1
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,920
The. 
Hello, welcome to the extra 

2
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,000
credits of Curry Barker's 
Obsession, one of the best 

3
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,480
horror movies I've seen in 
years. 

4
00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,000
That is basically 500 Days of 
Summer meets Hereditary. 

5
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,120
I'm Trey. 
And I'm Kelsey. 

6
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,280
That's such a great way to 
describe it. 

7
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,680
Yeah, it's sort of AI guess 
Manic Pixie Dream Girl turned on

8
00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,080
its head into You're going to 
get what you want Joseph Gordon 

9
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,880
Levitt in this Manic Pixie 
Dream. 

10
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,840
Did you see the the Zooey 
Deschanela poster in his room? 

11
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:45,320
What? 
No, I'm just kidding. 

12
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,600
Oh, OK. 
I've been like confirmed. 

13
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,040
OK, so I I love this movie. 
I already confirmed that. 

14
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,240
I revealed it at the top by 
saying this is one of the best 

15
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,760
horror movies that I've seen in 
years. 

16
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,760
Because I already said that. 
I think it's your job now to 

17
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,840
balance out the conversation per
usual. 

18
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,760
I think about, you know, whether
or not this movie is an instant 

19
00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,960
classic, as I called it on 
Letterbox, even though I said it

20
00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:13,200
was a Gen. 
Z instant classic, and I do feel

21
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,560
that way. 
OK, I can get on board with a 

22
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,680
Gen. 
Z instant classic and I can get 

23
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,320
on board with saying that it's 
one of the better horror movies 

24
00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:27,320
that I've seen in a long time. 
But I think, you know, I'm not 

25
00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,360
as high on as on it as you. 
Yeah. 

26
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,200
What was your reaction walking 
out of the theater? 

27
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,160
I think mostly I just dislike 
feeling horror dread. 

28
00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:42,320
It's just a it's a personal like
relationship that I have to 

29
00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,920
horror movies. 
Like I don't really like monster

30
00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,640
movies or dread movies. 
Those are my least favorite like

31
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,080
sub genres. 
Although I would say the monster

32
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,800
is actually a sub genre of 
horror. 

33
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,280
The dread induced horror is more
of like a tonal approach to 

34
00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,400
horror, not like a sub genre. 
But I just don't like I I talked

35
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,560
about this on me like these 
episodes this year, but and on 

36
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,440
the the podcast in general. 
But I didn't really love Lynn 

37
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,320
Ramsey's die my love, even 
though I really wanted to 

38
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,200
because I love Jennifer Lawrence
and I love Robert Pattinson. 

39
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaking of Gen. 
ZI am Gen. 

40
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,560
Z, Rob Patt. 
But I think I think that like 

41
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,720
that movie was just a, you know,
two hours of like dread 

42
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,280
inducing. 
It could be like a horror 

43
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,400
adjacent movie. 
And I I don't like that even 

44
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,800
with like popular horror films 
like Midsummer, right. 

45
00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:47,720
And I was I gave another example
before, but there are other 

46
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,040
movies that are like popular. 
I'll think about it in our 

47
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,640
conversation as we go, but I 
just don't, I just don't like 

48
00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:57,600
sitting through dread inducing 
like horror specifically. 

49
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,960
And so I think that is just why 
I'm not as high on it as you. 

50
00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:05,520
I think it's interesting. 
But ultimately there is a 

51
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:13,120
component to horror movies that 
do feel a little bit like, I 

52
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,000
don't know, it's like a I guess 
I'll just say it, whatever. 

53
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,640
I'm trying not to be like rude 
because I think it was a good 

54
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,720
movie and well crafted, but it 
does feel like a man is like, I 

55
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,800
have a interesting idea and now 
I'm going to like add dread to 

56
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,280
it and then like have people sit
through this as instead of like 

57
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,120
me feeling intellectually 
interested or like pushed 

58
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,000
further. 
I don't think that's totally 

59
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,040
fair for this movie or 
Midsummer, for example. 

60
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,920
I think these are like the top 
of that, that like tonal 

61
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,520
approach to horror for me. 
So that being said, maybe it is 

62
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,480
like, you know, a five star 
movie in that genre, but I just 

63
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,920
don't like the prolonged like 
feeling when I'm not feeling at 

64
00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,920
the same time intellectually 
challenged if the tone is so 

65
00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:02,080
similar throughout the movie. 
So would you say it's fair to 

66
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,320
say you don't like movies that 
are going out of their way to 

67
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,400
consume you rather than like, 
have a dialogue with the 

68
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,360
audience? 
Yeah. 

69
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,760
Like I think, if that makes 
sense. 

70
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,560
Yeah, like Ari Astor's, you 
know, Midsummer, for example, 

71
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:20,000
like the opening with Florence 
Pugh and like the sister. 

72
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,400
Yeah. 
And then like throughout there 

73
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,600
are I, I would say that's like 
the, the top, you know, example 

74
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,920
of what he, what Ari Astor's 
able to do and like, why he's 

75
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,640
one of my favorite horror 
directors, but 'cause he's doing

76
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,560
something interesting with 
masculinity throughout that. 

77
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,040
But still, I walk away from that
movie every time and I'm just 

78
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,640
like, I just didn't like, I 
don't know. 

79
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:43,880
I didn't love my experience with
that. 

80
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,960
Not obviously you're not 
supposed to love your experience

81
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,440
with like a horror movie, but I 
want to. 

82
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,240
I want something like 
interesting to like build for 

83
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,000
me. 
And sometimes that just like 

84
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,920
doesn't happen. 
It did in Midsummer. 

85
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,840
It didn't as much in this movie.
The Phillippe brothers made a 

86
00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:00,400
movie last year, the sequel to 
Talk. 

87
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,280
To me, that was the other one. 
Talk to me. 

88
00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:06,080
I I came away with a very 
similar reaction to this movie. 

89
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,320
I I want to call it like feel 
bad. 

90
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,720
Horror, that's what it is. 
And I think I'll push back a 

91
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,840
little bit about the 
intellectual parts, but maybe 

92
00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:18,760
that's just because my personal 
experience with it was more, I 

93
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,320
felt more welcomed into a 
dialogue between the bear 

94
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,880
character and his character 
study of this cautionary tale. 

95
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,720
As well as this like darker 
fable about what it's like to be

96
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:32,040
a modern woman dating or being 
friends with a man, which I 

97
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,960
found to be I'm laughing because
but this is actually like a 

98
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,400
tragedy about this, this woman 
in this movie. 

99
00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:39,640
It's a spoiler warning moving 
forward. 

100
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,240
Go see this movie in a theater. 
Yeah, definitely. 

101
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,840
It's a good theater experience. 
I think it's an excellent 

102
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:49,160
theater experience. 
I got I was fucked up from this 

103
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,360
movie. 
It disturbs me in a lot of ways.

104
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,680
As Kelsey is saying, and I know 
what you're saying, the movies 

105
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,520
that are a little bit more 
emotionally off putting to a 

106
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,160
degree that it almost feels like
overly mean spirited, but not 

107
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,920
mean, like we can't handle it, 
but mean unnecessarily. 

108
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,560
Like I understand what you're 
saying. 

109
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,200
If that's I guess it correct. 
I would say it's I'm, I have 

110
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,960
less of the approach of like, 
oh, I'm, I'm feeling like, like 

111
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,880
I hear men talk about this in 
terms of, well, there's also 

112
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,480
more like men in the movie 
podcasting space and critic 

113
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,080
space. 
But a lot of men will say 

114
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,720
something like, oh, like I 
didn't like that the I was 

115
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,320
feeling the director was 
manipulating me or trying to 

116
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,040
outsmart me. 
That's not what I'm saying at 

117
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,640
all. 
It's more so like the singular 

118
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,120
tone and then also me feeling 
bored from that if that makes 

119
00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,000
sense. 
Yeah, I get that. 

120
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,840
There's a moment, though, in 
this movie where Nikki, our lead

121
00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:41,880
character in the film, is has 
been possessed and she's 

122
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,960
standing in the corner of Bear's
room and they start doing 

123
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,240
something. 
There's expert level lighting in

124
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,680
this movie. 
The shadows over faces is like, 

125
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:52,800
insane. 
It made me think of. 

126
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:54,640
And. 
This was the comparison I was 

127
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,960
going to make. 
Kyoshi Kurosawa's Cure as a 

128
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,080
psychological horror. 
And I thought a lot about that 

129
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,920
movie while watching this. 
And that is a huge compliment to

130
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,240
this 20 something director who 
just made their first feature 

131
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,600
film, who's made a lot of shorts
obviously, and is like, it was a

132
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,200
YouTube at one point in a Tik 
Toker. 

133
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,200
But he's been a director for I 
think it's like 7 or 8 years 

134
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,440
now. 
But he's only made some short 

135
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,000
films that one or two have done 
well, a longer one on YouTube 

136
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,640
that did very well. 
But this movie I, I felt the 

137
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,600
almost complete opposite to 
Kelsey walking out. 

138
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,360
Kelsey had like almost like a 3 
1/2 star experience with this. 

139
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,200
I think, if that's fair to say. 
I walked out being like, oh, 

140
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,720
this is a this is an instant 
classic movie. 

141
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,200
This is one of the best original
horror movies that I've seen 

142
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,200
since Barbarian. 
If we're not counting Jordan 

143
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,720
Peele's Nope, because that might
be more like sci-fi and then 

144
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,360
horror, like science fiction 
with horror elements. 

145
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,600
This is probably the best horror
movie I've seen since Barbarian,

146
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,320
which I think is like a a huge 
compliment to this filmmaker and

147
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,640
this crew, to Indy Navaretti, 
the actress who plays the quote 

148
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,440
UN quote scream queen of the 
movie. 

149
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,320
We'll get into that performance.
I think it's an all time 

150
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:05,840
performance. 
We're going to talk about. 

151
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,920
I have a couple of my favorite 
all time horror performances 

152
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,200
from lead woman in the history 
of movies that I want to, you 

153
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,680
know, talk about with you to see
what people think in our 

154
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:15,880
comments. 
I can let us know, but. 

155
00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,400
That's exciting. 
I just felt like this, you know,

156
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,720
like I said, on a crafts level, 
the the shadows, yes, but also 

157
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,360
just the the rhythm of the 
scares of this movie, The the 

158
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,000
ability to have a little bit of 
like hesitancy with not trying 

159
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,039
to overload the audience with 
like annoying jump scares like 

160
00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,320
other movies we've seen 
recently, like the Boogeyman or 

161
00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:42,039
smile or smile 2 or long legs. 
Smile 2 is a great smile. 

162
00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:47,240
Also, smile one and two are are 
both good examples of like sort 

163
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,400
of the C tier or C tier of like 
this movie. 

164
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,640
Like I would say I I liked 
smile. 

165
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,640
It's interesting. 
I like to smile more than you 

166
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,880
because I was like this is just 
like dumb like and I I like it. 

167
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:04,960
Like I like the the jump scares.
Extremely repetitive while like 

168
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,280
kind of like being extremely 
successful. 

169
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,080
It had like a very singular like
thing. 

170
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,000
It was trying to approach with 
like mental health and like I 

171
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,840
was like, oh, this is I'm fine 
with this where you wanted it to

172
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,960
do something more. 
So it's it's interesting. 

173
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,800
Like I'm I'm interested to hear 
why you loved this so much. 

174
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,520
Well, to stick on the smile .1 
of the things that's really 

175
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,240
annoying about smile in the 
quote UN quote elevated horror 

176
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,000
genre right now. 
And what's happened with Ari 

177
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,680
Astor, what's happened with 
Jordan Peele, Robert Eggers to a

178
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:36,800
certain extent, even Alex 
Garland with men is that there's

179
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,120
so many horror films really 
since Hereditary that are more 

180
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:45,120
about world building and giant 
mythologies and lore then they 

181
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,280
are about the characters and 
what they're going through in a 

182
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,000
more personal setting. 
And the great part about 

183
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,080
Hereditary is it's a blend of 
both in Midsummer as well. 

184
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,840
And that's why Ari is probably 
the the king of the horror genre

185
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,640
over the last decade with Jordan
Peele probably sitting right 

186
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:06,280
next to him with us and get out,
obviously, and whatever he has 

187
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,280
coming next. 
But I found this movie to be 

188
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,360
really satisfying and how 
grounded its approach was. 

189
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,560
It was like, yes, there's a 
magical stick that does some 

190
00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:18,360
shit. 
And yes, there's a, you know, 

191
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,880
customer service line that you 
might be talking to a Gen. 

192
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,400
Z devil. 
The voice of that, the voice of 

193
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,200
that guy by the. 
Way is Curry Barker the film. 

194
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,360
Maker Oh, is it really OK? 
And he may let you in on the 

195
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,880
actual soul of the person that 
you've, I guess, bewitched, 

196
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,560
Yeah, who is now possessed by 
some kind of demon. 

197
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:44,320
And I found that one wish Willow
conceit to be something that a 

198
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,840
lot of film makers would have 
been like. 

199
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,920
I found the perfect way to make 
the new Hellraiser franchise. 

200
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,800
I found the perfect way to make 
the new Final Destination, which

201
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,920
is kind of like what the Talk to
Me brothers are doing right now.

202
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,760
And I really appreciate that 
this director didn't really give

203
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,400
a shit about the magic. 
He cared more about what the 

204
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,400
relationship represented. 
And that gets more to the 

205
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,000
intellectual point. 
I really like this movie and 

206
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,240
it's screenplay. 
I think the text is really deep.

207
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,240
And I am not just saying that 
this is like a Gen. 

208
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,880
Z movie in a superficial way 
because there's like like 25 

209
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,360
year old actors in it. 
I think it's really smart about 

210
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,760
how it's it's really smart to 
move away from trauma and almost

211
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,360
to make its protagonist Bear, 
who, quote UN quote, is 

212
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,040
traumatized because he's like 
lost family members or he lost 

213
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,080
the cat. 
And he should be the person who 

214
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,800
is like traumatized in the 
movie, but his traumas are made 

215
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,720
to be looked at as like, sort of
like mediocre in comparison to 

216
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,320
what he's doing to this woman. 
And I found that to be really 

217
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,520
special because a lot of horrors
about trauma right now. 

218
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,080
And then I think what made this 
movie so specific about Gen. 

219
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,480
Z is that it understands 
something very, I think, unique 

220
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,120
about modern relationship 
culture, which is that we have 

221
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,040
younger generations who want to 
be more relationship fluid, more

222
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,520
emotionally open, more 
progressive about monogamy and 

223
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,240
unconditional love, which is 
what Bear represents. 

224
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,080
But also still sort of being 
haunted by older romantic ideas 

225
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,320
about soul mates and about 
finding quote UN quote the one 

226
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,560
and this movie suggesting that 
Bear and his version of the one 

227
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,800
and his like male entitlement 
over whatever woman he views as 

228
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,160
quote UN quote. 
The one is inherently violent in

229
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,560
a very possessive and jealous, 
jealousy based way. 

230
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,360
I thought that was really, 
really well done and I think 

231
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,480
speaks to a lot of relationship 
anxieties across, let's say, 

232
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,600
people under the age of 30. 
Yeah, I mean, I think I think 

233
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,560
that is definitely true. 
Like I think the movie is 

234
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:35,000
interesting. 
I should have probably said that

235
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,920
at the top, like textually I do 
think the movie is interesting 

236
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,000
what to talk about, but I I 
agree. 

237
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,680
Like, I do think it captures 
this kind of like understanding 

238
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,680
of a generation who has this 
really like contradictory, 

239
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:56,000
complicated relationship with 
understanding a contract, a 

240
00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,640
construct like monogamy and not 
wanting to perpetuate kind of 

241
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,560
like the the idea like what 
you're saying this like 

242
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:11,000
heterosexual relationship and 
and gendered like ways of, well,

243
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,760
I guess like right, in terms of 
like the the concept of like not

244
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,960
wanting to perpetuate that, but 
at the same time having like 

245
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,640
this kind of like lag of 
feeling. 

246
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,280
And like that's the like often 
the mold that they're seeing in 

247
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,320
media from their parents. 
And so like they, they might 

248
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,200
feel right that like they still 
want that. 

249
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,840
And so like there's a real that 
is a really interesting like 

250
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,200
paradox. 
But I think ultimately, like 

251
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,800
you're right that I haven't seen
a movie that has explored the 

252
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:53,200
the kind of like idea that is is
embedded in like heterosexual, 

253
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,160
monogamous relationships. 
And it's like you're right 

254
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,240
though, the wishing Willow 
wasn't made into like a cult 

255
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,480
like Rosemary's Baby or 
something, even though which. 

256
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,320
Would have been cool. 
I'm cool to see that sequel, but

257
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,240
I I do think like that was just 
used right as a segue into 

258
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,880
exploring like what the movie 
was ultimately interested, 

259
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,680
interested in. 
And what I do think is 

260
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,640
interesting of this idea of 
like, like you're saying like 

261
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,360
symbolic violence, actual like 
physical violence and power 

262
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,880
dynamics that are like, are 
unequal power dynamics that are 

263
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,880
embedded in the idea of what 
people kind of like think about 

264
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,200
in terms of like heterosexual 
relationships. 

265
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,800
And so we're just like monogamy 
in general, I guess, and like US

266
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,920
culture. 
So yeah, I mean, I, I definitely

267
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:40,960
think that's interesting too. 
We. 

268
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,760
Should say the movie's very 
funny and one of the most 

269
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,600
comedic beats of the movie. 
That's sort of like meta textual

270
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,240
is as an audience, you're you've
already figured it out before 

271
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,920
Bear has said it out loud or is 
told this by the other guy in 

272
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,120
the shop later in the movie. 
But you're like, when is Bear 

273
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,760
going to kill himself? 
So he saves this woman? 

274
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,440
Like when is this like quote, UN
quote protagonist who's really 

275
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,600
sort of the antagonist of the 
movie going to figure out how to

276
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,400
save her. 
And then it's not until she's 

277
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,760
like, bear, can you please kill 
me so I can like, move on 

278
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,560
because I'm being possessed by 
this demon. 

279
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,520
And he's like, you don't want to
be with me. 

280
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,560
Well, no, he's importantly says 
right, like which it it does a 

281
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,040
really good job, which we'll 
we'll talk about of this like 

282
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,200
seemingly what you said at the 
beginning, like seemingly nice 

283
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,280
guy, right, that is still like, 
I guess like. 

284
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,520
Joseph Gordon Levitt from 500. 
Days ago, yeah, Yeah. 

285
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,720
But to use I guess like horror 
adjacent language infected with 

286
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,200
this idea of like masculinity 
and what he deserves. 

287
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,120
And and so he importantly in 
that scene when she asks to kill

288
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,080
her, right. 
Because she says I've never been

289
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,320
with you. 
It's always been like this other

290
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,240
demon thing. 
Yeah, manic Pixie demon, I 

291
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,720
think, as you said before. 
Many Pixie dream demon manic. 

292
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:57,480
Yeah, what I coined it. 
Yeah, you you should stamp it 

293
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,880
because it's amazing. 
But but when she says that, he 

294
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,920
in response says what's so bad 
about being with me? 

295
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,800
Right? 
Like then he becomes the even 

296
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,520
though he has been the horror 
villain. 

297
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,040
Like I think the movie does a 
really good job in that 

298
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,080
particular like space of showing
us that he's the villain but not

299
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,000
doing anything that's outwardly 
direct. 

300
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,240
That's a little bit more like 
you said, Ground did like 

301
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,120
something we would see someone 
say where like the insell creeps

302
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,240
out. 
Right. 

303
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,920
And traditionally it would be 
his friend in a horror movie who

304
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,520
would be presented as more of 
the kind of like aggro male who 

305
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,080
is really like insecure and 
fragile and is sort of insell 

306
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,400
coded in his like the way that 
he tries to present himself in a

307
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,960
very hyper aggressive way or 
something like that. 

308
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,520
That's traditionally what horror
movies do. 

309
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,200
And that's like the first person
to die. 

310
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,040
And he certainly gets killed in 
this movie at the end. 

311
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,360
Yeah. 
And like, almost in almost in a 

312
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,440
very disrespectful way, which I 
appreciated with the screen 

313
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,720
behind Nikki is, like, kind of 
blurry. 

314
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,600
And then she shoots him, but he 
falls. 

315
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,680
We don't really get to even see 
him killed, which I thought was,

316
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,359
like, funny. 
But then this movie is also 

317
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,680
confronting you with like, oh, 
here's this, like, seemingly 

318
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,079
nice, lonely guys are saying. 
But he also believes his 

319
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:14,160
feelings are so sincere that 
they entitle him to her body or 

320
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,280
her soul in this movie for its 
conceit. 

321
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,440
So let's get into the movie. 
There's a couple things I want 

322
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,560
to keep in mind throughout the 
conversation that are just like 

323
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,400
3 big notes that I was really 
impressed about. 

324
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,920
First, the thing we already just
touched on, masculinity. 

325
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,040
The ways in which this movie 
finds men are embarrassing I 

326
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,440
found to be really satisfying 
and funny and not like in a 

327
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,760
virtue signaling way, which is 
impressive in a really precise 

328
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,880
way where like male loneliness 
and self pity become really 

329
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,360
dangerous in our for modern men 
becoming more and more dangerous

330
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,760
because they're mistaken for 
innocence like the quiet. 

331
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,760
Sad boy who wears a sweater is. 
Timothy Chalamet and Lady Bird 

332
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,040
and then this movie, he is 
basically trapping this woman in

333
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,600
his house and I think it's 
pretty observant in that way. 

334
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,080
Second. 
But just multiple iterations of 

335
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,040
Kyle. 
Yeah, so many, Yes, a lot of 

336
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,520
Zach Braff's meets Joseph Gordon
Levitz meets Timothy Chalamet's.

337
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,240
All of their characters from 
romance movies over the last 25 

338
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,200
years. 
The second thing I want to talk 

339
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,920
about a lot is how this movie 
explores agency with Nikki's 

340
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,600
character. 
Because one of the scariest 

341
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,240
things in this movie is that 
it's not just that Nikki has 

342
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,520
like this spell cast on her to 
become like an exorcist level 

343
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,920
demon or obsessive. 
It's that her real self is 

344
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,600
trapped underneath this demonic 
exorcist performance. 

345
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,240
And her body is like, as you 
said, like from what Bear said 

346
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,960
is doing the romance. 
But as she tells him that this 

347
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:43,640
is not her controlling herself 
at all. 

348
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,320
That those are some of the 
scariest moments in the movie 

349
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,080
where you see Nikki. 
Yeah, like she comes out for two

350
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,400
seconds at a time. 
And I, and I was going to ask 

351
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,080
you and I was going to wait, but
I'll just ask you now. 

352
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,360
Do you think there's moments in 
the movie that on rewatch will 

353
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,280
go, oh, there's, there's Nikki 
in that moment. 

354
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,680
Because I even thought when she 
hits herself in the face 

355
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,680
sometimes, I was thinking, is 
that her trying to kill herself?

356
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,680
Well, no, yeah. 
That is like we're, you know, at

357
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,800
the party when which we'll talk 
about with the like, Jenga, you 

358
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,200
know, like written prompts or 
whatever that is. 

359
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,960
You're right. 
Like one of the most terrifying 

360
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,120
moments of the movie where, I 
mean, we'll talk about that 

361
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:24,000
whole scene, which is like 
disturbing, strange, like. 

362
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,480
But when she screams like, no, 
that isn't me, right? 

363
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,200
And it's just like, hits herself
in the face with a, like, really

364
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,920
thick, like, liquor bottle. 
Like, that is terrifying. 

365
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,680
But yeah, I do. 
I think that is interesting. 

366
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,600
Like, those are some of the most
scary parts of the movie. 

367
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,240
Or when she screams in bed with 
Bear at the beginning of their 

368
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,920
relationship or beginning of the
spell and they're beginning to 

369
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,400
hook up essentially and then she
screams and she jumps off the 

370
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,240
bed. 
Or later when he wakes up, she's

371
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,480
in the corner of the room. 
We already talked about that. 

372
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,080
Or doesn't she whisper to him at
one point outside of the police 

373
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,400
kill me, Isn't there another 
moment? 

374
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,240
Or is she in the bathroom? 
I forget. 

375
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,400
I forget, but yeah, there are a 
lot of there's. 

376
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,720
A lot of moments where I was 
like, is that Nikki's body or is

377
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,040
it that? 
Or is that like her soul, if 

378
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,960
that makes sense? 
Third is just the tone I really 

379
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,560
want to like focus on, even 
though this movie is so dread 

380
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,120
inducing, as you said, and kind 
of brutal sometimes. 

381
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,440
Like the way Sarah is killed, in
particular when he kills her is 

382
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,960
probably the most exploitative 
moment in the movie where I was 

383
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,520
like, probably didn't need to do
all that. 

384
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,440
But because he obviously like 
treating a like a woman's body 

385
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,480
in that way just felt inherently
uncomfortable and like sort of 

386
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,880
insensitive because I didn't 
really find a thematic point 

387
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,640
there outside of like Bear 
leading to the death of all her 

388
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,720
friends. 
Right outside of maybe like you 

389
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,640
could think about like we'll, 
we'll talk about like jealousy 

390
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:57,400
being this like theme, but that 
he wants from her almost. 

391
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,280
And and then he is like doing 
this weird thing where he then 

392
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,920
feels like after he gets the 
wish that he wants almost right,

393
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,680
that he wants to then change it 
up and, and feels like he has 

394
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,240
this power as like a man 
ultimately around the like, 

395
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,680
women in his life who have like,
pretty terrible options around 

396
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,320
them. 
So, yeah, I, I think though, 

397
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,440
like, especially thinking about 
like the legacy of like women 

398
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,840
being killed in horror in such 
exploitative ways. 

399
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:29,720
There, there. 
Yeah. 

400
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,560
There was like an element of it 
being like so grotesque. 

401
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,960
And it was like, to what point 
where? 

402
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,440
Yeah. 
I feel like something like the, 

403
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,600
I mean, you know, that's always 
the, the kind of like abject 

404
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,600
like feeling of, of seeing some 
someone like, you know, in 

405
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,520
Arioster, like people jumping 
off a Cliff or something, right?

406
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,440
Like that's also used a lot. 
But in this I, I, I felt that 

407
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,960
way, I guess like a few times 
though, throughout the movie, 

408
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,480
like even with Nikki's 
character. 

409
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,680
So that was also something that 
I was like, I, I couldn't tell. 

410
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,640
There's some things that I 
didn't know if we're like if 

411
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,320
they were super explored in 
terms of like women's like I 

412
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,640
couldn't tell. 
I guess if the movie was 

413
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,320
exploring this through bears 
wish of like a woman being like 

414
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,440
essentially like completely 
submissive to him and and being 

415
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:28,640
like obsessed with him or in 
catering to him, or if it was 

416
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,080
like also in conversation or it 
thought it was interesting that 

417
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,400
like Nikki as a woman would do 
something like this. 

418
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,800
Does that make sense? 
Like, and and of course, like, 

419
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,840
you know, there are like aspects
of being complicit in like a lot

420
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,760
of different like things. 
But it just felt, I guess there 

421
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,880
were moments throughout the 
movie and that's maybe why I 

422
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,960
wasn't as high on it coming out 
that I couldn't, that I didn't 

423
00:22:53,960 --> 00:23:00,360
feel like we're like super 
explored in terms of looking at 

424
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,480
I guess you, like you said, 
we'll talk about like Nikki's 

425
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,280
like agency, quote UN quote in 
the movie. 

426
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,120
I didn't feel like that was 
totally explored. 

427
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,560
I could have a totally different
relationship to it next time. 

428
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,040
Maybe I was a little bit like 
skeptical and in terms of like 

429
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,400
where it was going, that could 
also be. 

430
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:17,960
A part of my. 
Watching it. 

431
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Was it that you were worried 
that the audience would go like 

432
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,760
for men in particular would go, 
oh, this is funny because this 

433
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:32,200
is the fear of like getting 
actually become like having the 

434
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,280
woman of your dreams fall in 
love with you and then starting 

435
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,320
an unconditional relationship 
only to then be like, I actually

436
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,840
want a conditional relationship.
And that in that way it becomes 

437
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,400
a comedy for men, like a dark 
absurd or a comedy for men to 

438
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,400
laugh at. 
Like I actually don't want a 

439
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,000
woman who doesn't want me to go 
to guys night. 

440
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,680
Yes, like I felt like they were.
You know it was commenting on. 

441
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,400
That yeah, it was commenting on 
that like I think at the end and

442
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,400
I'm and I'm find it like talk 
about it with that that lens. 

443
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,120
But I do think there are like 
aspects of it that just weren't 

444
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:11,400
as I guess, like as clear like 
it felt like there were certain 

445
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,920
jokes that were like that 
someone who didn't view the 

446
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,360
movie as bear as the villain 
that could interpret it like, 

447
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,200
oh, this is funny because this 
is like what happens in a 

448
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,160
relationship and like 
essentializing like, you know, 

449
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,840
like gender, like behavior or 
something of like, Oh yeah, like

450
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,960
women are obsessive or 
something, you know, like, but 

451
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:37,040
obviously they're like the movie
is pushing you to to think about

452
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,520
bear and as ruining her life 
because it's he learns that he 

453
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,840
can only like kill himself to to
save her. 

454
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,600
So like he is ultimately the one
who is like doing this to her 

455
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,880
and trapping Nikki. 
So like, it's hard to read it 

456
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,600
the other way, but I did feel 
like there were moments I guess,

457
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,880
where it was like this could be 
kind of confused. 

458
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,880
Well, it's a really interesting,
I'm sure on rewatch because it's

459
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:05,480
mostly from his POV, textually 
and subtextually, where the only

460
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,960
time we get to really see Nikki 
talk on her own and say her own 

461
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,000
interests or what she wants in 
the world or to find out more 

462
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,400
about her humanity is when she 
talks about that she's writing a

463
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,040
book and she wants to, you know,
a romance book. 

464
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,840
And I think he says like a love 
story. 

465
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:20,600
And she was like, there's a 
difference. 

466
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,960
I'm pretty sure is what she 
says. 

467
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,680
Oh, right, yeah. 
And he was kind of confused by 

468
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:31,880
that and which makes sense, and 
she wanted to move away and he 

469
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,400
was almost trying to convince 
her to stay. 

470
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,240
What I found to be really 
successful about that aspect is 

471
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,320
that both versions of Nikki, the
Manic Pixie Dream Girl and the 

472
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:47,880
Manic Manic Pixie Dream Demon, 
it is hard to say are male 

473
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,000
products of a male gaze from 
bear like a psychological gaze 

474
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,320
in particular, which is like 
really interesting to me. 

475
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:57,800
Like as somebody who is also 
thinking about how is the 

476
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,880
average movie goer watching this
film? 

477
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,200
How are they taking this in 
where not to be like pretentious

478
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,160
about it, but where is the media
literacy on on this level? 

479
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,440
And then also taking the 
consideration that I could be 

480
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,280
over reading it and I'm giving 
this like 26 year old filmmaker 

481
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,360
too much credit, whatever, like 
which I also don't want to be 

482
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:15,800
Aegis. 
He could be a, you know, a great

483
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,560
screenwriter. 
I have no idea, but he seems 

484
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:20,720
like he's a very good 
screenwriter. 

485
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,640
So I just know when we watched 
Barbarian and we analyzed it and

486
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,680
we were like, this is amazing 
for all these reasons, the the 

487
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,400
feminism of it, the 
gentrification of it, the 

488
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,040
history of it, the Reaganism of 
it. 

489
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,920
And we talked to Zach and he was
like, that's all. 

490
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,560
There really wasn't my 
intention. 

491
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,680
I was talking about sobriety. 
You know what I mean? 

492
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,880
Like, I was talking about going 
through a difficult time and 

493
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,080
exploring the demons in your 
basement and uncovering those 

494
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,760
and confronting those, which is 
a beautiful, like, poignant, 

495
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,840
like poetic way to make a horror
movie. 

496
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,760
But this movie I do find I feel 
more comfortable to be like 

497
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:54,960
there was a little bit more 
intention. 

498
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,280
Well, yeah, it feels more 
intentional, like very focused 

499
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,120
on this idea. 
I think it's fair to and the 

500
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,480
Third Point I wanted to know was
just looking out for more horror

501
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,080
comedy tones, but I think I 
already mentioned that. 

502
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:09,240
All right, so getting into the 
story, we'll start with Bear. 

503
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,640
What do you think about this 
performance from Michael 

504
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,720
Johnston? 
Does he just kind of get, like, 

505
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,160
outplayed by Indy? 
Never ready, Indy never ready, 

506
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,080
never ready. 
Yeah. 

507
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,440
I think the casting was great. 
Like I don't know what the 

508
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,400
budget was on this, but I'm 
assuming. 

509
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,920
It was like 500 grand. 
OK, yeah, I was like assuming 

510
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,040
not a lot and that's wild then 
considering like the actual 

511
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,120
filmmaking, which is great and 
like editing. 

512
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,560
But anyway, just with the 
performance, I feel like the 

513
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,720
casting was so great in picking 
someone that actually does seem 

514
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,920
like he is genuinely like good 
intentioned, right? 

515
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,400
Like, he he at the very start 
when we open and we have that, 

516
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,640
like, monologue from him, he's 
kind of like nervous and twitchy

517
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,320
and wants to to be like, I guess
like, nice and healthy. 

518
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:08,720
He's professing his love to 
someone who I guess is we didn't

519
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,200
even realize, like, it wasn't 
their friend. 

520
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,400
It's like the waitress. 
Yeah. 

521
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,920
And then his friend is like 
watching him do this. 

522
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,800
So it's like this exercise. 
And he's telling Nikki like 

523
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,040
that, you know, you were there 
for me, like all these like 

524
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,400
things that are seemingly like 
sweet and the the best friend, 

525
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,760
like frat adjacent, you know, 
guy who reminds me of so many 

526
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,960
other, I guess, just like 
characters in movies. 2013 Miles

527
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,400
Teller. 
Okay, but there's like another 

528
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,200
there are other like actors too 
that he really reminded me of, 

529
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,560
but I I don't know their name so
but. 

530
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,840
Name somebody from 13 reasons 
why there's a lot of like high 

531
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,400
school actors like. 
This guy exactly. 

532
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,160
Yeah, so, but anyway, so back to
the the bear character, though, 

533
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,000
He he just did, he was like such
a good, he did such a good job 

534
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960
at portraying like that, that 
kind of like seemingly nice, but

535
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:09,040
still like self focused, like 
type of seemingly like healthy 

536
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,160
masculinity. 
Like it's on the right track in 

537
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,840
the spectrum versus like, you 
know, toxic friend, like that's 

538
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,320
what he's like coded out because
then his friend is like just 

539
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,040
call her freaky Nicky, right. 
And she he's like, no, why would

540
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,520
I like insult her, right? 
Why would I like use like your, 

541
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,120
your like traditional tools of 
trying to like court her or 

542
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:31,720
whatever. 
Yeah. 

543
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440
And we learned he's the anti 
wing man because there's a very,

544
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,520
very specific reason why he's 
trying to. 

545
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,520
To mess up their yeah, a 
connection, but but even then 

546
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,200
like it's not is it really a 
connection? 

547
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,640
Like I want to talk about that, 
that conversation where she 

548
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,040
leaves him after the bar because
like she asks him, do you like 

549
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,640
me? 
And I want to ask you like in a 

550
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,320
second what that means to you. 
But regardless, I thought it was

551
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,200
like he did a good job of like 
it was even interesting. 

552
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Like as we got deeper into the 
movie and Nikki was transformed,

553
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,080
he could seemingly be like this 
person who was like, no, like 

554
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,240
you are so beautiful. 
Like I love you for who you are.

555
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,160
Like I feel so much empathy for 
what you're going through. 

556
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,440
And he like did this to her, 
though, like, he doesn't, like, 

557
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,360
he doesn't seem to have any 
like, idea of like 

558
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,480
responsibility in terms of like 
he emotionally feels it and he 

559
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,840
has performance like shows that.
But intellectually he's like 

560
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,840
pushing it away. 
And I don't know how he's able 

561
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,640
to do that, but he delivers 
that, at least for me on screen.

562
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280
What do you think? 
Yeah, cosign all that. 

563
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,800
I think it's probably because 
there's so many, like we just 

564
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,000
joked about with Braff and 
Levitt and Chalamet, there's so 

565
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:56,200
many romantic versions of the 
awkward, shy introvert who at 

566
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,120
worst is pathetic but ultimately
is harmless. 

567
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,400
Logan Lehrman, like actors like 
that. 

568
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,760
And they're especially like 
white men who still who have an 

569
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,520
innocence to them, a 
youthfulness to them, but have 

570
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,240
sort of been traumatized by 
something. 

571
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,600
So they're kind of interesting. 
Austin Abram. 

572
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,000
Austin Abrams is sort of falling
into this too now. 

573
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,040
And I like this actor. 
Plays that type extremely well 

574
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,880
and then basically satirizes it 
in an effective way as to what 

575
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:28,240
you're saying. 
Because he views, he basically 

576
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,720
sees himself as so nice that his
entitlement or like to somebody 

577
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,000
else can't be looked at as that.
It must just be a long king. 

578
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,440
And he sort of completes 
yearning with his entitlement, I

579
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,960
guess, of her body and her soul,
which is like he thinks he's 

580
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,720
just basically the guy from 
Pride and Prejudice when really.

581
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,720
Mr. Darcy or? 
Mr. Darcy, I thought you. 

582
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,400
Meant Mr. Is it Bingham thing? 
No, I mean. 

583
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,320
Hand Flexer Mr. Darcy, yeah, he 
thinks he's that I think like, I

584
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,360
think he thinks he's like really
yearning and being respectful 

585
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,560
and is trying to do everything 
quote UN quote by the book and 

586
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,600
everything, right? 
And because he did everything 

587
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,240
quote UN quote, right, he is 
sort of obligated to have this 

588
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,160
wish, which is like, if there's 
anything, I don't think there's 

589
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,040
anything more defining of like 
modern the the failures of 

590
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,640
modern masculinity than than 
that which is really well done 

591
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,320
in the writing, in the 
performance. 

592
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:31,640
So basically the kind of the 
thing with Bear early on is he 

593
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,040
has opportunities to say how he 
feels. 

594
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,560
Going back to your point, you 
want to bring up Nikki, whether 

595
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,200
she actually liked him back or 
what she was asking him. 

596
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,280
Yeah. 
I guess that is the question of 

597
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,600
her. 
First of all, also her 

598
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,720
performance, which we'll we'll 
talk about is like amazing. 

599
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,480
It's my extra credit. 
OK, yeah, it's wild. 

600
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,840
Yeah, there's not a good 
adjective to describe what she's

601
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,760
doing. 
She's doing like 6 performances.

602
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,200
In the So Scary. 
It is singular. 

603
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,840
It is like, I haven't felt this 
way since Lupita Nuongo and us. 

604
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,080
Like that's how big of a deal it
is for me personally. 

605
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,560
Yeah. 
I mean that's a great comp to to

606
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,160
because she has to like do the 
dual personality also here for 

607
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,520
sure. 
So, yeah, I would, I guess I 

608
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:21,040
wanted to ask like at at that 
conversation where they're in 

609
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,000
the car and they're coming home 
from like trivia. 

610
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,680
There seems to be like this, 
this conversation like going on 

611
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,080
between them where they are 
friends and have like a, a 

612
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,400
pretty good relationship with 
each other. 

613
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,880
In terms of like her saying, you
know, you're the only person I 

614
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,240
can like talk to about my book, 
like maybe seeming seemingly 

615
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,880
saying like you're the only 
person also who like shows 

616
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,280
interest in that. 
But then when she gets out of 

617
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,160
the car, I forget exactly how it
happens, but she says, like, do 

618
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,280
you like me? 
I think she like turns around 

619
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,600
and, and she asks him. 
And in that moment I, I was 

620
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,280
wondering if the movie was like 
playing with us or playing with 

621
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,480
the idea of like the, the trope 
of that of like, oh, here's his 

622
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:12,480
chance from the male POV to like
to be like, yes, I'll say yes. 

623
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,280
And then she'll be like, oh, of 
course, you know what I mean? 

624
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,880
Like, it was all that was like 
really interesting to me because

625
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,920
I I couldn't tell if the movie 
was playing with us or not. 

626
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,400
I think it was is now after 
seeing the whole thing is like 

627
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:27,560
what? 
Feels like it's satirizing the 

628
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,719
ROM com and because at one point
I think I turned to you about 20

629
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,440
minutes and I was like, I'd 
watch a ROM com with these two 

630
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,520
because they have good 
chemistry. 

631
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,560
I would too. 
Yeah, or if it's just platonic 

632
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,719
friends figuring out that they 
don't like each other or her 

633
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,639
kind of slow quitting that idea 
for him, if he's like obsessed 

634
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,159
with her. 
And I think that was really 

635
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:47,400
successful about the 
relationship. 

636
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,880
I think it's really important it
started there, rather than 

637
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,520
starting with the wishing 
Willow. 

638
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,600
And it's like or wishing Willow,
the one wish Willow and its 

639
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:01,840
origins from a witch from 7000 
years ago who created a stick. 

640
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,440
So I'm glad it started there. 
I thought it was really 

641
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,160
successful, but I think, yeah, 
she was saying, do you like me 

642
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,760
as to sort of like prevent that?
Like, clear the air, sort of. 

643
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,560
Yeah. 
Like, have the conversation. 

644
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,360
Yeah. 
OK. 

645
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,960
But it wasn't that she liked 
him. 

646
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,320
I don't think so, but I think 
the movie is. 

647
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,000
I think it's a smart commercial 
decision. 

648
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,800
I would not have made it, but 
like it is a smart commercial 

649
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,120
decision to allow men to go. 
You fucked that up because you 

650
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,320
didn't have to. 
If you didn't break, if you 

651
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,880
didn't break that, you could 
have just made that work. 

652
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,200
Could have just knocked on the 
door and talked to her and hung 

653
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,840
out and like figured out where 
your relationship could have 

654
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:45,200
gone and instead you basically 
were what maybe some men would 

655
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,520
say while watching this movie 
were a beta and you broke the 

656
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,720
stick and now you have a demonic
girlfriend. 

657
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,600
So I think I can imagine a mid 
20 year old man writing it in 

658
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,640
that way. 
He left room for that. 

659
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,040
But I do think he was ultimately
saying that she was going to 

660
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,520
reveal to him that we are just 
platonic best friends. 

661
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,400
I, I think you're right and I 
think that's why it's so funny 

662
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,000
and smart to call it like this 
crossover between Hereditary and

663
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,600
500 Days of Summer, because I 
think 500 Days of Summer was 

664
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,880
like ground breaking in that we 
grew up with like so many 

665
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,720
romantic comedies that were 
focused on like the, the idea of

666
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,600
he's just not that into you. 
Like this this woman who was 

667
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,880
pining over this man and like 
that, that was just like, so I 

668
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,240
guess it's 90s, early 2000s, mid
2000's. 

669
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,960
The 500 days of summer was so 
interesting because you know he 

670
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,400
doesn't get summer like. 
He gets autumn. 

671
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,000
Yeah, and it feels like a horror
movie of that, right? 

672
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,400
Like him, you know, when he is 
talking to, I think what is it 

673
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,800
like his little sister or his 
friend? 

674
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,160
And he's like devastated that 
this woman doesn't love him, 

675
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,200
right. 
Like it feels, I guess similar 

676
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,280
here. 
Like it's it's playing on that 

677
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,000
idea, although it was funny 
because, you know, obviously 

678
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,480
when you're watching that and he
she asked, do you like me? 

679
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,480
Because she's getting a sense 
and I think she like wants to 

680
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,120
have a conversation. 
And he says no after. 

681
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,880
Like this is apparently all he 
thinks about, all he talks about

682
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,160
to his friends, like he is a 
little obsessive and like maybe 

683
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:26,200
unhealthful, unhealthfully 
thinking about and like building

684
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,560
up this idea of her. 
And and so it is funny though, 

685
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:31,480
because you're. 
Like what the? 

686
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,640
Reaction is to be like, dude, 
you did mess that up because. 

687
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,240
Well, the wish. 
Is your one chance to tell her. 

688
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,120
Maybe this is a misreading on my
part. 

689
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,480
I keep saying demonic or demon 
but maybe the wish is a 

690
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,560
literalization? 
Like the wish itself becomes a 

691
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,720
possession so like she becomes 
his. 

692
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,800
Almost a literalization of his 
obsession for her, if that makes

693
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,880
sense. 
There's not like there's not 

694
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,760
like some kind of witch inside 
her body, I guess is the point 

695
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,600
that the spell that's overtaken 
her is his imagination of what 

696
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,920
he wanted from her, the way he 
was obsessed with what they 

697
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,160
could be and what he wanted from
her. 

698
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,360
And so his male dream gaze 
basically takes over, consumes 

699
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,200
her soul. 
And I keep calling it like 

700
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,560
demonic because I keep thinking 
about like conjuring or 

701
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,680
exorcist. 
Or whatever, like demon coded 

702
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,400
though, like you were saying, 
like the there's so many, you 

703
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,440
know, horror adjacent, like 
images of someone being 

704
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,240
possessed. 
It is like a possession. 

705
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,680
But there's not an alternate 
personality, I guess is what I'm

706
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,800
saying? 
Like the the Nikki. 

707
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,360
Well, besides the phone call 
where we hear Nikki screaming 

708
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,760
when he's like, do you want to 
talk to? 

709
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:42,760
Me. 
Well, that's the real life 

710
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:43,480
Nikki. 
Yeah. 

711
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,200
Right. 
So, but like there is like 

712
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:46,440
something that has taken over 
her. 

713
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,640
We just don't like completely. 
We sort. 

714
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,120
Of out of it because everything 
she says or answers when she's 

715
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,880
like no, no, no, no, no, like 
when she's doing things like. 

716
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,240
That she's. 
Crashing out she but she feels 

717
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:00,720
like it feels it feels like I'm 
watching Companion with Sophie 

718
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:02,320
Thatcher. 
Yes, I thought of that movie 

719
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,360
too. 
If that makes sense. 

720
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,920
Like I'm watching an AI 
malfunction and I think that's 

721
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,080
important because it's again, 
just she, the agency has been 

722
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,600
ripped and she her ceiling and 
her lows or just whatever his 

723
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,360
imagination was of her. 
So she becomes like a Stepford 

724
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,480
wife in that way, I guess. 
OK, yeah. 

725
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,520
So I mean, yeah, I thought a 
step for that's so funny. 

726
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,680
I thought a step for wives and 
companion too. 

727
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,640
And maybe it's you're right. 
It felt, I mean, she also kind 

728
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:27,880
of like this. 
Is going to be such an iconic 

729
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,920
horror movie. 
When I first saw her I also like

730
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,720
thought the actor is just like 
so beautiful but like. 

731
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,120
Yeah, she's gorgeous. 
But in a very like traditional 

732
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,680
like I guess like beauty 
standard way where she looks 

733
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,440
like AI. 
And so I also maybe was thinking

734
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,640
about it in in that way and 
she's also like moving very 

735
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,360
robotically. 
But I yeah, I mean. 

736
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,240
I mean there's one scene where 
they literally have her go in 

737
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:58,160
reverse where it's like very yes
in post production. 

738
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,920
Whatever they did in the. 
Edit Yeah, feels like a Stepford

739
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,560
Wives kind of thing, like 
malfunctioning or. 

740
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:07,480
That was sick. 
Like we, if we have, you know, 

741
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,240
the Nosebleed or something from 
Get Out 'cause I think that she 

742
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:14,880
did say in like a interview that
the no, no, no was, you know, 

743
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,600
from like Get Out. 
So I do think like that was. 

744
00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:21,880
That Betty Gabriel. 
Yeah, Betty Gabriel. 

745
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,080
Georgina. 
When yeah, she's talking to 

746
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:30,280
Chris, I think. 
So you could view it as a 

747
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:36,600
possession movie, but I think I 
think it's like very similar 

748
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,600
like I, I, but I think. 
You're very unique. 

749
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,600
You're saying you're making the 
distinction though that is like 

750
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,600
specifically like his wish. 
Over her. 

751
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,520
There's not some Emily Rose from
like the 1200s who is captured 

752
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,280
over her body, right? 
Do you know what I mean? 

753
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,080
Like it's. 
Like a demon spirit. 

754
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,800
Right. 
It's a patriarchal gaze that has

755
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,280
possessed her. 
So it's very specific. 

756
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,160
OK, let's get to the One Wish 
Willow. 

757
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,960
What do you think about the 
choice to give us horror 

758
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,640
iconography, which we love as 
being huge short appeal fans, 

759
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,040
John Carpenter fans like giving 
us the scissors from us, if you 

760
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,320
will. 
But like this red packaging of 

761
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,320
the One Wish Willow, this little
half wand, this little stick 

762
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,560
that has a sound to it that you 
break and you make your wish to.

763
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,920
What do you think about that 
imaginative choice in here to 

764
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,560
not overuse it? 
Did they did they underplay it? 

765
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,520
Did they overplay it? 
What do you think about that 

766
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,560
choice or that creation? 
I think that it I thought it was

767
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,000
great, like the the music that 
the box plays kind of like a 

768
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,840
music box, which is another big 
horror trope. 

769
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,480
I thought it was like, it is 
really iconic, like it sticks to

770
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,480
my mind. 
I also like how when he went to 

771
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,120
the shop, like I like having the
shop that he goes to and. 

772
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:58,640
And everybody so nonchalant 
about it. 

773
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,320
It's like, yeah, it works. 
Please don't come back. 

774
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,280
My favorite whole thing. 
It's like the the shop kind of 

775
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,320
feels like scary. 
Have you ever been to like a 

776
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,400
Crystal shop? 
You know, I really don't fuck 

777
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,960
with those places. 
Well. 

778
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,640
I in some like the spiritual 
way, I just don't they. 

779
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,200
Always. 
Yeah, well, they seem, they feel

780
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,200
scary to me at least. 
They're like dimly lit. 

781
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,320
I've only been to one. 
There was one that when I was 

782
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,080
like a kid, there was like a 
downtown, historic downtown area

783
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,040
where that I live nearby. 
And it was like the witch store.

784
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,400
And that's like, I think it was 
called like something like that.

785
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,760
And it was like dimly lit. 
There were like crystals and 

786
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,000
shit everywhere. 
And I always felt like scared 

787
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,920
going in there. 
Again, another Gen. 

788
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,960
Z element to this movie that'll 
make it feel like of an era. 

789
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,960
Especially like she gifts him 
that like Tiger's eye stone. 

790
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,280
Or something. 
Like so she like obviously like 

791
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,920
is interested in crystals and 
shit, but anyway, but I love how

792
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,000
they like broke through this 
idea of like he's going to get 

793
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,920
her a gift that actually 
seemingly thoughtful at the 

794
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,960
beginning because she just lost 
it over the phone. 

795
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,200
And then the woman is like on 
her has like a headphone in like

796
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,120
an Airpod in is talking to 
someone and it's kind of like a 

797
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:21,160
scary social interaction where 
he's like, what, like are you 

798
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,600
talking to me? 
And then and then later on when 

799
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,120
he like I, I just thought it 
felt felt iconic, which is I 

800
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,840
think, you know, a positive 
thing towards this movie. 

801
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,760
It's so economical you never see
the shop. 

802
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,200
Of just like looking at when he 
first sees the one wish Willow 

803
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,280
it felt like an icon like I 
thought of like big for example 

804
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,280
when. 
The Tom Hanks movie. 

805
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,400
Yeah, when the kid sees the like
the wish box, I was like, oh, 

806
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,000
this feels like, I don't know, 
it felt interesting. 

807
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,480
And then I, but I loved how it 
wasn't, it was like still 

808
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,840
grounded like you're saying 
later when the guy was there and

809
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,080
he's like, just like doing 
inventory at the, the front desk

810
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,960
or the the cash register and 
he's like, dude, just don't come

811
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,840
in here with that energy. 
You know what I mean? 

812
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:05,520
You're. 
Bringing down the bottle. 

813
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,640
He has like blood all over him. 
He's like whatever, just like 

814
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,520
don't come in here with that 
energy. 

815
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,520
And he also is like fucking with
him and ends up like saying 

816
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:13,800
yeah, we do still have them in 
stock. 

817
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,080
There's like 2 of them left. 
And I like when he's like. 

818
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,920
I was really you. 
Could get a friend to make a 

819
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,120
wish for you and then they start
kind of like hazing out his 

820
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,360
audio and he's like, or you 
could just kill yourself. 

821
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,200
That'd actually be really easy. 
Yeah, it was. 

822
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,680
Really. 
Fun. 

823
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:29,560
Wait, what was your question 
before? 

824
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,240
Because I I guess like had a 
response. 

825
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:33,920
Well, you obviously loved it the
way I did as a as the 

826
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,960
imagination around the one wish 
Willow. 

827
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,760
Obviously it's very much a trope
about the cursed object and what

828
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,280
it will do to its user. 
That is certainly a thing across

829
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,720
different genres of 
storytelling, like in the 

830
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,200
history of storytelling. 
But what do you think about the 

831
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,240
the use of it? 
Like do you think that they were

832
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:52,640
almost like satirizing the 
object? 

833
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,200
Because like that's something in
like talk to me with a hand if 

834
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,840
you remember, or there was a 
whistle movie that came out like

835
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,800
literally in the past few weeks.
I mean, there's also just 

836
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,120
weapons, the snapping stick. 
Exactly. 

837
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,840
Yes, yes, good point. 
But this movie felt like it was 

838
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,560
kind of like having some fun 
with that idea because the stick

839
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,240
doesn't really fucking matter to
the to the point where he 

840
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:14,600
there's a number on and he calls
it. 

841
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,960
And like the whoever operates it
from hell is just like, yeah, I 

842
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,440
can like let you hear what's 
going on inside that body of the

843
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,800
person and you hear the 
screaming, which is terrifying. 

844
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,840
But just the way that that's 
done in such a deadpan Gen. 

845
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,320
Z humor, I thought was really 
effective. 

846
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,640
But it felt like it was poking 
fun at the very idea of a cursed

847
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,800
object. 
Yeah, I I liked how it was used 

848
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,400
in a like, unserious way like 
you're talking about. 

849
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:39,960
Yeah, it didn't feel like it 
was. 

850
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,440
Yeah. 
Like, like this was going to be 

851
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,360
this iconic that it was like, 
yeah, it was like making it like

852
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,560
a joke, sort of. 
Yeah. 

853
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,840
I thought it was a really like 
interestingly used. 

854
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,680
Yeah, I just like they didn't 
take itself too seriously. 

855
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,640
Movies like this are like, well,
there has to be this great 

856
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,360
mythology behind all this. 
And maybe I just sound like 

857
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,200
frustrated with the horror genre
right now, but I do think we're 

858
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,920
hitting like a post elevated 
horror space, especially with 

859
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,400
the new scary movie coming out 
soon. 

860
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,800
I do think we're going to enter 
into a new spear of filmmaking, 

861
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,680
an ecosystem of filmmaking that 
is going to probably lean in 

862
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,360
more of like a Your Ghost 
direction where it is sort of 

863
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,240
dread inducing and absurd. 
Like a Lanthimos. 

864
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,120
Even though he doesn't make 
horror movies, they feel sort of

865
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,120
like horror movies sometimes, 
which I think is like an 

866
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,200
interesting direction for the 
genre to go in. 

867
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,040
Yeah, I mean, well, like his 
first movie, Dog Tooth 

868
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,920
definitely feels like that. 
Yeah, OK, so he wishes for Nikki

869
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,160
to love him more than anything 
else. 

870
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,200
And this is where it sort of 
turns into an evil 500 Days of 

871
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,400
Summer, which is awesome. 
It's a great pitch for a movie. 

872
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,160
And that's where we can get more
into indie. 

873
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:51,480
Never Eddie's performance here, 
which we've already talked a 

874
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,200
little bit about, but I want to 
get more into like just the best

875
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,120
performances to me personally 
for scream Queens or women in 

876
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,400
film. 
And in particular, how she 

877
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,840
stacks up with this spectrum of 
emotions that she's displaying 

878
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:11,560
in this movie where she has this
very impossible role or demand 

879
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,080
or ask here where she has to be 
this romantic dream version of 

880
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,360
herself in the 1st 20 minutes. 
She then has to become the sort 

881
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,360
of like terrified version of 
Nicki buried underneath that 

882
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,200
only comes out sometimes. 
And then she has to be the 

883
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,560
possessed version who sort of 
malfunctions from time to time. 

884
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:35,880
And so she's doing all of that 
all at once in like a such. 

885
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,240
A. 
Powerful way that there wasn't 1

886
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,200
scene where I was like that was 
too much. 

887
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,120
Which is such a credit to her. 
Like I can't I can't even think 

888
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,040
of 1 moment where I was like she
out. 

889
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,960
She did a little too much there.
Like Naomi Scott. 

890
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,840
I think it's her name from the 
Smile movies. 

891
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,120
She's really good or Smile too. 
Do you remember that movie? 

892
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,360
Kevin Bacon's daughter. 
Yes, Kevin Bacon's daughter. 

893
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:58,600
Isn't that who that is? 
I think so. 

894
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,880
Naomi Scott. 
No, wait, no, Kevin's bacon. 

895
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,760
Kevin Bacon's daughter's from 
Smile one she's. 

896
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,040
Very oh sorry, Smile 2. 
Yeah, Naomi Scott. 

897
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,440
I think it's her name. 
She's really good in Smile Two. 

898
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,120
I'm forgetting. 
This is what she looks like. 

899
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,160
She, I think you look Emma 
Chamberlain for some reason. 

900
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:17,880
OK, She kind of looks like Ember
Chamberlain. 

901
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:19,800
She does. 
Interesting. 

902
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,560
Yeah, no, I think they they were
both good. 

903
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:24,160
Well, there were moments, I 
guess is what I'm saying, in 

904
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,360
those movies where it's like 
your role is just to scream at 

905
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,040
things. 
There's not a lot of range you 

906
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,960
can show. 
But they were really good as a 

907
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,280
recent performance I can think 
of. 

908
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,960
But here's my list, assuming you
agree that we shouldn't be 

909
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,760
having this conversation. 
Yeah, I like, I like this. 

910
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,320
I'm ready. 
So Mia Farrow, Obviously, 

911
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,600
Rosemary's Baby, Jodie Foster, 
Silence of the Lambs, Toni 

912
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:49,720
Collette, Hereditary, Florence 
Pugh, Midsummer, Lupita Noongo 

913
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,400
and Us, Elisabeth Moss and The 
Invisible Man. 

914
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:54,600
Which is. 
Underrated. 

915
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,000
Underrated. 
I was just going to say yeah. 

916
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:03,520
And Mia Goth in Pearl, a movie I
don't love but a performance 

917
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,520
that is like, unreal. 
And I think Micah Monroe. 

918
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,120
She's great. 
Yes, she's. 

919
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:13,440
As follows Claudio Kuno's 
watcher yes yeah I mean I feel 

920
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,920
like my only hesitation for 
saying like yeah she is like 

921
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:21,600
among these scream Queens and I 
I don't know how far we go back 

922
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,960
like do we go Jamie Lee Curtis 
like do we talk about Nancy from

923
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,800
Nightmare on Elm Street I. 
Guess you're right, yeah. 

924
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,480
You know, because Scream Queen 
also, like when I think of that,

925
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,720
I think of like slashers more. 
So that's true. 

926
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,560
But I understand you're being 
like more encompassing of like 

927
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,800
here are roles where 
specifically the woman is at 

928
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,520
the, like, center of the movie, 
almost right, where it seems 

929
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,120
like Jamie Lee Curtis is kind of
like being chased by Michael or 

930
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,560
like, yeah, So I mean. 
Like if Alien counted, obviously

931
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,280
Sigourney Weaver would be #1 
here for me. 

932
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,720
So yeah. 
So comment any scream Queens 

933
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:04,960
that we left out, I guess below.
And the only reason, though, 

934
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,120
that I think I'm hesitant to say
like, well, I think her 

935
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,400
performance is certainly 
something that is like among the

936
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,880
people you listed. 
You're right that it is a a 

937
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,840
really like difficult balance. 
I'm sure to like not overdo it 

938
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,760
and still be scary kind of 
muted, feeling like she's 

939
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,600
trapped but still doing an 
exaggerated performance because 

940
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,640
that's what it like calls for 
and her being like possessed. 

941
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:36,080
The only thing is though, that 
this movie doesn't feel. 

942
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,600
I think this is probably why I 
walked out being like more 3 1/2

943
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,800
stars than like really being 
high on it is. 

944
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,040
Ultimately the movie is about 
like bear, which is fine. 

945
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,600
Like I think it's interesting in
that aspect for all the reasons 

946
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,440
we've already talked about and 
like this idea of like modern 

947
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,280
masculinity and heterosexual 
monogamy and like this this 

948
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,080
paradox. 
Like I think it's interesting 

949
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,680
for all those reasons and fine 
to like focus on on that and 

950
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,800
have the the premise of like her
being possessed. 

951
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:08,320
But ultimately, like the movie 
isn't like about her in the way 

952
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,800
that, yeah, like other 
possession movies aren't about 

953
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,760
her, right. 
And so, yeah, like, I, I think 

954
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,440
it's really interesting. 
I was just thinking about, I've 

955
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,600
talked about this on the pod 
before when we've talked about 

956
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,680
horror movies. 
But like, Carol Clover has a a 

957
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,120
book on horror movies and she 
talks about like, possession 

958
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:40,360
plots and like how women usually
go from like and like ABA, like 

959
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,920
they basically just get 
possessed and then return to 

960
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:43,880
normal. 
Yes. 

961
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,600
But really, the possession 
movies. 

962
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:47,720
Yeah. 
Like The Conjuring. 

963
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:50,200
Exactly. 
Or you could think of like The 

964
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:51,840
Exorcist. 
But really the movie is about 

965
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,000
like the man being transformed 
at the end of it. 

966
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,280
Like you could think of The 
Exorcist. 

967
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:57,760
What Father? 
What's his name? 

968
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,000
Father. 
Father. 

969
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,560
Father, Father. 
Father Rocky. 

970
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:06,640
Father Sylvester Stallone. 
The Father if you've. 

971
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,840
Seen The Exorcist recently? 
You understand that joke? 

972
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,520
Wait, what? 
The Father in The Exorcist, the 

973
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,200
priest who is like having a 
crisis of faith. 

974
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Is like boxing and is like side.

975
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,640
Timing. 
Literally looks like Sylvester 

976
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,600
Stallone from the first Rocky. 
That also came out. 

977
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,200
Around the same time as The 
Exorcist. 

978
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,960
Anyway, I understood what you 
were saying, but I just didn't. 

979
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,400
I was like, wait, was was 
Stallone like in a recent 

980
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,200
Exorcist movie? 
OK regardless, sorry. 

981
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,920
Usually like the possession 
movies. 

982
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,160
Carol Clover talks about how 
like the possession movies are 

983
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:40,280
usually ultimately about a man's
transformation, like father X 

984
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,640
whatever in in exorcist or right
like thinking about like the 

985
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,640
like men in in like conjuring 
but I. 

986
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,400
Even though Bathsheba was 
victimized by the Salem Witch 

987
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:53,360
Trials. 
That's true. 

988
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,760
Or actually in that movie, I 
guess it's more conservative 

989
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,120
leaning. 
So they were actually right to 

990
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,160
have killed Bathsheba because 
she was a witch. 

991
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,160
She was like a demon. 
Remember We talked about how 

992
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,880
sexist? 
That movie was, that was yeah. 

993
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,400
And I don't, I don't know if 
like The Conjuring is like 

994
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,560
totally that cause the I've, 
I've always forget. 

995
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:11,680
That's like the beauty of that 
movie. 

996
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,280
It's like I've watched it so 
many times 'cause I kind of 

997
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,200
forget the ending and like the 
dad is kind of like, sort of 

998
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,200
like absent. 
So he doesn't really have a 

999
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,800
total transformation at the end.
But regardless like she uses 

1000
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,440
other possession movies like. 
Pictures of our family fell down

1001
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,040
the stairs. 
I guess I'll go on this truck. 

1002
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,600
Because I'll just leave. 
But regardless, this movie was 

1003
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,760
interesting. 
I was thinking about it like in 

1004
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,880
terms of like does bear get 
transformed through this like 

1005
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,600
possession right, because she 
does follow the ABA. 

1006
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:48,160
She follows the like normal 
possessed back to normal and he 

1007
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,160
then like isn't transformed at 
the end because he like dies at 

1008
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:56,240
the end. 
He like takes pills, but I was I

1009
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:58,040
was just like going through 
through this in my mind. 

1010
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,880
I was like, what is the movie 
saying at the end ultimately, 

1011
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:05,560
like it's not ultimately about 
her, though I guess it's like 

1012
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:11,160
her ultimately like her effect 
or the idea of his wish that 

1013
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,600
effect on this person and both 
of them. 

1014
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,600
I guess anyway, I was just like 
thinking about that because I, 

1015
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,520
I, I think her performance is 
great in the possession portion.

1016
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,960
I also though didn't leave like 
I left thinking about her 

1017
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,360
performance, but not thinking 
about her as like entering a 

1018
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,920
scream queen category. 
Does that make sense? 

1019
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:39,680
Just because in my mind I'm 
thinking of like people like 

1020
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,720
Elizabeth Moss, like Lupita 
Nuongo, although Lupita Nuongo 

1021
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:48,040
isn't a scream queen like 
totally in in terms of like the.

1022
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,760
1/2 of her might be. 
Yeah, one yeah, but I was I'm 

1023
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,600
also saying like that that 
specific like movie has like an 

1024
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,200
amazing like villain performance
that I'm thinking of more, but 

1025
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,560
still I I think she does like. 
Yes, Scream Queen wasn't the 

1026
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,080
best way to have the exercise. 
I guess I was mostly asking what

1027
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,960
are the best like physically and
emotionally demanding 

1028
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:11,680
performances in the history of 
horror cinema that usually are 

1029
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,120
afforded to women in this genre 
because they're usually the 

1030
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,760
target of a killer in some kind 
of way or demon in this 

1031
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,520
conversation. 
And I would say Lapita Nuongo's 

1032
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,800
performance is the most recent 
one where I was like, that's an 

1033
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,720
all timer. 
And that's why this one just 

1034
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:28,880
really reminds me of that 
performance, because there's 

1035
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,480
only a few that have hit this 
high for me where the movie ends

1036
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,000
up being five stars or 4 1/2 or 
whatever. 

1037
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,840
And also like the just I guess, 
like impressive aspect of doing 

1038
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,400
that dual performance. 
Yes, but also, but I get your 

1039
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,240
hesitancy because of this movie 
not really being about her, but 

1040
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,760
to not to push back, but maybe 
to just like provide like where 

1041
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,040
my brain was at while walking 
out of theater. 

1042
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,080
I was like, I watched a movie 
where it was about this man's 

1043
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,760
cautionary tale Bear. 
It's a cautionary tale about his

1044
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,560
own, sort of like ignorance or 
narcissism, his obsession, 

1045
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,200
unwilling to see his own 
obsession. 

1046
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:06,560
Unexamined. 
Yeah, obsession. 

1047
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:10,920
And then it was about a woman's 
tragedy, but it was more of like

1048
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:16,080
this monolithic, like 25 year 
old modern woman in dating and 

1049
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,320
friendships tragedy. 
It was like the tragedy of what 

1050
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,880
it's like to be a woman in the 
modern world. 

1051
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,120
Well, it's like the phenomenon 
of like, you know, you'll hear 

1052
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:27,640
people often say like now, which
is recent of like, unfortunately

1053
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,800
I'm straight like, have you ever
heard a woman say that? 

1054
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,680
And like, that's so interesting 
to me. 

1055
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:39,960
Like I also study dating, but 
but that is always interesting 

1056
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,400
to me because it's like that. 
You're right, this movie is. 

1057
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,000
Like a oh people are not going 
to know what the fuck that 

1058
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,360
means. 
You have to explain what that 

1059
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,280
means by studying dating. 
Sorry I'm getting my PHDI 

1060
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,080
actually research like dating. 
Meaning you talk to a lot of 

1061
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,920
people who are trying to date 
people. 

1062
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:57,840
Yeah, Well, and they say things 
like. 

1063
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,360
That yeah, I, well, really, I'm 
not researching dating. 

1064
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,200
I research gender and dating is 
just like the the case that I'm 

1065
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:05,920
looking at. 
Yeah. 

1066
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,760
And I, and you're saying a lot 
of women or men have mentioned 

1067
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,360
this like unfortunately I am 
straight and so my options are 

1068
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,120
limited or they are unfortunate.
Like, I mean, they haven't, like

1069
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:16,960
they struggle. 
Yeah. 

1070
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,560
Not everyone has like, said 
something like that, but they're

1071
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,720
like, I've seen it also like 
online too. 

1072
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,320
Like, I've seen a lot of people 
just, like, talk about that when

1073
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:29,880
they're talking about like, 
their sexuality. 

1074
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,480
I know what you mean, but yeah, 
I don't think I think 

1075
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,600
importantly this movie. 
I think in another writer's 

1076
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,360
hands it would have been like 
Bear sort of the hero because he

1077
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,760
ends up committing suicide and 
letting Nikki out. 

1078
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,440
But I think importantly, the 
movie ends with her waking up 

1079
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,600
screaming and all of her friends
around her are dead. 

1080
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,240
Sarah is like brutalized naked 
in the next room. 

1081
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,640
Her guy, the guy she was in a 
sort of like quasi relationship 

1082
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,280
with, we're hooking up with, was
shot in the face. 

1083
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,040
And then Bear is like dying in 
front of her, dead in front of 

1084
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,400
her. 
And she sort of, I assumed, 

1085
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,280
passively lived through all that
in the mind of this demon or 

1086
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,360
possession or whatever. 
So she sort of probably knew 

1087
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,400
about most of it, I guess. 
I don't know though. 

1088
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,160
I mean like she like wakes up 
from it. 

1089
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,800
And kind of look shocked by her 
surroundings. 

1090
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,040
So maybe she's only sort of 
conscious sometimes. 

1091
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,800
I guess my question for you, 
when talking about the end of 

1092
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,320
this movie, we skipped a lot, 
but that's OK, is did you note 

1093
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,040
how the audience, half our 
audience laughed at her 

1094
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,520
screaming because of the 
absurdity of it? 

1095
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,440
And also, did you notice how the
half of our audience was like 

1096
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,960
dead silent? 
And not because I don't think 

1097
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,960
they disliked it, but because 
maybe they were experiencing the

1098
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,360
end of the movie very 
differently, because then the 

1099
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,160
movie kind of plays with a song.
Laughing at it. 

1100
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,480
Oh, I forgot about the song. 
There's like music playing. 

1101
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:59,840
She's screaming at the this the 
insanity of what just happened 

1102
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,760
at the end of this movie. 
It's a cathartic moment. 

1103
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,080
It's the rhythm and release that
Zach Crager and Jordan Peele 

1104
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,480
talk about so much, and this 
filmmaker who also came from 

1105
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,480
comedy as well, Curry Barker, 
that it's a very similar trick 

1106
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,360
to manipulate the audience into 
a laugh that it is into. 

1107
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,240
A scare relief moment at the 
end. 

1108
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,120
Yeah, there's a good, there's a 
cathartic experience in both 

1109
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:22,200
comedies and horror, and this 
moment had both of those 

1110
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,760
feelings. 
But I just thought it was 

1111
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,880
interesting to hear a sort of a 
Rorschach test the audience and 

1112
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,320
their instant reaction to the 
end, because I got really like, 

1113
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,960
sad. 
And that's what made me think 

1114
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,800
about the movie as five stars 
for me, because I was watching 

1115
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,720
the whole thing is like a sort 
of heightened absurd, you know, 

1116
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,400
Cure meets Hereditary meets 500 
Days of Summer. 

1117
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,200
And then the movie was like, oh,
my God, this was a fucking 

1118
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,760
nightmare for this, this woman 
who we never really got to spend

1119
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,680
time with, but it felt like we 
did at the same time. 

1120
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:53,920
And I was, but I was also 
covering my face for like 30 

1121
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,080
minutes of the movie when she 
was like on screen when she had 

1122
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:57,880
like the vase of flowers in 
front of her face. 

1123
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,520
When she kind of like. 
Knelt, kneeled over next to him.

1124
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,920
Yeah, I like there are moments 
like that where I was like I 

1125
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,720
didn't get to always see where 
Nikki was. 

1126
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:09,840
Yes. 
There are a few things I 

1127
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,360
definitely want to talk about 
though before we end our 

1128
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,320
conversation. 
But I think in terms of like the

1129
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,760
laughing at the end, like 
people's laughing reaction to 

1130
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,040
her screaming, I think they were
just like, laughing at the like 

1131
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,800
absurdity of like waking up. 
Yeah. 

1132
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,880
To all of this like this 
disgusting ass like house that 

1133
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,120
is like a shrine. 
Like I think at one point you 

1134
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,800
leaned over to me like it's like
the Helga, like Hey Arnold 

1135
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,120
shrine and there like come to 
life and just like all of her 

1136
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,160
best friends, like being dead. 
Like I just it feels like that 

1137
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:44,680
end, like you're talking about 
that people who are in comedy 

1138
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,560
and then direct horror, like a a
crager, like appeal, right, like

1139
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,960
are able to to do at the end 
where there is like a little bit

1140
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,440
of a humor to an absurdity. 
So I I think when people were 

1141
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,400
laughing at it, they were doing 
it for that reason. 

1142
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,960
I mean, I guess they could be 
like laughing, but I don't. 

1143
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,360
I didn't get that that that 
vibe. 

1144
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,560
Yeah. 
Oh, well, yeah, I guess I don't 

1145
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:06,680
know. 
I guess it depends. 

1146
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,560
Like when you hear men laugh at 
like watching a woman be like 

1147
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,440
going through this experience 
and being like, this is so 

1148
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,000
fucked up, you know what I mean?
Like then I kind of get worried.

1149
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,200
But like, again, that's not, I'm
not going to discredit this 

1150
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,600
movie and what it's doing 
because there's like a potential

1151
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,960
bad media literacy thing going 
on here, but. 

1152
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,560
But I mean, no, I mean it's 
always fair to question the 

1153
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,560
laugh. 
I it's definitely like something

1154
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:34,160
that we often talk about for 
horror movies, like they're, it 

1155
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,720
kind of like almost invites 
laugh for like certain audiences

1156
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,440
who are like viewing it in a 
more exploitative way. 

1157
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,000
Like they're viewing it for the 
torture porn aspect of it. 

1158
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,840
But which like, I think also 
there were moments like seeing 

1159
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,040
the friend that she brought back
to the house who was like 

1160
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:57,440
faceless and like mutilated, but
and like naked sitting in this 

1161
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,400
chair. 
That also felt like there were 

1162
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,080
moments of the film that felt 
like just like. 

1163
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,960
Like a man made it. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1164
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,760
Like just still. 
Hearts of Bear made the movie. 

1165
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,920
Still torture porn adjacent, 
like still. 

1166
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:14,520
Yeah. 
Anyway, so. 

1167
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:17,720
So yeah. 
But I think that what I wanted 

1168
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,240
to talk about before we left 
were the certain things that I 

1169
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:27,200
did think we're good about, like
the the interesting commentary 

1170
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:32,600
on monogamy being horror. 
I think like 1 There are certain

1171
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:38,600
movies that do a really good job
and I'm like blinking on them, 

1172
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:44,560
but that make feeling like 
you're living in a suburban 

1173
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:49,760
home, like kind of horrific, 
like you're trapped in a space, 

1174
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,320
you know? 
And this movie did that really 

1175
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:54,880
well. 
I. 

1176
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,440
Saw the TV glow. 
I was very good about that. 

1177
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,080
I was thinking like, I've like 
said this before, but like 

1178
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,080
Gasper, no ways like Vortex, but
that's like age that's more so 

1179
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,240
like aging and feeling like 
you're like trapped in your 

1180
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,440
home. 
Yeah, but Scream is about this. 

1181
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,560
It's a satire and suburban. 
Yeah, but I, but I mean like 

1182
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,280
specifically like making it feel
like there's this like, you 

1183
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,200
know, a lot of horror movies do 
this in terms of making the 

1184
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,840
suburban into horror. 
But I mean like specifically 

1185
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:29,880
like making the interior like 
into the Helga Shrine, like into

1186
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,760
like basically it becomes like 
more and more like dark and you 

1187
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,440
feel trapped in this space. 
And I think that was like, yeah,

1188
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,280
I feel like that was an 
interesting thing to do with 

1189
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,400
monogamy. 
And it was successful to do that

1190
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:46,440
where it felt like it was the 
world was like closing in on 

1191
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,160
Bear and Nicky basically, 
because they were like on this 

1192
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,640
one track. 
And and and basically it was 

1193
01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:00,520
like centered around the idea of
her doing things that like, we 

1194
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:04,200
often hear about, like, to the 
credit of the movie as being 

1195
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,680
like romantic, right? 
I'm like her being like, I 

1196
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,080
can't, you know, wait for you to
get home, essentially. 

1197
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,160
But like literalizing that where
she just doesn't move and like 

1198
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:14,480
like. 
It's good writing. 

1199
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,800
Goes to the bathroom on the 
floor and like there's all this 

1200
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:21,920
like abject shit around like her
just like standing in one place 

1201
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,160
like so so there's that. 
There's also you brought up like

1202
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,880
the idea of her that they're 
watching a movie in the first 

1203
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,760
couple days. 
I think right that she is 

1204
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,720
possessed and. 
They play like it's not. 

1205
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,000
A hill The first few days of 
their relationship, they're 

1206
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,120
making pancakes together, 
they're watching movies, she's 

1207
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:38,360
watching him. 
Exactly. 

1208
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,840
They do the kind of romantic 
comedy montage right of them, 

1209
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,280
like falling in love, where 
she's like turning to him while 

1210
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,040
they're watching a movie and he 
keeps turning her head back to 

1211
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,920
the screen and she's turning to 
him and. 

1212
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,800
They're having sex and she's 
like, very clearly like, like 

1213
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,680
faking these, like, loud, like, 
screams. 

1214
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,680
Yes, yeah, that was well done 
too. 

1215
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,440
Yeah. 
So like I think there are a lot 

1216
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,800
of like, just like things that 
were smart, like smartly 

1217
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,080
observed. 
And then like, let's literalize 

1218
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,680
like, why is that romantic? 
You know what I mean? 

1219
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,040
Like, and, and, and then that 
adds to this idea of like kind 

1220
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:15,640
of this feeling of like 
suffocation, but also at the 

1221
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,120
again, like she's possessed. 
But in terms of the metaphor, 

1222
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:24,680
like it's at the they're feeling
suffocated because they are in a

1223
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,240
relationship where it's like 
almost considered like cute to 

1224
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,840
be jealous or possessive of 
someone. 

1225
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,280
That's what it's playing with, 
right? 

1226
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,120
This idea that he would have 
loved before if Nikki was 

1227
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,440
jealous of Sarah because Sarah 
likes him, but now it's like 

1228
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,760
turned into like something that 
is like physically violent, 

1229
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,200
right, Instead of just like 
symbolically violent. 

1230
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,640
And so like I thought like the 
movie was doing interesting 

1231
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:52,880
things with that. 
Ultimately though, I just felt 

1232
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:58,280
like, I don't know, I think to 
my like original relationship to

1233
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:03,160
the dread inducing movies. 
The tone was just like, so like 

1234
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,840
overly present for me, even 
though there were a lot of like 

1235
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,960
funny moments and like scary 
moments too that felt, you know,

1236
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,440
when her, like, face was 
changing when she was standing 

1237
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,280
in the corner. 
Yeah, what was that? 

1238
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,640
That's what I thought she was 
like, possessed by this like 

1239
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,080
demon thing. 
Did they do something? 

1240
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,200
In post Or was that her doing 
something with her face? 

1241
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,200
No, I think it was post. 
It looked post right because it 

1242
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:25,600
looked like her face was 
morphing. 

1243
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:27,080
Yeah, it did look. 
Like that in the dark, for 

1244
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,920
people who don't know what I'm 
talking about, it was when she's

1245
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,560
like, oh, and again, like 
watching him sleep, like that's 

1246
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,120
like, but. 
When she starts crying and she's

1247
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,440
like, I don't like my dreams. 
Oh yeah, I. 

1248
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,480
That that was the only moment in
the movie I got a little 

1249
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:44,000
emotional. 
I didn't get teary eyed or 

1250
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,920
anything, but I got like which I
I typically do in in movies that

1251
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,720
play with my emotions in this 
way, But I did get emotional 

1252
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:57,200
like in a very just if, if I 
felt very uncomfortable, very 

1253
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,520
uncomfortable. 
Yeah, the movie was I, and I 

1254
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:04,400
think it was successful, like in
that way of exploring monogamy. 

1255
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,480
Like in that way. 
Apparently violent. 

1256
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:11,320
The like the like healthy 
masculine obsession in that way,

1257
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,320
like so, but ultimately like I 
just I still feel the same about

1258
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,160
it. 
Again, it's like very 

1259
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,520
interesting to talk about 
because it because it was like 

1260
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,920
considered right. 
But at the same time, like for 

1261
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,840
me as an experience with a 
movie, it's just not at the top 

1262
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,920
of like what I enjoy. 
I enjoy a cult movie. 

1263
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,120
I hear you. 
I guess I was just really 

1264
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,560
impressed by turning the sad boy
that so many movies romanticize 

1265
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:44,480
into somebody who is basically 
like the anti consent demon 

1266
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,600
himself. 
Like he just really doesn't. 

1267
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,880
He feels like he deserves 
somebody who will. 

1268
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,560
What's so bad about? 
Yeah, unconditionally. 

1269
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:52,800
Want to be with him at any 
second? 

1270
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:54,480
Right. 
He's on a spectrum from Brad to 

1271
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:55,680
Kyle. 
Like, yeah. 

1272
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,200
For sure, And I'm just like 
impressed by that, that choice 

1273
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,160
to make that decision. 
Is it like opportunistic, 

1274
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,880
considering how clearly 
everybody's so dumb with the sad

1275
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:07,480
boy online? 
Sure, but I mean, nobody else 

1276
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,240
fucking did it. 
So like I think, or at least I 

1277
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:10,600
haven't seen a movie do it this 
well. 

1278
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:14,840
So yeah, very, very, very 
impressed by that it. 

1279
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:18,720
Was like a modern like Stepford 
Wives. 

1280
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,279
Yeah, by by. 
Yeah, I guess from, I don't know

1281
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:24,920
who separate, who wrote separate
wives, but yeah. 

1282
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,399
But I don't know if it was a man
or a woman, but you can 

1283
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:28,880
certainly feel like this was 
written by a man. 

1284
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:31,359
OK. 
Anything else from the movie? 

1285
01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:33,359
Did we miss anything else? 
The party scene, that was very 

1286
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:35,439
talk TO me. 
The. 

1287
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,760
Work climate at the phone place.
Something we didn't mention is 

1288
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:40,359
they're like 20 year olds. 
They're. 

1289
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:41,680
Yeah. 
I was. 

1290
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:43,680
I didn't know their age. 
Because they kept talking about 

1291
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,600
high school and I thought maybe 
they were all like right out of 

1292
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,800
high school and then like still 
essentially like living at home.

1293
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:56,800
But it was confusing because the
like, Bear got a house from his 

1294
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,200
grandmother, right? 
Which I mean, I guess I could 

1295
01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:02,960
happen like right out of. 
I thought they they just 

1296
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:04,920
graduated college. 
That's what I thought. 

1297
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:07,640
They were looking for a job and 
they were at that place in the 

1298
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,560
meantime. 
Oh, and then the friend who? 

1299
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,000
The other friend, Sarah. 
She was applying to colleges. 

1300
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:16,640
Yeah. 
OK, so they just out of high 

1301
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,359
school? 
I don't know. 

1302
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:21,040
Well, I, I know I had thought 
maybe like they were taking like

1303
01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:23,760
there it was a year out or 
something. 

1304
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:24,880
Sure. 
A gap year, yeah. 

1305
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:27,920
Oh, you mean? 
They're a year out. 

1306
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:29,920
Well, but I don't. 
But I also don't know because 

1307
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,319
they all, like, lived in their 
own apartment. 

1308
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:33,880
Yeah. 
And like, would they be able to,

1309
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,319
you're out of high school to be 
able to afford their own 

1310
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:39,720
apartment? 
And it didn't seem like they 

1311
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,000
like, it seemed like they were 
living in like pretty nice 

1312
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,279
places, like. 
I just like that we don't know. 

1313
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:47,720
Like, wait, the yeah, wait, the 
the guy who's sleeping with 

1314
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:49,359
Nikki, which we didn't talk 
about that reveal. 

1315
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:51,240
He's in the basement of his 
parents house. 

1316
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:56,720
Oh, I thought he was in like, I 
thought that was like a sort of 

1317
01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:00,320
like open floor plan single 
family home. 

1318
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:02,600
OK. 
So this movie's impressive 

1319
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,640
because it is doing this thing 
where it's like these are, it's 

1320
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,000
the euphoria thing. 
These are 16 to 30 year olds. 

1321
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:10,400
This is they. 
Apply to. 

1322
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,320
Everybody playing a high school.
Yeah, yeah. 

1323
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,880
But it kind of works in this 
case because it is commenting on

1324
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,080
a very particular 30 and under 
relationship mold. 

1325
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,720
So it works, Yeah. 
Anything else? 

1326
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,920
I think that's it. 
I mean, we, we did talk about 

1327
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,080
the the. 
Reveal of the boyfriend or 

1328
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:32,480
whatever the guy she's hooking 
up with. 

1329
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:36,200
Yeah, we did talk about the 
party scene, but like, in 

1330
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:41,280
particular when she's reading 
out that monologue, she was very

1331
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,880
scary and like. 
I want to. 

1332
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,680
You were saying like she changed
voices in a way that didn't feel

1333
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,320
like over the top. 
Several, yeah, several times I'd

1334
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:51,600
want to re listen to his 
monologue to the waitress at the

1335
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:53,800
beginning of the movie. 
And I want to re listen to her 

1336
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,120
monologue to in that party 
scene. 

1337
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:59,040
Because I bet they spell out the
thesis of the film pretty well 

1338
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:03,680
about his view of romance being 
about obsession and her view of 

1339
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:05,400
romance being more about 
yearning. 

1340
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,040
I think that is like what they 
were trying to speak to. 

1341
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:09,320
But maybe I. 
Could be wrong. 

1342
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,760
I mean I think they did a good 
job at the opening, at least 

1343
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:15,720
from what I remember of his like
speech to her was like you were 

1344
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,760
always there. 
For me, it was like playing on 

1345
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:24,000
the idea of like, when you ask 
like a man in a heterosexual 

1346
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,800
relationship, like what, why do 
you love, you know, your wife or

1347
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,600
your girlfriend so much? 
And they're like, well, she just

1348
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,160
makes me better. 
Like all the responses are about

1349
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,640
them. 
Like, she's always there for me.

1350
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,040
Like, you know, And so I, I 
think it was like playing on 

1351
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,400
that, but I don't remember her 
speech because I was just so 

1352
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,720
freaked out, I guess. 
Yeah, I mean, I was. 

1353
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,520
I was terrified as well. 
OK, extra credits. 

1354
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,840
I already gave mine to Indy 
Navaretti as Nikki. 

1355
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:57,760
I am, I feel confident in saying
that this actress is going to be

1356
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:01,280
in a lot of shit. 
Hollywood is going to, I think 

1357
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,960
probably cast her in a lot of 
shit like a Mikey Madison. 

1358
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,080
Kind of level actress. 
Do you feel so Sydney coded too?

1359
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,400
Did you already say that Sydney?
Like Sydney, Scream Sydney. 

1360
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,080
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Neve Campbell. 

1361
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:19,080
Yeah, she like feels like her. 
My extra credit is going to the 

1362
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:23,360
one wish Willow. 
I really like like you were 

1363
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,920
saying, it's it feels like 
iconic in this horror movie. 

1364
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,520
I love how the the sound like I 
can still like picture it. 

1365
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,440
I'm not going to like sing it 
around, but it's in my mind 

1366
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:36,280
still. 
It feels very scary, but it 

1367
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,080
feels like it it is actually 
like a true invention. 

1368
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:43,760
And like you said, it wasn't 
like overly, I guess like 

1369
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,520
explored in terms of the 
supernatural elements of it, 

1370
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,600
like it was used for a grounded 
purpose, but it was still it 

1371
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:54,520
still had a kind of like scary 
element to it. 

1372
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,720
And I just really like. 
That and I like that they went 

1373
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,920
for it when the friend was like 
I want a billion dollars and the

1374
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,960
money came from the. 
Ceiling drops to his knees. 

1375
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,040
Yeah. 
And I do like the idea in my 

1376
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:09,040
head cannon that Nikki gets to 
wake up, leave the house and see

1377
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:10,920
his car outside with a billion 
dollars. 

1378
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,320
And just like now, she's good 
for life. 

1379
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:14,440
Maybe. 
Like that would be nice. 

1380
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,160
I mean, she's going to get 
accused of murder of all those 

1381
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,360
people in that room 'cause she 
shot him and then killed her. 

1382
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,280
Yeah, Yeah. 
I do think though like to that 

1383
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,640
that's more so I guess like my 
movie making extra credit. 

1384
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,640
But I think like to our 
conversation and maybe to give 

1385
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:34,760
the movie more credit, the extra
credit is obviously like doing 

1386
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,640
an interesting horror of like 
monogamy. 

1387
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:43,440
And men aren't shit like the 
bear guy and his friend, the 

1388
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:46,040
friend him literally telling the
friend because bear at least 

1389
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,360
does try at the end. 
Like hey, if you just do this, 

1390
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,960
Nicki will be saved. 
Sarah's already dead and he's 

1391
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,720
like, well then I want a billion
dollars. 

1392
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,440
Like that tells you everything 
you need to know about the 

1393
01:13:54,440 --> 01:13:57,360
spectrum of men and dating at 
the moment. 

1394
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:01,720
So that was the extra credits of
obsession. 

1395
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:06,760
My favorite movie of the year 
just jumped right ahead of Bone 

1396
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:07,920
Temple for me. 
Which. 

1397
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,800
It's. 
Saying a lot because I loved the

1398
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,600
Bone Temple. 
Both 5 Star Movies for me. 

1399
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,640
Not above Jimmy fingers. 
I love the bone temple. 

1400
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:20,160
By the way, I think Bone Temple 
is like Street. 

1401
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,520
I think it's on Netflix or wait,
it's on. 

1402
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:23,960
It's on something. 
It's on something. 

1403
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,400
Go watch The Bone Temple. 
Go watch my favorite horror 

1404
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:30,640
movie of the year. 
Also, apparently 28 years later,

1405
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,800
3 has been confirmed. 
I saw something about that, so 

1406
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,040
that's potentially happening. 
That would be great because the 

1407
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,400
second one didn't make much 
money. 

1408
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,600
We're going to be back, not in 
May for anything. 

1409
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,440
I think maybe the Boots Riley 
film. 

1410
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:51,000
Hopefully we'll see what movie? 
That's the Ocean's 11 heist 

1411
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:55,240
movie with Keke Palmer where 
they're stealing like fashion 

1412
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,640
clothes from Demi Moore. 
Speaking of Demi Moore, the 

1413
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,200
substance, Moore is nominated 
for an Oscar for a horror film. 

1414
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,960
Can you see Indy Navaretti being
nominated for an Oscar for this 

1415
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:05,120
movie, or is it a little bit too
much? 

1416
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,560
I think it was a little 
different with Demi Moore 

1417
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:10,920
because Demi Moore is. 
Like an icon in Hollywood the 

1418
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:12,280
past. 
She was like being nominated for

1419
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,640
other things I don't know that 
the Academy would like. 

1420
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:16,600
She's being nominated for GI 
James. 

1421
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:18,800
He got this movie. 
In my heart, yeah. 

1422
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,480
OK, we'll be back probably in 
late May or early June on 

1423
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:25,760
Patreon. 
Right now we are dropping speed 

1424
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:29,320
in The Mummy on A+B movies. 
We just did The notebook. 

1425
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,120
We just did The notebook. 
This is Spielberg time right 

1426
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,200
now, so we are re watching a lot
of Spielberg's movies. 

1427
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,280
We just watched War of the 
Worlds again last night because 

1428
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,640
we're covering that in June. 
We are covering ET and close 

1429
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,160
Encounters of the Third Kind 
this month at the end of May on 

1430
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,480
Patreon, which is exciting. 
And then we'll probably end June

1431
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:51,120
with another Alien film to just,
I don't know, end our disclosure

1432
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,000
day. 
Prep. 

1433
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:57,120
With arrival, which is really 
exciting so check us out on 

1434
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:59,880
Patreon, the description for 
that for free members right now 

1435
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:03,120
you have access to like a dozen 
episodes also don't forget to 

1436
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:04,920
follow us on Tiktok. 
I've been. 

1437
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,520
We should have said this at the 
top. 

1438
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,760
Oh my God yeah. 
Trey just made a Tiktok about 

1439
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,480
obsession. 
This episode's short, though. 

1440
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:15,480
Yeah, and the director's dad, 
right, commented on it. 

1441
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,800
I didn't realize, yeah, he 
commented on my Tiktok and on my

1442
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:19,520
Instagram, and I was like, who 
is this? 

1443
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,040
And I I was like, our last name 
looks familiar to the director. 

1444
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:23,080
I'm like, that's the same last 
name. 

1445
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:24,840
Let me do a quick Google. 
And yeah, it's his dad. 

1446
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,000
I'm so sad that Tiktok. 
Proud father. 

1447
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:32,040
Yeah, I'm so sad that TikTok 
didn't like which, by the way, 

1448
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:36,640
everything that we have said is 
stamped by his. 

1449
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,160
His father was like, you got it,
Like you understood the movie. 

1450
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,320
That was like, that is accurate,
an accurate analysis of the 

1451
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:47,320
screenplay. 
But I hate the TikTok like 

1452
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,680
stopped your videos because for 
people who don't know the the 

1453
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,720
TikTok creator behind the 
scenes, sometimes if you don't 

1454
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:58,640
like post a video everyday, it 
will freeze your your video at 

1455
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,720
like a certain cap of views. 
It won't push it to the 

1456
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:05,760
algorithm. 
And so I. 

1457
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:07,880
Guess that's. 
I think that's what I mean. 

1458
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:09,440
Obviously all of your other 
ones. 

1459
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,720
When you're posting every day, 
we notice that you're getting a 

1460
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:15,960
bunch of views. 
Yeah, I feel embarrassed to be 

1461
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:17,760
talking about social media like 
this. 

1462
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,560
On this podcast. 
You've also TikTok. 

1463
01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:22,800
I will do. 
I think Trey's doing a great 

1464
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:23,320
job. 
I'm. 

1465
01:17:23,440 --> 01:17:25,400
Doing good the past two months, 
but. 

1466
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,240
Like go watch his TikTok on 
obsession. 

1467
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:29,800
But if I called customer service
on TikTok I think a man would 

1468
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:33,360
answer and you would hear my 
sole pre TikTok screaming into a

1469
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,680
microphone. 
All right, peace, bye.