
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:40,800
think I've got the Esprit de For
anymore. 

931
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,200
So hmm. 
So I kind of left it, I thought 

932
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,300
well I'll come back. 
You know, time and I said it to 

933
00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:47,000
Harry and Harry said, I'll do 
it. 

934
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,400
I'll do it said Harry. 
I'd love to. 

935
00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:52,100
Hmm. 
So, you know, one out of three 

936
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:56,400
or four and then Michael benteen
we did the interview in the 

937
00:54:56,500 --> 00:55:00,100
Paris about the goons. 
And then at the end, I said, by 

938
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:02,800
the way, Michael, I've been 
thinking, you know, would be 

939
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,500
possible maybe to resurrect some
of the early stuff that really 

940
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:08,500
has been lost. 
And this was before some of the 

941
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:13,400
tapes turned up, I should add 
And you know would you be 

942
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,200
interested in cake taking our 
it's hard? 

943
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:16,400
I don't know. 
I don't know. 

944
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,100
I'd love to see the guys you 
know. 

945
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,200
He said, let me think about 
leaving. 

946
00:55:21,300 --> 00:55:23,100
Let me think about it. 
So, you know. 

947
00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:25,900
Okay, fine anyway. 
But a week later the phone rang 

948
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,100
is Maureen. 
Got it my PA and she said, it's 

949
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:31,300
Michael benteen. 
Do you want us to teach it as if

950
00:55:31,300 --> 00:55:32,500
yes? 
To course, like it. 

951
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:40,100
So he handed a cross. 
Yeah, it's Mike Banting and he 

952
00:55:40,100 --> 00:55:43,900
said, look, I've been thinking 
about this idea of yours and 

953
00:55:44,100 --> 00:55:48,900
I've actually had a word with 
Peter about it and really 

954
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,100
doesn't want it to happen. 
Okay? 

955
00:55:54,500 --> 00:56:00,000
And as you know by then Peter 
had been dead for 13 years. 

956
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,600
Yeah. 
Hmm 12 you anyway and because I 

957
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:08,900
respected Michael very much and 
I respected his beliefs you 

958
00:56:08,900 --> 00:56:13,400
know, in this sort of thing I 
said, okay, okay. 

959
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,100
Well thank you Michael, thank 
you for thinking about it. 

960
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:17,700
Put the phone down. 
I thought holy smoke. 

961
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:21,700
Well, if Peter doesn't want us 
to do it, perhaps we shouldn't 

962
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,500
he interesting. 
You say that he's not I know 

963
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,500
might was into yeah, that sort 
of thing also. 

964
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:33,800
So, was sellers, I mean, salads 
used to used to claim that he 

965
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,000
would communicate. 
With the late Larry Stevens. 

966
00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:37,700
Oh, really? 
Yeah. 

967
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,000
Okay. 
I thought was Dan lean. 

968
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,900
Oh well, that is depending on 
what sort of Moody was in. 

969
00:56:44,100 --> 00:56:46,600
Yeah. 
Larry and down. 

970
00:56:47,500 --> 00:56:51,900
Well, look, you know, the thing 
was nothing was going to happen 

971
00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:54,200
at that time. 
Anyway, I was busy with flywheel

972
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,600
and doing other stuff, so it, 
you know, it kind of went away. 

973
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,600
But nine years later, when we 
came back to a 50th Anniversary 

974
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:07,100
show, I knew spike in Harry 
wouldn't do it and Michael 

975
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:13,400
didn't want to but at the same 
time I thought you know what, 

976
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:21,100
it'd be great to try. 
And so I went to Angela Morley 

977
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,600
and I said because the one thing
I knew was the music is the key.

978
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,200
Part of a goon show, you don't 
know that until you work with 

979
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,400
it. 
But the music is Sets up this 

980
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,000
Lush frame in which anything can
then happen. 

981
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,900
So went to Angela at Abbey Road 
to okay, because she was doing a

982
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:45,400
bank you, that's right. 
So went down all those stairs in

983
00:57:45,408 --> 00:57:49,200
the control room, and I'm just 
freaking out my God, Angela 

984
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,100
Molly Beatles. 
And, and she said, hi and we 

985
00:57:54,107 --> 00:57:56,100
chatted. 
And I said, look, I'm going to 

986
00:57:56,100 --> 00:58:00,600
put a gun show together. 
I think if I could, if I can get

987
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:03,600
backing, would you do it? 
And she said, well, I'm just on 

988
00:58:03,607 --> 00:58:06,100
my way back to Palm Springs 
where she live. 

989
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,100
She said. 
But how about you talk to a guy 

990
00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:12,100
called John Wilson? 
I've said Jose and she's always 

991
00:58:12,100 --> 00:58:15,600
a Geordie, is a Geordie musical 
director and he's really into 

992
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,800
what I do, and I've never heard 
of John at that point. 

993
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,000
So I just said, okay, could you 
give me the phone number? 

994
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,000
And she said sure, you know, and
she emailed a little whatever. 

995
00:58:24,700 --> 00:58:28,800
Anyway, got me into Abbey Road 
to I didn't mind. 

996
00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:32,800
I knew I could compile the 
scripts that wasn't a problem. 

997
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,900
I went into BBC archives. 
I got all of the I think first 

998
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:40,900
three series of the Goon show 
the crazy people stuff. 

999
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,400
Yeah. 
Because what I wanted to do is 

1000
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:44,000
try and do something that hadn't
been hurt. 

1001
00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:46,500
That was the in the end we did 
something that had been heard 

1002
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:50,300
over and over but you know 
that's the name of the game then

1003
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:53,000
I had to pitch it so I went to 
see Jim Moore who was 

1004
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,500
controlling radio to at that 
time and Jim was X television 

1005
00:58:56,500 --> 00:59:02,000
light entertainment very Tough, 
very capable guy who didn't 

1006
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,700
suffer fools gladly and I walked
into the office and Leslie, 

1007
00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:11,900
Douglas who became control after
him was actually, when I was 

1008
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:17,700
working back in the day in radio
to presentation my PA so Leslie 

1009
00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:20,700
was now his assistant, so it's 
pretty easy to get in to see him

1010
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,100
and he said, what do you got 
younger? 

1011
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:25,400
What have you got? 
And I said, I want to do gun 

1012
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:30,900
show, Jim full, Orchestra, the 
lat The playhouse and I don't 

1013
00:59:30,900 --> 00:59:33,200
think I can get spike in Harry, 
but if I got you, an A-list 

1014
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,500
cast, would you do it? 
I think I can get Andy seek, and

1015
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:43,100
who's his father, son, and Jim 
sadly from it. 

1016
00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:44,600
He said, how much do you think 
it's going to cost them? 

1017
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:50,800
I said double head 16 Grand 
which in those days was you know

1018
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,200
Fair bit of money. 
Hmm and he said it's that the 

1019
00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:01,600
Fermi said don't fuck it up. 
Those were the days. 

1020
01:00:01,900 --> 01:00:05,700
Yeah. 
So and I'd already run Andy 

1021
01:00:05,700 --> 01:00:08,800
seeking, I knew I needed 
somebody and Andy would be my 

1022
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:13,500
best bet and Andy, I'd not 
actually met in the past, but 

1023
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:16,300
he, you know, he'd been friends 
with friends of mine. 

1024
01:00:16,300 --> 01:00:20,000
So got in touch with him and he 
was a little bit kind of II. 

1025
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,200
What we got here? 
When I rang kind of another You 

1026
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:29,300
know, a bit wary, you know, we 
say, yeah, overzealous fans. 

1027
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,200
And I showed him, you know, I 
had I had form and I knew his 

1028
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:37,300
dad and all of that and and he 
said, yeah, okay, let me think 

1029
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:39,400
about it. 
So I could and I was pretty 

1030
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,600
sure. 
I could getting, you're not 

1031
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,300
going to take you down. 
To tell me that he found you a 

1032
01:00:43,308 --> 01:00:44,500
week later. 
It's either been talking to 

1033
01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:47,500
Peter. 
No ha ha, wouldn't that be 

1034
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:51,400
great? 
He did talk to his dad though. 

1035
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,900
Hmm and Harry said think of it 
His carrying on the family 

1036
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:57,200
business, which I thought was 
lovely. 

1037
01:00:57,300 --> 01:01:00,900
Yeah, yeah. 
So so I had. 

1038
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,000
Yeah. 
And he was in and so I had, so 

1039
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:09,400
I'm writing John Wilson and 
said, look, you know, doing a 

1040
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,000
gun show with with, with Wally 
stock cubes and, you know, would

1041
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,100
you be up for it? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1042
01:01:16,100 --> 01:01:21,400
He was really keen and, and he 
said, there's so much to tell 

1043
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,300
you on this Tyler. 
That's why I'm Enough humming 

1044
01:01:24,300 --> 01:01:28,100
urgh is, this is a huge thing in
my life for me to have done this

1045
01:01:28,100 --> 01:01:32,200
show even now. 
After all the other things, this

1046
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,700
still stands out as being a 
magical, little thing and I 

1047
01:01:36,700 --> 01:01:38,700
would drop everything. 
Now, if somebody said you could 

1048
01:01:38,700 --> 01:01:44,000
do the show again tomorrow 
because we were assembling it 

1049
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,200
was like redoing the Manhattan 
Project. 

1050
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,700
But instead of a lethal weapon 
that would kill Millions, it was

1051
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,900
a joyful weapon that would 
Delight. light and surprised 

1052
01:01:54,900 --> 01:02:00,800
millions that was the different,
but it was like a sort of 

1053
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,100
Chemical experiment. 
It was like cooking a delicious 

1054
01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:07,400
meal. 
You had to get the ingredients 

1055
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,800
at just the right temperatures 
in just the right amounts to 

1056
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:16,300
make it really work. 
And so I'd got John, we needed 

1057
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:20,900
to get the music, John didn't 
have the actual sheets and 

1058
01:02:21,500 --> 01:02:26,700
Angela hadn't held onto them. 
So we had to go into the BBC 

1059
01:02:26,700 --> 01:02:29,700
music library, which at that 
time I think was in Henry wood 

1060
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:35,000
house in the basement. 
By broadcasting house and we had

1061
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,000
it was a bit like a sort of 
library system. 

1062
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,000
It was like a Dewey Decimal 
System where you found what you 

1063
01:02:40,008 --> 01:02:43,900
were looking for by going 
through kind of like rose 68 

1064
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:49,300
shelf, 22 thingamajig goon show 
cues and we had no idea what we 

1065
01:02:49,300 --> 01:02:54,000
were going to find at all and 
what we found was a stack of 

1066
01:02:54,100 --> 01:02:58,900
Music. 
Manuscript about a foot high, on

1067
01:02:58,900 --> 01:03:04,700
a bottom shelf in. 
Very damp part of the basement, 

1068
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,600
right? 
And picked it up and it was 

1069
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:13,100
damp, if not wet. 
And inside all the, it's all 

1070
01:03:13,100 --> 01:03:15,700
handwritten. 
It's all the band cues the, the 

1071
01:03:15,700 --> 01:03:18,300
conductor sheets Angelo's 
conductor she? 

1072
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:23,600
Yeah, she was worried start with
fading but I mean like in very, 

1073
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,000
very faint Brown markings on a 
ston. 

1074
01:03:27,100 --> 01:03:31,600
Stay virile paper. 
And I said, we've got to get 

1075
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,400
these out of here because there 
was some sort of rule about not 

1076
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,600
taking stuff out and so we could
just put them under our coats, 

1077
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:45,400
John Wilson and snuck out of the
every Woodhouse and I said, John

1078
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,700
what we're going to do is they 
don't worry I can't do the 

1079
01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:50,100
Geordie accent, is that? 
I'll get them transcribed. 

1080
01:03:50,100 --> 01:03:55,100
So oh this carry a bag full of 
Music manuscript. 

1081
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,800
And in the meantime we booked 
the playhouse And this was 

1082
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,300
actually being done through 
Cellar Door Productions, because

1083
01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:06,500
I'd buy an hour left light 
entertainment and was working at

1084
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:10,900
selador, and Paul Smith and who 
was the boss was vote? 

1085
01:04:10,900 --> 01:04:14,700
You know, he was hot off the 
success of Who Wants To Be A 

1086
01:04:14,700 --> 01:04:18,600
Millionaire but he you know, he 
totally supported us during 

1087
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,900
which was decent of him and 
Steve's bring food. 

1088
01:04:20,900 --> 01:04:25,700
And one of his assistant, you 
know, sort of management people 

1089
01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:28,800
was was lovely and help me sort 
out really. 

1090
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:34,800
Vital stuff. 
So, I got the band and we've got

1091
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,600
the dots. 
So John was squirreled away in 

1092
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,700
his flat in West London working 
on that with his copyists 

1093
01:04:42,100 --> 01:04:44,900
working out the parts for the 
reason, the brass and the daddy 

1094
01:04:44,900 --> 01:04:49,800
do. 
And then I needed to get two 

1095
01:04:49,900 --> 01:04:57,300
more actors to be Peter and 
Spike and another actor to be an

1096
01:04:57,300 --> 01:04:59,000
announcer. 
Well, my idea for the announcer 

1097
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,100
was let me get Christopher, 
Timothy, who Entry Timothy son, 

1098
01:05:02,500 --> 01:05:05,300
of course it's you know, good 
actor and everything and so on 

1099
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,700
and got hold, of course, through
the agent. 

1100
01:05:08,700 --> 01:05:09,800
He drank straight back. 
Yep. 

1101
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,700
I'm in. 
Can I do some voices as well? 

1102
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:18,000
That's just, you know, hold on, 
hold on. 

1103
01:05:18,700 --> 01:05:21,500
But anyway, so he was sorted and
then I needed to voices. 

1104
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:25,000
And what I needed was to people 
and there were two ways of going

1105
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,200
at it. 
I can either pretend it was 

1106
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,800
night try and pretend, it was 
1958 and we all turn up in in 

1107
01:05:30,900 --> 01:05:34,300
Suits, and, you know, kind of 
try and pretend to be the 

1108
01:05:34,300 --> 01:05:36,900
people, or we admit that it's 
not anymore. 

1109
01:05:36,900 --> 01:05:41,000
And we go with people who can 
deliver a script to an audience 

1110
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,500
through a microphone. 
Yeah. 

1111
01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,400
And that was the way I went at 
it. 

1112
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:49,100
I didn't see any point at then, 
or now, in pretending to be 

1113
01:05:49,100 --> 01:05:52,000
Peter Spike and Harry because 
they're dead. 

1114
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,900
And you can't and nobody can be 
them, nobody can be them. 

1115
01:05:56,900 --> 01:06:01,400
But what you can do is 
demonstrate, if the Symphony 

1116
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:06,200
Orchestra is given Beethoven's 
Fifth to play and play it 

1117
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,500
really, really well. 
Then you can imagine Beethoven 

1118
01:06:09,500 --> 01:06:12,300
himself would be pleased about 
that and the audience will enjoy

1119
01:06:12,300 --> 01:06:15,500
it just as much as Beethoven's 
original audience would enjoy if

1120
01:06:15,500 --> 01:06:17,900
I can put it in that rather 
weird accrued way. 

1121
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,300
Yeah. 
And so, I had the music, I had 

1122
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:28,800
sound effect, I had a script, 
well, I had a script sorts which

1123
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:33,400
was basically I I assembled a 
collection of nuggets which I 

1124
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,400
thought would hang together and 
then pull minute and Brian 

1125
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,300
levison to writers. 
I've been working with on the 

1126
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:42,700
Russ Abbott show, who'd written 
TV stuff like the booze cruise 

1127
01:06:42,700 --> 01:06:46,100
and the piglet files with 
Nicholas Lyndhurst. 

1128
01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:48,400
Yes, remember that? 
Yeah. 

1129
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:53,200
Well, you know, two really 
strong comedy writers, who 

1130
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,200
understood the material, 
understood the concept of a gag 

1131
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,200
based humor. 
You know, it's an, it's not 

1132
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:00,800
going to be a mundo stuff it's 
going. 

1133
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,000
Be make people laugh on the 
punchline. 

1134
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,100
Yes gag. 
Yeah, they took the script and 

1135
01:07:09,100 --> 01:07:12,500
Polished it up added, some 
wonderful lines, like in the 

1136
01:07:12,508 --> 01:07:16,400
warm-up, about some David 
Beckham, be very upset, he 

1137
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:21,800
couldn't play blue bottle that 
was one of the, you know, sort 

1138
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,400
of stuff. 
We because of what I wanted to 

1139
01:07:23,408 --> 01:07:25,700
do, was punched the script up a 
bit because when we did 

1140
01:07:25,700 --> 01:07:32,600
flywheel, Michael Roberts would 
ad-lib, you know, in at moments 

1141
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:36,400
where it seemed right. 
So if a joke fell flat on its RC

1142
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,100
would say that was a it's a very
cat topical jogging. 

1143
01:07:39,100 --> 01:07:42,900
I need 30 girls or whatever it 
was and the audience will laugh 

1144
01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:46,500
at least a good ground shake. 
It was it was excellent Groucho.

1145
01:07:46,500 --> 01:07:49,000
He was wonderful. 
And the best gag he ever did was

1146
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,800
when he and Chico was supposed 
to he and Frank Lazarus playing 

1147
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:54,200
chick. 
I was supposed to fall into a 

1148
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:59,700
pigsty and all the rest of the 
cast came in around them and 

1149
01:07:59,700 --> 01:08:06,400
were doing Noises and Michael, 
who with Frank is Jewish. 

1150
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:09,300
It's just a quick. 
As a flash went to the mics that

1151
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,300
here. 
Are we two nice Jewish boys? 

1152
01:08:12,300 --> 01:08:16,000
Surrounded by ham and the rest 
of the other cars, run, it was. 

1153
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,700
I said at the end of the show 
has it was perfect. 

1154
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:23,600
And he said, what her mad, lib, 
I had to remind him. 

1155
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,399
He was so in the zone, wow, and 
that's what I wanted to achieve 

1156
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:30,899
with the Goon show. 
So what I did was I thought I'm 

1157
01:08:30,907 --> 01:08:33,500
just going to go with two at 
two, actors to comedy. 

1158
01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:34,300
Actors. 
I know. 

1159
01:08:34,300 --> 01:08:37,700
Can't, I'm a gag. 
Get it into the mic and out to 

1160
01:08:37,700 --> 01:08:42,300
the audience because doing radio
comedy is like the Dam Busters. 

1161
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,600
You've got to skip the bomb on 
the mic and then have it land on

1162
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,200
the audience in it can't stop at
the mic and it can't go past the

1163
01:08:53,207 --> 01:08:56,100
mic and just hit the audience. 
You've got to get the The 

1164
01:08:56,100 --> 01:09:01,600
Listener at home and the 
audience and I knew That Jeff 

1165
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:07,000
Holland could do that because 
Jeff has great timing. 

1166
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:11,399
He knows how to punch a gag. 
And I knew that Jeff was a Mad 

1167
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:14,700
King goon fan because we talked 
about it, when we were working 

1168
01:09:14,700 --> 01:09:17,700
together, 10 years before on 
inside sash sash. 

1169
01:09:17,700 --> 01:09:27,600
Yeah, yeah. 
Look at this. 

1170
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,600
What is it? 
It is you Lord ring in the same 

1171
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,200
pancreatitis region in the 
stomach. 

1172
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:42,800
See there you are. 
Talking to a half-digested bike.

1173
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:48,300
Well time look we can talk about
this but not here. 

1174
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,500
Let's go down to your place. 
It's quieter quick. 

1175
01:09:51,500 --> 01:10:02,200
Let's take the emergency lift. 
And the other person means I 

1176
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:06,200
Sacha, we talked about the goons
was was John Glover who mr. 

1177
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,100
Chumley Warner, if you remember 
that. 

1178
01:10:08,100 --> 01:10:12,700
Yeah, yeah, the old Harry 
Enfield, Harry Enfield. 

1179
01:10:12,700 --> 01:10:20,100
Carry punch me when he sings Me.
And anyway, so I said, would you

1180
01:10:20,100 --> 01:10:23,000
do it? 
And I asked John to be Mike and 

1181
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:29,700
I asked Jeff to be Peter And it 
works, you know, it wasn't quite

1182
01:10:29,700 --> 01:10:34,700
the blue bottle of of Sellers 
and it wasn't quite the mini 

1183
01:10:34,700 --> 01:10:39,400
banister of Milligan. 
But it was I needed to make the 

1184
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:43,400
room work on the night. 
So I got my cast, got the 

1185
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,300
script, got the band, also, 
sorry to drag you there but I 

1186
01:10:47,300 --> 01:10:49,600
think I think if, if you'd like 
to say before, if you want 

1187
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,300
people just to come in and 
personate do impersonations, the

1188
01:10:52,300 --> 01:10:54,800
audience are going to spend most
of time thinking all that really

1189
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:58,900
does sound like Yeah, Peter 
Sellers doing blood not whereas 

1190
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:01,100
you don't want that, you want 
the audience to be concentrating

1191
01:11:01,100 --> 01:11:04,400
on the gags and the laughs. 
I think you get that thing where

1192
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,800
you're listening hard for when 
it's going to stop being as 

1193
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:10,500
good. 
You know if you've got someone 

1194
01:11:10,500 --> 01:11:14,200
who's really uh yeah Keith 
Wickham, someone who just can do

1195
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,900
sellers brilliantly. 
But the thing is that that 

1196
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:22,200
wasn't a what was being asked 
for and secondly, if I was then 

1197
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,500
doing that, then I'd have a 
problem because I had to get 

1198
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:29,700
someone uncannily like Milligan 
and then Andy was Andy uncannily

1199
01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:32,700
enough like his dad, you know, 
it becomes his awful kind of 

1200
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:36,700
yeah, piling on of, it's like a 
Jenga that eventually it's going

1201
01:11:36,700 --> 01:11:38,900
to topple over because you 
cannot get that. 

1202
01:11:38,900 --> 01:11:42,000
Yeah, so if you accept, you 
can't do that. 

1203
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,100
If you say, no, this is us doing
this now. 

1204
01:11:44,100 --> 01:11:50,900
Not them doing it, then you're 
immediately making it more 

1205
01:11:50,900 --> 01:11:54,900
viable as an end product. 
And then what you're saying is, 

1206
01:11:55,300 --> 01:11:58,700
so what We have here is this, 
you know, going back to the 

1207
01:11:58,700 --> 01:12:04,200
Manhattan Project analogy 
increasingly shaky analogy of 

1208
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:09,600
the scripts, plus the band, 
plus, the performers, plus, the 

1209
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:14,500
sound effects in the script 
written in by Spike and Larry 

1210
01:12:14,500 --> 01:12:17,600
Stevens, who I think a couple of
bits had, you know, some Larry's

1211
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:23,300
working, that's either going to 
reach nuclear fission or isn't. 

1212
01:12:23,700 --> 01:12:26,700
But that's what we find out on 
the night and And the other 

1213
01:12:26,700 --> 01:12:29,300
thing I did was, I spent a long 
time preparing the sound 

1214
01:12:29,300 --> 01:12:31,300
effects. 
I sound designed all the effects

1215
01:12:31,300 --> 01:12:34,700
myself trying to use some 
original stuff using their the 

1216
01:12:34,700 --> 01:12:37,200
brand new clean. 
Wish I had discovered, you know 

1217
01:12:37,900 --> 01:12:41,100
inventing a bit of a new blood 
knock stomach type effect, you 

1218
01:12:41,100 --> 01:12:43,900
know sometimes taking a classic 
affect him, a bit of fun with it

1219
01:12:45,900 --> 01:12:48,800
and then turning up at the 
playhouse on Sunday, March the 

1220
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:55,900
whatever it was in 2001 and 
turning. 

1221
01:12:56,100 --> 01:13:02,500
Lunch time to do the table, read
with the cast and with Becca 

1222
01:13:03,100 --> 01:13:07,700
Wilfredo, acosta's wife, Becky, 
Becky Nicholson on sound 

1223
01:13:07,700 --> 01:13:10,700
effects. 
On the stage, I always always 

1224
01:13:10,700 --> 01:13:13,900
have spot effects visible 
because it's, yes, that's fun to

1225
01:13:13,900 --> 01:13:16,600
see someone do it. 
So we've got this bloody big 

1226
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:20,200
theater, I've invited Jim Moya 
Leslie. 

1227
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:27,500
Douglas Norma fans, Spike Harry 
Myra Ha, they've all been 

1228
01:13:27,500 --> 01:13:33,300
invited and Spike spike in hair 
over both not well, so couldn't 

1229
01:13:33,300 --> 01:13:35,200
come. 
So I'm like cursing, my luck and

1230
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:39,800
then normo didn't turn up and 
there's like and then Jim didn't

1231
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:42,700
turn up a nosy dinner. 
So we had this sort of row of 

1232
01:13:42,700 --> 01:13:46,300
empty seats at the very front of
the, of the, of the audience for

1233
01:13:46,300 --> 01:13:50,500
the show, which was kind of 
heartbreaking because because 

1234
01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:54,500
these were people who if they 
saw what we done would realize 

1235
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:58,600
it worked, but Was later on. 
I, I'm jumping ahead. 

1236
01:13:58,900 --> 01:14:01,500
We arrived at the Paris, we do 
the table, reading dressing room

1237
01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:03,800
back, and I'm thinking, is this 
gonna work? 

1238
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,000
Is this gonna work? 
I do not know if this is going 

1239
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,000
to work, and then the band 
turned up with John. 

1240
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,500
Now, this was the first time I'd
been with John, since we've gone

1241
01:14:12,500 --> 01:14:18,500
and raided the music library. 
And we went into, you know, the 

1242
01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:20,700
band got set up on stage and so 
on and so forth. 

1243
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:25,700
And there's 22 piece, we've got,
you know, the five reads five. 

1244
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,900
Fire. 
I think it was for each of 

1245
01:14:29,300 --> 01:14:34,500
trombones brass Rhythm Section 
additional Rhythm and a harpist,

1246
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:35,800
I think. 
Wow. 

1247
01:14:35,900 --> 01:14:40,400
Wow, that's okay, yeah. 
Anyway and then they did the 

1248
01:14:40,407 --> 01:14:45,000
bank or playing through the cues
sight, reading the cues and you 

1249
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,400
know that it's that gobsmacking 
moment you realize how good a 

1250
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,400
true professional musicians 
really are because I'm a, you 

1251
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,500
know, I'm a drummer or Ramona 
perhaps, I should say. 

1252
01:14:56,500 --> 01:15:02,400
And these guys just holy smoke 
and they played the blood knock.

1253
01:15:02,500 --> 01:15:05,600
I think it's the blood, not 
fame, and I was watching them 

1254
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:09,500
feeling very emotional and I 
turned around to find Jeff 

1255
01:15:09,500 --> 01:15:14,100
Holland in tears, behind me, and
we're both in tears because 

1256
01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:18,200
we've you're in the room with 
this Barrel now and yeah. 

1257
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:23,800
But but and it's and it's there 
in the room. 

1258
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,800
It's moving the air around you. 
In High Fidelity. 

1259
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,700
And it was, that was the moment 
where I thought, I think we 

1260
01:15:31,700 --> 01:15:34,000
might have this. 
I think we might have this. 

1261
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:39,400
Yeah, yeah and then we did the 
tech run and and Becky was 

1262
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,300
sliding in all the sound effects
and John Whitehall, the late 

1263
01:15:42,300 --> 01:15:45,800
great, brilliant, John White 
Hall in the mobile recording 

1264
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:51,000
truck outside, they give us the 
Pace mobile who I cannot praise 

1265
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,700
to highly as one of the genius 
Studio managers who you know, 

1266
01:15:54,700 --> 01:15:57,000
for if only people Recognize 
their work. 

1267
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:58,800
The way they do. 
The Goon show would realize how 

1268
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,700
good these people were. 
John putting it all together, in

1269
01:16:02,700 --> 01:16:04,900
the truck with the pre-recorded 
effects and so on. 

1270
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:09,600
And there are an the band on 
stage and then the guys come on 

1271
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,400
and we were her stuff. 
And I got a friend Lizzie 

1272
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,500
Glassboro, who's an opera 
singer, who's a trained, opera 

1273
01:16:15,500 --> 01:16:20,600
singer to come, and do take me 
back to Vienna for the for the 

1274
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,300
opening. 
And, and, and the thing about it

1275
01:16:22,308 --> 01:16:25,600
was I had to get it all on 
stage, the opening of thing, is 

1276
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:26,900
it? 
The opening of anything is a 

1277
01:16:26,907 --> 01:16:32,300
really important part of it and 
I knew I had to, this was really

1278
01:16:32,300 --> 01:16:36,000
interesting, how the hell do I 
get the goons on stage? 

1279
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,600
Then I know they're not the 
goons but it's the Goon show. 

1280
01:16:38,900 --> 01:16:42,100
And what I need to do is hit 
this audience with something 

1281
01:16:42,100 --> 01:16:48,300
that totally says this, is it? 
This is a fully fueled Death 

1282
01:16:48,300 --> 01:16:51,100
Star. 
We have built here. 

1283
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:55,400
And, and so, I came up with the 
idea of doing it. 

1284
01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:00,200
Medley of the goons songs. 
And so I took the original songs

1285
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,600
and edited them together, I sent
it John. 

1286
01:17:03,300 --> 01:17:06,400
And I said, could you, you know,
could you do an arrangement for 

1287
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,300
this like this? 
And he said, yeah sure it is 

1288
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:13,900
yeah Jordy. 
Yeah, and so and that's what I 

1289
01:17:13,900 --> 01:17:16,700
thought I would do. 
So, so the first thing that 

1290
01:17:16,700 --> 01:17:21,400
happened at of everything was, 
there was this big thing and I 

1291
01:17:21,407 --> 01:17:24,200
knew I wanted to open it with 
the big band opening to I'm 

1292
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,300
walking backwards Christmas. 
Hmm. 

1293
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,900
Because that is one of the best 
big band cues I've ever heard in

1294
01:17:29,900 --> 01:17:34,600
my life and yeah me too. 
That bad ass anyway. 

1295
01:17:35,100 --> 01:17:39,900
Well, you know, we did the tech 
run with the band and we 

1296
01:17:39,900 --> 01:17:43,900
couldn't get we had Lance 
Ellington singing because 

1297
01:17:43,900 --> 01:17:48,200
obviously read passed on and we 
couldn't get Max geldray because

1298
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:50,900
he was too old to fly over. 
So we got a guy called Harry 

1299
01:17:50,900 --> 01:17:56,900
pitch, who Harry? 
Somebody said We did the heat 

1300
01:17:56,900 --> 01:18:01,600
did the harmonica on the Navy 
lock but I don't think he did so

1301
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:05,000
I'm not Harry was sweet guy. 
Sweet guy. 

1302
01:18:05,900 --> 01:18:11,300
And he had dots for crazy. 
Rhythm he'd ever played it twice

1303
01:18:11,300 --> 01:18:16,200
the same way but bless him. 
It was he was still in there. 

1304
01:18:17,700 --> 01:18:19,900
We did the tech. 
Run went okay. 

1305
01:18:20,900 --> 01:18:25,700
Went had a beer around the 
corner, came back audience 

1306
01:18:25,700 --> 01:18:29,400
started coming in and it was the
weirdest audience service in 

1307
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,900
your life. 
So you get Stirling Moss comes 

1308
01:18:32,900 --> 01:18:38,000
in and then Martin Chambers the 
drummer with the pretenders with

1309
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:43,800
Chrissie Hynde and and then 
Barry Cryer and Dick. 

1310
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:48,000
Vosburgh of course, yeah, 
embarrasses are Dirk. 

1311
01:18:48,100 --> 01:18:50,400
We've come to bury you, not to 
praise you. 

1312
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:56,600
You busted us, he's goes off to 
the bar and then my mom came in 

1313
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,700
and neighbors. 
And my wife Leslie, bought a 

1314
01:18:58,708 --> 01:19:00,700
little boys and so on and so 
forth. 

1315
01:19:00,700 --> 01:19:03,000
And I'm just thinking, oh my 
God, I hope this. 

1316
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:08,000
I hope it works. 
And then Steve punt walks in 

1317
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:10,300
with Mitch been. 
So, you know, and they're kind 

1318
01:19:10,300 --> 01:19:12,800
of, you know, you know, you've 
made so there to support you. 

1319
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,100
But they're also interested to 
see if you fall flat on your 

1320
01:19:16,100 --> 01:19:20,500
art. 
And so, and so, we did the show.

1321
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,100
Show. 
And what I did was I rigged it 

1322
01:19:22,100 --> 01:19:26,000
so that the main tab was down. 
So we just had three mics down 

1323
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,100
stage on the on the very front 
of the stage. 

1324
01:19:28,100 --> 01:19:30,200
So all you saw were the 
curtains, shut in three minutes,

1325
01:19:30,300 --> 01:19:32,900
nothing else. 
So the audience in the room did 

1326
01:19:32,900 --> 01:19:35,600
not know anything other than 
they were three microphones. 

1327
01:19:35,700 --> 01:19:39,900
And we were doing a gun show and
I came out on stage and I did 

1328
01:19:39,900 --> 01:19:43,800
this warm-up which was really 
way too long, but I wanted to 

1329
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,700
thank people and I wanted to 
sort of heart back to John brows

1330
01:19:46,700 --> 01:19:48,300
Warner warm-up for the last 
goon. 

1331
01:19:48,300 --> 01:19:49,500
Shovel. 
Yes. 

1332
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:51,800
So, you know, there were Aspects
of that as well. 

1333
01:19:52,100 --> 01:19:54,800
And of course, all my thanks. 
You know, want to thank Norma 

1334
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,800
and Spike and how Jim Moore, and
there's no one there. 

1335
01:19:58,100 --> 01:20:02,300
The front row is empty and that 
hurt because I thought, oh, we 

1336
01:20:02,300 --> 01:20:06,600
put so much into this, and yeah.
Anyway, and then, you know, I 

1337
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:10,800
said now, no one can recreate 
goons think of this as a 

1338
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:15,300
genetically, modified tribute 
band and the god, laughs. 

1339
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:18,300
And then I said, and if you're 
still wondering what we're going

1340
01:20:18,300 --> 01:20:19,600
to be doing here or something 
like that. 

1341
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:21,900
I said, here's what. 
It's all about and I walked off 

1342
01:20:21,900 --> 01:20:25,100
stage and as I walked off stage,
Steve Springfield in the wings 

1343
01:20:25,700 --> 01:20:30,000
pulls madly on the tabs to get 
them up and the Band hits this 

1344
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:36,300
bad at all. 
And it was just electric because

1345
01:20:36,300 --> 01:20:40,500
the whole audience sort of sat 
back in their seats. 

1346
01:20:40,500 --> 01:20:43,700
As if as if we put an 
acceleration on the thing it's 

1347
01:20:43,700 --> 01:20:48,600
like a Milligan gang really and 
this band hit it and then they 

1348
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,400
you know the guys came on with 
with Is he doing there? 

1349
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,500
Take me back to the Anna and all
of that. 

1350
01:20:54,500 --> 01:21:02,700
And I'm just, it flew it just 
flew and I cannot that the CD is

1351
01:21:02,700 --> 01:21:05,900
as good as I could get it in 
terms of, you know, sounding 

1352
01:21:05,900 --> 01:21:09,200
really edgy and on it and 
energetic and so on. 

1353
01:21:09,700 --> 01:21:14,300
But really you had to be there. 
And it was that was the thing. 

1354
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:20,100
It we recreated the Manhattan 
Project of Comedy. 

1355
01:21:20,700 --> 01:21:25,200
And it bloody worked. 
And what I really was sad about,

1356
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:30,100
was that Spike wasn't there to 
see how all the ingredients he 

1357
01:21:30,100 --> 01:21:35,200
put together worked. 
Still worked with it with a 

1358
01:21:35,208 --> 01:21:39,400
really, really good bad and so 
on and but he heard it 

1359
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:42,600
afterwards, he heard it 
afterwards and he was he Norma 

1360
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:44,100
told me he threw it. 
He was thrilled. 

1361
01:21:44,100 --> 01:21:46,100
He really really loves lovely. 
Yeah. 

1362
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:48,600
Who is that? 
Street address Naval often the 

1363
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:50,400
Crowsnest? 
Able Seaman Echols. 

1364
01:21:51,100 --> 01:21:53,700
Why is he wearing a cloth cap 
morning could fishnet stockings 

1365
01:21:53,700 --> 01:21:56,000
and a line called? 
Don't think we'd let him go up 

1366
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:57,200
there. 
Naked do here. 

1367
01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:06,300
Mr. Prime minister Sia, as a 
messenger apology. 

1368
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:17,900
And Percy. 
But wait, wait game. 

1369
01:22:17,900 --> 01:22:28,700
He returns. 
But not for long King ethelbert 

1370
01:22:28,700 --> 01:22:32,700
rallied his subjects for the 
defense of their country, men of

1371
01:22:32,700 --> 01:22:36,500
North Hill have no fear. 
Isn't that your king will lead? 

1372
01:22:36,500 --> 01:22:41,700
You will raise my sword in the 
Forefront of your drinks. 

1373
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:51,800
King, William King will know 
abdicate. 

1374
01:22:54,300 --> 01:22:56,000
Does the prisoner have something
to say yes? 

1375
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:57,200
Anything else. 
No, thank you. 

1376
01:23:02,100 --> 01:23:04,000
Has the court reached a 
decision? 

1377
01:23:05,300 --> 01:23:07,000
I will buy you a plastic 
surgeon. 

1378
01:23:07,100 --> 01:23:09,500
No, I'm flesh and Bone like 
everyone else. 

1379
01:23:13,700 --> 01:23:17,300
And years afterwards, Jeff had a
party for like his umpteenth 

1380
01:23:17,300 --> 01:23:21,000
year and Showbiz and it was 
just, you know, friends and 

1381
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,200
relations. 
And David Croft and Jimmy Perry 

1382
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:25,100
were there and lots of Heidi. 
Hi folks. 

1383
01:23:25,100 --> 01:23:29,900
And and all of that and lets you
know, invited and and I said, 

1384
01:23:29,900 --> 01:23:33,700
hello, this is lovely of you but
we doing here, he said, you gave

1385
01:23:33,700 --> 01:23:38,800
me the happiest single day I've 
ever had in the theater in my 

1386
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:43,000
life and I'm in a show and I 
mean, you know, doesn't get 

1387
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:44,900
better. 
And that does it really know 

1388
01:23:45,300 --> 01:23:48,900
cause he made sure when you he 
comes on goon pod, he might say 

1389
01:23:48,900 --> 01:23:54,200
to you, can't bloody Duke. 
What maybe says that everybody 

1390
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:57,800
works with, you know what mind 
you would have been a much 

1391
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:03,600
bigger party if but a couple of.
But if I can finish this story 

1392
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:04,700
briefly. 
Yeah, sure. 

1393
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,700
Because I carry this in my heart
every day going again, I loved 

1394
01:24:08,700 --> 01:24:13,700
doing it so much and I'm so 
proud to not only be One of the 

1395
01:24:13,700 --> 01:24:17,000
last producers to work with 
Spike on a live show because he 

1396
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:19,300
came to do a fly wheel size to 
and flywheel. 

1397
01:24:19,300 --> 01:24:21,200
Yes. 
In fact to ship flywheel charge 

1398
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:25,500
from flywheels and was great. 
But also to actually have 

1399
01:24:25,500 --> 01:24:30,300
produced, the Goon show, which 
is, you know, a real one with, 

1400
01:24:30,300 --> 01:24:32,700
with all the bells, and 
whistles. 

1401
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,300
Yeah. 
And afterwards. 

1402
01:24:36,300 --> 01:24:41,200
I'm I said to, I went to see 
Norma a few weeks later and I 

1403
01:24:41,208 --> 01:24:43,200
said, look, you know, we could 
do this. 

1404
01:24:43,900 --> 01:24:47,900
You know, we could do the gun 
show and she, she was friends 

1405
01:24:47,900 --> 01:24:51,500
with Bill kenwright, the 
theater, a are Maria, and she 

1406
01:24:51,500 --> 01:24:55,000
sent him the thing. 
And that the type of the thing 

1407
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,900
and told him what I'd done, you 
know, she wasn't there but she, 

1408
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:03,200
you know, she related or and 
that Christmas Christmas 90 

1409
01:25:03,500 --> 01:25:06,900
twistmas 2001. 
He was advertising goon again, 

1410
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:12,200
is the Goon show that are full 
goon show with Orchestra at 

1411
01:25:12,700 --> 01:25:14,300
Windsor. 
The They are all produced by 

1412
01:25:14,300 --> 01:25:18,000
Dirk and, you know, all of this 
and Norma and all of this and it

1413
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:20,700
was going to and that I didn't 
know was happening. 

1414
01:25:20,700 --> 01:25:23,500
No one told me that my neighbor 
came around with a windsor 

1415
01:25:23,500 --> 01:25:25,400
theater. 
All booklet saying look, you 

1416
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:28,500
know, with a band to rival while
he starts and the holy shit. 

1417
01:25:28,500 --> 01:25:33,400
He's, you know, taking the bait 
anyway, long story short, it 

1418
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:38,200
didn't happen and it kept on not
happening for the next ten years

1419
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:46,200
or so. 
And I When I rewrote the idea of

1420
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,700
the show three or four times, 
you know, pitching the theater 

1421
01:25:49,700 --> 01:25:56,900
to Norma wrote a one-act play 
about grafton's attic, which 

1422
01:25:56,900 --> 01:26:02,000
then morphed into the second 
half, which was a classic goon 

1423
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:06,100
show, then the idea of 
presenting classic goon shows, 

1424
01:26:07,700 --> 01:26:11,900
you know, as per. 
But but but never, you know, 

1425
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,400
never in. 
Costume or anything like that. 

1426
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:18,000
This was going to be. 
We are now in whatever year it 

1427
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,300
was doing these Classics grips. 
The way they were designed this 

1428
01:26:21,300 --> 01:26:23,200
is never going to be dressing 
people up. 

1429
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:29,000
Yes, win fat suits to be hairy 
or nonsense like that. 10 years,

1430
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:35,000
15 years went by nothing was 
happening and I think Andy cecum

1431
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:39,100
and I had one last stab at 
trying to put it on about five 

1432
01:26:39,100 --> 01:26:41,500
years ago when we were talking 
to people about doing it on the 

1433
01:26:41,500 --> 01:26:44,800
Edinburgh Fringe. 
And the thing was As soon as you

1434
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:46,900
do that the same will who can 
you get to be in it? 

1435
01:26:46,900 --> 01:26:50,800
And say, well and he seek and, 
you know, the detailed come on, 

1436
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,000
can't we have Bill Bailey or 
Eddie? 

1437
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:54,900
Is that, you know. 
Yeah. 

1438
01:26:54,900 --> 01:26:56,800
And it's like, no, that's not 
the point. 

1439
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:00,200
That's not the point. 
This the the Goon shows the star

1440
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:03,000
of this I mean now. 
Yeah, and Andy who's brilliant? 

1441
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:09,700
You know, is saying this is what
deep in my heart if I could do 

1442
01:27:10,100 --> 01:27:12,200
and I know exactly what I would 
do now as well. 

1443
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:15,800
And it would be basically Call 
it, the Goon show in concert 

1444
01:27:15,900 --> 01:27:18,100
because it would have to have 
the music. 

1445
01:27:18,300 --> 01:27:20,700
The music absolutely has to be 
in there. 

1446
01:27:20,700 --> 01:27:26,200
Mmm, so I'm copywriting that, 
anyone who hears this, you're 

1447
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:31,500
under NDA, the Goon show cause, 
but I think that's how I would 

1448
01:27:31,500 --> 01:27:37,900
do it and you present basically,
you know, kind of like a script 

1449
01:27:37,900 --> 01:27:40,700
that hangs together through to 
harms and you have a bloody big 

1450
01:27:40,700 --> 01:27:42,900
band up there and you do it, 
right? 

1451
01:27:43,300 --> 01:27:47,000
And And you don't compromise. 
Of course, that's too expensive 

1452
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:50,400
to do because, you know, live 
music cost money. 

1453
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:55,100
But that would be the way that 
would be, the only way I could 

1454
01:27:55,100 --> 01:27:57,400
do it, having done it that way 
once before. 

1455
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:03,800
So it'll never happen. 
But that was the night that we 

1456
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:09,200
realized that what Spike and 
Peter and Harry and benteen back

1457
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:12,300
in the day and all those 
producers Peter. 

1458
01:28:12,300 --> 01:28:16,400
Eat and John. 
Now, Charles Chilton, what they 

1459
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:20,600
did was, they put together 
something, which is pretty much 

1460
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:25,400
Invincible e. 
Bulletproof As Long as You 

1461
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:29,000
Follow the ingredients, closely.
Yes dude. 

1462
01:28:29,100 --> 01:28:32,200
Just very quickly. 
You want to talk about? 

1463
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,700
How Coon the oh yeah sure sure 
sure. 

1464
01:28:34,700 --> 01:28:37,800
Yeah yeah yeah. 
So what you know kind of like 

1465
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:41,700
it's been hit have been a long 
time since I have been near any 

1466
01:28:41,700 --> 01:28:44,400
Milligan material. 
But for my own Pleasure anyway, 

1467
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:49,900
and I have a little production 
company called perfectly normal.

1468
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,500
I don't do a lot through it but 
when, you know, there were three

1469
01:28:52,500 --> 01:28:56,200
or four of us who kind of a 
directors of it, and when we 

1470
01:28:56,500 --> 01:28:59,500
have a job that could be 
submitted to the BBC we do and 

1471
01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:06,500
and in Billings the excellent 
writer and actor had the idea of

1472
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:09,100
adapting pakkun and pakkun. 
You know, has been one of my 

1473
01:29:09,100 --> 01:29:13,800
favorite books since forever and
it didn't occur to me Really 

1474
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,400
that it needed adapting because 
I knew that there was the vinyl 

1475
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:19,900
version that Spike and folks did
in the 70s. 

1476
01:29:19,900 --> 01:29:22,900
Was it something? 
Yeah. 

1477
01:29:23,100 --> 01:29:27,900
One of them. 
Yeah but I knew oh and I went to

1478
01:29:27,900 --> 01:29:32,600
see there was a production of it
at the theater unless the square

1479
01:29:32,700 --> 01:29:37,500
and and I kind of came away, 
slightly dissatisfied. 

1480
01:29:37,500 --> 01:29:39,900
But everybody worked really hard
and someone wrote about some of 

1481
01:29:39,900 --> 01:29:43,200
the gags is very hard to do the 
scale of that closing. 

1482
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:46,000
See Sequence. 
The Big Boy Scout concert in the

1483
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:50,500
old people's home. 
And so when Ian came in with 

1484
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:54,900
this script, the idea of doing 
the adaptation, it was like, oh 

1485
01:29:54,900 --> 01:29:57,600
yeah, let's do this, let's do 
pakkun. 

1486
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:01,200
And and then it was a case of, 
you know, you came up with the 

1487
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,400
script which was great and it 
really managed to boil down the 

1488
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:07,400
best bits the book. 
But then who the hell to get in 

1489
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:10,000
it? 
And that was, when the stroke of

1490
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,000
Genius was, I don't know if it 
was the in or Dave morally, you 

1491
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,100
produced. 
It said about Barry Cryer and 

1492
01:30:16,100 --> 01:30:18,800
it's like, well yeah, home and 
dry. 

1493
01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:23,600
Yeah, yeah, back back, Uncle 
Bears. 

1494
01:30:23,900 --> 01:30:26,300
So that was sorted and then, you
know, who could we get it? 

1495
01:30:26,300 --> 01:30:29,300
And I've worked a fair bit with 
Ed Byrne. 

1496
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:35,100
He came in on the six hitchhiker
series and and was great, and 

1497
01:30:35,100 --> 01:30:40,500
he's a huge Enthusiast, but many
things including Spike and Ed 

1498
01:30:40,500 --> 01:30:42,400
was coming in and then who else 
can we get? 

1499
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:45,200
And we got Paula, McCullen, you 
know? 

1500
01:30:45,300 --> 01:30:48,900
Yeah, who wouldn't want Pauline 
for anything Irish because she's

1501
01:30:48,900 --> 01:30:54,700
not actually, she's a brilliant 
actress Iowa and and just lovely

1502
01:30:54,700 --> 01:30:59,100
Carson and Jane Milligan spikes 
daughter, who are who I've been 

1503
01:30:59,100 --> 01:31:01,700
friends with for years. 
But finally got to work with. 

1504
01:31:02,700 --> 01:31:06,300
She told me she's been on this. 
Are she's a fine fine. 

1505
01:31:06,300 --> 01:31:07,700
Fine person. 
Hmm. 

1506
01:31:07,700 --> 01:31:14,100
And and so we had pakkun we did 
pakkun and it was a Real 

1507
01:31:14,500 --> 01:31:18,000
challenge because I wanted that 
ending to be as big as I could 

1508
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:20,500
get it. 
The whole of that stupid concert

1509
01:31:20,500 --> 01:31:24,500
with the de Dion, engine pumping
out fumes. 

1510
01:31:24,500 --> 01:31:27,700
And what have you and the whole 
business of the of the made of 

1511
01:31:27,700 --> 01:31:31,400
the of the IRA guys. 
And the made going up and down 

1512
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:35,400
in the elevators and just the 
complete Madness of it. 

1513
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:40,200
It was a real it was a real 
Challenge and and I was really 

1514
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:41,300
proud of it. 
The end of it. 

1515
01:31:41,300 --> 01:31:43,700
I felt I felt. 
Yes I think we've done It 

1516
01:31:43,700 --> 01:31:46,800
justice. 
It was the audio movie of pakkun

1517
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,200
I wanted to make and I think we 
managed it. 

1518
01:31:51,100 --> 01:31:53,400
Listen, that's a week. 
We could, we could uh I could 

1519
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,100
sit and talk to you for hours. 
You've been very generous with 

1520
01:31:56,100 --> 01:31:59,800
your time Derek and you've not 
long recovered which still still

1521
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,000
what you still sort of suffering
the after-effects of covid. 

1522
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:05,800
Yeah. 
Weird cramps and stiff neck from

1523
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:06,500
hell. 
Yeah. 

1524
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:09,100
Really stupid. 
But I drain frogs better. 

1525
01:32:09,300 --> 01:32:10,100
I'm good. 
Good. 

1526
01:32:10,300 --> 01:32:13,300
As I say, you know, I'm indebted
to you for coming on. 

1527
01:32:14,500 --> 01:32:17,700
I'd love to have talked in 
detail about, or at least talked

1528
01:32:17,700 --> 01:32:21,700
about things like, inside, Sacha
things like night class, which I

1529
01:32:21,700 --> 01:32:23,400
enjoyed. 
And also what I'd love to have 

1530
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:26,900
done talk more about flywheel 
but maybe, you know, being 

1531
01:32:28,500 --> 01:32:31,600
around to some time if you run 
out of more interesting. 

1532
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:34,700
People I'm happy to come back. 
All right, I'm gonna hold you to

1533
01:32:34,700 --> 01:32:36,100
that. 
I look forward to it. 

1534
01:32:36,100 --> 01:32:38,800
So I looked in lovely chatting 
and I hope you get something 

1535
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:40,600
editable. 
That's it. 

1536
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:43,300
Thanks again to Dirk. 
Thank you for listening. 

1537
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:45,800
If you haven't heard the show 
before and want to go back and 

1538
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:49,200
listen to the rest, there's at 
least 60 in the archive. 

1539
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:55,200
They can be found in the usual 
places, iTunes Spotify Stitcher 

1540
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:59,200
and and all the rest. 
I will be back next week with a 

1541
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:03,600
show about a particular film. 
I won't say which one yet, but 

1542
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:06,400
please tune in, or download or 
whatever it is. 

1543
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:09,100
You do. 
You don't shoot in podcasting if

1544
01:33:09,100 --> 01:33:11,600
it can say. 
Anyway, as I said, thank you 

1545
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,400
again for listening, see you 
next week. 

1546
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,400
Week. 
Bye.