Remember when an episode of The Simpsons used to turn up on TV
and you could tell it was clearly made in the 90s before
it became as sterile shadow of its former self and you go.
Yes. But then you quickly realize
that it was a clip show and yeah you'd experience a mild twinge
of disappointment but they go. Well I've got nothing better to
do. I may as well watch it anyway
well this special show aims to at the very least replicate that
experience. Welcome to this special bumper
sized Easter edition. Of ghum pod.
So, a couple of years ago, I thought I would add to the sum
of human Happiness. By starting a podcast about old
comedy, you can. Thank me later.
I do, seriously think that podcasters.
Good podcasters are the sixth emergency service police
ambulance fire Lifeboat pizza delivery.
Yeah, sixth, yeah. Well anyway, we provide an
essential service, which people can turn to when they need a bit
of cheering up, or, or simply in the case of gunpod, they want to
hear a clip of a mule violently breaking wind.
I started the show in May 2021, during the dying days of
lockdown. And next week, show will be the
100th episode. I really never believed it would
get this far. And not only that but continue
to gain new lister's every week and fans.
Dare, I say it seemed to attract interest right?
From the off which was very pleasing, and I worked like hell
on Twitter particularly to promote it.
I feel that gradually the podcast is evolving.
And while it will always have an emphasis on the goons more and
more the episode, see departures into other areas of comedy and
sometimes even music and films and books, but obviously, we
never Way too far. At some point this year, or
maybe next year, or maybe never, I'm thinking of starting a new
podcast covering British comedy films, good and bad while
maintaining this one, but it might be tricky to find the time
and remain and divorced. So who knows?
So the purpose of this special episode really is to act as a
sort of introduction to people new to the show or maybe
stumbling upon it by accident. I wanted to share a selection of
clips from the Last 98 odd episodes, my God, which I hope
will give a fairly good flavor and overview of the podcast.
And its General tone and style. And, and humor, regular
listeners will have probably heard these before some of them
at least, but there may be some, which passed them by.
And even if not, I'd like to think that they are enjoyable on
a realization. I've been so lucky to me through
this podcast. So lucky to meet so many
wonderful generous people each With their own stories to tell
some of them fairly famous. Some of them not so famous but
each and every one of them as a star in my eyes, one of the
earliest guests was writer David Quantic.
David noticed the game-pod Twitter account and tweeted
something along the lines of her are.
There's a podcast about the goons or some such and I made
contact with him, I invited a mom and we'll have a listen.
Did you think they're if you'd been born?
So you've touched on the goodies.
If you'd been born May Maybe what?
Five years earlier? You'd have been the perfect age
for Flying Circus but because of when you were born, you were the
perfect age for the goodies in 1970?
Do you think? Oh absolutely.
I mean but you make your own way as well and because of my age,
you know me and my friends we liked python but it was at you
know the older kids would come into class and every like I wish
to register a complaint and we would ask for it would like
them, you know. It was the same as their music,
we liked punk you know to narrow it down.
We like pong they like to Pink Floyd.
We Like the goodies, and we would be the ones who went on to
like the young wolves, and alternative comedy.
They liked Python and they liked pink floyd--.
I'm and I also, you know, because I was like, millions of
comedy writers bookish. So the goons, you know, and I
like Alice in Wonderland. That's one of my favorite books
and I would buy things like the penguin, penguin, book of
nonsense, edited by Paul Jennings which is a classic and
that's got python in it and Alice in Wonderland and it's got
Milligan and the goons in it, but it's also got people like NF
Simpson. Who's one of my favorite little
a right? Yes.
Much much loved by the pythons and was kind of like, Spike
Milligan of the West End is a very bad description.
Brilliant, brilliant writer, huge influence, on the pythons
who and Beyond The Fringe, Jonathan Miller directed, his
stuff Simpsons. And if Simpson worries, is one
of the funniest writers in the world, And very Milligan, esk,
really worth reading or seeing some of his stuff, you could
easily believe that it was kind of slightly more upmarket.
Goons Natural History Museum, every weekend, the zoo and a
half day. I'm not surprised.
She gets her. Love all these idiotic ideas.
You don't have to keep on at all the time, Mabel, I noticed you
soon as something to say when you thought you might have to
dip into your pocket for a new glands and it won't last five
minutes when she gets them. So, I'm their dad a crazed and
she wants to be a pterodactyl. How long did that last?
She lied about a girl that pterodactyl movement to end gets
on a. Do you started listening to the
goo? Nope, he's obviously, they
didn't have music. The music had been taken out
another Workshop. So when did you Can you remember
when you first heard, you know a full-length goon show with the
with the musical B included? Yeah.
That would be one ever when the BBC actually repeated them and
even their know because I joined the Goon show preservation
Society in about 1976. Oh yeah.
I was aware of the or the BBC never repeat anything and every
book you bought by Spike Milligan, the intro would go.
Well, I never get any money off the BBC so I was quite aware
that the Goon shows were hardly ever repeated or appeared to be?
It was a bit of a shock. My first year at the shows
because it brought them into the real world before that it was a
completely surreal world. And if you didn't get a jokes
about lady doctor or Harold, macmillan's, it didn't matter
because you didn't get off the jokes.
Anyway, it was mad, you know, the genius of the show, was the
idea to it didn't matter, if you didn't get a reference, their
podcast covers anything and everything about the goons or
with her member of the goons in it.
So that can include a film with Peter Sellers, or a TV show with
Spike Milligan or Michael Benton, or whatever it may be.
But there are three things, I am quite confident, will never
cover Highway The Melting Pot and Harry seeking on the Rolf
Harris show, but who knows? I mean, maybe I'll find out that
Greg Wallace say is a huge fan of the Melting Pot and he begs
me to let him. Come on the show and talk about
it. I might consider it for Greg,
although I'd probably spend the entire time asking him to stop
being so enthusiastic and Charles can come on and talk
about carrying chips if he wants to.
And speaking of Korean chips and it's writer Johnny Spate.
As regular listeners, will know very often the conversation with
a guest will Branch off into other areas, usually comedy or
the Beatles, such as in. This instance, when I was
speaking to Chris diamond and the subject of Ken Campbell came
up we talking about Ken Campbell and his remarkable career.
And that naturally led us to I'm talking about the television
sitcom in sickness and in health the elf, Garnet series from the
1980s and Spike had a guest role on that at one point as flash
Harry. I think.
Anyway, have a listen, I have to tell you right.
Yeah, and I mean, nobody's woman.
Yeah, I think it's sickness and in health as one of the Great
Lost sitcoms Hmm. Of course it's course, it's not
something that's ever going for should know because they're,
they're our attitudes expressed. I was trying to remember the one
thing if the start of Disney films know when they say things
like care, if you have does the plus C mmm and you put on a film
I could be any from. I mean it because they do it for
all of them. Real role.
I'm not commenting on them. Just have to do so weak.
AI thought I widen the other me cry.
A lot have a little sing along to myself and the low screen
comes up. And it says, this film contains
depictions of are culturally insensitive nature or somewhere
that the went right then and they are not right now.
But if you want to find out why they're not there, you're
somewhere that will have a look at this link.
So I think is really disingenuous because it's like
what it's seeing as there's some stuff in here that's problematic
but it's going to be on in a minute it will have your PIN at
a month and it's going to be a long and every second but
justly, hell are, you know there's some of its Abernathy.
I couldn't quite understand what the problem was at the outset
with Aladdin but if they have I realized that I think it's just
basically the depiction of Middle Eastern people.
Yeah, may I thought does anybody think this is meant to be a
realistic? Depiction of anybody?
It's got blue genie in it. Mmm, anyway, these are no
arguments for me to be calm or defend, or project.
However, you would certainly have to put it front of its
existence, but for various different reasons my argument,
however, is that it's to a purpose.
You know, till death us do part. I think it's actually more
problematic because I've gone, let's use of racial epithets was
not problematic at the time. What's up?
People said it. Yeah, you know, I did it and I'm
not ashamed of it and nobody would have shamed them for it.
So I'm always a bit uneasy with the use of that sort of racist
language and till death us do part.
But in then, Sickness, and in health, it's by this time deeply
anachronistic, so it marks off Garner.
Oh, as for what he is, which is and I can esoteric racist bigot,
because other people are around them, don't talk or behave like
that. And so, I actually, I think it's
weirdly more acceptable, because there's no pretense that he's
right. Until death us, do part in the
60s and the 70s, and Miss special in the 60s.
I always feel there's an attitude that nobody's really
questioning him for us using the language.
It's just as opinions are wrong, and I think, I don't think in
admittedly, I'm not seeing till death us do part for many, many
years. Yeah.
And but the two main arguments, he would have with Tony boosts
would be. Yeah, politics, but Tony Booth
would quite happily chime in, with the old Rachel.
Is that some self? Yeah he said goodbye me.
He you don't stop. It's just a retailer with.
Tell him up for it. Hmm.
Yeah but yeah you're right. There's the bar is very low.
Let me put it like that but in its sickness and in health the
body is actually very high. Alf uses racist once Arthur
Arthur English and not another great performance.
That's most people. Occasionally also uses a bit
will argue without at times but there's no question that it's
because they're old and out of touch and that it's not
acceptable widely. Now, if you can.
So therefore, if that my put my real point is, if you can get
past that, it becomes a A really interesting and actually, I
think quite important comedy about being old in the 80s.
Hmm, about poverty, and the attitudes of the state towards
the old and neglect and all sorts of things.
We obviously talked about gun shows as well.
And in 2021, I was lucky enough to welcome actor and fellow
podcaster, Mike Fenton Stevens to the show to talk about his
career. But also to talk about An
episode of the goons very close to his heart, Tales of men's
shirts with this show, with the terms of men's shirts.
There's a line, where Milligan says, about a prisoner of war
camp, oppression was full of British officers who had sworn
to die rather than be captured. Thank you, fellow.
It is winter when we observe the reaction of the audience is.
It's wonderful at the moment, isn't it?
Yes. Good here, they slowly gather
they slowly get what has been said and actually it is a
radical view that whole thing of, you know, I said to Adam
Brooke, you great, Twitter, you all those sort of things.
These are these were the sort of icons and they've been, you
know, 15 years of 20 years earlier or 15 years earlier they
were the generals who'd fought the War.
You know, these are the to the den be criticizing them.
It wasn't done in English society.
Wasn't done in British Society. You didn't do that.
And so it's a, it's a real change.
Yes, a sea change. I think to have that happen.
I mean, I do that sort of, you know, you and Dad.
Don't you all went to a good school?
Me? I went to Eton.
How long were you there about five minutes?
I was delivering the groceries. So, with, with the goons.
So you this, this is the one that you've listened to the
most. This episode is the one that
you're most familiar. It's absolutely the one that
when I think back it sticks out, My mind.
And I think it's because we sort of I don't know, I think my mate
and I might have sort of tried to learn it.
Once we tried to learn the whole episode so we could perform it.
I think that's what that performance was about, really?
I don't think we did all of it, but we did large chunks of it.
We memorize it. And so it is in my head, it's
still there. Once, I've learned to joke, I
can wreak I can recall jokes almost, as well.
As I can recall like nearly, everybody can recall the lyrics
because They're set to music and you, it's amazing how long you
can remember. A lyric for you will song will
come on the radio that you will not have heard for, for 35 40,
maybe 50 years, and you join in. So it's a stale, you know.
And yet you can I can play a part in a play and a week after
I finished. I have no idea what the lines
are. Hmm, they've gone from my mind
but jokes, you know, my friends are always saying you
ridiculous, you always remember joke.
Like, oh I do. I do like it's because I think
about them. I think about them and I think
that sort of puts them in my mind there's a line that Angus
wrote in a radioactive sketch and we did a tour of radioactive
but recent good couple years ago really just for the fun of it
really just because we went you know.
Yeah let's all get together and go around.
Have a nice lunches and do these do this old material see what
happens. And if we had a brilliant time
and we were talking about something and I said said to
Angus, as we were Driving through the countryside,
Ponderosa to slide that line that you did about them.
Shag pile, carpet, and he went what lines that you said, I can
imagine what it is, but what is it?
And I said, well, you know, you were playing this sort of the
boss of the radio station. You said, I returned to the
hotel room to find my wife and the hotel porter putting the
Shag pile carpet to the use after which it was presumably,
originally named it. And he looked at me as if I was
some sort of alien and said, But do you listen to the radio shows
all the time? I said, no, I haven't heard that
joke since we did it and he said how how do you remember that?
He said I remember it. No you say it but how I said I
don't know but I absolutely have one of those brains at know if
I've heard a joke. It's sort of stays it sticks
which is nice. This is nice.
Yeah. Mike is the host of course of
the very popular podcast my time capsule and a true gentleman we
spend a lot of time talking about Out some of his TV work
which never really gets attention these days.
Such as who dares wins and people like us actually People
Like Us has come up several times over the course of this
podcast and deservedly so they went repeater but be nice.
If they did I'm goon pod. I'm always Keen to speak to
people who have had some direct experience or even friendship
with any of the goons or work with them on a professional
basis over the course of a couple of hours.
I chatted to Legendary producer, Dirk maggs.
About the work. He's done over the years
bringing the goons to new generations such as his awesome
1991 documentary at last, the go on show and giving again a
decade later featuring former gun pod, guest Jeffrey Holland
in the guise of Peter Sellers around the time of the 1991.
Documentary dirt was riding high with the radio series flywheel
shyster, and flywheel, which we staged for radio, some classic
Marx, Brothers shows, and he told me how he fancied doing the
same. With the Goon show, when I
interviewed, you know, I said, despite when we did the
interview for that lasted, go on show.
I said, how about doing a gun show like we did flywheel and
would you come aboard? And he said, I don't think,
don't think I've got the Esprit de corps anymore.
So, hmm. So I kind of left it.
I thought. Well, I'll come back.
You know, I'm talking. I said it to Harry and Harry
said, I'll do it. I'll do it said Harry.
I'd love to. Hmm.
So, you know, one out of three or four and then Mike Michael
benteen, we did the interview in the Paris about the goons.
And then at the end, I said, by the way, Michael, I've been
thinking, you know, would be possible maybe to resurrect some
of the early stuff that really has been lost.
And this was before some of the tapes turned up I should add.
And, you know, would you be interested in cake?
Taking our eye sore? I don't know.
I'd love to see the guys you
know he said let me think about leaving.
Let me think about it so you know.
Okay. Fine.
Wait. But a week later the phone rang
is Maureen. Got it my PA and she said, it's
Michael benteen. Do you want us to teach it as if
yes? To course, I did.
So he handed a cross and he said hard.
Yeah, it's Mike Banting. That's how Michael he said.
Look, I've been thinking about this idea of yours and I've
actually had a word with Peter about it and really doesn't want
it to happen, okay? And as, you know, by then Peter
had been dead for 13 years. Yeah.
Hmm, 12 you anyway and because I respected Michael very much and
I respected his beliefs you know, in this sort of thing I
said, okay, okay. Well thank you Michael, thank
you for thinking about it. Put the phone down.
I thought holy smoke. Well, if Peter doesn't want us
to do it perhaps we shouldn't speaking of Michael Benteen we
did a show about his nineteen sixties television series.
It's Square world and my friend tilt arise.
A join me to talk about that and Benton's life in general, we
only scratched at the surface though so there will be a part 2
at some point but for now here's tilt talking about a role which
very nearly went benteen's way. Speaking of mad scientists
course we get. What might well be a televisual
first. Dad from December, 31st 1963.
I think the cancer is called dr. Fathering, Gail, some
farthingale, something like that.
Mmm, but Clive done is wearing an approximation of the outfit
of the first doctor from Doctor Who.
So 1963 is just leaving the calendar and we have, what is
probably the first Doctor Who parody?
What are the most exciting items of news which is leaked out.
Lately is the fact that the British at last again to send a
rocket into outer space. It is the txr to for which we
have a half-scale working working model in the studio
tonight as you can see and the idea is to orbit around the
Earth and to gain momentum and then to shoot it up into orbit
around the moon. And here to tell us something
about it. Tonight is a very distinguished
member of the Irish interplanetary society and the
British rocketry commission. Scaring have a word with him.
If you are my grieving doctor, I wonder if What do you think
that? Could even catch a excuse me,
but, I'm whom have I the honor of addressing.
Oh dr. Farzam gown Doctor Who no, not
Doctor. Who in God's?
Holy God. So it was around the Kennedy
assassination. Time was Doctor Who started on
the 23rd of November 1963. Right, there you go.
And So within weeks, banty does noticed the show and it's
obviously kind of thing that appeals to him.
Yes. And of course, he was offered
the part but turned it down because he was told he wouldn't
have time to be involved in the scripts.
Yeah. So that would have been for I
think for the role that eventually went to Pertwee Tom
but I've been just come back. I'm pretty.
Yeah, because I think they asked everybody before they asked Tom
Baker. And my wife has not forgiven Tom
Baker for say yes, because if he had said, no the next name on
the list was full to Makai. I could see that how would
benteen if played the character? Do you think if he had taken the
role, I think I can see more or less playing himself really.
With guns Doctor Who was guns. Sort of scythia sort of 80%
himself. Maybe 20% Professor Pure Heart.
Mmm. But there's this not really,
there's not really much he needs to do to develop a kink or a
quark. This, he's got it.
Comedian elmarie is made. No secret of his love for the
goons and Milligan and his War Memoirs in particular and join
me last year to talk about it. As always, as you'll hear the
conversation via is off into talking about other comedy as
well. But our did talk with some
passion about Spike and what his books meant to him.
It's worth seeking out that podcast, if you haven't heard,
Heard it. It's on the gun pod feed.
Anyway, here's Elle both. Silly sure.
I am taped me doing the doing, the voices will be some cassette
somewhere me. Gave me me?
Yeah, well, that's a bit, but it would have been a first script I
ever heard of any of any, you know, beyond beyond.
Do you know, doing looking at Shakespearean, English at
school? The first script, I read.
So what's g w FX? Yes, what's going on here?
What's happening and it it really, really shaped my View.
Kind of like what's possible, you know what?
What's possible on radio. Remember, the being really into
Radioactive on Radio 4 because they seem to have, they seem to
have got their heads around the idea that you needed, you know,
it's not a sitcom. It's, it's got to be, it's got
to occupy a different space, just sort of straight sketch
there. Yeah.
And, and I remember, Then I remember when I got Unis sort of
Victor or after University dick and Bob were a big thing.
And I remember something, I mean I love Vic and Bob, but I
remember saying, come on, this is the goods.
This is the this is completely in line with what Milligan was
doing in the 50s and then and then what he was doing on TV and
accuses, it's completely in this genealogy.
Surely. Yeah.
And all my, all my clever mates, gone are, those true revolution
has nothing on you and you're doing shows nothing.
I like a good show. Silly voices and I'm thinking,
no, this is the, this is the the judge that they used to do on
victim Big Night. Out judge, judge, not make.
Yeah, yeah. Miss.
What if that were in the Goon show, you won't be surprised
right out of it. And that's not that, which is
again, isn't isn't to say, I don't, you know, I love the
Kebab. I think they're amazing and
interestingly, they're also, they're not officer class.
Are they that that's the other thing is that they're that
they're coming at it from From that different, that different
perspective and the the satire they do, the TV send-ups, they
did. I mean, the TV send-ups, they do
for used to do spend a reason Mortimer.
Again really remind me of Q in lots of ways.
Yeah, yes, absurd. Absurd, makeup and sort of
strange costumes with big feet and stuff and it's all sort of
quite Spike, I think a smell of his Immortal.
I think of Steve Coogan before he was famous.
Yeah, that with a prosthetic ridiculous chin and a yeah.
Is always a big forehead. I'm not quite sure I haven't
been here. Yeah.
Crying and he's and apparently he's the lead singer of go west
and he's he's lost his Top Cat video without it.
Yeah. And it's and it's and it's not,
it's not a criticism. It's a like this is the this is
the stuff. I really love that people,
people completely prepared to be silly.
Video. Have you lost your top cap
video? I know you fail.
I lost a very dear relatively recently.
You told me it was a very day a wristwatch wristwatch.
Yeah. Whispering was booked, my
uncle's wear it when I shot him anywhere.
That's not half as bad as this fellas loss.
So I had this script and the thing is is then, of course,
what you do is you finally get because it, you The bike tapes,
this is quite the 40-hour. Get out a good show.
Finally. You get a hold of the thing.
You listen to it with the script anything right?
Okay. The picture in my head wasn't
exactly. Yeah, exactly.
Right. but but the sort of how vividly they're written in terms
of what Spike trying to get out of what the what they can do on
the radio is very, very interesting and how well he knew
what they could do with, you know, G + FX and how well, he
knew what he could do and what sellers could do and what seek
and was capable of and then everyone else brings lane or you
know, the other cast of characters, it's there at their,
they're amazingly well, written that God is absolutely in
control of his materials and Anyways, this podcast would not
have come about without the advice guidance and support of
Adam Leslie. Adam not only created the gun
pod logo, but he composed and performed.
The brilliant theme tune and he was the first guest back in May
20 21. It was Adam who suggests a
broadening? The scope of the show to look at
anything with a goon connection. However, tenuous so one day I'm
sure we'll be doing 90 minutes talking about how he seeking
montar bucks luck from 1972. And speaking of hairy seek Him,
Adam, whose podcast, Richard tube is a must listen for fans
of classic or obscure Italian film atoms.
Join me a few times to talk about dr.
Strangelove and also the film adaptation of Spike Milligan
celebrated post-apocalyptic. Or is it just apocalyptic play
the bed sitting room the film from 1969.
Here he is talking about one of the film stars seek him.
Himself the other main although it's not really a main character
but certainly for the benefits of this podcast he's a main
character. So hurry seek Him turns up in
quite a Sinister roll. Yeah, so he carry plays shelter
man. He's like a conspiracy theorist.
Yeah he's a survivalist. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. He has filmed at, he's carrying
around Loose Ends of films are not on a real, they just loose
bits of film and they prove things.
So he's quite Two pressing character, really?
He comes, he brings true as quite a modern character.
In the internet age of somebody who's got all this proof on
these bits of films of all these, these conspiracies are
currently to these talk about various Kennedy's.
I think, at one point. Yeah.
And he's also obsessed with LBJ with.
Yes, Lyndon Baines Johnson. He is, we find out, he shot his
wife, Mildred, mother, and his mother as they pleaded with him
to let them in his shelter. So this This is Harry siguen
playing an incredibly dark character and he's got this
anatomical diagram other female on his wall, which he's now
married to. Hmm.
Yes. It's, it's quite Bleak my
general overall thought on the film is that it's so nearly
works. It's so very nearly a really
great film and it for me anyway, it just doesn't quite work.
doesn't quite reach that jaw-dropping, bleakness that, I
think it nearly has And I think a big thing for me is the music,
it has okay Thorns music that burbles throughout certainly
throughout the first three quarters.
This, this it's this kind of this is comedy music, yes.
But bra doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo.
So it will this stuff happening in this really horrible
Wasteland and you get that, it's a character like that.
Harry C comes playing really juxtaposed against his normal
personality. I mean he's got the normal Barry
seeking personality, but the things he's done he's he shot
his wife and his mother and now he's dating an anatomical model
on the hung on the wall, but the music's going to.
But mad do, do, do, do do. This is comedy and I think had
it been playing out either in silence or maybe something a bit
more radio phonic or something to contrast with it a bit more
or something. Other than that. 60s.
This is comedy music. I think it would have landed
tonally a lot better and I think it's not.
I mean, everyone laughs at different things, but for me
it's not quite funny enough. To be a proper Laugh Out Loud,
Comedy, although there were bits.
I did laugh out loud out but consistently.
It's, it's the comedy is undermined by the bleakness, but
it's not quite Bleak enough to be really who.
That's, you know, all this is good Adams co-host on retro
tube. Is the irrepressible, Heather,
Wainwright, whose sense of humor and infectious, giggle, livened
up, a goon pot. Episode on the Phantom head
shaver of Brighton at one point, we felt felt talking about the
music in the show and she revealed a great love for
Ellington. And then she started talking
about her hamster. When I, when I was like the
height of my goon Obsession. So I was what I got a hamster.
It was like, this, this little bit wasn't, like, your normal
everyday kind. It was like a longer Black Rock
and Roll can hamster. They had like really long, fur,
and little paint balls and whose We keep and I called him,
Ellington after they his fate, he's very favorite thing in the
world is on your budgies. Oh my God, he loved her.
He looked at. Yeah, he always whenever out
whatever. Like I was listening to the dojo
do he's like kind of like have a little have a little sniff
outside and sort of how come and sit with me and it was really
nice. Ellington you take it, I take
it. Led to this.
Peered up to that sort of hamster, cage in the sky.
It was a really sad. Dramatic Rock, n Roll death.
He escaped. I feel like I put food out for
him. I tried, I tried to lure him
with treats. Nothing happened, then L don't
laugh. Honestly, I was sorry.
I was devastated, he's laughing. Release it Rocky, Road, deaths,
King, hang on. Did he drive a Rolls-Royce into
a swimming pool closely? But I found it, he, he drowned
in this a picnic in the little washing up bowl and sink.
Yeah, so it was, it was quite rock star e.
It was, it was a fitting, gives a fitting end for a very rock
and roll and stuff, who was named after, you know, and
musical Legend as far as it's because I I'm concerned.
So yeah, poor old Ellington. All right, well, this sort of
moment silence for the Ellington Phantom head shaver to Phantom
raspberry, blower writer. Joe Morris joined me to talk in
some detail about the Phantom raspberry blower of old, London
Town. The spike Milligan scripted TV
play which Ronnie Barker starred in first in 1971 in later in an
expanded form. Part of The Two Ronnies Joel and
I talked in great detail about the two different versions as
well as the background to its creation and pleasingly.
We talked at length about Barker and The Two Ronnies to the full
episode is available on the Goon pod feed from your favorite
podcast platform but for now here's a clip, every two years,
every three years, I'll sit down, you know, with a bacon
sandwich and I'll watch the film of 10 rillington place which
which I adore. Okay.
So watch that I watch the
re-watch it again, a couple of weeks ago and it still holds up
and still fantastic piece of work.
Horrible, come horrible film, horrible for all right.
I mean the best way as in like, yes, like that, like, the Texas
Chainsaw Massacre, horrible films in this.
What it's meant to be. It's meant to be.
It's a wonderful achievement. Yeah.
So watching this and there's a saying there's lots of exterior
shots of mix of that. She filmed at rillington place
that. Yeah, but it's a polished.
Yeah. And then I'm watching the six
dates with Barker Version. And I'm looking at this that I'm
looking at the scene where they've cornered the Phantom,
he's down this drain and I'm thinking now that looks
familiar. Yep, that is rain, looks
familiar because there's a exactly that when I watched her
bark of the first I was watching it with Jason Haley went boom
yeah. Yeah.
Writing partner and he was he a huge Wellington Place fan and
and us as a teenager a fan of classic murders and he went shit
with. In sector that's running in
place. And I was slightly flying by how
quickly he recognized it, but also just.
Yeah. So you freeze frame it, which I
would you do. And, and it is, and they must
have known. Oh God, you must find.
And also you don't go down into the sewers at Rollins plays
without knowing what what was down in the sewer that really
did, but it's really grim. Finally on New Year's Eve, 1899.
He was cornered in a sewer in the Crystal Palace area.
I know you're down there, give yourself up over, play your own
devilish recording back yoke, Amplified with a new electric
police. All
We will not bargain for those things were, as sometimes
happens with the TV and film, where you will use the same
location because you know, that there's permission available to
film there. Well, maybe, I think people
always on TV. Nerds and fans, always moan
about the same Clips being used again and again in documentaries
and Answer is because the clearance is already been done
for those, you'll use that shot of the people in granny takes a
trip looking through the the 60s, carnaby Street fashion.
Because, you know, there's precedent.
Lawyers were each other, no one in that Clippers objected to it
being used you go on your own clip.
There's a Days research being done, that is time.
You want to spend on getting another clip to beat you, you
send your researchers out, you spend your research time wisely,
you don't do something twice and if you, if you don't have to so
very often clip, Become the stuff of rubbish piling up in
the streets in the winter of discontent that clip is, we know
we're clear. None of the been objected.
So that's why gets used again and again.
And I wonder whether you sort of say, oh, well that location
appears to be available, it pays to be suitable for filming and
it's a good horror location. Yeah.
Another great example of sometimes that when you want to
do a parody of something, the best thing to do is to do it for
real to use the relocation. So, what some of the think, one
of the things that works, but the Phantom roughly, blah,
certain did for me as a kid, is that, when it's scary, it's
actually is quite scary. Re the face of the rotted.
Blower is from. Yes.
Yeah. And and the the appearance, the
jump scares, they're funny but they're directed the same way as
you do an attack by Dracula or attacked by by by Jack the
Ripper. They're shot the same way to
make the joke work but we believe it does give a little
frizz on and when they go to that creepy, horrible corner of
London. The dead end.
Mmm. I'm ready to places are
brilliant location because it's this horrible Victorian of slums
with. Nasty little sort of Victorian
sewer under it and a brick wall. It's somewhere.
But you go down to, and you can't escape where you'd get
cornered. We get trapped, so weird.
It's perfect location for the end of the thing, but yeah, the,
the vibe you get by watching and knowing that that's reeling to
place. Our John Christie done, all
their murders, horrible, really nasty.
Maybe it's a sick joke by Milligan.
Who knows, I like to refer to the times when chats with guests
wander off into other areas as conversational Meandering and
hang up as a couple of examples. Firstly, the writer Bob Fisher
joined me ostensibly to talk about The Bleak Peter Sellers
forgotten film The Block House. But before we tackle that for
some reason, the subject of Hilda, Baker arose for those,
too young to remember who the baker was, she starred in a
number of unremarkable and extremely broad sitcoms in the
70s. And once appeared on top of the
pops with other Millard singing, You're the One That I Want.
Who's Arthur my lord. Well, he did manner.
Oh, have you seen? There's that right.
This was shown on BBC for a couple.
It's a few years ago. Now bbc4 went through a period
of The good old days on a Friday night.
So straight straight after their top of the pops repeats there
was an episode of that Shone with Hilda Baker in kind of
false in fact but Hearst because she had a stooge.
Didn't she called sin? Yes.
That's right. Yeah and and and her Cynthia for
a few years was it was a pre Fame, Matthew Kelly.
Oh so yeah. Absolutely.
And he's on one of the episodes of the good old days with Hilda
Baker. Sure.
So yeah, there you go. I just read my name's all over
the Paulo. That's fine.
I'll cut. All they do is look at the
spread out. But no.
No, I'm about to say because I think she went in the hospital.
Okay. And none of the cast like to
particularly as she was always being she was being very, she
was always very off hand, with the cast of she felt that she
was being upstaged. It should be quite she could
poke and but in her absence so that the fourth series or
whatever it was of not on your Nelly, they bought in Jack.
Douglas who was hurt that character was her cousin.
Yeah. And because held a baker wasn't
there because she was in hospital, they needed another
character so they decided that Jack Douglas is character
whatever identical twin brother, okay?
Right obviously played by Jack Douglas.
Yes, but they didn't have the inclination, or the money, or
the technology to do split screen or anything like that.
So you never see them together everything together.
Well well you do see them together, there's an exterior
shot of Jack and his brother walking out of the pub, right?
Okay, shot from behind Jack, Douglas is walking out.
He can see Jack Douglas, you can see his brother but his brothers
walking backwards next to him, Played by a bloke who's five
foot three. Yeah and 20.
So David right before we cast you can we get to start and it
has his brother. Oh that's fantastic.
Anyway anyway as a complete aside to that so I know you're a
bit of a Beatles fan. Yes, this is good.
Possibly Testament to how small my My mind was in the 1980s, I
was small, I thought the world was and I'll be getting when I
first got a copy of John Lennon's album Double Fantasy
becomes completely Beatles obsessed throughout the 1980s.
And you know, some point, I do what I do by all of the solo
stuff. So at some point got hold of a
copy of Double Fantasy. And I was always one for pouring
over the credits on record sleeves so that they're on the
sleeve of John Lennon's Double Fantasy album.
Produced by John Lennon Yoko Ono, Jack Douglas hindsight was
quite a Hotshot American record. Yes yes indeed to my mind as a
teenager in the nineteen sixties.
Who's Jack Douglas of the carry on Films Who Stare out the hoop
would use John Lennon's final album.
Alpha potato mousse. Hey, hey, hey.
What a mental image that brings about?
Tell you much of the studio sessions for that.
All right, we're gonna try one more take if that's all I ja.
Speaking of John Lennon, last year I interviewed, Roger
mcgough John Gorman and Mike McCartney, aka the scaffold who
had come together for a reunions show and who each had grown up
with the goons and also new Spike.
But to be honest, the majority of the conversation was focused
more on their careers, both individually and collectively.
I tried not to mention Mike's, brother and almost got away with
it, but to be honest, he was more than happy to reminisce
about that period of his life and I was Keen to ask him about
the time he and Roger were recording the mcgough maggia
album produced by Paul on, which Jimi, Hendrix came in to perform
on a couple of tracks, right? That is the government.
Here are more kid was Burning Bridges to Denis Raj.
And so we get our and so our kids that sorry.
Roll those listening on the podcast and saying all kid.
It is not my little baby. Pocketed livable vernacular for
my brother. So our kid said, so we need a
guitar as he said, shall I ask Jimmy, I said to me, you.
He said, Jimi, Hendrix. And listen, I was, oh yeah, you
asked him Hendrix because he was pretty big at that time, that's
so, yeah, he's in town to know he has.
So he did. He asked him?
And he said to me is coming to the Lane Lee tomorrow to do this
track called. So would you look so I said,
yeah, okay, believe it. When I see it, the next day,
we've got the door goes and I'll kids working on another track.
He says, you get that my go to the door and Jimi, Hendrix, I'm
expecting him with his Entourage.
With his own crew is good group, easy.
Took that ministers weather is a little odd with the guitar.
Lovely. Yeah, and it's very much, you
know, it's surprising. So he comes in.
I said, would you like we had? Because Roger and I, we couldn't
pay these people with it was the superstars Graham Nash.
Tom bail is set to all these out kid.
All these people and we couldn't pay him money and contractually
with all difficult anyway. So at least Roger, I could
provide drinks. They are beer.
Why I was I can cook and Brilliant conversations Lively
wacko with what Just go and rehearse.
So it took me to the studio who is sitting on delaying Lee
copies. And so it's time for Jimmy to do
is is overdub is guitar solo. And so he's Jimmy said look,
Mike, I don't know this song. Can you tell me when to come in
for the solo? So I said, oh no, you hear it,
don't worry about you, you'll hear it.
RIT, it's all just in the middle but where I stop singing, you
play the guitar and he said, sure.
Okay, no problem. So I went into the studio with
our kid so where the song comes over to num diddly doo dee doo
doo. I stopped singing and suddenly
why won't I want? And I don't hanging out solutely
to me and it is very best. And so our kid whooping work It
on, pepper, the months and years and suddenly this Wild Man of
Borneo is guitar into the infinite.
He said, what do you think? I said yeah yeah he said what do
you mean? Yeah yeah.
Yo that's to me and he's fantastic.
Yeah, okay great. So what do you mean?
Okay, what's your problem? He didn't come in right bit.
So he said, so do you want to tell to me anymore?
I meant for the right thing so I said certainly will.
So went out into the studio, sat on the carpet, he played the in
sitting down on the carpet and I said, look Jim.
I will tell you I will tell you. I will indicate when to come in
for the solo, how by tapping your knee.
And that's exactly what I did for the solo on so much in love.
So tapped his knee, he did the solo.
It, I went back into the thing and they played it back to me
and so I could save. So what do you think?
I said perfect, you came in the right time?
He said no, no compared to the other one when it was the wild
one, it's a tool that's all control etcetera.
Which one do you want? I see.
Oh I see. Oh I see, sorry.
I don't know that much about music.
Sorry. You're right.
The first one so our kids that oh good the engineer.
You can you remember the first one the engine?
It's a. What do you mean?
The first one we've been wiping everyone.
That's why I can listen carefully to that track here.
Then tap before, Jimmy comes in that, you know, you can
Last year Hancock and goons fans were jointly celebrating.
The discovery of a missing episode of the Hancock's half
hour radio series from February 1955 entitled, The Marriage
Bureau because that's the one that's got Peter Sellers on it.
The one and only Peter Sellers episode of Hancock's half hour.
We've covered that in detail with the guys, from the very
nearly an armful Tony Hancock podcast recently but in 2022
during a conversation with actress and podcaster.
Margaret. Kibben Smith about her role in
the hit Hislop and Newman Place Spike.
She talked briefly about her own involvement in breathing, new
life, into Old Hancock. So, to speak when we got
married, we got married eight years ago, and the best man said
in his speech. That the first thing down and
said about me, was, she knows about Tony Hancock and she's not
annoying. And I mean, I think he would
take back the annoying thing probably pretty quickly but So I
can sort of blame. My relationship also on Comedy.
Notary okay. So you just don't know.
So are you a fan? We were fan of Hancock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did Jennifer notebook, one of the jobs.
I've absolutely loved in the last few years, was re-recording
the missing Hancock's, the ones where there aren't any of them,
and I got to play Moira Lister first theories.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
But I met you I met Galton and Simpson and I curtsied when I
met them like, you know, and I stand by it when I met them, the
Royal Doulton and Simpson is just like, this is, you know,
amazingly into the sitcom. Well I reckon if I'd had the
chance to meet Spike or any Peter, even all carry out of
probably Genuflected. Yes, speaking of Hancock writer
and podcast, the Tim Worthington who's been a big supporter of
the show guested on a few occasions.
And one time came on to talk about the 1966 film, the wrong
box which featured Peter Sellers and Tony Hancock.
Here's Tim, you know, people talk about 1967 as the height of
the 60s but in 66, you know, when you've got the build up to,
you know, What came with things like Sergeant Pepper and so on
and you've got all these kind of disparate things that, you know,
still look amazing. Now, like this like Jonathan
Miller as I listened Wonderland, like the children series,
Campbell bit green. I'm still going to say, you
know, that must have looked astonishing in 1966 and it still
looks impressive. Now you know I mean you know the
colors look a bit dated and so on but that the way pop music
was going as well. You know there was that slow
build-up to you know the Psychedelic somewhere in. 1967,
you know, Ed, the beetle Doom revolver.
But all these weird little buns, appearing, from nowhere and the
wrong box. It's kind of in the middle of,
you know, that mounting excitement in.
I say the art but it was everywhere.
You know, it's in Supermarket, packaging.
It was no light, entertainment shows on ITV were adopting you
those characters separate graphics and so on.
Yes. Yeah.
And it must have been so thrilling even in the film based
on the Victorian novel set in Victorian London.
London with you though. A lot of who weren't far off big
Victorian actors in it, but that's still part of that mix.
And I'm not surprised that he Casella's like to, I don't think
it's fair to say JUMP, those bandwagons he liked to keep up
with the what the young people were doing in the similar way to
Leonard Nimoy around that same time in America.
Always had a Keen Eye For, You know what, the latest trends
were not in the kind of the oh, borderline you tree where you
ever. But like the way, people like
George Malley, did they were just interested in what was
coming along and you know, Sal has Evidently was not because he
spent a lot of time it's gurus and so on.
And you know, mixing with the Beatles and am I right in
thinking he might have tried psychedelics but he was part of
the excitement. Tim of course host the looks
unfamiliar podcast and I never cease to be astonished at his
pop culture. Smarts and seemingly effortless
ability to pluck out of The Ether.
Some long-forgotten kids Telly show about ghost astronauts Or
an 80s singer, which never charted by some band, nobody's
heard of or an action figure of Bill Weber Nick, which failed to
fly off the shelves in 1982. Yeah, that'll do by the way,
Tim's on the show. Again next week, there are so
many great podcast now about the Beatles that it can.
Sometimes be a Fool's, errand trying to navigate your way
through them. So far, four of the best have
been represented on goon part as I played host to Chris shore.
Of I'm the egg pod, Paul Abbott from the big Beetle sort out and
the following two gentlemen. Firstly, you here, Stephen
cockroft, co-presenter of nothing is real, which goes from
strength, to strength. Stephen came on the show to
examine all the possible Goons, He's and Beatles connection that
the pair of us could come up with however, tenuous after
that, you'll hear Joe wisby from the Beatles books podcast.
Joe's been for a long time and admirer of the 1995 three-part
BBC documentary on the life and career of Peter Sellers and had
a lot to say about it. But first, here's me and Steven
Now this this one is for Real sort of Hardcore goon fans.
This little bit of trivia here. Mike Haskins share this with me.
Okay. Now you are probably not aware
that very very very occasionally.
In fact there's probably only about five instances in the in
the whole of the Goon shows run that they actually had a real
female guests. On the show, okay?
And they actually had a lady and actress a lady.
That is an actress who was working with Peter Sellers on a
television program at the time in the mid 50's guest on the
Goon show twice. Okay, in the episode, you Bandit
of Sherwood Forest and in a later, episode called Tales of
Montmartre, which we've covered on this as partners.
And that that actress was called Charlotte Mitchell.
And she was very friendly with the goons.
And there is a rumor that there's rumors about her and
sellers as well. If you know what I mean, right
now, her husband, at the time was an actor, called Philip
guard. Okay, not not right.
Really well-known bit, but Philip guard played Edgar in a
third program recording of King Lear in the 60s.
Okay. All right, and so he appears in
the run out of I Am The Walrus that is a good fact.
I did not know that. That is a very good fact, very
tenuous. But very, very tenuous.
Yeah, that's exactly. Exactly the kind of information
I like to squirrel away and that's that's a that's going to
be a tie-break question in a Beatles quiz or do it someday.
And I'm not going to forget that.
That's a that's a great piece of trivia.
That's excellent. Well done.
Well thank you Mike for Mike. Yeah, like you Mike.
That's very good. I know they will a serviceable
villain has duteous to the vices of.
I mistress as Badness will desire.
What is he dead? Since you down?
Father rescue service, the magic of this documentary and I think
one of the really key Things is documentaries got in its favor
is when it was made. So I always think the best time
to write a book or make a documentary about are anything.
But particularly about like an individual, it's about 15 to 25
years, after either the event or that that person has died or
maybe as stop being successful, you get the documentaries that
are met too far too far in the future.
I mean, you're getting to a stage now, with be Documentaries
where the talking heads on around so much now.
And for instance, a good example of that book wise is there's a
really, really excellent book that came out about britpop and
cool Britannia and the 90s called that the Back in Anger
bar, nautical, Daniel, Rachel. And now that you've had about 25
to 30 years that have gone past since britpop and that kind of
time, there's enough time for these people that were involved
in it to reflect. Lect on it.
There's a bit of hindsight to be had, but these people are still
alive. They're still, you know, got all
their wits about them. So they can, they can tell good
stories, Etc. And the thing about this
documentary is, it's only 15 years after he died.
Most of the principles were still with us at that point.
I mean, if you look at how many of the people that we need
supplements, you that are still alive.
Now you probably looking at about 30, you know, 30 to 35% I
would say all full of people have died They're in this
documentary so those interviews are gone now but almost everyone
almost everyone that they interview.
I think, I can't think of anyone that they interview in it, top
of my head that didn't even know him or work with him.
Don't think there was no, no, and you're absolutely right.
Obviously, you've got spiked you got Harry both gone.
Now, he had no stage fright, he would not have been found in the
wind like the rest of us. Trembling before he went out
there be completely calm and That was a feature of him that I
found quite disturbing it. No way.
Because that will actually be climbing up the wall.
He just standing there. Not worried about it.
Peter would phone me up and say How's the script going?
I said it's going like this. There.
Was a man as that I've got that down.
You've got sadly, got Michael Sellers, he's no longer around.
Well, that's another story. Yeah, absolutely.
The only person, the only person that they don't interview
talking head wise for this is Britt ekland.
So, for whatever reason, even though her daughter Victoria
sellers is in it, obviously, yeah, they don't get brittle,
but they use sheet. I think she done the previous
year. She done a desert island discs.
Vitality in the audio from that obviously be the BBC production.
They would have had access to that audio quite easily.
So she still features in the film.
So she's the only person I think of a that's that was still alive
at the time that they don't speak to in this documentary.
As an excellent companion, show to The Beatles on the goons
podcast, I did with Stephen, from nothing is real.
I would recommend people seek out a subsequent episode.
I recorded with my friend, Andrew hickey, he of the
all-conquering history of rock music and 500 songs in which he
talked about George Martin's, professional, and personal
relationship, with Sellers and Milligan.
It's in the Green Pod archive I mentioned Paul Abbott before.
He's been a guest a couple of times and most recently came on
to talk about the lp Spike, Milligan live at Cambridge which
was a hotchpotch of stories jokes poetry readings from his
books and some cracking Tunes from musician.
Jeremy Taylor. I think this is an interesting.
This Record captures an interesting thing then
especially in context that review because the a doesn't do
quite a bit of his Serious poetry even though a lot of
mysterious poems end on a funny line.
But the funny lines, they're tough just to highlight the, you
know, the point he's making in this serious stuff, whether it's
about love or about, you know, environmental stuff or whatever.
And I really love is serious poems, but you can hear him on
this, he does it. And you know, you can hear a pin
drop but not necessarily because everyone's hooked on the
listening to him, read a poem. I think they're a bit.
I feel like I can hear embarrassment.
Yes, a little bit and it's and I think it's coming partly from
Bike feeling embarrassed about exposing himself by reading
these poems out and them not getting.
I mean because what do you do at the end of a serious poem, If
you clap, it seems weird. You know, it's like it's quite a
hard contract to have with your audience, if you, if they've
come out for a comedy show. And then you sort of say, well,
you know, the contract, is you react to what I say?
And now I'm going to say something that's really, really
quite deep and moving. It's like now make sure you all
have the same At the end of it and clap, it's not going to
happen. Is it this one?
I wrote the day that Robert Kennedy was assassinated It's
called values. The prince is dying, give him
air headlines crisis, Kennedy shot the Assassin captured too
late Kennedy dies, the telegrams flow and bury the body in
Arlington somewhere and Mekong. A prince of battle is blown into
bloody meat, no headlines, no crisis and only one Telegram.
Yeah, I love hearing them cuz I love spikes poems and I love his
is crusading in his campaigning and is his heart.
But yeah, it sounds like it's what it's odd that they put out
this record rather than a rehearsed version of this from
having run it through was a couple of different later ones
when it was done, you know a few more times and in one week only
living thing you've got to bear in mind.
Of course the average age of the audience would be what 20?
Because that was yeah University.
Students someone who may have been in that Cambridge audience
to witness Spike and Jeremy live on stage was Griff, Rhys Jones,
who I was lucky enough to interview recently.
Actually, I've just realized, I never asked him if he was there,
but to be honest, Griffith talk so much.
It was difficult to get a word in sometimes.
Here he is talking about the outrageous to Ronnies send up.
He performed on not the nine o'clock news with Mel Smith, the
two nannies. Now, we were talking about Monty
Python because we must forget the not long ago.
He's also did the life of me, I don't sketch.
That's right. Yes.
The bishop, you know, coming on to say that, you know, it was
based on the, the interviews they done about the life.
Brian, you know, with the idea that Monty Python were sort of
beyond beyond that was John, that was that was really written
out of a sort of and so is the two knees out of do it was?
I thought I was embarrassed to do the tuna age.
Well, yeah. Well, yeah, because I thought it
was lays Majesty a, you know, I mean, these were it would do,
you don't go on knock other great comedians.
It seems to me that your, but anyway, that was the sort of
moon of the writers. Room was taking the opportunity
to have a go at other other Comics as well.
And it's would it did sort of seriously worried me the idea
that you were being so, you know, Disrespectful cheeky
because because I gather that Ronnie Ronnie Corbett was okay.
With a bit runny back. It was incandescent.
I went to BC. Christmas party.
Hmm. And I think I was the only one
there for the news. It's entertainment party.
And there was only Barker. And it was a slightly tough
moment because running back was hero as you could imagine.
Yep. And he gave, you know, he was
very sort of, you know, magnanimous in a funny sort of
way, but he gave me a sort of hug, which was just a tiny bit
too violent, but I remember that figured gold that it was very
weird but it was a funny sketch, wasn't it?
It was fun because it was so outraged.
I'm not I'm not the do with the we're walking up and down and
from the spot spot spot because there's something for welcoming
the top thought you know that. But he was a little bit.
Yeah dangerous yes and they love to be dangerous, you see him up
son? Never was quite dangerous
enough, really whatever I wrote it dangerous sketchy, we get
caught up Satchel one of the key elements of any gun shows, the
music and take that away and the show loses.
Its fundamental heart, music plays such a huge part and Many
times over the last hundred shows me and the guests of
talked about railing tin and Max geldray.
And we did a whole show, all about Angela morally, whose
arrangements and overall musical contribution on the Goon show
was incalculable me and writer Louis, barf, discussed,
Angela's, life and extraordinary career over the course of an
hour. But here's a bit from our chat
where Louis actually talks about one of his favorite Peter
Sellers films the party, it was on, it was on TV One.
On Christmas Eve and I watched it with my granddad was the
first time I'd seen it and the shoe going, the fuck the idea of
someone having a stream running through the middle of the house
but the but the whole scene where he's trying to recapture
the Lost shoe as his flowy. Yeah.
The diving watch, this is film set in 1889 and the toilet roll.
Yeah, and that's what I did. And of course, the thing that
everyone remembers the public address system in the house.
Maddie. No, I'm not.
I know it's hugely problematic now, but I think one of the
interesting things about Sellers and he is, it sellers Milligan.
Their portrayal of Indian mmm-hmm characters.
It, they, you know, Spike had been brought up in India, Peter
had spent a lot of time in India in the RAF, so these things were
done from close observation and with great affection, and Also
when the you know, the transcription service cuts at
the Goon show went out various you know, radio stations on the
sub-continent. They they were hugely loved and
also I think is didn't spy competing used to put in
doubtful bits of verdure. Yeah.
Two for the listenership and
they get past the sensor and do you get an enormous laughs in
uttar Pradesh or ever? Speaking of sellers, one of my
earliest guests and a huge help to me in terms of being the
go-to guy for information. And guidance is Mark cousins
whose knowledge of sellers is as I've described it Mark Lewis
arnessk, try saying that when you've had a few markers
returning soon to the show to talk about Peter Sellers, non
goons radio career in the 1950s, but here he is on the man
himself and his own easy friendship in the late.
Teas with Bob monkhouse, I don't, I think they hung out
together, but they certainly knew each other.
And, as I say on a few occasions, they work together.
And the weird thing is though, because you've got sellers there
who's, who's getting his mum, to record, as much as possible, and
obviously monkhouse was famous for recording, whatever you say.
Well, that's exactly. The story is that sellers found
out that monkhouse had this disk recorder He desperately wanted
to buy it from monkhouse, a monkhouse didn't want to sell it
and I think he ended up, I can't remember.
I UE ended up offering about a five or more than he paid for
it. The monkhouse all.
This is a, this is a good deal. I can go and buy another one and
I paid some money as well. So then so sellers bought this
thing and took it home. And I don't know what happened,
but clearly couldn't figure out how to use it properly.
So his mum went round to munch houses house.
And complained that it was broken and he wanted his money
back. What's going to leave until you
got the money back. Anyway, he clearly kept the disc
cutter. What?
I don't know how that was all resolved, but he kept it all and
recorded quite a lot on it over the years on these little little
discs. So, and that's the source of
these radio programs. So, obviously monkhouse was more
into recording for its own sake. If you like them sellers was,
sellers used to use it a to record his His own appearances
but also for rehearsal purposes. So he would use, he would use it
to, you know, read dialogue, and here it back and stuff like
that. In the way that you might later
on use a domestic tape recorder to do the same thing still on
sellers later this year, it will be the 60th anniversary of the
release of the Pink Panther movie a film, which
unintentionally spawned the breakout character of Inspector
Clouseau and a subsequent succession of fine and not so
fine Clouseau Capers on celluloid.
I won't mention the handful of posthumous and increasingly
Dreadful Clouseau movies made after sellers died which I
referred to collectively as the Pink Panther flogs.
A dead horse. My friend, Gary, Roger was on
hand to talk in general terms about the Pink Panther film
franchise, including the Alan Arkin movie, and hopefully,
we'll be back with me later in the year to examine that
granddaddy of them all. In detail, the aforementioned
Pink Panther from 1963 starring, David Niven he went into the
film, The Star bigger, sellers came out of it, the star Anyway,
here's Gary talking about the unmade Clouseau film remnants of
the Pink Panther and an intriguing.
What if you mentioned last night actually when we were, we were
talking, we were preparing for this.
You mentioned about there was some notion of Dudley Moore at
some point? Yes, yes, divall are supposedly
as name was of floated to step into the role for Romance.
Which I don't think that anybody coming in to play the role of
closer himself. I just I don't see how that
would have bought. I think it would be catastrophic
for anybody to have tried to play a role as early as 1980.
There are there's a handful of instances of actor stepping into
another Bowl because an actor has died.
And so on one that Springs to mind is the Roy Clark sees her
with our for loans, which they already had the city's free
scripts written on the production.
All set up for our fellow, Robin Bailey took over the role for
one final series but he's obviously playing it in his own
way. Visually just looks like our
floor for one thing and he's not playing it like our fellow, I
just yeah I really can't. Imagine anybody coming in and
just trying to pick up Clouseau had left a because I hope How
Could You by that. By that point, I don't we spoke
a lot about Alan Arkin and what have you?
But I'd buy that point where when it's so it's so closely
aligned with one specific actor. You just yeah.
You just kind of visualize again.
Yeah. And by and also, by this point,
the character was so Larger than Life and cartoonish.
Keep saying cartoonish, but you know what I mean?
And the accent was so, I mean, the accent, when the film's
begin in the 60s, the accent more or less, Is, is it's a
comedy Fred Jackson, but it's certainly nothing like it was to
become in terms of the strangulated vowels and nearthe
kind of level that it that it reached as much as much as
anything else. Of course, it would have been.
The probably catastrophic Booth were built a career, because he
was right on the verge of making an offer, which was probably
along with 10 was his biggest big screen role and, and if he
Turn off fortitude to do amounts of the pink band for that would
have been. Yeah.
And he probably wouldn't have got the mama's boy gig.
Well, exactly. Yes.
And for those unaware, which is everyone except for Tyler.
And I mama's boy is a fictitious.
Dublin were a film which went straight to video and remained
as the last video in the shop even when all the other videos
have been taken out just softening.
No, I'll just I'll just watch this new course and I hope I'll
leave her be It's basically the front cover of the tape is
Dudley Moore with enormous dummy in his mouth and like in baby
sort of over and sort of holding these hands up.
So what's up baby? Supposed to do huh?
You know? Yeah, well I say it's not that
far-fetched as it? It sounds horribly.
We it's not it's not movies for men, the podcast which I've long
been a fan of is, the Anglo kiwi.
Film and TV re-evaluation show still any good in which two
friends, Chris Webb and Robert Johnson, go back and re-watch
old favorites from their childhoods through modernize and
with minimal Comfort, breaks and decide whether they hold up or
not. Well, that's in between them
vying to outdo each other with bad, dad, gags and, and general
asking about getting drunk. I think it's fair Lads.
I've been a guest on this show several times and just before
Christmas last year, they return the favor.
By pairing on goon pod to discuss the Mel Brooks film
history of the World Part 1 a film, which qualifies for this
show, by dint of seven minutes or so of heavily, bearded
Milligan, just on cleavage, on the subject.
Did you notice I was, I, was I wrong in this?
Well, God, where's this going? He's thinking this out, it's
fine. The bit where we're going back
and forth it the Roman. Our sequence where, where you've
got the Unix and you've got Gregory Hines with that sort of
feather thing going on and and in order to check his his
qualification. Yes that's authenticity.
As a they get this this lady to dance, very provocatively in
front of front of them and now She was wearing a prosthetic
chest and shit. While Ricardo Montalban and
Wrath of Khan. I was thinking more Blackadder
and mulch it in its like I said, yeah.
Now if you look at it, did, you know, did you not notice that?
I can't say, I noticed it was clearly robbed and pause it.
And reflect the international audience, which going pot
enjoys, perhaps surprisingly after the UK, the biggest
listenership is in the US and that brings me to Sean Gaffney
who Knowledge of the goons I think far surpasses Mine.
He's a huge Enthusiast that has been on the show several times
including to run down the top 20 listeners goon shows with me and
Mike Haskins and again Mike has been a huge supporter and and
guest on the show here's Sean from the episode in which we
discussed the series 5 goon show 1985 a parody of All Wells Road
to work. A Yeah, I have a question for
you that you may not know are based on one of the jokes coming
up, how heavy was Harry cecum at the time, the gun show was being
done. Well he certainly wasn't 20
stone I do but I don't think I don't think he was 420 which is
what did the previous one was different. 20 stone is 280
pounds. Hmm and 30 Stone I think is 420.
Yeah I know that he was I know that he lost five Stone in the
80s because he said so in one of his biographies well yeah to his
doctor told him that he had to otherwise Be dead.
Yeah, I think I think He piled on the weight in the 70s and
then he had to lose it. I don't think I think his weight
fluctuated in the 50s and 60s. I think it did well.
Part the gun show basically regards him as this sort of
short fat ball high. In fact, it refers to I think in
Snag in the green slide story refers to him as a little ball
of fat, which I mean obviously has done with, you know,
seacams, you know? Since but it is rather
interesting, he made. He made fun of his bait as much
as Spike did. I think it was part of his
character. Yeah, I don't think that's, I
think the pretty wasn't that much between him and Peter
Sellers terms of weight. Yeah.
Peter also fluctuated. So, that's almost all we've got
time for, but I just wanted to include some never-before-heard
material several months ago, just before Christmas, the, the
writer film academic and previous guest Adrian Smith, His
89 year old grandfather, Peter to spare a bit of time to talk
to me, via Zoom. Here's grandpa had been a huge
goons fan. And Adrian thought it might be a
nice idea to get the perspective of someone who so far and by
quite a stretch is the oldest guest I've ever had on the show.
Certainly there. Anyone is done national service.
Adrian was unfortunately, suffering from laryngitis but
you probably won't notice that I grew up with the ambition of
being a comedian professional. Ian, alright, whatever.
Had the opportunity, I would go on the stage and tell jokes or
do funny things. And the final thing with
something altogether, High prepare that comedy act, took it
to her agent in SoHo, expecting them to be very pleased with and
laughing all the time but they didn't and that was the end of I
just gave up after that. I'll provide basically that what
I was doing was sending an acute.
Within you have a shower. And why are you standing?
I was eating a loofah. When I actually I got a sueded
Shredded Wheat, and cut it up to fit in the loofah.
So I stood there, my pajamas, holding the loofah, he's in the
shredded wheat but they were told him you.
So they weren't impressed by that.
No I thought it was hilarious. So what sort of age were you?
Then we talking what? Twenties.
I should say. And was this in the in the 50s?
Yes. Oh yes.
Okay. And so did you like, did you
like listen to? All right, well, as much radio
comedy, we you sort of discriminating in your tastes or
did you like everything, like, take it from here and Hancock
and the goons equal? I do already a comedy, right?
We should follow with all very closely.
Okay. Also impressed with the goons,
that it just affected my Desire to be funny.
Do you remember what years you are doing national service?
When did you do that? Exactly.
From to, it's actually three on it.
Yeah, so you would have been so you you listen to the Goon show.
Yes, you are in the barracks. So I'm like, yeah, they're
forced. Yeah, can you remember hearing
Michael benteen? Yes.
Show admirer of her skill, right?
I think Grandpa. The basic was listening to it
from the beginning. Right.
Okay, okay, tuned in to whatever was the latest radio comedy.
That's right. Because the sad thing is that
there's only three recordings that exist that have Michael
benteen on. If you know what I mean.
They all the other goon show episodes that he featured on a
lost now they don't exist anymore and and the copies the
three at three episodes that do exist are not very good quality,
the very difficult to hear Hear the audio quality is bad, so
it's very difficult to get a really good understanding of how
he fitted into the show, and how he, how he worked, alongside the
other three if you know what I mean.
But you feel he fitted in perfectly.
Yeah. Yes, I think he is.
I also had great admiration for Jimmy Edwards.
Oh yes. I liked his comedy.
He's very good. Much money in the marsh was a
regular show is listen to do you remember that?
Well, I don't remember. I have heard episodes of it, but
we don't seem to have those same comedians nowadays for this same
sense of humor. I don't find many of the
communities. Today's funny on the spike
Milligan documentary, that was just on recently.
Yes, somebody on there, I forget which one it was talked about
how these days comedy is supposed to make you cry as
well. Yeah.
That seems to be the Common Thread is that people write
comedy to to get your emotions instead of just making you
laugh. Yes, yes, I must apologize.
My grandma. It's her birthday today.
She's 90 today. Oh, and she's pottering around
in the background like mini Bannister.
All that noise, you could hear, was her coming in to open a new
box of chocolates. You just open this up, but I
managed to keep trying to give Grandpa a chocolate as well.
He's trying to talk to you. So now he's eating one of those
chocolates. I'm not Adrian, tell you that, I
took him to despite Millions home.
Yes, yes, yes. That's right.
And it's a sign on the door. That said dedicate it to the
blind. A blind eye, socket architect.
Yes. So, did you, what did you think
of Spike as an individual? I mean, he seems to have a way
with his humor other comedians didn't have.
And so good to see him on television when he started doing
that. But I've been watching him on
all hearing to him here here. What a radio was one thing, but
the Siemens and the flesh look so different.
Yes, yes, I did. A recorded a Show recently with
someone who Made the observation that spikes best work.
Best writing was probably when he was working with other people
rather than just doing it on his own.
So so on the Goon show he worked, he had a collaborator
called Larry Stevens who wrote a lot of scripts with him and Eric
Sykes as well. He was great.
He was funny, he was a very good.
Yes. Yeah.
Where is Spike on his own? Although there was a lot that
was very successful, like the novel pacune.
Don't know if you've read pakkun From these read it several
times. Okay.
Yes. So although but a lot of spikes
later work on television when he didn't have someone there as a
almost like a steadying influence.
It could sometimes be a bit. Yeah slipshod.
Really Spike needed. Somebody to help him make.
It have some kind of shape. I think.
Yes. Maybe Larry Stevens was good at
the structure. Yes.
And obviously we know Eric Sykes went on to write That's it.
Call me. You knew he knew good narrative
structure and how to make it work.
But still be funny. Whereas Spike was less
interested in structure. I think.
Yes. Yeah which Park Hoon the miracle
of pacu and is that it makes as much sense as it does on
cycling. Well, it's an experimental novel
in many ways because it's the writer Milligan is a character
in the, in the, in the story. Yeah.
Includes himself. I don't know about you grandpa
but one of the things I've enjoyed reading the most was the
war, Memoirs, you've read those am I right?
Tyler, that, that was the first time that somebody had written a
memoir. He was just a regular soldier
that always it was always generals.
Yeah. But yes, I don't know about if
it was the first regular Soldier Memoir, but it was certainly one
of the first, if not the first that was unfettered by.
Social niceties and Barrack room language and stuff like that.
I've grown up. Grandpa was did his national
service in the Air Force? Yes.
And I've grown up hearing the stories of the Antics that
Grandpa got up to. Hmm.
So reading he's pretending to be all innocent.
Now reading them Spike Milligan, spoke just reminded me of the
kind of things Grampa. Got up to, with the other
soldiers, other and what were you?
You were grounded. What you used to do some crazy
things and get into trouble all the time.
And a lot of what you did seem to just be inspired by doing
shows you like the key. Remember the story about how you
were all on parade and you had to number it yourselves off.
Well, that's right. Yeah, we were on Parade as about
80 million parade and we had a number of from the left.
Number one, one, two, three, four, one member who when they
got up to nine. I spoken to the name beside me.
So he said, nine ten, Jack queen king sounds, as you were to
visit. Again this time we said, Jack
queen king and that was it. I was out cold on send to the
Cookhouse. I went to the Cookhouse and was
a huge machine. That was peeling potatoes.
So it's homage to do that. So I put the potatoes in.
Nobody had told me when the switch is off.
My I did. His which is, how can these
white piece? They weren't a, why was, well,
if you read the Memoirs Spike talks about some of the
punishments that were meted out on him, because of his
insubordination, and I know that, for example, he'd be made
to, I think it was something like, he might correct me if I'm
wrong, Adrian. He would have to scrub steps or
scrub a path with a toothbrush. Shhhh and paint the grass green
and things like that. And there was all in the name of
just giving him something demeaning to do as punishment.
I think, what the goons did was that it was they taught this
year because I was my grandpa. Then was the Next Generation
really after the Goon? Yes, generation of British men
doing their national service but the Goon show taught them that
they could actually disrespect the kernels and the Because the
Goon show was so irreverent about military Authority, yes.
Before then everything was very much bowing down to the commute,
the memory of the war and Military Authority.
But here was Grandpa and his friends actually being brave
enough to take the Mick. And that's because they were
hearing it on the Goon show every week, but you are still
listening to the goons when you got married.
Oh yes. Yeah, I'm sure.
I remember you telling a story that you told a story at my
wedding about one time you Decided to stay on my
grandmother was taking my mom out on the prime for a walk and
you were supposed to go to you wanted to stay at home to listen
to the Goon show Met Life here. Really yeah everything stopped
in the house show here. The Goon show, I can tell you
one good story. Actually you might remember
about 10 years ago, my grandparents are both visiting
as they live in the Midlands, but they'd come down to
Eastbourne where I live and my uncle knows.
To visit and grandpa had a heart attack while he was there was a
heart attack and you had to get obviously was hospitalized and
it's stable, but it was going to be in hospital for a few days.
So, I had an iPod Touch. No, and iPod Shuffle, one of his
little old silver ones. Yes, yes.
I'm pause button. So I loaded it up with gun shows
and gave it to grandpa with some headphones and he just lay there
in the hospital. Laughing.
There's something to be all like I told him all you gotta do is
press play, press pause and as it so he was just listening to
goon shows the whole time. He was in the hospital
recovering from a heart attack. Excellent.
Perhaps not the best thing to stay stable and calm Hospital.
But there were some so I agree but ever, so clever as a team.
I was quite surprised only a few years ago, when I actually saw
him in town television before we are going to show the the last
game. Yeah, yes.
Yeah. And sorry, and Harry seek him.
Had a house quite nearby and Sutton coldfield.
And apparently, a lot of the Moon shows rehearsing their back
garden. And when I have my, one of my
birthday's, I wrote to her In Austin, invite him to my
birthday party but of course he wrote back and said, thank you
very much having every time I can't be past their house.
And people would all lead on one side of the bus to see if they
can catch a view them. Oh, it's so that that'll be out
in the garden in the back Garden of Harrison House persons there,
drinking brandy. Yeah, we have a close friends
who somehow is Daughter or son was the same school so it's got
a connection, the area, something called, yeah.
Okay, okay. I almost want to say before we
finish that I owe a great deal of let all of the things I have
the idol. I'm interested in in my life is
because of Grandpa and his love of The Goonies.
Okay? You know when I was very when I
was young before you introduced me to the Goon show, you'd also,
you'd already given me the spike Milligan books.
You know, I grew up reading and like many people didn't.
So you got some kids. Yes, so I was well aware of all
time and I probably watching Harry cecum doing highway on a
Sunday afternoon and I was well aware of him and all the sort of
Interest I had in comedy and radio comedy.
All comes from that and also, because Grandpa wanted to be a
comedian and had this love for comedy that spread through the
whole family, really, and we're a whole family of performers and
artists and musicians. Ins and yes.
And a lot of that, all comes back to sort of grandpas desire
to entertain Excellence. As the family.
We all grew up, putting on shows what a lot of that would.
Please me, was I joined the Latter Day Saints church.
And immediately they had, they had put on shows, like regular
basis. And I was always on stage doing
something that's true, which was very useful.
That is true. Being a Mormon, enables you to
be put on a show, that's right, like practically every week.
Okay, listen. Urged.
Yeah. No.
They're always putting on shows. That's right.
Yeah, but yeah, that's just always been part of the family.
Now is putting on a show, so this sort of loves of
entertainment. All comes back to Grandpa's
fandom really going right back to the early days, the 40s and
listening to it. Mar yes goons and and all of
that stuff. So it's really kind of
fundamental to our whole family's life in many ways which
is Is rather a grand, that is wonderful.
That is wonderful to have that strain through, you know,
through each generation as talking to you hear.
You're interested in comedy. Oh no.
Lovely to speak to you, Peter. And thank you.
And I just want to ask you one last question because you did
say that you don't like new comedy.
But is there what came after the goons?
What comedy that came after the goons and Hancock?
Did you did you enjoy more than wise things like that?
Or Anything in particular. Not really, I couldn't
understand why this comedy has changed so much time in the
match by the in the Mars, the goons and simulator.
That Jesus was so good. Modern here, I find and not
funny. I'm afraid, we were just this
morning watching a Norman, Wisdom film on the TV.
It's good things like Danny. Kaye is a big fan of Danny Kaye.
Okay, okay, I guess in terms of radio comedy, kind of in the The
60s moved into more of the film comedy and be used more than
wisdom. And yeah, and that sort of stuff
I suppose. Norman Norman Wisdom is
considered is held up as a God in Albania.
You know, you know about that. Yes.
Whereas the people of the Isle of Man have different opinions
on him. Do they do I know that I do?
I know that story. I don't know while that's just
where he spent his days at the end, isn't it?
All right, okay, mmm. And with that unspoken
condemnation of Norman Wisdom. We've reached the end of the
special show. I'm sorry.
I didn't have time to include clips of everyone who's been on
the show so far but perhaps sometime, I'll release further
of these selection boxes in air quotes.
We'll see how. We'll see how this one goes
down. But for now let me quickly thank
everybody. I haven't featured so far, takes
deep breath. Ja naughty the in Billings and
gee Bud. Phil Cannon, Paul Carmichael,
Jonathan Co Tony Cross. John Doug leash, Christopher
Douglas John dredge Barnaby Jones.
Tim Elms Martin Gibbons James Griffith.
Laura, Grimshaw, Toby. Hey Doug.
Mike Haskins I mentioned Mike, but you can't mention my too
often, Jeffrey Holland. Martin homes.
Manning Kroll, Roger language. Jeremy Lin.
Graham Lindsay foot. Michael lives lie.
Peter Lydon Darrell MacLean, Molly McDade, Jane Milligan, Lee
Moon, Richard Moore, John Morris.
Anthony much Nick Newman, Henry, normal, Merrill, O'Rourke, James
page, Lisa Parker, Jeremy Phillips.
Scott fits John rain, Donna, Reese, Nick.
Reeve David Renwick Graham Rinaldi gem Roberts.
Jonathan Roberts, Eddie Robson. Jake's Anson.
Sure, Roger, Stevenson, John Street, Mark, Thomas, Andrew
Trowbridge, Richard, uh, sure, Ben Van de Velde Jeff Walker nor
Jeffers Julie Warren Keith, welcome, Robert will fit and
John Williams. So, it just remains for me to
say, thanks for all the support and downloads you can follow the
show on Twitter. It's at goon show pod.
There's a Facebook group, simply search goon pod.
Please subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss Us any
episodes and please rate and review on Apple podcasts.
It helps boost the show's visibility and I really
appreciate it. And for a five star reviews
only, please. One star reviews reduce me to
the level of Woody Allen in Annie Hall neurotically.
Staggering around the house with my head and my hands trying to
work out what I've done wrong and mentally preparing myself to
jump off a bridge. Maybe a bit dramatic, but I am a
dramatic person. Any road up, have a very happy
Easter and buh-bye. Us any episodes and please rate
and review on Apple podcasts. It helps boost the show's
visibility and I really appreciate it.
And for a five star reviews only, please.
One star reviews reduce me to the level of Woody Allen in
Annie Hall neurotically. Staggering around the house with
my head and my hands trying to work out what I've done wrong
and mentally preparing myself to jump off a bridge.
Maybe a bit dramatic, but I am a dramatic person.
Any road up, have a very happy Easter and buh-bye.