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Now we have a bonus point going 
here for a bonus mark by the 

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team who said this. 
There are so many who use you to

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get publicity. 
That ugly bastard Roaring 

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McGraw, and you can print that 
because that's putting it 

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mildly. 
Every week he rips us to pieces.

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I am serious about what I do. 
I can sing, I can write songs 

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and I work bloody hard at it. 
Whereas Rory McGraw is just a 

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prick. 
Rory, Rory, Barbara Cartland's 

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last words, They were poshpies. 
Poshpies. 

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You got a bonus point for that. 
Can I just say how upset I was 

11
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for that? 
In fact I've been so upset posh 

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since you said that, that I 
haven't been able to eat. 

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Oh you know I think she's. 
I think she's. 

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It's like when kids at 
playground, you know that and 

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you throw stones at the girl you
like. 

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I think she. 
I think so. 

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Yeah. 
I definitely. 

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When someone calls you an ugly 
bastard in a prick, I think. 

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Hello. 
You like move over, David. 

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Hello and welcome to Goon Pod. 
Starting 2024 with a guest who 

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as you heard Victoria Beckham 
probably fancies so my guest. 

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And by the way that's the 1st 
and no doubt the last time that 

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Victoria Beckham will get 
mentioned on Goombod I really 

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handle. 
Sure Hilda Baker of course. 

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Rita Webb in jubitably but the 
Beckham? 

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Nah, as well said. 
My guest is Rory McGrath, and 

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Rory was an incredibly warm and 
entertaining chap to spend an 

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hour also nattering away too. 
He's a big fan of the goons, but

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you know, we focused a lot on 
his career and some of those 

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he's worked with in a career 
spanning nearly 50 years. 

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One thing before we kick off Now
this podcast doesn't tend to shy

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away from robust language, but 
we don't necessarily make it a 

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feature. 
I suspect that there may be some

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sections of the listenership who
don't think that a lot of 

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swearing is big or clever. 
I may be wrong, I just. 

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I just wanted to point out that 
Rory enjoys the odd swear word 

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and peppering his chat with a 
little bit of Anglo-Saxon. 

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And the The only reason I bring 
it up is that he does at one 

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point talk about an encounter 
that he had with Frankie Howard,

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which is pretty hair raising and
possibly could offend a few 

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listeners. 
It's around the 47 minute mark. 

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I don't want to come across as 
that guy, but I felt I ought to 

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include this little caution 
right at the outset, just in 

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case people don't want to hear 
that sort of thing. 

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Anyway, here's Rory. 
Welcome to Goon Pod. 

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Rory, thank you. 
It's an honor. 

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The goons, I don't know if you 
know this, but the goons alone 

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were the were. 
The Goon Show was the program 

49
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that got me interested in comedy
and writing comedy. 

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I mean, I hadn't it hadn't 
crossed my mind that I would do 

51
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that and I was at a school in 
Cornwall. 

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It's all very out of the way 
play. 

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So we're actually a town called 
Redruth, which is a really 

54
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amazing place to live in in the 
1890s. 

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But unfortunately I was born in 
1956, so and it things had moved

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backwards I think since then. 
But anyway, I was friends with 

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this guy called Bob Pugh who's 
actually now called Bob 

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Sinfield. 
He changed his name and he's, 

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he's a presenter on the Jazz 
Presenter and he's an actor, 

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very funny bloke, first bloke I 
ever wrote a sketch with and he 

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bought this record that's a 
piece of vinyl. 

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You know what record is? 
You know, I know you're younger 

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than me, but I bet you know what
a record is. 

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Oh, yes, you know. 
And it was called, it was 2 good

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shows, One was called The China 
Story and one was called the 

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Mccreaky Rising of 54. 
Catfit or something, 7474. 

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Well done. 
You know, I listened to this 

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absolutely. 
And I've never heard anything 

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like this before. 
This was, it was chaos. 

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It was it. 
Not anarchy. 

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And then now listening back, it 
sounds tame and silly, but the 

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energy of it and the sort of 
violence of it and the verbal 

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trickery was, was was really, it
sounded shocking. 

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I said God, even when I listen 
to it now, I think, my God, this

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is unbroadcastable. 
It's so rude, but it actually 

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don't actually say anything 
rude. 

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It's all implications, but I 
remember, you know. 

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What? 
You know the Mccreaky Rising 

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episode. 
Did you did you notice anything 

80
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particularly unusual about that 
particular episode, The Mick 

81
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Rick? 
I can't remember if I did, no. 

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Because that, because I always 
think that was a ridiculous 

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episode to put on an LP because 
Spike wasn't there. 

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Peter was doing Spike's voices 
as well as. 

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I know he never knew. 
That's a great good knowledge, 

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Tyler. 
Good knowledge, man. 

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I 
will like that, not. 

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OK. 
But you yeah, obviously you 

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still you first heard them on an
LP what that like you say that 

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just encourage you to pick up a 
problem. 

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They would. 
Then I knew that he said that 

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they were actually being 
replayed on radio. 

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So I listened to every average, 
you know, there was this has 

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been what when there's been 
1960, how old would I have been 

95
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then Sort of about 666566. 
So they're going out being 

96
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repeated on Radio 4 or I don't 
think. 

97
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,040
They think it was the home 
service. 

98
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I think it was Radio 4 by then. 
I listen to them all. 

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I really. 
I remember listening to them 

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because my parents didn't like 
me listening to it for some 

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reason. 
I used to listen to it on the 

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radio under my bedclothes, you 
know? 

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I mean, what innocence for 
innocent days when you know you 

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you listen to the radio under 
your bed clothes? 

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You're you're in good company 
because your your good friend 

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Peter Cook did exactly the same 
thing at Radley. 

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When under the bedclothes, he 
would listen to the Goon Show 

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and when it was being put up 
originally, you know, that 

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seemed. 
Kind of. 

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I'm touched by that because as 
you know, I didn't know Peter 

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really well and I think we ever 
discussed that. 

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That's The funny thing. 
But Peter Cook that he has the 

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same sort of had the same sort 
of energetic anarchy There's 

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something you know always 
slightly dangerous and what's he

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going to say next you know what 
we and and when you listen to 

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what Derek and Clive was 
obviously deliberately crude but

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00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,800
even you know the you know his 
characters in in not only but 

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00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,040
also very dangerous edgy sort of
surreal sort of thing. 

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And I think the Goon Show, Peter
Cook, that sort of Monty Python 

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when that came along was very 
much the was in the same ilk. 

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I think you're probably fed up 
with hearing this because 

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everyone must say this, but the 
same sort of chaotic anarchy and

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00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,159
sort of slight edginess, you 
know, of the of Monty Python 

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with exactly what the Goon Show 
was like. 

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So I actually started on the 
Goon Show and then the same 

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friend, Bob Sinfield, Bob Pugh, 
as he was said, well, if you 

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00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,360
like this, you should listen a 
radio program called I'm sorry, 

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00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,640
I read that again, which I 
hadn't heard of. 

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So I started listening to that 
and I thought, this is, this is 

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great because this is like a 
modern sort of sketchy version 

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of of the Goon Show. 
The Goon Show purported to have 

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a, you know, a weekly story as 
you know, as Rambling and Kartik

133
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as it was. 
But this is radio sketch and I 

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thought, this is fantastic, 
this, this is great, you know. 

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And then then I found Round the 
Horn, which was also being 

136
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repeated because that that had 
been on earlier. 

137
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,840
And so the Goon Show, I'm sorry 
that again. 

138
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And Round the Horn influenced me
so much. 

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I mean, I did. 
I did love that. 

140
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There's something about the way 
I think, particularly Graham 

141
00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,560
Garden. 
I think he wrote a great garden.

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00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:29,120
Oddly, I think wrote most of 
them very similar verbal sort of

143
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,080
verbal trickery that Milligan 
was so good at. 

144
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,080
I I think Graham Garden, I 
always say this on this podcast.

145
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Whenever Graham Garden comes up,
I always say he was the funniest

146
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,000
one of that group. 
Yeah, I think he's funnier than 

147
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,200
Cleese, actually. 
You. 

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00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:45,880
Know I think he's very good. 
And he was. 

149
00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,680
He did. 
I remember him doing a few. 

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He's still with us. 
Graham's. 

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00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:54,200
And if they all I know who died.
Timber Taylor died recently, 

152
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,120
didn't he? 
And yes, and Graham Chapman who 

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00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,960
was in who did a few. 
I'm sorry, didn't he? 

154
00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:01,240
I think. 
He did. 

155
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:02,960
And you worked with. 
I'm gonna. 

156
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:03,960
I was gonna talk about this 
later. 

157
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,240
But you'd worked with Tim and 
Graham on Black. 

158
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:13,840
Cinderella Two goes East. 
Predict the radio Bantamite it 

159
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,880
was it was normally a an ex 
Footlights pantomime anyone 

160
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,040
involved in Footlights which 
meant we had we had Peter Cook 

161
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,240
and I think Rob Buckman I think 
we're playing the ugly sisters I

162
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,160
can't remember but we that was 
and Tim Brook I was no Tim Brook

163
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:32,440
was Tim Brook Taylor might be an
ugly suit. 

164
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,920
Well, I know that Bill Oddie 
didn't like it because we kept 

165
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,200
referring to them as Timothea 
and Gardini. 

166
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,760
I think the sisters were and and
Billardi. 

167
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,320
The characters called and 
Billardi and and he he got very 

168
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,480
grumpy about that. 
Well, Tim, Tim used to do. 

169
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:49,760
I would. 
I would imagine Tim wouldn't be 

170
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,240
one of the ugly sisters because 
he always did that Lady 

171
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,440
Constance voice. 
Didn't he? 

172
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,120
He would, yes, that's right. 
He was. 

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00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,880
That's. 
Just quickly just go back to 

174
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,120
Peter Cook and we'll probably 
talk about him again later. 

175
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,200
But just on the goons and and 
his relationship with the goons 

176
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,320
you say you never discussed in 
your you know you can't remember

177
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,320
ever talking about the Goon I. 
Remember ever talking about 

178
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,400
that? 
He when he was still at school 

179
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:19,880
in the 50s, he sent a kind of a 
proto or a sort of a pseudo goon

180
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:25,320
show script into the BBC, OK, 
And it and somehow or other 

181
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:31,520
landed on Spike Milligan's desk.
And although I think he wrote a 

182
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,280
polite letter, sort of politely 
declining it for for use, if you

183
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,760
know what I mean. 
He invited Peter for lunch and 

184
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,720
it would have been 1957. 
So young Peter Cook went and had

185
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,920
lunch with Spike Milligan and 
wouldn't you have loved to have 

186
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,640
been there? 
So can you have like, that's a 

187
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,960
great story. 
Yeah, that's very I I work, I 

188
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,320
was on AI, was on a show, a 
weird show that David Frost was 

189
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:56,480
doing it. 
It was awful. 

190
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,120
Can you believe that? 
I think it was going out 

191
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,440
simultaneously live in Australia
and Britain. 

192
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,120
I can't remember what it was, 
what we were doing a sketch on 

193
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,640
it and me, and I think it might 
have me and Jimmy Moore might 

194
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,960
have been doing a sketch on it. 
And the spike, Milligan was on 

195
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,080
it interesting and he was sort 
of, I was sort of walking up and

196
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,120
down the corridor outside the 
city trying to learn my lines 

197
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,360
and Spike walked past. 
He said I thought this is 

198
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,680
amazing and I could. 
I was going because I thought it

199
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:32,120
was great coming from him, you 
know, the famously neurotic 

200
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,160
warrior. 
Yeah. 

201
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,720
That was it was all like that 
was my entire, you know, you 

202
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,760
know, afterwards I thought, 
well, I mustn't think I must 

203
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,040
come and speak to Spike. 
But he disappeared after his 

204
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,440
interview. 
And so by the time we done 

205
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,600
asked, he had gone. 
But I you know, that's one of 

206
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,800
those moments. 
I think damn, if only. 

207
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,840
Yeah, it's interesting. 
I noticed you. 

208
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,040
So you said the goons and you 
said I'm sorry, and you said 

209
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,960
round the horn with big 
influences. 

210
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,280
What about Hancock? 
Yeah I like Hancock. 

211
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:07,400
I mean it's interesting Hancock.
Hancock is was funny as the 

212
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,640
radio show was great. 
I liked it and he was sort of a 

213
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:15,200
distillation with that of of 
that sort of Englishman and that

214
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,680
in that in those days you know 
that sort of bluff a bit like 

215
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:22,480
Mannering and he's sort of 
incompetent but pompous you know

216
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,320
and I love the writing that that
was gotten Simpson wasn't I 

217
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:32,840
present wrote that I presume and
it was that was that was very 

218
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,480
different it was an influence in
in in I liked him. 

219
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,720
I didn't say it's influenced me 
but that writing was you know 

220
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,720
and you see it in Step 2 and son
as well that sort of really it's

221
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,080
as real as it could be. 
You know very boring mundane 

222
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,720
situations and we're with funny 
character with sort of engaging 

223
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,760
or not laughable characters in. 
But it's fun. 

224
00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,480
I should say that because when I
first got into the idea that I 

225
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,840
wanted to write so you know I 
wrote the sketch for the school 

226
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,960
Review and when, you know having
absorbed all these influences 

227
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,280
and I started watching 
television differently, I like 

228
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,040
we'd watch. 
I start watching it and I want 

229
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,160
the first credit I want to see 
was who wrote it. 

230
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,200
You know as I said so it's 
Goldman Simpson or Wolf and 

231
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,320
Chesney or Esmond and Larby or 
all those you know famous names 

232
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,720
from that time you know and and 
that was what was obsessing 

233
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,360
myself looked and you then you 
know Golden Simpson wrote that 

234
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,160
and wrote that and Wolf and 
Chesney wrote that and that you 

235
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,680
know and Esmond and Lavi wrote 
that and and you saw these names

236
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,200
you know coming up all the time 
and and I thought so actually I 

237
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,640
assumed that you had to write in
a partnership and I did most of 

238
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,120
my sketch writing with with 
somebody else. 

239
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,320
You know Jimmy Melville off no 
Clive Anderson. 

240
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:50,040
Martin Bergman later and And the
thing about going back to the 

241
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,200
Bob Sinfield, and I'm sorry that
again I said to Bob, I said, 

242
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,880
look, who are these people? 
You know, I've never, you know, 

243
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,840
they're not they're not sort of 
comedians like you'd see on, you

244
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,080
know. 
You know tell me a joke or the 

245
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,760
comedians that stand. 
They're not they. 

246
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,600
They're sort of the something 
quite, you know. 

247
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,240
He said, oh, they're all 
graduates from Cambridge. 

248
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,280
They're in the Footlights. 
And I said, you know, we're 

249
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,720
living in Cornwall in the 1890s.
I know the 1950s as I was. 

250
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,800
You don't know how to work. 
What's Footlights? 

251
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,480
Oh, it's Footlights. 
It's a it's a comedy club in 

252
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,200
Cambridge and I thought wow 
that's interesting. 

253
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,240
And and in my naivety well first
I thought Cambridge must be in 

254
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,960
London because when you live in 
Cornwall you think anything 

255
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,360
beyond Plymouth is in London you
know so that you know so I'm 

256
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,600
looking on the map and thought 
God Cambridge is it's not it's 

257
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,200
it's it's well it's well outside
London. 

258
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,560
You know it's amazing. 
But in my naivety I thought what

259
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,200
you needed to do to do that sort
of work was to go to Cambridge 

260
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:53,520
and join the Footlights. 
And so I just about scraped the 

261
00:15:53,560 --> 00:16:00,120
A levels needed went to 
Cambridge and I remember the the

262
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,160
the I don't know if you know 
they have a big fair for the 

263
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,560
first years the freshers as they
call when all the societies have

264
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,720
their stores as societies fair. 
And I went straight to the 

265
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,520
Footlights and there was a man 
on the Footlights store wearing 

266
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,360
a kilt a sort of thinning blonde
bloke who turns out to be Clive 

267
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,800
Anderson who was the then 
president. 

268
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,640
And I said what do you want. 
And I said oh hello my name is 

269
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,920
Roy McGrath and I'm from 
Emmanuel at college and I want 

270
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:29,960
to be. 
He said what do you want to do. 

271
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,800
He said I want to be a writer, 
Clive said. 

272
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,480
I mean, just just the very job 
for you here. 

273
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,040
He gave me a piece of paper and 
a pen. 

274
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,000
Write your name and a college on
that piece of paper and give it 

275
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,120
to me and I'll throw it in the 
bin. 

276
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,840
That's how it started, right. 
And I thought, oh, fuck him, you

277
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,480
know, and he's wearing a kilt, 
you know, he's obviously not 

278
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,640
Scotsman. 
So I actually didn't. 

279
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,240
I I went off Footlights and were
in my college. 

280
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,960
There was AI was speaking to 
some people and they said, oh, 

281
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,600
I'm interested in. 
I went to the foot. 

282
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:58,840
I didn't. 
I'm not really interested in 

283
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,960
Footlights anymore because it's 
obviously run by twats, so. 

284
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,520
Clive Anderson could have 
prevented you from getting into 

285
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,240
comedy. 
Yeah, yeah, he regrets. 

286
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,680
He knows the story well and he 
says I hear he regrets that he 

287
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:19,560
wasn't harder on me. 
He apologizes to showbiz and I 

288
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,280
was these people said to me in 
asking around college. 

289
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,200
I said we've got somebody in 
college who's he's head of the 

290
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,080
ADC that's the amateur dramatic 
club and he's been in Footlights

291
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,560
and he's in all the theaters 
societies. 

292
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,720
And I said he's, he says he's a 
guy called Griff Reese Jones. 

293
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,800
And I thought, oh I'll go and 
see him. 

294
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,560
So I went round with a friend of
mine went and after 4 halls 

295
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,920
we're looking really like 
pillocks wearing our gowns and 

296
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:50,120
shirt and tie and knocked on the
Griff's door And this surprising

297
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,120
it was nothing like what I 
expected. 

298
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,280
Huge sort of Donovan type long 
black hair and it was quite 

299
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,920
short which surprised me and 
actually and said oh hello we're

300
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,520
here to talk about Footlights. 
You know what You know we came 

301
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,400
in and sat down and I noticed 
there was an empty whiskey 

302
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,160
bottle lying on the floor and 
that's a long time ago for Griff

303
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,600
and he said what the fuck do you
want to join Footlights for 

304
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:27,000
terrible. 
And I think in in that sort of 

305
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,320
in sort of mid 70s, punk was 
taking off and there was an 

306
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,920
energy in the youth which wasn't
Cambridge blokes and striking 

307
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,760
Blazers and boaters singing 
songs about, you know, how you 

308
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,880
know how bad the Labour 
government is, you know, things 

309
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,440
like that. 
And so Footlights actually, 

310
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,200
sorry, I didn't mean to go on 
about Footlights so much, but it

311
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,280
seemed to sort of be in abeyance
for a while. 

312
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:57,000
It was kept on going by Chris 
Keakley who was a who was a 

313
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:02,120
northern biochemist from Sydney 
Sussex College who just about 

314
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:06,440
kept it going and he handed the 
presidency to Jimmy Melville who

315
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,920
was a I've got to know through a
mutual friend in in in my 

316
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,280
college very well. 
And Jimmy and I used to hang out

317
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,440
all the time and I I got on well
with him because he was, he was 

318
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,440
a sort of, you know, that the 
risk of being problematically 

319
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,240
racist. 
He was a typical Scouser, you 

320
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,160
know, very, very fast talk and 
you know, and what a joke, you 

321
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,920
know, always, you know, quite 
aggressive and, you know, you 

322
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,680
know, very frontal to people, 
very, you know, he didn't, you 

323
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,320
know, very insulting and in a 
very amusing way. 

324
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,200
And this, this, this tickled me 
greatly, you know, You stupid 

325
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,680
bastard. 
You got me killed and wrote off 

326
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,680
an 80 grand Porsche Carrera. 
Is it happening in slow motion, 

327
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,160
like you're bloody driving? 
Hey, we got on very well. 

328
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:59,000
So Footlights was held together 
by me and Jimmy and we managed 

329
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,320
to do a review which was 
directed by Douglas Adams, of 

330
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,560
all people. 
And that was called Kick in the 

331
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,680
Stalls, I think, which I wrote 
for. 

332
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,280
I wasn't in it, but I remember 
it's been talking about Douglas 

333
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,480
a lot lately because he's just, 
there's been a book I don't even

334
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,280
heard of it called 42, which is 
a compilation of all his stuff. 

335
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,080
And I remember that in the 
program note, I wrote the 

336
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,880
program notes for people who was
in it, you know, trying to be 

337
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:34,880
funny and who'd written it. 
But Douglas said I wasn't 

338
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,320
allowed to write my own program 
notes as one of the writers, so 

339
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:43,440
he said he'd write it. 
And I remember he wrote with a 

340
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,880
picture of me looking very hairy
and beardy as I was in those 

341
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,000
days. 
And Douglas wrote and on the 

342
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,920
eighth day God said what the 
fuck And created Rory McGrath. 

343
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,760
So which I which I know people 
it it's it. 

344
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,000
I'm so. 
I mean Douglas went on to be 

345
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,720
world famous, as you know and so
I've. 

346
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,120
I'm extremely flattered by that 
and I've still got the program 

347
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,240
somewhere I think. 
Sorry my phone is still. 

348
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,160
I'll put it on silently. 
That's all right. 

349
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,600
I was, I was going to come to 
this later but you've mentioned 

350
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,040
Jimmy Mulville now and I know 
that there was a time when you 

351
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,520
the two of you were a bit 
distant, but I but you've come 

352
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,920
come back together and in recent
years ago we told. 

353
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,080
Him. 
We'd come back together. 

354
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,320
Well, we had a we had a falling 
out I think is the polite way of

355
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,680
putting it. 
And didn't speak for a long 

356
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,120
time. 
And then we both turned 60 and 

357
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:41,040
thought let's talk, talk again. 
And we're now, we're really good

358
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,560
friends now. 
I mean it was you know it's been

359
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,720
a joy and we got on exactly the 
same way. 

360
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,240
Obviously our our lives has gone
slightly different ways but you 

361
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:56,200
know it's it's instantly when we
decided to either we'd begin and

362
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,240
bury the hatchet and not in each
other's heads. 

363
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,320
It was it was it was great joy. 
It was just like it was like 

364
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,040
rediscovering if you like Kimmy 
from For new again. 

365
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,280
You know, it was just like the 
old times and instantly we were 

366
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,080
taking the piss out of people 
and and really annoying people 

367
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,640
and amusing each other at other 
people's expense in front of 

368
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,240
them. 
And the the, the sort of the 

369
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:32,000
foot, the impetus for it came on
Jimmy's 60th birthday when he 

370
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,480
got me Clive. 
Well, he wanted it to be me, Me,

371
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,720
Clive Griff. 
Peter Fincham, Yeah. 

372
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,000
And I thought this would be 
awkward because it's basically 

373
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,680
the first time I'd have spoken 
to Jimmy in about 20 years or 

374
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,520
however many. 
I can't remember how many years 

375
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,680
was 17 years. 
And so I said to him, I said, 

376
00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,240
Jim, I said, listen, we need to 
meet before the dinner because 

377
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,760
it, you know, we can't have all 
those elephants in the room 

378
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,720
wandering around at once. 
We're going to have to get rid 

379
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,160
of one of them. 
So we met in a pub beforehand. 

380
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,440
He wasn't drinking then. 
He hasn't drunk for a long time.

381
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:19,480
I was drinking, I have drunk for
a long time and we we just said,

382
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,680
I said, you know, I'm sorry to 
do this, but I just didn't 

383
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,240
think, given what's happened 
between us. 

384
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,560
I can't. 
And we had a lovely chat. 

385
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,640
Quite emotional. 
I think that's the word of the 

386
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,720
day, isn't that emotional? 
We got emotional. 

387
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:37,640
We was, well, emotional and we 
went to the to the back, to the 

388
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,560
to the room, whether well we 
joined the others in the room. 

389
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,320
We're having dinner and it was 
just hilarious. 

390
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,880
It was, you know, in fact it was
stopped at one point. 

391
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,400
My Griff, it was the usual butt 
of our, our jokes. 

392
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,480
He suddenly said. 
Fucking hell, I preferred it 

393
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,920
when they weren't speaking to 
each other. 

394
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,440
A very irritable man. 
Griffey's Jazz. 

395
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,600
He does good irrit. 
Yeah. 

396
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,920
Irritability he does. 
I first saw you again, back to 

397
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,600
Jimmy. 
I probably think I would have 

398
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,880
first seen you on Who Dares 
Wins. 

399
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,880
Now I as you may have guessed 
from my accent, I wasn't born in

400
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,560
this country. 
I'm from New Zealand originally.

401
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,760
I thought you're from New 
Zealand and in fact I was going 

402
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,000
to wait for a bit longer before 
I said oh you're from New 

403
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,520
Zealand because I didn't want to
do that thing of of saying, oh 

404
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,800
he's he's definitely Australian 
or from New Zealand. 

405
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,080
And I I think I can actually 
hear the difference. 

406
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,840
And I thought, I, you know, it's
New Zealand. 

407
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,200
I yeah, I normally find that if 
you, if you go in New Zealand 

408
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,400
first, that people are happier 
because if you're from New 

409
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,880
Zealand, they like it. 
And if they're Australian, then 

410
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,360
they sort of, well, that's not 
too bad, you know, it's, you 

411
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,000
know, but if you do it the other
way around, it's worse. 

412
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,960
It's like calling Canadians 
Americans, you know, if you call

413
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,520
an American a Canadian, you 
know, if you call an American a 

414
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,840
Canadian, they they love it. 
But it doesn't work the other 

415
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,320
way around. 
I've had South African, I've had

416
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,560
all sorts over the years. 
You're not South African. 

417
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840
No. 
But who dares wins was was a 

418
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,400
real. 
I mean, I would. 

419
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,760
I was a teenager in the 80s, so 
in 80 when it's that 84, so 85, 

420
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,280
yes, about. 
Then. 

421
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,960
So I would have been, I would 
have been about 10/11/12, maybe 

422
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,240
a bit older and and I absolutely
loved it. 

423
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,840
But I knew I couldn't. 
I couldn't watch it when my dad 

424
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,920
was around, you know, because it
was a bit, it was a bit naughty,

425
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,080
it was a bit crude, he said. 
Bonking a lot, I seem to. 

426
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,600
Remember. 
Yeah, Bonking was the word at 

427
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,280
the time. 
Yeah. 

428
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,600
My memory is that there was a 
lot of opportunities for Tony 

429
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,880
Robinson to strip naked. 
Well, the. 

430
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,720
Best Tony he was. 
Well, we worked this sketch 

431
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,160
which we, which I think we'd 
originally done on radio on a 

432
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,840
radio series. 
It's called Injury Time for the 

433
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:56,680
BBC, Which Jimmy is Me. 
Jimmy Who came and the girls. 

434
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,600
It was me, Jimmy. 
Julia Hills probably yeah. 

435
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,960
And Bob Bathurst and Martin 
Bergman I think. 

436
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,040
God, I can't remember who did in
juju. 

437
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:11,120
But anyway we've written this 
sketch about two Taylors which 

438
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:15,080
now would be would be considered
anti-Semitic because it was me 

439
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,800
and Jimmy playing these two. 
So East End Jewish dailers, you 

440
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,240
know, and I don't think we could
do it now. 

441
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,640
And the idea was that they were 
the people who made the suit for

442
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,560
the emperor. 
And so we needed, you know. 

443
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,000
And when we direct, it's easier 
on radio because you say, oh, 

444
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,280
emperor, emperor, The suit is 
looking lovely. 

445
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,600
It's looking lovely. 
Look at, oh, look at that. 

446
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,120
And the emperor saying don't, it
feels a bit light to me. 

447
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:43,040
It's a material. 
You know, we thought I said to, 

448
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,800
I said to when we're doing who 
does wins. 

449
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,840
I said to Andy Hamilton, the 
producer. 

450
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,320
I said we should do that sketch 
that we did on radio, that the 

451
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,520
Emperor's New Clothes sketch, 
you know, the Sturgeon Brothers 

452
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,720
And. 
And he said, well, we're going 

453
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,040
to need someone excite all the 
clothes because we agreed it 

454
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,440
would only work. 
There's no point in pretending 

455
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,400
it only work if someone was 
happy. 

456
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:11,480
And dear old Tony, Sir Tony as 
we now call him, he'd say I 

457
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,720
didn't mind and they asked you, 
it's it's my, I'm an actor and 

458
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,120
he was always reminding us he 
was an actor and we weren't and 

459
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,360
you know, nakedness, it's just 
another costume. 

460
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:23,480
He said it's just another 
costume. 

461
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,000
I'm glad he did it superbly. 
He did just walk out stalkers in

462
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,000
the studio and of course the 
audience. 

463
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,440
What the sketch always works 
after that Because you can't 

464
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,360
really. 
You've got off to a very good 

465
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,560
start, you know? 
It's a lovely color. 

466
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,440
Beautiful color. 
Yeah, this is lovely. 

467
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,400
But Pink's a bit summary, isn't 
it? 

468
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,280
Well, that's the clever thing. 
You see in the winter. 

469
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,920
It turns blue. 
But is it me? 

470
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,440
It's definitely you With 
Hopkins, Yes. 

471
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:54,560
I'm not sure my wife will like 
it. 

472
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,000
And she's paying for it. 
It's it's a birthday suit. 

473
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,600
Cash, cash, All Visa. 
Mr. Hopkins. 

474
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,280
There's a hole in it. 
Look, that's a button. 

475
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,800
We, we we do take checks as 
well. 

476
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,920
It's got a bit of fluff in it. 
Isn't that always the way? 

477
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,200
I bet it's blue. 
What's that? 

478
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:22,960
That dangly thing down there? 
That piece of sartorial whimsy? 

479
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:31,240
Exactly. 
I have something similar on one 

480
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,680
of my suits and any smaller they
look ridiculous. 

481
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,760
I don't think I like it. 
I'm sorry. 

482
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,520
I'll cut it off. 
I loved them. 

483
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,480
I loved Who Deals with. 
I love the theme tune. 

484
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,720
Best theme music ever. 
That's the old thing. 

485
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,800
Yeah, I know Phil Pope wrote 
that and my who I've worked with

486
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,760
a lot musically, you know, it's 
great tune. 

487
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,760
You know it was who dares wins 
the three. 

488
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,480
It was going to be a song, but 
the instrumental sounded so 

489
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,680
good. 
Yeah, Phil is too talented. 

490
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,960
This is my thing about Phil. 
He's too talented to be 

491
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,600
successful. 
I mean, he has had, you know, 

492
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,160
quite, you know, considerable 
success. 

493
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,760
But he's too good a musician. 
He's a brilliant pianist. 

494
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,720
He's a brilliant singer. 
He's a brilliant composer. 

495
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000
He's a brilliant arranger. 
He's a fantastic impressionist. 

496
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,600
He's a really good mimic and 
he's a great actor, you know, 

497
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,000
he. 
But yeah, I think just one of 

498
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,960
the I said, Phil, choose one of 
those things and you'll be world

499
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,440
famous. 
Yet, well, he's not not well 

500
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,040
enough known. 
You know, the the public at 

501
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,640
large think if they think of who
dares wins or if they think of 

502
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,280
even Chelmsford 123, they think 
of you and Jimmy. 

503
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,240
They don't necessarily think of 
Phillip Pope. 

504
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,880
Do you know what? 
When when I did, I did a musical

505
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,520
tour with Phil. 
We were just going out, just the

506
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,120
two of us, with our guitars, 
singing my obscene songs. 

507
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,680
That what, what, what? 
People know him mostly as the 

508
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,880
guy in Only Fools and Horses. 
Yes. 

509
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,320
Yeah. 
Sing the the the Tony, Tony 

510
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,760
Rome. 
What's he called? 

511
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,240
Like Tony Romero or something, 
Something like that, yes. 

512
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,920
And it it it can't promote his 
art, You know he. 

513
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,880
He's also. 
He has to sing. 

514
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,600
Rosemary is the song he has to 
sing, and he can't pronounce his

515
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:31,080
arse rose. 
Also know him from Blackadder's 

516
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,560
Christmas. 
Yeah, he played. 

517
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,480
Did he played Leonardo da Vinci 
or something? 

518
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Ah, well, actually he So he's in
back at his Christmas Carol as 

519
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,440
Lord Nelson. 
It's possible, yeah. 

520
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,800
And he was also in Blackouted 2 
as Leonardo Acropolis. 

521
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,640
Yeah. 
Yes, I am a genius. 

522
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,080
Well, the most famous portrait 
painter in England. 

523
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,480
Mr. Leonardo Acropolis. 
Right. 

524
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,600
Are you any good? 
No, I am a Jane Neo. 

525
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,200
Well you better be or you're 
dead. 

526
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,000
One of the funniest things I 
have the most crazy things I've 

527
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,840
done. 
But this this is a this is a 

528
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,920
lovely lovely event. 
I I was doing this radio show 

529
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,400
about about languages, about 
minority languages because I you

530
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,840
know, I'm very interested in 
languages did languages at uni 

531
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:33,640
etcetera and it was ostensibly 
about Cornish, which is a nearly

532
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,880
dead language. 
Well it is virtually dead. 

533
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,480
It's in comatose language I 
think it is And this radio 

534
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,200
producer wanted to do a program 
about minority languages. 

535
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,080
So languages which are 
threatened or minority like 

536
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Britain in France and the 
Pharaoh, Pharaoh, Ease or 

537
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,680
Frisian, all these will say me 
and all these sort of European 

538
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,520
languages which are just 
clinging on. 

539
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:08,400
And while I was doing this the 
producer had come across this 

540
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,480
event called The Sun's Europe. 
I can't remember what Sun stands

541
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,720
for, but it's the Eurovision 
Song Contest for minority 

542
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,120
languages And so he said, 
wouldn't it be great addition to

543
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,800
the program? 
It's only Half hour radio 

544
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,240
documentary. 
If you write a song in Cornish 

545
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,720
or you write a song kind of 
translated into Cornish and we 

546
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,840
get you into this thing. 
And I I had an old song line, 

547
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,880
quite a serious song quite a 
pretty tune apparently which I 

548
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,280
had translated into Cornish by 
by someone this professor they 

549
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,400
found in Cornwall. 
And I said to Phil, Phil, dear, 

550
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200
do you want to come to Udine for
a long weekend? 

551
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,640
It's North Italy, just north of 
Venice, where they speak 

552
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,240
Friulian. 
It's their minority language, 

553
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,120
which is not Italian, very 
similar, not Venetian, which is 

554
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,440
also different from Italian, but
not Friulian. 

555
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,960
So. 
And it's a wire. 

556
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,680
So we're taking part in the 
minority languages Eurovision 

557
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:16,560
Song Contest and we're singing 
with a Cornish entry and so, So 

558
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,320
Phil, my Phil and myself, Phil 
was playing keyboards and 

559
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,760
recorder, not at the same time 
we had a girl who was production

560
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,920
assistant playing cello and me 
on the guitar and we sang this, 

561
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,320
this song which came respectable
about half. 

562
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:39,440
I think we're about fifth out of
10 people, but it was a huge 

563
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,640
audience about 4000 people in 
this huge concert hall in Udine.

564
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,080
It's the biggest, biggest crowd 
ever had. 

565
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,800
They're coming on singing this, 
this this coolest song, you 

566
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,640
know, it's the most surreal 
thing ever. 

567
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,720
And and. 
Of course, no one would have 

568
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,240
known who you and Phil were. 
I guess, don't you know, they 

569
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,880
didn't have no clue. 
So, and it was peculiar. 

570
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:05,160
So we were the Russian judge, 
bless her, gave us full mark. 

571
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,760
She said, you know they marked 
you out of each one out of 10. 

572
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,280
And the only 10 we got was from 
the Russian judge who said I 

573
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,920
thought this song was very 
beautiful, but you know, it was 

574
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,960
too short. 
We will need more, more music 

575
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,040
from you. 
It's beautiful song but too 

576
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,679
short. 
Otherwise you ought to win. 

577
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,040
I'll take that to my great 
brilliant. 

578
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,280
I've done lots of peculiar 
things, you know, which I've got

579
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,199
to do, you know, from being on I
mainly for who does not who does

580
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:35,960
wins. 
Yes. 

581
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,760
And they think it's all over. 
Which which was ludicrously 

582
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,360
because it was the the first 
sports program which was taking 

583
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,159
the piss out of sports programs.
It was enormously, it took off 

584
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,280
in a way that none of us 
predicted. 

585
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,960
And it's been, you know, 
followed. 

586
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:54,159
Can I? 
Yeah. 

587
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,640
I'll be honest with you, I I I'm
not a sporty person. 

588
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,320
I'm from New Zealand, but I'm 
not interested in sport. 

589
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,640
I don't even follow football or 
cricket or rugby or anything 

590
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,240
like that. 
OK. 

591
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,680
So I used to you know because in
the 90s you you couldn't move 

592
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,680
for comedy panel shows on TV, 
could you They were the ones 

593
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,640
that there were loads that of 
nearly rands but there were the 

594
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,920
there was a sort of the three or
four that survived. 

595
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,520
There was there was that they 
they think it's all over. 

596
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,920
There was obviously I think the 
one that sparked off have I got 

597
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,680
news for you Buzz Cocks. 
And. 

598
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,720
But, but, but so I never really,
because I'm really not into 

599
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:32,120
sport. 
I never really watched. 

600
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,880
They think it's all over. 
But yeah, I mean, you were huge.

601
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,840
I mean your profile was huge 
back then in. 

602
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,720
Fact you know I I didn't take it
very seriously that I mean it's 

603
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,760
and I think that's I didn't 
really sort of you know and they

604
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,000
say you know if the door opens 
for you you know keep your foot 

605
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,600
in it I was because I think I 
think the most famous I've felt 

606
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:05,000
if that's if that's a true thing
was when we toured who does wins

607
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,520
we did two UK tours with the 
stage show based on all the best

608
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,720
bits including Tony coming on 
stage naked and that was you 

609
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,800
know I was talking to Julia 
Hills about it the other day and

610
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:19,800
she said it was like being rock 
stars because and then people 

611
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,360
knew the everyone knew the 
sketches you know the panda 

612
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,000
sketches and you know the 
emperor's new clothes they they 

613
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,640
they almost they just couldn't 
wait to they're here now 

614
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,440
everybody knew the words except 
for Tony Robinson of course you 

615
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,800
can never remember any of them 
but yeah. 

616
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,200
What they think, they think it's
all over. 

617
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,080
I seem to remember there was 
some kind. 

618
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,640
Was there some mild controversy 
when Lee Hurst left? 

619
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,680
Like, do you know what? 
I can't remember What? 

620
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,440
I don't know why Lee left. 
I I think it was. 

621
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,920
I think he got fed up with it. 
I don't. 

622
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,480
I don't think he was he wasn't 
pushed as far as I can remember.

623
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,960
There may have been a quite hard
to work with we got on very well

624
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,520
but and I, you know we were on 
the same side as it were but I 

625
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,600
had production people say he's 
quite exact thing to work for. 

626
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,640
He liked, he likes to do things 
his way, you know? 

627
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,440
Do you still keep in contact? 
I haven't seen. 

628
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,960
I saw him last year. 
It was earlier on this year we 

629
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,440
did a celebrity pointless. 
Was it pointless? 

630
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:31,760
Yeah yeah. 
Celebrity pointless. 

631
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,360
Which we came second in you know
anyway. 

632
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,520
But no he's great. 
He's and I like he. 

633
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,120
He is. 
He's a one off Lee. 

634
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,240
I tell you what he's as a stand 
up he is he's he's so unlike any

635
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:48,560
other stand up you see nowadays.
You know that because it's my 

636
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,960
mind stand ups got very 
predictable and it's strangely 

637
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,240
safe. 
You know, I'm not shocked by 

638
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,280
anything stand up say, and I 
want to be shocked. 

639
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,040
I want them to say something I 
hadn't thought of or something 

640
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,040
that hasn't been said. 
But there seems to be a sort of,

641
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:09,360
I don't know how what you'd call
it but there seems to be a risk 

642
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,440
aversion with comedy nowadays 
that people are too frightened 

643
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,720
and let apart from the usual 
quite safe targets. 

644
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:20,360
You know, it seems to be yes. 
I think safe and I don't. 

645
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,080
I don't think I always wanted to
comedy to be offensive but now 

646
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,680
giving offence is, you know, 
well should I say taking offence

647
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,360
is a sort of national pastime 
that it's very hard for for 

648
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,000
comedians to you know, to say. 
Because some of the things we 

649
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,040
did on Who dares wins or you 
know some of the things we said 

650
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,280
on they think it's all over. 
It was, yeah, outrageous. 

651
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,520
And you just couldn't, I'd like,
you know, feel a sportsman and 

652
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,760
it's, you know, a woman in the 
bikini and, you know, it's it's 

653
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,400
just the idea of two men with 
blindfolds on, you know, trying 

654
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,920
to guess the identity of, you 
know, a pom pom girl. 

655
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,440
You know it. 
I don't think it. 

656
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,000
I don't think it would. 
It would manage it nowadays, you

657
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,160
know, go back to the goons. 
That's what I when I heard the 

658
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:13,480
Goon Show first, I thought I was
hearing violence, obscenity, 

659
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:17,240
chaos and you know and sort of 
sedition. 

660
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,200
That's what it felt like. 
Even though if you examine the 

661
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,200
individual words there was just 
something about it which is this

662
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,360
is crazy. 
You know this is dangerous and 

663
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,600
but it's probably to our to our 
sort of modern era it's quite 

664
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,120
twig in a way. 
There's a there's a there's a 

665
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,440
tradition in writing for radio 
because they were, which has 

666
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,560
gone right through to the 
present day because I'm still, I

667
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,800
still keep in touch with a lot 
of the writers who do. 

668
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,240
I'm sorry I haven't a clue which
is, you know, which is a sort of

669
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:50,000
that sort of it's a sort of 
national institution in the way.

670
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,800
I'm sorry, I'll read that again.
Never was. 

671
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,240
You know I said I'm sorry and 
people don't know really why 

672
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:55,160
it's called. 
I'm sorry. 

673
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,920
When it first took off when it 
was Humphrey Littleton and 

674
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,440
they're allowed to talk about 
Samantha. 

675
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,880
You know it was I mean it's 
highly how intensely scripted 

676
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:08,320
show but but that doesn't come 
across because you know of the 

677
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,760
guests but but Barry crying was 
all my heroes. 

678
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:19,480
Barry Cryer, I think Barry Cryer
is, he's one of those people 

679
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,680
that we're talking about, Peter 
Cook and an anarchists in. 

680
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,480
Barry Cryer, even though he, you
know, he was a, you know, sort 

681
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,800
of gag slave to every show. 
You know, if you needed a good 

682
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,800
comic head on it, he got very 
crying because he knew every 

683
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,040
joke in the world. 
But he was also very anarchic. 

684
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,560
He just, he didn't know every 
joke in the world, Barry. 

685
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,920
And he was, it's similar to 
Peter Cook. 

686
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,840
He was loved by the young 
people, people coming into the 

687
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,760
even though Barry Cry was an old
man that he would, he actually, 

688
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,760
he clicked with young people, as
did Peter Cook all the time, you

689
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,240
know, because he is something a 
bit sort of timeless and ageless

690
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:08,160
and and still anarchic. 
About Barry Cryer, I remember, 

691
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,880
you know, and I was, you know, 
in a pub with him once and said,

692
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,440
you know, Barry, you know when 
when I was a little boy looking 

693
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,080
at comedy on television, I'd see
your name or a script editor or 

694
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,560
a script writer, You're on 
Joker's Wild, you know, telling 

695
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,160
Gags. 
You know it's it's. 

696
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,240
Smoking, Smoking in, yeah. 
That's right. 

697
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:26,960
He did smoke. 
Yeah, he did a smoke all the 

698
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,560
time. 
He said. 

699
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,760
He said, oh, no, Rory, no, I'm 
not me. 

700
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,000
No, actually, what you don't 
realize Rory is they put me on 

701
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,680
any old show, you see, and I'm 
basically crap, you know, I'm 

702
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,920
crap Mr. Crap. 
That's what I call this. 

703
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,480
I'm Mr. Crap because I do any 
old crap, you know. 

704
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,480
And I thought, well, that's, I 
think you're putting yourself 

705
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,240
down there. 
And he'd just been about a year 

706
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:53,800
later. 
I was he, he'd just been, he'd 

707
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,560
been at some ceremony, the only 
one on the ward. 

708
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,440
He might even got an AB or 
something. 

709
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,000
I can't remember what it was. 
But he was coming back to the 

710
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,120
offices where we worked and we 
were going to the pub and he, he

711
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,440
was, you know quite chuffed to 
have got this award, whatever it

712
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,560
was. 
And I, he came in the pub and I 

713
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,920
said to him, Mr. Crap, what can 
I get you to drink? 

714
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:23,200
And he said it's Lord crap to 
you was excellent. 

715
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,560
Yeah. 
Putney Bridge. 

716
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:32,080
Cleveland St. 
Harold and Wheelston, Angel. 

717
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:45,000
Pimlico congestion. 
Yeah, yeah, Pimlico. 

718
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,360
No, no, no, no. 
No. 

719
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,120
No, no, no, no. 
It's only just outside, yes. 

720
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,560
Yeah. 
But it was the new standard. 

721
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,400
Living syndromes Forfeit. 
Forfeit. 

722
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,440
Yes. 
Yeah. 

723
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,520
Who said it anyway? 
Barry it. 

724
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,920
Sounded very like Barry. 
Barry said it. 

725
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:04,360
Yeah, Yeah. 
No, it wasn't Barry. 

726
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,000
You in Kerry forfeit. 
It's like the Dreyfus case all 

727
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,280
over again. 
This is terrible. 

728
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,040
You in Kerry forfeit. 
Got off that time, didn't you? 

729
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:13,960
You see that? 
You see. 

730
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,880
You see that bottle of water in 
front of you? 

731
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,800
Will you take a large swig out 
of it? 

732
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,480
Oh, no. 
Oh. 

733
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,920
Often wondered what it tasted 
like. 

734
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:36,560
David Quantic described Barry 
Cryer as being he said he was 

735
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,240
unique in that he wasn't 
frightened of the younger comics

736
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,960
like so many of his. 
Generation, maybe that's what it

737
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:43,480
is. 
Yeah. 

738
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,640
He embraced that. 
You know, he likes seeing new 

739
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,920
comics and they like singing. 
Yeah. 

740
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,320
Now he's very, very funny. 
Did he ever tell you that story?

741
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,000
Barry cried. 
Did he ever tell you that story 

742
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,960
about when he spoke to Marilyn 
Monroe? 

743
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,440
It was in the 50s. 
It was when she was. 

744
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,160
Was she in the UK filming The 
Prince and the Showgirl, I think

745
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,720
with Laurence Olivier and Barry 
had some job in A film 

746
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:09,400
production office or something 
like that. 

747
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,360
And he was manning the phones 
and she phoned up to speak to 

748
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,320
somebody in the office and Barry
took the call and the guy that 

749
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,320
she wanted to speak to wasn't 
wasn't available immediately. 

750
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,080
So Barry had to sort of do small
talk with her for about 3 

751
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,360
minutes on the phone and he he 
was dining out in that story up 

752
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,560
to the day he died I think. 
I knew the 1st, I know he was. 

753
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:34,960
He tells the story about the 
first time he worked and I think

754
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,880
it was probably Yorkshire 
television or something, because

755
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,120
he's from Leeds, isn't he? 
He was, he was filling in during

756
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,200
the recording breaks of a chat 
show and Noël Coward was the 

757
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,240
guest and you know, he was 
always talking about that 

758
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:51,840
meeting Noël Coward in his early
days. 

759
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,520
And Barry was great and full of 
anecdotes, of course. 

760
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,400
When I was, when I first started
working with Frankie Howard, 

761
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,600
yeah, it's my first professional
job at the university, actually,

762
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,560
I got a job at the BBC as a 
house writer, which meant you 

763
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,440
had to write for any shows that 
were going. 

764
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,800
And the first thing that was 
coming up, you know, was the 

765
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,160
Franken variety show, which is 
a, you know, as it was a variety

766
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:18,480
of comedians, singers, bands, 
you know, and what links from 

767
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,320
Franken monologue to kick it off
and then links all the way 

768
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,040
through and ending one along. 
And it was a baptism of fire in 

769
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,280
many ways because he was quite a
difficult man to work, very 

770
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,920
suspicious of new people, you 
know, he. 

771
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,360
But he hated Gotham. 
Simpson. 

772
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,280
When he they used to write for 
him. 

773
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,520
They said they still get 
nowhere. 

774
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,680
And then when we joined me and 
Jimmy and Clive and Griff, he 

775
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,400
was also when he got Simpson, 
you know, not these young 

776
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,600
people. 
They're rubbish. 

777
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,280
Did he chase you around his 
dressing room at all? 

778
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,920
Yeah. 
And he, he did invite me. 

779
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,680
I went to this story is in the 
public domain, so I don't think 

780
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,200
he, he rang me up in the office 
and said I'm not happy about his

781
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,880
script. 
I said, what do you mean Frank, 

782
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,560
The script, I'm not happy about 
it. 

783
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,960
I need to speak to you about it.
And I thought, this is odd 

784
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,200
because we hadn't actually sent 
him the script for that week, 

785
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,640
you know, And I said we haven't 
actually sent you the script yet

786
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,640
because we haven't finished it. 
And me and Jimmy are in the 

787
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,600
office going. 
He said, no, no, no, no, no. 

788
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,440
I don't mean that script. 
I mean, I want to talk to you 

789
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,400
about the way the show is going.
And I thought I said, well, 

790
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,400
we're only in in Broadcasting 
House. 

791
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,640
And he was in somewhere in 
Mayfair. 

792
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,840
I said, well, come on. 
No, no, no, no, no, no, Jimmy. 

793
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,240
Just you. 
And I thought, actually, I 

794
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:35,920
didn't think, oh, fuck. 
What does this mean? 

795
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,720
I thought, OK. 
And Jimmy was delighted. 

796
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:39,800
So, yeah, great. 
You go. 

797
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,680
You know. 
And then he locked me in this 

798
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,880
room. 
He locked the office door in 

799
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,560
Robert Stigwood's office. 
It was. 

800
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,320
He worked for Robert Stigwood 
organization in the. 

801
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,480
I don't have to throw Stigwood. 
He was big briefly, wasn't he 

802
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,520
Was the biggest thing. 
It was. 

803
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,160
Frank. 
He was in the Robert Stigwood 

804
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,160
production or produced film. 
Sergeant Pepper. 

805
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,040
Yeah, Sergeant Pepper's film. 
Yes, abysmal it was. 

806
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,360
That gives outgoing, wasn't it? 
I mean, you took looking at one 

807
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,840
of the biggest Beatles fans in 
the world and that was just 

808
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,240
bafflingly bad, doesn't it? 
You think? 

809
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:13,600
How could if they tried to make 
it bad, it wouldn't have been as

810
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,280
bad as that. 
Anyway, So Frankie, how I bet to

811
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,640
cut a Long story short, offered 
me a vodka and tonic. 

812
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,600
You know, only it's about 2:00 
in the afternoon. 

813
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,560
I thought, this is good, you 
know, And the only bottle of 

814
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,440
vodka. 
But a bottle of smirn of 

815
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,280
unopened and a bottle of tonic 
is in the swept tonic water. 

816
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,480
There you go. 
And I said, you said, what's 

817
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,800
wrong, that you did some vodka 
and tonic. 

818
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,840
I said yeah, yeah, I did. 
And that's a bottle of vodka and

819
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,200
that's atomic water. 
I simply got a glass or 

820
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,960
everything as well. 
I don't mind opening it, you 

821
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:52,880
know. 
But yeah, I need a bottle 

822
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,440
opener, you know. 
So I poured myself this vodka, a

823
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,880
tiny bit of tonic in it, and I 
was drinking this singing very 

824
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,720
this is great. 
And I was looking out onto 

825
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:04,880
Bruton. 
I said Bruton Street or on the 

826
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,040
streets some one of those flash 
places in in Mayfair. 

827
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,560
And I'm thinking look, what can 
these people go past? 

828
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:16,040
And here I am in Robert Stigma's
office with a with a quintuple 

829
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,520
and tonic and these people are 
just going about their lives. 

830
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,520
And as I was looking at Frankie 
said, well you should be doing 

831
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,760
this for me. 
And I turned around and he had 

832
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:32,360
his Dick out and was playing 
with himself and I thought, no, 

833
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:37,480
you're right, Frank, you carry 
on so now and I just didn't want

834
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,520
to do and I thought I think it 
was quite looking, but I think 

835
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,280
it was quite frightened. 
Even though it's become such a 

836
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,960
comic, you know, every time I 
tell us what it gets, it becomes

837
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,760
sort of comic. 
More like I tell it to my wife 

838
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,200
who was in you know, who's in. 
It was in social work and and 

839
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,000
child protection. 
You know this is this is 

840
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,520
nowadays You know he'd be in 
jail and you would be in 

841
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,840
counseling and you know he would
you'd be given to see any about 

842
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,640
that you know I thought he's 
just filthy old man and but I 

843
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,880
remember looking out the window 
and said no Frank you carry on. 

844
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,080
I'll let me know when you 
finish. 

845
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,800
You said I'm gonna help me I'll 
be quicker and I thought oh the 

846
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,600
people walking past and I'm 
thinking how do what mind do I 

847
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,240
do now to get this and you're 
Frankie Howard household me up 

848
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,520
Pompei and everything. 
He's having a wink behind me can

849
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:26,280
can. 
I don't know. 

850
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,640
I can't. 
That is an unmindable. 

851
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:33,040
Thing those. 
Those American Pows in Vietnam, 

852
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,560
blinking out messages to the 
folks back home. 

853
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:38,560
That, yeah, that's a great. 
Yeah. 

854
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,160
I never thought about that. 
I don't think. 

855
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,280
I think I would think. 
But the point about this story 

856
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,560
is that I was, you know, and 
he's Frank. 

857
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,720
He was, I'm sorry about. 
I don't know, I'm just being 

858
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:51,280
very depressed lately, you know,
I just couldn't wait to get out.

859
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,240
And I didn't want to tell him 
because I felt quite ashamed 

860
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:55,800
being a good Catholic boy. 
I thought it was my fault and 

861
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,200
I'd done something very bad, you
know and I because it did cross 

862
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,720
my mind. 
I smashed the bottle of vodka 

863
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,840
over his head because but then 
you think the story comes out 

864
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,880
you know national treasure 
Frankie Howard attacked by gay 

865
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:15,080
drunken scriptwriter rent boy we
had great. 

866
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,680
I mean after that we had, I 
think, I hate to use the 

867
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,800
expression the with that cleared
the air, you know, because that 

868
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:23,880
probably isn't the right 
expression. 

869
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,200
But we got on very and we just 
took the piss out and you know, 

870
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:33,560
I remember he took, he took me 
and Jimmy out to the restaurant 

871
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,400
once after the show and it was 
the White Elephant Club. 

872
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,880
It is a big club owned by Ray 
Allington of the Goon Show. 

873
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,360
He was his club and Railington 
had his band, was the the house 

874
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,240
band and met him and that was 
great for me because I thought 

875
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,040
that's Israeling. 
They used to be this, you know, 

876
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,800
really now racist jokes about 
me. 

877
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,640
And I I was just by this, you 
know, and I thought, God, this 

878
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,000
is great. 
But Frankie, Frankie called me 

879
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,160
and Jimmy Pseudo Bohemians. 
He said, you're not. 

880
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,680
You think you're bohemians, but 
you're not. 

881
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,880
No, you're not top of bohemians.
You're pseudo bohemians. 

882
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,760
That's where you pretend you're 
bohemian, but you're not just 

883
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,440
pseudo bohemians. 
And we thought that'd be if we 

884
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,960
ever, if we ever made a rock 
band, we'd call ourselves a 

885
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,040
pseudo bohemian. 
That's a great rock band. 

886
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:24,440
You know, it's heavy metal, 
isn't it? 

887
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,040
So And we said, well, didn't we 
have a clue what he's talking 

888
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,160
about? 
But he said there's a bet for 

889
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,600
you snog each other. 
And I said, what do you mean 

890
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,560
snog each other on? 
You think you're so daring and 

891
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,440
snob gone snog each other. 
And this is in the middle of a 

892
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,280
very crowded restaurant. 
And I looked at Jiminy and I 

893
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,400
could tell in Jimmy's eyes that,
yeah, we're going to do this. 

894
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,640
And Jimmy had this huge tonguey 
snog. 

895
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,400
He was absolutely terrified. 
He's looking, I think I don't 

896
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,280
want this to get out. 
But Jimmy, not one very. 

897
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,440
I was disappointed, actually. 
Jimmy's kissing. 

898
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,960
Did he get beard rash? 
It was. 

899
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,520
I think Jimmy used to smoke 
cigars in those days, so you 

900
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,840
know, she doesn't end anymore. 
But I think, yeah, no, sure. 

901
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:14,560
Sorry. 
We seem to have gone off with 

902
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,920
weird tensions. 
Yeah, well, right again with 

903
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,320
Jimmy Chelmsford 123. 
Just want to mention that 

904
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,040
because I went to live. 
I live with my uncle for a 

905
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:31,400
couple of years in the early 90s
and I don't think Chelmsford 123

906
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,880
made it as far as New Zealand. 
But when I came over to Belfast 

907
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,520
with my uncle, he my uncle was, 
you know, he's quite old. 

908
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,520
He was, you know, in his 60s or 
whatever, but then, but he had 

909
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:48,280
this real love of what I would 
call comedy that you wouldn't 

910
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,640
expect 60 something meant to 
enjoy. 

911
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:58,080
He loved alternative comedy and 
he loved comedy like he loved, I

912
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,040
mean he loved Black Arrow, which
is fine, you know, it's quite 

913
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,880
mainstream, but still. 
But he had stuff recorded, all 

914
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,920
sorts of stuff recorded that you
wouldn't expect, you know. 

915
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:15,680
And he, he had all of Chelmsford
123 and that's where I first saw

916
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,680
it and really enjoyed it. 
And I know that you because one 

917
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,200
of my previous guests on this 
has been Barnaby Eaton Jones, 

918
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,000
and I know he's been involved in
bringing it back. 

919
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,520
Oh dear. 
But yes, they seek him here. 

920
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,760
They seek him there. 
Yeah, Barnaby's great. 

921
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,440
He's been great. 
He's done a couple of podcasts 

922
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:35,360
with us. 
Actually don't know what 

923
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,040
happened to them, but I had to 
rewrite it for him. 

924
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,400
He probably told you this that, 
you know, I he wanted to do it 

925
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,920
as a podcast and I I've Kimmy 
said, oh, that's great. 

926
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,400
Yeah, Rory can rewrite it, you 
know, for, for the for. 

927
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,600
We can't call it radio because 
podcast as you know, not radio. 

928
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,440
They're audio. 
So I thought and I thought, 

929
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,440
yeah, I don't mind doing that 
I'd be good fun because you know

930
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,480
I had all the scripts and had 
all recordings, so but boy what 

931
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,320
a difficult. 
I thought it was so visual. 

932
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,480
It's like we deliberately gone 
as visual as we could and I'm 

933
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:12,800
you know I'm my like going back 
to the influences of I'm sorry 

934
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,760
in the Goon Show I suddenly was 
writing this radio show and 

935
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,640
that's and I really enjoyed it. 
It was very hard work but I 

936
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,760
think the result was very good 
and it but it it was nice to be 

937
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:31,160
back you know writing verbal 
stuff you know little and 

938
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,800
putting new gags in. 
It was really, and without Jimmy

939
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,040
there saying I don't do that, it
was great. 

940
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,920
Of course, I guess you would 
cause Howard Lou Lewis would 

941
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,880
have died by then so. 
Sadly, yeah, we couldn't. 

942
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,400
And his part was done by Barnaby
and Jones, in fact. 

943
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,760
Oh yeah, there we go. 
And he he also did Wolf Bane, 

944
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,960
the Welsh Alchemist, which had 
been played by Jeffrey Mcgiven 

945
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,640
brilliantly on telly. 
I thought he was very funny. 

946
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,160
Was he? 
He did it well, just for some 

947
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,840
reason. 
I don't know why Jeff did it 

948
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,840
that way. 
He just turned up for the, you 

949
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,280
know, for the read through and 
did it. 

950
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,920
So I thought, like, that's all. 
Or this is the most deadly 

951
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,600
portion. 
And they just say, yeah, leave 

952
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,800
it like that, right, Wolf fame. 
This is what I want. 

953
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,600
Whoa. 
Your best purple world and 

954
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,280
plenty of it. 
I want to strike the fear of God

955
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,760
into these people. 
And I want the jawbone of a huge

956
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,800
wolf open with its Fang showing 
for me to wear around my neck as

957
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,840
I charge in a battle. 
Oh yeah, or a shield. 

958
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,960
A big shield with a human skull 
nailed to it, still dripping 

959
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,720
with blood. 
No honeysuckle bath oil. 

960
00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:51,760
Then honeysuckle bath oil soaks 
away those unwanted aches and 

961
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,840
pains. 
I do not want any bath oil. 

962
00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:03,400
All right, Acorn flapjacks, What
a nutty little snack. 

963
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,720
Just give us what we asked for. 
You snot faced Silurian. 

964
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,640
And who the hell do you think 
you are? 

965
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:11,400
They call me Mungo the 
Forgetful. 

966
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,400
Why is that? 
Why is what we met Neil Pearson,

967
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,440
who played Mungo? 
And somebody said, oh, there's 

968
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,360
this new actor. 
He's very young, but he's, you 

969
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,240
know, he's making a bit of a 
stir on the West or whatever he 

970
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:27,400
was doing, called Neil, Neil 
Pearson. 

971
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,880
And with only, you know, get him
to read for Mungo. 

972
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,840
And so we had all the Mungo 
scenes there, mainly with me bad

973
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,040
rock. 
And so we got Neil, he came in 

974
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:42,280
and he looked, you know, it's 
very sort of not cocky but you 

975
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,480
know self very polite, self 
assured. 

976
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:50,240
And I said to him now Neil we 
can do, yeah, through all these 

977
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:52,480
scenes, but we'll do a few, you 
know. 

978
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,600
So I'm going to give you these 
and if you want to go away for 

979
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,800
half an hour into the into the 
green room, whatever, go through

980
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,760
it, you know. 
And he said no, no, no, I don't 

981
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,760
want to do that. 
And I said, oh right, do you 

982
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,360
want to read through them first?
He said no, no, no. 

983
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:11,000
I said, well, you know, it's, 
it's, it's bit, it's the 

984
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,800
character sort of this cheeky, 
smart ass chap. 

985
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,880
Yeah, yeah, that'd be fine. 
And I thought, oh, and I thought

986
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:18,920
Jim and I looked at each other 
and think, oh fucking hell, you 

987
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,320
know, who is? 
Who does this guy think he is? 

988
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:28,480
And so we did every scene and he
was just absolutely perfect. 

989
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,000
It was like, and he had, it was 
unseen. 

990
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,960
He hadn't already had no way he 
could have seen before. 

991
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:39,240
And he the timing was brilliant.
The accent was right, understood

992
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,400
me and, you know, played around 
a bit with the character and we 

993
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,920
said if you want it, it's yours,
mate. 

994
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,160
And that was it. 
That's the shortest audition I 

995
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:49,560
think I've ever been involved 
in. 

996
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:52,640
And that was before Drop the 
dead donkey wasn't it for? 

997
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:53,080
Him. 
Oh, yeah. 

998
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:54,480
Yeah, exactly. 
Because they're. 

999
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:58,280
They're going, Yeah. 
Well, he's such a reliable 

1000
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,280
actor. 
Neil, a very interesting bloke 

1001
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,800
as well. 
He's a very amusing and very 

1002
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,000
learned bloke. 
He's into into rare books. 

1003
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,320
He's making his money out of 
now. 

1004
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,080
Oh. 
Yes, yeah, I've read that 

1005
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,160
somewhere. 
Michael Bolland, who's head of 

1006
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,200
channel comedy at Channel 4, he 
wanted us to come after who does

1007
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,600
wins. 
He said he wants you to. 

1008
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:24,880
He wanted just as me and Jimmy 
to come up with a sitcom and we 

1009
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,600
had three ideas. 
I can't remember what the first 

1010
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:29,840
one was. 
That's what we like best. 

1011
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,440
I can't remember. 
The second one was that was the 

1012
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:37,040
one I like second best. 
And we also had half a page of 

1013
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,280
of notes about the Roman 
occupation in Britain, like a 

1014
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,800
sitcom Britain versus you know, 
which classic sort of, you know,

1015
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,000
tough. 
Yeah, working class thing. 

1016
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,960
And we were going to have 
Griffin, Melanie, Mel playing 

1017
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,080
bad rock and Griff playing the 
Rome. 

1018
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,880
And that was written. 
It was written with those in 

1019
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,440
mind. 
So Jimmy's character, Alice 

1020
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,200
Paulinas would have been 
Griffin, mine would have been 

1021
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,560
Mel. 
That's why when I do Bedrock, I 

1022
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,760
was always try to do it like Mel
Smith would have done it. 

1023
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:12,360
You know that's what we had 
there is that's that's why I 

1024
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,000
just that's why I decided to do 
it like that. 

1025
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,320
Yeah we took it to to Bolland 
and he hated the first idea. 

1026
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,440
I know that's terrible little 
like that I could see how it 

1027
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,320
could work. 
But you know I was Scottish by 

1028
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,720
doing just don't tell you that. 
In case you're watching 

1029
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:27,640
wondering why I was doing that 
accent. 

1030
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:33,360
It is not stuck very good. 
And the second one I think no I 

1031
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,360
don't like this one. 
What's the other one you've got 

1032
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,560
And we weren't going to show him
this is how is this idea we've 

1033
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,920
got for Griffin. 
Mel, it's basically a sort of 

1034
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:50,200
traditional sitcom, but it's set
in Roman Britain about the the 

1035
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:54,680
tensions between the occupying 
Romans and the and the and the 

1036
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,000
Britons. 
No, that's a great idea. 

1037
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,120
I love that. 
I said one thing I don't like 

1038
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,760
about it, though, I suppose that
I don't want Griffin Mel in it. 

1039
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,360
I said why not say, oh, that's 
BBCI, don't I know you, You and 

1040
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,280
Jimmy, you do it. 
That was it. 

1041
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,000
Brilliant. 
So it doesn't happen like that 

1042
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,080
anymore. 
It's it's 10 years, isn't it? 

1043
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,800
Since Mel died. 
Really. 

1044
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,880
Yeah, and I love the last Smith 
and Jones. 

1045
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,200
And I know you wrote quite a 
bit. 

1046
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,720
Do you remember any particular 
sketches that you wrote? 

1047
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,880
Yeah, I we we we started writing
the what we call the head to 

1048
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,840
heads me and Clive. 
You know, and Griff has been 

1049
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:40,040
telling this story. 
But when we were there was me 

1050
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,600
and Clive or me and Jimmy or 
combination. 

1051
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,280
You know, Griff had the idea 
that he wanted, you know, just 

1052
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,560
two thick people. 
You know, that basically it was 

1053
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,880
done on the weekending written 
by Andy Hamilton and Guy Jenkin.

1054
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,720
They they had these two sort of 
cockney keys just making sort of

1055
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:00,760
silly things about you know how 
bad the world was and all these 

1056
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,040
immigrants and you know it was 
just like 2 thick work has been 

1057
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,240
commenting on the days and you 
and Griff thought he'd sort of 

1058
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,720
adapt that to sort of to and he 
had the idea that it should be. 

1059
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,200
I mean Griff did have the idea 
it should be a locked off a 

1060
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,160
massively close up showing 
showing their you know their 

1061
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:25,280
handsomeness in all its glory. 
And so Jimmy and I started with 

1062
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,200
me maybe it's me and Clive I 
can't remember. 

1063
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:32,760
I think Jimmy came in later but 
we used to A says this. 

1064
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:37,400
B says that. 
A says that, you know, so it's 

1065
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:43,760
A, B, A/B, A/B all there. 
And when we came to sort of read

1066
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,440
through Griff, who's saying 
who's being? 

1067
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:51,080
And we thought, well, you do a 
Griffs, you know, and it just 

1068
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,080
worked out that if Griff was 
always doing A, we'd write it in

1069
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:55,880
A in a certain way, knowing it 
was him. 

1070
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,080
But originally it was just, he 
says that the other person says 

1071
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,040
this, you know, in the, oh, they
could swap them around, it 

1072
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:02,920
doesn't matter. 
And then we started to say well 

1073
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,840
actually we might as well put 
G&M you know G for Griff, M for 

1074
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,360
you know does make any 
difference, but it will do that.

1075
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:15,320
So this went on and then Griff 
said, sorry Roy, I can't, they 

1076
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,440
can't say this this line, it's 
just my character wouldn't say 

1077
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,560
it. 
It was the first time we thought

1078
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,120
we'd heard they had characters, 
you know because to us it was 

1079
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,720
all you say A/B, A/B, MGMG. 
And so that that that made us 

1080
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,200
think that maybe there was more 
to this, you know, and we 

1081
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,960
actually then did sort of 
develop it and the characters 

1082
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,440
did become more rounded because 
originally it's just you know, 

1083
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:37,960
feed line, punchline, punchline,
feed line, you know, Mal. 

1084
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,640
Mal was slightly more 
intelligent than than Griff in 

1085
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:44,320
those head to heads. 
It's like. 

1086
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,320
You think, don't you? 
That's what Griffith say. 

1087
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,960
That's that old thing, Taylor, 
that you put your finger on. 

1088
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,760
That's what people people think.
He's the clever one. 

1089
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:58,200
But in a sort of, in a sort of 
sneaky, seditious way. 

1090
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,680
I am the clever one. 
Yeah. 

1091
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:02,920
Yeah, that's right. 
That's right. 

1092
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,400
You're right, mate. 
You're right. 

1093
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:08,400
They were compared. 
Those head to heads were 

1094
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,520
compared at the time to Pete and
Doug Routine. 

1095
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,520
I mean, it's very similar. 
I mean those Pete and Doug pre, 

1096
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,720
you know, a bit big, Big before 
Derek and Clive enough. 

1097
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,240
Derek and Clive. 
Yeah, very similar. 

1098
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,400
I mean, and that's a lovely. 
I mean that it two people 

1099
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,320
talking to each other in a sort 
of surreal, stupid way. 

1100
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,520
Yeah. 
That's going to be Pete and Dad.

1101
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,440
So I love the. 
I love the comparison. 

1102
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,200
I mean, I mean, I have worked 
very hard at my look. 

1103
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,720
Yeah. 
Because you think. 

1104
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,080
I think if you put enough effort
into it, I think that what 

1105
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:44,200
happens is that is that your 
clothes say something about you.

1106
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,480
Do you know what I mean? 
Like here comes a scruffy 

1107
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:52,240
bastard. 
In Three Men in a Boat, 

1108
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,320
obviously you were reunited with
Griff. 

1109
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,000
It's first time we've worked 
together on the same side of the

1110
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,520
camera. 
Oh, was that? 

1111
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:05,200
Yeah, and Griff was very I don't
think he enjoyed it that much. 

1112
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,040
Not having me because he was so 
used to me, you know. 

1113
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,960
Well, he knows that you know me 
being being Clive, taking the 

1114
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,680
piss out of him because he 
didn't know whether he wanted 

1115
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,560
that on camera. 
But they they had this idea 

1116
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,800
where I was doing this thing 
called Grumpy Old Men with a 

1117
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,680
with a company called Liberty 
Bell and they had the idea they 

1118
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:32,600
do reenact the three men in the 
boat and Stewart Stewart his 

1119
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,960
neighbourhood. 
The producer said, we've got we 

1120
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:42,040
want to use this Irish comedian 
called Dara O'Brien in something

1121
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,360
and we've thought wouldn't it be
great to do three men in the 

1122
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,120
boat. 
And I said well yeah, but who's 

1123
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,280
who are the other two. 
And he said, well, I thought you

1124
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:56,320
would be 1 Roy and then you and 
in Daraa and we'd get another 

1125
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:57,680
person. 
I said, well, I'd never heard 

1126
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,280
Daraa brain got to him very 
well, obviously. 

1127
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,320
And he said, and they said we 
did only want to know anything 

1128
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,240
about Butts. 
And I said, well, the obvious 

1129
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:12,040
person would be Griff, you know,
he's a, he's he's into sailing, 

1130
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,120
he's into yacht racing. 
He's a qualified. 

1131
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,520
He's done whatever he needs to 
do to be a a mark, you know, a 

1132
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,440
whatever they call a ship, ship 
master or master mayor. 

1133
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,760
And one of those and they said, 
oh, do you think he'd do it? 

1134
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:29,680
And I I said I'll ring him up. 
And he said to me, Roy, do we, 

1135
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:31,960
do we want to be on screen 
together, you and me? 

1136
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:33,720
I don't think we do, do we, you 
know? 

1137
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,880
And I said, well you know, I 
don't tend not to turn down any 

1138
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:47,720
job offers and he's as I assumed
you didn't want to do it. 

1139
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,640
And then, and I said, OK Griff, 
I'll ring up the producer and 

1140
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,280
say you're not keen. 
I didn't, I wasn't keen. 

1141
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,600
I just haven't decided yet. 
And so we did it. 

1142
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:02,720
And that was, I mean that that 
used the success of that was 

1143
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:10,000
baffling to us all because when 
we saw the first episode go out,

1144
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:13,360
we went around to the producers,
the director's house in in 

1145
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:14,840
Richmond, Nice little flat it 
was. 

1146
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,520
We'd started in Richmond and he 
lived there, so it seemed 

1147
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:18,800
opposite that we should go 
there. 

1148
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:23,320
And we watched the uncut, you 
know, a rough cut of the of the 

1149
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,720
program and with all the 
production team, there's me and 

1150
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,560
Dara and Griff sitting at the 
back of the room. 

1151
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:31,800
You know, two of us drinking, 
one of us not drinking and 

1152
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,440
people were giggling and 
laughing and anything. 

1153
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,560
And Griff, me and Dara sat 
there, Stony faced, you know, 

1154
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,600
about 5 minutes for the end. 
Griff turned to me and said, 

1155
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:49,600
this goes out, we're finished. 
And yet when it went out, it got

1156
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:53,440
such a huge we were just, you 
know, Dara couldn't believe it 

1157
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,040
people. 
Dara's used to complain that you

1158
01:06:56,040 --> 01:07:01,080
know he done so much on telly, 
you know, and he's, you know, 

1159
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,120
subsequently he's still doing 
and people still come up to him 

1160
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,160
say you're the bloke off Freeman
in the boat and he sort of, he 

1161
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:11,400
can't stand it. 
I I just wanted to, I wanted to 

1162
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,360
just finish off if you don't 
mind just quick question really 

1163
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,240
because we've we've we've skated
around the goons and and we've 

1164
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,560
talked about Spike of course but
I just I meant to ask you at the

1165
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,400
beginning you know were you a 
fan of sellers as well. 

1166
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,120
It's for me this, I mean it's a 
good question. 

1167
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:31,760
The sellers of the Goon Show is 
a different is a different 

1168
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,840
animal almost. 
Does that make sense? 

1169
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:40,680
You know it's just in a I I can 
separate them and say, oh he's 

1170
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:42,000
not the real Peter Sellers 
though. 

1171
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:45,440
Having said that he was in a he 
was in a what's that film he was

1172
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,520
in called Is it the wrong arm of
the Lord two way stretch when he

1173
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,080
plays, which he was excellent 
and he played well. 

1174
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,720
I can't remember what he plays 
this sort of spivey French. 

1175
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:56,320
Yeah that's right. 
Yeah. 

1176
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,760
He was you know stuff. 
Don't you tell you know stuff. 

1177
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,960
Yeah no it's good in that. 
But I just, I think, I think 

1178
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,640
it's probably Clueso, and that's
a weird film he did about the 

1179
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,640
American President. 
I think it's the Being there 

1180
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:12,240
film I'm thinking of. 
Do you remember? 

1181
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:13,000
That, yes. 
Yeah. 

1182
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:13,760
Yeah. 
Which I was. 

1183
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,560
It's a weird film. 
It didn't really work for me. 

1184
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:20,439
It didn't quite. 
It didn't quite like I couldn't 

1185
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,200
buy it at all big. 
Fan. 

1186
01:08:22,399 --> 01:08:26,000
I'm not a big fan, but OK, well,
listen, you've got guests. 

1187
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,120
I I better let you go. 
Rory, thank you so much. 

1188
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,399
I'm sorry, hope you don't think 
I'm rushing off because I've 

1189
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:32,560
really enjoyed talking to you 
and there's loads of stuff. 

1190
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,640
I mean, we could do this once a 
week and we will still not run 

1191
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,359
out of, you know. 
I'll take you up on that. 

1192
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:42,080
And I'd like to maybe speak to 
you again in the future, if 

1193
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:43,279
that's all right, sometime we 
could talk. 

1194
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,160
Yeah, now I've. 
I've got a big long list of 

1195
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:51,560
stuff to bring up, and I don't 
think we've done yeah, even 1/4 

1196
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,600
of it. 
Thanks again to Rory. 

1197
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:59,479
So that's it now folks, for 
month or two maybe, yeah, maybe 

1198
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,080
two months, something like that.
I'm going to take a break as 

1199
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:06,960
I've been warning as I've been 
promising leading up to now. 

1200
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:10,800
So I'm looking at probably 
returning in the spring March 

1201
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:17,160
sometime with a new slew, a 
whole new slew of of episodes 

1202
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,040
and get back back on track, you 
know, talk about goon shows, 

1203
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,800
films, that sort of thing. 
But also I'm planning on having 

1204
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,160
some really, really special 
guests. 

1205
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:30,040
I mean, I've had some wonderful 
guests in the last well, since 

1206
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,319
Goon Pop began. 
But in the last year alone, 

1207
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:34,240
we've had some wonderful, 
wonderful guests. 

1208
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,680
And if any of you are listening,
I just want to, you know, thank 

1209
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,439
you so much from the bottom of 
my heart. 

1210
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,439
I'm getting all sentimental now,
but, you know, you know who you 

1211
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,960
are. 
I'll keep people posted on 

1212
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:52,399
movements via social media. 
And until then, I'd like to play

1213
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:57,240
out this episode actually with 
earlier Rory was talking about 

1214
01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:02,640
the song in Cornish that he and 
Phil Pope came up with and and 

1215
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:04,560
he sent me it. 
It's it's lovely. 

1216
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:09,880
Lovely haunting, lilting melody.
I'm going to try and pronounce 

1217
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,040
it. 
Apologies to any native Cornish 

1218
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:14,160
speakers. 
I don't think there's many of 

1219
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:19,280
you out there. 
It is Canal to Vans and have in 

1220
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:23,320
Sitter. 
Anyway, here it is. 

1221
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,040
And till we meet again, Tara.