Mrs. Wilberforce, I understand you have rooms to let.
Some friends and I have formed a musical group.
We have been looking for somewhere to practice.
Let's get a professional. Mrs. Wilberforce, not only an
appendage to my branch is a very good.
How do we know we can trust her to do it right if she don't even
know what she's doing? Missus W should be coming into
view just about now. Back then.
I wonder if perhaps you'd like some tea.
Tea. Call.
Mend the plumbing. Give the parrot his medicine.
We've got to get away. What do you think we should do?
Chopra bus. Most exhilarating.
She saw the money. She'll talk.
Take care of Missus W. How about suicide?
I ain't going to do it. You're in this just as much as
we are. Simply try to behave like
gentlemen. It's a good plan.
Except for the human element. Hello and welcome to Goom Pod, a
podcast with terrible subsidence but very pretty windows.
Joining me this week is returning guest Graham Lindsey
Foote. Hello, Graham.
Hello, hello, hello. Great to be back.
Thank you for returning last time.
We spoke, we, we we were talking about a goon show.
The Silver doubloons of course. Yes indeed.
And in the in the in the interim period, a lot has happened in
your life. Not, not, Not for the good
either. You may well be right actually.
Yes, indeed. Fairly shortly after we last
spoke, which I think was February, March last year,
something like that, I went down with COVID, not one of those
things that it's not unusual, far from it.
But I'm you know I didn't end up in hospital or anything like
that. I just coughed my head off for a
fortnight as a lot of people did and thought right, feel a bit
tired. I'll go back to work.
Managed 1 morning in the office and that was in May last year.
I've not been back since. I have been dreaded long COVID.
I've turning. I've turned into Henry Crumb,
much to my wife's disgust, you know.
Indeed. You know, it's I'm, I'm a person
of a certain age, but now I feel about 20 years older, which is
absolutely fine by me because I'm reminded very much of, you
know, things that people who have embraced illnesses and
stuff like that. And I remember the wonderful
line about Michael Flanders, who, you know, when he had his
attack of polio when he was in the Royal Navy in 1943.
You know, confined him to a wheelchair, which he said was a
perfect mask for constitutional laziness.
Now, I've always been one. I think I was brought up in a
very. Some nondualistic household
where people had afternoon naps, my mother and father got rested
with the sort of people who, you know, were so knackered after
the, you know, the stresses and strains of having a meat and
potato pie for lunch. So yeah, So as a consequence,
I'm not expecting a lot of things these days.
I've got the memory span of a slightly, slightly dull goldfish
because of this. Lung COVID.
You find me, as I said, running on about 40% power, but most of
that is is my mouth. My brain might kick in
eventually, so there we go. But nevertheless a bad thing
about start but. It'll get better, I'm sure,
because what a subject we've got to talk about.
Today. I Let's talk about a good film,
a great film, a magnificent film, and take your mind off
things. So we're talking about the film,
which is pretty much regarded. I guess it kind of waxes and
wanes. Is it the greatest elite comedy?
I think it is. There's there are a couple of
contenders for that crown, I think.
But the problem is that, you know, I've been coming back to
this one for nearly forty years now pondering this and you know
I've watched a lot of dealing comedies.
I've not watched them all, not by any means.
You know, they made quite a lot of also runs during that 1947 to
1957. Period 58.
We'll talk about that in a minute.
It was a possible late entry to it which includes a goon.
I think it's more than a possible.
I think it's bona fide late entry.
Well, you think, Yeah, but I mean, yes, Davey in 1958 with
Harry Seacombe is indeed an Ealing film, whether it's it
clusters a comedy. Is a oh I see, I see.
It's light. A light comedy.
It is indeed and and this I think is the.
As time goes on, you know, and and distance, you know, we're a
long long time since 1955 now and you have to stand back and
look at which of the alien comedies actually stands up to
closer scrutiny in this day and age.
Which have got the you know that the standard themes which are
the comedy, which bits of the comedy still stand on.
And I got a a few, you know, problems with some of the also
runs. The ideas of dealing comedies as
I say is something you know to to show that that the British
stiff upper lip quite often you know especially things like
Passport to Pimlico which 1949 is, has got an awful lot of
charm. I will be honest.
But over the years I've gone off it, I think because it's you
know just it's just slightly too twee.
I don't know there's a there's a slight tweeners about that which
is possibly caused by its age. Yeah, the Tipfield Thunderbolt,
definitely like that. But then again, the blacker
comedy ones you do better with, you know, kind hearts and
colors. I've watched that recently again
and it's. Wonderful.
Brilliant boy, doesn't it? Stand up.
My, it's my wife's favorite E link.
You know what? We don't argue at all about
this. I just say yes, dear.
And you're right as far as yes. No, no, I can't disagree with
the kind. Hearts is an absolute belter of
a film. My favorite moment in that is
actually quite early on. I mean, yes, of course Guinness
is funny all the way through it, and his characterizations are so
grotesque from for the most part.
But there's an early part where Dennis Price is playing the part
of his father. Who is this operatic tenor?
And he's in a parlor singing Gilmio Tesoro from Mozart Opera,
and he's singing it with the most incredible metallic nanny
goat vibrato you've ever heard in your life.
My, my dad was a trained, operatic tenor, and I remember
the two of us seeing this for the first time when I was in the
early teens or something like that.
And we missed most of the rest of the film, crying with
laughter and just this, you know, it's, you know, like
Harry, she can drive over over corrugated iron.
You know, on a On a Boneshaker cycle, you know, it was a
wonderful this nanny goat vibrato.
That came out with. And it I oh, it still makes me
howl even now. I think it's a glorious moment
in a very, very fine film. However, Ladykillers, it's.
I think I came to this probably when I was about 1314 years old
for the first time. Hadn't seen it before.
And I'd started to get a little bit into The Goon Show.
So it was a Peter Sellers film, you know, So Peter Sellers is in
this. I'll give it a watch.
And I haven't come across much in the way of Alec Guinness by
that point and led a very sheltered life.
And I thought, this is off the scale.
Glorious. I'm younger than you by a good.
Five years I think but. They are a very good.
Five years. They are very good.
Five years. I treasure them.
I I would have been 14 because I remember I I hadn't seen this
right Okay, do you remember about about I think it was about
88, might have been 87. I think it was 88.
There was a the BAFTA awards that year.
There was a special award like a lifetime achievement award given
to Guinness. Do you remember that?
I think I do, yes. Go ahead.
And as part of the presentation, there were clips from some of
his movies. And and that was the first time
I'd seen a clip from the Lady Killers.
And I'd only recently got into the goons around that time.
Yeah, yeah. And it I'm sure that there was a
scene with Sellers in, but there was certainly the scene where
Mrs. Wilberforce opens the door that that classic iconic.
I hate using the word iconic scene where he says, Mrs.
Wilberforce, I understand you have rooms to let.
Mrs. Wilberforce, I understand you have rooms to let.
No, it's not rooms. It's rooms.
Sorry, Mrs. Wilberforce, I understand you have rooms to
let. So that that was my first
exposure to the to the film, albeit just a couple of clips,
and soon after I managed to get hold of a video copy.
And absolutely smitten. So in in 1951, Alec Guinness
starred alongside Stanley Holloway in the film we
mentioned before. What did we mention?
The Levender Hill Mob. We didn't.
That I think is one of the top three along with kind.
Hearts, I would agree. I would agree, Yeah.
And and directed by Charles Crichton, yes.
Indeed, who ended up doing fish called Wonder.
So Guinness portrays in that film a rather anxious bank clerk
who plans a heist in South London.
And the film is delightful. It's charming, it's hugely
enjoyable. And the thing I would say
though, is that the character that Guinness plays, Henry
Holland, he he, yes, he chooses to cross the line into
criminality, but there's never any suggestion that he has the
slightest hint of a. What people like to call these
days, a dark side to him, and certainly no indication of
homicidal tendencies. No, and this is a point I was
probably going to make. As far as Guinness's
characterizations are concerned, they tend to, For me, they tend
to fall into two groups. The bland, the slightly smiling,
the nervous, that sort of thing. You know, the ineffectual.
And then on the other side, you've got the grotesques.
And most definitely Lavender Hill Mob.
Henry Holland is a mild mannered version, you know.
And the mild mannered 1 comes out again in a lot of Guinness's
films. Things like the card.
What else? Oh, what's that?
The one of the last ones that they did.
Donnacle Bill, the CSIC captain. I don't know whether you've
never seen that okay, that's that's 57.
That is somebody he plays. Somebody who has always wanted
to become a captain at sea, but he suffers from seasickness,
right? OK, it's Barnacle, but it's
quite sweet. It, it's, it's a nice film again
in the way that I know a lot of the ealings are nice films to
watch. Sunday afternoon films, you
know, with a The Nichols cake and A and a brew, that sort of
thing. It's one of those.
What about? Tunes of glory.
What kind of character? Because he's playing quite a
brash. Yeah.
Now that's the point. That's a great film.
I I read the. I read the book first a long
time ago. Yes.
No, absolutely it is. He is very brash in that he's,
he's more of the grotesque, as I said, you know one of the
exaggerated ones. Have you seen him in the last
days of Hitler? If it comes to that, you know he
plays. Have you?
I haven't seen that. Is it any good though?
Nick's not great. And you know, his vocalization
on that is a little bit like, well, it's well, it's a bit like
another film. The horse's mouth I don't know
if you've ever seen. It I have not seen it.
I've heard of it. Well, we'll come back.
We'll come back to Gully Jimson in a horse's mouth at some other
point. That's.
That's a 1958 film, but it isn't a kneeling one.
But there is a link, but there is a link to the lady killers
there. I'll tell you about that.
I'll tell you about that in a bit.
All right. So, so obviously.
So you said we had, we had the we had Guinness in the Lavender
Hill Mob in 51. Then four years later, Guinness
returns in Alexander Mckendricks, the lady Killers,
as the sinister Professor Marcus, a toothsome lank haired
Wraith of a man now. Is he has he been released or
has he escaped from a madhouse? Do we think right the answer?
Well, it could be either. I don't know whether he's
managed to, you know, you know, bunk the bunk his medics, A
fiver or something like that to get out or something like that.
But that is the one moment in Lady Killers where he is
confronted by one of his accomplices, the redoubtable Mr.
Harvey, played by Herbert Long. And he said, you know, this sort
of thing is something like you dreamed up in the booby hatch.
And at that point, you know, you see, you see Professor Marcus
turn very angrily upon him until there's an interruption.
Right. I want to talk about, can we
talk about that when we get to that part of the film?
Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Slightly confused me that scene,
but I will come back. To me too, Me too, I agree.
But anyway, so so he has or he hasn't come from a.
An asylum or some, or some? Some institution.
But anyway, he he turns up at the gentilly decaying home of an
elderly widow near Saint Pancras.
He's planning an audacious robbery and has enlisted the
help of four disreputable misfits.
Ragtag bunch of socially misaligned scoundrels, pretty
much. You couldn't get four different,
could you? Absolutely.
And you could say that Professor Marcus is is in a it's kind of
in a perpetual state of barely governable irritation with his.
That's a good. That's a good way of.
Putting it with his gang, with his landlady, with himself as
well, but particularly. The plan, My plan, Yes,
absolutely. It's like that all the times.
It's the plan. Everything must be.
It's the plan to my plan. And this is the point where we
ask the question, who did he base this character on?
And there are two possibles. 1 Alistair SIM, of course, who for
quite a long time afterwards was mistaken for the person who
actually played the lead in The Lady Killers.
I don't know if you'd heard this, but this is Alistair SIM,
You know, if you look at him in Screwed or something like that,
you know, the cadaverous face, the big teeth and all that sort
of thing, you know, you know. Did Guinness base his
characterization on him? It's a possible?
But the best one I've heard is Kenneth Tynan.
Yeah, who, who, who Guinness had had quite a bit of history with
even by this point. I don't know.
Do you know this bit? Yeah, so.
So Tynan had written unfavorably about was it Macbeth that
Guinness had been in or well? He'd actually been in charge of
it for the Festival of Britain in 51.
Absolutely, Yeah, Kenneth Tyne was.
Part of the organizing committee for this disastrous was it.
I was Hamlet, I think it was. Was it?
I can't remember, Yeah, for the Festival of Britain 51 and
fairly shortly afterwards he wrote.
I think that the phrase is a monograph, but it's a fairly
heavyweight character. Assassination upon Ken on on
Alec Guinness and saying, you know, he's a good actor but he's
never going to be great. Now if you look at Kenneth Tyne
and photographs of him. At that time, I've noticed one
thing that Alec Guinness does that is a definite Kenneth
Tynanism in this film and that is how he smokes his cigarette.
Okay, you watch how Professor Marcus holds his cigarette.
He doesn't hold it between his first two fingers, he holds it
between his third and 4th fingers.
So he's actually, you know, it looks as though he's like, you
know, eating it or something. Like that, sort of, you know,
hold it like that. And that was a Kenneth Tynan
thing. I I read a book about not
Kenneth Tynan, but about theatrical types.
Yeah. Years ago, or characters within
the within, you know, British theater.
And there was a quote, which I've never been able to get out
of my head, attributed to Kenneth Tynan, and apparently he
uttered this as he was taking delivery of a vodka enema.
Which was? Oh, the hedonism, which?
I can't imagine that. No, that's.
Yeah. OK, fine.
Well, if if Guinness wanted to take the Mick out of him, yeah,
go ahead, son. Absolutely.
That's like for that sort of filthy perversion.
I know, but Professor Marcus the.
It's a it's a marvelous oh it's a marvelous creation that that
Guinness has come up with here because he's he's he's almost
like when he because you don't see obviously you don't see his
face until Mrs. Wilberforce actually opens the door.
But you do see Nosferatu like you see the shadowy, sinister
figure following her home, circling the house, and then
when she opened the door. Finger to the pointed finger
shadow towards the door. Yeah.
And see that but. But when you actually see him,
he's pale, he's washed out, he's got these hooded eyes, he's got
this really sinister aspect and the threadbare cardigan, and he
just looks like a man who spent a lot of time avoiding natural,
natural light. He just looks, he just right.
He just looks like he smells quite strongly of yeast to me.
Poor old boy. I'm starting to feel sorry for
him. Yes.
Yeah.
Yes. Crohn's.
What does he smell like? Senior Service and Hovis.
Yes. Yes.
So yeah, so this plan, the heist, it goes off without a
hitch. Almost.
But what we find with this film it's it's in the nature of the
sweetly innocent Mrs. Wilberforce.
It's in her nature to disrupt and bring chaos that is her.
It's almost like that's her role in life, and as such she
unwittingly pulls the rug from under the gang so that plans
awry in all attempts to fix matters crumbling in the face of
deep rooted Victorian rectitude, the gang ultimately decide upon
a course of action and as a result assume the roles
suggested by the film's title with one tiny snag, as one by
one, the gang exit the film. They do so perhaps ruefully,
acknowledging that they were, in the end, no match for a sweet,
lopsided old lady. It ought to look like an
accident. How about suicide?
What do you mean? Well, get her to write a note.
You know, I just couldn't stand it no more.
So I misses Wilberforce and then somebody goes down and hangs
her. Very funny.
And obviously we're talking about this and we're going to
talk about it in detail, but we're talking about this film on
goon part because it was the first major film role for Peter
Sellers. He'd been in a string of low
budget, pretty forgettable little comedies up to then Edney
Graham. Yeah, things like orders and
orders are orders and whatever else, John and Julie.
Yeah, absolutely. It's nothing which actually
stretched him. And I think to a certain extent
this does stretch him a bit, although, you know, this is
actually quite a nice characterization.
You know Harry Robinson, You know, the spiv, the Ted,
something like that. You know, nice little scar on
his cheek, obviously caused by somebody he's double crossed at
some point, but he still looks like, you know, a, you know, a
pudgy, slightly overweight Ted who you might think might have.
Not so much grit about him. I think he looks a bit soft
around the ages and I think that certainly comes to the point
when the the gang starts to double cross each other and you
know he puts himself out as a right old coward by this point.
And at this point Sellers is is, I was going to say happily
married. Sellers is married, but he's
still he's he's still, I guess, in some ways, under the
influence of his mother, Peg. Well, PEG actually had another
13 years to go at this point. Yeah, it was about 12-30 years.
He was still during it. He was still in his fat Elvis.
Period. If you want to call it that, He
did it the other way around, didn't he?
Absolutely, yes. The fat Elvis came later.
Yes, But yes. No, No, Very much so.
Still the. A Peck.
Can I have a cup of tea pack? You know Thing is Spike used to
say about him, you know, the fact that you know did he had
slip on shoes so we didn't have to tie shoelaces up you know,
bend over, you know. But he looks he looks older than
he did. Well, eight years older in like
the Pink Panther or the film we did a couple of weeks ago and I
forgot the name. Wrong arm of the law.
He looks. He looks like the older brother
of Pearly Gates, Harry Robinson. Yes, he does.
He, I'll go with that. And he was 30, as he used to say
to an when they were going out, when they were engaged.
I'm still that same fat jolly boy, you know and you know and
he was, but you know, within a couple of years you could see
him start to get a lean and hungry look.
And Shakespeare once. Absolutely.
Before we start talking about
the film in detail, before we get covered quite a bit already,
but I just, I always like to as as I'm sure you, you being an
avid goon pod listener, you want, you know that I do like to
see what else was going on in the world when things were
released or went out OK. And not a lot, again not a lot
because this was released in the UK cinemas on the 8th of
December 1955. So right at the right at the
tail end of 55 there's there's two two things that happened
which I would say would be of interest to listeners.
Okay the, the, the, the, the first one being the 8th of
December 1955. So the unveiling or the hoisting
up, is that the word or the flying of the what we now know
is the EU flag? Of course it wasn't called that
then. No, no, it was the 12 star flag
of Europe which was adopted by the Council of Europe on the 8th
of December 1955. Goodness me, I I mentioned that
I I, you know, I I make no comment.
I will just leave that there. It's yes.
Well, I'll, I'll similarly say. No comments.
We all have our views. Yes, that was the line out of
kind. Hearts and coronates, wasn't it?
Alec Guinness, when he's the photographer, I don't know, you
know, he says. You know, I don't drink.
You know I can't drink in front of my wife.
My wife has views, yes. Doesn't he get blown up in his?
Yes, that's right. Yes.
Yeah. He's took petrol into his
paraffin heater or something like that.
I see through. Yes.
No, my wife has views. God forbid your wife should have
views on anything. Edit Edit this bit out.
Yeah, right. I'm joking.
She won't listen to this. She has enough of me talking in
the real life and you don't go. But the other thing that
happened on this day, which will be of interest to Goon Pod
listeners, have you heard of the missing Christmas parcel?
Indeed, it is a very short show which I think exists.
Is that not the case? In that case, I'll go away now.
It was OK. I don't know what I'm talking
about. You're half right.
It was a very short going show. Yes, it was a little special
sort of 15 minute segment which was to be included in Children's
Hour on the eighth of the seminar 55.
That's it. Yeah, I remember that scene.
The missing Christmas Parcel, a special goon show with Peter
Sellers, Harry Sigmund, Spike Milligan, assisted by John Snag.
OK, bless him and the synopsis reads.
Nelly Seagoon endeavors to illustrate, with the aid of a
smoked glass air trumpet, exactly what happens to
Christmas parcels which have posted too late to arrive by
Christmas. Be warned by the Ghastly series
of misfortunes and post early for Christmas It says Okay
Script by Eric Sykes and produced by Peter Eaton and John
Lane. All right, now the show does not
exist. Is it gone right.
Okay. But the script does exist and I
have read the script and it's fairly throw away.
All the characters are there but but it just it's basically 1415
minutes of them basically reinforcing driving home the
point that you must post before. I think it's the 19th of
December or something like that. It was the 17th of December.
Otherwise your parcels will not reach their intended
destination. Now that's all well and good,
it's all well and good right? But how many?
How many children would be posting Christmas parcels even
in 1955? I don't know.
It's a good question. I'm trying to think what my
mother have done, so possibly not.
I don't think my father would have, no anyway.
But then I suppose, interesting thought.
I suppose they listened this propaganda.
This sort of this is basically Henry Holmes point and they then
go and tell their parents. Well, I mean The thing is if it
wants to want things to get there for this Christmas, I'd
say next week, you know, post then you know, and if it and if
it's off wish next year, you know, go ahead.
Yeah, yes. Or yeah, I was going to say
something else. I'll hold that.
It was recorded by the way that this little segment was recorded
the same day it was at lunchtime on the day that they recorded
the Sale of Manhattan episode. That's a good show.
Yeah.
Yeah so anyway let's we've we've we've dispensed with that
formality. We just.
I just want to do a little bit of background to the to the film
itself to the creation of the film and and feel free to to to
jump in. And it's it's the product really
of two Americans both of whom ended up living in the UK.
In Britain, in the sense we have William Rose, who was the
scriptwriter who came up with the idea which apparently he he
had in a dream. He dreamt this, I believe.
So yes, indeed, that's he did actually repeat this number of
occasions and said, you know, all he needed to do was just
fill in the detail. Yeah, but you have to know the
plot came to him in a dream. What a plot.
What a dream. And and and he he'd been.
He'd written the film Genevieve and he would go on to to write
The Smallest Show on Earth, The Sellersville, as well as I think
he did the Maggie and a number of films.
And he he married a Brit after the war and and settled in in
Britain. And he took this idea to
Alexander Mckendrick, who had been born into the US and moved
to Scotland when he was about six or seven.
And he was an interesting fellow.
He did, you know he used to draw propaganda cartoons during the
war. That was his job, or one of his.
Jobs didn't know that. No, no, that's that's
fascinating. You know that don't stop me on
wartime cartoonists like Sirle and people like that because
you'll never get me off mine together.
It's probably not very interesting on a on a an audio
goon pod. But yes, no, he's.
I love anything like that. It was the David Lowe.
David Lowe Yeah, people like that.
I think Fugas as well. But there were people like that,
you know, did all of these things.
The killers talk, cost lives and whatever.
Yeah, but yes, indeed, no. So he was a cartoonist,
actually, and then he moved into films after the war.
His first film was Whiskey Galore for Ely.
That's a good one. Yes, it is, that is.
That is, that is a good one. And now this.
This sounds crazy for some You know, somebody who likes healing
comedies. I've got the box sets of healing
comedies, DVD Cabinet Downstairs, a lot of roads, and
there's only really three, possibly four, that I'll go back
to. Obviously this one kind hearts
Lavender Hill and the man in the white suit.
Oh yeah, which McKay Droves directed Exactly.
Yeah, it's a great and that's a fun film.
It's it's not. It's not the top three, but it's
a good one. In my in my opinion, I watched
that again maybe 6-12 months ago.
It was okay. I remember really liking it when
I saw it the first time around, which was 30 years ago, and then
I found it a bit of a chore this time.
Exactly. Now.
Exactly. That's the very feeling I get
about these things now, you know, I don't get that with lady
killers. Never get it with kind hearts.
Don't get it with love and hill mob.
But you know, it is a bit of a chore.
It's a little, some bits of it slightly slow moving and
tedious. So yeah, so so we have William
Rose who took this idea to or half written script even to
Mckendrick. Mckendrick went to studio head
eating studio head Michael Balkan who is people know is was
I should say the grandfather of Daniel Day Lewis who is one of
my all time favorite actors. I love him so much in There Will
Be Blood I think it's to a divorce.
But anyway Michael Michael Balkan.
He took some persuading to green light this film in which five
sixth of the principal caster killed off by the end.
I've spoiled it there I'm afraid.
But. Yes, indeed.
I was wondering how we're going to deal with the spoilers.
But who hasn't seen this? Who's actually listening to
this? It's nearly 70 years old the
film, and we always spoil films in this anyway, so this should
have sounded a claxon. Perhaps before I'd drop that
that one. But anyway, we'll come to that.
And. But in the end, Belkin was was
persuaded, as she said they would.
They would. Initially they thought about
casting Alistair SIM, but then thought thought better of it.
He'd have been, he'd have been just.
No, he wouldn't have been as good.
I don't think Woody, do you think Or Woody?
I don't know. It's a good question.
I mean, he would have, he would have looked like Professor
Marcus in everybody's mind, I'm sure, but I I think they.
I don't. I've seen him in quite a lot of
things. I've seen, you know, obviously
green for danger and all of that sort of thing.
But you know his, his cut, his stocking trade was always, you
know, a panicky resignation and whether, you know, he could be
tacky. Of course he could look at him
in Scrooge, but Guinness is great in this.
He also Sims has a has a has a line in sort of, would you call
it bland amusement? Bland.
Absolutely, indeed he can. Oh, don't don't stop me on
inspector calls. Not not only did I used to teach
it, but I in my in the previous life as an English teacher, but
my eldest son had to do that for GCSE last year as well, so I've
had quite a lot of Alistair this last year.
But no, he's he was marvelous in that, you know, a lovely
stillness about him, you know, as the inspector.
But whether he could have, I'm sure he could have done it just
as well as Guinness, but it would have been very different.
And for me, Guinness is just, I think Guinness.
Guinness probably brings more more of a sense of mania to the
character. Than yes, exactly.
There's the bit, There's the bit.
And look, here's me jumping ahead.
There's the bit when they're entertaining the old ladies
against their will and Guinness is at the piano and he is.
He is like a soul cartoon, the way he's crouched, the way his,
his, his back is arched as he's banging away on the piano.
I know, I know. Well, the nice thing is, you
know, he's, it's a pianola, so he's pumping it with his feet,
you know, looking miserable about this.
And you know and everybody else again is this was a laugh out
loud moment for myself and my dad years ago with the singing
Silver threads among the gold. And at this point we get the
wonderful Edie Martin, the lady who reads the newspaper out
earlier on and she has got, you know she was such a bird like
little creature in any case. You know the round glasses and
it's Min it's Minnie Banister. You know you can hear her.
You know, coming in a line or two later after the song starts
with her own octave above Viprato version.
You know, darling, we are growing old in the background.
I love Edie Martin to little bits in that.
But yes, as you say, Guinness is, you know, crouched the, you
know, teeth protruding, scowling furiously.
All of these old birds are chirping away and and the
parrots are dancing and I've got, I've got, as we're
talking by the way, I've got the film on in the background, so
I'm as we're talking I'm watching it and Guinness, his
expressions change like lightning.
He goes from this, this, this sort of ingratiating grin to
this scow, to this look of shared panic in a matter of
seconds. Which proves that Kenneth Timon
was wrong. Yes, about him.
Very much so. It's so fun.
Now, if if right. I'm no fan of Star Wars.
Okay, I'm really no fan of. Neither am I.
Neither am I I've seen it once. I saw the first one.
What? I refused to call it the 4th 1
or whatever the hell it is. But I've saw this 1977 one once
and that's once was enough, right?
But I would have watched it more if Guinness had decided to
elected to play the character of Obi Wan Kenobi as Professor
Marcus. Yes, that would have been most
kind. Yes, that would have been.
That would have been excellent, wouldn't it?
Absolutely. Yes, indeed, I'm afraid.
Oh, please. Anybody who knows me who likes
Star Wars and. This includes my oldest lad.
You know, Forgive me, I'm not a fan.
I saw the first two when they came out of the flicks in 77 and
80. I didn't bother with the 3rd and
that was it. And I've never seen any of it
since. I know of it, of course, but you
know who doesn't. But you know I agree with you as
far as Guinness. If you'd have played it like
that, you know, may the Force be with you.
Yeah, it's like, yeah, I can see that.
Brilliant, wouldn't it? So in terms of other casting,
they they originally had Richard Attenborough in mind for Harry
the the Spiff character, which I can see because he'd been Pinky
and me and. Yeah, in Brighton Rock, yeah,
but Alexander Mckendrick, and I think his name is Seth Holt, who
was one of the executive producers.
They were big fans of the Goon Show and Mckendrick in
particular had wanted sellers, had wanted to work with Sellers
and he thought that this role as Harry would be perfect and and
that's how that came about. Now Katie Johnson who plays Mrs.
Wilberforce, who's wonderful and and the actress when she was
filming it she was actually older than Mrs. Wilberforce is
meant to be by by a couple of years.
Because because you can like because her 21st birthday.
Mrs. Johnson sorry Mrs. Wilberforce's 21st birthday as
she tells the gang, coincided with the death of Queen
Victoria. In 1901?
That's right. So she was born in 1880, yes.
Which would have made her 75 when this happened.
Yeah, Katie. Katie Johnson was 78 or 79 when
they were they actually had cut. Now apparently this is IMDb
trivia this bit now most of my information is not IMDb trivia.
I stressed that okay but IMDb trivia says that they had cast
someone younger as Mrs. Wilberforce but she died before
they started shooting. So they they then offered the
role to Katie Johnson. But the problem was, because she
was so old or elderly, there was a problem with the there was
going to be additional insurance costs.
Now get this right, she offered. Katie Johnson offered to pay the
extra costs out of her own savings.
Goodness. And her career up to this point
had been really unspectacular. She mostly played bit roles and
minor old lady roles, very often uncredited.
And this was her penultimate film, and this is her biggest
film. And she wanted, she wanted to
ask her, she wanted to BAFTA for this role.
Marvelous. And she is brilliant.
And I'm looking at her now and she just looks, you know, you'd
think she would she. You think she did.
She'd be the star of a dozen films before.
Yeah. She was so believable, Yeah.
In this, you know everything about her is believable.
Well, there's nothing for it. Don't have to come in, but
Please remember this. These are some of my oldest and
closest friends. They mustn't get the slightest
inkling of this disgraceful affair.
Oh, really? This is the most embarrassing
position. Embarrassing and humiliating.
Simply try for one hour to behave like gentlemen.
All right, man. Even moments when she's there
was one moment where she indulges in some broad humor,
and that's very early on. It's, you know, when you know
she's she's gone home. She's made a nuisance of herself
at the police station that morning, as she often did.
And she's gone home to fill her kettle.
And she puts the kettle under the tap in her Belfast sink,
turns the tap on and nothing happens except the standard
Victorian plumbing noise that you get in old houses, you know.
And she picks up off the wall and mallet and hits the pipe
work above the sink four times incredibly hard, and eventually
the water starts to come through.
That's the one moment of, you know, real broad humor that she
does. The rest of the time.
She is very prim and proper all the way through it.
It's just it's a beautiful section.
It is. The always makes me laugh.
We see it. We see that a number of times in
the film the in the in constant pipe work that she has to do
with. Well, that old adds to the, you
know, the atmosphere of this. You know the knackered Kings
Cross in 1955. Yeah, you can imagine King's
Cross and Victorian plumbing and all of that.
It's as you can say. It's the American view I guess
of you know how knackered England was after the war.
That's right. And the and the house that she
lives in was purpose, purpose built or the OR the at least the
exterior was and and I believe it was built on Argyle St.
I didn't know that. And they decided that the decor,
the interior decor would be very muted.
The colors would be very muted in some cases, Gray, grayscale,
kind of. As well as the casts, costumes,
largely, you know, there's no, no, no really bright colors,
lots of muted Browns and Grays and greens, and the house itself
is unchanged after more than 50 years.
There's no mod cons to speak of and it's it's also suffering
from subsidence and it's lopsided the house.
The house is lopsided, as is the the occupant.
And there's the lovely little bit where Guinness is looking
when he first arrives and he's looking around the house and he
keeps straightening the. Yes.
One of them just goes straight back off the straight, doesn't
it? You know, off the perpendicular.
Yeah, you know the toothy Scowley gives it at that point.
You know what? But yes, no, it's it's wonderful
to see, you know, very, very minutely observed.
Very, very well well realized. Yeah, He inquires about the
rooms to let. As we know he he basically says
that he wants to use the rooms to rehearse his string quartet,
and she's very taken by this idea.
And so he moves in and then the next day we see arriving the
other members of the quote quintet we'll begin, we've got,
we've got Major Courtney, who is Cecil Parker, who was probably
one of those Army majors who was cashiered out of the Army from
embezzlement or something like that.
It is like blood knocks, slightly less dodgy brother.
It is. I think you know, yeah.
Seth Parker is. It is.
Yes, it is he. Of course he was in heavens
above with yes, sellers. Yes, I was playing Bishop Lee.
Type of people, isn't he? You know, if it wasn't a major,
he was a Bishop. Yeah, because I saw him most
recently in I Was Monty's double, where again, he was
playing in military season. He plays military types, not
Sergeant majors, but tends to be sort of colonels or majors.
Yes, one's not quite in control exactly.
Yeah, very slightly panicky around the edges, Yeah.
Yeah. So you have the Major, you have
Mr. Lawson, whose nickname is One Round, which is the actor
Danny grew actor. It was he, was he an actor?
Was he? I'm not quite sure what he was,
Danny Green. I don't know Danny Green.
I don't know. But he was perfect.
I mean for. The role, whatever he was, you
know, one round, because that's all.
But anybody ever managed to stay in the boxing ring with him for
I only got that. You know, I took me years to get
that. I didn't understand that.
But yeah, yeah. But he know he's as punch drunk
as they come. And Matt, you know, wonderfully,
wonderfully slow. Well, yeah.
But you look at him and you think he would be the sort that
would be typically cast as a fobbish dandy in Regency dramas.
But no. Harry is giving a chance to flex
his muscles as a heavy and and of course making up the gang is,
is young Peter Sellers as as Harry Robinson.
Yeah, Sellers apparently was, because it was his first big
film. He was understandably quite
jittery and nervous on set and and quite cowed by appearing in
the same film as his idol, which is Alec Guinness.
Guinness wrote later in his memoirs that he felt that
Sellers was a bit surly on set and and and it comes across in
the character. I guess that sort of nervous,
nervous ticks, the jitteriness, the the the, the lack of
confidence that he. I think, well that was something
that set us up with all his life, you know, and he had
confidence in his abilities. Now this is the point.
Did he have confidence in his abilities in 55 when he was I?
I wouldn't have thought as much, no.
No, no from it, Particularly up against people like Guinness.
Well, absolutely. You know this this was a big
this was technical, this was an Ealing comedy in color.
Despite the fact that they were muted colors, as you say, you
know, so there was a there was a budget in this and quite a bit
of budget. And I can, I can understand, you
know, Guinness thinking he was surly, but you know, what was
sellers like on other film sets? You know, if he was daunted by
this, that's perfectly understandable.
I suppose it's only in later life, I suppose, that he started
to well, you know, flex, whatever.
You know, muscles, he felt he could flex.
You know, he was. He was a bankable star by that
point. Of course.
It said that if Sellers was playing a decent character, nice
character in a film, that he would be nice on set.
Or if he was playing a villainous character or a nasty
character, as in Never Let Go, he'd been Never Let Go Sleep
bastard. And that's right, and that's,
that's his son said. That actually made me in the
life when they were doing never let go, Absolutely.
And Harry Robinson is is is a I mean Richard Lewis describes the
character as a little bit like an adult blue bottle in some way
and and you can kind of see I suppose at a stretch but but he
but he is quite you know he is a bit he's quite a jittery
character in general and so Sellers I guess was just you
know what's the word in the. Zone in the zone.
Yes, I I said. He was making up the gang.
There was one member I I forgot to mention.
And of course if you think of Peter Sellers these days, if
anyone, anyone who are not, you know, big fans like like we are
and this is to this podcast. If you talk about Peter Sellers,
generally speaking people will get think of the Pink Panther
films, the Closso films. And if you think about closso
you think about Cato. Who else do you think about?
Herbert Charles Angelo Kokatchevitch Za Shlu de
Pakharou. Easy for you to say.
Herbert Lum. Herbert Lum, yeah.
And of course, this. This would be her seller's first
meeting with Herbert Long, because Herbert is the last
member of the gang. Louis Harvey.
It's a. Strange thing, isn't it?
Because you know Louis Harvey, English name, you know, or
possibly slightly foreign, you know with the Louie and all that
sort of thing. And I've been trying to place
Long's accent in this. He was check, wasn't he?
He was check. Absolutely, he was.
So you know that I think there is something strangely Eastern
European about the accent that he's still carrying.
And I think he probably carried that all, you know, in in other
roles in his life. I've not seen any of the human
jungle, which has been repeated on talking pictures, I think in
in recent months. Yeah.
Is it any good? Not really.
Okay, that's fine in Hell drivers.
He plays an Italian, I think, doesn't he?
Oh, that's right. He does.
Oh, that's a fine film. It's a great film.
It's a fine film. But yes, in this you hear him
and there's still that strange, you know I hate little old
ladies. Yes, you know there's that that
is that's going on. Oh, I'll tell you something.
This is lovely. I don't know whether.
My old friend Christopher Smith is listening to this.
CJ you you interviewed him the other day, some months ago.
I remember we we both used to be great friends with Herbert
Long's PA and one day she got him when they were on holiday
somewhere, I think it was in Vienna to send us some postcards
and I've. I've got wine guys, you know,
dear Graham, having a wonderful time with Maxine and Mozart,
etcetera, Herbert and Chris is. And said, you know, there's
something similar on the lines. PS I still hate little old
ladies. Oh wonderful, brilliant.
I. Hope he still got it.
I hope he still got it. Brilliant.
I have to ask him that sometime, yeah.
And he's the most. He's the darkest character in
the gang in the sense that he's the most threatening.
Sinister. Very much so, Yes, absolutely.
You know, You think you know, I wouldn't would like to see you
in The Dark Knight. I bet you've got fish ups and
he's he's the one who's comes up against all sort of locks horns
with Marcus the most. And apparently he long was
wearing a Black Hat for this role often because well, I don't
think DC DC without the hat because he was playing the king
of Siam and the King and I on the West End at the time, so we
had a shaven head for most of the.
I don't think you do change that.
Come to mention. Come to mention if it if.
If you do I don't think you do being no.
I think you're right. Yeah.
Cat cowboy movies. The villains in the Black Hat.
Carry on. We have to have someone to bring
out the money. Let's get a professional or
bring it out ourselves, because spectacular getaway.
You mean that 70 miles an hour in the heart of London in broad
daylight? I'll take it back into the
station and send it out by train.
What any intelligent policeman would expect us to do.
Quite a flare lawyer for the obvious.
Can't you appreciate that Mrs. Wilberforce is not a mere
appendage to my branch? Is a very car of it.
Lopsided old grandma. Yeah.
How do we know we can trust her to do it right if she don't even
know what she's doing? One round weak little old lady
like her just don't seem right for her to be working with us on
a stick up paper. Tell you, I don't like old
ladies. I don't like having them around.
Can't stand them and so the plan is essentially that they're
going to rob £60,000 from is it the male train or a male train
at male trains cross station and they are going to involve Mrs.
Wilberforce in the in the plan. In the heist she will be
dispatched to collect the trunk that the booty is in and she
will bring it home under the very noses of the police.
And Louie is against this plan. Yeah, you can't trust her, for
goodness sakes. You know, I hate little old
ladies. You know, she she'll muck the
whole thing up. You know, this is a sort of, you
know, plan that was dreamed up in the booby hatch.
Rightly so. This is the bit.
Explain this bit to me that the editing is all over the place I
feel. It's a shocker, isn't it?
At that point, what is all going on there?
I don't know. I don't know.
You know, you know you must, you know it is you know, says
something along the lines if it is my plan or the plan or
something like that. And you know that the the music
swells and then it sort of like comes to an end or something
like that, with Mrs. Wilberforce bringing in yet another tray of
tea. But, you know, he turns to Louis
at one point and looks as though there's something very menacing
going to happen at this point. He gets very angry at the
mention of the booby hatch. Yeah, it's just.
But you're right, it's an it's an odd moment, isn't it?
You know? Absolutely.
You think to yourself, you know, he's, you know.
If he hadn't have been interrupted, would he have
killed Louis Harvey? At that .1 wonders how, how,
how, how how unhinged is Marcus. It's kind of like, yeah, if
anyone suggests his questions, his sanity, the implication
that, you know, one of the most annoying.
I mean, I do. I do enjoy the Back to the
Future franchise, but I don't like the way they sort of
retrospectively in this from the second film gave Marty McFly
this. The red mist would descend if
anyone ever called him a chicken.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's.
Yeah, it's not a. It's a clumsy device.
It was a clot device. Yeah, that was.
It's a clumsy, clumsy device. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. But.
And I think there might be something along the lines of
that with Guinness here. But it's a moment.
Which I agree with you. You know, the editing's all over
the place and it doesn't quite fit with the rest of the film.
It's just this strange little peak that's about to happen.
And then it it goes wrong. Yes.
Yeah. You know, I'd love to know the
story behind that, so maybe someone listening can can write
in. Indeed now when when you talk
about the the film Ladykillers 1955 version will come to the
other one briefly later. But when you when you think
about the proper Ladykillers film, yes, one of the most, one
of the things that's most closely associated with it is
the the music that which I believe is Boccarini's minuet.
Boccarini's that sort of, yes, there's a little bit of hide and
serenade in there as well. And every time I hear the
Boccarini spring quarter, if I've got Classic FM on in the
car or something like that. I'm back watching Lady Killers
in me mind it's, you know, it is completely you know, I would say
that you could not hear that piece of music without thinking
of The Lady Killers at all. No.
Not at all. There's another little link here
as far as the music is concerned.
Nobody really talks about the soundtrack of this because it's
just so suffused with Pocarini, you know it's everywhere.
But the person who did the sound of the the, the score for this
film is a guy called Tristan Carey.
You may or may not have heard of him.
He was an early electronic music pioneer.
He was about 30 years old. So that major sellers by the
sorry music. No, no, no, not quite, no.
But actually yes, indeed. There would have been any points
of fact. Yes, there was music conquest in
this. Of course, you know, it was
early tape stuff in that. And eventually he was a
cofounder of a company called EMS who made the V CS3, the
first available portable synthesizer.
You know some, you know, some years later with, you know, the
the great pieces in Ovia from David Cockrell, who is, I
believe, still working. It's Electro harmonics in the
United States making effects pedals in all of these years
later. But yeah, the EMS Synthee, EMS
Synthee 100 and all that sort of thing.
Tristan Carey was one of the founders of this.
He also did music for Doctor Who and the Daleks, Quite a mass in
the pit in 67, all of these. So you know this.
This was his first real school that he did.
His father was an Irish author called Joyce Carey.
He wrote the book The Horse's Mouth, which is the film that
Alec Guinness starred in three years later as Gully Jimson.
So there's the link, right? Know whether there's any sort
of, you know, weird. 6 degrees of separation thing about that.
You never know the might be I love.
There's a lovely little piece of getting back to the film.
So there's a lovely little piece of comic business with sellers.
In order for for them to keep Mrs. Wilberforce oblivious of
what's going on. They are posing as a string
quartet and they are supposedly practicing in in the room and
they're playing this gramophone record of baccarini's minuet.
But yeah, Mrs. Wilberforce keeps interrupting them to bring in
cups of tea and there's a lovely sequence a lovely little bit,
where the forgot sellers as as Harry has forgotten something,
he runs into a room and then runs back into the other room
off screen if you like, and you hear, just hear him go off as he
collides. We don't see it, but we we
gather he's collided with the rather large stomach of one
round. Yeah, that's this is it.
Even though that this is such a dark film, it's a funny film.
You know, there are wonderful bits of comic business all the
way through it. You know, as I say, you know,
when Mrs. Wilberforce knocks on the door, and so they have to
take the gramophone record off. And pose there with the violins
into their chins, you know. No, Mrs. Wilberforce, we don't
want anymore tea. Thank you.
It's one of the thing. And I wondered whether.
No, it's fine, thank you, you know, and so on and so forth.
Trying to plot this robbery. You know it's beautiful.
Oh, I'm so sorry. I do apologize.
I assure you, he's never bitten anyone before.
I wonder how much to get him down.
Oh, I am so sorry, Mr. Robinson. I'll get a band.
No, don't bother, Mrs. Wilberforce.
It's alright. Swap the deck yourself.
You're filthy looking. Oh dear, Oh dear.
Oh, Mr. Robinson. Mrs. Wilberforce has a
collection of parrots, including including, I believe it's a
cockatoo called General Gordon and.
And supposedly, Sellers voiced the parrots.
Yeah, see? I believe so.
Yeah, swap the decks. Yeah, swap.
Those and it bites them at one. But don't swap the deck
yourself. You're wrong.
Which is another example, because when we talked about
Wrong arm of the lore a few weeks ago, there's a scene with.
Sellers as Pearly Gates and Toot, Lenkov, Ziggy Schmaltz,
and Sellers was doing the voice of Ziggy Schmaltz.
So there's a scene where Sellers is effectively talking to
himself on screen. So you've got the same same
thing here, really, haven't you? The parents.
The MC Creaky Rising of 74 all over again.
Yes. Yes, yes.
It's not a great show that. No, it is a total show.
I'm sorry, it's not my favorite. We're gonna do that one
sometime. I'm so sorry.
Right. I don't want to go off subject
too much here, but people are people that insist that you
cannot tell that it's sellers instead of Milligan being
wilfully ignorant there, I think.
And they are, of course they are in this, you know, Yes.
No. Of course they are idiots, yeah.
Shut up, fools. Anyway, the fools, I say no.
The letters. Oh, there's always on but.
But then we get I suppose let's get to the the point and I
appreciate we're we're rushing through this but we can come
back and talk about other bits that you know we miss out if you
like later. But we get we get the actual
heist itself, which it's carried out with great efficiency and
and the gangs work together well I think.
Yeah, they do. And you know, the the timing of
it is absolutely beautiful. You know everything that you
know. Could have gone wrong, does not
go wrong. You know again that's reflected
in the soundtrack. You've got this constant ticking
all the way through, you know this this clock like thing and
it is going like clockwork and you know she should be coming to
view just about now. It's like, you know, it is a
very well. Executed plan until something
starts to go wrong. But I mean, but as as is the
classic convention when you have a heist keeper, generally
speaking the first half of film involves the planning and the
execution and then then second-half is the fallout and
and and collapse and arrest and everything else as as here and
we get Mrs. Wilberforce arriving to pick up the trunk.
And the the police and detectives are looking for what
are they doing. They're looking for outgoing
parcels. That's right.
But she. So hang on.
This is the bit that's a bit confusing.
She picks up the trunk and then she returns to the station
because she's left her umbrella, which is something that she
does. And she gets into a cab driven
by Kenneth Connor, uncredited Kenneth Connor.
Cool. Yeah, me.
So Cook. No, that was Leslie Phillips.
Forgive me. It's the other one.
Hello, dear. All right, good one.
He Paul King of Connor doesn't get a credit, but Frankie Howard
does, and I'm afraid I don't think he was deserving of it.
Not in this film anyway. Don't stop me on Frankie Howard,
because I'll use. Ladies and what?
No, I'm not going to do that. Frankie Howard, I used to like
and but he's very much a one note actor and you know, you you
watch him getting furious, you know, with some horse eating all
the fruit off his Barrow. Look what he's doing, you know,
the sort of, and it's exactly the same act that he did until
his death all the way through now.
You know, sometimes I'd find him funny because, you know, the
scripts that he had were okay, you know, for his stand up and
all that sort of thing. But I think, but I read Bob
Monkhouse's crying with laughter and I'll never look at Frankie.
I would in the same way ever again, Thank you very much.
But I haven't read that, but I have heard the stories.
Read the book. It's a It's a one of the finest
autobiographies I've ever read. It's really well, I do.
I do like me a bit of Bob Monkhouse.
Yeah, I must have. Yeah.
Crying with laughter. I can't recommend it highly
enough. I read it on holiday last year
and it's and it and it sticks on in your mind like a greasy
thumbprint. It's there forever.
Then makes, makes note, makes note, makes note another one.
Sorry. Yes, Frankie does not deserve a
credit in this much. Well can if kind of Connor
doesn't. And you Stratford John's as a
security. He's in this as well isn't, and
he doesn't get a credit either. I do.
I do like. Well, actually I haven't seen
them since. Since whenever they were
broadcast. But do you remember the just
before he died, Frankie did that series of sort of on the road
live shows? The students, yes.
The student union, Yes, they were all.
Right, I thought. They.
Were they were all right? And a couple of years ago I went
to a recording and audible recording of Pompeii with the
fabulous David Benson. Oh yes, who nailed the voice
like? Nobody I've ever heard nail it
in my life. I was, you know, shut your eyes
and he's there. He's one of those.
And that was that was a fun thing to go to as well.
In point of fact, I actually quite like Pompeii.
But anyway, yes. So, so, missus.
So anyway, Frankie Howard is carrying on with a horse or
something. Or he's being me.
He's being cruel to a horse. Which?
He's eating £3.00 of my apples already, whatever he's added.
That's it. And miss and the horse is called
Dennis, by the way, I believe Dennis.
Mrs. Wilbefore sees all this happening and she insists that
Kenneth Connor put on the brakes and she gets out and she she
starts remonstrating with Frankie Howard and the trunk
somehow is left on the side of the road and the the gang is
sort of driving past, watching all this going on, sort of
crouching down in their seats, aghast at what's happening.
And and and they ends up with the the Ross is arriving and
there's a scene at the police station and then finally Mrs.
Wilberforce is returned home and the police help her with the
trunk and they they place the trunk in the hole.
And the gang oblivious to this, they they think everything.
They're freaking out. They're thinking everything's
going horribly wrong. They arrived back at the at the
house and open the door. And what do they see?
The trunk? The trunk.
Happy days and you think to yourself, well, that's great.
Yeah and and they would have got away with it but for if it
hadn't been for for one round clumsy or one round.
I mean they they take the so it's lovely as well with one
round when they take the the trunk upstairs and they admire
the whole because what does he say?
He says look at that. What does he say exactly?
Yeah, it's almost like an Echols line, isn't it?
Something like that money would be worth a fortune or something
like it's something like that. I can't remember.
Look at that. Look at that.
Or something like that. Yeah, they're just admiring the
beauty. Yeah.
And they they obviously they stuffed their instrument cases
with with their share of the money and that they, as they're
leaving one round, gets his cello case stuck in the door
somehow when he pulls it and pulls it.
Gives an almighty tug and the money flies.
The money that they use which was which they they Mckendrick,
wanted it to look as close to real money as absolutely
possible. So short of actually, you know,
going and borrowing or taking 60,000 pounds of notes from the
bank, they got permission or authorization from the treasury
to get to use these near facsimiles which was, which was
exactly 60,000 pounds made-up of £1.10 shilling notes.
Tells bells. You see, this is the point.
You don't think of these things when you're actually seeing
this. You know, it's a great thing
about cinema as you suspend disbelief and, you know, you
think to yourself, Oh yes, well that'll be a prop.
But the the amount of trouble that was gone into to get that
prop is something to behold. It really is Missus.
Wilberforce sees the money. She's she's momentarily
confused, discombobulated, does not, does not know what is, what
is going on. The gang contemplate escaping,
but then they just realized that she'll probably talk, so they
feel they've got no option but to return to the house.
And they tried to explain to Missus Wolberforce, but she has
four of her oldest friends arriving for tea and.
To take tea and they will behave, and they will behave
themselves. They will the gang, yes.
And of course one of the one of the the elderly ladies, one of
the little old ladies is is Edie Martin.
Yes, absolutely. She reads the newspaper about,
you know, the bank, the the, the King's Cross robbery and they
all you know, Mrs. John, Mrs. Wilberforce understands what has
happened and the wonderful thing is the crooks look shame faced
this particularly Marcus. You know, we are humbled and
ashamed. You know, it's one of those
looks as if to say, you know, if you were these hardened
criminals, if you was, you know, this madman, this lunatic, you
wouldn't care. You'd slaughter the lot of them
in that living room. You know, who drop a piano on
their head or something. I don't know.
But you know, that doesn't happen.
There's strange gentility about that moment.
Well, also The thing is about this film was that there's a
wonderful It's a there's a perfect 3X structure to it.
Because it's it's it's almost exactly 90 minute long.
At the 30 minute mark we essentially get the heist itself
and the the getaway. And then it's around this point
or we're coming up to this point sort of the hour mark of the
film where they realize that the, you know, Mrs. Wilberforce
knows all basically, and her mood has changed from.
Up to this point, from benign sweetness to stern disapproval
indeed. And her her Victorian values
will not let them get away with this.
Not even with Marcus suggesting that it's only going to be a,
you know, a falling or a hate on everybody's insurance bill, you
know, and she said, you know, she thinks about it.
You know, she said if it's only a falling, it's not, no, it's
not right. You know this needs to this
needs to be put right? She needs things to be put
right. Quite right too.
Yes indeed, good old Mrs. Wilberfold.
Now apparently there was quite a bit of footage that was shot but
never used, and I think it was that Michael Balkan who pretty
much insisted that all comedies, all eating comedies, should be
about 90 minutes in length. No, no more something.
It was either Michael Balkan or someone you know, highfalutin
within. Within the the company.
With the kneeling, yes. So they so they shot quite a bit
of footage that was never used and unfortunately none of it
appears to exist and was probably burned or bend by the
BBC because they bought the studio in studio in studios in
55, didn't they? Or 56.
You did? That's right.
Yeah. That's that's an interesting
thing because Ealing comedies still, as we said, continued
until 58 with Davey, Yes, I wonder what I wonder what they
you know, I wonder what the structure was there or what was
allowed to actually happen. But anyway, yes, indeed.
But that as I say this is. Great saving stuff, weren't
they? Yes.
Yes, well done BBC, but one of the cutscenes that no no longer
exists. Sadly, quite a significant.
Seller's scene because seller said later in his view, he said,
you know, I might have got somewhere with the lady killers,
but 40 minutes were cut and a lot of me was cut with that 40
minutes. So he was a little bit better
about that. But he had a he had a speech,
small speech in the kitchen. So you know the bit where the
Major is is feeding Mrs. Wilberforce the blonnie about
his old mum. Yes, yes, yes.
Okay. Now Sellers, as Harry says to
Missus Wilberforce with me, it's my little sister.
She married a trapeze artist. Mum forced her into his act.
He did 100 feet up and no net. I told her I'd get some money to
buy a little place for her and the kiddies.
When I think of her up there swinging to and fro to and fro
and her scared of heights and all her little.
All the little kiddies watching with their little eyes holding
their breaths, just a little place on the ground.
That's all she wants. And he trails off right now.
Now, as he as he says that, he wipes a tear from his eye.
So they cut out that that little speech, right?
But if you look at the film, so you see the major, he mentions
his mother, he talks about his mother and then the next thing
you see is Sellers as Harry wiping a tear.
But it's quite a quite a clunky edit.
Yeah, I see. That sounds as well.
Wow. Oh, wow.
No, I hadn't. I hadn't picked that up at all.
I read the Lewis book 20 years ago.
Yeah, that was it. Yeah.
For reasons which I don't propose to go into now, it's a
long time ago. It's useful.
It's it's an interesting book. It's useful, but it's not 100%
reliable as we all know. Well, yes, that's the reason
why. And it just made me feel sad at
the end. I think it's the best way to
describe it. Yeah.
But yes and no. I didn't know about the the
seller's cut scene or any of the 40 minutes.
Hell's Bells, that's that would have made a big film.
It it's it's, it's tricky one because it's about as perfect a
comedy film as you can get. And as you say, it's a 3 actor.
It's perfectly balanced. Yeah, that's interesting.
And there's also the lovely little bit, since the gang
realized they're getting nowhere with it, So they decide to try
and try threats, basically, and they imply that she'll be
implicated as an accomplice. She could end up sewing mailbags
in jail. Wilberforce, I wanted to spare
you this, but I'm afraid the police are after you too.
That's right. You're as up as the rest of us,
Mom. If they pick her up, there's no
saying what they may do to her. Pick me up.
The job was planned in her house.
She carried the lolly for us. Yes, I I know I carried the the
lolly. She was ignorant of the plan.
Of course, ignorance in the sight of the law is no excuse.
Even if we swear that she didn't know what she was doing, they
never believe us. Yeah, Who'd believe anything we
said? Oh, but this is ridiculous.
I know the Superintendent. I should deny and never stand up
to it. The grilling, the rubber houses
the rest of her life saying mail bags.
Mail bags. And no one to look after the
parents. We won't let them get you, Mrs.
Wilberforce. Why not?
What's she ever done for us? If they get us, I'll tell them
she planned the job. I tell them she planned the big
one. The East Castle Street job.
Does that lovely little scene. I can't remember why.
The why is the actor Phillip Stainton as a as a police
constable, turns up at the door and they tell the gang tells her
to get rid of him. Yeah, tell him to buzz off.
Yeah, basically. And he comes to her front door
to, you know, check to see whether everything was all right
after all the unpleasantness with the Barrow boy and
everything else like that earlier on.
But she's. And not her usual cheerful self
because obviously she's being told by the gang to, you know,
get rid of him and you just say you go and tell him to buzz off
sort of thing. And so and so she actually does
eventually says go on, you know, buzz off sort of thing.
And you know Philip Stainton, you know, this completely
baffled, walks away as if to say what that's not, you know,
that's not right. As if anything was actually
going to create suspicion it was her acting suspiciously.
And it's, you know, exactly the thing.
You know, she, you know, she can't carry it off.
She's such a an honest individual and and always a
sunny disposition that that would have been very out of
character for. So in the end, the gang decide
there's not for it. They will have to dispose of
Missus Wilberforce, who's going to do the deed and.
They cut some matches and you know, so they draw lots for it
sort of thing. And they, you know, it's
wonderful to see the looks on everybody's faces when this
little, you know, these matches are going through and you know,
Marcus picks the first match and then looks almost straight at
camera with a fabulous wicked Alistair SIM white grin.
That's to say, I didn't guess it, You know, it's like that.
And every and everybody else goes around, you know, panicking
about it. The major tries to leg it.
The dosh. With the dosh and he tells Mrs.
Wilberforce that he's going to the police and he's going to
shop the gang and all will be okay.
But but but you know, make sure the gang don't.
Because essentially they've sent her upstairs to meet her death
and they they they're downstairs waiting for the major to do the
deed. And in the end they grow
impatient and they go upstairs and Mrs. Wilberforce answers the
door, or opens the door, looking almost spectral, looking almost,
yes, like she's in a this. Glow around her, isn't it?
Yeah, and she. Says the Major and I are still
talking and then Louie just kicks the door open and they see
that he's that the Major has been he's.
Legged it? Yeah, yeah.
He's up on the roof. He's got the money and one thing
leads to another. And the major well comes down
with a chimney pot. Well, where is he?
Where is the major? Is he up there still?
No, no. He he come down, I'll bring him
here. He come down with the chimney
pot. Is he hurt?
I shouldn't think you felt the thing.
The first death, the first death and then one round rebels and
basically says, oh I don't want anything to do with this.
This is it. You know, at first she was, you
know, you know, he calls her Mrs. Lopsided.
You know, that was something that Louis had said.
Louis Harvey said, you know, I don't like this lopsided old
lady and it it just stuck in one rounds, it all Mrs. Lopsided.
By the end of the film, he's calling a mum.
Yeah, I want to stay with mum. It's just the clashing cogs of 1
rounds, the remains of 1 rounds. Yeah, Marcus tries to kind of
threaten him or or or imply the threat of.
He says this is a hanging matter, but it wouldn't have
been if they didn't kill her or try to kill her, it wouldn't be
it. Had gone away for 10 years and
then come out and that's it? Absolutely.
Anyway, to just Marcus gets one round, pretends to be on one
round side, gets him to help dispose of the major's body over
a passing goods train, and then Harry they did.
They do the matchstick thing again.
Harry draws a short draw. Like you said before, he does
that, and his face is a picture. Well, fingering his collar.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He ends up not not doing
anything. He just steals the case and
makes a run for it. That's right.
The point is by this point. Mrs. Wilberforce has fallen
asleep in her chair with a with a hat half over her, and of
course one round Caesar thinks that Harry's killed her and.
Then and then goes after Harry with with a piece of forby too.
So goodbye. Goodbye, Harry.
Absolutely. And they drop him into a goods
wagon going over that same gun tree, indeed.
And then and then while Marcus and Louie are disposing of
Harry's body one round over his them talking about killing him
and he pulls his gun on them, but the safety catches on,
leaves absolutely. And.
At that point, yeah. And Louis gets rid of him.
Louis got like a Shiv. Is that what it is just?
I think so, yeah, absolutely. And he goes over the gum tree as
well. And then we have the the, the,
the, the, the fight, if you like, between Louis and Marcus.
There's that another moment. Another angry moment, then.
I seem to remember isn't there about, you know you mustn't call
me mad Oh yes is that that's you know that's that thing comes
back at that point you know of of, you know, Marcus being more
murderous than you might think and more on hinge than you might
think. Absolutely.
And you know he's calling. In this chases going on amongst
this railway, signaling gantry and whatever else, and you hear
these, this ghostly voice of the steam all around the place.
It is actually quite a sinister moment in a comedy film that I
love. It really is thinking about it,
just the scenes of them, you know, For example, holding the
majors, the dead majors ankles and then letting it drop.
If you want black comedy, this is This is as black as it gets.
And then, of course, you know, we see Marcus deciding to get
rid of Louis by, you know, trying to actually leave off
this metal ladder. And, you know, so he's so he's,
you know, so he's dropped into a train himself to get shot of
him. And it bounces back at one point
and he pushes it with his foot. And as he pushes it with his
foot, Louis Harvey, you know, shoots Marcus.
Catches him in the shoulder, I think he is, or something like
that. But that's it.
And he's gone. That's fine.
Excellent. And you think Marcus has got
away with it until the signals change.
And I remember that. I can still remember the shock
of seeing that moment when I first saw it when I was about
14-13, fourteen years old or something like that.
And I thought that is one of the best endings I've ever seen.
That was marvelous, you know, let's give it away.
You know, the signal arm comes down upon Marcus's head bang and
he drops into a he's away a wagon and he's drops into a
wagon off the bridge as well. Yes.
And they all disappear. And you say that's a wonderful
ending. It's not quite the ending.
It's not quite the ending, it's not quite the ending.
The Newmont, then, shall we say you know that the Postscript is.
Of course, Missus Wilberforce going to the station, she's
saying I've got £60,000 in the house.
What shall I do now? And of course, because she's
made a nuisance of herself to Jack Warner, you know, the the,
the eternal desk Sergeant. Yes, he is.
You know, so often, you know, she said, you know, I've heard
of these things. Could it have been a dream,
Missus Wilforce know and basically said, I think I think
you might as well just keep the money.
Well, they did say it was. Oh yeah.
They hate me on everybody's policy and so they let her go
home and she's got £60,000 at home.
She sees a passage, she sees some St. artist and she drops a
high denomination note into his case at that point and wanders
off with the music of Victorian street music boxes.
You know, it's the it's the last of a you know, she is the last
of her era, you can see that. What do you think?
She spent the money on it? But did you think she developed
a massive cocaine addiction? I think possibly new plumbing.
I think that would have been new plumbing would have been useful,
and she might have had the chimney reappointed, yes, but
that's it. That's it.
That's about the length of it. And she might have bought extra
cream cakes for her pals to come out, and she might have had that
and and have the Piano La tune more parrots.
Oh Lord, yeah, probably. And she'd have she'd have paid
someone to assassinate Frankie Howard.
Well, absolutely indeed. You know a lot of it would have
gone to the RSPCA, I'm sure indeed, no.
But as I said, it's a it's a beautiful sweet gentle ending to
what is in that little postscript there.
It's all is essentially what the blackest of comedies and I think
that now, even now, why does it still stand up after all this
time. And I think the main reason is
because it's it's funny, it's a great plot.
It's extremely well scripted. It's extremely well acted.
It's beautifully shot, so atmospheric it is.
It's got everything going for it.
There's a few interpretations of this film over the years by
critics and people like that. Among those interpretations, I
think he's a film critic. Philip Kemp suggested that some,
perhaps Mrs. Wilberforce, has fallen asleep with an airshot of
a radio serial and conjured up the gang from the depths of her
psyche. Yeah, but that is actually
already hinted at in the plot that's already been mentioned.
You know, is it possible that you dreamed it and that that's
right at the beginning of the the thing?
You know, when she's actually talking about, you know, some
some heist or something that she thinks she has information on?
And of course she has been falling asleep listening to the
radio on this, you know, I think that that's, you know, so
that's, you know, he has a point most definitely.
But I don't believe it's the case.
I think these people are as real as you and I.
Well, there's people that how could how could they not be?
Who could dream up Professor Marcus?
You know, it's been suggested that the clustered old house,
standing alone at the end of a cul-de-sac overlooking railway
yards, symbolizes decrepit England waiting to collapse.
Correct. I'll go with that.
That's most definitely the case. As I said, you know, the, the
American take upon what, you know, this was the, the country
that should have been that apparently won the war and it
was on its face in 55. You know, you know, it was in,
you know, a few years later and you know, Harold Macmillan would
have been saying things like you never had it so good.
Yeah, but you know, rationing had just been finished.
You know, the railways had just been nationalized.
The, you know, the coal mines had just been nationalized.
The NCB had come in and all of these things to try and mend,
you know, decades of damage. It's that point.
It's that point where you've got you've got the brash illmanned,
if you like, New Elizabethans looking horns with the old order
and the old order with its dying Victorian mores.
Because after a year, less than a year after this film comes
out, you've got Suez. And after that, and Alexander
Mckendrick apparently saw the innocence as represented by Mrs.
Wilberforce, as a dangerously destructive social force rather
than a benign and admirable one. Wow.
So the new yes, in that respect, the New Elizabethans.
Did they get it right? It's a good question.
I don't like that. And to be yes, the point is yes,
Victorian values. It all depends on how you define
that. You know, if you're talking
about, you know, moral rectitude and stuff like that, then all
very well and good. You know, the Victorian work
ethic. All very well and good.
But you know, the constraints of such times, you know, do not sit
easily, certainly with, you know, after two world wars.
You know, life had become cynical.
People have become cynical. Rock and rolls just.
Well, yeah, absolutely. 1955 was rock around the clock, wasn't
it? There it is.
You know Rocket 88 had already been released, you know and you
know the the the American brashness was coming in.
Yes and yeah, absolutely. If you if you've got this this
chintzy falling down place. Yeah, everybody knows that these
these times are coming to an end.
But they looked at, you know, in the, in the, in the case of Mrs.
Wilberforce gently, Mckendrick may have said that, you know,
she is a destructive force, but she wins.
Yeah, she wins this time. She wins this time.
Yeah, this time the old order wins, but not for much longer
really. No, no, no, no.
Now there's a couple of other just quick things I wanted to
say before we wrap up, because I'm sure you know about the
Peter Sellers cast recording. Very much so, Yes indeed.
That appeared on the Arena documentary first, the first
time I heard that, Yes. Well, he does all of the.
Where he does all the various voices of the entire cast.
Well, I'm trying to remember what was the reason he gave it
to. Yeah, it was for cast members,
didn't he? It was, it was at the rap party
if they called. Yeah, they call them rap parties
back then. I don't suppose they have no
idea. Possibly something like that he
had made. I believe it was cassettes, but
I well, I would. Know it's real small, real to
real taste. Yeah, yeah.
Compact Cassette came in the early 60s and 64 of course, so
he but he was essentially sellers doing all the cast and
certain members of the crew including Mckendrick, and I
believe he was helped in this in terms of the script, if there
was a script helped by Larry Stevens.
Indeed, yes. I read that in the book
recently. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Julie's Julie Warren's book,
which, yeah, I read that on holiday recently.
Brilliant, great book. Julie's book about Larry
Stevens. It's all in the mind.
Get it now. And yeah, so he, he very nice
and very nice of him. I think, you know gave but but
then you could say, I suppose it was a bit of a showreel for him
in a sense. It was sort of this is what I
can do, you know. Yeah.
It wasn't necessarily a selfless gesture.
No, not at all. For those who actually don't
already know, who haven't listened to the Goon show this
week and all that sort of thing you know I I seem remember is in
doing is it's all part of the plan.
My plan you know is the the the Marcus thing and then is I I
want to stay with mum. I want to stay with mum.
You know, it's like that the
the, the, you know the. The Danny Green one, he actually
just, you know, does that's a very goonish thing, putting the
emphasis on a different word. And he does that beautifully on
point. I hate little old ladies.
Once again, Ealing Studios, who gave you such great successes as
The Cool Seas, starring Mario Lanza, The Night My Ship Died of
Shame? Above us, The Joneses Passport
to gold is green, The man in the right Boots.
Now I'll bring you their latest hilarious comedy, The Lady
Killers. Adapted from tomorrow's new
Yesterday, the world surprise winning novel by Otto Miller,
The Lady Killers tells of a ruthless gang of criminals
headed by Alec Guinness CBE, The man of 1000 faces.
Remember Fagin? He plays Professor Marcus, the
cool, cunning, calculating leader Herbert Blonde, direct
from his great successors. Anna in The King of Siam plays
Louis. The suave continental crook
whose villainous past combines well with that of Major Courtney
and masterpiece of under. Playing by Thistle Parker of
this division fame. His partner in death is Peter
Sellers of Radios White Poons. Next in the scintillating array
of stars comes Danny Green as one round the punch drunk actor
boxer. With him it's born Buck and a
hideous sense of Humor and introducing Katie Johnson as
Missus Wilberforce, the lovely little old landlady.
So in the end, captivates the cold hearts of the lady killer.
And we know we can trust her to do it right if she don't even
know what she's doing. I tell you, I hate little old
ladies. I want it settled here and now.
No one is in the responsible way.
Another clap, My clap. Do you agree, Major?
Well, I I'm with you, Professor. After all, it is £12,000 all
round. One round I'm stolen with more.
I'm staying with Ma. I'm staying with Ma or this.
Plus Frankie hard bringing drama to the screen as the naughty
Barrow boy. So I oh, I'll, I'll, oh, ah, oh,
ah. It was named #13 on the BFI
Greatest British Films of all Time.
Right. I knew it was doing well as far
as the comedy was concerned. I didn't know it was #13 on the
BFI list. Wow, I did.
I didn't make a note of what it was sandwiched between.
I think it was before Saturday night and Sunday morning, but I
can't remember what was above it, to be honest.
Herbert Long was the last living member of the cast, of course.
Indeed. Yeah, that's right, 20/12/2012
when he passed. Yeah, yeah.
When he passed. As we said earlier, Katie
Johnson won a BAFTA. The screenplay was nominated for
an Oscar and didn't win for a time.
The film was banned from prison screenings because there'd been
an attempt at a copycat heist. So they would have seen it as
again getting going back to wrong arm of the law as an
instructional film shown in prison.
And I just want to very briefly, I'm not going to talk about it
at all apart from the fact that I love the Coen brothers, but
the Coen brothers did a remake in 2004 with Tom Cruise, Tom
Cruise, Tom Hanks and it was pretty much a flop failure.
I've not seen it, so I can't really speak for.
It this is, this is the nuisance of it.
When you've seen something which you believe to be perfect, you
don't want to sully it by seeing something which might not be.
And because of that very reason, I've avoided it.
Yeah, yeah, I saw the reviews and I've heard other people say
exactly the same. I've not watched it.
Whether I will or not is a moot point.
I'd have to I'd. Have to.
I'd have to have a bottle of Pinot Grigio one night to
actually, you know, sit through it if I really must.
But I'm sure there's better things that I can enjoy.
There's a whole host of better Coen brothers films I'm sure,
that start with Blood Simple and work on from that.
Graham, I I just want to say thank you so much for because
because I appreciate you. You're only running on 40% at
the moment. It's been a pleasure to talk
about it. I never, you know, I don't often
get the chance to do such things but when I do I leap at them
with you know with both hands and dear nose and throat.
It's it's it's been great fun. Thank you ever.
So thank you. Thank you.
And at the end of the year, my intention is I've already talked
about it on social media. I will be, we will be running
down a list of this listeners, top 20 Sellers films, Peter
Sellers films and the list is coming along very well already.
And I'm not going to, I mean, it's not giving anything, not
giving anything to a way to say that this film features quite
highly so far people's lists, the actual top 20.
So, and if you haven't seen it, what do you listen to this for?
Watch it. It's, you know, it's timeless,
is all I'll say. It's a glorious film.
It is.