1 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:20,920 The hello and welcome to the extra credits of Spike Lee's 2 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,760 Highest to Lowest. I'm Trey. 3 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,320 And I'm Kelsey. Feeling a little nasally right 4 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,000 now. Yeah, you, you sounded like 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,480 you're getting over your sickness still. 6 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,760 Yeah, it's OK. Yeah, for those who don't know, 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,120 didn't listen to our last episode. 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,040 We haven't been talking about any movies on the main feed 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,160 since Weapons because we started our jobs. 10 00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:39,760 We work in education back in the classrooms. 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,640 The kids got me sick. I've been out of it for two 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,120 weeks at least, so I'm still recovering. 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,040 So I apologize for my voice on this episode, but I'm excited 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,240 talking with you about movies, coming back with a Spike Lee 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,960 film, which is really cool. This is Spike Lee's fifth 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,400 collaboration with Denzel Washington, one of our favorite 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,560 actors. This is their first movie since 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,120 Inside Man back in 2006, which is wild. 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,920 That's a movie that we're covering this month alongside Do 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,800 the Right Thing on Patreon, which is very, very cool. 21 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,600 Highest to lowest is Spikes reinterpretation of Akira 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,200 Kurosawa's masterpiece High and Low from the 60s. 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,000 That's a film we actually just reviewed on Patreon in 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,840 preparation for this episode today. 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,440 And for a limited time right now, we're unlocking that High 26 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,040 and Low episode for free members. 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,320 So if you head into the description of this episode, you 28 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,080 can sign up as a free member on our Patreon and listen to that 29 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,560 conversation. I really recommend that episode, 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,600 mostly because I think it'll provide some pretty useful 31 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,600 context for our feelings today on Spikes Movie. 32 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,560 Yeah, and I think that's actually a helpful episode, 33 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,880 though, in particular in relationship to highest to 34 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,040 lowest, just because I know this is not a remake, right? 35 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,840 I think Spike is calling it like a reinterpretation, A 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,320 reimagination. I get it. 37 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,560 He's very. Much out there being like, not a 38 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,240 remake. There's a great interview with 39 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,160 Bill Simmons where he's like, it's not a remake. 40 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,560 Yeah, yeah, I get it too. But like, there is a reason why 41 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:10,160 this movie in particular is worthy of revisiting, right, so 42 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,200 many years later. And that's the the thematic 43 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,640 source text and class commentary that's so interesting in the 44 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:18,360 original. And during that conversation, 45 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,440 you know, we talked a lot about that and how it was so like 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,960 smart and how we move throughout the the world of high and low. 47 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,680 And so I was really pumped, you know, to see like how Spike Lee 48 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,160 was going to to do this and like reimagine this world, obviously, 49 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,760 like with his specific style and film language. 50 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,040 But in that episode, we also talked about like, I don't think 51 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,000 he could mess it up. Like there would really only be 52 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,400 one thing that would happen, which is like sympathizing too 53 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:49,120 much with the wealthy man at the center of this and not doing a 54 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,920 maybe a good enough job of like flipping that, as I think high 55 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:55,760 and low does at the at the end scene there. 56 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,720 And that happens, I mean, which I was kind of surprised about. 57 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,400 Yeah. And, you know, that's not 58 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,800 something that is like a part of Inside Man or Do the Right 59 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,560 Thing, which we'll cover more in depth like on those episodes 60 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,920 about why, you know, those are some of his like best movies. 61 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:21,400 But I was just surprised to to see that in this movie about 62 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:26,320 class in 2025. And capitalism through a Western 63 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,000 lens, too. I thought there was a lot of 64 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,880 potential here to do some interesting, like subversive 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,960 twists on the kind of village versus villager ethos of those 66 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,240 Kurosawa movies of that period. And especially in that film that 67 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,160 we explored on that episode, I thought it was interesting to 68 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,000 take an American lens to that commentary, to be like, everyone 69 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,720 in the United States wants to be a villager, but nobody wants to 70 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,600 be a part of a village. And really put Denzel 71 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,880 Washington's character at the center of that moral dilemma. 72 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:58,880 And what would a wealthy kind of business tycoon person actually 73 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,120 do in that situation in the United States? 74 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,840 And to see where this movie goes to. 75 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,480 And I don't want to hit spoilers quite yet. 76 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,280 I was genuinely shocked by going to the second act of this film. 77 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,600 So we'll get to all of that because obviously, clearly, 78 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,680 neither of us really loved highs to lowest. 79 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,279 I think there's a lot of, like, stylistic flourishes that we 80 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,800 enjoyed. There's some good comedy, some 81 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,800 really good Denzel, which I'll get to in a second, and some 82 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,160 other good supporting performances. 83 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:29,040 But was really surprised by the decision to sympathize with who 84 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,080 what you're talking about. Let's start on a positive note. 85 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,080 Yeah, we're always asking why doesn't Hollywood make movies 86 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,800 like Spike Lee's Inside Man? We always ask it on the podcast. 87 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,720 And we know we really want movies like Collateral, Point 88 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,800 Break, Man on Fire, the firm, elevated, propulsive thrillers 89 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,320 made for and directed for adults, about characters or 90 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,600 people on the edge. You know what I mean? 91 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,880 And Nora just won best picture, which is certainly a movie about 92 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,960 people on the edge and being pushed to the edge. 93 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:01,800 And it is a thriller and it is a dark comedy. 94 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,160 It's a blad of tones and genres. And it's pretty fantastically 95 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,800 kind of like ambitious movie following, you know, Ani on that 96 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,320 journey. And I'm using a movie as an 97 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,520 example because I think we're we're entering a new or old 98 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,400 territory, kind of revisiting in the late 2000s, early kind of 99 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,600 early to late 90s territory of movies directed at adults about 100 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,040 messy people. And I love that. 101 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,480 And Spike Lee is returning us to that space with highest to 102 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,280 lowest right now in theaters and in the limited theaters, but 103 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,240 going to be on streaming on Apple Plus very soon this 104 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,360 Friday, September 5th. And Darren Aronofsky, who is an 105 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,720 otor in his own right, not to the level of Spike Lee, 106 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,560 obviously, but of the last 15 years, he's a provocateur, you 107 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,760 know, mother. And Black Swan is out with 108 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,440 Austin Butler and Zoe Kravitz's Caught Stealing, which is a 109 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,560 crime thriller, action comedy, kind of another movie that we're 110 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,960 sort of asking for a lot like after hours adjacent meets like 111 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,200 a Coen Brothers kind of energy or trying to be at least. 112 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,280 And neither of these movies really work to me. 113 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,680 High, still lowest and caught Stealing, but I'm happy they 114 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,400 exist. I'm happy that we're returning 115 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,120 to this genre. It makes me feel excited about 116 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,440 finding a balance of studios not just feeding us like superhero 117 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,520 content, which I do enjoy, but obviously we've been inundated 118 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,600 with it. And it's kind of diluted that 119 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,640 genre to the point where we're all kind of sick of the 120 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,480 stateless universe of superheroes. 121 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,760 And we want movies that are directed at adults that are 122 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,280 dramatic and thrilling and entertaining and, and can be 123 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,240 about messy, complex people. You know, we just watched and 124 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,840 covered Dog Day Afternoon, Sidney Lumet's masterpiece and 125 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:38,040 Al Pacino's legendary performance on Patreon just the 126 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,920 other day. And we were talking about how 127 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,640 like, who is the Sidney Lumet? And we're like, we don't know 128 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,480 who who our current Sidney Lumet is because studios aren't 129 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,320 funding that person, right? That person is out there wanting 130 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,840 to make movies and they're being asked to make Captain America 131 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:54,640 Six, you know what I mean? And that kind of sucks. 132 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,800 And so it is. I'm excited that highest to 133 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,560 lowest exist if that makes sense, even though it is like A 134 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,040 twist on IP. Yeah, I, I like in, in terms of 135 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,560 like the direction we're going, like you're saying, right. 136 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:09,920 We also talked about like John QA, hugely underrated movie and 137 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,120 Denzel performance. OK. 138 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:12,960 Shout out our John Q heads out there. 139 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,240 Yeah, which is a a really great commentary on like capitalism 140 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,760 and and the healthcare system in the United States. 141 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,800 But yeah, like, I, I feel that we are so hungry for these 142 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,760 movies that have something to say but also aren't, I mean, are 143 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,840 also fun but aren't like Ambulance, you know? 144 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:39,560 And excuse me, LA Ants. And we love Ambulance. 145 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,480 There's a place for the Michael Bay, Jake Gyllenhaal, kind of 146 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,920 like dog whistle movies. Like there's a place for those 147 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,600 films. And I'm happy to have them when 148 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,520 you want them. But it is nice to have movies 149 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,560 that are more elevated, genre pulpy films that are exciting, 150 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,360 entertaining and also can be, like, smart. 151 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,760 Yeah. Exactly. 152 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,080 Yeah, I think that highest to lowest is an interesting example 153 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,400 of like a really interesting like source text of having 154 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,520 something to say and then at the last like kind of stretch of 155 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,800 this takes a a weird turn. And yeah, I mean, I caught 156 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,000 stealing. Doesn't really have much to say, 157 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:19,960 but. It tries to have like an 158 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,240 emotionally deep character arc, Frost and Butler, but he's doing 159 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,440 a lot of that work. It's always Zoe Kravitz, but 160 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,840 yeah, it's more of an action comedy route. 161 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:31,720 I don't know. It's not a very good movie. 162 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,000 Heist to lowest is better than caught stealing in my opinion. 163 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,200 I just wanted to bring up the genre the the kind of movies 164 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,960 made for and package for adults that are kind of messy because I 165 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,679 think we are entering into a new space and Spike Lee kind of 166 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,800 being on the forefront is very exciting to me, even if I don't 167 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,800 love this movie. It's been reported that Timothy 168 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,600 Chalamet is going to do a bank heist movie with James Mangold 169 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,040 next year, which is insane. Very excited for that. 170 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,320 Marty Supreme feels like a return to Catch Me If You Can 171 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:56,840 era. Like kind of. 172 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,480 Spielberg, which is making phone calls from the hotel room. 173 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,280 Yeah. To your girlfriend Gwyneth 174 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,720 Paltrow and Ridley Scott apparently is tackling a speed 175 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,720 Keanu Reeves Sandra Bullock style thriller called Bomb OK 176 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,480 Ridley, which I'm hyped for. Austin Butler and Jeremy Allen 177 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,320 White are coming together to play a kind of Heat. 178 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Yeah, I was going to say character. 179 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,720 Dynamic of a, of a crime guy being chased down by a detective 180 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,880 I don't know who's who so that's all very exciting I, I, I think 181 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,120 we can be only. People, they're like the Al 182 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,880 Pacino De Niro. That's interesting. 183 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,200 So they're mid budget thrillers making a comeback. 184 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,600 That's all I wanted to say. I think that's very, very cool 185 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:41,720 and I think people should be excited. 186 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,920 About that and I think, you know, it's actually a really 187 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,040 interesting example to to view something like John Wick Wick, 188 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,320 which I love as like an in between territory of this of 189 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,800 going from the superhero movies into action because it still 190 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,240 feels like John Wick is also superhero adjacent. 191 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,560 Yeah, it feels like action movies and comedy movies were 192 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,840 literally like Co opted by the superhero industry, like Die 193 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:11,520 Hard or, I don't know, The Hangover turned into like Iron 194 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:12,400 Man. Do you know what I mean? 195 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,720 It is very confusing, but it does feel like we have balance 196 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,440 in the world. Everything is hopefully becoming 197 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,760 right as we talk about this Apple TV Plus movie. 198 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:25,560 So some other things that really work in this movie. 199 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:28,480 Obviously Denzel Washington, as always, very magnetic. 200 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:30,600 Yeah. And I'm going to try to, you 201 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,240 know, Denzel Washington recently said in an interview, I think it 202 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,280 was recently, that his name is actually Denzel Washington. 203 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,440 And he kind of just let tabloids and people like it at Academy 204 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,720 Awards words ceremony say his name is Denzel and he just ran 205 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,320 with it. So I'm going to go back and 206 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,000 forth between Denzel and Denzel and I. 207 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,720 Apologize in the hopes to say. To recorrect it, Yeah, because I 208 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,320 even hear Spike Lee call him Denzel. 209 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,720 But like, he did an interview with Bill Simmons on The Ringer, 210 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:56,920 which is an incredible interview. 211 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,040 I recommend people check it out. And he's talking about him as 212 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Denzel and then he'll talk about him as Denzel. 213 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,040 And I'm like, I'm probably going to find myself doing that today. 214 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,320 I'm just putting that out there because I want to get his name 215 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,680 right. He carries this movie, 216 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,120 obviously, but Jeffrey Wright is also pretty good in this. 217 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,120 A$AP Rocky gets a couple surprising great performance and 218 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,280 stylistically it's Spike Lee and he's got his DP Matthew 219 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,520 Libertique and their cinematography is pretty 220 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,240 awesome, especially in the way this movie opens in the. 221 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,720 I love the opening here. The shots at the cityscape. 222 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,560 I was so excited when we opened the movie this way. 223 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:32,640 We have like, oh, what a beautiful morning. 224 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,480 You know, I'm not always on board with the classical music 225 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,320 in Spike Lee movies. I think it works in certain 226 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,720 movies, like like he got game, like. 227 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,680 I think that's an interesting use of. 228 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,000 Like. Different tones, right 229 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,440 happening. And then also I think in Do the 230 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,560 Right Thing, he has some classical. 231 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,480 It's a little bit like more understated in those scenes. 232 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,200 Yeah, I think people think Public Enemy when they think do 233 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,160 the right thing, but there's a lot of, like, dialogue 234 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,320 sequences, whether it be between Pinot and his dad and the 235 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,040 pizzeria or Spike and Pinot to the side about like how Pinot is 236 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:07,800 being a racist and they're like playing. 237 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,280 There's like this subtle classical music or jazz music 238 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,440 playing underneath the dialogue that in highest to lowest feels 239 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,760 a little bit more abrasive and kind of in your face. 240 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,800 I think also there's a lot of like pacing things that come 241 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,240 with that. And also I think interesting 242 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,160 conflicts between Jeffrey Wright's character and Denzel's 243 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,280 character that feel off because I start to sense where it's 244 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 going thematically that I'm like, wait, now the classical 245 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,520 music feels strange because we're on the side of like this 246 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,640 wealthy person more so. And it's not really looking at 247 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,040 the contradiction. I I thought it was going to, but 248 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,960 then I was like, oh wait, are we not? 249 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,040 Yeah, I think. Spike has a point of view, and 250 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,600 he's a moralistic filmmaker, for better and for worse. 251 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,760 And in this. And so it was like Martin 252 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,600 Scorsese, his peer, They're both like that. 253 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,600 Yeah. And so he certainly has a lot of 254 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:02,040 opinions about what he wants out of, like, successful people in 255 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,680 capitalism today and the kind of like, class that they represent. 256 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,040 Yeah. So there's a lot to say. 257 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,480 We'll. Talk more about that because 258 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,840 also, like I understand how Spike Lee is coming at like 259 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,000 Denzel's character with the idea of like a responsibility lens. 260 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,880 But that is I think like, you know, obviously I I I just don't 261 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,200 think that is like a interesting take completely when you have a 262 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,160 movie about class to this level and it's the main commentary of 263 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,960 your movie. But anyway, yeah, yeah. 264 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,080 So we'll talk about that. But the opening here like gave 265 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,640 me, you know, like such high hopes for this because we have 266 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:37,280 oh, what a beautiful morning playing. 267 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,520 It's like this really romanticized, beautiful opening, 268 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,840 but yet at the kind of like bottom of the the image or like 269 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,240 the foundation of this image is like the high rise, right? 270 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,200 And the rest of the the city, which is such at the core of 271 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:01,000 like high and low right of the, the person who we, you know, 272 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:06,080 meet at the end, who isn't like the main character of the movie, 273 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,880 have this monologue in high and low about like what the, the 274 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,320 physical, you know, like difference of being like high up 275 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,480 right in this high rise verse, like low and forgotten, like, 276 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,800 you know, just in terms of like the actual geography of where 277 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,840 people are living or the physical locations. 278 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,080 The architecture representing the class Immobility. 279 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,080 Exactly. Yeah. 280 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,480 And like I so I was pumped at the at the beginning for this 281 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,440 because like I was like, oh, this is interesting. 282 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,400 I love how it's bright and and I liked the idea of that kind of 283 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,640 like hiding something. Immediately I thought of, you 284 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,680 know, high and low, obviously, but bondage and host parasite 285 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,960 too, which is also inspired by high and low and using 286 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,080 architecture and geography to represent wealth inequality and 287 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,400 class immobility. And how that can lead to like 288 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,080 make to make people of an underclass or a forgotten class, 289 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,600 a working class to make radical decisions to protect oneself, to 290 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,360 survive, or in some cases just to act out or lash out against 291 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,760 those who have like consolidated power and wealth and resources. 292 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,480 So lots to say about that. The production design in this 293 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,720 movie, the cinematography to the production design in this movie 294 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,240 is really solid. Washingtons home, I think he 295 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,000 plays a character named King, is a David King who basically is a 296 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,840 massive high rise home and he lives in what feels like a 297 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,560 museum. It's sort of like showcase of 298 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,560 black success. An artist all around him, He's 299 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,480 like speaking to them as if they are these mythic figures and 300 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,440 asking them for advice throughout the movie as he goes 301 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,160 through his moral dilemma that we'll get into. 302 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,840 And Spike really leans into that kind of iconographic feel of 303 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,080 these legendary black artists surrounding Washington's 304 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,240 character and what he feels. Going back to your point, his 305 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,960 responsibility is to, to help this missing child or kidnapped 306 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,640 child. And Spike makes some really 307 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,280 interesting choices with the editor to add these symbols in 308 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,960 to the, the kind of pans and the wipes of, of the edits. 309 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,920 And it gives the film a really kind of rhythmic feel. 310 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,760 And I think the film language, the imagery, the, the texture of 311 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,680 the, of the production design and also the architecture that 312 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,560 you're talking about are really powerful because they do speak 313 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,080 to the class commentary that you really want out of the movie 314 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,760 that you can feel the movie in the screenplay in particular 315 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,240 sort of wrestling with. And we'll come back to that 316 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,720 screenplay because ultimately, I think the first hour, basically 317 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,360 first hour and a half of this movie, if we're going to 318 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,480 negatives now, is pretty weightless. 319 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,200 Like it feels kind of stateless even when the moral dilemma is 320 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,440 revealed. And we're going to learn more 321 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,880 into spoilers now. So spoiler warning if you have 322 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,200 not seen the movie, but the first hour and a half to this 323 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,160 film sort of has a streaming movie flatness to me, which I 324 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,080 thought was so disappointing. And it's such a let down after 325 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,960 that great opening of that, that shot of New York City in 326 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,840 Brooklyn. And I've seen some critics, you 327 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,800 know, forgive that the first hour is kind of boring. 328 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,280 And a lot of critics have projected on a meta commentary 329 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,359 onto the film as they're as they're forgiving that first 330 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:08,680 hour. And they're saying that, you 331 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,119 know, Spike is making a movie sort of about himself. 332 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,800 And what he feels is his own responsibility is this legendary 333 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,119 black filmmaker in an industry that does not give people of 334 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,839 color many resources to make movies or studio capital to make 335 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,079 movies. And I've seen, you know, 336 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,839 positive reviews of high Solo saying that Spike is critiquing 337 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,200 a a streaming era of art of soulless AI. 338 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,000 But that can all be true. But the first 45 minutes are 339 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,320 still particularly really tough. The dramatic dialogue feels 340 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,440 really stilted to me. The the kind of jazzy classical 341 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,480 background music just doesn't work, as you said we talked 342 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:46,720 about. But it kind of feels 343 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,160 distracting. The moral dilemma that 344 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,880 Washington's character faces with with Jeffrey Wright's 345 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,360 character son being actually the child that is kidnapped, the 346 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,680 teenager that's kidnapped and whether or not he should pay 347 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,520 that back and sacrifice him wanting to own back his his, you 348 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,800 know, he wants to buy back his business that he's worked in for 349 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,960 for so long. That's kind of his character 350 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,440 journey of being like, I'm not going to be a kind of tech 351 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,160 musical mogul of this capitalist society. 352 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,280 I'm just going to be like a small business capitalist. 353 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,920 That's like his character journey. 354 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,440 I felt like there could have been more interesting shifts 355 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,680 made in the screenplay that just weren't made. 356 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,400 And that's not me saying I don't like the movie that I'm 357 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,960 watching. I wish it was a different movie. 358 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,160 I just think the choices that were made were really far less 359 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,960 interesting than what the potential was on screen. 360 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 So yeah, I think that first hour is just really, really tough to 361 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,840 get through, especially because that that dilemma isn't as 362 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,360 deepened as I thought it could have been. 363 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,440 Yeah. I mean, I think that there's two 364 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,920 issues kind of like going on. One is the pacing in this first 365 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:48,720 half and kind of really hanging out in the dramatic scenes of 366 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,000 conversations. But you know, the the dilemma is 367 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,360 actually, I feel like being made to be more than it is in terms 368 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:03,760 of like cancel culture speeches or like, or some scenes with 369 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,440 Jeffrey Wright's character where, you know, obviously, 370 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,040 like, it is an interesting dilemma. 371 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:14,160 Like would most people pay, you know, like their life savings 372 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,440 just in general, even if they aren't a millionaire to save 373 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,160 someone else's child? Probably not. 374 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,280 You know, like that is the exactly that's like the bleak 375 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,600 reality and interesting dilemma of the movie and of itself and 376 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,680 in terms of like the commentary on money and capitalism. 377 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,960 Especially in the United States, Yeah, which is more of what the 378 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,520 direction I thought they're going to go in. 379 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:40,920 Yeah, so, but in terms of like the dilemma, the the dramatic 380 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,960 scenes actually don't hit as hard because it feels like in 381 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,680 retrospect, besides the pacing that we that you kind of touched 382 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:55,240 on that we're actually following a story about Denzel's character 383 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,840 trying to like figure out how to use his capital and make things 384 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,680 that matter. And that's interesting, I guess. 385 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,760 But and it's also layered obviously, like in terms of a 386 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,280 movie that is about both race and class in the United States 387 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:17,480 capitalism. But ultimately this is like a 388 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:23,360 movie that or or story that is placed within a larger, I think. 389 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:30,640 A larger comparison, right? Story about class in general. 390 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,520 And so when Denzel's character starts becoming like moralistic 391 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,600 towards A$AP Rocky character right at the end when they like 392 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,120 finally meet face to face, which I'm I'm sure you know, we'll 393 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,880 talk about in a minute. Yeah. 394 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,240 But he starts like using like kind of language around like if 395 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,120 you you worked hard essentially, right, Like myth of meritocracy 396 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,720 rhetoric. And that is when it becomes like 397 00:20:54,720 --> 00:21:01,280 a movie that is actually really strange to be a story about 398 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,560 Denzel's character making art that is meaningful with his 399 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:11,400 capital because of the, the comparison to A$AP Rocky 400 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,480 character. And then also retrospectively to 401 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,080 then Jeffrey Wright's character, where Jeffrey Wright is like 402 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,000 this character who is so thankful that Denzel's character 403 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,000 like decided to spend money to to do this. 404 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,080 And like, obviously he knows because he's close to him, like 405 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,120 how much basically that money means. 406 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:35,000 But also then it becomes a very strange, like class relationship 407 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,880 where Oh yeah, very weird. And, and so, and, and then, you 408 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,480 know, Denzel's character is like kind of like heroic at the end, 409 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,040 which I, I think you could still have a movie. 410 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,720 Again, it's not like here's the movie I wanted to see. 411 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,760 No, like I think I'm just like saying here's actually, you 412 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:56,960 know, totally fair, like balanced critique of the movie 413 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,600 that I actually saw, which is that I don't know that you in a 414 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,480 class in a movie about class want to make like someone who is 415 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,080 the millionaire, you know the. Sympathetic capitalist. 416 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,840 Yeah, yeah. Like the kind of like heroic 417 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,160 character who is telling everyone like, here's how you 418 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,280 can make it to be like me. Do you think it's because Spike 419 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,960 Lee or the screenwriter for that matter, I guess, or other 420 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,720 audiences in general? And I think this, I've seen some 421 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,880 of this online as people have been rewatching or watching for 422 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,120 the first time. High and low interpret high and 423 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:32,440 low to be about a sympathetic millionaire in post war Japan in 424 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,840 the 1960s who is kind of recognized. 425 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,720 Oh, you're saying? Do people misread the original 426 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,760 sources? Did they misunderstand the 427 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,320 source of material? Because I think the biggest 428 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,720 issue with highest to lowest for me is the screenplay. 429 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,720 It's not like I can't even tell what's Spike Lee's vision 430 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,280 honestly verse I see his vision aesthetically, I see the vision 431 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,440 stylistically. I'm not sure thematically 432 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,120 because I've seen him do this, these ideas better in other 433 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,720 movies. So I'm kind of confused while 434 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,160 watching the whole film in terms of his whole career when we're 435 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,880 taking like a meta commentary lens to it. 436 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,720 Totally thought at the end it was going to like flip or 437 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,560 something me. Too right. 438 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,200 Totally. And I think it's more of the 439 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,160 screenplay and I'm not really too familiar with the 440 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,240 screenwriter, but I think it's a pretty rough screenplay in 441 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,520 particular in its structure. If you compare to the original 442 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,360 high and low to give you insight into what makes the original so 443 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,120 effective. Not comparing these two movies 444 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,440 and, and as far as their legacies, but in terms of what 445 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,560 makes the original and it's commentary so effective is that 446 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,280 you know the mate. It makes it clear what the major 447 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,480 mistake of this new movie is really clear, which is that the 448 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,360 this reinterpretation of high and low keeps us basically in 449 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:35,840 one perspective the entire movie. 450 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,200 And that's through the king character. 451 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,520 That's Washington's character in that perspective shift to only a 452 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,280 singular perspective of going through the millionaire and how 453 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,520 he views the world and what he is going through and how he 454 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,640 views his relationship to Jeffrey Wright's character. 455 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,720 And and later ASAP's character becomes critical to the movie, 456 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,720 not really working cinematically or thematically or emotionally 457 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,320 because Kurosawa's high and low builds tension by shifting 458 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,120 perspectives. You start the movie by being in 459 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:06,320 the perspective of the wealthy executives to his like group of, 460 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,880 you know, friends, quote UN quote, but people who become 461 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,280 kind of his enemies by the end of the movie, taking his job 462 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,560 from him. And then it shifts perspective 463 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,560 to all of the cops in a main investigator to literally like, 464 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,720 literally like quite literally all of the cops. 465 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,920 Are just major Japanese city. Drop everything that they're 466 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,960 doing to then protect the wealth of this shoe executive to the 467 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,440 mass media coming out in support of this, you know, shoe 468 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,080 executive. To then the perspective shifting 469 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,800 once again in the third act to being in the lens of this kind 470 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,840 of post war Japanese underclass where we explore poverty and 471 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,200 we're stuck in communities without AC in a crowded urban 472 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,920 decay who have been crushed by poverty and crushed by 473 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,560 addiction. We're literally going through 474 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,360 like alleyways with cops, going through people who are who are 475 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:58,440 passed out and having to self medicate because of like they're 476 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,200 not being any resources or opportunities. 477 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,760 And they're stuck beneath what looks like beneath the city. 478 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:05,800 Kind of speaking to the metaphors of Kurosawa's like, 479 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,280 brilliant, you know, project and screenplay here. 480 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,760 And that's smartly and subtly humanizes that that invisible 481 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,440 class of people that, you know, Bongi and Ho later does a 482 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,760 parasite. And the highest to lowest 483 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,480 screenplay narrows all of those PO VS almost entirely to 484 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,000 Denzel's David King's character, the millionaire. 485 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,520 That's true. I shouldn't realize that. 486 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,040 Yeah. And it changes the entire point 487 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,000 of the the original film and it makes me think that there's just 488 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,760 a misunderstanding of of maybe that original movie. 489 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,320 Yeah. Well, I think the the 490 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,520 interesting thing about like high and low and even highest to 491 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,320 lowest is it's supposed to be kind of like this metaphor, 492 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,000 right? Of quite literally high and low 493 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,640 of like hierarchy, right, class hierarchy. 494 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,400 And so when you like it would be, you know, imagine if we saw 495 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,240 him in the first movie because, you know, there are similar 496 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,120 scenes taking place and it's still like on the same like 497 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,320 thematic thread almost. But imagine we had the 498 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,680 millionaire or like the executive telling the person 499 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,640 who's in poverty and is saying, you know, and this isn't high 500 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,800 and low and a Kurosawa's movie, but this idea of like him saying 501 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,680 like This is why I did it. I basically like have nothing to 502 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,440 live for. And I look up at your high rise 503 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,360 and like I it's not like a jealousy that he's pointing out, 504 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:27,720 right? Like that's not the point of the 505 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,840 of the movie. And it's not like, oh, I did it 506 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,080 for nothing on this. Like, you know, serial killer 507 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,800 esque, you know, character that maybe it's like in a true crime 508 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,560 movie or something that people are fascinated with, But it's 509 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,440 more so this idea that like my, the the place that I live is 510 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,280 like so different from yours. It's freezing in the winter, 511 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,080 it's burning in the summer, like I'm feeling the elements of the 512 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,640 world and up there like you have AC like that's like the whole 513 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,520 kind of thing. And imagine, you know, the the 514 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,840 character in high and low came back at him and was like, well, 515 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,480 you know, have you considered like getting a job? 516 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,360 The millionaire, Yeah. And then also, you know, like, 517 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:09,720 aren't there other ways that you could like, no, the the the 518 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,320 movie is a metaphor. So like, I think I don't want 519 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,280 people to take away that, you know, we there can't be a movie 520 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:22,160 about Denzel's character, you know, like a kind of grappling 521 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,840 with or thinking about like what his place might mean as this 522 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,600 like wealthy person that that that is also a part of the 523 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,520 original source text. But the difference is, is that 524 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,200 he's not, you know, the the wealthy character is not made to 525 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,360 be this like hero because he's a symbol. 526 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:43,880 He's not, you know, necessarily a character. 527 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,760 He's a symbol in high and low for wealth. 528 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,400 Right. That's what's wild to me because 529 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,800 curious always high and low is crafted to expose the rich right 530 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,480 to expose the institutions from media to law enforcement to the 531 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,600 judicial system, helping protect that class of status of people 532 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,280 about how they how they're literally built through like 533 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,160 blueprints of how to drop everything and not even help 534 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,640 people who are like there's a woman in the original high and 535 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,440 low who's dying because she's just been like shot with drugs. 536 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,880 And the cop like goes past her immediately to chase after the 537 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,840 criminal who had stolen the kidnapper, had stolen the money 538 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,040 of this this millionaire just to kind of get that symbolism 539 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,800 across more directly, even though I don't think. 540 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,840 It's like whose lives matter? Right, exactly and how how the 541 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,400 class changes our understanding? Whose justice we're? 542 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,760 Interested in and whose are not and you know that movie reveals 543 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,520 an exploitation and alienation of an underclass where pressure 544 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,040 to act in radical ways. It's not forgiving of like the 545 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,720 kidnappers. Importantly, it's not forgiving 546 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,960 of the the ransom and all of that craziness that unfolds in 547 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,640 that original movie and in this movie. 548 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,040 But the original movie, that kidnapper is making a morally 549 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,600 corrupt decision. But the movie is also 550 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,240 unapologetically anti capitalist versus this highest to lowest 551 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,040 remake is not anti capitalist at all. 552 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,440 It's really just like being like there are more respectable forms 553 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,920 of capitalism. And that's what makes me kind of 554 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,080 confused about this film because, you know, David King at 555 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,280 the end of this movie and we can get into specifics and I want to 556 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,440 do a plot breakdown in a second, but he turns to making his own 557 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,280 kind of like small business at the end of the movie. 558 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,000 He moves away from wanting to buy back this massive kind of 559 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,360 industry and doesn't want to be this tycoon and doesn't want to 560 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,480 be quote UN quote King anymore. And but and he and he tries to 561 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,240 like hire this woman who is like 600 Instagram followers because 562 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,360 now he's like a benevolent guy. And it just feels like after 563 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,400 that, you know, huge conversation with him in ASAP, 564 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,280 which is a really impressively technically well made sequence 565 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,640 where like the mirror the. Performances are so great, so 566 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,080 it's captivating. We'll talk about the same. 567 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,280 It's so judgmental of ASAP's character. 568 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,520 It's so, it's so reductive of quote UN quote, the young felons 569 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,560 of the world. It turns ASAP's character or 570 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,040 what he's supposed to represent in our modern world into a 571 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,200 caricature essentially. Or I thought at least, which was 572 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,880 really surprising because this is it's Spike Lee. 573 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,000 It's a Spike Lee movie, right? And so that's not something I've 574 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,000 ever seen from him, I don't think. 575 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,000 And so the fact that that character is kind of like a 576 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,440 grifter is being criticized as somebody who didn't didn't 577 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,160 really work to become successful. 578 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,720 It's just very strange to me. And I think, you know, there are 579 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,160 critics who love highest to lowest who are saying a lot of 580 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,880 great things about it. Like, I think you could pull 581 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,280 from this movie that it is about what is the what is the 582 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,280 responsibility of black capitalism and the question of 583 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,200 whether marginalized groups who gain wealth owe something to 584 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,760 those left behind. I think that's an interesting 585 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,600 commentary to project onto this movie. 586 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,200 I think it exists within this film. 587 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,320 And I think Spike, I think people are projecting a lot onto 588 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,840 Spike here. I think they're saying that 589 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,200 Spike is interrogating his own role in that debate through 590 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,320 David King as sort of like an avatar for himself, if that 591 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,760 makes sense, as this kind of legendary filmmaker in Hollywood 592 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,480 and, you know, his own relationship to his followers or 593 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,280 admirers of his legacy he's built. 594 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,160 But then Spike also sneaks in all these other ideas of being 595 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,520 critical of like, AI being soulless, which, yeah, cosigned, 596 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,880 but then also being sort of skeptical of cancel culture. 597 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,560 And I'm like, what? And then looking at like 598 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,880 meritocracy maybe being real. And I'm like, huh. 599 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,000 And then I I just think it's doing too much and it can't find 600 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,280 a coherent through line going to what you're saying, where it 601 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,960 becomes about. It becomes about a lot of 602 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,720 different ideas and then ultimately movie that feels flat 603 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,880 for me at the end because it kind of vilified characters who 604 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,840 are coming from less means. Yeah, which I found just 605 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:36,960 shocking. Yeah. 606 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,160 And I think, you know, to be clear to, I don't think either 607 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,160 of us are saying that Denzel's character, like, should be 608 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,920 looked at or treated like within the film or the audience as like 609 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,560 having the the same commentary or criticism as like a white 610 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,760 wealthy man, If, if that makes sense, Right. 611 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,240 Like, but at the same time, like, I think there's yeah, 612 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,600 there there's a lot of like weird things where it feels like 613 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,520 someone put in a lot of their own takes about like how the 614 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,400 youth just expects fame and they think they deserve like, money, 615 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,000 right? Like those kind of like strange 616 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,000 things about deserving, right, fame or wealth that are then 617 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,800 channeled through Denzel's character to A$AP Rocky, like, 618 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,000 and the idea that he does again, like we're playing in the world 619 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,440 we're playing in, right? This, this whole like landscape 620 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,440 of capitalism, again, it's this whole like metaphor. 621 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,520 So that's like the problem. Wasn't there a moment where like 622 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,160 young felon is shown walking into like the court and he and 623 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,800 they're like screaming young felon and he's like saying he 624 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,520 made it or something like that, Like he's become a celebrity or 625 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,240 he's like, no, now wasn't there a moment like that? 626 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,440 I know it just felt really reductive and overly simplified. 627 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,200 And it really felt like, and I mean this from somebody who was 628 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,760 a a massive fan of Spike Lee, and I don't not mean this in any 629 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,600 negative way. And it's also hard to like have 630 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,640 this conversation as like 2 white podcasters being like, 631 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,640 here's this legendary black artist who also made something 632 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,960 that feels kind of problematic. But it does feel like Spike 633 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,040 feels kind of like economically distanced from reality in this 634 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,520 movie. Like I and again, I don't know 635 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,480 if it's the screenplay or his vision thematically, but he 636 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,760 feels kind of like like he lost a little bit of the sauce of 637 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,520 like what people are going through today, if that makes 638 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,000 sense. It feels like somebody who is 639 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,720 sort of like rich and powerful made a movie about class and 640 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,480 that's why it feels a little bit complicated. 641 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,520 And I mean that from like a really well intended place. 642 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,800 And I guess I'm open for a conversation on that one. 643 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,280 So people let us know what you think about that in a 644 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,960 constructive way or like constructive feedback or 645 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,920 productive feedback rather. But I'm trying to have 646 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,240 constructive criticism here because it's kind of this is a 647 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,760 tough movie to discuss because so many critics are just like, 648 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,720 this is like one of the great remakes. 649 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,760 They're literally saying that. I've read many reviews that have 650 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,240 said that and listen to podcast about this and are saying that 651 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,800 this is like one of the great Spike Lee movies. 652 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,800 And I just, I think people are projecting so much of their 653 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,720 relationship of Spike Lee onto their relationship with this 654 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,160 film. I don't be reductive of 655 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,000 people's. Experiences. 656 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,360 But it does feel like that. I also think that like maybe 657 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,760 like you're saying, people read the original text differently. 658 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,679 I think it's so I usually like, I'm not as direct as to say like 659 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,560 they are misreading it. But I do think that people are 660 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,520 misreading the original text if they're saying like at the end, 661 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,719 you know, the person finds out that the kidnapper is just like 662 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,159 in insane or there's no reason it's the Joker commentary. 663 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,400 That's not what the movie's about. 664 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,320 And so like, if that's how you see it, then maybe we just like 665 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,760 disagree and are not honestly, I mean this this now sounds like 666 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,960 reductive, but like maybe don't see the world the same way or 667 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,080 have the same like lens towards class like. 668 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,600 Yeah, we could take that personal view on it, but you 669 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,920 could also just go back and listen to Kurosawa, who like had 670 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,840 to come out and he was criticized for being sympathetic 671 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,120 at all to the ransomer back in in post war, kind of like Japan 672 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,200 in the 1960s. And had to like take that 673 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,080 critical backlash and be like, well, I wasn't trying to be 674 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,720 forgiving of this person. But originally he was a little 675 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:12,160 bit more quote UN quote cartoonishly insane. 676 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,560 And we were like, we want to give him something that feels 677 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,920 more like justifies that. This is such a large kind of 678 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,040 commentary about like this structural classism that is so 679 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,320 clear in the architecture of like how major cities are built. 680 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,680 And he's also making a larger commentary about globalization 681 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,120 and capitalism now invading and infesting countries around the 682 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,280 world and, like, pressuring them to to, you know, sell products 683 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,880 with one another and become basically what America had 684 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,720 already become. And so he was making all these 685 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,920 larger commentaries, but he was really cautious about being too 686 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,840 sympathetic to that figure. So it's kind of ironic if you 687 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,400 might misread it and then be OK with his highest to lowest 688 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,720 interpretation because Kurosawa himself was like hoping people 689 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:53,920 would not miss out the point on the movie, which is that this 690 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,920 guy would have never kidnapped that person if equality, if 691 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,440 economic equality was more in the forefront of like Japan's 692 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,440 goals at that time, that place in time. 693 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,120 So. Yeah. 694 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,000 I mean, it's just though it's weird because of what we were 695 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,680 talking about, like with Inside Man, you know, being one of the 696 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,480 great heist movies and that I was talking about this too on 697 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,520 Dog Day Afternoon and kind. Of radical and it's class 698 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,040 commentary too. Yeah, that like we don't really, 699 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,200 you know, and that's why I'm excited for this genre to come 700 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,720 back like we were talking about at the beginning, because I 701 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:31,720 think like bank robbery movies or like heist movies in general 702 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,800 lend themselves to this one's a little bit more complicated. 703 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,560 But in terms of like bank robbery movies, they lend 704 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,880 themselves to this idea of like critiquing institutions through 705 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,480 the vehicle of like an action movie. 706 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,520 And that's interesting always to me. 707 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,360 But Inside Man in particular like takes that a step further 708 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,600 right where we have I won't spoil it for anyone who like 709 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,200 hasn't seen it, although I'm assuming if you're listening to 710 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,360 podcast, probably have that's fine. 711 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,720 You listen to our episode where we talk about it more. 712 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,000 But like Clive Owens character, right? 713 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,560 Robbing the bank for a very specific reason, I guess I'll 714 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,520 just say. Oh, I'll step on it. 715 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,000 Spike Lee's straight up like, yeah, the guy who owns a bank is 716 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,960 a Nazi like, and that's a big deal. 717 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,200 Like he's pushing against stereotypes of like, quote, UN 718 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,280 quote Jews owning banks. And like him speaking and giving 719 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,800 like a platform to Jewish communities who who have been 720 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,520 discriminated against in America and being like, actually the guy 721 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,320 who's a fucking Nazi owns wealth and power in New York City. 722 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,200 Like that's powerful. Like, that's a powerful. 723 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,640 And he's being protected because of his wealth and he's able to, 724 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,960 like, hide that because of his wealth. 725 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,400 Yeah, OK, so I I was just saying that just in case people hadn't 726 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,320 seen it, but. I'm fine, it come from me. 727 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,200 In the DNS it's like how many years later? 728 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,520 Literally 20 years. Old probably seen it and that's 729 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,440 OK because they tell you kind of like, well, I guess they don't 730 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,040 tell you early on, but that's. A spoiler it. 731 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,400 Doesn't matter, but anyway so like. 732 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,680 There's a big there is a big spoiler. 733 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,600 To have one of the best like heist movies made by Spike Lee 734 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,880 there and to also, you know, have like Spike Lee's long 735 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,600 standing history, like with his films looking at racism really 736 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,320 directly and having this like observant, you know, quality to 737 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,800 a lot of his movies where it feels like he is showing, you 738 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,120 know, the audience like here is what's happening. 739 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:22,200 You know, it's not like a moral film in terms of how we have 740 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,960 movies about racism. And obviously, like, you know, 741 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,560 we're in the United States and like Hollywood exists and 742 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,400 there's like all these benevolent white characters that 743 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,280 like solve racism and like, you know, the two hours that for the 744 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,840 runtime of the movie. But I feel, you know, I think 745 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,120 that he is like, yeah, it's actually not like complicated 746 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,400 here is like I'm putting racism in front of you to these like 747 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,440 white audiences who are coming to see the movie. 748 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:55,400 And so when you like are going to see a movie from a a film 749 00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:01,000 maker like Spike Lee, it is just jarring to see then how like he 750 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:06,640 has portrayed class before in terms of looking at like a a 751 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,400 character, you know, I'm I'm just thinking of do it, do the 752 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,960 right thing right now just because we're about to do it on 753 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,360 Patreon. But like this idea of like a 754 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,200 white character saying myth of meritocracy rhetoric, it's 755 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,960 really strange to see it coming out of like Denzel's, you know, 756 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,200 character in a movie that is like explicitly about. 757 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:30,560 Clocks. Yeah. 758 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,800 It made me think a lot about Clockers, which is an underrated 759 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:39,400 Spike Lee movie, and how there is a little bit of a pattern in 760 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,480 how Spike Lee frames class and culture. 761 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,200 Like some parts of Black life in his movies feels really deeply 762 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,160 humanized. That is not usually platformed 763 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,280 in mass media, especially in movies. 764 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:54,280 And sometimes he can reduce certain walks of black life for, 765 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,600 quote, UN quote, what's wrong in the community. 766 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,040 He does this inside man with the video game, with the little boys 767 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,200 playing the video game. And it's kind of a moralistic 768 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,480 speechifying going on where Clive Owens, like, I need to 769 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,440 talk to your dad about this. You shouldn't be playing this. 770 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,720 And it's like, I can understand what the intention is there, but 771 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:11,320 it also feels like very judgmental of a specific walk of 772 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,800 life that might come from a specific background, if that 773 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,640 makes sense. And in Clockers, that's a very 774 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,600 like empathetic film. But there is some somewhat of 775 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,240 that movie and some parts of of Spike's film. 776 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,520 Filmography that is like here's St. crime, here's drugs, even 777 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,800 hip hop culture. And I think he laces all those 778 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,480 things together with young felon in this movie in high to lowest 779 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,360 and he flattens those things. And then certain traditions like 780 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,640 jazz or religion or classical culture are shown with a lot 781 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,280 more warmth that I think there hasn't really been. 782 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,920 I haven't read 1. Actually I read 1 recently. 783 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,400 Bell hooks had a really good criticism of Spike Lee back in 784 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,280 the 90s of Do the Right Thing. That was about this very idea 785 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,160 and about how Spike doesn't get enough Flack from movie critics 786 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,400 who feel kind of like afraid to talk about them more kind of 787 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,880 like classic or sorry classist issue in some of his work that I 788 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,240 think is real, that I think exists, while he also has really 789 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:02,320 smart commentaries like the one we just addressed with with 790 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:03,880 Inside Man. So that's kind of like a 791 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,400 contradiction in his work. And some of the great film 792 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,480 makers of his peers also have those contradictions. 793 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,000 Martin. Scorsese I was going to say I 794 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,320 was talking a lot about that with Martin Scorsese and yeah, I 795 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,480 mean, I think I said I'm kind of going to go back on like what I 796 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,280 said a little bit in terms of like moralistic. 797 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,920 I there are sometimes like in both Spike Lee movies and Martin 798 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:30,200 Scorsese movies, there are like characters who are saying like, 799 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,640 here's the theme of the movie to another character. 800 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,880 And that sometimes does feel like moral point of view, like 801 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,720 inserted into movie. And sometimes it works and 802 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,040 sometimes it doesn't. And for both film makers, case, 803 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,560 and I'm saying, you know these two film makers 'cause they're 804 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:49,320 like super like famous and successful tours that I like 805 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,680 watching their movies, but you know, 2. 806 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,800 Of the most legendary New York City film makers. 807 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,040 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think we were just 808 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,280 watching like Sidney Lumet's movies though, too. 809 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,760 And those tend to be, and that's so it's just in my mind, but 810 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,480 those tend to be like more about institutions and characters 811 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,960 relationships, you know, and, and character studies, but 812 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:14,640 really in relationship to like institutional inequality and so. 813 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,040 Or state violence. Yeah. 814 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,200 And and so that's like also part of it. 815 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,400 I don't know, it's it's complicated, right? 816 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,880 But this movie is just, I think like a an interesting piece of 817 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,240 Spike Lee's filmography, not one that I love. 818 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,520 We we can talk a little bit about like the things that I do 819 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,920 love in terms of like how he, yeah, like incorporates the the 820 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,120 parade, right. Yeah. 821 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,680 Let's talk about the last 30 minutes, OK? 822 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,720 At least Like cuz the last 30-40 minutes, the movie really moves. 823 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,240 It turns into the thriller that you were kind of promised in the 824 00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:50,560 trailer. And I wasn't angry with the 825 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,560 melodrama in the first hour. I just didn't find it all that 826 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:53,600 interesting. Exactly. 827 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,520 There is one scene between Denzel, his character, and his 828 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,680 son where they have a very really interesting conversation 829 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,840 about masculinity and power that I found to be really compelling. 830 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,440 That's where I think Spike Lee really sings. 831 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,640 When he sits on those moments, they feel like you're watching 832 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,840 live theater, you know? And he's really great at that. 833 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,200 He's really good at staging in that way. 834 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,280 But in the last 30 minutes, there's a Puerto Rican parade 835 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,880 sequence that you're referring to that is like one of the most 836 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,640 electric moments of the year. Did I, I don't know if I read 837 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,960 this somewhere or if I heard like Spike Lee talk about it, 838 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,040 but wasn't that like almost a a wonder or they did it? 839 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,560 They did it a couple times like not a wonder but like they, they 840 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,600 did it from like start to finish in terms of like doing the 841 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:39,160 actual like song and I guess like you know the band playing 842 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,400 the song maybe like 4 times or something and used one of those. 843 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,720 Possibly. It felt like that. 844 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:50,040 It felt like it was like legitimately some of the best 845 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,080 action that Spike Lee's directed in his entire career. 846 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,040 So it felt very real. So that was a great action 847 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,000 sequence. There are also some like all 848 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,920 caps choices in the last 20 minutes where we get a really 849 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,280 risky semi surreal rap battle with Washington and ASAP, which 850 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,720 is kind of insane and ASAP was talking about in a great 851 00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:11,040 interview between him, Spike, and Denzel Washington. 852 00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,920 I think for GQ, I forget who it was, it was like 30 minutes and 853 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,320 Washington is kind of sitting there chilling. 854 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:17,800 He's like on his phone half the time. 855 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,520 But ASAP is just one of the most charismatic people I've heard in 856 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,640 pop culture across all mediums, where he is just like explaining 857 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,680 the significance of Washington to him and his life and how his 858 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,840 mom always compared him to Denzel Washington and how he met 859 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,840 Washington at his house because he's friends with John David 860 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,560 Washington and Spike Lee's listening. 861 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,320 He's like listening like how I'm listening to it. 862 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,640 He's like, really invest in the story. 863 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,920 And Washington. Denzel was like, we met before. 864 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,160 I don't even like he's so nonchalant about just being this 865 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,280 like very powerful figure in in in culture in general, but 866 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,000 especially obviously like in the black community. 867 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,840 And in ASAP was talking about how like Washington was rap 868 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,800 battling him on that day. And a lot of that wasn't 869 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,840 scripted. And Spike was saying how that 870 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,280 reminded him when Denzel went against Ray Allen and he got 871 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,280 gaming and scored a few points on it. 872 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,880 And Ray Allen was like, what the fuck, Spike? 873 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,440 Like, I'm going to have to actually play this guy. 874 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,040 So that was pretty cool. It was a little like cheesy, but 875 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,480 it was cool to see the rap battle. 876 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,440 We also get really fun music video flourishes with Spike's 877 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,640 famous the double Dolly shot of ASAP in a music video. 878 00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:24,440 There are some fun comedy gags throughout the movie. 879 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,320 There's some really great Celtics jokes, which is like a 880 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,120 Spike isn't at this point somebody literally looking into 881 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,440 the camera being like fuck you Celtics, which is awesome, or 882 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,840 fuck you Boston. There were some jokes about 883 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,200 State Farm, I guess not about State Farm, but from the State 884 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,080 Farm guy, and I want to be respectful to him. 885 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,200 At least let me get his name. Here, Mayhem himself. 886 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,480 Dean Winters as a detective Higgins who plays a cop with 887 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,960 prejudice who is, I guess, explicitly, you know, prejudice 888 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,680 and racist. But he is the guy from the State 889 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,200 Farm commercials. Yes, Yeah. 890 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,760 And I think they make 3 jokes about state. 891 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,720 Farm in this maybe at least twice. 892 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,080 Yeah. Yeah. 893 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,200 We looked at each other and we were like, is this something 894 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,600 that like Apple insisted on? Is this like an ad? 895 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,520 Yeah. Is this an ad for State Farm? 896 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,120 Was this like a behind the scenes deal of having this guy 897 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,600 in here? And I mean, it still is 898 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,520 possible. I don't know, definitely like 899 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,520 all speculation, but I, I did hear Spike Lee in like 1 900 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,160 interview say something like, if you're distracted by him, a 901 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,120 State Farm like, you know, the audience then is like the 902 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,360 problem cuz he's a great actor. And I actually disagree. 903 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,760 I think he's not a good actor and that's not totally his 904 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,520 fault. He is a interesting. 905 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,760 He's broken through the culture of having this like dry bit of 906 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,120 being mayhem in State Farm advertising. 907 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,560 Like, you know, they hit the jackpot in terms of like having 908 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,640 some sort of I iconic image and person or character, right? 909 00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,720 Be it's like a Jingle essentially, except it's a 910 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,840 person. And so one like, I just don't 911 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,920 think he's strong. And so then like when he his 912 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,400 being either like classist or racist, like towards Jeffrey 913 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:15,720 Wright's character, it comes off as like like a bit or something 914 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,680 because of how he delivers it and the audience's relationship 915 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,800 to him. And also he's not just like as a 916 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,840 dramatic actor, not very strong. And so it actually like really 917 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,200 weakened a lot of the moments where we're supposed to see a 918 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,480 contradiction, like, for example, you know, where we have 919 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:39,520 Denzel's like son who it were like in the kitchen. 920 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,320 And we are seeing the cops who are detectives, like ask, you 921 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,360 know, like, do you remember anything about your friend that 922 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,280 went missing who got kidnapped? And it's after like 5 minutes 923 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,320 and like, oh, he's tired. Like let him take a break. 924 00:47:54,680 --> 00:48:01,360 And in those moments #1 like in High low, in the first one, the 925 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,080 kids are really little. And I thought it was interesting 926 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,320 to like make the kids, teenagers here, especially around the 927 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,640 commentary of like treating black kids, right, as if they're 928 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,320 adults, right? And media. 929 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,520 And and so like, I think that was like an interesting 930 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,320 commentary. That's a good point. 931 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:24,160 But at the same time, in that specific scene, I was like, 932 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,880 well, he didn't go through like anything super traumatic besides 933 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,000 his like best friend missing. Like he could stick around for 934 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,360 maybe a couple more minutes just to have a lead on any kind of 935 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,880 clues of where the kidnapper like could have taken him or 936 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,920 anything he remembers because like it. 937 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,320 So that felt like very strange because I was like, wait, but I 938 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,680 think he is old enough in in this moment just to talk about 939 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,840 because like he he literally said he like left to go, I think 940 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,480 to another place to get food and something like that come back 941 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,000 right. But he like, I mean, obviously 942 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,960 it's a very stressful day, but the but the, the time, the the 943 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,000 clock is ticking in terms of like, you know, we know everyone 944 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,840 knows this from true crime movies that like the first 48 945 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,560 hours are critical like so anyway, but then when we have 946 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,960 like mayhem in those scenes, right, they take away the 947 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,520 emotional stakes is my larger point. 948 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,640 Yes, no, I I agree. I think I wanted more of 949 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,960 ultimately, I wanted more of David's, you know, David King's 950 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,640 characters is like kind of inner war. 951 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,000 You know, we see Washington shadowboxing alone. 952 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,600 We see him, you know, summoning the ghost of James Brown or Jimi 953 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,960 Hendrix or Aretha Franklin and these kind of surreal Spike 954 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,120 flourishes. It it's really theatrical, but 955 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,280 it works. And I just wish we could have 956 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,640 seen like David really feel the weight of wanting to protect his 957 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,400 empire. Instead, it's just kind of 958 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,240 confusing throughout the movie about what he's really trying to 959 00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:58,480 protect. Is he trying to protect his 960 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,360 image? Is he trying to protect his 961 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,080 image financial or economically, or his image to his own son or 962 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,240 his his wife, his, you know, image to his friend? 963 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,880 Or is he trying to protect, like does he feel the responsibility 964 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,760 of actually making it out and becoming this like very powerful 965 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,640 tycoon out of the black community? 966 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,240 Does he feel a responsibility to help in any way possible? 967 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,280 It's never really clear. And I just think the screenplay 968 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,280 really suffers and doesn't do Washington's character much 969 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,440 justice. So Denzel has to do so much the 970 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,000 legwork. So by the end of the movie, when 971 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,800 him and Jeffrey Wright are taking matters into their own 972 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,440 hands and they're driving on their way to like, young Felons 973 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,800 recording studio, it's fun and exciting, but it also feels 974 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,520 again, sort of weightless, you know, because even Jeffrey 975 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,760 Wright, who's giving a pretty good performance in this movie, 976 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,680 it's sort of feeling like he's playing the guy that he is 977 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,600 spoofing in American fiction. It isn't not a caricatury 978 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,480 character ultimately, because the writing's pretty poor. 979 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,680 Like, yes, he's an ex-con. Yes, he it seems to be a devout 980 00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,240 Muslim and like those are ways to characterize someone, but 981 00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:03,360 he's not deepened in any meaningful way. 982 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,400 And he's like, there are moments where he feels maybe like 983 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,240 resentful or like maybe more fully developed as a character 984 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:16,840 towards, you know, Denzel's like character, but mostly like he is 985 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,200 this like grateful worker of Denzel so. 986 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,200 Yeah, it feels uncomfortable. It feels weird. 987 00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,960 And I think it's it's strange. It's why it's been so strange to 988 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,800 read criticism on this movie because like, I'm all for 989 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,640 projecting a meta commentary on this film being like, let's all 990 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,120 go to the Spike Lee movie. We just said this with other 991 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,200 films too, like Materialist being fans of Celine Song or 992 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,800 Eddington with Ari Astor or Ryan Coogler with Sinners movies that 993 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,240 I think are all really admirable movies and execute at different 994 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:49,400 levels. And I think Sinners being the 995 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,760 most successful out of those three. 996 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,160 But ultimately all those movies have like issues. 997 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,080 But there's so much, there's so much emphasis right now in the 998 00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,080 critical world to be very binary in our reception to either be 999 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,520 like, this is overwhelmingly amazing and we all need to go 1000 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,480 see it, or this just doesn't work at all. 1001 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,200 And I'm not trying to sound like we can't just have a 1002 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,080 conversation anymore, but it does sort of feel like that with 1003 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,040 this movie in particular in our space. 1004 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,360 So it kind of feels like that. I feel bad throughout this 1005 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,720 episode and I felt bad writing a review for this movie weeks ago 1006 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,640 because I feel like if it looks as if we're punching down when 1007 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,600 the reality I'm just we're trying to be like constructive 1008 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:25,760 in our criticism, which is what we keep. 1009 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,200 Saying, I think, I mean, yeah, we've done that with all 1010 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,280 basically every movie this year. Like a lot of movies have been 1011 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,400 complicated about class like materialists. 1012 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,120 Materials is a good comp for this. 1013 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:40,600 Movie it is actually yeah so and and Eddington in in different 1014 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:47,080 ways that were more like pandemic situated more Internet 1015 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,120 situated. But yeah, like, I think that 1016 00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:54,960 we've had like similar interestingly issues with movies 1017 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,600 that have popped up this year because a lot of movies which we 1018 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,200 also asked for a lot like are kind of dealing with 1019 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,720 contemporary issues, but at the same time, like don't feel, I 1020 00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:11,720 guess like historically maybe completely thought out from the 1021 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:14,400 screen writing perspective. Yes, agreed. 1022 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,840 Anything else you want to add about the the plot of the movie? 1023 00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:19,720 We didn't really talk about the wife, but I saw some TikTok 1024 00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:22,000 reviews from regular people who were like, she's the worst 1025 00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,640 performance in the movie. And I thought that was rude. 1026 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,160 She didn't really get a lot to do. 1027 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,560 She kind of was. There is one tough moment where 1028 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,160 Washington, his character, finds out that his son's been 1029 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,120 kidnapped or seemingly kidnapped and he's outside and we can't 1030 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,000 hear young felon on the phone. And it's kind of a medium shot. 1031 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,560 And he comes in the house and we're kind of like David Fincher 1032 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,080 panning through the home and the wife finds out. 1033 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,160 And she doesn't have like the reaction you'd want. 1034 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,240 But it felt more like a director issue, like a the wrong cut to 1035 00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:51,520 use the wrong scene to use. It felt like a just a badly 1036 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,680 sequel, like kind of staged scene. 1037 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,040 I I think so too, yeah. It was like a it was a weird 1038 00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,680 reaction, I guess. Yeah, like I, I felt that too, 1039 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,480 of like, I didn't know if she would like would be more upset, 1040 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,480 but also she's in shock like, so that makes sense. 1041 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,760 But the way, yes, I think the way that it was staged was like 1042 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,800 strange and didn't serve her performance in that that moment. 1043 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,240 I want to note something because I like ASAP, you know, as an 1044 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:19,040 artist. I I think I like him more as 1045 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,600 like just kind of he's become this like public persona, 1046 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,640 obviously with his like relationship, Rihanna icon and 1047 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:30,240 they're both so fucking funny to listen to, but and I and I just 1048 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:32,320 love listening to ASAP talk about culture at large. 1049 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,560 Like he's so interesting. I like a lot of the production 1050 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,440 of his music. I like a lot of his beats just 1051 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,760 to be very straightforward in this song, Trunks the back out 1052 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,000 the trunk from the front to the back. 1053 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:53,320 The the lyrics are are so bad. They're so awful, but the the 1054 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,280 beat is insane. Do you know what I mean? 1055 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,240 Like the production of the music is fucking wild and really 1056 00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:02,400 elite, but the lyrics are so strange because they're 1057 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,720 superficial. I feel like it's purposeful 1058 00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:06,320 though. And I was going to ask you, do 1059 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,240 you think it's they made the production, the beat, they put 1060 00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:10,240 all the money into the production of the song because 1061 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:11,520 they knew it was going to be a mainstream hit. 1062 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,480 And it is. It's becoming like a a big hit. 1063 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,720 But the lyrics are literally about like the character talking 1064 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:20,600 about baby Mamas and like wanting to become a. 1065 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,600 Celebrity. I was going to say the the song 1066 00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,400 itself feels like similarly how I feel that A$AP Rocky character 1067 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,080 was treated in the movie. Which is that like the the 1068 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:33,560 lyrics are reductive, you know, and so is the portrayal of like 1069 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,280 A$AP Rocky character. Yeah, and I guess I do. 1070 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,280 You think it's more just like Spike's strange relationship to 1071 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,200 hip hop, I guess. Like, I don't know, that's all. 1072 00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:43,560 I guess that's a whole other conversation. 1073 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,960 Yeah, but that's not like, you know, in his filmography, like 1074 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:50,120 he has like he has both jazz and classical music and like his dad 1075 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,040 was a musician, right. But he also does have hip hop 1076 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,720 and like and do the right thing. And for for sure, I just think 1077 00:55:57,720 --> 00:56:00,720 I'm, I'm saying that I think going back to my clockers point, 1078 00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:04,080 I think sometimes Lee uplifts like certain black traditions 1079 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:05,920 while treating others with a little bit of suspicion. 1080 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,320 And I think that's where the class observations or like 1081 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,080 contradictions land. And that's why I was talking 1082 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,680 about the bell hooks point about Do the Right Thing, which to me 1083 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,800 is like a basically perfect movie, but this. 1084 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,720 Movie though, like in particular, it seems like very. 1085 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,720 And that's why I was saying that the music not only didn't work, 1086 00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:24,680 it was like too loud over the dialogue at the beginning with 1087 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,000 Jeffrey Wright and Denzel's like character, but it also then felt 1088 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,760 like a weird commentary on how it was being paired with wealth 1089 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,480 versus like A$AP Rocky character. 1090 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,960 And even though, yeah, the song is like good ultimately, yeah. 1091 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,680 Felt especially how like, you know, Denzel like kept saying 1092 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:44,600 like, why does she have to be a bitch? 1093 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:45,760 Why does she have to be a bitch? Yeah. 1094 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:52,000 That kind of idea of yeah, anyway, was like so embedded in 1095 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,160 the moralizing of like. It almost leaned satire, like I 1096 00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:56,640 thought it was going to like bamboozled on us. 1097 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,800 Like when it has the dancers? Yeah, I was like, are we going 1098 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,400 to? Behind Young Felony and I was 1099 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,320 like, is he doing something like kind of borderline satirical 1100 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:05,800 here? Like is he shifting the tone of 1101 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:06,960 the movie? That's interesting. 1102 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,280 I don't know. So that was a choice I'd like to 1103 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:11,480 hear from listeners on this movie. 1104 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,600 I feel like this has been a complicated conversation. 1105 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,360 We I think we tried our best. I wish we talked more about the 1106 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:17,920 humor because there were some funny jokes in this. 1107 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,200 Rick, I think Rick Fox is one of the coaches of the basketball 1108 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,760 team or the head coach, I guess. And the two of the cops that 1109 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,120 come and ask him about the ransom, they shoot it in a way 1110 00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,520 where even though Fox is like he towers over those cops because 1111 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,520 he's like obviously a former, well, I don't know obviously for 1112 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,640 you, but a former NBA player. So he's very tall. 1113 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,520 And I think the guy, one of the cops goes, you know, Larry Bird, 1114 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,680 what does he say? It's something funny like that. 1115 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,600 Well, that's like funny because it's Spike nodding to like micro 1116 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,800 aggressive, like racist comments that people from Boston make. 1117 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,440 That's why he has like fuck Boston attitude through laced 1118 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:50,960 throughout so many of his movies. 1119 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,960 That was a good moment there. So there's a lot of comedy in 1120 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,920 this film that we probably skipped over or some good like 1121 00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,920 dreamy cinematography that we probably should have gave more 1122 00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:01,600 time to. So yeah. 1123 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,120 I mean, I think I, it's weird 'cause like, just to close out, 1124 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,200 like I really enjoyed being in the world, right? 1125 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,600 Like, obviously I love the way that Spike Lee, like, constructs 1126 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,800 his films. And obviously I've liked all of 1127 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,600 the performances, so, and the chemistry between like all the, 1128 00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:23,800 the actors was great too. But again, it was just like, I 1129 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,200 mean, we've talked about it at length here now. 1130 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,200 So like, again, that was just, yeah, the the the themes, which 1131 00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:33,960 is why I'm interested in a movie ultimately like kind of fell 1132 00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,360 flat. I'm excited to talk about Spike 1133 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:37,840 the next two episodes on Patreon. 1134 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,000 I mean, this is a, this is one of the most legendary film 1135 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:45,200 makers of the last 50 years. And I think on the Do the Right 1136 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,920 Thing episode, we'll talk a lot about how he has, he's just like 1137 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,000 not been given the resources historically and consistently to 1138 00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:54,800 play in the Hollywood sandbox through his career. 1139 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,360 And he's had to really fight for capital, fight for resources, 1140 00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,360 spiteful for final cut, sometimes even funding projects 1141 00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:03,120 out of his own pocket or taking investments from friends just to 1142 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,120 tell stories he wants to tell on his own terms. 1143 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,920 He built 40 acres and a mule, stayed independent, elevated non 1144 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,640 white artist. And it's kind of like sacrificed 1145 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,960 a lot of mainstream awards and recognition by calling out 1146 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,640 racism in Hollywood and classism in Hollywood. 1147 00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:22,080 And so the irony of all of that and what we're going to be just 1148 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,320 discussing on Do the Right Thing and Inside Man is this movie is 1149 00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,320 the first film I've watched, I think, in Spike Lee's 1150 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,280 filmography. Honestly, that feels like, like, 1151 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,000 did I miss something along the way? 1152 00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,520 Did I not catch something totally? 1153 00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,240 OK, so extra credits. Oh yes, extra credits so. 1154 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:43,280 Can you go first because I still I I have mine but I'm thinking 1155 00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:44,760 if there's also like an additional 1. 1156 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,280 I'll give it to Matthew Libertique. 1157 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,240 I believe it's Libertique. I apologize if it's not his 1158 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,440 cinematography. Turning New York into that 1159 00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,800 living metaphor was exactly what I wanted. 1160 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,920 You know, like opening the movie like that, seeing the vertical 1161 00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,960 lines of the of the the buildings, the staircases, the 1162 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,920 subway tunnels. The subway it was. 1163 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:03,400 The subway is a great sequence too. 1164 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,360 The different stops too, yeah. Yeah, the story, the original 1165 01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,520 IP, like kind of the back to the novel from the United States to 1166 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:13,640 then the the Kurosawa movie, The obsession with who's on top and 1167 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,840 who's trapped below, creating the tension of how major cities 1168 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:21,240 are built in particular across the world and how Spike frames 1169 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,080 Washington against those skylines and against those glass 1170 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,000 towers. And we see the back of young 1171 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,400 felon looking up at all these things when he's on the phone 1172 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,680 and some kind of funny sequences when they're on the phone with 1173 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:33,720 each other and kind of dropping us into like, shadowy 1174 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,560 apartments. And then it's kind of subway 1175 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:36,760 cars. All of that. 1176 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,360 Like charting this kind of like descent into maybe the only 1177 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,440 reason why this much poverty exists is because Washington is 1178 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,040 so comfortable in his skyscraper. 1179 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,000 Or obviously, more accurately, the more historically dominant 1180 01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,160 class of wealthy, you know, moguls who are usually, like 1181 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,160 white men in those positions who have had all this power and have 1182 01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,200 not distributed it back or been forced to. 1183 01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,920 And so therefore you have like just a lot of storytelling, the 1184 01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:03,280 architecture that I really want to give a lot of love to and the 1185 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,560 way it shot. Yeah, my one of my extra credits 1186 01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,680 was going to be like how the the city was shot and like 1187 01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,920 especially the parade sequence with the money drop off 1188 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,920 sequence, like on the subway. And then also the opening, which 1189 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,080 I talked about before, but I thought it was a really like 1190 01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,600 interesting opening. It may be really excited for 1191 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,760 like the themes of the movie that we're going to be explored. 1192 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,800 But my other extra credit is going to go to A$AP Rocky 1193 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,840 performance. Like I just want to see him in 1194 01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,400 more. Yes, I think he he embodied 1195 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,720 somebody who like was able to confront somebody like Denzel 1196 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:40,120 Washington, which is pretty wild. 1197 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,720 Yeah, that was what was crazy. I think Spike asks him in that 1198 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:44,720 interview that I was talking about earlier, and I'll try, 1199 01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:46,720 I'll try to remember to link it. But just look up those three 1200 01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,640 names and you'll you'll see a 30 minute interview. 1201 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,000 And they're like in this white room with the window behind 1202 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,480 them. It's a really cool conversation. 1203 01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:57,360 And I think Spike asks ASAP, were you intimidated by Denzel? 1204 01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:58,800 And he was like, no, I was excited. 1205 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:00,520 He said something to that effect. 1206 01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,680 And I was really, I was giddy about that response because most 1207 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:06,920 people, you know, in any position of power would be like, 1208 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,400 yeah, it's Denzel Washington. He is really intimidating in 1209 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,000 real life because he just doesn't fuck around right. 1210 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,880 I mean, even if you think about like their the actual real life 1211 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,280 story of like how ASAP went to his house, right? 1212 01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:23,000 Yeah, I, I think that's so true. And you can feel it like in 1213 01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:24,760 their performance, which is pretty wild. 1214 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,520 Like he, he does not feel intimidated. 1215 01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:33,040 And it, it's really like wild to see because you're, you know, so 1216 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,840 interested in also like looking at Denzel's performance too, 1217 01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,480 like in this stage of his career, like I was talking about 1218 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,080 with thinking about like De Niro or write someone who's like this 1219 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:47,960 huge actor and has such a huge presence in in movies. 1220 01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:53,000 And so like you're so tuned into his performance and then you 1221 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,560 like finally meet right like A$AP Rocky character and it 1222 01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,040 really feels like a face off like which is is pretty wild 1223 01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,440 like that he can hold his own with such a an amazing actor 1224 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,200 like Denzel. Yeah, shout out, Rihanna. 1225 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,640 So, yeah, listeners, let us know what you think of highest to 1226 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,120 lowest. That's the extra credits of this 1227 01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:15,560 newest movie from Spike Lee. If you enjoyed this episode, 1228 01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,840 please don't forget to like and subscribe on Spotify, on Apple, 1229 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,160 wherever you get your podcast. Drop us a five star rating. 1230 01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,720 Leave us a friendly review on Apple. 1231 01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:27,720 If you want to help our show find more people, that really 1232 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:28,760 helps. So it goes a long way. 1233 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,360 If you can't join Patreon right now, we totally understand, even 1234 01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:32,600 as a free member. But if you want to leave a 1235 01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:35,640 review, five stars only, please. But let us know what you think 1236 01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,760 about the show and what we do over here. 1237 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,320 We are an independent podcast from Choice and our listeners 1238 01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,560 support us and your support means the world to us. 1239 01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,040 Don't forget about Patreon being a free member and getting access 1240 01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,600 to High and low. We'll be back on the main feed 1241 01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,440 pretty soon. What are we talking about next 1242 01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,600 is. It. 1243 01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:56,840 Going to be our Q&A. I guess so. 1244 01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,200 We got some questions from listeners. 1245 01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,640 We're going to have AQ and a episode out soon. 1246 01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,320 We got a Paul Thomas Anderson movie this month. 1247 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:02,960 That's so true. We're seeing the new Conjuring 1248 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,000 tomorrow night. Yeah, we've been rewatching 1249 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,640 Conjuring movies. I have a lot to say. 1250 01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,640 Me too. I got a lot to say about that 1251 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,240 fucking nun. The Conjuring, too. 1252 01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,200 I got a lot to say about how The Conjuring is really just 1253 01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,400 superhero movies for Christians. Like, they're basically Veggie 1254 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,040 Tales for adults in the horror genre, You know what I mean? 1255 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,960 And I mean that in the in the nicest way I can mean that. 1256 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,760 Does that make? Sense Lorraine's an icon, yeah. 1257 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,760 OK, they are. They're both Ed and Lorraine 1258 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,160 icons. A lot to say about them. 1259 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:32,520 All right, we'll be back. Peace.