1 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,200 Welcome back everybody to the Denver Zone Chen podcast. 2 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,400 I'm here once again with Joseph Wagner, and today we're going to 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,400 discuss a topic that's been requested by one of our viewers 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,120 and that is pure vision. What is it? 5 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,120 How do you cultivate it? How is it actually look as a 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,200 practice? And I think this is a really 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,920 important question because it isn't always clear, you know, 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,360 like the way that this is presented, especially to the 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,240 public, is a little bit hard to access. 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,080 And some of that's intentional because some of this isn't 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,520 really public teachings, right, That some of this is secret. 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,360 And so we won't be able to go into everything, but I think 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,880 we'll be able to generally introduce the topic and talk 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,680 about how you might get started with this. 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,840 So, Joe, welcome. And maybe you can give us a few 16 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,080 of your opening thoughts. Hello, Damien. 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,600 Hello everyone. Isn't this awesome where I got a 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,599 lot of podcasts out? I just saw the number. 19 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,080 It was pretty high. So thank you to all of you for 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,120 being part of this. And for if you weren't 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,640 interested, then we wouldn't be doing it. 22 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,920 And then and it gives me a chance to think about these 23 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,080 things and Damien and I to connect about them. 24 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:16,640 It's really good. So thank you. 25 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,000 I'm glad we're talking about this topic because I just got 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,040 back from a trip to India, which is a place where if you don't 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,040 have pure vision, then you're going to die immediately. 28 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,080 It's so intense and difficult. But I did learn a few 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,600 interesting things about pure vision, received a few teachings 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,000 and and one of them was specifically about this topic. 31 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,640 But before we go into the all that stuff, I thought might as 32 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,240 well place it within the general context of Buddhism. 33 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:52,240 In Buddhism, the home, there are three sort of aspects of 34 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,840 vehicles, you know, really just two. 35 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,880 But we break the Mahayana into Mahayana and Vajriana. 36 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,640 Of course, the Terravada position or the general outlook, 37 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:08,360 the hallmark is renunciation, recognizing the suffering comes 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,360 from grasping. And so we're going to cut it off 39 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,120 the root by turning away from grasping and turning away from 40 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,320 desirable objects in general. And this was the path of the 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:19,960 Buddha. It's the path of all 42 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,160 practitioners on some level, in even in the most I'm I'm 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,480 practicing a guru yoga sadhana from the long genetic cycle. 44 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,760 And right in there it says, may I turn my back on samsara? 45 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,440 May I turn away from worldly concerns? 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,360 This is the renunciation aspect. It's the foundation of all 47 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,280 Buddhism, but it's the hallmark of the Theravaden School in 48 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,680 Mayana. That hallmark changes to 49 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,840 compassion, to practicing the paramedis for the goodness of 50 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,880 all beings, for the well-being of everyone, recognizing we're 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,480 all kind of like balloons tied together at the bottom. 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,080 Individually, we look individual and the balloon aspect, but when 53 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,320 you follow the string down, we're connected to everyone. 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,480 Therefore, if Damien gets enlightened, I go up a little 55 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,560 bit, and if somebody else who I'm connected to is like 56 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,960 spiraling out of control down, I'm affected. 57 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,640 This is obvious, right? If you have a friend who say a 58 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:18,560 friend is in a deep depression or is an alcoholic or something 59 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,720 really tough, you're also affected by that. 60 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,880 It's not like you're a totally separate being, right? 61 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,320 So this recognition leads to the hallmark of the Mahayana being 62 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,280 compassion. And then if we take vajayana as 63 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,600 a separate vehicle in the sense that it's like quite different 64 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,960 from standard Mahayana, the hallmark of the vajayana is pure 65 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,520 perception. It is both the method by which 66 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,480 we transform the world and our experience in the world and also 67 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,240 the goal in, in that once the world is completely transformed 68 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,320 into purity, then we've already attained enlightenment. 69 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,200 So these are the this is the way that I understand the the three 70 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,360 vehicles and the relationship of pure perception to Buddhism in 71 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,320 general. Yeah. 72 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,280 And seeing it in that framework, what I think the most important 73 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:12,480 thing to recognize is that the scaffolding is getting lighter 74 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,800 and more subtle the more you go up these paths, right? 75 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,200 So kind of like living on a cushion and only eating a very 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,960 small amount. And this is a very coarse way of 77 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,400 approaching the path, right? Like it's mostly having to do 78 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,080 with your body and your physical experience. 79 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,280 And then in the Mahayana, it's a little more emotional, 80 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,000 relational. You're getting into that kind of 81 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,960 like service of others and compassion and the four 82 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,520 measurables being your emphasis. And then as again, the vajriana, 83 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,960 it's even more subtle because it's energetic and working 84 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,800 directly with that push and pull of I want it and I don't want it 85 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,760 at a really subtle level. I think the big mistake people 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:05:00,440 think is that that visualization is like imagination in the 87 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,560 service of belief that they're just like doing this to try to 88 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,880 change their mind, right? But really it's, it's about 89 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,720 correcting our perception. It's actually closer to how 90 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:18,120 things are, not a new additional delusion that we put in on top 91 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,960 of things to try and fix the you know, I think that's what people 92 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,280 get tripped up on. And so maybe you could talk a 93 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:28,800 little bit about that, like how how this is not an additional 94 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,480 layer you're pouring onto your experience. 95 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,920 Yeah, that's well said. You, you covered all the 96 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,080 important points. Stilco Urge and my llama, my 97 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,200 root llama used to say that same thing used to say when we're 98 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,720 doing visualization, we're not overlaying something we wish 99 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,640 were true on the world. We're actually seeing things 100 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,400 more like they actually are. And this is one of the sort of 101 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,480 secrets of pure perception. And also what makes it have so 102 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,680 much resonance for us is if it were just an overlay, kind of 103 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:05,280 like the belief that like the secret that if you're familiar 104 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:09,920 with that old sort of style of mental control and it can work a 105 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,160 little bit. You're sort of saying like, 106 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,560 everything's good, everything's good. 107 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:17,600 Like even if think it's, it's a little out of line with reality 108 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,600 to some degree. Interestingly, the Bajriana pure 109 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,480 perception, which at its most, I was going to say extreme, but 110 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,760 we'll call it supreme form, sees all beings as deities, is 111 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,880 actually closer to how things that really are than than 112 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,400 believing everything is good. I I think pure perception has to 113 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,040 do a little bit with the fact of the two truths, which is 114 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,560 something we could talk about in another podcast because it's a 115 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,560 big topic. But the, the relative truth of 116 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,120 ordinary reality, which we share. 117 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:58,480 You know, if you and I both watch a basketball game, which 118 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,920 would be bizarre for both of us, let's just say it happened and 119 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,760 we were both rooting for the same team, we would have the 120 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,760 similar experience of that. If we both go to a restaurant, 121 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:10,200 Vietnamese vegan restaurant, which I intend to go to with you 122 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,920 when I come out there next, we both could have a similar 123 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,920 experience. This is this is like relative 124 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,480 reality, right? The day is sunny or the day is 125 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,080 snowy. We both perceive that. 126 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,800 OK, great. What we overlay on that is, 127 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,600 geez, I was supposed to go on a bike ride today, now it's 128 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,960 snowing, I can't go. What am I going to do with my 129 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,800 day? The socks, that is. 130 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,840 That is our own personal experience, but it's still of 131 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,720 the relative reality. And then there's the experience, 132 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,480 to whatever degree is possible of the actual nature of reality 133 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,680 is supreme level of reality, which is primordially pure and 134 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,720 without concepts and beyond good or bad, liking and disliking and 135 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,320 so forth. So when we're talking about pure 136 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:02,040 perception, we are using our, which is what usually a, a kind 137 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,160 of psychological or mental understanding of pure perception 138 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,280 because it's not our, our true understanding, at least not in 139 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,560 my case most of the time or maybe ever. 140 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,520 And overlaying that on relative reality in order to relate to 141 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,760 relative reality in a way that's more beneficial for the path, 142 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,880 more beneficial and enjoyable for ourselves, and more 143 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,280 beneficial for those around us. Yeah, for me, the the most 144 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,520 accessible way to this whole thing has been through guru 145 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,360 yoga. You can do it through deity yoga 146 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,760 and and vast mandala practice and but most of us don't have 147 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,559 time for this. But the simple kind of 148 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:41,840 everything in your life is a blessing from the group. 149 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:44,840 If it's if it's positive, that's a blessing from the group. 150 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,080 If it's so-called negative, that's a purification blessing 151 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,800 from the group. Or like a challenge or a test 152 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,360 being put forward. For me, this is the simplest way 153 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,680 to begin to reorient myself to seeing everything in service of 154 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:04,760 the path and not having so much I want I don't want going on and 155 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,640 have more equanimity towards everything. 156 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,960 And starting to see the purity of things and beings as 157 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:17,040 offerings, teachings, tests from from the guru and the guru being 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:21,160 inseparable from me. So that this mind being in the 159 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,280 mind of the guru and everything being that perception, that's 160 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:30,200 the most accessible entry point that I've found for this kind of 161 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,120 experience. I like that Damien always comes 162 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,320 from above. He's like, he's like the highest 163 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,960 level and that's what I'm doing. I'm like, I'm kind of coming 164 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,720 from below. But then you're absolutely 165 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,240 right. This is the ultimate way. 166 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,440 I mean, in in this same practice, I'm engaging in the 167 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,680 screw yoga from the long term and ticket says the generation 168 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:51,600 stage. We need to talk about the two 169 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,600 stages of practices in the generation stage where all 170 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,560 appearances arise as the guru. That's exactly what you're 171 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:01,280 saying, right When we take the guru yoga to heart and we 172 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,400 believe what is said in the Vajriana, which is that as soon 173 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,360 as you enter the path of the Vajriana, your experience 174 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,720 changes in the sense that everything that occurs, no 175 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:19,720 matter how outlandish or intimate, is the an exact gift 176 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,280 from your teacher. When good things happen, we're 177 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,160 supposed to think, oh, thank you, Lama for this beautiful 178 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,800 day. Thank you so much for this 179 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,520 amazing meal. Whatever and when bad things 180 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,120 happen, we're supposed to say, oh good, I I'm purifying some 181 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,400 karma. Because on the path of Adriana, 182 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,520 the goal is liberation in one life. 183 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,840 Either in this body, there's a rainbow body or some sort of 184 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,240 super realized being at the time of death, the actual moment of 185 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,000 death when you don't go through the bardo, but you're liberated 186 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,440 or in the bardo, you recognize the yidam or your teacher or 187 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:57,400 whatever, or you know, further down the path you rise in purem, 188 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,640 nirmanakai, purem. All of those have to do with 189 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,960 liberation in this life, meaning not going to take another birth. 190 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,600 And in order to do that, it's important as Vajrayanis or any 191 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,280 Buddhist to realize we have so much negative karma. 192 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,920 We are always carrying around incredible amount of habitual 193 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,480 tendencies of wrong views, of bad habits. 194 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,160 This body, this body is only karma, and it's almost entirely 195 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,920 negative because it's going to die, right? 196 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,040 It's impermanent and it's our vehicle and it's unreliable, all 197 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,920 this stuff. So just to recognize that our 198 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,320 experience in the world is almost entirely karmic. 199 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,960 And when you embrace what Damian is saying and you see that good 200 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,440 things are a blessing and you feel rejoicing and bad things, 201 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,960 bad in quotation marks, sometimes they really are. 202 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,720 They really certainly do feel bad. 203 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,920 I'm not, you know, lowering that it can be life can be extremely 204 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,200 challenging. That is a purification. 205 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,200 What it means is we need to remove a great deal of karma in 206 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,000 order for any of these levels of liberation to occur in this 207 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,760 life. Otherwise, we wind up born again 208 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,760 and almost all of our reactions are karmic reactions, right? 209 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,120 Something happens to us and we react, and that reaction itself 210 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,280 creates more karma. So we just keep, you know, 211 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,400 cycling. So it is skillful means and also 212 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,880 in accordance with the truth that whatever happens to us is a 213 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,040 blessing from the guru. Once you've entered the path. 214 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,480 And entering the path can be as simple as taking refuge. 215 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,960 It's true at the Mayan level, it's true at the Hinayana level, 216 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,200 but it's made explicit in the Vadriana, which is why Vadriana 217 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,400 is so excellent. Yeah. 218 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,160 And I think it's worth just touching on, you know, in the 219 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:50,360 Mahayoga, in the the full kind of expanse of this pure vision 220 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,920 practice, you're training yourself, you know, to visualize 221 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,880 this palace and the deities. And all of these are symbols 222 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,800 representing the aggregates, the elements, the, the sophisticated 223 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,920 understanding of the world according to Abhi Dharma, which 224 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,640 you know, So what you're training yourself to do, you 225 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,800 know, you're sitting on the cushion for hours and hours a 226 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,920 day with this visualization, with this knowledge, and you're 227 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,080 trying to replace the structure of your mind that sees things 228 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,760 incorrectly, right? Like we, we come in with our own 229 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:30,040 visualization of there are solid beings out here separate from me 230 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,160 and I want to get through here and I want to get what I want 231 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,240 and I want to destroy my enemies and all of that point of view. 232 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,120 It is like really hard wired into us at this point. 233 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,920 We, we've done it so much so, so the Mahaya works to undo this by 234 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,760 relabeling with more accurate understanding and terminology 235 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,040 that these are yiddems, this is the five elements of the five 236 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,800 dakinis and so on and so on. And it can be very complicated. 237 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,440 And if you love it, love it, you know, get into it. 238 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,360 But like I was saying that to me that it's much more accessible 239 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,120 to just see everything is the guru. 240 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,480 That way you don't have to like, you know, cuz you can spend. 241 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,320 If you like detail and you like that, then you're in for a 242 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,240 treat. You know, you go study ABI 243 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,800 Dharma, then you study Maha yoga together and try and put that 244 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,960 together and then spend time in that rewiring of your brain. 245 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,960 Like this is not an ordinary house. 246 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,920 This is a mandala. These are deities. 247 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,880 Some of them are destroying each other or destroying things, and 248 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,520 some are, you know, healing things. 249 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,960 And these are all the activities of the deities, right? 250 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,960 Like that kind of complicated view. 251 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,240 And then even the palace, the structures, pillars, they 252 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,680 represent the different faculties of the mind. 253 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,240 This is a very sophisticated system, but most of us just 254 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,040 don't have time to really do this in any kind of meaningful 255 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,080 way. So I think that's why for me, 256 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,400 Guri Yoga has just been the most accessible. 257 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,960 It it makes the most sense. And a lot of us come from a 258 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,280 judeo-christian background. So there's a little bit of like 259 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,720 similarity to seeing everything as God's will, you know, like, 260 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,440 so there's a kind of entry point that I think makes sense for us 261 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,520 Westerners that makes this possible. 262 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,240 And then as you were saying, Joe, that this is not that 263 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,000 overlay, this is training ourselves to see things more 264 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,760 accurately more in the present moment and with less conceptual. 265 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,240 I want and I don't want based on a delusion of a self. 266 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,320 You're, you're absolutely right. I, I think it's important to 267 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:42,080 remember to continuously remind ourselves that we think we are 268 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,200 seeing the world as it is as and that we're, we're logical 269 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,000 beings. We're operating within this 270 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,680 experience and we are seeing things correctly. 271 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:56,120 This is a fault at the very base level of Buddhism, the very base 272 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,960 level of the term Buddha. Because what does Buddha mean 273 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,640 awake? And if if Shakimuni's a Buddha 274 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,120 and I'm not a Buddha, then that means I'm asleep, right? 275 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,200 And when you're asleep, you only experience dreams. 276 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,480 You only experience your own mind's projection as dreams. 277 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,040 You know, I mean, once in a while, some will have like a a 278 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,080 dream, but it's some sort of vision of the actual world. 279 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,240 This is not what we're talking about. 280 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,480 We're talking about ordinary. I go to sleep, I dream I'm at 281 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,240 the grocery store and they're totally out of oat milk and I 282 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,400 have a little fit or whatever. You know this get regular life 283 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,440 dreams we have, We're doing that even when we're awake. 284 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,040 It's just that because of the way our consciousness works, we 285 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,760 are tied to it much more sophisticatedly. 286 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,200 So I look at my hand in a dream, I have 5 fingers. 287 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,240 I look back at my hand, I only have three fingers. 288 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,880 That's one of the keys of practicing dream yoga here. 289 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,400 I look at, you know, in my wakeful state, I look at my 290 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,600 hand, I have 5 fingers. I look at my hand later, I still 291 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,320 got 5 fingers. Unless there's been a bad 292 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,160 accident. So it's, it's the kind of thing 293 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,120 where this, this level of reality is still a dream, but 294 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,760 it's a lot more coherent. And so it's harder to see as a 295 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,240 dream when we compare it to our dream life. 296 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,440 But it's very important to recognize we are not seeing the 297 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,240 world correctly. We're seeing the world through 298 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,400 eyes that are have been trained according to the Dharma for 299 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,160 hundreds of millions of lifetimes with wrong perception. 300 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,359 And the base of that wrong perception is just what you 301 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,080 said, the belief in a self as separate from reality. 302 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,960 I will tell a little story. I'm a big fan of the English 303 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,240 writer John Blofeld. And I suggest that everyone read 304 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,640 his his spiritual autobiography. It's called The Wheel of Life. 305 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,760 Beautifully written book about his path through the Dharma. 306 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:50,560 Really wonderful. He died in 1987 I think and and 307 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,920 got to meet all the great masters, Dodrub Chen and Dunjum 308 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,760 Rinpoche and many other lamas and and Chinese masters who you 309 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,480 know, are long gone now. So amazing book. 310 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,040 In one of his books he tells a little story of something that 311 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,960 happened to him. He was driving somewhere and he 312 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,880 saw on this hillside this beautiful array of flowers, like 313 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,240 all these red flowers. And he was like wow, that is 314 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,400 gorge. He stopped the car and looked 315 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,760 for a minute and just was like wow, spring these I don't know 316 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,560 what kind of flowers are so red. Amazing. 317 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,560 And then he got back in the car and he drove up that hill and as 318 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,720 he got closer, he realized it was trash. 319 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,960 It wasn't flowers at all. And he said this is how it 320 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,800 really is. He saw it as flowers. 321 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,760 He believed it was flowers. His reaction, his emotional, 322 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,720 mental, psychological reaction was one to flowers. 323 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,880 And it was one of happiness when he drove up the hill and he saw 324 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,480 it was trash. His, his emotional, mental and 325 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,520 psychological reaction was like then later when he was probably 326 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,000 when he was writing that or what inspired him to write that 327 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,920 passage, he was like, ha ha. Both are not true, but one 328 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,480 inspires goodness, upliftedness, A relation to the world that's 329 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,000 more of a bodhisattva relation, and one inspires the opposite. 330 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,440 And it that is what pure perception, the key, the reason 331 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,320 for pure perception, the reason to practice this, even if it 332 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,680 doesn't feel real, even if it feels like artificially caused 333 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,000 to see that all that the guru wants me to lose my job, the 334 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,520 guru wants me to get in a car accident. 335 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,760 What a jerk. Now this kind of thing like 336 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,080 you're saying with guru yoga, the reason to train in this is 337 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,520 because it is it is more beneficial. 338 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,280 It is still a construct in a sense, but the construct is both 339 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:43,480 closer to reality because we're all Yadams in our inmost 340 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,320 essence. And also it's more beneficial. 341 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,560 It gets keeps you motivated on the path, keeps you living in a 342 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,760 more pure environment. And that is very, very good, 343 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,760 especially in a time like we are right now when things really 344 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,320 feel like they're coming apart. I know I say that every week, 345 00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:59,960 but it just keeps going downhill. 346 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,360 I went to India and things were OK. 347 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:03,720 I can't. I went to come back. 348 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,720 My flights are cancelled through the Middle East. 349 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,040 I have to reroute. I flew all the way around the 350 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,320 world. I like leaving a major carbon 351 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,720 footprint, I guess. But it was, it's that kind of 352 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,680 thing, right? The world is very challenging, 353 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,080 so it makes it more difficult for us to practice pure 354 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,200 perception. I refer the listener to previous 355 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,480 maybe 2 times ago or three times ago, we talked about the news 356 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,920 and our relationship to it. Very important to manage your 357 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,320 situation in order to be able to practice. 358 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,560 Pure perception. If you're on a battlefield, your 359 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,800 friends are getting blown up, is much more difficult to practice 360 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,480 than if you're in your house and you're vacuuming. 361 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,920 And then it really can, you know, surrounded by a look at 362 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,000 Damien's room, It's filled with tonkas. 363 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,720 It's filled with pictures of llamas. 364 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,800 This is very inspiring. And when that's why we set up a 365 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,360 shrine in our house, That's why we meditate in the same place 366 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,960 every day, all these things in order to increase the likelihood 367 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,320 that we will see things through a more pure lens. 368 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,200 It's still a lens, but it's more conducive to accomplishment on 369 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,160 the path. Yeah, I think it's so important 370 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,680 what you were saying about how we are, how this whole thing, 371 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,440 this whole construct is wired incorrectly, right? 372 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:23,680 That from the the subtlest level to this body, we are actually 373 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,320 some Saric formations and that everything we are perceiving is 374 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,160 not exactly how it is. And that, you know, our 375 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,280 bifurcated brain and dualistic thought, all of this systems are 376 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,520 all based on ignorance, built on ignorance. 377 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,320 And so we're practicing the yiddem and the seed syllable and 378 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,640 the appearance. We're trying to correct this 379 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,960 error as we come into experience. 380 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,080 Like you say, every day we come out of nowhere and we come into 381 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,640 this life and then we go back into nowhere when we go back to 382 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,480 sleep. That process is bound up with 383 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,160 ignorance, right? So because of that, we've come 384 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,800 into birth, into samsara, into a body, into, you know, a trap 385 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,480 basically. And that through this process of 386 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,480 guru yoga or deity yoga, we're untraining ourselves. 387 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,560 We're, we're, we're practicing this process of birth over and 388 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,480 over and over and over again without the delusion added to 389 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,880 it, You know, because the more correct view is that we are 390 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,720 inseparable from the guru, that we are inseparable from the 391 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,400 deity. And what that means is that 392 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,080 everything is pure. Everything is already made of 393 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,040 light. I mean, this is even coming true 394 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,680 in scientific understanding, right? 395 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,680 That there's no, there's no hear hear that things aren't the 396 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,040 solid thing we thought that they were. 397 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,080 That's already becoming true on on so many levels. 398 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,920 And so we can tap into that through this kind of 399 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,680 understanding and seeing things. Oh, everything is pure. 400 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,880 The, the, the, the kind of, yes, of course, there's a relative 401 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,280 dealing with your life and you can kind of keep doing that 402 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,840 while holding it all lightly. This, this is a dream. 403 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,240 This is like a dream that kind of, you know, lucid dream 404 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,200 training, I think is also the other easy access point like 405 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,360 guru yoga, just just continually, this is a dream. 406 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,120 Don't take it so seriously. Notice how where, where is this 407 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:24,440 morning when I was eating pancakes for breakfast? 408 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,760 It's gone. Like where it, it, it just 409 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,840 passes and everything keeps passing and this body will pass 410 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,200 and, and, and everything in our life will pass. 411 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,240 And that impermanence is, is more accurate vision, right? 412 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,440 Because we, we feel like it's going to last forever in good 413 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,080 and bad ways, right? We want the good things to last 414 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,520 forever and we don't want the bad things to last forever. 415 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,600 We get very stuck in all of that. 416 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,200 And so this is a way of liberating that, getting us 417 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,040 closer to, of course, the highest view, which is just 418 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,960 direct perception with no filter, with no grasping, with 419 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,560 no dualism. But that's extremely hard to do 420 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,840 because we're always in our mind, we're always labeling and, 421 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,760 you know, working with the kind of discursive relationship with 422 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,600 things. So the beauty of the Dharma 423 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,640 always is that it uses a skillful means, it brings it in, 424 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,800 you know, that to help us, to support us with something we're 425 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,680 already doing and help that thing we're already doing get 426 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,800 closer to what we want. This just naked bear awareness. 427 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,200 Damien's got it going on. What can I say? 428 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,440 I we're about out of time, so I'll leave the reader with or 429 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,040 listener with one way you can train in this. 430 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,960 And it came to me because of what you just said, Damien, it 431 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,480 is true that in our personal experience, when we wake up in 432 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,120 the morning, we wake up out of nowhere. 433 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,400 We are kind of blank canvas for a little bit. 434 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,120 It depends on how much you've got going on. 435 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,920 Sometimes you wake up right into thinking, but if you're a 436 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,320 practitioner, you know, there's a little gap there some of the 437 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,400 time. And in that gap, we get the road 438 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,960 is splitting and we get a choice. 439 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,240 I'm going to do what we always do. 440 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,680 It's Monday and what am I going to do? 441 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,600 Or this is a pure experience. And because this happens every 442 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,040 day, we get hundreds of opportunities every year. 443 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,840 So when you go to sleep at night, you can, you know, do 444 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,120 whatever your, your dream yoga practices is. 445 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:25,320 But before you engage in that, you just think, when I wake up 446 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,560 tomorrow, I'm going to arise in a pure ohm. 447 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,440 I'm going to arise in a pure ohm and I'm going to stay in that as 448 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,360 long as I can. And as long as you don't talk, 449 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:36,760 it's usually talking that drags you out, whether it's talking in 450 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,720 your mind to yourself or talking to your partner or somebody 451 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,040 else. You can keep this going usually. 452 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,400 And sometimes you can make it all the way to when you start 453 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,120 your session, which for me is like 15 minutes, you know, I got 454 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:52,480 to go out to the Hut and stuff. It's you wake up and you have a 455 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,680 choice there, and that choice you can you can lean toward. 456 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,200 I'm not going to judge this. Everything is the guru. 457 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,160 In this same practice I'm doing, you're supposed to wake up as an 458 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,920 accomplished being. Arise as Vimala Mitra, arise as 459 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,560 long Champa, arise as the guru, as Gurmache. 460 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,200 Whatever you get on, you're practicing and try to make it as 461 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,280 Gurmache all the way until you do your next thing and it maybe 462 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,880 let's get in the shower, maybe it's eat something, drink 463 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,800 coffee, whatever it is, start your meditation, whatever it is. 464 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,880 Once you can do that a little, you can return to it during the 465 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,120 day. And then tomorrow you get 466 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,880 another choice, another chance to practice this. 467 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,920 And that's like how we can really put into practice. 468 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,600 Maybe you only go 3 minutes, but we got 3 minutes of pure 469 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,720 experience in the middle of our, you know, 16 hour day or 470 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,200 whatever it is. And then once you can do it a 471 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,440 little bit, you might remember that it's 4:00 in the afternoon. 472 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,800 You're taking a break. You're like, I'm going to just 473 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,320 drink this sparkling water and relax here for a second. 474 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,400 And all of your sudden like it's still pure. 475 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,800 And maybe you can drink that sparkling water for three 476 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280 minutes in the middle of your pure experience. 477 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,920 And that's how you start to really poke holes in your 478 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,840 samsaric world. So I leave it with that, but 479 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,480 this has been excellent. Yeah, that's great. 480 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,320 I just wanted to say one thing. You can go back to the previous 481 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,440 episode we did on aspirations. But when Joe talks about how an 482 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,560 aspiration you, you have a thought that you hold for a 483 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,800 second and then you let it go and and you abide in the direct 484 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,400 experience, right. Well, I think this pure vision, 485 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,480 like you're saying is the same way you can be. 486 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,480 I am the llama. It's not I am the llama. 487 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,720 I am the llama. I am the llama. 488 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,400 Like there's it can be a tendency to like turn this into 489 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,320 another stressful conceptual thing. 490 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,800 It's just fire that, pull back and then let go, and then stay 491 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,120 in the purity like you're saying, for as long as you can. 492 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,920 And then when you notice you're out of it, you can pull back 493 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,000 another arrow and fire again and then get through just like that 494 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,160 and kind of string it through your day. 495 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,120 Beautiful. Yeah, so, Well, thank you so 496 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:57,880 much for watching. As always, please like share, 497 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,520 subscribe. And there's a new function on 498 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,040 YouTube, I don't know if you can do it, but it says hype. 499 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,040 You slide over from comments and you hype and you only get a 500 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,680 certain number of points per week. 501 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,600 But if you would feel inspired to hype our episode that that go 502 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,280 a really long way for boosting us in the algorithm. 503 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,920 It means it really helped you. So if you, if you feel that way, 504 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,760 I would really appreciate if you do that. 505 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,760 But in no matter what, no matter what you do or don't do, thank 506 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,400 you for watching. We appreciate you. 507 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,960 We're a nice little community. I feel connected to all of you. 508 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,120 I know Joe does, so we will see you again in a couple weeks.