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Hello, welcome to the extra 
credits of NIA Decosta's 28 

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Years Later, The Bone Temple. 
I'm Trey and I'm Kelsey. 

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So we just saw this movie at a 
sold out early screening. 

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We have a week or so until the 
embargo drops. 

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This is a very recent reaction 
because we like, literally just 

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saw this movie and we can't 
release this episode for, you 

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know, until that embargo drops, 
which I have no idea why they're

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doing another, you know, close 
to release date embargo for 

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critics to not drop their 
thoughts. 

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Yeah, it really doesn't make any
sense to me. 

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This isn't like a normal 
marketing tool that studios are 

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using for whatever reason. 
Sony did this with the 1st 28 

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years later and now they're 
doing it again with the part 

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Part 2. 
Yeah, it's a strange decision to

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me because I think, you know, 
the the marketing for the first 

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part of 28 years later was 
really great. 

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Like the trailer was one of the 
best trailers I've seen in a 

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really long time, using kind of 
like a speech and making it this

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weird, like musical, eerie 
backdrop to a lot of the images 

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that we're seeing and really 
focusing. 

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The World War poem, The 
backdrop. 

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Yeah. 
And really focusing on like Ray 

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Fines, right, And kind of 
misdirecting us with who the, 

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the, you know, movie's going to 
focus on. 

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But here it just really doesn't 
make sense to me because I feel 

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like a lot of people don't know 
that Part 2 is coming out. 

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Yeah, I actually don't think 
I've seen a trailer for this 

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film and maybe people have, I 
don't know. 

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I haven't seen it really in 
theaters. 

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We went to the Avatar movie 
recently and it wasn't playing 

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there. 
And it's kind of a big deal 

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considering this is like a 50 
million plus dollar movie that 

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nobody seems to know anything 
about. 

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I think they might be hoping, 
and you said this when we walked

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out, that audiences who love the
first 28 years later will just 

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return to watch this one. 
Yeah, I think that's. 

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Keeping tabs on it, yeah. 
I think it's probably true, but 

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I did reach out to a few friends
and they didn't even know, you 

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know, the movie was coming out. 
You were like horror fans. 

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Yeah, next week. 
And who loved the first film in 

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the franchise. 
So if you're listening to this 

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and you have not seen this 
movie, go see this movie 

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immediately in theaters in the 
most packed crowd you can go to.

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I would literally look at the 
times and see if the crowds are 

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packed. 
And I would go and take a bad 

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seat versus a lesser packed, you
know, crowd where you have a 

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better seat just because this 
movie is like a concert. 

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And you have to experience it as
such to get the full total 

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package that Dacosta and Garland
and the rest of this crew cooked

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up here because this is quite a 
film. 

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Yeah. 
Kelsey, you walked out of this 

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movie and you said if this had 
come out in 2025, because we saw

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this just a few days into the. 
New year, I know, it's so weird 

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that it also the Part 1 and Part
2 are so close together. 

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You said if it came out in 2025 
that it might have been your 

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favorite movie of the year. 
Yeah, I think I walked out and I

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said that was my favorite movie 
of 2025. 

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Yeah, which is a pretty awesome 
statement. 

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Yeah, I mean. 
Why, why did you give that 

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statement to me? 
Because I was kind of shocked. 

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I was like, there's some great 
movies from 2025 and our top 10 

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or top 15. 
So. 

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But I understand, I think why 
you said. 

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That I think like when we get 
towards, you know, this is 

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obviously a 2026 film, but when 
we do our 2025 ranking episode, 

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which we usually do like towards
the Oscars because that's when 

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the all the movies are kind of 
being talked about. 

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I might like re evaluate that 
statement or might have re 

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evaluated that statement with 
something like 1 battle after 

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another or whatever. 
But I think like in terms of not

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thinking, you know, there's two 
ways to think about it. 

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Like, Oh, here's the objectively
best list in terms of like 

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filmmaking and like, or, you 
know, think about Yokim Trier's 

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like sentimental value that 
really like resonated with me as

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a movie and I thought was 
beautiful. 

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And I just like, love his 
filmography in general. 

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But in terms of like, like, you 
know, I was joking about 28 

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years later Part 2 being my 
favorite movie even in spite of 

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those like if it were to come 
out in 2025. 

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Talk your shit. 
You don't have to concede. 

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That's so much concession just 
to be like. 

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I'm just telling people it's. 
The most entertaining experience

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you've had. 
Or something fucking rock. 

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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 
Let's talk about it. 

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It's so good. 
Like it is like just the the 

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weird energy that I think is 
made for me. 

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Like it is totally up my alley 
in terms of the concepts I'm 

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interested in. 
It's wild because you know, long

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time listeners know I don't even
like zombie movies. 

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They're my least favorite genre 
or sub genre of the horror. 

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You know, broader like 
landscape. 

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You don't like monster movies? 
I don't like, Yeah. 

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I don't like feature features 
Any. 

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Yeah, Like, it's just not for 
me. 

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Although I like the metaphors, 
like, I like thinking about 

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them. 
I just don't like watching them 

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as much. 
But this is amazing. 

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It brings up like everything 
that I think monster movies or 

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zombie movies do really well, 
like dystopian things of what 

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would you turn to, right, Which 
reflects what do we turn to even

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when we're not in a, you know, 
dystopia that looks like the one

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on screen. 
It looks at Dogma, Jimmy. 

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Jimmy. 
Jimmy and the Jimmy's. 

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And the fingers. 
Are we getting into spoilers? 

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We can say spoiler warning ahead
again. 

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I want to re emphasize then if 
we're you know as my the last 

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non spoiler thoughts that ray 
finds is giving one of the best 

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performances of his career. 
Yes, Jack O'Connell is giving 

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one of the best performances, I 
think in the recent, my recent 

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memory of villain performances. 
It's better than his performance

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that he did in Sinners Sinners 
and equally kind of like 

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ambitious genre tonal smash as a
movie to compare the Bone Temple

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to, I think. 
But Jack O'Connell, this is also

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one of his best performances, if
not his best that I've ever 

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seen. 
And this is just like one of the

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wildest tonal swings I've ever 
experienced in a movie theater. 

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Going to your point of why I 
think I agree with you. 

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This might be one of the best 
movies I've seen in years. 

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It is both the most horrifying 
movie and upsetting movie I've 

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seen in years. 
And it's also maybe the funniest

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movie I've seen in years. 
Yes. 

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Yeah, and I feel like it was 
like organic comedy, like it 

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really came out of the 
situations. 

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This is not a spoiler yet, but 
you know, this movie really 

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focuses on Jack O'Connell, which
I think you know, is something 

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that people could I kind of 
figure out from the ending of 28

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Years Later, Part 1 where we 
meet him and meet the Jimmies, 

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which is what Danny Boyle was 
calling them. 

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We called them on our our first 
podcast. 

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So when like Spike is meeting 
them right, you you just really 

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have no idea where it's going to
go besides maybe some 

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foreshadowing of Teletubby lore 
that we really went into and 

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took seriously on the first 
podcast because we are the 

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Teletubby generation and Power 
Rangers generation. 

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And it really paid off in in 
this movie in particular. 

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And I can't wait to talk about 
just basically like what the 

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jimmies are up to Spikes 
relationship to them. 

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But yeah, before we go into 
spoilers, like Ray Fiennes, the 

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the quiet, like comedy and 
warmth that he is able to bring 

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to his roles, like, even if you 
think of Voldemort like, like 

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not, I mean, not that Voldemort 
is warm, but like there is a a 

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coolness right about him and 
unbotheredness that he's able to

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to capture. 
And it just adds like so much to

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this movie. 
And I love how he's kind of like

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marketed in the first one. 
You thought it was going to be 

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like this horror. 
He was going to be this like 

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menacing figure, possibly like 
you said, like a villain and. 

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They subvert that even more 
here. 

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Yes, exactly, and it and it's 
just like the way that they use 

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him and play against what he is 
capable of, but still like 

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incorporate that it the movie 
sings. 

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Yes, it is amazing. 
All right. 

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So to end the non spoiler 
thoughts, because I know some 

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people are going to be like, I 
don't I feel like this is 

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getting overly hyped for me 
right now. 

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I think our show doesn't. 
If I can say I think our show 

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does a great job not being 
hyperbolic about new releases. 

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That's true. 
We really try not to be like 

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this is a 5 star instinct 
classic. 

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We really stay away from 
clickbait reactionary takes 

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unless something really hits 
that's very like extra credit 

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score. 
And I do think the 28 years 

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movies are very extra credit 
score, which is like what Kelsa 

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saying that these movies are 
just speaking to us and our 

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sensibilities and our sense of 
like a little bit of our 

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politics and our humor at the 
same time. 

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And so they just kind of feel 
like we also made them. 

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So you know, when the movie is 
that I'm sure listeners know 

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when a movie is so special to 
you and your subjective 

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experience with it, it makes you
feel like you were in the 

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writers room a little bit. 
And that's what these movies 

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make me feel like. 
And I I fucking love everything 

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about this franchise. 
So again, I am biased. 

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It is like a strange, cynical 
franchise, but also these new 

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movies, these years later 
movies, and I think the original

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28 Days Later movie as well. 
The reason why they resonate is 

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because they're also so warm. 
They care about people so much. 

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They care about younger 
generations learning from older 

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generations and good and in bad 
ways, and the myth making and 

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storytelling the older 
generations tell themselves and 

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younger ones to justify 
decisions that they're making in

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the present. 
And these movies are so much 

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about that, kind of like 
generational anxiety. 

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That is a timeless idea in the 
middle of a dystopia world, 

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going back to Kelsey's point, 
where you're kind of like 

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sitting in these dilemmas of 
what would you do when the world

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ends? 
Does society, you know, isolate 

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itself? 
And if it does, who will you try

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to save or who will you try to 
hurt? 

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And like, I think those are, 
again, timeless ideas that 

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continue to resonate as the 
world gets more and more 

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fractured, so. 
Yeah, I mean dystopian like 

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franchises or just like projects
in general are really interested

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in self preservation and they 
usually have really interesting 

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themes, but like often still 
have to operate within a broader

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pop culture scale. 
When you think about like the 

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most famous zombie projects for 
general audiences, like The 

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Walking Dead, for example, which
I did not watch in fall so I 

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won't speak on. 
But I do think it's interesting 

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that, like, most people who have
a relationship to zombie movies 

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would think of The Walking Dead 
as the first time that comes to 

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mind and like, their recent 
memory. 

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And I love how, like 28 years 
later Part 1 takes like a Rick 

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figure and is like, is like, 
yeah, Rick's amazing, but let's 

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like flip this of what Carl 
would think of Rick, you know, 

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like in a different context. 
That's Aaron Taylor. 

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Aaron Taylor Johnson and the 
Spike character. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
And I feel like Aaron Taylor 

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Johnson's playing an interesting
mix of Shane and Rick in one 

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character. 
Yeah. 

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Anyways, yeah. 
So again, last thoughts. 

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I felt like this was an 
instantly iconic genre film. 

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NIA Dacosta shout out you, you 
made something that's. 

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Your credit upfront. 
You made a horror movie that 

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blends comedy and horror to the 
degree that I've only seen like 

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3 or 4 film makers do, which is 
basically Jordan Peele, Ryan 

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Coogler, Rose Glass and Zach 
Kreger. 

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Like there are only a few film 
makers in the last decade and 

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I'm probably forgetting one or 
two who are able to create 

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something that is like on one 
hand, this insane gory horror 

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home invasion narrative that is 
also then mixing into this like 

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British folk satanic fairy tale 
atmosphere that's also then 

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mixing in this kind of 
melancholic, absurdist, bizarre 

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humor. 
It is just like it's a huge 

225
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,320
compliment. 
And extra credits I want to give

226
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,320
even in the non spoiler section 
to NIA Dacosta and working with 

227
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,440
Alex Garland to make a movie 
like this, a sequel like this to

228
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,280
take IP in this direction, which
is like really what we need 

229
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,160
right now as studios are are 
crumbling the green light unique

230
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,920
projects. 
Yeah, and I think it is. 

231
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,800
It's like, I've only seen it 
once, but it's one of my 

232
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,160
favorite horror movies of all 
time. 

233
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,320
Like. 
Damn, we're really hyping this 

234
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,120
shit up. 
Let's go stamp. 

235
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,240
It it is. 
It's like don't go into it. 

236
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,840
Like, first of all, don't look 
up any spoilers because you 

237
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,360
really want to let the movie 
unfold. 

238
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,760
But also just like, it's not 
like, I don't know when people 

239
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,720
say that, oh, this is one of the
best, you know, movies of all 

240
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,920
time in whatever genre. 
Sometimes I'll go in like having

241
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,360
higher expectations, just like 
let the movie wash over for you.

242
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,280
It starts a little slow and 
really picks up. 

243
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,920
And don't expect the same vibe 
or tone from the first movie. 

244
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,360
Exactly, Yeah. 
Yeah, it's very different. 

245
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:45,600
Yeah, and and, but anyway, so 
yeah, the hype for me at least, 

246
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,520
is warranted. 
I don't know if all audiences 

247
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,520
will love this exact tone, but 
like we said, our theater was 

248
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,240
like, I think a concert it. 
It's funny that you said that. 

249
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,800
It really felt like that. 
I wonder if and the last time I 

250
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,560
felt like that in a horror movie
was Barbarian. 

251
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,240
Interesting, I was going to say 
Jordan peels us because I think 

252
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,360
this movie is to me is probably 
better than Barbarian and 

253
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,200
Weapons. 
I think so too, but I was 

254
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,400
talking about like the the most 
recent theatre experience that 

255
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,720
felt I see similar. 
But I do think you're right, US 

256
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,960
is like more comparable. 
You're right, Barbarian Theatre 

257
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,560
experience was very similar. 
We we knew nothing going in, 

258
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,000
leaving. 
Everybody was like on their 

259
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,880
phone during the crowd or during
the movie. 

260
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,280
Everybody was like shouting, 
gasping. 

261
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,760
It was laughing. 
It was awesome. 

262
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,360
OK, so we're going to get into 
spoilers. 

263
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,080
This is going to be a deep dive 
reaction episode. 

264
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,320
So if you see the movie, stay. 
If you haven't, please go watch 

265
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,720
it. 
So I fully expected 28 Years 

266
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,080
Later Part 2 to be a direct 
continuation of Spikes coming of

267
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,000
age story. 
Same. 

268
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,200
OK, that's all I'm going to ask.
You, I thought we were going to 

269
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,680
go back to the island. 
We're going to have a lot of 

270
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:58,160
Aaron Taylor Johnson conflict. 
Like somehow we're getting back 

271
00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:59,240
there. 
Not at all. 

272
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,200
Yeah, that's interesting because
we loved Spike in that 

273
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,400
performance from Alfie Williams.
I yeah, I mean, it's not that 

274
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:06,360
well, I wouldn't say like I was 
disappointed. 

275
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,280
I was surprised we didn't get as
much Alfie and Spike, but I 

276
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,960
loved Ray finds his character 
even more than Spike and I felt 

277
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,120
like we got so much Spike last 
movie that I was just like a 

278
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,400
pleasant surprise and I 
respected the total like sharp 

279
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,080
right turn. 
Yeah, Well, you said come when I

280
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,640
was asking you questions about 
it this morning, you were like, 

281
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,960
I just loved how that movie was 
like a side quest. 

282
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,080
It was a short story set inside 
this Garland universe. 

283
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,160
And you like that Dacosta took 
in that direction. 

284
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,840
And I think that's the best way 
to frame it because there's it's

285
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,320
kind of a it's kind of a tight 
story. 

286
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,960
There's really only two plots 
that are running kind of 

287
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:46,800
seamlessly and simultaneously 
together. 

288
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,200
The first major plot is the more
familiar one because it's with 

289
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:55,000
Ray Fines, who we met last movie
as Dr. Ian Kelson and his 

290
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,760
relationship to Samson, played 
by Chi Lewis Perry, I believe is

291
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,680
his name. 
I've never seen this actor act 

292
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,440
in a movie before outside of 
Part 1. 

293
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,680
Obviously he is excellent in 
this film and what he's asked to

294
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:11,320
do, going from an infected to a 
sort of hybrid non infected 

295
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,200
slash human. 
And that's probably the biggest 

296
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,640
spoiler of this film outside of 
Jim being at the end of the 

297
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,440
movie, which we'll get to. 
Samson is just to remind people,

298
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,120
is the physically imposing alpha
from the first movie. 

299
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,320
The Attack on Titan style 
zombie. 

300
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,840
Yes, we got some great, you 
know, action set pieces with 

301
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,840
Samson as he you know, I think 
he I think he was not the same. 

302
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,680
I think it was a different 
infected, but the alpha who runs

303
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,680
across the land bridge over the 
water. 

304
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,720
And it feels like we're watching
Aaron Taylor Johnson and Alfie 

305
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,080
Williams run through the cosmos 
together, which is just an 

306
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,120
incredibly shot scene in great 
cinematography and great visual 

307
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,360
effects. 
That was awesome. 

308
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,680
We don't really get a lot of set
pieces with this alpha with 

309
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,680
Samson. 
Instead, Samson and Dr. Ian 

310
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,880
Kelson are basically hanging out
as like a buddy. 

311
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:07,000
Melancholic comedy, romantic 
comedy, almost intimate comedy, 

312
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,560
I guess. 
It's a friendship. 

313
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,400
It's a friendship movie in some 
ways, and their relationship is 

314
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,600
multifaceted. 
It's strange, kind of warm. 

315
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,960
I think it's a lot of the film's
ethical core is about basically 

316
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,280
the storyline asking us whether 
a fractured society even 

317
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,080
deserves to be saved and whether
the infected or our concept of 

318
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,280
what the infected is to us are 
truly the monsters that we tell 

319
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,280
ourselves that they are. 
Or if they are victims operating

320
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,280
under this like fundamental, 
like kind of fundamental 

321
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,840
misconception about what we 
think they are where the rage 

322
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,120
virus is. 
So I liked how the movie is 

323
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,880
asking an audience, especially a
a very connected audience, to 

324
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,440
the cult classic that is 28 Days
Later. 

325
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,040
Have you just been like 
mischaracterizing the infected 

326
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,560
for 25 years? 
Which I think is a fun question.

327
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,800
Yeah, especially when you think 
about the people who are 

328
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,240
positioned in this world who are
like the villains of the 28 

329
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,880
Years Later franchise, Yes. 
And we learned that Ian's job 

330
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,800
that he's given himself over the
last 25 years during this, you 

331
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,599
know, post apocalyptic society 
is that he's basically dedicated

332
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,359
to being the secular scientist, 
right? 

333
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,880
And from what? 
And I'm trying to gather my 

334
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,480
thoughts in this movie, and so I
apologize. 

335
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,480
So I'm kind of like stating 
things, but also framing them as

336
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,520
a question to Kelsey because I'm
I'm trying to figure it out for 

337
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,560
myself. 
But basically, from what I could

338
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,640
tell, he's trying to 
demythologize the zombie world 

339
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,720
to make it feel like it's less 
of a religious apocalypse and 

340
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,600
more coming back to this 
question of like, is there just 

341
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,960
this fog over the brain? 
I think as he puts it. 

342
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,640
And maybe has, you know, this 
fog become like a a 

343
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,680
psychological issue and maybe 
these zombies have not been 

344
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,160
completely consumed by this, 
this fog. 

345
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,240
And I think the movie is trying 
to introduce an idea that the 

346
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,320
infected might basically be just
seeing humans as the real 

347
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:04,600
infected. 
Yeah. 

348
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,000
Does that sound about right? 
That's. 

349
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,640
Kind of like a moment where like
Kelson talks to Samson and it's 

350
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,360
like, I, I feel like, you know, 
everyone is afraid of you. 

351
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:21,560
But like I, I'm not sure why the
infected are killing children in

352
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,680
particular, right? 
Like there's no reason or, or 

353
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,720
motivation, I guess, to, to kill
something that doesn't like 

354
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,760
present a threat. 
And so we get that image of 

355
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,120
Samson early on in the, I think 
it's like one of the opening 

356
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,200
scenes, right, of him seeing 
this guy in the woods, who I 

357
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,480
thought was Aaron, Aaron Taylor 
Johnson. 

358
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,640
Oh yeah, that small scene, the 
guy with the beard and the long 

359
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,560
hair. 
Which I think they did on 

360
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,400
purpose like. 
I agree, I did think that was 

361
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,480
him as. 
Well, I thought he was looking 

362
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,000
for Spike in the woods. 
Good jump scare. 

363
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,960
Yeah, yeah. 
But so we see right what the 

364
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,160
infected are looking at when 
they're like killing someone, 

365
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,960
which is that that face, which 
is essentially the infected. 

366
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,560
Do you, do you remember when 
killing Murphy gets the spray 

367
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,360
used on him and the Batman 
Begins movie and he looks at 

368
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,280
Batman and the Batman's face is 
all mutated? 

369
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,320
That's what it reminded me of. 
Yeah. 

370
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:10,520
Yeah. 
I don't know if that's just 

371
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,400
because I knew killing Murphy 
might pop up in this, but I 

372
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,360
thought about that visual 
effect. 

373
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,800
So yeah, we get a lot of Ray 
finds and Samson, like holding 

374
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,200
hands, wandering through the 
meadows together feels a little 

375
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,760
bit like Pride and Prejudice 
meets Attack of the Clones, like

376
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,360
them just hanging out in the 
sunlight on drugs, which was 

377
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,080
fucking awesome. 
And we'll get to all those 

378
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,200
hilarious sequences. 
That's the that's I think the 

379
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,880
center plot. 
That's the most familiar because

380
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,240
we know Ray finds character at 
least. 

381
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,680
The second plot, which becomes 
kind of the major story, is 

382
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,280
about Sir Jimmy Crystal, played 
by Jack O'Connell and his other 

383
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,960
jimmies called the Fingers. 
Who are this Colt Warrior? 

384
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,040
Satanist. 
Satanist Power Power Rangers 

385
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:57,240
coded like Teletubbies coded 
Clockwork Orange serial killers.

386
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:58,880
Exactly. 
And yeah, exactly. 

387
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,920
Is it a very easy to define 
group of crazies And here? 

388
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,280
In this movie, you know, they 
become the driving force of the 

389
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,360
entire story because they are 
the sadistic people who have 

390
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:15,920
created this circus of violent 
killers who are just 

391
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,560
mythologizing themselves in pop 
cultural references. 

392
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,760
And I think there's something 
there thematically that I'm 

393
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,760
going to try to unravel with you
on this episode. 

394
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,480
But they are killing both the 
infected and the non infected 

395
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,160
with an an ease and and a sort 
of joy and kind of enjoying the 

396
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,280
role as these these killers and 
Spike is trapped amongst them. 

397
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,680
And we start the movie with him 
and we'll get to that that plot 

398
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,800
point in a second. 
And he watches the jimmies 

399
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,600
throughout the movie as they 
kind of like do this religious 

400
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,360
recruitment evangelical but for 
Satan machine thing where they 

401
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,520
are basically. 
Creating out jimmies. 

402
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,560
Creating suffering for other 
people and treating out jimmies 

403
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,040
possibly along the way. 
And so instead of helping the 

404
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,440
people at the end of the world, 
they're actually trying to make 

405
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,040
it worse to punish it as I think
a way to get a sort of revenge 

406
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,520
against the the infection 
itself. 

407
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,320
That's how I kind of read it, 
which is an interesting way to, 

408
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,440
I think, frame it. 
Yeah, I felt like they were more

409
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:22,080
so like desensitized, like adult
children kind of growing up in 

410
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,680
this particular environment 
where violence is like this 

411
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,920
norm. 
And they don't really like, like

412
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,120
the world is kind of like 
gamified in a really twisted way

413
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,880
to them. 
But yeah, we'll we'll definitely

414
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,840
talk more about the Jimmies. 
Yeah, I I think the movie, The 

415
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,800
movie is having a conversation 
with itself. 

416
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,240
We keep repeating this, but I 
think it's important to come 

417
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,360
back to about how people respond
to the end of the world. 

418
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,160
Either they try to blame it and 
punish it and mythologize it by 

419
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,080
ritualizing whatever the choices
are and trying to create 

420
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,400
traditions out of them. 
And these jimmies are like, 

421
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,240
we're creating horror as revenge
for our loss of innocence. 

422
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,280
And we will live in that past 
life of innocence rude these pop

423
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,320
cultural references, but we will
not let anybody else live a life

424
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,320
of innocence as a result. 
And I think that's what Jimmy 

425
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,160
Crystal represents. 
On the other hand, we have Ian 

426
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,880
Kelson, who's like, I'm going to
self medicate, dance with the 

427
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,280
zombies, listen to Duran Duran 
in my bunker at the night time 

428
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,160
and try to read books on the 
ethics of medicine. 

429
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,560
Because I still think even 
though this world doesn't feel 

430
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,760
like it deserves to be saved, I 
want to save it. 

431
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:26,240
I think that is what the movie 
is contending with, which speaks

432
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,360
to the larger themes of the last
film about isolationism and 

433
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,440
nationalism and and, you know, 
suggestions or implications of 

434
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,600
the world of being a metaphor 
for like Brexit, at least we're 

435
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,120
we're on the island and what 
that might symbolize. 

436
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,480
So those are basically the 
stories that are running 

437
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,320
parallel with one another. 
Yeah, there's not a lot, right, 

438
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,200
Like when you just like that's 
it talk about like what the plot

439
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,640
is doing. 
But it's so fun and how it 

440
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,600
really like we get to spend so 
much time with the characters in

441
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,320
a lot of like non zombie heavy 
moments. 

442
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,080
Like it subverts our idea of of 
what the zombie movie is going 

443
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,160
to be. 
Where do you want to start 

444
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,400
first? 
Where did you like? 

445
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,480
Which store did you like being 
in the most? 

446
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,440
Like we start the movie off with
the jimmies in the sort of kind 

447
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,360
of ceremony like scene of 
introducing Spike into the group

448
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,960
or having him fight one of the 
jimmies. 

449
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,800
I mean, I it's hard because I 
enjoyed being with the Ray finds

450
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,120
part of the story more because I
love Ray finds but and I find 

451
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,360
him like so warmly funny here. 
But I think the Jimmies, I was 

452
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,120
like, always wanting to go back 
to them. 

453
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,720
And I think the movie is aware 
of that and uses both storylines

454
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,960
to like, add, like, suspense to,
OK, we're going to come back to 

455
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,160
this. 
And the Jimmies were, like, 

456
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,480
always a shocking new 
introduction of the way that 

457
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,440
they structure their lives or 
Sir Jimmy Crystal is structuring

458
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,480
their lives. 
And so I think I was like always

459
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,320
kind of like what is happening 
with the Jimmies. 

460
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,200
And I guess there's two 
mysteries too, because you're 

461
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,760
like, how much do the jimmies 
actually believe in their own 

462
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,440
self mythologizing and their 
rituals? 

463
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,080
And also, how much do we believe
that Samson is going to be able 

464
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,000
to become, you know, a hybrid 
human zombie that Dr. Ian Kelson

465
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,560
is trying to turn him into? 
So I guess you're you're 

466
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,920
thinking about those questions 
while just enjoying the stories 

467
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,600
as they are. 
And you're also wondering, how 

468
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,320
are these two stories going to 
blend together toward the end if

469
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,320
that is what they choose to do? 
Which happens seamlessly and the

470
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,280
most epic concert ever. 
It's amazing. 

471
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,040
I it was probably my favorite 
scene in the movie. 

472
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,280
We'll get there, but I think 
it's interesting. 

473
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,920
Yeah. 
I, I thought that, you know, the

474
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,320
way that we were going with the 
jimmies, we were going to have 

475
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,120
them happen upon the bone 
temple. 

476
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,360
And like, I thought maybe Samson
would save, you know, Doctor Ian

477
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:49,240
Kelson or and then at at some 
point that they would 

478
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,960
essentially try to kill, you 
know, Kelson. 

479
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,600
And that would be the kind of 
like what would be expected of a

480
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,920
horror movie. 
And the way that this operates 

481
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,920
is is so different and amazing. 
I think we should start with the

482
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:08,160
jimmies because they are the the
most interesting weird creation 

483
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,160
of this movie. 
Yeah, a fucked up unique 

484
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,960
creation, certainly that Garland
already put in the end of last 

485
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,040
the end of the last movie. 
Are you sad not to have seen the

486
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,520
same tone from the end of Part 1
where they're introduced as if 

487
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,120
they are the Power Rangers? 
Like because we don't really. 

488
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,560
Get anything else? 
Like that? 

489
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,680
There's nothing as bizarre as 
that in this movie. 

490
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,080
Not in. 
For the jimmies at least, the 

491
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,720
Jimmy's plot. 
Yeah, like they don't have, I 

492
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,040
guess a particular scene where 
we're like they're being framed 

493
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,960
in a pop cultural. 
Like, like we're. 

494
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,840
Watching a live action cartoon 
or something? 

495
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,320
Yeah, but I, I will say that I 
think like just that 

496
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,520
introduction and also like the 
Teletubbies being all that we 

497
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,160
know about them going into this 
movie really was interesting 

498
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,840
because I was like, oh, OK, 
Sarah, Jeremy Crystal really 

499
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,800
took the Teletubbies, you know, 
lore to heart and that he was 

500
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,640
like, I'm going to become that 
sun baby. 

501
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,680
Like, that's me. 
I'm going to decide when they 

502
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,160
wake up. 
Like, I don't actually like, 

503
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,400
remember everything about the 
Teletubbies, but I I know that 

504
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,520
they are living in isolation. 
They have a little, a Little 

505
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,720
Rock they live under New news 
there, the vacuum. 

506
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,360
They have their own Dr. Ian 
Kelson like underground home. 

507
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,960
That's true, they have a bunker.
They have TV's on their bellies.

508
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,920
They do that, show them images 
or videos of kids playing, but 

509
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,600
human beings don't exist in this
Teletubby universe. 

510
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,760
So that suggests that the 
Teletubbies live in this post 

511
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,200
apocalyptic it's true world I 
guess, which could be Earth. 

512
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,240
Or like a utopia. 
Or it's heaven. 

513
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:55,560
It's a heaven like space. 
But but yeah, anyway, I was, I 

514
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,400
think like the the idea of him 
watching that when we're first 

515
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,440
introduced to him and thinking 
that and having a a father who's

516
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,720
also a priest who was welcoming 
the infected as like his 

517
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,680
children. 
He's like, this is the rapture. 

518
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,280
Yeah, we're starting over. 
Yeah. 

519
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,800
So, so that aspect of it and 
then also, you know, the we, we 

520
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,960
got some clues in in this first 
scene that we meet Jimmy in in 

521
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,040
the first movie where which you 
pointed out that he opens the 

522
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,640
door when he's told not to by 
his mother to let the zombies in

523
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,600
to kill all the children and. 
Yeah, which he which we hear him

524
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,960
retell that in a fictional way 
to Dr. Ian Kelson at the end of 

525
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,400
this Part 2 movie where he was 
like my sisters and my mother 

526
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,160
should have hit it like I did in
the church with my father. 

527
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,040
And instead they got killed. 
But really, we know that he let 

528
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,120
the zombies in as a boy that 
killed his siblings as he ran to

529
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,560
the church and tried to save 
himself, which is kind of a 

530
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,160
theme of a through line of these
movies. 

531
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Because if anybody remembers 28 
Weeks later, that movie starts 

532
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,200
off with the the main, the main 
character man father figure 

533
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,520
basically sacrificing his wife 
to get away. 

534
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,720
So these movies comment on like 
a toxic masculinity that's about

535
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,600
self preservation quite often. 
Yeah, and and Jimmy takes that 

536
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,760
to like a further extent even 
then, you know, like sacrificing

537
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,480
your wife in 28 weeks later. 
He's like, I'm going to like 

538
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,360
make sure that I'm OK to the 
point where I'm going to become 

539
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,720
someone's God. 
I'm going to mix what I learned 

540
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,960
from my daddy and mix what I 
isn't what he says. 

541
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,600
He's like, that was going to 
meet my Wait, does he call him 

542
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,240
daddy? 
I don't know. 

543
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:41,480
I like that you called him 
Daddy. 

544
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,200
Anyway, religious daddy and then
he's like, also, I'm going to, 

545
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,800
you know, mix that with what I 
learned from the Teletubbies and

546
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,080
like the sun baby. 
And I love that the the kind of 

547
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,120
like bright sun baby is also 
like just as bright as Jimmy's 

548
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,600
hair. 
I don't think that was like a 

549
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,000
connection Alex Garland 
necessarily made, but maybe 

550
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,120
unconsciously, you know, 
subconsciously that was there 

551
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,240
because he's like, I'm going to 
be what the seven fingers see 

552
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,240
and I'm going to be basically 
manipulating their reality. 

553
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,640
And anyway, it's a really like 
fun, interesting taking. 

554
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,160
Also some like notes from Tinky 
Winky of having like a red 

555
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,320
purse. 
I feel like the tiara is 

556
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,880
adjacent to that that that Jimmy
is wearing. 

557
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,960
So anyway, I just love this 
whole kind of like mishmash of 

558
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,320
like this strange ass, like, you
know, God figure, manipulative 

559
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,960
manipulative figure in what we 
can understand were children who

560
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,280
were traumatized and probably 
also their their parents eaten 

561
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,840
by zombies and turn into zombies
themselves. 

562
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:52,000
And the way that that then comes
into a conversation with like 

563
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,480
belief and, and, and faith, 
almost like when he ends up 

564
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,600
meeting Doctor Kelson. 
Yeah. 

565
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,480
And also the ways in which 
certain text, if taken a 

566
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,400
fundamentalist journey with 
certain text or relationship 

567
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,880
relationship to certain text can
basically turn you into these 

568
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,080
like dogmatic extreme 
individuals. 

569
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,440
And I think that's even in the 
dress or the the costumes. 

570
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,320
Of that's a question, where did 
they get these track suits? 

571
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,480
Like where do they? 
Because it's not like they made 

572
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,560
them. 
They're not like, weirdly put 

573
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,600
together. 
Were they in fashion in 2000 

574
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,680
when the outbreak took place? 
I mean, there were definitely. 

575
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,560
Yeah, like juicy, right? 
Like matching track suits. 

576
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,680
There was a big track suit 
movement around that time. 

577
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,400
So maybe that's true. 
But like, I, I want to see it 

578
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,720
just as they're adding jimmies 
to their kind of Jimmy group. 

579
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,760
You don't know what to call the 
fingers as they're adding 

580
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,720
fingers, right, or replacing 
them. 

581
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,200
Are they also going through 
everyone's home and dressers to 

582
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,240
make sure that they can find 
matching track suits? 

583
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,880
Because like that was, I was 
like, where did they get these? 

584
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,800
Let's talk more about the 
Jimmy's through the story. 

585
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,040
So we open up. 
We open up in the pool, a 

586
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,160
children's pool I think. 
Yeah, it I think it's, I mean, 

587
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,920
you know, Jimmy's coming. 
It's a really fun opening where 

588
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:20,440
we go to this like abandoned 
water indoor water park that it 

589
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,920
says like no children beyond 
this point, right? 

590
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,520
And we're like, OK, Jimmy's 
coming here obviously. 

591
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,760
And and we go over and have this
like really, you know, zoom out 

592
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,240
shot of the deep end and it it 
reminds you of like again, we 

593
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,880
talked about how 28 years later 
Part 1 was surprisingly this 

594
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,960
coming of age story for Spike 
and where we thought it would 

595
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,480
maybe focus on like Aaron Taylor
Johnson or refines more. 

596
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,760
And here like we kind of start 
out there too, right? 

597
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,840
We see Spike being circled by 
all the jimmies in essentially 

598
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,680
like the deep end of the pool. 
Right. 

599
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,080
This is sort of like the evil 
coming of age story. 

600
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,120
It's like an end of innocence 
story. 

601
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Yeah, it's like you're just like
watching a bullying scene. 

602
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Basically, yeah, Spike. 
Spike is in the deep end of the 

603
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,320
pool. 
We have these stunted adults 

604
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,320
dressed up as these. 
I think they're dressed up as a 

605
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,120
a British child predator that I 
don't really know much about 

606
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,800
this kind of like iconic 
cultural figure that they would 

607
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,640
have mapped onto as children 
because I think he ran ATV show 

608
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,560
for kids. 
Yeah. 

609
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,440
So some fucked up subjects. 
About yeah, their figure. 

610
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,120
Yeah, and he's bullying them. 
Yeah, they're, I guess they're 

611
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,480
bullying Spike, these jimmies. 
And Sir Jimmy is sitting in his 

612
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,280
yellow lifeguard, his throne 
like a king, and Spike is going 

613
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,240
to fight to the death with one 
of these jimmies. 

614
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,440
And yeah, the seven fingers are 
just kind of like egging the 

615
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,440
main Jimmy on to fight Spike, 
and then Spike nails one of the 

616
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,600
arteries of the jimmies. 
Yeah, well, at first I like how 

617
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,040
they open this tension wise 
because the the way that we kind

618
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,240
of like have all the jimmies 
like laughing and hearing like 

619
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,800
kind of the hyena laughs that 
feel really strange and make you

620
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400
unsettled like that was adding 
to to your fear for Spike. 

621
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,640
But also you're like, how 
serious is this though? 

622
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,640
Right. 
Like are people going to die? 

623
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,440
I know last movie I did see the 
Jimmy's like power Ranger style,

624
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,880
saw torture the infected and 
like take pleasure out of like 

625
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,640
beating them to death. 
So like I know what they're 

626
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,760
capable of, but I didn't know 
how much danger Spike was in in 

627
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,280
that moment. 
Like, you know, we've seen other

628
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,240
movies where it's like a Jimmy 
figure would be like, OK, like, 

629
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,880
let's stop fighting, right? 
And I like that we get an 

630
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,760
immediate like artery, right, 
cut from Spike, which we know 

631
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,360
that he has survival skills that
he's learned from his father. 

632
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,720
So like he probably knew where 
that artery was. 

633
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,800
That's cool. 
And then the the really kind of 

634
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,840
like gory, just like blood, 
right, shooting out and Jimmy 

635
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,280
being like, we're not going to 
save him. 

636
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,800
Like this is how it works. 
Well, it's also just like a 

637
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,680
common experience with every new
horror film that I think horror 

638
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,200
fans or non horror fans, you 
know, have, which is that how 

639
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:06,840
far is this horror movie going 
to go? 

640
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,840
And when you're seeing a bunch 
of adults like kind of look like

641
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,679
they're about to brutalize this 
child, you're like, how far is 

642
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,760
this going to go? 
And it is a scary question and 

643
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,080
it constantly gives you anxiety.
And so there's something 

644
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,480
inherent to horror films of this
horror films nature of being 

645
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,880
like, we are going to be a 
little bit gory. 

646
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,199
We're going to be a little bit 
transgressive and we're being a 

647
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,000
little weird too. 
So anything's really possible. 

648
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,760
And it's kind of clear to me in 
this moment where we watch this 

649
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,840
guy bleed out and the crew is 
like asking if they can help. 

650
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,199
And Sir Jimmy's like, Nah, this 
is these were the rules. 

651
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,760
And I'm like, well this is weird
fucking. 

652
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,639
Movie. 
Exactly. 

653
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,159
Exactly. 
It's like. 

654
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,120
And then they walk out together 
and you said it was like they're

655
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,159
on a field trip together. 
Exactly, It was like watching 

656
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,480
children, you know, if you've 
ever seen like a a field trip in

657
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,920
the city or something like 2 two
of them were like holding hands,

658
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,960
like skipping and then like 
walking and Jamima has her, you 

659
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,560
know, like butterfly wings on 
and she just like takes a little

660
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,760
detour from the group walking in
a like a single file. 

661
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:14,040
Not Matilda Madeline line where 
she scalps and infected and then

662
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,440
is holding its scalp. 
I thought that's what she was 

663
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,320
doing to. 
The front of the line to to head

664
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,160
Sir Jimmy Crystal. 
And so like that was just it's 

665
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,480
just so weird. 
Like it reminds me of like it. 

666
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,000
It really merged genres of what 
we're going to talk about in a 

667
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,880
second. 
The home invasion, you know, 

668
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,840
genre or subgenre with this, 
this kind of like folk horror, 

669
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,640
like a Wicker Man situation. 
So Spike takes the wig that's 

670
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,440
thrown at him, he becomes a 
Jimmy. 

671
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,720
He's initiated. 
And again, I walked into this 

672
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,560
movie thinking it was going to 
be Spike's film or continuation 

673
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,800
of his coming of age journey. 
But it's really not because we 

674
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,040
immediately jumped to Dr. Ian 
Kelson and his of the second 

675
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,520
story of this movie, The other 
subplot, and we start right 

676
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,280
where we left off in the 1st, 28
years later, I think, where he's

677
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,680
dragging the pregnant woman's 
body off of the train and he's 

678
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,800
singing to himself, I think. 
Girls on film. 

679
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,000
Yeah, which I you pointed this 
out. 

680
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,080
You're like, he's singing girls 
on film. 

681
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,560
And like, I love that they 
played it later in the bunker so

682
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,440
everyone could, like, get the 
joke for those of us who like 

683
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,720
didn't immediately recognize it.
But I I loved that scene. 

684
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,800
And Samson hears him singing, we
see Ian clock him and basically 

685
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,120
starts testing the boundaries of
how physically close they can 

686
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,280
get to one another. 
And he sedates him with the 

687
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,200
tranquilizer, which will come 
back as a way that he medicate 

688
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,480
Samson and himself throughout 
the next hour and a half of this

689
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,880
movie. 
And you're watching this like, 

690
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,240
OK, I get the moral center of 
this film, which is that we have

691
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,000
Jimmy and we have the anti 
Jimmy, which is Dr. Ian. 

692
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,000
And we see that when we go back 
to Doctor Ian Kelson's bunker 

693
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,360
that he has all these books that
he's been working on and 

694
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,400
reading. 
I love the small detail of his 

695
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,080
like iodine staining all the the
pages that he's like been 

696
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,320
pouring over during his time. 
I guess just alone. 

697
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,840
Yes, and we get to basically see
him in his isolation, which is 

698
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,600
like really depressing. 
He's just sitting there naked on

699
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,840
his bed listening to music 
quietly and just has books all 

700
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,840
around him and is just lonely, 
but he is dedicating his life to

701
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:30,600
this disease, or virus rather. 
And then we cut to the farm, 

702
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,760
which is the farm is the most 
brutal sequence of this movie. 

703
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,440
It is basically this little 
self-sustaining family unit out 

704
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,320
in the woods. 
And we basically are following 

705
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,320
this group of three that turns 
into a group of two as they 

706
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,080
return home. 
And as those two walk in, 

707
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,640
everybody seems kind of shocked.
I think they say that we have 

708
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,480
visitors and the Jimmies are at 
the table serving the people, or

709
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,280
at least the people in the house
are serving the jimmies. 

710
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,120
This goes to, I think, the point
you were making about the home 

711
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,280
invasion stuff, where it feels 
like the strangers, it feels 

712
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,560
like Funny Games. 
It feels like Jimmy the main 

713
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,360
Jimmy Jack O'Connell, at the end
of every sentence, he might slit

714
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,640
someone's throat. 
So you're just constantly tense,

715
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,000
and O'connell's just nailing 
this. 

716
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,760
Sort of like Keith Ledger as 
Joker, but in a rated R horror 

717
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,720
gore movie where you're just 
unclear of the stakes of the 

718
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,840
situation. 
And basically they try to get to

719
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,760
know the people that they're 
about to murder, and they're 

720
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,040
like, have you guys seen the 
Teletubbies? 

721
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,880
You're missing out. 
They have like specific 

722
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,440
Teletubby episodes that they're 
talking about. 

723
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,640
Like this is the last shared 
kind of like cultural moment, 

724
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,280
like the Teletubbies is a text 
to them in more ways than one. 

725
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,880
And they also like, you know, 
have Jamina do that dipsy dance,

726
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,720
which is like they're just, you 
know, Jimmy Crystal is just like

727
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,160
playing with his food here, kind
of, you know, it's. 

728
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,560
That's a good way to frame it, 
yeah. 

729
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,280
He's like, oh, you know, sorry, 
we got off on the wrong foot. 

730
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,840
And he's like, let us introduce 
ourselves. 

731
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,600
And just like everything about 
what they're doing is, is in the

732
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,960
vein of trying to scare the 
people they're about to 

733
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,320
terrorize even more. 
So like, we think that this is 

734
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,840
the extent, right? 
Like I thought that when he 

735
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,560
says, you know, well, we're 
we're going to leave, but not 

736
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,440
until we kill you first. 
And that right then I was like, 

737
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,600
OK, as I'm watching, you know, 
the guy who I'm assuming was the

738
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,800
partner of the pregnant woman. 
Take this like boiling pot of 

739
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,120
water and throw it over Jimmy or
the Jimmies. 

740
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,400
And we see this like struggle 
kind of break out and they're 

741
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,120
they're trying to kill the 
people in the house who are 

742
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,080
living there. 
I just thought, OK, they just 

743
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,560
like kill people, take things 
they need and leave. 

744
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,080
I did not realize we were going 
into like an even more 

745
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,920
terrifying part of this. 
Oh yeah, it gets really bad. 

746
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,040
It's basically the worst thing 
you can imagine. 

747
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,840
Yeah, it is really interesting. 
I think it's going to be part of

748
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,760
my extra credit of this movie 
and it's screen writing here of 

749
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,080
how we have Dr. Ian Kelson and 
we have Jimmy Crystal, who are 

750
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,920
both performing their trauma and
ritualizing their trauma, but in

751
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,760
different perspectives. 
Going back to that point, I 

752
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,360
brought up at the top where Ian 
Kelson is creating like a bone 

753
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,440
temple as this like tradition to
honor those who have passed. 

754
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,040
As to say that when those die, 
it also is a way to kind of give

755
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,520
like basically is a rebirth sort
of. 

756
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:30,120
And he looks at those lives lost
as something to to honor, even 

757
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,560
though he is atheist as 
established in the movie or 

758
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,240
secular. 
And I find that fascinating that

759
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,680
he is like, OK with that 
ritualizing of death. 

760
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,440
And then you, it was just 
beautiful. 

761
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,520
And then you have Jimmy, who is 
like, I'm going to perform as I 

762
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,960
am the devil, the devil's son 
rather, which is just 

763
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,640
fascinating. 
Everyone has to have a purpose, 

764
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,040
you know? 
Well, it's fascinating when 

765
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,920
those two things merge because 
Dr. Ian Kelson becomes the 

766
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,960
bigger person, if you will, the 
real humanist where he's like, 

767
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,000
OK, you're going to do this like
theatre, art or performance 

768
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,480
through your trauma. 
Well, I'm going to outdo your 

769
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,240
own performance and I'm going to
become the devil that you fear. 

770
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:10,320
And I'm going to blow drugs in 
your face and give you the 

771
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,320
worst, you know, trip, but also 
the best concert that you've 

772
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,520
ever had. 
Anyways, I think it's a really 

773
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,200
interesting through line to like
intellectualize for a couple 

774
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,320
hours that I'm sure many 
podcasts will do like ours. 

775
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,760
But yeah, so they're basically 
like, are you going to leave? 

776
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,640
He's like, we'll leave, but 
we're going to kill you first. 

777
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,400
They go out to the barn and they
basically say, I forget the 

778
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,640
language they use, but they're 
like we're going to remove your 

779
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,560
trouser. 
No, we're going to remove your 

780
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,400
SO. 
Basically like this is where we 

781
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,920
get the setup of the seven 
fingers. 

782
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,640
And the charity? 
The the charity right that they 

783
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,920
are spreading their charity to 
the land and Jimmy does this 

784
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,760
kind of like sermon and all the 
Jimmies are sitting in the barn 

785
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,600
wall. 
The three people they capture or

786
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,920
four people they captured are 
tied up and he's like basically,

787
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,600
you know, talking about Saint 
Nick, who in for from a like an 

788
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,440
American lens. 
I thought that this was possibly

789
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,240
like Santa Claus that they were 
worshipping in the vein of the 

790
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:12,560
Teletubby kind of thing. 
I didn't realize immediately 

791
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:17,280
that he was talking about Satan.
And so then the seven fingers he

792
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,320
he kind of sets up and then he 
talks about like the charity 

793
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,040
that we're going to like take 
your shirts. 

794
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,640
And I think we immediately turn 
to each other like, are they 

795
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,520
going to skin them alive? 
Like would they do that? 

796
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,080
That seems like really intense. 
That's it. 

797
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,000
Like this is not where this 
movie feels like it's going. 

798
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,080
And the skinning is mostly off 
screen, they show like 1 flap of

799
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,920
skin being skinned but the post 
skinning was as bad. 

800
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,880
Honestly, as watching the 
skinning, I don't think I've 

801
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,560
ever seen anything quite like 
that. 

802
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,480
And we should say they also put 
on these like purge coated masks

803
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,360
that are very full core coated. 
Yeah, like sewn in teeth and 

804
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,080
shoelaces. 
Yeah, which sort of remind me of

805
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,200
like the hockey Jason Voorhee 
masks of the people on the 

806
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,000
island. 
And 20 years later Part 1 just 

807
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,760
to create a through line of this
kind of tribalism that Garland 

808
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,000
continues to comment on this 
later part of his career as he 

809
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:16,040
moves from his like fatalistic 
interests of this late 

810
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,920
capitalist society that we're in
with Ex Machina and Annihilation

811
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,000
and now with men in civil war 
and warfare. 

812
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,120
And now these screenplays, he's 
like, look at the ways in which 

813
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,320
we create these rituals around 
our for tribes. 

814
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,840
I found out to be a fascinating 
thing to be fascinated by 

815
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,080
because it's not really my 
interest. 

816
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,560
But it's interesting to see 
someone like Garland dedicate 

817
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,520
this large chapter of his life 
to those ideas. 

818
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,040
Definitely. 
So we should say normally we we 

819
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,160
might have said this at the top 
and normally we hate this kind 

820
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,360
of weird, indulgent gore horror.
We don't watch the Terrifier 

821
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,120
movies. 
We don't like the soft films. 

822
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,040
Well, we don't like it when it's
torture porn. 

823
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,360
Focus. 
I should say that, yeah, it's 

824
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,720
not like I'm like, these are 
deeply problematic, problematic 

825
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:54,320
or whatever. 
Like I find them to be kind of 

826
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,880
cringe inducing because yeah, 
they feel almost fetishistic 

827
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,360
about like, the camera being 
obsessed with the ways that 

828
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,880
people are getting killed. 
Like the movie enjoys torturing 

829
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,240
people when movies enjoy 
torturing people. 

830
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,600
I find that to be just off 
putting in any way, especially 

831
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,160
when it comes to like, physical 
harm. 

832
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,880
But for whatever reason, this 
movie did not feel like that. 

833
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,560
It was just very upsetting. 
The sequence was very upsetting 

834
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,360
and brutal and disgusting, but 
it did not feel like the movie 

835
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,240
was not enjoying what it was 
doing to people. 

836
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,920
Right. 
Yeah, It was in focus on their 

837
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,640
torture. 
It was more so focused on the 

838
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,520
lengths that the jimmies would 
go to to I guess fulfill their 

839
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,920
role as a finger like. 
And and I think, you know, in in

840
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,120
the terms of the Alex Garland 
project, which we've talked a 

841
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,720
bunch about on Patreon, we've 
done like deep dives on our 

842
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,360
living plus like paid portion. 
We have a free kind of deep dive

843
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,680
of our Civil War episode. 
I think we spent a long time 

844
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,520
like talking about his project 
on that episode. 

845
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,480
Right. 
Complicated episode. 

846
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,000
Yeah, it is there for free 
members. 

847
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,680
Yeah, available if you want to 
sign up for free. 

848
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,280
But I mean, he continues to come
back to these things even within

849
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:08,000
just the 28th right, Like 
project he in the first movie is

850
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,280
focused on this isolationist, 
like kind of nationalism theme 

851
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,400
with the island and and kind of 
like the justification that they

852
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,960
make in terms of protecting 
themselves and and what they're 

853
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,480
willing to do in order to 
survive. 

854
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,840
But also like the myths that 
they build about themselves and 

855
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,960
like their warriors, right? 
That the kind of like rituals 

856
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:44,160
that are in the vein of like 
self survival, but actually like

857
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,720
have a lot of like violence 
connected to them, right? 

858
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:49,880
If we're looking at this like 
what the island means 

859
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,600
symbolically in the first movie.
And then he's obviously 

860
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,720
interested in this theme as 
well. 

861
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,160
We talked about like the 28 
weeks, but it's more so stronger

862
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,800
and 28 days later where we have 
like the military. 

863
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,520
Right. 
And what they are essentially 

864
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,400
willing to, to put blinders on 
for as well, or, or think that 

865
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,280
they need in order to survive 
and who they're willing to 

866
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,960
follow and who gets outed. 
Like you could imagine, like 

867
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,480
there's the one military figure 
in 28 Days Later that is kind of

868
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,520
like a Kelly figure here, right?
Who is still like following as a

869
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,600
Jimmy because this is survival 
still, you know, join the 

870
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,720
military for some reason, right?
There's some like benefits there

871
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:34,240
that they're grappling with. 
I forgot about that character. 

872
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,560
Right. 
And and so Kelly feels like 

873
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,160
parallel here with that. 
But regardless, like I think 

874
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,800
yes, the the movie is less 
focused on that that torture. 

875
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,280
It's just that the torture is an
example and it's still really 

876
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,520
brutal and and showing it in a 
horror movie and really fucked 

877
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,480
up. 
But it's more so in service of 

878
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,840
like, showing us an exaggerated 
Teletubby version of this dogma 

879
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,240
that, like Garland, continues to
come back to. 

880
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,040
Well said. 
And they also have just like 

881
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,240
good, you know, if you're not 
trying to intellectualize the 

882
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,400
the gore horror of it all and 
you're just trying to wonder how

883
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,680
much these jimmies are actually 
kind of deluded into believing 

884
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,280
that what they're doing is 
actual charity that will allow 

885
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,440
them to live and an eternity. 
And with their devil, they're 

886
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:23,320
saying where Decosta adds this 
layer where you notice and it's 

887
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,240
in the directing where you start
noticing all these scars and 

888
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,240
upside down crosses on the faces
of the jimmies. 

889
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,880
And I think it's suggested that 
all the jimmies are survivors of

890
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,720
charities because they have one 
of the people in the farm not be

891
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,160
skinned and instead witness the 
skinning. 

892
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,400
And then he has to fight or 
choose to fight one of the 

893
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,760
jimmies. 
He picks the the woman on the 

894
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,840
ground who he thinks looks weak 
or innocent because he might be 

895
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,920
able to kill her. 
Turns out she's the. 

896
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,360
Freakiest. 
Wildest one. 

897
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,600
OK, wait, yeah, I want to talk 
about that sequence in a second.

898
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,200
But you're right. 
I'd already put together that 

899
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,240
Jimmy like plot wise is 
replacing other Jimmies. 

900
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,280
And so like that registered for 
me like just from a logical 

901
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:08,600
standpoint, like Oh yeah, like 
he is. 

902
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,560
But I didn't really think about 
how all the fingers that are 

903
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:17,400
currently in the Jimmy Gang are 
like have this like past trauma 

904
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:22,120
of watching whoever their found 
family is receive the charity. 

905
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,160
Like I didn't attach that to 
each of the the Jimmy's 

906
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,720
backstories. 
Yeah, so therefore they have 

907
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:29,440
this toxic dynamic with Jimmy 
himself the main. 

908
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,400
Jimmy yeah, like he let them 
live. 

909
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,640
I I noticed too that he picked 
like the person who seemed the 

910
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,360
youngest and and like strongest 
that. 

911
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,600
No, he he straight up did want 
to build the team. 

912
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,160
He was just like, we're going to
do an Oklahoma drill to figure 

913
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,720
this out. 
OK yeah. 

914
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:47,680
So we meet Kelly, who is a 
little bit. 

915
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,480
There's a they're kind of like 
flickers of humanity in the 

916
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,560
direction of Kelly. 
The actresses Aaron Aaron 

917
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,360
Kellyman, who's pretty good in 
this movie as one of the fingers

918
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,720
who seems like she sympathizes 
with spikes discomfort, though 

919
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:06,960
she sort of believes in the 
mythos of the Satanist and her 

920
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,120
satanic Colt. 
And she kind of recognizes some 

921
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,920
of the bullshit of Jimmy 
Crystal, which she definitely, 

922
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,400
you know, addresses later in the
film. 

923
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,600
At one point in this movie we 
skipped over how she went to go 

924
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,960
see Ray Finds or she was on some
kind of journey to go catch up 

925
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,640
to the pregnant woman, I think. 
Yeah, I think that she is like 

926
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,200
the most trusted Jimmy from 
Jimmy Crystal is like, 'cause he

927
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,920
let her go out on her own. 
Yeah, that was like my, my read.

928
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,800
But because she's I forget 
exactly what she was sent out to

929
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,960
do. 
But I love when she's like, you 

930
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,560
are fucking shitting me. 
Like what am I watching right 

931
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,760
now when she Ray? 
Finds is dancing with. 

932
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,840
Alpha, which I thought that she 
was just like, wow, this is a 

933
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,080
there's a person who's dancing 
with an alpha infected. 

934
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,320
But I didn't realize at this 
point that she was like, that is

935
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:52,960
Satan. 
That's that's the devil with his

936
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,640
demons. 
Yeah, which is hilarious. 

937
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:01,080
So we get to the kind of to 
pivot to the next last, I think 

938
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,560
best stretch of the movie. 
Jimmy is like, OK, we have to go

939
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,080
meet Saint Nick after the barn 
burns down and a few of his 

940
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,880
jimmies are killed. 
I think it's a few of them and 

941
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,560
we see our boy Alfie Williams as
Spike try to escape with a 

942
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,760
pregnant woman. 
She's like fuck you, punches him

943
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,400
in the gut, he comes back, Jimmy
really wants to kill him. 

944
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,120
I didn't like how Alfie, I 
thought Alfie was going to be a 

945
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,000
tad bit stronger in this movie. 
That would be like my 1 nitpick 

946
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,480
with the character because they 
did show us that he survived in 

947
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,480
the forest in the epilogue at 
the end of Part 1 for like 30 

948
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,760
days on his own or 28 days, 
whatever it was. 

949
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,920
And I was like, oh, he's 
becoming quote UN quote, a man, 

950
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,320
right? 
Like he this is his kind of 

951
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:43,960
coming of age journey to become 
an adult. 

952
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,280
And I kind of like that idea. 
But he didn't really have a lot 

953
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,200
of character growth in this film
to me. 

954
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,240
Or like literal just like bad 
ass growth that I thought he'd 

955
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:55,360
be a little bit more of a 
survivor if that makes sense. 

956
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,880
That makes sense. 
I think they positioned him like

957
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,920
that in the first one. 
But I do like that he is just 

958
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,920
kind of like terrified because 
this is actually really strange.

959
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:09,280
Like this is one of the the 
Wilder groups to to be a part 

960
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,280
of. 
And he's just like, how can I 

961
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,360
get out of this? 
And really doesn't know how to 

962
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,240
do it at all, which it is more 
so like, yes, you're right. 

963
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,040
I think just like plot wise in 
terms of the character that we 

964
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,520
are introduced to in the first 
movie, I did expect him to be 

965
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:27,080
have more survival instincts, 
But I like that we go on what 

966
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,880
kind of like what we talked 
about in terms of what we liked 

967
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,760
in part one, that it wasn't this
like really traditional like 

968
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,920
coming of age movie, right? 
It's like this kid doesn't want 

969
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,480
to like he's he's seeing that 
his dad's full of shit, right? 

970
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:48,080
And like lying about how he is 
this like fearless warrior and 

971
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,800
more so gravitates towards his 
mom and and. 

972
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,400
He's sensitive. 
Yeah, and, and he like wants to 

973
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,920
do what's right and, and more so
gravitates towards like Doctor 

974
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,040
Kelson and his warmth and 
kindness and kind of like his 

975
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,200
perspective. 
So I, I feel like I, it's 

976
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,240
believable now that I have the 
whole picture. 

977
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,360
But yes, like I agree. 
Yeah, I guess it makes sense 

978
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,200
because they're trying to make a
point that those who live 

979
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,680
through the actual apocalypse of
the zombie outbreak, the 

980
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:17,000
infection outbreak, they are 
truly like now, survivors for 

981
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,120
life. 
And they're always going to be a

982
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,240
little bit fucked up. 
From Aaron Taylor Johnson being 

983
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,960
a tiny bit fucked up to the 
Jimmies of the world being very 

984
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,960
fucked up to even Doctor Kelson,
who's kind of lost his mind is 

985
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,520
in its own way, even if it's 
more like beautiful way verse 

986
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,680
this new generation who were 
born in a post apocalypse where 

987
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,520
they actually have kind of just 
normalized the craziness around 

988
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,440
them where they actually haven't
lived through too many, I guess 

989
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,280
traumatic events. 
And I guess our character's main

990
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,040
traumatic event is that he went 
to go rescue his mother or, you 

991
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,760
know, take her to a doctor, and 
she was killed. 

992
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:55,120
Yeah, OR, and RSC, you know, I, 
I feel like Eric kind of has 

993
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,040
some like connective threads 
with the Jimmy's. 

994
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,360
You know, he's a little bit more
like desensitized and he's 

995
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,600
willing to kill Spike and his 
mom for picking up the what he 

996
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,200
thinks is like an infected baby.
And we have that whole like that

997
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,840
kind of he he, you know, 
experienced like the Internet 

998
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,240
and he was like, oh, wait, you 
don't know what like online is. 

999
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:17,640
Oh wait, you don't know what 
like Amazon is. 

1000
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,840
He has an apathy or an 
indifference that the movie is 

1001
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,960
trying to posit. 
There's that the jimmies are so 

1002
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,800
fucked up as these like 
fundamentalist cultist. 

1003
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,640
And then the real life people 
outside of the the virus are 

1004
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,080
more fucked up than the actual 
infected themselves, which is 

1005
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,760
like an interesting classic, you
know, zombie trope in these 

1006
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,400
stories where you meet people 
who are survivors and they're a 

1007
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,760
little bit more fucked in the 
fucked up than the actual 

1008
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,960
infected, which is. 
Interesting, which I also think 

1009
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,360
Garland was doing with 
paralleling the pregnant women 

1010
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,720
that we meet because we go from 
seeing the pregnant infected and

1011
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:57,480
then and kind of like Samson's 
relationship to her and how 

1012
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,680
Kelson, like, you know, thinks 
of the infected versus everyone 

1013
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,880
else. 
And then a woman who's in the 

1014
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,440
barn who ends up killing Jemima,
right? 

1015
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,280
She's also pregnant and 
basically that visual, just 

1016
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,520
like, you know, maybe I'm 
reading too much into it. 

1017
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,640
Maybe people are just pregnant 
in this space. 

1018
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,840
But I think it makes sense in 
terms of like paralleling like 

1019
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:23,360
the people in the world who are 
living the jimmies, right with 

1020
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,680
like what they're willing to do 
and the basically they are. 

1021
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,480
You should be more afraid of 
them than like the the infected.

1022
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,360
Which is always a a trope in 
these stories that works for me.

1023
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,000
I think that's always a powerful
metaphor going to the most 

1024
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,040
important scene of the movie. 
This is what I was talking 

1025
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,800
about, the last great kind of 
chapter of this film, when Ian 

1026
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,040
and Jimmy Crystal meet and 
Jimmy's like, are you my dad? 

1027
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:53,760
And Ian's like I am called Ian. 
Well, no. 

1028
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,120
First, he's like Nick, like St. 
Yeah, you Saint Nick. 

1029
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,440
Yeah. 
And and then he's like, no, I'm 

1030
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,440
called, yeah, I'm called Ian. 
And then he's like, wait, can we

1031
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,640
just like back up a second 
'cause like I know Saint Nick is

1032
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,680
like supposed to be tricky, you 
know? 

1033
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,360
Like are you? 
Are you messing with? 

1034
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:09,640
Me. 
Why are you painted red? 

1035
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,880
Yeah. 
And Kelson is like really just 

1036
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,640
welcoming and even though you, 
he is on alert, right? 

1037
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:19,480
Yeah, he's not. 
He's not like, dumb. 

1038
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,280
Or thing. 
Yeah, but he, so he, he's kind 

1039
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,840
of like trying to figure out 
what is going on here and if 

1040
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,080
this person is someone he needs 
to be worried about. 

1041
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,440
And I, I just absolutely think 
that O'connell's performance 

1042
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:37,200
here is like, like one of the 
funniest things I've seen in in 

1043
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,920
so long where he's like, Oh my 
God, I was sweating. 

1044
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,520
Like I thought I was going to 
meet my dad. 

1045
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,000
It's hard to describe because 
he's so sadistic and fucked up, 

1046
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,560
but you're kind of like there's 
this strange aura of charisma 

1047
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,000
around the his physical 
performance, the way he moves. 

1048
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,200
There is just a like 
self-confidence that is hard to 

1049
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,000
deny in the way that O'Connell 
is playing Jimmy Crystal where 

1050
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,800
he literally believes I am the 
son of of a deity or something. 

1051
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,560
But yeah, when he's like, I 
thought I was going to meet my 

1052
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,800
father and he's like, Oh my God,
that was great. 

1053
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,760
And then also the exchange there
where he is like, OK, so you're 

1054
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,960
an atheist, right? 
And then Ray finds is like, Yep,

1055
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,880
I'm an atheist, you're a 
Satanist. 

1056
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,200
And then, oh, God, I was like, 
glad we like figured that one 

1057
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:26,040
out. 
And then when they get to the, 

1058
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,320
the water, they're just like 
sitting there. 

1059
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:33,120
And essentially, you know, 
Doctor Ian Kelson is acting as 

1060
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,880
Jimmy's therapist, which he's 
needed for years now. 

1061
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,800
And I, I love when, when Jimmy's
like, you know, can we cut a 

1062
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,200
deal here? 
Because I like you, and I don't 

1063
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,880
think I've ever liked anyone. 
Yes. 

1064
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,480
I love that one. 
And we Start learning that 

1065
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,360
because you're again, you're 
still wondering at this point in

1066
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,080
the film, how much of Jimmy's 
bullshit does he believe in? 

1067
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,840
Is this is the myth making of 
Saint Nick and the fingers as 

1068
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,280
his apostles? 
Is this like all a coping 

1069
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,360
mechanism? 
Is it a power mechanism? 

1070
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,280
Because people his jimmies are 
dropping right? 

1071
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,720
Like 1 was just killed in the 
forest. 

1072
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,280
Him and Kelly, I think that's 
her name. 

1073
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,640
Get into it a little bit and he 
you could tell. 

1074
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,960
Because, like, yeah, Spike tries
to escape and then Kelly goes to

1075
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:14,320
save him and lies. 
Yeah. 

1076
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:16,640
And you can tell he's worried 
like Jimmy Crystal is, and he's 

1077
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,280
thinking. 
And so that you're wondering, 

1078
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,840
even when he goes to talk to Ian
and they do the therapy thing 

1079
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,200
where he was like, tell me about
your dad. 

1080
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,360
And he's like, no, why don't you
tell me about your dad? 

1081
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,880
And you're thinking, OK, how 
much does Jimmy believe in? 

1082
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,920
And that's when he tells the 
story of, you know, you realize 

1083
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,960
he is still a traumatized kid as
this adult and he's mythologized

1084
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,920
and fictionalized the worst 
moment of his life where he, I 

1085
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,840
think by accident, realized 
subconsciously whatever Mis 

1086
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:44,320
remembers the prologue that we 
watched in the 1st 28 years 

1087
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,640
where he basically led to the 
the death of his siblings, you 

1088
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,720
know, his six sisters or 
whatever it is, or Seven 

1089
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,440
Sisters, his original, I guess 
you know what he thought maybe 

1090
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,560
in his mind, his apostles, his 
Teletubbies. 

1091
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,640
And going back to your point 
about the commentary in these 

1092
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,520
films that's so powerful from 
Garland in the 1st 28 years 

1093
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:08,080
later we see how myth making and
storytelling is inherited from 

1094
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,680
Spike's clan to his family and 
to him, and how storytelling is 

1095
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,560
how that island culture made 
sense of its a dangerous world. 

1096
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,440
And in the Bone Temple, they 
continue it by exploring this 

1097
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:23,320
danger of self mythologizing to 
a violent degree, where the 

1098
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,000
dangers of myths and how 
corruptible they are become very

1099
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,000
real as we see Jimmy inherited 
this myth as a son of a Saint 

1100
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,520
Nick, a son of some kind of like
powerful deity figure as to not 

1101
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,680
reflect on what he did, you 
know, maybe to his siblings or 

1102
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,320
what he let happen rather, or 
what happened to this world and 

1103
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,000
why he continues to try to 
punish it. 

1104
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,080
And it's fascinating because in 
the 1st 28 years later movie, we

1105
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,160
pivot from something in this 
movie we stopped doing. 

1106
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,560
You know, there's a lot less 
experimental cinematography 

1107
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,760
going on in this movie. 
It's a lot more kind of like 

1108
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,880
just regular kind of still 
shots, a lot of good editing 

1109
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:58,080
that is different from the first
movie. 

1110
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,000
But there's not this 
interstitial imagery of like a 

1111
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,400
post war Britain or movies about
the building of the British 

1112
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,120
Empire. 
But we had all that in the first

1113
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,600
film and it really spoke to this
idea of the island being 

1114
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,960
symbolic of an isolationist, you
know, island nation being 

1115
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:20,160
England and the kind of cultish,
cultish obsessions with royalty 

1116
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:24,080
and traditions as we see a a 
painting of of the queen above 

1117
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:25,880
where they eat in the on the 
island. 

1118
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,400
And I imagine that there's going
to be a through line in this 

1119
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,280
trilogy in the third movie where
we get more of the masked people

1120
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,920
in the halls that we saw in 
quick snapshots of in the first 

1121
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:38,960
film. 
And I'm assuming Aaron Taylor 

1122
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,520
Johnson's character and his 
relationship to this island is 

1123
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,320
going to be a symbolic of 
Spike's journey to realizing 

1124
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:50,040
that he just met these crazy 
kooky conservatives and that he 

1125
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:54,680
realizes that, oh, my family are
also kooky conservative like 

1126
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,880
nationalists. 
I think that's going to be the 

1127
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,680
the, the kind of through line of
the, the origins of tribalism 

1128
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,000
and fascism is just him going to
him seeing these ways that 

1129
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,800
people self mythologize as to 
not reflect on their bad 

1130
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,320
behavior. 
I guess I think that'll be so. 

1131
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,360
Yeah, I mean, we have to go back
to meet the baby that was 

1132
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,560
dropped off at the door, Zombie.
Baby, Yeah. 

1133
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,000
But to finish out the the Jimmy 
plot line here, you know, Doctor

1134
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,920
Ian Kelson is asked to play the 
devil so that way Jimmy can keep

1135
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,160
up his Rep with his fingers and 
they can go on spreading 

1136
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:32,680
charity. 
And we have Kelson, you know, 

1137
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,480
essentially, like, agree. 
And then he's like setting up a 

1138
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,640
party, you know? 
That is basically. 

1139
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,920
What it's like lights up on his 
temple. 

1140
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,520
He's got a speaker system. 
Which I absolutely love. 

1141
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,760
You know, when when Jimmy first 
walks into the Bone Temple, he's

1142
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,520
like terrified because it is 
actually a terrifying space and 

1143
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:51,920
and he's like, but like, what's 
up? 

1144
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,640
So OK, you're not Satan, but 
what's up with all this? 

1145
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,960
Like these bones, like you just 
like kill all these people. 

1146
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,400
But regardless, so Ray finds 
understands, you know the 

1147
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:02,960
assignment. 
And by the way, there's a lot of

1148
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,920
great shooting in the 
cinematography were the comedic 

1149
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,680
elements like the zoom outs, the
zoom insurance, like when he's 

1150
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:10,720
like, well, who are all these 
people? 

1151
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,080
And it zooms out to all the 
schools. 

1152
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:13,880
Like there's so many good 
moments like that. 

1153
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,800
Or like when Ian and Samson are 
laying in the the going from 

1154
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,160
like the barn shit to them 
laying in the grass doing drugs.

1155
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,400
Like just really good comedic 
timing in the editing that I 

1156
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,760
want to shout out. 
Yes, I totally agree. 

1157
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:32,760
And then we we have like Jimmy 
Wright, we're preparing his his 

1158
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,200
fingers for the saying, Hey, 
like, you know, I'm the only one

1159
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,560
who can talk to him. 
What's set out these rules. 

1160
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,280
We also have Kelly in this 
moment where we find out that 

1161
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:48,560
she does believe in the Satan 
finger fingers whole thing and 

1162
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,560
she's like, don't you think like
the the drop is? 

1163
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,760
Don't you think, like Jimmy 
Crystal's like, full of shit? 

1164
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,040
Like, let's find out if he's 
actually the son of. 

1165
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:56,280
Right. 
She's like, he's a false 

1166
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,840
prophet, but I still believe in 
the the God, if you will. 

1167
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,480
Yeah. 
And Alfie's like, well, Spike is

1168
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,120
like, fuck yeah. 
Because I think he thought that 

1169
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,320
Kelly understood, you know? 
And then and then he's like, Oh,

1170
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:12,040
no. 
So, So anyway, then we get the 

1171
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:17,160
jimmies all showing up at night 
time in the bone temple all lit 

1172
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,200
up. 
And I love how it kind of, you 

1173
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,800
know, we keep talking about this
as a weird like fucked up coming

1174
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,520
of age journey for Spike. 
I feel like we get like a coming

1175
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,280
of age image where they're in 
this like really unknown palace 

1176
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,160
that's scary and they're lined 
up in like, you know, this 

1177
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,560
horizontal line walking into it 
together. 

1178
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,440
I just like how they're like 
playing with that, that kind of.

1179
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,240
Iconography of normal coming of 
age movies, yeah. 

1180
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:47,160
And then they're going in and 
what happens first? 

1181
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,000
This is my favorite scene of the
whole movie. 

1182
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,640
Well, this is the upside down 
cross in the ground and you the 

1183
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,320
the great part of this sequence 
is the performance from Jack 

1184
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,000
O'Connell. 
It is the absurdity of the set 

1185
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,320
in the theater that Ray finds 
his character. 

1186
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,120
Dr. Ian is set up with all these
lights and all the bones and the

1187
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,520
fire and the speaker system 
that's playing the the rock song

1188
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,520
with the 666 in it. 
But it's also Jack O'Connell 

1189
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:17,080
reacting to just like, how just.
He's like impressed with just 

1190
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,000
like how. 
Much he committed to the bit 

1191
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,960
with, yeah, the commitment to 
the theatricality of what it 

1192
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:27,560
would be to perform this, this 
level of like dogma, I guess. 

1193
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:31,640
And it's just interesting to 
watch O'Connell balance that 

1194
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,160
line between still needing the 
audience still needs to believe 

1195
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,440
that he believes the devil. 
He is the son of the devil, but 

1196
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,440
also believes that Dr. Ian is 
doing a great job in faking 

1197
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,680
everybody else out except him, 
not faking him out. 

1198
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,600
So I think a lot of the comedy 
comes from his reaction and just

1199
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:49,080
Ray finds like doing the whole 
like, I am the devil now. 

1200
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:50,480
And he's dressed up in a leather
jacket. 

1201
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:54,600
I love to look he. 
Black eyes and his black mouth 

1202
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,400
like the black mouth paint. 
He has like a leather jacket on 

1203
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,920
with buckles on it. 
He's like as he's approaching 

1204
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,840
them, he set up a sound system 
that has like surround sound in 

1205
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,760
the bone temple and he's like 
contorting his body crawling 

1206
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,400
towards them. 
And he starts, yeah, he starts 

1207
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,080
singing. 
He's like, it's amazing stage 

1208
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,000
dancing. 
It blows drugs into. 

1209
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,200
The stage jumping, blowing drugs
into their face, they all 

1210
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,840
continue to throw up and then 
immediately proceed to rock out 

1211
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,640
and lose their minds. 
And this is where we get to talk

1212
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,640
about our theater experience. 
It was fucking insane being in 

1213
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:32,120
the theater with a packed crowd 
of like, you could tell 20 to 25

1214
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,640
people, including myself, who 
are a long, you know, time 28 

1215
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:39,400
days heads and you could tell 
there are newer 28 days heads 

1216
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,080
like yourself. 
And then there were just people 

1217
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,000
there to see the movie and early
screening. 

1218
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:47,240
But everybody based on the sound
of the theater, it sounded like 

1219
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:51,240
everybody was like in on the 
laughter, on the gasping, on the

1220
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,120
shouting. 
I think one guy was like let's 

1221
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,400
go or something. 
Like that, yeah, at the end when

1222
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,240
the concert kind of like cuts 
out because it's, it really like

1223
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,040
sweeps you up. 
You're so in it. 

1224
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,400
And then right after the music 
cuts, someone was like. 

1225
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:08,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Everybody was laughing at the 

1226
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,160
end of a song, and I was like 
the communal experience of going

1227
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,880
to a theater and everybody 
collectively enjoying the movie.

1228
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:14,880
Yeah. 
And honestly, that scene might 

1229
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,520
break some people. 
It reminded me of the Sinners 

1230
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,120
sequence of the kind of 
multiple. 

1231
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,640
I don't want to spoil this if 
you haven't seen Sinners, but so

1232
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,400
I guess spoiler alert for that 
movie if you have not seen it. 

1233
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:30,000
So Fast forward 15 seconds, but 
of the the sequence of the 

1234
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,360
multiple generations of music 
being played at once, that is 

1235
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,080
very trippy, kind of surreal 
sequence that is also like 

1236
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:40,720
pretty provocative in terms of 
breaking the film mold in the 

1237
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,880
film language of the movie at 
that point. 

1238
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,600
So this is not like that 
completely because that's far 

1239
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,560
more ambitious thematically and 
and visually and sonically. 

1240
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,520
But this there was an element of
this being sort of breaking that

1241
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:55,160
4th wall and bringing the 
audience into the movie that I 

1242
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,880
felt was like like kind of 
almost equally satisfying where 

1243
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,960
I was like, oh, we get to enjoy 
the greatness of movie making 

1244
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,440
together. 
They're very There aren't many 

1245
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:05,840
movies that allow you to do 
this. 

1246
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,920
Yeah, and I think also like the 
comedy that what it the movie 

1247
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:15,160
just wasn't afraid to go for and
how like Dacosta captured all of

1248
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:19,520
this to make us feel like it was
just like an electric concert 

1249
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,440
performance from this devil. 
And and you're right, like 

1250
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,480
cutting back to Jack O'Connell, 
like being in disbelief that he 

1251
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:30,600
was able to pull this off, but 
also have Ray funds commit so, 

1252
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,840
so much was like amazing. 
But it reminded me of, I was 

1253
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,320
thinking, I think that's a great
comp, but I was thinking of, you

1254
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:43,160
know, how Barbarian like our 
theater reacted to the Jason 

1255
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,320
Long character, which I won't 
spoil Barbarian. 

1256
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,640
I feel like if you're probably 
listening to a 28 years podcast,

1257
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:51,000
you've you've seen Barbarian 
since it came out a little bit 

1258
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:52,800
ago. 
But like that whole comedy that 

1259
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,880
was introduced in the measuring 
scenes to to not give anything 

1260
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:02,600
away like that, that comedy that
breaks the tone, sort of. 

1261
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,560
Of the movie. 
That's what I was like thinking 

1262
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,720
of in, in terms of how our 
theater like just reacted to 

1263
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,600
that. 
Yeah, it also reminded me of 

1264
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,720
Lapita Nuongo at the end of us 
doing the ballet with like her. 

1265
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,080
Again, I don't want to spoil 
another great horror film, but 

1266
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,360
there are there are many moments
in the greatest horror films of 

1267
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:22,520
the last 10 years that have like
postmodern references that then 

1268
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,920
allow you as an audience to like
point at the screen and be like,

1269
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,800
I understand that reference to 
then get to the end of the story

1270
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,120
and now be like totally immersed
into what is happening in this 

1271
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,760
meta experience. 
It's a very unique, like subset 

1272
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,400
of horror films that I've been 
able to capitalize on that and 

1273
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,320
be ambitious and bold enough to 
do that, and thankfully to Costa

1274
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:44,160
does that here. 
I also don't think it's a 

1275
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,440
coincidence that some of the 
greatest horror films with the 

1276
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,760
most kind of stylized like 
provocative and big and 

1277
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,280
ambitious energy are coming from
film makers of color who 

1278
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,440
traditionally have not had 
access to make movies in this 

1279
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,480
industry. 
Where you have Jordan Peele, 

1280
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,640
Ryan Coogler, now NIA Dacosta 
being the the very few black 

1281
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:06,480
film makers who are allowed to 
operate or give given access to 

1282
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,280
operate 50 million plus dollar 
budgets. 

1283
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,800
And they're showing people what 
non white artists are willing to

1284
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,680
do in this medium because they 
they have not been traditionally

1285
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,279
or historically given the access
to be in this medium where there

1286
01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:22,160
is a little bit of like a it's 
not a fuck you energy, because 

1287
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,800
that's something I often say, 
but it's more of like, I'm do, 

1288
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,000
I'm just going to do it all. 
Like everything I've ever wanted

1289
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:28,240
to do, I'm going to put it on 
screen. 

1290
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,359
And it's far more exciting than 
just the, I think the the 

1291
01:08:32,359 --> 01:08:36,359
conventions of typical formula 
filmmaking, formulaic filmmaking

1292
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:38,960
today from usually white 
artists. 

1293
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:40,560
I just want to throw that out 
there because I don't think it's

1294
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,000
a coincidence that that's 
happening. 

1295
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,279
Anyways, incredible sequence. 
And you can see it from 

1296
01:08:46,279 --> 01:08:48,680
O'connell's character, Jimmy 
Crystal, who's looking at the 

1297
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:50,640
toward the end of this 
performance from Ray Fines. 

1298
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,680
He's sort of getting a little 
bit annoyed where Fines has 

1299
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:58,000
hijacked a little bit too much 
of his steam and power. 

1300
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,520
Or he's like, you're doing my 
belief system and creating a 

1301
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,439
better show out of it. 
You're doing my ideology in a 

1302
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,200
more entertaining way, and 
you're taking my power and 

1303
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,560
making it more theatrical where 
it's kind of irritating me. 

1304
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:13,760
Like, yeah, so I thought that 
was really funny. 

1305
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:19,120
It felt, it also felt like a 
within the Alex Garland project,

1306
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,560
very similar to watching like 
Oscar Isaac, the dancing scene, 

1307
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,160
like how iconic that is. 
But yeah, I know, I, I think 

1308
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:29,040
you're right. 
Like Jack O'Connell is like, 

1309
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,080
hang on a second here, like 
you're stealing my Thunder and 

1310
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:37,399
let's go ahead and get to the, 
the kind of commandments that 

1311
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:40,880
you're going to confirm for my 
fingers. 

1312
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:45,240
And I think what, what are they?
They're like the to basically 

1313
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:49,319
like add fingers, right and 
spread their charity and then 

1314
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:51,319
also that he is the son of 
Satan, like that's what he wants

1315
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:52,680
confirmed. 
And doesn't he turn to Kelly 

1316
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,240
while he's doing this? 
He's like, no back talk. 

1317
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,760
No, Yeah. 
He's he says like and yeah, like

1318
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,960
we're we're going to go on with 
our mission without back chat. 

1319
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:06,800
Yeah, back chat, which is not a 
phrase that we have in the US, 

1320
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,280
but I really would like to 
incorporate back chat. 

1321
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,480
There's so many colloquial 
things that I couldn't pick up 

1322
01:10:11,480 --> 01:10:13,840
on in these last two movies that
I wish we had. 

1323
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,560
I mean, we have like 10% of our 
listeners actually live in the 

1324
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,480
UK, which so let us know if 
there are things that were 

1325
01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:21,880
missing. 
But that is one of them where 

1326
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,160
I'm like, I wish I could pick up
on some of the things O'Connell 

1327
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,880
saying that I can't totally 
identify, but yeah. 

1328
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:31,720
But absolutely love that scene. 
And then he kind of senses that 

1329
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:38,080
things are going awry when Rafe,
you know, notices that Spike is 

1330
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,440
underneath the mask, which not 
totally sure how he did that, 

1331
01:10:41,440 --> 01:10:43,640
how he did that. 
It's pretty dark, you know, for 

1332
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,280
I thought they were just going 
to like have Spike take off the 

1333
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,640
mask and Kelson would kind of 
see, but whatever, he will go 

1334
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,240
with it. 
Harry Potter, he has his 

1335
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:55,640
mother's eyes and I think finds 
got very familiar with his the 

1336
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,320
mom's eyes. 
I guess he hasn't heard a lot of

1337
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,480
people in a. 
Really long time either. 

1338
01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:03,120
So like, if that's the one 
person you really like, you're 

1339
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,880
right in the past. 
He knows Jodie Comer well in the

1340
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,840
sun. 
Well, we should say also he was 

1341
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,720
basically the another part of 
the comedy that me and Kelsey 

1342
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,120
grabbed each other's arms saying
to one another when he is 

1343
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,720
performing Satan, we're like, Oh
my God, it's subversive because 

1344
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,280
he's doing Lord Voldemort. 
But as like cosplay. 

1345
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,640
So like, there's another meta 
layer of like Harry Potter fans 

1346
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,840
being like, that's him being 
playful with the idea that we 

1347
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,360
know he's Lord Voldemort. 
Well, especially the way he's, 

1348
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:33,880
like, slinking around and 
circling Jack O'Connell at one 

1349
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:38,840
point feels so Voldemort coded. 
So yeah, it it is very fun. 

1350
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,560
But but yeah, so he notices that
right. 

1351
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:45,280
Spike is underneath this 
twisted, weird mask and says, 

1352
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:49,320
actually, like, I have one more 
thing that that we need to do as

1353
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,120
the son of Satan. 
Jack O'Connell, Sir Jimmy 

1354
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:56,280
Crystal, you need to be 
crucified like the Son of God. 

1355
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:01,280
And I love what Jimmy'z like not
in the agreement. 

1356
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,320
And this is like the part where,
you know, at the very beginning 

1357
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,680
when Jimmy by the OR at the very
beginning of like their meeting 

1358
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,920
by the river. 
I was like, thank God when Jimmy

1359
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,400
said let's cut a deal. 
I I turned you. 

1360
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,360
I said, thank God they're not 
going to kill refunds because I 

1361
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,680
love him. 
And hopefully he shows up like 

1362
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,080
maybe Aaron Taylor Johnson can 
meet him in the third one, you 

1363
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:22,720
know, like I'm glad he'll be a 
part of this. 

1364
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,120
And you were like, oh, no, 
they're definitely killing him. 

1365
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,560
So when it this happens here? 
Because Garland's devastating. 

1366
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,280
Garland's characters are more 
ideas than totally developed 

1367
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:36,560
characters, and so it made more 
most sense for the idea to be 

1368
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:38,320
capitalized on by killing that 
character. 

1369
01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:42,600
Regardless if people were 
expecting it or not, it was so 

1370
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:48,080
devastating to see Jimmy Crystal
stick that knife into Kelson's 

1371
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:50,640
body. 
Did you get emotional at the end

1372
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:53,280
of the first 28 years later with
the death of Joni Comer and how 

1373
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,800
that is designed in terms of 
like the writing of it and the 

1374
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:58,680
performance of it and how 
quickly it happens? 

1375
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,640
And also, did you get emotional 
at the end of this movie when we

1376
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:06,200
lose Dr. Ian Kelson basically in
his sacrifice to save the boy? 

1377
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:11,160
I don't think I cried if that's 
what you're asking, but I did 

1378
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,880
get emotional. 
Yeah, I think similar, similar 

1379
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,360
to me. 
I got emotional but I didn't 

1380
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,240
cry. 
But I'm a big crier in movies 

1381
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,280
and I do think that is like 1 
criticism. 

1382
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,840
I would kind of direct at both 
of these. 

1383
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,080
Didn't make me cry. 
Of these films well it's that 

1384
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:28,080
they there is a little bit of a 
rushed feeling or an undeserved 

1385
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,280
emotional moment, though still 
very poignant and like 

1386
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,600
thematically I think dense 
purpose in how we're supposed to

1387
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,600
be emotionally connected to some
of these characters we're like. 

1388
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,440
I think the through line of 
these two movies so far when it 

1389
01:13:41,440 --> 01:13:44,880
comes to the familial stuff is 
about how parents are infected 

1390
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,720
with a sort of shame and they're
infected in the way that they 

1391
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,280
kind of bring children into a 
broken world. 

1392
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:55,560
Like there there is something 
inherent about birth that is a 

1393
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,880
sort of psychological infection 
that you impose on your 

1394
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,840
children, if that makes sense. 
And I think the movie is sort of

1395
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:05,120
like reckoning with that where 
Dr. Ian, he's so committed to 

1396
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,400
protecting innocence and so is 
Jody combers character. 

1397
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,920
The mother who like did not did 
not want Spike as a 12 year old 

1398
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,720
to become this warrior to even 
with her sickness, like with 

1399
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:17,240
cancer, she was like the most, I
think, lucid during those 

1400
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:19,720
moments where her child might be
in danger and she kills like a 

1401
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,280
zombie to protect him at night 
time in the first movie. 

1402
01:14:22,440 --> 01:14:24,680
And so these films keep coming 
back to this idea, this huge 

1403
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,400
through line of I think all the 
28 films, because there's a lot 

1404
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,400
of like children in these 
movies, Like there's a the young

1405
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:32,320
girl in the first movie, there's
the two kids in the weeks later 

1406
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,200
movie. 
We obviously have, you know, 

1407
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:38,480
Spike in these last two films 
where basically the virus, I 

1408
01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:40,800
think, is supposed to work as a 
larger metaphor for, you know, a

1409
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:42,560
lot of ideas. 
Not all of them work, but maybe 

1410
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,680
the clearest when it comes to 
the emotional aspects is what do

1411
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,640
we pass down to our future 
generations? 

1412
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,520
And I think because that idea 
was a little bit forced at the 

1413
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,080
end of the last movie with the 
death of Joni Comer's character,

1414
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,960
that I won't resonate with it 
probably until I have my own 

1415
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:00,000
kids. 
Or like we have our own kids and

1416
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,720
in this movie, I think it also 
won't resonate until again, we 

1417
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:05,360
have our own kids because I 
think it's so much about that 

1418
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:06,960
idea. 
Although as like a teacher, 

1419
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,960
obviously I resonated with, I 
understood, I think what was 

1420
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,080
happening, but it didn't totally
connect with me. 

1421
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,720
So I don't know if it's a 
criticism as much or is it's as 

1422
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,920
much as I have not deep into my 
life as a human being to the to 

1423
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:19,840
the depths I would need to 
totally connect. 

1424
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,080
With those two things, no, I 
mean you cry at every other 

1425
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:24,320
movie. 
Like where? 

1426
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:26,160
So maybe it is an issue in 
Screenplay I. 

1427
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,280
Don't know that it was more so 
like what you're talking about 

1428
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,680
is the Jodie Homer death felt. 
Yeah. 

1429
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:35,720
Like, oh, wow, this is kind of 
out of nowhere in terms of their

1430
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,760
the length of their stay at the 
bone Temple. 

1431
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:42,560
And then also when she dies, we 
get the flashback that was 

1432
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,400
really not that long ago in the 
movie of them like sticking 

1433
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:47,760
their tongues out at each other 
of like harassing. 

1434
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,000
Is your dad silly with you? 
Like, does he give you like a 

1435
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:55,280
room to be playful and not just 
like everything you do is in 

1436
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,680
service of becoming this like 
idea of what a man is in our 

1437
01:15:58,760 --> 01:15:59,720
society? 
Kind of. 

1438
01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:03,840
So I feel like, but the 
flashbacks felt a little hollow 

1439
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,640
because it had just happened. 
So it wasn't like going back on 

1440
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:09,800
these memories that, you know 
what I mean, like. 

1441
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:12,200
We haven't built felt inserted. 
It felt like the end of a 

1442
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:14,520
trilogy more than the end of a 
first movie. 

1443
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,800
So that's why I felt like a 
little bit forced or not totally

1444
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,280
deserved. 
But the point I was going to 

1445
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,960
make was with Ian, I think it 
felt more deserved actually. 

1446
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:26,000
OK, yeah, But I but I think in 
terms of the Ian, it felt 

1447
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:30,160
abrupt, but it was fine because 
we had spent a lot of time with 

1448
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,800
Kelson and we got a lot of quiet
moments, which we'll get to in a

1449
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:36,360
second with Samson, with Kelson 
in this movie. 

1450
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,280
But I think, yeah, like what 
you're talking about, like, I 

1451
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:46,520
don't know that Kelson and Jody,
like Comer's, I forgot her 

1452
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,720
character's name, but Spike's 
mom, I don't know that they were

1453
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,960
like particularly focused on 
protecting innocence as much as 

1454
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:59,720
like what you were more so 
saying like is trying to use the

1455
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:05,000
the the idea of like protecting 
children from just immediately 

1456
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,040
absorbing whatever like idea 
system they're born into, which 

1457
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:10,120
I think. 
That's kind of what I. 

1458
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,400
Mean yeah, I know I that is what
you meant I just think that like

1459
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:15,000
innocence wasn't the. 
They want, they want to like 

1460
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,360
maybe it's curiosity or like 
they want to preserve just the 

1461
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:24,360
kind of like the rawness of what
it like a young mind can consume

1462
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:27,480
and just making sure that that's
not totally consumed by the fog 

1463
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,880
of the virus, which in this case
would be like the ideology going

1464
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,400
back to your point that kids are
born into. 

1465
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:36,600
So basically what happens next? 
They nail Jimmy up. 

1466
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:41,040
Yeah, we see Kelly, who tells 
Kelson in this kind of funny 

1467
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:44,160
moment where she's like, you're 
not going to survive that. 

1468
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:48,320
And then it's like, I'll do one 
last wish for you, though. 

1469
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:51,200
I'll. 
I'll nail Jimmy to the cross and

1470
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:56,400
we see him crucified and the 
upside down cross and Kelson is 

1471
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:00,560
like dying next to him as he 
sees this hallucination of 

1472
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:05,160
Samson as the devil. 
Right, yes, his worst fears or 

1473
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:07,240
dreams I guess, throughout the 
movie of actually meeting the 

1474
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,280
devil come true, in his mind at 
least. 

1475
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,520
Samson, we did skip over his 
subplot. 

1476
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,120
He is the only subplot of the 
movie. 

1477
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,920
There is no surprisingly, 
there's no Aaron Taylor Johnson 

1478
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,120
subplot. 
I thought there would be running

1479
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,360
through the woods, running into 
other alphas. 

1480
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:23,640
Yeah, the baby. 
I thought there would maybe 

1481
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,200
there is a 20 minute subplot 
that Alex Garland had and 10 

1482
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,040
pages of a screenplay that he 
probably cut as to make this a 

1483
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:32,160
tight 100 minute movie, which I 
do appreciate from Garland and 

1484
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:33,760
some of his works. 
He's he's good at that, even 

1485
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:37,400
though I think Boyle and Dacosta
actually bring a humanity to his

1486
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,360
tone that is often defeatist or 
fatalist, which is nice. 

1487
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:45,520
But Samson, he goes on a few 
personal drug induced journeys 

1488
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,960
before we see him at the end of 
this movie to regain, if I'm 

1489
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:52,080
saying this correctly, I think 
human consciousness where he 

1490
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:55,920
gets flashbacks of what it was 
like or he starts hearing sounds

1491
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:57,520
he might have heard of as a 
human being. 

1492
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,480
And then we, he gets on the 
train, he sits down like he is a

1493
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:03,360
human being. 
And we cut to the most 

1494
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:07,240
legitimate flashback that we've 
seen in the entire movie where 

1495
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:10,200
he's a child and he's looking at
a picture book of a moon. 

1496
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:11,880
And that is the one word he 
says. 

1497
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,880
And which I, this was the reason
I asked the emotional thing was 

1498
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:17,480
because I was going to tie it up
here. 

1499
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:21,200
This was the only thing that I 
actually got teared up in in the

1500
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:23,600
movie, realizing that Samson was
a was a kid. 

1501
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,840
And just the this movie keeps 
coming back to this idea of of 

1502
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,720
children being traumatized by 
the world around them and how 

1503
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,520
there is something, even though 
there is something about there 

1504
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,280
is a quality about death that is
beautiful because it gives life 

1505
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,760
to rebirth in some ways. 
And that's a cycle of life and 

1506
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:41,480
death. 
There's also something deeply 

1507
01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:43,880
traumatizing about bringing a 
child into a world that's 

1508
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:48,520
already corrupt and seeing that 
the character that we've been 

1509
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:51,840
most afraid of in this franchise
for a rifle, you know, justified

1510
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,240
reasons because Samson is 
frightening. 

1511
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,320
It has just been infected with 
this cloud or, or fog, rather. 

1512
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:01,520
And Kelson has sort of rescued 
him from that. 

1513
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,520
And when the woman on the train 
in the flashback asks for his 

1514
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:09,480
ticket, and he says back, like, 
oh, I don't have my ticket. 

1515
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,560
And you have the actor Chi Lewis
Perry, who made me tear up 

1516
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,600
saying I don't have my ticket in
a kind of like, innocent way. 

1517
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:19,600
And then we see the shot of all 
these zombies on the train 

1518
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:22,280
staring at him like. 
Like are you are OP? 

1519
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:24,440
Like why do you seem like you're
a human and not a zombie? 

1520
01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:26,200
Like why are you not affected 
all all of a sudden? 

1521
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:27,960
And then it turns into a John 
Wick sequence. 

1522
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,440
I was like holy shit this is an 
amazing sublot. 

1523
01:20:30,440 --> 01:20:33,520
Well, also like kind of what you
were talking about earlier, the 

1524
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:40,360
the idea of like the vision that
young Samson has like as a child

1525
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:43,920
in that flashback, that the kind
of transition scene there is 

1526
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,520
also like interesting 
thematically because basically 

1527
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,080
like he is surrounded by all 
these white people on the train.

1528
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:55,320
The woman asking for his ticket 
becomes this like horror figure 

1529
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,960
and like merging the flashback 
with the zombie that's there in 

1530
01:20:59,960 --> 01:21:02,720
real time. 
And so that that was 

1531
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:04,240
interesting. 
Yeah, loaded imagery, yeah. 

1532
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,160
Yeah, but then you're right, it 
it does become a John Wick like 

1533
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:08,760
just killing all the zombies 
scene. 

1534
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:11,920
Right. 
And so and 28 weeks later, we 

1535
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,360
know that there is not not that 
this movie cares about lore of 

1536
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,080
its franchise. 
I don't think Garland and Boyle 

1537
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:18,840
really worked too much on 28 
weeks. 

1538
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:20,640
I think they were like on the 
production a little bit, but 

1539
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,760
then they left it. 
So it's like made by other 

1540
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:23,960
people. 
So I think they sort of disown 

1541
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:25,400
it. 
But they did show a flashback to

1542
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,680
28 Weeks and 28 years Later Part
1 where they show the mall 

1543
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:31,280
sequence or sorry, no, not the 
mall sequence of the Jeremy 

1544
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:34,280
Renner sequence from sniping. 
People are being asked to snipe 

1545
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,280
humans and not just the 
infected. 

1546
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,280
But we learned in that movie 
that there is a, there are 

1547
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,880
people who are immune right to 
the virus because the mother 

1548
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:45,800
figure, I think becomes 
infected, but she's a hybrid of 

1549
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:48,360
a human infected. 
And so now we're learning that 

1550
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:51,360
it will be possible through, I 
don't understand the medication 

1551
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:55,680
process here, but the, I guess 
the through psychiatric 

1552
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,200
medicine. 
Whatever the concoction of pills

1553
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:03,480
that that Ray finds gave Samson.
It worked, I guess, right. 

1554
01:22:03,480 --> 01:22:07,120
And so he comes back as talking 
and comes back to take the body 

1555
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,760
of Ian Kelson and brings it 
somewhere that I'm sure we'll 

1556
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,560
find out in Part 3. 
Maybe he's making his skull to 

1557
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,120
put it on top of the skull 
thing. 

1558
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:16,680
I don't know He's. 
Going to inherit the bone 

1559
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:18,840
temple. 
So that's basically the movie. 

1560
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,960
And then we cut to black and we 
open up in an epilogue, which is

1561
01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:25,600
Kelly Murphy, yes, which is 
wild. 

1562
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:27,320
Which, yeah, was a good 
surprise. 

1563
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:29,880
Like, did you have doubts 
throughout this movie that he 

1564
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:32,160
would actually make a return? 
People were cheering and 

1565
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:35,200
clapping and I usually don't 
join in on that because I'm like

1566
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,560
experiencing the movie and it's 
not because I I'm disagreeing 

1567
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,120
with that choice. 
And I did join in on the 

1568
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:42,520
clapping. 
I was hype is Kelly Murphy. 

1569
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:47,200
I was going to say feels like a 
Marvel Stinger, but the way they

1570
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:50,680
used to use it back in like 2012
where it felt really, I think 

1571
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:52,680
satisfying, like this was 
satisfying. 

1572
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:55,720
And Kelly Murphy looks really 
good. 

1573
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:57,280
I guess I don't. 
Almost as a criticism. 

1574
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:58,440
Of Heimer money. 
He does. 

1575
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,160
He looks like he has a skin care
routine that was not present 

1576
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,200
back in 2000 when he didn't have
any money. 

1577
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:09,760
We cut to basically a little 
girl doing homework about World 

1578
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,640
War 2, I think, and the rise of 
fascism, which is not subtle, 

1579
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:17,360
but it goes back to, you know, 
Garland being unsubtle about 

1580
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,760
ideas that are somehow still 
complicated in our world today. 

1581
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,040
So therefore, it's actually 
important not to be subtle about

1582
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:26,320
these things, which is basically
Garland saying the rage virus 

1583
01:23:26,480 --> 01:23:29,520
has always existed in our 
politics, in our ideologies, in 

1584
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:31,520
our tribalism. 
And so it's not just like this 

1585
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,400
biological like virus. 
It is a political reoccurrence, 

1586
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:36,920
which I liked. 
And they literally have the girl

1587
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,480
go like history repeats itself 
in the Churchill thing. 

1588
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:41,240
So I thought that was all 
awesome. 

1589
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:43,840
I like that the dad is like a 
teacher and he's like, make sure

1590
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:45,520
you study this part. 
This will be on the test 

1591
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:46,720
tomorrow. 
I just love that. 

1592
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:51,160
If I were to know like what were
on the exam, yeah, they. 

1593
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:52,560
Have great chemistry instantly 
too. 

1594
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,840
Definitely, yeah. 
And I I love how we also when we

1595
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,040
cut back to this, you 
immediately know that Kelly 

1596
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,920
Murphy is going to be introduced
because it's shot in a similar 

1597
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,240
way that 28 days later is, you 
know, it goes back to like a 

1598
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:11,160
kind of less a worse resolution,
right? 

1599
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,640
I'm like the Jeep and the the 
house to kind of like QS into 

1600
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,280
this introduction. 
Yeah, I I didn't clock that it 

1601
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:18,680
was the Jeep. 
That's really cool. 

1602
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:24,160
And then we see that they see 
Spike and Kelly running across 

1603
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:25,960
the field. 
The music starts playing. 

1604
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,480
The daughter is like, are we 
going to help them? 

1605
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:31,040
And the dad, of course, to 
continue this through line of 

1606
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,920
like actually teaching kids how 
to help people rather than how 

1607
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,440
to isolate themselves from 
people is like, of course. 

1608
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:40,320
And we hear the 28th theme music
start kind of getting louder and

1609
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,080
then it cuts to black. 
The movie ends, Everyone cheers,

1610
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:45,000
claps. 
Me and Kelsey turn to each 

1611
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:46,560
other. 
We're like, did we just watch an

1612
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:48,880
instant classic? 
Which is strange considering 

1613
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,200
it's an IP movie. 
And considering that it's not 

1614
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:55,920
really like in it's not like 
this clear cut storyline that 

1615
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:59,080
extends from the second one, 
like it feels like I said at the

1616
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:01,520
OR you're talking about at the 
beginning, like the side quest, 

1617
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,560
like a total, you know, 
different story than we 

1618
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:08,920
originally thought we were going
into. 

1619
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:12,520
So it it will go down as like 
maybe one of the best sequels 

1620
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:14,960
ever to me at least. 
I know some people might be 

1621
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,240
like, where was the story with 
Aaron Taylor Johnson that I came

1622
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:19,400
to see? 
Why am I seeing all these 

1623
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:23,920
Teletubby, you know, cult like 
freaks here? 

1624
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:27,280
And and that's fine, I get that.
But I just thought the tone was 

1625
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:29,120
like so ambitious. 
I loved it. 

1626
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:32,480
Like you said, the way that NIA 
Dacosta like framed a lot of the

1627
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:35,680
comedy here, but still kept it 
really suspenseful still like 

1628
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:40,240
within horror threads. 
And you're right, like, and then

1629
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:44,360
in terms of the actual 
screenplay, I like that we come 

1630
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:49,880
back to what the 28 franchise is
kind of like circling back to 

1631
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:54,640
again and again where, you know,
Spike asks Ray fines like, you 

1632
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,520
could have just let us go. 
Why did you like why did you 

1633
01:25:57,520 --> 01:25:59,240
even say anything to me? 
Right. 

1634
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:03,720
And and Nelson is like, well, I 
feel like you've already like 

1635
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:07,800
gone through a lot and basically
I'm at this age and I have the 

1636
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:13,920
perspective to kind of like make
sure that my dying kind of he 

1637
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,480
keeps saying the Memento Bori 
like we all have to die at one 

1638
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:17,800
point. 
And if I'm going to die, I'm 

1639
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:21,680
going to make it have some sort 
of reason or like teach you that

1640
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:26,960
you don't have to always like be
be in service of like justifying

1641
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:31,200
actions for self preservation or
like what you're learning from 

1642
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:34,480
your you know, that the people 
you maybe trust to like you can 

1643
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:36,760
question things. 
And I feel like that character 

1644
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:38,480
there, it was in line. 
You're right with like Kelly 

1645
01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:40,400
Murphy being like, yes, let's go
help. 

1646
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:41,440
It's beautiful. 
Yeah. 

1647
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:42,880
It's very nice. 
It's very kind. 

1648
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:48,240
And I think my extra credit goes
to Decosta and Garland working 

1649
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:53,160
together to make a sequel to a, 
you know, a franchise where they

1650
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:55,080
did make a story that is 
singular. 

1651
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:58,040
It is taking IP to make 
something wholly original for 

1652
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:01,360
the most part, except for the 
15% of like, you know, IP lore 

1653
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:03,640
that has to be dragged into it. 
I think it's one of the reasons 

1654
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:06,000
that we're Prometheus sets. 
Like we love Prometheus. 

1655
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:09,440
We love Covenant as sequels to 
the Alien franchise because they

1656
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:12,720
are sort of like side quests 
that give you an origins to the 

1657
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:15,120
Alien movies that give you a 
potential future where they 

1658
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:16,200
could go. 
And that's certainly where 

1659
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:19,560
Disney's taking them in AI think
in a bad direction, but they're 

1660
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,800
also their own kind of stand 
alone stories about their stand 

1661
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:25,400
alone ideas that can connect to 
the larger franchise if you'd 

1662
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:27,280
like. 
I think it's what we used to do 

1663
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,920
with sequels like Halloween, the
Halloween franchise, because we 

1664
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,160
just did the Halloween, the 
first movie, John Carpenter's 

1665
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,720
film in October. 
Some of those Halloween movies, 

1666
01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:38,040
the sequels are really cool 
because they feel like side 

1667
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:40,360
quests from the Michael Myers 
Canon. 

1668
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,560
Like even Halloween 3 doesn't 
have Michael Myers in it, right?

1669
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:46,120
Like so like that's we used to 
do stuff like that. 

1670
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:49,520
But because studios are have 
these commercial formulas of 

1671
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,160
thinking that audiences are so 
conditioned and fucking stupid 

1672
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:54,520
that we need to just see faces 
that we've seen before in 

1673
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:57,520
previous shit to go out and buy 
tickets because they've created 

1674
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:00,600
those supply chains for us. 
And that's not actually where 

1675
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:02,280
the demand is. 
That's just the supply. 

1676
01:28:02,280 --> 01:28:03,840
And that's the movies we have 
access to. 

1677
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:05,360
They think that's all that 
works. 

1678
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:08,400
But thankfully Boyle, Garland, 
because they had the rights on 

1679
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:11,640
this after they had left. 
I don't, I forget who had them 

1680
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:14,240
for the last 20-5 years. 
They created this contract where

1681
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:16,800
they're like Sony, you can have 
28 days later and you can have 

1682
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:18,120
28 weeks later. 
We'll give you the rights. 

1683
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:21,000
But we want 3 movies. 
We're going to make a trilogy. 

1684
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:24,040
And it kind of feels like I'm 
going to put this out there 

1685
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:25,840
because I'm assuming the third 
movie is going to be epic and 

1686
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:28,840
it's going to be like A2, an 
actual 2 hour film, not one of 

1687
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:30,520
these like 90 to 110 minute 
movies. 

1688
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:34,040
I think we'll get like a 2/2 and
1/2 hour, like epic end to this 

1689
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,160
trilogy. 
I hope with like Aaron Taylor 

1690
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:38,280
Johnson and killing Murphy, 
maybe some fighting. 

1691
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:42,520
Yeah, I I'm just going to throw 
this out there. 

1692
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:46,440
I wouldn't be surprised if this 
movie does do as close to as 

1693
01:28:46,440 --> 01:28:48,040
well as the first one. 
I don't think it'll do better 

1694
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:50,040
just because there's no 
marketing really at all. 

1695
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,520
There's not a cool trailer with 
the first one had, or at least I

1696
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:55,320
don't think there is that this 
one does pretty well. 

1697
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,440
It makes 100 mil, let's say, and
the third one makes 100 mil. 

1698
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,800
I bet they could extend this 
into an even longer saga. 

1699
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:07,440
What's after years, 28 decades 
later? 

1700
01:29:07,440 --> 01:29:11,000
No, I mean, they can continue 
just making like 28 years later,

1701
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:13,600
you know, Colon, yes, yeah, you 
know, whatever that whatever it 

1702
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:14,120
is. 
Yeah. 

1703
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:18,640
The Lonely Island, whatever. 
Does that make sense? 

1704
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:19,920
Yeah. 
I think they could make this 

1705
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,240
like an interesting thing where 
you can bring on Nuo tours, make

1706
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:26,080
it like the Alien franchise 
where Alien three, they bring on

1707
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:27,720
David Fincher to like kill those
other characters. 

1708
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:29,760
Just keep Ripley. 
I mean, there's so many 

1709
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:32,600
interesting things to do with 
dystopian stories, but also 

1710
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:36,120
zombie stories like we saw. 
I mean, they have a lot of 

1711
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:39,280
evidence with like, The Last of 
Us really Catching Fire for the 

1712
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:41,840
first season and that dwindled 
out in the second. 

1713
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:45,840
But but to do with something 
like interesting here with this 

1714
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:47,360
that feels like unique. 
You're right. 

1715
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:48,960
And I love. 
Yeah. 

1716
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:51,560
I hope like go tell friends to 
see this especially if they're 

1717
01:29:51,560 --> 01:29:55,800
horror fans because I would love
to see more of these movies get 

1718
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:58,440
made. 
My last nitpick though, that I 

1719
01:29:58,440 --> 01:30:00,680
didn't get to with this epilogue
because I forgot, is that Naomi 

1720
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:03,680
Harris wasn't in the. 
Yeah, I thought we were going to

1721
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:05,560
see her. 
And obviously that's, you know, 

1722
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:08,080
her daughter too. 
And that was actually really 

1723
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:11,200
disappointing because I was 
really excited by the idea of 

1724
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:15,760
killing Murphy and Naomi Harris 
returning to this IP, even 

1725
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:16,880
though the daughter's really 
cute. 

1726
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,640
I would have I would actually 
trade in the daughter figure. 

1727
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,000
You know, I know this movie's 
about kids and their parents. 

1728
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,240
So these franchise for this 
franchise's commentary makes 

1729
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,600
sense. 
I just love that actress and 

1730
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,400
she's had like a cool year with 
black bag and she had a 

1731
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,000
obviously her her one of her 
breakout performances was 

1732
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:34,320
Moonlight, but she was stuck in 
the Bond franchise for a while. 

1733
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,040
So I was kind of hoping she'd 
have a return to being one of 

1734
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,080
the, you know, one of the new 
exciting actors of her 

1735
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,400
generation, just as good of an 
actor for generations like Jodie

1736
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:44,280
Comer is. 
So that was kind of sad to see. 

1737
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:48,680
Yeah, I wonder if like the 
because it was a sweet like 

1738
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:52,640
addition to have Kelly Murphy 
and then you have like some sort

1739
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:57,480
of mystery around, OK, is this 
Naomi Harris's, you know, child 

1740
01:30:57,480 --> 01:30:59,560
also? 
OK does that mean we're going to

1741
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:01,160
see her in the sequel? 
Right. 

1742
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:04,280
It does kind of like deep in a 
question that we have. 

1743
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:07,880
So like, it would be really cool
if we if she does show up in in 

1744
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:11,360
the next one, right. 
But yeah, it was disappointing 

1745
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:15,400
for sure. 
OK, my extra credit goes to Jack

1746
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:18,240
O'Connell. 
And I know it's like for the 

1747
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:21,240
extra credit, I know that is the
performance that people will be 

1748
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:23,920
talking about coming out of this
movie, I hope. 

1749
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:27,240
But it's not like he's going to 
be, you don't win an Oscar or 

1750
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:30,520
anything. 
Like he deserves recognition for

1751
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,520
this because I think that people
have talked about his 

1752
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:34,880
performance in Sinners, which 
was scary. 

1753
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:38,880
But here, like he makes the 
movie work. 

1754
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:42,440
He makes a tone that is really 
hard to nail work, Of course, 

1755
01:31:42,440 --> 01:31:48,080
like we have been saying, like 
it's Acosta's choices in the the

1756
01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:52,160
film, like language or visual 
language adds a lot to the 

1757
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:54,920
comedy. 
But what he is doing to be 

1758
01:31:54,920 --> 01:32:00,440
terrible, terrifying and funny 
and strange and leave you on 

1759
01:32:00,440 --> 01:32:04,280
your toes is like, it's just 
amazing. 

1760
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:07,960
Yeah, both like a populist that 
you can feel. 

1761
01:32:07,960 --> 01:32:10,480
You can understand why people 
could be convinced by him, but 

1762
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:14,200
also dumb enough where it's kind
of obvious that he is an idiot. 

1763
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:18,360
That's a hard tone to nail. 
And he does that. 

1764
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,720
Yeah, shot on him. 
And Ray finds Ray finds who 

1765
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:23,400
could easily retire because he 
got the Harry Potter money. 

1766
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:25,800
Who knows how much money he was 
being paid for those movies. 

1767
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,440
But is continuing to take just 
weird character actor 

1768
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:33,800
performances when he could just 
be doing like ROM coms, which I 

1769
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:36,640
would like to but Charlotte 
refines as well. 

1770
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:40,440
And the rest of this, this 
ensemble and Archie, what is 

1771
01:32:40,440 --> 01:32:42,080
Archie Williams, who plays 
Spike? 

1772
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:44,280
Alfie, I think. 
Sorry, Alfie Williams, who I 

1773
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:47,000
hope you know gets a little bit 
more to do in the third. 

1774
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:47,640
Movie. 
I agree. 

1775
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:49,080
Yeah. 
Any predictions for the third 

1776
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:51,960
movie? 
I mean, besides, just like the 

1777
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:54,280
plot lines running together, I 
don't really know. 

1778
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:55,640
We made predictions on our last 
one. 

1779
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:57,880
We were wrong about all of them 
because I was talking about like

1780
01:32:57,880 --> 01:32:59,600
how we're going to return to the
island. 

1781
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:02,880
But I guess we'll get more of 
that in the third one. 

1782
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:04,760
Do you think they become the big
bads in the third one? 

1783
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:06,720
Because who else? 
Yeah, who would become the big 

1784
01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:09,560
bads? 
There's a new group, new actors.

1785
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:11,960
A new Jimmy. 
Colin Farrell comes, and he's 

1786
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:15,120
the strange, eccentric villain 
of the third one. 

1787
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:17,560
I don't know. 
I don't know. 

1788
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:20,320
We'll see. 
All right, we'll be back soon 

1789
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,320
with I have no Idea. 
We'll be doing stuff on Patreon.

1790
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:24,920
You can check us out on there 
for free members. 

1791
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,040
You have a lot of access to a 
lot of episodes for subscribers.

1792
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,400
We got like 100 episodes of like
400 hours worth of content on 

1793
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,040
there. 
You can listen to We're watching

1794
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:35,880
the Golden Globes very soon, 
which is exciting, but we're not

1795
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:38,640
doing an episode on that. 
We'll probably back toward the 

1796
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:42,160
end of January in the main feed,
maybe early February with Send 

1797
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:46,720
Help, which is the Rachel 
McAdams, Dylan O'Brien, Sam 

1798
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:51,160
Raimi horror one location, you 
know, movie that I'm very 

1799
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:55,480
excited by that looks like 
Castaway, but with my boy Dylan 

1800
01:33:55,480 --> 01:34:00,440
O'Brien playing an evil person 
or Rachel McAdams, who is also 

1801
01:34:00,440 --> 01:34:03,320
one of our favorite actresses, 
playing somebody who could be a 

1802
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:05,240
protagonist or sneaky antagonist
of that movie. 

1803
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:08,200
We'll see. 
Definitely an unexpected duo 

1804
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:10,080
there and I am so excited for 
it. 

1805
01:34:10,480 --> 01:34:11,640
All right, we'll be back. 
Peace. 

1806
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:11,720
Bye.