1
00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:11,400
Yeah, James laughs, Tommy 
Cooper, as I could almost see 

2
00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,000
the fares or a dream. 
You were script associate on 

3
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,500
that last but one series The 
Frankie Howard show. 

4
00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:20,000
And did you have to write all 
the illusion RZ? 

5
00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:22,300
Well, we didn't get as far as 
discussing semantics, you didn't

6
00:00:22,300 --> 00:00:24,300
like any of the material I 
suppose. 

7
00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:26,500
It wasn't the smartest move, 
giving him. 

8
00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:30,300
Shut that door as a catchphrase.
No wonder you were the The only 

9
00:00:30,300 --> 00:00:33,000
writer in television history of 
Frank, never chase around the 

10
00:00:33,008 --> 00:00:35,400
dressing rooms and get desperate
the Hat. 

11
00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:38,300
You ought to be getting this 
down on paper. 

12
00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:41,100
It there's a show in it. 
Yeah, the the best comedies 

13
00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:45,300
always about losers. 
He's called Des para. 

14
00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:48,900
Desperate is a comedy writer you
know makes anyone laughs. 

15
00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:52,900
Yes go on there. 
Go over there and write it down.

16
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:53,900
Yeah you have it. 
The nothing. 

17
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,700
No, thank you. 
You can have it for nothing. 

18
00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:58,800
Oh can I have it for nothing to 
make sure? 

19
00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:38,400
Hello and welcome to goon pot. 
My name is Tyler Adams this 

20
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,600
week. 
It's a slight departure one of 

21
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,100
my all-time favorite radio. 
Comedies is the tremendous Ed 

22
00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:48,900
redden's week which has been 
playing on radio. 

23
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:54,600
For since I think about 2005 its
titular character is I would 

24
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argue one of the greatest 
British comedy creations of the 

25
00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:01,800
last 20 years or so. 
Ed Reardon is described as an 

26
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author pipe. 
Like a consummate Fair Dodger 

27
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and master of the abusive email,
the man who co-created the show 

28
00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:12,700
with Andrew Nichols and plays Ed
himself. 

29
00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:15,900
Is my guest this week. 
Christopher, Douglas who I 

30
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,000
wanted to have on the show for a
long, long time and he finally 

31
00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:24,700
agreed after weeks months of 
badgering by me. 

32
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The thing is crystal is not a 
massive fan of the goons, 

33
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,900
although he likes them enough 
but he was King to come on and 

34
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talk to me about radio comedy in
general, including the guns. 

35
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And obviously, I was interested 
in finding out more about his 

36
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own involvement in the medium of
radio comedy. 

37
00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:48,100
It's a great conversation and 
the we're actually a couple of 

38
00:02:48,108 --> 00:02:53,600
moments when the normal genial 
tones of Christopher gave way to

39
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,600
very slight snatches of the 
convergently Ed. 

40
00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:03,500
So I hope you enjoy the chat. 
No, no, I'm not here to blow 

41
00:03:03,500 --> 00:03:07,100
smoke up your fundament, but 
I've been a big fan of Ed 

42
00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:11,200
reardon's week since since the 
early days, really, I mean I 

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00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,300
won't, I'll just tell you a 
little story because I associate

44
00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:18,300
first listening to egg redden's 
week with my son, my son, who is

45
00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:22,700
now 16, when he was very little,
so would have been sort of 

46
00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:27,600
2007-2008, something like that. 
When I would put him to bed, 

47
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,300
read him a story. 
And but I was not allowed to 

48
00:03:30,300 --> 00:03:33,500
leave the room. 
Room until he was asleep. 

49
00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:36,300
And he would know he would hear 
the slightest, you know, for 

50
00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,000
tried to move out, the room 
surreptitiously, he would hear 

51
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,900
and he would be instantly awake,
you know? 

52
00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:44,000
So I had to wait until he was in
a deep Slumber. 

53
00:03:44,700 --> 00:03:46,700
So to you do need, that could be
very boring. 

54
00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:49,400
So what I would do is I would 
have my headphones and I would 

55
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,700
listen to episodes of a dragon 
and it was fantastic. 

56
00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:55,400
But I would. 
Yeah, I'd have to study for my 

57
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,800
Chuckles. 
Of course, I was going to say, I

58
00:03:57,808 --> 00:04:00,700
thought you were going to go on 
to say it was ideal listening 

59
00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:05,200
and Circumstances are very 
unlikely to not felt like, wow, 

60
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,300
I'm glad you said, can I just 
say Spanish at the last moment 

61
00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:14,500
in my favor? 
Yeah, well, I was bigger doing a

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00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:17,500
barbecue the other day. 
We had a brief window of 

63
00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:21,899
sunshine last week and I decided
to have a barbecue for Mother's 

64
00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:23,900
Day and I was listening to one 
of your episodes. 

65
00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:26,900
Actually, what I was doing and I
laughter, I'm not again, this is

66
00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:29,200
not meant to sort of, you know, 
make you blush, but I loved out 

67
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,400
loud. 
It was an older episode The one 

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00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,300
where Ed is on an archaeological
dig. 

69
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,500
Oh yeah. 
And he thinks he's in with a 

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00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:41,400
chance with the the the leader 
of the Dig and he nips to the 

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00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:47,100
gents he goes to the vending 
machine, Mega pleasure, diabolo 

72
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:53,100
nothing in corduroy. 
I see let us look at something 

73
00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:55,800
about he put He was on an 
archaeological dig and he'd 

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00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,800
found the you know, a Roman or 
Saxon coin or something. 

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00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,100
And yet that was the only Money.
He had if we put it in the 

76
00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:06,400
vending machine is worth, sort 
of 50,000 pounds or something. 

77
00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:08,100
It's, that's right, that's 
right. 

78
00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:12,000
One of the things obviously was 
doing research in terms of your 

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00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,400
career and I appreciate that. 
Ed is a more recent sort of 

80
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,300
success, recent relatively 
speaking. 

81
00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:21,900
But you've been, oh, do you need
in line for 30-odd episodes, 

82
00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:25,700
which I didn't realize? 
I don't think it's quite as many

83
00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:29,300
as that. 
But it, I think I was in for 

84
00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:30,700
series. 
Yes. 

85
00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:36,000
For From 1977 to 80 when they're
when it ended, I think. 

86
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,300
Yeah. 
And yes it was but I mean it was

87
00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:44,400
in black and white when it began
and it moved to color by the 

88
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,000
time I joined. 
But it was, it was pretty 

89
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,400
popular, Sunday night viewing, I
think and particularly so in 

90
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,200
Scandinavia and there was 
another place. 

91
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,200
They click Bulgaria. 
That's right there. 

92
00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:03,600
Either they didn't know whether 
they liked it or whether, you 

93
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,500
know, they just have to have it,
but it was very popular, there 

94
00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:12,600
was the misery of my childhood 
because because I grew up in New

95
00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,800
Zealand in the late 70s, early 
80s. 

96
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,900
And it was, it was a, it was 
shown on TV and said, and my 

97
00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:22,600
mother, my late mother was 
obsessed by it. 

98
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,400
She, it was her favorite program
and I can even to this day, I 

99
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,400
can remember the theme music 
very distinctly because I wasn't

100
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,400
because we, you know, one TV in 
the The house, if the annealing 

101
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,200
line was on I couldn't watch, 
whatever was on the other side. 

102
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,700
So we had to watch that and I 
think I think my mother was 

103
00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:43,100
rather taken with so then Peter 
Gilmore's side-whiskers Gilmore?

104
00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:46,200
Yes, yes. 
He big heart from yeah, hmm. 

105
00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:50,900
So that's why I drop that in. 
Also, you read Pender's Fenn. 

106
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,800
Yes. 
Yes that was a little bit 

107
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,100
before. 
In fact, pain is friend was the 

108
00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:58,600
first job I did for the BBC? 
It was 1972. 

109
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:06,500
I think and It by the late, very
great Allan Clarke and written 

110
00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,200
by David Rankin. 
Great David Rankin and it was 

111
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,300
one of those things that in 
those days you could sort of 

112
00:07:13,900 --> 00:07:17,500
sneak through the system and get
these rather challenging pieces.

113
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:25,500
Made a very distinguished 
producer called David Rose was a

114
00:07:25,900 --> 00:07:29,500
master at getting that done and 
they would often be done through

115
00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:33,300
Birmingham. 
And so that's how Pender's Fen 

116
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:35,200
was done. 
They managed to get it somehow 

117
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,800
passed The Gatekeepers and it is
the most extraordinary piece of 

118
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,100
work. 
There's there's a movement now 

119
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,700
it's sort of comes Under The 
Heading of folk horror 

120
00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:48,900
remembered. 
So that's only that terms. 

121
00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:52,700
Only just come into existence it
was but it didn't seem to be 

122
00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:58,400
like anything else to me. 
And yes, it was, it was sort of 

123
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:05,800
about everything and I'm Most 
strange and memorable piece of 

124
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,600
work. 
And the Whitechapel Gallery, had

125
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:16,800
a showing of it, I think the 
year before last and which is a 

126
00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:22,200
with an audience and they asked 
me to take part as one of the, 

127
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,400
not many people still going who 
were in it. 

128
00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:29,200
And and I said, well, I 
shouldn't really be on the only 

129
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,300
had about sort of ten lines. 
Or something. 

130
00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:34,200
So I shouldn't really be under 
the panel but they said, well, 

131
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,000
we're in that case. 
Would you interviewed every drug

132
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,299
kit? 
So I was very honored and of 

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00:08:38,299 --> 00:08:40,799
course, absolutely delighted to 
do that because I'm, you know, 

134
00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:45,300
such a big fan of his work. 
And so David rivkin and Spencer 

135
00:08:45,300 --> 00:08:47,200
Banks who played the lead. 
Yes. 

136
00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,200
Dear friend, I sort of 
interviewed the pair of them at 

137
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,200
the Whitechapel gallery and it 
was it was quite a quite a 

138
00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:59,500
amazing event, really, it was a 
lot of people turned out to see 

139
00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:03,500
this. 
Masterpiece curiosity, it's a 

140
00:09:03,500 --> 00:09:08,000
remarkable piece of work, bring 
it up to date. 

141
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,900
You want the tenants would award
last year for Tristram Shandy. 

142
00:09:14,100 --> 00:09:17,600
Yes, yes, I was a bit surprised 
they make that as well because 

143
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:25,100
it was conceived as a sort of, 
because Tristram Shandy is is a 

144
00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:30,800
sort of satire in part on 
publishing as it exists. 

145
00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:38,200
Stood in the mid-eighteenth 
century and you know it's novels

146
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,700
were quite still quite new then.
Yes. 

147
00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:46,000
And in fact many people thought 
there was only one really which 

148
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,600
was Don Quixote and there were 
some other ones but you know the

149
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,400
feeling was they would not not 
much good really. 

150
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,100
And so if you if you wrote a 
novel you either have to refer 

151
00:09:56,100 --> 00:10:00,800
to Don Quixote or honor it in in
some way more. 

152
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,100
Um, what Laurence sterne did 
would sort of completely take 

153
00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:10,600
the piss out of novels and the 
any and Publishing and fictional

154
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,700
authorship. 
So I thought, when I came to do 

155
00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:17,200
the play, well, it's so huge. 
This this novel, you can't 

156
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,100
really put it into single radio 
slot, unless you make it, you 

157
00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:27,200
have the satirical victim as it 
were, is, is Radio rather than 

158
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,500
mid 18th century Publishers and 
fiction. 

159
00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:34,000
So it was set out on radio. 
So, I mean, not surprisingly. 

160
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,800
It was quite difficult to 
persuade them to do it, but they

161
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,400
said yet at the third time of 
asking, they said, yes. 

162
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,200
And so we did it. 
It was quite difficult to make 

163
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,100
because, of course, it was right
in the middle of writing. 

164
00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:48,700
The start of the lockdown 
recordings. 

165
00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:54,400
When there's the mechanics of it
were really quite sort of 

166
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,200
makeshift. 
And we're, you know, we're all 

167
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,800
sort of working that way for the
first time, I'm sorry. 

168
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,200
It would be, I mean how did you 
do that? 

169
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,500
Because the thing I read most of
Tristram Shandy years ago, the 

170
00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:09,100
thing I remember and I think 
most people would remember, is 

171
00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:12,900
the black page s that had 
actually, that's right. 

172
00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:18,300
As you get that over on radio. 
Well I did try but of course 

173
00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:24,400
silence on radio. 
He's it's not that great and 

174
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:30,100
even if you use sort of 
acknowledge that it still didn't

175
00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:37,000
but the I did I suppose I 
satirize the idea of a radio 

176
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,600
show that had nothing to say 
sometimes so they sort of ground

177
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,200
to a halt a bit but that was the
nearest. 

178
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,700
I got to the blank page. 
Yeah. 

179
00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:50,200
No. 
It's very enjoyable to do and in

180
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,900
fact that that sort of rather 
more what I'm what I've been 

181
00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:58,300
doing in recent years is is 
drama and sort of one-off things

182
00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:02,900
and less of the The sitcom's 
because as well as Ed there 

183
00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:05,600
were, there were a couple of 
other side Beauty's Britain 

184
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,300
which we did needed three series
of that. 

185
00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:10,400
And there's another one that was
being going for a long time, is 

186
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,200
about this. 
Dreadful cricketer called, Dave,

187
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,200
pod more, mmm. 
Yep. 

188
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,300
I mean, still, you know, it's 
always still doing Ed and but 

189
00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:23,600
I've sort of also managed to get
the one-off plays going 

190
00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:25,700
adaptations. 
Yeah. 

191
00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:28,500
You've been working on something
recently visited you in a 

192
00:12:28,508 --> 00:12:30,100
position to say whether it is. 
Or is that still? 

193
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:33,300
Yes. 
We're gonna do it quite soon. 

194
00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:38,400
I think it's an adaptation of a 
novel by George gissing, called 

195
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,200
the odd women. 
And it's, and I suppose an early

196
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,500
feminist novel written in 1892, 
the two of the main characters, 

197
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:55,200
run a secretarial school at the 
time that there was business was

198
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,400
being carried out for the first 
time using type written 

199
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,700
documents. 
So on not only that but you 

200
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:07,800
could do the cables under the 
Atlantic allows you to do 

201
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,700
business for the first time. 
It's so there was this boom in 

202
00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:15,800
employment opportunities for 
stenographers typists. 

203
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:23,800
And a lot of them were women. 
So there were there was this new

204
00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:28,800
area of work for women, okay? 
And and and of course you know, 

205
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,800
a lot of people were against it.
A lot of men didn't like it and 

206
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,500
women were thought to underprice
men. 

207
00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:37,600
So they were they were working 
for less and therefore doing me 

208
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,700
now to jobs and so, it's quite a
controversial subject at the 

209
00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:47,700
time. 
So guessing he You his sister's 

210
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,900
ran a school, so he knew quite a
bit about how that worked. 

211
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:58,000
And also, he knew various 
prominent women who were women, 

212
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,300
suffrage, campaigners mmm-hmm. 
And so, the two things came 

213
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:06,800
together, okay? 
It's to love stories to parallel

214
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,500
love stories. 
It's very good. 

215
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:13,200
And it's funny as well, but 
guessing because he has these 

216
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,700
rather Grim endings and the 
video Do end grimly? 

217
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,400
Yes. 
Is this reputation of being very

218
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:24,100
depressing, right up. 
It's only the anything's, really

219
00:14:24,100 --> 00:14:27,000
the do. 
There's a grin the books. 

220
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,900
Themselves are full of humor and
and he's very, you know, a very 

221
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:37,400
great writer sole obviously mean
gnu grub Street contains the 

222
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:43,200
characters Edwin Reardon and is 
it Jasper Mulvane, The Jasper 

223
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,400
more than that. 
That's right. 

224
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,000
I don't think we spent him quite
correctly in In the bedridden 

225
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,100
series. 
But what you have is a long, 

226
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:54,600
long time ago, I think, more 
than 30 years ago, that Andrew 

227
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,900
Nichols, my co-writer and very 
old friend. 

228
00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:01,900
He said, have you read new grabs
it and I had. 

229
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:06,300
And, and so he put me on to it 
and then I don't know 20 years 

230
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:10,100
went by or something and we're 
doing a column and row and I 

231
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:13,600
were doing a column in the 
guardian, had a real, a weekly 

232
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,300
column written by this Dreadful 
cricketer fictional. 

233
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:17,900
Editor. 
Who Dave pod more? 

234
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:19,600
Yeah. 
And we've been doing it for 

235
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,900
quite a while about about 10 
years I think and the guardian 

236
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:28,400
said would we like to think of a
literary equivalent of the 

237
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:34,600
Dreadful Dave pod more? 
And I failed very self-important

238
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:40,200
failed writer so we came up with
a peaceful then we you know went

239
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,600
back to the office and smashed 
out sort of 750 words of jokes 

240
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:51,600
and we gave him and we Called 
him red because we didn't, you 

241
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,000
know, refer to your grub Street 
in any other way, just just 

242
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,400
called him in Reardon. 
And so, we sent this piece to 

243
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,000
the guardian who were very, very
enthusiastic about the idea 

244
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:04,800
initially, and we sent them this
piece and then heard nothing 

245
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,200
back. 
So we wrote them and said, you 

246
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,700
know, is it? 
He said something you'd like to 

247
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:12,900
change, you know, we're quite 
used to rewriting. 

248
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:16,600
So, you know, do say, if you 
wanted to be different and I'm I

249
00:16:16,608 --> 00:16:19,800
just couldn't get an answer out 
of them so we've thought, you 

250
00:16:19,808 --> 00:16:22,900
know, it often happens. 
It's actually yeah. 

251
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:27,700
Usually when there's no answer 
it is because people it's not 

252
00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:29,500
people to trying to be rude, 
really? 

253
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:31,800
It's just that they can't think 
what to say and they don't want 

254
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,600
to come across as either cruel 
or stupid so they don't say 

255
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,100
anything for you. 
Yeah, it's remarkably common 

256
00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:41,800
anyway, we didn't worry too much
about it and, you know, got on 

257
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,400
with other things. 
And then there was a there was a

258
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:48,900
Christmas party at the BBC and 
Producer young producer will 

259
00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,700
Simon Nichols sidled up to us 
and said, have you gotten a 

260
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:55,700
thing? 
And so the bottom draw creaked 

261
00:16:55,700 --> 00:17:00,700
open at came this this piece 
written supposedly by failed 

262
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:03,600
writer, Ed ridden, and he said, 
put, you know, do that as a 

263
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,400
treatment and I'll put it in and
they immediately liked it and we

264
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,300
were I mean we were we were on 
the air within within a year. 

265
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:17,099
I think just over the years but 
it was very quick Yeah, because 

266
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,500
I Was preparing for this. 
I agonize for about an hour or 

267
00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:25,700
so, to try and Describe Ed to 
people who obviously haven't 

268
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:30,600
heard the show, but I was trying
to draw comparisons legs. 

269
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,600
So lazy, isn't it? 
Trying to draw comparisons with 

270
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,000
other? 
Classic British comedy 

271
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:41,600
characters them which Edward no 
doubt dismiss as an asinine 

272
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,100
Pursuit anyway did the best I 
could come up with it and I 

273
00:17:46,108 --> 00:17:47,200
don't know how you feel about 
this. 

274
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:52,800
It is, is it sort of archetypal,
opportunistic, failure? 

275
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:58,600
These sort of often on the make 
these living off past glories, 

276
00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:01,700
he's often railing against the 
system, which is a little bit 

277
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:05,300
like, bit like victim. 
Drew and space in some respects,

278
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:09,300
but it's also very self-aware 
and aware of his failings and 

279
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,900
quite open about his faults and 
his vices can be quite Shameless

280
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,300
and he's, you know, he's always 
pinching food and stuff like 

281
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:19,300
that from functions. 
Yes, I think that's right. 

282
00:18:19,308 --> 00:18:23,600
And actually, it's very useful 
that that he's so open about it 

283
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,300
and useful to us as writers. 
And, and also another thing, 

284
00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:34,000
which we didn't really spot for 
quite a few years until Somebody

285
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,700
pointed it out, he has no self 
pity and it never occurred to 

286
00:18:37,708 --> 00:18:41,900
us, but he's absolutely right. 
Having no self-pity is quite 

287
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:45,600
appealing because we all stood 
yet, most of us all killed, 

288
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:49,200
sorry for ourselves. 
But I think he, you know, with 

289
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:55,700
Comic characters that run a long
time, you need several things to

290
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:57,700
go for you. 
They the character needs to be 

291
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:03,900
in conflict with the world, with
the physical world and with The 

292
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:06,900
people and their immediate 
circle. 

293
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:11,000
Hmm. 
And also they sort of need to be

294
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,400
in conflict with themselves to 
some extent that they keep 

295
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,500
repeating a pattern of behavior,
that prevents them getting what 

296
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:23,900
they want. 
And you don't absolutely have to

297
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:26,700
have those things, but if you 
want to write a lot of episodes,

298
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:28,700
it's very useful. 
Hmm. 

299
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:33,400
And we sort of hit on that by 
accident, I think the, you know,

300
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,400
he Was, he was his Own Worst 
Enemy and you know enemy had 

301
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,100
many other enemies as well and 
that seemed to be quite useful 

302
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:48,600
and so we don't we don't really 
run out of plots. 

303
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,600
I mean, people might get fed up 
with it and then we might be 

304
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,700
able to do it anymore, but we 
don't really run out of ideas 

305
00:19:55,700 --> 00:20:00,000
because we've we've got such a 
clear idea of the character or 

306
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,200
all we really need to do is put 
him in a Ugly topical situation 

307
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,100
or there might be something 
that's that's happened to Andrew

308
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:11,100
or myself that we recognize as a
potential story. 

309
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,700
But mainly we do we just read 
the papers. 

310
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:19,600
Yeah, I don't know if you've 
read Martin Ames has the 

311
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:25,000
information Which was no, I have
no mid 90s. 

312
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,900
It was the book that he think he
got the biggest advance in 

313
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:30,500
history at that time and he 
managed to get new teeth as a 

314
00:20:30,508 --> 00:20:32,100
result of his teeth. 
Yes, I'm is that? 

315
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,500
Yes, yes. 
But this, the central character 

316
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:37,800
is this failed, author. 
He's a 40 year old book. 

317
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,100
Reviewer editor of a very 
strong. 

318
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,000
Is he is? 
He the ghost writer is he? 

319
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:49,700
Yes, that. 
Yes, and he's desperately 

320
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:53,400
jealous of his more successful. 
For, yes, for my friend, who's 

321
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,500
who writes books? 
But they're very fluffy and he's

322
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:02,500
been a phenomenal success in the
literary, world for writing, 

323
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,900
what Richard toll thinks is drek
essentially. 

324
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:08,600
Yeah. 
And so, I see aspects of Ed in 

325
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,900
that. 
By the way, I noticed that there

326
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,700
is a there was a book published 
in 2014 called who would fardels

327
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:18,400
bear? 
No really. 

328
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:22,900
Yes. 
Novel by someone could send our 

329
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:28,400
motto fairly. 
Well I, if I, yes, I supposed to

330
00:21:28,408 --> 00:21:34,500
feel sorry for a moment. 
She probably sue him just 

331
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,200
because people don't know that. 
That is, that was, that was Ed's

332
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,700
11 brush with success? 
Yes. 

333
00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:44,000
Yes, he got turned into a film. 
Yes, yes, and that, that's how 

334
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,600
we, yeah, but I mean if it's 
not, yeah, the failed writer is 

335
00:21:48,608 --> 00:21:50,800
not is not a new idea by any 
means. 

336
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,500
And That will it Edwin written 
the anti-hero, you grab Street, 

337
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,600
you know, that was 1891. 
That was, that was pretty. 

338
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,600
Yeah. 
Oh absolutely Laura sister. 

339
00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,300
Yeah. 
Wednesday rather like Graham 

340
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,000
Greene working. 
His passage by running guns from

341
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,700
Nicaragua to Liberia or Spain or
wherever it was. 

342
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:12,800
I too used my native cunning to 
Hitch a lift back from tring. 

343
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:15,100
I realized that in order to 
further my promising 

344
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,000
relationship with dr. 
Elaine Drysdale, I was playing a

345
00:22:18,008 --> 00:22:21,900
dangerous game, weaving, a web 
of Deceit by claiming To perform

346
00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:24,600
a one-man show about Graham 
Greene rather than merely 

347
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,600
blowing a jug for the greater 
good of jazz Mill vein and I 

348
00:22:27,608 --> 00:22:29,600
wouldn't even be doing that. 
If I didn't get my teeth fixed 

349
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,800
Pronto, there's no more chewing 
gum either. 

350
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,800
I'll go rat. 
Of course, Martin Amis. 

351
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,900
Only has to write his name on 
the steamed up. 

352
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:43,500
Bathroom window of his Tuscan 
Palazzo for some 

353
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:45,900
twelve-year-old, publisher to 
offer, him half a million quid 

354
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:47,600
to get a set of bespoke 
Choppers. 

355
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,900
But out here in the real world, 
in order to earn the price of an

356
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:53,100
easily. 
Double meal, a writer has to 

357
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:56,200
lecture insubordinate, 
pensioners, every Thursday at 

358
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,700
the University of the third age.
So yes, it's a radio comedy, 

359
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:02,400
obviously been a large part of 
your of your career. 

360
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,800
And I wanted to just to talk to 
you about, obviously, we've 

361
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,400
talked about your part in it, 
but I want to talk to you about 

362
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,900
your thoughts, in terms of radio
comedy in general, find out what

363
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:16,100
you think works, what doesn't 
work what I did? 

364
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:20,400
I revolutions or Eeveelutions 
there have been in the medium 

365
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:22,600
over. 
The last, I suppose, if we, if 

366
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,900
we exclude, it, Mario in the 
wartime years and the mostly 

367
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,800
sort of variety based comedy of 
the 40s, You could argue that 

368
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,300
sort of well, British radio 
comedy began in the 50s, really?

369
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,900
Yeah, I think that's, I think 
that's right. 

370
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:41,300
Yes, I think there was a, there 
was a turning point after the 

371
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:44,100
war really. 
And I, I think we always like to

372
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,200
divide the country. 
Don't we realize that? 

373
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,100
And it sort of seemed to me that
the country did divide a bit. 

374
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,300
You were either hand Cool, all 
the goons in there. 

375
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:58,200
I'm sure there were lots of lots
of people who enjoyed birth, but

376
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,700
I think also what was 
interesting what sort of fired 

377
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:13,800
that new wave of scripted comedy
was the during the war there 

378
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,300
were there were these 
entertainment organizations 

379
00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:19,900
there was Seema and then enter 
that was sort of trying to do 

380
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,300
legitimate. 
Theater and then because of the 

381
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:29,800
need for entertainment anywhere 
of any kind just to take 

382
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,300
people's minds off things and 
Vera Lynn couldn't go 

383
00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:38,000
everywhere. 
They came up with this idea 

384
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,000
called stars in battle dress and
which which enabled which used 

385
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:47,700
regular serving soldiers so it 
meant they could they the 

386
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:50,500
entertainment could take place 
sort of right up to the 

387
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:52,600
Frontline. 
Yeah. 

388
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:58,800
Which answer toes weren't able 
to get that far. 

389
00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:59,800
You know? 
It was thought to be too 

390
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,300
dangerous but stars in battle 
dress, you know, these were 

391
00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:06,300
actually fighting soldiers at 
the time so a lot of the 

392
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:10,200
entertainment was incredibly 
chaotic but it was out of that 

393
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:14,700
not not out of it encircle 
seamer that the really big names

394
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:22,400
of post-war comedy came. 
Yeah, you know people who It 

395
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,900
learned sort of under fairly 
difficult circumstances to write

396
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,300
and perform. 
And even though it wasn't really

397
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:35,700
a movement as such it did, they 
did sort of share this, this 

398
00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:40,500
sort of disrespectful 
impertinent kind of wild 

399
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:45,700
quality, and it wasn't really an
attack on the on the officer 

400
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:49,600
class. 
Although it's in some ways. 

401
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:55,400
It was But it have a kind of 
rebellious streak and I think 

402
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,200
there were three. 
There were three shows that that

403
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,000
happened after the war or maybe 
started during the war that was 

404
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,900
sort of based based on the 
services. 

405
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:09,600
So there was one called Navy 
mixture, I think that's right. 

406
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:13,200
Navy mixture. 
And then the Army one was called

407
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,300
Stand easy. 
And then there was the RAF one, 

408
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:19,300
which I think is better known 
called much binding in the 

409
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:22,900
marsh. 
Yeah, and The even though the 

410
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:26,800
the war was over that, that that
was thought to represent three 

411
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:33,000
important aspects of the 
post-war experience that the pre

412
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,100
Services. 
Yes. 

413
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,500
And even though it was always 
this sort of undercurrent of 

414
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,900
impertinence. 
The targets often the sort of 

415
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:47,900
stupid officer class. 
And is that really struck a 

416
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:53,000
chord with audiences at the time
because The world was changing. 

417
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,600
I mean the irony was that the 
people who came out of stars in 

418
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,800
battle dress and then turn 
professionals as Comics were up 

419
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:05,200
and writers starting to work for
the BBC. 

420
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,000
They then found that the officer
class was running the BBC as 

421
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,100
well as. 
Yeah. 

422
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,700
Stuck with this and they had to 
deal with them again. 

423
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,500
Well Harry. 
See could just on that Harry. 

424
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:19,700
Seeking tells a story of he his 
commanding officer at one point 

425
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:25,500
was Phillips lesser. 
Who did he ever spoke to him 

426
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:27,900
during his command was to 
basically give them a 

427
00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:29,900
bollocking? 
I believe? 

428
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,500
And then several years later 
post-war when how he's doing 

429
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:37,600
variety Phillips lesser, I'm not
sure it's easy MC or presenter 

430
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,200
or announcer, or something. 
He's in some way. 

431
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,700
I know the name and I can't 
quite. 

432
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:43,100
Yes, I can't quite remember what
it was. 

433
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,400
Yeah. 
And I'm going to sound really 

434
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,600
ill prepared saying this, but 
no, but he's, he's presenting 

435
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,200
Harry seek him on the Radio, I 
think and described him as my 

436
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,000
old army friend and Harry said, 
he sort of came out and kind of 

437
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,000
gave him a wry Smile as if to 
say, you know. 

438
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:03,100
Yeah. 
Right mate. 

439
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:04,800
Yeah yeah. 
Yeah. 

440
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:07,600
He wrote about it. 
Didn't he wrote a novel about 

441
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,100
about that period of his life. 
What was it called? 

442
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:14,100
Heresy camera. 
Took twice brightly. 

443
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:14,900
I think. 
Yes he did. 

444
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:16,400
Yes, that's right. 
Yes. 

445
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,500
Yeah. 
And it's got a long time since I

446
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:22,400
really be there. 
It's sort of Just about that 

447
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,300
that world of digging around and
staying in digs and that, you 

448
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:32,700
know, that, that sort of that 
rather Grim time in some ways. 

449
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,200
He yeah, yes. 
But he was actually quite 

450
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,600
successful. 
Quite yes, please. 

451
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,400
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

452
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:41,400
Because he was making the 
equivalent of nearly four grand.

453
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,900
Today's money a month at the 
Windmill. 

454
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:47,200
Yeah. 
But he was doing six days. 

455
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,500
It was it six. 
Six shows a day. 

456
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:51,000
Six days a week. 
Something like that. 

457
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:54,900
Yeah. 
Yeah shaving shaving here but 

458
00:28:54,900 --> 00:29:02,800
that there's a very good book. 
By Barry took called laughter in

459
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:09,400
the air about those years. 
Hmm and we you you mentioned 

460
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,700
that, you know, the money he was
earning and that he I'm sure, 

461
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:18,300
you know, do his research and he
said that Peter Sellers was 

462
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:26,800
earning He quit a week I think 
in about nineteen fifty-one 52 

463
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:34,400
and that's a lot of money isn't 
seen happen, seems the and a BBC

464
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,200
producer. 
So the guy who's producing the 

465
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,600
shows he was in, would have 
earned seven hundred pounds a 

466
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,900
year. 
So that was a different kind of 

467
00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:48,800
relationship. 
What what we have now, which is 

468
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:52,700
the reverse in the, you know, 
staff, Adduser the BBC and many 

469
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:54,300
many times. 
What? 

470
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:57,700
What the writers? 
Yeah for Mirza. 

471
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:03,600
So it's just a completely 
different world and it it is 

472
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,600
much more sort of producer LED 
rather than Talent lead. 

473
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,000
Is it was perhaps in those days 
when he thought he was. 

474
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:14,000
I mean, I'm sure I'm sure 
there's some exaggeration on 

475
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,500
that figure, that seems 
ludicrous money to be making. 

476
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:20,800
Maybe 700 was a 750 a month, 
maybe they'll be fine. 

477
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,100
Well, No. 
I mean it's about item any just 

478
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:28,900
quoting from this book but there
was you know radio was was the 

479
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:31,100
big medium, wasn't it in those 
days. 

480
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:38,900
So it it that was where the big 
money was he was he was never 

481
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:42,000
not working from the middle of 
48 when he began on Showtime 

482
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,000
which was his first radio 
appearance, it just snowballed 

483
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,200
his career is he just he was on 
everything to the point where he

484
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,700
was like As Gordon was for a 
period of time, you know, 

485
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:56,900
everywhere producers were sort 
of being told, you know, lay 

486
00:30:56,900 --> 00:30:58,500
off. 
You know, don't stop booking 

487
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:02,400
sellers so much. 
Yeah, I mean, it mother ended 

488
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,200
when Tommy handy died in 49 and 
then it was the atmos lot was 

489
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,400
taken by raised a laugh, which 
was sellers first. 

490
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,200
It wasn't as first Ensemble 
comedy, but it was his first 

491
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,500
regular Comedy series. 
Yeah, that he thought he was in 

492
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:20,900
until what 54. 
I think it was on that. 

493
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,100
Yeah, it's a tram for a long 
time. 

494
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:26,000
Didn't it laughing? 
Yeah. 

495
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:30,200
So you're not I mean I know 
you're not particularly huge 

496
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,900
goon fan but you must have had 
some exposure to them Growing Up

497
00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:38,300
doll. 
Despite oh yes I mean yes I was 

498
00:31:38,300 --> 00:31:43,000
probably just that. 
I remember them very very well 

499
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,300
but probably it was repeats by 
them. 

500
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:49,000
I think it fit didn't finish in.
When did it finished 59 or 

501
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,600
something? 
January 60. 60. 

502
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:54,700
Yeah, yeah. 
So, I know, yeah, it's probably 

503
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:58,200
a bit younger to to hear them 
live but they started repeating 

504
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,200
them pretty much immediately I 
think and that, you know, I 

505
00:32:01,208 --> 00:32:06,600
remember it being on and but I, 
yes, I suppose. 

506
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:13,600
I am very interested in the in 
the period And how that so came 

507
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,300
to be made and It was irreverent
in in it, you know, but not in a

508
00:32:19,308 --> 00:32:25,300
sort of satirical way. 
Really work it in the way that 

509
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:32,400
that perhaps Hancock was. 
But well, yeah, you say that one

510
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,200
of the things that I'm finding 
doing this podcast, is because 

511
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,400
I'm relisting, because I used to
listen to the goons as a 

512
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,400
teenager. 
To an obsessive level to attend,

513
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,400
dangerously obsessive level and 
then I sort of eased off and 

514
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,700
moved on to other things as I, 
as I left my teens, I'm now in 

515
00:32:51,708 --> 00:32:57,300
my late forties, and I've been 
reimbursing myself in the Goon 

516
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:00,100
show and re-listening to the 
shows, but I've been relisting 

517
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:05,100
to the fully restored versions 
where a lot of the deleted 

518
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:09,100
material that had the edited 
versions of the shows were the 

519
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:11,900
ones that were typically 
repeated or so. 

520
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:16,200
Out to overseas radio stations 
and they would remove topical 

521
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,600
references and racially 
insensitive references often or 

522
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,900
they're not always. 
But it's amazing listening to 

523
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:29,600
these fully restored shows how 
much topical stuff and how much 

524
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:35,500
satirical stuff Spike and Larry 
and his other co-creators put 

525
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:37,500
into the the shows, you know. 
Hello. 

526
00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:50,200
Calling satellites Egan. 
I beg of you. 

527
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:52,300
A rocket is on its way to bring 
you down. 

528
00:33:52,300 --> 00:34:01,600
Hold on. 
I did some presenting for for 

529
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,200
extra, you know them, they do a 
whole evenings of sort of 

530
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:08,000
vintage comedy shows. 
Yeah. 

531
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:14,400
And I found that this presenting
job was actually quite a lot 

532
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,300
more work than I thought it was 
going to be because I thought I 

533
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:22,699
was just going to introduce the 
shows and then 28 minutes put my

534
00:34:22,699 --> 00:34:26,600
feet up and then rise another 
link into the next show. 

535
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:30,400
But some of these vintage 
comedies have to have so much 

536
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,300
cut out of them that some of 
them were running at about 12 

537
00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:37,100
minutes. 
So I would have to make apps 

538
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:43,600
that have 16 minutes and Lincoln
So, I gave up absolutely 

539
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,600
exhausted after doing about four
of these for these nights of 

540
00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:51,400
vintage comedy. 
I'm not sure there was a 

541
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,199
producer whose job it was to 
take out all the all the 

542
00:34:56,199 --> 00:35:01,500
contentious stuff and it was 
mainly goons and round the horn,

543
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,000
but those were the two shows 
that would that would cut, they 

544
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,300
were over there, rather shows 
that were just they didn't 

545
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,000
bother to write. 
Very, very much of a script. 

546
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,000
So it sort of ended after about 
20 minutes. 

547
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,500
But the good, the certainly, the
goons and round, the horn would 

548
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,500
now have to have a great deal 
taken out. 

549
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,500
I mean, they were woke times in 
other in other respects because 

550
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:34,000
there was this thing called the 
green book, the BBC green book 

551
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,400
with was a list of things that 
you weren't allowed to do. 

552
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:44,800
And, you know, there are some of
them are quite odd. 

553
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,500
You know, things you, you 
weren't allowed to say, no 

554
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:52,200
politics at all. 
You were never allowed to do any

555
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:55,500
impressions of of anyone you 
couldn't. 

556
00:35:57,500 --> 00:35:59,600
You couldn't do the things. 
You couldn't refer to like 

557
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,600
lodges or commercial Travelers. 
Yes, that's right. 

558
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,500
And you won't know how to use 
the phrase winter draws on know 

559
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,700
exactly. 
Exactly. 

560
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:15,400
And yes, yes, said nothing that 
sort of appeared to approve of 

561
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,300
drinking. 
So you wouldn't be allowed to 

562
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:21,700
say, let's have one for the road
because it would encourage 

563
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:28,100
alcoholism and and not only no 
jokes about politics, but you 

564
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:30,900
couldn't have a politician on 
the show. 

565
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,900
You couldn't have an MP on the 
show because it would, it would 

566
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,700
be undignified for a member of 
Parliament. 

567
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:41,700
To take part in the comedy show.
So you got, I mean, I don't 

568
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,500
suppose it was a problem that 
often, I mean, it would be now 

569
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:47,200
because a lot of them peace 
appear on company chosen there. 

570
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,100
But so you always have to have 
the permission of a person. 

571
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:53,900
If you can do an impression of 
them is that pretty much ruled 

572
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:58,400
it out. 
And but then there were things 

573
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:04,600
suddenly the addition of it that
I've got which is 1949 this 

574
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:11,100
there was some good news because
you could now say, Um, nylon and

575
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,700
zip and thermos, which I think 
the myosin. 

576
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,700
Yes, sir. 
Boss prior to 1949. 

577
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:21,300
That was that, you know, you 
just couldn't do that. 

578
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,000
So, this is quite weird, only I 
interviewed you remember, the 

579
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,000
great writer of the aldwych 
farce has been Travis. 

580
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:32,400
Yes. 
Yes. 

581
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,000
Yeah. 
And he said that and he knows 

582
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,800
when he was working, you'd have 
to go To the Lord Chamberlain's 

583
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,300
office to present your script 
and some you know retired 

584
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:47,200
Brigadier General would make you
change things. 

585
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,600
You know. 
And then Travis said that he'd 

586
00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:56,900
there was a scene where somebody
may be set in a sort of changing

587
00:37:56,900 --> 00:38:02,600
room sports sports changing 
room, this scene and a bloke 

588
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,300
went one of the characters went 
to get it. 

589
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:11,400
So I'm just going to get a towel
And the Lord Chamberlain's 

590
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,400
office said, well you have to 
take that out page 48, what's 

591
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,500
wrong with the towel and then, 
try to support what was wrong 

592
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,300
with the towel as I said? 
Oh, come on, I was born 

593
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:27,600
yesterday, you know, take it 
out. 

594
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:29,800
So he said, all right, of 
course. 

595
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,500
Yes. 
Okay, so what you know what have

596
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:33,400
happened in this guy's life 
that? 

597
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,700
Yeah, made the reference to a 
towels. 

598
00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:41,600
That such an inflammatory think,
maybe they were maybe as a 

599
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,400
younger man, he was getting his 
bare buttocks, flicked by towels

600
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,700
in the dryer and it must be 
something on this night. 

601
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:48,500
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

602
00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:49,200
Yeah. 
That's it. 

603
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Yeah. 
I think you got it there. 

604
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,000
Yeah. 
What are the things when you? 

605
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,700
And I were communicating about 
coming, you coming on the show, 

606
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:59,600
you made it. 
Fantastic point that I hadn't 

607
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,200
thought about until you pointed 
it out. 

608
00:39:02,700 --> 00:39:07,800
Is you said that the 50s Just 
paraphrasing you in the 50s, was

609
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,600
the only decade in modern 
British comedy in which the 

610
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,800
officer class didn't really 
figure. 

611
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

612
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,500
And they were they were sort of 
figures of fun, but it was just 

613
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:26,100
this incredible outpouring of 
talent that came from serving 

614
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:31,400
soldiers during the war that, 
you know, they kind of claimed 

615
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:37,700
it became the territory. 
Yes, I suppose. 

616
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:41,900
They were, it's not that it was 
all, it was all sort of working 

617
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:46,000
class, knockabout comedy, but, 
you know, Of it was really 

618
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,500
sophisticated. 
And if you think of mirror and 

619
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:54,200
norden's work on take it from 
here. 

620
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,800
Mmm. 
This is some of it was was 

621
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,500
really quite literally and and 
because it went on for a rather 

622
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:07,700
long time take it from here for 
people of my generation it the 

623
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:11,300
keynote singing the theme tune, 
you know for take it from here. 

624
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:16,400
It was slightly depressing sort 
of reminded you of sort of 

625
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:21,200
overcooked lamb and crinkle cut 
carrots, you know that and but 

626
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,600
actually when iI ghosted June 
Whitfield sorcerer biography and

627
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,700
she was in take it from here for
ya many years. 

628
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:31,900
And so I thought well I better 
get to grips with this show that

629
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:35,700
I've never really liked very 
much and I started looking at it

630
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,800
and reading the scripts and I 
thought this is so good and it's

631
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,500
it's it's clever and it's 
literary. 

632
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:51,100
There's a clear Road leading to 
Monty Python of sort of literary

633
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:58,000
surreal. 
Mad humor, it would be even 

634
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:04,900
though Buzz sort of, you're not 
Norden, were were part of that 

635
00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:09,900
generation of people who'd been 
in the, in the war they were 

636
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:13,900
sort of, as they all did, they 
sort of Forge their own their 

637
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:17,700
own cause Course, yes, they kind
of get overlooked golden and 

638
00:41:17,700 --> 00:41:21,500
Simpson tend to get the the 
Kudos that perhaps, you were 

639
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:24,000
Norden. 
Don't so much. 

640
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

641
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:30,200
But I was I was amazed when I 
was doing June Whitfield. 

642
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:35,800
Hmm, autobiography, I've got 
some tapes of take it from here 

643
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,900
and and I was but my stepkids 
who had very little interest in 

644
00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:47,500
radio, comedy is fit to say. 
I just love these ronon, F the 

645
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:50,300
plums, yes. 
In, take it from here. 

646
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,800
I thought these sort of cool 
Metropolitan kids laughing at 

647
00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:00,800
the gloves who Yeah, do you 
remember remember Bruce Forsyth 

648
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,900
failed show in the late? 
70s Called Bruce, has big night 

649
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:05,700
out or something? 
Yeah. 

650
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:09,200
And they did it again, then they
did with but it wasn't June. 

651
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,100
Whitfield was Patricia break, 
just a very yes. 

652
00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:14,600
That's right. 
Yeah, I think June was a bit 

653
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,000
upset that they didn't ask her 
to do it and you know what? 

654
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,000
Obviously quite a quite a bit of
time has gone by and that's why 

655
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,200
they got they got Somebody was 
the right age but actually I 

656
00:42:28,207 --> 00:42:30,200
think it would have worked 
better if they just died. 

657
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,800
It was Dick badly. 
Still still alive in the center 

658
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,800
but not sure. 
But you know they did it with 

659
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,700
the carry-ons Barbara Windsor 
was playing, you know, playing 

660
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:47,500
the the the Juve lead it you 
know, wanted to 50s happen but 

661
00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:49,400
that was part of the fun. 
Yeah. 

662
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,600
So I think they actually missed 
the trick there with not not 

663
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,300
bringing when they brought the 
guns back, not having June 

664
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:03,700
Mimicry and her singing, you 
know, she's always remembered as

665
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:05,700
a sort of Terry Scott's feed, 
you know. 

666
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:07,500
But I mean, she's absolutely 
brilliant. 

667
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:09,500
She could dance. 
You could her sing some of the 

668
00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:13,100
records she made in the 50s. 
Absolutely wonderful singing 

669
00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:17,700
voice. 
And and the mimicry was 

670
00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:22,200
incredibly is incredibly skilled
and all the voices she did on on

671
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,800
Take it from here. 
And it was mainly because 

672
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,700
everybody loved The F Glam, the 
character that she played but 

673
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:35,700
she did many many others, she 
just he based the character of 

674
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,900
Earth on they had to get their 
had a cleaning lady her and her 

675
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:47,500
mother and that was her voice 
and she's the woman never 

676
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:50,400
realized. 
And she sustained in touch with 

677
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,400
June and followed her career 
with interest and and 

678
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,200
particularly the gloves and she 
She dropped around, so I love 

679
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,500
that show. 
It's amazing. 

680
00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:01,000
You know, people to really talk 
like that. 

681
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,700
I've met people who don't like 
that. 

682
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:04,900
Oh, I know. 
Yeah. 

683
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:08,200
Would you June was Jim's 
involved? 

684
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,000
Briefly tangentially with the 
goons? 

685
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,800
And that while she she appeared 
in the idiot weekly price 

686
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:20,400
tuppence which was their first 
foray into television ITV, 1950s

687
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,400
6. 
Yeah. 

688
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,500
Then don't know if you know 
about this just not long before 

689
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:29,700
He died. 
Peter Sellers made a record 

690
00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:32,600
while he put out a record called
seller's market which was one of

691
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,000
his you do comedy, LPS, and I'm 
not coming before his off the 

692
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,900
back of that or it was around 
that time that he recorded a 

693
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:46,000
song comedy song in the 
character of Fred Kite from. 

694
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,500
I'm all right jack. 
So he was he was repressing that

695
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:56,000
character in 1979 and he had 
June Whitfield and the the Seek 

696
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,600
was that it was June, Whitfield 
was playing Margaret Thatcher. 

697
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,000
I think it was called something 
like what about the workers? 

698
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,400
And it was just a satirical 
comedy song. 

699
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,400
Okay, in June Whitfield does a 
very good Margaret Thatcher on 

700
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:14,400
it, and it was due to go out was
due to be released or it was due

701
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,400
to go out on the lp and then 
sellers had it removed and we 

702
00:45:19,408 --> 00:45:24,700
don't know exactly why. 
But the theory is that, that 

703
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:28,700
just got into power and sellers 
was hoping for a Knighthood. 

704
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:35,300
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Well she said she had a You 

705
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:40,500
remembered it more clearly that 
maybe she said she has just had 

706
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:43,300
a very nice time in Paris 
because she went out there to 

707
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:46,400
record it and sellers wasn't 
ready. 

708
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,200
So today's shopping and the next
day, he wasn't ready so that day

709
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,400
so I see her husband Tim so she 
had to quite fuck better piece 

710
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,000
of it. 
But I said I said, I said I said

711
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,700
into question about it so what 
was what you know, what was he 

712
00:46:00,700 --> 00:46:02,500
like? 
And then she would say was he 

713
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:05,600
was a were right. 
I couldn't really do much with 

714
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:14,000
that. 
Are you more of a Hancock fan? 

715
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,700
Or did you not have a 
particular? 

716
00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:22,400
I asked I suppose. 
Yes, I sort of fell into doing 

717
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,100
radio, comedy, really just threw
my friendship with with Andrew 

718
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:30,300
and then there's with Nick 
Newman. 

719
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,400
And yes I'd always sort of 
worked in CS it really? 

720
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,100
And and obviously as an actor in
TV as well. 

721
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:44,300
But so I didn't I didn't have a 
childhood where I was, I was 

722
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:48,700
added Lee listening to all the 
latest video comedies and I 

723
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:54,500
still don't really but I I'm I'm
just interested in that in that 

724
00:46:54,500 --> 00:47:00,200
post war period because this new
wave of comedy writers and 

725
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,900
performers, I just think it's 
such an interesting time. 

726
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:11,300
And, you know, after the in the 
60s, when the gentleman from 

727
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:16,500
Cambridge took over comedy, mmm,
it all changed. 

728
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:22,100
But there was this, this time in
the 50s where it was, I don't 

729
00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:26,400
know, it was like sort of 
Shakespeare's time or something 

730
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,800
when anybody could just write 
stuff and, you know, you didn't,

731
00:47:29,900 --> 00:47:31,700
you didn't have to have gone to 
Cambridge. 

732
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:37,200
You mentioned about came I know 
that Europe in Edinburgh, what 

733
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,400
early 80s around the time of the
first period, a award, I 

734
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,600
believe? 
Yeah, we it was the first Perry 

735
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:49,800
award and our show which is just
a sketch show, cool, theatrical 

736
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:56,600
digs. 
And we came second in the 

737
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,600
Perrier award the, the winners 
were Stephen Fry and Emma 

738
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,000
Thompson Hugh Laurie with their 
this sketch. 

739
00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:13,100
Joe and and we came second and 
the first prize was a week at 

740
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:16,100
the new End theater in 
Hampstead. 

741
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,000
And the second prize was really 
was two weeks at the new end. 

742
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,900
Absolutely. 
So they did that. 

743
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:31,600
We can we did, we did two weeks 
although I sort of came late to 

744
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,900
it it because my, My parents, 
but my mother father and 

745
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:41,800
stepfather were all in the same 
business. 

746
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:47,000
And so I did, I was sort of 
immersed in it from quite an 

747
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,200
early agent and my stepfather 
actually worked. 

748
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,900
He was, he was a resident stage 
Manager At The Fortune theater. 

749
00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:58,900
Whether used to record the 
Hancock episodes, all right. 

750
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:05,500
And so he worked on on many, 
dozens of Hancock radio shows, 

751
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,700
right? 
And I are having lunch with him 

752
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:14,700
once at the Nell Gwyn Pub in 
Drury Lane and he said, we were 

753
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:17,100
just sitting on one of the sort 
of red velvet benches. 

754
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,900
And he said, oh I remember 
sitting here in exactly. 

755
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:25,000
Exactly this booth with with 
Hancock and golden and Simpson 

756
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,500
when they were we used to do 
recordings and presumably, they 

757
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:31,000
did them on Sunday because the 
theater was dark on Sunday. 

758
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,000
I don't know. 
And I said what it what? 

759
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,800
Oh god, I didn't know you never 
told me this. 

760
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,700
What was it? 
Like, you know, what were they 

761
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:42,600
like? 
What what what they talked about

762
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,200
and and he just said earlier, 
just moaned about money and that

763
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,300
was the one thing you didn't 
need to tell me because I have 

764
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:54,100
just could have guessed that, 
but he also worked on the army 

765
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:57,600
game and messmates. 
I think it was called, was the 

766
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,600
Navy version of that. 
And I remember going to his 

767
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,300
Studio singing, pouring a bucket
of flour over someone's head. 

768
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,200
That loon or somebody cover it 
and then he became a TV 

769
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,400
director. 
So what when I was child, I saw 

770
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:18,700
all these shows that he made 
being recorded and in fact, I 

771
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:25,400
actually I suppose my first job 
was when I was about eight and I

772
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:31,300
worked the roller captions for a
tww show called land of song, 

773
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:37,200
which was It was all in Welsh 
and it was a musical show that 

774
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,900
used to go out and Sunday night.
And in those days you you either

775
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:42,900
had to if you wanted to show 
that went out and Sunday night, 

776
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:47,200
I have to be religious or 
musical, so they got rounded 

777
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,400
that way. 
So it had all these vast numbers

778
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,400
of viewers because it wasn't 
religious, the only show that 

779
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,700
wasn't an interest and I worked 
the roller captions on the on 

780
00:50:57,700 --> 00:51:02,800
the end of that. 
And that's because I don't you 

781
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,800
know that But my mother was the 
stage manager on it and 

782
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,000
stepfather directing it. 
So I just went and sat in the 

783
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,600
studio then you know they got me
doing things so I suppose I sort

784
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,800
of immersed in Showbiz from 
quite an early age. 

785
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:22,000
Yes I did. 
Sometimes that the you when 

786
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:28,100
we're making radio shows you if 
it gets a bit sound effect e you

787
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:31,000
like the footsteps of something 
is and I was saying this thing 

788
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,400
I'm working on the moment, I was
saying to my producer. 

789
00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:38,000
Jane Morgan. 
I've got a scene where there was

790
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,600
a woman going up and down the 
steps and she needs to do that 

791
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,400
for the plot. 
She needs to deliver a letter 

792
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:46,300
and I said, I maybe we generally
don't need to actually play this

793
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:49,600
in real time because it's a bit 
like the moonship up and down 

794
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,500
the steps, you know, and she 
told me that she was did spot 

795
00:51:54,500 --> 00:52:01,700
effects for radio programs in 
the 60s and she had been taught 

796
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:06,500
by the person whose is spot. 
On the green chat and imagine 

797
00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:09,300
there were several of them. 
Yeah, I don't know, baby. 

798
00:52:09,300 --> 00:52:12,500
I mean, because it ran for so 
long, it probably wouldn't be in

799
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:17,000
just one person, but there was 
one person who was at obviously 

800
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,100
had a rapport with Milligan 
because when it said you know, 

801
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,300
the character has to climb 5423 
steps, he would actually do 

802
00:52:27,300 --> 00:52:29,800
that. 
Come on men. 

803
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:32,700
Let's go out the top and trim 
the Wicks. 

804
00:52:32,700 --> 00:53:17,300
Come on. 
Enemy script writer named Spike.

805
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:20,600
Milligan gave me two guineas to 
take a long time. 

806
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:25,100
Walking up these steps. 
He said it helped him in his 

807
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:31,100
work. 
Yes, I know now men like the 

808
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:36,800
weeks. 
Stu hurry. 

809
00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:45,700
I'm brave light a warning to do 
Sailors, who seal the stormy 

810
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:49,000
seas. 
Never mind about them in pull 

811
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:59,300
the blinds, we don't want people
looking in And if they see this 

812
00:53:59,300 --> 00:54:02,300
like that all night mean, they 
think we've been having sinful 

813
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:12,300
midnight, Ludo party. 
Was that the first sort of 

814
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,600
Comedy sound effects? 
It work. 

815
00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:16,900
The weren't aiming for 
verisimilitude, were they? 

816
00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:20,200
And then it was part of the 
show, wasn't it? 

817
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,800
And it has to sound right had to
be funny in its own right? 

818
00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:27,700
Yeah, yeah. 
And I mean they did been pretty 

819
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:32,000
bog standard sound effects prior
to the goons footsteps on 

820
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,700
gravel, things like that, door 
opening, and shutting and then 

821
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,000
yes Spike was asking for 
increasingly asking for More 

822
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,100
outlandish sounds and very often
you know, the for the sound of a

823
00:54:45,100 --> 00:54:47,600
door knocking he'd have hit one.
In the script, would say a 

824
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,400
telephone rings. 
That's the sound of a door 

825
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,000
knocking, you know? 
Yeah, he played with the for. 

826
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,300
Yeah, and of course, towards the
end of the Goon Show run, they 

827
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:57,700
started using the radio phonic 
Workshop, guys. 

828
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,600
See her getting more and more 
sophisticated sounds. 

829
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:05,300
You talk about sound effects as 
you know, speaking to Margaret 

830
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,500
cable and Smith recently. 
Yeah, to her part. 

831
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,800
And the play about Spike and she
plays the spot effects lady in 

832
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,300
that. 
Yeah, that that's right. 

833
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:20,900
Yeah, we Nick and I we wrote a 
treatment for what we wanted to 

834
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:28,800
a sitcom set in Nelson's Navy 
and because we we just been 

835
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,800
doing a show called mastering 
the universe with Dawn French, 

836
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:39,000
we have the sound effects person
called, as MacKenzie's been 

837
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,800
doing it for quite a long. 
Time and in fact, she's done 

838
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,600
spot on Ed Reardon and beauty of
Britain and probably about 100 

839
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,600
shows that. 
Hmm, I've written and so Nick 

840
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,500
and I wanted her as a cat, not 
specifically, but a spot effect 

841
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,900
person as a character, just so, 
it's a good character. 

842
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:02,200
And so, he noticed he did it in 
his Spike. 

843
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:03,400
Milligan play. 
Yes. 

844
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,000
And I also did, he did my 
Tristram Shandy adaptation. 

845
00:56:07,300 --> 00:56:10,700
So the idea, my Tristram Shandy 
one was That the at Simon 

846
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:13,400
Russell Beale playing, Tristram 
Shandy it, misses his flight 

847
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,400
from Corfu. 
So the sound effects person has 

848
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,300
to play Tristram Shandy and so 
that is so we must done this 

849
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,400
both from this character in 
slightly different ways but when

850
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:30,900
I first started doing play radio
plays as an actor, I was on the 

851
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:34,500
radio repping in the early 
eighties and we would still 

852
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:39,800
using the Studio's a big radio 
drama Studios at B&H and They 

853
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:46,100
were purpose-built with trays of
gravel, one Studio, B12 B13 

854
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,400
current, which were had a 
drawbridge, so if you could have

855
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,000
a medieval battle that ended how
many players need to draw 

856
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,300
bridge, but that they have that 
there and then steps with 

857
00:56:57,300 --> 00:56:59,800
different kinds of boards and 
concrete. 

858
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,400
And there was some sound effects
that were left over. 

859
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,500
I guess from when the building 
opened in 1932 whenever it was 

860
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:13,400
here, And there was a car door 
slam, which was clearly an art 

861
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,100
deco design. 
It was a pink metal door on a, 

862
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:22,100
on a pink wooden sort of plinth 
card, or on a wooden print. 

863
00:57:22,100 --> 00:57:28,100
So, if somebody got out of a car
in a radio, play in the 1980s, 

864
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:31,400
slammed the door. 
It would have been this this 

865
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:36,100
vintage sound effect and some of
them were you thought why are 

866
00:57:36,107 --> 00:57:39,000
you still doing these? 
You know what, why don't you 

867
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,300
sort of Make me sound a bit more
realistic but I guess it took a 

868
00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:46,800
while to change. 
When I with Nigel planer, we 

869
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:52,000
wrote this character called 
Nicholas crazes and act radio 

870
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,200
series and we wanted it to sound
quite realistic. 

871
00:57:57,100 --> 00:58:02,500
We recorded some bits and and it
really was the getting old LP of

872
00:58:02,500 --> 00:58:06,900
a cat meowing or something, you 
know, whatever you want it and 

873
00:58:06,900 --> 00:58:11,600
it just sounded so antique. 
And so in the end the producer 

874
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,300
said just gave us a tape 
recorder and simple go away and 

875
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:20,000
make it yourself which we did in
it ever since then, I've tended 

876
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,500
to record things on location 
because I just think it sounds a

877
00:58:23,508 --> 00:58:26,300
bit more realistic. 
Oh, just on that. 

878
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,300
Okay, who does alga the cat? 
Thank you. 

879
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:39,900
We hold auditions every every 
series and I had I think the 

880
00:58:39,900 --> 00:58:43,300
produced piece is kind to me. 
I always seem to get the 

881
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:45,500
apartment. 
I think. 

882
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:49,100
I think it's entirely Fair 
competition and it isn't Jenny 

883
00:58:49,100 --> 00:58:52,300
Agutter. 
Did did a really good I thought 

884
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:54,600
husband's actually does better 
than mine but the producer 

885
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,900
loyally stuck to to my video. 
But I've got, actually, I got as

886
00:58:58,900 --> 00:59:02,300
I talk to you. 
Now, I've got remember the days 

887
00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:05,100
of the The Message Board, the 
radio for Message Board. 

888
00:59:05,100 --> 00:59:08,700
Yes. 
And I've got, this is abusive 

889
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:15,500
message that a man sent to me 
called Hamp sing you a 14-6 25 

890
00:59:15,500 --> 00:59:18,400
forums called. 
And, and he said, posted this 

891
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,200
message epic. 
The bloody cat. 

892
00:59:21,300 --> 00:59:23,900
It only has one meow for every 
occasion. 

893
00:59:24,100 --> 00:59:28,000
Two s's in occasion, either. 
Hire an actor who can do cats or

894
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,200
record a real one, it's 
embarrassing. 

895
00:59:31,100 --> 00:59:33,800
But poor Elgar having his line. 
Mouth by an idiot. 

896
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:35,700
So I've got that framed in my 
office. 

897
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:42,300
Has you tied to the ready for 
message boards? 

898
00:59:42,300 --> 00:59:45,000
In two episodes of the show, 
didn't you? 

899
00:59:45,008 --> 00:59:52,400
Because it Stan Used to write 
vaguely threatening messages in 

900
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:53,100
the show. 
Yes, Leon. 

901
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:57,500
It's what a very long, did they?
And I think that the probably 

902
00:59:57,500 --> 01:00:00,000
shut them down because they were
mainly just abusive went and 

903
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,000
yeah but I mean any lasted a 
couple of years I think that 

904
01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:08,700
yeah and everybody just does it 
on Twitter than to it's a 

905
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:14,500
science right but no but listen 
Christopher thank you so much 

906
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:19,500
for agreeing to Talk to to me 
and what if you see got 

907
01:00:19,500 --> 01:00:23,700
obviously you've got the the odd
women that's is that sort of in 

908
01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:27,200
production now or not, not 
quite, I think it will be within

909
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,700
the next month or so. 
Yeah. 

910
01:00:28,900 --> 01:00:30,900
Okay. 
What else have you got coming 

911
01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:32,700
up? 
That's it. 

912
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:35,200
Really, that's it. 
Okay, there's talk of another 

913
01:00:35,300 --> 01:00:39,300
another series of it but yeah, I
don't know when we when quite 

914
01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:43,700
when we do that. 
Okay, imagine Ed would not 

915
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:45,100
particularly been a goon show 
Fanny. 

916
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,000
I fancy. 
He'd have been more of a The 

917
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:51,500
horn then, what do you think? 
Yes, I think, I think that's 

918
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:53,900
right. 
Yes, I mean he would want it 

919
01:00:53,900 --> 01:00:55,600
would never be as simple as 
that, you know? 

920
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,000
He they would be at an angle on 
it. 

921
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,700
I think because, you know, Marty
Feldman and bought him a pint or

922
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:06,700
something, what, you know? 
Yes, it wouldn't be just a 

923
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,300
straightforward affection. 
He find the goons a bit tiresome

924
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:15,500
and I do. 
Yes, thanks again to Christopher

925
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:20,700
all 50 episodes, so far of this 
podcast. 

926
01:01:20,700 --> 01:01:23,500
Yes, there are 50. 
Now, they're all available in 

927
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:26,400
the usual podcast places. 
So please seek those out. 

928
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,500
If you haven't already heard 
them in the meantime, I will be 

929
01:01:29,500 --> 01:01:32,800
back next week with another 
special guest until then. 

930
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,300
Take care of yourselves, stay 
safe by