The. Hello, welcome to the extra
credits of Curry Barker's Obsession, one of the best
horror movies I've seen in years.
That is basically 500 Days of Summer meets Hereditary.
I'm Trey. And I'm Kelsey.
That's such a great way to describe it.
Yeah, it's sort of AI guess Manic Pixie Dream Girl turned on
its head into You're going to get what you want Joseph Gordon
Levitt in this Manic Pixie Dream.
Did you see the the Zooey Deschanela poster in his room?
What? No, I'm just kidding.
Oh, OK. I've been like confirmed.
OK, so I I love this movie. I already confirmed that.
I revealed it at the top by saying this is one of the best
horror movies that I've seen in years.
Because I already said that. I think it's your job now to
balance out the conversation per usual.
I think about, you know, whether or not this movie is an instant
classic, as I called it on Letterbox, even though I said it
was a Gen. Z instant classic, and I do feel
that way. OK, I can get on board with a
Gen. Z instant classic and I can get
on board with saying that it's one of the better horror movies
that I've seen in a long time. But I think, you know, I'm not
as high on as on it as you. Yeah.
What was your reaction walking out of the theater?
I think mostly I just dislike feeling horror dread.
It's just a it's a personal like relationship that I have to
horror movies. Like I don't really like monster
movies or dread movies. Those are my least favorite like
sub genres. Although I would say the monster
is actually a sub genre of horror.
The dread induced horror is more of like a tonal approach to
horror, not like a sub genre. But I just don't like I I talked
about this on me like these episodes this year, but and on
the the podcast in general. But I didn't really love Lynn
Ramsey's die my love, even though I really wanted to
because I love Jennifer Lawrence and I love Robert Pattinson.
Speaking of Gen. ZI am Gen.
Z, Rob Patt. But I think I think that like
that movie was just a, you know, two hours of like dread
inducing. It could be like a horror
adjacent movie. And I I don't like that even
with like popular horror films like Midsummer, right.
And I was I gave another example before, but there are other
movies that are like popular. I'll think about it in our
conversation as we go, but I just don't, I just don't like
sitting through dread inducing like horror specifically.
And so I think that is just why I'm not as high on it as you.
I think it's interesting. But ultimately there is a
component to horror movies that do feel a little bit like, I
don't know, it's like a I guess I'll just say it, whatever.
I'm trying not to be like rude because I think it was a good
movie and well crafted, but it does feel like a man is like, I
have a interesting idea and now I'm going to like add dread to
it and then like have people sit through this as instead of like
me feeling intellectually interested or like pushed
further. I don't think that's totally
fair for this movie or Midsummer, for example.
I think these are like the top of that, that like tonal
approach to horror for me. So that being said, maybe it is
like, you know, a five star movie in that genre, but I just
don't like the prolonged like feeling when I'm not feeling at
the same time intellectually challenged if the tone is so
similar throughout the movie. So would you say it's fair to
say you don't like movies that are going out of their way to
consume you rather than like, have a dialogue with the
audience? Yeah.
Like I think, if that makes sense.
Yeah, like Ari Astor's, you know, Midsummer, for example,
like the opening with Florence Pugh and like the sister.
Yeah. And then like throughout there
are I, I would say that's like the, the top, you know, example
of what he, what Ari Astor's able to do and like, why he's
one of my favorite horror directors, but 'cause he's doing
something interesting with masculinity throughout that.
But still, I walk away from that movie every time and I'm just
like, I just didn't like, I don't know.
I didn't love my experience with that.
Not obviously you're not supposed to love your experience
with like a horror movie, but I want to.
I want something like interesting to like build for
me. And sometimes that just like
doesn't happen. It did in Midsummer.
It didn't as much in this movie. The Phillippe brothers made a
movie last year, the sequel to Talk.
To me, that was the other one. Talk to me.
I I came away with a very similar reaction to this movie.
I I want to call it like feel bad.
Horror, that's what it is. And I think I'll push back a
little bit about the intellectual parts, but maybe
that's just because my personal experience with it was more, I
felt more welcomed into a dialogue between the bear
character and his character study of this cautionary tale.
As well as this like darker fable about what it's like to be
a modern woman dating or being friends with a man, which I
found to be I'm laughing because but this is actually like a
tragedy about this, this woman in this movie.
It's a spoiler warning moving forward.
Go see this movie in a theater. Yeah, definitely.
It's a good theater experience. I think it's an excellent
theater experience. I got I was fucked up from this
movie. It disturbs me in a lot of ways.
As Kelsey is saying, and I know what you're saying, the movies
that are a little bit more emotionally off putting to a
degree that it almost feels like overly mean spirited, but not
mean, like we can't handle it, but mean unnecessarily.
Like I understand what you're saying.
If that's I guess it correct. I would say it's I'm, I have
less of the approach of like, oh, I'm, I'm feeling like, like
I hear men talk about this in terms of, well, there's also
more like men in the movie podcasting space and critic
space. But a lot of men will say
something like, oh, like I didn't like that the I was
feeling the director was manipulating me or trying to
outsmart me. That's not what I'm saying at
all. It's more so like the singular
tone and then also me feeling bored from that if that makes
sense. Yeah, I get that.
There's a moment, though, in this movie where Nikki, our lead
character in the film, is has been possessed and she's
standing in the corner of Bear's room and they start doing
something. There's expert level lighting in
this movie. The shadows over faces is like,
insane. It made me think of.
And. This was the comparison I was
going to make. Kyoshi Kurosawa's Cure as a
psychological horror. And I thought a lot about that
movie while watching this. And that is a huge compliment to
this 20 something director who just made their first feature
film, who's made a lot of shorts obviously, and is like, it was a
YouTube at one point in a Tik Toker.
But he's been a director for I think it's like 7 or 8 years
now. But he's only made some short
films that one or two have done well, a longer one on YouTube
that did very well. But this movie I, I felt the
almost complete opposite to Kelsey walking out.
Kelsey had like almost like a 3 1/2 star experience with this.
I think, if that's fair to say. I walked out being like, oh,
this is a this is an instant classic movie.
This is one of the best original horror movies that I've seen
since Barbarian. If we're not counting Jordan
Peele's Nope, because that might be more like sci-fi and then
horror, like science fiction with horror elements.
This is probably the best horror movie I've seen since Barbarian,
which I think is like a a huge compliment to this filmmaker and
this crew, to Indy Navaretti, the actress who plays the quote
UN quote scream queen of the movie.
We'll get into that performance. I think it's an all time
performance. We're going to talk about.
I have a couple of my favorite all time horror performances
from lead woman in the history of movies that I want to, you
know, talk about with you to see what people think in our
comments. I can let us know, but.
That's exciting. I just felt like this, you know,
like I said, on a crafts level, the the shadows, yes, but also
just the the rhythm of the scares of this movie, The the
ability to have a little bit of like hesitancy with not trying
to overload the audience with like annoying jump scares like
other movies we've seen recently, like the Boogeyman or
smile or smile 2 or long legs. Smile 2 is a great smile.
Also, smile one and two are are both good examples of like sort
of the C tier or C tier of like this movie.
Like I would say I I liked smile.
It's interesting. I like to smile more than you
because I was like this is just like dumb like and I I like it.
Like I like the the jump scares. Extremely repetitive while like
kind of like being extremely successful.
It had like a very singular like thing.
It was trying to approach with like mental health and like I
was like, oh, this is I'm fine with this where you wanted it to
do something more. So it's it's interesting.
Like I'm I'm interested to hear why you loved this so much.
Well, to stick on the smile .1 of the things that's really
annoying about smile in the quote UN quote elevated horror
genre right now. And what's happened with Ari
Astor, what's happened with Jordan Peele, Robert Eggers to a
certain extent, even Alex Garland with men is that there's
so many horror films really since Hereditary that are more
about world building and giant mythologies and lore then they
are about the characters and what they're going through in a
more personal setting. And the great part about
Hereditary is it's a blend of both in Midsummer as well.
And that's why Ari is probably the the king of the horror genre
over the last decade with Jordan Peele probably sitting right
next to him with us and get out, obviously, and whatever he has
coming next. But I found this movie to be
really satisfying and how grounded its approach was.
It was like, yes, there's a magical stick that does some
shit. And yes, there's a, you know,
customer service line that you might be talking to a Gen.
Z devil. The voice of that, the voice of
that guy by the. Way is Curry Barker the film.
Maker Oh, is it really OK? And he may let you in on the
actual soul of the person that you've, I guess, bewitched,
Yeah, who is now possessed by some kind of demon.
And I found that one wish Willow conceit to be something that a
lot of film makers would have been like.
I found the perfect way to make the new Hellraiser franchise.
I found the perfect way to make the new Final Destination, which
is kind of like what the Talk to Me brothers are doing right now.
And I really appreciate that this director didn't really give
a shit about the magic. He cared more about what the
relationship represented. And that gets more to the
intellectual point. I really like this movie and
it's screenplay. I think the text is really deep.
And I am not just saying that this is like a Gen.
Z movie in a superficial way because there's like like 25
year old actors in it. I think it's really smart about
how it's it's really smart to move away from trauma and almost
to make its protagonist Bear, who, quote UN quote, is
traumatized because he's like lost family members or he lost
the cat. And he should be the person who
is like traumatized in the movie, but his traumas are made
to be looked at as like, sort of like mediocre in comparison to
what he's doing to this woman. And I found that to be really
special because a lot of horrors about trauma right now.
And then I think what made this movie so specific about Gen.
Z is that it understands something very, I think, unique
about modern relationship culture, which is that we have
younger generations who want to be more relationship fluid, more
emotionally open, more progressive about monogamy and
unconditional love, which is what Bear represents.
But also still sort of being haunted by older romantic ideas
about soul mates and about finding quote UN quote the one
and this movie suggesting that Bear and his version of the one
and his like male entitlement over whatever woman he views as
quote UN quote. The one is inherently violent in
a very possessive and jealous, jealousy based way.
I thought that was really, really well done and I think
speaks to a lot of relationship anxieties across, let's say,
people under the age of 30. Yeah, I mean, I think I think
that is definitely true. Like I think the movie is
interesting. I should have probably said that
at the top, like textually I do think the movie is interesting
what to talk about, but I I agree.
Like, I do think it captures this kind of like understanding
of a generation who has this really like contradictory,
complicated relationship with understanding a contract, a
construct like monogamy and not wanting to perpetuate kind of
like the the idea like what you're saying this like
heterosexual relationship and and gendered like ways of, well,
I guess like right, in terms of like the the concept of like not
wanting to perpetuate that, but at the same time having like
this kind of like lag of feeling.
And like that's the like often the mold that they're seeing in
media from their parents. And so like they, they might
feel right that like they still want that.
And so like there's a real that is a really interesting like
paradox. But I think ultimately, like
you're right that I haven't seen a movie that has explored the
the kind of like idea that is is embedded in like heterosexual,
monogamous relationships. And it's like you're right
though, the wishing Willow wasn't made into like a cult
like Rosemary's Baby or something, even though which.
Would have been cool. I'm cool to see that sequel, but
I I do think like that was just used right as a segue into
exploring like what the movie was ultimately interested,
interested in. And what I do think is
interesting of this idea of like, like you're saying like
symbolic violence, actual like physical violence and power
dynamics that are like, are unequal power dynamics that are
embedded in the idea of what people kind of like think about
in terms of like heterosexual relationships.
And so we're just like monogamy in general, I guess, and like US
culture. So yeah, I mean, I, I definitely
think that's interesting too. We.
Should say the movie's very funny and one of the most
comedic beats of the movie. That's sort of like meta textual
is as an audience, you're you've already figured it out before
Bear has said it out loud or is told this by the other guy in
the shop later in the movie. But you're like, when is Bear
going to kill himself? So he saves this woman?
Like when is this like quote, UN quote protagonist who's really
sort of the antagonist of the movie going to figure out how to
save her. And then it's not until she's
like, bear, can you please kill me so I can like, move on
because I'm being possessed by this demon.
And he's like, you don't want to be with me.
Well, no, he's importantly says right, like which it it does a
really good job, which we'll we'll talk about of this like
seemingly what you said at the beginning, like seemingly nice
guy, right, that is still like, I guess like.
Joseph Gordon Levitt from 500. Days ago, yeah, Yeah.
But to use I guess like horror adjacent language infected with
this idea of like masculinity and what he deserves.
And and so he importantly in that scene when she asks to kill
her, right. Because she says I've never been
with you. It's always been like this other
demon thing. Yeah, manic Pixie demon, I
think, as you said before. Many Pixie dream demon manic.
Yeah, what I coined it. Yeah, you you should stamp it
because it's amazing. But but when she says that, he
in response says what's so bad about being with me?
Right? Like then he becomes the even
though he has been the horror villain.
Like I think the movie does a really good job in that
particular like space of showing us that he's the villain but not
doing anything that's outwardly direct.
That's a little bit more like you said, Ground did like
something we would see someone say where like the insell creeps
out. Right.
And traditionally it would be his friend in a horror movie who
would be presented as more of the kind of like aggro male who
is really like insecure and fragile and is sort of insell
coded in his like the way that he tries to present himself in a
very hyper aggressive way or something like that.
That's traditionally what horror movies do.
And that's like the first person to die.
And he certainly gets killed in this movie at the end.
Yeah. And like, almost in almost in a
very disrespectful way, which I appreciated with the screen
behind Nikki is, like, kind of blurry.
And then she shoots him, but he falls.
We don't really get to even see him killed, which I thought was,
like, funny. But then this movie is also
confronting you with like, oh, here's this, like, seemingly
nice, lonely guys are saying. But he also believes his
feelings are so sincere that they entitle him to her body or
her soul in this movie for its conceit.
So let's get into the movie. There's a couple things I want
to keep in mind throughout the conversation that are just like
3 big notes that I was really impressed about.
First, the thing we already just touched on, masculinity.
The ways in which this movie finds men are embarrassing I
found to be really satisfying and funny and not like in a
virtue signaling way, which is impressive in a really precise
way where like male loneliness and self pity become really
dangerous in our for modern men becoming more and more dangerous
because they're mistaken for innocence like the quiet.
Sad boy who wears a sweater is. Timothy Chalamet and Lady Bird
and then this movie, he is basically trapping this woman in
his house and I think it's pretty observant in that way.
Second. But just multiple iterations of
Kyle. Yeah, so many, Yes, a lot of
Zach Braff's meets Joseph Gordon Levitz meets Timothy Chalamet's.
All of their characters from romance movies over the last 25
years. The second thing I want to talk
about a lot is how this movie explores agency with Nikki's
character. Because one of the scariest
things in this movie is that it's not just that Nikki has
like this spell cast on her to become like an exorcist level
demon or obsessive. It's that her real self is
trapped underneath this demonic exorcist performance.
And her body is like, as you said, like from what Bear said
is doing the romance. But as she tells him that this
is not her controlling herself at all.
That those are some of the scariest moments in the movie
where you see Nikki. Yeah, like she comes out for two
seconds at a time. And I, and I was going to ask
you and I was going to wait, but I'll just ask you now.
Do you think there's moments in the movie that on rewatch will
go, oh, there's, there's Nikki in that moment.
Because I even thought when she hits herself in the face
sometimes, I was thinking, is that her trying to kill herself?
Well, no, yeah. That is like we're, you know, at
the party when which we'll talk about with the like, Jenga, you
know, like written prompts or whatever that is.
You're right. Like one of the most terrifying
moments of the movie where, I mean, we'll talk about that
whole scene, which is like disturbing, strange, like.
But when she screams like, no, that isn't me, right?
And it's just like, hits herself in the face with a, like, really
thick, like, liquor bottle. Like, that is terrifying.
But yeah, I do. I think that is interesting.
Like, those are some of the most scary parts of the movie.
Or when she screams in bed with Bear at the beginning of their
relationship or beginning of the spell and they're beginning to
hook up essentially and then she screams and she jumps off the
bed. Or later when he wakes up, she's
in the corner of the room. We already talked about that.
Or doesn't she whisper to him at one point outside of the police
kill me, Isn't there another moment?
Or is she in the bathroom? I forget.
I forget, but yeah, there are a lot of there's.
A lot of moments where I was like, is that Nikki's body or is
it that? Or is that like her soul, if
that makes sense? Third is just the tone I really
want to like focus on, even though this movie is so dread
inducing, as you said, and kind of brutal sometimes.
Like the way Sarah is killed, in particular when he kills her is
probably the most exploitative moment in the movie where I was
like, probably didn't need to do all that.
But because he obviously like treating a like a woman's body
in that way just felt inherently uncomfortable and like sort of
insensitive because I didn't really find a thematic point
there outside of like Bear leading to the death of all her
friends. Right outside of maybe like you
could think about like we'll, we'll talk about like jealousy
being this like theme, but that he wants from her almost.
And and then he is like doing this weird thing where he then
feels like after he gets the wish that he wants almost right,
that he wants to then change it up and, and feels like he has
this power as like a man ultimately around the like,
women in his life who have like, pretty terrible options around
them. So, yeah, I, I think though,
like, especially thinking about like the legacy of like women
being killed in horror in such exploitative ways.
There, there. Yeah.
There was like an element of it being like so grotesque.
And it was like, to what point where?
Yeah. I feel like something like the,
I mean, you know, that's always the, the kind of like abject
like feeling of, of seeing some someone like, you know, in
Arioster, like people jumping off a Cliff or something, right?
Like that's also used a lot. But in this I, I, I felt that
way, I guess like a few times though, throughout the movie,
like even with Nikki's character.
So that was also something that I was like, I, I couldn't tell.
There's some things that I didn't know if we're like if
they were super explored in terms of like women's like I
couldn't tell. I guess if the movie was
exploring this through bears wish of like a woman being like
essentially like completely submissive to him and and being
like obsessed with him or in catering to him, or if it was
like also in conversation or it thought it was interesting that
like Nikki as a woman would do something like this.
Does that make sense? Like, and and of course, like,
you know, there are like aspects of being complicit in like a lot
of different like things. But it just felt, I guess there
were moments throughout the movie and that's maybe why I
wasn't as high on it coming out that I couldn't, that I didn't
feel like we're like super explored in terms of looking at
I guess you, like you said, we'll talk about like Nikki's
like agency, quote UN quote in the movie.
I didn't feel like that was totally explored.
I could have a totally different relationship to it next time.
Maybe I was a little bit like skeptical and in terms of like
where it was going, that could also be.
A part of my. Watching it.
Was it that you were worried that the audience would go like
for men in particular would go, oh, this is funny because this
is the fear of like getting actually become like having the
woman of your dreams fall in love with you and then starting
an unconditional relationship only to then be like, I actually
want a conditional relationship. And that in that way it becomes
a comedy for men, like a dark absurd or a comedy for men to
laugh at. Like I actually don't want a
woman who doesn't want me to go to guys night.
Yes, like I felt like they were. You know it was commenting on.
That yeah, it was commenting on that like I think at the end and
I'm and I'm find it like talk about it with that that lens.
But I do think there are like aspects of it that just weren't
as I guess, like as clear like it felt like there were certain
jokes that were like that someone who didn't view the
movie as bear as the villain that could interpret it like,
oh, this is funny because this is like what happens in a
relationship and like essentializing like, you know,
like gender, like behavior or something of like, Oh yeah, like
women are obsessive or something, you know, like, but
obviously they're like the movie is pushing you to to think about
bear and as ruining her life because it's he learns that he
can only like kill himself to to save her.
So like he is ultimately the one who is like doing this to her
and trapping Nikki. So like, it's hard to read it
the other way, but I did feel like there were moments I guess,
where it was like this could be kind of confused.
Well, it's a really interesting, I'm sure on rewatch because it's
mostly from his POV, textually and subtextually, where the only
time we get to really see Nikki talk on her own and say her own
interests or what she wants in the world or to find out more
about her humanity is when she talks about that she's writing a
book and she wants to, you know, a romance book.
And I think he says like a love story.
And she was like, there's a difference.
I'm pretty sure is what she says.
Oh, right, yeah. And he was kind of confused by
that and which makes sense, and she wanted to move away and he
was almost trying to convince her to stay.
What I found to be really successful about that aspect is
that both versions of Nikki, the Manic Pixie Dream Girl and the
Manic Manic Pixie Dream Demon, it is hard to say are male
products of a male gaze from bear like a psychological gaze
in particular, which is like really interesting to me.
Like as somebody who is also thinking about how is the
average movie goer watching this film?
How are they taking this in where not to be like pretentious
about it, but where is the media literacy on on this level?
And then also taking the consideration that I could be
over reading it and I'm giving this like 26 year old filmmaker
too much credit, whatever, like which I also don't want to be
Aegis. He could be a, you know, a great
screenwriter. I have no idea, but he seems
like he's a very good screenwriter.
So I just know when we watched Barbarian and we analyzed it and
we were like, this is amazing for all these reasons, the the
feminism of it, the gentrification of it, the
history of it, the Reaganism of it.
And we talked to Zach and he was like, that's all.
There really wasn't my intention.
I was talking about sobriety. You know what I mean?
Like, I was talking about going through a difficult time and
exploring the demons in your basement and uncovering those
and confronting those, which is a beautiful, like, poignant,
like poetic way to make a horror movie.
But this movie I do find I feel more comfortable to be like
there was a little bit more intention.
Well, yeah, it feels more intentional, like very focused
on this idea. I think it's fair to and the
Third Point I wanted to know was just looking out for more horror
comedy tones, but I think I already mentioned that.
All right, so getting into the story, we'll start with Bear.
What do you think about this performance from Michael
Johnston? Does he just kind of get, like,
outplayed by Indy? Never ready, Indy never ready,
never ready. Yeah.
I think the casting was great. Like I don't know what the
budget was on this, but I'm assuming.
It was like 500 grand. OK, yeah, I was like assuming
not a lot and that's wild then considering like the actual
filmmaking, which is great and like editing.
But anyway, just with the performance, I feel like the
casting was so great in picking someone that actually does seem
like he is genuinely like good intentioned, right?
Like, he he at the very start when we open and we have that,
like, monologue from him, he's kind of like nervous and twitchy
and wants to to be like, I guess like, nice and healthy.
He's professing his love to someone who I guess is we didn't
even realize, like, it wasn't their friend.
It's like the waitress. Yeah.
And then his friend is like watching him do this.
So it's like this exercise. And he's telling Nikki like
that, you know, you were there for me, like all these like
things that are seemingly like sweet and the the best friend,
like frat adjacent, you know, guy who reminds me of so many
other, I guess, just like characters in movies. 2013 Miles
Teller. Okay, but there's like another
there are other like actors too that he really reminded me of,
but I I don't know their name so but.
Name somebody from 13 reasons why there's a lot of like high
school actors like. This guy exactly.
Yeah, so, but anyway, so back to the the bear character, though,
He he just did, he was like such a good, he did such a good job
at portraying like that, that kind of like seemingly nice, but
still like self focused, like type of seemingly like healthy
masculinity. Like it's on the right track in
the spectrum versus like, you know, toxic friend, like that's
what he's like coded out because then his friend is like just
call her freaky Nicky, right. And she he's like, no, why would
I like insult her, right? Why would I like use like your,
your like traditional tools of trying to like court her or
whatever. Yeah.
And we learned he's the anti wing man because there's a very,
very specific reason why he's trying to.
To mess up their yeah, a connection, but but even then
like it's not is it really a connection?
Like I want to talk about that, that conversation where she
leaves him after the bar because like she asks him, do you like
me? And I want to ask you like in a
second what that means to you. But regardless, I thought it was
like he did a good job of like it was even interesting.
Like as we got deeper into the movie and Nikki was transformed,
he could seemingly be like this person who was like, no, like
you are so beautiful. Like I love you for who you are.
Like I feel so much empathy for what you're going through.
And he like did this to her, though, like, he doesn't, like,
he doesn't seem to have any like, idea of like
responsibility in terms of like he emotionally feels it and he
has performance like shows that. But intellectually he's like
pushing it away. And I don't know how he's able
to do that, but he delivers that, at least for me on screen.
What do you think? Yeah, cosign all that.
I think it's probably because there's so many, like we just
joked about with Braff and Levitt and Chalamet, there's so
many romantic versions of the awkward, shy introvert who at
worst is pathetic but ultimately is harmless.
Logan Lehrman, like actors like that.
And they're especially like white men who still who have an
innocence to them, a youthfulness to them, but have
sort of been traumatized by something.
So they're kind of interesting. Austin Abram.
Austin Abrams is sort of falling into this too now.
And I like this actor. Plays that type extremely well
and then basically satirizes it in an effective way as to what
you're saying. Because he views, he basically
sees himself as so nice that his entitlement or like to somebody
else can't be looked at as that. It must just be a long king.
And he sort of completes yearning with his entitlement, I
guess, of her body and her soul, which is like he thinks he's
just basically the guy from Pride and Prejudice when really.
Mr. Darcy or? Mr. Darcy, I thought you.
Meant Mr. Is it Bingham thing? No, I mean.
Hand Flexer Mr. Darcy, yeah, he thinks he's that I think like, I
think he thinks he's like really yearning and being respectful
and is trying to do everything quote UN quote by the book and
everything, right? And because he did everything
quote UN quote, right, he is sort of obligated to have this
wish, which is like, if there's anything, I don't think there's
anything more defining of like modern the the failures of
modern masculinity than than that which is really well done
in the writing, in the performance.
So basically the kind of the thing with Bear early on is he
has opportunities to say how he feels.
Going back to your point, you want to bring up Nikki, whether
she actually liked him back or what she was asking him.
Yeah. I guess that is the question of
her. First of all, also her
performance, which we'll we'll talk about is like amazing.
It's my extra credit. OK, yeah, it's wild.
Yeah, there's not a good adjective to describe what she's
doing. She's doing like 6 performances.
In the So Scary. It is singular.
It is like, I haven't felt this way since Lupita Nuongo and us.
Like that's how big of a deal it is for me personally.
Yeah. I mean that's a great comp to to
because she has to like do the dual personality also here for
sure. So, yeah, I would, I guess I
wanted to ask like at at that conversation where they're in
the car and they're coming home from like trivia.
There seems to be like this, this conversation like going on
between them where they are friends and have like a, a
pretty good relationship with each other.
In terms of like her saying, you know, you're the only person I
can like talk to about my book, like maybe seeming seemingly
saying like you're the only person also who like shows
interest in that. But then when she gets out of
the car, I forget exactly how it happens, but she says, like, do
you like me? I think she like turns around
and, and she asks him. And in that moment I, I was
wondering if the movie was like playing with us or playing with
the idea of like the, the trope of that of like, oh, here's his
chance from the male POV to like to be like, yes, I'll say yes.
And then she'll be like, oh, of course, you know what I mean?
Like, it was all that was like really interesting to me because
I I couldn't tell if the movie was playing with us or not.
I think it was is now after seeing the whole thing is like
what? Feels like it's satirizing the
ROM com and because at one point I think I turned to you about 20
minutes and I was like, I'd watch a ROM com with these two
because they have good chemistry.
I would too. Yeah, or if it's just platonic
friends figuring out that they don't like each other or her
kind of slow quitting that idea for him, if he's like obsessed
with her. And I think that was really
successful about the relationship.
I think it's really important it started there, rather than
starting with the wishing Willow.
And it's like or wishing Willow, the one wish Willow and its
origins from a witch from 7000 years ago who created a stick.
So I'm glad it started there. I thought it was really
successful, but I think, yeah, she was saying, do you like me
as to sort of like prevent that? Like, clear the air, sort of.
Yeah. Like, have the conversation.
Yeah. OK.
But it wasn't that she liked him.
I don't think so, but I think the movie is.
I think it's a smart commercial decision.
I would not have made it, but like it is a smart commercial
decision to allow men to go. You fucked that up because you
didn't have to. If you didn't break, if you
didn't break that, you could have just made that work.
Could have just knocked on the door and talked to her and hung
out and like figured out where your relationship could have
gone and instead you basically were what maybe some men would
say while watching this movie were a beta and you broke the
stick and now you have a demonic girlfriend.
So I think I can imagine a mid 20 year old man writing it in
that way. He left room for that.
But I do think he was ultimately saying that she was going to
reveal to him that we are just platonic best friends.
I, I think you're right and I think that's why it's so funny
and smart to call it like this crossover between Hereditary and
500 Days of Summer, because I think 500 Days of Summer was
like ground breaking in that we grew up with like so many
romantic comedies that were focused on like the, the idea of
he's just not that into you. Like this this woman who was
pining over this man and like that, that was just like, so I
guess it's 90s, early 2000s, mid 2000's.
The 500 days of summer was so interesting because you know he
doesn't get summer like. He gets autumn.
Yeah, and it feels like a horror movie of that, right?
Like him, you know, when he is talking to, I think what is it
like his little sister or his friend?
And he's like devastated that this woman doesn't love him,
right. Like it feels, I guess similar
here. Like it's it's playing on that
idea, although it was funny because, you know, obviously
when you're watching that and he she asked, do you like me?
Because she's getting a sense and I think she like wants to
have a conversation. And he says no after.
Like this is apparently all he thinks about, all he talks about
to his friends, like he is a little obsessive and like maybe
unhealthful, unhealthfully thinking about and like building
up this idea of her. And and so it is funny though,
because you're. Like what the?
Reaction is to be like, dude, you did mess that up because.
Well, the wish. Is your one chance to tell her.
Maybe this is a misreading on my part.
I keep saying demonic or demon but maybe the wish is a
literalization? Like the wish itself becomes a
possession so like she becomes his.
Almost a literalization of his obsession for her, if that makes
sense. There's not like there's not
like some kind of witch inside her body, I guess is the point
that the spell that's overtaken her is his imagination of what
he wanted from her, the way he was obsessed with what they
could be and what he wanted from her.
And so his male dream gaze basically takes over, consumes
her soul. And I keep calling it like
demonic because I keep thinking about like conjuring or
exorcist. Or whatever, like demon coded
though, like you were saying, like the there's so many, you
know, horror adjacent, like images of someone being
possessed. It is like a possession.
But there's not an alternate personality, I guess is what I'm
saying? Like the the Nikki.
Well, besides the phone call where we hear Nikki screaming
when he's like, do you want to talk to?
Me. Well, that's the real life
Nikki. Yeah.
Right. So, but like there is like
something that has taken over her.
We just don't like completely. We sort.
Of out of it because everything she says or answers when she's
like no, no, no, no, no, like when she's doing things like.
That she's. Crashing out she but she feels
like it feels it feels like I'm watching Companion with Sophie
Thatcher. Yes, I thought of that movie
too. If that makes sense.
Like I'm watching an AI malfunction and I think that's
important because it's again, just she, the agency has been
ripped and she her ceiling and her lows or just whatever his
imagination was of her. So she becomes like a Stepford
wife in that way, I guess. OK, yeah.
So I mean, yeah, I thought a step for that's so funny.
I thought a step for wives and companion too.
And maybe it's you're right. It felt, I mean, she also kind
of like this. Is going to be such an iconic
horror movie. When I first saw her I also like
thought the actor is just like so beautiful but like.
Yeah, she's gorgeous. But in a very like traditional
like I guess like beauty standard way where she looks
like AI. And so I also maybe was thinking
about it in in that way and she's also like moving very
robotically. But I yeah, I mean.
I mean there's one scene where they literally have her go in
reverse where it's like very yes in post production.
Whatever they did in the. Edit Yeah, feels like a Stepford
Wives kind of thing, like malfunctioning or.
That was sick. Like we, if we have, you know,
the Nosebleed or something from Get Out 'cause I think that she
did say in like a interview that the no, no, no was, you know,
from like Get Out. So I do think like that was.
That Betty Gabriel. Yeah, Betty Gabriel.
Georgina. When yeah, she's talking to
Chris, I think. So you could view it as a
possession movie, but I think I think it's like very similar
like I, I, but I think. You're very unique.
You're saying you're making the distinction though that is like
specifically like his wish. Over her.
There's not some Emily Rose from like the 1200s who is captured
over her body, right? Do you know what I mean?
Like it's. Like a demon spirit.
Right. It's a patriarchal gaze that has
possessed her. So it's very specific.
OK, let's get to the One Wish Willow.
What do you think about the choice to give us horror
iconography, which we love as being huge short appeal fans,
John Carpenter fans like giving us the scissors from us, if you
will. But like this red packaging of
the One Wish Willow, this little half wand, this little stick
that has a sound to it that you break and you make your wish to.
What do you think about that imaginative choice in here to
not overuse it? Did they did they underplay it?
Did they overplay it? What do you think about that
choice or that creation? I think that it I thought it was
great, like the the music that the box plays kind of like a
music box, which is another big horror trope.
I thought it was like, it is really iconic, like it sticks to
my mind. I also like how when he went to
the shop, like I like having the shop that he goes to and.
And everybody so nonchalant about it.
It's like, yeah, it works. Please don't come back.
My favorite whole thing. It's like the the shop kind of
feels like scary. Have you ever been to like a
Crystal shop? You know, I really don't fuck
with those places. Well.
I in some like the spiritual way, I just don't they.
Always. Yeah, well, they seem, they feel
scary to me at least. They're like dimly lit.
I've only been to one. There was one that when I was
like a kid, there was like a downtown, historic downtown area
where that I live nearby. And it was like the witch store.
And that's like, I think it was called like something like that.
And it was like dimly lit. There were like crystals and
shit everywhere. And I always felt like scared
going in there. Again, another Gen.
Z element to this movie that'll make it feel like of an era.
Especially like she gifts him that like Tiger's eye stone.
Or something. Like so she like obviously like
is interested in crystals and shit, but anyway, but I love how
they like broke through this idea of like he's going to get
her a gift that actually seemingly thoughtful at the
beginning because she just lost it over the phone.
And then the woman is like on her has like a headphone in like
an Airpod in is talking to someone and it's kind of like a
scary social interaction where he's like, what, like are you
talking to me? And then and then later on when
he like I, I just thought it felt felt iconic, which is I
think, you know, a positive thing towards this movie.
It's so economical you never see the shop.
Of just like looking at when he first sees the one wish Willow
it felt like an icon like I thought of like big for example
when. The Tom Hanks movie.
Yeah, when the kid sees the like the wish box, I was like, oh,
this feels like, I don't know, it felt interesting.
And then I, but I loved how it wasn't, it was like still
grounded like you're saying later when the guy was there and
he's like, just like doing inventory at the, the front desk
or the the cash register and he's like, dude, just don't come
in here with that energy. You know what I mean?
You're. Bringing down the bottle.
He has like blood all over him. He's like whatever, just like
don't come in here with that energy.
And he also is like fucking with him and ends up like saying
yeah, we do still have them in stock.
There's like 2 of them left. And I like when he's like.
I was really you. Could get a friend to make a
wish for you and then they start kind of like hazing out his
audio and he's like, or you could just kill yourself.
That'd actually be really easy. Yeah, it was.
Really. Fun.
Wait, what was your question before?
Because I I guess like had a response.
Well, you obviously loved it the way I did as a as the
imagination around the one wish Willow.
Obviously it's very much a trope about the cursed object and what
it will do to its user. That is certainly a thing across
different genres of storytelling, like in the
history of storytelling. But what do you think about the
the use of it? Like do you think that they were
almost like satirizing the object?
Because like that's something in like talk to me with a hand if
you remember, or there was a whistle movie that came out like
literally in the past few weeks. I mean, there's also just
weapons, the snapping stick. Exactly.
Yes, yes, good point. But this movie felt like it was
kind of like having some fun with that idea because the stick
doesn't really fucking matter to the to the point where he
there's a number on and he calls it.
And like the whoever operates it from hell is just like, yeah, I
can like let you hear what's going on inside that body of the
person and you hear the screaming, which is terrifying.
But just the way that that's done in such a deadpan Gen.
Z humor, I thought was really effective.
But it felt like it was poking fun at the very idea of a cursed
object. Yeah, I I liked how it was used
in a like, unserious way like you're talking about.
Yeah, it didn't feel like it was.
Yeah. Like, like this was going to be
this iconic that it was like, yeah, it was like making it like
a joke, sort of. Yeah.
I thought it was a really like interestingly used.
Yeah, I just like they didn't take itself too seriously.
Movies like this are like, well, there has to be this great
mythology behind all this. And maybe I just sound like
frustrated with the horror genre right now, but I do think we're
hitting like a post elevated horror space, especially with
the new scary movie coming out soon.
I do think we're going to enter into a new spear of filmmaking,
an ecosystem of filmmaking that is going to probably lean in
more of like a Your Ghost direction where it is sort of
dread inducing and absurd. Like a Lanthimos.
Even though he doesn't make horror movies, they feel sort of
like horror movies sometimes, which I think is like an
interesting direction for the genre to go in.
Yeah, I mean, well, like his first movie, Dog Tooth
definitely feels like that. Yeah, OK, so he wishes for Nikki
to love him more than anything else.
And this is where it sort of turns into an evil 500 Days of
Summer, which is awesome. It's a great pitch for a movie.
And that's where we can get more into indie.
Never Eddie's performance here, which we've already talked a
little bit about, but I want to get more into like just the best
performances to me personally for scream Queens or women in
film. And in particular, how she
stacks up with this spectrum of emotions that she's displaying
in this movie where she has this very impossible role or demand
or ask here where she has to be this romantic dream version of
herself in the 1st 20 minutes. She then has to become the sort
of like terrified version of Nicki buried underneath that
only comes out sometimes. And then she has to be the
possessed version who sort of malfunctions from time to time.
And so she's doing all of that all at once in like a such.
A. Powerful way that there wasn't 1
scene where I was like that was too much.
Which is such a credit to her. Like I can't I can't even think
of 1 moment where I was like she out.
She did a little too much there. Like Naomi Scott.
I think it's her name from the Smile movies.
She's really good or Smile too. Do you remember that movie?
Kevin Bacon's daughter. Yes, Kevin Bacon's daughter.
Isn't that who that is? I think so.
Naomi Scott. No, wait, no, Kevin's bacon.
Kevin Bacon's daughter's from Smile one she's.
Very oh sorry, Smile 2. Yeah, Naomi Scott.
I think it's her name. She's really good in Smile Two.
I'm forgetting. This is what she looks like.
She, I think you look Emma Chamberlain for some reason.
OK, She kind of looks like Ember Chamberlain.
She does. Interesting.
Yeah, no, I think they they were both good.
Well, there were moments, I guess is what I'm saying, in
those movies where it's like your role is just to scream at
things. There's not a lot of range you
can show. But they were really good as a
recent performance I can think of.
But here's my list, assuming you agree that we shouldn't be
having this conversation. Yeah, I like, I like this.
I'm ready. So Mia Farrow, Obviously,
Rosemary's Baby, Jodie Foster, Silence of the Lambs, Toni
Collette, Hereditary, Florence Pugh, Midsummer, Lupita Noongo
and Us, Elisabeth Moss and The Invisible Man.
Which is. Underrated.
I was just going to say yeah.
And Mia Goth in Pearl, a movie I don't love but a performance
that is like, unreal. And I think Micah Monroe.
She's great. Yes, she's.
As follows Claudio Kuno's watcher yes yeah I mean I feel
like my only hesitation for saying like yeah she is like
among these scream Queens and I I don't know how far we go back
like do we go Jamie Lee Curtis like do we talk about Nancy from
Nightmare on Elm Street I. Guess you're right, yeah.
You know, because Scream Queen also, like when I think of that,
I think of like slashers more. So that's true.
But I understand you're being like more encompassing of like
here are roles where specifically the woman is at
the, like, center of the movie, almost right, where it seems
like Jamie Lee Curtis is kind of like being chased by Michael or
like, yeah, So I mean. Like if Alien counted, obviously
Sigourney Weaver would be #1 here for me.
So yeah. So comment any scream Queens
that we left out, I guess below. And the only reason, though,
that I think I'm hesitant to say like, well, I think her
performance is certainly something that is like among the
people you listed. You're right that it is a a
really like difficult balance. I'm sure to like not overdo it
and still be scary kind of muted, feeling like she's
trapped but still doing an exaggerated performance because
that's what it like calls for and her being like possessed.
The only thing is though, that this movie doesn't feel.
I think this is probably why I walked out being like more 3 1/2
stars than like really being high on it is.
Ultimately the movie is about like bear, which is fine.
Like I think it's interesting in that aspect for all the reasons
we've already talked about and like this idea of like modern
masculinity and heterosexual monogamy and like this this
paradox. Like I think it's interesting
for all those reasons and fine to like focus on on that and
have the the premise of like her being possessed.
But ultimately, like the movie isn't like about her in the way
that, yeah, like other possession movies aren't about
her, right. And so, yeah, like, I, I think
it's really interesting. I was just thinking about, I've
talked about this on the pod before when we've talked about
horror movies. But like, Carol Clover has a a
book on horror movies and she talks about like, possession
plots and like how women usually go from like and like ABA, like
they basically just get possessed and then return to
normal. Yes.
But really, the possession movies.
Yeah. Like The Conjuring.
Exactly. Or you could think of like The
Exorcist. But really the movie is about
like the man being transformed at the end of it.
Like you could think of The Exorcist.
What Father? What's his name?
Father. Father.
Father, Father. Father Rocky.
Father Sylvester Stallone. The Father if you've.
Seen The Exorcist recently? You understand that joke?
Wait, what? The Father in The Exorcist, the
priest who is like having a crisis of faith.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is like boxing and is like side.
Timing. Literally looks like Sylvester
Stallone from the first Rocky. That also came out.
Around the same time as The Exorcist.
Anyway, I understood what you were saying, but I just didn't.
I was like, wait, was was Stallone like in a recent
Exorcist movie? OK regardless, sorry.
Usually like the possession movies.
Carol Clover talks about how like the possession movies are
usually ultimately about a man's transformation, like father X
whatever in in exorcist or right like thinking about like the
like men in in like conjuring but I.
Even though Bathsheba was victimized by the Salem Witch
Trials. That's true.
Or actually in that movie, I guess it's more conservative
leaning. So they were actually right to
have killed Bathsheba because she was a witch.
She was like a demon. Remember We talked about how
sexist? That movie was, that was yeah.
And I don't, I don't know if like The Conjuring is like
totally that cause the I've, I've always forget.
That's like the beauty of that movie.
It's like I've watched it so many times 'cause I kind of
forget the ending and like the dad is kind of like, sort of
like absent. So he doesn't really have a
total transformation at the end. But regardless like she uses
other possession movies like. Pictures of our family fell down
the stairs. I guess I'll go on this truck.
Because I'll just leave. But regardless, this movie was
interesting. I was thinking about it like in
terms of like does bear get transformed through this like
possession right, because she does follow the ABA.
She follows the like normal possessed back to normal and he
then like isn't transformed at the end because he like dies at
the end. He like takes pills, but I was I
was just like going through through this in my mind.
I was like, what is the movie saying at the end ultimately,
like it's not ultimately about her, though I guess it's like
her ultimately like her effect or the idea of his wish that
effect on this person and both of them.
I guess anyway, I was just like thinking about that because I,
I, I think her performance is great in the possession portion.
I also though didn't leave like I left thinking about her
performance, but not thinking about her as like entering a
scream queen category. Does that make sense?
Just because in my mind I'm thinking of like people like
Elizabeth Moss, like Lupita Nuongo, although Lupita Nuongo
isn't a scream queen like totally in in terms of like the.
1/2 of her might be. Yeah, one yeah, but I was I'm
also saying like that that specific like movie has like an
amazing like villain performance that I'm thinking of more, but
still I I think she does like. Yes, Scream Queen wasn't the
best way to have the exercise. I guess I was mostly asking what
are the best like physically and emotionally demanding
performances in the history of horror cinema that usually are
afforded to women in this genre because they're usually the
target of a killer in some kind of way or demon in this
conversation. And I would say Lapita Nuongo's
performance is the most recent one where I was like, that's an
all timer. And that's why this one just
really reminds me of that performance, because there's
only a few that have hit this high for me where the movie ends
up being five stars or 4 1/2 or whatever.
And also like the just I guess, like impressive aspect of doing
that dual performance. Yes, but also, but I get your
hesitancy because of this movie not really being about her, but
to not to push back, but maybe to just like provide like where
my brain was at while walking out of theater.
I was like, I watched a movie where it was about this man's
cautionary tale Bear. It's a cautionary tale about his
own, sort of like ignorance or narcissism, his obsession,
unwilling to see his own obsession.
Unexamined. Yeah, obsession.
And then it was about a woman's tragedy, but it was more of like
this monolithic, like 25 year old modern woman in dating and
friendships tragedy. It was like the tragedy of what
it's like to be a woman in the modern world.
Well, it's like the phenomenon of like, you know, you'll hear
people often say like now, which is recent of like, unfortunately
I'm straight like, have you ever heard a woman say that?
And like, that's so interesting to me.
Like I also study dating, but but that is always interesting
to me because it's like that. You're right, this movie is.
Like a oh people are not going to know what the fuck that
means. You have to explain what that
means by studying dating. Sorry I'm getting my PHDI
actually research like dating. Meaning you talk to a lot of
people who are trying to date people.
Yeah, Well, and they say things like.
That yeah, I, well, really, I'm not researching dating.
I research gender and dating is just like the the case that I'm
looking at. Yeah.
And I, and you're saying a lot of women or men have mentioned
this like unfortunately I am straight and so my options are
limited or they are unfortunate. Like, I mean, they haven't, like
they struggle. Yeah.
Not everyone has like, said something like that, but they're
like, I've seen it also like online too.
Like, I've seen a lot of people just, like, talk about that when
they're talking about like, their sexuality.
I know what you mean, but yeah, I don't think I think
importantly this movie. I think in another writer's
hands it would have been like Bear sort of the hero because he
ends up committing suicide and letting Nikki out.
But I think importantly, the movie ends with her waking up
screaming and all of her friends around her are dead.
Sarah is like brutalized naked in the next room.
Her guy, the guy she was in a sort of like quasi relationship
with, we're hooking up with, was shot in the face.
And then Bear is like dying in front of her, dead in front of
her. And she sort of, I assumed,
passively lived through all that in the mind of this demon or
possession or whatever. So she sort of probably knew
about most of it, I guess. I don't know though.
I mean like she like wakes up from it.
And kind of look shocked by her surroundings.
So maybe she's only sort of conscious sometimes.
I guess my question for you, when talking about the end of
this movie, we skipped a lot, but that's OK, is did you note
how the audience, half our audience laughed at her
screaming because of the absurdity of it?
And also, did you notice how the half of our audience was like
dead silent? And not because I don't think
they disliked it, but because maybe they were experiencing the
end of the movie very differently, because then the
movie kind of plays with a song. Laughing at it.
Oh, I forgot about the song. There's like music playing.
She's screaming at the this the insanity of what just happened
at the end of this movie. It's a cathartic moment.
It's the rhythm and release that Zach Crager and Jordan Peele
talk about so much, and this filmmaker who also came from
comedy as well, Curry Barker, that it's a very similar trick
to manipulate the audience into a laugh that it is into.
A scare relief moment at the end.
Yeah, there's a good, there's a cathartic experience in both
comedies and horror, and this moment had both of those
feelings. But I just thought it was
interesting to hear a sort of a Rorschach test the audience and
their instant reaction to the end, because I got really like,
sad. And that's what made me think
about the movie as five stars for me, because I was watching
the whole thing is like a sort of heightened absurd, you know,
Cure meets Hereditary meets 500 Days of Summer.
And then the movie was like, oh, my God, this was a fucking
nightmare for this, this woman who we never really got to spend
time with, but it felt like we did at the same time.
And I was, but I was also covering my face for like 30
minutes of the movie when she was like on screen when she had
like the vase of flowers in front of her face.
When she kind of like. Knelt, kneeled over next to him.
Yeah, I like there are moments like that where I was like I
didn't get to always see where Nikki was.
Yes. There are a few things I
definitely want to talk about though before we end our
conversation. But I think in terms of like the
laughing at the end, like people's laughing reaction to
her screaming, I think they were just like, laughing at the like
absurdity of like waking up. Yeah.
To all of this like this disgusting ass like house that
is like a shrine. Like I think at one point you
leaned over to me like it's like the Helga, like Hey Arnold
shrine and there like come to life and just like all of her
best friends, like being dead. Like I just it feels like that
end, like you're talking about that people who are in comedy
and then direct horror, like a a crager, like appeal, right, like
are able to to do at the end where there is like a little bit
of a humor to an absurdity. So I I think when people were
laughing at it, they were doing it for that reason.
I mean, I guess they could be like laughing, but I don't.
I didn't get that that that vibe.
Yeah. Oh, well, yeah, I guess I don't
know. I guess it depends.
Like when you hear men laugh at like watching a woman be like
going through this experience and being like, this is so
fucked up, you know what I mean? Like then I kind of get worried.
But like, again, that's not, I'm not going to discredit this
movie and what it's doing because there's like a potential
bad media literacy thing going on here, but.
But I mean, no, I mean it's always fair to question the
laugh. I it's definitely like something
that we often talk about for horror movies, like they're, it
kind of like almost invites laugh for like certain audiences
who are like viewing it in a more exploitative way.
Like they're viewing it for the torture porn aspect of it.
But which like, I think also there were moments like seeing
the friend that she brought back to the house who was like
faceless and like mutilated, but and like naked sitting in this
chair. That also felt like there were
moments of the film that felt like just like.
Like a man made it. Yeah, exactly.
Like just still. Hearts of Bear made the movie.
Still torture porn adjacent, like still.
Yeah. Anyway, so.
So yeah. But I think that what I wanted
to talk about before we left were the certain things that I
did think we're good about, like the the interesting commentary
on monogamy being horror. I think like 1 There are certain
movies that do a really good job and I'm like blinking on them,
but that make feeling like you're living in a suburban
home, like kind of horrific, like you're trapped in a space,
you know? And this movie did that really
well. I.
Saw the TV glow. I was very good about that.
I was thinking like, I've like said this before, but like
Gasper, no ways like Vortex, but that's like age that's more so
like aging and feeling like you're like trapped in your
home. Yeah, but Scream is about this.
It's a satire and suburban. Yeah, but I, but I mean like
specifically like making it feel like there's this like, you
know, a lot of horror movies do this in terms of making the
suburban into horror. But I mean like specifically
like making the interior like into the Helga Shrine, like into
like basically it becomes like more and more like dark and you
feel trapped in this space. And I think that was like, yeah,
I feel like that was an interesting thing to do with
monogamy. And it was successful to do that
where it felt like it was the world was like closing in on
Bear and Nicky basically, because they were like on this
one track. And and and basically it was
like centered around the idea of her doing things that like, we
often hear about, like, to the credit of the movie as being
like romantic, right? I'm like her being like, I
can't, you know, wait for you to get home, essentially.
But like literalizing that where she just doesn't move and like
like. It's good writing.
Goes to the bathroom on the floor and like there's all this
like abject shit around like her just like standing in one place
like so so there's that. There's also you brought up like
the idea of her that they're watching a movie in the first
couple days. I think right that she is
possessed and. They play like it's not.
A hill The first few days of their relationship, they're
making pancakes together, they're watching movies, she's
watching him. Exactly.
They do the kind of romantic comedy montage right of them,
like falling in love, where she's like turning to him while
they're watching a movie and he keeps turning her head back to
the screen and she's turning to him and.
They're having sex and she's like, very clearly like, like
faking these, like, loud, like, screams.
Yes, yeah, that was well done too.
Yeah. So like I think there are a lot
of like, just like things that were smart, like smartly
observed. And then like, let's literalize
like, why is that romantic? You know what I mean?
Like, and, and, and then that adds to this idea of like kind
of this feeling of like suffocation, but also at the
again, like she's possessed. But in terms of the metaphor,
like it's at the they're feeling suffocated because they are in a
relationship where it's like almost considered like cute to
be jealous or possessive of someone.
That's what it's playing with, right?
This idea that he would have loved before if Nikki was
jealous of Sarah because Sarah likes him, but now it's like
turned into like something that is like physically violent,
right, Instead of just like symbolically violent.
And so like I thought like the movie was doing interesting
things with that. Ultimately though, I just felt
like, I don't know, I think to my like original relationship to
the dread inducing movies. The tone was just like, so like
overly present for me, even though there were a lot of like
funny moments and like scary moments too that felt, you know,
when her, like, face was changing when she was standing
in the corner. Yeah, what was that?
That's what I thought she was like, possessed by this like
demon thing. Did they do something?
In post Or was that her doing something with her face?
No, I think it was post. It looked post right because it
looked like her face was morphing.
Yeah, it did look. Like that in the dark, for
people who don't know what I'm talking about, it was when she's
like, oh, and again, like watching him sleep, like that's
like, but. When she starts crying and she's
like, I don't like my dreams. Oh yeah, I.
That that was the only moment in the movie I got a little
emotional. I didn't get teary eyed or
anything, but I got like which I I typically do in in movies that
play with my emotions in this way, But I did get emotional
like in a very just if, if I felt very uncomfortable, very
uncomfortable. Yeah, the movie was I, and I
think it was successful, like in that way of exploring monogamy.
Like in that way. Apparently violent.
The like the like healthy masculine obsession in that way,
like so, but ultimately like I just I still feel the same about
it. Again, it's like very
interesting to talk about because it because it was like
considered right. But at the same time, like for
me as an experience with a movie, it's just not at the top
of like what I enjoy. I enjoy a cult movie.
I hear you. I guess I was just really
impressed by turning the sad boy that so many movies romanticize
into somebody who is basically like the anti consent demon
himself. Like he just really doesn't.
He feels like he deserves somebody who will.
What's so bad about? Yeah, unconditionally.
Want to be with him at any second?
Right. He's on a spectrum from Brad to
Kyle. Like, yeah.
For sure, And I'm just like impressed by that, that choice
to make that decision. Is it like opportunistic,
considering how clearly everybody's so dumb with the sad
boy online? Sure, but I mean, nobody else
fucking did it. So like I think, or at least I
haven't seen a movie do it this well.
So yeah, very, very, very impressed by that it.
Was like a modern like Stepford Wives.
Yeah, by by. Yeah, I guess from, I don't know
who separate, who wrote separate wives, but yeah.
But I don't know if it was a man or a woman, but you can
certainly feel like this was written by a man.
OK. Anything else from the movie?
Did we miss anything else? The party scene, that was very
talk TO me. The.
Work climate at the phone place. Something we didn't mention is
they're like 20 year olds. They're.
Yeah. I was.
I didn't know their age. Because they kept talking about
high school and I thought maybe they were all like right out of
high school and then like still essentially like living at home.
But it was confusing because the like, Bear got a house from his
grandmother, right? Which I mean, I guess I could
happen like right out of. I thought they they just
graduated college. That's what I thought.
They were looking for a job and they were at that place in the
meantime. Oh, and then the friend who?
The other friend, Sarah. She was applying to colleges.
Yeah. OK, so they just out of high
school? I don't know.
Well, I, I know I had thought maybe like they were taking like
there it was a year out or something.
Sure. A gap year, yeah.
Oh, you mean? They're a year out.
Well, but I don't. But I also don't know because
they all, like, lived in their own apartment.
Yeah. And like, would they be able to,
you're out of high school to be able to afford their own
apartment? And it didn't seem like they
like, it seemed like they were living in like pretty nice
places, like. I just like that we don't know.
Like, wait, the yeah, wait, the the guy who's sleeping with
Nikki, which we didn't talk about that reveal.
He's in the basement of his parents house.
Oh, I thought he was in like, I thought that was like a sort of
like open floor plan single family home.
OK. So this movie's impressive
because it is doing this thing where it's like these are, it's
the euphoria thing. These are 16 to 30 year olds.
This is they. Apply to.
Everybody playing a high school. Yeah, yeah.
But it kind of works in this case because it is commenting on
a very particular 30 and under relationship mold.
So it works, Yeah. Anything else?
I think that's it. I mean, we, we did talk about
the the. Reveal of the boyfriend or
whatever the guy she's hooking up with.
Yeah, we did talk about the party scene, but like, in
particular when she's reading out that monologue, she was very
scary and like. I want to.
You were saying like she changed voices in a way that didn't feel
like over the top. Several, yeah, several times I'd
want to re listen to his monologue to the waitress at the
beginning of the movie. And I want to re listen to her
monologue to in that party scene.
Because I bet they spell out the thesis of the film pretty well
about his view of romance being about obsession and her view of
romance being more about yearning.
I think that is like what they were trying to speak to.
But maybe I. Could be wrong.
I mean I think they did a good job at the opening, at least
from what I remember of his like speech to her was like you were
always there. For me, it was like playing on
the idea of like, when you ask like a man in a heterosexual
relationship, like what, why do you love, you know, your wife or
your girlfriend so much? And they're like, well, she just
makes me better. Like all the responses are about
them. Like, she's always there for me.
Like, you know, And so I, I think it was like playing on
that, but I don't remember her speech because I was just so
freaked out, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I was.
I was terrified as well. OK, extra credits.
I already gave mine to Indy Navaretti as Nikki.
I am, I feel confident in saying that this actress is going to be
in a lot of shit. Hollywood is going to, I think
probably cast her in a lot of shit like a Mikey Madison.
Kind of level actress. Do you feel so Sydney coded too?
Did you already say that Sydney? Like Sydney, Scream Sydney.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Neve Campbell.
Yeah, she like feels like her. My extra credit is going to the
one wish Willow. I really like like you were
saying, it's it feels like iconic in this horror movie.
I love how the the sound like I can still like picture it.
I'm not going to like sing it around, but it's in my mind
still. It feels very scary, but it
feels like it it is actually like a true invention.
And like you said, it wasn't like overly, I guess like
explored in terms of the supernatural elements of it,
like it was used for a grounded purpose, but it was still it
still had a kind of like scary element to it.
And I just really like. That and I like that they went
for it when the friend was like I want a billion dollars and the
money came from the. Ceiling drops to his knees.
Yeah. And I do like the idea in my
head cannon that Nikki gets to wake up, leave the house and see
his car outside with a billion dollars.
And just like now, she's good for life.
Maybe. Like that would be nice.
I mean, she's going to get accused of murder of all those
people in that room 'cause she shot him and then killed her.
Yeah, Yeah. I do think though like to that
that's more so I guess like my movie making extra credit.
But I think like to our conversation and maybe to give
the movie more credit, the extra credit is obviously like doing
an interesting horror of like monogamy.
And men aren't shit like the bear guy and his friend, the
friend him literally telling the friend because bear at least
does try at the end. Like hey, if you just do this,
Nicki will be saved. Sarah's already dead and he's
like, well then I want a billion dollars.
Like that tells you everything you need to know about the
spectrum of men and dating at the moment.
So that was the extra credits of obsession.
My favorite movie of the year just jumped right ahead of Bone
Temple for me. Which.
It's. Saying a lot because I loved the
Bone Temple. Both 5 Star Movies for me.
Not above Jimmy fingers. I love the bone temple.
By the way, I think Bone Temple is like Street.
I think it's on Netflix or wait, it's on.
It's on something. It's on something.
Go watch The Bone Temple. Go watch my favorite horror
movie of the year. Also, apparently 28 years later,
3 has been confirmed. I saw something about that, so
that's potentially happening. That would be great because the
second one didn't make much money.
We're going to be back, not in May for anything.
I think maybe the Boots Riley film.
Hopefully we'll see what movie? That's the Ocean's 11 heist
movie with Keke Palmer where they're stealing like fashion
clothes from Demi Moore. Speaking of Demi Moore, the
substance, Moore is nominated for an Oscar for a horror film.
Can you see Indy Navaretti being nominated for an Oscar for this
movie, or is it a little bit too much?
I think it was a little different with Demi Moore
because Demi Moore is. Like an icon in Hollywood the
past. She was like being nominated for
other things I don't know that the Academy would like.
She's being nominated for GI James.
He got this movie. In my heart, yeah.
OK, we'll be back probably in late May or early June on
Patreon. Right now we are dropping speed
in The Mummy on A+B movies. We just did The notebook.
This is Spielberg time right
now, so we are re watching a lot of Spielberg's movies.
We just watched War of the Worlds again last night because
we're covering that in June. We are covering ET and close
Encounters of the Third Kind this month at the end of May on
Patreon, which is exciting. And then we'll probably end June
with another Alien film to just, I don't know, end our disclosure
day. Prep.
With arrival, which is really exciting so check us out on
Patreon, the description for that for free members right now
you have access to like a dozen episodes also don't forget to
follow us on Tiktok. I've been.
We should have said this at the top.
Oh my God yeah. Trey just made a Tiktok about
obsession. This episode's short, though.
Yeah, and the director's dad, right, commented on it.
I didn't realize, yeah, he commented on my Tiktok and on my
Instagram, and I was like, who is this?
And I I was like, our last name looks familiar to the director.
I'm like, that's the same last name.
Let me do a quick Google. And yeah, it's his dad.
I'm so sad that Tiktok. Proud father.
Yeah, I'm so sad that TikTok didn't like which, by the way,
everything that we have said is stamped by his.
His father was like, you got it, Like you understood the movie.
That was like, that is accurate, an accurate analysis of the
screenplay. But I hate the TikTok like
stopped your videos because for people who don't know the the
TikTok creator behind the scenes, sometimes if you don't
like post a video everyday, it will freeze your your video at
like a certain cap of views. It won't push it to the
algorithm. And so I.
Guess that's. I think that's what I mean.
Obviously all of your other ones.
When you're posting every day, we notice that you're getting a
bunch of views. Yeah, I feel embarrassed to be
talking about social media like this.
On this podcast. You've also TikTok.
I will do. I think Trey's doing a great
job. I'm.
Doing good the past two months, but.
Like go watch his TikTok on obsession.
But if I called customer service on TikTok I think a man would
answer and you would hear my sole pre TikTok screaming into a
microphone. All right, peace, bye.