Over the hill Spike Milligan script Terrence Alan Milligan.
That's his real name. Here's Alan Milligan.
Over-the-hill comic, 873 oap has the reticulate.
This hiatus hernia and piles. Take three calendars, tablets a
day and several glycerin suppository.
No, media success, since the Goon show can Not stand
Blackadder, he is desperate for his own Series.
Has tried many ways to get back into the BBC.
Hello and welcome to goon pot. It's bit of a lengthy
conversation. This week, I'm joined by a
fellow podcaster and someone whose voice has been aware of
for over 10 years. It's meds from the waffle on
podcast, which is a film and TV podcast, which has been going
for Many, many, many, many, many years, and podcast, which I've
been a fan of for God knows how long and meds came on to talk
about Spike and a particular documentary.
But to be honest with you, the moment he joined me, we started
talking about anything and everything music films TV
actors, all sorts. And so it was a bit difficult to
know where exactly to drop into the conversation for the
purposes of this podcast. It's join the conversation,
where, where we've been talking me and meds been talking about
the film Mona, Lisa, and which obviously led to us talking
about the actor. Michael Caine.
What? What's your favorite cane film
of all time? Oh, now that's difficult in it
because I love get car. Mmm, me too.
You know what? I'm gonna go man, who would be
king? That's probably my second.
Yeah.
So, what's your, what's your, what's your favorite?
It's it's got a I've become fonder and fonder of it over the
years. Through reach through
re-watching, it, even though. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Absolutely, yes. It's like, I've been with that.
I do some I'll give you if you too many said water.
I would, I know somebody a grown man window, very intelligent
grown, man, who watched loose had.
Never seen it before and was fooled, but I'm really.
Yeah. And I'm not going to spark that
when he wasn't seen him, but he was fooled.
Yeah, up until probably up until about two thirds of the way
through. And then he I think he tweaked,
you know, the you know what, though, that's not a bad thing
because it means he was totally engrossed in the film, you know,
it's like there's nothing wrong with that, that's brilliant
because the fact that it is Enjoyed that film more than
than, you know. Also, you know what was going
on? Somebody's I know what's going
on, because if I have such a irritating habit of, when I was
younger, I had my Bible was halliwell's film guy and I
adored it was no, you can't get them anymore, Mannix amount of
films but I would, I would go through the book and I would
underline everything. I'd starve everything and I'd
make notes of everything. That's why my knowledge of film
is really that button or knowledge of generally anything
else and you know he's shit. But when it comes to films, I
know everything and anything about only because I adored that
book. And so nowadays, obviously
you've got like Wikipedia and you got all that kind of stuff
which is a big chain. But I end up over analyzing and
looking everything whilst I'm watching the film.
I think it is a bit annoying but so when a film because they do
nothing about a bit like usual suspects, let's let's say that
or even six cents, right? Yeah.
I I didn't get, I sat in the cinema and I did not I didn't
get it at all. Be the film and live the very
end you know the Revelation in six cents and you go oh man and
then you think I can't wait to re-watch that again cousin.
Look out. So you get it, you're
guaranteed, you're going to have two films that two different
films and Usual Suspects that bloom it that just blew me away
when he suddenly starts walking normally and they're going.
Unfortunately I don't feel like I know you sure that bad we
can't talk about anymore. Yeah.
I don't feel like I want to
watch this bit like my family's in it.
Yeah, I used to love. I used to love like two little
boys and really don't just get a bit to sleuth, by the way.
What I'm sure, you know, this, of course, what's the connection
between sleuth and The Smiths? Slough from The Smiths, the
band. Yeah.
I'mi'm a, I hate the smell of the oh, no, I despise us.
Okay, well, I appreciate the voting.
Yeah, you know, I appreciate the lion but it just sends very good
got, and you can tell us. And then I'll tell you something
about, you know, one of their biggest hits This Charming, Man.
The song This Charming, Man. Yeah, lifts, a quote from
Laurence Olivier directly, out of sleuth.
Oh, in sleuth, he Is he calls Michael Caine's character a
jumped-up. Pantry boy, who never knew his
place. Oh, okay, that's good.
All yeah, that's good on. Morrissey lifts at wholesale and
inserts it into the lyrics of This Charming, Man, jumped a
pantry boy who doesn't know his place.
I always on a stag, do in Sheffield good few years ago for
me My is legit Brisbane and we was excited.
And we had this conversation about me because he's a man,
he's a massive music, not, he knows everything and anything
about music, you know, it he's about a year and a half younger
than me, but he still has the energy of stuff.
We were like mid-twenties, like 20s.
And he, he said, I love the Smiths and and we had this big
old debate about the pros and cons of the Smiths and I was
just going up and visible, you know, bloating or something.
And we went to a no, this is a Sheffield and we went to a
nightclub I am not joking you. We walked in and every single
person in that club was wearing Morrissey masks and I looked and
I was like what the hell's going on and they were giving out
these Morrissey faces because it was marvellously night and no
one knew and it was like, yeah, this someone's taking the piss.
Well, there's not, I was funny enough because we'd had some
beers. I was dancing around like a,
like, an idiot with some lupins, you know, do you know that story
and we'll listen that we've got to start the show in a minute?
If that story years ago Morrissey was due to play in
London somewhere and he you know that done if you know this about
Morrissey but he can be a bit of a temperamental burger and he
decided I think somebody within 20 miles of the venue had been
eating a ham sandwich in my receipt heard about it so he
refused to turn up on stage. He refused to know I'm
exaggerating but for some reason for some reason he decided he
wasn't going to perform and There was some celebrities in
the audience that night there was, there was Jonathan Ross,
and his very good friend, Russell Brand, and they're very
good friend, David Williams and they decided she's because the
audience were going crazy angry because my receiver gonna
perform. So those three decided to get up
on stage and try to Entertain, Entertain the crowd.
Yeah, let's just say bottles of warm piss, came their way quite
quickly. No, I'm a.
I am a bit of a fan of Jonathan. Ross, I must admit because I
come from the The the have known him from the incredibly strange
and showing you. It is you know, and and he was
still one of the best film reviewers and I think he's
wasted not doing film reviews on.
So you that great. And I've recently started
watching his program. He did for think it was channel
for going by and place. He's at, it's absolutely
brilliant. You see the proper cider.
Jonathan Ross, the warm side of him, the toy collector, the
Comic Collector, you know. But I cannot stand, David
Williams. Aye, he's human James Corden,
him. James called anomalous.
If that Talent, that's my hell. That is Germany.
I couldn't imagine anything worse than the both of all of
them are got faces, you want a slat year.
And also I think that all obviously done a side that just
pretty untalented people with great representation but there
you go. You go.
That's quite you know some people won't agree.
Yes. We'd be on that.
I'm fair, you know yes I hope I hope that their lawyers.
Don't listen to this podcast. I don't care.
I got no. But anyway, listen we've been
yakking. We've been yeah.
And this is going pod. Hello, and welcome.
If anyone is listening to this, for the first time you put me
not listening anymore. But if anyone is for the first
time, this is called cars where we talk about anything that has
even even a passing goon connection.
So that would include the Life of Brian film for example,
because spikes and yeah, out half a minute.
And as you can hear I've been talking to to a guest who Cards
on the table time here. And I started, listen to
podcasts relatives. I've said this before in the
podcast, I had started listen to podcast relatively early on sort
of late late notes. I guess.
Sort of 2008-2009 things like answer me this callings in
heroin podcast. And at the Trap, the goodies
podcast, and I discovered early on a podcast called waffle on
Oh, really did. And and I think I'm pretty sure
it was because I was searching, you know, hey search for topics
in that. Oh yeah.
In the day and I'm searching for anything, or any podcast about
Steptoe and Son, don't ask me why I was just, I just remember
searching for Steptoe and son and was only 11 podcast that
came up, and it was Waffle on. So, I listened to that because
you did an episode. So, sorry, I'm talking today to
one of the two hosts of waffle on meds, so welcome.
The podcast. Thank you very much pleasure to
be here. And I better in Waffle on has
been going for 12. 13 years is it?
Yeah, we started in 2000. 2004 2008 2009.
We've actually deleted the very first episode because the first
episode was when Patrick mcgoohan passed away.
And so we did, we did a couple of tests as an M.
That was the first one that was available to download and it
dawned on me at all. What?
Well, the start someone in Doyle.
Well, I thought yeah. Another all that.
Don't that don't work. But yeah, we've been pretty
consistent every month. We had a time where we might
skip a month because we both on holiday but yeah.
We've been doing it since then. It seems to have gone really
quick, I don't know if you find this as well, we've your Park
and because you specialize in anything to do with the, the
Goon Show members of the goons and production, all that kind of
stuff that obviously, you're going to have Dedicated
listeners where, you know, they're going to tune in because
they adore the people involved me.
Yeah. And they adore you your
beautiful velvet velvet, you know, upside down tones.
But we were doing the TV shows we had really, you know, because
obviously they weren't many podcasts about.
So we had good really good listener ships.
I mean, we're kind of like in the top 10.
Hmm. I teamed iTunes charts, you
know, the TV and films and then literally all and Sundry of
Famous people come along and don't get me wrong because I'm a
big fan of the, some podcasts I list some really big fan of Al
Murray is one movies History Podcast, and I do like Gage
McFadden's podcast, a bad start because I like Star Trek her but
then suddenly all these famous people come along and literally
it's so hot. It, you know, we don't get
registered anything but the one thing we always said we
podcasting, I don't know if you feel like this, is that we do
because we absolutely adore subject, we did we tend to do
films now and we we do 1973 this year because we own 50 this
year, so it's cow. So every, every episode this
year, this month, sorry, in the he's dedicated i-73 but we do
because we absolutely adore talking about the subject
matters. We may not be factually right
all the time. The idea is that you over least
overhearing us in a pub talking about a subject, you know.
And and I think that's what podcasting should be about.
Not not 100. You know, not fantastic.
Over-the-top Productions and and all That kind of stuff.
But just talking about some of your passion about and that's
what I love your podcast. I was listening to one the other
day about because I checked I still work at the same company
but I changed jobs and loving more kind of like managerial
style. So I used to listen to podcasts
all the time walking around the place we are missing.
So now I have to rely on listening to in the car.
So I kind of met my half hour journey into 40 minutes, but I
absolutely love your podcast, but I was so enthralled about
your Peter Sellers one. That was on, I'm sorry, I can't
remember your guests. I am.
But the stuff I was just stuff. I was learning.
I thought I knew a lot about IBS Ella's, I didn't know anything.
I didn't know anything, and I was like when I got home because
I listened in the morning, at least, it has come back home.
I thought, you know, I wanna watch, I wanna watch, I was, you
know, coming to film something Fox, after the fox, after the
facts, which I adored in, I was younger, great film, and I
thought I'm going to watch it. And I watched it and it's
because I've been listening to you and your guests.
Yeah, talking passionately. Tell me about Peter Sellers.
And it was, it was just brilliant and I thought you had,
this is why I love podcast wasn't.
So this is my love. Listen to people who love their
subjects, you know. Yeah.
Doesn't that film have the best ending?
Oh God. Yeah.
And also best thing for hell. Yeah.
Holly's that that and The Taking of Pelham, One, Two, Three.
That's a great idea. Yeah, the original yeah, thank
you very much. But very honored to have you on
today because as I say, One of my early podcast Heroes and and
and I made contact and you said you'd be delighted to come on
and to take in a while. Yeah, it has.
Yeah. Real life and all that sort of
thing. Absolutely.
You decided to come on or you suggested coming on to talk
about something to do with Spike Milligan and yeah.
So as we're recording this, which is what first week in May
2012, Three. It's is 90 years this week,
since the teenage Terrence Alan Milligan, with his with, his
younger, brother Desmond, and his parents, sailed on a
second-class ticket or tickets from Bombay, for a new life in
the Old Country. And this was an England that
young Terence had never been to a node only ever experienced
through books or or family story.
And his first glimpse of England through fog was distinctly
underwhelming and a real shock to the system after a life of
relative privilege in India. And Terrence of course was in
time to become known as Spike and went on to become one of the
greatest and most influential creators of comedy in this
country, certainly in the 20th century.
Thank you degree. So so meds.
What's your what's your history with Spike?
Once you're grown up, you can't avoid Avoid them are age.
You cannot have grown up in this country without be bad and
running into spike in some fashion.
So what's your history with them?
Well, this is the thing you say, it's like we were talking back
and forwards of what for me to talk about I was quite Keen, not
to really go into great detail about any of the, the main cast
because I know that people know, a lot more that more bad than I
do. And frankly, I don't know an
awful lot because my introduction to spike.
Came through Monty Python. I've been dedicated Monty Python
fan, since probably the age, everything seems to leave me.
Everything seems to come about when I was die, turned 1679.
I don't know what he is, where he is, because that's where
everything, that my memories really kick in.
But I became a massive fan of Doctor Who then and Monty Python
was always on our TV and mean, mom and dad said, oh, if you
really like Monty Python, you realize that the stuff that we
used to like and of course that's somewhere.
Like the kiss of death, when I say that, you know, we know that
and they started talking about may actually was Peter Sellers.
They talked about. Now obviously the Pink Panther
films is well. I knew Peter Sellers from.
Yeah, but they're not because I think when you look at early
early pictures of peda, he's don't mean this to be
disparaging, but he doesn't look anything like, it does later on
because he's quite a chubby kid, but it should be like, he
doesn't, he doesn't look anything remarkable.
And then suddenly like towards the end of the goons is quite
chiseled and quite, you know, we're going to be looking.
So I didn't really recommend that I didn't recognize them
all, but I went to Birmingham public library.
Now, there's just the main one that was in the center of town
and you could hire records from there.
And I was fascinated by the fact, I could hide these
records. And I hired The Best of Beauty.
So not the best of British comedy, and the Goon show was on
it. And it was only about Out two
tracks because the other stuff was beyond our can ya Tony
Hancock, you know, is a compilation in my, even been
like the best of BBC comedy or something like that because I
remember taping it and I just afraid you.
So it was actually through Monty Python and then listening to
spike on on these, these records.
And then seeing never really saw, never really saw you was
because the Q series was a little bit beyond me because the
When he was shown obviously and I would not have been up that
that time was then seen Spike on TV shows like wogan an aspirin
company and Russell hearty course.
And all these things and I suddenly thought this man is who
this documented to be talked about in a bit but he looks
credibly old. I thought I did how old is this
guy? Because he's talking as if he's
about 20, 22 years old, you know, you he's talking and he's
got the enthusiasm and a real Naughty twinkle in his eye
because if he's like 28 years old but he looks like he's about
80. Hmm.
And then I recognized him life and Brian oh no.
And then suddenly I started buying stuff.
The goons are like getting the tapes and other cities.
But again a types that were available that you could buy
from HMV and stuff and really enjoying them and then going to
more like Kenneth Williams stuff and all those kind of things.
And I had, I could see. And fair play to python.
They always are Knowledge spike in there but, you know, the why
do they never? They never hit that.
They never hit it. And they've always talked owner
and they really was happy when he when he was on holiday in
Tunisia and, you know, agreed to do the Cameo, which was meant to
be in longer, but he got bored of the film, and I just walked
off and that's the reason why he's only in that bit because he
got bored and just so I'm bored, I'm walking up, you know.
Let us pray. Yay.
To us like the seeds of the grave.
I've also like, like many of us. I think I'm going to, I don't
mean is to seyn like is glorifying the horrors of War,
but I've always been very fascinated in shell shock
victims and the stuff. What happens when people suffer
from, from PTSD and all that? And when I find Spy Kids had
gone through such a terrible thing.
We need was in the war I kind of find it more interesting.
Student because this I don't think.
Somebody says, any stock eventually a whole album of you
says it about, you know, the difference between genius and
the Halo of things I can make here.
You know, we probably wouldn't have had the spike that we know
if the what happened to him hadn't happened to I think we
would have had a really good jazz Trumpeter.
I've been with I think we would have seen that.
I think I maybe even a painter, I could see that but I don't hit
me with that at the comedy because Darkness does bring you
know to cure Darkness. A lot of time is in comedy.
And as I got more fascinating and then started reading his
stuff, you know, and and and I find I find his stuff like his
poetry, especially dark. Poetry really enjoy.
I don't have any favorite ones, but I just find that really
interesting it and the more I knew it, the more I got older,
the more I kind of didn't I don't want to say I didn't like
him because that would be wrong because I really do but there
was something that unnerved me about him and this documentary
actually kind of really kind of solved.
A lot of the Them the thoughts I had about him because I'd known
stories of what Peter Sellers had said.
And I mean, and and bless bless how he seek him.
You know, I don't think how could anybody say you can say
it. But it's concise some bad stuff
about Peter Sellers because he was a lousy father.
Wasn't a particularly nice person but a comedy genius.
You can't say anything bad about how he so you come at all.
You know, you can't the same be Marco benteen, really?
But we Spike, there was something that was quite
unnerving and I think they mention it in His documentary
where even his own daughter says, you know, there's just
times when you didn't know, you know, why he was going to be
like if you didn't get the holics to him, you know, if you
did there's no warnings that week then he would be in a
terrible mood. But this what's great about this
documentary was kind of like help me out from when I from
falling in love with him in the late 70s.
Is you find out the reason why he was like he was and I just
think it's such a beautifully made thing but and to answer
your answer your question, Now waffled on now.
It was purely food poison. He was Full Monty Python, okay?
So what we're talking about today is well, everything
everything, but let me put it in a bit of context so last year
despite Millions family opened his archive to selected fans and
friends. Hmm.
And thus, we got on Sky arts in December last year.
The 75-minute documentary Spike Milligan, the Unseen archive and
and this documentary took us on a journey through as archive,
which includes 14 photo albums. 79 box, files, 48 boxes of film.
I believe 244 reel-to-reel tapes and we see some some of the
labels. On some of those real Trail take
boxes. And that means sort of salivate
over those. There's this recordings of the
Goon show. There's there's all sorts of
there's unpublished and unperformed, novels and scripts
from his later years, there's a heap of scrap books.
And, and one of the things that we learn from this film is that
Spike was a meticulous archivist, and, and chronicler
of his own history because there's there's at least eight.
Eight. I counted eight leather.
Bound. Volumes of Milligan family
history. Oh yeah.
What was that going back from eighteen eighteen ninety or
something? Somebody 1883 or something?
Yeah. And all these detailed
scrapbooks and albums and albums that outlining his wartime
experiences that he's put together with photos and
hand-drawn maps. And, oh, that's beautiful.
That is and there's, there's I mean, we're going to touch on
all these of course, but doesn't bark box files with letters.
As correspondents and and just random memories that, he's
written down a Bits of Paper and put in these box files because
in one in one of these there's a there's an envelope containing,
a small child's toy. I'll see that which that's
Joanna. Lumley.
Opens it up, isn't it? Yeah, so he discovered this
small toy, which was one of his children's toys, which had
discovered long after dead. Put away such things in grown
up, I guess. And and he put it in an envelope
and he wrote on the envelope, you know, the discovered it in,
you know, in a garage or something and he said it reduced
him to tears. It's I think it's he finds it in
the overgrown Garden of that house, which is the first house
that I bought. Yes.
And he go. You must just, you must have
just kept. It was just owned it because I
dog moved away to a different place was wearing any, he went
back there, which is searching for memories, isn't it?
Psychologically and to find that, you know, the realization
of, you know, he's children and that's that comes out a cost
quite a bit through this documentary of how he regrets
his I think he regrets his Mental Illness but he can't help
that. So he's being a bit hard on
himself. Now whether some of it was his
own, his own ignorance, maybe it could well be, but the way that
he's it's Winnie looks at old photographs of his children and
it's not his fault. Because he, you know, he's wife
left him and I can kind of understand why but he's the one
who know she says, no, you look after them, you've got the
money, which is so you have to question her motives little bit
on her, but how he takes? It takes a man.
But, they look so unhappy. I think I just like normal kids
are done when I had to photograph taken, but he sees
something in those eyes and that must have demos been
heart-wrenching for him to look back and think, I think we all
do. I mean to say, I don't know you
have children or anything, but it's my daughter's coming up to
14 this year. And I know it's a Trope to say
because loads of people have said it how time goes so quickly
but it really doesn't and I don't have fact that she will
I'm sitting in my office here that I've got photograph albums.
Now that I'm doing scrapbooks about load of scrap books to
left in me and I've gotten printed all these photos out
that we've had on phones. We've had on this because you
know when we were younger you and and I'm sure a lot of your
listeners will have done this as well.
You know, we have photo albums and you take some photos and you
never knew what was going to Matt from the development thing,
you know, and then, but these days you could take about eight
pictures of the one thing and it stay on your phone and no one
gives a shit about it. And then I thought to myself and
it dawned on me and I was watching these, especially not,
you were saying all these albums that guy's the archives that
he's kept yourself how important it is for you to put them in.
Because, you know, we've all got our parents is, you know,
photograph arms, that grandparents photograph albums
and they mean something to us because you could look back
because they're not here for Us to for them to tell us those
stories. And this whole house is Steven's
house and Gardens in. Finchley is a pure record of
comedy and also a man's life that we're never going to meet.
We're never going to know him. But through this and I
understand the fact that was white.
So it would they only open it for friends and family because
you don't want all in bloody sundry going in there, but how
important it is to have this archives?
And that's like we've marked with Marco piling blessing who
sadly lost. He's lost his wife yesterday,
which is Just so sad with you hadn't.
Yeah. And but he's always, I adore,
he's diving, he's, you know, and I hope he brings another one out
because it's a part of his life, you know, and he's part of
spikes life and it's so important to have these
treasures and that little toy, you know, that this little toy
and I wondered what it was going to be, and I think it's like, is
he like a little horse and carriage or something?
Incredible, isn't it? And you think any you think
these are memories that? I just so you know shooting back
to him and the fact that he put it in an envelope boat on the
envelope. And when Joanna Lumley opens
that envelope will be even, she gets stoked by, you know, it's
amazing. Yeah.
Yeah, you mentioned Diaries. We know where we have all read
the Kenneth Williams diaries. Oh, and ya know, that they
entail. Now, as far as I know Spike
didn't keep a diary, but if he had regularly to the extent that
Williams did, could you imagine the spike Milligan Diaries being
published at what fireworks, they'd sit off, you know, I I
mean, if they would be absolutely amazing, wouldn't I?
I mean it's like I've just started really reading the Alan
Rickman Diaries literally today. I did just, before we talked, I
thought I'm going to just sit down and chill out for a bit and
and because I'd heard that he's he can be quite cutting and he's
in his diary, you know, and I think that's the everyone
forgets that a diary is basically your feelings on that
day but necessarily what you're going to feel like tomorrow, you
know, and Kenneth Williams one knees.
It's quite what it again, that's another website in one because
this isn't, this is a comedy genius, who simply couldn't
couldn't allow himself to be guy, you know, he couldn't allow
himself to just enjoy his life, even simple things like, you
know, cooking. He, you know, he kept everything
under that she's literally cellophane on his cooker and and
all that, and it's such a sad thing.
So I think spikes would be possibly Really depressing but
really depressing, you know, because we know him for in again
going back to this documentary, you know, and I'm sure it's been
reported before but we enjoy his comedy.
We enjoy the city in this of the goons.
The absurdity of it all the silly voices in it when you're
younger and you're thirsty the goons.
You don't really listen to The Comedy.
You didn't to the silly voices, you know?
And you try and work out who's apart from Seeker, you know.
It's so you come. Yeah, you can tell you can tell
in my mind off but you know Ulysses for the city Voices.
But then when you realize how much he killed him right in the
thing, you know and how happy was to get it recorded and and
that was the highlight of his day and then he knew that he'd
have to start again on the Monday and then be an absolute
hell for that week. You know, you can almost imagine
he's divers, just being pretty, pretty sad, really, but again,
who wouldn't want to eat it? Now, if you ever do beat it, be
sitting a lot of scores with people who he perceived as
having wronged him that day or you know, someone look, To make
it funny. Well that was your own
unfortunate. That's the problem with manic
depressive illness, isn't it? Where, you know everybody and
also you clearly he suffer from from severe anxiety which is,
you know, equally as upsetting where the fact that he would
have mother gives her nephew's with Peter Sellers, who let's
face it. You know, had him section.
I can imagine, I'd love to read what he thought of him, I love
to read that, that'd be brilliant, you know, so this
documentary has got mmm, it's got the invariably.
We it's got the, the Talking Heads, the, the celebrity
friends and vans. Thankfully, thankfully done done
really well that. There they are.
Actually there, and they are actually opening books.
This is a treasure trove This is the private property of Spike
Milligan. Take corded actually system,
spikes original recordings of the king shows, some, that's the
mighty Wurlitzer, the person who shines for me.
And he sees I think personally the, in his luck because as you
obviously, you know, you've talked about the, the, the play
Spike. But you can tell that he, he
picks, I think he picks up the tape in his life, does he?
Looks at something and he just However, whether he'd seen you
before and he was already prepared, maybe it's TV, then
the day, but he reels off a load of information just by looking
at this one couple of words and I thought.
Yeah, you know, you know, any of you wrote a play about spy but
you know what you're talking about.
Any actually, you know, really does look like as you know,
there's some of our money on that one, you know?
But they're Lisa actually they're not talking about that
one thing I can't stand about these documentaries, you get a
lot of the time. He's gonna do the Talking Heads
where they clearly just in a studio and some of them have
been I told to say something they've been shown a clip of
something and say, yeah. But say something wacky about
it, you know? And it's like, ah, God returned,
you watch that when you were, you know, when you were young.
Yeah. I mean, the only one, the only
ones that have been doing some really good ones recently.
I don't know if you've been watching him as been on Channel
5 where they did one foot in the grave.
Oh yeah. That yeah.
And what and let's face it the person you want to want to hear
talking about one foot in the grave apart from The Wire is
Richard Wilson. Yeah and Richard Wilson is are
talking about All the way through.
And so is Angus Deaton. You know, anything, that's how
you do it. You know, you don't just have
someone who is on Big Brother 10 years ago.
So, you know, term and said, oh yes, I swipe Milligan.
Yes, he was. Mmm, and we, you know, real
something off at least with these documents that actually in
this Haze, which isn't a gorgeous house as well.
So, it is beautiful beautiful anyway, that I mean, was that do
you know for that it was owned by the family or that was given
to the family or something? I'm not quite sure if that would
be inspect expensive in church. Ali.
I had Jane Milligan on plus year.
Hmm, the show. And I've had elmarie, by the
way, have you? Yeah.
And I've got so many of your episodes to get food and, and
David Quantic, who's also turns up in this documentary.
He'd I'm a big fan of David Infante.
I was a massive, the thick of it fan.
So he was an early supporter of this podcast, actually, in this,
he noticed the Twitter account early on and mmmm and I think he
tweeted something like I'm very heartened to see that there's a
podcast out there which is what about the Goon show or something
like that. And I contacted him and he came
on but anyway, but now I speak to Jane last year quite early on
last year. And I think she was in the
process of putting this archive together and sorting it out and
I should have asked more about that but more about it, but I
didn't at the time. Think about Ian Hislop, which
intrigues me is that I've interviewed, I'm not interviewed
him, but I've had his writing partner Nick Newman.
Ya sure. Hmmm.
Who lovely guy neck? Yeah.
And Nick kind of intimated that he did.
He didn't say that in didn't like Spike prior to writing the
play about Spike, but he said he didn't say he was indifferent,
he wasn't even indifferent towards by, but maybe he was a
little bit lukewarm about Spike Milligan before he actually sat
down and started researching it spikes life for the Horizon, for
the purposes of writing the play and listening to the gun show
and yeah, and that sort of thing and then he Really had a real
damascene conversion I suppose. Yeah.
And that kind of ties in. I had Lily barf on.
As well last year and look at you name-dropping.
Oh and clang. Sorry Louis knows Ian and some
and told a story about years ago being at a charity lunch
somewhere. Yeah being sat next to spike or
bit sets at the same same table as Spike or something like that.
I'm kind of hoping murder and Ian Hislop kind of walked up
behind Louis. It sort of whispered in these
are all bad luck bath. You know, he's he's hard work,
cutting thinking of something like that.
Yeah. So that would suggest that
Hislop was a bit you know a little bit ambivalent about
Milligan before. Hmm.
The and and that he's and he's found out so much about his life
and listen to the Goon show and being able to appreciate the
genius of the man. I think that's I think that's
probably got an awful lot to do with his journalistic background
as well. Especially we provide your eye
coming from Peter Cooks. Of course, you know Lee, no
pants at the end of the day. That I think he's lobbies very
much and it's it's become a recurring joke.
Now on, have I got news for you which is, I still like if I got
news for you to be here mr. Times, but I still enjoy it, but
he kind of like he's very indifferent on a lot of things.
And I get the impression with him.
That is soon as he gets as you said there, you can see that as
soon as he gets into something and understands it IE shows a
lot more interest I think when he doesn't understand it, or
it's beyond him, shall we say? Yeah I think there's definitely
a sort of like well why do I need to know you know and he's
been a lot like that yet you know you questioned him on
politics or anything to do with satire.
You know you're going to get you're going to get a lot of
information from him but I'm glad that you kind of got
enthusiastic about it. You know, you seem very
enthusiastic on this on this documentary and I I don't think
they would have I could I could imagine the family being quite
choosy who they invited to do this documentary.
I kind of magic. If someone was a bit but it
often but in absolutely the family are very fiercely
protective and they've obviously chosen carefully.
Yeah, they invited to visit this archive but the whole
documentary. I was quite pleased to see that.
It wasn't a hagiography. Is that word?
Yeah. Wasn't because there's there's a
sequence where two of his daughters are interviewed Jane,
of course, and and Seeley. Yes, and Seeley very much Each
comes across as very speaks as she finds kind of person.
Yeah. And I like that and she and she
said that she was very open. She was very against what she
called the racist element of her, some of her father's work.
And she and she said, I want to say to Jane sometimes.
Let's burn the lot. Yeah, I got that.
I get when I first watched it, I got angry about that.
And when I watched it again, last night, I got angry about
that you. I really did.
Yeah, I really do. I really get angry about that
because I got, mmm. I can understand why especially
the fact that it because it's a family member and they created
this. When I talk about Korean ships,
aren't I? I think that the, this clip,
that they show where he's got half of his face, he's white and
half of devices. He's a, he's Indian my daughter.
Watch that actually. She came downstairs and watch
it. And she went oh, that's really
clever. Now she could she she lives in
modern-day Britain where we, you know, and the nice one day
Britain where we have multi culture and And I come from
Birmingham. So we've always me and Caleb
always said, he's coming from Birmingham.
We know no different because we've always been brought up
with Indian people. We black people with Chinese
people who gay people, we've Irish it's, you know, we don't
we don't know any differently it's to us it's you know, we've
simply 9 I think because we know we know no different but then
she's the same you know might have written to that but she
actually found it really clever. The fact that it was a white
person arguing with somebody of color and and the fact that
they're doing it turn around She likes it as an artistic point of
view and I thought I didn't want to actually you thought I'm not
going to, I'm not going to explain why people get upset by
this because it's actually very clever thing to do.
I can understand, maybe his daughter going.
Oh, that's a bit touchy, but we've coming and chips.
I can understand why. Is it showing a purely for the
fact that, you know, he's dirty? He's black top, you know,
there's no question about that, but I often wonder because the
writing is really good. The fact that I had some Chinese
speaking Chinese fight, right? Whoo.
Let's fight Evo, Evo in sickness and in health and he created out
of garnet as the, some people say, oh he was he created that
character just so that he could, he could view the air, his views
for a character. I don't know you'll agree that
at all and there's water. And also woman Mitchell, an
incredibly intelligent man would not apply that while anyway.
And as he turned my many a time doing, someone went all through
our groove yet, he's very good. No, you're missing.
The point is, he's taking the piss out of you and the fact
that Alpha always lost was a very important.
I I think we've come in chips if you'd have actually had an
Indian actor playing that role, I think that would still be
played today because that character I don't know a lot of
the episodes is only six I do. I've only ever seen Clips?
I've never seen a full episode so I have to apologize for if I
get anything wrong here but I think if you had an Indian actor
playing that role because he comes off, you know, you sure
that thing in the bar where he corrects the guy on his
geography, he wins. He wins that point.
You know, and in that time anyway.
I mean, let's face. It was a lot of racism in
factories and offices and there was bureaucracy regarding that
where people wasn't taking notice of it in that scene,
there he wins. And I often wonder if that if
he'd Roti and had somebody else play that part.
An Indian actor, play that part. I'm sure I'm sure it would still
be shown. Now, if anything comes saying,
you know, look who's the idiot is in his factory, look who the
big it is. Look who the idiot.
You know, the loser is the low intelligence.
One is the white guy, mekinese racist remarks, you know?
And so to say I'll we should burn a DVD.
I don't I just don't, I don't agree.
I couldn't stand. Not showing it.
No you know because it because you're going to Bingo arguments
of if people who would people get offended for now, these
days, people get offended for somebody else.
I don't think I don't think spike is racist.
I don't think I think schools the word racist in the sense
that that's what people were saying.
Much that people levity leveled against some of his work.
But now I'm carrying chips is one thing.
Melt the Melting Pot, I don't. Perhaps, you've seen the Melting
Pot, I haven't. No, no, that's pretty bad, but
it was really our, but it, but it kind of it takes potshots at.
They are at every every minority.
Those are dirty have a suppose. Yeah.
But anyway, let's move on for them because it's but, but
please look at these reel to Reels of goon show recordings
and there's an interesting, he picks up one, that's got two
shows on it from the from the eighth series of the Goon show.
The Great British revolution and Africans.
Yes, and and on the but on the box that the tape is in, there's
a big label and song for an is crossed out.
Yeah. And then the, the names of the
two goons shows and he's written spikes written.
Some comments about the shows, not on the Great British
revolution. He's written good.
But quiet end. Yes.
And for Africa incident V good. But the Estado didn't record it
all that brilliant. That may be last.
So like that I did, it's why they didn't put it in, put the
bastard of a starter, but even even his anger, he's quite is,
it's silky, he's still laughing. It is my theory as well is, I
gotta go. Bye Terry, because we know what
sellers was like, for gadgets and recording the ask you, my
theory is that sellers recorded this and actually purely on the
basis that his wife, sell his wife was called an and I just
wondered whether sellers Had originally taped some song or
recorded some song. Yeah.
For his wife and Written song for an and then cross the cross
that out and I wouldn't suppose you would it.
It could pose some lovely tune on the piano for his darling
wife and then let then taped over it with gun shows, that's
that one. But that would sum up sellers
pretty pretty aptly. I'd say yeah.
I mean I think it really would. I love that Australian news
footage from 1958, 8r the ABC News.
Yeah and use. Do you deduce pick up?
I just you see specie Spike there.
Filming Spike getting off the boat as adults in wherever
Sydney or whatever and he's interviewed then by a reporter.
Yeah and I got the impression Spike seem to be trying to put
on a bit of a posh voice. I didn't buy any form of logic
to the script. See right there is a compelling
logic to it. Everything we write really Is
absolutely logical. You cannot deny it mind you.
What? We write the logic, we write
might be, for instance, a man has to walk from here to there.
I say to a man, I want you to go over there now, he can go from
here to there by going the opposite direction, right?
The way around the world and arriving there, so logically he
is done when I've said in The Logical sense, except that he's
completely missed. The obvious point of walking
straight across That's the simplest.
Sort of example, I can give you this.
There's a few times when you see Spike interviewed specially,
like in the 50s where he, he goes quite Colonial British.
Hmm. Did I mean, and I think that's
probably his could, well be he's proper accent, you know, because
that's what you they would have spoke like in India.
So it's kind of a kind of think he's, that could be his papa but
Papa voice because, you know, yeah, I think.
His real voice, neither did any early days in the early days,
until probably, he got more and more confident.
I think that's his real. When I tell you what, I did know
is, you know, he's been interviewed on that table.
Why is it? We've, he's gonna say really to
take. I'm obsessed with hair.
I don't know why, but he's got the early wise haircut.
We're on the side, you know, normally with your hair, you
kind of like your jewelry, Danielle, you draw it back, but
for some reason, in the fifties and early sixties, they A
jewelry forward basil Rathbone, did it as well.
I don't know why. He's so what you watch to get?
It's the worst hairstyle in the world ever instead of like your
joy, your hair back, they draw It Forward.
Around the side. It's not like he's gone balls on
the sides or anything, but it just didn't have sat there
looking at. Then why have you done that?
It just looks awful. Well, I know I'm supposed to be
watching as we all know as Philip Larkin said sexual
intercourse wasn't invented until 1963.
Yeah, and that was when Men start, Doing the hair like that
but then they're like, yeah, that must be it.
But yeah, that is strike the whole Australian thing as well.
I've been with the glad he's half hour, he's he's brilliant
and he's like then brings that thing up because I thought when
I first saw it, so I've never seen that before.
I've never said, never knew anything about that.
So see you next clip which is, you know, it's very funny, very
funny, pretty badly filmed but really funny.
Hello homicide here. Hello Homer.
Uh-huh. This is Friday.
Tomorrow's Saturday. Ha ha.
But you said, ho ho ha ha, I'll be right over.
Hello dr. Wily here and really no O'Reilly
old gag with a try and you know he's holding various things.
Is this the phone company you know pretending to be a phone,
it was the wrench that made me laugh.
That was like what happened? That's my ticket but he's lost
points. I that these are jokes, we see
in 1980, when airplane comes out, its know, these are all the
same jokes and you think one of the suckers must have seen this
footage or Because he's eating. Well, I maybe know someone's
copied it because by its other Hitachi go inside that it's a
little bit. Too early, you know what I mean,
a little bit ahead of its time kind of stuff because someone
might just not a goddamn thinking, why is this, why is he
doing that for? Or is it the fact that reaches
you in especially in the 50s, is probably still a little bit
stiff? Upper lip e kind of thing yet.
In Australia, it's probably there, probably get it a lot
easier with more laid-back. Kind of point of view, you know,
thinking. Look at this silly Palm.
I think I think it's more the thing of like that, get that
human more because I adore like Australian and New Zealand.
Comedy, one of my heroes, who was John Clarke, had dug their
dad, who I got to know, right? Because I wrote a screw out to
be careful what I say. But I wrote a script and I did
the thing, you're not supposed to do by.
I wrote the script with him in mind because I was a massive fan
of the games and I thought I'm going to, you know what, people
tell you you can't send it out of Saudi.
So I had his email address for his for These wise and so I'd
sent it, I sent him an email saying, hey, John, you know,
blah blah, and he got back to me and he was everything, you hope
absolutely everything you hope. And we had a one and a half year
email conversation. We got to know each other
through that and he said, are you free to meet for a coffee?
And I went not really, I'm in Britain.
Anyway, alright, so I've sent him the script over.
He really liked it but he said he couldn't commit because
various things and he said that was probably a polite way of
saying I'm saying, no, and our last communication was, you have
a good holiday and then he he had a heart attack when he was
walking, but he appeared in a film called The Adventures of
Barry. Mackenzie?
Oh, yes. And British people will know the
actor who plays by Mackenzie is the guy who sings, The Neighbors
theme shoe, and of course, John appears in that film and Annie's
is in the Busan. The in the pub as everyone else
is, I think that new zealanders, they're not Australians in that
they'll all virtually New Zealand's because I needed
somebody who people who could kind of do an Australian voice.
Yes. And to everybody around the
world, nobody knows knows, you know, a key will know the
difference between and I was a and not even as it seems for the
Kiwi. But the rest of the world, don't
know that side if you're doing, but it's weird how those little
comedy connections. Coming Spike spike was in The
Adventures of Baron against yes. Well, that was that was also
with didn't less Patterson. Turn up in that actually buried,
blessing, Barry. Um, feet again.
And we just recently, you know what beds becomes got spiking at
that film? You could, you could come back
one day and took talk about Barry.
McClay. That's not a bad idea, is it?
I mean, it's a pretty crap film, I gotta be honest, what am I
good friends thought that Stanley Kubrick had directed a
film called Coupe. Barry.
Mackenzie, what let's point out though, it was Barry Lyndon that
Kubrick Direct That he actually knew who Bobby Mackenzie was is
oh no he wouldn't. He loves?
He loves that kind of thing. Yeah, that no.
But I mean we've all we've all done.
Now you may be my worst son of a bitch.
My wife will and my friends, a lot of my friends are doctors
item and so it about flowers, we'd all had quiets quite some
drinks and art. I don't mind and said - I didn't
say it now I do you know what one I really like pansies and I
really like O'Neill's. And they will just looked at me
in a very weird way and no, I said perineum.
Okay. So yeah, I realize I'd really
like to have some parent hymns in my garden.
He will just look to me going. Well and they're going, you
know, when we know what that is. You don't know what you mean.
You got Dawn, do it, on course. Now, that's it.
Just like you. And you may, well, let that one
lie. 40 years ago, you could have, you know, made a decent
living writing scripts for Hilda.
Can you thank you? Yeah, yeah.
You never know the maybe time back to the documentary.
Yeah, we're straying off was trying to mop.
Yeah. So there's a lot better.
There's a lot about this is family and yeah, mentioned
before there's a picture, quite a touching photograph of the
young children, his young children and he's written
underneath the photo. Watching television, their faces
and their sadness, haunt me. The innocent victims of adults,
unable to come to terms. That is, it's so heartbreaking,
isn't it? Because he's he saved and this
is another great thing about this documentary.
The fact that they use audio types of him when he was talking
about for the bodies or devices while could be good to pulling
scudamore. Yeah.
And he's so open we have heard I think that's absolutely
brilliant but you know he blames He's not afraid to blame himself
for the failure of his first marriage.
You know. He must have been an absolute
nightmare delivery, but the pressure was putting Under.
And he as he says in the documentary, he's mad desire to
be better than anybody else. You know.
He's and and that has such an effect on it.
And the fact that it up to up to the point of his death.
He the regret, he has four and I got when I first saw this, I was
thinking, our man, that must have been his, his true love,
you know? And it's not till later in the
documentary, where You realize there was somebody else before
or that, you know, and that it that's even more heartbreaking
but that's towards the end of the documentary.
It's yeah, but at the whole June, his first wife, the whole
June Story is still quite Mysterious.
Yeah, at least to me because yeah, they she left and he
gained custody of the children. Hmm.
Mother gave them over to. Yeah, I don't think she'd there
was no confusion can test anything.
I think it was. No, it was, it was consensual,
but it kind of it seems like from what I've read and I might
be wrong. Pletely wrong here, missing
something, but from all the books over the years I've ripped
of read about I can want to hmm. It doesn't seem as if June's
children. So that's Laura.
See Les and Sean, he didn't seem as if they really had any
contact at all with her. Well, the fact that they, it was
only the daughters on the documentary, isn't it?
There's yes. Yeah, and the grandson grandson.
Yeah, the grandson who seems to be in charge of the archive
which is quite lies to say they refer to her as June.
Now, I don't know whether that's because of the documentary
because he Had, you know, two other wives or the fact is
that's how they don't. They don't call a mum.
Yeah, you know, I mean it's just June it, just maybe I'm
speculating Wilder here. Just feels like the children
never really had a hell of a lot to do with her after after she
left because it seal a seal at one point in the documentary
says that she only found out relatively recently that that
her mother left when she was 22 months old.
When seen, yeah, I mean that must have been heartbreaking for
her, you know. Must have been, I wouldn't blame
her for not, you know, going out of the way to and I presume.
Yeah. When June would be dead by now,
but I don't know. Did he say?
When did you know when she passed away?
I don't even know if she is dead.
I mean, I'm assuming she lies. She must because she'd be over
100 now. And she now, yeah, especially so
that's by. So I'm not holding any office or
late 90s early 90s. But, but you see Spike's
biographer Paulie's scooter more.
She, she sent a list of questions.
We see a list of questions that screwed him or sent to Jew.
Yes in the 80s. Yeah, and you see June's repair
handwritten replies in. There's a real, there's a real
bitterness and her replies, even if it's venomous is another,
we're especially when you she describes being pregnant and,
you know, can you take me to kind of Ward?
You expect me to do and you think well, was he just been?
Beep. Mooji Wuzzy stressed because the
work or was he in bipolar depression mode?
You know we don't know because that's the trouble with you
read. Someone's writings isn't it?
If it is so you know the word why?
And a text message could be so like why or why don't I mean
there's different connotations of what it could mean but I've
not read that but to us the I didn't know anything about that
biography until I watched this documentary so I'm quite
interested to to go out and get well once I've read all the
other stuff I mean I've got a pile of books over need to read
but if you A good biography. Any sounds like she really did a
research in the fact that she interviewed Spike.
It's not one of these ones where.
Oh yeah, why I spoke to in 45 minutes outside a bus?
Stop. If it's any good.
I think I might get it going. Hi, yeah, I had the paper back
of it when I was younger and I picked it up for a couple of
quid on Kindle about six months ago, wide.
Okay, if you've got a Kindle, I don't know.
I do. I'm a bit Edwardian on that, I
don't like indoors. I I'm not the only physical but
so he's one sitting in this room surrounded by, you know, London
Library that. Yeah, you mentioned you liked
David Quantic. Who doesn't?
Who does gosh. Yeah.
And is it lovely bit where he's listening to a sock?
Because, because there's a little bit of footage of the
wedding Spike's wedding to Petty in 1962, and George.
Yeah, of course, was spikes best man.
Hmm. And a little bit about George
Martin and there's a recording that Spike can song that Spike
composed and recorded in 1972 called little Waltz for Jade.
Obviously for his daughter and I'm not quite sure.
What did he did spite record that and then send it to George
Martin? Because yeah, yeah.
It's like yeah, it's good because he sighs, isn't he hiya
George? This is another another one for
you. It's sweet, isn't it?
Yeah, it's quite cute. It's gorgeous.
It has an otherworldly quality to it.
And it has that childish childlike quality, which is good
for a waltz written for a child, but also very typical of Spike
Milligan. That's all on this tape George
The piano on the second one. My own one which is very dodgy
but it's a nice tune, isn't it? I wish someone would write me a
Flippin walls, so you get the impression that he was recording
stuff and then posting it to him to see what he said, he'd do.
But the thing, quantity, gotta decide that you often think that
if it wasn't for Spike and George being such good friends,
and who doesn't like, who doesn't?
He cannot not like George my in the guy's a genius, you know.
And so is his son, I think he's Sonny is deeply gives a good,
but the fact that George, you know, when we spoke to do all
these kind of like see Eddie stuff and, you know, and we need
win. George, mine did the Beatles.
He was not well-known producer at all.
He was, you know, almost not look down upon, but he was like,
yeah. Give him that word because we
don't want to do. It was almost punishment for ya.
Having an extramarital affair, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Yeah.
We've we've all that kind of silliness and and that and the
context says he where you wouldn't have had all those
silly things in to be or songs, which I know, I know there was a
bit of a difference of people who like the early Beatles to
the later bills but the whole idea with less one that
backwards. Let's let's just have like, you
know, cranberry sauce kind of thing going on in the
background. You know, all that kind of stuff
would would George of had those those little bits of
installation and gone with the, the beetle sense of humor, if
you hadn't have worked with Spike, you know, I don't think,
I don't think he would have done.
I think seen for working-class Lads from Liverpool.
We've quite a cheeky sense of humor.
And possibly also into, you know, into the goons as well, he
got it, he got his to Iowa and he got he because he worked
through Spike, you know, and that to happen was his best man,
as well. They must have had a really good
relationship. Someone who wasn't theorized
someone either on this show or a friend of mine is theorized that
Spike. Obviously they were, he was
friends with George Martin but he possibly ask George to be his
best man. Because he was Spike was going
to be meeting his his in-laws for the first time.
Hmm. On the wedding day.
Oh boy, that leads. Okay, up in Leeds and he had to
travel all the way up to leads and the theory being that
someone with the bearing and the Posh voice that George Martin
had might impress impress them in-laws, who might be a little
bit dubious at hurt their new son-in-law.
Yeah. Yeah, maybe some music and then
that, that you could actually say that, I mean, Patricia is
quite important. I think I got the impression
was, was really quite important to to spike.
Yes, especially the fact that she passed away from cancer, so
they didn't split up or anything like that.
I mean, I'm sure there was stuff that went on in, but we can only
go by what the what, the what the documentary tells us, you
know? But he definitely seems to have
wanted to make this work. And it's probably because the
fact that his first marriage I work and he probably understood
more of himself at this point as opposed to still learning who he
was, when he was a lot younger. Welsh each Patty Patricia.
She knew that she was taking on 3-3 children, ready-made
children. Yeah which which gives just also
goes to show not only a legitimate love for Spike but
also the how much of a strong woman she was as well because
it's not it can't be easy. To go into something like that
as well. I mean I'm you know, I'm sure
anybody who has joined a marriage where you've got
children. It's, it's always a very hard
thing to up presume, I don't know, but I'm only guessing now
you must be quite hard to do because you'd always going to
have that thing of somebody throwing the, you're not my real
mom, or you're not my real dad routine at.
Yeah. And, and to take that on the
chin must be hard, but I did it. I have it automated Malaysian
for and clearly spoke did as well as I do.
Again, we can only go by the the documentary.
We're talking about the kids seem to have had a lot of time
for as well. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
You know, I'm real a real lot of time with her, you know.
Yeah, I question whether that, that followed on with the third
wife, Sheila. I'm not quite sure about.
I have that. Well, yeah, you want my opinion.
Now, we're doing away before we get onto that.
Hmm, we have a few Because obviously there's a number of
episodes of Q5 that are missing. It's a lot.
Yeah, because it's great to see the graffiti from the beer
fighter knob. Whoo, he's well-known in TV
circles. As one of the people who go
searching for wipes and last episodes of stuff, and being a
doctor who fan, you know, anyone else there.
And that's another connection to spike Milligan, which, I've
first really kind of took knows the spike was, the, it's they'd
shown on loads of Comedy clips where the doll it comes in with
the handkerchief on its head. Ed, you know, a lot of Doctor
Who Peter is my goal, funny about that.
I didn't, I thought that was one of the best things I've ever
seen in my life. Comedy and Doctor Who mix
together the same with John Cleese and Elena Elena bomb,
turn up in the Tom Baker, episode talking about how the
Tardis, he's like a piece of art and then he dematerialize, you
know, I love that. I love that all the time.
So Spike Milligan with a darling, you know, as a Dalek
he's after I bet he was in that Dalek as well.
Come on very much. Yeah, I mean, he's searched for
the Lost episode. So Z, you know, I didn't realize
how many of qu fibers missing for I think he said, yeah.
I mean, I've got the complete while the almost complete Q on
DVD. And there's, yeah, I think
there's three this maybe three episodes coming early episodes
of Q5 on that. So yeah, there's for setting.
So that box is like the total theme for 969 29, 86 to 90 its
Q5 up to q9 and then yeah in the 80s Q10.
In was known as there's a lot of it about.
I'm fine. Okay.
It was, it wasn't called Q10, but it was cute and all, but
name, if it does, he does, he kind of does it easy as he
warned? Well, because I've only seen,
no, no, no, I don't know. Let me know.
There's a lot to like there's a lot of funny stuff.
If you watch all of them you can't watch them.
You can't binge-watched. You can't be legit.
Yeah, but later this year, I'm due to do a show.
About the best of Q. Now that was a video game came
out in the 80s. Right?
Yellow cover with Spike as Batman.
I think which is excellent and I am so myself and a guest are
going to talk about that that VHS really the best of Q because
that brings together. Yeah.
Some of the best stuff I think that's not been released on DVD
over me. So you're doing.
I don't think so. No, not not.
As far as I know. I know so but yeah I mean you
know I find watching Q episodes of Q can be.
It can be a bit of a slug, some time, some of it.
Anyway, by the way, dick, vidi-vidi really 9, is this
story? True, I've been told that is it
is true that dick fitty being, you know, very well, no, one of
the sort of BFI nabobs. Yeah.
Archivists he, obviously he will very often present or introduce
special film showings, and, and retrospectives.
Yes, things like that. And is the story true that he,
he, he wants presented, Richard Beckinsale retrospective some at
some theater somewhere in London.
Why? You know, obviously celebrating
the life and work of Richard Beckinsale.
Yeah and dick fit each. Chose a particular episode of
porridge to to screen. Oh hi.
But it was, it was Prisoner and escort.
Oh wait he's not in it. Which which beckinsale's not in
the pilot episode. Yeah, that's brilliant.
Yeah because the very first that yes the pilot episode that is
that was done on for Vani Barker's.
How is it called? 6 of 7 of 1.
I don't have one. Yeah he was that and open all
hours which got peace out of those.
Yes seriously. Done.
Yeah. Oh man, what I think today, I
remember seeing a great documentary about Richard
Beckinsale and he passed away when he was.
I can't tell you who I got a funny feeling.
It was the same directory. Did The Long Good Friday?
I might be wrong on that but he was doing a film when he passed
away and So that obviously they had to recast it but he is in
the film. He's driving the car in one
scene of it. Like, they're deliberately kept.
The anus would be like her, Harvey Keitel, who is in
Apocalypse Now? But you you're not going to find
him in it, he's in it. Is he's but, of course, Martin
Sheen took over from. Well, isn't isn't that in Back
to the Future Eric? Eric Stoltz is in.
Yeah, the cafe scene. Yes, that's right.
Yeah yeah, he's in the cafe. See what's he got?
What three weeks into filming, as Marty McFly and then he was
fired. I know, I know and that's
fascinating. I got a really good book all
about Back to the Future 2, massive.
Coffee table book. It's so worth getting, and that
goes into great detail on that. But it's amazing to think that
they know straight away that something something isn't
working. A television set, don't worry,
it's a red, yellow purple. I've never seen this footage, My
Mother, by the way, by the way. She's she's here all the time.
He was a real good mixture of Grandma and Grandpa, Leo and
Florence performers, lunatics. So that they were quite
eccentric. How do you do?
I cannot bear. People who are uncritical of,
hmm of Kiros. If you like, I don't think even
the Beatles had their lousy songs, you know?
Yeah. Maxwell's Silver, Hammer is the
what I'm saying is, you know, if you've got a hero of some
description, whether it be music, Cairo, comedy hero, who
Hmm, the more than likely got a large body of work that you can
pick the best bits out of and cherish.
And, and you don't have to like everything necessarily.
And the same goes with Spike. I don't like all the spikes
stuff. No, I exactly.
And you tend to the end, appreciate the stuff they really
like we wouldn't mean you was talking about Mark of Cain
earlier on and how, you know, you love sleuth.
And, you know, I like the man who would be king of the lab,
but then you got Jules three. And you've got, although
actually one of my secret ones, I really like Al hates it.
It is a film we did in I think here is 92 is showing young
called blue ice. Charlie what is in it actually
in a jazz, he owns a jazz club and it's not great but it is,
it's got the worst car chase in the world ever.
He was literally done like me and you could do it, but there's
something about it, which is really good.
But, you know, you can't not have an aside that market
Michael Caine's done every film. All kinds on has been brilliant.
Not even by his own admission, that he only did some films,
just so they could pay for a holiday.
And there's nothing wrong. Cannot you know, if someone's
going to pay you a couple of million to do a really shitty
film. When you think, well, I want
mine that housing in l.a. let's go for it.
But you, right, you've got to be, you've got to be critical
about the stuff that you love. Otherwise, you, you're not going
to enjoy it properly, you know. Exactly simple.
And as you say, there's nothing worse than listen to someone,
who goes, oh no, they're brilliant, is many black people
are like to I find out after these sports teams where
someone's dedicated a sports team, you didn't say anything
bad about it, you know, Facebook groups.
Actually, not not, not not going pod, Facebook group, by the way,
folks who know, overall waffle or waffle.
I know that says a, but no, I know what you mean.
I have left so many, especially over the past couple years, in
doctor, who will die. You know, everyone has their
opinions on the Jodie Whittaker. Either I like her Percy.
I just thought of her stories were abysmal bar.
Two of them. Funny enough.
They were both. He started called ones, which is
the Rosa Parks episodes and demons of the Punjab.
They were great. But to stuff that people moan
about and just bitch about it. I just the amount of times I
just left thinking do I? You don't like, it doesn't
matter but don't don't moan it. Somebody else just because they
like it, you know. They're, they're Jodie.
Whittaker was your Tom Baker. Jenna mean.
It's like, when you get something that social media
isn't it. I'd be I'd be more than happy
and I have done quite a few times to leave every bit of
social media. Just walk away from the lot of
it. But And I'm sure you probably
know this. Where you do a podcast.
It's pretty useful. Yeah.
To get your podcast out of there and then you have like on your
kind of new page, you know, and also under the group to which I
haven't participated in the group chat.
Do I really do enjoy reading what people say, 9 times out of
10? Because way above my head I'm
thinking I'm not I can't quote, what?
You're quoting is too good but it's great to eat because
everyone's enjoyable everyone's getting time with each other and
everyone sort of like has a passion about Also what I find
are we reading some of your listeners comments on your page
that you can be slightly critical belly and you don't get
lambasted for it, you know what I mean?
And that's what is good about those pages and stuff like that.
That's what's good about it. But there's so much more venom
out there and it's quite upsetting to read.
Sometimes, you know, well you say that sometimes you want to
just leave social media, Elon Musk is doing his best to
encourage us to leave, isn't he? Yeah.
Yeah, I'd leave the planet. I thought I loved one of you
spaceships to go away from Elon Musk.
I mean, it's only a matter of time before he turns out to be
something in a James Bond film. All these foul face melts into a
maritime, we'll see, we'll see the real version of him to know
a liar, human Trump. I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna
throw some, it's the main here, that's in this documentary,
which I absolutely loved. And he was writing a letter to
because I didn't know how much it because I do talk about his
charity work and You know, save the kangaroo, save the whales
and the World Wildlife Fund and all this kind of stuff is
activism is really prolific but what I really do like is the
fact that when you vote to the green party and the fact that
you just wrote dear party, I thought that was brilliant.
Oh that was just sort of like not Dear Sir.
Well who magazine just dear party?
And I thought that was just that was just brilliant.
You know? I thought that was great elmarie
of the sea. Hmm, turns up And I was always
been very keen on the wartime Memoirs and he's always yeah,
time service is got a great podcast at all, it's so good,
isn't it? I mean, it's like there's so
much content there. He actually was Kell who got me
into that because they know I've I've always I've always actually
quite like sound of even before we did the pub landlord stuff.
I've always been a bit if not know.
Had I have laughed at the pub landlord actually find watching
the pub landlord you know you get those things on YouTube
where it's like Beacons. React to something.
Yeah, right and I've watched a few of those may be configured
to Frankie boil or Jimmy Carr, buddy.
Al movie stuff is brilliant. And there's one clip on there,
where it I think it's Al is deliberately done this to show
off his historical knowledge, and it is like, shout it, shout
me a country Chamois a country and these people show a name of
a country, and he gives them a historical fact of what, but,
and beat them in a wall. What a links to a wall.
And, you know that, if actually Al's got it, bang on On, you
know and it's so clever. Yeah.
But I love the fact that heat the person he looks like he's
all the the history and and the script of I don't think it's
him. No I think it's his grandson.
He picks up the Hitler script which is net, which was when you
read any reason. Yeah you.
They're going unpublished. Manuscript written from Hitler's
point of view. This is a book written from like
a first-person perspective as if he was out of Hitler.
And this has never I've been published either.
Comedy when it relates to Hitler is a bit hit and miss, I mean
talking about camps called Butlins and the worst camps were
called pontins. So questionable comedy you know
what that sounds like something that Mel Brooks could write.
Oh yeah. And possibly get away with
because he's Jewish. Yeah and you don't know you had
a Min and then it would work perfectly, you know.
And then later I mean scrolling forward, sorry but Eddie Izzard
read the script that Spike It's written for in the early 90s I
think for a proposed sitcom called over the hill.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, which you kind of think
was spiked serious about this? Or was he just was it just an
intellectual exercise? He was just writing it just to
get it out of your system. Exorcise some demons because
it's about the it's a proposed sitcom In which spike would play
a version of himself being rejected for all jobs.
Yeah I mean it's very Allan Poe Huge isn't it is the you know,
any other parties like, yeah? Monkey 10, he's talking about,
yes, you know, smell my cheese kind of thing and and it's a
great idea, but I think you're probably right, you know?
I think that was it would have run some photos.
We've had pitched his agent at Peach.
We Stephanie a kind of like, an exorcism of anger because he
mentions on the tapes saying that I've clearly done something
to upset the BBC and the BBC, you know, you know, everyone's
got their opinions on the BBC, especially the moment.
With the sacking of, while the director-general even, but they
clearly had something for him as he does say about the old
Oxford, you know, I didn't go to Oxford, I didn't go to
university, but on that aspect, back in the 50s and the 60s,
with the BBC, which is something that bothers me.
Now, to this day, you could go to the head of Comedy to BBC
walking to television Centre go to reception as I could.
I speak to the person in charge of scripts.
So, I've got this idea and I go yeah, there's an office
upstairs. Go sit in Let me script, you
know, I mean they obviously that that wasn't like, you know, all
the time but you could, you could do that.
A lot of, a lot of well-known TV people in the 60s, came from
doing that. They got given enough, if they
wrote something down and they liked what they read, probably
didn't make it. But you know what, you can go
and write an episode of so and so, and so and so, you know, you
can go and Ride This and like that and then build their career
up. So you didn't have to go to
university, didn't have to be in that kind of Johnny didn't need
to go and do writing courses, and all this kind of stuff is
nowadays. You Yeah I know because I'm a
writer there. They prefer you to of gone
through that, you know. And I think spike is probably,
right? He's probably you getting all
the especially a TS at that point.
You would have had not the nine o'clock news.
You know you would have had Blackadder she hates because he
really hates. He says that which is you know
to be fair, the first series of Blackadder no don't say a word
against Nasser is a blight. He's he's interesting because
you K, gold are showing the pilot are Cat, who is Joy's
evident in the? A crime cannot roll.
Yeah, and so which I don't think many by don't think.
I think I saw a bit to be on YouTube, maybe but never seen a
whole thing, but I can kind of understand him not liking.
The first series of Blackadder II mean I prefer black attitude.
Well, I live or hate but I would say the opposite.
Actually, I think he would possibly not object to the first
series of Blackadder. I think he didn't like I he
didn't like, alternate what he called, alternative comedy been
out. It's an influence, certainly
didn't like the young ones and things like that and I could
imagine he wouldn't like, the objects that were created.
I mean, I, this is thing. I'll, I mean, you know, I, the
young ones are just released that 40-year, documentary,
friend of mine, Lucy blocks will be, or just a big mouth
scrapbook, which is great. If you've never never read her
blog is absolutely brilliant and she saw brick and I'd do loads
of stuff in the days of dangerous, for those and also I
mean I did bottom recording sessions but I you know, you go
back and watch the young ones and it is very dated, you know,
he's very dated, but you got to take it for what it is, you
know, it's, I think that might be a jealousy there because
alternative comedy with the new comedy was, what changed
everything from, you know, the Frank car Sundays and, and all
this kind of stuff. You know, that was the 70s where
you add other comedians, you know, that television program.
Yeah, so for. So there's a little bit, I think
that's Spike, might have a little bit of jealousy.
On that of dismissing, so-called alternative comedy adapt.
I have no doubt. That's the case and there's
probably still to this day. There's a long line of
comedians, who rail against the younger Generations.
Barry. Cryer was the exception to that.
Barry. Cryer was always was always very
supportive of our of now. You Comedians and new comedy,
you know, but Bobby Clark. Hi, you know what else?
You shouldn't have regrets in life?
I don't really do everyone. Does of course, the W be alive
if you said you don't. But I wish I'd had a couple of
opportunities to go and see Barry choir doing some stand-up
talk or and in conversation with kind of thing on stage and I
never went because the funny thing about very choir is the
man never looked any different. No, I'd look the same in the in
the sixties as they didn't really add a slightly darker
here in the 60s. If you say Doug, a hair.
Yeah, but you always looked the same kind of thing just slightly
ages ago. Look, maybe it's because the
fact he was always on TV, you know, it.
You always had a good story to tell and yeah, he was a bit like
the John peel had music. Yeah, I mean, he was always an
advocate of anything new coming up and I don't think we have.
I don't think we have anybody of that ilk.
Now maybe John Lloyd. Yeah, maybe.
Maybe John Lloyd again. Where does John Lloyd come from?
You know, wood, is it did Spike like John Lloyd?
Probably not. No, you know, there were so I
saw Barry live a couple of times actually Mmm.
He can't you come out and you faces aching just from even
though you've heard you've heard all the gags.
Yeah. The for with Barry.
You know, if you listen to a sorry I haven't a clue.
Now I've heard them all before but ya know, just one about that
script. The sitcom over the hill which
was next which was never made. I like the fact and I'm sure
there was no connection, but I like the fact that in the
script, the character that Spike would have played was offered a
position. PG tips, advert.
That is brilliant because, of course, who voiced the PG tips
in the original advert. Was this like know who was it,
who else could it have been that was connected.
Spike Milligan, was it? You won't seek Him Peter
Sellers? No, it wasn't.
It was it. Yes.
Yeah. But you the trouble is is that
sellers never used his own voice on anything.
Well, no, but but it could be anyone.
I didn't know that I'm probably did but that doesn't mean that
all night. I'm not going down this Rabbit
Hole. Where, when I go to bed, I'm
going to be looking at bloody PG tips anger.
Strikes for in millions of homes.
That means it's tea time. T time with its gleaming, silver
and tinkling teacups. What a happy time, it is and how
fortunate the hostess, who knows that.
Her favorite e is also the favorite of her friends for no
matter how elegant, bananas are traveling with company.
Now, guest is ever really happy without the right kind of tea.
T, good teeth. Fresh tea tea, you can take to
the last delicious. Drop a mint but bumpy geek buck
buck, buck buck, we touched on Sheila, he said
wife and you wanted to say something about that.
Come on, I did because I think I said earlier on about when I
spiked always seems to look old at one point, he loves it.
Well, I've changed my Facebook profile picture today, yesterday
to the spark that I like it, well who I have in my head,
because when she came along, and I think name is loves the 83.
So now that she wanted to move out of Hmong Hurst because it
reminded of past People and all that kind of stuff.
And I can kind of understand that but to move him away, to
almost isolation and his own daughter.
I forget which one says that she just aged incredibly.
And there's so, it's so obvious. He it is obvious.
He'd so obvious and it's so upsetting to see because he's
gone for these very tall, strapping bloke, you know,
either a good prominent nose to hunched over and very weak, low
voice and the voice as well as Voice goes, you know, and it's
almost, you know, everyone knows that famous Cliff of him talking
about our future king you know, and he's like that and it's like
and this what I have to say because this is how I feel but
she did that to him, you know, and it's heartbreaking to see
how he goes from and also because of it the way he ages
some, which is depression would have would have, you know, got
worse as well. I Can't help but feel she wanted
him for herself which is greed not one in anyone else to have
any part of him and just to take him away from his friends, just
aged him in and he's such a horrible, horrible way to go.
And I think that script of over the hill, I don't know whether
he wrote that when he was when he was getting older or you
know, when he was not particularly I think it was the
early 90s. Yeah.
So this part of me thinks that maybe in that script is probably
a little bit more about that. I won't surprise you if there's
a bit about he's Early life in that you know how he's also
maybe a bit downtrodden or anything.
And it's it's so sad. I'm not obviously I don't want
to go. Nine blame and that's not fair.
There's someone's gotta you know you gotta defend yourself a nice
things but I could again I know I keep repeating it but it's
important that we can only go by what these documentary shows and
it doesn't show her in a good light at all.
No it doesn't know. Okay.
So is there anything else? You know about the documentary?
We have not touched on so far that before we wrap up that you
want to and I think the ending or All right, you've been
watching all that, so I'll ask you a question.
Do you think I'm normal or abnormal?
Better still, are you abnormal or normal?
Is it abnormal to put clothes on to go swimming?
Is it normal for a white man to Black up for a Minstrel show?
I want to be normal for a black man to White up for a Minstrel
show. Is it normal for the pope to be
single? I mean, is it normal for me to
be talking now to millions of people on television?
Is that normal? Is it normal or abnormal to be a
cloud? Is it abnormal to be mad?
Or is it mad to be abnormal? I think it's a beautiful way to
end because it kind of sums it all up, doesn't it?
You know the whole thing of spy Milligan and the whole of these
documentary does say you know you sometimes you do have to
question your own life. You have to question your
father. Well what is normal?
Yeah, who wants to be normal anyway you know that it's such a
thing to say especially as like I keep saying this to my
daughter where everyone says she's actually Rebellion
slightly against the norm at school and anyway everyone
dresses the same. Yeah.
If you say The other day. A guy?
Come on, boys. All just assigning will seem to
have tracksuits on the no style and and she's going against that
grind of what the girls in her class where.
And and she said it dish itself because on I've realized that
who wants to be normal and I thought, yeah, good for you,
man. That is why it's all about and
then normal or abnormal, is it the same thing.
And I think he's Spike saying that just about himself there,
through everything, he's gone through, you know, and that
whole collection of all those books, those photo albums.
I scrapbooks. Those Wheels though.
Films that. You know, what is normal there?
It's not normal, but it's certainly not abnormal.
No, I thought I was a great way to end it.
Wow, absolutely. Yeah, I'm Sorry by the way, not
all the important old boys wear track suit so some of us wear
corduroy, maybe enough, there's nothing wrong with that.
We should I OD for World of fashion.
I've literally, I literally turned 50 this year.
I got a couple of months to go before I turn 50 and you know
what I'm excited about? Out getting away.
We wearing the curve at all. Yeah stylish I know I'm going
for help even picked one eye. I'm 50 next year.
So at does that mean I can get a credit to so absolutely acrobat
and a Panama Hat apella hat at a rakish angle.
Exactly. Almost like you did both our
dish. I think you know where we going
so has been thoroughly enjoyable talking to you today.
My I've so enjoyed it I hope I haven't I do I do have a
tendency to go, is reason why my podcast is called waffle on
because I do have a tendency to just to go off on tangents.
So I I so apologize to you and your listeners if I thought
vehicle. So do I and annoy someone who
doesn't really hope it doesn't anyway, but this podcast my
podcast goes off as many tangents that to have someone
like, you on as well. It's gone off.
Sort of double tangent. Yeah.
You got your workout and this editing suite and and listen
with waffle on. Hmm, obviously, you covered
movies but also television Any, any particular plans in the
future to cover Highway little? You know what the funny thing is
is that I remember being really, this is going to sound terrible.
You know, I got confused with, this is another chunk of
conversation. We was talking about Highway and
Kel was talking about Highway and I turn - I don't know why
you don't like it, you know, it's a guy who's an angel who
has come from heaven and local. Send a look at the guy in here
idiot because that was Aquaman or something.
I got really was no, but highway highway to Heaven and Highway.
I thought, I think so you can would have been better in level.
There's a surprisingly, surprisingly large number of
people who enjoy watching Harry. See, Kim, interviewing.
Members of Christian, the Calypso groups in provincial
towns. And I think he was a, he was a
better songs of praise because how I seem to remember highwomen
Way. It wasn't my cup of tea.
You sending my mom. Mom enjoyed it.
But I think my mom, enjoy, because she just like the, the
happiness of have you seek him? You know, I mean, I don't think
of it. I think I said yeah, I don't
think I've ever seen anything where that man, he's not smiling
when it'd be terrible. If there was a biography that
came out where he was like, had been a mass murderer or
something History's Greatest monster, you couldn't know.
There's something in that in and I can't see, even though my view
was narcy, was nasty to Oliver, let's face it.
Well, he was also, he wasn't a great guy in.
Film version of the bed sitting room spikes film about.
It's like okay, I've not seen that he in that, we don't see it
on screen but he murders, his wife and his mother, really?
Yeah. But look don't, well yeah, he
allows them to. Yeah.
Anyway, I won't spoil it, but you have.
But, and by the way, earlier before earlier you earlier, you
know, why you earlier you said, you mentioned the Future King,
you silly sausage. Well yes, of course, I know but
I slept through it, you know, she didn't, you didn't watch it.
I did what? Well I watched it through my
eyelids or possibly teams for some alcoholic thing, you know,
I yeah, my wife's really quite lucky.
No, well, how did look forward to it as well?
Actually, I wasn't expecting him to turn up to Westminster Abbey
it is. It is robes wearing If those big
oversized noses, which spike eyes to heaven?
The q-series thought that was a nice touch.
I wonder why my bet you any money that I'm on, you say now
is made of rubber. So it's probably the guy didn't
die, but that wouldn't surprise you.
That doesn't turn up in the auction somewhere along with it.
You know, because he always seems to have it was a few of
them, I think. Oh yeah, definitely.
He wasn't a nosy bunk style knows.
I was. It was just, it was an
individual that you ever knows, he Bonk?
I do. Yeah, that's creepy Spike
Milligan. Viewed.
In quotes interviewed Van Morrison for Q magazine in the
80s, wearing open extra that extra long version of that nose.
And if anybody needs a sense of humor, which Van Morrison?
Yes! Yes.
Listen, meds. Thank you so much.
And we've already touched on the fact that you may return.
I'm sure you will return and love you.
A drink, right? Yeah.
And talk about if not not, If there's a petition to, for me,
not to come back on. I totally understand if not to
talk about the Barry Mackenzie movie then do something else.
I'll be more than happy to my that'd be great.
Thanks again to meds, waffle on can be found in all the usual
Places. I cannot recommend it.
Highly enough if you like the sort of thing that I do on gun
pod. And obviously, you've heard meds
on this show. I think it'd be right up your
street, so, please seek it out. So I'll be back next week until
then. Take care of yourselves.
A, see you soon. Bye.
So I'll be back next week until then.
Take care of yourselves. A, see you soon.
Bye.