1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,160 And today, we're going to talk about everybody's favorite 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,680 topic, aliens. You see, the world is alive and 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,320 it manifests in all kinds of ways. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,239 Why shouldn't there be beings who live in forests? 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,240 Why shouldn't there be beings of the air? 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,000 You know, just like in the old days, they talked about these 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,120 things. I think it's my my primary 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,400 interest is is in what it does to my mind. 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,080 In a form that protects us from this nonsense. 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,120 So why would we want to invite in the very thing we're actually 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,920 asking to be kept out right to? To be pacified and regulated. 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,920 It's not spacemen, it's not people coming from other worlds 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,480 that may have happened, and it may occasionally happen. 14 00:00:46,480 --> 00:01:00,960 Such things are possible. Welcome back to the Denver's 15 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,160 Ocean podcast. I'm here once again with Joseph 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,400 Wagner, and today we're going to talk about everybody's favorite 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,880 topic, aliens. I know this has been big in the 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,600 world of always, actually for a long time, since the 1950s at 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,680 least, but really big these days. 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,120 There's a lot about disclosure. There's a lot of videos coming 21 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,680 out, a lot of different scientists and military people 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,520 talking about this. There's 100% something going on, 23 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,000 you know, even the government's admitting it at this point. 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,640 So I think it's worth getting into this and, and Joe and I and 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,520 several others in the alien community that I enjoy actually 26 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,880 think that this has something more to do with consciousness 27 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:47,480 than it has to do with little green men. 28 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,320 So maybe Joe, you'd be willing to introduce this topic and how 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,880 you got into it and and kind of how you see it. 30 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,760 Hello everyone. Hello, Damian. 31 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,720 I, I resisted this at first talking about this because we're 32 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,120 not, there's so much weird stuff about aliens. 33 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,720 And so since most of the people who watch this thing are 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,840 interested in practice, but the world is, is inundated right 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,800 now, as Damien said, with stuff about aliens and 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,160 extraterrestrials and all kinds of baloney. 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,600 It's important to have like a practice viewpoint, you know, 38 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,480 and hopefully we'll be able to give some information in this 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,800 that will help you come up with a practice viewpoint that works 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,480 for you. And it's a more complex and more 41 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,400 interesting topic than most people think. 42 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,280 Most people think UFOs, people come from, you know, close 43 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,200 encounters, They're on Alpha Centauri, they're flying here. 44 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:47,600 I think this is the most absurd view anyone can possibly have. 45 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,360 And there's quite a bit of stuff on there that these our space 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,960 brothers are coming to save us from ourselves. 47 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,160 That's almost a direct Keel quote right there. 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,760 But there's other ways to look at this that I think as 49 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,520 practitioners can be quite beneficial. 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,920 So I got, I mean, I was not interested in this stuff at all 51 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:09,960 other than the general sense of having seen when I was a kid, 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,000 close encounters. And you hear these stories 53 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,480 occasionally you run into someone who says they saw a UFO, 54 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,960 whatever. I had never seen a UFO when I 55 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,520 got interested in this. I didn't see one since then, but 56 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,360 very minor, but it was during the pandemic. 57 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,840 You know, we're all bored as hell. 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,560 There's nothing to do. You can't go out. 59 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,360 And like there's a strong sense of fear. 60 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,920 Communities were kind of non existing except for online and I 61 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,680 just I don't remember exactly how I came across it, but I came 62 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:50,280 across a book by a guy named John Keel K double El and to my 63 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,400 mind, no one has surpassed Keel and is either his ability to 64 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,360 write. He was a beautiful writer. 65 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,040 He was a he was a journalist since he was very young and, and 66 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,200 had a great command of the English language. 67 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:08,120 And his insights about what was probably going on or how to look 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,080 at what was going on are so much superior to anything that you 69 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,800 see these days as far as I'm concerned that it really blew my 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,920 mind. He's got several really good 71 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,600 books, but if you're going to read 1, I think the best one to 72 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,200 start with is Operation Trojan Horse. 73 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,720 That book talks about, I mean, he did more research about 74 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,760 aliens and, and all this stuff than anyone else and had a, a 75 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,000 more holistic view than anyone else. 76 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,680 And we can talk a little bit about what that was, but it's a 77 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,080 good book to start with. I think it's better than, it's 78 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,440 better than way better than anybody who's like, there are 79 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,720 spacemen coming and they wanna you know what? 80 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:56,680 What did Teres McKenna used to call them like, not alien, but 81 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,680 extraterrestrial proctologists or something? 82 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,760 I always thought that was funny because they're always like 83 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,000 sticking things in people's butts and stuff. 84 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,960 Like, anyway, to my mind, Keel's most interesting. 85 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,120 I read that book and it really expanded my mind. 86 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,000 And that is why I think this is the most important thing for 87 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,120 practitioners to hear is that we're always looking to expand 88 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,440 our viewpoint. Whatever viewpoint you have is 89 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,600 already limited because there's your viewpoint and everybody 90 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,920 else's. And so there's a built in kind 91 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,160 of dualism there and all this kind of thing. 92 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,120 We want to expand our mind and reading this kind of stuff can 93 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,400 both expand your mind and expand your worldview. 94 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,040 You kind of think like whoa when you when you read these kind of 95 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,040 materials, what you realize is seeing spaceships or whatever 96 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:50,080 they happen to be is some kind of apparently non human craft. 97 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:56,280 Unidentified flying objects is extremely common and even way 98 00:05:56,280 --> 00:06:00,800 weirder things like interacting. Not just seeing but interacting 99 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,320 with beings that apparently seem to be very different than 100 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,080 humans. Non humans is so common just 101 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,000 based on how many reports there are and how frequently they come 102 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,600 out. And those are only the ones that 103 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:20,680 are reported on somebody today in the world. 104 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,440 Maybe many people are having interactions with these beings 105 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,240 right now today. That is an outrageous thing to 106 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,520 think. And to me, that was the biggest 107 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,200 thing I got out of it. I was like, this is really 108 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,560 happening. This is not something that 109 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,200 happened like only to Barty and Benny Hill, you know, the, the, 110 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,800 the first contact to use in the 50s. 111 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,400 This is happening all the freaking time. 112 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,360 And that makes your mind big and makes your world big and really 113 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,240 interesting. So that was how I got into it. 114 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,400 I, I thought it was, it's not a main topic that I'm interested 115 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:56,440 in, but I keep my, my finger on that pulse and just to see 116 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,360 what's happening in the thing. And it's been interesting to 117 00:06:58,360 --> 00:06:59,960 watch the disclosure stuff happen. 118 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:03,840 It's it's it's interesting. Yeah, Well, I think what the 119 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:07,360 revelation for me is I'm still open to the idea of biological 120 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,280 aliens. I'm, I'm open to it, you know, 121 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,280 But I think what Joe's to pointing at and what Keel talks 122 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:19,000 to is that there is something that's been going on all through 123 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,160 our existence where something, some other kind of entity 124 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,560 appears to being to, to humans and, and interacts with them. 125 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:33,360 And that the form that it takes for us might be conditioned by 126 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,560 our culture. So in the past, we might have 127 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,880 called them the Fae, and currently we might call them 128 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,120 aliens, but those might actually be the same thing, right? 129 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,440 That like Carl Jung talks about, you know, this archetypal 130 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,320 projection that we have a kind of cultural vision. 131 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:54,040 And, and so as things have become technological and Star 132 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,400 Trek has come into the newest sphere, and then that's sort of 133 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,560 like how it manifests. It's like we're interacting with 134 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:08,560 something more spiritual and that the how it appears to us 135 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,720 has some kind of conditioning going on based on our mind. 136 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,040 And that that's actually a better explanation for most of 137 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,040 what's happened in terms of abductions and visitations and 138 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,520 contact that that it's kind of a non material reality. 139 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,520 And that Tibetan Buddhism has the eight classes of spirits, 140 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,280 right? Like the these are the major 141 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,320 types of spirits that are acknowledged within this 142 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,080 worldview. And I think that this might just 143 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,600 be the very same thing. So I'm wondering what your 144 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,440 thoughts are on this, Joe like. I think you're absolutely right, 145 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,960 yeah. I mean, one needs to kind of 146 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,800 look into Keel and or Jacques Valley has the same view now 147 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,920 that it's not spacemen, it's not people coming from other worlds 148 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,480 that may have happened and it may occasionally happen. 149 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:02,080 Such things are possible, but the frequency of of sightings 150 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,000 and the difference of all the different ships and all the 151 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,720 different beings makes it obvious that it's not just many 152 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,320 beings coming and checking us out to get soil samples. 153 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,360 This is like a the most absurd elementary view. 154 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,400 Letting go of that is a good thing to do. 155 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:22,240 I think there's no question that there's something happening. 156 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:23,960 It could. I think it's based on the Earth, 157 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,520 personally, I think it's in. I think it's earth manifested. 158 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,080 They're not from somewhere else. And I think that wherever humans 159 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,440 are, this kind of thing happens in very early days. 160 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,960 It, it, I mean, it was probably angels, right? 161 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,160 People, angels and demons. This kind of thing was the 162 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,160 manifestation. Then later the fairy faith 163 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,000 became huge and people saw fairies everywhere. 164 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 I mean, I know people who've seen fairies. 165 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,800 I'm unfortunately have not seen one that I'm a member of the 166 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,280 Fairy Investigation Society, which you can join also on, on 167 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,440 Facebook if you want to. And I'm going to spend a little 168 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,680 little bit of time this summer in Iceland, a place where the 169 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,800 fairy faith is the strongest in the world. 170 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,880 I think this stuff is cool. They were fairies for a while. 171 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,800 Then as we became just like Damien said, became more 172 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:17,960 technological, they start to appear as as aliens, spacemen or 173 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,320 whatever, you know, this kind of thing. 174 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,120 Then there's this idea that the the Grays right with Whitley 175 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,720 Strieber and Communion, the big headed, big eyed, the kind of no 176 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:32,080 mouth sort of whatever they they come in many forms and why they 177 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,160 shouldn't also be related to the eight classes of gods and 178 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,080 demons. Obviously they are. 179 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,200 It's the same freaking thing, obviously. 180 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,400 And for us, because my worldview is a technological modern 181 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,120 worldview, what might appear to my teacher in Tibet as a sin 182 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,440 demon, those red demons that live in cliffs might appear to 183 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:01,360 me as as some sort of alien or some sort of a different way, 184 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,520 you know, a fairy. If I'm interested in fairies, 185 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,840 the interesting thing to think about is they're out there. 186 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:09,800 It makes the world more fascinating. 187 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,480 I want a world that has aliens in it. 188 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,960 Whether they're aliens from other worlds or aliens from 189 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,720 Tibetan mythology doesn't matter so much to me. 190 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,000 There was also a period where before this modern period of 191 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,560 spacemen, where a lot of people saw gods like Greek gods. 192 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,760 How's that about? You know, what's that about? 193 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,240 It's gotta be something that's manifesting into our experience, 194 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,840 kind of Co emergent with us as humans. 195 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,440 That has always been there. If you read the gospel of Enoch, 196 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,360 where did Enoch go? He went on a spaceship to other 197 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,880 worlds to see different ways that people live and it and it's 198 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,560 very interesting And and there's quite a bit in the Bible. 199 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,120 Ezekiel saw the wheel, all that stuff. 200 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,600 There's an argument to be made that the that the occurrences at 201 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,680 Fatima and Lords were also aliens and very interesting 202 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:01,200 stuff. This I, I, I like this primarily 203 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,000 because it expands the mind and it, and it also gives us an 204 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:10,840 opportunity to see, to have a more kind of Gaia based 205 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,360 worldview where we really see the world is alive and it 206 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,960 manifests in all kinds of ways. Why shouldn't there be beings 207 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,240 who live in forests? Why shouldn't there be beings of 208 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,760 the air? You know, just like in the old 209 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,160 days, they talked about these things. 210 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,480 I think it's my, my primary interest is, is in what it does 211 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,720 to my mind. It makes the world less boring. 212 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,280 It makes the world more vast and more populated by interesting 213 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:36,440 beings. You never know where they're 214 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,440 going to show up. Yeah, and it it, the materialist 215 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,120 worldview is the most detrimental of all views. 216 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,560 I really believe this. And so like getting over seeing 217 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:50,320 everything is just stuff, you know, which is so nihilistic and 218 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,920 terrible. Instead to see we live in a 219 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,960 living universe and that, you know, we can make a good 220 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,480 relationship and expand our compassion and loving kindness. 221 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,400 And and it also explains why some of these encounters are 222 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,960 incredibly apparently beneficial. 223 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,440 Like people get information or insight or new technology or 224 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,560 yeah, or this sort of thing or and sometimes it's not so good 225 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,840 and they make you sick and people die and people go crazy. 226 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,360 So we have these two juxtapositions. 227 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,160 And that kind of makes sense that in the eight classes, you 228 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,080 know, you have kind of benevolent spirits and we have 229 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,880 kind of not so benevolent spirits. 230 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:35,480 And making a good relationship to these things is probably a 231 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,120 good idea. And to understand that it, it's 232 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:43,520 a consciousness interface, not just like an entity out there 233 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,280 somewhere with which extremely dualistic, you know, like it's, 234 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,000 it's a connected thing and relating to that. 235 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,080 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. 236 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,480 Something you said made me want to say something because we 237 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,360 never know who's watching these podcasts. 238 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:05,280 I think I mean, 1 of Keel's major insights is that research 239 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,360 into UFOs, whatever this is, this whole thing, we'll just 240 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,440 call it UFOs, is not good for you generally. 241 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,000 And I think that that's everyone should be aware too much 242 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:22,840 interest in this stuff, too much research of it and interviewing 243 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,960 people who've done, who've had these experiences is can be, can 244 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,040 be disturbing to your psyche. Everyone should know that, 245 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,120 having an interest in it, reading a few books, hey, it's 246 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:41,200 cool, but it's a Dark World and what we could call occult forces 247 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,480 are real. And as if you're a practitioner, 248 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,840 you're more sensitive to these things than other people are. 249 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,400 So although it's OK to research this a little bit or to be 250 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,960 interested on some level, I am, I think too much interest can, 251 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,320 cannot, can be unbalancing for people, especially if you're 252 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,640 already unbalanced. This, this world is runs right 253 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,280 up against the whole world of channeling and automatic writing 254 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,080 all of stuff which has almost no benefit for any practitioner. 255 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,080 You have to be careful. I'm going to just say in 256 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,920 parentheses because I'm some of the people who listen to this 257 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,760 podcast are practitioners. At some point in your practice, 258 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:26,440 you may interact with Yadams, you may interact with Guru 259 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,800 Padams and Baba. On some level, this is OK. 260 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,920 Putting too much in that and getting the sense like maybe I'm 261 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,160 a territon kind of thing is not good. 262 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,280 And I'm not the only one to say it. 263 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,520 I remember having a conversation with Eric Pembakunsang about 264 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,480 this exact thing, and he's like, be careful. 265 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,560 Tell your people, my people in my song, be careful. 266 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,320 You have to be careful. Our psyches are very sensitive, 267 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,200 and as practitioners, our goal is to expand our minds, which is 268 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,200 good for the most part. We just want to make sure that 269 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,000 we remain grounded. Our world is the primary world. 270 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,680 If you're interacting with too many spirits, too many angels, 271 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:12,720 too many whatever disincarnate humans, whatever baloney, it can 272 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,520 be very disturbing. So I just thought that's 273 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,840 important in parentheses. Otherwise people can get kind of 274 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,680 like go and Damien said it was good. 275 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,560 And then the next thing you know, you're like kind of crazy. 276 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,040 And this is not good. Practitioners should not be 277 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,760 crazy. You need to be together. 278 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,920 Our world is the is the most important one. 279 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,440 But you know, it's also cool. It's it's cool stuff. 280 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,880 Well, the, yeah, the, the Tibetans were not cavalier about 281 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,200 this sort of thing at all. They, they took these spirits 282 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,840 seriously and, and saw them as dangerous in many levels, you 283 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,440 know, So when we're doing, you know, if you have a Sircam 284 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,960 practice or something, you're, you're making a little bit of a 285 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,880 gesture to these beings, but it's couched in your protection, 286 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,320 in your mandala with your teacher and the lineage and all 287 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,240 of that. And that's important, you know, 288 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,760 so you have these people who are like, yeah, picking up a book on 289 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,079 witchcraft or whatever, and they'd start, you know, 290 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,960 summoning whatever. You're opening your mind to 291 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,160 things that you don't, you don't know what you're asking for. 292 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,760 Yeah. And then that's not a good idea. 293 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,200 And so, yeah, I think it is very wise to be careful and to 294 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,880 recognize, as I said, the consciousness component of this, 295 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,480 not taking, as you said, even, you know, these experiences of 296 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,760 yiddems or or gurus or whatever to be too, too much, you know, 297 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:36,280 to be so clear that it's a clear vision and not consciousness 298 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,680 experience. It's better to just understand 299 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,000 it as a good sign or, you know, whatever, or with taking a 300 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,160 massive grain of salt and not really like think that this is 301 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,040 like a materialistically true event that now determines my 302 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,720 future as a person. Yeah, that's all about. 303 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,520 When you save humanity, how many people have had some kind of 304 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,480 interaction with some kind of non human, whether it was part 305 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,920 of their own psyche or an actual entity? 306 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,400 Hard to say. And then they gave up everything 307 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,040 and became Princess Moon Owl. You know, like some lunatic. 308 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,480 And then this is not good. So that's all I meant to say in 309 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,640 that too much interaction with this is very destabilizing. 310 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,080 And the fact is everything is losery. 311 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,160 That's the that's the position of us as practitioners. 312 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,200 Everything's losery. So as Damien said, massive grain 313 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,720 of salt. Keep it light. 314 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,080 Keep it light. The occult is dangerous. 315 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,280 Why is it dangerous? Not because you're going to sum 316 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,920 it up the devil, but because you're going to sum it up part 317 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,400 of you which believes in the devil. 318 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,200 And that's going to take its own, that's going to have its 319 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,280 own strength. And that can be very difficult 320 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,400 to get rid of. You know, if you think of 321 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,320 Alexander David Neal doing that tulpa manifestation that she 322 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,360 talks about in Magic and Mystery in Tibet, where she imagined 323 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:01,920 this monk and imagined this monk until somebody else saw the 324 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,360 monk, you don't want to do this. Too much occult, not good. 325 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,600 That's very dark, right? Darkness is a little dangerous. 326 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,280 Yeah, the the IT points to the technology of visualization and 327 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,400 you know what we're up to in Tantra. 328 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,520 We're using this carefully crafted system for modifying 329 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,680 kind of the hardware and software of our mind and that it 330 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,360 really can go in a lot of directions. 331 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,920 I, I know, I'm sure you've, we've all had the experience 332 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,000 like if you, maybe you start noticing 1111 on your clock and 333 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,640 and then you'll start seeing it constantly and then it can 334 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,880 become like. You, you can written a whole 335 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,400 movie about that, right? Yeah, you can train your mind to 336 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,240 get kind of locked into and it's like, yes, you can see it is a 337 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,720 good sign. But if you get too hung up, then 338 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,440 you can become kind of schizophrenic in where you're 339 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,440 actually starting to shift your world perception. 340 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,960 And, and especially if you have any kind of Vata derangement and 341 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,480 you combine that with this too much wind element, then you're 342 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,320 really asking for trouble. So, Jeff, yeah, be careful. 343 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,520 I think this is all good advice and important to acknowledge and 344 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,520 also a way to understand. Yeah, I think the world is going 345 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,640 to open up to more. We're starting to recognize that 346 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,680 the world's not as physical as we once thought, like we we were 347 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,000 kind of going back in some ways, even in the mainstream. 348 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,240 We're starting to see more openness to that. 349 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,760 So we need to be judicious and in our relationship to all of 350 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,200 it. Yeah, I think something 351 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,240 important to say about this is a lot of people get involved in 352 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:46,280 these things and it doesn't turn out well for they have a subtle 353 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,960 sense that this is going to help them. 354 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,160 They're going to get power or money or, you know, partners, 355 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,440 some kind of thing. A lot of people involved in any 356 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,480 kind of a cult stuff, they think they're going to get something 357 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,440 for it. Nobody gets anything except 358 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,080 trouble. That is important to know, You 359 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,520 know, you we do supplicate the protectors. 360 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,120 I make protector offering every day. 361 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:12,160 Damien makes protector offering every day, Right. 362 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,640 And but we don't expect too much from them, right? 363 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,640 Mostly they're about keeping, keeping distraction away more 364 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,080 than they are like summoning up something you want, like a new 365 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,920 car or something. This is very, I, I think it's 366 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,000 important just to know that down the road of kind of a cult 367 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,040 practices for getting something for you. 368 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,280 It's very ego enhancing, which is the opposite of the Dharma. 369 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,720 And it never works out. It never works out. 370 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,760 Knowing about them is fun. You can, if you practice this 371 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,320 kind of meditation that we're talking about, your mind becomes 372 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,560 more open. If you read a lot of Tibetan 373 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,840 stuff, your mind becomes open to those ideas. 374 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,120 And I myself, occasionally I am the least psychic person around. 375 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,160 Occasionally I can, I can sense the mountain deities. 376 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,280 You know, I live in the mountains, so there's mountains 377 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,720 everywhere. You can feel it. 378 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,760 Sometimes you can feel the presence of the fairies or 379 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,480 whatever that is in the woods. You know you can feel it. 380 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,440 Yeah. In Thailand, you know, these big 381 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,200 trees and they wrap these colored cloth around them if 382 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:21,320 they're holy trees and a lot of people make offerings there, you 383 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,680 can sometimes tell there's something there, but nobody ever 384 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,160 gets anything from those things. So, so don't let that part go. 385 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,560 You know, I've seen Tibetan masters interact with these 386 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,760 things. I watched the taming of a, of a, 387 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:40,640 of a demon spirit one time and I made my hair stand up. 388 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,760 I was like, I don't want to be involved in this. 389 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,680 I mean, he's a terraton. He knows. 390 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,640 And he did his thing and drew this diagram on the ground all 391 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,800 kind of, it was a very spontaneous crazy thing, but it 392 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,840 didn't make me want to do it. And it's very difficult to get 393 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,680 something from them. I, I just want to make that 394 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,760 point because of some people think, oh, a little occult, 395 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,360 maybe I'll be richer or something like that. 396 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,920 There are easier ways. There are easier ways. 397 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,640 Well, I think it is important what you mentioned about the 398 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,760 protectors, right? We supplicate the enlightened 399 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,280 protectors mostly, right? And then there's worldly 400 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,000 protectors, which are kind of what we're talking about and 401 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,240 they're notoriously difficult. And the reason we supplicate the 402 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,280 enlightened protectors is to protect us from the worldly 403 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,240 protectors, right? They manage them. 404 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,400 They're their managers. And we're relying because what 405 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,680 are what are the enlightened protectors other than the 406 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,800 manifestation of our guru in a form that protects us from this 407 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,480 nonsense? So why would we want to invite 408 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,120 in the very thing we're actually asking to be kept out right to, 409 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,840 to be pacified and regulated? We don't want to ask them to 410 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,600 come in. We want them managed so that 411 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,920 that's why we make our offering to their managers. 412 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,600 Yeah, if this kind of thing, aliens and researching this 413 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,680 stuff and Skinwalker Ranch, whatever kind of weird stuff 414 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,880 excites you and gives you energy that you can use towards your 415 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,080 practice, it's good. Makes your view of the world 416 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,000 more vast and you appreciate more what a interesting world we 417 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,520 live in and the possibilities there. 418 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,400 Good. If if some part of you is like, 419 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,880 I wonder if maybe my life will be easier or I can control my 420 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,840 neighbor or whatever. This is something really to be 421 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,400 careful with because that's the ego, right? 422 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,520 The the thing we're trying to see is non existent or to 423 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,080 eliminate depending on your viewpoint. 424 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,640 And a lot of this stuff is only enhancing that, whether it's 425 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,000 dark, dark magic, black magic, kind of occult stuff, voodoo, 426 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,840 whatever, or if it's even like just thinking too much about 427 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,240 aliens, you know, they're like a little dangerous. 428 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,400 So good to know about and exciting to think about the 429 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,640 infinitely populated world, but also a little bit distracting 430 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,440 sometimes. When I think if you people who 431 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,560 have a strong connection to the shamanic side of things, the way 432 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,440 to go is to get into chud. You know, you find a, a llama 433 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,280 who's an expert in that system of practice. 434 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,280 And because chud is inherently Bodhi cheetah motivated, it's 435 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,280 inherently Bodhi cheetah oriented, it protects you from 436 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,240 these deviations you're talking about. 437 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,520 But if, you know, like, there are people who just have psychic 438 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,960 sensitivity and they do feel these spirits everywhere and do 439 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,200 have this connection, yeah, like, I'm like you, I'm not very 440 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,080 psychic at all. But for people who are, then a 441 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,000 method in a system like should is kind of perfectly designed to 442 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,760 support somebody like that. Well said. 443 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,120 I, I'll close my part. I've been, I was reading some of 444 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:50,440 the biography of Poonjaji, an Indian guru who died not long 445 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:51,520 ago. Very interesting. 446 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,360 A teacher of some friends of mine and in the latter part of 447 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,200 his life he was invited to go all over the world. 448 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,600 He spent a bunch of time in Europe, he was in South America. 449 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,320 And he, he reports that he met several people who were 450 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,840 channelers and he said, I in all my years, I have never met a 451 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,560 channeler who was benefited by doing this. 452 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,800 That unhinges you. That's his word. 453 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:17,960 And and we don't want to, we want to be more hinged, not less 454 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,240 hinged. So think, keep yourself on that 455 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,840 stroke and then you can do what you want. 456 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,920 But if you if you deviate and it starts to be like Gurbache is 457 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,960 telling me, then the next thing you know, you're like shooting 458 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,840 up them all because Gurbache told you. 459 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,240 That's lunatics everywhere. We don't need more of them, 460 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:35,200 right? No. 461 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,160 Well, I think this ties right into also to the whole 462 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,400 psychedelic idea too, that it opens your channels, right? 463 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,080 Like these things can open you to experiences that you may or 464 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,560 may not be ready for. So the main thing is be careful 465 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,200 and there's no reason to push too hard into any of these 466 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,680 things that, as you said, it's good to know that we are in a 467 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,280 living universe with things that we don't know, that there's so 468 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,720 much that is beyond our conception, that we live in a 469 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,880 very limited point of view. And so it's good to open our 470 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,160 mind. But yes, I think everything 471 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,000 you've said is so helpful that we want to be careful about this 472 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,840 stuff and, and not not cavalier. So thank you for enjoying this 473 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,280 conversation. I hope our, our listeners enjoy 474 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,640 it. I know it might sound a little 475 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,080 bit like depressing. Oh, super exciting. 476 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,920 You know, I watch X-Files every week as a kid, and that that 477 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,760 show just, like, inspired me because it's just like, the 478 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,480 world. Life is boring, and you want 479 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,360 something exciting to happen, like aliens to land in your 480 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:42,120 backyard. But there's so much magic in the 481 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,600 vajriana that you'll find just by practicing this. 482 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,440 And yeah, so I think it's just good to have this whole big, big 483 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,040 perspective and keep it couched in wisdom and bodhichitta, and 484 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,600 you'll be just fine. So thanks for watching as 485 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,440 always. And a reminder that we have our 486 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,080 weekly live meditation Wednesday nights at 5:00 PM Pacific Time 487 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,280 on YouTube Live. So check that out if you want to 488 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,560 join Joe as he leads a little meditation and some different 489 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,400 fun, cool stuff you might encounter there. 490 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,440 I think you might enjoy it. So check in. 491 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,120 We're starting to build a little community. 492 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,120 And please like, share, subscribe to our channel. 493 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,160 We appreciate all of that very much. 494 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,440 It helps us, the algorithm. Thanks for watching and we'll 495 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,120 see you next time.