The Hello, happy holidays and welcome to the extra credits of
Timothy Chalamet and his newest movie, Marty Supreme.
I'm Trey. And I'm Kelsey.
We're back talking about the Christmas cinema king himself
with Chalamet, who is now starred in a film dropping
around Christmas time like five times in the last five or six
years, which is pretty awesome. He has Little Woman six years
ago. Don't look up.
Wonka a complete unknown now. Marty Supreme and next year Dune
Part 3. Yeah, he is a Christmas boy.
I didn't realize until you pointed it out.
But and then also we talked about this a little bit on our
Hamnet episode, but you also kind of recognize that Paul
Meskel is more of our Thanksgiving boy.
He is, yes, And then Josh O'Connor is year round.
A lot of maybe too many white boys during the holidays.
Maybe we need to switch it up. Marty Supreme is a really good
movie. Go see it.
Yes. I highly recommend it.
It's great. It is.
It is great. And I've liked thinking about it
the more we've sat with it over the last month.
We had a really early critic screening, probably the earliest
screening we've had in a long time for a movie.
Yeah. It's been a long time in between
since we last. Saw it, it was like 5 weeks ago.
And so today we're having a spoiler deep dive discussion, I
would say in about 15 minutes. So go to the time stamp if you
want to go straight to that conversation because at the top
here I want to ask you, how are you feeling with the Timothy
Chalamet Star Power marketing campaign right at the top?
Well, first I, I do want to say before we go into to Timmy, if
you are choosing for your like, you know, Christmas family
movie, you go to the movie theaters like you're one of
those families. If you're choosing between
Avatar and Marty Supreme, go see Marty Supreme.
Agreed. Yeah.
I mean, see both, but yeah, see Supreme, Yeah, yeah.
Anyway. Clearly, we're not big Avatar
people. Well, yeah, unclear whether or
not we'll cover that movie. Yeah, if we do, it'll be pure
like, I think parody, like I don't think, I don't think it'll
be very serious. I don't think people, yeah, I
don't think Avatar fans will enjoy listening to us talk about
Avatar. We could do an avatar hater
episode. We could do, I think, yeah, for
like the the Avatar haters only, like, we could just put a big
disclaimer, like if you like Avatar or like I watched Fern
Gully growing up also like, that's cool.
But this is not for this episode's not for you.
This is only for the haters because, yeah, like I think
Avatar is this interesting project which we're going to do
Titanic on the Patreon this month for James Cameron.
So we'll be talking about it on the yeah.
So we'll be talking about Avatar, I guess a little bit.
But I feel like, you know, Avatar this like huge movie, you
know, mega box office hit. But like I don't know anyone in
my life who like actually likes Avatar.
So it's this confusing situation, but I do know
obviously people are out there. It's become a meme at this point
about whether or not Avatar has a cultural footprint like, and
if it doesn't, what does that say about movie making right
now? What does it say about franchise
films and IP films? And it doesn't say anything
good. It doesn't say anything good
about the the state of movies. What's strange about the Avatar
fandom is that people protect those movies as if they're
independent films. And like, proportionally, if you
look at the budget to what those movies bring in, it's not like,
like, yes, they're making $2 billion a pop, but they also
cost like $500 million. So within the Timmy marketing
vein that we're about to talk about, I think Avatar has had a
really successful like marketing just strategy of being like this
is this is the first time this has ever been done, James
Cameron. Created this technology with his
bare hands. James Cameron invented the light
bulb. Like it's.
Yeah. So I think like that also too,
just general audiences and it coming out at like the time it
does. And it's a a good, I guess, like
family action movie that feels like a, a type of movie that was
made in the 90s and 2000s, you know?
Very formulaic story with incredible imaginative world
building. So it's like it it's essentially
like this generation's like Braveheart or something, right?
Like it's it's in a similar vein anyway.
So OK, this is Marty Supreme podcast from but.
But it's December, these are the two big movies out, so yeah, it
makes sense to have a conversation.
But let's talk about Timmy. Let's do it.
He is channeling like early 2010's Shia LaBeouf right now,
like pre problematic Shia LaBeouf, if that ever existed.
He's Oh my God. Which is to say for people who
don't know, what I mean by that is that he is teetering on like
crashing out, but in a very entertaining way.
We are kind of unapologetically Timothy Chalamet super fans,
like we have been since the beginning.
We're the same age as this guy. We've a lot of the same interest
based on what he said on red carpets or interviews.
We have share similar sensibilities outside of not
being theater kids ourselves. We grew up in a similar time of
being obsessed with pop culture, he has said.
You know, this is kind of a notable reference that he was
inspired to become an actor by watching Heath Ledger and
Christian Bale in The Dark Knight in 2008 and being.
He was also in that IMAX with us.
Yeah, truly. And so like he he is one of us,
if you will, right. And so we're big fans and I know
he's got his own kind of like hater dumb with his fandom.
So we'll talk about them a little bit today.
But I think it's fair to say that he has hit a level of fame
right now that only a few actors in Hollywood have ever been at.
Well, it's kind of wild that he is at a third stage because
like, I think that most people know who like know his name at
least, right? Know Timothy Chalamet because of
Dune specifically because this is a sci-fi movie that general
audiences like want to see. And obviously Dune just like
such a huge like story in our culture.
But. And I think Wonka has more of a
footprint that people want to admit that made like $700
million. It was a family.
Movie Wonka I was like out on but you kind of talked me into
it in terms of like when we were growing up we did not have kids
movies that were looking at like the institution of religion.
So like that, you know what? I I?
Which is a big theme to throw out that film.
It's also just a really entertaining.
A little bit too much singing for me, yeah.
But yeah, I think Wonka, you're right.
It is like he was Willy Wonka, you know?
So, yeah, I think that he has like been in the general
consciousness, although I don't know how many people outside of
like, movie circles really tuned in into him besides like,
younger audiences or people who are like, on Twitter, like
online. But he is at a certain stage, at
a very early time in his career that he is able to meme himself,
which is like basically Shia LaBeouf has only has been the
other person who has. Done this Jennifer Lawrence but.
But Shia LaBeouf, like to, I guess to my point, got a jump
start for being a Disney Channel star, you know, like he has been
able to be in the general consciousness for a long time
where then he was meaning himself.
But it feels like Timmy, like fast track that right?
Sort of, yeah. He went from like independent
sad boy king to then I star in future franchises where you're
still sort of questioning like, well, he's not the most like
traditionally masculine like protagonist figure as Paula
Tradies in the first student film.
And that's OK. Like this is I think it's
symbolic actually of like healthy gender conversations
with young millennials and Zelenials and Gen.
Z alike. But after the first Dune, I
remember thinking, I was like, I don't know if this is the route
he wants to go in. I don't know if he'll ever be
able to do, like, I'm a stoic Prince turned king turned
fascist. And then we saw do Part 2, and
we're like, oh, fuck. He's like, he is.
He's ham. Yeah.
Like, he's really great. And so I think Shia had that
kind of career trajectory, except he really did have a
crash out in real life, which we don't need to discuss.
But he just is reminding me of, like, that early Shia LaBeouf.
What kind of everywhere? Is like Shia watching all his
movies like crying to his movies?
Like it feels like that is exactly, exactly where Timothy
Chalamet is at right now, doing the whole like fake zoom
conference. But yes.
And making all the advertisements happen from that
Zoom conference. Yes.
OK, So putting aside the big two, which are Tom Cruise and
Denzel Washington as like the only actors to transcend being
actors in Hollywood who they feel like their names are as big
as Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott or Martin Scorsese, which
is rare, if not bigger, right? Those names are huge.
I think, you know, I was trying to think of some names to
compare Shalami's career trajectory, and the Shia stuff
is mostly a joke. I think in terms of him being a
pop cultural icon. That's what we mean with Shia,
in terms of his actual power as an actor and his performances.
His young rise of going from like Call Me By Your Name on
really reminds you of like a Jodie Foster going from Taxi
Driver on reminds you of a Natalie Portman going from her
young career into Star Wars. Obviously Leonardo DiCaprio
being a huge. He's like, obviously the
biggest. Comp Christian Bale too, in
terms of being a huge comp of a young star, you know, growing up
to be an adult star. I think Jennifer Lawrence is my
favorite comp to make with Chalamet outside of Christian
Bale or Leo, just because he seems like somebody.
Chalamet seems like someone who's so inspired by like the YA
actors who are able to use their franchise capital.
You know, I guess, Jennifer. Lawrence stuff.
Yeah, did do something similar where she was like very much
herself in the media. Yes, Emma Stone.
Yeah, but I mean, but Jennifer Lawrence like has AI think a
like a bigger personality than Emma Stone, right?
So like reminds me of what Timmy's doing.
But The thing is, like, there are named like Harrison Ford or
George Clooney. There's levels of like masculine
fame that I don't think will ever exist again that like
people like Austin Butler trying to get to that I think are
purposely being trying to be like reclaimed by Hollywood.
But like, I'm not really sure if I want this Hollywood.
Yeah. Yeah.
And so like, I think there's like a lot of people who do want
that, but I think they're mostly in bubbles in America right now.
Yeah. I didn't see the movie with the
Olsen sister, Elizabeth Olsen, but the Miles Teller, like
Callum Turner is kind of an example.
Like I didn't see it, Like I don't know if it's good or
whatever, but like that is an example of trying to like
reclaim also that type of masculinity that you're also
talking about with Austin Butler.
I just, I couldn't find the best comp and I was trying to be
like, where is Chalamet at right now?
Right under 30 years old? He's with those names.
But I just kept coming back to Tom Cruise in Denzel Washington.
I kept coming back to those two and I think Tom.
Cruise is a really good. I I think those are both those
are the peak actors like I, I used to argue.
Like, I don't know, I I think. You're saying like he's not to
Denzel, but I'm saying like at the age of 30, like if you look
at Tom Cruise's career, you look at Denzel's career, he's in a
very similar space right now and career trajectory victory.
The only like worst case scenario for Timmy, he becomes
Keanu Reeves at this point, which is like a a mega star, you
know what I mean? Like who cares at that point?
That's still really impressive, but he's just at a place, right?
Now I'm laughing because it would be just like weird to see
Timmy. Basically what he's doing is
like trying to what I want to first say is like, I love Keanu
Reeves. OK, That laugh was not like, oh
ha ha, he'll become Keanu Reeves.
Keanu Reeves is a better actor than like it's kind of funny
that you brought up like the movie stars that don't exist
anymore, like a George Clooney and the J Kelly, right, Which
we'll probably talk about on our end of your pod.
We've. Finished that yet?
Is kind of like making a comment about actors like Keanu Reeves
who are like better actors than George Clooney, at least in my
opinion. Everyone but like Billy Crudup
kind of plays this role who is straight up a better actor than
George Clooney. And they make a total comparison
there like, but that that is really interesting.
But it would be wild to see Timmy who is kind of like, it's
interesting because we talked about this last night, right?
We were like, Timmy is such a Zelenial, like, like us, right?
Where he's like, if I'm going to be in a movie, if I'm going to
like, star in a movie, why wouldn't I do everything in my
power to try to like, get people to go see this movie?
Like why wouldn't I like make my own luck?
Yeah, why would I be embarrassed by this?
Or. Humble of that, why would I do
the bare minimum of the press run like and I think we see you
know, I think while Tom Cruise is a great example of kind of
the the public awareness and and and like press and and space
that he is taking up in the in the general like consciousness
being so online like that is a good comparison Tom Cruise and
Timmy. But I think with like Leo, for
example, that's really interesting because Leo is this
huge, you know, heartthrob in the 90s.
Like I, you know, we're going to talk about this on Titanic, but.
Turned to like bad boy departed. In the thousands, yeah.
But I was like in love with him, you know, from Titanic.
Like obviously a very iconic movie with like the Jack
character. But also Marty Supreme is really
similar to a Catch Me If You Can vibe.
Right. That's more Leo.
Vibe, which I think we'll definitely talk about today when
we start getting into the movie. But I think here it's like
interesting because Leo, I mean, social media wasn't there in the
same way, but I don't think we see Leo.
Like, Leo has had the kind of like, privilege to be like this
white guy in Hollywood who doesn't have to give any of
himself and actually is like, I want to remain mysterious.
There's a privacy. Yeah, do the playbook of like, I
can become a character because no one knows who I really AM.
And Timmy's like. But also I think I think some of
that that has to do with him not like willing to also just like
possibly be. I think there's a lot of like
probably stars who are men who are like, I don't want to look
stupid is what what I absolutely like.
I don't want to be silly. I don't want to appear.
To be the mystery is sexy, and they're leaning into that as
opposed to being like fragile men who are 50 years old,
obsessed with 25 year old woman. And when you started
interrogating that, you're like, you're kind of a creep.
Yeah, like 100%. And you and you, like, forget
about that when you watch their interview because they are just
doing like this. Yeah, they're putting on a mask.
Yeah, they're always performing. And not that they and again,
we're not like arguing for celebrities.
We're not into celebrity culture.
We don't need besides Timmy and like people of our generation,
but because I respect what they're doing.
But but I'm not saying like, you know, celebrities need to give
us like all. Like I don't I would never read
anything that's like, here's all the details about Leonardo
Dicaprio's life and a deep dive interview of him.
Like I don't care about that. I'm just saying that like I
think that the whole like Timmy press run is so funny one,
because he's kind of like memeing this idea of celebrity.
He's he's aware of it. He's also, though, taking it
seriously to be like, I'm going to try to get people to go to
the movie theater and see my movie.
Why wouldn't I do that? But then like, and the other
part of that is that when we see this negative response to what
Timmy's doing, it feels like almost how Jennifer Lawrence was
treated in the media of like, you're trying too hard.
You're like doing too much kind of thing.
And it to me, it just feels like trying to make news out of news,
you know, pop culture news. Exactly.
Yeah. Like maybe you people find him
annoying, whatever, but I that that's fine.
But like, it's not like they're having their actual criticism
about, you know, like white like boys running Hollywood or like
only getting out. They're not like, actually
having like, interesting criticisms.
Which is a conversation that needs to be had and that Shalom
is sort of starting to acknowledge in the press, which
I'll bring up a quote he had a couple days ago, which is
important about that, about how he's getting opportunities and
he's trying to take advantage of those.
And he's trying to go 10,000% because there are a lot of
better actors than him that he's friends with her, he meets on a
daily basis. And he's like, you should have
these opportunities. Not me.
It's because I'm going to have them.
I'm not going to say no, but if I'm going to say yes, I'm not
going to be so humble about it. I'm going to be like, let me
like utilize this capital to the best of my ability.
Let me. Stand on the tallest spear in
Las Vegas. In the world.
And make it a ping pong ball. I think this, the kind of
divisiveness around Timothy Chalamet started at the Golden
Globes with that speech that I'm, I think you're right.
I'm in pursuit of greatness. I want to be like Michael
Jordan, Viola Davis, Daniel Day Lewis.
I want to be one of the greats. And when he said that and it was
like, I want to be one of the greats.
The reason that resonated for better and for worse across
audiences who are interested in like films like cinephiles or
critics or just regular people who saw that, you know, clip hit
TikTok or YouTube Shorts, whatever.
The reason that hit is because he, in that acknowledgement of
wanting to be good at something or great at something, he kind
of shed, he shedded that faux humble tortured artist stuff
that just does not work anymore. It doesn't work for young people
in particular. Everyone knows that Hollywood
artists are millionaires. They're fucking millionaires.
They make so much money. They, you know, the, the
obviously the top 1% are millionaires is what I'm saying.
And so the faces that we see all the time on streamers or in
theaters, these people are not the ones calling for success.
So when they talk about that, they are those independent
artists that are calling for success.
We can all sense the bullshit. And it feels like we're watching
The Capital and The Hunger Games.
And so Timothy Chalamet. On Patreon, which is, but it's a
great comparison, yeah. Ironically, even though he's
like, you know, dating a Jenner, Kardashian, whatever.
What's her name again? Kylie.
Jenner, Kylie Jenner. And ironically, because he like
dresses like Kanye on red carpets and does like fashion
shows, Timothy Chalamet does seem like like he's a part of
the capital capital, but very critical of it.
So there's like a meta relationship that a lot of his
fans have to his success. And I think he has to his own
success. And I think because it was so
refreshing to hear a successful celebrity and actor like him say
that about being like, yes, I'm going this hard and maybe this
is my only moment because these are projects I care about that I
think are important was really cool.
And it's really cool because it seems like somebody's like
Hollywood is a capitalist machine.
And it's not just a bunch of us like independent artists working
like we're all we're all not Kelly Reichardt here, right?
And sometimes these people act like they are.
And so it's fucking. Frustrating to hear that,
especially when we like hear about actors or like every, you
know, major director commentary, which are all like white men and
like, yes, like we love some of them, but like is all framed on
and they're like where they started, you know, like talking
about like when they grew up, like framing them as if it's
like this meritocracy story that becomes really like tired for I
think, you know, most people who are really keyed into movies
like have an awareness of like the business of of Hollywood.
I however, in saying all that, I do think the marketing for Marty
Supreme is testing the limits of like how much Chalamet people
can have in their lives. It's been a heavy press run and
I mean it works ultimately because.
We're not even, we're not even at like prime Oscar time, OK?
We're not. It's.
Going to get crazier. Yeah.
I mean, the movie press is over, but in terms of Chalamet talking
about wanting to be great, that's going to continue because
he's doing a bit sort of. And I think one of the reasons
that the press run hasn't irked me really at all is because he's
so he's such a talented entertainer.
He's just so entertaining to watch and or listen to.
Even if he sounds pretentious, you're just like he has a, there
is a Kanye sensibility of like, I'm just talking my shit and
just saying things that feel like out of nowhere, out of left
field, but somehow he kind of forms it all and makes it makes
it make sense. Not saying Kanye does that
anymore, but like a a sort of pre Trump Kanye, if you will.
But for Timmy, he keeps switching up his persona and his
vibe. So it feels like we're getting a
new version of him. It feels like there's a second
performance to all of his Movies Now, if that makes sense.
Like every new press run when he was doing.
You know, the press for Dune 4 or five years ago and him and
Zendaya were on the, you know, those, those cool front pages of
those magazines of those, those virtual shots of them in the
sand dunes with Austin Butler. It was really cool for the Dune
press cycle. And he was in interviews
sounding like all poetic and like King like because he's this
young Prince and dude, he's like the new Luke Skywalker to then
going to Bob Dylan where he sounds very soulful and like
enigmatic, like Bob Dylan, right.
And he's dressing up like him on the red carpet.
He's walking around with guitars and shit like he's being very
but he's also like doing Beyblade shit on red carpets.
He's doing he's doing the Soulja Boy with Brittany Broski.
He's going on Theo Von's podcast being like, I just heard about
you yesterday. It's very strange decision to
make, but he's like he's, he's performing like how we're just
sing with Leo, but he's performing to get people to go
to theaters rather than performing to protect something
about himself. Well, I feel like the Bob.
Dylan way more admirable. Yeah.
And the Bob Dylan actually pressed on is like where this.
Yeah, where this started, where you're talking about the the
specific speech that maybe turned older critics also off of
like, who does this kid think he is?
Like, you don't just like, say you want to be great and you
don't just, you know, put yourself out there like that.
You kind of like should play the game in a certain way also.
I mean, I think yes, it's cool. I I also did think it was
cringy. Like, I know we didn't feel the
same way about the speech, but that's fine.
Like. The Golden Globes.
Speech, like I thought it was cool, but it's just a lot to,
like, put yourself in the same, like, breath as a lot of people.
It's whatever, yeah. It's cringey to be like overly
humble, if that makes sense, when you're super successful,
because it feels condescending to the rest of us, if that makes
sense, because we can see your success and we see your money
and we see your clout. And to not acknowledge it feels
like you're slapping us in the face a little bit when you look.
Because I mean, America is such a capitalist machinery of like
celebrities anyways, from business leaders to like
Hollywood. So when you see people be like,
my roots were really hard to like, shut the fuck up.
You make like 10s of millions of dollars a year.
And so for Timmy, it was kind of nice to hear someone go, this
industry is kind of fucked. And there's a reason I'm doing
the movies I'm doing. And this theme speak for
themselves. Like I don't talk a lot about
politics, but the politics are in my movies.
I made a movie about drug addiction in America.
I made a movie about a coming of age journey for a young queer
child turning into a man. I made AI made a movie about
colonial and Messiah myths and Dune.
Like he he's making movies about big ideas like the end of the,
you know, the beginning of a certain independent era of
music, but also the end of music in some ways in the Bob Dylan
film. And so like he's doing movies
like the greatest of ambitious of ideas for people on his age
especially. And so to hear him talk a shit
about that was like was validating, I think to a lot of
people of our age who are working really hard to make sure
that we don't like, I guess suffer the same consequences our
parents did coming up from like a recession generation of like
the financial crisis. I do think that has like a part
to play in like our our psychology as like whatever our
generation is like the in between Gen.
Z and Millennial, Yeah. I mean, but that's.
Why I liked it? Yeah, I think it is interesting
of this idea of like, you know, a different generation being
like wait your turn mentality. Yeah, fuck that.
That's. Crazy and which I think like
Timmy kind of yes, like in in the same sense even though I
thought it was cringy like in the same I guess like way.
I also was like, Oh, yeah, like, that's cool that he is just,
like saying it. But I think that with the Bob
Dylan like whole press run, it was obviously the kind of start
of this. But I kind of really saw that as
like, he's trying to go get a younger audience who maybe isn't
as connected to Dylan to go see Bob Dylan on Christmas now, you
know? Yeah.
Now I wonder if there's like a fatigue because it was just last
year that we had this huge Tiffany Shallopet press run the
whole Oscar, like, you know, everyone, you know, looking at
him versus Brody kind of being disappointed when he he didn't
win because he really thought he was going to and kind of like
feeling that disappointment with him.
And then now though it feels like turned, the dial is turned.
Up Well, now he's entered a manosphere of like of podcasts
and interviews. I didn't realize that.
Well, we can get into that now, I think, but but just kind of
end our bit about this. Like the reason why people have
liked Timothy Chalamet since the beginning is that he is like
unabashedly himself. So like he is a theater kid
who's a little strange and like that's pretty cool.
And those videos of him like selling like modded Xbox
controllers like that all connects with him doing the like
the rap skit on SNL with Pete Davidson, you know what I mean?
Like five years ago, which it's been like almost five years now.
So like he has always, he just feels like he understands
attention, He understands click bait.
He like is a part of that content creation economy.
He's a part of that generation. And so like, I don't know, I
think there's something that's resonating that that is
transcending, like, I guess being super tired of him.
But we can talk about, yeah, we can talk about Marty Supreme in
the marketing, because it's been pretty crazy.
Yeah, I mean, especially with the jackets, like I think that's
the number one trying to get all these different people who would
traditionally go to a sports movie, like getting everyone
who's in the the best in their field to to wear the.
So, yeah, do you want to set that up for people who might not
know about the Marty Supreme jackets?
Selling this movie as a sports thriller and then now coming out
of it being like this is far more of a character study.
And these jackets feel more satirical, even though they look
cool than like, I guess real, if that makes sense.
So he's been giving sports jackets to like, some of the
best people in their fields, right?
Or at least in pop culture. Right.
Just recently the the biggest surprise I think was seeing
Steph wearing the. Steph Curry wearing the Marty
Spring jacket. Which I think Tom Brady, I was
like, how did he get like? I understand Tom Brady because
like he needs like social media sure presence.
Yeah, he's got a YouTube channel.
He's doing his stuff. Yeah, he's trying.
To rebuild back feels like he's long his way back.
Yeah, but to have like some making Tom?
Brady great again. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. To have someone like Steph,
though, wear the jacket is like, Oh my God, I I just can't
believe he did this or like made this happen.
But the next, you know, reel of Aisha, like shared the the photo
of stuff. The next photo, you know, that
she had posted in that same post was Riley, their oldest
daughter, who like, I think a lot of people know just because
when Steph was like getting so famous, like she was so young at
all the press conferences, but was doing the SNL, like the
skirt. Yeah.
With Pete Davidson reenacted. And we were like, maybe this is
a situation where like, she is absolutely.
You know, she loves Timothy Chalamet.
And so it was like a favor there because I was like, how else did
they do that, right? Yeah, well, so there was Bill
Nye. There was a lot of people who
got sent the jacket anyway, So the Marty's Supreme jacket looks
cool, right? He's been wearing it, right?
He's been doing his own, like trailers.
He he came out with his own trailer on his Instagram months
ago. It sounds like we're chronically
online, and I don't think we are, but like I.
Also think we're just like subscribe to the Timothy
Shalomay algorithm. Well also I think people are
naive if they just think that people who love Timothy Shalomay
are chronically online. I think he's way bigger than
people realize at this point. Like he is the Luke Skywalker of
this generation. He's the Katniss Everdeen.
Like he is like that famous. And so it's kind of weird to not
see that in the moment. But again, I guess we grew up
with the that's. Like Hemens and day, right like.
He's. Yeah.
I mean, Hemens and Day are the two celebrities of our
generation. Yeah, the two major ones.
But he came out with his own trailer for his shaved head
because he got rid of the locks, which is a big deal.
So I think he lost some of the fandom there.
A lot of the Ladybird fandom, a lot of the, you know, call me by
your name, like, I think that was a big deal.
I'm sure he'll come back to that.
I can't imagine. I mean, the first year that we
were teaching, you know, like I remember my students being
obsessed with Call Me By Your Name and obsessed with.
Timmy me too, my first year teaching 2017 ish.
Yeah. So I mean, that is also
interesting because, you know, Timmy's huge with the generation
who's now like in their 20s. That's my point by Wonka because
like he probably has some of those kids like so because the
second one's coming out with a year or two.
So like he's doing a Wonka franchise in addition Dune
franchise in addition to doing like a bank heist movie next
year. So like he's he's everywhere,
right? But he did a trailer for his his
shaved ass head, his bald ass head.
And I'm pretty sure he paid the Dune DP Greg Frazier to shoot
that. Does it show like the the
shaving of the head like does it?
Show No, he just like, I think he takes off.
Everybody's got the Dragon Ball Z ping pong balls on their head.
They remind me of the Dragon Ball Z orbs, which also feels
very millennial. And so he takes everyone's got
one on in this video and then somebody takes one off and it's
him, but he's got a shaved head. I'm pretty sure it's what
happened. It was months ago this came out.
So there was that. And then about like 3 or 4 weeks
ago, he directed and wrote an A-24 Zoom sketch with the
marketing team for Marty Supreme.
I did see this, yeah. And it's like a 25 minute video.
I didn't watch it all. I did not watch it all either.
But it is like hilarious. Even if it's overstays its
welcome, it's basically 25 minutes of bits that then got
like kind of clipped and then put on social media where he is
showing his screen to the Marty Supreme like press group.
And it's like the Golden Globes accept like acceptance speech is
the main picture on his monitor. And he's got like folders of
marketing ideas from Marty Supreme, and he's just kind of
losing his mind. It's like particular shades of
orange, yeah. It feels like somebody doing a
Shia LaBeouf bit, if that makes sense.
Which is why I brought up LaBeouf at the beginning, which
is awesome and very funny. And and then some people online
took it as like a cringe attempt at like, I guess vulnerable
marketing, like he was being himself.
And like, so if you watch those videos, like I recommend
checking them out on TikTok or YouTube and reading the
comments, like half the comments are confused about it being like
parody. So like, that's interesting, but
it worked because it that went viral.
Apparently he's paying for all this out of his own pocket.
By the way, going back to Kelsey's point.
So like, he brought this up in an interview recently where he's
like spending an obscene amount of money and all these marketing
campaigns really calling a shot because I'm assuming that that's
not showing up in the Marty Supreme marketing or budget.
Well, that's yeah, that's like kind of what we're saying.
Like I, I respect the idea of like him betting on himself.
I don't know what the manos. Very Marty Supreme of him.
OK. So I'll get to that next.
Maybe has a different. Well, he's going on some like
wrestler podcast. I think the Theo Von stuff
counts. But like he there was also like
Drewski, like he's going on like he's going on podcast where they
might be selling testosterone around medication.
You know what I mean? Like he's going on podcast and
that's a joke. But like where they might be
advertising to like, you know, 16 year old young boys who are
very fragile and insecure, you know, But it's also good that
he's going on there to a certain extent.
Not to make this like a masculinity studies
conversation, but a lot of Marty Supreme is like a subversive
film because it's bringing in an audience hoping to watch a Wolf
of Wall Street like Striver, only to like watch that same
character go through a real fall and it be about like kind of the
consequence of being a striver who doesn't care about who they
affect along the way, which is very relevant.
And so like, even though I've seen Charlamagne's like quote UN
quote, Jake Paul kind of circles in like podcast, he's also going
on like athlete podcast tours, which is really interesting.
Like he went on Carmelo Anthony's podcast, which I
listened to, which was awesome. He went on Anthony Edwards show
a few months ago or a month ago on the Carmelo pod.
It was actually like really awesome.
I recommend listening to that because Melo said something
beautiful to him where Chalamet was like downplaying himself to
Mellow in comparison to athletes and what athletes meant to him
growing up. And like his heroes were actors,
but they were first and foremost athletes.
And so Mellow was like one of his favorite players because
Shalom is a, you know, a famous Knick fan.
And there was like that was also a big part of the press run with
like Bob Dylan because he was like sitting in the crowd with
Spike Lee and Spike Lee's like I'm going to get Timmy my next
movie. That was pretty cool, but
Chalamet was saying like how he struggles with like knowing if
he's successful in acting because with athletes he's a
little bit jealous of how objective your success.
Is there's like stats? Right stats and how he was
saying that like acting is so subjective.
He's like, some people think I'm great at acting, some people
think I'm trash and like, I just like have good looks or got
lucky, whatever. And he was like, that's the
problem with art. But also it makes it so
interesting is that it is so subjective and mellow, like push
back. He like went full into dad mode
and was like, fuck that. The reason why athletes love
movies and the reason why people like you and how real you are in
your movies is because a lot of athletes get to express
themselves only through sports that are often very competitive
or violent. And like, it's really nice to
see people like you were super successful, make a lot of money.
Are celebrities who are expressing themselves in
vulnerable ways where we can't do the same thing and you're
making money? Yeah, like our audience won't
accept the the same. Exactly.
And so he was like, what you're doing is actually pretty deep.
And it's giving everybody else a language for how to express
themselves. It's different than just sports.
And I thought it was like, you could see Chalmay not know
totally how to respond to that because he didn't want to
continue downplaying himself, but he also appreciated the
compliment. And I was like, damn, that was
like, really. Like that's the kind of shit
where I'm happy that Chalmay is deciding to do a little bit of a
detour in terms of like the normal press cycle and not just
be like, I'm going on hot ones and I'm going to eat 10 wings
and talk about my weird childhood and like selling Xbox
controllers like. All these different things Sean
found out about me on the Internet.
It is pretty cool that he's going on the shows and also
being somebody who is a white guy who like like likes rap
music in that world, likes basketball, does a little AAVE
sometimes where you kind of like, Oh no, like what are you
doing in your Chalamet? He's also putting on like black
content creators, which is pretty cool.
So like that's, that's also part of it too.
But like I, I really appreciate this press run.
There's a lot more Marty Sprigg stuff we can talk about, but I
really appreciate this press run because you can tell these
detours were like he chose to do these.
It wasn't like there's a manager behind the scenes being like,
you should go on Carmelo's podcast, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting
because, you know, I, I criticize the, the kind of like
speech of greatness or whatever, standing as greatness.
But at the same time, like if he's on a podcast with someone
who is the best in their field, you know, he's not like doing
the same thing. He's not being like this cocky
kind of like personality, like maybe he's self deprecating
because he's aware of that in this particular like situation
in that conversation. But at the same time, it's not
like he is matching the persona that he's kind of being playful
with and his in his social media kind of like press runs for the
movie. So I think like that's
interesting because I I think people are are getting a sense
that he is getting ahead of himself kind of thing.
But I don't really get that when it's actually just him talking.
Yeah, well, it's also interesting.
I haven't listened to all those conversations though.
He talked about how like in the arts are not allowed to be cocky
and he brought Kobe is the example of like how he struggles
with that because it Kobe was like one of his favorite players
growing up and how Kobe treated himself on the court as like a
real leader and like led by his actions, right and got to
practice first left last, you know, kind of like just he was
just so present, ever present, even when he made all the money
in the world and he was like, I want to be like that as an
actor. He's like, but the tough thing
is like you listen to Kobe Bryant stories in practice and
he's kind of an asshole. Like you were, he was kind of an
asshole and like asked Jeremy Lin if Kobe Bryant was an
asshole. Like that's what Xiaomi was
saying on Mello's pod. He was like, so as an artist,
the tough thing is like, I don't really get to be an asshole.
So I do still have to like act humble even when I'm like, I am,
you know, like I'm going to call myself out or call my own shot
being like I'm the best or the greatest.
Yeah, I don't know that we need that that particular.
I'm not saying that that sports cocky kind of like personality
is helpful in any field in particular.
I just thought it was interesting in terms of
reframing, I don't know, just, I guess film criticism and the
Oscars and trying to get away from this kind of like what I
think is like an elitist, like very, very white way of
presenting yourself as if like all of your success comes from
like your tough roots and you're going to be humble about all of
your. Success worked harder than
everyone else. It's deeply.
White and I and I guess my point to this like long kind of like
monologue about him going on Mellow's pot or like going on
black creators podcast and stuff like this too.
I do think a big part, a consequence of what is doing is
that he might not be rewarded at the Oscars, ironically because
of what's happening. Like being a fool.
Sort of like idea from old. Or he's not.
Or he's not playing into traditional white expectations
of how you're supposed to act. You're supposed to uphold like
the the meritocracy. Exactly.
You worked your way to stardom and yeah, through your craft.
And so that's going to be a big part of this conversation about
two months time. Yeah.
Well, OK, unless we have more to say though about.
The Blimp. Oh, the blimp.
OK. The blimp flying over LA.
Well, then before we do that though, I just want to say like
when we get into Marty Supreme, it's actually I have to, I'll
have to like, I don't think I'll watch.
I was going to say I'll have to watch the the podcast where he
is going on that are more targeted towards like a
demographic or or like population of men who are in
this like manosphere algorithm, because I don't want to like
obviously we don't like stamp any like celebrity fully or just
like. No, he, he just said some weird
shit about like people having children recently too.
Like, it's not like everything. Yeah.
It's not like, yeah, we love Timmy.
We like. Thank you.
Yeah, it's more of what he's. Like, yeah, yeah.
But I was going to say I, I I should listen to those before I
make my decision. I'm not going to listen to
those. But what I'm saying though, is
it's interesting when you see Marty Supreme, we'll talk about
like the shift of going to see the sports movie and what the
sports movie has traditionally represented.
And so like I do possibly depending on what he said in
those spaces. Like I, I think it's interesting
that he is looking at targeting those audiences who could
actually maybe like see some toxic parts of themselves in a
movie like Marty Supreme. That is the facade of a sports
movie and of a side of like what the the sports movie or
deconstructing, I think in a lot of ways what the sports movie
has represented in our culture. So that is interesting, but.
I mean, he's been doing he did it with Dune too, when he's
acting like quote UN quote A badass and really he's being a
fascist. And so like he he's good at like
presenting what like white audiences want from him to like
uphold while also like being critical of the portrait that
he's, you know, exploring of a character.
So he had the SD Kid remix. He rapped.
He did. And we've heard Timmy Tim before
we have and their videos online, you know, like So what did you
do? You have no comment on this.
I Were you surprised? I was.
He did the funniest thing possible.
He did this. This is a chronically online
thing you have to actually know. It's definitely true.
You did the funniest thing possible.
I, I think the whole, you know, idea of like all will be
revealed was a very funny kind of foreshadowing.
And all these press runs, if you are not on as online as us,
there is a British rapper who has an eye, whatever you call
this area of the eyes, like eyebrow to to nose.
Anyway, they're showing the eyes.
His face is covered. He looks like Timothy Shalaman.
And so everyone's asking like, is are you to me?
Are you this guy? I don't.
Know the he has a hidden identity.
Nobody really knows who he is. And so people were like, is this
Timothy Shalaman? It's been a joke for like a
year. Yeah.
So anyway, I think it was really funny.
I don't I don't think Timmy's a great rapper.
I don't think that's what he was like trying to do.
Yeah, the lyrics were really bad.
The rhythm was pretty good considering he's not a rapper.
Like I was like OK but it. Didn't feel like though he was
making fun of rap music as an art either though, like.
No, I don't think he's he's not making.
It's more of like trying his best to get audiences and who he
thinks could benefit the most from supporting the arts.
To me, like the arts is in like this medium of the arts.
So like film and television, maybe theatre, right?
Like he's trying to get people in the performing arts
basically. Like that's, I think that's
Smitty Chalamet's mission. He's a fucking theatre kid.
We all connect over creativity. I think that's what he's doing.
Yeah, I mean that's kind of his thing.
I mean he says Marty Supreme like 10 times in his like 2
verses on that song, right? Like so it's or one verse.
So did he embarrass himself? Probably.
But again, going back to Kelsey's point, that's been kind
of the whole the whole thing. And then last night he did the
Vegas bubble, the big orange ball in Vegas.
I was I wasn't really familiar with, but it was kind of
legendary to watch him up there with the camera.
I recommend looking on YouTube or looking on Instagram.
Check his Instagram. Well, I think both the the blimp
and the massive sphere ping pong ball, like the extended humor, I
think does it for me. Like I like extended humor.
So the continuous like woo. Yes.
Yeah, I have the cameras panning away like making something that
is either like as silly as like a blimp, which I think you had
said the orange blimp, like Nickelodeon has a lot of.
Yeah, there's a lot of iconography.
He's playing with Dragon Ball Z Nickelodeon.
For our generation, but this like being on top of this
massive structure, it's like, OK, and he's like, there was a
news story that came out immediately after it this
morning that was like, he's the first person to ever stand on
top of this. Like OK, like, but the panning
out of something that's supposed to be.
And he kind of looks frightened, yeah.
Yeah, he does look scared. He looks.
I would also be scared, Yeah, but but the continuous like
cheering. Imagine two of these Xiaomi dies
falling off the Marty Supreme. Tumble, Yeah.
Ball. OK, he had like a harness on
that looked like so not cool like to.
He just wants you to know that Marty Supreme is coming out
Christmas Day, just so everybody knows.
So today we're reviewing Marty Supreme, which we can get to
Now. There's some people are saying
this is Timothy Chalamet's best performance yet.
As for 45 minutes into this podcast, I'll probably say that
I don't know what I'm going to call this episode.
Like the Timothy Chalamet marketing campaign plus the
movie. Yeah, this is going to be a
interesting episode. I think we'll debate a little
bit whether or not this is his best performance.
A lot of our favorite critics have said this is easily his
best performance. I would like to push back
against that a little bit toward the end.
I do think it's probably top five, but I think we're
forgetting his last two movies, which were Doom Part 2 and A
Complete Unknown, which he was fucking phenomenal in.
So it's really hard to play Bob Dylan.
Several actors have tried. Yeah, the voice.
Yeah. But I think even even if Cate
Blanchett was great, whatever. So I think we'll debate that a
little bit. I think we're going to talk a
lot about the Safdies and their style film making.
Even though this is one of the two Safdies who made this movie.
We just watched The Smashing Machine last night.
Which? Is we'll definitely talk about
that a little bit too it. Also happens to be a sports
film, yes, so we'll definitely yeah discuss that.
We're also unlocking our Chalamet catalog on Patreon
right now for free members. Episodes on Call Me by Your
Name, Little Woman Interstellar, Dune Part 1, and Dune Part 2
should all be free right now if you sign up as a free member on
Patreon. We have this every.
We haven't. No, he's made.
Like 25 movies. No, we.
Haven't done well I mean, like every major one we haven't done
Lady Bird or Bones and all Well, we did Bones and all yeah, we
talked to the writer yeah, yeah, but we didn't do that like a.
There's a few we haven't done, right.
Let me look. Hold on.
We haven't done a beautiful boy like you said.
And don't look up. We didn't do Wonka, we didn't do
the King, we didn't do French dispatch.
Don't Look Up and Lady Bird. We, no, we did French dispatch,
did we? Yeah, we did a whole like W
ranking. Well, that's different.
We had conversations on the French Dispatch.
We never, well, I talked a lot about French Dispatch on our
ranking because I have it like way higher than you and my Wes
Anderson movies. So maybe that's why I felt.
Like Astro City should be free though on Patreon right now, so
you'll hear our ranking on there.
So you'll hear us talk a little bit about that.
Anyways, it's Timmy months. He's our Christmas boy.
So all of his movies that we've covered, which are like 5 or 6
films, those are free right now. For free members on Patreon,
sign up in the description. We don't really, you know, like
celebrate Christmas, but maybe in the way that other people
celebrate Christmas. But we are really in a a
Christmas state of mind here, if you will, because we just got
back from Costco, Costco, Costco the day before Christmas Eve.
And so you know, if buying just a shit ton of like bread, buying
in bulk. Cake.
Before the holidays, people, everyone feels like they're in a
rush. An apple pie the size of.
I don't. Know I did get a cheesecake with
a strawberry top. Hello and I'm going to be eating
that. For weeks, Costco was crazy.
Yeah, we're not. We're not big Christmas people.
We're having family over those. So, like, it is, it's a very
holiday festive time. So I hope everybody's having
enjoying the experience. Marty Supreme won battle after
another back-to-back those movies.
We did if our people also tell us in the the comments like what
are you watching with your family over like the holiday
season or like if you celebrate Christmas, what are you watching
with your family on Christmas Day?
Like if it's not Christmas movies necessarily, I mean, you
can throw an elf or whatever you watch home alone.
But I am curious because we had a friend who was like, you know,
we have people usually reach out to us like I'm with my family or
I have like downtime during this, this period of like the
holidays. What should I watch?
Right? We get those texts like all the
time for recommendations. And it's usually like, I'll send
you a letterbox list of like, depending on what kind of horror
movies your dad's into or like, you know, but specifically we,
we, I think I've been like leaning on and telling people to
watch 1 Battle after another. I've been telling people, wake
up dead, man. This is just a very family
palatable. I actually just watch all three.
Yeah. Knives Out, Glass Onion.
Wake up dead, man. That's fair.
Yeah. Three nights in a row, you're
done. Yeah, but we didn't realize.
We did tell a friend to, you know, check out.
Oh yeah, tell the story. To check out one battle.
No, yes, thank you. And we're like, it's a perfect
family movie like her. Her family will think it's like
interesting politically, like we're good, but we totally
forgot. A strange thing to say, part
family. Movie about that film, but it
was said. The first part, I guess with
like, you know, if you yeah, we won't.
There's no spoilers here, but Lockjaw there are some sexual
scenes in the first part. There's like, fetishizing
scenes. Yeah.
It's a, it's a very, it's PTA movie, yeah.
So we just forgot about that and we didn't realize it was not
included that she was watching it with her grandfather.
OK so like I can't be responsible if I don't have all
the information? Apparently he was locked in
though, so grandfather was hit. That was so funny.
She was like at one point, but I was like, I think we can handle
it, you know, I think we can, we can get past this.
But after that I was like, just get past the scene, you know,
and it will be a smooth sailing. You can hear from that person on
the Interstellar episode right now free on Patreon because they
were guessing on there with James.
That's Kira. So Marty Supreme ready I am.
Spoilers ahead. This movie charts the rise and
fall of Marty Mauser. Speaking of holidays, happy
Hanukkah too. A Jewish American shoe store
hustler, Marty Mauser is living in post World War 2 Queens who
discovers fame, sort of or the illusion of it through ping pong
and is less interested to me, I think, and what it means to be
great than being seen as great. By who?
A little bit unclear, maybe we just by himself and Marty is
driven by ego insecurity, classic kind of rise and fall
masculine despair journey for this protagonist and he's very
desperate. And through the movie it becomes
increasingly clear that he is deranged and delusional.
And as the runtime continues it gets worse and worse.
There are moments of humanity for his character, but mostly he
is just obsessed with being successful, whatever that means
to him. I would say it is a funny, sad
character study, kind of faking it as a sports movie to sell
itself, especially in the trailers.
Really convincingly though. Like the sport stuff in here, in
the cinematography, in the staging, in the performances
from Chalamet, his physicality in this movie, I don't mean that
by like strength, I mean that by movement is really impressive,
so. I totally agree.
He makes #1 I don't know how Josh Safdie made, like, table
tennis so exciting in that way. It did feel like a sports movie
where I was just, like, impressed at how locked in I
wasn't in the games and how it was shot.
But physically, yeah, like Timmy's doing a great job of
like, being an athlete on screen.
And like he says in a lot of interviews, it's him making it
look like serious, like he's not actually this like great table
tennis player, but he was like practicing.
He had table tables like at at Dune, you know offset that he
practice after. He pulled the same thing with
the guitar from Bob Dylan. He's like, I've been having
guitar on set for five or six years now.
Yeah, yeah. I was like, all right.
We got it, you prepared for the role.
Yeah, Timothy Chalamet maybe the best ping pong player in movie
since Tom Hanks and Forrest Gump.
You know what? Yeah.
Been a long time, but yeah, I I would say let's start the
conversation. I want to talk about tone a lot.
I want to talk about style of filmmaking before we jump into
the plot. But maybe we'll start the
conversation with whether or not people will be happy with the
fact that this is sort of a comment on sports films rather
than being a sports film itself. And maybe it's important to
start with the fact that, sorry, this is so such a generational
conversation, but like, Zendaya and Timothy Chalamet are
probably the two biggest celebrities around the age of 30
in the world, if we're not counting like upper 30s with
like Jay Law and Robert Pattinson, who are easily the
the two big stars. But I would say Zendaya and
Chalamet are the the ones, right?
They're the stars of Dune, but they also have like been child
stars turned adult stars and now have like very famous celebrity
relationships. Zendaya that's true.
Engaged to spider man. Apparently that's true.
Tom Holland. And then Xiaomi's got a girl
with a billion dollars, as he said in his SD kids song, which
is actually a hard line to me, even though it's very
capitalistic. OK, so where was I going with
that? Oh, what do you think it says
about both of these two actors who star in Dune together as
love interest? Yeah, who?
Both just did sports films. You know, Zendaya with
Challengers, with the director that Timmy knows very well, who
put them on next to gritty Kerwig, Luca Guadagnino.
Didn't they get connected because of Timmy?
Correct, Luca and Zedea. Yes.
And now Timmy starring in a Safdie movie, who I think he was
like enamoured by like the patents and performance in good
time. And then obviously Sandler who
Chalamet loves and say I love Chalamet too.
Chalamet from my cut gems. What do you think it says about
our generation that our two sports films of this time of
this modern twenty 20s era are these like non violent for the
most part not. What do you want to call?
Them non contact. Non contact.
Sports. Yeah, with Zendaya, you're
right, they both have rackets. Yeah.
What do you think it is? Because I feel like we're past
the bravado and deep masculinity and hyper competitive nature of
like the football and basketball movies of the 2000s and before
that. Does that make sense?
Totally. OK.
So yeah, I think that here's the thing, I think that most
audiences will go to see it as a sports movie on as a Christmas
movie. And I think that for the most
part, to answer the first part of your question, they'll be
satisfied because it does turn into a Catch me if you can
movie. So there is like a, you know,
and that's also, by the way, also a Christmas movie.
You've done that on Patreon. That's true.
But something yes, something familiar.
But you're right, like it's more of why I think to answer your
second question about like why sports are more focused on the
strategy and the business of them rather than what we've
talked about previously of upholding this, this kind of
idea of this heroic masculinity that really I, I, I know I've
already like said this, but it is really channeling the myth of
meritocracy. Like if you work hard, you can
get what you quote UN quote, deserve or earn, right?
It's leaning on that narrative. And that's why I think, you
know, we've talked about this on the Creed episode, looking at
like the Rocky franchise. And then also, I don't know that
we've done many sports films, but I think we talked about on
the Challengers episode a little bit too, that, you know, we grew
up with sports movies that really were in that vein, right?
It was like Rudy Rocky. Remember the Titans, which is a
great film but like, yes. But yeah, but right, so like
this idea of sports being a a unifying right, like non
critical look at like racism, for example, although remember
the Titans for a. That's the most.
Children's movie yeah, obviously like maybe is in a different
lane than something like Rocky that unaware what?
Is that movie with Mark Wahlberg where he's got like that long
haircut? Yeah, it's like, yeah, OK.
Unstoppable, whatever it is. We kind of get it right.
It's like this idea of speaking to the audience, it's like the
kind of like standing character for the audience who against all
odds, like, you know, this white guy makes the team and everyone
cheers him on. Cool, OK, great.
But you know, now I think that's not really that's not really
something that our generation at least is interested in in sports
movie, especially because we understand the capitalism that's
driving sports, right? Like we understand that sports
is a business, the commercial. We understand like the
exploitation of like labor. We understand like the classed
like issues within sports and like the unequal payment right
or or the idea of like, you know, the the only opportunity
that people in poverty might have to access wealth like this
is through sports and like. I Tonya was about this.
I, Tonya Creed three. Yeah, yeah.
Movies have been like this recently.
Sports films. So I think, you know, to see
like we wouldn't want and maybe that doesn't apply to like all
contact sports like Creed, right?
Creed 3 did this well. So we still do have like contact
sports, but that that's a little bit different because it's still
within the Rocky. The lineage, they feel like
period pieces because Rocky's walking around in the
background. Yeah.
And I guess we, I mean, we talked about like iron Claw, but
it's still like a period piece, right?
It's still like here is a particular like type of
masculinity, that masculinity that we're looking at.
And that was also a little bit more aware in terms of
interrogating like the socialization and the how their
dad was like had these expectations for them to to be
as well as like be in the sport. So, so I think to the long
answer there is that like our generation just isn't interested
in seeing this like fake hollow story about rising to greatness
and this this it would really fall flat to see, I think a
story like that of of this idea of like quote UN quote earning
success. Not that people don't work hard
in sports like that is a different conversation.
It's just the idea of especially looking at like the traditional
kind of movies like Rudy that we've seen, right?
We're more interested in movies that were like the characters
are aware the system's broken and they're trying to beat the
system. Exactly.
So the. So I think, you know that our
generation wants to see sports movies more so.
And I and I think just like the table tennis and tennis itself
with Zendaya and Challengers fits this kind of like business
kind of idea of how the sport is run and strategizing as an
individual. Right?
Yeah, yeah. Like how are you building
yourself? How are you aware of your public
perception? That whole like strategy aspect
is interesting because. And This is why we love Color of
Money, right? It's about the hustle.
Yeah, it's about the hustle of the sport #1 which was I think
our our generation like thinks is interesting and what sports
movies are moving into. And second, like I think our
generation would watch someone like essentially would sooner
watch a movie where someone is like buying shoes and reselling
them online for like a higher price right than a traditional
sports movie. I'll go, yeah, a step further.
I think our generation would rather watch Moneyball than
Rocky, which is weird to be like.
They would rather see how the organization is broken, how
somebody's trying to beat been trying to find loopholes in the
system for good or bad. The morals kind of just being up
to the director, I guess, who's making the movie or like Shake
Shack from a year ago of like just like these hustling.
Kids. Trying to make, you know, a
couple 1000 bucks in the summer then they would, yeah, you know,
a racks to riches story that feels false.
And I Rocky is that you know, we we talked, we did a whole Rocky
franchise. So we talked all about Rocky
like and obviously it is aware of class but to an extent like
those. Those movies have others, but we
like the Rocky films, obviously, yeah.
But yeah, I know I think that's so true, right?
Like so the the idea of, you know, the this being more
similar Marty Supreme to an uncut Gems is and also we talked
about challengers being more similar to the love triangle and
hustle of color of money, which is also a sports film and we
love for the same reason. And it's not a contact sport
because it's focused on that. Like I I think that is
definitely where sports movies are moving, or at least like
what our generations audiences are interested in.
Yeah. So, yeah, sorry if that was like
a long one, an answer from both of us about like where sports
films are right now, but it is a little bit confusing.
It feels like we're in an era changing.
Like what kind of like people are interested in in the sports
movie to even answer that question.
Right. I feel like the Creed franchise
is the best look at that. I think you could do a whole
like dissertation on the Creed franchise.
No Listen to our Patreon. Episode, I guess we did.
If you're doing like a sports psychology PhD, maybe, yeah, go
listen to that. Well, I guess listen to.
That. Yeah.
Source us. Did I tell you somebody DM Ed us
about that? Somebody DM Ed us if we could.
Source US How do I cite you? Yeah, how do I cite you in my
college paper? And I was like, I have no idea.
I don't know. Put that shit in owl bib for
whatever it is. What is it?
What do you say? What is the source thing we used
to use in college Purdue? OWL, Purdue OWL and Easy Bib.
Yeah, shout out which. I think you probably.
Shout out my people who only took academic English in high
school never learned how to source things.
I see you. There's only so many times you
can fucking read Frankenstein, am I right?
In terms of like, what? What I think people are going to
be frustrated by with this sports film of it all is that I
think they're going to go in thinking that it's going to be a
celebration of Marty the movie, if that makes sense.
It's like the Wolf of Wall Street problem, which is like,
maybe Wolf of Wall Street wasn't satirical enough, right?
Or critical enough, rather. It was certainly satirical
enough. It wasn't critical.
Well, yeah, we talked about this honor episode where it just
indulges in too many things that are uncritically examined in the
media. It's not just media literacy,
it's also an issue with the direction, right?
Or the kind of like repetition and what you were trying to
criticize that then seems like an A sort of like signing off of
what you're showing on screen. And so that's the but Marty's
Supreme to me is is being sold as a celebration of Marty
Supreme and Chalamet is selling the movie as a celebration of
the character. He's even talking about it on
podcast and non a non self aware way where he's like, it is about
being in your 20s, being kind of stupid, but being very
ambitious. And it's kind of where he's
ending it. He doesn't really want to give
any more like I guess this kind of like more self critical
portrait that he's really trying to paint in the film with the
performance, which is an excellent performance.
And so Shall makes playing the self absorbed showman in the
movie as Marty but also in real life.
But it is a fake out. And So what we're really
watching is this like, you know, critical exploration and take
down of American exceptionalism through Marty Supreme and it as
a disease of like this idea of the American Dream being the
best at all costs. And the kind of cautionary tale
of all that. The American Dream cautionary
tale, I think is one of our favorite shared favorite genres
or like kind of like story through lines.
And I think the DNA of that formula is certainly here.
I think when we watch this movie, we both came out thinking
about Boogie Nights, We thought about Color of money, we thought
about Wolf of Wall Street, Certainly Whiplash.
You know that a lot of films, you know, Catch Me if you can,
like you already mentioned, I was like, OK, I could see this
Scorsese. I see the PTAI, see the Damien
Chazelle, see the little bit of the Spielberg.
Even though I think Catch me if you can, I like that movie and
that might be Dicaprio's best performance.
That movie feels like a fairy tale in comparison to Marty
Supreme in a lot of ways, because this movie feels a lot
more grimy, greasy, real in a sense of like, what are the
real? What is the reality of this
person really going to look like?
Yeah, it feels like in Catch Me If You Can, like Leo's this like
grown up boy, which is like a lot of Spielberg movies, though.
It's like the person's like still a child in an adult's
body. It's so weird.
OK, so back to the So the story. Let's go to the plot.
Let's do some plop beats here. So we open the movie on Marty
Mauser, who is kind of wired. He's a wiry guy, that Chalmet,
very sweaty, hustling, got a pretty good haircut, got those
like beady eyes. Lots of made about the eyes and
the contacts, especially because of Kristen Stewarts incredible
interview with New York Times where she was just like men are,
you know, glorified for method acting.
You can't name one woman method actor for a reason.
Yeah. And all they do is retain self.
She gave some banger quotes that I'm ruining right now.
Yeah, but you can go listen to that interview and it was really
funny because that interview dropped at the same time
Rochelle and they came out in his press store being.
Like talking about how he got, like, special made contact,
Yeah. To make his eyes smaller, yeah.
Had to wear prescription glasses as a result.
So it was it was funny many timing.
The irony is I think Xiaomi would be like Kristen Stewart is
my goddess, you know, like he's like somebody who seems like
very much like in line with us of like loving case dude.
Anyways, that aside, in the movie, in this performance, he's
kind of moving like a slender man on Red Bull.
That's his like energy. He's just constantly wired up.
But he's also very wiry. He's a fast talking like
everybody, including customers to friends.
He's pitching deals. He's ducking in and out of like
tight spaces. He's hanging on by a thin thread
and we basically open with him in a shoe store and Odessa Zion,
I believe it's her last name. I apologize if I'm
mispronouncing that. She comes into the movie and
she's like, I need to talk to you.
They get a little immediately. They make eye contact.
You're like, oh, they know each other.
Right. Well, I actually didn't know if
it was going to be a meet cute situation because we only see
Timmy and Gwyneth Paltrow in the trailer.
So I was like, oh, are we going to like meet them and then come
back to them at the end of the movie?
Because she says, you know, I forgot something like maybe it's
and then Timmy's like, oh, maybe it's in the back, like creates a
situation, right? So they can go hook up in the
back. But I didn't realize they had
like totally. Like they knew each other as
characters. Right.
So he tries to hook up with her, sneaks her in through the back,
is like ducking underneath the door from his manager.
He calls him in, gives him a promotion.
I think in that moment or later in the film with his own card,
Marty clearly doesn't want it, says he doesn't want it.
He's a professional ping pong player.
That's where his ambitions lie. He doesn't want to sell shoes
for a living. He's kind of a prick about it
and he's just obsessed with ping pong and he's got a competition
overseas. I think they make it really
clear. They establish that he needs
cash. That he got in there, very
sorry. He's like, I need like the
money. That you promised me.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, but you're right, I think he doesn't ask for an advance,
so maybe not. So signing like he doesn't have
to do it right. And the major tension of the
movie is is all established very quickly, which is that does
Marty settle into a career path with a beautiful woman, maybe
start a family with who will learn is his childhood
sweetheart? Or does he chase delusional
greatness in his 20s and he chooses delusion and he chooses
that kind of like horrible journey.
That is maybe I don't know, maybe he wouldn't call it
horrible. And that's I think a big part of
the movie And and whether it's characters that self aware and
as him and Odessa start hooking up and the music is playing the
forever young, which is an awesome music drop.
There's also great score in this film, very synthy, very safety.
The title drop happens, which is one of the craziest title drops
I've ever seen. I would say it's next to Uncut
Gems in recent memory. I guess not by accident, Yeah.
What do? You think it is about because
like Uncut Gems has the colon like colonoscopy.
So we're inside of like a colon and like here, you know, we're
following like. You start, you start in the
universe and then you go inside, inside the colon.
That's true, which is pretty cool.
And it's kind of similar here where you feel like you're in a
universe or some kind of like, I don't know.
Yeah. And then?
Very colorful. Colorful.
Gems, yeah. Yeah, in the gem.
And then the screen explodes into this like digital sperm
flying through what looks like cyberspace or something.
And it's like this neon insemination sequence definitely
has to be the first one ever in cinema.
If Damian can make Babylon again, I certain that this would
be in. They're going to.
Use this for for sex education everywhere like this.
That's what Marty would have wanted.
Cinematic version. Yeah, I don't know what it's
what it is. What do you think it is that
that the Safdies are interested in this like Looney Tunes panic?
Yeah, I was. Like what?
What is up with, like being inside?
Like the body? Yeah, like what?
I wonder if I at first I'm. Thinking we don't usually see
cinematically. Yeah, like at 1st and also that
are make people kind of like uncomfortable to see like
organs, you know, or whatever. I was like, OK, is it just the
kind of abject, you know, like idea of that we get in horror
movies of like getting uncomfortable about like seeing
bodies? Or is it something that is like
thematically, you know, coded of like being inside of these
characters? I don't know.
So I think maybe, yes, maybe it does have like something
thematic of like I'm going to show you something that you
might immediately think is either like shocking or
uncomfortable or something like that, right.
But that's how we're starting right to to kind of go into this
more grimy story or like real, I guess, you know, in the kind of
context tonally of the movie story.
Yeah. I mean, I guess with with Adam
Sandlers character, he talks out his ass the entire movie, so I
guess that kind of makes sense. And then with Timmy's character
he is sort of parasitical to everybody around him and that's
what the semen look like. Yeah, in that sequence.
So I guess it makes sense for the characters if you read it
that way. It also just is a provocative
way to start a film. So like that could, it's just
feel subversive because it is like borderline transgressive.
It does feel like, to your point, which I never thought
about the abject, like it feels like you're watching a little
bit of like a scene from a Saw film, but from somebody who's a
little bit weirdly more fucked up, if that makes sense.
Like to even come up with that idea.
I don't know where we're going to go next.
So the smashing machine didn't have anything like that.
We didn't go through the. Bicycle.
Oh, that's. True of the rock.
Yeah. So I think this is a Josh.
This is a Josh specific interest.
But that does make me excited that it's, like, becoming, like
a motif of his work. Yeah.
So Marty ends up not getting the money, right?
He goes to rob one of his coworkers.
Yes, seeing Xiaomi with a gun being like, yeah, I'm going to
kill you. Yeah, I will shoot you.
Yeah, it was. It was a funny, like funny
scene. Yeah.
For the travel money, he does it in a very casual way, which I
think makes it, you know, really hilarious.
Xiaomi doesn't get to play too much into his his comedic
powers, but he is a very funny actor.
You can tell he really did love Adam Sandler growing up because
he just has like a a timing. He got to do a little bit a
little bit of that and don't look up in terms of comedian.
But that was weird. He was like playing a full
character that was supposed to be funny because of the
character he was playing, right? Like that.
And he, like, kisses Jennifer Lawrence in that movie.
I think that was a lot. Right.
Yeah. I forgot that happened.
I forgot that too much. Wow.
But here though, he's actually able to like do comedic timing
versus do you know what I mean? They felt like a different sort
of like SNL skit where he was like transforming into a
character that. Was supposed to be funny, right?
And the Wonka humor was really eccentric because he was he was
trying to channel. The John Depp.
Plus, yeah, so he gets the money and he travels somewhere in
Europe, some ping pong circuit for like the world championship.
I don't know if it's like a pre Olympics thing or a literal
Olympics thing, I forget. He flies overseas.
He expects the Rockstar treatment immediately starts
beefing with the tournament organizer judges.
He wants to stay at some nice Ritz like hotel.
If not the Ritz, they say no. Somehow he ends up there
anyways, which will come back at the end of the movie.
And that leads us to the entrance of Gwyneth Paltrow,
right in this film. Yeah.
And Kevin O'Leary, who? I think most people were really
disappointed to see Kevin O'Leary cast in this movie, but
considering the character he's playing, he's just playing
himself, which then makes it work.
I think it does too. Yeah.
Yeah, I I think so too. I.
Think self aware casting. Exactly He.
Even if not to him. Yeah, even if not to Kevin
O'Leary. I think in the trailer they,
they use a line where he's like, I'm going to make you a deal,
right? Like we're going off of the
Shark Tank here of it all #1 And then you're right though, like
he's playing a pretty like opportunistic, like capitalist,
yeah guy who has convinced himself that he just like plays
it straight and he kind of like because he's so direct and
whatever. Like that's how he is like
stomping on everyone, right? Like, you know what I mean?
He's like self mythologizing himself.
But when we see later on work with like a very surprising
scene with him and Timothy Chalamet, which we'll get to, he
says like, you have no power here, right?
Like so he's also very aware of the the like power dynamics.
But again, like not a self aware character where I think it does
make the O'Leary casting work. He.
Strangely, Kevin O'leary's character is kind of at the
center of the thesis of this film for me.
So I'm interested to discuss that with you because I think as
blatant and direct as this movie is about its ideas and being
sort of an anti sports movie and being critical American
exceptionalism and and capitalism in many ways and a
critical portrait of Marty Mauser turned Marty Supreme.
I think there are, there's a good ambiguity at the end of
this movie about what his relationship is to, like, Kevin
O'leary's character and what will become of the future of
Marty Mauser. So after he sees Gwyneth
Paltrow, he, like, instantly falls in love with her as a a
class symbol, Right. Because people at his table who
he's trying to convince to sponsor him, these businessmen,
they like, immediately were like, enraptured by her.
Yeah, and he's like, oh, this is what I want.
Like he takes a double take, but not necessarily at her at the
connection that they have like the glare.
And he's like he's observation located that.
And he's like I want that. I.
Don't know what that is. He's like I want time to stop
for me in the same way it is for.
Her right now, exactly. So then we cut to the famous
trailer sequence, which is Timothy Chalamet half naked in a
trench coat in a very Tom Cruise like way, jumping on top of a
bed and maybe more of a Ferris Bueller kind of way, kind of
shit eating grin that he has that Xiaomi is so good at with
his unibrow and talking as if he's the sexiest man alive.
But certainly is like playing down his good looks, which is
kind of a compliment I would make to Xiaomi in this movie.
Like good for him for like playing so down on how
attractive he is as a as a person.
They really lean into the fact that they they really try to get
rid of his like jaw in this movie, like his like his jaws
connected to his neck in this film, which is Xiaomi is kind of
known for having one of the craziest like jaws in the
industry next to Pattinson for men at least anyway, So small
note there, but he's like calling Gwyneth Paltrow on the
phone. What does he tell her to do?
Like look in the newspaper. Yeah, he's like, look at, yeah,
look at page like 12 or something, right?
And she like flips there. It's a small picture of him, but
I think he says. He's like the chosen 1.
I'm somewhat of a performer myself.
Or something like. That right and and he's doing
this kind of like boyish thing where he's trying to flirt with
her by impressing her and saying, you know, watch across
the street, I'm going to make an apple appear in that apartment.
And if I do, then you have to come see me, right?
Like creating an ultimatum where where there was nothing.
Right. Well, he sees a window,
figuratively and literally. And so he's like, I'm going to
take advantage of this. Yeah.
I, I think it is interesting like I, I think there's a lot of
parallels with Uncut Gems of kind of like making this like,
kind of like doubling up a situation, which we'll talk
about later of like there's a, a issue that you like created and
then you're going to like come in to solve it, right?
And he's like doing that even here with Gwyneth Paltrow.
And the reason why I think the movie is like interesting is
that it is like a looking at this kind of like boyish
masculinity where he even thinks that he has like a shot with
this woman, right. Also, though, which we will talk
about insulting to women everywhere.
I think just like but I think the movie is aware of it to a
certain extent until it's not, which I'll talk about.
But it is a it is an important like thing to I think just like
tag here or flag this kind of like flirtatious thing.
It's like is the movie. Yes, it is aware that he is so
like full of himself essentially and that this is a stand in for
like maybe what boys might be taught in general.
Like a male fantasy. Yeah, exactly.
But then later on it's, it is like, how much are we leaning
into? It has a Wolf of Wall Street.
Timothy Chalmette. Yeah, there's like a basically a
porno scene between Timothy Chalamet's character and Gwyneth
Paltrow's. Character.
Yeah, it feels like a which turns to like.
An objectifying scene that. Exactly A boy's.
OK, so yeah, well, I'll just talk about it now then the IT
feels like a boy's fantasy, right where that sex scene is.
Like it just so insulting to women, I think.
Like, yeah, so. So we can get we can get to a
little bit more directly. So Paltrow's character
eventually comes to see him play and it's a turning point in the
movie because Marty gets to put on a show and we get to actually
see him in action because we have yet to see him actually
perform ping pong at at a high level.
And he is winning the match so easily that he tells his partner
who he is friends with has dinner with later that night.
Who used to be a champion? Yeah.
Yes. He's like, do you mind if we
just like fuck around for this last match?
And they basically turn it into performance art and he's running
around the room and he's hitting the ball everywhere.
He's trying to impress people. And her, she is impressed.
We're impressed. He's an entertainer and so is
she, as we learned that she's an actress and that was really
cool. I loved that sequence.
I like seeing Xiaomi run across the room hitting a ball, like
grunting, like he's Maria Sharapova, like Venus Williams,
like I thought that was pretty sick.
And then after the match, he goes to dinner.
He's asking the server to comp O'leary's bill, the whole table,
the whole table, trying to make a big move, and Gwyneth looks
visibly stressed when she identifies what's happening.
She doesn't stop him. O'Leary comes over.
They have some kind of like, transactional conversation about
like, whether or not O'Leary really cares about his ping
pong. Xiaomi's like, you don't
understand, this is going to be the future.
You sell ballpoint pens. It's perfect.
We can make this like a marketing thing.
Which then felt very meta because of the marketing of,
like, Marty Supreme in general. Yeah.
It's just funny to see Marty become his own like, marketer
the same way Timmy has become. Later that night, I think
Gwyneth and Chalamet's characters have sex.
I can't remember if it was before this.
I think it it, you know, it may have been after because again,
we saw this a really long time ago, which but I, I think
actually it was after that match.
They have sex and then he's like, I'm going to pay for this
bill. And that's why she, we see her
get stressed. But I think that's actually an
interesting thing that we see her get stressed there because
like later on, it doesn't really matter to her that like, people
maybe find out like, yes, it does matter that the public
might find out which we'll we'll get into that whole park
sequence and having to like, buy off the cops essentially.
But it it's not really like that important to her.
And I and I wonder, like, how much of the movie at that point
is like keeping us in Marty's POV of like, him having power
over this woman. Does that make sense of like
having. Yeah, so I, I think that's
interesting. But yeah, I love when when the
Kevin O'leary's character comes over and is like, who is about
to like, try to buy, you know, like one of me.
Right. Do you?
Do you like one of them? This.
I do, yeah. She's pretty good.
You like her too? Yeah.
I was surprised how much screen time she actually got.
I thought I was going to be coming in for like one or two
scenes, a kind of a cameo, like a celebrity kind of thing.
Yeah, I will say that I kind of expected that too.
I will say I was expecting more of a Pepper Potts situation and
maybe that's just because I have only seen her Marvel movies, you
know, but I thought she did like a a great job.
I liked how spicy she was with that actor.
I figured his name, Fred Herschlinger or whatever his
last name is. I apologize.
But where she's like saying like he fucking sucks at what he does
and Sham is like, why don't you take the knife and go like this?
It's just awesome. So I think basically the next
day, Marty goes back and forth with the Japanese competitor.
Marty loses, kind of thrown off by the different paddle, but
really just like the guys much better than him and loses like a
loser. Like he he basically crashes out
and Kevin O'Leary offers him a job the next day to play the
same guy in this kind of exhibition match for money.
But you have to lose because it's going to be in Japan.
And Marty is like, I'm not going to do it.
I'd rather I'd rather go become like a.
An act at 1/2 time show and then we cut to him being an actor.
In the Harlem Globetrotters. Yes, travelling the world, I
think there's some real NBA players and some of these
sequences, which is cool. He sees the pyramids, cuts off a
piece for his mom. Right.
That was earlier in the movie, but yeah.
Is it not when he's travelling the world as a globetrotter?
Oh, maybe you're right. Yeah, I think that's when he's.
Travelling because he brings it back to his mom.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's like, I've been
working. OK, Yeah.
He comes back to New York. Things fall apart very quickly.
Marty gets fake arrested. Were really arrested.
Can't tell by a the family friend who owns the shoe store
who's going to give him the job as soon as he returns.
Which it was a great scene because you could tell at the
beginning when he starts to get arrested, you're like, this
doesn't feel like a real arrest. So like what is happening here?
There's like some sort of misdirect happening where it
makes it like this funny sequence where he's like, why?
Why aren't you like just arresting me?
And then we have like the family friend come out.
Right. It's also revealed in this
moment that he owes thousands in America because he stole
thousands of dollars from the sky.
But he also, it's also revealed later that he owes thousands to
that Ritz overseas. So he's basically like an
International Criminal. Like a catch me if you can.
Right. So throughout the film I kept
thinking, how's he going to get got?
Like, how's he going to get killed?
How's he going to go to jail? We already said spoiler warning
but neither of those things happened.
But I kept thinking about Uncut Gems and how that movie ends
and. So.
So you were waiting. I was waiting for him to get
shot to die and I just was like, and I was kind of like both
excited to see Chalamet be put in that vulnerable of a position
to have a Leo DiCaprio departed moment of getting killed
basically. And sorry spoiler I guess 20.
Year old. That's OK, That is totally.
But also I really didn't want to see it, if that makes sense.
But I'm kind of glad they didn't because I think it hits a nail
on the head of like of the theme at the end of the movie that I'm
excited to get to. And so he runs from the cops
through the city looking like a coked up Ferris Bueller, truly
running from building to building, eventually crashing
into Odessa's character, who's also she's very good in this
movie. She doesn't get too much to do
and we'll have a lot to say about her in a second.
She's now pregnant, gives us a good timeline because we assume
it's his and she tells him it is his and it's nine months,
obviously pregnancy. So it's a nine month timeline in
the film, which is, which is cool that we have that one.
And they're at a pet store. She works at a pet store.
And you said while watching Adrian Rocky, you're like Adrian
Rocky. And I was like, oh, that's cool
for sports films. And they have a similar.
There's like a quiet angry tenderness between them, which I
enjoy. Yeah, between these two.
And they have great chemistry, like it feel, it feels like they
have known each other and been childhood friends.
And they're also like romantically involved now.
Did you know that Drew Starkey's girlfriend?
Apparently. Odessa, Azion.
You informed me of this and I didn't realize, like, I mean,
she's gorgeous, but like, I just didn't realize how hot she was
until I watched I Love LA Rachel sent us new TV show.
I watched the first episode. Is that good?
It was like, so I was going in with really low expectations.
I also don't watch a lot of TV so.
But I I think yeah, like I enjoyed it.
I also love Rachel Sennett. How's Josh in it?
Hutcherson, He's. Great, I love him.
He's really good. And then Odessa plays this like
character that Rachel center and her were growing up.
They were best friends growing up or in college or something.
And now they're like kind of in their their their jobs, right,
like right out of school and have this like riff in their
relationship because Odessa is playing this like movie or
sorry, not movie pop music star and Rachel Senate wants to is
going to be her manager. So like there's this.
It's almost like, you know, I didn't put this together, but I
feel like I've only watched the first episode.
Like is this an entourage situation?
Meet Sex and the City. Oh, I thought it was like a
Larry David thing. I think the first episode was
not a Larry David. No, it was like more a scripted
kind of comedic drama. I also everyone have not seen
girls. I don't know if it's in the
similar vein, but anyway, she's so hot in that that.
That show is it. What I was trying to get.
To well, she's hot in this movie too, but she's also playing down
her her like incredible looks. That's interesting.
But yes, they have a good they have good chemistry.
She tells them the baby is his and.
If you didn't listen to queer, Drew Starkey and her make total
sense. It makes a lot of sense, yeah.
If you don't listen to our episode of Queer, then you
probably don't get where we stand with that.
But Drew Starkey? Damn.
Then the husband shows up, tries to fight Marty.
He's like, what are you, an ape trying to fight me?
It's a great scene from Chalamet.
Great. Which is funny because it's like
delivery. He is trying to say like in that
scene, these are like great examples of him like playing
with masculinity but also playing into masculinity because
he is trying to say like, oh, you want to get physical?
Like he literally says that. And then at the same time
though, he knows he'd get his ass beat so.
Absolutely. So he's like, I'd rather you
call the cops on me. Yeah, finally we get to Tyler,
The Creator, which is really exciting.
I'm really happy for Tyler, The Creator.
I was a little bit nervous because it's a tough trajectory
for I would say he's like a pop like cultural icon at this
point. So he's not just like a music
star or like hip hop *. He's like very known.
He's transcended that space. I was also, yeah, I was
wondering if him and Timmy would have like chemistry.
It's really cool to hear Tyler talk about Chalmette in this
press run for Marty Supreme because Tyler, The Creator also
is like, very much himself in interviews.
And he's like, yeah, that but white, white boy is crazy.
He's like that in real life. Like, I love him.
Like, that's like Tyler's energy about Timmy, which is good to
see because I am always curious what Chalmette is like in closed
rooms. And Tyler, The Creator would say
straight up if Chalmette was like, I think a piece of.
Shit or like he just wouldn't talk about.
It yeah, he wouldn't bring it up or he wouldn't do an interview.
So him and Tyler, they go to AI don't know his character's name,
but they go to a busted up room in a hotel.
Marty's broke, desperate, talking about like money that
he, you know, got taken from him by the shoe store guy.
Tyler, the crater is going through his like mail and he's
like, by the way, you own this European hotel, thousands of
dollars too. While Marty's taking a bath and
you hear Marty's screaming in denial as Tyler walks into the
bathroom. And then mid rant, he falls
through the ceiling, which was not in the trailer.
So that was awesome because a lot of like the the quote UN
quote action scenes of this movie are in the trailer and
this one was not. It goes full physical comedy
from Chalamet as he crashes through the ceiling.
And but it very like but in. It quickly turns.
Dark like fashion. Yes, very, Yeah, very dark,
like, you know, the like the dog screaming a man.
Spines like crushed by this basket.
Yeah, man's like arm snapped in half.
Yeah. Dog's still alive, though.
They got to take it to a vet. And the guy, I guess is a
gangster. He's like from Goodfellas.
He's from a whole other movie. He's got his whole movie going
on. He's in the mafia or something.
He's like, yeah, there's cash in the bag.
Like grab that, take the dog to the vet and save the dog.
And then that was basically the first act of Marty Supreme.
It's a great set up, a great kind of beginning of a rise and
fall, or what you think is going to be a rise and fall.
The second-half of the movie is basically a run of Marty doing
dumb, selfish shit that he thinks is inconsequential.
That will be very consequential. Every single thing will come
back to haunt him. And it's kind of very, it's a
safty trope. At this point of their
storytelling, this is what they do.
The chaos always circles back. Yes, well, I think, you know,
it's really interesting that you you said the bathtub scene,
which was one of the most like, you know, I guess surprising
scenes in terms of the shock and like gore of an actual like
immediate consequence. Where in the trailer, you know,
I was just re watching it this morning.
There are a lot of scenes that seem like there's conflict.
Like there is the scene that we're about to talk about where
Tyler, The Creator like pushes Timmy or Timmy doing the
chicken. Like at the very end sequence,
like there's a lot of fake, I guess, or like the facade of
conflict that is created by the character here that's in the
trailer that makes it look like it's full of conflict, which is
really interesting. And that is certainly like a
safty troop. They feel like the Hold Me Back
directors, like where every one of their lead characters is,
like, doing a hold Me Back thing or like on the precipice of
being violent and then violence inevitably comes toward them.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll put it So we kick off with
the dog in the second act. After crashing through the motel
bathroom, landing on the random gangster guy, they decide to
make good take the dog to the vet with the money.
Naturally, they. Detour make good for the money,
yeah. They detour to a bowling alley
to hustle. Poor White.
People, which is the color of money sequences of the movie.
Maybe the best sequence of the movie.
It's one. Arguably it's one of the top
three or four I have. Another one that I think is
better. But you're right, it's full of
color of money energy. If you haven't seen the color of
money, go watch that immediately.
Challengers is deeply inspired by color of money.
This movie is inspired by color of money in terms of like love
triangle slash, like mentor mentee, toxic relationship in a
sports film. It's really like some of the
best you've ever seen this genre.
And it's also Scorsese and Thelma Schoonmaker.
You know, Schoomaker in particular at the top of her
power as an editor. So Marty's like doing the Tom
Cruise kind of again, like running like a maniac, shit
talking, ping ponging ego off of like Tyler's more eccentric guy
he's doing in the bowling alley. And I guess Marty's whole thing
is that he's basically being racist and a loser and the the
poor white people who are more more likely than not racist are
now feeling like they have to protect.
Yeah, well, this is like a. Tyler because Marty's such an
asshole. Or like that's the performances
that they're putting on. Exactly in this hustle like
sequence, which I love that it's a it's a ping pong match in a
bowling alley because the bowling alley sounds make it
feel more like just the. The.
Balls into like the pins makes it feel heightened, right?
Makes it feel. Violent too.
Yeah, it also. Like gives the busyness of of
bowling alleys. There's also something about
bowling alleys where you feel kind of exposed and you're like.
Weirdly, that was the one place my dad told me as a teenager he
was like as an adult, never go to a bowling alley after 10:00
PM. Well, they're open to like 2:00
PM like or two AM 20 yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, like, so I, I think that it was just an interesting
I space, right? That like heightened the
hustling sequence in itself, which I I really like the
setting. But yeah, like it at first I was
like, OK, yes, you're right. Timmy is like playing this like
part of being racist toward Tyler, the Creator's character.
And then we have all these like white guys who are standing up
for Tyler, The Creator, and basically like trying to rally
around putting in all of their money to go against Timmy in
order to get, you know, Tylers character like a ride home.
Because the whole like bit was that he had lost all his money
to even just like get home. And so like, at first I was
like, I don't know if this like this is realistic.
But then later on, obviously, like when Timmy and Tyler like
leave the bowling alley, we do see like the the kind of like
true colours of the people at the bowling alley who are like
rallying around Tyler's character, who are actually like
racist. And it feels like they won
because Tyler and Timmy are like dancing outside of their car,
pushing it to the gas station. Of them like they get out of the
car as it's just like because they're pushing it right.
So it's going super slow and they're just like singing to
each other with all the money. They're so excited.
Yeah, it's. Great.
And then the white guys pull up in their jock and it turns into
like what you're what you're about to witness?
So like 2 guys get murdered by these dudes.
Gas station blows up. Gas station blows up.
Somehow the dog escapes or falls out.
One of the small moments of empathy we see Timmy's character
have where he's, like, go back for the dog.
Yeah. And like doesn't at the same
time is not like kind of it's not setting into him that he
ruined Tyler's character's like cab, which is the way he makes
money for his family. Right, because the secret part
of that empathy, that is a moment of empathy or humanism of
the character. There's a humanity to Marty in
that moment. It's also wrapped in transaction
because he like sees the dog as a representation of like
potential more money he can make exactly assuming he wants to.
Keep the dog, the cash, the. Plan already started.
I think once he saw the cash in the bag he was like, I could
keep this dog, try to get more money off this guy.
Turn this dog into $1,000,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so Tyler, like, explodes on Marty.
He's like, you're fucking my life up.
I have responsibilities. Forget about the fucking dog.
After that, Marty crashes at the ping pong gym because he's
nowhere to stay. Sleeps upstairs.
By the way love, I wish we got more time at this like ping pong
gym I. Like how he knows everybody.
I like how they all know him. Yeah, that that sequence in
particular really reminded me of Color of Money, like in the
upstairs. Boxing movies too.
Yeah, school hall. Oh, yeah.
Just there. It's always like an upstairs
gym. That's so true.
Yeah. But I mean, I, I love like the
opening of the movie where just show me how something works.
Like show me the in and out practical days of like the
everyone playing all these matches in this kind of like
warehouse situation at the very beginning of like keeping the
clock and like the keeping score between this.
Like it felt kind of like how I see chess in different movies
where everyone's like playing their own game and there's like
a clock and stuff. But I love the those types of
sequences and sports movies. Great Chess is another one.
Queen's Gambit did a number on us during the pandemic.
Great show. Wish it was a movie after that.
Yeah. So he crashes at this gym.
Odessa's character is there. She has a black eye.
And it is shocking, right? Because you're thinking, well,
maybe that's not what's shocking.
What's shocking, I guess, is the reveal that the black eye is not
real. Yeah, I think that's the
shocking reveal, sort of because I think I I think I turned to
you and been like, pretty sure this is fake leaning into what
this movie is all about hustlers.
And like, this is going to be a gendered hustle from the POV of
this filmmaker, right? In which it, you know, obviously
is problematic. And we can talk about that.
When yeah, when you said that's because you leaned in and and
said that and I was like, no way someone would do that in 2025.
Like even if it's even if it's within the movie.
So do you want to? There's a safty woman problem
and and all of their films, I think the smashing machine plus
this being in theaters only a month or two apart from one
another. But we can also bring up uncut
gems in this conversation. Odessa's character and Marty
Supreme is is underwritten. She finally gets a moment here
where we think we're going to learn more about her character.
Unfortunately, it's at the hands of like domestic abuse.
But then we realize or it's revealed to us about halfway
through the film or maybe like hour 45 into that.
That's her hustle, right, Right. Turns out to be fake, and it's
incredibly frustrating because basically the one big reveal
about her character is rooted in pretending to be.
Is yeah rooted in like this like stereotype of women?
Lying about gender. Use.
Yeah, which is insane. And like, I think people, you
know, might have the take of like, oh, you're taking this too
seriously. It is a movie about hustling and
maybe in a gender context, but blah, blah, blah.
OK, doesn't matter. It is actually like the most
insane thing to have character who's a woman in a movie in
2025, regardless of when it was set, have a black eye that she
painted on herself and play into the idea of like women as
manipulate, manipulative or like lying figures when.
Who weaponize their innocence, faking victimhood.
When there are actual like, just first of all, like not movies
made about women or like, you know, and, and, and also the,
the idea of like domestic violence not being taken
seriously or understanding like why women might not report like
domestic violence and how that like comes into or that's like a
very complicated situation in terms of like women having
access to their own like financial stability, right?
Like so to have that included in your movie #1 is like a huge red
flag is like, who is the person making this movie?
And you can just say like it, it's just a movie and it worked
within the plot again. But I, I think that we're kind
of past the point as audiences in terms of what we're consuming
to not have a critical stance towards that and not ask more
for like, why do we have movies that are made about men, even
boyish men that were kind of like sort of satirizing or like
making fun of in this vein of Marty Supreme, but still have
something like this show up, which is insane to me.
And I, and it's obviously like a possible like safty problem.
Other other male directors, by the way, do have like a woman
problem that we've talked about where?
Male directors in this genre in particular in like the American
Cautionary Tales where says he's had this issue in his
filmography. PTA has had this issue in his
filmography. Chazelle even like that's.
What? We've talked about this, right,
But like, if we're just like talking about the the Safdie
universe right now, it's obviously very telling that the
Emily Blunt character in smashing Machine, which is
what's the other Safdie brothers, Benny.
Benny Josh and Benny Safdie, Yeah.
And then in Josh's movie here, right where we have like the
Odessa and then the Gwyneth Paltrow characters, but
specifically in Smashing Machine.
It's insane. It was like.
A movie. A movie that has its.
Strength. I also don't want to like spoil
it. I'm not going to spoil it, but
number one, it's interesting. It's a sports movie too, right?
Like Marty Supreme and. It's an anti sports movie.
Exactly. It's looking at like similar
kind of things where we're expecting maybe more or so in
the smashing machine, expecting like certain tropes to show up
in the sports movie that it actually is subversive with.
And it has an interesting kind of like meditation on
masculinity specifically and how the public like frames the Rock,
you know, playing a sort of UFC fighter.
And so that is interesting. But the way that Emily Blunt's
character is framed is wild. Everyone.
It is a wild. It is giving.
I don't know any women in my life truly.
It's like I maybe only knew my mom and like she didn't she
didn't tell me like what was going on totally in her life
because she felt like I couldn't handle it.
You know what I mean? Like this is it was like
shocking, like it it was essential.
It it feels like well. I felt like there was a point
being made-up until like an hour and 15 into the movie, and then
there's a turn that happens where it takes a side of the two
characters in the film and it's not Emily Blunt's character
side. You're like, oh fuck.
But, and I think I felt this way too in like we walked out of the
movie right out of Murray Supreme and and we both said
like, I really liked it. Obviously, Timmy's performance
was phenomenal. It's the best part of the movie.
It might be better than the. Movie, the performance, I think.
I think that is totally true. It might be better.
Than the tools of cinema being used in the film which is the.
Movie was exciting and to catch me if you can vain.
It's not the like total genre of movie that we love, even though
we love a subversive sports film.
I like its ideas though that we're going to get to at the
end. Yeah, or a subversive, again,
like meritocracy film. So like, it has things that we
like, but ultimately I think that there's a type of humor
that feels so like boyish that is in the same like line of or
path of manchild comedy that our generation grew up with in the
Adam Sandler kind of, you know, like movies, Will Ferrell.
Yeah, exactly. So I think that type of humor
just like never really like clicked with me.
Growing up and I think I saw a lot of like young boys who were
in like in in social positions of power that they didn't really
like understand, didn't kind of like weaponize.
And I know that sounds weird to say because it's just like
comedies like step brothers. We're also.
Educators so. We're yeah, like we like this is
an observation that has been happening.
Yeah. The since I was like younger
also as a professional, like just viewing how like young kids
operate and and socialize like with each other, but like
weaponizing different things that are seen as comedy in terms
of like sexist or racist comments and then using them so
that they can be distanced. And it's just a quote UN quote
joke is something that I think like is repurposed in a
different way in these movies in terms of at least smarty supreme
with like the the boyish humor that I just don't like click
with. Like I think that I wasn't
laughing at and I, and I think people could argue like, Oh
well, that humor is supposed to like make you feel uncomfortable
and have a a role to play in the movie.
But I do think there is also there's something else
underneath of it of like thinking that also, like,
Timmy's character is maybe like, interesting or funny or like
some of the jokes that are made that they are like a funny.
Yeah. Like, they're, they're like, not
funny. But then there's a second layer
of it being like, Can you believe it?
Can you believe they said this? Right, Right.
That kind of idea of like, oh, he said, you know, something
he's not supposed to say. That type of humor is not like,
I'm not asking for what people would think is like sanitized
films. Like I want to see real people
on screen and I want to see people who are, you know, like
we we like movies that show that people like are socialized and
and do terrible things like that.
You know, but it's in the in the kind of like, it's really like
difficult to explain, but in the like kind of guys are like film
of like of humor. It gets like complicated.
And I also just don't think it's like, interesting.
That's the big point for me. I think this is a a big issue I
have with critics who love this kind of humor or even some
things like the the PTA film that I think is maybe the best
movie of the year and one bad after another that has some like
Christmas adventure stuff that I felt like was like out of town
with the rest of the movie. Kind of speaks to what you're
saying. A lot of the jokes in Uncut Gems
speaks to what you're saying. And also Marty Supreme, my
thing. This is a classic thing.
I've said so much on our podcast that I feel bad repeating it so
many times. Just because you can identify
that something is subversive and transgressive and intentionally
so. Intention does not equate
success. Like attention does not mean
effectiveness. Does that make sense?
Like, yeah, so I, I feel like I've said it so many times or
something to that effect. Just because you can identify
and locate, oh, there is an intentional second layer here or
third layer does not make that fucking thing interesting.
Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
Like. It's you're not able to like
have a grasp on it. Yeah.
And it doesn't mean that you shouldn't like.
Maybe like try it in. A or or.
My point is like, just just because it was intentional to
not make Kitty Oppenheimer a main character in Oppenheimer,
doesn't make it a good thing. Doesn't make it good that you
can locate that there was an intention from the artist.
She's actually not a character because she wasn't a character
in Oppenheimer's life. Yeah, it's a part of his
character journey that she's absent, and so she has to be
absent from the story we're telling and this fiction.
Yeah, I hate those people. I think they're honest.
I do hate them intellectually, like those critics especially
like they're my least favorite. People I I also think that
there's something to this of kind of having a, a public film,
I guess in the film space perception of like, isn't this
interesting? Isn't this a subversive film or
like doing something different and like, yes, tonally, visually
maybe, but in terms of like the humor, it feels like really
dated. Not in the same way, right?
I can't exactly put my finger on it.
I think we. Talked about this with Eddington
go back on this with Eddington episode, which people hate that
episode by the way. Like I mean people are very loud
about how much they disagree with us about Eddington, even
though it's a movie we like and our master as a film maker we
love. There's like a couple scenes in
there where like you know Joaquin Phoenix shouts out like
a like a slur a dad shouts A shouts out a slur to his kid at
a dinner table and our whole crowd is laughing.
And just because the intention is to provoke or be subversive
does not mean that that is a thing that we should explore
because it's interesting or and so like, it's a you.
Mean like, well, but unless it's successful is what you're
saying, like it's not something that you should like, maybe like
save it for your next movie when you feel like you figured out
figured out how to position it in a way that makes an
interesting, not just you're you're a mirror to the audience.
And then you don't say anything about it interesting in your
press run. And then it's just quite
literally like seeing shit that happens that is outside of the
screen on screen without anything interesting to say.
But you're acting like you didn't have something
interesting to say by just putting it there.
Yeah, I mean this. I think to me, this is always
this conversation always goes back to my mind, to Tropic
Thunder and like arguing with kids at middle school tables.
I've never seen Tropic Thunder I.
Remember being like cafeteria tables like at like 2 days in
football practice, like arguing with like, or maybe it was like
freshman or sophomore or high school arguing with kids my age
about Tropic Thunder being problematic.
And I was that an annoying kid. I was like, now this movie, this
movie is wrong. And I was, and I was saying like
it's basically people and I saw kids my age do this, especially
boys all the time. I'm not being racist, I'm making
fun of racist people. I'm not being sexist.
I'm making fun of sexist people. And I'm like, that's just a
disguise for you to be sexist and racist.
And it's very white. It's a very white person thing
to do. And if you're in white circles
enough, you hear white people do it, especially in liberal
circles. It's done a lot.
A lot of like quoting movies. Yeah.
Anyways, so that's that's I think are a bit about the the
how women are treated in the Marty Supreme film, but also and
the safety project at large. And if you do watch smashing
machine, just like the the scene where it does turn, I like did
it to Trey this morning as a joke because it's like really
wild there. Yeah.
Anyway, it paints like kind of the Emily Blunt character as a a
manipulative villain, very in a very gendered way.
And here, though, like I would say that the boy fantasy of of
women hustling quote UN quote in their own way, which is, you
know, fucked up and just like a stupid thing to put in a movie.
But the the second thing that I brought up earlier, the like
Gwyneth Paltrow kind of like fantasy of like the shower sex
scene, even though it was purposely like, you know, not
very romantic or whatever is like an it's just like a
insulting image. Like for a woman of like this
like age and this like status, like, yes, we can make an
interesting comment on like why she's even in this room and how
like she maybe doesn't feel like valued whatever, like, but like
that's not made. Do you know what I mean?
So that's kind of like an example of what it was.
Played like a sex scene from Menorah, basically, yeah.
By the way, the Safdies would love.
They would love to have made a Nora that feels like they're.
That's so true. Yeah.
It does feel, yeah, Yeah, I think Sean Baker and the and the
Safdies are like an interesting comparison.
Yeah, it definitely feels like Safdies are doing more.
So like a Scorsese. I'm curious of.
Grittiness like a casino? What?
I'm curious to know if Sean Baker would like the Safdies.
I don't know if you'd like their humor.
He seems. To like people on the ground
level too much like people who have been other than society
being like the that's a really looking on the outside.
End yeah, when when and I think it's actually a really good
comparison because when you look at you know a film like Florida
project and you know again, like we we talked about on our
Florida project Patreon episode of like yes, he is a white guy
like going into communities and like making stories like off of
their stories. But like he makes a point to
like live in the communities, like essentially kind of do like
mini ethnographies, like interviews like and and tries to
use like non trained actors and. Is like an academic
documentarian. Project is a good example or or
like starlet is like a good example, right of like
humanizing people that tangerine yeah and and but like still
keeping particularly in Florida. Project A sort of, it's not like
grittiness or whatever, but like essentially what that people
would call a grittiness in the Safdie films.
No, 100% yeah, while still humanizing people who are
otherwise like Safdie movies, not humanized like Woman in the
Periphery often like Shawn Baker does a good job with that.
We did talk about. How that complicated in Nora, I
think Julia Fox is like maybe the perfect example to to look
at and that like right, like the how the Julia Fox character was
positioned in the in Unka gems verse.
How in Nora, Annie or Annie I forgot right is position in in
Anora? Anyways, OK, so Odessa after
finding out that the domestic abuse was quote UN quote faked,
Marty flips out, tells her to leave.
He I think he also adds that he beat up her husband, which we
think we skipped over. He took a trophy from his
childhood home, beat up, you know, his childhood sweethearts
husband. Like I thought pretty brutally.
I thought he killed him. I was like, oh, this just went
Goodfellas, you know, we're like, you know, Ray Leoto gets
the gun in his hand and he goes across the street.
One of my favorite scenes and Odessa tries to.
Wait in the car. Odessa tries to run her own scam
right She they do a good phone call sequence where she gets to
like talk on the phone, but and she's like I.
Want the money before we get the dog?
Right. She goes by herself herself.
This time, though, she's trying to make good, I think, for what
happened. Marty and the dog ransom plot
works against her. She gets abducted and Marty has
to rescue her. Pretty wild, a very meet the
parent situation trying to get a new dog.
I don't know if you see meet the parents, but it doesn't.
Yeah, getting, well, a huge pot of meet the parents is Ben
Stiller. This is OK because I think
everyone has seen this movie now.
Ben Stiller loses Robert De Niro's beloved cat.
Who's the newest Skylar Gazondo and Ariana Grande?
Amazing casting for Skylar Gazondo.
It's great for him. Yeah, I I can't wait.
OK, but back to the dog scheme. I feel like this is a great
example of what the the Safti brothers did such a great job
with, like Inunca Gems for example, and even like the
Smashing Machine has elements of this but in just a different
subversive way. I would say that.
And I know obviously like two different brothers, right?
Like two different visions. But it's really interesting to
see that these were the 2 movies that are made after and they're
kind of like sensibilities going off in two different directions
where it feels like Marty Supreme is very much more so in
the Uncut Gems. Right.
Electricity maximalism. Yeah, They both have a similar
visual palette, similar interest in Cynthia.
Cynthia scores in masculinity studies.
Yes, that's true. But and and also, I guess what I
was a long way of saying creating a problem that then
like you create the solution to which was very Uncut Gems, very
Marty Supreme, very this dog situation, not as much in
smashing machine, but in an interesting way.
The genre creates the problem like there's like something
interesting happening. Yeah, it's it's more a movie
blaming systems for how they reproduce inequalities with
individuals. Yeah, but rather than blaming
individuals, which sometimes sports films do.
Sure. But at the end is not like
totally aware of that anyway. But we can talk about that on
our end of your episode, ironically.
Kind of. Shocking moment at the end of
smashing the. Sheep.
I feel like I might as well fucking say it at this point.
I whatever, we'll just move on. We got move on.
OK. So OK, dog situation shoot out.
So he goes to rescue. Thank you.
He goes to rescue Odessa's character and I think he wait,
does he go to rescue? I don't think he finds out quite
yet. He goes him.
And Jessa are like going to find a dog trying to figure out the
situation. They find the house, the guy
tries to shoot at them, they leave.
Eventually he goes to visit Gwyneth Paltrow's character
again. He does now, starring in some
kind of like Off Broadway vanity project funded by her husband,
unbeknownst to her, Her husband again being Kevin O'Leary.
Marty tries to seduce her because he's after money.
He wants her necklace, which is why the sex scene happens as a
tool. But then a woman being used as a
tool, again, a safety issue or I guess like the objectification
of a woman as a tool. And he gets the necklace,
realizes that it's just a theater pop, which is a great.
Bit. When the guy comes in and gets
it and he's like. And he's crushed from that.
He goes back to Gwen's Gwyneth's house to see her for her big
party. Well, he goes, no, he goes to
see her before she goes on and turns the necklace which she
clocks, which is funny of like, you know, you, you probably
realize this was a prop necklace and then like brought it back to
me. Yeah, she's like, you're not a
good actor, which is funny. And then they go for a walk in
Central Park. They have sex.
Some cops think he's assaulting her, so then they are, which is
also a strange choice. And then they give the necklace
to the cops to basically you tell them to.
Go keep them quiet too, because otherwise also like people find
out. Be in the news.
Yeah, whatever. And they go back to the house.
She's reeling from the bad reviews, so she can't bring down
another necklace to him. And he goes upstairs.
And this is where we see Kevin O'Leary for the first time.
In a minute, Marty's desperate sort of evil Jonah Hill meets
Leo DiCaprio with a Wall Street moment where he's like, I'll
come work for you for free, Which is one of my favorite
scenes ever in movies, is when Jonah shows Jonah's performance
is insane in that movie. And this is where, you know, the
mask, the confident mask of Marty Supreme drops, right?
And Marty is like begging Kevin to sponsor him one last time or
whatever his character's name is.
And he says he'll do anything. And Kevin O'leary's character's
like cool let me spank you, obviously, which sounds absurd,
but it is thematically perfect. And it was also funny to see
Timothy Chalamet's little like white man ass.
On the screen was I was like, is this a, you know, a double like
this? I thought for sure it was, but
there was a shot that looked like it was impossible.
I mean, I guess they could have composited it in the ass on
there. I think that I think that is
common in Hollywood, yeah. But it wasn't like a it wasn't.
It just looked like a butt. Does that make sense to me?
It was like, why would you even composite 1?
Anyways, I loved this moment thematically because of this
script to me has been like pretty like, OK, there's a lot
of like this happens and that happens.
And this is the first time where I was like, OK, generational
dominance, we're getting somewhere.
The older generation wanting to humiliate the younger one for
sport. What is this younger 1 going to
do to the next generation as a result?
And so Kevin isn't just like. Funding.
That's a hazing process. Yeah, exactly.
He's hazing him, he's molding him, he's breaking him.
It's upsetting, but it's also a thesis of the movie that we'll
come back to at the end with the baby.
It also really reminded me of the Brutalist last year cause
similar story in terms of like Jewish American assimilation,
the cost of capitalism and the way that pretty Corbet's film
looks at Adrien Brody's character and how he's assaulted
metaphorically and literally by the rich, the elites and as he's
the labor. That movie mishandles what it
chooses to do with assault. There's this movie actually does
it in a light hearted way that is still somatically poignant
and like interesting and deep. And it's still like, on the
surface maybe doesn't seem super violent, but it is like violent.
Very violent, yeah. Like, yeah, but you know what I
mean in the characters, like point of view, it's something
that they're almost we we kind of think about them like writing
off as like, this is just something that I had to do to
like, move ahead. But like, is a violent
experience. Yeah.
Right. You might have said it once, but
I think you said that Timothy Chalamet is just like hot boy
Michael Cera. Did you say that or did I say?
That I don't know. I I don't think I've said that.
One of us sat down and I and I think that's right.
And I realized it when I saw his scrawny ass in this.
I just want to note that of being like, oh, he really is
just like hot boy Michael Cera. Yeah.
Because like a super bad came out today.
He will be like Michael Cera. Starve Dune.
But Michael, I've said this before, but the Michael Cera
Cera VE just like marketing again, I know we've been talking
about like the the marketing of Timmy, but like cannot be
understated for what Michael Cera his moves that he is
making. Love, Sarah.
Love him. So Marty goes to rescue Odessa
that night. There's a lot of fake money,
gunfire, more dog theft. Gets Odessa to the hospital
'cause she was shot in the shoulder.
It's a good action sequence. It is, Yeah.
In terms of the gun firing, this is really the main action
sequence of the movie. He leaves her at the hospital.
She's pregnant in a hospital bed.
But I think they said she's going to be fine.
Or if they do or not, he's going to leave regardless.
Yeah, he is like emotionally devastated though, So again,
bringing his humanity back to him, which is going to be
important in about 20 minutes from now.
And he goes on a plane to Japan, the jet from Kevin O'Leary, and
he is going to the ping pong competition.
Right, this kind of like the exhibition pen?
Yeah, the. The ballpoint pen, Yeah,
Marketing campaign, hopefully it worked, I guess.
Actually, hopefully not. I don't know.
And it's a great match. It's a It's a great sequence,
maybe the best sequence of the movie.
Yeah, we have to say before this too, we find out, right?
He the whole reason he's going is to like enter the world
championship, right? And he just thinks that if he
makes it over, there will be like a spot waiting for him.
He was the runner up, finds out from the same guy that we meet
earlier who kind of like humbles him and is like, why do you
think that you would get to stay at the Ritz?
Like, why would we make special accommodations for you in terms
of like everyone else who's staying in the hostel with you?
And here he, you know, Timmy talks to the same guy, the same
guy's like, no, like all of the registration and scheduling is
like totally done for the brackets and stuff.
And he's like, we're not doing that.
So Timmy's going into this match or into this kind of like fake,
you know, game with the idea that this is his one shot to
show that he's better than the guy who beat him.
And it's great on multiple fronts.
It's an incredible like metaphor laced, you know, final showdown
with Marty and his like all brash American ego, cartoonishly
egoistic. And then you have the more kind
of like the quiet, reserved Japanese champion who's also
just kind of a badass himself. And for Marty, obviously, ping
pong has been a hustle up into this point in his life.
It's become a brand for him. It's a lifestyle.
I think Xiaomi really related to that.
But for the Japanese player, Marty starts to notice, but
especially the audience in the direction of this film, it's
really smart direction that for the Japanese player, this is
like a Nash. He's become a national symbol
and his performance means something to a country and
dealing with post war traumas in 19501951 whatever this is in the
early 50s as they just lost their national identity right?
And Marty is just there to win because of insecurities at this
point 'cause he's not doing it for money.
There's not really an economic reason, even though you could
argue there's like a social economic like motivation in his
childhood whatever, but and especially being an immigrant
and being a Jewish American. Yeah, there is an awareness,
right, of like his mom, like at one point the family friend is
like, you're not going to be able to provide for your mother.
And he's like, I'm going to step up, right.
So there is obviously like an awareness of the why he had feel
like he needs to like hustle, right, and not getting like, you
know, certain opportunities having to like either choose
between like working for probably little pay right at a
shoe store or trying to like make it big.
But ultimately, like the movie is well, well, not ultimately
like I think yes, there is like a definitely awareness of the
movie that is looking at like Marty Mauser's story as a Jewish
immigrant, but like, and the limited opportunities that he
has at this time in like New York.
But at the same time, like the movie is doing a kind of like
double through line or there are two different paths where then
on the other hand, the movie is using Marty as like Marty
Supreme as the idea of this like American exceptionalism and
American kind of like idea of of making it being on a Wheaties
box myth of meritocracy, American dream.
So like the movie is doing both things.
But I think in this scene, this scene in particular, it's more
so on that second path that that we're talking about, especially
kind of like in the sports film genre.
Yeah, Marty Mauser trades in Mauser for Supreme and then
loses not only his identity, but like a a sense of like a
basically a sense of self. And so like this is a sad,
tragic loss for him even though he is up winning.
But the irony is that he is ultimately still in a privilege
situation, not just as a white man, but as a white American at
this stage in American history. And so when he goes to defeat
this man in Japan, it really underlines the post World War or
two. You know, Japanese rebirth meets
the oncoming storm of American globalization and
exceptionalism. Now in ping pong form, which is
the satire of it all, because it's ping pong.
And so it's kind of funny to use ping pong instead of something,
you know, different, a different commodity, right?
That would underline that more effectively or more seriously.
So O'leary's like done with him because Marty wins.
It's a great final match. And you know, Marty doesn't lose
like he was supposed to. And O'leary's like you're done.
Yeah. He's like, well, that was a
really good scene because Marty was like, I'm going to go out
there and win. And he's like, no, no, you don't
understand. Like you're not just, like, done
here. Like you don't get paid for this
gig, but like, you're done everywhere.
Like I have connections. Yeah.
Right, so we get the ending. He returns to Odessa.
She's had the baby. He sits beside her, basically in
silence. Wait, sorry, back up really
quick. This this scene emotionally I
think was like the best scene. Like best part of the
performance for Timmy, like when he kind of.
Take us on the military plane first.
Well, no. The military planes after this.
The military plane. Wait, what?
I've I've meant the match itself, the military planes
after you. Oh, I thought you meant the
hospital scene was emotional. OK, the.
Match was emotional, No. Oh, I didn't.
Yeah, I guess the the I thought it was a good performance, but I
didn't get emotional or anything in the hospital scene.
That was my favorite sequence of the movie.
OK. Then let's go to my favorite
sequence of the movie before. The match we were talking about,
that's. Chronological, but but when
we're in the match and we have Timmy, you know, go through the
like I'm going to win to prove to myself because this won't be
now posted anywhere. I'm not in a competition that I
can beat this guy and and not having again, like the awareness
of what this like match symbolizes.
But then again, it's like a second layer of this being in a
particular like exhibition environment of selling pens.
So like there's also that, but like in the actual just match
itself that you're talking about like being wanting to.
It's very clear, right, That pens aside, selling pens aside
and the Kevin O'Leary character aside that in this match between
two like athletes, right, that he is kind of like unaware of
the the kind of politics like that are within this match and
wants to like win it to prove it to himself.
And so that but the whole emotional sequence of that and
and kind of like recognizing and respecting his opponent and like
slowly gaining consciousness. I just thought was like really
well done. Like I thought it was shot
really well. The kind of emotion that Timmy
is is showing in this scene, different from other parts of
the movie, where he feels just so much more distant.
I I just thought it was like a really great sports sequence
that. I mean like collapses to the.
Ground was a sports sequence, but also like was anti sports
sequence like it within that moment, he understood in a way,
right that it like wasn't about maybe like being the greatest
person to ever play ping pong. Like he understood like within
this context what like losing like he would have been like
like honored, I guess to lose because it was a good match kind
of thing. Again, this is not to say like
sports conversations are always like complicated because they've
come with a lot of different, I guess, like ideologies of of
like being happy to like do labor and like doing it for
like, you know what I mean? Like that's not what I'm saying.
It's not like he came to to realize that like he shouldn't
actually like work towards greatness, whatever.
It's just like, I think he had a sort of like wake up in that
moment, right? It felt like he like.
I don't think he did. No, you don't think.
So this is what I was going to ask you about the end of this
movie. I was going to ask you about the
hospital sequence. But it's interesting you started
there in the match, because I think the match is like more
symbolic of like he made a joke about this early.
I think he made an atomic bomb joke earlier in the film.
He also made a Holocaust joke too.
Like I think it was more so like he basically just like he thinks
he just. Like he realized he wasn't like.
God individually, no. I think he feels like he won
something individually and he doesn't care about the cost.
That's been the theme of his character the whole movie.
In this case, it's the cost of a national identity like ping pong
means something to him as an individual.
It's a joke to most Americans in Japan at this time.
This was everything and so like like so that he doesn't care
that what the cost and the loss is this like he didn't he didn't
care about his friends losing. He didn't care about Tyler the
crater losing his car. He didn't care about Odessa
being like homeless. He didn't care about this dog.
Everything's been transactional to him as a way to move up in
the world. And when it comes to like a
literal country's culture and identity at this stage in their
history, especially post like a nuclear Holocaust.
He's like, I'd rather just win than you guys have like this,
this faux happiness through sports for the next few years.
You know what I mean? To rebuild.
OK, so. So the collapse is supposed to
be like laughably absurd because he's so self absorbed.
Like when he collapses on the ground he's like so ecstatic.
Interesting. OK, so that's how I viewed.
It no, I think that checks out so he.
Come he comes home to the, you know, the baby boomer generation
and like, that's that. I think that's the major theme
of the movie. Yeah.
I mean, I don't think to, I guess to be more clear, like I
didn't think he had like a total awareness of like the match
itself or like, yeah. But I, I did think that he had
like a little bit of like humbling and maybe isn't totally
the right word, but maybe, yeah of him like recognizing that
he's like playing people who also have similar ambitions.
He did. He did seem like he cared about
the guy, so I see that he cared about like.
It felt like a wake up in that sense, but but not in a way
where it was like a traditional sports movie of like coming to
this awareness of like unity and like what I like.
Not in a not in a cliche way or a way that is like actually like
positively maybe portraying the character that they like had
this realization of that now the audience is going to have and.
Like, to be very clear, you were saying you saw it as a sign of
like the scene as a sign of maturity versus immaturity.
And I saw it as a scene of immaturity.
Yeah, that's fascinating. So I think that's that's a
credit to the movie because we never do this on the podcast.
We're usually on the same page. Let us know in the comments,
listeners, how you felt about the end of this movie, going to
the hospital sequence. Real quick, I don't think the
maturity was like a lesson like this.
Like, I don't think the movie was like, here's a lesson.
I know you're not saying it's a moral lesson.
Yeah, like, I don't think it was like ultimately like forgiving
his character or anything like that.
It might be the first time you saw him as self aware.
Yes and I've felt the opposite. It was like the the most unaware
he's been. OK, so then go to the end on.
This national stage where he thinks it's like this private
moment, but it's on all the TV's in Japan.
I guess that's true. Like, does that make sense?
Like he's like, I'm just living like this doesn't matter to
America. It only matters to me.
Therefore, American exceptionalism.
Marty Supreme. Like it's.
Yeah. So I mean.
You're probably more right in the context of the movie.
I don't know. And like, that's what I'm.
Saying I could be more. Cynical about this?
No, no, I think that it's right to be cynical about it.
I think my probably understanding of it and maybe
connection to watching Timmy in the movie rather than Marty
Supreme too. And also coming from a a
background of like treating it like a sports movie, maybe also
like kind of plays into my understanding of that scene.
But I mean, I think like, I like your take better than mine and
I, and I do agree that I think it like aligns with the movie
holistically and why I think the movie's interesting.
And it is actually like, it's weird 'cause like I want to give
Josh Safdie credit for like I think it is a really interesting
movie. But at the same time, like
there's something that feels unexamined about it as a satire
that we've been talking about in terms like The Wolf of Wall
Street and everything. So but that feels like
forgiving. It does feel in a way for giving
towards Timmy's character, not in a way that absolves him, but
that does try to humanize them at the end.
So maybe I don't know this movie.
I'll be interested in what I think when I when I watch it
again. It deserves to be in the
conversation with, like, Wolf of Wall Street in terms of like,
satirizing its protagonists. That movie is more maximalist
and extremist and is like really doing its best to show the worst
of behavior in American culture to like a really dangerous
degree. This movie doesn't really get
there. It's like more like embarrassing
behavior, if that makes sense. Then like this kind of elitist
behavior. I would say it's, I would say
it's more tonally, visually, just like in the movie itself,
more aware than Wolf of Wall Street was.
Yeah. Or, or I guess maybe we're clear
to the audience, besides the problems I already talked about.
And they're like similar problems that I have, obviously,
for this movie and like Wolf of Wall Street.
So yeah, that's its own podcast, which we already did on Patreon.
So he returns to Odessa's character.
She's had the baby again. He sits by her in silence,
eventually says like. Excuse me?
Wakes her up. Damn, he's selfish.
It's the character. This is I literally like I
literally turned to you and gasped.
I was like, I cannot believe this happened.
She just gave birth. OK.
He comes home and wakes her up. She's sleeping.
It's crazy. So basically he goes to see the
baby? Yeah, he full body sobs.
Chalamet does. It's the most human.
We've seen him, Marty, throughout the whole film.
We've really seen him cry, right?
Chalamet doing his best crying at the screen.
We've seen since Call Me By Your Name.
So it's been almost 10 years, so it's good for him.
He's letting out what is going to be ambiguous.
I think to a lot of people, it's going to have different
interpretations. Is it guilt?
Is it fear? Is it pride?
Is it failure? Is it happiness?
It's up for interpretation for what the performance means to
you. It's kind of a twisted,
multifaceted emotion that he was conveying where it feels like
he's conveying 6 emotions at once.
You're also the end of a nine month journey with this
character, so it's a lot for you, the viewer.
It's a long movie and it's paced mostly really well except a few
moments. I think the Sappies have an
issue with like meandering a little bit.
Yeah, there's a a part where you start feeling the time.
And I felt like this is Uncut Gems too, Yeah.
Uncut Gems especially has it has a moment where Sandler like gets
home with his family and there's like chilling for like 20
minutes, which is like surprising considering the whole
movie won't stop at all. But for me, I was wondering this
at the end of this film, I was like, is he crying looking at
this baby because he's changed? Or is he crying because he feels
trapped? Is he looking this baby like
this is the best thing I've ever made?
Is this baby my new ping pong ball?
Going back to like the beginning of the movie when the sperm,
like basically the insemination turns into a ping pong ball.
And it says Marty Supreme across the screen.
Is this the worst version of himself reborn, the best version
of himself reborn through a baby?
Is it a clean slate for him? Is this baby going to be his
winner that he could not be? Like, I'm thinking about all
these things while watching this because I know so many shitty
men in my life from this country because I live here, especially
white men. And we don't get an answer
because the movie ends on his face.
So let me ask you to start and then we'll have this like, final
discussion to end today's podcast.
It's been a great episode. Yeah, it's been fun.
It's been fun. Knowing that you had a little
bit more of an optimistic reading of his maturity, at
least in that moment, how did you read this crying scene?
Taking the fact that it's also Timmy crying at you, the
audience. So it is kind of a lot you're
having like this meta experience while watching it.
What did what did you think was going through his mind?
Well, I didn't think it. Was Hardy's character.
I didn't think it was like, I'm so happy I have this, like,
child. Yeah.
I thought it was more so like, we just keep, like, moving,
right? Like, yeah, and there are
moments and I think this movie is like good to compare to the
Uncut Gems. There are moments where Adam
Sandler is like, I feel so high right now, right?
Like I just won this bet, Like, but it's short lived.
And for me, that's what it felt like.
It didn't feel like happiness. It felt like a a release #1
it's. Good way to put it.
Because we've been just like, like the gears have just been
like consistently going throughout the movie.
But I, I felt like it was a, a catch, like not real, like
relief for happiness, like not totally like a reflection point
or anything like that. It was kind of like a, a short
lived like, oh, this is my baby, which, you know, before he had
said like, that's not my child. Which we I think we can
understand that maybe she wasn't having sex with her husband,
right? I think so too.
So that's that's how she like definitely knows that it's
Timmy's. But I I think here like that's
just what the movie was to me. It was like this isn't it's kind
of shown as or portrayed as what we would see as like a happy
ending or him kind of like quote UN quote settling down, which is
weird too, but I don't know, like I I also didn't think it
was him totally be thinking like, oh, now I have to enter
into like the workforce and work at the the shoe store and be a
shoe salesman. Like I didn't think it was a
realization of that either, which it very well could have
been in like different movies. There could have been like a
reflection or recognition scene, which I don't think it was.
There could have been a happiness scene, which I don't
think it was. I felt like it was this kind of
ownership high of like, oh, like, I went through this like
experience that I feel like for a short time transformed me.
Which by the way, we love that he came back on the military
plane because they're like 10 guys in the military rooting for
America with no like concept of table tennis.
But I felt like he. Was like, they're Johnny
Manziel. Yeah, I always, there's a short
high right of like, I just went through this like thing that was
important to me and now I have something that I can like pour
creativity into. I think he's a project.
Like that's what it felt more like to me.
But it felt like again, hollow in in the way that it it wasn't
like his character has like a full kind of reflection moment
like similar to Uncut Gems. Yes, I I agree.
I agree. I keep thinking about like
directorial intent. I kept thinking about like the
artistic direction and being like, what was the, this felt
like a thesis of the movie, looking at his face, crying at
the baby. And I feel like I'm circling
around this point and kind of saying it a little bit.
But I think the reason why we like Marty Mauser but are
irritated by Marty Supreme is because Marty Mauser is a stand
in for like the sympathetic silent generation, this
marginalized, assimilated immigrant generation clawing for
recognition through any tools necessary, which happened to be
capitalism in America. And also performativity, like
performance, like Gwyneth Paltrow represents this as well.
And there are moments where we saw Marty be a human, like Marty
Mauser loves his mom, loves his childhood sweetheart, his best
friends, his this dog. But then the movie is like
reckoning throughout the film of like America's turning him into
Marty Supreme. He's losing his identity.
He's trading it in not really by choice, but by pressure.
And America as an idea creates this mythos of Marty Supreme.
And the film asks us by starting the movie out this way when he
in Odessa's character have sex and then the movie ends with
birth in the film is like, OK, if Marty Supreme is created by
America, what does Marty Supreme create?
And that's where it hit me when watching it.
I was like, Oh my God, this is 1950 Queens, NY.
He just like made the boomer generation.
If anything that babies Donald Trump like that's not And I hate
the idea that like every movie is about Trump post 2016 in
America. But, and I'm not saying this
movie is, but it feels certainly like an indictment of a
generation that is a product of American exploitation of
immigrants. And like what kind of like white
anger comes out of that culture or that kind of like era in the
boomer generation that basically ruined America and still is
running America from the Reagan generation on it it.
I think the movie is kind of reckoning with this idea that
Marty Supremes, or the Marty Supremes of the world, while
sympathetic, birth the boomers. This.
Like, I didn't even put it in a a timeline where I would
understand that that baby is a part of the boomer generation.
That's fascinating. Well, I think it only hit me
because I watched the Greatest Generation spank the Silent
Generation and they got such a bad spanking that they race the
Boomer generation. And I was like that that works
like just the imagery worked. It it clicked in my head while
watching Xiaomi cry at his child where I was like, oh, he's like,
this is like a creation myth about the end of America.
Like this is like fascinating like this.
Like this twerp is going to birth the nightmare of the 20
twenties America which. Yeah.
Or like the, yeah, the the kind of like what we've been talking
about in terms of this like American Dream Hustle, right?
Is the, the, it's like, it's interesting because I, I like
that take because as we've been talking about, this movie has
two different threads, but it leans heavy as we go into it
more and more on that second thread of like this American
Dream ideology. And it's more so like the
ideology, like birthing this child, right?
Exactly, that's what I'm about to bring as a symbol.
The movie is successful, I think at that, Like it's detaching it
from just like an individual. Right.
And I think that's what I'm saying, like the sympathy that's
baked in about him being a first or second generation Jewish
American is separate from the symbol that he becomes as like
the American prototype for the worst generation America ever
birthed, Which I think makes this like sort of like a
village, a villain origin story at the end.
Like when I see the baby on rewatch, I think I'm going to be
like, that baby's fucked up. Like, I don't know.
There's going to be like a second layer to this where I'm
like, this movie is kind of evil and I love that about it.
That reading could be way off. I could be reading the match way
off. I could be reading the end of
this film way off. It could be way more like I've
never heard the Safdie's talk about or sorry, Josh Safdie talk
about it. But I'm really excited to see it
again because I think there's a lot of potential for for writing
about this film, for discourse around this movie.
I think, I mean, you can definitely tell, at least in
these two projects that the brothers made, Like it feels
like Benny Safdie is a little bit more like sentimental in
terms of his filmmaking, at least in this particular story.
That's the smashing machine and. Sorry, I was yeah, in The
Smashing Machine where it feels like that movie, while
commenting on the sports movie, still is embracing it in ways
that are very unexamined and feel kind of what we're having
the conversation at the beginning of the of the Murray
Supreme like episode here that feel unexamined in a way that
feel not only silly but like shocking, right.
Because you're like it. It's just unaware of like class
and yeah of like the the people in sports like being also like
objectified and and commodified. And so like, that's interesting
to see smashing machine to see Marty Supreme next to each
other. So I do, I do think they're you
know, Marty Supreme is a way better movie than like the
smashing machine as a sports movie as a movie over all.
I think if you like uncut Gems like, you'll definitely like
this more and I think it has interesting things to say.
But I don't like. Oh no, not the Nunca gem, sorry.
I like it more than the smashing machine.
Sorry to put the brothers against each other because like,
that's also maybe not fair. They're both good film makers.
Yeah, I like the. I like, even though I don't like
the smashing machine. I like the way it's shot.
Yeah, there's some. There are part.
There are moments. There is, yeah.
But yeah, anyway, Marty Spring, good movie.
Maybe great movie, I don't know, I got to see a second time.
No, I think it's, I think it's pretty great.
I think I'm trying to separate myself from the reaction to this
movie, which is going to be, I love Marty, like the character,
like I think there is going to be a little bit of that.
I mean, we are, we are really, really early on this episode.
I am really interested, yeah, to see #1 the like discourse around
it, to read all the letterbox. Reviews.
I haven't heard a podcast on it either.
Yeah, we haven't heard. We haven't heard.
Talk to anyone who's seen it. Yeah, listened to the director
at all. Yeah, yeah.
So we usually won't go in this blind, but we did into a
conversation without. Doing a little bit of prep dive,
yeah. Yeah, because this was a big
deep dive for extra credit. I think we should just like
collectively agree. And there are things I want to
acknowledge like Jack Fisk's production design is pretty
wonderful in here. I don't I didn't question the
1950s once. And like he's one of the most
famous production designers ever.
Obviously there will be blood, recently, Killers, The Fire
Moon. It's great and there's some good
performances. Tyler Odessa.
But I thought we could just do like a Chalamet, revisiting the
Chalamet filmography real quick and you tell me where this sets.
OK, yeah. Not like a draft.
Timmy is. The Timmy is the movie.
He's the draw. So we did a Chalmet ranking on
our Call Me by Your Name episodes.
You can go back and listen to that on Patreon if you're a free
member. I'm pretty sure we did.
Yeah. It was a whole performance
ranking. We did like a top ten.
I don't remember. So I'm just going to tell you my
top 12 Chalmet. OK.
And then you tell me where you
would move up or down. Marty Supreme.
OK, OK. 12 French Dispatch, 11 Lady Bird, 10 The King, 9.
Wonka, 8. Little Women.
And is this his performance? OK, yeah, yeah.
Seven the first Dune 6 Bones and all five Marty Supreme 4A
complete unknown three Beautiful Boy 2 Dune Part 2 and #1 Call me
by your name, but I could swap those.
Wow. I probably would swap those like
5 years from now. I.
Think. I think the Paul, I think.
Marty Supreme. It's hard because Marty Supreme
also though, like you have to take into account that he is
starring in this. So we get a lot of him and he's
doing a louder performance obviously than in other movies.
And I know what you were saying earlier about like, it's really
hard to do Dylan and to capture like what Dylan was as a like
cultural kind of like artifact, but also like.
Is it a? Nick Person Yeah, it's very
difficult, but I still like saw through that performance a
little bit with Timmy. And it's also very difficult.
We talk a lot about like with the whole celebrity of it all.
It's very difficult to separate celebrity from actor in these.
Situations plugged in like we are.
What do you think about that big 5 though?
That first five? Because that is the big. 5I
yeah, yeah, I would. I really have to rewatch
Beautiful Boy and I know it's a depressing movie.
It might be his best though. I don't remember.
I don't remember his performance.
So I can't. I don't know if I can rewatch
that movie dude. Yeah, so, but call me by your
name, I think and Dune are yeah, you're right.
Difficult to separate. I I I'm fine though, with call
me by your name. Oh, Dune too.
I I think, yes, we were. We walked to the Dune 2 and we
said, oh, Timmy can act. Yeah.
I mean, we obviously knew It was like, call me back again.
Maybe Christensen as Anakin Skywalker, But what if, like the
power of Leonardo DiCaprio did it?
Yeah, we're like when he yelled and it like, wasn't it like.
Cringey. Yeah.
In a different made-up language, yeah.
Yeah, I was like, so OK, so I think that Call Me by Your Name
because of the lengths that he's going to emotionally acting is
I'm fine with it at #1 do too. Again, very, very close.
If not #1 like, but yes, like that was where we both, you
know, had seen him in Bones and all, had seen him in Little
Women, had seen all these movies, whatever.
But there we were like, oh, he's carrying a movie and he could do
it. He's about, he's about to like
go off beautiful boy. Again, I have to revisit.
So I'm not going to put it in my top five.
Would you? Replace it with a gerwig
probably. No, I would put Marty Supreme
there. Oh, at 3 so and again, like it's
hard because we're seeing him so much.
But I do think Marty's supreme. And then I think a complete
unknown. I think what?
Will be your 5 then. Oh, is that not fun you?
Took a beautiful boy out. Oh, I did, didn't I?
Bones and always. Really interesting performance.
He was doing something different.
You know, he was cast at the very beginning of his career in
like a Little Women lady bird. Obviously those are both like
Gerwig projects. But then again, and like don't
look up in front dispatch in this kind of like unserious,
like fuck boy, kind of, you know, specific type of role and
bones and all. He really breaks out of that
dune. He's a little bit more quiet.
It's difficult. I think he does a great job, but
at the same time it's like not this performance.
He's more anguished. Yeah, that, that you can really
like, talk about in an interesting way, even though I
think he does a good job. It's really like Rebecca
Ferguson Person's movie and Oscar Isaac's movie for that
one. So The King was great.
I think people should revisit The King Love You, Rob, Pat and
that. Somehow he has a fade in that
movie. But I think the French dispatch
definitely goes. I think he's great as Laurie,
but it's hard for me as a 1994 Little Women, you know, fan to
to. I think a lot of people would
have little woman in the top five.
Yeah, and I. Feel bad not having a girl wig
but he's not a big enough character.
Yeah, the Joe scene is like there.
The rest of it, though, it's hard for me because I think
Christian Bale did it so well that to see Timmy.
And he said that he was like Christian Bale's my favorite
actor growing up. He recently said that he was
like Christian Bale's like my him and Denzel are my dreams.
Yeah, I mean a dream for everyone.
Yeah, truly. But yeah, OK, so I guess Bones
and all, it would be at my #5 and Beautiful Boy obviously
deserves to be up there, probably above like Dune and and
Little Women. But again, I have to see it
again. Let us know your top five
Timothy Chalamet performances in the comments.
Maybe Kyle from Lady Bird. I'm sure there's some Kyle
Truthers out there. Yeah, not everything's war,
Kyle. OK, that was the extra credits
of Timothy Chalamet and Marty Supreme, because I feel like we
did a lot of Chalamet. Yeah, at the top, which I almost
apologize for, but I don't apologize.
I. Don't apologize.
I'm glad we did this. Yeah, it's too bad it wasn't on
video because I feel like this would have done well for the
Chalamet truthers out there. We'll be back soon with what do
we have going on? What do we have going?
On Patreon we might cover Avatar as a bit on the main feed.
What are you? Doing on Patreon besides Titanic
I had. A conversation with director and
writer Adam Bolerich from Eye of the Duck, a great movie podcast.
And we talked about his new movie, his first feature film,
which is a great holiday movie, kind of an anti holiday movie in
some ways. Drink and Be Merry, which is
streaming right now. And you can rent that anywhere
where you rent movies. So I recommend that.
We'll probably put that episode on the next week or so.
But on Patreon, we're covering Knives Out, the Ryan Johnson
film. Oh yeah, people voted on.
It people voted on that film they almost picked Uncle gems
was very close yeah. They picked Knives out easier
for us because we just did a wake up That man conversation.
So yeah, Uncle gems would have been good too.
You just watched it for the first time.
I did a few nights ago, which I guess we should have mentioned
but like. I mean, I talked a lot.
About you liked it? I liked it, yeah.
But we'll do some Knives Out conversation there.
And then we have Titanic, which I've only seen now two or three
times. Yeah, and I've seen like 3
times, maybe 50. So that'll be a a Kelsey episode
basically, and on the main feed, I think that's about it until we
get into the new year. So we'll be back soon.
Peace out y'all, bye.