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Welcome back everybody to the 
Denver Zochen Podcast. 

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I'm very excited today to not 
only have Joe Wagner with us as 

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per usual, but we also have our 
dear friend Ricky Coffin, who 

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you haven't met yet but has 
acted as the producer for this 

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show behind the scenes, putting 
together all those awesome 

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videos, making sure they're on 
YouTube, make sure they have all

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the tags and all of that techie 
stuff that we don't know how to 

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do. 
So we really appreciate Ricky. 

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And today Ricky's going to 
introduce himself and tell us a 

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little bit about his Dharma path
and how he came to Denver. 

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Zoke Chen. 
It'll be super fun to get into 

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it. 
Welcome, Ricky. 

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Great to see you. 
Welcome. 

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Thank you, Joe and Damian. 
It's great to be here with you 

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all. 
Thanks for the invitation. 

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And yeah, so my, my entryway 
into Buddhism, aside from 

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reading some books, maybe my 
late teens about Buddhism, I, I 

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didn't really get into it until 
about 20 years ago or so. 

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I was into yoga quite a bit. 
I anger yoga specifically like 

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kind of hatha yoga and learning 
about all the different type of 

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yoga philosophy and kind of that
whole world. 

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And I was doing a weekend 
workshop with a teacher. 

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Her name is Deborah Ann Robinson
and I didn't know much about her

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at the time. 
She was just one of the more 

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kind of senior level high Yangar
teachers who was travelling 

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through Denver. 
And I think it was on Sunday 

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morning for one of the sessions,
she offered a meditation class, 

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which it seemed to be a little 
bit different than the other 

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types of meditation offerings 
that the other teachers or the 

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studio offered. 
And some years later, I came to 

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find that she's a Tibetan 
Buddhist. 

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Trongo Rinpoche was her. 
You know her, her root llama and

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she actually is the director of 
his organization that he 

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founded, the Himalayan 
Children's Fund Foundation as 

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well. 
So really a lovely person, a 

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great teacher and that I think 
maybe planted some seeds. 

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And over the years, like since 
then I was exploring different 

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types of Buddhism, like Zen 
Buddhism, Theravada, you know, 

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going to retreats like a lot of 
us have done, like the passing, 

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the retreats and and so on. 
And then it was probably maybe 

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in like 2018 or so, I came 
across a quote by this person 

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above my head, Toko Arjun 
Richer. 

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And it's his well known quote 
about how basically everyone has

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the same Buddha nature. 
Like the only difference between

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the Buddha and everyone else is 
that the Buddha Buddha has 

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realized their, their true 
nature. 

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And when I, I still remember 
when I was reading through that,

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that, that text and I read that 
it was like a, like, I've seen 

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the world differently since 
then, you know, And that was 

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kind of my entryway into being 
more interested in, in Tibetan 

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Buddhism. 
And it took, it took a little 

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while, but I started, I live in,
I lived in Denver at the time. 

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I live pretty close to Denver 
now, but I, I was searching 

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online for local Tibetan 
Buddhist centers and I did find 

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Denver's ocean at at the time, 
but it took me a while to 

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actually reach out. 
And, and then of course, when 

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when I did reach out, it was 
like 2020 when all the COVID 

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shutdown was happening. 
So the group switched to Zoom at

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the time. 
And but yeah, that's how 

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basically I like to think Toko 
urgent Ricochet kind of 

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connected me with Joe and then 
Denver's Ochen. 

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So yeah. 
And it's been just absolutely 

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great since then. 
Yeah, it's, it's coming up on 

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six years since I've been 
practicing with you. 

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That's. 
Great. 

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Yeah, I totally think that 
there's something real to what 

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you're saying that that there's 
this connection to Total Origin 

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that people have who find 
Denver's Ochen. 

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I definitely think he's got his 
blessing is coming through Joe 

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and and leading the people who 
find this group who especially 

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the ones who really stick around
often have a strong connection 

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to Total Origin even if they 
didn't before they do 

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afterwards. 
So I think that that's an 

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amazing glue for our group. 
So once you connected, how did 

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you find yourself approaching 
this path and, and really taking

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it on because you know, it can 
be so daunting. 

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The Tibetan tradition is like 
massive. 

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And how did the group help you 
kind of follow that path? 

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Sure. 
Well, yeah, I think in the once 

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I was connected and I also 
during our first Tuesday night 

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session, I totally had my mind 
blown by the way and I was 

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quickly all in. 
It was kind of like drinking 

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from the the fire hydrant, the 
fire hose and you know how we 

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can go through these phases in 
our practice. 

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What, you know, I was like 
buying lots of books and trying 

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to, you know, practice with 
other, you know, offerings, 

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other teachers when they're 
offering stuff, whether it was 

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on Zoom or if they're traveling 
through. 

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And really just trying to kind 
of gain a better understanding 

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of like kind of the basics and 
the preliminaries. 

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And that, that led me to, I 
think it was maybe maybe like 

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four or five months into the 
practice, I, I started to ask 

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Joe about Nundro, you know, and 
then shortly thereafter started 

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to do it. 
So yeah. 

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And that was more or less my, my
main practice for a while. 

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It took me a little while. 
You know, my wife and I had our 

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first child and we bought our 
first house during the time and 

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I work full time jobs. 
So took me maybe a few years to,

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to do it. 
But you know, that that was also

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a, a transformative undertaking 
as well, which is still kind of 

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like coming to fruition or 
unraveling at this point. 

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And and you know, I want to I 
want to say I was thinking 

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about, you know, talking about 
Nundro. 

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And I also want to give some 
thanks to Joe because he makes 

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himself like very available not 
only to me, but to everyone in 

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the sangha. 
And at certain points in the 

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sangha, I was checking in with 
him everyday about my progress. 

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And that really helped me kind 
of keep, you know, my 

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accumulations going. 
And it helped me like, you know,

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things could get kind of bumpy 
when you're doing these big 

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practices and it's not all 
smooth sailing. 

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So, so thank you Joe for that as
well. 

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I thought it was very fun that 
that time when you and your wife

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Dana received your guys 
requested the transmission for 

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the Dundra. 
We did it outside because it was

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COVID. 
They didn't do it in your 

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backyard, in your garden. 
I thought that was a unique 

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experience in my life too and 
seemed to take so good. 

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Well, and, and also it was like 
it was in June, it was like a 

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Colorado blue sky day. 
And when you when you came over,

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like it rained for like a couple
of minutes. 

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I don't know if you remember 
that, but that was auspicious as

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well. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, it was a it's good, good 
connection. 

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It's been a good connection to 
have you in the group. 

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If I can ask you a question, I 
know that you were even 

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authorized to teach in the 
Theravada tradition before you 

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found our our group. 
I'd be curious just any 

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lightweight reflections you 
might have about the difference 

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between your involvement in 
Theravada path and then in the 

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Vajayana path? 
I'm just curious because I was 

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never involved in Theravada in 
any any serious way. 

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So I'm just curious when you 
look back like what you brought 

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with you, what you left behind, 
whatever, anything like that. 

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Sure. 
Yeah, a lot of my focus had 

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been, or my practice had focused
on like meta, you know, like 

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cultivating that compassion. 
It's in some ways it's similar, 

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you know, to certain aspects of 
our practice, but different and 

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slightly different in other 
ways. 

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But lots of that kind of like, 
you know, becoming familiar with

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the the sutras or the sutras, 
things like that. 

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And there can be a type of the, 
the possum that kind of like 

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body scanning exercise and a lot
of sitting also for long 

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periods. 
Maybe like with, I mean 

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sometimes with focus, sometimes 
with not focus. 

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But well, I guess there is 
probably a lot of focus on the 

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breath. 
You know, if you weren't like 

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thinking about anything else, it
was, it was usually like coming 

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back to the breath. 
So I, I do think that like in 

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one of the, the retreats I did 
at the center in Idaho, I was 

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sharing a tent with a guy who 
was a farmer. 

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And I was so glad in hindsight 
to have like a farmer as a 

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tentmate because he woke up 
really early every day and, and 

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he had like a very hard work 
ethic. 

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And, you know, before the 
retreat, like officially 

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started, we could talk to each 
other. 

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And then it was a violent vow of
silence afterward, you know, 

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after like the first night. 
And he was like, you know what, 

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I'm, I'm all in. 
Like, I'm going to like, wake up

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as early as I can and stay in 
the meditation hall as late as I

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can. 
You know, I'm here. 

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I might as well like do that and
I was like, that sounds good. 

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And I kind of copied, you know, 
he motivated me to do that. 

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So we were sitting for like 16 
hours a day and it was like a 10

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day thing. 
And you know, when you do that, 

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at least my, in my experience, 
like ice, you kind of go into 

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these different States and I, 
and then after that retreat, I 

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brought that practice home. 
I wasn't doing it for like 16 

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hours, but still like 4 hours a 
day of just sitting and doing 

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breath focus. 
And I do feel like that's helped

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my practice like moving forward 
in one way or another, like 

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everything, you know, we do kind
of leads to the next thing. 

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And you could find wisdom in it,
but just having that steady mind

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and being comfortable with pain 
or even like just observing it. 

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And yeah, that also like the, 
the meta meta practice that I 

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mentioned, you know, I've, I've 
really been drawn to like the 

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practices of a Bodhi Safa as 
well. 

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And that's something we've done 
with the Bodhi with the Denver's

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Ocean Group as well, like in our
kind of subgroup. 

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But I think that also kind of 
laid the the groundwork or 

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planted some seeds for me as 
well. 

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Yeah, yeah, So yeah. 
And when I mean when, when one 

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of my teachers like basically 
encouraged me to lean meditation

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for others. 
It was during a retreat and I 

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was having an interview with her
and she said something to the 

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effect that, you know, she 
noticed how well I was sitting 

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and, you know, for long periods.
And with the questions I was 

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asking her, she was like, well, 
I her sense was that other 

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people had those questions, you 
know? 

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So like she was trying to 
encourage me, you know, to kind 

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of have get out there with 
others and, you know, kind of 

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yeah, keep it, keep it going, 
you know? 

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Yeah. 
I was just wondering because 

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that's that's a pretty advanced 
level to get to. 

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You know, obviously your teacher
saw in you the qualities were 

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rising. 
And then I'm just curious how 

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that related to what you found 
in the Vajrayana tradition, 

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since at least from outside for 
many people, they seem very, 

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very different. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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I mean it is quite different in 
lots of ways as well. 

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Like now, you know, we can do 
different types of 

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visualizations and I don't know,
I don't want to. 

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I definitely feel like I 
resonate, resonate very closely 

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with with our path in the vibe. 
Rihanna, you know, sometimes we 

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talk about it like an 
accelerated path. 

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And yeah, I don't want to come 
off as like sounding negative 

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about any other traditions or 
anything. 

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But for me, it's like how I 
mentioned, even just reading 

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that quote by Tockel, Arjen and 
Perche was like a transformative

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moment for me. 
And there's been multiple 

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instances of that, you know, in 
the practices that either we've 

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done in our group or with other 
llamas all along the way. 

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I want to say that I think this 
is such a, it's such a great 

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foundation, right? 
Like I also came from hatha yoga

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and Vipassana before I got into 
Vajriana. 

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And I think that some of my 
success in this path really had 

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to do with having had that, 
having had time just sitting, 

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having had time working with the
body. 

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These are important parts of the
ground, even in the Tibetan 

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tradition, but they're often 
skipped over as that the way 

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it's presented in the West. 
So, you know, and Joe, you had 

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the Zen background of just 
sitting before you got into 

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Vajriana. 
I think there's probably 

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something to doing a little bit 
of that first before you really 

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get into the complex 
visualization and all of these 

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practices that just gaining that
stability of mind and some 

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Shamita and Vipassana can really
make it stick in a way that it 

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maybe wouldn't without it. 
Because you can, I've heard so 

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many people maybe even 
practicing Fadriana for 15 

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years. 
Like I can't visualize right. 

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Like I'll still say these sorts 
of things. 

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And I wonder if there isn't some
link between not having had a 

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foundation and Shamita that can 
really, you know, lead to some 

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00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,280
problems later on. 
And so I think that there's a 

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00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:33,600
real natural kind of progression
from the Theravada or Hiniana 

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vehicle to these upper vehicles 
of Mahayana and Vajriana and 

237
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Zokchen that it really is a 
perfect trajectory. 

238
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,440
Yeah, I think it's also worth 
saying that everybody's 

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00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,440
different and everybody that you
know, they say they're 84,000 

240
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,200
Dharma doors, one door for every
type of person. 

241
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,240
So some people might do the 
exact opposite. 

242
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,440
And I remember reading this, 
Stephen Bachelor, he was a monk 

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00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,760
in the Vajriana tradition for a 
long time, and then he got 

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00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,160
heavily into Theravada. 
I don't know where he is right 

245
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:09,319
now, but I think, you know, we 
have to keep our eyes open as 

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00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:12,440
practitioners. 
It's nice to hear Ricky say it 

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for those flags from the 
ultimate that are that are being

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waved in our face. 
So we know where to go next, you

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00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:21,280
know, because there's no, you 
know, of course you could have a

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00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,359
teacher and your teacher will 
tell you, but the teacher is 

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also within the tradition. 
And we're, you know, in the 

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West, we're open to many things.
We've, many of us came from a 

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00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,040
Christian background when we 
grew up And, and I know I 

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00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,600
studied a lot of Taoism and a 
lot of Tai chi and energy 

255
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,280
practices. 
And there's just so many things 

256
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,560
out there. 
You want to keep your, your 

257
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,080
field open because you never 
know. 

258
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,280
For you, Ricky, it was a quote 
by Tulka Woods. 

259
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,520
And for somebody else, it might 
be something from the Poly 

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00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,480
cannon that is like, Oh my God, 
that's the way to go. 

261
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,960
And, and you know, we, we want 
to follow the bent of our own 

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00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,080
genius, like Thoreau said. 
So I appreciate you bringing 

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00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,640
that up, Ricky, because not, you
know, we say, oh, yeah, and the 

264
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,040
Tibetans frame it that Terravada
Mahayana Vajriana. 

265
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,280
But it doesn't have to be that 
way for everyone, right? 

266
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,040
It might be that you start with 
Vajriana that didn't ring true 

267
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,280
for you. 
And so then, you know, when I 

268
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,920
got into the pasta, then it 
really went great for me or 

269
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,920
whatever. 
So I wouldn't, we're not just 

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00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,120
selling vajriana, even though of
course it is the best. 

271
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,080
Oh wait, what? 
I say. 

272
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,400
When I got an experience like 
you did, Joe, I'm also a bit of 

273
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,160
a heretic. 
And This is why I really 

274
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,160
appreciate Joe's that I 
encountered Ramana Maharshi and 

275
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,880
it was his teachings on The Who 
am I that like blew my shamata 

276
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,640
open because I started to like 
open my field of awareness. 

277
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,280
So there's so many Dharma doors,
even maybe outside of what might

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00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,400
be considered quote UN quote 
Dharma. 

279
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,000
Absolutely. 
That's well said. 

280
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,960
So Ricky, you've been involved 
now six years. 

281
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,240
It's incredible that that's, 
it's been that it's gone by 

282
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,080
really quickly, at least from my
perspective. 

283
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,240
And, and in fact, you're even 
sitting in the dark retreat 

284
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,920
facility that we built. 
So like lots of different things

285
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,520
have happened. 
What's going on with Denver's 

286
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,520
ocean from your perspective 
right now? 

287
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,000
Like what are you involved in? 
What are the what are the things

288
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,800
that are interesting that are 
happening right now? 

289
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,600
Yeah, there's, there's a lot of 
great momentum happening with 

290
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,960
the group right now. 
We have our, you know, for folks

291
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,160
tuning in that maybe you're just
listening, there's, we have our 

292
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,840
weekly sessions on Tuesday night
via Zoom. 

293
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,440
And yeah, there's always great 
practice, great discussion going

294
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,440
on. 
Lots of, yeah, lots of active 

295
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,280
members going happening right 
now in in our sangha, which is 

296
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,560
really great. 
And you know, we, we have lots 

297
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,760
of projects going on as well. 
And we've had some podcast 

298
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:56,080
episodes about that, like the 
not a discs and and so on. 

299
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,760
You know, one thing I'm working 
on kind of behind the scenes is 

300
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,800
putting together a documentary 
on our prostration. 

301
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:13,680
Pilgrimage that we we've done 
twice so far and I think we're 

302
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,360
planning to do it again next 
year. 

303
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:22,080
So and Joe and I, we were 
talking about this idea, you 

304
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:28,560
know, to try to try to prostate,
you know, to a, a holy or 

305
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,800
auspicious place. 
You know and like they do in in 

306
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:40,480
Tibet and Nepal and Crestone 
Colorado came to mind as like, 

307
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,440
you know, maybe the best place 
in the country out here to do it

308
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,360
because of all the centers and 
there's two well, there's a 

309
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,480
number of stupas there, but we, 
we chose to star that the Toko 

310
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:58,120
urgent Ruperchet stupa and 
prostate straight to the 16th 

311
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:02,120
cars come off with stupa. 
So I think the, the first year 

312
00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,560
we did it was 2023, right? 
Yeah. 

313
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,160
And we did it again in 2024. 
And we, we have some, you know, 

314
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,160
some footage from that. 
So yeah, we're planning on 

315
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:21,760
putting out a documentary about 
it, you know, to, to get it out 

316
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,800
there and really to try to psych
people up, which is, you know, 

317
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,840
what we love doing to motivate 
them. 

318
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,120
I know they're maybe even before
I did the Nundro, I had like a 

319
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,960
little bit of aversion to doing 
prostrations, but now I'm like, 

320
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,120
I know why they do it, you know?
I know why they do these trips, 

321
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,560
you know, and even what we do, 
it's like, I don't know, just 

322
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,520
under 5 miles or something like 
that. 

323
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:48,440
Joe, is that? 
Right. 

324
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,280
Yeah, a little. 
Bit and it takes about half a 

325
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:57,160
day or so to do it. 
And and that's been another one 

326
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,360
of those big transformative 
experiences that I've had and 

327
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,760
it's nice because some members 
of our song and come and it's a 

328
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,840
you know, well, we'll spend a 
couple nights out there and have

329
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,560
meals together and so on visit 
the different centers in the 

330
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,520
area as well. 
So that's yeah, that's been a a 

331
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,840
great thing. 
Maybe one of the things I look 

332
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,760
forward most to, you know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

333
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:27,400
Well, would you? 
Talk a little bit more about 

334
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,320
this element of Sanga that we 
we've been recently discussing 

335
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,480
this part of the the sutras 
where the Buddha says that the 

336
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,840
whole of the path is our 
spiritual friendships, right? 

337
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,400
That these that, you know, like 
you guys are my friends and we 

338
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,960
hardly have ever met in person. 
Ricky and I have never met in 

339
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,640
person, but we have this like 
daily sanga support in a way 

340
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,760
that that that's the missing 
piece I think in the Western 

341
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,280
Sangas. 
Is this really like actually if 

342
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,200
you want it every day we get to 
talk and support each other on 

343
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,760
our path. 
As you were saying with Joe, 

344
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,760
when you're doing Nundro, 
because it is so hard to 

345
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,760
maintain your motivation if 
you're just like grinding away 

346
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,720
at prostrations alone, that can 
be really difficult. 

347
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,320
But we have really such a good 
community of people supporting 

348
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,320
each other, all with different 
llamas and centers all over the 

349
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,200
country or even the world. 
But we come together and then 

350
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,400
actually have this support on a 
level that's more Western, you 

351
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,120
know, with the accessibility of 
WhatsApp or or podcast or Zoom 

352
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,960
meetings that really facilitate 
something like a real Sanga. 

353
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,440
And so maybe you could share a 
little bit how Sanga has been 

354
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,280
like an important part of your 
path. 

355
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,920
Sure. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

356
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,720
It's been, you know, a kind of a
critical crucial part and 

357
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,760
another great aspect of this 
group. 

358
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,480
And, you know, I, I'll get 
together with Joe, you know, we 

359
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,840
might have tea and talk about 
practice and Dharma and planning

360
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,880
and stuff like that as often as 
we can, you know, whether that's

361
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,760
like once a month or three times
a month. 

362
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,280
But a lot of the interaction I 
have with song is like through 

363
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,360
WhatsApp, like you mentioned, 
Damian, and it's extremely 

364
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,680
convenient. 
And yeah, I have to say, like I 

365
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,800
mentioned before, you know, Joe 
is very gracious with his time. 

366
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:32,720
If I ever have a question about 
something like a certain kind of

367
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,440
aspect of a practice, that's 
like not in the text, the 

368
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,160
teacher didn't mention it, It's 
not in the commentary. 

369
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,880
You can't Google it. 
Like you have to know, you know,

370
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,240
from just being a part of this 
world. 

371
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:53,200
And probably 9 times out of 10 
or even more than 9 times, you 

372
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,360
know, Joe typically knows the 
answer or knows who to ask, you 

373
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:02,920
know, So that's been, you know, 
I don't know, I, I'd be missing 

374
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,840
out on that, you know, without 
this group. 

375
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,560
And Damien, you know a lot about
Dharma through all of your 

376
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,160
practice and diligence. 
And you are also very available 

377
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,680
as well. 
So thank you too. 

378
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:23,040
You know, you can definitely 
tell this is like one of the 

379
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,560
most important, if not most 
important things in your life. 

380
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,680
So. 
So yeah, I have. 

381
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,520
And there's other people like 
that in the group, you know, 

382
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,960
varying levels of practice, you 
know, from like decades and 

383
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,080
decades to maybe less than than 
a year. 

384
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,760
And a lot of people also have 
experience in other traditions 

385
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,600
like like we've been talking 
about. 

386
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:53,480
So it's really interesting to 
have access to to those types of

387
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,200
people. 
And you know, if someone might 

388
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,880
say something during one of our 
group sessions and whether it's 

389
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,120
something I bring up, you know, 
they might reach out to me 

390
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:11,520
one-on-one to talk about why I'm
experiencing this or vice versa.

391
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,600
You know, and I think there's a 
lot of those kind of individual 

392
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,440
or one-on-one, you know, 
conversations going on as well. 

393
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,440
We have different like subgroups
as well. 

394
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,080
So, yeah, it's been, it's been 
great. 

395
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,120
And, you know, I'm thinking of a
quote that one of my terrible 

396
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,280
teachers said, you know, song is
like, you know, if you think of 

397
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,600
Buddha kind of like 
trailblazing, you know, with the

398
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:43,960
Dharma And then like our job or,
you know, part of our path as 

399
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,880
part of the song, it is to like 
kind of keep on going on the 

400
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,640
trail, you know, to, to keep the
the trail open so that those who

401
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,200
come after us can still hike on 
it, you know, So it's kind of 

402
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,480
like that, yeah. 
When we have such a deep, like I

403
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,720
was mentioning earlier about 
total origin, it's not just 

404
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,400
total origin, it's lineage, 
right? 

405
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,760
Like there's really a feeling of
lineage. 

406
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,360
That's one of the really magical
things I think of Denver's oak 

407
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:14,400
chin is that you feel like, I 
don't know if about you, but I 

408
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,120
feel connected to Chukchurlingpa
and his Terema lineage and 

409
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,520
obviously Gur Rinpoche that that
that the blessing are there. 

410
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,040
And if you just tap into that 
through Sangha, then you really 

411
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,120
have like a magnetic force that 
can really help you along the 

412
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,320
path. 
And that's one of the special 

413
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,000
features of the Vajriana, right?
Like in Theravada, they don't 

414
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,960
need to focus on that as much 
the kind of living aspect of the

415
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,320
lineage. 
And that is just really, I think

416
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,480
huge part of this group. 
And you know, the different 

417
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,640
teramas and teachings that Joe 
teaches to our group keep us 

418
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,320
connected to this living thing 
that that, like you said, this 

419
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,960
trailblazed thing, we're getting
pulled right into it and it 

420
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,440
really makes it fun and easy and
keeps us going. 

421
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,760
Yeah, the psych up aspect of 
song goes really good. 

422
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,440
Sometimes they say that 
Buddhism, to be a Buddhist, you 

423
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,480
have to think there's a goal, 
you have to think there's a path

424
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,680
to get to that goal, and you 
have to have friends on the 

425
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,480
path. 
Well, this is the friends aspect

426
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,520
and I'm happy to count you guys 
as some of my closest friends. 

427
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,840
It's really a treat, you know, 
it's not like I'm in charge, 

428
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,480
nothing like that. 
We're all working together to 

429
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,720
keep the song going, to grow it 
through these podcasts or 

430
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,560
various projects. 
Ricky's being all humble about 

431
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,080
the documentary, but he also 
produces this podcast every two 

432
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,240
weeks and gives US ideas for new
things and gets people to join 

433
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,360
us. 
And he's making another movie 

434
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,000
about our Bay Yule that we have 
in the mountains. 

435
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,360
And it's just really, he's been 
a major factor in this group 

436
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,800
continuing to grow. 
So we, I want to say thank you 

437
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,840
so much Ricky for being both on 
the podcast and for being such a

438
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,720
strong member of our saga. 
And I, I have the privilege of 

439
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,480
living only a few miles from 
Ricky, so I get to see him more 

440
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,640
frequently than other people. 
And it's a very, very good part 

441
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,720
of my path, a good support for 
me as well. 

442
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,560
So we appreciate you being here,
really. 

443
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,560
Yeah, so we're coming up on 1/2 
an hour, Ricky. 

444
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,880
Oh, there's some closing 
thoughts you'd like to share 

445
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,160
about, you know, what what this 
group is and and how you'd like 

446
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,480
to see its future go. 
And you know how you see new 

447
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,440
people playing a part in that. 
Everything you're having to do 

448
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,520
with our Sanga. 
Sure. 

449
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:40,600
Yeah, yeah, I, I see, you know, 
just US continuing to, you know,

450
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:48,280
make progress on the path and 
welcome new members and, you 

451
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,240
know, continue to do the 
prostration pilgrimage. 

452
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,080
So hopefully more of our group 
members can come along with 

453
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,880
that. 
And if anyone listening to this 

454
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,720
is interested, you know, if it 
kind of piques your interest at 

455
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,960
all, feel free to to reach out, 
you know, to to get more info 

456
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,080
about that. 
You know, sometimes people even 

457
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,040
just walk it because it is 
pretty physical or you can do a 

458
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,240
prostration every once in a 
while and walk it. 

459
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,280
Or we also need support as well 
for that. 

460
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,280
So, yeah, thinking up like 
thinking big, you know, and 

461
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,880
coming up with these different 
projects that we're doing. 

462
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,040
So I'm sure we're going to be 
doing more projects that like we

463
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,640
haven't even thought about yet. 
So yeah, when I think about it, 

464
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,000
it's just kind of exciting. 
Like there's lots of potential, 

465
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,800
you know, in the air in for for 
the group. 

466
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,320
And and yeah, we also, we 
haven't, I don't think we 

467
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,520
mentioned there's a Wednesday 
night in town group that where 

468
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:03,560
we have in person meditation at 
my wife and I's yoga studio in 

469
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,360
Denver and we have a kind of a 
different song and there's a 

470
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,760
little blending of those. 
So I think I see that group 

471
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,720
growing as well. 
So yeah, I just see lots of 

472
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,840
potential and furthering of 
practice and spreading of of 

473
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,640
their Dahmer. 
Thank you so much, Ricky, for 

474
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,680
all that you do for making this 
podcast. 

475
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,520
We've been doing this for over a
year now, which is amazing. 

476
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,960
And and we continue to have 
stuff to talk about, which is 

477
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,200
also amazing. 
And it's just great that we have

478
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,720
your support for that 
technological side because 

479
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,440
there's a lot of, it takes a lot
of work to put this out. 

480
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,600
You know, it seems like a simple
thing, but it really is. 

481
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,360
So thank you so much and thank 
you for being part of this 

482
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,720
sangha and glad to call you one 
of my closest Vaja brothers. 

483
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,200
And yeah, I I look forward to 
the future activities of 

484
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,320
Denver's Ocean. 
And I'm sure we'll have you back

485
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,040
on sometime when we have these 
new projects, the documentary, 

486
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,880
etcetera to talk about these 
things. 

487
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,920
So thank you very much and thank
you to all you listeners who 

488
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,240
watch this show. 
We really appreciate you slowly 

489
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,240
growing to see more views and 
comments all the time. 

490
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,520
I really appreciate all of that.
That helps other people also see

491
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,360
this who might fit the tendril 
of our group. 

492
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,200
And thank you so much, and we'll
see you next time.