Hello, welcome to the extra credits of NIA Decosta's 28
Years Later, The Bone Temple. I'm Trey and I'm Kelsey.
So we just saw this movie at a sold out early screening.
We have a week or so until the embargo drops.
This is a very recent reaction because we like, literally just
saw this movie and we can't release this episode for, you
know, until that embargo drops, which I have no idea why they're
doing another, you know, close to release date embargo for
critics to not drop their thoughts.
Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense to me.
This isn't like a normal marketing tool that studios are
using for whatever reason. Sony did this with the 1st 28
years later and now they're doing it again with the part
Part 2. Yeah, it's a strange decision to
me because I think, you know, the the marketing for the first
part of 28 years later was really great.
Like the trailer was one of the best trailers I've seen in a
really long time, using kind of like a speech and making it this
weird, like musical, eerie backdrop to a lot of the images
that we're seeing and really focusing.
The World War poem, The backdrop.
Yeah. And really focusing on like Ray
Fines, right, And kind of misdirecting us with who the,
the, you know, movie's going to focus on.
But here it just really doesn't make sense to me because I feel
like a lot of people don't know that Part 2 is coming out.
Yeah, I actually don't think I've seen a trailer for this
film and maybe people have, I don't know.
I haven't seen it really in theaters.
We went to the Avatar movie recently and it wasn't playing
there. And it's kind of a big deal
considering this is like a 50 million plus dollar movie that
nobody seems to know anything about.
I think they might be hoping, and you said this when we walked
out, that audiences who love the first 28 years later will just
return to watch this one. Yeah, I think that's.
Keeping tabs on it, yeah. I think it's probably true, but
I did reach out to a few friends and they didn't even know, you
know, the movie was coming out. You were like horror fans.
Yeah, next week. And who loved the first film in
the franchise. So if you're listening to this
and you have not seen this movie, go see this movie
immediately in theaters in the most packed crowd you can go to.
I would literally look at the times and see if the crowds are
packed. And I would go and take a bad
seat versus a lesser packed, you know, crowd where you have a
better seat just because this movie is like a concert.
And you have to experience it as such to get the full total
package that Dacosta and Garland and the rest of this crew cooked
up here because this is quite a film.
Yeah. Kelsey, you walked out of this
movie and you said if this had come out in 2025, because we saw
this just a few days into the. New year, I know, it's so weird
that it also the Part 1 and Part 2 are so close together.
You said if it came out in 2025 that it might have been your
favorite movie of the year. Yeah, I think I walked out and I
said that was my favorite movie of 2025.
Yeah, which is a pretty awesome statement.
Yeah, I mean. Why, why did you give that
statement to me? Because I was kind of shocked.
I was like, there's some great movies from 2025 and our top 10
or top 15. So.
But I understand, I think why you said.
That I think like when we get towards, you know, this is
obviously a 2026 film, but when we do our 2025 ranking episode,
which we usually do like towards the Oscars because that's when
the all the movies are kind of being talked about.
I might like re evaluate that statement or might have re
evaluated that statement with something like 1 battle after
another or whatever. But I think like in terms of not
thinking, you know, there's two ways to think about it.
Like, Oh, here's the objectively best list in terms of like
filmmaking and like, or, you know, think about Yokim Trier's
like sentimental value that really like resonated with me as
a movie and I thought was beautiful.
And I just like, love his filmography in general.
But in terms of like, like, you know, I was joking about 28
years later Part 2 being my favorite movie even in spite of
those like if it were to come out in 2025.
Talk your shit. You don't have to concede.
That's so much concession just to be like.
I'm just telling people it's. The most entertaining experience
you've had. Or something fucking rock.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Let's talk about it.
It's so good. Like it is like just the the
weird energy that I think is made for me.
Like it is totally up my alley in terms of the concepts I'm
interested in. It's wild because you know, long
time listeners know I don't even like zombie movies.
They're my least favorite genre or sub genre of the horror.
You know, broader like landscape.
You don't like monster movies? I don't like, Yeah.
I don't like feature features Any.
Yeah, Like, it's just not for me.
Although I like the metaphors, like, I like thinking about
them. I just don't like watching them
as much. But this is amazing.
It brings up like everything that I think monster movies or
zombie movies do really well, like dystopian things of what
would you turn to, right, Which reflects what do we turn to even
when we're not in a, you know, dystopia that looks like the one
on screen. It looks at Dogma, Jimmy.
Jimmy. Jimmy and the Jimmy's.
And the fingers. Are we getting into spoilers?
We can say spoiler warning ahead again.
I want to re emphasize then if we're you know as my the last
non spoiler thoughts that ray finds is giving one of the best
performances of his career. Yes, Jack O'Connell is giving
one of the best performances, I think in the recent, my recent
memory of villain performances. It's better than his performance
that he did in Sinners Sinners and equally kind of like
ambitious genre tonal smash as a movie to compare the Bone Temple
to, I think. But Jack O'Connell, this is also
one of his best performances, if not his best that I've ever
seen. And this is just like one of the
wildest tonal swings I've ever experienced in a movie theater.
Going to your point of why I think I agree with you.
This might be one of the best movies I've seen in years.
It is both the most horrifying movie and upsetting movie I've
seen in years. And it's also maybe the funniest
movie I've seen in years. Yes.
Yeah, and I feel like it was like organic comedy, like it
really came out of the situations.
This is not a spoiler yet, but you know, this movie really
focuses on Jack O'Connell, which I think you know, is something
that people could I kind of figure out from the ending of 28
Years Later, Part 1 where we meet him and meet the Jimmies,
which is what Danny Boyle was calling them.
We called them on our our first podcast.
So when like Spike is meeting them right, you you just really
have no idea where it's going to go besides maybe some
foreshadowing of Teletubby lore that we really went into and
took seriously on the first podcast because we are the
Teletubby generation and Power Rangers generation.
And it really paid off in in this movie in particular.
And I can't wait to talk about just basically like what the
jimmies are up to Spikes relationship to them.
But yeah, before we go into spoilers, like Ray Fiennes, the
the quiet, like comedy and warmth that he is able to bring
to his roles, like, even if you think of Voldemort like, like
not, I mean, not that Voldemort is warm, but like there is a a
coolness right about him and unbotheredness that he's able to
to capture. And it just adds like so much to
this movie. And I love how he's kind of like
marketed in the first one. You thought it was going to be
like this horror. He was going to be this like
menacing figure, possibly like you said, like a villain and.
They subvert that even more here.
Yes, exactly, and it and it's just like the way that they use
him and play against what he is capable of, but still like
incorporate that it the movie sings.
Yes, it is amazing. All right.
So to end the non spoiler thoughts, because I know some
people are going to be like, I don't I feel like this is
getting overly hyped for me right now.
I think our show doesn't. If I can say I think our show
does a great job not being hyperbolic about new releases.
That's true. We really try not to be like
this is a 5 star instinct classic.
We really stay away from clickbait reactionary takes
unless something really hits that's very like extra credit
score. And I do think the 28 years
movies are very extra credit score, which is like what Kelsa
saying that these movies are just speaking to us and our
sensibilities and our sense of like a little bit of our
politics and our humor at the same time.
And so they just kind of feel like we also made them.
So you know, when the movie is that I'm sure listeners know
when a movie is so special to you and your subjective
experience with it, it makes you feel like you were in the
writers room a little bit. And that's what these movies
make me feel like. And I I fucking love everything
about this franchise. So again, I am biased.
It is like a strange, cynical franchise, but also these new
movies, these years later movies, and I think the original
28 Days Later movie as well. The reason why they resonate is
because they're also so warm. They care about people so much.
They care about younger generations learning from older
generations and good and in bad ways, and the myth making and
storytelling the older generations tell themselves and
younger ones to justify decisions that they're making in
the present. And these movies are so much
about that, kind of like generational anxiety.
That is a timeless idea in the middle of a dystopia world,
going back to Kelsey's point, where you're kind of like
sitting in these dilemmas of what would you do when the world
ends? Does society, you know, isolate
itself? And if it does, who will you try
to save or who will you try to hurt?
And like, I think those are, again, timeless ideas that
continue to resonate as the world gets more and more
fractured, so. Yeah, I mean dystopian like
franchises or just like projects in general are really interested
in self preservation and they usually have really interesting
themes, but like often still have to operate within a broader
pop culture scale. When you think about like the
most famous zombie projects for general audiences, like The
Walking Dead, for example, which I did not watch in fall so I
won't speak on. But I do think it's interesting
that, like, most people who have a relationship to zombie movies
would think of The Walking Dead as the first time that comes to
mind and like, their recent memory.
And I love how, like 28 years later Part 1 takes like a Rick
figure and is like, is like, yeah, Rick's amazing, but let's
like flip this of what Carl would think of Rick, you know,
like in a different context. That's Aaron Taylor.
Aaron Taylor Johnson and the Spike character.
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like Aaron Taylor
Johnson's playing an interesting mix of Shane and Rick in one
character. Yeah.
Anyways, yeah. So again, last thoughts.
I felt like this was an instantly iconic genre film.
NIA Dacosta shout out you, you made something that's.
Your credit upfront. You made a horror movie that
blends comedy and horror to the degree that I've only seen like
3 or 4 film makers do, which is basically Jordan Peele, Ryan
Coogler, Rose Glass and Zach Kreger.
Like there are only a few film makers in the last decade and
I'm probably forgetting one or two who are able to create
something that is like on one hand, this insane gory horror
home invasion narrative that is also then mixing into this like
British folk satanic fairy tale atmosphere that's also then
mixing in this kind of melancholic, absurdist, bizarre
humor. It is just like it's a huge
compliment. And extra credits I want to give
even in the non spoiler section to NIA Dacosta and working with
Alex Garland to make a movie like this, a sequel like this to
take IP in this direction, which is like really what we need
right now as studios are are crumbling the green light unique
projects. Yeah, and I think it is.
It's like, I've only seen it once, but it's one of my
favorite horror movies of all time.
Like. Damn, we're really hyping this
shit up. Let's go stamp.
It it is. It's like don't go into it.
Like, first of all, don't look up any spoilers because you
really want to let the movie unfold.
But also just like, it's not like, I don't know when people
say that, oh, this is one of the best, you know, movies of all
time in whatever genre. Sometimes I'll go in like having
higher expectations, just like let the movie wash over for you.
It starts a little slow and really picks up.
And don't expect the same vibe or tone from the first movie.
Exactly, Yeah. Yeah, it's very different.
Yeah, and and, but anyway, so yeah, the hype for me at least,
is warranted. I don't know if all audiences
will love this exact tone, but like we said, our theater was
like, I think a concert it. It's funny that you said that.
It really felt like that. I wonder if and the last time I
felt like that in a horror movie was Barbarian.
Interesting, I was going to say Jordan peels us because I think
this movie is to me is probably better than Barbarian and
Weapons. I think so too, but I was
talking about like the the most recent theatre experience that
felt I see similar. But I do think you're right, US
is like more comparable. You're right, Barbarian Theatre
experience was very similar. We we knew nothing going in,
leaving. Everybody was like on their
phone during the crowd or during the movie.
Everybody was like shouting, gasping.
It was laughing. It was awesome.
OK, so we're going to get into spoilers.
This is going to be a deep dive reaction episode.
So if you see the movie, stay. If you haven't, please go watch
it. So I fully expected 28 Years
Later Part 2 to be a direct continuation of Spikes coming of
age story. Same.
OK, that's all I'm going to ask. You, I thought we were going to
go back to the island. We're going to have a lot of
Aaron Taylor Johnson conflict. Like somehow we're getting back
there. Not at all.
Yeah, that's interesting because we loved Spike in that
performance from Alfie Williams. I yeah, I mean, it's not that
well, I wouldn't say like I was disappointed.
I was surprised we didn't get as much Alfie and Spike, but I
loved Ray finds his character even more than Spike and I felt
like we got so much Spike last movie that I was just like a
pleasant surprise and I respected the total like sharp
right turn. Yeah, Well, you said come when I
was asking you questions about it this morning, you were like,
I just loved how that movie was like a side quest.
It was a short story set inside this Garland universe.
And you like that Dacosta took in that direction.
And I think that's the best way to frame it because there's it's
kind of a it's kind of a tight story.
There's really only two plots that are running kind of
seamlessly and simultaneously together.
The first major plot is the more familiar one because it's with
Ray Fines, who we met last movie as Dr. Ian Kelson and his
relationship to Samson, played by Chi Lewis Perry, I believe is
his name. I've never seen this actor act
in a movie before outside of Part 1.
Obviously he is excellent in this film and what he's asked to
do, going from an infected to a sort of hybrid non infected
slash human. And that's probably the biggest
spoiler of this film outside of Jim being at the end of the
movie, which we'll get to. Samson is just to remind people,
is the physically imposing alpha from the first movie.
The Attack on Titan style zombie.
Yes, we got some great, you know, action set pieces with
Samson as he you know, I think he I think he was not the same.
I think it was a different infected, but the alpha who runs
across the land bridge over the water.
And it feels like we're watching Aaron Taylor Johnson and Alfie
Williams run through the cosmos together, which is just an
incredibly shot scene in great cinematography and great visual
effects. That was awesome.
We don't really get a lot of set pieces with this alpha with
Samson. Instead, Samson and Dr. Ian
Kelson are basically hanging out as like a buddy.
Melancholic comedy, romantic comedy, almost intimate comedy,
I guess. It's a friendship.
It's a friendship movie in some ways, and their relationship is
multifaceted. It's strange, kind of warm.
I think it's a lot of the film's ethical core is about basically
the storyline asking us whether a fractured society even
deserves to be saved and whether the infected or our concept of
what the infected is to us are truly the monsters that we tell
ourselves that they are. Or if they are victims operating
under this like fundamental, like kind of fundamental
misconception about what we think they are where the rage
virus is. So I liked how the movie is
asking an audience, especially a a very connected audience, to
the cult classic that is 28 Days Later.
Have you just been like mischaracterizing the infected
for 25 years? Which I think is a fun question.
Yeah, especially when you think about the people who are
positioned in this world who are like the villains of the 28
Years Later franchise, Yes. And we learned that Ian's job
that he's given himself over the last 25 years during this, you
know, post apocalyptic society is that he's basically dedicated
to being the secular scientist, right?
And from what? And I'm trying to gather my
thoughts in this movie, and so I apologize.
So I'm kind of like stating things, but also framing them as
a question to Kelsey because I'm I'm trying to figure it out for
myself. But basically, from what I could
tell, he's trying to demythologize the zombie world
to make it feel like it's less of a religious apocalypse and
more coming back to this question of like, is there just
this fog over the brain? I think as he puts it.
And maybe has, you know, this fog become like a a
psychological issue and maybe these zombies have not been
completely consumed by this, this fog.
And I think the movie is trying to introduce an idea that the
infected might basically be just seeing humans as the real
infected. Yeah.
Does that sound about right? That's.
Kind of like a moment where like Kelson talks to Samson and it's
like, I, I feel like, you know, everyone is afraid of you.
But like I, I'm not sure why the infected are killing children in
particular, right? Like there's no reason or, or
motivation, I guess, to, to kill something that doesn't like
present a threat. And so we get that image of
Samson early on in the, I think it's like one of the opening
scenes, right, of him seeing this guy in the woods, who I
thought was Aaron, Aaron Taylor Johnson.
Oh yeah, that small scene, the guy with the beard and the long
hair. Which I think they did on
purpose like. I agree, I did think that was
him as. Well, I thought he was looking
for Spike in the woods. Good jump scare.
Yeah, yeah. But so we see right what the
infected are looking at when they're like killing someone,
which is that that face, which is essentially the infected.
Do you, do you remember when killing Murphy gets the spray
used on him and the Batman Begins movie and he looks at
Batman and the Batman's face is all mutated?
That's what it reminded me of. Yeah.
I don't know if that's just
because I knew killing Murphy might pop up in this, but I
thought about that visual effect.
So yeah, we get a lot of Ray finds and Samson, like holding
hands, wandering through the meadows together feels a little
bit like Pride and Prejudice meets Attack of the Clones, like
them just hanging out in the sunlight on drugs, which was
fucking awesome. And we'll get to all those
hilarious sequences. That's the that's I think the
center plot. That's the most familiar because
we know Ray finds character at least.
The second plot, which becomes kind of the major story, is
about Sir Jimmy Crystal, played by Jack O'Connell and his other
jimmies called the Fingers. Who are this Colt Warrior?
Satanist. Satanist Power Power Rangers
coded like Teletubbies coded Clockwork Orange serial killers.
Exactly. And yeah, exactly.
Is it a very easy to define group of crazies And here?
In this movie, you know, they become the driving force of the
entire story because they are the sadistic people who have
created this circus of violent killers who are just
mythologizing themselves in pop cultural references.
And I think there's something there thematically that I'm
going to try to unravel with you on this episode.
But they are killing both the infected and the non infected
with an an ease and and a sort of joy and kind of enjoying the
role as these these killers and Spike is trapped amongst them.
And we start the movie with him and we'll get to that that plot
point in a second. And he watches the jimmies
throughout the movie as they kind of like do this religious
recruitment evangelical but for Satan machine thing where they
are basically. Creating out jimmies.
Creating suffering for other people and treating out jimmies
possibly along the way. And so instead of helping the
people at the end of the world, they're actually trying to make
it worse to punish it as I think a way to get a sort of revenge
against the the infection itself.
That's how I kind of read it, which is an interesting way to,
I think, frame it. Yeah, I felt like they were more
so like desensitized, like adult children kind of growing up in
this particular environment where violence is like this
norm. And they don't really like, like
the world is kind of like gamified in a really twisted way
to them. But yeah, we'll we'll definitely
talk more about the Jimmies. Yeah, I I think the movie, The
movie is having a conversation with itself.
We keep repeating this, but I think it's important to come
back to about how people respond to the end of the world.
Either they try to blame it and punish it and mythologize it by
ritualizing whatever the choices are and trying to create
traditions out of them. And these jimmies are like,
we're creating horror as revenge for our loss of innocence.
And we will live in that past life of innocence rude these pop
cultural references, but we will not let anybody else live a life
of innocence as a result. And I think that's what Jimmy
Crystal represents. On the other hand, we have Ian
Kelson, who's like, I'm going to self medicate, dance with the
zombies, listen to Duran Duran in my bunker at the night time
and try to read books on the ethics of medicine.
Because I still think even though this world doesn't feel
like it deserves to be saved, I want to save it.
I think that is what the movie is contending with, which speaks
to the larger themes of the last film about isolationism and
nationalism and and, you know, suggestions or implications of
the world of being a metaphor for like Brexit, at least we're
we're on the island and what that might symbolize.
So those are basically the stories that are running
parallel with one another. Yeah, there's not a lot, right,
Like when you just like that's it talk about like what the plot
is doing. But it's so fun and how it
really like we get to spend so much time with the characters in
a lot of like non zombie heavy moments.
Like it subverts our idea of of what the zombie movie is going
to be. Where do you want to start
first? Where did you like?
Which store did you like being in the most?
Like we start the movie off with the jimmies in the sort of kind
of ceremony like scene of introducing Spike into the group
or having him fight one of the jimmies.
I mean, I it's hard because I enjoyed being with the Ray finds
part of the story more because I love Ray finds but and I find
him like so warmly funny here. But I think the Jimmies, I was
like, always wanting to go back to them.
And I think the movie is aware of that and uses both storylines
to like, add, like, suspense to, OK, we're going to come back to
this. And the Jimmies were, like,
always a shocking new introduction of the way that
they structure their lives or Sir Jimmy Crystal is structuring
their lives. And so I think I was like always
kind of like what is happening with the Jimmies.
And I guess there's two mysteries too, because you're
like, how much do the jimmies actually believe in their own
self mythologizing and their rituals?
And also, how much do we believe that Samson is going to be able
to become, you know, a hybrid human zombie that Dr. Ian Kelson
is trying to turn him into? So I guess you're you're
thinking about those questions while just enjoying the stories
as they are. And you're also wondering, how
are these two stories going to blend together toward the end if
that is what they choose to do? Which happens seamlessly and the
most epic concert ever. It's amazing.
I it was probably my favorite scene in the movie.
We'll get there, but I think it's interesting.
Yeah. I, I thought that, you know, the
way that we were going with the jimmies, we were going to have
them happen upon the bone temple.
And like, I thought maybe Samson would save, you know, Doctor Ian
Kelson or and then at at some point that they would
essentially try to kill, you know, Kelson.
And that would be the kind of like what would be expected of a
horror movie. And the way that this operates
is is so different and amazing. I think we should start with the
jimmies because they are the the most interesting weird creation
of this movie. Yeah, a fucked up unique
creation, certainly that Garland already put in the end of last
the end of the last movie. Are you sad not to have seen the
same tone from the end of Part 1 where they're introduced as if
they are the Power Rangers? Like because we don't really.
Get anything else? Like that?
There's nothing as bizarre as that in this movie.
Not in. For the jimmies at least, the
Jimmy's plot. Yeah, like they don't have, I
guess a particular scene where we're like they're being framed
in a pop cultural. Like, like we're.
Watching a live action cartoon or something?
Yeah, but I, I will say that I think like just that
introduction and also like the Teletubbies being all that we
know about them going into this movie really was interesting
because I was like, oh, OK, Sarah, Jeremy Crystal really
took the Teletubbies, you know, lore to heart and that he was
like, I'm going to become that sun baby.
Like, that's me. I'm going to decide when they
wake up. Like, I don't actually like,
remember everything about the Teletubbies, but I I know that
they are living in isolation. They have a little, a Little
Rock they live under New news there, the vacuum.
They have their own Dr. Ian Kelson like underground home.
That's true, they have a bunker. They have TV's on their bellies.
They do that, show them images or videos of kids playing, but
human beings don't exist in this Teletubby universe.
So that suggests that the Teletubbies live in this post
apocalyptic it's true world I guess, which could be Earth.
Or like a utopia. Or it's heaven.
It's a heaven like space. But but yeah, anyway, I was, I
think like the the idea of him watching that when we're first
introduced to him and thinking that and having a a father who's
also a priest who was welcoming the infected as like his
children. He's like, this is the rapture.
Yeah, we're starting over. Yeah.
So, so that aspect of it and then also, you know, the we, we
got some clues in in this first scene that we meet Jimmy in in
the first movie where which you pointed out that he opens the
door when he's told not to by his mother to let the zombies in
to kill all the children and. Yeah, which he which we hear him
retell that in a fictional way to Dr. Ian Kelson at the end of
this Part 2 movie where he was like my sisters and my mother
should have hit it like I did in the church with my father.
And instead they got killed. But really, we know that he let
the zombies in as a boy that killed his siblings as he ran to
the church and tried to save himself, which is kind of a
theme of a through line of these movies.
Because if anybody remembers 28 Weeks later, that movie starts
off with the the main, the main character man father figure
basically sacrificing his wife to get away.
So these movies comment on like a toxic masculinity that's about
self preservation quite often. Yeah, and and Jimmy takes that
to like a further extent even then, you know, like sacrificing
your wife in 28 weeks later. He's like, I'm going to like
make sure that I'm OK to the point where I'm going to become
someone's God. I'm going to mix what I learned
from my daddy and mix what I isn't what he says.
He's like, that was going to meet my Wait, does he call him
daddy? I don't know.
I like that you called him Daddy.
Anyway, religious daddy and then he's like, also, I'm going to,
you know, mix that with what I learned from the Teletubbies and
like the sun baby. And I love that the the kind of
like bright sun baby is also like just as bright as Jimmy's
hair. I don't think that was like a
connection Alex Garland necessarily made, but maybe
unconsciously, you know, subconsciously that was there
because he's like, I'm going to be what the seven fingers see
and I'm going to be basically manipulating their reality.
And anyway, it's a really like fun, interesting taking.
Also some like notes from Tinky Winky of having like a red
purse. I feel like the tiara is
adjacent to that that that Jimmy is wearing.
So anyway, I just love this whole kind of like mishmash of
like this strange ass, like, you know, God figure, manipulative
manipulative figure in what we can understand were children who
were traumatized and probably also their their parents eaten
by zombies and turn into zombies themselves.
And the way that that then comes into a conversation with like
belief and, and, and faith, almost like when he ends up
meeting Doctor Kelson. Yeah.
And also the ways in which certain text, if taken a
fundamentalist journey with certain text or relationship
relationship to certain text can basically turn you into these
like dogmatic extreme individuals.
And I think that's even in the dress or the the costumes.
Of that's a question, where did they get these track suits?
Like where do they? Because it's not like they made
them. They're not like, weirdly put
together. Were they in fashion in 2000
when the outbreak took place? I mean, there were definitely.
Yeah, like juicy, right? Like matching track suits.
There was a big track suit movement around that time.
So maybe that's true. But like, I, I want to see it
just as they're adding jimmies to their kind of Jimmy group.
You don't know what to call the fingers as they're adding
fingers, right, or replacing them.
Are they also going through everyone's home and dressers to
make sure that they can find matching track suits?
Because like that was, I was like, where did they get these?
Let's talk more about the Jimmy's through the story.
So we open up. We open up in the pool, a
children's pool I think. Yeah, it I think it's, I mean,
you know, Jimmy's coming. It's a really fun opening where
we go to this like abandoned water indoor water park that it
says like no children beyond this point, right?
And we're like, OK, Jimmy's coming here obviously.
And and we go over and have this like really, you know, zoom out
shot of the deep end and it it reminds you of like again, we
talked about how 28 years later Part 1 was surprisingly this
coming of age story for Spike and where we thought it would
maybe focus on like Aaron Taylor Johnson or refines more.
And here like we kind of start out there too, right?
We see Spike being circled by all the jimmies in essentially
like the deep end of the pool. Right.
This is sort of like the evil coming of age story.
It's like an end of innocence story.
Yeah, it's like you're just like watching a bullying scene.
Basically, yeah, Spike. Spike is in the deep end of the
pool. We have these stunted adults
dressed up as these. I think they're dressed up as a
a British child predator that I don't really know much about
this kind of like iconic cultural figure that they would
have mapped onto as children because I think he ran ATV show
for kids. Yeah.
So some fucked up subjects. About yeah, their figure.
Yeah, and he's bullying them. Yeah, they're, I guess they're
bullying Spike, these jimmies. And Sir Jimmy is sitting in his
yellow lifeguard, his throne like a king, and Spike is going
to fight to the death with one of these jimmies.
And yeah, the seven fingers are just kind of like egging the
main Jimmy on to fight Spike, and then Spike nails one of the
arteries of the jimmies. Yeah, well, at first I like how
they open this tension wise because the the way that we kind
of like have all the jimmies like laughing and hearing like
kind of the hyena laughs that feel really strange and make you
unsettled like that was adding to to your fear for Spike.
But also you're like, how serious is this though?
Right. Like are people going to die?
I know last movie I did see the Jimmy's like power Ranger style,
saw torture the infected and like take pleasure out of like
beating them to death. So like I know what they're
capable of, but I didn't know how much danger Spike was in in
that moment. Like, you know, we've seen other
movies where it's like a Jimmy figure would be like, OK, like,
let's stop fighting, right? And I like that we get an
immediate like artery, right, cut from Spike, which we know
that he has survival skills that he's learned from his father.
So like he probably knew where that artery was.
That's cool. And then the the really kind of
like gory, just like blood, right, shooting out and Jimmy
being like, we're not going to save him.
Like this is how it works. Well, it's also just like a
common experience with every new horror film that I think horror
fans or non horror fans, you know, have, which is that how
far is this horror movie going to go?
And when you're seeing a bunch of adults like kind of look like
they're about to brutalize this child, you're like, how far is
this going to go? And it is a scary question and
it constantly gives you anxiety. And so there's something
inherent to horror films of this horror films nature of being
like, we are going to be a little bit gory.
We're going to be a little bit transgressive and we're being a
little weird too. So anything's really possible.
And it's kind of clear to me in this moment where we watch this
guy bleed out and the crew is like asking if they can help.
And Sir Jimmy's like, Nah, this is these were the rules.
And I'm like, well this is weird fucking.
Movie. Exactly.
It's like.
And then they walk out together and you said it was like they're
on a field trip together. Exactly, It was like watching
children, you know, if you've ever seen like a a field trip in
the city or something like 2 two of them were like holding hands,
like skipping and then like walking and Jamima has her, you
know, like butterfly wings on and she just like takes a little
detour from the group walking in a like a single file.
Not Matilda Madeline line where she scalps and infected and then
is holding its scalp. I thought that's what she was
doing to. The front of the line to to head
Sir Jimmy Crystal. And so like that was just it's
just so weird. Like it reminds me of like it.
It really merged genres of what we're going to talk about in a
second. The home invasion, you know,
genre or subgenre with this, this kind of like folk horror,
like a Wicker Man situation. So Spike takes the wig that's
thrown at him, he becomes a Jimmy.
He's initiated. And again, I walked into this
movie thinking it was going to be Spike's film or continuation
of his coming of age journey. But it's really not because we
immediately jumped to Dr. Ian Kelson and his of the second
story of this movie, The other subplot, and we start right
where we left off in the 1st, 28 years later, I think, where he's
dragging the pregnant woman's body off of the train and he's
singing to himself, I think. Girls on film.
Yeah, which I you pointed this out.
You're like, he's singing girls on film.
And like, I love that they played it later in the bunker so
everyone could, like, get the joke for those of us who like
didn't immediately recognize it. But I I loved that scene.
And Samson hears him singing, we see Ian clock him and basically
starts testing the boundaries of how physically close they can
get to one another. And he sedates him with the
tranquilizer, which will come back as a way that he medicate
Samson and himself throughout the next hour and a half of this
movie. And you're watching this like,
OK, I get the moral center of this film, which is that we have
Jimmy and we have the anti Jimmy, which is Dr. Ian.
And we see that when we go back to Doctor Ian Kelson's bunker
that he has all these books that he's been working on and
reading. I love the small detail of his
like iodine staining all the the pages that he's like been
pouring over during his time. I guess just alone.
Yes, and we get to basically see him in his isolation, which is
like really depressing. He's just sitting there naked on
his bed listening to music quietly and just has books all
around him and is just lonely, but he is dedicating his life to
this disease, or virus rather. And then we cut to the farm,
which is the farm is the most brutal sequence of this movie.
It is basically this little self-sustaining family unit out
in the woods. And we basically are following
this group of three that turns into a group of two as they
return home. And as those two walk in,
everybody seems kind of shocked. I think they say that we have
visitors and the Jimmies are at the table serving the people, or
at least the people in the house are serving the jimmies.
This goes to, I think, the point you were making about the home
invasion stuff, where it feels like the strangers, it feels
like Funny Games. It feels like Jimmy the main
Jimmy Jack O'Connell, at the end of every sentence, he might slit
someone's throat. So you're just constantly tense,
and O'connell's just nailing this.
Sort of like Keith Ledger as Joker, but in a rated R horror
gore movie where you're just unclear of the stakes of the
situation. And basically they try to get to
know the people that they're about to murder, and they're
like, have you guys seen the Teletubbies?
You're missing out. They have like specific
Teletubby episodes that they're talking about.
Like this is the last shared kind of like cultural moment,
like the Teletubbies is a text to them in more ways than one.
And they also like, you know, have Jamina do that dipsy dance,
which is like they're just, you know, Jimmy Crystal is just like
playing with his food here, kind of, you know, it's.
That's a good way to frame it, yeah.
He's like, oh, you know, sorry, we got off on the wrong foot.
And he's like, let us introduce ourselves.
And just like everything about what they're doing is, is in the
vein of trying to scare the people they're about to
terrorize even more. So like, we think that this is
the extent, right? Like I thought that when he
says, you know, well, we're we're going to leave, but not
until we kill you first. And that right then I was like,
OK, as I'm watching, you know, the guy who I'm assuming was the
partner of the pregnant woman. Take this like boiling pot of
water and throw it over Jimmy or the Jimmies.
And we see this like struggle kind of break out and they're
they're trying to kill the people in the house who are
living there. I just thought, OK, they just
like kill people, take things they need and leave.
I did not realize we were going into like an even more
terrifying part of this. Oh yeah, it gets really bad.
It's basically the worst thing you can imagine.
Yeah, it is really interesting. I think it's going to be part of
my extra credit of this movie and it's screen writing here of
how we have Dr. Ian Kelson and we have Jimmy Crystal, who are
both performing their trauma and ritualizing their trauma, but in
different perspectives. Going back to that point, I
brought up at the top where Ian Kelson is creating like a bone
temple as this like tradition to honor those who have passed.
As to say that when those die, it also is a way to kind of give
like basically is a rebirth sort of.
And he looks at those lives lost as something to to honor, even
though he is atheist as established in the movie or
secular. And I find that fascinating that
he is like, OK with that ritualizing of death.
And then you, it was just beautiful.
And then you have Jimmy, who is like, I'm going to perform as I
am the devil, the devil's son rather, which is just
fascinating. Everyone has to have a purpose,
you know? Well, it's fascinating when
those two things merge because Dr. Ian Kelson becomes the
bigger person, if you will, the real humanist where he's like,
OK, you're going to do this like theatre, art or performance
through your trauma. Well, I'm going to outdo your
own performance and I'm going to become the devil that you fear.
And I'm going to blow drugs in your face and give you the
worst, you know, trip, but also the best concert that you've
ever had. Anyways, I think it's a really
interesting through line to like intellectualize for a couple
hours that I'm sure many podcasts will do like ours.
But yeah, so they're basically like, are you going to leave?
He's like, we'll leave, but we're going to kill you first.
They go out to the barn and they basically say, I forget the
language they use, but they're like we're going to remove your
trouser. No, we're going to remove your
SO. Basically like this is where we
get the setup of the seven fingers.
And the charity? The the charity right that they
are spreading their charity to the land and Jimmy does this
kind of like sermon and all the Jimmies are sitting in the barn
wall. The three people they capture or
four people they captured are tied up and he's like basically,
you know, talking about Saint Nick, who in for from a like an
American lens. I thought that this was possibly
like Santa Claus that they were worshipping in the vein of the
Teletubby kind of thing. I didn't realize immediately
that he was talking about Satan. And so then the seven fingers he
he kind of sets up and then he talks about like the charity
that we're going to like take your shirts.
And I think we immediately turn to each other like, are they
going to skin them alive? Like would they do that?
That seems like really intense. That's it.
Like this is not where this movie feels like it's going.
And the skinning is mostly off screen, they show like 1 flap of
skin being skinned but the post skinning was as bad.
Honestly, as watching the skinning, I don't think I've
ever seen anything quite like that.
And we should say they also put on these like purge coated masks
that are very full core coated. Yeah, like sewn in teeth and
shoelaces. Yeah, which sort of remind me of
like the hockey Jason Voorhee masks of the people on the
island. And 20 years later Part 1 just
to create a through line of this kind of tribalism that Garland
continues to comment on this later part of his career as he
moves from his like fatalistic interests of this late
capitalist society that we're in with Ex Machina and Annihilation
and now with men in civil war and warfare.
And now these screenplays, he's like, look at the ways in which
we create these rituals around our for tribes.
I found out to be a fascinating thing to be fascinated by
because it's not really my interest.
But it's interesting to see someone like Garland dedicate
this large chapter of his life to those ideas.
Definitely. So we should say normally we we
might have said this at the top and normally we hate this kind
of weird, indulgent gore horror. We don't watch the Terrifier
movies. We don't like the soft films.
Well, we don't like it when it's torture porn.
Focus. I should say that, yeah, it's
not like I'm like, these are deeply problematic, problematic
or whatever. Like I find them to be kind of
cringe inducing because yeah, they feel almost fetishistic
about like, the camera being obsessed with the ways that
people are getting killed. Like the movie enjoys torturing
people when movies enjoy torturing people.
I find that to be just off putting in any way, especially
when it comes to like, physical harm.
But for whatever reason, this movie did not feel like that.
It was just very upsetting. The sequence was very upsetting
and brutal and disgusting, but it did not feel like the movie
was not enjoying what it was doing to people.
Right. Yeah, It was in focus on their
torture. It was more so focused on the
lengths that the jimmies would go to to I guess fulfill their
role as a finger like. And and I think, you know, in in
the terms of the Alex Garland project, which we've talked a
bunch about on Patreon, we've done like deep dives on our
living plus like paid portion. We have a free kind of deep dive
of our Civil War episode. I think we spent a long time
like talking about his project on that episode.
Right. Complicated episode.
Yeah, it is there for free members.
Yeah, available if you want to sign up for free.
But I mean, he continues to come back to these things even within
just the 28th right, Like project he in the first movie is
focused on this isolationist, like kind of nationalism theme
with the island and and kind of like the justification that they
make in terms of protecting themselves and and what they're
willing to do in order to survive.
But also like the myths that they build about themselves and
like their warriors, right? That the kind of like rituals
that are in the vein of like self survival, but actually like
have a lot of like violence connected to them, right?
If we're looking at this like what the island means
symbolically in the first movie. And then he's obviously
interested in this theme as well.
We talked about like the 28 weeks, but it's more so stronger
and 28 days later where we have like the military.
Right. And what they are essentially
willing to, to put blinders on for as well, or, or think that
they need in order to survive and who they're willing to
follow and who gets outed. Like you could imagine, like
there's the one military figure in 28 Days Later that is kind of
like a Kelly figure here, right? Who is still like following as a
Jimmy because this is survival still, you know, join the
military for some reason, right? There's some like benefits there
that they're grappling with. I forgot about that character.
Right. And and so Kelly feels like
parallel here with that. But regardless, like I think
yes, the the movie is less focused on that that torture.
It's just that the torture is an example and it's still really
brutal and and showing it in a horror movie and really fucked
up. But it's more so in service of
like, showing us an exaggerated Teletubby version of this dogma
that, like Garland, continues to come back to.
Well said. And they also have just like
good, you know, if you're not trying to intellectualize the
the gore horror of it all and you're just trying to wonder how
much these jimmies are actually kind of deluded into believing
that what they're doing is actual charity that will allow
them to live and an eternity. And with their devil, they're
saying where Decosta adds this layer where you notice and it's
in the directing where you start noticing all these scars and
upside down crosses on the faces of the jimmies.
And I think it's suggested that all the jimmies are survivors of
charities because they have one of the people in the farm not be
skinned and instead witness the skinning.
And then he has to fight or choose to fight one of the
jimmies. He picks the the woman on the
ground who he thinks looks weak or innocent because he might be
able to kill her. Turns out she's the.
Freakiest. Wildest one.
OK, wait, yeah, I want to talk about that sequence in a second.
But you're right. I'd already put together that
Jimmy like plot wise is replacing other Jimmies.
And so like that registered for me like just from a logical
standpoint, like Oh yeah, like he is.
But I didn't really think about how all the fingers that are
currently in the Jimmy Gang are like have this like past trauma
of watching whoever their found family is receive the charity.
Like I didn't attach that to each of the the Jimmy's
backstories. Yeah, so therefore they have
this toxic dynamic with Jimmy himself the main.
Jimmy yeah, like he let them live.
I I noticed too that he picked like the person who seemed the
youngest and and like strongest that.
No, he he straight up did want to build the team.
He was just like, we're going to do an Oklahoma drill to figure
this out. OK yeah.
So we meet Kelly, who is a little bit.
There's a they're kind of like flickers of humanity in the
direction of Kelly. The actresses Aaron Aaron
Kellyman, who's pretty good in this movie as one of the fingers
who seems like she sympathizes with spikes discomfort, though
she sort of believes in the mythos of the Satanist and her
satanic Colt. And she kind of recognizes some
of the bullshit of Jimmy Crystal, which she definitely,
you know, addresses later in the film.
At one point in this movie we skipped over how she went to go
see Ray Finds or she was on some kind of journey to go catch up
to the pregnant woman, I think. Yeah, I think that she is like
the most trusted Jimmy from Jimmy Crystal is like, 'cause he
let her go out on her own. Yeah, that was like my, my read.
But because she's I forget exactly what she was sent out to
do. But I love when she's like, you
are fucking shitting me. Like what am I watching right
now when she Ray? Finds is dancing with.
Alpha, which I thought that she was just like, wow, this is a
there's a person who's dancing with an alpha infected.
But I didn't realize at this point that she was like, that is
Satan. That's that's the devil with his
demons. Yeah, which is hilarious.
So we get to the kind of to pivot to the next last, I think
best stretch of the movie. Jimmy is like, OK, we have to go
meet Saint Nick after the barn burns down and a few of his
jimmies are killed. I think it's a few of them and
we see our boy Alfie Williams as Spike try to escape with a
pregnant woman. She's like fuck you, punches him
in the gut, he comes back, Jimmy really wants to kill him.
I didn't like how Alfie, I thought Alfie was going to be a
tad bit stronger in this movie. That would be like my 1 nitpick
with the character because they did show us that he survived in
the forest in the epilogue at the end of Part 1 for like 30
days on his own or 28 days, whatever it was.
And I was like, oh, he's becoming quote UN quote, a man,
right? Like he this is his kind of
coming of age journey to become an adult.
And I kind of like that idea. But he didn't really have a lot
of character growth in this film to me.
Or like literal just like bad ass growth that I thought he'd
be a little bit more of a survivor if that makes sense.
That makes sense. I think they positioned him like
that in the first one. But I do like that he is just
kind of like terrified because this is actually really strange.
Like this is one of the the Wilder groups to to be a part
of. And he's just like, how can I
get out of this? And really doesn't know how to
do it at all, which it is more so like, yes, you're right.
I think just like plot wise in terms of the character that we
are introduced to in the first movie, I did expect him to be
have more survival instincts, But I like that we go on what
kind of like what we talked about in terms of what we liked
in part one, that it wasn't this like really traditional like
coming of age movie, right? It's like this kid doesn't want
to like he's he's seeing that his dad's full of shit, right?
And like lying about how he is this like fearless warrior and
more so gravitates towards his mom and and.
He's sensitive. Yeah, and, and he like wants to
do what's right and, and more so gravitates towards like Doctor
Kelson and his warmth and kindness and kind of like his
perspective. So I, I feel like I, it's
believable now that I have the whole picture.
But yes, like I agree. Yeah, I guess it makes sense
because they're trying to make a point that those who live
through the actual apocalypse of the zombie outbreak, the
infection outbreak, they are truly like now, survivors for
life. And they're always going to be a
little bit fucked up. From Aaron Taylor Johnson being
a tiny bit fucked up to the Jimmies of the world being very
fucked up to even Doctor Kelson, who's kind of lost his mind is
in its own way, even if it's more like beautiful way verse
this new generation who were born in a post apocalypse where
they actually have kind of just normalized the craziness around
them where they actually haven't lived through too many, I guess
traumatic events. And I guess our character's main
traumatic event is that he went to go rescue his mother or, you
know, take her to a doctor, and she was killed.
Yeah, OR, and RSC, you know, I, I feel like Eric kind of has
some like connective threads with the Jimmy's.
You know, he's a little bit more like desensitized and he's
willing to kill Spike and his mom for picking up the what he
thinks is like an infected baby. And we have that whole like that
kind of he he, you know, experienced like the Internet
and he was like, oh, wait, you don't know what like online is.
Oh wait, you don't know what like Amazon is.
He has an apathy or an indifference that the movie is
trying to posit. There's that the jimmies are so
fucked up as these like fundamentalist cultist.
And then the real life people outside of the the virus are
more fucked up than the actual infected themselves, which is
like an interesting classic, you know, zombie trope in these
stories where you meet people who are survivors and they're a
little bit more fucked in the fucked up than the actual
infected, which is. Interesting, which I also think
Garland was doing with paralleling the pregnant women
that we meet because we go from seeing the pregnant infected and
then and kind of like Samson's relationship to her and how
Kelson, like, you know, thinks of the infected versus everyone
else. And then a woman who's in the
barn who ends up killing Jemima, right?
She's also pregnant and basically that visual, just
like, you know, maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Maybe people are just pregnant in this space.
But I think it makes sense in terms of like paralleling like
the people in the world who are living the jimmies, right with
like what they're willing to do and the basically they are.
You should be more afraid of them than like the the infected.
Which is always a a trope in these stories that works for me.
I think that's always a powerful metaphor going to the most
important scene of the movie. This is what I was talking
about, the last great kind of chapter of this film, when Ian
and Jimmy Crystal meet and Jimmy's like, are you my dad?
And Ian's like I am called Ian. Well, no.
First, he's like Nick, like St. Yeah, you Saint Nick.
Yeah. And and then he's like, no, I'm
called, yeah, I'm called Ian. And then he's like, wait, can we
just like back up a second 'cause like I know Saint Nick is
like supposed to be tricky, you know?
Like are you? Are you messing with?
Me. Why are you painted red?
Yeah. And Kelson is like really just
welcoming and even though you, he is on alert, right?
Yeah, he's not. He's not like, dumb.
Or thing. Yeah, but he, so he, he's kind
of like trying to figure out what is going on here and if
this person is someone he needs to be worried about.
And I, I just absolutely think that O'connell's performance
here is like, like one of the funniest things I've seen in in
so long where he's like, Oh my God, I was sweating.
Like I thought I was going to meet my dad.
It's hard to describe because he's so sadistic and fucked up,
but you're kind of like there's this strange aura of charisma
around the his physical performance, the way he moves.
There is just a like self-confidence that is hard to
deny in the way that O'Connell is playing Jimmy Crystal where
he literally believes I am the son of of a deity or something.
But yeah, when he's like, I thought I was going to meet my
father and he's like, Oh my God, that was great.
And then also the exchange there where he is like, OK, so you're
an atheist, right? And then Ray finds is like, Yep,
I'm an atheist, you're a Satanist.
And then, oh, God, I was like, glad we like figured that one
out. And then when they get to the,
the water, they're just like sitting there.
And essentially, you know, Doctor Ian Kelson is acting as
Jimmy's therapist, which he's needed for years now.
And I, I love when, when Jimmy's like, you know, can we cut a
deal here? Because I like you, and I don't
think I've ever liked anyone. Yes.
I love that one. And we Start learning that
because you're again, you're still wondering at this point in
the film, how much of Jimmy's bullshit does he believe in?
Is this is the myth making of Saint Nick and the fingers as
his apostles? Is this like all a coping
mechanism? Is it a power mechanism?
Because people his jimmies are dropping right?
Like 1 was just killed in the forest.
Him and Kelly, I think that's her name.
Get into it a little bit and he you could tell.
Because, like, yeah, Spike tries to escape and then Kelly goes to
save him and lies. Yeah.
And you can tell he's worried like Jimmy Crystal is, and he's
thinking. And so that you're wondering,
even when he goes to talk to Ian and they do the therapy thing
where he was like, tell me about your dad.
And he's like, no, why don't you tell me about your dad?
And you're thinking, OK, how much does Jimmy believe in?
And that's when he tells the story of, you know, you realize
he is still a traumatized kid as this adult and he's mythologized
and fictionalized the worst moment of his life where he, I
think by accident, realized subconsciously whatever Mis
remembers the prologue that we watched in the 1st 28 years
where he basically led to the the death of his siblings, you
know, his six sisters or whatever it is, or Seven
Sisters, his original, I guess you know what he thought maybe
in his mind, his apostles, his Teletubbies.
And going back to your point about the commentary in these
films that's so powerful from Garland in the 1st 28 years
later we see how myth making and storytelling is inherited from
Spike's clan to his family and to him, and how storytelling is
how that island culture made sense of its a dangerous world.
And in the Bone Temple, they continue it by exploring this
danger of self mythologizing to a violent degree, where the
dangers of myths and how corruptible they are become very
real as we see Jimmy inherited this myth as a son of a Saint
Nick, a son of some kind of like powerful deity figure as to not
reflect on what he did, you know, maybe to his siblings or
what he let happen rather, or what happened to this world and
why he continues to try to punish it.
And it's fascinating because in the 1st 28 years later movie, we
pivot from something in this movie we stopped doing.
You know, there's a lot less experimental cinematography
going on in this movie. It's a lot more kind of like
just regular kind of still shots, a lot of good editing
that is different from the first movie.
But there's not this interstitial imagery of like a
post war Britain or movies about the building of the British
Empire. But we had all that in the first
film and it really spoke to this idea of the island being
symbolic of an isolationist, you know, island nation being
England and the kind of cultish, cultish obsessions with royalty
and traditions as we see a a painting of of the queen above
where they eat in the on the island.
And I imagine that there's going to be a through line in this
trilogy in the third movie where we get more of the masked people
in the halls that we saw in quick snapshots of in the first
film. And I'm assuming Aaron Taylor
Johnson's character and his relationship to this island is
going to be a symbolic of Spike's journey to realizing
that he just met these crazy kooky conservatives and that he
realizes that, oh, my family are also kooky conservative like
nationalists. I think that's going to be the
the, the kind of through line of the, the origins of tribalism
and fascism is just him going to him seeing these ways that
people self mythologize as to not reflect on their bad
behavior. I guess I think that'll be so.
Yeah, I mean, we have to go back to meet the baby that was
dropped off at the door, Zombie. Baby, Yeah.
But to finish out the the Jimmy plot line here, you know, Doctor
Ian Kelson is asked to play the devil so that way Jimmy can keep
up his Rep with his fingers and they can go on spreading
charity. And we have Kelson, you know,
essentially, like, agree. And then he's like setting up a
party, you know? That is basically.
What it's like lights up on his temple.
He's got a speaker system. Which I absolutely love.
You know, when when Jimmy first walks into the Bone Temple, he's
like terrified because it is actually a terrifying space and
and he's like, but like, what's up?
So OK, you're not Satan, but what's up with all this?
Like these bones, like you just like kill all these people.
But regardless, so Ray finds understands, you know the
assignment. And by the way, there's a lot of
great shooting in the cinematography were the comedic
elements like the zoom outs, the zoom insurance, like when he's
like, well, who are all these people?
And it zooms out to all the schools.
Like there's so many good moments like that.
Or like when Ian and Samson are laying in the the going from
like the barn shit to them laying in the grass doing drugs.
Like just really good comedic timing in the editing that I
want to shout out. Yes, I totally agree.
And then we we have like Jimmy Wright, we're preparing his his
fingers for the saying, Hey, like, you know, I'm the only one
who can talk to him. What's set out these rules.
We also have Kelly in this moment where we find out that
she does believe in the Satan finger fingers whole thing and
she's like, don't you think like the the drop is?
Don't you think, like Jimmy Crystal's like, full of shit?
Like, let's find out if he's actually the son of.
Right. She's like, he's a false
prophet, but I still believe in the the God, if you will.
Yeah. And Alfie's like, well, Spike is
like, fuck yeah. Because I think he thought that
Kelly understood, you know? And then and then he's like, Oh,
no. So, So anyway, then we get the
jimmies all showing up at night time in the bone temple all lit
up. And I love how it kind of, you
know, we keep talking about this as a weird like fucked up coming
of age journey for Spike. I feel like we get like a coming
of age image where they're in this like really unknown palace
that's scary and they're lined up in like, you know, this
horizontal line walking into it together.
I just like how they're like playing with that, that kind of.
Iconography of normal coming of age movies, yeah.
And then they're going in and what happens first?
This is my favorite scene of the whole movie.
Well, this is the upside down cross in the ground and you the
the great part of this sequence is the performance from Jack
O'Connell. It is the absurdity of the set
in the theater that Ray finds his character.
Dr. Ian is set up with all these lights and all the bones and the
fire and the speaker system that's playing the the rock song
with the 666 in it. But it's also Jack O'Connell
reacting to just like, how just. He's like impressed with just
like how. Much he committed to the bit
with, yeah, the commitment to the theatricality of what it
would be to perform this, this level of like dogma, I guess.
And it's just interesting to watch O'Connell balance that
line between still needing the audience still needs to believe
that he believes the devil. He is the son of the devil, but
also believes that Dr. Ian is doing a great job in faking
everybody else out except him, not faking him out.
So I think a lot of the comedy comes from his reaction and just
Ray finds like doing the whole like, I am the devil now.
And he's dressed up in a leather jacket.
I love to look he. Black eyes and his black mouth
like the black mouth paint. He has like a leather jacket on
with buckles on it. He's like as he's approaching
them, he set up a sound system that has like surround sound in
the bone temple and he's like contorting his body crawling
towards them. And he starts, yeah, he starts
singing. He's like, it's amazing stage
dancing. It blows drugs into.
The stage jumping, blowing drugs into their face, they all
continue to throw up and then immediately proceed to rock out
and lose their minds. And this is where we get to talk
about our theater experience. It was fucking insane being in
the theater with a packed crowd of like, you could tell 20 to 25
people, including myself, who are a long, you know, time 28
days heads and you could tell there are newer 28 days heads
like yourself. And then there were just people
there to see the movie and early screening.
But everybody based on the sound of the theater, it sounded like
everybody was like in on the laughter, on the gasping, on the
shouting. I think one guy was like let's
go or something. Like that, yeah, at the end when
the concert kind of like cuts out because it's, it really like
sweeps you up. You're so in it.
And then right after the music cuts, someone was like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody was laughing at the
end of a song, and I was like the communal experience of going
to a theater and everybody collectively enjoying the movie.
Yeah. And honestly, that scene might
break some people. It reminded me of the Sinners
sequence of the kind of multiple.
I don't want to spoil this if you haven't seen Sinners, but so
I guess spoiler alert for that movie if you have not seen it.
So Fast forward 15 seconds, but of the the sequence of the
multiple generations of music being played at once, that is
very trippy, kind of surreal sequence that is also like
pretty provocative in terms of breaking the film mold in the
film language of the movie at that point.
So this is not like that completely because that's far
more ambitious thematically and and visually and sonically.
But this there was an element of this being sort of breaking that
4th wall and bringing the audience into the movie that I
felt was like like kind of almost equally satisfying where
I was like, oh, we get to enjoy the greatness of movie making
together. They're very There aren't many
movies that allow you to do this.
Yeah, and I think also like the comedy that what it the movie
just wasn't afraid to go for and how like Dacosta captured all of
this to make us feel like it was just like an electric concert
performance from this devil. And and you're right, like
cutting back to Jack O'Connell, like being in disbelief that he
was able to pull this off, but also have Ray funds commit so,
so much was like amazing. But it reminded me of, I was
thinking, I think that's a great comp, but I was thinking of, you
know, how Barbarian like our theater reacted to the Jason
Long character, which I won't spoil Barbarian.
I feel like if you're probably listening to a 28 years podcast,
you've you've seen Barbarian since it came out a little bit
ago. But like that whole comedy that
was introduced in the measuring scenes to to not give anything
away like that, that comedy that breaks the tone, sort of.
Of the movie. That's what I was like thinking
of in, in terms of how our theater like just reacted to
that. Yeah, it also reminded me of
Lapita Nuongo at the end of us doing the ballet with like her.
Again, I don't want to spoil another great horror film, but
there are there are many moments in the greatest horror films of
the last 10 years that have like postmodern references that then
allow you as an audience to like point at the screen and be like,
I understand that reference to then get to the end of the story
and now be like totally immersed into what is happening in this
meta experience. It's a very unique, like subset
of horror films that I've been able to capitalize on that and
be ambitious and bold enough to do that, and thankfully to Costa
does that here. I also don't think it's a
coincidence that some of the greatest horror films with the
most kind of stylized like provocative and big and
ambitious energy are coming from film makers of color who
traditionally have not had access to make movies in this
industry. Where you have Jordan Peele,
Ryan Coogler, now NIA Dacosta being the the very few black
film makers who are allowed to operate or give given access to
operate 50 million plus dollar budgets.
And they're showing people what non white artists are willing to
do in this medium because they they have not been traditionally
or historically given the access to be in this medium where there
is a little bit of like a it's not a fuck you energy, because
that's something I often say, but it's more of like, I'm do,
I'm just going to do it all. Like everything I've ever wanted
to do, I'm going to put it on screen.
And it's far more exciting than just the, I think the the
conventions of typical formula filmmaking, formulaic filmmaking
today from usually white artists.
I just want to throw that out there because I don't think it's
a coincidence that that's happening.
Anyways, incredible sequence. And you can see it from
O'connell's character, Jimmy Crystal, who's looking at the
toward the end of this performance from Ray Fines.
He's sort of getting a little bit annoyed where Fines has
hijacked a little bit too much of his steam and power.
Or he's like, you're doing my belief system and creating a
better show out of it. You're doing my ideology in a
more entertaining way, and you're taking my power and
making it more theatrical where it's kind of irritating me.
Like, yeah, so I thought that was really funny.
It felt, it also felt like a within the Alex Garland project,
very similar to watching like Oscar Isaac, the dancing scene,
like how iconic that is. But yeah, I know, I, I think
you're right. Like Jack O'Connell is like,
hang on a second here, like you're stealing my Thunder and
let's go ahead and get to the, the kind of commandments that
you're going to confirm for my fingers.
And I think what, what are they? They're like the to basically
like add fingers, right and spread their charity and then
also that he is the son of Satan, like that's what he wants
confirmed. And doesn't he turn to Kelly
while he's doing this? He's like, no back talk.
No, Yeah. He's he says like and yeah, like
we're we're going to go on with our mission without back chat.
Yeah, back chat, which is not a phrase that we have in the US,
but I really would like to incorporate back chat.
There's so many colloquial things that I couldn't pick up
on in these last two movies that I wish we had.
I mean, we have like 10% of our listeners actually live in the
UK, which so let us know if there are things that were
missing. But that is one of them where
I'm like, I wish I could pick up on some of the things O'Connell
saying that I can't totally identify, but yeah.
But absolutely love that scene. And then he kind of senses that
things are going awry when Rafe, you know, notices that Spike is
underneath the mask, which not totally sure how he did that,
how he did that. It's pretty dark, you know, for
I thought they were just going to like have Spike take off the
mask and Kelson would kind of see, but whatever, he will go
with it. Harry Potter, he has his
mother's eyes and I think finds got very familiar with his the
mom's eyes. I guess he hasn't heard a lot of
people in a. Really long time either.
So like, if that's the one person you really like, you're
right in the past. He knows Jodie Comer well in the
sun. Well, we should say also he was
basically the another part of the comedy that me and Kelsey
grabbed each other's arms saying to one another when he is
performing Satan, we're like, Oh my God, it's subversive because
he's doing Lord Voldemort. But as like cosplay.
So like, there's another meta layer of like Harry Potter fans
being like, that's him being playful with the idea that we
know he's Lord Voldemort. Well, especially the way he's,
like, slinking around and circling Jack O'Connell at one
point feels so Voldemort coded. So yeah, it it is very fun.
But but yeah, so he notices that right.
Spike is underneath this twisted, weird mask and says,
actually, like, I have one more thing that that we need to do as
the son of Satan. Jack O'Connell, Sir Jimmy
Crystal, you need to be crucified like the Son of God.
And I love what Jimmy'z like not in the agreement.
And this is like the part where, you know, at the very beginning
when Jimmy by the OR at the very beginning of like their meeting
by the river. I was like, thank God when Jimmy
said let's cut a deal. I I turned you.
I said, thank God they're not going to kill refunds because I
love him. And hopefully he shows up like
maybe Aaron Taylor Johnson can meet him in the third one, you
know, like I'm glad he'll be a part of this.
And you were like, oh, no, they're definitely killing him.
So when it this happens here? Because Garland's devastating.
Garland's characters are more ideas than totally developed
characters, and so it made more most sense for the idea to be
capitalized on by killing that character.
Regardless if people were expecting it or not, it was so
devastating to see Jimmy Crystal stick that knife into Kelson's
body. Did you get emotional at the end
of the first 28 years later with the death of Joni Comer and how
that is designed in terms of like the writing of it and the
performance of it and how quickly it happens?
And also, did you get emotional at the end of this movie when we
lose Dr. Ian Kelson basically in his sacrifice to save the boy?
I don't think I cried if that's what you're asking, but I did
get emotional. Yeah, I think similar, similar
to me. I got emotional but I didn't
cry. But I'm a big crier in movies
and I do think that is like 1 criticism.
I would kind of direct at both of these.
Didn't make me cry. Of these films well it's that
they there is a little bit of a rushed feeling or an undeserved
emotional moment, though still very poignant and like
thematically I think dense purpose in how we're supposed to
be emotionally connected to some of these characters we're like.
I think the through line of these two movies so far when it
comes to the familial stuff is about how parents are infected
with a sort of shame and they're infected in the way that they
kind of bring children into a broken world.
Like there there is something inherent about birth that is a
sort of psychological infection that you impose on your
children, if that makes sense. And I think the movie is sort of
like reckoning with that where Dr. Ian, he's so committed to
protecting innocence and so is Jody combers character.
The mother who like did not did not want Spike as a 12 year old
to become this warrior to even with her sickness, like with
cancer, she was like the most, I think, lucid during those
moments where her child might be in danger and she kills like a
zombie to protect him at night time in the first movie.
And so these films keep coming back to this idea, this huge
through line of I think all the 28 films, because there's a lot
of like children in these movies, Like there's a the young
girl in the first movie, there's the two kids in the weeks later
movie. We obviously have, you know,
Spike in these last two films where basically the virus, I
think, is supposed to work as a larger metaphor for, you know, a
lot of ideas. Not all of them work, but maybe
the clearest when it comes to the emotional aspects is what do
we pass down to our future generations?
And I think because that idea was a little bit forced at the
end of the last movie with the death of Joni Comer's character,
that I won't resonate with it probably until I have my own
kids. Or like we have our own kids and
in this movie, I think it also won't resonate until again, we
have our own kids because I think it's so much about that
idea. Although as like a teacher,
obviously I resonated with, I understood, I think what was
happening, but it didn't totally connect with me.
So I don't know if it's a criticism as much or is it's as
much as I have not deep into my life as a human being to the to
the depths I would need to totally connect.
With those two things, no, I mean you cry at every other
movie. Like where?
So maybe it is an issue in Screenplay I.
Don't know that it was more so like what you're talking about
is the Jodie Homer death felt. Yeah.
Like, oh, wow, this is kind of out of nowhere in terms of their
the length of their stay at the bone Temple.
And then also when she dies, we get the flashback that was
really not that long ago in the movie of them like sticking
their tongues out at each other of like harassing.
Is your dad silly with you? Like, does he give you like a
room to be playful and not just like everything you do is in
service of becoming this like idea of what a man is in our
society? Kind of.
So I feel like, but the flashbacks felt a little hollow
because it had just happened. So it wasn't like going back on
these memories that, you know what I mean, like.
We haven't built felt inserted. It felt like the end of a
trilogy more than the end of a first movie.
So that's why I felt like a little bit forced or not totally
deserved. But the point I was going to
make was with Ian, I think it felt more deserved actually.
OK, yeah, But I but I think in terms of the Ian, it felt
abrupt, but it was fine because we had spent a lot of time with
Kelson and we got a lot of quiet moments, which we'll get to in a
second with Samson, with Kelson in this movie.
But I think, yeah, like what you're talking about, like, I
don't know that Kelson and Jody, like Comer's, I forgot her
character's name, but Spike's mom, I don't know that they were
like particularly focused on protecting innocence as much as
like what you were more so saying like is trying to use the
the the idea of like protecting children from just immediately
absorbing whatever like idea system they're born into, which
I think. That's kind of what I.
Mean yeah, I know I that is what you meant I just think that like
innocence wasn't the. They want, they want to like
maybe it's curiosity or like they want to preserve just the
kind of like the rawness of what it like a young mind can consume
and just making sure that that's not totally consumed by the fog
of the virus, which in this case would be like the ideology going
back to your point that kids are born into.
So basically what happens next? They nail Jimmy up.
Yeah, we see Kelly, who tells Kelson in this kind of funny
moment where she's like, you're not going to survive that.
And then it's like, I'll do one last wish for you, though.
I'll. I'll nail Jimmy to the cross and
we see him crucified and the upside down cross and Kelson is
like dying next to him as he sees this hallucination of
Samson as the devil. Right, yes, his worst fears or
dreams I guess, throughout the movie of actually meeting the
devil come true, in his mind at least.
Samson, we did skip over his subplot.
He is the only subplot of the movie.
There is no surprisingly, there's no Aaron Taylor Johnson
subplot. I thought there would be running
through the woods, running into other alphas.
Yeah, the baby. I thought there would maybe
there is a 20 minute subplot that Alex Garland had and 10
pages of a screenplay that he probably cut as to make this a
tight 100 minute movie, which I do appreciate from Garland and
some of his works. He's he's good at that, even
though I think Boyle and Dacosta actually bring a humanity to his
tone that is often defeatist or fatalist, which is nice.
But Samson, he goes on a few personal drug induced journeys
before we see him at the end of this movie to regain, if I'm
saying this correctly, I think human consciousness where he
gets flashbacks of what it was like or he starts hearing sounds
he might have heard of as a human being.
And then we, he gets on the train, he sits down like he is a
human being. And we cut to the most
legitimate flashback that we've seen in the entire movie where
he's a child and he's looking at a picture book of a moon.
And that is the one word he says.
And which I, this was the reason I asked the emotional thing was
because I was going to tie it up here.
This was the only thing that I actually got teared up in in the
movie, realizing that Samson was a was a kid.
And just the this movie keeps coming back to this idea of of
children being traumatized by the world around them and how
there is something, even though there is something about there
is a quality about death that is beautiful because it gives life
to rebirth in some ways. And that's a cycle of life and
death. There's also something deeply
traumatizing about bringing a child into a world that's
already corrupt and seeing that the character that we've been
most afraid of in this franchise for a rifle, you know, justified
reasons because Samson is frightening.
It has just been infected with this cloud or, or fog, rather.
And Kelson has sort of rescued him from that.
And when the woman on the train in the flashback asks for his
ticket, and he says back, like, oh, I don't have my ticket.
And you have the actor Chi Lewis Perry, who made me tear up
saying I don't have my ticket in a kind of like, innocent way.
And then we see the shot of all these zombies on the train
staring at him like. Like are you are OP?
Like why do you seem like you're a human and not a zombie?
Like why are you not affected all all of a sudden?
And then it turns into a John Wick sequence.
I was like holy shit this is an amazing sublot.
Well, also like kind of what you were talking about earlier, the
the idea of like the vision that young Samson has like as a child
in that flashback, that the kind of transition scene there is
also like interesting thematically because basically
like he is surrounded by all these white people on the train.
The woman asking for his ticket becomes this like horror figure
and like merging the flashback with the zombie that's there in
real time. And so that that was
interesting. Yeah, loaded imagery, yeah.
Yeah, but then you're right, it it does become a John Wick like
just killing all the zombies scene.
Right. And so and 28 weeks later, we
know that there is not not that this movie cares about lore of
its franchise. I don't think Garland and Boyle
really worked too much on 28 weeks.
I think they were like on the production a little bit, but
then they left it. So it's like made by other
people. So I think they sort of disown
it. But they did show a flashback to
28 Weeks and 28 years Later Part 1 where they show the mall
sequence or sorry, no, not the mall sequence of the Jeremy
Renner sequence from sniping. People are being asked to snipe
humans and not just the infected.
But we learned in that movie that there is a, there are
people who are immune right to the virus because the mother
figure, I think becomes infected, but she's a hybrid of
a human infected. And so now we're learning that
it will be possible through, I don't understand the medication
process here, but the, I guess the through psychiatric
medicine. Whatever the concoction of pills
that that Ray finds gave Samson. It worked, I guess, right.
And so he comes back as talking and comes back to take the body
of Ian Kelson and brings it somewhere that I'm sure we'll
find out in Part 3. Maybe he's making his skull to
put it on top of the skull thing.
I don't know He's. Going to inherit the bone
temple. So that's basically the movie.
And then we cut to black and we open up in an epilogue, which is
Kelly Murphy, yes, which is wild.
Which, yeah, was a good surprise.
Like, did you have doubts throughout this movie that he
would actually make a return? People were cheering and
clapping and I usually don't join in on that because I'm like
experiencing the movie and it's not because I I'm disagreeing
with that choice. And I did join in on the
clapping. I was hype is Kelly Murphy.
I was going to say feels like a Marvel Stinger, but the way they
used to use it back in like 2012 where it felt really, I think
satisfying, like this was satisfying.
And Kelly Murphy looks really good.
I guess I don't. Almost as a criticism.
Of Heimer money. He does.
He looks like he has a skin care routine that was not present
back in 2000 when he didn't have any money.
We cut to basically a little girl doing homework about World
War 2, I think, and the rise of fascism, which is not subtle,
but it goes back to, you know, Garland being unsubtle about
ideas that are somehow still complicated in our world today.
So therefore, it's actually important not to be subtle about
these things, which is basically Garland saying the rage virus
has always existed in our politics, in our ideologies, in
our tribalism. And so it's not just like this
biological like virus. It is a political reoccurrence,
which I liked. And they literally have the girl
go like history repeats itself in the Churchill thing.
So I thought that was all awesome.
I like that the dad is like a teacher and he's like, make sure
you study this part. This will be on the test
tomorrow. I just love that.
If I were to know like what were on the exam, yeah, they.
Have great chemistry instantly too.
Definitely, yeah. And I I love how we also when we
cut back to this, you immediately know that Kelly
Murphy is going to be introduced because it's shot in a similar
way that 28 days later is, you know, it goes back to like a
kind of less a worse resolution, right?
I'm like the Jeep and the the house to kind of like QS into
this introduction. Yeah, I I didn't clock that it
was the Jeep. That's really cool.
And then we see that they see Spike and Kelly running across
the field. The music starts playing.
The daughter is like, are we going to help them?
And the dad, of course, to continue this through line of
like actually teaching kids how to help people rather than how
to isolate themselves from people is like, of course.
And we hear the 28th theme music start kind of getting louder and
then it cuts to black. The movie ends, Everyone cheers,
claps. Me and Kelsey turn to each
other. We're like, did we just watch an
instant classic? Which is strange considering
it's an IP movie. And considering that it's not
really like in it's not like this clear cut storyline that
extends from the second one, like it feels like I said at the
OR you're talking about at the beginning, like the side quest,
like a total, you know, different story than we
originally thought we were going into.
So it it will go down as like maybe one of the best sequels
ever to me at least. I know some people might be
like, where was the story with Aaron Taylor Johnson that I came
to see? Why am I seeing all these
Teletubby, you know, cult like freaks here?
And and that's fine, I get that. But I just thought the tone was
like so ambitious. I loved it.
Like you said, the way that NIA Dacosta like framed a lot of the
comedy here, but still kept it really suspenseful still like
within horror threads. And you're right, like, and then
in terms of the actual screenplay, I like that we come
back to what the 28 franchise is kind of like circling back to
again and again where, you know, Spike asks Ray fines like, you
could have just let us go. Why did you like why did you
even say anything to me? Right.
And and Nelson is like, well, I feel like you've already like
gone through a lot and basically I'm at this age and I have the
perspective to kind of like make sure that my dying kind of he
keeps saying the Memento Bori like we all have to die at one
point. And if I'm going to die, I'm
going to make it have some sort of reason or like teach you that
you don't have to always like be be in service of like justifying
actions for self preservation or like what you're learning from
your you know, that the people you maybe trust to like you can
question things. And I feel like that character
there, it was in line. You're right with like Kelly
Murphy being like, yes, let's go help.
It's beautiful. Yeah.
It's very nice. It's very kind.
And I think my extra credit goes to Decosta and Garland working
together to make a sequel to a, you know, a franchise where they
did make a story that is singular.
It is taking IP to make something wholly original for
the most part, except for the 15% of like, you know, IP lore
that has to be dragged into it. I think it's one of the reasons
that we're Prometheus sets. Like we love Prometheus.
We love Covenant as sequels to the Alien franchise because they
are sort of like side quests that give you an origins to the
Alien movies that give you a potential future where they
could go. And that's certainly where
Disney's taking them in AI think in a bad direction, but they're
also their own kind of stand alone stories about their stand
alone ideas that can connect to the larger franchise if you'd
like. I think it's what we used to do
with sequels like Halloween, the Halloween franchise, because we
just did the Halloween, the first movie, John Carpenter's
film in October. Some of those Halloween movies,
the sequels are really cool because they feel like side
quests from the Michael Myers Canon.
Like even Halloween 3 doesn't have Michael Myers in it, right?
Like so like that's we used to do stuff like that.
But because studios are have these commercial formulas of
thinking that audiences are so conditioned and fucking stupid
that we need to just see faces that we've seen before in
previous shit to go out and buy tickets because they've created
those supply chains for us. And that's not actually where
the demand is. That's just the supply.
And that's the movies we have access to.
They think that's all that works.
But thankfully Boyle, Garland, because they had the rights on
this after they had left. I don't, I forget who had them
for the last 20-5 years. They created this contract where
they're like Sony, you can have 28 days later and you can have
28 weeks later. We'll give you the rights.
But we want 3 movies. We're going to make a trilogy.
And it kind of feels like I'm going to put this out there
because I'm assuming the third movie is going to be epic and
it's going to be like A2, an actual 2 hour film, not one of
these like 90 to 110 minute movies.
I think we'll get like a 2/2 and 1/2 hour, like epic end to this
trilogy. I hope with like Aaron Taylor
Johnson and killing Murphy, maybe some fighting.
Yeah, I I'm just going to throw this out there.
I wouldn't be surprised if this movie does do as close to as
well as the first one. I don't think it'll do better
just because there's no marketing really at all.
There's not a cool trailer with the first one had, or at least I
don't think there is that this one does pretty well.
It makes 100 mil, let's say, and the third one makes 100 mil.
I bet they could extend this into an even longer saga.
What's after years, 28 decades later?
No, I mean, they can continue just making like 28 years later,
you know, Colon, yes, yeah, you know, whatever that whatever it
is. Yeah.
The Lonely Island, whatever. Does that make sense?
Yeah. I think they could make this
like an interesting thing where you can bring on Nuo tours, make
it like the Alien franchise where Alien three, they bring on
David Fincher to like kill those other characters.
Just keep Ripley. I mean, there's so many
interesting things to do with dystopian stories, but also
zombie stories like we saw. I mean, they have a lot of
evidence with like, The Last of Us really Catching Fire for the
first season and that dwindled out in the second.
But but to do with something like interesting here with this
that feels like unique. You're right.
And I love. Yeah.
I hope like go tell friends to see this especially if they're
horror fans because I would love to see more of these movies get
made. My last nitpick though, that I
didn't get to with this epilogue because I forgot, is that Naomi
Harris wasn't in the. Yeah, I thought we were going to
see her. And obviously that's, you know,
her daughter too. And that was actually really
disappointing because I was really excited by the idea of
killing Murphy and Naomi Harris returning to this IP, even
though the daughter's really cute.
I would have I would actually trade in the daughter figure.
You know, I know this movie's about kids and their parents.
So these franchise for this franchise's commentary makes
sense. I just love that actress and
she's had like a cool year with black bag and she had a
obviously her her one of her breakout performances was
Moonlight, but she was stuck in the Bond franchise for a while.
So I was kind of hoping she'd have a return to being one of
the, you know, one of the new exciting actors of her
generation, just as good of an actor for generations like Jodie
Comer is. So that was kind of sad to see.
Yeah, I wonder if like the because it was a sweet like
addition to have Kelly Murphy and then you have like some sort
of mystery around, OK, is this Naomi Harris's, you know, child
also? OK does that mean we're going to
see her in the sequel? Right.
It does kind of like deep in a question that we have.
So like, it would be really cool if we if she does show up in in
the next one, right. But yeah, it was disappointing
for sure. OK, my extra credit goes to Jack
O'Connell. And I know it's like for the
extra credit, I know that is the performance that people will be
talking about coming out of this movie, I hope.
But it's not like he's going to be, you don't win an Oscar or
anything. Like he deserves recognition for
this because I think that people have talked about his
performance in Sinners, which was scary.
But here, like he makes the movie work.
He makes a tone that is really hard to nail work, Of course,
like we have been saying, like it's Acosta's choices in the the
film, like language or visual language adds a lot to the
comedy. But what he is doing to be
terrible, terrifying and funny and strange and leave you on
your toes is like, it's just amazing.
Yeah, both like a populist that you can feel.
You can understand why people could be convinced by him, but
also dumb enough where it's kind of obvious that he is an idiot.
That's a hard tone to nail. And he does that.
Yeah, shot on him. And Ray finds Ray finds who
could easily retire because he got the Harry Potter money.
Who knows how much money he was being paid for those movies.
But is continuing to take just weird character actor
performances when he could just be doing like ROM coms, which I
would like to but Charlotte refines as well.
And the rest of this, this ensemble and Archie, what is
Archie Williams, who plays Spike?
Alfie, I think. Sorry, Alfie Williams, who I
hope you know gets a little bit more to do in the third.
Movie. I agree.
Yeah. Any predictions for the third
movie? I mean, besides, just like the
plot lines running together, I don't really know.
We made predictions on our last one.
We were wrong about all of them because I was talking about like
how we're going to return to the island.
But I guess we'll get more of that in the third one.
Do you think they become the big bads in the third one?
Because who else? Yeah, who would become the big
bads? There's a new group, new actors.
A new Jimmy. Colin Farrell comes, and he's
the strange, eccentric villain of the third one.
I don't know. I don't know.
We'll see. All right, we'll be back soon
with I have no Idea. We'll be doing stuff on Patreon.
You can check us out on there for free members.
You have a lot of access to a lot of episodes for subscribers.
We got like 100 episodes of like 400 hours worth of content on
there. You can listen to We're watching
the Golden Globes very soon, which is exciting, but we're not
doing an episode on that. We'll probably back toward the
end of January in the main feed, maybe early February with Send
Help, which is the Rachel McAdams, Dylan O'Brien, Sam
Raimi horror one location, you know, movie that I'm very
excited by that looks like Castaway, but with my boy Dylan
O'Brien playing an evil person or Rachel McAdams, who is also
one of our favorite actresses, playing somebody who could be a
protagonist or sneaky antagonist of that movie.
We'll see. Definitely an unexpected duo
there and I am so excited for it.
All right, we'll be back. Peace.
Bye.