1 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:21,360 The Hello Welcome to the extra credits of Stranger Things. 2 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:22,600 I'm Trey. And I'm Kelsey. 3 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,720 Today we are reacting to the finale of Stranger Things season 4 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,400 5 and also saying goodbye to one of the greatest TV shows in 5 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,800 recent memory. I know, it's so sad. 6 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,400 Bittersweet, kind of sad day. This show has meant a lot to us 7 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,280 in the past 10 years. I think to a lot of people, 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,640 yeah, it's really, really great. Didn't end super great. 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,080 No, yeah, yeah. Not the strongest ending, but 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,160 that's OK. I think this will be a mostly 11 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:50,080 positive podcast because we'll be talking about season 5, you 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,400 know, our our review, but we'll also be talking about the other 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,840 seasons and like why? It's just such a a special show. 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:02,920 But first, happy New Year 2025 is over. 2026 is here. 15 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,560 We're grateful for all of our long time listeners and new 16 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,280 listeners. Your support just as a listener 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,280 or subscriber or some of you as a patron has meant the world to 18 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,400 us. We're very lucky that we were 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,160 able to have this show as a hobby, then turned into a second 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,040 job in the past few years. And 2025 in particular was a big 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,080 growth year for us and listeners and download. 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,440 So I imagine 2026 will be an even bigger year, which is very 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,040 exciting. Now we usually don't plug our 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,600 own show even though we are told to buy our listeners pretty 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,760 often. But I do want to do that now 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,160 because it's the start of a new year. 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,240 And if you've been listening to this show, we're so. 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,360 Bad at like self advertising? Yes, we're horrible at it. 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,680 If you listen to this show and you enjoy what we do here and 30 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,000 you know, you can't support on Patreon because money is tight 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,200 and all the work we do over there, you you probably still 32 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,240 want to support us somehow. The best way to do that is Apple 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,480 reviews or a Spotify rating. So if you have Spotify, just 34 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,600 rate US five stars. Maybe leave a comment on this 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,200 episode, tell us what you like about the show, what you love 36 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,480 about Stranger Things or just what we do on this podcast. 37 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,160 And then on Apple, leaving us a review of five stars, letting us 38 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,600 know, you know, what kind of episodes you enjoyed listening 39 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,440 to in 2025 or what you like about, you know, Kelsey 9, the 40 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,040 style of what we do here on the show. 41 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,760 Yeah, it really goes a long way. And I would say that like most 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,520 of our listeners are on Spotify, so that, you know, kind of 43 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,000 reflects in the reviews. But with Apple, if you have an 44 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,680 iPhone and you mostly listen on Spotify or another platform, but 45 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,400 you have the Apple Podcast app, what is it called? 46 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,200 Apple Podcast, if you have that app and even if you don't listen 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,240 to us on that app, it would really mean the world for us to 48 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,640 have you just leave a review. It's kind of annoying where I've 49 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:50,880 had to do this for podcasts that I love and like leave a review 50 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,360 for. You have to like hit play on one 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,000 of the episodes on that app and then it will allow you to leave 52 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,400 the review. But it doesn't take that long, 53 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,200 you know, and it is so appreciative, especially, you 54 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,880 know, when we get like weird one star reviews of people who like 55 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,080 clearly don't listen to the show. 56 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,240 And it's just like people who often leave reviews, right? 57 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,920 Like that's kind of the that's, I mean, that's just with 58 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:20,000 anything with reviews like. Most of the reviews are super 59 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,080 kind five star reviews, and then there's like every four or five 60 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,680 reviews, there's a one star that doesn't really make a lot of 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,720 coherent sense, but what they're criticizing. 62 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,080 But that's also just Apple. Reviews. 63 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,160 That's just like, yeah, that's the. 64 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,800 Nature. Of reviews in general, but it 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,680 would mean the world to us if you could like, go over there, 66 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,000 write a review. It doesn't have to be like 67 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,120 amazing, just whatever you like about the show, an episode you 68 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,240 like, like Trey said to take a minute out of your day to do 69 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,680 that. Even if you don't listen on 70 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,120 Apple, it would be awesome. So Stranger Things. 71 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,960 Stranger Things. This show has been on for nearly 72 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,200 a decade and we've reached the end of our time in Hawkins. 73 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,720 And for us, you know, this is AI want to try not to be overly 74 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,560 sentimental because this is like a billion dollar Netflix project 75 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,000 or multi billion dollar Netflix project that is kind of helping 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,920 end the theater experience in many ways. 77 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,560 And Netflix is too, and that's a whole other conversation. 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:21,000 But to this show is a monocultural American artifact, 79 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,720 right? It is a very fascinating piece 80 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,440 of pop culture in the last 10 years. 81 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,640 It is the end of a journey that basically carried us from 20 82 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,200 years old to now 30 years old, which is crazy to think about. 83 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,520 And. What's even more wild is that 84 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,240 Stranger Things isn't necessary. Like necessarily for one 85 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,280 generation, because I'm sure there were 80s babies who 86 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:44,040 started watching Stranger Things back in 2016 for it's like. 87 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,840 Yeah, I mean. It's exactly. 88 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,680 Yeah, like there's so many 80s callbacks and, you know, as we 89 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,440 get deeper into the seasons and maybe, you know, people are 90 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,400 like, grown with the show, we also have like 80s, like horror, 91 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,120 you know, slasher callbacks in season 4 especially, which I'm 92 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,280 excited to talk about today. But yeah, like, it's just such a 93 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:09,200 nostalgic show for so many different generations. 94 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,320 And it has, you know, the the core group of like friendship 95 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,560 and the the coming of age journey that really is like 96 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,440 something that a lot of people can come back to. 97 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,160 Yes. And it does do for the most 98 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,520 part, like there are some flaws and, you know, each season, 99 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,040 although I think Season 1 is pretty like tight. 100 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,680 I think it's peak television. Yes, yeah. 101 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,000 But like for the most part, we have a lot of different themes 102 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,160 that different other franchises that have a coming of age like 103 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,680 Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, right, that mean that are really 104 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,920 special to other generations in in this show. 105 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,760 Yeah, what what I was going to say though, about the age thing, 106 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:51,800 which is strange. It's like you could have started 107 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,360 this show at 40, been from that 80s generation growing up and 108 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,240 seeing yourself like on the bikes playing DND or whatever, 109 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,000 and now be 50 something close to retiring. 110 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,880 So the show's been on for a long time. 111 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,600 That's true. And that's not including the 112 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,120 target audience who related to 11 in the core 4 boys plus Max, 113 00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:12,280 who are probably like 12 years old when the show started, who 114 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:14,960 are now the age of Steve, you know, or like older than Steve, 115 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,360 like 2122 years old, which I, you know, that's, that must also 116 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,160 be a very cool and strange experience because I think we 117 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,440 can definitely relate to. That Oh yeah, I mean, Harry 118 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,440 Potter was exactly that for us, right? 119 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,000 The books came out, we were the basically like same age, you 120 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,440 know, as the actors. Grew up. 121 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,600 With them. And then the first movie came 122 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,360 out like when we were in elementary school. 123 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:41,880 Yeah, it is interesting. With Stranger Things I only 124 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,920 connected to Kind. Of grew up like as they hit 125 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,640 different stages and milestones in the movies. 126 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,280 Right. So we like very specifically 127 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,560 were like Daniel Radcliffe, you know, Emma Watson, Rupert Grant. 128 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,800 We grew up with those kids turned adults. 129 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:56,160 But for me in this show, what was strange was watching Joe 130 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,760 Curie turn into like the celebrity that he is now and 131 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,840 kind of like pop cultural. I don't want to say icon, it's 132 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:04,080 too strong of a word, but he's turning into somebody that's 133 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,480 like in multiple mediums and very good at what he does. 134 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:10,480 And he was our age when the show came out and now he's our age 135 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,760 now, which is very strange. And so he's been somebody that I 136 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,800 think we've connected to the most in the show as well, 137 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,720 because Steve is maybe the most interesting and dynamic 138 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,520 character on. Yeah, probably I. 139 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,080 Guess. We agree that, like Steve is the 140 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:26,280 best part of Stranger. Things he. 141 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,320 Brings like so much charisma to the to the screen. 142 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,160 I I do think like having the the group of kids, like obviously 143 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,320 that is the biggest strength, but it, it is interesting, like 144 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,280 stranger things, I think is so genius and that the Duffer 145 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,480 brothers created the coming of age group, like the Goonies 146 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,080 group, right, or whatever, you know, kind of story, you want to 147 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,520 like map on to it. But then we also have the like 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,600 Nancy, Jonathan, Steve, Robin crew and Eddie. 149 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,200 And then we have also like Joyce and Hopper. 150 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,760 So a bunch of different kind of generations can relate to either 151 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,320 like the motherhood experience that Winona Ryder is going 152 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:11,200 through the Steve Harrington like babysitter right that he's 153 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,560 playing, or just like your nostalgia towards the. 154 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,360 Corporate journey. Yeah, yeah. 155 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:17,800 Like there's just so many different age groups. 156 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,400 Absolutely. Now there are Stranger Things 157 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,720 haters. And so I do want to, you know, 158 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,800 I, I think I want to make this people feel seen too, who are 159 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:27,880 listening. Are they listening to this? 160 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,880 I think it's likely. I think haters also watch the 161 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,559 content that they hate on because again, this is a Netflix 162 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,480 project that has again basically helped ruin movies. 163 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,120 Netflix is probably soon to buy Warner Brothers, which. 164 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,640 We just talked about on Knives Out on a patron episode of the 165 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,960 Kind of Like Strange. Yeah, the Ryan Johnson 166 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,080 experience. And in a way, this is an end to 167 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,640 a Netflix era. So if you're going to be happy 168 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,280 about something is that Stranger Things is ending and so is 169 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,680 Knives Out, which are two of the biggest properties that Netflix 170 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,840 owns that they no longer have too much control over. 171 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,000 Because even though Netflix can go in a couple different 172 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,480 directions with spin offs of Stranger Things, I don't think 173 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,360 they can really do anything. That's going to be monumental. 174 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,240 Oh yeah, I mean, they're going. To do an animated series. 175 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,080 I think this spin off, like I understand in terms of like 176 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,640 Montauk maybe, but it just does not like I, I can't imagine it 177 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,000 being great, like, or maybe not great, but like something that 178 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,160 people are going to continue to watch. 179 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:24,880 Like I'm sure it will fizzle out pretty quickly. 180 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,200 I mean, maybe they do. Yeah, like a, a Montauk, like 181 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,840 you said, kind of sequel situation, make it like a Jaws 182 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,760 situation. You know, there's are so many 183 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,600 other things to call back to and make it their own because 184 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,840 obviously the Duffer brothers are like very imaginative. 185 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,760 But I can't, yeah. I can't imagine it having like 186 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,320 the cultural swell that Stranger Things has had. 187 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,560 The only move to me that seems obvious is to go into the 90s 188 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,560 and make it a 90s TV show with a new cast. 189 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,640 Like that would be interesting. But again, to like identify some 190 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,840 of the problems that Stranger Things has as a show at the top 191 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,240 here because you know, we do love this show but it has 192 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,320 issues. Like at its worst, it is like 193 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,320 this sci-fi mess of like retconning and like exposition 194 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,240 being deeply derivative and not just inspired by like famous 195 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,440 stories, but kind of like ripping Goonies or ET or Freddy 196 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,320 Krueger or Star Wars. That's all true. 197 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,680 But what can also be true is that there is actually like 198 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:23,800 beautiful storytelling told throughout this kind of 199 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:25,640 incredible group of coming of age stories. 200 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,200 And we rewatched the entire show leading up to season 5 and I was 201 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,560 blown away by the highs of Season 1 through Four Seasons 202 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,760 one through 4 because I don't know, it was pretty emotionally 203 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,880 complex. I had forgotten a lot about the 204 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,360 core themes of the show, to be honest, because it became so 205 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,240 much about the Upside Down and the, the villains like Vecna or 206 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,280 the, the Mind Flayer and the Demogorgons. 207 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,880 But so much of the, I guess the kind of core of the show, the 208 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,720 heart of the show is about following outsiders, about nerdy 209 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,480 kids, bullied kids, kids who were other kids who were queer, 210 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,480 kids who were invisible or looked at as awkward or out of 211 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,400 place. And then watching all of these 212 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:12,640 wallflower kids and adults and like older teens or young adults 213 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,640 find each other trying to save a world that doesn't seem to want 214 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:17,480 them. ANYWAYS. 215 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,920 That was like extremely just really powerful in the rewatch. 216 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,040 Like I didn't think I it would emotionally affect me to rewatch 217 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Stranger Things the way it did, but like season 1 in particular 218 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:34,160 I was just kind of like shocked by the A+ found family epic of 219 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,920 it all. Totally agree, and I'm so glad 220 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,920 we were going to originally just watch the recaps leading up to 221 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,320 the season 5 because we felt like we had kind of seen the 222 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,360 seasons enough. We're mostly a movie podcast. 223 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:49,080 We didn't even know if you're going to cover Stranger Things. 224 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,240 It didn't. Help that the season was bad. 225 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,600 We definitely considered what to do. 226 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,120 Yeah, we were crunched for time. We were like, let's just do the 227 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,640 recaps. I'm so glad we watched Season 1 228 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,280 through 4 in full because it also makes me, I think a little 229 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:05,880 bit more charitable towards Season 5 to kind of wrap this 230 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:11,240 whole thing up because it has been like such an amazing story 231 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:16,160 from Season 1 to 4 and season 1 in particular like is just, 232 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,600 you're right, peak television. And I think it's because we're, 233 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,680 yes, focused on the mystery of where Will is in the Upside 234 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:26,520 Down. We have like Winona putting 235 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,720 Christmas lights like the iconic alphabet on her wall and, and 236 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,320 all everything with that happening, her and Hopper like 237 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:38,000 joining forces and everyone meeting each other like that's 238 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,320 all really fun and great. Very strong iconography and 239 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,160 advertising. Eggo waffles are bad. 240 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,880 Yes, exactly. Yeah, the mystery of 11. 241 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,640 There's also a lot of dark things happening in Season 1 242 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,120 that I didn't really remember, like even just from like kills 243 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,120 of, you know, Barb and before that, like even just her cutting 244 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,400 herself like as she isn't opening something like you see 245 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,080 this like deep gash or the in the first episode, right? 246 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,800 I think the woman who's working for Brunner, like, shoots, 247 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:07,600 right? There's a lot of like a. 248 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,040 Friend who's watching 11? Yeah, things that are kind of 249 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,640 shocking and there's stakes in Season 1, so like all of that 250 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,560 makes it very strong, but a. Lot of mental health metaphors. 251 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,600 Yes, yeah. Eaver Hopper, yeah. 252 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,480 That's true, yeah, but at its core, but beyond the mystery and 253 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,880 like will stuffed body of it all, which is fun. 254 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,280 We have like these kids, we're. Deeply sad. 255 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,560 That's one of the saddest scenes and all of Stranger Things. 256 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,680 That's true, but his friendship right is at the core. 257 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:37,160 It's like these kids trying to find their friend. 258 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,960 A lot of kind of callbacks to not being able to really like 259 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,120 talk to the adults and really interact with institutions like 260 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,120 in their community. They like have to do this on 261 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,760 their own. They're dealing with bullies 262 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,640 right in the very first season to like, we'll talk about how 263 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:59,480 will is framed as a character. And I I think that like really 264 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:04,520 strengthens this like just this bond and and journey with these 265 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,240 friends, like going on an adventure. 266 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,560 And it's kind of, like you said, following these out this like 267 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,120 group of kids who feel like outsiders but have this like 268 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,280 really beautiful friendship with each other and like see each 269 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,200 other. Yeah, and I think it's one of 270 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,360 the reasons I really connected with Steve because he's sort of 271 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,600 the caretaker. They're they're his six Nuggets, 272 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,640 if you will. So when he becomes, you know, 273 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,280 spoiler alert for the rest of Stranger Things, the. 274 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,600 Whole show all seasons, including season 5, Yeah. 275 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,200 In the epilogue, we learned Steve it had become a teacher 276 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,240 and a coach, and as somebody who also became a teacher and a 277 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,800 coach in 2016 when the show started and identified a lot 278 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,480 with Steve and I was like, this guy feels like a future teacher. 279 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,080 I've that was amazing to see. That was one of the coolest ends 280 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,280 to one of the characters in Stranger Things for me. 281 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,080 And also I think there's a lot of weird connective tissue to 282 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,000 Stranger Things in my life as a teacher because it started the 283 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,640 show started when I became a teacher. 284 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,360 And so I've been able to talk about the show a lot with my 285 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,800 students for almost my entire teaching career. 286 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,520 It's actually become like a a funny shared language between 287 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,440 all of my classrooms. There's not a lot of through 288 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,240 lines of the 10 years of Gen. Z that I've taught, but one of 289 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,760 them is Stranger Things because there's so many different 290 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,720 monocultures across like the different social. 291 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,280 Media happening that like become really like viral at their time 292 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,160 growing up, that become their own thing, yeah. 293 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,680 I remembered this morning when prepping this episode, I was 294 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,680 like, Oh my God. I was literally Steve and Scoops 295 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,600 Ahoy one year for Halloween at school. 296 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,920 That's like, and the kids lost their mind because it's so out 297 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,640 of pocket for me to do something like that. 298 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,080 I don't dress up for Halloween to school. 299 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,400 And this was like pre pandemic. So it brought back a lot of nice 300 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,160 memories. I was like, oh, this is really 301 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,320 it's a sweet show because it was it gave us like a water cooler 302 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,640 thing in American culture post Trump. 303 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,080 That was kind of nice to have something shared or collective. 304 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,960 Do I wish the show was a little bit more political, you know, 305 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,360 bring up the Trump stuff because it kind of was in the first 306 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,680 season. There was a moment where they're 307 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,960 like, yeah, Mike's dad is this Republican who sucks. 308 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,280 They have like the Reagan or is it the Bush poster or whatever. 309 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,400 Oh, no, that was the the Wheelers, right? 310 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,800 Had like, yeah, yeah, had a they're obviously like, you 311 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,240 know, Ted. Is that his name? 312 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:17,840 That's his name. Who knows? 313 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,800 Unforgettable. Mike Wheeler's dad, obviously a 314 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Republican. Yeah. 315 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,280 So do I wish there was more of like, I don't know, an 80s 316 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,640 political commentary in the show that didn't have opportunities 317 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,200 to do that? Yeah. 318 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,080 But anyways, I just, I liked having that as this kind of, 319 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,120 like connective tissue between generations. 320 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,560 It was nice. Yeah, definitely. 321 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:36,520 I totally agree. Yeah. 322 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,160 I think also they had like an opportunity to to do something 323 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,240 interesting with the kind of what is it, Hawkins Lab, right, 324 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,000 Which is the kind of like government, right? 325 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,160 Yeah. Stand in. 326 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,680 I guess the show is interested in government conspiracies, just 327 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,840 not the ones I find interesting. Yeah, exactly. 328 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,320 It's and it's also not deepened in a lot of ways. 329 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Yeah. But yeah, I think Stranger 330 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,720 Things has been a the, the kind of like monoculture throughout 331 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,079 the the past 10 years. I do love that that Steve also 332 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,680 became a teacher because ultimately, like he is someone 333 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,720 who really like cares about the kids, right? 334 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,960 And we have obviously like Nancy cares about them, but maybe in a 335 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,240 different way. And and Steve is really like 336 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,319 focused on their growth. But you know, does he always 337 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,920 have like the best advice? No, no, he's. 338 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,240 Trying his best. Yeah, he's just trying his best. 339 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,080 So while I'm I am happy that that was the kind of conclusion 340 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,080 for Steve's character, who I absolutely love his screen 341 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,560 presence and joke here. He's just like really 342 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,880 charismatic, obviously. So he's bringing a lot to it. 343 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:49,120 But also, I mean, as teachers, you know, I think Mr. Clark is a 344 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,240 way better representation of a teacher. 345 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:52,760 Yeah. And. 346 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,360 They come to his house way too many times. 347 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:57,280 Way too many times, yeah. No phone calls? 348 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,080 Yeah, absolutely not. Coming to your house at 3:00 AM 349 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,320 or whatever was Erica Deer in two to five, Yeah. 350 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:07,960 But yeah, so like the I think Mr. Clark underrated teacher 351 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,200 figure absolutely love Mr. Clark, an icon, but Steve him at 352 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,040 the end being like, yeah, like I give kids like AS&B like it kind 353 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,240 of like undercuts teaching a little bit one. 100% 354 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,440 condescending. I just, I took the punch in the 355 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,400 face as I always do as a teacher and I'm like, I still like being 356 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,720 represented. In this way, Steve and I still 357 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,760 like that he is the best character, becoming a teacher. 358 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,840 But at the same time, it's like, you know, him being like, yeah, 359 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,480 I just didn't know what else to do. 360 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,000 And I care about people. Let me. 361 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,160 That's it. That was. 362 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,640 It OK, well, whatever. And he's buying a house a little 363 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,600 bit soon. But let's get money from Mr. 364 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,000 Clark. Gives him some mentorship. 365 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,920 Yeah, well, yeah, I guess he is teaching the same school, Mr. 366 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:46,960 Clark, if he's doing middle school. 367 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,600 OK Season 5. Season 5. 368 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,880 So let's do a quick, I don't know, I guess the most of this 369 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,320 episode will be the reaction of season 5, and then we'll talk 370 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,840 about our favorite seasons. Maybe we can rank our favorite 371 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,520 seasons. And I think we'll probably end 372 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,760 up talking about Season 1 through 4 through the reaction 373 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,320 of Season 5 because it, it'll be like, you know, did we like how 374 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,560 this character ended up? Do we feel like they kind of 375 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,120 went in a different direction that we weren't expecting or 376 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,480 that we liked like whatever. So I, I think we'll, we'll do it 377 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,800 like that. It's sad that we've had to, as 378 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,120 we had the show for a while, right? 379 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,920 But we've only had to end two TV shows, Succession and Stranger 380 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,320 Things. The ending of Succession made me 381 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,120 feel very spoiled, like the ending of Succession was really 382 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,680 powerful. I think that succession made 383 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,520 like made me truly feel like I lost something, right. 384 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,760 I and I wonder if stranger things. 385 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,160 I felt like sad that something wasn't. 386 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,120 Yeah, I feel like. But it wasn't a great ending for 387 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,320 Season 5. That's what I mean, a little 388 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,640 hollow. Yeah, So it was like, I'm sad 389 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,600 that this thing won't be in my life and I won't get to keep 390 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,480 seeing the adventures of like the Hawkins crew, the party. 391 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,520 But it I wonder if like, you know, shows or things that we 392 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,360 watched growing up, like Harry Potter or like, you know, shows 393 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,160 I watched like Gilmark Girls when it was airing, right, 394 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,160 Friday Night Live. And yeah, like, I remember those 395 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,880 things ending. And I wonder if like for the 396 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,680 next generation? Or anyone who's like really 397 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,240 keyed in if they felt that when Stranger Things ended or did 398 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,240 season 5, like you said, kind of like have not not leaving a bad 399 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,520 taste in their mouth, but like I'm sad this is ending, but that 400 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,040 wasn't super satisfying versus like succession, I mean. 401 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,720 Well, it's, it's, I will say this as a teacher, it's tough 402 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,440 for the kids out there. The shows that they're choosing 403 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,000 from right now, like the summer I turned pretty in, like Outer 404 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,440 Banks. It's it's rough. 405 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,280 It is tough, which is why like, they're going back to our TV 406 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,040 shows. Great. 407 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,520 Yeah, when I'm sympathetic to this. 408 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,480 Like we talked about this on The Hunger Games and Twilight 409 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,960 Patreon episodes last month. OK, so gut reaction. 410 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,320 Season 5, we finished the two hour finale going into the new 411 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:07,120 year last night and I walked away from season 5 feeling very 412 00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:09,480 disappointed. So I guess more of the negative 413 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,240 reaction is coming right now. I did cry a lot in the last 20 414 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,720 minutes of this episode, the final episode. 415 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,960 And that's just because the show emotionally plays you. 416 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,960 It's a manipulation of your nostalgia. 417 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,040 And also you're like going off of the the strength of season. 418 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,080 One through 4. But that's what I mean, you're 419 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,120 just saying in a nicer way they're they're fucking with us 420 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:32,760 a little bit. The writing was really bad this 421 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,880 season and they're like, we're going to put some scenes that 422 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,800 are going to make you cry from the first Four Seasons here. 423 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,360 That's true. They did a bunch of flashbacks. 424 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,280 A ton. And so yeah, I think Season 5 is 425 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,040 clearly the weakest season. I don't think it's unwatchable 426 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,480 television. So it's not like the worst 427 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,840 season of TV I've seen. It's not like that one episode 428 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:59,680 from Season 2 with when 8 is introduced, Cali, Cali when 429 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,120 Cali's introduced. But I thought this season was 430 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,240 just really unfocused. It felt like the show I was 431 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,320 trying to explain itself instead of ending itself and its arcs 432 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,920 and its storylines. And after re watching all five 433 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,040 seasons, I think what really stood out about what was wrong 434 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,520 with the fifth season is how much it de prioritized coming of 435 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,920 age arcs in favor of war management. 436 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,800 Like trying to the tunnel or the bridge or whatever. 437 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,040 Yeah, whatever that was, we can get to it. 438 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,720 Which led to so many plot holes and then uninteresting ends to 439 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,640 character journeys because they spent so much time expanding on 440 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,760 the Upside Down in the wormhole in Vecnas layer in the Mind 441 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,840 Flayer. It made me feel empty in a lot 442 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,480 of bad ways. That toward the end of the show 443 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,000 when Mike is kind of writing the story of the party at the end 444 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,800 with his glasses on, looking like Stephen King and kind of 445 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,120 creating the mythic L who's living in another country 446 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:58,680 somewhere. Even though we probably know 447 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,400 that she is dead. And he sort of made-up this 448 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,000 fantasy in his head to to cope. Debatable. 449 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,480 We can talk about. Which we can debate, certainly, 450 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,200 and I'm sure people are online. I have no idea. 451 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,440 I'm not plugged in so I don't really know what people are 452 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,160 saying online about the show outside of some things about 453 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,560 Millie Bobby Brown, which we can touch on. 454 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,680 But I did feel like the show ending last night. 455 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,520 I was in tears. But then also I was like, I want 456 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,280 to redo. Can we have a redo? 457 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,000 Does that make sense to? Give the Dumber brothers more 458 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,880 time to really like sit with this and let's just have a new 459 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,040 season 5. I agree. 460 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,000 I wanted to like Respawn. Like I was like, I'm so sad that 461 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,320 this is the end of this game that we've been watching. 462 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,720 So those, those are my, that's my gut reaction, I think. 463 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,600 Where you at? My gut reaction is like Season 464 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,960 5I cringed a lot. I think there was just a lot of 465 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:47,240 forced things in the opening of the season and then also just 466 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,520 kind of emotional things that they had to tie up, especially 467 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,360 with Will's character, which we will talk about. 468 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,520 And and then, you know, other things happening with like 469 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,760 Holly's character. There's a lot of enforced 470 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,440 emotional aspects of like Max and her, although I ended up 471 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,200 like warming up to that storyline, but just a lot of 472 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,200 things that I was like actively cringing at, which is not 473 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,160 usually an experience that I have. 474 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,400 Yeah, a lot of force. Stranger Things force character 475 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,960 dynamics. Yeah, 11 training montages. 476 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,120 Yes, I've well, I've had like boring moments, right, Like I 477 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:24,560 think the Hopper jail, you know, Russian prison storyline should 478 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,680 have just been like totally cut out like we only go back a few 479 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,520 times instead, yes, instead, and and I think that, you know, 480 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,440 there are points that I've been bored, but I've never like 481 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,600 actively cringed at something and this season was full of 482 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,280 that. It was really tough to get 483 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,280 through in a lot of. Moments cheesy 80s humor, but 484 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,920 also just bad jokes. Well, first we start out with 485 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,480 them like just continuously planning their runs, like it was 486 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,400 too much focus on the planning of the runs. 487 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,200 And then we had like the source of human being Dick jokes from 488 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,120 Robin. Just not funny at all. 489 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:03,480 Confusing. Strange to like make her only 490 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,120 queer character just like her personality now is to make a 491 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:11,560 Dick jokes to like Steve and the and the all these children. 492 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,120 Like it just looks so weird. Derek innocent though. 493 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,360 Derek OK, that is like the only time maybe in a decade that I 494 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,440 have laughed at a Dick joke is is Derek. 495 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,480 Telling Vector to eat shit like. Oh my God, Derek is a great 496 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,800 addition this season. Delightful. 497 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:30,360 I would. Yeah. 498 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,160 Delightful Derek. I would say he icon saved a lot 499 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,240 of the season in a lot of like cringy roles. 500 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,520 We'll talk about also like characters that were kind of 501 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,440 left out in the season like I would have. 502 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,960 I'd love to see more of Erica. Erica was the first season. 503 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,120 Like I don't I don't understand what. 504 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:46,600 They kind of replaced Erica with Derek. 505 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,080 Yeah, it was confusing. And but then we focused so much 506 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,600 on Holly. I don't know why we haven't 507 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,520 focused on Holly in Season 1 through 4, like almost at all. 508 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,760 Holly 8 and Derek were the most gutsy choices that the writers 509 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,960 made, and two of those choices were really bad. 510 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,760 Yeah. So which is Holly and eight. 511 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,400 You know, Holly the actress is fine, but like it's more Holly 512 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,640 was like the. Main character of the. 513 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,360 Show out of nowhere and there were sweet moments like Mike and 514 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:16,040 Holly, but Holly literally became the like 11 of the. 515 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,200 Show that's so true. Yeah, it's wild. 516 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:21,720 It was very weird, yeah. We didn't like end the the final 517 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,280 season with a focus on deepening the characters, especially 518 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,680 they're about to graduate. There's so much to do. 519 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,720 It's our last season with. Basically a super bad right? 520 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,360 Like Jonah Hill, Michael Cera, like fighting about being 521 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,440 roommates and lies. Like, you know, like there's so 522 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,840 much to do to do with the anxieties of moving to a new 523 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,600 chapter of your life that it just makes no sense to like do 524 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,760 Camazot and focus on Max and this like, Ragdoll costume going 525 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,360 through Vecna's memories that we don't even get to see. 526 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,560 This is another. Huge we're going to get. 527 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,600 Lost. OK, we don't get to see. 528 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,120 There's a hallway. There is a hallway. 529 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,760 A school hallway. Yes, that is Vecna's memory. 530 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,120 We learn that someone. Henry. 531 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:07,880 Henry. Yeah. 532 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,280 Well, Henry's in the play or whatever, but there's a play 533 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,160 card. We hear Joyce Byers, right? 534 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,280 Hopper's there, the Wheelers are there. 535 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,320 Becna's there. We never get to see what 536 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,280 happened. All the kids at Sinclair's, like 537 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,840 all the kids parents are there, I, I believe. 538 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,120 Yeah, so. They introduce us to it like 539 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,640 early on in the season and we never go back. 540 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,040 Besides Max saying like, Oh yeah, I've been in this memory 541 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,640 Mr. and Misses Wheeler in that closet down there, like making 542 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,520 out here's blah, blah blah. Like why would we choose to just 543 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,280 leave that on the? Teams like they cut in episode 544 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,040 or two, right? It does feel like that because 545 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,560 it doesn't feel like they're setting up for a spin off. 546 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,080 It really feels like they cut something. 547 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,760 There's even a moment where Vecna captures Will again. 548 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,040 He's like, you're going to spy for me. 549 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,400 And then when Will has his coming out moment, which we will 550 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,720 get to, he talks about how he sees in his vision that Beckna 551 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520 showed him that they wouldn't accept him, which is why he felt 552 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,000 the need to reclaim like, his sexuality in that moment and 553 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,840 come out to everybody. But we never see those moments 554 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,600 that Beckna showed him. Like, there's so many things 555 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,600 that are brought up that are never further explored or never 556 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,960 shown to us about. Like the subplots that made me 557 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,200 feel like there were episodes cut from the season, which is 558 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,560 confusing because it's like a $400 million season of 559 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,000 television. Yeah, I don't know. 560 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,040 It was really, it was really frustrating, like the the things 561 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,120 that you felt like were an opportunity there to close 562 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,560 things out and then said they were trying to like do new 563 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,600 things. And we also spent like 3 564 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,080 episodes with Steve and Jonathan competing over Nancy. 565 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,720 Yeah, which makes no sense. Like in the Jonathan story arc. 566 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,520 Also like Don, just not do that. Yeah, it. 567 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,760 Felt like his character a lot in season 4 with the weed thing 568 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,520 even though Argyle was really funny and awesome and they. 569 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,960 Yeah, they made him like kind of indifferent and yeah, it was, it 570 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,480 was strange, but I so yes, there. 571 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:04,800 Was like. Yeah. 572 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000 But I think that there were just a lot of like out of left field 573 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,920 things that happened here that just didn't need to happen to 574 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,600 make something more interesting that was already interesting 575 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,000 and. Then Dustin getting jumped and 576 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,480 all of his friends being like well that's your fault. 577 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,800 Oh. Yeah, we never came back to 578 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,480 that. I thought we would have a moment 579 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,600 where we come back to Dustin being like, I was jumped and 580 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,560 everyone being like, I'm really sorry. 581 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,560 Yeah, yeah. Especially coming off of Vecna 582 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,760 and realizing that Max, like, you know, finds out that people 583 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,360 who are vulnerable to Vecna. And there's also right, 584 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,240 obviously, like a suicide metaphor in the season 4, right? 585 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,440 Vecna of it all. But you know, Max finds out that 586 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,960 everyone's experiencing the same symptoms of like depression of 587 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,400 loneliness, of trauma. And then we've cut to season 5. 588 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,600 Dustin gets jumped and everyone's like you're late dude 589 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,120 to the run like what the hell? And you're the only person who 590 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,200 built this antenna system and we don't know how to work it 591 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,240 without you. No one's checking in. 592 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,800 We obviously get to the reveal sort of of it, but there isn't 593 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,280 really like an emotional moment for checking in on Dustin, which 594 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,280 I thought they were just continuing again the the season 595 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,200 4 through line of like maybe forgetting to check in on your 596 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,200 friends. And the tough thing is not to do 597 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,360 like we're going to write Stranger things for the Duffers 598 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,680 because obviously they created this extraordinary world and 599 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,360 universe and like character journeys with really ambitious 600 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,640 themes, like personal moral themes and and family themes. 601 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,960 But but there was a moment and a lot of actually, there's a lot 602 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,080 of moments in Season 5 where I go, well, if they just make this 603 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,000 small decision, this automatically becomes more 604 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,360 interesting. And it's so it seems so obvious, 605 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,760 like with the dust and issue of him not fixing or not being 606 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,880 there on time and him getting jumped by those guys at Eddie's, 607 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,200 the cemetery, Eddie's tombstone, I think is where he is. 608 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,840 That's already a tragic kind of image and scene as it was to 609 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,800 then go to I think Misses Wheeler being almost killed at 610 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,960 the end of the episode as a result of Dustin. 611 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,440 I believe that's the same episode that was a result of 612 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,280 Dustin not being there. It's something like that. 613 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,320 Yeah. And I was like, oh, they could 614 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,480 have like attached that to like to add to his guilt and then 615 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,200 Mike and him having this like, conflict because his mom's dead 616 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,600 now. Like there are so many different 617 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,200 things they could have done that and and Misses Wheeler being 618 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,240 killed protecting her daughter weirdly felt like kind of 619 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:34,760 deserved because she's kind of the mom of the whole party in a 620 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,040 way, because everyone's always at her house and everyone's 621 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,600 hanging out in her basement and she's always worried for 622 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,040 everyone. Even though we do get the great 623 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,200 moment of her at the hospital when she hears that Lucas is in 624 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,440 danger. And they say over the intercom, 625 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,720 like Lucas is in danger. The Demogorgons are running 626 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,520 after you. She's like, I got to say less. 627 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,520 And she turns into like an 80s, you know, star like much like 628 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,560 Nancy is portrayed in this season. 629 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,320 And Nancy just walk around with shotguns. 630 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,320 Throughout half the season, Which? 631 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,120 Is dope. She's become like, yeah, Ripley. 632 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,000 And that was a really like fun Jurassic Park sequence of the 633 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,880 the kids. Yeah, hiding behind like, what? 634 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,880 I mean there was a washroom, but like what looked like the 635 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,240 kitchen in Jurassic Park of the Velociraptors. 636 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,960 The demo dogs like coming around the corner. 637 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,120 A 90s film, but it's OK. That's OK, yeah. 638 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:23,440 But yeah, I mean, I think that the the stakes like I understand 639 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,880 maybe opening it up for a sequel, a spin off like keeping 640 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,160 that, you know, keeping the core characters, which they did do 641 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,520 ultimately with 11. Like now there is a a read of 642 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,440 her dying, but there's also a read that could leave it open 643 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,760 where she does actually escape, because this happens in season 644 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:50,080 one and two right where she this appears, yeah, into the 645 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,040 chalkboard saves the the party. But then we find out at the 646 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,520 beginning of season 2 that she was actually just like in the 647 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,800 upside down breaks through and and is living with Hopper, 648 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,440 right, and he is like now her father slash like keeping her 649 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,560 safe. So there this has happened 650 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,520 before. So it kind of leaves them open. 651 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,840 But for characters like Misses Wheeler, like, it would have 652 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,280 made sense to add stakes to the world to just kill her. 653 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,680 Like, I love that, yes, she came back to save them in the 654 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,960 hospital, but it would have made sense to kind of like, have some 655 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,720 gravity because then I felt like no one was really going to die. 656 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,440 Absolutely. I want to come back to this 657 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,400 because it's kind of my main issue with this season is that 658 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,200 they established that stakes exist like adults and kids will 659 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,640 die in the show and Season 4. Season 4 changed the whole game 660 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,360 like emotionally for stranger. Things, I mean, it was like a 661 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,520 horror episode. It was, I mean, a horror season. 662 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,960 Yeah, it was awesome. OK, so the first thing I want to 663 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,200 talk about, that's like a major issue. 664 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,320 I have like a couple issues here I lined up in the notes. 665 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,480 And we have positives, just to be clear, like. 666 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,480 Let's do negatives first issues first. 667 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,400 This is no but this is a really bad season of television. 668 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,280 I think it is watchable, but it is very bad and I want to break 669 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:02,520 apart why? Because I do. 670 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,000 We already did our farewell that was like really nice in the 1st 671 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:06,600 25 minutes of this episode, I feel. 672 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,000 But we can talk about some positives toward the end and 673 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,400 throughout this, like there's some performances that I really, 674 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,800 really like. I think the first big issue is 675 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,560 when I said at the top already, but just I want to expand on it, 676 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,080 is the lore problem in Stranger Things. 677 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,520 This is my biggest issue. Every season of Stranger Things 678 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,679 has been trying to expand on the Upside Down, which is fine, but 679 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,960 that's always been, I think in unison with character 680 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,440 development. And this is the first time where 681 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,280 I felt the lore building competing with the character 682 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,320 development, which I found to be very strange in the last season 683 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,679 of ATV show that should be coming to some kind of like 684 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,679 balanced finale that even if it was just fine, would have been 685 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:46,639 fine. The fact that was so poorly 686 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,760 done, I was just honestly really shocked by the end of the show 687 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,760 because they just done too much. Like every season of the show is 688 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,600 added a new villain layer. We had the Demogorgans to start 689 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,760 season 1 and 2 with the mind flare. 690 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,640 At the end of season 2. We had Vecna and season 4 691 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,840 through 5. And now season 5 added another 692 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,240 realm entirely where we're adding a lot more science 693 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:08,880 fiction into this. It starts feeling like 694 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,960 Interstellar, where we have the Abyss and Dimension X, whatever 695 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,920 that those things mean. Thank God they drew a diagram 696 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,800 for me of our world. Hawkins right side up Vecna's 697 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,680 world and then the bridge which is the Upside Down. 698 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,800 Which is helpful, but I don't come to the show for the Upside 699 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,880 down. Yeah, everybody comes to the 700 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,800 show for the characters. That's that's storytelling. 701 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,040 You come for the emotion. And in the science fiction 702 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,640 behind it is supposed to be like this driving force of plot, 703 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,800 right? And instead it became about the 704 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,520 plot, which was very confusing to me. 705 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,240 And the idea that they're the Upside Down was actually this 706 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,160 bridge, from what I understand from Vecna's world, which is 707 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,120 like the abyss. And that's where the mind flare 708 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,080 is. That's where he lives inside the 709 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,560 mind flare. And then which? 710 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,480 Was a cool reveal. I I think so. 711 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,280 There's so much retconning that I don't know. 712 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,800 Do I think some retconning is cooler than others? 713 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,840 Yes, but still retconning. So it's a convenient 714 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,640 storytelling because you have a billion dollar TV show that you 715 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,440 can kind of do whatever you want to make it work. 716 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,720 So yes, I guess it was cool, a good visual. 717 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:11,440 I guess it looked like Vecno was in Godzilla at the end of. 718 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,680 This show, the issue which we'll get to is like that it that it 719 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:20,440 was like A1 quick battle at the end and the show didn't need as 720 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,560 much planning to outline this like plot of finding out that 721 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,800 there's Vecno's world that's going to crash into our world 722 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,160 upside down, the bridge and all this stuff. 723 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,520 Like was it interesting to see them go to Hawkins Lab and 724 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,440 figure out that the dark matter wasn't created by Vecna? 725 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,640 It was created by Brenner. Sure, whatever, but like. 726 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,080 But also what does that? Even mean yeah, like, but the 727 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,160 the issue like you're saying, because I don't care that 728 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,720 there's a Vecna's world and a bridge and in our world, like 729 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,520 yes, that's a cool development and yes, it's cool that they're 730 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,000 they're going to figuring more about the upside down to use 731 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,280 that to their advantage in terms of like what exists at the lab 732 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,400 to find Vecna's source of power, how he's like creating this 733 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,160 camisot or his own reality, right, which they end up then 734 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,720 finding like it actually is just a different world. 735 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:09,440 It's not the Upside Down. Yeah. 736 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,400 So like, that all works. The issue is in between, like 737 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,840 you're saying, is we have Jonathan and Nancy kind of 738 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,120 fighting because of the Steve and Jonathan thing, which 739 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,720 doesn't really make sense within the Jonathan character arc. 740 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,960 The strongest thing about Jonathan is honestly his 741 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,480 relationship to Will, like throughout all these seasons. 742 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,480 And we get that in one scene, but it's not, I don't know, not 743 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,680 really like honed in on in the season. 744 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,000 And then we have the sort of breakup between Nancy and 745 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,560 Jonathan that doesn't make sense. 746 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,760 I think we both watched it and came out with two different 747 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,400 opinions of what happened. I was like, he proposed to her 748 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,960 in a room that is sinking, which you called out very, very aptly 749 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,000 that this was a Titanic scene, which is awesome of like 750 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,360 sludging through the what is that plastic, whatever it was 751 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,520 melting building. Again, a 90s reference. 752 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,680 Yeah, which is strange. Which we love. 753 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:09,920 We're doing Titanic on the pod, like in a few days. 754 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,000 Yeah, on Patreon. So that was fun to see as a 755 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,960 reference. But then they're they're about 756 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,160 to drown. And Jonathan says, you know, I I 757 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,880 have this, like, ring in my pocket. 758 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,600 I've been waiting it to give it to you. 759 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,440 And will you not marry me? Yeah. 760 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,680 Did they break up? Did he say that we should be 761 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,200 together and just not get married because we're not ready 762 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:30,600 for it? Well. 763 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,080 We know they broke up because of epilogue. 764 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,080 Well, now because of the epilogue, sure, but it. 765 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,440 Sounds like Nancy might be gay question mark. 766 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,720 They might have added a queer lens. 767 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,680 Oh I didn't realize that's how I read it at the end. 768 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,920 Interesting. What part of the the end like? 769 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,480 Their conversation, I don't have a conversation right in front of 770 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,880 me, but the way that the conversation, the words they 771 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,600 were using, the way the way she was emoting her sentences about 772 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,480 being on her own and like meeting new people and like, 773 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:00,000 gotcha. And I was just like, and also 774 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,920 she looked great in her haircut. But I was thinking about the 80s 775 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,760 and just like, single woman on their own. 776 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,360 And I don't know, I think they were like nodding to some like 777 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,520 Thelma and Louise stuff. Gotcha. 778 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:09,840 That was just the way I read it. Yeah. 779 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,400 Maybe. I think though, with their 780 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:18,120 relationship, it just like was a horrible ending to a really 781 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,920 strong like couple who really found each other because they 782 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,520 were both like brave and cared about their family. 783 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,160 And in a way where like Nancy wasn't close to Mike. 784 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,960 It was kind of like a nice, beautiful thing to see them like 785 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,880 grow closer and just like wanting to save each other and 786 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,240 trusting each other. But Jonathan really like, so 787 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,840 Nancy was kind of like the brave aspect, which the Wheelers are 788 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,680 kind of supposed to be this like, you know, brave. 789 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,520 The badass family. Like you said last night, 790 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,880 they're all Gryffindors and it's a family of Gryffindors. 791 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,240 So true. Truly, they're the Weasleys. 792 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:54,840 Yeah, and Jonathan is a little bit like timid to go into the 793 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,640 Upside down. Wants to ultimately then save 794 00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,320 Nancy, wants to save his brother. 795 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,080 Is willing to like though. Do that to to save his brother 796 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,480 in the first like couple seasons. 797 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,880 And I I just really like their relationship as they like grow 798 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,960 together. And it was a horrible ending to 799 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,400 their characters and their relationship that didn't really 800 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,440 make sense of the logic of their what their emotional like arcs 801 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,320 have been. And then you're right. 802 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,200 Then it just weakens, like, why are we in this melting building? 803 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,840 Like, who gives a shit about all this, like science stuff that 804 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,600 Dustin's figuring out that it's fun for Dustin to like draw this 805 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,720 map and find the same map in the Upside Down Hawkins Lab. 806 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,320 But. Meanwhile, he's fighting. 807 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,520 Steve yeah, Meanwhile, also which? 808 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,240 Is a complicated. It's fine to have Steve and 809 00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:47,280 Dustin fighting, but they're being so mean to each other. 810 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:53,160 It feels weird just to have like a, you know, Steve saying that 811 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,120 he was not jealous, but like basically of of Dustin morning 812 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,320 Eddie, which is like such a selfish, weird thing to do. 813 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,200 Like, yes, maybe kids have immature, you know, reactions, 814 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,400 but that feels so out of character for Steve to not be 815 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,080 aware that Dustin's grieving like someone who, again, like 816 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,920 Dustin, you know, doesn't have a dad. 817 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,280 He so Steve is coming. He feels outed also by like an 818 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,840 outsider to even his friend group at times, right? 819 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,680 He wants to keep the Hellfire going and. 820 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,520 They don't. And so that was so weird to have 821 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,520 like, Steve feel like he kind of like, like took that love or 822 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,040 safety away from Dustin, I think. 823 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,080 Gaytan and Joe are really good actors, and so they made that 824 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,040 performance work, that kind of conflict work, the comedy. 825 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,760 Work in some parts of it, but then it then it just got to a 826 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,320 place where it was like this is just like they're being neat. 827 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,200 But even that worked emotionally. 828 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,400 Like when Steve wants to go and rescue Jonathan and Nancy and go 829 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,880 up the stairs and Gaytan is like, I can't lose you too and 830 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,960 he's crying. It's a really good performance. 831 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,640 And the stairs fall through and Joe has like a realization or 832 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,760 perform the performance. You can see the realization in 833 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,680 his face. None of it feels deserved in the 834 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:03,840 writing. Yeah, that's what felt 835 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,880 manipulative. They're just like point actors 836 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,680 and that was manipulative. Yeah. 837 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,800 The point I was trying to make with the whole like abyss and 838 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,000 dimension X thing, even though I cosign everything you're saying 839 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,480 about the Jonathan, Nancy, Steve Ark and we can get to that too. 840 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:23,360 Is that because the dimension X aspect of this of like planet 841 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,800 eating planets and these like multi dimension? 842 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,720 I don't know. Anomalies get injected into this 843 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:35,280 like family coming of age drama story, found family story. 844 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,360 It feels like there, it feels like when there's a plot device 845 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,120 injected into stories and that the characters tell you this 846 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,520 plot device means everything and you're like, OK, because it 847 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,480 means everything. It also means nothing to me and 848 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,720 it reminds me a lot of the failures of the MCU with the 849 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:56,560 multiverse in terms of what's happened to Stranger Things 850 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,400 toward the end of the show, which is like, let's try to 851 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,520 world build, universe build so we can Add all these potential 852 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,760 possibilities for good storytelling and either future 853 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,200 projects. It's kind of like the failures 854 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,000 of capitalism, I guess as a metaphor would be like the MCU 855 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,560 and Stranger Things are just funny. 856 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:16,160 But like the point that these writers are missing is that 857 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,840 these universes that you're adding to your stories only 858 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,960 matter if we care about the fucking characters in the 859 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,560 universes. So if we don't know the 860 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,840 characters in the multi verses you're creating or the dimension 861 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,480 XS or whatever those things mean, if we don't care about the 862 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,480 people, then we don't care about your sci-fi stuff. 863 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,080 Like we don't care about the fantasy stuff. 864 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,520 And so I don't know, I felt like as soon as we saw Holly falling 865 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,920 through the wormhole or whatever she was doing from back in this 866 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,600 place to the Upside Down, I was like, this show is cooked. 867 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,080 Because all of Season 4 tried to establish that kids can can die 868 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,000 in Stranger Things, adults can die, and that there's a Freddy 869 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,720 Krueger murderer coming for you in your dreams if you're 870 00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:58,200 depressed or lonely or isolated or going through some kind of 871 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,160 trauma. And he also has a really scary 872 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,600 theme song with a clock. Good luck, you know what I mean? 873 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,000 Like, that was a good pick for season 4. 874 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,240 And to Add all this other shit to make Vecna feel weightless as 875 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:14,440 a villain because of all this crazy, I don't know, cosmic 876 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,800 stuff going on in the background was just so shocking to me. 877 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,440 And when it took 20 minutes to kill Vecna, and then we took 878 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,800 another 30 to do the epilogue, I was like, what is happening? 879 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:28,440 How do we spend five years of our life watching two or three 880 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,200 seasons of the show with Vecna being this big bad? 881 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,480 But then Millie Bobby Brown as 11 comes in is like, I'm just 882 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:35,960 going to put you on the spike real quick. 883 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,320 And then Joyce fires. It was so easy to kill. 884 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:43,520 Cut off your head after 7 chops. It would mean it was so weird 885 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,840 how easy it was to kill Becna and the Mind Flayer after all of 886 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,320 this. Like what I think they should 887 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,840 have done is what they did in season 4, which is they're, you 888 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,600 know, a group that goes into the upside down. 889 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,800 Like we have Nancy, Robin, Eddie, Steve going to the upside 890 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,040 down. We're like getting towards the 891 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,640 finale. We have some failures. 892 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,120 Steve is bitten up by bats, like Eddie dies. 893 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,560 And then we we like continue to find different things like the 894 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,240 light bright situation of communicating, like through the 895 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,400 lights. That was really cool. 896 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,520 That was like put us in the peril a little bit longer 897 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,320 instead of rehashing and literally like telling us 898 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,560 through characters giving speeches or having conversations 899 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,000 with one another what is happening in the story. 900 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,320 Like give us the what's happening or like that was just 901 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,400 so weird to me too, because we've seen that happen in other 902 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,800 seasons. I think there are parts of, I'm 903 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:46,800 forgetting season 2-3 and mostly two and three and then like 4, 904 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,120 though in certain aspects where there were episodes that I was 905 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,600 kind of shocked. Like, why are we? 906 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,200 Why is someone telling me, like, what's happening? 907 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,000 And that mostly happened again in like the prison Russian 908 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,440 prison sequence. Where we kept. 909 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,760 Yeah, had to like keep going back to like, what's happening 910 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,200 here. Like, let's tell they're going 911 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,400 to tell us what happened in the previous seasons and Hopper's 912 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,680 relationship to Elle. It was just like, why are we 913 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,560 rehashing this? And it was especially like if 914 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,760 the Duffers were going to decide to break this up into three 915 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:22,560 parts, a a terrible decision to be like, well, it's very short 916 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,280 sighted. I think to to be like, well, 917 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,000 they just watched the first part. 918 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:28,320 Now there's a couple weeks between it. 919 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,480 Let's remind them in the first episode of Part 2, everything 920 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,960 that happened. It makes it a terrible viewing 921 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,600 experience, super anticlimactic. And I think you know, especially 922 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:45,040 when you end with a really strong and to Part 1 of will the 923 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,400 sorcerer like. Which was one of the coolest 924 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,080 moments of this show. Definitely one of the yeah so 925 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,680 cool. Like, loved it. 926 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:56,680 And felt deserved. But also then they they did do a 927 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,960 lot with like the Harry Potter, Voldemort, right, being 928 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,680 connected, but at the same time didn't like there are a lot of 929 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,160 plot holes then within this. And and then you know, the 930 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,320 following episode, if you're if you're just re watching it, like 931 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,560 for people who didn't watch it in the sequence of when it came 932 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,840 out, they're just going to watch like season 5 and binge it. 933 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,480 It's it will be a very strange experience. 934 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,360 I think to go from Will being a source for to then the next like 935 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,880 2 episodes of just let's rehash what happened in the first part 936 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,600 of this very short short season. Yeah, Speaking of Will, let's 937 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,200 talk about him because he is one of the main characters of the 938 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,280 show. I you think you could make an 939 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,640 argument he is the main character? 940 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,560 I think 11 is like. Aesthetically, the main 941 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,840 character. But yeah, but he seems to be the 942 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,920 emotional center of the show in terms of like Joyce and her 943 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,040 pursuit and back then his pursuit from Season 1 to Season 944 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,200 5. I think the setup to Will's 945 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,600 character is perfect in Season 1. 946 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,920 It's the show at its best where we have this great mystery 947 00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,320 coming of age drama, genuinely scary sci-fi fantasy all 948 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,960 operating at once, multi toned, multi genre. 949 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,400 And Will is this incredibly cute kid with a bowl cut, innocent 950 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,640 loves playing games with his friends, is a kind of a mommy's 951 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,640 boy but in a very kind of like loving way, has a nice 952 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,080 relationship with his brother. Father is an asshole and missing 953 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,800 so you kind of feel bad for him. He's a sympathetic character and 954 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,280 the performance is is you would think. 955 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,200 I think the performance is really good or the directors are 956 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,080 just good at directing kids in Season 1. 957 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,000 I can't really tell. Yeah, I mean, all the kids, I 958 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,120 wouldn't say they're like amazing performers, but they 959 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:43,800 feel like they're able to be genuine kids and not give like a 960 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,960 noticeable performance, right, Which I think is like both, 961 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,520 right. So like, the kids in all their 962 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,920 interviews were talked a lot about how the Duffer brothers 963 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,320 made them feel comfortable to just kind of like be creative 964 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,640 and acting on set. And I think just like the kids 965 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,880 being comfortable with one another and acting like kids 966 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,400 like was the strength, right? I felt like they were being 967 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:10,440 goofy and. Especially Lucas and Mike. 968 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,440 Yeah, yeah. But Mike does have some like 969 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,280 stand out monologues, I'm very sure of himself like Kid, which 970 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,760 is very funny and and really worked for his character. 971 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,280 I easily the best child performer when they're kids, and 972 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,080 then when they're teenagers, it's probably Dustin. 973 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,880 I agree, Yeah. I agree yeah, but I think like, 974 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:37,720 you know, having Lucas and Mike fight around like the the kind 975 00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:42,040 of Mike's attention to 11 and not and not looking for like 976 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,480 Will like that conflict feels realized and Gaytan wanting to 977 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,760 just like everyone to be happy. And then also like Will, you 978 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,320 know, feeling there are like good child performances here of 979 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,280 like Will feeling, you know, connected to his friends, but at 980 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,920 the same time like an outsider even to his friends. 981 00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:04,640 And they show that in terms of a class in in different ways where 982 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,360 he, you know, only has his mom, only has his brother, right? 983 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,400 And they're living in a house that's falling apart. 984 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,320 Yeah, and and you can see him like feeling like he connects to 985 00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,400 Mike in particular and to his friends, but also feels like 986 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,440 just a little bit like not living the same life as them or, 987 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,120 you know what he like kind of imagines in terms of this like 988 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,040 nuclear family in the 80s. And he's a good artist and 989 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,400 there's a lot to love about Will in Season 1. 990 00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:34,680 And Will goes missing, and that's the center of Stranger 991 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,400 Things is this missing kid who has a sort of broken family that 992 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,160 still loves him, that is creating a found family that 993 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,360 also feels other by like mainstream society as we learn 994 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,000 more that he's bullied for potentially being gay and we 995 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,120 learned he is gay. And it's really clear also in 996 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,840 the first season, I think, like the first or second episode, you 997 00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,640 know, Winona talks about how the father who left right always, 998 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,360 like called him queer. And then also the bullies in 999 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:06,320 particular, right? Like. 1000 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,480 Fuck those kids, yeah. Make a lot of like comments, 1001 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,600 good performances. Yeah, you you can tell they're 1002 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,840 essentially like the from weapons, like Josh Brolin and 1003 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,720 his their dad, right. And so like there's a there's a 1004 00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:23,120 lot there in in terms of like Will's character that wasn't 1005 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,320 yes, it was returned to a little bit, yeah, throughout the 1006 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,400 seasons. But I feel I wish they they kind 1007 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:36,560 of like focused in on like that aspect a little bit more 1008 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,600 throughout the season. So it wasn't just rushed at the 1009 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,800 end to like have this coming out scene for Will. 1010 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,520 Well, the tension of season 1 and season 2 is learning 1011 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,720 obviously about 11, the superpowers, the upside down, 1012 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,200 but it's also about the disappearance of Will, where is 1013 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,400 Will and his disappearance becomes the loaded metaphor of 1014 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,520 the entire series. This this metaphor of otherness 1015 00:51:56,520 --> 00:52:00,520 about growing up queer in a hostile environment in the 80s, 1016 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,040 about being erased, maybe kidnapped, maybe assaulted. 1017 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,920 There's a lot of like allusions to a lot of traumatic things 1018 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,160 that have happened to Will through his childhood. 1019 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,960 And so he is the most frustrating character in 1020 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,240 Stranger Things because he is simultaneously what makes me so 1021 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,000 emotionally connected to the first few seasons, but also 1022 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,600 makes me so emotionally disconnected in future seasons 1023 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,920 because he basically in seasons 3 and 4 becomes just this like 1024 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,040 plot device to connect to the mind flare. 1025 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,080 And that does work in terms of the PTSD. 1026 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,480 And we get a lot of PTSD moments with him of having these like 1027 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,520 visions being shot back into the upside down in season 2 in 1028 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,840 particular, and him learning from Sean Astin that he should 1029 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,040 just like bully the Mind Flayer and the Mind Flayer fucks will 1030 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:43,440 up. Yeah, go away. 1031 00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:44,840 Yeah, go. Great advice. 1032 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,160 Does not work. Good acting though. 1033 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:52,440 Yeah, and yeah, it's a really, again, a really smart long term 1034 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,840 metaphor. The show continues throughout 1035 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,920 the entire series and then season 5 almost nails the 1036 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,760 payoff. And Noah is a snap, right? 1037 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,200 No snap does a good job. Wait, let me confirm that. 1038 00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:04,520 Is it Noah snap? I feel like I'm saying that 1039 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,640 wrong. Noah snap is Will Byers. 1040 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,840 In season 5 it is revealed that he is a gay. 1041 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,160 Nice Wikipedia. Is that what Wikipedia says? 1042 00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:18,240 Oh my God. OK, so in season 5, the twist, 1043 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,960 but also something that is I think interesting and good and 1044 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,960 bad ways is will basically becomes Harry Potter where the 1045 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,160 thing that makes him, that made him quote UN quote different. 1046 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,760 The thing that led to other people hurting him becomes the 1047 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:39,280 thing he has to reclaim and weaponize to be a super hero, 1048 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,400 essentially to be a sorcerer, right? 1049 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,080 It's sorcerer, right? Not a what do they say, a 1050 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,840 magician or. He's not a wizard, he's a 1051 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,960 sorcerer. Erica and Mike have a really 1052 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,120 like cute funny scene of it being like it. 1053 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:52,720 Matters it matters. It's different. 1054 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,640 So what's beautiful about Season 5 is they do reclaim his 1055 00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,560 otherness, his queerness, his connection to the upside down 1056 00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,000 all together as like this strength. 1057 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,600 And that's what he's like coming out scene is supposed to 1058 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:08,360 represent. And so you know where we go back 1059 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,000 to episode 4 of Season 5 and you have Will taking out the 1060 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,000 Demogorgens and we get genuinely great filmmaking to help the 1061 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,240 performance. It's the first time in years 1062 00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:18,880 that I think Noah Schnapp and that character fully convinced 1063 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,000 me they were going somewhere interesting finally with Will 1064 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:26,600 since season one or two. But then the coming out scene 1065 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,800 happens. And even though I think it made 1066 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:35,520 sense on paper, it felt so weirdly mishandled, like, 1067 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:41,560 visually editing wise, some of the direction of the performers 1068 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,200 in the periphery of the scene, some people who were in the room 1069 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,440 who must have been confused about what was happening. 1070 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,560 And it was, it was frustrating. But it was also very strangely 1071 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,200 emotionally cringe because I was emotional watching a character I 1072 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,880 cared about that I have like, you know, frustrating feelings 1073 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,200 about, especially the actor. And then but I I cared about 1074 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:10,240 this family seeing Will and Will accepting who he is and them so 1075 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,360 happy that he's finally accepting himself as they've 1076 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,920 accepted and supported him around his friends and 1077 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:16,400 everything. But the way they set it up, 1078 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,440 where he's about to reveal all this to Winona Ryder and then he 1079 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,240 sees Finn. Which actually would have been 1080 00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:24,880 like a beautiful scene. Been great for Winona too, Yeah, 1081 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,800 as a kind of sign off to her character and feeling like she 1082 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,640 did a good job as a mother to support him. 1083 00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,680 Or just being like, well, because you're about to set it 1084 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,560 up. He's about to tell Winona. 1085 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,360 Yeah. And. 1086 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,840 And the reason also too, like he, it is like Vecna just gave 1087 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,160 me, like you kind of talked about earlier, right, this 1088 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,160 vision. And so I, I don't think that's 1089 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:44,840 true. Like this is what people are 1090 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,560 telling me, but I know the people in my life like love me. 1091 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:51,280 And so I'm going to tell Winona. Mike comes in to tell them we 1092 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,480 got to leave in like 5 minutes and he says you should actually 1093 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,200 be here for this too. I was like, OK, that's, you 1094 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,600 know, that makes sense too. That feels like, I guess just 1095 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,200 emotionally realistic within the story and the friendships and 1096 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,520 relationships in this in this. But then he goes, which feels in 1097 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,760 like a forced plot device insert. 1098 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,480 Actually, everyone should be here for this. 1099 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:19,120 And then the cut to everyone just like staring at him from 1100 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:24,200 the cast, like everyone is there and you know, there there is 1101 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,160 like obviously the reason the Duffers probably did this was 1102 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,880 like showing that like all of the different again, like this 1103 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,920 is a story about a lot of like different people who feel like 1104 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,080 outsiders. So this whole crew, this whole 1105 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,160 team, the party is growing, but it's just so jarring and so 1106 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:46,360 forced to have this like whole collective room looking at no or 1107 00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,000 looking at Will. And then the the performance is 1108 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:54,520 good from Noah. But yeah, it felt just like it 1109 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,640 felt disconnected, right? Like emotionally disconnected. 1110 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,280 And yes, I cried one because of like the journey with Will's 1111 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,680 character, but also like obviously like a broader 1112 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,520 connection to just like coming out and so. 1113 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,800 And Jonathan, Charlie Heaton's performance is Jonathan going up 1114 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,120 to hug him first? But then it just felt like 1115 00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,320 beautiful. Yeah, it it obviously was like 1116 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:22,520 a, a really like emotionally like strong scene to see all of 1117 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:27,840 the different characters in his life, like Dustin, Mike, Lucas, 1118 00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:29,960 like say yes, like we accept you. 1119 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,520 But what felt weird was the second part of like everyone who 1120 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,960 didn't get up to hug him, you know, like, it just you felt 1121 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,720 like the disconnect of the, the relationships that haven't been 1122 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,760 like through lines throughout the the story. 1123 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,200 And you only have so much time. So like, he doesn't need to be 1124 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:46,840 best friends with like Nancy Wheeler. 1125 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,360 But having the making the decision to cut to them and 1126 00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,720 they're just like, sitting there felt weird. 1127 00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,760 The the girl that Robin had a crush on. 1128 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,920 Oh yeah, he was. Like and that's and Mike was my 1129 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:02,240 Tammy basically, even though he didn't. 1130 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:02,560 Say Mike. Yeah. 1131 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,440 He's like, I had a friend who was my Tammy. 1132 00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,480 And I think Mike, you could kind of see Finn, I don't know if I'm 1133 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,920 reading into this, but like doing like a double take of like 1134 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,720 him knowing that his character has to sort of connect the dots 1135 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,120 here because he doesn't know who Tammy is. 1136 00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:15,960 And also he's like, wait, who is that friend? 1137 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,240 No one knows who Tammy is except for Robin. 1138 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,400 Yeah. Yeah, which then I assume Finn 1139 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,880 doesn't like, I assume Mike doesn't know that Will was 1140 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,320 talking about him because in season, in the last episode that 1141 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,320 we just watched, he says you're not just my friend. 1142 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,400 And they pause for an awkwardly long time. 1143 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:35,760 He's like, you're my best friend. 1144 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:36,960 Yeah. And I was like, what the fuck 1145 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:38,520 was that? It was just so strange. 1146 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,800 Choice from the writing and also the way they directed the 1147 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,200 performers there. Yeah, although we were like, you 1148 00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,800 know, that's it's nice that, you know, Mike apologized and he was 1149 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,000 like, I obviously. It was nice. 1150 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,920 Yeah. Wasn't paying attention to like, 1151 00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,080 what was going on emotionally with you, like what you must 1152 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,440 have been going through. And like, I, I basically wish 1153 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,920 that I'd been there for you. It it is interesting though, 1154 00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,840 because earlier and I forget which season, it must be season 1155 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,080 2 when Will comes back. And there's that kind of whole 1156 00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,960 conflict with him wanting to play DND and everyone else being 1157 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,600 interested in like relationships or girls. 1158 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,520 And Mike yells at him at one point like, it's not my fault 1159 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,360 you don't like girls. And so it was interesting to 1160 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,240 like have this brought back where Mike was just because now 1161 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,880 at this point after the California storyline, which is. 1162 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,720 Pretty bad storyline. Yeah, like we're. 11. 1163 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:34,360 Yeah, 11 Taking a skate to a person's face was pretty wild. 1164 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:39,480 I was pro. Yeah, but and so like, but 11 1165 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,680 lying to Mike, right. And then Mike, and she's like 1166 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:45,160 you. Never say it. 1167 00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,640 He's like, say what she's like. You never say I love you. 1168 00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,360 I mean, how does this show end? 11's like I love you. 1169 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,960 And Mike just stares at 11 in the Upside Down or wherever that 1170 00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,240 Little Dream. Yeah. 1171 00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,240 Spaces. But that, yeah, that whole weird 1172 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:02,000 portion of then you know how Steve and Dustin kind of 1173 01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,880 fighting this season felt unrealistic? 1174 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,040 But also felt weird with Will and Mike like it did to a 1175 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:12,600 certain extent of of will being like, I'm just or sorry, Mike 1176 01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,880 just being like, I'm just your friend, like elevens my 1177 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:16,120 girlfriend. That's why I call her all the 1178 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,160 time. But also he's like not, you 1179 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,640 know, paying attention to their friendship. 1180 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,840 So I mean it feels realistic in terms of like the actual plot 1181 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,000 but the the performances next to each other and the continuous 1182 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:32,240 like them being in a room fighting got tired and felt 1183 01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,560 weird so like. And Will painted him a picture 1184 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,080 in season. Yeah. 1185 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,640 And Mike has that picture on his wall at the end of this series 1186 01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,480 and epilogue when he's writing a story. 1187 01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:47,960 And he thinks that 11 asked Will, I think, to make him that 1188 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:49,400 painting. And Will never told him that it 1189 01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:50,840 was basically a love letter to him. 1190 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,880 There's a lot of unspoken shit in the show that they fucked. 1191 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,280 Up on but I guess like yes, it was a nice scene for Mike to say 1192 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,640 like, I'm really sorry I was so focused on myself and like 11. 1193 01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,640 I wasn't even paying attention to you. 1194 01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,440 Like that was nice, but it would have been I guess nice to be 1195 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,520 like, I just I nod to how like I was kind of an asshole. 1196 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,920 Like I was, you know, a little bit more. 1197 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,040 You don't have to give specifics, but like it. 1198 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:16,160 Yeah. Anyway. 1199 01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:20,400 So like these are examples again of like Season 5 being a weird 1200 01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:25,600 like putting a bow on something but it just like felt undeserved 1201 01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,800 or like emotionally like deep enough. 1202 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,600 Yeah, inconsistent too. I mean, if you are critical of 1203 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,520 Season 5, I would, you know, in that coming out scene, I would 1204 01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,600 direct you to Robin coming out to Steve as one of the great 1205 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,680 scenes ever in television, inside the mall, in the bathroom 1206 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,120 when they're high. It's incredible. 1207 01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:46,880 That's an incredible scene for so many reasons. 1208 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,240 And the performances from both of them are wonderful in that 1209 01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,960 moment. And it showed you the Duffers 1210 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,440 could direct and write a scene like that beautifully. 1211 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,160 And so you get to your point, the Noah's sports. 1212 01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,440 Yeah, the scene in season 5 with Will. 1213 01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,800 The point I was getting to though, in terms of like on 1214 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,360 paper, I can see why reclaiming the very thing about you that 1215 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,880 has othered you, giving you a superpower and then kind of 1216 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,320 weaponizing the Vecna abuse to use it against Vecna. 1217 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,120 I love that on idea on paper. And they got there with episode 1218 01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,680 4 when he like breaks those Demogorgon's arms and shit like 1219 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,040 that to protect his friends. That was dope. 1220 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:27,200 However, when we get to this final episode and Will goes to 1221 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,520 get into Vecna's mind to fuck with him in a mind flare in the 1222 01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,800 core conceit of this entire show when it comes to Vecna and Will 1223 01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,560 is that hurting Vecna and hurting the mind flare hurts 1224 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:39,480 Will and that their pain is linked. 1225 01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,920 It just disappears in the finale. 1226 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,240 Like when Vecna dies, the mind flare dies and Will is fine. 1227 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,080 Which is my issue thematically, because if he's Harry Potter, 1228 01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,360 Will Will would be a sacrificial character. 1229 01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:56,000 And that would make sense to me because in some ways, Will's 1230 01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,600 been dead since Season 1. In season 2, which is a really 1231 01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,480 fun kind of mystery of like he likes it cold, like finding out 1232 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,840 that Will actually has the Mind Flayer in him, which is then 1233 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:09,520 Vecna, which you find out later on, obviously. 1234 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,000 But Mike realizes that Will in the hospital when they're in 1235 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:19,240 Hawkins Lab is actually not Will and has told the hive mind, 1236 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,040 right, that everyone's in the hospital and that they're that 1237 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:24,680 like they're in one place to strike. 1238 01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,280 And Mike is like he's not him, you know, like Will is not Will 1239 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,840 and and that whole kind of reveal. 1240 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,560 But you're right, like especially in that sequence. 1241 01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:39,640 And then as we go further into the story, like when they burn 1242 01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:44,760 part of the the vines or one of the like slug things, right, 1243 01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,120 that comes from the upside down, Will is an excruciating pain. 1244 01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,880 Like he's screaming. I think there is actually one 1245 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,240 point when, yeah, when the whole thing's on fire, he starts like 1246 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,640 shaking and convulsing. Like he right at the end of that 1247 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:02,160 is a really scary like seizing rate moment. 1248 01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:04,760 And so you're right like I'm it's, it's surprising that 1249 01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,840 nothing happened to Will once the upside down is destroyed. 1250 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:08,760 Well. It seems like they were like, 1251 01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,120 let's sacrifice 11 instead. Yeah. 1252 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,000 I just think that was a bad decision in terms of the 1253 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,960 emotions of the show. I'm not saying that we should 1254 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,320 kill like the will just to kill will. 1255 01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:20,800 I think it made sense thematically. 1256 01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:22,280 I think. I also think it makes sense 1257 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:23,960 metaphorically. I think a large part of the show 1258 01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:28,200 is about like maybe maybe nodding to suicide or nodding to 1259 01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,960 murder, nodding to assault or nodding to kidnapping and the 1260 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,680 loss of Will. The show was inspired by 1261 01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,600 prisoners, the Denis Denis Villeneuve film. 1262 01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,200 Brothers use prisoners, inspire them to make a show about Will. 1263 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,320 And I think they should have doubled down on that because I 1264 01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,880 think a part of the show has been Joyce and Will. 1265 01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,400 I feel like we never really got an end to Joyce's character and 1266 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,560 her and her her raising of Will and Jonathan instead. 1267 01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,520 Of like cutting Vecna's head off. 1268 01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:54,200 Yeah, she's like you fucked with the wrong. 1269 01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,040 Fan which at one point I was like damn, like I know that like 1270 01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,240 going back to season 4, Vecna was a wild like Freddy Krueger. 1271 01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:05,080 He was a scary person. But I mean, the seven hits I was 1272 01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,880 like starting to feel bad for. Well, that was interesting 1273 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,520 because when we Start learning more about the Vecna origin 1274 01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,560 story and him as a kid and getting shot in the hand and 1275 01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,000 getting that stone, whatever the fuck that was in the briefcase 1276 01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,600 that gave him his powers, and we get like a Vecna origin story. 1277 01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,640 I was really worried that we were going to start feeling bad 1278 01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,440 for Vecna and being overly sympathetic for Henry but being 1279 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:27,240 critical of Vecna because Vecna is embodiment of the mind flare 1280 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,120 and Henry is an innocent victim who was maybe traumatized 1281 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,120 himself in that cave, which is why he didn't want to come out 1282 01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,960 of it or sorry, go inside of it. I was really worried in like the 1283 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,280 last episode that we were going to go do that kind of like 1284 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,760 Hunger Games. What is that songbirds and 1285 01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:42,880 snakes movie? Where? 1286 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,440 Where we get like President Snow's back. 1287 01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,880 The fascist is like hot and had a sad story if that makes sense. 1288 01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,760 You know I was also. Are they going to do that here? 1289 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,920 Yeah, I was also thinking when we're in the like lab with all 1290 01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,960 the different numbers, that would have been a cooler story 1291 01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,320 to tell instead of like President Snow. 1292 01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,560 This is not a Hunger Games podcast, sorry, but like the the 1293 01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:08,440 capital, like the District 1 and 2, like how they raised and like 1294 01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,880 how you know what I mean instead of them being in like this elite 1295 01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,600 school regardless, anyway, keep going we'll. 1296 01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,880 Go back and I'll edit that out and put that in The Hunger Games 1297 01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,640 episode on page around. But instead they kind of go the 1298 01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:22,600 opposite direction where they're like, we're not going to be 1299 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,280 sympathetic to Henry. In fact, we're going to have 1300 01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,360 Henry say some crazy shit, which is like, I actually chose to be 1301 01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:29,160 back now. I wanted to work with the mind 1302 01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,360 flare and it actually threw me off even more in a strange way 1303 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,600 where I was like, wait, what? Like he's pure evil. 1304 01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,320 Like I don't understand. I actually kind of feel bad for 1305 01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:42,120 the character now that they wrote him that way ANYWAYS, So I 1306 01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,400 guess yeah, don't fuck with the the buyers family. 1307 01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,720 Yeah, well, there. Yeah, that is really strange 1308 01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:51,000 because in season 4 we kind of get the reveal that the power 1309 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:55,760 made him feel like, you know, he him as an outsider, like the 1310 01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,040 kids and Stranger Things, right, playing with spiders in his 1311 01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:02,440 addict you know whatever. Maybe didn't have D&D or people 1312 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,480 nearby then I. Thought they made him a queer 1313 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:07,680 coded character as well. I thought they're going in that 1314 01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,080 direction with it. Right, so like to you're so 1315 01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,760 right to have this whole like here, all of Vecna's dreams are 1316 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:16,920 whatever memories, right that we keep going back to. 1317 01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,800 We're going to have a big reveal of like why he is the way he is. 1318 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,720 And then immediately like after we find out, have that switch 1319 01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,920 up, have that like no, we rely on each other. 1320 01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:31,360 I am glad, yes, that we didn't have a total like Vecna. 1321 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,080 Let's make sure that we understand like everything about 1322 01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:36,400 him and why he made the decision. 1323 01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,600 Like we don't need to go that deep into The Cave. 1324 01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:43,000 But you're right, it was a very like abrupt switch up, 1325 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,000 especially because then he just like dies immediately after and 1326 01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,480 you're like, wait, it's this easy to kill him? 1327 01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,480 Like it just everything happened so fast. 1328 01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,000 And I guess they said don't. What did you think when they 1329 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,160 showed the whole high school pamphlet thing of coming out to 1330 01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:01,880 that party near the caves with all the kids parents when they 1331 01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,320 were younger? In high school, in the. 1332 01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,880 Hallway in the hallway. How did you take that? 1333 01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,200 Because I I thought they're going the direction of oh, all 1334 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,520 these kids were chosen by Beckna in the mind flare through Beckna 1335 01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,640 because their parents bullied. Yeah, I thought we were going to 1336 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,000 get a bullying scene of Batman. Yeah, they fucked him up in that 1337 01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:18,800 cave. Yeah. 1338 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:22,040 And it felt like, I feel like I'm not off base and assuming 1339 01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:23,200 that. And it feels like they totally 1340 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,120 were, like, we're not going to, this is going to take too long. 1341 01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,720 And they go to like, he shot this random guy, shot him in a 1342 01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,279 cave and it was traumatic for him, right. 1343 01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:30,840 Yeah. So. 1344 01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:34,240 Marvel, Yeah. Strange. 1345 01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:36,200 But I totally have the same thing. 1346 01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:39,800 I thought like the we're going to see different people, like 1347 01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,000 getting bullied essentially similar to how we saw in the 1348 01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,319 first season of how Mike, Dustin and Lucas had to kind of like 1349 01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:50,960 figure things out on their own in order to say, well. 1350 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,000 Other characters Mike and 11. Anything you want to say about 1351 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,960 them 11? I've never really loved like 1352 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,920 Mike and 11 as a relationship. I've loved Mike. 1353 01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:07,880 I think 11 I was, you know, I was never totally in on her 1354 01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,680 character because I didn't like that the only like girl in the 1355 01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:14,760 group was silent. I know it was a part of the 1356 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,960 plot, and that's fine, but it's a great point. 1357 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,760 It just felt like increasingly kind of annoying, especially 1358 01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,479 when we get to Season 2 and we have like Hopper and 11:00 and 1359 01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:30,240 then when we finally, I think the the good part of 11's 1360 01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:34,120 character is when she meets Max and she's like, and Max is like 1361 01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:38,240 who like who are you outside of the men in your life 1362 01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,720 essentially, right, Like Hopper and Mike and like find this this 1363 01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:43,560 clothing that is like fun for you, whatever. 1364 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:45,960 So like that and. Then they never come back to. 1365 01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,960 That never come back yeah but that that best friend Max 1366 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:53,000 sequence of like her reading comics with Max and finding out 1367 01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,240 about like Wonder Woman. I think whoever was but that was 1368 01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,400 all really fun and having a 11 kind of develop her own 1369 01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:03,720 character and personality. I understand, you know, for 1370 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,000 listeners who don't feel that way, like that there maybe was a 1371 01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:11,720 certain amount of time that we just needed for 11 to be ET. 1372 01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,760 You know, she literally is ET and Mike is Elliot. 1373 01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,240 And so I, I totally get that, but it just never, I was never 1374 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:22,320 like, Oh yeah, I love Mike and 11:00 because Mike is 1375 01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,400 essentially in love with someone who can't talk. 1376 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:31,400 And even though again, like he's identifying this like outsider, 1377 01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,960 you know, the, the reading that I get is that like he's 1378 01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,600 identifying that she feels different and so does he. 1379 01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,120 Right, except they have to play down the fact that film wolf 1380 01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,160 hard becomes like an incredibly conventionally attractive as 1381 01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:46,320 like this like 6 foot 3 white man with like incredible jaw 1382 01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,440 structure and and cheekbones. All the Wheelers, it's crazy. 1383 01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:52,200 The Wheelers, yeah. Beautiful people, Nancy and Ted 1384 01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,840 Mike's jawline. Ted has his moments when he was 1385 01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,520 hitting they had the 9 iron outside. 1386 01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:03,360 I was like good on you Ted. I like M11 at least I did. 1387 01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:06,520 The first two seasons of M11 I I thought were really cute. 1388 01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,760 I thought they were well done of like first love kind of stuff. 1389 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,320 And they had a real kind of like going to your point, it is a 1390 01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,720 little bit problematic but an unspoken protectiveness over one 1391 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,760 another that I felt was genuine and sweet. 1392 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,280 And I think Finn Wolfhard as a young boy is really sassy and 1393 01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:26,400 and angry and kind of anxious and manic. 1394 01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:28,400 Yeah. Screaming at his mom or sister 1395 01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:31,040 were awesome moments. Or talking about his sister 1396 01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,640 studying the human anatomy with Steve at the. 1397 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,240 Breakfast table. And he's got a ride or die 1398 01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,760 energy for his friends. And in that season, he tells 1399 01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,120 Dustin when they're looking for like Lucas or whatever that 1400 01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:43,600 Dustin feels like kind of left out. 1401 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,120 You're part of the group, dude. Like you're you can have more 1402 01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:50,080 than one best friend. He carries a lot of season 1 1403 01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:54,800 with those kids Finn Wolfhard does and the snowball dance in 1404 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,360 season 2. That was like one of the purest 1405 01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,080 moments in like, coming of age stories and TV. 1406 01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,480 But once the kids start becoming young adults around Season 3 and 1407 01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:06,880 Max comes into the story, something does break a little 1408 01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:08,320 bit. As soon as we can start getting 1409 01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,800 into like Hopper Moore's dad and like needing the door, what is 1410 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:14,160 it like? 3 inches open 3 inches. 1411 01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:18,560 Open, which is a funny bit between the two characters, but 1412 01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,480 the chemistry between Mike and 11 and specifically Finn and and 1413 01:12:21,480 --> 01:12:24,400 Millie really starts to disappear as they become young 1414 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:28,200 adults in real life. I'm not super plugged into the 1415 01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:29,720 pop culture because they're younger than us so I don't 1416 01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,160 really know what's going on, but it's always seemed to me that 1417 01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,240 they, I would assume, don't like. 1418 01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:35,480 Each other, they seem like, Yeah. 1419 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,440 They seem very different in real life and interviews that I've 1420 01:12:38,440 --> 01:12:40,440 seen. I've not I don't have any 1421 01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:43,160 evidence of that but their characters seem to like all 1422 01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:44,880 their love and like romantic stuff. 1423 01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:49,920 Feel so forced and overly gushy that a lot of it flattens Mikes 1424 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,640 character and elevens character. But specifically Mike, who goes 1425 01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,320 from being funny, neurotic and kind of perceptive to basically 1426 01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,520 self absorbed in season 3 and Season 4 to kind of annoying to 1427 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:03,840 being like one of the least interesting characters of the 1428 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:11,040 crew to season 5 where they're sort of like now you are just 1429 01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,440 reacting to everything. You come into rooms randomly and 1430 01:13:13,440 --> 01:13:15,400 you're reacting to what's happening in scenes. 1431 01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:19,280 So I found their use of him to be really fascinating and bad. 1432 01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:26,080 And then with 11 and Millie Bobby Brown, how do we talk 1433 01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,640 about this? She, I think this season exposed 1434 01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:33,840 how how little range she has as an actor. 1435 01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:37,880 Unfortunately, unfortunately for her because she is like 21 years 1436 01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,440 old and it is a superstar, but she's also a millionaire. 1437 01:13:40,440 --> 01:13:41,720 So I don't really, I don't really give a shit. 1438 01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:44,640 She's like that in this season. And also we got to see her in 1439 01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,360 what was Enola Holmes like? Also wasn't a great performance. 1440 01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,480 She's in a lot of Netflix films that I haven't seen at this 1441 01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:52,520 point. Yeah, but I saw Enola. 1442 01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:58,280 That was like the only one but 11 in her and to her credit, is 1443 01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,360 written as emotionally limited as you said, kind of symbolic 1444 01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:04,200 more than a person. And that leaves a little room 1445 01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,280 for any kind of like nuance or range. 1446 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,440 However, this season 11, even though they they were flattened, 1447 01:14:10,440 --> 01:14:14,680 it felt like she couldn't she just could not emote. 1448 01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,000 She couldn't emote. There was like no emotion. 1449 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:22,040 Her performance, it was very strange and I don't want to 1450 01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,680 really comment too much on like the stuff I've seen online about 1451 01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,400 like the procedures or filler. Clearly like something happened 1452 01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,840 mid season where her face is a little bit more puffy and it's 1453 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,240 hard for her to emote. And so it's not really what I'm 1454 01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,320 commenting on. And I'm aware also of I can't 1455 01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,440 imagine what it's like to be a young girl in Hollywood being a 1456 01:14:39,440 --> 01:14:43,840 superstar and like, being associated with Drake as a 15 1457 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,080 year old, which is fucking weird. 1458 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,400 But like, I can't. I just don't know what her life 1459 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,960 was probably like as a teenager. So we're not going to comment on 1460 01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:51,560 like, the beauty standards of Millie Bobby Brown. 1461 01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:55,000 But it was a really bad performance this season. 1462 01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,640 And I think it it showed and how much the show focused on Holly 1463 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,480 and got away from 11. And Holly, the actress who plays 1464 01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:04,400 her, I don't have her name here, but she did a pretty good job. 1465 01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,520 But she felt kind of like a younger Millie Bobby Brown, for 1466 01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,600 good and bad. Yeah, I think, I mean, I, I 1467 01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,680 totally agree. I, I think it's tough because 1468 01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:17,440 this show cast, you know, the child actors when they were kids 1469 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,320 and they were, you know, looking at like probably who has 1470 01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:26,560 chemistry, like with friendship among these kids and who can 1471 01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,400 stand out or like who, because she does do a really great job, 1472 01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:34,440 like as a child actor just emoting this like concern for 1473 01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:38,640 her friends, confusion around like, what's the thing? 1474 01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:41,160 Friends don't lie. Like learning different right 1475 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,000 aspects of, of the, the world outside of Hawkins Lab. 1476 01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,160 And so like, that is the, the baseline of like where they're 1477 01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,840 casting these kids and then are obviously keeping them for the 1478 01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,880 remainder of the show that they didn't even know was going to 1479 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,160 blow up. I will say that I think the best 1480 01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:01,360 actor of the kids, like the group is Max, right? 1481 01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:06,040 And that's because I think she was cast at a later time where 1482 01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,000 they could really actually see her acting chops, right. 1483 01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,240 But it's really interesting this like group of kids. 1484 01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,240 Now that Netflix feels like Disney. 1485 01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,760 I don't know if there are any like Disney original shows 1486 01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:19,440 anymore that are popular. I have no idea. 1487 01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:23,720 I have no idea, but it feels like these are like this 1488 01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:25,760 generation's Disney stars, right? 1489 01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:27,840 Like. Like the Zendaya's. 1490 01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,280 Yeah. So that's that's interesting. 1491 01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:34,160 But for our generation, like the child buffs. 1492 01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:36,200 Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, Yeah. 1493 01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:37,920 Well. Jennifer Lawrence wasn't, well, 1494 01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,280 I meant like I thought you're going more in the YA franchise 1495 01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:42,160 stuff like versus Stewart, Robert Pattinson. 1496 01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:43,560 Yeah, Yeah, yeah. That's also. 1497 01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,600 Logan Lehrman. Yeah, that makes sense. 1498 01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:47,720 Yeah. But yeah, but so that was like 1499 01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:52,120 interesting to to to think about because we have seen these like 1500 01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:57,320 kids grow up and you have also a relationship to or you're able 1501 01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:59,840 to see, I guess because I'm not as plugged in either. 1502 01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:04,200 But I've seen, you know, the interviews of the actors and 1503 01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,120 they're kind of it's like seeing the Harry Potter press run too, 1504 01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:08,360 right? They're kind of like fusing with 1505 01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:10,800 their characters, but you're able to see the difference in 1506 01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,120 their real personality versus their performance. 1507 01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:16,560 And so like, that also comes into watching the show when it's 1508 01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,320 underwritten. And then 11 only has so much to 1509 01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:20,000 do. That's. 1510 01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,280 True I guess like it's hard to disconnect the Millie Bobby 1511 01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,480 Brown from 11 when she doesn't have a lot of character in 1512 01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:28,480 season 5 So it's not really. But in fairness to the 1513 01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:30,920 criticism, she does look like she's doing the Zoolander face 1514 01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:31,720 for like half the. Season. 1515 01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:38,040 It's definitely blue steel. OK, so Lucas and Max, right I. 1516 01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,520 Very sweet. Yeah, I love their relationship 1517 01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,960 the most next to Nancy. I it would have been Nancy and 1518 01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:49,680 Jonathan if not for season 5 because they totally messed up 1519 01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:54,400 their relationship. But I think that Lucas and Max 1520 01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,640 are like the strongest relationship in the show. 1521 01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:01,040 They go through the best kind of Arc where, you know, Mad Max, 1522 01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:06,360 the excellent introduction to her beating all the the the 1523 01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:10,440 party right in their arcade game, finding out who is Mad Max 1524 01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:13,880 Max being introduced as this character who's like, well, I 1525 01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:15,200 don't want to be in your party anyway. 1526 01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:17,320 Like, why do you think I want to be in your party? 1527 01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:20,080 But she is actually really searching for a connection 1528 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:24,320 because she has like an basically abusive stepbrother, 1529 01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:27,880 right? And an absent mother and and 1530 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,960 stepfather figure who'd also now then we learned the stepfather 1531 01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:33,640 has abused Bill Billy from probably a young age. 1532 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:39,200 So living in a really like tumultuous like household, even 1533 01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:44,240 though she like seems to have this like nice home with like 1534 01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:45,920 mom, dad, brother. Sort of, yeah. 1535 01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,880 Well, I just mean like that compared to like her and her mom 1536 01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:54,400 then like going to like live in the trailer park and she gets 1537 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,120 like very depressed, right? And she feels like isolated from 1538 01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:00,800 the group. So yeah. 1539 01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,760 And then also then is like dealing with how her mom is, is 1540 01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,080 emotionally right? Like even though we don't really 1541 01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:09,960 meet her mom, but that's the kind of like the the background 1542 01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:12,880 of her talking to the counselor. She's like cleaning up after her 1543 01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:14,720 at night time after work. Yeah, so. 1544 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:20,280 So anyway, but Max is a really great character, I think, and I 1545 01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:25,640 love like the it's fine, like funny, cute, the Dustin Lucas 1546 01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,840 like being in love with Max, but especially like Lucas and Max's 1547 01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:33,440 relationship as they grow throughout the the seasons of 1548 01:19:34,480 --> 01:19:38,520 them like finding out that they kind of like like each other, 1549 01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:41,480 like the I think that's like the really sweet coming of age 1550 01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:45,200 moment of them kind of like recognizing that they feel like 1551 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,480 a friendship with each other, but also a connection with each 1552 01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:51,200 other and admire and respect each other as like kids. 1553 01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:55,560 Like that's really cute. But then also their their arc of 1554 01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:59,880 like Lucas wanting to maybe like be. 1555 01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,720 In the cool, you know, quote UN quote group like become a part 1556 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:08,160 of like the athlete jock crowd on the basketball team. 1557 01:20:08,440 --> 01:20:12,160 But then and it's a really sad scene too, 'cause he's deep into 1558 01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:15,960 where he tells Gaytan, who's his name? 1559 01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:17,360 Dustin, Gavin. Dustin. 1560 01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:19,640 Why do I always say Gavin? Gaytan Matarazzo. 1561 01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:21,880 OK. Yeah, Dustin and Mike, he's 1562 01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:23,400 like, I don't want to be bullied anymore. 1563 01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,840 Like I'm sick of being bullied. This is why I'm doing this 1564 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:28,720 'cause they're like, come to hell fire club. 1565 01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:32,680 And that's when we get awesome like the Erica, you know, Lady 1566 01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,600 Applejack like interaction, which is amazing. 1567 01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:39,360 But regardless, that Max being like depressed, being someone 1568 01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:45,360 who could be a target for Vecna and then Lucas like not knowing, 1569 01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,920 which feels like a realistic thing in this like coming of age 1570 01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,840 story as they get older, not knowing totally had like 1571 01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:53,280 emotionally communicate with Max, but he wants to be there 1572 01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,320 for her and is confused about what's going on. 1573 01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,760 It feels like the forces are like bigger than him and he 1574 01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:03,640 doesn't really have like the the tools to to navigate that as 1575 01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:05,440 they're both like, you know, growing up. 1576 01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:09,040 And I I think that really works. And especially then when 1577 01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,160 obviously Max is being taken by by Vecna and he's like, I'm 1578 01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:16,160 right here. Like, you know, that emotional 1579 01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:19,960 performance from from Lucas, like is so good. 1580 01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:23,960 Caleb McLaughlin is great as Lucas. 1581 01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:25,480 They really fucked up his haircut this season. 1582 01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:27,720 I can't believe whatever that wig is that they put on him. 1583 01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,800 I'm so sorry, but what I was going to say. 1584 01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,560 I I love his chemistry with with Sadie Sank, who's wonderful. 1585 01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:39,760 I love how Caleb plays into Lucas as if he just kind of like 1586 01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,560 in this way, he can't even express just really respect 1587 01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:46,120 strong woman. It's like a big part of his like 1588 01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:48,880 he hates, loves his sister, but it's like one of the strongest 1589 01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:53,600 young girls in the show. And then also has like a very 1590 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,320 like up and down relationship with Max where he really funnily 1591 01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,920 tells Mike in his basement. He's like, I have tried to get 1592 01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,560 back together with Max five times and I've succeeded every 1593 01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,920 time. He says it much better and 1594 01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,360 differently. But one big criticism I have 1595 01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:14,040 about this show is never meeting the Sinclair parents were long 1596 01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:17,800 enough. We've met and know enough of at 1597 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:22,000 least one of the parents of every one of the kids, if that 1598 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:23,840 makes sense, except Lucas's parent. 1599 01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,800 And it's definitely not an accident that that's because 1600 01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,560 he's basically the only black character or main character in 1601 01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:34,120 the show. And I'm saying that I, I, it's a 1602 01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:36,400 big criticism, not just because of the racial elements, 1603 01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:40,240 obviously, but like, because Lucas obviously was raised by a 1604 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:43,320 powerful, strong woman to connect that much with Erica, 1605 01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,680 who obviously was also raised by a very powerful, strong woman 1606 01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:48,360 and father. But for Lucas to be this 1607 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:51,440 interested and invested in Max, who's like this independent, 1608 01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:56,760 like free will badass, like he had to be around woman in his 1609 01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,400 life who were like that, to see that in Max at a young age. 1610 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:03,120 So it's a really big missed opportunity to not know the 1611 01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:05,320 Missus Sinclair character, even though we've seen them a few 1612 01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:06,720 times. Yeah, we've seen all the 1613 01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:09,720 parents, especially when we are in, I think season 4. 1614 01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:16,240 And we have the great kind of like cult moment of, of Jason, 1615 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,520 the blonde jock who was Chrissy's boyfriend, being like 1616 01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,880 going to the town hall, saying we need to get the Hellfire 1617 01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:24,600 Club. They are a cult and turning the 1618 01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:29,720 town into their own cult to like kind of create this militia that 1619 01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:33,920 goes searching for Eddie, right. So and in that moment, we have a 1620 01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,400 great emotional sequence that we really haven't gotten before of 1621 01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,120 the parents, like making eye contact with each other of like, 1622 01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:44,000 these are like sweet kids who like care about people. 1623 01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:48,080 And they are being villainized because they they aren't these 1624 01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:53,320 like jock figures or, or, you know, conforming in high school. 1625 01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:55,720 And so that was a really great moment. 1626 01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,280 And then all the like, parents together trying to keep the kids 1627 01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:03,480 in the house to figure out like where Eddie is or where, you 1628 01:24:03,480 --> 01:24:05,760 know, the different like, characters are. 1629 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,640 And then the kids going off to, you know, do the whole light 1630 01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:09,960 bright situation, which is great. 1631 01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,400 Like, that was good. And I think, you know, there's 1632 01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:18,240 an argument for the idea just in general with the parents of like 1633 01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:20,280 them kind of being the peanuts parents. 1634 01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:24,080 Like, why aren't like, you know, the the kids having to figure 1635 01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,320 things out on their own and strengthen the story. 1636 01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,800 But I mean, you're completely right. 1637 01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,920 And that we meet Misses Wheeler. We know we. 1638 01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,040 Know the Wheeler's bell? We know Dustin's mom pretty 1639 01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,640 well. We know conflict from Max's 1640 01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:40,360 parents because of the we. Meet her extended family at 1641 01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:42,120 least like we meet some of her family. 1642 01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:44,040 Max. Yeah, like Billy. 1643 01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,480 Oh yeah, I meant we know yeah, her the dynamic of the parents 1644 01:24:47,480 --> 01:24:50,920 at least because of how Billy the factors into this. 1645 01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,880 But we literally do not get the Sinclair parent like I think 1646 01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,200 there is. One, and obviously we know will. 1647 01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:58,000 But like, it's, it's such a, yeah, you're right. 1648 01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,480 It's such a missed opportunity, especially because Erica is such 1649 01:25:01,480 --> 01:25:07,720 a fun character and is obviously like, so like strong and direct, 1650 01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:09,440 like Max. So yeah. 1651 01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:12,800 And, and to go back to the Netflix point of it all, this is 1652 01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,640 going to be this was already a problem in Hollywood, but it's 1653 01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,720 going to be more of a problem with streaming as demographics 1654 01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:21,320 show who is watching shows and movies. 1655 01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:24,320 Shows and movies will then literally start to represent 1656 01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:27,000 those demographics. And so if Netflix finds that 1657 01:25:27,160 --> 01:25:30,160 their next Stranger Things has, you know, 10% of its audiences, 1658 01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:33,520 you know, people of colour, they will not put those characters in 1659 01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:34,960 the show. Like, that's how streaming is 1660 01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:36,200 going to work. There's not going to be some 1661 01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:39,440 kind of like bored on Netflix being like, well, we should make 1662 01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:41,960 this more inclusive. So it's important to identify 1663 01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:44,240 these things before it gets too late, even though I think we're 1664 01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:47,200 kind of already there, which. Is like why I like delightful 1665 01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,640 Derek, but it's also. Yeah, it felt unnecessary at the 1666 01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:54,080 same time. Also want to shout out Caleb 1667 01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:57,560 McLaughlin for being having one of the great cries on TV that 1668 01:25:57,560 --> 01:26:00,280 I've ever seen at the end of season 4 when he loses Max or he 1669 01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:01,920 thinks he loses Max and sort of does. 1670 01:26:02,480 --> 01:26:05,240 And then when she comes back and they're both crying and they 1671 01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,320 have that moment together, which is a really beautiful moment for 1672 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:10,360 getting through the after talking to Holly for 25 minutes 1673 01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,520 in the fucking Vecna world, going through the portal and 1674 01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:15,960 coming back to Lucas. OK. 1675 01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:18,080 Anything else to say about Dustin or did we already cover? 1676 01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:20,520 That no, I I will say when Max came back like you were just 1677 01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:22,440 talking about, I cried. Yeah. 1678 01:26:22,440 --> 01:26:24,600 Oh, I did too. Yeah, But it did feel like, you 1679 01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:29,000 know, again, to the point of Season 5 where Max and Holly, 1680 01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,160 you know, Max is obviously trying to tell Holly, like, and 1681 01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:34,160 help her, you know, find a portal back. 1682 01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,000 But Max's portal's open. And last time it got shut 1683 01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:39,760 because she couldn't make it quick enough. 1684 01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:43,200 But they're just talking for like 10 minutes. 1685 01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:48,000 This show feels this season felt simultaneously rushed with also 1686 01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,760 without urgency, which is very strange. 1687 01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:53,800 Yeah, like conflicting feelings about the whole season. 1688 01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:58,040 I did like the whole like Holly the brave or whatever, you know, 1689 01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:00,920 Mike giving Holly that figurine, very cute. 1690 01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,480 That was a really sweet, like a brother sister moment. 1691 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:08,480 And also the the Mr. What's it great mystery at the beginning, 1692 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:09,680 really creepy. Yeah. 1693 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:11,760 Like the collecting part of the season. 1694 01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:12,800 Yeah, was. Wild. 1695 01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:14,640 Yeah, I did like the first 4 episodes. 1696 01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:18,360 For anyone who gets motion sickness from like, spinning 1697 01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:23,800 rides, I have a bone to pick with the Duffer Brothers this 1698 01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:28,800 season of putting us on whatever that thing is called the What is 1699 01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:31,160 that thing called the. Wheel thing, yeah. 1700 01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:33,440 Yeah, yeah. What is that on that play? 1701 01:27:33,480 --> 01:27:34,720 Do they even have those on playgrounds? 1702 01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,360 So that I don't know anything. The spinny thing in the 1703 01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,600 playground, Too much of that swinging, too much motion shit. 1704 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:42,520 Merry go round. Yeah. 1705 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,480 Anything about Dustin? Are we good with Dustin? 1706 01:27:46,480 --> 01:27:48,120 We already talked enough about. Dustin, I think we talked enough 1707 01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:49,160 about Dustin. I've really. 1708 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,440 I have loved Excellent. Yeah, I have loved. 1709 01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:57,640 I think he, you're right, is the best actor of or one of the best 1710 01:27:57,640 --> 01:27:59,240 actors. Of the four boys. 1711 01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:04,000 Of the four boys. And I think though, that's a lot 1712 01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:08,160 of credit to having scenes with Joe Keery. 1713 01:28:08,440 --> 01:28:11,640 I I think it was a really good idea, especially in the mall 1714 01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,120 season, to put Dustin with Steve and Robin and Erica. 1715 01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:20,920 Like I loved going back to that segment of the story to the 1716 01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:23,280 point where I was like, I don't even really like want to be with 1717 01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,440 the core as much anymore. Like, I loved that group. 1718 01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:30,840 And so I think, you know, having Dustin and, and Steve taking him 1719 01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:33,680 at like under his wing was a really big strength of the the 1720 01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:36,760 series that ended up like really working out, deepening his 1721 01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:41,960 character and making him feel like he had his own storyline 1722 01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,120 with Steve, but was still connected to the party. 1723 01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:47,960 OK, so let's end the Steve conversation then. 1724 01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:50,840 Do you think Steve should have died? 1725 01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:52,080 Because that was a big thing going. 1726 01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:55,160 You die, I die, right? We thought for sure at least 1727 01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:57,600 Steve and Dustin would be peril together. 1728 01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:03,160 Instead they're just using their knives to cut the aliens. 1729 01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:07,520 Reference of the Mind Flayer. Yeah, the Mind Flayer. 1730 01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,880 They do a fake out with Steve and Hopper this season. 1731 01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:12,760 The Hopper thing is just complete bullshit. 1732 01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:13,760 I can't believe they fucking did. 1733 01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:15,520 That they should have killed Hopper I think. 1734 01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:18,040 Three seasons ago, yeah, it made a lot of sense. 1735 01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:21,760 Or two seasons ago, Steve sacrificing himself this season 1736 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:23,680 would have absolutely made sense. 1737 01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:27,320 And I, and there are some people like, who think death does not 1738 01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:32,600 mean stakes in storytelling. I think that's like, I don't 1739 01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:37,320 know, pretentious, like elitist, like film criticism of people 1740 01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:39,120 being like, there's other ways to create stakes in 1741 01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,520 storytelling. Death means everything, OK. 1742 01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,160 If characters die, it means something as long as we know the 1743 01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:46,880 characters, right? Death at the beginning of 1744 01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,280 stories doesn't really mean anything at the end of stories. 1745 01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:52,680 It actually means everything. And for Steve, he wants those 6 1746 01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:54,800 little Nuggets. He's got those two assholes 1747 01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:57,600 making fun of him privately, and then it's turned to him and he 1748 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,680 understands that Nancy told fucking Jonathan about his six 1749 01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:02,960 Nuggets. Which do I think it's weird to 1750 01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:05,680 like, want six kids as a man? That would be very strange to 1751 01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:07,400 put on another woman. Absolutely. 1752 01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:09,480 You know, in Steve's case, and for him to call them Nuggets, 1753 01:30:09,480 --> 01:30:13,240 all that stuff, whatever. You could do that too, but still 1754 01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,680 do Do families need 6 kids? I don't know, right? 1755 01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,520 But like, regardless, it's cute. Nancy turns into a joke. 1756 01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:21,480 Jonathan brings it up to him. The point of the six Nuggets is 1757 01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:23,760 that he has 6 Nuggets. He's been protecting the four 1758 01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,440 boys, the Core 411 and Max. Those are the six kids. 1759 01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:32,160 And so sacrificing himself in a way that was meaningful for 1760 01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:35,160 those six kids would have actually made his redemption arc 1761 01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:38,080 as a character and everything that he it was kind of an 1762 01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:40,560 asshole about and kind of part of the cool kids and feeling 1763 01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:41,920 regret about that. And he sort of feels like 1764 01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,480 stunted as a as a grown man at this point in the show, in the 1765 01:30:45,480 --> 01:30:49,040 story of the show, because he feels like he never left that 1766 01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:52,760 moment of what he did to enable his shitty friends to write 1767 01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,480 Nancy Wheeler's a slut or whatever on the movie theater 1768 01:30:55,480 --> 01:30:56,720 thing. And he feels like he's still 1769 01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:58,520 living in that moment as a character. 1770 01:30:58,520 --> 01:30:59,880 Yeah, he still feels like a lot of guilt. 1771 01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:03,560 And so for him to like pass on in a meaningful way, I think 1772 01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:04,680 would have been really impactful. 1773 01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:05,960 I can't believe they didn't do it. 1774 01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,480 I can't believe it. I thought for sure when they 1775 01:31:09,480 --> 01:31:12,400 said that if you die, I die. Which another Titanic kind of 1776 01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:16,600 like thing next to the Nancy and Jonathan Titanic scene. 1777 01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:18,680 Killing Dustin would have been a lot though. 1778 01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:22,560 Yeah, I thought it would have been like they would bring that 1779 01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:24,280 back. Like, it just made sense, right? 1780 01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:28,000 Where Steve was about to die, Dustin, like, goes to save him 1781 01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,400 and Steve's like, don't you know, like something like that, 1782 01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:33,040 right. Yeah, I think it would have made 1783 01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:36,880 sense to have Steve die. It was really annoying to have 1784 01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:40,440 the Hopper fake out. I guess Jonathan save Steve, 1785 01:31:40,440 --> 01:31:43,960 which was nice, but it made more sense for Dustin to save Steve 1786 01:31:44,480 --> 01:31:47,160 at at the whole point is that these kids are becoming adults, 1787 01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:48,720 which is what Steve is reckoning with. 1788 01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:51,160 He's not like coaching these kids anymore, right? 1789 01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:52,720 Like he's going to coach kids, obviously. 1790 01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:55,120 Like that's the point of his character arc is that he's got 1791 01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:57,520 to accept that Dustin's like becoming an adult now. 1792 01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:01,440 Yeah, it's it's. Just so I think it's poorly 1793 01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:03,400 handled. I mean, it's obviously so they 1794 01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:05,440 can have Steve if there's any future. 1795 01:32:05,440 --> 01:32:06,760 That's what it is, right? Yeah. 1796 01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:08,840 I didn't want to think that's what it was. 1797 01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:10,360 That's what it. Is but I think, you know, Steve 1798 01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:14,840 like to give the Duffers credit like the best character he is in 1799 01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:16,080 the show. I think. 1800 01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:17,560 I mean, maybe we're biased on this. 1801 01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,760 I just love Joe Kiri. Well, he makes every scene he's 1802 01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:24,480 in pop and you just like want to stay in that scene. 1803 01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:28,520 I loved him and Chips Ahoy loved his relationship with Robin 1804 01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:35,280 scoops Ahoy Chips away is a is a cookie brand, but I love him 1805 01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:39,480 when he is like realizing that he's in love with Robin for the 1806 01:32:39,480 --> 01:32:40,840 same reasons. He was kind of in love with 1807 01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:45,520 Nancy and and screwed it up and and he was like, this is like 1808 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:48,560 someone who just like feels like they're you know, they know 1809 01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:51,480 themselves. And then, you know, we had the 1810 01:32:51,480 --> 01:32:54,320 like moment where Will's like, wait, Robin, you told Steve of 1811 01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,160 all people, like the jock that you know, because Will and Steve 1812 01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:58,520 haven't really interacted that much. 1813 01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,200 But so it was interesting to see like Will's perception of like 1814 01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,600 what the high school Steve is too. 1815 01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:07,440 And so anyway, so like the the relationship between Steve and 1816 01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:11,680 Robin, which was totally not like furthered in. 1817 01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:13,360 This season. So sad. 1818 01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:17,560 Yeah, to see. Anyway, So yeah, love Steve, one 1819 01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:20,120 of the best characters. Who else do you? 1820 01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:21,760 Nancy shout out Nancy this season. 1821 01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:26,120 Natalie Dyer coming in as Ellen Ripley this season being a 1822 01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:28,920 badass. I just loved every moment where 1823 01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:31,440 she's like, let me go, like do this. 1824 01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:34,120 Like let's just run into the upside down. 1825 01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:37,600 Like let's not waste time. Joyce. 1826 01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:42,520 Did you know was she like immature with the Barb hole 1827 01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,880 situation? Yes. 1828 01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:47,280 Her friend died. She wanted to get drunk for a 1829 01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:50,480 few nights, like leave her alone because Jesus. 1830 01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:53,600 But she was a kid. And she felt regret, like she 1831 01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,120 felt like she, like, I don't know, whatever, you know? 1832 01:33:56,120 --> 01:34:00,840 What I always forget about the guy who I can never remember his 1833 01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:06,240 name, but he is on the whole exhibition, the whole trip, 1834 01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,720 right? To go save Hopper with Joyce and 1835 01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:11,240 they meet like Yuri and everything. 1836 01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,680 That guy was originally the detective that Barb's family 1837 01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:17,400 hires, right? To investigate her death. 1838 01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:19,520 I always forget that that's his character's origin. 1839 01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:21,960 Yeah, it's Marie. Yeah, Yeah, Marie Bauman. 1840 01:34:21,960 --> 01:34:24,480 He doesn't even get an end to his character because they blow 1841 01:34:24,480 --> 01:34:26,680 up the thing. But he's he doesn't die. 1842 01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:29,640 We don't see him and. Also incredibly disrespectful to 1843 01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:33,840 Mr. Clark at the end there. They really kept that joke going 1844 01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:37,880 quite a quite a long time. Anything about Joyce Wynona 1845 01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:40,520 feels like a farewell to Winona in some ways. 1846 01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,080 I'm sure she'll keep acting obviously, but this feels like a 1847 01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:47,680 an interesting almost like enter her career as like a Hollywood 1848 01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:49,840 superstar because I'm sure she can do like indie projects now. 1849 01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:51,360 She's probably a multi millionaire. 1850 01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:56,240 Yeah, it was just, yeah. I mean, I love Winona it. 1851 01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:58,920 That's all I can really say. I think she was like a great 1852 01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:03,760 mother figure and kind of like role model for Will. 1853 01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:08,120 And she did a really good job, like balancing a lot of the 1854 01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:12,360 tensions of wanting to keep her kids safe, but understanding 1855 01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:16,600 that there are like larger things at stake too. 1856 01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:19,840 And so, like, putting him in danger was kind of like 1857 01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:23,120 necessary. And towards the end, I think 1858 01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,720 that, you know, Will and her had a good arc together of like the 1859 01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:30,680 idea of her trusting him to do that, kind of like letting him 1860 01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,880 go and grow up a little bit, right? 1861 01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:35,680 Because she was like she also was traumatized from losing a 1862 01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:37,520 kid. But I mean, we can't understate 1863 01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:42,880 the first season was awesome. Like her, her performance, which 1864 01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:46,560 really there was a lot of scenes going back to her just freaking 1865 01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:51,520 out and like, you know what, the other character saw her losing 1866 01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,920 her mind, putting lights up. She's like, that is not my son. 1867 01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:56,400 I don't know what that is in there. 1868 01:35:56,480 --> 01:35:59,160 That was all great. Yeah, and, and like going around 1869 01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:03,160 the house finding Will on the wall, you know, like she just 1870 01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:05,360 did such a good job. Yeah, she really was incredible 1871 01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:08,600 in Season 1. I don't know how the the TV show 1872 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:10,640 words worked out that year, but hopefully she wants something. 1873 01:36:10,640 --> 01:36:13,880 Also loved her and Mr. Clark team up when the magnets started 1874 01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:16,040 dropping. Yeah, love the Mr. Clark shout 1875 01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:18,680 outs, other characters that we skipped over. 1876 01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:20,680 I mean, we I think we talked enough about Hopper. 1877 01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,480 Love him is like the Magnum Pi of the show, the Indiana Jones 1878 01:36:23,480 --> 01:36:25,200 of the show. Definitely should have died 1879 01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:27,760 before going to Russia. Didn't make any sense to bring 1880 01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:30,920 him back. Erica's great Mr. Clark, great 1881 01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:34,560 Susie. Suzie shout out you love Suzie 1882 01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:37,840 edition a never ending story like she was Justin. 1883 01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:41,640 Yeah, and and Suzie sing along was one of the peak moments of 1884 01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:43,480 Stranger Things with the the mall. 1885 01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:46,040 And then Lucas and Max making fun of him in the last episode 1886 01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:49,920 and giving them the finger. Argyle was come from the show 1887 01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:51,320 which is bullshit. He should have been in the 1888 01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:53,680 season. Murray was fine. 1889 01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:56,560 Ted Wheeler, nobody remembers, but Ted actually is still in the 1890 01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:57,960 hospital right now. Is he? 1891 01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,760 No. No one's checking on deck, No. 1892 01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:03,880 One cares, you got his ass rocked and nobody cared. 1893 01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,720 Wait, can I ask you a question? Wait, hold, wait one second, 1894 01:37:08,720 --> 01:37:10,360 because there are a couple more characters. 1895 01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:12,320 OK, well, I'll let you go through the characters, but my 1896 01:37:12,440 --> 01:37:14,640 question is related to this. OK, go ahead. 1897 01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:19,640 Who who is the best like addition to Stranger Things 1898 01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:21,160 seasons? Like who's the best additional 1899 01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,360 character outside of the core? So I guess you can go through 1900 01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:26,920 the the last couple characters because you have to hit Billy 1901 01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:28,240 right here. There, there are three 1902 01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:31,080 characters. Yeah, it's it's either Robin, 1903 01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:34,880 Billy or Eddie. Yeah, OK. 1904 01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:36,680 Do you want to finish going through them and then we'll like 1905 01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:38,880 rank them? It's one of those 3 Sure we can 1906 01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:41,480 do that. I want to shout out Neil Nell 1907 01:37:41,480 --> 01:37:43,760 Fisher as Holly because I did think she was pretty good in 1908 01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:46,600 moments, but when that one boy called her a bitch? 1909 01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:49,600 Oh my God, that was an insane. And then her friends start 1910 01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:51,120 choking her out with her own necklace. 1911 01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:54,000 Yeah, I did realize I was connected more to Holly than I 1912 01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:55,880 thought. Because I must punch my Tvi was 1913 01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:57,000 like, I'm going to fight these kids. 1914 01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:02,240 They jumped her wild. In Henry's house, that's like 1915 01:38:02,480 --> 01:38:04,440 the. Amount of just like bitches that 1916 01:38:04,440 --> 01:38:07,840 are thrown out in this season from little boys. 1917 01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:09,520 But that like different the way he. 1918 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:10,720 Women. Was said bitch. 1919 01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:13,160 The way he said it was very upsetting. 1920 01:38:13,200 --> 01:38:14,760 Yeah I was like what who is this? 1921 01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:17,720 I was like who are you? You extra like get out of here. 1922 01:38:17,720 --> 01:38:20,920 I don't even know your name actually. 1923 01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:25,560 The kid did a good job Sorry. And then my extra credit goes to 1924 01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:26,840 this actor we've not talked about. 1925 01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:29,600 We even said their name, I don't think, but Jamie Campbell Bauer. 1926 01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:33,840 Who plays? Henry and Vecna had the hardest 1927 01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:37,480 job and he's a double franchise Lord because he plays one of the 1928 01:38:37,480 --> 01:38:39,440 Valtorian Twilight. And I thought there. 1929 01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:41,440 Was going to be a twilight moment in this show where we had 1930 01:38:41,440 --> 01:38:43,320 a fake out, you know, group of deaths. 1931 01:38:43,440 --> 01:38:45,040 Right, especially with eight like? 1932 01:38:45,680 --> 01:38:47,760 Which I guess sort of happens if you believe in the middle of 1933 01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:49,920 Bobby Brown is 11 still being alive. 1934 01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:53,440 And then my last, you know, person I want to bring up is 1935 01:38:53,440 --> 01:38:56,760 Jake Connelly as Derek. We already talked about Derek, 1936 01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,560 but there are two moments I want to bring up that really made me 1937 01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:01,800 fall in love with Derek. The one moment where he goes 1938 01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,280 into the forest to tell Holly that he knew that she knew. 1939 01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,320 Henry was full of shit, so he knew to come to see her. 1940 01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:11,720 That really made me. Like, well, she knew he was full 1941 01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:14,480 of shit and I was like, yeah, it's so great. 1942 01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:17,200 And also when he was in the van going in the upside down with 1943 01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:18,840 the crew and he's like delightful Derek and he's 1944 01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:21,320 smiling and he sees Finn and they make eye contact and he 1945 01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:24,080 waves like jollily at like. Yeah, 'cause he says Mike's my 1946 01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:25,000 best. Friend, right? 1947 01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:27,640 And then Finn, as Mike like, turns to the side, 'cause he 1948 01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:29,560 thinks he's looking at somebody else and looks back at him. 1949 01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,200 And he does like the Joe Curie Steve thing where he's like, 1950 01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:35,120 hey, yeah, he wasn't that something Steve did. 1951 01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:38,600 I think Steve did give yeah, like a three finger wave kind of 1952 01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:42,120 yeah at 1:00. So love Jake Connelly as Derek. 1953 01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:46,440 Also, the whole sequence of trying to get the kids out of 1954 01:39:46,440 --> 01:39:51,080 the military base was a really great, like, fun trying to, you 1955 01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:54,840 know, rescue the children who have been contacted by Mr. 1956 01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:56,040 What's it? What was her name? 1957 01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:57,320 Ashley Green. Was it Ashley? 1958 01:39:57,320 --> 01:39:59,480 He was like, that girl's a snitch. 1959 01:39:59,480 --> 01:40:01,480 She was like Ashley whatever is a snitch. 1960 01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:03,640 Yeah, that, yeah, that was really fun. 1961 01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,360 It was really like a fun, suspenseful, in the Stranger 1962 01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:12,080 Things spirit, suspense of like trying to get the the kids out. 1963 01:40:12,080 --> 01:40:14,400 And then Mike and Will trying to stop it from flooding and they 1964 01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:16,600 kept going. Mr. Watson, are you here for Mr. 1965 01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:18,040 Watson? Are you here for Mr. Watson and 1966 01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:20,240 the one little boy who pops his head out and you see his eyes 1967 01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:22,000 really quickly in the edit, so it goes under. 1968 01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:24,360 That was really funny. I'm glad you brought that up. 1969 01:40:24,440 --> 01:40:28,640 That was really well shot and edited, so there were moments. 1970 01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:30,720 And also there was the Home Alone sequence of the. 1971 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:32,880 These are all in the beginning. That's a great moment too. 1972 01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:35,400 The Season 2. Just had potential. 1973 01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:39,960 Yeah, it really did in these last set up of yeah, the, the 1974 01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:43,680 different like 4, you know, family members of Derek or three 1975 01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:46,840 other family members of Derek and Erica having like, you know, 1976 01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:51,000 the the a fight with her friend going over not poisoning them, 1977 01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:52,160 but whatever, giving them like sleep. 1978 01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:54,200 Pills when the little girl starts screaming when Erica 1979 01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:56,120 comes over with a shot. Yeah, she's a bad ass. 1980 01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:58,760 It's so good. And then yeah, the whole like 1981 01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,040 setting up to to try to trap the Demogorgon. 1982 01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:05,880 I also like later on when they like electrocute the Demogorgon 1983 01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:12,040 to bring the hive power to will. Like those things are good. 1984 01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:13,560 Is it the death mark kind of thing? 1985 01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:17,280 I guess like his will could, yeah, like he could be in line 1986 01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:21,920 with Voldemort if somebody of. It was it was because he's 1987 01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,080 connected to the hive mind, so they had to like flare it up 1988 01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:25,400 because he didn't know how to like. 1989 01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:29,440 Explained it well, another another one of my favorite 1990 01:41:29,440 --> 01:41:31,480 moments that you're now. You kind of just reminded me of 1991 01:41:31,480 --> 01:41:33,680 a couple of those good episodes before the season really turned 1992 01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:37,000 to shit. But when Steve and Jonathan and 1993 01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:40,760 Nancy and Dustin are in the his car and they have the satellite 1994 01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:42,880 on the car and they have to drive through the hole to the 1995 01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:44,880 upside down and they're like, don't do it, Steve. 1996 01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:47,400 We're going to crash into like the corn thing and then Nancy's 1997 01:41:47,400 --> 01:41:49,320 like floor it and he like immediately does. 1998 01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:51,520 Does it? I love how much he loves Nancy. 1999 01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:53,240 He like, listens to her no matter what. 2000 01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:55,360 I love that from Steve. Yeah, he tells her. 2001 01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:58,960 OK, So what were would you want to do? 2002 01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:04,400 I wanted to, well, I wanted to say like the best like 2003 01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:06,800 characters that are introduced in the season. 2004 01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:10,120 And I don't think like Erica would obviously be in this, but 2005 01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:12,720 I feel like she has become like a core character where she 2006 01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:15,280 doesn't count totally. So don't count the kids then. 2007 01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:19,680 Yeah, so maybe don't count the kids, but who are The Who are 2008 01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:23,480 the top like new characters that are introduced in the season? 2009 01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:26,440 Because I would argue like Holly was that for the season, but it 2010 01:42:26,440 --> 01:42:28,320 didn't really work because we didn't have an emotional 2011 01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:29,800 connection to her. It was the last season. 2012 01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:31,840 So that also was like working against it. 2013 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:34,360 And she got more, a lot more screen time than the main 2014 01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:36,280 characters. So like there was tension there. 2015 01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:43,480 But for the other seasons for me, I think this is in I'll I'll 2016 01:42:43,480 --> 01:42:46,400 order them after. But definitely Billy. 2017 01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:48,680 Billy. Definitely Eddie. 2018 01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:52,760 Eddie. And I I have a case for Alexi. 2019 01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:56,000 That's a good I think. There's because when he died at 2020 01:42:56,000 --> 01:43:00,200 the carnival, it is tragic. The way he dies too, yeah, yeah. 2021 01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:01,720 And Robin getting shot by the Terminator. 2022 01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:03,280 The whole Terminator plot was also annoying. 2023 01:43:03,560 --> 01:43:07,440 And Robin, but I I guess she's also like a member of the group 2024 01:43:07,440 --> 01:43:09,000 now too. But you don't like Murray? 2025 01:43:10,440 --> 01:43:14,280 I like Murray, he just gets kind of annoying, like especially in 2026 01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:16,680 the season. What about Paul Reiser as Sam 2027 01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:19,000 Owens, the doctor? The one he's good. 2028 01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:20,200 Yeah. He's pretty good. 2029 01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:24,720 What about Bob, Bob, Bob from Sean? 2030 01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:29,720 Sean Astin. Astin our own Sam Wise, Rudy, 2031 01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:33,920 he's good. He gives bad advice to Will. 2032 01:43:34,040 --> 01:43:37,640 He really does. He's he's like when I was sick, 2033 01:43:37,640 --> 01:43:39,920 I used to play all these puzzles and games. 2034 01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:46,240 I was like, what like, And also I love when he I, I do love. 2035 01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,680 He was a great addition. I loved when he like came in and 2036 01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,800 was comforting to Winona, but also like solved the the whole 2037 01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:57,200 map of Hawkins. He was like, this is a map, you 2038 01:43:57,200 --> 01:43:58,440 know? That was really fun. 2039 01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:02,040 Yeah, we have that later on. Max is like drawing her dreams 2040 01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:03,880 and Nancy puts together the whole House of ECNA. 2041 01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:05,880 And I guess you have Matthew Modine as Doctor Brenner, but I 2042 01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:08,040 don't think Papa counts. Does Papa count? 2043 01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:11,000 Yeah, there are a lot of men who are introduced, I'm realizing 2044 01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:12,480 now. Well, Linda Hamilton was the new 2045 01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:14,680 villain this season, but she literally could have not been in 2046 01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:16,240 the show. It would have been exactly the 2047 01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:18,040 same. She's from the Terminator 2048 01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:19,680 movies. Doctor K. 2049 01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:23,320 Yeah, it was. She was a fun addition, like in 2050 01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:26,720 terms of the lore, but. And I guess 8 doesn't count 2051 01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:28,280 because she's a kid. In this scenario, you're. 2052 01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:32,280 Playing and also they totally like botched her storyline and 2053 01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:33,200 like. When they brought her back, I 2054 01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:34,480 was like, oh. That's. 2055 01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:36,560 A you're doing this. So then you're going to kill her 2056 01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:38,920 in one episode, I would assume. And then they took four more 2057 01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:41,800 episodes to do that. As soon as she started calling 2058 01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:46,240 11 sister, I was out. OK, I'm going to say. 2059 01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:48,520 I think Eddie's first for. Me, I think Eddie's number one. 2060 01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:50,800 And it's a close second with Billy. 2061 01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:53,080 Interesting. I was going to say it's it's 2062 01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:56,360 going to be Billy or Robin. Oh, I didn't know I was counting 2063 01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:58,640 Robin because she's in the core group. 2064 01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:00,880 Interesting. Because, OK, well then we can, 2065 01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:03,560 we can include I think Erica and Robin. 2066 01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:05,280 Well, then I think it doesn't matter, though. 2067 01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:07,000 We agree that the answer is Eddie, right? 2068 01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,360 Why is it Eddie? OK, it's Eddie because Joseph 2069 01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:13,760 Quinn #1 is like the main breakout star from this, right? 2070 01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:17,640 Like he from Stranger Things. He is an amazing actor. 2071 01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:22,360 He's legitimately a star now. Yeah, like this is especially 2072 01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:27,160 evident in A Quiet Place part one where we see like him and 2073 01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:32,600 Lupita Nyongo, who is like an excellent emotional actor. 2074 01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:37,080 Him being able to hold his own with her was really like, 2075 01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,880 surprising. Didn't get a lot to do as Johnny 2076 01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:43,000 Storm, but like the strong, one of the strongest parts of that 2077 01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:45,560 movie. And then what else was he? 2078 01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:47,440 In and Gladiator 2, Denzel was. Acting. 2079 01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:50,280 Denzel acted everybody off screen. 2080 01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:52,080 Everyone. Including Paul Meskel, but as 2081 01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,200 soon as he. What's the actor's name? 2082 01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:57,400 Who plays Eddie Joseph Quinn as soon as he meets Joseph Quinn as 2083 01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:01,520 his theatrical emperor. Their energies were close to 2084 01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:04,480 being matched, which is a wild. There was at least some. 2085 01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:06,840 Yeah, there was something there. I'm not saying he's Denzel 2086 01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:10,760 Washington, obviously, but I was like, holy shit, he's really 2087 01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,640 acting with Denzel right now. Yeah, it was a little bit of 2088 01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:15,520 like training day vibes where I'm like Ethan Hawke, you're 2089 01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:19,000 almost there. OK, Yeah, I think it's Eddie. 2090 01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:21,080 Yeah, then I think it's either Erica or Billy. 2091 01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:25,760 Yeah, I would say Billy #2 I think the Dacre, Dacre 2092 01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:27,360 Montgomery, I think that's how you say his first name. 2093 01:46:28,440 --> 01:46:32,320 But Montgomery, the actor who plays Billy, is just really 2094 01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:34,200 good. I mean, he's just like a yeah, 2095 01:46:34,200 --> 01:46:39,360 like a fire, like he is there burning bright. 2096 01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:40,880 Steve, they've been talking about. 2097 01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:44,120 Scariest shit like. Yeah, he's really. 2098 01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:47,760 Good plays a really well like I'm scared for Max, you know, in 2099 01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:50,160 that that sequence. I also feel like oh wow, he's 2100 01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:52,560 really tortured. Did I need the whole flashback 2101 01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:55,720 of mom? No, but loved him in the sauna 2102 01:46:55,960 --> 01:46:58,000 like. It was a it was a weird 2103 01:46:58,080 --> 01:47:00,960 redemption arc for his character, considering this is 2104 01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:05,760 the only character that the show acknowledges is racist. 2105 01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,920 But it's also the 80s in Indiana, so obviously there's 2106 01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:13,280 like more racism going on. It's Indiana and at this time 2107 01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:15,560 period, but they're putting it all on Billy's character, which 2108 01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:18,360 is strange. Yeah, another kind of like what 2109 01:47:18,360 --> 01:47:21,360 we were talking about earlier, example of how they have made 2110 01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:23,560 stranger things like this like a political. 2111 01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:26,160 I can't believe that. Project, yeah and yeah. 2112 01:47:26,280 --> 01:47:28,480 Even though emotionally and morally it's about a lot of 2113 01:47:28,480 --> 01:47:31,320 things. Yeah, OK. 2114 01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:34,000 I think we. Did miss we did miss Vicki but I 2115 01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:36,600 was really hard For me I didn't watch the Anne with an E 2116 01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:40,160 franchise on Netflix but it was really hard not to see. 2117 01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:43,160 Like a Pippi Long stocking character. 2118 01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:44,720 Sure, connect her with that image. 2119 01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:48,640 Even though I like her and Robin's relationship and I like 2120 01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:51,160 the I like the start of the relationship too, where Robin's 2121 01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:54,400 like doesn't know how to talk to her while they're playing in 2122 01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:57,760 band and says like stupid things and looks at Steve. 2123 01:47:57,920 --> 01:48:01,760 I think strong honorable mention goes to Erica, Argyle and Derek. 2124 01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:05,760 Those three as like great teenage characters or whatever 2125 01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:07,600 preteen characters for Derek and Erica. 2126 01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:13,040 OK epilogue. Any thoughts to end this episode 2127 01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:16,120 because it's kind of the final 20 minutes we'll ever get a 2128 01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:17,840 stranger Things where they kind of that's true. 2129 01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:20,120 I think we I'm. Sure we'll do deep dives on like 2130 01:48:20,120 --> 01:48:22,280 the Patreon one day of the the seasons. 2131 01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:24,720 So that's why I'm I'm not stressed about like getting 2132 01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:27,160 everything in here We. Have a couple things that 2133 01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:29,400 happen. Yeah, there's a graduation. 2134 01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:31,320 Well, that's the strongest thing. 2135 01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:35,440 OK, let's just really quickly the the meet up between oh, I 2136 01:48:35,440 --> 01:48:37,400 guess that's after graduation, right is. 2137 01:48:37,400 --> 01:48:38,720 The D&D thing's after graduation. 2138 01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:42,440 No, not the D&D thing. The meet up between Robin, the 2139 01:48:42,440 --> 01:48:46,160 older kids, Steve, Jonathan. It has to be after but that 2140 01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:47,800 night. You're right there, Yeah. 2141 01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:50,200 And. 4 characters have never hung out together. 2142 01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:51,960 So. We're like we've had all these 2143 01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:54,600 memories together. There is one thing I miss about 2144 01:48:54,600 --> 01:48:57,800 this place. It was, you know, the the cut 2145 01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:01,840 where it really is, just like what is going on is when Robin 2146 01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:05,640 they like laugh and and then Robin turns to Nancy is like 2147 01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:10,560 Nancy, what about you? Like there was just a moment 2148 01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:15,880 where it was just hold so forced and weirdly cut together. 2149 01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:17,520 I enjoyed watching you do that live. 2150 01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,840 Oh, I acted. What about you to the side of 2151 01:49:20,840 --> 01:49:23,800 the wall? And focusing in on like, you 2152 01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:26,960 know, force laughs from my hawk, you know, doing her best, but 2153 01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:29,960 just awkward. And so, yeah, all of that felt 2154 01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:30,880 strange. Didn't. 2155 01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:32,920 She voice anxiety and inside out too. 2156 01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:35,560 She brought a little bit of that this season which I did not 2157 01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:37,640 enjoy. I like I like the anxiety voice 2158 01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:38,360 on inside. Too. 2159 01:49:38,360 --> 01:49:40,160 I just met the performance. It was kind of giving me 2160 01:49:40,160 --> 01:49:42,000 anxiety. Fair enough. 2161 01:49:43,480 --> 01:49:46,600 Then we have Dustin's speech. Yeah, which? 2162 01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:50,760 I appreciate that he did the thing that Eddie wanted and that 2163 01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:52,440 he wanted to graduate, giving the middle finger to the 2164 01:49:52,440 --> 01:49:54,760 principal because I'm sure there's some back story there we 2165 01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:57,240 don't know about. Yeah, I'm, I thought about that 2166 01:49:57,240 --> 01:50:00,960 too, when Eddie is like, I'm going to like cross the stage, 2167 01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:03,880 his whole like amazing Eddie monologue when we first meet the 2168 01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:06,000 character in the cafeteria. So I I thought that was 2169 01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:08,520 connected, especially when we have the Hellfire T-shirt. 2170 01:50:08,920 --> 01:50:12,680 But one, it felt weird because we've never really met the 2171 01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:17,200 principal. And so it just felt strange 2172 01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:19,440 because it was like, I have no relationship to this person. 2173 01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:24,560 You're like giving the finger and also like the these kids are 2174 01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:27,840 interested in school, right? Like the the strength of 2175 01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:30,480 stranger things. That was like cool was that they 2176 01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:34,480 connected with Mr. Clark, right? And not that every single 2177 01:50:34,480 --> 01:50:38,480 educator has to be like this, like perfect like mentor in the 2178 01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:41,600 kids lives, but it just felt like a weird shift. 2179 01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:44,920 Also, they let Max graduate and she certainly did not have the 2180 01:50:44,920 --> 01:50:48,520 credits. She was in a coma for a year and 2181 01:50:48,520 --> 01:50:52,480 a half. So some guidance counselor 2182 01:50:52,480 --> 01:50:54,600 somewhere was doing some finagling behind the scenes, let 2183 01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:57,560 me tell you. And then but then also the cut 2184 01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:01,400 from to each one of the characters when the speech 2185 01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:06,800 didn't feel like this speech felt fine, but out of in a 2186 01:51:06,800 --> 01:51:10,280 different movie, in a different like coming of age graduation 2187 01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:14,720 movie that didn't feel exactly like in line with what the 2188 01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:17,040 stranger things kids have always like preached it. 2189 01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:21,480 It like, yes, it had like some pandemic nods of like, you know, 2190 01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:24,680 the everything happening with like quarantine and Hawkins 2191 01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:26,760 like. So maybe that was like for that 2192 01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:29,120 particular generation who went through high school during that 2193 01:51:29,120 --> 01:51:31,520 time. But regardless, it felt just 2194 01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:36,520 like a weird kind of like opportunity to speak to the 2195 01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:40,240 themes of like feeling like an outsider, kind of like going in 2196 01:51:40,240 --> 01:51:42,960 a little bit on that more. Instead, it felt like this very 2197 01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:47,680 weird staged, like let's give the principal the middle finger, 2198 01:51:47,680 --> 01:51:50,240 which was more Eddie's storyline, not Dustin's. 2199 01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:54,560 And then cut to all the characters being like this fake 2200 01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:58,080 shock with a little bit of a lag on cutting to the different 2201 01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:02,320 characters, which felt just really awkward. 2202 01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:05,200 Again, like an example of the cringe and and so. 2203 01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:08,240 And then the the hot girl of the school, I guess that comes up to 2204 01:52:08,240 --> 01:52:09,360 Dustin. He's like, do you want to come 2205 01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:11,120 to a party? And he was like, I was doing 2206 01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:12,960 like a John Hughes thing. I was like, I don't. 2207 01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:16,120 This doesn't feel, yeah, natural to these characters. 2208 01:52:16,120 --> 01:52:17,880 Yeah. You know, I did like, Will being 2209 01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:21,160 like, can we go? Because poor Will, like, missed 2210 01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:23,400 so many years of his childhood. He's like, let's please, can we 2211 01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:26,680 please let me go in the epilogue? 2212 01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:29,120 I the so graduation fine, I guess. 2213 01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:33,760 But yeah, the epilogue worked. The D&D game, Really. 2214 01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:35,160 Worked well. That was the best part of it. 2215 01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:37,680 There were other things that like we saw small moments like 2216 01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:41,880 Hopper proposing to Joyce, which was sweet, but you can just just 2217 01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:43,240 seen that coming. They're going to move to 2218 01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:44,800 Montauk. It was really nice when he was 2219 01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:48,480 like, let's like, do this big tonight because you raised, like 2220 01:52:48,480 --> 01:52:51,240 two kids and you had a yeah. It was really hard. 2221 01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:52,440 Like, you did a lot. Yeah. 2222 01:52:52,680 --> 01:52:54,880 Giving Joyce for flowers. Yeah, it was nice. 2223 01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:58,360 And then we have the D&D game again, Which worked. 2224 01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:03,840 It was like, I, I thought it was emotional for something that 2225 01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:07,840 could have felt weirdly forced, like the graduation, because 2226 01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:12,360 they're playing DND and kind of like going back to the start of 2227 01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:14,280 this whole series when they were kids. 2228 01:53:15,320 --> 01:53:20,480 But they defeat Mike in the campaign with an L figure, 2229 01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:25,680 right? And then Max is like, wait, we 2230 01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:28,400 just like win or I forget exactly what happens, right? 2231 01:53:28,480 --> 01:53:32,680 She's realizing what every person who doesn't play D&D does 2232 01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:34,800 for the first time playing D&D, and which I've not played but 2233 01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:36,680 I've learned through my years teaching from other kids 2234 01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:39,000 playing, is that you can't win. You can't win. 2235 01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:41,000 It's not really winning. You just finished the story, 2236 01:53:41,080 --> 01:53:43,520 which counts as winning, but it's not if you don't. 2237 01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,120 If you can't finish the person's story, technically you lose, but 2238 01:53:46,120 --> 01:53:48,520 you still won because it's an experience with your friends. 2239 01:53:48,520 --> 01:53:50,640 I got you, OK? It's the journey that counts. 2240 01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:52,920 As far as I know, nobody come for us in the comments, Yeah. 2241 01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:54,600 We don't. Yeah, we don't know and we 2242 01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:56,320 don't. I would love to have a one star 2243 01:53:56,320 --> 01:53:58,320 review on this podcast. That they don't, they don't know 2244 01:53:58,320 --> 01:54:02,520 anything about DND, which I think you know, DND sounds fun, 2245 01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:05,640 yeah. I think it does. 2246 01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:12,160 Yeah, it's it honestly, I so there's like a game store that 2247 01:54:12,480 --> 01:54:17,160 us and some friends went into and had a lot of fun and but 2248 01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:19,080 there are a lot of DND games going on. 2249 01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:22,240 And I kind of realized like how stressful it must be to be the 2250 01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:25,200 person who's planning the campaign, if that's what you 2251 01:54:25,200 --> 01:54:28,560 call it, the story. It's like hosting people at your 2252 01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:31,840 house, but you have to make sure that the story is interesting. 2253 01:54:31,880 --> 01:54:35,440 You basically write fantasy fanfic and then you plan 2254 01:54:35,440 --> 01:54:38,600 everybody's characters for them. I mean, that's sounds wild 2255 01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:40,880 anyway, so how are? There's a lot of unused 2256 01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:43,840 storylines or subplots that you create that you use in future 2257 01:54:43,840 --> 01:54:46,120 books that you do or future. Whatever you call them, but I 2258 01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:50,360 loved all their cute little like, you know, finders that 2259 01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:52,200 they each had, like their name on them. 2260 01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:54,520 Cute retconic. I don't think that ever. 2261 01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:58,320 Exists saying goodbye to like their youth and and going up the 2262 01:54:58,320 --> 01:55:01,280 door like closing and ending on the door like that all really 2263 01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:02,920 worked for me. Very Toy Story Story. 2264 01:55:02,960 --> 01:55:04,240 By the way, I'm not crying. Sorry. 2265 01:55:04,240 --> 01:55:06,440 I just said something. You're crying in my throat. 2266 01:55:06,440 --> 01:55:07,240 You're crying. It's OK. 2267 01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:11,200 But that really worked for me when we closed out on the door. 2268 01:55:12,400 --> 01:55:14,400 What minute? Hour 54 OK. 2269 01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:15,600 We're almost done. We're almost done. 2270 01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:19,360 So but then Mike has a really good, like, beautiful moment of 2271 01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:24,120 telling us, like where everyone ends up and, you know, will 2272 01:55:24,120 --> 01:55:26,480 ultimately like ending with Will, who, you're right, is kind 2273 01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:31,280 of like the main character here, like finding acceptance and like 2274 01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:33,480 living his life. And then Mike is kind of a 2275 01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:35,200 writer. We learn. 2276 01:55:35,480 --> 01:55:39,440 I think, yeah, I think the idea is that he, you know, told 2277 01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:43,120 stories through D&D and now he's mythologized Elle and he's going 2278 01:55:43,120 --> 01:55:45,640 to tell stories as a Stephen King like writer. 2279 01:55:45,640 --> 01:55:47,880 OK. And so let's just have the the 2280 01:55:47,880 --> 01:55:50,680 conversation here. Is going to tell some fucked up 2281 01:55:50,680 --> 01:55:53,440 Vecna stories, some real the clown. 2282 01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:56,200 Story for sure. Is Ella live? 2283 01:55:56,640 --> 01:55:58,440 No. I think she is. 2284 01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:01,280 No, I I saw this online. I don't think people are getting 2285 01:56:01,280 --> 01:56:03,120 the end of the show. Or I just don't get it. 2286 01:56:03,120 --> 01:56:04,840 Maybe I'm too confident about my reading of it. 2287 01:56:04,840 --> 01:56:07,640 I thought it was pretty obvious that like he just, he was 2288 01:56:07,640 --> 01:56:10,880 playing D&D and he continued the story and he gave them a way to 2289 01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:14,080 cope with the loss of Elle. He had just talked to Hopper. 2290 01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:16,320 If you thought Elle was alive, you wouldn't be in front of 2291 01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:18,280 where she died. And Hopper needing to come to 2292 01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:20,760 give him advice to be like this is how you have to move on. 2293 01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:22,880 If you don't do this, you're. Going to be like me, miss her, 2294 01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:25,400 you know? I guess so. 2295 01:56:25,400 --> 01:56:26,800 He was, I think he was. Felt you. 2296 01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,560 Can still like mourn her even though he thinks she's gone. 2297 01:56:29,600 --> 01:56:32,000 You're saying Mike Wheeler, being Mike Wheeler would have 2298 01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:34,080 gone to like look for her or had some? 2299 01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:36,800 Yeah, he definitely would not be just doing it as a throw away. 2300 01:56:36,800 --> 01:56:41,160 Let me tell you guys that I actually think L's in Ireland, 2301 01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,560 like, you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? 2302 01:56:44,560 --> 01:56:46,720 Yeah. Even the way they show her come 2303 01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:49,840 up that Cliff and look at that like town, it felt so Lord of 2304 01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:51,680 the Rings fantasy. Storybook. 2305 01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:55,920 You know, I didn't really consider the idea that like Mike 2306 01:56:55,920 --> 01:57:00,840 Wheeler as a character would, if he really did truly believe that 2307 01:57:01,440 --> 01:57:04,520 with the ending, wouldn't be like him closing the door and 2308 01:57:04,520 --> 01:57:06,880 like smiling down on the basement on the kind of like, 2309 01:57:07,480 --> 01:57:12,400 you know, coming to peace with reality, which is more so, I 2310 01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:16,120 guess in favor of your point. And he would probably try to go 2311 01:57:16,120 --> 01:57:18,200 like, look for her or something like that. 2312 01:57:18,200 --> 01:57:19,880 Obviously you can't do that because then it's just like 2313 01:57:20,240 --> 01:57:24,040 another season, but. A a much sadder ending which was 2314 01:57:24,280 --> 01:57:26,360 this is how I would have written that into Stranger Things. 2315 01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:28,560 Will dies the way I already explained. 2316 01:57:29,280 --> 01:57:31,960 Steve dies the way I already explained, L dies the way I 2317 01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:34,640 already explained. Mike writes the story at the end 2318 01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:37,240 and the story of these like 3 sacrificial characters in his 2319 01:57:37,240 --> 01:57:38,880 life. The father figure, the brother 2320 01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:42,120 figure and the partner, which is beautiful. 2321 01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:45,080 Yeah. And it didn't end that way. 2322 01:57:45,080 --> 01:57:47,920 And instead, everybody's alive, and maybe even Elle's fucking 2323 01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:49,120 alive and. Then we have like, kind of 2324 01:57:49,120 --> 01:57:53,280 pringy Eggo waffles. Yeah, moments of of like tying 2325 01:57:53,280 --> 01:57:55,880 up the story don't even feel overly sentimental. 2326 01:57:55,880 --> 01:57:57,680 You don't think that would have been sweeter if if those were 2327 01:57:57,680 --> 01:57:59,200 the three characters who died in this story? 2328 01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:00,800 Yeah. And I think we would have gotten 2329 01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:03,520 like, stronger goodbye scenes because now it feels like 2330 01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:05,840 everything's kind of OK. And yes, like these characters 2331 01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:08,680 feel like they could only understand each other. 2332 01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:11,080 And there's only a relationship of like the trauma that they 2333 01:58:11,080 --> 01:58:13,160 shared together and the experience that they shared that 2334 01:58:13,560 --> 01:58:15,240 that strength since they're bond. 2335 01:58:15,240 --> 01:58:18,320 But it feels weird to have them just like talking on a rooftop 2336 01:58:18,320 --> 01:58:20,920 for the older kids. The DND thing works because I 2337 01:58:21,120 --> 01:58:23,400 actually believe in the relationship between all the the 2338 01:58:23,400 --> 01:58:26,800 core party. But yeah, I mean, I obviously 2339 01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:28,040 think that people should have died. 2340 01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:33,480 And also then we can have more like we can have other goodbyes 2341 01:58:33,480 --> 01:58:36,920 between like Erica, right, for example, and other characters. 2342 01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:39,160 So I think. It would be more screen time 2343 01:58:39,280 --> 01:58:41,680 with everybody else. Yeah, absolutely. 2344 01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:45,360 OK, that's a stranger. That was the extra cards of 2345 01:58:45,360 --> 01:58:48,120 Stranger Things season 5 and the show as a whole. 2346 01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:49,880 Because they're going to do something in the future. 2347 01:58:49,880 --> 01:58:53,080 Well, I'm not discounting that. You're probably right there real 2348 01:58:53,080 --> 01:58:55,560 quick. I'm going to do my fast ranking 2349 01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:59,160 of this show of its season. It's been a 2 hour podcast, was 2350 01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:00,880 the last time we're going to talk about Stranger Things for 2351 01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:04,560 probably years. Number one Season 1. 2352 01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:06,880 Number one is season 1, yes. Season 1 is lightning in a 2353 01:59:06,880 --> 01:59:08,720 bottle. It's a perfect mix of genre and 2354 01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:10,600 tone. Everything else you already 2355 01:59:10,600 --> 01:59:12,960 said, communicating through Christmas lights, the bikes in 2356 01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:15,200 the rain, the iconography, it's awesome. 2357 01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:17,200 It's beautiful. Yeah, I mean, you just say like 2358 01:59:17,200 --> 01:59:21,640 the also the first like opening sequence right of of season 1 2359 01:59:22,400 --> 01:59:24,760 where we have like the DND game or not just sequence. 2360 01:59:24,760 --> 01:59:25,800 I mean like the whole episode, right. 2361 01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:29,480 We have the iconic bikes like you're talking about and then 2362 01:59:29,480 --> 01:59:33,040 also Will goes missing, right, that whole like mystery and 2363 01:59:33,040 --> 01:59:35,040 learning with upside down. Great stuff. 2364 01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:36,840 And then 11 sacrifice at the end. 2365 01:59:36,840 --> 01:59:40,800 Yeah, the second. Season is Season 4. 2366 01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:43,000 Agreed, I like going back and forth like this. 2367 01:59:43,000 --> 01:59:44,000 Agreed. Why Season 4? 2368 01:59:44,280 --> 01:59:48,520 Season 4 is a horror movie made into a franchise. 2369 01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:50,360 It's very Freddy Krueger like you said. 2370 01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:54,520 Becna has a great clock ticking theme song. 2371 01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:58,400 Also really scary shit of the kids being lifted into the air 2372 01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:01,000 and their limbs being broken and their eyes being, you know, 2373 02:00:01,160 --> 02:00:04,880 pulled out of their sockets. Like gory shit that the first 2374 02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:06,960 season actually did have and I didn't remember. 2375 02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:09,720 But you don't need to make it overly like we're not asking for 2376 02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:13,320 Saw or anything, but a campy gore that really works in adding 2377 02:00:13,320 --> 02:00:16,280 stakes to the world. Somehow didn't feel exploitative 2378 02:00:16,280 --> 02:00:17,960 of killing kids on screen. Yes. 2379 02:00:17,960 --> 02:00:21,680 I don't know why it felt earned. And also we have like a treasure 2380 02:00:21,680 --> 02:00:25,240 map, you know, situation of looking for the opening gates 2381 02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:28,600 where we find out that their gates open at all the deaths, 2382 02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:31,840 right? We have a a greater theme to 2383 02:00:31,880 --> 02:00:34,400 Vecna's killings, which is that people aren't paying attention 2384 02:00:34,400 --> 02:00:37,040 to the mental health of their peers, right, Which really works 2385 02:00:37,320 --> 02:00:41,920 for Chrissy's situation and having also the turn of like how 2386 02:00:41,920 --> 02:00:44,440 the town might see Eddie as an outsider, but he's just like 2387 02:00:44,440 --> 02:00:47,640 sweet kid who's like screaming and like what is happening to 2388 02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:51,920 Chrissy really cares about Chrissy to then the kid who like 2389 02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:55,360 blames himself for the accident to then the kid on the 2390 02:00:55,360 --> 02:00:59,240 basketball team, right? Who then like everyone starts 2391 02:00:59,280 --> 02:01:02,480 recognizing like, oh, like I didn't realize that people were 2392 02:01:02,480 --> 02:01:05,440 going through through things like who are just around me 2393 02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:07,600 every day. Like a greater theme right to 2394 02:01:07,680 --> 02:01:10,000 the Vecna killings. And it just looks really good. 2395 02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:13,760 Season 4 looks like a $200 million TV show or 400 million, 2396 02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:15,560 whatever the fuck the money the number is. 2397 02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:18,680 When they're in the upside down, Steve has like those bats eating 2398 02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:20,840 his body. And it's like shirts coming off 2399 02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:23,000 the cameras doing a 360 with everybody, everybody else coming 2400 02:01:23,000 --> 02:01:24,480 out from the upside down trying to kill the bats. 2401 02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:28,160 Like that shit looks hard. And then Max running through the 2402 02:01:28,160 --> 02:01:31,640 Billy, you know, the her Billy episode where she's running 2403 02:01:31,640 --> 02:01:35,160 through and they're playing the music, the Kate Bush song, 2404 02:01:36,520 --> 02:01:39,200 incredibly emotional, impactful. You had to be there kind of 2405 02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:41,040 moment when that show, when that episode released. 2406 02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:44,960 And also you have a haunted house sequence where they're all 2407 02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:47,360 in the. There's a legitimate argument 2408 02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:49,760 for Season 4 being the best season of Stranger Things. 2409 02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:51,680 If it were a little bit more tight. 2410 02:01:51,680 --> 02:01:57,560 And is that the season where we have Hopper in the prison? 2411 02:01:57,640 --> 02:02:00,120 I think so, yeah. No, wait, no, no. 2412 02:02:00,120 --> 02:02:04,040 Hopper Season 3 in in the prison Hopper in season 4 is where. 2413 02:02:04,280 --> 02:02:08,240 No, no, no. In season 3 we he dies at the 2414 02:02:08,240 --> 02:02:13,600 end we think in the mall, right? Like are the the kind of like 2415 02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:15,720 machine to open. See, now we're just confusing 2416 02:02:15,720 --> 02:02:17,520 ourselves. One's Terminator Is that season 2417 02:02:17,520 --> 02:02:18,840 3 that's. Season 3. 2418 02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:21,240 OK, so yes, he's in Russia in season 4. 2419 02:02:21,280 --> 02:02:21,920 Yeah. OK. 2420 02:02:21,920 --> 02:02:26,600 So that aside, I think because Season 1 is so tight and it is 2421 02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:28,720 like, really? It doesn't have bad subplots. 2422 02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:31,720 Yes, exactly. Like you're always moving. 2423 02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:33,360 There's not like a lot of exposition. 2424 02:02:33,560 --> 02:02:35,880 That's the reason season 1 is still the best. 2425 02:02:35,880 --> 02:02:39,000 But there is yes, a strong argument for the way that season 2426 02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:43,400 4 looks, the depth of it. The Freddy Krueger should being 2427 02:02:43,400 --> 02:02:47,840 super actually scary like in this and all the characters 2428 02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:51,800 being a little bit more adult having like the conversations 2429 02:02:51,800 --> 02:02:53,760 like between them. Yeah, there's a there's an 2430 02:02:53,760 --> 02:02:54,960 argument, but still, Season 1 is. 2431 02:02:55,320 --> 02:02:57,680 The best for me, and I want to be AI, want to be a hero for 2432 02:02:57,680 --> 02:02:59,440 just one day. What's that song they play when 2433 02:02:59,440 --> 02:03:02,120 they find Will's body, fake body in the water and all the kids 2434 02:03:02,120 --> 02:03:05,120 ride up in their bikes in Season 1 and then Joyce comes down and 2435 02:03:05,240 --> 02:03:07,000 Mike's like crying, like it can't be him. 2436 02:03:07,320 --> 02:03:10,760 They're playing that music. Nothing emotionally affects me 2437 02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:13,120 and Stranger Things as much as that, so that's season 1 as 2438 02:03:13,120 --> 02:03:14,800 well. And there's that whole like 2439 02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:20,480 mystery of the Hawkins Lab, like not kidnapping Hopper, but 2440 02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:23,800 Hopper going on his own investigation, seeing the tape, 2441 02:03:24,040 --> 02:03:27,560 telling his deputy is like, hey, what was happening on that 2442 02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:28,400 night? It was raining. 2443 02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:30,080 We didn't see any rain or whatever it was or something 2444 02:03:30,080 --> 02:03:31,520 like different about the tape, right? 2445 02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:35,440 And then they put him back in his house, right? 2446 02:03:35,440 --> 02:03:37,720 And he like, finds that his house is bugged. 2447 02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:39,160 Like all that stuff is really fun. 2448 02:03:39,160 --> 02:03:41,880 Everyone has a really great sub. Is that not season 2? 2449 02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:43,840 That's Season 1. I think that's season 1. 2450 02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:47,640 OK, yeah. So I think that's season 1. 2451 02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:49,600 I think the third best season is season 3. 2452 02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:51,480 That's the mall. That's the mall. 2453 02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:53,640 I agree. It just looks really cool, like 2454 02:03:53,640 --> 02:03:56,400 the visuals of them all. It's really bright, it's fun. 2455 02:03:57,160 --> 02:03:59,400 The Cold War paranoia stuff is good. 2456 02:03:59,400 --> 02:04:02,920 Billy. Obviously Hopper's death, when 2457 02:04:02,920 --> 02:04:04,800 it was real, that kind of mattered. 2458 02:04:04,840 --> 02:04:07,080 You know, he died at the end there, and he just got together 2459 02:04:07,080 --> 02:04:08,360 with Joyce and he's saying goodbye. 2460 02:04:08,600 --> 02:04:11,480 Then Joyce has to like, look at 11 outside the mall and she 2461 02:04:11,480 --> 02:04:12,880 identifies it. Hopper's dead. 2462 02:04:13,160 --> 02:04:15,400 That wrecked me. And then she reads the letter as 2463 02:04:15,400 --> 02:04:18,360 they move away to California. It's it's emotional. 2464 02:04:18,360 --> 02:04:20,440 That was like some Toy Story shit, Yeah. 2465 02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:24,720 Yeah, wow, Toy Story is a good comp even for Season 5. 2466 02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:27,640 When Mike sees all the kids come downstairs to play DND and take 2467 02:04:27,640 --> 02:04:31,520 their words, it feels like Toys and Toy Story 3. 2468 02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:32,560 Yeah. Giving them to Bonnie. 2469 02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:36,320 The 4th and 5th best season, so that we're ranking the bottom 2 2470 02:04:36,320 --> 02:04:37,360 here. What do you think? 2471 02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:40,680 To end the conversation, is season 5 the worst or season 2? 2472 02:04:40,720 --> 02:04:43,560 Season 2 and then Season 5. South season 5 is the worst, I 2473 02:04:43,600 --> 02:04:45,760 think so I agree. Yeah, 'cause Season 2 has its 2474 02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:46,840 moments of being really good at Yeah. 2475 02:04:46,840 --> 02:04:49,040 Season 2 is interesting with the mind player. 2476 02:04:49,040 --> 02:04:53,720 I really like Bob as an additional character there. 2477 02:04:53,840 --> 02:04:57,120 Yeah, season 2 has its moments. It definitely drags as a second 2478 02:04:57,120 --> 02:05:01,640 season and season. 2 is Max ability yeah. 2479 02:05:01,640 --> 02:05:05,600 And also we have like the Ghostbusters, the meeting Max, 2480 02:05:05,600 --> 02:05:07,280 and that was fun for trick or treating. 2481 02:05:08,280 --> 02:05:10,360 So there, yeah, there's a lot of fun things going on in in Season 2482 02:05:10,360 --> 02:05:12,200 2, but it's just not. Steve and Dustin have their like 2483 02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:15,280 their railroad talk, you know? The stand by me kind. 2484 02:05:15,280 --> 02:05:18,240 Of yeah, the Stand by me thing. They start becoming best friends 2485 02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:19,640 that season. That's really cool. 2486 02:05:20,280 --> 02:05:22,200 Yeah, Season 5 is the worst. That's really sad. 2487 02:05:22,360 --> 02:05:23,440 Oh well. Oh well. 2488 02:05:23,440 --> 02:05:26,720 This was a farewell to Stranger Things as a whole, So I hope you 2489 02:05:26,720 --> 02:05:29,000 enjoyed this conversation and this episode. 2490 02:05:30,160 --> 02:05:33,640 While we were negative about Season 5, like obviously we. 2491 02:05:33,640 --> 02:05:36,160 I thought we were pretty nice. OK, well we were critical 2492 02:05:36,160 --> 02:05:38,960 because we also love the show so. 2493 02:05:39,240 --> 02:05:41,160 Exactly. We love the show, gave us a 2494 02:05:41,160 --> 02:05:43,440 decade of memories that I won't forget. 2495 02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:45,680 And it was awesome to experience watching a show with you because 2496 02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:47,400 we've been together obviously longer than 10 years. 2497 02:05:47,400 --> 02:05:50,320 So it's cool to experience that, you know, because we never 2498 02:05:50,320 --> 02:05:51,600 experienced Harry Potter together. 2499 02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:53,480 That's true. So it's pretty cool to have this 2500 02:05:55,600 --> 02:05:57,400 and I know there's an animated version of the show coming out 2501 02:05:57,400 --> 02:05:58,560 next year. It's going to be taking place 2502 02:05:58,560 --> 02:06:00,920 between season 2 and season 3. That looks like a monster house. 2503 02:06:01,200 --> 02:06:02,840 I could give a shit. I'm going to let the kids have 2504 02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:04,080 that. Like I'm done. 2505 02:06:04,080 --> 02:06:06,720 I don't want I don't want that. I don't want the Montauk spin 2506 02:06:06,720 --> 02:06:09,000 off either. The Montauk, David Harbour, 2507 02:06:09,600 --> 02:06:12,880 Winona Ryder show where he's like a detective, like Brody. 2508 02:06:12,880 --> 02:06:14,200 Jaws kind. Of it's over. 2509 02:06:14,400 --> 02:06:16,160 I don't want it. I want the show to be over. 2510 02:06:17,240 --> 02:06:18,800 OK, what do we have next on the main feed? 2511 02:06:19,720 --> 02:06:24,920 Not sure good question. January we have 2828 years later 2512 02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:27,120 Part 2. Cannot wait coming out in about 2513 02:06:27,120 --> 02:06:29,880 a week and a half. Two weeks on Patreon. 2514 02:06:29,880 --> 02:06:33,280 We just covered Knives Out the whole franchise. 2515 02:06:33,280 --> 02:06:35,360 Good three hour episode there. So check out our Patreon for 2516 02:06:35,360 --> 02:06:37,840 free episodes for. An accidental 3 hour episode 2517 02:06:37,840 --> 02:06:40,400 where we talked about Glass Onion, right? 2518 02:06:40,560 --> 02:06:42,720 Wake Up Dead Man and Knives Out. Yeah, but a lot of fun. 2519 02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:44,560 For free members right now on Patreon, you can sign up in the 2520 02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:45,840 description. You get a bunch of free 2521 02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:47,800 episodes, but Knives Out for paid members. 2522 02:06:48,440 --> 02:06:50,080 And then we'll have Titanic very soon. 2523 02:06:50,080 --> 02:06:52,560 And then for January, we're going to be covering Rob Reiner. 2524 02:06:52,560 --> 02:06:56,320 Rest in peace to him and his wife, his, I think, best film, 2525 02:06:56,320 --> 02:06:59,240 When Harry Met Sally. And we'll talk about his 2526 02:06:59,240 --> 02:07:01,200 filmography on there and him as a film maker. 2527 02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:04,440 And they'll also will be covering About Time because 2528 02:07:04,440 --> 02:07:06,760 Rachel McAdams has a movie coming out the end of January, 2529 02:07:06,960 --> 02:07:09,240 the Sam Raimi horror film with Dylan O'Brien, my guy. 2530 02:07:09,960 --> 02:07:14,240 And About Time is our favorite ROM com of the 21st century. 2531 02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:18,280 Yeah, there's some competition. Those Silver Linings. 2532 02:07:18,280 --> 02:07:20,280 We just rewatched that recently and I was like damn this is. 2533 02:07:20,280 --> 02:07:22,360 Really. A lot in common with Harry 2534 02:07:22,360 --> 02:07:24,680 mentality, yeah. Yeah, All right, We'll be back. 2535 02:07:24,680 --> 02:07:25,640 Peace. Bye.